Standout Church Trends of the 2020s

time to check in on the state of time to check in on the state of Christianity and religion to do this Christianity and religion to do this Christianity and religion to do this we've assembled an assortment of we've assembled an assortment of we've assembled an assortment of databack trends that are emerging this databack trends that are emerging this databack trends that are emerging this decade that we think you should know decade that we think you should know decade that we think you should know about for example what is the one about for example what is the one about for example what is the one denomination that's growing what is the denomination that's growing what is the denomination that's growing what is the strongest force in American religion and strongest force in American religion and strongest force in American religion and what are the names most commonly used in what are the names most commonly used in what are the names most commonly used in New Church plants let's dive New Church plants let's dive New Church plants let's dive in well hey there and welcome to the pro in well hey there and welcome to the pro in well hey there and welcome to the pro Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you Church tool show we're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest and your church navigate the biggest and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm Brandy Sher your host I'm join as always Brandy Sher your host I'm join as always Brandy Sher your host I'm join as always my co-host it's Alexander Mills hello my co-host it's Alexander Mills hello my co-host it's Alexander Mills hello hello and back again to help us sort hello and back again to help us sort hello and back again to help us sort through the standout Church trends of through the standout Church trends of through the standout Church trends of the decade it's the scholar Ryan bur the decade it's the scholar Ryan bur the decade it's the scholar Ryan bur Ryan welcome back to the show great to Ryan welcome back to the show great to Ryan welcome back to the show great to have you the scholar that's how what have you the scholar that's how what have you the scholar that's how what we're going with now I mean I'll take it we're going with now I mean I'll take it we're going with now I mean I'll take it but I've never heard that before didn't but I've never heard that before didn't but I've never heard that before didn't uh did I see you're doing like some PhD uh did I see you're doing like some PhD uh did I see you're doing like some PhD pursuit of some kind did I read that pursuit of some kind did I read that pursuit of some kind did I read that correct I already have a PhD dude so correct I already have a PhD dude so correct I already have a PhD dude so then you're absolutely The then you're absolutely The then you're absolutely The Scholar like I've heard academic Scholar like I've heard academic Scholar like I've heard academic Professor uh researcher not I'll take Professor uh researcher not I'll take Professor uh researcher not I'll take scholar though that sounds very nice scholar though that sounds very nice scholar though that sounds very nice thank you very much Brady add it to your thank you very much Brady add it to your thank you very much Brady add it to your bio it's yours now uh also worth adding bio it's yours now uh also worth adding bio it's yours now uh also worth adding to the bio presumably like the PHD it's to the bio presumably like the PHD it's to the bio presumably like the PHD it's already there is uh Ryan's great substat already there is uh Ryan's great substat already there is uh Ryan's great substat graphs about religion graphs about graphs about religion graphs about graphs about religion graphs about religion.com is where to find that and religion.com is where to find that and religion.com is where to find that and in this episode We have basically as we in this episode We have basically as we in this episode We have basically as we like to do maybe every quarter roughly like to do maybe every quarter roughly like to do maybe every quarter roughly bring Ryan on the show is look through bring Ryan on the show is look through bring Ryan on the show is look through the articles that he he's published the the articles that he he's published the the articles that he he's published the data that he has mined through and data that he has mined through and data that he has mined through and compiled to basically talk about the compiled to basically talk about the compiled to basically talk about the things that are standing out to us as things that are standing out to us as things that are standing out to us as interesting as they intersect with what interesting as they intersect with what interesting as they intersect with what what we do and the first Trend we wanted what we do and the first Trend we wanted what we do and the first Trend we wanted to talk about was church names and this

to talk about was church names and this to talk about was church names and this comes from an article February 27th of comes from an article February 27th of comes from an article February 27th of 2025 titled what's in a name Trends in 2025 titled what's in a name Trends in 2025 titled what's in a name Trends in church branding to quote the article church branding to quote the article church branding to quote the article churches seem to want a name that is churches seem to want a name that is churches seem to want a name that is vaguely spiritual but also extremely vaguely spiritual but also extremely vaguely spiritual but also extremely catchy and at least for me two of the catchy and at least for me two of the catchy and at least for me two of the things that stood out were how many things that stood out were how many things that stood out were how many words were in the average name of a words were in the average name of a words were in the average name of a church plant before we get into that can church plant before we get into that can church plant before we get into that can we talk a little bit about the database we talk a little bit about the database we talk a little bit about the database that you pulled from uh Ryan how you that you pulled from uh Ryan how you that you pulled from uh Ryan how you found the the on specifically newer found the the on specifically newer found the the on specifically newer churches that are cropping up yeah I churches that are cropping up yeah I churches that are cropping up yeah I went to there's a there's a um a church went to there's a there's a um a church went to there's a there's a um a church planting Network I'm was going to assume planting Network I'm was going to assume planting Network I'm was going to assume folks in your in your world know what folks in your in your world know what folks in your in your world know what that is it's called ark Association of that is it's called ark Association of that is it's called ark Association of related churches and the reason I know related churches and the reason I know related churches and the reason I know about is because there's a church about about is because there's a church about about is because there's a church about 25 miles away that was planted by Ark 25 miles away that was planted by Ark 25 miles away that was planted by Ark and became the fastest uh fastest and became the fastest uh fastest and became the fastest uh fastest growing the largest church in that growing the largest church in that growing the largest church in that community in a span of like five or six community in a span of like five or six community in a span of like five or six years so it sort of like became exactly years so it sort of like became exactly years so it sort of like became exactly what they would want it to do and it was what they would want it to do and it was what they would want it to do and it was named City hope and I thought well named City hope and I thought well named City hope and I thought well that's an interesting name I wonder if that's an interesting name I wonder if that's an interesting name I wonder if that's typical name so I thought and that's typical name so I thought and that's typical name so I thought and here's the other part too Arc makes it here's the other part too Arc makes it here's the other part too Arc makes it super easy to just like grab all their super easy to just like grab all their super easy to just like grab all their stuff and like put it in a database stuff and like put it in a database stuff and like put it in a database other websites make it like super other websites make it like super other websites make it like super complicated you got to like fix things complicated you got to like fix things complicated you got to like fix things and move things and change things they and move things and change things they and move things and change things they don't do that they just put it all right don't do that they just put it all right don't do that they just put it all right there copy paste boom bang boom you got there copy paste boom bang boom you got there copy paste boom bang boom you got a thing so easy like that right now a thing so easy like that right now a thing so easy like that right now we're in a moment where all the trends we're in a moment where all the trends we're in a moment where all the trends that I grew up with that I liked are that I grew up with that I liked are that I grew up with that I liked are being rejected by gen being rejected by gen being rejected by gen Z like interior design is is a big one Z like interior design is is a big one Z like interior design is is a big one you can even look at the studio that you can even look at the studio that you can even look at the studio that we're filming in now actually don't we're filming in now actually don't we're filming in now actually don't because it's now embarrassing you know

because it's now embarrassing you know because it's now embarrassing you know the the clean white aesthetic cuz when I the the clean white aesthetic cuz when I the the clean white aesthetic cuz when I grew up in you know in in the 90s all of grew up in you know in in the 90s all of grew up in you know in in the 90s all of our homes were very eclectic and so like our homes were very eclectic and so like our homes were very eclectic and so like coming out of that it was all clean coming out of that it was all clean coming out of that it was all clean design you know if if you think about design you know if if you think about design you know if if you think about graphic design the flat design icons of graphic design the flat design icons of graphic design the flat design icons of the app store right like everything was the app store right like everything was the app store right like everything was simple and now j z is coming in and it's simple and now j z is coming in and it's simple and now j z is coming in and it's like hey have you heard of Personality like hey have you heard of Personality like hey have you heard of Personality like let's have some fun and so I I'm like let's have some fun and so I I'm like let's have some fun and so I I'm really fascinated to see what like what really fascinated to see what like what really fascinated to see what like what the next trend of church names becomes the next trend of church names becomes the next trend of church names becomes um because we you know looking at some um because we you know looking at some um because we you know looking at some of the data here there were two words of the data here there were two words of the data here there were two words we'll put the graph on the screen if we'll put the graph on the screen if we'll put the graph on the screen if you're watching on YouTube We Will and you're watching on YouTube We Will and you're watching on YouTube We Will and all these articles will be linked so you all these articles will be linked so you all these articles will be linked so you can dive deeper into them as well uh the can dive deeper into them as well uh the can dive deeper into them as well uh the two words that were most frequently used two words that were most frequently used two words that were most frequently used in this you know database of 1200 plus in this you know database of 1200 plus in this you know database of 1200 plus Church plants Far and Away uh number one Church plants Far and Away uh number one Church plants Far and Away uh number one the word life and number two the word the word life and number two the word the word life and number two the word City interestingly as well 30% of the City interestingly as well 30% of the City interestingly as well 30% of the plants used two word names this is what plants used two word names this is what plants used two word names this is what surprised me 38% % of these churches had surprised me 38% % of these churches had surprised me 38% % of these churches had names that were four or five words long names that were four or five words long names that were four or five words long Ryan what are we supposed to read with Ryan what are we supposed to read with Ryan what are we supposed to read with that because you know I would think that because you know I would think that because you know I would think about like Simplicity like four or five about like Simplicity like four or five about like Simplicity like four or five words that's pretty long like our words that's pretty long like our words that's pretty long like our company's name is three words and company's name is three words and company's name is three words and already that that's Agony on its own already that that's Agony on its own already that that's Agony on its own mine's graphs about religion I guess mine's graphs about religion I guess mine's graphs about religion I guess yeah about it's not really a real word yeah about it's not really a real word yeah about it's not really a real word you know it's like a it's a transition you know it's like a it's a transition you know it's like a it's a transition word that's true it's two words let's word that's true it's two words let's word that's true it's two words let's just call it two words yeah um you know just call it two words yeah um you know just call it two words yeah um you know the problem with like the five word the problem with like the five word the problem with like the five word names is it's almost like branch names is it's almost like branch names is it's almost like branch campuses of a main campus it'd be like campuses of a main campus it'd be like campuses of a main campus it'd be like the Highland Church Birmingham whatever the Highland Church Birmingham whatever the Highland Church Birmingham whatever you know what I mean so like that's what you know what I mean so like that's what you know what I mean so like that's what adds to the name but a lot of churches adds to the name but a lot of churches adds to the name but a lot of churches will like they'll like smash together

