10 Habits of Healthy Churches (copy these)

Virtually every church would claim they Virtually every church would claim they preach the Bible and are committed to preach the Bible and are committed to preach the Bible and are committed to Jesus and care about disciplehip. Yet, Jesus and care about disciplehip. Yet, Jesus and care about disciplehip. Yet, despite the same objectives, you despite the same objectives, you despite the same objectives, you probably know what it's like to be in a probably know what it's like to be in a probably know what it's like to be in a healthy church and a not so healthy healthy church and a not so healthy healthy church and a not so healthy church. So, what separates the two? church. So, what separates the two? church. So, what separates the two? That's what we're here to discuss today. That's what we're here to discuss today. That's what we're here to discuss today. The 10 habits of healthy churches. Let's The 10 habits of healthy churches. Let's The 10 habits of healthy churches. Let's dive in. dive in. dive in. Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sher, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sher, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sher, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. We call him Father always by my co-host. We call him Father always by my co-host. We call him Father Floral. It's Alexander Mills. Hello. Floral. It's Alexander Mills. Hello. Floral. It's Alexander Mills. Hello. Hello. Let's kick this off by Hello. Let's kick this off by Hello. Let's kick this off by saying we are not going to cover the saying we are not going to cover the saying we are not going to cover the things that you are going to comment things that you are going to comment things that you are going to comment about. about. about. So when you comment, put your fingers So when you comment, put your fingers So when you comment, put your fingers away right now. We're not talking about away right now. We're not talking about away right now. We're not talking about the regular listeners. You know the the regular listeners. You know the the regular listeners. You know the vibe. But when people stumble upon this vibe. But when people stumble upon this vibe. But when people stumble upon this video and comment, well, maybe we should video and comment, well, maybe we should video and comment, well, maybe we should preach the gospel. Yeah, I understand preach the gospel. Yeah, I understand preach the gospel. Yeah, I understand that there are some synonymous items, that there are some synonymous items, that there are some synonymous items, but as we said in the intro, virtually but as we said in the intro, virtually but as we said in the intro, virtually every one of these churches, every every one of these churches, every every one of these churches, every church we've been a part of that will church we've been a part of that will church we've been a part of that will consider itself a Bible believing church consider itself a Bible believing church consider itself a Bible believing church is going to hit the same marks. And yet, is going to hit the same marks. And yet, is going to hit the same marks. And yet, despite that, we see variance, health, despite that, we see variance, health, despite that, we see variance, health, unhealth. What are the healthy habits unhealth. What are the healthy habits unhealth. What are the healthy habits that I have seen as I have visited so that I have seen as I have visited so that I have seen as I have visited so many different churches and spent time many different churches and spent time many different churches and spent time with their leadership around the world with their leadership around the world with their leadership around the world started to like identify different started to like identify different started to like identify different things that seem to be commonalities.

things that seem to be commonalities. things that seem to be commonalities. We've got 10 of them. Pastor, resident We've got 10 of them. Pastor, resident We've got 10 of them. Pastor, resident pastor, thoughts before we dive into pastor, thoughts before we dive into pastor, thoughts before we dive into number one. I mean, this we we talk a number one. I mean, this we we talk a number one. I mean, this we we talk a lot about mission and vision at at at lot about mission and vision at at at lot about mission and vision at at at the churches that we work at, the the churches that we work at, the the churches that we work at, the churches we serve at, and of course, is churches we serve at, and of course, is churches we serve at, and of course, is to see more people take more next steps to see more people take more next steps to see more people take more next steps in their journey with Jesus. If you were in their journey with Jesus. If you were in their journey with Jesus. If you were to distill it all down, that's what to distill it all down, that's what to distill it all down, that's what we're all trying to do. But in our we're all trying to do. But in our we're all trying to do. But in our efforts to accomplish that goal, that efforts to accomplish that goal, that efforts to accomplish that goal, that mission, that vision there, we we ought mission, that vision there, we we ought mission, that vision there, we we ought to also be aspiring to be healthy people to also be aspiring to be healthy people to also be aspiring to be healthy people that make up a healthy church. So, we've that make up a healthy church. So, we've that make up a healthy church. So, we've got 10 characteristics of, you know, got 10 characteristics of, you know, got 10 characteristics of, you know, healthy habits of healthy churches. And healthy habits of healthy churches. And healthy habits of healthy churches. And the first one addresses the commenters the first one addresses the commenters the first one addresses the commenters right away. The first one, holy right away. The first one, holy right away. The first one, holy character. Yeah. And I had to put this character. Yeah. And I had to put this character. Yeah. And I had to put this in for those people, right? You can't in for those people, right? You can't in for those people, right? You can't get mad at me. This is important because get mad at me. This is important because get mad at me. This is important because as Alex just said, if we're all trying as Alex just said, if we're all trying as Alex just said, if we're all trying to if we're all trying like, you know, to if we're all trying like, you know, to if we're all trying like, you know, to aspire to the same objectives as to aspire to the same objectives as to aspire to the same objectives as people that serve and work in church, people that serve and work in church, people that serve and work in church, the thing that separates a healthy the thing that separates a healthy the thing that separates a healthy church from an unhealthy church, it church from an unhealthy church, it church from an unhealthy church, it often comes down to interpersonal often comes down to interpersonal often comes down to interpersonal relationships. Is the leadership relationships. Is the leadership relationships. Is the leadership trustworthy? Are they reliable? Can you trustworthy? Are they reliable? Can you trustworthy? Are they reliable? Can you trust that they have at their heart of trust that they have at their heart of trust that they have at their heart of hearts holy character? Because what we hearts holy character? Because what we hearts holy character? Because what we know is true is that all types of power know is true is that all types of power know is true is that all types of power can corrupt. You know, the Bible talks can corrupt. You know, the Bible talks can corrupt. You know, the Bible talks about the human heart being deceitful about the human heart being deceitful about the human heart being deceitful above all things. And the more power we above all things. And the more power we above all things. And the more power we are given, the more that people rely on are given, the more that people rely on are given, the more that people rely on us and count on us. And thus we are us and count on us. And thus we are us and count on us. And thus we are elevated and platformed literally and elevated and platformed literally and elevated and platformed literally and metaphorically, the greater the metaphorically, the greater the metaphorically, the greater the likelihood becomes that we can subtly, likelihood becomes that we can subtly, likelihood becomes that we can subtly, maybe not so subtly, abuse that power.

maybe not so subtly, abuse that power. maybe not so subtly, abuse that power. And and and abuse that power sounds like And and and abuse that power sounds like And and and abuse that power sounds like something like dramatic, but it can be something like dramatic, but it can be something like dramatic, but it can be it can just be little things. Totally. it can just be little things. Totally. it can just be little things. Totally. And what I have found in leadership and And what I have found in leadership and And what I have found in leadership and I have failed these tests. I have passed I have failed these tests. I have passed I have failed these tests. I have passed these tests. But what I've always found these tests. But what I've always found these tests. But what I've always found the temptation exists when you have the temptation exists when you have the temptation exists when you have power to use it for your own good. power to use it for your own good. power to use it for your own good. Sometimes that good you can explain away Sometimes that good you can explain away Sometimes that good you can explain away as oh this is for the collective good. as oh this is for the collective good. as oh this is for the collective good. Sometimes you're like ah this might not Sometimes you're like ah this might not Sometimes you're like ah this might not be for the collective good. This might be for the collective good. This might be for the collective good. This might just be for me. And at the end of the just be for me. And at the end of the just be for me. And at the end of the day we want to believe about our day we want to believe about our day we want to believe about our leadership that they have holy leadership that they have holy leadership that they have holy character. That doesn't mean that they character. That doesn't mean that they character. That doesn't mean that they won't make mistakes. It doesn't mean won't make mistakes. It doesn't mean won't make mistakes. It doesn't mean that they won't be tempted, but they'd that they won't be tempted, but they'd that they won't be tempted, but they'd be the type of people to acknowledge be the type of people to acknowledge be the type of people to acknowledge those mistakes, to make amends, and to those mistakes, to make amends, and to those mistakes, to make amends, and to be different the next time it comes be different the next time it comes be different the next time it comes along. And for the most part, let's say, along. And for the most part, let's say, along. And for the most part, let's say, avoid and resist the temptation. And avoid and resist the temptation. And avoid and resist the temptation. And we've got 10, you know, habits of we've got 10, you know, habits of we've got 10, you know, habits of healthy churches that we're going to get healthy churches that we're going to get healthy churches that we're going to get to in today's show. So, we're not going to in today's show. So, we're not going to in today's show. So, we're not going to spend too much time talking about how to spend too much time talking about how to spend too much time talking about how to have holy character in church. But to have holy character in church. But to have holy character in church. But what I can tell you is the church I what I can tell you is the church I what I can tell you is the church I pastor is a small little rural pastor is a small little rural pastor is a small little rural congregation. And we for whatever reason congregation. And we for whatever reason congregation. And we for whatever reason we have folks kind of come and find we have folks kind of come and find we have folks kind of come and find refuge at our church coming from refuge at our church coming from refuge at our church coming from different church contexts. What he's different church contexts. What he's different church contexts. What he's saying is they come from my church saying is they come from my church saying is they come from my church around the corner. They leave my church around the corner. They leave my church around the corner. They leave my church because they're like, "I'm tired of because they're like, "I'm tired of because they're like, "I'm tired of this. I can't find refuge here." No, I I this. I can't find refuge here." No, I I this. I can't find refuge here." No, I I understand. That's not what I'm saying.

