Is Your Church Website Working for First Time Guests? | Jason and Bart

Fewer Fewer [music] website visitors means that every visit website visitors means that every visit carries much more weight. And that means carries much more weight. And that means carries much more weight. And that means we have to be much more intentional with we have to be much more intentional with we have to be much more intentional with what we're doing on the website to guide what we're doing on the website to guide what we're doing on the website to guide people into what we would call on a people into what we would call on a people into what we would call on a website a conversion. Welcome to the website a conversion. Welcome to the website a conversion. Welcome to the missional marketing podcast. This is missional marketing podcast. This is missional marketing podcast. This is episode number episode number episode number >> 185. >> 185. >> 185. >> 185. 185. We are marching towards the >> 185. 185. We are marching towards the >> 185. 185. We are marching towards the 200th episode here in the year of 2026. 200th episode here in the year of 2026. 200th episode here in the year of 2026. So, if you happen to be listening to So, if you happen to be listening to So, if you happen to be listening to this in real time, uh happy midway this in real time, uh happy midway this in real time, uh happy midway through the year. Uh we're glad that you through the year. Uh we're glad that you through the year. Uh we're glad that you have joined us on another episode of the have joined us on another episode of the have joined us on another episode of the show. My name is Bart Blair. I'm uh part show. My name is Bart Blair. I'm uh part show. My name is Bart Blair. I'm uh part of the missional marketing church of the missional marketing church of the missional marketing church communications group team and I'm joined communications group team and I'm joined communications group team and I'm joined by the CEO of our organization, Mr. by the CEO of our organization, Mr. by the CEO of our organization, Mr. Jason Hamrock. Hello, Jason. Jason Hamrock. Hello, Jason. Jason Hamrock. Hello, Jason. >> Hi, Bart. It's so I love doing these >> Hi, Bart. It's so I love doing these >> Hi, Bart. It's so I love doing these podcasts with you. It's fun to teach. podcasts with you. It's fun to teach. podcasts with you. It's fun to teach. It's also fun to just collaborate. It's also fun to just collaborate. It's also fun to just collaborate. >> Yeah. Oh, and and we're learning, right? >> Yeah. Oh, and and we're learning, right? >> Yeah. Oh, and and we're learning, right? Every time we get on this, we're like Every time we get on this, we're like Every time we get on this, we're like doing a deeper dive into something that doing a deeper dive into something that doing a deeper dive into something that we're having to just continue to educate we're having to just continue to educate we're having to just continue to educate ourselves on. We want to be better. We ourselves on. We want to be better. We ourselves on. We want to be better. We want to be more helpful. We want this want to be more helpful. We want this want to be more helpful. We want this content to be helpful for you. We've content to be helpful for you. We've content to be helpful for you. We've been producing this podcast since 2020 been producing this podcast since 2020 been producing this podcast since 2020 with the goal of helping churches grow with the goal of helping churches grow with the goal of helping churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and by leveraging digital marketing and by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications. We know that effective communications. We know that effective communications. We know that you as a church leader, you want to you as a church leader, you want to you as a church leader, you want to reach more people in your community. You reach more people in your community. You reach more people in your community. You want more people coming through your want more people coming through your want more people coming through your front doors on Sunday. you would love front doors on Sunday. you would love front doors on Sunday. you would love for those people to be people who are for those people to be people who are for those people to be people who are spiritually open looking for Jesus so spiritually open looking for Jesus so spiritually open looking for Jesus so that your church uh can reap a har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har harvest har har har har har har har har harvest har har har har har har har har harvest for the kingdom and uh that's what we'd

for the kingdom and uh that's what we'd for the kingdom and uh that's what we'd love to be able to support you in. And love to be able to support you in. And love to be able to support you in. And today today today >> we're going to be talking about your >> we're going to be talking about your >> we're going to be talking about your church website. Now we talk about church website. Now we talk about church website. Now we talk about websites a lot. We have a lot of websites a lot. We have a lot of websites a lot. We have a lot of episodes in our archives on websites, episodes in our archives on websites, episodes in our archives on websites, but we're going to talk about websites but we're going to talk about websites but we're going to talk about websites maybe with a slightly different angle or maybe with a slightly different angle or maybe with a slightly different angle or more intentional angle today. I've more intentional angle today. I've more intentional angle today. I've titled this particular episode, is your titled this particular episode, is your titled this particular episode, is your church website actually working for church website actually working for church website actually working for firsttime guests? The reason reason I firsttime guests? The reason reason I firsttime guests? The reason reason I decided to cue this episode up today, decided to cue this episode up today, decided to cue this episode up today, Jason, is because we're learning some Jason, is because we're learning some Jason, is because we're learning some things about church website traffic. Do things about church website traffic. Do things about church website traffic. Do you want to share a little bit about you want to share a little bit about you want to share a little bit about what we're learning about church website what we're learning about church website what we're learning about church website traffic? traffic? traffic? >> Yeah, unless you've been living under a >> Yeah, unless you've been living under a >> Yeah, unless you've been living under a rock, which I doubt all of you are, rock, which I doubt all of you are, rock, which I doubt all of you are, there is some massive changes going on there is some massive changes going on there is some massive changes going on in in the world of of search engines, in in the world of of search engines, in in the world of of search engines, specifically Google. You know, Google's specifically Google. You know, Google's specifically Google. You know, Google's the big beast because of AI. And what's the big beast because of AI. And what's the big beast because of AI. And what's happening is what's called a zeroclick happening is what's called a zeroclick happening is what's called a zeroclick search result. Zero click meaning people search result. Zero click meaning people search result. Zero click meaning people are going to Google looking for what are going to Google looking for what are going to Google looking for what they're looking for and getting the they're looking for and getting the they're looking for and getting the answer through the either AI's overview answer through the either AI's overview answer through the either AI's overview or they're just simply going to LLMs or they're just simply going to LLMs or they're just simply going to LLMs like Claude or Chat GPT or Grock, right?

like Claude or Chat GPT or Grock, right? like Claude or Chat GPT or Grock, right? And so what's happening is that's And so what's happening is that's And so what's happening is that's causing organic traffic to a church causing organic traffic to a church causing organic traffic to a church website to drop. And and and you Bart, I website to drop. And and and you Bart, I website to drop. And and and you Bart, I know you talked to your your churches know you talked to your your churches know you talked to your your churches that you get to serve here at Michel that you get to serve here at Michel that you get to serve here at Michel Marketing and you are seeing a pretty Marketing and you are seeing a pretty Marketing and you are seeing a pretty big trend in all this, aren't you? big trend in all this, aren't you? big trend in all this, aren't you? >> Yeah. I you know even just last week uh >> Yeah. I you know even just last week uh >> Yeah. I you know even just last week uh as I was reviewing kind of May uh as I was reviewing kind of May uh as I was reviewing kind of May uh website traffic from churches comparing website traffic from churches comparing website traffic from churches comparing May of 2026 to May of 2025 May of 2026 to May of 2025 May of 2026 to May of 2025 almost every single church website that almost every single church website that almost every single church website that I looked at which was probably about a I looked at which was probably about a I looked at which was probably about a dozen year-over-year organic traffic is dozen year-over-year organic traffic is dozen year-over-year organic traffic is down Google is reporting Google reported down Google is reporting Google reported down Google is reporting Google reported in the first quarter of this year a 68% in the first quarter of this year a 68% in the first quarter of this year a 68% zeroclick search rate that means almost zeroclick search rate that means almost zeroclick search rate that means almost seven out of 10 people who did a Google seven out of 10 people who did a Google seven out of 10 people who did a Google search did not follow through with a search did not follow through with a search did not follow through with a click to a website. And I think you hit click to a website. And I think you hit click to a website. And I think you hit the nail on the head, Jason. I think a the nail on the head, Jason. I think a the nail on the head, Jason. I think a lot of us are getting the answers to the lot of us are getting the answers to the lot of us are getting the answers to the questions that we're asking in an AI u questions that we're asking in an AI u questions that we're asking in an AI u an AI summary, AI overview overview.

an AI summary, AI overview overview. an AI summary, AI overview overview. We're going over to AI mo mode in go We're going over to AI mo mode in go We're going over to AI mo mode in go Google or we're just cutting to the Google or we're just cutting to the Google or we're just cutting to the chase and going straight to claude or chase and going straight to claude or chase and going straight to claude or chatgpt or perplexity and doing our chatgpt or perplexity and doing our chatgpt or perplexity and doing our search there. Um searches are becoming search there. Um searches are becoming search there. Um searches are becoming more complex. uh people are getting more more complex. uh people are getting more more complex. uh people are getting more definitive answers with their searches definitive answers with their searches definitive answers with their searches and it means that they don't need to go and it means that they don't need to go and it means that they don't need to go to the website to get the information. to the website to get the information. to the website to get the information. Think about it this way. If you're let's Think about it this way. If you're let's Think about it this way. If you're let's say you're Grace Community Church in San say you're Grace Community Church in San say you're Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas, that's actually a church Antonio, Texas, that's actually a church Antonio, Texas, that's actually a church that we get to serve. You're Grace that we get to serve. You're Grace that we get to serve. You're Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas, Community Church in San Antonio, Texas, Community Church in San Antonio, Texas, and somebody searches, hey, Google, what and somebody searches, hey, Google, what and somebody searches, hey, Google, what time are the services at Grace Community time are the services at Grace Community time are the services at Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas? Church in San Antonio, Texas? Church in San Antonio, Texas? Google will now tell them what time the Google will now tell them what time the Google will now tell them what time the services are and a little bit of services are and a little bit of services are and a little bit of additional information in the AO. And additional information in the AO. And additional information in the AO. And here's my my Google phone is talking to here's my my Google phone is talking to here's my my Google phone is talking to me. My phone is always I should have me. My phone is always I should have me. My phone is always I should have turned that off. Um but but Google gives turned that off. Um but but Google gives turned that off. Um but but Google gives the results in an AI overview now. They the results in an AI overview now. They the results in an AI overview now. They don't have to click to your website to don't have to click to your website to don't have to click to your website to get that information. Right. get that information. Right. get that information. Right. >> That's right. And and and we have to >> That's right. And and and we have to >> That's right. And and and we have to understand So I think in a in a future understand So I think in a in a future understand So I think in a in a future very soon podcast we're going to dive very soon podcast we're going to dive very soon podcast we're going to dive deeper into how do you ensure that deeper into how do you ensure that deeper into how do you ensure that you're making you're being found these you're making you're being found these you're making you're being found these large language models accurately. As my large language models accurately. As my large language models accurately. As my co-host always says, the A in AI does co-host always says, the A in AI does co-host always says, the A in AI does not stand for accuracy all the time.

