Old School vs. New School Church Marketing | Jason and Bart

[Music] [Music] But here's the reality. I'm still a fan But here's the reality. I'm still a fan But here's the reality. I'm still a fan of direct mail. I'm still a fan of of direct mail. I'm still a fan of of direct mail. I'm still a fan of traditional, you know, advertising traditional, you know, advertising traditional, you know, advertising methods when it's built around a methods when it's built around a methods when it's built around a strategy. So, I'm not a fan of going, strategy. So, I'm not a fan of going, strategy. So, I'm not a fan of going, "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes in our "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes in our "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes in our community. Let's send everybody a piece community. Let's send everybody a piece community. Let's send everybody a piece of mail." That's not an effective of mail." That's not an effective of mail." That's not an effective strategy. Welcome to another episode of strategy. Welcome to another episode of strategy. Welcome to another episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast. We are the Missional Marketing Podcast. We are the Missional Marketing Podcast. We are your hosts, Mr. Dr. Jason Hamrock, the your hosts, Mr. Dr. Jason Hamrock, the your hosts, Mr. Dr. Jason Hamrock, the CEO of Missional Marketing. Good day, CEO of Missional Marketing. Good day, CEO of Missional Marketing. Good day, Jason. Good day, Bart. How are you Jason. Good day, Bart. How are you Jason. Good day, Bart. How are you today? I'm doing great. My name is Bart today? I'm doing great. My name is Bart today? I'm doing great. My name is Bart Blair. I'm the brand director for the Blair. I'm the brand director for the Blair. I'm the brand director for the Missional Marketing team within the Missional Marketing team within the Missional Marketing team within the Missional Marketing Group of Companies. Missional Marketing Group of Companies. Missional Marketing Group of Companies. And uh man, I'm delighted to be doing And uh man, I'm delighted to be doing And uh man, I'm delighted to be doing another podcast episode with you, Jason. another podcast episode with you, Jason. another podcast episode with you, Jason. I We've been scheduling a few of these I We've been scheduling a few of these I We've been scheduling a few of these on Fridays, and it's actually kind of a on Fridays, and it's actually kind of a on Fridays, and it's actually kind of a fun way to wrap up the week. We always fun way to wrap up the week. We always fun way to wrap up the week. We always take a few minutes to kind of catch up take a few minutes to kind of catch up take a few minutes to kind of catch up on how our week has been going before we on how our week has been going before we on how our week has been going before we jump in here and talk about all the fun jump in here and talk about all the fun jump in here and talk about all the fun and exciting things that we get to talk and exciting things that we get to talk and exciting things that we get to talk about. Um, and I'm I'm glad you had a about. Um, and I'm I'm glad you had a about. Um, and I'm I'm glad you had a good week. A busy week. A good week.

good week. A busy week. A good week. good week. A busy week. A good week. It's a busy week. I love talking with It's a busy week. I love talking with It's a busy week. I love talking with churches and just giving them advice and churches and just giving them advice and churches and just giving them advice and counsel and that fuels me up. Um, and of counsel and that fuels me up. Um, and of counsel and that fuels me up. Um, and of course churches bring me their course churches bring me their course churches bring me their challenges and uh, so you know, challenges and uh, so you know, challenges and uh, so you know, sometimes that can be a little draining, sometimes that can be a little draining, sometimes that can be a little draining, but you dive in because you got to get but you dive in because you got to get but you dive in because you got to get through it. So, all in all, great week through it. So, all in all, great week through it. So, all in all, great week to connect with our team and help to connect with our team and help to connect with our team and help churches win. And as of this moment churches win. And as of this moment churches win. And as of this moment right here, we're about a week from right here, we're about a week from right here, we're about a week from Easter in 2025. And so, we're just super Easter in 2025. And so, we're just super Easter in 2025. And so, we're just super pumped and praying that God's going to pumped and praying that God's going to pumped and praying that God's going to do some amazing things, which he always do some amazing things, which he always do some amazing things, which he always does uh this Easter season to bring more does uh this Easter season to bring more does uh this Easter season to bring more people into uh in the kingdom of heaven people into uh in the kingdom of heaven people into uh in the kingdom of heaven by saying yes to him. Yep. Absolutely. by saying yes to him. Yep. Absolutely. by saying yes to him. Yep. Absolutely. Uh we're we are in the middle of it. Uh we're we are in the middle of it. Uh we're we are in the middle of it. It's very exciting. Now, by the time you It's very exciting. Now, by the time you It's very exciting. Now, by the time you are listening to this episode or are listening to this episode or are listening to this episode or watching it on our YouTube channel, uh watching it on our YouTube channel, uh watching it on our YouTube channel, uh it'll be past Easter. You'll actually it'll be past Easter. You'll actually it'll be past Easter. You'll actually probably be flying towards the summer. probably be flying towards the summer. probably be flying towards the summer. And uh you know, our goal with this And uh you know, our goal with this And uh you know, our goal with this podcast is to help churches grow by podcast is to help churches grow by podcast is to help churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and effective communication. And today, effective communication. And today, effective communication. And today, we're going to talk about a few we're going to talk about a few we're going to talk about a few different topics that I think actually different topics that I think actually different topics that I think actually could be super helpful for churches as could be super helpful for churches as could be super helpful for churches as they move into the summer months, some they move into the summer months, some they move into the summer months, some things to think about, some things to things to think about, some things to things to think about, some things to work on. Now, I kind of jokingly put at work on. Now, I kind of jokingly put at work on. Now, I kind of jokingly put at the the top of this um this the document the the top of this um this the document the the top of this um this the document that you and I are reading some that you and I are reading some that you and I are reading some questions off of the mailbag episode.

questions off of the mailbag episode. questions off of the mailbag episode. And I'll be honest, I stole that. I I I And I'll be honest, I stole that. I I I And I'll be honest, I stole that. I I I listen to a podcast called I think it's listen to a podcast called I think it's listen to a podcast called I think it's called For the Church from Midwestern called For the Church from Midwestern called For the Church from Midwestern Seminary. And every once in a while, Seminary. And every once in a while, Seminary. And every once in a while, they'll do an episode that they call it they'll do an episode that they call it they'll do an episode that they call it their mailbag episode where they they their mailbag episode where they they their mailbag episode where they they answer questions. We don't really have a answer questions. We don't really have a answer questions. We don't really have a mailbag and nor did anybody actually mailbag and nor did anybody actually mailbag and nor did anybody actually send us these questions. But I was send us these questions. But I was send us these questions. But I was scrolling through the Church scrolling through the Church scrolling through the Church Communications Facebook group. Shameless Communications Facebook group. Shameless Communications Facebook group. Shameless plug there. We'll link to that in the plug there. We'll link to that in the plug there. We'll link to that in the show notes of the podcast. And u I saw show notes of the podcast. And u I saw show notes of the podcast. And u I saw one of our friends, I will not name her, one of our friends, I will not name her, one of our friends, I will not name her, but you know, she's one of our uh church but you know, she's one of our uh church but you know, she's one of our uh church communication friends up in Wisconsin. communication friends up in Wisconsin. communication friends up in Wisconsin. You'll know exactly who I'm talking You'll know exactly who I'm talking You'll know exactly who I'm talking about. Uh she posted a question in the about. Uh she posted a question in the about. Uh she posted a question in the in the Facebook group, and I was like, in the Facebook group, and I was like, in the Facebook group, and I was like, "Well, that's a really good question." "Well, that's a really good question." "Well, that's a really good question." And I I I bet a lot of people other And I I I bet a lot of people other And I I I bet a lot of people other people would be wondering the same people would be wondering the same people would be wondering the same thing. And I thought, "Oo, we've got a thing. And I thought, "Oo, we've got a thing. And I thought, "Oo, we've got a podcast episode today. Why don't we podcast episode today. Why don't we podcast episode today. Why don't we answer that question?" And then I answer that question?" And then I answer that question?" And then I thought, what other questions are people thought, what other questions are people thought, what other questions are people asking in the church communications asking in the church communications asking in the church communications group that we could potentially answer group that we could potentially answer group that we could potentially answer on this podcast episode? So, I grabbed a on this podcast episode? So, I grabbed a on this podcast episode? So, I grabbed a couple of others. So, that's what we're couple of others. So, that's what we're couple of others. So, that's what we're doing today. We're actually in real time doing today. We're actually in real time doing today. We're actually in real time uh answering questions that people have uh answering questions that people have uh answering questions that people have asked in the church communications asked in the church communications asked in the church communications Facebook group. They're asking of their Facebook group. They're asking of their Facebook group. They're asking of their peers, of other church communications peers, of other church communications peers, of other church communications professionals and other people serving professionals and other people serving professionals and other people serving on church staff. And of course, they're on church staff. And of course, they're on church staff. And of course, they're probably not going to wait 3 weeks or probably not going to wait 3 weeks or probably not going to wait 3 weeks or four weeks or whenever this episode four weeks or whenever this episode four weeks or whenever this episode comes out to get their answer, but we're comes out to get their answer, but we're comes out to get their answer, but we're going to answer them nonetheless. Okay.

