5 Small Changes Most Churches Should Consider Making

Small changes can make a big difference. Small changes can make a big difference. So, today we're unpacking five small So, today we're unpacking five small So, today we're unpacking five small changes that we think most churches changes that we think most churches changes that we think most churches should consider. To be clear, these should consider. To be clear, these should consider. To be clear, these changes are not our ideas. They come changes are not our ideas. They come changes are not our ideas. They come from a [music] senior pastor who has from a [music] senior pastor who has from a [music] senior pastor who has implemented them himself and seen the implemented them himself and seen the implemented them himself and seen the fruit. And the great thing about small fruit. And the great thing about small fruit. And the great thing about small changes is that you don't need to changes is that you don't need to changes is that you don't need to overhaul anything. You can apply these overhaul anything. You can apply these overhaul anything. You can apply these changes this weekend. Let's dive in. changes this weekend. Let's dive in. changes this weekend. Let's dive in. [music] [music] [music] >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. It's Alexander always by my co-host. It's Alexander always by my co-host. It's Alexander Mills. Mills. Mills. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> We're also joined by a guest today, >> We're also joined by a guest today, >> We're also joined by a guest today, Pastor Luke Simmons of Ironwood Church Pastor Luke Simmons of Ironwood Church Pastor Luke Simmons of Ironwood Church in Queen Creek, aka Phoenix, Arizona. in Queen Creek, aka Phoenix, Arizona. in Queen Creek, aka Phoenix, Arizona. Luke, welcome to the show. Luke, welcome to the show. Luke, welcome to the show. >> Hey guys, it's great to be here. >> Hey guys, it's great to be here. >> Hey guys, it's great to be here. >> Great to have you. We were just >> Great to have you. We were just >> Great to have you. We were just remarking about how in Phoenix, at least remarking about how in Phoenix, at least remarking about how in Phoenix, at least in our experience, a couple times that in our experience, a couple times that in our experience, a couple times that we've been there, but also the fact that we've been there, but also the fact that we've been there, but also the fact that your Twitter bio says you are from Queen your Twitter bio says you are from Queen your Twitter bio says you are from Queen Creek, Arizona. We've noticed that the Creek, Arizona. We've noticed that the Creek, Arizona. We've noticed that the people in Phoenix don't say we're from people in Phoenix don't say we're from people in Phoenix don't say we're from Phoenix. It's I'm from Gilbert. I'm from Phoenix. It's I'm from Gilbert. I'm from Phoenix. It's I'm from Gilbert. I'm from Scottsdale. I'm from Queen Creek. But uh Scottsdale. I'm from Queen Creek. But uh Scottsdale. I'm from Queen Creek. But uh when we asked Pastor Luke about this, he when we asked Pastor Luke about this, he when we asked Pastor Luke about this, he had nothing for us. [laughter] had nothing for us. [laughter] had nothing for us. [laughter] >> You know, maybe that's because no one's >> You know, maybe that's because no one's >> You know, maybe that's because no one's actually from Phoenix. Everyone's from actually from Phoenix. Everyone's from actually from Phoenix. Everyone's from somewhere else. You know, the joke is somewhere else. You know, the joke is somewhere else. You know, the joke is that the, you know, Arizona Cardinals that the, you know, Arizona Cardinals that the, you know, Arizona Cardinals are everyone's second favorite football are everyone's second favorite football are everyone's second favorite football team. So, team. So, team. So, >> you know, they root for wherever they're >> you know, they root for wherever they're >> you know, they root for wherever they're actually from.

actually from. actually from. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> Well, why would you want to root for the >> Well, why would you want to root for the >> Well, why would you want to root for the Cardinals anyway? [laughter] So, fair Cardinals anyway? [laughter] So, fair Cardinals anyway? [laughter] So, fair enough. Uh Luke, we we're excited to enough. Uh Luke, we we're excited to enough. Uh Luke, we we're excited to have you on the show because my have you on the show because my have you on the show because my perspective of you through our perspective of you through our perspective of you through our interaction online is that you are the interaction online is that you are the interaction online is that you are the pastor of a church who excels in the pastor of a church who excels in the pastor of a church who excels in the world of digital ministry. Typically, world of digital ministry. Typically, world of digital ministry. Typically, what we see is pastors who are curious what we see is pastors who are curious what we see is pastors who are curious of that world. They have a passion for of that world. They have a passion for of that world. They have a passion for it. They see the value in it, but they it. They see the value in it, but they it. They see the value in it, but they wouldn't consider themselves wouldn't consider themselves wouldn't consider themselves exceptionally skilled in it. Um they exceptionally skilled in it. Um they exceptionally skilled in it. Um they wouldn't ever think of themselves as a wouldn't ever think of themselves as a wouldn't ever think of themselves as a thought leader in that space, but I thought leader in that space, but I thought leader in that space, but I would put you in that category. Can you would put you in that category. Can you would put you in that category. Can you tell us just a little bit about yourself tell us just a little bit about yourself tell us just a little bit about yourself and your church and provide some and your church and provide some and your church and provide some foundation before we kind of like dive foundation before we kind of like dive foundation before we kind of like dive into the subject matter? into the subject matter? into the subject matter? >> Yeah, that's very kind of you. I mean, I >> Yeah, that's very kind of you. I mean, I >> Yeah, that's very kind of you. I mean, I I don't know that I would call myself an I don't know that I would call myself an I don't know that I would call myself an expert either. I just think uh so many expert either. I just think uh so many expert either. I just think uh so many pastors are so far behind on it that a pastors are so far behind on it that a pastors are so far behind on it that a little goes a long way. So, um but yeah, little goes a long way. So, um but yeah, little goes a long way. So, um but yeah, I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, and have been here in uh Phoenix for and have been here in uh Phoenix for and have been here in uh Phoenix for [snorts] the last 20 or so years and uh [snorts] the last 20 or so years and uh [snorts] the last 20 or so years and uh pastoring a church called Ironwood pastoring a church called Ironwood pastoring a church called Ironwood Church that I I planted with a group of Church that I I planted with a group of Church that I I planted with a group of people about 17 years ago. So, um, we've people about 17 years ago. So, um, we've people about 17 years ago. So, um, we've been here in the southeast part of the been here in the southeast part of the been here in the southeast part of the Phoenix metro area, fast growing area, Phoenix metro area, fast growing area, Phoenix metro area, fast growing area, um, and just have seen God do a lot of um, and just have seen God do a lot of um, and just have seen God do a lot of really cool things, uh, through it. I really cool things, uh, through it. I really cool things, uh, through it. I think some of what has drawn me to the think some of what has drawn me to the think some of what has drawn me to the stuff you guys do is my background, uh, stuff you guys do is my background, uh, stuff you guys do is my background, uh, you know, in college was I was a you know, in college was I was a you know, in college was I was a communications major. So, I'm just communications major. So, I'm just communications major. So, I'm just always intuitively thinking through always intuitively thinking through always intuitively thinking through communication and how does this actually communication and how does this actually communication and how does this actually make sense to people? I really love when make sense to people? I really love when make sense to people? I really love when ministry makes sense. I just I'm always ministry makes sense. I just I'm always ministry makes sense. I just I'm always kind of going if we can just make stuff kind of going if we can just make stuff kind of going if we can just make stuff make sense to people I think it's easier

make sense to people I think it's easier make sense to people I think it's easier for them to engage with it and for them to engage with it and for them to engage with it and participate in it. And so I think that's participate in it. And so I think that's participate in it. And so I think that's some of what's drawn me to a lot of the some of what's drawn me to a lot of the some of what's drawn me to a lot of the content you guys put out. Um but also content you guys put out. Um but also content you guys put out. Um but also has made me go well as there is this has made me go well as there is this has made me go well as there is this like you say this big communication like you say this big communication like you say this big communication shift that's happening in the world like shift that's happening in the world like shift that's happening in the world like let's be part of that and let's leverage let's be part of that and let's leverage let's be part of that and let's leverage those other 167 hours and let's connect those other 167 hours and let's connect those other 167 hours and let's connect with people where they really are. Um, with people where they really are. Um, with people where they really are. Um, and a little bit goes a long way and a little bit goes a long way and a little bit goes a long way >> to that big idea of ministry making >> to that big idea of ministry making >> to that big idea of ministry making sense. One of my favorite threads from sense. One of my favorite threads from sense. One of my favorite threads from you on Twitter X and and by the way, one you on Twitter X and and by the way, one you on Twitter X and and by the way, one of the best follows that I have on of the best follows that I have on of the best follows that I have on Twitter X. Twitter X. Twitter X. >> Um, track Luke down. We will put that in >> Um, track Luke down. We will put that in >> Um, track Luke down. We will put that in the show notes. the show notes. the show notes. >> You had a thread about five small >> You had a thread about five small >> You had a thread about five small changes that most churches should changes that most churches should changes that most churches should consider making. And the the reason I consider making. And the the reason I consider making. And the the reason I was drawn to it was because the very was drawn to it was because the very was drawn to it was because the very first item on that was about church first item on that was about church first item on that was about church announcements. Now, I have a rule that I announcements. Now, I have a rule that I announcements. Now, I have a rule that I try to enforce with churches, which is try to enforce with churches, which is try to enforce with churches, which is don't have any more than three don't have any more than three don't have any more than three announcements from stage in a weekend announcements from stage in a weekend announcements from stage in a weekend service. And I get so much push back on service. And I get so much push back on service. And I get so much push back on that. And we have entire diagrams and that. And we have entire diagrams and that. And we have entire diagrams and spreadsheets and workflows and formulas spreadsheets and workflows and formulas spreadsheets and workflows and formulas to basically like allow churches to to basically like allow churches to to basically like allow churches to distill their hundreds of events down to distill their hundreds of events down to distill their hundreds of events down to a place where they can realistically a place where they can realistically a place where they can realistically say, "Okay, only these three this say, "Okay, only these three this say, "Okay, only these three this weekend will get a stage announcement weekend will get a stage announcement weekend will get a stage announcement based on all of these parameters." and based on all of these parameters." and based on all of these parameters." and cross referencing is very complex.

cross referencing is very complex. cross referencing is very complex. The first item in this Twitter thread The first item in this Twitter thread The first item in this Twitter thread from you is guess what? One announcement from you is guess what? One announcement from you is guess what? One announcement only. [laughter] only. [laughter] only. [laughter] And I feel like I have credence here And I feel like I have credence here And I feel like I have credence here because it's a lead pastor who's saying because it's a lead pastor who's saying because it's a lead pastor who's saying this. So, uh, good luck, Luke, but I'm this. So, uh, good luck, Luke, but I'm this. So, uh, good luck, Luke, but I'm going to pass this over to you to defend going to pass this over to you to defend going to pass this over to you to defend this. And I would love to hear how you this. And I would love to hear how you this. And I would love to hear how you make this happen, especially with a make this happen, especially with a make this happen, especially with a church of like not a small church, I church of like not a small church, I church of like not a small church, I don't think. Right. don't think. Right. don't think. Right. >> No. Uh, right now we're about 2,300 on a >> No. Uh, right now we're about 2,300 on a >> No. Uh, right now we're about 2,300 on a Sunday. Um, so yeah, large church and Sunday. Um, so yeah, large church and Sunday. Um, so yeah, large church and um, yeah, I mean I feel like I'm um, yeah, I mean I feel like I'm um, yeah, I mean I feel like I'm actually surprised to hear you say that actually surprised to hear you say that actually surprised to hear you say that you say we should do more no more than you say we should do more no more than you say we should do more no more than three cuz I feel like I've heard from three cuz I feel like I've heard from three cuz I feel like I've heard from you you should only do one. So um, and I you you should only do one. So um, and I you you should only do one. So um, and I think in that thread you're referencing think in that thread you're referencing think in that thread you're referencing I think I actually linked to one of your I think I actually linked to one of your I think I actually linked to one of your videos on how to do announcements. But videos on how to do announcements. But videos on how to do announcements. But yeah, we just we just find that people yeah, we just we just find that people yeah, we just we just find that people really tune out after not very long really tune out after not very long really tune out after not very long during that moment. Um, and so having during that moment. Um, and so having during that moment. Um, and so having one announcement that really matters, one announcement that really matters, one announcement that really matters, that's really done well, that has a that's really done well, that has a that's really done well, that has a story and a clear call to action, all story and a clear call to action, all story and a clear call to action, all the stuff that you uh teach on, I mean, the stuff that you uh teach on, I mean, the stuff that you uh teach on, I mean, that has made a huge difference for us that has made a huge difference for us that has made a huge difference for us where, you know, we've seen people where, you know, we've seen people where, you know, we've seen people actually responding to the stuff. I actually responding to the stuff. I actually responding to the stuff. I mean, I just look at it and go, if if mean, I just look at it and go, if if mean, I just look at it and go, if if you want people to actually move, like you want people to actually move, like you want people to actually move, like if if the goal is to just make the staff if if the goal is to just make the staff if if the goal is to just make the staff and leaders on your church happy that and leaders on your church happy that and leaders on your church happy that you announced something, well, then by you announced something, well, then by you announced something, well, then by all means have 100 announcements. But if all means have 100 announcements. But if all means have 100 announcements. But if the goal is to actually get people in the goal is to actually get people in the goal is to actually get people in your church to act on the thing you're your church to act on the thing you're your church to act on the thing you're trying to get them to act on, well then trying to get them to act on, well then trying to get them to act on, well then do one, [snorts] right? There's that old do one, [snorts] right? There's that old do one, [snorts] right? There's that old famous study, and I don't get all the famous study, and I don't get all the famous study, and I don't get all the details right here, but you know, they details right here, but you know, they details right here, but you know, they went to grocery stores and they went, went to grocery stores and they went, went to grocery stores and they went, "All right, here's five different kinds "All right, here's five different kinds "All right, here's five different kinds of jam that you can sample, and then of jam that you can sample, and then of jam that you can sample, and then here's 25 different kinds of jam. Which

