Creating Digital Content for Evangelism & Discipleship | Patrick Miller

so these people who are de-churching so these people who are de-churching they're actually not leaving for the they're actually not leaving for the they're actually not leaving for the most part because they're angry or most part because they're angry or most part because they're angry or because they're hurt there's some people because they're hurt there's some people because they're hurt there's some people like that and that's what pastors tend like that and that's what pastors tend like that and that's what pastors tend to think of because when those people to think of because when those people to think of because when those people leave our church they're loud and it's leave our church they're loud and it's leave our church they're loud and it's often painful conversations that you often painful conversations that you often painful conversations that you know they they sit kind of largely in know they they sit kind of largely in know they they sit kind of largely in our mind the average person leaving just our mind the average person leaving just our mind the average person leaving just kind of stops they they just get out of kind of stops they they just get out of kind of stops they they just get out of a habit they they just drift off from a habit they they just drift off from a habit they they just drift off from the church and what's really encouraging the church and what's really encouraging the church and what's really encouraging is that these D church people which are is that these D church people which are is that these D church people which are make up about a quarter of America's make up about a quarter of America's make up about a quarter of America's population by the way these Detroit population by the way these Detroit population by the way these Detroit people are very open to coming back to people are very open to coming back to people are very open to coming back to church they actually see and understand church they actually see and understand church they actually see and understand my life was better when I was walking my life was better when I was walking my life was better when I was walking with Jesus I miss having times of with Jesus I miss having times of with Jesus I miss having times of worship having Rich Community they know worship having Rich Community they know worship having Rich Community they know what they're missing out on they just what they're missing out on they just what they're missing out on they just need an invitation they just need an need an invitation they just need an need an invitation they just need an on-ramp and so that's why we again this on-ramp and so that's why we again this on-ramp and so that's why we again this is really basic stuff our number one way is really basic stuff our number one way is really basic stuff our number one way that we've brought D church people back that we've brought D church people back that we've brought D church people back into our church are email devotionals into our church are email devotionals into our church are email devotionals hey welcome to season three episode 20 hey welcome to season three episode 20 hey welcome to season three episode 20 of the missional marketing podcast my of the missional marketing podcast my of the missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair I am the co-host of name is Bart Blair I am the co-host of name is Bart Blair I am the co-host of the show and as always it's my privilege the show and as always it's my privilege the show and as always it's my privilege to welcome you to this week's episode to welcome you to this week's episode to welcome you to this week's episode our goal with this podcast is to help our goal with this podcast is to help our goal with this podcast is to help your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications and this week's episode is going to help and this week's episode is going to help and this week's episode is going to help you do just that regardless of what seat you do just that regardless of what seat you do just that regardless of what seat you sit in on the communications and you sit in on the communications and you sit in on the communications and marketing bus in your church maybe marketing bus in your church maybe marketing bus in your church maybe you're a communications director maybe you're a communications director maybe you're a communications director maybe you're part of the communications team you're part of the communications team you're part of the communications team maybe you're a volunteer in your church maybe you're a volunteer in your church maybe you're a volunteer in your church helping out with social media and helping out with social media and helping out with social media and marketing maybe you're the senior pastor marketing maybe you're the senior pastor marketing maybe you're the senior pastor or executive Pastor whatever your role or executive Pastor whatever your role or executive Pastor whatever your role is you're going to learn a ton from this is you're going to learn a ton from this is you're going to learn a ton from this conversation that we're going to share

conversation that we're going to share conversation that we're going to share with you today Jason Hamrock uh the CEO with you today Jason Hamrock uh the CEO with you today Jason Hamrock uh the CEO of missional marketing he is my co-host of missional marketing he is my co-host of missional marketing he is my co-host on the show and he and I recently sat on the show and he and I recently sat on the show and he and I recently sat down with a pastor and podcaster named down with a pastor and podcaster named down with a pastor and podcaster named Patrick Miller who honestly just blew Patrick Miller who honestly just blew Patrick Miller who honestly just blew our minds with some amazing insight our minds with some amazing insight our minds with some amazing insight about how churches can create and about how churches can create and about how churches can create and leverage content digital content online leverage content digital content online leverage content digital content online to reach more people online and to move to reach more people online and to move to reach more people online and to move them towards incarnational relationships them towards incarnational relationships them towards incarnational relationships so that they can discover Jesus and be so that they can discover Jesus and be so that they can discover Jesus and be discipled to be more like Jesus it's a discipled to be more like Jesus it's a discipled to be more like Jesus it's a fantastic conversation Patrick is the fantastic conversation Patrick is the fantastic conversation Patrick is the co-host of a podcast called Truth over co-host of a podcast called Truth over co-host of a podcast called Truth over tribe his church is called The Crossing tribe his church is called The Crossing tribe his church is called The Crossing it's a church in uh in Missouri it's a church in uh in Missouri it's a church in uh in Missouri we've linked to those in the show notes we've linked to those in the show notes we've linked to those in the show notes so you can check those out online it's a so you can check those out online it's a so you can check those out online it's a fantastic conversation that I I think fantastic conversation that I I think fantastic conversation that I I think you're really going to love we could you're really going to love we could you're really going to love we could have probably talked to Patrick for two have probably talked to Patrick for two have probably talked to Patrick for two hours three hours four hours continue to hours three hours four hours continue to hours three hours four hours continue to pick his brain and learn a 10 from him pick his brain and learn a 10 from him pick his brain and learn a 10 from him and I'm hoping that we're going to be and I'm hoping that we're going to be and I'm hoping that we're going to be able to have him back on the show able to have him back on the show able to have him back on the show sometime because he is a wealth of sometime because he is a wealth of sometime because he is a wealth of knowledge experience and information knowledge experience and information knowledge experience and information hopefully you are finding this podcast hopefully you are finding this podcast hopefully you are finding this podcast to be helpful for you in your role in to be helpful for you in your role in to be helpful for you in your role in Communications in your church and if you Communications in your church and if you Communications in your church and if you are and you haven't yet subscribe to the are and you haven't yet subscribe to the are and you haven't yet subscribe to the podcast we ask that you do that whatever podcast we ask that you do that whatever podcast we ask that you do that whatever your favorite podcasting platform is your favorite podcasting platform is your favorite podcasting platform is Please Subscribe and if you will please Please Subscribe and if you will please Please Subscribe and if you will please leave us a rating and a review you know leave us a rating and a review you know leave us a rating and a review you know the drill that will help more people the drill that will help more people the drill that will help more people with the algorithms of the podcast to with the algorithms of the podcast to with the algorithms of the podcast to sphere it'll help more people find the sphere it'll help more people find the sphere it'll help more people find the podcast and if you're watching our podcast and if you're watching our podcast and if you're watching our YouTube channel make sure that you not YouTube channel make sure that you not YouTube channel make sure that you not only subscribe but that you also ring

only subscribe but that you also ring only subscribe but that you also ring the bell so that you get notified of any the bell so that you get notified of any the bell so that you get notified of any new episodes that we drop this is going new episodes that we drop this is going new episodes that we drop this is going to be our last episode in 2022 when to be our last episode in 2022 when to be our last episode in 2022 when Jason and I come back at the beginning Jason and I come back at the beginning Jason and I come back at the beginning of 2023 we're gonna kick off the new of 2023 we're gonna kick off the new of 2023 we're gonna kick off the new year uh with some fantastic guests some year uh with some fantastic guests some year uh with some fantastic guests some amazing topics that are going to help amazing topics that are going to help amazing topics that are going to help your church leverage digital marketing your church leverage digital marketing your church leverage digital marketing and effective Communications for church and effective Communications for church and effective Communications for church growth and um and for more Kingdom growth and um and for more Kingdom growth and um and for more Kingdom expansion in your community so thanks expansion in your community so thanks expansion in your community so thanks again for tuning in uh that's all I got again for tuning in uh that's all I got again for tuning in uh that's all I got here is Jason Hamrock our CEO and our here is Jason Hamrock our CEO and our here is Jason Hamrock our CEO and our conversation with pastor and podcaster conversation with pastor and podcaster conversation with pastor and podcaster Patrick Miller Patrick Miller Patrick Miller well hey Patrick welcome to the podcast well hey Patrick welcome to the podcast well hey Patrick welcome to the podcast how you doing today oh I'm doing great how you doing today oh I'm doing great how you doing today oh I'm doing great it's fantastic to be with you both I it's fantastic to be with you both I it's fantastic to be with you both I think the work you guys are doing is so think the work you guys are doing is so think the work you guys are doing is so important for the kingdom in general in important for the kingdom in general in important for the kingdom in general in America and Beyond well likewise America and Beyond well likewise America and Beyond well likewise um as our users are going to learn about um as our users are going to learn about um as our users are going to learn about you it's it's pretty impressive on what you it's it's pretty impressive on what you it's it's pretty impressive on what your you and your church are doing and your you and your church are doing and your you and your church are doing and I'm really excited about this show I'm really excited about this show I'm really excited about this show um it really kind of speaks to the heart um it really kind of speaks to the heart um it really kind of speaks to the heart of missional marketing as to how we want of missional marketing as to how we want of missional marketing as to how we want to help people that don't know Jesus to help people that don't know Jesus to help people that don't know Jesus that are D church or unchurched get that are D church or unchurched get that are D church or unchurched get connected to a church in some kind of a connected to a church in some kind of a connected to a church in some kind of a digital fashion not the only way people digital fashion not the only way people digital fashion not the only way people get to connect to Jesus but but a big get to connect to Jesus but but a big get to connect to Jesus but but a big one and so this this conversation today one and so this this conversation today one and so this this conversation today is is hopefully is going to be really is is hopefully is going to be really is is hopefully is going to be really beneficial to you church because what beneficial to you church because what beneficial to you church because what Patrick's doing when things he's going Patrick's doing when things he's going Patrick's doing when things he's going to share to share to share we love it we love it it's it's we love it we love it it's it's we love it we love it it's it's something we would prescribe to every

something we would prescribe to every something we would prescribe to every church that you get serious about doing church that you get serious about doing church that you get serious about doing this so let's start right there Patrick this so let's start right there Patrick this so let's start right there Patrick tell us a little bit about who you are tell us a little bit about who you are tell us a little bit about who you are and what church you're at and give us a and what church you're at and give us a and what church you're at and give us a little bit of of your story well let me little bit of of your story well let me little bit of of your story well let me share how I got into digital Ministry I share how I got into digital Ministry I share how I got into digital Ministry I mean first of all I didn't grow up in a mean first of all I didn't grow up in a mean first of all I didn't grow up in a Christian family I became a Christian Christian family I became a Christian Christian family I became a Christian when I was in college and so like a lot when I was in college and so like a lot when I was in college and so like a lot of people who became Christians in of people who became Christians in of people who became Christians in college I ended up doing College college I ended up doing College college I ended up doing College Ministry changed my life I wanted to be Ministry changed my life I wanted to be Ministry changed my life I wanted to be a part of that in the lives of other a part of that in the lives of other a part of that in the lives of other college students and after that I college students and after that I college students and after that I started working primarily with people in started working primarily with people in started working primarily with people in their 20s and this was kind of the their 20s and this was kind of the their 20s and this was kind of the mid-2010s and I was reflecting how do I mid-2010s and I was reflecting how do I mid-2010s and I was reflecting how do I reach more people in their 20s how do I reach more people in their 20s how do I reach more people in their 20s how do I connect with them where they're at I connect with them where they're at I connect with them where they're at I mean this is really just incarnational mean this is really just incarnational mean this is really just incarnational Jesus went where we are and we need to Jesus went where we are and we need to Jesus went where we are and we need to go where other people are and I knew go where other people are and I knew go where other people are and I knew that for people in their 20s it was that for people in their 20s it was that for people in their 20s it was social media they were living a lot of social media they were living a lot of social media they were living a lot of their life online and so I began to their life online and so I began to their life online and so I began to develop strategies just to reach people develop strategies just to reach people develop strategies just to reach people in their 20s in our small local in their 20s in our small local in their 20s in our small local community and as I did that we we community and as I did that we we community and as I did that we we started getting more people on our started getting more people on our started getting more people on our church team who were interested more church team who were interested more church team who were interested more broadly as Church how do we use the broadly as Church how do we use the broadly as Church how do we use the internet to reach people for Jesus and internet to reach people for Jesus and internet to reach people for Jesus and then the pandemic hit and I think like a then the pandemic hit and I think like a then the pandemic hit and I think like a lot of people that was kind of both the lot of people that was kind of both the lot of people that was kind of both the and in the beginning because we really and in the beginning because we really and in the beginning because we really had to become agile as an institution had to become agile as an institution had to become agile as an institution and we really changed how we staffed how and we really changed how we staffed how and we really changed how we staffed how we resourced so that we had a group of we resourced so that we had a group of we resourced so that we had a group of people who were dedicated to doing people who were dedicated to doing people who were dedicated to doing online Ministry and I've had the online Ministry and I've had the online Ministry and I've had the blessing and the opportunity to to lead blessing and the opportunity to to lead blessing and the opportunity to to lead that team of people and what we've done that team of people and what we've done that team of people and what we've done since we started that that team in 2019 since we started that that team in 2019 since we started that that team in 2019 and really kicked it off with a pandemic and really kicked it off with a pandemic and really kicked it off with a pandemic in 2020 has has really been uh to be in 2020 has has really been uh to be in 2020 has has really been uh to be honest it's blown my mind it is as far

