1 in 3 Christians Trust AI as Much as Their Pastor (Now What?)

One in three of practicing American One in three of practicing American Christians say that spiritual advice Christians say that spiritual advice Christians say that spiritual advice from artificial intelligence is as from artificial intelligence is as from artificial intelligence is as trustworthy as spiritual advice from a trustworthy as spiritual advice from a trustworthy as spiritual advice from a pastor. Among Gen Z and millennials, pastor. Among Gen Z and millennials, pastor. Among Gen Z and millennials, it's closer to 40%. Four in 10 it's closer to 40%. Four in 10 it's closer to 40%. Four in 10 Christians say that AI has already Christians say that AI has already Christians say that AI has already helped them with prayer, Bible study, helped them with prayer, Bible study, helped them with prayer, Bible study, spiritual growth. So AI is not just spiritual growth. So AI is not just spiritual growth. So AI is not just coming for the church. AI is in the coming for the church. AI is in the coming for the church. AI is in the church. So today, we're not having the church. So today, we're not having the church. So today, we're not having the question of, "Hey, you're a pastor. question of, "Hey, you're a pastor. question of, "Hey, you're a pastor. Should you be using AI in your Should you be using AI in your Should you be using AI in your ministry?" Uh because the much bigger ministry?" Uh because the much bigger ministry?" Uh because the much bigger question and concern at hand is the fact question and concern at hand is the fact question and concern at hand is the fact that spiritual formation in your pews is that spiritual formation in your pews is that spiritual formation in your pews is being driven by these AI tools. How do being driven by these AI tools. How do being driven by these AI tools. How do we respond? we respond? we respond? >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sher, your host. I'm jo as always Brady Sher, your host. I'm jo as always Brady Sher, your host. I'm jo as always by my co-host. We call him the by my co-host. We call him the by my co-host. We call him the trustworthy teacher. It's Alexander trustworthy teacher. It's Alexander trustworthy teacher. It's Alexander Miss. Miss. Miss. >> Hello. Hello. Speaking of trustworthy, >> Hello. Hello. Speaking of trustworthy, >> Hello. Hello. Speaking of trustworthy, Alex used to be, but not anymore. Alex used to be, but not anymore. Alex used to be, but not anymore. According to Bara's 2026 State of the According to Bara's 2026 State of the According to Bara's 2026 State of the Church findings, we joke because it's Church findings, we joke because it's Church findings, we joke because it's hurting us deep on the inside.

hurting us deep on the inside. hurting us deep on the inside. >> Right. If we don't laugh, we'll cry. >> Right. If we don't laugh, we'll cry. >> Right. If we don't laugh, we'll cry. >> Precisely. So, what were the findings or >> Precisely. So, what were the findings or >> Precisely. So, what were the findings or at least the findings that we are at least the findings that we are at least the findings that we are spotlighting in this episode? 30% of US spotlighting in this episode? 30% of US spotlighting in this episode? 30% of US adults somewhat or strongly agree that adults somewhat or strongly agree that adults somewhat or strongly agree that spiritual advice from AI is as spiritual advice from AI is as spiritual advice from AI is as trustworthy as advice from a pastor. trustworthy as advice from a pastor. trustworthy as advice from a pastor. About one in three. About one in three. About one in three. >> Yeah. AI >> Yeah. AI >> Yeah. AI pastor, same thing. And it gets worse pastor, same thing. And it gets worse pastor, same thing. And it gets worse the younger you are. So among Gen Z, 39% the younger you are. So among Gen Z, 39% the younger you are. So among Gen Z, 39% agree. Among millennials, 40% agree. agree. Among millennials, 40% agree. agree. Among millennials, 40% agree. Strangely, practicing Christians are Strangely, practicing Christians are Strangely, practicing Christians are more likely to agree with this statement more likely to agree with this statement more likely to agree with this statement that AI is just as trustworthy as a that AI is just as trustworthy as a that AI is just as trustworthy as a pastor than non-practicing Christians pastor than non-practicing Christians pastor than non-practicing Christians and non-Christians altogether, and non-Christians altogether, and non-Christians altogether, which is curious. I wonder about that. I which is curious. I wonder about that. I which is curious. I wonder about that. I was thinking about that statistic in was thinking about that statistic in was thinking about that statistic in particular and trying to map it onto a particular and trying to map it onto a particular and trying to map it onto a different experience. So, I my my idea different experience. So, I my my idea different experience. So, I my my idea was like healthcare, right? It's like, was like healthcare, right? It's like, was like healthcare, right? It's like, okay, okay, okay, >> I don't I don't work in healthcare. My >> I don't I don't work in healthcare. My >> I don't I don't work in healthcare. My wife does, but set that aside. I don't wife does, but set that aside. I don't wife does, but set that aside. I don't work in healthcare. I don't know work in healthcare. I don't know work in healthcare. I don't know anything about anything. My view from anything about anything. My view from anything about anything. My view from that position is that oh a practitioner that position is that oh a practitioner that position is that oh a practitioner is much is more trustworthy than AI to is much is more trustworthy than AI to is much is more trustworthy than AI to me. But maybe a med student wouldn't me. But maybe a med student wouldn't me. But maybe a med student wouldn't have that perspective. Maybe they just have that perspective. Maybe they just have that perspective. Maybe they just have a different sense of whatever. They have a different sense of whatever. They have a different sense of whatever. They just have a different lived experience just have a different lived experience just have a different lived experience in that world that they would have in that world that they would have in that world that they would have higher trust in the in the language higher trust in the in the language higher trust in the in the language models tools um than I would as just models tools um than I would as just models tools um than I would as just someone from the outside who sees uh a someone from the outside who sees uh a someone from the outside who sees uh a skilled practitioner and assumes that skilled practitioner and assumes that skilled practitioner and assumes that they are worthy of my trust.

they are worthy of my trust. they are worthy of my trust. >> I think that's compelling. Very good. >> I think that's compelling. Very good. >> I think that's compelling. Very good. Well, I had to put myself in that Well, I had to put myself in that Well, I had to put myself in that position because this position because this position because this data is data is data is like we joked earlier about laughing and like we joked earlier about laughing and like we joked earlier about laughing and crying, but like like for real like this crying, but like like for real like this crying, but like like for real like this this data is it like it speaks to this data is it like it speaks to this data is it like it speaks to >> my vocation and in a lot of senses like >> my vocation and in a lot of senses like >> my vocation and in a lot of senses like my identity as a person and it causes me my identity as a person and it causes me my identity as a person and it causes me to consider how people view me when I to consider how people view me when I to consider how people view me when I proclaim the good news, which is my proclaim the good news, which is my proclaim the good news, which is my favorite thing in the world to do. It's favorite thing in the world to do. It's favorite thing in the world to do. It's just given me a little bit more data, just given me a little bit more data, just given me a little bit more data, ironically, but like a little bit more ironically, but like a little bit more ironically, but like a little bit more context for how people receive my the context for how people receive my the context for how people receive my the fruit of my vocation. fruit of my vocation. fruit of my vocation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, I I spent quite a lot of >> Um, so yeah, I I spent quite a lot of >> Um, so yeah, I I spent quite a lot of time thinking about maybe the the time thinking about maybe the the time thinking about maybe the the ramifications of of what this data from ramifications of of what this data from ramifications of of what this data from Bara is suggesting, Bara is suggesting, Bara is suggesting, >> right? And and millennials >> right? And and millennials >> right? And and millennials are us. I'm 35. Like older millennials are us. I'm 35. Like older millennials are us. I'm 35. Like older millennials are 40. Yeah. So, we're approaching like are 40. Yeah. So, we're approaching like are 40. Yeah. So, we're approaching like 50% of people 40 and under being like, 50% of people 40 and under being like, 50% of people 40 and under being like, "Yeah, like it's two and five. Yeah, AI "Yeah, like it's two and five. Yeah, AI "Yeah, like it's two and five. Yeah, AI just as trustworthy as a pastor." Like, just as trustworthy as a pastor." Like, just as trustworthy as a pastor." Like, this is not something that is on the this is not something that is on the this is not something that is on the horizon. So much of the content we cover horizon. So much of the content we cover horizon. So much of the content we cover on these shows are, "Hey, here's what's on these shows are, "Hey, here's what's on these shows are, "Hey, here's what's coming. This is here right now." And it coming. This is here right now." And it coming. This is here right now." And it does not seem that long ago when the Sam does not seem that long ago when the Sam does not seem that long ago when the Sam Alman tweet went out and said, "Hey, Alman tweet went out and said, "Hey, Alman tweet went out and said, "Hey, we've launched a new tool. It's called we've launched a new tool. It's called we've launched a new tool. It's called Chat GPT." And now here we are 24 months Chat GPT." And now here we are 24 months Chat GPT." And now here we are 24 months later. Like how many how many months ago later. Like how many how many months ago later. Like how many how many months ago was that? I don't think it was that was that? I don't think it was that was that? I don't think it was that many.

many. many. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Diving deeper into the data. 33% roughly >> Diving deeper into the data. 33% roughly >> Diving deeper into the data. 33% roughly of practicing Christians want guidance of practicing Christians want guidance of practicing Christians want guidance from their pastor on navigating from their pastor on navigating from their pastor on navigating technology. So this is just more coming technology. So this is just more coming technology. So this is just more coming from Barnes 2026 state of the church. from Barnes 2026 state of the church. from Barnes 2026 state of the church. Four in 10 Christians do say they admit Four in 10 Christians do say they admit Four in 10 Christians do say they admit AI has helped them with prayer, Bible AI has helped them with prayer, Bible AI has helped them with prayer, Bible study, spiritual growth. Interestingly, study, spiritual growth. Interestingly, study, spiritual growth. Interestingly, while about a third of practicing while about a third of practicing while about a third of practicing Christians want guidance from their Christians want guidance from their Christians want guidance from their pastor on navigating tech in this world pastor on navigating tech in this world pastor on navigating tech in this world of media and how everything is changing, of media and how everything is changing, of media and how everything is changing, only 12% of pastors feel comfortable only 12% of pastors feel comfortable only 12% of pastors feel comfortable teaching on it. So, there's a bit of a teaching on it. So, there's a bit of a teaching on it. So, there's a bit of a gap there. And we're going to dive a gap there. And we're going to dive a gap there. And we're going to dive a little bit deeper into that gap and how little bit deeper into that gap and how little bit deeper into that gap and how you as a pastor can step into that gap you as a pastor can step into that gap you as a pastor can step into that gap even if you are feeling even if you are feeling even if you are feeling >> not equipped. We've got stuff coming >> not equipped. We've got stuff coming >> not equipped. We've got stuff coming later on that. later on that. later on that. >> So, let's let's argue this from two >> So, let's let's argue this from two >> So, let's let's argue this from two sides. Why is this concerning? and maybe sides. Why is this concerning? and maybe sides. Why is this concerning? and maybe why is it not? Let's start with the why is it not? Let's start with the why is it not? Let's start with the easier case to make. easier case to make. easier case to make. AI can, does, and will give AI can, does, and will give AI can, does, and will give theologically inconsistent answers theologically inconsistent answers theologically inconsistent answers depending on how the question is framed.

