How to Keep Creative Meetings Creative | Dr. Gavin Adams

[Music] [Music] if your idea doesn't make it or does it if your idea doesn't make it or does it if your idea doesn't make it or does it become the idea you can't pout about it become the idea you can't pout about it become the idea you can't pout about it and you can't kind of take your ball and and you can't kind of take your ball and and you can't kind of take your ball and go home like we have another meeting go home like we have another meeting go home like we have another meeting next week we need you to bring your best next week we need you to bring your best next week we need you to bring your best to that meeting too and so I think to that meeting too and so I think to that meeting too and so I think especially for this for the point leader especially for this for the point leader especially for this for the point leader helping everybody recognize the value helping everybody recognize the value helping everybody recognize the value they bring even if their idea isn't they bring even if their idea isn't they bring even if their idea isn't taken so when you see someone pouting or taken so when you see someone pouting or taken so when you see someone pouting or being dismissive or disengaging the being dismissive or disengaging the being dismissive or disengaging the problem is they just didn't wear their problem is they just didn't wear their problem is they just didn't wear their big boy pants that day and it's okay to big boy pants that day and it's okay to big boy pants that day and it's okay to acknowledge that pull them aside but I acknowledge that pull them aside but I acknowledge that pull them aside but I would remind everybody the beginning of would remind everybody the beginning of would remind everybody the beginning of the meeting you know I wouldn't use this the meeting you know I wouldn't use this the meeting you know I wouldn't use this terminology necessarily but I would say terminology necessarily but I would say terminology necessarily but I would say hey we're going to probably have tons of hey we're going to probably have tons of hey we're going to probably have tons of really bad ideas of this meeting we're really bad ideas of this meeting we're really bad ideas of this meeting we're gonna probably have some good ones if gonna probably have some good ones if gonna probably have some good ones if you think yours is good and nobody else you think yours is good and nobody else you think yours is good and nobody else agrees that's okay but put your big boy agrees that's okay but put your big boy agrees that's okay but put your big boy pants on you know we can't do it all pants on you know we can't do it all pants on you know we can't do it all anyway well hey there my name is Bart anyway well hey there my name is Bart anyway well hey there my name is Bart Blair and this is season three episode Blair and this is season three episode Blair and this is season three episode 24 of the mission marketing podcast our 24 of the mission marketing podcast our 24 of the mission marketing podcast our goal with this podcast is to help your goal with this podcast is to help your goal with this podcast is to help your church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications thanks so much for tuning in uh today thanks so much for tuning in uh today thanks so much for tuning in uh today I've got a great guest someone that if I've got a great guest someone that if I've got a great guest someone that if you've been listening to or watching our you've been listening to or watching our you've been listening to or watching our show on a YouTube channel for any length show on a YouTube channel for any length show on a YouTube channel for any length of time you might be familiar with Gavin of time you might be familiar with Gavin of time you might be familiar with Gavin Adams Gavin was on our show back in the Adams Gavin was on our show back in the Adams Gavin was on our show back in the summer of summer of summer of 2021 so it's been about a year and a 2021 so it's been about a year and a 2021 so it's been about a year and a half since he was on the show and half since he was on the show and half since he was on the show and interestingly the first episode which interestingly the first episode which interestingly the first episode which we'll link to in the show notes Here was we'll link to in the show notes Here was we'll link to in the show notes Here was the most has been the most downloaded the most has been the most downloaded the most has been the most downloaded episode of the podcast since we launched

episode of the podcast since we launched episode of the podcast since we launched this podcast in 2020 so if you uh find this podcast in 2020 so if you uh find this podcast in 2020 so if you uh find Gavin to be an interesting uh Gavin to be an interesting uh Gavin to be an interesting uh contributor to your world of ministry contributor to your world of ministry contributor to your world of ministry based on this conversation today I based on this conversation today I based on this conversation today I highly recommend that you uh swing back highly recommend that you uh swing back highly recommend that you uh swing back and listen to that archived episode from and listen to that archived episode from and listen to that archived episode from about a year and a half ago about a year and a half ago about a year and a half ago unfortunately my co co-host my unfortunately my co co-host my unfortunately my co co-host my co-podcasting partner I've had a hard co-podcasting partner I've had a hard co-podcasting partner I've had a hard time saying that today Jason Hamrock got time saying that today Jason Hamrock got time saying that today Jason Hamrock got tied up in another meeting and wasn't tied up in another meeting and wasn't tied up in another meeting and wasn't able to be on the call today but I did able to be on the call today but I did able to be on the call today but I did talk about him a little bit you'll hear talk about him a little bit you'll hear talk about him a little bit you'll hear me talk about him as we get into this me talk about him as we get into this me talk about him as we get into this conversation it's one that as a creative conversation it's one that as a creative conversation it's one that as a creative as a person serving in your local church as a person serving in your local church as a person serving in your local church I think you're really really going to I think you're really really going to I think you're really really going to find uh what Gavin shares with us today find uh what Gavin shares with us today find uh what Gavin shares with us today to be super beneficial super helpful for to be super beneficial super helpful for to be super beneficial super helpful for your ministry and if you do we'd really your ministry and if you do we'd really your ministry and if you do we'd really appreciate you giving us some feedback appreciate you giving us some feedback appreciate you giving us some feedback you can leave us a rating or review you can leave us a rating or review you can leave us a rating or review wherever it is that you consume this wherever it is that you consume this wherever it is that you consume this podcast whether that's your favorite podcast whether that's your favorite podcast whether that's your favorite podcasting app or on the YouTube channel podcasting app or on the YouTube channel podcasting app or on the YouTube channel and uh of course you know that by doing and uh of course you know that by doing and uh of course you know that by doing that you help more people find our that you help more people find our that you help more people find our podcast and will hopefully help more podcast and will hopefully help more podcast and will hopefully help more people that's what we're ultimately in people that's what we're ultimately in people that's what we're ultimately in the game of doing is helping churches the game of doing is helping churches the game of doing is helping churches reach more people so reach more people so reach more people so um thanks again for tuning in to this um thanks again for tuning in to this um thanks again for tuning in to this week's episode of the podcast and here's week's episode of the podcast and here's week's episode of the podcast and here's my conversation with Gavin Adams Gavin my conversation with Gavin Adams Gavin my conversation with Gavin Adams Gavin Adams welcome back to the missional Adams welcome back to the missional Adams welcome back to the missional marketing podcast I'm really excited marketing podcast I'm really excited marketing podcast I'm really excited that you could uh be with me I would say that you could uh be with me I would say that you could uh be with me I would say be with us but uh obviously we we just be with us but uh obviously we we just be with us but uh obviously we we just got a text from my co got a text from my co got a text from my co podcasting partner that one that's what podcasting partner that one that's what podcasting partner that one that's what he would be Jason Hamrock my he would be Jason Hamrock my he would be Jason Hamrock my co-podcasting partner that he got tied co-podcasting partner that he got tied co-podcasting partner that he got tied up in another meeting and wasn't going up in another meeting and wasn't going up in another meeting and wasn't going to be able to make it but uh hey I'm

to be able to make it but uh hey I'm to be able to make it but uh hey I'm glad to have the opportunity to hang out glad to have the opportunity to hang out glad to have the opportunity to hang out with you with you with you um the last time you were on our show um the last time you were on our show um the last time you were on our show was the summer of 2021 so it's been was the summer of 2021 so it's been was the summer of 2021 so it's been about a year and a half and at that time about a year and a half and at that time about a year and a half and at that time you were going through some pretty you were going through some pretty you were going through some pretty significant vocational and Ministry significant vocational and Ministry significant vocational and Ministry transition transition transition um so why don't you just kind of give us um so why don't you just kind of give us um so why don't you just kind of give us a little bit of backstory in terms of a little bit of backstory in terms of a little bit of backstory in terms of what you were doing at that time the what you were doing at that time the what you were doing at that time the transition you've made and and what's transition you've made and and what's transition you've made and and what's been happening here for the last year been happening here for the last year been happening here for the last year and a half yeah I'll make it really and a half yeah I'll make it really and a half yeah I'll make it really quick I um spent uh cash 13 years as a quick I um spent uh cash 13 years as a quick I um spent uh cash 13 years as a lead pastor of Woodstock City Church and lead pastor of Woodstock City Church and lead pastor of Woodstock City Church and it's a campus location of North Point it's a campus location of North Point it's a campus location of North Point Ministry so did that for a long time Ministry so did that for a long time Ministry so did that for a long time longer than ever thought I would not longer than ever thought I would not longer than ever thought I would not because of the job just because 13 years because of the job just because 13 years because of the job just because 13 years seems like a long time for anything for seems like a long time for anything for seems like a long time for anything for me but did that for 13 years and I had a me but did that for 13 years and I had a me but did that for 13 years and I had a couple of things happen great things couple of things happen great things couple of things happen great things happen where I interviewed for another happen where I interviewed for another happen where I interviewed for another job at one point and then finished some job at one point and then finished some job at one point and then finished some educational stuff and kind of the educational stuff and kind of the educational stuff and kind of the combination really made me it forced me combination really made me it forced me combination really made me it forced me Mark to decide if I felt like the season Mark to decide if I felt like the season Mark to decide if I felt like the season of leading at that local church was of leading at that local church was of leading at that local church was ending and maybe God was opening up ending and maybe God was opening up ending and maybe God was opening up something else to do and so when the something else to do and so when the something else to do and so when the other job and something that didn't work other job and something that didn't work other job and something that didn't work out the way I thought it might I still out the way I thought it might I still out the way I thought it might I still felt like it might be time to go and felt like it might be time to go and felt like it might be time to go and process that for a good while with Andy process that for a good while with Andy process that for a good while with Andy and all the guys at North Point and and all the guys at North Point and and all the guys at North Point and eventually decided it was so I left in eventually decided it was so I left in eventually decided it was so I left in August of 2021 August the 1st was my August of 2021 August the 1st was my August of 2021 August the 1st was my last Sunday so I preached and then last Sunday so I preached and then last Sunday so I preached and then walked out into the sunset uh and had a walked out into the sunset uh and had a walked out into the sunset uh and had a really really relaxing month uh out of really really relaxing month uh out of really really relaxing month uh out of that everybody who's in Ministry knows that everybody who's in Ministry knows that everybody who's in Ministry knows there's just a unique weight that you there's just a unique weight that you there's just a unique weight that you carry carry carry um I had people tell me before I started

