The State Of Church Social Media In 2026

Churches have never been better at Churches have never been better at social media. More churches are social media. More churches are social media. More churches are publishing more content on more publishing more content on more publishing more content on more platforms than ever [music] before. So platforms than ever [music] before. So platforms than ever [music] before. So then why does it feel like social media then why does it feel like social media then why does it feel like social media is becoming harder? Today we're breaking is becoming harder? Today we're breaking is becoming harder? Today we're breaking down the state of church social media in down the state of church social media in down the state of church social media in 2026 [music] and what the latest 2026 [music] and what the latest 2026 [music] and what the latest reporting means for you and your church reporting means for you and your church reporting means for you and your church online. Let's dive in. online. Let's dive in. online. Let's dive in. >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. Famously we call always by my co-host. Famously we call always by my co-host. Famously we call him pastor Pinterest. It's Alexander him pastor Pinterest. It's Alexander him pastor Pinterest. It's Alexander Mills. Mills. Mills. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Pinterest among one of the many social >> Pinterest among one of the many social >> Pinterest among one of the many social platforms that we'll be discussing platforms that we'll be discussing platforms that we'll be discussing today. Spoiler Pinterest will not be today. Spoiler Pinterest will not be today. Spoiler Pinterest will not be discussed. [laughter] discussed. [laughter] discussed. [laughter] >> They seem to have cleaned up their AI >> They seem to have cleaned up their AI >> They seem to have cleaned up their AI problem though. problem though. problem though. >> They had an AI problem. >> They had an AI problem. >> They had an AI problem. >> Yeah. There was a mass exodus from >> Yeah. There was a mass exodus from >> Yeah. There was a mass exodus from Pinterest cuz you know all the all the Pinterest cuz you know all the all the Pinterest cuz you know all the all the ladies that are into interior design and ladies that are into interior design and ladies that are into interior design and whatnot, they live on Pinterest and then whatnot, they live on Pinterest and then whatnot, they live on Pinterest and then the AI boom happens and everything on the AI boom happens and everything on the AI boom happens and everything on Pinterest was AI generated. They're like Pinterest was AI generated. They're like Pinterest was AI generated. They're like I got to get out of here. But Pinterest I got to get out of here. But Pinterest I got to get out of here. But Pinterest they solved that. Well, thankfully uh AI they solved that. Well, thankfully uh AI they solved that. Well, thankfully uh AI has not affected social media in any has not affected social media in any has not affected social media in any other way [laughter] and will be largely other way [laughter] and will be largely other way [laughter] and will be largely unmentioned from this podcast. Let's unmentioned from this podcast. Let's unmentioned from this podcast. Let's start with uh big trend number one, start with uh big trend number one, start with uh big trend number one, which is that we have reached peak which is that we have reached peak which is that we have reached peak content. Now, we've discussed this content. Now, we've discussed this content. Now, we've discussed this previously because Adami two summers previously because Adami two summers previously because Adami two summers ago, three summers ago, said that supply ago, three summers ago, said that supply ago, three summers ago, said that supply on Instagram was outpacing demand on on Instagram was outpacing demand on on Instagram was outpacing demand on Instagram, but we've also now reached Instagram, but we've also now reached Instagram, but we've also now reached that on Tik Tok. Now, I'm not saying it that on Tik Tok. Now, I'm not saying it that on Tik Tok. Now, I'm not saying it hadn't been true on Tik Tok prior to hadn't been true on Tik Tok prior to hadn't been true on Tik Tok prior to them. But let's assume for a moment them. But let's assume for a moment them. But let's assume for a moment >> that millennials, our supply had >> that millennials, our supply had >> that millennials, our supply had outpaced demand on Instagram. And then outpaced demand on Instagram. And then outpaced demand on Instagram. And then there was a lagging reality for that to