here's 25 different kinds of jam. Which here's 25 different kinds of jam. Which table sold more jam?" Well, it was the table sold more jam?" Well, it was the table sold more jam?" Well, it was the one that had fewer options, not the one one that had fewer options, not the one one that had fewer options, not the one that had more. And so we overload people that had more. And so we overload people that had more. And so we overload people and all all of a sudden it's filled with and all all of a sudden it's filled with and all all of a sudden it's filled with white noise and um people are just white noise and um people are just white noise and um people are just feeling you know you start sounding like feeling you know you start sounding like feeling you know you start sounding like Charlie Brown's teacher Charlie Brown's teacher Charlie Brown's teacher you know like they don't hear anything. you know like they don't hear anything. you know like they don't hear anything. And so yeah that's been that's been a And so yeah that's been that's been a And so yeah that's been that's been a big deal. Now, what we've had to do as big deal. Now, what we've had to do as big deal. Now, what we've had to do as well is to create a and I actually well is to create a and I actually well is to create a and I actually created like a a matrix for this for our created like a a matrix for this for our created like a a matrix for this for our team to go, team to go, team to go, >> yes, yes, >> yes, yes, >> yes, yes, >> here's how we announce different kinds >> here's how we announce different kinds >> here's how we announce different kinds of things and here's how we communicate of things and here's how we communicate of things and here's how we communicate it. Cuz some stuff works better with a it. Cuz some stuff works better with a it. Cuz some stuff works better with a stage announcement. Some stuff works stage announcement. Some stuff works stage announcement. Some stuff works better with a targeted email to certain better with a targeted email to certain better with a targeted email to certain people in your church. Some people uh people in your church. Some people uh people in your church. Some people uh some stuff works better in other ways. some stuff works better in other ways. some stuff works better in other ways. So, um, when we started telling our So, um, when we started telling our So, um, when we started telling our team, hey, we're not going to be able to team, hey, we're not going to be able to team, hey, we're not going to be able to announce everything from stage, we had announce everything from stage, we had announce everything from stage, we had to go, but here's how we are going to be to go, but here's how we are going to be to go, but here's how we are going to be able to announce and communicate other able to announce and communicate other able to announce and communicate other things. So, uh, that would be that would things. So, uh, that would be that would things. So, uh, that would be that would be how we've approached it. be how we've approached it. be how we've approached it. >> I was scrolling through the comments of >> I was scrolling through the comments of >> I was scrolling through the comments of this Twitter thread and I saw one this Twitter thread and I saw one this Twitter thread and I saw one presumably a pastor jump in and say, presumably a pastor jump in and say, presumably a pastor jump in and say, "Hey, Luke, I I love all these five, "Hey, Luke, I I love all these five, "Hey, Luke, I I love all these five, particularly the first one. I hear you particularly the first one. I hear you particularly the first one. I hear you about the the one announcement and I about the the one announcement and I about the the one announcement and I actually agree, but I just can't seem to actually agree, but I just can't seem to actually agree, but I just can't seem to get our our announcements down from like get our our announcements down from like get our our announcements down from like maybe two or three. So, they're getting maybe two or three. So, they're getting maybe two or three. So, they're getting closer, but he's like, I just can't get closer, but he's like, I just can't get closer, but he's like, I just can't get to one announcement. And you responded to one announcement. And you responded to one announcement. And you responded and you said, "We've actually found that and you said, "We've actually found that and you said, "We've actually found that when we do one announcement, the when we do one announcement, the when we do one announcement, the announcement is better and people are announcement is better and people are announcement is better and people are better at giving it." So, without maybe better at giving it." So, without maybe better at giving it." So, without maybe getting into the whole matrix, can you getting into the whole matrix, can you getting into the whole matrix, can you just give us some insight how you choose just give us some insight how you choose just give us some insight how you choose what gets that one stage announcement

what gets that one stage announcement what gets that one stage announcement each weekend? each weekend? each weekend? Yeah. So the default stage announcement Yeah. So the default stage announcement Yeah. So the default stage announcement is always our start here which is our is always our start here which is our is always our start here which is our first step class. So that's the default. first step class. So that's the default. first step class. So that's the default. If we're not sure anything else, that's If we're not sure anything else, that's If we're not sure anything else, that's what we're doing. And the way I think what we're doing. And the way I think what we're doing. And the way I think about announcement times in general about announcement times in general about announcement times in general [snorts] is it's a little bit like when [snorts] is it's a little bit like when [snorts] is it's a little bit like when you got an get on an airplane and it's you got an get on an airplane and it's you got an get on an airplane and it's like they're telling you how to buckle like they're telling you how to buckle like they're telling you how to buckle your seat belt. And the only thing that your seat belt. And the only thing that your seat belt. And the only thing that that's the only people that's helpful that's the only people that's helpful that's the only people that's helpful for are the people who've never been on for are the people who've never been on for are the people who've never been on a plane. Like everyone else kind of a plane. Like everyone else kind of a plane. Like everyone else kind of tunes that out. And so I think that tunes that out. And so I think that tunes that out. And so I think that welcome and announcement time, it's welcome and announcement time, it's welcome and announcement time, it's especially for your guests. It's like especially for your guests. It's like especially for your guests. It's like they're the people that are most they're the people that are most they're the people that are most listening. So that's why we went, okay, listening. So that's why we went, okay, listening. So that's why we went, okay, our default announcement is going to be our default announcement is going to be our default announcement is going to be an invitation to start here. So that's an invitation to start here. So that's an invitation to start here. So that's the default. From there, we go, does the default. From there, we go, does the default. From there, we go, does this announcement, is it relevant for this announcement, is it relevant for this announcement, is it relevant for half or more of our church? So that's half or more of our church? So that's half or more of our church? So that's something that we would certainly something that we would certainly something that we would certainly consider. If it's not, then usually the consider. If it's not, then usually the consider. If it's not, then usually the answer is going to be we're not going to answer is going to be we're not going to answer is going to be we're not going to announce that from stage. Uh what we announce that from stage. Uh what we announce that from stage. Uh what we might do is figure out is there a place might do is figure out is there a place might do is figure out is there a place to make that an application point in a to make that an application point in a to make that an application point in a sermon where it could still get talked sermon where it could still get talked sermon where it could still get talked about from the front, but it's not about from the front, but it's not about from the front, but it's not necessarily the announcement time unless necessarily the announcement time unless necessarily the announcement time unless it's something we feel like is just it's something we feel like is just it's something we feel like is just really strategic. So the really really strategic. So the really really strategic. So the really strategic stuff for us is nextgen stuff.

strategic stuff for us is nextgen stuff. strategic stuff for us is nextgen stuff. So student ministry related stuff, just So student ministry related stuff, just So student ministry related stuff, just cuz one of our core strategic values as cuz one of our core strategic values as cuz one of our core strategic values as a church is that we fight for kids and a church is that we fight for kids and a church is that we fight for kids and families. So, we're going to really push families. So, we're going to really push families. So, we're going to really push and announce stuff related to a [snorts] and announce stuff related to a [snorts] and announce stuff related to a [snorts] kids camp or related to a student camp, kids camp or related to a student camp, kids camp or related to a student camp, even though that's not necessarily more even though that's not necessarily more even though that's not necessarily more than 50% of church or if it's like some than 50% of church or if it's like some than 50% of church or if it's like some sort of outward focus missionoriented sort of outward focus missionoriented sort of outward focus missionoriented thing that is just key to our strategy. thing that is just key to our strategy. thing that is just key to our strategy. So, so that really would be it. The So, so that really would be it. The So, so that really would be it. The default is the assimilation process. Uh default is the assimilation process. Uh default is the assimilation process. Uh [snorts] from there, it's does it affect [snorts] from there, it's does it affect [snorts] from there, it's does it affect more than half the church or is it more than half the church or is it more than half the church or is it incredibly strategic? And uh as senior incredibly strategic? And uh as senior incredibly strategic? And uh as senior leaders, I decide and our senior team leaders, I decide and our senior team leaders, I decide and our senior team really decides what we think is most really decides what we think is most really decides what we think is most strategic. strategic. strategic. Uh, I'll just give the quick criterion Uh, I'll just give the quick criterion Uh, I'll just give the quick criterion for what we recommend because it very for what we recommend because it very for what we recommend because it very very closely aligns with what Luke just very closely aligns with what Luke just very closely aligns with what Luke just said. And I will also affirm the idea said. And I will also affirm the idea said. And I will also affirm the idea that the fewer announcements that you that the fewer announcements that you that the fewer announcements that you do, the more effective they're going to do, the more effective they're going to do, the more effective they're going to be. So, I found the acceptable sweet be. So, I found the acceptable sweet be. So, I found the acceptable sweet spot amongst most churches was I said spot amongst most churches was I said spot amongst most churches was I said three or fewer where they would accept, three or fewer where they would accept, three or fewer where they would accept, okay, I can get towards three, two, even okay, I can get towards three, two, even okay, I can get towards three, two, even better, one even better, but three or better, one even better, but three or better, one even better, but three or fewer is that rule of thumb. So in our fewer is that rule of thumb. So in our fewer is that rule of thumb. So in our communications philosophy, we break up communications philosophy, we break up communications philosophy, we break up church events into five levels.

church events into five levels. church events into five levels. >> The top three levels, levels 1, 2, and >> The top three levels, levels 1, 2, and >> The top three levels, levels 1, 2, and three are the only three are the only three are the only events that are allowed, events that are allowed, events that are allowed, capable, accessible to stage capable, accessible to stage capable, accessible to stage announcements. announcements. announcements. >> Level one is defined as any event that >> Level one is defined as any event that >> Level one is defined as any event that affects 80% of the church or is a bridge affects 80% of the church or is a bridge affects 80% of the church or is a bridge event. So slightly different than what event. So slightly different than what event. So slightly different than what Luke said, but he talked about outreach. Luke said, but he talked about outreach. Luke said, but he talked about outreach. So like we just did trunk or treat a So like we just did trunk or treat a So like we just did trunk or treat a couple weekends ago. trunk or treat. couple weekends ago. trunk or treat. couple weekends ago. trunk or treat. Thousands and thousands of people hit Thousands and thousands of people hit Thousands and thousands of people hit the church campus. Um that is a level the church campus. Um that is a level the church campus. Um that is a level one event. So that warrants a stage one event. So that warrants a stage one event. So that warrants a stage announcement. A level two event is a announcement. A level two event is a announcement. A level two event is a core next step. core next step. core next step. >> So that would be giving, volunteering, >> So that would be giving, volunteering, >> So that would be giving, volunteering, water baptism, new visitor connection, water baptism, new visitor connection, water baptism, new visitor connection, growth track, assimilation, intro class, growth track, assimilation, intro class, growth track, assimilation, intro class, whatever you call it. And then the third whatever you call it. And then the third whatever you call it. And then the third one is nextgen. And in our level three one is nextgen. And in our level three one is nextgen. And in our level three description, we talk about how this tier description, we talk about how this tier description, we talk about how this tier of ministry gets access to things that of ministry gets access to things that of ministry gets access to things that are disproportionate to what it brings are disproportionate to what it brings are disproportionate to what it brings the church. The attendance, giving the church. The attendance, giving the church. The attendance, giving volume, churchwide participation do not volume, churchwide participation do not volume, churchwide participation do not merit this. But based on the missional merit this. But based on the missional merit this. But based on the missional value we place in this and how value we place in this and how value we place in this and how distinct NextG ministry is in church distinct NextG ministry is in church distinct NextG ministry is in church health, growth, and vitality, we are health, growth, and vitality, we are health, growth, and vitality, we are going to give this ministry access to going to give this ministry access to going to give this ministry access to things that otherwise wouldn't.

