Practical Things to Help Your Church Grow | Rich Birch

[Music] [Music] i feel like we've moved beyond the time i feel like we've moved beyond the time i feel like we've moved beyond the time where where where we were trying to rebuild where it was we were trying to rebuild where it was we were trying to rebuild where it was like we were like wow we're comparing like we were like wow we're comparing like we were like wow we're comparing back to where where it was back to where where it was back to where where it was and we just want to get back to that and and we just want to get back to that and and we just want to get back to that and i really do want to encourage leaders i really do want to encourage leaders i really do want to encourage leaders that we need to move beyond that and that we need to move beyond that and that we need to move beyond that and just get back to building like we just just get back to building like we just just get back to building like we just need to get back get back to reaching need to get back get back to reaching need to get back get back to reaching people in our community um you know people in our community um you know people in our community um you know seeing the people that are in front of seeing the people that are in front of seeing the people that are in front of us today you know serving them caring us today you know serving them caring us today you know serving them caring for them helping them in this case for them helping them in this case for them helping them in this case helping them reach out to their friends helping them reach out to their friends helping them reach out to their friends and family motivating them and family motivating them and family motivating them rather than trying to like beg people to rather than trying to like beg people to rather than trying to like beg people to come back to our services come back to our services come back to our services welcome to the missional marketing welcome to the missional marketing welcome to the missional marketing podcast jason hamrock on the other side podcast jason hamrock on the other side podcast jason hamrock on the other side of my screen i am bart glare uh we are of my screen i am bart glare uh we are of my screen i am bart glare uh we are the co-host of this show and we are also the co-host of this show and we are also the co-host of this show and we are also coaches with missional marketing our coaches with missional marketing our coaches with missional marketing our goal is to help your church grow by goal is to help your church grow by goal is to help your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and effective communications effective communications effective communications whether you are a whether you are a whether you are a pastor an executive pastor a church pastor an executive pastor a church pastor an executive pastor a church communications professional or a communications professional or a communications professional or a volunteer in your church just trying to volunteer in your church just trying to volunteer in your church just trying to help your church get better at help your church get better at help your church get better at communications the way you use social communications the way you use social communications the way you use social media and marketing we're glad that media and marketing we're glad that media and marketing we're glad that you've tuned in and we're confident that you've tuned in and we're confident that you've tuned in and we're confident that the conversation that we're going to the conversation that we're going to the conversation that we're going to share with you today is going to help share with you today is going to help share with you today is going to help you be better at whatever it is that you you be better at whatever it is that you you be better at whatever it is that you do do do yeah today we get to talk with rich yeah today we get to talk with rich yeah today we get to talk with rich burch and many of you know who he is uh burch and many of you know who he is uh burch and many of you know who he is uh he is uns he wrote on seminary and uh he is uns he wrote on seminary and uh he is uns he wrote on seminary and uh you can go to unseminary.com you can go to unseminary.com you can go to unseminary.com now rich is uh uh lives up in canada and now rich is uh uh lives up in canada and now rich is uh uh lives up in canada and so we had a great conversation we so we had a great conversation we so we had a great conversation we actually he wrote he has a book and in actually he wrote he has a book and in actually he wrote he has a book and in this book he talks about this the this book he talks about this the this book he talks about this the flywheel effect and there's it's really flywheel effect and there's it's really flywheel effect and there's it's really really cool you're going to love it this really cool you're going to love it this really cool you're going to love it this church growth flywheel we actually break

church growth flywheel we actually break church growth flywheel we actually break that down in this conversation and that down in this conversation and that down in this conversation and there's five steps to that so i'm really there's five steps to that so i'm really there's five steps to that so i'm really excited to hear for you to hear from excited to hear for you to hear from excited to hear for you to hear from rich because we can all apply that to rich because we can all apply that to rich because we can all apply that to our ministries our ministries our ministries the truth is rich is a much more the truth is rich is a much more the truth is rich is a much more experienced and much better podcaster experienced and much better podcaster experienced and much better podcaster than we are because he's been doing this than we are because he's been doing this than we are because he's been doing this for years i think he says he has over for years i think he says he has over for years i think he says he has over 600 episodes of the unseminary podcast 600 episodes of the unseminary podcast 600 episodes of the unseminary podcast so if you haven't tuned in make sure so if you haven't tuned in make sure so if you haven't tuned in make sure that you do um and like his podcast and that you do um and like his podcast and that you do um and like his podcast and and and subscribe to his podcast and and subscribe to his podcast and and subscribe to his podcast but also subscribe to our podcast too if but also subscribe to our podcast too if but also subscribe to our podcast too if you're not subscribing to this podcast you're not subscribing to this podcast you're not subscribing to this podcast we don't want you to miss an episode so we don't want you to miss an episode so we don't want you to miss an episode so wherever you consume the content whether wherever you consume the content whether wherever you consume the content whether it's on youtube or your favorite it's on youtube or your favorite it's on youtube or your favorite podcasting app please make sure that you podcasting app please make sure that you podcasting app please make sure that you subscribe and leave us a rating or a subscribe and leave us a rating or a subscribe and leave us a rating or a review i'm really privileged to have review i'm really privileged to have review i'm really privileged to have another beautiful bald man on the another beautiful bald man on the another beautiful bald man on the podcast here's our interview with rich podcast here's our interview with rich podcast here's our interview with rich burch burch burch well jason and i are so well jason and i are so well jason and i are so excited today to uh have the mastermind excited today to uh have the mastermind excited today to uh have the mastermind of unseminary on the podcast with us of unseminary on the podcast with us of unseminary on the podcast with us today uh rich burch thanks so much for today uh rich burch thanks so much for today uh rich burch thanks so much for joining us today joining us today joining us today hey i'm so glad i'm here i'm super hey i'm so glad i'm here i'm super hey i'm so glad i'm here i'm super excited to be with you guys i feel like excited to be with you guys i feel like excited to be with you guys i feel like i finally made it i can tell my mom i've i finally made it i can tell my mom i've i finally made it i can tell my mom i've made it i'm here on this podcast i've made it i'm here on this podcast i've made it i'm here on this podcast i've reached the peak it's all downhill from reached the peak it's all downhill from reached the peak it's all downhill from here so glad to be here today here so glad to be here today here so glad to be here today congratulations yeah this conversation congratulations yeah this conversation congratulations yeah this conversation might all be downhill from here but might all be downhill from here but might all be downhill from here but that's nothing to do with you probably a that's nothing to do with you probably a that's nothing to do with you probably a lot more to do with us hey um you know lot more to do with us hey um you know lot more to do with us hey um you know what i have been listening to your what i have been listening to your what i have been listening to your podcast for years and years um meeting podcast for years and years um meeting podcast for years and years um meeting you met you in person for like 30 you met you in person for like 30 you met you in person for like 30 seconds a few years ago had an seconds a few years ago had an seconds a few years ago had an opportunity to

opportunity to opportunity to chat with you here uh you've been in my chat with you here uh you've been in my chat with you here uh you've been in my airpods as long as airpods have have airpods as long as airpods have have airpods as long as airpods have have existed uh so i feel like i know you i existed uh so i feel like i know you i existed uh so i feel like i know you i know a lot of your story but i'm sure know a lot of your story but i'm sure know a lot of your story but i'm sure that some of the folks that are that some of the folks that are that some of the folks that are listening to our podcast or watching on listening to our podcast or watching on listening to our podcast or watching on the youtube channel the youtube channel the youtube channel maybe they're not familiar with rich maybe they're not familiar with rich maybe they're not familiar with rich birch so why don't you share a little birch so why don't you share a little birch so why don't you share a little bit of your story with us bit of your story with us bit of your story with us and how you ended up doing what you're and how you ended up doing what you're and how you ended up doing what you're doing today in ministry doing today in ministry doing today in ministry oh thanks so much well i love church oh thanks so much well i love church oh thanks so much well i love church leaders i love the church i love the leaders i love the church i love the leaders i love the church i love the local church i'm like really stuck on local church i'm like really stuck on local church i'm like really stuck on that i feel like something happened to that i feel like something happened to that i feel like something happened to me developmentally where i was like me developmentally where i was like me developmentally where i was like that's the thing i'm super that's the thing i'm super that's the thing i'm super interested in um so been in in ministry interested in um so been in in ministry interested in um so been in in ministry for two and a half for two and a half for two and a half uh decades heading on on three decades uh decades heading on on three decades uh decades heading on on three decades which is crazy to say that um and have which is crazy to say that um and have which is crazy to say that um and have really been in that second seat that's really been in that second seat that's really been in that second seat that's where i've spent most of my time is as where i've spent most of my time is as where i've spent most of my time is as well all my time has been in that kind well all my time has been in that kind well all my time has been in that kind of executive pastor of executive pastor of executive pastor seat in uh the church world uh in in seat in uh the church world uh in in seat in uh the church world uh in in really three different churches that i really three different churches that i really three different churches that i didn't really as i was living all of didn't really as i was living all of didn't really as i was living all of that history i didn't really realize how that history i didn't really realize how that history i didn't really realize how unique that was we we started all the unique that was we we started all the unique that was we we started all the three churches started under a thousand three churches started under a thousand three churches started under a thousand and we ended up growing two of the three and we ended up growing two of the three and we ended up growing two of the three ended up growing to multiple thousands ended up growing to multiple thousands ended up growing to multiple thousands three four or five thousand people and three four or five thousand people and three four or five thousand people and through that whole process it was just through that whole process it was just through that whole process it was just lived life but lived life but lived life but um have really wanted to share that um have really wanted to share that um have really wanted to share that passion with other people it really goes passion with other people it really goes passion with other people it really goes back to my early days it's called on back to my early days it's called on back to my early days it's called on seminary stuff we wish they taught in seminary stuff we wish they taught in seminary stuff we wish they taught in seminary uh frankly because i've noticed seminary uh frankly because i've noticed seminary uh frankly because i've noticed over the years that there are over the years that there are over the years that there are things the things that seem to stick things the things that seem to stick things the things that seem to stick churches the things that slow us down or churches the things that slow us down or churches the things that slow us down or restrict our mission it's like we're not