honest it's blown my mind it is as far honest it's blown my mind it is as far outstripped what we ever imagined uh we outstripped what we ever imagined uh we outstripped what we ever imagined uh we would accomplish and maybe it just helps would accomplish and maybe it just helps would accomplish and maybe it just helps to put some hard numbers on that we lost to put some hard numbers on that we lost to put some hard numbers on that we lost about 30 percent of our church like a about 30 percent of our church like a about 30 percent of our church like a lot of churches during the Pandemic lot of churches during the Pandemic lot of churches during the Pandemic those are people who were angry at us those are people who were angry at us those are people who were angry at us they just fell out of the habit of going they just fell out of the habit of going they just fell out of the habit of going to church and they walked away from to church and they walked away from to church and they walked away from Jesus in the process and what we've had Jesus in the process and what we've had Jesus in the process and what we've had happened since is we've actually grown happened since is we've actually grown happened since is we've actually grown our church by an additional 40 since our church by an additional 40 since our church by an additional 40 since then and a large portion of that has then and a large portion of that has then and a large portion of that has come through what I I would describe as come through what I I would describe as come through what I I would describe as pretty basic pretty easy to do inbound pretty basic pretty easy to do inbound pretty basic pretty easy to do inbound marketing digital media a digital marketing digital media a digital marketing digital media a digital Ministry stuff that really anybody in Ministry stuff that really anybody in Ministry stuff that really anybody in any church could pull off and that's any church could pull off and that's any church could pull off and that's been the on-ramp for people who who been the on-ramp for people who who been the on-ramp for people who who previously dechurched or were unchurched previously dechurched or were unchurched previously dechurched or were unchurched it's been the on-ramp for them to begin it's been the on-ramp for them to begin it's been the on-ramp for them to begin coming in person and that's been really coming in person and that's been really coming in person and that's been really exciting to watch and see hmm okay exciting to watch and see hmm okay exciting to watch and see hmm okay let's let's go a little deeper uh when let's let's go a little deeper uh when let's let's go a little deeper uh when you just say that we started kind of you just say that we started kind of you just say that we started kind of doing this what are you talking about doing this what are you talking about doing this what are you talking about because that's let's unpack that because that's let's unpack that because that's let's unpack that yeah no it's a great question and you yeah no it's a great question and you yeah no it's a great question and you know I I I could start with where we're know I I I could start with where we're know I I I could start with where we're at right now and that would be one thing at right now and that would be one thing at right now and that would be one thing but it's been a flywheel or a snowball but it's been a flywheel or a snowball but it's been a flywheel or a snowball right it's one of those things where the right it's one of those things where the right it's one of those things where the more you do the easier it gets to do more you do the easier it gets to do more you do the easier it gets to do more things over time where we started more things over time where we started more things over time where we started in 2019 was with a podcast uh we knew in 2019 was with a podcast uh we knew in 2019 was with a podcast uh we knew that there were people in our church who that there were people in our church who that there were people in our church who weren't familiar with their Bibles they weren't familiar with their Bibles they weren't familiar with their Bibles they wanted to have a habit of having wanted to have a habit of having wanted to have a habit of having devotions in their daily Walk With Jesus devotions in their daily Walk With Jesus devotions in their daily Walk With Jesus but but they didn't know how to do it but but they didn't know how to do it but but they didn't know how to do it and so I started a podcast with one of and so I started a podcast with one of and so I started a podcast with one of our pastors called 10 minute Bible talks our pastors called 10 minute Bible talks our pastors called 10 minute Bible talks where we did little 10-minute devotions where we did little 10-minute devotions where we did little 10-minute devotions to a week and it was mostly for our

to a week and it was mostly for our to a week and it was mostly for our church and I remember when we started we church and I remember when we started we church and I remember when we started we said okay how many downloads do we need said okay how many downloads do we need said okay how many downloads do we need to to get by the end of this year to to to get by the end of this year to to to get by the end of this year to think gosh this was worth it and I think think gosh this was worth it and I think think gosh this was worth it and I think we said a thousand we did not have a we said a thousand we did not have a we said a thousand we did not have a high Mark of how many people we wanted high Mark of how many people we wanted high Mark of how many people we wanted to do this and today that podcast is to do this and today that podcast is to do this and today that podcast is averaging something like 2 million averaging something like 2 million averaging something like 2 million downloads a year I mean so it's way way downloads a year I mean so it's way way downloads a year I mean so it's way way outstripped but what we realized in the outstripped but what we realized in the outstripped but what we realized in the midst of that was that a podcasting was midst of that was that a podcasting was midst of that was that a podcasting was very much so a one-way conversation and very much so a one-way conversation and very much so a one-way conversation and it didn't always create great on-ramps it didn't always create great on-ramps it didn't always create great on-ramps for people to come and be a part of the for people to come and be a part of the for people to come and be a part of the church and so from that point we really church and so from that point we really church and so from that point we really started focusing again not on anything started focusing again not on anything started focusing again not on anything super technical but on email marketing super technical but on email marketing super technical but on email marketing we completely changed how we did our we completely changed how we did our we completely changed how we did our church newsletter it used to be kind of church newsletter it used to be kind of church newsletter it used to be kind of that classic event list like come here that classic event list like come here that classic event list like come here and here's the eight events happening at and here's the eight events happening at and here's the eight events happening at the church this week and we looked at the church this week and we looked at the church this week and we looked at open rates we looked at click-through open rates we looked at click-through open rates we looked at click-through rates and they were they were abysmal rates and they were they were abysmal rates and they were they were abysmal you know like two percent open rate and you know like two percent open rate and you know like two percent open rate and a fraction of a percent of click-through a fraction of a percent of click-through a fraction of a percent of click-through rates no one was doing it and so we said rates no one was doing it and so we said rates no one was doing it and so we said let's scrap it which was hard I mean let's scrap it which was hard I mean let's scrap it which was hard I mean it's hard politically no I'm not using it's hard politically no I'm not using it's hard politically no I'm not using politics in a bad way but it's hard politics in a bad way but it's hard politics in a bad way but it's hard politically in a church if you're going politically in a church if you're going politically in a church if you're going to go to Ministries who think that this to go to Ministries who think that this to go to Ministries who think that this newsletter is the way that people hear newsletter is the way that people hear newsletter is the way that people hear about their events and the reality is about their events and the reality is about their events and the reality is it's not and we had the numbers to show it's not and we had the numbers to show it's not and we had the numbers to show it to say hey just so you know I mean it to say hey just so you know I mean it to say hey just so you know I mean 100 people look at this and almost no 100 people look at this and almost no 100 people look at this and almost no one clicks it so this isn't helping you one clicks it so this isn't helping you one clicks it so this isn't helping you um and we changed it to a um and we changed it to a um and we changed it to a content-oriented newsletter that was content-oriented newsletter that was content-oriented newsletter that was highlighting every week just one piece highlighting every week just one piece highlighting every week just one piece of content that was going to help people of content that was going to help people of content that was going to help people grow in their Walk With Jesus but the grow in their Walk With Jesus but the grow in their Walk With Jesus but the next step was that content it was housed next step was that content it was housed next step was that content it was housed on our blog those those blog posts on our blog those those blog posts on our blog those those blog posts pointed to in-person events so you know pointed to in-person events so you know pointed to in-person events so you know we would have enough a blog post about we would have enough a blog post about we would have enough a blog post about the importance of Christian Community the importance of Christian Community the importance of Christian Community that would then invite people to come that would then invite people to come that would then invite people to come and be a part of our small group sneak

and be a part of our small group sneak and be a part of our small group sneak peek and what happened over the next peek and what happened over the next peek and what happened over the next three years our blog in that newsletter three years our blog in that newsletter three years our blog in that newsletter have become the primary lead generator have become the primary lead generator have become the primary lead generator for in-person activity and so this for in-person activity and so this for in-person activity and so this newsletter which no one used to read and newsletter which no one used to read and newsletter which no one used to read and no one used to engage with and no one no one used to engage with and no one no one used to engage with and no one got it's now actually become the primary got it's now actually become the primary got it's now actually become the primary generator of in-person activity in our generator of in-person activity in our generator of in-person activity in our church and so of course now people are church and so of course now people are church and so of course now people are thrilled by it they love it this is thrilled by it they love it this is thrilled by it they love it this is amazing I'm so glad we have this amazing I'm so glad we have this amazing I'm so glad we have this newsletter but it was a hard road to get newsletter but it was a hard road to get newsletter but it was a hard road to get there yeah you started with yeah you there yeah you started with yeah you there yeah you started with yeah you just you scrapped it right that's hard just you scrapped it right that's hard just you scrapped it right that's hard to try and convince the Ministries why to try and convince the Ministries why to try and convince the Ministries why we're doing this but you started with we're doing this but you started with we're doing this but you started with going let's let's get rid of that and going let's let's get rid of that and going let's let's get rid of that and just start with content that people can just start with content that people can just start with content that people can absorb something that's going to help absorb something that's going to help absorb something that's going to help them in their walk and that turned into them in their walk and that turned into them in their walk and that turned into more leads of people showing up to other more leads of people showing up to other more leads of people showing up to other events because they wanted more of that events because they wanted more of that events because they wanted more of that yes yes Patrick how can I how can I get yes yes Patrick how can I how can I get yes yes Patrick how can I how can I get on the newsletter list I think I need to on the newsletter list I think I need to on the newsletter list I think I need to receive this newsletter is there a link receive this newsletter is there a link receive this newsletter is there a link on the website or someplace that I can on the website or someplace that I can on the website or someplace that I can go to sign up well if you just go to the go to sign up well if you just go to the go to sign up well if you just go to the thecrossingchurch.com and you go you thecrossingchurch.com and you go you thecrossingchurch.com and you go you land on that webpage and stay there for land on that webpage and stay there for land on that webpage and stay there for just two seconds a little Banner will just two seconds a little Banner will just two seconds a little Banner will pop up that will invite you to uh sign pop up that will invite you to uh sign pop up that will invite you to uh sign up for our newsletter and we we believe up for our newsletter and we we believe up for our newsletter and we we believe that it's not just content it's also that it's not just content it's also that it's not just content it's also data and we are really really data and we are really really data and we are really really intentional about data collection and so intentional about data collection and so intentional about data collection and so when someone signs up for a newsletter when someone signs up for a newsletter when someone signs up for a newsletter they're giving us their name they're they're giving us their name they're they're giving us their name they're giving us their email address and using giving us their email address and using giving us their email address and using our CRM we're able to track their our CRM we're able to track their our CRM we're able to track their activity on our website and so we're activity on our website and so we're activity on our website and so we're able to get a really good idea of who is able to get a really good idea of who is able to get a really good idea of who is this person what's the kind of content this person what's the kind of content this person what's the kind of content that they're interested in and using that they're interested in and using that they're interested in and using smart content to make sure that we're smart content to make sure that we're smart content to make sure that we're delivering them the next piece that's

delivering them the next piece that's delivering them the next piece that's actually going to help them grow on actually going to help them grow on actually going to help them grow on their walk and their Journey with Jesus their walk and their Journey with Jesus their walk and their Journey with Jesus so it's not it's very very strategic and so it's not it's very very strategic and so it's not it's very very strategic and again that interfaces with our church again that interfaces with our church again that interfaces with our church database and so we have all these tools database and so we have all these tools database and so we have all these tools that we've developed I mean really over that we've developed I mean really over that we've developed I mean really over the last three years that that allow us the last three years that that allow us the last three years that that allow us to essentially create a digital uh to essentially create a digital uh to essentially create a digital uh funnel or a digital pathway or digital funnel or a digital pathway or digital funnel or a digital pathway or digital Journey that we can take people on from Journey that we can take people on from Journey that we can take people on from I've never stepped foot inside a church I've never stepped foot inside a church I've never stepped foot inside a church or I've never come to the crossing our or I've never come to the crossing our or I've never come to the crossing our Church to now I am I'm attending on Church to now I am I'm attending on Church to now I am I'm attending on Sundays I'm serving in the children's Sundays I'm serving in the children's Sundays I'm serving in the children's ministry I'm I'm going to small groups ministry I'm I'm going to small groups ministry I'm I'm going to small groups I'm giving I'm giving I'm giving um we we've seen that be a really um we we've seen that be a really um we we've seen that be a really effective way of getting people down the effective way of getting people down the effective way of getting people down the pipe and you're able to uh when you so pipe and you're able to uh when you so pipe and you're able to uh when you so you mentioned something that I think you mentioned something that I think you mentioned something that I think just probably blew right over people's just probably blew right over people's just probably blew right over people's heads I don't understand this heads I don't understand this heads I don't understand this you just mentioned that based on how you you just mentioned that based on how you you just mentioned that based on how you know what do they sign up for or know what do they sign up for or know what do they sign up for or from you're able to track what they're from you're able to track what they're from you're able to track what they're going to do or what they are doing and going to do or what they are doing and going to do or what they are doing and then you're communicating to them things then you're communicating to them things then you're communicating to them things that are relevant to them about what that are relevant to them about what that are relevant to them about what they they they how they got let's just use let's just how they got let's just use let's just how they got let's just use let's just use marriage right so maybe there's a use marriage right so maybe there's a use marriage right so maybe there's a marriage something on a blog post around marriage something on a blog post around marriage something on a blog post around helping to improve your marriage and helping to improve your marriage and helping to improve your marriage and somebody gets on of you on your blog or somebody gets on of you on your blog or somebody gets on of you on your blog or they see a podcast and they sign up for they see a podcast and they sign up for they see a podcast and they sign up for because they want more of that are you because they want more of that are you because they want more of that are you telling me then that you're you're telling me then that you're you're telling me then that you're you're intentional about your communication is intentional about your communication is intentional about your communication is more about that not some other right you more about that not some other right you more about that not some other right you know some kind of left field or know some kind of left field or know some kind of left field or yeah how's that role how does that roll yeah how's that role how does that roll yeah how's that role how does that roll with you guys well so you know and again with you guys well so you know and again with you guys well so you know and again Paris has to do with the size of your Paris has to do with the size of your Paris has to do with the size of your church the amount of resources that you

