Your Mental Health Matters in Ministry

I was at a point at working for the I was at a point at working for the church I alone where the thought of church I alone where the thought of church I alone where the thought of staying at that church made me feel staying at that church made me feel staying at that church made me feel depressed depressed depressed but the thought of leaving the church but the thought of leaving the church but the thought of leaving the church made me feel depressed and I was at a made me feel depressed and I was at a made me feel depressed and I was at a very very stuck Point very very stuck Point very very stuck Point um and it happened where um and it happened where um and it happened where I got to a point where I got to a point where I got to a point where it would hurt my mental health to stay it would hurt my mental health to stay it would hurt my mental health to stay at the church more than it would hurt me at the church more than it would hurt me at the church more than it would hurt me to leave where I felt like I for my to leave where I felt like I for my to leave where I felt like I for my mental health I needed to leave so I mental health I needed to leave so I mental health I needed to leave so I made the difficult choice to leave and made the difficult choice to leave and made the difficult choice to leave and it was really hard it was really hard it was really hard I just I really did feel depressed and I just I really did feel depressed and I just I really did feel depressed and lost and lonely and missed my people and lost and lonely and missed my people and lost and lonely and missed my people and it was hard it was hard it was hard um that's where you know fast forward um that's where you know fast forward um that's where you know fast forward it's been about six and a half years it's been about six and a half years it's been about six and a half years since then and I have I'm now at a very since then and I have I'm now at a very since then and I have I'm now at a very different spot this is season three different spot this is season three different spot this is season three episode 17 of the missional marketing episode 17 of the missional marketing episode 17 of the missional marketing podcast was that kind of dramatic maybe podcast was that kind of dramatic maybe podcast was that kind of dramatic maybe it was a little dramatic it's not just it was a little dramatic it's not just it was a little dramatic it's not just season three episode 17 of the missional season three episode 17 of the missional season three episode 17 of the missional marketing podcast it is episode number marketing podcast it is episode number marketing podcast it is episode number 100. that's right this is the 100th 100. that's right this is the 100th 100. that's right this is the 100th episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing podcast thank you so much for taking the podcast thank you so much for taking the podcast thank you so much for taking the time to listen to the show my name is time to listen to the show my name is time to listen to the show my name is Bart Blair I am a digital strategy coach Bart Blair I am a digital strategy coach Bart Blair I am a digital strategy coach at missional marketing and the co-host at missional marketing and the co-host at missional marketing and the co-host of the podcast and uh my co-hosting of the podcast and uh my co-hosting of the podcast and uh my co-hosting partner Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of partner Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of partner Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of missional marketing he and I started

missional marketing he and I started missional marketing he and I started talking weeks ago about what we were talking weeks ago about what we were talking weeks ago about what we were going to do for this special 100th going to do for this special 100th going to do for this special 100th episode and I'm going to share that with episode and I'm going to share that with episode and I'm going to share that with you in just a moment before I do I just you in just a moment before I do I just you in just a moment before I do I just want to remind you that the primary want to remind you that the primary want to remind you that the primary reason we do this podcast is to help reason we do this podcast is to help reason we do this podcast is to help your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications that's the tagline that we use in this that's the tagline that we use in this that's the tagline that we use in this show every single week today's episode show every single week today's episode show every single week today's episode is a little bit different and I think is a little bit different and I think is a little bit different and I think that you're going to understand why if that you're going to understand why if that you're going to understand why if you haven't subscribed to the podcast you haven't subscribed to the podcast you haven't subscribed to the podcast make sure that you do that wherever make sure that you do that wherever make sure that you do that wherever you're listening your favorite you're listening your favorite you're listening your favorite podcasting app or if you're watching on podcasting app or if you're watching on podcasting app or if you're watching on our YouTube channel make sure that you our YouTube channel make sure that you our YouTube channel make sure that you subscribe and ring the bell so that you subscribe and ring the bell so that you subscribe and ring the bell so that you don't miss future episodes don't miss future episodes don't miss future episodes um the conversation that we're going to um the conversation that we're going to um the conversation that we're going to share with you today is something share with you today is something share with you today is something completely different than anything we've completely different than anything we've completely different than anything we've ever done on this show before in fact if ever done on this show before in fact if ever done on this show before in fact if you look back at our archives you'll see you look back at our archives you'll see you look back at our archives you'll see that we have interviewed Church that we have interviewed Church that we have interviewed Church Communications professionals church Communications professionals church Communications professionals church leaders Jason and I have had leaders Jason and I have had leaders Jason and I have had conversations between the two of us conversations between the two of us conversations between the two of us about church marketing and about church marketing and about church marketing and Communications initiatives Communications initiatives Communications initiatives um but this conversation that we're um but this conversation that we're um but this conversation that we're going to share with you today is going to share with you today is going to share with you today is actually one with a few of our team actually one with a few of our team actually one with a few of our team members at missional marketing Jason and members at missional marketing Jason and members at missional marketing Jason and myself and two other gentlemen Zach and myself and two other gentlemen Zach and myself and two other gentlemen Zach and David sat down to have a conversation David sat down to have a conversation David sat down to have a conversation about mental health and specifically about mental health and specifically about mental health and specifically about depression the reason that we about depression the reason that we about depression the reason that we decided to do this is that we actually decided to do this is that we actually decided to do this is that we actually had this conversation with our entire had this conversation with our entire had this conversation with our entire staff team at missional marketing just a staff team at missional marketing just a staff team at missional marketing just a few weeks ago we meet every month and we few weeks ago we meet every month and we few weeks ago we meet every month and we talk about things that matter in the talk about things that matter in the talk about things that matter in the workplace and because we're a virtual workplace and because we're a virtual workplace and because we're a virtual company we don't get to spend a whole company we don't get to spend a whole company we don't get to spend a whole lot of time with one another in person lot of time with one another in person lot of time with one another in person and so every month we take some time to and so every month we take some time to and so every month we take some time to kind of address issues things that might kind of address issues things that might kind of address issues things that might be disruptive in our lives things that be disruptive in our lives things that be disruptive in our lives things that might make it more difficult for us to

might make it more difficult for us to might make it more difficult for us to to work we talk about our work to work we talk about our work to work we talk about our work environment and the technical things environment and the technical things environment and the technical things that we're doing but we always want to that we're doing but we always want to that we're doing but we always want to talk about some of the things that talk about some of the things that talk about some of the things that really matter to us the most and in this really matter to us the most and in this really matter to us the most and in this particular conversation that we had last particular conversation that we had last particular conversation that we had last month David and Zach shared a little bit month David and Zach shared a little bit month David and Zach shared a little bit of their story about dealing with of their story about dealing with of their story about dealing with depression and some mental health issues depression and some mental health issues depression and some mental health issues specifically while they were on staff in specifically while they were on staff in specifically while they were on staff in churches and the four of us sharing in churches and the four of us sharing in churches and the four of us sharing in this conversation have all been on staff this conversation have all been on staff this conversation have all been on staff in churches we've been pastors and we've in churches we've been pastors and we've in churches we've been pastors and we've been church leaders and we know that so been church leaders and we know that so been church leaders and we know that so many of you many of you many of you who are listening to this find yourself who are listening to this find yourself who are listening to this find yourself in the same seat you are on staff in a in the same seat you are on staff in a in the same seat you are on staff in a church and maybe just maybe you have church and maybe just maybe you have church and maybe just maybe you have wrestled with or are wrestling with wrestled with or are wrestling with wrestled with or are wrestling with maybe some depression or some mental maybe some depression or some mental maybe some depression or some mental health issues health issues health issues um disclaimer we're not professionals we um disclaimer we're not professionals we um disclaimer we're not professionals we get to that in the podcast and I do get to that in the podcast and I do get to that in the podcast and I do before we even get to the show I want to before we even get to the show I want to before we even get to the show I want to let you know that if you are struggling let you know that if you are struggling let you know that if you are struggling with mental health we really hope that with mental health we really hope that with mental health we really hope that you will seek out help but most you will seek out help but most you will seek out help but most importantly if you are struggling with importantly if you are struggling with importantly if you are struggling with thoughts of suicide or self-harm just thoughts of suicide or self-harm just thoughts of suicide or self-harm just pause the podcast right now and dial 988 pause the podcast right now and dial 988 pause the podcast right now and dial 988 and you can get help that's a number and you can get help that's a number and you can get help that's a number that everybody needs to know whether that everybody needs to know whether that everybody needs to know whether that's you or someone that you know and that's you or someone that you know and that's you or someone that you know and love dial 988 to get help this is the love dial 988 to get help this is the love dial 988 to get help this is the most serious thing that we can share most serious thing that we can share most serious thing that we can share with you as it relates to mental health with you as it relates to mental health with you as it relates to mental health depression anxiety anything that you depression anxiety anything that you depression anxiety anything that you might be struggling with it's a suicide might be struggling with it's a suicide might be struggling with it's a suicide helpline and it's free 24 hours a day helpline and it's free 24 hours a day helpline and it's free 24 hours a day and you can get the help that you need and you can get the help that you need and you can get the help that you need if it's something that you need we love if it's something that you need we love if it's something that you need we love our friends David and Zach who joined us our friends David and Zach who joined us our friends David and Zach who joined us on the show tonight today we think that