will like they'll like smash together will like they'll like smash together two words into one word sometimes like two words into one word sometimes like two words into one word sometimes like Life Church not two words one Church you Life Church not two words one Church you Life Church not two words one Church you know life church becomes one word like know life church becomes one word like know life church becomes one word like you capitalize the church at the end of you capitalize the church at the end of you capitalize the church at the end of it or something like that I I think it or something like that I I think it or something like that I I think they're like they like went to like the they're like they like went to like the they're like they like went to like the the like the name generator and hit like the like the name generator and hit like the like the name generator and hit like okay what's like could be a pot shop or okay what's like could be a pot shop or okay what's like could be a pot shop or could be a church somewhat aspirational could be a church somewhat aspirational could be a church somewhat aspirational but not too religious let's try to find but not too religious let's try to find but not too religious let's try to find the crease between all those things the crease between all those things the crease between all those things honestly if you guys want me to guess honestly if you guys want me to guess honestly if you guys want me to guess what the next like the next iteration of what the next like the next iteration of what the next like the next iteration of this is going to be here's my best guess this is going to be here's my best guess this is going to be here's my best guess it's going to be return to like St James it's going to be return to like St James it's going to be return to like St James or church for Sinners and Saints I hope or church for Sinners and Saints I hope or church for Sinners and Saints I hope so you know what I mean or something All so you know what I mean or something All so you know what I mean or something All Saints Church like a return back to like Saints Church like a return back to like Saints Church like a return back to like no no let's just call a church a church no no let's just call a church a church no no let's just call a church a church let's give it like a historical let's give it like a historical let's give it like a historical traditional understandable name that traditional understandable name that traditional understandable name that like 300 years ago that would have been like 300 years ago that would have been like 300 years ago that would have been a church it's like a hipster thing like a church it's like a hipster thing like a church it's like a hipster thing like the OG Church names are what we going to the OG Church names are what we going to the OG Church names are what we going to go back to we're in an era now I think go back to we're in an era now I think go back to we're in an era now I think the eror is not going to last that long the eror is not going to last that long the eror is not going to last that long well you just put your finger on it Ryan well you just put your finger on it Ryan well you just put your finger on it Ryan you you know you're talking we're you you know you're talking we're you you know you're talking we're talking about church plants we're talking about church plants we're talking about church plants we're talking about churches that are trying talking about churches that are trying talking about churches that are trying to appeal to a younger generation and to appeal to a younger generation and to appeal to a younger generation and trying to trying to name themselves trying to trying to name themselves trying to trying to name themselves something that doesn't appeal to be something that doesn't appeal to be something that doesn't appeal to be hyper religious and the data says that hyper religious and the data says that hyper religious and the data says that that's what gen Z the aforementioned gen that's what gen Z the aforementioned gen that's what gen Z the aforementioned gen Z is looking for they're looking for Z is looking for they're looking for Z is looking for they're looking for something beyond the post-modern story something beyond the post-modern story something beyond the post-modern story but they want it to to have more of a but they want it to to have more of a but they want it to to have more of a spiritual complexion and less of a spiritual complexion and less of a spiritual complexion and less of a traditional religious complexion I think traditional religious complexion I think traditional religious complexion I think that's what we see reflected in these that's what we see reflected in these that's what we see reflected in these names here is they don't have very much names here is they don't have very much names here is they don't have very much tradition to them um we're kind of tradition to them um we're kind of tradition to them um we're kind of coming for me personally here and I'm

coming for me personally here and I'm coming for me personally here and I'm going to be a specific Target of this going to be a specific Target of this going to be a specific Target of this episode in particular because I don't episode in particular because I don't episode in particular because I don't know if you know this about me Ryan but know if you know this about me Ryan but know if you know this about me Ryan but I'm a pastor but I Pastor a I'm a pastor but I Pastor a I'm a pastor but I Pastor a non-denominational church W um we are non-denominational church W um we are non-denominational church W um we are not a church plant um our church is 40 not a church plant um our church is 40 not a church plant um our church is 40 45 years old so our church is we do have 45 years old so our church is we do have 45 years old so our church is we do have the most common name here life in the the most common name here life in the the most common name here life in the name but un unseen on the graph abundant name but un unseen on the graph abundant name but un unseen on the graph abundant you won't see abundant in the modern you won't see abundant in the modern you won't see abundant in the modern lexicon we're called life abundant a lexicon we're called life abundant a lexicon we're called life abundant a little bit of uh modernity a little bit little bit of uh modernity a little bit little bit of uh modernity a little bit of tradition there so doing things a of tradition there so doing things a of tradition there so doing things a little bit different but I I agree I little bit different but I I agree I little bit different but I I agree I think that's what we're seeing here is think that's what we're seeing here is think that's what we're seeing here is you know Church PL trying to appeal to a you know Church PL trying to appeal to a you know Church PL trying to appeal to a younger generation who's saying like yes younger generation who's saying like yes younger generation who's saying like yes we're we're craving for something we're we're craving for something we're we're craving for something spiritual but maybe not something very spiritual but maybe not something very spiritual but maybe not something very traditional don't you think that young traditional don't you think that young traditional don't you think that young people like I don't want to go to like people like I don't want to go to like people like I don't want to go to like iHeart church or like in there's one in iHeart church or like in there's one in iHeart church or like in there's one in St Louis called enjoy church yeah I just St Louis called enjoy church yeah I just St Louis called enjoy church yeah I just like to me it's like isn't that just like to me it's like isn't that just like to me it's like isn't that just like cringy like I even if it's a great like cringy like I even if it's a great like cringy like I even if it's a great church and a great pastor and they church and a great pastor and they church and a great pastor and they really preach the Bible and do a good really preach the Bible and do a good really preach the Bible and do a good job ministering I just can't fathom a job ministering I just can't fathom a job ministering I just can't fathom a lot of young people being like yeah I go lot of young people being like yeah I go lot of young people being like yeah I go to iHeart Church like it just sounds too to iHeart Church like it just sounds too to iHeart Church like it just sounds too C like can you imagine your grandparents C like can you imagine your grandparents C like can you imagine your grandparents coming back from World War II and going coming back from World War II and going coming back from World War II and going yeah I go to iHeart yeah I go to iHeart yeah I go to iHeart Church you know what I mean like it just Church you know what I mean like it just Church you know what I mean like it just like stop trying to be cutesy about like stop trying to be cutesy about like stop trying to be cutesy about things you and just call Church what it things you and just call Church what it things you and just call Church what it is like you know like I said St James or is like you know like I said St James or is like you know like I said St James or St Andrews or St Patrick's or Sinners St Andrews or St Patrick's or Sinners St Andrews or St Patrick's or Sinners and Saints church or you know like and Saints church or you know like and Saints church or you know like something like that to me that's something like that to me that's something like that to me that's Timeless and what are you building your Timeless and what are you building your Timeless and what are you building your church for today or 50 years from now

