Trends and Changes in Church Planting Post-COVID - Marc Cleary, ARC Churches

[Music] [Music] welcome to the church growth interviews welcome to the church growth interviews welcome to the church growth interviews podcast my name is bart blair and i am podcast my name is bart blair and i am podcast my name is bart blair and i am joined joined joined with my friend and uh missional with my friend and uh missional with my friend and uh missional marketing partner marketing partner marketing partner jason hamrock jason i'm so glad to see jason hamrock jason i'm so glad to see jason hamrock jason i'm so glad to see you you you it's good to see you too bart it's been it's good to see you too bart it's been it's good to see you too bart it's been a uh kind of a busy a uh kind of a busy a uh kind of a busy summer um here in 2021 and i've taken summer um here in 2021 and i've taken summer um here in 2021 and i've taken some time off to some time off to some time off to to be with my family and so i'm kind of to be with my family and so i'm kind of to be with my family and so i'm kind of back in the saddle and it's so good to back in the saddle and it's so good to back in the saddle and it's so good to see see see your face yeah it's it's been actually your face yeah it's it's been actually your face yeah it's it's been actually it's been a few weeks since it's been a few weeks since it's been a few weeks since we have been on a zoom call together for we have been on a zoom call together for we have been on a zoom call together for the purpose of the purpose of the purpose of podcasting we've had some zoom calls podcasting we've had some zoom calls podcasting we've had some zoom calls together for other things but uh you had together for other things but uh you had together for other things but uh you had family vacation family vacation family vacation you had wedding anniversary yeah 25 years she's put up with me 25 years 25 years she's put up with me 25 years yeah she's a good woman uh he yeah she's a good woman uh he yeah she's a good woman uh he you went to where did you go with your you went to where did you go with your you went to where did you go with your family on your trip we went up to utah family on your trip we went up to utah family on your trip we went up to utah uh if you haven't spent time in utah uh if you haven't spent time in utah uh if you haven't spent time in utah it's beautiful country so it's beautiful country so it's beautiful country so we live in arizona we drove up to moab we live in arizona we drove up to moab we live in arizona we drove up to moab uh which is a really cool area uh which is a really cool area uh which is a really cool area one of the coolest things we got to do one of the coolest things we got to do one of the coolest things we got to do there's this scene at forrest gump you there's this scene at forrest gump you there's this scene at forrest gump you know where he's running and he stops and know where he's running and he stops and know where he's running and he stops and he says okay i think i'm tired i'm ready he says okay i think i'm tired i'm ready he says okay i think i'm tired i'm ready to go home now to go home now to go home now there's that scene that's on that there's that scene that's on that there's that scene that's on that stretch of highway we went there stretch of highway we went there stretch of highway we went there we were driving through we stopped we we were driving through we stopped we we were driving through we stopped we all got out of the car all got out of the car all got out of the car and we took pictures of us with you know and we took pictures of us with you know and we took pictures of us with you know where forrest gump was standing with all where forrest gump was standing with all where forrest gump was standing with all that mountain behind him that mountain behind him that mountain behind him that's just kind of a cool thing that we that's just kind of a cool thing that we that's just kind of a cool thing that we did but on our way to moab did a lot of did but on our way to moab did a lot of did but on our way to moab did a lot of a lot of fun things and you should a lot of fun things and you should a lot of fun things and you should check it out if you're in that area yeah

check it out if you're in that area yeah check it out if you're in that area yeah that's cool my mother and stepfather that's cool my mother and stepfather that's cool my mother and stepfather lived in lived in lived in in the salt lake city area for a number in the salt lake city area for a number in the salt lake city area for a number of years and so of years and so of years and so most of the time when we went we went in most of the time when we went we went in most of the time when we went we went in the winter for the purpose of skiing the winter for the purpose of skiing the winter for the purpose of skiing because the skiing because the skiing because the skiing in utah is is pretty phenomenal you went in utah is is pretty phenomenal you went in utah is is pretty phenomenal you went in the summer in the summer in the summer not really skiing season but outdoorsy not really skiing season but outdoorsy not really skiing season but outdoorsy stuff there's times outdoorsy stuff stuff there's times outdoorsy stuff stuff there's times outdoorsy stuff in utah all year round and then you went in utah all year round and then you went in utah all year round and then you went away with sarah for your wedding away with sarah for your wedding away with sarah for your wedding anniversary you went to california is anniversary you went to california is anniversary you went to california is that where you that where you that where you went to southern california uh and i had went to southern california uh and i had went to southern california uh and i had a great time and just on the beach we a great time and just on the beach we a great time and just on the beach we were kind of beach bums were kind of beach bums were kind of beach bums for a few days and and just spent time for a few days and and just spent time for a few days and and just spent time uh uh uh together and and enjoying good food together and and enjoying good food together and and enjoying good food enjoying our company enjoying our company enjoying our company uh and and it was good to just kind of uh and and it was good to just kind of uh and and it was good to just kind of unplug and get away so i encourage unplug and get away so i encourage unplug and get away so i encourage everybody to do that everybody to do that everybody to do that every now and then but uh it was it was every now and then but uh it was it was every now and then but uh it was it was a fantastic fantastic trip a fantastic fantastic trip a fantastic fantastic trip that's great i'm glad you guys got the that's great i'm glad you guys got the that's great i'm glad you guys got the chance to do it now you're back chance to do it now you're back chance to do it now you're back in the rhythm of work and uh we've got a in the rhythm of work and uh we've got a in the rhythm of work and uh we've got a lot going on we've got a lot of stuff lot going on we've got a lot of stuff lot going on we've got a lot of stuff with a lot of churches going on with a lot of churches going on with a lot of churches going on the time that we're recording this it's the time that we're recording this it's the time that we're recording this it's the end of july we're already having the end of july we're already having the end of july we're already having lots of conversations with churches lots of conversations with churches lots of conversations with churches about what they have coming up in august about what they have coming up in august about what they have coming up in august and september and september and september and october with the fall and uh it's and october with the fall and uh it's and october with the fall and uh it's been really it's been really it's been been really it's been really it's been been really it's been really it's been exciting and it's been encouraging exciting and it's been encouraging exciting and it's been encouraging because because because in most parts of the country things are in most parts of the country things are in most parts of the country things are starting to feel starting to feel starting to feel more like normal in terms of church more like normal in terms of church more like normal in terms of church activity and church engagement activity and church engagement activity and church engagement i know that a lot of churches are still i know that a lot of churches are still i know that a lot of churches are still looking at their weekend attendance looking at their weekend attendance looking at their weekend attendance numbers and scratching their heads and numbers and scratching their heads and numbers and scratching their heads and they're saying they're saying they're saying hmm what do we what do we do uh how do hmm what do we what do we do uh how do hmm what do we what do we do uh how do we get people back we get people back we get people back i would say the average church i'm i would say the average church i'm i would say the average church i'm talking to is seeing 65 to 70 percent of

talking to is seeing 65 to 70 percent of talking to is seeing 65 to 70 percent of where they were pre-covered where they were pre-covered where they were pre-covered and uh knowing that there's you know and uh knowing that there's you know and uh knowing that there's you know knowing that there's room for knowing that there's room for knowing that there's room for improvement there but improvement there but improvement there but some of these churches that i'm talking some of these churches that i'm talking some of these churches that i'm talking to my church included the church that to my church included the church that to my church included the church that i'm a part of here i'm a part of here i'm a part of here even though our numbers are not back to even though our numbers are not back to even though our numbers are not back to where they were pre-covered we see that where they were pre-covered we see that where they were pre-covered we see that we're actually we're actually we're actually connecting with new people we still have connecting with new people we still have connecting with new people we still have new people coming out on a regular basis new people coming out on a regular basis new people coming out on a regular basis so so so um that's pretty cool so as our list as um that's pretty cool so as our list as um that's pretty cool so as our list as a listener or viewer of this podcast a listener or viewer of this podcast a listener or viewer of this podcast wherever wherever wherever you are in this journey hope and pray you are in this journey hope and pray you are in this journey hope and pray that uh your um that uh your um that uh your um covet 19 season of ministry is covet 19 season of ministry is covet 19 season of ministry is is changing for the better that things is changing for the better that things is changing for the better that things are finally starting to are finally starting to are finally starting to to be good and to be normal for you um to be good and to be normal for you um to be good and to be normal for you um and jason i'm glad that you got a chance and jason i'm glad that you got a chance and jason i'm glad that you got a chance to get away that was that's it to get away that was that's it to get away that was that's it it was refreshing everybody everybody it was refreshing everybody everybody it was refreshing everybody everybody needs to do that well hey today needs to do that well hey today needs to do that well hey today um we're doing this is a little um we're doing this is a little um we're doing this is a little different because while you were on your different because while you were on your different because while you were on your break having your vacation i recorded a break having your vacation i recorded a break having your vacation i recorded a podcast interview without you podcast interview without you podcast interview without you first time we've done that you've done first time we've done that you've done first time we've done that you've done quite a few without me this is the first quite a few without me this is the first quite a few without me this is the first one that i've ever done without you one that i've ever done without you one that i've ever done without you and i had the opportunity to interview and i had the opportunity to interview and i had the opportunity to interview mark cleary who is the director of mark cleary who is the director of mark cleary who is the director of church planting church planting church planting for ark churches and mark in the for ark churches and mark in the for ark churches and mark in the interview interview interview gives a a bit of a background on art uh gives a a bit of a background on art uh gives a a bit of a background on art uh how it got how it got how it got started how he got involved with church started how he got involved with church started how he got involved with church planting and with the ark planting and with the ark planting and with the ark organization uh which is is really uh organization uh which is is really uh organization uh which is is really uh it's probably not the largest church it's probably not the largest church it's probably not the largest church planting organization planting organization planting organization in our country but is very effective and in our country but is very effective and in our country but is very effective and you'd be hard-pressed to find many major you'd be hard-pressed to find many major you'd be hard-pressed to find many major cities across the country that don't cities across the country that don't cities across the country that don't have have have an ark planted church in them and

an ark planted church in them and an ark planted church in them and so you know i'm not going to give a so you know i'm not going to give a so you know i'm not going to give a whole lot of detail away about the whole lot of detail away about the whole lot of detail away about the interview because i want our listeners interview because i want our listeners interview because i want our listeners to listen to listen to listen um but mark and i had a great um but mark and i had a great um but mark and i had a great conversation about some things related conversation about some things related conversation about some things related to to to how how covet 19 has impacted church how how covet 19 has impacted church how how covet 19 has impacted church planters planters planters specifically as it relates to things specifically as it relates to things specifically as it relates to things like fundraising like fundraising like fundraising facility use um you know a lot a lot of facility use um you know a lot a lot of facility use um you know a lot a lot of church plants use rented spaces like church plants use rented spaces like church plants use rented spaces like schools or community centers or ymcas schools or community centers or ymcas schools or community centers or ymcas movie theaters movie theaters movie theaters he talked a bit about uh about what kind he talked a bit about uh about what kind he talked a bit about uh about what kind of changes and things he's seen of changes and things he's seen of changes and things he's seen come out of covid as a result of of come out of covid as a result of of come out of covid as a result of of you know of that whole season uh you you know of that whole season uh you you know of that whole season uh you know i'm know i'm know i'm we we have churches that we partner with we we have churches that we partner with we we have churches that we partner with emissional marketing that are church emissional marketing that are church emissional marketing that are church plants that plants that plants that you know launched right before covet or you know launched right before covet or you know launched right before covet or within a year or two within a year or two within a year or two and they're still not back into the and they're still not back into the and they're still not back into the facilities that they were using facilities that they were using facilities that they were using prior to kovid prior to kovid prior to kovid one of the things i thought was one of the things i thought was one of the things i thought was interesting about our conversation is interesting about our conversation is interesting about our conversation is that that that mark talks about and differentiates the mark talks about and differentiates the mark talks about and differentiates the difference between difference between difference between trends and fads in church planting trends and fads in church planting trends and fads in church planting as a result of covid we're seeing some as a result of covid we're seeing some as a result of covid we're seeing some things change and so it's things change and so it's things change and so it's important i think as as church planters important i think as as church planters important i think as as church planters and pastors to look at and pastors to look at and pastors to look at changes that are happening in the changes that are happening in the changes that are happening in the landscape and kind of landscape and kind of landscape and kind of figure out are these things going to be figure out are these things going to be figure out are these things going to be long-term changes in the church a long-term changes in the church a long-term changes in the church a trend that will actually impact the trend that will actually impact the trend that will actually impact the church in a positive way long-term church in a positive way long-term church in a positive way long-term or is it a fad something that's kind of or is it a fad something that's kind of or is it a fad something that's kind of happening seasonally now and so happening seasonally now and so happening seasonally now and so uh mark shares some some insight into uh mark shares some some insight into uh mark shares some some insight into to some of those ideas which i thought to some of those ideas which i thought to some of those ideas which i thought was was uh was very insightful so