um I had people tell me before I started um I had people tell me before I started the ministry job but the weight was the ministry job but the weight was the ministry job but the weight was going to be harder and I just thought going to be harder and I just thought going to be harder and I just thought they were bad leaders then I realized they were bad leaders then I realized they were bad leaders then I realized that nope it's true so uh I I shed some that nope it's true so uh I I shed some that nope it's true so uh I I shed some of that weight in a good way immediately of that weight in a good way immediately of that weight in a good way immediately and you could tell and you could tell and you could tell um and got really to work as quick as I um and got really to work as quick as I um and got really to work as quick as I can helping churches and so I love can helping churches and so I love can helping churches and so I love leadership and I love strategy I say leadership and I love strategy I say leadership and I love strategy I say this so much but you know without a this so much but you know without a this so much but you know without a system or without strategy all success system or without strategy all success system or without strategy all success we have is uh accidental and we have is uh accidental and we have is uh accidental and unrepeatable uh and then even worse when unrepeatable uh and then even worse when unrepeatable uh and then even worse when something isn't working you can't fix it something isn't working you can't fix it something isn't working you can't fix it because you don't know why it's worked because you don't know why it's worked because you don't know why it's worked or why it's not working now so I just or why it's not working now so I just or why it's not working now so I just love that strategy aspect of ministry love that strategy aspect of ministry love that strategy aspect of ministry and of course the way the world and of course the way the world and of course the way the world continues to evolve so quickly right the continues to evolve so quickly right the continues to evolve so quickly right the more uh the the faster that pace of more uh the the faster that pace of more uh the the faster that pace of change the more we have to adapt we have change the more we have to adapt we have change the more we have to adapt we have the more we have to remodel Church the more we have to remodel Church the more we have to remodel Church models the more we have to systematize models the more we have to systematize models the more we have to systematize what we're doing or rethink and what we're doing or rethink and what we're doing or rethink and re-systematize so that's what I've been re-systematize so that's what I've been re-systematize so that's what I've been doing for the last year and a half and doing for the last year and a half and doing for the last year and a half and working with lots of different churches working with lots of different churches working with lots of different churches um you know in three different roles uh um you know in three different roles uh um you know in three different roles uh just very quickly I do a lot of things just very quickly I do a lot of things just very quickly I do a lot of things done uh for people I do a lot of longer done uh for people I do a lot of longer done uh for people I do a lot of longer term Consulting engagements and a lot of term Consulting engagements and a lot of term Consulting engagements and a lot of preaching and Strat work and things like preaching and Strat work and things like preaching and Strat work and things like that but kind of do some done with you that but kind of do some done with you that but kind of do some done with you and done by you stuff done with you a and done by you stuff done with you a and done by you stuff done with you a lot of master classes and small group lot of master classes and small group lot of master classes and small group experiences where we get together and experiences where we get together and experiences where we get together and dig into things like church models or uh dig into things like church models or uh dig into things like church models or uh generosity and volunteer systems and you generosity and volunteer systems and you generosity and volunteer systems and you know all the things that we need to have know all the things that we need to have know all the things that we need to have happen in our churches uh discipleship happen in our churches uh discipleship happen in our churches uh discipleship Pathways and then I have courses and Pathways and then I have courses and Pathways and then I have courses and products and things like bad that people products and things like bad that people products and things like bad that people can do it on their own can do it on their own can do it on their own um so yeah how's that for an answer is um so yeah how's that for an answer is um so yeah how's that for an answer is that quick enough no that's real that's that quick enough no that's real that's that quick enough no that's real that's really good Gavin you know you you come really good Gavin you know you you come really good Gavin you know you you come from a church you're in a Ministry um

from a church you're in a Ministry um from a church you're in a Ministry um that is very strategic in terms of the that is very strategic in terms of the that is very strategic in terms of the way that Ministry is done way that Ministry is done way that Ministry is done um do you come by being a strategist um do you come by being a strategist um do you come by being a strategist naturally is that something that you naturally is that something that you naturally is that something that you just feel like God has wired you to to just feel like God has wired you to to just feel like God has wired you to to do yeah I I don't I I don't know how I do yeah I I don't I I don't know how I do yeah I I don't I I don't know how I just assumed everybody was this way just assumed everybody was this way just assumed everybody was this way until I grew up and realized that that until I grew up and realized that that until I grew up and realized that that I'm I was weird I'm I was weird I'm I was weird um and I and I don't know how not to do um and I and I don't know how not to do um and I and I don't know how not to do that I I you know I'm on a four-lane uh that I I you know I'm on a four-lane uh that I I you know I'm on a four-lane uh Highway and I pull up to a red light and Highway and I pull up to a red light and Highway and I pull up to a red light and I'm evaluating every I mean I don't just I'm evaluating every I mean I don't just I'm evaluating every I mean I don't just get in the shortest Lane I'm evaluating get in the shortest Lane I'm evaluating get in the shortest Lane I'm evaluating every car in every lane what kind of every car in every lane what kind of every car in every lane what kind of driver I'm very judgmental on this but driver I'm very judgmental on this but driver I'm very judgmental on this but what kind of driver I suspect is in each what kind of driver I suspect is in each what kind of driver I suspect is in each car uh which one is not pulled up as far car uh which one is not pulled up as far car uh which one is not pulled up as far as they could to the line because I want as they could to the line because I want as they could to the line because I want to go fast as I can through this like so to go fast as I can through this like so to go fast as I can through this like so and I mean it's exhausting to be me but and I mean it's exhausting to be me but and I mean it's exhausting to be me but everything is a strategy and so uh which everything is a strategy and so uh which everything is a strategy and so uh which I think makes for some good good I think makes for some good good I think makes for some good good organizational decisions it also can be organizational decisions it also can be organizational decisions it also can be tiring so and what I've found is as much tiring so and what I've found is as much tiring so and what I've found is as much as I love I mean the kind of phrase I as I love I mean the kind of phrase I as I love I mean the kind of phrase I use a lot on my website is adding use a lot on my website is adding use a lot on my website is adding intention to your mission but what I intention to your mission but what I intention to your mission but what I have found and this is what we all have found and this is what we all have found and this is what we all believe in Ministry that there's no believe in Ministry that there's no believe in Ministry that there's no Mission more important than the you know Mission more important than the you know Mission more important than the you know mission of the local church and so if mission of the local church and so if mission of the local church and so if any mission is going to have intention any mission is going to have intention any mission is going to have intention behind it and if any mission is going to behind it and if any mission is going to behind it and if any mission is going to be driven with really great strategies be driven with really great strategies be driven with really great strategies and systems and things like that it and systems and things like that it and systems and things like that it really should be the local church and uh really should be the local church and uh really should be the local church and uh and in no way taking God out of that but and in no way taking God out of that but and in no way taking God out of that but you know we we talk a lot give me 10 you know we we talk a lot give me 10 you know we we talk a lot give me 10 seconds on this if you don't mind but seconds on this if you don't mind but seconds on this if you don't mind but you know I talked to so many churches you know I talked to so many churches you know I talked to so many churches who and I love this too we want to talk who and I love this too we want to talk who and I love this too we want to talk about the local body local church as an about the local body local church as an about the local body local church as an organism and it's true it is an organism organism and it's true it is an organism organism and it's true it is an organism but I have yet to see any organism

but I have yet to see any organism but I have yet to see any organism function healthily without organization function healthily without organization function healthily without organization I mean think about our bodies right like I mean think about our bodies right like I mean think about our bodies right like our bodies are so well organized and put our bodies are so well organized and put our bodies are so well organized and put one viral cell in to throw it into one viral cell in to throw it into one viral cell in to throw it into disorganization and watch what happens disorganization and watch what happens disorganization and watch what happens to the organism right so helping these to the organism right so helping these to the organism right so helping these organisms these local church has become organisms these local church has become organisms these local church has become as organized as they can that's the as organized as they can that's the as organized as they can that's the thing that just fires me up I love doing thing that just fires me up I love doing thing that just fires me up I love doing that yeah that's very cool I can't help that yeah that's very cool I can't help that yeah that's very cool I can't help but but but Envision you know for 20 years I lived Envision you know for 20 years I lived Envision you know for 20 years I lived in Canada and so several times a year we in Canada and so several times a year we in Canada and so several times a year we would drive across the U.S Canadian would drive across the U.S Canadian would drive across the U.S Canadian border and you know one of the games border and you know one of the games border and you know one of the games that we always played was which Customs that we always played was which Customs that we always played was which Customs line is going to move the fastest I wish line is going to move the fastest I wish line is going to move the fastest I wish I had you in the car with me maybe yeah I get that well hey I I think that you I get that well hey I I think that you know actually you've set us up very well know actually you've set us up very well know actually you've set us up very well for the the topic of conversation that I for the the topic of conversation that I for the the topic of conversation that I wanted to have with you today wanted to have with you today wanted to have with you today um in terms of talking about uh um in terms of talking about uh um in terms of talking about uh strategies and plans you know many of strategies and plans you know many of strategies and plans you know many of the people who listen to this podcast or the people who listen to this podcast or the people who listen to this podcast or watching our YouTube channel come from a watching our YouTube channel come from a watching our YouTube channel come from a very creative space we have a lot of very creative space we have a lot of very creative space we have a lot of communications directors creative communications directors creative communications directors creative directors people that are involved in directors people that are involved in directors people that are involved in the creative development of weekend the creative development of weekend the creative development of weekend worship Services uh Outreach events and worship Services uh Outreach events and worship Services uh Outreach events and activities and one of the things that activities and one of the things that activities and one of the things that I've noted in my life and in my Ministry I've noted in my life and in my Ministry I've noted in my life and in my Ministry is that um creatives often fail to have is that um creatives often fail to have is that um creatives often fail to have the kind of discipline structure and the kind of discipline structure and the kind of discipline structure and strategies to their creative process strategies to their creative process strategies to their creative process that'll actually enable them to have the that'll actually enable them to have the that'll actually enable them to have the most success and to execute well and so most success and to execute well and so most success and to execute well and so at the time that you and I are recording at the time that you and I are recording at the time that you and I are recording this podcast I know for a fact that many