there was a lagging reality for that to there was a lagging reality for that to be true with Gen Z also because they be true with Gen Z also because they be true with Gen Z also because they just they have a little more time on just they have a little more time on just they have a little more time on their phones. But even Gen Z now cannot their phones. But even Gen Z now cannot their phones. But even Gen Z now cannot spend enough time. This comes from spend enough time. This comes from spend enough time. This comes from Metricool and their 2026 Tik Tok study. Metricool and their 2026 Tik Tok study. Metricool and their 2026 Tik Tok study. And all of these citations will be And all of these citations will be And all of these citations will be linked in the description. Tik Tok linked in the description. Tik Tok linked in the description. Tik Tok publishing increased dramatically publishing increased dramatically publishing increased dramatically year-over-year with 72% more videos and year-over-year with 72% more videos and year-over-year with 72% more videos and nearly 140% more image posts. nearly 140% more image posts. nearly 140% more image posts. >> So 70% more videos, 150% almost more >> So 70% more videos, 150% almost more >> So 70% more videos, 150% almost more carousels or still posts, carousels or still posts, carousels or still posts, intensifying competition for the same intensifying competition for the same intensifying competition for the same user attention. That's fine if more user attention. That's fine if more user attention. That's fine if more people are on the platform. Spoiler people are on the platform. Spoiler people are on the platform. Spoiler alert, they're not because average views alert, they're not because average views alert, they're not because average views fell 31%, reach fell 29%, interactions fell 31%, reach fell 29%, interactions fell 31%, reach fell 29%, interactions fell 31%. So even if more people were on fell 31%. So even if more people were on fell 31%. So even if more people were on the platform, that did not keep up with the platform, that did not keep up with the platform, that did not keep up with the pace of publishing. the pace of publishing. the pace of publishing. >> Same is true for Instagram as well. >> Same is true for Instagram as well. >> Same is true for Instagram as well. Reals reach dropped 35%. Basically, what Reals reach dropped 35%. Basically, what Reals reach dropped 35%. Basically, what we have then is more content we have then is more content we have then is more content making a bid for the same amount of making a bid for the same amount of making a bid for the same amount of attention. Now, what happens in an attention. Now, what happens in an attention. Now, what happens in an environment where there are more bids environment where there are more bids environment where there are more bids for the same thing? The cost goes up.

for the same thing? The cost goes up. for the same thing? The cost goes up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And this is the reality that if you're >> And this is the reality that if you're >> And this is the reality that if you're publishing creating content for social publishing creating content for social publishing creating content for social on behalf of your church, you have on behalf of your church, you have on behalf of your church, you have certainly experienced. certainly experienced. certainly experienced. >> And we've been having this conversation >> And we've been having this conversation >> And we've been having this conversation all year in the office because we've all year in the office because we've all year in the office because we've been publishing content on social media been publishing content on social media been publishing content on social media and we have a, you know, relatively and we have a, you know, relatively and we have a, you know, relatively large and engaged audience historically large and engaged audience historically large and engaged audience historically and that's been true for more than a and that's been true for more than a and that's been true for more than a decade. And we're like, man, the amount decade. And we're like, man, the amount decade. And we're like, man, the amount of effort we're putting into creating a of effort we're putting into creating a of effort we're putting into creating a piece of content relative to its results piece of content relative to its results piece of content relative to its results compared to what we're used to and the compared to what we're used to and the compared to what we're used to and the baseline that we have come to expect has baseline that we have come to expect has baseline that we have come to expect has dramatically changed. dramatically changed. dramatically changed. >> And I think one of the big implications >> And I think one of the big implications >> And I think one of the big implications of this, aside from just that feeling of this, aside from just that feeling of this, aside from just that feeling that we probably all know, is that in an that we probably all know, is that in an that we probably all know, is that in an environment where there is more supply environment where there is more supply environment where there is more supply than there is demand, even great stuff than there is demand, even great stuff than there is demand, even great stuff will fail. And this is the part that in will fail. And this is the part that in will fail. And this is the part that in my conversations with pastors has my conversations with pastors has my conversations with pastors has usually kind of created that light bulb usually kind of created that light bulb usually kind of created that light bulb moment, at least based in my moment, at least based in my moment, at least based in my interactions, which is like quality is interactions, which is like quality is interactions, which is like quality is no longer enough. You can make something no longer enough. You can make something no longer enough. You can make something that's awesome, but if there's just more that's awesome, but if there's just more that's awesome, but if there's just more supply than demand, that means that supply than demand, that