Brutally Honest Truths for Millennials in Church

Not a millennial? Keep scrolling. The Not a millennial? Keep scrolling. The old people in the room need to have a old people in the room need to have a old people in the room need to have a chat. In all seriousness, there is a chat. In all seriousness, there is a chat. In all seriousness, there is a changing of the guard happening in changing of the guard happening in changing of the guard happening in ministry right now. And if you're a ministry right now. And if you're a ministry right now. And if you're a millennial and you're not careful, you millennial and you're not careful, you millennial and you're not careful, you are doomed to make the same mistakes the are doomed to make the same mistakes the are doomed to make the same mistakes the previous generation did. Let's dive in. previous generation did. Let's dive in. previous generation did. Let's dive in. Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. Regrettably, it is always by my co-host. Regrettably, it is always by my co-host. Regrettably, it is the Millennial Minister, Alexander the Millennial Minister, Alexander the Millennial Minister, Alexander Mills. Hello. Hello. Believe it or not, Mills. Hello. Hello. Believe it or not, Mills. Hello. Hello. Believe it or not, I was doing the prep for the show this I was doing the prep for the show this I was doing the prep for the show this morning, and this all started exactly a morning, and this all started exactly a morning, and this all started exactly a year ago today. Wow. We have touched on year ago today. Wow. We have touched on year ago today. Wow. We have touched on the topic we are about to dive deep into the topic we are about to dive deep into the topic we are about to dive deep into in so many different episodes over the in so many different episodes over the in so many different episodes over the past year. So much so that when I sat past year. So much so that when I sat past year. So much so that when I sat down to prep pods this week, I was like, down to prep pods this week, I was like, down to prep pods this week, I was like, ah, you know what? We need to dedicate ah, you know what? We need to dedicate ah, you know what? We need to dedicate an entire episode to this. A year ago an entire episode to this. A year ago an entire episode to this. A year ago today, I published a reel on Instagram today, I published a reel on Instagram today, I published a reel on Instagram with the title Scary New Design Trend. with the title Scary New Design Trend. with the title Scary New Design Trend. It was scary. That video has now about It was scary. That video has now about It was scary. That video has now about 20,000 likes, uh, 350,000 views. One of 20,000 likes, uh, 350,000 views. One of 20,000 likes, uh, 350,000 views. One of our better performing posts over the our better performing posts over the our better performing posts over the last year. The purpose of that video was last year. The purpose of that video was last year. The purpose of that video was to highlight a new stock photo site that to highlight a new stock photo site that to highlight a new stock photo site that had come across my feed called had come across my feed called had come across my feed called dupephos.com. The site has a tagline dupephos.com. The site has a tagline dupephos.com. The site has a tagline that reads relevant royaltyfree imagery.

that reads relevant royaltyfree imagery. that reads relevant royaltyfree imagery. The keyword being relevant. The entire The keyword being relevant. The entire The keyword being relevant. The entire purpose of this stock photo site that purpose of this stock photo site that purpose of this stock photo site that was built and first came across my feed was built and first came across my feed was built and first came across my feed through the influence of a person from through the influence of a person from through the influence of a person from Gen Z was, hey, the previous era's stock Gen Z was, hey, the previous era's stock Gen Z was, hey, the previous era's stock photo sites are not at all authentic or photo sites are not at all authentic or photo sites are not at all authentic or genuine to what imagery should look genuine to what imagery should look genuine to what imagery should look like. And so if you want stuff that like. And so if you want stuff that like. And so if you want stuff that doesn't look contrived, this is the doesn't look contrived, this is the doesn't look contrived, this is the stock photo site for you. It's relevant stock photo site for you. It's relevant stock photo site for you. It's relevant implying implying implying that the previous stock photo sites were that the previous stock photo sites were that the previous stock photo sites were irrelevant. It was clear to me at that irrelevant. It was clear to me at that irrelevant. It was clear to me at that moment what was happening because we moment what was happening because we moment what was happening because we went through the exact same thing when went through the exact same thing when went through the exact same thing when we as millennials me at age 34 Alex at we as millennials me at age 34 Alex at we as millennials me at age 34 Alex at age 32 came of age. We had this new age 32 came of age. We had this new age 32 came of age. We had this new stock photo site called Unsplash because stock photo site called Unsplash because stock photo site called Unsplash because the previous era of stock photo sites the previous era of stock photo sites the previous era of stock photo sites iStock photo.net let's say Getty Images iStock photo.net let's say Getty Images iStock photo.net let's say Getty Images right was all really glossy. You would right was all really glossy. You would right was all really glossy. You would have like these sets that were obviously have like these sets that were obviously have like these sets that were obviously prepared. People were setting up studio prepared. People were setting up studio prepared. People were setting up studio lights lit from everywhere. Yeah.

lights lit from everywhere. Yeah. lights lit from everywhere. Yeah. Highkey lighting, perfect like a sitcom. Highkey lighting, perfect like a sitcom. Highkey lighting, perfect like a sitcom. Everyone was having their makeup done Everyone was having their makeup done Everyone was having their makeup done and we were like, man, this doesn't look and we were like, man, this doesn't look and we were like, man, this doesn't look at all like the real world. And that was at all like the real world. And that was at all like the real world. And that was what inspired and influenced what inspired and influenced what inspired and influenced Unsplash.com, which was like our images Unsplash.com, which was like our images Unsplash.com, which was like our images were going to look cinematic. So, you were going to look cinematic. So, you were going to look cinematic. So, you would take a photo, no makeup, no fancy would take a photo, no makeup, no fancy would take a photo, no makeup, no fancy lights, and then you'd bring it into lights, and then you'd bring it into lights, and then you'd bring it into Lightroom, and you would like make color Lightroom, and you would like make color Lightroom, and you would like make color adjustments, and you'd add a little adjustments, and you'd add a little adjustments, and you'd add a little vignette, and you would do all of these vignette, and you would do all of these vignette, and you would do all of these things to make it look great, but things to make it look great, but things to make it look great, but without it feeling like it was this big without it feeling like it was this big without it feeling like it was this big production. The great irony is that what production. The great irony is that what production. The great irony is that what we considered genuine and authentic, we considered genuine and authentic, we considered genuine and authentic, relevant even to the previous irrelevant relevant even to the previous irrelevant relevant even to the previous irrelevant era of stock photo imagery, now that's era of stock photo imagery, now that's era of stock photo imagery, now that's been flipped. And Gen Z is saying the been flipped. And Gen Z is saying the been flipped. And Gen Z is saying the way to make stock imagery relevant is to way to make stock imagery relevant is to way to make stock imagery relevant is to just take a picture with your phone. No just take a picture with your phone. No just take a picture with your phone. No editing in post. Editing in post is editing in post. Editing in post is editing in post. Editing in post is genuine, sorry, is not genuine. Adding genuine, sorry, is not genuine. Adding genuine, sorry, is not genuine. Adding vignettes, a color profile. And we're vignettes, a color profile. And we're vignettes, a color profile. And we're going to show on the screen right now going to show on the screen right now going to show on the screen right now two different photos of a waterfall. The two different photos of a waterfall. The two different photos of a waterfall. The first photo is our waterfall. This is first photo is our waterfall. This is first photo is our waterfall. This is the millennial waterfall. It's the the millennial waterfall. It's the the millennial waterfall. It's the Unsplash waterfall. And it looks great Unsplash waterfall. And it looks great Unsplash waterfall. And it looks great to me. It has a vignette. The saturation to me. It has a vignette. The saturation to me. It has a vignette. The saturation and the contrast is great. There's a and the contrast is great. There's a and the contrast is great. There's a color profile. Clearly, they are uh color profile. Clearly, they are uh color profile. Clearly, they are uh highlighting certain colors in the photo highlighting certain colors in the photo highlighting certain colors in the photo that are there. They're desaturating that are there. They're desaturating that are there. They're desaturating other ones to bring together this other ones to bring together this other ones to bring together this cinematic type image. And now you can cinematic type image. And now you can cinematic type image. And now you can see the Gen Z waterfall. To my eyes, see the Gen Z waterfall. To my eyes, see the Gen Z waterfall. To my eyes, this looks worse. It's just a phone this looks worse. It's just a phone this looks worse. It's just a phone photo, which to me is like that doesn't photo, which to me is like that doesn't photo, which to me is like that doesn't look nearly as good, but to the eyes of look nearly as good, but to the eyes of look nearly as good, but to the eyes of Gen Z, it is relevant. And you know, the Gen Z, it is relevant. And you know, the Gen Z, it is relevant. And you know, the disparity between the generations here