this podcast I know for a fact that many this podcast I know for a fact that many of um my friends working in churches are of um my friends working in churches are of um my friends working in churches are sitting around a room with their teams sitting around a room with their teams sitting around a room with their teams dreaming about Easter because that's the dreaming about Easter because that's the dreaming about Easter because that's the season we're in we're during this in season we're in we're during this in season we're in we're during this in January and churches are are having January and churches are are having January and churches are are having their creative planning meetings for their creative planning meetings for their creative planning meetings for their Easter services Easter Outreach their Easter services Easter Outreach their Easter services Easter Outreach events their Post Easter callback series events their Post Easter callback series events their Post Easter callback series anything and everything that they're anything and everything that they're anything and everything that they're doing and you have a blog post on your doing and you have a blog post on your doing and you have a blog post on your website that caught my attention 10 website that caught my attention 10 website that caught my attention 10 rules to keep creative meetings creative rules to keep creative meetings creative rules to keep creative meetings creative it just it seems contradictory that we it just it seems contradictory that we it just it seems contradictory that we would create rules in order to be more would create rules in order to be more would create rules in order to be more creative but I wanted to talk through creative but I wanted to talk through creative but I wanted to talk through this blog post with you this topic of this blog post with you this topic of this blog post with you this topic of conversation uh to those that are conversation uh to those that are conversation uh to those that are listening to those that are about to go listening to those that are about to go listening to those that are about to go into a creative planning meeting and into a creative planning meeting and into a creative planning meeting and give them some rules give them some give them some rules give them some give them some rules give them some guidelines or some guard rails that guidelines or some guard rails that guidelines or some guard rails that might actually help them get the most might actually help them get the most might actually help them get the most out of their their experience now we're out of their their experience now we're out of their their experience now we're only going to cover the first five that only going to cover the first five that only going to cover the first five that were on your list there are 10 on the were on your list there are 10 on the were on your list there are 10 on the list we're going to talk about five of list we're going to talk about five of list we're going to talk about five of them today we're gonna put a link to the them today we're gonna put a link to the them today we're gonna put a link to the full blog post in our show notes so if full blog post in our show notes so if full blog post in our show notes so if you're listening to this are you you're listening to this are you you're listening to this are you watching it and you want to go read the watching it and you want to go read the watching it and you want to go read the other five I advise that you do but other five I advise that you do but other five I advise that you do but let's start art with the number one that let's start art with the number one that let's start art with the number one that I have on our list here to discuss Gavin I have on our list here to discuss Gavin I have on our list here to discuss Gavin and that is you just simply say don't and that is you just simply say don't and that is you just simply say don't kill a bad idea too soon why is that an kill a bad idea too soon why is that an kill a bad idea too soon why is that an important rule for us yeah well let me important rule for us yeah well let me important rule for us yeah well let me let me back up one second then I'll let me back up one second then I'll let me back up one second then I'll address that rule address that rule address that rule um uh as much as I'm a strategist uh and um uh as much as I'm a strategist uh and um uh as much as I'm a strategist uh and this is probably a weird brain problem this is probably a weird brain problem this is probably a weird brain problem with me I'm an artist as well so I'm a

with me I'm an artist as well so I'm a with me I'm an artist as well so I'm a cartoonist and or was I guess but not cartoonist and or was I guess but not cartoonist and or was I guess but not practicing artist now but I love ideas I practicing artist now but I love ideas I practicing artist now but I love ideas I love creativity love creativity love creativity um actually strategy is creativity it um actually strategy is creativity it um actually strategy is creativity it just looks different so uh solving just looks different so uh solving just looks different so uh solving problems is creative uh work and so what problems is creative uh work and so what problems is creative uh work and so what I found constantly as a creative myself I found constantly as a creative myself I found constantly as a creative myself who just loves ideas is that we were who just loves ideas is that we were who just loves ideas is that we were walking into these creative meetings and walking into these creative meetings and walking into these creative meetings and we were having creative meetings once a we were having creative meetings once a we were having creative meetings once a week right we're designing church week right we're designing church week right we're designing church services uh every seven days it feels services uh every seven days it feels services uh every seven days it feels like every three or four so we're like every three or four so we're like every three or four so we're constantly creating and we want every constantly creating and we want every constantly creating and we want every experience to be great we want it uh to experience to be great we want it uh to experience to be great we want it uh to not just be great experience wanting to not just be great experience wanting to not just be great experience wanting to drive steps I want to do you know do the drive steps I want to do you know do the drive steps I want to do you know do the things Beyond just create a moment and things Beyond just create a moment and things Beyond just create a moment and so we're having all these incredible so we're having all these incredible so we're having all these incredible creative ideas these meetings and too creative ideas these meetings and too creative ideas these meetings and too often I think we walked out of these often I think we walked out of these often I think we walked out of these meetings either without allowing the meetings either without allowing the meetings either without allowing the best ideas to surface because they got best ideas to surface because they got best ideas to surface because they got shut down or what have you uh or we shut down or what have you uh or we shut down or what have you uh or we walked out with an idea we latched on to walked out with an idea we latched on to walked out with an idea we latched on to in the very beginning which shut the in the very beginning which shut the in the very beginning which shut the rest of the process down anyway so as a rest of the process down anyway so as a rest of the process down anyway so as a creative I walked out feeling like we creative I walked out feeling like we creative I walked out feeling like we might not be getting the best out of the might not be getting the best out of the might not be getting the best out of the creative meeting so we did we created creative meeting so we did we created creative meeting so we did we created these 10 rules for our creative meeting these 10 rules for our creative meeting these 10 rules for our creative meeting so number one don't kill don't kill a so number one don't kill don't kill a so number one don't kill don't kill a bad idea too soon bad idea too soon bad idea too soon um I kind of started embracing the um I kind of started embracing the um I kind of started embracing the phrase which I know a lot of a lot of phrase which I know a lot of a lot of phrase which I know a lot of a lot of people do but this is probably a bad people do but this is probably a bad people do but this is probably a bad idea but I I would say it constantly and idea but I I would say it constantly and idea but I I would say it constantly and and I I learned to say it because if I and I I learned to say it because if I and I I learned to say it because if I didn't it was a bad idea and people didn't it was a bad idea and people didn't it was a bad idea and people would point it out and then we would would point it out and then we would would point it out and then we would move on to something else and so when I

move on to something else and so when I move on to something else and so when I could acknowledge that this might be a could acknowledge that this might be a could acknowledge that this might be a bad idea but what it typically did is bad idea but what it typically did is bad idea but what it typically did is give everyone a space to pause and give everyone a space to pause and give everyone a space to pause and listen and and you know this in an listen and and you know this in an listen and and you know this in an ideation kind of session in a room bad ideation kind of session in a room bad ideation kind of session in a room bad ideas are often the birthing grounds for ideas are often the birthing grounds for ideas are often the birthing grounds for the greatest ideas but if we shut the the greatest ideas but if we shut the the greatest ideas but if we shut the bad idea down too quick we don't allow bad idea down too quick we don't allow bad idea down too quick we don't allow it to birth or you know evolve into what it to birth or you know evolve into what it to birth or you know evolve into what it could be so we just had a rule you it could be so we just had a rule you it could be so we just had a rule you just don't kill ideas in the beginning just don't kill ideas in the beginning just don't kill ideas in the beginning we we may put them on the parking lot we we may put them on the parking lot we we may put them on the parking lot side of the white board but we're not side of the white board but we're not side of the white board but we're not going to Nix anything in a creative going to Nix anything in a creative going to Nix anything in a creative meeting because that's what it is it's meeting because that's what it is it's meeting because that's what it is it's about creativity yeah yeah that's that's about creativity yeah yeah that's that's about creativity yeah yeah that's that's really cool I think that uh you know really cool I think that uh you know really cool I think that uh you know there's a strategy to brainstorming and there's a strategy to brainstorming and there's a strategy to brainstorming and one of what you know one of the things one of what you know one of the things one of what you know one of the things that you you want to do when you when that you you want to do when you when that you you want to do when you when you brainstorm is make sure that you you brainstorm is make sure that you you brainstorm is make sure that you give everybody an opportunity to share give everybody an opportunity to share give everybody an opportunity to share their ideas and their thoughts without their ideas and their thoughts without their ideas and their thoughts without shutting anything down even if it feels shutting anything down even if it feels shutting anything down even if it feels like a bad idea even if it feels like like a bad idea even if it feels like like a bad idea even if it feels like it's out of left field even if it feels it's out of left field even if it feels it's out of left field even if it feels like it doesn't align with the strategy like it doesn't align with the strategy like it doesn't align with the strategy or what you're trying to accomplish or what you're trying to accomplish or what you're trying to accomplish because it might actually lead to because it might actually lead to because it might actually lead to someone else's idea that you know you someone else's idea that you know you someone else's idea that you know you you said don't kill a bad idea too soon you said don't kill a bad idea too soon you said don't kill a bad idea too soon I would even say don't shut a lot of I would even say don't shut a lot of I would even say don't shut a lot of people will not share their own idea people will not share their own idea people will not share their own idea because they think it's a bad idea because they think it's a bad idea because they think it's a bad idea that's right your idea might actually that's right your idea might actually that's right your idea might actually inspire someone else to come up with a inspire someone else to come up with a inspire someone else to come up with a creative idea the reason I'll tell you I creative idea the reason I'll tell you I creative idea the reason I'll tell you I mean I mean all 10 I think are important mean I mean all 10 I think are important mean I mean all 10 I think are important but uh and this one uniquely and you but uh and this one uniquely and you but uh and this one uniquely and you just kind of alluded to it that when you just kind of alluded to it that when you just kind of alluded to it that when you sh when you kill bad ideas too quick the sh when you kill bad ideas too quick the sh when you kill bad ideas too quick the people in the room who aren't as secure people in the room who aren't as secure people in the room who aren't as secure in their role or their voice or whatever

in their role or their voice or whatever in their role or their voice or whatever they're not going to share it they're they're not going to share it they're they're not going to share it they're not going to share their idea because not going to share their idea because not going to share their idea because they're afraid of getting shut down I they're afraid of getting shut down I they're afraid of getting shut down I mean again none of us are longing for mean again none of us are longing for mean again none of us are longing for more rejection in our life and so we're more rejection in our life and so we're more rejection in our life and so we're not going to share the idea if we think not going to share the idea if we think not going to share the idea if we think it's going to get shut down too quick uh it's going to get shut down too quick uh it's going to get shut down too quick uh and to your point and you know this and to your point and you know this and to your point and you know this every room has people whose words carry every room has people whose words carry every room has people whose words carry more weight uh I was a lead Pastor for more weight uh I was a lead Pastor for more weight uh I was a lead Pastor for 13 years every room I was in my idea 13 years every room I was in my idea 13 years every room I was in my idea unfortunately good or bad carried more unfortunately good or bad carried more unfortunately good or bad carried more weight than everyone else's and we had weight than everyone else's and we had weight than everyone else's and we had to figure out a way around that and so to figure out a way around that and so to figure out a way around that and so um not just saying it but doing it um not just saying it but doing it um not just saying it but doing it allowing people to share bad ideas allowing people to share bad ideas allowing people to share bad ideas listen to me honest I never told our listen to me honest I never told our listen to me honest I never told our team this sometimes I would share team this sometimes I would share team this sometimes I would share horrible ideas on purpose horrible ideas on purpose horrible ideas on purpose just to make sure we weren't killing just to make sure we weren't killing just to make sure we weren't killing them and to let the people around me who them and to let the people around me who them and to let the people around me who were younger newer in their roles you were younger newer in their roles you were younger newer in their roles you know not not you know as maybe don't know not not you know as maybe don't know not not you know as maybe don't they didn't feel as comfortable in the they didn't feel as comfortable in the they didn't feel as comfortable in the meeting if they were like well if that meeting if they were like well if that meeting if they were like well if that if that idiot just shared that idea my if that idiot just shared that idea my if that idiot just shared that idea my idea isn't as bad anymore right so again idea isn't as bad anymore right so again idea isn't as bad anymore right so again making that a rule but then actually making that a rule but then actually making that a rule but then actually holding the rule in place is so critical holding the rule in place is so critical holding the rule in place is so critical to uh engaging everyone in the meeting to uh engaging everyone in the meeting to uh engaging everyone in the meeting yeah all right so number one don't kill yeah all right so number one don't kill yeah all right so number one don't kill a bad idea too soon we'll let you decide a bad idea too soon we'll let you decide a bad idea too soon we'll let you decide how long too soon is you got to leave it how long too soon is you got to leave it how long too soon is you got to leave it on the Whiteboard for a little while on the Whiteboard for a little while on the Whiteboard for a little while you end up choosing the idea you're you end up choosing the idea you're you end up choosing the idea you're gonna go with right ideas at the end of gonna go with right ideas at the end of gonna go with right ideas at the end of the meeting and then when you have a the meeting and then when you have a the meeting and then when you have a follow-up meeting where you're not in follow-up meeting where you're not in follow-up meeting where you're not in creative mode now you're in decision creative mode now you're in decision creative mode now you're in decision making mode right that's when things get making mode right that's when things get making mode right that's when things get killed yeah now the second one on the killed yeah now the second one on the killed yeah now the second one on the list here I I'm gonna say that list here I I'm gonna say that list here I I'm gonna say that I was I was somewhat convicted maybe not

