We Analyzed 500+ Churches On Social Media. The Results Were Unexpected.

Since 2023, I've worked with more than Since 2023, I've worked with more than 500 churches one-on-one on their social 500 churches one-on-one on their social 500 churches one-on-one on their social media. Churches of all sizes, urban, media. Churches of all sizes, urban, media. Churches of all sizes, urban, rural, all types of different rural, all types of different rural, all types of different denominations and locations. denominations and locations. denominations and locations. Irrespective of that, one pattern I have Irrespective of that, one pattern I have Irrespective of that, one pattern I have seen emerge and show up again and again seen emerge and show up again and again seen emerge and show up again and again and again was better design, better and again was better design, better and again was better design, better gear, a killer aesthetic. Maybe it was a gear, a killer aesthetic. Maybe it was a gear, a killer aesthetic. Maybe it was a team of Gen Z social media volunteers. team of Gen Z social media volunteers. team of Gen Z social media volunteers. None of those, in fact. So, let's dive None of those, in fact. So, let's dive None of those, in fact. So, let's dive in to the actual numbers. Well, Well, >> Hey there and welcome to the Pro Church >> Hey there and welcome to the Pro Church >> Hey there and welcome to the Pro Church Tools Show. We're here to help you and Tools Show. We're here to help you and Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest your church navigate the biggest your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host, we call him Bishop always by my co-host, we call him Bishop always by my co-host, we call him Bishop Baklava. It's Alexander Mills. Hello, Baklava. It's Alexander Mills. Hello, Baklava. It's Alexander Mills. Hello, hello. And today, we're here to tell you hello. And today, we're here to tell you hello. And today, we're here to tell you that you can find this video show now on that you can find this video show now on that you can find this video show now on Spotify. Yes. Spotify. Yes. Spotify. Yes. Why were we not there before? Great Why were we not there before? Great Why were we not there before? Great question. Don't ask us anymore, it's question. Don't ask us anymore, it's question. Don't ask us anymore, it's there now. Today, we're talking about a there now. Today, we're talking about a there now. Today, we're talking about a core data set core data set core data set of of of the efforts that we have compiled from the efforts that we have compiled from the efforts that we have compiled from working one-on-one with more than 500 working one-on-one with more than 500 working one-on-one with more than 500 churches since 2023. churches since 2023. churches since 2023. And what we've looked at And what we've looked at And what we've looked at applies across platforms, across all applies across platforms, across all applies across platforms, across all types of church sizes. We have seen a types of church sizes. We have seen a types of church sizes. We have seen a singular pattern emerge and be singular pattern emerge and be singular pattern emerge and be predictable, be consistent again and predictable, be consistent again and predictable, be consistent again and again and again. So, let's start with again and again. So, let's start with again and again. So, let's start with three different examples that are three different examples that are three different examples that are representative, again, of hundreds of representative, again, of hundreds of representative, again, of hundreds of churches. Sure. Example number one.

churches. Sure. Example number one. churches. Sure. Example number one. Church with 20,000 combined followers. Church with 20,000 combined followers. Church with 20,000 combined followers. In the year of 2025, their posting In the year of 2025, their posting In the year of 2025, their posting volume increased by 468%, volume increased by 468%, volume increased by 468%, okay? By 500%. Their views went up okay? By 500%. Their views went up okay? By 500%. Their views went up 508%. All right? And you'll see the uh 508%. All right? And you'll see the uh 508%. All right? And you'll see the uh screenshot from their analytics that we screenshot from their analytics that we screenshot from their analytics that we have on the screen. You're The box you have on the screen. You're The box you have on the screen. You're The box you want to look at is impressions. want to look at is impressions. want to look at is impressions. Instagram changed the way that they Instagram changed the way that they Instagram changed the way that they catalog. Now, they call everything catalog. Now, they call everything catalog. Now, they call everything views. So, our analytics thing still views. So, our analytics thing still views. So, our analytics thing still calls that impressions. That's views. calls that impressions. That's views. calls that impressions. That's views. >> Mhm. Okay? That's church number one. Oh, >> Mhm. Okay? That's church number one. Oh, >> Mhm. Okay? That's church number one. Oh, but that's 20,000 combined followers. but that's 20,000 combined followers. but that's 20,000 combined followers. Church number two. 857 Church number two. 857 Church number two. 857 combined followers. combined followers. combined followers. >> That's like a church of my size. >> That's like a church of my size. >> That's like a church of my size. Exactly. Posting volume increased 427% Exactly. Posting volume increased 427% Exactly. Posting volume increased 427% impressions went up 874% impressions went up 874% impressions went up 874% wow. So, even bigger. wow. So, even bigger. wow. So, even bigger. >> Mhm. Now, Alex just said a church of his >> Mhm. Now, Alex just said a church of his >> Mhm. Now, Alex just said a church of his size. How many people go to your church? size. How many people go to your church? size. How many people go to your church? >> Yeah, 65 75. >> Yeah, 65 75. >> Yeah, 65 75. >> Right. So, 800 followers combined across >> Right. So, 800 followers combined across >> Right. So, 800 followers combined across four or five different platforms. That's four or five different platforms. That's four or five different platforms. That's how we're getting to these numbers. how we're getting to these numbers. how we're getting to these numbers. >> Church number three, 2,000 combined >> Church number three, 2,000 combined >> Church number three, 2,000 combined followers roughly. Posting volume followers roughly. Posting volume followers roughly. Posting volume increased in the year of 2025 562% increased in the year of 2025 562% increased in the year of 2025 562% relative to the year 2024 and their relative to the year 2024 and their relative to the year 2024 and their impressions went up 466%. So, starting impressions went up 466%. So, starting impressions went up 466%. So, starting to see a trend? It is boring. It is to see a trend? It is boring. It is to see a trend? It is boring. It is predictable predictable predictable and it works on smaller scales, too.

and it works on smaller scales, too. and it works on smaller scales, too. This was not in my original notes, but I This was not in my original notes, but I This was not in my original notes, but I was on a call yesterday with a church. was on a call yesterday with a church. was on a call yesterday with a church. Giant church, okay? And we work with Giant church, okay? And we work with Giant church, okay? And we work with them as well. We've worked with them for them as well. We've worked with them for them as well. We've worked with them for like two plus years. So, in 2025 their like two plus years. So, in 2025 their like two plus years. So, in 2025 their numbers didn't go up by like 500% numbers didn't go up by like 500% numbers didn't go up by like 500% because they didn't start working with because they didn't start working with because they didn't start working with us and like make it their posting volume us and like make it their posting volume us and like make it their posting volume in 2025 only went up 17%. in 2025 only went up 17%. in 2025 only went up 17%. >> Mhm. Just a small amount. Want to guess >> Mhm. Just a small amount. Want to guess >> Mhm. Just a small amount. Want to guess what their views went up? More than 17%. what their views went up? More than 17%. what their views went up? More than 17%. Well, 16%. So, Well, 16%. So, Well, 16%. So, like that is how like that is how like that is how >> the Yeah, it's there. It is wild. And >> the Yeah, it's there. It is wild. And >> the Yeah, it's there. It is wild. And so, so, so, said simply, post more, said simply, post more, said simply, post more, get more views. And that's the show. get more views. And that's the show. get more views. And that's the show. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. >> Well, let's unpack why this is more >> Well, let's unpack why this is more >> Well, let's unpack why this is more profound than maybe it sounds on the profound than maybe it sounds on the profound than maybe it sounds on the surface. Again, this has been true as surface. Again, this has been true as surface. Again, this has been true as we've seen across virtually every church we've seen across virtually every church we've seen across virtually every church regardless of follower account, regardless of follower account, regardless of follower account, location, denomination, production location, denomination, production location, denomination, production quality. That matters as well. The quality. That matters as well. The quality. That matters as well. The correlation correlation correlation is what it is. is what it is. is what it is. Here's the part that I think Here's the part that I think Here's the part that I think is under the surface. Alex is making an is under the surface. Alex is making an is under the surface. Alex is making an obvious joke which is like, yeah, like obvious joke which is like, yeah, like obvious joke which is like, yeah, like thanks for the tip, Brady. Okay. So, thanks for the tip, Brady. Okay. So, thanks for the tip, Brady. Okay. So, everyone listen to this part that I'm everyone listen to this part that I'm everyone listen to this part that I'm about to say.