not stand for accuracy all the time. not stand for accuracy all the time. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> It's a whole another whole another >> It's a whole another whole another >> It's a whole another whole another podcast because it's really important podcast because it's really important podcast because it's really important you understand how to get found, you you understand how to get found, you you understand how to get found, you know, how to get found in large language know, how to get found in large language know, how to get found in large language models. But and for for this particular models. But and for for this particular models. But and for for this particular podcast today, the reason why we want to podcast today, the reason why we want to podcast today, the reason why we want to talk about actually working for for talk about actually working for for talk about actually working for for first-time visits, first- time guests on first-time visits, first- time guests on first-time visits, first- time guests on your website is because you have less to your website is because you have less to your website is because you have less to work with. So, you got to make a really work with. So, you got to make a really work with. So, you got to make a really good impact on those visitors who are on good impact on those visitors who are on good impact on those visitors who are on your website because they're they're your website because they're they're your website because they're they're there for a reason. And let's not blow there for a reason. And let's not blow there for a reason. And let's not blow that opportunity. that opportunity. that opportunity. >> Yeah. Fewer website visitors means that >> Yeah. Fewer website visitors means that >> Yeah. Fewer website visitors means that every visit carries much more weight. every visit carries much more weight. every visit carries much more weight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that means we have to be much more >> And that means we have to be much more >> And that means we have to be much more intentional with what we're doing on the intentional with what we're doing on the intentional with what we're doing on the website to guide people into what we website to guide people into what we website to guide people into what we would call on a website a conversion. would call on a website a conversion. would call on a website a conversion. What what is a conversion? I mean, What what is a conversion? I mean, What what is a conversion? I mean, ultimately we want spiritual ultimately we want spiritual ultimately we want spiritual conversions. We want people to say yes conversions. We want people to say yes conversions. We want people to say yes to Jesus. But a website conversion is we to Jesus. But a website conversion is we to Jesus. But a website conversion is we have very specific things that we want a have very specific things that we want a have very specific things that we want a new visitor on our website to do to new visitor on our website to do to new visitor on our website to do to engage with us so that ultimately they engage with us so that ultimately they engage with us so that ultimately they will come through a front door the front will come through a front door the front will come through a front door the front door of our church building on Sunday door of our church building on Sunday door of our church building on Sunday morning. So if we have less traffic, we morning. So if we have less traffic, we morning. So if we have less traffic, we need to be much much more intentional need to be much much more intentional need to be much much more intentional with how we're leveraging the website.

with how we're leveraging the website. with how we're leveraging the website. It can't be a shotgun blast approach. we It can't be a shotgun blast approach. we It can't be a shotgun blast approach. we have to drill down on what is it that we have to drill down on what is it that we have to drill down on what is it that we want a new visitor to our website to do want a new visitor to our website to do want a new visitor to our website to do to make sure that they're getting the to make sure that they're getting the to make sure that they're getting the information that they need so that they information that they need so that they information that they need so that they can effectively plan their first visit can effectively plan their first visit can effectively plan their first visit with us and ultimately walk through our with us and ultimately walk through our with us and ultimately walk through our doors on Sunday morning. So, we have a doors on Sunday morning. So, we have a doors on Sunday morning. So, we have a few specific things that we're going to few specific things that we're going to few specific things that we're going to kind of tackle today. This isn't going kind of tackle today. This isn't going kind of tackle today. This isn't going to be probably as deep as it could be. to be probably as deep as it could be. to be probably as deep as it could be. And Jason and I are happy to get on a And Jason and I are happy to get on a And Jason and I are happy to get on a call with anyone who's listening to this call with anyone who's listening to this call with anyone who's listening to this podcast to do an audit, to walk through podcast to do an audit, to walk through podcast to do an audit, to walk through your website, to to give you more your website, to to give you more your website, to to give you more pointers and more specific directives. pointers and more specific directives. pointers and more specific directives. But for today, we're going to highlight But for today, we're going to highlight But for today, we're going to highlight a few specific things. The first thing, a few specific things. The first thing, a few specific things. The first thing, um, Jason, that we want to kind of talk um, Jason, that we want to kind of talk um, Jason, that we want to kind of talk through is like what are the most through is like what are the most through is like what are the most important things, what are the things important things, what are the things important things, what are the things that in the first 60 seconds a person that in the first 60 seconds a person that in the first 60 seconds a person needs to be able to find on a church's needs to be able to find on a church's needs to be able to find on a church's website? website? website? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I read a book years >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I read a book years >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I read a book years ago called Don't Make Me Think, and it ago called Don't Make Me Think, and it ago called Don't Make Me Think, and it was it had to do with websites and the was it had to do with websites and the was it had to do with websites and the fact that sometimes we just confuse fact that sometimes we just confuse fact that sometimes we just confuse people because we think we know what people because we think we know what people because we think we know what they want versus we're not putting they want versus we're not putting they want versus we're not putting ourselves into their shoes from their ourselves into their shoes from their ourselves into their shoes from their eyes and their perspective. So, I mean, eyes and their perspective. So, I mean, eyes and their perspective. So, I mean, obviously some some really easy ones are obviously some some really easy ones are obviously some some really easy ones are your service times, what time do you your service times, what time do you your service times, what time do you meet, you know, and location. And then meet, you know, and location. And then meet, you know, and location. And then what I think we we kind of move past is what I think we we kind of move past is what I think we we kind of move past is what to expect. You know, I'm a big big what to expect. You know, I'm a big big what to expect. You know, I'm a big big fan of an FAQ section. And I'm I'm not fan of an FAQ section. And I'm I'm not fan of an FAQ section. And I'm I'm not saying put an FAQ above the fold, but I saying put an FAQ above the fold, but I saying put an FAQ above the fold, but I think we we want to have some links for think we we want to have some links for think we we want to have some links for somebody to see what time your services, somebody to see what time your services, somebody to see what time your services, where y'all located, what to expect. I'd where y'all located, what to expect. I'd where y'all located, what to expect. I'd also probably add one more thing is uh

also probably add one more thing is uh also probably add one more thing is uh tell me like who goes to your church? tell me like who goes to your church? tell me like who goes to your church? Are those my people in a sense? Would I Are those my people in a sense? Would I Are those my people in a sense? Would I fit in? You know, if I'm a younger fit in? You know, if I'm a younger fit in? You know, if I'm a younger family, do I see other younger families family, do I see other younger families family, do I see other younger families in this church? or if I'm an older in this church? or if I'm an older in this church? or if I'm an older person, you know, you got to make sure person, you know, you got to make sure person, you know, you got to make sure that you're thinking through that about that you're thinking through that about that you're thinking through that about what you're putting on that homepage, what you're putting on that homepage, what you're putting on that homepage, especially above the fold for that user especially above the fold for that user especially above the fold for that user to really see what they can uh what they to really see what they can uh what they to really see what they can uh what they what you want them to see and and can what you want them to see and and can what you want them to see and and can they engage and they find themselves they engage and they find themselves they engage and they find themselves going, I like what I see here. going, I like what I see here. going, I like what I see here. >> Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about >> Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about >> Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about photos and and the types of photos that photos and and the types of photos that photos and and the types of photos that churches should use on websites. But I churches should use on websites. But I churches should use on websites. But I can't I it blows my mind sometimes how can't I it blows my mind sometimes how can't I it blows my mind sometimes how often I end up on a church's website and often I end up on a church's website and often I end up on a church's website and the name of the city is nowhere on the the name of the city is nowhere on the the name of the city is nowhere on the homepage. Like you might have to go all homepage. Like you might have to go all homepage. Like you might have to go all the way down to the footer to find an the way down to the footer to find an the way down to the footer to find an address and even sometimes address and even sometimes address and even sometimes >> that's not even obvious. And so like >> that's not even obvious. And so like >> that's not even obvious. And so like really as a church leader you need to go really as a church leader you need to go really as a church leader you need to go through your website and look at it with through your website and look at it with through your website and look at it with an outsider's eyes. Um, in fact, you can an outsider's eyes. Um, in fact, you can an outsider's eyes. Um, in fact, you can actually use AI to do that. You can actually use AI to do that. You can actually use AI to do that. You can paste your uh URL into Claude or Chad paste your uh URL into Claude or Chad paste your uh URL into Claude or Chad GBT and actually ask it to audit your GBT and actually ask it to audit your GBT and actually ask it to audit your website from an outsers's perspective.

