Bridging the Gap Between Church Comms and Senior Leadership | Holly Tate

[Music] [Music] so I think when we come in with like a so I think when we come in with like a so I think when we come in with like a this is the right way to do it that this is the right way to do it that this is the right way to do it that often puts people on their heels no often puts people on their heels no often puts people on their heels no matter what age we are and but when we matter what age we are and but when we matter what age we are and but when we come with hey I've got this idea and I come with hey I've got this idea and I come with hey I've got this idea and I wanted to get your take on it what do wanted to get your take on it what do wanted to get your take on it what do you think if we did XYZ you think if we did XYZ you think if we did XYZ that is often a really great way to help that is often a really great way to help that is often a really great way to help bring people along in the journey and bring people along in the journey and bring people along in the journey and then not only do we learn things because then not only do we learn things because then not only do we learn things because we just don't know what we don't know we just don't know what we don't know we just don't know what we don't know but we learn things along the way but we but we learn things along the way but we but we learn things along the way but we also allow that person to have input and also allow that person to have input and also allow that person to have input and then when people have input that then when people have input that then when people have input that furthers their buy-in and so um that furthers their buy-in and so um that furthers their buy-in and so um that would be my biggest piece of advice is would be my biggest piece of advice is would be my biggest piece of advice is when we're working with when we're working with when we're working with multi-generational teams is to stay multi-generational teams is to stay multi-generational teams is to stay curious and uh and really bring people curious and uh and really bring people curious and uh and really bring people along on the journey as you're you know along on the journey as you're you know along on the journey as you're you know bringing up new ideas or different bringing up new ideas or different bringing up new ideas or different solutions that'll help you solutions that'll help you solutions that'll help you immensely along the way to make those immensely along the way to make those immensely along the way to make those relational deposits before you have to relational deposits before you have to relational deposits before you have to you know make some of those withdraws you know make some of those withdraws you know make some of those withdraws and make those changes that can and make those changes that can and make those changes that can sometimes be a lot for people this is sometimes be a lot for people this is sometimes be a lot for people this is season three episode 33 of the missional season three episode 33 of the missional season three episode 33 of the missional marketing podcast it's the real episode marketing podcast it's the real episode marketing podcast it's the real episode 33. uh if you listen to last week's 33. uh if you listen to last week's 33. uh if you listen to last week's podcast episode I introduced it as podcast episode I introduced it as podcast episode I introduced it as episode 33 and that's because I got some episode 33 and that's because I got some episode 33 and that's because I got some of the recordings out of order um that of the recordings out of order um that of the recordings out of order um that was actually episode 32. this is episode was actually episode 32. this is episode was actually episode 32. this is episode 33 season three episode 33 and it's 33 season three episode 33 and it's 33 season three episode 33 and it's going to be a real treat for you today going to be a real treat for you today going to be a real treat for you today my name is Bart Blair and I am one of my name is Bart Blair and I am one of my name is Bart Blair and I am one of the co-hosts of the podcast I do this the co-hosts of the podcast I do this the co-hosts of the podcast I do this podcast with uh Jason Hamrock who is the podcast with uh Jason Hamrock who is the podcast with uh Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of missional marketing uh Jason and CEO of missional marketing uh Jason and CEO of missional marketing uh Jason and our team at missional marketing is our team at missional marketing is our team at missional marketing is dedicated to helping churches like yours

dedicated to helping churches like yours dedicated to helping churches like yours leverage your digital footprint to reach leverage your digital footprint to reach leverage your digital footprint to reach more people for Jesus we produce this more people for Jesus we produce this more people for Jesus we produce this podcast so we can help your church grow podcast so we can help your church grow podcast so we can help your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and by leveraging digital marketing and by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications we just want to effective Communications we just want to effective Communications we just want to see your church be effective at reaching see your church be effective at reaching see your church be effective at reaching more people and so we have an amazing more people and so we have an amazing more people and so we have an amazing team of people that work behind the team of people that work behind the team of people that work behind the scenes and face to face with churches on scenes and face to face with churches on scenes and face to face with churches on a regular daily basis to help them a regular daily basis to help them a regular daily basis to help them understand things like Google and social understand things like Google and social understand things like Google and social media and marketing and really just media and marketing and really just media and marketing and really just doing the best that we can to use all doing the best that we can to use all doing the best that we can to use all resources available for us to resources available for us to resources available for us to communicate the gospel and to get more communicate the gospel and to get more communicate the gospel and to get more people through the doors of your church people through the doors of your church people through the doors of your church now today's episode is one that I now today's episode is one that I now today's episode is one that I honestly I'm very excited about honestly I'm very excited about honestly I'm very excited about um our guest today is Holly Tate and um our guest today is Holly Tate and um our guest today is Holly Tate and Holly is someone that I've actually Holly is someone that I've actually Holly is someone that I've actually looked up to for a number of years Holly looked up to for a number of years Holly looked up to for a number of years Holly has in her short career she is a young has in her short career she is a young has in her short career she is a young leader who who has done a lot in a very leader who who has done a lot in a very leader who who has done a lot in a very short period of time in fact she works short period of time in fact she works short period of time in fact she works today for an organization called leader today for an organization called leader today for an organization called leader and I'm just going to say Holly is an and I'm just going to say Holly is an and I'm just going to say Holly is an expert in leadership and Holly and I expert in leadership and Holly and I expert in leadership and Holly and I bumped into each other for just a few bumped into each other for just a few bumped into each other for just a few minutes at a conference in Dallas minutes at a conference in Dallas minutes at a conference in Dallas earlier this year and I said hey I think earlier this year and I said hey I think earlier this year and I said hey I think it would be great to have you on the it would be great to have you on the it would be great to have you on the show and she said sure let me know and show and she said sure let me know and show and she said sure let me know and we put it together and so today's we put it together and so today's we put it together and so today's conversation is one uh where we really conversation is one uh where we really conversation is one uh where we really want to lean into some of the leadership want to lean into some of the leadership want to lean into some of the leadership aspects of being on a Communications aspects of being on a Communications aspects of being on a Communications team or being the communications team or being the communications team or being the communications director and how your relationship with director and how your relationship with director and how your relationship with other people and your staff specifically other people and your staff specifically other people and your staff specifically your senior leadership team how you can your senior leadership team how you can your senior leadership team how you can improve those types of relationships and improve those types of relationships and improve those types of relationships and how you can be a better leader in your how you can be a better leader in your how you can be a better leader in your church I think that you're going to find church I think that you're going to find church I think that you're going to find this conversation to be really this conversation to be really this conversation to be really fascinating and really helpful and I'm

fascinating and really helpful and I'm fascinating and really helpful and I'm just so grateful uh to Holly for taking just so grateful uh to Holly for taking just so grateful uh to Holly for taking the time to be on our show it's a real the time to be on our show it's a real the time to be on our show it's a real treat treat treat um if you're new to the podcast and you um if you're new to the podcast and you um if you're new to the podcast and you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen make sure that you do that if you listen make sure that you do that if you listen make sure that you do that if you haven't left us a rating or review we haven't left us a rating or review we haven't left us a rating or review we would love one we'd love a five star would love one we'd love a five star would love one we'd love a five star review if you you'll leave us a five review if you you'll leave us a five review if you you'll leave us a five star review that'll help more people star review that'll help more people star review that'll help more people find the podcast you know how the find the podcast you know how the find the podcast you know how the algorithms work and we're just trying to algorithms work and we're just trying to algorithms work and we're just trying to share the love on the podcast this is share the love on the podcast this is share the love on the podcast this is also available on our YouTube channel if also available on our YouTube channel if also available on our YouTube channel if you happen to not be watching on YouTube you happen to not be watching on YouTube you happen to not be watching on YouTube you can watch on YouTube and if you're you can watch on YouTube and if you're you can watch on YouTube and if you're watching on YouTube make sure that you watching on YouTube make sure that you watching on YouTube make sure that you both subscribe and ring the bell so that both subscribe and ring the bell so that both subscribe and ring the bell so that you don't miss any future episodes well you don't miss any future episodes well you don't miss any future episodes well thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this week's episode of our podcast week's episode of our podcast week's episode of our podcast um here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of um here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of um here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing and our interview missional marketing and our interview missional marketing and our interview with Holly Tate with Holly Tate with Holly Tate well Holly welcome to the show how are well Holly welcome to the show how are well Holly welcome to the show how are you I am good yes thanks for having me you I am good yes thanks for having me you I am good yes thanks for having me I'm excited to be here oh so excited to I'm excited to be here oh so excited to I'm excited to be here oh so excited to have you here as we're doing this right have you here as we're doing this right have you here as we're doing this right now we're a few days out from Easter and now we're a few days out from Easter and now we're a few days out from Easter and so we're so excited about what that's so we're so excited about what that's so we're so excited about what that's going to do for churches around the going to do for churches around the going to do for churches around the country man we'll just be praying that country man we'll just be praying that country man we'll just be praying that churches are blessed by tons of people churches are blessed by tons of people churches are blessed by tons of people coming to hear the gospel maybe for the coming to hear the gospel maybe for the coming to hear the gospel maybe for the first time so just want to give that first time so just want to give that first time so just want to give that little shout out there to we're excited little shout out there to we're excited little shout out there to we're excited about that about that about that [Music] [Music] [Music] so excited to have you on the show so excited to have you on the show so excited to have you on the show because today we're going to talk about because today we're going to talk about because today we're going to talk about a topic that everybody who works in a a topic that everybody who works in a a topic that everybody who works in a church has to deal with church has to deal with church has to deal with it's the topic of leadership and talking it's the topic of leadership and talking it's the topic of leadership and talking about how do you have conversations so about how do you have conversations so about how do you have conversations so before we dive into that though I'd love before we dive into that though I'd love before we dive into that though I'd love to have our audience just if they don't

