3 Books That Made Us Better Christian Leaders

I'm Brady 32 years old I've got a degree I'm Brady 32 years old I've got a degree in Theology and I lead a Christian Media in Theology and I lead a Christian Media in Theology and I lead a Christian Media company of around 20 employees I'm Alex company of around 20 employees I'm Alex company of around 20 employees I'm Alex I'm 30 I'm a by vacational Pastor at a I'm 30 I'm a by vacational Pastor at a I'm 30 I'm a by vacational Pastor at a local church and I work with this guy local church and I work with this guy local church and I work with this guy we've each been in positions of we've each been in positions of we've each been in positions of leadership for roughly a decade now so leadership for roughly a decade now so leadership for roughly a decade now so today on the show we're sharing three today on the show we're sharing three today on the show we're sharing three books that have been hugely formative books that have been hugely formative books that have been hugely formative for us as Christian leaders now I will for us as Christian leaders now I will for us as Christian leaders now I will warn you some of these books are not by warn you some of these books are not by warn you some of these books are not by Christian authors or at least some of Christian authors or at least some of Christian authors or at least some of mine mine mine well hey there and welcome to the pro well hey there and welcome to the pro well hey there and welcome to the pro Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest and your church navigate the biggest and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm Brady sheer your host I'm joined as Brady sheer your host I'm joined as Brady sheer your host I'm joined as always by my co-host we call him the always by my co-host we call him the always by my co-host we call him the well read religious man it's Alexander well read religious man it's Alexander well read religious man it's Alexander Mills hello hello discussing today three Mills hello hello discussing today three Mills hello hello discussing today three books that have made us better Christian books that have made us better Christian books that have made us better Christian leaders we're going to go back and forth leaders we're going to go back and forth leaders we're going to go back and forth here we don't know the other person's here we don't know the other person's here we don't know the other person's books and you might say well there are books and you might say well there are books and you might say well there are only two on the table for each of you we only two on the table for each of you we only two on the table for each of you we haven't talked about them and apparently haven't talked about them and apparently haven't talked about them and apparently we only bought two but we're supposed to we only bought two but we're supposed to we only bought two but we're supposed to bring three we'll figure it out this is bring three we'll figure it out this is bring three we'll figure it out this is our podcast we can do it if we want I'm our podcast we can do it if we want I'm our podcast we can do it if we want I'm going to kick things off here with my going to kick things off here with my going to kick things off here with my honorable mentions because how could you honorable mentions because how could you honorable mentions because how could you condense a series of books that have condense a series of books that have condense a series of books that have made us better Christian leaders into made us better Christian leaders into made us better Christian leaders into just three when you told me we were just three when you told me we were just three when you told me we were doing this episode I walked into my doing this episode I walked into my doing this episode I walked into my office or my study and I opened I have office or my study and I opened I have office or my study and I opened I have two closet doors and you open the closet two closet doors and you open the closet two closet doors and you open the closet and it's floor to ceiling like literally and it's floor to ceiling like literally and it's floor to ceiling like literally ceiling to the point where I have to get ceiling to the point where I have to get ceiling to the point where I have to get on a step stool to get up to the top on a step stool to get up to the top on a step stool to get up to the top shelf of books my closet is just books shelf of books my closet is just books shelf of books my closet is just books and I stood there looking at this and I and I stood there looking at this and I and I stood there looking at this and I was overwhelmed at the idea of choosing was overwhelmed at the idea of choosing was overwhelmed at the idea of choosing two books to the point or three books to two books to the point or three books to two books to the point or three books to the point where I almost close the doors the point where I almost close the doors the point where I almost close the doors and text you I'm like I can't I can't do and text you I'm like I can't I can't do and text you I'm like I can't I can't do this it's got to be a solo episode uh

this it's got to be a solo episode uh this it's got to be a solo episode uh but chose three with some honorable but chose three with some honorable but chose three with some honorable mentions of course because how could you mentions of course because how could you mentions of course because how could you just choose three I like that you chose just choose three I like that you chose just choose three I like that you chose presumably two you're like three is hard presumably two you're like three is hard presumably two you're like three is hard enough I'm going to challenge myself to enough I'm going to challenge myself to enough I'm going to challenge myself to make it even more difficult so my make it even more difficult so my make it even more difficult so my honorable mention my first honorable honorable mention my first honorable honorable mention my first honorable mention here is just autobiographies as mention here is just autobiographies as mention here is just autobiographies as a whole Memoirs just the category uh a whole Memoirs just the category uh a whole Memoirs just the category uh three that I've read this year green three that I've read this year green three that I've read this year green lights by Matthew mccon hustle harder lights by Matthew mccon hustle harder lights by Matthew mccon hustle harder hustle smarter by Curtis Jackson AKA hustle smarter by Curtis Jackson AKA hustle smarter by Curtis Jackson AKA fitty and a promise Land by Barack Obama fitty and a promise Land by Barack Obama fitty and a promise Land by Barack Obama why do I love autobiographies as a why do I love autobiographies as a why do I love autobiographies as a category I think that they make for a category I think that they make for a category I think that they make for a great addition to any person's reading great addition to any person's reading great addition to any person's reading diet and I liken them to travel you know diet and I liken them to travel you know diet and I liken them to travel you know you travel you experience a different you travel you experience a different you travel you experience a different culture it's a good reminder it's a culture it's a good reminder it's a culture it's a good reminder it's a humbling reminder of how small you are humbling reminder of how small you are humbling reminder of how small you are in the world as a whole autobiographies in the world as a whole autobiographies in the world as a whole autobiographies are kind of like that because you get are kind of like that because you get are kind of like that because you get brought typically into like this was my brought typically into like this was my brought typically into like this was my childhood and these were the struggles childhood and these were the struggles childhood and these were the struggles that I overcame and this was my family that I overcame and this was my family that I overcame and this was my family life and this was where I grew up and life and this was where I grew up and life and this was where I grew up and then this is what I achieved and and how then this is what I achieved and and how then this is what I achieved and and how I made a difference in the world almost I made a difference in the world almost I made a difference in the world almost always it is so different than your own always it is so different than your own always it is so different than your own upbringing but our upbringing pretty upbringing but our upbringing pretty upbringing but our upbringing pretty similar yeah most of my friends and similar yeah most of my friends and similar yeah most of my friends and family upringing pretty similar so it's family upringing pretty similar so it's family upringing pretty similar so it's great to be exposed to that different great to be exposed to that different great to be exposed to that different type of uh person because and you listen type of uh person because and you listen type of uh person because and you listen to all of these so you get to listen to to all of these so you get to listen to to all of these so you get to listen to them be read by no no we're not getting them be read by no no we're not getting them be read by no no we're not getting into that I'm just saying you get to into that I'm just saying you get to into that I'm just saying you get to listen to them be read to you by the listen to them be read to you by the listen to them be read to you by the author by Matthew mccon or Barack Obama author by Matthew mccon or Barack Obama author by Matthew mccon or Barack Obama and that is a a privilege that we is so and that is a a privilege that we is so and that is a a privilege that we is so recent so modern like you know any

recent so modern like you know any recent so modern like you know any Memoir prior to 10 years ago or whenever Memoir prior to 10 years ago or whenever Memoir prior to 10 years ago or whenever audible became a thing like you weren't audible became a thing like you weren't audible became a thing like you weren't hearing it read to you by the author but hearing it read to you by the author but hearing it read to you by the author but to hear those stories read to you by to hear those stories read to you by to hear those stories read to you by those people I'm sure that's a really those people I'm sure that's a really those people I'm sure that's a really unique experience I purposefully put in unique experience I purposefully put in unique experience I purposefully put in the title three books that made us the title three books that made us the title three books that made us better Christian leaders not three books better Christian leaders not three books better Christian leaders not three books we read right because it's a big we read right because it's a big we read right because it's a big contentious whether or not an audio book contentious whether or not an audio book contentious whether or not an audio book is considered a book that you read or is considered a book that you read or is considered a book that you read or not uh that's a great point Thank you not uh that's a great point Thank you not uh that's a great point Thank you for adding that yes you wouldn't for adding that yes you wouldn't for adding that yes you wouldn't understand this I wouldn't because but understand this I wouldn't because but understand this I wouldn't because but but for everyone that is an audiobook but for everyone that is an audiobook but for everyone that is an audiobook listener there is nothing quite as listener there is nothing quite as listener there is nothing quite as satisfying is when you get to the end of satisfying is when you get to the end of satisfying is when you get to the end of a book and you hear in that old timey a book and you hear in that old timey a book and you hear in that old timey grainy voice audible hopes you've grainy voice audible hopes you've grainy voice audible hopes you've enjoyed this message they don't say enjoyed this message they don't say enjoyed this message they don't say message audio hopes you've enjoyed this message audio hopes you've enjoyed this message audio hopes you've enjoyed this program okay and it's like I finished program okay and it's like I finished program okay and it's like I finished the book if you don't hear that you the book if you don't hear that you the book if you don't hear that you didn't finish the book uh second didn't finish the book uh second didn't finish the book uh second honorable mention here and notably and honorable mention here and notably and honorable mention here and notably and I'll explain my reasoning for this the I'll explain my reasoning for this the I'll explain my reasoning for this the only book by a Christian only book by a Christian only book by a Christian Author though I mean Obama 50 and MCC he Author though I mean Obama 50 and MCC he Author though I mean Obama 50 and MCC he all talked about their faith so so all talked about their faith so so all talked about their faith so so technically depending on what you technically depending on what you technically depending on what you categorize but this uh is the toxic war categorize but this uh is the toxic war categorize but this uh is the toxic war on masculinity by Nancy R piery what I'm on masculinity by Nancy R piery what I'm on masculinity by Nancy R piery what I'm loving about this book and I I am not loving about this book and I I am not loving about this book and I I am not quite done it so far which is why it's quite done it so far which is why it's quite done it so far which is why it's only an honorable mention because I have only an honorable mention because I have only an honorable mention because I have had some experience where you get 34s had some experience where you get 34s had some experience where you get 34s away through the book and suddenly the away through the book and suddenly the away through the book and suddenly the author's like here's what I really think author's like here's what I really think author's like here's what I really think you're like I know why you put this in you're like I know why you put this in you're like I know why you put this in the back of the book now so what I've the back of the book now so what I've the back of the book now so what I've loved about this book this is the third loved about this book this is the third loved about this book this is the third one that I've read on masculinity this one that I've read on masculinity this one that I've read on masculinity this year is that it's part History part

year is that it's part History part year is that it's part History part sociology and part Theology and one of sociology and part Theology and one of sociology and part Theology and one of the reasons that I don't typically read the reasons that I don't typically read the reasons that I don't typically read all my I don't read all my books from all my I don't read all my books from all my I don't read all my books from Christian authors is because often the Christian authors is because often the Christian authors is because often the books are like primarily theology books are like primarily theology books are like primarily theology focused I have my degree in theology I'm focused I have my degree in theology I'm focused I have my degree in theology I'm still recovering from all of the still recovering from all of the still recovering from all of the theology theology books that I read theology theology books that I read theology theology books that I read during my degree and so what's so cool during my degree and so what's so cool during my degree and so what's so cool about this is that there's a lot of about this is that there's a lot of about this is that there's a lot of theology but just as much history just theology but just as much history just theology but just as much history just as much so soci ology the thesis of the as much so soci ology the thesis of the as much so soci ology the thesis of the book is that in eras past when uh men book is that in eras past when uh men book is that in eras past when uh men were not so nice to women let's think were not so nice to women let's think were not so nice to women let's think the Roman Empire what Christianity was the Roman Empire what Christianity was the Roman Empire what Christianity was amazing at was saying hey did you know amazing at was saying hey did you know amazing at was saying hey did you know that men and women are equal and it was that men and women are equal and it was that men and women are equal and it was awesome and then now where you've kind awesome and then now where you've kind awesome and then now where you've kind of inverted where Society might say hey of inverted where Society might say hey of inverted where Society might say hey men are men are men are trash all men are trash it's scripture trash all men are trash it's scripture trash all men are trash it's scripture is like hey no no no hey actually men is like hey no no no hey actually men is like hey no no no hey actually men are good for these reasons and the whole are good for these reasons and the whole are good for these reasons and the whole thesis is how Christianity reconciles thesis is how Christianity reconciles thesis is how Christianity reconciles the Sexes across all of history and it the Sexes across all of history and it the Sexes across all of history and it is bolstered and supported by is bolstered and supported by is bolstered and supported by sociological studies and a ton of sociological studies and a ton of sociological studies and a ton of research which I love of course one very research which I love of course one very research which I love of course one very interesting takeaway from this book so interesting takeaway from this book so interesting takeaway from this book so you'll often hear about uh you know you'll often hear about uh you know you'll often hear about uh you know Christian abuse abuse in the church and Christian abuse abuse in the church and Christian abuse abuse in the church and what this author does a great job of is what this author does a great job of is what this author does a great job of is separating kind of the studies that are separating kind of the studies that are separating kind of the studies that are often lumped together and what she often lumped together and what she often lumped together and what she demonstrates is that Christian men demonstrates is that Christian men demonstrates is that Christian men Evangelical or protest Protestant that Evangelical or protest Protestant that Evangelical or protest Protestant that attend church I think it's like three or attend church I think it's like three or attend church I think it's like three or more times per week so what they would more times per week so what they would more times per week so what they would qualify as a devout Christian are the

