Unfiltered Conversation With Former Life.Church Photographer

today on the show we're joined by a today on the show we're joined by a former Life Church photographer we ask former Life Church photographer we ask former Life Church photographer we ask him about preparing shot lists his him about preparing shot lists his him about preparing shot lists his favorite gear and even photographer favorite gear and even photographer favorite gear and even photographer etiquette we also shared our best ideas etiquette we also shared our best ideas etiquette we also shared our best ideas for capturing Church baptisms without for capturing Church baptisms without for capturing Church baptisms without destroying our cameras and what you're destroying our cameras and what you're destroying our cameras and what you're probably thinking is correct the best probably thinking is correct the best probably thinking is correct the best answer is a fishtech so let's dive answer is a fishtech so let's dive answer is a fishtech so let's dive in well hey there and welcome to the pro in well hey there and welcome to the pro in well hey there and welcome to the pro Church tools show we're here to help you Church tools show we're here to help you Church tools show we're here to help you in your church navigate the biggest in your church navigate the biggest in your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm communication shift in 500 years I'm Brady sheer your host I'm joining as Brady sheer your host I'm joining as Brady sheer your host I'm joining as always by my co-host it's Alex hello always by my co-host it's Alex hello always by my co-host it's Alex hello hello and we're also joined by Benjamin hello and we're also joined by Benjamin hello and we're also joined by Benjamin sud Benjamin welcome to the show well sud Benjamin welcome to the show well sud Benjamin welcome to the show well thanks for having me little context thanks for having me little context thanks for having me little context Benjamin and I first got acquainted when Benjamin and I first got acquainted when Benjamin and I first got acquainted when we launched uh a new part of social we launched uh a new part of social we launched uh a new part of social sermons.com portraits at the beginning sermons.com portraits at the beginning sermons.com portraits at the beginning of the year so we launched this new of the year so we launched this new of the year so we launched this new service where we were going to send service where we were going to send service where we were going to send photographers to churches and they were photographers to churches and they were photographers to churches and they were going to capture a photo shoot on a going to capture a photo shoot on a going to capture a photo shoot on a Sunday morning and then we would use Sunday morning and then we would use Sunday morning and then we would use those photos to turn it into social those photos to turn it into social those photos to turn it into social media content and the very first that we media content and the very first that we media content and the very first that we did uh Benjamin was the one that went did uh Benjamin was the one that went did uh Benjamin was the one that went out there cuz it was actually a pilot out there cuz it was actually a pilot out there cuz it was actually a pilot project Church they they hadn't even project Church they they hadn't even project Church they they hadn't even officially signed up yet but you know officially signed up yet but you know officially signed up yet but you know how you know how you know it went well how you know how you know it went well how you know how you know it went well that church who we did it for free liked that church who we did it for free liked that church who we did it for free liked it so much they're like can we pay you it so much they're like can we pay you it so much they're like can we pay you once we launched it so they converted once we launched it so they converted once we launched it so they converted amazing that wasn't even the plan I told amazing that wasn't even the plan I told amazing that wasn't even the plan I told him not to convert I said don't convert him not to convert I said don't convert him not to convert I said don't convert uh but the photos were so great and then uh but the photos were so great and then uh but the photos were so great and then so then I'm looking at these and so then I'm looking at these and so then I'm looking at these and Benjamin was doing some things in the Benjamin was doing some things in the Benjamin was doing some things in the photos and I was like I don't I don't photos and I was like I don't I don't photos and I was like I don't I don't really understand what's happening here really understand what's happening here really understand what's happening here and and we'll put them on the screen if and and we'll put them on the screen if and and we'll put them on the screen if you're watching on the YouTube uh this you're watching on the YouTube uh this you're watching on the YouTube uh this is going to be a useful conversation is going to be a useful conversation is going to be a useful conversation though even if you are just listening

though even if you are just listening though even if you are just listening we're going to do another episode with we're going to do another episode with we're going to do another episode with Benjamin in a couple of weeks where he's Benjamin in a couple of weeks where he's Benjamin in a couple of weeks where he's going to share his screen live on the going to share his screen live on the going to share his screen live on the call and we're going to be in Lightroom call and we're going to be in Lightroom call and we're going to be in Lightroom with him and we're going to say okay how with him and we're going to say okay how with him and we're going to say okay how do you make the photo go from there to do you make the photo go from there to do you make the photo go from there to there and he's going to walk through there and he's going to walk through there and he's going to walk through exactly what he's doing so that's in a exactly what he's doing so that's in a exactly what he's doing so that's in a couple of weeks if you've ever not couple of weeks if you've ever not couple of weeks if you've ever not watched the episode before if you're a watched the episode before if you're a watched the episode before if you're a listener of podcast the way that I am listener of podcast the way that I am listener of podcast the way that I am the way that Alex is half the time yeah the way that Alex is half the time yeah the way that Alex is half the time yeah uh you might want to watch that one this uh you might want to watch that one this uh you might want to watch that one this one is going to be teaching strategy one is going to be teaching strategy one is going to be teaching strategy tips and all of that so so Benjamin tips and all of that so so Benjamin tips and all of that so so Benjamin let's start right here you're going to a let's start right here you're going to a let's start right here you're going to a church for the first time and you church for the first time and you church for the first time and you haven't been there or you're familiar haven't been there or you're familiar haven't been there or you're familiar with the church but you're capturing with the church but you're capturing with the church but you're capturing them for the first time and you're them for the first time and you're them for the first time and you're assembling a shot list what goes through assembling a shot list what goes through assembling a shot list what goes through your mind what are you doing right off your mind what are you doing right off your mind what are you doing right off the bat yeah so when it comes to shot the bat yeah so when it comes to shot the bat yeah so when it comes to shot lists um and I'm approaching the lists um and I'm approaching the lists um and I'm approaching the situation I'm unfamiliar with what I'm situation I'm unfamiliar with what I'm situation I'm unfamiliar with what I'm uh looking at like it's all new to me uh uh looking at like it's all new to me uh uh looking at like it's all new to me uh the first thing I do is I definitely the first thing I do is I definitely the first thing I do is I definitely talk to my contact I want to make sure talk to my contact I want to make sure talk to my contact I want to make sure like is there anything special that you like is there anything special that you like is there anything special that you really want to highlight about your really want to highlight about your really want to highlight about your church like is it you have an astounding church like is it you have an astounding church like is it you have an astounding youth kids Young Adult Ministry you you youth kids Young Adult Ministry you you youth kids Young Adult Ministry you you name it I want to be there make sure I name it I want to be there make sure I name it I want to be there make sure I can highlight that get that uh for them can highlight that get that uh for them can highlight that get that uh for them those are going to be my top priorities those are going to be my top priorities those are going to be my top priorities um they have a guest speaker or there's um they have a guest speaker or there's um they have a guest speaker or there's a maybe it's a speaker who doesn't isn't a maybe it's a speaker who doesn't isn't a maybe it's a speaker who doesn't isn't on stage too often I want to make sure I on stage too often I want to make sure I on stage too often I want to make sure I can get that for them if that is a top can get that for them if that is a top can get that for them if that is a top priority so your first bet is build a priority so your first bet is build a priority so your first bet is build a priority list with your client or your priority list with your client or your priority list with your client or your church and making sure that you are able church and making sure that you are able church and making sure that you are able to get that um one of the things I do

to get that um one of the things I do to get that um one of the things I do ask a lot is what are your mus haves ask a lot is what are your mus haves ask a lot is what are your mus haves like if there's anything that you needed like if there's anything that you needed like if there's anything that you needed to have out of this time together what to have out of this time together what to have out of this time together what can I make sure that I have the most for can I make sure that I have the most for can I make sure that I have the most for you um and lots of times uh in this case you um and lots of times uh in this case you um and lots of times uh in this case with uh the church I photographed uh with uh the church I photographed uh with uh the church I photographed uh they they're like oh just we just want they they're like oh just we just want they they're like oh just we just want some general stuff just get around like some general stuff just get around like some general stuff just get around like just capture as much as you can it's just capture as much as you can it's just capture as much as you can it's like okay it's great it gives me free like okay it's great it gives me free like okay it's great it gives me free ram my can do build my own shot list ram my can do build my own shot list ram my can do build my own shot list which I'll get in to it in a little bit which I'll get in to it in a little bit which I'll get in to it in a little bit of how I do that but yes top priority of how I do that but yes top priority of how I do that but yes top priority what do they want what are the needs what do they want what are the needs what do they want what are the needs that they're feeling do they have any that they're feeling do they have any that they're feeling do they have any pushes that they're trying to do uh for pushes that they're trying to do uh for pushes that they're trying to do uh for their own um community and trying to their own um community and trying to their own um community and trying to highlight that like increase in highlight that like increase in highlight that like increase in volunteerism hey we're going to focus on volunteerism hey we're going to focus on volunteerism hey we're going to focus on capturing volunteers and that's going to capturing volunteers and that's going to capturing volunteers and that's going to be where you spend a lot of your day be where you spend a lot of your day be where you spend a lot of your day hanging out by the doors the coffee shop hanging out by the doors the coffee shop hanging out by the doors the coffee shop ushers you name it whatever it is uh you ushers you name it whatever it is uh you ushers you name it whatever it is uh you just try to serve their needs first I just try to serve their needs first I just try to serve their needs first I can imagine that this might be a can imagine that this might be a can imagine that this might be a struggle for for pastors in a sense struggle for for pastors in a sense struggle for for pastors in a sense because a pastor might be like hey I because a pastor might be like hey I because a pastor might be like hey I think photography is important but like think photography is important but like think photography is important but like I'm not a photographer I I I I preach I'm not a photographer I I I I preach I'm not a photographer I I I I preach and I do pastoral care I have no idea and I do pastoral care I have no idea and I do pastoral care I have no idea even how to begin answering that even how to begin answering that even how to begin answering that question it was funny when Benjamin and question it was funny when Benjamin and question it was funny when Benjamin and I first spoke we're like man like what I first spoke we're like man like what I first spoke we're like man like what was your background asked me he's like was your background asked me he's like was your background asked me he's like well you know I I used to be a well you know I I used to be a well you know I I used to be a photographer at Life Church and I was photographer at Life Church and I was photographer at Life Church and I was like oh okay so so that's you have some like oh okay so so that's you have some like oh okay so so that's you have some good experience here I can see all that good experience here I can see all that good experience here I can see all that skill translating in these images he's skill translating in these images he's skill translating in these images he's like hey did you check out my portfolio like hey did you check out my portfolio like hey did you check out my portfolio and I was like no no he's like here's my and I was like no no he's like here's my and I was like no no he's like here's my Instagram here's my website I was like Instagram here's my website I was like Instagram here's my website I was like oh my gosh he's like wow uh incredibly

oh my gosh he's like wow uh incredibly oh my gosh he's like wow uh incredibly talented so in your broad experience if talented so in your broad experience if talented so in your broad experience if a pastor was like I don't even know like a pastor was like I don't even know like a pastor was like I don't even know like what's a good thing to capture and you what's a good thing to capture and you what's a good thing to capture and you were going to set the pace set the were going to set the pace set the were going to set the pace set the agenda what would you do yeah so the agenda what would you do yeah so the agenda what would you do yeah so the first thing um I would ask them is when first thing um I would ask them is when first thing um I would ask them is when you're inviting somebody to your church you're inviting somebody to your church you're inviting somebody to your church what are you telling them about your what are you telling them about your what are you telling them about your church um he like oh we have great church um he like oh we have great church um he like oh we have great worship and the community is really worship and the community is really worship and the community is really strong you know people like to stick strong you know people like to stick strong you know people like to stick around after church and hang out that's around after church and hang out that's around after church and hang out that's the kind of stuff then that I can start the kind of stuff then that I can start the kind of stuff then that I can start building in my mind okay I want to hit building in my mind okay I want to hit building in my mind okay I want to hit worship for them I want to make sure I'm worship for them I want to make sure I'm worship for them I want to make sure I'm getting good content of that and making getting good content of that and making getting good content of that and making it feel really exciting and really feel it feel really exciting and really feel it feel really exciting and really feel the emotion of the moment that is the emotion of the moment that is the emotion of the moment that is worshiping in their Sanctuary or worshiping in their Sanctuary or worshiping in their Sanctuary or wherever they do it some churches are wherever they do it some churches are wherever they do it some churches are outside they have a nice Pavilion that outside they have a nice Pavilion that outside they have a nice Pavilion that they do it and like wherever that is they do it and like wherever that is they do it and like wherever that is like really capturing that energy and like really capturing that energy and like really capturing that energy and that emotion um and it's like oh people that emotion um and it's like oh people that emotion um and it's like oh people hang out in the lobby like they really hang out in the lobby like they really hang out in the lobby like they really love spending time in small groups um love spending time in small groups um love spending time in small groups um they they they stay like 30 minutes they they they stay like 30 minutes they they they stay like 30 minutes after and just hang out uh I try to after and just hang out uh I try to after and just hang out uh I try to capture like that would help inform that capture like that would help inform that capture like that would help inform that so I would ask the pastor well what are so I would ask the pastor well what are so I would ask the pastor well what are the things you tell people about your the things you tell people about your the things you tell people about your church of why they should go and church of why they should go and church of why they should go and hopefully they have a good answer to hopefully they have a good answer to hopefully they have a good answer to that that uh can really set them apart that that uh can really set them apart that that uh can really set them apart and really build a unique experience to and really build a unique experience to and really build a unique experience to um somebody because the photography um somebody because the photography um somebody because the photography video anything that we create it's a video anything that we create it's a video anything that we create it's a digital invite and that's what's so digital invite and that's what's so digital invite and that's what's so incredible about it is um photography incredible about it is um photography incredible about it is um photography has a way in a moment to show somebody has a way in a moment to show somebody has a way in a moment to show somebody what it's like to attend your church what it's like to attend your church what it's like to attend your church um people are like looking at like what um people are like looking at like what um people are like looking at like what are people wearing what is the building