restrict our mission it's like we're not restrict our mission it's like we're not talking about these things in uh in talking about these things in uh in talking about these things in uh in seminary we're not we don't train us on seminary we're not we don't train us on seminary we're not we don't train us on these things and so for the year for these things and so for the year for these things and so for the year for years we've been gathering up them as as years we've been gathering up them as as years we've been gathering up them as as um blog posts or we've done almost 600 um blog posts or we've done almost 600 um blog posts or we've done almost 600 we're closing in on 600 podcast episodes we're closing in on 600 podcast episodes we're closing in on 600 podcast episodes and so i i just love it i could talk to and so i i just love it i could talk to and so i i just love it i could talk to church leaders all day long but really church leaders all day long but really church leaders all day long but really it comes from a heart of wanting to it comes from a heart of wanting to it comes from a heart of wanting to share best practices particularly around share best practices particularly around share best practices particularly around how do we reach more people that's i how do we reach more people that's i how do we reach more people that's i would say the heartbeat behind it all would say the heartbeat behind it all would say the heartbeat behind it all is i'm concerned that under all of our is i'm concerned that under all of our is i'm concerned that under all of our collective leadership the kind of collective leadership the kind of collective leadership the kind of um degradation the erosion of the church um degradation the erosion of the church um degradation the erosion of the church i want to do anything i can to kind of i want to do anything i can to kind of i want to do anything i can to kind of push back against that and if it's push back against that and if it's push back against that and if it's simple stuff that we can share simple stuff that we can share simple stuff that we can share and be helpful that that's even better and be helpful that that's even better and be helpful that that's even better so that's that's a little bit of of who so that's that's a little bit of of who so that's that's a little bit of of who i am i am i am wow wow wow okay so so you all these i love this okay so so you all these i love this okay so so you all these i love this fact because you you spent so many years fact because you you spent so many years fact because you you spent so many years working working working in a church yes not now you get to work in a church yes not now you get to work in a church yes not now you get to work for churches yeah absolutely and we're for churches yeah absolutely and we're for churches yeah absolutely and we're kind of in the same kind of in the same kind of in the same cut because that's what we got to do cut because that's what we got to do cut because that's what we got to do and uh so talk to me a little bit and uh so talk to me a little bit and uh so talk to me a little bit because i i'm really i love this stuff because i i'm really i love this stuff because i i'm really i love this stuff talk to me about talk to me about talk to me about the church growth flywheel how that the church growth flywheel how that the church growth flywheel how that happened what is it and uh if you're happened what is it and uh if you're happened what is it and uh if you're listening in this podcast tune in right listening in this podcast tune in right listening in this podcast tune in right now now now nice so yeah a number of years ago i nice so yeah a number of years ago i nice so yeah a number of years ago i wrote a book called the church growth wrote a book called the church growth wrote a book called the church growth flywheel and then we released an online flywheel and then we released an online flywheel and then we released an online course about it and you know originally course about it and you know originally course about it and you know originally to be honest letting you know a little to be honest letting you know a little to be honest letting you know a little insider seek it i was going to call it insider seek it i was going to call it insider seek it i was going to call it how to have a bigger church in a how to have a bigger church in a how to have a bigger church in a thousand days uh but no one would buy a

thousand days uh but no one would buy a thousand days uh but no one would buy a book like that no one wants to wait a book like that no one wants to wait a book like that no one wants to wait a thousand days uh but really why the idea thousand days uh but really why the idea thousand days uh but really why the idea of a flywheel when i was a kid uh around of a flywheel when i was a kid uh around of a flywheel when i was a kid uh around the corner from my house was one of the corner from my house was one of the corner from my house was one of those we called it a merry-go-round i those we called it a merry-go-round i those we called it a merry-go-round i don't know what they could it's called don't know what they could it's called don't know what they could it's called different things in different parts of different things in different parts of different things in different parts of the country it's one of those large the country it's one of those large the country it's one of those large metal discs with like you know handles metal discs with like you know handles metal discs with like you know handles on it and you put one foot on the disc on it and you put one foot on the disc on it and you put one foot on the disc and the other one on the ground and you and the other one on the ground and you and the other one on the ground and you push it around and you know that first push it around and you know that first push it around and you know that first yeah you get dizzy you start that first yeah you get dizzy you start that first yeah you get dizzy you start that first push you got to push real real hard and push you got to push real real hard and push you got to push real real hard and but then the second push is a little but then the second push is a little but then the second push is a little less and a little less and what happens less and a little less and what happens less and a little less and what happens is is is you go from pushing hard to eventually you go from pushing hard to eventually you go from pushing hard to eventually hardly pushing and then eventually hardly pushing and then eventually hardly pushing and then eventually holding on for dear life and i found holding on for dear life and i found holding on for dear life and i found that really church growth was like that that really church growth was like that that really church growth was like that the front end of it it's a ton of work the front end of it it's a ton of work the front end of it it's a ton of work and and so a part of what we talk about and and so a part of what we talk about and and so a part of what we talk about in the church with flywheel is in the church with flywheel is in the church with flywheel is it's really repeating processes over and it's really repeating processes over and it's really repeating processes over and over and over it's leveraging the fact over and over it's leveraging the fact over and over it's leveraging the fact that sunday's always coming or the that sunday's always coming or the that sunday's always coming or the weekend's always coming there's going to weekend's always coming there's going to weekend's always coming there's going to be another easter there's going to be be another easter there's going to be be another easter there's going to be another christmas there's another another christmas there's another another christmas there's another mother's day coming how do we leverage mother's day coming how do we leverage mother's day coming how do we leverage all of those things to really attack one all of those things to really attack one all of those things to really attack one idea which is at the end of the day the idea which is at the end of the day the idea which is at the end of the day the difference between difference between difference between growing churches and stagnant churches growing churches and stagnant churches growing churches and stagnant churches is growing churches is growing churches is growing churches cultivate an invitable culture they cultivate an invitable culture they cultivate an invitable culture they cultivate uh their people's ability to cultivate uh their people's ability to cultivate uh their people's ability to invite their friends and family to be a invite their friends and family to be a invite their friends and family to be a part of the church and so it really is part of the church and so it really is part of the church and so it really is looking at a number of different looking at a number of different looking at a number of different strategies around that how do we help strategies around that how do we help strategies around that how do we help churches become more invitable how do we churches become more invitable how do we churches become more invitable how do we you know give them the right resources you know give them the right resources you know give them the right resources motivation training to keep in front of motivation training to keep in front of motivation training to keep in front of them that's that's really what it's all

them that's that's really what it's all them that's that's really what it's all about but it really gets at this idea of about but it really gets at this idea of about but it really gets at this idea of hey it's going to be hard work at the hey it's going to be hard work at the hey it's going to be hard work at the beginning it's not easy you got to spend beginning it's not easy you got to spend beginning it's not easy you got to spend a lot of time effort and energy but if a lot of time effort and energy but if a lot of time effort and energy but if we can apply focus over an extended we can apply focus over an extended we can apply focus over an extended period of time man just some amazing period of time man just some amazing period of time man just some amazing things can happen in the life of our things can happen in the life of our things can happen in the life of our church over a two three year period church over a two three year period church over a two three year period okay so okay so okay so i'm gonna lean into this um yeah we're i'm gonna lean into this um yeah we're i'm gonna lean into this um yeah we're obviously we're kind of coming out of obviously we're kind of coming out of obviously we're kind of coming out of covid but you know we all kind of knew covid but you know we all kind of knew covid but you know we all kind of knew stuff pre-covered and i think this is stuff pre-covered and i think this is stuff pre-covered and i think this is when you came out with this when you came out with this when you came out with this the the the flywheel was was 2018 so the the the flywheel was was 2018 so the the the flywheel was was 2018 so pre-covered pre-covered pre-covered coved coved coved next three years what's that look like next three years what's that look like next three years what's that look like what have you learned what do you think what have you learned what do you think what have you learned what do you think is you know trends that you are seeing is you know trends that you are seeing is you know trends that you are seeing good bad or ugly good bad or ugly good bad or ugly yeah great question i i do think we have yeah great question i i do think we have yeah great question i i do think we have moved beyond i don't know if you're moved beyond i don't know if you're moved beyond i don't know if you're seeing this with your clients but i feel seeing this with your clients but i feel seeing this with your clients but i feel like we've moved beyond the time where like we've moved beyond the time where like we've moved beyond the time where we were trying to rebuild where it was we were trying to rebuild where it was we were trying to rebuild where it was like we were like wow we're comparing like we were like wow we're comparing like we were like wow we're comparing back to where where it was back to where where it was back to where where it was and we just want to get back to that and and we just want to get back to that and and we just want to get back to that and i really do want to encourage leaders i really do want to encourage leaders i really do want to encourage leaders that we need to move beyond that and that we need to move beyond that and that we need to move beyond that and just get back to building like we just just get back to building like we just just get back to building like we just need to get back get back to reaching need to get back get back to reaching need to get back get back to reaching people in our community um you know people in our community um you know people in our community um you know seeing the people that are in front of seeing the people that are in front of seeing the people that are in front of us today you know serving them caring us today you know serving them caring us today you know serving them caring for them helping them in this case for them helping them in this case for them helping them in this case helping them reach out to their friends helping them reach out to their friends helping them reach out to their friends and family motivating them and family motivating them and family motivating them rather than trying to like beg people to rather than trying to like beg people to rather than trying to like beg people to come back to our services um but there come back to our services um but there come back to our services um but there are yeah sure there are a number of are yeah sure there are a number of are yeah sure there are a number of things one of the things things one of the things things one of the things there's five different areas we talk there's five different areas we talk there's five different areas we talk about in the book and there are two about in the book and there are two about in the book and there are two areas that i think in particular are areas that i think in particular are areas that i think in particular are probably more pressing today than they probably more pressing today than they probably more pressing today than they were a couple years ago two three years were a couple years ago two three years were a couple years ago two three years ago the the first one would be this

ago the the first one would be this ago the the first one would be this whole area of how we talk about our whole area of how we talk about our whole area of how we talk about our weekend service teaching so we talk weekend service teaching so we talk weekend service teaching so we talk about series rollouts in the in the book about series rollouts in the in the book about series rollouts in the in the book we talk about how we promote series or we talk about how we promote series or we talk about how we promote series or and i know i know that not every church and i know i know that not every church and i know i know that not every church does series i get that uh but however does series i get that uh but however does series i get that uh but however you talk about you talk about you talk about uh messages what you talk about on a uh messages what you talk about on a uh messages what you talk about on a sunday to your people so there's a study sunday to your people so there's a study sunday to your people so there's a study done over the years ago by gallup that done over the years ago by gallup that done over the years ago by gallup that 71 they went out and talked with people 71 they went out and talked with people 71 they went out and talked with people why do you attend church and they found why do you attend church and they found why do you attend church and they found that 71 of people attend church for the that 71 of people attend church for the that 71 of people attend church for the teaching they tend for what people are teaching they tend for what people are teaching they tend for what people are saying um on the weekend and the thing saying um on the weekend and the thing saying um on the weekend and the thing more more importantly uh what is what more more importantly uh what is what more more importantly uh what is what are they looking for and the first thing are they looking for and the first thing are they looking for and the first thing they're looking for is actually they're looking for is actually they're looking for is actually something that's based on scripture so something that's based on scripture so something that's based on scripture so they're not looking for like just they're not looking for like just they're not looking for like just because it rhymes it's true kind of because it rhymes it's true kind of because it rhymes it's true kind of thing they actually want it to be based thing they actually want it to be based thing they actually want it to be based on uh scripture and then the other piece on uh scripture and then the other piece on uh scripture and then the other piece of it is they're looking for teaching of it is they're looking for teaching of it is they're looking for teaching that applies to that applies to that applies to uh to their daily life so that it uh to their daily life so that it uh to their daily life so that it doesn't just happen it's not just doesn't just happen it's not just doesn't just happen it's not just important on sunday but it's super important on sunday but it's super important on sunday but it's super important on monday through saturday as important on monday through saturday as important on monday through saturday as they they walk out and why i think this they they walk out and why i think this they they walk out and why i think this is particularly true is i do think is particularly true is i do think is particularly true is i do think although i've spent most of my kind of although i've spent most of my kind of although i've spent most of my kind of career in the attractional church career in the attractional church career in the attractional church movement um i do think that um we can movement um i do think that um we can movement um i do think that um we can get lost with how important or it can get lost with how important or it can get lost with how important or it can get lost on us how important that aspect get lost on us how important that aspect get lost on us how important that aspect of what we do is we can't over of what we do is we can't over of what we do is we can't over motivate we can't over equip our people motivate we can't over equip our people motivate we can't over equip our people on kind of telegraphing where we're on kind of telegraphing where we're on kind of telegraphing where we're going next and going next and going next and uh particularly when it comes to our uh particularly when it comes to our uh particularly when it comes to our teaching piece so we want to take extra teaching piece so we want to take extra teaching piece so we want to take extra time effort and energy in this season time effort and energy in this season time effort and energy in this season around this whole area and we can talk