church the amount of resources that you church the amount of resources that you have we're a large church and and we've have we're a large church and and we've have we're a large church and and we've been blessed with a lot of resources so been blessed with a lot of resources so been blessed with a lot of resources so there's some things we can do that I there's some things we can do that I there's some things we can do that I don't think a smaller Church would have don't think a smaller Church would have don't think a smaller Church would have the resources to be able to do and one the resources to be able to do and one the resources to be able to do and one of those things is we use something of those things is we use something of those things is we use something called smart content which is called smart content which is called smart content which is essentially essentially essentially um your your database is paying um your your database is paying um your your database is paying attention to what people are doing and attention to what people are doing and attention to what people are doing and you're telling the database when they're you're telling the database when they're you're telling the database when they're at this step or this phase this is the at this step or this phase this is the at this step or this phase this is the next piece of content we want to deliver next piece of content we want to deliver next piece of content we want to deliver to them so let me make this a little to them so let me make this a little to them so let me make this a little more concrete let's say that I I land on more concrete let's say that I I land on more concrete let's say that I I land on the crossings website and and we know the crossings website and and we know the crossings website and and we know that you've never done anything here that you've never done anything here that you've never done anything here before we're using cookies so so you're before we're using cookies so so you're before we're using cookies so so you're brand new and you end up signing up for brand new and you end up signing up for brand new and you end up signing up for the newsletter well I know that at that the newsletter well I know that at that the newsletter well I know that at that phase you're probably not at at the step phase you're probably not at at the step phase you're probably not at at the step or the point in your journey where or the point in your journey where or the point in your journey where you're ready to come in person and so I you're ready to come in person and so I you're ready to come in person and so I want to make sure that the content and want to make sure that the content and want to make sure that the content and the things that I'm offering you are the things that I'm offering you are the things that I'm offering you are more digital their content oriented and more digital their content oriented and more digital their content oriented and once you have a certain once you've done once you have a certain once you've done once you have a certain once you've done a certain amount on our website then we a certain amount on our website then we a certain amount on our website then we can make the transition to saying hey can make the transition to saying hey can make the transition to saying hey you're reading all these blog posts on you're reading all these blog posts on you're reading all these blog posts on marriage we have a marriage class coming marriage we have a marriage class coming marriage we have a marriage class coming up and now you're actually ready so up and now you're actually ready so up and now you're actually ready so essentially it's about cold leads versus essentially it's about cold leads versus essentially it's about cold leads versus hot leads and if you track if you're hot leads and if you track if you're hot leads and if you track if you're tracking people and what they're doing tracking people and what they're doing tracking people and what they're doing on the website you can give them hot on the website you can give them hot on the website you can give them hot leads but again even if you're a small leads but again even if you're a small leads but again even if you're a small Church you don't have to be able to do Church you don't have to be able to do Church you don't have to be able to do this to to to Really create on-ramps I this to to to Really create on-ramps I this to to to Really create on-ramps I mean we've just recently started doing mean we've just recently started doing mean we've just recently started doing this stuff and we were already seeing this stuff and we were already seeing this stuff and we were already seeing tremendous results before we were tremendous results before we were tremendous results before we were getting uh using smart content yeah yeah getting uh using smart content yeah yeah getting uh using smart content yeah yeah if you mentioned 40 percent if you mentioned 40 percent if you mentioned 40 percent in in-person growth in-person growth in in-person growth in-person growth in in-person growth in-person growth yeah yeah not to mention the amount of yeah yeah not to mention the amount of yeah yeah not to mention the amount of people you're reaching online that have people you're reaching online that have people you're reaching online that have yet to show up but they're tuned in and

yet to show up but they're tuned in and yet to show up but they're tuned in and they're watching yeah yeah go ahead I they're watching yeah yeah go ahead I they're watching yeah yeah go ahead I was gonna say you're you're you are I was gonna say you're you're you are I was gonna say you're you're you are I think you're tearing apart another think you're tearing apart another think you're tearing apart another presupposition that a lot of churches presupposition that a lot of churches presupposition that a lot of churches and a lot of church leaders have which and a lot of church leaders have which and a lot of church leaders have which is if somebody lands on my Church is if somebody lands on my Church is if somebody lands on my Church website maybe they've clicked an ad website maybe they've clicked an ad website maybe they've clicked an ad they've seen a post on social media if they've seen a post on social media if they've seen a post on social media if they come to read a blog post or read they come to read a blog post or read they come to read a blog post or read about some Ministry you're basically about some Ministry you're basically about some Ministry you're basically saying you don't believe that that saying you don't believe that that saying you don't believe that that person is always ready to show up at person is always ready to show up at person is always ready to show up at church on Sunday morning that there's church on Sunday morning that there's church on Sunday morning that there's actually something else that we need to actually something else that we need to actually something else that we need to do to cultivate that relationship to do to cultivate that relationship to do to cultivate that relationship to nurture that relationship to move them nurture that relationship to move them nurture that relationship to move them towards weekend attendance I think towards weekend attendance I think towards weekend attendance I think that's a that's a game changer for a lot that's a that's a game changer for a lot that's a that's a game changer for a lot of church leaders can you expound on of church leaders can you expound on of church leaders can you expound on that a little bit well I I would put it that a little bit well I I would put it that a little bit well I I would put it this way we're living in a this way we're living in a this way we're living in a post-christian culture and what I mean post-christian culture and what I mean post-christian culture and what I mean when I say that is that there is a large when I say that is that there is a large when I say that is that there is a large proportion of our population that either proportion of our population that either proportion of our population that either has no church experience or has D Church has no church experience or has D Church has no church experience or has D Church they have left the church behind in fact they have left the church behind in fact they have left the church behind in fact there's a study that's coming out and we there's a study that's coming out and we there's a study that's coming out and we helped fund it we were a part of it and helped fund it we were a part of it and helped fund it we were a part of it and so I've got some of the the early so I've got some of the the early so I've got some of the the early insights from it we are going through insights from it we are going through insights from it we are going through the largest religious shift in American the largest religious shift in American the largest religious shift in American history right now but for the first time history right now but for the first time history right now but for the first time it's a shift away from the church it's a shift away from the church it's a shift away from the church there's never been a shift away from the there's never been a shift away from the there's never been a shift away from the church at this size and this magnitude church at this size and this magnitude church at this size and this magnitude there's been shifts towards the church there's been shifts towards the church there's been shifts towards the church that near this size magnitude in the that near this size magnitude in the that near this size magnitude in the past and so what does that tell us well past and so what does that tell us well past and so what does that tell us well these people who are de-churching these people who are de-churching these people who are de-churching they're actually not leaving for the they're actually not leaving for the they're actually not leaving for the most part because they're angry or most part because they're angry or most part because they're angry or because they're hurt there's some people because they're hurt there's some people because they're hurt there's some people like that and that's what pastors tend like that and that's what pastors tend like that and that's what pastors tend to think of because when those people to think of because when those people to think of because when those people leave our church they're loud and it's leave our church they're loud and it's leave our church they're loud and it's often painful conversations that you often painful conversations that you often painful conversations that you know they they sit kind of largely in

know they they sit kind of largely in know they they sit kind of largely in our mind the average person leaving just our mind the average person leaving just our mind the average person leaving just kind of stops they they just get out of kind of stops they they just get out of kind of stops they they just get out of a habit they they just drift off from a habit they they just drift off from a habit they they just drift off from the church and what's really encouraging the church and what's really encouraging the church and what's really encouraging is that these D church people which are is that these D church people which are is that these D church people which are make up about a quarter of America's make up about a quarter of America's make up about a quarter of America's population by the way these D church population by the way these D church population by the way these D church people are very open to coming back to people are very open to coming back to people are very open to coming back to church they actually see and understand church they actually see and understand church they actually see and understand my life was better when I was walking my life was better when I was walking my life was better when I was walking with Jesus I miss having times of with Jesus I miss having times of with Jesus I miss having times of worship having Rich Community they know worship having Rich Community they know worship having Rich Community they know what they're missing out on they just what they're missing out on they just what they're missing out on they just need an invitation they just need an need an invitation they just need an need an invitation they just need an on-ramp and so that's why we again this on-ramp and so that's why we again this on-ramp and so that's why we again this is really basic stuff our number one way is really basic stuff our number one way is really basic stuff our number one way that we've brought D church people back that we've brought D church people back that we've brought D church people back into our church are email devotionals so into our church are email devotionals so into our church are email devotionals so every Christmas every Easter a few other every Christmas every Easter a few other every Christmas every Easter a few other times throughout the year we we use times throughout the year we we use times throughout the year we we use Facebook ads to basically promote Facebook ads to basically promote Facebook ads to basically promote devotional content so here's our Advent devotional content so here's our Advent devotional content so here's our Advent devotional and you'll get five devotional and you'll get five devotional and you'll get five devotionals a week up through Advent and devotionals a week up through Advent and devotionals a week up through Advent and this is a huge way that we've reached this is a huge way that we've reached this is a huge way that we've reached e-church people and because we're e-church people and because we're e-church people and because we're tracking them we're actually able to tracking them we're actually able to tracking them we're actually able to using meta create look-alike audiences using meta create look-alike audiences using meta create look-alike audiences so so we know hey here's this pile of D so so we know hey here's this pile of D so so we know hey here's this pile of D church people who have now come to the church people who have now come to the church people who have now come to the crossing let's find other people who crossing let's find other people who crossing let's find other people who look exactly like them in our local look exactly like them in our local look exactly like them in our local community and reach them with more ads community and reach them with more ads community and reach them with more ads and so every year like it's like a and so every year like it's like a and so every year like it's like a flywheel you know the first year it was flywheel you know the first year it was flywheel you know the first year it was a hundred people the next year was a a hundred people the next year was a a hundred people the next year was a thousand then it was 3 000 this year thousand then it was 3 000 this year thousand then it was 3 000 this year it's going to be 9 000. it's it's so as it's going to be 9 000. it's it's so as it's going to be 9 000. it's it's so as again we've just figured out that if you again we've just figured out that if you again we've just figured out that if you you can reach people where they're at you can reach people where they're at you can reach people where they're at and they're already open to coming to and they're already open to coming to and they're already open to coming to church yeah you might have to start with church yeah you might have to start with church yeah you might have to start with them online because they're they know them online because they're they know them online because they're they know how to go to church if they're D Church how to go to church if they're D Church how to go to church if they're D Church they just haven't made that step now for