are people wearing what is the building are people wearing what is the building look like and does it look like people look like and does it look like people look like and does it look like people are having a good time or are they are having a good time or are they are having a good time or are they having fun or they standoffish like having fun or they standoffish like having fun or they standoffish like people can tell that from an image people can tell that from an image people can tell that from an image people can see that and what you're people can see that and what you're people can see that and what you're putting out so it's it's the same thing putting out so it's it's the same thing putting out so it's it's the same thing like photography is your digital invite like photography is your digital invite like photography is your digital invite so what you want to tell people to come so what you want to tell people to come so what you want to tell people to come to your church is exactly what you to your church is exactly what you to your church is exactly what you should be telling me to be able to start should be telling me to be able to start should be telling me to be able to start capturing and making sure to represent capturing and making sure to represent capturing and making sure to represent you well that's so good Benjamin um you you well that's so good Benjamin um you you well that's so good Benjamin um you can I go ahead okay I just want to make can I go ahead okay I just want to make can I go ahead okay I just want to make sure I emphasize what he did there was sure I emphasize what he did there was sure I emphasize what he did there was so profound because okay this is what so profound because okay this is what so profound because okay this is what happens in the world of creatives and happens in the world of creatives and happens in the world of creatives and this is what I was just doing and he was this is what I was just doing and he was this is what I was just doing and he was like let me intercept you and show you like let me intercept you and show you like let me intercept you and show you what you should actually do I asked him what you should actually do I asked him what you should actually do I asked him what should the shot list be and he gave what should the shot list be and he gave what should the shot list be and he gave the it depends answer what does the the it depends answer what does the the it depends answer what does the church want to which I said no Benjamin church want to which I said no Benjamin church want to which I said no Benjamin that's not the answer I'm looking for that's not the answer I'm looking for that's not the answer I'm looking for tell me what you would do because that's tell me what you would do because that's tell me what you would do because that's what I would do I would be like well what I would do I would be like well what I would do I would be like well look I have a lot of experience here look I have a lot of experience here look I have a lot of experience here trust me this is what works for most trust me this is what works for most trust me this is what works for most churches that would be such an easy churches that would be such an easy churches that would be such an easy place to jump to when you have that place to jump to when you have that place to jump to when you have that level of experience instead he's like level of experience instead he's like level of experience instead he's like I'm going to ask a question to reveal I'm going to ask a question to reveal I'm going to ask a question to reveal the answer that only this pastor can the answer that only this pastor can the answer that only this pastor can give despite him not having the give despite him not having the give despite him not having the expertise to even know how to answer the expertise to even know how to answer the expertise to even know how to answer the question so like this is what you only question so like this is what you only question so like this is what you only get from years of experience in so many get from years of experience in so many get from years of experience in so many different contexts and he's done work different contexts and he's done work different contexts and he's done work with Nos and nonprofits like an with Nos and nonprofits like an with Nos and nonprofits like an editorial work and aerial work and like editorial work and aerial work and like editorial work and aerial work and like met Metropolitan work met Metropolitan work met Metropolitan work instead of just inserting his knowledge instead of just inserting his knowledge instead of just inserting his knowledge and in a way like jumping over the lead and in a way like jumping over the lead and in a way like jumping over the lead pastor and saying just let me do it he's

pastor and saying just let me do it he's pastor and saying just let me do it he's like I'm going to ask you a question like I'm going to ask you a question like I'm going to ask you a question that will tap into the knowledge that that will tap into the knowledge that that will tap into the knowledge that only you have that will allow you to only you have that will allow you to only you have that will allow you to answer the question that you think is answer the question that you think is answer the question that you think is unanswerable and that's so like that's unanswerable and that's so like that's unanswerable and that's so like that's the best expression of working with the best expression of working with the best expression of working with creatives is the relational dynamic creatives is the relational dynamic creatives is the relational dynamic because like for so many of us even if because like for so many of us even if because like for so many of us even if if folks who are listening aren't if folks who are listening aren't if folks who are listening aren't photographers themselves a lot of us photographers themselves a lot of us photographers themselves a lot of us have been photographed in one in a have been photographed in one in a have been photographed in one in a setting like this whether it's family setting like this whether it's family setting like this whether it's family photos or you just had a baby and you're photos or you just had a baby and you're photos or you just had a baby and you're having newborn photos or if you're in a having newborn photos or if you're in a having newborn photos or if you're in a wedding okay wedding is a perfect wedding okay wedding is a perfect wedding okay wedding is a perfect example and you can feel when there's example and you can feel when there's example and you can feel when there's little to no relational dynamic between little to no relational dynamic between little to no relational dynamic between the subject and the photographer but the subject and the photographer but the subject and the photographer but when there is relational Equity when when there is relational Equity when when there is relational Equity when that it's like when it's like symbiotic that it's like when it's like symbiotic that it's like when it's like symbiotic it feels effortless from both sides and it feels effortless from both sides and it feels effortless from both sides and you end up getting more um I don't know you end up getting more um I don't know you end up getting more um I don't know authentic expressions in the images authentic expressions in the images authentic expressions in the images themselves because everyone's at ease themselves because everyone's at ease themselves because everyone's at ease everyone's comfortable we were just at a everyone's comfortable we were just at a everyone's comfortable we were just at a wedding a few weeks ago and we had an wedding a few weeks ago and we had an wedding a few weeks ago and we had an experience with a photographer where experience with a photographer where experience with a photographer where they weren't executing their shot list they weren't executing their shot list they weren't executing their shot list very well it was during the family very well it was during the family very well it was during the family photos you know when when everyone yeah photos you know when when everyone yeah photos you know when when everyone yeah chaos and the photographer has a lot of chaos and the photographer has a lot of chaos and the photographer has a lot of responsibility in a setting like that to responsibility in a setting like that to responsibility in a setting like that to keep everyone in order make sure they're keep everyone in order make sure they're keep everyone in order make sure they're checking off all we need photos of Uncle checking off all we need photos of Uncle checking off all we need photos of Uncle John and Aunt Linda we need where's John and Aunt Linda we need where's John and Aunt Linda we need where's Billy where's Bobby and this Billy where's Bobby and this Billy where's Bobby and this photographer I think was a little green photographer I think was a little green photographer I think was a little green and was not managing that moment very and was not managing that moment very and was not managing that moment very well and I know that because I've had well and I know that because I've had well and I know that because I've had the uh the opposite experience where you the uh the opposite experience where you the uh the opposite experience where you just have a photographer who's a a Pros just have a photographer who's a a Pros just have a photographer who's a a Pros Pro and they just dominate that moment

Pro and they just dominate that moment Pro and they just dominate that moment and it ends up feeling so much more and it ends up feeling so much more and it ends up feeling so much more effortless for everyone in in the space effortless for everyone in in the space effortless for everyone in in the space everyone in the moment but also you end everyone in the moment but also you end everyone in the moment but also you end up getting a better a better like um up getting a better a better like um up getting a better a better like um product at the end you get all the shots product at the end you get all the shots product at the end you get all the shots that you're supposed to get just pro pro that you're supposed to get just pro pro that you're supposed to get just pro pro tip on that interject cuz I'm going to tip on that interject cuz I'm going to tip on that interject cuz I'm going to keep interrupting Alex um when when I keep interrupting Alex um when when I keep interrupting Alex um when when I was dating my now wife um we did an was dating my now wife um we did an was dating my now wife um we did an engagement photo shoot so we were 20 engagement photo shoot so we were 20 engagement photo shoot so we were 20 years old at the time and my years old at the time and my years old at the time and my mother-in-law decided to come along for mother-in-law decided to come along for mother-in-law decided to come along for the engagement photo shoot and it was the engagement photo shoot and it was the engagement photo shoot and it was outside it was the summer it was very outside it was the summer it was very outside it was the summer it was very hot and the photographer at one point hot and the photographer at one point hot and the photographer at one point said are you sure you're in said are you sure you're in said are you sure you're in love love love no because we grew up yeah you know uh no because we grew up yeah you know uh no because we grew up yeah you know uh you know it was always I was always as you know it was always I was always as you know it was always I was always as bad as what my youth pastor said to me bad as what my youth pastor said to me bad as what my youth pastor said to me when I told him we were going to start when I told him we were going to start when I told him we were going to start dating as 19-year-olds um who had dating as 19-year-olds um who had dating as 19-year-olds um who had crushes on each other for most of high crushes on each other for most of high crushes on each other for most of high school but are you really like you can school but are you really like you can school but are you really like you can date each other youth group and I date each other youth group and I date each other youth group and I remember my youth pastor said so you've remember my youth pastor said so you've remember my youth pastor said so you've decided to ruin your life forever so decided to ruin your life forever so decided to ruin your life forever so like there was a reason why we maybe we like there was a reason why we maybe we like there was a reason why we maybe we not comfortable being affectionate in not comfortable being affectionate in not comfortable being affectionate in front of people in that moment namely my front of people in that moment namely my front of people in that moment namely my mother-in-law not a great experience to mother-in-law not a great experience to mother-in-law not a great experience to be publicly affect my wife is famously be publicly affect my wife is famously be publicly affect my wife is famously not uh affectionate in public now she's not uh affectionate in public now she's not uh affectionate in public now she's in front of a photographer she doesn't in front of a photographer she doesn't in front of a photographer she doesn't know having her photo captured and her know having her photo captured and her know having her photo captured and her mother-in-law or her mother being like mother-in-law or her mother being like mother-in-law or her mother being like oh so you do kiss this boy didn't didn't oh so you do kiss this boy didn't didn't oh so you do kiss this boy didn't didn't know that that that's why it's like know that that that's why it's like know that that that's why it's like Benjamin in church like someone's Benjamin in church like someone's Benjamin in church like someone's someone's not raising their hands and someone's not raising their hands and someone's not raising their hands and worship he leans over are you sure you worship he leans over are you sure you worship he leans over are you sure you really love the really love the really love the Lord okay butke a little bit the side Lord okay butke a little bit the side Lord okay butke a little bit the side just poke yeah are you sure you want to just poke yeah are you sure you want to just poke yeah are you sure you want to be here uh no but here's a question so

be here uh no but here's a question so be here uh no but here's a question so when you've sused out like what this when you've sused out like what this when you've sused out like what this church needs and what your approach is church needs and what your approach is church needs and what your approach is going to be to shooting this this church going to be to shooting this this church going to be to shooting this this church I just want to ask you practically like I just want to ask you practically like I just want to ask you practically like do you have a shot list that you are do you have a shot list that you are do you have a shot list that you are like literally writing down in your like literally writing down in your like literally writing down in your phone and if not like how do you make phone and if not like how do you make phone and if not like how do you make sure that you hit what you need to hit sure that you hit what you need to hit sure that you hit what you need to hit so that when you get home and you start so that when you get home and you start so that when you get home and you start calling through the images you're not calling through the images you're not calling through the images you're not like oh I missed this how are you like oh I missed this how are you like oh I missed this how are you keeping yourself organized when it's keeping yourself organized when it's keeping yourself organized when it's time to actually start you know clicking time to actually start you know clicking time to actually start you know clicking the shutter yeah I mean with all the the shutter yeah I mean with all the the shutter yeah I mean with all the experience I've had specifically in experience I've had specifically in experience I've had specifically in church context now I'm to the point church context now I'm to the point church context now I'm to the point where it's just like I need this this where it's just like I need this this where it's just like I need this this this this and this and like I can fly this this and this and like I can fly this this and this and like I can fly through it when I was first starting through it when I was first starting through it when I was first starting definitely I'm keeping shotless in my definitely I'm keeping shotless in my definitely I'm keeping shotless in my phone I'm even one of the big questions phone I'm even one of the big questions phone I'm even one of the big questions I want to make sure to ask this when I want to make sure to ask this when I want to make sure to ask this when you're uh the pastor might it depends on you're uh the pastor might it depends on you're uh the pastor might it depends on how well vers they are in social media how well vers they are in social media how well vers they are in social media the digital world a big thing to asks the digital world a big thing to asks the digital world a big thing to asks ask them too is um where are these ask them too is um where are these ask them too is um where are these images going like is it going to be images going like is it going to be images going like is it going to be website is it social is it print because website is it social is it print because website is it social is it print because that's going to also inform you as a that's going to also inform you as a that's going to also inform you as a photographer uh should I focus on photographer uh should I focus on photographer uh should I focus on vertical photography or horizontal a vertical photography or horizontal a vertical photography or horizontal a good mix of both I'll even ask like and good mix of both I'll even ask like and good mix of both I'll even ask like and if they're well more well versed I'll if they're well more well versed I'll if they're well more well versed I'll ask like oh 70% vertical 30% horizontal ask like oh 70% vertical 30% horizontal ask like oh 70% vertical 30% horizontal like that's sometimes pretty good to like that's sometimes pretty good to like that's sometimes pretty good to start like getting a sense of what they start like getting a sense of what they start like getting a sense of what they need um that's a bit of a sidebar but need um that's a bit of a sidebar but need um that's a bit of a sidebar but that goes into uh when I'm building out that goes into uh when I'm building out that goes into uh when I'm building out a shot list I'll put stuff down like yes a shot list I'll put stuff down like yes a shot list I'll put stuff down like yes like vertical like they want they prefer like vertical like they want they prefer like vertical like they want they prefer vertical or they prefer vertical or they prefer vertical or they prefer horizontal um I'll also get into uh the