qualify as a devout Christian are the qualify as a devout Christian are the least likely to get divorced the most least likely to get divorced the most least likely to get divorced the most likely to be involved in the home the likely to be involved in the home the likely to be involved in the home the most likely to believe in the permanence most likely to believe in the permanence most likely to believe in the permanence of marriage and the most likely to uh of marriage and the most likely to uh of marriage and the most likely to uh not not not divorce nominal Christians those who divorce nominal Christians those who divorce nominal Christians those who would check the box right claim the same would check the box right claim the same would check the box right claim the same beliefs but don't actually attend church beliefs but don't actually attend church beliefs but don't actually attend church most likely to get divorced most likely most likely to get divorced most likely most likely to get divorced most likely and so what happens often is that these and so what happens often is that these and so what happens often is that these two kind of get put because Christian two kind of get put because Christian two kind of get put because Christian label exactly very fascinating yeah this label exactly very fascinating yeah this label exactly very fascinating yeah this book is I haven't read it it's very well book is I haven't read it it's very well book is I haven't read it it's very well reviewed and so I don't think you're in reviewed and so I don't think you're in reviewed and so I don't think you're in for a dramatic turn of events God last for a dramatic turn of events God last for a dramatic turn of events God last chapter uh and if I'm correct she also chapter uh and if I'm correct she also chapter uh and if I'm correct she also wrote the book love thy body that's wrote the book love thy body that's wrote the book love thy body that's correct which is also very well reviewed correct which is also very well reviewed correct which is also very well reviewed so yeah nice honorable mentions for you so yeah nice honorable mentions for you so yeah nice honorable mentions for you honorable mentions for me I threw in um honorable mentions for me I threw in um honorable mentions for me I threw in um jeez I'm annoyed at myself already uh jeez I'm annoyed at myself already uh jeez I'm annoyed at myself already uh the first one is The Sermon on the Mount the first one is The Sermon on the Mount the first one is The Sermon on the Mount uh uh uh which I I had to include because because which I I had to include because because which I I had to include because because I had I was standing in front of my I had I was standing in front of my I had I was standing in front of my books and a third of my books are Bibles books and a third of my books are Bibles books and a third of my books are Bibles I I collect Bibles I have like over a I I collect Bibles I have like over a I I collect Bibles I have like over a hundred Bibles and I wanted to just say hundred Bibles and I wanted to just say hundred Bibles and I wanted to just say like oh the Bible which is too much but like oh the Bible which is too much but like oh the Bible which is too much but truthfully uh there there's no piece of truthfully uh there there's no piece of truthfully uh there there's no piece of literature that has been more formative literature that has been more formative literature that has been more formative to me in my Christian leadership Than to me in my Christian leadership Than to me in my Christian leadership Than The Sermon on the Mount so I had to The Sermon on the Mount so I had to The Sermon on the Mount so I had to include it um then I have the D do which include it um then I have the D do which include it um then I have the D do which is like um an early Christian writing is like um an early Christian writing is like um an early Christian writing that the that kind of documents the life that the that kind of documents the life that the that kind of documents the life of the Apostles and like what Christian of the Apostles and like what Christian of the Apostles and like what Christian lifestyle looked like in first second lifestyle looked like in first second lifestyle looked like in first second third Century um post Christ so like

third Century um post Christ so like third Century um post Christ so like folks had had been with Jesus had heard folks had had been with Jesus had heard folks had had been with Jesus had heard of Jesus firsthand secondhand and are of Jesus firsthand secondhand and are of Jesus firsthand secondhand and are now trying to practice things or now trying to practice things or now trying to practice things or practice this life that way so I'm I'm practice this life that way so I'm I'm practice this life that way so I'm I'm always curious like okay the people who always curious like okay the people who always curious like okay the people who are in closest proximity to Jesus what are in closest proximity to Jesus what are in closest proximity to Jesus what did following Jesus look like for them did following Jesus look like for them did following Jesus look like for them and so that kind of gives us some good and so that kind of gives us some good and so that kind of gives us some good insight there um there's a really short insight there um there's a really short insight there um there's a really short book it's almost like a handbook called book it's almost like a handbook called book it's almost like a handbook called being Christian by um by Rowan Williams being Christian by um by Rowan Williams being Christian by um by Rowan Williams and it is such a great and it is such a great and it is such a great introduction introduction introduction or reaffirmation of like the basic or reaffirmation of like the basic or reaffirmation of like the basic tenants of Christian faith so like tenants of Christian faith so like tenants of Christian faith so like things like communion and baptism and things like communion and baptism and things like communion and baptism and prayer like just it's a very small book prayer like just it's a very small book prayer like just it's a very small book I don't know it's probably less than 100 I don't know it's probably less than 100 I don't know it's probably less than 100 Pages um so it's a good refresher Pages um so it's a good refresher Pages um so it's a good refresher reminder it's a good uh it's a good reminder it's a good uh it's a good reminder it's a good uh it's a good handbook for folks who are just being handbook for folks who are just being handbook for folks who are just being introduced to the faith it's very introduced to the faith it's very introduced to the faith it's very approachable uh that's we all have a approachable uh that's we all have a approachable uh that's we all have a short read being Christian yeah we stand short read being Christian yeah we stand short read being Christian yeah we stand a short king and a short read that's a short king and a short read that's a short king and a short read that's right speaking of autobiographies and right speaking of autobiographies and right speaking of autobiographies and biographies Memoir Memoirs I have a biographies Memoir Memoirs I have a biographies Memoir Memoirs I have a burning in my bones which is Eugene burning in my bones which is Eugene burning in my bones which is Eugene Peterson's autobiography or sorry Peterson's autobiography or sorry Peterson's autobiography or sorry biography and Pastor which is his Memoir biography and Pastor which is his Memoir biography and Pastor which is his Memoir U read both of those this year uh we'll U read both of those this year uh we'll U read both of those this year uh we'll talk about Eugene Peterson a little bit talk about Eugene Peterson a little bit talk about Eugene Peterson a little bit later shocking I know how to survive a later shocking I know how to survive a later shocking I know how to survive a shipwreck by Jonathan Martin that's a shipwreck by Jonathan Martin that's a shipwreck by Jonathan Martin that's a good book about just how to good book about just how to good book about just how to navigate trials and trouble in Christian navigate trials and trouble in Christian navigate trials and trouble in Christian Life what else oh and why would anyone Life what else oh and why would anyone Life what else oh and why would anyone go to church this is uh a book written go to church this is uh a book written go to church this is uh a book written by actually a local Pastor here A friend by actually a local Pastor here A friend by actually a local Pastor here A friend of mine named Kevin Min he's a pastor of of mine named Kevin Min he's a pastor of of mine named Kevin Min he's a pastor of Eucharist Church in Hamilton and he Eucharist Church in Hamilton and he Eucharist Church in Hamilton and he wrote this book asking the question that

wrote this book asking the question that wrote this book asking the question that a lot of us he was asking this question a lot of us he was asking this question a lot of us he was asking this question before co uh but a question that a lot before co uh but a question that a lot before co uh but a question that a lot of us found ourselves asking during the of us found ourselves asking during the of us found ourselves asking during the co 19 pandemic which is like why why do co 19 pandemic which is like why why do co 19 pandemic which is like why why do we go to church and I think he's put we go to church and I think he's put we go to church and I think he's put forth a really great effort to answer forth a really great effort to answer forth a really great effort to answer that question it's been so helpful to me that question it's been so helpful to me that question it's been so helpful to me as a as a pastor um so those are my as a as a pastor um so those are my as a as a pastor um so those are my honorable mentions perfect I going to honorable mentions perfect I going to honorable mentions perfect I going to kick things off here with my first book kick things off here with my first book kick things off here with my first book and the way that I have uh written the and the way that I have uh written the and the way that I have uh written the notes for these books is I've talked notes for these books is I've talked notes for these books is I've talked about where I kind of was in my life about where I kind of was in my life about where I kind of was in my life when this book came along and all three when this book came along and all three when this book came along and all three I I read this year tried to keep it I I read this year tried to keep it I I read this year tried to keep it recent uh and then also Concepts that I recent uh and then also Concepts that I recent uh and then also Concepts that I wrote down while reading the book wrote down while reading the book wrote down while reading the book listening to the book these books were listening to the book these books were listening to the book these books were so good though I bought the physical so good though I bought the physical so good though I bought the physical copy you know I really liked a book when copy you know I really liked a book when copy you know I really liked a book when I listen to it and then I go and buy the I listen to it and then I go and buy the I listen to it and then I go and buy the actual hard copy and so hopefully those actual hard copy and so hopefully those actual hard copy and so hopefully those Concepts irrespective of if you read the Concepts irrespective of if you read the Concepts irrespective of if you read the book or not are going to be helpful and book or not are going to be helpful and book or not are going to be helpful and Illuminating why are none of the three Illuminating why are none of the three Illuminating why are none of the three books that I chose spoiler alert written books that I chose spoiler alert written books that I chose spoiler alert written by Christian authors and how did these by Christian authors and how did these by Christian authors and how did these books help me as a Christian leader so books help me as a Christian leader so books help me as a Christian leader so my feeling is that all of these books my feeling is that all of these books my feeling is that all of these books help me live by my Christ centered help me live by my Christ centered help me live by my Christ centered principles so they didn't shape my principles so they didn't shape my principles so they didn't shape my worldview let's say but they helped me worldview let's say but they helped me worldview let's say but they helped me actually live it and I'm a firm believer actually live it and I'm a firm believer actually live it and I'm a firm believer that like all truth is God's truth and that like all truth is God's truth and that like all truth is God's truth and and these three books kind of all in and these three books kind of all in and these three books kind of all in their own unique category of things in their own unique category of things in their own unique category of things in my Christian Life that I've kind of had my Christian Life that I've kind of had my Christian Life that I've kind of had to like figure out this year um or at to like figure out this year um or at to like figure out this year um or at least take steps forward in and they least take steps forward in and they least take steps forward in and they were extremely helpful and rooted in were extremely helpful and rooted in were extremely helpful and rooted in like the Christian principles the Christ like the Christian principles the Christ like the Christian principles the Christ centered principles that I want to live

centered principles that I want to live centered principles that I want to live my life by first book is called the my life by first book is called the my life by first book is called the Comfort crisis this is written by Comfort crisis this is written by Comfort crisis this is written by Michael Easter Michael Easter Michael Easter and shockingly is not the first book and shockingly is not the first book and shockingly is not the first book that I've read this year where I bought that I've read this year where I bought that I've read this year where I bought the book based on its title and on a the book based on its title and on a the book based on its title and on a recommendation thought it was one thing recommendation thought it was one thing recommendation thought it was one thing only to figure out psych it's about a only to figure out psych it's about a only to figure out psych it's about a bow bow bow hunter it's happened twice now got him hunter it's happened twice now got him hunter it's happened twice now got him now Alex as you may not know himself is now Alex as you may not know himself is now Alex as you may not know himself is a bow hunter I didn't know that I knew a bow hunter I didn't know that I knew a bow hunter I didn't know that I knew that the other one was about bow hunting that the other one was about bow hunting that the other one was about bow hunting I did not know that this one was about I did not know that this one was about I did not know that this one was about bow hunting and we're entering hunting bow hunting and we're entering hunting bow hunting and we're entering hunting season we are so close how excited are season we are so close how excited are season we are so close how excited are you I can barely contain it I I am doing you I can barely contain it I I am doing you I can barely contain it I I am doing my very best to not talk about it on my very best to not talk about it on my very best to not talk about it on this show because it's it's not this show because it's it's not this show because it's it's not necessary but I it's all consuming in my necessary but I it's all consuming in my necessary but I it's all consuming in my life right now now when Alex first life right now now when Alex first life right now now when Alex first became a hunter maybe I'll read this became a hunter maybe I'll read this became a hunter maybe I'll read this maybe I'll bring it to the forest you maybe I'll bring it to the forest you maybe I'll bring it to the forest you should yeah should yeah should yeah you pretty recently two years ago what's you pretty recently two years ago what's you pretty recently two years ago what's that you picked up the discipline yes that you picked up the discipline yes that you picked up the discipline yes this my third year hunting I've been this my third year hunting I've been this my third year hunting I've been it's my fourth year like progressing it's my fourth year like progressing it's my fourth year like progressing towards hunting but my third season towards hunting but my third season towards hunting but my third season actually hunting so Alex picks this up actually hunting so Alex picks this up actually hunting so Alex picks this up and I'm like what are you doing I don't and I'm like what are you doing I don't and I'm like what are you doing I don't come from a history of that it was come from a history of that it was come from a history of that it was unfamiliar to me and he as he always unfamiliar to me and he as he always unfamiliar to me and he as he always does very aptly and delicately and does very aptly and delicately and does very aptly and delicately and compassionately explains it to me and I compassionately explains it to me and I compassionately explains it to me and I go go go okay I read this book and I'm like wow I okay I read this book and I'm like wow I okay I read this book and I'm like wow I get it get it get it now like how is that like your best now like how is that like your best now like how is that like your best friend he's like hey this and then friend he's like hey this and then friend he's like hey this and then you're like nah I'm not feeling it some you're like nah I'm not feeling it some you're like nah I'm not feeling it some random person writes a book you're like random person writes a book you're like random person writes a book you're like oh so oh so oh so profound that's all right the best part