going to answer them nonetheless. Okay. going to answer them nonetheless. Okay. So, I've set the table for this and I'm So, I've set the table for this and I'm So, I've set the table for this and I'm going to I'm just going to read the going to I'm just going to read the going to I'm just going to read the first question as it was posed. I've first question as it was posed. I've first question as it was posed. I've edited these a little bit to convince edited these a little bit to convince edited these a little bit to convince them and to keep things anonymous. But them and to keep things anonymous. But them and to keep things anonymous. But here's the first question. Jason, you here's the first question. Jason, you here's the first question. Jason, you ready? All right. Direct mail. Is it ready? All right. Direct mail. Is it ready? All right. Direct mail. Is it still a thing? We have some on our team still a thing? We have some on our team still a thing? We have some on our team who would like to go old school and do a who would like to go old school and do a who would like to go old school and do a direct mail campaign. I think it would direct mail campaign. I think it would direct mail campaign. I think it would be better to have the people who attend be better to have the people who attend be better to have the people who attend leave Google reviews then put the money leave Google reviews then put the money leave Google reviews then put the money into Google ads. thoughts. Oh, I have into Google ads. thoughts. Oh, I have into Google ads. thoughts. Oh, I have thoughts. Okay. thoughts. Okay. thoughts. Okay. So, you know, 10 years ago when I came So, you know, 10 years ago when I came So, you know, 10 years ago when I came here to missional marketing, it was a here to missional marketing, it was a here to missional marketing, it was a passion to help churches, specifically passion to help churches, specifically passion to help churches, specifically comm's teams, understand how digital comm's teams, understand how digital comm's teams, understand how digital digital tools can reach people. So, digital tools can reach people. So, digital tools can reach people. So, that's why we put all our eggs in that that's why we put all our eggs in that that's why we put all our eggs in that basket. But here's the reality. I'm basket. But here's the reality. I'm basket. But here's the reality. I'm still a fan of direct mail. I'm still a still a fan of direct mail. I'm still a still a fan of direct mail. I'm still a fan of traditional uh you know fan of traditional uh you know fan of traditional uh you know advertising methods when it's built advertising methods when it's built advertising methods when it's built around a strategy. So, I'm not a fan of around a strategy. So, I'm not a fan of around a strategy. So, I'm not a fan of going, "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes going, "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes going, "Hey, we have about 200,000 homes in our community. Let's send everybody a in our community. Let's send everybody a in our community. Let's send everybody a piece of mail." That's not an effective piece of mail." That's not an effective piece of mail." That's not an effective strategy. Hoping that it works. I mean, strategy. Hoping that it works. I mean, strategy. Hoping that it works. I mean, it might, but it's so hard to understand it might, but it's so hard to understand it might, but it's so hard to understand how effective that was. Instead, what I how effective that was. Instead, what I how effective that was. Instead, what I always recommend is go take the approach always recommend is go take the approach always recommend is go take the approach of building a of building a of building a strategic marketing campaign. And I've strategic marketing campaign. And I've strategic marketing campaign. And I've done this with other churches. So, done this with other churches. So, done this with other churches. So, here's an example. Let's say your

here's an example. Let's say your here's an example. Let's say your church, you know, where you're located church, you know, where you're located church, you know, where you're located that there is a cluster of people in a that there is a cluster of people in a that there is a cluster of people in a neighborhood. And maybe it's a newer neighborhood. And maybe it's a newer neighborhood. And maybe it's a newer neighborhood because new homes are going neighborhood because new homes are going neighborhood because new homes are going up there or just you you see that it up there or just you you see that it up there or just you you see that it changes a lot. You know, people buy and changes a lot. You know, people buy and changes a lot. You know, people buy and sell. But let's just say it's it's a sell. But let's just say it's it's a sell. But let's just say it's it's a neighborhood and we're talking maybe a neighborhood and we're talking maybe a neighborhood and we're talking maybe a couple of square miles or something like couple of square miles or something like couple of square miles or something like that. What I would do is several things. that. What I would do is several things. that. What I would do is several things. First, I'd identify the people who go to First, I'd identify the people who go to First, I'd identify the people who go to our church who live in those our church who live in those our church who live in those neighborhoods. Okay? So, p pull that neighborhoods. Okay? So, p pull that neighborhoods. Okay? So, p pull that list together. Second, I would do a list together. Second, I would do a list together. Second, I would do a direct mail campaign to those homes in direct mail campaign to those homes in direct mail campaign to those homes in that area. Third, I would run digital that area. Third, I would run digital that area. Third, I would run digital ads, both social media and Google ads, ads, both social media and Google ads, ads, both social media and Google ads, and I would target those areas. Okay, and I would target those areas. Okay, and I would target those areas. Okay, let's go back to that first list, that let's go back to that first list, that let's go back to that first list, that first list of the people who actually first list of the people who actually first list of the people who actually live in your air, live in that live in your air, live in that live in your air, live in that neighborhood. Here's what I'd do. I'd neighborhood. Here's what I'd do. I'd neighborhood. Here's what I'd do. I'd recruit them. I would say, "Hey, we are recruit them. I would say, "Hey, we are recruit them. I would say, "Hey, we are we are sending you a message because you we are sending you a message because you we are sending you a message because you have unofficially been added to our have unofficially been added to our have unofficially been added to our marketing team. Here's what we're doing.

marketing team. Here's what we're doing. marketing team. Here's what we're doing. We are blitzing your neighbors. We are We are blitzing your neighbors. We are We are blitzing your neighbors. We are wanting to let them know that we're a wanting to let them know that we're a wanting to let them know that we're a church that has answers for them. So, church that has answers for them. So, church that has answers for them. So, you need to help us in this. So, you can you need to help us in this. So, you can you need to help us in this. So, you can come by and pick up a yard sign or we come by and pick up a yard sign or we come by and pick up a yard sign or we want you to share and invite your want you to share and invite your want you to share and invite your friends because they're going to get a friends because they're going to get a friends because they're going to get a direct mail piece of something in the direct mail piece of something in the direct mail piece of something in the mail and they're going to be opening mail and they're going to be opening mail and they're going to be opening their phones and they're going to see their phones and they're going to see their phones and they're going to see and Google there's ads about the church and Google there's ads about the church and Google there's ads about the church and they're going to go to social media and they're going to go to social media and they're going to go to social media and see there's social media ads and and see there's social media ads and and see there's social media ads and postings about the church. We are doing postings about the church. We are doing postings about the church. We are doing a marketing campaign because we want a marketing campaign because we want a marketing campaign because we want more people from your neighborhood more people from your neighborhood more people from your neighborhood coming to our church. So, will you coming to our church. So, will you coming to our church. So, will you partner with us and inviting and partner with us and inviting and partner with us and inviting and bringing your friends? Just know we're bringing your friends? Just know we're bringing your friends? Just know we're giving you some some tools here. So, giving you some some tools here. So, giving you some some tools here. So, we'll give you some invite cards. We'll we'll give you some invite cards. We'll we'll give you some invite cards. We'll give you something to put like a yard give you something to put like a yard give you something to put like a yard sign and we want to have a concentrated sign and we want to have a concentrated sign and we want to have a concentrated effort. That's how I would utilize uh effort. That's how I would utilize uh effort. That's how I would utilize uh direct mail piece. Any thoughts? Yeah, direct mail piece. Any thoughts? Yeah, direct mail piece. Any thoughts? Yeah, love it. Uh I I think again it's the love it. Uh I I think again it's the love it. Uh I I think again it's the word is strategy. That's the key word word is strategy. That's the key word word is strategy. That's the key word that you used. And a and a direct mail that you used. And a and a direct mail that you used. And a and a direct mail campaign by itself is not a strategy. campaign by itself is not a strategy. campaign by itself is not a strategy. But neither is a Google display ad But neither is a Google display ad But neither is a Google display ad campaign by itself a strategy, right?

