Using Blogs and Social Media to Reach More People Online | Chris Martin

[Music] [Music] hey welcome to missional marketing's hey welcome to missional marketing's hey welcome to missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast my name church growth interviews podcast my name church growth interviews podcast my name is bart blair and i'm here with my is bart blair and i'm here with my is bart blair and i'm here with my friend friend friend jason hamrock hey jason hey bart jason hamrock hey jason hey bart jason hamrock hey jason hey bart how are you doing today i'm doing okay how are you doing today i'm doing okay how are you doing today i'm doing okay you know sometimes when you start you know sometimes when you start you know sometimes when you start podcasts like this there's always that podcasts like this there's always that podcasts like this there's always that awkward moment at the beginning where awkward moment at the beginning where awkward moment at the beginning where you're like your brain's moving faster you're like your brain's moving faster you're like your brain's moving faster than your mouth or your mouth is moving than your mouth or your mouth is moving than your mouth or your mouth is moving faster than your brain faster than your brain faster than your brain yeah that was that just was that just a yeah that was that just was that just a yeah that was that just was that just a moment that was just one of those moment that was just one of those moment that was just one of those moments moments moments and it's funny because there's one of and it's funny because there's one of and it's funny because there's one of those moments in this podcast that we're those moments in this podcast that we're those moments in this podcast that we're this interview that we're introducing this interview that we're introducing this interview that we're introducing today i did the same thing when we today i did the same thing when we today i did the same thing when we started it was like i started talking started it was like i started talking started it was like i started talking all of a sudden i was like i have no all of a sudden i was like i have no all of a sudden i was like i have no idea what i'm doing here idea what i'm doing here idea what i'm doing here i know what i'm doing but i don't know i know what i'm doing but i don't know i know what i'm doing but i don't know what i'm saying it what i'm saying it what i'm saying it i'm rarely at a loss for words but every i'm rarely at a loss for words but every i'm rarely at a loss for words but every once in a while it happens you know bart once in a while it happens you know bart once in a while it happens you know bart is a passer for all you listeners so for is a passer for all you listeners so for is a passer for all you listeners so for bart to be bart to be bart to be at a loss for words is a moment i mean at a loss for words is a moment i mean at a loss for words is a moment i mean that's something like that's something like that's something like we should mark that as a date because we should mark that as a date because we should mark that as a date because that doesn't happen around here that doesn't happen around here that doesn't happen around here market market on the calendar i tried market market on the calendar i tried market market on the calendar i tried not to be i tried not to be the first not to be i tried not to be the first not to be i tried not to be the first one to speak in meetings i had a leader one to speak in meetings i had a leader one to speak in meetings i had a leader i had a leader in my corporate life i had a leader in my corporate life i had a leader in my corporate life years ago i was in my 20s and um years ago i was in my 20s and um years ago i was in my 20s and um he was he was a guy that i really looked he was he was a guy that i really looked he was he was a guy that i really looked up to he was like three or four up to he was like three or four up to he was like three or four levels in the company above me and i had levels in the company above me and i had levels in the company above me and i had started to be included started to be included started to be included in some really important meetings in some really important meetings in some really important meetings organizationally organizationally organizationally and i remember him walking up to me his and i remember him walking up to me his and i remember him walking up to me his name was scott and i remember scott name was scott and i remember scott name was scott and i remember scott coming up to me after coming up to me after coming up to me after the meeting and saying bart i want to the meeting and saying bart i want to the meeting and saying bart i want to give you a little bit of helpful give you a little bit of helpful give you a little bit of helpful business advice business advice business advice you should choose to be the last one to

you should choose to be the last one to you should choose to be the last one to talk talk talk in a meeting instead of always needing in a meeting instead of always needing in a meeting instead of always needing to be the first one to talk in a meeting to be the first one to talk in a meeting to be the first one to talk in a meeting that was advice i never forgot the that was advice i never forgot the that was advice i never forgot the problem with that is that when i'm problem with that is that when i'm problem with that is that when i'm hosting a podcast i'm usually the first hosting a podcast i'm usually the first hosting a podcast i'm usually the first one that has to talk and i'm not always one that has to talk and i'm not always one that has to talk and i'm not always sure what i'm going to say sure what i'm going to say sure what i'm going to say so anyway that was really good advice so anyway that was really good advice so anyway that was really good advice and i've really tried to i've tried and i've really tried to i've tried and i've really tried to i've tried tried really hard to implement that tried really hard to implement that tried really hard to implement that advice so advice so advice so scott thanks for that advice you're scott thanks for that advice you're scott thanks for that advice you're probably not listening to this podcast probably not listening to this podcast probably not listening to this podcast but in case you are but in case you are but in case you are it's something i haven't forgotten it it's something i haven't forgotten it it's something i haven't forgotten it was 20 20 years ago more than 20 years was 20 20 years ago more than 20 years was 20 20 years ago more than 20 years ago ago ago it's good advice to be uh slow to speak it's good advice to be uh slow to speak it's good advice to be uh slow to speak and quick to listen that's just always and quick to listen that's just always and quick to listen that's just always my my my motto then that's in the bible or motto then that's in the bible or motto then that's in the bible or something isn't it something isn't it something isn't it something i think yeah yeah yeah yeah something i think yeah yeah yeah yeah something i think yeah yeah yeah yeah that's good stuff that's good stuff that's good stuff hey so jason um i want to remind all of hey so jason um i want to remind all of hey so jason um i want to remind all of our listeners our friends online to our listeners our friends online to our listeners our friends online to rate and review our podcast wherever you rate and review our podcast wherever you rate and review our podcast wherever you listen to it so if you're listening on listen to it so if you're listening on listen to it so if you're listening on apple podcasts or on google apple podcasts or on google apple podcasts or on google we haven't been on spotify but we've we haven't been on spotify but we've we haven't been on spotify but we've figured that out i think and i think figured that out i think and i think figured that out i think and i think pretty soon it's going to be on spotify pretty soon it's going to be on spotify pretty soon it's going to be on spotify so maybe if you're listening to this so maybe if you're listening to this so maybe if you're listening to this like a few weeks in the future perhaps like a few weeks in the future perhaps like a few weeks in the future perhaps you're listening on spotify you're listening on spotify you're listening on spotify if you watch the videos on youtube like if you watch the videos on youtube like if you watch the videos on youtube like and rev rate and review and rev rate and review and rev rate and review and share share this stuff there's some and share share this stuff there's some and share share this stuff there's some fantastic stuff fantastic stuff fantastic stuff great guests that we've had on um great guests that we've had on um great guests that we've had on um they're smarter than we are which is they're smarter than we are which is they're smarter than we are which is what makes it what makes it what makes it fun to be able to have some of these fun to be able to have some of these fun to be able to have some of these people on our podcast and people on our podcast and people on our podcast and today is no exception i'm going to today is no exception i'm going to today is no exception i'm going to introduce our guest in just a moment but introduce our guest in just a moment but introduce our guest in just a moment but i want to let you share a little bit i want to let you share a little bit i want to let you share a little bit about what your thoughts are on this

about what your thoughts are on this about what your thoughts are on this interview that we're going to be sharing interview that we're going to be sharing interview that we're going to be sharing today today today i i'm really excited for you to hear i i'm really excited for you to hear i i'm really excited for you to hear this church uh this church uh this church uh it's something that we talk about it's something that we talk about it's something that we talk about emotional marketing with all of the emotional marketing with all of the emotional marketing with all of the churches churches churches we work for we talk about this all the we work for we talk about this all the we work for we talk about this all the time time time and that is content content content and that is content content content and that is content content content content content content it is incredibly important for you to be it is incredibly important for you to be it is incredibly important for you to be creating content creating content creating content and then not only creating it leveraging and then not only creating it leveraging and then not only creating it leveraging it so it so it so here's half that battle like the first here's half that battle like the first here's half that battle like the first part of it creating the content part of it creating the content part of it creating the content you may not realize this church but you you may not realize this church but you you may not realize this church but you guys are creating content all the time guys are creating content all the time guys are creating content all the time you just need to know where to look for you just need to know where to look for you just need to know where to look for it right the best spot to look for that it right the best spot to look for that it right the best spot to look for that would be would be would be this past sunday your pastor preached this past sunday your pastor preached this past sunday your pastor preached phenomenal content the second part of phenomenal content the second part of phenomenal content the second part of that though is how to leverage that that though is how to leverage that that though is how to leverage that content and content and content and how how can you do that to get the the how how can you do that to get the the how how can you do that to get the the most squeeze out of that juice like what most squeeze out of that juice like what most squeeze out of that juice like what does that look like does that look like does that look like right uh today's podcast we're gonna right uh today's podcast we're gonna right uh today's podcast we're gonna dive deep into that dive deep into that dive deep into that so much so that we're going to go to so much so that we're going to go to so much so that we're going to go to part two because part two because part two because this is a phenomenal conversation i'm this is a phenomenal conversation i'm this is a phenomenal conversation i'm super passionate about it super passionate about it super passionate about it because there are so many people that because there are so many people that because there are so many people that need to be reached need to be reached need to be reached in google and you can be reaching them in google and you can be reaching them in google and you can be reaching them if you do these things if you do these things if you do these things the right way and so chris is going to the right way and so chris is going to the right way and so chris is going to go deep into that i'm really excited for go deep into that i'm really excited for go deep into that i'm really excited for you to hear about it you to hear about it you to hear about it bart won't you introduce him yes our bart won't you introduce him yes our bart won't you introduce him yes our guest guest guest is chris martin who is the content is chris martin who is the content is chris martin who is the content marketing editor marketing editor marketing editor for moody publishers um he's only been for moody publishers um he's only been for moody publishers um he's only been at moody for a relatively short time he at moody for a relatively short time he at moody for a relatively short time he was at lifeway for a number of years

was at lifeway for a number of years was at lifeway for a number of years prior prior prior to joining the team at moody he has to joining the team at moody he has to joining the team at moody he has worked with worked with worked with some phenomenal leaders like ed stetzer some phenomenal leaders like ed stetzer some phenomenal leaders like ed stetzer and and and eric geiger and yeah yeah and a number eric geiger and yeah yeah and a number eric geiger and yeah yeah and a number of other really of other really of other really really phenomenal leaders um his really phenomenal leaders um his really phenomenal leaders um his expertise in content marketing expertise in content marketing expertise in content marketing especially as it relates especially as it relates especially as it relates to blogging and social to blogging and social to blogging and social social media is is is really i've not social media is is is really i've not social media is is is really i've not talked to as many people who i felt as talked to as many people who i felt as talked to as many people who i felt as confident about confident about confident about taking his counsel as i did with chris taking his counsel as i did with chris taking his counsel as i did with chris like the guy really knows his stuff like the guy really knows his stuff like the guy really knows his stuff and so churches as you're listening to and so churches as you're listening to and so churches as you're listening to this this this you're going to have to really um think you're going to have to really um think you're going to have to really um think creatively creatively creatively to figure out how to implement some of to figure out how to implement some of to figure out how to implement some of the strategies and the things that he the strategies and the things that he the strategies and the things that he lays out here lays out here lays out here as it relates to sermon content and as it relates to sermon content and as it relates to sermon content and social media as churches we have to find social media as churches we have to find social media as churches we have to find ways ways ways to make those things work better to make those things work better to make those things work better together together together we tend to use social media in kind of we tend to use social media in kind of we tend to use social media in kind of this lane by itself this lane by itself this lane by itself and we don't always leverage it for and we don't always leverage it for and we don't always leverage it for maximum impact maximum impact maximum impact while we have this incredible content while we have this incredible content while we have this incredible content that our pastors are that our pastors are that our pastors are creating every single week and we're not creating every single week and we're not creating every single week and we're not leveraging that leveraging that leveraging that to the degree to which um to which we to the degree to which um to which we to the degree to which um to which we should and we could should and we could should and we could so um this cut this this conversation is so um this cut this this conversation is so um this cut this this conversation is rich with information rich with information rich with information i didn't get to half the questions that i didn't get to half the questions that i didn't get to half the questions that i really wanted to ask i really wanted to ask i really wanted to ask chris so we did talk about scheduling chris so we did talk about scheduling chris so we did talk about scheduling him again to come on for another episode him again to come on for another episode him again to come on for another episode so we can do another deep dive and talk so we can do another deep dive and talk so we can do another deep dive and talk about some things like email about some things like email about some things like email and some other things that i think will