profound that's all right the best part profound that's all right the best part was the second book that I read which we was the second book that I read which we was the second book that I read which we don't have to reveal I knew I knew what don't have to reveal I knew I knew what don't have to reveal I knew I knew what Alex was going to say and I was like I'm Alex was going to say and I was like I'm Alex was going to say and I was like I'm not going to tell him I'm reading this not going to tell him I'm reading this not going to tell him I'm reading this book I get to the end and he starts book I get to the end and he starts book I get to the end and he starts talking about God again this happens talking about God again this happens talking about God again this happens they get to the did you know about the they get to the did you know about the they get to the did you know about the Lord I'm like yes I know about the Lord Lord I'm like yes I know about the Lord Lord I'm like yes I know about the Lord and I'm like hey man I'm reading this and I'm like hey man I'm reading this and I'm like hey man I'm reading this book by know this B he's like who is it book by know this B he's like who is it book by know this B he's like who is it I tell him the name he's like oh no that I tell him the name he's like oh no that I tell him the name he's like oh no that dude sucks I knew it was going to happen dude sucks I knew it was going to happen dude sucks I knew it was going to happen against my better judgment I let him against my better judgment I let him against my better judgment I let him know okay so what's really cool about know okay so what's really cool about know okay so what's really cool about this book is that it is equal parts this book is that it is equal parts this book is that it is equal parts Memoir of this guy becoming a hunter and Memoir of this guy becoming a hunter and Memoir of this guy becoming a hunter and then also dense sociological and then also dense sociological and then also dense sociological and empirical studies empirical studies empirical studies on comfort and to prove my point at the on comfort and to prove my point at the on comfort and to prove my point at the end of the book he's like you know there end of the book he's like you know there end of the book he's like you know there are accompanying materials if you want are accompanying materials if you want are accompanying materials if you want to see all of my citations and sources to see all of my citations and sources to see all of my citations and sources to which I said yes please and I printed to which I said yes please and I printed to which I said yes please and I printed them out little did I know when I them out little did I know when I them out little did I know when I started printing them started printing them started printing them out I was going to have to get a new ink out I was going to have to get a new ink out I was going to have to get a new ink cartridge because like this just cartridge because like this just cartridge because like this just citations just citations from the book citations just citations from the book citations just citations from the book so this is like the so this is like the so this is like the perfect marriage between storytelling perfect marriage between storytelling perfect marriage between storytelling which grips you and and he he weaves a which grips you and and he he weaves a which grips you and and he he weaves a single story kind of throughout the single story kind of throughout the single story kind of throughout the whole book so you kind of like take a whole book so you kind of like take a whole book so you kind of like take a break and then he's like and let me tell break and then he's like and let me tell break and then he's like and let me tell you about citations like nice I love you about citations like nice I love you about citations like nice I love citations and then he goes back to the citations and then he goes back to the citations and then he goes back to the store I'm like Boo hunting by the end of store I'm like Boo hunting by the end of store I'm like Boo hunting by the end of this by the end of the chapter I'm like this by the end of the chapter I'm like this by the end of the chapter I'm like wow I could also survive in the Alaskan wow I could also survive in the Alaskan wow I could also survive in the Alaskan Wilderness brilliantly done let's talk Wilderness brilliantly done let's talk Wilderness brilliantly done let's talk about uh where was I when this book kind about uh where was I when this book kind about uh where was I when this book kind of met me in my life so I read this at of met me in my life so I read this at of met me in my life so I read this at the beginning of the year during just a the beginning of the year during just a the beginning of the year during just a really challenging season where a lot

really challenging season where a lot really challenging season where a lot more was required of me across every more was required of me across every more was required of me across every kind of vertical of my life family work kind of vertical of my life family work kind of vertical of my life family work kind of personal health and I was like I kind of personal health and I was like I kind of personal health and I was like I don't know if I'm like up for this and I don't know if I'm like up for this and I don't know if I'm like up for this and I was just like thinking about the story was just like thinking about the story was just like thinking about the story of the Rich Young Ruler because you know of the Rich Young Ruler because you know of the Rich Young Ruler because you know despite it being a really challenging despite it being a really challenging despite it being a really challenging part of my life relatively like I am part of my life relatively like I am part of my life relatively like I am financially secure I am in a very happy financially secure I am in a very happy financially secure I am in a very happy marriage I have two beautiful daughters marriage I have two beautiful daughters marriage I have two beautiful daughters I love being a dad the work that I do is I love being a dad the work that I do is I love being a dad the work that I do is fulfilling I love the fulfilling I love the fulfilling I love the Lord relatively speaking all is good I Lord relatively speaking all is good I Lord relatively speaking all is good I would be maybe the depiction of that would be maybe the depiction of that would be maybe the depiction of that Rich Young Ruler he comes to Jesus and Rich Young Ruler he comes to Jesus and Rich Young Ruler he comes to Jesus and he says Lord what must I do to enter the he says Lord what must I do to enter the he says Lord what must I do to enter the kingdom and he's like well you know kingdom and he's like well you know kingdom and he's like well you know maybe sell everything you have and the maybe sell everything you have and the maybe sell everything you have and the Young Rich ruler walks away in despair Young Rich ruler walks away in despair Young Rich ruler walks away in despair did I get that story right yep nice I'm did I get that story right yep nice I'm did I get that story right yep nice I'm not the pastor here you theology I had not the pastor here you theology I had not the pastor here you theology I had my degree was a little while ago want to my degree was a little while ago want to my degree was a little while ago want to make sure I have that right and you know make sure I have that right and you know make sure I have that right and you know sometimes I think about myself but all sometimes I think about myself but all sometimes I think about myself but all of us in the time that we live in are of us in the time that we live in are of us in the time that we live in are living in unprecedented levels of living in unprecedented levels of living in unprecedented levels of comfort things are easier than they have comfort things are easier than they have comfort things are easier than they have ever been we have more Recreation than ever been we have more Recreation than ever been we have more Recreation than we have ever had we have food and we have ever had we have food and we have ever had we have food and substances and television and sports and substances and television and sports and substances and television and sports and hobbies and anything to just make us hobbies and anything to just make us hobbies and anything to just make us feel good supermarkets you don't have to feel good supermarkets you don't have to feel good supermarkets you don't have to hunt your food if you don't want to hunt your food if you don't want to hunt your food if you don't want to right not all of us are stockpiling elk right not all of us are stockpiling elk right not all of us are stockpiling elk and uh and uh and uh preserving foraged mushrooms over the preserving foraged mushrooms over the preserving foraged mushrooms over the winter and so this book was really great winter and so this book was really great winter and so this book was really great at meeting me in that place and at meeting me in that place and at meeting me in that place and challenging me so some of the uh challenging me so some of the uh challenging me so some of the uh Concepts that I took away the first one Concepts that I took away the first one Concepts that I took away the first one is called Problem greed and the idea

is called Problem greed and the idea is called Problem greed and the idea behind this concept is that as we behind this concept is that as we behind this concept is that as we experience fewer problems we don't experience fewer problems we don't experience fewer problems we don't become more satisfied we just lower our become more satisfied we just lower our become more satisfied we just lower our threshold for what we consider to be a threshold for what we consider to be a threshold for what we consider to be a problem and is that not human nature problem and is that not human nature problem and is that not human nature right again this is not by a Christian right again this is not by a Christian right again this is not by a Christian author per se but is such a true concept author per se but is such a true concept author per se but is such a true concept that we would find in in scriptures like that we would find in in scriptures like that we would find in in scriptures like Humanity like you know we we could just Humanity like you know we we could just Humanity like you know we we could just make a problem out of anything and make a problem out of anything and make a problem out of anything and that's why there's so much throughout that's why there's so much throughout that's why there's so much throughout scripture of practicing gratefulness and scripture of practicing gratefulness and scripture of practicing gratefulness and the spiritual practice of gratitude the spiritual practice of gratitude the spiritual practice of gratitude because it's almost this prophetic because it's almost this prophetic because it's almost this prophetic resistance against as this author resistance against as this author resistance against as this author described it problem greed yeah we end described it problem greed yeah we end described it problem greed yeah we end up with the same amount of problems it's up with the same amount of problems it's up with the same amount of problems it's just our new problems become just our new problems become just our new problems become increasingly more Hollow so the problem increasingly more Hollow so the problem increasingly more Hollow so the problem might be when I am rushing to get to might be when I am rushing to get to might be when I am rushing to get to this podcast this morning and I'm making this podcast this morning and I'm making this podcast this morning and I'm making my oatmeal and I am in haste scooping my oatmeal and I am in haste scooping my oatmeal and I am in haste scooping the skure yogurt a little faster than I the skure yogurt a little faster than I the skure yogurt a little faster than I should be and it lands on my hand and I should be and it lands on my hand and I should be and it lands on my hand and I go go go oh I'm already late this is the worst oh I'm already late this is the worst oh I'm already late this is the worst thing that could happen and then oh one thing that could happen and then oh one thing that could happen and then oh one of our co-workers who got to the office of our co-workers who got to the office of our co-workers who got to the office first today posts in slack hey there's first today posts in slack hey there's first today posts in slack hey there's this beeping by the uh the router and this beeping by the uh the router and this beeping by the uh the router and I'm like I'm like I'm like beeping we have to record beeping we have to record beeping we have to record do you see what I mean concept number do you see what I mean concept number do you see what I mean concept number two Comfort creep kind of the evil two Comfort creep kind of the evil two Comfort creep kind of the evil brother of problem greed today's Comfort brother of problem greed today's Comfort brother of problem greed today's Comfort is tomorrow's discomfort the example is tomorrow's discomfort the example is tomorrow's discomfort the example that I always use for this is that the that I always use for this is that the that I always use for this is that the first time I flew on a plane no like the first time I flew on a plane no like the first time I flew on a plane no like the first 10 times my family like we never first 10 times my family like we never first 10 times my family like we never went on planes we definitely were not

went on planes we definitely were not went on planes we definitely were not buying the food that was on planes I buying the food that was on planes I buying the food that was on planes I remember the first time I bought the remember the first time I bought the remember the first time I bought the chicken wrap on an Air Canada flight and chicken wrap on an Air Canada flight and chicken wrap on an Air Canada flight and I was like I'm eating food in the air I was like I'm eating food in the air I was like I'm eating food in the air yeah this is the coolest thing that yeah this is the coolest thing that yeah this is the coolest thing that now I go on a flight they break out that now I go on a flight they break out that now I go on a flight they break out that styrofoam R and I go boo one time I had styrofoam R and I go boo one time I had styrofoam R and I go boo one time I had business class food I know what you business class food I know what you business class food I know what you really got back there so what was this really got back there so what was this really got back there so what was this luxury what was this like Pinnacle of luxury what was this like Pinnacle of luxury what was this like Pinnacle of this amazing experience has become like this amazing experience has become like this amazing experience has become like yuck and then concept number three the yuck and then concept number three the yuck and then concept number three the toughening phenomenon facing non toughening phenomenon facing non toughening phenomenon facing non overwhelming adversity is optimal for overwhelming adversity is optimal for overwhelming adversity is optimal for well-being I like to describe this as well-being I like to describe this as well-being I like to describe this as manufacturing adversity in your own life manufacturing adversity in your own life manufacturing adversity in your own life this can be as simple as like pushing this can be as simple as like pushing this can be as simple as like pushing yourself in a workout or deciding not to yourself in a workout or deciding not to yourself in a workout or deciding not to eat a comfort food it could be as simple eat a comfort food it could be as simple eat a comfort food it could be as simple as that but if all we do is live in uh as that but if all we do is live in uh as that but if all we do is live in uh Comfort it's actually bad for our Comfort it's actually bad for our Comfort it's actually bad for our well-being now on the other side of the well-being now on the other side of the well-being now on the other side of the spectrum if you're always in actual spectrum if you're always in actual spectrum if you're always in actual crisis that's not also optimal for your crisis that's not also optimal for your crisis that's not also optimal for your well-being but there's this nice Middle well-being but there's this nice Middle well-being but there's this nice Middle Ground where Ground where Ground where non overwhelming adversity is The Sweet non overwhelming adversity is The Sweet non overwhelming adversity is The Sweet Spot and so how can you find that in Spot and so how can you find that in Spot and so how can you find that in your life how can you manufacture it your life how can you manufacture it your life how can you manufacture it whether by pushing yourself physically whether by pushing yourself physically whether by pushing yourself physically or mentally or whatever it might be uh or mentally or whatever it might be uh or mentally or whatever it might be uh because otherwise you're kind of like because otherwise you're kind of like because otherwise you're kind of like you know you're you're experiencing you know you're you're experiencing you know you're you're experiencing atrophy in a sense you and I have talked atrophy in a sense you and I have talked atrophy in a sense you and I have talked about this book quite a bit but I'm just about this book quite a bit but I'm just about this book quite a bit but I'm just learning now that there is a bow hunting learning now that there is a bow hunting learning now that there is a bow hunting thread uh that weaves throughout the thread uh that weaves throughout the thread uh that weaves throughout the entire book and a lot of what you're entire book and a lot of what you're entire book and a lot of what you're describing resonates so deeply with me describing resonates so deeply with me describing resonates so deeply with me about my experience hunting and so I