I was I was somewhat convicted maybe not I was I was somewhat convicted maybe not to current or recent events in my life to current or recent events in my life to current or recent events in my life but looking back to creative planning but looking back to creative planning but looking back to creative planning meetings that I actually used to meetings that I actually used to meetings that I actually used to facilitate as the worship pastor and facilitate as the worship pastor and facilitate as the worship pastor and creative arts director in the church creative arts director in the church creative arts director in the church where I served where I served where I served um and that is in that meeting this is um and that is in that meeting this is um and that is in that meeting this is the way you State this stick to wow not the way you State this stick to wow not the way you State this stick to wow not how why don't you unpack that a little how why don't you unpack that a little how why don't you unpack that a little bit Yeah well you know I love these I bit Yeah well you know I love these I bit Yeah well you know I love these I love the how people we need how people love the how people we need how people love the how people we need how people if we just had wow people we get nothing if we just had wow people we get nothing if we just had wow people we get nothing done so we need people who can done so we need people who can done so we need people who can orchestrate the problem is is that when orchestrate the problem is is that when orchestrate the problem is is that when we're in the middle of an 88 and then we're in the middle of an 88 and then we're in the middle of an 88 and then everybody wants to start orchestrating everybody wants to start orchestrating everybody wants to start orchestrating it destroys the ideation so we have to it destroys the ideation so we have to it destroys the ideation so we have to really delineate between is this meeting really delineate between is this meeting really delineate between is this meeting about ideas or is this meeting about about ideas or is this meeting about about ideas or is this meeting about implementation and so that's the implementation and so that's the implementation and so that's the difference while and how so we even difference while and how so we even difference while and how so we even adopted that common language which again adopted that common language which again adopted that common language which again common language is so important uh we we common language is so important uh we we common language is so important uh we we didn't want to only invite the hyper didn't want to only invite the hyper didn't want to only invite the hyper creatives in everyone one of these creatives in everyone one of these creatives in everyone one of these creative meetings we needed some people creative meetings we needed some people creative meetings we needed some people who could think through it with a More who could think through it with a More who could think through it with a More Level ahead the problem is is that those Level ahead the problem is is that those Level ahead the problem is is that those more level-headed thinkers oftentimes more level-headed thinkers oftentimes more level-headed thinkers oftentimes wanted to shut down the conversations wanted to shut down the conversations wanted to shut down the conversations because an idea seems so ridiculous that because an idea seems so ridiculous that because an idea seems so ridiculous that all they can think of is how are we all they can think of is how are we all they can think of is how are we going to do this do we have budget do we going to do this do we have budget do we going to do this do we have budget do we have time is all those doobie doobie have time is all those doobie doobie have time is all those doobie doobie Deweys and we need to answer those but Deweys and we need to answer those but Deweys and we need to answer those but not yet we save that for later and so I not yet we save that for later and so I not yet we save that for later and so I I can tell you I won't you know give you I can tell you I won't you know give you I can tell you I won't you know give you hundreds of examples but I'll give you hundreds of examples but I'll give you hundreds of examples but I'll give you one really quick one I mean we were one really quick one I mean we were one really quick one I mean we were doing a series I loved the October

doing a series I loved the October doing a series I loved the October season in church because of the pairing season in church because of the pairing season in church because of the pairing with Halloween in the fall you know and with Halloween in the fall you know and with Halloween in the fall you know and there's so much fun biblical stuff you there's so much fun biblical stuff you there's so much fun biblical stuff you can do that feels a little bit it leans can do that feels a little bit it leans can do that feels a little bit it leans into the mysterious side so we did a into the mysterious side so we did a into the mysterious side so we did a series called scared to death uh that I series called scared to death uh that I series called scared to death uh that I did I had a bad idea that we couldn't did I had a bad idea that we couldn't did I had a bad idea that we couldn't shut down because of the rule but uh how shut down because of the rule but uh how shut down because of the rule but uh how I mean a wow moment where I said what if I mean a wow moment where I said what if I mean a wow moment where I said what if we created a really fun haunted house we created a really fun haunted house we created a really fun haunted house experience in the lobby of the church experience in the lobby of the church experience in the lobby of the church just go with me for a minute and we put just go with me for a minute and we put just go with me for a minute and we put cameras inside of it so that you could cameras inside of it so that you could cameras inside of it so that you could sit in the auditorium and have the sit in the auditorium and have the sit in the auditorium and have the camera feed into the room watch people camera feed into the room watch people camera feed into the room watch people be scared before they come into church be scared before they come into church be scared before they come into church you don't have to go through it if you you don't have to go through it if you you don't have to go through it if you don't want but we get to watch the don't want but we get to watch the don't want but we get to watch the people who do I thought it was brilliant people who do I thought it was brilliant people who do I thought it was brilliant right now immediately one of our staff right now immediately one of our staff right now immediately one of our staff members goes well that's going to cost members goes well that's going to cost members goes well that's going to cost and we have to get wood and we have to and we have to get wood and we have to and we have to get wood and we have to I'm like look who cares like you know I'm like look who cares like you know I'm like look who cares like you know you know we ended up not doing it for you know we ended up not doing it for you know we ended up not doing it for lots of good reasons but that bad idea lots of good reasons but that bad idea lots of good reasons but that bad idea because we didn't allow it to be killed because we didn't allow it to be killed because we didn't allow it to be killed and we didn't allow the cow person to and we didn't allow the cow person to and we didn't allow the cow person to dominate that meeting it led to some dominate that meeting it led to some dominate that meeting it led to some really good ideas around that series really good ideas around that series really good ideas around that series that were probably even better than a that were probably even better than a that were probably even better than a haunted house in the lobby of the church haunted house in the lobby of the church haunted house in the lobby of the church but with all of that um with with you but with all of that um with with you but with all of that um with with you know not letting the how person dominate know not letting the how person dominate know not letting the how person dominate it it allowed it to evolve over time you it it allowed it to evolve over time you it it allowed it to evolve over time you know like marinate with all of us and it know like marinate with all of us and it know like marinate with all of us and it led to doing some really cool stuff with led to doing some really cool stuff with led to doing some really cool stuff with the series but there's a time and place the series but there's a time and place the series but there's a time and place for for a while it just isn't in the for for a while it just isn't in the for for a while it just isn't in the creative meeting well let me ask you a creative meeting well let me ask you a creative meeting well let me ask you a question then this actually makes me question then this actually makes me question then this actually makes me think of something else and when you're

think of something else and when you're think of something else and when you're having a creative meeting having a creative meeting having a creative meeting is it important in those early stages to is it important in those early stages to is it important in those early stages to maybe even decide who is and who who maybe even decide who is and who who maybe even decide who is and who who should and who shouldn't be in those should and who shouldn't be in those should and who shouldn't be in those meetings would you create really some meetings would you create really some meetings would you create really some profiles I mean you get too many hows in profiles I mean you get too many hows in profiles I mean you get too many hows in the room yeah then it's really difficult the room yeah then it's really difficult the room yeah then it's really difficult to create the wow what are your thoughts to create the wow what are your thoughts to create the wow what are your thoughts on that here's the challenge though if on that here's the challenge though if on that here's the challenge though if you don't have any any of the you don't have any any of the you don't have any any of the orchestrators in the room the people who orchestrators in the room the people who orchestrators in the room the people who are going to pull it off if they are are going to pull it off if they are are going to pull it off if they are absent from the meeting they're absent absent from the meeting they're absent absent from the meeting they're absent from the conversation and the passion from the conversation and the passion from the conversation and the passion and the energy around it and and you and the energy around it and and you and the energy around it and and you know you can't ask people to buy into know you can't ask people to buy into know you can't ask people to buy into something if they don't get to weigh something if they don't get to weigh something if they don't get to weigh into it that's just a leadership into it that's just a leadership into it that's just a leadership principle right so what we what we principle right so what we what we principle right so what we what we learned is in the creative meetings are learned is in the creative meetings are learned is in the creative meetings are creative people on the teams would get creative people on the teams would get creative people on the teams would get they were they would get so fired up so they were they would get so fired up so they were they would get so fired up so excited or orchestrators would be not excited or orchestrators would be not excited or orchestrators would be not quite as thrilled about the meaning quite as thrilled about the meaning quite as thrilled about the meaning that's okay because we knew later in the that's okay because we knew later in the that's okay because we knew later in the week we were going to reverse the week we were going to reverse the week we were going to reverse the conversation and we were going to have conversation and we were going to have conversation and we were going to have an orchestration meeting and they were an orchestration meeting and they were an orchestration meeting and they were going to get the to be the ones choosing going to get the to be the ones choosing going to get the to be the ones choosing and picking and killing stuff where the and picking and killing stuff where the and picking and killing stuff where the creative types got to you know we'll creative types got to you know we'll creative types got to you know we'll talk about this later man to put their talk about this later man to put their talk about this later man to put their big boy pants on a little bit and you big boy pants on a little bit and you big boy pants on a little bit and you know just because it's a good idea it know just because it's a good idea it know just because it's a good idea it doesn't mean we can do it all the time doesn't mean we can do it all the time doesn't mean we can do it all the time right I mean it's a million dollar idea right I mean it's a million dollar idea right I mean it's a million dollar idea it's fantastic but you know we've got 50 it's fantastic but you know we've got 50 it's fantastic but you know we've got 50 bucks so we can't do it so bucks so we can't do it so bucks so we can't do it so um I enjoyed bringing in some of those um I enjoyed bringing in some of those um I enjoyed bringing in some of those orchestrators into the room orchestrators into the room orchestrators into the room and then coaching them through how to and then coaching them through how to and then coaching them through how to sit through the process well yeah sit through the process well yeah sit through the process well yeah because they needed to hear where we because they needed to hear where we because they needed to hear where we were heading with the ideas so as they

