Protect Your Church During a Crisis | Phil Cooke

[Music] [Music] well it's interesting I think the well it's interesting I think the well it's interesting I think the biggest mistake they make is not biggest mistake they make is not biggest mistake they make is not thinking a problem will ever happen and thinking a problem will ever happen and thinking a problem will ever happen and so they don't prepare they don't train so they don't prepare they don't train so they don't prepare they don't train their team the more people that are up their team the more people that are up their team the more people that are up to speed when a crisis happens the to speed when a crisis happens the to speed when a crisis happens the better off you are as I said earlier you better off you are as I said earlier you better off you are as I said earlier you know the more prepared you are the know the more prepared you are the know the more prepared you are the better you'll survive and on the other better you'll survive and on the other better you'll survive and on the other side and so I think if you can have a side and so I think if you can have a side and so I think if you can have a team around you that knows how to team around you that knows how to team around you that knows how to respond and what to do it makes a respond and what to do it makes a respond and what to do it makes a dramatic dramatic difference this is dramatic dramatic difference this is dramatic dramatic difference this is Season 4 Episode 34 of the missional Season 4 Episode 34 of the missional Season 4 Episode 34 of the missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair it's my privilege to welcome you to the it's my privilege to welcome you to the it's my privilege to welcome you to the 158th edition of our show if you happen 158th edition of our show if you happen 158th edition of our show if you happen to be new to the missional marketing to be new to the missional marketing to be new to the missional marketing podcast welcome and please make sure podcast welcome and please make sure podcast welcome and please make sure that you subscribe wherever you're that you subscribe wherever you're that you subscribe wherever you're listening to the show um we don't want listening to the show um we don't want listening to the show um we don't want you to miss any future episodes and if you to miss any future episodes and if you to miss any future episodes and if you happen to be a regular subscriber a you happen to be a regular subscriber a you happen to be a regular subscriber a regular listener to our show you might regular listener to our show you might regular listener to our show you might have noticed over the course of the last have noticed over the course of the last have noticed over the course of the last few weeks we've been a little less few weeks we've been a little less few weeks we've been a little less consistent about getting our Friday consistent about getting our Friday consistent about getting our Friday podcasts released Jason and I Jason podcasts released Jason and I Jason podcasts released Jason and I Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of marketing and Hamrock who is the CEO of marketing and Hamrock who is the CEO of marketing and the co-host of the show with me here he the co-host of the show with me here he the co-host of the show with me here he and I have just had a crazy time and I have just had a crazy time and I have just had a crazy time coordinating our schedules uh so that we coordinating our schedules uh so that we coordinating our schedules uh so that we can get these episodes recorded and can get these episodes recorded and can get these episodes recorded and released on a timely manner we're released on a timely manner we're released on a timely manner we're working on improving that we're going to working on improving that we're going to working on improving that we're going to be wrapping up season 4 here Midway be wrapping up season 4 here Midway be wrapping up season 4 here Midway through the summer and getting ready to through the summer and getting ready to through the summer and getting ready to launch season five as we get into the launch season five as we get into the launch season five as we get into the fall of 2024 I've got some great guests fall of 2024 I've got some great guests fall of 2024 I've got some great guests already lined up for the season for the already lined up for the season for the already lined up for the season for the new season coming up season five so if new season coming up season five so if new season coming up season five so if you haven't subscribed make sure that you haven't subscribed make sure that you haven't subscribed make sure that you do that because I don't want you to you do that because I don't want you to you do that because I don't want you to miss any of those future episodes uh miss any of those future episodes uh miss any of those future episodes uh today we have a great episode coming for today we have a great episode coming for today we have a great episode coming for you a great interview I'm going to intro you a great interview I'm going to intro you a great interview I'm going to intro that for you in just a moment but before

that for you in just a moment but before that for you in just a moment but before I do I want to give you the heads up on I do I want to give you the heads up on I do I want to give you the heads up on something that you need to know as a something that you need to know as a something that you need to know as a church Communications person as a leader church Communications person as a leader church Communications person as a leader in your church as a person who uh is in your church as a person who uh is in your church as a person who uh is responsible for your Church's marketing responsible for your Church's marketing responsible for your Church's marketing and Communications we have a great event and Communications we have a great event and Communications we have a great event coming up in September called The Church coming up in September called The Church coming up in September called The Church Communications conference that's right Communications conference that's right Communications conference that's right the church Communications Group which is the church Communications Group which is the church Communications Group which is a division of missional marketing um is a division of missional marketing um is a division of missional marketing um is putting on Live Events and you've heard putting on Live Events and you've heard putting on Live Events and you've heard us on the podcast talk about our road us on the podcast talk about our road us on the podcast talk about our road show events well we're going to have a show events well we're going to have a show events well we're going to have a two-day conference in September it's two-day conference in September it's two-day conference in September it's September 19th and 20th it'll be at September 19th and 20th it'll be at September 19th and 20th it'll be at Compass Church in the Dallas Fort Worth Compass Church in the Dallas Fort Worth Compass Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area and I want to give you a discount area and I want to give you a discount area and I want to give you a discount code are you ready you can write this code are you ready you can write this code are you ready you can write this down it's really easy the discount code down it's really easy the discount code down it's really easy the discount code is friends all lowercase that's right is friends all lowercase that's right is friends all lowercase that's right friends you're friends to Bart friends friends you're friends to Bart friends friends you're friends to Bart friends to Jason friends to the missional to Jason friends to the missional to Jason friends to the missional marketing podcast and you can get a $100 marketing podcast and you can get a $100 marketing podcast and you can get a $100 off of your registration if you use that off of your registration if you use that off of your registration if you use that discount code uh the registration I discount code uh the registration I discount code uh the registration I believe is $249 for the twod day believe is $249 for the twod day believe is $249 for the twod day conference so you can get 100 days $100 conference so you can get 100 days $100 conference so you can get 100 days $100 off of that so it would only be off of that so it would only be off of that so it would only be $149 to register make sure that you go $149 to register make sure that you go $149 to register make sure that you go to church communications.com and you to church communications.com and you to church communications.com and you look under the events and you'll see the look under the events and you'll see the look under the events and you'll see the church Communications conference we church Communications conference we church Communications conference we would love to meet you there to see you would love to meet you there to see you would love to meet you there to see you there I'll be there Jason will be there there I'll be there Jason will be there there I'll be there Jason will be there it'll be a great time we have a number it'll be a great time we have a number it'll be a great time we have a number of guests coming in to speak on very of guests coming in to speak on very of guests coming in to speak on very very relevant topics uh related to very relevant topics uh related to very relevant topics uh related to church Communications and church church Communications and church church Communications and church marketing we'll have some breakout marketing we'll have some breakout marketing we'll have some breakout sessions and also just a great sessions and also just a great sessions and also just a great opportunity for you to connect in work opportunity for you to connect in work opportunity for you to connect in work with other people that are in the with other people that are in the with other people that are in the trenches of church Communications just trenches of church Communications just trenches of church Communications just like you so make sure that you plan for

like you so make sure that you plan for like you so make sure that you plan for that again that September 19th and 20th that again that September 19th and 20th that again that September 19th and 20th in the Dallas Fort Worth area at Compass in the Dallas Fort Worth area at Compass in the Dallas Fort Worth area at Compass Christian Church all right let's get on Christian Church all right let's get on Christian Church all right let's get on to today's episode uh for the third time to today's episode uh for the third time to today's episode uh for the third time uh a three repeat guest we have Phil uh a three repeat guest we have Phil uh a three repeat guest we have Phil cook on our show now if you're new to cook on our show now if you're new to cook on our show now if you're new to our podcast you might not know who Phil our podcast you might not know who Phil our podcast you might not know who Phil cook is if you don't know who Phil cook cook is if you don't know who Phil cook cook is if you don't know who Phil cook is you are missing out on some really is you are missing out on some really is you are missing out on some really awesome stuff Phil is an author he is a awesome stuff Phil is an author he is a awesome stuff Phil is an author he is a content creator he is a film producer um content creator he is a film producer um content creator he is a film producer um the man has his hands in many many the man has his hands in many many the man has his hands in many many different things he does all kinds of different things he does all kinds of different things he does all kinds of coaching and Consulting for churches and coaching and Consulting for churches and coaching and Consulting for churches and Ministry leaders and he has recently Ministry leaders and he has recently Ministry leaders and he has recently written a book dealing with a topic that written a book dealing with a topic that written a book dealing with a topic that honestly I wish we didn't have to deal honestly I wish we didn't have to deal honestly I wish we didn't have to deal with but it is one that we have to deal with but it is one that we have to deal with but it is one that we have to deal with and it's about protecting your with and it's about protecting your with and it's about protecting your church during a crisis seems like every church during a crisis seems like every church during a crisis seems like every day these days you pop on the Internet day these days you pop on the Internet day these days you pop on the Internet or you turn on the news and there's some or you turn on the news and there's some or you turn on the news and there's some Pastor or some church that's in the news Pastor or some church that's in the news Pastor or some church that's in the news for all the wrong reasons and you know for all the wrong reasons and you know for all the wrong reasons and you know what one of the biggest mistakes that a what one of the biggest mistakes that a what one of the biggest mistakes that a church can make and I'm going to quote church can make and I'm going to quote church can make and I'm going to quote Phil cook on this one of the biggest Phil cook on this one of the biggest Phil cook on this one of the biggest mistakes that you can make as a church mistakes that you can make as a church mistakes that you can make as a church is just to assume that nothing is going is just to assume that nothing is going is just to assume that nothing is going to happen in or to your church and not to happen in or to your church and not to happen in or to your church and not have an emergency response plan to not have an emergency response plan to not have an emergency response plan to not have a strategy for how you're going to have a strategy for how you're going to have a strategy for how you're going to deal uh with communicating both deal uh with communicating both deal uh with communicating both internally and externally uh things that internally and externally uh things that internally and externally uh things that might put your put your church in the might put your put your church in the might put your put your church in the news uh the wrong things it's not the news uh the wrong things it's not the news uh the wrong things it's not the good news it's the bad news and as much good news it's the bad news and as much good news it's the bad news and as much as we don't want that to happen as we're as we don't want that to happen as we're as we don't want that to happen as we're praying against it these things do praying against it these things do praying against it these things do happen so I think that you're going to happen so I think that you're going to happen so I think that you're going to find this conversation with Phil to be find this conversation with Phil to be find this conversation with Phil to be very helpful and we want to encourage very helpful and we want to encourage very helpful and we want to encourage you to check out the book unfortunately you to check out the book unfortunately you to check out the book unfortunately at the time that we recorded the podcast at the time that we recorded the podcast at the time that we recorded the podcast episode it wasn't available Jason and I