about to say. about to say. You'll never get an analytics report for You'll never get an analytics report for You'll never get an analytics report for the posts that you never make. the posts that you never make. the posts that you never make. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So, what that means is So, what that means is So, what that means is if you believe in the concept of if you believe in the concept of if you believe in the concept of multiple universes as an example. multiple universes as an example. multiple universes as an example. There's another you There's another you There's another you in another universe who's working at the in another universe who's working at the in another universe who's working at the church that you're at right now. And church that you're at right now. And church that you're at right now. And you're like, "You know what? I'm going you're like, "You know what? I'm going you're like, "You know what? I'm going to listen to Brady and Alex." Not Alex, to listen to Brady and Alex." Not Alex, to listen to Brady and Alex." Not Alex, he's making jokes. he's making jokes. he's making jokes. I'm going to listen to Brady. I'm going to listen to Brady. I'm going to listen to Brady. >> I'm going to post 500% more than I >> I'm going to post 500% more than I >> I'm going to post 500% more than I currently am. Or 17% more, right? And in currently am. Or 17% more, right? And in currently am. Or 17% more, right? And in a year from now a year from now a year from now 17% more, 500% more, 311% more people 17% more, 500% more, 311% more people 17% more, 500% more, 311% more people will interact with our church. will interact with our church. will interact with our church. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That is a possibility, but you'll never That is a possibility, but you'll never That is a possibility, but you'll never see that unless you do it. see that unless you do it. see that unless you do it. And there's that meme of like the the And there's that meme of like the the And there's that meme of like the the the guy, it's a cartoon meme, and he's the guy, it's a cartoon meme, and he's the guy, it's a cartoon meme, and he's underground, and he has a little underground, and he has a little underground, and he has a little pickaxe. Yes. And he keeps digging and pickaxe. Yes. And he keeps digging and pickaxe. Yes. And he keeps digging and digging and digging. And what you see is digging and digging. And what you see is digging and digging. And what you see is that he had dug that he had dug that he had dug a tunnel underground for a long time, a tunnel underground for a long time, a tunnel underground for a long time, and he stopped. And right where he and he stopped. And right where he and he stopped. And right where he stopped, if he had just done it like for stopped, if he had just done it like for stopped, if he had just done it like for one more centimeter, he would have one more centimeter, he would have one more centimeter, he would have discovered the treasure. discovered the treasure. discovered the treasure. >> Mhm. And that's like the example here, >> Mhm. And that's like the example here, >> Mhm. And that's like the example here, where where where you we can see in that cartoon meme, you we can see in that cartoon meme, you we can see in that cartoon meme, we'll put it on the screen, you're right we'll put it on the screen, you're right we'll put it on the screen, you're right there, man, just keep going. But he there, man, just keep going. But he there, man, just keep going. But he can't see it until he stops. And that's can't see it until he stops. And that's can't see it until he stops. And that's what this is, where what this is, where what this is, where if you just did the work, that many more if you just did the work, that many more if you just did the work, that many more people would hear and see your church.

people would hear and see your church. people would hear and see your church. But you'll never see that report for But you'll never see that report for But you'll never see that report for when you don't do that level of work. when you don't do that level of work. when you don't do that level of work. Yeah. This is why this is so profound to me. This is why this is so profound to me. If you, as a church, knew If you, as a church, knew If you, as a church, knew that you could have that you could have that you could have twice as many services twice as many services twice as many services and twice as many people would come to and twice as many people would come to and twice as many people would come to church. church. church. What would we all do? Yeah, you'd you'd What would we all do? Yeah, you'd you'd What would we all do? Yeah, you'd you'd figure out probably a way to do the work figure out probably a way to do the work figure out probably a way to do the work to get to two services. I got to ask you to get to two services. I got to ask you to get to two services. I got to ask you something. Say you're a church of 65. something. Say you're a church of 65. something. Say you're a church of 65. I guarantee that you will be a church of I guarantee that you will be a church of I guarantee that you will be a church of 130 130 130 if you do twice as many services. if you do twice as many services. if you do twice as many services. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Just run another service. Just run another service. Just run another service. Okay? By the way, if you do four, then Okay? By the way, if you do four, then Okay? By the way, if you do four, then you'll be 260. If you add a Saturday you'll be 260. If you add a Saturday you'll be 260. If you add a Saturday night, you night, you night, you And like, that that would be That's not And like, that that would be That's not And like, that that would be That's not how things work, right? We have the how things work, right? We have the how things work, right? We have the number of services that we think we need number of services that we think we need number of services that we think we need based on the the based on the the based on the the of people wanting to come to church. of people wanting to come to church. of people wanting to come to church. Social media works in the opposite. And Social media works in the opposite. And Social media works in the opposite. And this is what is so amazing because this this is what is so amazing because this this is what is so amazing because this math is like doesn't exist anywhere in math is like doesn't exist anywhere in math is like doesn't exist anywhere in ministry where you can just be like, ministry where you can just be like, ministry where you can just be like, "Okay, I am going to manufacture demand "Okay, I am going to manufacture demand "Okay, I am going to manufacture demand for the word of God by publishing it."

for the word of God by publishing it." for the word of God by publishing it." No. No, that that doesn't exist. But No. No, that that doesn't exist. But No. No, that that doesn't exist. But what we're seeing here is that that is what we're seeing here is that that is what we're seeing here is that that is true on social media. true on social media. true on social media. >> So, what do you think? What is the We've >> So, what do you think? What is the We've >> So, what do you think? What is the We've talked about the correlation, but what talked about the correlation, but what talked about the correlation, but what is the causation? Why is this true on is the causation? Why is this true on is the causation? Why is this true on social media? What's going on right now social media? What's going on right now social media? What's going on right now that makes this that makes this that makes this um not just probable, but like plausible um not just probable, but like plausible um not just probable, but like plausible that if you post twice as much, you're that if you post twice as much, you're that if you post twice as much, you're very likely, if not guaranteed, to get very likely, if not guaranteed, to get very likely, if not guaranteed, to get roughly twice as many views per day. So, roughly twice as many views per day. So, roughly twice as many views per day. So, it wouldn't have been true in previous it wouldn't have been true in previous it wouldn't have been true in previous eras. I think the reason it's true now eras. I think the reason it's true now eras. I think the reason it's true now is that it is a byproduct. It's is that it is a byproduct. It's is that it is a byproduct. It's downstream of what Adam Mosseri, the downstream of what Adam Mosseri, the downstream of what Adam Mosseri, the head of Instagram, said last summer. head of Instagram, said last summer. head of Instagram, said last summer. Hey, the supply on social is outpacing Hey, the supply on social is outpacing Hey, the supply on social is outpacing demand. demand. demand. We've said this on the show before, but We've said this on the show before, but We've said this on the show before, but like like like it's something I remind myself of, which it's something I remind myself of, which it's something I remind myself of, which is if you're operating in a climate is if you're operating in a climate is if you're operating in a climate where supply outpaces demand, what that where supply outpaces demand, what that where supply outpaces demand, what that means is you will publish content that means is you will publish content that means is you will publish content that is awesome that does not perform is awesome that does not perform is awesome that does not perform awesome. Like you can have awesome. Like you can have awesome. Like you can have Right. All the people who want to see Right. All the people who want to see Right. All the people who want to see it. Because if supply outpaces demand, it. Because if supply outpaces demand, it. Because if supply outpaces demand, that means that there's lots of good that means that there's lots of good that means that there's lots of good stuff that doesn't perform good. It's stuff that doesn't perform good. It's stuff that doesn't perform good. It's like, "Oh, like that's a really weird like, "Oh, like that's a really weird like, "Oh, like that's a really weird thing." That means that like your input thing." That means that like your input thing." That means that like your input does not determine your output based on does not determine your output based on does not determine your output based on quality. So, quality. So, quality. So, let's talk about how to calculate all let's talk about how to calculate all let's talk about how to calculate all this and dive a little bit deeper into this and dive a little bit deeper into this and dive a little bit deeper into Alex's question. So, Alex's question. So, Alex's question. So, the title of this episode the title of this episode the title of this episode is is is We looked at the 500-plus churches and We looked at the 500-plus churches and We looked at the 500-plus churches and the results we found were embarrassing.

the results we found were embarrassing. the results we found were embarrassing. And I chose that word very And I chose that word very And I chose that word very intentionally. And I'll get to why I intentionally. And I'll get to why I intentionally. And I'll get to why I chose that. But first, just to lay some chose that. But first, just to lay some chose that. But first, just to lay some groundwork. groundwork. groundwork. The metric, and we've talked about this The metric, and we've talked about this The metric, and we've talked about this for about a year, that we are tracking for about a year, that we are tracking for about a year, that we are tracking more than any other is views per day. more than any other is views per day. more than any other is views per day. The way that we just presented those The way that we just presented those The way that we just presented those churches' data was views. Right. And churches' data was views. Right. And churches' data was views. Right. And then we would just basically take that then we would just basically take that then we would just basically take that divided by 365 in those numbers, or if divided by 365 in those numbers, or if divided by 365 in those numbers, or if we were looking at 90-day rolling we were looking at 90-day rolling we were looking at 90-day rolling averages or 30-day rolling averages. averages or 30-day rolling averages. averages or 30-day rolling averages. Okay. Okay. Okay. Views per day is the metric that matters Views per day is the metric that matters Views per day is the metric that matters most. How do you calculate it? Okay. most. How do you calculate it? Okay. most. How do you calculate it? Okay. Views per day equals and then there are Views per day equals and then there are Views per day equals and then there are three things combining to come up with three things combining to come up with three things combining to come up with that number, okay? that number, okay? that number, okay? >> Take out your notepad, take these notes. >> Take out your notepad, take these notes. >> Take out your notepad, take these notes. And we're going to call this a VPD, And we're going to call this a VPD, And we're going to call this a VPD, okay? It's just easier now. VPD. It's okay? It's just easier now. VPD. It's okay? It's just easier now. VPD. It's actually easier because instead of three actually easier because instead of three actually easier because instead of three um syllables, we're using three um syllables, we're using three um syllables, we're using three syllables. VPD VPD equals equals equals volume volume volume Okay. That's the lever you can control. Okay. That's the lever you can control. Okay. That's the lever you can control. Volume. How much you post. Volume times Volume. How much you post. Volume times Volume. How much you post. Volume times quality of post Is it good? times quality of post Is it good? times quality of post Is it good? times algorithmic luck. algorithmic luck. algorithmic luck. >> Mhm. So, >> Mhm. So, >> Mhm. So, what did we just establish? Volume is what did we just establish? Volume is what did we just establish? Volume is what you can control. Look at these what you can control. Look at these what you can control. Look at these churches. They changed it and things churches. They changed it and things churches. They changed it and things were effective.

