What the Church Can Learn About Digital From Big Box Retailers | Nathan Artt

i think the thing we're learning the i think the thing we're learning the most about digital is that it in itself most about digital is that it in itself most about digital is that it in itself is not the strategy um it is a tool that is not the strategy um it is a tool that is not the strategy um it is a tool that drives strategy and what mike todd and drives strategy and what mike todd and drives strategy and what mike todd and transformation is able to do through transformation is able to do through transformation is able to do through their platform is really tailored their platform is really tailored their platform is really tailored towards the strength of the organization towards the strength of the organization towards the strength of the organization versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase oaks who oaks who oaks who is also using digital but to accomplish is also using digital but to accomplish is also using digital but to accomplish something that's more core to who they something that's more core to who they something that's more core to who they are so i think the answer lies in you are so i think the answer lies in you are so i think the answer lies in you know what is unique about your know what is unique about your know what is unique about your organization and how you're organization and how you're organization and how you're introducing people to the gospel in your introducing people to the gospel in your introducing people to the gospel in your community community community hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined as always podcast i'm bart blair joined as always podcast i'm bart blair joined as always by the ceo of missional marketing jason by the ceo of missional marketing jason by the ceo of missional marketing jason hamrock and our goal is to help your hamrock and our goal is to help your hamrock and our goal is to help your church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications that's what we're all about admissional that's what we're all about admissional that's what we're all about admissional marketing we want to help you as a marketing we want to help you as a marketing we want to help you as a church leverage the digital tools at church leverage the digital tools at church leverage the digital tools at your disposal to reach more people your disposal to reach more people your disposal to reach more people online and jason and i recently had the online and jason and i recently had the online and jason and i recently had the opportunity to sit down and have a opportunity to sit down and have a opportunity to sit down and have a conversation about this very topic conversation about this very topic conversation about this very topic reaching people online with nathan art reaching people online with nathan art reaching people online with nathan art from ministry solutions from ministry solutions from ministry solutions i tell you this is an exciting podcast i tell you this is an exciting podcast i tell you this is an exciting podcast because hey church your goal and your because hey church your goal and your because hey church your goal and your objective is to connect with people objective is to connect with people objective is to connect with people right and help introduce them to jesus right and help introduce them to jesus right and help introduce them to jesus nathan is your guy you're going to want nathan is your guy you're going to want nathan is your guy you're going to want to listen to this podcast because he he to listen to this podcast because he he to listen to this podcast because he he he is the target audience of who you're he is the target audience of who you're he is the target audience of who you're looking for looking for looking for absolutely it's a great conversation he absolutely it's a great conversation he absolutely it's a great conversation he has a great personal story of faith and has a great personal story of faith and has a great personal story of faith and you're really you're really you're really really going to appreciate uh some of really going to appreciate uh some of really going to appreciate uh some of the insight that he shares with us uh we the insight that he shares with us uh we the insight that he shares with us uh we appreciate you tuning in to the podcast appreciate you tuning in to the podcast appreciate you tuning in to the podcast we know that you have choices about the we know that you have choices about the we know that you have choices about the way that you spend your time and the

way that you spend your time and the way that you spend your time and the fact that uh you decide to uh let jason fact that uh you decide to uh let jason fact that uh you decide to uh let jason and me invade your earbuds or your car and me invade your earbuds or your car and me invade your earbuds or your car or wherever you're listening to this we or wherever you're listening to this we or wherever you're listening to this we do appreciate it make sure that if you do appreciate it make sure that if you do appreciate it make sure that if you haven't subscribed on what whatever haven't subscribed on what whatever haven't subscribed on what whatever medium you listen to this or watch this medium you listen to this or watch this medium you listen to this or watch this on that you subscribe and if you would on that you subscribe and if you would on that you subscribe and if you would be so kind as to leave us a rating or be so kind as to leave us a rating or be so kind as to leave us a rating or review and comment we'd really review and comment we'd really review and comment we'd really appreciate that as well and appreciate that as well and appreciate that as well and there with all of that being said here's there with all of that being said here's there with all of that being said here's our recent interview with nathan art our recent interview with nathan art our recent interview with nathan art from ministry solutions from ministry solutions from ministry solutions nathan art thanks for joining jason and nathan art thanks for joining jason and nathan art thanks for joining jason and me we want to welcome you to the podcast me we want to welcome you to the podcast me we want to welcome you to the podcast today today today yeah thank you guys i'm looking forward yeah thank you guys i'm looking forward yeah thank you guys i'm looking forward to being on to being on to being on hey so uh we just met today uh we have hey so uh we just met today uh we have hey so uh we just met today uh we have already had a half hour conversation already had a half hour conversation already had a half hour conversation about some really really awesome stuff about some really really awesome stuff about some really really awesome stuff um and some of that i'm sure a lot of it um and some of that i'm sure a lot of it um and some of that i'm sure a lot of it is going to come up into this recording is going to come up into this recording is going to come up into this recording into the conversation that we're having into the conversation that we're having into the conversation that we're having now uh but before we get into the meat now uh but before we get into the meat now uh but before we get into the meat and the the heart of what we want to and the the heart of what we want to and the the heart of what we want to chat about today why don't you share chat about today why don't you share chat about today why don't you share with our audience a little bit about with our audience a little bit about with our audience a little bit about your story um your faith story your your story um your faith story your your story um your faith story your journey into ministry and a little bit journey into ministry and a little bit journey into ministry and a little bit about what you do today about what you do today about what you do today yeah sure so uh just a very long story yeah sure so uh just a very long story yeah sure so uh just a very long story short of course uh short of course uh short of course uh commercial real estate development commercial real estate development commercial real estate development private equity but more importantly i private equity but more importantly i private equity but more importantly i was the guy that absolutely swore um i was the guy that absolutely swore um i was the guy that absolutely swore um i would never go to church set foot inside would never go to church set foot inside would never go to church set foot inside of a church i was way too smart for that of a church i was way too smart for that of a church i was way too smart for that at least i thought at least i thought at least i thought but i just was not a church person uh but i just was not a church person uh but i just was not a church person uh but ironically uh my mentor who was a but ironically uh my mentor who was a but ironically uh my mentor who was a jesus or is a jesus follower gave me a jesus or is a jesus follower gave me a jesus or is a jesus follower gave me a uh a dvd series from andy stanley um

uh a dvd series from andy stanley um uh a dvd series from andy stanley um that i found fascinating uh he did not that i found fascinating uh he did not that i found fascinating uh he did not ask me for money and he did not seem uh ask me for money and he did not seem uh ask me for money and he did not seem uh too crazy too crazy too crazy but it was very engaging and so from but it was very engaging and so from but it was very engaging and so from that i'm like all right this is cool that i'm like all right this is cool that i'm like all right this is cool and then the next step was i met some and then the next step was i met some and then the next step was i met some guys from buckhead church and actually guys from buckhead church and actually guys from buckhead church and actually joined a small group i didn't realize joined a small group i didn't realize joined a small group i didn't realize that was a technical term at the time that was a technical term at the time that was a technical term at the time um but became a christian um but became a christian um but became a christian um actually before i ever stepped foot um actually before i ever stepped foot um actually before i ever stepped foot inside of a church and that's why i just inside of a church and that's why i just inside of a church and that's why i just i love this conversation um and then two i love this conversation um and then two i love this conversation um and then two or three years into that journey i was or three years into that journey i was or three years into that journey i was trying to figure out uh what life would trying to figure out uh what life would trying to figure out uh what life would look like with this faith and i was look like with this faith and i was look like with this faith and i was fortunate to get um connected to someone fortunate to get um connected to someone fortunate to get um connected to someone at north point through a small group at north point through a small group at north point through a small group who asked me he was over the strategic who asked me he was over the strategic who asked me he was over the strategic partner team and he said man you know we partner team and he said man you know we partner team and he said man you know we have all these churches around the have all these churches around the have all these churches around the country making real estate and finance country making real estate and finance country making real estate and finance decisions would you mind just taking a decisions would you mind just taking a decisions would you mind just taking a look under the hood and uh letting us look under the hood and uh letting us look under the hood and uh letting us know what you think and know what you think and know what you think and i was exposed to the world of church i was exposed to the world of church i was exposed to the world of church real estate and church finance which was real estate and church finance which was real estate and church finance which was very different uh from the world that i very different uh from the world that i very different uh from the world that i came from came from came from um um um and just yeah just started working with and just yeah just started working with and just yeah just started working with churches helping them better understand churches helping them better understand churches helping them better understand how to create financial models and how to create financial models and how to create financial models and multi-site models that actually drive multi-site models that actually drive multi-site models that actually drive real estate decisions versus the other real estate decisions versus the other real estate decisions versus the other way around way around way around so so so nine years later we've funded and nine years later we've funded and nine years later we've funded and managed about a billion dollars worth of managed about a billion dollars worth of managed about a billion dollars worth of those projects and um but a couple years those projects and um but a couple years those projects and um but a couple years ago was really fortunate um worked with ago was really fortunate um worked with ago was really fortunate um worked with a lot of awesome executive pastors a lot of awesome executive pastors a lot of awesome executive pastors and and just another long story short and and just another long story short and and just another long story short was asked to put together an event for was asked to put together an event for was asked to put together an event for xp's and that event filled up and it xp's and that event filled up and it xp's and that event filled up and it attracted some amazing business leaders attracted some amazing business leaders attracted some amazing business leaders and uh here we are uh two years later uh and uh here we are uh two years later uh and uh here we are uh two years later uh hosting events and leader groups around