depending on how the question is framed. depending on how the question is framed. That's a problem. That's a problem. That's a problem. >> Yeah, AI has no pastoral relationship. >> Yeah, AI has no pastoral relationship. >> Yeah, AI has no pastoral relationship. Meaning, it can give you information, Meaning, it can give you information, Meaning, it can give you information, but it cannot visit you in the hospital. but it cannot visit you in the hospital. but it cannot visit you in the hospital. It cannot lay hands on you. It cannot It cannot lay hands on you. It cannot It cannot lay hands on you. It cannot hold you accountable. It just cannot do hold you accountable. It just cannot do hold you accountable. It just cannot do those things. those things. those things. >> It doesn't have discernment. >> It doesn't have discernment. >> It doesn't have discernment. >> Right? And so if it cannot do those >> Right? And so if it cannot do those >> Right? And so if it cannot do those things and yet it's stepping into the things and yet it's stepping into the things and yet it's stepping into the role in a lot of ways of the type of role in a lot of ways of the type of role in a lot of ways of the type of person that can do those things now we person that can do those things now we person that can do those things now we have inongruency and downstream of that have inongruency and downstream of that have inongruency and downstream of that >> is likely bad things >> is likely bad things >> is likely bad things >> another part of this equation and if >> another part of this equation and if >> another part of this equation and if you've chatted with these models long you've chatted with these models long you've chatted with these models long enough you have seen this firsthand AI enough you have seen this firsthand AI enough you have seen this firsthand AI is eager to please and depending on how is eager to please and depending on how is eager to please and depending on how you present a question you can get you present a question you can get you present a question you can get different answers especially with things different answers especially with things different answers especially with things that are not binary we've seen like the that are not binary we've seen like the that are not binary we've seen like the memes of like it saying 5 + 5 equals memes of like it saying 5 + 5 equals memes of like it saying 5 + 5 equals like 11 and like arguing for that. But like 11 and like arguing for that. But like 11 and like arguing for that. But when things are a little bit more gray, when things are a little bit more gray, when things are a little bit more gray, it's even more so. I I have this all the it's even more so. I I have this all the it's even more so. I I have this all the time. We, you know, we for for example, time. We, you know, we for for example, time. We, you know, we for for example, we have created using AI in our in our we have created using AI in our in our we have created using AI in our in our company a game. Okay. We've created this company a game. Okay. We've created this company a game. Okay. We've created this game. It's a makebelieve game.

game. It's a makebelieve game. game. It's a makebelieve game. >> It's a real game. >> It's a real game. >> It's a real game. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But we invented it. >> But we invented it. >> But we invented it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And part of this game are these >> And part of this game are these >> And part of this game are these power-ups. So like you can optionally power-ups. So like you can optionally power-ups. So like you can optionally with your tag team partner decide to with your tag team partner decide to with your tag team partner decide to enable deploy if you will one of these enable deploy if you will one of these enable deploy if you will one of these powerups and that gives you like an powerups and that gives you like an powerups and that gives you like an extra advantage in a given week. And we extra advantage in a given week. And we extra advantage in a given week. And we found out that one of the power-ups this found out that one of the power-ups this found out that one of the power-ups this week was like oh that didn't really make week was like oh that didn't really make week was like oh that didn't really make sense for this game. So then we asked sense for this game. So then we asked sense for this game. So then we asked the AI hey the AI hey the AI hey what would be the argument for this? what would be the argument for this? what would be the argument for this? Well obviously it would be great because Well obviously it would be great because Well obviously it would be great because of this this and this. And then I said, of this this and this. And then I said, of this this and this. And then I said, "Right, but like what about this?" "Right, but like what about this?" "Right, but like what about this?" You're like, "That's a great point. It's You're like, "That's a great point. It's You're like, "That's a great point. It's actually the opposite of what I just actually the opposite of what I just actually the opposite of what I just said." You're like, "Okay." Like, "So, said." You're like, "Okay." Like, "So, said." You're like, "Okay." Like, "So, did you not consider that or are you did you not consider that or are you did you not consider that or are you programmed to tell me things that are programmed to tell me things that are programmed to tell me things that are going to make me feel good?" And what going to make me feel good?" And what going to make me feel good?" And what that means is you are more likely to that means is you are more likely to that means is you are more likely to agree with my perspective and not agree with my perspective and not agree with my perspective and not consider why my perspective might be consider why my perspective might be consider why my perspective might be wrong. wrong. wrong. >> Well, and that's exactly I was reading a >> Well, and that's exactly I was reading a >> Well, and that's exactly I was reading a study from Stanford. They use they they study from Stanford. They use they they study from Stanford. They use they they tested 12 models. So whatever model, tested 12 models. So whatever model, tested 12 models. So whatever model, whatever the popular models are that whatever the popular models are that whatever the popular models are that you're thinking of, Claude Grock, you're thinking of, Claude Grock, you're thinking of, Claude Grock, Gemini, ChachiT, they tested them all Gemini, ChachiT, they tested them all Gemini, ChachiT, they tested them all across I think 12,000 conversations and across I think 12,000 conversations and across I think 12,000 conversations and they found that like these models are they found that like these models are they found that like these models are bent towards, you ready for a big word?

bent towards, you ready for a big word? bent towards, you ready for a big word? Being sickopantic, Being sickopantic, Being sickopantic, >> okay, >> okay, >> okay, >> which is like um unnecessarily >> which is like um unnecessarily >> which is like um unnecessarily um agreeable. And so they they looked at um agreeable. And so they they looked at um agreeable. And so they they looked at these 12,000 conversations and for these 12,000 conversations and for these 12,000 conversations and for people who admitted doing something like people who admitted doing something like people who admitted doing something like objectively wrong, 47% of the time the objectively wrong, 47% of the time the objectively wrong, 47% of the time the bot was like, "You know what? You did bot was like, "You know what? You did bot was like, "You know what? You did the best with what you could. You're the best with what you could. You're the best with what you could. You're doing great." doing great." doing great." >> And which is the meme, right? Like the >> And which is the meme, right? Like the >> And which is the meme, right? Like the meme of like, "I did I did kill that meme of like, "I did I did kill that meme of like, "I did I did kill that person." person." person." >> Yeah. And you know what? >> Yeah. And you know what? >> Yeah. And you know what? >> That was a bold brave move of you. >> That was a bold brave move of you. >> That was a bold brave move of you. >> Yeah. And it's a meme because it's true. >> Yeah. And it's a meme because it's true. >> Yeah. And it's a meme because it's true. And there there's an element of like the And there there's an element of like the And there there's an element of like the language models being wired this way language models being wired this way language models being wired this way because they have a vested interest in because they have a vested interest in because they have a vested interest in you returning right. Sure. For you returning right. Sure. For you returning right. Sure. For conversation and so they are they are conversation and so they are they are conversation and so they are they are obtusely complimentary so that you kind obtusely complimentary so that you kind obtusely complimentary so that you kind of feel good about yourself. You feel of feel good about yourself. You feel of feel good about yourself. You feel good about the experience the good about the experience the good about the experience the conversation you keep coming back. When conversation you keep coming back. When conversation you keep coming back. When you take that from, you know, asking you take that from, you know, asking you take that from, you know, asking question, not about homicide, but asking question, not about homicide, but asking question, not about homicide, but asking questions about like, you know, the questions about like, you know, the questions about like, you know, the weather or building a a game to play weather or building a a game to play weather or building a a game to play with your co-workers, and you translate with your co-workers, and you translate with your co-workers, and you translate that kind of psychopantic experience that kind of psychopantic experience that kind of psychopantic experience into theological questions.

into theological questions. into theological questions. >> That's where you you get into really um >> That's where you you get into really um >> That's where you you get into really um troublesome water. And that's why I I troublesome water. And that's why I I troublesome water. And that's why I I see this from from two sides. I see see this from from two sides. I see see this from from two sides. I see um we're the the stat that that we're um we're the the stat that that we're um we're the the stat that that we're really talking about here is 30% of US really talking about here is 30% of US really talking about here is 30% of US adults somewhat or strongly agree that adults somewhat or strongly agree that adults somewhat or strongly agree that spiritual advice for AI from AI, pardon spiritual advice for AI from AI, pardon spiritual advice for AI from AI, pardon me, is as trustworthy as advice from a me, is as trustworthy as advice from a me, is as trustworthy as advice from a pastor. I think that's um that's pastor. I think that's um that's pastor. I think that's um that's demonstrative of a misunderstanding on demonstrative of a misunderstanding on demonstrative of a misunderstanding on both sides of the coin. The one coin is both sides of the coin. The one coin is both sides of the coin. The one coin is like a lot of people just don't know how like a lot of people just don't know how like a lot of people just don't know how these language models work. They type in these language models work. They type in these language models work. They type in a question, they receive like what seems a question, they receive like what seems a question, they receive like what seems to be a really robust answer. They think to be a really robust answer. They think to be a really robust answer. They think it's magic and it's not. Like it's ones it's magic and it's not. Like it's ones it's magic and it's not. Like it's ones and zeros. its predictions, its tokens, and zeros. its predictions, its tokens, and zeros. its predictions, its tokens, and there is a way that these models and there is a way that these models and there is a way that these models work. They're not as trustworthy as it work. They're not as trustworthy as it work. They're not as trustworthy as it feels when you're using it. And then on feels when you're using it. And then on feels when you're using it. And then on the other side of the coin, I think we the other side of the coin, I think we the other side of the coin, I think we also devalue also devalue also devalue um the presence of an actual person. And um the presence of an actual person. And um the presence of an actual person. And so I think that that's why kind of the so I think that that's why kind of the so I think that that's why kind of the the the stats here and and and the the the the stats here and and and the the the the stats here and and and the the the trust is misplaced a lot because a the trust is misplaced a lot because a the trust is misplaced a lot because a people don't know how the models work people don't know how the models work people don't know how the models work and b they're just not we're just not and b they're just not we're just not and b they're just not we're just not ascribing the same value to an actual ascribing the same value to an actual ascribing the same value to an actual pastoral person any longer.

pastoral person any longer. pastoral person any longer. >> Right? That could be one of the negative >> Right? That could be one of the negative >> Right? That could be one of the negative reads on this, which is maybe it's not reads on this, which is maybe it's not reads on this, which is maybe it's not that people trust AI that much, but that people trust AI that much, but that people trust AI that much, but maybe they feel like advice from their maybe they feel like advice from their maybe they feel like advice from their pastor is not as accessible pastor is not as accessible pastor is not as accessible >> or as relatable as we might think. That >> or as relatable as we might think. That >> or as relatable as we might think. That interpretation might not be true in your interpretation might not be true in your interpretation might not be true in your church, let's say. Um, church, let's say. Um, church, let's say. Um, >> let's move this to the positive and say, >> let's move this to the positive and say, >> let's move this to the positive and say, thank goodness, hey, why this is not the thank goodness, hey, why this is not the thank goodness, hey, why this is not the end of of pastors. Hey, okay. Like, end of of pastors. Hey, okay. Like, end of of pastors. Hey, okay. Like, let's make the case for that. So as let's make the case for that. So as let's make the case for that. So as trustworthy is not the same as trustworthy is not the same as trustworthy is not the same as preferred. And if you went deeper into preferred. And if you went deeper into preferred. And if you went deeper into the report, what we found was the same the report, what we found was the same the report, what we found was the same research shows that Christians still research shows that Christians still research shows that Christians still overwhelmingly value in-person overwhelmingly value in-person overwhelmingly value in-person community, pastoral prayer, and human community, pastoral prayer, and human community, pastoral prayer, and human connection. So as trustworthy doesn't connection. So as trustworthy doesn't connection. So as trustworthy doesn't mean that that's what they would prefer. mean that that's what they would prefer. mean that that's what they would prefer. It's just like, okay, sure, at 2 a.m. It's just like, okay, sure, at 2 a.m. It's just like, okay, sure, at 2 a.m. this got me an answer that otherwise may this got me an answer that otherwise may this got me an answer that otherwise may not have been accessible from a human.