things that otherwise wouldn't. things that otherwise wouldn't. >> Yeah. the study that Luke mentioned, one >> Yeah. the study that Luke mentioned, one >> Yeah. the study that Luke mentioned, one of the interesting things about that jam of the interesting things about that jam of the interesting things about that jam study is that so there's two tables, study is that so there's two tables, study is that so there's two tables, five jam, 25 jam. The 25 jam table five jam, 25 jam. The 25 jam table five jam, 25 jam. The 25 jam table attracted more interest. attracted more interest. attracted more interest. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But the five jam table attracted more >> But the five jam table attracted more >> But the five jam table attracted more buyers, buyers, buyers, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And one of our churchcom's policies is >> And one of our churchcom's policies is >> And one of our churchcom's policies is that awareness is not interest. that awareness is not interest. that awareness is not interest. >> And that is the distinction I think when >> And that is the distinction I think when >> And that is the distinction I think when you're talking with your ministry you're talking with your ministry you're talking with your ministry leaders and emphasizing to them. They leaders and emphasizing to them. They leaders and emphasizing to them. They might come to you and say, "Hey, like I might come to you and say, "Hey, like I might come to you and say, "Hey, like I lead up the women's ministry. I need lead up the women's ministry. I need lead up the women's ministry. I need volunteers. I need a stage volunteers. I need a stage volunteers. I need a stage announcement." And what we say to them, announcement." And what we say to them, announcement." And what we say to them, another church con policy is that Sunday another church con policy is that Sunday another church con policy is that Sunday is not your savior. And that gets to is not your savior. And that gets to is not your savior. And that gets to what Luke is saying about, hey, I care what Luke is saying about, hey, I care what Luke is saying about, hey, I care about this. I affirm you. We want more about this. I affirm you. We want more about this. I affirm you. We want more volunteers in the women's ministry. We volunteers in the women's ministry. We volunteers in the women's ministry. We want you to succeed. How can we serve want you to succeed. How can we serve want you to succeed. How can we serve that need recognizing that we're not that need recognizing that we're not that need recognizing that we're not going to give you access to this? going to give you access to this? going to give you access to this? Because if I say yes to this, it means Because if I say yes to this, it means Because if I say yes to this, it means that we're not going to get as many that we're not going to get as many that we're not going to get as many people into the intro class, which is people into the intro class, which is people into the intro class, which is ironically [clears throat] ironically [clears throat] ironically [clears throat] where we're going to give them the where we're going to give them the where we're going to give them the opportunity to volunteer in your women's opportunity to volunteer in your women's opportunity to volunteer in your women's ministry. [laughter] ministry. [laughter] ministry. [laughter] >> That's the first item. First small >> That's the first item. First small >> That's the first item. First small change of five Luke. Let's go to the change of five Luke. Let's go to the change of five Luke. Let's go to the second one. The next one usually comes second one. The next one usually comes second one. The next one usually comes after the announcement reading.

after the announcement reading. after the announcement reading. >> Yes. Which is standing for the scripture >> Yes. Which is standing for the scripture >> Yes. Which is standing for the scripture reading. Care to unpack that for us? reading. Care to unpack that for us? reading. Care to unpack that for us? >> Yeah. So in our church, we typically >> Yeah. So in our church, we typically >> Yeah. So in our church, we typically will preach most of the time through one will preach most of the time through one will preach most of the time through one primary passage of scripture. Even if primary passage of scripture. Even if primary passage of scripture. Even if we're doing more of a thematic or a we're doing more of a thematic or a we're doing more of a thematic or a systematic theology topical kind of systematic theology topical kind of systematic theology topical kind of series, we'll still have one main series, we'll still have one main series, we'll still have one main passage that we're teaching out of. And passage that we're teaching out of. And passage that we're teaching out of. And so uh we've just decided to have a so uh we've just decided to have a so uh we've just decided to have a practice of inviting everybody to stand. practice of inviting everybody to stand. practice of inviting everybody to stand. Uh and we have volunteers in our church Uh and we have volunteers in our church Uh and we have volunteers in our church who are good at reading and they read it who are good at reading and they read it who are good at reading and they read it and uh we usually have some sort of tag and uh we usually have some sort of tag and uh we usually have some sort of tag at the end that we keep consistent uh at the end that we keep consistent uh at the end that we keep consistent uh that even the tag is is forming people. that even the tag is is forming people. that even the tag is is forming people. But there's just something about But there's just something about But there's just something about standing for God's word uh that standing for God's word uh that standing for God's word uh that communicates some reverence. It communicates some reverence. It communicates some reverence. It communicates uh this is no ordinary communicates uh this is no ordinary communicates uh this is no ordinary thing. Um this is not just the thing. Um this is not just the thing. Um this is not just the preacher's opinions, but like we're preacher's opinions, but like we're preacher's opinions, but like we're giving God honor even through our giving God honor even through our giving God honor even through our physical posture. Um, and so almost physical posture. Um, and so almost physical posture. Um, and so almost every church that's preaching the Bible every church that's preaching the Bible every church that's preaching the Bible is going to at some point read the is going to at some point read the is going to at some point read the passage. I just think one of the small passage. I just think one of the small passage. I just think one of the small tweaks you can do is to invite people to tweaks you can do is to invite people to tweaks you can do is to invite people to stand physically [snorts] and there is stand physically [snorts] and there is stand physically [snorts] and there is something it just communicates about something it just communicates about something it just communicates about what's happening that I think is what's happening that I think is what's happening that I think is formational to people.

formational to people. formational to people. >> Yeah, agreed. And it also represents >> Yeah, agreed. And it also represents >> Yeah, agreed. And it also represents what makes church unique is that like we what makes church unique is that like we what makes church unique is that like we have people in person have people in person have people in person >> and [clears throat] so why not take >> and [clears throat] so why not take >> and [clears throat] so why not take advantage of that and like hey let's advantage of that and like hey let's advantage of that and like hey let's inject a physical change. You're going inject a physical change. You're going inject a physical change. You're going to sit during preaching. You're going to to sit during preaching. You're going to to sit during preaching. You're going to stand during worship if you're able. stand during worship if you're able. stand during worship if you're able. Hey, let's stand for the reading of Hey, let's stand for the reading of Hey, let's stand for the reading of God's word as well. I really believe in God's word as well. I really believe in God's word as well. I really believe in the difference that it just creates in the difference that it just creates in the difference that it just creates in your body when you're like postured in your body when you're like postured in your body when you're like postured in that way. that way. that way. >> Yeah, it's formational as are kind of >> Yeah, it's formational as are kind of >> Yeah, it's formational as are kind of the next three things we're going to the next three things we're going to the next three things we're going to talk about. They're kind of all embodied talk about. They're kind of all embodied talk about. They're kind of all embodied actions, but it is formational in a way. actions, but it is formational in a way. actions, but it is formational in a way. And there's one way to look at it. And there's one way to look at it. And there's one way to look at it. Whereas, you know, it's kind of a good Whereas, you know, it's kind of a good Whereas, you know, it's kind of a good pattern interrupt uh to to to regain pattern interrupt uh to to to regain pattern interrupt uh to to to regain attention. Not in like a neurohacking attention. Not in like a neurohacking attention. Not in like a neurohacking kind of way, but in like a yeah, this is kind of way, but in like a yeah, this is kind of way, but in like a yeah, this is this is this is formational. This is a this is this is formational. This is a this is this is formational. This is a giving honor to the words of God. This giving honor to the words of God. This giving honor to the words of God. This is um yeah, just acknowledging that this is um yeah, just acknowledging that this is um yeah, just acknowledging that this moment, this text, this space is sacred. moment, this text, this space is sacred. moment, this text, this space is sacred. And it can really serve to like And it can really serve to like And it can really serve to like reactivate your body and regain your reactivate your body and regain your reactivate your body and regain your attention if maybe you did happen to attention if maybe you did happen to attention if maybe you did happen to tune out during the uh announcement tune out during the uh announcement tune out during the uh announcement section [clears throat] of the of the section [clears throat] of the of the section [clears throat] of the of the service. Luke, I'm curious because you service. Luke, I'm curious because you service. Luke, I'm curious because you know for most evangelical traditions in know for most evangelical traditions in know for most evangelical traditions in the West, this is not a common practice.

the West, this is not a common practice. the West, this is not a common practice. May not be unfamiliar, but not common. May not be unfamiliar, but not common. May not be unfamiliar, but not common. Um for other um denominational uh um Um for other um denominational uh um Um for other um denominational uh um sects of the Christian faith, this is sects of the Christian faith, this is sects of the Christian faith, this is standard practice. I'm curious, do you standard practice. I'm curious, do you standard practice. I'm curious, do you recall, do you know where this um this recall, do you know where this um this recall, do you know where this um this idea, this practice like first came into idea, this practice like first came into idea, this practice like first came into your consciousness and like what what your consciousness and like what what your consciousness and like what what brought you to introducing this to your brought you to introducing this to your brought you to introducing this to your church in the first place? church in the first place? church in the first place? You know, I think it probably was back You know, I think it probably was back You know, I think it probably was back in the day listening to messages by Tim in the day listening to messages by Tim in the day listening to messages by Tim Keller and hearing a scripture reading Keller and hearing a scripture reading Keller and hearing a scripture reading at the beginning of those recordings and at the beginning of those recordings and at the beginning of those recordings and um and so I think that got me thinking um and so I think that got me thinking um and so I think that got me thinking about it and I think so much of what our about it and I think so much of what our about it and I think so much of what our services are very casual for the most services are very casual for the most services are very casual for the most part. I mean it's very contemporary part. I mean it's very contemporary part. I mean it's very contemporary music people, you know, there's coffee music people, you know, there's coffee music people, you know, there's coffee everywhere. People are, you know, everywhere. People are, you know, everywhere. People are, you know, Arizona, if you can get people like in a Arizona, if you can get people like in a Arizona, if you can get people like in a tie to go to a wedding, that's like tie to go to a wedding, that's like tie to go to a wedding, that's like really formal. like it's a very casual really formal. like it's a very casual really formal. like it's a very casual place and so um everything else is so place and so um everything else is so place and so um everything else is so casual they're like let's have something casual they're like let's have something casual they're like let's have something that feels that feels weighty let's have that feels that feels weighty let's have that feels that feels weighty let's have something that feels heavier and there something that feels heavier and there something that feels heavier and there are quite a few people from different are quite a few people from different are quite a few people from different religious backgrounds especially Roman religious backgrounds especially Roman religious backgrounds especially Roman Catholic backgrounds in our environment Catholic backgrounds in our environment Catholic backgrounds in our environment and what's really interesting or even and what's really interesting or even and what's really interesting or even the LDS there's a lot of LDS folks and the LDS there's a lot of LDS folks and the LDS there's a lot of LDS folks and when they come to our church it's really when they come to our church it's really when they come to our church it's really interesting cuz on one hand they like interesting cuz on one hand they like interesting cuz on one hand they like really enjoy it but they kind of feel really enjoy it but they kind of feel really enjoy it but they kind of feel like I don't think I'm supposed to enjoy like I don't think I'm supposed to enjoy like I don't think I'm supposed to enjoy it this much it's supposed [snorts] to it this much it's supposed [snorts] to it this much it's supposed [snorts] to feel more serious. And so just having feel more serious. And so just having feel more serious. And so just having that little moment of we're standing to that little moment of we're standing to that little moment of we're standing to read the scripture. Uh one of the things read the scripture. Uh one of the things read the scripture. Uh one of the things I don't think I put in that uh in that I don't think I put in that uh in that I don't think I put in that uh in that thing is we we want to always have on thing is we we want to always have on thing is we we want to always have on our stage [snorts] uh a place where

our stage [snorts] uh a place where our stage [snorts] uh a place where there's a cross. And that's not because there's a cross. And that's not because there's a cross. And that's not because I think God loves you more if you have a I think God loves you more if you have a I think God loves you more if you have a cross, but that really helps Roman cross, but that really helps Roman cross, but that really helps Roman Catholic people who are used to a Catholic people who are used to a Catholic people who are used to a crucifix. And it's like that actually crucifix. And it's like that actually crucifix. And it's like that actually engages with them. Taking the Lord's engages with them. Taking the Lord's engages with them. Taking the Lord's supper every week is which is I think supper every week is which is I think supper every week is which is I think something we'll talk about as well. So something we'll talk about as well. So something we'll talk about as well. So those are things that are communicating those are things that are communicating those are things that are communicating to some non-Christians who come from a to some non-Christians who come from a to some non-Christians who come from a more religious background. And this just more religious background. And this just more religious background. And this just little subtle things, but it it it helps little subtle things, but it it it helps little subtle things, but it it it helps build a bridge there. And for unchurched build a bridge there. And for unchurched build a bridge there. And for unchurched people, they sort of expect it to be people, they sort of expect it to be people, they sort of expect it to be really religious. So they're not shocked really religious. So they're not shocked really religious. So they're not shocked when you say, "Would you please stand?" when you say, "Would you please stand?" when you say, "Would you please stand?" They're not turned off by that. They They're not turned off by that. They They're not turned off by that. They they kind of go, "Oh, well, I figured they kind of go, "Oh, well, I figured they kind of go, "Oh, well, I figured that's what church people did." So that's what church people did." So that's what church people did." So [snorts] it's it's really like kind of [snorts] it's it's really like kind of [snorts] it's it's really like kind of an easy win all the way around. It's uh an easy win all the way around. It's uh an easy win all the way around. It's uh other than maybe the extra few seconds other than maybe the extra few seconds other than maybe the extra few seconds it takes to ask people, hey, if you're it takes to ask people, hey, if you're it takes to ask people, hey, if you're able to, please stand, it really um it's able to, please stand, it really um it's able to, please stand, it really um it's such a small change that I think makes a such a small change that I think makes a such a small change that I think makes a a disproportionate difference. Well, and a disproportionate difference. Well, and a disproportionate difference. Well, and what I'm hearing from you, Luke, is what what I'm hearing from you, Luke, is what what I'm hearing from you, Luke, is what I'm realizing why I really appreciate I'm realizing why I really appreciate I'm realizing why I really appreciate following you on Twitter is that your following you on Twitter is that your following you on Twitter is that your motivation, it sounds like to me your motivation, it sounds like to me your motivation, it sounds like to me your motivation here is both um coming from a motivation here is both um coming from a motivation here is both um coming from a place of pastoral care and place of pastoral care and place of pastoral care and communication, right? you're you're communication, right? you're you're communication, right? you're you're you're acknowledging the different you're acknowledging the different you're acknowledging the different backgrounds of folks and trying to care backgrounds of folks and trying to care backgrounds of folks and trying to care for them in the way that you for them in the way that you for them in the way that you >> invite them to worship God and then >> invite them to worship God and then >> invite them to worship God and then >> prioritizing having a cross on the stage >> prioritizing having a cross on the stage >> prioritizing having a cross on the stage is is literally communication, right?