on the show tonight today we think that on the show tonight today we think that you're really going to appreciate and you're really going to appreciate and you're really going to appreciate and love what they share with us apologies love what they share with us apologies love what they share with us apologies David was having some internet issues David was having some internet issues David was having some internet issues and so oftentimes his mic was sort of and so oftentimes his mic was sort of and so oftentimes his mic was sort of cutting in and out and he led a great cutting in and out and he led a great cutting in and out and he led a great deal of the conversation but I still deal of the conversation but I still deal of the conversation but I still think that you're going to be able to think that you're going to be able to think that you're going to be able to get a lot out of it if you're watching get a lot out of it if you're watching get a lot out of it if you're watching on the YouTube channel there's actually on the YouTube channel there's actually on the YouTube channel there's actually a PowerPoint presentation that he's a PowerPoint presentation that he's a PowerPoint presentation that he's walking through so if you're listening walking through so if you're listening walking through so if you're listening to this you might want to and you don't to this you might want to and you don't to this you might want to and you don't catch everything you might want to go catch everything you might want to go catch everything you might want to go over to our YouTube channel so that you over to our YouTube channel so that you over to our YouTube channel so that you can actually see the screen see the can actually see the screen see the can actually see the screen see the slides and we'll actually put the a link slides and we'll actually put the a link slides and we'll actually put the a link to the slides in the show notes so that to the slides in the show notes so that to the slides in the show notes so that you can download them if you want to you can download them if you want to you can download them if you want to review the statistics and some of the review the statistics and some of the review the statistics and some of the the symptoms and some of the things that the symptoms and some of the things that the symptoms and some of the things that David shares in the podcast again thank David shares in the podcast again thank David shares in the podcast again thank you so much for tracking with us here on you so much for tracking with us here on you so much for tracking with us here on the missional marketing podcast we hope the missional marketing podcast we hope the missional marketing podcast we hope and we pray that what we're doing is not and we pray that what we're doing is not and we pray that what we're doing is not just helping you just helping you just helping you be a better Church Communications be a better Church Communications be a better Church Communications professional but it's helping you better professional but it's helping you better professional but it's helping you better be a better Jesus phone work and I'm be a better Jesus phone work and I'm be a better Jesus phone work and I'm hopeful that this conversation today hopeful that this conversation today hopeful that this conversation today will help you do that so without any will help you do that so without any will help you do that so without any further delay uh here's uh Jason Hamrock further delay uh here's uh Jason Hamrock further delay uh here's uh Jason Hamrock the CE of missional marketing and our the CE of missional marketing and our the CE of missional marketing and our conversation with our teammates at conversation with our teammates at conversation with our teammates at missional marketing David and Zach well welcome to the 100th episode of our well welcome to the 100th episode of our podcast we are so excited to be at podcast we are so excited to be at podcast we are so excited to be at number 100 and so Bart and I've been number 100 and so Bart and I've been number 100 and so Bart and I've been doing this for a long time and we've had doing this for a long time and we've had doing this for a long time and we've had a lot of different guests we've had a a lot of different guests we've had a a lot of different guests we've had a lot of different topics and so we've lot of different topics and so we've lot of different topics and so we've kind of reached a milestone we're kind of reached a milestone we're kind of reached a milestone we're excited about it I'm really excited excited about it I'm really excited excited about it I'm really excited about today's topic it's uh it's one about today's topic it's uh it's one about today's topic it's uh it's one that you know I guess I'm not excited that you know I guess I'm not excited that you know I guess I'm not excited about it but I am excited to talk and

about it but I am excited to talk and about it but I am excited to talk and educate and get into some dialogue about educate and get into some dialogue about educate and get into some dialogue about it because it's an issue that it is is it because it's an issue that it is is it because it's an issue that it is is all over the place and it affects all over the place and it affects all over the place and it affects everybody and um uh we're gonna dive everybody and um uh we're gonna dive everybody and um uh we're gonna dive into it today we brought two amazing into it today we brought two amazing into it today we brought two amazing guys I love these guys there are dudes guys I love these guys there are dudes guys I love these guys there are dudes uh Zach who's on our missional marketing uh Zach who's on our missional marketing uh Zach who's on our missional marketing team and David who's on our missional team and David who's on our missional team and David who's on our missional marketing team and um these these guys marketing team and um these these guys marketing team and um these these guys are both uh coaches of ours and uh uh are both uh coaches of ours and uh uh are both uh coaches of ours and uh uh Zach does a ton with our comms con stuff Zach does a ton with our comms con stuff Zach does a ton with our comms con stuff and David does a ton with our research and David does a ton with our research and David does a ton with our research and development but they're both coaches and development but they're both coaches and development but they're both coaches so they get to work with churches as so they get to work with churches as so they get to work with churches as well just like Barton I get to do and um well just like Barton I get to do and um well just like Barton I get to do and um so we we invited them to talk today so we we invited them to talk today so we we invited them to talk today about about about um an issue that you probably have dealt um an issue that you probably have dealt um an issue that you probably have dealt with this or you definitely know with this or you definitely know with this or you definitely know somebody who's dealt with this and somebody who's dealt with this and somebody who's dealt with this and that's that's Mental Health that's that's Mental Health that's that's Mental Health um and and it's it's you know obviously um and and it's it's you know obviously um and and it's it's you know obviously in the church it it affects everybody in the church it it affects everybody in the church it it affects everybody and anybody and so I we just want to and anybody and so I we just want to and anybody and so I we just want to kind of dive in today and I know we're kind of dive in today and I know we're kind of dive in today and I know we're gonna have a really good topic of gonna have a really good topic of gonna have a really good topic of conversation here I hope conversation here I hope conversation here I hope through our conversations you'll learn through our conversations you'll learn through our conversations you'll learn something maybe about yourself or something maybe about yourself or something maybe about yourself or certainly you know a co-worker or a certainly you know a co-worker or a certainly you know a co-worker or a friend or a family member who's going friend or a family member who's going friend or a family member who's going through these kinds of issues and it'll through these kinds of issues and it'll through these kinds of issues and it'll give you some you know some good give you some you know some good give you some you know some good information maybe you could share this information maybe you could share this information maybe you could share this podcast with them that'll help them podcast with them that'll help them podcast with them that'll help them and so let's dive in and so let's dive in and so let's dive in um um um let's let's first introduce our guys let let's let's first introduce our guys let let's let's first introduce our guys let them take a minute to introduce them take a minute to introduce them take a minute to introduce themselves so Zach why don't you go themselves so Zach why don't you go themselves so Zach why don't you go first and then we'll have David go

first and then we'll have David go first and then we'll have David go yeah yeah yeah um my name is Zach bernauer I'm a coach um my name is Zach bernauer I'm a coach um my name is Zach bernauer I'm a coach along with working with comms along with working with comms along with working with comms communication and communication and communication and um working to grow that product within um working to grow that product within um working to grow that product within us currently I live in Philadelphia us currently I live in Philadelphia us currently I live in Philadelphia Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Pennsylvania um just hot off the heels of moving from um just hot off the heels of moving from um just hot off the heels of moving from St Louis Missouri so St Louis Missouri so St Louis Missouri so um just out here living life and trying um just out here living life and trying um just out here living life and trying to build Mission market missional to build Mission market missional to build Mission market missional marketing along with the kingdom of God marketing along with the kingdom of God marketing along with the kingdom of God yeah and you also you're involved in yeah and you also you're involved in yeah and you also you're involved in churches and I mean you know you went churches and I mean you know you went churches and I mean you know you went out to St Louis to help kind of plan a out to St Louis to help kind of plan a out to St Louis to help kind of plan a church right and do that kind of thing church right and do that kind of thing church right and do that kind of thing now you're back in in good old Philly now you're back in in good old Philly now you're back in in good old Philly um Eagles are doing pretty good um Eagles are doing pretty good um Eagles are doing pretty good um yeah they're doing decent this year um yeah they're doing decent this year um yeah they're doing decent this year yeah they are yeah so that that's really yeah they are yeah so that that's really yeah they are yeah so that that's really cool man and Zach's a great great team cool man and Zach's a great great team cool man and Zach's a great great team member of ours we're we're so excited to member of ours we're we're so excited to member of ours we're we're so excited to have him and his all he brings to the have him and his all he brings to the have him and his all he brings to the table David um introduce yourselves and table David um introduce yourselves and table David um introduce yourselves and if you want to go ahead and tell them if you want to go ahead and tell them if you want to go ahead and tell them where you live and who you cheer for you where you live and who you cheer for you where you live and who you cheer for you can do well where I live is exciting can do well where I live is exciting can do well where I live is exciting that's Cleveland Ohio that's Cleveland Ohio that's Cleveland Ohio here for it depends here for it depends here for it depends right now we have a really good baseball right now we have a really good baseball right now we have a really good baseball team and a really really good basketball team and a really really good basketball team and a really really good basketball team team team I also have a football team I also have a football team I also have a football team I'll let you know that yeah and my wife I'll let you know that yeah and my wife I'll let you know that yeah and my wife here about 12 years ago being a part of here about 12 years ago being a part of here about 12 years ago being a part of a few church plans and uh and then I a few church plans and uh and then I a few church plans and uh and then I worked at a a multi-ethnic church for a worked at a a multi-ethnic church for a worked at a a multi-ethnic church for a few years few years few years uh after that and now we're official uh after that and now we're official uh after that and now we're official marketing and I uh work on a team that's