episode it wasn't available Jason and I episode it wasn't available Jason and I did not get a preview copy but Phil goes did not get a preview copy but Phil goes did not get a preview copy but Phil goes into a lot of detail about the things into a lot of detail about the things into a lot of detail about the things that he covers in the book and the book that he covers in the book and the book that he covers in the book and the book is available now we'll include some is available now we'll include some is available now we'll include some links in the show notes so that you can links in the show notes so that you can links in the show notes so that you can check that out so that's all I've got to check that out so that's all I've got to check that out so that's all I've got to say to introduce this particular podcast say to introduce this particular podcast say to introduce this particular podcast episode I want to thank Phil for being episode I want to thank Phil for being episode I want to thank Phil for being gracious enough to be on our show again gracious enough to be on our show again gracious enough to be on our show again the time that we recorded this he and the time that we recorded this he and the time that we recorded this he and his wife were moving from California to his wife were moving from California to his wife were moving from California to Tennessee uh he was in the middle of a Tennessee uh he was in the middle of a Tennessee uh he was in the middle of a lot of stuff but he made the time for us lot of stuff but he made the time for us lot of stuff but he made the time for us and we really appreciate that so without and we really appreciate that so without and we really appreciate that so without any further delay uh here's Jason any further delay uh here's Jason any further delay uh here's Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing and our podcast interview with Phil and our podcast interview with Phil and our podcast interview with Phil cook well Phil welcome back to the show cook well Phil welcome back to the show cook well Phil welcome back to the show H how have you been my friend I've been H how have you been my friend I've been H how have you been my friend I've been very very well it's the thrilled to be very very well it's the thrilled to be very very well it's the thrilled to be back I went to your website the other back I went to your website the other back I went to your website the other day and noticed this is my third time so day and noticed this is my third time so day and noticed this is my third time so I hope I'm not over you know I hope I'm not over you know I hope I'm not over you know overexposing myself on your on your overexposing myself on your on your overexposing myself on your on your podcast no uh I'll speak on behalf of podcast no uh I'll speak on behalf of podcast no uh I'll speak on behalf of Bart and myself and everybody who Bart and myself and everybody who Bart and myself and everybody who listens we love having you on the show listens we love having you on the show listens we love having you on the show because every time you're on we learn because every time you're on we learn because every time you're on we learn something something something new you're very very kind I appreciate new you're very very kind I appreciate new you're very very kind I appreciate it yeah yeah and you're going through it yeah yeah and you're going through it yeah yeah and you're going through some transitions kind of picking up and some transitions kind of picking up and some transitions kind of picking up and moving and just a lot going on in your moving and just a lot going on in your moving and just a lot going on in your world huh yeah we're picking up and world huh yeah we're picking up and world huh yeah we're picking up and moving we're leaving from California moving we're leaving from California moving we're leaving from California moving to to Franklin Tennessee moving to to Franklin Tennessee moving to to Franklin Tennessee Nashville and um following the grandkids Nashville and um following the grandkids Nashville and um following the grandkids you just do that when you get to a you just do that when you get to a you just do that when you get to a certain point in your life and doing certain point in your life and doing certain point in your life and doing what I do with producing programming and what I do with producing programming and what I do with producing programming and Consulting with churches and Ministry Consulting with churches and Ministry Consulting with churches and Ministry organizations I can do that from organizations I can do that from organizations I can do that from anywhere and so actually it'll put me anywhere and so actually it'll put me anywhere and so actually it'll put me closer to a lot of the clients we work closer to a lot of the clients we work closer to a lot of the clients we work with so I'm excited about it and we're with so I'm excited about it and we're with so I'm excited about it and we're looking we're actually looking forward looking we're actually looking forward looking we're actually looking forward to it I'll miss a lot of people in LA

to it I'll miss a lot of people in LA to it I'll miss a lot of people in LA but we'll be coming back from time to but we'll be coming back from time to but we'll be coming back from time to time oh yeah yeah well they're gonna be time oh yeah yeah well they're gonna be time oh yeah yeah well they're gonna be blessed to have you out there so yeah blessed to have you out there so yeah blessed to have you out there so yeah it'll be fun be pumped okay all right so it'll be fun be pumped okay all right so it'll be fun be pumped okay all right so I'm really excited to really just dive I'm really excited to really just dive I'm really excited to really just dive into our topic today and that is you you into our topic today and that is you you into our topic today and that is you you wrote another book I wrote another book wrote another book I wrote another book wrote another book I wrote another book another yeah talk to us about this new another yeah talk to us about this new another yeah talk to us about this new book you wrote well I wrote a book book you wrote well I wrote a book book you wrote well I wrote a book called church on trial how to protect called church on trial how to protect called church on trial how to protect your congregation your reputation your your congregation your reputation your your congregation your reputation your mission and reputation during a crisis mission and reputation during a crisis mission and reputation during a crisis and know a lot of people don't know that and know a lot of people don't know that and know a lot of people don't know that being a media producer all these years being a media producer all these years being a media producer all these years early in my career I started getting early in my career I started getting early in my career I started getting calls from churches that weren't sure calls from churches that weren't sure calls from churches that weren't sure how to handle a crisis now I'm not a how to handle a crisis now I'm not a how to handle a crisis now I'm not a therapist I'm not an attorney but there therapist I'm not an attorney but there therapist I'm not an attorney but there are a lot of communication issues are a lot of communication issues are a lot of communication issues related to a crisis you know how do we related to a crisis you know how do we related to a crisis you know how do we tell this story who do we tell it to uh tell this story who do we tell it to uh tell this story who do we tell it to uh do we hide anything do we hold back all do we hide anything do we hold back all do we hide anything do we hold back all these a million questions and I would go these a million questions and I would go these a million questions and I would go in and help them write a public in and help them write a public in and help them write a public statement or a communication you know statement or a communication you know statement or a communication you know statement how do we tell the statement how do we tell the statement how do we tell the congregation all these things and I've congregation all these things and I've congregation all these things and I've been involved in so many difficult been involved in so many difficult been involved in so many difficult challenging and frankly weird situations challenging and frankly weird situations challenging and frankly weird situations over the years that I thought you know over the years that I thought you know over the years that I thought you know seminaries and Bible colleges don't seminaries and Bible colleges don't seminaries and Bible colleges don't teach communication you to pastors and teach communication you to pastors and teach communication you to pastors and Ministry leaders and I thought they need Ministry leaders and I thought they need Ministry leaders and I thought they need a handbook some kind of a reference that a handbook some kind of a reference that a handbook some kind of a reference that they could have on their desk when they could have on their desk when they could have on their desk when something goes wrong because man as you something goes wrong because man as you something goes wrong because man as you know you see in the headlines almost know you see in the headlines almost know you see in the headlines almost every day some Pastor stepping down every day some Pastor stepping down every day some Pastor stepping down because of this or youth leaders exposed because of this or youth leaders exposed because of this or youth leaders exposed with you know abusing children or with you know abusing children or with you know abusing children or something weird or there's embezzlement something weird or there's embezzlement something weird or there's embezzlement issues there's also outside forces you issues there's also outside forces you issues there's also outside forces you know a church is sued or somebody know a church is sued or somebody know a church is sued or somebody complains about a church on social media

complains about a church on social media complains about a church on social media a million things that could happen and a million things that could happen and a million things that could happen and so I just wanted to put a book together so I just wanted to put a book together so I just wanted to put a book together that would give them a reference about that would give them a reference about that would give them a reference about what to what what to do when a crisis what to what what to do when a crisis what to what what to do when a crisis happens you know research tons of happens you know research tons of happens you know research tons of Research indicates that a business Research indicates that a business Research indicates that a business Church nonprofit always do better in a Church nonprofit always do better in a Church nonprofit always do better in a crisis if they're prepared so I really crisis if they're prepared so I really crisis if they're prepared so I really want to help churches prepare well yeah want to help churches prepare well yeah want to help churches prepare well yeah I I always say it's not if it's just a I I always say it's not if it's just a I I always say it's not if it's just a matter of win totally you know what matter of win totally you know what matter of win totally you know what social media has made it so easy to say social media has made it so easy to say social media has made it so easy to say something inappropriate um that a lot of something inappropriate um that a lot of something inappropriate um that a lot of people see do something inappropriate people see do something inappropriate people see do something inappropriate that a lot of people see and in a text that a lot of people see and in a text that a lot of people see and in a text message email world word travels fast message email world word travels fast message email world word travels fast and it's just really hard to stop the and it's just really hard to stop the and it's just really hard to stop the momentum once it happens so you're momentum once it happens so you're momentum once it happens so you're exactly exactly right yeah so so would exactly exactly right yeah so so would exactly exactly right yeah so so would you say this book which I I love I mean you say this book which I I love I mean you say this book which I I love I mean unfortunately I I love the fact that unfortunately I I love the fact that unfortunately I I love the fact that you're diving into this topic you're diving into this topic you're diving into this topic unfortunately we need unfortunately we need unfortunately we need it but it but it but it's just a reality um so so would you it's just a reality um so so would you it's just a reality um so so would you say this book is written for uh say this book is written for uh say this book is written for uh Executives or comms or yes now I I Executives or comms or yes now I I Executives or comms or yes now I I really wrote this for pastors senior really wrote this for pastors senior really wrote this for pastors senior leaders at a church uh Elders or board leaders at a church uh Elders or board leaders at a church uh Elders or board direct board of directors at a church I direct board of directors at a church I direct board of directors at a church I mean mostly it's for churches Ministries mean mostly it's for churches Ministries mean mostly it's for churches Ministries nonprofit organizations businesses may nonprofit organizations businesses may nonprofit organizations businesses may have a little different approach have a little different approach have a little different approach sometimes to these things but for sometimes to these things but for sometimes to these things but for churches and Ministries where you know churches and Ministries where you know churches and Ministries where you know people look differently at a spiritual people look differently at a spiritual people look differently at a spiritual or organization and they rightly should or organization and they rightly should or organization and they rightly should the standard should be high and so when the standard should be high and so when the standard should be high and so when a crisis happens there what do you do a crisis happens there what do you do a crisis happens there what do you do and I often tell people that you know an and I often tell people that you know an and I often tell people that you know an attorney should be your first call but

