Strategic Marketing for Churches | Jason and Bart | Ep. 167

[Music] [Music] How do I build an effective marketing How do I build an effective marketing How do I build an effective marketing campaign? Well, what what's what's the campaign? Well, what what's what's the campaign? Well, what what's what's the desired result of the campaign? So, if desired result of the campaign? So, if desired result of the campaign? So, if you don't have a you don't have a you don't have a well-defined desired result, how do you well-defined desired result, how do you well-defined desired result, how do you even know if what you've done is even know if what you've done is even know if what you've done is effective or not? Well, welcome to effective or not? Well, welcome to effective or not? Well, welcome to another episode of the Missional another episode of the Missional another episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast, where our goal is to Marketing Podcast, where our goal is to Marketing Podcast, where our goal is to help churches grow by leveraging digital help churches grow by leveraging digital help churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications. marketing and effective communications. marketing and effective communications. My name is Bart Blair and well I have I My name is Bart Blair and well I have I My name is Bart Blair and well I have I have a new job title since the last time have a new job title since the last time have a new job title since the last time we uh since the last time we recorded a we uh since the last time we recorded a we uh since the last time we recorded a podcast. It's been a while. I'm joined podcast. It's been a while. I'm joined podcast. It's been a while. I'm joined by Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of by Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of by Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of Missional Marketing and uh I I have a Missional Marketing and uh I I have a Missional Marketing and uh I I have a new job title. My job title changed uh new job title. My job title changed uh new job title. My job title changed uh from being a digital marketing from being a digital marketing from being a digital marketing strategist, coach or whatever it was to strategist, coach or whatever it was to strategist, coach or whatever it was to now being the brand director for now being the brand director for now being the brand director for missional marketing. That's right. missional marketing. That's right. missional marketing. That's right. That's kind of cool. I can it is cool That's kind of cool. I can it is cool That's kind of cool. I can it is cool and it it fits really well for for your and it it fits really well for for your and it it fits really well for for your for your what you you what what you've for your what you you what what you've for your what you you what what you've been doing to lead and and pour into uh been doing to lead and and pour into uh been doing to lead and and pour into uh missional marketing. So the title fits missional marketing. So the title fits missional marketing. So the title fits Bart. I don't really know what a brand Bart. I don't really know what a brand Bart. I don't really know what a brand director does, but I'm learning every director does, but I'm learning every director does, but I'm learning every day. Uh I'm learning a little bit more day. Uh I'm learning a little bit more day. Uh I'm learning a little bit more every day. So it's been a it's been a every day. So it's been a it's been a every day. So it's been a it's been a fun it's been a fun ride. Uh we are in fun it's been a fun ride. Uh we are in fun it's been a fun ride. Uh we are in 2025, which has also been a fun ride. I 2025, which has also been a fun ride. I 2025, which has also been a fun ride. I mean we're already by the time uh this mean we're already by the time uh this mean we're already by the time uh this podcast drops, we're probably a quarter podcast drops, we're probably a quarter podcast drops, we're probably a quarter of the way through the year. It's of the way through the year. It's of the way through the year. It's absolutely amazing. Uh Easter is coming absolutely amazing. Uh Easter is coming absolutely amazing. Uh Easter is coming up upon us. And one of the things that up upon us. And one of the things that up upon us. And one of the things that you and I, Jason, have just been in the you and I, Jason, have just been in the you and I, Jason, have just been in the weeds on here the last few weeks is weeds on here the last few weeks is weeds on here the last few weeks is advertising campaigns, marketing advertising campaigns, marketing advertising campaigns, marketing campaigns, uh specifically related to campaigns, uh specifically related to campaigns, uh specifically related to Easter, but obviously all kinds of other

Easter, but obviously all kinds of other Easter, but obviously all kinds of other marketing campaigns. And what I want to marketing campaigns. And what I want to marketing campaigns. And what I want to do in this episode today is I I want us do in this episode today is I I want us do in this episode today is I I want us to answer for our audience as a whole to answer for our audience as a whole to answer for our audience as a whole some of the questions that we get pretty some of the questions that we get pretty some of the questions that we get pretty regularly when we're working with regularly when we're working with regularly when we're working with churches. The top question is always churches. The top question is always churches. The top question is always like, what makes for an effective like, what makes for an effective like, what makes for an effective marketing campaign? How do I know if marketing campaign? How do I know if marketing campaign? How do I know if what I'm doing is going to actually be what I'm doing is going to actually be what I'm doing is going to actually be effective? Because we we want to steward effective? Because we we want to steward effective? Because we we want to steward our resources well as a church. So, if our resources well as a church. So, if our resources well as a church. So, if you're going to spend money, you want to you're going to spend money, you want to you're going to spend money, you want to make sure that you're going to get a make sure that you're going to get a make sure that you're going to get a positive ROI for the money that you positive ROI for the money that you positive ROI for the money that you spend, whether you're talking about spend, whether you're talking about spend, whether you're talking about digital ads or or traditional marketing, digital ads or or traditional marketing, digital ads or or traditional marketing, print print print marketing, billboards, you name it, the marketing, billboards, you name it, the marketing, billboards, you name it, the different options that you have. How do different options that you have. How do different options that you have. How do you know that this campaign is going to you know that this campaign is going to you know that this campaign is going to be successful? So, let me kick this off be successful? So, let me kick this off be successful? So, let me kick this off by just posing the question to you, by just posing the question to you, by just posing the question to you, Jason, right out of the get-go. If I'm Jason, right out of the get-go. If I'm Jason, right out of the get-go. If I'm going to plan a marketing campaign, what going to plan a marketing campaign, what going to plan a marketing campaign, what are some of the first questions that I are some of the first questions that I are some of the first questions that I probably need to ask myself uh so that I probably need to ask myself uh so that I probably need to ask myself uh so that I can actually design an effective can actually design an effective can actually design an effective marketing campaign? What are some of the marketing campaign? What are some of the marketing campaign? What are some of the big questions you would be asking if you big questions you would be asking if you big questions you would be asking if you go into a room when you're getting ready go into a room when you're getting ready go into a room when you're getting ready to start planning a marketing campaign?

to start planning a marketing campaign? to start planning a marketing campaign? I could probably come up with 20 of I could probably come up with 20 of I could probably come up with 20 of them, so I we don't have that much time. them, so I we don't have that much time. them, so I we don't have that much time. So, you know, obviously, why do we do So, you know, obviously, why do we do So, you know, obviously, why do we do it? Well, we we have a result in mind. it? Well, we we have a result in mind. it? Well, we we have a result in mind. We have a goal in we should have a goal We have a goal in we should have a goal We have a goal in we should have a goal in mind. And I work with a lot of in mind. And I work with a lot of in mind. And I work with a lot of churches that we don't always think churches that we don't always think churches that we don't always think about the goal. We just know we have to about the goal. We just know we have to about the goal. We just know we have to do it. It's almost like, h we just got do it. It's almost like, h we just got do it. It's almost like, h we just got to spend money on this because Easter's to spend money on this because Easter's to spend money on this because Easter's coming up. Yet, I don't think we really coming up. Yet, I don't think we really coming up. Yet, I don't think we really think about what's the what's the goal? think about what's the what's the goal? think about what's the what's the goal? Is it we we had 2,800 people in seats Is it we we had 2,800 people in seats Is it we we had 2,800 people in seats last year. we want to hit 3,000 or 3,200 last year. we want to hit 3,000 or 3,200 last year. we want to hit 3,000 or 3,200 you know what's the goal for whatever you know what's the goal for whatever you know what's the goal for whatever event if you're having a you know event if you're having a you know event if you're having a you know onampus event for you know fall fest is onampus event for you know fall fest is onampus event for you know fall fest is it number of people walking through the it number of people walking through the it number of people walking through the gate so to speak or is it a class you gate so to speak or is it a class you gate so to speak or is it a class you know a financial peace university you know a financial peace university you know a financial peace university you know what's the goal so I kind of I know what's the goal so I kind of I know what's the goal so I kind of I always want to start there um sometimes always want to start there um sometimes always want to start there um sometimes we don't go that far as comm's people we we don't go that far as comm's people we we don't go that far as comm's people we just been tasked to spend some money on just been tasked to spend some money on just been tasked to spend some money on a campaign and hope for the best so a campaign and hope for the best so a campaign and hope for the best so that's probably the biggest question is, that's probably the biggest question is, that's probably the biggest question is, have you actually taken the time to set have you actually taken the time to set have you actually taken the time to set a goal for what you want to achieve? I a goal for what you want to achieve? I a goal for what you want to achieve? I think that's really really good because think that's really really good because think that's really really good because when you know the big picture question when you know the big picture question when you know the big picture question that I asked here is how do I build an that I asked here is how do I build an that I asked here is how do I build an effective marketing campaign? Well, what effective marketing campaign? Well, what effective marketing campaign? Well, what what's what's the desired result of the what's what's the desired result of the what's what's the desired result of the campaign? So, if you don't have a campaign? So, if you don't have a campaign? So, if you don't have a well-defined desired result, how do you well-defined desired result, how do you well-defined desired result, how do you even know if what you've done is even know if what you've done is even know if what you've done is effective or not? know. Yeah. It's sort effective or not? know. Yeah. It's sort effective or not? know. Yeah. It's sort of like it's sort of like, you know, we of like it's sort of like, you know, we of like it's sort of like, you know, we just it was only a month or so ago that

