Why I Never Became A Pastor, No Days Off In Ministry, & Church PR Nightmares

Maybe we don't have as much in common as Maybe we don't have as much in common as I thought. So he just like gives me a I thought. So he just like gives me a I thought. So he just like gives me a gasoline can. It's I'm just sensitive. gasoline can. It's I'm just sensitive. gasoline can. It's I'm just sensitive. I'm I'm a little baby boy. Alexander's I'm I'm a little baby boy. Alexander's I'm I'm a little baby boy. Alexander's tummy hurts. Well, tummy hurts. Well, tummy hurts. Well, hey there and welcome to the Pro Church hey there and welcome to the Pro Church hey there and welcome to the Pro Church Tools Show. We're here to help you and Tools Show. We're here to help you and Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest your church navigate the biggest your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Shearer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. We call him the always by my co-host. We call him the always by my co-host. We call him the Heaven Bound Horologist. It's Alexander Heaven Bound Horologist. It's Alexander Heaven Bound Horologist. It's Alexander Mills. Mills. Mills. Hello. Hello. We've got four great Hello. Hello. We've got four great Hello. Hello. We've got four great questions from the people of Pro Church questions from the people of Pro Church questions from the people of Pro Church Nation today. If you want your question Nation today. If you want your question Nation today. If you want your question answered, answered, answered, send us a text to 1-800-485- send us a text to 1-800-485- send us a text to 1-800-485- 3139. Brief contest update. We are going 3139. Brief contest update. We are going 3139. Brief contest update. We are going to announce the winners of the Pro to announce the winners of the Pro to announce the winners of the Pro Church Tools Summer Giveaway 2023 on Church Tools Summer Giveaway 2023 on Church Tools Summer Giveaway 2023 on next week's show. So that's next next week's show. So that's next next week's show. So that's next Wednesday, August 2nd, we'll announce Wednesday, August 2nd, we'll announce Wednesday, August 2nd, we'll announce the winners. Three prizes being given the winners. Three prizes being given the winners. Three prizes being given away. A brief reminder. The first prize, away. A brief reminder. The first prize, away. A brief reminder. The first prize, a brand new DJI Mini drone, plus $500 of a brand new DJI Mini drone, plus $500 of a brand new DJI Mini drone, plus $500 of Nucleus credit on your account, either Nucleus credit on your account, either Nucleus credit on your account, either existing or new, plus a free Nucleus existing or new, plus a free Nucleus existing or new, plus a free Nucleus Universe, which is where we actually Universe, which is where we actually Universe, which is where we actually build your entire site, your plan to build your entire site, your plan to build your entire site, your plan to visit sequence, your new visitor visit sequence, your new visitor visit sequence, your new visitor follow-up sequence, your connect cards, follow-up sequence, your connect cards, follow-up sequence, your connect cards, all that good stuff.

all that good stuff. all that good stuff. That's the first prize. Second prize, That's the first prize. Second prize, That's the first prize. Second prize, all that just without the drone. Third all that just without the drone. Third all that just without the drone. Third prize, all that I guess you can't say prize, all that I guess you can't say prize, all that I guess you can't say all that. It's just the one thing. Just all that. It's just the one thing. Just all that. It's just the one thing. Just the $500 credit on your Nucleus account. the $500 credit on your Nucleus account. the $500 credit on your Nucleus account. It's not just like $500 credit. It's not just like $500 credit. It's not just like $500 credit. Oh, just $500 in credit. Oh, just $500 in credit. Oh, just $500 in credit. Uh Uh Uh I have been seeing all the entries. I have been seeing all the entries. I have been seeing all the entries. There are a lot. So I I I cannot respond There are a lot. So I I I cannot respond There are a lot. So I I I cannot respond to them. I just want to reassure to them. I just want to reassure to them. I just want to reassure everyone listening, if you sent in your everyone listening, if you sent in your everyone listening, if you sent in your entry via text, via email, we have entry via text, via email, we have entry via text, via email, we have received it. Your entry has been received it. Your entry has been received it. Your entry has been counted. Uh no need to worry because oh, counted. Uh no need to worry because oh, counted. Uh no need to worry because oh, I didn't hear back from Brady, maybe my I didn't hear back from Brady, maybe my I didn't hear back from Brady, maybe my entry was unsuccessful. Well, we entry was unsuccessful. Well, we entry was unsuccessful. Well, we we've got it. I just there's like close we've got it. I just there's like close we've got it. I just there's like close to a thousand emails or texts right now. to a thousand emails or texts right now. to a thousand emails or texts right now. It's just not it's not realistic for me It's just not it's not realistic for me It's just not it's not realistic for me to get Sure. the prizes are pretty to get Sure. the prizes are pretty to get Sure. the prizes are pretty popular amongst uh Pro Church Nation popular amongst uh Pro Church Nation popular amongst uh Pro Church Nation because people uh because people uh because people uh is very shortly after they send in their is very shortly after they send in their is very shortly after they send in their entry, they'll be like, oh, by the way, entry, they'll be like, oh, by the way, entry, they'll be like, oh, by the way, when is this being announced? Like Like when is this being announced? Like Like when is this being announced? Like Like I need to know. I need to set a a timer, I need to know. I need to set a a timer, I need to know. I need to set a a timer, a calendar event. I need to know when a calendar event. I need to know when a calendar event. I need to know when this is being announced." So, this is being announced." So, this is being announced." So, people seem very eager to either win the people seem very eager to either win the people seem very eager to either win the drone or the $500 Nucleus credit. Or drone or the $500 Nucleus credit. Or drone or the $500 Nucleus credit. Or everything but everything but everything but just credit.

just credit. just credit. Uh first question on today's show, Uh first question on today's show, Uh first question on today's show, Brady, what's the story behind your Brady, what's the story behind your Brady, what's the story behind your Bible college experience and why did you Bible college experience and why did you Bible college experience and why did you never become a pastor? So, this question never become a pastor? So, this question never become a pastor? So, this question I received a few weeks ago and it I received a few weeks ago and it I received a few weeks ago and it prompted me creating an Instagram prompted me creating an Instagram prompted me creating an Instagram carousel. And that Which my wife loved. carousel. And that Which my wife loved. carousel. And that Which my wife loved. She actually went out of her way to tell She actually went out of her way to tell She actually went out of her way to tell me yesterday. She's like, "I really like me yesterday. She's like, "I really like me yesterday. She's like, "I really like Brady's post today." Well, and your wife Brady's post today." Well, and your wife Brady's post today." Well, and your wife was not alone. was not alone. was not alone. You know, we talk about social and all You know, we talk about social and all You know, we talk about social and all the the the all the variables that make up a all the variables that make up a all the variables that make up a successful post, a post that resonates successful post, a post that resonates successful post, a post that resonates with your audience. And a lot of the with your audience. And a lot of the with your audience. And a lot of the time, you might have like a sense or a time, you might have like a sense or a time, you might have like a sense or a feeling for what might do well. But, to feeling for what might do well. But, to feeling for what might do well. But, to give a little bit of context, this post give a little bit of context, this post give a little bit of context, this post went live went live went live uh last Tuesday. So, 8 days ago. And uh last Tuesday. So, 8 days ago. And uh last Tuesday. So, 8 days ago. And the day before, last Monday, I published the day before, last Monday, I published the day before, last Monday, I published a reel with the title Why Threads Is a reel with the title Why Threads Is a reel with the title Why Threads Is Doomed. Doomed. Doomed. And that post, which I was like, "This And that post, which I was like, "This And that post, which I was like, "This is very timely." is very timely." is very timely." Yeah. People love timely content, where Yeah. People love timely content, where Yeah. People love timely content, where you jump on top of like a cultural you jump on top of like a cultural you jump on top of like a cultural event, especially if it's an event, especially if it's an event, especially if it's an industry-specific cultural event. It was industry-specific cultural event. It was industry-specific cultural event. It was not a well-performing post by our not a well-performing post by our not a well-performing post by our standards. So, it got, as of right now, standards. So, it got, as of right now, standards. So, it got, as of right now, 335 likes.

335 likes. 335 likes. And I I would say the views, but that's And I I would say the views, but that's And I I would say the views, but that's not really comparable to the carousel not really comparable to the carousel not really comparable to the carousel post published the next day. I published post published the next day. I published post published the next day. I published this carousel post. I published it at this carousel post. I published it at this carousel post. I published it at 8:30 a.m. Normally, I publish between 8:30 a.m. Normally, I publish between 8:30 a.m. Normally, I publish between 9:00 and 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Published 9:00 and 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Published 9:00 and 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Published it a bit early because I had something it a bit early because I had something it a bit early because I had something to run to. Uh Lil is at church camp this to run to. Uh Lil is at church camp this to run to. Uh Lil is at church camp this week. So, I had to drop her off at week. So, I had to drop her off at week. So, I had to drop her off at church camp. Wanted to get this post church camp. Wanted to get this post church camp. Wanted to get this post published. By the time I had driven 8 published. By the time I had driven 8 published. By the time I had driven 8 minutes down the street to church, minutes down the street to church, minutes down the street to church, is overheated. is overheated. is overheated. Yeah, because it already had more likes Yeah, because it already had more likes Yeah, because it already had more likes in 8 minutes than the thread post from in 8 minutes than the thread post from in 8 minutes than the thread post from the day before that had been live for 24 the day before that had been live for 24 the day before that had been live for 24 hours. hours. hours. And I was like, "Carousel posts usually And I was like, "Carousel posts usually And I was like, "Carousel posts usually have a bit of a slow burn. I don't I have a bit of a slow burn. I don't I have a bit of a slow burn. I don't I don't know why. That's just discovery don't know why. That's just discovery don't know why. That's just discovery algorithms nowadays. And I was like, algorithms nowadays. And I was like, algorithms nowadays. And I was like, why? As of now, it's got 5,696 why? As of now, it's got 5,696 why? As of now, it's got 5,696 likes, which is more I think than any likes, which is more I think than any likes, which is more I think than any carousel post we've ever done. And if carousel post we've ever done. And if carousel post we've ever done. And if you look at the insights, unlike a reel you look at the insights, unlike a reel you look at the insights, unlike a reel that might reach a lot of non-followers, that might reach a lot of non-followers, that might reach a lot of non-followers, 43,000 43,000 43,000 followers reached, 2,000 non-followers. followers reached, 2,000 non-followers. followers reached, 2,000 non-followers. Yeah, so as far as like Yeah, so as far as like Yeah, so as far as like discovery goes, it's not being pushed in discovery goes, it's not being pushed in discovery goes, it's not being pushed in the same way that reels does to your the same way that reels does to your the same way that reels does to your non-audience, but it got hammered to non-audience, but it got hammered to non-audience, but it got hammered to your actual audience. And what then is your actual audience. And what then is your actual audience. And what then is the takeaway? Clearly, my story the takeaway? Clearly, my story the takeaway? Clearly, my story resonated with Pro Church Nation. And resonated with Pro Church Nation. And resonated with Pro Church Nation. And so, I wanted because a lot of people ask so, I wanted because a lot of people ask so, I wanted because a lot of people ask questions, what do you mean by this questions, what do you mean by this questions, what do you mean by this term? What does that mean? Cuz it's term? What does that mean? Cuz it's term? What does that mean? Cuz it's it's, you know, it's 10 slides. It's it's, you know, it's 10 slides. It's it's, you know, it's 10 slides. It's sentences of two on each slide. There sentences of two on each slide. There sentences of two on each slide. There isn't much in a carousel post relative isn't much in a carousel post relative isn't much in a carousel post relative to how we can discuss something in depth to how we can discuss something in depth to how we can discuss something in depth back and forth. So, we wanted to go a back and forth. So, we wanted to go a back and forth. So, we wanted to go a bit deeper into that and respond to some bit deeper into that and respond to some bit deeper into that and respond to some of the questions that folks had. So, of the questions that folks had. So, of the questions that folks had. So, I went to Bible college to be a pastor.

I went to Bible college to be a pastor. I went to Bible college to be a pastor. You went to the same Bible college. You went to the same Bible college. You went to the same Bible college. Well, did we? We did, just not at the Well, did we? We did, just not at the Well, did we? We did, just not at the same place or the same time, really. same place or the same time, really. same place or the same time, really. Right. You were a few years after. I was Right. You were a few years after. I was Right. You were a few years after. I was on campus, you were in my parents' on campus, you were in my parents' on campus, you were in my parents' basement. Wow. basement. Wow. basement. Wow. I mean, virtually identical experiences. I mean, virtually identical experiences. I mean, virtually identical experiences. As you will learn, here's why these As you will learn, here's why these As you will learn, here's why these weren't identical experiences, because weren't identical experiences, because weren't identical experiences, because the thing that marked me most at Bible the thing that marked me most at Bible the thing that marked me most at Bible college was not the on-campus studies, college was not the on-campus studies, college was not the on-campus studies, but the relationships that were formed but the relationships that were formed but the relationships that were formed via internships or placements. So, I'm via internships or placements. So, I'm via internships or placements. So, I'm studying to be a youth pastor. I studying to be a youth pastor. I studying to be a youth pastor. I graduated with honors. Shouts to Mom, graduated with honors. Shouts to Mom, graduated with honors. Shouts to Mom, she made me. she made me. she made me. Very nice. Uh Very nice. Uh Very nice. Uh bachelor's of theology and youth bachelor's of theology and youth bachelor's of theology and youth ministry. ministry. ministry. The plan was to become a youth pastor. I The plan was to become a youth pastor. I The plan was to become a youth pastor. I went to church and didn't really care went to church and didn't really care went to church and didn't really care for it, found my passion for God and for it, found my passion for God and for it, found my passion for God and church in youth ministry. And so, I was church in youth ministry. And so, I was church in youth ministry. And so, I was like, if I could pass this on to the like, if I could pass this on to the like, if I could pass this on to the next generation, be what my youth pastor next generation, be what my youth pastor next generation, be what my youth pastor was to me, like that would be amazing. was to me, like that would be amazing. was to me, like that would be amazing. What an honor and a privilege. So, I go What an honor and a privilege. So, I go What an honor and a privilege. So, I go off to school off to school off to school and in my second year, my internship is and in my second year, my internship is and in my second year, my internship is not in the context of youth ministry. My not in the context of youth ministry. My not in the context of youth ministry. My first year internship was. My second first year internship was. My second first year internship was. My second year internship was at a new church year internship was at a new church year internship was at a new church plant plant plant and I was the media director.

and I was the media director. and I was the media director. 20 hours a week, half time, getting paid 20 hours a week, half time, getting paid 20 hours a week, half time, getting paid 1,200 bucks a month. 1,200 bucks a month. 1,200 bucks a month. Nice. Nice. Nice. Uh revolutionary experience for me Uh revolutionary experience for me Uh revolutionary experience for me because up until this point, I had because up until this point, I had because up until this point, I had volunteered exclusively in church. To volunteered exclusively in church. To volunteered exclusively in church. To receive a paycheck from a church was receive a paycheck from a church was receive a paycheck from a church was like like like mind-bending. mind-bending. mind-bending. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't really have any skills at And I didn't really have any skills at And I didn't really have any skills at the time, but the pastor's like, "Hey, the time, but the pastor's like, "Hey, the time, but the pastor's like, "Hey, here's a camera. We're new church plant. here's a camera. We're new church plant. here's a camera. We're new church plant. So, look, the standards aren't high, but So, look, the standards aren't high, but So, look, the standards aren't high, but we'd like to, you know, have a website we'd like to, you know, have a website we'd like to, you know, have a website and do some photos, make some videos and do some photos, make some videos and do some photos, make some videos really, like make some video really, like make some video really, like make some video announcements, make a vision video. We announcements, make a vision video. We announcements, make a vision video. We should probably have a Facebook account. should probably have a Facebook account. should probably have a Facebook account. That's a thing. Hey, we're going to That's a thing. Hey, we're going to That's a thing. Hey, we're going to start a podcast. We're going to do all start a podcast. We're going to do all start a podcast. We're going to do all these things." Did you choose the media these things." Did you choose the media these things." Did you choose the media discipline or did it get like assigned discipline or did it get like assigned discipline or did it get like assigned to you? Well, to you? Well, to you? Well, I was doing the youth group thing and I was doing the youth group thing and I was doing the youth group thing and then there was some church drama, which then there was some church drama, which then there was some church drama, which was kind of my first exposure to church was kind of my first exposure to church was kind of my first exposure to church drama. And so, like the youth pastor drama. And so, like the youth pastor drama. And so, like the youth pastor that I was interning under left the that I was interning under left the that I was interning under left the church. church. church. Okay. And so, then I'm Okay. And so, then I'm Okay. And so, then I'm It was really awkward time, frankly, It was really awkward time, frankly, It was really awkward time, frankly, because we didn't go home, my girlfriend because we didn't go home, my girlfriend because we didn't go home, my girlfriend and I, now my wife and I, we stayed in and I, now my wife and I, we stayed in and I, now my wife and I, we stayed in Edmonton, which is like moving from New Edmonton, which is like moving from New Edmonton, which is like moving from New York to Montana, like in terms of York to Montana, like in terms of York to Montana, like in terms of distance. distance. distance. We didn't go home that first year We didn't go home that first year We didn't go home that first year summer. So, in between first in between summer. So, in between first in between summer. So, in between first in between first and second year, we didn't go first and second year, we didn't go first and second year, we didn't go home. We stayed because we were going to home. We stayed because we were going to home. We stayed because we were going to be billeting with the church and working be billeting with the church and working be billeting with the church and working through this like grant full-time through this like grant full-time through this like grant full-time through the summer.

through the summer. through the summer. About a 1 month in, the youth pastor About a 1 month in, the youth pastor About a 1 month in, the youth pastor has a falling out and suddenly we're has a falling out and suddenly we're has a falling out and suddenly we're billeting with people in the church and billeting with people in the church and billeting with people in the church and they're like, "You're associated with they're like, "You're associated with they're like, "You're associated with him." him." him." Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. And so, suddenly our our jobs like we we And so, suddenly our our jobs like we we And so, suddenly our our jobs like we we just we just fired. So, we just didn't just we just fired. So, we just didn't just we just fired. So, we just didn't have jobs anymore. have jobs anymore. have jobs anymore. So, my wife miraculously starts working So, my wife miraculously starts working So, my wife miraculously starts working at Home Depot. She gets her apron. I'm at Home Depot. She gets her apron. I'm at Home Depot. She gets her apron. I'm just doing odd jobs. just doing odd jobs. just doing odd jobs. Like I remember working at a guy's Like I remember working at a guy's Like I remember working at a guy's house, like clearing bush in the house, like clearing bush in the house, like clearing bush in the backyard. backyard. backyard. Okay, so actually odd jobs. Okay, so actually odd jobs. Okay, so actually odd jobs. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, "We just need Yeah, yeah. And he's like, "We just need Yeah, yeah. And he's like, "We just need to burn all the bush." And I was like, to burn all the bush." And I was like, to burn all the bush." And I was like, great. I literally have no experience great. I literally have no experience great. I literally have no experience doing any of this. So, he just like doing any of this. So, he just like doing any of this. So, he just like gives me a gasoline can. gives me a gasoline can. gives me a gasoline can. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. And I remember being like, okay, I guess And I remember being like, okay, I guess And I remember being like, okay, I guess I'm pouring the gas out here. I started I'm pouring the gas out here. I started I'm pouring the gas out here. I started up. I like burned all the hair off my up. I like burned all the hair off my up. I like burned all the hair off my legs. Now, here's the great news. I legs. Now, here's the great news. I legs. Now, here's the great news. I don't have much to begin with. But, that don't have much to begin with. But, that don't have much to begin with. But, that was, you know, a tough day and covered was, you know, a tough day and covered was, you know, a tough day and covered in like thorns from just pulling weeds in like thorns from just pulling weeds in like thorns from just pulling weeds in the bush. So, I did that one day, in the bush. So, I did that one day, in the bush. So, I did that one day, made some money. I started working at made some money. I started working at made some money. I started working at this production company like just this production company like just this production company like just hauling gear. Okay. But, like I had no hauling gear. Okay. But, like I had no hauling gear. Okay. But, like I had no experience hauling gear and like I was experience hauling gear and like I was experience hauling gear and like I was always afraid I was going to hurt myself always afraid I was going to hurt myself always afraid I was going to hurt myself and like we're, you know, like and like we're, you know, like and like we're, you know, like you know, movers. Like, okay, we're you know, movers. Like, okay, we're you know, movers. Like, okay, we're going to do this thing. If anyone drops going to do this thing. If anyone drops going to do this thing. If anyone drops this, we're all dead. Like I was and it this, we're all dead. Like I was and it this, we're all dead. Like I was and it was like waking up at 4:00 a.m. to like was like waking up at 4:00 a.m. to like was like waking up at 4:00 a.m. to like clear the concert from the night before.