about my experience hunting and so I about my experience hunting and so I might have to get the I don't know if might have to get the I don't know if might have to get the I don't know if there's a paperback version of that book there's a paperback version of that book there's a paperback version of that book but you don't like a hard copy no I do but you don't like a hard copy no I do but you don't like a hard copy no I do but uh not in the but uh not in the but uh not in the forest so I might pick it up and it forest so I might pick it up and it forest so I might pick it up and it might be my my hunting read this year oh might be my my hunting read this year oh might be my my hunting read this year oh right cuz mostly just doing nothing you right cuz mostly just doing nothing you right cuz mostly just doing nothing you do a lot of sitting and waiting yeah the do a lot of sitting and waiting yeah the do a lot of sitting and waiting yeah the meat is dry Mero red and resting in Rose meat is dry Mero red and resting in Rose meat is dry Mero red and resting in Rose there are two 50 lb hind quarters two there are two 50 lb hind quarters two there are two 50 lb hind quarters two 35b front quarters that's a big animal 35b front quarters that's a big animal 35b front quarters that's a big animal elk sounds like he's hunting elk that's elk sounds like he's hunting elk that's elk sounds like he's hunting elk that's a dream hunt for me okay okay you ready a dream hunt for me okay okay you ready a dream hunt for me okay okay you ready H yeah F number one yes this is called H yeah F number one yes this is called H yeah F number one yes this is called sinners in the hands of a loving God by sinners in the hands of a loving God by sinners in the hands of a loving God by Pastor Brian on he's a pastor from St Pastor Brian on he's a pastor from St Pastor Brian on he's a pastor from St Joseph Joseph Joseph Missouri and the forward Is by William Missouri and the forward Is by William Missouri and the forward Is by William Paul Young who wrote The Shack so two Paul Young who wrote The Shack so two Paul Young who wrote The Shack so two two kind of controversial uh Evangelical two kind of controversial uh Evangelical two kind of controversial uh Evangelical men um you know I was introduced to men um you know I was introduced to men um you know I was introduced to Brian zon by my dad and to this book by Brian zon by my dad and to this book by Brian zon by my dad and to this book by my dad and actually this book was my my dad and actually this book was my my dad and actually this book was my introduction to a very popular sermon if introduction to a very popular sermon if introduction to a very popular sermon if not one of the most popular sermons in not one of the most popular sermons in not one of the most popular sermons in American history called sinners in the American history called sinners in the American history called sinners in the hands of an Angry God the the title of hands of an Angry God the the title of hands of an Angry God the the title of this book is a play on that sermon uh this book is a play on that sermon uh this book is a play on that sermon uh the sermon was given by Jonathan Edwards the sermon was given by Jonathan Edwards the sermon was given by Jonathan Edwards in the 1740s we're talking like a 250 in the 1740s we're talking like a 250 in the 1740s we're talking like a 250 year-old sermon that has such Renown it year-old sermon that has such Renown it year-old sermon that has such Renown it has reverberated through American church has reverberated through American church has reverberated through American church history until this time and I want to history until this time and I want to history until this time and I want to read you an excerpt from that sermon uh read you an excerpt from that sermon uh read you an excerpt from that sermon uh which is found in this book uh early on which is found in this book uh early on which is found in this book uh early on in the book and this is the excerpt from in the book and this is the excerpt from in the book and this is the excerpt from that sermon if for those who are that sermon if for those who are that sermon if for those who are listening or watching who have no listening or watching who have no listening or watching who have no experience who have never heard of this

experience who have never heard of this experience who have never heard of this sermon before this is kind of this is sermon before this is kind of this is sermon before this is kind of this is the moment in this sermon this is the the moment in this sermon this is the the moment in this sermon this is the Apex moment uh Pastor Jonathan Edward Apex moment uh Pastor Jonathan Edward Apex moment uh Pastor Jonathan Edward says that god holds you over the pit of says that god holds you over the pit of says that god holds you over the pit of Hell much as one holds a spider or some Hell much as one holds a spider or some Hell much as one holds a spider or some loath some insect over the fire abhor loath some insect over the fire abhor loath some insect over the fire abhor you and is dreadfully provoked his wrath you and is dreadfully provoked his wrath you and is dreadfully provoked his wrath towards you burns like fire he looks towards you burns like fire he looks towards you burns like fire he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but upon you as worthy of nothing else but upon you as worthy of nothing else but to be cast Into the Fire he is of purer to be cast Into the Fire he is of purer to be cast Into the Fire he is of purer eyes than to Bear to have you in his eyes than to Bear to have you in his eyes than to Bear to have you in his sight you are 10,000 times so abominable sight you are 10,000 times so abominable sight you are 10,000 times so abominable in his eyes as the most hateful venomous in his eyes as the most hateful venomous in his eyes as the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours oh 10,000 abominable serpent is in ours oh 10,000 abominable serpent is in ours oh 10,000 abominable right right right so that's a lot and the success of this so that's a lot and the success of this so that's a lot and the success of this sermon and that sermon and that sermon and that idea um that still that still exists idea um that still that still exists idea um that still that still exists today is to coers people to believe in today is to coers people to believe in today is to coers people to believe in God by means of being more afraid of Mo God by means of being more afraid of Mo God by means of being more afraid of Mo Less in love with God and more afraid of Less in love with God and more afraid of Less in love with God and more afraid of what God can or will or even in this what God can or will or even in this what God can or will or even in this sense wants to do to you what what he sense wants to do to you what what he sense wants to do to you what what he thinks you deserve and so the image thinks you deserve and so the image thinks you deserve and so the image there that Jonathan Edwards is painting there that Jonathan Edwards is painting there that Jonathan Edwards is painting is is God holding you over a pit of fire is is God holding you over a pit of fire is is God holding you over a pit of fire like a spider and um the image that that like a spider and um the image that that like a spider and um the image that that Brian Zan paints on the whole thesis of Brian Zan paints on the whole thesis of Brian Zan paints on the whole thesis of this this entire book is that um God by this this entire book is that um God by this this entire book is that um God by nature is not wrath but by nature is nature is not wrath but by nature is nature is not wrath but by nature is love and so you can the image that love and so you can the image that love and so you can the image that Jonathan Edwards is painting is that Jonathan Edwards is painting is that Jonathan Edwards is painting is that wrathful God with the spider in his hand wrathful God with the spider in his hand wrathful God with the spider in his hand but the image that Brian chose for the but the image that Brian chose for the but the image that Brian chose for the cover is like a father cradling a son

cover is like a father cradling a son cover is like a father cradling a son and I don't know I like the thesis and I don't know I like the thesis and I don't know I like the thesis expands to suggest that that you know expands to suggest that that you know expands to suggest that that you know God is less like an indignant or power God is less like an indignant or power God is less like an indignant or power in the sky but more like a father who is in the sky but more like a father who is in the sky but more like a father who is just anxiously awaiting to throw a party just anxiously awaiting to throw a party just anxiously awaiting to throw a party for his long lost son and this idea was for his long lost son and this idea was for his long lost son and this idea was not new to me I never heard a sermon not new to me I never heard a sermon not new to me I never heard a sermon preached like Jonathan Edwards in my preached like Jonathan Edwards in my preached like Jonathan Edwards in my church growing up you didn't go to church growing up you didn't go to church growing up you didn't go to Heaven's Gates hell's flames never oh Heaven's Gates hell's flames never oh Heaven's Gates hell's flames never oh that was just my church yeah apparently that was just my church yeah apparently that was just my church yeah apparently my church invented that anyway go ahead my church invented that anyway go ahead my church invented that anyway go ahead and and that's what I want to say is and and that's what I want to say is and and that's what I want to say is like I grew up in a church in a place like I grew up in a church in a place like I grew up in a church in a place never hearing a sermon like that or never hearing a sermon like that or never hearing a sermon like that or theology that like even approached that theology that like even approached that theology that like even approached that idea that God is just so that God is idea that God is just so that God is idea that God is just so that God is wrath by nature and not love by nature wrath by nature and not love by nature wrath by nature and not love by nature but that idea like permeated the but that idea like permeated the but that idea like permeated the Evangelical culture that I grew up in in Evangelical culture that I grew up in in Evangelical culture that I grew up in in the '90s and and early 2000s and so the '90s and and early 2000s and so the '90s and and early 2000s and so although I didn't hear it locally in my although I didn't hear it locally in my although I didn't hear it locally in my church I heard it you know I I whether church I heard it you know I I whether church I heard it you know I I whether is at youth conferences or or I mean my is at youth conferences or or I mean my is at youth conferences or or I mean my dad was a pastor we went around and and dad was a pastor we went around and and dad was a pastor we went around and and like I knew that people believed that like I knew that people believed that like I knew that people believed that about God and I knew that people that about God and I knew that people that about God and I knew that people that were in my camp that were in my Christan were in my camp that were in my Christan were in my camp that were in my Christan tradition believe that about God and so tradition believe that about God and so tradition believe that about God and so this book didn't as much give me a new this book didn't as much give me a new this book didn't as much give me a new idea of what God is like but it put idea of what God is like but it put idea of what God is like but it put language to what I already believed language to what I already believed language to what I already believed about God and I felt so affirmed I felt about God and I felt so affirmed I felt about God and I felt so affirmed I felt so excited reading this book I I don't I so excited reading this book I I don't I so excited reading this book I I don't I don't know of another book that I've don't know of another book that I've don't know of another book that I've ever read that has made me feel like ever read that has made me feel like ever read that has made me feel like viscerally this deeply that has

viscerally this deeply that has viscerally this deeply that has resonated so deeply like a cord within resonated so deeply like a cord within resonated so deeply like a cord within me like yes this is what I believe um me like yes this is what I believe um me like yes this is what I believe um and so I'm not the kind of person to to and so I'm not the kind of person to to and so I'm not the kind of person to to read a book and go around and like read a book and go around and like read a book and go around and like buying copies and like just giving them buying copies and like just giving them buying copies and like just giving them to people like we all know that person to people like we all know that person to people like we all know that person or like the person who listens to a or like the person who listens to a or like the person who listens to a podcast and it changes their life so podcast and it changes their life so podcast and it changes their life so they just text it to everyone they know they just text it to everyone they know they just text it to everyone they know they post on Facebook like everyone they post on Facebook like everyone they post on Facebook like everyone needs to listen to this podcast I'm not needs to listen to this podcast I'm not needs to listen to this podcast I'm not like like like that but in my life and and we're that but in my life and and we're that but in my life and and we're talking about Christian leadership here talking about Christian leadership here talking about Christian leadership here um you're you're leading a big Christian um you're you're leading a big Christian um you're you're leading a big Christian company I'm leading a small Christian company I'm leading a small Christian company I'm leading a small Christian Church um like in my life and Ministry Church um like in my life and Ministry Church um like in my life and Ministry this book comes up often because this this book comes up often because this this book comes up often because this idea comes up often it's like God is mad idea comes up often it's like God is mad idea comes up often it's like God is mad at me God doesn't like me God hates me at me God doesn't like me God hates me at me God doesn't like me God hates me and my my immediate response is like and my my immediate response is like and my my immediate response is like well God the story that Jesus tells is well God the story that Jesus tells is well God the story that Jesus tells is that God is like a father who just wants that God is like a father who just wants that God is like a father who just wants his son to come home and when he does his son to come home and when he does his son to come home and when he does come home has arms open wide and wants come home has arms open wide and wants come home has arms open wide and wants to throw a party and so this book comes to throw a party and so this book comes to throw a party and so this book comes up and to the point where when I grab up and to the point where when I grab up and to the point where when I grab this this copy off my shelf this morning this this copy off my shelf this morning this this copy off my shelf this morning this is not my copy I my copy is all this is not my copy I my copy is all this is not my copy I my copy is all marked up this is not my copy somebody marked up this is not my copy somebody marked up this is not my copy somebody has my copy because I do pass around has my copy because I do pass around has my copy because I do pass around this book often you give away your copy this book often you give away your copy this book often you give away your copy yeah um intimate yes because like I I yeah um intimate yes because like I I yeah um intimate yes because like I I know people who believe in Jonathan know people who believe in Jonathan know people who believe in Jonathan Edwards sermon more than they believe in Edwards sermon more than they believe in Edwards sermon more than they believe in The Sermon on the Mount for example or The Sermon on the Mount for example or The Sermon on the Mount for example or the words of Jesus and this book is such the words of Jesus and this book is such the words of Jesus and this book is such an effective vehicle at getting getting an effective vehicle at getting getting an effective vehicle at getting getting you there getting away from the idea of