around this whole area and we can talk around this whole area and we can talk more about this if you want to get into more about this if you want to get into more about this if you want to get into it uh but we we can't overstate this it uh but we we can't overstate this it uh but we we can't overstate this people come because of the teaching and people come because of the teaching and people come because of the teaching and you know i think this is important when you know i think this is important when you know i think this is important when we've been through such a hurting season we've been through such a hurting season we've been through such a hurting season you know so many of our people in the in you know so many of our people in the in you know so many of our people in the in our culture there's all those statistics our culture there's all those statistics our culture there's all those statistics that show you know that people are that show you know that people are that show you know that people are looking for real answers and you know looking for real answers and you know looking for real answers and you know it's a time of great social upheaval it's a time of great social upheaval it's a time of great social upheaval there's all kinds of um there's all kinds of um there's all kinds of um you know trouble on the horizon and i you know trouble on the horizon and i you know trouble on the horizon and i think some of it actually echoes back to think some of it actually echoes back to think some of it actually echoes back to maybe the 60s and 70s where really the maybe the 60s and 70s where really the maybe the 60s and 70s where really the jesus people movement came out of there jesus people movement came out of there jesus people movement came out of there was this arguably the greatest kind of was this arguably the greatest kind of was this arguably the greatest kind of revival in recent history came out of a revival in recent history came out of a revival in recent history came out of a very similar time but it was about very similar time but it was about very similar time but it was about something it was about jesus it was something it was about jesus it was something it was about jesus it was about the difference he can make in about the difference he can make in about the difference he can make in their lives and so we can't overstate their lives and so we can't overstate their lives and so we can't overstate and i think this is particularly true in and i think this is particularly true in and i think this is particularly true in this season we can't overstate how this season we can't overstate how this season we can't overstate how important it is for us to help our important it is for us to help our important it is for us to help our people uh both know what's coming up people uh both know what's coming up people uh both know what's coming up next and why that's important to their next and why that's important to their next and why that's important to their friends and how they can invite their friends and how they can invite their friends and how they can invite their their friends um all of those pieces are their friends um all of those pieces are their friends um all of those pieces are so so critically important in this so so critically important in this so so critically important in this season for sure wow season for sure wow season for sure wow i was gonna say you know i think i i i was gonna say you know i think i i i was gonna say you know i think i i think one of the things that i think one of the things that i think one of the things that i appreciate about the whole series roll appreciate about the whole series roll appreciate about the whole series roll out concept is that it it creates out concept is that it it creates out concept is that it it creates on-ramps right the goal here is to on-ramps right the goal here is to on-ramps right the goal here is to create natural and easy on-ramps for create natural and easy on-ramps for create natural and easy on-ramps for people who are not yet connected to your people who are not yet connected to your people who are not yet connected to your church to find a way in at a logical church to find a way in at a logical church to find a way in at a logical time and you know i've worked with time and you know i've worked with time and you know i've worked with pastors in in churches that you know a pastors in in churches that you know a pastors in in churches that you know a pastor who will do three series in a pastor who will do three series in a pastor who will do three series in a year because he's gonna spend you know

year because he's gonna spend you know year because he's gonna spend you know four months in the book of philippians four months in the book of philippians four months in the book of philippians and and that's okay and and that's okay and and that's okay there's nothing there's nothing wrong there's nothing there's nothing wrong there's nothing there's nothing wrong with that uh if you're not going to use with that uh if you're not going to use with that uh if you're not going to use series as mechanisms for series as mechanisms for series as mechanisms for creating those easy on-ramps and those creating those easy on-ramps and those creating those easy on-ramps and those natural uh points of of invite and natural uh points of of invite and natural uh points of of invite and connection you're just gonna have to be connection you're just gonna have to be connection you're just gonna have to be creative to find them in other places creative to find them in other places creative to find them in other places but if your rhythm as a pastor as a but if your rhythm as a pastor as a but if your rhythm as a pastor as a preacher as a teaching team uh is to preacher as a teaching team uh is to preacher as a teaching team uh is to have you know four weeks six weeks eight have you know four weeks six weeks eight have you know four weeks six weeks eight week series i think it's really week series i think it's really week series i think it's really important that you're thinking about how important that you're thinking about how important that you're thinking about how each of those creates a unique on-ramp each of those creates a unique on-ramp each of those creates a unique on-ramp and a unique starting point for people and a unique starting point for people and a unique starting point for people who aren't yet connected to your church who aren't yet connected to your church who aren't yet connected to your church that's so true and i don't again i that's so true and i don't again i that's so true and i don't again i although we talk about series in the although we talk about series in the although we talk about series in the book and all that because i do think book and all that because i do think book and all that because i do think there's a good best practice there and there's a good best practice there and there's a good best practice there and particularly when you look at the particularly when you look at the particularly when you look at the fastest growing churches there is fastest growing churches there is fastest growing churches there is definitely a trend there towards people definitely a trend there towards people definitely a trend there towards people you know kind of organizing their you know kind of organizing their you know kind of organizing their teaching around series not exclusively teaching around series not exclusively teaching around series not exclusively but there is a lot of them that do that but there is a lot of them that do that but there is a lot of them that do that but even if you're not going to do that but even if you're not going to do that but even if you're not going to do that it's amazing how it's amazing how it's amazing how just articulating this is where we're just articulating this is where we're just articulating this is where we're going next and this is why you should going next and this is why you should going next and this is why you should invite your friends how few churches do invite your friends how few churches do invite your friends how few churches do not do that so taking your example of not do that so taking your example of not do that so taking your example of the book of philippians like that's fine the book of philippians like that's fine the book of philippians like that's fine you can march verse by verse through the you can march verse by verse through the you can march verse by verse through the book of philippians but don't make book of philippians but don't make book of philippians but don't make people guess on where you're going next people guess on where you're going next people guess on where you're going next what what are the next verses that are what what are the next verses that are what what are the next verses that are coming up where what's the kind of coming up where what's the kind of coming up where what's the kind of themes that are being covered and why is themes that are being covered and why is themes that are being covered and why is that important and i would say you need that important and i would say you need that important and i would say you need to go one step beyond that with let's to go one step beyond that with let's to go one step beyond that with let's give people a handout let's give them give people a handout let's give them give people a handout let's give them some sort of postcard that talks about some sort of postcard that talks about some sort of postcard that talks about that let's have a video that they can that let's have a video that they can that let's have a video that they can share on social media let's give them share on social media let's give them share on social media let's give them graphics that they can uh you know they

graphics that they can uh you know they graphics that they can uh you know they can email to their friends give them a can email to their friends give them a can email to their friends give them a pdf that they can uh explain to it you pdf that they can uh explain to it you pdf that they can uh explain to it you know for years i thought that actually know for years i thought that actually know for years i thought that actually quality was what people were looking for quality was what people were looking for quality was what people were looking for that when they came to services like hey that when they came to services like hey that when they came to services like hey like why did you know i i wanna i want like why did you know i i wanna i want like why did you know i i wanna i want my friends to know that it's like a my friends to know that it's like a my friends to know that it's like a quality experience i actually think it's quality experience i actually think it's quality experience i actually think it's more subtle than that i actually think more subtle than that i actually think more subtle than that i actually think predictability is a much bigger deal predictability is a much bigger deal predictability is a much bigger deal than quality when you think about the than quality when you think about the than quality when you think about the actual transaction of i'm inviting a actual transaction of i'm inviting a actual transaction of i'm inviting a friend if i invite you bart to come to friend if i invite you bart to come to friend if i invite you bart to come to my church and i describe this is what my church and i describe this is what my church and i describe this is what happens at my church you show up and happens at my church you show up and happens at my church you show up and there's there's a there's a great band there's there's a there's a great band there's there's a there's a great band and it's a five piece band normally and it's a five piece band normally and it's a five piece band normally something like that it's a rock and roll something like that it's a rock and roll something like that it's a rock and roll band it's fantastic they they have good band it's fantastic they they have good band it's fantastic they they have good music and um and then a teacher gets up music and um and then a teacher gets up music and um and then a teacher gets up and there i don't know maybe 25 minutes and there i don't know maybe 25 minutes and there i don't know maybe 25 minutes and it's always on something that and it's always on something that and it's always on something that applies to my life so i describe that to applies to my life so i describe that to applies to my life so i describe that to you bart my unchurched friend you come you bart my unchurched friend you come you bart my unchurched friend you come to that now the day you show up at my to that now the day you show up at my to that now the day you show up at my church church church let's say there's a a full orchestra let's say there's a a full orchestra let's say there's a a full orchestra there's like which is which is not which there's like which is which is not which there's like which is which is not which is arguably better music like it's is arguably better music like it's is arguably better music like it's actually way higher quality you've got actually way higher quality you've got actually way higher quality you've got 50 pieced orchestra on the stage and 50 pieced orchestra on the stage and 50 pieced orchestra on the stage and it's not my normal teacher it's insert it's not my normal teacher it's insert it's not my normal teacher it's insert whoever the best teacher is whoever you whoever the best teacher is whoever you whoever the best teacher is whoever you think that is it's like this incredible think that is it's like this incredible think that is it's like this incredible person what happens in the relationship person what happens in the relationship person what happens in the relationship between me and you as i invite you between me and you as i invite you between me and you as i invite you there's my unchurched friend says like there's my unchurched friend says like there's my unchurched friend says like what wait a second like what wait a second like what wait a second like you know you're going to say to me like you know you're going to say to me like you know you're going to say to me like you don't even know what's happening at you don't even know what's happening at you don't even know what's happening at your own church there's going to be a your own church there's going to be a your own church there's going to be a disconnect there so a part of it is disconnect there so a part of it is disconnect there so a part of it is actually just articulating forward this actually just articulating forward this actually just articulating forward this is exactly what your people can is exactly what your people can is exactly what your people can expect this is why and i'm talking too expect this is why and i'm talking too expect this is why and i'm talking too much but this is why i think one of the much but this is why i think one of the much but this is why i think one of the mechanics behind why christmas and