marketing and I uh work on a team that's marketing and I uh work on a team that's a mad scientist team we're trying to a mad scientist team we're trying to a mad scientist team we're trying to think about what the church needs next think about what the church needs next think about what the church needs next and always trying to be on The Cutting and always trying to be on The Cutting and always trying to be on The Cutting Edge so we can offer the best most Edge so we can offer the best most Edge so we can offer the best most amazing stuff to churches yeah yeah both amazing stuff to churches yeah yeah both amazing stuff to churches yeah yeah both you guys are awesome okay all right so you guys are awesome okay all right so you guys are awesome okay all right so for this one second David is actually a for this one second David is actually a for this one second David is actually a repeat guest on the podcast yeah I just repeat guest on the podcast yeah I just repeat guest on the podcast yeah I just want to highlight that the last time want to highlight that the last time want to highlight that the last time that David was on the show uh he had that David was on the show uh he had that David was on the show uh he had just finished his Doctorate so he is Dr just finished his Doctorate so he is Dr just finished his Doctorate so he is Dr David Thorne uh he had just finished his David Thorne uh he had just finished his David Thorne uh he had just finished his Doctorate and he came and shared about Doctorate and he came and shared about Doctorate and he came and shared about how to build volunteer teams for your how to build volunteer teams for your how to build volunteer teams for your Communications Department a little link Communications Department a little link Communications Department a little link to that episode in the show notes to that episode in the show notes to that episode in the show notes because it's actually one that I've because it's actually one that I've because it's actually one that I've referred a lot of churches to referred a lot of churches to referred a lot of churches to um over the last year or so since we did um over the last year or so since we did um over the last year or so since we did that one so David thanks for being on that one so David thanks for being on that one so David thanks for being on the show oh and I should probably say the show oh and I should probably say the show oh and I should probably say this even though David is a doctor and this even though David is a doctor and this even though David is a doctor and all of us have been on staff in churches all of us have been on staff in churches all of us have been on staff in churches and all of us have probably to some and all of us have probably to some and all of us have probably to some degree dealt with and wrestled with degree dealt with and wrestled with degree dealt with and wrestled with maybe some mental health challenges we maybe some mental health challenges we maybe some mental health challenges we are not experts in this area so here's are not experts in this area so here's are not experts in this area so here's our disclaimer we're just here to share our disclaimer we're just here to share our disclaimer we're just here to share a little bit of stuff that we've learned a little bit of stuff that we've learned a little bit of stuff that we've learned along the way share a little bit from along the way share a little bit from along the way share a little bit from our own personal experience our own personal experience our own personal experience um and I would just it would be I think um and I would just it would be I think um and I would just it would be I think we'd be remiss not to say that um beyond we'd be remiss not to say that um beyond we'd be remiss not to say that um beyond what you hear and what you learned from what you hear and what you learned from what you hear and what you learned from us today from our story from our us today from our story from our us today from our story from our experience we highly recommend that if experience we highly recommend that if experience we highly recommend that if you're really challenged with stuff in you're really challenged with stuff in you're really challenged with stuff in this area that you seek professional this area that you seek professional this area that you seek professional help help help um and I just wanted to make sure that um and I just wanted to make sure that um and I just wanted to make sure that we we kind of put that out there because

we we kind of put that out there because we we kind of put that out there because we want to be helpful in what we're we want to be helpful in what we're we want to be helpful in what we're doing here today but um yeah we're doing here today but um yeah we're doing here today but um yeah we're amateurs at this we're just we're just amateurs at this we're just we're just amateurs at this we're just we're just some dudes living life trying to follow some dudes living life trying to follow some dudes living life trying to follow Jesus and get the most out of it so with Jesus and get the most out of it so with Jesus and get the most out of it so with that being said let's turn things over that being said let's turn things over that being said let's turn things over to David yeah to David yeah to David yeah yeah and uh yeah and uh yeah and uh um yeah thanks for for all of that and um yeah thanks for for all of that and um yeah thanks for for all of that and so we're talking about mental health and so we're talking about mental health and so we're talking about mental health and we actually talked about this as a uh as we actually talked about this as a uh as we actually talked about this as a uh as a missional marketing staff the other a missional marketing staff the other a missional marketing staff the other week and we just all came away from that week and we just all came away from that week and we just all came away from that saying wow we all needed to hear that saying wow we all needed to hear that saying wow we all needed to hear that and so that's kind of the heart with and so that's kind of the heart with and so that's kind of the heart with which we share this which we share this which we share this um we're going to talk about the idea of um we're going to talk about the idea of um we're going to talk about the idea of mental health but also like specifically mental health but also like specifically mental health but also like specifically depression depression depression and I know when it comes to like the the and I know when it comes to like the the and I know when it comes to like the the winter uh it's a time when like winter uh it's a time when like winter uh it's a time when like depression become more prevalent for depression become more prevalent for depression become more prevalent for example in Cleveland example in Cleveland example in Cleveland um that bright shiny orb in the sky that um that bright shiny orb in the sky that um that bright shiny orb in the sky that many people enjoy disappear many people enjoy disappear many people enjoy disappear for about five months and it I'm in a for about five months and it I'm in a for about five months and it I'm in a place like Cleveland where you know place like Cleveland where you know place like Cleveland where you know people get a little down people get a little down people get a little down and if you're a church staff or work for and if you're a church staff or work for and if you're a church staff or work for a church or connected with church or a church or connected with church or a church or connected with church or just a human being just a human being just a human being um it might be something you or someone um it might be something you or someone um it might be something you or someone you love might be dealing with right now you love might be dealing with right now you love might be dealing with right now which is the heart with which we want to which is the heart with which we want to which is the heart with which we want to share with you stuff that we talked share with you stuff that we talked share with you stuff that we talked about as a staff about as a staff about as a staff uh with that I'd like to actually start uh with that I'd like to actually start uh with that I'd like to actually start with Zach sharing his story and sharing with Zach sharing his story and sharing with Zach sharing his story and sharing a little bit about his background when a little bit about his background when a little bit about his background when it comes to uh depression so Zach I know

it comes to uh depression so Zach I know it comes to uh depression so Zach I know you and I have talked you and I have talked you and I have talked um could you share a little bit about um could you share a little bit about um could you share a little bit about your story when it comes to depression your story when it comes to depression your story when it comes to depression yeah I think yeah I think yeah I think um depression is something that I um depression is something that I um depression is something that I remember dealing with even as a young remember dealing with even as a young remember dealing with even as a young kid kid kid um and I think I lived by the impression um and I think I lived by the impression um and I think I lived by the impression that once you get saved the depression that once you get saved the depression that once you get saved the depression kind of goes away but if it doesn't go kind of goes away but if it doesn't go kind of goes away but if it doesn't go away when you get saved it's definitely away when you get saved it's definitely away when you get saved it's definitely going to go away when you start Ministry going to go away when you start Ministry going to go away when you start Ministry um because you know pastors can't be um because you know pastors can't be um because you know pastors can't be depressed pastors can't have anxiety or depressed pastors can't have anxiety or depressed pastors can't have anxiety or hardships hardships hardships um so I remember being about um so I remember being about um so I remember being about um seven eight years old and just being um seven eight years old and just being um seven eight years old and just being very sad all the time very sad all the time very sad all the time um most of the other kids around me were um most of the other kids around me were um most of the other kids around me were very happy and seem to have no cares but very happy and seem to have no cares but very happy and seem to have no cares but I I I um was just felt like this this deep um was just felt like this this deep um was just felt like this this deep sadness that really never seemed to sadness that really never seemed to sadness that really never seemed to alleviate alleviate alleviate um and then fast forward into my college um and then fast forward into my college um and then fast forward into my college Years I actually Years I actually Years I actually um was in my sophomore year I was high um was in my sophomore year I was high um was in my sophomore year I was high achieving achieving achieving um I like to say I have high functioning um I like to say I have high functioning um I like to say I have high functioning depression I was taking overload classes depression I was taking overload classes depression I was taking overload classes I was doing the whole minute history I was doing the whole minute history I was doing the whole minute history thing I was traveling with a thing I was traveling with a thing I was traveling with a traveling choir and it was one morning I traveling choir and it was one morning I traveling choir and it was one morning I was getting up and getting ready to go was getting up and getting ready to go was getting up and getting ready to go to class and it felt like a lightning to class and it felt like a lightning to class and it felt like a lightning bolt just hit my body and I collapsed in bolt just hit my body and I collapsed in bolt just hit my body and I collapsed in the shower and the shower and the shower and um that's the start of what I thought um that's the start of what I thought um that's the start of what I thought was probably a mental breakdown I spent was probably a mental breakdown I spent was probably a mental breakdown I spent probably a year and a half in counseling probably a year and a half in counseling probably a year and a half in counseling the school was gracious to give me about