clear the concert from the night before. clear the concert from the night before. That was no fun at all. I That was no fun at all. I That was no fun at all. I was miserable. was miserable. was miserable. No car. No car. No car. Wow, those were tough times for you. Not Wow, those were tough times for you. Not Wow, those were tough times for you. Not living in the city, like living in a living in the city, like living in a living in the city, like living in a remote commuter village. Like you remote commuter village. Like you remote commuter village. Like you couldn't walk anywhere to do anything. couldn't walk anywhere to do anything. couldn't walk anywhere to do anything. And I don't think the people I was And I don't think the people I was And I don't think the people I was living with necessarily cared for me at living with necessarily cared for me at living with necessarily cared for me at the time. I also was not the most mature the time. I also was not the most mature the time. I also was not the most mature individual. And so, although I was individual. And so, although I was individual. And so, although I was living with their son who was in the living with their son who was in the living with their son who was in the youth group and we we we had a lot of youth group and we we we had a lot of youth group and we we we had a lot of fun. We would just play like NHL 2K fun. We would just play like NHL 2K fun. We would just play like NHL 2K whatever until like 3:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. whatever until like 3:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. whatever until like 3:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. each night. They were like, man, this each night. They were like, man, this each night. They were like, man, this guy was supposed to be like helping the guy was supposed to be like helping the guy was supposed to be like helping the youth and now he's just this bum. youth and now he's just this bum. youth and now he's just this bum. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. So, So, So, my youth pastor my youth pastor my youth pastor who had the falling out. The disgraced who had the falling out. The disgraced who had the falling out. The disgraced one, yeah. one, yeah. one, yeah. Listen. Listen. Listen. That's my telling of the story. That's my telling of the story. That's my telling of the story. I mean he had a friend. Okay. And they had both he had a friend. Okay. And they had both gone to the same Bible college that I gone to the same Bible college that I gone to the same Bible college that I had gone to or was going to. But, they had gone to or was going to. But, they had gone to or was going to. But, they they went 10 years earlier. So, he so, they went 10 years earlier. So, he so, they went 10 years earlier. So, he so, he's starting this new church. he's starting this new church. he's starting this new church. My disgraced Alex's word. My disgraced Alex's word. My disgraced Alex's word. Yes. Youth pastor's friend. He's like, Yes. Youth pastor's friend. He's like, Yes. Youth pastor's friend. He's like, well, well, well, I liked this guy. If he's not going to I liked this guy. If he's not going to I liked this guy. If he's not going to hang out at your church, come bring him hang out at your church, come bring him hang out at your church, come bring him to my church.

to my church. to my church. Okay. And they had a youth pastor. Okay. And they had a youth pastor. Okay. And they had a youth pastor. And so, they're like, well, what can he And so, they're like, well, what can he And so, they're like, well, what can he do? And I was like, I I know. I can burn do? And I was like, I I know. I can burn do? And I was like, I I know. I can burn bush. bush. bush. I mean I can't is the thing. I can burn I mean I can't is the thing. I can burn I mean I can't is the thing. I can burn bush. I can burn myself. bush. I can burn myself. bush. I can burn myself. So, So, So, he's like, "Okay, well, you know, do you he's like, "Okay, well, you know, do you he's like, "Okay, well, you know, do you have any experience with this?" And I have any experience with this?" And I have any experience with this?" And I had taken this communications course in had taken this communications course in had taken this communications course in first year, where they were like, show first year, where they were like, show first year, where they were like, show this this pastor from a church came in this this pastor from a church came in this this pastor from a church came in and he was like, "This is ProPresenter." and he was like, "This is ProPresenter." and he was like, "This is ProPresenter." And I was like, "What is this?" And I was like, "What is this?" And I was like, "What is this?" Yeah. This is the coolest thing ever. Yeah. This is the coolest thing ever. Yeah. This is the coolest thing ever. And so, he's like, "Do you want to do And so, he's like, "Do you want to do And so, he's like, "Do you want to do that?" And I was like, "I would love that?" And I was like, "I would love that?" And I was like, "I would love to." And so, like, you know, this was to." And so, like, you know, this was to." And so, like, you know, this was like the desperate situation that I was like the desperate situation that I was like the desperate situation that I was in. And so, I dive headfirst into all of in. And so, I dive headfirst into all of in. And so, I dive headfirst into all of this. And I start putting together this. And I start putting together this. And I start putting together vision videos, and we started a Facebook vision videos, and we started a Facebook vision videos, and we started a Facebook page, and there are hiccups along the page, and there are hiccups along the page, and there are hiccups along the way, but it's quite successful based on way, but it's quite successful based on way, but it's quite successful based on at least the very low standards that at least the very low standards that at least the very low standards that these pastors had for me. And And they these pastors had for me. And And they these pastors had for me. And And they start to like, "Hey, this is like going start to like, "Hey, this is like going start to like, "Hey, this is like going very, very well." very, very well." very, very well." So much so that all of my pastors and So much so that all of my pastors and So much so that all of my pastors and friends and disgraced former pastor, friends and disgraced former pastor, friends and disgraced former pastor, we're all like in this friend group. we're all like in this friend group. we're all like in this friend group. They're like, "You know, you should They're like, "You know, you should They're like, "You know, you should start like a blog or whatever." Because start like a blog or whatever." Because start like a blog or whatever." Because I'm going to school, and like all of my I'm going to school, and like all of my I'm going to school, and like all of my youth pastor friends, youth pastor friends, youth pastor friends, like I'm like, they're going to be like I'm like, they're going to be like I'm like, they're going to be entrusted, entrusted, entrusted, tasked with these identical tasked with these identical tasked with these identical responsibilities once they end up in responsibilities once they end up in responsibilities once they end up in churches. Like, "Yeah, you're the youth churches. Like, "Yeah, you're the youth churches. Like, "Yeah, you're the youth pastor, but you're also the mhm." Sure.

pastor, but you're also the mhm." Sure. pastor, but you're also the mhm." Sure. We've all had that experience in church. We've all had that experience in church. We've all had that experience in church. Multiple hats. You're the X, but you're Multiple hats. You're the X, but you're Multiple hats. You're the X, but you're also the Y, Z, and whatever letter comes also the Y, Z, and whatever letter comes also the Y, Z, and whatever letter comes after Z. We're going to make them up after Z. We're going to make them up after Z. We're going to make them up because that's what church life is like. because that's what church life is like. because that's what church life is like. So, I start a podcast So, I start a podcast So, I start a podcast 10 years ago. I start a YouTube channel 10 years ago. I start a YouTube channel 10 years ago. I start a YouTube channel 10 years ago. I start a blog 10 years 10 years ago. I start a blog 10 years 10 years ago. I start a blog 10 years ago. Not because I am an expert in ago. Not because I am an expert in ago. Not because I am an expert in anything, but because I knew nothing, anything, but because I knew nothing, anything, but because I knew nothing, was tasked with these responsibilities was tasked with these responsibilities was tasked with these responsibilities in my church, and I started figuring in my church, and I started figuring in my church, and I started figuring them out. I figured if I can figure them them out. I figured if I can figure them them out. I figured if I can figure them out, so can you. out, so can you. out, so can you. The one part of this entire situation The one part of this entire situation The one part of this entire situation that I have not yet described is that I that I have not yet described is that I that I have not yet described is that I was relieved when I no longer was relieved when I no longer was relieved when I no longer was serving full-time in youth, but was was serving full-time in youth, but was was serving full-time in youth, but was instead into the media world. And the instead into the media world. And the instead into the media world. And the reason why was because I reason why was because I reason why was because I was taking an honest evaluation of was taking an honest evaluation of was taking an honest evaluation of myself, and I just didn't see a future myself, and I just didn't see a future myself, and I just didn't see a future as the full-time youth pastor. I saw as the full-time youth pastor. I saw as the full-time youth pastor. I saw what my youth pastor like what his life what my youth pastor like what his life what my youth pastor like what his life was like. And I was like, "I don't think was like. And I was like, "I don't think was like. And I was like, "I don't think I have" and the term that I've now begun I have" and the term that I've now begun I have" and the term that I've now begun to use, but I didn't really have words to use, but I didn't really have words to use, but I didn't really have words for then, "I don't have the relational for then, "I don't have the relational for then, "I don't have the relational bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth to to be that person." And people asked, to to be that person." And people asked, to to be that person." And people asked, "Well, what do you mean by relational "Well, what do you mean by relational "Well, what do you mean by relational bandwidth?" And I described it as, bandwidth?" And I described it as, bandwidth?" And I described it as, "Look, pastoral ministry requires so "Look, pastoral ministry requires so "Look, pastoral ministry requires so much emotional and social energy.

much emotional and social energy. much emotional and social energy. And different people have different And different people have different And different people have different allotments of that kind of energy. And I allotments of that kind of energy. And I allotments of that kind of energy. And I don't think I have as much as maybe don't think I have as much as maybe don't think I have as much as maybe others. I have a ton of creative energy. others. I have a ton of creative energy. others. I have a ton of creative energy. I like to get in the lab and like tinker I like to get in the lab and like tinker I like to get in the lab and like tinker creatively and strategically. But when creatively and strategically. But when creatively and strategically. But when it comes to like the social and it comes to like the social and it comes to like the social and emotional energy side of things, I feel emotional energy side of things, I feel emotional energy side of things, I feel like I get depleted a lot faster. And so like I get depleted a lot faster. And so like I get depleted a lot faster. And so I'm looking at these kids and I'm like, I'm looking at these kids and I'm like, I'm looking at these kids and I'm like, they need and deserve so much like time they need and deserve so much like time they need and deserve so much like time and energy. and energy. and energy. I'm not going to be able to give that to I'm not going to be able to give that to I'm not going to be able to give that to them. And so when I start doing media, I them. And so when I start doing media, I them. And so when I start doing media, I feel like almost immediately, "Oh, feel like almost immediately, "Oh, feel like almost immediately, "Oh, I I'm in my lane now." And I I don't I I'm in my lane now." And I I don't I I'm in my lane now." And I I don't know how to describe this. It's like know how to describe this. It's like know how to describe this. It's like this electric feeling. When you're doing this electric feeling. When you're doing this electric feeling. When you're doing something something something that you're like you're you're fine at. that you're like you're you're fine at. that you're like you're you're fine at. And this is the the the the biggest trap And this is the the the the biggest trap And this is the the the the biggest trap about this is that you can do decades about this is that you can do decades about this is that you can do decades and decades of ministry, decades and and decades of ministry, decades and and decades of ministry, decades and decades of whatever profession or decades of whatever profession or decades of whatever profession or industry that you're in and it's fine. industry that you're in and it's fine. industry that you're in and it's fine. And you're getting by and you're not bad And you're getting by and you're not bad And you're getting by and you're not bad at it. But it also doesn't make you like at it. But it also doesn't make you like at it. But it also doesn't make you like come alive. And work becomes work come alive. And work becomes work come alive. And work becomes work eventually at all times, but eventually at all times, but eventually at all times, but there's something different when you're there's something different when you're there's something different when you're running in your lane. It is just so much running in your lane. It is just so much running in your lane. It is just so much more fulfilling just being who you were more fulfilling just being who you were more fulfilling just being who you were designed to be rather than trying to be designed to be rather than trying to be designed to be rather than trying to be someone that you're just not. I I try someone that you're just not. I I try someone that you're just not. I I try and put words to that very thing talking and put words to that very thing talking and put words to that very thing talking about my wife a lot cuz she's a midwife about my wife a lot cuz she's a midwife about my wife a lot cuz she's a midwife and you know her well and so you know and you know her well and so you know and you know her well and so you know this to be true that like she is a this to be true that like she is a this to be true that like she is a midwife, you know, like it's just who midwife, you know, like it's just who midwife, you know, like it's just who she is. And so I tried to describe that she is. And so I tried to describe that she is. And so I tried to describe that to people. Some people would use the to people. Some people would use the to people. Some people would use the phrase like calling or whatever.

phrase like calling or whatever. phrase like calling or whatever. Um Um Um that term can have some baggage for that term can have some baggage for that term can have some baggage for people. And so for me, the word that people. And so for me, the word that people. And so for me, the word that comes up often when I'm trying to comes up often when I'm trying to comes up often when I'm trying to describe it is grace. Like she's just describe it is grace. Like she's just describe it is grace. Like she's just like in the sweet spot when she's like in the sweet spot when she's like in the sweet spot when she's working as a midwife. And I think it was working as a midwife. And I think it was working as a midwife. And I think it was Frederick Buechner who put language to Frederick Buechner who put language to Frederick Buechner who put language to this for me. He said like, when you this for me. He said like, when you this for me. He said like, when you think of calling or like when you're think of calling or like when you're think of calling or like when you're trying to figure out what your calling trying to figure out what your calling trying to figure out what your calling is or like what your lane is or what is or like what your lane is or what is or like what your lane is or what your grace is, it's the intersection of your grace is, it's the intersection of your grace is, it's the intersection of your greatest joy and the world's your greatest joy and the world's your greatest joy and the world's greatest need. greatest need. greatest need. And that And that And that language has like has helped me so much language has like has helped me so much language has like has helped me so much in trying to navigate what it means to in trying to navigate what it means to in trying to navigate what it means to have a calling, what it means to find have a calling, what it means to find have a calling, what it means to find your lane, cuz I think everyone can your lane, cuz I think everyone can your lane, cuz I think everyone can resonate with that. Like, inside of us resonate with that. Like, inside of us resonate with that. Like, inside of us we have regardless what you do for your we have regardless what you do for your we have regardless what you do for your 9:00 to 5:00, too. Like, maybe you work 9:00 to 5:00, too. Like, maybe you work 9:00 to 5:00, too. Like, maybe you work at a corner store and like that doesn't at a corner store and like that doesn't at a corner store and like that doesn't inspire too much joy, but there is inspire too much joy, but there is inspire too much joy, but there is something like within you that something like within you that something like within you that fulfills your joy. fulfills your joy. fulfills your joy. And finding the intersection of that joy And finding the intersection of that joy And finding the intersection of that joy and the world's greatest need, whether and the world's greatest need, whether and the world's greatest need, whether it's what you do for work or not, like, it's what you do for work or not, like, it's what you do for work or not, like, oh man, that just like feels like the oh man, that just like feels like the oh man, that just like feels like the sweet spot, right? It feels like your sweet spot, right? It feels like your sweet spot, right? It feels like your lane. It feels like grace. lane. It feels like grace. lane. It feels like grace. Um Um Um As you're sharing your story, I I find As you're sharing your story, I I find As you're sharing your story, I I find it so funny to to think that like it so funny to to think that like it so funny to to think that like over the course of our lives, so many over the course of our lives, so many over the course of our lives, so many things that happen by chance.

things that happen by chance. things that happen by chance. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Um or by necessity, like you just needed Um or by necessity, like you just needed Um or by necessity, like you just needed a job, you know? a job, you know? a job, you know? When we look back in hindsight, you can When we look back in hindsight, you can When we look back in hindsight, you can realize that like God was really at realize that like God was really at realize that like God was really at work. You can call it God, but in when work. You can call it God, but in when work. You can call it God, but in when you're in the midst of it, it just feels you're in the midst of it, it just feels you're in the midst of it, it just feels like chance or it sometimes it feels like chance or it sometimes it feels like chance or it sometimes it feels like the worst thing. Right, like this like the worst thing. Right, like this like the worst thing. Right, like this is like desperation. This is like my is like desperation. This is like my is like desperation. This is like my fourth option if I had to choose. fourth option if I had to choose. fourth option if I had to choose. And so so cool that that's how you found And so so cool that that's how you found And so so cool that that's how you found your way into Like you said, 10 years your way into Like you said, 10 years your way into Like you said, 10 years ago you started a podcast to help your ago you started a podcast to help your ago you started a podcast to help your friends and this is Here we are. We're friends and this is Here we are. We're friends and this is Here we are. We're We're on that podcast right now. Yeah, We're on that podcast right now. Yeah, We're on that podcast right now. Yeah, 10 years later. Like our our our company 10 years later. Like our our our company 10 years later. Like our our our company is like 30 people now. Uh there's a is like 30 people now. Uh there's a is like 30 people now. Uh there's a Stateside location. There's the North Stateside location. There's the North Stateside location. There's the North Side location Canada. And then there's Side location Canada. And then there's Side location Canada. And then there's like another half of the team that's like another half of the team that's like another half of the team that's remote, you know? All around the remote, you know? All around the remote, you know? All around the continent, all around the world. continent, all around the world. continent, all around the world. And one of the things I'm most grateful And one of the things I'm most grateful And one of the things I'm most grateful for is like I found that lane early in for is like I found that lane early in for is like I found that lane early in life. And I think what's true for most life. And I think what's true for most life. And I think what's true for most people people people is that you don't find that early in is that you don't find that early in is that you don't find that early in life. life. life. One of the reasons I found it was call One of the reasons I found it was call One of the reasons I found it was call it God, call it luck.

it God, call it luck. it God, call it luck. Um Um Um The re- It's It's And it's not that I'm The re- It's It's And it's not that I'm The re- It's It's And it's not that I'm like discounting God working in things. like discounting God working in things. like discounting God working in things. I don't always love that language I don't always love that language I don't always love that language because then someone listening can be because then someone listening can be because then someone listening can be like, "Well, why would God help this like, "Well, why would God help this like, "Well, why would God help this person find their lane, but I'm like person find their lane, but I'm like person find their lane, but I'm like toiling away in this?" And so like I toiling away in this?" And so like I toiling away in this?" And so like I think sometimes it's just like the right think sometimes it's just like the right think sometimes it's just like the right relationship at the right time, you step relationship at the right time, you step relationship at the right time, you step through the right thing, it's coalescing through the right thing, it's coalescing through the right thing, it's coalescing of all these things. of all these things. of all these things. How you decide how God works, that leaf How you decide how God works, that leaf How you decide how God works, that leaf that fell at this time of day, that's that fell at this time of day, that's that fell at this time of day, that's the Lord. It's a butterfly effect of the Lord. It's a butterfly effect of the Lord. It's a butterfly effect of fell I don't know. fell I don't know. fell I don't know. It's for you to decide. It's for you to decide. It's for you to decide. But I think it's always worth chasing But I think it's always worth chasing But I think it's always worth chasing this. And so like I think the reason this. And so like I think the reason this. And so like I think the reason people responded so intensely to this people responded so intensely to this people responded so intensely to this post is because one, post is because one, post is because one, they heard someone put to they heard someone put to they heard someone put to put to language like it If I'm not a put to language like it If I'm not a put to language like it If I'm not a pastor, that doesn't mean what I'm doing pastor, that doesn't mean what I'm doing pastor, that doesn't mean what I'm doing is less valuable to the kingdom. Because is less valuable to the kingdom. Because is less valuable to the kingdom. Because what I said in that post and what I have what I said in that post and what I have what I said in that post and what I have always said is that I only wanted to always said is that I only wanted to always said is that I only wanted to work with churches. It's all I ever work with churches. It's all I ever work with churches. It's all I ever wanted to do. wanted to do. wanted to do. This company doesn't serve other This company doesn't serve other This company doesn't serve other industries. We just work with churches. industries. We just work with churches. industries. We just work with churches. And And And anytime I've been like, "Well, it anytime I've been like, "Well, it anytime I've been like, "Well, it actually would make strategic sense to actually would make strategic sense to actually would make strategic sense to like do this." And we haven't done this like do this." And we haven't done this like do this." And we haven't done this in a long time because I learned my in a long time because I learned my in a long time because I learned my lesson like I'm like, "Oh, let's help X lesson like I'm like, "Oh, let's help X lesson like I'm like, "Oh, let's help X ministry." One of the first video ministry." One of the first video ministry." One of the first video projects that I did was a mini doc for projects that I did was a mini doc for projects that I did was a mini doc for uh sex trafficking in the city that I uh sex trafficking in the city that I uh sex trafficking in the city that I was living in while I was serving as the was living in while I was serving as the was living in while I was serving as the media director Edmonton, Alberta, media director Edmonton, Alberta, media director Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Canada. Canada. And the city paid me like 10 Gs to do And the city paid me like 10 Gs to do And the city paid me like 10 Gs to do this. And it took like 5 months. So like this. And it took like 5 months. So like this. And it took like 5 months. So like it wasn't good money in the sense like it wasn't good money in the sense like it wasn't good money in the sense like this is my only job. It was like $2,000 this is my only job. It was like $2,000 this is my only job. It was like $2,000 a month. It was like, you know, roughly a month. It was like, you know, roughly a month. It was like, you know, roughly what I was getting paid at the church what I was getting paid at the church what I was getting paid at the church plus um plus um plus um you know, my odd jobs that I was doing. you know, my odd jobs that I was doing. you know, my odd jobs that I was doing. But like wouldn't that be a worthwhile But like wouldn't that be a worthwhile But like wouldn't that be a worthwhile cause? cause? cause? I I just didn't have the passion for it. I I just didn't have the passion for it. I I just didn't have the passion for it. So it's not that like church is somehow So it's not that like church is somehow So it's not that like church is somehow like more worthwhile than something like more worthwhile than something like more worthwhile than something else. Like wouldn't stopping sex else. Like wouldn't stopping sex else. Like wouldn't stopping sex trafficking, bringing awareness to that trafficking, bringing awareness to that trafficking, bringing awareness to that like be worthwhile? Absolutely. like be worthwhile? Absolutely. like be worthwhile? Absolutely. I forget what we were doing the B-roll I forget what we were doing the B-roll I forget what we were doing the B-roll for this. I had my wife put on like high for this. I had my wife put on like high for this. I had my wife put on like high boots. boots. boots. Oh, we were filming like B-roll. We Oh, we were filming like B-roll. We Oh, we were filming like B-roll. We couldn't shoot anything real. So, we had couldn't shoot anything real. So, we had couldn't shoot anything real. So, we had to like reenact things in silhouettes. to like reenact things in silhouettes. to like reenact things in silhouettes. So, like I had I had Bri like put on So, like I had I had Bri like put on So, like I had I had Bri like put on these high boots and then like we just these high boots and then like we just these high boots and then like we just shot like this car in all silhouette shot like this car in all silhouette shot like this car in all silhouette backlit and like her like leaning over backlit and like her like leaning over backlit and like her like leaning over into the front seat and just being like, into the front seat and just being like, into the front seat and just being like, "Hey, like "Hey, like "Hey, like let's have some fun today." Where I need let's have some fun today." Where I need let's have some fun today." Where I need to find this documentary? Does it exist to find this documentary? Does it exist to find this documentary? Does it exist on the internet? on the internet? on the internet? I think it probably does. For the for I think it probably does. For the for I think it probably does. For the for the sake of my own credibility, I don't the sake of my own credibility, I don't the sake of my own credibility, I don't want anyone to see this video, you know?

