Building a Killer Team | Shawn Lovejoy

you know we've talked for years about you know we've talked for years about coaching leaders through what keeps them coaching leaders through what keeps them coaching leaders through what keeps them awake at night awake at night awake at night and the number one threat I've seen 20 and the number one threat I've seen 20 and the number one threat I've seen 20 years number one tension that will keep years number one tension that will keep years number one tension that will keep you awake at night are people tensions you awake at night are people tensions you awake at night are people tensions and I stayed in the book the two biggest and I stayed in the book the two biggest and I stayed in the book the two biggest lies from hell ever believed when we get lies from hell ever believed when we get lies from hell ever believed when we get to here it'll be easier to here it'll be easier to here it'll be easier and when I hire this next person it'll and when I hire this next person it'll and when I hire this next person it'll solve all our problems solve all our problems solve all our problems [Music] [Music] [Music] and they're both myths you know it gets and they're both myths you know it gets and they're both myths you know it gets more complicated there's more more complicated there's more more complicated there's more personalities there's more personalities there's more personalities there's more responsibility you know all of that and responsibility you know all of that and responsibility you know all of that and so this was in a desire we talk about so this was in a desire we talk about so this was in a desire we talk about the gears of growth culture team and the gears of growth culture team and the gears of growth culture team and system in our coaching this wasn't a system in our coaching this wasn't a system in our coaching this wasn't a desire to really make public this desire to really make public this desire to really make public this framework we have been coaching on and framework we have been coaching on and framework we have been coaching on and around for years around for years around for years called the killer team framework called the killer team framework called the killer team framework welcome to season three episode three of welcome to season three episode three of welcome to season three episode three of the missional marketing podcast my name the missional marketing podcast my name the missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair I'm the co-host of the is Bart Blair I'm the co-host of the is Bart Blair I'm the co-host of the show and I want to thank you for tuning show and I want to thank you for tuning show and I want to thank you for tuning in whether you're watching this on our in whether you're watching this on our in whether you're watching this on our YouTube channel or uh listening to it on YouTube channel or uh listening to it on YouTube channel or uh listening to it on your favorite podcasting app if you your favorite podcasting app if you your favorite podcasting app if you haven't subscribed we want to remind you haven't subscribed we want to remind you haven't subscribed we want to remind you to do that and if you haven't left us a to do that and if you haven't left us a to do that and if you haven't left us a rating a review make sure that you do so rating a review make sure that you do so rating a review make sure that you do so our goal is to help your church grow by our goal is to help your church grow by our goal is to help your church grow by leveraging effective Communications and leveraging effective Communications and leveraging effective Communications and digital marketing we want to help you digital marketing we want to help you digital marketing we want to help you expand your digital footprint in your expand your digital footprint in your expand your digital footprint in your community so that you can reach more community so that you can reach more community so that you can reach more people for Jesus and if this podcast is people for Jesus and if this podcast is people for Jesus and if this podcast is helping you do that we love the feedback helping you do that we love the feedback helping you do that we love the feedback let us know and please make sure that let us know and please make sure that let us know and please make sure that you share it with friends and other you share it with friends and other you share it with friends and other Ministry leaders that you know who you Ministry leaders that you know who you Ministry leaders that you know who you think might be able to benefit from the think might be able to benefit from the think might be able to benefit from the content that we are creating today we content that we are creating today we content that we are creating today we have a guest who is a return guest on have a guest who is a return guest on have a guest who is a return guest on our show Mr Sean Lovejoy uh when we

our show Mr Sean Lovejoy uh when we our show Mr Sean Lovejoy uh when we interviewed him actually Jason interviewed him actually Jason interviewed him actually Jason interviewed him and the first season of interviewed him and the first season of interviewed him and the first season of our podcast and Jason walked away from our podcast and Jason walked away from our podcast and Jason walked away from it saying I get to have that guy on it saying I get to have that guy on it saying I get to have that guy on again uh he learned so much in his first again uh he learned so much in his first again uh he learned so much in his first interview with uh Sean weesa said we'll interview with uh Sean weesa said we'll interview with uh Sean weesa said we'll bring Sean back for another interview so bring Sean back for another interview so bring Sean back for another interview so Jason can learn more about being in fact Jason can learn more about being in fact Jason can learn more about being in fact of leader that's partially true of leader that's partially true of leader that's partially true partially the reason that we brought partially the reason that we brought partially the reason that we brought Sean back onto the show is that he's Sean back onto the show is that he's Sean back onto the show is that he's recently released a new book called recently released a new book called recently released a new book called building a killer team and we thought building a killer team and we thought building a killer team and we thought this would be such a great conversation this would be such a great conversation this would be such a great conversation for our friends and our family in the for our friends and our family in the for our friends and our family in the church world people who are building church world people who are building church world people who are building Ministry teams I think that you're Ministry teams I think that you're Ministry teams I think that you're really going to enjoy this conversation really going to enjoy this conversation really going to enjoy this conversation so again thanks again for tuning in to so again thanks again for tuning in to so again thanks again for tuning in to the show and here's the CEO of missional the show and here's the CEO of missional the show and here's the CEO of missional marketing Jason Hamrock with Sean marketing Jason Hamrock with Sean marketing Jason Hamrock with Sean Lovejoy well Sean welcome back to the show so well Sean welcome back to the show so good to see you how you doing Jason good to see you how you doing Jason good to see you how you doing Jason great to see you guys love what you guys great to see you guys love what you guys great to see you guys love what you guys do and um I love everyone but I like you do and um I love everyone but I like you do and um I love everyone but I like you guys guys guys [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] well well well feeling's mutual feeling's mutual feeling's mutual thanks for thanks for being on here I I thanks for thanks for being on here I I thanks for thanks for being on here I I know you got a lot going on and and um know you got a lot going on and and um know you got a lot going on and and um so glad to have you back because we're so glad to have you back because we're so glad to have you back because we're gonna we're gonna dive into your brand gonna we're gonna dive into your brand gonna we're gonna dive into your brand new book uh but before we do that give new book uh but before we do that give new book uh but before we do that give our uh um listeners just a quick update our uh um listeners just a quick update our uh um listeners just a quick update on on your story your ministry what on on your story your ministry what on on your story your ministry what you've been up to and also talk about you've been up to and also talk about you've been up to and also talk about this thing called courage to lead this thing called courage to lead this thing called courage to lead coaching Services what's that all about coaching Services what's that all about coaching Services what's that all about so I'll hand it off to you yeah so you so I'll hand it off to you yeah so you so I'll hand it off to you yeah so you know for people who don't know who I am know for people who don't know who I am know for people who don't know who I am or my story I was a real estate or my story I was a real estate or my story I was a real estate developer turn church planter turned

developer turn church planter turned developer turn church planter turned mega church pastor turn coach mega church pastor turn coach mega church pastor turn coach and um uh I began coaching pastors 20 and um uh I began coaching pastors 20 and um uh I began coaching pastors 20 years ago just kind of how to get better years ago just kind of how to get better years ago just kind of how to get better between Sundays and how to become a between Sundays and how to become a between Sundays and how to become a better leader and better leader and better leader and how to build a good team and simple how to build a good team and simple how to build a good team and simple systems that can scale and all of that systems that can scale and all of that systems that can scale and all of that stuff always feel like a business guy or stuff always feel like a business guy or stuff always feel like a business guy or an executive Pastor trapped in a senior an executive Pastor trapped in a senior an executive Pastor trapped in a senior pastor's body and pastor's body and pastor's body and um just had a knack for coaching so much um just had a knack for coaching so much um just had a knack for coaching so much so I recognized that desire and so I recognized that desire and so I recognized that desire and gift about myself much better than my gift about myself much better than my gift about myself much better than my preaching you know I I made the second preaching you know I I made the second preaching you know I I made the second scariest decision of my life to hand off scariest decision of my life to hand off scariest decision of my life to hand off the church I birthed in my living room the church I birthed in my living room the church I birthed in my living room you know and try to go all in on this you know and try to go all in on this you know and try to go all in on this coaching thing seven years ago as a time coaching thing seven years ago as a time coaching thing seven years ago as a time of this recording and it's just been an of this recording and it's just been an of this recording and it's just been an amazing ride since then we have 20 amazing ride since then we have 20 amazing ride since then we have 20 coaches now we have a Marketplace coaches now we have a Marketplace coaches now we have a Marketplace division which rests at courage to division which rests at courage to division which rests at courage to lead.com and a pastor's division at lead.com and a pastor's division at lead.com and a pastor's division at courageous pastors.com and I'm literally courageous pastors.com and I'm literally courageous pastors.com and I'm literally having the time of my life I have to having the time of my life I have to having the time of my life I have to pinch myself on a weekly basis and when pinch myself on a weekly basis and when pinch myself on a weekly basis and when you're running in your lane and you know you're running in your lane and you know you're running in your lane and you know God's using you for something God's using you for something God's using you for something significant you know you you literally significant you know you you literally significant you know you you literally have to pinch yourself and that's the have to pinch yourself and that's the have to pinch yourself and that's the way I live and breathe these days yeah way I live and breathe these days yeah way I live and breathe these days yeah isn't that the goal for everyone to kind isn't that the goal for everyone to kind isn't that the goal for everyone to kind of find that sweet spot yeah of find that sweet spot yeah of find that sweet spot yeah it's an honor I call it your spiritual it's an honor I call it your spiritual it's an honor I call it your spiritual Swagger and I want your every leader to Swagger and I want your every leader to Swagger and I want your every leader to to Steward and maintain or regain to Steward and maintain or regain to Steward and maintain or regain you know their spiritual Swagger that