understand. That's not what I'm saying. understand. That's not what I'm saying. Um but what I am saying is I can tell Um but what I am saying is I can tell Um but what I am saying is I can tell you that a lot of the folks who do come you that a lot of the folks who do come you that a lot of the folks who do come to our church wounded looking for um to our church wounded looking for um to our church wounded looking for um yeah refuge or or shelter. This is the yeah refuge or or shelter. This is the yeah refuge or or shelter. This is the thing that they are recoiling from which thing that they are recoiling from which thing that they are recoiling from which is I belong to this church and in in in is I belong to this church and in in in is I belong to this church and in in in various ways there was this lack of holy various ways there was this lack of holy various ways there was this lack of holy character and it was unhealthy and I'm character and it was unhealthy and I'm character and it was unhealthy and I'm just looking I I I want to believe in just looking I I I want to believe in just looking I I I want to believe in the church. I want to belong to the the church. I want to belong to the the church. I want to belong to the church and so I'm here. Um, but this is church and so I'm here. Um, but this is church and so I'm here. Um, but this is the thing that stands out amongst the the thing that stands out amongst the the thing that stands out amongst the others of, hey, yeah, this church was others of, hey, yeah, this church was others of, hey, yeah, this church was unhealthy. Oh, why? What was your unhealthy. Oh, why? What was your unhealthy. Oh, why? What was your experience? It was just this lack of experience? It was just this lack of experience? It was just this lack of holy character. So, this, you know, I I holy character. So, this, you know, I I holy character. So, this, you know, I I I the rest of the list maybe isn't I the rest of the list maybe isn't I the rest of the list maybe isn't organized in order of importance, but organized in order of importance, but organized in order of importance, but surely this first one, this is the surely this first one, this is the surely this first one, this is the bedrock of it all. Love it. Let's move bedrock of it all. Love it. Let's move bedrock of it all. Love it. Let's move to number two. Number two, hard work. to number two. Number two, hard work. to number two. Number two, hard work. Just good oldfashioned hard work. The Just good oldfashioned hard work. The Just good oldfashioned hard work. The work that we do really matters and it's work that we do really matters and it's work that we do really matters and it's not always glamorous and Sunday is not always glamorous and Sunday is not always glamorous and Sunday is coming every single week. Commitment to coming every single week. Commitment to coming every single week. Commitment to hard work and showing up and being hard work and showing up and being hard work and showing up and being faithful is one of the habits that I see faithful is one of the habits that I see faithful is one of the habits that I see in the healthiest leaders and the in the healthiest leaders and the in the healthiest leaders and the healthiest churches. And I think that healthiest churches. And I think that healthiest churches. And I think that the rhythm for this is not intensity, the rhythm for this is not intensity, the rhythm for this is not intensity, it's frequency. Yes, it's being the it's frequency. Yes, it's being the it's frequency. Yes, it's being the church and being the leader that just church and being the leader that just church and being the leader that just shows up. We talk about social no weeks shows up. We talk about social no weeks shows up. We talk about social no weeks off. that type of imperative being off. that type of imperative being off. that type of imperative being brought to the work of shephering and brought to the work of shephering and brought to the work of shephering and the work of pastoral care and the work the work of pastoral care and the work the work of pastoral care and the work of organizing church programming and the of organizing church programming and the of organizing church programming and the importance of that. It doesn't need to importance of that. It doesn't need to importance of that. It doesn't need to mean that you're like overexerting in mean that you're like overexerting in mean that you're like overexerting in hours per day, but you know, I I don't hours per day, but you know, I I don't hours per day, but you know, I I don't know, maybe this is unfair, but I

know, maybe this is unfair, but I know, maybe this is unfair, but I remember like remember like remember like interning at church when I was in high interning at church when I was in high interning at church when I was in high school and thinking like, what does a school and thinking like, what does a school and thinking like, what does a pastor do all day? pastor do all day? pastor do all day? It's a lot of just sitting in your It's a lot of just sitting in your It's a lot of just sitting in your office and reading the Bible. Oh, office and reading the Bible. Oh, office and reading the Bible. Oh, studying the scriptures. So, yeah. So, studying the scriptures. So, yeah. So, studying the scriptures. So, yeah. So, so hard work being imperative. And then so hard work being imperative. And then so hard work being imperative. And then I'll just jump to number three right now I'll just jump to number three right now I'll just jump to number three right now because this to me is a triad and I I I because this to me is a triad and I I I because this to me is a triad and I I I I switched out the order and I I forgive I switched out the order and I I forgive I switched out the order and I I forgive me I don't know where I saw this but I me I don't know where I saw this but I me I don't know where I saw this but I saw this presented on the internet as a saw this presented on the internet as a saw this presented on the internet as a triad and maybe it was one creator that triad and maybe it was one creator that triad and maybe it was one creator that just came up with it. Maybe it's just came up with it. Maybe it's just came up with it. Maybe it's something that is actually very familiar something that is actually very familiar something that is actually very familiar to everyone as we've all heard this to everyone as we've all heard this to everyone as we've all heard this hundred times but the triad was hard hundred times but the triad was hard hundred times but the triad was hard work, tender hearts, holy character. And work, tender hearts, holy character. And work, tender hearts, holy character. And I thought of that as like, man, as my I thought of that as like, man, as my I thought of that as like, man, as my kids get older, we kind of started with kids get older, we kind of started with kids get older, we kind of started with like elementary values, like the one like elementary values, like the one like elementary values, like the one I've always said to my daughter is like, I've always said to my daughter is like, I've always said to my daughter is like, just keep trying and be a good friend. just keep trying and be a good friend. just keep trying and be a good friend. And she's 10 years old now. And so she's And she's 10 years old now. And so she's And she's 10 years old now. And so she's getting older. She was asking some getting older. She was asking some getting older. She was asking some questions about how she entered into the questions about how she entered into the questions about how she entered into the world. Okay. This week, so she's she's world. Okay. This week, so she's she's world. Okay. This week, so she's she's growing up. And so like I think she's growing up. And so like I think she's growing up. And so like I think she's getting close to having the maturity to getting close to having the maturity to getting close to having the maturity to handle like handle like handle like larger axioms that are deeper in their larger axioms that are deeper in their larger axioms that are deeper in their wisdom. And and I really liked this this wisdom. And and I really liked this this wisdom. And and I really liked this this triad because I was like, you know what, triad because I was like, you know what, triad because I was like, you know what, babe? If all I had to teach you was babe? If all I had to teach you was babe? If all I had to teach you was three things, it would be hard work, three things, it would be hard work, three things, it would be hard work, tender hearts, holy character, the hard tender hearts, holy character, the hard tender hearts, holy character, the hard work and the tender hearts. And the work and the tender hearts. And the work and the tender hearts. And the tender hearts is this third one. Those tender hearts is this third one. Those tender hearts is this third one. Those are purposefully kind of paradoxical in are purposefully kind of paradoxical in are purposefully kind of paradoxical in a sense. Like you think of hard work and a sense. Like you think of hard work and a sense. Like you think of hard work and you know Alex is having a deck installed

you know Alex is having a deck installed you know Alex is having a deck installed on his house right now and he was on his house right now and he was on his house right now and he was talking about the gentlemen that are talking about the gentlemen that are talking about the gentlemen that are working there. You know you think about working there. You know you think about working there. You know you think about the men that are working in the backyard the men that are working in the backyard the men that are working in the backyard and they got the calloused hands. Why? and they got the calloused hands. Why? and they got the calloused hands. Why? Because they're doing so much hard work Because they're doing so much hard work Because they're doing so much hard work that the literal skin on their hands has that the literal skin on their hands has that the literal skin on their hands has become hard and like it cannot be become hard and like it cannot be become hard and like it cannot be penetrated by something as simple as penetrated by something as simple as penetrated by something as simple as like gravel. Nor nor should it because like gravel. Nor nor should it because like gravel. Nor nor should it because there is a lot of like you know intense there is a lot of like you know intense there is a lot of like you know intense material being handled by these material being handled by these material being handled by these masculine men. masculine men. masculine men. tender hearts. Oh, well that's like tender hearts. Oh, well that's like tender hearts. Oh, well that's like Martha and Mary, you know, the people Martha and Mary, you know, the people Martha and Mary, you know, the people that are work. And and the idea is that that are work. And and the idea is that that are work. And and the idea is that if you can have both, that's when you if you can have both, that's when you if you can have both, that's when you are the better embodiment of what Jesus are the better embodiment of what Jesus are the better embodiment of what Jesus is. And then holy character is that is. And then holy character is that is. And then holy character is that anchor because the output would be hard anchor because the output would be hard anchor because the output would be hard work. The output would be tender hearts. work. The output would be tender hearts. work. The output would be tender hearts. What's the anchor that's driving all What's the anchor that's driving all What's the anchor that's driving all that? What's the true motivator? It's that? What's the true motivator? It's that? What's the true motivator? It's the holy character. You know, there's a the holy character. You know, there's a the holy character. You know, there's a a biblical principle that informs all of a biblical principle that informs all of a biblical principle that informs all of these for sure. Um, and there is a a a these for sure. Um, and there is a a a these for sure. Um, and there is a a a throughine of these three, which is the throughine of these three, which is the throughine of these three, which is the leadership of of Jesus himself, right?

leadership of of Jesus himself, right? leadership of of Jesus himself, right? And so we see all these things um And so we see all these things um And so we see all these things um revealed to us in in the leadership of revealed to us in in the leadership of revealed to us in in the leadership of the the teacher of all teachers, the the the teacher of all teachers, the the the teacher of all teachers, the rabbi of all rabbis who um gave his life rabbi of all rabbis who um gave his life rabbi of all rabbis who um gave his life in a sense and and modeled what it looks in a sense and and modeled what it looks in a sense and and modeled what it looks like to like to like to cultivate frankly like church community, cultivate frankly like church community, cultivate frankly like church community, a faith community while staying soft. a faith community while staying soft. a faith community while staying soft. And it's it it is the weekly often daily And it's it it is the weekly often daily And it's it it is the weekly often daily grind of church. It is a marathon. It is grind of church. It is a marathon. It is grind of church. It is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And that's why the work is not a sprint. And that's why the work is not a sprint. And that's why the work is hard. And for as long as you devote hard. And for as long as you devote hard. And for as long as you devote yourself to doing this work, it will be yourself to doing this work, it will be yourself to doing this work, it will be hard. And there is I I'm not sure I have hard. And there is I I'm not sure I have hard. And there is I I'm not sure I have the best language to put to it, but when the best language to put to it, but when the best language to put to it, but when you're doing hard work like that, there you're doing hard work like that, there you're doing hard work like that, there is a tendency to yourself become is a tendency to yourself become is a tendency to yourself become hardened. Um, but the it's it's the holy hardened. Um, but the it's it's the holy hardened. Um, but the it's it's the holy character that is rooted in the the character that is rooted in the the character that is rooted in the the image, the revelation of God revealed in image, the revelation of God revealed in image, the revelation of God revealed in Jesus that allows us to do hard things Jesus that allows us to do hard things Jesus that allows us to do hard things while continually being soft. And that's while continually being soft. And that's while continually being soft. And that's the type of people that we want to be in the type of people that we want to be in the type of people that we want to be in our faith communities so that our faith our faith communities so that our faith our faith communities so that our faith communities are healthy and whole and communities are healthy and whole and communities are healthy and whole and holy even. Yeah. that holy character is holy even. Yeah. that holy character is holy even. Yeah. that holy character is like it's like a protective compound in like it's like a protective compound in like it's like a protective compound in a way that is you're trying to do two a way that is you're trying to do two a way that is you're trying to do two things that are kind of meant to be at things that are kind of meant to be at things that are kind of meant to be at odds with each other. How do you do it?