horizontal um I'll also get into uh the horizontal um I'll also get into uh the different Ministries that they are different Ministries that they are different Ministries that they are primarily wanting to focus and I'll primarily wanting to focus and I'll primarily wanting to focus and I'll build that out uh when I was now it's build that out uh when I was now it's build that out uh when I was now it's just kind of I can go there and bust out just kind of I can go there and bust out just kind of I can go there and bust out a church photography session and pretty a church photography session and pretty a church photography session and pretty quick uh now that I've done it a few quick uh now that I've done it a few quick uh now that I've done it a few times but my kind of philosophy that I times but my kind of philosophy that I times but my kind of philosophy that I have around shot lists uh and I can't have around shot lists uh and I can't have around shot lists uh and I can't take credit for this but I don't know take credit for this but I don't know take credit for this but I don't know where I heard it so if anybody knows uh where I heard it so if anybody knows uh where I heard it so if anybody knows uh it was that person that you're thinking it was that person that you're thinking it was that person that you're thinking of and not me but I want to say it of and not me but I want to say it of and not me but I want to say it because it's so good um and I think of because it's so good um and I think of because it's so good um and I think of shot lists and coverage of a scene much shot lists and coverage of a scene much shot lists and coverage of a scene much like building sentences building like building sentences building like building sentences building paragraphs and into a full story um you paragraphs and into a full story um you paragraphs and into a full story um you have your photos almost like you have have your photos almost like you have have your photos almost like you have your you have your nouns your verbs and your you have your nouns your verbs and your you have your nouns your verbs and your adjectives so when I'm covering a your adjectives so when I'm covering a your adjectives so when I'm covering a scene like if I'm covering worship let's scene like if I'm covering worship let's scene like if I'm covering worship let's take that for a moment um my noun is the take that for a moment um my noun is the take that for a moment um my noun is the establishing shot it's it's you're establishing shot it's it's you're establishing shot it's it's you're seeing the groups of people you're seeing the groups of people you're seeing the groups of people you're seeing the setting you're seeing the seeing the setting you're seeing the seeing the setting you're seeing the auditorium or wherever this is taking auditorium or wherever this is taking auditorium or wherever this is taking place the you're giving people context place the you're giving people context place the you're giving people context of where all of this is happening and of where all of this is happening and of where all of this is happening and then you have your verbs and that's then you have your verbs and that's then you have your verbs and that's going to be you're seeing people going to be you're seeing people going to be you're seeing people interacting you're seeing the musicians interacting you're seeing the musicians interacting you're seeing the musicians really getting into it you're seeing so really getting into it you're seeing so really getting into it you're seeing so much of something happening interacting much of something happening interacting much of something happening interacting with the environment environment with the environment environment with the environment environment interacting with each other giving each interacting with each other giving each interacting with each other giving each other hugs or it's the volunteer that's other hugs or it's the volunteer that's other hugs or it's the volunteer that's waving to a person walking into the waving to a person walking into the waving to a person walking into the auditorium like that's your verbs and auditorium like that's your verbs and auditorium like that's your verbs and then lastly adjectives those are the then lastly adjectives those are the then lastly adjectives those are the details that's the hand in the air details that's the hand in the air details that's the hand in the air that's um you know maybe it's it's more

that's um you know maybe it's it's more that's um you know maybe it's it's more zoomed in look at what's going on where zoomed in look at what's going on where zoomed in look at what's going on where maybe people don't get the full context maybe people don't get the full context maybe people don't get the full context with the other images they'll get the with the other images they'll get the with the other images they'll get the full context but this Standalone image full context but this Standalone image full context but this Standalone image is more about the feeling to further is more about the feeling to further is more about the feeling to further describe what's going on um and if you describe what's going on um and if you describe what's going on um and if you put these all together and you're able put these all together and you're able put these all together and you're able to deliver all of this and you're you're to deliver all of this and you're you're to deliver all of this and you're you're starting to build sentences you're starting to build sentences you're starting to build sentences you're building a story that isn't just um your building a story that isn't just um your building a story that isn't just um your standard look at oh this is just a fun standard look at oh this is just a fun standard look at oh this is just a fun snapshot of what this event or this snapshot of what this event or this snapshot of what this event or this church service looked like you're you're church service looked like you're you're church service looked like you're you're telling more of the story you're getting telling more of the story you're getting telling more of the story you're getting more people involved and invested in the more people involved and invested in the more people involved and invested in the emotions of what it feels like to be emotions of what it feels like to be emotions of what it feels like to be there you see filmmakers do this all the there you see filmmakers do this all the there you see filmmakers do this all the time all the wonderful movies I think of time all the wonderful movies I think of time all the wonderful movies I think of Dune recently Focus so much it focuses Dune recently Focus so much it focuses Dune recently Focus so much it focuses so much on the textures of like you can so much on the textures of like you can so much on the textures of like you can feel the sand like through the screen feel the sand like through the screen feel the sand like through the screen and uh it's just something that I think and uh it's just something that I think and uh it's just something that I think you practice more and more it just you practice more and more it just you practice more and more it just becomes natural that you can walk into becomes natural that you can walk into becomes natural that you can walk into any situation and already start building any situation and already start building any situation and already start building these are the things I need so let's these are the things I need so let's these are the things I need so let's talk about walking into a situation I talk about walking into a situation I talk about walking into a situation I got a DM from a person in a church got a DM from a person in a church got a DM from a person in a church recently I feel like we answered this on recently I feel like we answered this on recently I feel like we answered this on the show no that's not true it was a bit the show no that's not true it was a bit the show no that's not true it was a bit of a sensitive DM so we went back and of a sensitive DM so we went back and of a sensitive DM so we went back and forth sensitive in the sense that they forth sensitive in the sense that they forth sensitive in the sense that they didn't want me to reveal any details I'm didn't want me to reveal any details I'm didn't want me to reveal any details I'm confident I can tell you about this in a confident I can tell you about this in a confident I can tell you about this in a way that doesn't but they were saying way that doesn't but they were saying way that doesn't but they were saying how they had a person in their Church a how they had a person in their Church a how they had a person in their Church a couple come up to them and the couple couple come up to them and the couple couple come up to them and the couple was like I'm not comfortable having my was like I'm not comfortable having my was like I'm not comfortable having my photo take him and the pastor got

photo take him and the pastor got photo take him and the pastor got frustrated with this photographer and I frustrated with this photographer and I frustrated with this photographer and I was kind of confused because I was like was kind of confused because I was like was kind of confused because I was like I feel like the pastor should be taking I feel like the pastor should be taking I feel like the pastor should be taking ownership and being like hey we have a ownership and being like hey we have a ownership and being like hey we have a we have signage or we have areas in the we have signage or we have areas in the we have signage or we have areas in the sanctuary where you can stand or sit and sanctuary where you can stand or sit and sanctuary where you can stand or sit and make sure that you're not photographed make sure that you're not photographed make sure that you're not photographed there are plenty of ways that we can um there are plenty of ways that we can um there are plenty of ways that we can um sidestep that issue or confront that sidestep that issue or confront that sidestep that issue or confront that issue and address it we've talked about issue and address it we've talked about issue and address it we've talked about that in the past um two of the most that in the past um two of the most that in the past um two of the most common signage and then also having a common signage and then also having a common signage and then also having a spot in the sanctuary I just want to be spot in the sanctuary I just want to be spot in the sanctuary I just want to be clear on that if people are like talked clear on that if people are like talked clear on that if people are like talked about in the past this is now tell me about in the past this is now tell me about in the past this is now tell me now what should I do so this now what should I do so this now what should I do so this photographer is like like what was I photographer is like like what was I photographer is like like what was I supposed to do like I I I I I stand far supposed to do like I I I I I stand far supposed to do like I I I I I stand far away um I wear dark clothes I had a long away um I wear dark clothes I had a long away um I wear dark clothes I had a long lens um so I wanted to ask you about lens um so I wanted to ask you about lens um so I wanted to ask you about photographer etiquette and how you photographer etiquette and how you photographer etiquette and how you navigate these intimate moments uh navigate these intimate moments uh navigate these intimate moments uh church is so special because it's this church is so special because it's this church is so special because it's this intersection of different AG different intersection of different AG different intersection of different AG different ethnicities different socioeconomic ethnicities different socioeconomic ethnicities different socioeconomic backgrounds unifying for a shared backgrounds unifying for a shared backgrounds unifying for a shared purpose that shared purpose is like the purpose that shared purpose is like the purpose that shared purpose is like the most important thing all of us have in most important thing all of us have in most important thing all of us have in our lives and that's what makes these our lives and that's what makes these our lives and that's what makes these photographs so powerful but it can also photographs so powerful but it can also photographs so powerful but it can also feel like an invasion of privacy if it's feel like an invasion of privacy if it's feel like an invasion of privacy if it's done in a poor way so don't feel like done in a poor way so don't feel like done in a poor way so don't feel like you have to address like the way you have to address like the way you have to address like the way churches should set up signage and that churches should set up signage and that churches should set up signage and that sort of thing but for a photographer in sort of thing but for a photographer in sort of thing but for a photographer in the moment how do you operate to make the moment how do you operate to make the moment how do you operate to make sure that you're capturing these awesome sure that you're capturing these awesome sure that you're capturing these awesome shots but you're also not like stepping shots but you're also not like stepping shots but you're also not like stepping over over over boundaries yeah um I'll go a little bit boundaries yeah um I'll go a little bit boundaries yeah um I'll go a little bit into the uh the philosophy that uh I into the uh the philosophy that uh I into the uh the philosophy that uh I held while I was shooting at live Church held while I was shooting at live Church held while I was shooting at live Church um and a lot of it is around let's say um and a lot of it is around let's say um and a lot of it is around let's say you're in the auditorium I think a lot

you're in the auditorium I think a lot you're in the auditorium I think a lot of some personal moments can happen of some personal moments can happen of some personal moments can happen during worship and during some of these during worship and during some of these during worship and during some of these um moments when you're in the auditorium um moments when you're in the auditorium um moments when you're in the auditorium the Assumption we kind of made and the Assumption we kind of made and the Assumption we kind of made and operated on was if they're in the first operated on was if they're in the first operated on was if they're in the first few rows um they're excited to be they few rows um they're excited to be they few rows um they're excited to be they they kind of they're the most engaged um they kind of they're the most engaged um they kind of they're the most engaged um you're also probably going to get some you're also probably going to get some you're also probably going to get some of the best shots and the lighting is of the best shots and the lighting is of the best shots and the lighting is going to hit just right on them to be going to hit just right on them to be going to hit just right on them to be like it's going to be easier to navigate like it's going to be easier to navigate like it's going to be easier to navigate especially you may not have gear that especially you may not have gear that especially you may not have gear that can operate in low light so there's can operate in low light so there's can operate in low light so there's multiple benefits um to that but on the multiple benefits um to that but on the multiple benefits um to that but on the etiquette side the Assumption was if etiquette side the Assumption was if etiquette side the Assumption was if they're in the front row we can they're in the front row we can they're in the front row we can generally photograph them and feel safe generally photograph them and feel safe generally photograph them and feel safe that they understand that their that they understand that their that they understand that their participation in this um is participation in this um is participation in this um is uh an okay uh because most of the time uh an okay uh because most of the time uh an okay uh because most of the time the people who maybe don't want to be the people who maybe don't want to be the people who maybe don't want to be photographed who maybe don't want to photographed who maybe don't want to photographed who maybe don't want to maybe be seen they're going to be maybe be seen they're going to be maybe be seen they're going to be sitting maybe a little further back sitting maybe a little further back sitting maybe a little further back maybe they're to the edges um and I maybe they're to the edges um and I maybe they're to the edges um and I think also as think also as think also as photographers as you get better and as photographers as you get better and as photographers as you get better and as you train you can start seeing people in you train you can start seeing people in you train you can start seeing people in a way that like they might feel a way that like they might feel a way that like they might feel uncomfortable I know it feels that feels uncomfortable I know it feels that feels uncomfortable I know it feels that feels a little murky and like oh how do you a little murky and like oh how do you a little murky and like oh how do you even figure that out but um when you pay even figure that out but um when you pay even figure that out but um when you pay attention like you you can kind of see attention like you you can kind of see attention like you you can kind of see where maybe people are trying to stay where maybe people are trying to stay where maybe people are trying to stay out of the light they're trying to stay out of the light they're trying to stay out of the light they're trying to stay out of people um seeing them there uh so out of people um seeing them there uh so out of people um seeing them there uh so that's kind of the auditorium etiquette that's kind of the auditorium etiquette that's kind of the auditorium etiquette I always shoot yes long lenses 85