mechanics behind why christmas and mechanics behind why christmas and easter are such easy times for people to easter are such easy times for people to easter are such easy times for people to invite their friends because why we know invite their friends because why we know invite their friends because why we know exactly what the preacher is going to exactly what the preacher is going to exactly what the preacher is going to preach on we know exactly the message preach on we know exactly the message preach on we know exactly the message what that what's going to happen on that what that what's going to happen on that what that what's going to happen on that day we even know the songs we have a day we even know the songs we have a day we even know the songs we have a good sense of what's happening on that good sense of what's happening on that good sense of what's happening on that i'm just saying we need to have more of i'm just saying we need to have more of i'm just saying we need to have more of that kind of predictability throughout that kind of predictability throughout that kind of predictability throughout the entire year this was important the entire year this was important the entire year this was important pre-covered but it's so important now uh pre-covered but it's so important now uh pre-covered but it's so important now uh you know going back to what you just you know going back to what you just you know going back to what you just said if you're going to invite bart so said if you're going to invite bart so said if you're going to invite bart so because that trust was actually broken because that trust was actually broken because that trust was actually broken between you and your church between you and your church between you and your church you're not going to invite anybody else you're not going to invite anybody else you're not going to invite anybody else absolutely yes yeah absolutely this is absolutely yes yeah absolutely this is absolutely yes yeah absolutely this is absolutely the issue and so this is why absolutely the issue and so this is why absolutely the issue and so this is why um again i think predictability it's um again i think predictability it's um again i think predictability it's like it's it's forecasting ahead this is like it's it's forecasting ahead this is like it's it's forecasting ahead this is what we're doing as a church and series what we're doing as a church and series what we're doing as a church and series do make it easy hey for the next four do make it easy hey for the next four do make it easy hey for the next four weeks we're going to talk about weeks we're going to talk about weeks we're going to talk about relationships and you know if you know relationships and you know if you know relationships and you know if you know anyone who's in a relationship you anyone who's in a relationship you anyone who's in a relationship you should invite them like which is should invite them like which is should invite them like which is everybody right so that that's like an everybody right so that that's like an everybody right so that that's like an easy thing to do but easy thing to do but easy thing to do but it doesn't take much to uh you know to it doesn't take much to uh you know to it doesn't take much to uh you know to kind of think about other ways that you kind of think about other ways that you kind of think about other ways that you could articulate forward and a part of could articulate forward and a part of could articulate forward and a part of what you know the kind of point of the what you know the kind of point of the what you know the kind of point of the book and the course is book and the course is book and the course is what you need to do is stop thinking what you need to do is stop thinking what you need to do is stop thinking every time you come up against like in every time you come up against like in every time you come up against like in this case series or whatever you're this case series or whatever you're this case series or whatever you're talking about next stop thinking about talking about next stop thinking about talking about next stop thinking about what you're going to do and just do it what you're going to do and just do it what you're going to do and just do it every time so i rattle off a few every time so i rattle off a few every time so i rattle off a few examples an invite card i still love examples an invite card i still love examples an invite card i still love invite cards i know i'm like i'm gonna invite cards i know i'm like i'm gonna invite cards i know i'm like i'm gonna be i'm gonna die on that hill as a be i'm gonna die on that hill as a be i'm gonna die on that hill as a person i think actually in an person i think actually in an person i think actually in an increasingly digital world physical increasingly digital world physical increasingly digital world physical assets are actually worth more yeah i assets are actually worth more yeah i assets are actually worth more yeah i think there's so like so what i'm saying think there's so like so what i'm saying think there's so like so what i'm saying is like you come into on this one you is like you come into on this one you is like you come into on this one you come into a new series it's like we come into a new series it's like we come into a new series it's like we always make an invite card we always

always make an invite card we always always make an invite card we always make a video we always have the pastor make a video we always have the pastor make a video we always have the pastor does a selfie and this could be all does a selfie and this could be all does a selfie and this could be all could be five or six different things could be five or six different things could be five or six different things you do every single time let's decide on you do every single time let's decide on you do every single time let's decide on what those things are up front and then what those things are up front and then what those things are up front and then do them and the kind of point of it is do them and the kind of point of it is do them and the kind of point of it is do them for the next three years and see do them for the next three years and see do them for the next three years and see what happens like do let's let's keep on what happens like do let's let's keep on what happens like do let's let's keep on top of being predictable always casting top of being predictable always casting top of being predictable always casting it in the in the what's in it for me for it in the in the what's in it for me for it in the in the what's in it for me for my my guests the friends who i'm my my guests the friends who i'm my my guests the friends who i'm inviting always thinking about it from inviting always thinking about it from inviting always thinking about it from their perspective not from ours we're their perspective not from ours we're their perspective not from ours we're not you know not you know not you know it's not exciting that we're talking it's not exciting that we're talking it's not exciting that we're talking about the book of romans it's the book about the book of romans it's the book about the book of romans it's the book of romans is important because of these of romans is important because of these of romans is important because of these three things going on in in your friends three things going on in in your friends three things going on in in your friends and family's lives these things are and family's lives these things are and family's lives these things are happening there that's why they should happening there that's why they should happening there that's why they should come and hear us talk about the book of come and hear us talk about the book of come and hear us talk about the book of romans well i get so couple thoughts on romans well i get so couple thoughts on romans well i get so couple thoughts on that to me uh first of all you have to that to me uh first of all you have to that to me uh first of all you have to condition your congregation so don't i condition your congregation so don't i condition your congregation so don't i mean there's nothing wrong with doing mean there's nothing wrong with doing mean there's nothing wrong with doing handouts on eastern christmas handouts on eastern christmas handouts on eastern christmas but what about the right i mean they're but what about the right i mean they're but what about the right i mean they're not gonna you gotta do it all the time not gonna you gotta do it all the time not gonna you gotta do it all the time so you're training your people right so you're training your people right so you're training your people right that's yes and then i'm always telling that's yes and then i'm always telling that's yes and then i'm always telling churches churches churches especially pastors stop overthinking especially pastors stop overthinking especially pastors stop overthinking yeah like you come up with a sermon yeah like you come up with a sermon yeah like you come up with a sermon series called uncharted series called uncharted series called uncharted yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what what are you what are you unsure what what are you what are you unsure what what are you what are you unsure what are you talking about how about what are you talking about how about what are you talking about how about just a felt need of what you're how to just a felt need of what you're how to just a felt need of what you're how to how to deal with fear how to deal with fear how to deal with fear now now i know now now i know now now i know what to invite my friend to what to invite my friend to what to invite my friend to if i know somebody who's dealing with if i know somebody who's dealing with if i know somebody who's dealing with that or maybe it's grief or whatever it that or maybe it's grief or whatever it that or maybe it's grief or whatever it might be but we we come up with we sort might be but we we come up with we sort might be but we we come up with we sort of church we we try to get too cute and of church we we try to get too cute and of church we we try to get too cute and creative creative creative i think sometimes to our own i think sometimes to our own i think sometimes to our own you know demise because it does it you know demise because it does it you know demise because it does it doesn't allow us to bridge the gap for

doesn't allow us to bridge the gap for doesn't allow us to bridge the gap for our our the congregation to our our the congregation to our our the congregation to invite that friend with that card which invite that friend with that card which invite that friend with that card which i'm absolutely absolutely like so listen i'm absolutely absolutely like so listen i'm absolutely absolutely like so listen and listen i am i'm such a fan of church and listen i am i'm such a fan of church and listen i am i'm such a fan of church coms people i know there's a few of them coms people i know there's a few of them coms people i know there's a few of them listening in today um and have overseen listening in today um and have overseen listening in today um and have overseen a lot of church comps people and it's a lot of church comps people and it's a lot of church comps people and it's like i you're you're professionals in like i you're you're professionals in like i you're you're professionals in this area i feel like i play one on tv this area i feel like i play one on tv this area i feel like i play one on tv but i've said this so many times but i've said this so many times but i've said this so many times to church college people we our goal is to church college people we our goal is to church college people we our goal is to be clear not clever our goal is to be to be clear not clever our goal is to be to be clear not clever our goal is to be clear not clever i we do not want to wow clear not clever i we do not want to wow clear not clever i we do not want to wow people with wow things are so amazingly people with wow things are so amazingly people with wow things are so amazingly clever no no people have like clever no no people have like clever no no people have like four seconds to think about what we do four seconds to think about what we do four seconds to think about what we do and we've gotta narrow it down we've and we've gotta narrow it down we've and we've gotta narrow it down we've gotta dumb it down um a good friend of gotta dumb it down um a good friend of gotta dumb it down um a good friend of mine tim lucas the lead pastor at liquid mine tim lucas the lead pastor at liquid mine tim lucas the lead pastor at liquid church in new jersey worked out with you church in new jersey worked out with you church in new jersey worked out with you for years he talks about we've got to for years he talks about we've got to for years he talks about we've got to put the cookies on the bottom shelf like put the cookies on the bottom shelf like put the cookies on the bottom shelf like we we have got to make the main thing we we have got to make the main thing we we have got to make the main thing the biggest thing uh that we're talking the biggest thing uh that we're talking the biggest thing uh that we're talking about you know we can't we don't want to about you know we can't we don't want to about you know we can't we don't want to um we don't make to make people think um we don't make to make people think um we don't make to make people think and this is this was true 10 years ago and this is this was true 10 years ago and this is this was true 10 years ago it is even more true now with a it is even more true now with a it is even more true now with a decreased amount of bandwidth that decreased amount of bandwidth that decreased amount of bandwidth that people have to pay attention to stuff people have to pay attention to stuff people have to pay attention to stuff like they like they like they they are you know we're so oversaturated they are you know we're so oversaturated they are you know we're so oversaturated so over messaged so many facebook ads so over messaged so many facebook ads so over messaged so many facebook ads coming my way uh i you know it has to be coming my way uh i you know it has to be coming my way uh i you know it has to be so clear so clear so clear again not clever again not clever again not clever when we venture into the realm of clever when we venture into the realm of clever when we venture into the realm of clever man we it it it um it blunts our man we it it it um it blunts our man we it it it um it blunts our effectiveness for sure yeah yeah it effectiveness for sure yeah yeah it effectiveness for sure yeah yeah it makes me think uh i'm just gonna call makes me think uh i'm just gonna call makes me think uh i'm just gonna call him out because i he deserves to be him out because i he deserves to be him out because i he deserves to be called out uh ed young jr did a sermon called out uh ed young jr did a sermon called out uh ed young jr did a sermon series years ago called cantaloupe to

series years ago called cantaloupe to series years ago called cantaloupe to this day i can't tell you what the this day i can't tell you what the this day i can't tell you what the sermon series was about yes yes but i do sermon series was about yes yes but i do sermon series was about yes yes but i do remember do you remember having him remember do you remember having him remember do you remember having him having a big pile of cantaloupes on the having a big pile of cantaloupes on the having a big pile of cantaloupes on the stage in the chair service cantaloupe stage in the chair service cantaloupe stage in the chair service cantaloupe yeah and some of that and i know you yeah and some of that and i know you yeah and some of that and i know you guys relate you guys relate to this from guys relate you guys relate to this from guys relate you guys relate to this from an seo point of view i know that's a an seo point of view i know that's a an seo point of view i know that's a part of the kind of service that you part of the kind of service that you part of the kind of service that you provide but like provide but like provide but like man there is um there's real power in in man there is um there's real power in in man there is um there's real power in in using some of those words that people using some of those words that people using some of those words that people actually use in real life if you can get actually use in real life if you can get actually use in real life if you can get content make content that pushes in that content make content that pushes in that content make content that pushes in that direction again this is your area not direction again this is your area not direction again this is your area not mine uh man that just translates into mine uh man that just translates into mine uh man that just translates into long term that's like an asset that your long term that's like an asset that your long term that's like an asset that your church has that that's like a a tent church has that that's like a a tent church has that that's like a a tent pole that like when someone searches hey pole that like when someone searches hey pole that like when someone searches hey i'm you know looking for help with i'm you know looking for help with i'm you know looking for help with divorce i'm thinking about leaving my divorce i'm thinking about leaving my divorce i'm thinking about leaving my wife um wife um wife um wow like if you're if you actually use wow like if you're if you actually use wow like if you're if you actually use that kind of language man you would that kind of language man you would that kind of language man you would you'd start to see people who would be you'd start to see people who would be you'd start to see people who would be interested in what you uh had to say interested in what you uh had to say interested in what you uh had to say right and right and right and it goes all through that that funnel it goes all through that that funnel it goes all through that that funnel that we're talking about to try to get that we're talking about to try to get that we're talking about to try to get them to engage you know hi bart blair them to engage you know hi bart blair them to engage you know hi bart blair here i'm the producer of missional here i'm the producer of missional here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews podcast on behalf of our entire team we podcast on behalf of our entire team we podcast on behalf of our entire team we really appreciate you tuning in let me really appreciate you tuning in let me really appreciate you tuning in let me ask you a question if you're a church ask you a question if you're a church ask you a question if you're a church leader or a church communications leader or a church communications leader or a church communications professional do you know how google sees professional do you know how google sees professional do you know how google sees your church website your church website your church website in other words if people in your in other words if people in your in other words if people in your community were to google churches near community were to google churches near community were to google churches near me or best church in my city or good me or best church in my city or good me or best church in my city or good church nearby do you know where your church nearby do you know where your church nearby do you know where your church website would show up in those church website would show up in those church website would show up in those search results search results search results at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you know there's a common misunderstanding