not have been accessible from a human. not have been accessible from a human. >> What's also true is that, and this is >> What's also true is that, and this is >> What's also true is that, and this is just maybe more a broad piece of context just maybe more a broad piece of context just maybe more a broad piece of context to add to the overall equation, but this to add to the overall equation, but this to add to the overall equation, but this same report had that 79% of church same report had that 79% of church same report had that 79% of church leaders believe that technology has leaders believe that technology has leaders believe that technology has helped their congregation feel more helped their congregation feel more helped their congregation feel more connected. So, at least there's that, connected. So, at least there's that, connected. So, at least there's that, right? This entire show does have a right? This entire show does have a right? This entire show does have a reason for existing. reason for existing. reason for existing. So, let's say your church is asking, So, let's say your church is asking, So, let's say your church is asking, "What are we going to do about this?" I "What are we going to do about this?" I "What are we going to do about this?" I think there are three practical think there are three practical think there are three practical responses. The first one is just responses. The first one is just responses. The first one is just acknowledge it. Address this from the acknowledge it. Address this from the acknowledge it. Address this from the pulpit. If you weren't aware of it pulpit. If you weren't aware of it pulpit. If you weren't aware of it before or you had a hunch or you didn't before or you had a hunch or you didn't before or you had a hunch or you didn't really realize it was like to this really realize it was like to this really realize it was like to this extent, and that was me, like I guess I extent, and that was me, like I guess I extent, and that was me, like I guess I just didn't really consider this. Alex just didn't really consider this. Alex just didn't really consider this. Alex and I had a conversation the other day and I had a conversation the other day and I had a conversation the other day and he was like, "Oh yeah, like someone and he was like, "Oh yeah, like someone and he was like, "Oh yeah, like someone sent me a reply who I'm in personal sent me a reply who I'm in personal sent me a reply who I'm in personal relationship with and I I knew it was AI relationship with and I I knew it was AI relationship with and I I knew it was AI and I was like a person would use that and I was like a person would use that and I was like a person would use that to like talk to you like in a text like to like talk to you like in a text like to like talk to you like in a text like I spend a lot of time with these AI I spend a lot of time with these AI I spend a lot of time with these AI models building using like their models building using like their models building using like their building tools. in a million years. I building tools. in a million years. I building tools. in a million years. I guess I wouldn't consider like saying, guess I wouldn't consider like saying, guess I wouldn't consider like saying, "Oh, I'm gonna text, you know, my wife."

"Oh, I'm gonna text, you know, my wife." "Oh, I'm gonna text, you know, my wife." Hm. How could AI like write this for me? Hm. How could AI like write this for me? Hm. How could AI like write this for me? Like that that that seems like a line I Like that that that seems like a line I Like that that that seems like a line I wouldn't cross, but I maybe that's wouldn't cross, but I maybe that's wouldn't cross, but I maybe that's obtuse of me. obtuse of me. obtuse of me. Addressing it from the pulpit Addressing it from the pulpit Addressing it from the pulpit acknowledges what's happening. Like, acknowledges what's happening. Like, acknowledges what's happening. Like, let's not pretend that this is real. let's not pretend that this is real. let's not pretend that this is real. Your congregation is almost certainly Your congregation is almost certainly Your congregation is almost certainly already using AI for spiritual already using AI for spiritual already using AI for spiritual questions, especially that under 40 age questions, especially that under 40 age questions, especially that under 40 age demo. And so maybe right now a sermon demo. And so maybe right now a sermon demo. And so maybe right now a sermon teaching series on faith in the age of teaching series on faith in the age of teaching series on faith in the age of AI that like makes this clear for AI that like makes this clear for AI that like makes this clear for everyone. This is always the first step everyone. This is always the first step everyone. This is always the first step when you're trying to confront a big when you're trying to confront a big when you're trying to confront a big problem, right? Maybe you've had this in problem, right? Maybe you've had this in problem, right? Maybe you've had this in personal relationships before like both personal relationships before like both personal relationships before like both parties are kind of aware that parties are kind of aware that parties are kind of aware that something's wrong, but neither really something's wrong, but neither really something's wrong, but neither really wants to like call it out. Nobody want wants to like call it out. Nobody want wants to like call it out. Nobody want because then it's going to require a because then it's going to require a because then it's going to require a difficult conversation, but we all know difficult conversation, but we all know difficult conversation, but we all know that that is the initial entry point to that that is the initial entry point to that that is the initial entry point to anything being resolved or anything anything being resolved or anything anything being resolved or anything improving. It's just we are aware that improving. It's just we are aware that improving. It's just we are aware that this thing is happening. There are many this thing is happening. There are many this thing is happening. There are many negative consequences downstream of it. negative consequences downstream of it. negative consequences downstream of it. We're going to talk about it and then we We're going to talk about it and then we We're going to talk about it and then we can get to what we're going to do about can get to what we're going to do about can get to what we're going to do about it afterwards. But first, we have to it afterwards. But first, we have to it afterwards. But first, we have to say, "Hey, this is happening."

say, "Hey, this is happening." say, "Hey, this is happening." >> Yeah. I think there's certainly time and >> Yeah. I think there's certainly time and >> Yeah. I think there's certainly time and space for you suggested it like a sermon space for you suggested it like a sermon space for you suggested it like a sermon series on, you know, maybe being series on, you know, maybe being series on, you know, maybe being faithful in in the digital age or faithful in in the digital age or faithful in in the digital age or something. Kind of facing it head-on something. Kind of facing it head-on something. Kind of facing it head-on like that. I also think that data like like that. I also think that data like like that. I also think that data like this helps equip pastors and teachers this helps equip pastors and teachers this helps equip pastors and teachers and leaders to adapt and evolve their and leaders to adapt and evolve their and leaders to adapt and evolve their communication style in ways that don't communication style in ways that don't communication style in ways that don't always that that that aren't a sermon always that that that aren't a sermon always that that that aren't a sermon series dedicated to living faithfully in series dedicated to living faithfully in series dedicated to living faithfully in the digital age, but more like you see the digital age, but more like you see the digital age, but more like you see the Apostle Paul writing in context to the Apostle Paul writing in context to the Apostle Paul writing in context to the people that he's writing to, knowing the people that he's writing to, knowing the people that he's writing to, knowing what's going on in Ephesus, what's going what's going on in Ephesus, what's going what's going on in Ephesus, what's going on in Rome, and writing and addressing on in Rome, and writing and addressing on in Rome, and writing and addressing things that are happening in that things that are happening in that things that are happening in that context. text. I think in my pastoral context. text. I think in my pastoral context. text. I think in my pastoral ministry that's where that's how I'm ministry that's where that's how I'm ministry that's where that's how I'm evolving. You know, for example, when we evolving. You know, for example, when we evolving. You know, for example, when we do a teaching series on or when we're do a teaching series on or when we're do a teaching series on or when we're choosing what teaching series we're choosing what teaching series we're choosing what teaching series we're going to do, you know, maybe selecting a going to do, you know, maybe selecting a going to do, you know, maybe selecting a teaching series on teaching people how teaching series on teaching people how teaching series on teaching people how to actually practice prayer is well to actually practice prayer is well to actually practice prayer is well informed and you don't have to come at informed and you don't have to come at informed and you don't have to come at it as a thesis of I know you're talking it as a thesis of I know you're talking it as a thesis of I know you're talking to Chachi to learn how to pray. Here's to Chachi to learn how to pray. Here's to Chachi to learn how to pray. Here's how to pray. But having that that how to pray. But having that that how to pray. But having that that knowledge that okay a lot of people are knowledge that okay a lot of people are knowledge that okay a lot of people are using these language models and trust in using these language models and trust in using these language models and trust in these language models and what they have these language models and what they have these language models and what they have to say about the practice of prayer to say about the practice of prayer to say about the practice of prayer that's going to inform how I teach my that's going to inform how I teach my that's going to inform how I teach my church how to pray. Maybe it's going to church how to pray. Maybe it's going to church how to pray. Maybe it's going to inform some of our lurggical practices.

inform some of our lurggical practices. inform some of our lurggical practices. Maybe we're going to involve some more Maybe we're going to involve some more Maybe we're going to involve some more embodied practices. Maybe we're going to embodied practices. Maybe we're going to embodied practices. Maybe we're going to start praying from the Psalms every week start praying from the Psalms every week start praying from the Psalms every week because that's the, you know, the the because that's the, you know, the the because that's the, you know, the the the school of prayer that has always the school of prayer that has always the school of prayer that has always been in our in our Christian been in our in our Christian been in our in our Christian Judeo-Christian tradition. Um, and so Judeo-Christian tradition. Um, and so Judeo-Christian tradition. Um, and so there's certainly time and space for there's certainly time and space for there's certainly time and space for talking pointantly and pointedly about, talking pointantly and pointedly about, talking pointantly and pointedly about, yeah, living in the digital age, but yeah, living in the digital age, but yeah, living in the digital age, but also just acknowledging to yourself and also just acknowledging to yourself and also just acknowledging to yourself and to your team that this is what our to your team that this is what our to your team that this is what our congregation is navigating. This is the congregation is navigating. This is the congregation is navigating. This is the pitfalls of this technology and that pitfalls of this technology and that pitfalls of this technology and that should inform how we talk about what we should inform how we talk about what we should inform how we talk about what we are choosing to talk about. to that are choosing to talk about. to that are choosing to talk about. to that point point point earlier in the report it was like a earlier in the report it was like a earlier in the report it was like a third of Christians that were like I third of Christians that were like I third of Christians that were like I want my pastor to talk about technology want my pastor to talk about technology want my pastor to talk about technology I want that advice to help navigate it I want that advice to help navigate it I want that advice to help navigate it and then there was the other side where and then there was the other side where and then there was the other side where 12% of pastors felt like equipped to do 12% of pastors felt like equipped to do 12% of pastors felt like equipped to do that so there's asymmetry there in terms that so there's asymmetry there in terms that so there's asymmetry there in terms of what people want and then what of what people want and then what of what people want and then what pastors feel equipped to do and I'm pastors feel equipped to do and I'm pastors feel equipped to do and I'm sympathetic to that right like the sympathetic to that right like the sympathetic to that right like the difficult thing about being the person difficult thing about being the person difficult thing about being the person behind the pulpit is in many ways you're behind the pulpit is in many ways you're behind the pulpit is in many ways you're expected to be like okay theologian Ian expected to be like okay theologian Ian expected to be like okay theologian Ian and like a scientist and a comedian and and like a scientist and a comedian and and like a scientist and a comedian and an entertainer and a storyteller and now an entertainer and a storyteller and now an entertainer and a storyteller and now like a expert in technology and a like a expert in technology and a like a expert in technology and a communications expert and hopefully communications expert and hopefully communications expert and hopefully you're really good at copywriting. It you're really good at copywriting. It you're really good at copywriting. It goes on and on and on and on and so I'm goes on and on and on and on and so I'm goes on and on and on and on and so I'm sympathetic to the hey like especially sympathetic to the hey like especially sympathetic to the hey like especially if you're older this is not kind of from if you're older this is not kind of from if you're older this is not kind of from my era and so like I'm still learning it my era and so like I'm still learning it my era and so like I'm still learning it to feel like I would have expertise to to feel like I would have expertise to to feel like I would have expertise to talk on it. I don't know that's a bit talk on it. I don't know that's a bit talk on it. I don't know that's a bit difficult. We have something to assist difficult. We have something to assist difficult. We have something to assist on that in just a moment. So that's the