website from an outsers's perspective. website from an outsers's perspective. It It's pretty interesting to see what It It's pretty interesting to see what It It's pretty interesting to see what kind of information that you can get. kind of information that you can get. kind of information that you can get. But I think you're right. I mean, But I think you're right. I mean, But I think you're right. I mean, service times and location are really, service times and location are really, service times and location are really, really critical on the homepage. really critical on the homepage. really critical on the homepage. >> No. Um, and you said this. I think when >> No. Um, and you said this. I think when >> No. Um, and you said this. I think when you don't uh talk to people that you are you don't uh talk to people that you are you don't uh talk to people that you are expecting to to meet eventually on a expecting to to meet eventually on a expecting to to meet eventually on a Sunday, you're quietly saying, "We're Sunday, you're quietly saying, "We're Sunday, you're quietly saying, "We're not really expecting new guests." not really expecting new guests." not really expecting new guests." >> Think about that, guys. Think about >> Think about that, guys. Think about >> Think about that, guys. Think about that. Is your website so full of insider that. Is your website so full of insider that. Is your website so full of insider information that you're like, "Well, we information that you're like, "Well, we information that you're like, "Well, we don't really optimize for new guests don't really optimize for new guests don't really optimize for new guests because we're not expecting them." or because we're not expecting them." or because we're not expecting them." or are you is your website fully focused on are you is your website fully focused on are you is your website fully focused on the one over the 99? the one over the 99? the one over the 99? >> And and that's [clears throat] a I mean, >> And and that's [clears throat] a I mean, >> And and that's [clears throat] a I mean, you got to look at your website through you got to look at your website through you got to look at your website through that lens. If you don't, you're you're that lens. If you don't, you're you're that lens. If you don't, you're you're you're really missing out on this you're really missing out on this you're really missing out on this potentially really large opportunity to potentially really large opportunity to potentially really large opportunity to connect with it. Like Bart said at the connect with it. Like Bart said at the connect with it. Like Bart said at the top of this thing, our traffic's getting top of this thing, our traffic's getting top of this thing, our traffic's getting less and less organically, right? less and less organically, right? less and less organically, right? They're getting all their information in They're getting all their information in They're getting all their information in AI. So, we better make sure we hit a AI. So, we better make sure we hit a AI. So, we better make sure we hit a home run almost every time we can with home run almost every time we can with home run almost every time we can with the content and and the verbiage and um the content and and the verbiage and um the content and and the verbiage and um uh well, the verbiage and content, same uh well, the verbiage and content, same uh well, the verbiage and content, same thing. And the imagery and just the the thing. And the imagery and just the the thing. And the imagery and just the the the brand of your church on that the brand of your church on that the brand of your church on that homepage.

homepage. homepage. >> Yeah. I I love that way the way you said >> Yeah. I I love that way the way you said >> Yeah. I I love that way the way you said that, Jason. You know, if we if if the that, Jason. You know, if we if if the that, Jason. You know, if we if if the we make the information too difficult we make the information too difficult we make the information too difficult for people to find or we're not for people to find or we're not for people to find or we're not providing them what they're actually providing them what they're actually providing them what they're actually looking for, it communicates to them looking for, it communicates to them looking for, it communicates to them that we don't have a place for them. And that we don't have a place for them. And that we don't have a place for them. And that's the opposite of what we want to that's the opposite of what we want to that's the opposite of what we want to communicate. I I was on a let's talk communicate. I I was on a let's talk communicate. I I was on a let's talk about photos for just a second because about photos for just a second because about photos for just a second because you you hit on that a m ago. You said you you hit on that a m ago. You said you you hit on that a m ago. You said people are asking that question. Am I people are asking that question. Am I people are asking that question. Am I going to fit in? Does this are there are going to fit in? Does this are there are going to fit in? Does this are there are there people there like me? I was on a there people there like me? I was on a there people there like me? I was on a church's website this morning. Their church's website this morning. Their church's website this morning. Their homepage had two pictures of their homepage had two pictures of their homepage had two pictures of their building and a picture of a Bible on the building and a picture of a Bible on the building and a picture of a Bible on the homepage. That was it. Um I was talking homepage. That was it. Um I was talking homepage. That was it. Um I was talking to the pastor and I was like I don't to the pastor and I was like I don't to the pastor and I was like I don't even know how many like is your church a even know how many like is your church a even know how many like is your church a big church, a small church? Like I mean big church, a small church? Like I mean big church, a small church? Like I mean it's a big building. How many people it's a big building. How many people it's a big building. How many people attend your church? Is it young, old, attend your church? Is it young, old, attend your church? Is it young, old, white, multi-thnic? Like I I can't tell white, multi-thnic? Like I I can't tell white, multi-thnic? Like I I can't tell anything about your church because all anything about your church because all anything about your church because all you have on here is a couple pictures of you have on here is a couple pictures of you have on here is a couple pictures of the building and a picture of the Bible, the building and a picture of the Bible, the building and a picture of the Bible, >> which tells me what you value. You value >> which tells me what you value. You value >> which tells me what you value. You value the Bible. You value your building. the Bible. You value your building. the Bible. You value your building. Jesus values people, right? He came and Jesus values people, right? He came and Jesus values people, right? He came and died for the lost, uh, which is all of died for the lost, uh, which is all of died for the lost, uh, which is all of us. He died for people. God so loved the us. He died for people. God so loved the us. He died for people. God so loved the world, the people. And so, we want to world, the people. And so, we want to world, the people. And so, we want to share that same story on the homepage.

share that same story on the homepage. share that same story on the homepage. Well, all the pages of our website. But Well, all the pages of our website. But Well, all the pages of our website. But let's start with the homepage because let's start with the homepage because let's start with the homepage because this is what we're talking about that this is what we're talking about that this is what we're talking about that user experience. What kind of photos are user experience. What kind of photos are user experience. What kind of photos are you looking for on a on a church's you looking for on a on a church's you looking for on a on a church's homepage, Jason? homepage, Jason? homepage, Jason? >> You know, um well, if I look if I >> You know, um well, if I look if I >> You know, um well, if I look if I visited your church and I walk through visited your church and I walk through visited your church and I walk through I'm looking at the lobby, right? Before I'm looking at the lobby, right? Before I'm looking at the lobby, right? Before service, after service, and I'm just service, after service, and I'm just service, after service, and I'm just looking around the lobby, who am I looking around the lobby, who am I looking around the lobby, who am I seeing and what are these people doing, seeing and what are these people doing, seeing and what are these people doing, right? And and that's the those are the right? And and that's the those are the right? And and that's the those are the kind of photos that I want on the kind of photos that I want on the kind of photos that I want on the website. Why? Because the back of heads, website. Why? Because the back of heads, website. Why? Because the back of heads, if I I see a lot of church websites have if I I see a lot of church websites have if I I see a lot of church websites have a picture from the back of the worship a picture from the back of the worship a picture from the back of the worship center. Click and they're showing people center. Click and they're showing people center. Click and they're showing people maybe there's a hand raised, but it's maybe there's a hand raised, but it's maybe there's a hand raised, but it's the back of their heads. You have no the back of their heads. You have no the back of their heads. You have no idea if these people are having a good idea if these people are having a good idea if these people are having a good time or not. Maybe they're asking time or not. Maybe they're asking time or not. Maybe they're asking questions. I I [laughter] questions. I I [laughter] questions. I I [laughter] always say it looks like everybody has a always say it looks like everybody has a always say it looks like everybody has a question to ask. question to ask. question to ask. >> Yeah. You can't tell emotion from >> Yeah. You can't tell emotion from >> Yeah. You can't tell emotion from somebody's back. You want to see what's somebody's back. You want to see what's somebody's back. You want to see what's on their face. You want to read the on their face. You want to read the on their face. You want to read the emotion on their face. Are they smiling? emotion on their face. Are they smiling? emotion on their face. Are they smiling? Are they laughing? Do they look like Are they laughing? Do they look like Are they laughing? Do they look like they're having a good time? Are they they're having a good time? Are they they're having a good time? Are they hanging out? I I love it when I see, you hanging out? I I love it when I see, you hanging out? I I love it when I see, you know, a couple of guys just having know, a couple of guys just having know, a couple of guys just having conversations and they're they're not conversations and they're they're not conversations and they're they're not they don't look bored. They look like they don't look bored. They look like they don't look bored. They look like they're having a good time, right? Or they're having a good time, right? Or they're having a good time, right? Or you see four or five ladies and they're you see four or five ladies and they're you see four or five ladies and they're giggling and laughing. That's the those giggling and laughing. That's the those giggling and laughing. That's the those people look like they have joy in their people look like they have joy in their people look like they have joy in their life because they do. And they're at life because they do. And they're at life because they do. And they're at church and they're hanging out. That church and they're hanging out. That church and they're hanging out. That should be the that should be the the should be the that should be the the should be the that should be the the atmosphere around your around your atmosphere around your around your atmosphere around your around your campus on a Sunday morning. And I want campus on a Sunday morning. And I want campus on a Sunday morning. And I want to capture that. Those are the pictures to capture that. Those are the pictures to capture that. Those are the pictures I want to see. I want to see myself in I want to see. I want to see myself in I want to see. I want to see myself in that. And by the way, I think there's that. And by the way, I think there's that. And by the way, I think there's some FOMO that we also want to try and some FOMO that we also want to try and some FOMO that we also want to try and capture here. You want people to go, you