was was uh was very insightful so was was uh was very insightful so jason i'm sorry that you didn't get to jason i'm sorry that you didn't get to jason i'm sorry that you didn't get to be a part of this great conversation be a part of this great conversation be a part of this great conversation with mark with mark with mark but uh you get to listen to my but uh you get to listen to my but uh you get to listen to my conversation with mark conversation with mark conversation with mark are you ready are you ready to listen to are you ready are you ready to listen to are you ready are you ready to listen to my conversation with mark cleary my conversation with mark cleary my conversation with mark cleary let's do it all right here's my let's do it all right here's my let's do it all right here's my interview with mark cleary from mark interview with mark cleary from mark interview with mark cleary from mark churches hey mark cleary thanks so much churches hey mark cleary thanks so much churches hey mark cleary thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today i am for joining me on the podcast today i am for joining me on the podcast today i am excited to have this conversation with excited to have this conversation with excited to have this conversation with you about you about you about ark and church planting and uh you're ark and church planting and uh you're ark and church planting and uh you're just going to download everything that just going to download everything that just going to download everything that you know you know you know so that our listeners our viewers are so that our listeners our viewers are so that our listeners our viewers are well informed about well informed about well informed about the landscape of church planting in the landscape of church planting in the landscape of church planting in covid post covet and whatever that's covid post covet and whatever that's covid post covet and whatever that's going to look like look like look like going to look like look like look like going to look like look like look like whatever kind of stuff we unravel today whatever kind of stuff we unravel today whatever kind of stuff we unravel today yes indeed thanks bart i really yes indeed thanks bart i really yes indeed thanks bart i really appreciate the opportunity and honored appreciate the opportunity and honored appreciate the opportunity and honored uh to be a part and share a little bit uh to be a part and share a little bit uh to be a part and share a little bit about arc about arc about arc and my role in it and hopefully uh we and my role in it and hopefully uh we and my role in it and hopefully uh we can help someone out there that's uh can help someone out there that's uh can help someone out there that's uh listening listening listening okay so we're gonna clarify the accent okay so we're gonna clarify the accent okay so we're gonna clarify the accent that we're hearing that we're hearing that we're hearing is kind of a combination of southern is kind of a combination of southern is kind of a combination of southern louisiana louisiana louisiana and and alabama alabama twang now and and alabama alabama twang now and and alabama alabama twang now yeah alabama twang okay so you were in yeah alabama twang okay so you were in yeah alabama twang okay so you were in birmingham birmingham birmingham yep live in birmingham alabama now the yep live in birmingham alabama now the yep live in birmingham alabama now the last seven plus years most of my last seven plus years most of my last seven plus years most of my childhood and early adult years in childhood and early adult years in childhood and early adult years in in louisiana central and uh north and in louisiana central and uh north and in louisiana central and uh north and south louisiana kind of all over the south louisiana kind of all over the south louisiana kind of all over the state so a little state so a little state so a little southern mix there on the on the accent southern mix there on the on the accent southern mix there on the on the accent nice why don't you tell us a little bit nice why don't you tell us a little bit nice why don't you tell us a little bit about your background your ministry about your background your ministry about your background your ministry background and just kind of lead us into background and just kind of lead us into background and just kind of lead us into what you're doing with art what you're doing with art what you're doing with art yeah i'll tell i'll tell a little bit yeah i'll tell i'll tell a little bit yeah i'll tell i'll tell a little bit about ark and then kind of go into into about ark and then kind of go into into about ark and then kind of go into into my role there uh because really my role there uh because really my role there uh because really my role in ministry is is ark's journey

my role in ministry is is ark's journey my role in ministry is is ark's journey as well in so many ways you know arc is as well in so many ways you know arc is as well in so many ways you know arc is a church planning a church planning a church planning organization we're celebrating 20 years organization we're celebrating 20 years organization we're celebrating 20 years right now right now right now founded by a group of friends that said founded by a group of friends that said founded by a group of friends that said hey instead of hey instead of hey instead of tackling one individual request from a tackling one individual request from a tackling one individual request from a church planner after another church planner after another church planner after another why don't we do something together here why don't we do something together here why don't we do something together here kind of pull our resources kind of pull our resources kind of pull our resources of how we do church and then also our of how we do church and then also our of how we do church and then also our financial resources to invest in those financial resources to invest in those financial resources to invest in those church planters and church planters and church planters and see what god does and 20 years later see what god does and 20 years later see what god does and 20 years later it's 961 church plants and it's 961 church plants and it's 961 church plants and god has done an amazing work average god has done an amazing work average god has done an amazing work average launch size on those church plants is a launch size on those church plants is a launch size on those church plants is a little over 300 little over 300 little over 300 in the history of ark so we we just in the history of ark so we we just in the history of ark so we we just thank god for that and it thank god for that and it thank god for that and it you know launching a large type model you know launching a large type model you know launching a large type model church like that just helps church like that just helps church like that just helps reach that community even quicker and reach that community even quicker and reach that community even quicker and increase that influence and increase that influence and increase that influence and been very thankful to see uh right been very thankful to see uh right been very thankful to see uh right around 92 93 around 92 93 around 92 93 of those churches still open and growing of those churches still open and growing of those churches still open and growing in baptisms and salvations and in baptisms and salvations and in baptisms and salvations and in growth in other areas too five five in growth in other areas too five five in growth in other areas too five five plus years kind of after we helped plus years kind of after we helped plus years kind of after we helped launch them but launch them but launch them but we exist to identify not a call of god we exist to identify not a call of god we exist to identify not a call of god on a church planter's life but identify on a church planter's life but identify on a church planter's life but identify if they're a fit for the model that we if they're a fit for the model that we if they're a fit for the model that we teach and teach and teach and if they like us and we like them then we if they like us and we like them then we if they like us and we like them then we we help coach them invest in them uh we help coach them invest in them uh we help coach them invest in them uh with our with our with our training and our curriculum and then training and our curriculum and then training and our curriculum and then also financially they also financially they also financially they they choose as well and it's been it's they choose as well and it's been it's they choose as well and it's been it's been a fun mix been a fun mix been a fun mix um we we're not a denomination um um we we're not a denomination um um we we're not a denomination um so we're able to serve denominations and so we're able to serve denominations and so we're able to serve denominations and church planting networks so we've church planting networks so we've church planting networks so we've planted planted planted a variety of churches denominationally

a variety of churches denominationally a variety of churches denominationally non-denominationally and try to just non-denominationally and try to just non-denominationally and try to just serve the body in christ serve the body in christ serve the body in christ as a whole and we're excited to we're as a whole and we're excited to we're as a whole and we're excited to we're excited to see excited to see excited to see uh celebrate all that god has done and uh celebrate all that god has done and uh celebrate all that god has done and excited to see what god is doing moving excited to see what god is doing moving excited to see what god is doing moving forward 20 plus years now forward 20 plus years now forward 20 plus years now um what does mark what mark what does um what does mark what mark what does um what does mark what mark what does ark stand for explain that ark stand for explain that ark stand for explain that association of related churches association of related churches association of related churches association of related churches so association of related churches so association of related churches so when an art church is planted do those when an art church is planted do those when an art church is planted do those churches stay in relationship with each churches stay in relationship with each churches stay in relationship with each other or with other or with other or with the the overarching organization what the the overarching organization what the the overarching organization what does that look like does that look like does that look like yeah so we we describe ourselves as a yeah so we we describe ourselves as a yeah so we we describe ourselves as a family now you know family now you know family now you know some people say well you can't really some people say well you can't really some people say well you can't really say your family and this and that say your family and this and that say your family and this and that and i said look we got our issues we're and i said look we got our issues we're and i said look we got our issues we're not perfect but i've never met a family not perfect but i've never met a family not perfect but i've never met a family that is so that is so that is so and you know a family consists of a mom and you know a family consists of a mom and you know a family consists of a mom and a dad a grandparent and uncle cousin and a dad a grandparent and uncle cousin and a dad a grandparent and uncle cousin so that's kind of what arc is so you so that's kind of what arc is so you so that's kind of what arc is so you know to answer your question we can we know to answer your question we can we know to answer your question we can we can can can end up carrying on that friendship and end up carrying on that friendship and end up carrying on that friendship and that relationship forever and ever past that relationship forever and ever past that relationship forever and ever past that actual launch day that actual launch day that actual launch day of that church or it could be that we of that church or it could be that we of that church or it could be that we just serve them in the short term and just serve them in the short term and just serve them in the short term and we're just the we're just the we're just the distant cousin that we only see every 10 distant cousin that we only see every 10 distant cousin that we only see every 10 years at the family reunion so years at the family reunion so years at the family reunion so it's kind of both and okay so it's kind of both and okay so it's kind of both and okay so tell a little bit about tell us a little tell a little bit about tell us a little tell a little bit about tell us a little bit about your ministry background and bit about your ministry background and bit about your ministry background and how you ended up in the role at arc that how you ended up in the role at arc that how you ended up in the role at arc that you you you are filling right now so after i are filling right now so after i are filling right now so after i graduated got my undergrad degree graduated got my undergrad degree graduated got my undergrad degree um i moved down to baton rouge louisiana um i moved down to baton rouge louisiana um i moved down to baton rouge louisiana and uh and uh and uh followed my soon-to-be wife and her followed my soon-to-be wife and her followed my soon-to-be wife and her family that relocated down there as well family that relocated down there as well family that relocated down there as well we started attending a church called we started attending a church called we started attending a church called healing place church pastored by dino

healing place church pastored by dino healing place church pastored by dino and delene rizzo and delene rizzo and delene rizzo pastor dino um i sold him a next pastor dino um i sold him a next pastor dino um i sold him a next telephone telephone telephone back in the day next telephone and got back in the day next telephone and got back in the day next telephone and got to know him through that to know him through that to know him through that and he ended up offering me a position and he ended up offering me a position and he ended up offering me a position on staff with the church working in the on staff with the church working in the on staff with the church working in the youth ministry there youth ministry there youth ministry there a couple years later he asked me to a couple years later he asked me to a couple years later he asked me to serve as kind of a dual row between an serve as kind of a dual row between an serve as kind of a dual row between an executive assistant and a executive assistant and a executive assistant and a executive pastor with him and part of executive pastor with him and part of executive pastor with him and part of that that that included the initial conversations about included the initial conversations about included the initial conversations about starting a church planning organization starting a church planning organization starting a church planning organization with a group of with a group of with a group of friends in order to try to impact the friends in order to try to impact the friends in order to try to impact the kingdom through that so kingdom through that so kingdom through that so he was one of the founders of ark and he was one of the founders of ark and he was one of the founders of ark and uh one of the only founders that uh one of the only founders that uh one of the only founders that actually had a actually had a actually had a growing church at the time so he lent my growing church at the time so he lent my growing church at the time so he lent my time early on to some of the time early on to some of the time early on to some of the administrative needs of arc and then administrative needs of arc and then administrative needs of arc and then eventually that grew into eventually that grew into eventually that grew into helping me helping with the annual helping me helping with the annual helping me helping with the annual conference that we do and then i started conference that we do and then i started conference that we do and then i started developing kind of a developing kind of a developing kind of a donor care type partner care strategy donor care type partner care strategy donor care type partner care strategy for churches after they launched through for churches after they launched through for churches after they launched through ark and ark and ark and currently i oversee i guess for the last currently i oversee i guess for the last currently i oversee i guess for the last three years now three years now three years now oversee all of our church planning oversee all of our church planning oversee all of our church planning activities um as well as activities um as well as activities um as well as you know some other stuff so i've done you know some other stuff so i've done you know some other stuff so i've done youth ministry youth ministry youth ministry executive pastor and then now been full executive pastor and then now been full executive pastor and then now been full time with ark for the past uh time with ark for the past uh time with ark for the past uh seven plus years okay so you you have a seven plus years okay so you you have a seven plus years okay so you you have a i guess a front row seat to a lot of i guess a front row seat to a lot of i guess a front row seat to a lot of churches that have been planted over the churches that have been planted over the churches that have been planted over the last number of years last number of years last number of years um and and obviously last year was kind um and and obviously last year was kind um and and obviously last year was kind of a it was a wonky one of a it was a wonky one of a it was a wonky one um and you know i'm i'm connected with a um and you know i'm i'm connected with a um and you know i'm i'm connected with a couple of guys that

couple of guys that couple of guys that you know my neighbor being one of them i you know my neighbor being one of them i you know my neighbor being one of them i have a neighbor across the street that have a neighbor across the street that have a neighbor across the street that planted a church uh you know six months planted a church uh you know six months planted a church uh you know six months before covet hit before covet hit before covet hit i've got another church planter that i i've got another church planter that i i've got another church planter that i work with that planted like two or three work with that planted like two or three work with that planted like two or three months months months before covet hit and you know they're before covet hit and you know they're before covet hit and you know they're coming out of it okay it's been a lot of coming out of it okay it's been a lot of coming out of it okay it's been a lot of work it was work it was work it was you know in some cases kind of like you know in some cases kind of like you know in some cases kind of like re-launching um re-launching um re-launching um what are some of the things that that what are some of the things that that what are some of the things that that you saw over you saw over you saw over the course of the last year the last 15 the course of the last year the last 15 the course of the last year the last 15 months or so um and and months or so um and and months or so um and and what kind of impact do you think that's what kind of impact do you think that's what kind of impact do you think that's going to have on church planting going going to have on church planting going going to have on church planting going forward in terms of forward in terms of forward in terms of strategies new things we're learning strategies new things we're learning strategies new things we're learning shifts shifts shifts in some of our approach what what kind in some of our approach what what kind in some of our approach what what kind of things are you seeing or anticipating of things are you seeing or anticipating of things are you seeing or anticipating yeah you know i was at a church plant yeah you know i was at a church plant yeah you know i was at a church plant that first weekend in march that first weekend in march that first weekend in march in 2020 and they had their second sunday in 2020 and they had their second sunday in 2020 and they had their second sunday and then they haven't met again yet um and then they haven't met again yet um and then they haven't met again yet um except for online right so church except for online right so church except for online right so church planners have really planners have really planners have really dealt with the pandemic unbelievably dealt with the pandemic unbelievably dealt with the pandemic unbelievably well in my opinion well in my opinion well in my opinion uh obviously there's been challenge uh obviously there's been challenge uh obviously there's been challenge after challenge but after challenge but after challenge but the flexibility uh that i've seen uh the the flexibility uh that i've seen uh the the flexibility uh that i've seen uh the shift and how we how church planners shift and how we how church planners shift and how we how church planners adapted adapted adapted um in the area of leadership development um in the area of leadership development um in the area of leadership development and fundraising and fundraising and fundraising um and outreach and just um and outreach and just um and outreach and just digital church and how that was always a digital church and how that was always a digital church and how that was always a thing but then it became a way more thing but then it became a way more thing but then it became a way more important thing that you put a lot more important thing that you put a lot more important thing that you put a lot more effort into effort into effort into engagement you know all those things engagement you know all those things engagement you know all those things i really believe that god has used the i really believe that god has used the i really believe that god has used the last 18 months or so to prepare those last 18 months or so to prepare those last 18 months or so to prepare those church planters and the church in church planters and the church in church planters and the church in general