is is literally communication, right? is is literally communication, right? Like you're you're communicating not Like you're you're communicating not Like you're you're communicating not with a stage announcement or not even with a stage announcement or not even with a stage announcement or not even with words, but with symbolism. And I I with words, but with symbolism. And I I with words, but with symbolism. And I I I see a lot of pastoral care and care I see a lot of pastoral care and care I see a lot of pastoral care and care for communication in those the the way for communication in those the the way for communication in those the the way that you're designing your worship that you're designing your worship that you're designing your worship services. And obviously that comes services. And obviously that comes services. And obviously that comes through on Twitter, too. Um but yeah, through on Twitter, too. Um but yeah, through on Twitter, too. Um but yeah, that I I really do appreciate that. um that I I really do appreciate that. um that I I really do appreciate that. um of you. of you. of you. >> Well, thanks. >> Well, thanks. >> Well, thanks. >> We're we're talking about different >> We're we're talking about different >> We're we're talking about different elements of the worship service. I think elements of the worship service. I think elements of the worship service. I think some useful context might be some useful context might be some useful context might be understanding how you sequence these understanding how you sequence these understanding how you sequence these things. So, at what point do things. So, at what point do things. So, at what point do announcements typically occur in service announcements typically occur in service announcements typically occur in service at Ironwood? at Ironwood? at Ironwood? >> Tell you what, man. Nobody I know loves >> Tell you what, man. Nobody I know loves >> Tell you what, man. Nobody I know loves when they do announcements. It's kind of when they do announcements. It's kind of when they do announcements. It's kind of always a We've done them in every spot. always a We've done them in every spot. always a We've done them in every spot. Uh right now what we typically do is two Uh right now what we typically do is two Uh right now what we typically do is two or three songs and then we do a welcome or three songs and then we do a welcome or three songs and then we do a welcome and into into the announcements or and into into the announcements or and into into the announcements or announcement since it's only one. But announcement since it's only one. But announcement since it's only one. But >> that's typically where it is. And then >> that's typically where it is. And then >> that's typically where it is. And then the transition from there is after that the transition from there is after that the transition from there is after that announcement we'll have a prayer time a announcement we'll have a prayer time a announcement we'll have a prayer time a brief to consecrate the giving for that brief to consecrate the giving for that brief to consecrate the giving for that week. And then that host will say we're week. And then that host will say we're week. And then that host will say we're now going to turn our attention to God's now going to turn our attention to God's now going to turn our attention to God's word. Uh here's the passage. Here's the word. Uh here's the passage. Here's the word. Uh here's the passage. Here's the page number in the Bibles in the seats page number in the Bibles in the seats page number in the Bibles in the seats in front of you. if you're able to in front of you. if you're able to in front of you. if you're able to please stand for the reading of God's please stand for the reading of God's please stand for the reading of God's word and then that moves into the into word and then that moves into the into word and then that moves into the into the sermon and then typically the sermon the sermon and then typically the sermon the sermon and then typically the sermon is followed by communion and then a few is followed by communion and then a few is followed by communion and then a few more songs.

more songs. more songs. >> So you mentioned that you have people >> So you mentioned that you have people >> So you mentioned that you have people that are good at reading the word. So is that are good at reading the word. So is that are good at reading the word. So is it not you who does that reading each it not you who does that reading each it not you who does that reading each week? week? week? >> Yeah, it's typically um it's lay people >> Yeah, it's typically um it's lay people >> Yeah, it's typically um it's lay people in our church. So I mean almost in our church. So I mean almost in our church. So I mean almost everything else is led by uh staff. everything else is led by uh staff. everything else is led by uh staff. that's typically who's doing the that's typically who's doing the that's typically who's doing the welcome, the announcements, but it's uh welcome, the announcements, but it's uh welcome, the announcements, but it's uh yeah, it's a mixture of ages and men and yeah, it's a mixture of ages and men and yeah, it's a mixture of ages and men and women and uh yeah, and it's in some ways women and uh yeah, and it's in some ways women and uh yeah, and it's in some ways like some of the folks on our staff have like some of the folks on our staff have like some of the folks on our staff have gone, it's kind of the clunkiest part of gone, it's kind of the clunkiest part of gone, it's kind of the clunkiest part of the service. the service. the service. >> And yet, I like that. >> And yet, I like that. >> And yet, I like that. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I like that it's not everything's not >> I like that it's not everything's not >> I like that it's not everything's not super slick. And [snorts] I really like super slick. And [snorts] I really like super slick. And [snorts] I really like that it's saying like the word is for that it's saying like the word is for that it's saying like the word is for us. It's for all of us. It's accessible. us. It's for all of us. It's accessible. us. It's for all of us. It's accessible. And sometimes people stumble as they And sometimes people stumble as they And sometimes people stumble as they read it a little bit and sometimes they read it a little bit and sometimes they read it a little bit and sometimes they pronounce a word funky just like pronounce a word funky just like pronounce a word funky just like everyone who ever reads the Bible. And everyone who ever reads the Bible. And everyone who ever reads the Bible. And [snorts] so I I don't mind that and I I [snorts] so I I don't mind that and I I [snorts] so I I don't mind that and I I appreciate it actually. appreciate it actually. appreciate it actually. >> Interestingly, it sounds like it's being >> Interestingly, it sounds like it's being >> Interestingly, it sounds like it's being a substitute for like the sermon series a substitute for like the sermon series a substitute for like the sermon series starter that many churches would play as starter that many churches would play as starter that many churches would play as that transition element coming out of that transition element coming out of that transition element coming out of announcements, coming out of giving into announcements, coming out of giving into announcements, coming out of giving into the sermon. So, at our church, like we the sermon. So, at our church, like we the sermon. So, at our church, like we always have a sermon starter. Uh, always have a sermon starter. Uh, always have a sermon starter. Uh, announcements end or worship ends, house announcements end or worship ends, house announcements end or worship ends, house lights come down, sermon starter is on, lights come down, sermon starter is on, lights come down, sermon starter is on, that allows the band to exit the stage, that allows the band to exit the stage, that allows the band to exit the stage, pastor can bring on the pulpit, lights pastor can bring on the pulpit, lights pastor can bring on the pulpit, lights come up at the end of sermon starter, come up at the end of sermon starter, come up at the end of sermon starter, and then he'll kind of jump into the and then he'll kind of jump into the and then he'll kind of jump into the message. And so, this is almost like a message. And so, this is almost like a message. And so, this is almost like a substitution for that. And, you know,

substitution for that. And, you know, substitution for that. And, you know, there are some days where like depending there are some days where like depending there are some days where like depending on like the sermon starter, I'm like, on like the sermon starter, I'm like, on like the sermon starter, I'm like, that was a bit [laughter] that was a bit [laughter] that was a bit [laughter] >> cheesy. I don't know. >> cheesy. I don't know. >> cheesy. I don't know. >> Yeah. Uh, you know, it's hard coming up >> Yeah. Uh, you know, it's hard coming up >> Yeah. Uh, you know, it's hard coming up with a good sermon starter every month. with a good sermon starter every month. with a good sermon starter every month. It's like 12 a year. Like, hey, come on. It's like 12 a year. Like, hey, come on. It's like 12 a year. Like, hey, come on. The standards of Hollywood. But, uh, I I The standards of Hollywood. But, uh, I I The standards of Hollywood. But, uh, I I think the other great thing about doing think the other great thing about doing think the other great thing about doing the reading of God's word in this way is the reading of God's word in this way is the reading of God's word in this way is that by doing it first and for standing that by doing it first and for standing that by doing it first and for standing for it, you are just with your action for it, you are just with your action for it, you are just with your action communicating that this is not about the communicating that this is not about the communicating that this is not about the name of our sermon. It is not about the name of our sermon. It is not about the name of our sermon. It is not about the pathy sermon series title. It is not pathy sermon series title. It is not pathy sermon series title. It is not about the great artwork we've made. The about the great artwork we've made. The about the great artwork we've made. The foundation, the substance is the word of foundation, the substance is the word of foundation, the substance is the word of God. God. God. >> And by having someone else read it, I >> And by having someone else read it, I >> And by having someone else read it, I think that also commu communicates think that also commu communicates think that also commu communicates something non-verbbally, which is like something non-verbbally, which is like something non-verbbally, which is like the word of God is accessible for all. the word of God is accessible for all. the word of God is accessible for all. And we all come to it as like humans And we all come to it as like humans And we all come to it as like humans made in the image of God. This is not made in the image of God. This is not made in the image of God. This is not like I am the pastor and I am the only like I am the pastor and I am the only like I am the pastor and I am the only one who is able to take this and make it one who is able to take this and make it one who is able to take this and make it accessible to you. accessible to you. accessible to you. >> That's our story. >> That's our story. >> That's our story. >> Exactly. Um, let's move. Oh, final >> Exactly. Um, let's move. Oh, final >> Exactly. Um, let's move. Oh, final question I wanted to ask. mentioned at question I wanted to ask. mentioned at question I wanted to ask. mentioned at the end of the sermon reading there's the end of the sermon reading there's the end of the sermon reading there's almost like a tag. So do you always say almost like a tag. So do you always say almost like a tag. So do you always say something like and thus concludes the something like and thus concludes the something like and thus concludes the reading of God's word everyone says amen reading of God's word everyone says amen reading of God's word everyone says amen or do you have like a fun producer tag or do you have like a fun producer tag or do you have like a fun producer tag at the end like what do you do?

at the end like what do you do? at the end like what do you do? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> So um if we have a longer series we'll >> So um if we have a longer series we'll >> So um if we have a longer series we'll change it up for that series. Uh what change it up for that series. Uh what change it up for that series. Uh what we've done for this year so like our we we've done for this year so like our we we've done for this year so like our we what we've actually decided this year is what we've actually decided this year is what we've actually decided this year is our theme for the year all of our sermon our theme for the year all of our sermon our theme for the year all of our sermon series in some way connect to the idea series in some way connect to the idea series in some way connect to the idea that we find the truly good life in that we find the truly good life in that we find the truly good life in Jesus. So everyone is pursuing a good Jesus. So everyone is pursuing a good Jesus. So everyone is pursuing a good life. Jesus actually tells us what the life. Jesus actually tells us what the life. Jesus actually tells us what the good life is. So all of our sermon good life is. So all of our sermon good life is. So all of our sermon series somehow are shaping our series somehow are shaping our series somehow are shaping our understanding of the good life. So we understanding of the good life. So we understanding of the good life. So we decided this year that the tag for it is decided this year that the tag for it is decided this year that the tag for it is so after the scripture is read the the so after the scripture is read the the so after the scripture is read the the person reading it will say may this word person reading it will say may this word person reading it will say may this word of the Lord help us to pursue the truly of the Lord help us to pursue the truly of the Lord help us to pursue the truly good life in Jesus. good life in Jesus. good life in Jesus. You may be seated. And so week after You may be seated. And so week after You may be seated. And so week after week may this word of the Lord help us week may this word of the Lord help us week may this word of the Lord help us to pursue the truly good life in Jesus. to pursue the truly good life in Jesus. to pursue the truly good life in Jesus. And what you find actually is even like And what you find actually is even like And what you find actually is even like in small groups and in other places when in small groups and in other places when in small groups and in other places when someone reads the scripture, someone someone reads the scripture, someone someone reads the scripture, someone will sometimes go, "May this word of the will sometimes go, "May this word of the will sometimes go, "May this word of the Lord help us pursue the truly good life Lord help us pursue the truly good life Lord help us pursue the truly good life in Jesus." And so it actually shapes uh in Jesus." And so it actually shapes uh in Jesus." And so it actually shapes uh the way you hear the Bible and it the way you hear the Bible and it the way you hear the Bible and it reinforces something significant about reinforces something significant about reinforces something significant about it. So that will change over time. Like it. So that will change over time. Like it. So that will change over time. Like when we were preaching through the when we were preaching through the when we were preaching through the Gospel of John, which for us was a Gospel of John, which for us was a Gospel of John, which for us was a pretty long series, you know, we it was pretty long series, you know, we it was pretty long series, you know, we it was may this word of the Lord help us to uh may this word of the Lord help us to uh may this word of the Lord help us to uh see and savor Jesus, right?