to have our audience just if they don't to have our audience just if they don't know who you are just give us a some know who you are just give us a some know who you are just give us a some background because you've been doing background because you've been doing background because you've been doing this for a long time before we're this for a long time before we're this for a long time before we're talking about so give us just a little talking about so give us just a little talking about so give us just a little bit of your back story and and what bit of your back story and and what bit of your back story and and what you've been up to yeah well um well and you've been up to yeah well um well and you've been up to yeah well um well and also to your point about Easter let's also to your point about Easter let's also to your point about Easter let's just you know give a uh big bigger shout just you know give a uh big bigger shout just you know give a uh big bigger shout out to all the church comms people out to all the church comms people out to all the church comms people because we know that the hard work because we know that the hard work because we know that the hard work behind the scenes of all of the graphics behind the scenes of all of the graphics behind the scenes of all of the graphics and signage and printouts and and and so and signage and printouts and and and so and signage and printouts and and and so um I hope that you're getting lots of um I hope that you're getting lots of um I hope that you're getting lots of rest Post Easter as you're listening to rest Post Easter as you're listening to rest Post Easter as you're listening to this but yeah Jason so uh currently my this but yeah Jason so uh currently my this but yeah Jason so uh currently my role is a senior vice president of role is a senior vice president of role is a senior vice president of growth at a company called leader we are growth at a company called leader we are growth at a company called leader we are a people development software that helps a people development software that helps a people development software that helps churches really develop their people so churches really develop their people so churches really develop their people so engage and grow every person on their engage and grow every person on their engage and grow every person on their team essentially uh what we set out to team essentially uh what we set out to team essentially uh what we set out to do is go okay how can we care for our do is go okay how can we care for our do is go okay how can we care for our staff as well as we're caring for our staff as well as we're caring for our staff as well as we're caring for our congregation and so I've been on that congregation and so I've been on that congregation and so I've been on that team for a little over two years now but team for a little over two years now but team for a little over two years now but prior to that I was VP of marketing and prior to that I was VP of marketing and prior to that I was VP of marketing and business development at a company called business development at a company called business development at a company called vanderbloomen which helps churches build vanderbloomen which helps churches build vanderbloomen which helps churches build great teams through executive Search and great teams through executive Search and great teams through executive Search and Staffing and so it was on the team there Staffing and so it was on the team there Staffing and so it was on the team there for for for um almost nine years and then before um almost nine years and then before um almost nine years and then before that I worked for a Christian in radio that I worked for a Christian in radio that I worked for a Christian in radio network so a company called Salem network so a company called Salem network so a company called Salem Communications I sold radio advertising Communications I sold radio advertising Communications I sold radio advertising before I joined the vanderbilman team so before I joined the vanderbilman team so before I joined the vanderbilman team so been working adjacent to churches for been working adjacent to churches for been working adjacent to churches for oh goodness what is that 12 years now uh

oh goodness what is that 12 years now uh oh goodness what is that 12 years now uh 12 to 13 years and specifically in the 12 to 13 years and specifically in the 12 to 13 years and specifically in the trying to help solve the leadership trying to help solve the leadership trying to help solve the leadership development issue for development issue for development issue for um a little over 10 of those years um a little over 10 of those years um a little over 10 of those years okay that so that's what I want to tap okay that so that's what I want to tap okay that so that's what I want to tap into because you have a lot of into because you have a lot of into because you have a lot of experience in leadership development and experience in leadership development and experience in leadership development and uh right now the people listening to our uh right now the people listening to our uh right now the people listening to our audience you know our audience consists audience you know our audience consists audience you know our audience consists of communication directors and certainly of communication directors and certainly of communication directors and certainly other staff people uh inside of a church other staff people uh inside of a church other staff people uh inside of a church but for the most part com directors but but for the most part com directors but but for the most part com directors but so let's talk a little bit about that so let's talk a little bit about that so let's talk a little bit about that because Bart you were saying earlier on because Bart you were saying earlier on because Bart you were saying earlier on this before we got you know hit the this before we got you know hit the this before we got you know hit the record button that record button that record button that sometimes you know uh if you're in the sometimes you know uh if you're in the sometimes you know uh if you're in the ministry side you're kind of expected to ministry side you're kind of expected to ministry side you're kind of expected to build a team it's just what you do right build a team it's just what you do right build a team it's just what you do right you know but when you're on the com side you know but when you're on the com side you know but when you're on the com side or maybe the support side you don't or maybe the support side you don't or maybe the support side you don't always always always or don't always focus on building a team or don't always focus on building a team or don't always focus on building a team but I'd like to talk a little bit about but I'd like to talk a little bit about but I'd like to talk a little bit about the leadership structure how do how do the leadership structure how do how do the leadership structure how do how do com directors work with senior com directors work with senior com directors work with senior leadership and trying to get their leadership and trying to get their leadership and trying to get their message across or what are the what are message across or what are the what are message across or what are the what are the things that you have seen or the things that you have seen or the things that you have seen or certainly the pain points that you've certainly the pain points that you've certainly the pain points that you've helped address when it comes to working helped address when it comes to working helped address when it comes to working with leadership yeah absolutely well it with leadership yeah absolutely well it with leadership yeah absolutely well it really depends on the church and often really depends on the church and often really depends on the church and often depends on how the senior pastor is depends on how the senior pastor is depends on how the senior pastor is wired so if you have a senior pastor who wired so if you have a senior pastor who wired so if you have a senior pastor who and this is usually the case not always and this is usually the case not always and this is usually the case not always the case but usually who is full of the case but usually who is full of the case but usually who is full of ideas who is a Content machine very uh ideas who is a Content machine very uh ideas who is a Content machine very uh strong in you know content development strong in you know content development strong in you know content development from sermons to podcasts to writing

from sermons to podcasts to writing from sermons to podcasts to writing um often the the church comms person is um often the the church comms person is um often the the church comms person is kind of the you know I don't know if kind of the you know I don't know if kind of the you know I don't know if you're watching this or if you're you're watching this or if you're you're watching this or if you're listening to it if you're watching Joe listening to it if you're watching Joe listening to it if you're watching Joe I'm kind of like running around with a I'm kind of like running around with a I'm kind of like running around with a bucket in my hands like just trying to bucket in my hands like just trying to bucket in my hands like just trying to catch it all and it makes sense of it catch it all and it makes sense of it catch it all and it makes sense of it all and um you know really package it in all and um you know really package it in all and um you know really package it in a way that makes sense to move the a way that makes sense to move the a way that makes sense to move the mission of the Church forward but if mission of the Church forward but if mission of the Church forward but if you're in a setting where maybe the you're in a setting where maybe the you're in a setting where maybe the senior pastors more operationally senior pastors more operationally senior pastors more operationally focused or maybe you follow more of a focused or maybe you follow more of a focused or maybe you follow more of a liturgical setting where that content liturgical setting where that content liturgical setting where that content calendar is you know already mapped out calendar is you know already mapped out calendar is you know already mapped out your role might be more in that you know your role might be more in that you know your role might be more in that you know branding and and growth area how do we branding and and growth area how do we branding and and growth area how do we bring more people in the door bring more people in the door bring more people in the door um so I think those are usually the two um so I think those are usually the two um so I think those are usually the two different kind of categories that I see different kind of categories that I see different kind of categories that I see Church comms people focus on one is more Church comms people focus on one is more Church comms people focus on one is more of that content development side where of that content development side where of that content development side where the pastor has more of a platform or the the pastor has more of a platform or the the pastor has more of a platform or the church has more of a platform and it's church has more of a platform and it's church has more of a platform and it's more about content packaging and more about content packaging and more about content packaging and distribution and then on the other hand distribution and then on the other hand distribution and then on the other hand uh it's more of a traditional marketing uh it's more of a traditional marketing uh it's more of a traditional marketing approach where it's you know how do we approach where it's you know how do we approach where it's you know how do we really expand and get the word out to really expand and get the word out to really expand and get the word out to bring more people in our doors and then bring more people in our doors and then bring more people in our doors and then further engage them in their you know further engage them in their you know further engage them in their you know discipleship Journey discipleship Journey discipleship Journey um now most of the time the church comes um now most of the time the church comes um now most of the time the church comes person is expected to wear all of those person is expected to wear all of those person is expected to wear all of those hats yeah but in my experience hats yeah but in my experience hats yeah but in my experience um those are kind of the two different um those are kind of the two different um those are kind of the two different categories where the focus points are categories where the focus points are categories where the focus points are depending on where that church or that depending on where that church or that depending on where that church or that senior pastor Falls senior pastor Falls senior pastor Falls you know it's it is interesting you've you know it's it is interesting you've you know it's it is interesting you've got to really tune into your senior got to really tune into your senior got to really tune into your senior leader and and know how they're wired leader and and know how they're wired leader and and know how they're wired and uh ask questions I'm always and uh ask questions I'm always and uh ask questions I'm always recommending that you just gotta learn

recommending that you just gotta learn recommending that you just gotta learn how you know what do they want because how you know what do they want because how you know what do they want because you're there to to to do a job but you're there to to to do a job but you're there to to to do a job but you're there to also serve them and and you're there to also serve them and and you're there to also serve them and and certainly I know that I have run across certainly I know that I have run across certainly I know that I have run across senior leaders who are older than me and senior leaders who are older than me and senior leaders who are older than me and have had my challenges what kind of have had my challenges what kind of have had my challenges what kind of challenges have you had in your in your challenges have you had in your in your challenges have you had in your in your career in doing working with uh more you career in doing working with uh more you career in doing working with uh more you know I guess all I become older older know I guess all I become older older know I guess all I become older older wiserable wiser leaders you know how wiserable wiser leaders you know how wiserable wiser leaders you know how have you how have you navigated those have you how have you navigated those have you how have you navigated those yeah that's a great question yeah that's a great question yeah that's a great question um yeah I've usually been in my career um yeah I've usually been in my career um yeah I've usually been in my career so far I've well not anymore I I feel so far I've well not anymore I I feel so far I've well not anymore I I feel like I had a realization about a year like I had a realization about a year like I had a realization about a year and a half ago where I was like I need and a half ago where I was like I need and a half ago where I was like I need to stop saying that I'm usually the to stop saying that I'm usually the to stop saying that I'm usually the youngest in the room because that is not youngest in the room because that is not youngest in the room because that is not the truth anymore the truth anymore the truth anymore um but so far in my career up until um but so far in my career up until um but so far in my career up until about a year and a half ago about a year and a half ago about a year and a half ago um realized that I was typically one of um realized that I was typically one of um realized that I was typically one of the youngest in the room and so um when the youngest in the room and so um when the youngest in the room and so um when you're especially in church you're especially in church you're especially in church communication it is such a your sphere communication it is such a your sphere communication it is such a your sphere of influence is so big and so this is of influence is so big and so this is of influence is so big and so this is what I really want Church comes if you what I really want Church comes if you what I really want Church comes if you don't take anything away from this don't take anything away from this don't take anything away from this conversation besides this like it's that conversation besides this like it's that conversation besides this like it's that your sphere of influence as a church your sphere of influence as a church your sphere of influence as a church Communicator is way bigger than you Communicator is way bigger than you Communicator is way bigger than you think think think and influence doesn't have anything to and influence doesn't have anything to and influence doesn't have anything to do with the title it doesn't have do with the title it doesn't have do with the title it doesn't have anything to do with how many direct anything to do with how many direct anything to do with how many direct reports you have it really has to do reports you have it really has to do reports you have it really has to do with your responsibility and when as a with your responsibility and when as a with your responsibility and when as a church marketer or a church Communicator church marketer or a church Communicator church marketer or a church Communicator your responsibility is to move the your responsibility is to move the your responsibility is to move the mission forward and all of the different mission forward and all of the different mission forward and all of the different content or marketing areas so from content or marketing areas so from content or marketing areas so from websites to social media to