general general for the revival and the harvest that's for the revival and the harvest that's for the revival and the harvest that's coming next out of the pandemic as well coming next out of the pandemic as well coming next out of the pandemic as well it's going to look different we know it's going to look different we know it's going to look different we know that i think there's that i think there's that i think there's always going to be a percentage of always going to be a percentage of always going to be a percentage of people now that may not return to a people now that may not return to a people now that may not return to a large gathering for whatever reasons large gathering for whatever reasons large gathering for whatever reasons that they that they that they they choose but i also believe that they choose but i also believe that they choose but i also believe that there is a core group of leaders within there is a core group of leaders within there is a core group of leaders within these churches that these church these churches that these church these churches that these church planters and existing churches are planters and existing churches are planters and existing churches are developing developing developing um that are going to really um reap the um that are going to really um reap the um that are going to really um reap the harvest of harvest of harvest of of the of the need for people of the of the need for people of the of the need for people um to be together and seek um to be together and seek um to be together and seek the one that created them and has a the one that created them and has a the one that created them and has a purpose for their life purpose for their life purpose for their life so um there's obviously been a shift so um there's obviously been a shift so um there's obviously been a shift we've seen it in the church planning we've seen it in the church planning we've seen it in the church planning side of things how we engage with our side of things how we engage with our side of things how we engage with our church planners church planners church planners was way different over the last 18 plus was way different over the last 18 plus was way different over the last 18 plus months than than before months than than before months than than before it was different you know it was it was different you know it was it was different you know it was different whether where where you lived different whether where where you lived different whether where where you lived on and what the on and what the on and what the restrictions were and how bad the restrictions were and how bad the restrictions were and how bad the pandemic was and did you have a venue pandemic was and did you have a venue pandemic was and did you have a venue already did you not have a venue already already did you not have a venue already already did you not have a venue already um what equipment did you have um you um what equipment did you have um you um what equipment did you have um you know know know uh on on hand you know to do digital uh on on hand you know to do digital uh on on hand you know to do digital church what were you able to secure church what were you able to secure church what were you able to secure what tips and tricks did you learn along what tips and tricks did you learn along what tips and tricks did you learn along the way you know as well the way you know as well the way you know as well it all was different it wasn't a it all was different it wasn't a it all was different it wasn't a one-size-fits-all fit fit all which are one-size-fits-all fit fit all which are one-size-fits-all fit fit all which are you know we have a track that we teach you know we have a track that we teach you know we have a track that we teach prior to the pandemic pretty much you prior to the pandemic pretty much you prior to the pandemic pretty much you contextualize some things to where you contextualize some things to where you contextualize some things to where you live but it was a one-size-fits-all type live but it was a one-size-fits-all type live but it was a one-size-fits-all type curriculum curriculum curriculum uh what we were able to see is uh and uh what we were able to see is uh and uh what we were able to see is uh and learned so much was learned so much was learned so much was during the pandemic was that you know it

during the pandemic was that you know it during the pandemic was that you know it shifted and changed shifted and changed shifted and changed uh differently for for our church uh differently for for our church uh differently for for our church planners where they were planners where they were planners where they were but it was amazing how they quickly but it was amazing how they quickly but it was amazing how they quickly learn and adapted from each other or learn and adapted from each other or learn and adapted from each other or from their local community on how to from their local community on how to from their local community on how to continue to continue to continue to to to reach people you know for christ to to reach people you know for christ to to reach people you know for christ during this time during this time during this time yeah i think you know some of the things yeah i think you know some of the things yeah i think you know some of the things that i saw venues were definitely that i saw venues were definitely that i saw venues were definitely a challenging thing for churches and a challenging thing for churches and a challenging thing for churches and even in some areas where even in some areas where even in some areas where you know some of those restrictions have you know some of those restrictions have you know some of those restrictions have been lifted and churches can meet again been lifted and churches can meet again been lifted and churches can meet again some churches were meeting in movie some churches were meeting in movie some churches were meeting in movie theaters or meeting in schools or ymcas theaters or meeting in schools or ymcas theaters or meeting in schools or ymcas some of these other venues are no longer some of these other venues are no longer some of these other venues are no longer or at least or at least or at least have not yet allowed renters or tenants have not yet allowed renters or tenants have not yet allowed renters or tenants back into those spaces and i see that back into those spaces and i see that back into those spaces and i see that you know kind of see that across the the you know kind of see that across the the you know kind of see that across the the board i see a lot of churches board i see a lot of churches board i see a lot of churches borrowing other churches you know church borrowing other churches you know church borrowing other churches you know church plants borrowing other plants borrowing other plants borrowing other established churches buildings for you established churches buildings for you established churches buildings for you know saturday night services or know saturday night services or know saturday night services or sunday night gatherings or something of sunday night gatherings or something of sunday night gatherings or something of that nature uh even have a church that nature uh even have a church that nature uh even have a church locally here in the dallas area that uh locally here in the dallas area that uh locally here in the dallas area that uh um opened its basically its uh recording um opened its basically its uh recording um opened its basically its uh recording studio studio studio to let a couple of church planters to let a couple of church planters to let a couple of church planters record their sermons record their sermons record their sermons um in their studio just because they um in their studio just because they um in their studio just because they knew that these church planters knew that these church planters knew that these church planters had no other place to do it other than had no other place to do it other than had no other place to do it other than their living room which isn't their living room which isn't their living room which isn't necessarily always bad but necessarily always bad but necessarily always bad but some of these church planters have small some of these church planters have small some of these church planters have small children running around their houses and children running around their houses and children running around their houses and so so so preaching a sermon in the living room preaching a sermon in the living room preaching a sermon in the living room it's a little bit complicated sometimes it's a little bit complicated sometimes it's a little bit complicated sometimes um yeah definitely a very very um yeah definitely a very very um yeah definitely a very very challenging year uh it sounds like challenging year uh it sounds like challenging year uh it sounds like though though though you've seen a lot of creativity in some you've seen a lot of creativity in some you've seen a lot of creativity in some of the things that that some of these

of the things that that some of these of the things that that some of these church planters do i'm gonna put you on church planters do i'm gonna put you on church planters do i'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you a question if you the spot and ask you a question if you the spot and ask you a question if you can't answer it that's okay but can't answer it that's okay but can't answer it that's okay but what's what are what are some of the what's what are what are some of the what's what are what are some of the most creative things that you saw most creative things that you saw most creative things that you saw church planters do during covid to kind church planters do during covid to kind church planters do during covid to kind of keep their of keep their of keep their core group connected or their launch core group connected or their launch core group connected or their launch team or you know if they were a team or you know if they were a team or you know if they were a relatively young church relatively young church relatively young church and all of a sudden they're no longer and all of a sudden they're no longer and all of a sudden they're no longer able to meet together what what are some able to meet together what what are some able to meet together what what are some of the creative things that you saw of the creative things that you saw of the creative things that you saw churches do churches do churches do some of the coolest things that we saw some of the coolest things that we saw some of the coolest things that we saw in creative was the the virtual uh in creative was the the virtual uh in creative was the the virtual uh dinner dates or virtual meetings that dinner dates or virtual meetings that dinner dates or virtual meetings that they did so we had one of our church they did so we had one of our church they did so we had one of our church planters planters planters uh came up with an idea that on a couple uh came up with an idea that on a couple uh came up with an idea that on a couple days of the week they would order pizza days of the week they would order pizza days of the week they would order pizza have it delivered have it delivered have it delivered you know to the door touchless you know you know to the door touchless you know you know to the door touchless you know right on the door that right on the door that right on the door that they knocked and then they would they they knocked and then they would they they knocked and then they would they would get the phone call would get the phone call would get the phone call from that uh pastor or that you know from that uh pastor or that you know from that uh pastor or that you know church planter church planter church planter and they would eat together and talk and they would eat together and talk and they would eat together and talk together over together over together over dinner um virtually um i thought that dinner um virtually um i thought that dinner um virtually um i thought that was was was that was one of the most unique ones that was one of the most unique ones that was one of the most unique ones that was kind of multiplied throughout that was kind of multiplied throughout that was kind of multiplied throughout not just pizza but other not just pizza but other not just pizza but other other kind of food items or whatever you other kind of food items or whatever you other kind of food items or whatever you know through the all the food delivery know through the all the food delivery know through the all the food delivery uh grocery delivery as well um really uh grocery delivery as well um really uh grocery delivery as well um really what i saw was people what i saw was people what i saw was people church planters utilizing uh what was church planters utilizing uh what was church planters utilizing uh what was out there out there out there in order to do it one very unique in order to do it one very unique in order to do it one very unique fundraising fundraising fundraising idea that i saw was we had a church idea that i saw was we had a church idea that i saw was we had a church planner of ours planner of ours planner of ours take the game monopoly and customize it take the game monopoly and customize it take the game monopoly and customize it and he put different church leaders and he put different church leaders and he put different church leaders names names names on the board with their cities and on the board with their cities and on the board with their cities and their church uh names as their you know

their church uh names as their you know their church uh names as their you know addresses so addresses so addresses so you know boardwalk and park place were you know boardwalk and park place were you know boardwalk and park place were replaced by you know replaced by you know replaced by you know um you know greg serrat and chris hodges um you know greg serrat and chris hodges um you know greg serrat and chris hodges kind of you know kind of you know kind of you know kind of thing and td jake's you know kind of thing and td jake's you know kind of thing and td jake's you know kind of dealing mailed these kind of dealing mailed these kind of dealing mailed these out to all of these churches so when out to all of these churches so when out to all of these churches so when they opened it up it was called they opened it up it was called they opened it up it was called churchopoly churchopoly churchopoly and when he opened it up they saw their and when he opened it up they saw their and when he opened it up they saw their faces and you know their fellow friends faces and you know their fellow friends faces and you know their fellow friends and constituents and peers and whatnot and constituents and peers and whatnot and constituents and peers and whatnot on there as well on there as well on there as well and he had his vision pack in there and and he had his vision pack in there and and he had his vision pack in there and whatever and whatever and whatever and raised quite a bit you know uh during raised quite a bit you know uh during raised quite a bit you know uh during during that time where fundraising was during that time where fundraising was during that time where fundraising was a very uh very hard challenge to to a very uh very hard challenge to to a very uh very hard challenge to to overcome overcome overcome you know for church planners yeah that you know for church planners yeah that you know for church planners yeah that is that's that's very creative i'd like is that's that's very creative i'd like is that's that's very creative i'd like to get my hands on a cop a copy of to get my hands on a cop a copy of to get my hands on a cop a copy of churchopoly that's pretty cool churchopoly that's pretty cool churchopoly that's pretty cool one of the things i saw uh a church one of the things i saw uh a church one of the things i saw uh a church replanter do replanter do replanter do uh was uh i thought it was you know it uh was uh i thought it was you know it uh was uh i thought it was you know it didn't take anything technical but he didn't take anything technical but he didn't take anything technical but he realized that you know he had these realized that you know he had these realized that you know he had these people that he people that he people that he wasn't going to be able to see other wasn't going to be able to see other wasn't going to be able to see other than a zoom call we were all a little than a zoom call we were all a little than a zoom call we were all a little you know burned out on zoom calls very you know burned out on zoom calls very you know burned out on zoom calls very quickly uh he and his wife literally quickly uh he and his wife literally quickly uh he and his wife literally just put just put just put lawn chairs in the back of their car and lawn chairs in the back of their car and lawn chairs in the back of their car and they drove around they drove around they drove around to the homes of the people that were in to the homes of the people that were in to the homes of the people that were in their church and their church and their church and they pulled out their lawn chairs sat in they pulled out their lawn chairs sat in they pulled out their lawn chairs sat in the driveway or the front yard the driveway or the front yard the driveway or the front yard while the family or the couple that they while the family or the couple that they while the family or the couple that they were meeting with would sit on the front were meeting with would sit on the front were meeting with would sit on the front porch and they would you know sit 15 or porch and they would you know sit 15 or porch and they would you know sit 15 or 20 feet 20 feet 20 feet away from each other and just engage and away from each other and just engage and away from each other and just engage and have a conversation because have a conversation because have a conversation because they just they weren't able to get that they just they weren't able to get that they just they weren't able to get that and i thought you know and i thought you know and i thought you know so simple you know i mean in a small so simple you know i mean in a small so simple you know i mean in a small church context or a church plant context