know there's a common misunderstanding know there's a common misunderstanding that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website and we launch it that google will and we launch it that google will and we launch it that google will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will find us online but there's a bit more find us online but there's a bit more find us online but there's a bit more art and science to making sure that your art and science to making sure that your art and science to making sure that your church website shows up in the top of church website shows up in the top of church website shows up in the top of those search results and that science is those search results and that science is those search results and that science is called local seo or local search engine called local seo or local search engine called local seo or local search engine optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing local seo is one of the core services local seo is one of the core services local seo is one of the core services that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across the united states and canada the united states and canada the united states and canada we'd love to help you we'd love to help you we'd love to help you if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our if you'd like to learn more click to our website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and website at missionalmarketing.com and follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page follow the link at the top of the page that says church seo you can request a that says church seo you can request a that says church seo you can request a free local seo report to see how your free local seo report to see how your free local seo report to see how your church is showing up in google these church is showing up in google these church is showing up in google these days and you can schedule an appointment days and you can schedule an appointment days and you can schedule an appointment to talk with jason or with me or with to talk with jason or with me or with to talk with jason or with me or with one of our other digital strategists to one of our other digital strategists to one of our other digital strategists to help you decide whether or not a local help you decide whether or not a local help you decide whether or not a local seo boost is right for your church hey seo boost is right for your church hey seo boost is right for your church hey again we appreciate you tuning in to our again we appreciate you tuning in to our again we appreciate you tuning in to our podcast and we look forward to the podcast and we look forward to the podcast and we look forward to the opportunity to serving you in your opportunity to serving you in your opportunity to serving you in your church and reaching more people for church and reaching more people for church and reaching more people for jesus now back to the show you know i jesus now back to the show you know i jesus now back to the show you know i love your your five points and i'm love your your five points and i'm love your your five points and i'm looking at them here on my screen about looking at them here on my screen about looking at them here on my screen about churches that do things and to me um churches that do things and to me um churches that do things and to me um because because because church we're so church we're so church we're so busy every week we got the big show to busy every week we got the big show to busy every week we got the big show to put on and then there's bigger shows put on and then there's bigger shows put on and then there's bigger shows every now and then and yeah i think every now and then and yeah i think every now and then and yeah i think during during the the softer seasons or during during the the softer seasons or during during the the softer seasons or the those gaps where you got to be able the those gaps where you got to be able the those gaps where you got to be able to create things that are reproducible to create things that are reproducible to create things that are reproducible and and that allows us to and and that allows us to and and that allows us to get that flywheel going you you gotta get that flywheel going you you gotta get that flywheel going you you gotta you know if you just keep you know if you just keep you know if you just keep if you start pushing and you imagine if

if you start pushing and you imagine if if you start pushing and you imagine if you had to stop and to push again stop you had to stop and to push again stop you had to stop and to push again stop and then push again you're never gonna and then push again you're never gonna and then push again you're never gonna get anywhere no no absolutely so how do get anywhere no no absolutely so how do get anywhere no no absolutely so how do people get ahead you know how do great people get ahead you know how do great people get ahead you know how do great question yeah yeah we do so yeah question yeah yeah we do so yeah question yeah yeah we do so yeah absolutely you're hitting on one of the absolutely you're hitting on one of the absolutely you're hitting on one of the core ideas that we just i think we have core ideas that we just i think we have core ideas that we just i think we have to keep coming back to and again i think to keep coming back to and again i think to keep coming back to and again i think people in our people in our people in our in our world in the church world it we in our world in the church world it we in our world in the church world it we we joke about it we're like oh my we joke about it we're like oh my we joke about it we're like oh my goodness sunday is always coming right goodness sunday is always coming right goodness sunday is always coming right like the weekend is always coming it's like the weekend is always coming it's like the weekend is always coming it's relentless and so what i'm saying is relentless and so what i'm saying is relentless and so what i'm saying is friends let's use that for us like let's friends let's use that for us like let's friends let's use that for us like let's not instead of not instead of not instead of fighting that trend let's say what are fighting that trend let's say what are fighting that trend let's say what are the things that we're gonna do what do the things that we're gonna do what do the things that we're gonna do what do we do every week what do we do every we do every week what do we do every we do every week what do we do every month what do we do every quarter what month what do we do every quarter what month what do we do every quarter what do we do every year like let's let's do we do every year like let's let's do we do every year like let's let's pick those ahead of time and say we're pick those ahead of time and say we're pick those ahead of time and say we're just gonna we're not gonna debate just gonna we're not gonna debate just gonna we're not gonna debate whether we're doing them because there's whether we're doing them because there's whether we're doing them because there's a lot of sideways energy at that point a lot of sideways energy at that point a lot of sideways energy at that point where we're like ah should we do it this where we're like ah should we do it this where we're like ah should we do it this time let's just keep on top of it time time let's just keep on top of it time time let's just keep on top of it time in time out and you'd be amazed actually in time out and you'd be amazed actually in time out and you'd be amazed actually how much you can you know you can give how much you can you know you can give how much you can you know you can give to it i'll give you an example one of to it i'll give you an example one of to it i'll give you an example one of the areas um i had earlier i said the areas um i had earlier i said the areas um i had earlier i said there's two areas that i think there's two areas that i think there's two areas that i think particularly post pandemic or whatever particularly post pandemic or whatever particularly post pandemic or whatever we're in mid pandemic i don't know what we're in mid pandemic i don't know what we're in mid pandemic i don't know what season we're in who knows where we're season we're in who knows where we're season we're in who knows where we're where we are where we are where we are um um um you know the other area that i i touch you know the other area that i i touch you know the other area that i i touch on kind of as a fifth piece is this on kind of as a fifth piece is this on kind of as a fifth piece is this whole idea of internal communication and whole idea of internal communication and whole idea of internal communication and you know one of the things it really you know one of the things it really you know one of the things it really comes out of talking with leaders from comes out of talking with leaders from comes out of talking with leaders from fast growing churches and most of this fast growing churches and most of this fast growing churches and most of this book book book is about the front door right it's is about the front door right it's is about the front door right it's really about how do we create you know really about how do we create you know really about how do we create you know bigger front doors and i'm like bigger front doors and i'm like bigger front doors and i'm like unabashedly a front door guy i'm happy unabashedly a front door guy i'm happy unabashedly a front door guy i'm happy to talk about that all day long um i'm to talk about that all day long um i'm to talk about that all day long um i'm super interested in those things but

super interested in those things but super interested in those things but there is a false dichotomy in the there is a false dichotomy in the there is a false dichotomy in the leaders minds who lead the fastest leaders minds who lead the fastest leaders minds who lead the fastest growing churches where they see the growing churches where they see the growing churches where they see the front door and the back door are very front door and the back door are very front door and the back door are very closely connected they're not there's closely connected they're not there's closely connected they're not there's not a um like well we're we're just all not a um like well we're we're just all not a um like well we're we're just all about the back door we're just all about about the back door we're just all about about the back door we're just all about in you know assimilation we're just all in you know assimilation we're just all in you know assimilation we're just all about guests um they would say no we're about guests um they would say no we're about guests um they would say no we're about both of those things we're hoping about both of those things we're hoping about both of those things we're hoping that there's a bunch of people coming in that there's a bunch of people coming in that there's a bunch of people coming in through the front door that are new and through the front door that are new and through the front door that are new and at the same time we're hoping that at the same time we're hoping that at the same time we're hoping that people will get connected so the other people will get connected so the other people will get connected so the other area that i i do think that we have to area that i i do think that we have to area that i i do think that we have to spend time on and it gets back to this spend time on and it gets back to this spend time on and it gets back to this repeating thing repeating thing repeating thing is is is and this is just purely intuitive in and this is just purely intuitive in and this is just purely intuitive in talking with a lot of leaders i keep talking with a lot of leaders i keep talking with a lot of leaders i keep hearing stuff like this hey you know hearing stuff like this hey you know hearing stuff like this hey you know rich pre pandemic we used to do a rich pre pandemic we used to do a rich pre pandemic we used to do a monthly monthly monthly class for new people and you know we class for new people and you know we class for new people and you know we would have people sign up for that new would have people sign up for that new would have people sign up for that new people class and you know what 8 out of people class and you know what 8 out of people class and you know what 8 out of 10 people who signed up for that class 10 people who signed up for that class 10 people who signed up for that class would actually show up to that class but would actually show up to that class but would actually show up to that class but now now now it's like 6 out of 10 show up and you it's like 6 out of 10 show up and you it's like 6 out of 10 show up and you know this is funnel math that at every know this is funnel math that at every know this is funnel math that at every one of those steps if you lose people one of those steps if you lose people one of those steps if you lose people out of your funnel man you become way out of your funnel man you become way out of your funnel man you become way and way less effective through the whole and way less effective through the whole and way less effective through the whole thing thing thing and i do think in this season another and i do think in this season another and i do think in this season another area that we we've been coaching people area that we we've been coaching people area that we we've been coaching people on is we've got to think more about how on is we've got to think more about how on is we've got to think more about how we get more aggressive on we get more aggressive on we get more aggressive on actually connecting with people in a actually connecting with people in a actually connecting with people in a deep way as they walk through deep way as they walk through deep way as they walk through our processes from i'm a first-time our processes from i'm a first-time our processes from i'm a first-time guest to like i come to whatever that guest to like i come to whatever that guest to like i come to whatever that class is and i'll ultimately end up in class is and i'll ultimately end up in class is and i'll ultimately end up in teams and groups whatever we used to do teams and groups whatever we used to do teams and groups whatever we used to do pre-pandemic is not cutting it from a pre-pandemic is not cutting it from a pre-pandemic is not cutting it from a aggressiveness on our side it's not not