campaign by itself a strategy, right? campaign by itself a strategy, right? You have to have multiple pieces working You have to have multiple pieces working You have to have multiple pieces working together. I mean, you and I have talked together. I mean, you and I have talked together. I mean, you and I have talked about this on this podcast before. Your about this on this podcast before. Your about this on this podcast before. Your Google display ad campaign is only as Google display ad campaign is only as Google display ad campaign is only as good as the landing page that you're good as the landing page that you're good as the landing page that you're driving people to when they click on the driving people to when they click on the driving people to when they click on the ad and come to your website. So, there ad and come to your website. So, there ad and come to your website. So, there are a lot of different factors. I I are a lot of different factors. I I are a lot of different factors. I I actually had just yesterday a call with actually had just yesterday a call with actually had just yesterday a call with a church and we were talking about um we a church and we were talking about um we a church and we were talking about um we we were talking about more traditional we were talking about more traditional we were talking about more traditional marketing methods. Specifically, they marketing methods. Specifically, they marketing methods. Specifically, they were talking about a local magazine and were talking about a local magazine and were talking about a local magazine and running ads in the local magazine and running ads in the local magazine and running ads in the local magazine and wanted my my thoughts, my input. And I wanted my my thoughts, my input. And I wanted my my thoughts, my input. And I would say that what we discussed about would say that what we discussed about would say that what we discussed about the magazine ads is very similar to any the magazine ads is very similar to any the magazine ads is very similar to any direct mail. The upside is you're going direct mail. The upside is you're going direct mail. The upside is you're going to be able to deliver a piece of content to be able to deliver a piece of content to be able to deliver a piece of content to people intentionally who may not to people intentionally who may not to people intentionally who may not otherwise see your marketing, right? uh otherwise see your marketing, right? uh otherwise see your marketing, right? uh you can't control specifically who sees you can't control specifically who sees you can't control specifically who sees your Facebook or Instagram ads or who your Facebook or Instagram ads or who your Facebook or Instagram ads or who sees your Google ads. You you you can't sees your Google ads. You you you can't sees your Google ads. You you you can't control that. But you can control which control that. But you can control which control that. But you can control which mailboxes get your postcard or your mailboxes get your postcard or your mailboxes get your postcard or your piece of mail, right? That what you piece of mail, right? That what you piece of mail, right? That what you can't do is you can't discern how much can't do is you can't discern how much can't do is you can't discern how much engagement you're getting from those engagement you're getting from those engagement you're getting from those pieces. That's the challenging side with pieces. That's the challenging side with pieces. That's the challenging side with traditional mail marketing is that we traditional mail marketing is that we traditional mail marketing is that we really don't know how effective those really don't know how effective those really don't know how effective those pieces are when people are coming to our pieces are when people are coming to our pieces are when people are coming to our website. Now, you can use, you know, website. Now, you can use, you know, website. Now, you can use, you know, unique QR codes or a unique landing page unique QR codes or a unique landing page unique QR codes or a unique landing page for that piece. But the upside to a for that piece. But the upside to a for that piece. But the upside to a Google campaign is that I can go in and Google campaign is that I can go in and Google campaign is that I can go in and I can see age, gender, uh, I can see the I can see age, gender, uh, I can see the I can see age, gender, uh, I can see the demographics. I know exactly where demographics. I know exactly where demographics. I know exactly where people are. Yep. Then I can actually see people are. Yep. Then I can actually see people are. Yep. Then I can actually see what they've done when they come to the what they've done when they come to the what they've done when they come to the church website, right? Whether they

church website, right? Whether they church website, right? Whether they engaged or not. So I'm most you know you engaged or not. So I'm most you know you engaged or not. So I'm most you know you know I'm very involved in like church know I'm very involved in like church know I'm very involved in like church planting and church replanting and and a planting and church replanting and and a planting and church replanting and and a lot of I I think a lot of churches that lot of I I think a lot of churches that lot of I I think a lot of churches that use the launch large model which ARC and use the launch large model which ARC and use the launch large model which ARC and some other organizations would promote some other organizations would promote some other organizations would promote will almost always include a direct mail will almost always include a direct mail will almost always include a direct mail piece in their church's launch campaign. piece in their church's launch campaign. piece in their church's launch campaign. And I don't think they would do it if And I don't think they would do it if And I don't think they would do it if they didn't find it to have some level they didn't find it to have some level they didn't find it to have some level of effectiveness. Now, I lived in of effectiveness. Now, I lived in of effectiveness. Now, I lived in another community a few years ago where another community a few years ago where another community a few years ago where there was one church in my city that I there was one church in my city that I there was one church in my city that I literally got a postcard from them every literally got a postcard from them every literally got a postcard from them every single month. I don't know how much single month. I don't know how much single month. I don't know how much money they were spending on direct mail. money they were spending on direct mail. money they were spending on direct mail. I'm thinking it's tens of thousands if I'm thinking it's tens of thousands if I'm thinking it's tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on not hundreds of thousands of dollars on not hundreds of thousands of dollars on direct mail because it is a lot of direct mail because it is a lot of direct mail because it is a lot of postcards. Um, I don't know that that postcards. Um, I don't know that that postcards. Um, I don't know that that would be the wisest use of your money, would be the wisest use of your money, would be the wisest use of your money, but I I'm like you. I I'm I'm not I'm but I I'm like you. I I'm I'm not I'm but I I'm like you. I I'm I'm not I'm not against using direct mail if it is not against using direct mail if it is not against using direct mail if it is part of a holistic strategy for part of a holistic strategy for part of a holistic strategy for marketing. Yep. Any final thoughts on marketing. Yep. Any final thoughts on marketing. Yep. Any final thoughts on that or should we move on to the next that or should we move on to the next that or should we move on to the next question? No. Next question. Okay, we'll question? No. Next question. Okay, we'll question? No. Next question. Okay, we'll say enough said on that. All right, say enough said on that. All right, say enough said on that. All right, here's the next question. The next here's the next question. The next here's the next question. The next topic. This is what the person posted in topic. This is what the person posted in topic. This is what the person posted in the church communications Facebook the church communications Facebook the church communications Facebook group. I'm searching for some insight on group. I'm searching for some insight on group. I'm searching for some insight on volunteers in the communication world of volunteers in the communication world of volunteers in the communication world of a church. Have you had any luck with a church. Have you had any luck with a church. Have you had any luck with getting a volunteer in the roles of a getting a volunteer in the roles of a getting a volunteer in the roles of a photographer, videographer, merch photographer, videographer, merch photographer, videographer, merch designer, etc. Any insight will be designer, etc. Any insight will be designer, etc. Any insight will be helpful. Oh, wow. This is the ongoing helpful. Oh, wow. This is the ongoing helpful. Oh, wow. This is the ongoing always looking for great servant leaders always looking for great servant leaders always looking for great servant leaders who have a talent. So, um, yeah, I do