just it was only a month or so ago that just it was only a month or so ago that some of us watched the Super Bowl or some of us watched the Super Bowl or some of us watched the Super Bowl or parts of the Super Bowl or maybe the parts of the Super Bowl or maybe the parts of the Super Bowl or maybe the halftime of the Super Bowl. Actually, I halftime of the Super Bowl. Actually, I halftime of the Super Bowl. Actually, I don't know anybody who just tuned in for don't know anybody who just tuned in for don't know anybody who just tuned in for the halftime, this last Super Bowl, but the halftime, this last Super Bowl, but the halftime, this last Super Bowl, but hey, that's uh political commentary I hey, that's uh political commentary I hey, that's uh political commentary I should just leave alone. Anyway, one of should just leave alone. Anyway, one of should just leave alone. Anyway, one of the big things that a lot of people like the big things that a lot of people like the big things that a lot of people like about the Super Bowl are the ads, right? about the Super Bowl are the ads, right? about the Super Bowl are the ads, right? The ads that are run in the Super Bowl. The ads that are run in the Super Bowl. The ads that are run in the Super Bowl. Well, how do we as consumers judge the Well, how do we as consumers judge the Well, how do we as consumers judge the effectiveness of Super Bowl ads? was how effectiveness of Super Bowl ads? was how effectiveness of Super Bowl ads? was how much people are talking about the ads much people are talking about the ads much people are talking about the ads after. Oh, did you see the ad that did after. Oh, did you see the ad that did after. Oh, did you see the ad that did this or did you see that ad with that this or did you see that ad with that this or did you see that ad with that actor in it or what that that ad that actor in it or what that that ad that actor in it or what that that ad that company did? But I can guarantee you company did? But I can guarantee you company did? But I can guarantee you those companies that are spending those companies that are spending those companies that are spending millions and millions of dollars millions and millions of dollars millions and millions of dollars producing and then paying for those ad producing and then paying for those ad producing and then paying for those ad spots, they have to have some sort of spots, they have to have some sort of spots, they have to have some sort of ROI in mind in terms of sales, ROI in mind in terms of sales, ROI in mind in terms of sales, marketing, lead generation, clicks to marketing, lead generation, clicks to marketing, lead generation, clicks to their website, you know, new customers their website, you know, new customers their website, you know, new customers acquired. There's got to be something acquired. There's got to be something acquired. There's got to be something that they're measuring there. Otherwise, that they're measuring there. Otherwise, that they're measuring there. Otherwise, they're literally throwing tens of they're literally throwing tens of they're literally throwing tens of millions or hundreds of millions of millions or hundreds of millions of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars out the door. We can't do that dollars out the door. We can't do that dollars out the door. We can't do that as a church. We need to define what the as a church. We need to define what the as a church. We need to define what the desired result is for our campaign.

desired result is for our campaign. desired result is for our campaign. Yeah. They take it to the the furthest Yeah. They take it to the the furthest Yeah. They take it to the the furthest degree possible. That's why, you know, degree possible. That's why, you know, degree possible. That's why, you know, why does Doritos spend? Because they why does Doritos spend? Because they why does Doritos spend? Because they know when they spend money on the Super know when they spend money on the Super know when they spend money on the Super Bowl, their sales go up and the more Bowl, their sales go up and the more Bowl, their sales go up and the more eyeballs seeing those ads, the more eyeballs seeing those ads, the more eyeballs seeing those ads, the more sales they get. So, I mean, we don't do sales they get. So, I mean, we don't do sales they get. So, I mean, we don't do that in the church world really at all. that in the church world really at all. that in the church world really at all. It's more we just put together a budget It's more we just put together a budget It's more we just put together a budget what we think is available for us and what we think is available for us and what we think is available for us and then we just go spend money. And then we just go spend money. And then we just go spend money. And sometimes churches do it, sometimes they sometimes churches do it, sometimes they sometimes churches do it, sometimes they don't. So yeah, the goal is pretty darn don't. So yeah, the goal is pretty darn don't. So yeah, the goal is pretty darn important. Now, let's back up from important. Now, let's back up from important. Now, let's back up from there. So, let's say you do kind of have there. So, let's say you do kind of have there. So, let's say you do kind of have a goal in mind and you're going, "Okay, a goal in mind and you're going, "Okay, a goal in mind and you're going, "Okay, well, we want to have more people. well, we want to have more people. well, we want to have more people. That's what we're about. We're trying to That's what we're about. We're trying to That's what we're about. We're trying to we're not selling stuff here. We're we're not selling stuff here. We're we're not selling stuff here. We're trying to get more attendance to trying to get more attendance to trying to get more attendance to something probably uh to to our, you something probably uh to to our, you something probably uh to to our, you know, to our event." Now, we got to back know, to our event." Now, we got to back know, to our event." Now, we got to back up and go, "Okay, how are we going to up and go, "Okay, how are we going to up and go, "Okay, how are we going to measure this?" Well, there's a lot of I measure this?" Well, there's a lot of I measure this?" Well, there's a lot of I I guess if you look at a funnel, there's I guess if you look at a funnel, there's I guess if you look at a funnel, there's a lot of rings to that funnel. If you're a lot of rings to that funnel. If you're a lot of rings to that funnel. If you're going to run an ad campaign, you're going to run an ad campaign, you're going to run an ad campaign, you're trying to get the most exposure as you trying to get the most exposure as you trying to get the most exposure as you possibly can to your target audience.

possibly can to your target audience. possibly can to your target audience. That's pretty darn important. Who is That's pretty darn important. Who is That's pretty darn important. Who is your target audience? You got to make your target audience? You got to make your target audience? You got to make sure you've identified who your target sure you've identified who your target sure you've identified who your target audience is because that's really going audience is because that's really going audience is because that's really going to determine what kind of mechanism or to determine what kind of mechanism or to determine what kind of mechanism or platform you actually use for your ads. platform you actually use for your ads. platform you actually use for your ads. You know what I'm saying? You know what You know what I'm saying? You know what You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm talking about. Oh, absolutely. I I'm talking about. Oh, absolutely. I I'm talking about. Oh, absolutely. I also think it it determines what assets also think it it determines what assets also think it it determines what assets you use in the ad campaign. And let me you use in the ad campaign. And let me you use in the ad campaign. And let me use let me use this as an example. Um I use let me use this as an example. Um I use let me use this as an example. Um I have a conversation lots of have a conversation lots of have a conversation lots of conversations with churches. Uh right conversations with churches. Uh right conversations with churches. Uh right now it's Easter. Uh a lot of them are now it's Easter. Uh a lot of them are now it's Easter. Uh a lot of them are are dipping their toes in the water of are dipping their toes in the water of are dipping their toes in the water of using uh video ads more video content using uh video ads more video content using uh video ads more video content specifically in YouTube. You know, we've specifically in YouTube. You know, we've specifically in YouTube. You know, we've sort of we sort of learned that if you sort of we sort of learned that if you sort of we sort of learned that if you want to reach young men in America want to reach young men in America want to reach young men in America today, YouTube is probably the best today, YouTube is probably the best today, YouTube is probably the best platform on which to do so. And so I get platform on which to do so. And so I get platform on which to do so. And so I get asked the question all the time. So asked the question all the time. So asked the question all the time. So should we just get our pastor to do like should we just get our pastor to do like should we just get our pastor to do like a talking head invitation or do we need a talking head invitation or do we need a talking head invitation or do we need to have lots of B-roll or whatever? And to have lots of B-roll or whatever? And to have lots of B-roll or whatever? And the first here's here's the question I the first here's here's the question I the first here's here's the question I ask. I know and and I don't mean to ask. I know and and I don't mean to ask. I know and and I don't mean to sound like an agist, but I'm old, so I'm sound like an agist, but I'm old, so I'm sound like an agist, but I'm old, so I'm able to do this. I'm the oldest one on able to do this. I'm the oldest one on able to do this. I'm the oldest one on this podcast today. Um I ask this this podcast today. Um I ask this this podcast today. Um I ask this question. So how old is your pastor? Oh, question. So how old is your pastor? Oh, question. So how old is your pastor? Oh, he's he's my age. He's 50 55. That's how he's he's my age. He's 50 55. That's how he's he's my age. He's 50 55. That's how old I am. So now everyone knows how old old I am. So now everyone knows how old old I am. So now everyone knows how old I am. I'm 55. Well, how old is your I am. I'm 55. Well, how old is your I am. I'm 55. Well, how old is your target audience? uh we're aiming to target audience? uh we're aiming to target audience? uh we're aiming to reach, you know, 30 to 38 year olds.