I always shoot yes long lenses 85 I always shoot yes long lenses 85 millimeter 50 millimeter in the millimeter 50 millimeter in the millimeter 50 millimeter in the auditorium um I don't try to get up and auditorium um I don't try to get up and auditorium um I don't try to get up and like I keep a distance like people are like I keep a distance like people are like I keep a distance like people are it's not about the photography at that it's not about the photography at that it's not about the photography at that moment it's between their connection and moment it's between their connection and moment it's between their connection and that they're having with what's that they're having with what's that they're having with what's happening in the auditorium um in their happening in the auditorium um in their happening in the auditorium um in their spiritual life uh when it comes there's spiritual life uh when it comes there's spiritual life uh when it comes there's oh sorry Co keep going keep going I have oh sorry Co keep going keep going I have oh sorry Co keep going keep going I have a very specific question that I don't a very specific question that I don't a very specific question that I don't want to interrupt with right now yeah um want to interrupt with right now yeah um want to interrupt with right now yeah um so I was going to move on like with so I was going to move on like with so I was going to move on like with Lobby stuff like again like I try to Lobby stuff like again like I try to Lobby stuff like again like I try to keep a bit of a distance and you can get keep a bit of a distance and you can get keep a bit of a distance and you can get a sense where people want to maybe a sense where people want to maybe a sense where people want to maybe interact more with you and then like you interact more with you and then like you interact more with you and then like you can get a little closer have a little can get a little closer have a little can get a little closer have a little fun make I that awkward eye contact when fun make I that awkward eye contact when fun make I that awkward eye contact when they see you with the camera there and they see you with the camera there and they see you with the camera there and then you can have that uh moment to then you can have that uh moment to then you can have that uh moment to maybe direct them to do something fun maybe direct them to do something fun maybe direct them to do something fun but yeah for the most part it's it's but yeah for the most part it's it's but yeah for the most part it's it's it's a hard answer because you really it's a hard answer because you really it's a hard answer because you really have to feel it out you have to be very have to feel it out you have to be very have to feel it out you have to be very aware don't just go in there uh you know aware don't just go in there uh you know aware don't just go in there uh you know snapping shots whenever you can Chuck snapping shots whenever you can Chuck snapping shots whenever you can Chuck Norris kicking the door down and like Norris kicking the door down and like Norris kicking the door down and like trying to get as much as you can out of trying to get as much as you can out of trying to get as much as you can out of it with it it's be Feel the Moment too it with it it's be Feel the Moment too it with it it's be Feel the Moment too like be in the moment feel the moment like be in the moment feel the moment like be in the moment feel the moment and you should be able to pick up up on and you should be able to pick up up on and you should be able to pick up up on where other people are that's such an where other people are that's such an where other people are that's such an artistic way to say it like an art a artistic way to say it like an art a artistic way to say it like an art a creative creative creative way like I guess what you're way like I guess what you're way like I guess what you're acknowledging is like just emotional acknowledging is like just emotional acknowledging is like just emotional intelligence right and like in the intelligence right and like in the intelligence right and like in the moment it's important for you to sense moment it's important for you to sense moment it's important for you to sense how the other person is feeling um and how the other person is feeling um and how the other person is feeling um and we can misread those things right like

we can misread those things right like we can misread those things right like you can think something is cool it feels you can think something is cool it feels you can think something is cool it feels right and then you end up getting the right and then you end up getting the right and then you end up getting the message from the pastor that says hey message from the pastor that says hey message from the pastor that says hey you you know you're really cross the you you know you're really cross the you you know you're really cross the line here Benjamin How Could you um what line here Benjamin How Could you um what line here Benjamin How Could you um what do you do if you counter in a time like do you do if you counter in a time like do you do if you counter in a time like this this this you know you want to capture a great you know you want to capture a great you know you want to capture a great authentic worship moment and the reality authentic worship moment and the reality authentic worship moment and the reality is um there are certain physical is um there are certain physical is um there are certain physical manifestations that make a worship manifestations that make a worship manifestations that make a worship moment look authentic through a lens moment look authentic through a lens moment look authentic through a lens those being eyes closed hands those being eyes closed hands those being eyes closed hands outstretched hands fully raised um what outstretched hands fully raised um what outstretched hands fully raised um what do you do when like it's a Congregation do you do when like it's a Congregation do you do when like it's a Congregation of like 75 people and like only two of like 75 people and like only two of like 75 people and like only two people are raising their hands and people are raising their hands and people are raising their hands and you're like man I keep photographing you're like man I keep photographing you're like man I keep photographing this same person over and over again one this same person over and over again one this same person over and over again one one person asked me a similar question one person asked me a similar question one person asked me a similar question they said how do I make my church look they said how do I make my church look they said how do I make my church look less less less miserable sounds like you have a problem miserable sounds like you have a problem miserable sounds like you have a problem that we can't help people are coming to that we can't help people are coming to that we can't help people are coming to church like a not church like a not church like a not again uh I actually yes I have some again uh I actually yes I have some again uh I actually yes I have some experience in this uh because I have experience in this uh because I have experience in this uh because I have shot array of churches that feel yeah shot array of churches that feel yeah shot array of churches that feel yeah they're much smaller they might be 40 they're much smaller they might be 40 they're much smaller they might be 40 people in an auditorium that is meant people in an auditorium that is meant people in an auditorium that is meant for quadruple that and so you're trying for quadruple that and so you're trying for quadruple that and so you're trying to uh hide the empty seats Maybe to uh hide the empty seats Maybe to uh hide the empty seats Maybe um a lot of that is long um a lot of that is long um a lot of that is long lenses cleverly navigating how you're lenses cleverly navigating how you're lenses cleverly navigating how you're shooting a scene um like with your shooting a scene um like with your shooting a scene um like with your compositions so I do a lot of layering compositions so I do a lot of layering compositions so I do a lot of layering in my shots I will purposely have in my shots I will purposely have in my shots I will purposely have something in the foreground like I might something in the foreground like I might something in the foreground like I might block a row of empty seats with a person

block a row of empty seats with a person block a row of empty seats with a person I might have so that you don't see that I might have so that you don't see that I might have so that you don't see that there's a bunch of empty seats past this there's a bunch of empty seats past this there's a bunch of empty seats past this person but the subject is still in there person but the subject is still in there person but the subject is still in there and that's the focus but it's like and that's the focus but it's like and that's the focus but it's like framing your subject with things that framing your subject with things that framing your subject with things that minimize distraction which would be minimize distraction which would be minimize distraction which would be maybe empty seats maybe it is um people maybe empty seats maybe it is um people maybe empty seats maybe it is um people who aren't as into worship or into the who aren't as into worship or into the who aren't as into worship or into the moment as others uh you can just moment as others uh you can just moment as others uh you can just cleverly navigate your cleverly navigate your cleverly navigate your compositions um next uh it's kind of compositions um next uh it's kind of compositions um next uh it's kind of again going back to that adjective uh again going back to that adjective uh again going back to that adjective uh shot list uh kind of photo that I was shot list uh kind of photo that I was shot list uh kind of photo that I was talking about it's like um get like get talking about it's like um get like get talking about it's like um get like get a tight shot of like maybe they hands a tight shot of like maybe they hands a tight shot of like maybe they hands like forward in front of them and so like forward in front of them and so like forward in front of them and so you're not seeing the whole Auditorium you're not seeing the whole Auditorium you're not seeing the whole Auditorium like it's part of our um Mission as like it's part of our um Mission as like it's part of our um Mission as photographers as artists to guide the photographers as artists to guide the photographers as artists to guide the viewer into what we want to see and so viewer into what we want to see and so viewer into what we want to see and so just get rid of the distractions prop it just get rid of the distractions prop it just get rid of the distractions prop it in if you need to if you don't have a in if you need to if you don't have a in if you need to if you don't have a tight enough lens um and you have enough tight enough lens um and you have enough tight enough lens um and you have enough resolution to do so um and really focus resolution to do so um and really focus resolution to do so um and really focus in on the moment that you want people to in on the moment that you want people to in on the moment that you want people to see uh and figure either through see uh and figure either through see uh and figure either through composition in camera or in post in a composition in camera or in post in a composition in camera or in post in a clever way of cropping to make sure that clever way of cropping to make sure that clever way of cropping to make sure that there's no distractions around it this there's no distractions around it this there's no distractions around it this reminds me of when Alex and I would go reminds me of when Alex and I would go reminds me of when Alex and I would go out and we would like shoot stock out and we would like shoot stock out and we would like shoot stock footage so we would be um on D at a footage so we would be um on D at a footage so we would be um on D at a destination place that we're not

destination place that we're not destination place that we're not familiar with and we'd roll up and it's familiar with and we'd roll up and it's familiar with and we'd roll up and it's like 5: a.m. cuz it's summer time and like 5: a.m. cuz it's summer time and like 5: a.m. cuz it's summer time and we're at this like mountain that we're we're at this like mountain that we're we're at this like mountain that we're going to film or at this like beautiful going to film or at this like beautiful going to film or at this like beautiful Vista that we're going to film um or Vista that we're going to film um or Vista that we're going to film um or landmark landmark landmark and we're creating stock footage and so and we're creating stock footage and so and we're creating stock footage and so the unique challenge of that is we're the unique challenge of that is we're the unique challenge of that is we're going to publish this footage and people going to publish this footage and people going to publish this footage and people are going to use it for any number of are going to use it for any number of are going to use it for any number of different type creative applications so different type creative applications so different type creative applications so we want to give them as much optionality we want to give them as much optionality we want to give them as much optionality and as much variety of this like single and as much variety of this like single and as much variety of this like single subject matter and so we would talk subject matter and so we would talk subject matter and so we would talk about okay for every type of shot we about okay for every type of shot we about okay for every type of shot we need a wide a medium and a tight version need a wide a medium and a tight version need a wide a medium and a tight version because the worst thing is like when because the worst thing is like when because the worst thing is like when you're and and this applies directly to you're and and this applies directly to you're and and this applies directly to what you're saying Benjamin you're what you're saying Benjamin you're what you're saying Benjamin you're working on the church photos and you're working on the church photos and you're working on the church photos and you're like ah we need a a postcard or we need like ah we need a a postcard or we need like ah we need a a postcard or we need a social post or we need you know a social post or we need you know a social post or we need you know there's this one part of the website there's this one part of the website there's this one part of the website this one section and it needs a photo this one section and it needs a photo this one section and it needs a photo but this photo it has to be a dark photo but this photo it has to be a dark photo but this photo it has to be a dark photo and it can't be two white and then and it can't be two white and then and it can't be two white and then you're like Ah that's the one photo I you're like Ah that's the one photo I you're like Ah that's the one photo I didn't take and so if you're capturing didn't take and so if you're capturing didn't take and so if you're capturing like the same visual point the same like the same visual point the same like the same visual point the same point of interest at those three point of interest at those three point of interest at those three different lengths then that gives you different lengths then that gives you different lengths then that gives you the variety and then we would take that the variety and then we would take that the variety and then we would take that and extrapolate it to any type of and extrapolate it to any type of and extrapolate it to any type of movement we were doing so we often movement we were doing so we often movement we were doing so we often shooting with a drone so okay if we're shooting with a drone so okay if we're shooting with a drone so okay if we're doing a push shot we need a wide tight doing a push shot we need a wide tight doing a push shot we need a wide tight and medium push shot sometimes you would and medium push shot sometimes you would and medium push shot sometimes you would be like oh a a tight push shot in this be like oh a a tight push shot in this be like oh a a tight push shot in this case on a mountain would look stupid case on a mountain would look stupid case on a mountain would look stupid because the mountain is so big but because the mountain is so big but because the mountain is so big but sometimes if it was like a single like sometimes if it was like a single like sometimes if it was like a single like Peak on the mountain with other peaks in Peak on the mountain with other peaks in Peak on the mountain with other peaks in the background now you have that the background now you have that the background now you have that foreground background element coming foreground background element coming foreground background element coming into play so it's not always perfectly into play so it's not always perfectly into play so it's not always perfectly relevant but like oh we're doing a left relevant but like oh we're doing a left relevant but like oh we're doing a left to right um you know kind of Panorama to right um you know kind of Panorama to right um you know kind of Panorama okay same thing wide medium tight we're

okay same thing wide medium tight we're okay same thing wide medium tight we're doing like a raise up Point down wide doing like a raise up Point down wide doing like a raise up Point down wide medium tie and then that kind of gives medium tie and then that kind of gives medium tie and then that kind of gives you the framework uh of doing the same you the framework uh of doing the same you the framework uh of doing the same thing because it's true you know you got thing because it's true you know you got thing because it's true you know you got a raised hand that could be anyone and a raised hand that could be anyone and a raised hand that could be anyone and yes it's the person that was only yes it's the person that was only yes it's the person that was only raising their hand that week but you raising their hand that week but you raising their hand that week but you don't know that for sure that's right don't know that for sure that's right don't know that for sure that's right you H said something that struck me you you H said something that struck me you you H said something that struck me you said you make eye content with someone said you make eye content with someone said you make eye content with someone in the lobby and you kind of have that in the lobby and you kind of have that in the lobby and you kind of have that nonverbal interaction and an nonverbal interaction and an nonverbal interaction and an acknowledgement of one another and then acknowledgement of one another and then acknowledgement of one another and then you said I might direct them to do you said I might direct them to do you said I might direct them to do something fun I wanted to ask you more something fun I wanted to ask you more something fun I wanted to ask you more about that do you have like about that do you have like about that do you have like goto uh suggestions do you come up with goto uh suggestions do you come up with goto uh suggestions do you come up with them in the moment have you found some them in the moment have you found some them in the moment have you found some work better than others have you said work better than others have you said work better than others have you said something that was so tremendously something that was so tremendously something that was so tremendously embarrassing that you said I can never embarrassing that you said I can never embarrassing that you said I can never return to this church return to this church return to this church again uh well I will say the governing again uh well I will say the governing again uh well I will say the governing philosophy I do operate on is candids philosophy I do operate on is candids philosophy I do operate on is candids are the best way to go I do think unless are the best way to go I do think unless are the best way to go I do think unless it's uh specific to an event like and it's uh specific to an event like and it's uh specific to an event like and you can get some groups together and you can get some groups together and you can get some groups together and everything I know this is indirectly everything I know this is indirectly everything I know this is indirectly answering your question but uh candid is answering your question but uh candid is answering your question but uh candid is my operative but sometimes you do make my operative but sometimes you do make my operative but sometimes you do make that eye contact and they want to like that eye contact and they want to like that eye contact and they want to like pose and they want to like uh really pose and they want to like uh really pose and they want to like uh really have a fun time interacting with the have a fun time interacting with the have a fun time interacting with the camera I don't really say anything I camera I don't really say anything I camera I don't really say anything I kind of just like let them kind of come kind of just like let them kind of come kind of just like let them kind of come through like uh their personality shine through like uh their personality shine through like uh their personality shine through and I just keep shooting the through and I just keep shooting the through and I just keep shooting the entire time so like a lot of the times I entire time so like a lot of the times I entire time so like a lot of the times I like have them get together like if like have them get together like if like have them get together like if they're with a group and they're with they're with a group and they're with they're with a group and they're with their friends I'm like oh get together their friends I'm like oh get together their friends I'm like oh get together for the photo and I take a few shots and for the photo and I take a few shots and for the photo and I take a few shots and I'm like that's great like you like and