attorney should be your first call but attorney should be your first call but and they're going to be you know and they're going to be you know and they're going to be you know incredibly helpful but it's not an incredibly helpful but it's not an incredibly helpful but it's not an attorney's job to save your reputation attorney's job to save your reputation attorney's job to save your reputation necessarily their job is to win your necessarily their job is to win your necessarily their job is to win your case in court or defend you effectively case in court or defend you effectively case in court or defend you effectively but I've actually seen situations where but I've actually seen situations where but I've actually seen situations where a church or a Ministry won their case in a church or a Ministry won their case in a church or a Ministry won their case in court but were pretty much trashed in court but were pretty much trashed in court but were pretty much trashed in the media and a communication person you the media and a communication person you the media and a communication person you know someone like me who's going to know someone like me who's going to know someone like me who's going to advise them on those issues can really advise them on those issues can really advise them on those issues can really help get the story right and help save help get the story right and help save help get the story right and help save your reputation in the process so I your reputation in the process so I your reputation in the process so I think that's important my my goal is not think that's important my my goal is not think that's important my my goal is not to protect anybody you know the to protect anybody you know the to protect anybody you know the perpetrator certainly I'm not here to to perpetrator certainly I'm not here to to perpetrator certainly I'm not here to to cover it up or protect the perpetrator cover it up or protect the perpetrator cover it up or protect the perpetrator I'm here to help the church survive and I'm here to help the church survive and I'm here to help the church survive and move on so that's going to be really the move on so that's going to be really the move on so that's going to be really the theme of what I'm talking about these theme of what I'm talking about these theme of what I'm talking about these days yeah what what do you think is man days yeah what what do you think is man days yeah what what do you think is man I don't I don't let's dive a little bit I don't I don't let's dive a little bit I don't I don't let's dive a little bit into the book but go by the book okay into the book but go by the book okay into the book but go by the book okay but tell us just like you know what is but tell us just like you know what is but tell us just like you know what is like that common mistake that people like that common mistake that people like that common mistake that people that church leaders make well it's that church leaders make well it's that church leaders make well it's interesting I think the biggest mistake interesting I think the biggest mistake interesting I think the biggest mistake they make is not thinking a problem will they make is not thinking a problem will they make is not thinking a problem will ever happen and so they don't prepare ever happen and so they don't prepare ever happen and so they don't prepare they don't train their team um I give they don't train their team um I give they don't train their team um I give you a great example of a church in you a great example of a church in you a great example of a church in Chicago that while I was writing the Chicago that while I was writing the Chicago that while I was writing the book I got word that a church there who book I got word that a church there who book I got word that a church there who had actually the pastor had spent time had actually the pastor had spent time had actually the pastor had spent time training his team and his ushers he had training his team and his ushers he had training his team and his ushers he had two ushers that one Sunday noticed that two ushers that one Sunday noticed that two ushers that one Sunday noticed that was a new visitor who seemed awfully was a new visitor who seemed awfully was a new visitor who seemed awfully focused on looking at kids and he just focused on looking at kids and he just focused on looking at kids and he just couldn't take his eyes off the kids in couldn't take his eyes off the kids in couldn't take his eyes off the kids in the church and so they got a little the church and so they got a little the church and so they got a little concerned red flag went up and they went concerned red flag went up and they went concerned red flag went up and they went over and introduced himself introduced over and introduced himself introduced over and introduced himself introduced themselves to him got his name and then

themselves to him got his name and then themselves to him got his name and then they checked it and sure enough he was a they checked it and sure enough he was a they checked it and sure enough he was a registered sex offender and so you know registered sex offender and so you know registered sex offender and so you know it was time at that point to sit down it was time at that point to sit down it was time at that point to sit down and have that conversation with him and have that conversation with him and have that conversation with him about where the boundaries are in church about where the boundaries are in church about where the boundaries are in church life but that might have never happened life but that might have never happened life but that might have never happened had not those two ushers not been alert had not those two ushers not been alert had not those two ushers not been alert and paying attention so I really wrote and paying attention so I really wrote and paying attention so I really wrote the book for senior leaders for board the book for senior leaders for board the book for senior leaders for board members I mean the more people that are members I mean the more people that are members I mean the more people that are up to speed when a crisis happens the up to speed when a crisis happens the up to speed when a crisis happens the better off you are as I said earlier you better off you are as I said earlier you better off you are as I said earlier you know the more prepared you are the know the more prepared you are the know the more prepared you are the better you'll survive and on the other better you'll survive and on the other better you'll survive and on the other side and so I think if you can have a side and so I think if you can have a side and so I think if you can have a team around you that knows how to team around you that knows how to team around you that knows how to respond and what to do it makes a respond and what to do it makes a respond and what to do it makes a dramatic dramatic difference yeah are dramatic dramatic difference yeah are dramatic dramatic difference yeah are are there any it's like almost Bart was are there any it's like almost Bart was are there any it's like almost Bart was just sharing a few examples in today's just sharing a few examples in today's just sharing a few examples in today's newspaper yes about churches but are newspaper yes about churches but are newspaper yes about churches but are there any statistics that you've there any statistics that you've there any statistics that you've uncovered or discovered on how often uncovered or discovered on how often uncovered or discovered on how often this happens you know it's hard to tell this happens you know it's hard to tell this happens you know it's hard to tell there are 300,000 churches roughly in there are 300,000 churches roughly in there are 300,000 churches roughly in the United States and so we tend to see the United States and so we tend to see the United States and so we tend to see the headlines you know which are the big the headlines you know which are the big the headlines you know which are the big mostly sex sexually driven stories that mostly sex sexually driven stories that mostly sex sexually driven stories that are out there the funny thing is though are out there the funny thing is though are out there the funny thing is though there are a lot of other stories about there are a lot of other stories about there are a lot of other stories about embezzlement in in the book I talk about embezzlement in in the book I talk about embezzlement in in the book I talk about a poll of pastors indicated that a poll of pastors indicated that a poll of pastors indicated that something like four out of seven pastors something like four out of seven pastors something like four out of seven pastors have experienced Financial um have experienced Financial um have experienced Financial um misbehavior at their Church somebody's misbehavior at their Church somebody's misbehavior at their Church somebody's embezzled money someone stolen money I embezzled money someone stolen money I embezzled money someone stolen money I had a couple media producers I was had a couple media producers I was had a couple media producers I was talking to the other day who were talking to the other day who were talking to the other day who were exploring this for a documentary and exploring this for a documentary and exploring this for a documentary and found out there's more than a billion found out there's more than a billion found out there's more than a billion dollars stolen every year uh within dollars stolen every year uh within dollars stolen every year uh within churches and so that's a huge problem so

churches and so that's a huge problem so churches and so that's a huge problem so you know and it's interesting I've got I you know and it's interesting I've got I you know and it's interesting I've got I made a list for you guys that the top made a list for you guys that the top made a list for you guys that the top five reason let me tell you the top five five reason let me tell you the top five five reason let me tell you the top five reasons churches are sued and that'll reasons churches are sued and that'll reasons churches are sued and that'll give you an idea of the wide range of give you an idea of the wide range of give you an idea of the wide range of this this issue I mean number one sadly this this issue I mean number one sadly this this issue I mean number one sadly is sexual abuse of a minor I mean that's is sexual abuse of a minor I mean that's is sexual abuse of a minor I mean that's horrible horrible horrible and yet it horrible horrible horrible and yet it horrible horrible horrible and yet it goes on and that's the number one reason goes on and that's the number one reason goes on and that's the number one reason churches are sued the second reason is churches are sued the second reason is churches are sued the second reason is property disputes you know something is property disputes you know something is property disputes you know something is mundane is a property dispute that mundane is a property dispute that mundane is a property dispute that happens more often than we think the happens more often than we think the happens more often than we think the third reason is personal injuries kid third reason is personal injuries kid third reason is personal injuries kid breaks his leg on the playground or a breaks his leg on the playground or a breaks his leg on the playground or a painter falls off his ladder while he's painter falls off his ladder while he's painter falls off his ladder while he's painting the church a million things painting the church a million things painting the church a million things could happen there um zoning issues are could happen there um zoning issues are could happen there um zoning issues are a bigger issue than we think a very a bigger issue than we think a very a bigger issue than we think a very large church here in La a number of large church here in La a number of large church here in La a number of years ago the city tried to take over years ago the city tried to take over years ago the city tried to take over some of their property for expand of some of their property for expand of some of their property for expand of some of the things they wanted to do some of the things they wanted to do some of the things they wanted to do that would generate a tax revenue they that would generate a tax revenue they that would generate a tax revenue they had to go to court and so zoning issues had to go to court and so zoning issues had to go to court and so zoning issues are a bigger deal than we think and of are a bigger deal than we think and of are a bigger deal than we think and of course insurance coverage disputes very course insurance coverage disputes very course insurance coverage disputes very often churches fail to keep up their often churches fail to keep up their often churches fail to keep up their insurance and I and I tell you in a lot insurance and I and I tell you in a lot insurance and I and I tell you in a lot of these crises particularly accidents of these crises particularly accidents of these crises particularly accidents injuries things like that uh an injuries things like that uh an injuries things like that uh an insurance policy can save the church and insurance policy can save the church and insurance policy can save the church and so we forget sometimes that they're not so we forget sometimes that they're not so we forget sometimes that they're not all mega churches out there there are a all mega churches out there there are a all mega churches out there there are a lot of small churches out there and lot of small churches out there and lot of small churches out there and little things can you know cause them to little things can you know cause them to little things can you know cause them to actually close their doors so anything actually close their doors so anything actually close their doors so anything like this I want to help a church like this I want to help a church like this I want to help a church prepare so they can get through it prepare so they can get through it prepare so they can get through it effectively and in a healthy way yeah effectively and in a healthy way yeah effectively and in a healthy way yeah you said something earlier that caught you said something earlier that caught you said something earlier that caught my attention there's there's the the my attention there's there's the the my attention there's there's the the financial aspect of it which stand alone