reach, you know, 30 to 38 year olds. reach, you know, 30 to 38 year olds. Okay. So, I don't know that a call to Okay. So, I don't know that a call to Okay. So, I don't know that a call to action from a 55y old is probably the action from a 55y old is probably the action from a 55y old is probably the most effective for reaching 35 year most effective for reaching 35 year most effective for reaching 35 year olds. Uh cuz it's really their it's olds. Uh cuz it's really their it's olds. Uh cuz it's really their it's you're talking about somebody their you're talking about somebody their you're talking about somebody their parents' age in a lot of cases. I parents' age in a lot of cases. I parents' age in a lot of cases. I suggest that you use people in your suggest that you use people in your suggest that you use people in your videos who look like the people that videos who look like the people that videos who look like the people that you're actually trying to reach. If you're actually trying to reach. If you're actually trying to reach. If you're aiming to reach young couples in you're aiming to reach young couples in you're aiming to reach young couples in their early to mid30s, then find people their early to mid30s, then find people their early to mid30s, then find people who can be in your videos who look like who can be in your videos who look like who can be in your videos who look like the people that you're trying to reach. the people that you're trying to reach. the people that you're trying to reach. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't Now, that doesn't mean that you can't Now, that doesn't mean that you can't also include a video of your pastor. Uh also include a video of your pastor. Uh also include a video of your pastor. Uh your home, your home church, uh in the your home, your home church, uh in the your home, your home church, uh in the Phoenix area, Sun Valley, uh does this. Phoenix area, Sun Valley, uh does this. Phoenix area, Sun Valley, uh does this. They do amazing video work. They always They do amazing video work. They always They do amazing video work. They always include a video from Pastor Chad. He's include a video from Pastor Chad. He's include a video from Pastor Chad. He's my age. Yep. But but those are not the my age. Yep. But but those are not the my age. Yep. But but those are not the best performing ads. The best performing best performing ads. The best performing best performing ads. The best performing ads are the ones where they have other ads are the ones where they have other ads are the ones where they have other staff members who do those talking head staff members who do those talking head staff members who do those talking head invites who are in the target age range invites who are in the target age range invites who are in the target age range of the people in the community that of the people in the community that of the people in the community that they're trying to to reach. So because they're trying to to reach. So because they're trying to to reach. So because you have, you know, 20 seconds. I mean, you have, you know, 20 seconds. I mean, you have, you know, 20 seconds. I mean, yeah, exactly. So, you know, if if yeah, exactly. So, you know, if if yeah, exactly. So, you know, if if Chad's on stage, he has 30 minutes to Chad's on stage, he has 30 minutes to Chad's on stage, he has 30 minutes to connect and he does an amazing job of connect and he does an amazing job of connect and he does an amazing job of that taking that 30 minutes and really that taking that 30 minutes and really that taking that 30 minutes and really connecting with every age, you know, connecting with every age, you know, connecting with every age, you know, every age demographic in the room. But every age demographic in the room. But every age demographic in the room. But like you said, on on social media on a like you said, on on social media on a like you said, on on social media on a device, you've got seconds to make a device, you've got seconds to make a device, you've got seconds to make a connection. Yeah. Uh let's talk a little connection. Yeah. Uh let's talk a little connection. Yeah. Uh let's talk a little bit about the calls to action from the bit about the calls to action from the bit about the calls to action from the different ad types. And obviously our

different ad types. And obviously our different ad types. And obviously our our bread and butter uh our bread and our bread and butter uh our bread and our bread and butter uh our bread and butter is is digital marketing. That's butter is is digital marketing. That's butter is is digital marketing. That's what we do, right? We're we're running what we do, right? We're we're running what we do, right? We're we're running ad campaigns on the Google platforms, on ad campaigns on the Google platforms, on ad campaigns on the Google platforms, on the Meta platforms, and a a few of the the Meta platforms, and a a few of the the Meta platforms, and a a few of the other peripheral ones that from time to other peripheral ones that from time to other peripheral ones that from time to time a church asks us to use. Um, and by time a church asks us to use. Um, and by time a church asks us to use. Um, and by and large, we know we can get our ads in and large, we know we can get our ads in and large, we know we can get our ads in front of tens of thousands of people in front of tens of thousands of people in front of tens of thousands of people in a very short period of time. Um, when it a very short period of time. Um, when it a very short period of time. Um, when it comes to a call to action, Jason, what comes to a call to action, Jason, what comes to a call to action, Jason, what are the things that you think make for are the things that you think make for are the things that you think make for an effective CTA in those ad campaigns? an effective CTA in those ad campaigns? an effective CTA in those ad campaigns? Well, I think the first thing you have Well, I think the first thing you have Well, I think the first thing you have to do is um is is connect with them. You to do is um is is connect with them. You to do is um is is connect with them. You know, I'm a big fan of uh Donald Miller know, I'm a big fan of uh Donald Miller know, I'm a big fan of uh Donald Miller and just, you know, drop him. If you and just, you know, drop him. If you and just, you know, drop him. If you guys haven't read the story, you know, guys haven't read the story, you know, guys haven't read the story, you know, building a story brand, check that out building a story brand, check that out building a story brand, check that out because I think you got to make a because I think you got to make a because I think you got to make a connection with the audience. You got to connection with the audience. You got to connection with the audience. You got to you got to speak to them and with them, you got to speak to them and with them, you got to speak to them and with them, not at them. And so, you know, the call not at them. And so, you know, the call not at them. And so, you know, the call to action is really important because to action is really important because to action is really important because it's got to speak to them. It's got to it's got to speak to them. It's got to it's got to speak to them. It's got to be it's got to be relatable to them, be it's got to be relatable to them, be it's got to be relatable to them, something that they might be dealing something that they might be dealing something that they might be dealing with. You know, it's just not, hey, come with. You know, it's just not, hey, come with. You know, it's just not, hey, come to our to our to our Easter services and blah blah blah blah Easter services and blah blah blah blah Easter services and blah blah blah blah blah. You should be a little bit more blah. You should be a little bit more blah. You should be a little bit more like we want to help you on your journey like we want to help you on your journey like we want to help you on your journey to discover what God is. He's for you.

to discover what God is. He's for you. to discover what God is. He's for you. He's not against you. And if you come He's not against you. And if you come He's not against you. And if you come this Easter, you're going to learn about this Easter, you're going to learn about this Easter, you're going to learn about how you can improve your life. Right? how you can improve your life. Right? how you can improve your life. Right? So, there's a there's a subtle way to to So, there's a there's a subtle way to to So, there's a there's a subtle way to to say and talk about that, you know, that say and talk about that, you know, that say and talk about that, you know, that call to action. And obviously what we're call to action. And obviously what we're call to action. And obviously what we're trying to get them to do is show up in trying to get them to do is show up in trying to get them to do is show up in the seat, right? We talked about that's the seat, right? We talked about that's the seat, right? We talked about that's our goal. But, you know, maybe the first our goal. But, you know, maybe the first our goal. But, you know, maybe the first step is, you know, click right here to step is, you know, click right here to step is, you know, click right here to to learn more about how God is going to to learn more about how God is going to to learn more about how God is going to change your life this Easter season or change your life this Easter season or change your life this Easter season or something like that. So, I'm a big fan something like that. So, I'm a big fan something like that. So, I'm a big fan of trying to get people to lead them to of trying to get people to lead them to of trying to get people to lead them to a landing page so that we can, you know, a landing page so that we can, you know, a landing page so that we can, you know, that's the first little hurdle, right? that's the first little hurdle, right? that's the first little hurdle, right? Get them to a landing page. Now, we can Get them to a landing page. Now, we can Get them to a landing page. Now, we can communicate with them and keep them communicate with them and keep them communicate with them and keep them going on their journey. I'm going to going on their journey. I'm going to going on their journey. I'm going to double click on your click there for a double click on your click there for a double click on your click there for a second because I think so when we were second because I think so when we were second because I think so when we were talking about knowing your audience, talking about knowing your audience, talking about knowing your audience, knowing your target, um, we brought up, knowing your target, um, we brought up, knowing your target, um, we brought up, you know, age and gender, you know, you know, age and gender, you know, you know, age and gender, you know, young men, 35 years old, but what you young men, 35 years old, but what you young men, 35 years old, but what you just said actually tells me that when just said actually tells me that when just said actually tells me that when you're creating your profile for your you're creating your profile for your you're creating your profile for your target, there's another layer that you target, there's another layer that you target, there's another layer that you need to to to dig down into, and that is need to to to dig down into, and that is need to to to dig down into, and that is knowing and understanding the worries, knowing and understanding the worries, knowing and understanding the worries, the fears, and the hopes and the dreams.

the fears, and the hopes and the dreams. the fears, and the hopes and the dreams. names of the people that you're trying names of the people that you're trying names of the people that you're trying to reach because your call to action to reach because your call to action to reach because your call to action needs to speak to those things. So if needs to speak to those things. So if needs to speak to those things. So if the if you believe that you know the the if you believe that you know the the if you believe that you know the average 35year-old guy I was working I average 35year-old guy I was working I average 35year-old guy I was working I was working with a church in in was working with a church in in was working with a church in in California a couple of years ago and I California a couple of years ago and I California a couple of years ago and I was kind of doing this exercise with was kind of doing this exercise with was kind of doing this exercise with them and we were kind of creating a prof them and we were kind of creating a prof them and we were kind of creating a prof profile of who they were targeting in profile of who they were targeting in profile of who they were targeting in the community and and I was asking them the community and and I was asking them the community and and I was asking them questions like what are some of the questions like what are some of the questions like what are some of the biggest fears of people in your biggest fears of people in your biggest fears of people in your community and one of them was that community and one of them was that community and one of them was that they'll never own a home that the cost they'll never own a home that the cost they'll never own a home that the cost of housing the cost of owning a home in of housing the cost of owning a home in of housing the cost of owning a home in this community is so expensive and so this community is so expensive and so this community is so expensive and so people are one step away from people are one step away from people are one step away from homelessness because you lose your job, homelessness because you lose your job, homelessness because you lose your job, you find yourself unemployed, you have you find yourself unemployed, you have you find yourself unemployed, you have an illness or whatever, um, and you an illness or whatever, um, and you an illness or whatever, um, and you don't own your home, then you're you don't own your home, then you're you don't own your home, then you're you could literally be one step away from could literally be one step away from could literally be one step away from homelessness. I was like, that is crazy homelessness. I was like, that is crazy homelessness. I was like, that is crazy for me to think about. But when they for me to think about. But when they for me to think about. But when they started working on their marketing started working on their marketing started working on their marketing language, they started using the idea of language, they started using the idea of language, they started using the idea of the church being a home, a safe place, a the church being a home, a safe place, a the church being a home, a safe place, a refuge. So, they were using language refuge. So, they were using language refuge. So, they were using language that actually directly spoke to that that actually directly spoke to that that actually directly spoke to that deep-seated fear that they think people deep-seated fear that they think people deep-seated fear that they think people in their community have. Now, granted, in their community have. Now, granted, in their community have. Now, granted, you know, the church isn't technically a you know, the church isn't technically a you know, the church isn't technically a home, but using that language that still home, but using that language that still home, but using that language that still fit with those same fears, I thought fit with those same fears, I thought fit with those same fears, I thought that was it was super powerful. It was that was it was super powerful. It was that was it was super powerful. It was really super powerful. So, when you're really super powerful. So, when you're really super powerful. So, when you're talking about these calls to action, the talking about these calls to action, the talking about these calls to action, the call to action you use that, you know, call to action you use that, you know, call to action you use that, you know, know God's purpose for your life. Well, know God's purpose for your life. Well, know God's purpose for your life. Well, if if that's the call to action, click