disparity between the generations here disparity between the generations here is really contrasted by the fact that is really contrasted by the fact that is really contrasted by the fact that both of these photos evoke feelings. So both of these photos evoke feelings. So both of these photos evoke feelings. So that that first photo of the waterfall that that first photo of the waterfall that that first photo of the waterfall that feels that feels that feels um authentic to me. It feels beautiful um authentic to me. It feels beautiful um authentic to me. It feels beautiful to me. I Hey, all out myself. I use to me. I Hey, all out myself. I use to me. I Hey, all out myself. I use Unsplash every single week. I still do. Unsplash every single week. I still do. Unsplash every single week. I still do. And that second photo of the waterfall And that second photo of the waterfall And that second photo of the waterfall has no feeling to me. But Gen Z, the the has no feeling to me. But Gen Z, the the has no feeling to me. But Gen Z, the the the generation that's coming up behind the generation that's coming up behind the generation that's coming up behind us is saying something completely us is saying something completely us is saying something completely different. They're saying that Unsplash different. They're saying that Unsplash different. They're saying that Unsplash photo that that that really curated photo that that that really curated photo that that that really curated image um although it's not lit with image um although it's not lit with image um although it's not lit with studio lighting, it feels um yeah, it studio lighting, it feels um yeah, it studio lighting, it feels um yeah, it feels curated. It feels set up. But feels curated. It feels set up. But feels curated. It feels set up. But these iPhone photos, they feel true. these iPhone photos, they feel true. these iPhone photos, they feel true. They feel genuine. They feel authentic. They feel genuine. They feel authentic. They feel genuine. They feel authentic. They feel in the moment. You'll see that They feel in the moment. You'll see that They feel in the moment. You'll see that if you go to if you go to if you go to dupos.com, those photos are all just dupos.com, those photos are all just dupos.com, those photos are all just taken with iPhones or with with mobile taken with iPhones or with with mobile taken with iPhones or with with mobile phones. And that's like that's what phones. And that's like that's what phones. And that's like that's what Jenzie is saying is this is what feels Jenzie is saying is this is what feels Jenzie is saying is this is what feels to use the the tagline from dupe photos. to use the the tagline from dupe photos. to use the the tagline from dupe photos. This is what feels relevant to us. And This is what feels relevant to us. And This is what feels relevant to us. And so just based off those feelings, what so just based off those feelings, what so just based off those feelings, what those what those photos make us feel those what those photos make us feel those what those photos make us feel comparatively to somebody else younger comparatively to somebody else younger comparatively to somebody else younger than us, you really see the generational than us, you really see the generational than us, you really see the generational divide there in that contrast. And this divide there in that contrast. And this divide there in that contrast. And this is really the crux of what we want to is really the crux of what we want to is really the crux of what we want to talk about in this episode. When you can talk about in this episode. When you can talk about in this episode. When you can look at two different images and one age look at two different images and one age look at two different images and one age group can say that's genuine and this is group can say that's genuine and this is group can say that's genuine and this is not and then the generation that comes not and then the generation that comes not and then the generation that comes after them y says the exact opposite.

after them y says the exact opposite. after them y says the exact opposite. We're not talking here about like We're not talking here about like We're not talking here about like missional differences. We're not talking missional differences. We're not talking missional differences. We're not talking here about like different here about like different here about like different interpretations of scripture. We're interpretations of scripture. We're interpretations of scripture. We're talking about creative culture. And this talking about creative culture. And this talking about creative culture. And this kind of leads into big idea number one kind of leads into big idea number one kind of leads into big idea number one for this episode. We've got five big for this episode. We've got five big for this episode. We've got five big ideas. Big idea number one is that there ideas. Big idea number one is that there ideas. Big idea number one is that there are two types of culture. There's are two types of culture. There's are two types of culture. There's creative culture and then there's creative culture and then there's creative culture and then there's capitalist culture. Creative culture capitalist culture. Creative culture capitalist culture. Creative culture would be things that include fashion, would be things that include fashion, would be things that include fashion, music, aesthetic, internet trends, music, aesthetic, internet trends, music, aesthetic, internet trends, slang. This is the culture that for our slang. This is the culture that for our slang. This is the culture that for our duration of existence as millennials, we duration of existence as millennials, we duration of existence as millennials, we have been driving the trends with. We have been driving the trends with. We have been driving the trends with. We have been the ones that have been going have been the ones that have been going have been the ones that have been going to our senior leaders and saying, "Hey, to our senior leaders and saying, "Hey, to our senior leaders and saying, "Hey, this is a creative project that we'd this is a creative project that we'd this is a creative project that we'd like to do." And our senior leaders have like to do." And our senior leaders have like to do." And our senior leaders have been like, "Well, we've always done it been like, "Well, we've always done it been like, "Well, we've always done it this way." And what you're posing is a this way." And what you're posing is a this way." And what you're posing is a little bit strange and to us we've little bit strange and to us we've little bit strange and to us we've always been like what do you mean always been like what do you mean always been like what do you mean strange like this is like this makes so strange like this is like this makes so strange like this is like this makes so much sense this is like how can you not much sense this is like how can you not much sense this is like how can you not see it this is clear as day and then see it this is clear as day and then see it this is clear as day and then there's capitalist culture and there's capitalist culture and there's capitalist culture and capitalist culture really includes capitalist culture really includes capitalist culture really includes anything that's like bought and sold by anything that's like bought and sold by anything that's like bought and sold by big business so like think about big business so like think about big business so like think about commercials think about uh feature films commercials think about uh feature films commercials think about uh feature films restaurants and what we have seen happen restaurants and what we have seen happen restaurants and what we have seen happen to us as millennials is we have to us as millennials is we have to us as millennials is we have graduated from being the key influencers graduated from being the key influencers graduated from being the key influencers of creative culture and now we are the of creative culture and now we are the of creative culture and now we are the key target audience the recipients of key target audience the recipients of key target audience the recipients of capitalist culture, right? And I can see capitalist culture, right? And I can see capitalist culture, right? And I can see this clearly because when I remember my this clearly because when I remember my this clearly because when I remember my time in my teens and my 20s, I would time in my teens and my 20s, I would time in my teens and my 20s, I would like go to restaurants or I would see like go to restaurants or I would see like go to restaurants or I would see commercials and no one would be my age commercials and no one would be my age commercials and no one would be my age in a commercial, right? No one who was in a commercial, right? No one who was in a commercial, right? No one who was like a big movie star was my age. Films like a big movie star was my age. Films like a big movie star was my age. Films would have like even music drops and I'd

would have like even music drops and I'd would have like even music drops and I'd be like my mom be like, "Oh, great. That be like my mom be like, "Oh, great. That be like my mom be like, "Oh, great. That that's this artist." And like I don't that's this artist." And like I don't that's this artist." And like I don't know who that artist is. Like I know know who that artist is. Like I know know who that artist is. Like I know that song because like it's a classic that song because like it's a classic that song because like it's a classic song. I don't remember when it came out. song. I don't remember when it came out. song. I don't remember when it came out. And now like they'll have like a needle And now like they'll have like a needle And now like they'll have like a needle drop in a movie and I'll be like, "Oh, I drop in a movie and I'll be like, "Oh, I drop in a movie and I'll be like, "Oh, I remember when that song like came out." remember when that song like came out." remember when that song like came out." Yes. And we now in our chief primary Yes. And we now in our chief primary Yes. And we now in our chief primary buying years as 30somes with kids and buying years as 30somes with kids and buying years as 30somes with kids and mortgages and uh husbands and wives, we mortgages and uh husbands and wives, we mortgages and uh husbands and wives, we are now the recipients and the target are now the recipients and the target are now the recipients and the target audience for like commercials. I'm like, audience for like commercials. I'm like, audience for like commercials. I'm like, "Oh, that that guy's my age. Wait, he "Oh, that that guy's my age. Wait, he "Oh, that that guy's my age. Wait, he needs a prescription for needs a prescription for needs a prescription for what?" And then I'll look at like the what?" And then I'll look at like the what?" And then I'll look at like the trends in fashion like, "Man, those trends in fashion like, "Man, those trends in fashion like, "Man, those pants are really baggy. That seems pants are really baggy. That seems pants are really baggy. That seems strange." I I'll meet with like a a lead strange." I I'll meet with like a a lead strange." I I'll meet with like a a lead pastor of a church and then they'll like pastor of a church and then they'll like pastor of a church and then they'll like walk away like we meet for lunch, they walk away like we meet for lunch, they walk away like we meet for lunch, they walk away like, "Wow, those are some walk away like, "Wow, those are some walk away like, "Wow, those are some skinny pants on a 40-year-old." Like, skinny pants on a 40-year-old." Like, skinny pants on a 40-year-old." Like, "Oh, right." Because like that's how old "Oh, right." Because like that's how old "Oh, right." Because like that's how old we are right now. And the difference we are right now. And the difference we are right now. And the difference between the two is really buying power between the two is really buying power between the two is really buying power because when you're younger, you don't because when you're younger, you don't because when you're younger, you don't have the ability with your income to buy have the ability with your income to buy have the ability with your income to buy things that the capitalist culture wants things that the capitalist culture wants things that the capitalist culture wants to sell you. And so they're not really to sell you. And so they're not really to sell you. And so they're not really targeting to you. So what do we do? We targeting to you. So what do we do? We targeting to you. So what do we do? We influence things that have no money influence things that have no money influence things that have no money related to them whatsoever. We can related to them whatsoever. We can related to them whatsoever. We can influence slang. These are the words influence slang. These are the words influence slang. These are the words that we use now. You use those words. We that we use now. You use those words. We that we use now. You use those words. We don't use those words anymore. We use don't use those words anymore. We use don't use those words anymore. We use these words. How how are you able to these words. How how are you able to these words. How how are you able to make that decision? Because the it's make that decision? Because the it's make that decision? Because the it's free. Yeah. And we're young and young is free. Yeah. And we're young and young is free. Yeah. And we're young and young is cool and old is not. You're old. We're cool and old is not. You're old. We're cool and old is not. You're old. We're young. We decide. The big idea here is young. We decide. The big idea here is young. We decide. The big idea here is like, okay, millennials, we need to like, okay, millennials, we need to like, okay, millennials, we need to understand that this transition is understand that this transition is understand that this transition is happening. Let's be honest, it's already happening. Let's be honest, it's already happening. Let's be honest, it's already taken place. But like it has become so