you know their spiritual Swagger that you know their spiritual Swagger that not not arrogance but that Holy not not arrogance but that Holy not not arrogance but that Holy confidence they're like wait a minute confidence they're like wait a minute confidence they're like wait a minute God called me this and gifted me with God called me this and gifted me with God called me this and gifted me with this and anointed me to do this and I I this and anointed me to do this and I I this and anointed me to do this and I I had value when I do this like there's had value when I do this like there's had value when I do this like there's nothing there's no greater feeling in nothing there's no greater feeling in nothing there's no greater feeling in the world the world the world so so you you do a lot of coaching and so so you you do a lot of coaching and so so you you do a lot of coaching and you mentioned both in the secular you mentioned both in the secular you mentioned both in the secular Marketplace but in with pastors with Marketplace but in with pastors with Marketplace but in with pastors with churches churches churches um is it all kinds of church leaders um is it all kinds of church leaders um is it all kinds of church leaders your XPS or lead pastors or comms or your XPS or lead pastors or comms or your XPS or lead pastors or comms or what's that look like yeah it's all over what's that look like yeah it's all over what's that look like yeah it's all over the map I mean we usually coach a leader the map I mean we usually coach a leader the map I mean we usually coach a leader and or their team you know depending and or their team you know depending and or their team you know depending upon the scope of work but what we do is upon the scope of work but what we do is upon the scope of work but what we do is unique because we're not just delivering unique because we're not just delivering unique because we're not just delivering content we put a coach with a leader and content we put a coach with a leader and content we put a coach with a leader and or their team for a year or more usually or their team for a year or more usually or their team for a year or more usually I mean it's Deep dive you know and walk I mean it's Deep dive you know and walk I mean it's Deep dive you know and walk alongside them but we have we usually alongside them but we have we usually alongside them but we have we usually have a primarily liaison on the team have a primarily liaison on the team have a primarily liaison on the team that we're working with and we're that we're working with and we're that we're working with and we're through that recognizes the need for through that recognizes the need for through that recognizes the need for this this this so sometimes that's senior pastor so sometimes that's senior pastor so sometimes that's senior pastor sometimes it's worship Pastor sometimes sometimes it's worship Pastor sometimes sometimes it's worship Pastor sometimes that's Executive Vice President that's Executive Vice President that's Executive Vice President sometimes that's the CEO sometimes it's sometimes that's the CEO sometimes it's sometimes that's the CEO sometimes it's the worship Pastor you know it just the worship Pastor you know it just the worship Pastor you know it just depends you know depends you know depends you know um and so we're able to pair them up um and so we're able to pair them up um and so we're able to pair them up with a coach regardless with a coach regardless with a coach regardless yeah you know I I see the value in that yeah you know I I see the value in that yeah you know I I see the value in that tremendously because it doesn't matter tremendously because it doesn't matter tremendously because it doesn't matter if you're the seasoned lead Pastor for if you're the seasoned lead Pastor for if you're the seasoned lead Pastor for 30 years or you're brand new everyone 30 years or you're brand new everyone 30 years or you're brand new everyone needs a coach needs a coach needs a coach um you mentioned in your book which um you mentioned in your book which um you mentioned in your book which we're going to get to you actually we're going to get to you actually we're going to get to you actually quoted uh are you put a little section quoted uh are you put a little section quoted uh are you put a little section about Tom Brady like arguably one of the

about Tom Brady like arguably one of the about Tom Brady like arguably one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL who still best quarterbacks in the NFL who still best quarterbacks in the NFL who still has a coach has a coach has a coach and yet you know that's probably the guy and yet you know that's probably the guy and yet you know that's probably the guy who doesn't need one but he still is who doesn't need one but he still is who doesn't need one but he still is yeah I will note that I think you yeah I will note that I think you yeah I will note that I think you referred to him as retired Quarterback referred to him as retired Quarterback referred to him as retired Quarterback Tom Brady in the book which dates the Tom Brady in the book which dates the Tom Brady in the book which dates the five minutes in which the book got five minutes in which the book got five minutes in which the book got published published published because he was retired for five minutes because he was retired for five minutes because he was retired for five minutes so that that you know that's so that that you know that's so that that you know that's um so the coaching aspect of it I think um so the coaching aspect of it I think um so the coaching aspect of it I think is one of those things where I I it is one of those things where I I it is one of those things where I I it seems like Ministry leaders we we just seems like Ministry leaders we we just seems like Ministry leaders we we just don't do that enough because we're so don't do that enough because we're so don't do that enough because we're so busy busy busy focusing on the weekends and getting focusing on the weekends and getting focusing on the weekends and getting ready for Sunday type of a thing that ready for Sunday type of a thing that ready for Sunday type of a thing that um that just kind of we read about it um that just kind of we read about it um that just kind of we read about it but we don't have somebody there walking but we don't have somebody there walking but we don't have somebody there walking besides us with a road map of how to get besides us with a road map of how to get besides us with a road map of how to get better better better you and I talked about it last time I you and I talked about it last time I you and I talked about it last time I was on Jason it's just the after 20 was on Jason it's just the after 20 was on Jason it's just the after 20 years of doing this is still it what was years of doing this is still it what was years of doing this is still it what was the number one mistake 20 years ago is the number one mistake 20 years ago is the number one mistake 20 years ago is still the number one mistake I see still the number one mistake I see still the number one mistake I see leaders make today isolation leaders make today isolation leaders make today isolation isolation isolation isolation and you get isolated and you get isolated and you get isolated you know there's personal detriments but you know there's personal detriments but you know there's personal detriments but there's professional detriments you know there's professional detriments you know there's professional detriments you know um you can skip over another Leader's um you can skip over another Leader's um you can skip over another Leader's pain pain pain if you're if you put yourself in a in a if you're if you put yourself in a in a if you're if you put yourself in a in a learning relationship but if you're learning relationship but if you're learning relationship but if you're isolated you're recreating the will man isolated you're recreating the will man isolated you're recreating the will man you're reliving every other Leader's you're reliving every other Leader's you're reliving every other Leader's pain the hard way you can literally pain the hard way you can literally pain the hard way you can literally shortcut and skip over a Leader's Pain shortcut and skip over a Leader's Pain shortcut and skip over a Leader's Pain by learning from someone who's further by learning from someone who's further by learning from someone who's further ahead than you are I've done it I've ahead than you are I've done it I've ahead than you are I've done it I've lived that that's my testimony