who have a talent. So, um, yeah, I do who have a talent. So, um, yeah, I do this. I I I have done a lot with this. I I I have done a lot with this. I I I have done a lot with churches in this space. And so, finding churches in this space. And so, finding churches in this space. And so, finding and re retaining and keeping them is and re retaining and keeping them is and re retaining and keeping them is really really difficult. They're in your really really difficult. They're in your really really difficult. They're in your church likely at least there's got to be church likely at least there's got to be church likely at least there's got to be somebody in your church, right? God's somebody in your church, right? God's somebody in your church, right? God's gifted you with the ability of maybe gifted you with the ability of maybe gifted you with the ability of maybe holding a camera, even if it's an holding a camera, even if it's an holding a camera, even if it's an iPhone, and taking good pictures because iPhone, and taking good pictures because iPhone, and taking good pictures because it's not necessarily the technology it's not necessarily the technology it's not necessarily the technology because my phone is such a great camera. because my phone is such a great camera. because my phone is such a great camera. It's really about the uh the ability to It's really about the uh the ability to It's really about the uh the ability to see and take the right picture that's see and take the right picture that's see and take the right picture that's going to evoke emotion, right? That just going to evoke emotion, right? That just going to evoke emotion, right? That just having that that camera eye. So, there's having that that camera eye. So, there's having that that camera eye. So, there's probably people in your church that that probably people in your church that that probably people in your church that that have that. What I found to be most have that. What I found to be most have that. What I found to be most successful is when you are recruiting successful is when you are recruiting successful is when you are recruiting these people, you empower them, you these people, you empower them, you these people, you empower them, you celebrate them. Um, you you also make celebrate them. Um, you you also make celebrate them. Um, you you also make sure that you help them. So empowering sure that you help them. So empowering sure that you help them. So empowering them means, hey, you are, you know, them means, hey, you are, you know, them means, hey, you are, you know, you're getting a badge. You're like a you're getting a badge. You're like a you're getting a badge. You're like a staff member, right? A non-paid staff staff member, right? A non-paid staff staff member, right? A non-paid staff member on our team who can go into any member on our team who can go into any member on our team who can go into any kind of area and take pictures because kind of area and take pictures because kind of area and take pictures because this is how we help others who don't go this is how we help others who don't go this is how we help others who don't go to our church recognize who we are, to our church recognize who we are, to our church recognize who we are, right? So, you want to empower them. Um, right? So, you want to empower them. Um, right? So, you want to empower them. Um, then you want to you really want to then you want to you really want to then you want to you really want to equip them. What is it that you're going equip them. What is it that you're going equip them. What is it that you're going to need to be able to be successful in to need to be able to be successful in to need to be able to be successful in this role? Because this is a really this role? Because this is a really this role? Because this is a really really important role. And then you got really important role. And then you got really important role. And then you got to celebrate them. You got to make sure to celebrate them. You got to make sure to celebrate them. You got to make sure that you're bringing them together and that you're bringing them together and that you're bringing them together and you're honoring them and you're just you're honoring them and you're just you're honoring them and you're just you're pouring into them um just as much you're pouring into them um just as much you're pouring into them um just as much as what you're get trying to get out of

as what you're get trying to get out of as what you're get trying to get out of them. And so, it's just like any other them. And so, it's just like any other them. And so, it's just like any other volunteer position at your church. You volunteer position at your church. You volunteer position at your church. You really want to be very mindful about really want to be very mindful about really want to be very mindful about that. But I'm just telling I you you that. But I'm just telling I you you that. But I'm just telling I you you can't just, hey, take some pictures and can't just, hey, take some pictures and can't just, hey, take some pictures and let us know how it goes. That's not the let us know how it goes. That's not the let us know how it goes. That's not the way you want to do it. You got to set way you want to do it. You got to set way you want to do it. You got to set those expectations. I'll tell you the those expectations. I'll tell you the those expectations. I'll tell you the churches that I work with have done that churches that I work with have done that churches that I work with have done that have found really great key volunteers. have found really great key volunteers. have found really great key volunteers. I've also seen the churches that kind of I've also seen the churches that kind of I've also seen the churches that kind of abuse that and then they quit. In fact, abuse that and then they quit. In fact, abuse that and then they quit. In fact, not only they quit, they quit the not only they quit, they quit the not only they quit, they quit the church. So it can be it can get really church. So it can be it can get really church. So it can be it can get really ugly really quick if you don't really ugly really quick if you don't really ugly really quick if you don't really empower them. So first things first, empower them. So first things first, empower them. So first things first, make sure you've actually built like a make sure you've actually built like a make sure you've actually built like a sort of a servant leader volunteer job sort of a servant leader volunteer job sort of a servant leader volunteer job description what this looks like. What description what this looks like. What description what this looks like. What are those expectations? And then and are those expectations? And then and are those expectations? And then and then let the church know, hey, we have then let the church know, hey, we have then let the church know, hey, we have an we have opportunities. Now most of an we have opportunities. Now most of an we have opportunities. Now most of this is in photography. you get into this is in photography. you get into this is in photography. you get into video, that's definitely a a more video, that's definitely a a more video, that's definitely a a more complex thing because video is just is complex thing because video is just is complex thing because video is just is is just a different animal than snapping is just a different animal than snapping is just a different animal than snapping photos for social media or whatnot. But photos for social media or whatnot. But photos for social media or whatnot. But I would outline that and that's what I I I would outline that and that's what I I I would outline that and that's what I I I would recruit those people and you I would recruit those people and you I would recruit those people and you make sure you have kind of one-on- ones make sure you have kind of one-on- ones make sure you have kind of one-on- ones with them and you know, you treat them with them and you know, you treat them with them and you know, you treat them as a staff person, so to speak. Um, as a staff person, so to speak. Um, as a staff person, so to speak. Um, that's really really important. That's that's really really important. That's that's really really important. That's sort of my my thoughts. We've recorded sort of my my thoughts. We've recorded sort of my my thoughts. We've recorded so many episodes of this podcast on so many episodes of this podcast on so many episodes of this podcast on volunteers. Uh we've we've had episodes, volunteers. Uh we've we've had episodes, volunteers. Uh we've we've had episodes, we'll link to these in the show notes.

we'll link to these in the show notes. we'll link to these in the show notes. We've had um conversations with Nick We've had um conversations with Nick We've had um conversations with Nick Blevens, with Maryanne Sibi, with Dan Blevens, with Maryanne Sibi, with Dan Blevens, with Maryanne Sibi, with Dan Ryland all about volunteers. We did a we Ryland all about volunteers. We did a we Ryland all about volunteers. We did a we did an episode last year uh with um did an episode last year uh with um did an episode last year uh with um uh oh goodness, all of a sudden names my uh oh goodness, all of a sudden names my uh oh goodness, all of a sudden names my I on on building a photography building I on on building a photography building I on on building a photography building a photography team. Uh and I'll link to a photography team. Uh and I'll link to a photography team. Uh and I'll link to all those in the show notes. I'll find all those in the show notes. I'll find all those in the show notes. I'll find all those episodes and we'll we'll get all those episodes and we'll we'll get all those episodes and we'll we'll get them in there. I a lot of them. Yeah, them in there. I a lot of them. Yeah, them in there. I a lot of them. Yeah, we've done a bunch. I I will start with we've done a bunch. I I will start with we've done a bunch. I I will start with this. When you've I think it's a good this. When you've I think it's a good this. When you've I think it's a good stewardship of your human resources to stewardship of your human resources to stewardship of your human resources to always be looking for ways that you can always be looking for ways that you can always be looking for ways that you can empower people in your church to serve empower people in your church to serve empower people in your church to serve on every ministry team and that includes on every ministry team and that includes on every ministry team and that includes communications. Yeah. So, this is a this communications. Yeah. So, this is a this communications. Yeah. So, this is a this is we've we've preached on this podcast is we've we've preached on this podcast is we've we've preached on this podcast on this before. I think it's a fail on a on this before. I think it's a fail on a on this before. I think it's a fail on a church's part to think that all the church's part to think that all the church's part to think that all the communication stuff has to be done by communication stuff has to be done by communication stuff has to be done by paid staff and that you can't empower paid staff and that you can't empower paid staff and that you can't empower volunteers to serve on your team. So, volunteers to serve on your team. So, volunteers to serve on your team. So, for starters, I I think you got to I do for starters, I I think you got to I do for starters, I I think you got to I do think you you mentioned this and I'm think you you mentioned this and I'm think you you mentioned this and I'm going to but I'll I'll bang the gong a going to but I'll I'll bang the gong a going to but I'll I'll bang the gong a little louder. You start with a very little louder. You start with a very little louder. You start with a very clear position description. Yeah. what clear position description. Yeah. what clear position description. Yeah. what the role looks like, what the the role looks like, what the the role looks like, what the expectations are, what kind of expectations are, what kind of expectations are, what kind of equipment, training, and support that equipment, training, and support that equipment, training, and support that the person that you're asking to the person that you're asking to the person that you're asking to volunteer uh is is going to get, and volunteer uh is is going to get, and volunteer uh is is going to get, and what the time expectations are. Just you what the time expectations are. Just you what the time expectations are. Just you should do this with every ministry in should do this with every ministry in should do this with every ministry in your church, but I think it's really your church, but I think it's really your church, but I think it's really important that it's not just, hey, do important that it's not just, hey, do important that it's not just, hey, do you want to be a photographer and help you want to be a photographer and help you want to be a photographer and help us take pictures for our social media?