taken place. But like it has become so taken place. But like it has become so stark and obvious to me that we have stark and obvious to me that we have stark and obvious to me that we have gone from this previous era where we gone from this previous era where we gone from this previous era where we were to this new era where we are now. were to this new era where we are now. were to this new era where we are now. And there are of course um dangers that And there are of course um dangers that And there are of course um dangers that come from that. And this is evergreen, come from that. And this is evergreen, come from that. And this is evergreen, right? It's not unique to our right? It's not unique to our right? It's not unique to our generation. This Jenzi screwed just so generation. This Jenzi screwed just so generation. This Jenzi screwed just so they know. Like this this handover of of they know. Like this this handover of of they know. Like this this handover of of creative influence, creative power has creative influence, creative power has creative influence, creative power has always existed. I wonder um because you always existed. I wonder um because you always existed. I wonder um because you and I are kind of in the middle of the and I are kind of in the middle of the and I are kind of in the middle of the millennial generation. We're not on the millennial generation. We're not on the millennial generation. We're not on the elder end or the or the the the you know elder end or the or the the the you know elder end or the or the the the you know complete opposite on on the youngest complete opposite on on the youngest complete opposite on on the youngest end. We're not on the on either border. end. We're not on the on either border. end. We're not on the on either border. Um but we are just kind of entering into Um but we are just kind of entering into Um but we are just kind of entering into our mid-30s. I wonder if that line of our mid-30s. I wonder if that line of our mid-30s. I wonder if that line of delineation that that 30-year-old mark delineation that that 30-year-old mark delineation that that 30-year-old mark has always been kind of the precipice of has always been kind of the precipice of has always been kind of the precipice of this this handing over of the the this this handing over of the the this this handing over of the the proverbial baton or if it's just when proverbial baton or if it's just when proverbial baton or if it's just when we're experiencing it. Uh but surely we're experiencing it. Uh but surely we're experiencing it. Uh but surely it's it's something you and I at this it's it's something you and I at this it's it's something you and I at this age have been feeling um you know in the age have been feeling um you know in the age have been feeling um you know in the last handful of years but now we can last handful of years but now we can last handful of years but now we can just see like oh yeah we are not we we just see like oh yeah we are not we we just see like oh yeah we are not we we are getting our our fashion information are getting our our fashion information are getting our our fashion information from folks who are younger than us who from folks who are younger than us who from folks who are younger than us who are telling us what's cool and what's are telling us what's cool and what's are telling us what's cool and what's not. Um you know I'm getting chastised not. Um you know I'm getting chastised not. Um you know I'm getting chastised in my kitchen last week for using in my kitchen last week for using in my kitchen last week for using certain phrases by my 15-year-old nephew certain phrases by my 15-year-old nephew certain phrases by my 15-year-old nephew because uncle we don't use those because uncle we don't use those because uncle we don't use those anymore. Um, so we've been feeling it anymore. Um, so we've been feeling it anymore. Um, so we've been feeling it kind of um, philosophically or kind of um, philosophically or kind of um, philosophically or perceiving it philosophically for some perceiving it philosophically for some perceiving it philosophically for some time, but now certainly feeling it time, but now certainly feeling it time, but now certainly feeling it experientially. And it's a very strange experientially. And it's a very strange experientially. And it's a very strange feeling. It's disorienting because when feeling. It's disorienting because when feeling. It's disorienting because when you're young, you don't think you're young, you don't think you're young, you don't think consciously like, oh, we're driving consciously like, oh, we're driving consciously like, oh, we're driving creative culture, right? Because it's creative culture, right? Because it's creative culture, right? Because it's all you've known. And so it's like, all you've known. And so it's like, all you've known. And so it's like, yeah, like this is the music that I like

yeah, like this is the music that I like yeah, like this is the music that I like and the music that I like is on the and the music that I like is on the and the music that I like is on the charts. And then you get older, you're charts. And then you get older, you're charts. And then you get older, you're like, the music that I like is not on like, the music that I like is not on like, the music that I like is not on the charts. Oh, so there was a moment in the charts. Oh, so there was a moment in the charts. Oh, so there was a moment in time where my generation was driving time where my generation was driving time where my generation was driving creative culture. We've exited that creative culture. We've exited that creative culture. We've exited that moment and now we're the targets of like moment and now we're the targets of like moment and now we're the targets of like prescription drug commercials. Yeah. And prescription drug commercials. Yeah. And prescription drug commercials. Yeah. And interest rates. That's fascinating. interest rates. That's fascinating. interest rates. That's fascinating. Yeah. Like oh all these things that I Yeah. Like oh all these things that I Yeah. Like oh all these things that I would remember hearing and being like, would remember hearing and being like, would remember hearing and being like, man, that's just like going way over my man, that's just like going way over my man, that's just like going way over my head. Like I understand those words like head. Like I understand those words like head. Like I understand those words like oh that's acronym means this. I'm aware oh that's acronym means this. I'm aware oh that's acronym means this. I'm aware of that. Very strange. And this leads of that. Very strange. And this leads of that. Very strange. And this leads into big idea number two which is that into big idea number two which is that into big idea number two which is that we all have to come to terms as we all have to come to terms as we all have to come to terms as millennials with this fact. Okay. you're millennials with this fact. Okay. you're millennials with this fact. Okay. you're no longer driving creative trends. What no longer driving creative trends. What no longer driving creative trends. What that does mean though is we are that does mean though is we are that does mean though is we are responsible for responding to trends. responsible for responding to trends. responsible for responding to trends. And how this intersects with what we And how this intersects with what we And how this intersects with what we talk about on this show specifically talk about on this show specifically talk about on this show specifically Yeah. is that digital ministry and Yeah. is that digital ministry and Yeah. is that digital ministry and creative ministry exists almost creative ministry exists almost creative ministry exists almost completely within the realm of creative completely within the realm of creative completely within the realm of creative culture. Right. So, you know, if you are culture. Right. So, you know, if you are culture. Right. So, you know, if you are a lead pastor and you're responsible a lead pastor and you're responsible a lead pastor and you're responsible for, you know, pastoral care and for, you know, pastoral care and for, you know, pastoral care and preaching and leading a team, like there preaching and leading a team, like there preaching and leading a team, like there are some things that we're talking about are some things that we're talking about are some things that we're talking about today that will intersect there. But if today that will intersect there. But if today that will intersect there. But if you're in the day-to-day of like you're in the day-to-day of like you're in the day-to-day of like creating graphics and using photography creating graphics and using photography creating graphics and using photography and videography and writing captions and and videography and writing captions and and videography and writing captions and copywriting, like that's right in the copywriting, like that's right in the copywriting, like that's right in the overlap of creative culture. And so you overlap of creative culture. And so you overlap of creative culture. And so you can like look around and suddenly be can like look around and suddenly be can like look around and suddenly be like, man, what they're calling good like, man, what they're calling good like, man, what they're calling good design now sure feels like nasty to me.