you there getting away from the idea of you there getting away from the idea of God being so angry that he he wants to God being so angry that he he wants to God being so angry that he he wants to he wants to drop you as a spider Into he wants to drop you as a spider Into he wants to drop you as a spider Into the Fire and towards it IDE of him being the Fire and towards it IDE of him being the Fire and towards it IDE of him being so loving that he just wants to uh he so loving that he just wants to uh he so loving that he just wants to uh he just wants to welcome you home so yeah just wants to welcome you home so yeah just wants to welcome you home so yeah when we first started talking about when we first started talking about when we first started talking about three these three books that we wanted three these three books that we wanted three these three books that we wanted to talk about this was the absolute to talk about this was the absolute to talk about this was the absolute first one that came to mind excellent do first one that came to mind excellent do first one that came to mind excellent do you know when you first read it within the last decade yeah so your it within the last decade yeah so your early 20s yeah so very formative time early 20s yeah so very formative time early 20s yeah so very formative time right right in the most formative time right right in the most formative time right right in the most formative time of my life so far um or my adult life so of my life so far um or my adult life so of my life so far um or my adult life so far when I'm really putting together far when I'm really putting together far when I'm really putting together like what I believe for myself and like like what I believe for myself and like like what I believe for myself and like I said it was just as reading it I was I said it was just as reading it I was I said it was just as reading it I was like oh I already believe this but I'm like oh I already believe this but I'm like oh I already believe this but I'm not sure I would have known how to not sure I would have known how to not sure I would have known how to articulate it this well so it it gave articulate it this well so it it gave articulate it this well so it it gave language to what I knew I already language to what I knew I already language to what I knew I already believed and my dad deserves a lot of believed and my dad deserves a lot of believed and my dad deserves a lot of credit for that because he is not just credit for that because he is not just credit for that because he is not just my dad but he's my pastor and so he's my dad but he's my pastor and so he's my dad but he's my pastor and so he's responsible for portraying a responsible for portraying a responsible for portraying a uh you know the predominant image of uh you know the predominant image of uh you know the predominant image of what God is like to me and reading this what God is like to me and reading this what God is like to me and reading this book I realized oh my dad my dad has book I realized oh my dad my dad has book I realized oh my dad my dad has taught me that this is what God is like taught me that this is what God is like taught me that this is what God is like mhm yeah outstanding second book that mhm yeah outstanding second book that mhm yeah outstanding second book that I've got outlive the science and art of I've got outlive the science and art of I've got outlive the science and art of longevity by Peter AA MD it's a big one longevity by Peter AA MD it's a big one longevity by Peter AA MD it's a big one this is the first book by Peter T what this is the first book by Peter T what this is the first book by Peter T what he claims will be the last really he claims will be the last really he claims will be the last really because uh this is one of those books because uh this is one of those books because uh this is one of those books that's with someone uh because it was that's with someone uh because it was that's with someone uh because it was quite quite a beast to put together as quite quite a beast to put together as quite quite a beast to put together as you can see yes quite large so this book you can see yes quite large so this book you can see yes quite large so this book if the first book came to me and was if the first book came to me and was if the first book came to me and was kind of speaking to my mental toughness

kind of speaking to my mental toughness kind of speaking to my mental toughness this book came to me during a period this book came to me during a period this book came to me during a period where I was examining my physical where I was examining my physical where I was examining my physical toughness so April of this year and the toughness so April of this year and the toughness so April of this year and the thesis behind this book is that death thesis behind this book is that death thesis behind this book is that death comes at two speeds fast and slow so comes at two speeds fast and slow so comes at two speeds fast and slow so doctor talks about in the early 1900s doctor talks about in the early 1900s doctor talks about in the early 1900s most people were dying of fast deaths most people were dying of fast deaths most people were dying of fast deaths before the age of 50 whether that was an before the age of 50 whether that was an before the age of 50 whether that was an accident infectious disease or something accident infectious disease or something accident infectious disease or something similar whereas today most folks die of similar whereas today most folks die of similar whereas today most folks die of slow deaths in their 70s or ' 80s and he slow deaths in their 70s or ' 80s and he slow deaths in their 70s or ' 80s and he outlines what he calls The Four Horsemen outlines what he calls The Four Horsemen outlines what he calls The Four Horsemen of long death those being heart disease of long death those being heart disease of long death those being heart disease cancer neurodegenerative dis disease and cancer neurodegenerative dis disease and cancer neurodegenerative dis disease and type 2 diabetes SL related metabolic type 2 diabetes SL related metabolic type 2 diabetes SL related metabolic dysfunction each of the four horsemen dysfunction each of the four horsemen dysfunction each of the four horsemen are intricately complex which is why are intricately complex which is why are intricately complex which is why they're kind of long death sort of they're kind of long death sort of they're kind of long death sort of things it's not complex if you get hit things it's not complex if you get hit things it's not complex if you get hit by a car during an accident that is by a car during an accident that is by a car during an accident that is quite understandable how the mechanism quite understandable how the mechanism quite understandable how the mechanism of death came about he describes these of death came about he describes these of death came about he describes these four horsemen more of a disease process four horsemen more of a disease process four horsemen more of a disease process than an acute illness each one is than an acute illness each one is than an acute illness each one is cumulative and the reason that matters cumulative and the reason that matters cumulative and the reason that matters is because every one of us has is because every one of us has is because every one of us has incredible uh sway over how much these incredible uh sway over how much these incredible uh sway over how much these affect us there are of course genetic affect us there are of course genetic affect us there are of course genetic factors but there's so much that we can factors but there's so much that we can factors but there's so much that we can do and the younger you start the better do and the younger you start the better do and the younger you start the better and this doctor has a history of being and this doctor has a history of being and this doctor has a history of being this outstanding boxer uh and athlete this outstanding boxer uh and athlete this outstanding boxer uh and athlete Marathon athlete endurance athlete and

Marathon athlete endurance athlete and Marathon athlete endurance athlete and he got to a certain age I think in his he got to a certain age I think in his he got to a certain age I think in his 40s and he was like he's a lot wired 40s and he was like he's a lot wired 40s and he was like he's a lot wired like us like I like us like I like us like I I've I've achieved like the boxing I've I've achieved like the boxing I've I've achieved like the boxing things I wanted to achieve and I've things I wanted to achieve and I've things I wanted to achieve and I've achieved swimming across whatever you achieved swimming across whatever you achieved swimming across whatever you know Channel that I wanted to to swim know Channel that I wanted to to swim know Channel that I wanted to to swim past like and he stared to feel like I'm past like and he stared to feel like I'm past like and he stared to feel like I'm working out but I don't know why so he working out but I don't know why so he working out but I don't know why so he comes up with this process uh this idea comes up with this process uh this idea comes up with this process uh this idea called the centenarian decathlon and the called the centenarian decathlon and the called the centenarian decathlon and the centenarian decathlon is uh 10 events centenarian decathlon is uh 10 events centenarian decathlon is uh 10 events similar to an Olympic decathlon that he similar to an Olympic decathlon that he similar to an Olympic decathlon that he wants to be able to do when he's 100 wants to be able to do when he's 100 wants to be able to do when he's 100 years old and the point isn't that he years old and the point isn't that he years old and the point isn't that he lives to 100 and he's able to do them lives to 100 and he's able to do them lives to 100 and he's able to do them the point is longevity in the sense that the point is longevity in the sense that the point is longevity in the sense that not how long can I live but how well can not how long can I live but how well can not how long can I live but how well can I live for as many years as God gives me I live for as many years as God gives me I live for as many years as God gives me and he's beg doing this with his own and he's beg doing this with his own and he's beg doing this with his own patients he has them outlin they patients he has them outlin they patients he has them outlin they centinary and to Cath line he's like hey centinary and to Cath line he's like hey centinary and to Cath line he's like hey do you want to be able to pick up a 20 do you want to be able to pick up a 20 do you want to be able to pick up a 20 PB suitcase and put it in the overhead PB suitcase and put it in the overhead PB suitcase and put it in the overhead compartment when you're 100 oh I do okay compartment when you're 100 oh I do okay compartment when you're 100 oh I do okay well you're 50 can you do this right now well you're 50 can you do this right now well you're 50 can you do this right now because we know that strength decreases because we know that strength decreases because we know that strength decreases at this percentage over this amount of at this percentage over this amount of at this percentage over this amount of decades so if you can't do this now decades so if you can't do this now decades so if you can't do this now there's no hope for you doing it then there's no hope for you doing it then there's no hope for you doing it then and people like oh he's like if you want and people like oh he's like if you want and people like oh he's like if you want to be able to do this if you want to be to be able to do this if you want to be to be able to do this if you want to be able to walk up a flight of stairs on able to walk up a flight of stairs on able to walk up a flight of stairs on your own at the age 100 then your V2 Max your own at the age 100 then your V2 Max your own at the age 100 then your V2 Max at the age of 40 needs to be this and at the age of 40 needs to be this and at the age of 40 needs to be this and yours is half that so you're not going yours is half that so you're not going yours is half that so you're not going to make it you need to make start you to make it you need to make start you to make it you need to make start you need to start making changes now and so need to start making changes now and so need to start making changes now and so for me this meets me in a place where for me this meets me in a place where for me this meets me in a place where I'm young enough to hear this and be I'm young enough to hear this and be I'm young enough to hear this and be like oh okay I have tremendous sway over like oh okay I have tremendous sway over like oh okay I have tremendous sway over these outcomes in my own life okay I I these outcomes in my own life okay I I these outcomes in my own life okay I I want to be able to do that and it also want to be able to do that and it also want to be able to do that and it also helped Channel my kind of ambition helped Channel my kind of ambition helped Channel my kind of ambition towards something that is never truly towards something that is never truly towards something that is never truly achievable but is always going to be

achievable but is always going to be achievable but is always going to be like healthy in the here and now it's like healthy in the here and now it's like healthy in the here and now it's not just like oh I want to get to this not just like oh I want to get to this not just like oh I want to get to this body fat percentage or I want to have body fat percentage or I want to have body fat percentage or I want to have this much muscle mass or I want to look this much muscle mass or I want to look this much muscle mass or I want to look this good you know on this vacation this good you know on this vacation this good you know on this vacation whatever it might be it was something whatever it might be it was something whatever it might be it was something that would truly pay dividends for every that would truly pay dividends for every that would truly pay dividends for every area of life and you know if this first area of life and you know if this first area of life and you know if this first one is all about like mental toughness one is all about like mental toughness one is all about like mental toughness this is physical toughness this is like this is physical toughness this is like this is physical toughness this is like the fact that hey despite the fall one the fact that hey despite the fall one the fact that hey despite the fall one of the amazing outcomes is that every of the amazing outcomes is that every of the amazing outcomes is that every one of us Bears the image and likeness one of us Bears the image and likeness one of us Bears the image and likeness of God that means that I am a caretaker of God that means that I am a caretaker of God that means that I am a caretaker in many senses of that image and in many senses of that image and in many senses of that image and likeness and I want to be the best likeness and I want to be the best likeness and I want to be the best caretaker that I possibly can be and so caretaker that I possibly can be and so caretaker that I possibly can be and so this led to a slew of different things this led to a slew of different things this led to a slew of different things one I got some blood work done and it one I got some blood work done and it one I got some blood work done and it revealed a couple of things that I need revealed a couple of things that I need revealed a couple of things that I need to work on I never would have known Not to work on I never would have known Not to work on I never would have known Not only would I not have known I would have only would I not have known I would have only would I not have known I would have not known what they were like hey this not known what they were like hey this not known what they were like hey this is this is not as good as it could be is this is not as good as it could be is this is not as good as it could be like I don't know what that is right I like I don't know what that is right I like I don't know what that is right I don't know how to improve I don't even don't know how to improve I don't even don't know how to improve I don't even know what it means what like the know what it means what like the know what it means what like the implications are of it not being good implications are of it not being good implications are of it not being good and then I've yet to tell you this but I and then I've yet to tell you this but I and then I've yet to tell you this but I did another series of tests this past did another series of tests this past did another series of tests this past Friday I had to drive all the way to Friday I had to drive all the way to Friday I had to drive all the way to Toronto and I met with a clinician and Toronto and I met with a clinician and Toronto and I met with a clinician and they ran me through a series of four they ran me through a series of four they ran me through a series of four tests so the first was aexa scan which tests so the first was aexa scan which tests so the first was aexa scan which I've wanted to do for a long time it's I've wanted to do for a long time it's I've wanted to do for a long time it's dexa is body fat percentage muscle mass dexa is body fat percentage muscle mass dexa is body fat percentage muscle mass bone mineral density visceral fat okay bone mineral density visceral fat okay bone mineral density visceral fat okay so I did that then I did a 3D shape test so I did that then I did a 3D shape test so I did that then I did a 3D shape test where they like have you on this like where they like have you on this like where they like have you on this like spinning thing and it gets you now I spinning thing and it gets you now I spinning thing and it gets you now I actually kind of have already done that actually kind of have already done that actually kind of have already done that at home I have this spandex suit that at home I have this spandex suit that at home I have this spandex suit that has a lot of dots on it and you just has a lot of dots on it and you just has a lot of dots on it and you just like take a picture 1:00 2:00 3:00 on like take a picture 1:00 2:00 3:00 on like take a picture 1:00 2:00 3:00 on your phone like creates it they were your phone like creates it they were your phone like creates it they were very close and the clinician was like very close and the clinician was like very close and the clinician was like how are these so close he's like you how are these so close he's like you how are these so close he's like you know you never know when Tech is going