websites to social media to websites to social media to um you know signage to sometimes even um you know signage to sometimes even um you know signage to sometimes even just the whole experience from the time just the whole experience from the time just the whole experience from the time that the person pulls in the parking lot that the person pulls in the parking lot that the person pulls in the parking lot to when they pull away in the parking to when they pull away in the parking to when they pull away in the parking lot what is that experience often it's lot what is that experience often it's lot what is that experience often it's the church Communications person who is the church Communications person who is the church Communications person who is thinking about that so when we think thinking about that so when we think thinking about that so when we think about oh well I'm just over here or I'm about oh well I'm just over here or I'm about oh well I'm just over here or I'm just a one-person team or I don't have just a one-person team or I don't have just a one-person team or I don't have any direct reports uh really what I want any direct reports uh really what I want any direct reports uh really what I want to encourage and challenge you in is to to encourage and challenge you in is to to encourage and challenge you in is to really think about that sphere of really think about that sphere of really think about that sphere of influence which is into your whole influence which is into your whole influence which is into your whole Community your sphere of influence as a Community your sphere of influence as a Community your sphere of influence as a church marketer Church Communicator church marketer Church Communicator church marketer Church Communicator really impacts the entire community that really impacts the entire community that really impacts the entire community that you are working to reach with the gospel you are working to reach with the gospel you are working to reach with the gospel within your church and so that means within your church and so that means within your church and so that means that you have to work with that you have to work with that you have to work with multi-generational multi-generational multi-generational um people that means you know people who um people that means you know people who um people that means you know people who are very different from you people who are very different from you people who are very different from you people who have different experience from you and have different experience from you and have different experience from you and so what I would encourage um regardless so what I would encourage um regardless so what I would encourage um regardless of what your age is as you're working of what your age is as you're working of what your age is as you're working with multi-generational teams one is to with multi-generational teams one is to with multi-generational teams one is to always stay curious so I think when we always stay curious so I think when we always stay curious so I think when we come in with like a this is the right come in with like a this is the right come in with like a this is the right way to do it that often puts people on way to do it that often puts people on way to do it that often puts people on their heels no matter what age we are their heels no matter what age we are their heels no matter what age we are and but when we come with hey I've got and but when we come with hey I've got and but when we come with hey I've got this idea and I wanted to get your take this idea and I wanted to get your take this idea and I wanted to get your take on it what do you think if we did XYZ on it what do you think if we did XYZ on it what do you think if we did XYZ that is often a really great way to help that is often a really great way to help that is often a really great way to help bring people along in the journey and bring people along in the journey and bring people along in the journey and then not only do we learn things because then not only do we learn things because then not only do we learn things because we just don't know what we don't know we just don't know what we don't know we just don't know what we don't know but we learn things along the way but we but we learn things along the way but we but we learn things along the way but we also allow that person to have input and also allow that person to have input and also allow that person to have input and then when people have input that then when people have input that then when people have input that furthers their buy-in and so um that furthers their buy-in and so um that furthers their buy-in and so um that would be my biggest piece of advice is

would be my biggest piece of advice is would be my biggest piece of advice is when we're working with when we're working with when we're working with multi-generational teams is to stay multi-generational teams is to stay multi-generational teams is to stay curious and uh and really bring people curious and uh and really bring people curious and uh and really bring people along on the journey as you're you know along on the journey as you're you know along on the journey as you're you know bringing up new ideas or different bringing up new ideas or different bringing up new ideas or different solutions that'll help you solutions that'll help you solutions that'll help you um immensely along the way to make those um immensely along the way to make those um immensely along the way to make those relational deposits before you have to relational deposits before you have to relational deposits before you have to you know make some of those withdraws you know make some of those withdraws you know make some of those withdraws and make those changes that can and make those changes that can and make those changes that can sometimes be a lot for people yeah and I sometimes be a lot for people yeah and I sometimes be a lot for people yeah and I think if you're out of sync think if you're out of sync think if you're out of sync with your senior leader that's a great with your senior leader that's a great with your senior leader that's a great way you got to work hard to get in sync way you got to work hard to get in sync way you got to work hard to get in sync with that senior leader right because with that senior leader right because with that senior leader right because it's not their job to get in sync with it's not their job to get in sync with it's not their job to get in sync with you maybe maybe it is a little bit but you maybe maybe it is a little bit but you maybe maybe it is a little bit but we won't go there you you control you we won't go there you you control you we won't go there you you control you can control right so that's a really can control right so that's a really can control right so that's a really great idea to help get in sync with with great idea to help get in sync with with great idea to help get in sync with with that senior leader and to you know make that senior leader and to you know make that senior leader and to you know make some recommendations and ask those some recommendations and ask those some recommendations and ask those questions and start that dialogue questions and start that dialogue questions and start that dialogue because that's the only way you're gonna because that's the only way you're gonna because that's the only way you're gonna you're gonna move closer right yeah and you're gonna move closer right yeah and you're gonna move closer right yeah and Jason that's a great point because most Jason that's a great point because most Jason that's a great point because most of the time where I feel like uh Church of the time where I feel like uh Church of the time where I feel like uh Church comms people often get the most comms people often get the most comms people often get the most frustrated is when they're working for a frustrated is when they're working for a frustrated is when they're working for a senior leader who's constantly coming up senior leader who's constantly coming up senior leader who's constantly coming up with new ideas or changing things with new ideas or changing things with new ideas or changing things but the best way to get ahead of that is but the best way to get ahead of that is but the best way to get ahead of that is to beat them to the punch and so uh when to beat them to the punch and so uh when to beat them to the punch and so uh when you are proactively bringing ideas or you are proactively bringing ideas or you are proactively bringing ideas or you're looking at data and finding you're looking at data and finding you're looking at data and finding Solutions and bringing solutions for how Solutions and bringing solutions for how Solutions and bringing solutions for how you should shift or change or try new you should shift or change or try new you should shift or change or try new things you're going to get ahead of that things you're going to get ahead of that things you're going to get ahead of that senior leader because if they're if senior leader because if they're if senior leader because if they're if you're feeling like they're constantly you're feeling like they're constantly you're feeling like they're constantly bringing you ideas there's there's a bringing you ideas there's there's a bringing you ideas there's there's a communication gap there communication gap there communication gap there um maybe they don't have the visibility

um maybe they don't have the visibility um maybe they don't have the visibility into all of the things that you're doing into all of the things that you're doing into all of the things that you're doing or maybe they haven't been shown the or maybe they haven't been shown the or maybe they haven't been shown the results that all of your great work has results that all of your great work has results that all of your great work has done and so I feel like that's often done and so I feel like that's often done and so I feel like that's often where the resentment can come in is it's where the resentment can come in is it's where the resentment can come in is it's like I'm doing all of these things and like I'm doing all of these things and like I'm doing all of these things and you don't see me and you're just you don't see me and you're just you don't see me and you're just continually dumping things on my plate continually dumping things on my plate continually dumping things on my plate but we can lead up that's that phrase of but we can lead up that's that phrase of but we can lead up that's that phrase of you know leading up to our senior you know leading up to our senior you know leading up to our senior leaders especially if they're very ideas leaders especially if they're very ideas leaders especially if they're very ideas or creatively oriented when we bring or creatively oriented when we bring or creatively oriented when we bring them those ideas or Solutions we get them those ideas or Solutions we get them those ideas or Solutions we get ahead of them that just helps them take ahead of them that just helps them take ahead of them that just helps them take a deep breath and go okay somebody else a deep breath and go okay somebody else a deep breath and go okay somebody else is thinking about this more than me is thinking about this more than me is thinking about this more than me which is really what typically in my which is really what typically in my which is really what typically in my experience what they want to see yeah experience what they want to see yeah experience what they want to see yeah and I'll tell you a b and being the guy and I'll tell you a b and being the guy and I'll tell you a b and being the guy that was the one working you know that was the one working you know that was the one working you know serving up now I'm kind of the other way serving up now I'm kind of the other way serving up now I'm kind of the other way I'm not I'm old I'm an old guy so I'm on I'm not I'm old I'm an old guy so I'm on I'm not I'm old I'm an old guy so I'm on the other the other the other sidewise Jason is wise sidewise Jason is wise sidewise Jason is wise thank you he's well oiled we'll say that thank you he's well oiled we'll say that thank you he's well oiled we'll say that he'll have another word for it but I am he'll have another word for it but I am he'll have another word for it but I am when I look at that stamp when I I just when I look at that stamp when I I just when I look at that stamp when I I just for for all of you who are who you're for for all of you who are who you're for for all of you who are who you're younger than me who are serving leading younger than me who are serving leading younger than me who are serving leading up I'll tell you I don't always know up I'll tell you I don't always know up I'll tell you I don't always know what my team is doing we got a big team what my team is doing we got a big team what my team is doing we got a big team so when they're sharing stuff with me I so when they're sharing stuff with me I so when they're sharing stuff with me I am so encouraged am so encouraged am so encouraged I you know otherwise I have no idea how I you know otherwise I have no idea how I you know otherwise I have no idea how am I supposed to know what all the am I supposed to know what all the am I supposed to know what all the things that people are working on unless things that people are working on unless things that people are working on unless they bring it to my attention I might they bring it to my attention I might they bring it to my attention I might stumble across it but don't make me have stumble across it but don't make me have stumble across it but don't make me have to just coincidentally stumble across it to just coincidentally stumble across it to just coincidentally stumble across it bring it to me because now we can bring it to me because now we can bring it to me because now we can celebrate together and that gives me a

celebrate together and that gives me a celebrate together and that gives me a lot more confidence and Trust in what lot more confidence and Trust in what lot more confidence and Trust in what you're doing so just word of advice on you're doing so just word of advice on you're doing so just word of advice on that side of it Bart yeah Jason you that side of it Bart yeah Jason you that side of it Bart yeah Jason you actually you derailed my train of actually you derailed my train of actually you derailed my train of thought there for a second was something thought there for a second was something thought there for a second was something you said and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm you said and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm you said and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna Compound on that and then ask gonna Compound on that and then ask gonna Compound on that and then ask Holly another question the reality is I Holly another question the reality is I Holly another question the reality is I think in a lot of churches and the think in a lot of churches and the think in a lot of churches and the larger the church I think the more larger the church I think the more larger the church I think the more common this scenario is and that is the common this scenario is and that is the common this scenario is and that is the communications director often is the communications director often is the communications director often is the recipient of a lot of the the workload recipient of a lot of the the workload recipient of a lot of the the workload or what have you that the that the or what have you that the that the or what have you that the that the creative senior pastor or senior creative senior pastor or senior creative senior pastor or senior leadership team is moving down the leadership team is moving down the leadership team is moving down the pipeline but they are often several pipeline but they are often several pipeline but they are often several layers of relationship removed from that layers of relationship removed from that layers of relationship removed from that leader and so they don't always even leader and so they don't always even leader and so they don't always even have the opportunity to have them those have the opportunity to have them those have the opportunity to have them those types of conversations because I you types of conversations because I you types of conversations because I you know a lot of churches I know the the know a lot of churches I know the the know a lot of churches I know the the senior pastor is giving the direction senior pastor is giving the direction senior pastor is giving the direction but the communications director reports but the communications director reports but the communications director reports directly to the creative Pastor or to directly to the creative Pastor or to directly to the creative Pastor or to the executive pastor and said they don't the executive pastor and said they don't the executive pastor and said they don't always even have they don't even have always even have they don't even have always even have they don't even have that that that um that line of communication so that um that line of communication so that um that line of communication so that they can speak back to those things they can speak back to those things they can speak back to those things Holly I want you to process that in Holly I want you to process that in Holly I want you to process that in context of what you just said but also context of what you just said but also context of what you just said but also the opposite scenario of what you just the opposite scenario of what you just the opposite scenario of what you just shared is frustration on the part of shared is frustration on the part of shared is frustration on the part of comms directors who have who they comms directors who have who they comms directors who have who they themselves have ideas about how they as themselves have ideas about how they as themselves have ideas about how they as a church can be more effective but they a church can be more effective but they a church can be more effective but they can't get the buy-in of their senior can't get the buy-in of their senior can't get the buy-in of their senior leaders because they're senior leaders leaders because they're senior leaders leaders because they're senior leaders are less creative or are breaks guys