us take pictures for our social media? us take pictures for our social media? Or, hey, do you want to run a camera on Or, hey, do you want to run a camera on Or, hey, do you want to run a camera on Sundays and be like, it needs to be a Sundays and be like, it needs to be a Sundays and be like, it needs to be a very, very clear position description very, very clear position description very, very clear position description with what you're looking for. Um, a lot with what you're looking for. Um, a lot with what you're looking for. Um, a lot of those skills that you're talking of those skills that you're talking of those skills that you're talking about, photography and videography or about, photography and videography or about, photography and videography or video editing, those types of things are video editing, those types of things are video editing, those types of things are skills that can actually be learned if skills that can actually be learned if skills that can actually be learned if somebody has some basic understanding. somebody has some basic understanding. somebody has some basic understanding. They perhaps purchase some online They perhaps purchase some online They perhaps purchase some online tutorials or some lessons or some things tutorials or some lessons or some things tutorials or some lessons or some things to help them grow in those skills so to help them grow in those skills so to help them grow in those skills so they actually get better. But I think they actually get better. But I think they actually get better. But I think having a very clear position having a very clear position having a very clear position description, having a very clear set of description, having a very clear set of description, having a very clear set of standard operating procedures in terms standard operating procedures in terms standard operating procedures in terms of what you're expecting them to do of what you're expecting them to do of what you're expecting them to do week, week out, month in, month out, uh, week, week out, month in, month out, uh, week, week out, month in, month out, uh, I think those are really important. I I think those are really important. I I think those are really important. I think if you can begin with just a think if you can begin with just a think if you can begin with just a couple of those roles like the the couple of those roles like the the couple of those roles like the the photographer role, you'll begin to see photographer role, you'll begin to see photographer role, you'll begin to see how you could actually incorporate other how you could actually incorporate other how you could actually incorporate other people such as project coordinators or people such as project coordinators or people such as project coordinators or um you know copywriters. There's so many um you know copywriters. There's so many um you know copywriters. There's so many different roles that you could employ in different roles that you could employ in different roles that you could employ in your volunteer communications team. You your volunteer communications team. You your volunteer communications team. You just have to think outside the box. You just have to think outside the box. You just have to think outside the box. You have to do it successfully a few times.

have to do it successfully a few times. have to do it successfully a few times. Um, but I think it starts with setting a Um, but I think it starts with setting a Um, but I think it starts with setting a very very clear set of expectations for very very clear set of expectations for very very clear set of expectations for what the role entails, what the what the role entails, what the what the role entails, what the responsibilities are, and how the role responsibilities are, and how the role responsibilities are, and how the role fits into the big picture of your fits into the big picture of your fits into the big picture of your communication strategy. Yeah. And and communication strategy. Yeah. And and communication strategy. Yeah. And and just go to my BFF Claude to find out just go to my BFF Claude to find out just go to my BFF Claude to find out what those job that job description what those job that job description what those job that job description looks like. So chat GPT go there and say looks like. So chat GPT go there and say looks like. So chat GPT go there and say help me write a position for a church help me write a position for a church help me write a position for a church that's you know for a photographer at a that's you know for a photographer at a that's you know for a photographer at a church and blah blah blah and let it church and blah blah blah and let it church and blah blah blah and let it spit out what you should what you should spit out what you should what you should spit out what you should what you should post. So start there and and see what AI post. So start there and and see what AI post. So start there and and see what AI takes you to. I'm sorry. I'm I'm looking takes you to. I'm sorry. I'm I'm looking takes you to. I'm sorry. I'm I'm looking up right now that podcast episode that up right now that podcast episode that up right now that podcast episode that was in my head that slipped my mind like was in my head that slipped my mind like was in my head that slipped my mind like oh it was Ben Stapely. That's who we did oh it was Ben Stapely. That's who we did oh it was Ben Stapely. That's who we did it with. Ben Yeah. Yeah. Ben Ben it with. Ben Yeah. Yeah. Ben Ben it with. Ben Yeah. Yeah. Ben Ben Stapely. We did a great we did a great Stapely. We did a great we did a great Stapely. We did a great we did a great podcast episode uh with Ben Stapely on podcast episode uh with Ben Stapely on podcast episode uh with Ben Stapely on photography, telling your church's story photography, telling your church's story photography, telling your church's story through photos and we talked a lot about through photos and we talked a lot about through photos and we talked a lot about volunteers. So yeah, I was like I was volunteers. So yeah, I was like I was volunteers. So yeah, I was like I was like there's something there. But we've like there's something there. But we've like there's something there. But we've done a lot and it's and we're at the end done a lot and it's and we're at the end done a lot and it's and we're at the end of the week and my brain is a little bit of the week and my brain is a little bit of the week and my brain is a little bit mushy. Okay, hopefully that was good.

mushy. Okay, hopefully that was good. mushy. Okay, hopefully that was good. All right, last topic for this week's All right, last topic for this week's All right, last topic for this week's episode. Uh here's the other comment or episode. Uh here's the other comment or episode. Uh here's the other comment or question that was uh submitted in the question that was uh submitted in the question that was uh submitted in the church communications group. Okay, need church communications group. Okay, need church communications group. Okay, need some advice slashinput, please. How do some advice slashinput, please. How do some advice slashinput, please. How do we get people to connect? That's in we get people to connect? That's in we get people to connect? That's in quotes. Without sounding like we are quotes. Without sounding like we are quotes. Without sounding like we are begging. We've had connect cards, begging. We've had connect cards, begging. We've had connect cards, digital and physical for a while. We digital and physical for a while. We digital and physical for a while. We have several families who have been here have several families who have been here have several families who have been here 3 to four months and some almost a year 3 to four months and some almost a year 3 to four months and some almost a year who have never connected. who have never connected. who have never connected. Huh. Well, let me let me start before Huh. Well, let me let me start before Huh. Well, let me let me start before you answer and say, by the way, you answer and say, by the way, you answer and say, by the way, universal problem. Every church is universal problem. Every church is universal problem. Every church is wrestling with the same challenge here. wrestling with the same challenge here. wrestling with the same challenge here. What are your thoughts there, J? Well, I What are your thoughts there, J? Well, I What are your thoughts there, J? Well, I kind of like you just took the words kind of like you just took the words kind of like you just took the words right out of my mouth. It's a universal right out of my mouth. It's a universal right out of my mouth. It's a universal problem. It's never going to stop. Uh problem. It's never going to stop. Uh problem. It's never going to stop. Uh maybe maybe facial recognition will help maybe maybe facial recognition will help maybe maybe facial recognition will help some. But um yeah, it's one of those some. But um yeah, it's one of those some. But um yeah, it's one of those things where you you have to I mean it's things where you you have to I mean it's things where you you have to I mean it's not begging, but it's it is asking. So not begging, but it's it is asking. So not begging, but it's it is asking. So So some people just want to stay this So some people just want to stay this So some people just want to stay this way. Okay, we have to be okay with that.