church for today or 50 years from now church for today or 50 years from now yeah and like with that iHeart Church in yeah and like with that iHeart Church in yeah and like with that iHeart Church in 50 years are people still going to be 50 years are people still going to be 50 years are people still going to be happy that that's the name of that happy that that's the name of that happy that that's the name of that church I've got to believe there's going church I've got to believe there's going church I've got to believe there's going to be a lot of people go can we Rebrand to be a lot of people go can we Rebrand to be a lot of people go can we Rebrand again I mean you shouldn't have to again I mean you shouldn't have to again I mean you shouldn't have to Rebrand you shouldn't your church Rebrand you shouldn't your church Rebrand you shouldn't your church shouldn't be named something fattish it shouldn't be named something fattish it shouldn't be named something fattish it should be named something like fairly should be named something like fairly should be named something like fairly Eternal you know that's going to be just Eternal you know that's going to be just Eternal you know that's going to be just as good 100 years from now as it was 100 as good 100 years from now as it was 100 as good 100 years from now as it was 100 years that's why I don't get a tattoo by years that's why I don't get a tattoo by years that's why I don't get a tattoo by the way cuz I think is cool now is not the way cuz I think is cool now is not the way cuz I think is cool now is not going to be cool 50 years from now like going to be cool 50 years from now like going to be cool 50 years from now like all the 50y olds with their tribal all the 50y olds with their tribal all the 50y olds with their tribal tattoos and their their back tattoos did tattoos and their their back tattoos did tattoos and their their back tattoos did not age well okay like pick a name not age well okay like pick a name not age well okay like pick a name that's Eternal that's going to be fine that's Eternal that's going to be fine that's Eternal that's going to be fine for your kids your grandkids your for your kids your grandkids your for your kids your grandkids your great-grandkids and I I just worry that great-grandkids and I I just worry that great-grandkids and I I just worry that we've reached the end of the Seeker we've reached the end of the Seeker we've reached the end of the Seeker sensitive Movement Like This is the this sensitive Movement Like This is the this sensitive Movement Like This is the this is it like we've taken it as far as is it like we've taken it as far as is it like we've taken it as far as we've gone and there's nothing on the we've gone and there's nothing on the we've gone and there's nothing on the other side of it and maybe like we other side of it and maybe like we other side of it and maybe like we talked about the pendulum swings back talked about the pendulum swings back talked about the pendulum swings back and forth right in all things of of of and forth right in all things of of of and forth right in all things of of of society society society and we might be at the at the far end of and we might be at the at the far end of and we might be at the at the far end of the pendulum right now I agree tattoos the pendulum right now I agree tattoos the pendulum right now I agree tattoos are stupid that's right you you guys are stupid that's right you you guys are stupid that's right you you guys have a bunch don't you not have a bunch don't you not have a bunch don't you not me don't worry they're traditional me don't worry they're traditional me don't worry they're traditional traditional style look they area that's traditional style look they area that's traditional style look they area that's a good see there's nothing wrong with it a good see there's nothing wrong with it a good see there's nothing wrong with it going back to the olden day get an going back to the olden day get an going back to the olden day get an anchor on your arm I'm here for it get anchor on your arm I'm here for it get anchor on your arm I'm here for it get Mom with a heart let's go but like you Mom with a heart let's go but like you Mom with a heart let's go but like you know what I mean like the modern like know what I mean like the modern like know what I mean like the modern like even fonts weird me out cuz like fonts even fonts weird me out cuz like fonts even fonts weird me out cuz like fonts go through like fads and stuff they're go through like fads and stuff they're go through like fads and stuff they're cool now they won't be cool 10 years cool now they won't be cool 10 years cool now they won't be cool 10 years from now I just don't want to wear from now I just don't want to wear from now I just don't want to wear something on my skin forever that was something on my skin forever that was something on my skin forever that was cool in 2007 you know yeah tough times I cool in 2007 you know yeah tough times I cool in 2007 you know yeah tough times I uh the church that I uh was the media

uh the church that I uh was the media uh the church that I uh was the media director at when I was in Bible college director at when I was in Bible college director at when I was in Bible college so I was like 21 um the church plant was so I was like 21 um the church plant was so I was like 21 um the church plant was called the church at South Edmonton and called the church at South Edmonton and called the church at South Edmonton and shockingly it was located in the south shockingly it was located in the south shockingly it was located in the south of Edmonton which is the most northern of Edmonton which is the most northern of Edmonton which is the most northern major Metropolis on the continent and I major Metropolis on the continent and I major Metropolis on the continent and I remember thinking like wow what a cool remember thinking like wow what a cool remember thinking like wow what a cool name because it was very succinct and it name because it was very succinct and it name because it was very succinct and it did not you know subscribe to the the did not you know subscribe to the the did not you know subscribe to the the fads it was just like hey this is kind fads it was just like hey this is kind fads it was just like hey this is kind of like a throwback to how things were I of like a throwback to how things were I of like a throwback to how things were I I I kind of thought that that Trend I I kind of thought that that Trend I I kind of thought that that Trend would pick up more but not so much let's would pick up more but not so much let's would pick up more but not so much let's talk about the next Trend and this also talk about the next Trend and this also talk about the next Trend and this also aligns with the church that I was a part aligns with the church that I was a part aligns with the church that I was a part of as a media director because I went to of as a media director because I went to of as a media director because I went to uh Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada uh Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada uh Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada Bible college and that is the Canadian Bible college and that is the Canadian Bible college and that is the Canadian version of what the Americans and I version of what the Americans and I version of what the Americans and I believe the Australians call AOG maybe believe the Australians call AOG maybe believe the Australians call AOG maybe not the Australian pardon me Australia not the Australian pardon me Australia not the Australian pardon me Australia if I'm lumping you in there where you if I'm lumping you in there where you if I'm lumping you in there where you don't belong because you had an article don't belong because you had an article don't belong because you had an article early February of this year again called early February of this year again called early February of this year again called the assembles of God a denomination that the assembles of God a denomination that the assembles of God a denomination that may be growing a quote that I pulled out may be growing a quote that I pulled out may be growing a quote that I pulled out here what is out of fashion in American here what is out of fashion in American here what is out of fashion in American Protestant Christianity denominations Protestant Christianity denominations Protestant Christianity denominations you know and we saw that in the names you know and we saw that in the names you know and we saw that in the names right like those names aren't being right like those names aren't being right like those names aren't being shown up I grew up going to Church Hill shown up I grew up going to Church Hill shown up I grew up going to Church Hill Baptist Church I went to after that Baptist Church I went to after that Baptist Church I went to after that Alliston pentacostal Church like the Alliston pentacostal Church like the Alliston pentacostal Church like the name of the denomination was in the name of the denomination was in the name of the denomination was in the church name not so much anymore it's not church name not so much anymore it's not church name not so much anymore it's not iHeart Baptist it's just ihart heart iHeart Baptist it's just ihart heart iHeart Baptist it's just ihart heart regrettably um almost every major regrettably um almost every major regrettably um almost every major denomination is losing members at an denomination is losing members at an denomination is losing members at an incredibly rapid Pace tell us about AOG incredibly rapid Pace tell us about AOG incredibly rapid Pace tell us about AOG and how they are curbing this trend and how they are curbing this trend and how they are curbing this trend perhaps yeah like people go like what's

perhaps yeah like people go like what's perhaps yeah like people go like what's down in Christian I go denominations down in Christian I go denominations down in Christian I go denominations they go which one I go all of them like they go which one I go all of them like they go which one I go all of them like and that's really not an over like it's and that's really not an over like it's and that's really not an over like it's a slight simplification but not by much a slight simplification but not by much a slight simplification but not by much you go down the list right Southern Babs you go down the list right Southern Babs you go down the list right Southern Babs conventions down three million people conventions down three million people conventions down three million people United Methodist Church has lost 25% of United Methodist Church has lost 25% of United Methodist Church has lost 25% of their people in just the last 18 and 24 their people in just the last 18 and 24 their people in just the last 18 and 24 months uh the ELCA the PCU a like the months uh the ELCA the PCU a like the months uh the ELCA the PCU a like the Episcopal Church you go on the list it's Episcopal Church you go on the list it's Episcopal Church you go on the list it's it's bad it's bad and sometimes it's it's bad it's bad and sometimes it's it's bad it's bad and sometimes it's worse like the Disciples of Christ is worse like the Disciples of Christ is worse like the Disciples of Christ is down 75% from 1987 like that's really down 75% from 1987 like that's really down 75% from 1987 like that's really really bad the only L now I'll use to really bad the only L now I'll use to really bad the only L now I'll use to qualify here large denomination because qualify here large denomination because qualify here large denomination because there's a couple denominations in there's a couple denominations in there's a couple denominations in America that are small that are growing America that are small that are growing America that are small that are growing like the Presbyterian Church of America like the Presbyterian Church of America like the Presbyterian Church of America the PCA is growing but it's still really the PCA is growing but it's still really the PCA is growing but it's still really really small the Anglican Church North really small the Anglican Church North really small the Anglican Church North America is growing in America but it's America is growing in America but it's America is growing in America but it's only 125,000 people add 4,000 last year only 125,000 people add 4,000 last year only 125,000 people add 4,000 last year congratulations you know like that's congratulations you know like that's congratulations you know like that's growth but in the grand scheme of growth but in the grand scheme of growth but in the grand scheme of American religion you don't matter at American religion you don't matter at American religion you don't matter at all cuz the SBC is 13 million so the AOG all cuz the SBC is 13 million so the AOG all cuz the SBC is 13 million so the AOG has been they grew almost every year for has been they grew almost every year for has been they grew almost every year for like 50 years in a row which is insane like 50 years in a row which is insane like 50 years in a row which is insane um given what you know what we've seen um given what you know what we've seen um given what you know what we've seen in the rest of American religion now I in the rest of American religion now I in the rest of American religion now I will say this Co hurt him pretty bad will say this Co hurt him pretty bad will say this Co hurt him pretty bad actually I think it hurt them worse than actually I think it hurt them worse than actually I think it hurt them worse than a lot of other denominations because a lot of other denominations because a lot of other denominations because they were on the way up then they had a they were on the way up then they had a they were on the way up then they had a big drop but now what's interesting is big drop but now what's interesting is big drop but now what's interesting is within like two or three years their within like two or three years their within like two or three years their numbers are probably going to be up numbers are probably going to be up numbers are probably going to be up above those preco numbers so it was a above those preco numbers so it was a above those preco numbers so it was a blip but the trajectory is clearly in blip but the trajectory is clearly in blip but the trajectory is clearly in the upward Direction the positive the upward Direction the positive the upward Direction the positive direction question is why right I think direction question is why right I think direction question is why right I think a couple things one they're charismatic a couple things one they're charismatic a couple things one they're charismatic and charismatic thing is is just the and charismatic thing is is just the and charismatic thing is is just the thing right now even to go back to the