were effective. were effective. Quality. Quality. Quality. Well, as we just established, Well, as we just established, Well, as we just established, you can have something awesome and it you can have something awesome and it you can have something awesome and it flop. flop. flop. >> Yeah. Not to mention that quality is >> Yeah. Not to mention that quality is >> Yeah. Not to mention that quality is subjective. subjective. subjective. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. What we know about Gen Z is that they What we know about Gen Z is that they What we know about Gen Z is that they literally want and Gen Alpha, they literally want and Gen Alpha, they literally want and Gen Alpha, they literally want their videos to be shot literally want their videos to be shot literally want their videos to be shot on a phone because they interpret that on a phone because they interpret that on a phone because they interpret that as genuine. Whereas I might interpret as genuine. Whereas I might interpret as genuine. Whereas I might interpret that as that as that as Honestly, buy a camera. Like, put some Honestly, buy a camera. Like, put some Honestly, buy a camera. Like, put some effort into this. effort into this. effort into this. >> Mhm. That effort to them is interpreted >> Mhm. That effort to them is interpreted >> Mhm. That effort to them is interpreted as manufactured and fake. as manufactured and fake. as manufactured and fake. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, quality is like >> Yeah. Yeah. So, quality is like >> Yeah. Yeah. So, quality is like completely subjective and You and I just completely subjective and You and I just completely subjective and You and I just talked talked about it before we pressed talked talked about it before we pressed talked talked about it before we pressed record on this show. We were talking record on this show. We were talking record on this show. We were talking about some of our own personal like about some of our own personal like about some of our own personal like Instagram analytics and reposting some Instagram analytics and reposting some Instagram analytics and reposting some of our our our best players is a a of our our our best players is a a of our our our best players is a a strategy we've talked about on the show strategy we've talked about on the show strategy we've talked about on the show and you'll repost some of your best and you'll repost some of your best and you'll repost some of your best performing posts, the posts that have performing posts, the posts that have performing posts, the posts that have reached hundreds of thousands and reached hundreds of thousands and reached hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of people. And the sometimes millions of people. And the sometimes millions of people. And the next time you post it, next time you post it, next time you post it, it doesn't perform as well. The it doesn't perform as well. The it doesn't perform as well. The content's literally the same and that's content's literally the same and that's content's literally the same and that's to the algorithmic that's the quality to the algorithmic that's the quality to the algorithmic that's the quality hasn't changed. The quality is high hasn't changed. The quality is high hasn't changed. The quality is high quality, it's the content we produce, quality, it's the content we produce, quality, it's the content we produce, but then you've got this algorithmic but then you've got this algorithmic but then you've got this algorithmic luck, which is yeah, sometimes the right luck, which is yeah, sometimes the right luck, which is yeah, sometimes the right people are going to see it at the right people are going to see it at the right people are going to see it at the right time and the algorithm's going to feed time and the algorithm's going to feed time and the algorithm's going to feed off that and it's going to reach a off that and it's going to reach a off that and it's going to reach a million people. And other times it's million people. And other times it's million people. And other times it's going to for whatever reason and there going to for whatever reason and there going to for whatever reason and there you know, it's not it's not what time of you know, it's not it's not what time of you know, it's not it's not what time of day you post anymore. It's not any of day you post anymore. It's not any of day you post anymore. It's not any of this stuff. It's just like, well, for this stuff. It's just like, well, for this stuff. It's just like, well, for whatever reason, only 16.1 thousand whatever reason, only 16.1 thousand whatever reason, only 16.1 thousand people saw this post. Yeah, and this is people saw this post. Yeah, and this is people saw this post. Yeah, and this is this is important follow up to that.

this is important follow up to that. this is important follow up to that. Last year, that didn't happen. Last Last year, that didn't happen. Last Last year, that didn't happen. Last year, every time I reposted a winner, it year, every time I reposted a winner, it year, every time I reposted a winner, it was a winner again. Every time. And now was a winner again. Every time. And now was a winner again. Every time. And now it is not as predictable, which is very it is not as predictable, which is very it is not as predictable, which is very interesting to me. interesting to me. interesting to me. >> Because there's more supply demand than >> Because there's more supply demand than >> Because there's more supply demand than demand today than it even was a year demand today than it even was a year demand today than it even was a year ago. ago. ago. >> It's continuing to increase. So, >> It's continuing to increase. So, >> It's continuing to increase. So, VBD equals volume times quality times VBD equals volume times quality times VBD equals volume times quality times algorithmic luck. algorithmic luck. algorithmic luck. Algorithmic luck. That's what Alex was Algorithmic luck. That's what Alex was Algorithmic luck. That's what Alex was just saying. I I don't know, man. just saying. I I don't know, man. just saying. I I don't know, man. >> Good luck. We call it the algorithmic >> Good luck. We call it the algorithmic >> Good luck. We call it the algorithmic lottery sometimes, because it's just lottery sometimes, because it's just lottery sometimes, because it's just like, ah, you know, you just buy a like, ah, you know, you just buy a like, ah, you know, you just buy a ticket, scratch it, and then hope you ticket, scratch it, and then hope you ticket, scratch it, and then hope you win. So, win. So, win. So, if views per day is what matters most, if views per day is what matters most, if views per day is what matters most, and there are three variables that are and there are three variables that are and there are three variables that are being being being interacting with each other interacting with each other interacting with each other to add up to views per day. to add up to views per day. to add up to views per day. And there's only one that you can And there's only one that you can And there's only one that you can control, control, control, that's why we need to focus on that. that's why we need to focus on that. that's why we need to focus on that. You can't control luck. Algorithmic You can't control luck. Algorithmic You can't control luck. Algorithmic lottery is a reality of supply outpacing lottery is a reality of supply outpacing lottery is a reality of supply outpacing demand. demand. demand. Quality matters, but it's subjective. Quality matters, but it's subjective. Quality matters, but it's subjective. So, So, So, why did I say that this is embarrassing? why did I say that this is embarrassing? why did I say that this is embarrassing? Because creatives, Because creatives, Because creatives, we have to just admit here for a moment, we have to just admit here for a moment, we have to just admit here for a moment, that we we are so precious about that we we are so precious about that we we are so precious about the creative choices that we make.

the creative choices that we make. the creative choices that we make. >> Yeah. Right? And and I I am right there >> Yeah. Right? And and I I am right there >> Yeah. Right? And and I I am right there with you. We're like, okay, like, no, with you. We're like, okay, like, no, with you. We're like, okay, like, no, no, no. The depth of field needs to be a no, no. The depth of field needs to be a no, no. The depth of field needs to be a bit more shallow. Let's raise the blacks bit more shallow. Let's raise the blacks bit more shallow. Let's raise the blacks a little bit. I don't want a zero black a little bit. I don't want a zero black a little bit. I don't want a zero black point. Let's raise the blacks. Okay, no, point. Let's raise the blacks. Okay, no, point. Let's raise the blacks. Okay, no, add a light I I need a little hair light add a light I I need a little hair light add a light I I need a little hair light to separate them from the backgrounds. to separate them from the backgrounds. to separate them from the backgrounds. Okay, no, the caption No, the line Okay, no, the caption No, the line Okay, no, the caption No, the line height you When you set a line height, height you When you set a line height, height you When you set a line height, do you think? Do you use your brain? do you think? Do you use your brain? do you think? Do you use your brain? Because that is too cramped. Well, Because that is too cramped. Well, Because that is too cramped. Well, that's way too big now. Meet in the that's way too big now. Meet in the that's way too big now. Meet in the middle. middle. middle. Like we care so much about those things. Like we care so much about those things. Like we care so much about those things. Yeah. And the reality right now Yeah. And the reality right now Yeah. And the reality right now is that none of them are going to earn is that none of them are going to earn is that none of them are going to earn you 568% you 568% you 568% increase. increase. increase. >> so much. I care so much about something >> so much. I care so much about something >> so much. I care so much about something that has no that has no that has no It makes no difference. It makes no difference. It makes no difference. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that to be like that was like the And that to be like that was like the And that to be like that was like the when I used the word embarrassing that when I used the word embarrassing that when I used the word embarrassing that was the word I thought of for me. Okay, was the word I thought of for me. Okay, was the word I thought of for me. Okay, because I get so precious about these because I get so precious about these because I get so precious about these things. I've talked about this on the things. I've talked about this on the things. I've talked about this on the show. Like my show. Like my show. Like my journey Yeah. towards decoupling how I journey Yeah. towards decoupling how I journey Yeah. towards decoupling how I feel when a singular post doesn't feel when a singular post doesn't feel when a singular post doesn't perform and how I've had to migrate my perform and how I've had to migrate my perform and how I've had to migrate my affection from that towards views per affection from that towards views per affection from that towards views per day because that is this combined metric day because that is this combined metric day because that is this combined metric that smooths out peaks and valleys to that smooths out peaks and valleys to that smooths out peaks and valleys to more accurately say this is how many more accurately say this is how many more accurately say this is how many people are interacting with you, people are interacting with you, people are interacting with you, interacting with your church. Track that interacting with your church. Track that interacting with your church. Track that on a 90-day basis. Track that on a on a 90-day basis. Track that on a on a 90-day basis. Track that on a 30-day basis. That is actually useful 30-day basis. That is actually useful 30-day basis. That is actually useful and actionable.