want anyone to see this video, you know? want anyone to see this video, you know? He got paid what? I was new. I was just He got paid what? I was new. I was just He got paid what? I was new. I was just The internet was new. We didn't Our The internet was new. We didn't Our The internet was new. We didn't Our cameras couldn't barely shoot anything. cameras couldn't barely shoot anything. cameras couldn't barely shoot anything. Like autofocus didn't exist. Like Like autofocus didn't exist. Like Like autofocus didn't exist. Like Anyway, um Anyway, um Anyway, um so, I think it's always worth chasing so, I think it's always worth chasing so, I think it's always worth chasing this. I think that people reason they this. I think that people reason they this. I think that people reason they respond like, "Hey, someone's providing respond like, "Hey, someone's providing respond like, "Hey, someone's providing like validity be like, yes, if you serve like validity be like, yes, if you serve like validity be like, yes, if you serve in media, that's not any lesser." And I in media, that's not any lesser." And I in media, that's not any lesser." And I think sometimes people can feel like think sometimes people can feel like think sometimes people can feel like it's lesser because I'm not on the it's lesser because I'm not on the it's lesser because I'm not on the stage. I'm not like being recognized in stage. I'm not like being recognized in stage. I'm not like being recognized in the same way that pastoral ministry is. the same way that pastoral ministry is. the same way that pastoral ministry is. I don't have executive leadership I don't have executive leadership I don't have executive leadership abilities. I can't even make decisions. abilities. I can't even make decisions. abilities. I can't even make decisions. I'm like, if someone else says I'm like, if someone else says I'm like, if someone else says something, I kind of have to just be something, I kind of have to just be something, I kind of have to just be beholden to them. So, they see me, they beholden to them. So, they see me, they beholden to them. So, they see me, they see us in a place of let's call it see us in a place of let's call it see us in a place of let's call it success and influence and they're like, success and influence and they're like, success and influence and they're like, "Yeah, like what I'm doing, it can "Yeah, like what I'm doing, it can "Yeah, like what I'm doing, it can matter in a way that matter in a way that matter in a way that is being recognized by let's say is being recognized by let's say is being recognized by let's say traditional markers of success." traditional markers of success." traditional markers of success." Yeah. And then the second thing was Yeah. And then the second thing was Yeah. And then the second thing was I I think people felt I I think people felt I I think people felt truly resonant with the idea that you're truly resonant with the idea that you're truly resonant with the idea that you're in you're doing something good, but like in you're doing something good, but like in you're doing something good, but like this doesn't feel right. this doesn't feel right. this doesn't feel right. Like we've all maybe had that Like we've all maybe had that Like we've all maybe had that experience. And I tried a bunch of experience. And I tried a bunch of experience. And I tried a bunch of things. Like I found it pretty early, things. Like I found it pretty early, things. Like I found it pretty early, you know, like 21 years old.

you know, like 21 years old. you know, like 21 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like I was like a DJ for a little. But like I was like a DJ for a little. But like I was like a DJ for a little. And I had like a really strong academic And I had like a really strong academic And I had like a really strong academic career where I was like thinking of career where I was like thinking of career where I was like thinking of pursuing that. pursuing that. pursuing that. Mhm. And uh Mhm. And uh Mhm. And uh you know, I was deep into athletics you know, I was deep into athletics you know, I was deep into athletics growing up. growing up. growing up. And then And then And then I wanted to be a youth pastor. I wanted to be a youth pastor. I wanted to be a youth pastor. Mhm. I made music. You know, got on the Mhm. I made music. You know, got on the Mhm. I made music. You know, got on the radio a little bit. Like I had tried my radio a little bit. Like I had tried my radio a little bit. Like I had tried my hands in a lot of different things. And hands in a lot of different things. And hands in a lot of different things. And when I did try something, I went all out when I did try something, I went all out when I did try something, I went all out because that's the only because that's the only because that's the only I only have two speeds, unfortunately. I only have two speeds, unfortunately. I only have two speeds, unfortunately. And so, maybe that's another reason And so, maybe that's another reason And so, maybe that's another reason put it into the variables of success put it into the variables of success put it into the variables of success luck got was like when I did try luck got was like when I did try luck got was like when I did try something, there was no like half something, there was no like half something, there was no like half measure. I went all out. And eventually measure. I went all out. And eventually measure. I went all out. And eventually you go all out in something and you're you go all out in something and you're you go all out in something and you're like, I have reached my limit and my like, I have reached my limit and my like, I have reached my limit and my limit here is not good enough. limit here is not good enough. limit here is not good enough. But then with this one, I was going all But then with this one, I was going all But then with this one, I was going all out and things like kept working. So, out and things like kept working. So, out and things like kept working. So, then you're like, okay, interesting. And then you're like, okay, interesting. And then you're like, okay, interesting. And then you're like, oh, it's cuz I'm in my then you're like, oh, it's cuz I'm in my then you're like, oh, it's cuz I'm in my lane right now. And and that feels lane right now. And and that feels lane right now. And and that feels special. So, for everyone listening special. So, for everyone listening special. So, for everyone listening it's always worth chasing that. Of it's always worth chasing that. Of it's always worth chasing that. Of course you have to weigh the practical course you have to weigh the practical course you have to weigh the practical considerations in your own life. I was considerations in your own life. I was considerations in your own life. I was 21, newly married 21, newly married 21, newly married and we started a business. You could and we started a business. You could and we started a business. You could look at that and say, here's an idea, look at that and say, here's an idea, look at that and say, here's an idea, don't start a business the year you get don't start a business the year you get don't start a business the year you get married and make your wife work two married and make your wife work two married and make your wife work two jobs. Also, you're still in school, jobs. Also, you're still in school, jobs. Also, you're still in school, finish your degree.

finish your degree. finish your degree. You could also look at that and say, we You could also look at that and say, we You could also look at that and say, we didn't have any kids yet. didn't have any kids yet. didn't have any kids yet. Like we had no money. We didn't have to Like we had no money. We didn't have to Like we had no money. We didn't have to protect anything. If you're ever ever protect anything. If you're ever ever protect anything. If you're ever ever going to go for it, it's when you're going to go for it, it's when you're going to go for it, it's when you're young, go for it. So, there's always young, go for it. So, there's always young, go for it. So, there's always like, you know, if you have three kids, like, you know, if you have three kids, like, you know, if you have three kids, a lot of times people are just like, I a lot of times people are just like, I a lot of times people are just like, I just got to do what I got to do for the just got to do what I got to do for the just got to do what I got to do for the sake of my family and and I respect that sake of my family and and I respect that sake of my family and and I respect that immensely. And so immensely. And so immensely. And so you know you know you know yes, it's worth chasing, but also we yes, it's worth chasing, but also we yes, it's worth chasing, but also we have responsibilities, but also go for have responsibilities, but also go for have responsibilities, but also go for it, but also don't be reckless. And it, but also don't be reckless. And it, but also don't be reckless. And that's what makes all of this so that's what makes all of this so that's what makes all of this so nuanced. nuanced. nuanced. The next question is related to working The next question is related to working The next question is related to working at church, but it's unique in the way at church, but it's unique in the way at church, but it's unique in the way that this is actually a question that that this is actually a question that that this is actually a question that you asked on Instagram. Through your you asked on Instagram. Through your you asked on Instagram. Through your Instagram stories, you pulled your Instagram stories, you pulled your Instagram stories, you pulled your audience and you asked, if you work at audience and you asked, if you work at audience and you asked, if you work at church full-time, what is your day off church full-time, what is your day off church full-time, what is your day off each week? each week? each week? Yes, so after my threads post kind of Yes, so after my threads post kind of Yes, so after my threads post kind of bombed relative to what I would have bombed relative to what I would have bombed relative to what I would have expected, I was like, okay, I published expected, I was like, okay, I published expected, I was like, okay, I published this on Monday. Maybe everyone's on this on Monday. Maybe everyone's on this on Monday. Maybe everyone's on their day off. And I was like, you know their day off. And I was like, you know their day off. And I was like, you know what? I don't think it really matters, what? I don't think it really matters, what? I don't think it really matters, but I'm curious. Assuming people have but I'm curious. Assuming people have but I'm curious. Assuming people have Saturdays off Saturdays off Saturdays off what day do do choose? Do you choose the what day do do choose? Do you choose the what day do do choose? Do you choose the Friday? So, you get kind of that two-day Friday? So, you get kind of that two-day Friday? So, you get kind of that two-day weekend?

weekend? weekend? Yeah. Or do you choose the Monday? Those Yeah. Or do you choose the Monday? Those Yeah. Or do you choose the Monday? Those are kind of the most popular options, at are kind of the most popular options, at are kind of the most popular options, at least in my experience, amongst church. least in my experience, amongst church. least in my experience, amongst church. So, I asked this, we had several So, I asked this, we had several So, I asked this, we had several thousand responses. thousand responses. thousand responses. Three options that you could choose in Three options that you could choose in Three options that you could choose in this poll. this poll. this poll. What is your day off if you are a What is your day off if you are a What is your day off if you are a full-time staff member at a church? That full-time staff member at a church? That full-time staff member at a church? That was kind of the setup. Number one, was kind of the setup. Number one, was kind of the setup. Number one, Monday. Number two, Friday. Number Monday. Number two, Friday. Number Monday. Number two, Friday. Number three, other. Other got 509 votes. three, other. Other got 509 votes. three, other. Other got 509 votes. Monday got 936 votes. And Friday got Monday got 936 votes. And Friday got Monday got 936 votes. And Friday got 1,738 1,738 1,738 votes. So, obviously, Friday, the most votes. So, obviously, Friday, the most votes. So, obviously, Friday, the most popular day off. It makes the most popular day off. It makes the most popular day off. It makes the most sense, because then you get the kind of sense, because then you get the kind of sense, because then you get the kind of traditional two-day weekend that folks traditional two-day weekend that folks traditional two-day weekend that folks that work more traditional 9:00 to 5:00 that work more traditional 9:00 to 5:00 that work more traditional 9:00 to 5:00 Monday to Friday jobs also get. Monday to Friday jobs also get. Monday to Friday jobs also get. What really stood out to me, though, in What really stood out to me, though, in What really stood out to me, though, in this poll was not the responses to the this poll was not the responses to the this poll was not the responses to the poll itself, but the dozens and dozens poll itself, but the dozens and dozens poll itself, but the dozens and dozens of DMs that came in from people being of DMs that came in from people being of DMs that came in from people being like, like, like, "What do you mean day off?" "What do you mean day off?" "What do you mean day off?" Right. Right. Right. Or people saying, "Yeah, like I Or people saying, "Yeah, like I Or people saying, "Yeah, like I technically have that day off, technically have that day off, technically have that day off, but I always have to have my phone on but I always have to have my phone on but I always have to have my phone on and be in constant contact with those and be in constant contact with those and be in constant contact with those that are above me and those that are that are above me and those that are that are above me and those that are below me if I manage a team."

below me if I manage a team." below me if I manage a team." Uh people that said, Uh people that said, Uh people that said, "I'm the pastor. I try to give my staff "I'm the pastor. I try to give my staff "I'm the pastor. I try to give my staff a day off, but they often have to work a day off, but they often have to work a day off, but they often have to work on their days off because they don't on their days off because they don't on their days off because they don't manage their time well enough." manage their time well enough." manage their time well enough." And then the all too common, at least in And then the all too common, at least in And then the all too common, at least in my faith tradition growing up, the 40 my faith tradition growing up, the 40 my faith tradition growing up, the 40 plus 10 model, which is you work on plus 10 model, which is you work on plus 10 model, which is you work on church full staff. church full staff. church full staff. You have a 40-hour work week. We also You have a 40-hour work week. We also You have a 40-hour work week. We also expect you to volunteer 10 hours on top expect you to volunteer 10 hours on top expect you to volunteer 10 hours on top of that of that of that because we have that same expectation because we have that same expectation because we have that same expectation for our congregation. They have for our congregation. They have for our congregation. They have full-time jobs, and we expect them or full-time jobs, and we expect them or full-time jobs, and we expect them or request of them to volunteer at church. request of them to volunteer at church. request of them to volunteer at church. So, how could we request that of them, So, how could we request that of them, So, how could we request that of them, but then not request that of our own but then not request that of our own but then not request that of our own staff? staff? staff? We're requiring more from the We're requiring more from the We're requiring more from the congregation than the people that congregation than the people that congregation than the people that actually work at the church. actually work at the church. actually work at the church. So, So, So, I wanted to ask you Oh, jeez. What what should this look like? What what should this look like? Yeah. Cuz people were almost equally as Yeah. Cuz people were almost equally as Yeah. Cuz people were almost equally as passionate about this as the other post. passionate about this as the other post. passionate about this as the other post. And I think that's what you said, they And I think that's what you said, they And I think that's what you said, they are related. I was surprised by how many are related. I was surprised by how many are related. I was surprised by how many people were like, "No, this is we need people were like, "No, this is we need people were like, "No, this is we need to talk about this." to talk about this." to talk about this." Yeah. And you and I had a brief Yeah. And you and I had a brief Yeah. And you and I had a brief conversation, a brief exchange about conversation, a brief exchange about conversation, a brief exchange about this. I actually responded to on this. I actually responded to on this. I actually responded to on Instagram to your story.

Instagram to your story. Instagram to your story. Because you posted and you're like, "I'm Because you posted and you're like, "I'm Because you posted and you're like, "I'm shook by how many people are saying like shook by how many people are saying like shook by how many people are saying like I that I don't take a day off." I that I don't take a day off." I that I don't take a day off." And it got me thinking about like And it got me thinking about like And it got me thinking about like sabbatical culture in church. sabbatical culture in church. sabbatical culture in church. And church is not um the only industry And church is not um the only industry And church is not um the only industry or the only area where sabbaticals are or the only area where sabbaticals are or the only area where sabbaticals are are common. In like the 1880s is where are common. In like the 1880s is where are common. In like the 1880s is where sabbaticals became adopted into like sabbaticals became adopted into like sabbaticals became adopted into like academia for like teachers. Mhm. And academia for like teachers. Mhm. And academia for like teachers. Mhm. And every 7 years they would get, you know, every 7 years they would get, you know, every 7 years they would get, you know, a year or so off. And it wasn't just for a year or so off. And it wasn't just for a year or so off. And it wasn't just for rest, it was for like actually rest, it was for like actually rest, it was for like actually furthering your interest or education in furthering your interest or education in furthering your interest or education in other areas. Because if you're a other areas. Because if you're a other areas. Because if you're a teacher, maybe you teach the same course teacher, maybe you teach the same course teacher, maybe you teach the same course every semester for 7 years. Like you every semester for 7 years. Like you every semester for 7 years. Like you just get stale. And so it's like, "Okay, just get stale. And so it's like, "Okay, just get stale. And so it's like, "Okay, go and get inspired. Like go to Paris, go and get inspired. Like go to Paris, go and get inspired. Like go to Paris, learn about art or something." I don't learn about art or something." I don't learn about art or something." I don't know. know. know. And until Tom Cruise comes out of a uh And until Tom Cruise comes out of a uh And until Tom Cruise comes out of a uh plane and oh no. plane and oh no. plane and oh no. Yeah. Yeah, you can learn about that, Yeah. Yeah, you can learn about that, Yeah. Yeah, you can learn about that, too. Um too. Um too. Um but I mean, there are so but I mean, there are so but I mean, there are so sorry. That's what I I watched Mission sorry. That's what I I watched Mission sorry. That's what I I watched Mission Impossible last night. It was in Paris. Impossible last night. It was in Paris. Impossible last night. It was in Paris. Sorry. There are so there are so many of Sorry. There are so there are so many of Sorry. There are so there are so many of those movies. He was probably making those movies. He was probably making those movies. He was probably making them in the 1880s. them in the 1880s. them in the 1880s. But the the idea of a sabbatical like But the the idea of a sabbatical like But the the idea of a sabbatical like comes from this like ancient Hebrew comes from this like ancient Hebrew comes from this like ancient Hebrew practice of letting the soil rest every practice of letting the soil rest every practice of letting the soil rest every 7 years. So on the seventh year you like 7 years. So on the seventh year you like 7 years. So on the seventh year you like in an agricultural world you would you in an agricultural world you would you in an agricultural world you would you would not plant would not plant would not plant wheat. You would let the soil rest to wheat. You would let the soil rest to wheat. You would let the soil rest to recoup its nutrients to then recoup its nutrients to then recoup its nutrients to then um prepare for harvest for the next 6 um prepare for harvest for the next 6 um prepare for harvest for the next 6 years. Is that still a thing they do?

years. Is that still a thing they do? years. Is that still a thing they do? Um not as much anymore. And there's a Um not as much anymore. And there's a Um not as much anymore. And there's a whole conversation about that about whole conversation about that about whole conversation about that about Capitalism would not allow for that, Capitalism would not allow for that, Capitalism would not allow for that, right? Like right? Like right? Like thing. There's a whole conversation thing. There's a whole conversation thing. There's a whole conversation about like our soil is depleted of about like our soil is depleted of about like our soil is depleted of nutrients because we just like we we nutrients because we just like we we nutrients because we just like we we pillage it, basically. Um and so even in pillage it, basically. Um and so even in pillage it, basically. Um and so even in our our at home we're practicing like our our at home we're practicing like our our at home we're practicing like resting and um crop rotating. Anyways, resting and um crop rotating. Anyways, resting and um crop rotating. Anyways, that's that's for another podcast. that's that's for another podcast. that's that's for another podcast. That's for my That's for my podcast. That's for my That's for my podcast. That's for my That's for my podcast. The crop rotating Christian. Yeah, but The crop rotating Christian. Yeah, but The crop rotating Christian. Yeah, but the reason I bring up sabbatical is the reason I bring up sabbatical is the reason I bring up sabbatical is because I responded to you and I'm like, because I responded to you and I'm like, because I responded to you and I'm like, "Okay, I think this is a symptom of like "Okay, I think this is a symptom of like "Okay, I think this is a symptom of like why sabbaticals are like built into why sabbaticals are like built into why sabbaticals are like built into church culture." It's because we we church culture." It's because we we church culture." It's because we we don't honor rest in a way that like sets don't honor rest in a way that like sets don't honor rest in a way that like sets us up for for success. Like either we us up for for success. Like either we us up for for success. Like either we burn out and then take a sabbatical out burn out and then take a sabbatical out burn out and then take a sabbatical out of necessity, whether it's whether of necessity, whether it's whether of necessity, whether it's whether you're a pastor, youth pastor, or or you're a pastor, youth pastor, or or you're a pastor, youth pastor, or or really any staff at church. Sometimes really any staff at church. Sometimes really any staff at church. Sometimes staff at church who aren't pastors don't staff at church who aren't pastors don't staff at church who aren't pastors don't get afforded the opportunity to take a get afforded the opportunity to take a get afforded the opportunity to take a sabbatical. And so they end up burnt out sabbatical. And so they end up burnt out sabbatical. And so they end up burnt out and they either become, you know, uh and they either become, you know, uh and they either become, you know, uh um like disenfranchised by the church um like disenfranchised by the church um like disenfranchised by the church because they're overworked. Oh, you're a because they're overworked. Oh, you're a because they're overworked. Oh, you're a children's director, not a pastor. So children's director, not a pastor. So children's director, not a pastor. So you don't qualify.