odds with each other. How do you do it? odds with each other. How do you do it? Well, that's what the way of Jesus is Well, that's what the way of Jesus is Well, that's what the way of Jesus is all about. Okay, let's move out of the all about. Okay, let's move out of the all about. Okay, let's move out of the triad. Number four, the language you use triad. Number four, the language you use triad. Number four, the language you use becomes the culture you build. What I becomes the culture you build. What I becomes the culture you build. What I love about a framework for an episode love about a framework for an episode love about a framework for an episode like this, 10 habits, is it allows us to like this, 10 habits, is it allows us to like this, 10 habits, is it allows us to basically evaluate ourselves and our basically evaluate ourselves and our basically evaluate ourselves and our ministries alongside each. One of the ministries alongside each. One of the ministries alongside each. One of the one of the things I picked up when I was one of the things I picked up when I was one of the things I picked up when I was younger as I was getting into the world younger as I was getting into the world younger as I was getting into the world of church leadership was how I was drawn of church leadership was how I was drawn of church leadership was how I was drawn to leaders that always chose their words to leaders that always chose their words to leaders that always chose their words carefully. It didn't mean that they were carefully. It didn't mean that they were carefully. It didn't mean that they were kind of like the prototypical like slow kind of like the prototypical like slow kind of like the prototypical like slow to speak type of person. Sometimes were to speak type of person. Sometimes were to speak type of person. Sometimes were people that like you know love to gab. people that like you know love to gab. people that like you know love to gab. Uh but you could tell that their words Uh but you could tell that their words Uh but you could tell that their words were methodical. They were meaningful were methodical. They were meaningful were methodical. They were meaningful and great measure was given to the words and great measure was given to the words and great measure was given to the words that they chose. And I think I don't that they chose. And I think I don't that they chose. And I think I don't know if I understood why that was at the know if I understood why that was at the know if I understood why that was at the beginning. Um, and you know, maybe I beginning. Um, and you know, maybe I beginning. Um, and you know, maybe I don't understand now because this is don't understand now because this is don't understand now because this is episode number 848 of this podcast that episode number 848 of this podcast that episode number 848 of this podcast that is just, you know, hey, you want 900 is just, you know, hey, you want 900 is just, you know, hey, you want 900 hours of gab? Well, you've come to the hours of gab? Well, you've come to the hours of gab? Well, you've come to the right place. What's the topic? Church right place. What's the topic? Church right place. What's the topic? Church media. 900 media. 900 media. 900 hours. The language you use becomes the hours. The language you use becomes the hours. The language you use becomes the culture you build. The wisdom here is culture you build. The wisdom here is culture you build. The wisdom here is understanding that culture is a understanding that culture is a understanding that culture is a byproduct of the tone and the words that byproduct of the tone and the words that byproduct of the tone and the words that you choose. Sometimes I'll publish a you choose. Sometimes I'll publish a you choose. Sometimes I'll publish a piece of content and I'll say, "Hey, piece of content and I'll say, "Hey, piece of content and I'll say, "Hey, here's something that a lot of churches here's something that a lot of churches here's something that a lot of churches say. Try saying this instead." And say. Try saying this instead." And say. Try saying this instead." And people will say like, "It's really not people will say like, "It's really not people will say like, "It's really not that deep, bro." And I and I understand that deep, bro." And I and I understand that deep, bro." And I and I understand on the surface like I perfectly get why on the surface like I perfectly get why on the surface like I perfectly get why they would respond that way. But my they would respond that way. But my they would respond that way. But my challenge to them is to understand that

challenge to them is to understand that challenge to them is to understand that all of these little choices, they add up all of these little choices, they add up all of these little choices, they add up over time to form culture. If you always over time to form culture. If you always over time to form culture. If you always speak in this type of tone, if you speak in this type of tone, if you speak in this type of tone, if you always use language that's laced with always use language that's laced with always use language that's laced with certain connotations that you probably certain connotations that you probably certain connotations that you probably wouldn't want associated with your wouldn't want associated with your wouldn't want associated with your church and would never claim, yet the church and would never claim, yet the church and would never claim, yet the language you use is associated with language you use is associated with language you use is associated with those things. That's not harmless. That those things. That's not harmless. That those things. That's not harmless. That is not without effect. Over time, it is not without effect. Over time, it is not without effect. Over time, it builds culture. Well, and again to the builds culture. Well, and again to the builds culture. Well, and again to the I'll I'll do my pastoral thing here I'll I'll do my pastoral thing here I'll I'll do my pastoral thing here because I I guess I just can't escape it because I I guess I just can't escape it because I I guess I just can't escape it even if I tried. But you've talked even even if I tried. But you've talked even even if I tried. But you've talked even more than 900 hours, pastor, to what I more than 900 hours, pastor, to what I more than 900 hours, pastor, to what I to what I just said like uh earlier to what I just said like uh earlier to what I just said like uh earlier about there being a scriptural basis for about there being a scriptural basis for about there being a scriptural basis for all of these things. Like that's that's all of these things. Like that's that's all of these things. Like that's that's what we're talking about here is is if what we're talking about here is is if what we're talking about here is is if you reverse engineer the language that you reverse engineer the language that you reverse engineer the language that comes out of your mouth. Well, the comes out of your mouth. Well, the comes out of your mouth. Well, the scripture tells us that it's it's from scripture tells us that it's it's from scripture tells us that it's it's from our heart that the words come out of our our heart that the words come out of our our heart that the words come out of our mouth. And so the things that are coming mouth. And so the things that are coming mouth. And so the things that are coming out that are shaping the culture around out that are shaping the culture around out that are shaping the culture around us are indicative of what's going on us are indicative of what's going on us are indicative of what's going on inside of us. an unhealthy person, an inside of us. an unhealthy person, an inside of us. an unhealthy person, an unhealthy leader is is going to use unhealthy leader is is going to use unhealthy leader is is going to use language to shape an unhealthy language to shape an unhealthy language to shape an unhealthy organization. Inversely, someone who is organization. Inversely, someone who is organization. Inversely, someone who is healthy and whole on the inside that healthy and whole on the inside that healthy and whole on the inside that will come out of them um whether they will come out of them um whether they will come out of them um whether they are intentional about it or not because are intentional about it or not because are intentional about it or not because it's what comes out is a reflection of it's what comes out is a reflection of it's what comes out is a reflection of what's on the inside and then therefore what's on the inside and then therefore what's on the inside and then therefore you hopefully you will have uh a culture you hopefully you will have uh a culture you hopefully you will have uh a culture and a community that's formed by this and a community that's formed by this and a community that's formed by this this inner glory that's coming out this inner glory that's coming out this inner glory that's coming out through the language we use. Okay. Talk through the language we use. Okay. Talk through the language we use. Okay. Talk to us about number five. Number five, to us about number five. Number five, to us about number five. Number five, we're moving on to active participants we're moving on to active participants we're moving on to active participants over passive spectators. So, this is the

over passive spectators. So, this is the over passive spectators. So, this is the trajectory of healthy churches. I think trajectory of healthy churches. I think trajectory of healthy churches. I think the caveat being sometimes there can be the caveat being sometimes there can be the caveat being sometimes there can be short-term success that is kind of short-term success that is kind of short-term success that is kind of underscored by unhealthy rhythms. Okay? underscored by unhealthy rhythms. Okay? underscored by unhealthy rhythms. Okay? because I have seen and been part of because I have seen and been part of because I have seen and been part of churches that have been very well churches that have been very well churches that have been very well attended attended attended and very and very and very passionate, but the way it was achieved passionate, but the way it was achieved passionate, but the way it was achieved was like through creating this spectacle was like through creating this spectacle was like through creating this spectacle that everyone wanted to kind of like that everyone wanted to kind of like that everyone wanted to kind of like come and see. Sure. Did that necessarily come and see. Sure. Did that necessarily come and see. Sure. Did that necessarily translate translate translate to people being more formed like Jesus? to people being more formed like Jesus? to people being more formed like Jesus? That's the part that I was a bit more That's the part that I was a bit more That's the part that I was a bit more skeptical of. And so this is a really skeptical of. And so this is a really skeptical of. And so this is a really easy axiom to apply to all of the easy axiom to apply to all of the easy axiom to apply to all of the specific programming and ministries that specific programming and ministries that specific programming and ministries that you have in your church. How is this you have in your church. How is this you have in your church. How is this creating active participants? creating active participants? creating active participants? Are we at risk of this contributing to Are we at risk of this contributing to Are we at risk of this contributing to people being more passive spectators?

people being more passive spectators? people being more passive spectators? And I think for a little while I thought And I think for a little while I thought And I think for a little while I thought that even Sunday morning had troubles that even Sunday morning had troubles that even Sunday morning had troubles with this. And certainly there are with this. And certainly there are with this. And certainly there are versions of Sunday morning. I'm not, you versions of Sunday morning. I'm not, you versions of Sunday morning. I'm not, you know, I'm not against all programming know, I'm not against all programming know, I'm not against all programming and the importance of like sitting in and the importance of like sitting in and the importance of like sitting in pews and hearing teaching and pews and hearing teaching and pews and hearing teaching and participating in corporate worship, but participating in corporate worship, but participating in corporate worship, but how can we move people beyond just how can we move people beyond just how can we move people beyond just coming to church, sitting down and coming to church, sitting down and coming to church, sitting down and departing again? How can we move them departing again? How can we move them departing again? How can we move them into service into action into being the into service into action into being the into service into action into being the hands and feet of Jesus and not just hands and feet of Jesus and not just hands and feet of Jesus and not just observing the programming that your observing the programming that your observing the programming that your church has so thoughtfully put on? Yeah. church has so thoughtfully put on? Yeah. church has so thoughtfully put on? Yeah. And I I think in the west we're really And I I think in the west we're really And I I think in the west we're really up against this here because I know I up against this here because I know I up against this here because I know I I'm confident a lot of the folks I'm confident a lot of the folks I'm confident a lot of the folks listening to this show feel the same way listening to this show feel the same way listening to this show feel the same way that a lot of the folks that I talk to that a lot of the folks that I talk to that a lot of the folks that I talk to both in my personal life and in my work both in my personal life and in my work both in my personal life and in my work here are feeling which is okay. Like here are feeling which is okay. Like here are feeling which is okay. Like this one doesn't surprise me braid. This this one doesn't surprise me braid. This this one doesn't surprise me braid. This one doesn't surprise me Alex. I know I one doesn't surprise me Alex. I know I one doesn't surprise me Alex. I know I look out at my church and I want them to look out at my church and I want them to look out at my church and I want them to be more active participants. I just be more active participants. I just be more active participants. I just don't know how to accomplish that don't know how to accomplish that don't know how to accomplish that because we live in a world that is um because we live in a world that is um because we live in a world that is um spectacular by nature. We want to sit spectacular by nature. We want to sit spectacular by nature. We want to sit down and be entertained. we want to um down and be entertained. we want to um down and be entertained. we want to um have someone do the work for us. And so have someone do the work for us. And so have someone do the work for us. And so in the west, I I do feel like we're in the west, I I do feel like we're in the west, I I do feel like we're really up against it in this respect. Um really up against it in this respect. Um really up against it in this respect. Um culturally, the the way that that we culturally, the the way that that we culturally, the the way that that we have um we have been practicing um our have um we have been practicing um our have um we have been practicing um our Sunday worship over the last 50 years Sunday worship over the last 50 years Sunday worship over the last 50 years has set us up for um being in a really has set us up for um being in a really has set us up for um being in a really tough spot right now with this one in tough spot right now with this one in tough spot right now with this one in particular from transitioning folks out particular from transitioning folks out particular from transitioning folks out of just spectating and and observing and of just spectating and and observing and of just spectating and and observing and receiving and feeling on Sunday morning receiving and feeling on Sunday morning receiving and feeling on Sunday morning to actually belonging and becoming the to actually belonging and becoming the to actually belonging and becoming the church. Um, this one's a a bit more of a