I'm like that's great like you like and I'm like that's great like you like and I just like laugh with them and then I I just like laugh with them and then I I just like laugh with them and then I but I keep shooting because then after but I keep shooting because then after but I keep shooting because then after usually after that photo they're like usually after that photo they're like usually after that photo they're like maybe laughing or chatting or having a maybe laughing or chatting or having a maybe laughing or chatting or having a good time with their friends and that's good time with their friends and that's good time with their friends and that's the authentic candid moment that you can the authentic candid moment that you can the authentic candid moment that you can get um it's so it's like setting up a get um it's so it's like setting up a get um it's so it's like setting up a image that I'm not really planning on image that I'm not really planning on image that I'm not really planning on using to get the reaction after because using to get the reaction after because using to get the reaction after because that's going to be an authentic laugh or that's going to be an authentic laugh or that's going to be an authentic laugh or a moment where it feels candid in the a moment where it feels candid in the a moment where it feels candid in the moment uh just showing the vibrancy of moment uh just showing the vibrancy of moment uh just showing the vibrancy of their personality in the church so it's their personality in the church so it's their personality in the church so it's a bit of a trick a bit of a trick a bit of a trick question and that I it's not like I'm question and that I it's not like I'm question and that I it's not like I'm perfect like uh purposefully setting up perfect like uh purposefully setting up perfect like uh purposefully setting up scenes to um shoot on occasion though I scenes to um shoot on occasion though I scenes to um shoot on occasion though I will like approach a volunteer and I'll will like approach a volunteer and I'll will like approach a volunteer and I'll be like it's like I've seen a lot of be like it's like I've seen a lot of be like it's like I've seen a lot of times uh they're handing out pamphlets times uh they're handing out pamphlets times uh they're handing out pamphlets or they're handing out some sort of or they're handing out some sort of or they're handing out some sort of printed material or that maybe they're printed material or that maybe they're printed material or that maybe they're passing a coffee cup that has the passing a coffee cup that has the passing a coffee cup that has the church's logo on it I might like for a church's logo on it I might like for a church's logo on it I might like for a moment ask them like hey can you like moment ask them like hey can you like moment ask them like hey can you like turn the logo to the turn the logo to the turn the logo to the outside or could you uh like like hand outside or could you uh like like hand outside or could you uh like like hand out the pamphlet a little bit more out the pamphlet a little bit more out the pamphlet a little bit more angled towards me uh just for a couple angled towards me uh just for a couple angled towards me uh just for a couple times so I can get some shots of that times so I can get some shots of that times so I can get some shots of that being handed off um stuff like that I being handed off um stuff like that I being handed off um stuff like that I tend to work more with volunteers to ask tend to work more with volunteers to ask tend to work more with volunteers to ask uh if they could make things maybe a uh if they could make things maybe a uh if they could make things maybe a little more appealing to little more appealing to little more appealing to photography uh and make it easier to photography uh and make it easier to photography uh and make it easier to convey what's happening in the scene I convey what's happening in the scene I convey what's happening in the scene I don't really ask congregants to do much

don't really ask congregants to do much don't really ask congregants to do much it's if it's anybody it's going to be it's if it's anybody it's going to be it's if it's anybody it's going to be volunteers or staff members what tends volunteers or staff members what tends volunteers or staff members what tends to happen is as soon as you provide to happen is as soon as you provide to happen is as soon as you provide instruction people are in their heads instruction people are in their heads instruction people are in their heads and they're like oh he wants me she and they're like oh he wants me she and they're like oh he wants me she wants me to do this thing I have to do wants me to do this thing I have to do wants me to do this thing I have to do this thing and you know one out of a 100 this thing and you know one out of a 100 this thing and you know one out of a 100 people might be able to do that thing people might be able to do that thing people might be able to do that thing and make it look natural yeah if you and make it look natural yeah if you and make it look natural yeah if you think about what photographers tend to think about what photographers tend to think about what photographers tend to do like when they try to get you to do like when they try to get you to do like when they try to get you to laugh they're always tricking you laugh they're always tricking you laugh they're always tricking you because the only way to get the organic because the only way to get the organic because the only way to get the organic response is for them to basically like response is for them to basically like response is for them to basically like do something that then makes you do something that then makes you do something that then makes you naturally respond in the way that they naturally respond in the way that they naturally respond in the way that they intended but not in the way they intended but not in the way they intended but not in the way they explicitly told you it has to be done in explicitly told you it has to be done in explicitly told you it has to be done in way that creates that moment organically way that creates that moment organically way that creates that moment organically yeah I want to talk a little bit more yeah I want to talk a little bit more yeah I want to talk a little bit more about that Benjamin because you said about that Benjamin because you said about that Benjamin because you said earlier like we're talking about the earlier like we're talking about the earlier like we're talking about the subject of of our photos here in church subject of of our photos here in church subject of of our photos here in church and you said like the subject is the and you said like the subject is the and you said like the subject is the people and we agree that like we're people and we agree that like we're people and we agree that like we're shooting Church photos but the church is shooting Church photos but the church is shooting Church photos but the church is not the building the church is the not the building the church is the not the building the church is the people and when we have you back in a people and when we have you back in a people and when we have you back in a couple weeks we're going to talk about couple weeks we're going to talk about couple weeks we're going to talk about technology and um editing and post and technology and um editing and post and technology and um editing and post and all of the technological tools that we all of the technological tools that we all of the technological tools that we have to make photos better but like have to make photos better but like have to make photos better but like generative fill aside what technology generative fill aside what technology generative fill aside what technology can't do is account for the lack of a can't do is account for the lack of a can't do is account for the lack of a good subject in the photo and so I'm good subject in the photo and so I'm good subject in the photo and so I'm going to ask you a question here and I'm going to ask you a question here and I'm going to ask you a question here and I'm I'm giving you full license to to answer I'm giving you full license to to answer I'm giving you full license to to answer this question in the most like artistic this question in the most like artistic this question in the most like artistic pretentious way that you want it depends pretentious way that you want it depends pretentious way that you want it depends because something I notice about your because something I notice about your because something I notice about your photography and I'm looking at an image photography and I'm looking at an image photography and I'm looking at an image right now in particular something I right now in particular something I right now in particular something I notice about the way you shoot people is

notice about the way you shoot people is notice about the way you shoot people is that the photos come across not as if that the photos come across not as if that the photos come across not as if there was a fly in the wall who took there was a fly in the wall who took there was a fly in the wall who took this photo because that's frankly that's this photo because that's frankly that's this photo because that's frankly that's easy put on a long lens a 70 to 200 you easy put on a long lens a 70 to 200 you easy put on a long lens a 70 to 200 you can take a a photo of a scene that's can take a a photo of a scene that's can take a a photo of a scene that's happening far away and it can be a good happening far away and it can be a good happening far away and it can be a good image but it feels like a fly on the image but it feels like a fly on the image but it feels like a fly on the wall took this photo what you have this wall took this photo what you have this wall took this photo what you have this this ability to do is to take photos this ability to do is to take photos this ability to do is to take photos that are I've been I've been wrestling that are I've been I've been wrestling that are I've been I've been wrestling to find the right word but like to find the right word but like to find the right word but like immersive it feels like the the camera immersive it feels like the the camera immersive it feels like the the camera is in this moment somehow yet not a is in this moment somehow yet not a is in this moment somehow yet not a distraction not out of place and so I'm distraction not out of place and so I'm distraction not out of place and so I'm looking at this one photo of this looking at this one photo of this looking at this one photo of this baptism and we put it on the screen yeah baptism and we put it on the screen yeah baptism and we put it on the screen yeah this woman is holding up this young this woman is holding up this young this woman is holding up this young child dude I don't know if you were in child dude I don't know if you were in child dude I don't know if you were in the water or what but like this is just the water or what but like this is just the water or what but like this is just this is just an example of how you shoot this is just an example of how you shoot this is just an example of how you shoot the subject how you shoot people and so the subject how you shoot people and so the subject how you shoot people and so if you can in in the the most or least if you can in in the the most or least if you can in in the the most or least artistic terms that you want to use talk artistic terms that you want to use talk artistic terms that you want to use talk to me about your approach to shooting to me about your approach to shooting to me about your approach to shooting people like your your photography seem people like your your photography seem people like your your photography seem so like humancentric that that's what so like humancentric that that's what so like humancentric that that's what really comes across is like oh this is a really comes across is like oh this is a really comes across is like oh this is a great photo this is a great moment and great photo this is a great moment and great photo this is a great moment and you're cre creting that with how you you're cre creting that with how you you're cre creting that with how you shoot the image not just how you edit it shoot the image not just how you edit it shoot the image not just how you edit it so talk to me about well and I'll show so talk to me about well and I'll show so talk to me about well and I'll show him this photo Alex what what focal him this photo Alex what what focal him this photo Alex what what focal length do you think that is Benjamin length do you think that is Benjamin length do you think that is Benjamin don't tell us we're going to guess if don't tell us we're going to guess if don't tell us we're going to guess if it's if it's full frame I'm going to it's if it's full frame I'm going to it's if it's full frame I'm going to guess it's 35 Ms yeah like that looks guess it's 35 Ms yeah like that looks guess it's 35 Ms yeah like that looks like a pretty wide angle shot so so like a pretty wide angle shot so so like a pretty wide angle shot so so again that's why he said are you in the again that's why he said are you in the again that's why he said are you in the water like do you remember roughly what water like do you remember roughly what water like do you remember roughly what focal length that was oh it was a 24 focal length that was oh it was a 24 focal length that was oh it was a 24 yeah right so you're even closer than I yeah right so you're even closer than I yeah right so you're even closer than I expect so like are you are you in the expect so like are you are you in the expect so like are you are you in the water are you wet uh let's just say I

water are you wet uh let's just say I water are you wet uh let's just say I should probably get a pretty good should probably get a pretty good should probably get a pretty good insurance policy for my insurance policy for my insurance policy for my there I uh I was holding my camera out there I uh I was holding my camera out there I uh I was holding my camera out probably a few just a little bit above probably a few just a little bit above probably a few just a little bit above the water and I was hoping there wasn't the water and I was hoping there wasn't the water and I was hoping there wasn't going to be too many going to be too many going to be too many splashes but well Pro tip um we did this splashes but well Pro tip um we did this splashes but well Pro tip um we did this one time Benjamin um we also shot put one time Benjamin um we also shot put one time Benjamin um we also shot put this clip on the this clip on the this clip on the screen we also shot uh a baptism uh this screen we also shot uh a baptism uh this screen we also shot uh a baptism uh this was a staged stock footage baptism so was a staged stock footage baptism so was a staged stock footage baptism so what we did was we took a fish what we did was we took a fish what we did was we took a fish tank and we put the camera in the fish tank and we put the camera in the fish tank and we put the camera in the fish tank and it was a black magic Ursa like tank and it was a black magic Ursa like tank and it was a black magic Ursa like 4K and so it's a fish tank right so we'd 4K and so it's a fish tank right so we'd 4K and so it's a fish tank right so we'd push the F fish tank down so like half push the F fish tank down so like half push the F fish tank down so like half the lens was underwater but the other the lens was underwater but the other the lens was underwater but the other half was above water and it felt like half was above water and it felt like half was above water and it felt like you were floating so you know again just you were floating so you know again just you were floating so you know again just really Hightech Solutions on our side really Hightech Solutions on our side really Hightech Solutions on our side feel free to steal that uh you know feel free to steal that uh you know feel free to steal that uh you know you're carrying around a gear you got you're carrying around a gear you got you're carrying around a gear you got camera body One camera body two couple camera body One camera body two couple camera body One camera body two couple ledes just a fish tank like a football ledes just a fish tank like a football ledes just a fish tank like a football underneath there's a child's baptism underneath there's a child's baptism underneath there's a child's baptism happening and he's putting a fish tank happening and he's putting a fish tank happening and he's putting a fish tank in oh man yeah that shot specifically in oh man yeah that shot specifically in oh man yeah that shot specifically with the fish tank this is a bit of a with the fish tank this is a bit of a with the fish tank this is a bit of a sidebar my old uh boss at Life Church sidebar my old uh boss at Life Church sidebar my old uh boss at Life Church Robbie Dolan he wouldn't mind being Robbie Dolan he wouldn't mind being Robbie Dolan he wouldn't mind being getting the shout out but he did that getting the shout out but he did that getting the shout out but he did that and succeeded in getting that awesome and succeeded in getting that awesome and succeeded in getting that awesome halfway so if you need tips to be able halfway so if you need tips to be able halfway so if you need tips to be able to do it again with a fish to do it again with a fish to do it again with a fish tank see we were on to tank see we were on to tank see we were on to something Church you so if you just look something Church you so if you just look something Church you so if you just look him up you I think it's pinned on his