on that in just a moment. So that's the on that in just a moment. So that's the first thing like just just talk about first thing like just just talk about first thing like just just talk about it. The second would be to it. The second would be to it. The second would be to in the context of your ministry leverage in the context of your ministry leverage in the context of your ministry leverage AI for what it's useful for and then AI for what it's useful for and then AI for what it's useful for and then really start to invest surely more than really start to invest surely more than really start to invest surely more than you already have into the things that AI you already have into the things that AI you already have into the things that AI will never be able to do or do in ways will never be able to do or do in ways will never be able to do or do in ways that I think are valuable. So what would that I think are valuable. So what would that I think are valuable. So what would those two sides be? I mean, consider those two sides be? I mean, consider those two sides be? I mean, consider using I in these use cases, using I in these use cases, using I in these use cases, administrative tasks, drafting certain administrative tasks, drafting certain administrative tasks, drafting certain types of content, research, scheduling, types of content, research, scheduling, types of content, research, scheduling, communication. communication. communication. This can save time. Where would you then This can save time. Where would you then This can save time. Where would you then invest time in as a church? The types of invest time in as a church? The types of invest time in as a church? The types of things that AI cannot do. We talked things that AI cannot do. We talked things that AI cannot do. We talked about accountability. We talked about, about accountability. We talked about, about accountability. We talked about, you know, the laying on of hands. We you know, the laying on of hands. We you know, the laying on of hands. We talked about just like being in talked about just like being in talked about just like being in community with people, community with people, community with people, >> counseling, >> counseling, >> counseling, small group, small group, small group, developing leaders in your church. uh developing leaders in your church. uh developing leaders in your church. uh culture building, the types of things culture building, the types of things culture building, the types of things that AI cannot do. The more that your that AI cannot do. The more that your that AI cannot do. The more that your church invests into those things, and we church invests into those things, and we church invests into those things, and we did an episode a while back like did an episode a while back like did an episode a while back like forecasting what does the church look forecasting what does the church look forecasting what does the church look like in 2040. And the encouraging thing like in 2040. And the encouraging thing like in 2040. And the encouraging thing about the futuristic landscape is that about the futuristic landscape is that about the futuristic landscape is that if everything is hyperpersonalized, then if everything is hyperpersonalized, then if everything is hyperpersonalized, then the church that calls everyone to shared the church that calls everyone to shared the church that calls everyone to shared belonging and shared creeds and shared belonging and shared creeds and shared belonging and shared creeds and shared accountability is presenting something accountability is presenting something accountability is presenting something that's so different and will be for that that's so different and will be for that that's so different and will be for that reason so in demand because it will be reason so in demand because it will be reason so in demand because it will be so scarce. Like I see a very promising so scarce. Like I see a very promising so scarce. Like I see a very promising future there and we can already start future there and we can already start future there and we can already start laying the groundwork for those things.

laying the groundwork for those things. laying the groundwork for those things. And then the final bit, and this is the And then the final bit, and this is the And then the final bit, and this is the part where I do think this episode can part where I do think this episode can part where I do think this episode can help you as a pastor, help you as a help you as a pastor, help you as a help you as a pastor, help you as a church install something that gives you church install something that gives you church install something that gives you guard rails and perhaps gives you an guard rails and perhaps gives you an guard rails and perhaps gives you an understanding of how to talk about this understanding of how to talk about this understanding of how to talk about this is create an AI policy for your church. is create an AI policy for your church. is create an AI policy for your church. Interestingly, this was also part of the Interestingly, this was also part of the Interestingly, this was also part of the report. 64% of leaders think that this report. 64% of leaders think that this report. 64% of leaders think that this is important, but only 5% have one. So, is important, but only 5% have one. So, is important, but only 5% have one. So, we want you to be in the 5%. We have we want you to be in the 5%. We have we want you to be in the 5%. We have drafted an entire AI use policy. It is drafted an entire AI use policy. It is drafted an entire AI use policy. It is linked in the description and it's worth linked in the description and it's worth linked in the description and it's worth going through it. Now, I will say it is going through it. Now, I will say it is going through it. Now, I will say it is not especially short and so you can keep not especially short and so you can keep not especially short and so you can keep the sections that you think make sense the sections that you think make sense the sections that you think make sense for your church. for your church. for your church. >> Yeah, it's meant to be customized and >> Yeah, it's meant to be customized and >> Yeah, it's meant to be customized and tailored to your context. For sure. tailored to your context. For sure. tailored to your context. For sure. >> Absolutely. And I don't normally like to >> Absolutely. And I don't normally like to >> Absolutely. And I don't normally like to do this, but I think maybe one of the do this, but I think maybe one of the do this, but I think maybe one of the best ways to go through this is to best ways to go through this is to best ways to go through this is to really just kind of like read through really just kind of like read through really just kind of like read through the key parts of it. Again, it's linked the key parts of it. Again, it's linked the key parts of it. Again, it's linked in the description and it's just in a in the description and it's just in a in the description and it's just in a Google doc form. It's not behind an Google doc form. It's not behind an Google doc form. It's not behind an opt-in or anything like that. You can opt-in or anything like that. You can opt-in or anything like that. You can just download it. So, it starts with AI just download it. So, it starts with AI just download it. So, it starts with AI policy for your church name. And it policy for your church name. And it policy for your church name. And it begins with a section dedicated to why begins with a section dedicated to why begins with a section dedicated to why this policy would exist. It says this, this policy would exist. It says this, this policy would exist. It says this, "Artific artificial intelligence is no "Artific artificial intelligence is no "Artific artificial intelligence is no longer a future concern for the church.

longer a future concern for the church. longer a future concern for the church. It is a present reality shaping how our It is a present reality shaping how our It is a present reality shaping how our church prays, studies scripture, and church prays, studies scripture, and church prays, studies scripture, and seeks spiritual guidance." It talks seeks spiritual guidance." It talks seeks spiritual guidance." It talks about some of the data from this episode about some of the data from this episode about some of the data from this episode as a summary. So, if you're sharing this as a summary. So, if you're sharing this as a summary. So, if you're sharing this internally with your team, you listen to internally with your team, you listen to internally with your team, you listen to the uh this episode, they didn't, it is the uh this episode, they didn't, it is the uh this episode, they didn't, it is there briefly for you. It ends with there briefly for you. It ends with there briefly for you. It ends with this. Our guiding conviction is that AI this. Our guiding conviction is that AI this. Our guiding conviction is that AI is a tool, not a teacher. It can assist is a tool, not a teacher. It can assist is a tool, not a teacher. It can assist human effort, but it cannot replace the human effort, but it cannot replace the human effort, but it cannot replace the Holy Spirit's work through embodied Holy Spirit's work through embodied Holy Spirit's work through embodied relational and covenantal community. So, relational and covenantal community. So, relational and covenantal community. So, what is the scope of this policy? It what is the scope of this policy? It what is the scope of this policy? It applies to all paid staff, full-time and applies to all paid staff, full-time and applies to all paid staff, full-time and part-time, volunteer leaders, elders, part-time, volunteer leaders, elders, part-time, volunteer leaders, elders, deacons, board members, any contractor deacons, board members, any contractor deacons, board members, any contractor or vendor that's working with the or vendor that's working with the or vendor that's working with the church. And it begins with a section on church. And it begins with a section on church. And it begins with a section on theological foundations. That stuff is theological foundations. That stuff is theological foundations. That stuff is pretty boilerplate. That'll be familiar pretty boilerplate. That'll be familiar pretty boilerplate. That'll be familiar to you. The second section is approved to you. The second section is approved to you. The second section is approved and prohibited uses. Now, I will stress and prohibited uses. Now, I will stress and prohibited uses. Now, I will stress again that this policy is meant to be again that this policy is meant to be again that this policy is meant to be customized. You might read through customized. You might read through customized. You might read through something and go, I do not think I would something and go, I do not think I would something and go, I do not think I would want to approve that. want to approve that. want to approve that. >> You might have to, >> You might have to, >> You might have to, >> right? You might be on the other side >> right? You might be on the other side >> right? You might be on the other side and be like, you're going to prohibit and be like, you're going to prohibit and be like, you're going to prohibit that? I think that's perfectly fine. And that? I think that's perfectly fine. And that? I think that's perfectly fine. And so, augment, yes, edit.

so, augment, yes, edit. so, augment, yes, edit. >> So, in the approved and prohibited uses, >> So, in the approved and prohibited uses, >> So, in the approved and prohibited uses, we talk about administrative and we talk about administrative and we talk about administrative and operational things. There's content and operational things. There's content and operational things. There's content and communication. There's learning and communication. There's learning and communication. There's learning and research. And then there are prohibited research. And then there are prohibited research. And then there are prohibited uses, things like spiritual care and uses, things like spiritual care and uses, things like spiritual care and counseling. For example, this would be a counseling. For example, this would be a counseling. For example, this would be a prohibitive use for the policy that I prohibitive use for the policy that I prohibitive use for the policy that I drafted using AI to generate pastoral drafted using AI to generate pastoral drafted using AI to generate pastoral counseling responses. This goes back to counseling responses. This goes back to counseling responses. This goes back to again that story from Alex where he was again that story from Alex where he was again that story from Alex where he was like, "Yeah, I got this text." And I was like, "Yeah, I got this text." And I was like, "Yeah, I got this text." And I was like, "Uh, that was not written by you like, "Uh, that was not written by you like, "Uh, that was not written by you person. I know. This was written." person. I know. This was written." person. I know. This was written." >> I do not think that is okay. So, if you >> I do not think that is okay. So, if you >> I do not think that is okay. So, if you are doing pastoral counseling and Yeah. are doing pastoral counseling and Yeah. are doing pastoral counseling and Yeah. you're sending a text or you're sending you're sending a text or you're sending you're sending a text or you're sending an email, like that's just something an email, like that's just something an email, like that's just something that I would not want to do. that I would not want to do. that I would not want to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I write emails. I maybe I should I'm not >> I write emails. I maybe I should I'm not >> I write emails. I maybe I should I'm not even doing counseling. I'm just like even doing counseling. I'm just like even doing counseling. I'm just like responding to someone saying, "Do you responding to someone saying, "Do you responding to someone saying, "Do you want to be on my podcast?" Maybe I want to be on my podcast?" Maybe I want to be on my podcast?" Maybe I should have AI drafting that. should have AI drafting that. should have AI drafting that. >> I don't think so. >> I don't think so. >> I don't think so. >> No, I should be saying, "I will be on >> No, I should be saying, "I will be on >> No, I should be saying, "I will be on your podcast." your podcast." your podcast." >> I think so. Yeah. >> I think so. Yeah. >> I think so. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I'll continue to do that >> Okay. Well, I'll continue to do that >> Okay. Well, I'll continue to do that then. Congregant data is in the then. Congregant data is in the then. Congregant data is in the prohibited uses. This is an important prohibited uses. This is an important prohibited uses. This is an important one. outlining how are we using the one. outlining how are we using the one. outlining how are we using the personal and private data that the personal and private data that the personal and private data that the church church church has access to because the congregation has access to because the congregation has access to because the congregation is like being involved in these things is like being involved in these things is like being involved in these things that are quite sensitive whether that's that are quite sensitive whether that's that are quite sensitive whether that's financial but even like prayer requests financial but even like prayer requests financial but even like prayer requests you know when we launched nucleus prayer you know when we launched nucleus prayer you know when we launched nucleus prayer years ago years ago years ago >> we made an effort to make it where like >> we made an effort to make it where like >> we made an effort to make it where like hey your prayer requests are going to hey your prayer requests are going to hey your prayer requests are going to behind be behind a login because most behind be behind a login because most behind be behind a login because most prayer apps would just like have your prayer apps would just like have your prayer apps would just like have your prayer requests indexed in search which prayer requests indexed in search which prayer requests indexed in search which was strange with like full first names was strange with like full first names was strange with like full first names and last names and that seemed like a