the school was gracious to give me about the school was gracious to give me about a month in that semester to go back home a month in that semester to go back home a month in that semester to go back home and kind of recoup and I kind of put the and kind of recoup and I kind of put the and kind of recoup and I kind of put the pieces back together and then a few pieces back together and then a few pieces back together and then a few years later I go into Ministry and I years later I go into Ministry and I years later I go into Ministry and I start as a student Pastor in a small start as a student Pastor in a small start as a student Pastor in a small town called Livonia Georgia right town called Livonia Georgia right town called Livonia Georgia right outside of Atlanta and if you know me in outside of Atlanta and if you know me in outside of Atlanta and if you know me in any capacity you know that any capacity you know that any capacity you know that um I am not a farm boy I'm not a even a um I am not a farm boy I'm not a even a um I am not a farm boy I'm not a even a southern boy and I was living in the southern boy and I was living in the southern boy and I was living in the chicken farming capital of the world and chicken farming capital of the world and chicken farming capital of the world and so all automatically there was already so all automatically there was already so all automatically there was already this disconnect and this disconnect and this disconnect and um being 22 years old and a youth pastor um being 22 years old and a youth pastor um being 22 years old and a youth pastor and trying to navigate and trying to navigate and trying to navigate um basically digital media and um within um basically digital media and um within um basically digital media and um within our church in addition to having a very our church in addition to having a very our church in addition to having a very fast growing uh youth group really took fast growing uh youth group really took fast growing uh youth group really took its toll on me and so over the next few its toll on me and so over the next few its toll on me and so over the next few years I really felt depression kick in years I really felt depression kick in years I really felt depression kick in and then and then and then um Ministry is hard you deal with the um Ministry is hard you deal with the um Ministry is hard you deal with the criticisms and the rejections and being criticisms and the rejections and being criticisms and the rejections and being about 15 hours away from my family it about 15 hours away from my family it about 15 hours away from my family it was really kind of difficult season of was really kind of difficult season of was really kind of difficult season of life and then covet happened and now life and then covet happened and now life and then covet happened and now instead of going into an office I'm now instead of going into an office I'm now instead of going into an office I'm now living by myself and having to living by myself and having to living by myself and having to completely take our church online and completely take our church online and completely take our church online and workless hours and sleepless nights workless hours and sleepless nights workless hours and sleepless nights trying to do that and I just really felt trying to do that and I just really felt trying to do that and I just really felt my mental health really deteriorating my mental health really deteriorating my mental health really deteriorating and so it was through that process I saw

and so it was through that process I saw and so it was through that process I saw a doctor and realized there is some a doctor and realized there is some a doctor and realized there is some chemical imbalances that I deal with chemical imbalances that I deal with chemical imbalances that I deal with um in addition to seeking out counseling um in addition to seeking out counseling um in addition to seeking out counseling which allowed me to which allowed me to which allowed me to um process through some things and it's um process through some things and it's um process through some things and it's kind of something even now I try to keep kind of something even now I try to keep kind of something even now I try to keep on top of with making sure that my on top of with making sure that my on top of with making sure that my mental health is in top condition mental health is in top condition mental health is in top condition because if it's not sometimes I can find because if it's not sometimes I can find because if it's not sometimes I can find myself in a low place myself in a low place myself in a low place um um um yeah yeah yeah and um I was actually going to share a and um I was actually going to share a and um I was actually going to share a little bit about for me personally of little bit about for me personally of little bit about for me personally of even my like church story because it even my like church story because it even my like church story because it plays into this is um there's been times plays into this is um there's been times plays into this is um there's been times where I I've actually I've taken where I I've actually I've taken where I I've actually I've taken medicine for depression I my medicine for depression I my medicine for depression I my then a seminary was actually one of then a seminary was actually one of then a seminary was actually one of those times I said it kind of felt like those times I said it kind of felt like those times I said it kind of felt like if you're on a roller coaster and if you're on a roller coaster and if you're on a roller coaster and there's low emotions and high emotions there's low emotions and high emotions there's low emotions and high emotions I could like I knew there were high I could like I knew there were high I could like I knew there were high emotions but I couldn't touch them it emotions but I couldn't touch them it emotions but I couldn't touch them it just felt like they were Out Of Reach just felt like they were Out Of Reach just felt like they were Out Of Reach and another time that I really and another time that I really and another time that I really experienced some load times is I was experienced some load times is I was experienced some load times is I was working at the church plant that I loved working at the church plant that I loved working at the church plant that I loved and I I mean I worked and I I mean I worked and I I mean I worked really hard every single day for eight really hard every single day for eight really hard every single day for eight years years years um but I really started to get burnt out um but I really started to get burnt out um but I really started to get burnt out and and and um I had the realization that there was um I had the realization that there was um I had the realization that there was I I worked for two years I I worked for two years I I worked for two years and had only missed one Sunday out of and had only missed one Sunday out of and had only missed one Sunday out of those like two years those like two years those like two years and I had not taken very much time off and I had not taken very much time off and I had not taken very much time off and I was partially on me that I just and I was partially on me that I just and I was partially on me that I just wanted to prove that I could work really wanted to prove that I could work really wanted to prove that I could work really hard and I was gonna I I cared about it

hard and I was gonna I I cared about it hard and I was gonna I I cared about it so much and I I wanted to do a good job so much and I I wanted to do a good job so much and I I wanted to do a good job um for our lead Pastor I was like the um for our lead Pastor I was like the um for our lead Pastor I was like the executive Pastor executive Pastor executive Pastor um um um I was at a point at working for the I was at a point at working for the I was at a point at working for the church that I loved where the thought of church that I loved where the thought of church that I loved where the thought of staying at that church made me feel staying at that church made me feel staying at that church made me feel depressed depressed depressed but the thought of leaving the church but the thought of leaving the church but the thought of leaving the church made me feel depressed and I was at a made me feel depressed and I was at a made me feel depressed and I was at a very very stuck Point very very stuck Point very very stuck Point um and it happened where um and it happened where um and it happened where I got to a point where I got to a point where I got to a point where it would hurt my mental health to stay it would hurt my mental health to stay it would hurt my mental health to stay at the church more than it would hurt me at the church more than it would hurt me at the church more than it would hurt me to leave where I felt like I for my to leave where I felt like I for my to leave where I felt like I for my mental health I needed to leave so I mental health I needed to leave so I mental health I needed to leave so I made the difficult choice to leave and made the difficult choice to leave and made the difficult choice to leave and it was really hard it was really hard it was really hard uh just I really did feel depressed and uh just I really did feel depressed and uh just I really did feel depressed and lost and lonely and missed my people and lost and lonely and missed my people and lost and lonely and missed my people and it was hard it was hard it was hard um and that's where you know fast um and that's where you know fast um and that's where you know fast forward it's been about six and a half forward it's been about six and a half forward it's been about six and a half years since then and I have I'm now at a years since then and I have I'm now at a years since then and I have I'm now at a very different spot but it just means I very different spot but it just means I very different spot but it just means I I share that story because of how many I share that story because of how many I share that story because of how many people are listening to this podcast who people are listening to this podcast who people are listening to this podcast who could be in a very similar spot and this could be in a very similar spot and this could be in a very similar spot and this podcast is for you podcast is for you podcast is for you um so I wanted to mention that and with um so I wanted to mention that and with um so I wanted to mention that and with that I kind of wanted to go more that I kind of wanted to go more that I kind of wanted to go more specifically into how do we know what specifically into how do we know what specifically into how do we know what we're experiencing actually is we're experiencing actually is we're experiencing actually is depression and how do we know what we're