you don't qualify. you don't qualify. And it's funny that we're having this And it's funny that we're having this And it's funny that we're having this conversation because um conversation because um conversation because um I follow my therapist on Twitter. I follow my therapist on Twitter. I follow my therapist on Twitter. So it's okay. Okay. He was having this So it's okay. Okay. He was having this So it's okay. Okay. He was having this conversation earlier in the week talking conversation earlier in the week talking conversation earlier in the week talking about um sabbaticals. about um sabbaticals. about um sabbaticals. And I think there is this culture in And I think there is this culture in And I think there is this culture in church and we've church and we've church and we've anecdotally by hearing all these folks' anecdotally by hearing all these folks' anecdotally by hearing all these folks' stories, it seems to be true. And we stories, it seems to be true. And we stories, it seems to be true. And we work with thousands of churches and know work with thousands of churches and know work with thousands of churches and know this to be true where it's like maybe this to be true where it's like maybe this to be true where it's like maybe we're just like a little overworked and we're just like a little overworked and we're just like a little overworked and not honoring rest the way that we not honoring rest the way that we not honoring rest the way that we should. Not just aside from it being a should. Not just aside from it being a should. Not just aside from it being a command from the Lord to take weekly command from the Lord to take weekly command from the Lord to take weekly rhythms of rest, but like just generally rhythms of rest, but like just generally rhythms of rest, but like just generally like like like I work a 9-5. I get a I get a two-day I work a 9-5. I get a I get a two-day I work a 9-5. I get a I get a two-day weekend and like weekend and like weekend and like maybe that's an essential rhythm for our maybe that's an essential rhythm for our maybe that's an essential rhythm for our health. And so like for me to sit here health. And so like for me to sit here health. And so like for me to sit here and like prescribe what and like prescribe what and like prescribe what everyone in church should do would be a everyone in church should do would be a everyone in church should do would be a challenging thing. But I have been challenging thing. But I have been challenging thing. But I have been reading um a lot of Eugene Peterson over reading um a lot of Eugene Peterson over reading um a lot of Eugene Peterson over the last year. And he talks a lot about the last year. And he talks a lot about the last year. And he talks a lot about Sabbath. And he said something uh really Sabbath. And he said something uh really Sabbath. And he said something uh really profound that I don't think I'll ever profound that I don't think I'll ever profound that I don't think I'll ever forget. He took Sabbath very seriously. forget. He took Sabbath very seriously. forget. He took Sabbath very seriously. Every Monday, he did nothing. Him and Every Monday, he did nothing. Him and Every Monday, he did nothing. Him and his wife Jan would pack up their his wife Jan would pack up their his wife Jan would pack up their lunches. They would go on a hike. They lunches. They would go on a hike. They lunches. They would go on a hike. They would not talk for the entire morning.

would not talk for the entire morning. would not talk for the entire morning. So while they were hiking, while they So while they were hiking, while they So while they were hiking, while they were walking, complete silence. They were walking, complete silence. They were walking, complete silence. They would break their silence after they would break their silence after they would break their silence after they prepared their lunch wherever they prepared their lunch wherever they prepared their lunch wherever they settled on their hike. They would say a settled on their hike. They would say a settled on their hike. They would say a blessing, and then they would talk for blessing, and then they would talk for blessing, and then they would talk for the rest of the afternoon. They'd come the rest of the afternoon. They'd come the rest of the afternoon. They'd come home, they'd garden, they'd pray, they'd home, they'd garden, they'd pray, they'd home, they'd garden, they'd pray, they'd play. He said Sabbath is for two things, play. He said Sabbath is for two things, play. He said Sabbath is for two things, praying and playing. praying and playing. praying and playing. And uh Mhm. Uh gardening? And uh Mhm. Uh gardening? And uh Mhm. Uh gardening? That he would call that That he would call that That he would call that Tilling the land? Tilling the land? Tilling the land? that probably as praying. Um Uh that probably as praying. Um Uh that probably as praying. Um Uh interesting. I define uh I define interesting. I define uh I define interesting. I define uh I define anything I want then. anything I want then. anything I want then. That's right. Yes. But he he to to That's right. Yes. But he he to to That's right. Yes. But he he to to achieve this, he had to sit down with achieve this, he had to sit down with achieve this, he had to sit down with his church his church his church um leadership and his church members and um leadership and his church members and um leadership and his church members and say, "Look, on Sundays, our congregation say, "Look, on Sundays, our congregation say, "Look, on Sundays, our congregation comes to church to receive rest. We comes to church to receive rest. We comes to church to receive rest. We facilitate rest for them. This is their facilitate rest for them. This is their facilitate rest for them. This is their Sabbath. He said, "I need the same thing Sabbath. He said, "I need the same thing Sabbath. He said, "I need the same thing from you. On Mondays, I need rest where from you. On Mondays, I need rest where from you. On Mondays, I need rest where I my only responsibilities are praying I my only responsibilities are praying I my only responsibilities are praying and playing. I don't want to talk about and playing. I don't want to talk about and playing. I don't want to talk about church. I don't want to be reachable by church. I don't want to be reachable by church. I don't want to be reachable by church. And so if we're facilitating church. And so if we're facilitating church. And so if we're facilitating this for our congregations, I need you this for our congregations, I need you this for our congregations, I need you all to facilitate this for me, too." And all to facilitate this for me, too." And all to facilitate this for me, too." And that spoken agreement like was really that spoken agreement like was really that spoken agreement like was really profound for me because we don't talk profound for me because we don't talk profound for me because we don't talk about this stuff often. In church, one about this stuff often. In church, one about this stuff often. In church, one of the reasons we do end up working six of the reasons we do end up working six of the reasons we do end up working six days a week or seven days a week or days a week or seven days a week or days a week or seven days a week or outside of our 40 hours is because every outside of our 40 hours is because every outside of our 40 hours is because every week we have this recurring like service week we have this recurring like service week we have this recurring like service that we have to we have to pull off for that we have to we have to pull off for that we have to we have to pull off for the people who come to church. It's a the people who come to church. It's a the people who come to church. It's a you can't get away from it. Similar to you can't get away from it. Similar to you can't get away from it. Similar to this podcast, right? Like our workflow this podcast, right? Like our workflow this podcast, right? Like our workflow has changed a bit now because we're has changed a bit now because we're has changed a bit now because we're filming the podcast. And so every filming the podcast. And so every filming the podcast. And so every Wednesday, like I have I have five work

Wednesday, like I have I have five work Wednesday, like I have I have five work days to get this thing like chopped up, days to get this thing like chopped up, days to get this thing like chopped up, edited, and ready to go. And so my work edited, and ready to go. And so my work edited, and ready to go. And so my work rhythm has changed a little bit because rhythm has changed a little bit because rhythm has changed a little bit because of the nature of the weekly deadline. of the nature of the weekly deadline. of the nature of the weekly deadline. That's the nature of our work in church. That's the nature of our work in church. That's the nature of our work in church. Every week, the service recurs. It Every week, the service recurs. It Every week, the service recurs. It recurs. It recurs. recurs. It recurs. recurs. It recurs. And And And so we end up working outside the bounds so we end up working outside the bounds so we end up working outside the bounds of our salaried hours or what have you of our salaried hours or what have you of our salaried hours or what have you because sometimes there's work to get because sometimes there's work to get because sometimes there's work to get done. But Eugene said to his staff, he's done. But Eugene said to his staff, he's done. But Eugene said to his staff, he's like, "Okay, we do this every Sunday for like, "Okay, we do this every Sunday for like, "Okay, we do this every Sunday for our people. I need our people. I need our people. I need you to do this for me on Mondays so that you to do this for me on Mondays so that you to do this for me on Mondays so that I don't have to disappear for a year I don't have to disappear for a year I don't have to disappear for a year every 7 years because I'm burnt out. I every 7 years because I'm burnt out. I every 7 years because I'm burnt out. I need this weekly rhythm of rest. And he need this weekly rhythm of rest. And he need this weekly rhythm of rest. And he says, says, says, I keep use it keep using the word rest. I keep use it keep using the word rest. I keep use it keep using the word rest. Um he says that simply a day off, Eugene Um he says that simply a day off, Eugene Um he says that simply a day off, Eugene Peterson says this, a day off is a Peterson says this, a day off is a Peterson says this, a day off is a bastard Sabbath. That's what he says. bastard Sabbath. That's what he says. bastard Sabbath. That's what he says. He's like Sabbath rest is not just about He's like Sabbath rest is not just about He's like Sabbath rest is not just about like not being a church, like not being a church, like not being a church, but it's like not being connected to but it's like not being connected to but it's like not being connected to church on your phone. It's like not church on your phone. It's like not church on your phone. It's like not being reachable, which may be a culture being reachable, which may be a culture being reachable, which may be a culture shift for some of us. And um I offend shift for some of us. And um I offend shift for some of us. And um I offend some not that I have any of this figured some not that I have any of this figured some not that I have any of this figured out, but um I offend people sometimes out, but um I offend people sometimes out, but um I offend people sometimes with how unreachable I can be at times.

with how unreachable I can be at times. with how unreachable I can be at times. And it's true. I I have been offended by And it's true. I I have been offended by And it's true. I I have been offended by that. about that later in the podcast that. about that later in the podcast that. about that later in the podcast probably actually. Um but it just like probably actually. Um but it just like probably actually. Um but it just like for me to stay healthy, that's that's for me to stay healthy, that's that's for me to stay healthy, that's that's what I've got to do. Um and so those what I've got to do. Um and so those what I've got to do. Um and so those those are my thoughts right now uh those are my thoughts right now uh those are my thoughts right now uh informed a lot by Eugene Peterson who, informed a lot by Eugene Peterson who, informed a lot by Eugene Peterson who, and the reason I bring him up is because and the reason I bring him up is because and the reason I bring him up is because he lived a long life as a really he lived a long life as a really he lived a long life as a really healthy, centered, balanced pastor. I healthy, centered, balanced pastor. I healthy, centered, balanced pastor. I think he did it really well. I think he think he did it really well. I think he think he did it really well. I think he worked in church really well and modeled worked in church really well and modeled worked in church really well and modeled health. health. health. And he has a lot to say about Sabbath, a And he has a lot to say about Sabbath, a And he has a lot to say about Sabbath, a lot about weekly rest, and I think lot about weekly rest, and I think lot about weekly rest, and I think that's a really big part of how he was that's a really big part of how he was that's a really big part of how he was able to do that over the course of a able to do that over the course of a able to do that over the course of a lifetime. lifetime. lifetime. I want to make sure that I stand in as I want to make sure that I stand in as I want to make sure that I stand in as the advocate for everyone that's the advocate for everyone that's the advocate for everyone that's listening to this right now and going listening to this right now and going listening to this right now and going must be nice. must be nice. must be nice. Because one of the common threads in the Because one of the common threads in the Because one of the common threads in the DMs that I got were yeah, like we're in DMs that I got were yeah, like we're in DMs that I got were yeah, like we're in a small church. We're barely getting by. a small church. We're barely getting by. a small church. We're barely getting by. Yeah. Like Yeah. Like Yeah. Like I I we don't really have the capacity to I I we don't really have the capacity to I I we don't really have the capacity to not do that because otherwise like this not do that because otherwise like this not do that because otherwise like this thing won't get done. And this thing thing won't get done. And this thing thing won't get done. And this thing feels important.

feels important. feels important. So I I I'm a one-person So I I I'm a one-person So I I I'm a one-person pastor at church. I do everything. And I pastor at church. I do everything. And I pastor at church. I do everything. And I listened to this podcast. And like I listened to this podcast. And like I listened to this podcast. And like I want to be on social. And I can't like want to be on social. And I can't like want to be on social. And I can't like pay Social Sermons to do it for me. I pay Social Sermons to do it for me. I pay Social Sermons to do it for me. I can't partner with you guys. I have to can't partner with you guys. I have to can't partner with you guys. I have to do it myself. So, I take your advice and do it myself. So, I take your advice and do it myself. So, I take your advice and I do it. Well, I do it. Well, I do it. Well, either I just decide that's not either I just decide that's not either I just decide that's not important for my church or important for my church or important for my church or I take this day off. Like I I can't I I take this day off. Like I I can't I I take this day off. Like I I can't I can't do both. I can't still pursue can't do both. I can't still pursue can't do both. I can't still pursue social and do all the digital things social and do all the digital things social and do all the digital things that I think my church needs. But then, that I think my church needs. But then, that I think my church needs. But then, am I not like writing my own death am I not like writing my own death am I not like writing my own death sentence for the church because like sentence for the church because like sentence for the church because like we're shrinking, we need to reach we're shrinking, we need to reach we're shrinking, we need to reach people, and we need to expand, and we people, and we need to expand, and we people, and we need to expand, and we believe digital is a way to do that. believe digital is a way to do that. believe digital is a way to do that. And so, And so, And so, I don't want it to sound cut and dry I don't want it to sound cut and dry I don't want it to sound cut and dry that that that And we talk about this frequently in the And we talk about this frequently in the And we talk about this frequently in the context of church, in the context of context of church, in the context of context of church, in the context of business, in the context of culture. It business, in the context of culture. It business, in the context of culture. It is not realistic to go up into the right is not realistic to go up into the right is not realistic to go up into the right indefinitely. indefinitely. indefinitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And And one of the worst symptoms of this is one of the worst symptoms of this is one of the worst symptoms of this is a company like Meta. We talked about a company like Meta. We talked about a company like Meta. We talked about Threads last week. Meta had a down Threads last week. Meta had a down Threads last week. Meta had a down quarter. quarter. quarter. They are a publicly traded company. When They are a publicly traded company. When They are a publicly traded company. When they had a down quarter, the they had a down quarter, the they had a down quarter, the shareholders shareholders shareholders were alarmed. The stock price dropped.

were alarmed. The stock price dropped. were alarmed. The stock price dropped. The CEO, The CEO, The CEO, Mr. Zuckerberg, is like, "Well, we have Mr. Zuckerberg, is like, "Well, we have Mr. Zuckerberg, is like, "Well, we have to do whatever it takes to start going to do whatever it takes to start going to do whatever it takes to start going back up into the right." back up into the right." back up into the right." I reject that ideology I reject that ideology I reject that ideology in its entirety. in its entirety. in its entirety. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. We cannot have this belief that up into We cannot have this belief that up into We cannot have this belief that up into the right indefinitely is what's the right indefinitely is what's the right indefinitely is what's realistic, is what's healthy, is what is realistic, is what's healthy, is what is realistic, is what's healthy, is what is worth pursuing. worth pursuing. worth pursuing. It can't be It just cannot be a thing. It can't be It just cannot be a thing. It can't be It just cannot be a thing. It is going to destroy pastors. It will It is going to destroy pastors. It will It is going to destroy pastors. It will destroy marriages. It will destroy your destroy marriages. It will destroy your destroy marriages. It will destroy your personal, emotional, and spiritual personal, emotional, and spiritual personal, emotional, and spiritual health. And it must be sacrificed on health. And it must be sacrificed on health. And it must be sacrificed on this altar of the culture that we live this altar of the culture that we live this altar of the culture that we live in. Like it it just Do you sacrifice in. Like it it just Do you sacrifice in. Like it it just Do you sacrifice something on the altar of the culture we something on the altar of the culture we something on the altar of the culture we live in or are we sacrificing it on the live in or are we sacrificing it on the live in or are we sacrificing it on the altar of Is it God's altar? What altar? altar of Is it God's altar? What altar? altar of Is it God's altar? What altar? I think I'm going to altar. I think I'm going to altar. I think I'm going to altar. I may have messed up that. I may have messed up that. I may have messed up that. The point stands. The point stands. The point stands. remains. Yeah. remains. Yeah. remains. Yeah. But I want to give those people a voice. But I want to give those people a voice. But I want to give those people a voice. I heard something really unsavory this I heard something really unsavory this I heard something really unsavory this week. There is a person that week. There is a person that week. There is a person that lives on our street. lives on our street. lives on our street. And they have two young kids.

And they have two young kids. And they have two young kids. And you know, we chat. They have a And you know, we chat. They have a And you know, we chat. They have a nanny. And we found out from them, they nanny. And we found out from them, they nanny. And we found out from them, they said this openly to us, said this openly to us, said this openly to us, the nanny works 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. the nanny works 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. the nanny works 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. every day, six days a week. And they every day, six days a week. And they every day, six days a week. And they don't work on Sundays. don't work on Sundays. don't work on Sundays. And And And this family lamented that they don't this family lamented that they don't this family lamented that they don't work on Sundays because they would like work on Sundays because they would like work on Sundays because they would like them to work every day. And they said them to work every day. And they said them to work every day. And they said something to to the tune of something to to the tune of something to to the tune of uh they say that they go to church, but uh they say that they go to church, but uh they say that they go to church, but I don't know if I believe them. I don't know if I believe them. I don't know if I believe them. And it doesn't really matter what And it doesn't really matter what And it doesn't really matter what they're doing on their day off. But my they're doing on their day off. But my they're doing on their day off. But my wife, she's like, "How would you work wife, she's like, "How would you work wife, she's like, "How would you work 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. every day?" And I 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. every day?" And I 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. every day?" And I was like, "I'm pretty sure most of the was like, "I'm pretty sure most of the was like, "I'm pretty sure most of the world does that." world does that." world does that." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, And she's like, And she's like, "Oh." "Oh." "Oh." "Right." "Right." "Right." Mhm. And this is a lady of Hispanic uh Mhm. And this is a lady of Hispanic uh Mhm. And this is a lady of Hispanic uh ethnicity, which is unusual in our very ethnicity, which is unusual in our very ethnicity, which is unusual in our very white, you know, corner of Canada. white, you know, corner of Canada. white, you know, corner of Canada. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And And And it just made me think like, how do we it just made me think like, how do we it just made me think like, how do we balance this thing that is necessary balance this thing that is necessary balance this thing that is necessary with, kind of alluding to the previous with, kind of alluding to the previous with, kind of alluding to the previous question, like the needs of our own question, like the needs of our own question, like the needs of our own family? And and we live in a culture, if family? And and we live in a culture, if family? And and we live in a culture, if we're talking like hierarchy of needs, we're talking like hierarchy of needs, we're talking like hierarchy of needs, where we have like the privilege up top where we have like the privilege up top where we have like the privilege up top to be like, "Ah, I'm going to like to be like, "Ah, I'm going to like to be like, "Ah, I'm going to like figure out my recreation. I'm going to figure out my recreation. I'm going to figure out my recreation. I'm going to figure out like my emotional health."