design now sure feels like nasty to me. design now sure feels like nasty to me. And that is something that is really And that is something that is really And that is something that is really tricky to come to terms with. The key tricky to come to terms with. The key tricky to come to terms with. The key here though is to not repeat the here though is to not repeat the here though is to not repeat the mistakes that the generation before us mistakes that the generation before us mistakes that the generation before us sometimes fell into. And to be clear, sometimes fell into. And to be clear, sometimes fell into. And to be clear, our generation will repeat these our generation will repeat these our generation will repeat these mistakes. Exactly. But if you're mistakes. Exactly. But if you're mistakes. Exactly. But if you're listening to this, my call to you is, listening to this, my call to you is, listening to this, my call to you is, hey, don't become the creative leader or hey, don't become the creative leader or hey, don't become the creative leader or the senior leader in church that when the senior leader in church that when the senior leader in church that when younger people come to you and propose younger people come to you and propose younger people come to you and propose things, you slough it off because you're things, you slough it off because you're things, you slough it off because you're like, why would we do that? Like that's like, why would we do that? Like that's like, why would we do that? Like that's not how we've done it before. We've not how we've done it before. We've not how we've done it before. We've always done it this way. And you're kind always done it this way. And you're kind always done it this way. And you're kind of still living in that era where you of still living in that era where you of still living in that era where you are kind of like the taste maker because are kind of like the taste maker because are kind of like the taste maker because we're not the taste makers anymore. The we're not the taste makers anymore. The we're not the taste makers anymore. The reality of that means we're probably reality of that means we're probably reality of that means we're probably gonna be like we might brisk at what is gonna be like we might brisk at what is gonna be like we might brisk at what is considered taste now because it should considered taste now because it should considered taste now because it should be uncomfortable to us. Creative culture be uncomfortable to us. Creative culture be uncomfortable to us. Creative culture shifts and the shift is almost always in shifts and the shift is almost always in shifts and the shift is almost always in the other direction from what was the other direction from what was the other direction from what was popular before. Meaning you're almost popular before. Meaning you're almost popular before. Meaning you're almost certainly going to feel a certain type certainly going to feel a certain type certainly going to feel a certain type of way that's not positive about what is of way that's not positive about what is of way that's not positive about what is now on trend. Yeah. I I I just read this now on trend. Yeah. I I I just read this now on trend. Yeah. I I I just read this phrase this week in a book I'm reading phrase this week in a book I'm reading phrase this week in a book I'm reading that it's very simple that says um what that it's very simple that says um what that it's very simple that says um what goes unnamed often goes unnoticed. And goes unnamed often goes unnoticed. And goes unnamed often goes unnoticed. And so for folks who are listening to this so for folks who are listening to this so for folks who are listening to this show who are like who are are serving show who are like who are are serving show who are like who are are serving their churches in this way at least their churches in this way at least their churches in this way at least listening to this conversation between listening to this conversation between listening to this conversation between you and I today hopefully will serve to you and I today hopefully will serve to you and I today hopefully will serve to name this this generational um evolution name this this generational um evolution name this this generational um evolution so that you can notice it notice it so that you can notice it notice it so that you can notice it notice it within yourself and within your team so within yourself and within your team so within yourself and within your team so that you don't end up being the prickly that you don't end up being the prickly that you don't end up being the prickly pastor who's just like yeah like we've pastor who's just like yeah like we've pastor who's just like yeah like we've never done it that way before. And that

never done it that way before. And that never done it that way before. And that puts the finger right on the heart of puts the finger right on the heart of puts the finger right on the heart of this entire conversation, which is the this entire conversation, which is the this entire conversation, which is the motivation for naming this at all, which motivation for naming this at all, which motivation for naming this at all, which is not for vanity. Not so that you are is not for vanity. Not so that you are is not for vanity. Not so that you are wearing what's always in style or not so wearing what's always in style or not so wearing what's always in style or not so that you're just using the the that you're just using the the that you're just using the the vernacular that the kids are using vernacular that the kids are using vernacular that the kids are using because often times that comes across as because often times that comes across as because often times that comes across as quite cringe. But no, there's a quite cringe. But no, there's a quite cringe. But no, there's a missional value to this, which is we we missional value to this, which is we we missional value to this, which is we we want to name this and be aware of it so want to name this and be aware of it so want to name this and be aware of it so that we can reach people online with that we can reach people online with that we can reach people online with this this eternal truth, this story, this this eternal truth, this story, this this eternal truth, this story, this gospel message of Jesus Christ. this gospel message of Jesus Christ. this gospel message of Jesus Christ. Yeah. And when we get to big idea four Yeah. And when we get to big idea four Yeah. And when we get to big idea four and five, we're going to get into and five, we're going to get into and five, we're going to get into specific values that you can keep top of specific values that you can keep top of specific values that you can keep top of mind to help you navigate this. We'll mind to help you navigate this. We'll mind to help you navigate this. We'll get into the mission behind it. Big idea get into the mission behind it. Big idea get into the mission behind it. Big idea number three, we just briefly touched number three, we just briefly touched number three, we just briefly touched on. Millennials are about to repeat the on. Millennials are about to repeat the on. Millennials are about to repeat the mistakes we chastise our senior leaders mistakes we chastise our senior leaders mistakes we chastise our senior leaders for a decade ago, but we'll make excuses for a decade ago, but we'll make excuses for a decade ago, but we'll make excuses for it this time is what I want to start for it this time is what I want to start for it this time is what I want to start with because that feeling is still fresh with because that feeling is still fresh with because that feeling is still fresh in our mind. We are still young enough in our mind. We are still young enough in our mind. We are still young enough to remember what it was like to like to remember what it was like to like to remember what it was like to like propose something and then then be like propose something and then then be like propose something and then then be like one that doesn't belong in church or two one that doesn't belong in church or two one that doesn't belong in church or two that expression needs to be dramatically that expression needs to be dramatically that expression needs to be dramatically changed if you want to even bring it changed if you want to even bring it changed if you want to even bring it into church. Like we know what that was into church. Like we know what that was into church. Like we know what that was like. We are going to repeat those same like. We are going to repeat those same like. We are going to repeat those same mistakes, but when we when it when it mistakes, but when we when it when it mistakes, but when we when it when it we're confronted by it, we'll say to we're confronted by it, we'll say to we're confronted by it, we'll say to ourselves, well, this time it's ourselves, well, this time it's ourselves, well, this time it's different, right? But all that will have different, right? But all that will have different, right? But all that will have happened is that we'll have gained fresh happened is that we'll have gained fresh happened is that we'll have gained fresh perspective on what it's like to now perspective on what it's like to now perspective on what it's like to now span multiple eras when previously we span multiple eras when previously we span multiple eras when previously we only knew what it was like to be in the only knew what it was like to be in the only knew what it was like to be in the one era. Yeah. This is another example one era. Yeah. This is another example one era. Yeah. This is another example of this. I was talking with a pastor and

of this. I was talking with a pastor and of this. I was talking with a pastor and he was roughly our age. We were talking he was roughly our age. We were talking he was roughly our age. We were talking about these same ideas and he told me about these same ideas and he told me about these same ideas and he told me he's like, "You know what's coming he's like, "You know what's coming he's like, "You know what's coming back?" And I was like, "What?" He's like back?" And I was like, "What?" He's like back?" And I was like, "What?" He's like plants on stage at church. And I thought plants on stage at church. And I thought plants on stage at church. And I thought to myself, that is perhaps the very best to myself, that is perhaps the very best to myself, that is perhaps the very best example I can even think about. Like I example I can even think about. Like I example I can even think about. Like I devoted my first 5 years of serving in devoted my first 5 years of serving in devoted my first 5 years of serving in church to getting all of the plants off church to getting all of the plants off church to getting all of the plants off the stage. I knew I couldn't do it all the stage. I knew I couldn't do it all the stage. I knew I couldn't do it all at once cuz there were so many. So it at once cuz there were so many. So it at once cuz there were so many. So it took me about 5 years to get them all took me about 5 years to get them all took me about 5 years to get them all off. You're telling me I got to put them off. You're telling me I got to put them off. You're telling me I got to put them back? There are certain trends that are back? There are certain trends that are back? There are certain trends that are so extreme that we push back against so extreme that we push back against so extreme that we push back against them in equally extreme ways. Yeah. This them in equally extreme ways. Yeah. This them in equally extreme ways. Yeah. This is why like skinny jeans, like skintight is why like skinny jeans, like skintight is why like skinny jeans, like skintight jeans, it's hard to imagine them coming jeans, it's hard to imagine them coming jeans, it's hard to imagine them coming back within like 10, 15, 20 years back within like 10, 15, 20 years back within like 10, 15, 20 years because we're in a widele era. No, because we're in a widele era. No, because we're in a widele era. No, because they were so intense, right? because they were so intense, right? because they were so intense, right? That everyone was like, "What were we That everyone was like, "What were we That everyone was like, "What were we thinking?" I think I I equate skinny thinking?" I think I I equate skinny thinking?" I think I I equate skinny jeans to when I would be in high school jeans to when I would be in high school jeans to when I would be in high school and I would walk up to like the previous and I would walk up to like the previous and I would walk up to like the previous graduation classes like in the 80s and graduation classes like in the 80s and graduation classes like in the 80s and the '90s and I'd see these insane the '90s and I'd see these insane the '90s and I'd see these insane mullets, right? What were they doing? mullets, right? What were they doing? mullets, right? What were they doing? Why did everyone have this one hairstyle Why did everyone have this one hairstyle Why did everyone have this one hairstyle and how did it get so extreme? Usually and how did it get so extreme? Usually and how did it get so extreme? Usually trends are like inoffensive. But every trends are like inoffensive. But every trends are like inoffensive. But every so often we have a trend that is so so often we have a trend that is so so often we have a trend that is so extreme that the push back against it is extreme that the push back against it is extreme that the push back against it is equally extreme. And that was plants on equally extreme. And that was plants on equally extreme. And that was plants on stage. Every single church had a stage stage. Every single church had a stage stage. Every single church had a stage covered in plants. And we were like, covered in plants. And we were like, covered in plants. And we were like, "What is this? Why are these fake plants "What is this? Why are these fake plants "What is this? Why are these fake plants everywhere? This is gross." And then we everywhere? This is gross." And then we everywhere? This is gross." And then we went the exact opposite way. We removed went the exact opposite way. We removed went the exact opposite way. We removed them entirely. It's now been like 20 them entirely. It's now been like 20 them entirely. It's now been like 20 years, 30 years. And now Gen Z is years, 30 years. And now Gen Z is years, 30 years. And now Gen Z is looking at our decor and they're like, looking at our decor and they're like, looking at our decor and they're like, "Why is everything millennial gray? Can "Why is everything millennial gray? Can "Why is everything millennial gray? Can we get some life in here?" Like you seen we get some life in here?" Like you seen we get some life in here?" Like you seen this church, Eden Church in Houston. If