are less creative or are breaks guys are less creative or are breaks guys versus gas guys right they're always versus gas guys right they're always versus gas guys right they're always like well let's hold on let's look at like well let's hold on let's look at like well let's hold on let's look at you know they're they're they're tight you know they're they're they're tight you know they're they're they're tight on the budget they're tight on risk and on the budget they're tight on risk and on the budget they're tight on risk and they don't want to explore new and they don't want to explore new and they don't want to explore new and different ideas going back to this different ideas going back to this different ideas going back to this concept of leading up and having those concept of leading up and having those concept of leading up and having those sometimes maybe hard conversations or at sometimes maybe hard conversations or at sometimes maybe hard conversations or at least direct conversations you know how least direct conversations you know how least direct conversations you know how do you how do you get real practical do you how do you get real practical do you how do you get real practical about coaching someone in that comms about coaching someone in that comms about coaching someone in that comms director's seat to navigate those types director's seat to navigate those types director's seat to navigate those types of relationships and those types of of relationships and those types of of relationships and those types of conversations with their senior conversations with their senior conversations with their senior leadership team yeah so great question leadership team yeah so great question leadership team yeah so great question one I would say one I would say one I would say um just because you don't have the um just because you don't have the um just because you don't have the in-person in-person in-person ability to talk to your senior leader as ability to talk to your senior leader as ability to talk to your senior leader as much as you would like to we have so much as you would like to we have so much as you would like to we have so many ways that we can communicate so I many ways that we can communicate so I many ways that we can communicate so I would encourage you just to send maybe would encourage you just to send maybe would encourage you just to send maybe it depends on how fast your organization it depends on how fast your organization it depends on how fast your organization moves but what would it look like to moves but what would it look like to moves but what would it look like to send a weekly update to that senior send a weekly update to that senior send a weekly update to that senior leader or your leader creative director leader or your leader creative director leader or your leader creative director executive Pastor copy the senior leader executive Pastor copy the senior leader executive Pastor copy the senior leader as a senior pastor right and just update as a senior pastor right and just update as a senior pastor right and just update them on all of the things that you them on all of the things that you them on all of the things that you worked on that week what's working worked on that week what's working worked on that week what's working what's not what results are you seeing what's not what results are you seeing what's not what results are you seeing what are you hearing and even if they what are you hearing and even if they what are you hearing and even if they never respond you've taken this step to never respond you've taken this step to never respond you've taken this step to proactively communicate because I think proactively communicate because I think proactively communicate because I think a misconception is Jason you touched on a misconception is Jason you touched on a misconception is Jason you touched on this like especially Frontline employees this like especially Frontline employees this like especially Frontline employees think that the senior leader knows think that the senior leader knows think that the senior leader knows everything because you're supposed to everything because you're supposed to everything because you're supposed to know everything right like that's like know everything right like that's like know everything right like that's like the mentality especially those who have the mentality especially those who have the mentality especially those who have never been in leadership before but what never been in leadership before but what never been in leadership before but what we know you know I'm on our executive we know you know I'm on our executive we know you know I'm on our executive team here it's I know it I have to I'm team here it's I know it I have to I'm team here it's I know it I have to I'm constantly trying to keep up with what's

constantly trying to keep up with what's constantly trying to keep up with what's happening on the front lines of my team happening on the front lines of my team happening on the front lines of my team because our visibility it gets cloudier because our visibility it gets cloudier because our visibility it gets cloudier and cloudier the higher up on the organ and cloudier the higher up on the organ and cloudier the higher up on the organ chart we are and so to really help we chart we are and so to really help we chart we are and so to really help we can help Empower our senior leaders by can help Empower our senior leaders by can help Empower our senior leaders by you know moving that communication you know moving that communication you know moving that communication upline in by sending a weekly email or upline in by sending a weekly email or upline in by sending a weekly email or maybe it's a maybe it's a video update maybe it's a maybe it's a video update maybe it's a maybe it's a video update you know there's so many great tools out you know there's so many great tools out you know there's so many great tools out there free tools to make a little video there free tools to make a little video there free tools to make a little video and send it to the team or in a slack and send it to the team or in a slack and send it to the team or in a slack Channel whatever that might look like Channel whatever that might look like Channel whatever that might look like but take that initiative don't wait for but take that initiative don't wait for but take that initiative don't wait for it to be asked of you proactively give it to be asked of you proactively give it to be asked of you proactively give that information which kind of goes to that information which kind of goes to that information which kind of goes to my next point and my next point and my next point and um you know I'm Bart I'm a little bit I um you know I'm Bart I'm a little bit I um you know I'm Bart I'm a little bit I don't know I don't want to get anybody don't know I don't want to get anybody don't know I don't want to get anybody in trouble but I'm like just try it like in trouble but I'm like just try it like in trouble but I'm like just try it like don't you know ask for forgiveness later don't you know ask for forgiveness later don't you know ask for forgiveness later like if it doesn't cost money which like if it doesn't cost money which like if it doesn't cost money which there are very I feel like um yes ads there are very I feel like um yes ads there are very I feel like um yes ads cost money Billboards cost money you cost money Billboards cost money you cost money Billboards cost money you know um printing things costs money but know um printing things costs money but know um printing things costs money but there are so many uh things that are in there are so many uh things that are in there are so many uh things that are in the creative and marketing world that the creative and marketing world that the creative and marketing world that don't cost money like starting a podcast don't cost money like starting a podcast don't cost money like starting a podcast or you know or very minimal money right or you know or very minimal money right or you know or very minimal money right like maybe it costs you ten dollars you like maybe it costs you ten dollars you like maybe it costs you ten dollars you know a month to host it it somewhere or know a month to host it it somewhere or know a month to host it it somewhere or doing a video video series and posting doing a video video series and posting doing a video video series and posting it on social media so just to go ahead it on social media so just to go ahead it on social media so just to go ahead and lead with that don't ask for and lead with that don't ask for and lead with that don't ask for permission ask for forgiveness and that permission ask for forgiveness and that permission ask for forgiveness and that is uh really where I think that a lot of is uh really where I think that a lot of is uh really where I think that a lot of successful marketers or Communicator successful marketers or Communicator successful marketers or Communicator communicators is because they're just communicators is because they're just communicators is because they're just constantly trying things and don't wait constantly trying things and don't wait constantly trying things and don't wait on permission to do so so obviously if on permission to do so so obviously if on permission to do so so obviously if budget's involved different story but uh

budget's involved different story but uh budget's involved different story but uh yeah I'm just not involved just go ahead yeah I'm just not involved just go ahead yeah I'm just not involved just go ahead and try things okay don't surprise don't and try things okay don't surprise don't and try things okay don't surprise don't surprise your senior pastor with a surprise your senior pastor with a surprise your senior pastor with a billboard on the side of the highway billboard on the side of the highway billboard on the side of the highway when he's driving to the office next when he's driving to the office next when he's driving to the office next that would be that would be bad that's a that would be that would be bad that's a that would be that would be bad that's a good idea well you know if any of you do good idea well you know if any of you do good idea well you know if any of you do take Holly's advice here and you end up take Holly's advice here and you end up take Holly's advice here and you end up needing employment she's got some needing employment she's got some needing employment she's got some connections yeah connections yeah connections yeah she's got some connections at she's got some connections at she's got some connections at vanderbloomen and we can get you in a vanderbloomen and we can get you in a vanderbloomen and we can get you in a search process and hopefully find you search process and hopefully find you search process and hopefully find you another role somewhere else yeah sorry another role somewhere else yeah sorry another role somewhere else yeah sorry that that all comes on Holly that that all comes on Holly that that all comes on Holly um Holly I I love that I love that very um Holly I I love that I love that very um Holly I I love that I love that very proud practical advice that you're proud practical advice that you're proud practical advice that you're you're giving you're giving you're giving um and I have done that myself in in um and I have done that myself in in um and I have done that myself in in times and places where times and places where times and places where um I have just said I I have an instinct um I have just said I I have an instinct um I have just said I I have an instinct I have a gut instinct that doing this I have a gut instinct that doing this I have a gut instinct that doing this this way is going to be better than the this way is going to be better than the this way is going to be better than the way we've been doing it and the the way we've been doing it and the the way we've been doing it and the the chain of command is is so complex to get chain of command is is so complex to get chain of command is is so complex to get permission or to run it by all the permission or to run it by all the permission or to run it by all the powers that be to do it and I've just powers that be to do it and I've just powers that be to do it and I've just done it and you know I've got to have done it and you know I've got to have done it and you know I've got to have I've got to have a lot of confidence and I've got to have a lot of confidence and I've got to have a lot of confidence and conviction to be able to do it and then conviction to be able to do it and then conviction to be able to do it and then I've also got to be able to you know I've also got to be able to you know I've also got to be able to you know stand in front of the room and explain stand in front of the room and explain stand in front of the room and explain why it bombed if it bombed right so you why it bombed if it bombed right so you why it bombed if it bombed right so you you've got to be you've got to be ready you've got to be you've got to be ready you've got to be you've got to be ready to to to um to have both conversations you know um to have both conversations you know um to have both conversations you know it let's all celebrate that we did it let's all celebrate that we did it let's all celebrate that we did something that that gave us a victory or something that that gave us a victory or something that that gave us a victory or hey we did something and it flopped um hey we did something and it flopped um hey we did something and it flopped um you got to know the culture of your you got to know the culture of your you got to know the culture of your church and you've got to know and church and you've got to know and church and you've got to know and understand the culture of your understand the culture of your understand the culture of your leadership team too to know you know leadership team too to know you know leadership team too to know you know what kind of risks to take in those what kind of risks to take in those what kind of risks to take in those places be smart about it pray through it places be smart about it pray through it places be smart about it pray through it and uh yeah and call Holly yeah well