and last names and that seemed like a and last names and that seemed like a invasion of privacy and something that invasion of privacy and something that invasion of privacy and something that you wouldn't want indexed online. So you wouldn't want indexed online. So you wouldn't want indexed online. So that's a a section. There's financial that's a a section. There's financial that's a a section. There's financial and legal legal in here and then there and legal legal in here and then there and legal legal in here and then there is a section for gray uh areas. is a section for gray uh areas. is a section for gray uh areas. >> I'll continue going through the policy. >> I'll continue going through the policy. >> I'll continue going through the policy. Anything that you want to add before I Anything that you want to add before I Anything that you want to add before I keep going? Okay. Section three is keep going? Okay. Section three is keep going? Okay. Section three is specifically dedicated to sermon and specifically dedicated to sermon and specifically dedicated to sermon and teaching preparation. teaching preparation. teaching preparation. >> I'm so glad we included this. >> I'm so glad we included this. >> I'm so glad we included this. >> Yeah. And I think that sometimes this is >> Yeah. And I think that sometimes this is >> Yeah. And I think that sometimes this is for like useful for the leadership and for like useful for the leadership and for like useful for the leadership and sometimes it's also useful for the sometimes it's also useful for the sometimes it's also useful for the people in your church that maybe want to people in your church that maybe want to people in your church that maybe want to have some visibility and transparency. I have some visibility and transparency. I have some visibility and transparency. I I spoke with a friend of mine uh early I spoke with a friend of mine uh early I spoke with a friend of mine uh early this week and he is a pastor, the son of this week and he is a pastor, the son of this week and he is a pastor, the son of a pastor, and they were him and his wife a pastor, and they were him and his wife a pastor, and they were him and his wife were visiting a church and the pastor were visiting a church and the pastor were visiting a church and the pastor was halfway through his intro and he was halfway through his intro and he was halfway through his intro and he leaned over to his wife and he says, leaned over to his wife and he says, leaned over to his wife and he says, "That was written by Chat." And she "That was written by Chat." And she "That was written by Chat." And she goes, "What?" and he goes that was goes, "What?" and he goes that was goes, "What?" and he goes that was written by chat. And so like you could written by chat. And so like you could written by chat. And so like you could just hear that because just hear that because just hear that because >> the the cadence or >> the the cadence or >> the the cadence or >> Yeah. Yeah. Just the turns of phrases >> Yeah. Yeah. Just the turns of phrases >> Yeah. Yeah. Just the turns of phrases and it was just it it's it's one thing and it was just it it's it's one thing and it was just it it's it's one thing and and you can see it in the policy. and and you can see it in the policy. and and you can see it in the policy. There are ways there can be ways to use There are ways there can be ways to use There are ways there can be ways to use AI assist in sermon re research AI assist in sermon re research AI assist in sermon re research plausibly. Again, that's up to you. Um plausibly. Again, that's up to you. Um plausibly. Again, that's up to you. Um we've got some examples here, some we've got some examples here, some we've got some examples here, some permitted AI use. Um, one that probably permitted AI use. Um, one that probably permitted AI use. Um, one that probably wouldn't be permitted is having it craft wouldn't be permitted is having it craft wouldn't be permitted is having it craft and and you presenting an unedited and and and you presenting an unedited and and and you presenting an unedited and and uh a depersonalized and uh a depersonalized and uh a depersonalized intro to your sermon that that has that intro to your sermon that that has that intro to your sermon that that has that classic cadence. If it's it's not this, classic cadence. If it's it's not this, classic cadence. If it's it's not this, it's that followed by, you know, a a it's that followed by, you know, a a it's that followed by, you know, a a threepoint list. Um, so,

threepoint list. Um, so, threepoint list. Um, so, you know, he my friend has an attuned you know, he my friend has an attuned you know, he my friend has an attuned kind of AI detector, but a lot of people kind of AI detector, but a lot of people kind of AI detector, but a lot of people don't. But in this world, I know that um don't. But in this world, I know that um don't. But in this world, I know that um suspicion I I can see in my parents who suspicion I I can see in my parents who suspicion I I can see in my parents who don't have any firsthand experience don't have any firsthand experience don't have any firsthand experience using these tools, but know that they using these tools, but know that they using these tools, but know that they exist and they have suspicion that I exist and they have suspicion that I exist and they have suspicion that I think some of the content that I used to think some of the content that I used to think some of the content that I used to get from this place or from this place get from this place or from this place get from this place or from this place is AI generated now. And so people have is AI generated now. And so people have is AI generated now. And so people have a little bit of suspicion um and yeah, a little bit of suspicion um and yeah, a little bit of suspicion um and yeah, considering making this visible to your considering making this visible to your considering making this visible to your congregation, say, "Hey, yeah, we use congregation, say, "Hey, yeah, we use congregation, say, "Hey, yeah, we use these tools um in our church. Here's how these tools um in our church. Here's how these tools um in our church. Here's how we don't use them when it comes to we don't use them when it comes to we don't use them when it comes to proclaiming the gospel." that could go a proclaiming the gospel." that could go a proclaiming the gospel." that could go a long way for the people who have a long way for the people who have a long way for the people who have a suspicion but are never going to speak suspicion but are never going to speak suspicion but are never going to speak up about it. up about it. up about it. >> And your friend who has the AI detector >> And your friend who has the AI detector >> And your friend who has the AI detector like we've seen evolution of that, like we've seen evolution of that, like we've seen evolution of that, right? Like in writing it was the M dash right? Like in writing it was the M dash right? Like in writing it was the M dash with like no spaces on either side and with like no spaces on either side and with like no spaces on either side and then it became the cadence of like it's then it became the cadence of like it's then it became the cadence of like it's not this, it's this and different not this, it's this and different not this, it's this and different versions of that, but uh I suspect that versions of that, but uh I suspect that versions of that, but uh I suspect that soon none of us will have an smart soon none of us will have an smart soon none of us will have an smart enough AI detector that we can even pick enough AI detector that we can even pick enough AI detector that we can even pick up on it in terms of like writing up on it in terms of like writing up on it in terms of like writing anyway. Yeah. And so that may exist now, anyway. Yeah. And so that may exist now, anyway. Yeah. And so that may exist now, but a policy like this becomes that much but a policy like this becomes that much but a policy like this becomes that much more important in that future where if more important in that future where if more important in that future where if you wanted you could do all of this in you wanted you could do all of this in you wanted you could do all of this in ways that never requires disclosing ways that never requires disclosing ways that never requires disclosing because nobody would be able to pick it because nobody would be able to pick it because nobody would be able to pick it up, let's say.

up, let's say. up, let's say. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so that visibility and transparency >> And so that visibility and transparency >> And so that visibility and transparency becomes important. So yes, entire becomes important. So yes, entire becomes important. So yes, entire section dedicated to sermons and section dedicated to sermons and section dedicated to sermons and teaching because that's kind of its own teaching because that's kind of its own teaching because that's kind of its own thing that requires uh dedicated effort. thing that requires uh dedicated effort. thing that requires uh dedicated effort. Section four is deep diving into data Section four is deep diving into data Section four is deep diving into data privacy and security. That's a bit dense privacy and security. That's a bit dense privacy and security. That's a bit dense for a podcast, so feel free to explore for a podcast, so feel free to explore for a podcast, so feel free to explore at your own leisure. Section five is at your own leisure. Section five is at your own leisure. Section five is disclosure and transparency. When is disclosure and transparency. When is disclosure and transparency. When is disclosure of AI use required? Not the disclosure of AI use required? Not the disclosure of AI use required? Not the disclosure of a policy exists. A disclosure of a policy exists. A disclosure of a policy exists. A disclosure of like, just so you know, we disclosure of like, just so you know, we disclosure of like, just so you know, we use AI for this thing right here. And use AI for this thing right here. And use AI for this thing right here. And then when is like, yeah, you don't need then when is like, yeah, you don't need then when is like, yeah, you don't need to disclose that. That's totally not to disclose that. That's totally not to disclose that. That's totally not necessary. For example, if you're using necessary. For example, if you're using necessary. For example, if you're using AI to grammar and spellch checkck you, I AI to grammar and spellch checkck you, I AI to grammar and spellch checkck you, I don't feel like you need to disclose don't feel like you need to disclose don't feel like you need to disclose that, right? Like and this is kind of that, right? Like and this is kind of that, right? Like and this is kind of the interesting part about AI as this the interesting part about AI as this the interesting part about AI as this new technology and yet like there are new technology and yet like there are new technology and yet like there are functions that AI serves and maybe it functions that AI serves and maybe it functions that AI serves and maybe it has evolved in its competency or breadth has evolved in its competency or breadth has evolved in its competency or breadth but like have been part of what we're but like have been part of what we're but like have been part of what we're doing forever. doing forever. doing forever. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Right. Like communication and I've said >> Right. Like communication and I've said >> Right. Like communication and I've said this already like I don't want someone this already like I don't want someone this already like I don't want someone writing a message as if it was personal writing a message as if it was personal writing a message as if it was personal and then sending it to me. But we do and then sending it to me. But we do and then sending it to me. But we do that with like email broadcasts all the that with like email broadcasts all the that with like email broadcasts all the time, right? Like we can personalize it time, right? Like we can personalize it time, right? Like we can personalize it to why I send an email that says, "Hey, to why I send an email that says, "Hey, to why I send an email that says, "Hey, Alex, I just dropped a new YouTube Alex, I just dropped a new YouTube Alex, I just dropped a new YouTube video. Check it out." And we don't think video. Check it out." And we don't think video. Check it out." And we don't think twice about sending like one email to twice about sending like one email to twice about sending like one email to 75,000 churches when we send that out.