financial aspect of it which stand alone financial aspect of it which stand alone that could make or break your church that could make or break your church that could make or break your church literally without insurance and then literally without insurance and then literally without insurance and then there's the public perception yeah which there's the public perception yeah which there's the public perception yeah which almost can do just as much harm uh to almost can do just as much harm uh to almost can do just as much harm uh to your reputation and and obviously to to your reputation and and obviously to to your reputation and and obviously to to God God God um so you know when you think about both um so you know when you think about both um so you know when you think about both of those kinds of things uh you know of those kinds of things uh you know of those kinds of things uh you know where does a church start when thinking where does a church start when thinking where does a church start when thinking about okay what do we how do we put about okay what do we how do we put about okay what do we how do we put together a plan you know do we type together a plan you know do we type together a plan you know do we type something up and stick it on a shelf and something up and stick it on a shelf and something up and stick it on a shelf and pull it off of we need you know what pull it off of we need you know what pull it off of we need you know what what what do you do well you buy my book what what do you do well you buy my book what what do you do well you buy my book of course that'll solve your problem I'm of course that'll solve your problem I'm of course that'll solve your problem I'm teing um you know having a teing um you know having a teing um you know having a Communications plan is important because Communications plan is important because Communications plan is important because when a crisis hits it is it can be very when a crisis hits it is it can be very when a crisis hits it is it can be very chaotic now many times a crisis is chaotic now many times a crisis is chaotic now many times a crisis is relatively small it's not a it's not a relatively small it's not a it's not a relatively small it's not a it's not a life and death issue and that's no big life and death issue and that's no big life and death issue and that's no big deal uh other times it is a life and deal uh other times it is a life and deal uh other times it is a life and death issue if a minor is involved then death issue if a minor is involved then death issue if a minor is involved then one thing I think we should discuss real one thing I think we should discuss real one thing I think we should discuss real quick is that um today by law if a minor quick is that um today by law if a minor quick is that um today by law if a minor is involved authorities need to be is involved authorities need to be is involved authorities need to be notified one of the big problems we're notified one of the big problems we're notified one of the big problems we're seeing out there today is that years ago seeing out there today is that years ago seeing out there today is that years ago there were no laws in place about that there were no laws in place about that there were no laws in place about that and then as the laws were being formed and then as the laws were being formed and then as the laws were being formed they were state byst state and kind of a they were state byst state and kind of a they were state byst state and kind of a patchwork and pastors didn't really know patchwork and pastors didn't really know patchwork and pastors didn't really know what to do ministry leaders didn't know what to do ministry leaders didn't know what to do ministry leaders didn't know what to do what to do what to do and now those young people in fact very and now those young people in fact very and now those young people in fact very often the parents of a minor would say often the parents of a minor would say often the parents of a minor would say look we just don't want this to go go look we just don't want this to go go look we just don't want this to go go public we don't want to ruin Susan's public we don't want to ruin Susan's public we don't want to ruin Susan's experience at school or John's experience at school or John's experience at school or John's experience at school we we want to keep experience at school we we want to keep experience at school we we want to keep this quiet and so now those kids are this quiet and so now those kids are this quiet and so now those kids are grown up and they're suing the church or grown up and they're suing the church or grown up and they're suing the church or suing the organization because they're

suing the organization because they're suing the organization because they're saying why didn't you deal with this you saying why didn't you deal with this you saying why didn't you deal with this you know uh Predator back in the days when I know uh Predator back in the days when I know uh Predator back in the days when I was young so the bottom line is today was young so the bottom line is today was young so the bottom line is today I've you there's no way out whether the I've you there's no way out whether the I've you there's no way out whether the parents want to keep it private it parents want to keep it private it parents want to keep it private it doesn't matter matter it needs to be doesn't matter matter it needs to be doesn't matter matter it needs to be reported and your attorney should as I reported and your attorney should as I reported and your attorney should as I said be the first call and he or she said be the first call and he or she said be the first call and he or she will know who to report it to now it is will know who to report it to now it is will know who to report it to now it is important to understand that important to understand that important to understand that um I've actually seen pastors who came um I've actually seen pastors who came um I've actually seen pastors who came with an a hair's breath of going to jail with an a hair's breath of going to jail with an a hair's breath of going to jail even though they had nothing to do with even though they had nothing to do with even though they had nothing to do with the crime but they didn't report it in the crime but they didn't report it in the crime but they didn't report it in in an appropriate amount of time and one in an appropriate amount of time and one in an appropriate amount of time and one church that was in the news just church that was in the news just church that was in the news just recently waited seven years to tell the recently waited seven years to tell the recently waited seven years to tell the congregation they just assume this youth congregation they just assume this youth congregation they just assume this youth leader who had this thing with the minor leader who had this thing with the minor leader who had this thing with the minor they didn't know about the thing with they didn't know about the thing with they didn't know about the thing with the minor they thought he was just fired the minor they thought he was just fired the minor they thought he was just fired and they kept everything kind of quiet and they kept everything kind of quiet and they kept everything kind of quiet and then seven years later the pastor and then seven years later the pastor and then seven years later the pastor reveals it to the church and can you reveals it to the church and can you reveals it to the church and can you imagine they don't trust the pastor imagine they don't trust the pastor imagine they don't trust the pastor anymore they don't trust the church anymore they don't trust the church anymore they don't trust the church anymore what do you mean seven years ago anymore what do you mean seven years ago anymore what do you mean seven years ago a kid was abused in our Sunday school a kid was abused in our Sunday school a kid was abused in our Sunday school program and you never told us about it program and you never told us about it program and you never told us about it so that's why telling the story getting so that's why telling the story getting so that's why telling the story getting the story out there in the right way is the story out there in the right way is the story out there in the right way is absolutely critical because as you say absolutely critical because as you say absolutely critical because as you say perception is important and you can perception is important and you can perception is important and you can destroy Trust pretty destroy Trust pretty destroy Trust pretty quickly if I'm a pastor L am a pastor quickly if I'm a pastor L am a pastor quickly if I'm a pastor L am a pastor I've got I'm a pastor I'm a pastor I've I've got I'm a pastor I'm a pastor I've I've got I'm a pastor I'm a pastor I've got a church I've got an elder te that got a church I've got an elder te that got a church I've got an elder te that helps me lead the church helps me lead the church helps me lead the church um talk me through what how would you um talk me through what how would you um talk me through what how would you coach me Phil I know that you you coach

coach me Phil I know that you you coach coach me Phil I know that you you coach churches through this and and you know churches through this and and you know churches through this and and you know you've written a book and you've written you've written a book and you've written you've written a book and you've written a book because you had a hands-on a book because you had a hands-on a book because you had a hands-on experience in Walking churches through experience in Walking churches through experience in Walking churches through these types of situations um let's these types of situations um let's these types of situations um let's assume that I haven't yet had the crisis assume that I haven't yet had the crisis assume that I haven't yet had the crisis that needs to put that's going to put my that needs to put that's going to put my that needs to put that's going to put my church on trial but I want to be a church on trial but I want to be a church on trial but I want to be a proactive leader and I want to walk my proactive leader and I want to walk my proactive leader and I want to walk my elders my board through a process of elders my board through a process of elders my board through a process of putting a plan together where do we putting a plan together where do we putting a plan together where do we start like like tangibly what's the start like like tangibly what's the start like like tangibly what's the first thing that we ought to do uh first thing that we ought to do uh first thing that we ought to do uh collectively as a board to start putting collectively as a board to start putting collectively as a board to start putting our plan together for communication I our plan together for communication I our plan together for communication I guess there's there's internal guess there's there's internal guess there's there's internal communication there's external communication there's external communication there's external communication there's who we call as a communication there's who we call as a communication there's who we call as a lawyer there's what we say to the Press lawyer there's what we say to the Press lawyer there's what we say to the Press what we don't say to the Press like how what we don't say to the Press like how what we don't say to the Press like how how would you lay out how would you lay out how would you lay out coach me through what I need to do well coach me through what I need to do well coach me through what I need to do well number one I always look at the size of number one I always look at the size of number one I always look at the size of the budget you know every church is the budget you know every church is the budget you know every church is different there are mega churches there different there are mega churches there different there are mega churches there are churches of 50 people and how much are churches of 50 people and how much are churches of 50 people and how much you can do really depends on your budget you can do really depends on your budget you can do really depends on your budget now if you're a denominational church if now if you're a denominational church if now if you're a denominational church if you're in the Assemblies of God for you're in the Assemblies of God for you're in the Assemblies of God for instance or some other denomination they instance or some other denomination they instance or some other denomination they usually have resources you can tap into usually have resources you can tap into usually have resources you can tap into they will have legal guides they will they will have legal guides they will they will have legal guides they will have training they will have attorneys have training they will have attorneys have training they will have attorneys that you can consult so first of all if that you can consult so first of all if that you can consult so first of all if you're a denominational Church look into you're a denominational Church look into you're a denominational Church look into to explore what denominational resources to explore what denominational resources to explore what denominational resources you may have at your disposal because you may have at your disposal because you may have at your disposal because that can make a big difference right that can make a big difference right that can make a big difference right there if not start with a budget and there if not start with a budget and there if not start with a budget and then I always start look at you know I I then I always start look at you know I I then I always start look at you know I I put a communication plan together in the put a communication plan together in the put a communication plan together in the form of questions really for instance form of questions really for instance form of questions really for instance where is your church located is it a where is your church located is it a where is your church located is it a dangerous place it is a you know should dangerous place it is a you know should dangerous place it is a you know should we be more concerned about fencing