know you never know when Tech is going know you never know when Tech is going to put me out of a job the third one was to put me out of a job the third one was to put me out of a job the third one was a metabolic test and the fourth one was a metabolic test and the fourth one was a metabolic test and the fourth one was a VO2 max test which is we all know what a VO2 max test which is we all know what a VO2 max test which is we all know what this looks like it's in the movies where this looks like it's in the movies where this looks like it's in the movies where the person's wearing that thing on the the person's wearing that thing on the the person's wearing that thing on the mask and that mask on their face and mask and that mask on their face and mask and that mask on their face and they're running on the treadmill it's they're running on the treadmill it's they're running on the treadmill it's like oh I'm training for a big thing like oh I'm training for a big thing like oh I'm training for a big thing that's a VO2 max test so briefly here that's a VO2 max test so briefly here that's a VO2 max test so briefly here were the two things that came out of were the two things that came out of were the two things that came out of this test first my VO2 max was in the this test first my VO2 max was in the this test first my VO2 max was in the 90th percentile for my age group he's 90th percentile for my age group he's 90th percentile for my age group he's like he's like you must do a lot of like he's like you must do a lot of like he's like you must do a lot of endurance training so that was going to endurance training so that was going to endurance training so that was going to be my question which is I know you and I be my question which is I know you and I be my question which is I know you and I know you don't do any endurance training know you don't do any endurance training know you don't do any endurance training which not to your discredit it's just which not to your discredit it's just which not to your discredit it's just like you prefer to lift weights and you like you prefer to lift weights and you like you prefer to lift weights and you go for a walk every day which is great go for a walk every day which is great go for a walk every day which is great yes but like so where's that coming from yes but like so where's that coming from yes but like so where's that coming from yeah no that's great yeah he's like oh yeah no that's great yeah he's like oh yeah no that's great yeah he's like oh then it's just genetic okay cuz he says then it's just genetic okay cuz he says then it's just genetic okay cuz he says I he's like I run 50 kilometers a week I he's like I run 50 kilometers a week I he's like I run 50 kilometers a week I'm I'm 10 years older than you my V2 I'm I'm 10 years older than you my V2 I'm I'm 10 years older than you my V2 Max is about like 70% of yours W he's Max is about like 70% of yours W he's Max is about like 70% of yours W he's like you should compete in 5K I was like like you should compete in 5K I was like like you should compete in 5K I was like I was like no no I I want to get big I I was like no no I I want to get big I I was like no no I I want to get big I want to have muscle he's like no no no want to have muscle he's like no no no want to have muscle he's like no no no no you're not PR disposed to that for no you're not PR disposed to that for no you're not PR disposed to that for this but long distance like he's like this but long distance like he's like this but long distance like he's like you know I was like oh okay he's like you know I was like oh okay he's like you know I was like oh okay he's like for you to come in untrained and score for you to come in untrained and score for you to come in untrained and score that high on a V2 Max he's like you play that high on a V2 Max he's like you play that high on a V2 Max he's like you play a lot of sports I was like no like it's a lot of sports I was like no like it's a lot of sports I was like no like it's been a decade since I played a sport I I been a decade since I played a sport I I been a decade since I played a sport I I just need to say this I'm not prepared just need to say this I'm not prepared just need to say this I'm not prepared for you to go through like a 50 lb cut for you to go through like a 50 lb cut for you to go through like a 50 lb cut and start and start running to work and start and start running to work and start and start running to work please don't I don't want this in my please don't I don't want this in my please don't I don't want this in my life yeah he's like I want you to life yeah he's like I want you to life yeah he's like I want you to compete I was like I don't want to so it compete I was like I don't want to so it compete I was like I don't want to so it was kind of disappointing because like was kind of disappointing because like was kind of disappointing because like the great score was not something that I the great score was not something that I the great score was not something that I had worked hard to achieve but was just had worked hard to achieve but was just had worked hard to achieve but was just given to me and and he was saying he's given to me and and he was saying he's given to me and and he was saying he's like you know you really should do

like you know you really should do like you know you really should do something with this cuz others of us something with this cuz others of us something with this cuz others of us we're out in these right wasted we're out in these right wasted we're out in these right wasted potential yeah potential yeah potential yeah precisely it gets worse the metabolic precisely it gets worse the metabolic precisely it gets worse the metabolic test was not something I expected to do test was not something I expected to do test was not something I expected to do the metabolic test is was developed I the metabolic test is was developed I the metabolic test is was developed I think to actually like help with burn think to actually like help with burn think to actually like help with burn victims but the test is now used to help victims but the test is now used to help victims but the test is now used to help understand like what is your resting understand like what is your resting understand like what is your resting metabolic rate meaning if you in a metabolic rate meaning if you in a metabolic rate meaning if you in a hospital bed how many calories would you hospital bed how many calories would you hospital bed how many calories would you need to just like maintain and then need to just like maintain and then need to just like maintain and then there's a qualifier or a there's a qualifier or a there's a qualifier or a quantifier um for how many calories you quantifier um for how many calories you quantifier um for how many calories you would need on top of that for just like would need on top of that for just like would need on top of that for just like walking around and then there's a final walking around and then there's a final walking around and then there's a final one for exercise so he comes in and this one for exercise so he comes in and this one for exercise so he comes in and this before we even talked about the VO2 max before we even talked about the VO2 max before we even talked about the VO2 max he looks at me and he goes first thing he looks at me and he goes first thing he looks at me and he goes first thing he says after we do all the test he sits he says after we do all the test he sits he says after we do all the test he sits down he's like do you ever feel like you down he's like do you ever feel like you down he's like do you ever feel like you can just can just can just eat like yeah I go I feel that yeah he's eat like yeah I go I feel that yeah he's eat like yeah I go I feel that yeah he's like I have never seen a like I have never seen a like I have never seen a metabolism the way yours just scored no metabolism the way yours just scored no metabolism the way yours just scored no way he says the average person of your way he says the average person of your way he says the average person of your age and weight and gender should have a age and weight and gender should have a age and weight and gender should have a resting metabolic rate an RMR of 1750 resting metabolic rate an RMR of 1750 resting metabolic rate an RMR of 1750 calories sure meaning if you just we in calories sure meaning if you just we in calories sure meaning if you just we in a hospital bed that's how much you need a hospital bed that's how much you need a hospital bed that's how much you need to kind of just like maintain your to kind of just like maintain your to kind of just like maintain your weight he's like you have 750 more weight he's like you have 750 more weight he's like you have 750 more calories than that so your base is 2500 calories than that so your base is 2500 calories than that so your base is 2500 he's like which means just from like he's like which means just from like he's like which means just from like having a sedentary job and like not having a sedentary job and like not having a sedentary job and like not being in hospital bed you need to eat being in hospital bed you need to eat being in hospital bed you need to eat 3,200 calories a day to just maintain 3,200 calories a day to just maintain 3,200 calories a day to just maintain your weight that is so much food and he your weight that is so much food and he your weight that is so much food and he said like have you ever found that and I said like have you ever found that and I said like have you ever found that and I took out my spreadsheet yeah with my took out my spreadsheet yeah with my took out my spreadsheet yeah with my daily weighin that daily weighin that daily weighin that quantifies your needed calories based on

quantifies your needed calories based on quantifies your needed calories based on your daily weigh-ins and I said it's 200 your daily weigh-ins and I said it's 200 your daily weigh-ins and I said it's 200 exactly he's like well that confirms it exactly he's like well that confirms it exactly he's like well that confirms it you did your test at home we did the you did your test at home we did the you did your test at home we did the metabolic test he's like that means if metabolic test he's like that means if metabolic test he's like that means if you add exercise for instance if you ran you add exercise for instance if you ran you add exercise for instance if you ran a 5k right you'd be at a 5k right you'd be at a 5k right you'd be at 3600 calories a day just to maintain 3600 calories a day just to maintain 3600 calories a day just to maintain this is where it gets worse then he this is where it gets worse then he this is where it gets worse then he looks at my body fat percentage he's looks at my body fat percentage he's looks at my body fat percentage he's like put 20.7% he goes you know we can like put 20.7% he goes you know we can like put 20.7% he goes you know we can improve improve improve that basically what he said was you have that basically what he said was you have that basically what he said was you have an amazing V2 Max your your metabolism an amazing V2 Max your your metabolism an amazing V2 Max your your metabolism is outstanding you've done nothing with is outstanding you've done nothing with is outstanding you've done nothing with either of those things it goes your either of those things it goes your either of those things it goes your muscle mass about exactly average for a muscle mass about exactly average for a muscle mass about exactly average for a person of your age he's like have you person of your age he's like have you person of your age he's like have you ever lifted before and I was like yes I ever lifted before and I was like yes I ever lifted before and I was like yes I lift every day I lift so much so in one lift every day I lift so much so in one lift every day I lift so much so in one sense I was like thanks Dad on the other sense I was like thanks Dad on the other sense I was like thanks Dad on the other sense I was like this is so upsetting sense I was like this is so upsetting sense I was like this is so upsetting yeah so but anyway this book is what led yeah so but anyway this book is what led yeah so but anyway this book is what led me to this pain uh in my life so wow me to this pain uh in my life so wow me to this pain uh in my life so wow thank you that's mental toughness we got thank you that's mental toughness we got thank you that's mental toughness we got physical toughness and now back over to physical toughness and now back over to physical toughness and now back over to you and now you have more data points you and now you have more data points you and now you have more data points dude I have a new spreadsheet called dude I have a new spreadsheet called dude I have a new spreadsheet called benchmarks that is going to be like over benchmarks that is going to be like over benchmarks that is going to be like over 40 years we're going to track this it's 40 years we're going to track this it's 40 years we're going to track this it's exciting wow well hey we mentioned exciting wow well hey we mentioned exciting wow well hey we mentioned Eugene Peterson earlier I've talked Eugene Peterson earlier I've talked Eugene Peterson earlier I've talked about him on the show and for those of about him on the show and for those of about him on the show and for those of you just tuning in or maybe I haven't you just tuning in or maybe I haven't you just tuning in or maybe I haven't said it this explicitly on the show this said it this explicitly on the show this said it this explicitly on the show this year I turned 30 and I am not much for year I turned 30 and I am not much for year I turned 30 and I am not much for like sentimentality around dates like like sentimentality around dates like like sentimentality around dates like that birthdays anniversaries like I just that birthdays anniversaries like I just that birthdays anniversaries like I just I I'm just not wired for that I just I I'm just not wired for that I just I I'm just not wired for that I just don't care so turning 30 to me meant don't care so turning 30 to me meant don't care so turning 30 to me meant really not much at all um

really not much at all um really not much at all um although in saying that I felt although in saying that I felt although in saying that I felt internally this like I still don't know internally this like I still don't know internally this like I still don't know how to describe it but like this Grace how to describe it but like this Grace how to describe it but like this Grace or like this prompting this leaning into or like this prompting this leaning into or like this prompting this leaning into like stepping into a new season of my like stepping into a new season of my like stepping into a new season of my pastoral work and it coincided with pastoral work and it coincided with pastoral work and it coincided with turning 30 I don't know if it just like turning 30 I don't know if it just like turning 30 I don't know if it just like if I'm if I'm letting go of a kid if I'm if I'm letting go of a kid if I'm if I'm letting go of a kid complex because I feel like being in complex because I feel like being in complex because I feel like being in your 20s you're kind of like a kid but your 20s you're kind of like a kid but your 20s you're kind of like a kid but being 30 is like a grown-up I don't know being 30 is like a grown-up I don't know being 30 is like a grown-up I don't know what it is there's there's a part of what it is there's there's a part of what it is there's there's a part of that to it so all of that to say I yes that to it so all of that to say I yes that to it so all of that to say I yes have just been stepping into new Grace have just been stepping into new Grace have just been stepping into new Grace in my pastoral Ministry and I knew I in my pastoral Ministry and I knew I in my pastoral Ministry and I knew I needed help with that and in a time needed help with that and in a time needed help with that and in a time where a lot of popular preachers and where a lot of popular preachers and where a lot of popular preachers and pastors seem to be falling in many pastors seem to be falling in many pastors seem to be falling in many senses of that word I needed to look senses of that word I needed to look senses of that word I needed to look towards someone who finished well who towards someone who finished well who towards someone who finished well who ran the entire race well and is done you ran the entire race well and is done you ran the entire race well and is done you know and so Eugene Peters was the first know and so Eugene Peters was the first know and so Eugene Peters was the first one that came to mind I have some I have one that came to mind I have some I have one that came to mind I have some I have some real life people who who I'm some real life people who who I'm some real life people who who I'm working through this with but Eugene working through this with but Eugene working through this with but Eugene Peterson was the first one that came to Peterson was the first one that came to Peterson was the first one that came to mind he his Memoir is called Pastor he mind he his Memoir is called Pastor he mind he his Memoir is called Pastor he is he is a pastor's pastor and from from is he is a pastor's pastor and from from is he is a pastor's pastor and from from all accounts he lived and finished well all accounts he lived and finished well all accounts he lived and finished well he died in 2018 I think and so this year he died in 2018 I think and so this year he died in 2018 I think and so this year I've dedicated to only reading Eugene I've dedicated to only reading Eugene I've dedicated to only reading Eugene Peterson which has Peterson which has Peterson which has been a large undertaking and coming to been a large undertaking and coming to been a large undertaking and coming to the end of this year I just finished an the end of this year I just finished an the end of this year I just finished an another one of his books this morning I

another one of his books this morning I another one of his books this morning I feel like I feel like I know him as well feel like I feel like I know him as well feel like I feel like I know him as well as you can know him from a distance and as you can know him from a distance and as you can know him from a distance and so it was hard for me to not for all so it was hard for me to not for all so it was hard for me to not for all through my books not be Peterson books through my books not be Peterson books through my books not be Peterson books um but the one that I have read that has um but the one that I have read that has um but the one that I have read that has really shaped my practically my really shaped my practically my really shaped my practically my Christian leadership my pastoral Christian leadership my pastoral Christian leadership my pastoral Ministry is this one called Working The Ministry is this one called Working The Ministry is this one called Working The Angles the uh subtitle is called the Angles the uh subtitle is called the Angles the uh subtitle is called the shape of pastoral integrity and this is shape of pastoral integrity and this is shape of pastoral integrity and this is his this is his book book about being a his this is his book book about being a his this is his book book about being a pastor and what like um practically pastor and what like um practically pastor and what like um practically being a pastor and what that looks like being a pastor and what that looks like being a pastor and what that looks like so the thesis is in the same way that a so the thesis is in the same way that a so the thesis is in the same way that a triangle has three angles pastoral triangle has three angles pastoral triangle has three angles pastoral Ministry has three angles that are that Ministry has three angles that are that Ministry has three angles that are that require attention and that give strength require attention and that give strength require attention and that give strength and structure to the whole thing and he and structure to the whole thing and he and structure to the whole thing and he says this that these three pastoral acts says this that these three pastoral acts says this that these three pastoral acts are so basic so critical that they are so basic so critical that they are so basic so critical that they determine the shape of everything else determine the shape of everything else determine the shape of everything else um but he says besides being basic they um but he says besides being basic they um but he says besides being basic they these acts are are quiet and in some these acts are are quiet and in some these acts are are quiet and in some ways um unseen and the three acts are ways um unseen and the three acts are ways um unseen and the three acts are prayer scripture reading and um giving prayer scripture reading and um giving prayer scripture reading and um giving spiritual direction or pastoral spiritual direction or pastoral spiritual direction or pastoral care and the entire thesis of this book care and the entire thesis of this book care and the entire thesis of this book and the nature of those three acts being and the nature of those three acts being and the nature of those three acts being so quiet and invisible um it kind of so quiet and invisible um it kind of so quiet and invisible um it kind of swims Upstream against the popular idea swims Upstream against the popular idea swims Upstream against the popular idea that as Leaders you know we need to be that as Leaders you know we need to be that as Leaders you know we need to be more productive um more efficient more