capture here. You want people to go, you capture here. You want people to go, you know, I've been I really want friends know, I've been I really want friends know, I've been I really want friends like that. I I I wish I had a marriage like that. I I I wish I had a marriage like that. I I I wish I had a marriage like that. I I wish my kids were hanging like that. I I wish my kids were hanging like that. I I wish my kids were hanging out with mom and dad, right? You want to out with mom and dad, right? You want to out with mom and dad, right? You want to create some of that FOMO. And that's so create some of that FOMO. And that's so create some of that FOMO. And that's so important, I think, in in terms of important, I think, in in terms of important, I think, in in terms of getting somebody to psychologically go, getting somebody to psychologically go, getting somebody to psychologically go, I want to be there. If you don't have if I want to be there. If you don't have if I want to be there. If you don't have if you have a picture of your of a Bible, you have a picture of your of a Bible, you have a picture of your of a Bible, which I love the Bible, okay, we're not which I love the Bible, okay, we're not which I love the Bible, okay, we're not talking about that. We love love the talking about that. We love love the talking about that. We love love the Bible, but if it's a picture of a Bible Bible, but if it's a picture of a Bible Bible, but if it's a picture of a Bible and a picture of a building, that brings and a picture of a building, that brings and a picture of a building, that brings no emotion other than I I don't I get I no emotion other than I I don't I get I no emotion other than I I don't I get I don't even know what to do with that. don't even know what to do with that. don't even know what to do with that. Yeah, I read the Bible. Oh, you guys Yeah, I read the Bible. Oh, you guys Yeah, I read the Bible. Oh, you guys teach the Bible. Check, but that's all I teach the Bible. Check, but that's all I teach the Bible. Check, but that's all I got because I don't really care about a got because I don't really care about a got because I don't really care about a building. I think it was Leonardu who building. I think it was Leonardu who building. I think it was Leonardu who back in back in the early 2000s wrote a back in back in the early 2000s wrote a back in back in the early 2000s wrote a lot of best-selling books for the church lot of best-selling books for the church lot of best-selling books for the church and he used the phrase uh image rich to and he used the phrase uh image rich to and he used the phrase uh image rich to describe the culture that we're trying describe the culture that we're trying describe the culture that we're trying to reach. The culture that we're trying to reach. The culture that we're trying to reach. The culture that we're trying to reach is is influenced by images to reach is is influenced by images to reach is is influenced by images which is why Instagram became such a big which is why Instagram became such a big which is why Instagram became such a big hit when Instagram came out right tell a hit when Instagram came out right tell a hit when Instagram came out right tell a story. Picture paints a thousand words, story. Picture paints a thousand words, story. Picture paints a thousand words, right? Or whatever whatever that phrase right? Or whatever whatever that phrase right? Or whatever whatever that phrase is there. Picture is worth a thousand is there. Picture is worth a thousand is there. Picture is worth a thousand words. And so I I think you're you're words. And so I I think you're you're words. And so I I think you're you're you're you're right on, Jason. I think you're you're right on, Jason. I think you're you're right on, Jason. I think we need to look at our website and we need to look at our website and we need to look at our website and evaluate what is the story that my evaluate what is the story that my evaluate what is the story that my photos tell. I I was on a call with a photos tell. I I was on a call with a photos tell. I I was on a call with a church uh in in your neck of the woods church uh in in your neck of the woods church uh in in your neck of the woods there in the Phoenix area a couple of there in the Phoenix area a couple of there in the Phoenix area a couple of years ago. And I remember the pastor as years ago. And I remember the pastor as years ago. And I remember the pastor as I was getting to know the the church and I was getting to know the the church and I was getting to know the the church and the pastor, he said, you know, our the pastor, he said, you know, our the pastor, he said, you know, our church is not they're not a huge church.

church is not they're not a huge church. church is not they're not a huge church. They're a decentsized church, you know, They're a decentsized church, you know, They're a decentsized church, you know, mid-size church. He said, "But we really mid-size church. He said, "But we really mid-size church. He said, "But we really don't want people to think that, you don't want people to think that, you don't want people to think that, you know, we're not it's not like a rock know, we're not it's not like a rock know, we're not it's not like a rock experience, a wor like a concert experience, a wor like a concert experience, a wor like a concert experience that we have on Sunday experience that we have on Sunday experience that we have on Sunday morning and that's not the the ethos morning and that's not the the ethos morning and that's not the the ethos that we're trying to create. We've got that we're trying to create. We've got that we're trying to create. We've got other churches in the community that do other churches in the community that do other churches in the community that do that and we're different." And I said, that and we're different." And I said, that and we're different." And I said, "But why is the main photo on your "But why is the main photo on your "But why is the main photo on your homepage of your website of the worship homepage of your website of the worship homepage of your website of the worship band on the stage if that's not what band on the stage if that's not what band on the stage if that's not what you're trying to convey?" He's like, "Oh you're trying to convey?" He's like, "Oh you're trying to convey?" He's like, "Oh my goodness, I never thought about it my goodness, I never thought about it my goodness, I never thought about it that way." Of course you didn't think that way." Of course you didn't think that way." Of course you didn't think about it that way. You It's just a great about it that way. You It's just a great about it that way. You It's just a great photo. It's a fantastic photo. Whoever photo. It's a fantastic photo. Whoever photo. It's a fantastic photo. Whoever took the photo captured a great moment. took the photo captured a great moment. took the photo captured a great moment. It's a it's an attractive photo, but It's a it's an attractive photo, but It's a it's an attractive photo, but it's not the ethos that you're trying to it's not the ethos that you're trying to it's not the ethos that you're trying to communicate about your church, right? communicate about your church, right? communicate about your church, right? So, I'm really big on body life photos. So, I'm really big on body life photos. So, I'm really big on body life photos. What is body life in your church? Maybe What is body life in your church? Maybe What is body life in your church? Maybe it's small groups. Maybe it's fellowship it's small groups. Maybe it's fellowship it's small groups. Maybe it's fellowship engagements. Maybe it's mission trips. engagements. Maybe it's mission trips. engagements. Maybe it's mission trips. Maybe it's local service activities. Maybe it's local service activities. Maybe it's local service activities. Maybe you have a food pantry or you're Maybe you have a food pantry or you're Maybe you have a food pantry or you're building a house for Habitat for building a house for Habitat for building a house for Habitat for Humanity. What are the stories that you Humanity. What are the stories that you Humanity. What are the stories that you really want to tell? A lot of times really want to tell? A lot of times really want to tell? A lot of times you're using those photos on social you're using those photos on social you're using those photos on social media but not using them on your media but not using them on your media but not using them on your website. Use your website, use big photo website. Use your website, use big photo website. Use your website, use big photo containers on the homepage of your containers on the homepage of your containers on the homepage of your website to tell the story of what body website to tell the story of what body website to tell the story of what body life is like in your church, not just life is like in your church, not just life is like in your church, not just the worship experience, the 65, 75 the worship experience, the 65, 75 the worship experience, the 65, 75 minutes in the worship center on Sunday minutes in the worship center on Sunday minutes in the worship center on Sunday morning, but really try to capture what morning, but really try to capture what morning, but really try to capture what your community looks like.

your community looks like. your community looks like. >> Yeah, totally. And and you know, I also >> Yeah, totally. And and you know, I also >> Yeah, totally. And and you know, I also just I don't see a whole lot of pictures just I don't see a whole lot of pictures just I don't see a whole lot of pictures engaging photos on a homepage, right? engaging photos on a homepage, right? engaging photos on a homepage, right? that you got one chance, a quick chance that you got one chance, a quick chance that you got one chance, a quick chance to make a great impression for that to make a great impression for that to make a great impression for that person who's thinking about coming to person who's thinking about coming to person who's thinking about coming to your church. You better put all kinds of your church. You better put all kinds of your church. You better put all kinds of great photos on there. We don't have great photos on there. We don't have great photos on there. We don't have great photos. You work on a strategy to great photos. You work on a strategy to great photos. You work on a strategy to get them, right? Work on a strategy. If get them, right? Work on a strategy. If get them, right? Work on a strategy. If you have to hire a photographer or you you have to hire a photographer or you you have to hire a photographer or you got to recruit some people in your got to recruit some people in your got to recruit some people in your church, church, church, >> get some good photos. We build a lot of >> get some good photos. We build a lot of >> get some good photos. We build a lot of church websites and the very first thing church websites and the very first thing church websites and the very first thing we tell churches is, "Okay, we're we tell churches is, "Okay, we're we tell churches is, "Okay, we're getting ready to start this website. getting ready to start this website. getting ready to start this website. Go get your photos, right? Go get fresh Go get your photos, right? Go get fresh Go get your photos, right? Go get fresh ones. Go get new ones. Get seasonal ones. Go get new ones. Get seasonal ones. Go get new ones. Get seasonal ones. You just got to be really ones. You just got to be really ones. You just got to be really intentional about this because it's it's intentional about this because it's it's intentional about this because it's it's that important that you are so right in that important that you are so right in that important that you are so right in that images do the emotional work. Copy that images do the emotional work. Copy that images do the emotional work. Copy can't. can't. can't. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I can look at a photo and boom, I can >> I can look at a photo and boom, I can >> I can look at a photo and boom, I can see myself if I'm if I fit in or not. see myself if I'm if I fit in or not. see myself if I'm if I fit in or not. >> Yeah. So, you know, we we've talked a >> Yeah. So, you know, we we've talked a >> Yeah. So, you know, we we've talked a lot about AI. We will continue to talk a lot about AI. We will continue to talk a lot about AI. We will continue to talk a lot about AI because it really is lot about AI because it really is lot about AI because it really is disrupting the way that search works. disrupting the way that search works. disrupting the way that search works. But here's the deal.

But here's the deal. But here's the deal. The messaging in AI can never really The messaging in AI can never really The messaging in AI can never really communicate the ethos and the culture of communicate the ethos and the culture of communicate the ethos and the culture of your church. Right? I can do an AI your church. Right? I can do an AI your church. Right? I can do an AI search in Chat GBT and it can tell me search in Chat GBT and it can tell me search in Chat GBT and it can tell me things about your church, but it's things about your church, but it's things about your church, but it's really going to tell me facts, maybe really going to tell me facts, maybe really going to tell me facts, maybe sentiment about your church based on sentiment about your church based on sentiment about your church based on reviews or other things that people have reviews or other things that people have reviews or other things that people have written. But until I go to your church written. But until I go to your church written. But until I go to your church website, I really can't know what the website, I really can't know what the website, I really can't know what the experience is going to be like. Which is experience is going to be like. Which is experience is going to be like. Which is really why the website needs to be really why the website needs to be really why the website needs to be differentiated from the factual differentiated from the factual differentiated from the factual information that people can find in AI. information that people can find in AI. information that people can find in AI. It needs to contain the factual It needs to contain the factual It needs to contain the factual information otherwise the large language information otherwise the large language information otherwise the large language models can't find it. It needs to be models can't find it. It needs to be models can't find it. It needs to be optimized for the large language models optimized for the large language models optimized for the large language models so that they can find that information. so that they can find that information. so that they can find that information. But ultimately, you need that But ultimately, you need that But ultimately, you need that experience, that user experience on the experience, that user experience on the experience, that user experience on the website to lead a person on a journey to website to lead a person on a journey to website to lead a person on a journey to find answers to the questions that find answers to the questions that find answers to the questions that they're looking for and to really get they're looking for and to really get they're looking for and to really get that emotional connection, that that emotional connection, that that emotional connection, that emotional attach to u to who you are as emotional attach to u to who you are as emotional attach to u to who you are as a church and and and what your community a church and and and what your community a church and and and what your community is like. Now, is like. Now, is like. Now, >> we've probably already hit on some of >> we've probably already hit on some of >> we've probably already hit on some of these things already, Jason, but what these things already, Jason, but what these things already, Jason, but what are some of the common mistakes are some of the common mistakes are some of the common mistakes >> that when you're looking at a church >> that when you're looking at a church >> that when you're looking at a church website, you see things that people go website, you see things that people go website, you see things that people go and you're like, "This this makes this and you're like, "This this makes this and you're like, "This this makes this website feel a either more like a website feel a either more like a website feel a either more like a brochure about your church or it's just brochure about your church or it's just brochure about your church or it's just too inward focused." What are some of too inward focused." What are some of too inward focused." What are some of the things that you see on websites that the things that you see on websites that the things that you see on websites that say, "Hey, it's too much of a brochure say, "Hey, it's too much of a brochure say, "Hey, it's too much of a brochure or it's or it's too inward focused." No.