we be more concerned about fencing we be more concerned about fencing should we be more concerned about should we be more concerned about should we be more concerned about security um a lot of churches and and security um a lot of churches and and security um a lot of churches and and you know their mission is to reach you know their mission is to reach you know their mission is to reach people in difficult places so a lot of people in difficult places so a lot of people in difficult places so a lot of churches are in dangerous places in the churches are in dangerous places in the churches are in dangerous places in the City sometimes in rural areas so where City sometimes in rural areas so where City sometimes in rural areas so where are you g geographically located that are you g geographically located that are you g geographically located that could be a that could make a real real could be a that could make a real real could be a that could make a real real difference um another question is is the difference um another question is is the difference um another question is is the pastor or anybody on staff do they have pastor or anybody on staff do they have pastor or anybody on staff do they have any communication training have they any communication training have they any communication training have they ever dealt with any issue like this ever dealt with any issue like this ever dealt with any issue like this there are places where you can go I can there are places where you can go I can there are places where you can go I can certainly recommend places where you can certainly recommend places where you can certainly recommend places where you can get some training in how to respond to a get some training in how to respond to a get some training in how to respond to a crisis like this um also social media crisis like this um also social media crisis like this um also social media plays into this in a big way how we tell plays into this in a big way how we tell plays into this in a big way how we tell the story on social media is important the story on social media is important the story on social media is important so do you have a person full-time on so do you have a person full-time on so do you have a person full-time on social media are they trained too often social media are they trained too often social media are they trained too often churches will have a communication churches will have a communication churches will have a communication director or a social media person who director or a social media person who director or a social media person who are more like you know they're almost are more like you know they're almost are more like you know they're almost like McDonald's employees you want fries like McDonald's employees you want fries like McDonald's employees you want fries with that they just take orders you know with that they just take orders you know with that they just take orders you know we need a postcard to mail for this we need a postcard to mail for this we need a postcard to mail for this Outreach we need a you know add in the Outreach we need a you know add in the Outreach we need a you know add in the bulletin they're not real strategic bulletin they're not real strategic bulletin they're not real strategic thinkers so you need to get you know thinkers so you need to get you know thinkers so you need to get you know connected with somebody who connected with somebody who connected with somebody who strategically understands how to deal strategically understands how to deal strategically understands how to deal with a crisis and how to communicate in with a crisis and how to communicate in with a crisis and how to communicate in those kind of situations I would also those kind of situations I would also those kind of situations I would also ask if you have any relationships with ask if you have any relationships with ask if you have any relationships with local media very often it can make a local media very often it can make a local media very often it can make a dramatic difference for you if you have dramatic difference for you if you have dramatic difference for you if you have a friend inside a media platform in your a friend inside a media platform in your a friend inside a media platform in your community I've worked with a number of community I've worked with a number of community I've worked with a number of churches that had a TV report a local TV churches that had a TV report a local TV churches that had a TV report a local TV reporter there was a church member well reporter there was a church member well reporter there was a church member well it's nice to have friendly media on your it's nice to have friendly media on your it's nice to have friendly media on your side it's nice to have somebody that side it's nice to have somebody that side it's nice to have somebody that will tell your story and tell it with

will tell your story and tell it with will tell your story and tell it with authority uh and tell the truth that's authority uh and tell the truth that's authority uh and tell the truth that's really really important and I don't really really important and I don't really really important and I don't think all reporters are out to get you think all reporters are out to get you think all reporters are out to get you but they're out for a story and they'd but they're out for a story and they'd but they're out for a story and they'd like their story to be you know you know like their story to be you know you know like their story to be you know you know as uh provocative as possible to get as uh provocative as possible to get as uh provocative as possible to get more viewers or readers so if you have more viewers or readers so if you have more viewers or readers so if you have relationships in the media I think relationships in the media I think relationships in the media I think that's helpful i al also think it's that's helpful i al also think it's that's helpful i al also think it's important to keep insurance policies up important to keep insurance policies up important to keep insurance policies up to date you know we talked about that a to date you know we talked about that a to date you know we talked about that a little bit earlier but very often I've little bit earlier but very often I've little bit earlier but very often I've been in situations where they just been in situations where they just been in situations where they just didn't keep insurance policies up to didn't keep insurance policies up to didn't keep insurance policies up to date and if it was an injury situation date and if it was an injury situation date and if it was an injury situation they really had some some serious they really had some some serious they really had some some serious problems another thing that is really problems another thing that is really problems another thing that is really big for me is vetting employees I I'll big for me is vetting employees I I'll big for me is vetting employees I I'll tell you even with small churches I tell you even with small churches I tell you even with small churches I would go to the trouble and expense of would go to the trouble and expense of would go to the trouble and expense of vetting all my staff and I would even vetting all my staff and I would even vetting all my staff and I would even consider particularly if you're a medium consider particularly if you're a medium consider particularly if you're a medium to larger Church vetting your um Vol Le to larger Church vetting your um Vol Le to larger Church vetting your um Vol Le volunteer leaders there are a lot of volunteer leaders there are a lot of volunteer leaders there are a lot of companies out there vetting domcom and companies out there vetting domcom and companies out there vetting domcom and there are others as well that are used there are others as well that are used there are others as well that are used to working with churches and understand to working with churches and understand to working with churches and understand how to look for crimes in the past a how to look for crimes in the past a how to look for crimes in the past a police record anything that would cause police record anything that would cause police record anything that would cause you to be afraid we just we want to you to be afraid we just we want to you to be afraid we just we want to trust we're Christians we want to trust trust we're Christians we want to trust trust we're Christians we want to trust everybody but the truth is you just everybody but the truth is you just everybody but the truth is you just never know know who might be applying never know know who might be applying never know know who might be applying for a job at your church I I actually for a job at your church I I actually for a job at your church I I actually heard of a church when I was writing the heard of a church when I was writing the heard of a church when I was writing the book that um they had a young man book that um they had a young man book that um they had a young man applying to be their youth director and applying to be their youth director and applying to be their youth director and while the application process was going while the application process was going while the application process was going on he was about to be interviewed in his on he was about to be interviewed in his on he was about to be interviewed in his final interview a woman came forward and final interview a woman came forward and final interview a woman came forward and said look I'm an only fans model which said look I'm an only fans model which said look I'm an only fans model which means a nude model essentially online

means a nude model essentially online means a nude model essentially online and she said this guy is one of my and she said this guy is one of my and she said this guy is one of my biggest fans he follows me like crazy biggest fans he follows me like crazy biggest fans he follows me like crazy and of course that ended that interview and of course that ended that interview and of course that ended that interview right away so you just never know what's right away so you just never know what's right away so you just never know what's going on in people's lives out there and going on in people's lives out there and going on in people's lives out there and it's important to figure out those it's important to figure out those it's important to figure out those things a couple last quick things I things a couple last quick things I things a couple last quick things I would say is your security team you know would say is your security team you know would say is your security team you know churches I wrote a blog post about the churches I wrote a blog post about the churches I wrote a blog post about the importance of Professional Security just importance of Professional Security just importance of Professional Security just recently and I got a lot of push back recently and I got a lot of push back recently and I got a lot of push back from pastors who will say you know I from pastors who will say you know I from pastors who will say you know I don't want my church to feel like you don't want my church to feel like you don't want my church to feel like you know TSA at the airport I I don't want know TSA at the airport I I don't want know TSA at the airport I I don't want that vibe in my church well again you that vibe in my church well again you that vibe in my church well again you never know I'm sure that church in never know I'm sure that church in never know I'm sure that church in Charleston a few years ago that had that Charleston a few years ago that had that Charleston a few years ago that had that young man come shoot up a bunch of young man come shoot up a bunch of young man come shoot up a bunch of people right after his service people right after his service people right after his service I'm sure they might not have wanted to I'm sure they might not have wanted to I'm sure they might not have wanted to have that kind of feeling but look at have that kind of feeling but look at have that kind of feeling but look at the lives a good security team might the lives a good security team might the lives a good security team might have saved that shooting in Charleston I have saved that shooting in Charleston I have saved that shooting in Charleston I mean in um Nashville that happened even mean in um Nashville that happened even mean in um Nashville that happened even more recently we just don't know there more recently we just don't know there more recently we just don't know there there's just a lot of disturbed mentally there's just a lot of disturbed mentally there's just a lot of disturbed mentally unhealthy people out there and we just unhealthy people out there and we just unhealthy people out there and we just don't know what could happen and I just don't know what could happen and I just don't know what could happen and I just think a a a trained security team think a a a trained security team think a a a trained security team doesn't have to be obvious I I did visit doesn't have to be obvious I I did visit doesn't have to be obvious I I did visit a church one time on the East Coast that a church one time on the East Coast that a church one time on the East Coast that you pulled up to the church and there you pulled up to the church and there you pulled up to the church and there was a police car parked by the front was a police car parked by the front was a police car parked by the front door you walked in there was three door you walked in there was three door you walked in there was three officers in uniform in the lobby there officers in uniform in the lobby there officers in uniform in the lobby there was a giant security desk off to the was a giant security desk off to the was a giant security desk off to the side with big monitors and guys with side with big monitors and guys with side with big monitors and guys with Badges and that did feel that was a Badges and that did feel that was a Badges and that did feel that was a little over the top there's a way you little over the top there's a way you little over the top there's a way you can integrate a good security team into can integrate a good security team into can integrate a good security team into your church so that people don't even your church so that people don't even your church so that people don't even notice and I think that's so very very notice and I think that's so very very notice and I think that's so very very important yeah I'm kind of giggling important yeah I'm kind of giggling important yeah I'm kind of giggling because my my home church is one of because my my home church is one of because my my home church is one of those churches where there is a cruiser