lived that that's my testimony lived that that's my testimony yeah that's so rich okay let's so you yeah that's so rich okay let's so you yeah that's so rich okay let's so you you uh you came out with a new book and you uh you came out with a new book and you uh you came out with a new book and um I would like to talk a little bit um I would like to talk a little bit um I would like to talk a little bit about this book but the title of it is about this book but the title of it is about this book but the title of it is building a killer team building a killer team building a killer team without killing yourself or your team without killing yourself or your team without killing yourself or your team and uh why'd you write this book and and and uh why'd you write this book and and and uh why'd you write this book and and who's the audience for this book who's the audience for this book who's the audience for this book well I talked about the number one well I talked about the number one well I talked about the number one mistake you know we've talked for years mistake you know we've talked for years mistake you know we've talked for years about coaching leaders through what about coaching leaders through what about coaching leaders through what keeps them awake at night keeps them awake at night keeps them awake at night and the number one thread I've seen 20 and the number one thread I've seen 20 and the number one thread I've seen 20 years number one tension that will keep years number one tension that will keep years number one tension that will keep you awake at night are people tensions you awake at night are people tensions you awake at night are people tensions and I stayed in the book two biggest and I stayed in the book two biggest and I stayed in the book two biggest lies from hell ever believed when we get lies from hell ever believed when we get lies from hell ever believed when we get to here it'll be easier to here it'll be easier to here it'll be easier and when I hire this next person it'll and when I hire this next person it'll and when I hire this next person it'll solve all our problems solve all our problems solve all our problems and they're both myths you know it gets and they're both myths you know it gets and they're both myths you know it gets more complicated there's more more complicated there's more more complicated there's more personalities there's more personalities there's more personalities there's more responsibility you know all of that and responsibility you know all of that and responsibility you know all of that and so this was in a desire we talk about so this was in a desire we talk about so this was in a desire we talk about the gears of growth culture team and the gears of growth culture team and the gears of growth culture team and system in our coaching this wasn't a system in our coaching this wasn't a system in our coaching this wasn't a desire to really make public this desire to really make public this desire to really make public this framework we have been coaching on and framework we have been coaching on and framework we have been coaching on and around for years around for years around for years um called the killer team framework we um called the killer team framework we um called the killer team framework we really help people like how to build really help people like how to build really help people like how to build that amazing team you know without that amazing team you know without that amazing team you know without killing them killing them killing them you know or without killing you in the you know or without killing you in the you know or without killing you in the process I fought for the tagline to keep process I fought for the tagline to keep process I fought for the tagline to keep it in there because you know I know guys it in there because you know I know guys it in there because you know I know guys that are all about building the killer that are all about building the killer that are all about building the killer team but they're killing everybody in

team but they're killing everybody in team but they're killing everybody in the process the process the process and killing themselves in the process and killing themselves in the process and killing themselves in the process killing their marriage is in the process killing their marriage is in the process killing their marriage is in the process like I'm not for that you know so yeah like I'm not for that you know so yeah like I'm not for that you know so yeah and we go through everything that's in and we go through everything that's in and we go through everything that's in the book which you know I don't want to the book which you know I don't want to the book which you know I don't want to go through all the chapters a lot of go through all the chapters a lot of go through all the chapters a lot of great chapters in here uh but you know great chapters in here uh but you know great chapters in here uh but you know every every chapter everybody deals with every every chapter everybody deals with every every chapter everybody deals with all this stuff and it almost I would all this stuff and it almost I would all this stuff and it almost I would make the statement hopefully you'll make the statement hopefully you'll make the statement hopefully you'll you'll agree with the statement that it you'll agree with the statement that it you'll agree with the statement that it doesn't matter where you are in the food doesn't matter where you are in the food doesn't matter where you are in the food chain if you will this book will add chain if you will this book will add chain if you will this book will add value to your your career your your value to your your career your your value to your your career your your leadership development because leadership development because leadership development because everybody's leading at some point you're everybody's leading at some point you're everybody's leading at some point you're either leading yourself or you're either leading yourself or you're either leading yourself or you're leading to see a team of people would leading to see a team of people would leading to see a team of people would that be accurate that be accurate that be accurate yeah and they're out you know I have a yeah and they're out you know I have a yeah and they're out you know I have a business administration undergraduate business administration undergraduate business administration undergraduate degree and a master's degree in theology degree and a master's degree in theology degree and a master's degree in theology and I was not taught a single thing in and I was not taught a single thing in and I was not taught a single thing in this book learning on the job learning on the job Sean Define a killer team for us what is Sean Define a killer team for us what is Sean Define a killer team for us what is a killer team great question I'm so glad a killer team great question I'm so glad a killer team great question I'm so glad you asked and my coach told me yesterday you asked and my coach told me yesterday you asked and my coach told me yesterday the best thing I did for the book the best thing I did for the book the best thing I did for the book was to find it on the back cover you was to find it on the back cover you was to find it on the back cover you know the first definition of the word know the first definition of the word know the first definition of the word killer is of course to to kill is to be killer is of course to to kill is to be killer is of course to to kill is to be ruthless to be harsh to murder ruthless to be harsh to murder ruthless to be harsh to murder you know but the the second definition you know but the the second definition you know but the the second definition the adjective description of the book it the adjective description of the book it the adjective description of the book it means to be strikingly impressive or means to be strikingly impressive or means to be strikingly impressive or effective effective effective you know and that's the kind of team I you know and that's the kind of team I you know and that's the kind of team I want to help guys build strikingly want to help guys build strikingly want to help guys build strikingly impressive or effective teams that's a

impressive or effective teams that's a impressive or effective teams that's a killer team killer team killer team do you ever arrive do you ever arrive do you ever arrive no no no I think that's a scary place to be I think that's a scary place to be I think that's a scary place to be when you think you've arrived because when you think you've arrived because when you think you've arrived because it's people you're in the people it's people you're in the people it's people you're in the people business it's it's always messy it's business it's it's always messy it's business it's it's always messy it's always complicated you can always get always complicated you can always get always complicated you can always get better you can always get better at it better you can always get better at it better you can always get better at it IQ you never get better with what you're IQ you never get better with what you're IQ you never get better with what you're born with EQ born with EQ born with EQ your your self-awareness you know your your self-awareness you know your your self-awareness you know ability to manage your emotions and deal ability to manage your emotions and deal ability to manage your emotions and deal with people but your lq your ability to with people but your lq your ability to with people but your lq your ability to how you leverage your in impact and how you leverage your in impact and how you leverage your in impact and influence and your gifting those can get influence and your gifting those can get influence and your gifting those can get infinitely better infinitely better infinitely better and for someone who's from Alabama and for someone who's from Alabama and for someone who's from Alabama that's the most encouraging truth in the that's the most encouraging truth in the that's the most encouraging truth in the world so can you define the difference between so can you define the difference between a staff and a team you're using the word a staff and a team you're using the word a staff and a team you're using the word team and a lot of people throw that term team and a lot of people throw that term team and a lot of people throw that term around in the business world or in the around in the business world or in the around in the business world or in the church world church world church world uh what's the difference between a staff uh what's the difference between a staff uh what's the difference between a staff the staff of a church or a team in a the staff of a church or a team in a the staff of a church or a team in a church a staff in a corporation church a staff in a corporation church a staff in a corporation organization and a team what's the organization and a team what's the organization and a team what's the difference yeah so I like to say that difference yeah so I like to say that difference yeah so I like to say that you know and I say this in the book that you know and I say this in the book that you know and I say this in the book that a staff is a group of people who are a staff is a group of people who are a staff is a group of people who are working together working together working together committed to a collective Vision but committed to a collective Vision but committed to a collective Vision but killer teams are mutually devoted killer teams are mutually devoted killer teams are mutually devoted they're they're devoted to the mission they're they're devoted to the mission they're they're devoted to the mission but they're devoted to each other but they're devoted to each other but they're devoted to each other and I can say that here I don't say it and I can say that here I don't say it and I can say that here I don't say it in the marketplace everywhere but Acts in the marketplace everywhere but Acts in the marketplace everywhere but Acts chapter 2 says they were devoted to the chapter 2 says they were devoted to the chapter 2 says they were devoted to the apostles teaching so they were devoted