this church, Eden Church in Houston. If this church, Eden Church in Houston. If you look them up on Instagram, Eden you look them up on Instagram, Eden you look them up on Instagram, Eden Church Houston, it's it's literally in a Church Houston, it's it's literally in a Church Houston, it's it's literally in a garden. They're like plants. How about garden. They're like plants. How about garden. They're like plants. How about we did nothing but plants? Except I we did nothing but plants? Except I we did nothing but plants? Except I think some of those are real. That's think some of those are real. That's think some of those are real. That's pretty The aesthetic there is pretty pretty The aesthetic there is pretty pretty The aesthetic there is pretty nice. And that's the point. When you're nice. And that's the point. When you're nice. And that's the point. When you're aware of the fact that you are so aware of the fact that you are so aware of the fact that you are so impressionable, impressionable, impressionable, you're able to like approach a trend you're able to like approach a trend you're able to like approach a trend that you used to hate with a sober mind that you used to hate with a sober mind that you used to hate with a sober mind and go, "Okay, surely there's a version and go, "Okay, surely there's a version and go, "Okay, surely there's a version of this that is cringe." Generations because one generation will Generations because one generation will say, "We care about this, this, and say, "We care about this, this, and say, "We care about this, this, and this." By nature, that means you're this." By nature, that means you're this." By nature, that means you're neglecting this, this, and that. And neglecting this, this, and that. And neglecting this, this, and that. And then the next generation will come and then the next generation will come and then the next generation will come and say, "Hey, you know that thing you say, "Hey, you know that thing you say, "Hey, you know that thing you neglected? There's actually something neglected? There's actually something neglected? There's actually something cool about it, and here's this cool about it, and here's this cool about it, and here's this expression of it that you actually expression of it that you actually expression of it that you actually didn't know existed, and it's really didn't know existed, and it's really didn't know existed, and it's really awesome." And so, you're like, "Wow, awesome." And so, you're like, "Wow, awesome." And so, you're like, "Wow, that's a great version of that. Sounds that's a great version of that. Sounds that's a great version of that. Sounds like maybe I came into this when I was like maybe I came into this when I was like maybe I came into this when I was really only um exposed to the really only um exposed to the really only um exposed to the counterfeit version, which is kind of counterfeit version, which is kind of counterfeit version, which is kind of gross, but this version is actually gross, but this version is actually gross, but this version is actually really beautiful. And then you have to really beautiful. And then you have to really beautiful. And then you have to look inward and go, "Oh, is everything I look inward and go, "Oh, is everything I look inward and go, "Oh, is everything I believed a lie?"

believed a lie?" believed a lie?" And I think that's what's so And I think that's what's so And I think that's what's so disorienting about this because it disorienting about this because it disorienting about this because it really causes you to look internally and really causes you to look internally and really causes you to look internally and be like, "Oh my goodness, if I believed be like, "Oh my goodness, if I believed be like, "Oh my goodness, if I believed that, does that mean I should also not that, does that mean I should also not that, does that mean I should also not believe this?" And it's much easier for believe this?" And it's much easier for believe this?" And it's much easier for us as leaders to just be like, "Look, us as leaders to just be like, "Look, us as leaders to just be like, "Look, this is how we do it. Okay, this works. this is how we do it. Okay, this works. this is how we do it. Okay, this works. Trust me, the generation before us had a Trust me, the generation before us had a Trust me, the generation before us had a lot wrong with church and millennials lot wrong with church and millennials lot wrong with church and millennials came in and we introduced a lot of good came in and we introduced a lot of good came in and we introduced a lot of good and we corrected a lot of the previous and we corrected a lot of the previous and we corrected a lot of the previous mistakes. You're welcome. So, if you mistakes. You're welcome. So, if you mistakes. You're welcome. So, if you think that now you're about to critique think that now you're about to critique think that now you're about to critique the mistakes we made, I've got another the mistakes we made, I've got another the mistakes we made, I've got another thing coming. Well, hey, if you are thing coming. Well, hey, if you are thing coming. Well, hey, if you are feeling disoriented uh in this feeling disoriented uh in this feeling disoriented uh in this wilderness, this is a perfect part in wilderness, this is a perfect part in wilderness, this is a perfect part in this conversation to like get practical this conversation to like get practical this conversation to like get practical and talk about maybe some values to help and talk about maybe some values to help and talk about maybe some values to help guide you through this once you name guide you through this once you name guide you through this once you name this and realize, oh, this is happening. this and realize, oh, this is happening. this and realize, oh, this is happening. How do I navigate this? We've got some How do I navigate this? We've got some How do I navigate this? We've got some values for you, right? It's not just values for you, right? It's not just values for you, right? It's not just good enough to go, okay, I'm listening good enough to go, okay, I'm listening good enough to go, okay, I'm listening to Brad and Alex. What they're saying to Brad and Alex. What they're saying to Brad and Alex. What they're saying makes sense. This is concerning. I've makes sense. This is concerning. I've makes sense. This is concerning. I've had to pull over on the side of the had to pull over on the side of the had to pull over on the side of the road. Big idea number four. We need road. Big idea number four. We need road. Big idea number four. We need values to help us navigate this new era. values to help us navigate this new era. values to help us navigate this new era. So, I've got three here that I've So, I've got three here that I've So, I've got three here that I've written for me. If you feel like they written for me. If you feel like they written for me. If you feel like they apply to you, great. Don't feel like you apply to you, great. Don't feel like you apply to you, great. Don't feel like you have to take these on for yourself. For have to take these on for yourself. For have to take these on for yourself. For me, value number one, I never want to me, value number one, I never want to me, value number one, I never want to stop learning or adapting. There's a stop learning or adapting. There's a stop learning or adapting. There's a difference between being the person that difference between being the person that difference between being the person that is like, "Hello, fellow kids. and the is like, "Hello, fellow kids. and the is like, "Hello, fellow kids. and the person who's wearing clothes from like person who's wearing clothes from like person who's wearing clothes from like 20 years ago. Yeah. And I think like I 20 years ago. Yeah. And I think like I 20 years ago. Yeah. And I think like I want to like strike the middle ground want to like strike the middle ground want to like strike the middle ground where I don't I don't want to wear where I don't I don't want to wear where I don't I don't want to wear skintight jeans for the rest of my life skintight jeans for the rest of my life skintight jeans for the rest of my life because that's what I wore when I was because that's what I wore when I was because that's what I wore when I was 18. I also don't feel compelled to like