those churches where there is a cruiser those churches where there is a cruiser parked in front of the door and there parked in front of the door and there parked in front of the door and there are armed police officers in uniform in are armed police officers in uniform in are armed police officers in uniform in the lobby and the pastors have a tale the lobby and the pastors have a tale the lobby and the pastors have a tale that's obvious that they you know they that's obvious that they you know they that's obvious that they you know they got the little curly you got the little curly you got the little curly you know then everybody know everybody knows know then everybody know everybody knows know then everybody know everybody knows who the tale is um I I'm I'm going to who the tale is um I I'm I'm going to who the tale is um I I'm I'm going to take this opportunity just to mention take this opportunity just to mention take this opportunity just to mention this um and I don't know if you get into this um and I don't know if you get into this um and I don't know if you get into this in the book at all but um most this in the book at all but um most this in the book at all but um most churches are unaware of the fact that churches are unaware of the fact that churches are unaware of the fact that the federal government FEMA actually the federal government FEMA actually the federal government FEMA actually offers a grant uh a pretty significant offers a grant uh a pretty significant offers a grant uh a pretty significant grant for nonprofits that are trying to grant for nonprofits that are trying to grant for nonprofits that are trying to upgrade or Implement new security upgrade or Implement new security upgrade or Implement new security features in building I will link to that features in building I will link to that features in building I will link to that in the show notes of this episode I know in the show notes of this episode I know in the show notes of this episode I know a few churches uh some of our missional a few churches uh some of our missional a few churches uh some of our missional marketing partner churches have actually marketing partner churches have actually marketing partner churches have actually received tens of thousands of dollars to received tens of thousands of dollars to received tens of thousands of dollars to add security cameras to security doors add security cameras to security doors add security cameras to security doors and things in their in their property and things in their in their property and things in their in their property and I'll tell you what uh if the and I'll tell you what uh if the and I'll tell you what uh if the government is willing to pay for it then government is willing to pay for it then government is willing to pay for it then why not uh and a pretty high percentage why not uh and a pretty high percentage why not uh and a pretty high percentage of applicants that apply get it of applicants that apply get it of applicants that apply get it especially those that are in higher risk especially those that are in higher risk especially those that are in higher risk areas if you're in an urban center or areas if you're in an urban center or areas if you're in an urban center or your churches in a building or in or in your churches in a building or in or in your churches in a building or in or in an area in a community where crime tends an area in a community where crime tends an area in a community where crime tends to be a little bit higher uh you have a to be a little bit higher uh you have a to be a little bit higher uh you have a much higher chance of actually much higher chance of actually much higher chance of actually qualifying for those I would love to see qualifying for those I would love to see qualifying for those I would love to see that link I'm on my wife and I are on that link I'm on my wife and I are on that link I'm on my wife and I are on Boards of the Salvation Army and they Boards of the Salvation Army and they Boards of the Salvation Army and they have churches in extremely high risk have churches in extremely high risk have churches in extremely high risk places because they're doing amazing places because they're doing amazing places because they're doing amazing work in very difficult places and that'd work in very difficult places and that'd work in very difficult places and that'd be a great thing to pass on so that's be a great thing to pass on so that's be a great thing to pass on so that's that's really I will send that to you that's really I will send that to you that's really I will send that to you Phil yeah thank you you know one thing

Phil yeah thank you you know one thing Phil yeah thank you you know one thing that uh I get phone calls uh every now that uh I get phone calls uh every now that uh I get phone calls uh every now and then where a church wants to talk to and then where a church wants to talk to and then where a church wants to talk to me because some happened yeah and uh no me because some happened yeah and uh no me because some happened yeah and uh no doubt you Googled the name of that doubt you Googled the name of that doubt you Googled the name of that church and there's that article yeah church and there's that article yeah church and there's that article yeah it's number two number three and they're it's number two number three and they're it's number two number three and they're asking how did that pop up so high yeah asking how did that pop up so high yeah asking how did that pop up so high yeah and I have to teach him about search and I have to teach him about search and I have to teach him about search engine optimization fact that that news engine optimization fact that that news engine optimization fact that that news station has high rank Authority so when station has high rank Authority so when station has high rank Authority so when they post something and they link to they post something and they link to they post something and they link to your Church's name it's going to show up your Church's name it's going to show up your Church's name it's going to show up almost immediately because they I know I almost immediately because they I know I almost immediately because they I know I know a Ministry where a pastor oh I mean know a Ministry where a pastor oh I mean know a Ministry where a pastor oh I mean the ministry leader was arrested for the ministry leader was arrested for the ministry leader was arrested for drunk driving years and years ago and if drunk driving years and years ago and if drunk driving years and years ago and if you Google that Ministry his mug shot is you Google that Ministry his mug shot is you Google that Ministry his mug shot is the first thing that pops up and the the first thing that pops up and the the first thing that pops up and the first first page or two is news stories first first page or two is news stories first first page or two is news stories about that incident and and like you say about that incident and and like you say about that incident and and like you say you it's horrifying particularly once a you it's horrifying particularly once a you it's horrifying particularly once a crisis is over you know if that person crisis is over you know if that person crisis is over you know if that person has stepped down or they've been dealt has stepped down or they've been dealt has stepped down or they've been dealt with and you're moving on you don't want with and you're moving on you don't want with and you're moving on you don't want people to you know you're a new church people to you know you're a new church people to you know you're a new church and you don't want people to see that and you don't want people to see that and you don't want people to see that but at least on the first page and I but at least on the first page and I but at least on the first page and I think it's you're exactly right get get think it's you're exactly right get get think it's you're exactly right get get somebody connect with somebody Google somebody connect with somebody Google somebody connect with somebody Google doesn't like people doesn't like people doesn't like people messing around with their search results messing around with their search results messing around with their search results but there are inexpensive ways to fix it but there are inexpensive ways to fix it but there are inexpensive ways to fix it I one of my the cheapest ways and I'm a I one of my the cheapest ways and I'm a I one of my the cheapest ways and I'm a big believer in this is I'm shocked big believer in this is I'm shocked big believer in this is I'm shocked pastors don't get up in the pulpit and pastors don't get up in the pulpit and pastors don't get up in the pulpit and say hey if this church has meant a lot say hey if this church has meant a lot say hey if this church has meant a lot to you talk to people about it write on to you talk to people about it write on to you talk to people about it write on your blog about it write on your your blog about it write on your your blog about it write on your Facebook page about it write an article Facebook page about it write an article Facebook page about it write an article about it um you know you ought to do we about it um you know you ought to do we about it um you know you ought to do we think in terms of uh you know PR in think in terms of uh you know PR in think in terms of uh you know PR in terms of what happens if something bad terms of what happens if something bad terms of what happens if something bad goes H goes down but we don't think in

goes H goes down but we don't think in goes H goes down but we don't think in terms of telling about the positive terms of telling about the positive terms of telling about the positive stories that happened in our church so stories that happened in our church so stories that happened in our church so the more good stories are out there the the more good stories are out there the the more good stories are out there the more that negative stuff gets eventually more that negative stuff gets eventually more that negative stuff gets eventually pushed down so that even inexpensive pushed down so that even inexpensive pushed down so that even inexpensive ways like that can make a deal I've ways like that can make a deal I've ways like that can make a deal I've actually given advice to smaller actually given advice to smaller actually given advice to smaller churches change your name oh yeah just churches change your name oh yeah just churches change your name oh yeah just change your domain name change your name change your domain name change your name change your domain name change your name uh reset and and go from there because uh reset and and go from there because uh reset and and go from there because I'll tell you that article's never going I'll tell you that article's never going I'll tell you that article's never going to go away there is a place I think to go away there is a place I think to go away there is a place I think where the negative baggage becomes so where the negative baggage becomes so where the negative baggage becomes so big so heavy that changing your name is big so heavy that changing your name is big so heavy that changing your name is a really significant really important a really significant really important a really significant really important option so that's a great that's great option so that's a great that's great option so that's a great that's great advice right there let me comment on advice right there let me comment on advice right there let me comment on what you said there just a second Phil what you said there just a second Phil what you said there just a second Phil because I this is so our primary because I this is so our primary because I this is so our primary audience here that's listening are audience here that's listening are audience here that's listening are Communications directors for the most Communications directors for the most Communications directors for the most part or people who are responsible for part or people who are responsible for part or people who are responsible for the communications in their church and the communications in their church and the communications in their church and one of the things I coach churches on as one of the things I coach churches on as one of the things I coach churches on as they're going through any type of they're going through any type of they're going through any type of situation like this is you know the the situation like this is you know the the situation like this is you know the the the best way as you just said to deal the best way as you just said to deal the best way as you just said to deal with bad press is to bury it with good with bad press is to bury it with good with bad press is to bury it with good press most of our churches generally press most of our churches generally press most of our churches generally speaking do not have a consistent or speaking do not have a consistent or speaking do not have a consistent or regular plan for press releases to even regular plan for press releases to even regular plan for press releases to even promote the positive things that they're promote the positive things that they're promote the positive things that they're doing and every Church's communication doing and every Church's communication doing and every Church's communication strategy ought to have a regular rhythm strategy ought to have a regular rhythm strategy ought to have a regular rhythm of releasing press releases when good of releasing press releases when good of releasing press releases when good things are happening you're sending a things are happening you're sending a things are happening you're sending a team of high school students to Honduras team of high school students to Honduras team of high school students to Honduras on a mission trip send out a press on a mission trip send out a press on a mission trip send out a press release you're hosting a marriage release you're hosting a marriage release you're hosting a marriage conference send out a press release conference send out a press release conference send out a press release whatever it is that your church is doing whatever it is that your church is doing whatever it is that your church is doing that is a positive vibe something that