see and savor Jesus, right? see and savor Jesus, right? [clears throat] And so it's, you know, [clears throat] And so it's, you know, [clears throat] And so it's, you know, the traditional one in churches is, uh, the traditional one in churches is, uh, the traditional one in churches is, uh, this is the word of the Lord. Thanks be this is the word of the Lord. Thanks be this is the word of the Lord. Thanks be to God. So people, I mean, church has to God. So people, I mean, church has to God. So people, I mean, church has done it this way forever. We just change done it this way forever. We just change done it this way forever. We just change it from time to time to help reinforce it from time to time to help reinforce it from time to time to help reinforce some stuff. some stuff. some stuff. >> Yeah. And that keeps it fresh. I uh, we >> Yeah. And that keeps it fresh. I uh, we >> Yeah. And that keeps it fresh. I uh, we do a similar thing at the end of do a similar thing at the end of do a similar thing at the end of service. So we have like, you know, the service. So we have like, you know, the service. So we have like, you know, the blessing at the end. And then what blessing at the end. And then what blessing at the end. And then what pastor always says, and, you know, it's pastor always says, and, you know, it's pastor always says, and, you know, it's a form of a benediction is, uh, you a form of a benediction is, uh, you a form of a benediction is, uh, you know, I bless you in the name of the know, I bless you in the name of the know, I bless you in the name of the father, son, and the holy spirit. Like, father, son, and the holy spirit. Like, father, son, and the holy spirit. Like, you know, go in peace sort of thing. And you know, go in peace sort of thing. And you know, go in peace sort of thing. And it's really nice knowing that like we it's really nice knowing that like we it's really nice knowing that like we always end it in the same way. I think always end it in the same way. I think always end it in the same way. I think about the way my mom taught me to pray. about the way my mom taught me to pray. about the way my mom taught me to pray. She would always end her prayers She would always end her prayers She would always end her prayers irrespective of what it was with may we irrespective of what it was with may we irrespective of what it was with may we always be mindful of the needs of always be mindful of the needs of always be mindful of the needs of others. And that's how I always end my others. And that's how I always end my others. And that's how I always end my prayers which like it's not just words. prayers which like it's not just words. prayers which like it's not just words. It is formative in the repetition and It is formative in the repetition and It is formative in the repetition and the routine and the the ritual of it the routine and the the ritual of it the routine and the the ritual of it which is really cool. Let's move to the which is really cool. Let's move to the which is really cool. Let's move to the third item. You mentioned communion. third item. You mentioned communion. third item. You mentioned communion. This is something that Ironwood does This is something that Ironwood does This is something that Ironwood does every week. And you say in this Twitter every week. And you say in this Twitter every week. And you say in this Twitter thread how amazed you are at how few thread how amazed you are at how few thread how amazed you are at how few churches do this.

churches do this. churches do this. >> Uh yeah, it seems like more and more >> Uh yeah, it seems like more and more >> Uh yeah, it seems like more and more churches do it. Uh but yeah, I am kind churches do it. Uh but yeah, I am kind churches do it. Uh but yeah, I am kind of surprised. Um especially among larger of surprised. Um especially among larger of surprised. Um especially among larger churches, uh they tend to just not do churches, uh they tend to just not do churches, uh they tend to just not do this as much and I'm not totally sure this as much and I'm not totally sure this as much and I'm not totally sure why. [snorts] Um I want to assume all why. [snorts] Um I want to assume all why. [snorts] Um I want to assume all the best motives for it, but I I I think the best motives for it, but I I I think the best motives for it, but I I I think sometimes people have asked, well, sometimes people have asked, well, sometimes people have asked, well, doesn't it get wrote? Doesn't it get doesn't it get wrote? Doesn't it get doesn't it get wrote? Doesn't it get routine? Doesn't get ordinary? And I routine? Doesn't get ordinary? And I routine? Doesn't get ordinary? And I feel like, well, only if Jesus giving feel like, well, only if Jesus giving feel like, well, only if Jesus giving you eternal life and forgiving all your you eternal life and forgiving all your you eternal life and forgiving all your sins and walking with you forever, only sins and walking with you forever, only sins and walking with you forever, only if that gets ordinary, only if that gets if that gets ordinary, only if that gets if that gets ordinary, only if that gets boring. And so, it's just been such a boring. And so, it's just been such a boring. And so, it's just been such a such a sweet reminder. Now, there's ways such a sweet reminder. Now, there's ways such a sweet reminder. Now, there's ways to do it. Sometimes it's more to do it. Sometimes it's more to do it. Sometimes it's more reflective, sometimes it's more reflective, sometimes it's more reflective, sometimes it's more celebratory. There are the weeks we celebratory. There are the weeks we celebratory. There are the weeks we don't celebrate communion are the weeks don't celebrate communion are the weeks don't celebrate communion are the weeks that we celebrate baptism. So, it's not that we celebrate baptism. So, it's not that we celebrate baptism. So, it's not necessarily every single week. Um, but necessarily every single week. Um, but necessarily every single week. Um, but yeah, that practice uh has helped. It yeah, that practice uh has helped. It yeah, that practice uh has helped. It also makes it where um some passages also makes it where um some passages also makes it where um some passages that we preach through are not they're that we preach through are not they're that we preach through are not they're connected to the gospel, but the gospel connected to the gospel, but the gospel connected to the gospel, but the gospel is a little less explicit in it. And so is a little less explicit in it. And so is a little less explicit in it. And so having a moment for communion also gives having a moment for communion also gives having a moment for communion also gives just one more time to either uh make just one more time to either uh make just one more time to either uh make sure we share the gospel very clearly or sure we share the gospel very clearly or sure we share the gospel very clearly or to reinforce the gospel in some way that to reinforce the gospel in some way that to reinforce the gospel in some way that has already been preached. And so uh has already been preached. And so uh has already been preached. And so uh yeah, it's it's just been a really yeah, it's it's just been a really yeah, it's it's just been a really precious uh practice for us.

precious uh practice for us. precious uh practice for us. >> How do you handle the elements with that >> How do you handle the elements with that >> How do you handle the elements with that many people? Do you have the uh handout many people? Do you have the uh handout many people? Do you have the uh handout where the where the where the gluten-free styrofoam crisp is on top of gluten-free styrofoam crisp is on top of gluten-free styrofoam crisp is on top of the the juice or or what are we doing the the juice or or what are we doing the the juice or or what are we doing here? here? here? >> So, I'm I'm super wonky on this, man. Um >> So, I'm I'm super wonky on this, man. Um >> So, I'm I'm super wonky on this, man. Um is uh I I don't know why, but years ago is uh I I don't know why, but years ago is uh I I don't know why, but years ago I just it really mattered to me that we I just it really mattered to me that we I just it really mattered to me that we actually had unleavened bread. So, uh, actually had unleavened bread. So, uh, actually had unleavened bread. So, uh, we buy the matzah crackers and we have a we buy the matzah crackers and we have a we buy the matzah crackers and we have a team of people come in on Saturdays and, team of people come in on Saturdays and, team of people come in on Saturdays and, um, they basically fill up these little um, they basically fill up these little um, they basically fill up these little like In-N-Out style fry trays, like In-N-Out style fry trays, like In-N-Out style fry trays, uh, that each have two plastic little uh, that each have two plastic little uh, that each have two plastic little cups and they break up the matzah cups and they break up the matzah cups and they break up the matzah crackers and put put a mozza cracker crackers and put put a mozza cracker crackers and put put a mozza cracker into the cup and then squirt the grape into the cup and then squirt the grape into the cup and then squirt the grape juice into the other cup and then uh, juice into the other cup and then uh, juice into the other cup and then uh, put those under the seats in front. And put those under the seats in front. And put those under the seats in front. And so, it's a lot of work. I mean, it's a so, it's a lot of work. I mean, it's a so, it's a lot of work. I mean, it's a lot of work on the prep side. It's a lot lot of work on the prep side. It's a lot lot of work on the prep side. It's a lot of work between services to have to of work between services to have to of work between services to have to replace it under there. We used to pass replace it under there. We used to pass replace it under there. We used to pass it before CO and then, you know, that it before CO and then, you know, that it before CO and then, you know, that got all during CO was all like, how do got all during CO was all like, how do got all during CO was all like, how do you do any of this?

you do any of this? you do any of this? >> Um, so we decided to just keep that as a >> Um, so we decided to just keep that as a >> Um, so we decided to just keep that as a thing. And so it's under the seat. And thing. And so it's under the seat. And thing. And so it's under the seat. And so we will try to, you know, what people so we will try to, you know, what people so we will try to, you know, what people would call fence the table where we say would call fence the table where we say would call fence the table where we say if you're not a follower of Christ, we'd if you're not a follower of Christ, we'd if you're not a follower of Christ, we'd love for you to watch in on this. We'd love for you to watch in on this. We'd love for you to watch in on this. We'd love for you to pray with somebody love for you to pray with somebody love for you to pray with somebody after, but know that communion is for after, but know that communion is for after, but know that communion is for people who are following Jesus. And so people who are following Jesus. And so people who are following Jesus. And so we don't want to hand it to people on we don't want to hand it to people on we don't want to hand it to people on their way in which is like kind of their way in which is like kind of their way in which is like kind of pre-inviting them to take it if they're pre-inviting them to take it if they're pre-inviting them to take it if they're not maybe even a Christian. And so it's not maybe even a Christian. And so it's not maybe even a Christian. And so it's at least it's at least an out of arm at least it's at least an out of arm at least it's at least an out of arm it's in arms length but you have to it's in arms length but you have to it's in arms length but you have to reach for it to get it. Um, and it's reach for it to get it. Um, and it's reach for it to get it. Um, and it's there and uh, yeah, that way it doesn't there and uh, yeah, that way it doesn't there and uh, yeah, that way it doesn't taste I mean it's not like matzah tastes taste I mean it's not like matzah tastes taste I mean it's not like matzah tastes incredible, but it's not [laughter] it's incredible, but it's not [laughter] it's incredible, but it's not [laughter] it's not the styrofoam uh, styrofoam thing not the styrofoam uh, styrofoam thing not the styrofoam uh, styrofoam thing and or the like I'm trying to figure out and or the like I'm trying to figure out and or the like I'm trying to figure out how to turn it upside down and peel the how to turn it upside down and peel the how to turn it upside down and peel the thing off and it's, you know, it all thing off and it's, you know, it all thing off and it's, you know, it all tastes kind of nasty anyway. Um, so tastes kind of nasty anyway. Um, so tastes kind of nasty anyway. Um, so >> yeah. No, I know because we did that on >> yeah. No, I know because we did that on >> yeah. No, I know because we did that on Sunday and my pastor uh, we did an Sunday and my pastor uh, we did an Sunday and my pastor uh, we did an inverse of the elements and he's like, inverse of the elements and he's like, inverse of the elements and he's like, "Look, you don't have to email me. I "Look, you don't have to email me. I "Look, you don't have to email me. I know we're doing it backwards." And know we're doing it backwards." And know we're doing it backwards." And there was a reason for it. Um, and so there was a reason for it. Um, and so there was a reason for it. Um, and so then we were at trunk or treat later then we were at trunk or treat later then we were at trunk or treat later that night and we're talking and he was that night and we're talking and he was that night and we're talking and he was mentioning that we did it, you know, mentioning that we did it, you know, mentioning that we did it, you know, backwards and stuff and I was like, backwards and stuff and I was like, backwards and stuff and I was like, "Yeah, like I think there's a reason why "Yeah, like I think there's a reason why "Yeah, like I think there's a reason why we have to eat the styrofoam first we have to eat the styrofoam first we have to eat the styrofoam first because we need to like wash it because we need to like wash it because we need to like wash it [laughter] down." And he's like, he's [laughter] down." And he's like, he's [laughter] down." And he's like, he's like, "Yeah, like you know, in the like, "Yeah, like you know, in the like, "Yeah, like you know, in the moment I was like that styrofoam crisp moment I was like that styrofoam crisp moment I was like that styrofoam crisp is just kind of like lingering." And he is just kind of like lingering." And he is just kind of like lingering." And he said they had to get like gluten-free said they had to get like gluten-free said they had to get like gluten-free styrofoam crisps. And I was like, "Wait, styrofoam crisps. And I was like, "Wait, styrofoam crisps. And I was like, "Wait, so you're telling me there was actually so you're telling me there was actually so you're telling me there was actually gluten in [laughter] there?" I was like, gluten in [laughter] there?" I was like, gluten in [laughter] there?" I was like, "I couldn't taste it."