and some other things that i think will and some other things that i think will be really valuable for our churches but be really valuable for our churches but be really valuable for our churches but uh uh uh chris has a podcast he's gonna share a chris has a podcast he's gonna share a chris has a podcast he's gonna share a little bit about that he's got a little bit about that he's got a little bit about that he's got a blog that he writes um i've been reading blog that he writes um i've been reading blog that he writes um i've been reading his content and listening to the podcast his content and listening to the podcast his content and listening to the podcast it's fantastic we'll link to that it's fantastic we'll link to that it's fantastic we'll link to that in the show notes here but um i think in the show notes here but um i think in the show notes here but um i think we've talked enough i'm no longer at a we've talked enough i'm no longer at a we've talked enough i'm no longer at a loss for words but i should probably loss for words but i should probably loss for words but i should probably stop stop stop so i'm going to transition now to our so i'm going to transition now to our so i'm going to transition now to our awesome awesome awesome interview with chris martin from moody interview with chris martin from moody interview with chris martin from moody publishers publishers publishers chris martin it is so glad to have you chris martin it is so glad to have you chris martin it is so glad to have you on the podcast today i've been looking on the podcast today i've been looking on the podcast today i've been looking forward to this uh for the last few forward to this uh for the last few forward to this uh for the last few weeks since we weeks since we weeks since we got it scheduled and i'm even more got it scheduled and i'm even more got it scheduled and i'm even more excited just excited just excited just after the last few minutes you sharing a after the last few minutes you sharing a after the last few minutes you sharing a little bit of your background that that little bit of your background that that little bit of your background that that we didn't even know coming into this so we didn't even know coming into this so we didn't even know coming into this so so thanks for hanging out with us today so thanks for hanging out with us today so thanks for hanging out with us today yeah sure man glad to be here chris um yeah sure man glad to be here chris um yeah sure man glad to be here chris um i'm going to guess well i'm i'm hopeful i'm going to guess well i'm i'm hopeful i'm going to guess well i'm i'm hopeful that people recognize your name not as that people recognize your name not as that people recognize your name not as the the the the lead singer of coldplay in the lead the lead singer of coldplay in the lead the lead singer of coldplay in the lead singer cold place named chris martin singer cold place named chris martin singer cold place named chris martin yeah yeah yeah people mistake you for him very often people mistake you for him very often people mistake you for him very often always always always always usually because of my stunning always usually because of my stunning always usually because of my stunning good looks before that before good looks before that before good looks before that before they even know my name so actually okay they even know my name so actually okay they even know my name so actually okay all right very good hey all right very good hey all right very good hey so we're just now getting to know you so we're just now getting to know you so we're just now getting to know you i'm sure that uh i'm sure that uh i'm sure that uh our our listeners would love to know our our listeners would love to know our our listeners would love to know more about you you have a very more about you you have a very more about you you have a very fascinating story so why don't you just fascinating story so why don't you just fascinating story so why don't you just start us off today by just sharing your start us off today by just sharing your start us off today by just sharing your story um and uh story um and uh story um and uh how you got to what you're doing today how you got to what you're doing today how you got to what you're doing today there's there's a lot of stuff in there there's there's a lot of stuff in there there's there's a lot of stuff in there so fill in the details so fill in the details so fill in the details yeah i'll try to do this as briefly as i yeah i'll try to do this as briefly as i yeah i'll try to do this as briefly as i can because it is a bit of a long story can because it is a bit of a long story can because it is a bit of a long story i grew up in fort wayne indiana i grew up in fort wayne indiana i grew up in fort wayne indiana which is in the far northeastern corner

which is in the far northeastern corner which is in the far northeastern corner of indiana about an hour south of of indiana about an hour south of of indiana about an hour south of michigan and 15 minutes west of ohio michigan and 15 minutes west of ohio michigan and 15 minutes west of ohio my wife and i both grew up there in in my wife and i both grew up there in in my wife and i both grew up there in in fort wayne we met in middle school fort wayne we met in middle school fort wayne we met in middle school uh were friends throughout high school uh were friends throughout high school uh were friends throughout high school both went to taylor university for both went to taylor university for both went to taylor university for undergraduate degrees uh which is a undergraduate degrees uh which is a undergraduate degrees uh which is a small christian liberal small christian liberal small christian liberal liberal arts school about an hour south liberal arts school about an hour south liberal arts school about an hour south of fort wayne of fort wayne of fort wayne similar to a wheaton or a union similar to a wheaton or a union similar to a wheaton or a union university or something like that if university or something like that if university or something like that if you're not aware of that kind of concept you're not aware of that kind of concept you're not aware of that kind of concept um um um we both attended taylor university i we both attended taylor university i we both attended taylor university i earned a biblical literature degree as earned a biblical literature degree as earned a biblical literature degree as my undergraduate degree my undergraduate degree my undergraduate degree and while i was there took a lot of and while i was there took a lot of and while i was there took a lot of communications classes communications classes communications classes um and it was originally an education um and it was originally an education um and it was originally an education major actually and major actually and major actually and and ended up doing some marketing work and ended up doing some marketing work and ended up doing some marketing work uh for a student who started a marketing uh for a student who started a marketing uh for a student who started a marketing company while he was a student at taylor company while he was a student at taylor company while he was a student at taylor because i could write and they needed because i could write and they needed because i could write and they needed some writing help for writing copy for some writing help for writing copy for some writing help for writing copy for blogs for blogs for blogs for seo purposes or whatever and having seo purposes or whatever and having seo purposes or whatever and having grown up grown up grown up you know in the 90s and early 2000s with you know in the 90s and early 2000s with you know in the 90s and early 2000s with a computer in my home my dad worked for a computer in my home my dad worked for a computer in my home my dad worked for ibm ibm ibm uh growing up so i was on the computer uh growing up so i was on the computer uh growing up so i was on the computer and tinkering around the internet far and tinkering around the internet far and tinkering around the internet far earlier then i'm gonna let my daughter earlier then i'm gonna let my daughter earlier then i'm gonna let my daughter be doing so i think but um be doing so i think but um be doing so i think but um so i grew up kind of very much as the uh so i grew up kind of very much as the uh so i grew up kind of very much as the uh typical digital native and typical digital native and typical digital native and interacting on the internet and learning interacting on the internet and learning interacting on the internet and learning social media in fact i got to taylor social media in fact i got to taylor social media in fact i got to taylor on a scholarship because i wrote a blog on a scholarship because i wrote a blog on a scholarship because i wrote a blog throughout high school that earned me a throughout high school that earned me a throughout high school that earned me a scholarship scholarship scholarship because they were kind of impressed by because they were kind of impressed by because they were kind of impressed by it i guess so i writing and online it i guess so i writing and online it i guess so i writing and online writing and online content creation was writing and online content creation was writing and online content creation was always kind of part of my story always kind of part of my story always kind of part of my story more as a hobby than anything and then more as a hobby than anything and then more as a hobby than anything and then when i was at taylor i started working when i was at taylor i started working when i was at taylor i started working for for this for for this for for this marketing company and doing a lot of marketing company and doing a lot of marketing company and doing a lot of copywriting and learning how to run copywriting and learning how to run copywriting and learning how to run social media for organizations

social media for organizations social media for organizations uh like professionally i'd done it for uh like professionally i'd done it for uh like professionally i'd done it for my own stuff but my own stuff but my own stuff but had never done it for an organization so had never done it for an organization so had never done it for an organization so i was doing some stuff for ralph lauren i was doing some stuff for ralph lauren i was doing some stuff for ralph lauren and fellows moving boxes and just these and fellows moving boxes and just these and fellows moving boxes and just these random companies who probably didn't random companies who probably didn't random companies who probably didn't know they were hiring know they were hiring know they were hiring college students but i was making great college students but i was making great college students but i was making great money from my dorm room and it was money from my dorm room and it was money from my dorm room and it was easier than easier than easier than you know working at the local cafeteria you know working at the local cafeteria you know working at the local cafeteria or mcdonald's or something like that so or mcdonald's or something like that so or mcdonald's or something like that so um i did that all through college when um i did that all through college when um i did that all through college when my wife and i graduated my wife and i graduated my wife and i graduated we got married two weeks after we got married two weeks after we got married two weeks after graduation and we were looking for a graduation and we were looking for a graduation and we were looking for a place for me to go to seminary and for place for me to go to seminary and for place for me to go to seminary and for us to work and you know start our us to work and you know start our us to work and you know start our careers off um careers off um careers off um i found that they were looking for i found that they were looking for i found that they were looking for someone to help with social media someone to help with social media someone to help with social media lifeway christian resources which i lifeway christian resources which i lifeway christian resources which i never really heard of only never really heard of only never really heard of only vaguely in passing is like they ran some vaguely in passing is like they ran some vaguely in passing is like they ran some bookstores at conferences i had been to bookstores at conferences i had been to bookstores at conferences i had been to but i didn't grow up around any lifeway but i didn't grow up around any lifeway but i didn't grow up around any lifeway bookstores or anything like that bookstores or anything like that bookstores or anything like that and so um i saw that uh ed stetzer who and so um i saw that uh ed stetzer who and so um i saw that uh ed stetzer who was a was a was a writer and thinker that i had read his writer and thinker that i had read his writer and thinker that i had read his blog all through college blog all through college blog all through college it was hiring someone to run his social it was hiring someone to run his social it was hiring someone to run his social media and i was like well media and i was like well media and i was like well looking at the job description i i can looking at the job description i i can looking at the job description i i can meet the requirements on paper they're meet the requirements on paper they're meet the requirements on paper they're probably not looking for a 22 year old probably not looking for a 22 year old probably not looking for a 22 year old kid right out of college but kid right out of college but kid right out of college but hey uh we're not finding any great other hey uh we're not finding any great other hey uh we're not finding any great other job prospects my wife and i were job prospects my wife and i were job prospects my wife and i were actually actually actually living in a uh camper at a christian living in a uh camper at a christian living in a uh camper at a christian campground campground campground for the first three months of our for the first three months of our for the first three months of our marriage in michigan where a bunch of marriage in michigan where a bunch of marriage in michigan where a bunch of our friends were working and they were our friends were working and they were our friends were working and they were just kind of giving us this just kind of giving us this just kind of giving us this camper we had none of our wedding gifts camper we had none of our wedding gifts camper we had none of our wedding gifts you know none of that we were just you know none of that we were just you know none of that we were just living in this camper on a christian living in this camper on a christian living in this camper on a christian campground for the summer while we tried campground for the summer while we tried campground for the summer while we tried to figure out where we were going in the to figure out where we were going in the to figure out where we were going in the fall fall fall and i was like well we haven't had and i was like well we haven't had and i was like well we haven't had really great job prospects in louisville really great job prospects in louisville really great job prospects in louisville or chicago so or chicago so or chicago so well i'll just put my my resume in at

well i'll just put my my resume in at well i'll just put my my resume in at this place and they're probably not this place and they're probably not this place and they're probably not going to call me back i didn't even tell going to call me back i didn't even tell going to call me back i didn't even tell my wife because i was so my wife because i was so my wife because i was so it was such a long shot long story short it was such a long shot long story short it was such a long shot long story short i probably should have told my wife i probably should have told my wife i probably should have told my wife because they got back to me right away because they got back to me right away because they got back to me right away and said hey we really want to talk and said hey we really want to talk and said hey we really want to talk and i eventually made it to lifeway and i eventually made it to lifeway and i eventually made it to lifeway running running edsteads or social media running running edsteads or social media running running edsteads or social media and helping edit blogs and all that kind and helping edit blogs and all that kind and helping edit blogs and all that kind of stuff so of stuff so of stuff so that was my first job at lifeway that that was my first job at lifeway that that was my first job at lifeway that brought us to nashville which i'd never brought us to nashville which i'd never brought us to nashville which i'd never been to before before i interviewed at been to before before i interviewed at been to before before i interviewed at lifeway we moved to nashville in 2013 lifeway we moved to nashville in 2013 lifeway we moved to nashville in 2013 i worked until about 2016 for ed when he i worked until about 2016 for ed when he i worked until about 2016 for ed when he went off to wheaton college to do what went off to wheaton college to do what went off to wheaton college to do what he's doing there now he's doing there now he's doing there now and when i was there i helped build uh and when i was there i helped build uh and when i was there i helped build uh the blog and social media platform of the blog and social media platform of the blog and social media platform of eric geiger who's a pastor in california eric geiger who's a pastor in california eric geiger who's a pastor in california now and now and now and he was uh just a vice president lifeway he was uh just a vice president lifeway he was uh just a vice president lifeway at the time kind of overseeing all of at the time kind of overseeing all of at the time kind of overseeing all of their books and bible their books and bible their books and bible studies really the the main portion of studies really the the main portion of studies really the the main portion of lifeways business is what eric was lifeways business is what eric was lifeways business is what eric was overseeing and overseeing and overseeing and he wrote a lot on christian leadership he wrote a lot on christian leadership he wrote a lot on christian leadership in the business world and the local in the business world and the local in the business world and the local church in the home church in the home church in the home and so my friend trevin wax and i we and so my friend trevin wax and i we and so my friend trevin wax and i we coached eric on how to coached eric on how to coached eric on how to be a more efficient content creator on be a more efficient content creator on be a more efficient content creator on the internet how to create the internet how to create the internet how to create better blog content in more in a shorter better blog content in more in a shorter better blog content in more in a shorter period of time period of time period of time and then how to promote that effectively and then how to promote that effectively and then how to promote that effectively online and we really online and we really online and we really helped him kind of have an explosion of helped him kind of have an explosion of helped him kind of have an explosion of content like you went from writing one content like you went from writing one content like you went from writing one piece a week to five and piece a week to five and piece a week to five and went from getting 15 000 page views a went from getting 15 000 page views a went from getting 15 000 page views a month to about month to about month to about 70 000 page views a month and they said 70 000 page views a month and they said 70 000 page views a month and they said hey you know stetson is leaving hey you know stetson is leaving hey you know stetson is leaving you might go past her or if we can you might go past her or if we can you might go past her or if we can convince you maybe you can stay here and convince you maybe you can stay here and convince you maybe you can stay here and and coach authors on how to develop and coach authors on how to develop and coach authors on how to develop their online content in the same way their online content in the same way their online content in the same way you've helped eric and i said man that you've helped eric and i said man that you've helped eric and i said man that sounds great sounds great sounds great and so i stuck around at lifeway from uh