or it's or it's too inward focused." No. or it's or it's too inward focused." No. >> Um, often so we get kind of lost in the >> Um, often so we get kind of lost in the >> Um, often so we get kind of lost in the because we let our inside people because we let our inside people because we let our inside people influence influence influence what we should put on our website. what we should put on our website. what we should put on our website. I can't find anything. You know, you I can't find anything. You know, you I can't find anything. You know, you hear that all the time. Where's that hear that all the time. Where's that hear that all the time. Where's that event? And we then go, "Oh gosh, we event? And we then go, "Oh gosh, we event? And we then go, "Oh gosh, we better optimize our site for the 99, better optimize our site for the 99, better optimize our site for the 99, right?" And we lose sight of this stuff, right?" And we lose sight of this stuff, right?" And we lose sight of this stuff, especially on the homepage. And so I I'm especially on the homepage. And so I I'm especially on the homepage. And so I I'm going to this is going to sound really going to this is going to sound really going to this is going to sound really offensive, so I apologize, but nobody offensive, so I apologize, but nobody offensive, so I apologize, but nobody cares about your mission statement cares about your mission statement cares about your mission statement outside your church. No one. They don't outside your church. No one. They don't outside your church. No one. They don't care. What they care about is what do care. What they care about is what do care. What they care about is what do you have to offer me and my family. And you have to offer me and my family. And you have to offer me and my family. And I'm a big fan of of U. Donald Miller of I'm a big fan of of U. Donald Miller of I'm a big fan of of U. Donald Miller of his of his book, Building a Story Brand. his of his book, Building a Story Brand. his of his book, Building a Story Brand. Right? So there you go. Go get that book Right? So there you go. Go get that book Right? So there you go. Go get that book if you've not read that book before. You if you've not read that book before. You if you've not read that book before. You should follow the principles of that should follow the principles of that should follow the principles of that book when you're creating your homepage book when you're creating your homepage book when you're creating your homepage because you really want to speak to the because you really want to speak to the because you really want to speak to the one. Now, I love your mission statement, one. Now, I love your mission statement, one. Now, I love your mission statement, don't get me wrong, but if you're going don't get me wrong, but if you're going don't get me wrong, but if you're going to have to have your mission statement to have to have your mission statement to have to have your mission statement on your homepage, that mission statement on your homepage, that mission statement on your homepage, that mission statement is all about us. Our mission, we us, not is all about us. Our mission, we us, not is all about us. Our mission, we us, not about you. And so, I would I would just about you. And so, I would I would just about you. And so, I would I would just reward it to say we want to help you reward it to say we want to help you reward it to say we want to help you discover who Jesus is and find friends discover who Jesus is and find friends discover who Jesus is and find friends to do life with in community. Welcome to to do life with in community. Welcome to to do life with in community. Welcome to Sunday. We can't wait to meet you.

Sunday. We can't wait to meet you. Sunday. We can't wait to meet you. right? You're same mission statement right? You're same mission statement right? You're same mission statement rewarded for an external, right? And rewarded for an external, right? And rewarded for an external, right? And somebody who's not yet a part of your of somebody who's not yet a part of your of somebody who's not yet a part of your of your church. And so we make a big your church. And so we make a big your church. And so we make a big mistake of of using a lot of insider mistake of of using a lot of insider mistake of of using a lot of insider language and a lot of church jargon that language and a lot of church jargon that language and a lot of church jargon that quite I mean most are like sacred cows, quite I mean most are like sacred cows, quite I mean most are like sacred cows, right? We just can't get rid of them. right? We just can't get rid of them. right? We just can't get rid of them. And so be really careful about that. Um And so be really careful about that. Um And so be really careful about that. Um about and I when I coach churches on about and I when I coach churches on about and I when I coach churches on this, I'm trying to speak to the one this, I'm trying to speak to the one this, I'm trying to speak to the one who's furthest from God. somebody who's who's furthest from God. somebody who's who's furthest from God. somebody who's maybe never been to church before except maybe never been to church before except maybe never been to church before except for maybe a funeral or a wedding, right? for maybe a funeral or a wedding, right? for maybe a funeral or a wedding, right? And so their idea of church is basically And so their idea of church is basically And so their idea of church is basically from TV shows, right? That they have no from TV shows, right? That they have no from TV shows, right? That they have no clue. And so we have to speak to that clue. And so we have to speak to that clue. And so we have to speak to that person. And if you can go all the way person. And if you can go all the way person. And if you can go all the way there, you're going to cover everybody there, you're going to cover everybody there, you're going to cover everybody else who has been to church before, but else who has been to church before, but else who has been to church before, but maybe it's been a little while since maybe it's been a little while since maybe it's been a little while since they've been to church before. So go all they've been to church before. So go all they've been to church before. So go all the way there. Those are the people the way there. Those are the people the way there. Those are the people we're trying to reach for Jesus, right? we're trying to reach for Jesus, right? we're trying to reach for Jesus, right? And I think that's really really And I think that's really really And I think that's really really important. So we often will build our important. So we often will build our important. So we often will build our homepage for our members homepage for our members homepage for our members and I just don't I'm I'm really cautious and I just don't I'm I'm really cautious and I just don't I'm I'm really cautious about that guys. You you don't want to about that guys. You you don't want to about that guys. You you don't want to use you know that kind of stuff. Um use you know that kind of stuff. Um use you know that kind of stuff. Um login for members that's like that's an login for members that's like that's an login for members that's like that's an exclusive club that I don't belong to. I exclusive club that I don't belong to. I exclusive club that I don't belong to. I guess I'm an outsider. I think I'm not guess I'm an outsider. I think I'm not guess I'm an outsider. I think I'm not going to go there.

going to go there. going to go there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if the uh the give button >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if the uh the give button >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if the uh the give button is more prominent than the plan and is more prominent than the plan and is more prominent than the plan and visit button that communicates something visit button that communicates something visit button that communicates something to the people who are visiting your to the people who are visiting your to the people who are visiting your website. Here's another one that I I website. Here's another one that I I website. Here's another one that I I it's this is a really um it's a really it's this is a really um it's a really it's this is a really um it's a really tricky one because churches can be tricky one because churches can be tricky one because churches can be churches can be really really creative churches can be really really creative churches can be really really creative communities and oftentimes we get communities and oftentimes we get communities and oftentimes we get creative with the way that we name creative with the way that we name creative with the way that we name ministries and then we use the names of ministries and then we use the names of ministries and then we use the names of our ministries on our website rather our ministries on our website rather our ministries on our website rather than real descriptors about what they than real descriptors about what they than real descriptors about what they actually are. So maybe you've got a name actually are. So maybe you've got a name actually are. So maybe you've got a name for your children's ministry or a name for your children's ministry or a name for your children's ministry or a name for your student ministry or a name for for your student ministry or a name for for your student ministry or a name for some sort of uh community counseling some sort of uh community counseling some sort of uh community counseling men's group, women's group, and we give men's group, women's group, and we give men's group, women's group, and we give them all these names and you've got, you them all these names and you've got, you them all these names and you've got, you know, Swizzle and Craft and like I don't know, Swizzle and Craft and like I don't know, Swizzle and Craft and like I don't even know Nifty Knitters or whatever. It even know Nifty Knitters or whatever. It even know Nifty Knitters or whatever. It doesn't tell I guess that one actually doesn't tell I guess that one actually doesn't tell I guess that one actually tells you what it is. It's it's from tells you what it is. It's it's from tells you what it is. It's it's from knitts. But but you know, call your knitts. But but you know, call your knitts. But but you know, call your children's ministry children's ministry. children's ministry children's ministry. children's ministry children's ministry. Call your student ministry student Call your student ministry student Call your student ministry student ministry. Call your men's ministry men's ministry. Call your men's ministry men's ministry. Call your men's ministry men's ministry. Call your women's ministry ministry. Call your women's ministry ministry. Call your women's ministry women's ministry. Not necessarily saying women's ministry. Not necessarily saying women's ministry. Not necessarily saying that you can't use branded concepts in that you can't use branded concepts in that you can't use branded concepts in the context of your church. But when it the context of your church. But when it the context of your church. But when it comes to your website, number one, help comes to your website, number one, help comes to your website, number one, help the user find what they're looking for the user find what they're looking for the user find what they're looking for by putting the cookies on the bottom by putting the cookies on the bottom by putting the cookies on the bottom shelf. Make it super obvious and easy shelf. Make it super obvious and easy shelf. Make it super obvious and easy what you're communicating to them. Oh, what you're communicating to them. Oh, what you're communicating to them. Oh, and by the way, the large language and by the way, the large language and by the way, the large language models like Chat GBT, they don't know models like Chat GBT, they don't know models like Chat GBT, they don't know what Swizzle is either. It's your high what Swizzle is either. It's your high what Swizzle is either. It's your high school ministry. I just made that up.