thing right now even to go back to the thing right now even to go back to the non-denominational discussion we just non-denominational discussion we just non-denominational discussion we just had like what's a common theme among non had like what's a common theme among non had like what's a common theme among non denoms charismatic worship is definitely denoms charismatic worship is definitely denoms charismatic worship is definitely the theme there almost all of them have the theme there almost all of them have the theme there almost all of them have drums and guitars and smoke machines we drums and guitars and smoke machines we drums and guitars and smoke machines we can talk about that all day long but can talk about that all day long but can talk about that all day long but they do I mean that's just a fact the so they do I mean that's just a fact the so they do I mean that's just a fact the so charismatic worship the other thing charismatic worship the other thing charismatic worship the other thing which I think is really super important which I think is really super important which I think is really super important about the of God is they've managed to about the of God is they've managed to about the of God is they've managed to seek out racial diversity in a way that seek out racial diversity in a way that seek out racial diversity in a way that most other denominations have really most other denominations have really most other denominations have really struggled in the United States to do so struggled in the United States to do so struggled in the United States to do so and I think that is the primary reason and I think that is the primary reason and I think that is the primary reason that they're growing while everyone else that they're growing while everyone else that they're growing while everyone else is declining oh that's interesting is declining oh that's interesting is declining oh that's interesting because growing up in a AOG church it because growing up in a AOG church it because growing up in a AOG church it was a point of Pride that I distinctly was a point of Pride that I distinctly was a point of Pride that I distinctly recall my youth pastor citing frequently recall my youth pastor citing frequently recall my youth pastor citing frequently hey we are in one of the very few hey we are in one of the very few hey we are in one of the very few denominations that is actually growing denominations that is actually growing denominations that is actually growing we are like gaining ground in an we are like gaining ground in an we are like gaining ground in an increasing ly secular country and increasing ly secular country and increasing ly secular country and continent and then came like this huge continent and then came like this huge continent and then came like this huge deconstructionist movement for our age deconstructionist movement for our age deconstructionist movement for our age group where we were disillusioned with group where we were disillusioned with group where we were disillusioned with our faith and we had to like ReDiscover our faith and we had to like ReDiscover our faith and we had to like ReDiscover it or turn our back on it and to think it or turn our back on it and to think it or turn our back on it and to think that 20 years ago like the AOG was that 20 years ago like the AOG was that 20 years ago like the AOG was growing fast forward 20 years through growing fast forward 20 years through growing fast forward 20 years through this whole you know Millennial this whole you know Millennial this whole you know Millennial deconstruction time then covid and they deconstruction time then covid and they deconstruction time then covid and they just have kept growing like I kind of just have kept growing like I kind of just have kept growing like I kind of was really surprised when I read through was really surprised when I read through was really surprised when I read through this because I was expecting that to be this because I was expecting that to be this because I was expecting that to be a thing of the past but but for it not a thing of the past but but for it not a thing of the past but but for it not to continue indefinitely I think to continue indefinitely I think to continue indefinitely I think highlighting on the you know racial highlighting on the you know racial highlighting on the you know racial diversity component is something that diversity component is something that diversity component is something that hadn't crossed my mind at all I mean you hadn't crossed my mind at all I mean you hadn't crossed my mind at all I mean you got America's less white guys like let's got America's less white guys like let's got America's less white guys like let's just be clear about that and every just be clear about that and every just be clear about that and every generation is less white than the prior

generation is less white than the prior generation is less white than the prior generation racial diversity is what the generation racial diversity is what the generation racial diversity is what the future of America looks like and I mean future of America looks like and I mean future of America looks like and I mean the fact that the Assemblies of God used the fact that the Assemblies of God used the fact that the Assemblies of God used to be 70% white now it's 55% white I to be 70% white now it's 55% white I to be 70% white now it's 55% white I mean the black shares almost doubled mean the black shares almost doubled mean the black shares almost doubled from 6% to 11% the Hispanic Shar is up from 6% to 11% the Hispanic Shar is up from 6% to 11% the Hispanic Shar is up seven points I mean that I'll have a seven points I mean that I'll have a seven points I mean that I'll have a post actually about the ministers in the post actually about the ministers in the post actually about the ministers in the of God coming out in a couple weeks of God coming out in a couple weeks of God coming out in a couple weeks trying to compare like they what they trying to compare like they what they trying to compare like they what they look like to like what the membership look like to like what the membership look like to like what the membership looks like actually the bigger problem looks like actually the bigger problem looks like actually the bigger problem AOG might face in the future is they AOG might face in the future is they AOG might face in the future is they don't know pastors like that's a good don't know pastors like that's a good don't know pastors like that's a good problem to have by the way like of all problem to have by the way like of all problem to have by the way like of all the problems to have like you're growing the problems to have like you're growing the problems to have like you're growing and you can't get enough it's like the and you can't get enough it's like the and you can't get enough it's like the parking lot runs out of parking spaces parking lot runs out of parking spaces parking lot runs out of parking spaces it's a problem but it's a really good it's a problem but it's a really good it's a problem but it's a really good problem to have not having enough problem to have not having enough problem to have not having enough pastors for growing congregations is a pastors for growing congregations is a pastors for growing congregations is a real problem and what I also worry about real problem and what I also worry about real problem and what I also worry about with Pastors in the assemblies is they with Pastors in the assemblies is they with Pastors in the assemblies is they are actually incredibly white they're are actually incredibly white they're are actually incredibly white they're almost 75% white still they racial almost 75% white still they racial almost 75% white still they racial composition hasn't changed while the composition hasn't changed while the composition hasn't changed while the people in the Pew's composition has people in the Pew's composition has people in the Pew's composition has changed a lot in the last 20 years and I changed a lot in the last 20 years and I changed a lot in the last 20 years and I think that's a real problem I think if I think that's a real problem I think if I think that's a real problem I think if I could point to the assembly and say could point to the assembly and say could point to the assembly and say here's one thing you need to work on is here's one thing you need to work on is here's one thing you need to work on is you need to raise up some you need to raise up some you need to raise up some African-American some Hispanic young African-American some Hispanic young African-American some Hispanic young people in your pews and you need to people in your pews and you need to people in your pews and you need to empower them to become leaders and then empower them to become leaders and then empower them to become leaders and then if they want to go to Seminary you need if they want to go to Seminary you need if they want to go to Seminary you need to fund that as much as you're able to to fund that as much as you're able to to fund that as much as you're able to to defay the cost of that because to defay the cost of that because to defay the cost of that because otherwise you're going to have the the otherwise you're going to have the the otherwise you're going to have the the not having leadership should not be a not having leadership should not be a not having leadership should not be a limiting factor for a denomination it limiting factor for a denomination it limiting factor for a denomination it should be other things that are outside should be other things that are outside should be other things that are outside your control and there's ways to fix it your control and there's ways to fix it your control and there's ways to fix it now they just need to get ahead of it I now they just need to get ahead of it I now they just need to get ahead of it I think what you said there Ryan is is think what you said there Ryan is is think what you said there Ryan is is just so imperative for for this topic just so imperative for for this topic just so imperative for for this topic this conversation and for any Pastor or this conversation and for any Pastor or this conversation and for any Pastor or frankly anyone who belongs to a frankly anyone who belongs to a frankly anyone who belongs to a Christian Community in the west Christian Community in the west Christian Community in the west listening is that what the Assemblies of

listening is that what the Assemblies of listening is that what the Assemblies of God seems to be doing in their Christian God seems to be doing in their Christian God seems to be doing in their Christian communities is embodying the the entire communities is embodying the the entire communities is embodying the the entire complexion of the the state of of the complexion of the the state of of the complexion of the the state of of the the complexion of the countries we live the complexion of the countries we live the complexion of the countries we live in like you just said you know like our in like you just said you know like our in like you just said you know like our commities are becoming less white we commities are becoming less white we commities are becoming less white we we're we're just down the road from we're we're just down the road from we're we're just down the road from Toronto it's one of the most Toronto it's one of the most Toronto it's one of the most Multicultural cities in in North America Multicultural cities in in North America Multicultural cities in in North America and so the Assemblies of God seems to be and so the Assemblies of God seems to be and so the Assemblies of God seems to be embodying the true complexion of the embodying the true complexion of the embodying the true complexion of the Cities they belong to in in the church Cities they belong to in in the church Cities they belong to in in the church building and just that alone um seems to building and just that alone um seems to building and just that alone um seems to say to me that they're creating a safe say to me that they're creating a safe say to me that they're creating a safe space for everyone um regardless of of space for everyone um regardless of of space for everyone um regardless of of their their racial identity and and that their their racial identity and and that their their racial identity and and that you know it it the the path toward you know it it the the path toward you know it it the the path toward sustainable growth seems Seems to be um sustainable growth seems Seems to be um sustainable growth seems Seems to be um logical there in an environment like logical there in an environment like logical there in an environment like that yeah and then just how does that that yeah and then just how does that that yeah and then just how does that carry over in the next decade or two carry over in the next decade or two carry over in the next decade or two with the people on the stage yes we've with the people on the stage yes we've with the people on the stage yes we've talked about uh diversity in terms of talked about uh diversity in terms of talked about uh diversity in terms of race how about diversity in terms of race how about diversity in terms of race how about diversity in terms of gender there has been this pervasive gender there has been this pervasive gender there has been this pervasive belief in church but I think also in belief in church but I think also in belief in church but I think also in social science as a whole that women are social science as a whole that women are social science as a whole that women are more religious than men so it stood out more religious than men so it stood out more religious than men so it stood out to me that you published an article in to me that you published an article in to me that you published an article in February of 25 called our young women February of 25 called our young women February of 25 called our young women leaving religion faster than young men leaving religion faster than young men leaving religion faster than young men and the article is just one word no no and the article is just one word no no and the article is just one word no no it's just no graphs no nothing just a it's just no graphs no nothing just a it's just no graphs no nothing just a word no hit publish done to or Monday's word no hit publish done to or Monday's word no hit publish done to or Monday's post is over with thank you moving on post is over with thank you moving on post is over with thank you moving on sometimes you just got to publish sometimes you just got to publish sometimes you just got to publish something right so what's the data here