hosting events and leader groups around hosting events and leader groups around the country uh hope you know connecting the country uh hope you know connecting the country uh hope you know connecting uh leaders to each other uh leaders to each other uh leaders to each other and to the best thought leaders that we and to the best thought leaders that we and to the best thought leaders that we can find in ministry and business and so can find in ministry and business and so can find in ministry and business and so those are the those are the things i do those are the those are the things i do those are the those are the things i do oh wow okay so okay so the last couple oh wow okay so okay so the last couple oh wow okay so okay so the last couple years years years it's turned everything upside down it's turned everything upside down it's turned everything upside down but even before that uh we were talking but even before that uh we were talking but even before that uh we were talking about about about e-commerce online i mean the difference e-commerce online i mean the difference e-commerce online i mean the difference between a physical and an online between a physical and an online between a physical and an online experience with with retail and but talk experience with with retail and but talk experience with with retail and but talk to me about where's the church headed to me about where's the church headed to me about where's the church headed in this space uh what in this space uh what in this space uh what you talked a lot of churches what do you you talked a lot of churches what do you you talked a lot of churches what do you think is going to happen think is going to happen think is going to happen well i think i think there's a lot of well i think i think there's a lot of well i think i think there's a lot of conversation i'm i'm excited because we conversation i'm i'm excited because we conversation i'm i'm excited because we get to just see and be a part of get to just see and be a part of get to just see and be a part of conversations and you know the first conversations and you know the first conversations and you know the first thing i would say is this i think the thing i would say is this i think the thing i would say is this i think the thing we're learning the most about thing we're learning the most about thing we're learning the most about digital is that it in itself is not the digital is that it in itself is not the digital is that it in itself is not the strategy um it is a tool that drives strategy um it is a tool that drives strategy um it is a tool that drives strategy and what mike todd and strategy and what mike todd and strategy and what mike todd and transformation is able to do through transformation is able to do through transformation is able to do through their platform is really tailored their platform is really tailored their platform is really tailored towards the strength of the organization towards the strength of the organization towards the strength of the organization versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase versus a 12 stone or an lcbc or chase oaks who oaks who oaks who is also using digital but to accomplish is also using digital but to accomplish is also using digital but to accomplish something that's more core to who they something that's more core to who they something that's more core to who they are so i think the answer lies in you are so i think the answer lies in you are so i think the answer lies in you know what is unique about your know what is unique about your know what is unique about your organization and how you're organization and how you're organization and how you're introducing people to the gospel in your introducing people to the gospel in your introducing people to the gospel in your community um but but that that that community um but but that that that community um but but that that that comment though comment though comment though um you know i i became a christian in um you know i i became a christian in um you know i i became a christian in the church who says hey we want to be a the church who says hey we want to be a the church who says hey we want to be a church church church that unchurched people that unchurched people that unchurched people want to attend want to attend want to attend and i think how we define those last two and i think how we define those last two and i think how we define those last two words to attend words to attend words to attend will have everything to do with what how

will have everything to do with what how will have everything to do with what how successful we are in reaching people in successful we are in reaching people in successful we are in reaching people in the next five to ten years yeah what the next five to ten years yeah what the next five to ten years yeah what does that mean to attend what does that does that mean to attend what does that does that mean to attend what does that mean to engage with us do we say we want mean to engage with us do we say we want mean to engage with us do we say we want you to you to you to belong before you believe as long as you belong before you believe as long as you belong before you believe as long as you come to our building to do it come to our building to do it come to our building to do it and what i'm seeing is that this and what i'm seeing is that this and what i'm seeing is that this invitation very similar to what happened invitation very similar to what happened invitation very similar to what happened with the gutenberg press very similar to with the gutenberg press very similar to with the gutenberg press very similar to what happened with acts 2 and the what happened with acts 2 and the what happened with acts 2 and the original church is we are seeing the original church is we are seeing the original church is we are seeing the gospel moving outside of buildings and gospel moving outside of buildings and gospel moving outside of buildings and amongst this movement of people um being amongst this movement of people um being amongst this movement of people um being activated by the holy spirit and it's activated by the holy spirit and it's activated by the holy spirit and it's it's a beautiful thing to watch it's it's a beautiful thing to watch it's it's a beautiful thing to watch it's watching the church also get comfortable watching the church also get comfortable watching the church also get comfortable with separating why we exist with how we with separating why we exist with how we with separating why we exist with how we exist which has been somewhat the same exist which has been somewhat the same exist which has been somewhat the same is that going to church on sunday is is that going to church on sunday is is that going to church on sunday is being a christian and we're seeing that being a christian and we're seeing that being a christian and we're seeing that being decoupled at the moment being decoupled at the moment being decoupled at the moment you know you said something earlier you know you said something earlier you know you said something earlier before we hit the record button and it before we hit the record button and it before we hit the record button and it was uh was uh was uh around the idea that around the idea that around the idea that when you invite your neighbor to church when you invite your neighbor to church when you invite your neighbor to church um it's not necessarily you're invited um it's not necessarily you're invited um it's not necessarily you're invited into church into church into church you've you've you've listened to what's going on and you can listened to what's going on and you can listened to what's going on and you can invite them to something that's relevant invite them to something that's relevant invite them to something that's relevant to what they're looking for to what they're looking for to what they're looking for and making those connections and you and making those connections and you and making those connections and you know what we do at mission marketing a know what we do at mission marketing a know what we do at mission marketing a lot is trying to make that match if lot is trying to make that match if lot is trying to make that match if you're searching for something in google you're searching for something in google you're searching for something in google specific we want to give you something specific we want to give you something specific we want to give you something specific that answers that question specific that answers that question specific that answers that question right and so when you think about right and so when you think about right and so when you think about uh how retail has like you mentioned uh how retail has like you mentioned uh how retail has like you mentioned earlier if you search for something earlier if you search for something earlier if you search for something everybody knows this right we're not everybody knows this right we're not everybody knows this right we're not saying anything that people don't know saying anything that people don't know saying anything that people don't know you search for something online you search for something online you search for something online on amazon you're gonna start seeing a on amazon you're gonna start seeing a on amazon you're gonna start seeing a whole lot of things that relate to what

whole lot of things that relate to what whole lot of things that relate to what you searched for you searched for you searched for how does the how can the church how does the how can the church how does the how can the church learn from that and and learn from that and and learn from that and and react to it and get better at engaging react to it and get better at engaging react to it and get better at engaging with people what's what's your thoughts with people what's what's your thoughts with people what's what's your thoughts on that on that on that well we i thought we had 30 minutes but well we i thought we had 30 minutes but well we i thought we had 30 minutes but um here here's the here's the thing i would here here's the here's the thing i would ask for you the the tension that i would ask for you the the tension that i would ask for you the the tension that i would encourage you to struggle with is the encourage you to struggle with is the encourage you to struggle with is the difference between relevance and difference between relevance and difference between relevance and convenience convenience convenience convenience is taking it something and convenience is taking it something and convenience is taking it something and making it more accessible relevance is making it more accessible relevance is making it more accessible relevance is creating an experience that someone is creating an experience that someone is creating an experience that someone is able to get what they're looking for at able to get what they're looking for at able to get what they're looking for at the time they need it most the time they need it most the time they need it most that's the difference between that's the difference between that's the difference between convenience and relevance and that is convenience and relevance and that is convenience and relevance and that is what target and home depot and other what target and home depot and other what target and home depot and other retailers who by the way went through retailers who by the way went through retailers who by the way went through the same shift the same shift the same shift that we are going through now why are that we are going through now why are that we are going through now why are our stores empty our stores empty our stores empty what are we going to do about it where what are we going to do about it where what are we going to do about it where are our customers and those retailers i are our customers and those retailers i are our customers and those retailers i mean i mentioned to you six years ago mean i mentioned to you six years ago mean i mentioned to you six years ago target was was classified as a target was was classified as a target was was classified as a distressed stock distressed stock distressed stock they were looking at the threat of they were looking at the threat of they were looking at the threat of closing hundreds of stores across the closing hundreds of stores across the closing hundreds of stores across the country yet six years later they're the country yet six years later they're the country yet six years later they're the fifth largest retailer in the united fifth largest retailer in the united fifth largest retailer in the united states and they're opening 500 stores states and they're opening 500 stores states and they're opening 500 stores right and and the difference was right and and the difference was right and and the difference was we could use the digital platform to we could use the digital platform to we could use the digital platform to create convenience but that doesn't make create convenience but that doesn't make create convenience but that doesn't make us relevant so how do we create us relevant so how do we create us relevant so how do we create relevance relevance relevance and um to to that point the the and um to to that point the the and um to to that point the the invitation invitation invitation is um when we had a chance to interview is um when we had a chance to interview is um when we had a chance to interview the ceo of home depot on this and he the ceo of home depot on this and he the ceo of home depot on this and he made this comparison when we first