school ministry. I just made that up. school ministry. I just made that up. I've never heard a church that had I've never heard a church that had I've never heard a church that had Swizzle as their high school ministry. Swizzle as their high school ministry. Swizzle as their high school ministry. They should copyright that one. Swizzle They should copyright that one. Swizzle They should copyright that one. Swizzle sounds cool. I join a ministry called sounds cool. I join a ministry called sounds cool. I join a ministry called Swizzle. I don't even know what it is, Swizzle. I don't even know what it is, Swizzle. I don't even know what it is, but I should join it. Swizzle students, but I should join it. Swizzle students, but I should join it. Swizzle students, right? I don't know. Anyway, the point right? I don't know. Anyway, the point right? I don't know. Anyway, the point is, is, is, >> make sure that your website is making it >> make sure that your website is making it >> make sure that your website is making it the road map really easy for people to the road map really easy for people to the road map really easy for people to find what they're looking for. Um, find what they're looking for. Um, find what they're looking for. Um, before we drift off of this though, before we drift off of this though, before we drift off of this though, Jason, I said something. I said your uh Jason, I said something. I said your uh Jason, I said something. I said your uh plan of visit button should be more plan of visit button should be more plan of visit button should be more prominent than your give button. Why prominent than your give button. Why prominent than your give button. Why don't you talk a little bit about the don't you talk a little bit about the don't you talk a little bit about the plan of visit journey or the plan of plan of visit journey or the plan of plan of visit journey or the plan of visit experience for new users? visit experience for new users? visit experience for new users? >> Well, first of all, so >> Well, first of all, so >> Well, first of all, so often when when somebody gets to a often when when somebody gets to a often when when somebody gets to a website, you may catch yourself doing website, you may catch yourself doing website, you may catch yourself doing this. You look right there at the above this. You look right there at the above this. You look right there at the above the fold. Everybody knows what I'm the fold. Everybody knows what I'm the fold. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Above the fold is talking about. Above the fold is talking about. Above the fold is newspapers. Old people who know newspapers. Old people who know newspapers. Old people who know newspapers, it's like folded in half. So newspapers, it's like folded in half. So newspapers, it's like folded in half. So the most important real estate in a the most important real estate in a the most important real estate in a newspaper is above the fold the the top newspaper is above the fold the the top newspaper is above the fold the the top part of the fold of the front page of part of the fold of the front page of part of the fold of the front page of the newspaper. Same thing with your the newspaper. Same thing with your the newspaper. Same thing with your website above very very top part of your website above very very top part of your website above very very top part of your homepage. And so what happens is people homepage. And so what happens is people homepage. And so what happens is people look at that and their eyes look at that and their eyes look at that and their eyes automatically go up into the right. And automatically go up into the right. And automatically go up into the right. And if we build a website for the one over if we build a website for the one over if we build a website for the one over the 99, the very button I see is give.

the 99, the very button I see is give. the 99, the very button I see is give. Welcome to our church. Welcome to our church. Welcome to our church. And my goodness, people, I'm telling And my goodness, people, I'm telling And my goodness, people, I'm telling you, if you move that button down like you, if you move that button down like you, if you move that button down like to the footer or maybe it's it maybe to the footer or maybe it's it maybe to the footer or maybe it's it maybe it's a little bit further inside. It's it's a little bit further inside. It's it's a little bit further inside. It's not the very you might have four or five not the very you might have four or five not the very you might have four or five different tabs at the top. Make that one different tabs at the top. Make that one different tabs at the top. Make that one of the gives, but don't put it to the of the gives, but don't put it to the of the gives, but don't put it to the far right. You're not going to your far right. You're not going to your far right. You're not going to your giving is not going to go down. giving is not going to go down. giving is not going to go down. Somebody's not going to be all Somebody's not going to be all Somebody's not going to be all frustrated because I didn't see that frustrated because I didn't see that frustrated because I didn't see that give button, so I just decided not to give button, so I just decided not to give button, so I just decided not to give. That's not going to go through give. That's not going to go through give. That's not going to go through people's minds who go to your church. people's minds who go to your church. people's minds who go to your church. Okay? That should be a plan your visit Okay? That should be a plan your visit Okay? That should be a plan your visit and that's forward thinking. I want you and that's forward thinking. I want you and that's forward thinking. I want you to I want you to plan your visit to come to I want you to plan your visit to come to I want you to plan your visit to come to our church. Make it really easy for to our church. Make it really easy for to our church. Make it really easy for people to learn about what it's like and people to learn about what it's like and people to learn about what it's like and you're actually telling people we're you're actually telling people we're you're actually telling people we're expecting you when you have a plan of expecting you when you have a plan of expecting you when you have a plan of visit. We are expecting you. This is visit. We are expecting you. This is visit. We are expecting you. This is what you do. This is what people here what you do. This is what people here what you do. This is what people here everybody plan their visit. Nana they're everybody plan their visit. Nana they're everybody plan their visit. Nana they're at our church. You're next. We can't at our church. You're next. We can't at our church. You're next. We can't wait to meet you this weekend. wait to meet you this weekend. wait to meet you this weekend. >> Yeah. So, I would put that button at the >> Yeah. So, I would put that button at the >> Yeah. So, I would put that button at the very very top. I'd also put it um in the very very top. I'd also put it um in the very very top. I'd also put it um in the folder after you have a really great folder after you have a really great folder after you have a really great catchy, you know, you know, God loves catchy, you know, you know, God loves catchy, you know, you know, God loves the real you. My churches use that. Or the real you. My churches use that. Or the real you. My churches use that. Or we can't wait to meet you this weekend.

we can't wait to meet you this weekend. we can't wait to meet you this weekend. Either watch button because that's Either watch button because that's Either watch button because that's probably what they're going to do if probably what they're going to do if probably what they're going to do if they have never been to your church they have never been to your church they have never been to your church before. And plan your visit might have before. And plan your visit might have before. And plan your visit might have two buttons right there. And that's what two buttons right there. And that's what two buttons right there. And that's what I would do. I I and there's a lot of I would do. I I and there's a lot of I would do. I I and there's a lot of different you got some really cool different you got some really cool different you got some really cool strategies, Bart, on the plan your visit strategies, Bart, on the plan your visit strategies, Bart, on the plan your visit type of landing page about what should type of landing page about what should type of landing page about what should go on that particular page. I really go on that particular page. I really go on that particular page. I really like what you've done with other like what you've done with other like what you've done with other churches that says, "Hey, let us send churches that says, "Hey, let us send churches that says, "Hey, let us send you an email so you can be prepared." you an email so you can be prepared." you an email so you can be prepared." All you're asking for is a simple email All you're asking for is a simple email All you're asking for is a simple email and then submit. All of a sudden, boom, and then submit. All of a sudden, boom, and then submit. All of a sudden, boom, that your system would send them an that your system would send them an that your system would send them an email maybe as a PDF where they could email maybe as a PDF where they could email maybe as a PDF where they could link to check in kids on their own time, link to check in kids on their own time, link to check in kids on their own time, what to wear, where to park, all that what to wear, where to park, all that what to wear, where to park, all that kind of stuff would be really, really kind of stuff would be really, really kind of stuff would be really, really cool. But you just gained a lead, cool. But you just gained a lead, cool. But you just gained a lead, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You can't look past that. That's huge. >> You can't look past that. That's huge. >> You can't look past that. That's huge. So, I mean, that's just off the top of So, I mean, that's just off the top of So, I mean, that's just off the top of my head on on above the fold. my head on on above the fold. my head on on above the fold. >> Yeah. I on that plan of visit page. This >> Yeah. I on that plan of visit page. This >> Yeah. I on that plan of visit page. This is the conversation that I have with is the conversation that I have with is the conversation that I have with churches often is that I implore you to churches often is that I implore you to churches often is that I implore you to treat your plan of visit page like a treat your plan of visit page like a treat your plan of visit page like a second homepage. So don't leave off the second homepage. So don't leave off the second homepage. So don't leave off the name of your church. Don't leave off name of your church. Don't leave off name of your church. Don't leave off surface times and locations. Don't make surface times and locations. Don't make surface times and locations. Don't make it feel like a secondary or tertiary it feel like a secondary or tertiary it feel like a secondary or tertiary page of the website. It will be it will page of the website. It will be it will page of the website. It will be it will be like a second homepage for the be like a second homepage for the be like a second homepage for the website. So the user experience needs to website. So the user experience needs to website. So the user experience needs to be just like it would on the homepage.

be just like it would on the homepage. be just like it would on the homepage. Share the story. Lots of pictures. Help Share the story. Lots of pictures. Help Share the story. Lots of pictures. Help me plan my visit. Know what to expect me plan my visit. Know what to expect me plan my visit. Know what to expect when I get there, where to park, what when I get there, where to park, what when I get there, where to park, what the people are going to look like, how the people are going to look like, how the people are going to look like, how long I should expect to be there. But long I should expect to be there. But long I should expect to be there. But you're right, Jason. That call to action you're right, Jason. That call to action you're right, Jason. That call to action on that page shouldn't be plan your on that page shouldn't be plan your on that page shouldn't be plan your visit. Fill out a form and tell us visit. Fill out a form and tell us visit. Fill out a form and tell us you're coming. It should be, let us send you're coming. It should be, let us send you're coming. It should be, let us send you something. We want to send you a you something. We want to send you a you something. We want to send you a previsit email. I have one church that I previsit email. I have one church that I previsit email. I have one church that I I worked with at one point that um had a I worked with at one point that um had a I worked with at one point that um had a uh a little PDF guide that they would uh a little PDF guide that they would uh a little PDF guide that they would send you that's uh how how to visit. I send you that's uh how how to visit. I send you that's uh how how to visit. I can't remember exactly what it was. I I can't remember exactly what it was. I I can't remember exactly what it was. I I still have it somewhere on my computer. still have it somewhere on my computer. still have it somewhere on my computer. It's how to how to visit a church for It's how to how to visit a church for It's how to how to visit a church for the very first time. And it gave like 10 the very first time. And it gave like 10 the very first time. And it gave like 10 pointers on things that you should do pointers on things that you should do pointers on things that you should do when you're visiting a church for the when you're visiting a church for the when you're visiting a church for the very first time. What kinds of things to very first time. What kinds of things to very first time. What kinds of things to do, what kinds of things to avoid. One do, what kinds of things to avoid. One do, what kinds of things to avoid. One of the things I love that they said was of the things I love that they said was of the things I love that they said was that you should visit a church uh like a that you should visit a church uh like a that you should visit a church uh like a tourist, not like a spy. What do spies tourist, not like a spy. What do spies tourist, not like a spy. What do spies do? Spies come in and they scout out a do? Spies come in and they scout out a do? Spies come in and they scout out a few things and then they leave. If you few things and then they leave. If you few things and then they leave. If you go to Disneyland, you go and you walk go to Disneyland, you go and you walk go to Disneyland, you go and you walk every single square foot of Disneyland every single square foot of Disneyland every single square foot of Disneyland to see everything because you're a to see everything because you're a to see everything because you're a tourist. You paid for it. Go and visit tourist. You paid for it. Go and visit tourist. You paid for it. Go and visit the church like a tourist. We need to the church like a tourist. We need to the church like a tourist. We need to treat our website as if we're trying to treat our website as if we're trying to treat our website as if we're trying to entice the tourist to come and check out entice the tourist to come and check out entice the tourist to come and check out our church. We want to show and tell a our church. We want to show and tell a our church. We want to show and tell a great story about who we are, the the great story about who we are, the the great story about who we are, the the the hope that God offers. Um, we want to the hope that God offers. Um, we want to the hope that God offers. Um, we want to show people whose lives have been show people whose lives have been show people whose lives have been changed by Jesus because it shows in changed by Jesus because it shows in changed by Jesus because it shows in their face. It shows in the experience their face. It shows in the experience their face. It shows in the experience that they're having because we want that they're having because we want that they're having because we want people to come to that website homepage people to come to that website homepage people to come to that website homepage or plan of visit page and go, I don't