figure out like my emotional health." figure out like my emotional health." And like I mean, pre- forget about like And like I mean, pre- forget about like And like I mean, pre- forget about like other parts of the world, just like other parts of the world, just like other parts of the world, just like previous generations on this continent previous generations on this continent previous generations on this continent did not have the luxury of even did not have the luxury of even did not have the luxury of even considering those things. considering those things. considering those things. And and and yet the ancient traditions, And and and yet the ancient traditions, And and and yet the ancient traditions, the ancient faith that we the ancient faith that we the ancient faith that we uh follow had it baked in as such an uh follow had it baked in as such an uh follow had it baked in as such an important thing because important thing because important thing because I suppose even then, when it seemed I suppose even then, when it seemed I suppose even then, when it seemed maybe unrealistic and perhaps in every maybe unrealistic and perhaps in every maybe unrealistic and perhaps in every culture it seems a bit unrealistic, and culture it seems a bit unrealistic, and culture it seems a bit unrealistic, and maybe that's the point. It's a this maybe that's the point. It's a this maybe that's the point. It's a this prophetic speaking to what the culture prophetic speaking to what the culture prophetic speaking to what the culture demands and saying, "No, the upside-down demands and saying, "No, the upside-down demands and saying, "No, the upside-down kingdom is exactly what you wouldn't kingdom is exactly what you wouldn't kingdom is exactly what you wouldn't think is necessary." think is necessary." think is necessary." Yeah. You're going non-stop. Yeah. You're going non-stop. Yeah. You're going non-stop. You don't go faster. You don't go faster. You don't go faster. Yeah. You force yourself to stop. Yeah. You force yourself to stop. Yeah. You force yourself to stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I think I figured it out. Took me Okay, I think I figured it out. Took me Okay, I think I figured it out. Took me a long while. You were just nodding and a long while. You were just nodding and a long while. You were just nodding and going, "He's going to figure it out." going, "He's going to figure it out." going, "He's going to figure it out." no, I totally agree with you. no, I totally agree with you. no, I totally agree with you. Pastor Alex, he's like, I could tell Pastor Alex, he's like, I could tell Pastor Alex, he's like, I could tell him, but he's going to talk his way him, but he's going to talk his way him, but he's going to talk his way there. He's going to get there. Yeah. there. He's going to get there. Yeah. there. He's going to get there. Yeah. Yeah, that's Yeah, Yeah, that's Yeah, Yeah, that's Yeah, really appreciate um really appreciate um really appreciate um having this conversation, like you having this conversation, like you having this conversation, like you opening up to your Instagram audience opening up to your Instagram audience opening up to your Instagram audience and and and and and and your DMs to work through this with your DMs to work through this with your DMs to work through this with people because it is like how much of people because it is like how much of people because it is like how much of our our our capitalist culture capitalist culture capitalist culture becomes adopted in our church culture.

becomes adopted in our church culture. becomes adopted in our church culture. And we're seeing, I think, going out on And we're seeing, I think, going out on And we're seeing, I think, going out on a limb here now, but we're we're seeing a limb here now, but we're we're seeing a limb here now, but we're we're seeing how how how it affects the health of our Christian it affects the health of our Christian it affects the health of our Christian communities. And in in a lot of ways, communities. And in in a lot of ways, communities. And in in a lot of ways, it's it's making us like more unhealthy it's it's making us like more unhealthy it's it's making us like more unhealthy than we should be. And so, it's going to than we should be. And so, it's going to than we should be. And so, it's going to take a lot of work. We we we we know take a lot of work. We we we we know take a lot of work. We we we we know this not just in theory, but in this not just in theory, but in this not just in theory, but in practice. It's going to take a lot of practice. It's going to take a lot of practice. It's going to take a lot of work to kind of push back on some of work to kind of push back on some of work to kind of push back on some of these cultural expectations of what we these cultural expectations of what we these cultural expectations of what we do in our communities. But for the sake do in our communities. But for the sake do in our communities. But for the sake of not just adhering to God's law of of not just adhering to God's law of of not just adhering to God's law of Sabbath, but for the sake of like of the Sabbath, but for the sake of like of the Sabbath, but for the sake of like of the reason for that law, which is like reason for that law, which is like reason for that law, which is like personal health, relationship with God, personal health, relationship with God, personal health, relationship with God, and health of our communities, I think and health of our communities, I think and health of our communities, I think it's essential. it's essential. it's essential. Final thought on this. Final thought on this. Final thought on this. Yes, when you do not have the ability to Yes, when you do not have the ability to Yes, when you do not have the ability to the means, let's call it, the means to the means, let's call it, the means to the means, let's call it, the means to cover all these things and maintain a cover all these things and maintain a cover all these things and maintain a Sabbath, you're basically living off of Sabbath, you're basically living off of Sabbath, you're basically living off of credit. credit. credit. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. We all know what it's like to put We all know what it's like to put We all know what it's like to put something on our credit card. Maybe you something on our credit card. Maybe you something on our credit card. Maybe you have a line of credit. Maybe you have have a line of credit. Maybe you have have a line of credit. Maybe you have debt. debt. debt. You can only put something on credit for You can only put something on credit for You can only put something on credit for so long so long so long before the bill comes due.

before the bill comes due. before the bill comes due. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The shortcut is I can't afford this. I'm The shortcut is I can't afford this. I'm The shortcut is I can't afford this. I'm going to put it on credit. going to put it on credit. going to put it on credit. But you cannot do that indefinitely. It But you cannot do that indefinitely. It But you cannot do that indefinitely. It works for a season. works for a season. works for a season. And that is the alluring, seducing part And that is the alluring, seducing part And that is the alluring, seducing part of this because of this because of this because the feedback loop you're seeing is, the feedback loop you're seeing is, the feedback loop you're seeing is, well, I I couldn't afford this, and yet well, I I couldn't afford this, and yet well, I I couldn't afford this, and yet I figured it out. I figured it out. I figured it out. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Positive feedback loop. I'm going to do Positive feedback loop. I'm going to do Positive feedback loop. I'm going to do this again, all the while digging a this again, all the while digging a this again, all the while digging a deeper hole that that it does finally deeper hole that that it does finally deeper hole that that it does finally come due, come due, come due, maybe we can't get out of it. maybe we can't get out of it. maybe we can't get out of it. Yeah. That's where burnout occurs. Yeah. That's where burnout occurs. Yeah. That's where burnout occurs. Yeah. That's where pastors with their Yeah. That's where pastors with their Yeah. That's where pastors with their moral failings occur because they're moral failings occur because they're moral failings occur because they're just stretched so thin. They don't even just stretched so thin. They don't even just stretched so thin. They don't even have the wherewithal to resist the have the wherewithal to resist the have the wherewithal to resist the temptation that will temptation that will temptation that will affect us all inevitably. affect us all inevitably. affect us all inevitably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next question. Bit of a unique question Next question. Bit of a unique question Next question. Bit of a unique question here. Uh how does the church recover in here. Uh how does the church recover in here. Uh how does the church recover in the social media climate when there is a the social media climate when there is a the social media climate when there is a viral video that tries to cancel the viral video that tries to cancel the viral video that tries to cancel the church for false reasons? My church has church for false reasons? My church has church for false reasons? My church has a tent outside that they normally have a tent outside that they normally have a tent outside that they normally have for refreshments and people can also for refreshments and people can also for refreshments and people can also watch service outside on the LED screen watch service outside on the LED screen watch service outside on the LED screen there. One Sunday a strange man came and there. One Sunday a strange man came and there. One Sunday a strange man came and started recording people from the started recording people from the started recording people from the church. Obviously, you can't stop people church. Obviously, you can't stop people church. Obviously, you can't stop people from recording on the street, but this from recording on the street, but this from recording on the street, but this was at the time where shootings were was at the time where shootings were was at the time where shootings were happening and there were children happening and there were children happening and there were children outside also that he was recording. My outside also that he was recording. My outside also that he was recording. My pastor was just being cautious and asked pastor was just being cautious and asked pastor was just being cautious and asked him if he could stop recording. The guy him if he could stop recording. The guy him if he could stop recording. The guy got mad and said we were infringing on got mad and said we were infringing on got mad and said we were infringing on his First Amendment rights. Turns out his First Amendment rights. Turns out his First Amendment rights. Turns out he's a YouTuber and posted the video in he's a YouTuber and posted the video in he's a YouTuber and posted the video in a negative light. Since then, the church a negative light. Since then, the church a negative light. Since then, the church itself has gotten many death threats and itself has gotten many death threats and itself has gotten many death threats and harassments via phone, email, and harassments via phone, email, and harassments via phone, email, and especially social media. We had to turn especially social media. We had to turn especially social media. We had to turn off comments on most things. I was off comments on most things. I was off comments on most things. I was wondering if you have any wisdom.

wondering if you have any wisdom. wondering if you have any wisdom. So, I'm going to preface my response So, I'm going to preface my response So, I'm going to preface my response here and say here and say here and say that everything I'm about I'm about to that everything I'm about I'm about to that everything I'm about I'm about to lay out has uh nothing to do with who's lay out has uh nothing to do with who's lay out has uh nothing to do with who's at fault, but just practically at fault, but just practically at fault, but just practically responding to the question. I responding to the question. I responding to the question. I aside from this paragraph of text in aside from this paragraph of text in aside from this paragraph of text in question, know nothing about this question, know nothing about this question, know nothing about this situation. I do not even know what situation. I do not even know what situation. I do not even know what church this is. So, we're just going to church this is. So, we're just going to church this is. So, we're just going to respond generally to there are false respond generally to there are false respond generally to there are false accusations against our church. They are accusations against our church. They are accusations against our church. They are affecting us negatively. What do we do? affecting us negatively. What do we do? affecting us negatively. What do we do? We're going to talk about three We're going to talk about three We're going to talk about three different options and one thing that I different options and one thing that I different options and one thing that I would suggest you definitely do not do. would suggest you definitely do not do. would suggest you definitely do not do. If it sounds like I'm talking about this If it sounds like I'm talking about this If it sounds like I'm talking about this in a callous way, in a callous way, in a callous way, forgive me. We're speaking practically forgive me. We're speaking practically forgive me. We're speaking practically here. So, here. So, here. So, start by putting ourselves in the shoes start by putting ourselves in the shoes start by putting ourselves in the shoes in the perspective of this YouTuber and in the perspective of this YouTuber and in the perspective of this YouTuber and their audience. Presumably, they are their audience. Presumably, they are their audience. Presumably, they are angry, they are upset, they are angry, they are upset, they are angry, they are upset, they are emotionally hurt. Why? They feel there emotionally hurt. Why? They feel there emotionally hurt. Why? They feel there was a wrongdoing. They feel like a was a wrongdoing. They feel like a was a wrongdoing. They feel like a church did something bad. That's how church did something bad. That's how church did something bad. That's how they're feeling. So, when we consider they're feeling. So, when we consider they're feeling. So, when we consider these motivations, it is imperative that these motivations, it is imperative that these motivations, it is imperative that we don't give them an avenue we don't give them an avenue we don't give them an avenue to direct this anger and hurt.

to direct this anger and hurt. to direct this anger and hurt. So, So, So, let's consider the three different let's consider the three different let's consider the three different responses. Option number one, and I'd responses. Option number one, and I'd responses. Option number one, and I'd say this is one of the worst options, say this is one of the worst options, say this is one of the worst options, one of the worst things that you can do, one of the worst things that you can do, one of the worst things that you can do, is is is continue as normal. You know what? We continue as normal. You know what? We continue as normal. You know what? We are not going to let these negative are not going to let these negative are not going to let these negative folks derail our momentum. We're going folks derail our momentum. We're going folks derail our momentum. We're going to keep things going. Meaning, you leave to keep things going. Meaning, you leave to keep things going. Meaning, you leave the comment open. And so, you have a the comment open. And so, you have a the comment open. And so, you have a public avenue for folks to direct their public avenue for folks to direct their public avenue for folks to direct their anger. Which means every time someone anger. Which means every time someone anger. Which means every time someone that doesn't know about this controversy that doesn't know about this controversy that doesn't know about this controversy lands on one of your posts, they get lands on one of your posts, they get lands on one of your posts, they get wrapped up in it themselves. And they wrapped up in it themselves. And they wrapped up in it themselves. And they go, "What What is happening here? I go, "What What is happening here? I go, "What What is happening here? I didn't know this at all." And it becomes didn't know this at all." And it becomes didn't know this at all." And it becomes this greater issue. this greater issue. this greater issue. If you play the game where you just If you play the game where you just If you play the game where you just delete comments, that's basically the delete comments, that's basically the delete comments, that's basically the feedback that angry folks are looking feedback that angry folks are looking feedback that angry folks are looking for because they can tell we are doing for because they can tell we are doing for because they can tell we are doing something right. Our efforts are making something right. Our efforts are making something right. Our efforts are making a difference. a difference. a difference. And so, I would not recommend that. I And so, I would not recommend that. I And so, I would not recommend that. I think the idea here is, oh, you know, think the idea here is, oh, you know, think the idea here is, oh, you know, eventually they're they're just going to eventually they're they're just going to eventually they're they're just going to relent.

relent. relent. I don't believe so. I think it's going I don't believe so. I think it's going I don't believe so. I think it's going to make the controversy greater. And And to make the controversy greater. And And to make the controversy greater. And And yes, you will have to get over kind of yes, you will have to get over kind of yes, you will have to get over kind of like your own pride and stuff. Am I not like your own pride and stuff. Am I not like your own pride and stuff. Am I not like like like We do not negotiate with terrorists. All We do not negotiate with terrorists. All We do not negotiate with terrorists. All right. All right. right. All right. right. All right. No, it's not exactly that, but I do I do No, it's not exactly that, but I do I do No, it's not exactly that, but I do I do empathize, or at least I can sympathize, empathize, or at least I can sympathize, empathize, or at least I can sympathize, with churches that are feeling like, you with churches that are feeling like, you with churches that are feeling like, you know, why are we going to let this third know, why are we going to let this third know, why are we going to let this third party that doesn't even care about our party that doesn't even care about our party that doesn't even care about our mission direct our own actions? Yeah, mission direct our own actions? Yeah, mission direct our own actions? Yeah, that's what makes these situations so that's what makes these situations so that's what makes these situations so tricky because what we're not doing is tricky because what we're not doing is tricky because what we're not doing is we're not deciding right and wrong in we're not deciding right and wrong in we're not deciding right and wrong in court. We are deciding right and wrong court. We are deciding right and wrong court. We are deciding right and wrong via public perception. That is via public perception. That is via public perception. That is incredibly nuanced, it is incredibly incredibly nuanced, it is incredibly incredibly nuanced, it is incredibly tricky, and I definitely feel sorry for tricky, and I definitely feel sorry for tricky, and I definitely feel sorry for any church that gets wrapped up in this, any church that gets wrapped up in this, any church that gets wrapped up in this, whether by the cause of their own whether by the cause of their own whether by the cause of their own actions or actions or actions or as we're assuming here, as we're assuming here, as we're assuming here, no fault of their own. Maybe a no fault of their own. Maybe a no fault of their own. Maybe a misunderstanding, maybe someone that had misunderstanding, maybe someone that had misunderstanding, maybe someone that had a bone to pick with churches because of a bone to pick with churches because of a bone to pick with churches because of past hurt that was unrelated to this past hurt that was unrelated to this past hurt that was unrelated to this church, and this church is kind of now church, and this church is kind of now church, and this church is kind of now suffering for the sins of others. suffering for the sins of others. suffering for the sins of others. Unfortunate, but we might have to kind Unfortunate, but we might have to kind Unfortunate, but we might have to kind of dial back on our pride to get through of dial back on our pride to get through of dial back on our pride to get through this season. So, that's option number this season. So, that's option number this season. So, that's option number one. Wouldn't recommend it. Option one. Wouldn't recommend it. Option one. Wouldn't recommend it. Option number two, you keep posting as normal, number two, you keep posting as normal, number two, you keep posting as normal, but you leave the comments closed. It but you leave the comments closed. It but you leave the comments closed. It sounds like this church has kind of sounds like this church has kind of sounds like this church has kind of tried to take the middle option so far tried to take the middle option so far tried to take the middle option so far and pursue that avenue. This does work and pursue that avenue. This does work and pursue that avenue. This does work well because it removes the publishing well because it removes the publishing well because it removes the publishing platform for people, meaning platform for people, meaning platform for people, meaning given enough time, and more people are given enough time, and more people are given enough time, and more people are likely to move on. I don't know if this likely to move on. I don't know if this likely to move on. I don't know if this has ever happened to you. Like, I'll has ever happened to you. Like, I'll has ever happened to you. Like, I'll scroll on TikTok, and I'll see a viral scroll on TikTok, and I'll see a viral scroll on TikTok, and I'll see a viral video, and I'll be like, oh, what are video, and I'll be like, oh, what are video, and I'll be like, oh, what are people saying in the comments?

people saying in the comments? people saying in the comments? it's all right. There was a controversy, it's all right. There was a controversy, it's all right. There was a controversy, and I missed it. There was tea. What is and I missed it. There was tea. What is and I missed it. There was tea. What is the tea? Why? Cuz I'm a sicko. That's the tea? Why? Cuz I'm a sicko. That's the tea? Why? Cuz I'm a sicko. That's why. All right, my human nature, it is depraved deep down. I want nature, it is depraved deep down. I want to see the tea. You close the comments, to see the tea. You close the comments, to see the tea. You close the comments, what am I going to do? All right, well, what am I going to do? All right, well, what am I going to do? All right, well, I'm not going to be able to track this I'm not going to be able to track this I'm not going to be able to track this down. So, keep scrolling, you move on. down. So, keep scrolling, you move on. down. So, keep scrolling, you move on. And that is kind of the nice thing about And that is kind of the nice thing about And that is kind of the nice thing about the middle option. But, the middle option. But, the middle option. But, because you are still publishing, this because you are still publishing, this because you are still publishing, this is the middle option, what you're not is the middle option, what you're not is the middle option, what you're not doing is giving people's feelings a doing is giving people's feelings a doing is giving people's feelings a chance to dissipate. In fact, I would chance to dissipate. In fact, I would chance to dissipate. In fact, I would say their anger might linger for longer say their anger might linger for longer say their anger might linger for longer because they'll feel like you need to be because they'll feel like you need to be because they'll feel like you need to be held to account. held to account. held to account. They did something wrong, and they're They did something wrong, and they're They did something wrong, and they're just kind of like just kind of like just kind of like sidestepping the issue, and there's no sidestepping the issue, and there's no sidestepping the issue, and there's no justice. justice. justice. This is their perspective, right? This is their perspective, right? This is their perspective, right? They're still being able to do what they They're still being able to do what they They're still being able to do what they normally do, and nothing is coming They normally do, and nothing is coming They normally do, and nothing is coming They deserve to be held to account. And so, deserve to be held to account. And so, deserve to be held to account. And so, you can't move past this. And what we're you can't move past this. And what we're you can't move past this. And what we're trying to balance here, I think anyway, trying to balance here, I think anyway, trying to balance here, I think anyway, is how quickly can we move past this is how quickly can we move past this is how quickly can we move past this and how can we make it a permanent and how can we make it a permanent and how can we make it a permanent moving on?

moving on? moving on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then finally, option number three, And then finally, option number three, And then finally, option number three, which is taking an extended break. This which is taking an extended break. This which is taking an extended break. This is going to be the most uh diffusing is going to be the most uh diffusing is going to be the most uh diffusing solution. I would also say it's going to solution. I would also say it's going to solution. I would also say it's going to be the most challenging solution for the be the most challenging solution for the be the most challenging solution for the church, at least in the short term, church, at least in the short term, church, at least in the short term, because it requires you to basically say because it requires you to basically say because it requires you to basically say we are going to negotiate with the we are going to negotiate with the we are going to negotiate with the terrorists. We're going to stop doing terrorists. We're going to stop doing terrorists. We're going to stop doing this thing because we need to get this thing because we need to get this thing because we need to get through this and we really don't see an through this and we really don't see an through this and we really don't see an avenue avenue avenue in the court of public perception and in the court of public perception and in the court of public perception and public opinion to get through this public opinion to get through this public opinion to get through this without making it a larger controversy without making it a larger controversy without making it a larger controversy unless we unless we unless we just step back and kind of just step back and kind of just step back and kind of take a break. take a break. take a break. And we see this in culture, right? A And we see this in culture, right? A And we see this in culture, right? A comedian has a controversy, comedian has a controversy, comedian has a controversy, uh actor, uh sport player, uh actor, uh sport player, uh actor, uh sport player, anyone in power has controversy, what do anyone in power has controversy, what do anyone in power has controversy, what do they do? They disappear they do? They disappear they do? They disappear 12 months. Boy, the comedians bounce 12 months. Boy, the comedians bounce 12 months. Boy, the comedians bounce back quick, don't they? And you know back quick, don't they? And you know back quick, don't they? And you know what? I think that, again, speaking what? I think that, again, speaking what? I think that, again, speaking practically, perhaps a bit callously, practically, perhaps a bit callously, practically, perhaps a bit callously, maybe it should be different, maybe it maybe it should be different, maybe it maybe it should be different, maybe it shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, it seems like you take enough break, it seems like you take enough break, it seems like you take enough break, people move on. And that is the thing people move on. And that is the thing people move on. And that is the thing about option number three, that if you about option number three, that if you about option number three, that if you can take a break, let's say three, six can take a break, let's say three, six can take a break, let's say three, six months kind of as a starting point, if months kind of as a starting point, if months kind of as a starting point, if you go silent online, not only now are you go silent online, not only now are you go silent online, not only now are you removing the publishing platform for you removing the publishing platform for you removing the publishing platform for people to kind of like air their people to kind of like air their people to kind of like air their grievances, but what you're also doing grievances, but what you're also doing grievances, but what you're also doing is you're giving the appearance that is you're giving the appearance that is you're giving the appearance that you're like serving time.