and actionable. and actionable. Do not obsess over these creative Do not obsess over these creative Do not obsess over these creative differences and these precious little differences and these precious little differences and these precious little things things things or if we do and we will continue to do or if we do and we will continue to do or if we do and we will continue to do that we have to just at least be honest that we have to just at least be honest that we have to just at least be honest that they're probably not moving the that they're probably not moving the that they're probably not moving the needle and that that is distinct from needle and that that is distinct from needle and that that is distinct from how it was a year ago, two years ago, how it was a year ago, two years ago, how it was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, four years ago. three years ago, four years ago. three years ago, four years ago. I Okay, here's a perfect example of I Okay, here's a perfect example of I Okay, here's a perfect example of this. this. this. Was on a call with the church yesterday. Was on a call with the church yesterday. Was on a call with the church yesterday. And look, this is going to hurt us all. And look, this is going to hurt us all. And look, this is going to hurt us all. Okay? I want you to prepare your prepare Okay? I want you to prepare your prepare Okay? I want you to prepare your prepare your heart to be hurt. your heart to be hurt. your heart to be hurt. >> not embarrassed already it's about to be >> not embarrassed already it's about to be >> not embarrassed already it's about to be hurting now. So hurting now. So hurting now. So I I I I'm on the call with the church and they I'm on the call with the church and they I'm on the call with the church and they say, "Hey, I keep seeing this guy on my say, "Hey, I keep seeing this guy on my say, "Hey, I keep seeing this guy on my feed feed feed and like and like and like his stuff is like not that great but his stuff is like not that great but his stuff is like not that great but like it just keeps showing up on my like it just keeps showing up on my like it just keeps showing up on my feed. feed. feed. And why why do I see him and I don't see And why why do I see him and I don't see And why why do I see him and I don't see like Craig Rochelle? like Craig Rochelle? like Craig Rochelle? And I thought, "Hmm, okay. Let's try to And I thought, "Hmm, okay. Let's try to And I thought, "Hmm, okay. Let's try to diagnose this on the call." So I go to diagnose this on the call." So I go to diagnose this on the call." So I go to this guy's name is Joe Wood. I go to Joe this guy's name is Joe Wood. I go to Joe this guy's name is Joe Wood. I go to Joe Wood's Instagram account. He has like Wood's Instagram account. He has like Wood's Instagram account. He has like 600,000 followers, okay? And then I go 600,000 followers, okay? And then I go 600,000 followers, okay? And then I go to Craig Rochelle's to Craig Rochelle's to Craig Rochelle's and he's got like 1.2 million. So and he's got like 1.2 million. So and he's got like 1.2 million. So they're they could be very similar.

they're they could be very similar. they're they could be very similar. Somewhat comparable even though Craig Somewhat comparable even though Craig Somewhat comparable even though Craig Rochelle does have twice as many. Rochelle does have twice as many. Rochelle does have twice as many. We're talking hundreds of thousands. We're talking hundreds of thousands. We're talking hundreds of thousands. Craig Rochelle proposed was definitely Craig Rochelle proposed was definitely Craig Rochelle proposed was definitely getting more likes getting more likes getting more likes more views, more engagement. But he was more views, more engagement. But he was more views, more engagement. But he was posting one to two times per day, at posting one to two times per day, at posting one to two times per day, at least over the past 2 weeks. least over the past 2 weeks. least over the past 2 weeks. Joe Wood was posting three to five times Joe Wood was posting three to five times Joe Wood was posting three to five times per day. per day. per day. And I said, "Well, this is the perfect And I said, "Well, this is the perfect And I said, "Well, this is the perfect example example example of what we're talking about with your of what we're talking about with your of what we're talking about with your metrics, which is this guy is more metrics, which is this guy is more metrics, which is this guy is more visible to you. On a per post basis, he visible to you. On a per post basis, he visible to you. On a per post basis, he is getting obliterated by Craig is getting obliterated by Craig is getting obliterated by Craig Rochelle. But that's not what matters in Rochelle. But that's not what matters in Rochelle. But that's not what matters in terms of branding and visibility because terms of branding and visibility because terms of branding and visibility because you're seeing this guy what feels like you're seeing this guy what feels like you're seeing this guy what feels like all over. But look at this post. He's all over. But look at this post. He's all over. But look at this post. He's got 600,000 followers, 300 likes. That's got 600,000 followers, 300 likes. That's got 600,000 followers, 300 likes. That's not good in terms of how we would not good in terms of how we would not good in terms of how we would traditionally measure social media traditionally measure social media traditionally measure social media performance, but we have to look at the performance, but we have to look at the performance, but we have to look at the whole and not the individual." whole and not the individual." whole and not the individual." >> you made the lottery example already, >> you made the lottery example already, >> you made the lottery example already, and forgive me, anyone who's familiar and forgive me, anyone who's familiar and forgive me, anyone who's familiar with how the game of roulette works. I with how the game of roulette works. I with how the game of roulette works. I don't know anything about it, but I'm don't know anything about it, but I'm don't know anything about it, but I'm assuming there's equal blacks and equal assuming there's equal blacks and equal assuming there's equal blacks and equal reds. reds. reds. >> Sounds reasonable. >> Sounds reasonable. >> Sounds reasonable. >> And what you're talking about here is >> And what you're talking about here is >> And what you're talking about here is we've talked about algorithmic luck and we've talked about algorithmic luck and we've talked about algorithmic luck and and and kind of functioning like a and and kind of functioning like a and and kind of functioning like a lottery. We're talking about a roulette lottery. We're talking about a roulette lottery. We're talking about a roulette wheel, right? Where Joe Wood's got more wheel, right? Where Joe Wood's got more wheel, right? Where Joe Wood's got more reds. Uh if he's red and Craig Rochelle reds. Uh if he's red and Craig Rochelle reds. Uh if he's red and Craig Rochelle is black, like there's more reds than is black, like there's more reds than is black, like there's more reds than blacks on that wheel. And so blacks on that wheel. And so blacks on that wheel. And so statistically, he's just it's going to statistically, he's just it's going to statistically, he's just it's going to land on red more than it's going to land land on red more than it's going to land land on red more than it's going to land on black, and that's just because he's on black, and that's just because he's on black, and that's just because he's posting more times a day. He's got more posting more times a day. He's got more posting more times a day. He's got more chances, chances, chances, uh you know, giving more chances to the uh you know, giving more chances to the uh you know, giving more chances to the algorithm to surface his content for algorithm to surface his content for algorithm to surface his content for folks who are folks who are folks who are in the church space. And for this in the church space. And for this in the church space. And for this church, obviously on that phone call, church, obviously on that phone call, church, obviously on that phone call, there's enough shared kind of mutual

there's enough shared kind of mutual there's enough shared kind of mutual interest with their algorithm that, you interest with their algorithm that, you interest with their algorithm that, you know, they're seeing Joe Wood more than know, they're seeing Joe Wood more than know, they're seeing Joe Wood more than they get to see Craig Rochelle. they get to see Craig Rochelle. they get to see Craig Rochelle. That is correct. That is correct. That is correct. >> So, uh let's let's be clear on what this >> So, uh let's let's be clear on what this >> So, uh let's let's be clear on what this what this doesn't mean. I don't want it what this doesn't mean. I don't want it what this doesn't mean. I don't want it to be interpreted incorrectly. It to be interpreted incorrectly. It to be interpreted incorrectly. It doesn't mean that quality does not doesn't mean that quality does not doesn't mean that quality does not matter at all, right? Otherwise, the matter at all, right? Otherwise, the matter at all, right? Otherwise, the easy answer would just be let's throw a easy answer would just be let's throw a easy answer would just be let's throw a sermon into an AI clipper. We'll get 30 sermon into an AI clipper. We'll get 30 sermon into an AI clipper. We'll get 30 reels, we'll spam the feed, and like we reels, we'll spam the feed, and like we reels, we'll spam the feed, and like we win. Yeah, or just start start posting a win. Yeah, or just start start posting a win. Yeah, or just start start posting a bunch of quote posts or, you know, stuff bunch of quote posts or, you know, stuff bunch of quote posts or, you know, stuff we were doing we were doing we were doing seven, eight years ago. It's seven, eight years ago. It's seven, eight years ago. It's more more volume of any variety of more more volume of any variety of more more volume of any variety of volume doesn't get you kind of this this volume doesn't get you kind of this this volume doesn't get you kind of this this guaranteed outcome that we're talking guaranteed outcome that we're talking guaranteed outcome that we're talking about. about. about. >> And it doesn't mean that design and >> And it doesn't mean that design and >> And it doesn't mean that design and creativity are worthless, just that creativity are worthless, just that creativity are worthless, just that we've probably overvalued them and then we've probably overvalued them and then we've probably overvalued them and then that's a little bit of humbling that's a little bit of humbling that's a little bit of humbling a realization to come to. What this does a realization to come to. What this does a realization to come to. What this does mean is and this is really the core mean is and this is really the core mean is and this is really the core thesis of this podcast, which is most thesis of this podcast, which is most thesis of this podcast, which is most churches are not close to the volume churches are not close to the volume churches are not close to the volume threshold where quality becomes a threshold where quality becomes a threshold where quality becomes a differentiator. differentiator. differentiator. And the churches that are outperforming And the churches that are outperforming And the churches that are outperforming yours, whether in this universe or a yours, whether in this universe or a yours, whether in this universe or a different version of you as a different version of you as a different version of you as a hypothetical, I'm not claiming anything hypothetical, I'm not claiming anything hypothetical, I'm not claiming anything theological theological theological >> here.