church. Um, this one's a a bit more of a church. Um, this one's a a bit more of a of a narrow road ahead of us, but I of a narrow road ahead of us, but I of a narrow road ahead of us, but I think it's essential. I think we're think it's essential. I think we're think it's essential. I think we're we're all kind of feeling this is we're all kind of feeling this is we're all kind of feeling this is essential for a marker of a real healthy essential for a marker of a real healthy essential for a marker of a real healthy church community. Let's also emphasize church community. Let's also emphasize church community. Let's also emphasize there's a difference between being there's a difference between being there's a difference between being committed to a habit and seeing the committed to a habit and seeing the committed to a habit and seeing the fruit from that. What we're talking fruit from that. What we're talking fruit from that. What we're talking about here is process. We're not talking about here is process. We're not talking about here is process. We're not talking about harvest. about harvest. about harvest. So, you know, you you can be committed So, you know, you you can be committed So, you know, you you can be committed to active participants and not passive to active participants and not passive to active participants and not passive spectators and then look at the spectators and then look at the spectators and then look at the landscape of your church and be like, I landscape of your church and be like, I landscape of your church and be like, I don't know if we're fulfilling this just don't know if we're fulfilling this just don't know if we're fulfilling this just yet. That's perfectly fine. The yet. That's perfectly fine. The yet. That's perfectly fine. The commitment to the habit is what's commitment to the habit is what's commitment to the habit is what's important. Commitment to hard work, important. Commitment to hard work, important. Commitment to hard work, commitment to holy character, commitment commitment to holy character, commitment commitment to holy character, commitment to, you know, using language that to, you know, using language that to, you know, using language that intentionally builds culture. The intentionally builds culture. The intentionally builds culture. The specifics of that, of course, are going specifics of that, of course, are going specifics of that, of course, are going to be unique to each individual church. to be unique to each individual church. to be unique to each individual church. the success and or like translation of the success and or like translation of the success and or like translation of these habits into material efforts. You these habits into material efforts. You these habits into material efforts. You know, sometimes that can be years. Yeah. know, sometimes that can be years. Yeah. know, sometimes that can be years. Yeah. Maybe for other churches it's months.

Maybe for other churches it's months. Maybe for other churches it's months. Like the outcome is not always in your Like the outcome is not always in your Like the outcome is not always in your control. The input is. That's right. And control. The input is. That's right. And control. The input is. That's right. And we're here to focus on input. Let's move we're here to focus on input. Let's move we're here to focus on input. Let's move to the sixth. Over the hump now. Number to the sixth. Over the hump now. Number to the sixth. Over the hump now. Number six. Calculated delusion. Hey, you knew six. Calculated delusion. Hey, you knew six. Calculated delusion. Hey, you knew it was going to be on here. I thought it was going to be on here. I thought it was going to be on here. I thought that was just for you, Brad. No, it's that was just for you, Brad. No, it's that was just for you, Brad. No, it's for all. And I think I I think the you for all. And I think I I think the you for all. And I think I I think the you know the pastor at my church I think is know the pastor at my church I think is know the pastor at my church I think is the really like best example of this. the really like best example of this. the really like best example of this. Pastor Justin, he will just never take Pastor Justin, he will just never take Pastor Justin, he will just never take like no for an answer in the sense that like no for an answer in the sense that like no for an answer in the sense that like well our budget's too small. He's like well our budget's too small. He's like well our budget's too small. He's like well watch me you know oh well you like well watch me you know oh well you like well watch me you know oh well you know what we've done a lot already as a know what we've done a lot already as a know what we've done a lot already as a church like you know I don't think that church like you know I don't think that church like you know I don't think that we could also do this and he's like okay we could also do this and he's like okay we could also do this and he's like okay I understand I'm going to give it a try I understand I'm going to give it a try I understand I'm going to give it a try anyway. Calculated delusion is basically anyway. Calculated delusion is basically anyway. Calculated delusion is basically just asking yourself the question like just asking yourself the question like just asking yourself the question like well why not us? Mhm. Like why can't we well why not us? Mhm. Like why can't we well why not us? Mhm. Like why can't we be the church that does this or or said be the church that does this or or said be the church that does this or or said differently like if not us then who, differently like if not us then who, differently like if not us then who, right? And that is how it would apply to right? And that is how it would apply to right? And that is how it would apply to like making a difference in your like making a difference in your like making a difference in your community. I think like if you were community. I think like if you were community. I think like if you were crazy enough to go into ministry, crazy enough to go into ministry, crazy enough to go into ministry, there's a certain part of there's a certain part of there's a certain part of you that I am certain of claimed this.

you that I am certain of claimed this. you that I am certain of claimed this. And maybe it's been lost over the years And maybe it's been lost over the years And maybe it's been lost over the years of being in ministry as you just kind of of being in ministry as you just kind of of being in ministry as you just kind of get beaten down by how challenging it get beaten down by how challenging it get beaten down by how challenging it is. But this idea of possibility is. But this idea of possibility is. But this idea of possibility and and and and yeah, like sometimes and and and and yeah, like sometimes and and and and yeah, like sometimes other people would say like that's other people would say like that's other people would say like that's delusional. And how many, you know, delusional. And how many, you know, delusional. And how many, you know, Bible characters were like it's the Bible characters were like it's the Bible characters were like it's the whole story. Thought of in the same way. whole story. Thought of in the same way. whole story. Thought of in the same way. How many? Okay. Okay. All of them. How many? Okay. Okay. All of them. How many? Okay. Okay. All of them. Pastor endorses all the characters. Um Pastor endorses all the characters. Um Pastor endorses all the characters. Um maybe then what we should be talking maybe then what we should be talking maybe then what we should be talking about is not simply believing this but about is not simply believing this but about is not simply believing this but protecting this mentality and protecting this mentality and protecting this mentality and understanding that like the grind of understanding that like the grind of understanding that like the grind of ministry year after year and this is why ministry year after year and this is why ministry year after year and this is why we see so many people like hey I was we see so many people like hey I was we see so many people like hey I was around for 3 years 5 years but not many around for 3 years 5 years but not many around for 3 years 5 years but not many people stay with it for so long like people stay with it for so long like people stay with it for so long like protecting this belief because it's key protecting this belief because it's key protecting this belief because it's key to being a healthy leader and building a to being a healthy leader and building a to being a healthy leader and building a healthy church understanding that healthy church understanding that healthy church understanding that virtually everything else that's virtually everything else that's virtually everything else that's happening is trying to like strip it happening is trying to like strip it happening is trying to like strip it away from you. Yeah. In my view that's away from you. Yeah. In my view that's away from you. Yeah. In my view that's exactly it. That's that's the the key to exactly it. That's that's the the key to exactly it. That's that's the the key to it all is protecting this spirit of of it all is protecting this spirit of of it all is protecting this spirit of of imagination. Uh it's it basically what imagination. Uh it's it basically what imagination. Uh it's it basically what it is is a prophetic imagination which it is is a prophetic imagination which it is is a prophetic imagination which is I can't quite see it but I believe is I can't quite see it but I believe is I can't quite see it but I believe that we can do it by the grace of God.

that we can do it by the grace of God. that we can do it by the grace of God. You know it's like that's literally the You know it's like that's literally the You know it's like that's literally the story is that this thing that we believe story is that this thing that we believe story is that this thing that we believe that a man was was dead and then rose that a man was was dead and then rose that a man was was dead and then rose again from the grave and then ascended again from the grave and then ascended again from the grave and then ascended on a cloud and then we're all going to on a cloud and then we're all going to on a cloud and then we're all going to do the same thing. That's delusional. do the same thing. That's delusional. do the same thing. That's delusional. That story is delusional. And so at the That story is delusional. And so at the That story is delusional. And so at the core, if we call ourselves Christians, core, if we call ourselves Christians, core, if we call ourselves Christians, the whole foundation of what we believe the whole foundation of what we believe the whole foundation of what we believe is delusional. Not even calculated. is delusional. Not even calculated. is delusional. Not even calculated. That's just plain like flatout That's just plain like flatout That's just plain like flatout delusional. And so to protect that delusional. And so to protect that delusional. And so to protect that spirit of of wonder, that prophetic spirit of of wonder, that prophetic spirit of of wonder, that prophetic imagination, that's what keeps our our imagination, that's what keeps our our imagination, that's what keeps our our vision open as a community. Because vision open as a community. Because vision open as a community. Because you're right, in the the daytoday, week you're right, in the the daytoday, week you're right, in the the daytoday, week to week, Sunday to Sunday grind, you to week, Sunday to Sunday grind, you to week, Sunday to Sunday grind, you just you kind of put your head down and just you kind of put your head down and just you kind of put your head down and just do the work. And it's like you you just do the work. And it's like you you just do the work. And it's like you you raise your head a few years later, it's raise your head a few years later, it's raise your head a few years later, it's like, well, what what did we do over the like, well, what what did we do over the like, well, what what did we do over the last few years? because we were just last few years? because we were just last few years? because we were just pulling off those Sunday services. We pulling off those Sunday services. We pulling off those Sunday services. We were just doing what we could. Um but to were just doing what we could. Um but to were just doing what we could. Um but to keep that that that dream, that vision keep that that that dream, that vision keep that that that dream, that vision alive, that's what keeps our communities alive, that's what keeps our communities alive, that's what keeps our communities moving forward, evolving with each other moving forward, evolving with each other moving forward, evolving with each other and evolving with God over time. Well, and evolving with God over time. Well, and evolving with God over time. Well, speaking of prophetic imagination, I was speaking of prophetic imagination, I was speaking of prophetic imagination, I was uh texting my co-host Alex a couple of uh texting my co-host Alex a couple of uh texting my co-host Alex a couple of days ago and I was saying, "Man, uh you days ago and I was saying, "Man, uh you days ago and I was saying, "Man, uh you won't believe this, but I had a dream. I won't believe this, but I had a dream. I won't believe this, but I had a dream. I was writing podcast episodes because I was writing podcast episodes because I was writing podcast episodes because I couldn't come up with any new ideas."