means that supply than demand, that means that there are lots of people that are making there are lots of people that are making there are lots of people that are making awesome things, but there's just not awesome things, but there's just not awesome things, but there's just not enough people to to consume it. So, what enough people to to consume it. So, what enough people to to consume it. So, what does that mean then for the church who does that mean then for the church who does that mean then for the church who has listened to this show or who has has listened to this show or who has has listened to this show or who has really maybe they they went out on a really maybe they they went out on a really maybe they they went out on a limb and they hired like a a social limb and they hired like a a social limb and they hired like a a social media person or like an intern. They media person or like an intern. They media person or like an intern. They they gave them the reigns and they're they gave them the reigns and they're they gave them the reigns and they're making better quality content than they making better quality content than they making better quality content than they ever have. What does that mean for them ever have. What does that mean for them ever have. What does that mean for them today? How can they break through and today? How can they break through and today? How can they break through and get that seen? um maybe comparatively to get that seen? um maybe comparatively to get that seen? um maybe comparatively to 2 3 5 years ago in a discovery era where

2 3 5 years ago in a discovery era where 2 3 5 years ago in a discovery era where you could just throw anything out there you could just throw anything out there you could just throw anything out there and it really had a chance a good chance and it really had a chance a good chance and it really had a chance a good chance of of being seen by a lot of people. I of of being seen by a lot of people. I of of being seen by a lot of people. I have so many thoughts. Let me see if I have so many thoughts. Let me see if I have so many thoughts. Let me see if I can remember all of them. The first can remember all of them. The first can remember all of them. The first would be recalibrating your would be recalibrating your would be recalibrating your expectations. Okay, if I was used to a expectations. Okay, if I was used to a expectations. Okay, if I was used to a previous environment, this is the new previous environment, this is the new previous environment, this is the new one. one. one. >> I am not going to let that feel like an >> I am not going to let that feel like an >> I am not going to let that feel like an evaluation of my efforts per se. Okay, I evaluation of my efforts per se. Okay, I evaluation of my efforts per se. Okay, I am open to new things. Second, rallying am open to new things. Second, rallying am open to new things. Second, rallying around a different metric and this is around a different metric and this is around a different metric and this is the one that we have talked about over the one that we have talked about over the one that we have talked about over the past year which is views per day. the past year which is views per day. the past year which is views per day. >> There is still a direct correlation >> There is still a direct correlation >> There is still a direct correlation between how much you publish and the between how much you publish and the between how much you publish and the views. views. views. >> That's encouraging because that is >> That's encouraging because that is >> That's encouraging because that is something that you can hold on to and something that you can hold on to and something that you can hold on to and say if we can double our output, if we say if we can double our output, if we say if we can double our output, if we can increase output by 20%. We should can increase output by 20%. We should can increase output by 20%. We should expect there to be correlation with the expect there to be correlation with the expect there to be correlation with the number of people that are seeing our number of people that are seeing our number of people that are seeing our content, which means the number of content, which means the number of content, which means the number of people that are being people that are being people that are being >> uh exposed to the message of Jesus and >> uh exposed to the message of Jesus and >> uh exposed to the message of Jesus and introduced to our church. Okay, we're introduced to our church. Okay, we're introduced to our church. Okay, we're going to rally around that. going to rally around that. going to rally around that. >> The third would be >> The third would be >> The third would be >> making sure that all of your creative >> making sure that all of your creative >> making sure that all of your creative efforts are being repurposed. We were on efforts are being repurposed. We were on efforts are being repurposed. We were on site at a church just last week in site at a church just last week in site at a church just last week in Detroit filming an episode of Church Detroit filming an episode of Church Detroit filming an episode of Church Chaos. And in that episode, I doubt this Chaos. And in that episode, I doubt this Chaos. And in that episode, I doubt this makes the episode, so it's worth talking makes the episode, so it's worth talking makes the episode, so it's worth talking about here.