they just haven't made that step now for they just haven't made that step now for people who are unchurched you know maybe people who are unchurched you know maybe people who are unchurched you know maybe these are gen Z who had Gen X parents these are gen Z who had Gen X parents these are gen Z who had Gen X parents who stopped going to church and so they who stopped going to church and so they who stopped going to church and so they never grew up in church again I mean never grew up in church again I mean never grew up in church again I mean first of all this is a a a generation first of all this is a a a generation first of all this is a a a generation has a tremendous social anxiety so the has a tremendous social anxiety so the has a tremendous social anxiety so the idea I mean when's the last time you idea I mean when's the last time you idea I mean when's the last time you walked into a building that did a thing walked into a building that did a thing walked into a building that did a thing that you didn't know what the thing was that you didn't know what the thing was that you didn't know what the thing was and you felt comfortable doing that for and you felt comfortable doing that for and you felt comfortable doing that for most of us it's like years ago or a most of us it's like years ago or a most of us it's like years ago or a decade ago I mean we can't remember the decade ago I mean we can't remember the decade ago I mean we can't remember the last time and so we have to help warm last time and so we have to help warm last time and so we have to help warm them up to the experience and now it's them up to the experience and now it's them up to the experience and now it's not just digital I mean this happens not just digital I mean this happens not just digital I mean this happens through relationships it happens through through relationships it happens through through relationships it happens through friendships but think about the blessing friendships but think about the blessing friendships but think about the blessing you give your church when you're you give your church when you're you give your church when you're creating boatloads of content so that creating boatloads of content so that creating boatloads of content so that they can text this blog to a friend who they can text this blog to a friend who they can text this blog to a friend who never goes to church and says hey I know never goes to church and says hey I know never goes to church and says hey I know you're battling anxiety right now and you're battling anxiety right now and you're battling anxiety right now and you know I know you're not really a you know I know you're not really a you know I know you're not really a person of Faith but this article really person of Faith but this article really person of Faith but this article really helped me with my anxiety love it if helped me with my anxiety love it if helped me with my anxiety love it if you'd read it and we could talk about it you'd read it and we could talk about it you'd read it and we could talk about it sometime if you can resource your church sometime if you can resource your church sometime if you can resource your church with digital content that's going to with digital content that's going to with digital content that's going to draw those people in draw those people in draw those people in do you guys do do you guys do do you guys do um take it a step further so we're kind um take it a step further so we're kind um take it a step further so we're kind of talking about a funnel yes right here of talking about a funnel yes right here of talking about a funnel yes right here right and that's a kind of a key phrase right and that's a kind of a key phrase right and that's a kind of a key phrase because you know you're not going to get because you know you're not going to get because you know you're not going to get everybody but you know people that land everybody but you know people that land everybody but you know people that land on your website or get you you capture on your website or get you you capture on your website or get you you capture you know at some point you capture a you know at some point you capture a you know at some point you capture a name and an email maybe even a cell name and an email maybe even a cell name and an email maybe even a cell phone you know and you keep moving them phone you know and you keep moving them phone you know and you keep moving them down to where then now they are down to where then now they are down to where then now they are attending right so that's like a funnel attending right so that's like a funnel attending right so that's like a funnel yeah do you guys at some point take the yeah do you guys at some point take the yeah do you guys at some point take the extra step to call or try and engage and extra step to call or try and engage and extra step to call or try and engage and meet face to face with people you know meet face to face with people you know meet face to face with people you know that I I think one of the beauties of

that I I think one of the beauties of that I I think one of the beauties of doing digital uh marketing and digital doing digital uh marketing and digital doing digital uh marketing and digital Ministry inside of a church is that you Ministry inside of a church is that you Ministry inside of a church is that you should I hope have people on your staff should I hope have people on your staff should I hope have people on your staff who are very much so handling the who are very much so handling the who are very much so handling the in-person aspect and so we're always in-person aspect and so we're always in-person aspect and so we're always looking what's the point at which we looking what's the point at which we looking what's the point at which we kind of hand people off from the online kind of hand people off from the online kind of hand people off from the online experience to the in-person experience experience to the in-person experience experience to the in-person experience and I like to say that people vote with and I like to say that people vote with and I like to say that people vote with their feet they're going to tell you their feet they're going to tell you their feet they're going to tell you when they're ready it's going to be when they're ready it's going to be when they're ready it's going to be signing up for something it's going to signing up for something it's going to signing up for something it's going to be showing up at something so we're not be showing up at something so we're not be showing up at something so we're not trying to be pushy or aggressive about trying to be pushy or aggressive about trying to be pushy or aggressive about things you brought up cell phones so things you brought up cell phones so things you brought up cell phones so this is an interesting example typically this is an interesting example typically this is an interesting example typically we don't collect cell phone numbers we don't collect cell phone numbers we don't collect cell phone numbers because that dramatically reduced the because that dramatically reduced the because that dramatically reduced the amount of people who were willing to amount of people who were willing to amount of people who were willing to fill out forms so we weren't we're fill out forms so we weren't we're fill out forms so we weren't we're getting zero content instead of a little getting zero content instead of a little getting zero content instead of a little less sorry zero contact information less sorry zero contact information less sorry zero contact information versus a little less which would just be versus a little less which would just be versus a little less which would just be name and email but this is a cool story name and email but this is a cool story name and email but this is a cool story our College Ministry they went on campus our College Ministry they went on campus our College Ministry they went on campus and they did this free promotion thing and they did this free promotion thing and they did this free promotion thing where I can't I think they're giving where I can't I think they're giving where I can't I think they're giving away Chick-fil-A sandwiches something away Chick-fil-A sandwiches something away Chick-fil-A sandwiches something like that and to get it they people had like that and to get it they people had like that and to get it they people had to give their their name their email and to give their their name their email and to give their their name their email and their cell phone number and then they their cell phone number and then they their cell phone number and then they used texting to invite these college used texting to invite these college used texting to invite these college students who were a lot of them freshmen students who were a lot of them freshmen students who were a lot of them freshmen to come and be a part of the first few to come and be a part of the first few to come and be a part of the first few meetings of the college Ministry and meetings of the college Ministry and meetings of the college Ministry and these were by far the largest meetings these were by far the largest meetings these were by far the largest meetings our College Ministry had experienced our College Ministry had experienced our College Ministry had experienced ever period I mean we're talking about ever period I mean we're talking about ever period I mean we're talking about somewhere between four and five hundred somewhere between four and five hundred somewhere between four and five hundred college students coming to check this college students coming to check this college students coming to check this out and a lot of them stuck around right out and a lot of them stuck around right out and a lot of them stuck around right because once they came once they voted because once they came once they voted because once they came once they voted with their feet they had a team of with their feet they had a team of with their feet they had a team of people who were there ready to welcome people who were there ready to welcome people who were there ready to welcome others to say hey come sit with me to others to say hey come sit with me to others to say hey come sit with me to build relations ships and so it's really build relations ships and so it's really build relations ships and so it's really a partnership between the in-person team

a partnership between the in-person team a partnership between the in-person team that's building out systems to make sure that's building out systems to make sure that's building out systems to make sure people are cared for and the digital people are cared for and the digital people are cared for and the digital team that's making sure they're creating team that's making sure they're creating team that's making sure they're creating on-ramp so that people can go from on-ramp so that people can go from on-ramp so that people can go from online to in person oh I love that I online to in person oh I love that I online to in person oh I love that I love that on-ramp uh just picture right love that on-ramp uh just picture right love that on-ramp uh just picture right and I think most churches don't they and I think most churches don't they and I think most churches don't they don't quite have that it's still too don't quite have that it's still too don't quite have that it's still too fuzzy in their head they think if they fuzzy in their head they think if they fuzzy in their head they think if they just sew their sermon up on YouTube just sew their sermon up on YouTube just sew their sermon up on YouTube we're pretty a bunch of people walking we're pretty a bunch of people walking we're pretty a bunch of people walking through our doors it's like well that's through our doors it's like well that's through our doors it's like well that's good I'm glad you did that but there's a good I'm glad you did that but there's a good I'm glad you did that but there's a whole lot more other steps whole lot more other steps whole lot more other steps um so you've mentioned that you you know um so you've mentioned that you you know um so you've mentioned that you you know I was just going through your through I was just going through your through I was just going through your through the numbers a little bit and you know the numbers a little bit and you know the numbers a little bit and you know 365 plus podcast episodes 100 plus blog 365 plus podcast episodes 100 plus blog 365 plus podcast episodes 100 plus blog posts 100 plus newsletters over a posts 100 plus newsletters over a posts 100 plus newsletters over a hundred different videos now you didn't hundred different videos now you didn't hundred different videos now you didn't do this overnight you said you've been do this overnight you said you've been do this overnight you said you've been doing this for three years so what would doing this for three years so what would doing this for three years so what would be your advice to a church that goes you be your advice to a church that goes you be your advice to a church that goes you know we we've dabbled in it but we never know we we've dabbled in it but we never know we we've dabbled in it but we never got serious about it like what caused got serious about it like what caused got serious about it like what caused you guys to go yeah we're gonna not only you guys to go yeah we're gonna not only you guys to go yeah we're gonna not only get serious about this with a bunch of get serious about this with a bunch of get serious about this with a bunch of money and a bunch of talent we're gonna money and a bunch of talent we're gonna money and a bunch of talent we're gonna get a news like a new space like what get a news like a new space like what get a news like a new space like what would you what kind of advice would you would you what kind of advice would you would you what kind of advice would you give to a church that's going yeah how give to a church that's going yeah how give to a church that's going yeah how do we get into this well maybe let me do we get into this well maybe let me do we get into this well maybe let me talk to the to the one person in the talk to the to the one person in the talk to the to the one person in the church who says we need to do this okay church who says we need to do this okay church who says we need to do this okay and everybody else is like gosh that and everybody else is like gosh that and everybody else is like gosh that sounds great but that's not that sounds great but that's not that sounds great but that's not that important we can figure that out later important we can figure that out later important we can figure that out later and to that one person I would just say and to that one person I would just say and to that one person I would just say this the proof is always in the pudding this the proof is always in the pudding this the proof is always in the pudding and so if you can start small and show and so if you can start small and show and so if you can start small and show measurable quantifiable results to the measurable quantifiable results to the measurable quantifiable results to the people who are in charge that's going to people who are in charge that's going to people who are in charge that's going to be the thing that changes their mind the be the thing that changes their mind the be the thing that changes their mind the goal isn't to say oh I heard this church

goal isn't to say oh I heard this church goal isn't to say oh I heard this church and they're releasing one podcast every and they're releasing one podcast every and they're releasing one podcast every day essentially and now we've got to do day essentially and now we've got to do day essentially and now we've got to do that well that would be absurd we that that well that would be absurd we that that well that would be absurd we that is not where we started I already said is not where we started I already said is not where we started I already said we started with one podcast two times a we started with one podcast two times a we started with one podcast two times a week and that might even be too much week and that might even be too much week and that might even be too much um here's what I would say to that um here's what I would say to that um here's what I would say to that person the first thing is this we were person the first thing is this we were person the first thing is this we were talking about putting sermons on on the talking about putting sermons on on the talking about putting sermons on on the Internet or or live streams uh this Internet or or live streams uh this Internet or or live streams uh this might be an unpopular view I do not might be an unpopular view I do not might be an unpopular view I do not think that Sunday Centric content or think that Sunday Centric content or think that Sunday Centric content or live streams are really the heart of a live streams are really the heart of a live streams are really the heart of a digital Ministry or even Church digital Ministry or even Church digital Ministry or even Church marketing I understand the appeal marketing I understand the appeal marketing I understand the appeal because you've got a pastor who is because you've got a pastor who is because you've got a pastor who is creating content essentially every creating content essentially every creating content essentially every Sunday morning so why not pull from it Sunday morning so why not pull from it Sunday morning so why not pull from it but my whole thing is and it's just our but my whole thing is and it's just our but my whole thing is and it's just our Church's mentality we're not trying to Church's mentality we're not trying to Church's mentality we're not trying to turn our pastors into celebrities turn our pastors into celebrities turn our pastors into celebrities um we're not trying to make everything um we're not trying to make everything um we're not trying to make everything about the pastor we we we are a Luke about the pastor we we we are a Luke about the pastor we we we are a Luke Skywalker we're Obi-Wan Kenobi Okay so Skywalker we're Obi-Wan Kenobi Okay so Skywalker we're Obi-Wan Kenobi Okay so our job is to come alongside people out our job is to come alongside people out our job is to come alongside people out in the community and be a guide be a be in the community and be a guide be a be in the community and be a guide be a be a mentor and help them along and I think a mentor and help them along and I think a mentor and help them along and I think the best way to do that is give them the best way to do that is give them the best way to do that is give them content that's actually native to content that's actually native to content that's actually native to whatever platform they're on and is whatever platform they're on and is whatever platform they're on and is actually engaging the questions or the actually engaging the questions or the actually engaging the questions or the problems that they're facing and while problems that they're facing and while problems that they're facing and while sermons are great they're never native sermons are great they're never native sermons are great they're never native and they often because they have to and they often because they have to and they often because they have to speak to a lot of people they're not speak to a lot of people they're not speak to a lot of people they're not Niche or targeted enough to speak to Niche or targeted enough to speak to Niche or targeted enough to speak to very specific needs on a consistent very specific needs on a consistent very specific needs on a consistent basis so what I would say to this person basis so what I would say to this person basis so what I would say to this person is just start here what's one big need is just start here what's one big need is just start here what's one big need that you see in your church maybe your that you see in your church maybe your that you see in your church maybe your church is having a huge amount of mental church is having a huge amount of mental church is having a huge amount of mental health issues or maybe your church has a health issues or maybe your church has a health issues or maybe your church has a deficit of biblical knowledge or maybe deficit of biblical knowledge or maybe deficit of biblical knowledge or maybe your church is really interested in your church is really interested in your church is really interested in prayer and spiritual disciplines but no