you're like serving time. you're like serving time. It's like It's like It's like you're putting yourself on time out. you're putting yourself on time out. you're putting yourself on time out. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And at least from their perspective, And at least from their perspective, And at least from their perspective, they're like, you know what? Justice was they're like, you know what? Justice was they're like, you know what? Justice was served. served. served. And and you might think that that is And and you might think that that is And and you might think that that is just not something you are willing to just not something you are willing to just not something you are willing to tolerate. Like, no, we are going to face tolerate. Like, no, we are going to face tolerate. Like, no, we are going to face fire with fire. Jesus never backed down. fire with fire. Jesus never backed down. fire with fire. Jesus never backed down. We won't either. And I can understand We won't either. And I can understand We won't either. And I can understand that perspective. I just think if the that perspective. I just think if the that perspective. I just think if the goal if the motivation is we want to goal if the motivation is we want to goal if the motivation is we want to move past this, we want to get back to move past this, we want to get back to move past this, we want to get back to like the mission of our church, these like the mission of our church, these like the mission of our church, these people do not care about the mission of people do not care about the mission of people do not care about the mission of our church. If you make your mission our church. If you make your mission our church. If you make your mission fighting them, fighting them, fighting them, that to me is worse than almost like in that to me is worse than almost like in that to me is worse than almost like in your mind listening to them. They get a your mind listening to them. They get a your mind listening to them. They get a win, but you get to get just keep win, but you get to get just keep win, but you get to get just keep focusing on you, your church stays focusing on you, your church stays focusing on you, your church stays focused. Yeah, you have a season online focused. Yeah, you have a season online focused. Yeah, you have a season online where you're not reaching as broadly where you're not reaching as broadly where you're not reaching as broadly online, online, online, but you focus on your mission, you stay but you focus on your mission, you stay but you focus on your mission, you stay focused on that mission, and then in 3 focused on that mission, and then in 3 focused on that mission, and then in 3 to 6 months, to 6 months, to 6 months, you kind of come back. you kind of come back. you kind of come back. Mhm. You publish a couple really safe Mhm. You publish a couple really safe Mhm. You publish a couple really safe things. You're testing the waters, and things. You're testing the waters, and things. You're testing the waters, and you slowly ramp up from there. Here's you slowly ramp up from there. Here's you slowly ramp up from there. Here's the thing, people move on. There's the thing, people move on. There's the thing, people move on. There's always another controversy to get always another controversy to get always another controversy to get attracted to. I was thinking about this.

attracted to. I was thinking about this. attracted to. I was thinking about this. This is probably not super related, but This is probably not super related, but This is probably not super related, but it feels related to me. it feels related to me. it feels related to me. Couple years ago, during the pandemic, Couple years ago, during the pandemic, Couple years ago, during the pandemic, there were all of the protests for Black there were all of the protests for Black there were all of the protests for Black Lives Matter. Lives Matter. Lives Matter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And And I feel like everyone I know, even here I feel like everyone I know, even here I feel like everyone I know, even here in Canada, in Canada, in Canada, where we have ethnic problems of our where we have ethnic problems of our where we have ethnic problems of our own, meaning we have not treated certain own, meaning we have not treated certain own, meaning we have not treated certain ethnic groups well, ethnic groups well, ethnic groups well, uh uh uh but not necessarily black folk in the but not necessarily black folk in the but not necessarily black folk in the same way as America. same way as America. same way as America. People over here marching in those People over here marching in those People over here marching in those protests. And I remember I felt protests. And I remember I felt protests. And I remember I felt something inside me. I was like, I am something inside me. I was like, I am something inside me. I was like, I am not going to march in these protests. not going to march in these protests. not going to march in these protests. Why? To me it felt performative. It felt Why? To me it felt performative. It felt Why? To me it felt performative. It felt like this thing where this was a like this thing where this was a like this thing where this was a cultural moment, and you didn't want to cultural moment, and you didn't want to cultural moment, and you didn't want to look like you weren't part of that look like you weren't part of that look like you weren't part of that cultural moment. But I was like, this cultural moment. But I was like, this cultural moment. But I was like, this doesn't feel genuine. Like we're not doesn't feel genuine. Like we're not doesn't feel genuine. Like we're not just walking in this like I I just walking in this like I I just walking in this like I I No No hate to those who did, but to me I No No hate to those who did, but to me I No No hate to those who did, but to me I was like, I can't get that far. And was like, I can't get that far. And was like, I can't get that far. And guess what? guess what? guess what? All the people that blacked out their All the people that blacked out their All the people that blacked out their Instagram like where where is that Instagram like where where is that Instagram like where where is that today? today? today? That That That the the the the root of that is the same the the the the root of that is the same the the the the root of that is the same thing here. People move on. Very few thing here. People move on. Very few thing here. People move on. Very few people care about something so much that people care about something so much that people care about something so much that they're like, yes, I'm going to be they're like, yes, I'm going to be they're like, yes, I'm going to be dedicated to it when dedicated to it when dedicated to it when everyone else in my tribe is, but I'm everyone else in my tribe is, but I'm everyone else in my tribe is, but I'm also going to be dedicated to it when also going to be dedicated to it when also going to be dedicated to it when people not in my tribe care about it.

people not in my tribe care about it. people not in my tribe care about it. That's all we're saying here. Mhm. So, That's all we're saying here. Mhm. So, That's all we're saying here. Mhm. So, it might feel like you're in the it might feel like you're in the it might feel like you're in the firestorm right now. This is such a huge firestorm right now. This is such a huge firestorm right now. This is such a huge thing. Eventually, that fire will burn thing. Eventually, that fire will burn thing. Eventually, that fire will burn out and it'll just be embers. And so, out and it'll just be embers. And so, out and it'll just be embers. And so, what you want to do is do any everything what you want to do is do any everything what you want to do is do any everything in your power to speed up throw some in your power to speed up throw some in your power to speed up throw some water on that fire. You throw water on water on that fire. You throw water on water on that fire. You throw water on that fire that fire that fire by just not fighting back. This is like by just not fighting back. This is like by just not fighting back. This is like you talk to your kid when they get you talk to your kid when they get you talk to your kid when they get bullied on the school playground. bullied on the school playground. bullied on the school playground. What do you do? The bully makes fun of What do you do? The bully makes fun of What do you do? The bully makes fun of you. you. you. Well, you kind of go All right. Cool. Well, you kind of go All right. Cool. Well, you kind of go All right. Cool. At least that's what my dad always told At least that's what my dad always told At least that's what my dad always told me. Maybe my dad should have said like, me. Maybe my dad should have said like, me. Maybe my dad should have said like, "Punch him in the face." "Punch him in the face." "Punch him in the face." But the way you diffuse a bully is But the way you diffuse a bully is But the way you diffuse a bully is you're like, I okay, cool. Like, you're you're like, I okay, cool. Like, you're you're like, I okay, cool. Like, you're insulting me. Like, doesn't bother me. insulting me. Like, doesn't bother me. insulting me. Like, doesn't bother me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm going to pick on someone Oh, okay. I'm going to pick on someone Oh, okay. I'm going to pick on someone that does care about it cuz I want that that does care about it cuz I want that that does care about it cuz I want that fire to be met with fire. That's what fire to be met with fire. That's what fire to be met with fire. That's what they want. So, don't let your pride they want. So, don't let your pride they want. So, don't let your pride trick you into doing exactly what they trick you into doing exactly what they trick you into doing exactly what they want and then in your mind you say, "But want and then in your mind you say, "But want and then in your mind you say, "But it's for the We got to stand up for it's for the We got to stand up for it's for the We got to stand up for God." It's like, "No, no, no. You are God." It's like, "No, no, no. You are God." It's like, "No, no, no. You are leaving your mission to now fight this leaving your mission to now fight this leaving your mission to now fight this other group that doesn't care about your other group that doesn't care about your other group that doesn't care about your mission at all. Isn't that like Isn't mission at all. Isn't that like Isn't mission at all. Isn't that like Isn't that pride thing like the root of of how that pride thing like the root of of how that pride thing like the root of of how a lot of folks make these decisions?

a lot of folks make these decisions? a lot of folks make these decisions? Like if you go with option three and you Like if you go with option three and you Like if you go with option three and you choose to put yourself in timeout, you choose to put yourself in timeout, you choose to put yourself in timeout, you might feel like within yourself that might feel like within yourself that might feel like within yourself that that's an admission of some sort of that's an admission of some sort of that's an admission of some sort of guilt. You know, like you may have a guilt. You know, like you may have a guilt. You know, like you may have a hard time going to sleep at night hard time going to sleep at night hard time going to sleep at night knowing that that your YouTube opponent knowing that that your YouTube opponent knowing that that your YouTube opponent may see that you're you've gone dark may see that you're you've gone dark may see that you're you've gone dark online and and feel justified. But online and and feel justified. But online and and feel justified. But that's just that's like ego. That's that's just that's like ego. That's that's just that's like ego. That's pride talking, right? Because below pride talking, right? Because below pride talking, right? Because below that, if you exercise humility knowing that, if you exercise humility knowing that, if you exercise humility knowing that Hold on. This is not about the that Hold on. This is not about the that Hold on. This is not about the fight. This is not about us admitting fight. This is not about us admitting fight. This is not about us admitting guilt. We know that we weren't doing guilt. We know that we weren't doing guilt. We know that we weren't doing anything wrong here. But it's okay if anything wrong here. But it's okay if anything wrong here. But it's okay if they perceive us that way because our they perceive us that way because our they perceive us that way because our goal here, our mission, is not to win goal here, our mission, is not to win goal here, our mission, is not to win the fight. Should you choose to accept the fight. Should you choose to accept the fight. Should you choose to accept it? it? it? Yes. Yes, exactly. Um but it's to put Yes. Yes, exactly. Um but it's to put Yes. Yes, exactly. Um but it's to put water on that on that fire. So, I've got water on that on that fire. So, I've got water on that on that fire. So, I've got a question. Ah. a question. Ah. a question. Ah. Should the church in this case or a Should the church in this case or a Should the church in this case or a similar case issue a public apology? similar case issue a public apology? similar case issue a public apology? So, this is the thing you don't want to So, this is the thing you don't want to So, this is the thing you don't want to do. do. do. Whatever you do, Whatever you do, Whatever you do, do not issue a public apology. do not issue a public apology. do not issue a public apology. And And And we're talking here practically again. we're talking here practically again. we're talking here practically again. There are times when churches should There are times when churches should There are times when churches should absolutely publicly apologize.

absolutely publicly apologize. absolutely publicly apologize. If you have, you know, hurt the If you have, you know, hurt the If you have, you know, hurt the congregation, if there has been an abuse congregation, if there has been an abuse congregation, if there has been an abuse of power, if these types of things have of power, if these types of things have of power, if these types of things have taken place, yes, absolutely, contrition taken place, yes, absolutely, contrition taken place, yes, absolutely, contrition and apologies to the the community, to and apologies to the the community, to and apologies to the the community, to your congregation can absolutely be your congregation can absolutely be your congregation can absolutely be appropriate. In the case where you have appropriate. In the case where you have appropriate. In the case where you have done nothing wrong, what we sometimes done nothing wrong, what we sometimes done nothing wrong, what we sometimes see is churches will kind of like make see is churches will kind of like make see is churches will kind of like make an apology because they're like, "I know an apology because they're like, "I know an apology because they're like, "I know this will be the water that that you this will be the water that that you this will be the water that that you know, takes out the fire." If we just know, takes out the fire." If we just know, takes out the fire." If we just apologize, you know, like that's exactly apologize, you know, like that's exactly apologize, you know, like that's exactly what we want. That's not what people what we want. That's not what people what we want. That's not what people want. When you apologize, people will want. When you apologize, people will want. When you apologize, people will then be like, "See, I knew it." then be like, "See, I knew it." then be like, "See, I knew it." You've admitted you're guilty, and now You've admitted you're guilty, and now You've admitted you're guilty, and now everything that you have coming for you everything that you have coming for you everything that you have coming for you still Yeah. Is not only still coming, still Yeah. Is not only still coming, still Yeah. Is not only still coming, but it is now deserved and you've but it is now deserved and you've but it is now deserved and you've acknowledged that. Apologies are kind of acknowledged that. Apologies are kind of acknowledged that. Apologies are kind of just like that's just like crucifixion just like that's just like crucifixion just like that's just like crucifixion people want to see. They're still going people want to see. They're still going people want to see. They're still going to let you die up there. They're not to let you die up there. They're not to let you die up there. They're not just going to like be like, "Hey, we just going to like be like, "Hey, we just going to like be like, "Hey, we want you to carry the cross, we want you want you to carry the cross, we want you want you to carry the cross, we want you to be humiliated, and then we're like, to be humiliated, and then we're like, to be humiliated, and then we're like, okay, fine, we're going to forgive you." okay, fine, we're going to forgive you." okay, fine, we're going to forgive you." No, no, you're going to carry the cross No, no, you're going to carry the cross No, no, you're going to carry the cross all the way up to, and then we're still all the way up to, and then we're still all the way up to, and then we're still going to hammer you on there. going to hammer you on there. going to hammer you on there. They just They can be out for blood. They just They can be out for blood. They just They can be out for blood. If you apologize, If you apologize, If you apologize, the thought is we're going to move on.

the thought is we're going to move on. the thought is we're going to move on. Rarely does that uh Rarely does that uh Rarely does that uh actually happen. You do not pacify the actually happen. You do not pacify the actually happen. You do not pacify the hurt and the angry. You always going to hurt and the angry. You always going to hurt and the angry. You always going to think, "Wait, where are they coming think, "Wait, where are they coming think, "Wait, where are they coming from?" from?" from?" You might not think that those reasons You might not think that those reasons You might not think that those reasons for being emotionally hurt, for being for being emotionally hurt, for being for being emotionally hurt, for being angry, are deserved, but that doesn't angry, are deserved, but that doesn't angry, are deserved, but that doesn't matter because that's how they feel. matter because that's how they feel. matter because that's how they feel. So, either you can tell them you So, either you can tell them you So, either you can tell them you shouldn't feel that way, good luck with shouldn't feel that way, good luck with shouldn't feel that way, good luck with that, or you can try to navigate these that, or you can try to navigate these that, or you can try to navigate these very murky and very tricky waters of, very murky and very tricky waters of, very murky and very tricky waters of, you know, this is what PR is all about. you know, this is what PR is all about. you know, this is what PR is all about. There are There's a reason why in big There are There's a reason why in big There are There's a reason why in big industries PR professionals are paid the industries PR professionals are paid the industries PR professionals are paid the big bucks because it is not easy to big bucks because it is not easy to big bucks because it is not easy to navigate the world of public opinion and navigate the world of public opinion and navigate the world of public opinion and perception. Because it's not about perception. Because it's not about perception. Because it's not about what's true, what's right, what's wrong, what's true, what's right, what's wrong, what's true, what's right, what's wrong, what's accurate, it's about what people what's accurate, it's about what people what's accurate, it's about what people feel. And so that's why you have to kill feel. And so that's why you have to kill feel. And so that's why you have to kill your ego here, kill your pride because your ego here, kill your pride because your ego here, kill your pride because if you elevate that if you elevate that if you elevate that above everything else, you're going to above everything else, you're going to above everything else, you're going to almost certainly do more damage in the almost certainly do more damage in the almost certainly do more damage in the long term. long term. long term. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, fourth and final question on Okay, fourth and final question on Okay, fourth and final question on today's show. You remember a few weeks today's show. You remember a few weeks today's show. You remember a few weeks ago I said that my dad admitted to me ago I said that my dad admitted to me ago I said that my dad admitted to me that he texted in a question, yeah, but that he texted in a question, yeah, but that he texted in a question, yeah, but anonymously. anonymously. anonymously. He never told me what the question was He never told me what the question was He never told me what the question was and when I read this question in our and when I read this question in our and when I read this question in our notes, I thought, "Mhm, notes, I thought, "Mhm, notes, I thought, "Mhm, it might be this one might be him." But it might be this one might be him." But it might be this one might be him." But is it? I don't know. So the question is it? I don't know. So the question is it? I don't know. So the question reads, "The two of you seem to have such reads, "The two of you seem to have such reads, "The two of you seem to have such good chemistry. We would like to know good chemistry. We would like to know good chemistry. We would like to know what is it that you have most in common what is it that you have most in common what is it that you have most in common versus not so common?" And I think it's versus not so common?" And I think it's versus not so common?" And I think it's a good question. I think that the reason a good question. I think that the reason a good question. I think that the reason this could be my dad is because it's this could be my dad is because it's this could be my dad is because it's often that he'll comment to me after the often that he'll comment to me after the often that he'll comment to me after the podcast be like, "You and Brady, you're podcast be like, "You and Brady, you're podcast be like, "You and Brady, you're just you guys are so good together." And just you guys are so good together." And just you guys are so good together." And he'll ask me a lot about these fourth he'll ask me a lot about these fourth he'll ask me a lot about these fourth questions. He'll be like, questions. He'll be like, questions. He'll be like, "How much of that do you guys have like "How much of that do you guys have like "How much of that do you guys have like scripted?" I'm like, "Dad, we don't

scripted?" I'm like, "Dad, we don't scripted?" I'm like, "Dad, we don't script anything. Like this is just this script anything. Like this is just this script anything. Like this is just this is us, man. Like we got some notes on is us, man. Like we got some notes on is us, man. Like we got some notes on on, you know, uh, Options one through on, you know, uh, Options one through on, you know, uh, Options one through three. three. three. Exactly, but like when it comes to the Exactly, but like when it comes to the Exactly, but like when it comes to the banter or what have you, like this is banter or what have you, like this is banter or what have you, like this is just us. That's not scripted. So just us. That's not scripted. So just us. That's not scripted. So he may have he may have tipped his hand he may have he may have tipped his hand he may have he may have tipped his hand here. I think this one might have come here. I think this one might have come here. I think this one might have come in from my dad. in from my dad. in from my dad. You only wrote one thing down. You only wrote one thing down. You only wrote one thing down. I did because you you summarized I did because you you summarized I did because you you summarized Ah. the best of us Ah. the best of us Ah. the best of us so well. so well. so well. So we broke it down into we, mostly me, So we broke it down into we, mostly me, So we broke it down into we, mostly me, into not in common and then things that into not in common and then things that into not in common and then things that we have most in common. we have most in common. we have most in common. Yeah. So I'm just going to read the one Yeah. So I'm just going to read the one Yeah. So I'm just going to read the one that Alex wrote not in common. that Alex wrote not in common. that Alex wrote not in common. Fragrances. Fragrances. Fragrances. Fragrances are an essential piece of Fragrances are an essential piece of Fragrances are an essential piece of Brady's daily ensembles. Brady's daily ensembles. Brady's daily ensembles. Alex is a sensitive little butterfly. Alex is a sensitive little butterfly. Alex is a sensitive little butterfly. Okay, so I remember during the pandemic, Okay, so I remember during the pandemic, Okay, so I remember during the pandemic, I went on this cleaning spree because I I went on this cleaning spree because I I went on this cleaning spree because I couldn't really do anything so I was couldn't really do anything so I was couldn't really do anything so I was like, "I'm going to clean." You know, like, "I'm going to clean." You know, like, "I'm going to clean." You know, these this high these high achievers these this high these high achievers these this high these high achievers sickos like us and that and that's what sickos like us and that and that's what sickos like us and that and that's what Alex and I definitely do share in Alex and I definitely do share in Alex and I definitely do share in common. We're these like, you know, common. We're these like, you know, common. We're these like, you know, achieving, you know, uh, reformer number achieving, you know, uh, reformer number achieving, you know, uh, reformer number one on the Enneagram, high achiever, one on the Enneagram, high achiever, one on the Enneagram, high achiever, whatever you call it. And, uh, so I whatever you call it. And, uh, so I whatever you call it. And, uh, so I couldn't do much in the pandemic. So, I couldn't do much in the pandemic. So, I couldn't do much in the pandemic. So, I start cleaning the office. And I start cleaning the office. And I start cleaning the office. And I finished the whole clean, and I'm like, finished the whole clean, and I'm like, finished the whole clean, and I'm like, you know what?