Those churches are probably not more Those churches are probably not more creative. They're probably just showing creative. They're probably just showing creative. They're probably just showing up more. up more. up more. >> Yeah. And the easy analogy to make with >> Yeah. And the easy analogy to make with >> Yeah. And the easy analogy to make with this is like diet and nutrition and like this is like diet and nutrition and like this is like diet and nutrition and like working out, being the healthiest working out, being the healthiest working out, being the healthiest version of yourself. Like every single version of yourself. Like every single version of yourself. Like every single day, what do we see on our feeds or on day, what do we see on our feeds or on day, what do we see on our feeds or on the internet? Someone will say, "Oh, the internet? Someone will say, "Oh, the internet? Someone will say, "Oh, actually actually actually the secret ingredient that's killing us the secret ingredient that's killing us the secret ingredient that's killing us all is this. all is this. all is this. Actually and and and every generation Actually and and and every generation Actually and and and every generation has their own thing, right? has their own thing, right? has their own thing, right? >> And tomorrow it's actually it's not >> And tomorrow it's actually it's not >> And tomorrow it's actually it's not that, it's this. Poor coffee has been that, it's this. Poor coffee has been that, it's this. Poor coffee has been like demonized and resurrected as the like demonized and resurrected as the like demonized and resurrected as the elixir of life or the cause of all elixir of life or the cause of all elixir of life or the cause of all cancers like every other day and that's cancers like every other day and that's cancers like every other day and that's because a new study will come out, get because a new study will come out, get because a new study will come out, get misinterpreted. It's you know, and it's misinterpreted. It's you know, and it's misinterpreted. It's you know, and it's really impossible to study these things really impossible to study these things really impossible to study these things because you actually can't except for because you actually can't except for because you actually can't except for that one dude, Brian Johnson, who's that one dude, Brian Johnson, who's that one dude, Brian Johnson, who's literally going to tell us the secrets literally going to tell us the secrets literally going to tell us the secrets because he tracks everything. because he tracks everything. because he tracks everything. You know why we can't figure out You know why we can't figure out You know why we can't figure out anything about food and nutrition? anything about food and nutrition? anything about food and nutrition? Because we ask Alex, "Hey, what did you Because we ask Alex, "Hey, what did you Because we ask Alex, "Hey, what did you eat yesterday?" He's like, "Uh eat yesterday?" He's like, "Uh eat yesterday?" He's like, "Uh I think it was like I had like three I think it was like I had like three I think it was like I had like three coffees." Well, there you go, coffee's coffees." Well, there you go, coffee's coffees." Well, there you go, coffee's the problem. Like that's how these guys the problem. Like that's how these guys the problem. Like that's how these guys actually go. Right, what do we know actually go. Right, what do we know actually go. Right, what do we know that's actually true? that's actually true? that's actually true? Eat less, move more, good things happen.

Eat less, move more, good things happen. Eat less, move more, good things happen. And like what's true about diet, And like what's true about diet, And like what's true about diet, nutrition, and working out is that the nutrition, and working out is that the nutrition, and working out is that the simplest stuff is always what's true. simplest stuff is always what's true. simplest stuff is always what's true. And yet, we all want to focus on like And yet, we all want to focus on like And yet, we all want to focus on like these extreme things and be like it's these extreme things and be like it's these extreme things and be like it's actually seed oils. If I only ate beef actually seed oils. If I only ate beef actually seed oils. If I only ate beef only, if Atkins, let's remove all fat only, if Atkins, let's remove all fat only, if Atkins, let's remove all fat from a previous generation, keto from from a previous generation, keto from from a previous generation, keto from Arrogant. There's all these extreme Arrogant. There's all these extreme Arrogant. There's all these extreme things and and they're all basically things and and they're all basically things and and they're all basically these counterfeit versions of like the these counterfeit versions of like the these counterfeit versions of like the basic simple truth. And that's what's basic simple truth. And that's what's basic simple truth. And that's what's true about social as well, right? Like true about social as well, right? Like true about social as well, right? Like it's just post more and good things it's just post more and good things it's just post more and good things happen. And sometimes the good thing happen. And sometimes the good thing happen. And sometimes the good thing that happens is that you get better at that happens is that you get better at that happens is that you get better at it because you're just doing more. And it because you're just doing more. And it because you're just doing more. And that's a really important part about that's a really important part about that's a really important part about this. Like and working out, the analogy this. Like and working out, the analogy this. Like and working out, the analogy holds true there. holds true there. holds true there. >> Totally. Like the first time you do a >> Totally. Like the first time you do a >> Totally. Like the first time you do a movement, it's going to be like, that movement, it's going to be like, that movement, it's going to be like, that felt weird and it really hurt for a few felt weird and it really hurt for a few felt weird and it really hurt for a few days. And then you do it a few times days. And then you do it a few times days. And then you do it a few times more and you go, oh, okay, the movement more and you go, oh, okay, the movement more and you go, oh, okay, the movement needs to go like this. Before I wasn't needs to go like this. Before I wasn't needs to go like this. Before I wasn't bracing correctly. But and you learn all bracing correctly. But and you learn all bracing correctly. But and you learn all these things that you can only learn these things that you can only learn these things that you can only learn from actually doing it. from actually doing it. from actually doing it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. So, So, So, the big question is why are our churches the big question is why are our churches the big question is why are our churches posting so little and like what is posting so little and like what is posting so little and like what is stopping us from stopping us from stopping us from >> that. Most churches probably aren't even >> that. Most churches probably aren't even >> that. Most churches probably aren't even close to the threshold of how much they close to the threshold of how much they close to the threshold of how much they could reasonably post.

could reasonably post. could reasonably post. >> Yes, I will pause here and say we just >> Yes, I will pause here and say we just >> Yes, I will pause here and say we just launched recently a really cool new launched recently a really cool new launched recently a really cool new project where we will give your church a project where we will give your church a project where we will give your church a free social media audit. One of the free social media audit. One of the free social media audit. One of the things I I know is true about these things I I know is true about these things I I know is true about these episodes is that like we can use episodes is that like we can use episodes is that like we can use examples from churches, which is really examples from churches, which is really examples from churches, which is really useful and more useful than us just like useful and more useful than us just like useful and more useful than us just like talking about broad advice or talking talking about broad advice or talking talking about broad advice or talking about our own personal learnings, but about our own personal learnings, but about our own personal learnings, but when you can get personalized feedback when you can get personalized feedback when you can get personalized feedback for what your church is actually doing, for what your church is actually doing, for what your church is actually doing, it's a lot more valuable. If you go to it's a lot more valuable. If you go to it's a lot more valuable. If you go to auditmychurch.com, auditmychurch.com, auditmychurch.com, we'll just have you upload a few we'll just have you upload a few we'll just have you upload a few screenshots of your data, of how much screenshots of your data, of how much screenshots of your data, of how much you're posting, of where you're posting, you're posting, of where you're posting, you're posting, of where you're posting, and then within 24 hours, give or take, and then within 24 hours, give or take, and then within 24 hours, give or take, if it's the weekend it might be a bit if it's the weekend it might be a bit if it's the weekend it might be a bit longer, we will get a audit of your longer, we will get a audit of your longer, we will get a audit of your social media back to your church. And so social media back to your church. And so social media back to your church. And so everything that we're about to talk everything that we're about to talk everything that we're about to talk about, you can contextualize personally about, you can contextualize personally about, you can contextualize personally based on what we're seeing. based on what we're seeing. based on what we're seeing. auditmychurch.com. So, auditmychurch.com. So, auditmychurch.com. So, the day we're recording this, I've done the day we're recording this, I've done the day we're recording this, I've done about 50 of these audits. about 50 of these audits. about 50 of these audits. And And And 70% of them landed in the low frequency 70% of them landed in the low frequency 70% of them landed in the low frequency bucket. bucket. bucket. So, what that means is like So, what that means is like So, what that means is like you're just not posting enough as a you're just not posting enough as a you're just not posting enough as a church. Most churches are in that place.

church. Most churches are in that place. church. Most churches are in that place. The good news is this. The good news is this. The good news is this. More than half of all the audits that we More than half of all the audits that we More than half of all the audits that we did landed in the quadrant that we call did landed in the quadrant that we call did landed in the quadrant that we call high VPD. Now, remember that's views per high VPD. Now, remember that's views per high VPD. Now, remember that's views per day. High VPD, low frequency. day. High VPD, low frequency. day. High VPD, low frequency. That means That means That means your posts are good. Mhm. There just your posts are good. Mhm. There just your posts are good. Mhm. There just needs to be more of them. What's needs to be more of them. What's needs to be more of them. What's standing in the way? Five things that we standing in the way? Five things that we standing in the way? Five things that we normally see. The first one we call the normally see. The first one we call the normally see. The first one we call the bandwidth bottleneck. So, this is your bandwidth bottleneck. So, this is your bandwidth bottleneck. So, this is your comms person is maxed out. They're comms person is maxed out. They're comms person is maxed out. They're spread across announcements, graphics, spread across announcements, graphics, spread across announcements, graphics, emails, website. Social media is getting emails, website. Social media is getting emails, website. Social media is getting whatever time is left, which is probably whatever time is left, which is probably whatever time is left, which is probably not enough to post at the volume level not enough to post at the volume level not enough to post at the volume level required for growth. And for us, this is required for growth. And for us, this is required for growth. And for us, this is the number one thing. the number one thing. the number one thing. >> Mhm. It's not creativity, it's just >> Mhm. It's not creativity, it's just >> Mhm. It's not creativity, it's just like, do you have the capacity to do like, do you have the capacity to do like, do you have the capacity to do this? Second thing, the one and done. this? Second thing, the one and done. this? Second thing, the one and done. This is where the creative and spiritual This is where the creative and spiritual This is where the creative and spiritual effort that's put in by the pastor effort that's put in by the pastor effort that's put in by the pastor produces one social post. Produces two produces one social post. Produces two produces one social post. Produces two social posts, max. When it could be social posts, max. When it could be social posts, max. When it could be five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, let's five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, let's five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, let's say. say. say. >> Sermon's such a huge piece of content >> Sermon's such a huge piece of content >> Sermon's such a huge piece of content that can be, you know, partitioned into that can be, you know, partitioned into that can be, you know, partitioned into multiple pieces of content. If you think multiple pieces of content. If you think multiple pieces of content. If you think about the math, like, how often How many about the math, like, how often How many about the math, like, how often How many hours do you spend preparing a sermon?