couldn't come up with any new ideas." couldn't come up with any new ideas." And he said, "We call that anxiety." And he said, "We call that anxiety." And he said, "We call that anxiety." And then I told him that later that day, And then I told him that later that day, And then I told him that later that day, I had written while I was on the massage I had written while I was on the massage I had written while I was on the massage table just just chilling in silence, I table just just chilling in silence, I table just just chilling in silence, I had written multiple podcast episodes. had written multiple podcast episodes. had written multiple podcast episodes. And I said, "So that was not anxiety. I And I said, "So that was not anxiety. I And I said, "So that was not anxiety. I don't claim that, pastor. Can you don't claim that, pastor. Can you don't claim that, pastor. Can you believe that he put that on me?" I said, believe that he put that on me?" I said, believe that he put that on me?" I said, "That was prophetic imagination." Yeah. "That was prophetic imagination." Yeah. "That was prophetic imagination." Yeah. I I I did. I'm trying to protect it. I I I did. I'm trying to protect it. I I I did. I'm trying to protect it. He's trying to take it. Yes. I tested He's trying to take it. Yes. I tested He's trying to take it. Yes. I tested your word. And I was wrong. Oh, you your word. And I was wrong. Oh, you your word. And I was wrong. Oh, you tested my See, that's the language tested my See, that's the language tested my See, that's the language pastors love to use. You get them into a pastors love to use. You get them into a pastors love to use. You get them into a corner, they're like, "Wow, I was just corner, they're like, "Wow, I was just corner, they're like, "Wow, I was just testing." Yeah. Speaking of language, testing." Yeah. Speaking of language, testing." Yeah. Speaking of language, number seven. All right. Devotion over number seven. All right. Devotion over number seven. All right. Devotion over dogma. Alliteration. You love to see it. dogma. Alliteration. You love to see it. dogma. Alliteration. You love to see it. We do love to see it. So, let's be We do love to see it. So, let's be We do love to see it. So, let's be clear. Dogma is almost always used as a clear. Dogma is almost always used as a clear. Dogma is almost always used as a term in relation to religiosity. And term in relation to religiosity. And term in relation to religiosity. And there are certain dogmas that I think there are certain dogmas that I think there are certain dogmas that I think are cool. Like, hey, Jesus rose from the are cool. Like, hey, Jesus rose from the are cool. Like, hey, Jesus rose from the dead. I'm not here to question it. Let's dead. I'm not here to question it. Let's dead. I'm not here to question it. Let's go with it. I need that one. Yeah. What go with it. I need that one. Yeah. What go with it. I need that one. Yeah. What un what invariably happens in unhealthy un what invariably happens in unhealthy un what invariably happens in unhealthy churches is that dogma does not say stay churches is that dogma does not say stay churches is that dogma does not say stay restricted to like the core tenants of restricted to like the core tenants of restricted to like the core tenants of the faith like the apostles creed or the faith like the apostles creed or the faith like the apostles creed or whatever it might be. It starts to whatever it might be. It starts to whatever it might be. It starts to extend to like this is how we do things extend to like this is how we do things extend to like this is how we do things in this church. It starts to extend in in this church. It starts to extend in in this church. It starts to extend in unhealthy ways to like we have to unhealthy ways to like we have to unhealthy ways to like we have to protect leadership. And it's not about protect leadership. And it's not about protect leadership. And it's not about devotion to the mission of the church.

devotion to the mission of the church. devotion to the mission of the church. It's now about devotion to this dogmatic It's now about devotion to this dogmatic It's now about devotion to this dogmatic structure that is unassalable and cannot structure that is unassalable and cannot structure that is unassalable and cannot be questioned. And this gets back to be questioned. And this gets back to be questioned. And this gets back to like short-term like short-term like short-term success. The reality is we all have a success. The reality is we all have a success. The reality is we all have a craving for certainty. And so in craving for certainty. And so in craving for certainty. And so in ministry, you can create a dogmatic ministry, you can create a dogmatic ministry, you can create a dogmatic structure where the boundaries and the structure where the boundaries and the structure where the boundaries and the expectations and the rules, frankly, are expectations and the rules, frankly, are expectations and the rules, frankly, are so black and white that it's actually so black and white that it's actually so black and white that it's actually attractive because it makes sense of the attractive because it makes sense of the attractive because it makes sense of the chaos of everyday life. And in the short chaos of everyday life. And in the short chaos of everyday life. And in the short term, that can be a great way to rally a term, that can be a great way to rally a term, that can be a great way to rally a bunch of people to your cause, bunch of people to your cause, bunch of people to your cause, especially if you can position it where especially if you can position it where especially if you can position it where there's actually an enemy that they're there's actually an enemy that they're there's actually an enemy that they're familiar with. In the long term, only familiar with. In the long term, only familiar with. In the long term, only rotten fruit will come from that. Or no, rotten fruit will come from that. Or no, rotten fruit will come from that. Or no, let's say not only, God is very let's say not only, God is very let's say not only, God is very powerful. many rotten fruits will come powerful. many rotten fruits will come powerful. many rotten fruits will come from that alongside let's hope God from that alongside let's hope God from that alongside let's hope God willing beautiful fruit and so the willing beautiful fruit and so the willing beautiful fruit and so the healthy churches resist that and you healthy churches resist that and you healthy churches resist that and you know what sometimes in that resistance know what sometimes in that resistance know what sometimes in that resistance you see other churches like in the short you see other churches like in the short you see other churches like in the short term seem to like outpace you totally term seem to like outpace you totally term seem to like outpace you totally and that can be really challenging and that can be really challenging and that can be really challenging because you're like I feel like we're because you're like I feel like we're because you're like I feel like we're committed to the right things and we're committed to the right things and we're committed to the right things and we're not like doing these things that I don't not like doing these things that I don't not like doing these things that I don't feel comfortable with but like if I'm feel comfortable with but like if I'm feel comfortable with but like if I'm honest I think if we did those things honest I think if we did those things honest I think if we did those things maybe more people would come maybe more maybe more people would come maybe more maybe more people would come maybe more people would give maybe more people people would give maybe more people people would give maybe more people would like respond and get involved would like respond and get involved would like respond and get involved because like we'd build this culture because like we'd build this culture because like we'd build this culture where it's kind of like, yeah, this is where it's kind of like, yeah, this is where it's kind of like, yeah, this is how it goes and if you're going to be a how it goes and if you're going to be a how it goes and if you're going to be a part of it, you're going to do this. How part of it, you're going to do this. How part of it, you're going to do this. How do you My question about this is if you do you My question about this is if you do you My question about this is if you belong to a church structure that is belong to a church structure that is belong to a church structure that is dogmatic about things that ought not to dogmatic about things that ought not to dogmatic about things that ought not to be be be dogmatic, how do you even begin to

dogmatic, how do you even begin to dogmatic, how do you even begin to identify that in the first place if identify that in the first place if identify that in the first place if you're caught up in it? As a leader or you're caught up in it? As a leader or you're caught up in it? As a leader or as an attender? I mean, both, maybe. as an attender? I mean, both, maybe. as an attender? I mean, both, maybe. I would say probably as a leader because I would say probably as a leader because I would say probably as a leader because you're the you're the you're the one shaping the culture. You're the one one shaping the culture. You're the one one shaping the culture. You're the one setting the boundaries or maybe you're setting the boundaries or maybe you're setting the boundaries or maybe you're the one who grew up in the culture and the one who grew up in the culture and the one who grew up in the culture and has always existed within the has always existed within the has always existed within the boundaries. Maybe if you grew up in that boundaries. Maybe if you grew up in that boundaries. Maybe if you grew up in that church or you just belong to that church church or you just belong to that church church or you just belong to that church for a long time, now you're leading in for a long time, now you're leading in for a long time, now you're leading in the church. How do you how do you get the church. How do you how do you get the church. How do you how do you get the perspective you need to see the the perspective you need to see the the perspective you need to see the things that you have installed as dogma things that you have installed as dogma things that you have installed as dogma that ought not to be? What happens is that ought not to be? What happens is that ought not to be? What happens is you start with a you start with a you start with a mission or you start with a very poorly mission or you start with a very poorly mission or you start with a very poorly articulated mission and then what articulated mission and then what articulated mission and then what happens is method takes the place of happens is method takes the place of happens is method takes the place of mission. And so getting back to the mission. And so getting back to the mission. And so getting back to the language you use becomes the culture you language you use becomes the culture you language you use becomes the culture you build typically when I'm having build typically when I'm having build typically when I'm having conversations with a church and they're conversations with a church and they're conversations with a church and they're open to hearing what I have to say. Like open to hearing what I have to say. Like open to hearing what I have to say. Like let's talk about the limitations of you let's talk about the limitations of you let's talk about the limitations of you serving in church. Maybe like you're not serving in church. Maybe like you're not serving in church. Maybe like you're not the person with the voice that anyone is the person with the voice that anyone is the person with the voice that anyone is going to listen to. So like I'm not here going to listen to. So like I'm not here going to listen to. So like I'm not here to say that just say this and it'll fix to say that just say this and it'll fix to say that just say this and it'll fix it.

it. it. The mission should be what we are The mission should be what we are The mission should be what we are aspiring to. Method should not take the aspiring to. Method should not take the aspiring to. Method should not take the place of mission. And so usually as we place of mission. And so usually as we place of mission. And so usually as we begin to uh evaluate or take inventory begin to uh evaluate or take inventory begin to uh evaluate or take inventory of what's happening, the goal is to of what's happening, the goal is to of what's happening, the goal is to identify is this mission or is this identify is this mission or is this identify is this mission or is this method. If method is in the place of method. If method is in the place of method. If method is in the place of mission, that's idolatry. Right? So for mission, that's idolatry. Right? So for mission, that's idolatry. Right? So for example, if the method is like a certain example, if the method is like a certain example, if the method is like a certain structure of service and like we will structure of service and like we will structure of service and like we will never like disembark from that, that never like disembark from that, that never like disembark from that, that could be a sign that like well that could be a sign that like well that could be a sign that like well that sounds like dogma, not just devotion to sounds like dogma, not just devotion to sounds like dogma, not just devotion to something, but like we cannot question something, but like we cannot question something, but like we cannot question this. When things cannot be questioned, this. When things cannot be questioned, this. When things cannot be questioned, that's a good sign that it's dogma and that's a good sign that it's dogma and that's a good sign that it's dogma and not devotion. Um because if not devotion. Um because if not devotion. Um because if something is put in a place where it something is put in a place where it something is put in a place where it can't be questioned to me that seems can't be questioned to me that seems can't be questioned to me that seems like it's weak and vulnerable and must like it's weak and vulnerable and must like it's weak and vulnerable and must be protected like you know no if you are be protected like you know no if you are be protected like you know no if you are devoted to something like ask as many devoted to something like ask as many devoted to something like ask as many questions as you want like I'm devoted questions as you want like I'm devoted questions as you want like I'm devoted to this and and perhaps you can poke to this and and perhaps you can poke to this and and perhaps you can poke holes in something but like I'm not holes in something but like I'm not holes in something but like I'm not afraid of that. I don't need to like afraid of that. I don't need to like afraid of that. I don't need to like protect this out of fear. Yeah. Uh and protect this out of fear. Yeah. Uh and protect this out of fear. Yeah. Uh and then the other thing is evaluating all then the other thing is evaluating all then the other thing is evaluating all decisions based on mission. Once we've decisions based on mission. Once we've decisions based on mission. Once we've like articulated this is what mission like articulated this is what mission like articulated this is what mission is, this is what method is and we're no is, this is what method is and we're no is, this is what method is and we're no longer making decisions based on method.