way. Okay, we have to be okay with that. way. Okay, we have to be okay with that. You just want to hide and we don't know You just want to hide and we don't know You just want to hide and we don't know where they are in their spiritual where they are in their spiritual where they are in their spiritual journey. um maybe they were really journey. um maybe they were really journey. um maybe they were really burned by a church or they're just it's burned by a church or they're just it's burned by a church or they're just it's it's a messy situation because we're it's a messy situation because we're it's a messy situation because we're humans and well this is we you know this humans and well this is we you know this humans and well this is we you know this is all we God's got to work with is us is all we God's got to work with is us is all we God's got to work with is us humans. So sometimes people just want to humans. So sometimes people just want to humans. So sometimes people just want to hide and we have to let them. Uh but I hide and we have to let them. Uh but I hide and we have to let them. Uh but I think if you if you give opportunities think if you if you give opportunities think if you if you give opportunities for people uh to kind of raise their for people uh to kind of raise their for people uh to kind of raise their hand digitally that's important. So, one hand digitally that's important. So, one hand digitally that's important. So, one opportunity would be a survey. You know, opportunity would be a survey. You know, opportunity would be a survey. You know, in the in the church, you you say, "Hey, in the in the church, you you say, "Hey, in the in the church, you you say, "Hey, hey, it's once a year. We always want to hey, it's once a year. We always want to hey, it's once a year. We always want to do kind of a sort of a disciplehip do kind of a sort of a disciplehip do kind of a sort of a disciplehip survey. So, would you mind taking just a survey. So, would you mind taking just a survey. So, would you mind taking just a couple minutes and and uh see this QR couple minutes and and uh see this QR couple minutes and and uh see this QR code? Go ahead and scan that in and just code? Go ahead and scan that in and just code? Go ahead and scan that in and just enter your name and email and um answer enter your name and email and um answer enter your name and email and um answer these four questions. It's going to these four questions. It's going to these four questions. It's going to really help our team help you, right? really help our team help you, right? really help our team help you, right? Something like that is I see churches do Something like that is I see churches do Something like that is I see churches do that every now and then. That's a way of that every now and then. That's a way of that every now and then. That's a way of getting a new name and a new email. getting a new name and a new email. getting a new name and a new email. You'd be like, "Oh, those people were You'd be like, "Oh, those people were You'd be like, "Oh, those people were not in our database before." Wow, that's not in our database before." Wow, that's not in our database before." Wow, that's pretty cool. So, that's one thing. Uh, pretty cool. So, that's one thing. Uh, pretty cool. So, that's one thing. Uh, another thing would be just simply, hey, another thing would be just simply, hey, another thing would be just simply, hey, we would, my church does this, uh, you we would, my church does this, uh, you we would, my church does this, uh, you know, we're about to have Easter know, we're about to have Easter know, we're about to have Easter services. As we said, they want you to services. As we said, they want you to services. As we said, they want you to RSVP. Now, they want you to RSVP not RSVP. Now, they want you to RSVP not RSVP. Now, they want you to RSVP not because, uh, they want to know your because, uh, they want to know your because, uh, they want to know your information, although that's the benefit information, although that's the benefit information, although that's the benefit of it. It's really to help manage, you of it. It's really to help manage, you of it. It's really to help manage, you know, crowd control because this pretty know, crowd control because this pretty know, crowd control because this pretty big church and our our our worship big church and our our our worship big church and our our our worship centers are the worst church has one of centers are the worst church has one of centers are the worst church has one of the worst parking lots ever. So, yeah,

the worst parking lots ever. So, yeah, the worst parking lots ever. So, yeah, it does. So, we don't have a plan. So, it does. So, we don't have a plan. So, it does. So, we don't have a plan. So, you have to you have to have a plan. you have to you have to have a plan. you have to you have to have a plan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to have a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to have a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to have a plan. So, we try to crowd control. Well, plan. So, we try to crowd control. Well, plan. So, we try to crowd control. Well, we ask people to RSVP. They have to give we ask people to RSVP. They have to give we ask people to RSVP. They have to give us their name and email and how many in us their name and email and how many in us their name and email and how many in their, you know, are going to attend. their, you know, are going to attend. their, you know, are going to attend. That kind of thing, right? Choose a That kind of thing, right? Choose a That kind of thing, right? Choose a service. So that's a that's a little so service. So that's a that's a little so service. So that's a that's a little so it's kind of a uh I don't want to say it's kind of a uh I don't want to say it's kind of a uh I don't want to say the word trick, but it's kind of a the word trick, but it's kind of a the word trick, but it's kind of a unique uh way to allow you know to allow unique uh way to allow you know to allow unique uh way to allow you know to allow people to raise their hand and tell you people to raise their hand and tell you people to raise their hand and tell you who they are without really feeling like who they are without really feeling like who they are without really feeling like will you please just tell us who you are will you please just tell us who you are will you please just tell us who you are so we can make our numbers look better. so we can make our numbers look better. so we can make our numbers look better. Like that's not what you want. T-shirt, Like that's not what you want. T-shirt, Like that's not what you want. T-shirt, we'll give you a coffee cup. No, that we'll give you a coffee cup. No, that we'll give you a coffee cup. No, that doesn't work. Don't do that. People doesn't work. Don't do that. People doesn't work. Don't do that. People don't care about that stuff. So yeah. Um don't care about that stuff. So yeah. Um don't care about that stuff. So yeah. Um and then just constantly asking them, and then just constantly asking them, and then just constantly asking them, hey, go to the connection. We'd love to hey, go to the connection. We'd love to hey, go to the connection. We'd love to if you have a starting point class or if you have a starting point class or if you have a starting point class or something like that, some sort of a something like that, some sort of a something like that, some sort of a short, you know, class, you know, always short, you know, class, you know, always short, you know, class, you know, always encouraging people to go there. But you encouraging people to go there. But you encouraging people to go there. But you have to recognize as much as you ask, have to recognize as much as you ask, have to recognize as much as you ask, you can't force people to. They want to you can't force people to. They want to you can't force people to. They want to they want to remain unknown. And that's they want to remain unknown. And that's they want to remain unknown. And that's okay. We have to be okay with that. I okay. We have to be okay with that. I okay. We have to be okay with that. I coach churches in this this space all coach churches in this this space all coach churches in this this space all the time. We'll call it their engagement the time. We'll call it their engagement the time. We'll call it their engagement pathway or their assimilation strategy.

pathway or their assimilation strategy. pathway or their assimilation strategy. Um, for starters, I'm going to just Um, for starters, I'm going to just Um, for starters, I'm going to just there there was a red flag that went up there there was a red flag that went up there there was a red flag that went up for me when I read this question, and for me when I read this question, and for me when I read this question, and that is this. We have several families that is this. We have several families that is this. We have several families who've been here for 3 to four months who've been here for 3 to four months who've been here for 3 to four months who've never connected. I am going to who've never connected. I am going to who've never connected. I am going to assume that if there are families, we're assume that if there are families, we're assume that if there are families, we're talking about families with kids, and if talking about families with kids, and if talking about families with kids, and if you have a children's ministry program, you have a children's ministry program, you have a children's ministry program, you should have a check-in system for you should have a check-in system for you should have a check-in system for your children's ministry. That's if your your children's ministry. That's if your your children's ministry. That's if your church is reaching families, there's no church is reaching families, there's no church is reaching families, there's no way around them not giving you their way around them not giving you their way around them not giving you their information if you're signing kids in to information if you're signing kids in to information if you're signing kids in to children's ministry. So, start there. children's ministry. So, start there. children's ministry. So, start there. That will eliminate a lot of that That will eliminate a lot of that That will eliminate a lot of that anonymity because people are entrusting anonymity because people are entrusting anonymity because people are entrusting their kids with you and they shouldn't their kids with you and they shouldn't their kids with you and they shouldn't be anonymous. You should have their be anonymous. You should have their be anonymous. You should have their contact information. You should have contact information. You should have contact information. You should have details about their child and allergies details about their child and allergies details about their child and allergies and, you know, things like that. So, so and, you know, things like that. So, so and, you know, things like that. So, so start there. Um, you kind of glossed start there. Um, you kind of glossed start there. Um, you kind of glossed over this, but I actually think it's the over this, but I actually think it's the over this, but I actually think it's the most important part for churches, which most important part for churches, which most important part for churches, which is having a first step for every is having a first step for every is having a first step for every newcomer. And the first step is not stop newcomer. And the first step is not stop newcomer. And the first step is not stop at the information center or get a free at the information center or get a free at the information center or get a free t-shirt. It is a connection point of t-shirt. It is a connection point of t-shirt. It is a connection point of some sort that gets them into your some sort that gets them into your some sort that gets them into your disciplehip pathway or into your disciplehip pathway or into your disciplehip pathway or into your assimilation strategy. Now, I I stole assimilation strategy. Now, I I stole assimilation strategy. Now, I I stole this. I've shared this with churches this. I've shared this with churches this. I've shared this with churches many many times and I this I think this many many times and I this I think this many many times and I this I think this is a Rick Warrenism but Rick Warren says is a Rick Warrenism but Rick Warren says is a Rick Warrenism but Rick Warren says if you want maximum momentum with people if you want maximum momentum with people if you want maximum momentum with people your first call to action needs to be a your first call to action needs to be a your first call to action needs to be a low vision low commitment call to action low vision low commitment call to action low vision low commitment call to action and from there you move to a high vision