if if that's the call to action, click if if that's the call to action, click here to to get to know God's purpose for here to to get to know God's purpose for here to to get to know God's purpose for your life, you must be assuming that the your life, you must be assuming that the your life, you must be assuming that the people that you're trying to reach people that you're trying to reach people that you're trying to reach actually have questions about their actually have questions about their actually have questions about their life's purpose. Now, if you're doing life's purpose. Now, if you're doing life's purpose. Now, if you're doing your community exesus and the people in your community exesus and the people in your community exesus and the people in your community don't seem to have your community don't seem to have your community don't seem to have questions about the purpose of their questions about the purpose of their questions about the purpose of their life, then that call to action is life, then that call to action is life, then that call to action is probably not going to be very effective. probably not going to be very effective. probably not going to be very effective. No, not at all. You you you do need to No, not at all. You you you do need to No, not at all. You you you do need to know your demographics, so where you know your demographics, so where you know your demographics, so where you live and what they're dealing with. And live and what they're dealing with. And live and what they're dealing with. And um you can learn that there's there's um you can learn that there's there's um you can learn that there's there's platforms for you to be able to learn platforms for you to be able to learn platforms for you to be able to learn that. You don't just come up with it. that. You don't just come up with it. that. You don't just come up with it. Well, we think we want to reach I mean Well, we think we want to reach I mean Well, we think we want to reach I mean you really want to study your your you really want to study your your you really want to study your your audience and make sure you know uh we audience and make sure you know uh we audience and make sure you know uh we don't have millions of dollars to spend don't have millions of dollars to spend don't have millions of dollars to spend on research like you know companies like on research like you know companies like on research like you know companies like Doritos and those guys do. Um and so we Doritos and those guys do. Um and so we Doritos and those guys do. Um and so we have to try and use as as much as we have to try and use as as much as we have to try and use as as much as we possibly can in terms of the internet possibly can in terms of the internet possibly can in terms of the internet and and just different free resources. and and just different free resources. and and just different free resources. Uh but also looking at your own people, Uh but also looking at your own people, Uh but also looking at your own people, the people that actually attend your the people that actually attend your the people that actually attend your church because you can't really bait and church because you can't really bait and church because you can't really bait and switch stuff, right? You can't, you switch stuff, right? You can't, you switch stuff, right? You can't, you know, you can't go after a 30-year-old know, you can't go after a 30-year-old know, you can't go after a 30-year-old when when your average age is 60. Like when when your average age is 60. Like when when your average age is 60. Like it that's not going to work. So you do it that's not going to work. So you do it that's not going to work. So you do want to look at who is in the room of want to look at who is in the room of want to look at who is in the room of your of your church in certain, you your of your church in certain, you your of your church in certain, you know, in the worship service. Who comes know, in the worship service. Who comes know, in the worship service. Who comes to your church? Um start there and to your church? Um start there and to your church? Um start there and understand, okay, this these are the understand, okay, this these are the understand, okay, this these are the people we are reaching because we are people we are reaching because we are people we are reaching because we are reaching people. this is who we reach reaching people. this is who we reach reaching people. this is who we reach and these are the needs of these people and these are the needs of these people and these are the needs of these people that we're reaching. Maybe that's what that we're reaching. Maybe that's what that we're reaching. Maybe that's what you just want to carry out because you just want to carry out because you just want to carry out because you're trying to grow. And so, you know, you're trying to grow. And so, you know, you're trying to grow. And so, you know, if it isn't if you're not growing if it isn't if you're not growing if it isn't if you're not growing younger, well, that's a different

younger, well, that's a different younger, well, that's a different conversation. Maybe it's because you conversation. Maybe it's because you conversation. Maybe it's because you have an older pastor and older staff, have an older pastor and older staff, have an older pastor and older staff, you know, but you know, when you think you know, but you know, when you think you know, but you know, when you think about just advertising in in general, we about just advertising in in general, we about just advertising in in general, we we've kind of gone deep into, you know, we've kind of gone deep into, you know, we've kind of gone deep into, you know, the Super Bowl type of type of things the Super Bowl type of type of things the Super Bowl type of type of things that you should be doing. Uh, but you that you should be doing. Uh, but you that you should be doing. Uh, but you you want to take as much as you possibly you want to take as much as you possibly you want to take as much as you possibly can to study and who we're trying to can to study and who we're trying to can to study and who we're trying to reach. at least build your artwork, reach. at least build your artwork, reach. at least build your artwork, build your your text, build your video build your your text, build your video build your your text, build your video to speak to that particular audience. to speak to that particular audience. to speak to that particular audience. Build your landing page on your website. Build your landing page on your website. Build your landing page on your website. You don't just send them to your You don't just send them to your You don't just send them to your homepage. Send them to a landing page homepage. Send them to a landing page homepage. Send them to a landing page that goes deeper into what it is you're that goes deeper into what it is you're that goes deeper into what it is you're inviting them to. And again, keep keep inviting them to. And again, keep keep inviting them to. And again, keep keep carrying through with that language. carrying through with that language. carrying through with that language. Keep carrying through with those those Keep carrying through with those those Keep carrying through with those those images, those videos. You know, speak to images, those videos. You know, speak to images, those videos. You know, speak to them. Um, put some testimonials on that them. Um, put some testimonials on that them. Um, put some testimonials on that Easter landing page from younger, if Easter landing page from younger, if Easter landing page from younger, if you're trying to reach younger people, you're trying to reach younger people, you're trying to reach younger people, from young people of why they love from young people of why they love from young people of why they love coming to your church, how they've grown coming to your church, how they've grown coming to your church, how they've grown in their faith. It speaks to this the in their faith. It speaks to this the in their faith. It speaks to this the felt need that that you're trying to felt need that that you're trying to felt need that that you're trying to address. In this case, it's spiritual address. In this case, it's spiritual address. In this case, it's spiritual need. Speak to that. Yeah, we're we're need. Speak to that. Yeah, we're we're need. Speak to that. Yeah, we're we're going to get to the landing page as our going to get to the landing page as our going to get to the landing page as our next point because you brought that up a next point because you brought that up a next point because you brought that up a couple of times. So, I do want to do a couple of times. So, I do want to do a couple of times. So, I do want to do a little bit of a dive on that, but I I I little bit of a dive on that, but I I I little bit of a dive on that, but I I I want to highlight the fact that I used a want to highlight the fact that I used a want to highlight the fact that I used a $50 uh church planter term just a moment $50 uh church planter term just a moment $50 uh church planter term just a moment ago when I said community exesus. Uh, ago when I said community exesus. Uh, ago when I said community exesus. Uh, Google that if you don't know what it Google that if you don't know what it Google that if you don't know what it is, but no, it's it's it's really is, but no, it's it's it's really is, but no, it's it's it's really getting to know your community, doing getting to know your community, doing getting to know your community, doing the demographic research that you can the demographic research that you can the demographic research that you can do. There are some online tools. There do. There are some online tools. There do. There are some online tools. There are some that are free, some you can are some that are free, some you can are some that are free, some you can purchase. But I I I want you to testify purchase. But I I I want you to testify purchase. But I I I want you to testify to this. Um, we've had the opportunity to this. Um, we've had the opportunity to this. Um, we've had the opportunity over the last couple of years uh to over the last couple of years uh to over the last couple of years uh to build quite a few websites for churches build quite a few websites for churches build quite a few websites for churches and you have been really intimately

and you have been really intimately and you have been really intimately involved in the website builds of a involved in the website builds of a involved in the website builds of a number of these churches. Tell me if I'm number of these churches. Tell me if I'm number of these churches. Tell me if I'm wrong. The churches that you've worked wrong. The churches that you've worked wrong. The churches that you've worked with that have actually done their with that have actually done their with that have actually done their research, know their community, and have research, know their community, and have research, know their community, and have a very clear profile for who they're a very clear profile for who they're a very clear profile for who they're trying to reach. Their websites end up trying to reach. Their websites end up trying to reach. Their websites end up being the best websites that we build, being the best websites that we build, being the best websites that we build, aren't they? 100%. Yeah. like they know aren't they? 100%. Yeah. like they know aren't they? 100%. Yeah. like they know who their target is to to the the to the who their target is to to the the to the who their target is to to the the to the penny that that person earns, the level penny that that person earns, the level penny that that person earns, the level of education they have, the hobbies they of education they have, the hobbies they of education they have, the hobbies they uh have, the the radio station they uh have, the the radio station they uh have, the the radio station they listen to. I mean, they've drilled down listen to. I mean, they've drilled down listen to. I mean, they've drilled down on the demographics. And so when they go on the demographics. And so when they go on the demographics. And so when they go to build a website, which is essentially to build a website, which is essentially to build a website, which is essentially a marketing tool, uh those are the those a marketing tool, uh those are the those a marketing tool, uh those are the those are the best websites that we build are the best websites that we build are the best websites that we build because they're so clear on who they're because they're so clear on who they're because they're so clear on who they're communicating to. So the copy they communicating to. So the copy they communicating to. So the copy they write, the images that they choose, the write, the images that they choose, the write, the images that they choose, the navigation, um it's all it it's all navigation, um it's all it it's all navigation, um it's all it it's all intentional. So if you're listening to intentional. So if you're listening to intentional. So if you're listening to this podcast or watching on our YouTube this podcast or watching on our YouTube this podcast or watching on our YouTube channel, then you've never taken time as channel, then you've never taken time as channel, then you've never taken time as a staff team, as a leadership team to a staff team, as a leadership team to a staff team, as a leadership team to create that profile, that create that profile, that create that profile, that community-based profile for who you community-based profile for who you community-based profile for who you really want to target in your community.