church context or a church plant context church context or a church plant context when you've only when you've only when you've only got a few dozen people or you know your got a few dozen people or you know your got a few dozen people or you know your your numbers are relatively your numbers are relatively your numbers are relatively uh small you're able to do that but uh small you're able to do that but uh small you're able to do that but those personal contacts those personal those personal contacts those personal those personal contacts those personal connections i think connections i think connections i think were pretty pretty critical for a lot of were pretty pretty critical for a lot of were pretty pretty critical for a lot of those people just those people just those people just getting that reminder that their pastor getting that reminder that their pastor getting that reminder that their pastor still still still thinking about them you know the phone thinking about them you know the phone thinking about them you know the phone calls the emails the texts they do a calls the emails the texts they do a calls the emails the texts they do a certain thing but there's nothing like certain thing but there's nothing like certain thing but there's nothing like that incarnational connection that you that incarnational connection that you that incarnational connection that you have have have no it's it's relationships you know we no it's it's relationships you know we no it's it's relationships you know we we we we uh we we stole a saying from paul uh we we stole a saying from paul uh we we stole a saying from paul scanlon pastor paul scanlon pastor paul scanlon pastor paul a couple years ago that says your your a couple years ago that says your your a couple years ago that says your your relationships are your resources and relationships are your resources and relationships are your resources and your resources are your relationship your resources are your relationship your resources are your relationship so uh you you build that's our middle so uh you you build that's our middle so uh you you build that's our middle word right our word right our word right our uh association of relational uh churches uh association of relational uh churches uh association of relational uh churches related churches so we're big on related churches so we're big on related churches so we're big on relationships so relationships so relationships so it was very cool to see ideas like like it was very cool to see ideas like like it was very cool to see ideas like like you just said uh you just said uh you just said uh happen where relationship was taken away happen where relationship was taken away happen where relationship was taken away in one context but it was added in one context but it was added in one context but it was added you know in another creative way did you you know in another creative way did you you know in another creative way did you see anything see anything see anything in any church plant uh creativity that in any church plant uh creativity that in any church plant uh creativity that you think aha this you think aha this you think aha this guy or this this team is on to something guy or this this team is on to something guy or this this team is on to something that that that actually will live on past covid any any actually will live on past covid any any actually will live on past covid any any creative things that you said you know creative things that you said you know creative things that you said you know that that's that that's that that's that's something that this church that's something that this church that's something that this church discovered as a result of kovid discovered as a result of kovid discovered as a result of kovid out of out of necessity and that's out of out of necessity and that's out of out of necessity and that's actually something that should probably actually something that should probably actually something that should probably be a part of that church going forward be a part of that church going forward be a part of that church going forward or something that other churches should or something that other churches should or something that other churches should probably try probably try probably try you know i don't know if i could point you know i don't know if i could point you know i don't know if i could point to one specific thing we mentioned a to one specific thing we mentioned a to one specific thing we mentioned a couple of the the examples of couple of the the examples of couple of the the examples of you know to me it's a lot of the

you know to me it's a lot of the you know to me it's a lot of the intangible things that that our intangible things that that our intangible things that that our work planners learned uh like there work planners learned uh like there work planners learned uh like there isn't just one way isn't just one way isn't just one way to do it um there are many different to do it um there are many different to do it um there are many different ways to build a relationship ways to build a relationship ways to build a relationship and sometimes that creativity is and sometimes that creativity is and sometimes that creativity is required more required more required more uh than than before you know kovid so i uh than than before you know kovid so i uh than than before you know kovid so i think some of the biggest things think some of the biggest things think some of the biggest things that uh church planners are going to that uh church planners are going to that uh church planners are going to take forward with them in churches in take forward with them in churches in take forward with them in churches in general general general take forward with them are those take forward with them are those take forward with them are those intangible values of being created being intangible values of being created being intangible values of being created being flexible flexible flexible um and building those relationships and um and building those relationships and um and building those relationships and not just not just not just in in the way that was set you know in in the way that was set you know in in the way that was set you know before them on the shoulders that before them on the shoulders that before them on the shoulders that they're standing on but in in those they're standing on but in in those they're standing on but in in those uh in indos anyways you know oddly uh in indos anyways you know oddly uh in indos anyways you know oddly enough we had last fall enough we had last fall enough we had last fall uh in early 2022 or early 2020 we uh in early 2022 or early 2020 we uh in early 2022 or early 2020 we launched uh launched uh launched uh almost 25 to 28 churches somewhere right almost 25 to 28 churches somewhere right almost 25 to 28 churches somewhere right in there in there in there uh we had a big fall in the fall of 20 uh we had a big fall in the fall of 20 uh we had a big fall in the fall of 20 set set set or for 45 50 church plants to start or for 45 50 church plants to start or for 45 50 church plants to start um the pandemic really hit that class of um the pandemic really hit that class of um the pandemic really hit that class of church planters as they church planters as they church planters as they most of them push forward but we ended most of them push forward but we ended most of them push forward but we ended up launching nine up launching nine up launching nine and um had probably i think our third and um had probably i think our third and um had probably i think our third highest launch ever highest launch ever highest launch ever uh during the pandemic and a great uh during the pandemic and a great uh during the pandemic and a great church planner in colorado springs and i church planner in colorado springs and i church planner in colorado springs and i was curious on asking was curious on asking was curious on asking trying to figure out what he did uh to trying to figure out what he did uh to trying to figure out what he did uh to do it and it was all those intangible do it and it was all those intangible do it and it was all those intangible things it's examples like you mentioned things it's examples like you mentioned things it's examples like you mentioned like i mentioned before like i mentioned before like i mentioned before he he found different ways to he he found different ways to he he found different ways to go face to face socially distance of go face to face socially distance of go face to face socially distance of course course course in order to to make an impact in that

in order to to make an impact in that in order to to make an impact in that community community community months leading up to the actual launch months leading up to the actual launch months leading up to the actual launch and i think they would have had and i think they would have had and i think they would have had way over a thousand people if the way over a thousand people if the way over a thousand people if the building restrictions would would have building restrictions would would have building restrictions would would have would have allowed it would have allowed it would have allowed it so i think it's a lot of those so i think it's a lot of those so i think it's a lot of those intangible um uh intangible um uh intangible um uh lessons that have been learned that the lessons that have been learned that the lessons that have been learned that the church planners will carry forward with church planners will carry forward with church planners will carry forward with them them them let me let me ask you a question about let me let me ask you a question about let me let me ask you a question about the use of the use of the use of on like the church online so i i don't on like the church online so i i don't on like the church online so i i don't you know you know you know i don't know where you guys have been i don't know where you guys have been i don't know where you guys have been the last few years as it relates to the last few years as it relates to the last few years as it relates to preparing and and coaching a church preparing and and coaching a church preparing and and coaching a church planter planter planter for an online worship experience of some for an online worship experience of some for an online worship experience of some sort sort sort my experience has been in most churches my experience has been in most churches my experience has been in most churches are sort of like well we're gonna launch are sort of like well we're gonna launch are sort of like well we're gonna launch in person and then we know in person and then we know in person and then we know we're gonna at the very least be posting we're gonna at the very least be posting we're gonna at the very least be posting our sermons online but our sermons online but our sermons online but not really processing that they're going not really processing that they're going not really processing that they're going to need to need to need a church online experience of some sort a church online experience of some sort a church online experience of some sort out of the gate out of the gate out of the gate my experience is just it's just not my experience is just it's just not my experience is just it's just not where church planters are thinking we're where church planters are thinking we're where church planters are thinking we're trying to get people trying to get people trying to get people in a room in a building in a space in a room in a building in a space in a room in a building in a space do you think that the pandemic is going do you think that the pandemic is going do you think that the pandemic is going to change that in any way going forward to change that in any way going forward to change that in any way going forward that as church planters are looking at that as church planters are looking at that as church planters are looking at you know launching a new church in in you know launching a new church in in you know launching a new church in in 2021 or 2022 2021 or 2022 2021 or 2022 what role will church online play as what role will church online play as what role will church online play as they they they plant out of the gate yeah i think it'll plant out of the gate yeah i think it'll plant out of the gate yeah i think it'll continue to play a major role continue to play a major role continue to play a major role uh i think that role has lessened some uh i think that role has lessened some uh i think that role has lessened some uh uh uh for for the majority of churches not for for for the majority of churches not for for for the majority of churches not for your um your um your um not for maybe your bigger you know not for maybe your bigger you know not for maybe your bigger you know personalities and bigger churches that

personalities and bigger churches that personalities and bigger churches that are really capitalized on the are really capitalized on the are really capitalized on the the digital church side of it but i know the digital church side of it but i know the digital church side of it but i know it with us it with us it with us we quickly added we learned we learned we quickly added we learned we learned we quickly added we learned we learned really quick because like you said it really quick because like you said it really quick because like you said it used to be just flipped on the camera used to be just flipped on the camera used to be just flipped on the camera and it was streamed online now it's its and it was streamed online now it's its and it was streamed online now it's its own separate production own separate production own separate production and i do think church planners and and i do think church planners and and i do think church planners and church leaders need to treat it as its church leaders need to treat it as its church leaders need to treat it as its own own own separate church campus so to speak and separate church campus so to speak and separate church campus so to speak and how you staff it and how you produce it how you staff it and how you produce it how you staff it and how you produce it um you know whether you just you know um you know whether you just you know um you know whether you just you know use the sunny message live or use the sunny message live or use the sunny message live or record that particular message earlier record that particular message earlier record that particular message earlier in the week because i i believe that the in the week because i i believe that the in the week because i i believe that the audience group is gonna audience group is gonna audience group is gonna you know be there you know moving you know be there you know moving you know be there you know moving forward but we added uh financial forward but we added uh financial forward but we added uh financial investment investment investment into it we came up and learned from our into it we came up and learned from our into it we came up and learned from our church planners you know what equipment church planners you know what equipment church planners you know what equipment to buy so we have equipment list to buy so we have equipment list to buy so we have equipment list we added curriculum on how to do you we added curriculum on how to do you we added curriculum on how to do you know digital and online church know digital and online church know digital and online church and we see we're not taking that away so and we see we're not taking that away so and we see we're not taking that away so you know we increased the overall you know we increased the overall you know we increased the overall financial investment financial investment financial investment in order to help them and then develop in order to help them and then develop in order to help them and then develop the whole curriculum so i definitely see the whole curriculum so i definitely see the whole curriculum so i definitely see see that audience growing you know uh see that audience growing you know uh see that audience growing you know uh steadily over the next you know several steadily over the next you know several steadily over the next you know several years because you can reach years because you can reach years because you can reach other people that don't live in your other people that don't live in your other people that don't live in your community as well as reaching those community as well as reaching those community as well as reaching those people people people in your community as well as reaching in your community as well as reaching in your community as well as reaching people in your community that don't feel people in your community that don't feel people in your community that don't feel comfortable comfortable comfortable you know coming back to an actual venue you know coming back to an actual venue you know coming back to an actual venue just uh just yet so just uh just yet so just uh just yet so i definitely see it continuing to have a i definitely see it continuing to have a i definitely see it continuing to have a lot of influence lot of influence lot of influence yeah you know obviously admissional yeah you know obviously admissional yeah you know obviously admissional marketing you know our primary marketing you know our primary marketing you know our primary work with churches is in the digital work with churches is in the digital work with churches is in the digital space and helping them space and helping them space and helping them increase their digital footprint and you

increase their digital footprint and you increase their digital footprint and you know we've been saying for years that know we've been saying for years that know we've been saying for years that you know your you know your you know your your church website is it's the front your church website is it's the front your church website is it's the front door door door of your church right no it's just so of your church right no it's just so of your church right no it's just so unlikely that anyone's going to unlikely that anyone's going to unlikely that anyone's going to walk through the front doors of your walk through the front doors of your walk through the front doors of your venue before having venue before having venue before having walked through the front door of your walked through the front door of your walked through the front door of your website and even maybe even before that website and even maybe even before that website and even maybe even before that they've they've they've they've looked at your reviews on google they've looked at your reviews on google they've looked at your reviews on google right they're they're checking out what right they're they're checking out what right they're they're checking out what other people have said about you other people have said about you other people have said about you and you know my family we moved uh back and you know my family we moved uh back and you know my family we moved uh back to texas a few years ago and we did the to texas a few years ago and we did the to texas a few years ago and we did the vast majority of our church vast majority of our church vast majority of our church shopping before we even relocated to the shopping before we even relocated to the shopping before we even relocated to the city now we're church people and they're city now we're church people and they're city now we're church people and they're very specific things that very specific things that very specific things that that we were looking for to align with that we were looking for to align with that we were looking for to align with from a ministry standpoint from a ministry standpoint from a ministry standpoint but as far as those unchurched people but as far as those unchurched people but as far as those unchurched people the people that we're really the people that we're really the people that we're really trying to reach people who are far from trying to reach people who are far from trying to reach people who are far from god i think they're going to spend a lot god i think they're going to spend a lot god i think they're going to spend a lot more time more time more time uh checking you out online than you uh checking you out online than you uh checking you out online than you think they are right it's a think they are right it's a think they are right it's a big step to get someone from their big step to get someone from their big step to get someone from their living room living room living room into your venue and the more i like what into your venue and the more i like what into your venue and the more i like what you said about tailoring you said about tailoring you said about tailoring the online experience for the online the online experience for the online the online experience for the online audience audience audience because i think what most churches have because i think what most churches have because i think what most churches have done traditionally and still a lot done traditionally and still a lot done traditionally and still a lot are doing is they're just kind of are doing is they're just kind of are doing is they're just kind of creating this fly on the wall experience creating this fly on the wall experience creating this fly on the wall experience for people at home that's kind of like for people at home that's kind of like for people at home that's kind of like hey if you show up on a sunday this is hey if you show up on a sunday this is hey if you show up on a sunday this is what it's going to look like what it's going to look like what it's going to look like rather than actually using the tool in rather than actually using the tool in rather than actually using the tool in that moment that moment that moment to do ministry and to actually engage to do ministry and to actually engage to do ministry and to actually engage with that person with that person with that person based on where they are in that moment based on where they are in that moment based on where they are in that moment giving them next steps that are giving them next steps that are giving them next steps that are appropriate appropriate appropriate for where they are on the couch in the