"I couldn't taste it." "I couldn't taste it." >> If you say so. So, um, okay. Item four >> If you say so. So, um, okay. Item four >> If you say so. So, um, okay. Item four in church service changes that most in church service changes that most in church service changes that most should consider making. Maybe avoid the should consider making. Maybe avoid the should consider making. Maybe avoid the crisps, I don't know. Um, incorporate crisps, I don't know. Um, incorporate crisps, I don't know. Um, incorporate some other elements. We have a some other elements. We have a some other elements. We have a philosophy again, uh, called the philosophy again, uh, called the philosophy again, uh, called the creative curveball. And I asked you creative curveball. And I asked you creative curveball. And I asked you about the placement of church about the placement of church about the placement of church announcements. And it sounds like this announcements. And it sounds like this announcements. And it sounds like this is kind of coming from the same is kind of coming from the same is kind of coming from the same motivation, which is sometimes you just motivation, which is sometimes you just motivation, which is sometimes you just want to mix things up. Placement of want to mix things up. Placement of want to mix things up. Placement of announcement, incorporate another announcement, incorporate another announcement, incorporate another element, do something you typically do, element, do something you typically do, element, do something you typically do, but but but >> do it differently. >> do it differently. >> do it differently. We're doing juice first in communion. We're doing juice first in communion. We're doing juice first in communion. [laughter] Crazy. [laughter] Crazy. [laughter] Crazy. First, have you ever inverted the First, have you ever inverted the First, have you ever inverted the elements in communion, Pastor Luke? Uh elements in communion, Pastor Luke? Uh elements in communion, Pastor Luke? Uh if not, is it theologically bankrupt? if not, is it theologically bankrupt? if not, is it theologically bankrupt? And third, if we're not mixing things up And third, if we're not mixing things up And third, if we're not mixing things up there, where are we introducing new there, where are we introducing new there, where are we introducing new elements? I haven't mixed it up, but we elements? I haven't mixed it up, but we elements? I haven't mixed it up, but we did actually one time uh we we didn't did actually one time uh we we didn't did actually one time uh we we didn't fill up the the uh the juice and it fill up the the uh the juice and it fill up the the uh the juice and it [snorts] was a sermon on um that was [snorts] was a sermon on um that was [snorts] was a sermon on um that was basically going what if Jesus hadn't basically going what if Jesus hadn't basically going what if Jesus hadn't died? died? died? >> Oh, nice.

>> Oh, nice. >> Oh, nice. >> And you'd have you'd be looking at an >> And you'd have you'd be looking at an >> And you'd have you'd be looking at an empty cup and you'd be stuck with your empty cup and you'd be stuck with your empty cup and you'd be stuck with your own sin. And so that was that was the own sin. And so that was that was the own sin. And so that was that was the closest curveball we we did on that. closest curveball we we did on that. closest curveball we we did on that. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Um yeah, so but but yeah, this was just >> Um yeah, so but but yeah, this was just >> Um yeah, so but but yeah, this was just really a sense of going there's other really a sense of going there's other really a sense of going there's other things that we would like to have form things that we would like to have form things that we would like to have form people over time. So, a couple years people over time. So, a couple years people over time. So, a couple years ago, we had one year where we did the ago, we had one year where we did the ago, we had one year where we did the Nicing Creed every Sunday. Um, we picked Nicing Creed every Sunday. Um, we picked Nicing Creed every Sunday. Um, we picked the Nicing Creed because in our context, the Nicing Creed because in our context, the Nicing Creed because in our context, again, there's a lot of LDS and former again, there's a lot of LDS and former again, there's a lot of LDS and former LDS people. The Ning Creed is a little LDS people. The Ning Creed is a little LDS people. The Ning Creed is a little stronger in terms of emphasizing stronger in terms of emphasizing stronger in terms of emphasizing Trinitarian theology. And so, we uh Trinitarian theology. And so, we uh Trinitarian theology. And so, we uh decided to do that every week for a decided to do that every week for a decided to do that every week for a year. And then at the end of that year, year. And then at the end of that year, year. And then at the end of that year, we we changed it up. And so, we just we we changed it up. And so, we just we we changed it up. And so, we just have some sort of different service have some sort of different service have some sort of different service element which we decide in our service element which we decide in our service element which we decide in our service planning meetings. And we, you know, planning meetings. And we, you know, planning meetings. And we, you know, it's not exactly a rotation, but we'll it's not exactly a rotation, but we'll it's not exactly a rotation, but we'll do a creed. Uh we might pray the Lord's do a creed. Uh we might pray the Lord's do a creed. Uh we might pray the Lord's prayer. Uh we might have a testimony or prayer. Uh we might have a testimony or prayer. Uh we might have a testimony or a video or something like that. Uh a video or something like that. Uh a video or something like that. Uh sometimes we'll do a time of lament. Uh sometimes we'll do a time of lament. Uh sometimes we'll do a time of lament. Uh I think the church in general is just so I think the church in general is just so I think the church in general is just so anemic when it comes to lament. We don't anemic when it comes to lament. We don't anemic when it comes to lament. We don't have any category for this even though have any category for this even though have any category for this even though like a third of the psalms are lament. like a third of the psalms are lament. like a third of the psalms are lament. And so that time might be a responsive And so that time might be a responsive And so that time might be a responsive reading of a psalm. Uh it might be more reading of a psalm. Uh it might be more reading of a psalm. Uh it might be more of a special type song that is sung over of a special type song that is sung over of a special type song that is sung over and we go like hey if you're in a season and we go like hey if you're in a season and we go like hey if you're in a season of hurting we'd love to have you stand of hurting we'd love to have you stand of hurting we'd love to have you stand and you know just let this song wash and you know just let this song wash and you know just let this song wash over you. So it different stuff like over you. So it different stuff like over you. So it different stuff like that. Um and yeah, just changing it up that. Um and yeah, just changing it up that. Um and yeah, just changing it up over time and it it feels fresh. It over time and it it feels fresh. It over time and it it feels fresh. It shapes us in new and different ways. Um shapes us in new and different ways. Um shapes us in new and different ways. Um and it helps you not be in such a rut.

and it helps you not be in such a rut. and it helps you not be in such a rut. Luke, you mentioned CO earlier and how Luke, you mentioned CO earlier and how Luke, you mentioned CO earlier and how that kind of u evolved your communion that kind of u evolved your communion that kind of u evolved your communion practices. Uh I have some some empathy practices. Uh I have some some empathy practices. Uh I have some some empathy for that because CO kind of disrupted for that because CO kind of disrupted for that because CO kind of disrupted our practice in a similar way. Of our practice in a similar way. Of our practice in a similar way. Of course, many if not all the folks that course, many if not all the folks that course, many if not all the folks that are listening have that shared are listening have that shared are listening have that shared experience that co really um yeah experience that co really um yeah experience that co really um yeah disrupted how we worship in person at disrupted how we worship in person at disrupted how we worship in person at least for a time. um our church here in least for a time. um our church here in least for a time. um our church here in rural Niagara, we we didn't meet for for rural Niagara, we we didn't meet for for rural Niagara, we we didn't meet for for over a year in person. And so during over a year in person. And so during over a year in person. And so during that time, it gave us an opportunity to that time, it gave us an opportunity to that time, it gave us an opportunity to ask some questions of ourselves, ask some questions of ourselves, ask some questions of ourselves, primarily about how we worship in primarily about how we worship in primarily about how we worship in person. And coming out of COVID in the person. And coming out of COVID in the person. And coming out of COVID in the last five years or so now, I don't know last five years or so now, I don't know last five years or so now, I don't know how long it's been anymore, but the last how long it's been anymore, but the last how long it's been anymore, but the last handful of years, we have found since handful of years, we have found since handful of years, we have found since that disruption, some some liberation, that disruption, some some liberation, that disruption, some some liberation, some freedom, some space to do this, to some freedom, some space to do this, to some freedom, some space to do this, to to practice some new things when we to practice some new things when we to practice some new things when we gather for worship. So that every time gather for worship. So that every time gather for worship. So that every time we gather, it's not simply three songs, we gather, it's not simply three songs, we gather, it's not simply three songs, announcement, um sermon, communion, and announcement, um sermon, communion, and announcement, um sermon, communion, and blessing, but there is some more of blessing, but there is some more of blessing, but there is some more of these interactive or um embodied these interactive or um embodied these interactive or um embodied elements. And so we've done like some elements. And so we've done like some elements. And so we've done like some some guided prayer, some prayer in some guided prayer, some prayer in some guided prayer, some prayer in response. In some for some of my response. In some for some of my response. In some for some of my sermons, I've like I've cut it off after sermons, I've like I've cut it off after sermons, I've like I've cut it off after like seven or eight minutes and we have like seven or eight minutes and we have like seven or eight minutes and we have um you know I've either pass the mic um you know I've either pass the mic um you know I've either pass the mic around for like some dialogue or we'll around for like some dialogue or we'll around for like some dialogue or we'll break off into groups. We I pastor a break off into groups. We I pastor a break off into groups. We I pastor a small church, so this is it's it's a small church, so this is it's it's a small church, so this is it's it's a little bit more easier for us to to little bit more easier for us to to little bit more easier for us to to navigate this than a larger group size.

navigate this than a larger group size. navigate this than a larger group size. But sometimes we'll break off and pray But sometimes we'll break off and pray But sometimes we'll break off and pray for each other uh for half of what would for each other uh for half of what would for each other uh for half of what would have been the allotted sermon time. Um, have been the allotted sermon time. Um, have been the allotted sermon time. Um, have you found that was co kind of that have you found that was co kind of that have you found that was co kind of that flash point for you where it's like, oh, flash point for you where it's like, oh, flash point for you where it's like, oh, we we now have have been [snorts] given we we now have have been [snorts] given we we now have have been [snorts] given this opportunity to reimagine what it this opportunity to reimagine what it this opportunity to reimagine what it looks like to worship in person. looks like to worship in person. looks like to worship in person. >> Uh, I don't know that it was quite as as >> Uh, I don't know that it was quite as as >> Uh, I don't know that it was quite as as much of a of a hinge point for us, but much of a of a hinge point for us, but much of a of a hinge point for us, but it certainly I mean, you were trying to it certainly I mean, you were trying to it certainly I mean, you were trying to figure out how do we make this engaging figure out how do we make this engaging figure out how do we make this engaging for this audience in this new medium. for this audience in this new medium. for this audience in this new medium. And so that was a little bit different. And so that was a little bit different. And so that was a little bit different. you know during co we did some more like you know during co we did some more like you know during co we did some more like team teaching dialogue kinds of team teaching dialogue kinds of team teaching dialogue kinds of conversation things which has been conversation things which has been conversation things which has been something that we you know will pull out something that we you know will pull out something that we you know will pull out now from time to time especially like now from time to time especially like now from time to time especially like after a big cultural event or something after a big cultural event or something after a big cultural event or something like that we you know me and our other like that we you know me and our other like that we you know me and our other teaching pastor might do more of a team teaching pastor might do more of a team teaching pastor might do more of a team teaching kind of thing on certain teaching kind of thing on certain teaching kind of thing on certain moments. Um so yeah I mean I think part moments. Um so yeah I mean I think part moments. Um so yeah I mean I think part of what that showed you though to your of what that showed you though to your of what that showed you though to your point I love all the things you point I love all the things you point I love all the things you described is I mean what that shows you described is I mean what that shows you described is I mean what that shows you is like you just do get stuck in ruts is like you just do get stuck in ruts is like you just do get stuck in ruts and the ruts aren't bad. I mean, like, and the ruts aren't bad. I mean, like, and the ruts aren't bad. I mean, like, >> sure, >> sure, >> sure, >> these are good ruts. These are wellworn >> these are good ruts. These are wellworn >> these are good ruts. These are wellworn 2,000-y old ruts. Preach the word, 2,000-y old ruts. Preach the word, 2,000-y old ruts. Preach the word, celebrate the Lord's supper, sing songs, celebrate the Lord's supper, sing songs, celebrate the Lord's supper, sing songs, like gather with God's people. Like, like gather with God's people. Like, like gather with God's people. Like, just run the plays, man. I mean, we just run the plays, man. I mean, we just run the plays, man. I mean, we don't have to be totally innovative all don't have to be totally innovative all don't have to be totally innovative all the time. And yet, little things go a the time. And yet, little things go a the time. And yet, little things go a long way and they do disrupt some of long way and they do disrupt some of long way and they do disrupt some of that pattern in a way that in embodied that pattern in a way that in embodied that pattern in a way that in embodied practices just does form you. Um, I I practices just does form you. Um, I I practices just does form you. Um, I I think sometimes people go so far, like I think sometimes people go so far, like I think sometimes people go so far, like I know a lot of people are like super into know a lot of people are like super into know a lot of people are like super into liturgy and all that stuff and I go like liturgy and all that stuff and I go like liturgy and all that stuff and I go like they're just as worldly as everybody at they're just as worldly as everybody at they're just as worldly as everybody at a casual non-denominational church. So,