something right so what's the data here something right so what's the data here so this might be the biggest story of so this might be the biggest story of so this might be the biggest story of the year last year year before that I the year last year year before that I the year last year year before that I mean it's it's like continues to like mean it's it's like continues to like mean it's it's like continues to like roll through like the Guist of what roll through like the Guist of what roll through like the Guist of what people want to talk to me about so it people want to talk to me about so it people want to talk to me about so it used to be there's a gender gap women used to be there's a gender gap women used to be there's a gender gap women were more Rel I than men and what's were more Rel I than men and what's were more Rel I than men and what's funny is you like try to figure out why funny is you like try to figure out why funny is you like try to figure out why no one's really sure why like you can't no one's really sure why like you can't no one's really sure why like you can't point to one specific thing and by the point to one specific thing and by the point to one specific thing and by the way this is not just the United States way this is not just the United States way this is not just the United States this is most countries on Earth women this is most countries on Earth women this is most countries on Earth women are more religious than men it's almost are more religious than men it's almost are more religious than men it's almost like a un as close as you get in social like a un as close as you get in social like a un as close as you get in social science to a universalism this is one of science to a universalism this is one of science to a universalism this is one of them is that women are more religious them is that women are more religious them is that women are more religious than men um and what's interesting is if than men um and what's interesting is if than men um and what's interesting is if you look at like young women and young you look at like young women and young you look at like young women and young men so like 18 to 25 the gender gap is men so like 18 to 25 the gender gap is men so like 18 to 25 the gender gap is probably gone now um it's not reversed I probably gone now um it's not reversed I probably gone now um it's not reversed I I think some people like misunderstand I think some people like misunderstand I think some people like misunderstand my finding when I say oh now men are my finding when I say oh now men are my finding when I say oh now men are more religious than women I am not more religious than women I am not more religious than women I am not saying that okay like what I am saying saying that okay like what I am saying saying that okay like what I am saying is that the gender gap now was gone that is that the gender gap now was gone that is that the gender gap now was gone that used to be two three four points is now used to be two three four points is now used to be two three four points is now no points on things like church no points on things like church no points on things like church attendance there actually some evidence attendance there actually some evidence attendance there actually some evidence that men are attending more than women that men are attending more than women that men are attending more than women right now uh I just did something on right now uh I just did something on right now uh I just did something on prayer I was working on some graphs prayer I was working on some graphs prayer I was working on some graphs today about prayer young men and young today about prayer young men and young today about prayer young men and young women pray at the same rate now which women pray at the same rate now which women pray at the same rate now which wasn't true for men in the 50s and 60s wasn't true for men in the 50s and 60s wasn't true for men in the 50s and 60s and 70s um religious importance so and 70s um religious importance so and 70s um religious importance so there's something happening here with there's something happening here with there's something happening here with the the younger generation where I think the the younger generation where I think the the younger generation where I think what's happening is religion is what's happening is religion is what's happening is religion is continuing to to decline for younger continuing to to decline for younger continuing to to decline for younger women for men it's not declining as as women for men it's not declining as as women for men it's not declining as as rapidly and so that's why that Gap is rapidly and so that's why that Gap is rapidly and so that's why that Gap is closing is because that female line is closing is because that female line is closing is because that female line is moving faster than that male line and moving faster than that male line and moving faster than that male line and that's why they're converging and I that's why they're converging and I that's why they're converging and I think really obviously I know the

think really obviously I know the think really obviously I know the question you're going to ask you br like question you're going to ask you br like question you're going to ask you br like why is this happening and I'm like I why is this happening and I'm like I why is this happening and I'm like I don't know because this is how things go don't know because this is how things go don't know because this is how things go um honestly I don't have a great answer um honestly I don't have a great answer um honestly I don't have a great answer right now but I do think politics is right now but I do think politics is right now but I do think politics is driving some of it I think it has to be driving some of it I think it has to be driving some of it I think it has to be in the United States context especially in the United States context especially in the United States context especially because you know women look around and because you know women look around and because you know women look around and go yeah why don't I have the right to an go yeah why don't I have the right to an go yeah why don't I have the right to an abortion right now and the answer is abortion right now and the answer is abortion right now and the answer is because of the Supreme Court and why because of the Supreme Court and why because of the Supreme Court and why Supreme Court that because they got a Supreme Court that because they got a Supreme Court that because they got a lot of Catholics and evangelicals so you lot of Catholics and evangelicals so you lot of Catholics and evangelicals so you know giving them support so the church know giving them support so the church know giving them support so the church limited my rights you know and lgbtq limited my rights you know and lgbtq limited my rights you know and lgbtq issues why' the church do that because issues why' the church do that because issues why' the church do that because uh oh I mean we can't not talk about the uh oh I mean we can't not talk about the uh oh I mean we can't not talk about the SBC and you know women they they've been SBC and you know women they they've been SBC and you know women they they've been very you know fervent about making sure very you know fervent about making sure very you know fervent about making sure that women don't have access to invital that women don't have access to invital that women don't have access to invital fertilization and they don't have access fertilization and they don't have access fertilization and they don't have access to leadership either and I think for a to leadership either and I think for a to leadership either and I think for a lot of young women I think me too lot of young women I think me too lot of young women I think me too empowered them to say I don't have to empowered them to say I don't have to empowered them to say I don't have to put up with your nonsense you know your put up with your nonsense you know your put up with your nonsense you know your patriarchal stuff I can go my own way patriarchal stuff I can go my own way patriarchal stuff I can go my own way and what you're seeing politically by and what you're seeing politically by and what you're seeing politically by the way is that young women are the way is that young women are the way is that young women are continuing to be more and more liberal continuing to be more and more liberal continuing to be more and more liberal as every year passes and for young men as every year passes and for young men as every year passes and for young men they're actually either staying the same they're actually either staying the same they're actually either staying the same or even might be even turning slightly or even might be even turning slightly or even might be even turning slightly to the right politically that's a real to the right politically that's a real to the right politically that's a real big change in what what we usually think big change in what what we usually think big change in what what we usually think about young people in their politics too about young people in their politics too about young people in their politics too so I think you have to at some level so I think you have to at some level so I think you have to at some level this has to be about politics maybe not this has to be about politics maybe not this has to be about politics maybe not all of it but some of it for sure all of it but some of it for sure all of it but some of it for sure politics certainly came to mind when I politics certainly came to mind when I politics certainly came to mind when I was considering theories one of the was considering theories one of the was considering theories one of the others that I thought about was how you others that I thought about was how you others that I thought about was how you know aimless a lot of young men are in know aimless a lot of young men are in know aimless a lot of young men are in society right now like there isn't a society right now like there isn't a society right now like there isn't a firm place for them um women it's a lot firm place for them um women it's a lot firm place for them um women it's a lot easier for them to find their place easier for them to find their place easier for them to find their place maybe in in academics or the Arts or hey

maybe in in academics or the Arts or hey maybe in in academics or the Arts or hey like we're celebrating you women broadly like we're celebrating you women broadly like we're celebrating you women broadly right now man we're not here to right now man we're not here to right now man we're not here to celebrate you as much could that kind of celebrate you as much could that kind of celebrate you as much could that kind of like lack of clear path and identity like lack of clear path and identity like lack of clear path and identity push them a little bit more towards oh push them a little bit more towards oh push them a little bit more towards oh okay like let's look at these like okay like let's look at these like okay like let's look at these like ancient wisdom you know the the the the ancient wisdom you know the the the the ancient wisdom you know the the the the religions that maybe weren't as popular religions that maybe weren't as popular religions that maybe weren't as popular in the generation before but perhaps in the generation before but perhaps in the generation before but perhaps there's something there yeah I think there's something there yeah I think there's something there yeah I think that this is going to make me sound like that this is going to make me sound like that this is going to make me sound like a big old conservative for a minute but a big old conservative for a minute but a big old conservative for a minute but I think we're we're forgetting that a I think we're we're forgetting that a I think we're we're forgetting that a lot of men are struggling right now in lot of men are struggling right now in lot of men are struggling right now in America and I know we used to have it America and I know we used to have it America and I know we used to have it easy 50 years ago obviously but young easy 50 years ago obviously but young easy 50 years ago obviously but young men today are much less likely to go to men today are much less likely to go to men today are much less likely to go to college than young women most colleges college than young women most colleges college than young women most colleges are at least 6040 if not 60 you know two are at least 6040 if not 60 you know two are at least 6040 if not 60 you know two two to one women to men men in the in two to one women to men men in the in two to one women to men men in the in the problem is in the economy that we're the problem is in the economy that we're the problem is in the economy that we're in right now especially in the west you in right now especially in the west you in right now especially in the west you can't really get a good job unless you can't really get a good job unless you can't really get a good job unless you go to college or go to the trades those go to college or go to the trades those go to college or go to the trades those are really your only Pathway to success are really your only Pathway to success are really your only Pathway to success I think a lot of men are struggling with I think a lot of men are struggling with I think a lot of men are struggling with like what you talked about meaning and like what you talked about meaning and like what you talked about meaning and purpose and hope and yearning and all purpose and hope and yearning and all purpose and hope and yearning and all those like higher things in life and I those like higher things in life and I those like higher things in life and I do think there's a movement among young do think there's a movement among young do think there's a movement among young men like there's a concept called maxing men like there's a concept called maxing men like there's a concept called maxing I don't know if you've seen this before I don't know if you've seen this before I don't know if you've seen this before it's like trying to like make your life it's like trying to like make your life it's like trying to like make your life like better in some way right like it's like better in some way right like it's like better in some way right like it's almost like asceticism which is like almost like asceticism which is like almost like asceticism which is like this old Christian concept of like this old Christian concept of like this old Christian concept of like denying yourself like all worldly denying yourself like all worldly denying yourself like all worldly pleasures to get closer to God there's pleasures to get closer to God there's pleasures to get closer to God there's the guys called pillar saints that used the guys called pillar saints that used the guys called pillar saints that used to sit on top of like columns and just to sit on top of like columns and just to sit on top of like columns and just sit there by themselves as a way to like sit there by themselves as a way to like sit there by themselves as a way to like get closer to God physically and get closer to God physically and get closer to God physically and spiritually I think there's there's like spiritually I think there's there's like spiritually I think there's there's like there's guys getting on airplanes now there's guys getting on airplanes now there's guys getting on airplanes now who won't bring a book or a phone and who won't bring a book or a phone and who won't bring a book or a phone and he'll just stare at the back of the seat he'll just stare at the back of the seat he'll just stare at the back of the seat in front of them for three hours and not in front of them for three hours and not in front of them for three hours and not take food or water as sort of like a take food or water as sort of like a take food or water as sort of like a sense of meditation and I think that's