prayer and spiritual disciplines but no prayer and spiritual disciplines but no one seems to know how to lead it what's one seems to know how to lead it what's one seems to know how to lead it what's a problem that you hear people a problem that you hear people a problem that you hear people consistently talking about in your consistently talking about in your consistently talking about in your church and once you have the problem you church and once you have the problem you church and once you have the problem you can create a Target Persona around it can create a Target Persona around it can create a Target Persona around it like an imaginary person and and you say like an imaginary person and and you say like an imaginary person and and you say okay for this imaginary person I've okay for this imaginary person I've okay for this imaginary person I've created what's the content that's going created what's the content that's going created what's the content that's going to help them in their Walk With Jesus to help them in their Walk With Jesus to help them in their Walk With Jesus maybe it's a pod maybe it's a a Blog I maybe it's a pod maybe it's a a Blog I maybe it's a pod maybe it's a a Blog I wouldn't recommend doing video simply wouldn't recommend doing video simply wouldn't recommend doing video simply because it takes a lot of work and so because it takes a lot of work and so because it takes a lot of work and so those two are a little easier to get those two are a little easier to get those two are a little easier to get started on podcasting and blogging and started on podcasting and blogging and started on podcasting and blogging and then I would recommend you you come up then I would recommend you you come up then I would recommend you you come up with a test idea you you record a few with a test idea you you record a few with a test idea you you record a few episodes you send out those episodes to episodes you send out those episodes to episodes you send out those episodes to people to get feedback use that feedback people to get feedback use that feedback people to get feedback use that feedback to improve it and then you actually to improve it and then you actually to improve it and then you actually launch it and once you launch this is launch it and once you launch this is launch it and once you launch this is the key consistency I know so many the key consistency I know so many the key consistency I know so many churches that they they get a podcast or churches that they they get a podcast or churches that they they get a podcast or a Blog started and they run for a month a Blog started and they run for a month a Blog started and they run for a month and then it just kind of falls off the and then it just kind of falls off the and then it just kind of falls off the Wayside this is a flywheel your first Wayside this is a flywheel your first Wayside this is a flywheel your first month is is you're just you're pushing month is is you're just you're pushing month is is you're just you're pushing this really heavy Rock and you can this really heavy Rock and you can this really heavy Rock and you can barely get it to go but the longer you barely get it to go but the longer you barely get it to go but the longer you push it the the more momentum that rock push it the the more momentum that rock push it the the more momentum that rock gets the easier it is to push and so you gets the easier it is to push and so you gets the easier it is to push and so you have to really commit yourself at least have to really commit yourself at least have to really commit yourself at least for a year saying for a year I'm going for a year saying for a year I'm going for a year saying for a year I'm going to release one podcast every week you to release one podcast every week you to release one podcast every week you know come what may I'm going to be like know come what may I'm going to be like know come what may I'm going to be like the US Postal Service it doesn't matter the US Postal Service it doesn't matter the US Postal Service it doesn't matter if it's raining it doesn't matter if if it's raining it doesn't matter if if it's raining it doesn't matter if it's snow this podcast is showing up and it's snow this podcast is showing up and it's snow this podcast is showing up and set a benchmark like if we can hit this set a benchmark like if we can hit this set a benchmark like if we can hit this number of downloads in a year this made number of downloads in a year this made number of downloads in a year this made it worth the resources that we put in it worth the resources that we put in it worth the resources that we put in give yourself that year see if you hit give yourself that year see if you hit give yourself that year see if you hit your benchmark if you didn't okay drop your benchmark if you didn't okay drop your benchmark if you didn't okay drop it it wasn't the right thing for your it it wasn't the right thing for your it it wasn't the right thing for your church but my guess is you will not only church but my guess is you will not only church but my guess is you will not only hit your benchmark unless you were you

hit your benchmark unless you were you hit your benchmark unless you were you know outrageously ambitious know outrageously ambitious know outrageously ambitious um you'll probably supersede it um you'll probably supersede it um you'll probably supersede it hey Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hey Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hey Bart Blair here I'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in at missional marketing we're tuning in at missional marketing we're tuning in at missional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach more people for Jesus online and one of more people for Jesus online and one of more people for Jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the Google ad their website utilizing the Google ad their website utilizing the Google ad Grant Google offers qualifying Grant Google offers qualifying Grant Google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website admissionalmarketing.com and click the admissionalmarketing.com and click the admissionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says Google grants we'd love an opportunity Google grants we'd love an opportunity Google grants we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your mission to to partner with you in your mission to to partner with you in your mission to build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show what podcast and now back to the show what podcast and now back to the show what has been your has been your has been your this is kind of a personal question this is kind of a personal question this is kind of a personal question what's been the topic or the felt need what's been the topic or the felt need what's been the topic or the felt need that you feel like was the most that you feel like was the most that you feel like was the most impactful impactful impactful uh I mean we we've had so many and so uh I mean we we've had so many and so uh I mean we we've had so many and so it's hard for me to pick one because it's hard for me to pick one because it's hard for me to pick one because they've all been impactful in their own they've all been impactful in their own they've all been impactful in their own ways ways ways um one thing I think a lot of churches um one thing I think a lot of churches um one thing I think a lot of churches could start even with uh a pastor in could start even with uh a pastor in could start even with uh a pastor in combination with uh with a combination with uh with a combination with uh with a Communications person it's just biblical Communications person it's just biblical Communications person it's just biblical literacy I think the average pastor literacy I think the average pastor literacy I think the average pastor wants people in their Church to spend wants people in their Church to spend wants people in their Church to spend more time in the Bible steal our idea more time in the Bible steal our idea more time in the Bible steal our idea start a little once a week podcast where start a little once a week podcast where start a little once a week podcast where you do a 10 minute devotion on a Bible you do a 10 minute devotion on a Bible you do a 10 minute devotion on a Bible passage and tell people in your church

passage and tell people in your church passage and tell people in your church about it and again I think you'll be about it and again I think you'll be about it and again I think you'll be surprised how many people download it surprised how many people download it surprised how many people download it how many of them are going to listen to how many of them are going to listen to how many of them are going to listen to it while they're doing the dishes or it while they're doing the dishes or it while they're doing the dishes or they're on a run or they're on their they're on a run or they're on their they're on a run or they're on their commute they're they're going to engage commute they're they're going to engage commute they're they're going to engage with it and all of a sudden you'll with it and all of a sudden you'll with it and all of a sudden you'll realize I've just become a parish Pastor realize I've just become a parish Pastor realize I've just become a parish Pastor you know like back in the old days when you know like back in the old days when you know like back in the old days when a pastor could walk around to people's a pastor could walk around to people's a pastor could walk around to people's workplaces and houses and check and workplaces and houses and check and workplaces and houses and check and check in on them well now you're doing check in on them well now you're doing check in on them well now you're doing that digitally you're becoming a part of that digitally you're becoming a part of that digitally you're becoming a part of their life in between Sundays you're their life in between Sundays you're their life in between Sundays you're reclaiming some of the time from whether reclaiming some of the time from whether reclaiming some of the time from whether it's CNN or Fox News or Facebook or it's CNN or Fox News or Facebook or it's CNN or Fox News or Facebook or whatever it is they're on Eureka whatever it is they're on Eureka whatever it is they're on Eureka claiming some of that for Jesus and so claiming some of that for Jesus and so claiming some of that for Jesus and so that would be a major one that I think that would be a major one that I think that would be a major one that I think almost all churches could do people want almost all churches could do people want almost all churches could do people want to spend more time in their Bible they to spend more time in their Bible they to spend more time in their Bible they need guidance and pastors have the need guidance and pastors have the need guidance and pastors have the ability to do that so let me ask you ability to do that so let me ask you ability to do that so let me ask you this because really so we just met I this because really so we just met I this because really so we just met I I've not talked to Patrick before so I've not talked to Patrick before so I've not talked to Patrick before so full disclosure I haven't listed in your full disclosure I haven't listed in your full disclosure I haven't listed in your podcast yet podcast yet podcast yet the keyword there yet so I'm gonna I'm the keyword there yet so I'm gonna I'm the keyword there yet so I'm gonna I'm gonna go listen to something I I will gonna go listen to something I I will gonna go listen to something I I will say I I I have I just want to clarify say I I I have I just want to clarify say I I I have I just want to clarify because I'm the one I'm the one I'm the because I'm the one I'm the one I'm the because I'm the one I'm the one I'm the one that booked Patrick on the show and one that booked Patrick on the show and one that booked Patrick on the show and I've listened to a few episodes of of I've listened to a few episodes of of I've listened to a few episodes of of Truth over tribe but not really any of Truth over tribe but not really any of Truth over tribe but not really any of the church stuff so I'm big okay sorry the church stuff so I'm big okay sorry the church stuff so I'm big okay sorry for interrupting so you for interrupting so you for interrupting so you um that's a great I love that idea like um that's a great I love that idea like um that's a great I love that idea like 10 minutes in the Bible what do you do 10 minutes in the Bible what do you do 10 minutes in the Bible what do you do at the end of your episode to what's the at the end of your episode to what's the at the end of your episode to what's the call to action call to action call to action yeah that's a great question yeah that's a great question yeah that's a great question um again this is going to be different um again this is going to be different um again this is going to be different uh depending on the church uh depending on the church uh depending on the church um podcasting let me tell you about the um podcasting let me tell you about the um podcasting let me tell you about the pros and cons of podcasting uh pros of pros and cons of podcasting uh pros of pros and cons of podcasting uh pros of podcasting uh especially if you're in a

podcasting uh especially if you're in a podcasting uh especially if you're in a college educated environment podcasting college educated environment podcasting college educated environment podcasting has grown tremendously you have a lot of has grown tremendously you have a lot of has grown tremendously you have a lot of people in your congregation who are people in your congregation who are people in your congregation who are listening to podcasts again if you're in listening to podcasts again if you're in listening to podcasts again if you're in a mostly college educated environment a mostly college educated environment a mostly college educated environment that would be less the case if your that would be less the case if your that would be less the case if your congregation is maybe more High School congregation is maybe more High School congregation is maybe more High School educated so again I'm just saying that educated so again I'm just saying that educated so again I'm just saying that you need to know who your people are the you need to know who your people are the you need to know who your people are the downside of podcast is you get download downside of podcast is you get download downside of podcast is you get download numbers you really don't get much data numbers you really don't get much data numbers you really don't get much data beyond that and so it can be really hard beyond that and so it can be really hard beyond that and so it can be really hard to track what's happening with those to track what's happening with those to track what's happening with those people and so for us with our podcast people and so for us with our podcast people and so for us with our podcast our major goal is exposure and so what our major goal is exposure and so what our major goal is exposure and so what we do at the end of every podcast is we do at the end of every podcast is we do at the end of every podcast is just tell people hey um obviously you've just tell people hey um obviously you've just tell people hey um obviously you've got the the like And subscribe but got the the like And subscribe but got the the like And subscribe but actually the bigger thing is telling actually the bigger thing is telling actually the bigger thing is telling people to text the episode to a friend people to text the episode to a friend people to text the episode to a friend we've learned over time because we can we've learned over time because we can we've learned over time because we can see this that the number one way people see this that the number one way people see this that the number one way people share our podcast episodes is via text share our podcast episodes is via text share our podcast episodes is via text messages now I like to think who are messages now I like to think who are messages now I like to think who are they texting this to well they're they texting this to well they're they texting this to well they're probably texting it to family members to probably texting it to family members to probably texting it to family members to friends maybe to people who are outside friends maybe to people who are outside friends maybe to people who are outside the church isn't that exactly what you the church isn't that exactly what you the church isn't that exactly what you want isn't that exactly the way that want isn't that exactly the way that want isn't that exactly the way that you're going to reach people and pull you're going to reach people and pull you're going to reach people and pull them in if Joe who's listening to 10 them in if Joe who's listening to 10 them in if Joe who's listening to 10 minute Bible talks sends it off to John minute Bible talks sends it off to John minute Bible talks sends it off to John in his office who doesn't really go to in his office who doesn't really go to in his office who doesn't really go to church but is kind of interested in some church but is kind of interested in some church but is kind of interested in some Jesus stuff maybe well that might be the Jesus stuff maybe well that might be the Jesus stuff maybe well that might be the way John says oh that was a great way John says oh that was a great way John says oh that was a great episode I've started listening to this episode I've started listening to this episode I've started listening to this and he says well that those people and he says well that those people and he says well that those people they're actually the pastors of my they're actually the pastors of my they're actually the pastors of my church you should come to church church you should come to church church you should come to church sometime and see what it's like so it's sometime and see what it's like so it's sometime and see what it's like so it's easy to imagine the on-ramp there with easy to imagine the on-ramp there with easy to imagine the on-ramp there with with podcasting so that's why I say with podcasting so that's why I say with podcasting so that's why I say texting is usually the emphasis I would texting is usually the emphasis I would texting is usually the emphasis I would want to put in the foreground are you want to put in the foreground are you want to put in the foreground are you tracking when somebody does text that tracking when somebody does text that tracking when somebody does text that and how do you do that yeah well so