a casual non-denominational church. So, a casual non-denominational church. So, they're not silver bullets, but they're they're not silver bullets, but they're they're not silver bullets, but they're pieces of the equation that I think can pieces of the equation that I think can pieces of the equation that I think can make a difference. And I just want to make a difference. And I just want to make a difference. And I just want to expose people to a bit more of some of expose people to a bit more of some of expose people to a bit more of some of the other practices and traditions that the other practices and traditions that the other practices and traditions that this, you know, big C historic church this, you know, big C historic church this, you know, big C historic church has has had in the mix. has has had in the mix. has has had in the mix. Final item on our list, Luke, is having Final item on our list, Luke, is having Final item on our list, Luke, is having everyone who speaks into a microphone everyone who speaks into a microphone everyone who speaks into a microphone introduce themselves. Seems pretty introduce themselves. Seems pretty introduce themselves. Seems pretty self-explanatory, but obviously you self-explanatory, but obviously you self-explanatory, but obviously you cared enough to include it on here. So, cared enough to include it on here. So, cared enough to include it on here. So, I'm thinking maybe it's not as obvious I'm thinking maybe it's not as obvious I'm thinking maybe it's not as obvious as perhaps it seems. as perhaps it seems. as perhaps it seems. >> No. And I'm still trying to get our team >> No. And I'm still trying to get our team >> No. And I'm still trying to get our team to do it. [laughter] to do it. [laughter] to do it. [laughter] >> So, so I mean just to be honest, like >> So, so I mean just to be honest, like >> So, so I mean just to be honest, like these are these are things we're trying these are these are things we're trying these are these are things we're trying to do. Yeah. I there is just a thing of to do. Yeah. I there is just a thing of to do. Yeah. I there is just a thing of like you assume it's it's all part of like you assume it's it's all part of like you assume it's it's all part of welcoming people assuming there's welcoming people assuming there's welcoming people assuming there's outsiders. Um the way we approach church outsiders. Um the way we approach church outsiders. Um the way we approach church is to go this is mostly forming our is to go this is mostly forming our is to go this is mostly forming our people but we're always assuming there's people but we're always assuming there's people but we're always assuming there's guests. 1 Corinthians 14 seems to say guests. 1 Corinthians 14 seems to say guests. 1 Corinthians 14 seems to say there's always outsiders among you and there's always outsiders among you and there's always outsiders among you and and for that reason it's like people and for that reason it's like people and for that reason it's like people don't know who you are if it's their don't know who you are if it's their don't know who you are if it's their first time. And it's just a simple first time. And it's just a simple first time. And it's just a simple hospitable hospitable hospitable uh welcome thing. I don't think it needs uh welcome thing. I don't think it needs uh welcome thing. I don't think it needs to be like when you, you know, when you to be like when you, you know, when you to be like when you, you know, when you go to a concert and they're like on go to a concert and they're like on go to a concert and they're like on drums, you know, on bass. Like, I don't drums, you know, on bass. Like, I don't drums, you know, on bass. Like, I don't think you need to do that.

think you need to do that. think you need to do that. >> That's not how you're introducing your >> That's not how you're introducing your >> That's not how you're introducing your band every week. That's not what you band every week. That's not what you band every week. That's not what you meant. [laughter] meant. [laughter] meant. [laughter] >> I don't think you need that. But if it's >> I don't think you need that. But if it's >> I don't think you need that. But if it's like, hey, you know, I'm I'm Luke and like, hey, you know, I'm I'm Luke and like, hey, you know, I'm I'm Luke and this is Jenny and we're excited to lead this is Jenny and we're excited to lead this is Jenny and we're excited to lead you today. Let's sing. Like, I just you today. Let's sing. Like, I just you today. Let's sing. Like, I just think it can be as simple as that. um think it can be as simple as that. um think it can be as simple as that. um from a worship leader, someone leading from a worship leader, someone leading from a worship leader, someone leading communion, someone doing the communion, someone doing the communion, someone doing the announcements. Uh all it's just a very announcements. Uh all it's just a very announcements. Uh all it's just a very basic hospitable basic hospitable basic hospitable uh you know way to to care for people. uh you know way to to care for people. uh you know way to to care for people. And whenever I visit a church, I'm just And whenever I visit a church, I'm just And whenever I visit a church, I'm just always kind of going, "Who's that? Who's always kind of going, "Who's that? Who's always kind of going, "Who's that? Who's that? Who's [clears throat] that? Who's that? Who's [clears throat] that? Who's that? Who's [clears throat] that? Who's that?" Cuz they don't they just don't do that?" Cuz they don't they just don't do that?" Cuz they don't they just don't do it. it. it. >> Yeah. There's a young woman in our >> Yeah. There's a young woman in our >> Yeah. There's a young woman in our church, she gets the opportunity to church, she gets the opportunity to church, she gets the opportunity to speak into the microphone every once in speak into the microphone every once in speak into the microphone every once in a while. And I mentioned our church is a while. And I mentioned our church is a while. And I mentioned our church is small, you know, 65 75 people. So on small, you know, 65 75 people. So on small, you know, 65 75 people. So on most Sundays, like you really do know most Sundays, like you really do know most Sundays, like you really do know most people uh by name and she's most people uh by name and she's most people uh by name and she's belonged to our church for a long time. belonged to our church for a long time. belonged to our church for a long time. She's a she's a a very evident person in She's a she's a a very evident person in She's a she's a a very evident person in our church. Yet every time she grabs the our church. Yet every time she grabs the our church. Yet every time she grabs the mic, we don't we don't have this policy mic, we don't we don't have this policy mic, we don't we don't have this policy codified at all. Um but every time she codified at all. Um but every time she codified at all. Um but every time she grabs the mic, she says, "Hey everyone, grabs the mic, she says, "Hey everyone, grabs the mic, she says, "Hey everyone, uh like good morning. I'm Avery." And it uh like good morning. I'm Avery." And it uh like good morning. I'm Avery." And it catches me off guard because she chooses catches me off guard because she chooses catches me off guard because she chooses to do it every time. But I'm I'm to do it every time. But I'm I'm to do it every time. But I'm I'm realizing that oh, it's just like it's realizing that oh, it's just like it's realizing that oh, it's just like it's her spirit of hospitality. This is how her spirit of hospitality. This is how her spirit of hospitality. This is how she cares for people. And so she she's she cares for people. And so she she's she cares for people. And so she she's recognized that on her own and she recognized that on her own and she recognized that on her own and she embodies that well. But I mean to codify embodies that well. But I mean to codify embodies that well. But I mean to codify it as a policy, uh maybe it's not as as it as a policy, uh maybe it's not as as it as a policy, uh maybe it's not as as easy to um to install as you might easy to um to install as you might easy to um to install as you might [laughter] you might assume. Luke's [laughter] you might assume. Luke's [laughter] you might assume. Luke's still seems to be struggling with it still seems to be struggling with it still seems to be struggling with it with his team. Uh but yeah, to codify with his team. Uh but yeah, to codify with his team. Uh but yeah, to codify this as a policy may be um yeah, it's an this as a policy may be um yeah, it's an this as a policy may be um yeah, it's an act of hospitality and may be really act of hospitality and may be really act of hospitality and may be really beneficial to to a a church, a community beneficial to to a a church, a community beneficial to to a a church, a community of any size. When I said it was obvious, of any size. When I said it was obvious, of any size. When I said it was obvious, I think the reason is and you know this I think the reason is and you know this I think the reason is and you know this is the Phoenix Connection formerly of

is the Phoenix Connection formerly of is the Phoenix Connection formerly of Seattle. I remember being a young man Seattle. I remember being a young man Seattle. I remember being a young man and being handed a sermon from someone and being handed a sermon from someone and being handed a sermon from someone and said, "Hey, you should listen to and said, "Hey, you should listen to and said, "Hey, you should listen to this sermon um you know about marriage. this sermon um you know about marriage. this sermon um you know about marriage. is from this guy named Mark Driscoll. is from this guy named Mark Driscoll. is from this guy named Mark Driscoll. And I remember the message starts and he And I remember the message starts and he And I remember the message starts and he goes, "Hi, I'm Pastor Mark, one of the goes, "Hi, I'm Pastor Mark, one of the goes, "Hi, I'm Pastor Mark, one of the pastors here." And I was like, "Oh, pastors here." And I was like, "Oh, pastors here." And I was like, "Oh, bars. [laughter] Oh, what is that? I bars. [laughter] Oh, what is that? I bars. [laughter] Oh, what is that? I love that." Uh, and I remember ever love that." Uh, and I remember ever love that." Uh, and I remember ever since hearing that I was like, "Oh, since hearing that I was like, "Oh, since hearing that I was like, "Oh, yeah." Like you should introduce yeah." Like you should introduce yeah." Like you should introduce yourself. Um, final question for you, yourself. Um, final question for you, yourself. Um, final question for you, >> Luke. Um, Luke D. Simmons on Twitter. >> Luke. Um, Luke D. Simmons on Twitter. >> Luke. Um, Luke D. Simmons on Twitter. >> Amazing follow. Churches ask me, should >> Amazing follow. Churches ask me, should >> Amazing follow. Churches ask me, should we be on Twitter? X. My answer to them we be on Twitter? X. My answer to them we be on Twitter? X. My answer to them is always, I cannot really think of a is always, I cannot really think of a is always, I cannot really think of a single church that's excelling on single church that's excelling on single church that's excelling on Twitter. It's not really made for that. Twitter. It's not really made for that. Twitter. It's not really made for that. If your leader, if your senior leader If your leader, if your senior leader If your leader, if your senior leader has a passion for it, like Derwin Gray has a passion for it, like Derwin Gray has a passion for it, like Derwin Gray does, like Glenn Pacquium does, then does, like Glenn Pacquium does, then does, like Glenn Pacquium does, then there absolutely can be value on there. there absolutely can be value on there. there absolutely can be value on there. And I would absolutely put you, Luke, in And I would absolutely put you, Luke, in And I would absolutely put you, Luke, in that camp of someone that clearly has a that camp of someone that clearly has a that camp of someone that clearly has a passion for that specific platform. I'm passion for that specific platform. I'm passion for that specific platform. I'm assuming you're doing most, if not all, assuming you're doing most, if not all, assuming you're doing most, if not all, of your own posting. Um, I would love to of your own posting. Um, I would love to of your own posting. Um, I would love to just hear a little bit more about why just hear a little bit more about why just hear a little bit more about why you care about being active there and you care about being active there and you care about being active there and maybe a little behind the scenes on the maybe a little behind the scenes on the maybe a little behind the scenes on the writing process. You're doing a really writing process. You're doing a really writing process. You're doing a really good job being consistent publishing all good job being consistent publishing all good job being consistent publishing all the time and there's no fluff. It's all the time and there's no fluff. It's all the time and there's no fluff. It's all high value substantive. Yeah. So, tell high value substantive. Yeah. So, tell high value substantive. Yeah. So, tell us a little bit more about that.

