60% Of New Visitors Come From Social Media with Mosaic Church

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] this was unexpected from this this was unexpected from this this was unexpected from this conversation I've been naked on an conversation I've been naked on an conversation I've been naked on an airplane that will get you thrown in airplane that will get you thrown in airplane that will get you thrown in jail and probably deported from the jail and probably deported from the jail and probably deported from the country why are we gathering in person country why are we gathering in person country why are we gathering in person at all what in person does better than at all what in person does better than at all what in person does better than online I feel like Community well online I feel like Community well online I feel like Community well well hey there and welcome to the pro well hey there and welcome to the pro well hey there and welcome to the pro Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you in your church navigate the biggest in your church navigate the biggest in your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm Brady Shearer your host I'm joined as Brady Shearer your host I'm joined as Brady Shearer your host I'm joined as always by my co-host we call him Bishop always by my co-host we call him Bishop always by my co-host we call him Bishop beige it's Alexander Mills we've got no beige it's Alexander Mills we've got no beige it's Alexander Mills we've got no great questions from the people of pro great questions from the people of pro great questions from the people of pro Church Nation not because you didn't Church Nation not because you didn't Church Nation not because you didn't send in great questions folks but send in great questions folks but send in great questions folks but because we have an interview today with because we have an interview today with because we have an interview today with Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai in Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai in Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai in which you and I do the asking of great which you and I do the asking of great which you and I do the asking of great questions that's right well I would not questions that's right well I would not questions that's right well I would not assume our questions are great that's assume our questions are great that's assume our questions are great that's quite presumptive presumptuous of you quite presumptive presumptuous of you quite presumptive presumptuous of you but hey uh why did we do this interview but hey uh why did we do this interview but hey uh why did we do this interview we used to do interviews a lot on the we used to do interviews a lot on the we used to do interviews a lot on the pro Church tools show I haven't done pro Church tools show I haven't done pro Church tools show I haven't done them so much recently but I came across them so much recently but I came across them so much recently but I came across uh Mosaic they had commented on a on a uh Mosaic they had commented on a on a uh Mosaic they had commented on a on a post we had done a few weeks ago talking post we had done a few weeks ago talking post we had done a few weeks ago talking about growth on social media Discovery about growth on social media Discovery about growth on social media Discovery algorithms and how one post can like algorithms and how one post can like algorithms and how one post can like really blow up and so they commented really blow up and so they commented really blow up and so they commented under one of those posts and said it under one of those posts and said it under one of those posts and said it happened for us and they talk about how happened for us and they talk about how happened for us and they talk about how within 30 days they gained roughly 10 within 30 days they gained roughly 10 within 30 days they gained roughly 10 000 new followers in one one year they 000 new followers in one one year they 000 new followers in one one year they 10xed their followers overall and this 10xed their followers overall and this 10xed their followers overall and this wasn't just these amazing glamorous wasn't just these amazing glamorous wasn't just these amazing glamorous metrics online but that 60 percent of metrics online but that 60 percent of metrics online but that 60 percent of new visitors to this church in uh new visitors to this church in uh new visitors to this church in uh non-Christian Nation were coming from

non-Christian Nation were coming from non-Christian Nation were coming from social media and so we were like okay social media and so we were like okay social media and so we were like okay this is a story that we know people are this is a story that we know people are this is a story that we know people are going to benefit from if they're able to going to benefit from if they're able to going to benefit from if they're able to hear it so we connected with Pastor hear it so we connected with Pastor hear it so we connected with Pastor Jeremy he was able to stay up late in Jeremy he was able to stay up late in Jeremy he was able to stay up late in the different time zone that he was in the different time zone that he was in the different time zone that he was in and we had a great conversation about and we had a great conversation about and we had a great conversation about all things uh Church related to how all things uh Church related to how all things uh Church related to how they're doing Church uniquely how they're doing Church uniquely how they're doing Church uniquely how they're making a difference on social they're making a difference on social they're making a difference on social how that's translating to in person and how that's translating to in person and how that's translating to in person and what's great is that this is a smaller what's great is that this is a smaller what's great is that this is a smaller Church yeah right like not a highly Church yeah right like not a highly Church yeah right like not a highly visible or highly affluent Church a visible or highly affluent Church a visible or highly affluent Church a typical everyday Church like everyone typical everyday Church like everyone typical everyday Church like everyone that we're serving in and so we're going that we're serving in and so we're going that we're serving in and so we're going to jump now to that conversation with to jump now to that conversation with to jump now to that conversation with Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai all Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai all Pastor Jeremy Cole of Mosaic Dubai all right we are joined today by Jeremy Cole right we are joined today by Jeremy Cole right we are joined today by Jeremy Cole lead pastor of Mosaic Dubai Jeremy great lead pastor of Mosaic Dubai Jeremy great lead pastor of Mosaic Dubai Jeremy great to have you to have you to have you well thank you Brady it's a pleasure to well thank you Brady it's a pleasure to well thank you Brady it's a pleasure to be here I've been a fan for many years be here I've been a fan for many years be here I've been a fan for many years of what you guys are doing so yeah this of what you guys are doing so yeah this of what you guys are doing so yeah this is just really it's a dream come true to is just really it's a dream come true to is just really it's a dream come true to be here be here be here well in all actuality it's a dream to well in all actuality it's a dream to well in all actuality it's a dream to have you Jeremy because everything that have you Jeremy because everything that have you Jeremy because everything that your church has accomplished on social your church has accomplished on social your church has accomplished on social and as we'll discuss in person these and as we'll discuss in person these and as we'll discuss in person these last few years is truly uh remarkable last few years is truly uh remarkable last few years is truly uh remarkable not just because of the results but not just because of the results but not just because of the results but because of the sustained effort and because of the sustained effort and because of the sustained effort and perseverance and so you obviously as in perseverance and so you obviously as in perseverance and so you obviously as in the name Mosaic Dubai uh not an American the name Mosaic Dubai uh not an American the name Mosaic Dubai uh not an American church located in the United Arab church located in the United Arab church located in the United Arab Emirates can you tell us a little bit Emirates can you tell us a little bit Emirates can you tell us a little bit about your own history as a pastor and about your own history as a pastor and about your own history as a pastor and uh the kind of like how you arrived in uh the kind of like how you arrived in uh the kind of like how you arrived in the UAE forgive me if you were born the UAE forgive me if you were born the UAE forgive me if you were born there uh it's not coming off that way to there uh it's not coming off that way to there uh it's not coming off that way to me me me no I was not born in Dubai I was born in

no I was not born in Dubai I was born in no I was not born in Dubai I was born in Ada Oklahoma like this little bitty Ada Oklahoma like this little bitty Ada Oklahoma like this little bitty small town in Oklahoma small town in Oklahoma small town in Oklahoma um but kind of a background on me uh um but kind of a background on me uh um but kind of a background on me uh I've been in the aviation industry for I've been in the aviation industry for I've been in the aviation industry for 20 years uh so I was an airline pilot 20 years uh so I was an airline pilot 20 years uh so I was an airline pilot for 20 years and worked about 10 years for 20 years and worked about 10 years for 20 years and worked about 10 years in the United States and then the last in the United States and then the last in the United States and then the last 10 was with Emirates Airlines and so I 10 was with Emirates Airlines and so I 10 was with Emirates Airlines and so I was flying the Boeing triple seven was flying the Boeing triple seven was flying the Boeing triple seven around the world they're actually paying around the world they're actually paying around the world they're actually paying me to do it uh to see the world just an me to do it uh to see the world just an me to do it uh to see the world just an amazing job and so that's what initially amazing job and so that's what initially amazing job and so that's what initially brought me here to the UAE about 10 brought me here to the UAE about 10 brought me here to the UAE about 10 years ago actually about 15 years ago years ago actually about 15 years ago years ago actually about 15 years ago and it's just been an amazing time Dubai and it's just been an amazing time Dubai and it's just been an amazing time Dubai is really it's one of the best cities in is really it's one of the best cities in is really it's one of the best cities in the world I believe it's it's way safer the world I believe it's it's way safer the world I believe it's it's way safer than most cities in the world definitely than most cities in the world definitely than most cities in the world definitely safer than the United States like that's safer than the United States like that's safer than the United States like that's something probably most people would not something probably most people would not something probably most people would not know I've lost my wallet twice here in know I've lost my wallet twice here in know I've lost my wallet twice here in the city and I got it back both times the city and I got it back both times the city and I got it back both times with all the money in it so it's just with all the money in it so it's just with all the money in it so it's just like uh you know it's just one of these like uh you know it's just one of these like uh you know it's just one of these places where um you get people from all places where um you get people from all places where um you get people from all over the world you know I can go to over the world you know I can go to over the world you know I can go to lunch with someone from India dinner or lunch with someone from India dinner or lunch with someone from India dinner or someone from South Africa and it just someone from South Africa and it just someone from South Africa and it just you run into people from all over the you run into people from all over the you run into people from all over the world every single day it's probably the world every single day it's probably the world every single day it's probably the most cultural city in the world so a most cultural city in the world so a most cultural city in the world so a great place to to raise a family to great place to to raise a family to great place to to raise a family to learn and just see different ways of learn and just see different ways of learn and just see different ways of doing things because the way that I've doing things because the way that I've doing things because the way that I've always done things in the United States always done things in the United States always done things in the United States people in India may be doing it a people in India may be doing it a people in India may be doing it a different way but you still accomplish different way but you still accomplish different way but you still accomplish the same thing and so I really learned the same thing and so I really learned the same thing and so I really learned to to be a adjustable in what I do

to to be a adjustable in what I do to to be a adjustable in what I do because there are multiple ways of doing because there are multiple ways of doing because there are multiple ways of doing the same thing before we dive into the actual you know before we dive into the actual you know Church content that folks are curious to Church content that folks are curious to Church content that folks are curious to hear one I am headed to Dubai for the hear one I am headed to Dubai for the hear one I am headed to Dubai for the first time in February I'm very excited first time in February I'm very excited first time in February I'm very excited headed with my wife and we're flying headed with my wife and we're flying headed with my wife and we're flying Emirates for the first time uh not quite Emirates for the first time uh not quite Emirates for the first time uh not quite first class but we were able to use some first class but we were able to use some first class but we were able to use some miles to get the business class so first miles to get the business class so first miles to get the business class so first time on you know the double decker time on you know the double decker time on you know the double decker Airline uh you know any pro tips for you Airline uh you know any pro tips for you Airline uh you know any pro tips for you know flying Emirates uh for the first know flying Emirates uh for the first know flying Emirates uh for the first time uh enjoy it I mean business class time uh enjoy it I mean business class time uh enjoy it I mean business class is amazing the thing about the is amazing the thing about the is amazing the thing about the difference between economy and business difference between economy and business difference between economy and business class is that you get to lay down and so class is that you get to lay down and so class is that you get to lay down and so you're going to be able to sleep during you're going to be able to sleep during you're going to be able to sleep during the flight amen right you're gonna the flight amen right you're gonna the flight amen right you're gonna you're gonna be able to sleep you're gonna be able to sleep you're gonna be able to sleep sleep enough to where you can show up sleep enough to where you can show up sleep enough to where you can show up and have a little bit of energy when you and have a little bit of energy when you and have a little bit of energy when you arrive but enjoy the the entertainment arrive but enjoy the the entertainment arrive but enjoy the the entertainment on board is amazing on board is amazing on board is amazing um you know hundreds of movies um you know hundreds of movies um you know hundreds of movies the food is good it's going to be the food is good it's going to be the food is good it's going to be probably I would I would say it's going probably I would I would say it's going probably I would I would say it's going to be the nicest flight you've ever been to be the nicest flight you've ever been to be the nicest flight you've ever been on today okay setting my expectations on today okay setting my expectations on today okay setting my expectations High okay when I was when I was a High okay when I was when I was a High okay when I was when I was a teenager I did a ywam youth with a teenager I did a ywam youth with a teenager I did a ywam youth with a mission in Uganda and so we all got mission in Uganda and so we all got mission in Uganda and so we all got there people from all different places there people from all different places there people from all different places all over the world some of us flew with all over the world some of us flew with all over the world some of us flew with Brussels some of us flew with KLM and Brussels some of us flew with KLM and Brussels some of us flew with KLM and there was one girl she was coming from there was one girl she was coming from there was one girl she was coming from Eugene Oregon and she flew Emirates Eugene Oregon and she flew Emirates Eugene Oregon and she flew Emirates we're all talking about the flight we're all talking about the flight we're all talking about the flight because it's it's a distance to travel because it's it's a distance to travel because it's it's a distance to travel and she came off the plane she got these and she came off the plane she got these and she came off the plane she got these high socks that she got yeah the

high socks that she got yeah the high socks that she got yeah the compressions yeah she got the compressions yeah she got the compressions yeah she got the compression socks she was telling us compression socks she was telling us compression socks she was telling us about the champagne about the champagne about the champagne champagne I said what kind of plane were champagne I said what kind of plane were champagne I said what kind of plane were you on of it it sounded like her you on of it it sounded like her you on of it it sounded like her experience on Emirates Airlines was a experience on Emirates Airlines was a experience on Emirates Airlines was a little bit of a different class and she little bit of a different class and she little bit of a different class and she was she was in regular economy but a was she was in regular economy but a was she was in regular economy but a little bit of a different class than the little bit of a different class than the little bit of a different class than the rest of us I hear the economy is also rest of us I hear the economy is also rest of us I hear the economy is also outstanding yeah no it really is and outstanding yeah no it really is and outstanding yeah no it really is and here's here's an interesting thing here's here's an interesting thing here's here's an interesting thing because you're going on the double because you're going on the double because you're going on the double decker airplane as a captain with decker airplane as a captain with decker airplane as a captain with Emirates I used to be able to fly first Emirates I used to be able to fly first Emirates I used to be able to fly first class occasionally and uh on the 380s class occasionally and uh on the 380s class occasionally and uh on the 380s they have In First Class showers they have In First Class showers they have In First Class showers so one of the things I kind of say to so one of the things I kind of say to so one of the things I kind of say to shock people occasionally is that I've shock people occasionally is that I've shock people occasionally is that I've been naked on an airplane that's our uh In First Class our uh In First Class um yeah amazing that's aspirational um yeah amazing that's aspirational um yeah amazing that's aspirational right there you know not quite at that right there you know not quite at that right there you know not quite at that status yet the miles I use I go in there status yet the miles I use I go in there status yet the miles I use I go in there I'm like all right my miles first class I'm like all right my miles first class I'm like all right my miles first class they were just laughing at me keep your they were just laughing at me keep your they were just laughing at me keep your clothes on in business from my clothes on in business from my clothes on in business from my understanding you have to understanding you have to understanding you have to there's like one shower and you get like there's like one shower and you get like there's like one shower and you get like a 20 to 40 minute period that you have a 20 to 40 minute period that you have a 20 to 40 minute period that you have to pre-book to use it yeah no that is to pre-book to use it yeah no that is to pre-book to use it yeah no that is true yeah it's a 20 minute period I true yeah it's a 20 minute period I true yeah it's a 20 minute period I believe and the shower only lasts for believe and the shower only lasts for believe and the shower only lasts for maybe like five minutes or four minutes maybe like five minutes or four minutes maybe like five minutes or four minutes there's like a there's like a green there's like a there's like a green there's like a there's like a green light a yellow light and a red light and light a yellow light and a red light and light a yellow light and a red light and you're like you want to have all the you're like you want to have all the you're like you want to have all the soap off by the time the red light shows soap off by the time the red light shows soap off by the time the red light shows up so up so up so yeah okay and then second question yeah okay and then second question yeah okay and then second question so coming from Aviation was there a a so coming from Aviation was there a a so coming from Aviation was there a a watch of choice for you working in watch of choice for you working in watch of choice for you working in aviation because I've been hearing great aviation because I've been hearing great aviation because I've been hearing great things about the Breitling navitimer and things about the Breitling navitimer and things about the Breitling navitimer and how important that is to the aviation

how important that is to the aviation how important that is to the aviation industry uh any thoughts on that industry uh any thoughts on that industry uh any thoughts on that it's true no that that is that is true it's true no that that is that is true it's true no that that is that is true Breitling is the choice for aviators Breitling is the choice for aviators Breitling is the choice for aviators um I think that came from the Blue um I think that came from the Blue um I think that came from the Blue Angels the Blue Angels were sponsored by Angels the Blue Angels were sponsored by Angels the Blue Angels were sponsored by Breitling or something or I don't know Breitling or something or I don't know Breitling or something or I don't know some famous aviators in the past were some famous aviators in the past were some famous aviators in the past were Breitling and so that is what all the Breitling and so that is what all the Breitling and so that is what all the pilots were pilots were pilots were um but I I like um this certain pair of um but I I like um this certain pair of um but I I like um this certain pair of shoes from shoes from shoes from um from Australia called RM Williams um from Australia called RM Williams um from Australia called RM Williams they make these boots and I've had this they make these boots and I've had this they make these boots and I've had this pair of boots for like 13 years and pair of boots for like 13 years and pair of boots for like 13 years and they're still the most comfortable pair they're still the most comfortable pair they're still the most comfortable pair of shoes that I own so they're expensive of shoes that I own so they're expensive of shoes that I own so they're expensive like 500 or something crazy but like 500 or something crazy but like 500 or something crazy but um it's actually one of those things um it's actually one of those things um it's actually one of those things that I don't regret doing years ago that I don't regret doing years ago that I don't regret doing years ago and you said that's an Aussie brand yeah and you said that's an Aussie brand yeah and you said that's an Aussie brand yeah that's an Aussie brand yeah r.m Williams that's an Aussie brand yeah r.m Williams that's an Aussie brand yeah r.m Williams great great outstanding and and if great great outstanding and and if great great outstanding and and if someone was headed to Dubai for the someone was headed to Dubai for the someone was headed to Dubai for the first time or if someone was unfamiliar first time or if someone was unfamiliar first time or if someone was unfamiliar with the city you've talked a little bit with the city you've talked a little bit with the city you've talked a little bit about kind of the landscape and respect about kind of the landscape and respect about kind of the landscape and respect to church can you just tell us a little to church can you just tell us a little to church can you just tell us a little bit about the the city itself uh truly bit about the the city itself uh truly bit about the the city itself uh truly from what I can see not being there yet from what I can see not being there yet from what I can see not being there yet unlike any other city in the world it unlike any other city in the world it unlike any other city in the world it seems seems seems no that that is true it is unlike any no that that is true it is unlike any no that that is true it is unlike any other city other city other city um they're about four months out of the um they're about four months out of the um they're about four months out of the year year year um that it is hot hot hot hot so um that it is hot hot hot hot so um that it is hot hot hot hot so unfortunately Brady it looks like you're unfortunately Brady it looks like you're unfortunately Brady it looks like you're coming in one of the hot months coming in one of the hot months coming in one of the hot months um Dubai is made a little bit um Dubai is made a little bit um Dubai is made a little bit differently to where um people go hang differently to where um people go hang differently to where um people go hang out at the malls because it's out at the malls because it's out at the malls because it's air-conditioned air-conditioned air-conditioned um and the malls that we have here and um and the malls that we have here and um and the malls that we have here and Dubai are very different from the malls Dubai are very different from the malls Dubai are very different from the malls around the world it's real high-end