made this comparison when we first made this comparison when we first started out our version of digital was started out our version of digital was started out our version of digital was to take the sunday morning circular to take the sunday morning circular to take the sunday morning circular and to put it online and to put it online and to put it online right so think about the circular if you right so think about the circular if you right so think about the circular if you remember those you know the company remember those you know the company remember those you know the company tries to figure out what it is you might tries to figure out what it is you might tries to figure out what it is you might be looking for so i'm going to show you be looking for so i'm going to show you be looking for so i'm going to show you here's our refrigerators here's our refrigerators here's our refrigerators here's our sod here's our tools and you here's our sod here's our tools and you here's our sod here's our tools and you open that and you go dang it i was open that and you go dang it i was open that and you go dang it i was looking for chainsaws right looking for chainsaws right looking for chainsaws right so that's not a digital experience so that's not a digital experience so that's not a digital experience that's taking a physical experience and that's taking a physical experience and that's taking a physical experience and putting it online and that is what the putting it online and that is what the putting it online and that is what the reaction has mostly been for the church reaction has mostly been for the church reaction has mostly been for the church but a digital experience is different a but a digital experience is different a but a digital experience is different a digital experience is based on relevance digital experience is based on relevance digital experience is based on relevance and it's helping you as the customer and it's helping you as the customer and it's helping you as the customer find what you're looking for when you find what you're looking for when you find what you're looking for when you need it most and so if i'm inviting my need it most and so if i'm inviting my need it most and so if i'm inviting my neighbor so this is this is a true story neighbor so this is this is a true story neighbor so this is this is a true story i live in a very post-churched area of i live in a very post-churched area of i live in a very post-churched area of atlanta atlanta atlanta and there is a lesbian couple across the and there is a lesbian couple across the and there is a lesbian couple across the street there's a dude down the street street there's a dude down the street street there's a dude down the street i've had a lot of conversations with i've had a lot of conversations with i've had a lot of conversations with about mental health and anxiety about mental health and anxiety about mental health and anxiety there's an atheist a guy that loves to there's an atheist a guy that loves to there's an atheist a guy that loves to have conversations about this stuff um have conversations about this stuff um have conversations about this stuff um you know and i'm constantly in dialogue you know and i'm constantly in dialogue you know and i'm constantly in dialogue and let me tell you why i would never and let me tell you why i would never and let me tell you why i would never invite any of those people to a church invite any of those people to a church invite any of those people to a church building is because if i did all at once building is because if i did all at once building is because if i did all at once what are the actual chances that the what are the actual chances that the what are the actual chances that the content that we deliver to them that day content that we deliver to them that day content that we deliver to them that day or the experience that we deliver to or the experience that we deliver to or the experience that we deliver to them that day has any relevance to them that day has any relevance to them that day has any relevance to anything that they care about anything that they care about anything that they care about it's no different it's no different it's no different than the online circular than the online circular than the online circular right so instead i'm not inviting them right so instead i'm not inviting them right so instead i'm not inviting them into a church building i'm saying hey i into a church building i'm saying hey i into a church building i'm saying hey i really enjoyed the conversation i had really enjoyed the conversation i had really enjoyed the conversation i had with you and hey here's a series um from with you and hey here's a series um from with you and hey here's a series um from annie stanley on tough questions around

annie stanley on tough questions around annie stanley on tough questions around faith or here's a conversation that mike faith or here's a conversation that mike faith or here's a conversation that mike todd just had with natalie about how he todd just had with natalie about how he todd just had with natalie about how he and his wife are having to deal with and his wife are having to deal with and his wife are having to deal with quarantine and being locked in a house quarantine and being locked in a house quarantine and being locked in a house together with all their kids and how together with all their kids and how together with all their kids and how difficult that must be for you guy who's difficult that must be for you guy who's difficult that must be for you guy who's dealing with anxiety right but it's dealing with anxiety right but it's dealing with anxiety right but it's about delivering something that's about delivering something that's about delivering something that's relevant to them not hoping that the relevant to them not hoping that the relevant to them not hoping that the experience will overshadow the lack of experience will overshadow the lack of experience will overshadow the lack of relevance relevance relevance wow well data doesn't you know i always wow well data doesn't you know i always wow well data doesn't you know i always i always point to data every time we get i always point to data every time we get i always point to data every time we get on a call with one of our churches that on a call with one of our churches that on a call with one of our churches that we get to to partner with we get to to partner with we get to to partner with the data doesn't lie the data doesn't lie the data doesn't lie you know and you sit there and you talk you know and you sit there and you talk you know and you sit there and you talk about all this all this traffic that got about all this all this traffic that got about all this all this traffic that got to their website to their website to their website only to find their bounce rate really only to find their bounce rate really only to find their bounce rate really high and engagement really low and high and engagement really low and high and engagement really low and they're going why is that jason they're going why is that jason they're going why is that jason it's relevant it's what they're what it's relevant it's what they're what it's relevant it's what they're what they're looking for what they googled they're looking for what they googled they're looking for what they googled and they landed on your website because and they landed on your website because and they landed on your website because you're advertising on it but you're you're advertising on it but you're you're advertising on it but you're pointing them to your homepage instead pointing them to your homepage instead pointing them to your homepage instead of pointing them to a page that actually of pointing them to a page that actually of pointing them to a page that actually connects the dots for them it gives them connects the dots for them it gives them connects the dots for them it gives them content for them to absorb and learn content for them to absorb and learn content for them to absorb and learn from and now you're building some from and now you're building some from and now you're building some relationships relationships relationships that is what the model at target and that is what the model at target and that is what the model at target and home depot are doing right it's it's a home depot are doing right it's it's a home depot are doing right it's it's a product in a sense it's just a different product in a sense it's just a different product in a sense it's just a different kind of product kind of product kind of product well and we call this the death of the well and we call this the death of the well and we call this the death of the funnel okay so here here's a here's funnel okay so here here's a here's funnel okay so here here's a here's another big thought why is attendance so another big thought why is attendance so another big thought why is attendance so important to us in in my opinion it's important to us in in my opinion it's important to us in in my opinion it's because for years and years and years because for years and years and years because for years and years and years attendance has been a attendance has been a attendance has been a predictive analytic if i you you tell predictive analytic if i you you tell predictive analytic if i you you tell elite pastor how many people in the room elite pastor how many people in the room elite pastor how many people in the room we can figure out giving serving and we can figure out giving serving and we can figure out giving serving and groups we can figure out our

groups we can figure out our groups we can figure out our assimilation process because attendance assimilation process because attendance assimilation process because attendance drives engagement we're finding drives engagement we're finding drives engagement we're finding ourselves in a different model now where ourselves in a different model now where ourselves in a different model now where engagement is actually driving engagement is actually driving engagement is actually driving attendance and attendance has become the attendance and attendance has become the attendance and attendance has become the lagging indicator not the leading lagging indicator not the leading lagging indicator not the leading indicator and that is indicator and that is indicator and that is very big thought for us to to begin to very big thought for us to to begin to very big thought for us to to begin to process because everything's based on process because everything's based on process because everything's based on attendance for that attendance for that attendance for that for that very reason and one of the big for that very reason and one of the big for that very reason and one of the big thoughts one of the big big thoughts in thoughts one of the big big thoughts in thoughts one of the big big thoughts in target uh uh very openly uh talked about target uh uh very openly uh talked about target uh uh very openly uh talked about this and it's something i i hope the this and it's something i i hope the this and it's something i i hope the listeners can struggle through and this listeners can struggle through and this listeners can struggle through and this tension tension tension they said in order for us to be relevant they said in order for us to be relevant they said in order for us to be relevant to our customers to our customers to our customers we have to stop caring we have to stop caring we have to stop caring when and where they purchase when and where they purchase when and where they purchase meaning meaning meaning the goal is not to introduce you to a the goal is not to introduce you to a the goal is not to introduce you to a digital experience to get you to click digital experience to get you to click digital experience to get you to click on this button to get you to come over on this button to get you to come over on this button to get you to come over here to ultimately get you into a here to ultimately get you into a here to ultimately get you into a building building building and stay with me on this because this and stay with me on this because this and stay with me on this because this the second part of this is insane the second part of this is insane the second part of this is insane the goal is just to maintain relevance the goal is just to maintain relevance the goal is just to maintain relevance with you and provide options to you that with you and provide options to you that with you and provide options to you that no matter where you are and what you're no matter where you are and what you're no matter where you are and what you're doing and how you're experiencing it doing and how you're experiencing it doing and how you're experiencing it that we are a trusted brand that can that we are a trusted brand that can that we are a trusted brand that can deliver that to you whether that's deliver that to you whether that's deliver that to you whether that's through shipt whether that's overnight through shipt whether that's overnight through shipt whether that's overnight delivery or whether that's a convenient delivery or whether that's a convenient delivery or whether that's a convenient shopping experience in the store it's shopping experience in the store it's shopping experience in the store it's about relevance but we in order to do about relevance but we in order to do about relevance but we in order to do that in order to truly do that we that in order to truly do that we that in order to truly do that we internally have to stop caring about internally have to stop caring about internally have to stop caring about when and where our customers purchase when and where our customers purchase when and where our customers purchase what what is interesting about that what what is interesting about that what what is interesting about that comment it's like wow does that mean comment it's like wow does that mean comment it's like wow does that mean that we're just going to be a digital that we're just going to be a digital that we're just going to be a digital church and we're going to sell all of church and we're going to sell all of church and we're going to sell all of our buildings and we're all going to