longer making decisions based on method. longer making decisions based on method. The second step would say okay in light The second step would say okay in light The second step would say okay in light of what we understand the mission to be. of what we understand the mission to be. of what we understand the mission to be. Is this Is this Is this uh ministry? Is this language? Is this uh ministry? Is this language? Is this uh ministry? Is this language? Is this tone? Is this how we you know behave? Is tone? Is this how we you know behave? Is tone? Is this how we you know behave? Is this these behavioral trends accountable this these behavioral trends accountable this these behavioral trends accountable to this or not? The reason you have to to this or not? The reason you have to to this or not? The reason you have to figure out if it's mission or method figure out if it's mission or method figure out if it's mission or method from the beginning is if you start with from the beginning is if you start with from the beginning is if you start with that second step, you be like, well, are that second step, you be like, well, are that second step, you be like, well, are these behavioral patterns like these behavioral patterns like these behavioral patterns like accountable to the mission? Like, yes, accountable to the mission? Like, yes, accountable to the mission? Like, yes, because our mission is this. Well, because our mission is this. Well, because our mission is this. Well, that's method, that's not mission. And that's method, that's not mission. And that's method, that's not mission. And and I know I'm just like putting a lot and I know I'm just like putting a lot and I know I'm just like putting a lot of words out there. This stuff like of words out there. This stuff like of words out there. This stuff like isn't especially easy. And we'll get to isn't especially easy. And we'll get to isn't especially easy. And we'll get to this in one of the later healthy habits, this in one of the later healthy habits, this in one of the later healthy habits, but when you drift from mission, that's but when you drift from mission, that's but when you drift from mission, that's when things become problematic. It's when things become problematic. It's when things become problematic. It's that slow drift that happens over time that slow drift that happens over time that slow drift that happens over time where you become so familiar with what where you become so familiar with what where you become so familiar with what you do as a church that you've lost you do as a church that you've lost you do as a church that you've lost focus on like the ultimate outcome and focus on like the ultimate outcome and focus on like the ultimate outcome and the ultimate aspiration and objective the ultimate aspiration and objective the ultimate aspiration and objective and it all becomes around like method and it all becomes around like method and it all becomes around like method because it's it's method is comfortable. because it's it's method is comfortable. because it's it's method is comfortable. Totally. especially if you're a church Totally. especially if you're a church Totally. especially if you're a church of like, you know, let's say not a mega of like, you know, let's say not a mega of like, you know, let's say not a mega church um that usually has to have a lot church um that usually has to have a lot church um that usually has to have a lot of systems in place or an extremely of systems in place or an extremely of systems in place or an extremely extremely charismatic leader that you extremely charismatic leader that you extremely charismatic leader that you know can also get yourself into trouble know can also get yourself into trouble know can also get yourself into trouble in these same ways.

in these same ways. in these same ways. Um you're 100 people as a church. You Um you're 100 people as a church. You Um you're 100 people as a church. You like things a certain way. You've now like things a certain way. You've now like things a certain way. You've now created this rigid structure that keeps created this rigid structure that keeps created this rigid structure that keeps you comfortable, but that's not the you comfortable, but that's not the you comfortable, but that's not the purpose of the church. That's when purpose of the church. That's when purpose of the church. That's when method takes the place of Yeah. Well, method takes the place of Yeah. Well, method takes the place of Yeah. Well, let's get into it then with the next let's get into it then with the next let's get into it then with the next two. We are in the home stretch here. two. We are in the home stretch here. two. We are in the home stretch here. Let's go for number eight. Vocal about Let's go for number eight. Vocal about Let's go for number eight. Vocal about values. Okay. So, sometimes we've talked values. Okay. So, sometimes we've talked values. Okay. So, sometimes we've talked about mission as being this thing about mission as being this thing about mission as being this thing that is not that is not that is not especially spreadable as an idea. It's especially spreadable as an idea. It's especially spreadable as an idea. It's something you talk about as leadership. something you talk about as leadership. something you talk about as leadership. If you're the senior leader, you know it If you're the senior leader, you know it If you're the senior leader, you know it off by heart, but it's not easy to share off by heart, but it's not easy to share off by heart, but it's not easy to share from stage. Sure. Because, you know, from stage. Sure. Because, you know, from stage. Sure. Because, you know, it's virtually the same for every single it's virtually the same for every single it's virtually the same for every single church. And you might have a pathy way church. And you might have a pathy way church. And you might have a pathy way of saying it. And then there are values. of saying it. And then there are values. of saying it. And then there are values. Values are the ways that your church Values are the ways that your church Values are the ways that your church uniquely lives out the mission. Yeah. uniquely lives out the mission. Yeah. uniquely lives out the mission. Yeah. Churches that build healthy Churches that build healthy Churches that build healthy culture never shut up about these culture never shut up about these culture never shut up about these values. True. They are vocal about these values. True. They are vocal about these values. True. They are vocal about these values from stage. They are vocal about values from stage. They are vocal about values from stage. They are vocal about them within leadership. They are vocal them within leadership. They are vocal them within leadership. They are vocal about them with volunteers and in every about them with volunteers and in every about them with volunteers and in every single ministry team because what they single ministry team because what they single ministry team because what they do is they hold everyone accountable to do is they hold everyone accountable to do is they hold everyone accountable to the ideas that the church claims it's the ideas that the church claims it's the ideas that the church claims it's committed to. Yeah.

committed to. Yeah. committed to. Yeah. That is so powerful. It is such a That is so powerful. It is such a That is so powerful. It is such a powerful habit. It's like saying to your powerful habit. It's like saying to your powerful habit. It's like saying to your husband, to your wife, like, I am husband, to your wife, like, I am husband, to your wife, like, I am committed to like dying to self to love committed to like dying to self to love committed to like dying to self to love you. If you keep emphasizing that over you. If you keep emphasizing that over you. If you keep emphasizing that over and over again as a value, and you say and over again as a value, and you say and over again as a value, and you say it out loud, every single behavior that it out loud, every single behavior that it out loud, every single behavior that does not align with that value comes does not align with that value comes does not align with that value comes into question. If you're silent about into question. If you're silent about into question. If you're silent about these values in the same way that we can these values in the same way that we can these values in the same way that we can get obsessed with mission with method get obsessed with mission with method get obsessed with mission with method instead of mission, you can get kind of instead of mission, you can get kind of instead of mission, you can get kind of stuck in these like behavioral stuck in these like behavioral stuck in these like behavioral conversations or like these programming conversations or like these programming conversations or like these programming conversations. And now it's your conversations. And now it's your conversations. And now it's your preference versus my preference. It's preference versus my preference. It's preference versus my preference. It's what I like versus what you like. And in what I like versus what you like. And in what I like versus what you like. And in no ways are we like coming together to no ways are we like coming together to no ways are we like coming together to make sure that we're accountable to make sure that we're accountable to make sure that we're accountable to these values. The key is being vocal these values. The key is being vocal these values. The key is being vocal about values. You can never overstate about values. You can never overstate about values. You can never overstate them too much. by the time that you are them too much. by the time that you are them too much. by the time that you are so sick of them uh is probably the time so sick of them uh is probably the time so sick of them uh is probably the time that like the people that attend church that like the people that attend church that like the people that attend church like every other week are like, "Oh like every other week are like, "Oh like every other week are like, "Oh yeah, I think I've heard that before." yeah, I think I've heard that before." yeah, I think I've heard that before." Yeah. I love when I get Yeah. I love when I get Yeah. I love when I get to perceive um church communities where to perceive um church communities where to perceive um church communities where it's not just the senior leadership or it's not just the senior leadership or it's not just the senior leadership or or the the worship leader or the the or the the worship leader or the the or the the worship leader or the the person doing the announcements who knows person doing the announcements who knows person doing the announcements who knows the values. But when just the the the values. But when just the the the values. But when just the the attendee, the lay person, the the the attendee, the lay person, the the the attendee, the lay person, the the the people who just belong to the church and people who just belong to the church and people who just belong to the church and make up the church, when they catch make up the church, when they catch make up the church, when they catch these values and they start using them these values and they start using them these values and they start using them in their own language, you see it in their own language, you see it in their own language, you see it sometimes on social, you'll see it, you sometimes on social, you'll see it, you sometimes on social, you'll see it, you just you know it when you bump into just you know it when you bump into just you know it when you bump into these people, it's like, oh, you're these people, it's like, oh, you're these people, it's like, oh, you're being like very intentionally formed in being like very intentionally formed in being like very intentionally formed in your faith community and it is your faith community and it is your faith community and it is determining how you make determining how you make determining how you make decisions on the 167 hours beyond your

decisions on the 167 hours beyond your decisions on the 167 hours beyond your Sunday service. And I can see that all Sunday service. And I can see that all Sunday service. And I can see that all over you because of how well over you because of how well over you because of how well internalized your values are in your internalized your values are in your internalized your values are in your church community. It's pretty cool church community. It's pretty cool church community. It's pretty cool stuff. And this is the healthy way of stuff. And this is the healthy way of stuff. And this is the healthy way of building culture distinct from the building culture distinct from the building culture distinct from the dogmatic way. Mhm. Because the reality dogmatic way. Mhm. Because the reality dogmatic way. Mhm. Because the reality is even a church that's average size, 85 is even a church that's average size, 85 is even a church that's average size, 85 people, let's say. That's a lot of people, let's say. That's a lot of people, let's say. That's a lot of people. You as a senior leader cannot people. You as a senior leader cannot people. You as a senior leader cannot like enforce a certain way of behavior like enforce a certain way of behavior like enforce a certain way of behavior amongst all those people. All you can do amongst all those people. All you can do amongst all those people. All you can do is cast vision. And you do that by being is cast vision. And you do that by being is cast vision. And you do that by being vocal about values. And ideally you as vocal about values. And ideally you as vocal about values. And ideally you as the senior leader can affect you know the senior leader can affect you know the senior leader can affect you know six to 12 people that are like six to 12 people that are like six to 12 people that are like involunteer or in leadership in your involunteer or in leadership in your involunteer or in leadership in your church. And then ideally they can affect church. And then ideally they can affect church. And then ideally they can affect six to 12 people. And that is how you six to 12 people. And that is how you six to 12 people. And that is how you replicate the vision for the church by replicate the vision for the church by replicate the vision for the church by being vocal about values. And yeah, what being vocal about values. And yeah, what being vocal about values. And yeah, what is more rewarding than hearing someone is more rewarding than hearing someone is more rewarding than hearing someone that's been attending for like six that's been attending for like six that's been attending for like six months and then they say verbatim one of months and then they say verbatim one of months and then they say verbatim one of the values and they talk about how that the values and they talk about how that the values and they talk about how that is informing the decisions they make and is informing the decisions they make and is informing the decisions they make and the behavior that they commit to and the the behavior that they commit to and the the behavior that they commit to and the evaluation that they then put on evaluation that they then put on evaluation that they then put on themselves when they say, you know, am I themselves when they say, you know, am I themselves when they say, you know, am I living up to the standards that I claim living up to the standards that I claim living up to the standards that I claim I want to? Only way to get there is not I want to? Only way to get there is not I want to? Only way to get there is not just about just about codifying the just about just about codifying the just about just about codifying the values, but then again, never shutting values, but then again, never shutting values, but then again, never shutting up. Exactly. So on the heels of that, up. Exactly. So on the heels of that, up. Exactly. So on the heels of that, number nine, uh, healthy churches are number nine, uh, healthy churches are number nine, uh, healthy churches are accountable to the mission. Yeah, I got accountable to the mission. Yeah, I got accountable to the mission. Yeah, I got into this a little bit earlier.