and uh yeah and call Holly yeah well and uh yeah and call Holly yeah well here's some language to use so if you here's some language to use so if you here's some language to use so if you follow my advice and it doesn't work I follow my advice and it doesn't work I follow my advice and it doesn't work I always say we don't win or we lose we always say we don't win or we lose we always say we don't win or we lose we win or we learn and so if you're win or we learn and so if you're win or we learn and so if you're constantly leading with a spirit of constantly leading with a spirit of constantly leading with a spirit of curiosity and learning and in that curiosity and learning and in that curiosity and learning and in that weekly update it's here's what I learned weekly update it's here's what I learned weekly update it's here's what I learned this week then they won't be surprised this week then they won't be surprised this week then they won't be surprised when you stand up and go okay guys you when you stand up and go okay guys you when you stand up and go okay guys you know there's one of those other crazy know there's one of those other crazy know there's one of those other crazy ideas I thought that this podcast was ideas I thought that this podcast was ideas I thought that this podcast was going to work it didn't and here's what going to work it didn't and here's what going to work it didn't and here's what I learned and so now I'm going to do I learned and so now I'm going to do I learned and so now I'm going to do this instead right when we lead with this instead right when we lead with this instead right when we lead with that spirit for ourselves not only does that spirit for ourselves not only does that spirit for ourselves not only does it give us so much more freedom to take it give us so much more freedom to take it give us so much more freedom to take risks and try new things because we're risks and try new things because we're risks and try new things because we're not losing we're just learning but it not losing we're just learning but it not losing we're just learning but it also helps us again lead up and show our also helps us again lead up and show our also helps us again lead up and show our leaders that we're just trying to learn leaders that we're just trying to learn leaders that we're just trying to learn all the time of what works and what's all the time of what works and what's all the time of what works and what's going to move our mission forward well going to move our mission forward well going to move our mission forward well it is and it's failing forward right so it is and it's failing forward right so it is and it's failing forward right so I love it as a leader that when when my I love it as a leader that when when my I love it as a leader that when when my team is is trying things and even if it team is is trying things and even if it team is is trying things and even if it falls flat unlike I celebrate that way falls flat unlike I celebrate that way falls flat unlike I celebrate that way to go you know instead of just being to go you know instead of just being to go you know instead of just being neutral you tried something and hey neutral you tried something and hey neutral you tried something and hey let's get it let's try one more time let's get it let's try one more time let's get it let's try one more time right because eventually we're going to right because eventually we're going to right because eventually we're going to get it right get it right get it right um another question for you and and um another question for you and and um another question for you and and there are there are those situations there are there are those situations there are there are those situations where com directors uh or anybody that's where com directors uh or anybody that's where com directors uh or anybody that's on the comms team gets to work with on the comms team gets to work with on the comms team gets to work with uh volunteers and I just use this today uh volunteers and I just use this today uh volunteers and I just use this today I had a call with the church that they I had a call with the church that they I had a call with the church that they were asking us about you know doing were asking us about you know doing were asking us about you know doing things in fact she said I've tried to things in fact she said I've tried to things in fact she said I've tried to get my senior leaders to blog uh because get my senior leaders to blog uh because get my senior leaders to blog uh because they said we want to protect what's on they said we want to protect what's on they said we want to protect what's on our website so I said okay blog and they

our website so I said okay blog and they our website so I said okay blog and they say we don't have time yep going okay say we don't have time yep going okay say we don't have time yep going okay that's adult it's a catch-22. they want that's adult it's a catch-22. they want that's adult it's a catch-22. they want to control the messaging yet they won't to control the messaging yet they won't to control the messaging yet they won't give you any words to control the give you any words to control the give you any words to control the messaging so my advice to her was why messaging so my advice to her was why messaging so my advice to her was why not not not um grab the sermon um grab the sermon um grab the sermon transcribe it and then go find a transcribe it and then go find a transcribe it and then go find a volunteer who is passionate about volunteer who is passionate about volunteer who is passionate about writing in your church and just give writing in your church and just give writing in your church and just give them some direction yeah so my question them some direction yeah so my question them some direction yeah so my question to you is how to you is how to you is how if you're not really much of a leader if you're not really much of a leader if you're not really much of a leader but you you know you're in the spot how but you you know you're in the spot how but you you know you're in the spot how do you lead other volunteers that are do you lead other volunteers that are do you lead other volunteers that are more uh they're on the same level more uh they're on the same level more uh they're on the same level they're you know you're actually they're you know you're actually they're you know you're actually probably leading them so you might be probably leading them so you might be probably leading them so you might be above them but any advice on how you above them but any advice on how you above them but any advice on how you lead somebody who's a volunteer well I lead somebody who's a volunteer well I lead somebody who's a volunteer well I think there's some specific challenges think there's some specific challenges think there's some specific challenges um about leading volunteers specifically um about leading volunteers specifically um about leading volunteers specifically in the church cons or marketing space in the church cons or marketing space in the church cons or marketing space and that is that it's really difficult and that is that it's really difficult and that is that it's really difficult to teach well actually let me rephrase to teach well actually let me rephrase to teach well actually let me rephrase that it's difficult to catch a brand that it's difficult to catch a brand that it's difficult to catch a brand voice if it hasn't been clearly voice if it hasn't been clearly voice if it hasn't been clearly articulated whereas like a children's articulated whereas like a children's articulated whereas like a children's volunteer doesn't need to understand how volunteer doesn't need to understand how volunteer doesn't need to understand how to write in the voice of a brand or a to write in the voice of a brand or a to write in the voice of a brand or a person they just need to make sure that person they just need to make sure that person they just need to make sure that the kid is safe right so there's some the kid is safe right so there's some the kid is safe right so there's some nuances that go into uh being a nuances that go into uh being a nuances that go into uh being a volunteer on the church com side and so volunteer on the church com side and so volunteer on the church com side and so what I would say for every Church comms what I would say for every Church comms what I would say for every Church comms person make sure that you've got a person make sure that you've got a person make sure that you've got a really strong Playbook so for example really strong Playbook so for example really strong Playbook so for example um do you have those brand guidelines um do you have those brand guidelines um do you have those brand guidelines that are easy and simple and that you

that are easy and simple and that you that are easy and simple and that you can hand anyone at any time and they can hand anyone at any time and they can hand anyone at any time and they will understand these are our brand will understand these are our brand will understand these are our brand guidelines do you have your brand voice guidelines do you have your brand voice guidelines do you have your brand voice you know written down and articulated do you know written down and articulated do you know written down and articulated do you have your values written down and you have your values written down and you have your values written down and articulated your logos in a spot where articulated your logos in a spot where articulated your logos in a spot where it's easy for people to grab so you're it's easy for people to grab so you're it's easy for people to grab so you're not seeing 20 different versions of it not seeing 20 different versions of it not seeing 20 different versions of it all over the place right so when we can all over the place right so when we can all over the place right so when we can create that communication Playbook then create that communication Playbook then create that communication Playbook then we're able to teach that's when we go we're able to teach that's when we go we're able to teach that's when we go from that culture of cot To Tot and then from that culture of cot To Tot and then from that culture of cot To Tot and then you can replicate yourself across so you can replicate yourself across so you can replicate yourself across so many different volunteers so then you many different volunteers so then you many different volunteers so then you can find that person that's passionate can find that person that's passionate can find that person that's passionate about copywriting or ghost writing or about copywriting or ghost writing or about copywriting or ghost writing or find that person that loves editing find that person that loves editing find that person that loves editing videos or loves you know Instagram and videos or loves you know Instagram and videos or loves you know Instagram and making reels making reels making reels um thank goodness for those people um thank goodness for those people um thank goodness for those people because that is not me because that is not me because that is not me um but like to be able to then you know um but like to be able to then you know um but like to be able to then you know replicate yourself so that you can do replicate yourself so that you can do replicate yourself so that you can do what only you can do you can focus on what only you can do you can focus on what only you can do you can focus on strategy but you're able to disseminate strategy but you're able to disseminate strategy but you're able to disseminate that Playbook to your volunteers and that Playbook to your volunteers and that Playbook to your volunteers and that will help you just save a lot of that will help you just save a lot of that will help you just save a lot of time and heartache and also time and heartache and also time and heartache and also um another thing that's unique about um another thing that's unique about um another thing that's unique about church com volunteers that you don't church com volunteers that you don't church com volunteers that you don't have to you don't run into in other have to you don't run into in other have to you don't run into in other departments is kind of that personal departments is kind of that personal departments is kind of that personal creative creative creative uh giving feedback right so like if uh giving feedback right so like if uh giving feedback right so like if someone writes something someone writes something someone writes something and it's really bad it can be and it's really bad it can be and it's really bad it can be uncomfortable to say thank you so much uncomfortable to say thank you so much uncomfortable to say thank you so much volunteer for spending 20 hours on this volunteer for spending 20 hours on this volunteer for spending 20 hours on this piece of content and we're not going to piece of content and we're not going to piece of content and we're not going to use it right but maybe we didn't give use it right but maybe we didn't give use it right but maybe we didn't give them the right direction and so when we them the right direction and so when we them the right direction and so when we have a clear Playbook that says this is

have a clear Playbook that says this is have a clear Playbook that says this is exactly what we're looking for this is exactly what we're looking for this is exactly what we're looking for this is how many words this you know whatever it how many words this you know whatever it how many words this you know whatever it might be then we're holding them might be then we're holding them might be then we're holding them accountable to that Playbook and it's accountable to that Playbook and it's accountable to that Playbook and it's not personal right not personal right not personal right um so those are a couple of tips I think um so those are a couple of tips I think um so those are a couple of tips I think that are specifically that are specifically that are specifically geared towards what it looks like to geared towards what it looks like to geared towards what it looks like to lead Volunteers in a comms or a lead Volunteers in a comms or a lead Volunteers in a comms or a marketing setting that's different from marketing setting that's different from marketing setting that's different from any other department yeah so good and if any other department yeah so good and if any other department yeah so good and if you can do that uh hold on just a second you can do that uh hold on just a second you can do that uh hold on just a second part if you can do that I tell you you part if you can do that I tell you you part if you can do that I tell you you be your stock goes way high uh because be your stock goes way high uh because be your stock goes way high uh because you you prove that you can lead people you you prove that you can lead people you you prove that you can lead people and and not just and and not just and and not just take it on yourself because if you just take it on yourself because if you just take it on yourself because if you just want to take it on yourself I you know want to take it on yourself I you know want to take it on yourself I you know we can't grow you as a leader yeah but we can't grow you as a leader yeah but we can't grow you as a leader yeah but if you show that you can do that as a if you show that you can do that as a if you show that you can do that as a senior leader I highly value those senior leader I highly value those senior leader I highly value those people that can delegate and prove that people that can delegate and prove that people that can delegate and prove that they can lead a team with very little they can lead a team with very little they can lead a team with very little Direction like they just got it they can Direction like they just got it they can Direction like they just got it they can do it themselves I'm just telling you if do it themselves I'm just telling you if do it themselves I'm just telling you if you can do that your stock goes way up you can do that your stock goes way up you can do that your stock goes way up that's true well that's true leadership that's true well that's true leadership that's true well that's true leadership right that's from going from a doer to a right that's from going from a doer to a right that's from going from a doer to a leader is is that ability it's leader is is that ability it's leader is is that ability it's replicating yourself it's it's finding replicating yourself it's it's finding replicating yourself it's it's finding people that are better than you at doing people that are better than you at doing people that are better than you at doing certain things so that you can focus on certain things so that you can focus on certain things so that you can focus on what only you can do and that's the what only you can do and that's the what only you can do and that's the difference between the doer and the difference between the doer and the difference between the doer and the leader yeah leader yeah leader yeah I was just going to add that actually I was just going to add that actually I was just going to add that actually probably the most comparable Ministry to probably the most comparable Ministry to probably the most comparable Ministry to that in the church would be in the that in the church would be in the that in the church would be in the worship Ministry worship and creative worship Ministry worship and creative worship Ministry worship and creative right yeah and we're not talking about right yeah and we're not talking about right yeah and we're not talking about you know the large mega church that has you know the large mega church that has you know the large mega church that has a professional band that they're paying a professional band that they're paying a professional band that they're paying to be there every week because that's a to be there every week because that's a to be there every week because that's a different type of leadership than being