and from there you move to a high vision and from there you move to a high vision high commitment call to action. So for high commitment call to action. So for high commitment call to action. So for instance we are going to do every month instance we are going to do every month instance we are going to do every month or every couple of months pizza with the or every couple of months pizza with the or every couple of months pizza with the pastor after the service. And we're not pastor after the service. And we're not pastor after the service. And we're not asking you to fill out the connection asking you to fill out the connection asking you to fill out the connection card because you're new. We're asking card because you're new. We're asking card because you're new. We're asking you to fill out the connection card you to fill out the connection card you to fill out the connection card because if you're new and you're ready because if you're new and you're ready because if you're new and you're ready to take your next steps, we want to to take your next steps, we want to to take your next steps, we want to invite you to pizza with the pastor invite you to pizza with the pastor invite you to pizza with the pastor after the service. And we're going to after the service. And we're going to after the service. And we're going to have that on the calendar regularly. have that on the calendar regularly. have that on the calendar regularly. Maybe it's once a month, maybe it's once Maybe it's once a month, maybe it's once Maybe it's once a month, maybe it's once a quarter. But people know, hey, if I'm a quarter. But people know, hey, if I'm a quarter. But people know, hey, if I'm going to attend pizza with the pastor, I going to attend pizza with the pastor, I going to attend pizza with the pastor, I need to RSVP because they need to know need to RSVP because they need to know need to RSVP because they need to know that I'm coming so that they have food that I'm coming so that they have food that I'm coming so that they have food for me. That is a low vision, low for me. That is a low vision, low for me. That is a low vision, low commitment call to action. You're not commitment call to action. You're not commitment call to action. You're not asking them to become members. You're asking them to become members. You're asking them to become members. You're not asking them to sign up for a not asking them to sign up for a not asking them to sign up for a ministry. You're not asking them to take ministry. You're not asking them to take ministry. You're not asking them to take a class about Jesus. You're asking them a class about Jesus. You're asking them a class about Jesus. You're asking them to come and eat, get to know the pastor. to come and eat, get to know the pastor. to come and eat, get to know the pastor. Low vision, low commitment. Now, at that Low vision, low commitment. Now, at that Low vision, low commitment. Now, at that engagement, the pastor is then going to engagement, the pastor is then going to engagement, the pastor is then going to cast a higher vision and call for cast a higher vision and call for cast a higher vision and call for greater commitment. Sharing a little bit greater commitment. Sharing a little bit greater commitment. Sharing a little bit of the vision, maybe talk about small of the vision, maybe talk about small of the vision, maybe talk about small groups or Bible study or serving in a groups or Bible study or serving in a groups or Bible study or serving in a ministry or membership or whatever is ministry or membership or whatever is ministry or membership or whatever is appropriate for your church. But you appropriate for your church. But you appropriate for your church. But you need to give people a reason to give you need to give people a reason to give you need to give people a reason to give you their information. Hi, if you're new, their information. Hi, if you're new, their information. Hi, if you're new, we'd love to connect with you. We'd love we'd love to connect with you. We'd love we'd love to connect with you. We'd love to call you sometimes. we'd love to put to call you sometimes. we'd love to put to call you sometimes. we'd love to put your email in our massive email list so your email in our massive email list so your email in our massive email list so we can send you our newsletter every we can send you our newsletter every we can send you our newsletter every week. Nobody's going to respond for week. Nobody's going to respond for week. Nobody's going to respond for that. But what they will say is, and I that. But what they will say is, and I that. But what they will say is, and I and I use this language as well. It's and I use this language as well. It's and I use this language as well. It's not if you're a firsttime guest, but if not if you're a firsttime guest, but if not if you're a firsttime guest, but if you're new, and by the way, if you've you're new, and by the way, if you've you're new, and by the way, if you've never attended pizza with the pastor, never attended pizza with the pastor, never attended pizza with the pastor, we're just going to consider you new we're just going to consider you new we're just going to consider you new until you do. That's how you break

until you do. That's how you break until you do. That's how you break through the new barrier. So, if you've through the new barrier. So, if you've through the new barrier. So, if you've never attended our pizza with the never attended our pizza with the never attended our pizza with the pastor, you've been coming to the church pastor, you've been coming to the church pastor, you've been coming to the church for a while, we'd love to invite you to for a while, we'd love to invite you to for a while, we'd love to invite you to this so we can help you take your next this so we can help you take your next this so we can help you take your next steps into our community, that's what steps into our community, that's what steps into our community, that's what we're asking them to exchange the we're asking them to exchange the we're asking them to exchange the information for. And so, I found over information for. And so, I found over information for. And so, I found over and over again with churches that when and over again with churches that when and over again with churches that when you change the call to action from give you change the call to action from give you change the call to action from give us your information because we want it us your information because we want it us your information because we want it to, hey, we want to invite you to this to, hey, we want to invite you to this to, hey, we want to invite you to this thing. Give us your information. Oh, and thing. Give us your information. Oh, and thing. Give us your information. Oh, and by the way, when you're at that thing, by the way, when you're at that thing, by the way, when you're at that thing, we can actually get even more we can actually get even more we can actually get even more information from you. We can get your information from you. We can get your information from you. We can get your birthday. We can get your address. we birthday. We can get your address. we birthday. We can get your address. we can get all the stuff that we want for can get all the stuff that we want for can get all the stuff that we want for our church management software and that our church management software and that our church management software and that will actually increase the percentage of will actually increase the percentage of will actually increase the percentage of people that will fill it out. But you're people that will fill it out. But you're people that will fill it out. But you're right, Jason, not everyone will. There right, Jason, not everyone will. There right, Jason, not everyone will. There are some people that are going to sit on are some people that are going to sit on are some people that are going to sit on the back row and never give you their the back row and never give you their the back row and never give you their information for as long as they're at information for as long as they're at information for as long as they're at the church. Yeah. And there another the church. Yeah. And there another the church. Yeah. And there another another if you want to another if you want to another if you want to if you want to help people not have to if you want to help people not have to if you want to help people not have to be known in terms of their face or shake be known in terms of their face or shake be known in terms of their face or shake a hand, just have them text the word a hand, just have them text the word a hand, just have them text the word new. We do that at church. So text the new. We do that at church. So text the new. We do that at church. So text the word new to 48,000. That's actually the, word new to 48,000. That's actually the, word new to 48,000. That's actually the, you know, the the digits. And when you you know, the the digits. And when you you know, the the digits. And when you do that, all you're basically doing is do that, all you're basically doing is do that, all you're basically doing is just allowing the church to kind of know just allowing the church to kind of know just allowing the church to kind of know a little bit. At least we know who a little bit. At least we know who a little bit. At least we know who you're you're mobile, right? And then you're you're mobile, right? And then you're you're mobile, right? And then and then they do a really nice job of and then they do a really nice job of and then they do a really nice job of gradually, hey, you know, click here if gradually, hey, you know, click here if gradually, hey, you know, click here if you want to just make yourself known a you want to just make yourself known a you want to just make yourself known a little bit. And so it's just a gradual little bit. And so it's just a gradual little bit. And so it's just a gradual way. But see, that's such a cuz just way. But see, that's such a cuz just way. But see, that's such a cuz just about anybody will will will do that about anybody will will will do that about anybody will will will do that because if you know my mobile number, because if you know my mobile number, because if you know my mobile number, which I mean it gets sold anyway, you which I mean it gets sold anyway, you which I mean it gets sold anyway, you know, that's not a very big that's not a know, that's not a very big that's not a know, that's not a very big that's not a that's I mean coming to meet the pastor