depression and how do we know what we're depression and how do we know what we're experiencing is just kind of like down experiencing is just kind of like down experiencing is just kind of like down times times times so I want to talk about a few things so I want to talk about a few things so I want to talk about a few things here here here and this is what I want us just to be and this is what I want us just to be and this is what I want us just to be aware of if you're feeling down right aware of if you're feeling down right aware of if you're feeling down right now you're not alone now you're not alone now you're not alone um just so you know like overall in um just so you know like overall in um just so you know like overall in America America America and across the country the median age and across the country the median age and across the country the median age when depression is diagnosed in somebody when depression is diagnosed in somebody when depression is diagnosed in somebody is 32. so that's pretty old is 32. so that's pretty old is 32. so that's pretty old um I mean it's not super old but you um I mean it's not super old but you um I mean it's not super old but you know there's a lot of people who are 32 know there's a lot of people who are 32 know there's a lot of people who are 32 years old it's all about personality years old it's all about personality years old it's all about personality yes oh to be 32 again oh yeah yes yes oh to be 32 again oh yeah yes yes oh to be 32 again oh yeah yes um 35 of adults um 35 of adults um 35 of adults um don't receive treatment so it's just um don't receive treatment so it's just um don't receive treatment so it's just saying that there's a lot of people and saying that there's a lot of people and saying that there's a lot of people and I bet the number of pastors is even I bet the number of pastors is even I bet the number of pastors is even higher because we feel like it's higher because we feel like it's higher because we feel like it's probably our problems aren't as as other probably our problems aren't as as other probably our problems aren't as as other peoples and the peoples that we talk to peoples and the peoples that we talk to peoples and the peoples that we talk to talk to talk to talk to um out there but chances are they may um out there but chances are they may um out there but chances are they may need some outside help it's the number one depressionism being it's the number one depressionism being cause of disability in the United States cause of disability in the United States cause of disability in the United States so there's a lot of people who are out so there's a lot of people who are out so there's a lot of people who are out there who are not treating or there who are not treating or there who are not treating or acknowledging or handling depression and acknowledging or handling depression and acknowledging or handling depression and it becomes debilitating and a reason why it becomes debilitating and a reason why it becomes debilitating and a reason why you actually can't work you actually can't work you actually can't work um 50 of people have a chance of having

um 50 of people have a chance of having um 50 of people have a chance of having a second episode of depression so if a second episode of depression so if a second episode of depression so if you've ever experienced in the past you've ever experienced in the past you've ever experienced in the past there's a very good chance that maybe there's a very good chance that maybe there's a very good chance that maybe what you're experiencing right now is what you're experiencing right now is what you're experiencing right now is actually depression actually depression actually depression there are six major symptoms of there are six major symptoms of there are six major symptoms of depression you feel down depression you feel down depression you feel down time you're absolutely exhausted time you're absolutely exhausted time you're absolutely exhausted feels fun anymore you don't feel those feels fun anymore you don't feel those feels fun anymore you don't feel those high notes uh your current status high notes uh your current status high notes uh your current status couch potato couch potato couch potato your weight is way up or way down and your weight is way up or way down and your weight is way up or way down and then lastly the guilt won't go away then lastly the guilt won't go away then lastly the guilt won't go away it's worth kind of noting it's worth kind of noting it's worth kind of noting how do we know whether what we're how do we know whether what we're how do we know whether what we're experiencing is actually depression or experiencing is actually depression or experiencing is actually depression or it's just winter Blues it's just winter Blues it's just winter Blues so winter Blues maybe you feel a little so winter Blues maybe you feel a little so winter Blues maybe you feel a little bit down bit down bit down depression you feel very down depression you feel very down depression you feel very down if you feel the winter Blues you're able if you feel the winter Blues you're able if you feel the winter Blues you're able to bounce back to bounce back to bounce back maybe you're down for a few days but you maybe you're down for a few days but you maybe you're down for a few days but you bounce back when you have depression you bounce back when you have depression you bounce back when you have depression you don't bounce back don't bounce back don't bounce back Blues is somewhat disruptive to normal Blues is somewhat disruptive to normal Blues is somewhat disruptive to normal depression very disruptive depression very disruptive depression very disruptive with Blues you mostly continue with your with Blues you mostly continue with your with Blues you mostly continue with your normal work sleep Recreation patterns normal work sleep Recreation patterns normal work sleep Recreation patterns when you're experiencing depression it's when you're experiencing depression it's when you're experiencing depression it's going to interfere with work sleep and going to interfere with work sleep and going to interfere with work sleep and Recreation it's going to impact your Recreation it's going to impact your Recreation it's going to impact your daily life daily life daily life with Blues you might feel a little a with Blues you might feel a little a with Blues you might feel a little a little lethargic and unmotivated uh with

little lethargic and unmotivated uh with little lethargic and unmotivated uh with depression lethargy and lack of depression lethargy and lack of depression lethargy and lack of motivation becomes a major part of your motivation becomes a major part of your motivation becomes a major part of your day day day um and then finally Blues you may feel um and then finally Blues you may feel um and then finally Blues you may feel down here and there with depression down here and there with depression down here and there with depression you're going to feel down most of the you're going to feel down most of the you're going to feel down most of the time time time taking this actually a little bit deeper taking this actually a little bit deeper taking this actually a little bit deeper I want to share something that I I got I want to share something that I I got I want to share something that I I got from the diagnostical statistical manual from the diagnostical statistical manual from the diagnostical statistical manual number five which is the most recent number five which is the most recent number five which is the most recent psychological psychological psychological diagnosis uh manual try saying diagnosis uh manual try saying diagnosis uh manual try saying diagnostical statistical times diagnostical statistical times diagnostical statistical times um you and your car or whoever's um you and your car or whoever's um you and your car or whoever's listening this go ahead and try pause listening this go ahead and try pause listening this go ahead and try pause and just try diagnostical statistical and just try diagnostical statistical and just try diagnostical statistical manual say that five times fast manual say that five times fast manual say that five times fast um but it mentions there's a whole list um but it mentions there's a whole list um but it mentions there's a whole list of things that are symptoms a person of things that are symptoms a person of things that are symptoms a person could experience and the idea is that if could experience and the idea is that if could experience and the idea is that if you experience about at least five of you experience about at least five of you experience about at least five of these these these for at least two weeks then you may have for at least two weeks then you may have for at least two weeks then you may have a noticeable case of of depression a noticeable case of of depression a noticeable case of of depression um it's things like actually what we um it's things like actually what we um it's things like actually what we just mentioned like a depressed mood I'm just mentioned like a depressed mood I'm just mentioned like a depressed mood I'm okay okay okay um diminished interest um diminished interest um diminished interest measuring things you used to enjoy measuring things you used to enjoy measuring things you used to enjoy significant weight loss again slowing significant weight loss again slowing significant weight loss again slowing down of your physical activity down of your physical activity down of your physical activity um fatigue loss of energy every day um fatigue loss of energy every day um fatigue loss of energy every day feelings of worthlessness or obsessive feelings of worthlessness or obsessive feelings of worthlessness or obsessive guilt coming from nowhere a diminished

guilt coming from nowhere a diminished guilt coming from nowhere a diminished ability to concentrate ability to concentrate ability to concentrate um recurrent thoughts of death or um recurrent thoughts of death or um recurrent thoughts of death or recurrent cytal ideation recurrent cytal ideation recurrent cytal ideation without a specific plan but just the without a specific plan but just the without a specific plan but just the idea of thinking about uh ending idea of thinking about uh ending idea of thinking about uh ending India another symptom India another symptom India another symptom and it's just saying that the and it's just saying that the and it's just saying that the ds5 says if you experience any of those ds5 says if you experience any of those ds5 says if you experience any of those for at least five of them for at least for at least five of them for at least for at least five of them for at least two weeks then you may uh be have a two weeks then you may uh be have a two weeks then you may uh be have a diagnosable uh depression and it's just diagnosable uh depression and it's just diagnosable uh depression and it's just saying um if if I as I'm saying these saying um if if I as I'm saying these saying um if if I as I'm saying these things if you're like that's me that's things if you're like that's me that's things if you're like that's me that's me that's me if you start saying that to me that's me if you start saying that to me that's me if you start saying that to me about you know three four or five me about you know three four or five me about you know three four or five times it might be worth pausing and times it might be worth pausing and times it might be worth pausing and chatting with someone chatting with a chatting with someone chatting with a chatting with someone chatting with a friend making an appointment with your friend making an appointment with your friend making an appointment with your doctor or counselor doctor or counselor doctor or counselor um especially if you are because you're um especially if you are because you're um especially if you are because you're probably uh laying off how you're probably uh laying off how you're probably uh laying off how you're feeling and saying it's not as bad as it feeling and saying it's not as bad as it feeling and saying it's not as bad as it probably is probably is probably is there's various causes of depression and there's various causes of depression and there's various causes of depression and I think it's worth just noting these it I think it's worth just noting these it I think it's worth just noting these it can be things like genetics your body can be things like genetics your body can be things like genetics your body chemistry a significant life event chemistry a significant life event chemistry a significant life event trauma unaddressed trauma hormone trauma unaddressed trauma hormone trauma unaddressed trauma hormone changes medicines you're taking changes medicines you're taking changes medicines you're taking substance abuse Seasons like include in substance abuse Seasons like include in substance abuse Seasons like include in Cleveland when the bright orb in the sky