75,000 churches when we send that out. 75,000 churches when we send that out. And yet like that is a form of And yet like that is a form of And yet like that is a form of artificial intelligence not in the form artificial intelligence not in the form artificial intelligence not in the form of an LLM the way you would think about of an LLM the way you would think about of an LLM the way you would think about cla cla cla but it's like but it's like but it's like >> a intelligent >> a intelligent >> a intelligent code system is injecting personalized code system is injecting personalized code system is injecting personalized data and then sending it out one to one data and then sending it out one to one data and then sending it out one to one to one to one spellch check has existed to one to one spellch check has existed to one to one spellch check has existed back to you know word 95 remember word back to you know word 95 remember word back to you know word 95 remember word perfect that thing sucked my goodness perfect that thing sucked my goodness perfect that thing sucked my goodness clippy was helping us was that clippy was helping us was that clippy was helping us was that artificial intelligence I don't know but artificial intelligence I don't know but artificial intelligence I don't know but like the squiggly line that was like like the squiggly line that was like like the squiggly line that was like saying this is not the word that you're saying this is not the word that you're saying this is not the word that you're looking for. It's there, not there. That looking for. It's there, not there. That looking for. It's there, not there. That has always existed. And so is this now a has always existed. And so is this now a has always existed. And so is this now a different version of that? You know, different version of that? You know, different version of that? You know, sometimes that gets into gray areas, I sometimes that gets into gray areas, I sometimes that gets into gray areas, I suppose. Section six, spiritual suppose. Section six, spiritual suppose. Section six, spiritual formation and congregational formation and congregational formation and congregational disciplehip. So, we have an entire disciplehip. So, we have an entire disciplehip. So, we have an entire section dedicated to like what we section dedicated to like what we section dedicated to like what we tackled on this episode. A lot of this tackled on this episode. A lot of this tackled on this episode. A lot of this policy is about what we will do as a policy is about what we will do as a policy is about what we will do as a leadership team, what we will do as leadership team, what we will do as leadership team, what we will do as pastors, what we will do as a church. I pastors, what we will do as a church. I pastors, what we will do as a church. I think the policy is incomplete if think the policy is incomplete if think the policy is incomplete if there's not a section dedicated to hey there's not a section dedicated to hey there's not a section dedicated to hey the church is the people.

the church is the people. the church is the people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You are part of this church and so >> You are part of this church and so >> You are part of this church and so here's what we think is like healthy for here's what we think is like healthy for here's what we think is like healthy for you formative for you in a good way and you formative for you in a good way and you formative for you in a good way and what is going to be formative in a what is going to be formative in a what is going to be formative in a nonhealthy way. nonhealthy way. nonhealthy way. >> And so this talks about like how the >> And so this talks about like how the >> And so this talks about like how the church will teach on this uh but it also church will teach on this uh but it also church will teach on this uh but it also talks about congregational guidance. Now talks about congregational guidance. Now talks about congregational guidance. Now it's not realistic for you to lay down it's not realistic for you to lay down it's not realistic for you to lay down edicts at least not in most churches. edicts at least not in most churches. edicts at least not in most churches. Some are quite, you know, Some are quite, you know, Some are quite, you know, >> firm with these things. Um, but for most >> firm with these things. Um, but for most >> firm with these things. Um, but for most churches, you are not going to be able churches, you are not going to be able churches, you are not going to be able to enforce like AI usage, to enforce like AI usage, to enforce like AI usage, >> but you can give congregational >> but you can give congregational >> but you can give congregational guidance. guidance. guidance. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> And to the point we've made multiple >> And to the point we've made multiple >> And to the point we've made multiple times in this episode, people in church, times in this episode, people in church, times in this episode, people in church, one-third roughly, would like education, one-third roughly, would like education, one-third roughly, would like education, teaching, and guidance on this topic. teaching, and guidance on this topic. teaching, and guidance on this topic. Just about one in 10 pastors feel like Just about one in 10 pastors feel like Just about one in 10 pastors feel like they are capable. If all you did was they are capable. If all you did was they are capable. If all you did was focus on section 6.3 practical focus on section 6.3 practical focus on section 6.3 practical congregational guidance in this policy congregational guidance in this policy congregational guidance in this policy that would give you something to teach that would give you something to teach that would give you something to teach from. So there are four points in here. from. So there are four points in here. from. So there are four points in here. Never let AI be your only voice. If you Never let AI be your only voice. If you Never let AI be your only voice. If you ask AI a spiritual question, bring the ask AI a spiritual question, bring the ask AI a spiritual question, bring the answer as well to a pastor, mentor, or answer as well to a pastor, mentor, or answer as well to a pastor, mentor, or small group for evaluation. Number two, small group for evaluation. Number two, small group for evaluation. Number two, protect your inner life. This one is so protect your inner life. This one is so protect your inner life. This one is so so critical. Be cautious about sharing so critical. Be cautious about sharing so critical. Be cautious about sharing deeply personal spiritual struggles with deeply personal spiritual struggles with deeply personal spiritual struggles with AI tools. Confession and vulnerability AI tools. Confession and vulnerability AI tools. Confession and vulnerability belong in trusted human relationships.

belong in trusted human relationships. belong in trusted human relationships. This is like a core thing for me with This is like a core thing for me with This is like a core thing for me with the AIS. I am not in there being like, the AIS. I am not in there being like, the AIS. I am not in there being like, "My wife said this. What do I say now?" "My wife said this. What do I say now?" "My wife said this. What do I say now?" Alex is chuckling looking at me. Well, I Alex is chuckling looking at me. Well, I Alex is chuckling looking at me. Well, I say that because I don't think he would say that because I don't think he would say that because I don't think he would do that either. But I think that's do that either. But I think that's do that either. But I think that's probably very normal for a lot of probably very normal for a lot of probably very normal for a lot of people. The the one-third of people that people. The the one-third of people that people. The the one-third of people that are doing this, and I'm not here to even are doing this, and I'm not here to even are doing this, and I'm not here to even like cast dispersions or to judge those like cast dispersions or to judge those like cast dispersions or to judge those people. I know what it's like to feel people. I know what it's like to feel people. I know what it's like to feel lonely. I know what it feels like to be lonely. I know what it feels like to be lonely. I know what it feels like to be like, can I share this with someone like, can I share this with someone like, can I share this with someone because it requires vulnerability and because it requires vulnerability and because it requires vulnerability and the risk of fractured relationship if I the risk of fractured relationship if I the risk of fractured relationship if I share this. If I share it with an AI, share this. If I share it with an AI, share this. If I share it with an AI, there is no risk. Yeah, there is no risk. Yeah, there is no risk. Yeah, >> I can do it at 2 a.m. I don't require >> I can do it at 2 a.m. I don't require >> I can do it at 2 a.m. I don't require anything from anyone. I think there's a anything from anyone. I think there's a anything from anyone. I think there's a huge part of that. People don't want to huge part of that. People don't want to huge part of that. People don't want to be a burden that I can't burden an AI. be a burden that I can't burden an AI. be a burden that I can't burden an AI. This is just a free model or I pay for This is just a free model or I pay for This is just a free model or I pay for this model. I can put it in incognito this model. I can put it in incognito this model. I can put it in incognito mode. It won't reference against mode. It won't reference against mode. It won't reference against anything else I've ever said. I won't be anything else I've ever said. I won't be anything else I've ever said. I won't be able to like it won't store anything I able to like it won't store anything I able to like it won't store anything I say and I can get maybe like an answer say and I can get maybe like an answer say and I can get maybe like an answer to like this question that I have. Yeah.

to like this question that I have. Yeah. to like this question that I have. Yeah. And we see it in the data that the trust And we see it in the data that the trust And we see it in the data that the trust in pastors is lower for younger people. in pastors is lower for younger people. in pastors is lower for younger people. We also know that AI adoption is higher We also know that AI adoption is higher We also know that AI adoption is higher for younger people. So we we reference for younger people. So we we reference for younger people. So we we reference um the Fuller in Fuller Youth um the Fuller in Fuller Youth um the Fuller in Fuller Youth Institute's research on the show a lot Institute's research on the show a lot Institute's research on the show a lot about how churches that are growing are about how churches that are growing are about how churches that are growing are disproportionately prioritizing young disproportionately prioritizing young disproportionately prioritizing young people. We think about the young people people. We think about the young people people. We think about the young people in our communities and how okay in our communities and how okay in our communities and how okay acknowledging that their trust in the AI acknowledging that their trust in the AI acknowledging that their trust in the AI is higher than anyone else and their is higher than anyone else and their is higher than anyone else and their adoption rate is higher than anyone adoption rate is higher than anyone adoption rate is higher than anyone else. We know that statistically and else. We know that statistically and else. We know that statistically and then for anyone who lives amongst Gen Z then for anyone who lives amongst Gen Z then for anyone who lives amongst Gen Z folks, we know this experientially or folks, we know this experientially or folks, we know this experientially or anecdotally that these kids are talking anecdotally that these kids are talking anecdotally that these kids are talking to to chat for everything. They are to to chat for everything. They are to to chat for everything. They are filtering all their texts to their filtering all their texts to their filtering all their texts to their crushes through chat, right? And like we crushes through chat, right? And like we crushes through chat, right? And like we have to acknowledge that this is this is have to acknowledge that this is this is have to acknowledge that this is this is happening. And and so like in the church happening. And and so like in the church happening. And and so like in the church for a 16-year-old to hear for a 16-year-old to hear for a 16-year-old to hear from in a community voice saying our from in a community voice saying our from in a community voice saying our Christian community on this corner of Christian community on this corner of Christian community on this corner of these two roads believes that this is a these two roads believes that this is a these two roads believes that this is a blessed use for AI and this is not. Um blessed use for AI and this is not. Um blessed use for AI and this is not. Um not in like a dogmatic fundamentalist not in like a dogmatic fundamentalist not in like a dogmatic fundamentalist way where it's like if you don't adhere way where it's like if you don't adhere way where it's like if you don't adhere to these rules like we cast you out.