you know what? you know what? We just need like a good welcoming scent We just need like a good welcoming scent We just need like a good welcoming scent in here. So, I get like this expensive in here. So, I get like this expensive in here. So, I get like this expensive diffuser, and I get like this oil, and diffuser, and I get like this oil, and diffuser, and I get like this oil, and it's like, you know, like it's like, you know, like it's like, you know, like bright, happy thoughts. bright, happy thoughts. bright, happy thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I get like a Slack message from And I get like a Slack message from And I get like a Slack message from Alex. He's like, "I'm vomiting in the Alex. He's like, "I'm vomiting in the Alex. He's like, "I'm vomiting in the office." office." office." Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm not going to let my pride or Okay. I'm not going to let my pride or Okay. I'm not going to let my pride or my ego get in the way here. my ego get in the way here. my ego get in the way here. But I wasn't the only one who said But I wasn't the only one who said But I wasn't the only one who said something about the scent. something about the scent. something about the scent. Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. But was it a bad scent? Okay. But was it a bad scent? Okay. But was it a bad scent? No, and this is why I included this one No, and this is why I included this one No, and this is why I included this one is because your fragrances, did I char- is because your fragrances, did I char- is because your fragrances, did I char- did I characterize you well at an did I characterize you well at an did I characterize you well at an essential piece of your daily ensemble? essential piece of your daily ensemble? essential piece of your daily ensemble? Like Like Like Sure, but that's not like a core part of Sure, but that's not like a core part of Sure, but that's not like a core part of me. me. me. No, but like you you're pairing No, but like you you're pairing No, but like you you're pairing fragrances with with with seasons, with fragrances with with with seasons, with fragrances with with with seasons, with outfits. It's like it's it's it's a big outfits. It's like it's it's it's a big outfits. It's like it's it's it's a big part of like of how you move through the part of like of how you move through the part of like of how you move through the world personally, how you present world personally, how you present world personally, how you present through the world. through the world. through the world. what I got to say? No, no, I got to say. what I got to say? No, no, I got to say. what I got to say? No, no, I got to say. I got to cut you off here. I got to cut you off here. I got to cut you off here. You've really just reduced me to he You've really just reduced me to he You've really just reduced me to he likes to smell good. And you know, of likes to smell good. And you know, of likes to smell good. And you know, of all the things that I wrote down about all the things that I wrote down about all the things that I wrote down about you, maybe we don't have as much in you, maybe we don't have as much in you, maybe we don't have as much in common as I thought. Maybe this is your common as I thought. Maybe this is your common as I thought. Maybe this is your dad's plot. He is he's working on 4D dad's plot. He is he's working on 4D dad's plot. He is he's working on 4D chess. He's like, "I got to break these chess. He's like, "I got to break these chess. He's like, "I got to break these two up." And he might have just done it.

two up." And he might have just done it. two up." And he might have just done it. I have this profound exposition, and I I have this profound exposition, and I I have this profound exposition, and I had barely anything. He likes he likes had barely anything. He likes he likes had barely anything. He likes he likes squirtin' fragrance on himself. squirtin' fragrance on himself. squirtin' fragrance on himself. Spritzin'. But for me Spritzin'. But for me Spritzin'. But for me I am sensitive to all scents. Not even I am sensitive to all scents. Not even I am sensitive to all scents. Not even just like synthetic ones, but like, um, just like synthetic ones, but like, um, just like synthetic ones, but like, um, my wife, she's Rebecca, she's into the my wife, she's Rebecca, she's into the my wife, she's Rebecca, she's into the oils, essential oils, which, I mean, oils, essential oils, which, I mean, oils, essential oils, which, I mean, take it or leave it. But some of them take it or leave it. But some of them take it or leave it. But some of them I'm just like, I'm sorry, like I we I'm just like, I'm sorry, like I we I'm just like, I'm sorry, like I we can't do. There's one, I forget the name can't do. There's one, I forget the name can't do. There's one, I forget the name because it's so repulsive, but it she because it's so repulsive, but it she because it's so repulsive, but it she she used to use it, and I'm like, "I'm she used to use it, and I'm like, "I'm she used to use it, and I'm like, "I'm sorry. I'm like, if you need to use sorry. I'm like, if you need to use sorry. I'm like, if you need to use that, I'm happy for you, but we can't be that, I'm happy for you, but we can't be that, I'm happy for you, but we can't be in the same car when it's been freshly in the same car when it's been freshly in the same car when it's been freshly applied because I'm just sensitive. I'm applied because I'm just sensitive. I'm applied because I'm just sensitive. I'm I'm a little baby boy and when there are I'm a little baby boy and when there are I'm a little baby boy and when there are intense scents around, I really don't intense scents around, I really don't intense scents around, I really don't feel good. Um that being said, to feel good. Um that being said, to feel good. Um that being said, to compliment your fragrances, compliment your fragrances, compliment your fragrances, uh I have never felt that way around uh I have never felt that way around uh I have never felt that way around your fragrances. Um so I don't wear them your fragrances. Um so I don't wear them your fragrances. Um so I don't wear them on myself uh for this yet for this on myself uh for this yet for this on myself uh for this yet for this reason. Uh but yeah, I just we we don't reason. Uh but yeah, I just we we don't reason. Uh but yeah, I just we we don't share that in common. And we're in a share that in common. And we're in a share that in common. And we're in a pretty small office. Yeah. We explored pretty small office. Yeah. We explored pretty small office. Yeah. We explored the office in last week's episode. Like the office in last week's episode. Like the office in last week's episode. Like have you ever smell Can you smell what have you ever smell Can you smell what have you ever smell Can you smell what I'm wearing right now? Not now, but when I'm wearing right now? Not now, but when I'm wearing right now? Not now, but when you walked in. Okay, like I have been you walked in. Okay, like I have been you walked in. Okay, like I have been aggressively putting on fragrances.

aggressively putting on fragrances. aggressively putting on fragrances. Yeah. Like people will say, "Oh, you Yeah. Like people will say, "Oh, you Yeah. Like people will say, "Oh, you know, like this is a long-lasting one, know, like this is a long-lasting one, know, like this is a long-lasting one, three or four sprays." I'm putting on three or four sprays." I'm putting on three or four sprays." I'm putting on like eight sprays because there's like eight sprays because there's like eight sprays because there's something about my skin chemistry that something about my skin chemistry that something about my skin chemistry that just doesn't seem to like keep it on for just doesn't seem to like keep it on for just doesn't seem to like keep it on for a long time. a long time. a long time. with you really nice in the office. with you really nice in the office. with you really nice in the office. Yeah, but now But not overwhelming. I Yeah, but now But not overwhelming. I Yeah, but now But not overwhelming. I feel fine. Xerjoff 40 Knots. feel fine. Xerjoff 40 Knots. feel fine. Xerjoff 40 Knots. Excellent. What else don't we have in Excellent. What else don't we have in Excellent. What else don't we have in common? common? common? No. No, it's not 40 Knots. It's Xerjoff No. No, it's not 40 Knots. It's Xerjoff No. No, it's not 40 Knots. It's Xerjoff Torino 21, which was made for the uh the Torino 21, which was made for the uh the Torino 21, which was made for the uh the open. What What tennis tournament takes open. What What tennis tournament takes open. What What tennis tournament takes place in Torino, place in Torino, place in Torino, Italy? Torino, Italy? Italy? Torino, Italy? Italy? Torino, Italy? Turin. Turin. Turin. None of the major ones. Interesting. None of the major ones. Interesting. None of the major ones. Interesting. This was made by Anyway. This was made by Anyway. This was made by Anyway. You know what else, sensitive little You know what else, sensitive little You know what else, sensitive little butterfly? What we have in common. This butterfly? What we have in common. This butterfly? What we have in common. This man can't drive with him. Why? The man man can't drive with him. Why? The man man can't drive with him. Why? The man gets motion sick going to bed. He like gets motion sick going to bed. He like gets motion sick going to bed. He like rolls over in bed and he's like, "Oh, my rolls over in bed and he's like, "Oh, my rolls over in bed and he's like, "Oh, my tummy." That's a literal fact. Yeah, tummy." That's a literal fact. Yeah, tummy." That's a literal fact. Yeah, that does happen. Sometimes I have I'm prone to getting vertigo. Well, and I'm prone to getting vertigo. Well, and that and that is serious. that and that is serious. that and that is serious. There are There are crystals in your There are There are crystals in your There are There are crystals in your inner ear that mine are prone to inner ear that mine are prone to inner ear that mine are prone to dislodge, and so it's funny that you dislodge, and so it's funny that you dislodge, and so it's funny that you bring that up because the last time it bring that up because the last time it bring that up because the last time it happened, which was not uh which was happened, which was not uh which was happened, which was not uh which was pretty recently, it happened by turning pretty recently, it happened by turning pretty recently, it happened by turning over from one side of my pillow to the over from one side of my pillow to the over from one side of my pillow to the other.

other. other. But yes, I'm prone to motion sickness, But yes, I'm prone to motion sickness, But yes, I'm prone to motion sickness, and so today when we go for lunch, it's and so today when we go for lunch, it's and so today when we go for lunch, it's it's generally it's well known and it's generally it's well known and it's generally it's well known and generally accepted that like I will be generally accepted that like I will be generally accepted that like I will be in the driver's seat of one of the cars. in the driver's seat of one of the cars. in the driver's seat of one of the cars. Now, was it always well-known? Now, was it always well-known? Now, was it always well-known? Uh not not amongst this friend group. Uh not not amongst this friend group. Uh not not amongst this friend group. remember perhaps like as an adult at the remember perhaps like as an adult at the remember perhaps like as an adult at the time? time? time? Because as an adult like when you're a Because as an adult like when you're a Because as an adult like when you're a kid it's like your mom speaks up for you kid it's like your mom speaks up for you kid it's like your mom speaks up for you she's like Alexander will get sick. Like she's like Alexander will get sick. Like she's like Alexander will get sick. Like okay and I'm wearing the red wristbands, okay and I'm wearing the red wristbands, okay and I'm wearing the red wristbands, you know, the motion sickness. you know, the motion sickness. you know, the motion sickness. But as an adult it's like But as an adult it's like But as an adult it's like It's such like a it's such an It's such like a it's such an It's such like a it's such an inconvenience it's a sensitive little inconvenience it's a sensitive little inconvenience it's a sensitive little butterfly kind of thing. It's like can I butterfly kind of thing. It's like can I butterfly kind of thing. It's like can I Can I drive or sit in the front seat? Can I drive or sit in the front seat? Can I drive or sit in the front seat? Yeah. Uh but Britney your wife she gets Yeah. Uh but Britney your wife she gets Yeah. Uh but Britney your wife she gets motion sick and um yeah so when I when I motion sick and um yeah so when I when I motion sick and um yeah so when I when I became adopted into this friend group, became adopted into this friend group, became adopted into this friend group, you know, I'm I'm finding my way cuz all you know, I'm I'm finding my way cuz all you know, I'm I'm finding my way cuz all you guys you went to school together you you guys you went to school together you you guys you went to school together you grew up together. I'm I'm the odd one grew up together. I'm I'm the odd one grew up together. I'm I'm the odd one out so I'm finding my way. You and I out so I'm finding my way. You and I out so I'm finding my way. You and I start traveling together which is start traveling together which is start traveling together which is something we we have very much in common something we we have very much in common something we we have very much in common we love to travel we love to travel we love to travel we love to travel we love to travel we love to travel together. together. together. And you're a friend but you're also the And you're a friend but you're also the And you're a friend but you're also the boss and so like we're renting the car boss and so like we're renting the car boss and so like we're renting the car we're traveling for work and it's like we're traveling for work and it's like we're traveling for work and it's like yeah I'm not going to mention to Brady yeah I'm not going to mention to Brady yeah I'm not going to mention to Brady that I'm I'm I'm withholding vomit while that I'm I'm I'm withholding vomit while that I'm I'm I'm withholding vomit while I sit in the passenger seat while he I sit in the passenger seat while he I sit in the passenger seat while he drives not to any fault of yours not drives not to any fault of yours not drives not to any fault of yours not you're driving erratically just like I I you're driving erratically just like I I you're driving erratically just like I I prefer to be in the driver's seat. And prefer to be in the driver's seat. And prefer to be in the driver's seat. And so it it came to a head um so it it came to a head um so it it came to a head um at some point I don't I don't I don't at some point I don't I don't I don't at some point I don't I don't I don't even remember how it like how it came even remember how it like how it came even remember how it like how it came up. Let me paint a picture here, all up. Let me paint a picture here, all up. Let me paint a picture here, all right? We're in Utah.

right? We're in Utah. right? We're in Utah. Here's the thing about Southern Utah. No Here's the thing about Southern Utah. No Here's the thing about Southern Utah. No one lives there. So every time we were one lives there. So every time we were one lives there. So every time we were going from one city to another it was a going from one city to another it was a going from one city to another it was a 6 to 8-hour drive. 6 to 8-hour drive. 6 to 8-hour drive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the other thing about Utah. And here's the other thing about Utah. And here's the other thing about Utah. It's 8 billion degrees in the desert. It's 8 billion degrees in the desert. It's 8 billion degrees in the desert. a good scene. Here's the other thing a good scene. Here's the other thing a good scene. Here's the other thing about this driving Utah. I was listening about this driving Utah. I was listening about this driving Utah. I was listening to a very niche basketball podcast that to a very niche basketball podcast that to a very niche basketball podcast that Alex was not especially interested in Alex was not especially interested in Alex was not especially interested in but was also 12 hours long. but was also 12 hours long. but was also 12 hours long. Yes. So this man without telling me is Yes. So this man without telling me is Yes. So this man without telling me is suffering in the passenger seat about to suffering in the passenger seat about to suffering in the passenger seat about to vomit listening to a fantasy mock draft vomit listening to a fantasy mock draft vomit listening to a fantasy mock draft meaning this isn't actually how the NBA meaning this isn't actually how the NBA meaning this isn't actually how the NBA draft would go or NBA free agency would draft would go or NBA free agency would draft would go or NBA free agency would go but it's like you know if I was this go but it's like you know if I was this go but it's like you know if I was this team here's what I'd do and I'd trade team here's what I'd do and I'd trade team here's what I'd do and I'd trade you this player for this and I'm like you this player for this and I'm like you this player for this and I'm like this is fascinating. This man is this is fascinating. This man is this is fascinating. This man is literally melting to death while holding literally melting to death while holding literally melting to death while holding back vomit. back vomit. back vomit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Won't tell me. Won't tell me. Won't tell me. I don't I don't remember how it came up I don't I don't remember how it came up I don't I don't remember how it came up though, how you came to learn that I though, how you came to learn that I though, how you came to learn that I wasn't feeling well. Rebecca probably wasn't feeling well. Rebecca probably wasn't feeling well. Rebecca probably texted you or something. texted you or something. texted you or something. Alexander's tummy hurts. Alexander's tummy hurts. Alexander's tummy hurts. But yeah, since since then we've been on But yeah, since since then we've been on But yeah, since since then we've been on quite a few trips since then. Which by quite a few trips since then. Which by quite a few trips since then. Which by the way, that Utah trip, one of our the way, that Utah trip, one of our the way, that Utah trip, one of our best, regardless of how I was feeling in best, regardless of how I was feeling in best, regardless of how I was feeling in the car. the car. the car. Uh Uh Uh Speaking of inner ears, mine never Speaking of inner ears, mine never Speaking of inner ears, mine never popped on the way down that trip. So, I popped on the way down that trip. So, I popped on the way down that trip. So, I was like talking and couldn't even hear was like talking and couldn't even hear was like talking and couldn't even hear myself.

All right, let's talk about things that All right, let's talk about things that we do have in common. we do have in common. we do have in common. Uh theology and politics. Yeah. So, Uh theology and politics. Yeah. So, Uh theology and politics. Yeah. So, almost never would we clash on some of almost never would we clash on some of almost never would we clash on some of the things that are most difficult for the things that are most difficult for the things that are most difficult for friendships and relationships and family friendships and relationships and family friendships and relationships and family to navigate. to navigate. to navigate. Which is funny cuz I was reflecting on Which is funny cuz I was reflecting on Which is funny cuz I was reflecting on this today and thinking about this today and thinking about this today and thinking about it related to the first question. We it related to the first question. We it related to the first question. We went to the same Bible school and we went to the same Bible school and we went to the same Bible school and we both had good experiences there, but both had good experiences there, but both had good experiences there, but we've both grown we've both grown we've both grown in maturity in our faith or like just in maturity in our faith or like just in maturity in our faith or like just grown into our our faith of our grown into our our faith of our grown into our our faith of our expression of our adulthood and have expression of our adulthood and have expression of our adulthood and have made quite a bit of a departure from made quite a bit of a departure from made quite a bit of a departure from some of that stuff. It's true. Um you some of that stuff. It's true. Um you some of that stuff. It's true. Um you and I share and I share and I share during that season of our lives our during that season of our lives our during that season of our lives our favorite book, Systematic Theology, and favorite book, Systematic Theology, and favorite book, Systematic Theology, and right, that's not a book that you and I right, that's not a book that you and I right, that's not a book that you and I reference that much anymore. And so we reference that much anymore. And so we reference that much anymore. And so we we've grown up, we've grown out of some we've grown up, we've grown out of some we've grown up, we've grown out of some things. And I was reflecting on this things. And I was reflecting on this things. And I was reflecting on this today because today because today because in our youth we shared a lot of the same in our youth we shared a lot of the same in our youth we shared a lot of the same theology in the sense that we went to theology in the sense that we went to theology in the sense that we went to the same type of school, literally same the same type of school, literally same the same type of school, literally same school, but Pentecostal school. school, but Pentecostal school. school, but Pentecostal school. And in our adulthood we have And in our adulthood we have And in our adulthood we have followed a similar trajectory and I was followed a similar trajectory and I was followed a similar trajectory and I was trying to reflect and wonder why, like trying to reflect and wonder why, like trying to reflect and wonder why, like what is the reason, but we've landed, what is the reason, but we've landed, what is the reason, but we've landed, not that we've arrived, but at least not that we've arrived, but at least not that we've arrived, but at least where we are today, we've landed in a where we are today, we've landed in a where we are today, we've landed in a similar place theology-wise, which similar place theology-wise, which similar place theology-wise, which informs our politics. And I just found informs our politics. And I just found informs our politics. And I just found that I found that curious.