our buildings and we're all going to our buildings and we're all going to move away and just go to house church move away and just go to house church move away and just go to house church no no no actually the data suggests the opposite actually the data suggests the opposite actually the data suggests the opposite happens um happens um happens um there are four uh there are four uh there are four uh the top 10 online retailers in the the top 10 online retailers in the the top 10 online retailers in the united states there are four that also united states there are four that also united states there are four that also have a physical presence have a physical presence have a physical presence so target was mentioned home depot was so target was mentioned home depot was so target was mentioned home depot was mentioned walmart uh who's been a huge mentioned walmart uh who's been a huge mentioned walmart uh who's been a huge shift to this model i mean ironically shift to this model i mean ironically shift to this model i mean ironically macy's which is so weird yeah but um macy's which is so weird yeah but um macy's which is so weird yeah but um what's really interesting with those what's really interesting with those what's really interesting with those four four four is um is um is um that all four of them that all four of them that all four of them are in the top ten online retailers in are in the top ten online retailers in are in the top ten online retailers in the in the country but not one of them the in the country but not one of them the in the country but not one of them not a single one of them sees more than not a single one of them sees more than not a single one of them sees more than 10 percent of their revenue online and what happens and what happens what happens is what happens is what happens is when you think of an integrated when you think of an integrated when you think of an integrated experience versus a hybrid or campus experience versus a hybrid or campus experience versus a hybrid or campus model model model when you really think that digital is when you really think that digital is when you really think that digital is not just a second expression or a not just a second expression or a not just a second expression or a separate expression then it's an separate expression then it's an separate expression then it's an integrated part of our organizational integrated part of our organizational integrated part of our organizational strategy strategy strategy what you'll find is as people develop what you'll find is as people develop what you'll find is as people develop brand trust with you through the digital brand trust with you through the digital brand trust with you through the digital platform they immediately desire a platform they immediately desire a platform they immediately desire a tactile experience tactile experience tactile experience in every one of those cases the journey in every one of those cases the journey in every one of those cases the journey started digitally and ended being an started digitally and ended being an started digitally and ended being an in-person customer and i'm actually one in-person customer and i'm actually one in-person customer and i'm actually one of those people um ironically with of those people um ironically with of those people um ironically with target like i was never a big target target like i was never a big target target like i was never a big target shopper some you know i never understood shopper some you know i never understood shopper some you know i never understood paying more for a red cart you know and paying more for a red cart you know and paying more for a red cart you know and um um um you know but but but i get it now i get you know but but but i get it now i get you know but but but i get it now i get it now i have two kids so i get it and it now i have two kids so i get it and it now i have two kids so i get it and that's the thing that we have to grapple that's the thing that we have to grapple that's the thing that we have to grapple with is we have to be we have to be okay with is we have to be we have to be okay with is we have to be we have to be okay with people not ultimately ending up with people not ultimately ending up with people not ultimately ending up where we want them to end up and asking

where we want them to end up and asking where we want them to end up and asking more questions about where they want to more questions about where they want to more questions about where they want to end up yeah i i can imagine that would end up yeah i i can imagine that would end up yeah i i can imagine that would be pretty scary for league pastors and be pretty scary for league pastors and be pretty scary for league pastors and xp's who xp's who xp's who you know they just don't they that's you know they just don't they that's you know they just don't they that's just the model the model has changed now just the model the model has changed now just the model the model has changed now i think it's changed i think it's changed i think it's changed not just because of covid that was a not just because of covid that was a not just because of covid that was a massive like thrust to push us in this massive like thrust to push us in this massive like thrust to push us in this direction but it's just been like this direction but it's just been like this direction but it's just been like this over the last 10 years with this digital over the last 10 years with this digital over the last 10 years with this digital shift right well jason let me ask you shift right well jason let me ask you shift right well jason let me ask you this do you feel like cover changed this do you feel like cover changed this do you feel like cover changed anything or accelerated it's accelerated anything or accelerated it's accelerated anything or accelerated it's accelerated it that's all in my opinion that's all it that's all in my opinion that's all it that's all in my opinion that's all it did yeah i agree with you i agree it did yeah i agree with you i agree it did yeah i agree with you i agree with you 100 this was already happening with you 100 this was already happening with you 100 this was already happening it just it just happened a lot faster uncomfortably faster maybe that was uncomfortably faster maybe that was god's plan all along you know maybe it god's plan all along you know maybe it god's plan all along you know maybe it was hi bart blair here i'm the producer was hi bart blair here i'm the producer was hi bart blair here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth of missional marketing's church growth of missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church communications professional do you know communications professional do you know communications professional do you know how google sees your church website how google sees your church website how google sees your church website in other words if people in your in other words if people in your in other words if people in your community were to google churches near community were to google churches near community were to google churches near me or best church in my city or good me or best church in my city or good me or best church in my city or good church nearby do you know where your church nearby do you know where your church nearby do you know where your church website would show up in those church website would show up in those church website would show up in those search results at the top maybe or search results at the top maybe or search results at the top maybe or somewhere in the middle or somewhere on somewhere in the middle or somewhere on somewhere in the middle or somewhere on page four you know there's a common page four you know there's a common page four you know there's a common misunderstanding that if we simply build misunderstanding that if we simply build misunderstanding that if we simply build a great website and we launch it that a great website and we launch it that a great website and we launch it that google will somehow work its magic and google will somehow work its magic and google will somehow work its magic and people will find us online but there's a people will find us online but there's a people will find us online but there's a bit more art and science to making sure bit more art and science to making sure bit more art and science to making sure that your church website shows up in the that your church website shows up in the that your church website shows up in the top of those search results and that top of those search results and that top of those search results and that science is called local seo or local

science is called local seo or local science is called local seo or local search engine optimization in additional search engine optimization in additional search engine optimization in additional marketing local seo is one of the core marketing local seo is one of the core marketing local seo is one of the core services that we provide for churches services that we provide for churches services that we provide for churches all across the united states and canada all across the united states and canada all across the united states and canada we'd love to help you we'd love to help you we'd love to help you if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page that says church seo you can request a that says church seo you can request a that says church seo you can request a free local seo report to see how your free local seo report to see how your free local seo report to see how your church is showing up in google these church is showing up in google these church is showing up in google these days and you can schedule an appointment days and you can schedule an appointment days and you can schedule an appointment to talk with jason or with me or with to talk with jason or with me or with to talk with jason or with me or with one of our other digital strategists to one of our other digital strategists to one of our other digital strategists to help you decide whether or not a local help you decide whether or not a local help you decide whether or not a local seo boost is right for your church hey seo boost is right for your church hey seo boost is right for your church hey again we appreciate you tuning in to our again we appreciate you tuning in to our again we appreciate you tuning in to our podcast and we look forward to the podcast and we look forward to the podcast and we look forward to the opportunity to serving you in your opportunity to serving you in your opportunity to serving you in your church and reaching more people for church and reaching more people for church and reaching more people for jesus now back to the show jesus now back to the show jesus now back to the show nathan nathan you you said something a nathan nathan you you said something a nathan nathan you you said something a minute ago that i minute ago that i minute ago that i i can't i can't leave it i need to i i can't i can't leave it i need to i i can't i can't leave it i need to i need to kind of camp on it for a minute need to kind of camp on it for a minute need to kind of camp on it for a minute and that's the way that you define the and that's the way that you define the and that's the way that you define the word relevance is very different than i word relevance is very different than i word relevance is very different than i think the way think the way think the way our our our north american church has defined north american church has defined north american church has defined relevance for the last 20 25 years 30 relevance for the last 20 25 years 30 relevance for the last 20 25 years 30 years maybe now years maybe now years maybe now and and and let me try to restate what you said let me try to restate what you said let me try to restate what you said relevance is taking relevance is taking relevance is taking something that's important to someone something that's important to someone something that's important to someone and delivering it to them in a time or and delivering it to them in a time or and delivering it to them in a time or in a manner in a manner in a manner in which it's convenient and helpful for in which it's convenient and helpful for in which it's convenient and helpful for them right i mean that's i'm kind of them right i mean that's i'm kind of them right i mean that's i'm kind of summarizing what you said there um summarizing what you said there um summarizing what you said there um you know the the if if i'm home depot you know the the if if i'm home depot you know the the if if i'm home depot and i sell and i sell and i sell hammers

hammers hammers but i only sell the hammer but i only sell the hammer but i only sell the hammer on this particular day on this particular day on this particular day at this particular time at this particular time at this particular time that i'm not really relevant to people that i'm not really relevant to people that i'm not really relevant to people who are looking for hammers because i've who are looking for hammers because i've who are looking for hammers because i've made this product only available made this product only available made this product only available available in this little window of time available in this little window of time available in this little window of time and when we look at and when we look at and when we look at the way that the church tends to the way that the church tends to the way that the church tends to function my goodness my phone's going function my goodness my phone's going function my goodness my phone's going like crazy sorry i should have turned it like crazy sorry i should have turned it like crazy sorry i should have turned it off off off um um um when when when when when when we when the church the when when when we when the church the when when when we when the church the church would argue a lot of churches i church would argue a lot of churches i church would argue a lot of churches i think would argue this but think would argue this but think would argue this but no matter how much ministry activity we no matter how much ministry activity we no matter how much ministry activity we do no matter how much we're trying to do no matter how much we're trying to do no matter how much we're trying to build ministry around ways that we can build ministry around ways that we can build ministry around ways that we can engage people in our community engage people in our community engage people in our community we still build everything we still build everything we still build everything around a 60-minute service 70-minute around a 60-minute service 70-minute around a 60-minute service 70-minute service on sunday and most of that service on sunday and most of that service on sunday and most of that is around a 30-40 minute sermon that's is around a 30-40 minute sermon that's is around a 30-40 minute sermon that's delivered on sunday like delivered on sunday like delivered on sunday like by and large this this was one of the by and large this this was one of the by and large this this was one of the when churches had to pivot in 2020 to go when churches had to pivot in 2020 to go when churches had to pivot in 2020 to go online online online the one thing that everyone was most the one thing that everyone was most the one thing that everyone was most concerned with is how can i preach to concerned with is how can i preach to concerned with is how can i preach to people people people via video via video via video into their living rooms so they can into their living rooms so they can into their living rooms so they can watch the service that's the piece that watch the service that's the piece that watch the service that's the piece that we felt we had to replace which just we felt we had to replace which just we felt we had to replace which just reaffirms that we still consider that 30 reaffirms that we still consider that 30 reaffirms that we still consider that 30 to 40 minutes of preaching on sunday a to 40 minutes of preaching on sunday a to 40 minutes of preaching on sunday a significant pillar to what we do significant pillar to what we do significant pillar to what we do but we only deliver that but we only deliver that but we only deliver that for 30 minutes 40 minutes on a sunday on for 30 minutes 40 minutes on a sunday on for 30 minutes 40 minutes on a sunday on a specific day at a specific time