around the world it's real high-end around the world it's real high-end there's multiple things to do inside of there's multiple things to do inside of there's multiple things to do inside of the malls so that's a little bit the malls so that's a little bit the malls so that's a little bit differently uh more a little bit differently uh more a little bit differently uh more a little bit different about our city and the thing different about our city and the thing different about our city and the thing about it really is the most about it really is the most about it really is the most Multicultural city in the world where Multicultural city in the world where Multicultural city in the world where you can come and just be with people you can come and just be with people you can come and just be with people from all over the world that's really from all over the world that's really from all over the world that's really one of the best parts of it and I think one of the best parts of it and I think one of the best parts of it and I think if you want to talk about church is in if you want to talk about church is in if you want to talk about church is in Dubai and kind of one thing that most Dubai and kind of one thing that most Dubai and kind of one thing that most people will find surprising that they're people will find surprising that they're people will find surprising that they're they're over 150 different churches in they're over 150 different churches in they're over 150 different churches in Dubai which you would think that's just Dubai which you would think that's just Dubai which you would think that's just you know you wouldn't expect that in a you know you wouldn't expect that in a you know you wouldn't expect that in a Muslim country Muslim country Muslim country but Dubai in the country of the UAE is but Dubai in the country of the UAE is but Dubai in the country of the UAE is very tolerant they've recently built in very tolerant they've recently built in very tolerant they've recently built in the city of Abu Dhabi a place where the city of Abu Dhabi a place where the city of Abu Dhabi a place where there's a mosque a synagogue you know there's a mosque a synagogue you know there's a mosque a synagogue you know the Jewish religion and a church all the Jewish religion and a church all the Jewish religion and a church all within walking distance of each other within walking distance of each other within walking distance of each other and it's really just this this idea of and it's really just this this idea of and it's really just this this idea of Tolerance in a religion and so it's um Tolerance in a religion and so it's um Tolerance in a religion and so it's um there are definitely rules that you there are definitely rules that you there are definitely rules that you can't break you know I can't go and try can't break you know I can't go and try can't break you know I can't go and try to prosely someone that is still against to prosely someone that is still against to prosely someone that is still against the law you know I can't go up to a the law you know I can't go up to a the law you know I can't go up to a stranger and try to to win them for stranger and try to to win them for stranger and try to to win them for Jesus but I can't tell my my Muslim Jesus but I can't tell my my Muslim Jesus but I can't tell my my Muslim friends about Jesus you know I have friends about Jesus you know I have friends about Jesus you know I have multiple Muslim friends that know me as multiple Muslim friends that know me as multiple Muslim friends that know me as a pastor and then I can talk to them a pastor and then I can talk to them a pastor and then I can talk to them about Jesus and that's not that's not about Jesus and that's not that's not about Jesus and that's not that's not against the law but if I'm going up and against the law but if I'm going up and against the law but if I'm going up and trying to you know trying to convert trying to you know trying to convert trying to you know trying to convert someone that I don't know that that will someone that I don't know that that will someone that I don't know that that will get you thrown in jail and probably get you thrown in jail and probably get you thrown in jail and probably deported from the country deported from the country deported from the country wow and and also true like public wow and and also true like public wow and and also true like public displays of affection like even between

displays of affection like even between displays of affection like even between you and you know your your partner you and you know your your partner you and you know your your partner you're married that's also just not a you're married that's also just not a you're married that's also just not a thing that would be tolerated thing that would be tolerated thing that would be tolerated it's tolerated these days uh you know in it's tolerated these days uh you know in it's tolerated these days uh you know in the past I think that that was the past I think that that was the past I think that that was definitely something that you would not definitely something that you would not definitely something that you would not see these days you would still see it see these days you would still see it see these days you would still see it but here's the rule about Dubai and this but here's the rule about Dubai and this but here's the rule about Dubai and this really works in any place where you really works in any place where you really works in any place where you travel in the world is you want to be travel in the world is you want to be travel in the world is you want to be respectful of of the people that you're respectful of of the people that you're respectful of of the people that you're that you're there with and so if you see that you're there with and so if you see that you're there with and so if you see someone who's um you know an emirati or someone who's um you know an emirati or someone who's um you know an emirati or someone that is obviously from a Muslim someone that is obviously from a Muslim someone that is obviously from a Muslim religion you probably wouldn't do too religion you probably wouldn't do too religion you probably wouldn't do too much display of affection in front of much display of affection in front of much display of affection in front of them just because it would you know it them just because it would you know it them just because it would you know it would set a bad example to them and so would set a bad example to them and so would set a bad example to them and so you just need to just in life you just you just need to just in life you just you just need to just in life you just need to be wise about what you're doing need to be wise about what you're doing need to be wise about what you're doing so so so um you know I see people walking around um you know I see people walking around um you know I see people walking around the beaches I live right across from the the beaches I live right across from the the beaches I live right across from the beach people walk around the beach just beach people walk around the beach just beach people walk around the beach just like wearing hardly any clothes so that like wearing hardly any clothes so that like wearing hardly any clothes so that that is in Dubai currently so you see that is in Dubai currently so you see that is in Dubai currently so you see things that you don't expect to have in things that you don't expect to have in things that you don't expect to have in a Muslim country but there's still kind a Muslim country but there's still kind a Muslim country but there's still kind of this rule of Common Sense and of this rule of Common Sense and of this rule of Common Sense and treating others with respect that I treating others with respect that I treating others with respect that I would suggest anyone follows would suggest anyone follows would suggest anyone follows well Jeremy you've you've alluded a few well Jeremy you've you've alluded a few well Jeremy you've you've alluded a few times to the Multicultural nature of times to the Multicultural nature of times to the Multicultural nature of Dubai and I actually just learned Dubai and I actually just learned Dubai and I actually just learned recently that you know a very small recently that you know a very small recently that you know a very small minority of the the population in the minority of the the population in the minority of the the population in the United Arab Emirates are actually United Arab Emirates are actually United Arab Emirates are actually citizens and over 90 percent of the citizens and over 90 percent of the citizens and over 90 percent of the population are immigrants or population are immigrants or population are immigrants or non-citizens and so I wanted to ask you non-citizens and so I wanted to ask you non-citizens and so I wanted to ask you about pastoring and practicing

about pastoring and practicing about pastoring and practicing um Christian Community in in an um Christian Community in in an um Christian Community in in an environment like that like what are the environment like that like what are the environment like that like what are the particular challenges and or advantages particular challenges and or advantages particular challenges and or advantages that you've experienced in your that you've experienced in your that you've experienced in your experience pastoring and leading a experience pastoring and leading a experience pastoring and leading a Christian Community in an environment Christian Community in an environment Christian Community in an environment like that yeah that's a great question like that yeah that's a great question like that yeah that's a great question and it's true uh 90 of the people that and it's true uh 90 of the people that and it's true uh 90 of the people that live in the UA are UAE are not from the live in the UA are UAE are not from the live in the UA are UAE are not from the UAE UAE UAE um and my church is made up of probably um and my church is made up of probably um and my church is made up of probably you know we average it and it's probably you know we average it and it's probably you know we average it and it's probably 240 we probably have 240 we probably have 240 we probably have 50 40 to 50 different nationalities in 50 40 to 50 different nationalities in 50 40 to 50 different nationalities in my church I mean it is just you know it my church I mean it is just you know it my church I mean it is just you know it you have a little bit of everything you have a little bit of everything you have a little bit of everything um um um the majority of the people that live in the majority of the people that live in the majority of the people that live in Dubai I'd say 40 are from India and then Dubai I'd say 40 are from India and then Dubai I'd say 40 are from India and then you have a lot of people from the you have a lot of people from the you have a lot of people from the Philippines and then um then it's just a Philippines and then um then it's just a Philippines and then um then it's just a mixture of of everything else and it mixture of of everything else and it mixture of of everything else and it kind of goes back to the point what I kind of goes back to the point what I kind of goes back to the point what I made earlier of made earlier of made earlier of you know people do things differently in you know people do things differently in you know people do things differently in their home countries versus the way that their home countries versus the way that their home countries versus the way that I would do do it in my country and so I would do do it in my country and so I would do do it in my country and so one of the things how you do ministry one of the things how you do ministry one of the things how you do ministry and Dubai is you you have to ask a lot and Dubai is you you have to ask a lot and Dubai is you you have to ask a lot of questions you have to of questions you have to of questions you have to um you have to include people into the um you have to include people into the um you have to include people into the decision-making process and really just decision-making process and really just decision-making process and really just work together for the general good of of work together for the general good of of work together for the general good of of the of the people here to figure out the of the people here to figure out the of the people here to figure out what you what you want to do so I I what you what you want to do so I I what you what you want to do so I I would say I have to ask a lot more would say I have to ask a lot more would say I have to ask a lot more questions maybe than if we were all just questions maybe than if we were all just questions maybe than if we were all just one culture one culture one culture and you said weekly attendance roughly

and you said weekly attendance roughly and you said weekly attendance roughly 240 is this a church plant or was the 240 is this a church plant or was the 240 is this a church plant or was the church there before uh you became the church there before uh you became the church there before uh you became the lead Pastor yeah great question I lead Pastor yeah great question I lead Pastor yeah great question I started the church started the church started the church um about 10 years ago but I never wanted um about 10 years ago but I never wanted um about 10 years ago but I never wanted to be a pastor you know I was a pilot to be a pastor you know I was a pilot to be a pastor you know I was a pilot you know I was flying all around the you know I was flying all around the you know I was flying all around the world I was having a great time like world I was having a great time like world I was having a great time like being a pastor was never on my radar being a pastor was never on my radar being a pastor was never on my radar honestly honestly honestly um until about five years ago six years um until about five years ago six years um until about five years ago six years ago and so I started the church but I ago and so I started the church but I ago and so I started the church but I didn't want to be the pastor I helped didn't want to be the pastor I helped didn't want to be the pastor I helped finance it I got you know I was able to finance it I got you know I was able to finance it I got you know I was able to uh uh uh um I had a relationship with a large um I had a relationship with a large um I had a relationship with a large torch in the United States called North torch in the United States called North torch in the United States called North Point Community Church that's Andy Point Community Church that's Andy Point Community Church that's Andy Stanley's church and so we were able to Stanley's church and so we were able to Stanley's church and so we were able to get some of the you know get some get some of the you know get some get some of the you know get some coaching from them get some help from coaching from them get some help from coaching from them get some help from them and we are showing a lot of Andy them and we are showing a lot of Andy them and we are showing a lot of Andy Stanley videos at the time Stanley videos at the time Stanley videos at the time um in our church we're more of a video um in our church we're more of a video um in our church we're more of a video based Church we've kind of switched from based Church we've kind of switched from based Church we've kind of switched from that recently because our model has that recently because our model has that recently because our model has changed probably in about about three changed probably in about about three changed probably in about about three years ago our model changed and I'll I years ago our model changed and I'll I years ago our model changed and I'll I like to go into more of that here in like to go into more of that here in like to go into more of that here in just a minute in a little bit to explain just a minute in a little bit to explain just a minute in a little bit to explain some new things that we've been trying some new things that we've been trying some new things that we've been trying out and so we were not we're not out and so we were not we're not out and so we were not we're not necessarily a um a plant of another necessarily a um a plant of another necessarily a um a plant of another church we started something different church we started something different church we started something different because I really felt like you know when because I really felt like you know when because I really felt like you know when I arrived in Dubai 16 years ago most of I arrived in Dubai 16 years ago most of I arrived in Dubai 16 years ago most of the churches were 10 to 20 years in the the churches were 10 to 20 years in the the churches were 10 to 20 years in the past like there were no like modern like past like there were no like modern like past like there were no like modern like you know thinking you know thinking you know thinking um churches at the time and so I really um churches at the time and so I really um churches at the time and so I really felt like there was a need similar to felt like there was a need similar to felt like there was a need similar to North Point that was really trying to

North Point that was really trying to North Point that was really trying to reach the loss that was really kind of reach the loss that was really kind of reach the loss that was really kind of pushing the boundaries of thinking and pushing the boundaries of thinking and pushing the boundaries of thinking and trying to win people for Christ and so I trying to win people for Christ and so I trying to win people for Christ and so I saw that need in the city and so that's saw that need in the city and so that's saw that need in the city and so that's the reason why I started the church the reason why I started the church the reason why I started the church about 10 years ago but since then that's about 10 years ago but since then that's about 10 years ago but since then that's changed I became the pastor of Mosaic changed I became the pastor of Mosaic changed I became the pastor of Mosaic and again that was not my you know I was and again that was not my you know I was and again that was not my you know I was not planning on that it was something not planning on that it was something not planning on that it was something that over a period of time God told me that over a period of time God told me that over a period of time God told me to do and so I I obeyed I said yes I to do and so I I obeyed I said yes I to do and so I I obeyed I said yes I went and told my wife that I felt like went and told my wife that I felt like went and told my wife that I felt like God's telling me to quit this you know God's telling me to quit this you know God's telling me to quit this you know very high paying you know fancy job very high paying you know fancy job very high paying you know fancy job flying first class all over the world flying first class all over the world flying first class all over the world and she was like um I'm not sure that's and she was like um I'm not sure that's and she was like um I'm not sure that's not God what did you eat not God what did you eat not God what did you eat she's like I don't think so but she's like I don't think so but she's like I don't think so but eventually God told her as well and we eventually God told her as well and we eventually God told her as well and we started this journey because he started started this journey because he started started this journey because he started this journey becoming a pastor and um this journey becoming a pastor and um this journey becoming a pastor and um you know Mosaic couldn't pay me so I had you know Mosaic couldn't pay me so I had you know Mosaic couldn't pay me so I had to go and raise my own money so Not only to go and raise my own money so Not only to go and raise my own money so Not only was I quitting this super high paying was I quitting this super high paying was I quitting this super high paying job to not making anything at all and I job to not making anything at all and I job to not making anything at all and I had to go ask people for money so had to go ask people for money so had to go ask people for money so obviously that was a big deal um for for obviously that was a big deal um for for obviously that was a big deal um for for me and my wife but it was really a just me and my wife but it was really a just me and my wife but it was really a just I'm gonna obey God and trust trust that I'm gonna obey God and trust trust that I'm gonna obey God and trust trust that he's gonna he's gonna take care of me he's gonna he's gonna take care of me he's gonna he's gonna take care of me and my family and my family and my family so I so I so I I started this journey just to give it a I started this journey just to give it a I started this journey just to give it a little background on on kind of the little background on on kind of the little background on on kind of the church and in me church and in me church and in me um I was driving to Oman uh this was um I was driving to Oman uh this was um I was driving to Oman uh this was it's a country next door and I had to do it's a country next door and I had to do it's a country next door and I had to do a Visa Run to renew my Visa and on that a Visa Run to renew my Visa and on that a Visa Run to renew my Visa and on that drive it I always try to be productive drive it I always try to be productive drive it I always try to be productive and so I was listening to a book and in and so I was listening to a book and in and so I was listening to a book and in that book there's there's a story of

that book there's there's a story of that book there's there's a story of this High School principal his name was this High School principal his name was this High School principal his name was Greg green up in Detroit Michigan and in Greg green up in Detroit Michigan and in Greg green up in Detroit Michigan and in Detroit this is like 15 20 years ago the Detroit this is like 15 20 years ago the Detroit this is like 15 20 years ago the Auto industry was going down it wasn't Auto industry was going down it wasn't Auto industry was going down it wasn't very good so parents were out like very good so parents were out like very good so parents were out like looking for a second job or a third job looking for a second job or a third job looking for a second job or a third job or you know the kids were coming home or you know the kids were coming home or you know the kids were coming home they weren't doing their homework they weren't doing their homework they weren't doing their homework because no one was there to really take because no one was there to really take because no one was there to really take care of them and his his school was in care of them and his his school was in care of them and his his school was in the bottom three percent of all of the the bottom three percent of all of the the bottom three percent of all of the schools of Detroit so Greg was was schools of Detroit so Greg was was schools of Detroit so Greg was was scared of losing his job obviously and scared of losing his job obviously and scared of losing his job obviously and so besides being a principal he was also so besides being a principal he was also so besides being a principal he was also his kids baseball coach and he he um he his kids baseball coach and he he um he his kids baseball coach and he he um he created a series of videos that taught created a series of videos that taught created a series of videos that taught his baseball team on how to play his baseball team on how to play his baseball team on how to play baseball really the fundamentals of baseball really the fundamentals of baseball really the fundamentals of baseball baseball baseball and then he told them okay kids today and then he told them okay kids today and then he told them okay kids today we're gonna watch your videos two three we're gonna watch your videos two three we're gonna watch your videos two three and four when you show up we're gonna and four when you show up we're gonna and four when you show up we're gonna put that into practice put that into practice put that into practice and so whenever the kids showed up to and so whenever the kids showed up to and so whenever the kids showed up to practice they'd already kind of looked practice they'd already kind of looked practice they'd already kind of looked at it ahead of time their practices at it ahead of time their practices at it ahead of time their practices became more efficient they started became more efficient they started became more efficient they started winning games and so he said to himself winning games and so he said to himself winning games and so he said to himself well if that worked for my baseball team well if that worked for my baseball team well if that worked for my baseball team I wonder if that would work for my I wonder if that would work for my I wonder if that would work for my school because he's desperate right he's school because he's desperate right he's school because he's desperate right he's he's afraid he's going to lose his job he's afraid he's going to lose his job he's afraid he's going to lose his job and so he had a couple of his teachers and so he had a couple of his teachers and so he had a couple of his teachers film their lessons online kind of as a film their lessons online kind of as a film their lessons online kind of as a project and project and project and um the kids would watch the lessons um the kids would watch the lessons um the kids would watch the lessons online whether they were at home on the online whether they were at home on the online whether they were at home on the bus ride in wherever they had free time bus ride in wherever they had free time bus ride in wherever they had free time and when they showed up to the classroom and when they showed up to the classroom and when they showed up to the classroom they did the homework in the classroom they did the homework in the classroom they did the homework in the classroom rather than at home during the day he rather than at home during the day he rather than at home during the day he essentially flipped the model he was one essentially flipped the model he was one essentially flipped the model he was one of the early pioneers of online learning of the early pioneers of online learning of the early pioneers of online learning and after six months the kids in this