hours do you spend preparing a sermon? hours do you spend preparing a sermon? Oh, yeah. Probably, like at this time in Oh, yeah. Probably, like at this time in Oh, yeah. Probably, like at this time in my life, maybe 10 to 15. Right. So, 10 my life, maybe 10 to 15. Right. So, 10 my life, maybe 10 to 15. Right. So, 10 to 15 * 52 weeks a year, because even if to 15 * 52 weeks a year, because even if to 15 * 52 weeks a year, because even if Alex is not preaching every week Alex is not preaching every week Alex is not preaching every week >> is. Somebody is. Like, if it's 15 to 20, >> is. Somebody is. Like, if it's 15 to 20, >> is. Somebody is. Like, if it's 15 to 20, that's like 800 plus hours. So, maybe that's like 800 plus hours. So, maybe that's like 800 plus hours. So, maybe you're at 600 hours, or even if you get you're at 600 hours, or even if you get you're at 600 hours, or even if you get it down to 10 minutes. Like, that's it down to 10 minutes. Like, that's it down to 10 minutes. Like, that's still 400 hours, or 520 hours across an still 400 hours, or 520 hours across an still 400 hours, or 520 hours across an entire year. Like, entire year. Like, entire year. Like, that's so much work for it to produce that's so much work for it to produce that's so much work for it to produce like, like, like, you know, a couple dozen posts. Like, meat being left on the bone. meat being left on the bone. >> Yeah. Number three, the insider curse. >> Yeah. Number three, the insider curse. >> Yeah. Number three, the insider curse. One that we see a lot. When you work at One that we see a lot. When you work at One that we see a lot. When you work at church, you can be so close to the week church, you can be so close to the week church, you can be so close to the week in and week out rhythms. It's very in and week out rhythms. It's very in and week out rhythms. It's very difficult to get an outsider difficult to get an outsider difficult to get an outsider perspective. And so, what we see is perspective. And so, what we see is perspective. And so, what we see is sometimes content being made that just sometimes content being made that just sometimes content being made that just like lives in this echo chamber, where like lives in this echo chamber, where like lives in this echo chamber, where it never has a chance to break out it never has a chance to break out it never has a chance to break out because it's not living at the because it's not living at the because it's not living at the intersection of faith and culture. It's intersection of faith and culture. It's intersection of faith and culture. It's just like what it feels like to be just like what it feels like to be just like what it feels like to be on the insiders club. And that insiders on the insiders club. And that insiders on the insiders club. And that insiders curse is that you just It's really hard curse is that you just It's really hard curse is that you just It's really hard to get that perspective. to get that perspective. to get that perspective. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Third thing is the the AI trap. So, this Third thing is the the AI trap. So, this Third thing is the the AI trap. So, this goes back to what we said, "Churches goes back to what we said, "Churches goes back to what we said, "Churches think post more." So, okay, let's like think post more." So, okay, let's like think post more." So, okay, let's like spam the feed with sermon clips. Look, spam the feed with sermon clips. Look, spam the feed with sermon clips. Look, generally, for sermon clips, we're generally, for sermon clips, we're generally, for sermon clips, we're looking at two to three per sermon, and looking at two to three per sermon, and looking at two to three per sermon, and then we'll use a carousel, we'll use a then we'll use a carousel, we'll use a then we'll use a carousel, we'll use a quote, we'll use like a quote, we'll use like a quote, we'll use like a You can get like upwards of 10 posts, You can get like upwards of 10 posts, You can get like upwards of 10 posts, but you need to like mix up the content but you need to like mix up the content but you need to like mix up the content variety and formatting if you're going variety and formatting if you're going variety and formatting if you're going to do that.

to do that. to do that. So, So, So, here, here, here, the downside is your volume increases, the downside is your volume increases, the downside is your volume increases, but your VPD does not. So, you might end but your VPD does not. So, you might end but your VPD does not. So, you might end up as a low VPD, high frequency church, up as a low VPD, high frequency church, up as a low VPD, high frequency church, which is the opposite of what we're which is the opposite of what we're which is the opposite of what we're seeing for most. Yeah. So, this isn't a seeing for most. Yeah. So, this isn't a seeing for most. Yeah. So, this isn't a thing that happens to most churches, but thing that happens to most churches, but thing that happens to most churches, but it is something that we see, you know, it is something that we see, you know, it is something that we see, you know, 25% of the time, where there's tons of 25% of the time, where there's tons of 25% of the time, where there's tons of posting, but like posting, but like posting, but like at some point people have judged it as at some point people have judged it as at some point people have judged it as like the quality it has And the like the quality it has And the like the quality it has And the algorithm will respond to that. Right. algorithm will respond to that. Right. algorithm will respond to that. Right. Yeah. So, the way we like to say it is Yeah. So, the way we like to say it is Yeah. So, the way we like to say it is like unsupervised AI creates quantity like unsupervised AI creates quantity like unsupervised AI creates quantity without quality. So, AI for efficiency, without quality. So, AI for efficiency, without quality. So, AI for efficiency, yes, we use it all the time. Human yes, we use it all the time. Human yes, we use it all the time. Human judgment for quality. Okay? And then the judgment for quality. Okay? And then the judgment for quality. Okay? And then the final is the consistency cliff. This is final is the consistency cliff. This is final is the consistency cliff. This is what happens when you don't obey the no what happens when you don't obey the no what happens when you don't obey the no weeks off mantra. weeks off mantra. weeks off mantra. Big push, followed by silence, Big push, followed by silence, Big push, followed by silence, maybe two to three weeks of nothing, maybe two to three weeks of nothing, maybe two to three weeks of nothing, then there's a throwaway post. We see then there's a throwaway post. We see then there's a throwaway post. We see this all the time aligning with the big this all the time aligning with the big this all the time aligning with the big pushes in person. So, like a flurry of pushes in person. So, like a flurry of pushes in person. So, like a flurry of content around Christmas, a flurry of content around Christmas, a flurry of content around Christmas, a flurry of content around Easter, a flurry of content around Easter, a flurry of content around Easter, a flurry of content around content around content around whatever big thing that you have, whatever big thing that you have, whatever big thing that you have, and then nothing. Nothing wrong with and then nothing. Nothing wrong with and then nothing. Nothing wrong with like increasing volume like increasing volume like increasing volume leading up to those big events.

leading up to those big events. leading up to those big events. When you regress to the baseline, the When you regress to the baseline, the When you regress to the baseline, the baseline just can't be nothing. Exactly. baseline just can't be nothing. Exactly. baseline just can't be nothing. Exactly. Precisely. So, Precisely. So, Precisely. So, how to actually post more. how to actually post more. how to actually post more. Alex mentioned one of my favorite Alex mentioned one of my favorite Alex mentioned one of my favorite tactics earlier, which is repost your tactics earlier, which is repost your tactics earlier, which is repost your winners. Right now, we're doing about winners. Right now, we're doing about winners. Right now, we're doing about 20% of our content, so one out of every 20% of our content, so one out of every 20% of our content, so one out of every five is something that we have published five is something that we have published five is something that we have published before. Something that we have published before. Something that we have published before. Something that we have published before, and the people of ProChurch before, and the people of ProChurch before, and the people of ProChurch Nation, you that are listening and Nation, you that are listening and Nation, you that are listening and watching on Spotify, watching on Spotify, watching on Spotify, have said, "Hey, this is like really have said, "Hey, this is like really have said, "Hey, this is like really great." with your time, your attention, great." with your time, your attention, great." with your time, your attention, and your uh thumbs, liking, commenting, and your uh thumbs, liking, commenting, and your uh thumbs, liking, commenting, sharing, saving. sharing, saving. sharing, saving. And we just log that and then do it And we just log that and then do it And we just log that and then do it again. Uh I follow a guy on Instagram again. Uh I follow a guy on Instagram again. Uh I follow a guy on Instagram and he was saying and he was saying and he was saying uh uh uh 50 to 70% of his content is reposted. 50 to 70% of his content is reposted. 50 to 70% of his content is reposted. And he's in that like three to five And he's in that like three to five And he's in that like three to five times per day like frequency, which to times per day like frequency, which to times per day like frequency, which to me I'm still like me I'm still like me I'm still like No. No. No. >> That's a lot. >> That's a lot. >> That's a lot. >> No. I don't And and and the numbers >> No. I don't And and and the numbers >> No. I don't And and and the numbers would say otherwise. And that's why like would say otherwise. And that's why like would say otherwise. And that's why like even I'm saying, I'm trying to stay true even I'm saying, I'm trying to stay true even I'm saying, I'm trying to stay true to the data, but this is what's so to the data, but this is what's so to the data, but this is what's so embarrassing. I've always followed the embarrassing. I've always followed the embarrassing. I've always followed the data. The word embarrassing is for me, data. The word embarrassing is for me, data. The word embarrassing is for me, okay? All right. I I'll cop to it. It's okay? All right. I I'll cop to it. It's okay? All right. I I'll cop to it. It's for me cuz I'm always like, "Follow the for me cuz I'm always like, "Follow the for me cuz I'm always like, "Follow the data." And and I'm like, "But my heart data." And and I'm like, "But my heart data." And and I'm like, "But my heart says no." like and and and says no." like and and and says no." like and and and it's tricky.