18. I also don't feel compelled to like 18. I also don't feel compelled to like get the hair that like comes over the get the hair that like comes over the get the hair that like comes over the forehead because that's what Gen Z is forehead because that's what Gen Z is forehead because that's what Gen Z is doing. Like that. So I never want to doing. Like that. So I never want to doing. Like that. So I never want to stop learning or adopting. But to be stop learning or adopting. But to be stop learning or adopting. But to be clear, that does not mean that I'm like clear, that does not mean that I'm like clear, that does not mean that I'm like a culture vulture for something that is a culture vulture for something that is a culture vulture for something that is not mine. Sure. It's like I can I can not mine. Sure. It's like I can I can not mine. Sure. It's like I can I can appreciate the culture. I can learn from appreciate the culture. I can learn from appreciate the culture. I can learn from it. And I don't want to be closed off to it. And I don't want to be closed off to it. And I don't want to be closed off to it. And I I I want to like realize about it. And I I I want to like realize about it. And I I I want to like realize about myself that as I get older, pushing myself that as I get older, pushing myself that as I get older, pushing myself to embrace things that are myself to embrace things that are myself to embrace things that are different that I've been previously different that I've been previously different that I've been previously closed off to is going to be a lot more closed off to is going to be a lot more closed off to is going to be a lot more challenging than it was when I was challenging than it was when I was challenging than it was when I was younger. Yeah. And this leads into value younger. Yeah. And this leads into value younger. Yeah. And this leads into value number two, which is that nostalgia is a number two, which is that nostalgia is a number two, which is that nostalgia is a lie. And I think the best way to lie. And I think the best way to lie. And I think the best way to illustrate this is that it does not illustrate this is that it does not illustrate this is that it does not matter what type of music is popular matter what type of music is popular matter what type of music is popular when you are 13 through 21. By the time when you are 13 through 21. By the time when you are 13 through 21. By the time you hit your 30s, you will say they you hit your 30s, you will say they you hit your 30s, you will say they don't make music like that anymore. And don't make music like that anymore. And don't make music like that anymore. And if we are just being honest and we go if we are just being honest and we go if we are just being honest and we go back to the music that was topping the back to the music that was topping the back to the music that was topping the charts when Kesha and Pitbull and charts when Kesha and Pitbull and charts when Kesha and Pitbull and Rihanna were around, it's like, okay, Rihanna were around, it's like, okay, Rihanna were around, it's like, okay, Rihanna made some good music. What was Rihanna made some good music. What was Rihanna made some good music. What was Pit Bull doing there? And then you hear Pit Bull doing there? And then you hear Pit Bull doing there? And then you hear like people come on you're like no but like people come on you're like no but like people come on you're like no but this verse though they don't make music this verse though they don't make music this verse though they don't make music like this anymore and there's and there like this anymore and there's and there like this anymore and there's and there look we made fun of people in the moment look we made fun of people in the moment look we made fun of people in the moment and yet like it comes on and we're like and yet like it comes on and we're like and yet like it comes on and we're like ah dal ah dal ah dal yes because what happens is the things yes because what happens is the things yes because what happens is the things in creative culture that are taking in creative culture that are taking in creative culture that are taking place during your formative years and place during your formative years and place during your formative years and they've done studies on this so this is they've done studies on this so this is they've done studies on this so this is not like just like some I tried I tried not like just like some I tried I tried not like just like some I tried I tried to find one cuz there was one I read to find one cuz there was one I read to find one cuz there was one I read last year that pointed at the age 17 last year that pointed at the age 17 last year that pointed at the age 17 which is like they narrowed it down which is like they narrowed it down which is like they narrowed it down which is like it's it's that year when

which is like it's it's that year when which is like it's it's that year when you look back and it's like yep they you look back and it's like yep they you look back and it's like yep they don't music like this anymore. And it's don't music like this anymore. And it's don't music like this anymore. And it's just it's a false equivalency, right? just it's a false equivalency, right? just it's a false equivalency, right? It's just like, no, these are your most It's just like, no, these are your most It's just like, no, these are your most formative years. And the nostalgia is is formative years. And the nostalgia is is formative years. And the nostalgia is is emotive and in in ways that that other emotive and in in ways that that other emotive and in in ways that that other experiences you have as you get older experiences you have as you get older experiences you have as you get older aren't. And so I I tried to find I aren't. And so I I tried to find I aren't. And so I I tried to find I couldn't, but uh to cite it properly, couldn't, but uh to cite it properly, couldn't, but uh to cite it properly, but you're right that this has been but you're right that this has been but you're right that this has been thoroughly studied and and it's just a thoroughly studied and and it's just a thoroughly studied and and it's just a just a sociological thing that that that just a sociological thing that that that just a sociological thing that that that we that we navigate. And and to what I we that we navigate. And and to what I we that we navigate. And and to what I said earlier, like if we can if we can said earlier, like if we can if we can said earlier, like if we can if we can notice it and name it, then we can just notice it and name it, then we can just notice it and name it, then we can just we can acknowledge it for what it is. we can acknowledge it for what it is. we can acknowledge it for what it is. nostalgia, but also acknowledge that nostalgia, but also acknowledge that nostalgia, but also acknowledge that it's not objectively true that Follow it's not objectively true that Follow it's not objectively true that Follow Boy is the best music to have ever been Boy is the best music to have ever been Boy is the best music to have ever been written and or performed. That being written and or performed. That being written and or performed. That being said, could the white boys get back to said, could the white boys get back to said, could the white boys get back to making some music like that? Seriously, making some music like that? Seriously, making some music like that? Seriously, value number one, I never want to start value number one, I never want to start value number one, I never want to start learning or stop learning or adapting. learning or stop learning or adapting. learning or stop learning or adapting. Value two, nostalgia is a lie, which Value two, nostalgia is a lie, which Value two, nostalgia is a lie, which leads to value number three, I will leads to value number three, I will leads to value number three, I will overvalue what is familiar and overvalue what is familiar and overvalue what is familiar and comfortable. You have to understand the comfortable. You have to understand the comfortable. You have to understand the default state that you're coming from. default state that you're coming from. default state that you're coming from. We all believe that we have a sober We all believe that we have a sober We all believe that we have a sober perspective on the world in front of us perspective on the world in front of us perspective on the world in front of us and a lot of the times that we do. But and a lot of the times that we do. But and a lot of the times that we do. But in creative culture, recognizing that in creative culture, recognizing that in creative culture, recognizing that when you were 17 is what you will always when you were 17 is what you will always when you were 17 is what you will always think was the best. Yeah. Irrespective think was the best. Yeah. Irrespective think was the best. Yeah. Irrespective of its objective qualities or merit of its objective qualities or merit of its objective qualities or merit means that you probably will never see means that you probably will never see means that you probably will never see some things like this with a sober mind.

some things like this with a sober mind. some things like this with a sober mind. You will always think slim fit that You will always think slim fit that You will always think slim fit that seems better than baggy fit. And it seems better than baggy fit. And it seems better than baggy fit. And it doesn't matter about what's true or not. doesn't matter about what's true or not. doesn't matter about what's true or not. You need to understand your own You need to understand your own You need to understand your own predisposition. And if you know that predisposition. And if you know that predisposition. And if you know that you're going to come at any creative you're going to come at any creative you're going to come at any creative thing with that predisposition, then you thing with that predisposition, then you thing with that predisposition, then you can know, okay, I need to basically can know, okay, I need to basically can know, okay, I need to basically recalibrate every feeling that I have recalibrate every feeling that I have recalibrate every feeling that I have about this in light of the fact that I'm about this in light of the fact that I'm about this in light of the fact that I'm probably not seeing it soberly. It's probably not seeing it soberly. It's probably not seeing it soberly. It's like if you have a scale at home that like if you have a scale at home that like if you have a scale at home that you know is like 5 lb lighter or 5 lbs you know is like 5 lb lighter or 5 lbs you know is like 5 lb lighter or 5 lbs heavier. You see it and you adjust in heavier. You see it and you adjust in heavier. You see it and you adjust in your mind. Or if you see that clock your mind. Or if you see that clock your mind. Or if you see that clock that's on your stove and you know that that's on your stove and you know that that's on your stove and you know that it's 4 minutes off from your phone and it's 4 minutes off from your phone and it's 4 minutes off from your phone and your phone is objectively the true time, your phone is objectively the true time, your phone is objectively the true time, you look and you always know, okay, I you look and you always know, okay, I you look and you always know, okay, I got to adjust 5 minutes on that clock. got to adjust 5 minutes on that clock. got to adjust 5 minutes on that clock. You have to do the same thing if every You have to do the same thing if every You have to do the same thing if every time you come to a creative thing and time you come to a creative thing and time you come to a creative thing and you go, oh yeah, oh that's that's you go, oh yeah, oh that's that's you go, oh yeah, oh that's that's normal. So don't feel like, oh, there's normal. So don't feel like, oh, there's normal. So don't feel like, oh, there's something wrong with me. You just have something wrong with me. You just have something wrong with me. You just have to recalibrate your perspective. Totally to recalibrate your perspective. Totally to recalibrate your perspective. Totally acknowledging that the bias exists and acknowledging that the bias exists and acknowledging that the bias exists and then adjusting for the bias. And this then adjusting for the bias. And this then adjusting for the bias. And this translates, you know, into so many translates, you know, into so many translates, you know, into so many different expressions of creative different expressions of creative different expressions of creative ministry, whether it's what you choose ministry, whether it's what you choose ministry, whether it's what you choose to do with your church website, which we to do with your church website, which we to do with your church website, which we all know is your virtual front door.