sense of meditation and I think that's sense of meditation and I think that's like that's something about like they're like that's something about like they're like that's something about like they're seeking purpose and meaning and I think seeking purpose and meaning and I think seeking purpose and meaning and I think for a lot of they go wait wait wait how for a lot of they go wait wait wait how for a lot of they go wait wait wait how do I find purpose and meaning the way my do I find purpose and meaning the way my do I find purpose and meaning the way my grandparents found purpose and meaning grandparents found purpose and meaning grandparents found purpose and meaning which was go to church maybe that's which was go to church maybe that's which was go to church maybe that's something for me so I do think young men something for me so I do think young men something for me so I do think young men are at least more spiritually open to are at least more spiritually open to are at least more spiritually open to the idea right of like spiritual the idea right of like spiritual the idea right of like spiritual discipline trying something hard and discipline trying something hard and discipline trying something hard and maybe religion's part of that whole maybe religion's part of that whole maybe religion's part of that whole thing yeah it makes sense you know I I thing yeah it makes sense you know I I thing yeah it makes sense you know I I mentioned the phrase already on in this mentioned the phrase already on in this mentioned the phrase already on in this conversation you know talking about conversation you know talking about conversation you know talking about postmodernism and then whatever happens postmodernism and then whatever happens postmodernism and then whatever happens after postmodernism which seems to be after postmodernism which seems to be after postmodernism which seems to be the world we're living in right now the world we're living in right now the world we're living in right now there's a one of my fondest follows there's a one of my fondest follows there's a one of my fondest follows online Paul ant Lightner he he he talks online Paul ant Lightner he he he talks online Paul ant Lightner he he he talks about this metamodern era we're living about this metamodern era we're living about this metamodern era we're living in which is kind of this post cynical in which is kind of this post cynical in which is kind of this post cynical age where we tried the thing where like age where we tried the thing where like age where we tried the thing where like you know nothing is true nothing matters you know nothing is true nothing matters you know nothing is true nothing matters let's just live for me and and that'll let's just live for me and and that'll let's just live for me and and that'll be enough when people tried that and be enough when people tried that and be enough when people tried that and they they they came to the end they they they came to the end they they they came to the end themselves and realized oh this actually themselves and realized oh this actually themselves and realized oh this actually wasn't everything it was promised to me wasn't everything it was promised to me wasn't everything it was promised to me this didn't fulfill me in the way that this didn't fulfill me in the way that this didn't fulfill me in the way that um I was looking to be fulfilled and so um I was looking to be fulfilled and so um I was looking to be fulfilled and so now we see kind of maybe a bit of return now we see kind of maybe a bit of return now we see kind of maybe a bit of return to to sincerity return to in some cases to to sincerity return to in some cases to to sincerity return to in some cases religion looking for okay I tried the religion looking for okay I tried the religion looking for okay I tried the thing where nothing matters I actually thing where nothing matters I actually thing where nothing matters I actually think that maybe something does matter think that maybe something does matter think that maybe something does matter where can I find that and and like we've where can I find that and and like we've where can I find that and and like we've said you know maybe it is um looking to said you know maybe it is um looking to said you know maybe it is um looking to to the Faith of Our Fathers or or to the Faith of Our Fathers or or to the Faith of Our Fathers or or grandmothers to to find answers to grandmothers to to find answers to grandmothers to to find answers to Life's deepest questions which we all Life's deepest questions which we all Life's deepest questions which we all have and postmodernism tried to say have and postmodernism tried to say have and postmodernism tried to say there are no answers and none of it there are no answers and none of it there are no answers and none of it matters but I I think a lot of folks who matters but I I think a lot of folks who matters but I I think a lot of folks who engaged with that realized yeah I I engaged with that realized yeah I I engaged with that realized yeah I I think there is something to this thing think there is something to this thing think there is something to this thing we call Life th this might show my

we call Life th this might show my we call Life th this might show my naivity but going through the stage we naivity but going through the stage we naivity but going through the stage we are right now where there's a new are right now where there's a new are right now where there's a new younger generation younger generation younger generation and they are inspiring or at least the and they are inspiring or at least the and they are inspiring or at least the Catalyst or whatever it might be but Catalyst or whatever it might be but Catalyst or whatever it might be but we're seeing this like pendulum shift in we're seeing this like pendulum shift in we're seeing this like pendulum shift in so many different areas and in the small so many different areas and in the small so many different areas and in the small areas things like design right so like areas things like design right so like areas things like design right so like wait this used to be ugly and now we're wait this used to be ugly and now we're wait this used to be ugly and now we're celebrating it and I'm finding myself celebrating it and I'm finding myself celebrating it and I'm finding myself like going along with those things like like going along with those things like like going along with those things like imagining myself in my early 20s looking imagining myself in my early 20s looking imagining myself in my early 20s looking at a home and being like Oh let's do at a home and being like Oh let's do at a home and being like Oh let's do something different in every single room something different in every single room something different in every single room and let's like fill it with lots of like and let's like fill it with lots of like and let's like fill it with lots of like trinkets or whatever it might be like trinkets or whatever it might be like trinkets or whatever it might be like that would have been so toine popular does that about and toine popular does that about and impressionable I am and then there are impressionable I am and then there are impressionable I am and then there are kind of like the bigger changes you kind of like the bigger changes you kind of like the bigger changes you talked about like cynicism and how huge talked about like cynicism and how huge talked about like cynicism and how huge of a part of like our generation's of a part of like our generation's of a part of like our generation's identity that was like trying was almost identity that was like trying was almost identity that was like trying was almost like considered like lame like before like considered like lame like before like considered like lame like before cringe was a word our Our Generation was cringe was a word our Our Generation was cringe was a word our Our Generation was very good at just being like you know very good at just being like you know very good at just being like you know well you know just and then you Timothy well you know just and then you Timothy well you know just and then you Timothy shalam on the the road to the Oscars has shalam on the the road to the Oscars has shalam on the the road to the Oscars has this speech at I think it was the sags this speech at I think it was the sags this speech at I think it was the sags yeah he's like I want to be great I want yeah he's like I want to be great I want yeah he's like I want to be great I want to be great I care I know this isn't a to be great I care I know this isn't a to be great I care I know this isn't a thing that people talk about but like I thing that people talk about but like I thing that people talk about but like I and everyone was like wow we part out and everyone was like wow we part out and everyone was like wow we part out loud heard a person talk like that in a loud heard a person talk like that in a loud heard a person talk like that in a long time and the commentary on it was long time and the commentary on it was long time and the commentary on it was like Wow sincerity haven't felt that like Wow sincerity haven't felt that like Wow sincerity haven't felt that very often I guess what I'm trying to very often I guess what I'm trying to very often I guess what I'm trying to say is what's real at say is what's real at say is what's real at all it's it's fascinating seeing like