were heading with the ideas so as they were heading with the ideas so as they even began orchestrating and building even began orchestrating and building even began orchestrating and building you know sets or whatever they're doing you know sets or whatever they're doing you know sets or whatever they're doing that they understood where it came from that they understood where it came from that they understood where it came from yeah that makes a lot of sense uh I'm yeah that makes a lot of sense uh I'm yeah that makes a lot of sense uh I'm I'm gonna give a plug for and I'm I'm I'm gonna give a plug for and I'm I'm I'm gonna give a plug for and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna assume that you've at gonna I'm gonna assume that you've at gonna I'm gonna assume that you've at least familiar with the content of least familiar with the content of least familiar with the content of Patrick colencioni's uh six types of Patrick colencioni's uh six types of Patrick colencioni's uh six types of working genius absolutely we've we've working genius absolutely we've we've working genius absolutely we've we've done that with our team uh here at done that with our team uh here at done that with our team uh here at missional marketing and it has been missional marketing and it has been missional marketing and it has been incredibly insightful incredibly insightful incredibly insightful um not that we don't include all six um not that we don't include all six um not that we don't include all six types of working genius in our planning types of working genius in our planning types of working genius in our planning meetings in our creative meetings but meetings in our creative meetings but meetings in our creative meetings but going through that process has actually going through that process has actually going through that process has actually helped us all better understand who's helped us all better understand who's helped us all better understand who's sitting in what seats and what is sitting in what seats and what is sitting in what seats and what is actually going to be most engaged and actually going to be most engaged and actually going to be most engaged and most helpful in which process or part of most helpful in which process or part of most helpful in which process or part of the process of dreaming up ideas and the process of dreaming up ideas and the process of dreaming up ideas and then Discerning those ideas and then then Discerning those ideas and then then Discerning those ideas and then executing on those ideas so yeah I would executing on those ideas so yeah I would executing on those ideas so yeah I would never suggest that a church does this never suggest that a church does this never suggest that a church does this but the idea is right uh you've seen uh but the idea is right uh you've seen uh but the idea is right uh you've seen uh you know you maybe watch The West Wing you know you maybe watch The West Wing you know you maybe watch The West Wing or some show on the president the White or some show on the president the White or some show on the president the White House what have you you know there's a House what have you you know there's a House what have you you know there's a there's a boardroom table where where there's a boardroom table where where there's a boardroom table where where the president vice president you know the president vice president you know the president vice president you know whoever else is in director level goals whoever else is in director level goals whoever else is in director level goals is sitting around the table and around is sitting around the table and around is sitting around the table and around the perimeter of the room you've got all the perimeter of the room you've got all the perimeter of the room you've got all of these supporting staff these support of these supporting staff these support of these supporting staff these support you know infrastructure people they're you know infrastructure people they're you know infrastructure people they're not there to talk they're there to not there to talk they're there to not there to talk they're there to listen you know the people at the table listen you know the people at the table listen you know the people at the table talk the people of the in the perimeter talk the people of the in the perimeter talk the people of the in the perimeter listen would never structure it that way listen would never structure it that way listen would never structure it that way but at least in the church but when we

but at least in the church but when we but at least in the church but when we would sit around a table and talk we all would sit around a table and talk we all would sit around a table and talk we all sat around it but our creatives knew sat around it but our creatives knew sat around it but our creatives knew that that was their space to be creative that that was their space to be creative that that was their space to be creative or orchestrators knew are how people or orchestrators knew are how people or orchestrators knew are how people knew that that wasn't the place for them knew that that wasn't the place for them knew that that wasn't the place for them to be very vocal they needed to listen a to be very vocal they needed to listen a to be very vocal they needed to listen a lot more than talk in that moment yeah lot more than talk in that moment yeah lot more than talk in that moment yeah because they need they knew that their because they need they knew that their because they need they knew that their day was coming they knew that their day was coming they knew that their day was coming they knew that their meeting was coming we were going to do meeting was coming we were going to do meeting was coming we were going to do all 100 ideas but if they began to get all 100 ideas but if they began to get all 100 ideas but if they began to get too vocal in the beginning it shut the too vocal in the beginning it shut the too vocal in the beginning it shut the whole thing down and then and so what it whole thing down and then and so what it whole thing down and then and so what it really gave me as a leader uh an really gave me as a leader uh an really gave me as a leader uh an opportunity to coach them up on how to opportunity to coach them up on how to opportunity to coach them up on how to participate in those meetings well and participate in those meetings well and participate in those meetings well and again until you like you you know with again until you like you you know with again until you like you you know with the working genius the more you know the working genius the more you know the working genius the more you know about yourself the better you're able to about yourself the better you're able to about yourself the better you're able to um you know provide uh what God has um you know provide uh what God has um you know provide uh what God has gifted uniquely to do in the spaces gifted uniquely to do in the spaces gifted uniquely to do in the spaces where you find yourself yeah yeah and I where you find yourself yeah yeah and I where you find yourself yeah yeah and I would say as a leader if you're the would say as a leader if you're the would say as a leader if you're the person who's in charge of that meeting person who's in charge of that meeting person who's in charge of that meeting it's important for you to have pretty it's important for you to have pretty it's important for you to have pretty good Clarity on where People's Natural good Clarity on where People's Natural good Clarity on where People's Natural giftings and where they lean so you know giftings and where they lean so you know giftings and where they lean so you know one of the things that came clear for us one of the things that came clear for us one of the things that came clear for us as a team at missional marketing when we as a team at missional marketing when we as a team at missional marketing when we were going through the six types of were going through the six types of were going through the six types of working genius is that our CEO Jason working genius is that our CEO Jason working genius is that our CEO Jason Hamrock is a wi he's a wonder and Hamrock is a wi he's a wonder and Hamrock is a wi he's a wonder and invention guy he just loves creating invention guy he just loves creating invention guy he just loves creating ideas dreaming up new things and he's ideas dreaming up new things and he's ideas dreaming up new things and he's just he's the kind of guy that he'll just he's the kind of guy that he'll just he's the kind of guy that he'll fill the dry erase board with creative fill the dry erase board with creative fill the dry erase board with creative ideas well our CFO is a t uh I think at ideas well our CFO is a t uh I think at ideas well our CFO is a t uh I think at the in at the other end of the widget the in at the other end of the widget the in at the other end of the widget he's the guy that likes to check off the he's the guy that likes to check off the he's the guy that likes to check off the boxes and get things done yeah so they boxes and get things done yeah so they boxes and get things done yeah so they would sit in meetings and Jason's coming would sit in meetings and Jason's coming would sit in meetings and Jason's coming up with 84 in his mind the best ideas on

up with 84 in his mind the best ideas on up with 84 in his mind the best ideas on the planet and Kevin's writing down the the planet and Kevin's writing down the the planet and Kevin's writing down the checklist of all the things he's going checklist of all the things he's going checklist of all the things he's going to have to do and he's realizing he's to have to do and he's realizing he's to have to do and he's realizing he's not going to be sleeping for the next not going to be sleeping for the next not going to be sleeping for the next six months yeah but in the middle there six months yeah but in the middle there six months yeah but in the middle there is a group of people who are discerners is a group of people who are discerners is a group of people who are discerners and people who are equipping and and people who are equipping and and people who are equipping and empowering others and those it's that empowering others and those it's that empowering others and those it's that middle group that actually helps you middle group that actually helps you middle group that actually helps you decide hey which of these 64 ideas we decide hey which of these 64 ideas we decide hey which of these 64 ideas we can only do three which of the three are can only do three which of the three are can only do three which of the three are going to actually help us accomplish going to actually help us accomplish going to actually help us accomplish what we most want to accomplish because what we most want to accomplish because what we most want to accomplish because there's 60 plus others that we just there's 60 plus others that we just there's 60 plus others that we just simply can't or aren't going to be able simply can't or aren't going to be able simply can't or aren't going to be able to do and so it minimizes the actual to do and so it minimizes the actual to do and so it minimizes the actual execution work that needs to get done execution work that needs to get done execution work that needs to get done and you know it gets you back to what and you know it gets you back to what and you know it gets you back to what you were saying just a minute ago and you were saying just a minute ago and you were saying just a minute ago and we'll talk about this in a moment about we'll talk about this in a moment about we'll talk about this in a moment about you know some of those ideas get shut you know some of those ideas get shut you know some of those ideas get shut down erased off the dry erase board and down erased off the dry erase board and down erased off the dry erase board and the people who came up with those ideas the people who came up with those ideas the people who came up with those ideas have to learn to live with that so have to learn to live with that so have to learn to live with that so that's right well that's I think it's that's right well that's I think it's that's right well that's I think it's better I think it's just better as a better I think it's just better as a better I think it's just better as a leader to have diversity in every leader to have diversity in every leader to have diversity in every conversation and so and you name the conversation and so and you name the conversation and so and you name the version of diversity it's better to have version of diversity it's better to have version of diversity it's better to have it so in this you know uh in a creative it so in this you know uh in a creative it so in this you know uh in a creative meeting is actually unhealthy to only meeting is actually unhealthy to only meeting is actually unhealthy to only have high creatives yeah uh you need have high creatives yeah uh you need have high creatives yeah uh you need other people in there because you need other people in there because you need other people in there because you need their minds you need their perspectives their minds you need their perspectives their minds you need their perspectives you need to see it the way that they see you need to see it the way that they see you need to see it the way that they see it because the more eyes we have on it it because the more eyes we have on it it because the more eyes we have on it usually the more holistically we'll make usually the more holistically we'll make usually the more holistically we'll make decisions I want to take a moment to decisions I want to take a moment to decisions I want to take a moment to thank you for tuning in to the missional thank you for tuning in to the missional thank you for tuning in to the missional marketing podcast it's always our goal marketing podcast it's always our goal marketing podcast it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage to help you as a church leader leverage to help you as a church leader leverage your Communications and digital media your Communications and digital media your Communications and digital media resources to reach more people for Jesus resources to reach more people for Jesus resources to reach more people for Jesus one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media that is through creating social media that is through creating social media content from your Sunday sermon videos