different type of leadership than being different type of leadership than being a normal-sized church where your worship a normal-sized church where your worship a normal-sized church where your worship band is volunteers yeah and you're band is volunteers yeah and you're band is volunteers yeah and you're having to you're having to you know having to you're having to you know having to you're having to you know discern uh skill levels and commitment discern uh skill levels and commitment discern uh skill levels and commitment levels and then you know performance levels and then you know performance levels and then you know performance quality on the Sunday morning right quality on the Sunday morning right quality on the Sunday morning right because same thing hey dude when you because same thing hey dude when you because same thing hey dude when you play the guitar solo like that it's play the guitar solo like that it's play the guitar solo like that it's really out of bounds we we can't do that really out of bounds we we can't do that really out of bounds we we can't do that right or those harmonies that you're right or those harmonies that you're right or those harmonies that you're singing they just don't work we're not singing they just don't work we're not singing they just don't work we're not going to be able to do it right so and going to be able to do it right so and going to be able to do it right so and you're dealing with you you tend to be you're dealing with you you tend to be you're dealing with you you tend to be dealing with more Melancholy artist type dealing with more Melancholy artist type dealing with more Melancholy artist type people when you're on that creative side people when you're on that creative side people when you're on that creative side which can also be the same case with uh which can also be the same case with uh which can also be the same case with uh with the the marketing communication with the the marketing communication with the the marketing communication side as well 10 people do tend to be a side as well 10 people do tend to be a side as well 10 people do tend to be a little bit more creative and you you little bit more creative and you you little bit more creative and you you know that's where most of my Ministry know that's where most of my Ministry know that's where most of my Ministry background was was in you know creative background was was in you know creative background was was in you know creative and worship and and I've had to have a and worship and and I've had to have a and worship and and I've had to have a lot of those hard conversations and and lot of those hard conversations and and lot of those hard conversations and and it is tough um it's not impossible but I it is tough um it's not impossible but I it is tough um it's not impossible but I think you're on to something there Holly think you're on to something there Holly think you're on to something there Holly you know I think it's micro steps in you know I think it's micro steps in you know I think it's micro steps in those places when you're trying to those places when you're trying to those places when you're trying to replicate yourself you know if you're if replicate yourself you know if you're if replicate yourself you know if you're if you're a worship leader and you're you're a worship leader and you're you're a worship leader and you're trying to develop another worship leader trying to develop another worship leader trying to develop another worship leader in the church you don't give them a in the church you don't give them a in the church you don't give them a whole Sunday morning the first time they whole Sunday morning the first time they whole Sunday morning the first time they lead worship you give them a song to lead worship you give them a song to lead worship you give them a song to lead in your worship set yes and uh and lead in your worship set yes and uh and lead in your worship set yes and uh and so you you walk them into so you you walk them into so you you walk them into um to the opportunities at a level um to the opportunities at a level um to the opportunities at a level that's appropriate for them and the same that's appropriate for them and the same that's appropriate for them and the same thing is true I think if you're building thing is true I think if you're building thing is true I think if you're building a Communications uh Team uh whether it's a Communications uh Team uh whether it's a Communications uh Team uh whether it's you know photographers copywriters you know photographers copywriters you know photographers copywriters graphic designers video editors whatever graphic designers video editors whatever graphic designers video editors whatever it is you know you give them small it is you know you give them small it is you know you give them small pieces you test them you see if they can

pieces you test them you see if they can pieces you test them you see if they can follow instructions that they can follow instructions that they can follow instructions that they can deliver on time if they can deliver what deliver on time if they can deliver what deliver on time if they can deliver what you like and if they don't you coach you like and if they don't you coach you like and if they don't you coach them through it I'm actually doing that them through it I'm actually doing that them through it I'm actually doing that with a a church that I I through with a a church that I I through with a a church that I I through missional marketing I I oversee their missional marketing I I oversee their missional marketing I I oversee their Communications and they've just hired a Communications and they've just hired a Communications and they've just hired a new part-time person on their staff and new part-time person on their staff and new part-time person on their staff and I'm beginning to train that person in I'm beginning to train that person in I'm beginning to train that person in the things we're doing and they're the things we're doing and they're the things we're doing and they're creating social media content and every creating social media content and every creating social media content and every time they create that content I review time they create that content I review time they create that content I review it and I coach them through what I would it and I coach them through what I would it and I coach them through what I would do differently how I would change it how do differently how I would change it how do differently how I would change it how I would make it sharper but also at the I would make it sharper but also at the I would make it sharper but also at the same time complement them on the things same time complement them on the things same time complement them on the things that they nailed right you got this part that they nailed right you got this part that they nailed right you got this part right you you got it right here but right you you got it right here but right you you got it right here but these are some things that you need to these are some things that you need to these are some things that you need to do to make just this a little bit better do to make just this a little bit better do to make just this a little bit better do you understand where I'm coming from do you understand where I'm coming from do you understand where I'm coming from sometimes it's Instinct sometimes it's sometimes it's Instinct sometimes it's sometimes it's Instinct sometimes it's something that can be taught and you something that can be taught and you something that can be taught and you just have to kind of feel that out yeah just have to kind of feel that out yeah just have to kind of feel that out yeah oh no absolutely the difference between oh no absolutely the difference between oh no absolutely the difference between um I love that you're using words like um I love that you're using words like um I love that you're using words like gut and Instinct because it's so gut and Instinct because it's so gut and Instinct because it's so important especially for Creative people important especially for Creative people important especially for Creative people and for those that are not that it's and for those that are not that it's and for those that are not that it's hard for them to understand hard for them to understand hard for them to understand um but I don't know if you are familiar um but I don't know if you are familiar um but I don't know if you are familiar with the working genius with Patrick with the working genius with Patrick with the working genius with Patrick lindsione but that has been such a lindsione but that has been such a lindsione but that has been such a helpful tool for me and and my team helpful tool for me and and my team helpful tool for me and and my team because mine are galvanizing and because mine are galvanizing and because mine are galvanizing and discernment it's been really difficult discernment it's been really difficult discernment it's been really difficult difficult in my career sometimes because difficult in my career sometimes because difficult in my career sometimes because I'll know like in my gut something and I'll know like in my gut something and I'll know like in my gut something and then I have all my analytical teammates then I have all my analytical teammates then I have all my analytical teammates that are like well I don't know the that are like well I don't know the that are like well I don't know the data's telling us this or what I'm like data's telling us this or what I'm like data's telling us this or what I'm like we don't care because like I know that we don't care because like I know that we don't care because like I know that this is right and it's hard for me to this is right and it's hard for me to this is right and it's hard for me to tell you but like I just need you to tell you but like I just need you to tell you but like I just need you to trust me on this right and so um that

trust me on this right and so um that trust me on this right and so um that I'm constantly in Conflict I feel like I'm constantly in Conflict I feel like I'm constantly in Conflict I feel like between like the the logic and the gut between like the the logic and the gut between like the the logic and the gut um and when those align that's where you um and when those align that's where you um and when those align that's where you know something's really right but from a know something's really right but from a know something's really right but from a leadership perspective to be able to leadership perspective to be able to leadership perspective to be able to discern right like when the gut versus discern right like when the gut versus discern right like when the gut versus the data or the analytics and be that's the data or the analytics and be that's the data or the analytics and be that's we need both like we need teams that we need both like we need teams that we need both like we need teams that have all of those people and have all of those people and have all of those people and um and to be able from a leadership um and to be able from a leadership um and to be able from a leadership perspective to make sure that you're perspective to make sure that you're perspective to make sure that you're celebrating both of those that you're celebrating both of those that you're celebrating both of those that you're listening to both of those that you're listening to both of those that you're listening to both of those that you're not biased towards one of those not biased towards one of those not biased towards one of those um that's really where we see teams um that's really where we see teams um that's really where we see teams perform but where you can have that perform but where you can have that perform but where you can have that friction is where you have people who friction is where you have people who friction is where you have people who don't understand that about each other don't understand that about each other don't understand that about each other and because they see the world so and because they see the world so and because they see the world so differently which is beautiful and that differently which is beautiful and that differently which is beautiful and that needs to be celebrated rather than needs to be celebrated rather than needs to be celebrated rather than um you know I don't know just a fresh a um you know I don't know just a fresh a um you know I don't know just a fresh a point of tension or frustration and point of tension or frustration and point of tension or frustration and speaking Jason's love language as soon speaking Jason's love language as soon speaking Jason's love language as soon as you start talking about the six types as you start talking about the six types as you start talking about the six types of working genius okay so I just stay in the clouds all okay so I just stay in the clouds all day and just dream and wonder and event day and just dream and wonder and event day and just dream and wonder and event and then I headed off and then our team and then I headed off and then our team and then I headed off and then our team just looks at me and says you just gave just looks at me and says you just gave just looks at me and says you just gave us 25 ideas like three of them are us 25 ideas like three of them are us 25 ideas like three of them are really good but right really good but right really good but right well you need the discerners on your well you need the discerners on your well you need the discerners on your team right team right team right the Cerner inventor so I I like yeah the Cerner inventor so I I like yeah the Cerner inventor so I I like yeah it's it's fun to sit with Jason while it's it's fun to sit with Jason while it's it's fun to sit with Jason while he's brainstorming he's brainstorming he's brainstorming um but at some point you have to figure um but at some point you have to figure um but at some point you have to figure out which of these which of these out which of these which of these out which of these which of these wonderful ideas that he has is actually wonderful ideas that he has is actually wonderful ideas that he has is actually actionable and workable so yeah