and so i stuck around at lifeway from uh and so i stuck around at lifeway from uh starting in 2016 after ed moved on starting in 2016 after ed moved on starting in 2016 after ed moved on and i was coaching up to 20 to 24 and i was coaching up to 20 to 24 and i was coaching up to 20 to 24 authors at any given time on how to authors at any given time on how to authors at any given time on how to develop a relationship with develop a relationship with develop a relationship with their readers in between book launches their readers in between book launches their readers in between book launches or events and things like that because a or events and things like that because a or events and things like that because a lot of authors lot of authors lot of authors are good at promoting their books or are good at promoting their books or are good at promoting their books or promoting their events often because promoting their events often because promoting their events often because marketing people who work for the marketing people who work for the marketing people who work for the publisher that they're working with are publisher that they're working with are publisher that they're working with are helping them helping them helping them but a lot of authors to their credit but a lot of authors to their credit but a lot of authors to their credit frankly don't spend a lot of time on frankly don't spend a lot of time on frankly don't spend a lot of time on social media in between book launches social media in between book launches social media in between book launches because they're busy writing or speaking because they're busy writing or speaking because they're busy writing or speaking or just living life or just living life or just living life and so my job was to kind of help them and so my job was to kind of help them and so my job was to kind of help them create create create helpful online content in between their helpful online content in between their helpful online content in between their product launches or their events so that product launches or their events so that product launches or their events so that they would maintain a relationship with they would maintain a relationship with they would maintain a relationship with their readers their readers their readers when they weren't launching a product when they weren't launching a product when they weren't launching a product which would not only help them launch which would not only help them launch which would not only help them launch their next product but what their next product but what their next product but what would help them deepen their would help them deepen their would help them deepen their relationship to their readers and do relationship to their readers and do relationship to their readers and do ministry online because i think it was ministry online because i think it was ministry online because i think it was kind of kind of kind of at the time i was i was saying i think at the time i was i was saying i think at the time i was i was saying i think it's kind of incumbent upon you with the it's kind of incumbent upon you with the it's kind of incumbent upon you with the gifts you have to steward those gifts in gifts you have to steward those gifts in gifts you have to steward those gifts in the digital space i don't think you get the digital space i don't think you get the digital space i don't think you get to just ignore that to just ignore that to just ignore that and so i really enjoyed that job i could and so i really enjoyed that job i could and so i really enjoyed that job i could have done that job for the rest of my have done that job for the rest of my have done that job for the rest of my life uh it's my favorite job i've ever life uh it's my favorite job i've ever life uh it's my favorite job i've ever had i mean i really like the one i'm had i mean i really like the one i'm had i mean i really like the one i'm doing now but doing now but doing now but it was so fun i just got to work with it was so fun i just got to work with it was so fun i just got to work with authors and and it was like authors and and it was like authors and and it was like i loved it because they had it they all i loved it because they had it they all i loved it because they had it they all had tremendous gifts had tremendous gifts had tremendous gifts that they could exercise offline very that they could exercise offline very that they could exercise offline very effectively effectively effectively but when it came to exercising them but when it came to exercising them but when it came to exercising them online they felt a little online they felt a little online they felt a little uh like their hands were tied behind

uh like their hands were tied behind uh like their hands were tied behind their back like they didn't really know their back like they didn't really know their back like they didn't really know how to how do my gifts of writing a book how to how do my gifts of writing a book how to how do my gifts of writing a book or writing a bible or writing a bible or writing a bible how does that translate to twitter or how does that translate to twitter or how does that translate to twitter or instagram or podcasting instagram or podcasting instagram or podcasting and i i i know that part and so i got to and i i i know that part and so i got to and i i i know that part and so i got to use the gifts god's given me and use the gifts god's given me and use the gifts god's given me and understanding how online content understanding how online content understanding how online content strategy works strategy works strategy works and make the most of the gifts god has and make the most of the gifts god has and make the most of the gifts god has given them given them given them in their offline you know bible study or in their offline you know bible study or in their offline you know bible study or book writing or speaking engagements book writing or speaking engagements book writing or speaking engagements that kind of stuff that kind of stuff that kind of stuff so i loved it it was really really fun i so i loved it it was really really fun i so i loved it it was really really fun i did that for a couple years did that for a couple years did that for a couple years and then um i did a couple things and then um i did a couple things and then um i did a couple things simultaneously i'll just summarize my simultaneously i'll just summarize my simultaneously i'll just summarize my last two or three years at lifeway last two or three years at lifeway last two or three years at lifeway um i was overseeing all of social media um i was overseeing all of social media um i was overseeing all of social media strategy so eventually they said hey strategy so eventually they said hey strategy so eventually they said hey what you're doing with authors is really what you're doing with authors is really what you're doing with authors is really good good good but we've realized that we need some but we've realized that we need some but we've realized that we need some more social media strategy and online more social media strategy and online more social media strategy and online content strategy content strategy content strategy cohesion across our organization lifeway cohesion across our organization lifeway cohesion across our organization lifeway at the time was a very large at the time was a very large at the time was a very large organization with organization with organization with still all of their bookstores open 170 still all of their bookstores open 170 still all of their bookstores open 170 bookstores etc bookstores etc bookstores etc they said we we could use some better they said we we could use some better they said we we could use some better kind of synergy in our digital marketing kind of synergy in our digital marketing kind of synergy in our digital marketing and social media and social media and social media online content across the organization online content across the organization online content across the organization would you kind of help be that linchpin would you kind of help be that linchpin would you kind of help be that linchpin to bring all of our various and to bring all of our various and to bring all of our various and and different uh manifestations of and different uh manifestations of and different uh manifestations of online content kind of help us online content kind of help us online content kind of help us all start running in the same direction all start running in the same direction all start running in the same direction and so i spent the last three years or and so i spent the last three years or and so i spent the last three years or so that i was at lifeway from roughly so that i was at lifeway from roughly so that i was at lifeway from roughly 2017 2018 to 2020 in september when i 2017 2018 to 2020 in september when i 2017 2018 to 2020 in september when i left left left uh leading online content strategy uh leading online content strategy uh leading online content strategy specifically in the area of like social specifically in the area of like social specifically in the area of like social media and like blogger or long-form media and like blogger or long-form media and like blogger or long-form content so

content so content so i oversaw about 60 social media managers i oversaw about 60 social media managers i oversaw about 60 social media managers they were marketing specialists who were they were marketing specialists who were they were marketing specialists who were doing a lot more than just social media doing a lot more than just social media doing a lot more than just social media management management management but i would meet with all 60 of them in but i would meet with all 60 of them in but i would meet with all 60 of them in a given month a given month a given month i had many many meetings uh and would i had many many meetings uh and would i had many many meetings uh and would meet with them meet with them meet with them and try to coach them on how to do and try to coach them on how to do and try to coach them on how to do social media more effectively social media more effectively social media more effectively because some of them were good at it and because some of them were good at it and because some of them were good at it and some of them they would admit some of them they would admit some of them they would admit uh it was not second nature to them that uh it was not second nature to them that uh it was not second nature to them that was the hardest part of their job you was the hardest part of their job you was the hardest part of their job you know maybe they were good at email know maybe they were good at email know maybe they were good at email marketing but they weren't very good at marketing but they weren't very good at marketing but they weren't very good at social and digital content social and digital content social and digital content uh beyond their emails or or vice versa uh beyond their emails or or vice versa uh beyond their emails or or vice versa and so i would i would meet with and and so i would i would meet with and and so i would i would meet with and lead about 60 social media managers who lead about 60 social media managers who lead about 60 social media managers who oversaw oversaw oversaw roughly 200 social media accounts um and roughly 200 social media accounts um and roughly 200 social media accounts um and part of my job was to uh one of the part of my job was to uh one of the part of my job was to uh one of the first things i did is said we need to first things i did is said we need to first things i did is said we need to reduce the number of accounts we have reduce the number of accounts we have reduce the number of accounts we have going on here so going on here so going on here so that's the last thing i did at lifeway that's the last thing i did at lifeway that's the last thing i did at lifeway in september of 2020 i decided to in september of 2020 i decided to in september of 2020 i decided to leave lifeway and join moody publishers leave lifeway and join moody publishers leave lifeway and join moody publishers moody publishers is a christian moody publishers is a christian moody publishers is a christian publisher like crossway like publisher like crossway like publisher like crossway like lifeway or b h is the book publisher of lifeway or b h is the book publisher of lifeway or b h is the book publisher of lifeway uh based out of chicago lifeway uh based out of chicago lifeway uh based out of chicago obviously associated with moody bible obviously associated with moody bible obviously associated with moody bible institute which is a large institute which is a large institute which is a large among the larger christian bible among the larger christian bible among the larger christian bible colleges it's not a christian liberal colleges it's not a christian liberal colleges it's not a christian liberal arts school like taylor it's arts school like taylor it's arts school like taylor it's more focused on biblical education more focused on biblical education more focused on biblical education missions etc missions etc missions etc so moody bible institute is the larger so moody bible institute is the larger so moody bible institute is the larger organization within moody bible organization within moody bible organization within moody bible institute you have the institute which institute you have the institute which institute you have the institute which is the school is the school is the school you have moody radio which is the you have moody radio which is the you have moody radio which is the largest non-music largest non-music largest non-music christian radio station and network of christian radio station and network of christian radio station and network of stations in the country stations in the country stations in the country and then uh moody publishers which is and then uh moody publishers which is and then uh moody publishers which is book publisher

book publisher book publisher um they publish a number of great um they publish a number of great um they publish a number of great authors uh truly nubelle um authors uh truly nubelle um authors uh truly nubelle um uh gary chapman's five love languages uh gary chapman's five love languages uh gary chapman's five love languages is published through new publishers and is published through new publishers and is published through new publishers and so a lot of a lot of great so a lot of a lot of great so a lot of a lot of great um books coming out of moody publishers um books coming out of moody publishers um books coming out of moody publishers and so i joined them in a content and so i joined them in a content and so i joined them in a content marketing editor marketing editor marketing editor role which is a role they also create role which is a role they also create role which is a role they also create i've worked in a lot of jobs over time i've worked in a lot of jobs over time i've worked in a lot of jobs over time that were created for me which i don't that were created for me which i don't that were created for me which i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad know if that's a good thing or a bad know if that's a good thing or a bad thing thing thing uh i was interviewing for another uh i was interviewing for another uh i was interviewing for another position at moody publishers and they position at moody publishers and they position at moody publishers and they said you're really great for the said you're really great for the said you're really great for the position you've interviewed for position you've interviewed for position you've interviewed for but what about this position we've been but what about this position we've been but what about this position we've been wanting to create but haven't been able wanting to create but haven't been able wanting to create but haven't been able to find the best person for and i said to find the best person for and i said to find the best person for and i said you know that sounds really fun you know that sounds really fun you know that sounds really fun and so i hopped into what they call and so i hopped into what they call and so i hopped into what they call content marketing editor content marketing editor content marketing editor so i sit on the publishing team at moody so i sit on the publishing team at moody so i sit on the publishing team at moody and help and help and help uh make the decisions to for what we're uh make the decisions to for what we're uh make the decisions to for what we're going to publish or not going to publish or not going to publish or not publish on the pub board which is publish on the pub board which is publish on the pub board which is traditionally what is called pub board traditionally what is called pub board traditionally what is called pub board at these publishers so i sit on that at these publishers so i sit on that at these publishers so i sit on that team and then also team and then also team and then also i uh help with mark content marketing or i uh help with mark content marketing or i uh help with mark content marketing or online online online digital content efforts at moody they digital content efforts at moody they digital content efforts at moody they have an entire team have an entire team have an entire team on the marketing team proper uh that on the marketing team proper uh that on the marketing team proper uh that does that but does that but does that but i sit on the publishing team with like i sit on the publishing team with like i sit on the publishing team with like one foot in publishing one foot in publishing one foot in publishing and one foot in marketing which is and one foot in marketing which is and one foot in marketing which is exactly kind of how my brain works which exactly kind of how my brain works which exactly kind of how my brain works which is why i love is why i love is why i love this role that i get to do and the this role that i get to do and the this role that i get to do and the biggest project i'm working on which biggest project i'm working on which biggest project i'm working on which i'll kind of tease here with you guys i'll kind of tease here with you guys i'll kind of tease here with you guys is um i'm working on this website is um i'm working on this website is um i'm working on this website i'm not going to reveal the name yet i'm not going to reveal the name yet i'm not going to reveal the name yet because that would be letting the cat because that would be letting the cat because that would be letting the cat out of the bag but out of the bag but out of the bag but later this year in september hopefully later this year in september hopefully later this year in september hopefully i'm working with a really great web

i'm working with a really great web i'm working with a really great web design design design agency who's designed a number of the agency who's designed a number of the agency who's designed a number of the best christian websites around best christian websites around best christian websites around to create a really rich resource library to create a really rich resource library to create a really rich resource library of content that will of content that will of content that will encourage biblical literacy for people encourage biblical literacy for people encourage biblical literacy for people at at at all stages of their walks with christ so all stages of their walks with christ so all stages of their walks with christ so i uh if you were to google something i uh if you were to google something i uh if you were to google something today like why did jesus have to die today like why did jesus have to die today like why did jesus have to die or what does the bible say about or what does the bible say about or what does the bible say about marriage or you know some marriage or you know some marriage or you know some a lot of these common questions that a lot of these common questions that a lot of these common questions that people google whether they're people google whether they're people google whether they're non-christians or their pastors non-christians or their pastors non-christians or their pastors a lot of people google these sorts of a lot of people google these sorts of a lot of people google these sorts of things many of the websites that will things many of the websites that will things many of the websites that will come up when you come up when you come up when you google such things maybe google such things maybe google such things maybe they are trustworthy but you've never they are trustworthy but you've never they are trustworthy but you've never heard of this organization or this heard of this organization or this heard of this organization or this website like who runs bible study tools website like who runs bible study tools website like who runs bible study tools or got questions or got questions or got questions or so many of these common sites that or so many of these common sites that or so many of these common sites that pop up wikipedia wikipedia pop up wikipedia wikipedia pop up wikipedia wikipedia right right wikipedia is almost always right right wikipedia is almost always right right wikipedia is almost always on the top on the top on the top exactly and i genuinely think google is exactly and i genuinely think google is exactly and i genuinely think google is one of the one of the one of the most vital mission fields we have most vital mission fields we have most vital mission fields we have available to us today available to us today available to us today that's right and so uh given the mission that's right and so uh given the mission that's right and so uh given the mission of moody bible institute of moody bible institute of moody bible institute uh to encourage biblical literacy among uh to encourage biblical literacy among uh to encourage biblical literacy among students and among the world through the students and among the world through the students and among the world through the radio programs and radio programs and radio programs and through publishing we decided let's through publishing we decided let's through publishing we decided let's create a content create a content create a content hub on the internet that and look here hub on the internet that and look here hub on the internet that and look here for pos for good and for ill for for for pos for good and for ill for for for pos for good and for ill for for positive and negative positive and negative positive and negative everything i do i i'm bent on world everything i do i i'm bent on world everything i do i i'm bent on world domination okay domination okay domination okay so um that's good and bad but i mean i'm so um that's good and bad but i mean i'm so um that's good and bad but i mean i'm like insatiably competitive like with like insatiably competitive like with like insatiably competitive like with myself like i set myself like i set myself like i set really hard goals and i try to meet them