apostles teaching so they were devoted apostles teaching so they were devoted to correct Doctrine but they were to correct Doctrine but they were to correct Doctrine but they were devoted to the fellowship devoted to the fellowship devoted to the fellowship they were they had each other's backs they were they had each other's backs they were they had each other's backs they were loyal that the nature of they were loyal that the nature of they were loyal that the nature of relationships in the church were so relationships in the church were so relationships in the church were so close you had people of different races close you had people of different races close you had people of different races and tribes calling each other brother and tribes calling each other brother and tribes calling each other brother for the first time in human history for the first time in human history for the first time in human history that was huge and everybody wanted to be that was huge and everybody wanted to be that was huge and everybody wanted to be on that team on that team on that team that was strikingly impressive or that was strikingly impressive or that was strikingly impressive or effective not just what they said but effective not just what they said but effective not just what they said but like the bond this group of people had like the bond this group of people had like the bond this group of people had and it was the outside world recognized and it was the outside world recognized and it was the outside world recognized it and wanted a piece of it it's what it and wanted a piece of it it's what it and wanted a piece of it it's what gave cause to the Christian church not gave cause to the Christian church not gave cause to the Christian church not just the the the the Pharisees had been just the the the the Pharisees had been just the the the the Pharisees had been teaching the doctrine teaching the doctrine teaching the doctrine you know what the church had was the you know what the church had was the you know what the church had was the community community community in which they delivered and lived the in which they delivered and lived the in which they delivered and lived the doctrine that was the real power so in doctrine that was the real power so in doctrine that was the real power so in in the marketplace it's not your it's in the marketplace it's not your it's in the marketplace it's not your it's not your strategy it's not your product not your strategy it's not your product not your strategy it's not your product I mean Patriot like Patrick lincione I mean Patriot like Patrick lincione I mean Patriot like Patrick lincione says this in the advantage the says this in the advantage the says this in the advantage the competitive advantage in the marketplace competitive advantage in the marketplace competitive advantage in the marketplace and I would say the church and I would say the church and I would say the church is a highly aligned highly cohesive is a highly aligned highly cohesive is a highly aligned highly cohesive leadership team leadership team leadership team it's true it's true it's true if you're listening to this podcast you if you're listening to this podcast you if you're listening to this podcast you can't see the smile on Sean's face when can't see the smile on Sean's face when can't see the smile on Sean's face when he's talking about this stuff this is he's talking about this stuff this is he's talking about this stuff this is it's it's uh it's infectious if you're it's it's uh it's infectious if you're it's it's uh it's infectious if you're watching on our YouTube channel you see watching on our YouTube channel you see watching on our YouTube channel you see Sean's smile uh We've we've we're Sean's smile uh We've we've we're Sean's smile uh We've we've we're running in a lane here conversationally running in a lane here conversationally running in a lane here conversationally that turns his crank clearly I hope that

that turns his crank clearly I hope that that turns his crank clearly I hope that you can tell it just by the tone of my you can tell it just by the tone of my you can tell it just by the tone of my voice yeah hey Bart Blair here I'm the voice yeah hey Bart Blair here I'm the voice yeah hey Bart Blair here I'm the producer of missional marketing's church producer of missional marketing's church producer of missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much growth interviews podcast thanks so much growth interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in additional marketing we're for tuning in additional marketing we're for tuning in additional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach more people for Jesus online and one of more people for Jesus online and one of more people for Jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the Google ad their website utilizing the Google ad their website utilizing the Google ad Grant Google offers qualifying Grant Google offers qualifying Grant Google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our website at to learn more visit our website at to learn more visit our website at missionalmarketing.com and click the missionalmarketing.com and click the missionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says Google grants we'd love an opportunity Google grants we'd love an opportunity Google grants we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your mission to to partner with you in your mission to to partner with you in your mission to build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show yeah podcast and now back to the show yeah podcast and now back to the show yeah Jason you have a follow-up question Jason you have a follow-up question Jason you have a follow-up question there yeah there yeah there yeah um so I'm just I think about the um so I'm just I think about the um so I'm just I think about the churches we get to serve I think about churches we get to serve I think about churches we get to serve I think about the people who listen to this podcast the people who listen to this podcast the people who listen to this podcast and they're probably going oh great and they're probably going oh great and they're probably going oh great another leadership book you know but the another leadership book you know but the another leadership book you know but the things you're saying that that go deeper things you're saying that that go deeper things you're saying that that go deeper than that than that than that um here's a question for you because I um here's a question for you because I um here's a question for you because I want to help churches understand this want to help churches understand this want to help churches understand this out of all the churches that you work out of all the churches that you work out of all the churches that you work with or talk to how many I mean is there with or talk to how many I mean is there with or talk to how many I mean is there a s it doesn't probably matter the size a s it doesn't probably matter the size a s it doesn't probably matter the size of the church or even the size of the of the church or even the size of the of the church or even the size of the staff staff staff are they are they are they are they super dysfunctional are they are they super dysfunctional are they are they super dysfunctional are they way off base with this stuff are they way off base with this stuff are they way off base with this stuff are they yeah they're you know we're all equally yeah they're you know we're all equally yeah they're you know we're all equally yoked because we all love Jesus but you yoked because we all love Jesus but you yoked because we all love Jesus but you just see all this stuff on the outside

just see all this stuff on the outside just see all this stuff on the outside that you know you you see the that you know you you see the that you know you you see the catastrophe come in does that does that catastrophe come in does that does that catastrophe come in does that does that happen with every Church you work with happen with every Church you work with happen with every Church you work with or what's that look like yes the answer or what's that look like yes the answer or what's that look like yes the answer is yes those some would disqualify is yes those some would disqualify is yes those some would disqualify themselves and discredit themselves themselves and discredit themselves themselves and discredit themselves because we don't have a large staff or because we don't have a large staff or because we don't have a large staff or you know we have a lot of part-timers or you know we have a lot of part-timers or you know we have a lot of part-timers or we have a lot of lay leaders or whatever we have a lot of lay leaders or whatever we have a lot of lay leaders or whatever you know you know you know um the truth is you know God's not going um the truth is you know God's not going um the truth is you know God's not going to send us more than we can handle so if to send us more than we can handle so if to send us more than we can handle so if we can't Steward well the team we have we can't Steward well the team we have we can't Steward well the team we have now oh go ahead sorry we got to get better oh go ahead sorry we got to get better and then just in today's world and then just in today's world and then just in today's world especially the fast growing churches especially the fast growing churches especially the fast growing churches you know are tempted to use people to you know are tempted to use people to you know are tempted to use people to get the ministry done and man and in the get the ministry done and man and in the get the ministry done and man and in the on the hills of the pandemic you know on the hills of the pandemic you know on the hills of the pandemic you know Vander blumen and chemistry Staffing and Vander blumen and chemistry Staffing and Vander blumen and chemistry Staffing and all the church staff they're getting all the church staff they're getting all the church staff they're getting resumes like crazy guys are like I'm resumes like crazy guys are like I'm resumes like crazy guys are like I'm done I don't I don't care how great the done I don't I don't care how great the done I don't I don't care how great the big picture is and the lives that are big picture is and the lives that are big picture is and the lives that are being changed this this this this roller being changed this this this this roller being changed this this this this roller coaster is negatively affecting my coaster is negatively affecting my coaster is negatively affecting my quality of life and my family and I'm quality of life and my family and I'm quality of life and my family and I'm out I'm out literally it's affecting my out I'm out literally it's affecting my out I'm out literally it's affecting my quality of life as a human being to to quality of life as a human being to to quality of life as a human being to to make this great thing happen so we gotta make this great thing happen so we gotta make this great thing happen so we gotta we gotta circle around we got to get we gotta circle around we got to get we gotta circle around we got to get better loving and serving and caring the better loving and serving and caring the better loving and serving and caring the people that we're trying to take the people that we're trying to take the people that we're trying to take the hill with hill with hill with yeah we we see that all the time with