actionable and workable so yeah actionable and workable so yeah uh so that we're talking about Patrick uh so that we're talking about Patrick uh so that we're talking about Patrick lindsione's uh this the six working lindsione's uh this the six working lindsione's uh this the six working Geniuses and it's like 25 bucks you can Geniuses and it's like 25 bucks you can Geniuses and it's like 25 bucks you can you can take the assessment in fact you you can take the assessment in fact you you can take the assessment in fact you should do it you take your whole team should do it you take your whole team should do it you take your whole team through it if you have a big team and through it if you have a big team and through it if you have a big team and even if you have some volunteers if even if you have some volunteers if even if you have some volunteers if they're kind of committed volunteers pay they're kind of committed volunteers pay they're kind of committed volunteers pay the 25 to have them do it I love it when the 25 to have them do it I love it when the 25 to have them do it I love it when it when the whole church staff does it it when the whole church staff does it it when the whole church staff does it because it it just paints that picture because it it just paints that picture because it it just paints that picture of oh that's where you're coming from of oh that's where you're coming from of oh that's where you're coming from yes it is so it is so helpful yeah yes it is so it is so helpful yeah yes it is so it is so helpful yeah yeah how have you how have you led your yeah how have you how have you led your yeah how have you how have you led your team through that what's what's some team through that what's what's some team through that what's what's some takeaways that you've now that you've takeaways that you've now that you've takeaways that you've now that you've learned about how your team is wired learned about how your team is wired learned about how your team is wired through their Geniuses what's that through their Geniuses what's that through their Geniuses what's that what's how what have you done with that what's how what have you done with that what's how what have you done with that yeah so actually a real practical yeah so actually a real practical yeah so actually a real practical example I have um so example I have um so example I have um so there were there was me and I had two there were there was me and I had two there were there was me and I had two direct reports so I'm a I'm discernment direct reports so I'm a I'm discernment direct reports so I'm a I'm discernment and galvanizer my other direct report and galvanizer my other direct report and galvanizer my other direct report was galvanizer and wonder there you go was galvanizer and wonder there you go was galvanizer and wonder there you go Jason and then the other direct report Jason and then the other direct report Jason and then the other direct report was discernment and tenacity and so my was discernment and tenacity and so my was discernment and tenacity and so my two direct reports were having a two direct reports were having a two direct reports were having a conversation about something that they conversation about something that they conversation about something that they disagreed on because the one with Wonder disagreed on because the one with Wonder disagreed on because the one with Wonder and galvanizer was had you know 15 and galvanizer was had you know 15 and galvanizer was had you know 15 different possibilities which he's so different possibilities which he's so different possibilities which he's so talented at like he is the best at talented at like he is the best at talented at like he is the best at seeing all of the possibilities I mean seeing all of the possibilities I mean seeing all of the possibilities I mean you want that on your team because you want that on your team because you want that on your team because there's just it's Relentless optimism there's just it's Relentless optimism there's just it's Relentless optimism it's just all of the different you know it's just all of the different you know it's just all of the different you know find a way mentality find a way mentality find a way mentality um but then my tenacity and discerner

um but then my tenacity and discerner um but then my tenacity and discerner who has gut instinct and also is a boss who has gut instinct and also is a boss who has gut instinct and also is a boss at getting things done at getting things done at getting things done um was they were having friction because um was they were having friction because um was they were having friction because they they disagreed and so what I did they they disagreed and so what I did they they disagreed and so what I did was I took their working Geniuses and was I took their working Geniuses and was I took their working Geniuses and what I realized was when you put them what I realized was when you put them what I realized was when you put them together they had four of the working together they had four of the working together they had four of the working geniuses and so um there's another geniuses and so um there's another geniuses and so um there's another really great this is like getting super really great this is like getting super really great this is like getting super nerdy but um basically each of the nerdy but um basically each of the nerdy but um basically each of the Geniuses like uh when you are in a team Geniuses like uh when you are in a team Geniuses like uh when you are in a team the Geniuses are kind of in different the Geniuses are kind of in different the Geniuses are kind of in different areas of getting things done right so areas of getting things done right so areas of getting things done right so like your wonder is the person who like like your wonder is the person who like like your wonder is the person who like what you said with Jason like what you said with Jason like what you said with Jason like brainstorming and ideas so brainstorming and ideas so brainstorming and ideas so um that person you want to bring them in um that person you want to bring them in um that person you want to bring them in at the beginning of problem solving like at the beginning of problem solving like at the beginning of problem solving like you want them to just fill the white you want them to just fill the white you want them to just fill the white board with all of the things but then board with all of the things but then board with all of the things but then you need to bring that discerner along you need to bring that discerner along you need to bring that discerner along you know like Bart was talking about to you know like Bart was talking about to you know like Bart was talking about to be able to go okay those are all really be able to go okay those are all really be able to go okay those are all really great ideas but here are the three that great ideas but here are the three that great ideas but here are the three that we really believe are worth spending we really believe are worth spending we really believe are worth spending time on and then you bring and then his time on and then you bring and then his time on and then you bring and then his was galvanizer so once those are decided was galvanizer so once those are decided was galvanizer so once those are decided he is the best at rallying the team and he is the best at rallying the team and he is the best at rallying the team and it's like he's gonna go and everybody is it's like he's gonna go and everybody is it's like he's gonna go and everybody is gonna like run off a cliff behind him gonna like run off a cliff behind him gonna like run off a cliff behind him because he's just the best uh you know because he's just the best uh you know because he's just the best uh you know getting everybody convinced that those getting everybody convinced that those getting everybody convinced that those are the best ideas are the best ideas are the best ideas and then my other director reports was and then my other director reports was and then my other director reports was tenacity so then she's gonna take it and tenacity so then she's gonna take it and tenacity so then she's gonna take it and get it to the finish line and so when I get it to the finish line and so when I get it to the finish line and so when I showed them how if they actually work showed them how if they actually work showed them how if they actually work together and bring each other into the together and bring each other into the together and bring each other into the different phases of the project that's different phases of the project that's different phases of the project that's where the magic happens and so that was where the magic happens and so that was where the magic happens and so that was like revolutionary for both of them when like revolutionary for both of them when like revolutionary for both of them when they saw how they can compliment each

they saw how they can compliment each they saw how they can compliment each other rather than working against each other rather than working against each other rather than working against each other that was the game changer and so other that was the game changer and so other that was the game changer and so um yeah I mean when you have it when um yeah I mean when you have it when um yeah I mean when you have it when you're able to map that out for the team you're able to map that out for the team you're able to map that out for the team that's why the tool is so helpful that's why the tool is so helpful that's why the tool is so helpful because it helps you work with each because it helps you work with each because it helps you work with each other rather than against each other other rather than against each other other rather than against each other and I gotta tell you from a leadership and I gotta tell you from a leadership and I gotta tell you from a leadership standpoint so I sit there and I dream standpoint so I sit there and I dream standpoint so I sit there and I dream all day long I've got a guy on my team all day long I've got a guy on my team all day long I've got a guy on my team who he's in kind of charge of the money who he's in kind of charge of the money who he's in kind of charge of the money yeah so he's like yeah so he's like yeah so he's like he's literally sweating going how are we he's literally sweating going how are we he's literally sweating going how are we going to pay for all this I'm like going to pay for all this I'm like going to pay for all this I'm like dude I'm just I'm over here creating dude I'm just I'm over here creating dude I'm just I'm over here creating ideas I'm not saying I'm gonna have to ideas I'm not saying I'm gonna have to ideas I'm not saying I'm gonna have to do any of them he's like once we do any of them he's like once we do any of them he's like once we realized that it was like oh okay I'll realized that it was like oh okay I'll realized that it was like oh okay I'll stop worrying about how we're gonna pay stop worrying about how we're gonna pay stop worrying about how we're gonna pay for it all right right come up with for it all right right come up with for it all right right come up with ideas and that is that's key right there ideas and that is that's key right there ideas and that is that's key right there Jason so you as the leader and this is Jason so you as the leader and this is Jason so you as the leader and this is key for any church comes to bring it key for any church comes to bring it key for any church comes to bring it back to church cons like number one for back to church cons like number one for back to church cons like number one for you to know yourself and know your you to know yourself and know your you to know yourself and know your senior leader whoever you're working senior leader whoever you're working senior leader whoever you're working with really well so that when you're with really well so that when you're with really well so that when you're working with somebody who has wonder working with somebody who has wonder working with somebody who has wonder who's a senior leader you can just sit who's a senior leader you can just sit who's a senior leader you can just sit back and just let them be who they are back and just let them be who they are back and just let them be who they are at their best let them do all of his at their best let them do all of his at their best let them do all of his ideas I think sometimes people who are ideas I think sometimes people who are ideas I think sometimes people who are tenacity or enablement they take it on tenacity or enablement they take it on tenacity or enablement they take it on as if now they have to go do all of as if now they have to go do all of as if now they have to go do all of those things but on the flip side it's those things but on the flip side it's those things but on the flip side it's important for like Jason or me or like I important for like Jason or me or like I important for like Jason or me or like I think about our CEO he often will use think about our CEO he often will use think about our CEO he often will use this phrase he says this is a this phrase he says this is a this phrase he says this is a perspective not a directive so for us as perspective not a directive so for us as perspective not a directive so for us as the senior leader to say I'm not saying the senior leader to say I'm not saying the senior leader to say I'm not saying you have to go do these 20 things I am you have to go do these 20 things I am you have to go do these 20 things I am literally just throwing these out there literally just throwing these out there literally just throwing these out there for you to like mull over and process for you to like mull over and process for you to like mull over and process and we can pick them up next week and

and we can pick them up next week and and we can pick them up next week and that just gives both people freedom to that just gives both people freedom to that just gives both people freedom to really understand how to get to the next really understand how to get to the next really understand how to get to the next step and not be frustrated or stressed step and not be frustrated or stressed step and not be frustrated or stressed out with each other in the meantime out with each other in the meantime out with each other in the meantime I love that it takes a very self-aware I love that it takes a very self-aware I love that it takes a very self-aware leader to be able to present something leader to be able to present something leader to be able to present something like that so I applaud that that is that like that so I applaud that that is that like that so I applaud that that is that is pretty cool is pretty cool is pretty cool um hey Holly we we need to kind of um hey Holly we we need to kind of um hey Holly we we need to kind of probably start to shut this down interrupting the Wonder and the interrupting the Wonder and the albumizer albumizer albumizer I actually I I have a question I want to I actually I I have a question I want to I actually I I have a question I want to ask you okay it's not on our not not on ask you okay it's not on our not not on ask you okay it's not on our not not on our show notes okay and I'm ready and our show notes okay and I'm ready and our show notes okay and I'm ready and I've never asked this question of I've never asked this question of I've never asked this question of anybody else on the podcast before but I anybody else on the podcast before but I anybody else on the podcast before but I think I think you'll be game for this think I think you'll be game for this think I think you'll be game for this because I think this might be right up because I think this might be right up because I think this might be right up your alley and I'm just gonna say I I your alley and I'm just gonna say I I your alley and I'm just gonna say I I stole this question from another podcast stole this question from another podcast stole this question from another podcast and I can't remember what it is but ever and I can't remember what it is but ever and I can't remember what it is but ever since I heard it asked on another since I heard it asked on another since I heard it asked on another podcast I'm like I want to ask one of podcast I'm like I want to ask one of podcast I'm like I want to ask one of our podcast guests this question okay our podcast guests this question okay our podcast guests this question okay I'm gonna ask you okay and if it totally I'm gonna ask you okay and if it totally I'm gonna ask you okay and if it totally fails here we will edit this out and fails here we will edit this out and fails here we will edit this out and won't even play it as part of the won't even play it as part of the won't even play it as part of the podcast podcast podcast we learned right right right here we go we learned right right right here we go we learned right right right here we go okay here's here's the question I want okay here's here's the question I want okay here's here's the question I want to ask you would you tell us what your to ask you would you tell us what your to ask you would you tell us what your first job was or the worst job that first job was or the worst job that first job was or the worst job that you've ever had that has given you one you've ever had that has given you one you've ever had that has given you one of the most significant Leadership of the most significant Leadership of the most significant Leadership Lessons that you've ever had as you Lessons that you've ever had as you Lessons that you've ever had as you reflect on it now oh my gosh I love this reflect on it now oh my gosh I love this reflect on it now oh my gosh I love this question yes I think I can answer both question yes I think I can answer both question yes I think I can answer both of those so the first job that I had was of those so the first job that I had was of those so the first job that I had was selling Thomas the train engine do you selling Thomas the train engine do you selling Thomas the train engine do you guys remember Thomas I mean I think he's