Cleveland when the bright orb in the sky Cleveland when the bright orb in the sky disappears everyone gets depressed uh or disappears everyone gets depressed uh or disappears everyone gets depressed uh or just happens sometimes just happens sometimes just happens sometimes so just as saying that if you are so just as saying that if you are so just as saying that if you are experiencing depression there can be all experiencing depression there can be all experiencing depression there can be all kinds of causes and when you can think kinds of causes and when you can think kinds of causes and when you can think through what could be causing it it can through what could be causing it it can through what could be causing it it can help you address help you address help you address what you do in responsive to those what you do in responsive to those what you do in responsive to those causes causes causes so let me just uh I'll pause here and I so let me just uh I'll pause here and I so let me just uh I'll pause here and I the last thing that we we talked about the last thing that we we talked about the last thing that we we talked about as a staff and it could be something as a staff and it could be something as a staff and it could be something that we talk about here as just the four that we talk about here as just the four that we talk about here as just the four of us here of us here of us here is what what are ways and Zach I want to is what what are ways and Zach I want to is what what are ways and Zach I want to think about ask you this think about ask you this think about ask you this would you have any suggestions for when would you have any suggestions for when would you have any suggestions for when you're working with somebody who has you're working with somebody who has you're working with somebody who has depression or you may think could be depression or you may think could be depression or you may think could be struggling with depression struggling with depression struggling with depression how might you suggest we should work how might you suggest we should work how might you suggest we should work who's struggling with that who's struggling with that who's struggling with that yeah I think a big part of it is um with yeah I think a big part of it is um with yeah I think a big part of it is um with us we live um we will all work from home us we live um we will all work from home us we live um we will all work from home so we're kind of isolated from one so we're kind of isolated from one so we're kind of isolated from one another another another um so something that our staff kind of um so something that our staff kind of um so something that our staff kind of works to do is connect with one another works to do is connect with one another works to do is connect with one another on social media on social media on social media um whether it be the be Facebook um whether it be the be Facebook um whether it be the be Facebook Instagram be real I know that a couple Instagram be real I know that a couple Instagram be real I know that a couple of our females they uh use uh Marco Polo of our females they uh use uh Marco Polo of our females they uh use uh Marco Polo to talk to one another during the day so to talk to one another during the day so to talk to one another during the day so they share updates from their family

they share updates from their family they share updates from their family their individual lives maybe some work their individual lives maybe some work their individual lives maybe some work updates through through video messaging updates through through video messaging updates through through video messaging that they can listen to almost like a that they can listen to almost like a that they can listen to almost like a podcast as they're getting ready and podcast as they're getting ready and podcast as they're getting ready and then respond and so I think making sure then respond and so I think making sure then respond and so I think making sure that everyone feels a sense of that everyone feels a sense of that everyone feels a sense of connectivity and feels seen especially connectivity and feels seen especially connectivity and feels seen especially when we work from home a lot of the when we work from home a lot of the when we work from home a lot of the times we're just trying to get tasks times we're just trying to get tasks times we're just trying to get tasks done or move one project to the next done or move one project to the next done or move one project to the next project that we can kind of miss the project that we can kind of miss the project that we can kind of miss the individual that's doing that so taking individual that's doing that so taking individual that's doing that so taking time just to to connect and check in in time just to to connect and check in in time just to to connect and check in in with one another being strategic in your with one another being strategic in your with one another being strategic in your schedule and then another thing is a lot schedule and then another thing is a lot schedule and then another thing is a lot of people especially in in our company of people especially in in our company of people especially in in our company were very high achieving High working were very high achieving High working were very high achieving High working um it's easy for us to miss those breaks um it's easy for us to miss those breaks um it's easy for us to miss those breaks and to kind of burn ourselves out so if and to kind of burn ourselves out so if and to kind of burn ourselves out so if you're noticing some of your co-workers you're noticing some of your co-workers you're noticing some of your co-workers aren't taking time off or working late aren't taking time off or working late aren't taking time off or working late nights or you're always seeing emails nights or you're always seeing emails nights or you're always seeing emails coming in way after work hours checking coming in way after work hours checking coming in way after work hours checking in with them and saying do you need some in with them and saying do you need some in with them and saying do you need some time off do you need rest do you need time off do you need rest do you need time off do you need rest do you need break how can we alleviate your workload break how can we alleviate your workload break how can we alleviate your workload so that you can feel a sense of relief so that you can feel a sense of relief so that you can feel a sense of relief and enjoyment coming to work rather than and enjoyment coming to work rather than and enjoyment coming to work rather than it being something that is a source of it being something that is a source of it being something that is a source of contention contention contention yeah I'd probably throw in there as well yeah I'd probably throw in there as well yeah I'd probably throw in there as well um you know prayer works really well too um you know prayer works really well too um you know prayer works really well too so always be mindful and then just ask so always be mindful and then just ask so always be mindful and then just ask somebody if like if you can pray with somebody if like if you can pray with somebody if like if you can pray with them and uh be a friend right doesn't them and uh be a friend right doesn't them and uh be a friend right doesn't you know doesn't matter if you're a mile you know doesn't matter if you're a mile you know doesn't matter if you're a mile away or a thousand miles away I think away or a thousand miles away I think away or a thousand miles away I think that's pretty important and if you take that's pretty important and if you take that's pretty important and if you take those uh

those uh those uh those nuggets what you just share with those nuggets what you just share with those nuggets what you just share with us Dave then thank you by the way us Dave then thank you by the way us Dave then thank you by the way um we probably know somebody um we probably know somebody um we probably know somebody from time to time that might be from time to time that might be from time to time that might be struggling with something or they we struggling with something or they we struggling with something or they we hear about somebody losing a loved one hear about somebody losing a loved one hear about somebody losing a loved one or something like that and that's going or something like that and that's going or something like that and that's going to be uh that's gonna be a sign right to be uh that's gonna be a sign right to be uh that's gonna be a sign right there to pay attention yeah there's there's a lot that goes yeah there's there's a lot that goes into you know the colleague uh into you know the colleague uh into you know the colleague uh accountability or colleague support you accountability or colleague support you accountability or colleague support you know we're very fortunate that we have know we're very fortunate that we have know we're very fortunate that we have worked intentionally or are working worked intentionally or are working worked intentionally or are working intentionally to have a intentionally to have a intentionally to have a corporate culture a work culture that corporate culture a work culture that corporate culture a work culture that allows people to to say I'm not okay allows people to to say I'm not okay allows people to to say I'm not okay today and we and we want that place to today and we and we want that place to today and we and we want that place to be safe you know if you're a if you're a be safe you know if you're a if you're a be safe you know if you're a if you're a staff member in a church we recognize staff member in a church we recognize staff member in a church we recognize that not all as much as we hate to say that not all as much as we hate to say that not all as much as we hate to say it not all Church staff environments are it not all Church staff environments are it not all Church staff environments are healthy environments the four of us have healthy environments the four of us have healthy environments the four of us have all worked in churches and experienced all worked in churches and experienced all worked in churches and experienced very different things you know David very different things you know David very different things you know David shared that uh you know some of his shared that uh you know some of his shared that uh you know some of his experience and I I know I know more of experience and I I know I know more of experience and I I know I know more of David's story than he actually told uh David's story than he actually told uh David's story than he actually told uh than he was sharing and you know some of than he was sharing and you know some of than he was sharing and you know some of it was a result of David being a high it was a result of David being a high it was a result of David being a high achiever and wanting to do well and some achiever and wanting to do well and some achiever and wanting to do well and some of it was not being in the healthiest uh of it was not being in the healthiest uh of it was not being in the healthiest uh work environment and I would say you work environment and I would say you work environment and I would say you know in my own personal experiences of know in my own personal experiences of know in my own personal experiences of depression and anxiety that came as a depression and anxiety that came as a depression and anxiety that came as a result of ministry work I was actually result of ministry work I was actually result of ministry work I was actually working in very health healthy working in very health healthy working in very health healthy environments I just put so much stinking environments I just put so much stinking environments I just put so much stinking pressure on myself that I drove myself