yeah we we see that all the time with yeah we we see that all the time with church staff turnover you know it's and church staff turnover you know it's and church staff turnover you know it's and since the pandemic it is skyrocketed you since the pandemic it is skyrocketed you since the pandemic it is skyrocketed you know now they're trying to find new know now they're trying to find new know now they're trying to find new people so they just find they're they're people so they just find they're they're people so they just find they're they're looking for the Unicorn that doesn't looking for the Unicorn that doesn't looking for the Unicorn that doesn't exist but they hire the person just exist but they hire the person just exist but they hire the person just because they're available because they're available because they're available and um and by the way the pandemic and um and by the way the pandemic and um and by the way the pandemic didn't cause it there's a lot of victim didn't cause it there's a lot of victim didn't cause it there's a lot of victim mentality out there wrapped up in that mentality out there wrapped up in that mentality out there wrapped up in that with pastors it exposed it it revealed with pastors it exposed it it revealed with pastors it exposed it it revealed it not caused it it not caused it it not caused it yeah so we got to take responsibility yeah so we got to take responsibility yeah so we got to take responsibility to get better you know as As Leaders to get better you know as As Leaders to get better you know as As Leaders Sean what are what are some things that Sean what are what are some things that Sean what are what are some things that kill a killer team or prevent a team kill a killer team or prevent a team kill a killer team or prevent a team from being a killer team what are some from being a killer team what are some from being a killer team what are some practical things does our listeners or practical things does our listeners or practical things does our listeners or our viewers are kind of going through our viewers are kind of going through our viewers are kind of going through their own mental checklist things that their own mental checklist things that their own mental checklist things that they may love about their team Things they may love about their team Things they may love about their team Things They Don't Love about their team what They Don't Love about their team what They Don't Love about their team what are some things that keep a killer team are some things that keep a killer team are some things that keep a killer team from being a killer team or a potential from being a killer team or a potential from being a killer team or a potential killer team from being a killer team killer team from being a killer team killer team from being a killer team yeah so so Jesus was full of grace and yeah so so Jesus was full of grace and yeah so so Jesus was full of grace and truth truth truth neither one out of balance neither one out of balance neither one out of balance is is incomplete you know and so is is incomplete you know and so is is incomplete you know and so churches in particular are famous you churches in particular are famous you churches in particular are famous you know for being nice to a fault and know for being nice to a fault and know for being nice to a fault and giving Grace to a fault giving Grace to a fault giving Grace to a fault and I'll have pastors call me and and I'll have pastors call me and and I'll have pastors call me and they'll say well in My Worship pastor of they'll say well in My Worship pastor of they'll say well in My Worship pastor of this it's always a worship Pastor you this it's always a worship Pastor you this it's always a worship Pastor you know my student pastor this and my know my student pastor this and my know my student pastor this and my question is always question is always question is always have you told him or her what you just have you told him or her what you just have you told him or her what you just told me you know the answer is 99 of 100 times

you know the answer is 99 of 100 times can you guess well no not really I mean can you guess well no not really I mean can you guess well no not really I mean you're not being honest you're not being honest you're not being honest yeah it lacks integrity yeah it lacks integrity yeah it lacks integrity and they don't even know you're and they don't even know you're and they don't even know you're frustrated at all frustrated at all frustrated at all so like Grace to a fault but then also so like Grace to a fault but then also so like Grace to a fault but then also truth to a fault this this high honor truth to a fault this this high honor truth to a fault this this high honor culture I really believe in having a culture I really believe in having a culture I really believe in having a culture of Honor culture of Honor culture of Honor but if I'm not touchable and I'm not but if I'm not touchable and I'm not but if I'm not touchable and I'm not approachable and no one can challenge me approachable and no one can challenge me approachable and no one can challenge me what many of these disqualifications what many of these disqualifications what many of these disqualifications many of these situations in where the many of these situations in where the many of these situations in where the the leader of the team disqualified the leader of the team disqualified the leader of the team disqualified themselves morally from continuing in themselves morally from continuing in themselves morally from continuing in vocational Ministry it was money sex or vocational Ministry it was money sex or vocational Ministry it was money sex or power those were just the symptoms yeah power those were just the symptoms yeah power those were just the symptoms yeah the Common Thread they all had was that the Common Thread they all had was that the Common Thread they all had was that leader allowed a fear-based culture to leader allowed a fear-based culture to leader allowed a fear-based culture to form within the team form within the team form within the team and I was unapproachable and I was unapproachable and I was unapproachable and I was Untouchable and no one could and I was Untouchable and no one could and I was Untouchable and no one could challenge me challenge me challenge me you know so it's it's that balance of you know so it's it's that balance of you know so it's it's that balance of Grace and Truth Grace and Truth Grace and Truth and me being approachable as a leader and me being approachable as a leader and me being approachable as a leader and everybody on our team being a and everybody on our team being a and everybody on our team being a coachable leader and US committing to coachable leader and US committing to coachable leader and US committing to honest robust dialogue healthy conflict honest robust dialogue healthy conflict honest robust dialogue healthy conflict as opposed to artificial Harmony as opposed to artificial Harmony as opposed to artificial Harmony you know the though all of those are the you know the though all of those are the you know the though all of those are the ingredients of like a really really ingredients of like a really really ingredients of like a really really healthy environment or you know a toxic healthy environment or you know a toxic healthy environment or you know a toxic a toxic you know culture that begins to a toxic you know culture that begins to a toxic you know culture that begins to form on the team hmm form on the team hmm form on the team hmm you mentioned that when you're coaching

you mentioned that when you're coaching you mentioned that when you're coaching it's it's like a year-long I mean you're it's it's like a year-long I mean you're it's it's like a year-long I mean you're sometimes with them at least a year so sometimes with them at least a year so sometimes with them at least a year so is that because you you know the church is that because you you know the church is that because you you know the church obviously goes through different seasons obviously goes through different seasons obviously goes through different seasons right and through those different time right and through those different time right and through those different time frames that yeah I think a good I mean frames that yeah I think a good I mean frames that yeah I think a good I mean she's the Tom Brady analogy for just a she's the Tom Brady analogy for just a she's the Tom Brady analogy for just a moment you know like you gotta you a moment you know like you gotta you a moment you know like you gotta you a best coach like watches the player play best coach like watches the player play best coach like watches the player play yeah has a relationship with them yeah has a relationship with them yeah has a relationship with them you know gets to know the little you know gets to know the little you know gets to know the little intricacies of you know everything about intricacies of you know everything about intricacies of you know everything about them and the longer they coach them the them and the longer they coach them the them and the longer they coach them the better they become because you know better they become because you know better they become because you know their tendencies their tendencies their tendencies you know and you're on the sidelines you know and you're on the sidelines you know and you're on the sidelines inner you're meeting the rest of the inner you're meeting the rest of the inner you're meeting the rest of the team team team so the longer you walk with that player so the longer you walk with that player so the longer you walk with that player the better Coach you are so I tell the better Coach you are so I tell the better Coach you are so I tell leaders the longer we walk with you leaders the longer we walk with you leaders the longer we walk with you you know will become a better Coach yeah you know will become a better Coach yeah you know will become a better Coach yeah and part of our coaching relationship and part of our coaching relationship and part of our coaching relationship involves like even meeting the cube involves like even meeting the cube involves like even meeting the cube players on the leadership team players on the leadership team players on the leadership team so I always tell leaders man after we so I always tell leaders man after we so I always tell leaders man after we meet the key players on your team I will meet the key players on your team I will meet the key players on your team I will instably become a better Coach because instably become a better Coach because instably become a better Coach because I'm going to have my own thoughts from I'm going to have my own thoughts from I'm going to have my own thoughts from an outside perspective of who's with you an outside perspective of who's with you an outside perspective of who's with you who can't make it to the next level who who can't make it to the next level who who can't make it to the next level who won't make it to the next level and I won't make it to the next level and I won't make it to the next level and I have a different set of lenses I'm have a different set of lenses I'm have a different set of lenses I'm looking at them than you are so I'll looking at them than you are so I'll looking at them than you are so I'll become a much better Coach to you even become a much better Coach to you even become a much better Coach to you even after I meet to keep players on the team after I meet to keep players on the team after I meet to keep players on the team so in general we don't have any so in general we don't have any so in general we don't have any contracts or agreements in our coaching contracts or agreements in our coaching contracts or agreements in our coaching but guys recognize wow they're giving me but guys recognize wow they're giving me but guys recognize wow they're giving me better counsel like every month we go better counsel like every month we go better counsel like every month we go along because I trust them more number along because I trust them more number along because I trust them more number one I'm dropping the pose one I'm dropping the pose one I'm dropping the pose and number two the key players you know