it's tricky. it's tricky. So, So, So, reposting your winners. reposting your winners. reposting your winners. The other thing to do is switch to The other thing to do is switch to The other thing to do is switch to the views per day metric as what you're the views per day metric as what you're the views per day metric as what you're looking at because you can't decouple looking at because you can't decouple looking at because you can't decouple yourself from like holding each post yourself from like holding each post yourself from like holding each post precious until you're measuring it precious until you're measuring it precious until you're measuring it differently, right? To again use the differently, right? To again use the differently, right? To again use the fitness analogy, fitness analogy, fitness analogy, how many of us at times of our lives how many of us at times of our lives how many of us at times of our lives have like stood on the scale and been have like stood on the scale and been have like stood on the scale and been like, "I only care about this scale like, "I only care about this scale like, "I only care about this scale number." But like the scale number could number." But like the scale number could number." But like the scale number could like increase and you could be getting like increase and you could be getting like increase and you could be getting healthier. It could decrease and you healthier. It could decrease and you healthier. It could decrease and you could be getting unhealthier. There are could be getting unhealthier. There are could be getting unhealthier. There are multiple different, you know, biological multiple different, you know, biological multiple different, you know, biological mechanisms that could produce that. mechanisms that could produce that. mechanisms that could produce that. >> Yeah. And so like you can't just look at >> Yeah. And so like you can't just look at >> Yeah. And so like you can't just look at a singular number, you have to look at a singular number, you have to look at a singular number, you have to look at it holistically or choose different it holistically or choose different it holistically or choose different numbers altogether. numbers altogether. numbers altogether. >> Mhm. Like if my weight is going up on >> Mhm. Like if my weight is going up on >> Mhm. Like if my weight is going up on the scale, but like I do like a waist the scale, but like I do like a waist the scale, but like I do like a waist measurement and it shows the same, well, measurement and it shows the same, well, measurement and it shows the same, well, what is that telling me? Hey, you gained what is that telling me? Hey, you gained what is that telling me? Hey, you gained some muscle or something, but like you some muscle or something, but like you some muscle or something, but like you probably didn't gain like a ton of body probably didn't gain like a ton of body probably didn't gain like a ton of body fat, so that's a good thing. So, that's fat, so that's a good thing. So, that's fat, so that's a good thing. So, that's a more smart look at data in that a more smart look at data in that a more smart look at data in that context. Here we're saying, "Don't look context. Here we're saying, "Don't look context. Here we're saying, "Don't look at your individual posts. Look at your at your individual posts. Look at your at your individual posts. Look at your views per day. If you can do that, you views per day. If you can do that, you views per day. If you can do that, you can probably get your mind into a place can probably get your mind into a place can probably get your mind into a place where you could produce more content and where you could produce more content and where you could produce more content and not feel weird about it."

not feel weird about it." not feel weird about it." >> Well, that's why the Joe Wood example is >> Well, that's why the Joe Wood example is >> Well, that's why the Joe Wood example is a good one, right? Because you look at a good one, right? Because you look at a good one, right? Because you look at some of his posts and like you said, some of his posts and like you said, some of his posts and like you said, 600,000 followers on Instagram, some of 600,000 followers on Instagram, some of 600,000 followers on Instagram, some of his posts have 300 likes, whatever, but his posts have 300 likes, whatever, but his posts have 300 likes, whatever, but he he doesn't go to sleep worrying about he he doesn't go to sleep worrying about he he doesn't go to sleep worrying about that because he knows that he's showing that because he knows that he's showing that because he knows that he's showing up in the the person that that you up in the the person that that you up in the the person that that you talked to on the phone, he's showing up talked to on the phone, he's showing up talked to on the phone, he's showing up in her feed more than the people that in her feed more than the people that in her feed more than the people that she wants to be showing up in her feed. she wants to be showing up in her feed. she wants to be showing up in her feed. And that's just because he's posting And that's just because he's posting And that's just because he's posting more. And so, if you were to look if at more. And so, if you were to look if at more. And so, if you were to look if at his analytics and look at Views for Day, his analytics and look at Views for Day, his analytics and look at Views for Day, he's probably pretty happy with he's probably pretty happy with he's probably pretty happy with with how often his content is is being with how often his content is is being with how often his content is is being viewed even though some of the posts are viewed even though some of the posts are viewed even though some of the posts are are not being viewed as much as you are not being viewed as much as you are not being viewed as much as you would expect them to with a follower would expect them to with a follower would expect them to with a follower base of that size. base of that size. base of that size. But that's that's just kind of the the But that's that's just kind of the the But that's that's just kind of the the the environment we're posting into now the environment we're posting into now the environment we're posting into now in an age where Adam Mosseri said it a in an age where Adam Mosseri said it a in an age where Adam Mosseri said it a long time ago and it seems to be even long time ago and it seems to be even long time ago and it seems to be even more true now than it was when he said more true now than it was when he said more true now than it was when he said it, that the supply, the volume of it, that the supply, the volume of it, that the supply, the volume of content on these apps is just much more content on these apps is just much more content on these apps is just much more than anyone could realistically consume. than anyone could realistically consume. than anyone could realistically consume. And so, we leave it up to the algorithms And so, we leave it up to the algorithms And so, we leave it up to the algorithms to choose what to show us. to choose what to show us. to choose what to show us. So, we just have to be feeding them more So, we just have to be feeding them more So, we just have to be feeding them more more chances to show our stuff to the more chances to show our stuff to the more chances to show our stuff to the people who are looking for, you know, people who are looking for, you know, people who are looking for, you know, for anyone who works in church and who's for anyone who works in church and who's for anyone who works in church and who's spent any time talking to a young spent any time talking to a young spent any time talking to a young person, someone in Gen Z, like person, someone in Gen Z, like person, someone in Gen Z, like people people people who are on these apps, who are using the who are on these apps, who are using the who are on these apps, who are using the internet, are eagerly desperate for the internet, are eagerly desperate for the internet, are eagerly desperate for the type of truth that we are talking about type of truth that we are talking about type of truth that we are talking about in our churches. Our young people are in our churches. Our young people are in our churches. Our young people are just they've tried the the secular just they've tried the the secular just they've tried the the secular thing, the post-postmodern thing, and thing, the post-postmodern thing, and thing, the post-postmodern thing, and realized that it was kind of void of any realized that it was kind of void of any realized that it was kind of void of any meaning. And so, now they're just like, meaning. And so, now they're just like, meaning. And so, now they're just like, "Yeah, I need something that like exists "Yeah, I need something that like exists "Yeah, I need something that like exists outside of me. I need something more

outside of me. I need something more outside of me. I need something more than than than than than than whatever this cultural narrative has whatever this cultural narrative has whatever this cultural narrative has promised to me." And so, they're they're promised to me." And so, they're they're promised to me." And so, they're they're looking for looking for looking for videos and podcasts and they're just videos and podcasts and they're just videos and podcasts and they're just looking for content that finds itself at looking for content that finds itself at looking for content that finds itself at the intersection of culture and faith the intersection of culture and faith the intersection of culture and faith because they they they know there's got because they they they know there's got because they they they know there's got to be something more than than, you to be something more than than, you to be something more than than, you know, whatever Tik Tok is trying to tell know, whatever Tik Tok is trying to tell know, whatever Tik Tok is trying to tell me there is. And that's the content that me there is. And that's the content that me there is. And that's the content that is that that's the meat of our message, is that that's the meat of our message, is that that's the meat of our message, Right? That's That's the story of Jesus. Right? That's That's the story of Jesus. Right? That's That's the story of Jesus. That there is more. And we we retell the That there is more. And we we retell the That there is more. And we we retell the story every week every week every week. story every week every week every week. story every week every week every week. And people are longing for it. And so And people are longing for it. And so And people are longing for it. And so the more opportunities we give to the the more opportunities we give to the the more opportunities we give to the algorithms to put this content in front algorithms to put this content in front algorithms to put this content in front of people who we know are desperately of people who we know are desperately of people who we know are desperately looking, well, that's just good news all looking, well, that's just good news all looking, well, that's just good news all around if they get to see it. around if they get to see it. around if they get to see it. And you never know which post is going And you never know which post is going And you never know which post is going to be the one that connects with to be the one that connects with to be the one that connects with someone. I remember having a someone. I remember having a someone. I remember having a conversation with Jake from Church Front conversation with Jake from Church Front conversation with Jake from Church Front maybe a year or two ago. And we were on maybe a year or two ago. And we were on maybe a year or two ago. And we were on the phone and I was like, "Man, like the phone and I was like, "Man, like the phone and I was like, "Man, like you you're publishing a lot more on you you're publishing a lot more on you you're publishing a lot more on YouTube than I." And And Jake and I have YouTube than I." And And Jake and I have YouTube than I." And And Jake and I have talked, you know, over the years so many talked, you know, over the years so many talked, you know, over the years so many times because we both got started in a times because we both got started in a times because we both got started in a similar, you know, time.