and how do you do that yeah well so and how do you do that yeah well so again this is the weakness of podcast again this is the weakness of podcast again this is the weakness of podcast podcast because they exist on so many podcast because they exist on so many podcast because they exist on so many different platforms and every platform different platforms and every platform different platforms and every platform uh collects data in a different way you uh collects data in a different way you uh collects data in a different way you really don't have a lot of access to really don't have a lot of access to really don't have a lot of access to information around what's happening information around what's happening information around what's happening um thankfully Spotify does track how um thankfully Spotify does track how um thankfully Spotify does track how people share your episode so that's people share your episode so that's people share your episode so that's where I'm getting this texting thing where I'm getting this texting thing where I'm getting this texting thing from is at the end of the year Spotify from is at the end of the year Spotify from is at the end of the year Spotify will give you a readout on hey here's will give you a readout on hey here's will give you a readout on hey here's the ways that people shared your content the ways that people shared your content the ways that people shared your content and again texting on all of our podcasts and again texting on all of our podcasts and again texting on all of our podcasts came up as a number one well over 50 came up as a number one well over 50 came up as a number one well over 50 percent of of shares came from texting percent of of shares came from texting percent of of shares came from texting love it I love it we've we've talked love it I love it we've we've talked love it I love it we've we've talked with our audience in the past about with our audience in the past about with our audience in the past about podcasting uh we had Jeff Cady who hosts podcasting uh we had Jeff Cady who hosts podcasting uh we had Jeff Cady who hosts a podcast called 200 churches on our a podcast called 200 churches on our a podcast called 200 churches on our podcast to talk about how pastors can podcast to talk about how pastors can podcast to talk about how pastors can use the platform of podcasting to engage use the platform of podcasting to engage use the platform of podcasting to engage with their Church to engage with their with their Church to engage with their with their Church to engage with their Community I know that for a lot of Community I know that for a lot of Community I know that for a lot of pastors just the idea of getting started pastors just the idea of getting started pastors just the idea of getting started is pretty intimidating and I I is pretty intimidating and I I is pretty intimidating and I I appreciate what you said there about the appreciate what you said there about the appreciate what you said there about the consistency you know Jason and I will consistency you know Jason and I will consistency you know Jason and I will tell you we we just last week at the tell you we we just last week at the tell you we we just last week at the time that we were recording this we just time that we were recording this we just time that we were recording this we just dropped our 100th episode and to think dropped our 100th episode and to think dropped our 100th episode and to think that we've stuck through this for 100 that we've stuck through this for 100 that we've stuck through this for 100 episodes is is we we celebrate it it was episodes is is we we celebrate it it was episodes is is we we celebrate it it was pretty Monumental the reality is not pretty Monumental the reality is not pretty Monumental the reality is not every episode was great you know some of every episode was great you know some of every episode was great you know some of them we walked away from them went wow them we walked away from them went wow them we walked away from them went wow that person was amazing can't wait to that person was amazing can't wait to that person was amazing can't wait to get them back on the show and others get them back on the show and others get them back on the show and others were sort of like well we've got an were sort of like well we've got an were sort of like well we've got an episode that you know is in the can like episode that you know is in the can like episode that you know is in the can like I'm sure you've experienced some of the I'm sure you've experienced some of the I'm sure you've experienced some of the same thing yeah yeah like a sermon yeah

same thing yeah yeah like a sermon yeah same thing yeah yeah like a sermon yeah yeah exactly exactly you're not you're yeah exactly exactly you're not you're yeah exactly exactly you're not you're not killing it 52 weeks a year not killing it 52 weeks a year not killing it 52 weeks a year um what what council advice um what what council advice um what what council advice encouragement would you have for a encouragement would you have for a encouragement would you have for a pastor or a church leadership team uh to pastor or a church leadership team uh to pastor or a church leadership team uh to help them even just get started from help them even just get started from help them even just get started from obviously you've given us an idea about obviously you've given us an idea about obviously you've given us an idea about content some biblical literacy stuff content some biblical literacy stuff content some biblical literacy stuff from a technical practical standpoint from a technical practical standpoint from a technical practical standpoint what does that look like to get started what does that look like to get started what does that look like to get started on a podcast and I want to throw one on a podcast and I want to throw one on a podcast and I want to throw one more in there do you plan for the future more in there do you plan for the future more in there do you plan for the future um yeah so let me start with with the um yeah so let me start with with the um yeah so let me start with with the first question and and I'll say this first question and and I'll say this first question and and I'll say this again depending on your church size and again depending on your church size and again depending on your church size and your schedule I know a lot of pastors your schedule I know a lot of pastors your schedule I know a lot of pastors already feel like they have a job that already feel like they have a job that already feel like they have a job that takes up 120 of their time and so when I takes up 120 of their time and so when I takes up 120 of their time and so when I come in saying oh just go do a podcast come in saying oh just go do a podcast come in saying oh just go do a podcast you got plenty of time they're like oh you got plenty of time they're like oh you got plenty of time they're like oh sure yeah right okay and so for some of sure yeah right okay and so for some of sure yeah right okay and so for some of you what I am suggesting is maybe you you what I am suggesting is maybe you you what I am suggesting is maybe you need to say no to some things pastors need to say no to some things pastors need to say no to some things pastors have really weak no muscles we need to have really weak no muscles we need to have really weak no muscles we need to strengthen them because when you say yes strengthen them because when you say yes strengthen them because when you say yes to everything you end up saying no to to everything you end up saying no to to everything you end up saying no to the important things on the other side I the important things on the other side I the important things on the other side I will say this it doesn't have to be you will say this it doesn't have to be you will say this it doesn't have to be you I believe in the priesthood of all I believe in the priesthood of all I believe in the priesthood of all believers God has given you a body he's believers God has given you a body he's believers God has given you a body he's put the people in your congregation put the people in your congregation put the people in your congregation already who he might want to be the ones already who he might want to be the ones already who he might want to be the ones who are running this podcast our who are running this podcast our who are running this podcast our podcasts are not all run by pastors podcasts are not all run by pastors podcasts are not all run by pastors they're not all run by staff members they're not all run by staff members they're not all run by staff members we've helped equip uh people inside of we've helped equip uh people inside of we've helped equip uh people inside of our church to to to do and to leave our church to to to do and to leave our church to to to do and to leave these podcasts and so it might not be these podcasts and so it might not be these podcasts and so it might not be you so so the first thing I'm going to you so so the first thing I'm going to you so so the first thing I'm going to say is if you can't do it who's the you say is if you can't do it who's the you say is if you can't do it who's the you know maybe it's someone on your staff or know maybe it's someone on your staff or know maybe it's someone on your staff or maybe it's a member of your church who's

maybe it's a member of your church who's maybe it's a member of your church who's someone who you could Equip to do this someone who you could Equip to do this someone who you could Equip to do this thing on a technical level I'll just say thing on a technical level I'll just say thing on a technical level I'll just say this podcasting is super easy it is this podcasting is super easy it is this podcasting is super easy it is actually it sounds really hard and I've actually it sounds really hard and I've actually it sounds really hard and I've got some Twitter threads and I maybe can got some Twitter threads and I maybe can got some Twitter threads and I maybe can send them to you can share them send them to you can share them send them to you can share them literally all you have to do is buy a literally all you have to do is buy a literally all you have to do is buy a microphone and buy a little device that microphone and buy a little device that microphone and buy a little device that records things on that microphone and records things on that microphone and records things on that microphone and then you just upload it into a podcast then you just upload it into a podcast then you just upload it into a podcast server it's it's incredibly simple to server it's it's incredibly simple to server it's it's incredibly simple to get out the gate with this stuff if get out the gate with this stuff if get out the gate with this stuff if you're if you're able to to use dropbox you're if you're able to to use dropbox you're if you're able to to use dropbox you're able to do a podcast I mean this you're able to do a podcast I mean this you're able to do a podcast I mean this stuff is not really technical so don't stuff is not really technical so don't stuff is not really technical so don't get overwhelmed by that what I always get overwhelmed by that what I always get overwhelmed by that what I always tell people is if you can just set aside tell people is if you can just set aside tell people is if you can just set aside fifteen hundred dollars you can spend fifteen hundred dollars you can spend fifteen hundred dollars you can spend about 800 to a thousand of that buying about 800 to a thousand of that buying about 800 to a thousand of that buying nice equipment that makes all this very nice equipment that makes all this very nice equipment that makes all this very very easy you can spend 100 of that on very easy you can spend 100 of that on very easy you can spend 100 of that on your podcast server just making sure your podcast server just making sure your podcast server just making sure that it's going to all the right places that it's going to all the right places that it's going to all the right places and then you can dedicate 400 of it to and then you can dedicate 400 of it to and then you can dedicate 400 of it to do stuff like advertising if you have do stuff like advertising if you have do stuff like advertising if you have the bandwidth to do that that little bit the bandwidth to do that that little bit the bandwidth to do that that little bit this is not expensive project this is this is not expensive project this is this is not expensive project this is this is this is not even a super time this is this is not even a super time this is this is not even a super time consuming project if you're able to consuming project if you're able to consuming project if you're able to structure it correctly structure it correctly structure it correctly and then do you guys like and then do you guys like and then do you guys like when you think about what you're going when you think about what you're going when you think about what you're going to talk about to talk about to talk about do you guys plan out in advance or is it do you guys plan out in advance or is it do you guys plan out in advance or is it more like every week we just kind of more like every week we just kind of more like every week we just kind of figure out what we're gonna do figure out what we're gonna do figure out what we're gonna do yeah you know I I think both options are yeah you know I I think both options are yeah you know I I think both options are live options depending on how you live options depending on how you live options depending on how you organize your life and your schedule organize your life and your schedule organize your life and your schedule um we we are a very systematic team and um we we are a very systematic team and um we we are a very systematic team and so we we plan out pretty far into the so we we plan out pretty far into the so we we plan out pretty far into the future so with our digital content in

future so with our digital content in future so with our digital content in general at the church we run we call general at the church we run we call general at the church we run we call them Sprints but little six-week long them Sprints but little six-week long them Sprints but little six-week long campaigns and and we plan out all the campaigns and and we plan out all the campaigns and and we plan out all the content that's going to come out in that content that's going to come out in that content that's going to come out in that campaign and inside of that campaign campaign and inside of that campaign campaign and inside of that campaign it's usually thematic we we have a topic it's usually thematic we we have a topic it's usually thematic we we have a topic that we're exploring there's also always that we're exploring there's also always that we're exploring there's also always a really clear goal that we're setting a really clear goal that we're setting a really clear goal that we're setting so it might be we want to add an so it might be we want to add an so it might be we want to add an additional 1000 newsletter subscribers additional 1000 newsletter subscribers additional 1000 newsletter subscribers or we want to promote this podcast that or we want to promote this podcast that or we want to promote this podcast that we have there's always a goal that we're we have there's always a goal that we're we have there's always a goal that we're trying to do and there's always a target trying to do and there's always a target trying to do and there's always a target audience for each campaign who's the audience for each campaign who's the audience for each campaign who's the kind of person that we're trying to kind of person that we're trying to kind of person that we're trying to reach with this content and so we reach with this content and so we reach with this content and so we planned those out pretty well in advance planned those out pretty well in advance planned those out pretty well in advance but that's not the only way to do it I but that's not the only way to do it I but that's not the only way to do it I mean with our podcast we have some like mean with our podcast we have some like mean with our podcast we have some like 10 minute Bible talks it's planned all 10 minute Bible talks it's planned all 10 minute Bible talks it's planned all the way through the next year we know the way through the next year we know the way through the next year we know what we're doing in 2023. what we're doing in 2023. what we're doing in 2023. um but with stuff like truth over tribe um but with stuff like truth over tribe um but with stuff like truth over tribe we're more like like you know six weeks we're more like like you know six weeks we're more like like you know six weeks ahead of time so you know again it just ahead of time so you know again it just ahead of time so you know again it just depends on the kind of content that depends on the kind of content that depends on the kind of content that you're doing what you want to create and you're doing what you want to create and you're doing what you want to create and and how much planning you want to do and how much planning you want to do and how much planning you want to do yeah and here's a nugget for your church yeah and here's a nugget for your church yeah and here's a nugget for your church I mean my guess is I hope I I sure hope I mean my guess is I hope I I sure hope I mean my guess is I hope I I sure hope this happens for you that your lead this happens for you that your lead this happens for you that your lead Pastor plans out his sermon series at Pastor plans out his sermon series at Pastor plans out his sermon series at least at least a few months if not six least at least a few months if not six least at least a few months if not six months hopefully the whole year but you months hopefully the whole year but you months hopefully the whole year but you know how that is you know your podcast know how that is you know your podcast know how that is you know your podcast episodes could just tailor those so you episodes could just tailor those so you episodes could just tailor those so you don't have to really make it too don't have to really make it too don't have to really make it too difficult you just kind of follow in the difficult you just kind of follow in the difficult you just kind of follow in the footsteps of what leadership's doing in footsteps of what leadership's doing in footsteps of what leadership's doing in terms of what they're going to be terms of what they're going to be terms of what they're going to be preaching on one idea I've seen from preaching on one idea I've seen from preaching on one idea I've seen from churches is uh is a midweek podcast that churches is uh is a midweek podcast that churches is uh is a midweek podcast that goes deeper into whatever was discussed goes deeper into whatever was discussed goes deeper into whatever was discussed in the sermon so on one level it's in the sermon so on one level it's in the sermon so on one level it's assuming that you've heard the sermon uh