a specific day at a specific time a specific day at a specific time unless unless unless we are taking that and then repurposing we are taking that and then repurposing we are taking that and then repurposing it and redistributing it through digital it and redistributing it through digital it and redistributing it through digital means like the dvd set for the andy means like the dvd set for the andy means like the dvd set for the andy stanley series that you got or youtube stanley series that you got or youtube stanley series that you got or youtube or our website or what have you and or our website or what have you and or our website or what have you and one of the challenges that i'm having one of the challenges that i'm having one of the challenges that i'm having with church is not a challenge i'm with church is not a challenge i'm with church is not a challenge i'm having with churches but one thing i'm having with churches but one thing i'm having with churches but one thing i'm challenging churches to think through is challenging churches to think through is challenging churches to think through is when you're planning your next sermon when you're planning your next sermon when you're planning your next sermon series series series instead of just thinking about it as instead of just thinking about it as instead of just thinking about it as being these four weeks in january or being these four weeks in january or being these four weeks in january or four weeks in february that we're going four weeks in february that we're going four weeks in february that we're going to teach on this particular topic and to teach on this particular topic and to teach on this particular topic and put all of your eggs into the basket of put all of your eggs into the basket of put all of your eggs into the basket of how can i get people into the room to how can i get people into the room to how can i get people into the room to hear this for these four weeks hear this for these four weeks hear this for these four weeks think about how you can preach and think about how you can preach and think about how you can preach and develop content that lives on in develop content that lives on in develop content that lives on in perpetuity through digital means going perpetuity through digital means going perpetuity through digital means going forward because if i preach testable forward because if i preach testable forward because if i preach testable format yeah yeah i i've got one church format yeah yeah i i've got one church format yeah yeah i i've got one church in particular i'm thinking about last in particular i'm thinking about last in particular i'm thinking about last year year year preached a series preached a series preached a series on on on having a strong faith during times of having a strong faith during times of having a strong faith during times of stress and anxiety stress and anxiety stress and anxiety one of the most watched youtube videos one of the most watched youtube videos one of the most watched youtube videos that they have on their entire youtube that they have on their entire youtube that they have on their entire youtube channel channel channel and it was preached in july of last year and it was preached in july of last year and it was preached in july of last year and for the church and for the church and for the church it was a moment in the past that's it was a moment in the past that's it was a moment in the past that's already gone they've preached 26 or 28 already gone they've preached 26 or 28 already gone they've preached 26 or 28 sermons since then and they're not even sermons since then and they're not even sermons since then and they're not even thinking about it at all but i'm like thinking about it at all but i'm like thinking about it at all but i'm like yeah but the people that you're trying yeah but the people that you're trying yeah but the people that you're trying to reach are still finding that video to reach are still finding that video to reach are still finding that video online online online and they're still connecting with the and they're still connecting with the and they're still connecting with the church digitally because they're still church digitally because they're still church digitally because they're still finding that content that's 20 now 26 finding that content that's 20 now 26 finding that content that's 20 now 26 weeks old or 126 weeks old so i i just i

weeks old or 126 weeks old so i i just i weeks old or 126 weeks old so i i just i love what you're saying there about the love what you're saying there about the love what you're saying there about the the timeliness the timeliness the timeliness and its relevance to relevance and its relevance to relevance and its relevance to relevance that was a weird thing to say but the that was a weird thing to say but the that was a weird thing to say but the relevance of timeliness as it relates to relevance of timeliness as it relates to relevance of timeliness as it relates to relevance relevance relevance yeah i understand we can and we can even yeah i understand we can and we can even yeah i understand we can and we can even unpack that a little bit more because i unpack that a little bit more because i unpack that a little bit more because i think think think so so uh we had a chance i said to so so uh we had a chance i said to so so uh we had a chance i said to interview frank blake and he said you interview frank blake and he said you interview frank blake and he said you know the most foundational element of a know the most foundational element of a know the most foundational element of a digital strategy is your search bar digital strategy is your search bar digital strategy is your search bar um you know and that's a deep um you know and that's a deep um you know and that's a deep conversation yeah but the point of it is conversation yeah but the point of it is conversation yeah but the point of it is is getting to know people and what is getting to know people and what is getting to know people and what they're looking for and making they're looking for and making they're looking for and making you know so much about the church by the you know so much about the church by the you know so much about the church by the way the reason that model is so big way the reason that model is so big way the reason that model is so big about getting people into a building all about getting people into a building all about getting people into a building all stuff is because it worked it worked it stuff is because it worked it worked it stuff is because it worked it worked it did had its season just like target what did had its season just like target what did had its season just like target what having 140 000 square foot stores that having 140 000 square foot stores that having 140 000 square foot stores that day was that was a real day that day was that was a real day that day was that was a real day that happened and it worked we're just not in happened and it worked we're just not in happened and it worked we're just not in that time anymore um that time anymore um that time anymore um so so that's why we stick to it it's so so that's why we stick to it it's so so that's why we stick to it it's what we know and it worked and we wanted what we know and it worked and we wanted what we know and it worked and we wanted to work again unfortunately um sears and to work again unfortunately um sears and to work again unfortunately um sears and jcpenney are a great example of what jcpenney are a great example of what jcpenney are a great example of what happens when we hold on too tight to happens when we hold on too tight to happens when we hold on too tight to those old models right um those old models right um those old models right um but to you to your point but to you to your point but to you to your point um even so even in that right so search um even so even in that right so search um even so even in that right so search bar if we just pick the five to ten bar if we just pick the five to ten bar if we just pick the five to ten things that are going on right now things that are going on right now things that are going on right now divorce rates dealing with marriages in divorce rates dealing with marriages in divorce rates dealing with marriages in ways that we've never had to before ways that we've never had to before ways that we've never had to before dealing with anxiety uh depression dealing with anxiety uh depression dealing with anxiety uh depression um um um if we were to put things in place that if we were to put things in place that if we were to put things in place that helped inform us what people were helped inform us what people were helped inform us what people were looking for when they came to us right looking for when they came to us right looking for when they came to us right it would help develop content not only it would help develop content not only it would help develop content not only just to send out um but also create next just to send out um but also create next just to send out um but also create next steps so you just mentioned a youtube

steps so you just mentioned a youtube steps so you just mentioned a youtube video or click through to the home page video or click through to the home page video or click through to the home page if we have that many people watching if we have that many people watching if we have that many people watching this video what are we doing with that this video what are we doing with that this video what are we doing with that how are we creating next steps how are we creating next steps how are we creating next steps for them how how are we leading them for them how how are we leading them for them how how are we leading them into community into community into community right if we have that many people right if we have that many people right if we have that many people watching the video what's the invitation watching the video what's the invitation watching the video what's the invitation of the invitation is well you can come of the invitation is well you can come of the invitation is well you can come to our building at night at 9am on to our building at night at 9am on to our building at night at 9am on sunday sunday sunday okay okay okay how how does that help me if i'm an hour how how does that help me if i'm an hour how how does that help me if i'm an hour away and i don't know you right away and i don't know you right away and i don't know you right um um um there's so many things that we could be there's so many things that we could be there's so many things that we could be doing with the information that you just doing with the information that you just doing with the information that you just mentioned and learning about our mentioned and learning about our mentioned and learning about our customers and taking that learning to customers and taking that learning to customers and taking that learning to provide offerings that engage people in provide offerings that engage people in provide offerings that engage people in here and here's the crazy thing so many here and here's the crazy thing so many here and here's the crazy thing so many people are threatened people are threatened people are threatened uh by the digital platform because of uh by the digital platform because of uh by the digital platform because of the fear of what it will do to in-person the fear of what it will do to in-person the fear of what it will do to in-person attendance in the and again the reality attendance in the and again the reality attendance in the and again the reality is is that all of the data suggests the is is that all of the data suggests the is is that all of the data suggests the exact opposite exact opposite exact opposite the more you focus on digital engagement the more you focus on digital engagement the more you focus on digital engagement and creating great digital experiences and creating great digital experiences and creating great digital experiences the more people want to experience you the more people want to experience you the more people want to experience you in person in person in person so you you you have the years of lead so you you you have the years of lead so you you you have the years of lead and xp's right so you're saying this to and xp's right so you're saying this to and xp's right so you're saying this to them are they freaking out or are they them are they freaking out or are they them are they freaking out or are they responding if so what churches are responding if so what churches are responding if so what churches are responding well to that message responding well to that message responding well to that message oh you know man honestly i've been um oh you know man honestly i've been um oh you know man honestly i've been um well there's a lot of lead pastors well there's a lot of lead pastors well there's a lot of lead pastors retiring right now retiring right now retiring right now and that's not um that's not a knock on and that's not um that's not a knock on and that's not um that's not a knock on them i've said uh to a lot of people i i them i've said uh to a lot of people i i them i've said uh to a lot of people i i couldn't imagine being a lead pastor the couldn't imagine being a lead pastor the couldn't imagine being a lead pastor the last two years and what they've had to last two years and what they've had to last two years and what they've had to deal with deal with deal with um the and beyond the model changing and um the and beyond the model changing and um the and beyond the model changing and beyond code i mean it's just been a beyond code i mean it's just been a beyond code i mean it's just been a tough time um no there's a lot of