guys remember Thomas I mean I think he's guys remember Thomas I mean I think he's still around but yeah so I worked at a still around but yeah so I worked at a still around but yeah so I worked at a little kids store in the mall across little kids store in the mall across little kids store in the mall across from the Auntie Anne's pretzel place and from the Auntie Anne's pretzel place and from the Auntie Anne's pretzel place and they sold Thomas the train engines and they sold Thomas the train engines and they sold Thomas the train engines and so that was my very I think I was I so that was my very I think I was I so that was my very I think I was I couldn't even drive by myself yet my I couldn't even drive by myself yet my I couldn't even drive by myself yet my I had my permit but my parents had to like had my permit but my parents had to like had my permit but my parents had to like drive with me you know so I think I was drive with me you know so I think I was drive with me you know so I think I was like 14. like 14. like 14. um and here's what's interesting so I'm um and here's what's interesting so I'm um and here's what's interesting so I'm going to answer your question going to answer your question going to answer your question um so the the owner of that business she um so the the owner of that business she um so the the owner of that business she went to the church that he grew up in I went to the church that he grew up in I went to the church that he grew up in I was so grateful for her I mean she I was so grateful for her I mean she I was so grateful for her I mean she I wasn't looking for a job I was like 14 wasn't looking for a job I was like 14 wasn't looking for a job I was like 14 but she approached me and was like Hey but she approached me and was like Hey but she approached me and was like Hey you know would you love would you be you know would you love would you be you know would you love would you be interested in working at you know a interested in working at you know a interested in working at you know a couple nights a week at the at our store couple nights a week at the at our store couple nights a week at the at our store at the mall like sure at the mall like sure at the mall like sure um she was the most phenomenal like um she was the most phenomenal like um she was the most phenomenal like business in the traditional fashion of business in the traditional fashion of business in the traditional fashion of she had a banking background she was she had a banking background she was she had a banking background she was amazing at like the finances part of amazing at like the finances part of amazing at like the finances part of things uh was just a really smart person things uh was just a really smart person things uh was just a really smart person when it came to like the the finances when it came to like the the finances when it came to like the the finances and nuts and bolts of business and nuts and bolts of business and nuts and bolts of business well about two years in she ended up well about two years in she ended up well about two years in she ended up having to shut down the business because having to shut down the business because having to shut down the business because she just couldn't get the traffic she just couldn't get the traffic she just couldn't get the traffic um the mall it was kind of at the time um the mall it was kind of at the time um the mall it was kind of at the time where the malls were starting to die but where the malls were starting to die but where the malls were starting to die but she didn't do any advertising no she didn't do any advertising no she didn't do any advertising no marketing so this woman comes in to buy marketing so this woman comes in to buy marketing so this woman comes in to buy a lot of her inventory and she's like a lot of her inventory and she's like a lot of her inventory and she's like you know hey what are you doing after you know hey what are you doing after you know hey what are you doing after this I'm like well I don't know I didn't this I'm like well I don't know I didn't this I'm like well I don't know I didn't even ask for this job now I was you know even ask for this job now I was you know even ask for this job now I was you know 16 at the time and she's like well I 16 at the time and she's like well I 16 at the time and she's like well I actually own a store similar to this actually own a store similar to this actually own a store similar to this would you like to come work for me and

would you like to come work for me and would you like to come work for me and it turns out it was literally like 0.4 it turns out it was literally like 0.4 it turns out it was literally like 0.4 miles from my house that I grew up in so miles from my house that I grew up in so miles from my house that I grew up in so I go work for her and it was the polar I go work for her and it was the polar I go work for her and it was the polar opposite opposite opposite she basically started the business she basically started the business she basically started the business because she wanted a break on the because she wanted a break on the because she wanted a break on the inventory because her son was obsessed inventory because her son was obsessed inventory because her son was obsessed with Thomas the Train Engine and with Thomas the Train Engine and with Thomas the Train Engine and um so from a business perspective it was um so from a business perspective it was um so from a business perspective it was a mess like the inventory was all over a mess like the inventory was all over a mess like the inventory was all over the place the place the place um the books I don't even want to know um the books I don't even want to know um the books I don't even want to know but I mean it was like a disaster but but I mean it was like a disaster but but I mean it was like a disaster but she was a brilliant marketing mind so she was a brilliant marketing mind so she was a brilliant marketing mind so what she figured out was what she figured out was what she figured out was um if she did birthday parties that um if she did birthday parties that um if she did birthday parties that would bring traffic in so we would host would bring traffic in so we would host would bring traffic in so we would host birthday parties on the weekends and birthday parties on the weekends and birthday parties on the weekends and then all these families would get then all these families would get then all these families would get exposed to the store so then she would exposed to the store so then she would exposed to the store so then she would generate sales that way and so I generate sales that way and so I generate sales that way and so I remember like age 17 having this moment remember like age 17 having this moment remember like age 17 having this moment where I'm going this is like the same where I'm going this is like the same where I'm going this is like the same business model but I have two very business model but I have two very business model but I have two very different talented women who have different talented women who have different talented women who have founded these companies and both of them founded these companies and both of them founded these companies and both of them are struggling because they haven't are struggling because they haven't are struggling because they haven't learned their weaknesses and learned their weaknesses and learned their weaknesses and complemented their weaknesses by you complemented their weaknesses by you complemented their weaknesses by you know other people or systems or know other people or systems or know other people or systems or processes Etc and so that's really what processes Etc and so that's really what processes Etc and so that's really what inspired me to get a business degree was inspired me to get a business degree was inspired me to get a business degree was because I because I because I um really wanted I didn't want to be um really wanted I didn't want to be um really wanted I didn't want to be that I didn't want to be that I didn't want to be that I didn't want to be um that person that's not self-aware um that person that's not self-aware um that person that's not self-aware enough to know what my weaknesses are enough to know what my weaknesses are enough to know what my weaknesses are and how to you know and how to you know and how to you know how to overcome them in business and so how to overcome them in business and so how to overcome them in business and so um yeah I think the worst part was um yeah I think the worst part was um yeah I think the worst part was cleaning up after little kids birthday cleaning up after little kids birthday cleaning up after little kids birthday parties for Thomas the Train and you

parties for Thomas the Train and you parties for Thomas the Train and you have blue icing all over your hands and have blue icing all over your hands and have blue icing all over your hands and it smells like Lysol you know your it smells like Lysol you know your it smells like Lysol you know your clothes smell like Lysol that was the clothes smell like Lysol that was the clothes smell like Lysol that was the worst part of it but it was a phenomenal worst part of it but it was a phenomenal worst part of it but it was a phenomenal learning experience I'm so thankful for learning experience I'm so thankful for learning experience I'm so thankful for both both both um it was Kim and uh and Lynn um just so um it was Kim and uh and Lynn um just so um it was Kim and uh and Lynn um just so so grateful for them because I wouldn't so grateful for them because I wouldn't so grateful for them because I wouldn't be where I am today had I not had that be where I am today had I not had that be where I am today had I not had that experience in high school with their two experience in high school with their two experience in high school with their two little little you know one-woman shops little little you know one-woman shops little little you know one-woman shops that's awesome yeah thank you for that's awesome yeah thank you for that's awesome yeah thank you for letting me thank you for letting me ask letting me thank you for letting me ask letting me thank you for letting me ask you that question you you hit a home run you that question you you hit a home run you that question you you hit a home run that was good I will not edit that out that was good I will not edit that out that was good I will not edit that out that was really worth the price of that was really worth the price of that was really worth the price of admission right there admission right there admission right there um hey Holly if if people are interested um hey Holly if if people are interested um hey Holly if if people are interested in in connecting with you learning more in in connecting with you learning more in in connecting with you learning more about leader and and the stuff that about leader and and the stuff that about leader and and the stuff that you're doing and even just other you you're doing and even just other you you're doing and even just other you you've got your own website and some you've got your own website and some you've got your own website and some other Consulting and things that you do other Consulting and things that you do other Consulting and things that you do share a little bit about how they can share a little bit about how they can share a little bit about how they can connect with you and and what that would connect with you and and what that would connect with you and and what that would look like totally so on social media look like totally so on social media look like totally so on social media like on Instagram I'm Holly Hall Tate like on Instagram I'm Holly Hall Tate like on Instagram I'm Holly Hall Tate um and then my email is Holly well you um and then my email is Holly well you um and then my email is Holly well you kind of find me all over the place kind of find me all over the place kind of find me all over the place Hollywood tate.com is my website so Hollywood tate.com is my website so Hollywood tate.com is my website so hollytate.com and then leader is we hollytate.com and then leader is we hollytate.com and then leader is we always joke that we can't spell but always joke that we can't spell but always joke that we can't spell but leader without the last e so leader without the last e so leader without the last e so l-e-a-d-r.com l-e-a-d-r.com l-e-a-d-r.com um and you can go there and connect with um and you can go there and connect with um and you can go there and connect with our team but yeah feel free to reach out our team but yeah feel free to reach out our team but yeah feel free to reach out we'd love to continue the conversation we'd love to continue the conversation we'd love to continue the conversation and and and um you know if there's any Thomas the um you know if there's any Thomas the um you know if there's any Thomas the Train fans out there we can we can talk Train fans out there we can we can talk Train fans out there we can we can talk about that too I got it I got it Jason doesn't even know what to do with Jason doesn't even know what to do with Jason doesn't even know what to do with that all right thanks so much Holly we that all right thanks so much Holly we that all right thanks so much Holly we appreciate you you're welcome thanks appreciate you you're welcome thanks appreciate you you're welcome thanks everybody