and after six months the kids in this and after six months the kids in this flip model scored higher than the gifted flip model scored higher than the gifted flip model scored higher than the gifted and talented in that same school and so and talented in that same school and so and talented in that same school and so I'm listening to this this story and and I'm listening to this this story and and I'm listening to this this story and and I'm thinking about church I'm a new I'm thinking about church I'm a new I'm thinking about church I'm a new pastor I was kind of frustrated you know pastor I was kind of frustrated you know pastor I was kind of frustrated you know it wasn't really going the way that I it wasn't really going the way that I it wasn't really going the way that I wanted it to do you know I I had high wanted it to do you know I I had high wanted it to do you know I I had high expectations right because I quit this expectations right because I quit this expectations right because I quit this really you know big job to do this to do really you know big job to do this to do really you know big job to do this to do what God told me to do and that was just what God told me to do and that was just what God told me to do and that was just I was a little bit frustrated and then I was a little bit frustrated and then I was a little bit frustrated and then so I'm hearing this story and I I began so I'm hearing this story and I I began so I'm hearing this story and I I began to think about it and I was like to think about it and I was like to think about it and I was like I felt like what God was telling me was I felt like what God was telling me was I felt like what God was telling me was to try to find a more effective way of to try to find a more effective way of to try to find a more effective way of doing church because I've been to a doing church because I've been to a doing church because I've been to a church the same way probably like most church the same way probably like most church the same way probably like most people that are listening to this you people that are listening to this you people that are listening to this you know I've it's a welcome a worship a know I've it's a welcome a worship a know I've it's a welcome a worship a sermon and maybe a closing song at the sermon and maybe a closing song at the sermon and maybe a closing song at the end right that's the way I've done end right that's the way I've done end right that's the way I've done church for 40 years and I had to ask church for 40 years and I had to ask church for 40 years and I had to ask myself a lot of why questions is that myself a lot of why questions is that myself a lot of why questions is that the best way to use people's time that the best way to use people's time that the best way to use people's time that hour you know hour and a half that we hour you know hour and a half that we hour you know hour and a half that we have together is that the best use of have together is that the best use of have together is that the best use of people's time people's time people's time um and then it came around to really um and then it came around to really um and then it came around to really just two questions just two questions just two questions um the first one is like what what do um the first one is like what what do um the first one is like what what do in-person services do better than online in-person services do better than online in-person services do better than online services like what is in person what is services like what is in person what is services like what is in person what is it actually just better at doing that it actually just better at doing that it actually just better at doing that you can't get online you can't get online you can't get online and then I thought about okay okay well and then I thought about okay okay well and then I thought about okay okay well what is what's what advantages does the what is what's what advantages does the what is what's what advantages does the internet have over in-person services internet have over in-person services internet have over in-person services those were like two fundamental those were like two fundamental those were like two fundamental questions that I asked myself to come up questions that I asked myself to come up questions that I asked myself to come up with a more effective way of doing with a more effective way of doing with a more effective way of doing Church Church Church um and so if you want to talk about like

um and so if you want to talk about like um and so if you want to talk about like if I were to ask you guys what does if I were to ask you guys what does if I were to ask you guys what does in-person services do better than online in-person services do better than online in-person services do better than online what would what would be some of the what would what would be some of the what would what would be some of the things that you would say yeah I mean I mean for me as a as a yeah I mean I mean for me as a as a pastor like just by Nature when I think pastor like just by Nature when I think pastor like just by Nature when I think about because about because about because and I've talked about this on the show and I've talked about this on the show and I've talked about this on the show at length at length at length navigating the collective navigating the collective navigating the collective grief of a global pandemic a lot of us grief of a global pandemic a lot of us grief of a global pandemic a lot of us in church found ourselves asking that in church found ourselves asking that in church found ourselves asking that very question like why are we gathering very question like why are we gathering very question like why are we gathering in person at all and we were we had the in person at all and we were we had the in person at all and we were we had the opportunity to ask that question because opportunity to ask that question because opportunity to ask that question because For the First Time Ever we weren't For the First Time Ever we weren't For the First Time Ever we weren't gathering in person we were we were gathering in person we were we were gathering in person we were we were pushed to the boundaries of our comfort pushed to the boundaries of our comfort pushed to the boundaries of our comfort zone and we were gathering online for a zone and we were gathering online for a zone and we were gathering online for a season and season and season and for us in our community and at least me for us in our community and at least me for us in our community and at least me within my own heart and as a pastor and within my own heart and as a pastor and within my own heart and as a pastor and as a person I just I it gave us the as a person I just I it gave us the as a person I just I it gave us the opportunity opportunity to relearn about opportunity opportunity to relearn about opportunity opportunity to relearn about the incarnational nature of this faith the incarnational nature of this faith the incarnational nature of this faith that like our faith our tradition how we that like our faith our tradition how we that like our faith our tradition how we practice our faith is by nature practice our faith is by nature practice our faith is by nature incarnational or in other words to say incarnational or in other words to say incarnational or in other words to say um embodied it's it's essential to be um embodied it's it's essential to be um embodied it's it's essential to be face-to-face arm to arm to break bread face-to-face arm to arm to break bread face-to-face arm to arm to break bread together to drink wine together to share together to drink wine together to share together to drink wine together to share a meal together to sing songs together a meal together to sing songs together a meal together to sing songs together to to do the things that we do together to to do the things that we do together to to do the things that we do together in in community like in physical in in community like in physical in in community like in physical proximity to one another and I think proximity to one another and I think proximity to one another and I think I think that the coveted pandemic gave I think that the coveted pandemic gave I think that the coveted pandemic gave us us us um the privilege to explore online um the privilege to explore online um the privilege to explore online opportunities and how to and and I I'm opportunities and how to and and I I'm opportunities and how to and and I I'm really thankful you shared that story

really thankful you shared that story really thankful you shared that story about that teacher in Detroit because about that teacher in Detroit because about that teacher in Detroit because um as a pioneer of online learning like um as a pioneer of online learning like um as a pioneer of online learning like trying new things it seems that trying new things it seems that trying new things it seems that it seems that he has has explored some it seems that he has has explored some it seems that he has has explored some new ways to learn that have been new ways to learn that have been new ways to learn that have been effective and and by using online tools effective and and by using online tools effective and and by using online tools and so we've had that opportunity to do and so we've had that opportunity to do and so we've had that opportunity to do the same thing in church to explore the same thing in church to explore the same thing in church to explore online church and ways to use digital online church and ways to use digital online church and ways to use digital mediums and Medias to to further to to mediums and Medias to to further to to mediums and Medias to to further to to help our church members take next steps help our church members take next steps help our church members take next steps in their life with Jesus but at the same in their life with Jesus but at the same in their life with Jesus but at the same time it has also given us afforded us time it has also given us afforded us time it has also given us afforded us the the opportunity to to the the opportunity to to the the opportunity to to ascribe new value to our in-person ascribe new value to our in-person ascribe new value to our in-person experiences our in-person worship our experiences our in-person worship our experiences our in-person worship our in-person prayer and so on both sides of in-person prayer and so on both sides of in-person prayer and so on both sides of that coin like we've been given this that coin like we've been given this that coin like we've been given this gift of exploring New Opportunities gift of exploring New Opportunities gift of exploring New Opportunities online while also reevaluating our online while also reevaluating our online while also reevaluating our relationship with our in-person services relationship with our in-person services relationship with our in-person services yeah that was a great great answer yeah that was a great great answer yeah that was a great great answer um how I would answer that I feel like um how I would answer that I feel like um how I would answer that I feel like what in person does better than online I what in person does better than online I what in person does better than online I feel like Community because we could feel like Community because we could feel like Community because we could have this conversation here online like have this conversation here online like have this conversation here online like we're doing now but if we were in person we're doing now but if we were in person we're doing now but if we were in person and we're together you know it creates and we're together you know it creates and we're together you know it creates more of a feeling uh whenever you're more of a feeling uh whenever you're more of a feeling uh whenever you're together in person so I feel like together in person so I feel like together in person so I feel like Community is better done in person I Community is better done in person I Community is better done in person I feel like worship worship is done better feel like worship worship is done better feel like worship worship is done better in person like whenever I hear whenever in person like whenever I hear whenever in person like whenever I hear whenever I'm singing with other Christians in the I'm singing with other Christians in the I'm singing with other Christians in the same room together it creates a feeling same room together it creates a feeling same room together it creates a feeling right versus watching right versus watching right versus watching um your favorite worship band on on the um your favorite worship band on on the um your favorite worship band on on the screen screen screen um I think I feel like prayer is better um I think I feel like prayer is better um I think I feel like prayer is better in person so like if I go and put my

in person so like if I go and put my in person so like if I go and put my hand on your shoulder and I look you in hand on your shoulder and I look you in hand on your shoulder and I look you in the eye and I pray for you versus the eye and I pray for you versus the eye and I pray for you versus getting a text hey I'm I'm praying for getting a text hey I'm I'm praying for getting a text hey I'm I'm praying for you that's what that's the that's what you that's what that's the that's what you that's what that's the that's what in person does better than online now I in person does better than online now I in person does better than online now I feel like I didn't that's I didn't feel like I didn't that's I didn't feel like I didn't that's I didn't really make that up I just made some really make that up I just made some really make that up I just made some observations right right and like in observations right right and like in observations right right and like in whenever I think about online I feel whenever I think about online I feel whenever I think about online I feel like online is better at at reach right like online is better at at reach right like online is better at at reach right you know we're reaching just like we've you know we're reaching just like we've you know we're reaching just like we've had a lot of success recently with our had a lot of success recently with our had a lot of success recently with our social media we've reached people from social media we've reached people from social media we've reached people from all all over the world it's not just all all over the world it's not just all all over the world it's not just Dubai it's Abu Dhabi it's India it's New Dubai it's Abu Dhabi it's India it's New Dubai it's Abu Dhabi it's India it's New Zealand it's all over the world the Zealand it's all over the world the Zealand it's all over the world the internet's created to to to for reach I internet's created to to to for reach I internet's created to to to for reach I feel like the internet's better at feel like the internet's better at feel like the internet's better at content delivery so like uh I can I can content delivery so like uh I can I can content delivery so like uh I can I can watch my my favorite sermon my favorite watch my my favorite sermon my favorite watch my my favorite sermon my favorite preachers from around the world and I preachers from around the world and I preachers from around the world and I can watch it and I can pause it I can go can watch it and I can pause it I can go can watch it and I can pause it I can go to the restroom come back I can get it to the restroom come back I can get it to the restroom come back I can get it going again I could take notes I could going again I could take notes I could going again I could take notes I could pause it you know I could watch it two pause it you know I could watch it two pause it you know I could watch it two three times if I had some questions so three times if I had some questions so three times if I had some questions so content delivery is it can be better content delivery is it can be better content delivery is it can be better online and I feel like convenience like online and I feel like convenience like online and I feel like convenience like 24 7 7 days a week whenever I want it uh 24 7 7 days a week whenever I want it uh 24 7 7 days a week whenever I want it uh that's just how online is just naturally that's just how online is just naturally that's just how online is just naturally better than than in person so so how I better than than in person so so how I better than than in person so so how I decided is that okay if if in person is decided is that okay if if in person is decided is that okay if if in person is better at this and online is better at better at this and online is better at better at this and online is better at that like just how they're naturally that like just how they're naturally that like just how they're naturally made why do we design our services why made why do we design our services why made why do we design our services why don't we design our in-person services don't we design our in-person services don't we design our in-person services around how they're just naturally made around how they're just naturally made around how they're just naturally made and so what we've essentially done is we and so what we've essentially done is we and so what we've essentially done is we still do a welcome worship sermon still do a welcome worship sermon still do a welcome worship sermon closing song Maybe at the end but but

closing song Maybe at the end but but closing song Maybe at the end but but what we did is we reduced our sermon what we did is we reduced our sermon what we did is we reduced our sermon time from a typical sermon for about 40 time from a typical sermon for about 40 time from a typical sermon for about 40 minutes we would reduce it to about 20 minutes we would reduce it to about 20 minutes we would reduce it to about 20 minutes and then we said okay now that minutes and then we said okay now that minutes and then we said okay now that 20 minutes that we saved why don't we do 20 minutes that we saved why don't we do 20 minutes that we saved why don't we do more of the things that in person is more of the things that in person is more of the things that in person is naturally better at like this community naturally better at like this community naturally better at like this community worship you know prayer so essentially worship you know prayer so essentially worship you know prayer so essentially we'll figure like 20 minute sermon and we'll figure like 20 minute sermon and we'll figure like 20 minute sermon and then after the end we'll break up into then after the end we'll break up into then after the end we'll break up into groups and we will have discussion groups and we will have discussion groups and we will have discussion questions around the sermon and that questions around the sermon and that questions around the sermon and that just what that does is it help you just what that does is it help you just what that does is it help you process it a little bit more it helps it process it a little bit more it helps it process it a little bit more it helps it it helps you take it maybe from your it helps you take it maybe from your it helps you take it maybe from your head to your heart and then maybe head to your heart and then maybe head to your heart and then maybe actually go and do it because one of the actually go and do it because one of the actually go and do it because one of the biggest problems we have as Christians biggest problems we have as Christians biggest problems we have as Christians is that we get a lot of information but is that we get a lot of information but is that we get a lot of information but we don't do anything with it right we don't do anything with it right we don't do anything with it right there's no change and so by by there's no change and so by by there's no change and so by by discussing it by processing it in the discussing it by processing it in the discussing it by processing it in the church service itself maybe you'll church service itself maybe you'll church service itself maybe you'll actually go out and do it and the second actually go out and do it and the second actually go out and do it and the second thing it does by breaking up into groups thing it does by breaking up into groups thing it does by breaking up into groups is that it allows you to make acre is that it allows you to make acre is that it allows you to make acre friend because you know as as pastors friend because you know as as pastors friend because you know as as pastors you know pastors maybe are listening to you know pastors maybe are listening to you know pastors maybe are listening to this you want your church to grow right this you want your church to grow right this you want your church to grow right and you got to ask yourself why do and you got to ask yourself why do and you got to ask yourself why do people why do people come back to my people why do people come back to my people why do people come back to my church for many of the times it's it's church for many of the times it's it's church for many of the times it's it's because of a friend that they've made or because of a friend that they've made or because of a friend that they've made or friendships that they've made inside of friendships that they've made inside of friendships that they've made inside of your church when when do we when do we your church when when do we when do we your church when when do we when do we allow friendships to form in a allow friendships to form in a allow friendships to form in a traditional church service well it's traditional church service well it's traditional church service well it's either before at the very end right we either before at the very end right we either before at the very end right we don't there's no time built into the don't there's no time built into the don't there's no time built into the service so we're building time with service so we're building time with service so we're building time with times within the service for you to times within the service for you to times within the service for you to allow people to actually make friends allow people to actually make friends allow people to actually make friends and hopefully come back again and our

and hopefully come back again and our and hopefully come back again and our our average return rate of first-time our average return rate of first-time our average return rate of first-time guest is about 30 percent which is guest is about 30 percent which is guest is about 30 percent which is um the average if you don't know the um the average if you don't know the um the average if you don't know the average for first-time guest return rate average for first-time guest return rate average for first-time guest return rate the average is 10 for churches and we're the average is 10 for churches and we're the average is 10 for churches and we're at 30 percent so there there's this at 30 percent so there there's this at 30 percent so there there's this ability to make friends in a church is ability to make friends in a church is ability to make friends in a church is is very important is very important is very important um so that was that's one type of um so that was that's one type of um so that was that's one type of service that we do another type of service that we do another type of service that we do another type of service that we do do is 20-minute service that we do do is 20-minute service that we do do is 20-minute sermon we break up into groups and we we sermon we break up into groups and we we sermon we break up into groups and we we pray for each other so only one person pray for each other so only one person pray for each other so only one person prays but we'll go around the group and prays but we'll go around the group and prays but we'll go around the group and each person will kind of say a prayer each person will kind of say a prayer each person will kind of say a prayer request and we we give people an out and request and we we give people an out and request and we we give people an out and tell them you know if you don't want uh tell them you know if you don't want uh tell them you know if you don't want uh if it's uncomfortable for you just say I if it's uncomfortable for you just say I if it's uncomfortable for you just say I pray for world peace right you know it's pray for world peace right you know it's pray for world peace right you know it's okay and occasionally that will happen okay and occasionally that will happen okay and occasionally that will happen but that's so much better than unspoken but that's so much better than unspoken but that's so much better than unspoken yes I like that yeah yes I like that yeah yes I like that yeah yeah you can all agree on world peace yeah you can all agree on world peace yeah you can all agree on world peace yeah yeah exactly we can all agree for yeah yeah exactly we can all agree for yeah yeah exactly we can all agree for that and so what it does it just shows that and so what it does it just shows that and so what it does it just shows people that you truly care for them like people that you truly care for them like people that you truly care for them like you know whenever someone's praying for you know whenever someone's praying for you know whenever someone's praying for your aunt that is sick with cancer you your aunt that is sick with cancer you your aunt that is sick with cancer you know it just like it's just like if it's know it just like it's just like if it's know it just like it's just like if it's real right you know the amount of the real right you know the amount of the real right you know the amount of the amount of crying that happens in those amount of crying that happens in those amount of crying that happens in those prayer groups prayer groups prayer groups um it happens every week every single um it happens every week every single um it happens every week every single week week week um another thing we do we do 20-minute um another thing we do we do 20-minute um another thing we do we do 20-minute sermon and then we will sermon and then we will sermon and then we will um we'll do like an interview with um we'll do like an interview with um we'll do like an interview with someone a professional in that area so someone a professional in that area so someone a professional in that area so maybe or maybe just someone who to maybe maybe or maybe just someone who to maybe maybe or maybe just someone who to maybe my sermon was about going through a my sermon was about going through a my sermon was about going through a really hard time and that what you really hard time and that what you really hard time and that what you learned from it and then I'll bring up learned from it and then I'll bring up learned from it and then I'll bring up Gary from the stage and Gary's like he