or plan of visit page and go, I don't or plan of visit page and go, I don't know what those people have, but know what those people have, but know what those people have, but whatever it is that they have, I want whatever it is that they have, I want whatever it is that they have, I want some of it and I'm going to show up this some of it and I'm going to show up this some of it and I'm going to show up this Sunday to see if I can get some of that. Sunday to see if I can get some of that. Sunday to see if I can get some of that. So, um, there's my advice there. And So, um, there's my advice there. And So, um, there's my advice there. And yeah, of course, if you use that that yeah, of course, if you use that that yeah, of course, if you use that that let us send you a previsit email call to let us send you a previsit email call to let us send you a previsit email call to action and you can get some email action and you can get some email action and you can get some email addresses, then you can more effectively addresses, then you can more effectively addresses, then you can more effectively follow up with those people, you're not follow up with those people, you're not follow up with those people, you're not dependent on them to fill out a dependent on them to fill out a dependent on them to fill out a connection card the first time they show connection card the first time they show connection card the first time they show up. Or better yet, it better helps you up. Or better yet, it better helps you up. Or better yet, it better helps you track when people are on the website to track when people are on the website to track when people are on the website to when they're actually showing up on when they're actually showing up on when they're actually showing up on Sunday because perhaps they're going to Sunday because perhaps they're going to Sunday because perhaps they're going to register kids, check in kids to the register kids, check in kids to the register kids, check in kids to the children's ministry or they do fill out children's ministry or they do fill out children's ministry or they do fill out your digital connection card and you can your digital connection card and you can your digital connection card and you can say, "Hey, this this person filled out say, "Hey, this this person filled out say, "Hey, this this person filled out the plan to visit form or the previsit the plan to visit form or the previsit the plan to visit form or the previsit email form on our website six weeks ago email form on our website six weeks ago email form on our website six weeks ago and six weeks later they fill out a and six weeks later they fill out a and six weeks later they fill out a connection card on Sunday morning." connection card on Sunday morning." connection card on Sunday morning." Shows you that there's a gap. There's a Shows you that there's a gap. There's a Shows you that there's a gap. There's a there's a a time period that people there's a a time period that people there's a a time period that people need. either I'm attending a few times need. either I'm attending a few times need. either I'm attending a few times on a Sunday before I fill out the on a Sunday before I fill out the on a Sunday before I fill out the connection card or it just took me six connection card or it just took me six connection card or it just took me six weeks to muster up the courage to weeks to muster up the courage to weeks to muster up the courage to actually show up on Sunday after I actually show up on Sunday after I actually show up on Sunday after I filled out the form on your website. filled out the form on your website. filled out the form on your website. Right. A lot that we can interpret from Right. A lot that we can interpret from Right. A lot that we can interpret from that. But uh those are some things that that. But uh those are some things that that. But uh those are some things that I I I typically find to be helpful.

I I I typically find to be helpful. I I I typically find to be helpful. >> Yeah. You know uh uh you said this at >> Yeah. You know uh uh you said this at >> Yeah. You know uh uh you said this at the very top of the the show today that the very top of the the show today that the very top of the the show today that there's conversions and I kind of look there's conversions and I kind of look there's conversions and I kind of look at buckets of conversions. The ultimate at buckets of conversions. The ultimate at buckets of conversions. The ultimate conversion we want is actually the not conversion we want is actually the not conversion we want is actually the not the last conversion. The ultimate the last conversion. The ultimate the last conversion. The ultimate conversion we want is them to say yes to conversion we want is them to say yes to conversion we want is them to say yes to Jesus and get baptized, right? Jesus and get baptized, right? Jesus and get baptized, right? >> That's probably number three. I think my >> That's probably number three. I think my >> That's probably number three. I think my thinking is number one is I want a thinking is number one is I want a thinking is number one is I want a conversion of getting somebody on our conversion of getting somebody on our conversion of getting somebody on our website. So we're do either doing paid website. So we're do either doing paid website. So we're do either doing paid ads or we're doing organic traffic stuff ads or we're doing organic traffic stuff ads or we're doing organic traffic stuff to get people onto our website. Call to get people onto our website. Call to get people onto our website. Call that a good conversion. Yes. But I'm not that a good conversion. Yes. But I'm not that a good conversion. Yes. But I'm not done yet. Because then they're on our done yet. Because then they're on our done yet. Because then they're on our website. We either want them to fill out website. We either want them to fill out website. We either want them to fill out some kind of a form, right, to plan some kind of a form, right, to plan some kind of a form, right, to plan their visit and then show up. But if we their visit and then show up. But if we their visit and then show up. But if we could track conversions from that could track conversions from that could track conversions from that standpoint, hallelujah, now they're at standpoint, hallelujah, now they're at standpoint, hallelujah, now they're at church. Now they've come to church and church. Now they've come to church and church. Now they've come to church and they've converted. They started they they've converted. They started they they've converted. They started they checked in their kids or they they checked in their kids or they they checked in their kids or they they walked by the kiosk or maybe they gave walked by the kiosk or maybe they gave walked by the kiosk or maybe they gave some money, right? That they converted. some money, right? That they converted. some money, right? That they converted. We're like, "This is awesome tracking." We're like, "This is awesome tracking." We're like, "This is awesome tracking." And then, of course, we want them to say And then, of course, we want them to say And then, of course, we want them to say yes to Jesus if they haven't said yes to yes to Jesus if they haven't said yes to yes to Jesus if they haven't said yes to him before, get baptized. And then our him before, get baptized. And then our him before, get baptized. And then our last conversion is a fully devoted last conversion is a fully devoted last conversion is a fully devoted follower, follower, follower, >> right? They're they're carrying their >> right? They're they're carrying their >> right? They're they're carrying their cross daily. they're they're a disciple cross daily. they're they're a disciple cross daily. they're they're a disciple at our church and they are they are at our church and they are they are at our church and they are they are engaged that that like that's a engaged that that like that's a engaged that that like that's a sequence. I kind of call that a funnel, sequence. I kind of call that a funnel, sequence. I kind of call that a funnel, >> right? [clears throat] And so you got to >> right? [clears throat] And so you got to >> right? [clears throat] And so you got to be really mindful that you can't really be really mindful that you can't really be really mindful that you can't really miss a step in that, right? To be miss a step in that, right? To be miss a step in that, right? To be tracking, but as a comm's person who's tracking, but as a comm's person who's tracking, but as a comm's person who's probably listening to us talk about probably listening to us talk about probably listening to us talk about this, this, this, >> man, I'm I'm I'm in tune with all those >> man, I'm I'm I'm in tune with all those >> man, I'm I'm I'm in tune with all those conversion metrics. I'm in tune with all

conversion metrics. I'm in tune with all conversion metrics. I'm in tune with all those different we might call them those different we might call them those different we might call them silos, but that's probably not a good silos, but that's probably not a good silos, but that's probably not a good good word to use, but just sort of good word to use, but just sort of good word to use, but just sort of buckets of the the path that people buckets of the the path that people buckets of the the path that people take. And I I think we got to be really take. And I I think we got to be really take. And I I think we got to be really mindful because mission marketing, we're mindful because mission marketing, we're mindful because mission marketing, we're trying to help with all of those. We're trying to help with all of those. We're trying to help with all of those. We're trying to help teach that and and share trying to help teach that and and share trying to help teach that and and share that. And this conversation about your that. And this conversation about your that. And this conversation about your website is deep into be paying attention website is deep into be paying attention website is deep into be paying attention because you got one shot to make a because you got one shot to make a because you got one shot to make a really great impression because we're really great impression because we're really great impression because we're getting less and less traffic to our getting less and less traffic to our getting less and less traffic to our website and we want to move into the website and we want to move into the website and we want to move into the next next step of the journey. Yeah. Um, next next step of the journey. Yeah. Um, next next step of the journey. Yeah. Um, this has been great, but we should this has been great, but we should this has been great, but we should probably wrap this up. I do want to probably wrap this up. I do want to probably wrap this up. I do want to mention one thing though because, uh, mention one thing though because, uh, mention one thing though because, uh, the time that we are recording this, we the time that we are recording this, we the time that we are recording this, we have a brand new tool available for have a brand new tool available for have a brand new tool available for churches. It's free on our website, churches. It's free on our website, churches. It's free on our website, missionalmarketing.com, missionalmarketing.com, missionalmarketing.com, and it is called a digital health and it is called a digital health and it is called a digital health snapshot. Uh, what this is is it's snapshot. Uh, what this is is it's snapshot. Uh, what this is is it's essentially an audit of a church's essentially an audit of a church's essentially an audit of a church's digital footprint. It looks to see how digital footprint. It looks to see how digital footprint. It looks to see how does your website play with Google? How does your website play with Google? How does your website play with Google? How does your website play with large does your website play with large does your website play with large language models like chat, GBT, and language models like chat, GBT, and language models like chat, GBT, and Gemini? Um, what does your SEO look Gemini? Um, what does your SEO look Gemini? Um, what does your SEO look like? How is your searchability? How is like? How is your searchability? How is like? How is your searchability? How is your social media? Uh, how is your your social media? Uh, how is your your social media? Uh, how is your website from a technical standpoint?