aggressiveness on our side it's not not aggressiveness on our side it's not not from a an intentionality on our side from a an intentionality on our side from a an intentionality on our side we've got to do more to keep in front of we've got to do more to keep in front of we've got to do more to keep in front of them there has been a shift on people's them there has been a shift on people's them there has been a shift on people's social expectations or maybe it's a social expectations or maybe it's a social expectations or maybe it's a shift on their their ability to kind of shift on their their ability to kind of shift on their their ability to kind of throw off social norms and they're like throw off social norms and they're like throw off social norms and they're like ah whatever i don't i'm not really ah whatever i don't i'm not really ah whatever i don't i'm not really interested anyways and so we've got to interested anyways and so we've got to interested anyways and so we've got to get more aggressive around how at each get more aggressive around how at each get more aggressive around how at each one of those steps through that and one of those steps through that and one of those steps through that and that's what this internal communication that's what this internal communication that's what this internal communication thing really talks about it's really thing really talks about it's really thing really talks about it's really about guest assimilation it's how do we about guest assimilation it's how do we about guest assimilation it's how do we move people through that kind of funnel move people through that kind of funnel move people through that kind of funnel the thing i would say post pandemic that the thing i would say post pandemic that the thing i would say post pandemic that has changed is we've got to stay on top has changed is we've got to stay on top has changed is we've got to stay on top of that how does that connect to the of that how does that connect to the of that how does that connect to the the rhythm thing is the rhythm thing is the rhythm thing is oftentimes we look at i think as church oftentimes we look at i think as church oftentimes we look at i think as church leaders we are excited by big rooms leaders we are excited by big rooms leaders we are excited by big rooms filled with lots of people but actually filled with lots of people but actually filled with lots of people but actually assimilation assimilation assimilation is about how do we help people one step is about how do we help people one step is about how do we help people one step at a time almost on a hand you know it's at a time almost on a hand you know it's at a time almost on a hand you know it's like a hand-to-hand combat sort of way like a hand-to-hand combat sort of way like a hand-to-hand combat sort of way what are we doing to get in front of what are we doing to get in front of what are we doing to get in front of them and provide traction in a way that them and provide traction in a way that them and provide traction in a way that is maybe more aggressive on our side is maybe more aggressive on our side is maybe more aggressive on our side like maybe it actually costs us more like maybe it actually costs us more like maybe it actually costs us more from a time effort energy you know from a time effort energy you know from a time effort energy you know passion point of view to connect with passion point of view to connect with passion point of view to connect with folks now than it did before but we've folks now than it did before but we've folks now than it did before but we've got to do it week in week out because got to do it week in week out because got to do it week in week out because you know what if we can connect you know what if we can connect you know what if we can connect even in a you know a reasonable size even in a you know a reasonable size even in a you know a reasonable size church if you could connect with church if you could connect with church if you could connect with eight guests a week five guests a week eight guests a week five guests a week eight guests a week five guests a week two guests whatever the number is man two guests whatever the number is man two guests whatever the number is man you do that over two or three years you do that over two or three years you do that over two or three years you're gonna see real impact you're you're gonna see real impact you're you're gonna see real impact you're gonna see real connection with uh with gonna see real connection with uh with gonna see real connection with uh with folks so we could dig more into that but folks so we could dig more into that but folks so we could dig more into that but i do think that in this season i do think that in this season i do think that in this season particularly and like i'll give another particularly and like i'll give another particularly and like i'll give another example there's a church i was talking

example there's a church i was talking example there's a church i was talking to six weeks ago to six weeks ago to six weeks ago they called me up and they said hey rich they called me up and they said hey rich they called me up and they said hey rich we're a little embarrassed by this but we're a little embarrassed by this but we're a little embarrassed by this but um um um we've been focusing on the fact that our we've been focusing on the fact that our we've been focusing on the fact that our return attendance is like it's lower return attendance is like it's lower return attendance is like it's lower than it was and like they heard me say than it was and like they heard me say than it was and like they heard me say that thing about it's not about that thing about it's not about that thing about it's not about rebuilding it's about building and rebuilding it's about building and rebuilding it's about building and they're like we're a little bit ashamed they're like we're a little bit ashamed they're like we're a little bit ashamed of this we keep focusing on the number of this we keep focusing on the number of this we keep focusing on the number the metric we keep using is what the metric we keep using is what the metric we keep using is what percentage of our people are here that percentage of our people are here that percentage of our people are here that were in 2019 and then we got looking and were in 2019 and then we got looking and were in 2019 and then we got looking and we realized we've had 1200 first-time we realized we've had 1200 first-time we realized we've had 1200 first-time guests come to our church in the last guests come to our church in the last guests come to our church in the last four months four months four months and we're like what we where are all and we're like what we where are all and we're like what we where are all those people well our our system that we those people well our our system that we those people well our our system that we were using before is not capturing those were using before is not capturing those were using before is not capturing those and frankly we're a little bit and frankly we're a little bit and frankly we're a little bit embarrassed because if we would have embarrassed because if we would have embarrassed because if we would have just kept any reasonable number of those just kept any reasonable number of those just kept any reasonable number of those man we would be growing gangbusters and man we would be growing gangbusters and man we would be growing gangbusters and influencing all new people influencing all new people influencing all new people um and so i we got talking about this um and so i we got talking about this um and so i we got talking about this i'm like yeah i think this is the thing i'm like yeah i think this is the thing i'm like yeah i think this is the thing we can't just take our old systems from we can't just take our old systems from we can't just take our old systems from a couple years ago on this front we've a couple years ago on this front we've a couple years ago on this front we've got to spend more time effort and energy got to spend more time effort and energy got to spend more time effort and energy on the connection side of it how do we on the connection side of it how do we on the connection side of it how do we actually get them plugged into the actually get them plugged into the actually get them plugged into the assimilation funnels or whatever we call assimilation funnels or whatever we call assimilation funnels or whatever we call a process pathway whatever that looks a process pathway whatever that looks a process pathway whatever that looks like to get them more plugged in and like to get them more plugged in and like to get them more plugged in and it's on a weekend week out basis it's it's on a weekend week out basis it's it's on a weekend week out basis it's not which is frankly just not that sexy not which is frankly just not that sexy not which is frankly just not that sexy it's like we got to do it every week we it's like we got to do it every week we it's like we got to do it every week we got to get on we got to get on top of it got to get on we got to get on top of it got to get on we got to get on top of it we got to crank on it every week connect we got to crank on it every week connect we got to crank on it every week connect with first-time guests send them with first-time guests send them with first-time guests send them whatever we need to send them you know whatever we need to send them you know whatever we need to send them you know there's a certain amount of it that can there's a certain amount of it that can there's a certain amount of it that can be automated but frankly there's some of be automated but frankly there's some of be automated but frankly there's some of it's not automated it's like some that it's not automated it's like some that it's not automated it's like some that you've got to actually have somebody you've got to actually have somebody you've got to actually have somebody who's thinking about it and wakes up on who's thinking about it and wakes up on who's thinking about it and wakes up on monday and thinks what are we doing to monday and thinks what are we doing to monday and thinks what are we doing to get guests who are here yesterday get guests who are here yesterday get guests who are here yesterday connected more of them connected next connected more of them connected next connected more of them connected next week um i hope that's helpful yeah it is week um i hope that's helpful yeah it is week um i hope that's helpful yeah it is okay so um it sounds like you need to

okay so um it sounds like you need to okay so um it sounds like you need to write a book write a book write a book called called called church growth flywheel 2023 church growth flywheel 2023 church growth flywheel 2023 or something or something or something 2.0 okay 2.0 okay 2.0 okay but between now and then yeah but between now and then yeah but between now and then yeah a lot of communication directors listen a lot of communication directors listen a lot of communication directors listen to this podcast and they're going to this podcast and they're going to this podcast and they're going rich you're you're speaking my language rich you're you're speaking my language rich you're you're speaking my language keep talking preacher brother sure how keep talking preacher brother sure how keep talking preacher brother sure how what would you say to them because what would you say to them because what would you say to them because you've said in the xp position that's you've said in the xp position that's you've said in the xp position that's your xp your xp your xp how does a communication director go to how does a communication director go to how does a communication director go to their boss if that's their boss and says their boss if that's their boss and says their boss if that's their boss and says we need to be think like this is stuff we need to be think like this is stuff we need to be think like this is stuff we need to be thinking about like what we need to be thinking about like what we need to be thinking about like what kind of encouragement or advice would kind of encouragement or advice would kind of encouragement or advice would you give to them to you give to them to you give to them to move the needle yeah so i i think so the move the needle yeah so i i think so the move the needle yeah so i i think so the broad advice i always give to young broad advice i always give to young broad advice i always give to young leaders when they say how do i lead my leaders when they say how do i lead my leaders when they say how do i lead my leader is you have to find out what's leader is you have to find out what's leader is you have to find out what's important to them and then you've got to important to them and then you've got to important to them and then you've got to connect the dots between whatever connect the dots between whatever connect the dots between whatever whatever you're interested in whatever you're interested in whatever you're interested in um how that actually helps their thing um how that actually helps their thing um how that actually helps their thing so they people are and this is like we so they people are and this is like we so they people are and this is like we talked about this earlier people are talked about this earlier people are talked about this earlier people are inherently selfish i i and that's not a inherently selfish i i and that's not a inherently selfish i i and that's not a value statement that's just true like we value statement that's just true like we value statement that's just true like we are are are oriented towards that and i'm not saying oriented towards that and i'm not saying oriented towards that and i'm not saying that your executive pastor is a selfish that your executive pastor is a selfish that your executive pastor is a selfish person that's just person that's just person that's just who they are they are that's just what who they are they are that's just what who they are they are that's just what we're wired and so i would say you've we're wired and so i would say you've we're wired and so i would say you've got to learn and understand what is it got to learn and understand what is it got to learn and understand what is it that's important to them you may not that's important to them you may not that's important to them you may not understand what's important to them so i understand what's important to them so i understand what's important to them so i would say first thing would be to do is would say first thing would be to do is would say first thing would be to do is go and listen to them and say like hey go and listen to them and say like hey go and listen to them and say like hey what is really important to the church what is really important to the church what is really important to the church in this coming year like how can i would in this coming year like how can i would in this coming year like how can i would love it if a comms person came to me and love it if a comms person came to me and love it if a comms person came to me and said how can i said how can i said how can i what can i do what can i do what can i do to use comms to help the church you know

to use comms to help the church you know to use comms to help the church you know be better what is it that's kind of our be better what is it that's kind of our be better what is it that's kind of our overarching goals what is what is that overarching goals what is what is that overarching goals what is what is that and then you know what if they just sat and then you know what if they just sat and then you know what if they just sat and listened for half an hour 45 minutes and listened for half an hour 45 minutes and listened for half an hour 45 minutes man you'd be amazed at what you know at man you'd be amazed at what you know at man you'd be amazed at what you know at what you can can learn now i think what you can can learn now i think what you can can learn now i think specifically in this area specifically in this area specifically in this area we think too and hopefully this is okay we think too and hopefully this is okay we think too and hopefully this is okay hopefully i might be stepping on toes hopefully i might be stepping on toes hopefully i might be stepping on toes you may not want to use this i think in you may not want to use this i think in you may not want to use this i think in church comms we get like we get way too church comms we get like we get way too church comms we get like we get way too sexy on like shiny object syndrome and sexy on like shiny object syndrome and sexy on like shiny object syndrome and like like like we i and we i and we i and and i love what you guys do and i think and i love what you guys do and i think and i love what you guys do and i think everyone should call them up and like everyone should call them up and like everyone should call them up and like use them as a vendor and like you should use them as a vendor and like you should use them as a vendor and like you should buy everything they sell but frankly a buy everything they sell but frankly a buy everything they sell but frankly a lot of what i say to church leaders is lot of what i say to church leaders is lot of what i say to church leaders is like don't think about facebook ads like don't think about facebook ads like don't think about facebook ads don't think about seo you know why don't think about seo you know why don't think about seo you know why because you're not handing out invite because you're not handing out invite because you're not handing out invite cards to people who are in your church cards to people who are in your church cards to people who are in your church today it's like you i literally just today it's like you i literally just today it's like you i literally just said this to a campus pastor who's like said this to a campus pastor who's like said this to a campus pastor who's like i don't know getting people to return i don't know getting people to return i don't know getting people to return i'm like you have i'm like you have i'm like you have everyone's mailing address of everyone everyone's mailing address of everyone everyone's mailing address of everyone who's attended your church in the last who's attended your church in the last who's attended your church in the last three years instead of trying to come up three years instead of trying to come up three years instead of trying to come up with some like fancy facebook ad with some like fancy facebook ad with some like fancy facebook ad what if you like sent a piece of lumpy what if you like sent a piece of lumpy what if you like sent a piece of lumpy mail to their house like what if you mail to their house like what if you mail to their house like what if you motivated people to motivated people to motivated people to like there's that great person in your like there's that great person in your like there's that great person in your church that makes incredible cookies church that makes incredible cookies church that makes incredible cookies what if you went to them and said what what if you went to them and said what what if you went to them and said what we're gonna do is we're going to i want we're gonna do is we're going to i want we're gonna do is we're going to i want you to make 15 you to make 15 you to make 15 dozen cookies every single week and dozen cookies every single week and dozen cookies every single week and we're going to find people in the church we're going to find people in the church we're going to find people in the church who are going to go and deliver those a who are going to go and deliver those a who are going to go and deliver those a dozen cookies to every week for the next dozen cookies to every week for the next dozen cookies to every week for the next 10 weeks that's 150 families that we're 10 weeks that's 150 families that we're 10 weeks that's 150 families that we're going to you know to do that for