really hard goals and i try to meet them really hard goals and i try to meet them with myself in all things whether it's with myself in all things whether it's with myself in all things whether it's like like like fitness or or reading or writing or fitness or or reading or writing or fitness or or reading or writing or projects like this projects like this projects like this and so like if you i want the site we're and so like if you i want the site we're and so like if you i want the site we're creating to be the top result in google creating to be the top result in google creating to be the top result in google for some of the most common questions for some of the most common questions for some of the most common questions people are googling people are googling people are googling regarding christianity in the scriptures regarding christianity in the scriptures regarding christianity in the scriptures you know uh you know uh you know uh sometime in my in the rest of my career sometime in my in the rest of my career sometime in my in the rest of my career i plan to do this for the rest of my i plan to do this for the rest of my i plan to do this for the rest of my life who knows if that will happen or life who knows if that will happen or life who knows if that will happen or not not not but i hope that when we launch this site but i hope that when we launch this site but i hope that when we launch this site and over time we can create a resource and over time we can create a resource and over time we can create a resource that whether you're a non-christian that whether you're a non-christian that whether you're a non-christian who's maybe trying to look for something who's maybe trying to look for something who's maybe trying to look for something that's that's that's disproving christianity or you're a disproving christianity or you're a disproving christianity or you're a pastor just looking for some resources pastor just looking for some resources pastor just looking for some resources to kind of accompany your sermon on to kind of accompany your sermon on to kind of accompany your sermon on sunday sunday sunday that we can create a resource that's that we can create a resource that's that we can create a resource that's devoted to help people devoted to help people devoted to help people learn about the bible engage with the learn about the bible engage with the learn about the bible engage with the bible and love the bible bible and love the bible bible and love the bible more and the god of the bible more and the god of the bible more and the god of the bible specifically and so that's going to kind specifically and so that's going to kind specifically and so that's going to kind of this of this of this promise i want to double click on that promise i want to double click on that promise i want to double click on that for just a second for just a second for just a second it's you you bring up an interesting it's you you bring up an interesting it's you you bring up an interesting point the conversations that jason and i point the conversations that jason and i point the conversations that jason and i have with churches have with churches have with churches on a pretty regular basis is google who on a pretty regular basis is google who on a pretty regular basis is google who is jesus is jesus is jesus and see what websites come up uh and and see what websites come up uh and and see what websites come up uh and and obviously you're gonna you're you're and obviously you're gonna you're you're and obviously you're gonna you're you're eventually going to eventually going to eventually going to have world domination on that space but have world domination on that space but have world domination on that space but in the meantime until you get there in the meantime until you get there in the meantime until you get there jason and i are trying to get churches jason and i are trying to get churches jason and i are trying to get churches to work on creating to work on creating to work on creating more and better content for their more and better content for their more and better content for their websites websites websites seo rich content because we'd love to seo rich content because we'd love to seo rich content because we'd love to see see see people landing on more church websites people landing on more church websites people landing on more church websites we think we believe i mean we think we believe i mean we think we believe i mean as great as schools like moody are that as great as schools like moody are that as great as schools like moody are that the local church is ultimately the local church is ultimately the local church is ultimately the it's the local authority on jesus

the it's the local authority on jesus the it's the local authority on jesus and and and and these spiritual questions hi bart and these spiritual questions hi bart and these spiritual questions hi bart blair here i'm the producer of missional blair here i'm the producer of missional blair here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews podcast podcast podcast on behalf of our entire team we really on behalf of our entire team we really on behalf of our entire team we really appreciate you tuning in appreciate you tuning in appreciate you tuning in let me ask you a question if you're a let me ask you a question if you're a let me ask you a question if you're a church leader or a church communications church leader or a church communications church leader or a church communications professional professional professional do you know how google sees your church do you know how google sees your church do you know how google sees your church website website website in other words if people in your in other words if people in your in other words if people in your community were to google community were to google community were to google churches near me or best church in my churches near me or best church in my churches near me or best church in my city or city or city or good church nearby do you know where good church nearby do you know where good church nearby do you know where your church website would show up in your church website would show up in your church website would show up in those search results those search results those search results at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the middle or somewhere on page four middle or somewhere on page four middle or somewhere on page four you know there's a common you know there's a common you know there's a common misunderstanding that if we simply build misunderstanding that if we simply build misunderstanding that if we simply build a great website and we launch it that a great website and we launch it that a great website and we launch it that google will somehow work its google will somehow work its google will somehow work its magic and people will find us online but magic and people will find us online but magic and people will find us online but there's a bit more art and science to there's a bit more art and science to there's a bit more art and science to making sure that your church website making sure that your church website making sure that your church website shows up shows up shows up in the top of those search results and in the top of those search results and in the top of those search results and that science is called local seo that science is called local seo that science is called local seo or local search engine optimization in or local search engine optimization in or local search engine optimization in additional marketing additional marketing additional marketing local seo is one of the core services local seo is one of the core services local seo is one of the core services that we provide for churches that we provide for churches that we provide for churches all across the united states and canada all across the united states and canada all across the united states and canada we'd love to help you we'd love to help you we'd love to help you if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page that says that says that says church seo you can request a free local church seo you can request a free local church seo you can request a free local seo report to see seo report to see seo report to see how your church is showing up in google how your church is showing up in google how your church is showing up in google these days and you can schedule an these days and you can schedule an these days and you can schedule an appointment to talk with jason appointment to talk with jason appointment to talk with jason or with me or with one of our other or with me or with one of our other or with me or with one of our other digital strategists to help you decide digital strategists to help you decide digital strategists to help you decide whether or not a local seo boost is whether or not a local seo boost is whether or not a local seo boost is right for your church right for your church right for your church hey again we appreciate you tuning in to hey again we appreciate you tuning in to hey again we appreciate you tuning in to our podcast and we look forward to the our podcast and we look forward to the our podcast and we look forward to the opportunity to serving you opportunity to serving you opportunity to serving you in your church and reaching more people

in your church and reaching more people in your church and reaching more people for jesus now back to the show for jesus now back to the show for jesus now back to the show so why don't you break down um so why don't you break down um so why don't you break down um and maybe try to put it in the context and maybe try to put it in the context and maybe try to put it in the context of understanding who our listeners are of understanding who our listeners are of understanding who our listeners are you know executive pastors church you know executive pastors church you know executive pastors church communications directors communications directors communications directors um you're going to create a content hub um you're going to create a content hub um you're going to create a content hub that you plan to dominate in google that you plan to dominate in google that you plan to dominate in google search search search what are the things that you have to do what are the things that you have to do what are the things that you have to do from a from a from a from a technical standpoint what do you from a technical standpoint what do you from a technical standpoint what do you have to do to dominate that space what have to do to dominate that space what have to do to dominate that space what do you have to do to show up do you have to do to show up do you have to do to show up in those google searches in those google searches in those google searches well i i i'm intimidated to answer this well i i i'm intimidated to answer this well i i i'm intimidated to answer this question in front of you guys because it question in front of you guys because it question in front of you guys because it sounds like you're the experts sounds like you're the experts sounds like you're the experts i am real so i'm relearning seo i am real so i'm relearning seo i am real so i'm relearning seo as we get this site ready to launch now as we get this site ready to launch now as we get this site ready to launch now i know that the organization we're i know that the organization we're i know that the organization we're working with working with working with is baking in a number of tools that will is baking in a number of tools that will is baking in a number of tools that will help us from a technical standpoint help us from a technical standpoint help us from a technical standpoint make sure that seo stuff happens so um make sure that seo stuff happens so um make sure that seo stuff happens so um uh i know that the the organization uh i know that the the organization uh i know that the the organization we're working with who i don't want to we're working with who i don't want to we're working with who i don't want to name because i don't know if they name because i don't know if they name because i don't know if they you know they haven't they haven't you know they haven't they haven't you know they haven't they haven't publicly named they're working with us publicly named they're working with us publicly named they're working with us either but i know that they either but i know that they either but i know that they that search is at the top of their mind that search is at the top of their mind that search is at the top of their mind and i know from conversation part of the and i know from conversation part of the and i know from conversation part of the reason we decided to work with them reason we decided to work with them reason we decided to work with them is because they bake tools into the the is because they bake tools into the the is because they bake tools into the the websites that they create websites that they create websites that they create from scratch to help with search from scratch to help with search from scratch to help with search specifically specifically specifically and so um i know that tools are and so um i know that tools are and so um i know that tools are important in technical aspects of how important in technical aspects of how important in technical aspects of how you you you build out your wordpress site or build out your wordpress site or build out your wordpress site or whatever other site your whatever other whatever other site your whatever other whatever other site your whatever other kind of build you're going to build but kind of build you're going to build but kind of build you're going to build but making sure you have the correct tools making sure you have the correct tools making sure you have the correct tools in place is important in place is important in place is important um what i found because i've like i said

um what i found because i've like i said um what i found because i've like i said i've been doing a lot of research on seo i've been doing a lot of research on seo i've been doing a lot of research on seo back when i used to create content in in back when i used to create content in in back when i used to create content in in 2010 11 2010 11 2010 11 12 um i was sure that what i when i 12 um i was sure that what i when i 12 um i was sure that what i when i looked up looked up looked up new seo guidelines or new seo trends new seo guidelines or new seo trends new seo guidelines or new seo trends in the last six months or so that i was in the last six months or so that i was in the last six months or so that i was going to find something dramatically going to find something dramatically going to find something dramatically different than what i saw in 2010 different than what i saw in 2010 different than what i saw in 2010 through 2012 through 2012 through 2012 and i was surprised honestly by how and i was surprised honestly by how and i was surprised honestly by how similar the strategy is similar the strategy is similar the strategy is from 2010 to 12 compared to today i from 2010 to 12 compared to today i from 2010 to 12 compared to today i thought surely there was some new way to thought surely there was some new way to thought surely there was some new way to not game the system but new a new way to not game the system but new a new way to not game the system but new a new way to play the seo game play the seo game play the seo game and frankly what i've found what i've and frankly what i've found what i've and frankly what i've found what i've found and i could be wrong so you guys found and i could be wrong so you guys found and i could be wrong so you guys are are are seem to be the experts you can correct seem to be the experts you can correct seem to be the experts you can correct me here is that it's a lot less about me here is that it's a lot less about me here is that it's a lot less about gaming the system and a lot more about gaming the system and a lot more about gaming the system and a lot more about creating content creating content creating content that people want exactly um and so that people want exactly um and so that people want exactly um and so where where keyword padding and all where where keyword padding and all where where keyword padding and all these other kinds of strategies used to these other kinds of strategies used to these other kinds of strategies used to be more popular and you used to figure be more popular and you used to figure be more popular and you used to figure out ways to out ways to out ways to trick google to to float your site to trick google to to float your site to trick google to to float your site to the top in ways that were maybe the top in ways that were maybe the top in ways that were maybe less than savvy and less and sort of less than savvy and less and sort of less than savvy and less and sort of yeah yeah yeah more black hat and sort of shady um more black hat and sort of shady um more black hat and sort of shady um uh today you can't really trick google uh today you can't really trick google uh today you can't really trick google as easily as easily as easily as you used to be able to and it's a lot as you used to be able to and it's a lot as you used to be able to and it's a lot more about more about more about headings and titles and making sure that headings and titles and making sure that headings and titles and making sure that you organize your content in effective you organize your content in effective you organize your content in effective ways ways ways rather which i'm all like i've been rather which i'm all like i've been rather which i'm all like i've been about that for a long time is back when about that for a long time is back when about that for a long time is back when i was working with authors i was working with authors i was working with authors more from a user experience perspective more from a user experience perspective more from a user experience perspective like it's it serves your like it's it serves your like it's it serves your readers if you organize your content readers if you organize your content readers if you organize your content effectively and what i effectively and what i effectively and what i kind of the perspective i've come away kind of the perspective i've come away kind of the perspective i've come away with is just treat google like it's a