Gary from the stage and Gary's like he Gary from the stage and Gary's like he went through a really hard time this is went through a really hard time this is went through a really hard time this is what he learned from it and Gary's not a what he learned from it and Gary's not a what he learned from it and Gary's not a paid Christian he's just Gary and he's paid Christian he's just Gary and he's paid Christian he's just Gary and he's telling his life story right so it just telling his life story right so it just telling his life story right so it just makes it more real it makes it more makes it more real it makes it more makes it more real it makes it more authentic authentic authentic um so that's kind of like that's kind of um so that's kind of like that's kind of um so that's kind of like that's kind of how we're rethinking church and um it's how we're rethinking church and um it's how we're rethinking church and um it's been successful we've we've grown our been successful we've we've grown our been successful we've we've grown our average attendance two years ago with 60 average attendance two years ago with 60 average attendance two years ago with 60 it went to 120 in 12 months another 12 it went to 120 in 12 months another 12 it went to 120 in 12 months another 12 months later from 120 to 2 40. so we months later from 120 to 2 40. so we months later from 120 to 2 40. so we we've been seeing some um we've been we've been seeing some um we've been we've been seeing some um we've been seeing some growth we've been seeing um seeing some growth we've been seeing um seeing some growth we've been seeing um that this is this is for our church in that this is this is for our church in that this is this is for our church in our context this seems to be working and our context this seems to be working and our context this seems to be working and um it really the pandemic caused all um it really the pandemic caused all um it really the pandemic caused all this right it gave us free time like you this right it gave us free time like you this right it gave us free time like you just said Alex it gave us free time to just said Alex it gave us free time to just said Alex it gave us free time to think about what if like why are we why think about what if like why are we why think about what if like why are we why are we doing the things that we're doing are we doing the things that we're doing are we doing the things that we're doing um and so it yeah it's it's been really um and so it yeah it's it's been really um and so it yeah it's it's been really encouraging um for me as a as a pastor encouraging um for me as a as a pastor encouraging um for me as a as a pastor again who didn't want to be a pastor is again who didn't want to be a pastor is again who didn't want to be a pastor is not a traditional Pastor you know I uh I not a traditional Pastor you know I uh I not a traditional Pastor you know I uh I am am am and I think maybe that's why I've I've and I think maybe that's why I've I've and I think maybe that's why I've I've been able to do some of these things is been able to do some of these things is been able to do some of these things is because you know I could always go be in because you know I could always go be in because you know I could always go be in pilot again right if this fails no big pilot again right if this fails no big pilot again right if this fails no big deal you know I can still go be a pilot deal you know I can still go be a pilot deal you know I can still go be a pilot and I raise my own money so the church and I raise my own money so the church and I raise my own money so the church if they want to fire me okay whatever if they want to fire me okay whatever if they want to fire me okay whatever you know you know you know I'm taken care of right and so I'm able I'm taken care of right and so I'm able I'm taken care of right and so I'm able to take maybe risk that maybe some other to take maybe risk that maybe some other to take maybe risk that maybe some other people wouldn't take people wouldn't take people wouldn't take now now Jeremy I do I do feel like I can now now Jeremy I do I do feel like I can now now Jeremy I do I do feel like I can compelled to ask here because there are compelled to ask here because there are compelled to ask here because there are two things here that to me are fitting

two things here that to me are fitting two things here that to me are fitting together nicely and I I feel like I need together nicely and I I feel like I need together nicely and I I feel like I need to confront you about them you said I to confront you about them you said I to confront you about them you said I started this church I didn't want to be started this church I didn't want to be started this church I didn't want to be a pastor and now you've invented this a pastor and now you've invented this a pastor and now you've invented this new model that has basically cut your new model that has basically cut your new model that has basically cut your preaching time in half are those two preaching time in half are those two preaching time in half are those two things related things related things related well well well they go off into groups in France sounds they go off into groups in France sounds they go off into groups in France sounds like they're kind of doing your job like they're kind of doing your job like they're kind of doing your job let me tell you I told you I'm not a let me tell you I told you I'm not a let me tell you I told you I'm not a traditional Pastor I am probably one of traditional Pastor I am probably one of traditional Pastor I am probably one of the few pastors that doesn't like the few pastors that doesn't like the few pastors that doesn't like preaching I don't like preaching you're preaching I don't like preaching you're preaching I don't like preaching you're a good preacher though you're a good a good preacher though you're a good a good preacher though you're a good preacher I tell you um it's not my strong point I tell you um it's not my strong point honestly like because when I was a pilot honestly like because when I was a pilot honestly like because when I was a pilot right I dealt with one other person right I dealt with one other person right I dealt with one other person right beside me you know and I talked to right beside me you know and I talked to right beside me you know and I talked to computer and I had checklists right you computer and I had checklists right you computer and I had checklists right you know it was it was not a very I didn't know it was it was not a very I didn't know it was it was not a very I didn't have to do public speaking so I remember have to do public speaking so I remember have to do public speaking so I remember the very first time I spoke in my church the very first time I spoke in my church the very first time I spoke in my church I prepared 40 hours to speak for 30 I prepared 40 hours to speak for 30 I prepared 40 hours to speak for 30 minutes minutes minutes so you know it was it was yeah it was so so you know it was it was yeah it was so so you know it was it was yeah it was so tough uh now it probably takes me about tough uh now it probably takes me about tough uh now it probably takes me about 20 hours to speak for about 20 minutes 20 hours to speak for about 20 minutes 20 hours to speak for about 20 minutes but it is it is not my strong point I but it is it is not my strong point I but it is it is not my strong point I will just tell you that Jeremy it's so will just tell you that Jeremy it's so will just tell you that Jeremy it's so curious that you shared that story about curious that you shared that story about curious that you shared that story about and I I thank you for sharing your and I I thank you for sharing your and I I thank you for sharing your your experiment and your experience with your experiment and your experience with your experiment and your experience with this new model of church your new model this new model of church your new model this new model of church your new model of in-person services of in-person services of in-person services um but the story you shared about um but the story you shared about um but the story you shared about breaking off into groups and making breaking off into groups and making breaking off into groups and making friends It's Curious you share that friends It's Curious you share that friends It's Curious you share that because this week uh I I tried the same because this week uh I I tried the same because this week uh I I tried the same thing at our church uh we broke off in a thing at our church uh we broke off in a thing at our church uh we broke off in a lot of groups and and I had a question

lot of groups and and I had a question lot of groups and and I had a question that uh folks were to answer in a group that uh folks were to answer in a group that uh folks were to answer in a group and I noticed there's a new family who's and I noticed there's a new family who's and I noticed there's a new family who's been coming to our church and they've been coming to our church and they've been coming to our church and they've made some friends uh with their young made some friends uh with their young made some friends uh with their young family with young kids so they've made family with young kids so they've made family with young kids so they've made friends with people in the church who friends with people in the church who friends with people in the church who are young families with young kids are young families with young kids are young families with young kids um but they came in late and they were um but they came in late and they were um but they came in late and they were sitting next to someone who is not a sitting next to someone who is not a sitting next to someone who is not a young person and does not have young young person and does not have young young person and does not have young kids so someone that they are not uh kids so someone that they are not uh kids so someone that they are not uh naturally gravitated towards but when I naturally gravitated towards but when I naturally gravitated towards but when I said break off into groups I said you're said break off into groups I said you're said break off into groups I said you're in a group with people who are sitting in a group with people who are sitting in a group with people who are sitting next to you so they were in a group next to you so they were in a group next to you so they were in a group together after the service I noticed together after the service I noticed together after the service I noticed usually those people come up and hang usually those people come up and hang usually those people come up and hang out with the young family young kids but out with the young family young kids but out with the young family young kids but they were sitting there talking with the they were sitting there talking with the they were sitting there talking with the person that they had met in their group person that they had met in their group person that they had met in their group and so I can I resonate with that and and so I can I resonate with that and and so I can I resonate with that and anecdotally anecdotally anecdotally um that that works and and for you you um that that works and and for you you um that that works and and for you you said it it works in in the way that a said it it works in in the way that a said it it works in in the way that a lot of your first time visitors are lot of your first time visitors are lot of your first time visitors are coming back and that is so great your coming back and that is so great your coming back and that is so great your church your in-person services have been church your in-person services have been church your in-person services have been growing but you mentioned right off the growing but you mentioned right off the growing but you mentioned right off the top about your growth on social media top about your growth on social media top about your growth on social media and specifically recently you've and specifically recently you've and specifically recently you've experienced a lot of growth on social in experienced a lot of growth on social in experienced a lot of growth on social in fact the first video of yours that came fact the first video of yours that came fact the first video of yours that came across my feed to the Multicultural across my feed to the Multicultural across my feed to the Multicultural nature nature of your church was one of nature nature of your church was one of nature nature of your church was one of your worship services and there was a your worship services and there was a your worship services and there was a Spanish course in the song and I saw the Spanish course in the song and I saw the Spanish course in the song and I saw the church was Mosaic Dubai and I was like church was Mosaic Dubai and I was like church was Mosaic Dubai and I was like there's a lot of cultural stuff going on there's a lot of cultural stuff going on there's a lot of cultural stuff going on here which is really cool but you're here which is really cool but you're here which is really cool but you're coming across my feed you're coming coming across my feed you're coming coming across my feed you're coming across a lot of people's feeds uh you're across a lot of people's feeds uh you're across a lot of people's feeds uh you're reaching a lot of people online tell us reaching a lot of people online tell us reaching a lot of people online tell us more about your social strategy online more about your social strategy online more about your social strategy online as a church in Dubai as a church in Dubai as a church in Dubai uh well well first off that's um that's uh well well first off that's um that's uh well well first off that's um that's interesting that our church came across

interesting that our church came across interesting that our church came across your feet from Acro from around the your feet from Acro from around the your feet from Acro from around the world I mean I'm not sure if we follow world I mean I'm not sure if we follow world I mean I'm not sure if we follow each other and so that's that's just I each other and so that's that's just I each other and so that's that's just I mean social it's amazing mean social it's amazing mean social it's amazing um our um our strategy was social really um our um our strategy was social really um our um our strategy was social really it began with honestly with with it began with honestly with with it began with honestly with with um me doing social probably five six um me doing social probably five six um me doing social probably five six years ago I think if you're if you're a years ago I think if you're if you're a years ago I think if you're if you're a church plant Pastor or a small Church church plant Pastor or a small Church church plant Pastor or a small Church Pastor you're probably doing the social Pastor you're probably doing the social Pastor you're probably doing the social media for your church as well or media for your church as well or media for your church as well or um so it was me right I didn't have um so it was me right I didn't have um so it was me right I didn't have anyone else I had to I had to do it anyone else I had to I had to do it anyone else I had to I had to do it myself myself myself um and one thing that I learned just to um and one thing that I learned just to um and one thing that I learned just to maybe encourage some other maybe small maybe encourage some other maybe small maybe encourage some other maybe small Church pastors that are listening to Church pastors that are listening to Church pastors that are listening to this is um is to be able to find a way this is um is to be able to find a way this is um is to be able to find a way to replace yourself you know find people to replace yourself you know find people to replace yourself you know find people who are better than you and then cast who are better than you and then cast who are better than you and then cast some Vision around that of how they they some Vision around that of how they they some Vision around that of how they they can make a difference for for your can make a difference for for your can make a difference for for your church and that's essentially what I did church and that's essentially what I did church and that's essentially what I did is I I found people who were better than is I I found people who were better than is I I found people who were better than me me me um to be able to do it for the church um to be able to do it for the church um to be able to do it for the church and so I our current team we have four and so I our current team we have four and so I our current team we have four people that do our social media and each people that do our social media and each people that do our social media and each all of them are part-time staff at all of them are part-time staff at all of them are part-time staff at mosaic and they all do different roles mosaic and they all do different roles mosaic and they all do different roles so one we have Isabelle who's from so one we have Isabelle who's from so one we have Isabelle who's from Australia she's um she's our researcher Australia she's um she's our researcher Australia she's um she's our researcher she looks at kind of what what um what she looks at kind of what what um what she looks at kind of what what um what are some good ideas that we can have the are some good ideas that we can have the are some good ideas that we can have the team come up with and and make and then team come up with and and make and then team come up with and and make and then we have Sam who's from Rwanda he's our

we have Sam who's from Rwanda he's our we have Sam who's from Rwanda he's our videographer and he's like 23 years old videographer and he's like 23 years old videographer and he's like 23 years old he's just he's just killing it I mean he's just he's just killing it I mean he's just he's just killing it I mean he's doing so good he's so creative I he's doing so good he's so creative I he's doing so good he's so creative I mean I could never do the things that mean I could never do the things that mean I could never do the things that he's doing he makes us I tell him all he's doing he makes us I tell him all he's doing he makes us I tell him all the time he makes us look way better the time he makes us look way better the time he makes us look way better than what we really are he's amazing at than what we really are he's amazing at than what we really are he's amazing at that job and then we have Matt who does that job and then we have Matt who does that job and then we have Matt who does our graphic design he kind of makes sure our graphic design he kind of makes sure our graphic design he kind of makes sure that everything you know it looks good that everything you know it looks good that everything you know it looks good it makes sure he makes makes it clear it makes sure he makes makes it clear it makes sure he makes makes it clear that you know this is our standard like that you know this is our standard like that you know this is our standard like we don't want to go below the standard we don't want to go below the standard we don't want to go below the standard we're going to do a good job in we're going to do a good job in we're going to do a good job in everything that we do and then we have everything that we do and then we have everything that we do and then we have Carla uh who's from the Philippines I Carla uh who's from the Philippines I Carla uh who's from the Philippines I didn't tell you Matt is from Malta the didn't tell you Matt is from Malta the didn't tell you Matt is from Malta the island of Malta and then uh Carla who island of Malta and then uh Carla who island of Malta and then uh Carla who was our children's Minister she is from was our children's Minister she is from was our children's Minister she is from the Philippines and she writes all the the Philippines and she writes all the the Philippines and she writes all the captions and so our strategy what captions and so our strategy what captions and so our strategy what happens is every week they they get happens is every week they they get happens is every week they they get together and they go over uh the plan together and they go over uh the plan together and they go over uh the plan for the week that Isabel's come up with for the week that Isabel's come up with for the week that Isabel's come up with she writes it all out and Excel and you she writes it all out and Excel and you she writes it all out and Excel and you know she has like Monday Tuesday know she has like Monday Tuesday know she has like Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and she's got Wednesday Thursday Friday and she's got Wednesday Thursday Friday and she's got like uh she has like a Instagram and she like uh she has like a Instagram and she like uh she has like a Instagram and she has Instagram stories and she has like has Instagram stories and she has like has Instagram stories and she has like Tick Tock and YouTubes and she's got it Tick Tock and YouTubes and she's got it Tick Tock and YouTubes and she's got it all planned out on an Excel file where all planned out on an Excel file where all planned out on an Excel file where everybody can see it so everyone has everybody can see it so everyone has everybody can see it so everyone has access to this file and then they have a access to this file and then they have a access to this file and then they have a meeting every single week and they they meeting every single week and they they meeting every single week and they they basically put the put the plan into basically put the put the plan into basically put the put the plan into action at that point but really we have action at that point but really we have action at that point but really we have two big two big kind of like general two big two big kind of like general two big two big kind of like general rules when it comes to um social media rules when it comes to um social media rules when it comes to um social media um and don't hold us to this rules you

um and don't hold us to this rules you um and don't hold us to this rules you know if you if you were to go to our know if you if you were to go to our know if you if you were to go to our feed right now you know it's not going feed right now you know it's not going feed right now you know it's not going to be it's not going to be this every to be it's not going to be this every to be it's not going to be this every single post but this is the two rules single post but this is the two rules single post but this is the two rules that we try to try to make happen every that we try to try to make happen every that we try to try to make happen every time is the first one is that we we add time is the first one is that we we add time is the first one is that we we add value to someone else and it's not value to someone else and it's not value to someone else and it's not necessarily our church necessarily our church necessarily our church um because if we're just honest with um because if we're just honest with um because if we're just honest with each other we're just we're all selfish each other we're just we're all selfish each other we're just we're all selfish right everything's about us and so right everything's about us and so right everything's about us and so whenever we look on social media we are whenever we look on social media we are whenever we look on social media we are attracted to things that are going to attracted to things that are going to attracted to things that are going to make our lives better we're attracting make our lives better we're attracting make our lives better we're attracting the things that are useful and helpful the things that are useful and helpful the things that are useful and helpful for us or in Sometimes some cases for us or in Sometimes some cases for us or in Sometimes some cases entertain us right entertain us right entertain us right um and so for us as a church what I feel um and so for us as a church what I feel um and so for us as a church what I feel one of our one of our big rules our one of our one of our big rules our one of our one of our big rules our general rules is that every post should general rules is that every post should general rules is that every post should add value to someone else add value to someone else add value to someone else um so that's the first thing um so that's the first thing um so that's the first thing um the second thing is um the second thing is um the second thing is um we we show people how they can fit um we we show people how they can fit um we we show people how they can fit into our group because people are are into our group because people are are into our group because people are are you know whenever they come to a new you know whenever they come to a new you know whenever they come to a new city if they're going to decide whether city if they're going to decide whether city if they're going to decide whether they're going to come to your church or they're going to come to your church or they're going to come to your church or not you know they're gonna they're gonna not you know they're gonna they're gonna not you know they're gonna they're gonna gauge You by you know do I fit into that gauge You by you know do I fit into that gauge You by you know do I fit into that do I fit into that church you know are do I fit into that church you know are do I fit into that church you know are those people going to be my people those people going to be my people those people going to be my people and so we tried to take as many pictures and so we tried to take as many pictures and so we tried to take as many pictures of different nationalities different of different nationalities different of different nationalities different ages ages ages um doing different activities to try to um doing different activities to try to um doing different activities to try to show people hey you can fit in you can show people hey you can fit in you can show people hey you can fit in you can fit in with our church fit in with our church fit in with our church and so those are the those are the two and so those are the those are the two and so those are the those are the two general ideas or general rules that we general ideas or general rules that we general ideas or general rules that we have