for where they are on the couch in the for where they are on the couch in the living room or you know sitting on the living room or you know sitting on the living room or you know sitting on the back patio watching the service or the back patio watching the service or the back patio watching the service or the live stream or whatever it is live stream or whatever it is live stream or whatever it is on their phone they need a next step and on their phone they need a next step and on their phone they need a next step and that next step that next step that next step will hopefully lead to a next step that will hopefully lead to a next step that will hopefully lead to a next step that will lead to a next step that will will lead to a next step that will will lead to a next step that will eventually lead them to actually coming eventually lead them to actually coming eventually lead them to actually coming to your campus to your campus to your campus but i think that there's going to be a but i think that there's going to be a but i think that there's going to be a few steps that are necessary in that few steps that are necessary in that few steps that are necessary in that just like just like just like you know my my group my my groups you know my my group my my groups you know my my group my my groups ministry ministry ministry was always the church that i was was always the church that i was was always the church that i was pastoring our groups ministry small pastoring our groups ministry small pastoring our groups ministry small groups ministry was groups ministry was groups ministry was just key core to the body life of our just key core to the body life of our just key core to the body life of our church we wanted people connected in church we wanted people connected in church we wanted people connected in small groups but we recognized small groups but we recognized small groups but we recognized that for a new person coming in on a that for a new person coming in on a that for a new person coming in on a sunday morning sunday morning sunday morning it was a big leap for them to it was a big leap for them to it was a big leap for them to automatically go sit in a stranger's automatically go sit in a stranger's automatically go sit in a stranger's living room like that was a big leap and living room like that was a big leap and living room like that was a big leap and so we had to kind of create so we had to kind of create so we had to kind of create some steps along the way that helped some steps along the way that helped some steps along the way that helped them see the value them see the value them see the value of connecting relationally the value of connecting relationally the value of connecting relationally the value of you know kind of making relationships of you know kind of making relationships of you know kind of making relationships and having and having and having dialogue and doing discipleship together dialogue and doing discipleship together dialogue and doing discipleship together and then reduce the scary factor of and then reduce the scary factor of and then reduce the scary factor of going from going from going from you know we were meeting in a movie you know we were meeting in a movie you know we were meeting in a movie theater to get people from the movie theater to get people from the movie theater to get people from the movie theater theater theater into some stranger's living room movie into some stranger's living room movie into some stranger's living room movie theater was theater was theater was i love church planting in movie theaters i love church planting in movie theaters i love church planting in movie theaters because it's such a familiar and easy because it's such a familiar and easy because it's such a familiar and easy place place place for people to come to you know most for people to come to you know most for people to come to you know most people in your community especially people in your community especially people in your community especially we were in a community that only had one we were in a community that only had one we were in a community that only had one movie theater so everybody in town had movie theater so everybody in town had movie theater so everybody in town had been there before been there before been there before so coming into our space wasn't so coming into our space wasn't so coming into our space wasn't something new but going and sitting in a something new but going and sitting in a something new but going and sitting in a perfect stranger's living room for a perfect stranger's living room for a perfect stranger's living room for a small group was a completely different small group was a completely different small group was a completely different concept and i think it's true when concept and i think it's true when concept and i think it's true when you're you're you're connecting with people who don't have a connecting with people who don't have a connecting with people who don't have a church background to get them from their church background to get them from their church background to get them from their living room

living room living room into your venue is also a big it's a big into your venue is also a big it's a big into your venue is also a big it's a big step step step i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing podcast podcast podcast it's always our goal to help you as a it's always our goal to help you as a it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage your church leader leverage your church leader leverage your communications and digital media communications and digital media communications and digital media resources resources resources to reach more people for jesus one of to reach more people for jesus one of to reach more people for jesus one of the ways that we help churches do that the ways that we help churches do that the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media content is through creating social media content is through creating social media content from your sunday sermon videos from your sunday sermon videos from your sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember you really want people to remember you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your we edit the videos add captions add your we edit the videos add captions add your church branding church branding church branding and then you or we post them to your and then you or we post them to your and then you or we post them to your social media channels social media channels social media channels as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my sermon content sermon content sermon content live on beyond the sundays and i know live on beyond the sundays and i know live on beyond the sundays and i know that's what you value for your sermons that's what you value for your sermons that's what you value for your sermons too too too we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how it works it works it works if you'd like more information just if you'd like more information just if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at beblair shoot me an email at beblair shoot me an email at beblair missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that you have answer any questions that you have answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in to our once again thanks for tuning in to our once again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview i don't know how i rabbit trailed on i don't know how i rabbit trailed on i don't know how i rabbit trailed on that but oh well it is and that but oh well it is and that but oh well it is and and you know it's funny that you said and you know it's funny that you said and you know it's funny that you said that because uh especially like the the that because uh especially like the the that because uh especially like the the google reviews we google reviews we google reviews we we literally uh members of our lunch we literally uh members of our lunch we literally uh members of our lunch team were team were team were just telling our fall class of church just telling our fall class of church just telling our fall class of church planners that are launching this fall planners that are launching this fall planners that are launching this fall hey make sure you you go on and actually hey make sure you you go on and actually hey make sure you you go on and actually check to see do you have any reviews if check to see do you have any reviews if check to see do you have any reviews if you do you do you do uh or even if you don't get your launch uh or even if you don't get your launch uh or even if you don't get your launch team team team your leaders that you trust to go on and your leaders that you trust to go on and your leaders that you trust to go on and write reviews now

write reviews now write reviews now every single one of them need to write every single one of them need to write every single one of them need to write reviews right now so that's important reviews right now so that's important reviews right now so that's important then to the social media as well then to the social media as well then to the social media as well a lot of times social media is the step a lot of times social media is the step a lot of times social media is the step before the website step before the website step before the website step yeah so they want to they want to check yeah so they want to they want to check yeah so they want to they want to check out you know a story they want to check out you know a story they want to check out you know a story they want to check out a post on instagram or out a post on instagram or out a post on instagram or what you tweeted or or you know what what you tweeted or or you know what what you tweeted or or you know what you're doing in the community as well you're doing in the community as well you're doing in the community as well so i think you know that is a that is a so i think you know that is a that is a so i think you know that is a that is a those social media platforms are so those social media platforms are so those social media platforms are so important too because it's a step before important too because it's a step before important too because it's a step before the step of checking just checking you the step of checking just checking you the step of checking just checking you out on the website out on the website out on the website yeah i appreciate you saying that and uh yeah i appreciate you saying that and uh yeah i appreciate you saying that and uh for you for you for you and any of our listeners if you haven't and any of our listeners if you haven't and any of our listeners if you haven't checked out our youtube channel we have checked out our youtube channel we have checked out our youtube channel we have a number of videos that we posted on a number of videos that we posted on a number of videos that we posted on there that are like tips there that are like tips there that are like tips and uh sort of tips and best practices and uh sort of tips and best practices and uh sort of tips and best practices for for for church plants as it relates to websites church plants as it relates to websites church plants as it relates to websites and seo and seo and seo um how to make sure that your church is um how to make sure that your church is um how to make sure that your church is able to be found online you know um able to be found online you know um able to be found online you know um one of the common mistakes that many of one of the common mistakes that many of one of the common mistakes that many of us make is we think i launched a website us make is we think i launched a website us make is we think i launched a website and people will find it and people will find it and people will find it um and there's work that has to be done um and there's work that has to be done um and there's work that has to be done to make sure that people can actually to make sure that people can actually to make sure that people can actually find your website find your website find your website that's one of the things admissional that's one of the things admissional that's one of the things admissional marketing that we are really marketing that we are really marketing that we are really intent on doing is helping churches be intent on doing is helping churches be intent on doing is helping churches be more more more visible for church plants it's really visible for church plants it's really visible for church plants it's really critical critical critical because you literally don't exist because you literally don't exist because you literally don't exist anywhere online anywhere online anywhere online and it can take a long time to and it can take a long time to and it can take a long time to generate the online presence unless generate the online presence unless generate the online presence unless you're super intentional you're super intentional you're super intentional about doing the things that google sort about doing the things that google sort about doing the things that google sort of says you need to do these things if of says you need to do these things if of says you need to do these things if if you do these things then google will if you do these things then google will if you do these things then google will reward you reward you reward you with um with better visibility online if with um with better visibility online if with um with better visibility online if you don't do these things it's going to

you don't do these things it's going to you don't do these things it's going to be hard for be hard for be hard for hard for people to find you so anyway hard for people to find you so anyway hard for people to find you so anyway we've we've been creating some videos we've we've been creating some videos we've we've been creating some videos and and have a few of them on the on the and and have a few of them on the on the and and have a few of them on the on the youtube channel that are youtube channel that are youtube channel that are specifically related for church plants specifically related for church plants specifically related for church plants it's something as a church planter it's something as a church planter it's something as a church planter myself i'm passionate about and making myself i'm passionate about and making myself i'm passionate about and making sure that sure that sure that guys that uh are getting started have guys that uh are getting started have guys that uh are getting started have all the information they need to all the information they need to all the information they need to leverage leverage leverage google and and their online platform as google and and their online platform as google and and their online platform as best as they best as they best as they as best as they can yes let me uh let me as best as they can yes let me uh let me as best as they can yes let me uh let me ask you another question ask you another question ask you another question this is completely unrelated to what this is completely unrelated to what this is completely unrelated to what we've been talking about but it's we've been talking about but it's we've been talking about but it's something that something that something that because i was going to get you on this because i was going to get you on this because i was going to get you on this call um i wanted to i wanted to ask you call um i wanted to i wanted to ask you call um i wanted to i wanted to ask you you know i you know i you know i i'm i'm a person who has been involved i'm i'm a person who has been involved i'm i'm a person who has been involved in church planting for you know a couple in church planting for you know a couple in church planting for you know a couple almost a couple of decades now almost a couple of decades now almost a couple of decades now um i have you know i attend the church um i have you know i attend the church um i have you know i attend the church planting planting planting conferences the big ones um i have conferences the big ones um i have conferences the big ones um i have started my finger on the pulse of things started my finger on the pulse of things started my finger on the pulse of things that are going on in different church that are going on in different church that are going on in different church planting spaces you guys have developed planting spaces you guys have developed planting spaces you guys have developed a model that a model that a model that has worked very well for you and you has worked very well for you and you has worked very well for you and you know and and i've know and and i've know and and i've and it's it's repeatable and it's and it's it's repeatable and it's and it's it's repeatable and it's scalable and i think that's one of the scalable and i think that's one of the scalable and i think that's one of the things that you guys things that you guys things that you guys have realized is that you have this the have realized is that you have this the have realized is that you have this the system that process it doesn't work for system that process it doesn't work for system that process it doesn't work for everybody and it doesn't work for every everybody and it doesn't work for every everybody and it doesn't work for every context and context and context and and i think you know you said to me and i think you know you said to me and i think you know you said to me earlier before we started recording that earlier before we started recording that earlier before we started recording that when you all assess church planters when you all assess church planters when you all assess church planters you're not assessing you're not assessing you're not assessing the call for ministry for that church the call for ministry for that church the call for ministry for that church planter planter planter but you're assessing more so can that but you're assessing more so can that but you're assessing more so can that church planter church planter church planter work within the model and the framework work within the model and the framework work within the model and the framework that that arc that that arc that that arc 10 you know is is is helping these 10 you know is is is helping these 10 you know is is is helping these church planters launch with church planters launch with church planters launch with um so what i respect about arc is that um so what i respect about arc is that um so what i respect about arc is that you found a system you found a model you found a system you found a model you found a system you found a model you've