tough time um no there's a lot of tough time um no there's a lot of receptivity i think it's scary for receptivity i think it's scary for receptivity i think it's scary for everybody um everybody um everybody um the thing um the thing i just i'm the thing um the thing i just i'm the thing um the thing i just i'm encouraging all leading executive encouraging all leading executive encouraging all leading executive pastors is this is that um you know pastors is this is that um you know pastors is this is that um you know god's promise uh he we have certainty in god's promise uh he we have certainty in god's promise uh he we have certainty in his promise yeah his promise yeah his promise yeah he just never gave us certainty in his he just never gave us certainty in his he just never gave us certainty in his process process process right and we're in the middle of this right and we're in the middle of this right and we're in the middle of this very disruptive process and i think he's very disruptive process and i think he's very disruptive process and i think he's bringing us back closer to him back to bringing us back closer to him back to bringing us back closer to him back to the roots of evangelism um crossroads uh the roots of evangelism um crossroads uh the roots of evangelism um crossroads uh just did a study uh showing that there just did a study uh showing that there just did a study uh showing that there are 73 million people in america who are 73 million people in america who are 73 million people in america who would would would uh be open to engaging with christian uh be open to engaging with christian uh be open to engaging with christian people and christian content they people and christian content they people and christian content they avoided the word church for a reason um avoided the word church for a reason um avoided the word church for a reason um but with 73 million people who would do but with 73 million people who would do but with 73 million people who would do both of those things but but not be both of those things but but not be both of those things but but not be willing to go to a church building willing to go to a church building willing to go to a church building and um there's a big blue ocean out and um there's a big blue ocean out and um there's a big blue ocean out there and i think that there are guys there and i think that there are guys there and i think that there are guys who are looking at that going man i who are looking at that going man i who are looking at that going man i don't know i don't have the answers i don't know i don't have the answers i don't know i don't have the answers i don't know how i'm going to do that but don't know how i'm going to do that but don't know how i'm going to do that but boy i want to be a part of what god's boy i want to be a part of what god's boy i want to be a part of what god's doing in his church right now let's doing in his church right now let's doing in his church right now let's figure it out figure it out figure it out um and then there's um and then there's um and then there's and then there's the hey let's wait till and then there's the hey let's wait till and then there's the hey let's wait till things get back to normal and um you things get back to normal and um you things get back to normal and um you know unfortunately um that normal does know unfortunately um that normal does know unfortunately um that normal does not exist anymore it's right not exist anymore it's right not exist anymore it's right this we're no longer in covet season this we're no longer in covet season this we're no longer in covet season this is our new reality this is where we this is our new reality this is where we this is our new reality this is where we live this is our world and uh we've got live this is our world and uh we've got live this is our world and uh we've got to adjust to it right to adjust to it right to adjust to it right yeah and i i i feel like every so yeah and i i i feel like every so yeah and i i i feel like every so there's thousands and thousands and there's thousands and thousands and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of churches in america right thousands of churches in america right thousands of churches in america right some most of them are really small you some most of them are really small you some most of them are really small you know the know the know the we have a partnership with the friends we have a partnership with the friends we have a partnership with the friends of the 95 network they they minister to of the 95 network they they minister to of the 95 network they they minister to the 95 of churches that are like

the 95 of churches that are like the 95 of churches that are like itty-bitty then you always you got itty-bitty then you always you got itty-bitty then you always you got bigger bigger churches bigger bigger churches bigger bigger churches and yet we we all are on the same team and yet we we all are on the same team and yet we we all are on the same team we're all trying to lead people to jesus we're all trying to lead people to jesus we're all trying to lead people to jesus and you look at that and go how do they and you look at that and go how do they and you look at that and go how do they adopt this strategy because you talk adopt this strategy because you talk adopt this strategy because you talk about target well it's it's once it's about target well it's it's once it's about target well it's it's once it's one company one company one company multiple locus so they can reproduce multiple locus so they can reproduce multiple locus so they can reproduce themselves so it's it's a it's a themselves so it's it's a it's a themselves so it's it's a it's a momentum can get when they're doing it momentum can get when they're doing it momentum can get when they're doing it right momentum can gain it's like with right momentum can gain it's like with right momentum can gain it's like with churches we uh churches we uh churches we uh sometimes this drives me nuts churches sometimes this drives me nuts churches sometimes this drives me nuts churches look at each other and go that's the look at each other and go that's the look at each other and go that's the competition drives me nuts competition drives me nuts competition drives me nuts and they have to stop thinking that way and they have to stop thinking that way and they have to stop thinking that way and start and start collectively coming and start and start collectively coming and start and start collectively coming together and figuring out how are we together and figuring out how are we together and figuring out how are we going to going to going to bring this this country this world to to bring this this country this world to to bring this this country this world to to jesus right i have a big comment because jesus right i have a big comment because jesus right i have a big comment because we are called to collaboration not to we are called to collaboration not to we are called to collaboration not to competition i'll tell you that somebody competition i'll tell you that somebody competition i'll tell you that somebody asked me recently what was the biggest asked me recently what was the biggest asked me recently what was the biggest lesson you learned from frank blake lesson you learned from frank blake lesson you learned from frank blake it was this it was this it was this because this drives him nuts and and he because this drives him nuts and and he because this drives him nuts and and he now keep in mind this is the guy who's now keep in mind this is the guy who's now keep in mind this is the guy who's the ceo and chairman of home depot the ceo and chairman of home depot the ceo and chairman of home depot delta chairman of delta chairman of delta chairman of delta chairman of delta chairman of delta chairman of procter and gamble and chairman of procter and gamble and chairman of procter and gamble and chairman of macy's amongst other things he's a he's macy's amongst other things he's a he's macy's amongst other things he's a he's a slightly brilliant man okay a slightly brilliant man okay a slightly brilliant man okay and um but the thing he said he goes and um but the thing he said he goes and um but the thing he said he goes nathan you you would never believe nathan you you would never believe nathan you you would never believe you would not believe me if i told you you would not believe me if i told you you would not believe me if i told you who was in my living room during my home who was in my living room during my home who was in my living room during my home depot days and he said the problem depot days and he said the problem depot days and he said the problem wasn't lows wasn't lows wasn't lows the problem was that the the problem was that the the problem was that the um um um the home improvement sector represented the home improvement sector represented the home improvement sector represented such a small portion of american such a small portion of american such a small portion of american consumers consumers consumers and the goal is not to take more

and the goal is not to take more and the goal is not to take more business away from the lows in fact we business away from the lows in fact we business away from the lows in fact we want them to be successful because we want them to be successful because we want them to be successful because we want to compete over more customers and want to compete over more customers and want to compete over more customers and so the so the goal was to get the so the so the goal was to get the so the so the goal was to get the industry to grow and i could not do that industry to grow and i could not do that industry to grow and i could not do that alone as home depot i had to work with alone as home depot i had to work with alone as home depot i had to work with my competitors to make that happen and my competitors to make that happen and my competitors to make that happen and i'll never forget that lesson as long as i'll never forget that lesson as long as i'll never forget that lesson as long as i live because we look at america and we i live because we look at america and we i live because we look at america and we look at the depleting population of look at the depleting population of look at the depleting population of christians and our lack of influence and christians and our lack of influence and christians and our lack of influence and we've become so much more known for what we've become so much more known for what we've become so much more known for what we're against than what we're for we're against than what we're for we're against than what we're for and uh this idea of competing in a and uh this idea of competing in a and uh this idea of competing in a losing game is just stupid um we've got losing game is just stupid um we've got losing game is just stupid um we've got to pull together we've got to to pull together we've got to to pull together we've got to collaborate we are on the same team and collaborate we are on the same team and collaborate we are on the same team and if we work together um we'll actually if we work together um we'll actually if we work together um we'll actually see god move in this country in ways see god move in this country in ways see god move in this country in ways that will you know i believe i believe that will you know i believe i believe that will you know i believe i believe this in all my heart i've been saying this in all my heart i've been saying this in all my heart i've been saying this for two years this for two years this for two years i believe that this is the greatest i believe that this is the greatest i believe that this is the greatest evangelistic opportunity that we will evangelistic opportunity that we will evangelistic opportunity that we will see in our lifetime you have a see in our lifetime you have a see in our lifetime you have a increasing level of hopelessness increasing level of hopelessness increasing level of hopelessness with a changing model that delivers the with a changing model that delivers the with a changing model that delivers the greatest message of hope in the history greatest message of hope in the history greatest message of hope in the history of the world and if we look at that of the world and if we look at that of the world and if we look at that opportunity together it's scary to think opportunity together it's scary to think opportunity together it's scary to think of what we could do of what we could do of what we could do wow wow wow you know it's it's funny so i live in you know it's it's funny so i live in you know it's it's funny so i live in the phoenix area and my son you know we the phoenix area and my son you know we the phoenix area and my son you know we so in phoenix there's like pockets of of so in phoenix there's like pockets of of so in phoenix there's like pockets of of land and they're all car dealerships land and they're all car dealerships land and they're all car dealerships there's like eight or ten of them and my there's like eight or ten of them and my there's like eight or ten of them and my younger son goes why would they do that younger son goes why would they do that younger son goes why would they do that dad aren't they competing against each dad aren't they competing against each dad aren't they competing against each other other other i said well son the reason why they do i said well son the reason why they do i said well son the reason why they do that is they want all the people who are that is they want all the people who are that is they want all the people who are wanting to buy cars wanting to buy cars wanting to buy cars on their property then they can compete on their property then they can compete on their property then they can compete against each other with the best price against each other with the best price against each other with the best price but they want to get all those people to but they want to get all those people to but they want to get all those people to that location