and number two the key players you know and number two the key players you know are kind of becoming part of that are kind of becoming part of that are kind of becoming part of that process too yeah you're you're sinking process too yeah you're you're sinking process too yeah you're you're sinking into the culture which then allows you into the culture which then allows you into the culture which then allows you to to to to coach up to coach up to coach up you know yeah right I wanna I wanna back you know yeah right I wanna I wanna back you know yeah right I wanna I wanna back up to the last up to the last up to the last um statement that you were making we um statement that you were making we um statement that you were making we were talking about things that kill the were talking about things that kill the were talking about things that kill the potential of killer teams being killer potential of killer teams being killer potential of killer teams being killer teams and you talked about teams and you talked about teams and you talked about approachability coachability approachability coachability approachability coachability what is you know the vast majority of what is you know the vast majority of what is you know the vast majority of people who listen to this podcast are people who listen to this podcast are people who listen to this podcast are the vast majority are probably the vast majority are probably the vast majority are probably Communications directors uh yeah there Communications directors uh yeah there Communications directors uh yeah there are some senior pastors and some are some senior pastors and some are some senior pastors and some executive pastors that would tune in but executive pastors that would tune in but executive pastors that would tune in but there are people that would typically there are people that would typically there are people that would typically find themselves somewhere in the middle find themselves somewhere in the middle find themselves somewhere in the middle of the leadership uh ladder within their of the leadership uh ladder within their of the leadership uh ladder within their organization organization organization if I'm that guy or that gal and I am if I'm that guy or that gal and I am if I'm that guy or that gal and I am recognizing that there's some level of recognizing that there's some level of recognizing that there's some level of toxicity there's some level of conflict toxicity there's some level of conflict toxicity there's some level of conflict there's there's something that isn't there's there's something that isn't there's there's something that isn't healthy for our team I mean and granted healthy for our team I mean and granted healthy for our team I mean and granted there are all kinds of books about there are all kinds of books about there are all kinds of books about leading up and and that sort of thing leading up and and that sort of thing leading up and and that sort of thing but if I want to be a catalyst but if I want to be a catalyst but if I want to be a catalyst for helping my team get better but I'm for helping my team get better but I'm for helping my team get better but I'm not the head coach of the team what are not the head coach of the team what are not the head coach of the team what are some practical things that I can do that some practical things that I can do that some practical things that I can do that would like buy a copy of the book and would like buy a copy of the book and would like buy a copy of the book and give it to my boss or or fill in the give it to my boss or or fill in the give it to my boss or or fill in the Bible John what else can I do yeah I Bible John what else can I do yeah I Bible John what else can I do yeah I wouldn't suggest that in general wouldn't suggest that in general wouldn't suggest that in general um I hate it when as a senior pastor or um I hate it when as a senior pastor or um I hate it when as a senior pastor or any staff member or church member came any staff member or church member came any staff member or church member came up here's a book I think you need to up here's a book I think you need to up here's a book I think you need to read you know there's always an agenda

read you know there's always an agenda read you know there's always an agenda there it's awful and it's the Bible too there it's awful and it's the Bible too there it's awful and it's the Bible too when they hand you the Bible and say I when they hand you the Bible and say I when they hand you the Bible and say I don't think you're reading the same don't think you're reading the same don't think you're reading the same Bible right I've had I've had that Bible right I've had I've had that Bible right I've had I've had that happen here's if you're a second or happen here's if you're a second or happen here's if you're a second or third cheerleader in the in the church third cheerleader in the in the church third cheerleader in the in the church you know you need to know what I tell you know you need to know what I tell you know you need to know what I tell senior pastors I tell senior pastors you senior pastors I tell senior pastors you senior pastors I tell senior pastors you do not need to listen to most people in do not need to listen to most people in do not need to listen to most people in your church your church your church don't listen to them only listen to don't listen to them only listen to don't listen to them only listen to people in your church including on your people in your church including on your people in your church including on your team team team who look they have to meet three who look they have to meet three who look they have to meet three requirements three fundamental requirements three fundamental requirements three fundamental requirements they have to meet all three requirements they have to meet all three requirements they have to meet all three they gotta love God with all their they gotta love God with all their they gotta love God with all their hearts hearts hearts they gotta love the vision with all they gotta love the vision with all they gotta love the vision with all their hearts and they gotta love you their hearts and they gotta love you their hearts and they gotta love you with all their hearts if they don't meet with all their hearts if they don't meet with all their hearts if they don't meet all three don't listen to them all three don't listen to them all three don't listen to them if you your your mandate is to find you if you your your mandate is to find you if you your your mandate is to find you a few people that meet all three a few people that meet all three a few people that meet all three requirements and listen to them requirements and listen to them requirements and listen to them so if you're a second or third so if you're a second or third so if you're a second or third cheerleader flip that around if I want cheerleader flip that around if I want cheerleader flip that around if I want to be listened to to be listened to to be listened to first thing my leader needs to hear is first thing my leader needs to hear is first thing my leader needs to hear is not what they're doing wrong not all the not what they're doing wrong not all the not what they're doing wrong not all the things that I see that are broken not to things that I see that are broken not to things that I see that are broken not to point out their blind spot the first point out their blind spot the first point out their blind spot the first thing I've got to communicate is Pastor thing I've got to communicate is Pastor thing I've got to communicate is Pastor I'm with you I'm for you I'm behind you I'm with you I'm for you I'm behind you I'm with you I'm for you I'm behind you I love you I got your back no matter I love you I got your back no matter I love you I got your back no matter what and no matter what kind of dialogue what and no matter what kind of dialogue what and no matter what kind of dialogue we have behind closed doors when we walk we have behind closed doors when we walk we have behind closed doors when we walk out I got you out I got you out I got you you know and them feeling that you know and them feeling that you know and them feeling that consistently but not just implied like consistently but not just implied like consistently but not just implied like spoken spoken spoken spoken and that will give you access to

spoken and that will give you access to spoken and that will give you access to your leader that 999 of a thousand do your leader that 999 of a thousand do your leader that 999 of a thousand do not get not get not get do not get you know and I have found you do not get you know and I have found you do not get you know and I have found you know majority of the time know majority of the time know majority of the time he'll listen she'll listen if if they he'll listen she'll listen if if they he'll listen she'll listen if if they know know know you love your love God you're pursuing you love your love God you're pursuing you love your love God you're pursuing God you totally are in love with the God you totally are in love with the God you totally are in love with the vision and you love them and I'm telling vision and you love them and I'm telling vision and you love them and I'm telling senior pastors if they meet all three senior pastors if they meet all three senior pastors if they meet all three requirements listen to them listen to requirements listen to them listen to requirements listen to them listen to them and your the second thing I would them and your the second thing I would them and your the second thing I would say is their response is not your say is their response is not your say is their response is not your responsibility responsibility responsibility your responsibility is to speak the your responsibility is to speak the your responsibility is to speak the truth in love if you're not doing that truth in love if you're not doing that truth in love if you're not doing that then you're part of the problem then you're part of the problem then you're part of the problem if you're living in fear of your job if you're living in fear of your job if you're living in fear of your job rather than speaking the truth in love rather than speaking the truth in love rather than speaking the truth in love in biblical Community you're becoming in biblical Community you're becoming in biblical Community you're becoming part of the issue so I also get calls part of the issue so I also get calls part of the issue so I also get calls from second and third chair leaders and from second and third chair leaders and from second and third chair leaders and I'm like have you told your pastor that I'm like have you told your pastor that I'm like have you told your pastor that oh no no I would never do that well you oh no no I would never do that well you oh no no I would never do that well you owe it to him as a human being owe it to him as a human being owe it to him as a human being just your do you want him to get better just your do you want him to get better just your do you want him to get better do you have hopes that he could get do you have hopes that he could get do you have hopes that he could get better do you believe God can do better do you believe God can do better do you believe God can do anything well he uses the church anything well he uses the church anything well he uses the church you know and so if you meet those three you know and so if you meet those three you know and so if you meet those three requirements you need to go to them you requirements you need to go to them you requirements you need to go to them you need to go to her and begin with what's need to go to her and begin with what's need to go to her and begin with what's right right right that's where every coaching conversation that's where every coaching conversation that's where every coaching conversation should start but then say I see some should start but then say I see some should start but then say I see some things I want what's great for you it things I want what's great for you it things I want what's great for you it bothers me sometimes what I hear people bothers me sometimes what I hear people bothers me sometimes what I hear people say or think or whatever I read the room say or think or whatever I read the room say or think or whatever I read the room you know whatever I got your back and I you know whatever I got your back and I you know whatever I got your back and I think I can help you with a couple blind