have have um about us I think maybe if the third um about us I think maybe if the third um about us I think maybe if the third one is I would say that we we don't use one is I would say that we we don't use one is I would say that we we don't use social to promote ourselves too much we social to promote ourselves too much we social to promote ourselves too much we we use we use social to make someone's we use we use social to make someone's we use we use social to make someone's life better life better life better so it really shouldn't be you know one so it really shouldn't be you know one so it really shouldn't be you know one of my pet peeves is and I see these I of my pet peeves is and I see these I of my pet peeves is and I see these I mean I see this with even big churches mean I see this with even big churches mean I see this with even big churches doing this is hey I have this great new doing this is hey I have this great new doing this is hey I have this great new series that we're starting this week series that we're starting this week series that we're starting this week it's going to be amazing I can't wait to it's going to be amazing I can't wait to it's going to be amazing I can't wait to see you there right you know that that see you there right you know that that see you there right you know that that is a terrible way to promote uh promote is a terrible way to promote uh promote is a terrible way to promote uh promote your your your series you know if you're your your your series you know if you're your your your series you know if you're going to do something like that you going to do something like that you going to do something like that you should you should say something like um should you should say something like um should you should say something like um like this is what you're gonna get out like this is what you're gonna get out like this is what you're gonna get out of this out about what we're going to of this out about what we're going to of this out about what we're going to talk this week and this is how it's talk this week and this is how it's talk this week and this is how it's going to make your life better oh and going to make your life better oh and going to make your life better oh and it's this new series that we're starting it's this new series that we're starting it's this new series that we're starting whatever you know that's at the very whatever you know that's at the very whatever you know that's at the very very end of the of the post right but it very end of the of the post right but it very end of the of the post right but it it should start off with how you're it should start off with how you're it should start off with how you're going to make other people's lives going to make other people's lives going to make other people's lives better better better um so I think those are kind of the um so I think those are kind of the um so I think those are kind of the three if I had like some kind of like three if I had like some kind of like three if I had like some kind of like advice or maybe wisdom that maybe that advice or maybe wisdom that maybe that advice or maybe wisdom that maybe that I've learned over the years those are I've learned over the years those are I've learned over the years those are the three things that I would say the three things that I would say the three things that I would say so there was this period Jeremy of like so there was this period Jeremy of like so there was this period Jeremy of like about at least three years and I I about at least three years and I I about at least three years and I I confirmed this because I went on to confirmed this because I went on to confirmed this because I went on to socialblade.com and I signed up for the socialblade.com and I signed up for the socialblade.com and I signed up for the most expensive account that would let me most expensive account that would let me most expensive account that would let me go back up to two years to show the go back up to two years to show the go back up to two years to show the monthly data on your account because the monthly data on your account because the monthly data on your account because the whole time that is so funny because I whole time that is so funny because I whole time that is so funny because I tried to do the same thing and then tried to do the same thing and then tried to do the same thing and then asked me for for a credit card I was asked me for for a credit card I was asked me for for a credit card I was like yeah I'm not paying for this I was like yeah I'm not paying for this I was like yeah I'm not paying for this I was like I got to know I need to know so I

like I got to know I need to know so I like I got to know I need to know so I put in the credit card data and so I put in the credit card data and so I put in the credit card data and so I took this screen record and then I took this screen record and then I took this screen record and then I canceled that for a month where I could canceled that for a month where I could canceled that for a month where I could see week by week like there was not a see week by week like there was not a see week by week like there was not a single week where you did not as a single week where you did not as a single week where you did not as a church published three to five times and church published three to five times and church published three to five times and we're specifically talking about we're specifically talking about we're specifically talking about Instagram here and I think what drew me Instagram here and I think what drew me Instagram here and I think what drew me to wanting to talk to you and and to wanting to talk to you and and to wanting to talk to you and and highlight your Church's journey and highlight your Church's journey and highlight your Church's journey and story is that one thing that we try as a story is that one thing that we try as a story is that one thing that we try as a social media Doctrine to emphasize the social media Doctrine to emphasize the social media Doctrine to emphasize the churches more than anything is you can't churches more than anything is you can't churches more than anything is you can't take any weeks off you know hashtag no take any weeks off you know hashtag no take any weeks off you know hashtag no weeks off leave no days off to John Cena weeks off leave no days off to John Cena weeks off leave no days off to John Cena for the rock for your church at least no for the rock for your church at least no for the rock for your church at least no weeks off and you as a church were doing weeks off and you as a church were doing weeks off and you as a church were doing that and then if you looked at the that and then if you looked at the that and then if you looked at the traction traction traction or in this case lack thereof those or in this case lack thereof those or in this case lack thereof those efforts were not translating to momentum efforts were not translating to momentum efforts were not translating to momentum and at least in in terms of like new and at least in in terms of like new and at least in in terms of like new followers and and we always use new followers and and we always use new followers and and we always use new followers as a as a gauge not because followers as a as a gauge not because followers as a as a gauge not because new followers in and of itself matters new followers in and of itself matters new followers in and of itself matters but because each new follower is a but because each new follower is a but because each new follower is a person person person that found value in a post that you that found value in a post that you that found value in a post that you published published published and then took the time and energy to and then took the time and energy to and then took the time and energy to follow your Church's account because follow your Church's account because follow your Church's account because they want to hear more about the they want to hear more about the they want to hear more about the goodness of God and the promises of goodness of God and the promises of goodness of God and the promises of Jesus and then that is one step forward Jesus and then that is one step forward Jesus and then that is one step forward towards God one step forward towards towards God one step forward towards towards God one step forward towards church and so it acts as a proxy church and so it acts as a proxy church and so it acts as a proxy essentially for you know you making essentially for you know you making essentially for you know you making traction gaining it momentum how are you traction gaining it momentum how are you traction gaining it momentum how are you as a church able to you know after three as a church able to you know after three as a church able to you know after three years just be like yeah we're going to years just be like yeah we're going to years just be like yeah we're going to keep keep doing this like was there ever keep keep doing this like was there ever keep keep doing this like was there ever a thought maybe this energy and creative

a thought maybe this energy and creative a thought maybe this energy and creative time could be invested elsewhere maybe time could be invested elsewhere maybe time could be invested elsewhere maybe we're missing it we're missing it we're missing it yeah that's a that's a great question yeah that's a that's a great question yeah that's a that's a great question um um um I honestly I I honestly I I honestly I I really believed in what we were doing I really believed in what we were doing I really believed in what we were doing like I I wanted to you know when I set like I I wanted to you know when I set like I I wanted to you know when I set off 10 years ago I wanted to have the off 10 years ago I wanted to have the off 10 years ago I wanted to have the best website in town of all the churches best website in town of all the churches best website in town of all the churches in Dubai uh and I still want to have the in Dubai uh and I still want to have the in Dubai uh and I still want to have the best website even today best website even today best website even today um but probably about five years ago I um but probably about five years ago I um but probably about five years ago I wanted to have the best social media in wanted to have the best social media in wanted to have the best social media in town uh because I I knew that you know town uh because I I knew that you know town uh because I I knew that you know website that's how they're gonna they're website that's how they're gonna they're website that's how they're gonna they're gonna find us ten years ago these days gonna find us ten years ago these days gonna find us ten years ago these days it's probably a combination of website it's probably a combination of website it's probably a combination of website and social media and I wanted to attract and social media and I wanted to attract and social media and I wanted to attract as many people as I could and hopefully as many people as I could and hopefully as many people as I could and hopefully even you know non-believers I wanted even you know non-believers I wanted even you know non-believers I wanted non-believers to come and experience a non-believers to come and experience a non-believers to come and experience a relationship with God and so I I saw the relationship with God and so I I saw the relationship with God and so I I saw the potential of social media so I really potential of social media so I really potential of social media so I really did believe in what we were doing did believe in what we were doing did believe in what we were doing um and I wanted to have the best um and I wanted to have the best um and I wanted to have the best um social media of of our town um social media of of our town um social media of of our town and um so I think that was that was the and um so I think that was that was the and um so I think that was that was the driving force behind it because I driving force behind it because I driving force behind it because I believed in that it was eventually going believed in that it was eventually going believed in that it was eventually going to pay off that I believed that it was to pay off that I believed that it was to pay off that I believed that it was it was going to be worth the time and it was going to be worth the time and it was going to be worth the time and during the pandemic obviously the um during the pandemic obviously the um during the pandemic obviously the um everybody had to stop in person church everybody had to stop in person church everybody had to stop in person church right and so that gave every single right and so that gave every single right and so that gave every single Church in the world from small to large Church in the world from small to large Church in the world from small to large the opportunity to to show yourself to the opportunity to to show yourself to the opportunity to to show yourself to the world and you know I wanted to have the world and you know I wanted to have the world and you know I wanted to have the the best online Church in the city the the best online Church in the city the the best online Church in the city as well and so we we went in we invested

as well and so we we went in we invested as well and so we we went in we invested in videographers we invested in cameras in videographers we invested in cameras in videographers we invested in cameras we you know we took our time to research we you know we took our time to research we you know we took our time to research you know I probably haven't worked as you know I probably haven't worked as you know I probably haven't worked as hard as I did in my entire life than I hard as I did in my entire life than I hard as I did in my entire life than I did during the pandemic I was trying so did during the pandemic I was trying so did during the pandemic I was trying so hard to to keep hard to to keep hard to to keep um keep the quality and keep the the um keep the quality and keep the the um keep the quality and keep the the effectiveness of what we were doing effectiveness of what we were doing effectiveness of what we were doing during the pandemic and it honestly that during the pandemic and it honestly that during the pandemic and it honestly that paid off after the pandemic ended and paid off after the pandemic ended and paid off after the pandemic ended and you're able to go back to church again you're able to go back to church again you're able to go back to church again um people saw us whether it be you know um people saw us whether it be you know um people saw us whether it be you know online or via social media people saw us online or via social media people saw us online or via social media people saw us when they couldn't go to church and then when they couldn't go to church and then when they couldn't go to church and then they came and visited us after the they came and visited us after the they came and visited us after the pandemic was over so pandemic was over so pandemic was over so um I think the but you know the constant um I think the but you know the constant um I think the but you know the constant you know three plus years it's been a you know three plus years it's been a you know three plus years it's been a long time where we've been doing this long time where we've been doing this long time where we've been doing this I would say that even though the I would say that even though the I would say that even though the followers weren't growing you know you followers weren't growing you know you followers weren't growing you know you know tremendously know tremendously know tremendously I what I did see is that people were I what I did see is that people were I what I did see is that people were coming to our church in person uh coming to our church in person uh coming to our church in person uh because of social media and so you know because of social media and so you know because of social media and so you know when I looked at when I looked at okay when I looked at when I looked at okay when I looked at when I looked at okay maybe our followers aren't growing you maybe our followers aren't growing you maybe our followers aren't growing you know as much as we'd like as much as know as much as we'd like as much as know as much as we'd like as much as effort that we've been putting into it effort that we've been putting into it effort that we've been putting into it it doesn't feel like you know we're it doesn't feel like you know we're it doesn't feel like you know we're giving this getting this big traction giving this getting this big traction giving this getting this big traction but whenever I looked at the in person I but whenever I looked at the in person I but whenever I looked at the in person I did see people coming to our church as did see people coming to our church as did see people coming to our church as first-time guests it was attracting first-time guests it was attracting first-time guests it was attracting people and I began to notice other people and I began to notice other people and I began to notice other churches talking about us and I began to churches talking about us and I began to churches talking about us and I began to notice our influence going up because notice our influence going up because notice our influence going up because other people were seeing what we were

other people were seeing what we were other people were seeing what we were doing and they were like they realized doing and they were like they realized doing and they were like they realized that's not easy to do what we were doing that's not easy to do what we were doing that's not easy to do what we were doing is not easy to do and they saw that is not easy to do and they saw that is not easy to do and they saw that they're like they're they really are they're like they're they really are they're like they're they really are doing a good job doing a good job doing a good job so I think the encouragement of seeing so I think the encouragement of seeing so I think the encouragement of seeing the in-person the in-person the in-person um in person first-time guests coming um in person first-time guests coming um in person first-time guests coming from social media is what really from social media is what really from social media is what really encouraged us to keep going and keep encouraged us to keep going and keep encouraged us to keep going and keep doing it um year after year day after doing it um year after year day after doing it um year after year day after day week after week yeah okay I'm so day week after week yeah okay I'm so day week after week yeah okay I'm so glad you led me to this because I've glad you led me to this because I've glad you led me to this because I've been dying to ask you this question been dying to ask you this question been dying to ask you this question you're talking about people finding your you're talking about people finding your you're talking about people finding your church coming from social media if you church coming from social media if you church coming from social media if you go online to your Instagram even your go online to your Instagram even your go online to your Instagram even your website website website and uh I pretended to be a first-time and uh I pretended to be a first-time and uh I pretended to be a first-time visitor at your church this week I was visitor at your church this week I was visitor at your church this week I was going through your you know your plan of going through your you know your plan of going through your you know your plan of visit sequence and you get down to the visit sequence and you get down to the visit sequence and you get down to the point where it's like okay where do I go point where it's like okay where do I go point where it's like okay where do I go you have a little prompt that says DM us you have a little prompt that says DM us you have a little prompt that says DM us for the address and I have a question for the address and I have a question for the address and I have a question about that is that strategic to open a about that is that strategic to open a about that is that strategic to open a door to conversation uh to to talk with door to conversation uh to to talk with door to conversation uh to to talk with folks before they visit your church or folks before they visit your church or folks before they visit your church or is there something else going on there is there something else going on there is there something else going on there about the nature of being a Christian in about the nature of being a Christian in about the nature of being a Christian in Dubai that I just don't understand Dubai that I just don't understand Dubai that I just don't understand yeah that's a great question and it's yeah that's a great question and it's yeah that's a great question and it's the second thing in Dubai okay but I the second thing in Dubai okay but I the second thing in Dubai okay but I mean there could be some strategy in mean there could be some strategy in mean there could be some strategy in that around that idea I mean yeah that around that idea I mean yeah that around that idea I mean yeah definitely we frankly that that's definitely we frankly that that's definitely we frankly that that's something that's becoming more common in something that's becoming more common in something that's becoming more common in the world of online creating intentional the world of online creating intentional the world of online creating intentional barriers because every type of action barriers because every type of action barriers because every type of action that a person makes means that they have that a person makes means that they have that a person makes means that they have you know a bit more skin in the game or you know a bit more skin in the game or you know a bit more skin in the game or investment in following through with

investment in following through with investment in following through with what comes next so hey I mean thank God what comes next so hey I mean thank God what comes next so hey I mean thank God for the unfortunate legalities of the for the unfortunate legalities of the for the unfortunate legalities of the country of you know the UAE they're country of you know the UAE they're country of you know the UAE they're aligning nicely with the best practices aligning nicely with the best practices aligning nicely with the best practices of e-commerce and digital media as it's of e-commerce and digital media as it's of e-commerce and digital media as it's working for you now Jeremy I wanted to working for you now Jeremy I wanted to working for you now Jeremy I wanted to to ask about to ask about to ask about you said 60 of new people that visit you said 60 of new people that visit you said 60 of new people that visit your church say they come from social your church say they come from social your church say they come from social did I get that right and if so how do did I get that right and if so how do did I get that right and if so how do you know that you know that you know that yeah it's a great question we um every yeah it's a great question we um every yeah it's a great question we um every single person that comes to our church single person that comes to our church single person that comes to our church for the very first time we give them a for the very first time we give them a for the very first time we give them a Starbucks gift card and so how we track Starbucks gift card and so how we track Starbucks gift card and so how we track everything is is whenever they give us everything is is whenever they give us everything is is whenever they give us whenever we give them the Starbucks gift whenever we give them the Starbucks gift whenever we give them the Starbucks gift card we ask for their name and number card we ask for their name and number card we ask for their name and number and one of the questions we ask in and one of the questions we ask in and one of the questions we ask in addition to that is how did you hear addition to that is how did you hear addition to that is how did you hear about us and so about us and so about us and so um we're able to track that data from um we're able to track that data from um we're able to track that data from that question from our first time guest that question from our first time guest that question from our first time guest and what we also find is that sometimes and what we also find is that sometimes and what we also find is that sometimes people will say oh my friend my my people will say oh my friend my my people will say oh my friend my my friend invited me to come to church but friend invited me to come to church but friend invited me to come to church but they've been watching us online for for they've been watching us online for for they've been watching us online for for a while as well like the friend found us a while as well like the friend found us a while as well like the friend found us from online so the we're seeing like from online so the we're seeing like from online so the we're seeing like return on investments uh multiple times return on investments uh multiple times return on investments uh multiple times and and as a follow-up to that and and as a follow-up to that and and as a follow-up to that it's so common for church leaders to it's so common for church leaders to it's so common for church leaders to hear from their own senior leadership or hear from their own senior leadership or hear from their own senior leadership or we have doubts internally ourselves I'm we have doubts internally ourselves I'm we have doubts internally ourselves I'm putting all this effort into social how putting all this effort into social how putting all this effort into social how does that make a difference in my actual does that make a difference in my actual does that make a difference in my actual Church Church Church so what would you say to a pastor that

so what would you say to a pastor that so what would you say to a pastor that worries about that themselves or hears worries about that themselves or hears worries about that themselves or hears that objection from their own senior that objection from their own senior that objection from their own senior leadership well honestly that question sounds like well honestly that question sounds like someone who's more concerned about the someone who's more concerned about the someone who's more concerned about the people that are currently in their people that are currently in their people that are currently in their Church than people outside their Church Church than people outside their Church Church than people outside their Church um um um social media social media social media and and it's maybe a little bit and and it's maybe a little bit and and it's maybe a little bit controversial but the way that I use controversial but the way that I use controversial but the way that I use social media is that I use social media social media is that I use social media social media is that I use social media to get people to come to my in-person to get people to come to my in-person to get people to come to my in-person services services services and so I um we are and so I um we are and so I um we are I'm a little controversial on this I'm a little controversial on this I'm a little controversial on this subject in the sense that I don't subject in the sense that I don't subject in the sense that I don't believe too much believe too much believe too much um about engagement um about engagement um about engagement um online so here's a here's an example um online so here's a here's an example um online so here's a here's an example I don't I probably watch I don't I probably watch I don't I probably watch you know in a month 30 40 50 YouTube you know in a month 30 40 50 YouTube you know in a month 30 40 50 YouTube videos I like to learn right I'm a videos I like to learn right I'm a videos I like to learn right I'm a learner and so I'm watching videos all learner and so I'm watching videos all learner and so I'm watching videos all the time the time the time the amount that I've I probably comment the amount that I've I probably comment the amount that I've I probably comment on one video out of 1000 videos that I on one video out of 1000 videos that I on one video out of 1000 videos that I watch on YouTube more than me watch on YouTube more than me watch on YouTube more than me more than you yeah exactly and so I I'm more than you yeah exactly and so I I'm more than you yeah exactly and so I I'm not sure that I buy and I buy heavily not sure that I buy and I buy heavily not sure that I buy and I buy heavily into the engagement on on into the engagement on on into the engagement on on um online you know social media type of um online you know social media type of um online you know social media type of stuff stuff stuff there is value in it don't get me wrong there is value in it don't get me wrong there is value in it don't get me wrong there is value in it but I use social to there is value in it but I use social to there is value in it but I use social to get people into the room get people into the room get people into the room um so that's how I use it and for a um so that's how I use it and for a um so that's how I use it and for a pastor that says is it worth it I mean