all it's it's fascinating seeing like all it's it's fascinating seeing like hey we've neglected this this like if hey we've neglected this this like if hey we've neglected this this like if truth is like almost like this this uh truth is like almost like this this uh truth is like almost like this this uh this prism so we've been focusing on this prism so we've been focusing on this prism so we've been focusing on this one part of the prism and it's not this one part of the prism and it's not this one part of the prism and it's not that that wasn't true but we've that that wasn't true but we've that that wasn't true but we've neglected these other parts of the light neglected these other parts of the light neglected these other parts of the light that's shining through the prism and that's shining through the prism and that's shining through the prism and it's fascinating to see that because I it's fascinating to see that because I it's fascinating to see that because I haven't lived through it yet and it's haven't lived through it yet and it's haven't lived through it yet and it's really making me questioned a lot of really making me questioned a lot of really making me questioned a lot of things but that's the we call the things but that's the we call the things but that's the we call the Zeitgeist right the spirit of the age Zeitgeist right the spirit of the age Zeitgeist right the spirit of the age and the problem for social science is and the problem for social science is and the problem for social science is you can't measure it like we all tried you can't measure it like we all tried you can't measure it like we all tried but it's just like The Vibes The Vibes but it's just like The Vibes The Vibes but it's just like The Vibes The Vibes have shifted I don't really understand have shifted I don't really understand have shifted I don't really understand why the Vibes shift but I mean but think why the Vibes shift but I mean but think why the Vibes shift but I mean but think about like I live in a state that about like I live in a state that about like I live in a state that legalized Sports gambling and legalized legalized Sports gambling and legalized legalized Sports gambling and legalized marijuana like in quick succession with marijuana like in quick succession with marijuana like in quick succession with each other and when that was all going each other and when that was all going each other and when that was all going down I was like yeah probably fine you down I was like yeah probably fine you down I was like yeah probably fine you know like we probably need to go that know like we probably need to go that know like we probably need to go that direction I'm just kind of a Libertarian direction I'm just kind of a Libertarian direction I'm just kind of a Libertarian on a lot of social issues and now I look on a lot of social issues and now I look on a lot of social issues and now I look at that Stu and go man that might have at that Stu and go man that might have at that Stu and go man that might have been a mistake like those things are been a mistake like those things are been a mistake like those things are probably not that good for most people probably not that good for most people probably not that good for most people and people who are abusing them probably and people who are abusing them probably and people who are abusing them probably shouldn't have access to those things shouldn't have access to those things shouldn't have access to those things like we're making it too easy to fall like we're making it too easy to fall like we're making it too easy to fall off the Narrow Path and it's really off the Narrow Path and it's really off the Narrow Path and it's really hurting people that I think need as much hurting people that I think need as much hurting people that I think need as much help as possible you know people come on help as possible you know people come on help as possible you know people come on the fringes of society and those are the the fringes of society and those are the the fringes of society and those are the bottom end of the socioeconomic Spectrum bottom end of the socioeconomic Spectrum bottom end of the socioeconomic Spectrum are the one struggling at that like 5% are the one struggling at that like 5% are the one struggling at that like 5% of people make money on Sports gambling of people make money on Sports gambling of people make money on Sports gambling on a consistent basis and if you talk to on a consistent basis and if you talk to on a consistent basis and if you talk to them they all think they're going to them they all think they're going to them they all think they're going to make money next year you know like and make money next year you know like and make money next year you know like and that's a real problem there's actually that's a real problem there's actually that's a real problem there's actually been data that says that like after a been data that says that like after a been data that says that like after a really tough loss like a huge upset loss really tough loss like a huge upset loss really tough loss like a huge upset loss domestic violence goes up U because domestic violence goes up U because domestic violence goes up U because because people lose money and and are because people lose money and and are because people lose money and and are angry and take it out on their spouse or angry and take it out on their spouse or angry and take it out on their spouse or their partner like that is an objective their partner like that is an objective their partner like that is an objective bad like let's be clear about that

bad like let's be clear about that bad like let's be clear about that domestic violence is bad and we should domestic violence is bad and we should domestic violence is bad and we should and I think that's the problem is the and I think that's the problem is the and I think that's the problem is the pendulum swings right it's like okay pendulum swings right it's like okay pendulum swings right it's like okay let's go more towards like a Libertarian let's go more towards like a Libertarian let's go more towards like a Libertarian mindset let people kind of Live and Let mindset let people kind of Live and Let mindset let people kind of Live and Let Live and then you get to the point where Live and then you get to the point where Live and then you get to the point where like oh wait maybe we should go the like oh wait maybe we should go the like oh wait maybe we should go the other direction and I do think like the other direction and I do think like the other direction and I do think like the pendulum hit all the way to that one pendulum hit all the way to that one pendulum hit all the way to that one side and now it's swinging back the side and now it's swinging back the side and now it's swinging back the other I mean uh the election of Donald other I mean uh the election of Donald other I mean uh the election of Donald Trump is kind of evidence of that I Trump is kind of evidence of that I Trump is kind of evidence of that I think for a lot of people like yeah we think for a lot of people like yeah we think for a lot of people like yeah we want we want less woke and less Dei and want we want less woke and less Dei and want we want less woke and less Dei and less all that stuff less he she uh you less all that stuff less he she uh you less all that stuff less he she uh you know pronoun stuff and let's go back to know pronoun stuff and let's go back to know pronoun stuff and let's go back to the way things used to be not saying the way things used to be not saying the way things used to be not saying it's right or wrong I'm just saying it's right or wrong I'm just saying it's right or wrong I'm just saying that's where we are you know kind of that's where we are you know kind of that's where we are you know kind of emotionally spiritually Vibe shift all emotionally spiritually Vibe shift all emotionally spiritually Vibe shift all those things yeah that that comment on those things yeah that that comment on those things yeah that that comment on the legalization of marijuana is the legalization of marijuana is the legalization of marijuana is interesting like in Canada I think we're interesting like in Canada I think we're interesting like in Canada I think we're one of two countries that uh made it one of two countries that uh made it one of two countries that uh made it legal federally and I remember that was legal federally and I remember that was legal federally and I remember that was widely celebrated and I I have never widely celebrated and I I have never widely celebrated and I I have never taken a puff or a edible in my life I've taken a puff or a edible in my life I've taken a puff or a edible in my life I've never experienced that but I remember never experienced that but I remember never experienced that but I remember being like yeah cool I don't know why being like yeah cool I don't know why being like yeah cool I don't know why this is illegal like let's make it legal this is illegal like let's make it legal this is illegal like let's make it legal and nowadays like you just smell it and nowadays like you just smell it and nowadays like you just smell it everywhere like you walk you know we everywhere like you walk you know we everywhere like you walk you know we were at an event on Saturday night at were at an event on Saturday night at were at an event on Saturday night at the stadium you walk into the stadium the stadium you walk into the stadium the stadium you walk into the stadium it's like oh my gosh you know you smell it's like oh my gosh you know you smell it's like oh my gosh you know you smell it in your backyard because the the it in your backyard because the the it in your backyard because the the neighbor and it's not like it didn't neighbor and it's not like it didn't neighbor and it's not like it didn't exist before but there's this like exist before but there's this like exist before but there's this like permissive element that brought it into permissive element that brought it into permissive element that brought it into like the Forefront of everyday like the Forefront of everyday like the Forefront of everyday experience in ways that didn't exist experience in ways that didn't exist experience in ways that didn't exist prior and it's fascinating seeing the prior and it's fascinating seeing the prior and it's fascinating seeing the commentary shift where everyone was like commentary shift where everyone was like commentary shift where everyone was like yeah like it seemed like people like yeah like it seemed like people like yeah like it seemed like people like going to jail for this was bad and I going to jail for this was bad and I going to jail for this was bad and I agreed with that but like I didn't agreed with that but like I didn't agreed with that but like I didn't really want it everywhere like you know really want it everywhere like you know really want it everywhere like you know and I guess we can only see those and I guess we can only see those and I guess we can only see those consequences in hindsight final Trend I consequences in hindsight final Trend I consequences in hindsight final Trend I wanted to hit on it's I guess suppose

wanted to hit on it's I guess suppose wanted to hit on it's I guess suppose you know it has some similarities to the you know it has some similarities to the you know it has some similarities to the previous Trends but it's the strongest previous Trends but it's the strongest previous Trends but it's the strongest force in American religion this was an force in American religion this was an force in American religion this was an article from early this year that you article from early this year that you article from early this year that you published called non- denominationalism published called non- denominationalism published called non- denominationalism is the strongest force in American is the strongest force in American is the strongest force in American religion quote in the early' 70s just 2% religion quote in the early' 70s just 2% religion quote in the early' 70s just 2% of Protestants were non-denominational of Protestants were non-denominational of Protestants were non-denominational today 35% nearly 15% of All American today 35% nearly 15% of All American today 35% nearly 15% of All American adults identify as non- denominational adults identify as non- denominational adults identify as non- denominational perhaps an interesting point the church perhaps an interesting point the church perhaps an interesting point the church plant that I served at the church at plant that I served at the church at plant that I served at the church at South Edmonton was founded by two South Edmonton was founded by two South Edmonton was founded by two pastors from the same Pentecostal AOG pastors from the same Pentecostal AOG pastors from the same Pentecostal AOG Bible College that I went to but we were Bible College that I went to but we were Bible College that I went to but we were not technically AOG or P we were closer not technically AOG or P we were closer not technically AOG or P we were closer to non denominational why I still don't to non denominational why I still don't to non denominational why I still don't know why what is it about non- know why what is it about non- know why what is it about non- denominationalism is that still maybe denominationalism is that still maybe denominationalism is that still maybe like the pendulum shift that we're in like the pendulum shift that we're in like the pendulum shift that we're in like hey denomination's bad non- like hey denomination's bad non- like hey denomination's bad non- denomination's good and if so how far denomination's good and if so how far denomination's good and if so how far away are we from it all coming around away are we from it all coming around away are we from it all coming around again I I really think the non- denom again I I really think the non- denom again I I really think the non- denom thing like this the N the rise of the thing like this the N the rise of the thing like this the N the rise of the nuns obviously is like number one story nuns obviously is like number one story nuns obviously is like number one story in the last you know maybe 10 15 years in the last you know maybe 10 15 years in the last you know maybe 10 15 years but the rise of the nuns might be number but the rise of the nuns might be number but the rise of the nuns might be number two story story right cuz I just think two story story right cuz I just think two story story right cuz I just think it's that important it just shows you it's that important it just shows you it's that important it just shows you like that especially in the west like we like that especially in the west like we like that especially in the west like we become a very bottom up culture you know become a very bottom up culture you know become a very bottom up culture you know we for for most of Western history it's we for for most of Western history it's we for for most of Western history it's been very top down very hierarchical been very top down very hierarchical been very top down very hierarchical right like the church told you who your right like the church told you who your right like the church told you who your pastor was or the bishop was or the pope pastor was or the bishop was or the pope pastor was or the bishop was or the pope was and and they told you what to was and and they told you what to was and and they told you what to believe in Doctrine and then here comes believe in Doctrine and then here comes believe in Doctrine and then here comes the Baptist going no it's all local the Baptist going no it's all local the Baptist going no it's all local church autonomy homie but they still church autonomy homie but they still church autonomy homie but they still have a denomination though like let's be have a denomination though like let's be have a denomination though like let's be clear the SBC says we're not a clear the SBC says we're not a clear the SBC says we're not a denomination they are definitely a denomination they are definitely a denomination they are definitely a denomination like I know it's like it's