similar, you know, time. similar, you know, time. And seeing Church Front on YouTube go And seeing Church Front on YouTube go And seeing Church Front on YouTube go from like zero to pushing 300,000 now, I from like zero to pushing 300,000 now, I from like zero to pushing 300,000 now, I think, has been so cool. think, has been so cool. think, has been so cool. There was a point where he started like There was a point where he started like There was a point where he started like publishing a lot more on YouTube. publishing a lot more on YouTube. publishing a lot more on YouTube. And I was like, "Jake, like one of your And I was like, "Jake, like one of your And I was like, "Jake, like one of your videos like recently it got like a videos like recently it got like a videos like recently it got like a really low view count." And he's like, really low view count." And he's like, really low view count." And he's like, "Yeah?" "Yeah?" "Yeah?" And I was like, And I was like, And I was like, "How did that make you feel?" And he was like, And he was like, "I don't know, man. Like "I don't know, man. Like "I don't know, man. Like who cares? Like that that video was like who cares? Like that that video was like who cares? Like that that video was like about a really niche topic. And we found about a really niche topic. And we found about a really niche topic. And we found that like a lot of people came from that that like a lot of people came from that that like a lot of people came from that video and like signed up for like this, video and like signed up for like this, video and like signed up for like this, you know, giant reconstruction that we you know, giant reconstruction that we you know, giant reconstruction that we were doing because it was so obscure were doing because it was so obscure were doing because it was so obscure that it met the right people. He's like, that it met the right people. He's like, that it met the right people. He's like, "That's what matters, not like "That's what matters, not like "That's what matters, not like if I if I if I I don't need like 100,000 on every I don't need like 100,000 on every I don't need like 100,000 on every single one." He's like, "You know, my single one." He's like, "You know, my single one." He's like, "You know, my Church Tech Tours like they get all the Church Tech Tours like they get all the Church Tech Tours like they get all the big numbers because people want to see big numbers because people want to see big numbers because people want to see what the big churches are doing, but what the big churches are doing, but what the big churches are doing, but they don't they you know, the conversion they don't they you know, the conversion they don't they you know, the conversion rate on those is like nothing compared rate on those is like nothing compared rate on those is like nothing compared to like to like to like >> Yeah, that's entertainment. >> Yeah, that's entertainment. >> Yeah, that's entertainment. >> Yeah. And I was like, "Oh." He's like, >> Yeah. And I was like, "Oh." He's like, >> Yeah. And I was like, "Oh." He's like, "You know, you really should know this." "You know, you really should know this." "You know, you really should know this." And I was like, And I was like, And I was like, "But Jake, I want every post to have "But Jake, I want every post to have "But Jake, I want every post to have this many views and I'll feel good about this many views and I'll feel good about this many views and I'll feel good about myself and it'll affirm my creative myself and it'll affirm my creative myself and it'll affirm my creative efforts." And he's like, efforts." And he's like, efforts." And he's like, "Anyway, um I'm moving to Florida and I "Anyway, um I'm moving to Florida and I "Anyway, um I'm moving to Florida and I got to go."

So, like And that's when you stopped So, like And that's when you stopped calling Jake and started calling your calling Jake and started calling your calling Jake and started calling your therapist. therapist. therapist. Jake was like, "You know, you can't use Jake was like, "You know, you can't use Jake was like, "You know, you can't use me as your therapist anymore. Oh, man. me as your therapist anymore. Oh, man. me as your therapist anymore. Oh, man. Sends you an invoice. I was like, Jacob, Sends you an invoice. I was like, Jacob, Sends you an invoice. I was like, Jacob, is it sunny where you are? He's like, is it sunny where you are? He's like, is it sunny where you are? He's like, yeah. I was like, well, it's February yeah. I was like, well, it's February yeah. I was like, well, it's February here and it's not. I'm sad. He's like, here and it's not. I'm sad. He's like, here and it's not. I'm sad. He's like, you should move down here, too. I was you should move down here, too. I was you should move down here, too. I was like, well, I can't. This is the like, well, I can't. This is the like, well, I can't. This is the farthest south as my country will go. farthest south as my country will go. farthest south as my country will go. Uh so but that's an example as well of Uh so but that's an example as well of Uh so but that's an example as well of views per day. Like he's like, I'm going views per day. Like he's like, I'm going views per day. Like he's like, I'm going to look at my entire month of content to look at my entire month of content to look at my entire month of content and if I publish twice as many YouTube and if I publish twice as many YouTube and if I publish twice as many YouTube videos, yes, my views per video might videos, yes, my views per video might videos, yes, my views per video might decrease because I'm going to have to decrease because I'm going to have to decrease because I'm going to have to like create more content around niches like create more content around niches like create more content around niches that just are going to have or or or that just are going to have or or or that just are going to have or or or it's very hyper specific topics that are it's very hyper specific topics that are it's very hyper specific topics that are going to have fewer potential people in going to have fewer potential people in going to have fewer potential people in the audience. the audience. the audience. >> less precious about the content itself? >> less precious about the content itself? >> less precious about the content itself? Well, yeah, right. And that you so you Well, yeah, right. And that you so you Well, yeah, right. And that you so you decouple yourself from what you're decouple yourself from what you're decouple yourself from what you're posting and looking at and that allows posting and looking at and that allows posting and looking at and that allows you to produce more and for a church you to produce more and for a church you to produce more and for a church like we know that there are three like we know that there are three like we know that there are three different audiences on social. There's different audiences on social. There's different audiences on social. There's your congregation, there's introducing your congregation, there's introducing your congregation, there's introducing your church to new people where they your church to new people where they your church to new people where they stumble across your video and then stumble across your video and then stumble across your video and then there's the opposite of that where there's the opposite of that where there's the opposite of that where people look for you, look for a church people look for you, look for a church people look for you, look for a church and find you and then they go to your and find you and then they go to your and find you and then they go to your social accounts and maybe they click on social accounts and maybe they click on social accounts and maybe they click on a post that has 47 views.

a post that has 47 views. a post that has 47 views. But it was from yesterday and it shows But it was from yesterday and it shows But it was from yesterday and it shows to them, okay, this church is alive, to them, okay, this church is alive, to them, okay, this church is alive, they're active and this is, they're active and this is, they're active and this is, you know, a genuine representation of you know, a genuine representation of you know, a genuine representation of their church and they visit in person their church and they visit in person their church and they visit in person and they get connected. Like we have we and they get connected. Like we have we and they get connected. Like we have we hear so many stories of that and it hear so many stories of that and it hear so many stories of that and it probably didn't come from the post that probably didn't come from the post that probably didn't come from the post that was like a ton of polarity was like a ton of polarity was like a ton of polarity >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and reached 200,000. and reached 200,000. and reached 200,000. Those posts have merit, obviously. Those posts have merit, obviously. Those posts have merit, obviously. Nobody's questioning that. It's the Nobody's questioning that. It's the Nobody's questioning that. It's the posts that people like me have been like posts that people like me have been like posts that people like me have been like embarrassed by and the whole point of embarrassed by and the whole point of embarrassed by and the whole point of this thesis is that whether you are this thesis is that whether you are this thesis is that whether you are ChurchFront or a church or ChurchFront or a church or ChurchFront or a church or ProChurchTools, ProChurchTools, ProChurchTools, those posts have value. In fact, the those posts have value. In fact, the those posts have value. In fact, the more of them that you can publish, the more of them that you can publish, the more of them that you can publish, the more you can move the needle forward on more you can move the needle forward on more you can move the needle forward on what truly matters in your church. what truly matters in your church. what truly matters in your church. >> That's right. If you want to get an >> That's right. If you want to get an >> That's right. If you want to get an audit, uh have me look at your accounts, audit, uh have me look at your accounts, audit, uh have me look at your accounts, would love to do that. auditmychurch.com would love to do that. auditmychurch.com would love to do that. auditmychurch.com is where you can go and request that. We is where you can go and request that. We is where you can go and request that. We will need a few analytic screenshots will need a few analytic screenshots will need a few analytic screenshots from you. I'd recommend completing that from you. I'd recommend completing that from you. I'd recommend completing that form on desktop. It's just easier to form on desktop. It's just easier to form on desktop. It's just easier to share the information that we need. Give share the information that we need. Give share the information that we need. Give it a try on on mobile, but sometimes it a try on on mobile, but sometimes it a try on on mobile, but sometimes churches will do it and I'll say, "Hey, churches will do it and I'll say, "Hey, churches will do it and I'll say, "Hey, like you missed this part. Go back and like you missed this part. Go back and like you missed this part. Go back and resubmit again." And it's just easier to resubmit again." And it's just easier to resubmit again." And it's just easier to get it right the first time.

get it right the first time. get it right the first time. audittmychurch.com. audittmychurch.com. audittmychurch.com. Thank you for your time, attention, and Thank you for your time, attention, and Thank you for your time, attention, and trust. We will talk to you next week. trust. We will talk to you next week. trust. We will talk to you next week. Actually, we're going to talk to you Actually, we're going to talk to you Actually, we're going to talk to you like eight times between now and then. like eight times between now and then. like eight times between now and then. We're going to spam the marketing. Talk We're going to spam the marketing. Talk We're going to spam the marketing. Talk to you next week. Couldn't get away from to you next week. Couldn't get away from to you next week. Couldn't get away from saying, "Let's dive in." Or your saying, "Let's dive in." Or your saying, "Let's dive in." Or your respective respective respective It wasn't even in the script that I'm It wasn't even in the script that I'm It wasn't even in the script that I'm putting it in. putting it in. putting it in. I said downstream and byproduct at the I said downstream and byproduct at the I said downstream and byproduct at the same time. It's like, "That's redundant, same time. It's like, "That's redundant, same time. It's like, "That's redundant, man. It's either downstream or man. It's either downstream or man. It's either downstream or byproduct. It can't be both." You know, byproduct. It can't be both." You know, byproduct. It can't be both." You know, it is a byproduct. Why? Because it's it is a byproduct. Why? Because it's it is a byproduct. Why? Because it's downstream.