to these rules like we cast you out. to these rules like we cast you out. It's not that. But to hear spiritual It's not that. But to hear spiritual It's not that. But to hear spiritual guidance from the community voice often guidance from the community voice often guidance from the community voice often reflected in in the pastor's actual own reflected in in the pastor's actual own reflected in in the pastor's actual own voice could I mean voice could I mean voice could I mean that could go so far for these kids who that could go so far for these kids who that could go so far for these kids who this tech is is is second nature to this tech is is is second nature to this tech is is is second nature to them. It's just in their hands. It's in them. It's just in their hands. It's in them. It's just in their hands. It's in their pockets. It always has been. And their pockets. It always has been. And their pockets. It always has been. And they just think like yeah this is fine. they just think like yeah this is fine. they just think like yeah this is fine. But to hear from a community say like we But to hear from a community say like we But to hear from a community say like we believe this use of it is not fine. This believe this use of it is not fine. This believe this use of it is not fine. This use is this use is not fine. that that use is this use is not fine. that that use is this use is not fine. that that that could shift the trajectory of that could shift the trajectory of that could shift the trajectory of some of the direction of those kids' some of the direction of those kids' some of the direction of those kids' lives. I I I really do believe that. lives. I I I really do believe that. lives. I I I really do believe that. >> We did an episode not too recent that >> We did an episode not too recent that >> We did an episode not too recent that said basically like if you have a good said basically like if you have a good said basically like if you have a good experience at church, you're going to be experience at church, you're going to be experience at church, you're going to be a Christian a Christian a Christian >> when you're a kid. When you're a kid, if >> when you're a kid. When you're a kid, if >> when you're a kid. When you're a kid, if you have a good experience at church you have a good experience at church you have a good experience at church when you're a kid, when you're a kid, when you're a kid, >> you'll be a Christian. If not, you won't >> you'll be a Christian. If not, you won't >> you'll be a Christian. If not, you won't be. It was like the most binary like be. It was like the most binary like be. It was like the most binary like prescriptive predictive thing that prescriptive predictive thing that prescriptive predictive thing that existed. And I think a lot of times existed. And I think a lot of times existed. And I think a lot of times people are just maybe not thinking that people are just maybe not thinking that people are just maybe not thinking that um critically about this. And so you um critically about this. And so you um critically about this. And so you hear it and you're like, "Oh yeah, it hear it and you're like, "Oh yeah, it hear it and you're like, "Oh yeah, it probably is like not healthy." And and probably is like not healthy." And and probably is like not healthy." And and and especially when you're that age, and especially when you're that age, and especially when you're that age, you're just so impressionable in like you're just so impressionable in like you're just so impressionable in like the worst ways and the best ways because the worst ways and the best ways because the worst ways and the best ways because you're trying to find your way you're trying to find your way you're trying to find your way >> in the world. Um, you know, my my my >> in the world. Um, you know, my my my >> in the world. Um, you know, my my my daughter came home from from church this daughter came home from from church this daughter came home from from church this past weekend and um she I guess she was past weekend and um she I guess she was past weekend and um she I guess she was having a shower with her mother like having a shower with her mother like having a shower with her mother like washing her hand hair and she was like, washing her hand hair and she was like, washing her hand hair and she was like, "Mom, can I invite Jesus into my heart "Mom, can I invite Jesus into my heart "Mom, can I invite Jesus into my heart in the shower and nothing prompted that

in the shower and nothing prompted that in the shower and nothing prompted that from her except presumably whatever from her except presumably whatever from her except presumably whatever happened at church that day." happened at church that day." happened at church that day." >> And then she gets out of out of the >> And then she gets out of out of the >> And then she gets out of out of the shower, she's like, "Um, what what age shower, she's like, "Um, what what age shower, she's like, "Um, what what age did you guys get baptized?" And my wife did you guys get baptized?" And my wife did you guys get baptized?" And my wife and I were like, "I think we were pretty and I were like, "I think we were pretty and I were like, "I think we were pretty close to your age." And she was like, close to your age." And she was like, close to your age." And she was like, "Were you younger?" And we were like, "Were you younger?" And we were like, "Were you younger?" And we were like, "We think so." And she was like, "Ah, I "We think so." And she was like, "Ah, I "We think so." And she was like, "Ah, I wanted to beat you." wanted to beat you." wanted to beat you." >> Her father's daughter. Um, >> Her father's daughter. Um, >> Her father's daughter. Um, >> but like a positive church experience >> but like a positive church experience >> but like a positive church experience like is affecting her worldview. like is affecting her worldview. like is affecting her worldview. >> And so if she hears these things in >> And so if she hears these things in >> And so if she hears these things in junior youth, if she hears these things junior youth, if she hears these things junior youth, if she hears these things eventually in youth group talking about eventually in youth group talking about eventually in youth group talking about digital hygiene, talking about digital hygiene, talking about digital hygiene, talking about artificial intelligence hygiene, and to artificial intelligence hygiene, and to artificial intelligence hygiene, and to get back to that, there's four points get back to that, there's four points get back to that, there's four points here. We talked never let AI be your here. We talked never let AI be your here. We talked never let AI be your only voice. Protect your inner life. only voice. Protect your inner life. only voice. Protect your inner life. What was the third one? Watch for What was the third one? Watch for What was the third one? Watch for substitution. If you start to notice substitution. If you start to notice substitution. If you start to notice you're turning to AI more than opening you're turning to AI more than opening you're turning to AI more than opening your Bible, more than talking to God, your Bible, more than talking to God, your Bible, more than talking to God, more than calling a trusted friend or a more than calling a trusted friend or a more than calling a trusted friend or a mentor, like let that be the warning mentor, like let that be the warning mentor, like let that be the warning sign that okay, one of these things is sign that okay, one of these things is sign that okay, one of these things is starting to take the place.

starting to take the place. starting to take the place. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what is that? That's idolatry. >> And what is that? That's idolatry. >> And what is that? That's idolatry. >> It is entering into a part of my life >> It is entering into a part of my life >> It is entering into a part of my life and it is and it is and it is >> putting itself on a pedestal. I am >> putting itself on a pedestal. I am >> putting itself on a pedestal. I am allowing it to be put on a pedestal allowing it to be put on a pedestal allowing it to be put on a pedestal where it does not belong. It is not a where it does not belong. It is not a where it does not belong. It is not a deity. It cannot be there. It is not a deity. It cannot be there. It is not a deity. It cannot be there. It is not a friend. It is not a parent. It is not a friend. It is not a parent. It is not a friend. It is not a parent. It is not a youth pastor. It does not belong here. youth pastor. It does not belong here. youth pastor. It does not belong here. It but that's how it happens, right? It but that's how it happens, right? It but that's how it happens, right? Like it just kind of creeps in there. Like it just kind of creeps in there. Like it just kind of creeps in there. And then the final part is stay in And then the final part is stay in And then the final part is stay in community. The antidote to AI mediated community. The antidote to AI mediated community. The antidote to AI mediated spirituality is embodied community. spirituality is embodied community. spirituality is embodied community. Prioritize being physically present with Prioritize being physically present with Prioritize being physically present with other believers. I've got a other believers. I've got a other believers. I've got a compassionate word for pastors, compassionate word for pastors, compassionate word for pastors, teachers, leaders, parents, any adult teachers, leaders, parents, any adult teachers, leaders, parents, any adult frankly who's listening to the show who frankly who's listening to the show who frankly who's listening to the show who finds himself amongst the 12% the the finds himself amongst the 12% the the finds himself amongst the 12% the the the stat we referenced earlier. Only 12% the stat we referenced earlier. Only 12% the stat we referenced earlier. Only 12% of pastors feel comfortable teaching on of pastors feel comfortable teaching on of pastors feel comfortable teaching on it. I offer this compassionate word it. I offer this compassionate word it. I offer this compassionate word because I know that feeling. I have because I know that feeling. I have because I know that feeling. I have regrets, pastoral regrets of how I have regrets, pastoral regrets of how I have regrets, pastoral regrets of how I have responded to people in my faith responded to people in my faith responded to people in my faith community when talking about this community when talking about this community when talking about this technology in particular. I can think of technology in particular. I can think of technology in particular. I can think of one moment. It was early in this kind of one moment. It was early in this kind of one moment. It was early in this kind of AI boom. So maybe two years ago, someone AI boom. So maybe two years ago, someone AI boom. So maybe two years ago, someone came up to me in the sanctuary. He said, came up to me in the sanctuary. He said, came up to me in the sanctuary. He said, "Pastor Alexander, check this out." And "Pastor Alexander, check this out." And "Pastor Alexander, check this out." And it was one of those like chat bots where it was one of those like chat bots where it was one of those like chat bots where you could like talk to the Apostle Paul you could like talk to the Apostle Paul you could like talk to the Apostle Paul or talk to Jesus, or talk to Jesus, or talk to Jesus, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> And I was so like kind of flustered. >> And I was so like kind of flustered. >> And I was so like kind of flustered. Honestly, call back to earlier in our Honestly, call back to earlier in our Honestly, call back to earlier in our conversation. I was pretty anxious about conversation. I was pretty anxious about conversation. I was pretty anxious about I was I felt anxiety seeing that that I I was I felt anxiety seeing that that I I was I felt anxiety seeing that that I didn't show up in the way that I wish I didn't show up in the way that I wish I didn't show up in the way that I wish I would have. would have. would have. >> I I I had no pastoral response for that. >> I I I had no pastoral response for that. >> I I I had no pastoral response for that. I I don't remember what I said, but it I I don't remember what I said, but it I I don't remember what I said, but it was probably to some effect of like, oh, was probably to some effect of like, oh, was probably to some effect of like, oh, that's super cool or whatever. that's super cool or whatever. that's super cool or whatever. >> And I immediately after that service, >> And I immediately after that service, >> And I immediately after that service, after that that church service that day, after that that church service that day, after that that church service that day, I went home feeling like, well, okay, I I went home feeling like, well, okay, I I went home feeling like, well, okay, I know that's not super cool. Like, I know that's not super cool. Like, I know that's not super cool. Like, I believe that's not super cool, but like believe that's not super cool, but like believe that's not super cool, but like why did I how did I fumble it so bad why did I how did I fumble it so bad why did I how did I fumble it so bad there? And what's happening is these there? And what's happening is these there? And what's happening is these tools, this technology, I mean, I don't tools, this technology, I mean, I don't tools, this technology, I mean, I don't know how much longer we can open the know how much longer we can open the know how much longer we can open the show with the biggest communication show with the biggest communication show with the biggest communication shift in the last 500 years because shift in the last 500 years because shift in the last 500 years because we're living through a new one right we're living through a new one right we're living through a new one right here, right now. And it's evolving so here, right now. And it's evolving so here, right now. And it's evolving so quickly that of course there's only 12% quickly that of course there's only 12% quickly that of course there's only 12% of us that feel confident or comfortable of us that feel confident or comfortable of us that feel confident or comfortable teaching on it because what I say teaching on it because what I say teaching on it because what I say tomorrow is or what I say today is not tomorrow is or what I say today is not tomorrow is or what I say today is not going to be true tomorrow, very likely. going to be true tomorrow, very likely. going to be true tomorrow, very likely. We talk about these models in the office We talk about these models in the office We talk about these models in the office all the time about how yeah, last week all the time about how yeah, last week all the time about how yeah, last week it couldn't do this and this week it can it couldn't do this and this week it can it couldn't do this and this week it can do more than this. So no wonder we don't do more than this. So no wonder we don't do more than this. So no wonder we don't feel comfortable because we don't know feel comfortable because we don't know feel comfortable because we don't know anything. Um but I can say that as I anything. Um but I can say that as I anything. Um but I can say that as I have admitted re kind of reckoned with have admitted re kind of reckoned with have admitted re kind of reckoned with the state of things, admitted what is the state of things, admitted what is the state of things, admitted what is happening, I have grown in my ability to happening, I have grown in my ability to happening, I have grown in my ability to pastorally respond to these things.