denomination like I know it's like it's denomination like I know it's like it's all semantics in my world like just call all semantics in my world like just call all semantics in my world like just call yourself what you are non- denoms are yourself what you are non- denoms are yourself what you are non- denoms are truly not a denomination because there truly not a denomination because there truly not a denomination because there is no adult out there that will come in is no adult out there that will come in is no adult out there that will come in and help you when things go sideways and help you when things go sideways and help you when things go sideways like there is no you know Illinois like there is no you know Illinois like there is no you know Illinois non-denominational Association president non-denominational Association president non-denominational Association president that doesn't exist and I think it's it's that doesn't exist and I think it's it's that doesn't exist and I think it's it's part of this larger move away from part of this larger move away from part of this larger move away from institutions right away from structure institutions right away from structure institutions right away from structure and it's very American I think it's very and it's very American I think it's very and it's very American I think it's very like I don't need no Bible College I like I don't need no Bible College I like I don't need no Bible College I don't need no Seminary I just need God's don't need no Seminary I just need God's don't need no Seminary I just need God's calling on my life and if I have God's calling on my life and if I have God's calling on my life and if I have God's calling I don't care if I'm an insurance calling I don't care if I'm an insurance calling I don't care if I'm an insurance agent or a farmer or a priest or agent or a farmer or a priest or agent or a farmer or a priest or whatever my my church is going to grow whatever my my church is going to grow whatever my my church is going to grow and I think that ethos is what what and I think that ethos is what what and I think that ethos is what what raised Donald Trump to the presidency by raised Donald Trump to the presidency by raised Donald Trump to the presidency by the way I don't need like the right the way I don't need like the right the way I don't need like the right qualifications to be president and his qualifications to be president and his qualifications to be president and his own party did not want him to run in own party did not want him to run in own party did not want him to run in 2015 and tried to stop him from running 2015 and tried to stop him from running 2015 and tried to stop him from running in 2015 and look he that that actually in 2015 and look he that that actually in 2015 and look he that that actually became part of his narrative right which became part of his narrative right which became part of his narrative right which is like they don't want me here but you is like they don't want me here but you is like they don't want me here but you want me here those non- denoms are kind want me here those non- denoms are kind want me here those non- denoms are kind of like Yeah The Establishment The of like Yeah The Establishment The of like Yeah The Establishment The Gatekeepers are keeping us out but look Gatekeepers are keeping us out but look Gatekeepers are keeping us out but look look what God's doing in our midst look what God's doing in our midst look what God's doing in our midst and people like that they like that like and people like that they like that like and people like that they like that like homegrown like you know Horatio aler homegrown like you know Horatio aler homegrown like you know Horatio aler American story of rags to riches and I American story of rags to riches and I American story of rags to riches and I think that's what a lot of these think that's what a lot of these think that's what a lot of these churches are is like we started from six churches are is like we started from six churches are is like we started from six couples in a basement to now 10,000 couples in a basement to now 10,000 couples in a basement to now 10,000 people on a Sunday because of God's people on a Sunday because of God's people on a Sunday because of God's grace not because of anyone told us to grace not because of anyone told us to grace not because of anyone told us to do it because we were called by God to do it because we were called by God to do it because we were called by God to do it graphs about religion.com is the do it graphs about religion.com is the do it graphs about religion.com is the substack that we are subscribed to we substack that we are subscribed to we substack that we are subscribed to we encourage you to check it out as well encourage you to check it out as well encourage you to check it out as well new content twice a week Ryan Monday new content twice a week Ryan Monday new content twice a week Ryan Monday Mondays and Thursdays let's go yep

Mondays and Thursdays let's go yep Mondays and Thursdays let's go yep sometimes the articles are just one word sometimes the articles are just one word sometimes the articles are just one word cuz publishing twice per week is is cuz publishing twice per week is is cuz publishing twice per week is is challenging anything else that you've challenging anything else that you've challenging anything else that you've got working on that you wanted to plug got working on that you wanted to plug got working on that you wanted to plug Ryan I've got a new book from Oxford Ryan I've got a new book from Oxford Ryan I've got a new book from Oxford University press how about that Brady University press how about that Brady University press how about that Brady you like that o University press I do I you like that o University press I do I you like that o University press I do I like that a lot you're a scholar I am a like that a lot you're a scholar I am a like that a lot you're a scholar I am a scholar exactly uh it's called the scholar exactly uh it's called the scholar exactly uh it's called the American religious landscape facts American religious landscape facts American religious landscape facts Trends in the future actually I'm Trends in the future actually I'm Trends in the future actually I'm getting my review like I'm getting my getting my review like I'm getting my getting my review like I'm getting my copies this week so it's going to be on copies this week so it's going to be on copies this week so it's going to be on shelves like next week um it's like 300 shelves like next week um it's like 300 shelves like next week um it's like 300 pages of like like 175 graphs I think pages of like like 175 graphs I think pages of like like 175 graphs I think something stupid like that but it's just something stupid like that but it's just something stupid like that but it's just a handbook of what religion looks like a handbook of what religion looks like a handbook of what religion looks like in the United States chapter on in the United States chapter on in the United States chapter on evangelicals chapter on Muslims chapter evangelicals chapter on Muslims chapter evangelicals chapter on Muslims chapter on Hindus chapter on Buddhist chapter on on Hindus chapter on Buddhist chapter on on Hindus chapter on Buddhist chapter on atheist agnostics and if you just want atheist agnostics and if you just want atheist agnostics and if you just want to get like a non-nonsense no theorizing to get like a non-nonsense no theorizing to get like a non-nonsense no theorizing easily understandable digestible way easily understandable digestible way easily understandable digestible way just to understand what in the world is just to understand what in the world is just to understand what in the world is happening in American religion this is happening in American religion this is happening in American religion this is the book for you I wrote it because no the book for you I wrote it because no the book for you I wrote it because no book like that existed and I really book like that existed and I really book like that existed and I really wanted to use it in some of my classes wanted to use it in some of my classes wanted to use it in some of my classes and I couldn't so I had to create the and I couldn't so I had to create the and I couldn't so I had to create the material and you all get to benefit from material and you all get to benefit from material and you all get to benefit from it I guess not your first book right it I guess not your first book right it I guess not your first book right this is is number one two 3 four this is this is is number one two 3 four this is this is is number one two 3 four this is number five I've got a book with brazo number five I've got a book with brazo number five I've got a book with brazo coming out next year number six I'm coming out next year number six I'm coming out next year number six I'm writing a book about the nuns uh with we writing a book about the nuns uh with we writing a book about the nuns uh with we did a 12,000 person sample of did a 12,000 person sample of did a 12,000 person sample of non-religious people with a Templeton non-religious people with a Templeton non-religious people with a Templeton Grant we have a new typology of Grant we have a new typology of Grant we have a new typology of non-religion coming out um which you're non-religion coming out um which you're non-religion coming out um which you're really excited about that's coming out really excited about that's coming out really excited about that's coming out next year and then I have a two-book next year and then I have a two-book next year and then I have a two-book deal with zerin to follow up on the deal with zerin to follow up on the deal with zerin to follow up on the great D churching those books will come great D churching those books will come great D churching those books will come out in 2027 and 2029 wow you got a lot out in 2027 and 2029 wow you got a lot out in 2027 and 2029 wow you got a lot of work to do there Ryan yeah seriously of work to do there Ryan yeah seriously of work to do there Ryan yeah seriously and then I'm going to lay on the ground and then I'm going to lay on the ground and then I'm going to lay on the ground and stare at the ceiling for the rest of

and stare at the ceiling for the rest of and stare at the ceiling for the rest of my life only five years away right so my life only five years away right so my life only five years away right so just right around the corter we're just right around the corter we're just right around the corter we're always grateful when you uh make time always grateful when you uh make time always grateful when you uh make time for us Ryan we'll check in with you in a for us Ryan we'll check in with you in a for us Ryan we'll check in with you in a few months again I'm sure thanks so much few months again I'm sure thanks so much few months again I'm sure thanks so much and thank you for your time attention and thank you for your time attention and thank you for your time attention and Trust we'll talk to you next week as and Trust we'll talk to you next week as and Trust we'll talk to you next week as well I have 16 free Subs on substack so well I have 16 free Subs on substack so well I have 16 free Subs on substack so kind of a big deal over here when was kind of a big deal over here when was kind of a big deal over here when was the last time you published on your the last time you published on your the last time you published on your substack oh all the time what yeah no substack oh all the time what yeah no substack oh all the time what yeah no what kind of a friend am I you're not what kind of a friend am I you're not what kind of a friend am I you're not one of my Subs