think I can help you with a couple blind think I can help you with a couple blind spots if you're open to it you know and spots if you're open to it you know and spots if you're open to it you know and don't say no for them let them decide don't say no for them let them decide don't say no for them let them decide what they're going to be insecure what they're going to be insecure what they're going to be insecure defensive dismissive whatever that's not defensive dismissive whatever that's not defensive dismissive whatever that's not our responsibility but to speak the our responsibility but to speak the our responsibility but to speak the truth in love in hopes we could win that truth in love in hopes we could win that truth in love in hopes we could win that person back scripture says person back scripture says person back scripture says I hope that's in the bandwidth somewhere I hope that's in the bandwidth somewhere I hope that's in the bandwidth somewhere spectrum of what you were looking for spectrum of what you were looking for spectrum of what you were looking for yeah absolutely now let me follow up yeah absolutely now let me follow up yeah absolutely now let me follow up that question with that question with that question with if I'm on a team this is this is going if I'm on a team this is this is going if I'm on a team this is this is going into maybe a totally different direction into maybe a totally different direction into maybe a totally different direction but if I'm on a team and let's say I've but if I'm on a team and let's say I've but if I'm on a team and let's say I've I believe that I am doing those things I believe that I am doing those things I believe that I am doing those things and I have been doing those things but and I have been doing those things but and I have been doing those things but I'm not seeing the change I'm not seeing the change I'm not seeing the change organizationally that I I want or feel organizationally that I I want or feel organizationally that I I want or feel like I need to see changing like I need to see changing like I need to see changing what are the cues for me that I might be what are the cues for me that I might be what are the cues for me that I might be on the wrong bus what are the things on the wrong bus what are the things on the wrong bus what are the things that might be cues for me that let me that might be cues for me that let me that might be cues for me that let me know that hey this team might not ever know that hey this team might not ever know that hey this team might not ever get to be a killer team and I might need get to be a killer team and I might need get to be a killer team and I might need to go look for a killer team somewhere to go look for a killer team somewhere to go look for a killer team somewhere else else else yeah wire wire 75 85 percent of churches yeah wire wire 75 85 percent of churches yeah wire wire 75 85 percent of churches in North America plateaued are declining in North America plateaued are declining in North America plateaued are declining you know because the leaders defensive you know because the leaders defensive you know because the leaders defensive and insecure won't learn anything from and insecure won't learn anything from and insecure won't learn anything from anybody won't get a coach isolated doing anybody won't get a coach isolated doing anybody won't get a coach isolated doing the way he did things 20 years ago and the way he did things 20 years ago and the way he did things 20 years ago and and his hell bent on doing it so it's and his hell bent on doing it so it's and his hell bent on doing it so it's deep change or slow death so I've got to deep change or slow death so I've got to deep change or slow death so I've got to decide to stay here and Die slow death decide to stay here and Die slow death decide to stay here and Die slow death or leave it's a free country I'd rather or leave it's a free country I'd rather or leave it's a free country I'd rather live in a van down by the river Bart live in a van down by the river Bart live in a van down by the river Bart then serve under a leader that won't

then serve under a leader that won't then serve under a leader that won't listen to anybody listen to anybody listen to anybody uh it's a free country uh it's a free country uh it's a free country in our country you know you can work in our country you know you can work in our country you know you can work anywhere you can do anything and I'm I'm anywhere you can do anything and I'm I'm anywhere you can do anything and I'm I'm not going to abide my best years of my not going to abide my best years of my not going to abide my best years of my life my greatest potential under a life my greatest potential under a life my greatest potential under a leader that won't listen Jesus said they leader that won't listen Jesus said they leader that won't listen Jesus said they won't listen Shake the Dust off your won't listen Shake the Dust off your won't listen Shake the Dust off your sandals and move on to the next one you sandals and move on to the next one you sandals and move on to the next one you know leave in the name of Jesus you know know leave in the name of Jesus you know know leave in the name of Jesus you know if you've spoken your peace and that's a if you've spoken your peace and that's a if you've spoken your peace and that's a big if big if big if if you've spoken your peace not taken a if you've spoken your peace not taken a if you've spoken your peace not taken a shot on the way out I'm talking about shot on the way out I'm talking about shot on the way out I'm talking about like a true appeal and desire to lead up like a true appeal and desire to lead up like a true appeal and desire to lead up and create a win and help this leader and create a win and help this leader and create a win and help this leader peel back his blind spots and there's peel back his blind spots and there's peel back his blind spots and there's been nothing not a crickets you know or been nothing not a crickets you know or been nothing not a crickets you know or passive aggressiveness you know passive aggressiveness you know passive aggressiveness you know all this stuff that happens that's all this stuff that happens that's all this stuff that happens that's unhealthy retribution perhaps unhealthy retribution perhaps unhealthy retribution perhaps you know you know you know or at the least nothing you know I gotta or at the least nothing you know I gotta or at the least nothing you know I gotta decide am I just gonna die decide am I just gonna die decide am I just gonna die and be okay with that and learn to kind and be okay with that and learn to kind and be okay with that and learn to kind of submit that and and maybe together as of submit that and and maybe together as of submit that and and maybe together as a collective Mission we're still can a collective Mission we're still can a collective Mission we're still can accomplish a lot or accomplish a lot or accomplish a lot or don't want to go serve under a leader don't want to go serve under a leader don't want to go serve under a leader that I can potentially impact up that I can potentially impact up that I can potentially impact up you know because there are lots of great you know because there are lots of great you know because there are lots of great pastors out there that are not insecure pastors out there that are not insecure pastors out there that are not insecure that are not defensive that will listen that are not defensive that will listen that are not defensive that will listen that are collaborative there's a lot of that are collaborative there's a lot of that are collaborative there's a lot of great guys out there and gals that will great guys out there and gals that will great guys out there and gals that will that will listen to you that will listen to you that will listen to you so go for it

so go for it so go for it wow wow wow there's truth and nuggets for everybody there's truth and nuggets for everybody there's truth and nuggets for everybody who's listening right there I'm just ruined some person's life today I'm just ruined some person's life today I mean you know Jason and I have been I mean you know Jason and I have been I mean you know Jason and I have been around the church World you've been around the church World you've been around the church World you've been around the church world and and we've around the church world and and we've around the church world and and we've seen people come out of church and out seen people come out of church and out seen people come out of church and out of ministry amazingly wounded like yeah of ministry amazingly wounded like yeah of ministry amazingly wounded like yeah really really hurt and a lot of times really really hurt and a lot of times really really hurt and a lot of times the reason that the wounds are so deep the reason that the wounds are so deep the reason that the wounds are so deep is that there is a an unbridled loyalty is that there is a an unbridled loyalty is that there is a an unbridled loyalty to the church and an unbridled loyalty to the church and an unbridled loyalty to the church and an unbridled loyalty to the mission to the mission to the mission and the person on the staff team and the person on the staff team and the person on the staff team doesn't have enough self-respect or doesn't have enough self-respect or doesn't have enough self-respect or believe that it's okay to leave if and believe that it's okay to leave if and believe that it's okay to leave if and when things are unhealthy for them when things are unhealthy for them when things are unhealthy for them but at the same time I've also seen but at the same time I've also seen but at the same time I've also seen those people leave those people leave those people leave and go somewhere else and go somewhere else and go somewhere else and plug in and find that the patterns and plug in and find that the patterns and plug in and find that the patterns are repeated are repeated are repeated without being self-aware enough that without being self-aware enough that without being self-aware enough that maybe they are contributing to some of maybe they are contributing to some of maybe they are contributing to some of the reason that their situation isn't the reason that their situation isn't the reason that their situation isn't healthy and it's not the best for them healthy and it's not the best for them healthy and it's not the best for them so it does take a level of so it does take a level of so it does take a level of self-awareness to know that you know if self-awareness to know that you know if self-awareness to know that you know if I go from church a to church B to church I go from church a to church B to church I go from church a to church B to church C and I'm miserable in every single one C and I'm miserable in every single one C and I'm miserable in every single one of those and it's not working out I of those and it's not working out I of those and it's not working out I might be the common denominator yeah might be the common denominator yeah might be the common denominator yeah exactly but that's that's not always the exactly but that's that's not always the exactly but that's that's not always the case but it is sometimes the case uh