with is just treat google like it's a with is just treat google like it's a reader reader reader um because it is i mean what it is um because it is i mean what it is um because it is i mean what it is that's right um that's right um that's right um so so i i would say to any pastors or so so i i would say to any pastors or so so i i would say to any pastors or communications folks listening communications folks listening communications folks listening um i mean do your research because there um i mean do your research because there um i mean do your research because there are like h3 headings making sure that are like h3 headings making sure that are like h3 headings making sure that like some like some like some certain technical aspects of your certain technical aspects of your certain technical aspects of your content are content are content are organized correctly is really important organized correctly is really important organized correctly is really important but it's a but it's a but it's a it's a lot more about creating a lot of it's a lot more about creating a lot of it's a lot more about creating a lot of content that people want to engage with content that people want to engage with content that people want to engage with than it is about tips and tricks and than it is about tips and tricks and than it is about tips and tricks and what i've found and this is more in what i've found and this is more in what i've found and this is more in social media but i think you guys would social media but i think you guys would social media but i think you guys would probably agree probably agree probably agree that this applies to seo as well when that this applies to seo as well when that this applies to seo as well when you get obsessed with like tips and you get obsessed with like tips and you get obsessed with like tips and tricks and like the little tweaks tricks and like the little tweaks tricks and like the little tweaks that is more often to me a sign of that is more often to me a sign of that is more often to me a sign of someone who's being lazy someone who's being lazy someone who's being lazy then it is a sign of someone who's then it is a sign of someone who's then it is a sign of someone who's trying to do the work trying to do the work trying to do the work little tweaks and making sure you have little tweaks and making sure you have little tweaks and making sure you have the right stuff in your titles and your the right stuff in your titles and your the right stuff in your titles and your headings and headings and headings and organizing your content so that google organizing your content so that google organizing your content so that google can read it and float it to the top can read it and float it to the top can read it and float it to the top effectively is important like those effectively is important like those effectively is important like those little little little tips and tricks as you might call them tips and tricks as you might call them tips and tricks as you might call them are really good are really good are really good but when it comes down to it you just but when it comes down to it you just but when it comes down to it you just gotta gotta gotta sit down and create content you just sit down and create content you just sit down and create content you just gotta like at some point gotta like at some point gotta like at some point we can talk strategy all day but we can talk strategy all day but we can talk strategy all day but eventually you're gonna have to start eventually you're gonna have to start eventually you're gonna have to start creating thousands of words of content creating thousands of words of content creating thousands of words of content and hundreds of pieces of content and hundreds of pieces of content and hundreds of pieces of content otherwise your tips and tricks don't otherwise your tips and tricks don't otherwise your tips and tricks don't really matter so really matter so really matter so let me go yeah you're exactly right let me go yeah you're exactly right let me go yeah you're exactly right that's right i mean and the thing that's right i mean and the thing that's right i mean and the thing the thing is church you guys are the thing is church you guys are the thing is church you guys are creating that content every week creating that content every week creating that content every week you're just not optimizing it the right you're just not optimizing it the right you're just not optimizing it the right way and way and way and it makes all the difference in google so

it makes all the difference in google so it makes all the difference in google so chris when you were chris when you were chris when you were doing that with like eric like you're doing that with like eric like you're doing that with like eric like you're you know he's he's creating content so you know he's he's creating content so you know he's he's creating content so he's the he's the he's the the guy that's pushing that stuff out the guy that's pushing that stuff out the guy that's pushing that stuff out how are you or what were you doing how are you or what were you doing how are you or what were you doing to take it and put in a social for to take it and put in a social for to take it and put in a social for people to people to people to absorb and digest like what what did absorb and digest like what what did absorb and digest like what what did that look like what would you do that look like what would you do that look like what would you do sure so to go from end to end because i sure so to go from end to end because i sure so to go from end to end because i think what we did in order to get eric think what we did in order to get eric think what we did in order to get eric to create content to create content to create content is incredibly important as well um so is incredibly important as well um so is incredibly important as well um so so eric was like i'm writing one piece a so eric was like i'm writing one piece a so eric was like i'm writing one piece a week guys there's no way i can be week guys there's no way i can be week guys there's no way i can be creating five pieces of content a week creating five pieces of content a week creating five pieces of content a week like like like and i mean in a sense i agreed because i and i mean in a sense i agreed because i and i mean in a sense i agreed because i was helping like was helping like was helping like hand hold him through that one piece of hand hold him through that one piece of hand hold him through that one piece of content a week and to get him to five content a week and to get him to five content a week and to get him to five at first i was like i don't know how at first i was like i don't know how at first i was like i don't know how we're gonna do this and so what we did we're gonna do this and so what we did we're gonna do this and so what we did is we said okay is we said okay is we said okay well one piece a week on wednesdays will well one piece a week on wednesdays will well one piece a week on wednesdays will be submitted by be submitted by be submitted by other teams within lifeway that'll be other teams within lifeway that'll be other teams within lifeway that'll be like we're gonna feature a lifeway like we're gonna feature a lifeway like we're gonna feature a lifeway resource his blog was run by lifeway on resource his blog was run by lifeway on resource his blog was run by lifeway on lifeway dollars he wanted to make sure lifeway dollars he wanted to make sure lifeway dollars he wanted to make sure that he's pushing people to lifeway that he's pushing people to lifeway that he's pushing people to lifeway resources and content so i said resources and content so i said resources and content so i said wednesday's taken care of friday is like wednesday's taken care of friday is like wednesday's taken care of friday is like a curated links post a curated links post a curated links post to some of the best content he's read to some of the best content he's read to some of the best content he's read throughout the week he would send me throughout the week he would send me throughout the week he would send me those links those links those links i'd organize them in a document into i'd organize them in a document into i'd organize them in a document into into wordpress into wordpress into wordpress and we'd share those links on friday so and we'd share those links on friday so and we'd share those links on friday so really what we have is three original really what we have is three original really what we have is three original pieces of content a week pieces of content a week pieces of content a week so make that 12 pieces a month once a so make that 12 pieces a month once a so make that 12 pieces a month once a month month month usually around like the first week of usually around like the first week of usually around like the first week of the month or sometimes the last week of the month or sometimes the last week of the month or sometimes the last week of the month looking forward to the next the month looking forward to the next the month looking forward to the next month month month trevin and i would go to lunch with eric trevin and i would go to lunch with eric trevin and i would go to lunch with eric and often at santa nejos and and often at santa nejos and and often at santa nejos and in nashville's wonderful mexican place in nashville's wonderful mexican place in nashville's wonderful mexican place we go over guac we go over guac we go over guac i'd come with roughly 15 to 20 blog post

i'd come with roughly 15 to 20 blog post i'd come with roughly 15 to 20 blog post ideas titles i'd come with ty i'm really ideas titles i'd come with ty i'm really ideas titles i'd come with ty i'm really good at titling blog content that's like good at titling blog content that's like good at titling blog content that's like one of my like one of my like one of my like weird things um i'd come with like 15 to weird things um i'd come with like 15 to weird things um i'd come with like 15 to 20 blog post titles of things that i 20 blog post titles of things that i 20 blog post titles of things that i could see him writing could see him writing could see him writing based on meetings i'd been in with him based on meetings i'd been in with him based on meetings i'd been in with him where he would where he would where he would talk about some leadership principle or talk about some leadership principle or talk about some leadership principle or books i knew he was reading that he books i knew he was reading that he books i knew he was reading that he would also often have some of his would also often have some of his would also often have some of his uh people who worked for him reading uh uh people who worked for him reading uh uh people who worked for him reading uh things that i had read in books that he things that i had read in books that he things that i had read in books that he had written had written had written or i'd go to some of his like top blog or i'd go to some of his like top blog or i'd go to some of his like top blog content from the last month or two and content from the last month or two and content from the last month or two and say oh is there another angle we can do say oh is there another angle we can do say oh is there another angle we can do on this on this on this this topic on three ways your you know this topic on three ways your you know this topic on three ways your you know your meeting should have been an email your meeting should have been an email your meeting should have been an email is there a way that we can do three ways is there a way that we can do three ways is there a way that we can do three ways you know your email should have been a you know your email should have been a you know your email should have been a meeting you know i'd like kind of meeting you know i'd like kind of meeting you know i'd like kind of pitch like other angles so i'd come with pitch like other angles so i'd come with pitch like other angles so i'd come with like a menu like a menu like a menu of 20 different ideas he would go of 20 different ideas he would go of 20 different ideas he would go through through through at lunch with this document i printed at lunch with this document i printed at lunch with this document i printed out and like x through out and like x through out and like x through or or circle ones that he liked or or or circle ones that he liked or or or circle ones that he liked or didn't like and we'd settle on 12 for didn't like and we'd settle on 12 for didn't like and we'd settle on 12 for the month the month the month and then we just kind of like talk about and then we just kind of like talk about and then we just kind of like talk about it as conversation fodder over lunch it as conversation fodder over lunch it as conversation fodder over lunch and and he would it would allow him to and and he would it would allow him to and and he would it would allow him to think through a lot of this content think through a lot of this content think through a lot of this content um that that wasn't out of left field um that that wasn't out of left field um that that wasn't out of left field for him again because i was pulling it for him again because i was pulling it for him again because i was pulling it from things i'd heard him say in from things i'd heard him say in from things i'd heard him say in meetings or whatever you know i'd listen meetings or whatever you know i'd listen meetings or whatever you know i'd listen i'd be i'd be i'd be always this is something a piece of always this is something a piece of always this is something a piece of advice for people listening advice for people listening advice for people listening if you're a if you're part of your if you're a if you're part of your if you're a if you're part of your responsibility as content creation for responsibility as content creation for responsibility as content creation for your church or your ministry your church or your ministry your church or your ministry organization organization organization you have to look at the world through you have to look at the world through you have to look at the world through the lens of content creation the lens of content creation the lens of content creation like everything whether you're reading a

like everything whether you're reading a like everything whether you're reading a book listening to a sermon book listening to a sermon book listening to a sermon listening to a podcast everything you listening to a podcast everything you listening to a podcast everything you hear hear hear should be heard or read through the lens should be heard or read through the lens should be heard or read through the lens of how can i turn this into a piece of of how can i turn this into a piece of of how can i turn this into a piece of content for myself like from my own content for myself like from my own content for myself like from my own angle angle angle and so we were kind of turning eric into and so we were kind of turning eric into and so we were kind of turning eric into that eventually like toward the end we that eventually like toward the end we that eventually like toward the end we weren't even having to pitch ideas to weren't even having to pitch ideas to weren't even having to pitch ideas to him like he was coming up with ideas on him like he was coming up with ideas on him like he was coming up with ideas on his own his own his own because we kind of trained him how to be because we kind of trained him how to be because we kind of trained him how to be a content creator a content creator a content creator to your question more pointedly on to your question more pointedly on to your question more pointedly on social media so eric i never wrote a social media so eric i never wrote a social media so eric i never wrote a word of content for eric word of content for eric word of content for eric eric would write all of his content eric would write all of his content eric would write all of his content deliver it to me i would load it into deliver it to me i would load it into deliver it to me i would load it into wordpress find a relevant image wordpress find a relevant image wordpress find a relevant image um and and usually he was working off of um and and usually he was working off of um and and usually he was working off of a title i already came up with oh and a title i already came up with oh and a title i already came up with oh and here's a here's a here's a so the reason the menu that i gave him so the reason the menu that i gave him so the reason the menu that i gave him was so important is because when he was so important is because when he was so important is because when he would sit down on a friday afternoon for would sit down on a friday afternoon for would sit down on a friday afternoon for two hours two hours two hours instead of like piddling around and work instead of like piddling around and work instead of like piddling around and work because the most terrifying thing to because the most terrifying thing to because the most terrifying thing to any blogger whether you're a any blogger whether you're a any blogger whether you're a professional author or not professional author or not professional author or not is sitting down in front of a blank is sitting down in front of a blank is sitting down in front of a blank wordpress screen not knowing where to wordpress screen not knowing where to wordpress screen not knowing where to start start start yeah like that's incredibly terrifying yeah like that's incredibly terrifying yeah like that's incredibly terrifying but he would sit down in front of his but he would sit down in front of his but he would sit down in front of his wordpress screen on a friday afternoon wordpress screen on a friday afternoon wordpress screen on a friday afternoon which is when he would did most of his which is when he would did most of his which is when he would did most of his writing writing writing and he would have a list of 12 different and he would have a list of 12 different and he would have a list of 12 different ideas that he already approved that he ideas that he already approved that he ideas that he already approved that he knows he likes and he would just pick knows he likes and he would just pick knows he likes and he would just pick one bang out a blog post in 30 minutes one bang out a blog post in 30 minutes one bang out a blog post in 30 minutes because if he already knew what he was because if he already knew what he was because if he already knew what he was going to write and it was something kind going to write and it was something kind going to write and it was something kind of based on something he said in a of based on something he said in a of based on something he said in a meeting last friday meeting last friday meeting last friday well he can bang out 700 words in 30 well he can bang out 700 words in 30 well he can bang out 700 words in 30 minutes on that no problem minutes on that no problem minutes on that no problem and so that made his content creation and so that made his content creation and so that made his content creation much more efficient which is much more efficient which is much more efficient which is all the only way he was able to create all the only way he was able to create all the only way he was able to create more than he was before more than he was before more than he was before but the fact that he saw

but the fact that he saw but the fact that he saw more blog post page views when he was more blog post page views when he was more blog post page views when he was creating more content is not a creating more content is not a creating more content is not a coincidence so creating more content is coincidence so creating more content is coincidence so creating more content is incredibly important incredibly important incredibly important how that translates to social media is how that translates to social media is how that translates to social media is um i i think our social media honestly i um i i think our social media honestly i um i i think our social media honestly i think our social media strategy was think our social media strategy was think our social media strategy was fine it's it would not work as well fine it's it would not work as well fine it's it would not work as well today today today but back then uh we were basically we uh but back then uh we were basically we uh but back then uh we were basically we uh on on on every day we had a new piece of blog every day we had a new piece of blog every day we had a new piece of blog post which was monday through friday post which was monday through friday post which was monday through friday uh the entire day would be linked on uh the entire day would be linked on uh the entire day would be linked on twitter which was his most twitter which was his most twitter which was his most um he got his most engagement on twitter um he got his most engagement on twitter um he got his most engagement on twitter most of the time until facebook most of the time until facebook most of the time until facebook live came out and that was a huge we we live came out and that was a huge we we live came out and that was a huge we we did a really good job on facebook live did a really good job on facebook live did a really good job on facebook live which we can talk about in a minute but which we can talk about in a minute but which we can talk about in a minute but um twitter is where he got his most um twitter is where he got his most um twitter is where he got his most engagement so twitter we would just post engagement so twitter we would just post engagement so twitter we would just post like six or eight tweets to the same like six or eight tweets to the same like six or eight tweets to the same blog post all day blog post all day blog post all day now i would not advise that today but now i would not advise that today but now i would not advise that today but back in 2004 back in 2004 back in 2004 15 16 that was working just fine like we 15 16 that was working just fine like we 15 16 that was working just fine like we were getting were getting were getting tons of hits from from twitter and then tons of hits from from twitter and then tons of hits from from twitter and then facebook we would just post once or facebook we would just post once or facebook we would just post once or twice usually what i would do is i would twice usually what i would do is i would twice usually what i would do is i would post post post the new post in the morning and an the new post in the morning and an the new post in the morning and an archive post in the evening archive post in the evening archive post in the evening and not post the same thing back to back and not post the same thing back to back and not post the same thing back to back on facebook because at the time the on facebook because at the time the on facebook because at the time the facebook algorithm was penalizing you if facebook algorithm was penalizing you if facebook algorithm was penalizing you if you posted the same thing back to back you posted the same thing back to back you posted the same thing back to back um so that and then eventually we did um so that and then eventually we did um so that and then eventually we did facebook live when facebook live came facebook live when facebook live came facebook live when facebook live came out out out that was that is in my opinion really that was that is in my opinion really that was that is in my opinion really what made the blog what made the blog what made the blog explode uh because we did a really good explode uh because we did a really good explode uh because we did a really good job with facebook live but job with facebook live but job with facebook live but but yeah so that that kind of yeah yeah but yeah so that that kind of yeah yeah but yeah so that that kind of yeah yeah and you know you said something that's and you know you said something that's and you know you said something that's really important for our listeners really important for our listeners really important for our listeners often churches create content and it's often churches create content and it's often churches create content and it's it's meant to be preached