us a little bit more about that. us a little bit more about that. >> Yeah. Thank you. So, uh my full-time >> Yeah. Thank you. So, uh my full-time >> Yeah. Thank you. So, uh my full-time thing is uh pastoring here at Iowa thing is uh pastoring here at Iowa thing is uh pastoring here at Iowa Church, but I also have a a side Church, but I also have a a side Church, but I also have a a side resource ministry called Faithful and resource ministry called Faithful and resource ministry called Faithful and Fruitful, and that [snorts] helps coach Fruitful, and that [snorts] helps coach Fruitful, and that [snorts] helps coach pastors. We do preaching cohorts, live pastors. We do preaching cohorts, live pastors. We do preaching cohorts, live lead pastor intensives, uh online lead pastor intensives, uh online lead pastor intensives, uh online training days. We've got about 10,000 or training days. We've got about 10,000 or training days. We've got about 10,000 or so pastors that are, you know, regularly so pastors that are, you know, regularly so pastors that are, you know, regularly getting our communication and engaging getting our communication and engaging getting our communication and engaging with the content we're doing at with the content we're doing at with the content we're doing at different points. And so, um, what I different points. And so, um, what I different points. And so, um, what I figured out was most of the people in figured out was most of the people in figured out was most of the people in our church are not really on Twitter. our church are not really on Twitter. our church are not really on Twitter. They're mostly on Facebook. They're They're mostly on Facebook. They're They're mostly on Facebook. They're mostly on Instagram. They're in other mostly on Instagram. They're in other mostly on Instagram. They're in other spots, but a lot of the pastors that I spots, but a lot of the pastors that I spots, but a lot of the pastors that I interact with are on Twitter. And so, a interact with are on Twitter. And so, a interact with are on Twitter. And so, a number of years ago, I decided, well, number of years ago, I decided, well, number of years ago, I decided, well, I'm going to focus my energy on Twitter I'm going to focus my energy on Twitter I'm going to focus my energy on Twitter to communicate with pastors. So, I'm to communicate with pastors. So, I'm to communicate with pastors. So, I'm always assuming that there are some always assuming that there are some always assuming that there are some people from our church that listen in. people from our church that listen in. people from our church that listen in. Uh, I think you're all you're a fool if Uh, I think you're all you're a fool if Uh, I think you're all you're a fool if you think anything you post online is you think anything you post online is you think anything you post online is not going to be known by everybody not going to be known by everybody not going to be known by everybody someday. So like it's all there to be someday. So like it's all there to be someday. So like it's all there to be seen. I'm not trying to hide it, but but seen. I'm not trying to hide it, but but seen. I'm not trying to hide it, but but I'm really not communicating on Twitter I'm really not communicating on Twitter I'm really not communicating on Twitter to prim like my audience in mind is not to prim like my audience in mind is not to prim like my audience in mind is not our church. It's mostly to other our church. It's mostly to other our church. It's mostly to other pastors. And so that's how I decided to pastors. And so that's how I decided to pastors. And so that's how I decided to do that. When I post on Instagram, it do that. When I post on Instagram, it do that. When I post on Instagram, it tends to be more like personal stuff and tends to be more like personal stuff and tends to be more like personal stuff and assuming that more people in our church assuming that more people in our church assuming that more people in our church are seeing it and a couple pastors might are seeing it and a couple pastors might are seeing it and a couple pastors might be engaged with that. So that's how I've be engaged with that. So that's how I've be engaged with that. So that's how I've approached that. And so that's why my approached that. And so that's why my approached that. And so that's why my content on Twitter is disproportionately content on Twitter is disproportionately content on Twitter is disproportionately aimed at pastors and churches and the aimed at pastors and churches and the aimed at pastors and churches and the kinds of posts that we've just talked kinds of posts that we've just talked kinds of posts that we've just talked through even here today. So that's through even here today. So that's through even here today. So that's [snorts] how I approach it mostly. I [snorts] how I approach it mostly. I [snorts] how I approach it mostly. I mean, like I said with Faithful and mean, like I said with Faithful and mean, like I said with Faithful and Fruitful, I'm coaching other pastors.

Fruitful, I'm coaching other pastors. Fruitful, I'm coaching other pastors. I'm engaged with people. And so a lot of I'm engaged with people. And so a lot of I'm engaged with people. And so a lot of what I post is just stuff I get what I post is just stuff I get what I post is just stuff I get questions about from other pastors questions about from other pastors questions about from other pastors >> or things that I think, oh, this is this >> or things that I think, oh, this is this >> or things that I think, oh, this is this is something that doesn't make sense to is something that doesn't make sense to is something that doesn't make sense to a lot of people. Let's try to figure out a lot of people. Let's try to figure out a lot of people. Let's try to figure out how to help it make sense. So, I feel how to help it make sense. So, I feel how to help it make sense. So, I feel like if I get a question from someone in like if I get a question from someone in like if I get a question from someone in person in real life, there's a good person in real life, there's a good person in real life, there's a good chance other people could be interested chance other people could be interested chance other people could be interested in that same thing. Um, and so I'm in that same thing. Um, and so I'm in that same thing. Um, and so I'm trying to do that and and put it out trying to do that and and put it out trying to do that and and put it out there. And I'm also just trying to be a there. And I'm also just trying to be a there. And I'm also just trying to be a a different not a different, but a a different not a different, but a a different not a different, but a helpful voice. I just I don't want to helpful voice. I just I don't want to helpful voice. I just I don't want to fight about dumb crap. And there's a lot fight about dumb crap. And there's a lot fight about dumb crap. And there's a lot of that on Twitter. And there's a lot of of that on Twitter. And there's a lot of of that on Twitter. And there's a lot of uh uh uh >> Couldn't be me. Couldn't be me. >> Couldn't be me. Couldn't be me. >> Couldn't be me. Couldn't be me. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. So, I just feel like um I'm not >> Yeah. So, I just feel like um I'm not >> Yeah. So, I just feel like um I'm not interested in that. I mean, the the interested in that. I mean, the the interested in that. I mean, the the ministry I I do is called faithful and ministry I I do is called faithful and ministry I I do is called faithful and fruitful. And it's like that's what I'm fruitful. And it's like that's what I'm fruitful. And it's like that's what I'm trying to embody is that we can be trying to embody is that we can be trying to embody is that we can be faithful and we can be effective. We can faithful and we can be effective. We can faithful and we can be effective. We can honor God and we can grow, you know, honor God and we can grow, you know, honor God and we can grow, you know, that sort of stuff. And so, I'm trying that sort of stuff. And so, I'm trying that sort of stuff. And so, I'm trying to embody that presence and model that to embody that presence and model that to embody that presence and model that even for other pastors. So, my ministry even for other pastors. So, my ministry even for other pastors. So, my ministry on Twitter is really more to pastors and on Twitter is really more to pastors and on Twitter is really more to pastors and [snorts] uh it's been super fun to [snorts] uh it's been super fun to [snorts] uh it's been super fun to engage with guys and and women who are engage with guys and and women who are engage with guys and and women who are in ministry and who are um you know, in ministry and who are um you know, in ministry and who are um you know, trying to do stuff well. And so that's trying to do stuff well. And so that's trying to do stuff well. And so that's that's why our paths have crossed so that's why our paths have crossed so that's why our paths have crossed so many different times as um you know the many different times as um you know the many different times as um you know the stuff you do is exactly the stuff that's stuff you do is exactly the stuff that's stuff you do is exactly the stuff that's helped us and that I'm trying to help helped us and that I'm trying to help helped us and that I'm trying to help other uh churches with as well. So other uh churches with as well. So other uh churches with as well. So >> again, Luke DSimmons on Twitter, >> again, Luke DSimmons on Twitter, >> again, Luke DSimmons on Twitter, faithfulandfruitful.com.

faithfulandfruitful.com. faithfulandfruitful.com. If you want to get any of the resources If you want to get any of the resources If you want to get any of the resources that Pastor Luke and his team are that Pastor Luke and his team are that Pastor Luke and his team are publishing, I would highly encourage you publishing, I would highly encourage you publishing, I would highly encourage you to get connected there. And and Luke, to get connected there. And and Luke, to get connected there. And and Luke, just personally to you, like we're I'm just personally to you, like we're I'm just personally to you, like we're I'm so grateful for the ministry that you're so grateful for the ministry that you're so grateful for the ministry that you're doing and how faithful it has been. And doing and how faithful it has been. And doing and how faithful it has been. And I see that faithfulness reflected in how I see that faithfulness reflected in how I see that faithfulness reflected in how consistently your content comes across consistently your content comes across consistently your content comes across my screen. And every time I see it, what my screen. And every time I see it, what my screen. And every time I see it, what I've what I've come to glean from that I've what I've come to glean from that I've what I've come to glean from that with how frequent it's been, it's like, with how frequent it's been, it's like, with how frequent it's been, it's like, ah man, like this guy really cares and ah man, like this guy really cares and ah man, like this guy really cares and he's really putting in like the effort he's really putting in like the effort he's really putting in like the effort and this wisdom only comes from like and this wisdom only comes from like and this wisdom only comes from like being in the trenches. And that's what being in the trenches. And that's what being in the trenches. And that's what we always say to people like, "Hey, what we always say to people like, "Hey, what we always say to people like, "Hey, what should I do about like social ministry? should I do about like social ministry? should I do about like social ministry? How should I get involved in digital How should I get involved in digital How should I get involved in digital ministry?" And I say, "Hey, here's some ministry?" And I say, "Hey, here's some ministry?" And I say, "Hey, here's some great content as your starting point to great content as your starting point to great content as your starting point to give you a framework." But you only give you a framework." But you only give you a framework." But you only really learn when you're in the trenches really learn when you're in the trenches really learn when you're in the trenches of ministry in this world. Uh because of ministry in this world. Uh because of ministry in this world. Uh because it's still so new and some of the things it's still so new and some of the things it's still so new and some of the things you can only really get from like just you can only really get from like just you can only really get from like just doing it. It's like, hey, you can read doing it. It's like, hey, you can read doing it. It's like, hey, you can read about how to do a deadlift, but like you about how to do a deadlift, but like you about how to do a deadlift, but like you really got to pick up the bar and like really got to pick up the bar and like really got to pick up the bar and like feel how like it lifts under your weight feel how like it lifts under your weight feel how like it lifts under your weight and like your uh biomechanics and all and like your uh biomechanics and all and like your uh biomechanics and all that. So, thank you for like being a that. So, thank you for like being a that. So, thank you for like being a lead pastor who cares about these things lead pastor who cares about these things lead pastor who cares about these things and consistently shares information and consistently shares information and consistently shares information about that because coming from that about that because coming from that about that because coming from that perspective and that like mantle and perspective and that like mantle and perspective and that like mantle and place of authority, it does have like place of authority, it does have like place of authority, it does have like different weight and carries a different different weight and carries a different different weight and carries a different uh yeah headiness to it than someone uh yeah headiness to it than someone uh yeah headiness to it than someone like us who is kind of like pointing up like us who is kind of like pointing up like us who is kind of like pointing up and saying, "Hey, here's something to and saying, "Hey, here's something to and saying, "Hey, here's something to consider lead pastor." So, really consider lead pastor." So, really consider lead pastor." So, really appreciate uh everything that you do appreciate uh everything that you do appreciate uh everything that you do truly.

truly. truly. >> Well, thanks Brady and thanks Alex. I I >> Well, thanks Brady and thanks Alex. I I >> Well, thanks Brady and thanks Alex. I I I love what you guys are doing. I I I love what you guys are doing. I I I love what you guys are doing. I I think it's sad that pastors aren't I think it's sad that pastors aren't I think it's sad that pastors aren't I mean, obviously you have a huge audience mean, obviously you have a huge audience mean, obviously you have a huge audience cuz people do listen to you, but that cuz people do listen to you, but that cuz people do listen to you, but that anyone would dismiss you because uh anyone would dismiss you because uh anyone would dismiss you because uh you're not exactly in the trenches in you're not exactly in the trenches in you're not exactly in the trenches in the exact same way is is so prideful and the exact same way is is so prideful and the exact same way is is so prideful and foolish. Um and I just go like, man, I I foolish. Um and I just go like, man, I I foolish. Um and I just go like, man, I I think everyone should be listening to think everyone should be listening to think everyone should be listening to what you guys are doing. Um and what you guys are doing. Um and what you guys are doing. Um and especially to this interview. No, I'm especially to this interview. No, I'm especially to this interview. No, I'm just kidding. [laughter] just kidding. [laughter] just kidding. [laughter] >> Yeah, we should cut it off now because >> Yeah, we should cut it off now because >> Yeah, we should cut it off now because any more compliments going each other's any more compliments going each other's any more compliments going each other's way. People are like, "Okay, skip, skip, way. People are like, "Okay, skip, skip, way. People are like, "Okay, skip, skip, plus 30 seconds." Thank you everyone for plus 30 seconds." Thank you everyone for plus 30 seconds." Thank you everyone for your time, attention, and trust. We will your time, attention, and trust. We will your time, attention, and trust. We will talk to you next Wednesday. We're doing talk to you next Wednesday. We're doing talk to you next Wednesday. We're doing the annual thing where October is the annual thing where October is the annual thing where October is beautiful until Halloween and then it beautiful until Halloween and then it beautiful until Halloween and then it all goes all goes all goes >> perfect these last few days. Literally >> perfect these last few days. Literally >> perfect these last few days. Literally perfect and then Halloween it's like how perfect and then Halloween it's like how perfect and then Halloween it's like how would you 95% torrential downpour. would you 95% torrential downpour. would you 95% torrential downpour. >> I have notes in my Halloween note to >> I have notes in my Halloween note to >> I have notes in my Halloween note to know how much candy to buy and like know how much candy to buy and like know how much candy to buy and like [laughter] when things came of like how [laughter] when things came of like how [laughter] when things came of like how bad the weather is all the time. bad the weather is all the time. bad the weather is all the time. >> Last year was an improvement. It was >> Last year was an improvement. It was >> Last year was an improvement. It was rainy and windy but it was warm.

rainy and windy but it was warm. rainy and windy but it was warm. >> Mhm. But that was the improvement. Like >> Mhm. But that was the improvement. Like >> Mhm. But that was the improvement. Like >> every year prior was rain, wind, and >> every year prior was rain, wind, and >> every year prior was rain, wind, and cold.