going to you know to do that for going to you know to do that for i can almost guarantee you that's going i can almost guarantee you that's going i can almost guarantee you that's going to get better return than not what you to get better return than not what you to get better return than not what you guys do but what if i was to if i was to guys do but what if i was to if i was to guys do but what if i was to if i was to try to do some sort of facebook ads on try to do some sort of facebook ads on try to do some sort of facebook ads on my own you get attracted to sexy stuff my own you get attracted to sexy stuff my own you get attracted to sexy stuff yeah i know but yeah i know but yeah i know but you are so i just want to clarify one you are so i just want to clarify one you are so i just want to clarify one thing and jason does this and i do this thing and jason does this and i do this thing and jason does this and i do this every single time we sit down with the every single time we sit down with the every single time we sit down with the church and we start entertaining the church and we start entertaining the church and we start entertaining the prospect of them spending their money on prospect of them spending their money on prospect of them spending their money on digital ads digital marketing seo and digital ads digital marketing seo and digital ads digital marketing seo and some churches have lots and lots of some churches have lots and lots of some churches have lots and lots of money that they can spend in these areas money that they can spend in these areas money that they can spend in these areas the first thing that we remind them is the first thing that we remind them is the first thing that we remind them is that you can spend all of this money but that you can spend all of this money but that you can spend all of this money but the most important or the most the most important or the most the most important or the most effective marketing tool that you have effective marketing tool that you have effective marketing tool that you have in your church in your church in your church sits in the chairs every sunday morning sits in the chairs every sunday morning sits in the chairs every sunday morning the people in your church the people in your church the people in your church you you have got to leverage the people you you have got to leverage the people you you have got to leverage the people that god has brought to be a part of that god has brought to be a part of that god has brought to be a part of your church the people who know your your church the people who know your your church the people who know your church the people who love your church church the people who love your church church the people who love your church and the people who know the people in and the people who know the people in and the people who know the people in your community who need to know your your community who need to know your your community who need to know your church because they need to know jesus church because they need to know jesus church because they need to know jesus you've got to make that a priority so i you've got to make that a priority so i you've got to make that a priority so i have heard i've listened to your podcast have heard i've listened to your podcast have heard i've listened to your podcast a lot and i've heard you talk a lot and i've heard you talk a lot and i've heard you talk disparagingly at times about facebook disparagingly at times about facebook disparagingly at times about facebook ads and the shiny object syndrome but ads and the shiny object syndrome but ads and the shiny object syndrome but i'm we're with you 100 on that like it's i'm we're with you 100 on that like it's i'm we're with you 100 on that like it's it's it's them it's it's them it's it's them i see pastors and church leaders trying i see pastors and church leaders trying i see pastors and church leaders trying to find the silver bullet all the time to find the silver bullet all the time to find the silver bullet all the time and and and in reality the silver bullet is in reality the silver bullet is in reality the silver bullet is within the context of the relationships within the context of the relationships within the context of the relationships that they already have it's the people that they already have it's the people that they already have it's the people it's mobilizing people to do the work of

it's mobilizing people to do the work of it's mobilizing people to do the work of the ministry yep the ministry yep the ministry yep yeah like on that to that executive yeah like on that to that executive yeah like on that to that executive pastor question i think pastor question i think pastor question i think like i think to be honest there's a like i think to be honest there's a like i think to be honest there's a church comps people might position church comps people might position church comps people might position themselves or they feel like they're themselves or they feel like they're themselves or they feel like they're kind of worthy to the organization by kind of worthy to the organization by kind of worthy to the organization by being like the latest like i've got the being like the latest like i've got the being like the latest like i've got the latest tricks that i can give you around latest tricks that i can give you around latest tricks that i can give you around so like you want to talk about tick tock so like you want to talk about tick tock so like you want to talk about tick tock i'm good on tick tock and like you want i'm good on tick tock and like you want i'm good on tick tock and like you want to talk about whatever to talk about whatever to talk about whatever i can you know i can tell you how to do i can you know i can tell you how to do i can you know i can tell you how to do that and and i would say i actually that and and i would say i actually that and and i would say i actually think most executive pastors that's not think most executive pastors that's not think most executive pastors that's not the space they live in they're in fact the space they live in they're in fact the space they live in they're in fact they might even be suspicious of that they might even be suspicious of that they might even be suspicious of that they might be like ah i don't know like they might be like ah i don't know like they might be like ah i don't know like do we really need to do that do we really need to do that do we really need to do that um as opposed to saying like hey again i um as opposed to saying like hey again i um as opposed to saying like hey again i think it gets back to the what's think it gets back to the what's think it gets back to the what's actually important to you and and say actually important to you and and say actually important to you and and say let's understand the goals of the church let's understand the goals of the church let's understand the goals of the church and then how do we bring all these tools and then how do we bring all these tools and then how do we bring all these tools to bear on those people i also do think to bear on those people i also do think to bear on those people i also do think there's an insidious thing which again there's an insidious thing which again there's an insidious thing which again you may not use this but that's fine i you may not use this but that's fine i you may not use this but that's fine i think there's an insidious part of it think there's an insidious part of it think there's an insidious part of it where where where we think that if i i can sit behind a we think that if i i can sit behind a we think that if i i can sit behind a computer make decisions computer make decisions computer make decisions and that somehow that will translate to and that somehow that will translate to and that somehow that will translate to people arriving at our church where people arriving at our church where people arriving at our church where actually that can support actually that can support actually that can support and i do think and this is where i think and i do think and this is where i think and i do think and this is where i think what you guys do is brilliant i think what you guys do is brilliant i think what you guys do is brilliant i think for a church that that actually is for a church that that actually is for a church that that actually is cultivating an invitable culture that cultivating an invitable culture that cultivating an invitable culture that they are actually cultivating the kind they are actually cultivating the kind they are actually cultivating the kind of place where people who don't normally of place where people who don't normally of place where people who don't normally attend church will come then man that is attend church will come then man that is attend church will come then man that is like what you guys do it is like uh it like what you guys do it is like uh it like what you guys do it is like uh it is like gas on a fire it's like wow you is like gas on a fire it's like wow you is like gas on a fire it's like wow you there's something great already there's something great already there's something great already happening that's the fire and then you

happening that's the fire and then you happening that's the fire and then you guys come along and pour gas on it and guys come along and pour gas on it and guys come along and pour gas on it and man it's amazing but if there's not man it's amazing but if there's not man it's amazing but if there's not already that fire burning there it's already that fire burning there it's already that fire burning there it's you're just pouring gas over the ground you're just pouring gas over the ground you're just pouring gas over the ground it's just gonna stink it's not really it's just gonna stink it's not really it's just gonna stink it's not really actually that interesting oh sure actually that interesting oh sure actually that interesting oh sure you know yeah you know yeah you know yeah first of all you show up my house with a first of all you show up my house with a first of all you show up my house with a cookie cookie cookie yeah i'll go anywhere yeah i'll go anywhere yeah i'll go anywhere if it's a really good baked cookie if it's a really good baked cookie if it's a really good baked cookie second best would be a postcard like second best would be a postcard like second best would be a postcard like some kind of a car right yes yes did i some kind of a car right yes yes did i some kind of a car right yes yes did i see something in the mail and then i see see something in the mail and then i see see something in the mail and then i see stuff on on you know on on social media stuff on on you know on on social media stuff on on you know on on social media which i don't really do social media but which i don't really do social media but which i don't really do social media but you know you know you know yeah that's yeah that's yeah that's now you are really utilizing now you are really utilizing now you are really utilizing uh marketing to its fullest extent but uh marketing to its fullest extent but uh marketing to its fullest extent but as bart said your own people are your as bart said your own people are your as bart said your own people are your best engine you got quit best engine you got quit best engine you got quit forgetting about them right now yeah forgetting about them right now yeah forgetting about them right now yeah totally totally totally yeah absolutely and i do think again the yeah absolutely and i do think again the yeah absolutely and i do think again the the cookies example might be an extreme the cookies example might be an extreme the cookies example might be an extreme one but it it's the how do we one but it it's the how do we one but it it's the how do we leverage our existing contacts because leverage our existing contacts because leverage our existing contacts because we all know that like the we all know that like the we all know that like the the gym in town that like actually the gym in town that like actually the gym in town that like actually interestingly is is trying to do a very interestingly is is trying to do a very interestingly is is trying to do a very similar thing they're like we're trying similar thing they're like we're trying similar thing they're like we're trying to get people to show up and like do to get people to show up and like do to get people to show up and like do something that's about improvement it's something that's about improvement it's something that's about improvement it's about kind of making yourself better but about kind of making yourself better but about kind of making yourself better but it's kind of a hassle which spiritual it's kind of a hassle which spiritual it's kind of a hassle which spiritual development absolutely is and it development absolutely is and it development absolutely is and it challenges me to live in a way that i'm challenges me to live in a way that i'm challenges me to live in a way that i'm not living today i would rather eat not living today i would rather eat not living today i would rather eat mcdonald's than to eat the right food mcdonald's than to eat the right food mcdonald's than to eat the right food like there's a lot of interesting like there's a lot of interesting like there's a lot of interesting connections between those two but you connections between those two but you connections between those two but you know the the gym they're gonna like do know the the gym they're gonna like do know the the gym they're gonna like do you know some sort of distant stuff you know some sort of distant stuff you know some sort of distant stuff that is you know that is trying to reach that is you know that is trying to reach that is you know that is trying to reach me but we've got a whole bunch of people