really want to target in your community. really want to target in your community. It's an exercise really, really It's an exercise really, really It's an exercise really, really worthwhile, not just for marketing, but worthwhile, not just for marketing, but worthwhile, not just for marketing, but for all of your ministry initiatives. for all of your ministry initiatives. for all of your ministry initiatives. Because when you go to start new Because when you go to start new Because when you go to start new ministries or try to refine existing min ministries or try to refine existing min ministries or try to refine existing min ministries, you know that these ministries, you know that these ministries, you know that these ministries are going to be most ministries are going to be most ministries are going to be most effective if we design them in a way to effective if we design them in a way to effective if we design them in a way to connect with the person who is connect with the person who is connect with the person who is ultimately our target. So it's it's ultimately our target. So it's it's ultimately our target. So it's it's really an exercise worth this weight and really an exercise worth this weight and really an exercise worth this weight and gold. Yeah. And and and I'll coach gold. Yeah. And and and I'll coach gold. Yeah. And and and I'll coach churches to say, you know, it's the churches to say, you know, it's the churches to say, you know, it's the we're trying to anybody who's breathing, we're trying to anybody who's breathing, we're trying to anybody who's breathing, we want to know who Jesus is. Okay. we want to know who Jesus is. Okay. we want to know who Jesus is. Okay. that. So, it's not like we're alienating that. So, it's not like we're alienating that. So, it's not like we're alienating all the other age demographics if we're all the other age demographics if we're all the other age demographics if we're focused on 25 to 35 year olds. Doesn't focused on 25 to 35 year olds. Doesn't focused on 25 to 35 year olds. Doesn't mean like we don't care about the 45 and mean like we don't care about the 45 and mean like we don't care about the 45 and up. No, we absolutely do. But we're up. No, we absolutely do. But we're up. No, we absolutely do. But we're mindful in just building the website to mindful in just building the website to mindful in just building the website to speak to the 25 to 35 year old while speak to the 25 to 35 year old while speak to the 25 to 35 year old while also communicating to the 40 to 45 to 65 also communicating to the 40 to 45 to 65 also communicating to the 40 to 45 to 65 or 75 year old. Right? So, we're going or 75 year old. Right? So, we're going or 75 year old. Right? So, we're going to have images that that show everybody to have images that that show everybody to have images that that show everybody if that's true in your church, right? if that's true in your church, right? if that's true in your church, right? Yeah. So, you have to be true to the I Yeah. So, you have to be true to the I Yeah. So, you have to be true to the I always say the continuity. The always say the continuity. The always say the continuity. The continuity is really, really important.

continuity is really, really important. continuity is really, really important. The continuity from the ad you run that The continuity from the ad you run that The continuity from the ad you run that relates to the web page or website that relates to the web page or website that relates to the web page or website that relates to my experience parking in the relates to my experience parking in the relates to my experience parking in the parking lot and walking up and checking parking lot and walking up and checking parking lot and walking up and checking in my kids and walking through the the in my kids and walking through the the in my kids and walking through the the doors of the lobby, sitting in the doors of the lobby, sitting in the doors of the lobby, sitting in the worship. There's worship. There's worship. There's continuity in colors. There's continuity continuity in colors. There's continuity continuity in colors. There's continuity in words. There's continuity just in the in words. There's continuity just in the in words. There's continuity just in the spirit. And it it yeah, your website's a spirit. And it it yeah, your website's a spirit. And it it yeah, your website's a massive tool in all that because it is massive tool in all that because it is massive tool in all that because it is where people are going to ultimately where people are going to ultimately where people are going to ultimately land up, right? We we run ads to get land up, right? We we run ads to get land up, right? We we run ads to get people to the website, but people find people to the website, but people find people to the website, but people find you organically or their neighbor you organically or their neighbor you organically or their neighbor invites them or there's so many ways. invites them or there's so many ways. invites them or there's so many ways. It's a big pie chart of how people find It's a big pie chart of how people find It's a big pie chart of how people find your church. All of them go to your your church. All of them go to your your church. All of them go to your website and it's the only digital tool website and it's the only digital tool website and it's the only digital tool you actually own and you can control you actually own and you can control you actually own and you can control that messaging. Yeah. Let's talk about that messaging. Yeah. Let's talk about that messaging. Yeah. Let's talk about the landing page because we you you the landing page because we you you the landing page because we you you mentioned it a couple of times. uh what mentioned it a couple of times. uh what mentioned it a couple of times. uh what makes for an effective landing page when makes for an effective landing page when makes for an effective landing page when you're building an effective marketing you're building an effective marketing you're building an effective marketing campaign because I really think at the campaign because I really think at the campaign because I really think at the end of the day uh the ads regardless of end of the day uh the ads regardless of end of the day uh the ads regardless of how good they are if your landing page how good they are if your landing page how good they are if your landing page stinks the ad campaign will probably not stinks the ad campaign will probably not stinks the ad campaign will probably not be a terribly effective landing p won't be a terribly effective landing p won't be a terribly effective landing p won't be an effective ad campaign. So let's be an effective ad campaign. So let's be an effective ad campaign. So let's talk about what makes for an effective talk about what makes for an effective talk about what makes for an effective landing page to be a part of an landing page to be a part of an landing page to be a part of an effective marketing campaign. Well, effective marketing campaign. Well, effective marketing campaign. Well, whenever I share this with churches, I whenever I share this with churches, I whenever I share this with churches, I put at the very top, don't make me put at the very top, don't make me put at the very top, don't make me think.

think. think. Don't make me think. So, as a user, I Don't make me think. So, as a user, I Don't make me think. So, as a user, I shouldn't have to think hard about what shouldn't have to think hard about what shouldn't have to think hard about what I'm trying to learn about your event or I'm trying to learn about your event or I'm trying to learn about your event or your church, right? So, if you if you your church, right? So, if you if you your church, right? So, if you if you have that posture of don't make me have that posture of don't make me have that posture of don't make me think, then everything else kind of think, then everything else kind of think, then everything else kind of falls in place. So, obviously, if we're falls in place. So, obviously, if we're falls in place. So, obviously, if we're talking about Easter, well, the very talking about Easter, well, the very talking about Easter, well, the very first thing you want to communicate are first thing you want to communicate are first thing you want to communicate are service times and what you're actually service times and what you're actually service times and what you're actually offering. If you have an egg hunt and offering. If you have an egg hunt and offering. If you have an egg hunt and and egg the egg hunts the Sunday before, and egg the egg hunts the Sunday before, and egg the egg hunts the Sunday before, you got to communicate that. So you got to communicate that. So you got to communicate that. So obviously details about what you're obviously details about what you're obviously details about what you're doing and when you're doing it, but it doing and when you're doing it, but it doing and when you're doing it, but it can go a little bit deeper than that as can go a little bit deeper than that as can go a little bit deeper than that as well because remember if if you run an well because remember if if you run an well because remember if if you run an ad campaign and they click on that ad ad campaign and they click on that ad ad campaign and they click on that ad and they land on that landing page, that and they land on that landing page, that and they land on that landing page, that is their homepage experience. is their homepage experience. is their homepage experience. So don't don't do insider language. So don't don't do insider language. So don't don't do insider language. speak to somebody as if they're, you speak to somebody as if they're, you speak to somebody as if they're, you know, unchurched, durched, really far know, unchurched, durched, really far know, unchurched, durched, really far from God. Speak to them. And so, from God. Speak to them. And so, from God. Speak to them. And so, obviously, don't make me think is obviously, don't make me think is obviously, don't make me think is really, really important. But in that, I really, really important. But in that, I really, really important. But in that, I also want to make sure I'm communicating also want to make sure I'm communicating also want to make sure I'm communicating some really uh really good truths to some really uh really good truths to some really uh really good truths to them about what what we're wanting to them about what what we're wanting to them about what what we're wanting to say to them. God cares about you. He's say to them. God cares about you. He's say to them. God cares about you. He's got a plan for you. You know, we're got a plan for you. You know, we're got a plan for you. You know, we're we're excited. Your whole family is we're excited. Your whole family is we're excited. Your whole family is going to be impacted positively from going to be impacted positively from going to be impacted positively from coming to our church this Sunday or coming to our church this Sunday or coming to our church this Sunday or whatever that might look like. I want to whatever that might look like. I want to whatever that might look like. I want to show pictures. I want people I want to show pictures. I want people I want to show pictures. I want people I want to them to visually see themselves, you them to visually see themselves, you them to visually see themselves, you know, engage with those people that I'm know, engage with those people that I'm know, engage with those people that I'm looking at on the screen. You've said looking at on the screen. You've said looking at on the screen. You've said this before, Bart, and I use this all this before, Bart, and I use this all this before, Bart, and I use this all the time. If you're a follower of the time. If you're a follower of the time. If you're a follower of Jesus, there's something different about Jesus, there's something different about Jesus, there's something different about you. I should look at you and go, you're