that I found that curious. that I found that curious. Yeah, that is interesting. I think maybe Yeah, that is interesting. I think maybe Yeah, that is interesting. I think maybe what it has to do with is like we have what it has to do with is like we have what it has to do with is like we have we share the same North Star. Right. we share the same North Star. Right. we share the same North Star. Right. Like the same core motivations are what Like the same core motivations are what Like the same core motivations are what drive both of us. drive both of us. drive both of us. And so as we get older and perhaps our And so as we get older and perhaps our And so as we get older and perhaps our prefrontal cortexes uh mature and reach prefrontal cortexes uh mature and reach prefrontal cortexes uh mature and reach certain stages, those core motivations, certain stages, those core motivations, certain stages, those core motivations, which are probably have been the same which are probably have been the same which are probably have been the same since we were younger, are maybe being since we were younger, are maybe being since we were younger, are maybe being applied in more balanced, nuanced, or applied in more balanced, nuanced, or applied in more balanced, nuanced, or mature ways. mature ways. mature ways. But, I think sometimes what you learn But, I think sometimes what you learn But, I think sometimes what you learn about people close to you is like you about people close to you is like you about people close to you is like you might share ancillary interests. You might share ancillary interests. You might share ancillary interests. You might even express certain values might even express certain values might even express certain values similarly, but it might not be the same similarly, but it might not be the same similarly, but it might not be the same motivations that are inspiring those motivations that are inspiring those motivations that are inspiring those expressions of values. And then expressions of values. And then expressions of values. And then sometimes something happens where you sometimes something happens where you sometimes something happens where you see a difference in core values, you're see a difference in core values, you're see a difference in core values, you're like, "What?" like, "What?" like, "What?" I thought I thought I thought And And And that's okay. We can have different that's okay. We can have different that's okay. We can have different values from people. We can have values from people. We can have values from people. We can have different motivations, different motivations, different motivations, but it's very easy to get along when but it's very easy to get along when but it's very easy to get along when you're almost always coming you're almost always coming you're almost always coming across the finish line with the same across the finish line with the same across the finish line with the same conclusion because the motivations are conclusion because the motivations are conclusion because the motivations are the same. And from the outside it might the same. And from the outside it might the same. And from the outside it might it it it folks who are listening who don't know folks who are listening who don't know folks who are listening who don't know us as well might think like, "Oh, well, us as well might think like, "Oh, well, us as well might think like, "Oh, well, you know, you guys in the office you're you know, you guys in the office you're you know, you guys in the office you're all pretty tight-knit. Like it's a it's all pretty tight-knit. Like it's a it's all pretty tight-knit. Like it's a it's a tribal thing. Like you guys you guys a tribal thing. Like you guys you guys a tribal thing. Like you guys you guys are a tribe, so of course of course you are a tribe, so of course of course you are a tribe, so of course of course you believe the same things." But like believe the same things." But like believe the same things." But like our our beliefs here and practices of our our beliefs here and practices of our our beliefs here and practices of our faith in this office, they are our faith in this office, they are our faith in this office, they are a mosaic of all sorts of like there's a mosaic of all sorts of like there's a mosaic of all sorts of like there's only two of us that go to church only two of us that go to church only two of us that go to church together. The rest of us we all go to together. The rest of us we all go to together. The rest of us we all go to different churches. We all our beliefs different churches. We all our beliefs different churches. We all our beliefs about

about about a lot of things, theology, a lot of things, theology, a lot of things, theology, politics-wise, like they vary in all politics-wise, like they vary in all politics-wise, like they vary in all sorts of good ways. And uh About as far sorts of good ways. And uh About as far sorts of good ways. And uh About as far on each end of the spectrum and on each end of the spectrum and on each end of the spectrum and everywhere in between that you could everywhere in between that you could everywhere in between that you could imagine. imagine. imagine. Yeah. So. Yeah. So. Yeah. So. Yeah, I tried to stir that up a little Yeah, I tried to stir that up a little Yeah, I tried to stir that up a little bit in Slack last week by asking a bit in Slack last week by asking a bit in Slack last week by asking a question that I knew was going to question that I knew was going to question that I knew was going to inspire some inspire some inspire some never do that. You're always like, never do that. You're always like, never do that. You're always like, "Look, guys, we're all listed this "Look, guys, we're all listed this "Look, guys, we're all listed this together." He gets into Slack he's like, together." He gets into Slack he's like, together." He gets into Slack he's like, "Ooh." Like show yourselves. Adam bomb. "Ooh." Like show yourselves. Adam bomb. "Ooh." Like show yourselves. Adam bomb. Okay, most in common. Humor. Okay, most in common. Humor. Okay, most in common. Humor. We are we both have a pretty dry wit We are we both have a pretty dry wit We are we both have a pretty dry wit Yeah. mixed with some good sarcasm. Yeah. mixed with some good sarcasm. Yeah. mixed with some good sarcasm. Yeah. So, that's always good. Yeah. So, that's always good. Yeah. So, that's always good. Yeah, the Tik the Tik Toks that we share Yeah, the Tik the Tik Toks that we share Yeah, the Tik the Tik Toks that we share back and forth that we find funny are, back and forth that we find funny are, back and forth that we find funny are, they're in the same genre of Tik Tok. they're in the same genre of Tik Tok. they're in the same genre of Tik Tok. They will remain private. So, I think I They will remain private. So, I think I They will remain private. So, I think I think you know, banter which is good on think you know, banter which is good on think you know, banter which is good on a podcast, it also works when you have a podcast, it also works when you have a podcast, it also works when you have the same sense of humor. And this is the same sense of humor. And this is the same sense of humor. And this is just speaking in terms of just speaking in terms of just speaking in terms of the quality of what folks hopefully are the quality of what folks hopefully are the quality of what folks hopefully are listening to. When you can go back and listening to. When you can go back and listening to. When you can go back and forth on that. forth on that. forth on that. Um Um Um then there are just ancillary interests, then there are just ancillary interests, then there are just ancillary interests, you know, just kind of like recreational you know, just kind of like recreational you know, just kind of like recreational things. So, food, love of nature, things. So, food, love of nature, things. So, food, love of nature, creative expression, travel, though that creative expression, travel, though that creative expression, travel, though that is on an indefinite hiatus while our is on an indefinite hiatus while our is on an indefinite hiatus while our children are in their wee little years.

children are in their wee little years. children are in their wee little years. I was DMing your wife yesterday cuz she I was DMing your wife yesterday cuz she I was DMing your wife yesterday cuz she sent me this reel of Bali. sent me this reel of Bali. sent me this reel of Bali. And she was like And she was like And she was like cancel Dominican, which is where we do cancel Dominican, which is where we do cancel Dominican, which is where we do our or have done our yearly retreat for our or have done our yearly retreat for our or have done our yearly retreat for the company. And I was like the company. And I was like the company. And I was like yeah, like save for the 12 hour time yeah, like save for the 12 hour time yeah, like save for the 12 hour time change and the 24 hour flight. change and the 24 hour flight. change and the 24 hour flight. Curiously, she then responds, no, for Curiously, she then responds, no, for Curiously, she then responds, no, for when we travel again. I was like when we travel again. I was like when we travel again. I was like okay, why are we canceling the retreat? okay, why are we canceling the retreat? okay, why are we canceling the retreat? I was like skip right by that. And I I was like skip right by that. And I I was like skip right by that. And I said I said, you know, I wrote Tristan said I said, you know, I wrote Tristan said I said, you know, I wrote Tristan and Alex this week and I said, you know, and Alex this week and I said, you know, and Alex this week and I said, you know, man, can't wait to travel again in six man, can't wait to travel again in six man, can't wait to travel again in six to eight years. Which that seems it to eight years. Which that seems it to eight years. Which that seems it seems safe, right? seems safe, right? seems safe, right? Yeah, I mean, you kind of you kind of Yeah, I mean, you kind of you kind of Yeah, I mean, you kind of you kind of hit the reset button. So, your oldest hit the reset button. So, your oldest hit the reset button. So, your oldest little she's how old is she? She's little she's how old is she? She's little she's how old is she? She's eight. eight. eight. And so, you had kids way before all of And so, you had kids way before all of And so, you had kids way before all of us. So, the rest of us are having babies us. So, the rest of us are having babies us. So, the rest of us are having babies all at the same time and so, we're all at the same time and so, we're all at the same time and so, we're entering a stage that you have grown out entering a stage that you have grown out entering a stage that you have grown out of. And then you hit the reset button. of. And then you hit the reset button. of. And then you hit the reset button. You had you just decided to get pregnant You had you just decided to get pregnant You had you just decided to get pregnant again and your Sadie just turned one and again and your Sadie just turned one and again and your Sadie just turned one and so, you're in the thick of it with us. so, you're in the thick of it with us. so, you're in the thick of it with us. And so, the change of life that kind of And so, the change of life that kind of And so, the change of life that kind of changed my ability and Tristan's changed my ability and Tristan's changed my ability and Tristan's availability to travel has also plagued availability to travel has also plagued availability to travel has also plagued you. And so, yeah, when when we grow out you. And so, yeah, when when we grow out you. And so, yeah, when when we grow out of that together, five, six, seven years of that together, five, six, seven years of that together, five, six, seven years from now. Oh, wow. I said six to eight, from now. Oh, wow. I said six to eight, from now. Oh, wow. I said six to eight, you're coming in at five. I think you're coming in at five. I think you're coming in at five. I think Rebecca said four. I think she's saying Rebecca said four. I think she's saying Rebecca said four. I think she's saying you know, baby number two, four years in you know, baby number two, four years in you know, baby number two, four years in school. Just got to get them to school.

school. Just got to get them to school. school. Just got to get them to school. makes sense. School does change makes sense. School does change makes sense. School does change everything. everything. everything. Yeah. We'll be on the road to Bali Yeah. We'll be on the road to Bali Yeah. We'll be on the road to Bali together in no time. together in no time. together in no time. Oh, praise God. What kind of what kind Oh, praise God. What kind of what kind Oh, praise God. What kind of what kind of cars do they have there? Like of cars do they have there? Like of cars do they have there? Like what will we be driving? Bikes, what will we be driving? Bikes, what will we be driving? Bikes, scooters? scooters? scooters? I can handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Look, if I can handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Look, if I can handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Look, if Tom Cruise can take one off of a Tom Cruise can take one off of a Tom Cruise can take one off of a mountain to then parachute onto a train, mountain to then parachute onto a train, mountain to then parachute onto a train, no spoilers. That was in the trailer, no spoilers. That was in the trailer, no spoilers. That was in the trailer, people. people. people. Can we not bike from one Airbnb, one Can we not bike from one Airbnb, one Can we not bike from one Airbnb, one beach to the next? These things that beach to the next? These things that beach to the next? These things that that you just listed that we have in that you just listed that we have in that you just listed that we have in common like common like common like you know, ancillary things like like you know, ancillary things like like you know, ancillary things like like food and food and food and love of nature, creative expressions, love of nature, creative expressions, love of nature, creative expressions, travel like they are ancillary but right travel like they are ancillary but right travel like they are ancillary but right now like they make up a lot of our now like they make up a lot of our now like they make up a lot of our interests and like the stuff of our interests and like the stuff of our interests and like the stuff of our lives. And so those are things that do lives. And so those are things that do lives. And so those are things that do keep us like There's the surface level keep us like There's the surface level keep us like There's the surface level stuff which is that stuff which is that stuff which is that but then there's the next foundational but then there's the next foundational but then there's the next foundational level stuff which is also in sync cuz level stuff which is also in sync cuz level stuff which is also in sync cuz you can share the same values as people you can share the same values as people you can share the same values as people but if they don't like doing the same but if they don't like doing the same but if they don't like doing the same things that you do then you don't really things that you do then you don't really things that you do then you don't really get to spend as much time with them. get to spend as much time with them. get to spend as much time with them. So we spend a lot of time together over So we spend a lot of time together over So we spend a lot of time together over a dinner table or even just talking a dinner table or even just talking a dinner table or even just talking about food about food about food for example. So yeah.

for example. So yeah. for example. So yeah. Final thing we share in common. We work Final thing we share in common. We work Final thing we share in common. We work at the same company. Which is really at the same company. Which is really at the same company. Which is really important because you have kids and you important because you have kids and you important because you have kids and you can't travel anymore. But also what can't travel anymore. But also what can't travel anymore. But also what happens and I saw this with my parents happens and I saw this with my parents happens and I saw this with my parents which was a huge motivation for hiring which was a huge motivation for hiring which was a huge motivation for hiring my friends and kind of structuring the my friends and kind of structuring the my friends and kind of structuring the business that we have is that you just business that we have is that you just business that we have is that you just don't get to spend time with people as don't get to spend time with people as don't get to spend time with people as much. So on Wednesdays which is today much. So on Wednesdays which is today much. So on Wednesdays which is today when we record we record a week early when we record we record a week early when we record we record a week early now with the podcast. We used to record now with the podcast. We used to record now with the podcast. We used to record just a day before but Alex has a lot of just a day before but Alex has a lot of just a day before but Alex has a lot of video editing work to do on the show. So video editing work to do on the show. So video editing work to do on the show. So we're recording this a week ahead. I we're recording this a week ahead. I we're recording this a week ahead. I come in Wednesday morning we film. come in Wednesday morning we film. come in Wednesday morning we film. Then we go to lunch with the team. Then Then we go to lunch with the team. Then Then we go to lunch with the team. Then we go to poolside at my house. So we we go to poolside at my house. So we we go to poolside at my house. So we have a day of the week where we are have a day of the week where we are have a day of the week where we are going to hang out with our friends and going to hang out with our friends and going to hang out with our friends and all the spouses and all the kids are all the spouses and all the kids are all the spouses and all the kids are welcome to come and then once a year we welcome to come and then once a year we welcome to come and then once a year we fly to a destination and we have our fly to a destination and we have our fly to a destination and we have our retreat. And so when our kids are young retreat. And so when our kids are young retreat. And so when our kids are young we are going to do everything that we we are going to do everything that we we are going to do everything that we can cuz look here's the thing if we can cuz look here's the thing if we can cuz look here's the thing if we didn't do it at work it just wouldn't didn't do it at work it just wouldn't didn't do it at work it just wouldn't happen because there are too many kids happen because there are too many kids happen because there are too many kids and there are too many responsibilities and there are too many responsibilities and there are too many responsibilities going back to those earlier and this is going back to those earlier and this is going back to those earlier and this is again again again into the the of our company and this into the the of our company and this into the the of our company and this affects our up into the right indefinite affects our up into the right indefinite affects our up into the right indefinite like goals and it's just you have to like goals and it's just you have to like goals and it's just you have to sacrifice some of that.

sacrifice some of that. sacrifice some of that. Say hey, we're not we're just not going Say hey, we're not we're just not going Say hey, we're not we're just not going to chase that much growth. Why? Well, to chase that much growth. Why? Well, to chase that much growth. Why? Well, because we want to have these things as because we want to have these things as because we want to have these things as well. And so it comes to compromise and well. And so it comes to compromise and well. And so it comes to compromise and balance and just final things that we balance and just final things that we balance and just final things that we don't have in common. Sports. don't have in common. Sports. don't have in common. Sports. In some ways. So we both love sports. In some ways. So we both love sports. In some ways. So we both love sports. And we share a love of baseball. One of And we share a love of baseball. One of And we share a love of baseball. One of the first outings that we ever did the first outings that we ever did the first outings that we ever did together at a Jays game. together at a Jays game. together at a Jays game. But Alex is kind of a hockey guy first But Alex is kind of a hockey guy first But Alex is kind of a hockey guy first also loves, you know, golf. Yeah. also loves, you know, golf. Yeah. also loves, you know, golf. Yeah. Tennis. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to get into Tennis. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to get into Tennis. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to get into tennis. Yeah. tennis. Yeah. tennis. Yeah. Alcaraz, my guy. In your face. Yeah, Alcaraz, my guy. In your face. Yeah, Alcaraz, my guy. In your face. Yeah, I'll take it. But I'm more of a I'll take it. But I'm more of a I'll take it. But I'm more of a basketball and football guy. basketball and football guy. basketball and football guy. Sure. So sometimes like, you know, Sure. So sometimes like, you know, Sure. So sometimes like, you know, he's he's hockey first and I'm he's he's hockey first and I'm he's he's hockey first and I'm basketball first. So we don't share basketball first. So we don't share basketball first. So we don't share those same interests. Though when the those same interests. Though when the those same interests. Though when the Raptors won the title, something that Raptors won the title, something that Raptors won the title, something that his his his team obviously could never do. He was team obviously could never do. He was team obviously could never do. He was there to support me and every playoff there to support me and every playoff there to support me and every playoff time because I am not an injured Leafs time because I am not an injured Leafs time because I am not an injured Leafs fan, I show up and go we're ready to fan, I show up and go we're ready to fan, I show up and go we're ready to break the curse. break the curse. break the curse. Hey, we're Toronto first people, right? Hey, we're Toronto first people, right? Hey, we're Toronto first people, right? Right? All right, we're fans of the Right? All right, we're fans of the Right? All right, we're fans of the Jays, I'm a fan of the Leafs, you're a Jays, I'm a fan of the Leafs, you're a Jays, I'm a fan of the Leafs, you're a fan of the Raptors. We're Toronto first fan of the Raptors. We're Toronto first fan of the Raptors. We're Toronto first people. Absolutely. And if we ever get a people. Absolutely. And if we ever get a people. Absolutely. And if we ever get a football team football team football team but we don't. but we don't. but we don't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go Nighters. Yeah. Go Nighters. Yeah. Go Nighters. Yeah. Um not in common.

Um not in common. Um not in common. Alex is more indie music, I'm more Alex is more indie music, I'm more Alex is more indie music, I'm more hip-hop. Now we both appreciate all hip-hop. Now we both appreciate all hip-hop. Now we both appreciate all types of music. So when we travel types of music. So when we travel types of music. So when we travel together we'll make a shared playlist. together we'll make a shared playlist. together we'll make a shared playlist. He'll have had his interests, I'll add He'll have had his interests, I'll add He'll have had his interests, I'll add mine. And so a lot of the times the mine. And so a lot of the times the mine. And so a lot of the times the stuff that I do like that's outside of stuff that I do like that's outside of stuff that I do like that's outside of my traditional music sphere is because my traditional music sphere is because my traditional music sphere is because Alex introduced me to them. Yeah, and I Alex introduced me to them. Yeah, and I Alex introduced me to them. Yeah, and I and I do I've grown out of a hip-hop um and I do I've grown out of a hip-hop um and I do I've grown out of a hip-hop um season, but I mean season, but I mean season, but I mean The Utah trip. Scorpion dropped. Yeah, The Utah trip. Scorpion dropped. Yeah, The Utah trip. Scorpion dropped. Yeah, like foundationally like as a as a like foundationally like as a as a like foundationally like as a as a teenager the music I was listening to teenager the music I was listening to teenager the music I was listening to was predominantly hip-hop. So when we was predominantly hip-hop. So when we was predominantly hip-hop. So when we get into hip-hop discussions or enjoying get into hip-hop discussions or enjoying get into hip-hop discussions or enjoying that music on a trip, I'm I'm right that music on a trip, I'm I'm right that music on a trip, I'm I'm right there with you. And then finally, you there with you. And then finally, you there with you. And then finally, you know, Alex you can't reach him. He's know, Alex you can't reach him. He's know, Alex you can't reach him. He's unreachable. unreachable. unreachable. I am always reachable. Yes, we've I am always reachable. Yes, we've I am always reachable. Yes, we've alluded to that already. Yeah, and I I alluded to that already. Yeah, and I I alluded to that already. Yeah, and I I won't apologize for it. Sometimes I have won't apologize for it. Sometimes I have won't apologize for it. Sometimes I have to apologize to certain people for it, to apologize to certain people for it, to apologize to certain people for it, depending on the circumstance. Like depending on the circumstance. Like depending on the circumstance. Like Rebecca called me in the middle of this Rebecca called me in the middle of this Rebecca called me in the middle of this show and I had to ignore that phone call show and I had to ignore that phone call show and I had to ignore that phone call and so we'll see what kind of text away and so we'll see what kind of text away and so we'll see what kind of text away me. I might have to offer an apology, me. I might have to offer an apology, me. I might have to offer an apology, but I'm at work. So maybe you'll have to but I'm at work. So maybe you'll have to but I'm at work. So maybe you'll have to speak to her for me. Well, we'll go to speak to her for me. Well, we'll go to speak to her for me. Well, we'll go to Bali and we'll make up for it.

Bali and we'll make up for it. Bali and we'll make up for it. And thanks so much for listening. As And thanks so much for listening. As And thanks so much for listening. As always, send in your questions to be always, send in your questions to be always, send in your questions to be answered on a future show. Look forward answered on a future show. Look forward answered on a future show. Look forward to the announcement of the winners of to the announcement of the winners of to the announcement of the winners of the contest. If you've not yet entered, the contest. If you've not yet entered, the contest. If you've not yet entered, which I didn't mention off the top, which I didn't mention off the top, which I didn't mention off the top, subscribe to the show, take a screenshot subscribe to the show, take a screenshot subscribe to the show, take a screenshot of your subscription on YouTube, send us of your subscription on YouTube, send us of your subscription on YouTube, send us a text 1-800-485-3139 a text 1-800-485-3139 a text 1-800-485-3139 with a screenshot of that subscription with a screenshot of that subscription with a screenshot of that subscription with your question for the show. Or with your question for the show. Or with your question for the show. Or alternatively, if you can't send the alternatively, if you can't send the alternatively, if you can't send the text, send an email text, send an email text, send an email [email protected]. [email protected]. [email protected]. That will secure your entry even though That will secure your entry even though That will secure your entry even though I won't get that to you. If you win, I won't get that to you. If you win, I won't get that to you. If you win, you'll hear it on next week's show. you'll hear it on next week's show. you'll hear it on next week's show. We'll talk to you then. If you want your question answered on a If you want your question answered on a future episode of the Pro Church Tools future episode of the Pro Church Tools future episode of the Pro Church Tools Show, send us a text to 1-800-485-3139. New episodes of the Pro Church Tools New episodes of the Pro Church Tools Show drop every Wednesday, so subscribe Show drop every Wednesday, so subscribe Show drop every Wednesday, so subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And or wherever you get your podcasts. And or wherever you get your podcasts. And thanks as always for your time, thanks as always for your time, thanks as always for your time, attention, and trust. We'll talk soon.