him up you I think it's pinned on his him up you I think it's pinned on his Instagram just Robbie Dolan at the top Instagram just Robbie Dolan at the top Instagram just Robbie Dolan at the top there is an amazing image of what you there is an amazing image of what you there is an amazing image of what you were probably hoping to get and no were probably hoping to get and no were probably hoping to get and no camera bodies were ruined in the process camera bodies were ruined in the process camera bodies were ruined in the process amazing oh but um yes so I was shooting amazing oh but um yes so I was shooting amazing oh but um yes so I was shooting 24 I was pretty close 24 I was pretty close 24 I was pretty close and um I was right by the edge uh to and um I was right by the edge uh to and um I was right by the edge uh to capture the baptism when it comes to capture the baptism when it comes to capture the baptism when it comes to baptism photos it can I know different baptism photos it can I know different baptism photos it can I know different churches have different uh philosophies churches have different uh philosophies churches have different uh philosophies on how to approach it some are somber on how to approach it some are somber on how to approach it some are somber some are more celebratory uh I've been some are more celebratory uh I've been some are more celebratory uh I've been mostly in churches that are incredibly mostly in churches that are incredibly mostly in churches that are incredibly celebratory during those moments and celebratory during those moments and celebratory during those moments and there's a lot of like cheering and wild there's a lot of like cheering and wild there's a lot of like cheering and wild um you know people getting involved in um you know people getting involved in um you know people getting involved in music so it's not out of place for me to music so it's not out of place for me to music so it's not out of place for me to be right there up at the pool and I can be right there up at the pool and I can be right there up at the pool and I can just kind of get my uh camera over the just kind of get my uh camera over the just kind of get my uh camera over the edge and a lot of the times uh some of edge and a lot of the times uh some of edge and a lot of the times uh some of these churches have video like they're these churches have video like they're these churches have video like they're they have the video feed going and so they have the video feed going and so they have the video feed going and so they have a filmmaker kind of or a they have a filmmaker kind of or a they have a filmmaker kind of or a videographer right there with the feed videographer right there with the feed videographer right there with the feed um so sometimes you can get away with um so sometimes you can get away with um so sometimes you can get away with just being like hey can I just stand just being like hey can I just stand just being like hey can I just stand next to this videographer I won't be any next to this videographer I won't be any next to this videographer I won't be any more of a distraction than they are um more of a distraction than they are um more of a distraction than they are um so with baptism specifically that's how so with baptism specifically that's how so with baptism specifically that's how we can get pretty close uh when it comes we can get pretty close uh when it comes we can get pretty close uh when it comes to worship and I actually will show up to worship and I actually will show up to worship and I actually will show up to uh soundcheck and that's how I'll be to uh soundcheck and that's how I'll be to uh soundcheck and that's how I'll be like hey can I get on the stage I want like hey can I get on the stage I want like hey can I get on the stage I want to get close and like do some to get close and like do some to get close and like do some photography um so show up if you I mean photography um so show up if you I mean photography um so show up if you I mean if you're able to and they're willing

if you're able to and they're willing if you're able to and they're willing like show up early go to um yeah go to like show up early go to um yeah go to like show up early go to um yeah go to the sound check ask the like be like the sound check ask the like be like the sound check ask the like be like with the musicians and be like hey can with the musicians and be like hey can with the musicians and be like hey can you just like really get into it for you just like really get into it for you just like really get into it for like uh you know a few a few songs for like uh you know a few a few songs for like uh you know a few a few songs for this set and I want to get some good this set and I want to get some good this set and I want to get some good photos of you some close-ups um so a lot photos of you some close-ups um so a lot photos of you some close-ups um so a lot of those photos I shot 24 my kit is a 24 of those photos I shot 24 my kit is a 24 of those photos I shot 24 my kit is a 24 millimeter 50 millimeter and a 70 to 200 millimeter 50 millimeter and a 70 to 200 millimeter 50 millimeter and a 70 to 200 uh I live a lot on that 50 millimet um uh I live a lot on that 50 millimet um uh I live a lot on that 50 millimet um it's just a good in between uh it's it's it's just a good in between uh it's it's it's just a good in between uh it's it's a reason why it's a favorite for a lot a reason why it's a favorite for a lot a reason why it's a favorite for a lot of people um but the 24 mm kind of came of people um but the 24 mm kind of came of people um but the 24 mm kind of came about because it resembles a lot of what about because it resembles a lot of what about because it resembles a lot of what people are familiar with with an iPhone people are familiar with with an iPhone people are familiar with with an iPhone um it's becoming so much more like um it's becoming so much more like um it's becoming so much more like recognized as this is a wide angle that recognized as this is a wide angle that recognized as this is a wide angle that uh is is uh is is uh is is uh approachable it's familiar so I'll uh approachable it's familiar so I'll uh approachable it's familiar so I'll I'll get pretty close with some of that I'll get pretty close with some of that I'll get pretty close with some of that and a lot of the trick is to and a lot of the trick is to and a lot of the trick is to be um I try to make myself small uh be um I try to make myself small uh be um I try to make myself small uh cameras are already intimidating enough cameras are already intimidating enough cameras are already intimidating enough the 70 to 200 is this massive lens and the 70 to 200 is this massive lens and the 70 to 200 is this massive lens and it's kind of scary for people to see it's kind of scary for people to see it's kind of scary for people to see this thing um you know I have a Sony A7 this thing um you know I have a Sony A7 this thing um you know I have a Sony A7 R5 it's a smaller body and then the 24 R5 it's a smaller body and then the 24 R5 it's a smaller body and then the 24 millimeter lens isn't that much bigger millimeter lens isn't that much bigger millimeter lens isn't that much bigger so it's pretty contained and I just kind so it's pretty contained and I just kind so it's pretty contained and I just kind of like I purposefully make myself small of like I purposefully make myself small of like I purposefully make myself small and I try to make myself and I try to make myself and I try to make myself approachable um you'll notice especially approachable um you'll notice especially approachable um you'll notice especially with photos of kids I get down on their with photos of kids I get down on their with photos of kids I get down on their level I don't stay above them I try to

level I don't stay above them I try to level I don't stay above them I try to get down on their level I make myself get down on their level I make myself get down on their level I make myself approachable I'll even sit cross-legged approachable I'll even sit cross-legged approachable I'll even sit cross-legged on the floor and like I'll try to get on the floor and like I'll try to get on the floor and like I'll try to get very low and be very very low and be very very low and be very non-threatening um some of the greatest non-threatening um some of the greatest non-threatening um some of the greatest photographers who photographed some photographers who photographed some photographers who photographed some incredible portraits of people that you incredible portraits of people that you incredible portraits of people that you know you would be shocked uh it's they know you would be shocked uh it's they know you would be shocked uh it's they purposefully will try to sometimes purposefully will try to sometimes purposefully will try to sometimes they're putting the person they're they're putting the person they're they're putting the person they're photographing on a higher level than photographing on a higher level than photographing on a higher level than them because it's already intimidating them because it's already intimidating them because it's already intimidating enough you want them to feel comfortable enough you want them to feel comfortable enough you want them to feel comfortable with you so when I'm shooting close when with you so when I'm shooting close when with you so when I'm shooting close when I'm getting into the thick of it I'm I'm getting into the thick of it I'm I'm getting into the thick of it I'm trying to make myself feel like I'm just trying to make myself feel like I'm just trying to make myself feel like I'm just one of them and I'm just you know I'm one of them and I'm just you know I'm one of them and I'm just you know I'm smiling I might be even chatting a smiling I might be even chatting a smiling I might be even chatting a little bit but I'm like holding my little bit but I'm like holding my little bit but I'm like holding my camera here or like sometimes I'll pick camera here or like sometimes I'll pick camera here or like sometimes I'll pick it up but mostly I don't get in the way it up but mostly I don't get in the way it up but mostly I don't get in the way between my face and their face or I between my face and their face or I between my face and their face or I don't cover my face I try to make sure don't cover my face I try to make sure don't cover my face I try to make sure for the most part they just see me as for the most part they just see me as for the most part they just see me as another congregate we talk about telling another congregate we talk about telling another congregate we talk about telling the same story with the lens as you're the same story with the lens as you're the same story with the lens as you're telling with the the subject matter and telling with the the subject matter and telling with the the subject matter and you have this kind of you're describing you have this kind of you're describing you have this kind of you're describing it repeated framing in the shots that it repeated framing in the shots that it repeated framing in the shots that you've done for us where you are you've done for us where you are you've done for us where you are shooting wider and you're like a little shooting wider and you're like a little shooting wider and you're like a little bit below the subject and the camera's bit below the subject and the camera's bit below the subject and the camera's pointed up and famously this is an you pointed up and famously this is an you pointed up and famously this is an you know it's never you you ever opened your know it's never you you ever opened your know it's never you you ever opened your iPhone and had the jump scare of looking iPhone and had the jump scare of looking iPhone and had the jump scare of looking at yourself when it's pointed up on your at yourself when it's pointed up on your at yourself when it's pointed up on your chin you know on a wide angle it's a lot chin you know on a wide angle it's a lot chin you know on a wide angle it's a lot less problematic because the compression less problematic because the compression less problematic because the compression it doesn't like you know like blow up it doesn't like you know like blow up it doesn't like you know like blow up like your under chin like that but I

like your under chin like that but I like your under chin like that but I always have loved doing that type of always have loved doing that type of always have loved doing that type of style of framing for stuff in the church style of framing for stuff in the church style of framing for stuff in the church world because if it's worship if it's world because if it's worship if it's world because if it's worship if it's baptism it's like you know all of Heaven baptism it's like you know all of Heaven baptism it's like you know all of Heaven is rejoicing in this moment and so like is rejoicing in this moment and so like is rejoicing in this moment and so like you know hands raised to the sky eyes you know hands raised to the sky eyes you know hands raised to the sky eyes looking upward as you sing you know looking upward as you sing you know looking upward as you sing you know we're looking up to where does my help we're looking up to where does my help we're looking up to where does my help come from I look my eyes up like it is come from I look my eyes up like it is come from I look my eyes up like it is aligned with that and so it's telling aligned with that and so it's telling aligned with that and so it's telling that story there's that like spiritual that story there's that like spiritual that story there's that like spiritual uh implication and undertone uh implication and undertone uh implication and undertone with the lens and the framing and it with the lens and the framing and it with the lens and the framing and it aligns perfectly with the actual subject aligns perfectly with the actual subject aligns perfectly with the actual subject matter as well I'm not sure if that's matter as well I'm not sure if that's matter as well I'm not sure if that's intentional surely it is um you're an intentional surely it is um you're an intentional surely it is um you're an intelligent man but wanted to ask about intelligent man but wanted to ask about intelligent man but wanted to ask about it either way oh I like how you put it it either way oh I like how you put it it either way oh I like how you put it yeah I like how you put that uh uh I yeah I like how you put that uh uh I yeah I like how you put that uh uh I would say a lot of the reason why I've would say a lot of the reason why I've would say a lot of the reason why I've done it is again if the emphasis is done it is again if the emphasis is done it is again if the emphasis is people and interaction it's kind of that people and interaction it's kind of that people and interaction it's kind of that Marvel Superhero shot you're a little Marvel Superhero shot you're a little Marvel Superhero shot you're a little bit you're a little bit below the bit you're a little bit below the bit you're a little bit below the subject and creates a a sense of subject and creates a a sense of subject and creates a a sense of enormity so if like if we're putting enormity so if like if we're putting enormity so if like if we're putting like the the relationships that people like the the relationships that people like the the relationships that people are having as you put it like their are having as you put it like their are having as you put it like their spiritual connection with God but even spiritual connection with God but even spiritual connection with God but even like the interactions they're having like the interactions they're having like the interactions they're having within the church together that within the church together that within the church together that relationship that make the church the relationship that make the church the relationship that make the church the church it's not the building it's not uh church it's not the building it's not uh church it's not the building it's not uh you know the guitars and the piano and you know the guitars and the piano and you know the guitars and the piano and the drums or whatever is going on it's the drums or whatever is going on it's the drums or whatever is going on it's it's the people in the relationship it's the people in the relationship it's the people in the relationship that's happening and then also the that's happening and then also the that's happening and then also the spiritual aspect that they have with God spiritual aspect that they have with God spiritual aspect that they have with God so what I try to do is by shooting low so what I try to do is by shooting low so what I try to do is by shooting low it also it it signifies creating some it also it it signifies creating some it also it it signifies creating some more enormity of the subject matter and more enormity of the subject matter and more enormity of the subject matter and like there's some greatness there