content from your Sunday sermon videos content from your Sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon Snippets from 30 to create short sermon Snippets from 30 to create short sermon Snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post them to your social media channels as a them to your social media channels as a them to your social media channels as a pastor I always loved to see my sermon pastor I always loved to see my sermon pastor I always loved to see my sermon content live on Beyond The Sundays and I content live on Beyond The Sundays and I content live on Beyond The Sundays and I know that's what you value for your know that's what you value for your know that's what you value for your sermons too sermons too sermons too we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at b Blair just shoot me an email at b Blair just shoot me an email at b Blair missionalmarketing.com I'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com I'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com I'd be glad to meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that you have once answer any questions that you have once answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in to our again thanks for tuning in to our again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview our third point that we want to our third point that we want to our third point that we want to emphasize here is no dismissing ideas emphasize here is no dismissing ideas emphasize here is no dismissing ideas but you can plus them once you expand on but you can plus them once you expand on but you can plus them once you expand on that a little bit what does that really that a little bit what does that really that a little bit what does that really mean what is plusing an idea I think mean what is plusing an idea I think mean what is plusing an idea I think this is when I was kind of when we were this is when I was kind of when we were this is when I was kind of when we were creating these rules creating these rules creating these rules um this one came out because we sat um this one came out because we sat um this one came out because we sat around and talked about it honestly and around and talked about it honestly and around and talked about it honestly and we said well if you can't kill an idea we said well if you can't kill an idea we said well if you can't kill an idea no matter how stupid it is and by the no matter how stupid it is and by the no matter how stupid it is and by the way we know we're not going to do it so way we know we're not going to do it so way we know we're not going to do it so why are we even spending time on it why are we even spending time on it why are we even spending time on it right there was always that tension and right there was always that tension and right there was always that tension and then we had to how people in the room uh then we had to how people in the room uh then we had to how people in the room uh and they're listening and trying so hard and they're listening and trying so hard and they're listening and trying so hard to bite their love and keep their mouth to bite their love and keep their mouth to bite their love and keep their mouth shut so what what can we do to give shut so what what can we do to give shut so what what can we do to give everyone space to not shut it down but everyone space to not shut it down but everyone space to not shut it down but let's also call it what it is so my

let's also call it what it is so my let's also call it what it is so my friend Jason Hodges he is uh on staff um friend Jason Hodges he is uh on staff um friend Jason Hodges he is uh on staff um in Orlando at first uh Orlando First in Orlando at first uh Orlando First in Orlando at first uh Orlando First Baptist Church Orlando now he was my Baptist Church Orlando now he was my Baptist Church Orlando now he was my production director for a decade he's a production director for a decade he's a production director for a decade he's a very close friend this was his phrase he very close friend this was his phrase he very close friend this was his phrase he came up with this that we want to plus came up with this that we want to plus came up with this that we want to plus things so he was the first time he said things so he was the first time he said things so he was the first time he said it I made a note and asked him later I it I made a note and asked him later I it I made a note and asked him later I was like we need to talk about that was like we need to talk about that was like we need to talk about that phrase more so he said okay that's an phrase more so he said okay that's an phrase more so he said okay that's an interesting idea let me plus one that interesting idea let me plus one that interesting idea let me plus one that idea what if we also idea what if we also idea what if we also and so what it did is it in a way and so what it did is it in a way and so what it did is it in a way redirected or course corrected sometimes redirected or course corrected sometimes redirected or course corrected sometimes good ideas sometimes terrible ideas good ideas sometimes terrible ideas good ideas sometimes terrible ideas without telling the person that's a without telling the person that's a without telling the person that's a terrible idea but we were able to kind terrible idea but we were able to kind terrible idea but we were able to kind of move it into a space that was either of move it into a space that was either of move it into a space that was either more achievable more practical or just more achievable more practical or just more achievable more practical or just better aligned with the series or the better aligned with the series or the better aligned with the series or the church or the mission you know what have church or the mission you know what have church or the mission you know what have you so I just love that verbiage to plus you so I just love that verbiage to plus you so I just love that verbiage to plus something not to dismiss something yeah something not to dismiss something yeah something not to dismiss something yeah you know I my early adult life I I did you know I my early adult life I I did you know I my early adult life I I did some performing and worked in theater some performing and worked in theater some performing and worked in theater and took some improv classes and did and took some improv classes and did and took some improv classes and did some improv stuff and you know one of some improv stuff and you know one of some improv stuff and you know one of the things when you're doing improv the things when you're doing improv the things when you're doing improv you're trained early on that when you're trained early on that when you're trained early on that when someone asks you a question in an someone asks you a question in an someone asks you a question in an improvised scene you don't ever want to improvised scene you don't ever want to improvised scene you don't ever want to say no if they ask you a question right say no if they ask you a question right say no if they ask you a question right you want to say yes and and then you go you want to say yes and and then you go you want to say yes and and then you go into the next thing and so when I read into the next thing and so when I read into the next thing and so when I read that on your list I was like yeah that's that on your list I was like yeah that's that on your list I was like yeah that's kind of the yes and it is that's exactly kind of the yes and it is that's exactly kind of the yes and it is that's exactly what it is yeah that's pretty cool all what it is yeah that's pretty cool all what it is yeah that's pretty cool all right no dismissing ideas but you can right no dismissing ideas but you can right no dismissing ideas but you can plus them all right we've already we've plus them all right we've already we've plus them all right we've already we've already alluded to this one a couple of already alluded to this one a couple of already alluded to this one a couple of times already and this is

times already and this is times already and this is you gotta wear your big boy pants who's you gotta wear your big boy pants who's you gotta wear your big boy pants who's got to wear their big boy pants Gavin got to wear their big boy pants Gavin got to wear their big boy pants Gavin everybody yeah everybody everybody does everybody yeah everybody everybody does everybody yeah everybody everybody does and we probably should not be too you and we probably should not be too you and we probably should not be too you know male about it you gotta wear our know male about it you gotta wear our know male about it you gotta wear our big adult pants whatever we would call big adult pants whatever we would call big adult pants whatever we would call yeah but put your grown up pants on yeah yeah but put your grown up pants on yeah yeah but put your grown up pants on yeah yeah put your grown-up pants on but um yeah put your grown-up pants on but um yeah put your grown-up pants on but um you know I I think the issue with this you know I I think the issue with this you know I I think the issue with this is when we come to creative meetings and is when we come to creative meetings and is when we come to creative meetings and I'm the worst I I I'm a creative person I'm the worst I I I'm a creative person I'm the worst I I I'm a creative person and so I have ideas that I think mine and so I have ideas that I think mine and so I have ideas that I think mine are the best and so uh because I created are the best and so uh because I created are the best and so uh because I created them of course they're the best and if them of course they're the best and if them of course they're the best and if you're in a senior leadership role you're in a senior leadership role you're in a senior leadership role especially like a senior pastor or what especially like a senior pastor or what especially like a senior pastor or what have you uh you know you're you're have you uh you know you're you're have you uh you know you're you're having a creative meeting for a series having a creative meeting for a series having a creative meeting for a series you're doing well it's your content I you're doing well it's your content I you're doing well it's your content I mean if anyone knows the direction and mean if anyone knows the direction and mean if anyone knows the direction and and where you're heading it's you so to and where you're heading it's you so to and where you're heading it's you so to walk in with a predetermined idea uh and walk in with a predetermined idea uh and walk in with a predetermined idea uh and then have everyone around the table go then have everyone around the table go then have everyone around the table go uh well can we let me plus that or okay uh well can we let me plus that or okay uh well can we let me plus that or okay that's a good idea but here's some other that's a good idea but here's some other that's a good idea but here's some other ideas we're like no we don't need other ideas we're like no we don't need other ideas we're like no we don't need other ideas I just gave you the idea right so ideas I just gave you the idea right so ideas I just gave you the idea right so I think and again I think it's harder I think and again I think it's harder I think and again I think it's harder the higher up we go to let go of our the higher up we go to let go of our the higher up we go to let go of our darling things right like when it was as darling things right like when it was as darling things right like when it was as authors we say You're Gonna Let Go your authors we say You're Gonna Let Go your authors we say You're Gonna Let Go your darling because you gotta you gotta cut darling because you gotta you gotta cut darling because you gotta you gotta cut Your Darlings so I think on one end you Your Darlings so I think on one end you Your Darlings so I think on one end you got the the more dominant people in in got the the more dominant people in in got the the more dominant people in in the in the organization they have to the in the organization they have to the in the organization they have to walk in acknowledging they have walk in acknowledging they have walk in acknowledging they have predetermined ideas that might not be predetermined ideas that might not be predetermined ideas that might not be the right ones they gotta put their big the right ones they gotta put their big the right ones they gotta put their big boy pants on and they have to be willing boy pants on and they have to be willing boy pants on and they have to be willing to admit that and listen on the other to admit that and listen on the other to admit that and listen on the other side you have people walking in with side you have people walking in with side you have people walking in with terrible ideas and they are bad ideas terrible ideas and they are bad ideas terrible ideas and they are bad ideas and we're not going to crush them we're and we're not going to crush them we're and we're not going to crush them we're not going to kill those ideas but if not going to kill those ideas but if not going to kill those ideas but if your idea doesn't make it uh or does it

your idea doesn't make it uh or does it your idea doesn't make it uh or does it become the idea you can't pout about it become the idea you can't pout about it become the idea you can't pout about it and you can't kind of take your ball and and you can't kind of take your ball and and you can't kind of take your ball and go home like we have another meeting go home like we have another meeting go home like we have another meeting next week we need you to bring your best next week we need you to bring your best next week we need you to bring your best to that meeting too and so I think to that meeting too and so I think to that meeting too and so I think especially for this for the point leader especially for this for the point leader especially for this for the point leader helping everybody recognize the value helping everybody recognize the value helping everybody recognize the value they bring even if their idea isn't they bring even if their idea isn't they bring even if their idea isn't taken so when you see someone pouting or taken so when you see someone pouting or taken so when you see someone pouting or being dismissive or disengaging the being dismissive or disengaging the being dismissive or disengaging the problem is they just didn't wear their problem is they just didn't wear their problem is they just didn't wear their big boy pants that day and it's okay to big boy pants that day and it's okay to big boy pants that day and it's okay to acknowledge that pull them aside but I acknowledge that pull them aside but I acknowledge that pull them aside but I would remind everybody the beginning of would remind everybody the beginning of would remind everybody the beginning of the meeting you know I wouldn't use this the meeting you know I wouldn't use this the meeting you know I wouldn't use this terminology necessarily but I would say terminology necessarily but I would say terminology necessarily but I would say hey we're going to probably have tons of hey we're going to probably have tons of hey we're going to probably have tons of really bad ideas of this meeting we're really bad ideas of this meeting we're really bad ideas of this meeting we're going to probably have some good ones if going to probably have some good ones if going to probably have some good ones if you think yours is good and nobody else you think yours is good and nobody else you think yours is good and nobody else agrees that's okay but put your big boy agrees that's okay but put your big boy agrees that's okay but put your big boy pants on you know we can't do it all pants on you know we can't do it all pants on you know we can't do it all anyway so I some verbias this might be anyway so I some verbias this might be anyway so I some verbias this might be less offensive but I like the I like less offensive but I like the I like less offensive but I like the I like that we're we got to be adults about that we're we got to be adults about that we're we got to be adults about this you know yeah yeah yeah I know that this you know yeah yeah yeah I know that this you know yeah yeah yeah I know that that really that makes a lot of sense that really that makes a lot of sense that really that makes a lot of sense and it really hits home and you know and it really hits home and you know and it really hits home and you know creative people do tend to be somewhat creative people do tend to be somewhat creative people do tend to be somewhat sensitive and yeah I know I am one so I sensitive and yeah I know I am one so I sensitive and yeah I know I am one so I know yeah and and you add to the fact know yeah and and you add to the fact know yeah and and you add to the fact that when I'm creative and I do come up that when I'm creative and I do come up that when I'm creative and I do come up with ideas I do sometimes grow very with ideas I do sometimes grow very with ideas I do sometimes grow very attached to my ideas of course you know attached to my ideas of course you know attached to my ideas of course you know the sign of a great collaborating team the sign of a great collaborating team the sign of a great collaborating team is one in which everybody contributes is one in which everybody contributes is one in which everybody contributes and everybody's ideas to some degree are and everybody's ideas to some degree are and everybody's ideas to some degree are are demonstrated to have some value and are demonstrated to have some value and are demonstrated to have some value and some worth but you can't do everything some worth but you can't do everything some worth but you can't do everything every time they're right are going to be