it's meant to be preached it's meant to be preached to their congregation on some given to their congregation on some given to their congregation on some given sunday sunday sunday but what they don't do is they don't but what they don't do is they don't but what they don't do is they don't take the appropriate steps to create it take the appropriate steps to create it take the appropriate steps to create it for for for content to be consumed by people outside content to be consumed by people outside content to be consumed by people outside their church their church their church in a setting like how tubes or something in a setting like how tubes or something in a setting like how tubes or something like that they don't word smith like that they don't word smith like that they don't word smith in a way and that's what you're saying in a way and that's what you're saying in a way and that's what you're saying like you you got eric thinking oh no like you you got eric thinking oh no like you you got eric thinking oh no don't think about as you preach to don't think about as you preach to don't think about as you preach to people but more like people but more like people but more like how do you let somebody absorb content how do you let somebody absorb content how do you let somebody absorb content is that correct is that correct is that correct yeah yeah like if i were which i don't yeah yeah like if i were which i don't yeah yeah like if i were which i don't run content strategy run content strategy run content strategy at a church but if i were running at a church but if i were running at a church but if i were running content strategy strategy as a church content strategy strategy as a church content strategy strategy as a church at a church i would like take the sermon at a church i would like take the sermon at a church i would like take the sermon on sunday on sunday on sunday and i would i would have like a if your and i would i would have like a if your and i would i would have like a if your pastor runs off a manuscript i mean pastor runs off a manuscript i mean pastor runs off a manuscript i mean attaching that as a pdf or whatever is attaching that as a pdf or whatever is attaching that as a pdf or whatever is always very helpful always very helpful always very helpful but i would figure out how many pieces but i would figure out how many pieces but i would figure out how many pieces of blog post like bloggy content of blog post like bloggy content of blog post like bloggy content whether it's like listicles or like whether it's like listicles or like whether it's like listicles or like easily consumable easily consumable easily consumable bullet pointy kind of bloggy pieces of bullet pointy kind of bloggy pieces of bullet pointy kind of bloggy pieces of content content content can we pull out of this one cornerstone can we pull out of this one cornerstone can we pull out of this one cornerstone piece of content that is piece of content that is piece of content that is the sermon so uh could each point be its the sermon so uh could each point be its the sermon so uh could each point be its own post own post own post throughout the week that we could create throughout the week that we could create throughout the week that we could create that's more tailored wordsmith it that's more tailored wordsmith it that's more tailored wordsmith it organize it in such a way that it's organize it in such a way that it's organize it in such a way that it's consumable by by a broader audience consumable by by a broader audience consumable by by a broader audience rather than just like rather than just like rather than just like like copy pasting the entire transcript like copy pasting the entire transcript like copy pasting the entire transcript or the manuscript into or the manuscript into or the manuscript into into your wordpress i mean that's fine into your wordpress i mean that's fine into your wordpress i mean that's fine like including that stuff can be helpful like including that stuff can be helpful like including that stuff can be helpful yeah but i think yeah right at a minimum yeah but i think yeah right at a minimum yeah but i think yeah right at a minimum is exactly right is exactly right is exactly right but i think if you can kind of chip off but i think if you can kind of chip off but i think if you can kind of chip off a bunch of pebbles of content from that a bunch of pebbles of content from that a bunch of pebbles of content from that cornerstone

cornerstone cornerstone it can be really helpful to have uh like it can be really helpful to have uh like it can be really helpful to have uh like you said you said you said content that's you take something that's content that's you take something that's content that's you take something that's created for an created for an created for an offline audience specifically i mean offline audience specifically i mean offline audience specifically i mean through covet i guess it was an online through covet i guess it was an online through covet i guess it was an online audience as well but audience as well but audience as well but um you've created a piece of content um you've created a piece of content um you've created a piece of content that was for specific audience that was for specific audience that was for specific audience that's really long form probably 30 to that's really long form probably 30 to that's really long form probably 30 to 60 minutes or whatever 60 minutes or whatever 60 minutes or whatever and now how can you reform and repurpose and now how can you reform and repurpose and now how can you reform and repurpose that content that content that content into something that's more consumable in into something that's more consumable in into something that's more consumable in a way that people prefer to consume a way that people prefer to consume a way that people prefer to consume content on the internet content on the internet content on the internet because that's what like one of the because that's what like one of the because that's what like one of the biggest mistakes i see on social media biggest mistakes i see on social media biggest mistakes i see on social media all the time on a like smaller scale all the time on a like smaller scale all the time on a like smaller scale than what we're talking about than what we're talking about than what we're talking about is people who cr is when the strategy is people who cr is when the strategy is people who cr is when the strategy that is either that is either that is either because of overwork or just straight because of overwork or just straight because of overwork or just straight laziness where people create the same laziness where people create the same laziness where people create the same piece of content for every social media piece of content for every social media piece of content for every social media platform platform platform and don't tailor it either either to and don't tailor it either either to and don't tailor it either either to what the platform what the platform what the platform needs like instagram is much more image needs like instagram is much more image needs like instagram is much more image heavy than twitter obviously heavy than twitter obviously heavy than twitter obviously so like making sure your content is so like making sure your content is so like making sure your content is tailored to instagram is really tailored to instagram is really tailored to instagram is really important important important or most people like prof have a or most people like prof have a or most people like prof have a platform preference so even like platform preference so even like platform preference so even like you know first baptist church in you know first baptist church in you know first baptist church in nashville i'm not calling them out first nashville i'm not calling them out first nashville i'm not calling them out first baptist church wherever you live or baptist church wherever you live or baptist church wherever you live or whatever whatever church whatever whatever church whatever whatever church you're in my church is called city you're in my church is called city you're in my church is called city church so let's just use city church um church so let's just use city church um church so let's just use city church um city church instagram content may not be city church instagram content may not be city church instagram content may not be consumed by the same people who create consumed by the same people who create consumed by the same people who create who consume who consume who consume city church twitter content and the city church twitter content and the city church twitter content and the content should be adapted as content should be adapted as content should be adapted as a result and the same goes for your a result and the same goes for your a result and the same goes for your church and every piece of content you church and every piece of content you church and every piece of content you create create create adapt it appropriately i think it's adapt it appropriately i think it's adapt it appropriately i think it's really important so really important so really important so in that context the purpose of social

in that context the purpose of social in that context the purpose of social media i i'm media i i'm media i i'm i want to kind of peel back this layer i want to kind of peel back this layer i want to kind of peel back this layer again so you were working with eric again so you were working with eric again so you were working with eric you're working with ed stetzer you're you're working with ed stetzer you're you're working with ed stetzer you're working with authors working with authors working with authors who are creating content that who are creating content that who are creating content that is intended to be consumed on a website is intended to be consumed on a website is intended to be consumed on a website right it's po right it's po right it's po posted published on a website what's the posted published on a website what's the posted published on a website what's the role role role of social media as it relates to that of social media as it relates to that of social media as it relates to that content yeah uh that's a really good question i yeah uh that's a really good question i think the think the think the um depending on the audience and the depending on the audience and the creator creator creator social media will be one of the primary social media will be one of the primary social media will be one of the primary ways ways ways people come to see that that content people come to see that that content people come to see that that content exists exists exists so i've joked before that like if you so i've joked before that like if you so i've joked before that like if you write a blog post and it's like it could write a blog post and it's like it could write a blog post and it's like it could be one of the most profound blog posts be one of the most profound blog posts be one of the most profound blog posts anyone's ever read anyone's ever read anyone's ever read if you don't social that content if you don't social that content if you don't social that content appropriately it may as well not appropriately it may as well not appropriately it may as well not exist like if you don't get that content exist like if you don't get that content exist like if you don't get that content out on social media out on social media out on social media as in an appropriate way for your as in an appropriate way for your as in an appropriate way for your audience audience audience nobody will find it now obviously google nobody will find it now obviously google nobody will find it now obviously google can and can and can and and that kind of thing but that often and that kind of thing but that often and that kind of thing but that often takes time and a good bit of attention takes time and a good bit of attention takes time and a good bit of attention or or or cross or like linking and all that um cross or like linking and all that um cross or like linking and all that um and so i think and so i think and so i think for us like for when i was running for us like for when i was running for us like for when i was running social for for those guys social media social for for those guys social media social for for those guys social media was our primary was our primary was our primary source of traffic eventually i think for source of traffic eventually i think for source of traffic eventually i think for stetzer stetzer stetzer search engine traffic started to get search engine traffic started to get search engine traffic started to get more more more close to even with search traffic but if close to even with search traffic but if close to even with search traffic but if you especially like if you're creating

you especially like if you're creating you especially like if you're creating content that content that content that is timely in any manner search engine or is timely in any manner search engine or is timely in any manner search engine or social is much more important than social is much more important than social is much more important than search in terms of timeliness search in terms of timeliness search in terms of timeliness when i was at lifeway i created a when i was at lifeway i created a when i was at lifeway i created a website website website called lifewave voices toward the end of called lifewave voices toward the end of called lifewave voices toward the end of my time there and the whole point was my time there and the whole point was my time there and the whole point was um let's create a website where lifeway um let's create a website where lifeway um let's create a website where lifeway authors can comment on current events authors can comment on current events authors can comment on current events and cultural issues that were going on and cultural issues that were going on and cultural issues that were going on at the time at the time at the time and i said well social media has to be and i said well social media has to be and i said well social media has to be our number one priority in terms of our number one priority in terms of our number one priority in terms of marketing this content like getting this marketing this content like getting this marketing this content like getting this content out into the world content out into the world content out into the world because social media is where people go because social media is where people go because social media is where people go to interact with ideas to interact with ideas to interact with ideas based on current events and cultural based on current events and cultural based on current events and cultural issues and so i issues and so i issues and so i got a significant uh marketing budget got a significant uh marketing budget got a significant uh marketing budget that i just dumped into facebook that i just dumped into facebook that i just dumped into facebook and that's how we got a significant and that's how we got a significant and that's how we got a significant amount of attention to our website amount of attention to our website amount of attention to our website because we had no email list because we had no email list because we had no email list uh now i could use other email lists uh now i could use other email lists uh now i could use other email lists within lifeway but i had no dedicated within lifeway but i had no dedicated within lifeway but i had no dedicated email list for this new email list for this new email list for this new site that we created back in 2017. and site that we created back in 2017. and site that we created back in 2017. and so i had to rely so i had to rely so i had to rely on facebook i'd rely on facebook on facebook i'd rely on facebook on facebook i'd rely on facebook um ads to get into audiences who didn't um ads to get into audiences who didn't um ads to get into audiences who didn't know who we were or what we were doing know who we were or what we were doing know who we were or what we were doing and we would boost our content to uh and we would boost our content to uh and we would boost our content to uh audiences that we think would be audiences that we think would be audiences that we think would be interested based on whatever the content interested based on whatever the content interested based on whatever the content was or what the issue was we were was or what the issue was we were was or what the issue was we were talking about or things like that talking about or things like that talking about or things like that that makes sense okay i was just going that makes sense okay i was just going that makes sense okay i was just going to ask so if i'm at church you know to ask so if i'm at church you know to ask so if i'm at church you know and you're curious content that was and you're curious content that was and you're curious content that was preached on sunday and you're preached on sunday and you're preached on sunday and you're you're throughout the week you're taking you're throughout the week you're taking you're throughout the week you're taking it and you're doing it and you're doing it and you're doing multiple blog posts from it uh and multiple blog posts from it uh and multiple blog posts from it uh and you're pushing it on onto social you're you're pushing it on onto social you're you're pushing it on onto social you're actually boosting it or doing a paid actually boosting it or doing a paid actually boosting it or doing a paid campaign campaign campaign to drive traffic not only to see that