you. I should look at you and go, you're you. I should look at you and go, you're different. You know, the way you different. You know, the way you different. You know, the way you communicate, the way you talk, you know, communicate, the way you talk, you know, communicate, the way you talk, you know, your posture, it looks like there like your posture, it looks like there like your posture, it looks like there like there's joy in you. You you look happy there's joy in you. You you look happy there's joy in you. You you look happy versus somebody who probably doesn't versus somebody who probably doesn't versus somebody who probably doesn't follow Jesus. May maybe, right? And so I follow Jesus. May maybe, right? And so I follow Jesus. May maybe, right? And so I want to see that in your images, want to see that in your images, want to see that in your images, especially in your videos where these especially in your videos where these especially in your videos where these people look like they're having a good people look like they're having a good people look like they're having a good time. I want to be a part of that. So time. I want to be a part of that. So time. I want to be a part of that. So you want to create a little bit of FOMO you want to create a little bit of FOMO you want to create a little bit of FOMO on our landing page. And then of course, on our landing page. And then of course, on our landing page. And then of course, you want to make sure you're, you know, you want to make sure you're, you know, you want to make sure you're, you know, don't make me think. Have have FAQs, you don't make me think. Have have FAQs, you don't make me think. Have have FAQs, you know, what do I wear? Do I have to give know, what do I wear? Do I have to give know, what do I wear? Do I have to give anything? Because the church is always anything? Because the church is always anything? Because the church is always about money, right? Uh what's in it for about money, right? Uh what's in it for about money, right? Uh what's in it for my kids? You know, where do I park? Um my kids? You know, where do I park? Um my kids? You know, where do I park? Um when should I show up? you know, maybe when should I show up? you know, maybe when should I show up? you know, maybe maybe even have a call to action that maybe even have a call to action that maybe even have a call to action that says, "Hey, we got you covered. Just says, "Hey, we got you covered. Just says, "Hey, we got you covered. Just drop your email. We won't spam you. Just drop your email. We won't spam you. Just drop your email. We won't spam you. Just give us your email. We'll send you an give us your email. We'll send you an give us your email. We'll send you an email PDF that's got all the details you email PDF that's got all the details you email PDF that's got all the details you need for your experience this coming need for your experience this coming need for your experience this coming Easter." Right now, you just collected a Easter." Right now, you just collected a Easter." Right now, you just collected a lead. Now, you be careful with that, but lead. Now, you be careful with that, but lead. Now, you be careful with that, but you collected a lead of somebody who's you collected a lead of somebody who's you collected a lead of somebody who's interested in coming to your church. So, interested in coming to your church. So, interested in coming to your church. So, that's just a couple of nuggets. I know that's just a couple of nuggets. I know that's just a couple of nuggets. I know you got more. Well, I I want to talk you got more. Well, I I want to talk you got more. Well, I I want to talk about leads in just a moment because I about leads in just a moment because I about leads in just a moment because I think leads are a very important part of think leads are a very important part of think leads are a very important part of an effective marketing campaign. I want an effective marketing campaign. I want an effective marketing campaign. I want to back up and add one little piece. You to back up and add one little piece. You to back up and add one little piece. You were talking earlier about continuity.

were talking earlier about continuity. were talking earlier about continuity. Uh, one of the things that I love to see Uh, one of the things that I love to see Uh, one of the things that I love to see churches do is when they create video churches do is when they create video churches do is when they create video ads uh to use in Google Display or ads uh to use in Google Display or ads uh to use in Google Display or YouTube or even the meta platforms is to YouTube or even the meta platforms is to YouTube or even the meta platforms is to always have a part two of that video on always have a part two of that video on always have a part two of that video on the landing page. So, you see a picture the landing page. So, you see a picture the landing page. So, you see a picture of someone who's 20 years younger than of someone who's 20 years younger than of someone who's 20 years younger than me inviting you to celebrate Easter with me inviting you to celebrate Easter with me inviting you to celebrate Easter with your family at my f in my family in my your family at my f in my family in my your family at my f in my family in my church. And then when I click the ad and church. And then when I click the ad and church. And then when I click the ad and I land on that landing page, I want to I land on that landing page, I want to I land on that landing page, I want to see that same person or that same those see that same person or that same those see that same person or that same those same people say, "We're so glad that same people say, "We're so glad that same people say, "We're so glad that you're interested in in learning more you're interested in in learning more you're interested in in learning more about our Easter services this year or about our Easter services this year or about our Easter services this year or our whatever it is." Build that our whatever it is." Build that our whatever it is." Build that continuity. Uh because it creates, you continuity. Uh because it creates, you continuity. Uh because it creates, you know, it it strengthens your brand. uh know, it it strengthens your brand. uh know, it it strengthens your brand. uh it it gives them the ability to more it it gives them the ability to more it it gives them the ability to more like they're more likely to watch that like they're more likely to watch that like they're more likely to watch that video uh because they've already seen an video uh because they've already seen an video uh because they've already seen an introduction, now they're seeing a introduction, now they're seeing a introduction, now they're seeing a second video of the same person. Uh so I second video of the same person. Uh so I second video of the same person. Uh so I I like that idea of creating that type I like that idea of creating that type I like that idea of creating that type of continuity. It's a little less it's a of continuity. It's a little less it's a of continuity. It's a little less it's a little more challenging to do so with little more challenging to do so with little more challenging to do so with static imagery. Uh but I I don't think static imagery. Uh but I I don't think static imagery. Uh but I I don't think it's a bad idea to use some of the same it's a bad idea to use some of the same it's a bad idea to use some of the same images that you've used in ads on that images that you've used in ads on that images that you've used in ads on that landing page. So, if you've got some landing page. So, if you've got some landing page. So, if you've got some images, not talking about your Easter images, not talking about your Easter images, not talking about your Easter brand or your event branding um uh brand or your event branding um uh brand or your event branding um uh graphics, but I'm talking about images.

graphics, but I'm talking about images. graphics, but I'm talking about images. If if you're doing a spring fling and If if you're doing a spring fling and If if you're doing a spring fling and you've got a petting zoo as part of the you've got a petting zoo as part of the you've got a petting zoo as part of the spring fling and you've got pictures of spring fling and you've got pictures of spring fling and you've got pictures of the the animals in the ads, then go the the animals in the ads, then go the the animals in the ads, then go ahead and use that same image on the ahead and use that same image on the ahead and use that same image on the landing page because again, it does landing page because again, it does landing page because again, it does create some continuity there. And create some continuity there. And create some continuity there. And actually, this is something that a lot actually, this is something that a lot actually, this is something that a lot of churches, they seldom do, Jason. They of churches, they seldom do, Jason. They of churches, they seldom do, Jason. They send us images and videos to use in send us images and videos to use in send us images and videos to use in their ad campaigns and then you click their ad campaigns and then you click their ad campaigns and then you click and you go and look at their landing and you go and look at their landing and you go and look at their landing page and they haven't used any of the page and they haven't used any of the page and they haven't used any of the images from the ads on the landing page. images from the ads on the landing page. images from the ads on the landing page. I'm like, you've missed an opportunity I'm like, you've missed an opportunity I'm like, you've missed an opportunity to kind of create that continuity and to kind of create that continuity and to kind of create that continuity and reinforce. It was it was that image of reinforce. It was it was that image of reinforce. It was it was that image of those animals at the petting zoo that those animals at the petting zoo that those animals at the petting zoo that got people to click to the page in the got people to click to the page in the got people to click to the page in the first place. Yeah. Reinforce reinforce first place. Yeah. Reinforce reinforce first place. Yeah. Reinforce reinforce what's there. build on that. Um, I think what's there. build on that. Um, I think what's there. build on that. Um, I think that that will make the campaign more that that will make the campaign more that that will make the campaign more effective. Let's one other one other effective. Let's one other one other effective. Let's one other one other thing though I would say in your ads, thing though I would say in your ads, thing though I would say in your ads, you know, we always we've always we've you know, we always we've always we've you know, we always we've always we've tested this, man. We've run uh millions tested this, man. We've run uh millions tested this, man. We've run uh millions millions of impressions over the years. millions of impressions over the years. millions of impressions over the years. Millions of impressions, lots of lots of Millions of impressions, lots of lots of Millions of impressions, lots of lots of clicks. Um, Easter graphics don't really clicks. Um, Easter graphics don't really clicks. Um, Easter graphics don't really work. Like, as as much as your vector work. Like, as as much as your vector work. Like, as as much as your vector artwork is super cool, people it's it's artwork is super cool, people it's it's artwork is super cool, people it's it's got to be an emotional thing. And I can got to be an emotional thing. And I can got to be an emotional thing. And I can look at like an Easter graphic and it's look at like an Easter graphic and it's look at like an Easter graphic and it's like it doesn't move me at all. But when like it doesn't move me at all. But when like it doesn't move me at all. But when I see a dad holding his son walking with I see a dad holding his son walking with I see a dad holding his son walking with his his his wife, that gets me right. I I see myself wife, that gets me right. I I see myself wife, that gets me right. I I see myself in that image. I don't see myself in in that image. I don't see myself in in that image. I don't see myself in your vector Easter graphic. Now, you your vector Easter graphic. Now, you your vector Easter graphic. Now, you want to use that on inside a church and