every time they're right are going to be every time they're right are going to be times where your great idea maybe it times where your great idea maybe it times where your great idea maybe it just doesn't work now and maybe it'll just doesn't work now and maybe it'll just doesn't work now and maybe it'll work later in another time in another work later in another time in another work later in another time in another place one specific thought about this place one specific thought about this place one specific thought about this you know I think brene Brown is the you know I think brene Brown is the you know I think brene Brown is the first person I heard say this and I first person I heard say this and I first person I heard say this and I don't know if she made up the term uh don't know if she made up the term uh don't know if she made up the term uh but it's psychological safety that you but it's psychological safety that you but it's psychological safety that you know if everybody can can come to the know if everybody can can come to the know if everybody can can come to the meeting with their big boy pants on we meeting with their big boy pants on we meeting with their big boy pants on we can have an unfiltered debate unfiltered can have an unfiltered debate unfiltered can have an unfiltered debate unfiltered conversation but if everybody is coming conversation but if everybody is coming conversation but if everybody is coming in in in um to the meeting with insecurity or um to the meeting with insecurity or um to the meeting with insecurity or they're struggling to separate who they they're struggling to separate who they they're struggling to separate who they are and what they do there's identity are and what they do there's identity are and what they do there's identity issues in that when we have a room full issues in that when we have a room full issues in that when we have a room full of that you can't get anywhere because of that you can't get anywhere because of that you can't get anywhere because nothing is psychologically safe and and nothing is psychologically safe and and nothing is psychologically safe and and no one feels safe so you you can't even no one feels safe so you you can't even no one feels safe so you you can't even say let me plus one that or oh what if say let me plus one that or oh what if say let me plus one that or oh what if we because then everybody gets their we because then everybody gets their we because then everybody gets their feelings hurt if even we liked 95 of it feelings hurt if even we liked 95 of it feelings hurt if even we liked 95 of it but there's five percent we want to make but there's five percent we want to make but there's five percent we want to make better so I think just walking in I mean better so I think just walking in I mean better so I think just walking in I mean you know as if we all can do this all you know as if we all can do this all you know as if we all can do this all the time but walk into these meetings as the time but walk into these meetings as the time but walk into these meetings as a facility later or as a participant a facility later or as a participant a facility later or as a participant knowing that we have to kind of bring knowing that we have to kind of bring knowing that we have to kind of bring our uh we have to bring our big big our uh we have to bring our big big our uh we have to bring our big big Point big book plans to the meeting we Point big book plans to the meeting we Point big book plans to the meeting we have to walk in and allow our identity have to walk in and allow our identity have to walk in and allow our identity to not be determined by our idea we have to not be determined by our idea we have to not be determined by our idea we have to walk in with acknowledging that our to walk in with acknowledging that our to walk in with acknowledging that our idea might not actually be the best idea idea might not actually be the best idea idea might not actually be the best idea you know and when we can all walk in you know and when we can all walk in you know and when we can all walk in that that way we can have unfiltered that that way we can have unfiltered that that way we can have unfiltered debate and then that's what elevates the debate and then that's what elevates the debate and then that's what elevates the real good ideas real good ideas real good ideas yeah no it's a very good point yeah no it's a very good point yeah no it's a very good point um in for the sake of time we're going um in for the sake of time we're going um in for the sake of time we're going to move on to the next one and I was

to move on to the next one and I was to move on to the next one and I was glad that I decided we were only going glad that I decided we were only going glad that I decided we were only going to hit five of these instead of ten and to hit five of these instead of ten and to hit five of these instead of ten and I'm just going to remind our listeners I'm just going to remind our listeners I'm just going to remind our listeners that there are 10 points in this article that there are 10 points in this article that there are 10 points in this article we're only talking about the first five we're only talking about the first five we're only talking about the first five and they've all been really good we've and they've all been really good we've and they've all been really good we've been through four this is the last one been through four this is the last one been through four this is the last one we're gonna hit in this discussion but we're gonna hit in this discussion but we're gonna hit in this discussion but there are five more that you need to go there are five more that you need to go there are five more that you need to go to Gavin's website and read okay the to Gavin's website and read okay the to Gavin's website and read okay the last one that we're going to talk about last one that we're going to talk about last one that we're going to talk about here here here some personal conviction and I have a some personal conviction and I have a some personal conviction and I have a personal story to share but I want to personal story to share but I want to personal story to share but I want to let you unpack this a little bit and let you unpack this a little bit and let you unpack this a little bit and this is pay attention to how much you this is pay attention to how much you this is pay attention to how much you listen pay attention to how much you listen pay attention to how much you listen pay attention to how much you listen yeah I mentioned this a little listen yeah I mentioned this a little listen yeah I mentioned this a little earlier but earlier but earlier but um I think so much um I think so much um I think so much um so many times we're getting meetings um so many times we're getting meetings um so many times we're getting meetings and we nod our head but all we're doing and we nod our head but all we're doing and we nod our head but all we're doing is thinking of what we're about to say is thinking of what we're about to say is thinking of what we're about to say next and we've already got it pre-loaded next and we've already got it pre-loaded next and we've already got it pre-loaded you know we're kind of like ready fire you know we're kind of like ready fire you know we're kind of like ready fire aim right well that's not active aim right well that's not active aim right well that's not active listening that's just pretending my dad listening that's just pretending my dad listening that's just pretending my dad would say constantly me as a kid are you would say constantly me as a kid are you would say constantly me as a kid are you hearing me or listening to me and what hearing me or listening to me and what hearing me or listening to me and what he meant was you're not you know you're he meant was you're not you know you're he meant was you're not you know you're you're not in your head but the words you're not in your head but the words you're not in your head but the words aren't sinking in you're not really aren't sinking in you're not really aren't sinking in you're not really listening because you already have your listening because you already have your listening because you already have your comeback you already have your defense comeback you already have your defense comeback you already have your defense you already have your idea ready to go you already have your idea ready to go you already have your idea ready to go so when we talk about listening and this so when we talk about listening and this so when we talk about listening and this could not be more important for the could not be more important for the could not be more important for the senior leader in the room whoever you senior leader in the room whoever you senior leader in the room whoever you are right senior pastor or whoever is are right senior pastor or whoever is are right senior pastor or whoever is the has the biggest job in the room uh the has the biggest job in the room uh the has the biggest job in the room uh in the meeting your words carry so much in the meeting your words carry so much in the meeting your words carry so much weight and so you I I almost feel like weight and so you I I almost feel like weight and so you I I almost feel like the higher you are in the org chart the the higher you are in the org chart the the higher you are in the org chart the more time you should spend listening in more time you should spend listening in more time you should spend listening in these meetings because your words are these meetings because your words are these meetings because your words are going to carry more weight than going to carry more weight than going to carry more weight than everybody's and you have the potential everybody's and you have the potential everybody's and you have the potential to accidentally misdirect the meeting to to accidentally misdirect the meeting to to accidentally misdirect the meeting to shut down the meeting I mean

shut down the meeting I mean shut down the meeting I mean inadvertently you can do so much more inadvertently you can do so much more inadvertently you can do so much more damage with your words because of the damage with your words because of the damage with your words because of the weight that they carry so I mean I would weight that they carry so I mean I would weight that they carry so I mean I would tell some of our more senior leaders in tell some of our more senior leaders in tell some of our more senior leaders in their meetings I'm like hey you got their meetings I'm like hey you got their meetings I'm like hey you got three comments you can make this meeting three comments you can make this meeting three comments you can make this meeting so use them well you know like if you so use them well you know like if you so use them well you know like if you use them in the first five minutes man use them in the first five minutes man use them in the first five minutes man it's gonna be a long meeting you don't it's gonna be a long meeting you don't it's gonna be a long meeting you don't be sitting and listening a lot so I just be sitting and listening a lot so I just be sitting and listening a lot so I just think it's important the the that we all think it's important the the that we all think it's important the the that we all do that but of course the higher you are do that but of course the higher you are do that but of course the higher you are in the org chart the more that you spend in the org chart the more that you spend in the org chart the more that you spend time actively listening to the people time actively listening to the people time actively listening to the people around you I've heard uh stories that around you I've heard uh stories that around you I've heard uh stories that John Maxwell brings his leaders and his John Maxwell brings his leaders and his John Maxwell brings his leaders and his group together simply to ask them group together simply to ask them group together simply to ask them questions and to listen to the answers questions and to listen to the answers questions and to listen to the answers that they give and someone like John that they give and someone like John that they give and someone like John Maxwell who is considered by some to be Maxwell who is considered by some to be Maxwell who is considered by some to be you know made probably top 10 leadership you know made probably top 10 leadership you know made probably top 10 leadership gurus on the planet in the last we're gurus on the planet in the last we're gurus on the planet in the last we're all considering him a great leader of all considering him a great leader of all considering him a great leader of nothing else yeah exactly exactly nothing else yeah exactly exactly nothing else yeah exactly exactly um for sure and that so I I said just a um for sure and that so I I said just a um for sure and that so I I said just a minute ago I had I read this and I had a minute ago I had I read this and I had a minute ago I had I read this and I had a little bit of personal conviction little bit of personal conviction little bit of personal conviction because here's the reality it's pretty because here's the reality it's pretty because here's the reality it's pretty much impossible to listen when your much impossible to listen when your much impossible to listen when your mouth is open right and mouth is open right and mouth is open right and I'm a flashback about half of my I'm a flashback about half of my I'm a flashback about half of my lifetime ago which was about 26 years lifetime ago which was about 26 years lifetime ago which was about 26 years ago I was working in the corporate world ago I was working in the corporate world ago I was working in the corporate world it was before I started working in a it was before I started working in a it was before I started working in a church and I had was advancing in the church and I had was advancing in the church and I had was advancing in the company that I was working in and and company that I was working in and and company that I was working in and and was part of a regular weekly lunch was part of a regular weekly lunch was part of a regular weekly lunch meeting where the control of our meeting where the control of our meeting where the control of our division brought all of these leaders in division brought all of these leaders in division brought all of these leaders in and I was kind of in the middle of the and I was kind of in the middle of the and I was kind of in the middle of the group and we would eat lunch together group and we would eat lunch together group and we would eat lunch together and he would ask ideas and we would talk and he would ask ideas and we would talk and he would ask ideas and we would talk about different things and to be