pressure on myself that I drove myself pressure on myself that I drove myself to a place of not being healthy but if to a place of not being healthy but if to a place of not being healthy but if you're a if you're a staff member in a you're a if you're a staff member in a you're a if you're a staff member in a church maybe it's not a safe place for church maybe it's not a safe place for church maybe it's not a safe place for you to share with your colleagues or you to share with your colleagues or you to share with your colleagues or your co-workers your co-workers your co-workers um which is a shame um which is a shame um which is a shame um and you definitely need to look for um and you definitely need to look for um and you definitely need to look for help outside of the work environment if help outside of the work environment if help outside of the work environment if you're a solo Pastor or a pastor with a you're a solo Pastor or a pastor with a you're a solo Pastor or a pastor with a small staff it might not necessarily be small staff it might not necessarily be small staff it might not necessarily be the right thing to do to share within the right thing to do to share within the right thing to do to share within your team but we hope that if you are a your team but we hope that if you are a your team but we hope that if you are a leader of a staff that you are working leader of a staff that you are working leader of a staff that you are working to create safety uh in your work to create safety uh in your work to create safety uh in your work environment so people can share when environment so people can share when environment so people can share when they're not doing well because the first they're not doing well because the first they're not doing well because the first step in getting better is always step in getting better is always step in getting better is always admitting that you need help to get admitting that you need help to get admitting that you need help to get better yeah I I know it it's it's a better yeah I I know it it's it's a better yeah I I know it it's it's a really obviously a very growing concern really obviously a very growing concern really obviously a very growing concern and in the inside the church staff uh and in the inside the church staff uh and in the inside the church staff uh because it you know I think it used to because it you know I think it used to because it you know I think it used to be be be kind of taboo to talk about it years ago kind of taboo to talk about it years ago kind of taboo to talk about it years ago but these days no you you need to but these days no you you need to but these days no you you need to address it address it address it um one of my good friends um one of my good friends um one of my good friends runs a Ministry called full strength runs a Ministry called full strength runs a Ministry called full strength Network Marty Sawyers and uh Marty and I Network Marty Sawyers and uh Marty and I Network Marty Sawyers and uh Marty and I are good friends I probably need to have are good friends I probably need to have are good friends I probably need to have them on the podcast part but full them on the podcast part but full them on the podcast part but full strength Network you should and check strength Network you should and check strength Network you should and check that out and and have your your that out and and have your your that out and and have your your leadership team check it out they offer leadership team check it out they offer leadership team check it out they offer churches a subscription where the church churches a subscription where the church churches a subscription where the church staff now has access private access to a staff now has access private access to a staff now has access private access to a counselor a certified license counselor a certified license counselor a certified license counselor and so uh that that doesn't

counselor and so uh that that doesn't counselor and so uh that that doesn't get reported back to the church they get reported back to the church they get reported back to the church they don't share numbers like oh we had David don't share numbers like oh we had David don't share numbers like oh we had David here he's had five sessions no they here he's had five sessions no they here he's had five sessions no they don't do any of that right that's it's don't do any of that right that's it's don't do any of that right that's it's private but the fact that the church private but the fact that the church private but the fact that the church knows that now the staff has a resource knows that now the staff has a resource knows that now the staff has a resource and an outlet to talk to somebody on a and an outlet to talk to somebody on a and an outlet to talk to somebody on a very confidential you know private level very confidential you know private level very confidential you know private level is growing uh but Marty has brought on is growing uh but Marty has brought on is growing uh but Marty has brought on he's the he's the CEO of the company he's the he's the CEO of the company he's the he's the CEO of the company he's brought on just hundreds and he's brought on just hundreds and he's brought on just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of churches and hundreds and hundreds of churches and hundreds and hundreds of churches and he's only been there for like a year he's only been there for like a year he's only been there for like a year because because because lead pastors executive pastors lead pastors executive pastors lead pastors executive pastors understand that this is a real issue and understand that this is a real issue and understand that this is a real issue and I need my staff and I I'm the same way I I need my staff and I I'm the same way I I need my staff and I I'm the same way I need these guys healthy I want them need these guys healthy I want them need these guys healthy I want them healthy for their family I want them healthy for their family I want them healthy for their family I want them right with God because when that's right right with God because when that's right right with God because when that's right then then they're gonna do the best they then then they're gonna do the best they then then they're gonna do the best they can here at missional marketing so it's can here at missional marketing so it's can here at missional marketing so it's it's both I I really really want them to it's both I I really really want them to it's both I I really really want them to get the kind of help they need and I a get the kind of help they need and I a get the kind of help they need and I a pastor has the same mentality or they pastor has the same mentality or they pastor has the same mentality or they should should should I hope they would have that same I hope they would have that same I hope they would have that same mentality that I want my staff mentality that I want my staff mentality that I want my staff um thriving um thriving um thriving you know and and I know they work hard you know and and I know they work hard you know and and I know they work hard we understand how hard Ministry is Right we understand how hard Ministry is Right we understand how hard Ministry is Right we've all worked in ministries we were we've all worked in ministries we were we've all worked in ministries we were like a bunch of hats and it never stops like a bunch of hats and it never stops like a bunch of hats and it never stops the show must go on and on and on and the show must go on and on and on and the show must go on and on and on and you really have to take that minute you you really have to take that minute you you really have to take that minute you got to take that time to to get to seek got to take that time to to get to seek got to take that time to to get to seek the help that that you need so full the help that that you need so full the help that that you need so full strength network is one of them and then strength network is one of them and then strength network is one of them and then uh Bart you want to explain another one

uh Bart you want to explain another one uh Bart you want to explain another one that you yeah our friend Dale Sellers that you yeah our friend Dale Sellers that you yeah our friend Dale Sellers and the folks over at the 95 Network and and the folks over at the 95 Network and and the folks over at the 95 Network and actually I think just this year launched actually I think just this year launched actually I think just this year launched um a component of the support that they um a component of the support that they um a component of the support that they provide for churches uh called Soul Care provide for churches uh called Soul Care provide for churches uh called Soul Care Essentials and if you just Google 95 Essentials and if you just Google 95 Essentials and if you just Google 95 Network I think their website is Network I think their website is Network I think their website is 95network.org uh there's a button on the 95network.org uh there's a button on the 95network.org uh there's a button on the home page that says Soul Care Essentials home page that says Soul Care Essentials home page that says Soul Care Essentials they exist to help the normal size they exist to help the normal size they exist to help the normal size Church in America they're called 95 Church in America they're called 95 Church in America they're called 95 Network because 95 of the churches in Network because 95 of the churches in Network because 95 of the churches in the country are under 500 people those the country are under 500 people those the country are under 500 people those are the churches that they are aiming to are the churches that they are aiming to are the churches that they are aiming to serve and they want to help church serve and they want to help church serve and they want to help church leaders be healthy they have committed leaders be healthy they have committed leaders be healthy they have committed so many much time energy and resource to so many much time energy and resource to so many much time energy and resource to helping churches get healthy but have helping churches get healthy but have helping churches get healthy but have come to the conclusion that a church come to the conclusion that a church come to the conclusion that a church cannot be healthy if the leader is not cannot be healthy if the leader is not cannot be healthy if the leader is not healthy and so they have a concerted healthy and so they have a concerted healthy and so they have a concerted effort to help leaders get healthy and effort to help leaders get healthy and effort to help leaders get healthy and the last thing that I want to I I want the last thing that I want to I I want the last thing that I want to I I want to mention and then I'll pass things to mention and then I'll pass things to mention and then I'll pass things back over to David and Zach for their back over to David and Zach for their back over to David and Zach for their parting shots parting shots parting shots um is if you are listening to this uh um is if you are listening to this uh um is if you are listening to this uh and you are struggling with thoughts of and you are struggling with thoughts of and you are struggling with thoughts of suicide self-harm 988 is the number you dial and you 988 is the number you dial and you should dial it right now should dial it right now should dial it right now um the someone whose life has been um the someone whose life has been um the someone whose life has been forever changed by Suicide uh it's not forever changed by Suicide uh it's not forever changed by Suicide uh it's not worth it it's a permanent solution to a worth it it's a permanent solution to a worth it it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem so 988 is the number temporary problem so 988 is the number temporary problem so 988 is the number that you dial David

yeah yeah um and just saying that uh man we love um and just saying that uh man we love um and just saying that uh man we love the church and and that's why we do what the church and and that's why we do what the church and and that's why we do what we do and that's where we do and that's where we do and that's where um um um my only thought that if you're in a my only thought that if you're in a my only thought that if you're in a church that isn't healthy and it's church that isn't healthy and it's church that isn't healthy and it's impacting your impacting your impacting your uh mental spiritual health it's okay to uh mental spiritual health it's okay to uh mental spiritual health it's okay to be honest with that and that's where I be honest with that and that's where I be honest with that and that's where I actually I mentioned the bar that I was actually I mentioned the bar that I was actually I mentioned the bar that I was in a church that at a certain point it in a church that at a certain point it in a church that at a certain point it was pushing me to unhealthy and there's was pushing me to unhealthy and there's was pushing me to unhealthy and there's a day where I got yelled at for no a day where I got yelled at for no a day where I got yelled at for no reason and I just kind of snapped and reason and I just kind of snapped and reason and I just kind of snapped and drove directly to a counselor and drove directly to a counselor and drove directly to a counselor and realized that I realized that I realized that I could not handle could not handle could not handle my being treated the way I was for one my being treated the way I was for one my being treated the way I was for one more day in my life that it was not more day in my life that it was not more day in my life that it was not worth being in a negative spot for even worth being in a negative spot for even worth being in a negative spot for even one more day and that's what I just you one more day and that's what I just you one more day and that's what I just you know for for some people out there just know for for some people out there just know for for some people out there just understanding that if you're in an understanding that if you're in an understanding that if you're in an unhealthy place and uh with an unhealthy unhealthy place and uh with an unhealthy unhealthy place and uh with an unhealthy unhealthy Church situation unhealthy Church situation unhealthy Church situation um understand that not every place is um understand that not every place is um understand that not every place is unhealthy and that you deserve to be in unhealthy and that you deserve to be in unhealthy and that you deserve to be in a place that treats you well or you are a place that treats you well or you are a place that treats you well or you are cared for where your family is cared for cared for where your family is cared for cared for where your family is cared for where your mental health is is is is where your mental health is is is is where your mental health is is is is cared for and and you deserve that you Zach