case but it is sometimes the case uh case but it is sometimes the case uh Henry Cloud I recommend the book Henry Cloud I recommend the book Henry Cloud I recommend the book necessary Endings by Henry cloud necessary Endings by Henry cloud necessary Endings by Henry cloud you know he said it takes a healthy you know he said it takes a healthy you know he said it takes a healthy self-aware person to recognize his time self-aware person to recognize his time self-aware person to recognize his time to exit before everyone else comes to to exit before everyone else comes to to exit before everyone else comes to that conclusion that conclusion that conclusion yeah yeah yeah yeah in my in my in my pre-ministry in yeah in my in my in my pre-ministry in yeah in my in my in my pre-ministry in my pre I boast on this I had about five my pre I boast on this I had about five my pre I boast on this I had about five years in the corporate world before I years in the corporate world before I years in the corporate world before I went into Ministry and I had a pretty went into Ministry and I had a pretty went into Ministry and I had a pretty high level role in the organization that high level role in the organization that high level role in the organization that I worked in and I can honestly say in I worked in and I can honestly say in I worked in and I can honestly say in the five years that I led this team I the five years that I led this team I the five years that I led this team I never had to let anyone go but I did never had to let anyone go but I did never had to let anyone go but I did have a lot of those conversations with have a lot of those conversations with have a lot of those conversations with staff where I said staff where I said staff where I said you might need to think about whether or you might need to think about whether or you might need to think about whether or not this is the best long-term fit for not this is the best long-term fit for not this is the best long-term fit for you before somebody else has to make you before somebody else has to make you before somebody else has to make that decision for you that's exactly that decision for you that's exactly that decision for you that's exactly right Clarity you know with your team right Clarity you know with your team right Clarity you know with your team members allows room for the Holy Spirit members allows room for the Holy Spirit members allows room for the Holy Spirit to speak to them more loudly and for to speak to them more loudly and for to speak to them more loudly and for them to come to the conclusion them to come to the conclusion them to come to the conclusion that this is no longer that this is no longer that this is no longer you know a fit for them and it's always you know a fit for them and it's always you know a fit for them and it's always better for them to come to that better for them to come to that better for them to come to that conclusion than you but they can't come conclusion than you but they can't come conclusion than you but they can't come to that conclusion most of the time to that conclusion most of the time to that conclusion most of the time unless you are painting a clear picture unless you are painting a clear picture unless you are painting a clear picture of where we're going and what you need of where we're going and what you need of where we're going and what you need from them and where they're falling from them and where they're falling from them and where they're falling short what their blind spots are you short what their blind spots are you short what their blind spots are you know what you need from them in the know what you need from them in the know what you need from them in the future etc etc etc and when you shy back

future etc etc etc and when you shy back future etc etc etc and when you shy back from that you're harming the church from that you're harming the church from that you're harming the church but you're harming that person as well but you're harming that person as well but you're harming that person as well because they're running in a lane because they're running in a lane because they're running in a lane that doesn't put a smile on their face that doesn't put a smile on their face that doesn't put a smile on their face every day if they're in over their heads every day if they're in over their heads every day if they're in over their heads from a capacity standpoint from a capacity standpoint from a capacity standpoint or the vision has shifted a little bit or the vision has shifted a little bit or the vision has shifted a little bit over time and they are no longer one over time and they are no longer one over time and they are no longer one thousand percent mutually devoted to thousand percent mutually devoted to thousand percent mutually devoted to this thing this thing this thing it's going to suck the life out of them it's going to suck the life out of them it's going to suck the life out of them too too too not only their team their department but not only their team their department but not only their team their department but that human being that's there's a reason that human being that's there's a reason that human being that's there's a reason why they call them preachers kids you why they call them preachers kids you why they call them preachers kids you know because you got you got this man know because you got you got this man know because you got you got this man this woman running outside of their lane this woman running outside of their lane this woman running outside of their lane and then they get inside they get in the and then they get inside they get in the and then they get inside they get in the car and Grumble every Sunday afternoon car and Grumble every Sunday afternoon car and Grumble every Sunday afternoon to their kids you know so we do them a to their kids you know so we do them a to their kids you know so we do them a favor by getting really clear about favor by getting really clear about favor by getting really clear about what what the future looks like for us what what the future looks like for us what what the future looks like for us and for them it's not it's not to their and for them it's not it's not to their and for them it's not it's not to their detriment it should never be to their detriment it should never be to their detriment it should never be to their detriment it's for their good and for detriment it's for their good and for detriment it's for their good and for the organization's good we we lean into the organization's good we we lean into the organization's good we we lean into courage courage courage no no no well let's let's land this well let's let's land this well let's let's land this Sean thank you for Sean thank you for Sean thank you for your ministry for your uh your years of your ministry for your uh your years of your ministry for your uh your years of experience sharing this with just today experience sharing this with just today experience sharing this with just today I've learned a lot and hopefully you I've learned a lot and hopefully you I've learned a lot and hopefully you have two as the listeners are listening have two as the listeners are listening have two as the listeners are listening to this how can how can they get in to this how can how can they get in to this how can how can they get in touch with you with your organization touch with you with your organization touch with you with your organization and and buy the book and and buy the book and and buy the book sure killer teambook.org is the book I sure killer teambook.org is the book I sure killer teambook.org is the book I self-published this one so I could self-published this one so I could self-published this one so I could literally send in the first one for the literally send in the first one for the literally send in the first one for the cost of my shipping and the print and cost of my shipping and the print and cost of my shipping and the print and the printing and the shipping the printing and the shipping the printing and the shipping so the first one's on me really

so the first one's on me really so the first one's on me really um uh there and then you can get extra um uh there and then you can get extra um uh there and then you can get extra books for your team and you know all of books for your team and you know all of books for your team and you know all of that but I just say to guys like the that but I just say to guys like the that but I just say to guys like the book is never intended to be a fix-all book is never intended to be a fix-all book is never intended to be a fix-all you know that's one of the detriments in you know that's one of the detriments in you know that's one of the detriments in our society right now but the next book our society right now but the next book our society right now but the next book I read the next conference I go to you I read the next conference I go to you I read the next conference I go to you know the next podcast I listen to okay know the next podcast I listen to okay know the next podcast I listen to okay and I lead to you know but it you need a and I lead to you know but it you need a and I lead to you know but it you need a coach you need a coach so we'd love to coach you need a coach so we'd love to coach you need a coach so we'd love to talk with you about that you know talk with you about that you know talk with you about that you know courageouspastors.com strategy courageouspastors.com strategy courageouspastors.com strategy we'll jump on a zoom call we'll assess we'll jump on a zoom call we'll assess we'll jump on a zoom call we'll assess us whether it be a good time or fit to us whether it be a good time or fit to us whether it be a good time or fit to talk with you your team about coaching talk with you your team about coaching talk with you your team about coaching you that's our end game every time you you that's our end game every time you you that's our end game every time you know not to write books or speak or do know not to write books or speak or do know not to write books or speak or do podcasts but to coach leaders excellent Sean I appreciate you I know excellent Sean I appreciate you I know you're busy and and your schedule's full you're busy and and your schedule's full you're busy and and your schedule's full so thank you for for being on this so thank you for for being on this so thank you for for being on this podcast and writing this book and podcast and writing this book and podcast and writing this book and sharing uh some of the details with us sharing uh some of the details with us sharing uh some of the details with us appreciate it thank you guys for what appreciate it thank you guys for what appreciate it thank you guys for what you do thanks for bringing your gift you do thanks for bringing your gift you do thanks for bringing your gift you know to the church and wow I can you know to the church and wow I can you know to the church and wow I can think of a lot of former staff members think of a lot of former staff members think of a lot of former staff members that could have used you know your that could have used you know your that could have used you know your coaching your help your support your coaching your help your support your coaching your help your support your Insight you know over the years so I Insight you know over the years so I Insight you know over the years so I just praise God for what he's doing in just praise God for what he's doing in just praise God for what he's doing in and through you all amen thank you sir and through you all amen thank you sir and through you all amen thank you sir appreciate the opportunity to hang out appreciate the opportunity to hang out appreciate the opportunity to hang out with you today and with you today and with you today and we'll just and calling your friend we'll just and calling your friend we'll just and calling your friend thanks Sean yeah bar thanks Sean yeah bar thanks Sean yeah bar [Music] [Music] [Music] thank you

[Music] [Music] thank you