you've you've found coaching that works and you've found coaching that works and you've found coaching that works and you've stuck with it stuck with it stuck with it but every time i go to a church planting but every time i go to a church planting but every time i go to a church planting conference conference conference there are all kinds of new and different there are all kinds of new and different there are all kinds of new and different and creative ideas for church planting and creative ideas for church planting and creative ideas for church planting and those things tend to like percolate and those things tend to like percolate and those things tend to like percolate to the top and to the top and to the top and people write books about them and people write books about them and people write books about them and there's blog posts and you know there's blog posts and you know there's blog posts and you know all this stuff and then you know three all this stuff and then you know three all this stuff and then you know three years later years later years later we're on to kind of the next thing i'm we're on to kind of the next thing i'm we're on to kind of the next thing i'm not going to name those different types not going to name those different types not going to name those different types of things but i want to ask you this of things but i want to ask you this of things but i want to ask you this question question question how do you differentiate between how do you differentiate between how do you differentiate between trends in church planting or trends in church planting or trends in church planting or fads in church planting right trends are fads in church planting right trends are fads in church planting right trends are things that things that things that really i think they kind of help us really i think they kind of help us really i think they kind of help us continue continue continue to move along with the culture adapt to to move along with the culture adapt to to move along with the culture adapt to the culture the culture the culture and and actually help us make progress and and actually help us make progress and and actually help us make progress in the church planting space in the church planting space in the church planting space whereas fads tend to be something that whereas fads tend to be something that whereas fads tend to be something that gets really popular for a time gets really popular for a time gets really popular for a time because someone made it popular and it because someone made it popular and it because someone made it popular and it kind of looks cool and it sounds cool kind of looks cool and it sounds cool kind of looks cool and it sounds cool and let's just face it and let's just face it and let's just face it all church planters want to be cool i all church planters want to be cool i all church planters want to be cool i did say that out loud i could edit that did say that out loud i could edit that did say that out loud i could edit that part out if i need to but i've been part out if i need to but i've been part out if i need to but i've been there i'm a little i'm a church man there i'm a little i'm a church man there i'm a little i'm a church man myself church planters like to be cool myself church planters like to be cool myself church planters like to be cool um how do you when you're looking at the um how do you when you're looking at the um how do you when you're looking at the landscape how would you differentiate landscape how would you differentiate landscape how would you differentiate between trends and fads in church between trends and fads in church between trends and fads in church planting planting planting the way we kind of look at it is uh say the way we kind of look at it is uh say the way we kind of look at it is uh say you compare it to building a house you compare it to building a house you compare it to building a house you have a you have a foundation and you you have a you have a foundation and you you have a you have a foundation and you have a structure have a structure have a structure once you get that sheetrock on the wall once you get that sheetrock on the wall once you get that sheetrock on the wall you can change out the paint color you can change out the paint color you can change out the paint color you can put different wallpaper on it you can put different wallpaper on it you can put different wallpaper on it you can put different um you can put different um you can put different um you know shades up or or curtains on you know shades up or or curtains on you know shades up or or curtains on your window

your window your window i can redo the uh countertops you know i can redo the uh countertops you know i can redo the uh countertops you know on the kitchen on the kitchen on the kitchen uh or whatnot so we look at the trends uh or whatnot so we look at the trends uh or whatnot so we look at the trends as as as the practices that were the same back in the practices that were the same back in the practices that were the same back in the first days of the church the first days of the church the first days of the church to back in the early 1900s to back in to back in the early 1900s to back in to back in the early 1900s to back in 2000 to right now those trends continue 2000 to right now those trends continue 2000 to right now those trends continue to evolve to evolve to evolve but they're the same foundational truths but they're the same foundational truths but they're the same foundational truths of building a church and what it takes of building a church and what it takes of building a church and what it takes to build those churches so we build out to build those churches so we build out to build those churches so we build out our curriculum our curriculum our curriculum around those trends because to us they around those trends because to us they around those trends because to us they last through the last through the last through the pandemic they last through culture wars pandemic they last through culture wars pandemic they last through culture wars they last through you know persecution they last through you know persecution they last through you know persecution they last through all sorts of they last through all sorts of they last through all sorts of challenges that come challenges that come challenges that come the church's way the fads we embrace the church's way the fads we embrace the church's way the fads we embrace them them them but we put them in their proper but we put them in their proper but we put them in their proper perspective of take advantage of it perspective of take advantage of it perspective of take advantage of it while you can but don't put your whole while you can but don't put your whole while you can but don't put your whole boat boat boat you know and whole house is not built on you know and whole house is not built on you know and whole house is not built on just that that fad just that that fad just that that fad that is happening there is nothing new that is happening there is nothing new that is happening there is nothing new under the sun under the sun under the sun so church planners you know that come to so church planners you know that come to so church planners you know that come to us and think that you know us and think that you know us and think that you know i've got it i've got something different i've got it i've got something different i've got it i've got something different than what was done before than what was done before than what was done before that's not necessarily the case you're that's not necessarily the case you're that's not necessarily the case you're building on on top of trends that have building on on top of trends that have building on on top of trends that have been going on for been going on for been going on for a long long time and you're just a long long time and you're just a long long time and you're just continuing to involve those trends while continuing to involve those trends while continuing to involve those trends while taking advantage of taking advantage of taking advantage of certain fads you know that are out there certain fads you know that are out there certain fads you know that are out there it could be you know it could be you know it could be you know outreach became really popular for for a outreach became really popular for for a outreach became really popular for for a while that's a trend while that's a trend while that's a trend and then there's fads within that trend and then there's fads within that trend and then there's fads within that trend you know um you know um you know um you know as well worship has been a you know as well worship has been a you know as well worship has been a trend for a long time but skinny jeans trend for a long time but skinny jeans trend for a long time but skinny jeans with a trucker hat and a tattoo with a trucker hat and a tattoo with a trucker hat and a tattoo uh you know we'll see if that's a fad uh you know we'll see if that's a fad uh you know we'll see if that's a fad or not moving forward you know but you

or not moving forward you know but you or not moving forward you know but you know there's different flavors within know there's different flavors within know there's different flavors within even worship styles that we're seeing even worship styles that we're seeing even worship styles that we're seeing taking place right now as well but taking place right now as well but taking place right now as well but worship is a trend that's not going to worship is a trend that's not going to worship is a trend that's not going to go anywhere go anywhere go anywhere there's just different ways to express there's just different ways to express there's just different ways to express through a fad you know as well so through a fad you know as well so through a fad you know as well so our curriculum we build out trends and our curriculum we build out trends and our curriculum we build out trends and then we use then we use then we use webinars like what we're doing or webinars like what we're doing or webinars like what we're doing or podcasts like what we're doing to podcasts like what we're doing to podcasts like what we're doing to address fads and take advantage of those address fads and take advantage of those address fads and take advantage of those to reach people for christ to reach people for christ to reach people for christ that is very well said um that is very that is very well said um that is very that is very well said um that is very well said i really well said i really well said i really appreciate your perspective on that i'm appreciate your perspective on that i'm appreciate your perspective on that i'm glad that you identified the glad that you identified the glad that you identified the skinny jeans and trucker hats as a fad skinny jeans and trucker hats as a fad skinny jeans and trucker hats as a fad not a trend not a trend not a trend which i can pull off so no i mean i have which i can pull off so no i mean i have which i can pull off so no i mean i have jeans jeans jeans that look like skinny jeans because of that look like skinny jeans because of that look like skinny jeans because of my kovid 19 experience my kovid 19 experience my kovid 19 experience they're not supposed to be skinny jeans they're not supposed to be skinny jeans they're not supposed to be skinny jeans but i don't do trekker hat very well i but i don't do trekker hat very well i but i don't do trekker hat very well i you know i'm bald right so um i wear a you know i'm bald right so um i wear a you know i'm bald right so um i wear a trucker hat trucker hat trucker hat and if i'm out in the sun i still get and if i'm out in the sun i still get and if i'm out in the sun i still get burned in the back burned in the back burned in the back of my head where the you know the of my head where the you know the of my head where the you know the trigger i am i don't know why trigger i am i don't know why trigger i am i don't know why yeah okay i got you man i'm tracking yeah okay i got you man i'm tracking yeah okay i got you man i'm tracking with you with you with you not important um so let me ask another not important um so let me ask another not important um so let me ask another question you know question you know question you know in in the roles that i get to play in in the roles that i get to play in in the roles that i get to play in the ministry and here at missional in the ministry and here at missional in the ministry and here at missional marketing that i work with i have i have marketing that i work with i have i have marketing that i work with i have i have the privilege of the privilege of the privilege of working with some of the largest working with some of the largest working with some of the largest churches uh churches uh churches uh in our country um some amazing leaders in our country um some amazing leaders in our country um some amazing leaders and amazing teams and amazing teams and amazing teams i also have the opportunity to work with i also have the opportunity to work with i also have the opportunity to work with some very small some very small some very small churches some of which you know have churches some of which you know have churches some of which you know have been small for a long time and are

been small for a long time and are been small for a long time and are probably going to stay small some of probably going to stay small some of probably going to stay small some of which which which and when i say small i mean some of them and when i say small i mean some of them and when i say small i mean some of them are like 20 people um are like 20 people um are like 20 people um i call anything between like you know 50 i call anything between like you know 50 i call anything between like you know 50 people people people and probably 500 i call that like a and probably 500 i call that like a and probably 500 i call that like a normal sized church normal sized church normal sized church that's like normal um you know that's like normal um you know that's like normal um you know but you know one of the things that i but you know one of the things that i but you know one of the things that i think all of us as church planters do think all of us as church planters do think all of us as church planters do we we really want to see church growth we we really want to see church growth we we really want to see church growth we want to see our churches grow we want to see our churches grow we want to see our churches grow we want to continue to reach more people we want to continue to reach more people we want to continue to reach more people i don't know any church planter who ever i don't know any church planter who ever i don't know any church planter who ever said well you know i've got my core team said well you know i've got my core team said well you know i've got my core team of 35 adults and of 35 adults and of 35 adults and i'm just content with that we want to i'm just content with that we want to i'm just content with that we want to launch we want to launch big launch we want to launch big launch we want to launch big and we want to continue to grow and and we want to continue to grow and and we want to continue to grow and reach more people and be more effective reach more people and be more effective reach more people and be more effective you know every mega church that we can you know every mega church that we can you know every mega church that we can identify maybe not everyone but most of identify maybe not everyone but most of identify maybe not everyone but most of them them them started as a church plant at some time started as a church plant at some time started as a church plant at some time somebody started that church where somebody started that church where somebody started that church where you're talking about you're talking about you're talking about you know moody in chicago saddleback you know moody in chicago saddleback you know moody in chicago saddleback um you know you name it all the big um you know you name it all the big um you know you name it all the big churches churches churches they all started as a church plant at they all started as a church plant at they all started as a church plant at some time you know in in history some time you know in in history some time you know in in history not every church plant is going to grow not every church plant is going to grow not every church plant is going to grow to be a mega church you know the vast to be a mega church you know the vast to be a mega church you know the vast majority of them will be majority of them will be majority of them will be normal-sized churches you know a few normal-sized churches you know a few normal-sized churches you know a few hundred people hundred people hundred people maybe up to a thousand but a lot of them maybe up to a thousand but a lot of them maybe up to a thousand but a lot of them will remain kind of in that few hundred will remain kind of in that few hundred will remain kind of in that few hundred space how do you help church planters or space how do you help church planters or space how do you help church planters or how does art how does art how does art help church planters keep a healthy help church planters keep a healthy help church planters keep a healthy perspective on how they define perspective on how they define perspective on how they define success in ministry we success in ministry we success in ministry we we know success is lost people getting

we know success is lost people getting we know success is lost people getting saved saved saved and getting baptized and we can easily and getting baptized and we can easily and getting baptized and we can easily define success as define success as define success as numeric growth and meeting budget and numeric growth and meeting budget and numeric growth and meeting budget and being able to do the things that we being able to do the things that we being able to do the things that we believe that god has called us to do believe that god has called us to do believe that god has called us to do but how do you help a church planter go but how do you help a church planter go but how do you help a church planter go into a church plant into a church plant into a church plant with the right mindset and a healthy with the right mindset and a healthy with the right mindset and a healthy perspective on perspective on perspective on what success is going to look like yeah what success is going to look like yeah what success is going to look like yeah well it's definitely a big challenge well it's definitely a big challenge well it's definitely a big challenge uh i think more so than maybe ever ever uh i think more so than maybe ever ever uh i think more so than maybe ever ever before because before because before because you know back when moody was starting you know back when moody was starting you know back when moody was starting you know he there was no way to compare you know he there was no way to compare you know he there was no way to compare themselves themselves themselves you know versus other churches you know you know versus other churches you know you know versus other churches you know unless they wrote a newspaper article unless they wrote a newspaper article unless they wrote a newspaper article you know whenever it made it you know you know whenever it made it you know you know whenever it made it you know kind of to them or whatever but kind of to them or whatever but kind of to them or whatever but um it to me it's all about contentment um it to me it's all about contentment um it to me it's all about contentment and it's it's how we define success our and it's it's how we define success our and it's it's how we define success our role is role is role is is to put it out there the church is to put it out there the church is to put it out there the church planner's role is to actually embrace it planner's role is to actually embrace it planner's role is to actually embrace it and believe it for themselves and believe it for themselves and believe it for themselves one of our founders chris hodges is one one of our founders chris hodges is one one of our founders chris hodges is one of our of our of our was our first our church plan 60 000 was our first our church plan 60 000 was our first our church plan 60 000 plus member churches right now plus member churches right now plus member churches right now rick visset and new life and arkansas rick visset and new life and arkansas rick visset and new life and arkansas was are was are was are also our first church plan they launched also our first church plan they launched also our first church plan they launched on the same day together on the same day together on the same day together uh they're 15 20 000 people now uh they're 15 20 000 people now uh they're 15 20 000 people now um that's not the case every every time um that's not the case every every time um that's not the case every every time so like when we assess a church planter so like when we assess a church planter so like when we assess a church planter we actually look at it can they we actually look at it can they we actually look at it can they in the coming years of ministry so in the coming years of ministry so in the coming years of ministry so you know from the time they launched to you know from the time they launched to you know from the time they launched to you know hopefully 30 you know hopefully 30 you know hopefully 30 plus years down the road can they build plus years down the road can they build plus years down the road can they build and sustain a church of three to 500 and sustain a church of three to 500 and sustain a church of three to 500 people people people that is kind of our model's goal again