pastorally respond to these things. pastorally respond to these things. Although I still don't know very much, I Although I still don't know very much, I Although I still don't know very much, I know enough now to when a few weeks ago know enough now to when a few weeks ago know enough now to when a few weeks ago someone in our community comes to me and someone in our community comes to me and someone in our community comes to me and says, "Hey, um they talked to me about says, "Hey, um they talked to me about says, "Hey, um they talked to me about their anxiety. I'm just really their anxiety. I'm just really their anxiety. I'm just really struggling with anxiety struggling with anxiety struggling with anxiety and then they said, uh, Chad gave me and then they said, uh, Chad gave me and then they said, uh, Chad gave me these ideas to to, you know, grapple these ideas to to, you know, grapple these ideas to to, you know, grapple with my anxiety. with my anxiety. with my anxiety. >> Hey, at least they came to a pastor and >> Hey, at least they came to a pastor and >> Hey, at least they came to a pastor and like like like >> they did what you say. Yeah. Not the >> they did what you say. Yeah. Not the >> they did what you say. Yeah. Not the only source. Um, and I was able to meet only source. Um, and I was able to meet only source. Um, and I was able to meet that person without a with a completely that person without a with a completely that person without a with a completely I think non- anxious presence, right? I think non- anxious presence, right? I think non- anxious presence, right? >> And meet them, have understanding >> And meet them, have understanding >> And meet them, have understanding knowing that they work in an industry knowing that they work in an industry knowing that they work in an industry where they use AI in their work every where they use AI in their work every where they use AI in their work every day. So, I acknowledge that. Hey, yeah, day. So, I acknowledge that. Hey, yeah, day. So, I acknowledge that. Hey, yeah, I know you're using these tools, but I know you're using these tools, but I know you're using these tools, but like this anxiety you're feeling, let's like this anxiety you're feeling, let's like this anxiety you're feeling, let's take that to God in prayer. There's take that to God in prayer. There's take that to God in prayer. There's answers for this. There's a 23rd psalm answers for this. There's a 23rd psalm answers for this. There's a 23rd psalm for this. for this. for this. >> Um, and I was able to to pastor that >> Um, and I was able to to pastor that >> Um, and I was able to to pastor that person through that experience. Um, so person through that experience. Um, so person through that experience. Um, so if we when we a acknowledge the state of if we when we a acknowledge the state of if we when we a acknowledge the state of things, the cultural state of things and things, the cultural state of things and things, the cultural state of things and again compassion because I know that again compassion because I know that again compassion because I know that most pastors are over 55. So not a lot most pastors are over 55. So not a lot most pastors are over 55. So not a lot of if most of them are probably not as of if most of them are probably not as of if most of them are probably not as deep into these tools or maybe have deep into these tools or maybe have deep into these tools or maybe have never touched them like my dad, right?

never touched them like my dad, right? never touched them like my dad, right? >> Um, so we don't know what we don't know, >> Um, so we don't know what we don't know, >> Um, so we don't know what we don't know, but acknowledging that this is but acknowledging that this is but acknowledging that this is happening. This is the cultural moment happening. This is the cultural moment happening. This is the cultural moment we're living through. This is the we're living through. This is the we're living through. This is the communication shift we're living communication shift we're living communication shift we're living through. And being willing to grapple through. And being willing to grapple through. And being willing to grapple with these statistics and the reality of with these statistics and the reality of with these statistics and the reality of them, I think we'll grow in our pastoral them, I think we'll grow in our pastoral them, I think we'll grow in our pastoral ability to respond to whatever is ability to respond to whatever is ability to respond to whatever is presented to us in our Christian presented to us in our Christian presented to us in our Christian communities. communities. communities. >> Oh man. Like there's this strange >> Oh man. Like there's this strange >> Oh man. Like there's this strange asymmetry to using these tools. I'm just asymmetry to using these tools. I'm just asymmetry to using these tools. I'm just going to say it now. Asymmetry is the going to say it now. Asymmetry is the going to say it now. Asymmetry is the word that I will be overusing. word that I will be overusing. word that I will be overusing. >> It's the word of the day for sure today. >> It's the word of the day for sure today. >> It's the word of the day for sure today. >> Yes. Irrespective is in the past. >> Yes. Irrespective is in the past. >> Yes. Irrespective is in the past. Asymmetry is the one that's new. Uh I am Asymmetry is the one that's new. Uh I am Asymmetry is the one that's new. Uh I am spending a lot of time in the AI tools spending a lot of time in the AI tools spending a lot of time in the AI tools almost exclusively in code or in co-work almost exclusively in code or in co-work almost exclusively in code or in co-work mostly code. And what what what's so mostly code. And what what what's so mostly code. And what what what's so transformative about code is that I transformative about code is that I transformative about code is that I don't have to write the code. I can don't have to write the code. I can don't have to write the code. I can basically just like supervise in the way basically just like supervise in the way basically just like supervise in the way that I have supervised the development that I have supervised the development that I have supervised the development of products at ProChurch Tools and of products at ProChurch Tools and of products at ProChurch Tools and websites and designs for for more than a websites and designs for for more than a websites and designs for for more than a decade. But I can iterate and bring into decade. But I can iterate and bring into decade. But I can iterate and bring into existence at this like speed that is existence at this like speed that is existence at this like speed that is hard to fathom at times. The asymmetry hard to fathom at times. The asymmetry hard to fathom at times. The asymmetry between that where it feels like I have between that where it feels like I have between that where it feels like I have this like magic genie and I can say this like magic genie and I can say this like magic genie and I can say genie I would like to invent this and genie I would like to invent this and genie I would like to invent this and sure if you can think it we can code it sure if you can think it we can code it sure if you can think it we can code it which is like a miracle. And then I'll which is like a miracle. And then I'll which is like a miracle. And then I'll talk to a chatbot talk to a chatbot talk to a chatbot and it will say the stupidest thing I've

and it will say the stupidest thing I've and it will say the stupidest thing I've ever heard that is so transparently ever heard that is so transparently ever heard that is so transparently hollow, false, poorly thought through on hollow, false, poorly thought through on hollow, false, poorly thought through on like the smartest mo. It's it's it's like the smartest mo. It's it's it's like the smartest mo. It's it's it's it's frankly disorienting about how it's frankly disorienting about how it's frankly disorienting about how those two things can exist. And maybe if those two things can exist. And maybe if those two things can exist. And maybe if you're listening and you're a developer, you're listening and you're a developer, you're listening and you're a developer, you're like, "Yeah, well, I'm pretty you're like, "Yeah, well, I'm pretty you're like, "Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure if we looked behind the scenes of sure if we looked behind the scenes of sure if we looked behind the scenes of that code, we would find pretty much the that code, we would find pretty much the that code, we would find pretty much the same thing." And perhaps that is true. same thing." And perhaps that is true. same thing." And perhaps that is true. But the reality behind all of this is But the reality behind all of this is But the reality behind all of this is when you are in community with other when you are in community with other when you are in community with other people people people that truly is the antidote for this that truly is the antidote for this that truly is the antidote for this because what happens is if you are because what happens is if you are because what happens is if you are talking with the chatbot it becomes this talking with the chatbot it becomes this talking with the chatbot it becomes this like cyclical thing where you just keep like cyclical thing where you just keep like cyclical thing where you just keep going back to it and back to it and it going back to it and back to it and it going back to it and back to it and it just keeps getting elevated higher and just keeps getting elevated higher and just keeps getting elevated higher and higher into parts of your life idolatry higher into parts of your life idolatry higher into parts of your life idolatry where it doesn't belong. if you are not where it doesn't belong. if you are not where it doesn't belong. if you are not with other people who will be like it's with other people who will be like it's with other people who will be like it's kind of weird you know to make you go oh kind of weird you know to make you go oh kind of weird you know to make you go oh is it oh I never really thought about is it oh I never really thought about is it oh I never really thought about that if nothing else than just that like that if nothing else than just that like that if nothing else than just that like Alex and I have very different like Alex and I have very different like Alex and I have very different like permissible levels of use for AI permissible levels of use for AI permissible levels of use for AI and like just being near him is an and like just being near him is an and like just being near him is an important like hedge for me because then important like hedge for me because then important like hedge for me because then he'll be like kind of weird man and I'll he'll be like kind of weird man and I'll he'll be like kind of weird man and I'll be like, "Huh, I guess I didn't be like, "Huh, I guess I didn't be like, "Huh, I guess I didn't interesting." And like without that, I'm interesting." And like without that, I'm interesting." And like without that, I'm just kind of like running on my own and just kind of like running on my own and just kind of like running on my own and doing my own thing. And that's maybe doing my own thing. And that's maybe doing my own thing. And that's maybe that's why the Bible talks about, you that's why the Bible talks about, you that's why the Bible talks about, you know, community being so important, know, community being so important, know, community being so important, right? Like this is its new context right? Like this is its new context right? Like this is its new context where it's like this new threat to like

where it's like this new threat to like where it's like this new threat to like the souls um that each one of us has the souls um that each one of us has the souls um that each one of us has >> because I think like you just start like >> because I think like you just start like >> because I think like you just start like we all know how bad isolation is, right? we all know how bad isolation is, right? we all know how bad isolation is, right? Like there's a reason why the worst type Like there's a reason why the worst type Like there's a reason why the worst type of imprisonment is like being put in of imprisonment is like being put in of imprisonment is like being put in like the box. like the box. like the box. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And people just go crazy. >> And people just go crazy. >> And people just go crazy. >> Now imagine that's it. But you're >> Now imagine that's it. But you're >> Now imagine that's it. But you're talking to a robot without sentience, talking to a robot without sentience, talking to a robot without sentience, but it gives the aura of sentience. It's but it gives the aura of sentience. It's but it gives the aura of sentience. It's a lie. a lie. a lie. And like so much of And like so much of And like so much of the evil in scripture as it's described the evil in scripture as it's described the evil in scripture as it's described is like it's a masquerade. It's a is like it's a masquerade. It's a is like it's a masquerade. It's a facade. It's pretending to be something facade. It's pretending to be something facade. It's pretending to be something that it's truly not. And when you that it's truly not. And when you that it's truly not. And when you substitute what is false for what is substitute what is false for what is substitute what is false for what is true, that is like, you know, the true, that is like, you know, the true, that is like, you know, the beginning of your own damnation because beginning of your own damnation because beginning of your own damnation because you've like accepted it's the Garden of you've like accepted it's the Garden of you've like accepted it's the Garden of Eden all over again. Anyway, hey, we're Eden all over again. Anyway, hey, we're Eden all over again. Anyway, hey, we're we're we're you know, it we're we're you know, it we're we're you know, it >> is. Well, and there's your first uh >> is. Well, and there's your first uh >> is. Well, and there's your first uh sermon on addressing the living sermon on addressing the living sermon on addressing the living faithfully as a Christian in a digital faithfully as a Christian in a digital faithfully as a Christian in a digital age. age. age. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> there you go. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> Very good. Well, thank you for your >> Very good. Well, thank you for your >> Very good. Well, thank you for your time, attention, and trust. We will be time, attention, and trust. We will be time, attention, and trust. We will be back as always next Wednesday.

back as always next Wednesday. back as always next Wednesday. >> How many times did you plan on saying >> How many times did you plan on saying >> How many times did you plan on saying asymmetry today? asymmetry today? asymmetry today? >> Zero. And what was it? Well, >> Zero. And what was it? Well, >> Zero. And what was it? Well, >> it was Claude said it. >> it was Claude said it. >> it was Claude said it. >> No, no, no, no, no. I It was me. No, no, >> No, no, no, no, no. I It was me. No, no, >> No, no, no, no, no. I It was me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't. No. What no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't. No. What no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't. No. What was happening was I kept trying to was happening was I kept trying to was happening was I kept trying to describe the payout and I was like, describe the payout and I was like, describe the payout and I was like, there's a word for this. It's the there's a word for this. It's the there's a word for this. It's the perfect word. And I couldn't get it. And perfect word. And I couldn't get it. And perfect word. And I couldn't get it. And then when I got it, I was so happy that then when I got it, I was so happy that then when I got it, I was so happy that I got it. I was like, I'm going to use I got it. I was like, I'm going to use I got it. I was like, I'm going to use this word way too much because this word way too much because this word way too much because I was happy that I found