website from a technical standpoint? website from a technical standpoint? There's six different um points or six There's six different um points or six There's six different um points or six different areas where you get an different areas where you get an different areas where you get an evaluation uh of your church website or evaluation uh of your church website or evaluation uh of your church website or your church's digital footprint as a your church's digital footprint as a your church's digital footprint as a whole. And it's it's a free it's a free whole. And it's it's a free it's a free whole. And it's it's a free it's a free resource, a free tool that we're resource, a free tool that we're resource, a free tool that we're offering to churches. So, if this is offering to churches. So, if this is offering to churches. So, if this is something that you're interested in, um, something that you're interested in, um, something that you're interested in, um, make sure you visit our website, make sure you visit our website, make sure you visit our website, missionalmarketing.com. missionalmarketing.com. missionalmarketing.com. Uh, somewhere on the homepage, you will Uh, somewhere on the homepage, you will Uh, somewhere on the homepage, you will find directions on how to, uh, get your find directions on how to, uh, get your find directions on how to, uh, get your free digital health snapshot and then free digital health snapshot and then free digital health snapshot and then um, you can schedule a call with one of um, you can schedule a call with one of um, you can schedule a call with one of our coaches to kind of walk you through our coaches to kind of walk you through our coaches to kind of walk you through it, help you understand it, and then it, help you understand it, and then it, help you understand it, and then help you strategize on how you can help you strategize on how you can help you strategize on how you can improve your digital footprint. You improve your digital footprint. You improve your digital footprint. You know, we've said this for a long time know, we've said this for a long time know, we've said this for a long time that if your church is invisible to that if your church is invisible to that if your church is invisible to Google, your church is invisible to your Google, your church is invisible to your Google, your church is invisible to your community. If your church is invisible community. If your church is invisible community. If your church is invisible to chat GPT, your church is invisible to to chat GPT, your church is invisible to to chat GPT, your church is invisible to your community. If your user experience your community. If your user experience your community. If your user experience is not intentional, you're missing is not intentional, you're missing is not intentional, you're missing opportunity to reach people that God has opportunity to reach people that God has opportunity to reach people that God has right in your community, checking out right in your community, checking out right in your community, checking out your church, trying to decide if your your church, trying to decide if your your church, trying to decide if your church is the right fit for them. And we church is the right fit for them. And we church is the right fit for them. And we don't want you to miss those don't want you to miss those don't want you to miss those opportunities. So, please take advantage opportunities. So, please take advantage opportunities. So, please take advantage of that. Jason, anything else that you of that. Jason, anything else that you of that. Jason, anything else that you want to add before we call this one want to add before we call this one want to add before we call this one closed?

closed? closed? >> Well, I think what Yeah. Yeah. Let me >> Well, I think what Yeah. Yeah. Let me >> Well, I think what Yeah. Yeah. Let me just let me add on to the uh to this uh just let me add on to the uh to this uh just let me add on to the uh to this uh this audit report. It's such a great this audit report. It's such a great this audit report. It's such a great report, guys. It's it's free. Um and we report, guys. It's it's free. Um and we report, guys. It's it's free. Um and we we we love to educate, teach, and help we we love to educate, teach, and help we we love to educate, teach, and help churches. So, when you get that report, churches. So, when you get that report, churches. So, when you get that report, the digital health report, what's going the digital health report, what's going the digital health report, what's going to happen is you're you're going to get to happen is you're you're going to get to happen is you're you're going to get a coach that can spend a half hour with a coach that can spend a half hour with a coach that can spend a half hour with you, an hour with you. No charge for you, an hour with you. No charge for you, an hour with you. No charge for that. We're going to walk you through that. We're going to walk you through that. We're going to walk you through what's on that report. You you got to what's on that report. You you got to what's on that report. You you got to know you got to know we want to elevate know you got to know we want to elevate know you got to know we want to elevate your thinking and your knowledge about your thinking and your knowledge about your thinking and your knowledge about these tools that constantly change. these tools that constantly change. these tools that constantly change. They're always changing all the time. Uh They're always changing all the time. Uh They're always changing all the time. Uh and so our job that's our ministry. It's and so our job that's our ministry. It's and so our job that's our ministry. It's what why we do what we do is to help what why we do what we do is to help what why we do what we do is to help you. So you get this report. We'll you. So you get this report. We'll you. So you get this report. We'll probably spend some time helping you, probably spend some time helping you, probably spend some time helping you, educate you, and giving you a sort of a educate you, and giving you a sort of a educate you, and giving you a sort of a game plan of what you need to do to go game plan of what you need to do to go game plan of what you need to do to go tackle that stuff. And maybe you need tackle that stuff. And maybe you need tackle that stuff. And maybe you need some help with it. Maybe you can do all some help with it. Maybe you can do all some help with it. Maybe you can do all of it, but you got to be educated with of it, but you got to be educated with of it, but you got to be educated with with this stuff. I tell it's super with this stuff. I tell it's super with this stuff. I tell it's super important. And and when we see that important. And and when we see that important. And and when we see that organic traffic is going down, it is so organic traffic is going down, it is so organic traffic is going down, it is so important, guys, that you have a really important, guys, that you have a really important, guys, that you have a really clear strategy to move people through clear strategy to move people through clear strategy to move people through that funnel I was talking about. And um that funnel I was talking about. And um that funnel I was talking about. And um so take advantage of it's on our so take advantage of it's on our so take advantage of it's on our website. It's a free tool.

website. It's a free tool. website. It's a free tool. >> Yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, one more >> Yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, one more >> Yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, one more plug and this is a little more timely. plug and this is a little more timely. plug and this is a little more timely. Uh we're hosting a conference in Kansas Uh we're hosting a conference in Kansas Uh we're hosting a conference in Kansas City in September, the church City in September, the church City in September, the church communications conference. Uh if you're communications conference. Uh if you're communications conference. Uh if you're in the communications space in your in the communications space in your in the communications space in your church, whether you are full-time comm's church, whether you are full-time comm's church, whether you are full-time comm's director or an administrative assistant director or an administrative assistant director or an administrative assistant or you're a pastor, uh and you own the or you're a pastor, uh and you own the or you're a pastor, uh and you own the communications and the the digital communications and the the digital communications and the the digital outreach or the marketing in your outreach or the marketing in your outreach or the marketing in your church. We'd love for you to join us. Go church. We'd love for you to join us. Go church. We'd love for you to join us. Go over to churchcommunications.com. over to churchcommunications.com. over to churchcommunications.com. You can get all the information there. You can get all the information there. You can get all the information there. Um Jason and I will both be there. Um Jason and I will both be there. Um Jason and I will both be there. Several of the team members on our team Several of the team members on our team Several of the team members on our team will be there. Uh Phil Cook, who was will be there. Uh Phil Cook, who was will be there. Uh Phil Cook, who was featured in our previous podcast featured in our previous podcast featured in our previous podcast episode, will be one of the keynote episode, will be one of the keynote episode, will be one of the keynote speakers and it's going to be a great speakers and it's going to be a great speakers and it's going to be a great time. We've done this several years in a time. We've done this several years in a time. We've done this several years in a row now. Um every year it just gets row now. Um every year it just gets row now. Um every year it just gets better and better. Uh this year we're better and better. Uh this year we're better and better. Uh this year we're doing specific tracks for different doing specific tracks for different doing specific tracks for different sizes of churches. So uh you can be in a sizes of churches. So uh you can be in a sizes of churches. So uh you can be in a room uh in some breakouts and workshops room uh in some breakouts and workshops room uh in some breakouts and workshops with other people that are kind of in with other people that are kind of in with other people that are kind of in the same lane as you. We recognize that, the same lane as you. We recognize that, the same lane as you. We recognize that, you know, a church of 5,000 people has you know, a church of 5,000 people has you know, a church of 5,000 people has different resources than a church of different resources than a church of different resources than a church of 500, than a church of 50. And we want to 500, than a church of 50. And we want to 500, than a church of 50. And we want to try to contextualize the best we are try to contextualize the best we are try to contextualize the best we are able uh some of the the communications able uh some of the the communications able uh some of the the communications coaching and the direction that you're coaching and the direction that you're coaching and the direction that you're getting based on uh based on kind of getting based on uh based on kind of getting based on uh based on kind of where where you live in terms of your where where you live in terms of your where where you live in terms of your day in dayout ministry operations. So, day in dayout ministry operations. So, day in dayout ministry operations. So, please click over to church please click over to church please click over to church communications group uh to get the communications group uh to get the communications group uh to get the information there. We'll link to it in information there. We'll link to it in information there. We'll link to it in the show notes. And uh yeah, we should the show notes. And uh yeah, we should the show notes. And uh yeah, we should probably wrap this up. This has been the probably wrap this up. This has been the probably wrap this up. This has been the 185th episode of our podcast. Thanks for

185th episode of our podcast. Thanks for 185th episode of our podcast. Thanks for tuning in all the way to the end. If you tuning in all the way to the end. If you tuning in all the way to the end. If you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, make listen to your favorite podcast, make listen to your favorite podcast, make sure that you do that so that you don't sure that you do that so that you don't sure that you do that so that you don't miss future episodes. And if you know miss future episodes. And if you know miss future episodes. And if you know someone who might find this content to someone who might find this content to someone who might find this content to be helpful, please be sure to share this be helpful, please be sure to share this be helpful, please be sure to share this episode with them, whether that's episode with them, whether that's episode with them, whether that's through Spotify or Apple Podcasts or through Spotify or Apple Podcasts or through Spotify or Apple Podcasts or through our YouTube channel. Thanks, and through our YouTube channel. Thanks, and through our YouTube channel. Thanks, and we'll see you next time.