want to use that on inside a church and want to use that on inside a church and everything, but don't use it on your everything, but don't use it on your everything, but don't use it on your ads. It won't get near the clicks as it ads. It won't get near the clicks as it ads. It won't get near the clicks as it will if you put an a graphic of a will if you put an a graphic of a will if you put an a graphic of a picture of a of people that you're picture of a of people that you're picture of a of people that you're trying to reach. That's emotional. Just trying to reach. That's emotional. Just trying to reach. That's emotional. Just as you said, Bart, I land on the landing as you said, Bart, I land on the landing as you said, Bart, I land on the landing page. I should I should see more of page. I should I should see more of page. I should I should see more of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Uh let that. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Uh let that. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Uh let us talk about leads. Um you mentioned us talk about leads. Um you mentioned us talk about leads. Um you mentioned you mentioned one of my favorite ones, you mentioned one of my favorite ones, you mentioned one of my favorite ones, which is, you know, let us send you a which is, you know, let us send you a which is, you know, let us send you a previsit email or a previsit text to previsit email or a previsit text to previsit email or a previsit text to give you all the details that you need give you all the details that you need give you all the details that you need to make your first experience with us to make your first experience with us to make your first experience with us amazing. Whether that's on your, you amazing. Whether that's on your, you amazing. Whether that's on your, you know, your plan of visit page or your know, your plan of visit page or your know, your plan of visit page or your event page, what whatever it is that event page, what whatever it is that event page, what whatever it is that you're marketing. Love that idea of a you're marketing. Love that idea of a you're marketing. Love that idea of a lead generator. We obviously Jason, lead generator. We obviously Jason, lead generator. We obviously Jason, we've talked about this at Nauseium on we've talked about this at Nauseium on we've talked about this at Nauseium on this podcast, which is highvalue content this podcast, which is highvalue content this podcast, which is highvalue content offerings, something else on that offerings, something else on that offerings, something else on that landing page. You want to speak about landing page. You want to speak about landing page. You want to speak about that for a moment? Well, it's, you know, that for a moment? Well, it's, you know, that for a moment? Well, it's, you know, when you talk about leads, you know, when you talk about leads, you know, when you talk about leads, you know, there there's, like I said, there's an there there's, like I said, there's an there there's, like I said, there's an easy one that you can say that we're not easy one that you can say that we're not easy one that you can say that we're not gonna spam you. But, you know, you got gonna spam you. But, you know, you got gonna spam you. But, you know, you got to think also that, okay, if somebody if to think also that, okay, if somebody if to think also that, okay, if somebody if we're inviting them to Easter and uh we're inviting them to Easter and uh we're inviting them to Easter and uh they land on our landing page. Um, let's they land on our landing page. Um, let's they land on our landing page. Um, let's just assume that they maybe they don't just assume that they maybe they don't just assume that they maybe they don't go to church. Let's just assume that go to church. Let's just assume that go to church. Let's just assume that maybe they're spiritually curious. I maybe they're spiritually curious. I maybe they're spiritually curious. I know this to be true simply because in know this to be true simply because in know this to be true simply because in the last year, Bible sales in the United the last year, Bible sales in the United the last year, Bible sales in the United States are like through the roof up.

States are like through the roof up. States are like through the roof up. People are curious about faith. They're People are curious about faith. They're People are curious about faith. They're curious about God. They may not be so curious about God. They may not be so curious about God. They may not be so curious about church, but they are curious about church, but they are curious about church, but they are spiritually curious about, you know, spiritually curious about, you know, spiritually curious about, you know, what happens after I die, right? We we what happens after I die, right? We we what happens after I die, right? We we know this. So perhaps maybe on that know this. So perhaps maybe on that know this. So perhaps maybe on that landing page, there could be a cool landing page, there could be a cool landing page, there could be a cool little uh hey, download this free ebook little uh hey, download this free ebook little uh hey, download this free ebook to, you know, understand what God has to, you know, understand what God has to, you know, understand what God has for you. I I I it could be it could be for you. I I I it could be it could be for you. I I I it could be it could be three steps to understanding or it could three steps to understanding or it could three steps to understanding or it could be five ways to improve your marriage or be five ways to improve your marriage or be five ways to improve your marriage or it could be, you know, uh do these four it could be, you know, uh do these four it could be, you know, uh do these four things to really become a phenomenal things to really become a phenomenal things to really become a phenomenal parent, you know, stuff like that, parent, you know, stuff like that, parent, you know, stuff like that, right? Some kind of an ebook content right? Some kind of an ebook content right? Some kind of an ebook content that you've created and you put that on that you've created and you put that on that you've created and you put that on there and if people give you their name there and if people give you their name there and if people give you their name and their email, they can download this and their email, they can download this and their email, they can download this amazing piece of content that you amazing piece of content that you amazing piece of content that you probably preached on in the last 12 probably preached on in the last 12 probably preached on in the last 12 months. So, we could talk about how to months. So, we could talk about how to months. So, we could talk about how to use AI to pull that together and make it use AI to pull that together and make it use AI to pull that together and make it I mean, literally create an ebook today I mean, literally create an ebook today I mean, literally create an ebook today and get that onto your website. Um, what and get that onto your website. Um, what and get that onto your website. Um, what a great opportunity to kind of connect a great opportunity to kind of connect a great opportunity to kind of connect or match what they what you might be or match what they what you might be or match what they what you might be perceiving as their felt need on that perceiving as their felt need on that perceiving as their felt need on that landing page with another felt need that landing page with another felt need that landing page with another felt need that they may you can answer a question to.

they may you can answer a question to. they may you can answer a question to. Right? So, a good one would be, you Right? So, a good one would be, you Right? So, a good one would be, you know, if you have like a fall fest. Fall know, if you have like a fall fest. Fall know, if you have like a fall fest. Fall fest are for kids like, right? I we're fest are for kids like, right? I we're fest are for kids like, right? I we're having bounce houses and candy and all having bounce houses and candy and all having bounce houses and candy and all that kind of stuff. Well, on that that kind of stuff. Well, on that that kind of stuff. Well, on that landing page should be things that were landing page should be things that were landing page should be things that were would be relevant to would be relevant to would be relevant to parents for how to help raise their parents for how to help raise their parents for how to help raise their kids, whatever that might be. You make kids, whatever that might be. You make kids, whatever that might be. You make that connection. Don't don't put in that that connection. Don't don't put in that that connection. Don't don't put in that your your uh fall fest landing page your your uh fall fest landing page your your uh fall fest landing page financial peace university. I mean, I financial peace university. I mean, I financial peace university. I mean, I guess you could, but I'd probably relate guess you could, but I'd probably relate guess you could, but I'd probably relate it to what parents are dealing with and it to what parents are dealing with and it to what parents are dealing with and make that connection. You know, use FPU make that connection. You know, use FPU make that connection. You know, use FPU for some other landing page. Yeah. I for some other landing page. Yeah. I for some other landing page. Yeah. I again we've we've have we have multiple again we've we've have we have multiple again we've we've have we have multiple episodes uh on the concept of lead episodes uh on the concept of lead episodes uh on the concept of lead generation and the reason that lead generation and the reason that lead generation and the reason that lead generation is so important to me is that generation is so important to me is that generation is so important to me is that my the way that the way that I sort of my the way that the way that I sort of my the way that the way that I sort of view our responsibility as a church when view our responsibility as a church when view our responsibility as a church when it comes to outreach and evangelism is it comes to outreach and evangelism is it comes to outreach and evangelism is that all outreach and evangelism should that all outreach and evangelism should that all outreach and evangelism should lead to the beginning of new lead to the beginning of new lead to the beginning of new relationships. Yeah. We as Jesus relationships. Yeah. We as Jesus relationships. Yeah. We as Jesus followers need to start new followers need to start new followers need to start new relationships whether it's individually relationships whether it's individually relationships whether it's individually or corporately with people who don't yet or corporately with people who don't yet or corporately with people who don't yet follow Jesus. So when you think about follow Jesus. So when you think about follow Jesus. So when you think about the effectiveness of your marketing the effectiveness of your marketing the effectiveness of your marketing campaign somewhere along the way you campaign somewhere along the way you campaign somewhere along the way you have to say we're trying to start a new have to say we're trying to start a new have to say we're trying to start a new relationship. Now I like the idea of relationship. Now I like the idea of relationship. Now I like the idea of using the website as a place to start using the website as a place to start using the website as a place to start that new relationship. You may not start that new relationship. You may not start that new relationship. You may not start that new relationship until the person that new relationship until the person that new relationship until the person actually shows up on your campus at your actually shows up on your campus at your actually shows up on your campus at your location, you know, checks in, signs in, location, you know, checks in, signs in, location, you know, checks in, signs in, you know, registers for something, you

you know, registers for something, you you know, registers for something, you know, what, whatever. But think about it know, what, whatever. But think about it know, what, whatever. But think about it as starting that new relationship. Now, as starting that new relationship. Now, as starting that new relationship. Now, the last couple of minutes that we have the last couple of minutes that we have the last couple of minutes that we have here, Jason, talk a little bit about here, Jason, talk a little bit about here, Jason, talk a little bit about what we need to do with those email what we need to do with those email what we need to do with those email addresses, names, or cell phone numbers addresses, names, or cell phone numbers addresses, names, or cell phone numbers that we get them. Again, we're trying to that we get them. Again, we're trying to that we get them. Again, we're trying to figure out how we measure or create the figure out how we measure or create the figure out how we measure or create the most effective marketing campaign. What most effective marketing campaign. What most effective marketing campaign. What do we do with those names and those do we do with those names and those do we do with those names and those email addresses once we get them? Yeah. email addresses once we get them? Yeah. email addresses once we get them? Yeah. Well, real real briefly, you may not Well, real real briefly, you may not Well, real real briefly, you may not realize you're on a date, but they're realize you're on a date, but they're realize you're on a date, but they're dating you. Mhm. You don't even know dating you. Mhm. You don't even know dating you. Mhm. You don't even know their name. And because I know most their name. And because I know most their name. And because I know most people that show up to church, if you people that show up to church, if you people that show up to church, if you ask them the question, "What brought you ask them the question, "What brought you ask them the question, "What brought you here?" you'll get an answer. But if you here?" you'll get an answer. But if you here?" you'll get an answer. But if you ask the question, "How long have you ask the question, "How long have you ask the question, "How long have you been engaged with our church?" You're been engaged with our church?" You're been engaged with our church?" You're going to be blown away. it it's probably going to be blown away. it it's probably going to be blown away. it it's probably months. It could even be in the years. months. It could even be in the years. months. It could even be in the years. For years, I've been following you and I For years, I've been following you and I For years, I've been following you and I now have the confidence or trust to come now have the confidence or trust to come now have the confidence or trust to come actually in person. Yeah. Okay. So, just actually in person. Yeah. Okay. So, just actually in person. Yeah. Okay. So, just think about that and you go, "Wow, if think about that and you go, "Wow, if think about that and you go, "Wow, if that's true and somebody watches us for that's true and somebody watches us for that's true and somebody watches us for seven months or eight months, what are seven months or eight months, what are seven months or eight months, what are we communicating on our website and then we communicating on our website and then we communicating on our website and then and then if they do fill out a form, and then if they do fill out a form, and then if they do fill out a form, what are we sending them? What's that what are we sending them? What's that what are we sending them? What's that email follow-up look like?" It shouldn't email follow-up look like?" It shouldn't email follow-up look like?" It shouldn't just be get to church, get to church, just be get to church, get to church, just be get to church, get to church, get to church.