like there's some greatness there like there's some greatness there there's something um to really uh it there's something um to really uh it there's something um to really uh it really draws your ey in just even how really draws your ey in just even how really draws your ey in just even how you know how compression works and how you know how compression works and how you know how compression works and how um it creates this angle pointing up um it creates this angle pointing up um it creates this angle pointing up kind of like what you're saying yeah you kind of like what you're saying yeah you kind of like what you're saying yeah you know and and we all bear the likeness know and and we all bear the likeness know and and we all bear the likeness and image of God and so like creating and image of God and so like creating and image of God and so like creating that type of structure in the image for that type of structure in the image for that type of structure in the image for that person again if we're looking for that person again if we're looking for that person again if we're looking for like you know scriptural alignment like you know scriptural alignment like you know scriptural alignment spiritual alignment you know you're spiritual alignment you know you're spiritual alignment you know you're showing the enormity of that like that showing the enormity of that like that showing the enormity of that like that is Christ in them I wanted to ask about is Christ in them I wanted to ask about is Christ in them I wanted to ask about you said okay I'm shooting these photos you said okay I'm shooting these photos you said okay I'm shooting these photos of people in the lobby and maybe I'm of people in the lobby and maybe I'm of people in the lobby and maybe I'm giving direction maybe I'm like laughing giving direction maybe I'm like laughing giving direction maybe I'm like laughing along to make basically like hey along to make basically like hey along to make basically like hey acknowledge hey I'm a part of this like acknowledge hey I'm a part of this like acknowledge hey I'm a part of this like don't feel like uncomfortable we're don't feel like uncomfortable we're don't feel like uncomfortable we're having a fun time this is light it's having a fun time this is light it's having a fun time this is light it's Breezy and the whole time you're Breezy and the whole time you're Breezy and the whole time you're shooting and it reminded me of doing shooting and it reminded me of doing shooting and it reminded me of doing stock footage again because we'd go and stock footage again because we'd go and stock footage again because we'd go and we would film and maybe we come back and we would film and maybe we come back and we would film and maybe we come back and there are like you know 187 clips that there are like you know 187 clips that there are like you know 187 clips that we shot and you know Alex is upset cuz we shot and you know Alex is upset cuz we shot and you know Alex is upset cuz he's now going to offload 7 terabytes he's now going to offload 7 terabytes he's now going to offload 7 terabytes onto at least two hard drives and he's onto at least two hard drives and he's onto at least two hard drives and he's like I only have two hard drives and like I only have two hard drives and like I only have two hard drives and only four terabytes each this is one only four terabytes each this is one only four terabytes each this is one scene why do you keep doing this and I'm scene why do you keep doing this and I'm scene why do you keep doing this and I'm like hey don't talk make sure you charge like hey don't talk make sure you charge like hey don't talk make sure you charge eight batteries in this like Cafe that eight batteries in this like Cafe that eight batteries in this like Cafe that hopefully they don't realize do you hopefully they don't realize do you hopefully they don't realize do you remember when we went to get remember when we went to get remember when we went to get brunch oh sorry that was Tristan we went brunch oh sorry that was Tristan we went brunch oh sorry that was Tristan we went to get brunch in Portland Tristan and I to get brunch in Portland Tristan and I to get brunch in Portland Tristan and I with Eric and we had filmed that morning with Eric and we had filmed that morning with Eric and we had filmed that morning and we had to film that evening but we and we had to film that evening but we and we had to film that evening but we didn't have an Airbnb that could check didn't have an Airbnb that could check didn't have an Airbnb that could check in yet so we're in this brunch and we in yet so we're in this brunch and we in yet so we're in this brunch and we say hey do you have an outlet and it was say hey do you have an outlet and it was say hey do you have an outlet and it was like it was like this bougie port brunch like it was like this bougie port brunch like it was like this bougie port brunch place and there's just us at a corner place and there's just us at a corner place and there's just us at a corner table with two of the old Inspire 2 um

table with two of the old Inspire 2 um table with two of the old Inspire 2 um DJI Chargers these are giant batteries DJI Chargers these are giant batteries DJI Chargers these are giant batteries like they're the size of like video like they're the size of like video like they're the size of like video cassettes and we had eight of them cassettes and we had eight of them cassettes and we had eight of them charging and they're like and here are charging and they're like and here are charging and they're like and here are your egg Betty look down in Ireland I your egg Betty look down in Ireland I your egg Betty look down in Ireland I remember me and Tristan traveling with remember me and Tristan traveling with remember me and Tristan traveling with the same situation we had to check we the same situation we had to check we the same situation we had to check we had to we checked into our hotel room we had to we checked into our hotel room we had to we checked into our hotel room we blew the fuse ni they had to come fix it blew the fuse ni they had to come fix it blew the fuse ni they had to come fix it we blew it again to the point where we we blew it again to the point where we we blew it again to the point where we had to call you and say bra we need a had to call you and say bra we need a had to call you and say bra we need a new hotel room because we need to charge new hotel room because we need to charge new hotel room because we need to charge these batteries called I somehow we got these batteries called I somehow we got these batteries called I somehow we got a hold of you and cuz I we didn't have a a hold of you and cuz I we didn't have a a hold of you and cuz I we didn't have a company card back then we're like we company card back then we're like we company card back then we're like we need a we need a new hotel because we need a we need a new hotel because we need a we need a new hotel because we need to charge these batteries we keep need to charge these batteries we keep need to charge these batteries we keep blowing up the the fuses anyways sorry I blowing up the the fuses anyways sorry I blowing up the the fuses anyways sorry I got a little distracted there just just got a little distracted there just just got a little distracted there just just reminiscing um the question was what is reminiscing um the question was what is reminiscing um the question was what is your ratio do you think between good and your ratio do you think between good and your ratio do you think between good and bad because what happens is we had this bad because what happens is we had this bad because what happens is we had this highlight reel of footage and it looks highlight reel of footage and it looks highlight reel of footage and it looks amazing like yeah right but what I did amazing like yeah right but what I did amazing like yeah right but what I did to get that was I just kept hitting to get that was I just kept hitting to get that was I just kept hitting record and I got back and I was like oh record and I got back and I was like oh record and I got back and I was like oh look at that clip and then you keep all look at that clip and then you keep all look at that clip and then you keep all these amazing ones and you look great these amazing ones and you look great these amazing ones and you look great but no one gets to see all that you but no one gets to see all that you but no one gets to see all that you discarded yeah good ratio I've always discarded yeah good ratio I've always discarded yeah good ratio I've always said like if you can land like in 10 to said like if you can land like in 10 to said like if you can land like in 10 to 10 to 20% of all the shots you take end 10 to 20% of all the shots you take end 10 to 20% of all the shots you take end up being good ones like that's pretty up being good ones like that's pretty up being good ones like that's pretty good that's a pretty good ratio whether good that's a pretty good ratio whether good that's a pretty good ratio whether that's that's that's actually good or not I don't know um it actually good or not I don't know um it actually good or not I don't know um it is I think for me my process has been is I think for me my process has been is I think for me my process has been like if like an image I'm going to just like if like an image I'm going to just like if like an image I'm going to just take it like even in even if in the I'd take it like even in even if in the I'd take it like even in even if in the I'd rather have it and then rather have it and then rather have it and then uh in posts like think like oh that

uh in posts like think like oh that uh in posts like think like oh that wasn't that great I wish I did something wasn't that great I wish I did something wasn't that great I wish I did something different then not taking it and wish I different then not taking it and wish I different then not taking it and wish I had um I do shoot especially since I'm had um I do shoot especially since I'm had um I do shoot especially since I'm working with people I shoot and burst a working with people I shoot and burst a working with people I shoot and burst a lot because in a moment's instant lot because in a moment's instant lot because in a moment's instant somebody's facial can expression can go somebody's facial can expression can go somebody's facial can expression can go from oh they'd be proud of this photo to from oh they'd be proud of this photo to from oh they'd be proud of this photo to they would probably not want this they would probably not want this they would probably not want this anywhere um so I do shoot first a lot so anywhere um so I do shoot first a lot so anywhere um so I do shoot first a lot so my percentage is probably pretty high up my percentage is probably pretty high up my percentage is probably pretty high up there when it comes to uh you know there when it comes to uh you know there when it comes to uh you know fast-paced Church fast-paced Church fast-paced Church photography um there are moments I'm way photography um there are moments I'm way photography um there are moments I'm way more thoughtful and I only take a few more thoughtful and I only take a few more thoughtful and I only take a few images at a time some of those are the images at a time some of those are the images at a time some of those are the more establishing those noun shots I more establishing those noun shots I more establishing those noun shots I talked about they're more establishing talked about they're more establishing talked about they're more establishing I'm waiting for certain people to walk I'm waiting for certain people to walk I'm waiting for certain people to walk so they're lined up on a third and then so they're lined up on a third and then so they're lined up on a third and then you kind of have the light coming in you kind of have the light coming in you kind of have the light coming in from this right side and so like there from this right side and so like there from this right side and so like there are times where I'm a little bit more are times where I'm a little bit more are times where I'm a little bit more careful um and or like worship shots I'm careful um and or like worship shots I'm careful um and or like worship shots I'm waiting specifically for when they raise waiting specifically for when they raise waiting specifically for when they raise the guitar up and like the lights the guitar up and like the lights the guitar up and like the lights hitting them like I'm a little bit more hitting them like I'm a little bit more hitting them like I'm a little bit more like meticulous about which shots I'm like meticulous about which shots I'm like meticulous about which shots I'm taking um but when it comes to people taking um but when it comes to people taking um but when it comes to people like in their expressions and trying to like in their expressions and trying to like in their expressions and trying to show authentically who they are I'm show authentically who they are I'm show authentically who they are I'm burst firing I'm taking a whole bunch burst firing I'm taking a whole bunch burst firing I'm taking a whole bunch because I I I want them to have an image because I I I want them to have an image because I I I want them to have an image of themselves with their community that of themselves with their community that of themselves with their community that they feel proud of that's out there uh I they feel proud of that's out there uh I they feel proud of that's out there uh I that's the worst thing is if they see an that's the worst thing is if they see an that's the worst thing is if they see an image and they don't feel good image and they don't feel good image and they don't feel good and it just that's not a dynamic I want and it just that's not a dynamic I want and it just that's not a dynamic I want to do so the most I can do to mitigate to do so the most I can do to mitigate to do so the most I can do to mitigate that is just try to make sure I pick out that is just try to make sure I pick out that is just try to make sure I pick out the most flattering facial expression

the most flattering facial expression the most flattering facial expression that I can um and that will be the one I that I can um and that will be the one I that I can um and that will be the one I send on and you know there might be send on and you know there might be send on and you know there might be eight or nine or 10 other ones that it's eight or nine or 10 other ones that it's eight or nine or 10 other ones that it's like it was close but it's not the best like it was close but it's not the best like it was close but it's not the best that's a pretty good segue into talking that's a pretty good segue into talking that's a pretty good segue into talking about gear you mentioned shooting with about gear you mentioned shooting with about gear you mentioned shooting with the Sony A7 R5 I'm quite familiar with the Sony A7 R5 I'm quite familiar with the Sony A7 R5 I'm quite familiar with the a7r 4 that's the ca that we've the a7r 4 that's the ca that we've the a7r 4 that's the ca that we've always shot with sounds like if you were always shot with sounds like if you were always shot with sounds like if you were thinking about a camera that you wanted thinking about a camera that you wanted thinking about a camera that you wanted to get for a church having that good to get for a church having that good to get for a church having that good buffer so that you can shoot burst mode buffer so that you can shoot burst mode buffer so that you can shoot burst mode and capture all those shots would be and capture all those shots would be and capture all those shots would be important uh low light I imagine would important uh low light I imagine would important uh low light I imagine would also be a big deal we know that Lighting also be a big deal we know that Lighting also be a big deal we know that Lighting in church auditoriums church sanctuaries in church auditoriums church sanctuaries in church auditoriums church sanctuaries is sometimes pretty tricky what are you is sometimes pretty tricky what are you is sometimes pretty tricky what are you looking for um in a camera body uh and looking for um in a camera body uh and looking for um in a camera body uh and feel free to discuss lenses on top of feel free to discuss lenses on top of feel free to discuss lenses on top of that um and why shoot with the Sony A7 that um and why shoot with the Sony A7 that um and why shoot with the Sony A7 R5 and it's you know what is it 1100 R5 and it's you know what is it 1100 R5 and it's you know what is it 1100 megapixels or whatever it is oh close megapixels or whatever it is oh close megapixels or whatever it is oh close it's 62 and but it is taking up 1100 it's 62 and but it is taking up 1100 it's 62 and but it is taking up 1100 million gigabytes worth of space on my million gigabytes worth of space on my million gigabytes worth of space on my hard drives I just had to buy a new one hard drives I just had to buy a new one hard drives I just had to buy a new one this past week because I was like I I've this past week because I was like I I've this past week because I was like I I've got I need more space one photo is 120 got I need more space one photo is 120 got I need more space one photo is 120 megabytes from that thing and that's megabytes from that thing and that's megabytes from that thing and that's just not sustainable so I will say uh if just not sustainable so I will say uh if just not sustainable so I will say uh if you're shooting Church photography or you're shooting Church photography or you're shooting Church photography or where there will be a lot of images where there will be a lot of images where there will be a lot of images don't go with the of an R5 it would not don't go with the of an R5 it would not don't go with the of an R5 it would not be my first choice I shoot on it because be my first choice I shoot on it because be my first choice I shoot on it because my love and joy in photography is my love and joy in photography is my love and joy in photography is cityscapes its Landscapes it's um it is cityscapes its Landscapes it's um it is cityscapes its Landscapes it's um it is the more meticulous planned out shots