to drive traffic not only to see that to drive traffic not only to see that but then drive them back to but then drive them back to but then drive them back to the blog post that was your strategy the blog post that was your strategy the blog post that was your strategy yeah yeah yeah in part um i think especially the um in part um i think especially the um in part um i think especially the um when you're starting out like facebook when you're starting out like facebook when you're starting out like facebook man we could talk facebook strategy for man we could talk facebook strategy for man we could talk facebook strategy for like like like all afternoon um but more and more like all afternoon um but more and more like all afternoon um but more and more like there's never been a harder time to there's never been a harder time to there's never been a harder time to start a facebook strategy like a start a facebook strategy like a start a facebook strategy like a facebook content strategy facebook content strategy facebook content strategy um it's not people will say facebook is um it's not people will say facebook is um it's not people will say facebook is pay to play pay to play pay to play and uh like you have to pay in order to and uh like you have to pay in order to and uh like you have to pay in order to get any attention get any attention get any attention i think that's only true if your i think that's only true if your i think that's only true if your contents are really bad contents are really bad contents are really bad i do think that that paying is important i do think that that paying is important i do think that that paying is important now i don't think it's the only way now i don't think it's the only way now i don't think it's the only way that you can get attention and reach on that you can get attention and reach on that you can get attention and reach on facebook facebook facebook but i do think it is a good strategy but i do think it is a good strategy but i do think it is a good strategy um and i think especially as you're um and i think especially as you're um and i think especially as you're getting started getting started getting started paying is is very important so for paying is is very important so for paying is is very important so for anyone who's anyone who's anyone who's unaware i mean the the reason i think unaware i mean the the reason i think unaware i mean the the reason i think facebook facebook facebook facebook is my least favorite social facebook is my least favorite social facebook is my least favorite social media platform uh in existence for a media platform uh in existence for a media platform uh in existence for a number of reasons number of reasons number of reasons but it's the most important for most but it's the most important for most but it's the most important for most people listening to this podcast people listening to this podcast people listening to this podcast probably and when i say facebook i do probably and when i say facebook i do probably and when i say facebook i do mean facebook and instagram mean facebook and instagram mean facebook and instagram because in terms of content and ad because in terms of content and ad because in terms of content and ad boosting and things like that it's kind boosting and things like that it's kind boosting and things like that it's kind of the same of the same of the same thing from a from a strategy standpoint thing from a from a strategy standpoint thing from a from a strategy standpoint um um um so you have to spend money on facebook a so you have to spend money on facebook a so you have to spend money on facebook a lot of times when you're getting started lot of times when you're getting started lot of times when you're getting started because you it's like kindling on the because you it's like kindling on the because you it's like kindling on the fight and getting a fire going fight and getting a fire going fight and getting a fire going um you can start a fire without kindling um you can start a fire without kindling um you can start a fire without kindling it's just a lot harder and a lot more it's just a lot harder and a lot more it's just a lot harder and a lot more work and takes a lot more time work and takes a lot more time work and takes a lot more time but spending 20 even as like when i'm

but spending 20 even as like when i'm but spending 20 even as like when i'm advising authors especially who like advising authors especially who like advising authors especially who like don't have big don't have big don't have big marketing budgets or whatever i'm like marketing budgets or whatever i'm like marketing budgets or whatever i'm like man if you can just spend 20 bucks a man if you can just spend 20 bucks a man if you can just spend 20 bucks a week week week what i what i did at lifeway uh when i what i what i did at lifeway uh when i what i what i did at lifeway uh when i was running their facebook page because was running their facebook page because was running their facebook page because in addition to overseeing all those in addition to overseeing all those in addition to overseeing all those social media managers i was the one social media managers i was the one social media managers i was the one actually actually actually like creating content for the main life like creating content for the main life like creating content for the main life way facebook twitter way facebook twitter way facebook twitter uh and instagram i oversaw the woman who uh and instagram i oversaw the woman who uh and instagram i oversaw the woman who did that and did that and did that and when i kind of took over the lifeway when i kind of took over the lifeway when i kind of took over the lifeway facebook page it was virtually dead it facebook page it was virtually dead it facebook page it was virtually dead it had over 300 000 followers and likes had over 300 000 followers and likes had over 300 000 followers and likes but the engagement was almost but the engagement was almost but the engagement was almost non-existent because the person who had non-existent because the person who had non-existent because the person who had been running it beforehand been running it beforehand been running it beforehand was largely posting promos to events was largely posting promos to events was largely posting promos to events coupons for things in store coupons for things in store coupons for things in store and that stuff just doesn't get and that stuff just doesn't get and that stuff just doesn't get engagement on facebook because they engagement on facebook because they engagement on facebook because they don't because facebook don't because facebook don't because facebook actively suppresses that promotional actively suppresses that promotional actively suppresses that promotional kind of content and people just don't kind of content and people just don't kind of content and people just don't like that kind of stuff like that kind of stuff like that kind of stuff and so what i did is i did two really and so what i did is i did two really and so what i did is i did two really important things important things important things one uh i started creating bible verse one uh i started creating bible verse one uh i started creating bible verse share squares is what i call them i share squares is what i call them i share squares is what i call them i don't know what everyone else calls them don't know what everyone else calls them don't know what everyone else calls them um you know you see them on instagram or um you know you see them on instagram or um you know you see them on instagram or facebook all the time these square facebook all the time these square facebook all the time these square images images images often with a nice background or or often with a nice background or or often with a nice background or or whatever whatever whatever with a bible verse superimposed over top with a bible verse superimposed over top with a bible verse superimposed over top of him so okay so we were launching a of him so okay so we were launching a of him so okay so we were launching a new version of the bible new version of the bible new version of the bible and uh the christian standard bible and and uh the christian standard bible and and uh the christian standard bible and uh we were looking for uh we were looking for uh we were looking for better organic facebook content at the better organic facebook content at the better organic facebook content at the same time like content people would same time like content people would same time like content people would actually actually actually like to see on their facebook feed and like to see on their facebook feed and like to see on their facebook feed and so i said well what if we start creating so i said well what if we start creating so i said well what if we start creating these bible verse share squares these these bible verse share squares these these bible verse share squares these you see them on instagram or facebook you see them on instagram or facebook you see them on instagram or facebook all the time these square images with a all the time these square images with a all the time these square images with a nice aesthetic background and nice aesthetic background and nice aesthetic background and a bible verse to encourage people and i a bible verse to encourage people and i a bible verse to encourage people and i said we don't have any room in our said we don't have any room in our said we don't have any room in our facebook calendar right now

facebook calendar right now facebook calendar right now really i don't want to bump any of our really i don't want to bump any of our really i don't want to bump any of our content out so let's just run them at content out so let's just run them at content out so let's just run them at midnight every night and see what midnight every night and see what midnight every night and see what happens happens happens and just as like a test so we started and just as like a test so we started and just as like a test so we started running bible verse share squares at running bible verse share squares at running bible verse share squares at midnight midnight midnight uh a few years ago at lifeway uh a few years ago at lifeway uh a few years ago at lifeway and they were our most engaged piece of and they were our most engaged piece of and they were our most engaged piece of content immediately content immediately content immediately like hundreds of likes dozens of like hundreds of likes dozens of like hundreds of likes dozens of comments and shares and all that comments and shares and all that comments and shares and all that and it was like holy cow this is the and it was like holy cow this is the and it was like holy cow this is the best content that's the best engagement best content that's the best engagement best content that's the best engagement we've gotten on content in years we've gotten on content in years we've gotten on content in years and so it became like i had a graphic and so it became like i had a graphic and so it became like i had a graphic designer i paid a graphic designer to designer i paid a graphic designer to designer i paid a graphic designer to create create create 365 of these things to run every day of 365 of these things to run every day of 365 of these things to run every day of the year the year the year um and what happened was what we did um and what happened was what we did um and what happened was what we did from there is from there is from there is that content what that did in the that content what that did in the that content what that did in the facebook algorithm facebook algorithm facebook algorithm in its mind i guess you could say is in its mind i guess you could say is in its mind i guess you could say is that started to make our page feel that started to make our page feel that started to make our page feel relevant again in terms of the algorithm relevant again in terms of the algorithm relevant again in terms of the algorithm so it started delivering other pieces of so it started delivering other pieces of so it started delivering other pieces of like everyone who was engaging with that like everyone who was engaging with that like everyone who was engaging with that content was getting content was getting content was getting other pieces of our content that they other pieces of our content that they other pieces of our content that they hadn't been receiving before hadn't been receiving before hadn't been receiving before and so it was kind of if if you will and so it was kind of if if you will and so it was kind of if if you will allow me to use this crash allow me to use this crash allow me to use this crash term it was like the gateway drug back term it was like the gateway drug back term it was like the gateway drug back into our facebook page for a lot of into our facebook page for a lot of into our facebook page for a lot of people like people like people like people love to see bible verse share people love to see bible verse share people love to see bible verse share square so they would engage with those square so they would engage with those square so they would engage with those and then they'd get our post the next and then they'd get our post the next and then they'd get our post the next morning on this new women's event we morning on this new women's event we morning on this new women's event we were doing or this new book we are were doing or this new book we are were doing or this new book we are launching or launching or launching or whatever else but if if we wouldn't have whatever else but if if we wouldn't have whatever else but if if we wouldn't have introduced that new piece of content introduced that new piece of content introduced that new piece of content that people actually like that people actually like that people actually like they would facebook would have never they would facebook would have never they would facebook would have never thought to serve that next piece of thought to serve that next piece of thought to serve that next piece of content up to them content up to them content up to them at the same time a similar thing we at the same time a similar thing we at the same time a similar thing we introduced was introduced was introduced was boosting of content rather than just boosting of content rather than just boosting of content rather than just promotions of events or books or etc

promotions of events or books or etc promotions of events or books or etc so i established a budget of like 300 so i established a budget of like 300 so i established a budget of like 300 a week or something like that and every a week or something like that and every a week or something like that and every friday i would go back and find our two friday i would go back and find our two friday i would go back and find our two best posts from the last week like best best posts from the last week like best best posts from the last week like best performing like best engagement performing like best engagement performing like best engagement that weren't bible verse share squares that weren't bible verse share squares that weren't bible verse share squares that were other ones that were other ones that were other ones and i would boost those two posts that and i would boost those two posts that and i would boost those two posts that were organic originally were organic originally were organic originally you know maybe they did had 30 comments you know maybe they did had 30 comments you know maybe they did had 30 comments and 20 shares or whatever and like okay and 20 shares or whatever and like okay and 20 shares or whatever and like okay these are our best two posts from these are our best two posts from these are our best two posts from through the week let's boost them to through the week let's boost them to through the week let's boost them to relevant audiences for the next seven relevant audiences for the next seven relevant audiences for the next seven days and then next friday we'll do it days and then next friday we'll do it days and then next friday we'll do it again again again and what that content did then obviously and what that content did then obviously and what that content did then obviously was it got us into people's feeds was it got us into people's feeds was it got us into people's feeds through the paid avenue but it was through the paid avenue but it was through the paid avenue but it was content that was content that was content that was because of they were already they'd because of they were already they'd because of they were already they'd already performed well organically it already performed well organically it already performed well organically it was content that i knew was content that i knew was content that i knew was interesting to people and what i was interesting to people and what i was interesting to people and what i learned through that learned through that learned through that and i guess church's listening could and i guess church's listening could and i guess church's listening could take this is take this is take this is um this is a point i had down to talk um this is a point i had down to talk um this is a point i had down to talk about later for one of your other about later for one of your other about later for one of your other questions you asked bart but questions you asked bart but questions you asked bart but one of the most important things anyone one of the most important things anyone one of the most important things anyone can do on social media strategy that i can do on social media strategy that i can do on social media strategy that i think is too often overlooked think is too often overlooked think is too often overlooked is to care much more about what your is to care much more about what your is to care much more about what your audience audience audience and what your followers are interested and what your followers are interested and what your followers are interested in than what you are interested in as a in than what you are interested in as a in than what you are interested in as a church or an organization church or an organization church or an organization or whatever else because when it comes or whatever else because when it comes or whatever else because when it comes down to it down to it down to it you're competing as a church or as a you're competing as a church or as a you're competing as a church or as a christian organization whoever you are christian organization whoever you are christian organization whoever you are listening listening listening your competition on social media your competition on social media your competition on social media is with the biggest entertainment giants is with the biggest entertainment giants is with the biggest entertainment giants in the world in the world in the world because you're competing for attention

because you're competing for attention because you're competing for attention so so so budweiser is is famous for saying that budweiser is is famous for saying that budweiser is is famous for saying that their primary their primary their primary competitor is not miller light or competitor is not miller light or competitor is not miller light or whatever else whatever else whatever else it's water because they're competing for it's water because they're competing for it's water because they're competing for throat volume throat volume throat volume um netflix netflix netflix has said um netflix netflix netflix has said um netflix netflix netflix has said their biggest competitor their biggest competitor their biggest competitor is not hbo max or hulu netflix's biggest is not hbo max or hulu netflix's biggest is not hbo max or hulu netflix's biggest competitor is sleep competitor is sleep competitor is sleep because they're competing for time because they're competing for time because they're competing for time churches and ministry organizations who churches and ministry organizations who churches and ministry organizations who i consult with regularly i consult with regularly i consult with regularly are kind of flabbergasted by the idea are kind of flabbergasted by the idea are kind of flabbergasted by the idea that they're competing with that they're competing with that they're competing with youtube and some of the most youtube and some of the most youtube and some of the most active instagram influencers out there active instagram influencers out there active instagram influencers out there or or or uh tick-tock these days or whatever else uh tick-tock these days or whatever else uh tick-tock these days or whatever else but you are but you are but you are so churches listening ministry so churches listening ministry so churches listening ministry organizations listening organizations listening organizations listening you have to create content that your you have to create content that your you have to create content that your people actually want to read people actually want to read people actually want to read or watch not just that you think is or watch not just that you think is or watch not just that you think is interesting interesting interesting now it's important for you to post your now it's important for you to post your now it's important for you to post your announcement about your big summer announcement about your big summer announcement about your big summer summer blast get together coming up or summer blast get together coming up or summer blast get together coming up or your fall men's retreat or your fall men's retreat or your fall men's retreat or like notifying people of those things like notifying people of those things like notifying people of those things that you're excited about that's all that you're excited about that's all that you're excited about that's all good good good that's like that stuff's important but that's like that stuff's important but that's like that stuff's important but it should be a it should be a it should be a significantly small portion of the significantly small portion of the significantly small portion of the content from a social media content from a social media content from a social media strategy perspective from an online strategy perspective from an online strategy perspective from an online content strategy perspective content strategy perspective content strategy perspective if all you ever do is use social media if all you ever do is use social media if all you ever do is use social media as a virtual bulletin board as a virtual bulletin board as a virtual bulletin board people are going to tune you out like people are going to tune you out like people are going to tune you out like they tune out all the other stuff that's they tune out all the other stuff that's they tune out all the other stuff that's a virtual bulletin board on social media a virtual bulletin board on social media a virtual bulletin board on social media and then you can create exactly yeah and and then you can create exactly yeah and and then you can create exactly yeah and facebook will recognize it and then your facebook will recognize it and then your facebook will recognize it and then your content will just get