about here. about here. >> We were discussing >> We were discussing >> We were discussing Christmas and its promotion. And we Christmas and its promotion. And we Christmas and its promotion. And we talked about what they did last year for talked about what they did last year for talked about what they did last year for Christmas. And they had said that they Christmas. And they had said that they Christmas. And they had said that they had made this creative piece and they had made this creative piece and they had made this creative piece and they showed it on Sunday morning. And I said, showed it on Sunday morning. And I said, showed it on Sunday morning. And I said, "Okay, great. "Okay, great. "Okay, great. >> How many Sundays did you show it?" And >> How many Sundays did you show it?" And >> How many Sundays did you show it?" And they're like, "Well, we showed it on one they're like, "Well, we showed it on one they're like, "Well, we showed it on one Sunday." And I said, "Okay, that makes Sunday." And I said, "Okay, that makes Sunday." And I said, "Okay, that makes sense. Pretty typical. We know that the sense. Pretty typical. We know that the sense. Pretty typical. We know that the average person attends about 40% of average person attends about 40% of average person attends about 40% of weekends. So even if your church is weekends. So even if your church is weekends. So even if your church is bucking against that trend, every Sunday bucking against that trend, every Sunday bucking against that trend, every Sunday attendance is becoming increasingly attendance is becoming increasingly attendance is becoming increasingly rare. Yeah. rare. Yeah. rare. Yeah. >> So it would be reasonable to show that >> So it would be reasonable to show that >> So it would be reasonable to show that in more than one Sunday, but even if you in more than one Sunday, but even if you in more than one Sunday, but even if you didn't want to, didn't want to, didn't want to, >> I asked them, "Where else did you use >> I asked them, "Where else did you use >> I asked them, "Where else did you use this creative content?" Cuz they had this creative content?" Cuz they had this creative content?" Cuz they had made this awesome video. And they said, made this awesome video. And they said, made this awesome video. And they said, "Well, we didn't use it anywhere." And I "Well, we didn't use it anywhere." And I "Well, we didn't use it anywhere." And I was like, "Well, make sure that's going was like, "Well, make sure that's going was like, "Well, make sure that's going out on social. I would use that as the out on social. I would use that as the out on social. I would use that as the subject of the email that week." Yeah. subject of the email that week." Yeah. subject of the email that week." Yeah. >> I would use that if you send out texts. >> I would use that if you send out texts. >> I would use that if you send out texts. I would say if you've made this creative I would say if you've made this creative I would say if you've made this creative piece and invested in it, make sure that piece and invested in it, make sure that piece and invested in it, make sure that you're putting it on every single you're putting it on every single you're putting it on every single channel. Yeah. So, the inverse is true channel. Yeah. So, the inverse is true channel. Yeah. So, the inverse is true for social. If you're doing creative for social. If you're doing creative for social. If you're doing creative work on social, let's say you're making work on social, let's say you're making work on social, let's say you're making like a fun post where you mic up a like a fun post where you mic up a like a fun post where you mic up a volunteer, right? And you show what it's volunteer, right? And you show what it's volunteer, right? And you show what it's like to be a greeter at your church. Are like to be a greeter at your church. Are like to be a greeter at your church. Are you showing that in Sunday from stage in you showing that in Sunday from stage in you showing that in Sunday from stage in service? Is that being sent out via service? Is that being sent out via service? Is that being sent out via email? Is that going out via text? If we email? Is that going out via text? If we email? Is that going out via text? If we can no longer rely on distribution on can no longer rely on distribution on can no longer rely on distribution on these singular platforms, these singular platforms, these singular platforms, >> how can we make sure that we're >> how can we make sure that we're >> how can we make sure that we're publishing on all the platforms? Is that publishing on all the platforms? Is that publishing on all the platforms? Is that also going out on YouTube shorts, on also going out on YouTube shorts, on also going out on YouTube shorts, on Facebook, on Tik Tok? And then outside Facebook, on Tik Tok? And then outside Facebook, on Tik Tok? And then outside of social, how can this creative idea of social, how can this creative idea of social, how can this creative idea extend beyond social media?