about different things and to be about different things and to be perfectly honest it was 26 years ago I perfectly honest it was 26 years ago I perfectly honest it was 26 years ago I can't even remember what things we were can't even remember what things we were can't even remember what things we were talking about but here's one thing I do talking about but here's one thing I do talking about but here's one thing I do remember when we walked out of a meeting remember when we walked out of a meeting remember when we walked out of a meeting one time I remember Scott pulling me one time I remember Scott pulling me one time I remember Scott pulling me aside aside aside and I remember him saying to me hey Bart and I remember him saying to me hey Bart and I remember him saying to me hey Bart the next time we have this meeting I the next time we have this meeting I the next time we have this meeting I want you to be the last one to talk in want you to be the last one to talk in want you to be the last one to talk in the meeting the meeting the meeting and I was like huh well why is that and and I was like huh well why is that and and I was like huh well why is that and he went on to say you have great ideas he went on to say you have great ideas he went on to say you have great ideas you always seem to have great insight you always seem to have great insight you always seem to have great insight and everything that you contribute in and everything that you contribute in and everything that you contribute in the conversation is very helpful he said the conversation is very helpful he said the conversation is very helpful he said because you tend to always be one of the because you tend to always be one of the because you tend to always be one of the first ones to talk first ones to talk first ones to talk I think that there's a possibility that I think that there's a possibility that I think that there's a possibility that there are other people in the room who there are other people in the room who there are other people in the room who might share some of the same ideas and might share some of the same ideas and might share some of the same ideas and some of the same insights that you do some of the same insights that you do some of the same insights that you do but you're not giving them an but you're not giving them an but you're not giving them an opportunity to share them before you do opportunity to share them before you do opportunity to share them before you do and therefore they don't know that they and therefore they don't know that they and therefore they don't know that they even are have a place to contribute to even are have a place to contribute to even are have a place to contribute to the conversation now I'll be the first the conversation now I'll be the first the conversation now I'll be the first to admit to admit to admit it's I'm still a work in progress 26 it's I'm still a work in progress 26 it's I'm still a work in progress 26 years later I I sit in a meeting and I years later I I sit in a meeting and I years later I I sit in a meeting and I just I sometimes just biting my tongue just I sometimes just biting my tongue just I sometimes just biting my tongue and sitting on my hands and I'm trying and sitting on my hands and I'm trying and sitting on my hands and I'm trying to practice active listening not just to practice active listening not just to practice active listening not just like waiting for that next thing to come like waiting for that next thing to come like waiting for that next thing to come out it's something that I have to work out it's something that I have to work out it's something that I have to work really really hard to do but I know that really really hard to do but I know that really really hard to do but I know that as I plan with other teams and when I as I plan with other teams and when I as I plan with other teams and when I bring teams together to work on things bring teams together to work on things bring teams together to work on things um it is that that one conversation that um it is that that one conversation that um it is that that one conversation that I had 26 years ago has completely I had 26 years ago has completely I had 26 years ago has completely changed my perspective on the way that I changed my perspective on the way that I changed my perspective on the way that I participate in meetings and so I participate in meetings and so I participate in meetings and so I appreciate you including that on the appreciate you including that on the appreciate you including that on the list there's the active listening piece list there's the active listening piece list there's the active listening piece but there's also the piece that's just but there's also the piece that's just but there's also the piece that's just simply not being the one who's always simply not being the one who's always simply not being the one who's always got the best idea in the room well I

got the best idea in the room well I got the best idea in the room well I mean I'm a verbal processor I'm an mean I'm a verbal processor I'm an mean I'm a verbal processor I'm an external processor and so external processor and so external processor and so I work better when I can extrovert and I I work better when I can extrovert and I I work better when I can extrovert and I can I can ideate better however it also can I can ideate better however it also can I can ideate better however it also we only have an hour meeting or a we only have an hour meeting or a we only have an hour meeting or a two-hour meeting I can't spend 45 two-hour meeting I can't spend 45 two-hour meeting I can't spend 45 minutes of it verbally processing so I minutes of it verbally processing so I minutes of it verbally processing so I just think again so much about this is just think again so much about this is just think again so much about this is self-awareness but knowing who you are self-awareness but knowing who you are self-awareness but knowing who you are coming into these these rooms there are coming into these these rooms there are coming into these these rooms there are people with brilliant ideas who are people with brilliant ideas who are people with brilliant ideas who are going to be quieter more introverted going to be quieter more introverted going to be quieter more introverted well if if the dominant external well if if the dominant external well if if the dominant external processor or the leader with the heavy processor or the leader with the heavy processor or the leader with the heavy weighted words if they're the one always weighted words if they're the one always weighted words if they're the one always talking we shut out potentially great talking we shut out potentially great talking we shut out potentially great brilliant ideas because we're not brilliant ideas because we're not brilliant ideas because we're not creating space uh by being quiet creating space uh by being quiet creating space uh by being quiet honestly and just listening yeah honestly and just listening yeah honestly and just listening yeah to finish up that story I actually about to finish up that story I actually about to finish up that story I actually about a year ago maybe a little less than a a year ago maybe a little less than a a year ago maybe a little less than a year ago nine months ago so I had lunch year ago nine months ago so I had lunch year ago nine months ago so I had lunch with that boss or dinner I was he lives with that boss or dinner I was he lives with that boss or dinner I was he lives in the Baltimore area and we got in the Baltimore area and we got in the Baltimore area and we got together for dinner and I hadn't seen together for dinner and I hadn't seen together for dinner and I hadn't seen him in probably close to 20 years and I him in probably close to 20 years and I him in probably close to 20 years and I recounted that story for him and I told recounted that story for him and I told recounted that story for him and I told him what impact that moment had made on him what impact that moment had made on him what impact that moment had made on me and he looked at me he goes I said me and he looked at me he goes I said me and he looked at me he goes I said that yeah wow I boy I was pretty smart that yeah wow I boy I was pretty smart that yeah wow I boy I was pretty smart you know he's like that was the greatest you know he's like that was the greatest you know he's like that was the greatest thing about it is that he he didn't even thing about it is that he he didn't even thing about it is that he he didn't even realize that what he was telling me was realize that what he was telling me was realize that what he was telling me was going to help me the way that it's going to help me the way that it's going to help me the way that it's helped me so exactly if you're a leader helped me so exactly if you're a leader helped me so exactly if you're a leader and you're listening to this don't and you're listening to this don't and you're listening to this don't downplay the influence that you have on downplay the influence that you have on downplay the influence that you have on others simply by telling them what they others simply by telling them what they others simply by telling them what they need to hear in a loving and caring way need to hear in a loving and caring way need to hear in a loving and caring way and then displaying it right yeah and then displaying it right yeah and then displaying it right yeah absolutely moving on all right we've absolutely moving on all right we've absolutely moving on all right we've we've covered we have covered five rules

we've covered we have covered five rules we've covered we have covered five rules to keep creative meetings creative I'm to keep creative meetings creative I'm to keep creative meetings creative I'm going to recap them here real quick going to recap them here real quick going to recap them here real quick don't kill a bad idea too soon don't kill a bad idea too soon don't kill a bad idea too soon stick to wow not how stick to wow not how stick to wow not how number three is no dismissing ideas but number three is no dismissing ideas but number three is no dismissing ideas but you can plus them you can plus them you can plus them the fourth one you gotta wear your the fourth one you gotta wear your the fourth one you gotta wear your grown-up britches yeah grown-up britches yeah grown-up britches yeah and finally yeah how are we going to and finally yeah how are we going to and finally yeah how are we going to phrase that and finally pay attention to phrase that and finally pay attention to phrase that and finally pay attention to how much you listen if you are a how much you listen if you are a how much you listen if you are a creative director or a part of the creative director or a part of the creative director or a part of the creative team in your church creative team in your church creative team in your church um these are five rules that I think um these are five rules that I think um these are five rules that I think will really serve you well if you can will really serve you well if you can will really serve you well if you can begin to implement these into your begin to implement these into your begin to implement these into your creative process and again make sure creative process and again make sure creative process and again make sure that you click over to Gavin's website that you click over to Gavin's website that you click over to Gavin's website to read the other five because you can to read the other five because you can to read the other five because you can apply those five as well I've mentioned apply those five as well I've mentioned apply those five as well I've mentioned your website several times Gavin why your website several times Gavin why your website several times Gavin why don't you share with our audience a don't you share with our audience a don't you share with our audience a little bit of how about how they can little bit of how about how they can little bit of how about how they can learn more about what you're doing in learn more about what you're doing in learn more about what you're doing in Ministry how they can connect with you Ministry how they can connect with you Ministry how they can connect with you yeah thanks so yeah just gavinadams.com yeah thanks so yeah just gavinadams.com yeah thanks so yeah just gavinadams.com that's where it's all located I've got that's where it's all located I've got that's where it's all located I've got lots of free resources courses master lots of free resources courses master lots of free resources courses master classes Consulting engagements and uh classes Consulting engagements and uh classes Consulting engagements and uh you know content content content the you know content content content the you know content content content the help leaders just like uh your listeners help leaders just like uh your listeners help leaders just like uh your listeners uh be better at their jobs and lead the uh be better at their jobs and lead the uh be better at their jobs and lead the teams around them as best they can Thank teams around them as best they can Thank teams around them as best they can Thank You Gavin a little rumor that you're You Gavin a little rumor that you're You Gavin a little rumor that you're working on a book and so one of one of working on a book and so one of one of working on a book and so one of one of these days when the moon when the earth these days when the moon when the earth these days when the moon when the earth is circled the sun yeah another time is circled the sun yeah another time is circled the sun yeah another time yeah we'll have you back on the show and yeah we'll have you back on the show and yeah we'll have you back on the show and hopefully we'll uh we'll we'll be able hopefully we'll uh we'll we'll be able hopefully we'll uh we'll we'll be able to be the beneficiary of learning uh to be the beneficiary of learning uh to be the beneficiary of learning uh some more wisdom and Leadership from you some more wisdom and Leadership from you some more wisdom and Leadership from you appreciate you hanging out with me too appreciate you hanging out with me too appreciate you hanging out with me too that's kind of you to say so thanks for

that's kind of you to say so thanks for that's kind of you to say so thanks for having me I appreciate it [Music] [Music] thank you