that is kind of our model's goal again that is kind of our model's goal again not the only way to do it we acknowledge not the only way to do it we acknowledge not the only way to do it we acknowledge that but that's our model school that but that's our model school that but that's our model school so we talk about the dangers of so we talk about the dangers of so we talk about the dangers of comparison comparison comparison uh we try to put it in proper uh we try to put it in proper uh we try to put it in proper perspective um perspective um perspective um and then it's really comes down to and then it's really comes down to and then it's really comes down to contentment and one of my one of the contentment and one of my one of the contentment and one of my one of the scriptures that i scriptures that i scriptures that i typically share is found in psalm 16 typically share is found in psalm 16 typically share is found in psalm 16 uh verse i think five and six it says uh verse i think five and six it says uh verse i think five and six it says the lord is the lord is the lord is is my chosen portion in my cup is my chosen portion in my cup is my chosen portion in my cup um and um god you hold my lot um and um god you hold my lot um and um god you hold my lot uh is what it says so your lot is you uh is what it says so your lot is you uh is what it says so your lot is you know your defined area in which you know your defined area in which you know your defined area in which you which you live in and so the lines have which you live in and so the lines have which you live in and so the lines have fallen for me in pleasant places fallen for me in pleasant places fallen for me in pleasant places so my life man i got what i what god has so my life man i got what i what god has so my life man i got what i what god has given me given me given me is exactly what i'm supposed to have and is exactly what i'm supposed to have and is exactly what i'm supposed to have and i can find all my contentment i can find all my contentment i can find all my contentment it's pleasant indeed the scripture says it's pleasant indeed the scripture says it's pleasant indeed the scripture says i have a beautiful inheritance and that i have a beautiful inheritance and that i have a beautiful inheritance and that inheritance we know is heavenly not inheritance we know is heavenly not inheritance we know is heavenly not not earthly as well so you know not earthly as well so you know not earthly as well so you know you you you have to realize that this is you you you have to realize that this is you you you have to realize that this is yours yours yours it's not anyone else's but the same is it's not anyone else's but the same is it's not anyone else's but the same is true true true that what is somebody else's is not that what is somebody else's is not that what is somebody else's is not yours as well yours as well yours as well so you have to keep that proper so you have to keep that proper so you have to keep that proper perspective when it comes to perspective when it comes to perspective when it comes to you know comparing this person because you know comparing this person because you know comparing this person because everything's perfect on social media everything's perfect on social media everything's perfect on social media we all know behind that post and that we all know behind that post and that we all know behind that post and that story it's not perfect story it's not perfect story it's not perfect but everything is perfect on social but everything is perfect on social but everything is perfect on social media and if you start wandering over media and if you start wandering over media and if you start wandering over into somebody else's inheritance into somebody else's inheritance into somebody else's inheritance somebody else's lot your lot and your somebody else's lot your lot and your somebody else's lot your lot and your inheritance is going to be neglected and inheritance is going to be neglected and inheritance is going to be neglected and not taken care of so not taken care of so not taken care of so always tell our church planners man you always tell our church planners man you always tell our church planners man you have to have the perspective

have to have the perspective have to have the perspective that you build the church that god owns that you build the church that god owns that you build the church that god owns and allows you to operate in and allows you to operate in and allows you to operate in you build that one person and one family you build that one person and one family you build that one person and one family at a time at a time at a time you really you can't even really look you really you can't even really look you really you can't even really look beyond that beyond that beyond that it's one wedding out of time one funeral it's one wedding out of time one funeral it's one wedding out of time one funeral service at a time service at a time service at a time one addiction uh that god uses you to one addiction uh that god uses you to one addiction uh that god uses you to help break out of time help break out of time help break out of time uh one you know parent child uh one you know parent child uh one you know parent child relationship restored relationship restored relationship restored marriage restored out of time you really marriage restored out of time you really marriage restored out of time you really can't look can't look can't look beyond that if you just slowly focus on beyond that if you just slowly focus on beyond that if you just slowly focus on building your structure building your structure building your structure your message your leadership system your your message your leadership system your your message your leadership system your your empowerment of the people in the your empowerment of the people in the your empowerment of the people in the pews so to speak your growth track pews so to speak your growth track pews so to speak your growth track at one person and one family at a time at one person and one family at a time at one person and one family at a time you're going to realize you're going to realize you're going to realize that that contentment it's there and that that contentment it's there and that that contentment it's there and you're going to you're going to you're going to celebrate and be happy for other people celebrate and be happy for other people celebrate and be happy for other people but you're going to operate within the but you're going to operate within the but you're going to operate within the lot that god has given you and the lot that god has given you and the lot that god has given you and the inheritance that god has given you and inheritance that god has given you and inheritance that god has given you and you're going to see you're going to see you're going to see amazing peace and you're going to see amazing peace and you're going to see amazing peace and you're going to see some amazing things be done some amazing things be done some amazing things be done in your community and then god will take in your community and then god will take in your community and then god will take care of the rest all the outside stuff care of the rest all the outside stuff care of the rest all the outside stuff that you can that you can that you can be a part of get asked to go speak here be a part of get asked to go speak here be a part of get asked to go speak here and there and teach and and there and teach and and there and teach and influence and mentor and and you know influence and mentor and and you know influence and mentor and and you know play golf with john maxwell and play golf with john maxwell and play golf with john maxwell and whatever the case may be all those whatever the case may be all those whatever the case may be all those things will come in due time things will come in due time things will come in due time but you build that church one person one but you build that church one person one but you build that church one person one family at a time family at a time family at a time and you'll realize that contentment uh and you'll realize that contentment uh and you'll realize that contentment uh is satisfying that's great is satisfying that's great is satisfying that's great have you played golf with john maxwell i have you played golf with john maxwell i have you played golf with john maxwell i have oh look at you have oh look at you have oh look at you okay all right i know who i need to have okay all right i know who i need to have okay all right i know who i need to have no i need to have a funny story with it no i need to have a funny story with it no i need to have a funny story with it that we'll save for another time

that we'll save for another time that we'll save for another time uh okay uh yes that was that was that uh okay uh yes that was that was that uh okay uh yes that was that was that was fun was fun was fun i was wondering if that didn't come out i was wondering if that didn't come out i was wondering if that didn't come out of the blue i was like why do you say of the blue i was like why do you say of the blue i was like why do you say golf with john maxwell because you golf with john maxwell because you golf with john maxwell because you haven't yet haven't yet haven't yet they appreciate getting that snapshot they appreciate getting that snapshot they appreciate getting that snapshot you know on that 17th 18th hole you know on that 17th 18th hole you know on that 17th 18th hole you know maxwell's i mean he's you know maxwell's i mean he's you know maxwell's i mean he's incredible so why not yeah incredible so why not yeah incredible so why not yeah yeah you know one of the things i was yeah you know one of the things i was yeah you know one of the things i was gonna i thought of this while you were gonna i thought of this while you were gonna i thought of this while you were talking about talking about talking about um you know taking one wedding at a time um you know taking one wedding at a time um you know taking one wedding at a time one funeral at a time one one funeral at a time one one funeral at a time one marriage restored at a time i marriage restored at a time i marriage restored at a time i i look at the land we look at the i look at the land we look at the i look at the land we look at the landscape of pastors you know and a lot landscape of pastors you know and a lot landscape of pastors you know and a lot of the pastors of the pastors of the pastors that historically we've looked at and that historically we've looked at and that historically we've looked at and this is this is it's really this is this is it's really this is this is it's really it's not something to make light about it's not something to make light about it's not something to make light about is that there have been is that there have been is that there have been large church pastors over the last five large church pastors over the last five large church pastors over the last five or six years or six years or six years that have had really hard falls and you that have had really hard falls and you that have had really hard falls and you know know know while on one level as church planters while on one level as church planters while on one level as church planters and his pastors we and his pastors we and his pastors we aspire to some degree to have the kind aspire to some degree to have the kind aspire to some degree to have the kind of influence that they have of influence that they have of influence that they have uh to have the kind of ministry uh uh to have the kind of ministry uh uh to have the kind of ministry uh effectiveness that they have effectiveness that they have effectiveness that they have um and it's hard not it's hard not to um and it's hard not it's hard not to um and it's hard not it's hard not to compare yourself to that and it's hard compare yourself to that and it's hard compare yourself to that and it's hard not to look at that and not to look at that and not to look at that and you know my counsel to any church you know my counsel to any church you know my counsel to any church planter especially young church planters planter especially young church planters planter especially young church planters who are still in the early stages of who are still in the early stages of who are still in the early stages of their ministry career their ministry career their ministry career is in addition to taking that one is in addition to taking that one is in addition to taking that one marriage at a time one restored one you marriage at a time one restored one you marriage at a time one restored one you know know know one one funeral at a time one wedding at one one funeral at a time one wedding at one one funeral at a time one wedding at a time a time a time is to say don't let your

is to say don't let your is to say don't let your giftedness outgrow your character giftedness outgrow your character giftedness outgrow your character so we have a tendency to focus a lot on so we have a tendency to focus a lot on so we have a tendency to focus a lot on i want to be a better i want to be a better i want to be a better preacher i need to be a better preacher i need to be a better preacher i need to be a better communicator i'm going to write a book communicator i'm going to write a book communicator i'm going to write a book i'm going to have a podcast i'm going to i'm going to have a podcast i'm going to i'm going to have a podcast i'm going to do things because i'm gifted in those do things because i'm gifted in those do things because i'm gifted in those areas areas areas every church planter that i know has every church planter that i know has every church planter that i know has really solid gifts really solid gifts really solid gifts in in something that's really easy to in in something that's really easy to in in something that's really easy to see it's a very visible thing and you go see it's a very visible thing and you go see it's a very visible thing and you go man he's just a visionary leader or he's man he's just a visionary leader or he's man he's just a visionary leader or he's an incredible communicator an incredible communicator an incredible communicator but we also need to make sure that that but we also need to make sure that that but we also need to make sure that that we're focused on we're focused on we're focused on growing our character as a jesus growing our character as a jesus growing our character as a jesus follower um it's those times where we follower um it's those times where we follower um it's those times where we see the giftedness outweighs the see the giftedness outweighs the see the giftedness outweighs the character character character that we we see pastors and church that we we see pastors and church that we we see pastors and church leaders in trouble leaders in trouble leaders in trouble i just sort of trust that if we as i just sort of trust that if we as i just sort of trust that if we as pastors as church planters pastors as church planters pastors as church planters focus as much on our character focus as much on our character focus as much on our character development that that's development that that's development that that's what will enable god to use us for more what will enable god to use us for more what will enable god to use us for more and entrust us with more and entrust us with more and entrust us with more because we're focused on growing the because we're focused on growing the because we're focused on growing the right thing if i'm focused on growing my right thing if i'm focused on growing my right thing if i'm focused on growing my own own own relationship with god and my character relationship with god and my character relationship with god and my character as a jesus follower as a jesus follower as a jesus follower it gives god more to work with in me and it gives god more to work with in me and it gives god more to work with in me and in my life and in my ministry and in my life and in my ministry and in my life and in my ministry and that doesn't necessarily mean i'm going that doesn't necessarily mean i'm going that doesn't necessarily mean i'm going to be a mega church pastor it doesn't to be a mega church pastor it doesn't to be a mega church pastor it doesn't necessarily mean that necessarily mean that necessarily mean that my church is going to be as big or as my church is going to be as big or as my church is going to be as big or as influential or as well known influential or as well known influential or as well known as somebody else's church but you know as somebody else's church but you know as somebody else's church but you know my capacity is always going to be my capacity is always going to be my capacity is always going to be limited limited limited uh based on me and who god has made me uh based on me and who god has made me uh based on me and who god has made me to be and that might be intentional on to be and that might be intentional on to be and that might be intentional on god's part god's part god's part he may have decided he was only going to he may have decided he was only going to he may have decided he was only going to give me a little bit of capacity give me a little bit of capacity give me a little bit of capacity because he only wants to entrust me with