more productive um more efficient more more productive um more efficient more impressive all for the sake of the impressive all for the sake of the impressive all for the sake of the Gospel of course you know but Eugene Gospel of course you know but Eugene Gospel of course you know but Eugene suggests here in this book that the suggests here in this book that the suggests here in this book that the strength of any Pastor or Christian strength of any Pastor or Christian strength of any Pastor or Christian leader um is built on things and leader um is built on things and leader um is built on things and specifically these three things that are specifically these three things that are specifically these three things that are that are quiet um often entirely hidden that are quiet um often entirely hidden that are quiet um often entirely hidden um and these angles are prayer scripture um and these angles are prayer scripture um and these angles are prayer scripture reading and giving spiritual Direction reading and giving spiritual Direction reading and giving spiritual Direction so in my pastoral Ministry in my in my so in my pastoral Ministry in my in my so in my pastoral Ministry in my in my Christian leadership ship um they those Christian leadership ship um they those Christian leadership ship um they those three things were not foreign to me of three things were not foreign to me of three things were not foreign to me of course and so it was both an affirmation course and so it was both an affirmation course and so it was both an affirmation to me U but also um an Enlightenment of to me U but also um an Enlightenment of to me U but also um an Enlightenment of the way that a seasoned Pastor prays the the way that a seasoned Pastor prays the the way that a seasoned Pastor prays the way that a seasoned Pastor reads way that a seasoned Pastor reads way that a seasoned Pastor reads scripture the way that a seasoned pastor scripture the way that a seasoned pastor scripture the way that a seasoned pastor and Christian leader um gives pastoral and Christian leader um gives pastoral and Christian leader um gives pastoral care um I've talked about Sabbath on the care um I've talked about Sabbath on the care um I've talked about Sabbath on the show before and that was part of this show before and that was part of this show before and that was part of this book in his in his portion on on book in his in his portion on on book in his in his portion on on prayer talking about Sabbath and rest prayer talking about Sabbath and rest prayer talking about Sabbath and rest and he defined Sabbath as praying and and he defined Sabbath as praying and and he defined Sabbath as praying and playing and that has been so personally playing and that has been so personally playing and that has been so personally transformative to me um in the way that transformative to me um in the way that transformative to me um in the way that like a lot of leadership books aren't a like a lot of leadership books aren't a like a lot of leadership books aren't a lot of leadership books say well you lot of leadership books say well you lot of leadership books say well you need to like you need to make more use need to like you need to make more use need to like you need to make more use of your waking hours you need to be more of your waking hours you need to be more of your waking hours you need to be more productive and Eugene's saying like you productive and Eugene's saying like you productive and Eugene's saying like you need to you need to not do anything you need to you need to not do anything you need to you need to not do anything you need to play and pray and in the resting need to play and pray and in the resting need to play and pray and in the resting in the not doing you will be a more um in the not doing you will be a more um in the not doing you will be a more um holistic pastor and person husband holistic pastor and person husband holistic pastor and person husband father friend um Christian leader and so father friend um Christian leader and so father friend um Christian leader and so all of his books have

all of his books have all of his books have really shaped who I am as a as they are really shaped who I am as a as they are really shaped who I am as a as they are shaping who I'm becoming as a pastor and shaping who I'm becoming as a pastor and shaping who I'm becoming as a pastor and as a Christian leader but like as a Christian leader but like as a Christian leader but like practically this is the one where it's practically this is the one where it's practically this is the one where it's like okay you got three things to focus like okay you got three things to focus like okay you got three things to focus on these things these three things are on these things these three things are on these things these three things are the foundation of everything else and the foundation of everything else and the foundation of everything else and you're going to do most of them in quiet you're going to do most of them in quiet you're going to do most of them in quiet nobody's really going to see you doing nobody's really going to see you doing nobody's really going to see you doing these things but what they will see is these things but what they will see is these things but what they will see is the fruit of them excellent the fruit of them excellent the fruit of them excellent third book that I've got uh I've been third book that I've got uh I've been third book that I've got uh I've been calling it is it okay so yeah this one calling it is it okay so yeah this one calling it is it okay so yeah this one I've only read and by red I mean listen I've only read and by red I mean listen I've only read and by red I mean listen to and I was like oh maybe Amazon can to and I was like oh maybe Amazon can to and I was like oh maybe Amazon can ship it before we do this episode wasn't ship it before we do this episode wasn't ship it before we do this episode wasn't going to arrive in time and I I've I've going to arrive in time and I I've I've going to arrive in time and I I've I've described these so far as uh you know described these so far as uh you know described these so far as uh you know mental toughness physical toughness mental toughness physical toughness mental toughness physical toughness maybe a better word is discipline okay maybe a better word is discipline okay maybe a better word is discipline okay mental discipline physical discipline mental discipline physical discipline mental discipline physical discipline this final One Financial discipline this this final One Financial discipline this this final One Financial discipline this is the psychology of money by Morgan is the psychology of money by Morgan is the psychology of money by Morgan howel I read good amount of financial howel I read good amount of financial howel I read good amount of financial books most of them are very practical books most of them are very practical books most of them are very practical and what I liked about this one was it and what I liked about this one was it and what I liked about this one was it was all about how we think about money was all about how we think about money was all about how we think about money how we feel about money and I am the CEO how we feel about money and I am the CEO how we feel about money and I am the CEO of this company but I'm also the CFO of this company but I'm also the CFO of this company but I'm also the CFO because I like it that means I oversee because I like it that means I oversee because I like it that means I oversee millions of dollars of budget I have tax millions of dollars of budget I have tax millions of dollars of budget I have tax liabilities in multiple countries I have liabilities in multiple countries I have liabilities in multiple countries I have dozens of employees on payroll that have dozens of employees on payroll that have dozens of employees on payroll that have to be compensated I have my own to be compensated I have my own to be compensated I have my own Financial interests and goals and then Financial interests and goals and then Financial interests and goals and then I'm also like I own the company 100% so

I'm also like I own the company 100% so I'm also like I own the company 100% so I have my personal finance but I also I have my personal finance but I also I have my personal finance but I also have to oversee the entire company's have to oversee the entire company's have to oversee the entire company's finances and it's it's multiple finances and it's it's multiple finances and it's it's multiple companies it's a companies it's a companies it's a lot and the more the company grows the lot and the more the company grows the lot and the more the company grows the more employees that join the more you more employees that join the more you more employees that join the more you feel the burden of like the people in feel the burden of like the people in feel the burden of like the people in your care and you just you just feel your care and you just you just feel your care and you just you just feel everything more and more and I was everything more and more and I was everything more and more and I was realizing I need to ascend to another realizing I need to ascend to another realizing I need to ascend to another level of financial discipline of level of financial discipline of level of financial discipline of financial Acuity and just sharpness and financial Acuity and just sharpness and financial Acuity and just sharpness and understanding like what is driving these understanding like what is driving these understanding like what is driving these emotions and feelings so that I don't emotions and feelings so that I don't emotions and feelings so that I don't let them make the decisions because let them make the decisions because let them make the decisions because that's what almost all of us do with that's what almost all of us do with that's what almost all of us do with money you know we all like to believe money you know we all like to believe money you know we all like to believe that our financial decisions are uh that our financial decisions are uh that our financial decisions are uh empirically motivated they're practical empirically motivated they're practical empirically motivated they're practical they are budgeted and most of the time they are budgeted and most of the time they are budgeted and most of the time they're they're emotional we can tell a they're they're emotional we can tell a they're they're emotional we can tell a narrative that we will believe ourselves narrative that we will believe ourselves narrative that we will believe ourselves so I'll go through these quickly the so I'll go through these quickly the so I'll go through these quickly the kind of five Concepts that I took away kind of five Concepts that I took away kind of five Concepts that I took away from this book the first one is uh kind from this book the first one is uh kind from this book the first one is uh kind of the malleability of a generation's of the malleability of a generation's of the malleability of a generation's view on economics based on just when view on economics based on just when view on economics based on just when they happen to be born so the author's they happen to be born so the author's they happen to be born so the author's example is hey if you were born in the example is hey if you were born in the example is hey if you were born in the 70s the stock market increased almost 10 70s the stock market increased almost 10 70s the stock market increased almost 10 times in your teens and 20s if you were times in your teens and 20s if you were times in your teens and 20s if you were born in the 50s so let's say that same born in the 50s so let's say that same born in the 50s so let's say that same generation's parents the stock market generation's parents the stock market generation's parents the stock market was flat for your teens and 20s two was flat for your teens and 20s two was flat for your teens and 20s two groups of people separated by birth year groups of people separated by birth year groups of people separated by birth year developing very different views of how developing very different views of how developing very different views of how financial markets work during as we financial markets work during as we financial markets work during as we talked about for you you know the most talked about for you you know the most talked about for you you know the most impressionable impressionable impressionable years and how your enti worldw on money years and how your enti worldw on money years and how your enti worldw on money could be dramatically different than could be dramatically different than could be dramatically different than your parents just because of what the your parents just because of what the your parents just because of what the Ecom markets did not over a century but

Ecom markets did not over a century but Ecom markets did not over a century but over a 5 to 10 year period and over a 5 to 10 year period and over a 5 to 10 year period and understanding that we think of things in understanding that we think of things in understanding that we think of things in our time like hey my entire adult life our time like hey my entire adult life our time like hey my entire adult life 10 years it's been this way it must be 10 years it's been this way it must be 10 years it's been this way it must be this way always you know we're going this way always you know we're going this way always you know we're going through a period That's inflationary through a period That's inflationary through a period That's inflationary we're going through a period of high we're going through a period of high we're going through a period of high interest I remember when I was a kid my interest I remember when I was a kid my interest I remember when I was a kid my my my dad was like yeah my first our my my dad was like yeah my first our my my dad was like yeah my first our first home you weren't even alive son we first home you weren't even alive son we first home you weren't even alive son we had like a 12% interest rate and I was had like a 12% interest rate and I was had like a 12% interest rate and I was like what does that even mean like my like what does that even mean like my like what does that even mean like my entire I'm 32 years old there's never entire I'm 32 years old there's never entire I'm 32 years old there's never been high interest there's never been been high interest there's never been been high interest there's never been high inflation this is brand new never high inflation this is brand new never high inflation this is brand new never really experienced economic markets like really experienced economic markets like really experienced economic markets like that concept number two the more extreme that concept number two the more extreme that concept number two the more extreme the outcome the less likely you can the outcome the less likely you can the outcome the less likely you can apply its lessons to your own life apply its lessons to your own life apply its lessons to your own life because the more likely the outcome was because the more likely the outcome was because the more likely the outcome was influenced by extreme ends of luck or influenced by extreme ends of luck or influenced by extreme ends of luck or risk this was Illuminating because when risk this was Illuminating because when risk this was Illuminating because when you think about like oh I'm reading the you think about like oh I'm reading the you think about like oh I'm reading the story of Steve Jobs it's always these story of Steve Jobs it's always these story of Steve Jobs it's always these extreme examples that get the most extreme examples that get the most extreme examples that get the most highlight in pop culture and what this highlight in pop culture and what this highlight in pop culture and what this book is saying is hey the more extreme book is saying is hey the more extreme book is saying is hey the more extreme it is the more likely it's going to be it is the more likely it's going to be it is the more likely it's going to be put into a publication the more likely put into a publication the more likely put into a publication the more likely the story is going to be front and the story is going to be front and the story is going to be front and center in culture but actually the less center in culture but actually the less center in culture but actually the less likely it's applicable to you whatsoever likely it's applicable to you whatsoever likely it's applicable to you whatsoever it's kind of the more Ordinary People it's kind of the more Ordinary People it's kind of the more Ordinary People the more ordinary stories that are going the more ordinary stories that are going the more ordinary stories that are going to be most applicable because they have to be most applicable because they have to be most applicable because they have the most control over those things the the most control over those things the the most control over those things the more extreme the outcome the more likely more extreme the outcome the more likely more extreme the outcome the more likely it was just a product of extreme luck or it was just a product of extreme luck or it was just a product of extreme luck or extreme risk which could have gone in extreme risk which could have gone in extreme risk which could have gone in either either either direction concept number three the direction concept number three the direction concept number three the hardest Financial skill is getting the hardest Financial skill is getting the hardest Financial skill is getting the goal posts to St stop moving oh this one goal posts to St stop moving oh this one goal posts to St stop moving oh this one still is like it convicts me every time still is like it convicts me every time still is like it convicts me every time I say it you achieve something you get I say it you achieve something you get I say it you achieve something you get to the top of the mountain and you go to the top of the mountain and you go to the top of the mountain and you go great what's next and what you just