into this a little bit earlier. into this a little bit earlier. Basically, this is the antidote for the Basically, this is the antidote for the Basically, this is the antidote for the senior leader that can never be senior leader that can never be senior leader that can never be questioned, which I think we've all seen questioned, which I think we've all seen questioned, which I think we've all seen or been a part of a church where it's or been a part of a church where it's or been a part of a church where it's like that where like we're accountable like that where like we're accountable like that where like we're accountable to almost always his vision. to almost always his vision. to almost always his vision. No, we're accountable to the mission of No, we're accountable to the mission of No, we're accountable to the mission of the church. And if the senior leader is the church. And if the senior leader is the church. And if the senior leader is making decisions or slipping into habits making decisions or slipping into habits making decisions or slipping into habits of behavior that are antithetical to the of behavior that are antithetical to the of behavior that are antithetical to the mission, then that means they are out of mission, then that means they are out of mission, then that means they are out of line because the head of this church is line because the head of this church is line because the head of this church is Jesus. That's right. Not this person. Jesus. That's right. Not this person. Jesus. That's right. Not this person. They are the shepherd for this flock of They are the shepherd for this flock of They are the shepherd for this flock of people and they have a role of people and they have a role of people and they have a role of authority, but the mission is what is authority, but the mission is what is authority, but the mission is what is always there. M and the churches that always there. M and the churches that always there. M and the churches that are the healthiest, they have this habit are the healthiest, they have this habit are the healthiest, they have this habit of in their yearly reviews, in their of in their yearly reviews, in their of in their yearly reviews, in their ministries, in their volunteer teams, ministries, in their volunteer teams, ministries, in their volunteer teams, hey, we're doing this thing. Why are we hey, we're doing this thing. Why are we hey, we're doing this thing. Why are we doing this? Well, we're doing it for doing this? Well, we're doing it for doing this? Well, we're doing it for this reason. And you anchor back to this reason. And you anchor back to this reason. And you anchor back to mission. And you anchor back to mission. mission. And you anchor back to mission. mission. And you anchor back to mission. So, there's accountability and there's So, there's accountability and there's So, there's accountability and there's also anchoring to remind everyone why also anchoring to remind everyone why also anchoring to remind everyone why we're doing it. And the more that you we're doing it. And the more that you we're doing it. And the more that you reinforce and reemphasize that, the more reinforce and reemphasize that, the more reinforce and reemphasize that, the more people are able to act in the way that people are able to act in the way that people are able to act in the way that you want because they can truly see this you want because they can truly see this you want because they can truly see this isn't just about like one dude's ideas.

isn't just about like one dude's ideas. isn't just about like one dude's ideas. That's right. This is about a church That's right. This is about a church That's right. This is about a church that is living out the words of that is living out the words of that is living out the words of scripture and the wisdom of scripture in scripture and the wisdom of scripture in scripture and the wisdom of scripture in practical ways. And all of us followers practical ways. And all of us followers practical ways. And all of us followers of Jesus are like, "Yeah, that is what I of Jesus are like, "Yeah, that is what I of Jesus are like, "Yeah, that is what I want." And I can trust that the holy want." And I can trust that the holy want." And I can trust that the holy character resides in these leaders character resides in these leaders character resides in these leaders because you can see that they're holding because you can see that they're holding because you can see that they're holding themselves accountable just as much as themselves accountable just as much as themselves accountable just as much as they expect me to be held accountable. they expect me to be held accountable. they expect me to be held accountable. And truthfully, they're almost certainly And truthfully, they're almost certainly And truthfully, they're almost certainly holding themselves to a higher degree of holding themselves to a higher degree of holding themselves to a higher degree of account because of how much more they're account because of how much more they're account because of how much more they're involved by nature of their vocation. involved by nature of their vocation. involved by nature of their vocation. Well, and that's it, right? Like to to Well, and that's it, right? Like to to Well, and that's it, right? Like to to to be a healthy community requires to be a healthy community requires to be a healthy community requires accountability to something. And so you accountability to something. And so you accountability to something. And so you have to discern what that thing is. And have to discern what that thing is. And have to discern what that thing is. And for our Christian communities, well, we for our Christian communities, well, we for our Christian communities, well, we have a mission. and and and like we've have a mission. and and and like we've have a mission. and and and like we've said on on this episode and we say so said on on this episode and we say so said on on this episode and we say so many times, all of our churches say it many times, all of our churches say it many times, all of our churches say it differently, but the mission is the differently, but the mission is the differently, but the mission is the mission that was handed uh to the mission that was handed uh to the mission that was handed uh to the disciples by Jesus and we're just disciples by Jesus and we're just disciples by Jesus and we're just following along. And so we're following along. And so we're following along. And so we're accountable to each other, but yes, accountable to each other, but yes, accountable to each other, but yes, accountable to that mission which came accountable to that mission which came accountable to that mission which came from what we believe to be God himself from what we believe to be God himself from what we believe to be God himself is to go out and and make disciples in is to go out and and make disciples in is to go out and and make disciples in the love and the the grace and peace of the love and the the grace and peace of the love and the the grace and peace of Jesus Christ. And so keeping ourselves Jesus Christ. And so keeping ourselves Jesus Christ. And so keeping ourselves accountable to that ends up keeping our accountable to that ends up keeping our accountable to that ends up keeping our communities uh accountable and and um communities uh accountable and and um communities uh accountable and and um avoids a lot of the pitfalls of avoids a lot of the pitfalls of avoids a lot of the pitfalls of unhealthy communities, unhealthy unhealthy communities, unhealthy unhealthy communities, unhealthy leaders, unhealthy people. Um it kind of leaders, unhealthy people. Um it kind of leaders, unhealthy people. Um it kind of all hinges on accountability. Uh let's all hinges on accountability. Uh let's all hinges on accountability. Uh let's bring it home. Number 10, healthy bring it home. Number 10, healthy bring it home. Number 10, healthy churches do this thing. They emphasize churches do this thing. They emphasize churches do this thing. They emphasize young people. Yeah. Alex said that every young people. Yeah. Alex said that every young people. Yeah. Alex said that every one of these stanzas, axioms, values,

one of these stanzas, axioms, values, one of these stanzas, axioms, values, healthy habits is undergurtded by a healthy habits is undergurtded by a healthy habits is undergurtded by a scripture. Well, not this one. I don't scripture. Well, not this one. I don't scripture. Well, not this one. I don't know if there is a scriptural seeing an know if there is a scriptural seeing an know if there is a scriptural seeing an image of Jesus welcoming little children image of Jesus welcoming little children image of Jesus welcoming little children and they're saying and then saying and and they're saying and then saying and and they're saying and then saying and actually this will help you grow your actually this will help you grow your actually this will help you grow your church. So, this one is based on church. So, this one is based on church. So, this one is based on research data. And if you go into the research data. And if you go into the research data. And if you go into the podcast archives, you can find an podcast archives, you can find an podcast archives, you can find an episode that we did with Dr. Cara episode that we did with Dr. Cara episode that we did with Dr. Cara Powell, one of the authors of the book Powell, one of the authors of the book Powell, one of the authors of the book Growing Young. that was uh published by Growing Young. that was uh published by Growing Young. that was uh published by the Fuller Youth Institute. We're just the Fuller Youth Institute. We're just the Fuller Youth Institute. We're just going to quote kind of the general going to quote kind of the general going to quote kind of the general thesis of this book based on research. thesis of this book based on research. thesis of this book based on research. We're actually calling for churches to We're actually calling for churches to We're actually calling for churches to dedicate a disproportionately large dedicate a disproportionately large dedicate a disproportionately large amount of attention and investment in amount of attention and investment in amount of attention and investment in teenagers and young adults. Why? Because teenagers and young adults. Why? Because teenagers and young adults. Why? Because churches that make young people feel at churches that make young people feel at churches that make young people feel at home experience growth across all home experience growth across all home experience growth across all generations. In other words, young generations. In other words, young generations. In other words, young people multiply what is invested in them people multiply what is invested in them people multiply what is invested in them into the rest of their congregation. into the rest of their congregation. into the rest of their congregation. you can interrogate the data you can interrogate the data you can interrogate the data to basically counteract this to basically counteract this to basically counteract this claim. But if you believe that the data claim. But if you believe that the data claim. But if you believe that the data was properly accumulated, um what this was properly accumulated, um what this was properly accumulated, um what this suggests is that the healthiest churches suggests is that the healthiest churches suggests is that the healthiest churches have this disproportionate focus on have this disproportionate focus on have this disproportionate focus on young people. Why? Because every other young people. Why? Because every other young people. Why? Because every other generation benefits from this. I have generation benefits from this. I have generation benefits from this. I have seen this um in the church that I grew seen this um in the church that I grew seen this um in the church that I grew up in. So I've seen it firsthand. one up in. So I've seen it firsthand. one up in. So I've seen it firsthand. one person's anecdotal evidence doesn't mean person's anecdotal evidence doesn't mean person's anecdotal evidence doesn't mean that it's right.