all know is your virtual front door. all know is your virtual front door. More folks are walking through your More folks are walking through your More folks are walking through your virtual front door to check out your virtual front door to check out your virtual front door to check out your church for the first time, um, than ever church for the first time, um, than ever church for the first time, um, than ever will walk through your your physical will walk through your your physical will walk through your your physical doors for the first time, they're going doors for the first time, they're going doors for the first time, they're going to have an experience with you online to have an experience with you online to have an experience with you online first. So whether it's what you do with first. So whether it's what you do with first. So whether it's what you do with your website or your social accounts, your website or your social accounts, your website or your social accounts, your Instagram account, what have you, your Instagram account, what have you, your Instagram account, what have you, it's it's all of these creative it's it's all of these creative it's it's all of these creative expressions um that are telling the expressions um that are telling the expressions um that are telling the story of who your church is and what you story of who your church is and what you story of who your church is and what you believe about the story of Jesus Christ. believe about the story of Jesus Christ. believe about the story of Jesus Christ. Um and so as leaders who are aging in Um and so as leaders who are aging in Um and so as leaders who are aging in our positions, of some folks listening our positions, of some folks listening our positions, of some folks listening to the show are are graduating from to the show are are graduating from to the show are are graduating from executive roles into senior roles and so executive roles into senior roles and so executive roles into senior roles and so still maintaining a role, but but we're still maintaining a role, but but we're still maintaining a role, but but we're growing and evolving. We're getting growing and evolving. We're getting growing and evolving. We're getting older, frankly. Um, we have knee pain. older, frankly. Um, we have knee pain. older, frankly. Um, we have knee pain. No, we have back pain and chronic back No, we have back pain and chronic back No, we have back pain and chronic back pain. It's so chronic. That's you. Am I pain. It's so chronic. That's you. Am I pain. It's so chronic. That's you. Am I the me? Yes. Um, just acknowledge the the me? Yes. Um, just acknowledge the the me? Yes. Um, just acknowledge the bias that exists and and compensate for bias that exists and and compensate for bias that exists and and compensate for it as we as we as we move along. Yeah. I it as we as we as we move along. Yeah. I it as we as we as we move along. Yeah. I don't know if you took up smoking, but don't know if you took up smoking, but don't know if you took up smoking, but you like don't sound right. I don't know you like don't sound right. I don't know you like don't sound right. I don't know what's going on with me. My kids are are what's going on with me. My kids are are what's going on with me. My kids are are just it's been the my kids have been just it's been the my kids have been just it's been the my kids have been sick all winter and I just I you know I sick all winter and I just I you know I sick all winter and I just I you know I I I just get the edges of their I I just get the edges of their I I just get the edges of their sickness. So like I'm functional. I just sickness. So like I'm functional. I just sickness. So like I'm functional. I just my vocal cords are not performing for me my vocal cords are not performing for me my vocal cords are not performing for me today. It's so curious because you have today. It's so curious because you have today. It's so curious because you have had the winter of sickness in 25 that had the winter of sickness in 25 that had the winter of sickness in 25 that our family had in 24 and last year we our family had in 24 and last year we our family had in 24 and last year we were just laughing at everybody. Yeah.

were just laughing at everybody. Yeah. were just laughing at everybody. Yeah. And this year we were laughing at you. And this year we were laughing at you. And this year we were laughing at you. So my hope is like next year both of us So my hope is like next year both of us So my hope is like next year both of us are laughing at others. Right. are laughing at others. Right. are laughing at others. Right. Or to the spirit of this episode we're Or to the spirit of this episode we're Or to the spirit of this episode we're not on either end of the spectrum, but not on either end of the spectrum, but not on either end of the spectrum, but we settle right into the middle. So some we settle right into the middle. So some we settle right into the middle. So some sickness, but not all the So it's not sickness, but not all the So it's not sickness, but not all the So it's not all the way widelegg or skintight. It's all the way widelegg or skintight. It's all the way widelegg or skintight. It's the fit that you and I prefer, which is the fit that you and I prefer, which is the fit that you and I prefer, which is just like, yeah, these are straight just like, yeah, these are straight just like, yeah, these are straight jeans. There's There's room to move, but jeans. There's There's room to move, but jeans. There's There's room to move, but now we're not swimming in here. Now now we're not swimming in here. Now now we're not swimming in here. Now we're just straight fit. Now we're just we're just straight fit. Now we're just we're just straight fit. Now we're just like the vanilla. There's nothing dad like the vanilla. There's nothing dad like the vanilla. There's nothing dad [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] cut. Lord, we got one more big idea. Big cut. Lord, we got one more big idea. Big cut. Lord, we got one more big idea. Big idea number five. You mentioned uh web idea number five. You mentioned uh web idea number five. You mentioned uh web design. And I've been having this design. And I've been having this design. And I've been having this feeling like I wonder if like the photos feeling like I wonder if like the photos feeling like I wonder if like the photos we should be using on our websites, we should be using on our websites, we should be using on our websites, these big photo containers. Oh my god, I these big photo containers. Oh my god, I these big photo containers. Oh my god, I had this exact idea. Right? Then the had this exact idea. Right? Then the had this exact idea. Right? Then the question comes like wait a minute, why question comes like wait a minute, why question comes like wait a minute, why are we doing everything that Gen Z are we doing everything that Gen Z are we doing everything that Gen Z wants? wants? wants? Right? And that is the important Right? And that is the important Right? And that is the important question to interrogate and that question to interrogate and that question to interrogate and that underpins this entire conversation which underpins this entire conversation which underpins this entire conversation which is okay this generation drives creative is okay this generation drives creative is okay this generation drives creative trends. So what why are we catering to trends. So what why are we catering to trends. So what why are we catering to their creative preferences aside from their creative preferences aside from their creative preferences aside from the fact that we see everything else in the fact that we see everything else in the fact that we see everything else in the world driven by the young people?

the world driven by the young people? the world driven by the young people? Does that mean that we should only cater Does that mean that we should only cater Does that mean that we should only cater to our own preferences? Because like to our own preferences? Because like to our own preferences? Because like surely we didn't care for things when it surely we didn't care for things when it surely we didn't care for things when it was boomers that were purely in senior was boomers that were purely in senior was boomers that were purely in senior leadership. Sure. And they had very leadership. Sure. And they had very leadership. Sure. And they had very creative differences than us. We're like creative differences than us. We're like creative differences than us. We're like okay but like can we just play a song okay but like can we just play a song okay but like can we just play a song from like before or like like after 2000 from like before or like like after 2000 from like before or like like after 2000 like might need to save again like I I like might need to save again like I I like might need to save again like I I get it like like run it but Darlene get it like like run it but Darlene get it like like run it but Darlene check come on something like can we do check come on something like can we do check come on something like can we do it differently. She doesn't even go to it differently. She doesn't even go to it differently. She doesn't even go to that church anymore honestly. And and we that church anymore honestly. And and we that church anymore honestly. And and we didn't care for that. So, like I think didn't care for that. So, like I think didn't care for that. So, like I think we would have agreed that like no no we would have agreed that like no no we would have agreed that like no no like we have preferences too. Like we like we have preferences too. Like we like we have preferences too. Like we should care about those. It would be should care about those. It would be should care about those. It would be completely like counterintuitive to then completely like counterintuitive to then completely like counterintuitive to then say like well now that we're in charge say like well now that we're in charge say like well now that we're in charge our creative preferences are still the our creative preferences are still the our creative preferences are still the most important. And so then we get down most important. And so then we get down most important. And so then we get down to okay how do you value one generation to okay how do you value one generation to okay how do you value one generation over another? And at its best as we over another? And at its best as we over another? And at its best as we often say church is a unique institution often say church is a unique institution often say church is a unique institution because it's where every generation is because it's where every generation is because it's where every generation is meant to gather. That is very unique in meant to gather. That is very unique in meant to gather. That is very unique in culture. It is unusual these days. the culture. It is unusual these days. the culture. It is unusual these days. the church still maintains its spot as one church still maintains its spot as one church still maintains its spot as one of the few institutions where that of the few institutions where that of the few institutions where that exists. And so what we're not saying is exists. And so what we're not saying is exists. And so what we're not saying is like only cater to young people. But like only cater to young people. But like only cater to young people. But what we also know from our conversation what we also know from our conversation what we also know from our conversation with the folks at Growing Young in a with the folks at Growing Young in a with the folks at Growing Young in a previous episode from their really I previous episode from their really I previous episode from their really I like landmark research is that the best like landmark research is that the best like landmark research is that the best way for your church to grow is to way for your church to grow is to way for your church to grow is to disproportionately put resources towards disproportionately put resources towards disproportionately put resources towards young people. I'm not saying you need to young people. I'm not saying you need to young people. I'm not saying you need to do that in ministry as a whole, but when do that in ministry as a whole, but when do that in ministry as a whole, but when it comes to creative culture, young