content will just get content will just get suppressed because facebook wants to suppressed because facebook wants to suppressed because facebook wants to deliver like here's here's deliver like here's here's deliver like here's here's how facebook works is facebook wants to how facebook works is facebook wants to how facebook works is facebook wants to make money make money make money which is hey really every are you which is hey really every are you which is hey really every are you are you sure about that and are you sure about that and are you sure about that and hey look in our in our free capitalist hey look in our in our free capitalist hey look in our in our free capitalist democracy that is a totally legitimate democracy that is a totally legitimate democracy that is a totally legitimate reason for business to exist reason for business to exist reason for business to exist so facebook wants to make money the so facebook wants to make money the so facebook wants to make money the primary way they make money primary way they make money primary way they make money is by delivering is by keeping people on is by delivering is by keeping people on is by delivering is by keeping people on the platform the platform the platform the way they keep people on the platform the way they keep people on the platform the way they keep people on the platform is by delivering content that's as in is by delivering content that's as in is by delivering content that's as in that's most interesting to people that's most interesting to people that's most interesting to people and if your facebook page church or and if your facebook page church or and if your facebook page church or ministry organization ministry organization ministry organization is delivering content that based on the is delivering content that based on the is delivering content that based on the engagement metrics engagement metrics engagement metrics is not interesting to people they're is not interesting to people they're is not interesting to people they're going to make your content appear less going to make your content appear less going to make your content appear less frequently frequently frequently than other facebook pages that is than other facebook pages that is than other facebook pages that is that are demonstrating their content is that are demonstrating their content is that are demonstrating their content is more interesting to people more interesting to people more interesting to people um and so whatever you can do as a um and so whatever you can do as a um and so whatever you can do as a church to create content that your church to create content that your church to create content that your followers actually are interested in followers actually are interested in followers actually are interested in the better off your social media the better off your social media the better off your social media strategy will be now i'm not saying you strategy will be now i'm not saying you strategy will be now i'm not saying you need to like start posting cat videos need to like start posting cat videos need to like start posting cat videos like goofy cat videos or whatever like goofy cat videos or whatever like goofy cat videos or whatever funniest home videos kind of stuff funniest home videos kind of stuff funniest home videos kind of stuff but if there's a big you know uh kind of but if there's a big you know uh kind of but if there's a big you know uh kind of current event issue going on in your current event issue going on in your current event issue going on in your city um that you know people in your city um that you know people in your city um that you know people in your church are interested in are church are interested in are church are interested in are concerned about create content around concerned about create content around concerned about create content around that in as much as it that in as much as it that in as much as it affects your churches is important um affects your churches is important um affects your churches is important um not just not just not just some random thing about an event that's some random thing about an event that's some random thing about an event that's six months away that you want to let six months away that you want to let six months away that you want to let people know is happening people know is happening people know is happening so anyway that that's a little bit of a so anyway that that's a little bit of a so anyway that that's a little bit of a rant but facebook strategy is super rant but facebook strategy is super rant but facebook strategy is super important in that regard

important in that regard important in that regard and knowing how facebook works and and knowing how facebook works and and knowing how facebook works and knowing that knowing that knowing that what your audience cares about is more what your audience cares about is more what your audience cares about is more important than anything i think is important than anything i think is important than anything i think is really important really important really important well and i'll go i'm gonna just go one well and i'll go i'm gonna just go one well and i'll go i'm gonna just go one layer deeper because a lot of people layer deeper because a lot of people layer deeper because a lot of people will will will will look at social media and say it's will look at social media and say it's will look at social media and say it's evil everything on there is evil and evil everything on there is evil and evil everything on there is evil and it's filling the minds and it's filling the minds and it's filling the minds and and they they have an agenda and all and they they have an agenda and all and they they have an agenda and all that kind of stuff and my answer to them that kind of stuff and my answer to them that kind of stuff and my answer to them is going well then is going well then is going well then if it will if it's if it was built for if it will if it's if it was built for if it will if it's if it was built for evil evil evil you need to put good into it you need to you need to put good into it you need to you need to put good into it you need to put light into it put light into it put light into it you need to fill it with biblical things you need to fill it with biblical things you need to fill it with biblical things god things that are that are that are god things that are that are that are god things that are that are that are going to point them to god going to point them to god going to point them to god and that's how you combat that and you and that's how you combat that and you and that's how you combat that and you have to like you're to your point you have to like you're to your point you have to like you're to your point you have to be have to be have to be creative and strategic about what you creative and strategic about what you creative and strategic about what you put on there not just put on there not just put on there not just post something because you know you got post something because you know you got post something because you know you got this the event coming up in two days this the event coming up in two days this the event coming up in two days and uh boy that what you just said there and uh boy that what you just said there and uh boy that what you just said there i think churches take to heart because i think churches take to heart because i think churches take to heart because uh not only absorb what but chris just uh not only absorb what but chris just uh not only absorb what but chris just said but implement it said but implement it said but implement it uh because you got to have some kind of uh because you got to have some kind of uh because you got to have some kind of a strategy we get asked all the time a strategy we get asked all the time a strategy we get asked all the time you know can you help us create a you know can you help us create a you know can you help us create a strategy i mean what you just said strategy i mean what you just said strategy i mean what you just said that's that's it yeah yeah and that's that's that's it yeah yeah and that's that's that's it yeah yeah and that's like i've i i do a good bit of like like i've i i do a good bit of like like i've i i do a good bit of like social media and digital content social media and digital content social media and digital content consulting with folks uh consulting with folks uh consulting with folks uh churches authors that kind of thing yeah churches authors that kind of thing yeah churches authors that kind of thing yeah and and and like i said earlier i can start like like i said earlier i can start like like i said earlier i can start like i'll when i enter into a consulting i'll when i enter into a consulting i'll when i enter into a consulting relationship with someone i'll relationship with someone i'll relationship with someone i'll i'll say you know i don't get anyone i'll say you know i don't get anyone i'll say you know i don't get anyone under a contract i'm like i'm here for under a contract i'm like i'm here for under a contract i'm like i'm here for six weeks six months six years however six weeks six months six years however six weeks six months six years however long you need my help i'm happy to help

long you need my help i'm happy to help long you need my help i'm happy to help you you you um but what one of the most common um but what one of the most common um but what one of the most common obstacles i run into with folks that i obstacles i run into with folks that i obstacles i run into with folks that i consult consult consult is we'll talk strategy for four months is we'll talk strategy for four months is we'll talk strategy for four months you know we'll have four meetings and you know we'll have four meetings and you know we'll have four meetings and talk strategy talk strategy talk strategy for four hours and then in month five for four hours and then in month five for four hours and then in month five maybe we'll get together and i'll say maybe we'll get together and i'll say maybe we'll get together and i'll say hey hey hey we talked strategy we got you a content we talked strategy we got you a content we talked strategy we got you a content plan we talked about how you're gonna plan we talked about how you're gonna plan we talked about how you're gonna post the facebook post the facebook post the facebook twice a day for five days a week or twice a day for five days a week or twice a day for five days a week or whatever and so how's it going whatever and so how's it going whatever and so how's it going and then they'll say well we just didn't and then they'll say well we just didn't and then they'll say well we just didn't get around to it and get around to it and get around to it and that's where the most common problem i that's where the most common problem i that's where the most common problem i run into is someone who's done run into is someone who's done run into is someone who's done kind of content marketing consulting kind of content marketing consulting kind of content marketing consulting with churches over the years and with with churches over the years and with with churches over the years and with pastors et cetera is pastors et cetera is pastors et cetera is folks just don't want to do the work you folks just don't want to do the work you folks just don't want to do the work you got to do the work you can talk strategy got to do the work you can talk strategy got to do the work you can talk strategy until you're blue in the face until you're blue in the face until you're blue in the face but if you don't create content it but if you don't create content it but if you don't create content it doesn't matter um and so you can you can doesn't matter um and so you can you can doesn't matter um and so you can you can pull all the right levers and do all the pull all the right levers and do all the pull all the right levers and do all the tips and tricks on facebook or whatever tips and tricks on facebook or whatever tips and tricks on facebook or whatever else else else but if you aren't creating the con if but if you aren't creating the con if but if you aren't creating the con if you're creating two pieces of facebook you're creating two pieces of facebook you're creating two pieces of facebook content every week it doesn't matter content every week it doesn't matter content every week it doesn't matter what leverage you pull it does it's just what leverage you pull it does it's just what leverage you pull it does it's just it's not going to make a dent it's not going to make a dent it's not going to make a dent wow chris we've got to wrap up because wow chris we've got to wrap up because wow chris we've got to wrap up because we're out of time we're out of time we're out of time i wasn't joking i have a whole lot of i wasn't joking i have a whole lot of i wasn't joking i have a whole lot of questions i have questions about email questions i have questions about email questions i have questions about email that we're not even going to get into that we're not even going to get into that we're not even going to get into here because as a content marker here because as a content marker here because as a content marker and and i know because i get your emails and and i know because i get your emails and and i know because i get your emails um um um emails is also a big part emails is also a big part emails is also a big part of our content distribution and of our content distribution and of our content distribution and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna schedule another conversation to kind of schedule another conversation to kind of schedule another conversation to kind of pick up on this and and and talk about pick up on this and and and talk about pick up on this and and and talk about some other things um before we some other things um before we some other things um before we sign off here uh i would i've mentioned

sign off here uh i would i've mentioned sign off here uh i would i've mentioned your podcast that i've mentioned your your podcast that i've mentioned your your podcast that i've mentioned your email why don't you just take a second email why don't you just take a second email why don't you just take a second to to to share with our listeners um the content share with our listeners um the content share with our listeners um the content that you're creating how they can learn that you're creating how they can learn that you're creating how they can learn more about what you're doing how they more about what you're doing how they more about what you're doing how they can follow you online and connect with can follow you online and connect with can follow you online and connect with you if they want to connect with you you if they want to connect with you you if they want to connect with you sure um so i i'm on a podcast called sure um so i i'm on a podcast called sure um so i i'm on a podcast called social social social cues where we talk about just all kinds cues where we talk about just all kinds cues where we talk about just all kinds of social media questions both related of social media questions both related of social media questions both related to to to culture and also strategy a lot of what culture and also strategy a lot of what culture and also strategy a lot of what we talked about here we talked about here we talked about here um we're taking a summer break uh um we're taking a summer break uh um we're taking a summer break uh because we all like all three of us who because we all like all three of us who because we all like all three of us who host the podcast have a lot going on host the podcast have a lot going on host the podcast have a lot going on this summer this summer this summer so but you can find it on anywhere you so but you can find it on anywhere you so but you can find it on anywhere you find podcasts social cues find podcasts social cues find podcasts social cues and like the letter queues and questions and like the letter queues and questions and like the letter queues and questions um but then i write a twice weekly um but then i write a twice weekly um but then i write a twice weekly newsletter newsletter newsletter called sometimes three times weekly called sometimes three times weekly called sometimes three times weekly newsletter called terms of service newsletter called terms of service newsletter called terms of service through sub stack you can find it at through sub stack you can find it at through sub stack you can find it at termsofservice.social i have a book termsofservice.social i have a book termsofservice.social i have a book coming out uh coming out uh coming out uh called terms of service with b h called terms of service with b h called terms of service with b h publishing in february publishing in february publishing in february and there i i do a little bit of and there i i do a little bit of and there i i do a little bit of strategy there but most of my writing strategy there but most of my writing strategy there but most of my writing there is more on kind of the big picture there is more on kind of the big picture there is more on kind of the big picture social media culture what's social media social media culture what's social media social media culture what's social media doing to us and how is it affecting us doing to us and how is it affecting us doing to us and how is it affecting us in ways maybe we don't realize in ways maybe we don't realize in ways maybe we don't realize um so i do a good bit of like uh um so i do a good bit of like uh um so i do a good bit of like uh introspection and introspection and introspection and let's pay attention to how social media let's pay attention to how social media let's pay attention to how social media is changing how we live because i think is changing how we live because i think is changing how we live because i think a lot of times we just don't pay a lot of times we just don't pay a lot of times we just don't pay attention to that kind of stuff attention to that kind of stuff attention to that kind of stuff so that's why i do a good bit of that so that's why i do a good bit of that so that's why i do a good bit of that writing you can find me on social media writing you can find me on social media writing you can find me on social media twitter i'm at chrismartin17 i'm i'm twitter i'm at chrismartin17 i'm i'm twitter i'm at chrismartin17 i'm i'm currently currently currently exercising a bit of a healthy more exercising a bit of a healthy more exercising a bit of a healthy more healthy relationship with twitter so healthy relationship with twitter so healthy relationship with twitter so if you try to dm me or anything there i if you try to dm me or anything there i if you try to dm me or anything there i probably don't see it but i'm on probably don't see it but i'm on probably don't see it but i'm on linkedin or or wherever else uh linkedin or or wherever else uh linkedin or or wherever else uh and you can you can find me on those and you can you can find me on those and you can you can find me on those places as well awesome

places as well awesome places as well awesome chris thanks a ton for hanging out with chris thanks a ton for hanging out with chris thanks a ton for hanging out with us today um us today um us today um i'm following you i'm learning a lot i'm following you i'm learning a lot i'm following you i'm learning a lot from the stuff that you guys are from the stuff that you guys are from the stuff that you guys are creating from your podcast it's awesome creating from your podcast it's awesome creating from your podcast it's awesome we'll link to those all that stuff in we'll link to those all that stuff in we'll link to those all that stuff in our show notes here our show notes here our show notes here and again thanks for hanging out with us and again thanks for hanging out with us and again thanks for hanging out with us today today today sure sure thanks guys talk to you soon