the more meticulous planned out shots the more meticulous planned out shots where I thought three weeks ahead to be where I thought three weeks ahead to be where I thought three weeks ahead to be able to get this one um so I want all able to get this one um so I want all able to get this one um so I want all the P the pixels to be able to work with the P the pixels to be able to work with the P the pixels to be able to work with um so when it comes to bodies I would um so when it comes to bodies I would um so when it comes to bodies I would like for the most part what you can get like for the most part what you can get like for the most part what you can get out there today they're all so out there today they're all so out there today they're all so phenomenal like Canon's doing such a phenomenal like Canon's doing such a phenomenal like Canon's doing such a great job Sony's doing a wonderful job I great job Sony's doing a wonderful job I great job Sony's doing a wonderful job I have a huge place in my heart for Fuji have a huge place in my heart for Fuji have a huge place in my heart for Fuji for multiple reasons I just love working for multiple reasons I just love working for multiple reasons I just love working with Fuji it's one of the few cameras with Fuji it's one of the few cameras with Fuji it's one of the few cameras that I actually will like I'll flip it that I actually will like I'll flip it that I actually will like I'll flip it to jpeg mode and I'll just shoot in jpeg to jpeg mode and I'll just shoot in jpeg to jpeg mode and I'll just shoot in jpeg sometimes without even worrying about sometimes without even worrying about sometimes without even worrying about rots because I just love how it looks rots because I just love how it looks rots because I just love how it looks right out of camera um they're uh also right out of camera um they're uh also right out of camera um they're uh also solo profile they almost look like a solo profile they almost look like a solo profile they almost look like a film camera uh that I've gotten away film camera uh that I've gotten away film camera uh that I've gotten away with shooting in places where they're with shooting in places where they're with shooting in places where they're like oh then we don't allow photography like oh then we don't allow photography like oh then we don't allow photography here but I've been able to get in here but I've been able to get in here but I've been able to get in because they're like oh I'm just a film because they're like oh I'm just a film because they're like oh I'm just a film I shouldn't probably endorse that I've I shouldn't probably endorse that I've I shouldn't probably endorse that I've lied lied lied but I'm just a film student like with my but I'm just a film student like with my but I'm just a film student like with my little camera here and like you can get little camera here and like you can get little camera here and like you can get around and it's just so not intimidating around and it's just so not intimidating around and it's just so not intimidating I used to photograph like a lot of kids I used to photograph like a lot of kids I used to photograph like a lot of kids like and a lot of my trips I've done like and a lot of my trips I've done like and a lot of my trips I've done overseas where it is more sensitive overseas where it is more sensitive overseas where it is more sensitive subject matter I use it because it's subject matter I use it because it's subject matter I use it because it's very very very inconspicuous um so yes in some ways inconspicuous um so yes in some ways inconspicuous um so yes in some ways bodies can contribute so much to um what bodies can contribute so much to um what bodies can contribute so much to um what you're doing within the church I would you're doing within the church I would you're doing within the church I would look for yeah 24 megapixels is great 20 look for yeah 24 megapixels is great 20 look for yeah 24 megapixels is great 20 megapixel like for most of what your megapixel like for most of what your megapixel like for most of what your photography is going to be used for in photography is going to be used for in photography is going to be used for in church church church context the megapixels don't really context the megapixels don't really context the megapixels don't really matter as much um you do want something

matter as much um you do want something matter as much um you do want something that can shoot low light but what's that can shoot low light but what's that can shoot low light but what's really going to get you there are lenses really going to get you there are lenses really going to get you there are lenses lenses I think they're the investment lenses I think they're the investment lenses I think they're the investment piece if I had to pick between what I'm piece if I had to pick between what I'm piece if I had to pick between what I'm going to put more of my money in I'm G going to put more of my money in I'm G going to put more of my money in I'm G to get a really good lens because that's to get a really good lens because that's to get a really good lens because that's going to last me past several camera going to last me past several camera going to last me past several camera bodies if I keep refreshing what I'm bodies if I keep refreshing what I'm bodies if I keep refreshing what I'm getting with my bodies um but a good getting with my bodies um but a good getting with my bodies um but a good lens so I try to shoot for something lens so I try to shoot for something lens so I try to shoot for something that is like a 2.8 or faster or it like that is like a 2.8 or faster or it like that is like a 2.8 or faster or it like a has a wider aperture um my kit is a a has a wider aperture um my kit is a a has a wider aperture um my kit is a 24mm 1.4 a 50 mm 1.2 and the 70 to 200 24mm 1.4 a 50 mm 1.2 and the 70 to 200 24mm 1.4 a 50 mm 1.2 and the 70 to 200 uh 2.8 uh when you're shooting in low uh 2.8 uh when you're shooting in low uh 2.8 uh when you're shooting in low light situations uh having something light situations uh having something light situations uh having something that has a wider apture than 3.5 is that has a wider apture than 3.5 is that has a wider apture than 3.5 is going to be your best friend um a lot of going to be your best friend um a lot of going to be your best friend um a lot of My Worship stuff I try to shoot I shoot My Worship stuff I try to shoot I shoot My Worship stuff I try to shoot I shoot pretty wide open I'm barely shooting pretty wide open I'm barely shooting pretty wide open I'm barely shooting higher than uh F2 like it's it's mostly higher than uh F2 like it's it's mostly higher than uh F2 like it's it's mostly in that 1.2 to two range that I'm in that 1.2 to two range that I'm in that 1.2 to two range that I'm shooting so a good lens is really shooting so a good lens is really shooting so a good lens is really important to getting uh the most out of important to getting uh the most out of important to getting uh the most out of your camera body uh that's where I would your camera body uh that's where I would your camera body uh that's where I would invest most of my money and effort in invest most of my money and effort in invest most of my money and effort in what I'm building a a kit you're what I'm building a a kit you're what I'm building a a kit you're shooting 1.2 shooting 1.2 shooting 1.2 1.8 how are you managing the challenges 1.8 how are you managing the challenges 1.8 how are you managing the challenges of focus when you're when you're so wide of focus when you're when you're so wide of focus when you're when you're so wide open do you find oh reviewing the the open do you find oh reviewing the the open do you find oh reviewing the the clips calling all the all the shots and clips calling all the all the shots and clips calling all the all the shots and oh like a lot of them are out of focus

oh like a lot of them are out of focus oh like a lot of them are out of focus or you know you're just expert level god or you know you're just expert level god or you know you're just expert level god mode never miss uh autofocus is a really mode never miss uh autofocus is a really mode never miss uh autofocus is a really great friend of mine um but it's uh yeah great friend of mine um but it's uh yeah great friend of mine um but it's uh yeah you'll have some hit and miss here or you'll have some hit and miss here or you'll have some hit and miss here or there but for the most part like there but for the most part like there but for the most part like autofocus on newer camera bodies have I autofocus on newer camera bodies have I autofocus on newer camera bodies have I got to say have grown Leaps and Bounds got to say have grown Leaps and Bounds got to say have grown Leaps and Bounds especially with the miror the especially with the miror the especially with the miror the introduction of mirrorless cameras um introduction of mirrorless cameras um introduction of mirrorless cameras um you're you're getting so many Focus you're you're getting so many Focus you're you're getting so many Focus points in these new camera sensors that points in these new camera sensors that points in these new camera sensors that you're just able to get pretty Sharp you're just able to get pretty Sharp you're just able to get pretty Sharp Images um and sometimes for me and with Images um and sometimes for me and with Images um and sometimes for me and with my worship phot photography music my worship phot photography music my worship phot photography music Photography in general it's so much more Photography in general it's so much more Photography in general it's so much more about the momentum in the moment and the about the momentum in the moment and the about the momentum in the moment and the the feelings and the emotion that yes the feelings and the emotion that yes the feelings and the emotion that yes sharp is good get sharp but sometimes sharp is good get sharp but sometimes sharp is good get sharp but sometimes blurry and sometimes the shutter drag blurry and sometimes the shutter drag blurry and sometimes the shutter drag and sometimes the if the moment is good and sometimes the if the moment is good and sometimes the if the moment is good it's worth looking past what you would it's worth looking past what you would it's worth looking past what you would see as mistakes uh it's one of the see as mistakes uh it's one of the see as mistakes uh it's one of the biggest things I've learned as a biggest things I've learned as a biggest things I've learned as a photographer is it's so much more about photographer is it's so much more about photographer is it's so much more about did you capture the emotion in the did you capture the emotion in the did you capture the emotion in the moment right more so did you technically moment right more so did you technically moment right more so did you technically get all the per things perfect um and get all the per things perfect um and get all the per things perfect um and being able to do that and then also being able to do that and then also being able to do that and then also exemplifying that even further in the exemplifying that even further in the exemplifying that even further in the editing process of did I capture the editing process of did I capture the editing process of did I capture the emotion and if I did so then I did my emotion and if I did so then I did my emotion and if I did so then I did my job as a photographer When you mention job as a photographer When you mention job as a photographer When you mention editing process that is going to be the editing process that is going to be the editing process that is going to be the uh next episode that we do with you uh next episode that we do with you uh next episode that we do with you we're going to have you share your

we're going to have you share your we're going to have you share your screen live on the show we'll have you screen live on the show we'll have you screen live on the show we'll have you in Lightroom we'll be going through in Lightroom we'll be going through in Lightroom we'll be going through images raw and then you're going to show images raw and then you're going to show images raw and then you're going to show us exactly what you do to get them to us exactly what you do to get them to us exactly what you do to get them to edited um as a tease you know I know edited um as a tease you know I know edited um as a tease you know I know there is also one more piece of of gear there is also one more piece of of gear there is also one more piece of of gear uh several pieces of gear that you uh several pieces of gear that you uh several pieces of gear that you frequently use to capture some of these frequently use to capture some of these frequently use to capture some of these images and we'll dive deeper into that images and we'll dive deeper into that images and we'll dive deeper into that on the next episode Benjamin so grateful on the next episode Benjamin so grateful on the next episode Benjamin so grateful for your time sharing all your wisdom for your time sharing all your wisdom for your time sharing all your wisdom with us where can people keep up with with us where can people keep up with with us where can people keep up with what you're doing um and if there are what you're doing um and if there are what you're doing um and if there are any other you know parts of your any other you know parts of your any other you know parts of your professional life that you want to share professional life that you want to share professional life that you want to share that can equip the church please tell us that can equip the church please tell us that can equip the church please tell us yes so while I still have a passion for yes so while I still have a passion for yes so while I still have a passion for photography I do it a lot it is not my photography I do it a lot it is not my photography I do it a lot it is not my current full-time position right now I current full-time position right now I current full-time position right now I do a lot of the uh marketing and cop do a lot of the uh marketing and cop do a lot of the uh marketing and cop copyrighting for uh a nice little copyrighting for uh a nice little copyrighting for uh a nice little nonprofit called braving bird uh we're nonprofit called braving bird uh we're nonprofit called braving bird uh we're located here in Chicago but we create a located here in Chicago but we create a located here in Chicago but we create a lot of free films for churches lot of free films for churches lot of free films for churches individuals organizations to use that we individuals organizations to use that we individuals organizations to use that we try to approach difficult subjects try to approach difficult subjects try to approach difficult subjects through uh highly Visual and highly um through uh highly Visual and highly um through uh highly Visual and highly um uh focused storytelling to be able to uh focused storytelling to be able to uh focused storytelling to be able to bring words in a level of connection bring words in a level of connection bring words in a level of connection people can have in the form of short people can have in the form of short people can have in the form of short films uh so everything's available to films uh so everything's available to films uh so everything's available to download for free on our site and download for free on our site and download for free on our site and everything is uh all checked it's all everything is uh all checked it's all everything is uh all checked it's all original so you can broadcast it it can original so you can broadcast it it can original so you can broadcast it it can be used in so many sorts of manner be used in so many sorts of manner be used in so many sorts of manner because it's all propri proprietary to because it's all propri proprietary to because it's all propri proprietary to us um love for you to check it out yeah us um love for you to check it out yeah us um love for you to check it out yeah braving bird like when Alex was braving

braving bird like when Alex was braving braving bird like when Alex was braving the storm of Ireland when he visited to the storm of Ireland when he visited to the storm of Ireland when he visited to shoot stock footage during a hurricane shoot stock footage during a hurricane shoot stock footage during a hurricane braving bird.com braving bird.com yeah braving bird.com braving bird.com yeah braving bird.com braving bird.com yeah and again this is like a mini movie site and again this is like a mini movie site and again this is like a mini movie site for churches except it's all free so go for churches except it's all free so go for churches except it's all free so go there sign up download the mini movies there sign up download the mini movies there sign up download the mini movies they're all beautiful you don't have to they're all beautiful you don't have to they're all beautiful you don't have to pay for them amazing nonprofit light pay for them amazing nonprofit light pay for them amazing nonprofit light work thank you for that Benjamin thank work thank you for that Benjamin thank work thank you for that Benjamin thank you to braving bird check him out thank you to braving bird check him out thank you to braving bird check him out thank you for your time attention and Trust you for your time attention and Trust you for your time attention and Trust we'll talk to you next week see one we'll talk to you next week see one we'll talk to you next week see one shirt wow crazy Back to the Future as shirt wow crazy Back to the Future as shirt wow crazy Back to the Future as they say you didn't see it coming did they say you didn't see it coming did they say you didn't see it coming did have to get it tailored twice though was have to get it tailored twice though was have to get it tailored twice though was so long then I was like is this too so long then I was like is this too so long then I was like is this too short you need to go see my guy on short you need to go see my guy on short you need to go see my guy on my guy is Amed my guy they're both Amed my guy is Amed my guy they're both Amed my guy is Amed my guy they're both Amed that is kind of strange yep ammed sold that is kind of strange yep ammed sold that is kind of strange yep ammed sold to ammed yeah yeah right not the two to ammed yeah yeah right not the two to ammed yeah yeah right not the two Taylor exist at the same day but that Taylor exist at the same day but that Taylor exist at the same day but that the one sold his Taylor practice to the the one sold his Taylor practice to the the one sold his Taylor practice to the other and still says fast stitch on the other and still says fast stitch on the other and still says fast stitch on the building on the Marquee ner H I'm pretty building on the Marquee ner H I'm pretty building on the Marquee ner H I'm pretty sure okay we need to figure that out sure okay we need to figure that out sure okay we need to figure that out there's no way if that's true there's a there's no way if that's true there's a there's no way if that's true there's a lawsuit coming