it comes to creative culture, young it comes to creative culture, young people are the taste makers. And so, if people are the taste makers. And so, if people are the taste makers. And so, if you want to stay relevant within you want to stay relevant within you want to stay relevant within creativity, you're going to probably creativity, you're going to probably creativity, you're going to probably always have to skew towards young always have to skew towards young always have to skew towards young people. And that is Gen Z now. And then people. And that is Gen Z now. And then people. And that is Gen Z now. And then in 15 more years when we run back this in 15 more years when we run back this in 15 more years when we run back this podcast, because this podcast will never podcast, because this podcast will never podcast, because this podcast will never end. It's already been around for 10 end. It's already been around for 10 end. It's already been around for 10 years. Everything we've said 10 years years. Everything we've said 10 years years. Everything we've said 10 years ago has like since changed. We'll be ago has like since changed. We'll be ago has like since changed. We'll be saying Gen Alpha, your kids and my kids, saying Gen Alpha, your kids and my kids, saying Gen Alpha, your kids and my kids, they're the ones driving creative they're the ones driving creative they're the ones driving creative culture. And now we'll be two culture. And now we'll be two culture. And now we'll be two generations away. We'll have to spend generations away. We'll have to spend generations away. We'll have to spend twice as long on this episode because twice as long on this episode because twice as long on this episode because we'll be like, "Man, we thought Gen Z we'll be like, "Man, we thought Gen Z we'll be like, "Man, we thought Gen Z was on something different. What are was on something different. What are was on something different. What are they even proposing? Jen Alpha is they even proposing? Jen Alpha is they even proposing? Jen Alpha is crazy." And so our missional value here crazy." And so our missional value here crazy." And so our missional value here is that the best way to grow a church is is that the best way to grow a church is is that the best way to grow a church is to disproportionately prioritize to disproportionately prioritize to disproportionately prioritize resources to young people. resources to young people. resources to young people. Disproportionate. That means you have to Disproportionate. That means you have to Disproportionate. That means you have to choose. I mean, we can try to spread it choose. I mean, we can try to spread it choose. I mean, we can try to spread it evenly across like every generation. Um, evenly across like every generation. Um, evenly across like every generation. Um, I don't know if that's realistic. What I don't know if that's realistic. What I don't know if that's realistic. What typically happens is the leadership typically happens is the leadership typically happens is the leadership disproportionately prioritizes resources disproportionately prioritizes resources disproportionately prioritizes resources for people that look like them. Yeah. for people that look like them. Yeah. for people that look like them. Yeah. So, let's not pretend that like we're So, let's not pretend that like we're So, let's not pretend that like we're going to choose young people and that going to choose young people and that going to choose young people and that that's like some error because we're not that's like some error because we're not that's like some error because we're not doing that currently. No, what's doing that currently. No, what's doing that currently. No, what's probably happening currently is, you probably happening currently is, you probably happening currently is, you know, your vibe attracts your tribe and know, your vibe attracts your tribe and know, your vibe attracts your tribe and the congregation looks and has the same the congregation looks and has the same the congregation looks and has the same personality as the lead pastor. That's personality as the lead pastor. That's personality as the lead pastor. That's how things go organically. That's the how things go organically. That's the how things go organically. That's the default to mo be most effective. And we default to mo be most effective. And we default to mo be most effective. And we always say mission over method. The always say mission over method. The always say mission over method. The research would suggest in the churches research would suggest in the churches research would suggest in the churches that are growing that the one that are growing that the one that are growing that the one commonality and you can go back to that commonality and you can go back to that commonality and you can go back to that episode if you find it unconvincing. You episode if you find it unconvincing. You episode if you find it unconvincing. You can read through that book and see all can read through that book and see all can read through that book and see all the research yourself if you find it the research yourself if you find it the research yourself if you find it unconvincing. It's actually better to unconvincing. It's actually better to unconvincing. It's actually better to move those resources to the younger move those resources to the younger move those resources to the younger people and that overall betters everyone

people and that overall betters everyone people and that overall betters everyone in the church and the organization as a in the church and the organization as a in the church and the organization as a whole. That conversation we had with Dr. whole. That conversation we had with Dr. whole. That conversation we had with Dr. Cara Powell like really marked me that Cara Powell like really marked me that Cara Powell like really marked me that that phrase um about disproportionately that phrase um about disproportionately that phrase um about disproportionately prioritizing young people has become prioritizing young people has become prioritizing young people has become like shared language in our church um like shared language in our church um like shared language in our church um you know a rural church of 65 or 75 you know a rural church of 65 or 75 you know a rural church of 65 or 75 people who are asking the same questions people who are asking the same questions people who are asking the same questions of a lot of churches in America frankly of a lot of churches in America frankly of a lot of churches in America frankly of of the average size of like okay uh of of the average size of like okay uh of of the average size of like okay uh what now what next and and so it's just what now what next and and so it's just what now what next and and so it's just become shared language and we we've become shared language and we we've become shared language and we we've we've begun to to do that and one we've begun to to do that and one we've begun to to do that and one practical way to to make it make sense practical way to to make it make sense practical way to to make it make sense to the decisionmaker makers at your to the decisionmaker makers at your to the decisionmaker makers at your church, your your your leadership as a church, your your your leadership as a church, your your your leadership as a whole, is to involve people of that age whole, is to involve people of that age whole, is to involve people of that age group. Like give them a seat at the group. Like give them a seat at the group. Like give them a seat at the table. It's so much easier to make sense table. It's so much easier to make sense table. It's so much easier to make sense of it than listening to us, right? Just of it than listening to us, right? Just of it than listening to us, right? Just just talk to them. Yes. And so like I'm just talk to them. Yes. And so like I'm just talk to them. Yes. And so like I'm I'm not saying that that they need to I'm not saying that that they need to I'm not saying that that they need to they need to have a seat at the elders they need to have a seat at the elders they need to have a seat at the elders table, but they certainly need to have table, but they certainly need to have table, but they certainly need to have seats at at the table of like like seats at at the table of like like seats at at the table of like like leadership meetings. And and we try to leadership meetings. And and we try to leadership meetings. And and we try to to and not perfectly, but we try to like to and not perfectly, but we try to like to and not perfectly, but we try to like have someone representative from every have someone representative from every have someone representative from every um decade in our like leadership um decade in our like leadership um decade in our like leadership conversations at church so that we're conversations at church so that we're conversations at church so that we're we're we're spanning the whole. Um but we're we're spanning the whole. Um but we're we're spanning the whole. Um but it's that it's that younger demographic it's that it's that younger demographic it's that it's that younger demographic that often gets overlooked because oh that often gets overlooked because oh that often gets overlooked because oh they don't know anything yet. They're they don't know anything yet. They're they don't know anything yet. They're just kids. This that and the other. But just kids. This that and the other. But just kids. This that and the other. But if Dr. Dr. Carropell and her team at the if Dr. Dr. Carropell and her team at the if Dr. Dr. Carropell and her team at the the Fuller Youth Institute are correct the Fuller Youth Institute are correct the Fuller Youth Institute are correct and and and the the um you know what and and and the the um you know what and and and the the um you know what they've gleaned from from the data is they've gleaned from from the data is they've gleaned from from the data is true, then we ought to be listening to true, then we ought to be listening to true, then we ought to be listening to these these kids um even in their youth, these these kids um even in their youth, these these kids um even in their youth, even in their their struggling and even in their their struggling and even in their their struggling and they're grumbling and they're growing um

they're grumbling and they're growing um they're grumbling and they're growing um and prioritize them uh accordingly to and prioritize them uh accordingly to and prioritize them uh accordingly to see our churches and communities as a see our churches and communities as a see our churches and communities as a whole thrive and hopefully grow. Yeah. whole thrive and hopefully grow. Yeah. whole thrive and hopefully grow. Yeah. And it's scriptural, right? I mean, I And it's scriptural, right? I mean, I And it's scriptural, right? I mean, I think we were probably the generation think we were probably the generation think we were probably the generation that was like, "It says in the Bible, that was like, "It says in the Bible, that was like, "It says in the Bible, Paul wrote it. Don't don't neglect me Paul wrote it. Don't don't neglect me Paul wrote it. Don't don't neglect me cuz I'm young. Don't look down at me cuz cuz I'm young. Don't look down at me cuz cuz I'm young. Don't look down at me cuz I'm young. And now we're like I mean I'm young. And now we're like I mean I'm young. And now we're like I mean look at this kid. Why don't you listen look at this kid. Why don't you listen look at this kid. Why don't you listen to what he has to say? I listen what she to what he has to say? I listen what she to what he has to say? I listen what she has to say. And I think uh overall has to say. And I think uh overall has to say. And I think uh overall recognizing that this is challenging is recognizing that this is challenging is recognizing that this is challenging is the most important thing. We're not the most important thing. We're not the most important thing. We're not suggesting that you listen to one suggesting that you listen to one suggesting that you listen to one episode and suddenly you have it all episode and suddenly you have it all episode and suddenly you have it all right. Um but those are the big five right. Um but those are the big five right. Um but those are the big five ideas. Those are the values that we are ideas. Those are the values that we are ideas. Those are the values that we are going to use. And that is this episode going to use. And that is this episode going to use. And that is this episode of the ProChurch Show. We'll see you of the ProChurch Show. We'll see you of the ProChurch Show. We'll see you next Wednesday. Who knows what brutal next Wednesday. Who knows what brutal next Wednesday. Who knows what brutal truths we'll be sharing there. Talk to truths we'll be sharing there. Talk to truths we'll be sharing there. Talk to you next week. you next week. you next week. We got five big ideas. We got three We got five big ideas. We got three We got five big ideas. We got three sneaky values. And we got a sneaky values. And we got a sneaky values. And we got a podcast. Sneaky values. You snuck them podcast. Sneaky values. You snuck them podcast. Sneaky values. You snuck them in there. You snuck them into a big in there. You snuck them into a big in there. You snuck them into a big idea. Subheading. Yeah, that's true. I idea. Subheading. Yeah, that's true. I idea. Subheading. Yeah, that's true. I did. I really did.