me but we've got a whole bunch of people me but we've got a whole bunch of people who have been changed even if you're a who have been changed even if you're a who have been changed even if you're a church of 100 people you know you've got church of 100 people you know you've got church of 100 people you know you've got a whole bunch of that's a huge you know a whole bunch of that's a huge you know a whole bunch of that's a huge you know what a gym in town would pay to say i've what a gym in town would pay to say i've what a gym in town would pay to say i've got a hundred people who are willing to got a hundred people who are willing to got a hundred people who are willing to talk about the gym talk about the gym talk about the gym uh this week while they go home they uh this week while they go home they uh this week while they go home they would be like i cannot that's like worth would be like i cannot that's like worth would be like i cannot that's like worth gold to me i don't know how to how what gold to me i don't know how to how what gold to me i don't know how to how what do i do for that i would love to make do i do for that i would love to make do i do for that i would love to make that happen and so i agree we've got to that happen and so i agree we've got to that happen and so i agree we've got to make sure we take advantage of all those make sure we take advantage of all those make sure we take advantage of all those uh those things for sure yeah wow okay uh those things for sure yeah wow okay uh those things for sure yeah wow okay the danger of a podcast with three guys the danger of a podcast with three guys the danger of a podcast with three guys who have zero passion about the local who have zero passion about the local who have zero passion about the local church and zero passion about connecting church and zero passion about connecting church and zero passion about connecting people to jesus is that we can talk people to jesus is that we can talk people to jesus is that we can talk forever and probably never land the forever and probably never land the forever and probably never land the plane so sure um plane so sure um plane so sure um i'm i'm i'm obviously being very sarcastic um we obviously being very sarcastic um we obviously being very sarcastic um we should we should land the plane out of should we should land the plane out of should we should land the plane out of respect for your time and also just make respect for your time and also just make respect for your time and also just make sure that this is uh a sizable uh sure that this is uh a sizable uh sure that this is uh a sizable uh podcast that people can actually digest podcast that people can actually digest podcast that people can actually digest and process we've talked about a lot of and process we've talked about a lot of and process we've talked about a lot of different things um different things um different things um i want to just land with one one final i want to just land with one one final i want to just land with one one final question here rich as we wrap things up question here rich as we wrap things up question here rich as we wrap things up um and that is you know you have a lot um and that is you know you have a lot um and that is you know you have a lot of opportunity to have a lot of of opportunity to have a lot of of opportunity to have a lot of conversations with a lot of different conversations with a lot of different conversations with a lot of different churches both on your podcast as well as churches both on your podcast as well as churches both on your podcast as well as a lot of the coaching and the consulting a lot of the coaching and the consulting a lot of the coaching and the consulting work that you do and you're just a work that you do and you're just a work that you do and you're just a friend of many many churches and many friend of many many churches and many friend of many many churches and many church leaders um as kind of a parting church leaders um as kind of a parting church leaders um as kind of a parting shot what are the things that you're shot what are the things that you're shot what are the things that you're seeing these days in the local church seeing these days in the local church seeing these days in the local church churches that are actually beginning to churches that are actually beginning to churches that are actually beginning to figure out how to do ministry in this figure out how to do ministry in this figure out how to do ministry in this really rapidly changing culture what are really rapidly changing culture what are really rapidly changing culture what are some things that you're seeing that some things that you're seeing that some things that you're seeing that really encourage you and some things really encourage you and some things really encourage you and some things that give you hope

that's a great question that's a great question you know i would say you know i would say you know i would say that that that one of the things that one of the things that one of the things that it's gonna sound like apple pie like it's gonna sound like apple pie like it's gonna sound like apple pie like it's it's like back to just the normal it's it's like back to just the normal it's it's like back to just the normal stuff stuff stuff but but but i really don't think that there is i really don't think that there is i really don't think that there is any replacement for any replacement for any replacement for a clear vision from the leadership of a clear vision from the leadership of a clear vision from the leadership of the church the church the church about why we even exist that our church about why we even exist that our church about why we even exist that our church is the local church and this is a part is the local church and this is a part is the local church and this is a part of why i love the church the local of why i love the church the local of why i love the church the local church is the only organization in the church is the only organization in the church is the only organization in the world that exists for people who aren't world that exists for people who aren't world that exists for people who aren't here today like we our whole mission the here today like we our whole mission the here today like we our whole mission the reason why god reason why god reason why god doesn't just suck us up to heaven we doesn't just suck us up to heaven we doesn't just suck us up to heaven we become a christ follower and then we become a christ follower and then we become a christ follower and then we just just just vanish like that he could have made it vanish like that he could have made it vanish like that he could have made it that way right he could have been like that way right he could have been like that way right he could have been like you know well yeah if you want to escape you know well yeah if you want to escape you know well yeah if you want to escape you know you do this and then you just you know you do this and then you just you know you do this and then you just go back to heaven the reason why we're go back to heaven the reason why we're go back to heaven the reason why we're still here is because he wants to use us still here is because he wants to use us still here is because he wants to use us he wants to use the people in our he wants to use the people in our he wants to use the people in our churches to make a tangible difference churches to make a tangible difference churches to make a tangible difference in the in the communities that they're in the in the communities that they're in the in the communities that they're in and that is to me that still is like in and that is to me that still is like in and that is to me that still is like that's such a profound idea to me like that's such a profound idea to me like that's such a profound idea to me like how do we motivate our people to love how do we motivate our people to love how do we motivate our people to love the communities we're in and so i think the communities we're in and so i think the communities we're in and so i think the the thing that i would say to church the the thing that i would say to church the the thing that i would say to church leaders in this season particularly is leaders in this season particularly is leaders in this season particularly is how do we we fall in love with that how do we we fall in love with that how do we we fall in love with that vision how do we fall in love with what vision how do we fall in love with what vision how do we fall in love with what god's called us to do how do we fall in god's called us to do how do we fall in god's called us to do how do we fall in love with the communities god's put us love with the communities god's put us love with the communities god's put us in you know there's some story about why in you know there's some story about why in you know there's some story about why your church exists in the community that your church exists in the community that your church exists in the community that you're in you're in you're in and i would go back and try to and i would go back and try to and i would go back and try to archaeologically mine that out and say archaeologically mine that out and say archaeologically mine that out and say well why is it that god got our church

well why is it that god got our church well why is it that god got our church going what is it about this town this going what is it about this town this going what is it about this town this community this county that that he's community this county that that he's community this county that that he's placed us here and what is unique about placed us here and what is unique about placed us here and what is unique about us what is what he what he was what has us what is what he what he was what has us what is what he what he was what has he called us uniquely to do who are the he called us uniquely to do who are the he called us uniquely to do who are the people he's called us uniquely to reach people he's called us uniquely to reach people he's called us uniquely to reach because i really do think that if that's because i really do think that if that's because i really do think that if that's clear in people's minds clear in people's minds clear in people's minds the rest of it just becomes details the the rest of it just becomes details the the rest of it just becomes details the rest becomes how we work this thing out rest becomes how we work this thing out rest becomes how we work this thing out and there's it's it really isn't you're and there's it's it really isn't you're and there's it's it really isn't you're an unstoppable force at that point if an unstoppable force at that point if an unstoppable force at that point if you you know a group of people who are you you know a group of people who are you you know a group of people who are motivated by a mission to reach their motivated by a mission to reach their motivated by a mission to reach their community uh you know can make such a community uh you know can make such a community uh you know can make such a huge difference you know day in day out huge difference you know day in day out huge difference you know day in day out um you know i would say as that's always um you know i would say as that's always um you know i would say as that's always been true in the local church i think been true in the local church i think been true in the local church i think it's doubly true now i think it's doubly true now i think it's doubly true now i think there are people are asking in this there are people are asking in this there are people are asking in this season what difference does season what difference does season what difference does that place make what difference does that place make what difference does that place make what difference does that community make that community make that community make should it make any difference you know should it make any difference you know should it make any difference you know years ago i had a friend of mine we were years ago i had a friend of mine we were years ago i had a friend of mine we were i was asking this question i said you i was asking this question i said you i was asking this question i said you know know know what would be your kind of your biggest what would be your kind of your biggest what would be your kind of your biggest vision for the church vision for the church vision for the church and he said something that i was like and he said something that i was like and he said something that i was like wow that really stuck with me he said wow that really stuck with me he said wow that really stuck with me he said imagine imagine imagine if if if um when we opened a new campus like a um when we opened a new campus like a um when we opened a new campus like a new location in that community new location in that community new location in that community um if the value of the homes in that um if the value of the homes in that um if the value of the homes in that community went up community went up community went up because because because there actually was a tangible difference there actually was a tangible difference there actually was a tangible difference people knew that when our church opens people knew that when our church opens people knew that when our church opens in that community our camp when we in that community our camp when we in that community our camp when we opened a new campus in that community opened a new campus in that community opened a new campus in that community that actually the value of that that actually the value of that that actually the value of that community went up actual people were community went up actual people were community went up actual people were like i want to be in that kind of like i want to be in that kind of like i want to be in that kind of community and i was like dude that is a community and i was like dude that is a community and i was like dude that is a massive vision for what it would mean to

massive vision for what it would mean to massive vision for what it would mean to be the kind of church we want to be but be the kind of church we want to be but be the kind of church we want to be but you know what that's always stuck with you know what that's always stuck with you know what that's always stuck with me that that is the kind of thing that me that that is the kind of thing that me that that is the kind of thing that we should be thinking about what what we should be thinking about what what we should be thinking about what what difference can we make how what's god difference can we make how what's god difference can we make how what's god called us to what's the mission that called us to what's the mission that called us to what's the mission that we're called to be and how do we make we're called to be and how do we make we're called to be and how do we make the places we live in better um and how the places we live in better um and how the places we live in better um and how do we double down on that and focus on do we double down on that and focus on do we double down on that and focus on our team and people on that more um in our team and people on that more um in our team and people on that more um in this age um i think would be a great this age um i think would be a great this age um i think would be a great starting point starting point starting point that's that's that's that'd be cool i've never had a that'd be cool i've never had a that'd be cool i've never had a conversation with church with like hey conversation with church with like hey conversation with church with like hey we're gonna play on campus because we we're gonna play on campus because we we're gonna play on campus because we want the community value to go up yes i want the community value to go up yes i want the community value to go up yes i might have set a new goal for myself might have set a new goal for myself might have set a new goal for myself there we go that's fantastic rich thanks there we go that's fantastic rich thanks there we go that's fantastic rich thanks so much for sharing that and thanks for so much for sharing that and thanks for so much for sharing that and thanks for sharing your time i really appreciate sharing your time i really appreciate sharing your time i really appreciate you uh taking the time to hang out with you uh taking the time to hang out with you uh taking the time to hang out with us i know that you get a lot of probably us i know that you get a lot of probably us i know that you get a lot of probably get a lot of requests for a lot of get a lot of requests for a lot of get a lot of requests for a lot of podcasts and have an opportunity to say podcasts and have an opportunity to say podcasts and have an opportunity to say no probably more than you say yes so we no probably more than you say yes so we no probably more than you say yes so we appreciate you saying yes to us um uh as appreciate you saying yes to us um uh as appreciate you saying yes to us um uh as just kind of a wrap up here if uh any of just kind of a wrap up here if uh any of just kind of a wrap up here if uh any of our listeners or viewers uh would like our listeners or viewers uh would like our listeners or viewers uh would like to connect with you they'd like more to connect with you they'd like more to connect with you they'd like more information about what you do and how information about what you do and how information about what you do and how you do it what's the best way for them you do it what's the best way for them you do it what's the best way for them to connect with you to connect with you to connect with you well i appreciate you guys i love what well i appreciate you guys i love what well i appreciate you guys i love what you do i really do think that you know you do i really do think that you know you do i really do think that you know more leaders should lean in and you know more leaders should lean in and you know more leaders should lean in and you know avail themselves of your your services avail themselves of your your services avail themselves of your your services everything you guys provide so great but everything you guys provide so great but everything you guys provide so great but yeah if you want to learn more about us yeah if you want to learn more about us yeah if you want to learn more about us you can just go to unseminary.com it you can just go to unseminary.com it you can just go to unseminary.com it just sounds like it sounds um and we've just sounds like it sounds um and we've just sounds like it sounds um and we've got yeah blogs and another podcast and got yeah blogs and another podcast and got yeah blogs and another podcast and courses and all that but love love to courses and all that but love love to courses and all that but love love to connect but yeah cheering for you guys connect but yeah cheering for you guys connect but yeah cheering for you guys love what you do love your heart of love what you do love your heart of love what you do love your heart of trying to help church leaders for sure