that it's right. that it's right. This published research is not This published research is not This published research is not unassailable. No research is uh but I am unassailable. No research is uh but I am unassailable. No research is uh but I am very much convinced that if we're very much convinced that if we're very much convinced that if we're looking for practical applications of looking for practical applications of looking for practical applications of which these healthy habits albeit have which these healthy habits albeit have which these healthy habits albeit have not included too much practical not included too much practical not included too much practical application. This is one of the few that application. This is one of the few that application. This is one of the few that I think every church can lean into and I think every church can lean into and I think every church can lean into and healthy outcomes will come from it. I healthy outcomes will come from it. I healthy outcomes will come from it. I think think think the what I would say is the the the what I would say is the the the what I would say is the the spiritual element to that is the same spiritual element to that is the same spiritual element to that is the same thing that we've talked about earlier thing that we've talked about earlier thing that we've talked about earlier which is to look at young which is to look at young which is to look at young people and see them as worth investing people and see them as worth investing people and see them as worth investing in disproportionately like giving more in disproportionately like giving more in disproportionately like giving more res investing more resources into the res investing more resources into the res investing more resources into the young people than than other areas of young people than than other areas of young people than than other areas of your church. I think that actually is an your church. I think that actually is an your church. I think that actually is an act of prophetic imagination. I think act of prophetic imagination. I think act of prophetic imagination. I think it's looking at something that is not it's looking at something that is not it's looking at something that is not yet. You're looking at kids who are yet. You're looking at kids who are yet. You're looking at kids who are still kids. They're acting a fool. still kids. They're acting a fool. still kids. They're acting a fool. They're teenagers doing ridiculous They're teenagers doing ridiculous They're teenagers doing ridiculous things. They're disappointing you things. They're disappointing you things. They're disappointing you because they're not as mature as you because they're not as mature as you because they're not as mature as you want them to be. Uh their hair is want them to be. Uh their hair is want them to be. Uh their hair is ridiculous. What are they wearing? What ridiculous. What are they wearing? What ridiculous. What are they wearing? What are they saying? What are the songs they are they saying? What are the songs they are they saying? What are the songs they want us to sing? You're looking at that want us to sing? You're looking at that want us to sing? You're looking at that kind of mess and you see the future of kind of mess and you see the future of kind of mess and you see the future of the church. And that takes prophetic the church. And that takes prophetic the church. And that takes prophetic imagination to do because on the surface imagination to do because on the surface imagination to do because on the surface it's like, "No, these kids these kids it's like, "No, these kids these kids it's like, "No, these kids these kids are are out of control." Um, but to to are are out of control." Um, but to to are are out of control." Um, but to to disproportionately invest in them is an disproportionately invest in them is an disproportionately invest in them is an act of like of faith of like seeing that act of like of faith of like seeing that act of like of faith of like seeing that that we only get older. And so and so that we only get older. And so and so that we only get older. And so and so these kids are going to be the future of these kids are going to be the future of these kids are going to be the future of this community if they stick around. And

this community if they stick around. And this community if they stick around. And so how can we pave the way? How can we so how can we pave the way? How can we so how can we pave the way? How can we extend the runway for them to stick extend the runway for them to stick extend the runway for them to stick around and get married in this church around and get married in this church around and get married in this church and have kids in this church and raise and have kids in this church and raise and have kids in this church and raise families in this church so that this families in this church so that this families in this church so that this community here at the corner of whatever community here at the corner of whatever community here at the corner of whatever intersection your church finds itself on intersection your church finds itself on intersection your church finds itself on can continue to grow and continue to can continue to grow and continue to can continue to grow and continue to thrive. Um, I've been really like thrive. Um, I've been really like thrive. Um, I've been really like encouraged and inspired by Dr. Caral's encouraged and inspired by Dr. Caral's encouraged and inspired by Dr. Caral's work. Um, she's got a new book that she work. Um, she's got a new book that she work. Um, she's got a new book that she actually just sent us two copies of actually just sent us two copies of actually just sent us two copies of called Future Focus Church. And that's called Future Focus Church. And that's called Future Focus Church. And that's the reason we do this episode. It was the reason we do this episode. It was the reason we do this episode. It was all an ad. You've been fooled. I haven't all an ad. You've been fooled. I haven't all an ad. You've been fooled. I haven't read it yet. Uh, but I'm eager to read read it yet. Uh, but I'm eager to read read it yet. Uh, but I'm eager to read it. Uh I just it just came in the mail. it. Uh I just it just came in the mail. it. Uh I just it just came in the mail. It surprised us here at the office came It surprised us here at the office came It surprised us here at the office came in the mail the other day. Um so yeah, in the mail the other day. Um so yeah, in the mail the other day. Um so yeah, of course our affiliate links for the of course our affiliate links for the of course our affiliate links for the sales of those books are in the sales of those books are in the sales of those books are in the description. But um yeah, I since since description. But um yeah, I since since description. But um yeah, I since since being exposed to to her work and uh the being exposed to to her work and uh the being exposed to to her work and uh the the Fuller Youth Institute and paying the Fuller Youth Institute and paying the Fuller Youth Institute and paying attention to the data that they're attention to the data that they're attention to the data that they're presenting, our church has changed some presenting, our church has changed some presenting, our church has changed some of our habits. We've changed what we've of our habits. We've changed what we've of our habits. We've changed what we've said yes to, what we've said no to. said yes to, what we've said no to. said yes to, what we've said no to. We've changed where we are investing We've changed where we are investing We've changed where we are investing resources, both time and money, and it's resources, both time and money, and it's resources, both time and money, and it's been it's been uh youth centric, youth been it's been uh youth centric, youth been it's been uh youth centric, youth focused. And so, like you said, that's focused. And so, like you said, that's focused. And so, like you said, that's an investment that that you don't get to an investment that that you don't get to an investment that that you don't get to harvest right away. Um but it's it's harvest right away. Um but it's it's harvest right away. Um but it's it's sewing good seeds and uh and I I I also sewing good seeds and uh and I I I also sewing good seeds and uh and I I I also believe I'm with you. I believe that the believe I'm with you. I believe that the believe I'm with you. I believe that the the data proves it as well. To be clear, the data proves it as well. To be clear, the data proves it as well. To be clear, no affiliate links, no ads. We do not no affiliate links, no ads. We do not no affiliate links, no ads. We do not and never have engaged in any of those and never have engaged in any of those and never have engaged in any of those things. If you do, that's cool. We we things. If you do, that's cool. We we things. If you do, that's cool. We we just don't hear. Um, if you're thinking just don't hear. Um, if you're thinking just don't hear. Um, if you're thinking about this in terms of pure years, if about this in terms of pure years, if about this in terms of pure years, if the average person lives to 80, let's

the average person lives to 80, let's the average person lives to 80, let's say, and you're as a church choosing to say, and you're as a church choosing to say, and you're as a church choosing to invest, okay, if we're going to we can invest, okay, if we're going to we can invest, okay, if we're going to we can invest evenly, let's say, or we can invest evenly, let's say, or we can invest evenly, let's say, or we can invest disproportionately. If you invest invest disproportionately. If you invest invest disproportionately. If you invest in the 40-year-olds, the 60-year-olds in the 40-year-olds, the 60-year-olds in the 40-year-olds, the 60-year-olds for your church and for the global for your church and for the global for your church and for the global church, they might have 40 years left, church, they might have 40 years left, church, they might have 40 years left, 20 years left. M you invest those same 20 years left. M you invest those same 20 years left. M you invest those same resources or disproportionate resources resources or disproportionate resources resources or disproportionate resources in the 20-year-olds, they got 60 years in the 20-year-olds, they got 60 years in the 20-year-olds, they got 60 years left. And so I do think there's left. And so I do think there's left. And so I do think there's something to that. Yes. The other part something to that. Yes. The other part something to that. Yes. The other part is I remember my mom saying to me when I is I remember my mom saying to me when I is I remember my mom saying to me when I started this company at 21, she said started this company at 21, she said started this company at 21, she said like you are working with extreme vigor like you are working with extreme vigor like you are working with extreme vigor right now. She's like keep it up as long right now. She's like keep it up as long right now. She's like keep it up as long as you can because one day you just as you can because one day you just as you can because one day you just won't want to show up in the same way. I won't want to show up in the same way. I won't want to show up in the same way. I have two kids. I'm 34 now. I'm not quite have two kids. I'm 34 now. I'm not quite have two kids. I'm 34 now. I'm not quite there yet, but like I don't have the there yet, but like I don't have the there yet, but like I don't have the same vitality as I did in my 20s. And so same vitality as I did in my 20s. And so same vitality as I did in my 20s. And so like it makes a lot of sense to invest like it makes a lot of sense to invest like it makes a lot of sense to invest in people when like they have the most in people when like they have the most in people when like they have the most energy and like effort to give. Like energy and like effort to give. Like energy and like effort to give. Like there's a reason why professional there's a reason why professional there's a reason why professional athletes and Olympians are in their 20s.

athletes and Olympians are in their 20s. athletes and Olympians are in their 20s. Yeah. And like you see an athlete like Yeah. And like you see an athlete like Yeah. And like you see an athlete like LeBron James or Tom Brady, you're like LeBron James or Tom Brady, you're like LeBron James or Tom Brady, you're like why and how are you doing this as a why and how are you doing this as a why and how are you doing this as a 40-some year old? That is insane. Mhm. 40-some year old? That is insane. Mhm. 40-some year old? That is insane. Mhm. The same is true for the energy that The same is true for the energy that The same is true for the energy that young people bring to their faith and to young people bring to their faith and to young people bring to their faith and to sharing the gospel and you just see like sharing the gospel and you just see like sharing the gospel and you just see like people get older and and it's a fight people get older and and it's a fight people get older and and it's a fight against losing your prophetic against losing your prophetic against losing your prophetic imagination. It's a fight against like imagination. It's a fight against like imagination. It's a fight against like becoming bitter. It's a fight to protect becoming bitter. It's a fight to protect becoming bitter. It's a fight to protect this calculated delusion. There's no this calculated delusion. There's no this calculated delusion. There's no protect there's no like protecting protect there's no like protecting protect there's no like protecting calculated delusion. You're just calculated delusion. You're just calculated delusion. You're just delusional in the best way. And so like delusional in the best way. And so like delusional in the best way. And so like investing in that generation absolutely investing in that generation absolutely investing in that generation absolutely makes sense that it would pay spiritual makes sense that it would pay spiritual makes sense that it would pay spiritual dividends not just for them, not just dividends not just for them, not just dividends not just for them, not just for the global church, not just for your for the global church, not just for your for the global church, not just for your church, but every single generation in church, but every single generation in church, but every single generation in your church as well. 10 healthy habits. your church as well. 10 healthy habits. your church as well. 10 healthy habits. Did we miss one? Something you'd like to Did we miss one? Something you'd like to Did we miss one? Something you'd like to add? Throw it into the comments. We'll add? Throw it into the comments. We'll add? Throw it into the comments. We'll see you next week. Thanks always for see you next week. Thanks always for see you next week. Thanks always for your time, attention, and trust. Some your time, attention, and trust. Some your time, attention, and trust. Some good wrestling this weekend, though. good wrestling this weekend, though. good wrestling this weekend, though. Like this past weekend. Yeah. You still Like this past weekend. Yeah. You still Like this past weekend. Yeah. You still keeping up with it? Yeah. I'll watch the keeping up with it? Yeah. I'll watch the keeping up with it? Yeah. I'll watch the recaps. Nice. All right. Hey, that's a recaps. Nice. All right. Hey, that's a recaps. Nice. All right. Hey, that's a look and a recap on what Mitch has look and a recap on what Mitch has look and a recap on what Mitch has yelled into the void on when I wake up yelled into the void on when I wake up yelled into the void on when I wake up on Tuesday morning or whatever. Poor on Tuesday morning or whatever. Poor on Tuesday morning or whatever. Poor guy.