that is a positive vibe something that that is a positive vibe something that could be celebrated not just in the could be celebrated not just in the could be celebrated not just in the church something in the community you church something in the community you church something in the community you need to have a rhythm of releasing press need to have a rhythm of releasing press need to have a rhythm of releasing press releases build relationships with people releases build relationships with people releases build relationships with people in the media what most people don't in the media what most people don't in the media what most people don't realize is that people in the media are realize is that people in the media are realize is that people in the media are typically looking for stories to tell typically looking for stories to tell typically looking for stories to tell and if we're writing and creating good and if we're writing and creating good and if we're writing and creating good press releases and sending them out press releases and sending them out press releases and sending them out consistently we're helping them do their consistently we're helping them do their consistently we're helping them do their job and they want to write articles job and they want to write articles job and they want to write articles about us now obviously there are going about us now obviously there are going about us now obviously there are going to be some folks out there they could to be some folks out there they could to be some folks out there they could care less about what your church is care less about what your church is care less about what your church is doing but there are the folks out there doing but there are the folks out there doing but there are the folks out there who will and if you do have some bad who will and if you do have some bad who will and if you do have some bad press out there that's you know ranking press out there that's you know ranking press out there that's you know ranking high on the internet when people Google high on the internet when people Google high on the internet when people Google your Church's name getting into a your Church's name getting into a your Church's name getting into a regular rhythm of releasing press regular rhythm of releasing press regular rhythm of releasing press releases is one of the best ways to releases is one of the best ways to releases is one of the best ways to combat that that's absolutely true and combat that that's absolutely true and combat that that's absolutely true and and people think in the digital age that and people think in the digital age that and people think in the digital age that press releases are dead but they're press releases are dead but they're press releases are dead but they're really not because you never know I'm really not because you never know I'm really not because you never know I'm constantly amazed at requests I'll get constantly amazed at requests I'll get constantly amazed at requests I'll get from somebody who saw a press release we from somebody who saw a press release we from somebody who saw a press release we sent out you know from winning some sent out you know from winning some sent out you know from winning some award at a film competition or from award at a film competition or from award at a film competition or from releasing a book it's just really releasing a book it's just really releasing a book it's just really interesting in fact I had a conversation interesting in fact I had a conversation interesting in fact I had a conversation with our team this morning about a with our team this morning about a with our team this morning about a release about this new book book and um release about this new book book and um release about this new book book and um I I I thought even if we didn't send it I I I thought even if we didn't send it I I I thought even if we didn't send it out as a press release just putting it out as a press release just putting it out as a press release just putting it on our website puts it out there online on our website puts it out there online on our website puts it out there online so just get that story out get your so just get that story out get your so just get that story out get your stories out there we don't think about stories out there we don't think about stories out there we don't think about it enough and I think we forget how it enough and I think we forget how it enough and I think we forget how exponential social media is and if we exponential social media is and if we exponential social media is and if we had everybody in our congregation had everybody in our congregation had everybody in our congregation talking about this amazing Church talking about this amazing Church talking about this amazing Church they're gonna their friends are going to they're gonna their friends are going to they're gonna their friends are going to see it their friends are going to talk see it their friends are going to talk see it their friends are going to talk about it they'll pass it around it's about it they'll pass it around it's about it they'll pass it around it's just amazing how how many people will just amazing how how many people will just amazing how how many people will end up seeing something like that yeah

end up seeing something like that yeah end up seeing something like that yeah yeah I I always encourage you know yeah I I always encourage you know yeah I I always encourage you know obviously local go to your local and obviously local go to your local and obviously local go to your local and just research those and ask them how how just research those and ask them how how just research those and ask them how how you can submit a press release or go to you can submit a press release or go to you can submit a press release or go to pr.com yes just simple ways you know but pr.com yes just simple ways you know but pr.com yes just simple ways you know but all that stuff really helps especially all that stuff really helps especially all that stuff really helps especially when something negative happens you're when something negative happens you're when something negative happens you're gonna be more equipped to combat that gonna be more equipped to combat that gonna be more equipped to combat that absolutely true absolutely true church absolutely true absolutely true church absolutely true absolutely true church on trial is really a manual for that I on trial is really a manual for that I on trial is really a manual for that I just want people to underline it Dogge just want people to underline it Dogge just want people to underline it Dogge ear it you know share it with your ear it you know share it with your ear it you know share it with your senior team I think it's really critical senior team I think it's really critical senior team I think it's really critical what what's when when's the book coming what what's when when's the book coming what what's when when's the book coming out it's not out just yet is it Phil out it's not out just yet is it Phil out it's not out just yet is it Phil Treet date is July 1st and um so it'll Treet date is July 1st and um so it'll Treet date is July 1st and um so it'll be you could pre-order it my blog at be you could pre-order it my blog at be you could pre-order it my blog at Phil cook.com but it actually becomes Phil cook.com but it actually becomes Phil cook.com but it actually becomes available in July and so um yeah we're available in July and so um yeah we're available in July and so um yeah we're really excited about that but I I mean really excited about that but I I mean really excited about that but I I mean it's interesting that you mentioned that it's interesting that you mentioned that it's interesting that you mentioned that so many communication directors um are so many communication directors um are so many communication directors um are listening I would say this to listening I would say this to listening I would say this to communication directors at churches and communication directors at churches and communication directors at churches and Ministry organizations you know if you Ministry organizations you know if you Ministry organizations you know if you want your career to move forward get want your career to move forward get want your career to move forward get past the order taking stage you know I past the order taking stage you know I past the order taking stage you know I kind of mentioned that a minute ago you kind of mentioned that a minute ago you kind of mentioned that a minute ago you know get to the place where you become know get to the place where you become know get to the place where you become become a strategic thinker if you look become a strategic thinker if you look become a strategic thinker if you look at some of the most effective churches at some of the most effective churches at some of the most effective churches in America the communication director is in America the communication director is in America the communication director is probably the number two voice in that probably the number two voice in that probably the number two voice in that church they're there to cons really church they're there to cons really church they're there to cons really advise the pastor consult with the team advise the pastor consult with the team advise the pastor consult with the team give them ideas you know be an idea give them ideas you know be an idea give them ideas you know be an idea generator and this is one area where if generator and this is one area where if generator and this is one area where if the more you learn about crisis the more you learn about crisis the more you learn about crisis situations the more you're going to be situations the more you're going to be situations the more you're going to be the person that steps up I even talk in the person that steps up I even talk in the person that steps up I even talk in the book about uh the kind of the book about uh the kind of the book about uh the kind of communication director that could step communication director that could step communication director that could step up and be the spok spokes person during

up and be the spok spokes person during up and be the spok spokes person during a crisis you know there's very often we a crisis you know there's very often we a crisis you know there's very often we want the pastor or Ministry leader to be want the pastor or Ministry leader to be want the pastor or Ministry leader to be the spokesperson but in many cases the spokesperson but in many cases the spokesperson but in many cases they're you know knee deep in dealing they're you know knee deep in dealing they're you know knee deep in dealing with a crisis and we need someone else with a crisis and we need someone else with a crisis and we need someone else and so when the communication director and so when the communication director and so when the communication director is really articulate really good in is really articulate really good in is really articulate really good in front of a camera knows the facts and front of a camera knows the facts and front of a camera knows the facts and knows this stuff that's the perfect knows this stuff that's the perfect knows this stuff that's the perfect person to have in front of you telling person to have in front of you telling person to have in front of you telling the story about what's going on yeah the story about what's going on yeah the story about what's going on yeah yeah I got to do that for my church no yeah I got to do that for my church no yeah I got to do that for my church no praise the Lord I never had to deal with praise the Lord I never had to deal with praise the Lord I never had to deal with bad press but I got to deal with good bad press but I got to deal with good bad press but I got to deal with good press press press F that's good that's good well good F that's good that's good well good F that's good that's good well good press is a good way to start so that way press is a good way to start so that way press is a good way to start so that way if the bad press happens you're ready if the bad press happens you're ready if the bad press happens you're ready for it you know another little nugget is for it you know another little nugget is for it you know another little nugget is um I used to uh i' made friends with um I used to uh i' made friends with um I used to uh i' made friends with some of the local media and I'd take some of the local media and I'd take some of the local media and I'd take them to lunch oh yeah I can't them to lunch oh yeah I can't them to lunch oh yeah I can't relationship it's relationships this relationship it's relationships this relationship it's relationships this whole thing is about relationships and whole thing is about relationships and whole thing is about relationships and you are in the you know the news you are in the you know the news you are in the you know the news business if you're a communication business if you're a communication business if you're a communication director what you do you're you're director what you do you're you're director what you do you're you're pushing news um and so you just want to pushing news um and so you just want to pushing news um and so you just want to you know take the take a minute to focus you know take the take a minute to focus you know take the take a minute to focus on that um and people Jason that's so on that um and people Jason that's so on that um and people Jason that's so good along that line in the book I talk good along that line in the book I talk good along that line in the book I talk about Pastor Jack Hayford who was our about Pastor Jack Hayford who was our about Pastor Jack Hayford who was our pastor at church on the way here in La pastor at church on the way here in La pastor at church on the way here in La for for 20 some years yeah and early in for for 20 some years yeah and early in for for 20 some years yeah and early in his you know he told me that when he his you know he told me that when he his you know he told me that when he first came to church on the way and Van first came to church on the way and Van first came to church on the way and Van it was the first Four Square Church in it was the first Four Square Church in it was the first Four Square Church in Van nobody knew about it nobody knew Van nobody knew about it nobody knew Van nobody knew about it nobody knew about Jack Hayford he said he just had a about Jack Hayford he said he just had a about Jack Hayford he said he just had a brainstorm to call the religion editor brainstorm to call the religion editor brainstorm to call the religion editor of the LA Times and take him to lunch of the LA Times and take him to lunch of the LA Times and take him to lunch and he said look I know you're dealing and he said look I know you're dealing and he said look I know you're dealing with a lot of stuff because the religion with a lot of stuff because the religion with a lot of stuff because the religion editor was talking about all the editor was talking about all the editor was talking about all the religions there are in LA and how much