you Zach yeah I would yeah I would yeah I would um Echo that I think for me I came to a um Echo that I think for me I came to a um Echo that I think for me I came to a place where Ministry was causing more place where Ministry was causing more place where Ministry was causing more harm than than good in my life harm than than good in my life harm than than good in my life um I wasn't set up in a place um I wasn't set up in a place um I wasn't set up in a place um even internally to continue to handle um even internally to continue to handle um even internally to continue to handle those pressures and and all of us those pressures and and all of us those pressures and and all of us pastors we we joke that um we're good pastors we we joke that um we're good pastors we we joke that um we're good everything's fine we're blessed highly everything's fine we're blessed highly everything's fine we're blessed highly favored all the all of that but the favored all the all of that but the favored all the all of that but the reality is is that a lot of us never get reality is is that a lot of us never get reality is is that a lot of us never get to take off the hat we to take off the hat we to take off the hat we um go on vacation but if we're missing a um go on vacation but if we're missing a um go on vacation but if we're missing a service our mind knows exactly when service our mind knows exactly when service our mind knows exactly when service starts and when service ends service starts and when service ends service starts and when service ends um and we experience major extremes of um and we experience major extremes of um and we experience major extremes of emotions in in a moment I remember one emotions in in a moment I remember one emotions in in a moment I remember one time I went to a hospital and time I went to a hospital and time I went to a hospital and um was visiting someone that was um was visiting someone that was um was visiting someone that was probably about to go on hospice and then probably about to go on hospice and then probably about to go on hospice and then once I left that room I walked down the once I left that room I walked down the once I left that room I walked down the hallway and uh visited someone that just hallway and uh visited someone that just hallway and uh visited someone that just had a baby in our congregation and so had a baby in our congregation and so had a baby in our congregation and so the vast of emotions that we experience the vast of emotions that we experience the vast of emotions that we experience of people's lives that aren't even ours of people's lives that aren't even ours of people's lives that aren't even ours it doesn't even begin to touch the it doesn't even begin to touch the it doesn't even begin to touch the complexity that we experience and so complexity that we experience and so complexity that we experience and so there are points where you do have to there are points where you do have to there are points where you do have to make that leap of faith for me when I uh make that leap of faith for me when I uh make that leap of faith for me when I uh left full-time Ministry I didn't have a left full-time Ministry I didn't have a left full-time Ministry I didn't have a job I just knew I can't be here and do job I just knew I can't be here and do job I just knew I can't be here and do this anymore and it was one of those this anymore and it was one of those this anymore and it was one of those moments where I said Okay God we're moments where I said Okay God we're moments where I said Okay God we're gonna do this and if I make the this is gonna do this and if I make the this is gonna do this and if I make the this is the biggest mistake of my life then fix

the biggest mistake of my life then fix the biggest mistake of my life then fix it you can fix it and it actually wasn't it you can fix it and it actually wasn't it you can fix it and it actually wasn't a week later where I applied for a week later where I applied for a week later where I applied for missional marketing and then was able to missional marketing and then was able to missional marketing and then was able to begin working for Mission marketing when begin working for Mission marketing when begin working for Mission marketing when I left Ministry I had no idea what was I left Ministry I had no idea what was I left Ministry I had no idea what was next I knew I enjoyed the online next I knew I enjoyed the online next I knew I enjoyed the online component of of ministry I thr thrived component of of ministry I thr thrived component of of ministry I thr thrived in that that's where I found my passion in that that's where I found my passion in that that's where I found my passion and I knew I still loved the church and and I knew I still loved the church and and I knew I still loved the church and I allowed myself to release what the I allowed myself to release what the I allowed myself to release what the expectation of what Ministry is and it expectation of what Ministry is and it expectation of what Ministry is and it really ended up being a Saving Grace in really ended up being a Saving Grace in really ended up being a Saving Grace in my life where I found my passion again my life where I found my passion again my life where I found my passion again and able to have a stronger and further and able to have a stronger and further and able to have a stronger and further reach and influence in the king of God reach and influence in the king of God reach and influence in the king of God than what I did before than what I did before than what I did before um well yeah guys thank you very much um well yeah guys thank you very much um well yeah guys thank you very much for uh sharing your heart I know it's it for uh sharing your heart I know it's it for uh sharing your heart I know it's it takes a lot to come onto a podcast and takes a lot to come onto a podcast and takes a lot to come onto a podcast and and talk about and talk about and talk about you know your issues and so I I really you know your issues and so I I really you know your issues and so I I really appreciate that and I think everybody appreciate that and I think everybody appreciate that and I think everybody listening here would say the same thing listening here would say the same thing listening here would say the same thing and and um you've blessed us with this and and um you've blessed us with this and and um you've blessed us with this information and just some of the things information and just some of the things information and just some of the things you guys shared so you guys shared so you guys shared so super super grateful for both of you super super grateful for both of you super super grateful for both of you guys guys guys um and YouTube art um and YouTube art um and YouTube art um I I want to go back though my Parting um I I want to go back though my Parting um I I want to go back though my Parting Shot here would be what David um kind of Shot here would be what David um kind of Shot here would be what David um kind of what David said was hey it's okay you what David said was hey it's okay you what David said was hey it's okay you know it's okay to say is this not the know it's okay to say is this not the know it's okay to say is this not the most healthy spot for me to be in most healthy spot for me to be in most healthy spot for me to be in ministry right now does God have ministry right now does God have ministry right now does God have something else in mind and so it my something else in mind and so it my something else in mind and so it my words of wisdom are it's your words of wisdom are it's your words of wisdom are it's your relationship with God is number one in

relationship with God is number one in relationship with God is number one in your life number two is your family your life number two is your family your life number two is your family number three is your I guess the church number three is your I guess the church number three is your I guess the church but you can choose to cheat the church but you can choose to cheat the church but you can choose to cheat the church if it because if that interferes with if it because if that interferes with if it because if that interferes with one and two That's not healthy that's one and two That's not healthy that's one and two That's not healthy that's unhealthy and you gotta address that and unhealthy and you gotta address that and unhealthy and you gotta address that and um and really pray about that so because um and really pray about that so because um and really pray about that so because I know a lot of people who have had to I know a lot of people who have had to I know a lot of people who have had to struggle with that and that's always struggle with that and that's always struggle with that and that's always been my advice been my advice been my advice my advice so Bart my advice so Bart my advice so Bart That's it man thank you guys we That's it man thank you guys we That's it man thank you guys we appreciate you a ton and for those of appreciate you a ton and for those of appreciate you a ton and for those of you who are listening to the podcast if you who are listening to the podcast if you who are listening to the podcast if you stuck it all the way out to the end you stuck it all the way out to the end you stuck it all the way out to the end um God bless you we thank you for being um God bless you we thank you for being um God bless you we thank you for being uh being along on this journey with us a uh being along on this journey with us a uh being along on this journey with us a hundred episodes I recently heard a hundred episodes I recently heard a hundred episodes I recently heard a statistic that said something like you statistic that said something like you statistic that said something like you know 82 percent of all podcasts that get know 82 percent of all podcasts that get know 82 percent of all podcasts that get produced produce one episode and no more produced produce one episode and no more produced produce one episode and no more so the fact that we've gotten we've so the fact that we've gotten we've so the fact that we've gotten we've gotten to 100 that's saying a lot so uh gotten to 100 that's saying a lot so uh gotten to 100 that's saying a lot so uh Jason thanks for uh doing the show with Jason thanks for uh doing the show with Jason thanks for uh doing the show with me uh for 100 episodes and David and me uh for 100 episodes and David and me uh for 100 episodes and David and Zach thank you guys for being a part of Zach thank you guys for being a part of Zach thank you guys for being a part of our team and for sharing with us today our team and for sharing with us today our team and for sharing with us today thanks for having us thanks for having us thanks for having us foreign