pastor that says is it worth it I mean pastor that says is it worth it I mean if you want more people to come to your if you want more people to come to your if you want more people to come to your church yeah it's worth it church yeah it's worth it church yeah it's worth it it's a bit paradoxical isn't it because it's a bit paradoxical isn't it because it's a bit paradoxical isn't it because you emphasized earlier that one of your you emphasized earlier that one of your you emphasized earlier that one of your Church's rules for social is delivering Church's rules for social is delivering Church's rules for social is delivering value and yet the end goal you're trying value and yet the end goal you're trying value and yet the end goal you're trying to achieve is to get them to visit you to achieve is to get them to visit you to achieve is to get them to visit you in person which is not something that in person which is not something that in person which is not something that would be considered valuable to them at would be considered valuable to them at would be considered valuable to them at least where the average person is least where the average person is least where the average person is throughout their day yes there's value throughout their day yes there's value throughout their day yes there's value in visiting church because we know how in visiting church because we know how in visiting church because we know how valuable it is to be part of a faith valuable it is to be part of a faith valuable it is to be part of a faith community but if it was that clear well community but if it was that clear well community but if it was that clear well everyone will be part of a faith everyone will be part of a faith everyone will be part of a faith community and we know that's not true community and we know that's not true community and we know that's not true and so it's not something that is and so it's not something that is and so it's not something that is immediately valuable to people and that immediately valuable to people and that immediately valuable to people and that is the Paradox you deliver value to is the Paradox you deliver value to is the Paradox you deliver value to people essentially asking them for people essentially asking them for people essentially asking them for nothing in return and then over time nothing in return and then over time nothing in return and then over time through that trust that you build that through that trust that you build that through that trust that you build that translates to then because you've built translates to then because you've built translates to then because you've built that trust them responding when you make that trust them responding when you make that trust them responding when you make that invitation but you first have to that invitation but you first have to that invitation but you first have to earn that trust it's the exact same way earn that trust it's the exact same way earn that trust it's the exact same way that Pro Church tools ever became a that Pro Church tools ever became a that Pro Church tools ever became a thing I was a 21 year old kid from like thing I was a 21 year old kid from like thing I was a 21 year old kid from like Northern Canada and I was like guys I'm Northern Canada and I was like guys I'm Northern Canada and I was like guys I'm I'm going to help your church build a I'm going to help your church build a I'm going to help your church build a Facebook page and really truthfully Facebook page and really truthfully Facebook page and really truthfully there was no one else anyone could there was no one else anyone could there was no one else anyone could listen to because nobody cared about listen to because nobody cared about listen to because nobody cared about Facebook at that time we might as well Facebook at that time we might as well Facebook at that time we might as well listen to this kid oh that he helped us listen to this kid oh that he helped us listen to this kid oh that he helped us build the Facebook page now we have a build the Facebook page now we have a build the Facebook page now we have a bit more trust in him now I'll consider bit more trust in him now I'll consider bit more trust in him now I'll consider joining his email list we launched a joining his email list we launched a joining his email list we launched a product now I'll consider purchasing product now I'll consider purchasing product now I'll consider purchasing that and so this is the great Paradox of that and so this is the great Paradox of that and so this is the great Paradox of digital media and of social media that digital media and of social media that digital media and of social media that is truly difficult to sometimes Define is truly difficult to sometimes Define is truly difficult to sometimes Define for people that are maybe of a different for people that are maybe of a different for people that are maybe of a different generation or are not especially generation or are not especially generation or are not especially digitally uh you know aware of how this

digitally uh you know aware of how this digitally uh you know aware of how this all works that you kind of give away all works that you kind of give away all works that you kind of give away value expecting nothing in return and value expecting nothing in return and value expecting nothing in return and yet that is what inevitably drives the yet that is what inevitably drives the yet that is what inevitably drives the results that you're hoping to see yeah results that you're hoping to see yeah results that you're hoping to see yeah yeah yeah yeah I've seen it and and to your credit I've seen it and and to your credit I've seen it and and to your credit Jeremy like your your social strategy Jeremy like your your social strategy Jeremy like your your social strategy what you do really well is this marriage what you do really well is this marriage what you do really well is this marriage between uh the type of content online between uh the type of content online between uh the type of content online that that kind of is and ask to come an that that kind of is and ask to come an that that kind of is and ask to come an invitation to come to your in-person invitation to come to your in-person invitation to come to your in-person services and posts that are celebrating services and posts that are celebrating services and posts that are celebrating and acknowledging people who already and acknowledging people who already and acknowledging people who already belong to your community like one of my belong to your community like one of my belong to your community like one of my favorite posts I saw from your um favorite posts I saw from your um favorite posts I saw from your um Instagram account this week is one that Instagram account this week is one that Instagram account this week is one that just says for Dubai and the caption says just says for Dubai and the caption says just says for Dubai and the caption says like we're all about to buy here are like we're all about to buy here are like we're all about to buy here are some people in our community that you some people in our community that you some people in our community that you should check out and you just should check out and you just should check out and you just highlighted five or six or seven folks highlighted five or six or seven folks highlighted five or six or seven folks in your community who like own small in your community who like own small in your community who like own small businesses or what have you and so like businesses or what have you and so like businesses or what have you and so like that's not that's not an ask to come to that's not that's not an ask to come to that's not that's not an ask to come to your in-person service that's just a your in-person service that's just a your in-person service that's just a post that does really well about post that does really well about post that does really well about celebrating people who already belong to celebrating people who already belong to celebrating people who already belong to your community but at the same time you your community but at the same time you your community but at the same time you do have posts that are are designed to do have posts that are are designed to do have posts that are are designed to reach people who don't belong to your reach people who don't belong to your reach people who don't belong to your community and like you said that's community and like you said that's community and like you said that's proving to work really well for you so proving to work really well for you so proving to work really well for you so it seems that your social media strategy it seems that your social media strategy it seems that your social media strategy is balance saying that really well a is balance saying that really well a is balance saying that really well a good diversity of posts that reach wide good diversity of posts that reach wide good diversity of posts that reach wide but also go deep with people who already but also go deep with people who already but also go deep with people who already belong to your community and you can belong to your community and you can belong to your community and you can still see the North Point ties there the still see the North Point ties there the still see the North Point ties there the hashtag for Dubai right that's right you hashtag for Dubai right that's right you hashtag for Dubai right that's right you know famously hashtag for Gwinnett and know famously hashtag for Gwinnett and know famously hashtag for Gwinnett and things like that Jeremy let me ask you things like that Jeremy let me ask you things like that Jeremy let me ask you about kind of the explosive growth on about kind of the explosive growth on about kind of the explosive growth on social that you have experienced in the

social that you have experienced in the social that you have experienced in the last year or so I think about a year ago last year or so I think about a year ago last year or so I think about a year ago thanks to that social blade data your thanks to that social blade data your thanks to that social blade data your account on Instagram sitting at roughly account on Instagram sitting at roughly account on Instagram sitting at roughly 1500 followers today it's roughly 1500 followers today it's roughly 1500 followers today it's roughly fifteen thousand north of that now so fifteen thousand north of that now so fifteen thousand north of that now so that's 10x growth in a year that's 10x growth in a year that's 10x growth in a year and I think there was a 30-day period and I think there was a 30-day period and I think there was a 30-day period where there was roughly 10 000 new where there was roughly 10 000 new where there was roughly 10 000 new followers in that time so was there a followers in that time so was there a followers in that time so was there a single post or two that was was driving single post or two that was was driving single post or two that was was driving that you know Discovery era of social a that you know Discovery era of social a that you know Discovery era of social a post gets indexed on the algorithm a ton post gets indexed on the algorithm a ton post gets indexed on the algorithm a ton of people are seeing it and that's of people are seeing it and that's of people are seeing it and that's driving the new followers driving the new followers driving the new followers yes definitely yes definitely yes definitely um you know we've been I feel like as a um you know we've been I feel like as a um you know we've been I feel like as a church we've been putting out great church we've been putting out great church we've been putting out great content for for years it's like well content for for years it's like well content for for years it's like well that's how it goes why now yeah why like that's how it goes why now yeah why like that's how it goes why now yeah why like why did this happen why did this happen why did this happen um but yeah we had two videos that went um but yeah we had two videos that went um but yeah we had two videos that went viral over a million views per per video viral over a million views per per video viral over a million views per per video and they were both of uh of a a guy from and they were both of uh of a a guy from and they were both of uh of a a guy from India named Benny Prasad and he bitty India named Benny Prasad and he bitty India named Benny Prasad and he bitty was great at telling stories you know he was great at telling stories you know he was great at telling stories you know he was great at telling stories was great at telling stories was great at telling stories um he was able to to hook people you um he was able to to hook people you um he was able to to hook people you know Sam our videographer was able to know Sam our videographer was able to know Sam our videographer was able to create a a real where it hooked people create a a real where it hooked people create a a real where it hooked people in that first you know three seconds or in that first you know three seconds or in that first you know three seconds or so and then it had the words going so and then it had the words going so and then it had the words going across the screen to where you could you across the screen to where you could you across the screen to where you could you could read it without having the audio could read it without having the audio could read it without having the audio on on on um it um you know it was good audio it's um it um you know it was good audio it's um it um you know it was good audio it's good video and I think a combination good video and I think a combination good video and I think a combination with that and his great storytelling with that and his great storytelling with that and his great storytelling um and the fact that we just been doing um and the fact that we just been doing um and the fact that we just been doing this for years and making tons of this for years and making tons of this for years and making tons of mistakes and making it better uh allowed

mistakes and making it better uh allowed mistakes and making it better uh allowed it to um just go viral and honestly it it to um just go viral and honestly it it to um just go viral and honestly it was a shock to all of us we didn't we was a shock to all of us we didn't we was a shock to all of us we didn't we did not expect it we did not plan it it did not expect it we did not plan it it did not expect it we did not plan it it was nothing that we did to we just been was nothing that we did to we just been was nothing that we did to we just been doing the same things that we've been doing the same things that we've been doing the same things that we've been doing for years doing for years doing for years um and for some reason that one went off um and for some reason that one went off um and for some reason that one went off I think it's partly it could be a little I think it's partly it could be a little I think it's partly it could be a little bit because he has a following on his bit because he has a following on his bit because he has a following on his own of like 20 000 plus followers or own of like 20 000 plus followers or own of like 20 000 plus followers or something and so maybe his followers got something and so maybe his followers got something and so maybe his followers got a hold of it and and that helped with it a hold of it and and that helped with it a hold of it and and that helped with it uh but yeah I just went viral there was uh but yeah I just went viral there was uh but yeah I just went viral there was over the past 13 I looked at it just over the past 13 I looked at it just over the past 13 I looked at it just prior to this over the past 90 days prior to this over the past 90 days prior to this over the past 90 days we've had 14 000 new followers wow we've had 14 000 new followers wow we've had 14 000 new followers wow um which is yeah I'm unexpected another um which is yeah I'm unexpected another um which is yeah I'm unexpected another interesting thing that kind of throws interesting thing that kind of throws interesting thing that kind of throws off the subject a little bit but we also off the subject a little bit but we also off the subject a little bit but we also had 900 unfollows in that same three had 900 unfollows in that same three had 900 unfollows in that same three months so um but yeah of 14 000 new followers um but yeah of 14 000 new followers um yeah it's just been um every time I um yeah it's just been um every time I um yeah it's just been um every time I open up my Instagram it's just like open up my Instagram it's just like open up my Instagram it's just like bombarded with likes and comments and bombarded with likes and comments and bombarded with likes and comments and you know it's overwhelming I've never you know it's overwhelming I've never you know it's overwhelming I've never experienced that before it you know for experienced that before it you know for experienced that before it you know for people that have large followings like I people that have large followings like I people that have large followings like I even like Brady it's it can be even like Brady it's it can be even like Brady it's it can be overwhelming every time you open up that overwhelming every time you open up that overwhelming every time you open up that that app well let's talk about that that app well let's talk about that that app well let's talk about that because so for me I have never had a because so for me I have never had a because so for me I have never had a moment where things kind of went like moment where things kind of went like moment where things kind of went like 10x truly overnight 10x truly overnight 10x truly overnight uh and I've always been very grateful uh and I've always been very grateful uh and I've always been very grateful for that yeah we've been at this for 10 for that yeah we've been at this for 10 for that yeah we've been at this for 10 years and it's been this slow

years and it's been this slow years and it's been this slow Progressive growth over that 10 years Progressive growth over that 10 years Progressive growth over that 10 years and why I've always been so grateful for and why I've always been so grateful for and why I've always been so grateful for that as you know as a 32 year old that as you know as a 32 year old that as you know as a 32 year old starting you know in my very early 20s starting you know in my very early 20s starting you know in my very early 20s what was nice is as my influence grew so what was nice is as my influence grew so what was nice is as my influence grew so did my character and competency along did my character and competency along did my character and competency along with it and I think for me at least if with it and I think for me at least if with it and I think for me at least if you now retroactively had given me the you now retroactively had given me the you now retroactively had given me the choice of like super extreme growth in choice of like super extreme growth in choice of like super extreme growth in that first two years or same amount of that first two years or same amount of that first two years or same amount of growth over 10 I would take the latter growth over 10 I would take the latter growth over 10 I would take the latter because sometimes growth that's that because sometimes growth that's that because sometimes growth that's that fast it's too much too fast and I think fast it's too much too fast and I think fast it's too much too fast and I think like there are people listening that are like there are people listening that are like there are people listening that are like okay can we just ask Pastor Jeremy like okay can we just ask Pastor Jeremy like okay can we just ask Pastor Jeremy about like the comments because people about like the comments because people about like the comments because people get negative comments because that's the get negative comments because that's the get negative comments because that's the discovery era algorithm that's how it discovery era algorithm that's how it discovery era algorithm that's how it works you're going to be seen by people works you're going to be seen by people works you're going to be seen by people that don't know you they have no rapport that don't know you they have no rapport that don't know you they have no rapport with you and so they don't really feel with you and so they don't really feel with you and so they don't really feel any respect or care towards you and any respect or care towards you and any respect or care towards you and they're going to tell you their honest they're going to tell you their honest they're going to tell you their honest opinions and sometimes especially in the opinions and sometimes especially in the opinions and sometimes especially in the world of Faith they can be quite world of Faith they can be quite world of Faith they can be quite inflammatory how have you and the team inflammatory how have you and the team inflammatory how have you and the team managed those comments that are managed those comments that are managed those comments that are inevitable when you get reach of that inevitable when you get reach of that inevitable when you get reach of that magnitude magnitude magnitude yeah unexpected was the first word I yeah unexpected was the first word I yeah unexpected was the first word I mean I did not expect that mean I did not expect that mean I did not expect that um there were a lot of hurtful mean um there were a lot of hurtful mean um there were a lot of hurtful mean comments I mean just like comments I mean just like comments I mean just like and it wasn't necessarily about me or my and it wasn't necessarily about me or my and it wasn't necessarily about me or my I mean Benny is was a guest speaker at I mean Benny is was a guest speaker at I mean Benny is was a guest speaker at my church right so he we did an my church right so he we did an my church right so he we did an interview him for 20 minutes at my interview him for 20 minutes at my interview him for 20 minutes at my church and that thing went off viral you church and that thing went off viral you church and that thing went off viral you know so it they were they were talking know so it they were they were talking know so it they were they were talking bad about about Benny

bad about about Benny bad about about Benny um talking about how his voice sounded um talking about how his voice sounded um talking about how his voice sounded like a girl and just mean terrible like a girl and just mean terrible like a girl and just mean terrible things and after about a couple days of things and after about a couple days of things and after about a couple days of that where we saw these things coming that where we saw these things coming that where we saw these things coming out we decided as a team it's like we're out we decided as a team it's like we're out we decided as a team it's like we're gonna start deleting comments so we gonna start deleting comments so we gonna start deleting comments so we deleted comments deleted comments deleted comments um that were negative or or just mean it um that were negative or or just mean it um that were negative or or just mean it was just honestly it was shocking for us was just honestly it was shocking for us was just honestly it was shocking for us but we didn't know what to do we were but we didn't know what to do we were but we didn't know what to do we were kind of like stuck in that in that phase kind of like stuck in that in that phase kind of like stuck in that in that phase of like what is going on you know we of like what is going on you know we of like what is going on you know we open up the app every time and it's just open up the app every time and it's just open up the app every time and it's just blowing up and um yeah we decided to blowing up and um yeah we decided to blowing up and um yeah we decided to delete delete negative comments delete delete negative comments delete delete negative comments that's being one of the the things that that's being one of the the things that that's being one of the the things that I was most encouraged to hear and I I was most encouraged to hear and I I was most encouraged to hear and I didn't know this prior to this didn't know this prior to this didn't know this prior to this conversation was that prior to this you conversation was that prior to this you conversation was that prior to this you know hockey stick upward growth sorry know hockey stick upward growth sorry know hockey stick upward growth sorry Canadian reference also a little bit of Canadian reference also a little bit of Canadian reference also a little bit of a difficulty earlier hearing you say a difficulty earlier hearing you say a difficulty earlier hearing you say that Dubai was the most Multicultural that Dubai was the most Multicultural that Dubai was the most Multicultural city in the world the indoctrination city in the world the indoctrination city in the world the indoctrination they give to us Canadians growing up is they give to us Canadians growing up is they give to us Canadians growing up is Toronto is the most cultural city in the Toronto is the most cultural city in the Toronto is the most cultural city in the world so I'm I'm really coming to terms world so I'm I'm really coming to terms world so I'm I'm really coming to terms with something right now I have to do with something right now I have to do with something right now I have to do some independent research you'll see in some independent research you'll see in some independent research you'll see in February confront my own biases yeah February confront my own biases yeah February confront my own biases yeah absolutely it's really encouraging to absolutely it's really encouraging to absolutely it's really encouraging to hear people were coming to your church hear people were coming to your church hear people were coming to your church from social before you had like this from social before you had like this from social before you had like this huge moment online and I think every huge moment online and I think every huge moment online and I think every Pastor in church needs to hear that you Pastor in church needs to hear that you Pastor in church needs to hear that you don't need to have this crazy moment don't need to have this crazy moment don't need to have this crazy moment where you go crazy online you don't need where you go crazy online you don't need where you go crazy online you don't need to have thousands of followers you can to have thousands of followers you can to have thousands of followers you can just be a typical everyday Church you just be a typical everyday Church you just be a typical everyday Church you know a few years ago when people were know a few years ago when people were know a few years ago when people were coming for the first time still 60 coming for the first time still 60 coming for the first time still 60 people a few years ago four years ago I people a few years ago four years ago I people a few years ago four years ago I think you said you know like that's the