assuming that you've heard the sermon uh assuming that you've heard the sermon uh but you know every Pastor I know writes but you know every Pastor I know writes but you know every Pastor I know writes uh you know 4 000 words for their for uh you know 4 000 words for their for uh you know 4 000 words for their for their sermon and then only ends up their sermon and then only ends up their sermon and then only ends up saying 2500 words well don't throw away saying 2500 words well don't throw away saying 2500 words well don't throw away that bit that you cut out that you that bit that you cut out that you that bit that you cut out that you really loved keep it and you can do a really loved keep it and you can do a really loved keep it and you can do a Midway week podcast based on that it Midway week podcast based on that it Midway week podcast based on that it could just be you talking solo hey could just be you talking solo hey could just be you talking solo hey here's the three things I wish I could here's the three things I wish I could here's the three things I wish I could have said on Sunday or it could be you have said on Sunday or it could be you have said on Sunday or it could be you with a staff member talking about with a staff member talking about with a staff member talking about um hey how do we apply this particularly um hey how do we apply this particularly um hey how do we apply this particularly thorny you know obstacle that I I laid thorny you know obstacle that I I laid thorny you know obstacle that I I laid out in in this week's sermon there's a out in in this week's sermon there's a out in in this week's sermon there's a lot of different things you can do but a lot of different things you can do but a lot of different things you can do but a midweek podcast that's a kind of a part midweek podcast that's a kind of a part midweek podcast that's a kind of a part of your your Sunday Morning Experience of your your Sunday Morning Experience of your your Sunday Morning Experience in the sense that it's going deeper in in the sense that it's going deeper in in the sense that it's going deeper in the sermon is a great way to again start the sermon is a great way to again start the sermon is a great way to again start up something up something up something Jason's home Church your home Church Jason's home Church your home Church Jason's home Church your home Church actually does that Jason actually does that Jason actually does that Jason um they he's at uh Sun Valley in the um they he's at uh Sun Valley in the um they he's at uh Sun Valley in the Phoenix area and their pastors actually Phoenix area and their pastors actually Phoenix area and their pastors actually have a midweek podcast that goes deeper have a midweek podcast that goes deeper have a midweek podcast that goes deeper into the content that was preached on into the content that was preached on into the content that was preached on Sunday I don't watch the sermons on Sunday I don't watch the sermons on Sunday I don't watch the sermons on Sunday and I don't attend the church Sunday and I don't attend the church Sunday and I don't attend the church because I live in the Dallas area but I because I live in the Dallas area but I because I live in the Dallas area but I actually subscribe and listen to the actually subscribe and listen to the actually subscribe and listen to the podcast because the content alone just podcast because the content alone just podcast because the content alone just in the conversations that they have in the conversations that they have in the conversations that they have about the sermon that they preached on about the sermon that they preached on about the sermon that they preached on Sunday I always find to be you know Sunday I always find to be you know Sunday I always find to be you know super beneficial super helpful I'm sure super beneficial super helpful I'm sure super beneficial super helpful I'm sure that there are some bullet points and that there are some bullet points and that there are some bullet points and some things that they're that they're some things that they're that they're some things that they're that they're working through when they do those working through when they do those working through when they do those conversations about the sermon but the conversations about the sermon but the conversations about the sermon but the reality is it's just a conversation reality is it's just a conversation reality is it's just a conversation about the sermon that was already about the sermon that was already about the sermon that was already preached and just going you know picking preached and just going you know picking preached and just going you know picking up some stuff that maybe hit The Cutting up some stuff that maybe hit The Cutting up some stuff that maybe hit The Cutting Room floor Room floor Room floor um and you know kind of taking it to to um and you know kind of taking it to to um and you know kind of taking it to to another level so I I appreciate that let another level so I I appreciate that let another level so I I appreciate that let me let me ask you a question Jason I

me let me ask you a question Jason I me let me ask you a question Jason I know you had another question because we know you had another question because we know you had another question because we have a million for Patrick sorry Patrick have a million for Patrick sorry Patrick have a million for Patrick sorry Patrick I'm sorry for those of you who are I'm sorry for those of you who are I'm sorry for those of you who are listening here listening here listening here um uh Patrick you mentioned just a um uh Patrick you mentioned just a um uh Patrick you mentioned just a minute ago that when you're thinking minute ago that when you're thinking minute ago that when you're thinking through the content that you're creating through the content that you're creating through the content that you're creating and you're planning that out you're and you're planning that out you're and you're planning that out you're thinking about the audience that you're thinking about the audience that you're thinking about the audience that you're trying to reach do you do the majority trying to reach do you do the majority trying to reach do you do the majority of your content for your what we would of your content for your what we would of your content for your what we would call ring one people the people who are call ring one people the people who are call ring one people the people who are already part of the crossing or are you already part of the crossing or are you already part of the crossing or are you thinking about the ring to people in thinking about the ring to people in thinking about the ring to people in your community who might be actually your community who might be actually your community who might be actually actively looking for a church or ring actively looking for a church or ring actively looking for a church or ring three people people who are just out three people people who are just out three people people who are just out there in the community that aren't even there in the community that aren't even there in the community that aren't even looking for a church like what what is looking for a church like what what is looking for a church like what what is your primary audience when you're your primary audience when you're your primary audience when you're creating your content creating your content creating your content and that's a fantastic question and and and that's a fantastic question and and and that's a fantastic question and and the answer is is all of the above the answer is is all of the above the answer is is all of the above depending depending on the specific depending depending on the specific depending depending on the specific campaign you're in we might pick one of campaign you're in we might pick one of campaign you're in we might pick one of those groups so we have some campaigns those groups so we have some campaigns those groups so we have some campaigns that are really focused on what we call that are really focused on what we call that are really focused on what we call them bottom of the funnel I think you them bottom of the funnel I think you them bottom of the funnel I think you call them ring one ring one people that call them ring one ring one people that call them ring one ring one people that that's who we're focused on on reaching that's who we're focused on on reaching that's who we're focused on on reaching and creating content for we have some and creating content for we have some and creating content for we have some campaigns probably the majority that are campaigns probably the majority that are campaigns probably the majority that are focused on ring two so these are people focused on ring two so these are people focused on ring two so these are people who we would maybe describe but not just who we would maybe describe but not just who we would maybe describe but not just as Community but also people who are as Community but also people who are as Community but also people who are they're checking out Church they're not they're checking out Church they're not they're checking out Church they're not super engaged with what's happening super engaged with what's happening super engaged with what's happening inside the church and so so we do most inside the church and so so we do most inside the church and so so we do most of our campaigns focus in that sphere of our campaigns focus in that sphere of our campaigns focus in that sphere and then we do some that reach outside and then we do some that reach outside and then we do some that reach outside of that um as a church I mean we again of that um as a church I mean we again of that um as a church I mean we again we have National podcast and what we do we have National podcast and what we do we have National podcast and what we do with some of those it looks a little bit with some of those it looks a little bit with some of those it looks a little bit different but as far as our church different but as far as our church different but as far as our church content goes for the most part we're

content goes for the most part we're content goes for the most part we're focused on ring one and ring two focused on ring one and ring two focused on ring one and ring two primarily ring two primarily ring two primarily ring two um um um but again we don't do both at the same but again we don't do both at the same but again we don't do both at the same time that's really important to note we time that's really important to note we time that's really important to note we don't say hey in this campaign we're don't say hey in this campaign we're don't say hey in this campaign we're going to try to do uh we're gonna try to going to try to do uh we're gonna try to going to try to do uh we're gonna try to reach both the people at the bottom of reach both the people at the bottom of reach both the people at the bottom of our funnel and the people who've never our funnel and the people who've never our funnel and the people who've never heard of our church before that's a heard of our church before that's a heard of our church before that's a great way to miss everyone great way to miss everyone great way to miss everyone yeah it is I was going to go back yeah it is I was going to go back yeah it is I was going to go back because I think that's a really because I think that's a really because I think that's a really important and we probably need to land important and we probably need to land important and we probably need to land This Plane uh but I want to go back and This Plane uh but I want to go back and This Plane uh but I want to go back and talk about this keyword talk about this keyword talk about this keyword that is if you don't if you don't that is if you don't if you don't that is if you don't if you don't Embrace this word it ain't gonna happen Embrace this word it ain't gonna happen Embrace this word it ain't gonna happen for you and that's consistency for you and that's consistency for you and that's consistency you have to be consistent and through you have to be consistent and through you have to be consistent and through that I will also say you're going to that I will also say you're going to that I will also say you're going to have failure and that's a good thing so have failure and that's a good thing so have failure and that's a good thing so don't get beat up when your podcast is don't get beat up when your podcast is don't get beat up when your podcast is horrible or doesn't go out on time just horrible or doesn't go out on time just horrible or doesn't go out on time just keep going and learn from it because I keep going and learn from it because I keep going and learn from it because I think you know through failure you're think you know through failure you're think you know through failure you're going to that's going to help you get going to that's going to help you get going to that's going to help you get better you're not going to hit a home better you're not going to hit a home better you're not going to hit a home run every single time run every single time run every single time and I think that's what you guys Patrick and I think that's what you guys Patrick and I think that's what you guys Patrick that's what you're telling us that that's what you're telling us that that's what you're telling us that you've learned that along the way is you've learned that along the way is you've learned that along the way is consistency and kind of just figuring it consistency and kind of just figuring it consistency and kind of just figuring it out as you go along you've been doing out as you go along you've been doing out as you go along you've been doing this for years now and you just didn't this for years now and you just didn't this for years now and you just didn't wake up one day and get to this point it wake up one day and get to this point it wake up one day and get to this point it took a long time but it was well worth took a long time but it was well worth took a long time but it was well worth it yeah you know first of all we've had it yeah you know first of all we've had it yeah you know first of all we've had tons of failures and one of the beauties tons of failures and one of the beauties tons of failures and one of the beauties of the internet is that well yes it kind of the internet is that well yes it kind of the internet is that well yes it kind of lasts forever it doesn't stay on of lasts forever it doesn't stay on of lasts forever it doesn't stay on people's radar forever and so I kind of people's radar forever and so I kind of people's radar forever and so I kind of joke that sometimes we're just creating joke that sometimes we're just creating joke that sometimes we're just creating the the shiniest piece of trash on top the the shiniest piece of trash on top the the shiniest piece of trash on top of the trash keep

of the trash keep of the trash keep it's not very good eventually something it's not very good eventually something it's not very good eventually something is going to cover it up and everybody is going to cover it up and everybody is going to cover it up and everybody will forget about it but I agree will forget about it but I agree will forget about it but I agree consistency is Bye Bye Bye Bye by far consistency is Bye Bye Bye Bye by far consistency is Bye Bye Bye Bye by far the most important thing I would far the most important thing I would far the most important thing I would far rather have a mediocre Talent who could rather have a mediocre Talent who could rather have a mediocre Talent who could produce consistent content over a produce consistent content over a produce consistent content over a world-class Talent who cannot be world-class Talent who cannot be world-class Talent who cannot be consistent at all I will always take consistent at all I will always take consistent at all I will always take consistency and I tend I think about consistency and I tend I think about consistency and I tend I think about these as like dials like quality on one these as like dials like quality on one these as like dials like quality on one end and and and time or time input on end and and and time or time input on end and and and time or time input on the other end you've got some people who the other end you've got some people who the other end you've got some people who they want to be perfectionist everything they want to be perfectionist everything they want to be perfectionist everything has to be really really high quality and has to be really really high quality and has to be really really high quality and if if that's you you're gonna have a if if that's you you're gonna have a if if that's you you're gonna have a really hard time with digital content really hard time with digital content really hard time with digital content because we really have to dial down we because we really have to dial down we because we really have to dial down we we need quantity and consistency now we need quantity and consistency now we need quantity and consistency now again one of our cultural values at our again one of our cultural values at our again one of our cultural values at our church is excellent so I don't think our church is excellent so I don't think our church is excellent so I don't think our podcasts are crap I you know we we podcasts are crap I you know we we podcasts are crap I you know we we aren't just putting trash out there I'm aren't just putting trash out there I'm aren't just putting trash out there I'm kind of joking when I use those phrases kind of joking when I use those phrases kind of joking when I use those phrases and yet I understand that consistency is and yet I understand that consistency is and yet I understand that consistency is the key to growing an audience it's the the key to growing an audience it's the the key to growing an audience it's the key to engaging people over the long key to engaging people over the long key to engaging people over the long term and yeah I mean I go back and term and yeah I mean I go back and term and yeah I mean I go back and listen to our early episodes of many of listen to our early episodes of many of listen to our early episodes of many of our podcasts I mean they're disaster our podcasts I mean they're disaster our podcasts I mean they're disaster zones shaking your head zones shaking your head zones shaking your head um you know and I'm sure I'll go back to um you know and I'm sure I'll go back to um you know and I'm sure I'll go back to the ones we're doing right now you know the ones we're doing right now you know the ones we're doing right now you know a year from now and be like oh my gosh a year from now and be like oh my gosh a year from now and be like oh my gosh that was terrible I can't believe we did that was terrible I can't believe we did that was terrible I can't believe we did that but that's that's part of growth that but that's that's part of growth that but that's that's part of growth and maturity it's exact same thing as and maturity it's exact same thing as and maturity it's exact same thing as preaching you listen to your early preaching you listen to your early preaching you listen to your early sermons I mean good gosh they're awful sermons I mean good gosh they're awful sermons I mean good gosh they're awful you know and you're just glad that you you know and you're just glad that you you know and you're just glad that you got to grow over time and you know what got to grow over time and you know what got to grow over time and you know what forced you to do that by the way Sunday forced you to do that by the way Sunday forced you to do that by the way Sunday is always a coming and so if you can get is always a coming and so if you can get is always a coming and so if you can get if you can get that podcast based on if you can get that podcast based on if you can get that podcast based on Wednesdays Wednesdays always coming too