that's I mean coming to meet the pastor that's I mean coming to meet the pastor to have pizza definitely is a okay, I'm to have pizza definitely is a okay, I'm to have pizza definitely is a okay, I'm saying who I am, which is still very saying who I am, which is still very saying who I am, which is still very it's very low entry, but even lower than it's very low entry, but even lower than it's very low entry, but even lower than that would be just text the word I'm new that would be just text the word I'm new that would be just text the word I'm new to this number and let us send you some to this number and let us send you some to this number and let us send you some information. At least maybe you could information. At least maybe you could information. At least maybe you could start there if that if you don't have start there if that if you don't have start there if that if you don't have like you said if you don't have like you said if you don't have like you said if you don't have something for children's check-in you something for children's check-in you something for children's check-in you need that uh if you don't have something need that uh if you don't have something need that uh if you don't have something for the pastors you need that and maybe for the pastors you need that and maybe for the pastors you need that and maybe you have a texting way of of just you have a texting way of of just you have a texting way of of just getting to capture some information. So getting to capture some information. So getting to capture some information. So hopefully that helps you. Yeah. Yeah. hopefully that helps you. Yeah. Yeah. hopefully that helps you. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a couple other thoughts before I've got a couple other thoughts before I've got a couple other thoughts before we wrap this up. If you're a smaller we wrap this up. If you're a smaller we wrap this up. If you're a smaller church which I would assume that or or church which I would assume that or or church which I would assume that or or normalsized church we'll say normalized normalsized church we'll say normalized normalsized church we'll say normalized church. Um, a lot of a lot of church. Um, a lot of a lot of church. Um, a lot of a lot of normalsized churches, actually, I even normalsized churches, actually, I even normalsized churches, actually, I even know a couple of larger churches that know a couple of larger churches that know a couple of larger churches that still pass an offering plate or an still pass an offering plate or an still pass an offering plate or an offering bag during your services. What offering bag during your services. What offering bag during your services. What I always communicate if we're passing I always communicate if we're passing I always communicate if we're passing the offering plate or the offering the offering plate or the offering the offering plate or the offering bucket, they use buckets at Life Church, bucket, they use buckets at Life Church, bucket, they use buckets at Life Church, like chicken buckets. If they're passing like chicken buckets. If they're passing like chicken buckets. If they're passing if they're passing a bucket, I would say if they're passing a bucket, I would say if they're passing a bucket, I would say this. If you're new, we have no this. If you're new, we have no this. If you're new, we have no expectations for you to give us money.

expectations for you to give us money. expectations for you to give us money. But if you took the time to fill out But if you took the time to fill out But if you took the time to fill out that connection card that's in the seat that connection card that's in the seat that connection card that's in the seat in front of you, that's what you can put in front of you, that's what you can put in front of you, that's what you can put in the bucket or the bag or the plate in the bucket or the bag or the plate in the bucket or the bag or the plate when it passes by. That's your when it passes by. That's your when it passes by. That's your contribution to our church today is just contribution to our church today is just contribution to our church today is just sharing with us a little bit of sharing with us a little bit of sharing with us a little bit of information about who you are and how we information about who you are and how we information about who you are and how we might be able to support you and your might be able to support you and your might be able to support you and your family. I've got a couple of smaller family. I've got a couple of smaller family. I've got a couple of smaller churches that I've done some work with churches that I've done some work with churches that I've done some work with that they have everybody, every person that they have everybody, every person that they have everybody, every person in the church fill out a connection card in the church fill out a connection card in the church fill out a connection card every week. So when the new people don't every week. So when the new people don't every week. So when the new people don't do it, they are they're the odd men out do it, they are they're the odd men out do it, they are they're the odd men out rather than because what you if you rather than because what you if you rather than because what you if you think about it, you're sitting in a room think about it, you're sitting in a room think about it, you're sitting in a room of 100 people or 300 people or 800 of 100 people or 300 people or 800 of 100 people or 300 people or 800 people and you're looking around and people and you're looking around and people and you're looking around and nobody else is filling out the card. nobody else is filling out the card. nobody else is filling out the card. That's a little awkward, right? It's it That's a little awkward, right? It's it That's a little awkward, right? It's it signals to all the people sitting around signals to all the people sitting around signals to all the people sitting around you that you're the new person because you that you're the new person because you that you're the new person because you're filling out the card. Whereas if you're filling out the card. Whereas if you're filling out the card. Whereas if everybody grabs a card and everybody everybody grabs a card and everybody everybody grabs a card and everybody fills out a card and everybody puts that fills out a card and everybody puts that fills out a card and everybody puts that card in the offering plate or in the box card in the offering plate or in the box card in the offering plate or in the box in the back on the way out, now I'm in the back on the way out, now I'm in the back on the way out, now I'm normal. I'm part of the crowd. Those are normal. I'm part of the crowd. Those are normal. I'm part of the crowd. Those are a couple of things that I know other a couple of things that I know other a couple of things that I know other churches have done. I'm not saying that churches have done. I'm not saying that churches have done. I'm not saying that I think those are the best ideas, but I think those are the best ideas, but I think those are the best ideas, but they are ideas that maybe in your they are ideas that maybe in your they are ideas that maybe in your context something like that would work.

context something like that would work. context something like that would work. Yeah. Yep. Agreed. Any parting shots for Yeah. Yep. Agreed. Any parting shots for Yeah. Yep. Agreed. Any parting shots for our friends out there in podcast land, our friends out there in podcast land, our friends out there in podcast land, Jason? No, but just uh hey, those kinds Jason? No, but just uh hey, those kinds Jason? No, but just uh hey, those kinds of questions are great. We love to just of questions are great. We love to just of questions are great. We love to just kind of unpack those and give you our kind of unpack those and give you our kind of unpack those and give you our advice. And you know, Bart and I have advice. And you know, Bart and I have advice. And you know, Bart and I have combined decades of ministry experience. combined decades of ministry experience. combined decades of ministry experience. too too many too many decades to count. too too many too many decades to count. too too many too many decades to count. But it's it's uh it's just no it's an But it's it's uh it's just no it's an But it's it's uh it's just no it's an honor. Thank you for you know asking honor. Thank you for you know asking honor. Thank you for you know asking these kinds of questions people would these kinds of questions people would these kinds of questions people would love to be able to support and share our love to be able to support and share our love to be able to support and share our advice and hopefully this is something advice and hopefully this is something advice and hopefully this is something you can take and and run with. So you can take and and run with. So you can take and and run with. So thanks. Yeah. And just a reminder uh if thanks. Yeah. And just a reminder uh if thanks. Yeah. And just a reminder uh if you're not in the church communications you're not in the church communications you're not in the church communications Facebook group, this is the kind of Facebook group, this is the kind of Facebook group, this is the kind of stuff that people are engaging in all stuff that people are engaging in all stuff that people are engaging in all the time. So you should jump over to the time. So you should jump over to the time. So you should jump over to Facebook, join the church communications Facebook, join the church communications Facebook, join the church communications Facebook group. And hey, if you have Facebook group. And hey, if you have Facebook group. And hey, if you have future questions, just ask them there. future questions, just ask them there. future questions, just ask them there. and you've got a world full of and you've got a world full of and you've got a world full of colleagues and co- ministers who can colleagues and co- ministers who can colleagues and co- ministers who can answer your questions maybe even better answer your questions maybe even better answer your questions maybe even better than Jason and I do. Um, one last thing, than Jason and I do. Um, one last thing, than Jason and I do. Um, one last thing, if you've made it all the way to the end if you've made it all the way to the end if you've made it all the way to the end of this podcast episode and you haven't of this podcast episode and you haven't of this podcast episode and you haven't ever subscribed wherever you listen to ever subscribed wherever you listen to ever subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, please make sure your favorite podcast, please make sure your favorite podcast, please make sure that you do that. And if you're watching that you do that. And if you're watching that you do that. And if you're watching on our YouTube channel, you engage with on our YouTube channel, you engage with on our YouTube channel, you engage with us, you can engage with this with us us, you can engage with this with us us, you can engage with this with us there. You can subscribe to the channel.

there. You can subscribe to the channel. there. You can subscribe to the channel. You can leave a comment. Love to love to You can leave a comment. Love to love to You can leave a comment. Love to love to engage with you there. Um, in the engage with you there. Um, in the engage with you there. Um, in the meantime, uh, hope that your spring meantime, uh, hope that your spring meantime, uh, hope that your spring season is going well and, uh, we'll look season is going well and, uh, we'll look season is going well and, uh, we'll look forward to seeing you on another episode forward to seeing you on another episode forward to seeing you on another episode of the Mission Marketing Podcast.