think you said you know like that's the think you said you know like that's the average size Church in America around average size Church in America around average size Church in America around the world still connecting with people the world still connecting with people the world still connecting with people through so social connecting them to through so social connecting them to through so social connecting them to your church I wanted to ask we know on your church I wanted to ask we know on your church I wanted to ask we know on social platforms with Discovery social platforms with Discovery social platforms with Discovery algorithms there is a local component algorithms there is a local component algorithms there is a local component meaning you're more likely to see meaning you're more likely to see meaning you're more likely to see content if it is local to you that content if it is local to you that content if it is local to you that doesn't mean Alex won't come across doesn't mean Alex won't come across doesn't mean Alex won't come across mosaic's content from around the world mosaic's content from around the world mosaic's content from around the world but how many times have I been following but how many times have I been following but how many times have I been following a Creator only to find out they were a Creator only to find out they were a Creator only to find out they were Canadian like they were Canadian I Canadian like they were Canadian I Canadian like they were Canadian I remember being with a pastor in Hawaii remember being with a pastor in Hawaii remember being with a pastor in Hawaii on the island of Kauai and we're on the island of Kauai and we're on the island of Kauai and we're shopping in Target and people are coming shopping in Target and people are coming shopping in Target and people are coming up to him because he had a big Tick Tock up to him because he had a big Tick Tock up to him because he had a big Tick Tock following at the time saying hey Pastor following at the time saying hey Pastor following at the time saying hey Pastor Alex and him being like yeah that Alex and him being like yeah that Alex and him being like yeah that happens because there was this local happens because there was this local happens because there was this local geographical element geographical element geographical element do you have any insights on that as do you have any insights on that as do you have any insights on that as someone that has you know reached wide someone that has you know reached wide someone that has you know reached wide now on Instagram now on Instagram now on Instagram no I I do because I I was curious about no I I do because I I was curious about no I I do because I I was curious about that because when I would look at the that because when I would look at the that because when I would look at the followers I would see that the majority followers I would see that the majority followers I would see that the majority of them were coming from India and so I of them were coming from India and so I of them were coming from India and so I would say the majority of the followers would say the majority of the followers would say the majority of the followers ended up coming from Benny prasad's kind ended up coming from Benny prasad's kind ended up coming from Benny prasad's kind of group of followers his kind of of group of followers his kind of of group of followers his kind of influence and so I I would say the influence and so I I would say the influence and so I I would say the majority of them came from India and majority of them came from India and majority of them came from India and honestly not not a ton of followers from honestly not not a ton of followers from honestly not not a ton of followers from um from the UAE local which you would um from the UAE local which you would um from the UAE local which you would think it would be more local but think it would be more local but think it would be more local but honestly it wasn't honestly it wasn't honestly it wasn't um because it was probably Benny's group um because it was probably Benny's group um because it was probably Benny's group that was like kept you know reposting that was like kept you know reposting that was like kept you know reposting and sharing and putting on stories and sharing and putting on stories and sharing and putting on stories um and it kind of like oh this is um and it kind of like oh this is um and it kind of like oh this is popular in this area so Instagram popular in this area so Instagram popular in this area so Instagram started pushing it that way over time started pushing it that way over time started pushing it that way over time you know it's been about three months

you know it's been about three months you know it's been about three months now I have seen I kind of watched it go now I have seen I kind of watched it go now I have seen I kind of watched it go from like India to Africa to from like India to Africa to from like India to Africa to um a little bit a little bit of Western um a little bit a little bit of Western um a little bit a little bit of Western kind of maybe in the United States but kind of maybe in the United States but kind of maybe in the United States but um that's been the the majority of it um that's been the the majority of it um that's been the the majority of it and I want to go back to kind of what a and I want to go back to kind of what a and I want to go back to kind of what a comment that you said just prior to this comment that you said just prior to this comment that you said just prior to this or or or um is was this um is was this um is was this you know Spike that we saw at mosaic was you know Spike that we saw at mosaic was you know Spike that we saw at mosaic was it beneficial for us or not because I it beneficial for us or not because I it beneficial for us or not because I think this is think this is think this is I think people I think people I think people will be surprised about my answer will be surprised about my answer will be surprised about my answer um because I I'm not sure in the early um because I I'm not sure in the early um because I I'm not sure in the early days when we went from 2500 followers to days when we went from 2500 followers to days when we went from 2500 followers to 4 000 followers in a week or so maybe 4 000 followers in a week or so maybe 4 000 followers in a week or so maybe two weeks we were talking about deleting two weeks we were talking about deleting two weeks we were talking about deleting the followers the followers the followers because we were afraid and I'm this is because we were afraid and I'm this is because we were afraid and I'm this is and I still believe this today is that and I still believe this today is that and I still believe this today is that the content that we're creating is you the content that we're creating is you the content that we're creating is you know it's for our people right it's for know it's for our people right it's for know it's for our people right it's for our people in our church it's our people our people in our church it's our people our people in our church it's our people in here in Dubai and the people that in here in Dubai and the people that in here in Dubai and the people that were following us majority were not from were following us majority were not from were following us majority were not from Dubai and I was concerned and I'm still Dubai and I was concerned and I'm still Dubai and I was concerned and I'm still concerned honestly that the content that concerned honestly that the content that concerned honestly that the content that we're creating now is not getting to our we're creating now is not getting to our we're creating now is not getting to our people is going to some of these people people is going to some of these people people is going to some of these people that maybe just followed us out of an that maybe just followed us out of an that maybe just followed us out of an emotional decision and they liked you emotional decision and they liked you emotional decision and they liked you know they liked what we're doing know they liked what we're doing know they liked what we're doing um and I'm not sure that um and I'm not sure that um and I'm not sure that um it's going to have a huge effect um it's going to have a huge effect um it's going to have a huge effect there definitely has some positives you there definitely has some positives you there definitely has some positives you know when I think about the positives it know when I think about the positives it know when I think about the positives it gives us more influence right as a gives us more influence right as a gives us more influence right as a church you know when people see that you church you know when people see that you church you know when people see that you have 16 000 followers well they're they have 16 000 followers well they're they have 16 000 followers well they're they must be influential right they're doing

must be influential right they're doing must be influential right they're doing something right you know and maybe it it something right you know and maybe it it something right you know and maybe it it opens some doors for me and my team that opens some doors for me and my team that opens some doors for me and my team that maybe would not have been open if that maybe would not have been open if that maybe would not have been open if that hadn't happened but when I look as a hadn't happened but when I look as a hadn't happened but when I look as a church church church um is it if I if I had the choice of um is it if I if I had the choice of um is it if I if I had the choice of like you said earlier you said you would like you said earlier you said you would like you said earlier you said you would choose the slow growth method and choose the slow growth method and choose the slow growth method and honestly I feel like that is the most honestly I feel like that is the most honestly I feel like that is the most effective effective effective um but unfortunately we don't get to um but unfortunately we don't get to um but unfortunately we don't get to choose you know if if you're if your choose you know if if you're if your choose you know if if you're if your videos blow up and you get a lot of videos blow up and you get a lot of videos blow up and you get a lot of followers I mean you can keep them where followers I mean you can keep them where followers I mean you can keep them where you can get rid of them you can get rid of them you can get rid of them um and that's a hard decision to get rid um and that's a hard decision to get rid um and that's a hard decision to get rid of a lot of followers of a lot of followers of a lot of followers I think I think I think this was unexpected from this this was unexpected from this this was unexpected from this conversation conversation conversation and you because it's So Glamorous to and you because it's So Glamorous to and you because it's So Glamorous to highlight the extreme growth that's highlight the extreme growth that's highlight the extreme growth that's super fast and and to me I've actually super fast and and to me I've actually super fast and and to me I've actually said this privately to a couple of said this privately to a couple of said this privately to a couple of people that dm'd me about you Pastor people that dm'd me about you Pastor people that dm'd me about you Pastor Jeremy like man I wish I could be my Jeremy like man I wish I could be my Jeremy like man I wish I could be my church and I've always been like I mean church and I've always been like I mean church and I've always been like I mean look it's glamorous look it's glamorous look it's glamorous but and I haven't spoken to Pastor but and I haven't spoken to Pastor but and I haven't spoken to Pastor Jeremy but yet I'm going to it isn't Jeremy but yet I'm going to it isn't Jeremy but yet I'm going to it isn't always like what you want and I really always like what you want and I really always like what you want and I really do want to emphasize again do want to emphasize again do want to emphasize again the fact that I did not know going into the fact that I did not know going into the fact that I did not know going into this conversation people were visiting this conversation people were visiting this conversation people were visiting your church from social when you were your church from social when you were your church from social when you were that kind of newer smaller account why that kind of newer smaller account why that kind of newer smaller account why because you were creating content that because you were creating content that because you were creating content that added value you were creating content added value you were creating content added value you were creating content that invited people and the end goal was that invited people and the end goal was that invited people and the end goal was we want to connect people in person can we want to connect people in person can we want to connect people in person can you maybe like highlight a couple of you maybe like highlight a couple of you maybe like highlight a couple of like stories or just moments that you

like stories or just moments that you like stories or just moments that you know obviously happened because you know know obviously happened because you know know obviously happened because you know people came to your church from social people came to your church from social people came to your church from social kind of pre this you know explosive kind of pre this you know explosive kind of pre this you know explosive growth period in the last 12 months growth period in the last 12 months growth period in the last 12 months there's so many I mean if you if you there's so many I mean if you if you there's so many I mean if you if you just look at the way that our church has just look at the way that our church has just look at the way that our church has grown it would be impossible for our grown it would be impossible for our grown it would be impossible for our church to grow church to grow church to grow um the way that we have without um the way that we have without um the way that we have without um without social because we went from um without social because we went from um without social because we went from 60 to 120 from 120 to 240 again we know 60 to 120 from 120 to 240 again we know 60 to 120 from 120 to 240 again we know the data right data says 60 come from the data right data says 60 come from the data right data says 60 come from came from social media and so I mean came from social media and so I mean came from social media and so I mean there's just stories of life change in there's just stories of life change in there's just stories of life change in our church that um you know we have this our church that um you know we have this our church that um you know we have this girl named Maddie who's a she was a girl named Maddie who's a she was a girl named Maddie who's a she was a Romanian gymnast back in the day and she Romanian gymnast back in the day and she Romanian gymnast back in the day and she came to our church came to our church came to our church um and you know we did our 20-minute um and you know we did our 20-minute um and you know we did our 20-minute sermon we broke up into groups and we sermon we broke up into groups and we sermon we broke up into groups and we had we talked about real life and she had we talked about real life and she had we talked about real life and she was just like wow this is they're was just like wow this is they're was just like wow this is they're they're not they're not faking it right they're not they're not faking it right they're not they're not faking it right they're not faking Christianity and they're not faking Christianity and they're not faking Christianity and she's not a Christian she didn't grow up she's not a Christian she didn't grow up she's not a Christian she didn't grow up grew up uh really in church and then grew up uh really in church and then grew up uh really in church and then after the service she kind of hung up by after the service she kind of hung up by after the service she kind of hung up by herself over on the side and then we herself over on the side and then we herself over on the side and then we started going up there people started started going up there people started started going up there people started going after and talking to her and just going after and talking to her and just going after and talking to her and just making her feel like hey what's your making her feel like hey what's your making her feel like hey what's your name what's your story just trying to name what's your story just trying to name what's your story just trying to genuinely caring for her the next day genuinely caring for her the next day genuinely caring for her the next day she came next week she came back and um she came next week she came back and um she came next week she came back and um she was we did prayer groups you know she was we did prayer groups you know she was we did prayer groups you know and and then the prayer group she shared and and then the prayer group she shared and and then the prayer group she shared some things that had gone wrong in her some things that had gone wrong in her some things that had gone wrong in her life in the past and you know she cried life in the past and you know she cried life in the past and you know she cried during that time and I asked her at the during that time and I asked her at the during that time and I asked her at the end I said like Maddie why did you come end I said like Maddie why did you come end I said like Maddie why did you come back to our church and she goes honestly back to our church and she goes honestly back to our church and she goes honestly it was it was it was because that you

it was it was it was because that you it was it was it was because that you know she told me that same story that I know she told me that same story that I know she told me that same story that I told you I went off by myself people told you I went off by myself people told you I went off by myself people showed care for me people loved me they showed care for me people loved me they showed care for me people loved me they really wanted they felt like they really wanted they felt like they really wanted they felt like they genuinely wanted to know me but you see genuinely wanted to know me but you see genuinely wanted to know me but you see that story never would have happened that story never would have happened that story never would have happened without social without social without social um and so it's just a there's there's um and so it's just a there's there's um and so it's just a there's there's countless of those stories of of just countless of those stories of of just countless of those stories of of just people coming for one reason or the people coming for one reason or the people coming for one reason or the other but then you know when they show other but then you know when they show other but then you know when they show up to the in-person event you know it's up to the in-person event you know it's up to the in-person event you know it's then it's it's not just about social at then it's it's not just about social at then it's it's not just about social at that point now now they're there now you that point now now they're there now you that point now now they're there now you have to have another strategy to keep have to have another strategy to keep have to have another strategy to keep them and to take care of them that them and to take care of them that them and to take care of them that that's what I want to emphasize here for that's what I want to emphasize here for that's what I want to emphasize here for everyone listening and that is social is everyone listening and that is social is everyone listening and that is social is amazing at increasing your reach and amazing at increasing your reach and amazing at increasing your reach and connecting you to new people connecting you to new people connecting you to new people if and when that translates to in person if and when that translates to in person if and when that translates to in person if your church then is not able to care if your church then is not able to care if your church then is not able to care for them meet them where they are and for them meet them where they are and for them meet them where they are and bring them closer to Jesus bring them closer to Jesus bring them closer to Jesus I I I I I I these strategies that we teach you work these strategies that we teach you work these strategies that we teach you work directly with us you do it yourself the directly with us you do it yourself the directly with us you do it yourself the way that impressively mosaic has way that impressively mosaic has way that impressively mosaic has it won't matter because once I visit you it won't matter because once I visit you it won't matter because once I visit you in person in person in person it's going to be a dud right it's going it's going to be a dud right it's going it's going to be a dud right it's going to flop and that's what Pastor Jeremy to flop and that's what Pastor Jeremy to flop and that's what Pastor Jeremy just said like hey it requires a new just said like hey it requires a new just said like hey it requires a new strategy once we got people there I want strategy once we got people there I want strategy once we got people there I want to talk about your team Jeremy because to talk about your team Jeremy because to talk about your team Jeremy because people ask all the time okay I'm a people ask all the time okay I'm a people ask all the time okay I'm a pastor I can't do this myself maybe even pastor I can't do this myself maybe even pastor I can't do this myself maybe even I want to maybe I have some aptitude for I want to maybe I have some aptitude for I want to maybe I have some aptitude for it I have greater responsibilities or I it I have greater responsibilities or I it I have greater responsibilities or I have other responsibilities have other responsibilities have other responsibilities how did you go about identifying these how did you go about identifying these how did you go about identifying these four individuals four individuals four individuals it did like I think a lot of churches

it did like I think a lot of churches it did like I think a lot of churches feel like there's just no one in my in feel like there's just no one in my in feel like there's just no one in my in my congregation that could help with my congregation that could help with my congregation that could help with this this this yeah yeah yeah um great question um great question um great question um I don't know I think one of the um I don't know I think one of the um I don't know I think one of the things that I'm I'm blessed with is things that I'm I'm blessed with is things that I'm I'm blessed with is being able to identify talent and then being able to identify talent and then being able to identify talent and then investing in those people and truly not investing in those people and truly not investing in those people and truly not not investing in the sense of that like not investing in the sense of that like not investing in the sense of that like I'm I'm trying just trying to get I'm I'm trying just trying to get I'm I'm trying just trying to get something from you I generally do care something from you I generally do care something from you I generally do care about these people and I and I want about these people and I and I want about these people and I and I want what's best for them and I I I can I'm what's best for them and I I I can I'm what's best for them and I I I can I'm able to identify that Talent able to identify that Talent able to identify that Talent um and then you know as a small Church um and then you know as a small Church um and then you know as a small Church Pastor Pastor Pastor I would say work with what work with I would say work with what work with I would say work with what work with what you got in the church you know it what you got in the church you know it what you got in the church you know it may not it may not be exactly what you may not it may not be exactly what you may not it may not be exactly what you want but God's put that person in your want but God's put that person in your want but God's put that person in your church for a reason and church for a reason and church for a reason and that you should you should find that that you should you should find that that you should you should find that person within your church and it may not person within your church and it may not person within your church and it may not be exactly what you want but guess what be exactly what you want but guess what be exactly what you want but guess what maybe the time after that person or the maybe the time after that person or the maybe the time after that person or the person after that somebody's going to person after that somebody's going to person after that somebody's going to come along in your church eventually come along in your church eventually come along in your church eventually that's going to do amazing things like that's going to do amazing things like that's going to do amazing things like like Sam our videographer like Sam our videographer like Sam our videographer Sam Sam Sam um is a videographer from Rwanda you um is a videographer from Rwanda you um is a videographer from Rwanda you know a quite a poor country in Africa know a quite a poor country in Africa know a quite a poor country in Africa like he messaged me him and his friend like he messaged me him and his friend like he messaged me him and his friend messaged me who are both videographers messaged me who are both videographers messaged me who are both videographers from Rwanda and said hey we're moving to from Rwanda and said hey we're moving to from Rwanda and said hey we're moving to Dubai we want to come to your church and Dubai we want to come to your church and Dubai we want to come to your church and we want to we want to get involved now we want to we want to get involved now we want to we want to get involved now Sam is on staff at mosaic that only Sam is on staff at mosaic that only Sam is on staff at mosaic that only happened because we had good social

happened because we had good social happened because we had good social media prior to this right good social media prior to this right good social media prior to this right good social media allowed better people to come media allowed better people to come media allowed better people to come along so I would say to pastors out along so I would say to pastors out along so I would say to pastors out there who are struggling right now there who are struggling right now there who are struggling right now use who you have it may not be what you use who you have it may not be what you use who you have it may not be what you want right now but keep keep getting want right now but keep keep getting want right now but keep keep getting better get better every single day get better get better every single day get better get better every single day get better every single week and eventually better every single week and eventually better every single week and eventually you're going to have the right people in you're going to have the right people in you're going to have the right people in in the right places and that's that's in the right places and that's that's in the right places and that's that's honestly what happened to us honestly what happened to us honestly what happened to us and that's my story right like and that's my story right like and that's my story right like a pastor just like Jeremy here saw a pastor just like Jeremy here saw a pastor just like Jeremy here saw something in me call it like Talent something in me call it like Talent something in me call it like Talent evaluation at my point it wasn't Talent evaluation at my point it wasn't Talent evaluation at my point it wasn't Talent evaluation it was just potential evaluation it was just potential evaluation it was just potential evaluation and they gave me evaluation and they gave me evaluation and they gave me responsibilities which then gave me responsibilities which then gave me responsibilities which then gave me ownership which gave me this burden to ownership which gave me this burden to ownership which gave me this burden to do well and to prove that the trust they do well and to prove that the trust they do well and to prove that the trust they had put into me was trust that I would had put into me was trust that I would had put into me was trust that I would repay back repay back repay back and and so that Talent might not even be and and so that Talent might not even be and and so that Talent might not even be there the great thing with younger folks there the great thing with younger folks there the great thing with younger folks today is that they have a lot of skills today is that they have a lot of skills today is that they have a lot of skills already with digital media and frankly already with digital media and frankly already with digital media and frankly that's what they had seen to me I was that's what they had seen to me I was that's what they had seen to me I was like oh yeah one time I had this this like oh yeah one time I had this this like oh yeah one time I had this this French class because we're Canadian and French class because we're Canadian and French class because we're Canadian and and we had a green screen and so I and we had a green screen and so I and we had a green screen and so I chroma keyed it using Sony Vegas look chroma keyed it using Sony Vegas look chroma keyed it using Sony Vegas look the video was trash but there was like the video was trash but there was like the video was trash but there was like something there that they could go okay something there that they could go okay something there that they could go okay well he has some type of aptitude some well he has some type of aptitude some well he has some type of aptitude some type of like familiarity type of like familiarity type of like familiarity curious Jeremy you have these four curious Jeremy you have these four curious Jeremy you have these four individuals and they are getting paid so individuals and they are getting paid so individuals and they are getting paid so they're not volunteers were they uh and they're not volunteers were they uh and they're not volunteers were they uh and you know for a small church I mean at you know for a small church I mean at you know for a small church I mean at least with you as well that's five staff least with you as well that's five staff least with you as well that's five staff which I feel like is more than the which I feel like is more than the which I feel like is more than the average Church of your size and