Wednesdays Wednesdays always coming too Wednesdays Wednesdays always coming too make it a part of your life and you'll make it a part of your life and you'll make it a part of your life and you'll see that transformation happen so I go see that transformation happen so I go see that transformation happen so I go back and listen to some of the first back and listen to some of the first back and listen to some of the first sermons that I preached when I started sermons that I preached when I started sermons that I preached when I started preaching on a regular basis and I can't preaching on a regular basis and I can't preaching on a regular basis and I can't believe that people stayed in the room believe that people stayed in the room believe that people stayed in the room like it it's and then they came back the like it it's and then they came back the like it it's and then they came back the next Sunday so you know I one of my next Sunday so you know I one of my next Sunday so you know I one of my favorite John maxwellisms of all time is favorite John maxwellisms of all time is favorite John maxwellisms of all time is that content compounds and so when if that content compounds and so when if that content compounds and so when if you're creating podcast content you're you're creating podcast content you're you're creating podcast content you're creating good digital content through creating good digital content through creating good digital content through blogs however you're creating whether blogs however you're creating whether blogs however you're creating whether it's YouTube content whatever it is that it's YouTube content whatever it is that it's YouTube content whatever it is that you're creating that consistency gives you're creating that consistency gives you're creating that consistency gives you credibility because people see that you credibility because people see that you credibility because people see that you're serious about what you're doing you're serious about what you're doing you're serious about what you're doing and and the other the other and and the other the other and and the other the other um I guess this isn't more of a Kerry um I guess this isn't more of a Kerry um I guess this isn't more of a Kerry Newhall thing I think it was Carrie Newhall thing I think it was Carrie Newhall thing I think it was Carrie newhop that I heard say this uh years newhop that I heard say this uh years newhop that I heard say this uh years ago and it's something that's stuck with ago and it's something that's stuck with ago and it's something that's stuck with me and that is before you hit the button me and that is before you hit the button me and that is before you hit the button send or before you hit the button send or before you hit the button send or before you hit the button publish or whatever it is that your publish or whatever it is that your publish or whatever it is that your whatever button you're about to push whatever button you're about to push whatever button you're about to push always ask yourself the question is what always ask yourself the question is what always ask yourself the question is what am I is is what I'm doing going to add am I is is what I'm doing going to add am I is is what I'm doing going to add value to the person who's going to value to the person who's going to value to the person who's going to receive it you know we're not creating receive it you know we're not creating receive it you know we're not creating content for the sake of creating content content for the sake of creating content content for the sake of creating content we're not sending an email for the sake we're not sending an email for the sake we're not sending an email for the sake of sending an email where and I think of sending an email where and I think of sending an email where and I think boy rewinding all the way back to the boy rewinding all the way back to the boy rewinding all the way back to the very beginning of our conversation very beginning of our conversation very beginning of our conversation Patrick and you talked about the way Patrick and you talked about the way Patrick and you talked about the way that you guys repurposed your uh that you guys repurposed your uh that you guys repurposed your uh electronic newsletter your Weekly electronic newsletter your Weekly electronic newsletter your Weekly Newsletter uh I think that that is a Newsletter uh I think that that is a Newsletter uh I think that that is a missed opportunity for so many churches missed opportunity for so many churches missed opportunity for so many churches because they don't ask themselves the because they don't ask themselves the because they don't ask themselves the question is what I'm sending adding question is what I'm sending adding question is what I'm sending adding value or am I merely giving people a value or am I merely giving people a value or am I merely giving people a calendar of events and I think that

calendar of events and I think that calendar of events and I think that that's a really good question that a lot that's a really good question that a lot that's a really good question that a lot of churches need to be asking themselves of churches need to be asking themselves of churches need to be asking themselves yeah yeah yeah okay there was a pause and everybody okay there was a pause and everybody okay there was a pause and everybody kind of went yeah so Jason let us let us kind of went yeah so Jason let us let us kind of went yeah so Jason let us let us Land This Plane uh you you had a great Land This Plane uh you you had a great Land This Plane uh you you had a great what I would call a Parting Shot just a what I would call a Parting Shot just a what I would call a Parting Shot just a moment there Jason but if you have moment there Jason but if you have moment there Jason but if you have anything else that you want to add I do anything else that you want to add I do anything else that you want to add I do yeah I think um uh one other thing that yeah I think um uh one other thing that yeah I think um uh one other thing that we we've kind of skimmed over and that we we've kind of skimmed over and that we we've kind of skimmed over and that that is when when you start your podcast that is when when you start your podcast that is when when you start your podcast Church Church Church be consistent be consistent be consistent and use your own people and use your own people and use your own people you got to communicate and promote your you got to communicate and promote your you got to communicate and promote your podcast to your own people to kind of podcast to your own people to kind of podcast to your own people to kind of get that that Bolder moving down the get that that Bolder moving down the get that that Bolder moving down the down the hill a little bit and so for down the hill a little bit and so for down the hill a little bit and so for the first several months this was the first several months this was the first several months this was Patrick's advice consistently remind Patrick's advice consistently remind Patrick's advice consistently remind your people that the podcast is there your people that the podcast is there your people that the podcast is there encourage them to listen And subscribe encourage them to listen And subscribe encourage them to listen And subscribe and share so utilize your own people and share so utilize your own people and share so utilize your own people you've got a marketing I call them the you've got a marketing I call them the you've got a marketing I call them the marketing minion sitting in your seats marketing minion sitting in your seats marketing minion sitting in your seats use them for for your podcast growth use them for for your podcast growth use them for for your podcast growth yeah we we're really intentional because yeah we we're really intentional because yeah we we're really intentional because again I think we're running six podcasts again I think we're running six podcasts again I think we're running six podcasts now every time we've launched a podcast now every time we've launched a podcast now every time we've launched a podcast we've been very intentional about making we've been very intentional about making we've been very intentional about making sure that people in in the pews we don't sure that people in in the pews we don't sure that people in in the pews we don't have actual pews but in the peers uh have actual pews but in the peers uh have actual pews but in the peers uh we'll hear about it and and we'll know we'll hear about it and and we'll know we'll hear about it and and we'll know what it is um but also using our our what it is um but also using our our what it is um but also using our our digital marketing to to reach people digital marketing to to reach people digital marketing to to reach people online and share about it there and and online and share about it there and and online and share about it there and and I think this is also just a church I think this is also just a church I think this is also just a church culture thing if your church doesn't a culture thing if your church doesn't a culture thing if your church doesn't a lot of Christians they're they're happy lot of Christians they're they're happy lot of Christians they're they're happy to share their their the the latest

to share their their the the latest to share their their the the latest thing from Tucker Carlson they're happy thing from Tucker Carlson they're happy thing from Tucker Carlson they're happy to share the latest thing from Tim to share the latest thing from Tim to share the latest thing from Tim Keller they're happy to share whoever Keller they're happy to share whoever Keller they're happy to share whoever they're into whatever it is they're they're into whatever it is they're they're into whatever it is they're watching they'll share it but they feel watching they'll share it but they feel watching they'll share it but they feel no sense of calling to share what's no sense of calling to share what's no sense of calling to share what's happening in their churches because they happening in their churches because they happening in their churches because they don't see it as a Ministry they're just don't see it as a Ministry they're just don't see it as a Ministry they're just out there self-expressing here's the out there self-expressing here's the out there self-expressing here's the stuff that I like and so I would also stuff that I like and so I would also stuff that I like and so I would also say if you're going to start a podcast say if you're going to start a podcast say if you're going to start a podcast maybe not right when you started because maybe not right when you started because maybe not right when you started because it'll look really self-serving but at it'll look really self-serving but at it'll look really self-serving but at some point even in your sermons there's some point even in your sermons there's some point even in your sermons there's a place to tell people hey you have a a place to tell people hey you have a a place to tell people hey you have a Ministry to others on mine and one of Ministry to others on mine and one of Ministry to others on mine and one of the ways that you can serve people in the ways that you can serve people in the ways that you can serve people in our community is by sharing the content our community is by sharing the content our community is by sharing the content that we have here and this isn't me that we have here and this isn't me that we have here and this isn't me being self-serving and saying that it's being self-serving and saying that it's being self-serving and saying that it's because when people see it on your because when people see it on your because when people see it on your social media feed or when you text it to social media feed or when you text it to social media feed or when you text it to them that's going to become a doorway them that's going to become a doorway them that's going to become a doorway for you to have a spiritual conversation for you to have a spiritual conversation for you to have a spiritual conversation it's going to become a doorway for you it's going to become a doorway for you it's going to become a doorway for you to invite people from your office to to invite people from your office to to invite people from your office to come and be a part of church and it's a come and be a part of church and it's a come and be a part of church and it's a doorway because it's a it's a really low doorway because it's a it's a really low doorway because it's a it's a really low step right you're not starting with come step right you're not starting with come step right you're not starting with come to church you're starting with listen to to church you're starting with listen to to church you're starting with listen to this podcast read this blog post let's this podcast read this blog post let's this podcast read this blog post let's grab lunch and talk about this you're grab lunch and talk about this you're grab lunch and talk about this you're starting in relationship with digital starting in relationship with digital starting in relationship with digital content and then moving towards the content and then moving towards the content and then moving towards the bigger step of hey let's worship bigger step of hey let's worship bigger step of hey let's worship together together together yeah absolute gold Patrick thank you so yeah absolute gold Patrick thank you so yeah absolute gold Patrick thank you so much for hanging out with us it has been much for hanging out with us it has been much for hanging out with us it has been a real privilege uh to get to know you a real privilege uh to get to know you a real privilege uh to get to know you and uh for those that are listening or and uh for those that are listening or and uh for those that are listening or watching uh who might want to experience watching uh who might want to experience watching uh who might want to experience what the family or the folks at the what the family or the folks at the what the family or the folks at the Crossing are experiencing with some of Crossing are experiencing with some of Crossing are experiencing with some of this digital content or they want to this digital content or they want to this digital content or they want to learn more about what you're doing is learn more about what you're doing is learn more about what you're doing is there a central Hub or is there a there a central Hub or is there a there a central Hub or is there a logical place for them to go and check logical place for them to go and check logical place for them to go and check that out yeah you know we we we we've

that out yeah you know we we we we've that out yeah you know we we we we've created content in such a way that a lot created content in such a way that a lot created content in such a way that a lot of this operates behind the scenes so of this operates behind the scenes so of this operates behind the scenes so you're not going to necessarily realize you're not going to necessarily realize you're not going to necessarily realize it or see it but you can go to our it or see it but you can go to our it or see it but you can go to our website website website www.thecrossingchurch.com and you can www.thecrossingchurch.com and you can www.thecrossingchurch.com and you can see some of the stuff we're doing there see some of the stuff we're doing there see some of the stuff we're doing there um if if you want to engage with me um if if you want to engage with me um if if you want to engage with me Twitter's my preferred social media I I Twitter's my preferred social media I I Twitter's my preferred social media I I do try to limit my social media despite do try to limit my social media despite do try to limit my social media despite being a digital Ministry person so I'd being a digital Ministry person so I'd being a digital Ministry person so I'd love to talk with you there my handle is love to talk with you there my handle is love to talk with you there my handle is Patrick K Miller underscore Patrick K Miller underscore Patrick K Miller underscore um and another person I would recommend um and another person I would recommend um and another person I would recommend you follow is the guy who's kind of the you follow is the guy who's kind of the you follow is the guy who's kind of the director and operator of all of our director and operator of all of our director and operator of all of our systems 90 of what I just said is is him systems 90 of what I just said is is him systems 90 of what I just said is is him making a lot of this stuff really work making a lot of this stuff really work making a lot of this stuff really work and his name's Anthony Alvin and he's and his name's Anthony Alvin and he's and his name's Anthony Alvin and he's just at Anthony Alvin just at Anthony Alvin just at Anthony Alvin a-l-p-h-i-n and he talks a lot about a-l-p-h-i-n and he talks a lot about a-l-p-h-i-n and he talks a lot about these topics on Twitter as well so again these topics on Twitter as well so again these topics on Twitter as well so again I just recommend following us send us a I just recommend following us send us a I just recommend following us send us a DM we're very responsive we'd love to DM we're very responsive we'd love to DM we're very responsive we'd love to connect with you we we don't have a connect with you we we don't have a connect with you we we don't have a special sauce we'll give everybody the special sauce we'll give everybody the special sauce we'll give everybody the recipe we just want to see churches recipe we just want to see churches recipe we just want to see churches Reach people in their communities Reach people in their communities Reach people in their communities digitally that's all we care about [Music] [Music] thank you