that location that location so they're driving around and he's like so they're driving around and he's like so they're driving around and he's like interesting and i i interesting and i i interesting and i i immediately went to the church world immediately went to the church world immediately went to the church world i'll go you know get this church here i'll go you know get this church here i'll go you know get this church here and there's a church over there and a and there's a church over there and a and there's a church over there and a church down the street and they never church down the street and they never church down the street and they never talk to each other talk to each other talk to each other what a shame in a sense right because what a shame in a sense right because what a shame in a sense right because it's like we could be partnering it's like we could be partnering it's like we could be partnering together just like take a lesson from together just like take a lesson from together just like take a lesson from what's going on what's going on what's going on and what you just said there and what you just said there and what you just said there about that experience with with home about that experience with with home about that experience with with home depot and lowe's yes it's it you you depot and lowe's yes it's it you you depot and lowe's yes it's it you you want more people in that space because want more people in that space because want more people in that space because now you now they're thinking about you now you now they're thinking about you now you now they're thinking about you 100 100 100 100 100 100 um but i and i think too i will say this um but i and i think too i will say this um but i and i think too i will say this uh you know through covet i have seen uh you know through covet i have seen uh you know through covet i have seen the level of collaboration increase the level of collaboration increase the level of collaboration increase incredibly we're uh like one of the incredibly we're uh like one of the incredibly we're uh like one of the things we do we do a lot of leader things we do we do a lot of leader things we do we do a lot of leader groups we do a lot of events i think a groups we do a lot of events i think a groups we do a lot of events i think a couple years ago those people would not couple years ago those people would not couple years ago those people would not always show up to to learn and network always show up to to learn and network always show up to to learn and network with other people and we're seeing with other people and we're seeing with other people and we're seeing we're seeing a lot of that right now and we're seeing a lot of that right now and we're seeing a lot of that right now and i'm grateful for that because it's not i'm grateful for that because it's not i'm grateful for that because it's not always been that way and um always been that way and um always been that way and um but we're not going to do this alone uh but we're not going to do this alone uh but we're not going to do this alone uh each individual church is not going to each individual church is not going to each individual church is not going to find the answer we find the answer we find the answer we we are called to the big c church we are called to the big c church we are called to the big c church there's one name not a pastor's name there's one name not a pastor's name there's one name not a pastor's name there's one name that's worth being there's one name that's worth being there's one name that's worth being famous it can carry the burden of that famous it can carry the burden of that famous it can carry the burden of that and his name is jesus and his name is jesus and his name is jesus and uh i think i think this next phase i and uh i think i think this next phase i and uh i think i think this next phase i hope one of the identifying hope one of the identifying hope one of the identifying characteristics of the church is our characteristics of the church is our characteristics of the church is our ability to collaborate ability to collaborate ability to collaborate around um that idea um around um that idea um around um that idea um so so so so a lot of uh the people that listen to so a lot of uh the people that listen to so a lot of uh the people that listen to this podcast are usually mostly church this podcast are usually mostly church this podcast are usually mostly church communications people they their staff communications people they their staff communications people they their staff members in the church members in the church members in the church at some level they're overseeing

at some level they're overseeing at some level they're overseeing communications or in communications uh communications or in communications uh communications or in communications uh and some exps and some lead pastors that and some exps and some lead pastors that and some exps and some lead pastors that that tune in what would you uh what that tune in what would you uh what that tune in what would you uh what would be your would be your would be your advice to them or what's you know what's advice to them or what's you know what's advice to them or what's you know what's a thought that pops in your head that a thought that pops in your head that a thought that pops in your head that you'd want to share with them you'd want to share with them you'd want to share with them yeah fall forward right now i mean here yeah fall forward right now i mean here yeah fall forward right now i mean here here's the well two i would say two here's the well two i would say two here's the well two i would say two things i would say don't look at this as things i would say don't look at this as things i would say don't look at this as a program to add a program to add a program to add i i think this is a great time to sit i i think this is a great time to sit i i think this is a great time to sit back and be like lord hey um there's a back and be like lord hey um there's a back and be like lord hey um there's a really cool story really cool story really cool story that's been significant for me about that's been significant for me about that's been significant for me about joshua when he was called into joshua when he was called into joshua when he was called into leadership and everyone remembers the leadership and everyone remembers the leadership and everyone remembers the the bumper sticker verse to be strong the bumper sticker verse to be strong the bumper sticker verse to be strong and courageous but in that same passage and courageous but in that same passage and courageous but in that same passage god god god tells him to be obedient and what's tells him to be obedient and what's tells him to be obedient and what's ironic is his first challenge of courage ironic is his first challenge of courage ironic is his first challenge of courage is actually obedience um joshua lay down is actually obedience um joshua lay down is actually obedience um joshua lay down everything you know lay down everything everything you know lay down everything everything you know lay down everything you know your armies and and the the you know your armies and and the the you know your armies and and the the military and your weapons and you know military and your weapons and you know military and your weapons and you know me you tell me to be courageous i'm like me you tell me to be courageous i'm like me you tell me to be courageous i'm like hold my beard i'm taking the wall right hold my beard i'm taking the wall right hold my beard i'm taking the wall right um um um but joshua courage was actually but joshua courage was actually but joshua courage was actually obedience it was trusting the unknown it obedience it was trusting the unknown it obedience it was trusting the unknown it was trusting god in the unknown that's was trusting god in the unknown that's was trusting god in the unknown that's what takes real courage and so that's what takes real courage and so that's what takes real courage and so that's what i would invite you guys to like but what i would invite you guys to like but what i would invite you guys to like but a life of significance really does start a life of significance really does start a life of significance really does start with that choice of obedience like it's with that choice of obedience like it's with that choice of obedience like it's not about who i am what i know and what not about who i am what i know and what not about who i am what i know and what i can do it's god it's about you it's i can do it's god it's about you it's i can do it's god it's about you it's about what you're up to and how i can be about what you're up to and how i can be about what you're up to and how i can be a part of it and as long as that's your a part of it and as long as that's your a part of it and as long as that's your posture you'll figure it all out um so posture you'll figure it all out um so posture you'll figure it all out um so that's my first i would say is just lean that's my first i would say is just lean that's my first i would say is just lean in man with your teams you don't no one in man with your teams you don't no one in man with your teams you don't no one i want you to feel the i want you to feel the i want you to feel the um um um i want you to feel the joy of your

i want you to feel the joy of your i want you to feel the joy of your calling without the burden of the calling without the burden of the calling without the burden of the results you're not in the results results you're not in the results results you're not in the results business uh there's only one that can do business uh there's only one that can do business uh there's only one that can do that okay so um but but here's the other that okay so um but but here's the other that okay so um but but here's the other thing too you know thing too you know thing too you know in order to become a hall of fame hitter in order to become a hall of fame hitter in order to become a hall of fame hitter you only got to hit one out of three you only got to hit one out of three you only got to hit one out of three um you know steph curry still misses um you know steph curry still misses um you know steph curry still misses more threes than he that he makes more threes than he that he makes more threes than he that he makes we have this idea that we have to have we have this idea that we have to have we have this idea that we have to have it all figured out in order to move it all figured out in order to move it all figured out in order to move forward and get it right and just get forward and get it right and just get forward and get it right and just get rid of that idea i would say be really rid of that idea i would say be really rid of that idea i would say be really successful right now in successful right now in successful right now in jim collins calls it shooting musket jim collins calls it shooting musket jim collins calls it shooting musket balls before cannonballs right get get balls before cannonballs right get get balls before cannonballs right get get ranged in try things see if they work ranged in try things see if they work ranged in try things see if they work learn from them and adapt um getting learn from them and adapt um getting learn from them and adapt um getting from where we are to where we want to be from where we are to where we want to be from where we are to where we want to be is going to be a little bit of a journey is going to be a little bit of a journey is going to be a little bit of a journey and just i hope you accept that but and just i hope you accept that but and just i hope you accept that but um be open to that change um be open to that change um be open to that change be open to the idea that you don't have be open to the idea that you don't have be open to the idea that you don't have to have all the answers right now and um to have all the answers right now and um to have all the answers right now and um and continue to learn um but i think and continue to learn um but i think and continue to learn um but i think that starts with the willingness to say that starts with the willingness to say that starts with the willingness to say hey um i don't have all the answers hey um i don't have all the answers hey um i don't have all the answers right now but we know we're not going right now but we know we're not going right now but we know we're not going back that direction back that direction back that direction so so so so what is it we are going to do i think so what is it we are going to do i think so what is it we are going to do i think that willingness and that humility to that willingness and that humility to that willingness and that humility to accept that right now is probably the accept that right now is probably the accept that right now is probably the biggest thing yeah yeah biggest thing yeah yeah biggest thing yeah yeah where do you get your inspiration where do you get your inspiration where do you get your inspiration who do you follow who are you reading who do you follow who are you reading who do you follow who are you reading well i read a lot um as you can tell i'm well i read a lot um as you can tell i'm well i read a lot um as you can tell i'm a little bit of a nerd but um a little bit of a nerd but um a little bit of a nerd but um yeah man um you know my inspiration i yeah man um you know my inspiration i yeah man um you know my inspiration i just i love just i love just i love i love biographies i love the stories of i love biographies i love the stories of i love biographies i love the stories of guys guys guys um you know you hear about all these um you know you hear about all these um you know you hear about all these fascinating people and then when you fascinating people and then when you fascinating people and then when you read the biography you're like wow you read the biography you're like wow you read the biography you're like wow you are as screwed up as i am