average Church of your size and average Church of your size and presumably there are other paid staff presumably there are other paid staff presumably there are other paid staff that are not just in in Social like were that are not just in in Social like were that are not just in in Social like were they hired after other roles how did you they hired after other roles how did you they hired after other roles how did you kind of come to grips with leading to kind of come to grips with leading to kind of come to grips with leading to compensate these folks and not just go compensate these folks and not just go compensate these folks and not just go with a volunteer team with a volunteer team with a volunteer team yeah no we do have a larger staff than I yeah no we do have a larger staff than I yeah no we do have a larger staff than I mean all of these are part-time uh mean all of these are part-time uh mean all of these are part-time uh people and so that is one thing that I people and so that is one thing that I people and so that is one thing that I would suggest is is would suggest is is would suggest is is find part-time people to help you that I find part-time people to help you that I find part-time people to help you that I mean that part-time people provide mean that part-time people provide mean that part-time people provide quality and they they provide quality and they they provide quality and they they provide consistency right and part-time doesn't consistency right and part-time doesn't consistency right and part-time doesn't mean you have to pay them a ton of money mean you have to pay them a ton of money mean you have to pay them a ton of money it could be a small amount of money it could be a small amount of money it could be a small amount of money right but you're still getting that right but you're still getting that right but you're still getting that consistency you're getting that that consistency you're getting that that consistency you're getting that that quality quality quality um these these people um these these people um these these people um were most of them were on staff um were most of them were on staff um were most of them were on staff doing other roles doing other roles doing other roles um or doing you know doing roles for um or doing you know doing roles for um or doing you know doing roles for years honestly before they went into years honestly before they went into years honestly before they went into social media social media social media um um um Sam our videographer we were able to get Sam our videographer we were able to get Sam our videographer we were able to get um um um he started as a volunteer and eventually he started as a volunteer and eventually he started as a volunteer and eventually went into a paid role okay because that went into a paid role okay because that went into a paid role okay because that kind of works with like church budget kind of works with like church budget kind of works with like church budget right you have a certain budget for the right you have a certain budget for the right you have a certain budget for the year right and then you're like Sam I year right and then you're like Sam I year right and then you're like Sam I want to hire you I really don't please want to hire you I really don't please want to hire you I really don't please don't leave please don't leave Sam don't leave please don't leave Sam don't leave please don't leave Sam please don't leave it's like I can't pay please don't leave it's like I can't pay please don't leave it's like I can't pay you yet but I I promise you Sam you keep you yet but I I promise you Sam you keep you yet but I I promise you Sam you keep going and I'm gonna pay you going and I'm gonna pay you going and I'm gonna pay you um we you're making a difference in our um we you're making a difference in our um we you're making a difference in our church and so I mean that's kind of how church and so I mean that's kind of how church and so I mean that's kind of how it worked for us is it worked for us is it worked for us is um these all had at least all of these um these all had at least all of these um these all had at least all of these people had multiple roles in church for people had multiple roles in church for people had multiple roles in church for years before they went into social media

years before they went into social media years before they went into social media I've been trying to internalize I've been trying to internalize I've been trying to internalize everything that you've been saying everything that you've been saying everything that you've been saying throughout this conversation Jeremy and throughout this conversation Jeremy and throughout this conversation Jeremy and I have kind of like these three things I have kind of like these three things I have kind of like these three things that I wrote down that I think that I wrote down that I think that I wrote down that I think illustrative through Mosaic story are illustrative through Mosaic story are illustrative through Mosaic story are applicable to everyone listening and the applicable to everyone listening and the applicable to everyone listening and the first one was how you implemented change first one was how you implemented change first one was how you implemented change in your church it's so common for us to in your church it's so common for us to in your church it's so common for us to talk about new church models and talk talk about new church models and talk talk about new church models and talk about like you know we need to do Church about like you know we need to do Church about like you know we need to do Church differently why is there only this differently why is there only this differently why is there only this singular expression of church and what singular expression of church and what singular expression of church and what typically happens is we get so far ahead typically happens is we get so far ahead typically happens is we get so far ahead of ourselves that the church that we're of ourselves that the church that we're of ourselves that the church that we're kind of projecting and even prophesying kind of projecting and even prophesying kind of projecting and even prophesying is so different from the church that is so different from the church that is so different from the church that we're now aware of and and familiar with we're now aware of and and familiar with we're now aware of and and familiar with and we've done our whole lives that and we've done our whole lives that and we've done our whole lives that there's no way to bridge the gap between there's no way to bridge the gap between there's no way to bridge the gap between the two and what I think is so profound the two and what I think is so profound the two and what I think is so profound about what you describe doing in your about what you describe doing in your about what you describe doing in your church not just talking about it but church not just talking about it but church not just talking about it but doing it is that there was this overlap doing it is that there was this overlap doing it is that there was this overlap between what people were familiar with between what people were familiar with between what people were familiar with and what you were now saying this is how and what you were now saying this is how and what you were now saying this is how we're going to do things so it wasn't we're going to do things so it wasn't we're going to do things so it wasn't like you you threw out the message and like you you threw out the message and like you you threw out the message and said okay we're just going to get this said okay we're just going to get this said okay we're just going to get this long table and we're gonna have potluck long table and we're gonna have potluck long table and we're gonna have potluck only which sounds Divine but again you only which sounds Divine but again you only which sounds Divine but again you know there's that old leadership saying know there's that old leadership saying know there's that old leadership saying one step ahead you're a leader two steps one step ahead you're a leader two steps one step ahead you're a leader two steps ahead you're a martyr you were like no ahead you're a martyr you were like no ahead you're a martyr you were like no we're gonna still do the sermon instead we're gonna still do the sermon instead we're gonna still do the sermon instead of 40 minutes it's gonna be 20 and then of 40 minutes it's gonna be 20 and then of 40 minutes it's gonna be 20 and then we're going to use this other 20 minutes we're going to use this other 20 minutes we're going to use this other 20 minutes to explore other things and this is not to explore other things and this is not to explore other things and this is not just I think applicable to church but just I think applicable to church but just I think applicable to church but all behavioral change is done this way all behavioral change is done this way all behavioral change is done this way you take where you are your comfort you take where you are your comfort you take where you are your comfort level and you don't jump to a brand new level and you don't jump to a brand new level and you don't jump to a brand new Comfort level you just push your comfort Comfort level you just push your comfort Comfort level you just push your comfort level forward enough that you can like level forward enough that you can like level forward enough that you can like actually manage that change and then six

actually manage that change and then six actually manage that change and then six months later you do it again and six months later you do it again and six months later you do it again and six months later you do it again and now you months later you do it again and now you months later you do it again and now you look back two three years later your look back two three years later your look back two three years later your church is 4X its size it's so different church is 4X its size it's so different church is 4X its size it's so different why not because you went all out and why not because you went all out and why not because you went all out and made all those changes all at once but made all those changes all at once but made all those changes all at once but you went Bit by Bit by Bit would you say you went Bit by Bit by Bit would you say you went Bit by Bit by Bit would you say that's an accurate assessment yeah that's an accurate assessment yeah that's an accurate assessment yeah that's that's what Andy Andy Stanley that's that's what Andy Andy Stanley that's that's what Andy Andy Stanley calls uniquely better it's still you calls uniquely better it's still you calls uniquely better it's still you know in this example it's still old know in this example it's still old know in this example it's still old church but it's just uniquely better church but it's just uniquely better church but it's just uniquely better than what you were doing before than what you were doing before than what you were doing before um so yeah I I believe that's that's um so yeah I I believe that's that's um so yeah I I believe that's that's exactly what we've done or what we've exactly what we've done or what we've exactly what we've done or what we've tried to do tried to do tried to do okay first takeaway second takeaway was okay first takeaway second takeaway was okay first takeaway second takeaway was in person and online are different this in person and online are different this in person and online are different this is one of the first things that you said is one of the first things that you said is one of the first things that you said in our conversation I am always trying in our conversation I am always trying in our conversation I am always trying to emphasize this emphasize this with to emphasize this emphasize this with to emphasize this emphasize this with churches is that online is good at churches is that online is good at churches is that online is good at things offline is good at things the things offline is good at things the things offline is good at things the problem is that we're always trying to problem is that we're always trying to problem is that we're always trying to make online offline and we're trying to make online offline and we're trying to make online offline and we're trying to make offline online if we could just use make offline online if we could just use make offline online if we could just use them for what they're each uniquely them for what they're each uniquely them for what they're each uniquely awesome at we could have these two awesome at we could have these two awesome at we could have these two things working together kind of each things working together kind of each things working together kind of each singing a different part of the harmony singing a different part of the harmony singing a different part of the harmony instead they're both trying to sing the instead they're both trying to sing the instead they're both trying to sing the melody we're not creating anything melody we're not creating anything melody we're not creating anything that's special and new we're just doing that's special and new we're just doing that's special and new we're just doing the same thing on the other platforms the same thing on the other platforms the same thing on the other platforms and we're not making any progress and we're not making any progress and we're not making any progress that is so true I ask people all the that is so true I ask people all the that is so true I ask people all the time I tell I I ask them for people that time I tell I I ask them for people that time I tell I I ask them for people that do online church so so for our in our do online church so so for our in our do online church so so for our in our case we don't do we don't stream our case we don't do we don't stream our case we don't do we don't stream our services we do we we will put ourselves services we do we we will put ourselves services we do we we will put ourselves I knew I liked you I knew I liked you I knew I liked you I knew I liked you I knew I liked you I knew I liked you Pastor Jeremy I didn't even know he was Pastor Jeremy I didn't even know he was Pastor Jeremy I didn't even know he was doing different Church things I was just doing different Church things I was just doing different Church things I was just like look he's doing everything great on like look he's doing everything great on like look he's doing everything great on social we've been smiling at each other social we've been smiling at each other social we've been smiling at each other you can't you can't see Alex right now

you can't you can't see Alex right now you can't you can't see Alex right now Jeremy we've been smiling each other Jeremy we've been smiling each other Jeremy we've been smiling each other this whole time this guy he's this is this whole time this guy he's this is this whole time this guy he's this is our kind of people yeah yeah so like we our kind of people yeah yeah so like we our kind of people yeah yeah so like we don't we don't we don't do our services don't we don't we don't do our services don't we don't we don't do our services on we don't stream our services online on we don't stream our services online on we don't stream our services online well video our our sermons we'll put our well video our our sermons we'll put our well video our our sermons we'll put our sermons online sermons online sermons online um but I ask people all the time I I um but I ask people all the time I I um but I ask people all the time I I that are you know especially during the that are you know especially during the that are you know especially during the pandemic I would I would ask them when pandemic I would I would ask them when pandemic I would I would ask them when is the last time that you watched an is the last time that you watched an is the last time that you watched an hour-long YouTube video hour-long YouTube video hour-long YouTube video I know the answer is oh every single I know the answer is oh every single I know the answer is oh every single time it was I don't never I don't watch time it was I don't never I don't watch time it was I don't never I don't watch an hour-long YouTube video and then I an hour-long YouTube video and then I an hour-long YouTube video and then I well I said well then why do you put an well I said well then why do you put an well I said well then why do you put an hour to an hour and a half long sermon hour to an hour and a half long sermon hour to an hour and a half long sermon or service online that's not how the or service online that's not how the or service online that's not how the internet is made that's not that's not internet is made that's not that's not internet is made that's not that's not what people are looking for online what people are looking for online what people are looking for online they're created differently like just they're created differently like just they're created differently like just like you said I give the example of you like you said I give the example of you like you said I give the example of you know I I would love to go to you know a know I I would love to go to you know a know I I would love to go to you know a um let's just say a hockey game I'd love um let's just say a hockey game I'd love um let's just say a hockey game I'd love to go to a hockey game in person and you to go to a hockey game in person and you to go to a hockey game in person and you know get the get the you know the big know get the get the you know the big know get the get the you know the big drink and the the nachos and and feel drink and the the nachos and and feel drink and the the nachos and and feel like the Thunder and feel like the you like the Thunder and feel like the you like the Thunder and feel like the you know the excitement that's in here it know the excitement that's in here it know the excitement that's in here it creates a feeling right but when I watch creates a feeling right but when I watch creates a feeling right but when I watch that same hockey uh hockey game online I that same hockey uh hockey game online I that same hockey uh hockey game online I want to watch the eight minute highlight want to watch the eight minute highlight want to watch the eight minute highlight video it's because in person and online video it's because in person and online video it's because in person and online are created differently and just like are created differently and just like are created differently and just like you said churches are trying to take you said churches are trying to take you said churches are trying to take what we do in person and force it into what we do in person and force it into what we do in person and force it into online and that's just it's not it's not online and that's just it's not it's not online and that's just it's not it's not going to be successful it's just not

going to be successful it's just not going to be successful it's just not and then final thing we said this a and then final thing we said this a and then final thing we said this a couple times couple times couple times small Church small account small Church small account small Church small account making a difference before the making a difference before the making a difference before the collaboration with collaboration with collaboration with um this other Pastor by the way was that um this other Pastor by the way was that um this other Pastor by the way was that a collab post do you remember no it no a collab post do you remember no it no a collab post do you remember no it no you cannot on his particular post you you cannot on his particular post you you cannot on his particular post you you could not collab with him so it you could not collab with him so it you could not collab with him so it wasn't even a collab post that's a good wasn't even a collab post that's a good wasn't even a collab post that's a good distinction because I'm sure people were distinction because I'm sure people were distinction because I'm sure people were curious if that we had a lot of curious if that we had a lot of curious if that we had a lot of questions about collab posts questions about collab posts questions about collab posts um before all that happened just using um before all that happened just using um before all that happened just using social delivering value and that was social delivering value and that was social delivering value and that was translating to people finding Mosaic to translating to people finding Mosaic to translating to people finding Mosaic to buy in person we want as many people to buy in person we want as many people to buy in person we want as many people to find you online as well uh one of the find you online as well uh one of the find you online as well uh one of the questions we get all the time is like questions we get all the time is like questions we get all the time is like who should I follow online as a church who should I follow online as a church who should I follow online as a church and people are you know oh yeah we know and people are you know oh yeah we know and people are you know oh yeah we know all the highly visible highly affluent all the highly visible highly affluent all the highly visible highly affluent churches but like that has nothing to do churches but like that has nothing to do churches but like that has nothing to do with the typical everyday Church Mosaic with the typical everyday Church Mosaic with the typical everyday Church Mosaic does so where can people find you and does so where can people find you and does so where can people find you and follow you online or should we not follow you online or should we not follow you online or should we not follow you online because we don't want follow you online because we don't want follow you online because we don't want to dilute we can't find them in person to dilute we can't find them in person to dilute we can't find them in person you DM the address you want to find the you DM the address you want to find the you DM the address you want to find the handle you got a DM for the handle yeah handle you got a DM for the handle yeah handle you got a DM for the handle yeah oh I tell you that's a great question oh I tell you that's a great question oh I tell you that's a great question it's kind of like do I follow him and it's kind of like do I follow him and it's kind of like do I follow him and then get the chance of maybe him then get the chance of maybe him then get the chance of maybe him unfollowing me later on you know um so you can find us Mosaic Dubai on um so you can find us Mosaic Dubai on social media on Instagram Tick Tock social media on Instagram Tick Tock social media on Instagram Tick Tock everything everything everything um and um mosaicdubai.org is our website um and um mosaicdubai.org is our website um and um mosaicdubai.org is our website and um yeah that's where you can find it and um yeah that's where you can find it and um yeah that's where you can find it so you can DM me send me a DM on Mosaic so you can DM me send me a DM on Mosaic so you can DM me send me a DM on Mosaic Dubai that's where you can find me uh Dubai that's where you can find me uh Dubai that's where you can find me uh I'd love to have a conversation with you

I'd love to have a conversation with you I'd love to have a conversation with you we don't do interviews too often Jeremy we don't do interviews too often Jeremy we don't do interviews too often Jeremy this was kind of like a one-off maybe this was kind of like a one-off maybe this was kind of like a one-off maybe we'll do them more if folks are we'll do them more if folks are we'll do them more if folks are responding well to them wanted to responding well to them wanted to responding well to them wanted to finally ask you a question maybe help uh finally ask you a question maybe help uh finally ask you a question maybe help uh settle a debate between Alex and I oh settle a debate between Alex and I oh settle a debate between Alex and I oh geez so kid is like pushing into the geez so kid is like pushing into the geez so kid is like pushing into the interview interview interview yeah yeah get out of here oh this is yeah yeah get out of here oh this is yeah yeah get out of here oh this is perfect this is unreal we went so long perfect this is unreal we went so long perfect this is unreal we went so long the kids are coming in the kids are coming in the kids are coming in this is that they'll take the final this is that they'll take the final this is that they'll take the final question Pastor Jeremy if you are a question Pastor Jeremy if you are a question Pastor Jeremy if you are a person that consumes an audiobook person that consumes an audiobook person that consumes an audiobook have you read that book can you say I have you read that book can you say I have you read that book can you say I read this book read this book read this book no I have I have not read the book I no I have I have not read the book I no I have I have not read the book I just consumed it uh by Audio yeah that's just consumed it uh by Audio yeah that's just consumed it uh by Audio yeah that's just you listen to it yep Pastor Jeremy just you listen to it yep Pastor Jeremy just you listen to it yep Pastor Jeremy I I said I liked you clear we almost I I said I liked you clear we almost I I said I liked you clear we almost made it but uh kind of went off the road made it but uh kind of went off the road made it but uh kind of went off the road off the rails there uh thank you for off the rails there uh thank you for off the rails there uh thank you for joining us so much and thanks as always joining us so much and thanks as always joining us so much and thanks as always for your time attention and trust for your time attention and trust for your time attention and trust everyone we'll talk to you next week