because he only wants to entrust me with because he only wants to entrust me with something little but i want to do the something little but i want to do the something little but i want to do the most that i can with that and it's going most that i can with that and it's going most that i can with that and it's going to start to start to start with my own character development and with my own character development and with my own character development and making sure i'm focusing on the right making sure i'm focusing on the right making sure i'm focusing on the right things there things there things there no that's so good to me it's all about no that's so good to me it's all about no that's so good to me it's all about intimacy with christ intimacy with christ intimacy with christ you know just as intimate as you are you know just as intimate as you are you know just as intimate as you are when you're when you're desperate when you're when you're desperate when you're when you're desperate church planner trying to build your church planner trying to build your church planner trying to build your launch team and raise money in year five launch team and raise money in year five launch team and raise money in year five if you're 5 000 people all of a sudden i if you're 5 000 people all of a sudden i if you're 5 000 people all of a sudden i hope you're hope you're hope you're you're just as intimate or more um you're just as intimate or more um you're just as intimate or more um because that'll that'll create the because that'll that'll create the because that'll that'll create the health health health that just flows down in your your that just flows down in your your that just flows down in your your marriage marriage marriage your family your church your community your family your church your community your family your church your community and whatnot and unfortunately when when and whatnot and unfortunately when when and whatnot and unfortunately when when great leaders do great leaders do great leaders do make you know unwise choices and bad make you know unwise choices and bad make you know unwise choices and bad choices and whatnot choices and whatnot choices and whatnot you know a lot of times it could be uh you know a lot of times it could be uh you know a lot of times it could be uh traced back to a season where they they traced back to a season where they they traced back to a season where they they weren't as intimate as they wish they weren't as intimate as they wish they weren't as intimate as they wish they would have been would have been would have been it's we could do an entire podcast it's we could do an entire podcast it's we could do an entire podcast episode on that so i'm not going to go episode on that so i'm not going to go episode on that so i'm not going to go too far down that rabbit hole but it's too far down that rabbit hole but it's too far down that rabbit hole but it's it's hard it's hard it's hard as a pastor at any stage as a pastor at any stage as a pastor at any stage in ministry to make that the priority in ministry to make that the priority in ministry to make that the priority that it needs to be that it needs to be that it needs to be correct when you're planting a church correct when you're planting a church correct when you're planting a church and you're in the original throes of it and you're in the original throes of it and you're in the original throes of it everything demands everything's everything demands everything's everything demands everything's demanding your time demanding your time demanding your time your time your attention your energy your time your attention your energy your time your attention your energy you're pouring into everything you're pouring into everything you're pouring into everything as the church grows those demands on as the church grows those demands on as the church grows those demands on your time your time your time and your energy just continue to expand and your energy just continue to expand and your energy just continue to expand um you know great leaders find ways um you know great leaders find ways um you know great leaders find ways to scale their leadership structure and to scale their leadership structure and to scale their leadership structure and their team structure so that their team structure so that their team structure so that they're not carrying the burden of every

they're not carrying the burden of every they're not carrying the burden of every minute minute minute detail of all the ministry but there's detail of all the ministry but there's detail of all the ministry but there's still that weight still that weight still that weight of leadership there's still a heavy it's of leadership there's still a heavy it's of leadership there's still a heavy it's still a heavy load to carry still a heavy load to carry still a heavy load to carry as a pastor and as the leader of an as a pastor and as the leader of an as a pastor and as the leader of an organization whether it's a church of organization whether it's a church of organization whether it's a church of 30 people or you know 3 000 people 30 people or you know 3 000 people 30 people or you know 3 000 people there's a heavy weight to carry there there's a heavy weight to carry there there's a heavy weight to carry there and so and so and so you're right making sure that you you're right making sure that you you're right making sure that you prioritize your personal prioritize your personal prioritize your personal relational time with god and focus on relational time with god and focus on relational time with god and focus on you know you know you know actually reading scripture because you actually reading scripture because you actually reading scripture because you need to feed on it not because you're need to feed on it not because you're need to feed on it not because you're preparing a really awesome preparing a really awesome preparing a really awesome sermon to deliver on sunday right and sermon to deliver on sunday right and sermon to deliver on sunday right and and prayer time that's about cultivating and prayer time that's about cultivating and prayer time that's about cultivating your own character and your own heart your own character and your own heart your own character and your own heart rather than just praying that god will rather than just praying that god will rather than just praying that god will bless the ministry that you lead right bless the ministry that you lead right bless the ministry that you lead right so right so right so right and you know as many church players as and you know as many church players as and you know as many church players as you talk to you probably do the same you talk to you probably do the same you talk to you probably do the same thing that i do whenever i talk to our thing that i do whenever i talk to our thing that i do whenever i talk to our church planners church planners church planners right after they launch whatever my right after they launch whatever my right after they launch whatever my first 10 minutes of conversation is first 10 minutes of conversation is first 10 minutes of conversation is about them about them about them and about their family because that and about their family because that and about their family because that really really really you know church growth and this tip and you know church growth and this tip and you know church growth and this tip and that tip you know i can give it you can that tip you know i can give it you can that tip you know i can give it you can give it they can give it they can give it they can google it find it ask a friend you know google it find it ask a friend you know google it find it ask a friend you know there's resources galore everywhere there's resources galore everywhere there's resources galore everywhere but i want to know how they're how they but i want to know how they're how they but i want to know how they're how they are doing are doing are doing and how their marriage is doing how is and how their marriage is doing how is and how their marriage is doing how is their relationship with their kids their relationship with their kids their relationship with their kids had they been on a family vacation since had they been on a family vacation since had they been on a family vacation since they launched had they gone on a date they launched had they gone on a date they launched had they gone on a date night night night what can i do to help you do that if what can i do to help you do that if what can i do to help you do that if it's not been taking place i'm sure you it's not been taking place i'm sure you it's not been taking place i'm sure you have have have very similar conversations you know very similar conversations you know very similar conversations you know knowing knowing what you know what you knowing knowing what you know what you knowing knowing what you know what you just expressed just expressed just expressed okay mark that was awesome and i could okay mark that was awesome and i could okay mark that was awesome and i could do this all day but we really shouldn't do this all day but we really shouldn't do this all day but we really shouldn't we're we're we're actually over our time so i appreciate

actually over our time so i appreciate actually over our time so i appreciate you spending the time with me i'm gonna you spending the time with me i'm gonna you spending the time with me i'm gonna fire three fire three fire three quick questions to you just kind of the quick questions to you just kind of the quick questions to you just kind of the last three these are sort of last three these are sort of last three these are sort of fun and out of left field um but just a fun and out of left field um but just a fun and out of left field um but just a little more thought provoking little more thought provoking little more thought provoking the first one is what's the best advice the first one is what's the best advice the first one is what's the best advice that you've ever been given that you've ever been given that you've ever been given as an adult uh my spiritual father as an adult uh my spiritual father as an adult uh my spiritual father pastor dino rizzo pastor dino rizzo pastor dino rizzo uh my best friend mentor and boss still uh my best friend mentor and boss still uh my best friend mentor and boss still so so so he said this a long time ago and i've he said this a long time ago and i've he said this a long time ago and i've never forgotten it when i was a young never forgotten it when i was a young never forgotten it when i was a young young young man young young man young young man uh it's about the towel and not the uh it's about the towel and not the uh it's about the towel and not the title in other words as you title in other words as you title in other words as you mature and get older in life it really mature and get older in life it really mature and get older in life it really becomes more and more about others becomes more and more about others becomes more and more about others in your personal life and in ministry as in your personal life and in ministry as in your personal life and in ministry as well and you just love well and you just love well and you just love to see other people succeed so just to see other people succeed so just to see other people succeed so just reaching and serving people reaching and serving people reaching and serving people um it's it's more about the tal than the um it's it's more about the tal than the um it's it's more about the tal than the title title title okay i'm just going to clarify in this okay i'm just going to clarify in this okay i'm just going to clarify in this really confused louisiana really confused louisiana really confused louisiana alabama accent that word was towel alabama accent that word was towel alabama accent that word was towel t-o-w-e use a towel to wipe off the t-o-w-e use a towel to wipe off the t-o-w-e use a towel to wipe off the sweat from humidity there you go it's sweat from humidity there you go it's sweat from humidity there you go it's all about the towel all about the towel all about the towel not the title okay that's good i just not the title okay that's good i just not the title okay that's good i just want to make sure that that was that was want to make sure that that was that was want to make sure that that was that was clear clear clear um okay notwithstanding the fact that um okay notwithstanding the fact that um okay notwithstanding the fact that you know one of the things that we would you know one of the things that we would you know one of the things that we would both say to church planters and any both say to church planters and any both say to church planters and any pastor is don't spend too much time on pastor is don't spend too much time on pastor is don't spend too much time on social media social media social media especially comparing yourself to others especially comparing yourself to others especially comparing yourself to others um who do you um who do you um who do you follow on social media personally that follow on social media personally that follow on social media personally that you find you find you find either interesting or fascinating or either interesting or fascinating or either interesting or fascinating or informative informative informative yeah i can't necessarily spout off a yeah i can't necessarily spout off a yeah i can't necessarily spout off a bunch of different names but what i bunch of different names but what i bunch of different names but what i actually really enjoy who i enjoy actually really enjoy who i enjoy actually really enjoy who i enjoy following are people that i following are people that i following are people that i probably disagree with on some things

probably disagree with on some things probably disagree with on some things i love seeing their points how they're i love seeing their points how they're i love seeing their points how they're making their points having an open heart making their points having an open heart making their points having an open heart and mind to and mind to and mind to say okay why do i think opposite and say okay why do i think opposite and say okay why do i think opposite and learn you know learn you know learn you know either reaffirm what i believe or either reaffirm what i believe or either reaffirm what i believe or possibly evolve it as well possibly evolve it as well possibly evolve it as well it also helps me if i ever get a chance it also helps me if i ever get a chance it also helps me if i ever get a chance to meet them to to meet them to to meet them to have a talking point as well so i have a talking point as well so i have a talking point as well so i actually enjoy and follow a lot of actually enjoy and follow a lot of actually enjoy and follow a lot of people i probably people i probably people i probably disagree with on on a lot of different disagree with on on a lot of different disagree with on on a lot of different you know topics or opinions or whatnot you know topics or opinions or whatnot you know topics or opinions or whatnot from sports to politics to from sports to politics to from sports to politics to you know uh being a believer or or you know uh being a believer or or you know uh being a believer or or whatnot so whatnot so whatnot so and i'm trusting on your general and i'm trusting on your general and i'm trusting on your general demeanor as a human being that you're demeanor as a human being that you're demeanor as a human being that you're not a troll not a troll not a troll to those people right you're just you're to those people right you're just you're to those people right you're just you're you're just spying on them quietly to you're just spying on them quietly to you're just spying on them quietly to see what they have to say see what they have to say see what they have to say you know believe it or not i just you know believe it or not i just you know believe it or not i just believe that we're all supposed to believe that we're all supposed to believe that we're all supposed to respect and honor one another as respect and honor one another as respect and honor one another as as children of god so no i don't i don't as children of god so no i don't i don't as children of god so no i don't i don't try to troll unless it's sports try to troll unless it's sports try to troll unless it's sports sports i'm mature like matthew barnett sports i'm mature like matthew barnett sports i'm mature like matthew barnett he and i go way back on trolling each he and i go way back on trolling each he and i go way back on trolling each other other other on our college football fandom so on our college football fandom so on our college football fandom so well speaking of which and i know what well speaking of which and i know what well speaking of which and i know what the answer to this next question is the answer to this next question is the answer to this next question is going to be going to be going to be if you weren't doing your current job if you weren't doing your current job if you weren't doing your current job today today today at arc what would you be doing i'd be at arc what would you be doing i'd be at arc what would you be doing i'd be the athletic director at the athletic director at the athletic director at university of notre dame making sure the university of notre dame making sure the university of notre dame making sure the football team continues to dominate football team continues to dominate football team continues to dominate matthew barnett's matthew barnett's matthew barnett's usc trojans usc trojans usc trojans okay well we'll make sure that matthew okay well we'll make sure that matthew okay well we'll make sure that matthew gets a copy of this podcast we can edit gets a copy of this podcast we can edit gets a copy of this podcast we can edit out that little clip and send it to him out that little clip and send it to him out that little clip and send it to him especially if if he needs it um hey mark especially if if he needs it um hey mark especially if if he needs it um hey mark i really appreciate you um taking the i really appreciate you um taking the i really appreciate you um taking the time with me today this has been time with me today this has been time with me today this has been really cool to just kind of pick your

really cool to just kind of pick your really cool to just kind of pick your brain on some of these matters you have brain on some of these matters you have brain on some of these matters you have a a a front row seat to a lot of stuff that's front row seat to a lot of stuff that's front row seat to a lot of stuff that's going on in the church planting world going on in the church planting world going on in the church planting world um if anyone that's listening to our um if anyone that's listening to our um if anyone that's listening to our podcast or watching online here would podcast or watching online here would podcast or watching online here would like to connect with you maybe they have like to connect with you maybe they have like to connect with you maybe they have more questions about arc about church more questions about arc about church more questions about arc about church planting stuff that you guys are working planting stuff that you guys are working planting stuff that you guys are working on how can they how can they reach you on how can they how can they reach you on how can they how can they reach you it's simple uh my email address is mark it's simple uh my email address is mark it's simple uh my email address is mark m-a-r-c m-a-r-c m-a-r-c at arc churches dot com m-a-r-c at arc at arc churches dot com m-a-r-c at arc at arc churches dot com m-a-r-c at arc arcarc arcarc arcarc churches c-h-u-r-c-h-e-s dot com churches c-h-u-r-c-h-e-s dot com churches c-h-u-r-c-h-e-s dot com okay i'll make sure that i include that okay i'll make sure that i include that okay i'll make sure that i include that in the show notes for this podcast as in the show notes for this podcast as in the show notes for this podcast as well as a link to the arc website and uh well as a link to the arc website and uh well as a link to the arc website and uh i hope that i hope that some of our i hope that i hope that some of our i hope that i hope that some of our listeners will reach out to you with listeners will reach out to you with listeners will reach out to you with big dreams big ideas big goals to expand big dreams big ideas big goals to expand big dreams big ideas big goals to expand god's kingdom through church planting god's kingdom through church planting god's kingdom through church planting thanks again mark thanks again mark thanks again mark oh thank you honor really honored to be oh thank you honor really honored to be oh thank you honor really honored to be here thank you