great what's next and what you just great what's next and what you just achieved a year ago 10 years ago 25 achieved a year ago 10 years ago 25 achieved a year ago 10 years ago 25 years ago whatever would have been years ago whatever would have been years ago whatever would have been considered like that's the destination considered like that's the destination considered like that's the destination but it's not the destination because at but it's not the destination because at but it's not the destination because at least for my personality it's like okay least for my personality it's like okay least for my personality it's like okay what's next and and realizing that what's next and and realizing that what's next and and realizing that there's it doesn't matter how little there's it doesn't matter how little there's it doesn't matter how little money you have how much money you have money you have how much money you have money you have how much money you have there's always someone that has more there's always someone that has more there's always someone that has more there's always someone that has less and there's always someone that has less and there's always someone that has less and so unless you're defining things so unless you're defining things so unless you're defining things empirically yourself and holding true to empirically yourself and holding true to empirically yourself and holding true to that it's always going to be moving that it's always going to be moving that it's always going to be moving goalpost just a great quote here by goalpost just a great quote here by goalpost just a great quote here by Steve Jobs it was in the book success is Steve Jobs it was in the book success is Steve Jobs it was in the book success is a lousy teacher it seduces smart people a lousy teacher it seduces smart people a lousy teacher it seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose uh this into thinking they can't lose uh this into thinking they can't lose uh this business was quite successful in my business was quite successful in my business was quite successful in my early 20s and when things only go right early 20s and when things only go right early 20s and when things only go right in your formative in your formative in your formative years you can develop a narrative years you can develop a narrative years you can develop a narrative because it's the only thing that you because it's the only thing that you because it's the only thing that you know and and I even remember in that know and and I even remember in that know and and I even remember in that time being like this okay I I feel like time being like this okay I I feel like time being like this okay I I feel like I need to be a little bit hesitant it's I need to be a little bit hesitant it's I need to be a little bit hesitant it's like okay try something this it worked like okay try something this it worked like okay try something this it worked again okay fascinating concept number again okay fascinating concept number again okay fascinating concept number four you can't know what you'll want in four you can't know what you'll want in four you can't know what you'll want in the future just realizing my financial the future just realizing my financial the future just realizing my financial goals in my 30s different than my 20s goals in my 30s different than my 20s goals in my 30s different than my 20s and right now I'm like wow I know what I and right now I'm like wow I know what I and right now I'm like wow I know what I want but if I know what I want now and want but if I know what I want now and want but if I know what I want now and it's different than what I wanted in my it's different than what I wanted in my it's different than what I wanted in my 20s probably what I'm going to want in 20s probably what I'm going to want in 20s probably what I'm going to want in my 40s is going to be different than my 40s is going to be different than my 40s is going to be different than what I want now in my 30s okay so then what I want now in my 30s okay so then what I want now in my 30s okay so then that means that a certain amount of that means that a certain amount of that means that a certain amount of optionality a certain amount of margin optionality a certain amount of margin optionality a certain amount of margin or just a certain amount of like hey be or just a certain amount of like hey be or just a certain amount of like hey be kind to your future self do right by kind to your future self do right by kind to your future self do right by them now with your financial choices them now with your financial choices them now with your financial choices because otherwise they're going to look because otherwise they're going to look because otherwise they're going to look back and be like why'd you do that why'd back and be like why'd you do that why'd back and be like why'd you do that why'd you put us in a tough spot here you had you put us in a tough spot here you had you put us in a tough spot here you had every opportunity to put us in a good every opportunity to put us in a good every opportunity to put us in a good spot and then concept number five the

spot and then concept number five the spot and then concept number five the asymmetry of losses and gains this is asymmetry of losses and gains this is asymmetry of losses and gains this is the simple uh part of human nature that the simple uh part of human nature that the simple uh part of human nature that we all understand which is you lose $100 we all understand which is you lose $100 we all understand which is you lose $100 feels a lot worse than when you get $100 feels a lot worse than when you get $100 feels a lot worse than when you get $100 and that equally in the same direction and that equally in the same direction and that equally in the same direction there's an asymmetrical feeling to that there's an asymmetrical feeling to that there's an asymmetrical feeling to that which means that we're waiting it which means that we're waiting it which means that we're waiting it differently despite it being EX exact on differently despite it being EX exact on differently despite it being EX exact on the scales right that's good over to you the scales right that's good over to you the scales right that's good over to you last book it's not here it was an last book it's not here it was an last book it's not here it was an audible book you listen to it no um audible book you listen to it no um audible book you listen to it no um there's this Monkish way of living there's this Monkish way of living there's this Monkish way of living called oh my God I I'm going to do the called oh my God I I'm going to do the called oh my God I I'm going to do the most annoying thing right now you can most annoying thing right now you can most annoying thing right now you can turn out turn out turn out the there is a Monkish way of living the there is a Monkish way of living the there is a Monkish way of living called Liber Mundy which is Latin of called Liber Mundy which is Latin of called Liber Mundy which is Latin of course you're familiar with very course you're familiar with very course you're familiar with very familiar and Liber Mundy it's Latin familiar and Liber Mundy it's Latin familiar and Liber Mundy it's Latin which means the world is a which means the world is a which means the world is a book and it's this slow and steady way book and it's this slow and steady way book and it's this slow and steady way of living that you know it's like moving of living that you know it's like moving of living that you know it's like moving through the world and through the through the world and through the through the world and through the created Cosmos with like Eyes Wide Open created Cosmos with like Eyes Wide Open created Cosmos with like Eyes Wide Open ears wide open heart wide open um you ears wide open heart wide open um you ears wide open heart wide open um you know to see the story that's being know to see the story that's being know to see the story that's being revealed through through creation um as revealed through through creation um as revealed through through creation um as if the world was a book to read and so if the world was a book to read and so if the world was a book to read and so that's my third book it's it's this it's that's my third book it's it's this it's that's my third book it's it's this it's it's the world this Liber Mundy way of it's the world this Liber Mundy way of it's the world this Liber Mundy way of living is something i' I've really been living is something i' I've really been living is something i' I've really been practicing this year um because for us practicing this year um because for us practicing this year um because for us Christians we believe that the world is Christians we believe that the world is Christians we believe that the world is the Lord's and everything in it and so the Lord's and everything in it and so the Lord's and everything in it and so in a sense it's a reflection of God in a sense it's a reflection of God in a sense it's a reflection of God himself God's goodness God's um himself God's goodness God's um himself God's goodness God's um creativity God's grace and so in in in

creativity God's grace and so in in in creativity God's grace and so in in in that sense like the world is not just a that sense like the world is not just a that sense like the world is not just a book to read but the world is the book book to read but the world is the book book to read but the world is the book to read to learn more about who God is to read to learn more about who God is to read to learn more about who God is and what God is like um and in in this and what God is like um and in in this and what God is like um and in in this age of leadership books and courses and age of leadership books and courses and age of leadership books and courses and conferences and mentorship programs um conferences and mentorship programs um conferences and mentorship programs um it's a popular idea and tempting it's a popular idea and tempting it's a popular idea and tempting ideology uh to lead your church like a ideology uh to lead your church like a ideology uh to lead your church like a CEO and to run your church like a CEO and to run your church like a CEO and to run your church like a business it just it is business it just it is business it just it is um a lot of those ideas those leadership um a lot of those ideas those leadership um a lot of those ideas those leadership ideas that are that are synonymous with ideas that are that are synonymous with ideas that are that are synonymous with that are are built on the sensibility of that are are built on the sensibility of that are are built on the sensibility of of corporate America and how to build of corporate America and how to build of corporate America and how to build bigger and better businesses but what bigger and better businesses but what bigger and better businesses but what I'm learning is like and this is not a I'm learning is like and this is not a I'm learning is like and this is not a new idea but the kingdom of God is is new idea but the kingdom of God is is new idea but the kingdom of God is is not like like an Empire it's like a seed not like like an Empire it's like a seed not like like an Empire it's like a seed it's like leav in a loaf of bread you it's like leav in a loaf of bread you it's like leav in a loaf of bread you know we talked about it earlier it's know we talked about it earlier it's know we talked about it earlier it's like a sun it's like a mustard Bush or a like a sun it's like a mustard Bush or a like a sun it's like a mustard Bush or a herd of sheep as as pastors and herd of sheep as as pastors and herd of sheep as as pastors and Christian leaders we're like like Christian leaders we're like like Christian leaders we're like like Shepherds and um the kingdom of God it's Shepherds and um the kingdom of God it's Shepherds and um the kingdom of God it's like to me it's being found in the most like to me it's being found in the most like to me it's being found in the most unimpressive cracks and crevices of the unimpressive cracks and crevices of the unimpressive cracks and crevices of the created world of of the cosmos um so I'm created world of of the cosmos um so I'm created world of of the cosmos um so I'm trying to pay attention to the world I'm trying to pay attention to the world I'm trying to pay attention to the world I'm trying to read it like a book this Libra trying to read it like a book this Libra trying to read it like a book this Libra Munday idea um I'm I'm paying more Munday idea um I'm I'm paying more Munday idea um I'm I'm paying more attention to to honey bees and to attention to to honey bees and to attention to to honey bees and to flowers and to leaves that are changing flowers and to leaves that are changing flowers and to leaves that are changing color um you know I'm looking for Glory color um you know I'm looking for Glory color um you know I'm looking for Glory and dirt I'm I'm finding gratitude in

and dirt I'm I'm finding gratitude in and dirt I'm I'm finding gratitude in the sky um I bought a bike you know like the sky um I bought a bike you know like the sky um I bought a bike you know like I'm trying to move more on my feet or on I'm trying to move more on my feet or on I'm trying to move more on my feet or on rubber than sitting on leather in my car rubber than sitting on leather in my car rubber than sitting on leather in my car um I'm listening to less podcasts um I'm listening to less podcasts um I'm listening to less podcasts listening to less sermons I'm trying to listening to less sermons I'm trying to listening to less sermons I'm trying to listen more to like friends and family listen more to like friends and family listen more to like friends and family and foes um I'm trying to read the world and foes um I'm trying to read the world and foes um I'm trying to read the world like a book and that um it helps me stay like a book and that um it helps me stay like a book and that um it helps me stay rooted and planted and connected in this rooted and planted and connected in this rooted and planted and connected in this place like like where we actually live place like like where we actually live place like like where we actually live in Niagara um to see this place for what in Niagara um to see this place for what in Niagara um to see this place for what it is but also to see the people that I it is but also to see the people that I it is but also to see the people that I share this sliver of land with to see share this sliver of land with to see share this sliver of land with to see them better um and that was really them better um and that was really them better um and that was really influencing my I think the way I relate influencing my I think the way I relate influencing my I think the way I relate to my family my friends um but the way I to my family my friends um but the way I to my family my friends um but the way I relate to the people in our faith relate to the people in our faith relate to the people in our faith community the way I lead people as a community the way I lead people as a community the way I lead people as a pastor as a Christian leader if you will pastor as a Christian leader if you will pastor as a Christian leader if you will um so that was um so that was um so that was annoying that was like that was I had annoying that was like that was I had annoying that was like that was I had the opportunity to to do the most on the opportunity to to do the most on the opportunity to to do the most on brand thing possible and so I did it um brand thing possible and so I did it um brand thing possible and so I did it um but truthfully uh I'm I'm I'm trying to but truthfully uh I'm I'm I'm trying to but truthfully uh I'm I'm I'm trying to move through the world that way paying move through the world that way paying move through the world that way paying attention and reading the world as if it attention and reading the world as if it attention and reading the world as if it was a book and I think think no I know was a book and I think think no I know was a book and I think think no I know it's making me a better a better person it's making me a better a better person it's making me a better a better person a better Christ follower and a better a better Christ follower and a better a better Christ follower and a better Pastor I was being glib but there's some Pastor I was being glib but there's some Pastor I was being glib but there's some there's some profound element to that there's some profound element to that there's some profound element to that hope they h on very fascinating we are hope they h on very fascinating we are hope they h on very fascinating we are best friends we do life together we see best friends we do life together we see best friends we do life together we see each other a lot similar background

each other a lot similar background each other a lot similar background similar upbringing is like how different similar upbringing is like how different similar upbringing is like how different could our could our could our reading interesting we'd love to hear reading interesting we'd love to hear reading interesting we'd love to hear your book yes send it into the text line your book yes send it into the text line your book yes send it into the text line 1800 485 3139 or you can post it below 1800 485 3139 or you can post it below 1800 485 3139 or you can post it below this video on the comments if watching this video on the comments if watching this video on the comments if watching on YouTube and thanks as always for your on YouTube and thanks as always for your on YouTube and thanks as always for your time attention and Trust we'll talk soon time attention and Trust we'll talk soon time attention and Trust we'll talk soon you're planning on like picking it up to you're planning on like picking it up to you're planning on like picking it up to like show the camera or something yeah like show the camera or something yeah like show the camera or something yeah yeah look we only have two each where's yeah look we only have two each where's yeah look we only have two each where's your third oh God find your third oh God find your third oh God find out we should leave them up here we out we should leave them up here we out we should leave them up here we should yeah okay I'm going to I'm going should yeah okay I'm going to I'm going should yeah okay I'm going to I'm going to put to put to put my no it's there okay