so i always love reading biographies so i always love reading biographies because they make me feel better about because they make me feel better about because they make me feel better about myself myself myself but in all seriousness man so yeah i got but in all seriousness man so yeah i got but in all seriousness man so yeah i got done done done george washington uh john d rockefeller george washington uh john d rockefeller george washington uh john d rockefeller the most fascinating one the most fascinating one the most fascinating one in the past uh two years has been in the past uh two years has been in the past uh two years has been leonardo da vinci though um leonardo da vinci though um leonardo da vinci though um he may be he may be he may be he may be the most fascinating human of he may be the most fascinating human of he may be the most fascinating human of all time all time all time and a little crazy and a little crazy and a little crazy a lot crazy yeah a lot crazy yeah a lot crazy yeah a lot crazy yeah a lot crazy yeah a lot crazy yeah centuries too early yeah yeah very much centuries too early yeah yeah very much centuries too early yeah yeah very much ahead of this time ahead of this time ahead of this time but yeah man i mean that that's but yeah man i mean that that's but yeah man i mean that that's that's for me well your faith story like that's for me well your faith story like that's for me well your faith story like how you came to christ i mean it how you came to christ i mean it how you came to christ i mean it that is so incredibly awesome by the way that is so incredibly awesome by the way that is so incredibly awesome by the way that before you even set foot in a that before you even set foot in a that before you even set foot in a church or you just didn't care about church or you just didn't care about church or you just didn't care about church church church but you you got to know jesus but you you got to know jesus but you you got to know jesus and that's where you made that decision and that's where you made that decision and that's where you made that decision to follow him and that led to church to follow him and that led to church to follow him and that led to church let that sink in for people let that sink in for people let that sink in for people um we we have that backwards almost um we we have that backwards almost um we we have that backwards almost almost every single time it's like you almost every single time it's like you almost every single time it's like you got to get yourself into church got to get yourself into church got to get yourself into church and then you're going to meet the one and then you're going to meet the one and then you're going to meet the one who can change your life and that who can change your life and that who can change your life and that doesn't that didn't happen for you doesn't that didn't happen for you doesn't that didn't happen for you yeah and i know we're running out of yeah and i know we're running out of yeah and i know we're running out of time but i would say this i would say to time but i would say this i would say to time but i would say this i would say to think about the two decisions and not think about the two decisions and not think about the two decisions and not the one decision that you're asking the one decision that you're asking the one decision that you're asking people to make so for me people to make so for me people to make so for me i had a really bad experience with i had a really bad experience with i had a really bad experience with christians growing up um christians growing up um christians growing up um my story is basically this like i i grew my story is basically this like i i grew my story is basically this like i i grew up in affordable housing both my parents up in affordable housing both my parents up in affordable housing both my parents left before i was before i even left before i was before i even left before i was before i even graduated high school um and the way i graduated high school um and the way i graduated high school um and the way i was treated was treated was treated um was hard for me and i just was like i

um was hard for me and i just was like i um was hard for me and i just was like i don't want to ever put myself through don't want to ever put myself through don't want to ever put myself through that again the thing that's crazy man is that again the thing that's crazy man is that again the thing that's crazy man is i never had a problem with god i never had a problem with god i never had a problem with god i never like there was a part of me i never like there was a part of me i never like there was a part of me always and i believe this is in every always and i believe this is in every always and i believe this is in every human is an innate desire to believe human is an innate desire to believe human is an innate desire to believe that he exists that he exists that he exists we believe in god we we have a hard time we believe in god we we have a hard time we believe in god we we have a hard time reconciling reconciling reconciling a good god with the people and the a good god with the people and the a good god with the people and the experiences that we have experiences that we have experiences that we have right yeah and um so think about this right yeah and um so think about this right yeah and um so think about this from an identity perspective that if from an identity perspective that if from an identity perspective that if every person you meet hopes for the every person you meet hopes for the every person you meet hopes for the invitation of the gospel inherently invitation of the gospel inherently invitation of the gospel inherently hopes but doesn't identify as a church hopes but doesn't identify as a church hopes but doesn't identify as a church person person person are you asking them to make too many are you asking them to make too many are you asking them to make too many decisions at one time decisions at one time decisions at one time meaning meaning meaning can we be relevant to people and invite can we be relevant to people and invite can we be relevant to people and invite them into the story of the gospel them into the story of the gospel them into the story of the gospel without without without without also simultaneously asking them without also simultaneously asking them without also simultaneously asking them to change their identity because for me to change their identity because for me to change their identity because for me i couldn't go to a church building i couldn't go to a church building i couldn't go to a church building because i am not a church-going person because i am not a church-going person because i am not a church-going person i don't go to church that's for the i don't go to church that's for the i don't go to church that's for the that's for the people who need to feel that's for the people who need to feel that's for the people who need to feel better about the crap they do on better about the crap they do on better about the crap they do on saturday night that was how i felt about saturday night that was how i felt about saturday night that was how i felt about church right church right church right so you were asking me ultimately to make so you were asking me ultimately to make so you were asking me ultimately to make two choices not one and the person who two choices not one and the person who two choices not one and the person who ultimately asked me to only make the one ultimately asked me to only make the one ultimately asked me to only make the one choice i inherently wanted to make is choice i inherently wanted to make is choice i inherently wanted to make is the one who led me to crest the one who led me to crest the one who led me to crest wow boom okay wow boom okay wow boom okay wow wow wow uh uh uh we've got the top of the funnel we've got the top of the funnel we've got the top of the funnel wrong right we used to you kind of hit wrong right we used to you kind of hit wrong right we used to you kind of hit on this earlier nathan on this earlier nathan on this earlier nathan the top of the funnel once upon a time the top of the funnel once upon a time the top of the funnel once upon a time was people walking through the front was people walking through the front was people walking through the front door of your church building door of your church building door of your church building today

today today the top of the funnel is the top of the funnel is the top of the funnel is multiple steps removed and it could be multiple steps removed and it could be multiple steps removed and it could be as simple as the search results of a as simple as the search results of a as simple as the search results of a google search or a youtube video or a google search or a youtube video or a google search or a youtube video or a social media post social media post social media post or a friend in your neighborhood or a or a friend in your neighborhood or a or a friend in your neighborhood or a colleague at work or a relative who's colleague at work or a relative who's colleague at work or a relative who's connected to jesus in some way but the connected to jesus in some way but the connected to jesus in some way but the top of the funnel is no longer people top of the funnel is no longer people top of the funnel is no longer people walking through the front door and they walking through the front door and they walking through the front door and they use the word funnel it's a business term use the word funnel it's a business term use the word funnel it's a business term that a lot of businesses would use in that a lot of businesses would use in that a lot of businesses would use in terms of their sales cycle their the terms of their sales cycle their the terms of their sales cycle their the buyer's journey um you know our faith buyer's journey um you know our faith buyer's journey um you know our faith journey starts somewhere and in your journey starts somewhere and in your journey starts somewhere and in your case in a lot of other people's cases it case in a lot of other people's cases it case in a lot of other people's cases it starts far far away from the front door starts far far away from the front door starts far far away from the front door of a church building and that's okay in of a church building and that's okay in of a church building and that's okay in fact fact fact people were coming to faith in jesus people were coming to faith in jesus people were coming to faith in jesus for a really really long time before for a really really long time before for a really really long time before there were front doors of church there were front doors of church there were front doors of church buildings and we forget that we forget buildings and we forget that we forget buildings and we forget that we forget that sometimes that sometimes that sometimes we do for the sake of time need to wrap we do for the sake of time need to wrap we do for the sake of time need to wrap this up this has been an absolutely this up this has been an absolutely this up this has been an absolutely fascinating and phenomenal conversation fascinating and phenomenal conversation fascinating and phenomenal conversation um i'm gonna hang on to your email um i'm gonna hang on to your email um i'm gonna hang on to your email address nathan and uh probably hit you address nathan and uh probably hit you address nathan and uh probably hit you up to do this again another time because up to do this again another time because up to do this again another time because we really only we really only scraped we really only we really only scraped we really only we really only scraped the the surface on some things that uh the the surface on some things that uh the the surface on some things that uh that we could have been uh discussing uh that we could have been uh discussing uh that we could have been uh discussing uh the irony is uh you wrote a a blog post the irony is uh you wrote a a blog post the irony is uh you wrote a a blog post uh called how digital will change uh called how digital will change uh called how digital will change multi-site for churches and that's what multi-site for churches and that's what multi-site for churches and that's what got my attention and that's what we were got my attention and that's what we were got my attention and that's what we were going to talk about in this podcast going to talk about in this podcast going to talk about in this podcast episode before we started talking about episode before we started talking about episode before we started talking about all this other stuff so i'm gonna i'm all this other stuff so i'm gonna i'm all this other stuff so i'm gonna i'm gonna go ahead and link to that uh blog gonna go ahead and link to that uh blog gonna go ahead and link to that uh blog post in the show notes of this podcast

post in the show notes of this podcast post in the show notes of this podcast in case somebody wants to uh wants to to in case somebody wants to uh wants to to in case somebody wants to uh wants to to read that um but hey as we wrap up if read that um but hey as we wrap up if read that um but hey as we wrap up if people want to connect with you what's people want to connect with you what's people want to connect with you what's the best way for them to do that the best way for them to do that the best way for them to do that yeah so um the company that really yeah so um the company that really yeah so um the company that really focuses we have two companies it's um focuses we have two companies it's um focuses we have two companies it's um ministry dash solutions.com ministry dash solutions.com ministry dash solutions.com and then our leadership development and then our leadership development and then our leadership development leader groups uh events a lot of content leader groups uh events a lot of content leader groups uh events a lot of content around this subject around this subject around this subject that is el dot solutions that's that is el dot solutions that's that is el dot solutions that's executive leadership solutions executive leadership solutions executive leadership solutions el.solutions el.solutions el.solutions uh in my it's nathan at both of those uh uh in my it's nathan at both of those uh uh in my it's nathan at both of those uh urls if you will urls if you will urls if you will to contact me to contact me to contact me nathan thanks so much for taking time nathan thanks so much for taking time nathan thanks so much for taking time out of your day to hang out with jason out of your day to hang out with jason out of your day to hang out with jason and me this has really been an awesome and me this has really been an awesome and me this has really been an awesome conversation and confident that our our conversation and confident that our our conversation and confident that our our friends our listeners and viewers will friends our listeners and viewers will friends our listeners and viewers will be really blessed by it thanks awesome be really blessed by it thanks awesome be really blessed by it thanks awesome man all right thank you guys man all right thank you guys man all right thank you guys [Music]