get to church. get to church. I don't I don't I think that's kind of a I don't I don't I think that's kind of a I don't I don't I think that's kind of a turnoff, especially if they're not turnoff, especially if they're not turnoff, especially if they're not interested in church, but they're interested in church, but they're interested in church, but they're interested in they're they're very interested in they're they're very interested in they're they're very interested in God. So, be careful and interested in God. So, be careful and interested in God. So, be careful and work those really really well. Now, work those really really well. Now, work those really really well. Now, obviously, we the goal is to get them obviously, we the goal is to get them obviously, we the goal is to get them into a seat. We know evangelism and into a seat. We know evangelism and into a seat. We know evangelism and relationships going to in the context is relationships going to in the context is relationships going to in the context is going to have the best effect is going going to have the best effect is going going to have the best effect is going to be sitting in the seat of of a to be sitting in the seat of of a to be sitting in the seat of of a church, right? We just kind of know church, right? We just kind of know church, right? We just kind of know that. So, that's the goal. But, I think that. So, that's the goal. But, I think that. So, that's the goal. But, I think I I'd be really I'd put together a game I I'd be really I'd put together a game I I'd be really I'd put together a game plan, you know, for Easter leads, right? plan, you know, for Easter leads, right? plan, you know, for Easter leads, right? So, what would be the next thing that So, what would be the next thing that So, what would be the next thing that you might want to communicate to them? you might want to communicate to them? you might want to communicate to them? It do not drop them into your weekly It do not drop them into your weekly It do not drop them into your weekly church email newsletter. You might as church email newsletter. You might as church email newsletter. You might as well just say, "Don't ever contact talk well just say, "Don't ever contact talk well just say, "Don't ever contact talk to us again. Don't ever do that." But to us again. Don't ever do that." But to us again. Don't ever do that." But build a strategy for what you're going build a strategy for what you're going build a strategy for what you're going to say to them the week after. Maybe a f to say to them the week after. Maybe a f to say to them the week after. Maybe a f maybe a few weeks later and then another maybe a few weeks later and then another maybe a few weeks later and then another few weeks and another few weeks. And it few weeks and another few weeks. And it few weeks and another few weeks. And it really should be speaking to them, not really should be speaking to them, not really should be speaking to them, not what we want, but what we have to offer what we want, but what we have to offer what we want, but what we have to offer you. And so that could just be content, you. And so that could just be content, you. And so that could just be content, could be a sermon snippet like your could be a sermon snippet like your could be a sermon snippet like your pastor said, something amazing. You pastor said, something amazing. You pastor said, something amazing. You know, a lot of churches after Easter know, a lot of churches after Easter know, a lot of churches after Easter will come into a a sermon series that's will come into a a sermon series that's will come into a a sermon series that's really felt need focused or something really felt need focused or something really felt need focused or something that's, you know, very uh um what I'd that's, you know, very uh um what I'd that's, you know, very uh um what I'd say, you know, community-minded. You say, you know, community-minded. You say, you know, community-minded. You know, it could just be about know, it could just be about know, it could just be about relationships or or parenting or relationships or or parenting or relationships or or parenting or something like that, right? That's not something like that, right? That's not something like that, right? That's not super heavy biblical. You speak in the super heavy biblical. You speak in the super heavy biblical. You speak in the Bible, but you know what I'm saying?

Bible, but you know what I'm saying? Bible, but you know what I'm saying? It's not like a study on the book of, It's not like a study on the book of, It's not like a study on the book of, you know, Deuteronomy or something like you know, Deuteronomy or something like you know, Deuteronomy or something like that. It's it's a it's a it's a it that. It's it's a it's a it's a it that. It's it's a it's a it's a it reaches everybody. Great. If you get reaches everybody. Great. If you get reaches everybody. Great. If you get some leads, um, share some of that some leads, um, share some of that some leads, um, share some of that content with them. Maybe don't even content with them. Maybe don't even content with them. Maybe don't even invite them to church yet, but just invite them to church yet, but just invite them to church yet, but just share some of that content with them. share some of that content with them. share some of that content with them. You're building that, like you said, You're building that, like you said, You're building that, like you said, you're building that relation. You're you're building that relation. You're you're building that relation. You're nurturing that relationship and you're nurturing that relationship and you're nurturing that relationship and you're you're you're being careful with it and you're you're being careful with it and you're you're being careful with it and you're protecting it with a goal in mind you're protecting it with a goal in mind you're protecting it with a goal in mind to get them o ultimately in a seat where to get them o ultimately in a seat where to get them o ultimately in a seat where they can hear the gospel and and get they can hear the gospel and and get they can hear the gospel and and get their life changed. Yeah. You use the their life changed. Yeah. You use the their life changed. Yeah. You use the word there, nurture, and that's exactly word there, nurture, and that's exactly word there, nurture, and that's exactly what we would call the follow-up would what we would call the follow-up would what we would call the follow-up would be a nurture campaign. So maybe it's be a nurture campaign. So maybe it's be a nurture campaign. So maybe it's three touch points or six or 12, three touch points or six or 12, three touch points or six or 12, whatever you want to to to put together. whatever you want to to to put together. whatever you want to to to put together. Uh we call that a nurture campaign. And Uh we call that a nurture campaign. And Uh we call that a nurture campaign. And what you're trying to do is nurture the what you're trying to do is nurture the what you're trying to do is nurture the relationship, build the trust, uh, and relationship, build the trust, uh, and relationship, build the trust, uh, and hopefully, Lord willing, uh, those hopefully, Lord willing, uh, those hopefully, Lord willing, uh, those people will eventually trust you enough, people will eventually trust you enough, people will eventually trust you enough, uh, to walk through your doors on a uh, to walk through your doors on a uh, to walk through your doors on a Sunday morning. But here's here's what I Sunday morning. But here's here's what I Sunday morning. But here's here's what I I I'll challenge you to consider. When I I'll challenge you to consider. When I I'll challenge you to consider. When you're building that nurture email you're building that nurture email you're building that nurture email campaign, um, creating the content, make campaign, um, creating the content, make campaign, um, creating the content, make it a win for them. It's not about you.

it a win for them. It's not about you. it a win for them. It's not about you. It's not about what you want from them. It's not about what you want from them. It's not about what you want from them. It's what you want for them. It's what It's what you want for them. It's what It's what you want for them. It's what God wants for them, right? So make it a God wants for them, right? So make it a God wants for them, right? So make it a win for them. Create that content to win for them. Create that content to win for them. Create that content to speak to them to their needs. They once speak to them to their needs. They once speak to them to their needs. They once they know that you really get them, that they know that you really get them, that they know that you really get them, that you're addressing real needs, that you you're addressing real needs, that you you're addressing real needs, that you have answers to their questions, there's have answers to their questions, there's have answers to their questions, there's a much higher probability uh that they a much higher probability uh that they a much higher probability uh that they will eventually check you out in person. will eventually check you out in person. will eventually check you out in person. And that's the ultimate goal. Um we're And that's the ultimate goal. Um we're And that's the ultimate goal. Um we're out of time, man. Uh this has been a out of time, man. Uh this has been a out of time, man. Uh this has been a blast. I told you before we started that blast. I told you before we started that blast. I told you before we started that we could probably talk about this for we could probably talk about this for we could probably talk about this for hours, but uh we're going to try to hours, but uh we're going to try to hours, but uh we're going to try to limit this to a half hour. So, thanks limit this to a half hour. So, thanks limit this to a half hour. So, thanks Jason for hanging out with me today. For Jason for hanging out with me today. For Jason for hanging out with me today. For those of you who have made it all the those of you who have made it all the those of you who have made it all the way to the end of this episode, thanks way to the end of this episode, thanks way to the end of this episode, thanks for hanging out with us. Uh, it has been for hanging out with us. Uh, it has been for hanging out with us. Uh, it has been a while. We're committed to uh getting a while. We're committed to uh getting a while. We're committed to uh getting back in the saddle and doing more of back in the saddle and doing more of back in the saddle and doing more of these podcast episodes here uh in the these podcast episodes here uh in the these podcast episodes here uh in the upcoming week. So, if you haven't yet upcoming week. So, if you haven't yet upcoming week. So, if you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen to your subscribed wherever you listen to your subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, make sure that you do favorite podcast, make sure that you do favorite podcast, make sure that you do that. And if you're watching on our that. And if you're watching on our that. And if you're watching on our YouTube channel, make sure you're YouTube channel, make sure you're YouTube channel, make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel and subscribed to our YouTube channel and subscribed to our YouTube channel and give us a little like on the YouTube give us a little like on the YouTube give us a little like on the YouTube channel so more people can find this channel so more people can find this channel so more people can find this content. Thanks again. Have a good day.