religions there are in LA and how much religions there are in LA and how much he has to do and he said look I don't he has to do and he said look I don't he has to do and he said look I don't know anything about those other know anything about those other know anything about those other religious faiths but I know a lot about religious faiths but I know a lot about religious faiths but I know a lot about Christianity and when a story comes up Christianity and when a story comes up Christianity and when a story comes up or you need research done I'll put my or you need research done I'll put my or you need research done I'll put my staff at your disposal and I'll do staff at your disposal and I'll do staff at your disposal and I'll do whatever I can to help you and that whatever I can to help you and that whatever I can to help you and that developed into a friendship over 20-some developed into a friendship over 20-some developed into a friendship over 20-some years that all during that time whenever years that all during that time whenever years that all during that time whenever a story would come up in the LA Times a story would come up in the LA Times a story would come up in the LA Times about Christianity or any aspect of it about Christianity or any aspect of it about Christianity or any aspect of it guess who got quoted it was always Jack guess who got quoted it was always Jack guess who got quoted it was always Jack haford I mean Jack got we made a joke haford I mean Jack got we made a joke haford I mean Jack got we made a joke that got millions of dollarss in that got millions of dollarss in that got millions of dollarss in publicity free just from being that guy publicity free just from being that guy publicity free just from being that guy so just for taking him to lunch yeah I'm so just for taking him to lunch yeah I'm so just for taking him to lunch yeah I'm having I'm having a Deja Vu moment Phil having I'm having a Deja Vu moment Phil having I'm having a Deja Vu moment Phil did you tell that story in one of your did you tell that story in one of your did you tell that story in one of your other books I I may have it's it's other books I I may have it's it's other books I I may have it's it's a I've read that story and I think I a I've read that story and I think I a I've read that story and I think I must have read it in one of Philip must have read it in one of Philip must have read it in one of Philip Cook's books well you know and um Cook's books well you know and um Cook's books well you know and um nowadays most newspapers and TV stations nowadays most newspapers and TV stations nowadays most newspapers and TV stations don't have a religion editor um but don't have a religion editor um but don't have a religion editor um but there's somebody there that will deal there's somebody there that will deal there's somebody there that will deal with with those stories find out who with with those stories find out who with with those stories find out who that person is as much as you can and that person is as much as you can and that person is as much as you can and offer help them offer offer to take him offer help them offer offer to take him offer help them offer offer to take him to lunch just develop a relationship to lunch just develop a relationship to lunch just develop a relationship because I said you have no idea the because I said you have no idea the because I said you have no idea the number of times I've been knee deep in a number of times I've been knee deep in a number of times I've been knee deep in a crisis with the church and the pastor crisis with the church and the pastor crisis with the church and the pastor just mentioned oh well you know the news just mentioned oh well you know the news just mentioned oh well you know the news anchor for the local TV station as a anchor for the local TV station as a anchor for the local TV station as a church member well hello let's give her church member well hello let's give her church member well hello let's give her a call you know so it just makes a big a call you know so it just makes a big a call you know so it just makes a big difference yeah okay so uh is there difference yeah okay so uh is there difference yeah okay so uh is there anything we didn't ask that that you anything we didn't ask that that you anything we didn't ask that that you feel like we should we should dive into feel like we should we should dive into feel like we should we should dive into one thing I'm really big on in the

one thing I'm really big on in the one thing I'm really big on in the church in the book is red flags you know church in the book is red flags you know church in the book is red flags you know we're we're all Christians and we want we're we're all Christians and we want we're we're all Christians and we want to thank the best of everybody but I've to thank the best of everybody but I've to thank the best of everybody but I've discovered that as a result of that we discovered that as a result of that we discovered that as a result of that we often don't to pay attention to red often don't to pay attention to red often don't to pay attention to red flags when they show up now we don't flags when they show up now we don't flags when they show up now we don't want to become a Behavior cop at church want to become a Behavior cop at church want to become a Behavior cop at church we don't want to start accusing people we don't want to start accusing people we don't want to start accusing people because a false accusation can destroy because a false accusation can destroy because a false accusation can destroy life it could damage a church but just life it could damage a church but just life it could damage a church but just being aware I mentioned those ushers being aware I mentioned those ushers being aware I mentioned those ushers just that were paying attention of that just that were paying attention of that just that were paying attention of that new visitor that was looking at the kids new visitor that was looking at the kids new visitor that was looking at the kids the you know the other day um being the you know the other day um being the you know the other day um being aware you know maybe it's a youth aware you know maybe it's a youth aware you know maybe it's a youth director that's spending a little too director that's spending a little too director that's spending a little too much time with one girl in the youth much time with one girl in the youth much time with one girl in the youth group or maybe it's a executive Pastor group or maybe it's a executive Pastor group or maybe it's a executive Pastor who comes in strangely looking like he who comes in strangely looking like he who comes in strangely looking like he has a hangover every morning um maybe has a hangover every morning um maybe has a hangover every morning um maybe it's time to sit down and have a little it's time to sit down and have a little it's time to sit down and have a little conver conversation with that person or conver conversation with that person or conver conversation with that person or go to a senior leader if you see it and go to a senior leader if you see it and go to a senior leader if you see it and say I've been noticing this about Sam say I've been noticing this about Sam say I've been noticing this about Sam maybe we should have a conversation maybe we should have a conversation maybe we should have a conversation because if we could you know nip it in because if we could you know nip it in because if we could you know nip it in the bud as they say if we could stop the bud as they say if we could stop the bud as they say if we could stop stop the problem when that red flag stop the problem when that red flag stop the problem when that red flag first appears it's interesting that first appears it's interesting that first appears it's interesting that almost every case when I've helped a almost every case when I've helped a almost every case when I've helped a church navigate through a crisis when we church navigate through a crisis when we church navigate through a crisis when we get on the other side I'll often get the get on the other side I'll often get the get on the other side I'll often get the senior team together and I'll say okay senior team together and I'll say okay senior team together and I'll say okay knowing what you know now looking back knowing what you know now looking back knowing what you know now looking back over the last year maybe two years were over the last year maybe two years were over the last year maybe two years were there red flags that you should have there red flags that you should have there red flags that you should have noticed that you didn't in almost every noticed that you didn't in almost every noticed that you didn't in almost every case they'll say absolutely now I know case they'll say absolutely now I know case they'll say absolutely now I know why Bob was doing this and now I know why Bob was doing this and now I know why Bob was doing this and now I know why Susan kept doing that or why Sam why Susan kept doing that or why Sam why Susan kept doing that or why Sam didn't show up here didn't show up here didn't show up here and so I just think if if we were just and so I just think if if we were just and so I just think if if we were just more sensitive about red flags in a

more sensitive about red flags in a more sensitive about red flags in a positive way not here to condemn anybody positive way not here to condemn anybody positive way not here to condemn anybody not here to judge somebody but when we not here to judge somebody but when we not here to judge somebody but when we see something you know at the airport see something you know at the airport see something you know at the airport they say if you see something say they say if you see something say they say if you see something say something yeah and we probably should do something yeah and we probably should do something yeah and we probably should do that more in church and Ministry that more in church and Ministry that more in church and Ministry situations because it could save it situations because it could save it situations because it could save it could literally Save a Life yeah so good could literally Save a Life yeah so good could literally Save a Life yeah so good so good all right so hey everybody go so good all right so hey everybody go so good all right so hey everybody go get this book it's going to not only get get this book it's going to not only get get this book it's going to not only get it you know open it up earmark it hand it you know open it up earmark it hand it you know open it up earmark it hand it out to ership buy one for the whole it out to ership buy one for the whole it out to ership buy one for the whole leadership team make sure you're well leadership team make sure you're well leadership team make sure you're well equipped and prepared for yeah Phil equipped and prepared for yeah Phil equipped and prepared for yeah Phil cook.com is where you said people can cook.com is where you said people can cook.com is where you said people can find it I'm assuming cook withe Phil find it I'm assuming cook withe Phil find it I'm assuming cook withe Phil cook with.com and absolutely go get and cook with.com and absolutely go get and cook with.com and absolutely go get and pre-order it you'll be the first to get pre-order it you'll be the first to get pre-order it you'll be the first to get it but then in July it'll start being it but then in July it'll start being it but then in July it'll start being available everywhere fantastic Phil available everywhere fantastic Phil available everywhere fantastic Phil thank you so much hey thank you guys you thank you so much hey thank you guys you thank you so much hey thank you guys you were fantastic you you you do the great were fantastic you you you do the great were fantastic you you you do the great the best questions ever so I really the best questions ever so I really the best questions ever so I really enjoy being on the podcast you guys are enjoy being on the podcast you guys are enjoy being on the podcast you guys are great yeah well tell your friends about great yeah well tell your friends about great yeah well tell your friends about us we'll tell our friends about you and us we'll tell our friends about you and us we'll tell our friends about you and hey we'll be we'll be praying that your hey we'll be we'll be praying that your hey we'll be we'll be praying that your uh California to Tennessee move go uh California to Tennessee move go uh California to Tennessee move go smoothly that none of your Awards get smoothly that none of your Awards get smoothly that none of your Awards get broken in the boxes in transit uh and uh broken in the boxes in transit uh and uh broken in the boxes in transit uh and uh whatever else is important to you whatever else is important to you whatever else is important to you reunion with your grandkids know that's reunion with your grandkids know that's reunion with your grandkids know that's than that's precious hey for those of than that's precious hey for those of than that's precious hey for those of you who made it all the way to the end you who made it all the way to the end you who made it all the way to the end of this podcast episode thank you so of this podcast episode thank you so of this podcast episode thank you so much uh for being a u a listener or a much uh for being a u a listener or a much uh for being a u a listener or a watcher of the visal marketing podcast watcher of the visal marketing podcast watcher of the visal marketing podcast we appreciate that remember that if you we appreciate that remember that if you we appreciate that remember that if you haven't left us a ring or review haven't left us a ring or review haven't left us a ring or review wherever you uh consume this content we wherever you uh consume this content we wherever you uh consume this content we would love that and if you haven't yet would love that and if you haven't yet would love that and if you haven't yet subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast be sure that you do favorite podcast be sure that you do favorite podcast be 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that so that you don't miss any future that so that you don't miss any future episodes uh on behalf of Phil cook and episodes uh on behalf of Phil cook and episodes uh on behalf of Phil cook and Jason Hamrock I'm bar Blair and this has Jason Hamrock I'm bar Blair and this has Jason Hamrock I'm bar Blair and this has been another episode of the missional been another episode of the missional been another episode of the missional marketing pod Chast marketing pod Chast marketing pod Chast [Applause]