extend beyond social media? extend beyond social media? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I want you to think about Dave Ramsey. >> I want you to think about Dave Ramsey. >> I want you to think about Dave Ramsey. He's the best example of this. The man He's the best example of this. The man He's the best example of this. The man came up with the seven baby steps and came up with the seven baby steps and came up with the seven baby steps and then never said anything new for a then never said anything new for a then never said anything new for a hundred years. hundred years. hundred years. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And people were like, I'm confident. I >> And people were like, I'm confident. I >> And people were like, I'm confident. I have found the outlier. I have been have found the outlier. I have been have found the outlier. I have been gifted $1 billion. I would like to put gifted $1 billion. I would like to put gifted $1 billion. I would like to put it I would like to put $1,000 on a it I would like to put $1,000 on a it I would like to put $1,000 on a credit card because if I [laughter] do, credit card because if I [laughter] do, credit card because if I [laughter] do, I get a guaranteed free flight and I I get a guaranteed free flight and I I get a guaranteed free flight and I will pay it off in 30 seconds. No credit will pay it off in 30 seconds. No credit will pay it off in 30 seconds. No credit cards. [laughter] cards. [laughter] cards. [laughter] Unflinchingly rigid. And you know what? Unflinchingly rigid. And you know what? Unflinchingly rigid. And you know what? It's that rigidity that has created the It's that rigidity that has created the It's that rigidity that has created the narrative and the brand of Dave Ramsey narrative and the brand of Dave Ramsey narrative and the brand of Dave Ramsey because it is simple and accessible in because it is simple and accessible in because it is simple and accessible in part because of that rigidity. But the part because of that rigidity. But the part because of that rigidity. But the idea is is that he's been saying the idea is is that he's been saying the idea is is that he's been saying the same thing forever. Don't fall for the same thing forever. Don't fall for the same thing forever. Don't fall for the trap and the lie that once you've trap and the lie that once you've trap and the lie that once you've created something, it can never be said created something, it can never be said created something, it can never be said again or it can never be published again or it can never be published again or it can never be published elsewhere. elsewhere. elsewhere. >> Yeah. I just want to circle back on one >> Yeah. I just want to circle back on one >> Yeah. I just want to circle back on one thing before we move on to the next thing before we move on to the next thing before we move on to the next insight. You mentioned views per day. insight. You mentioned views per day. insight. You mentioned views per day. Can you define that and and remind us Can you define that and and remind us Can you define that and and remind us how to get to that metric? how to get to that metric? how to get to that metric? >> Absolutely. So, every platform will tell >> Absolutely. So, every platform will tell >> Absolutely. So, every platform will tell you how many impressions or views that you how many impressions or views that you how many impressions or views that you have accumulated on your account you have accumulated on your account you have accumulated on your account over the previous whatever number of over the previous whatever number of over the previous whatever number of days. So, I'm in the habit of on the days. So, I'm in the habit of on the days. So, I'm in the habit of on the first of the month going over the first of the month going over the first of the month going over the previous 30 or 31 or 28 days and previous 30 or 31 or 28 days and previous 30 or 31 or 28 days and looking, okay, you achieved 100,000 looking, okay, you achieved 100,000 looking, okay, you achieved 100,000 views. Okay, I'm going to divide that by views. Okay, I'm going to divide that by views. Okay, I'm going to divide that by 28 or 30 or 31. This is how many views 28 or 30 or 31. This is how many views 28 or 30 or 31. This is how many views per day I got. Then I'm going to look at per day I got. Then I'm going to look at per day I got. Then I'm going to look at how many posts that I published.

how many posts that I published. how many posts that I published. >> And then I just have those numbers. And >> And then I just have those numbers. And >> And then I just have those numbers. And what that means is I can look and I can what that means is I can look and I can what that means is I can look and I can find the correlation between how much find the correlation between how much find the correlation between how much content I'm publishing and how many content I'm publishing and how many content I'm publishing and how many views per day that I'm receiving. views per day that I'm receiving. views per day that I'm receiving. Because if your views per day are going Because if your views per day are going Because if your views per day are going down, but we know that there's a down, but we know that there's a down, but we know that there's a correlation between volume and correlation between volume and correlation between volume and distribution, then that's the first distribution, then that's the first distribution, then that's the first thing that I want to look at. Then I thing that I want to look at. Then I thing that I want to look at. Then I could look at, okay, my number of posts could look at, okay, my number of posts could look at, okay, my number of posts has been the same, but my views have has been the same, but my views have has been the same, but my views have been going down. Okay. Is that been going down. Okay. Is that been going down. Okay. Is that reflective of we're coming out of reflective of we're coming out of reflective of we're coming out of summertime. Generally, people are on summertime. Generally, people are on summertime. Generally, people are on their phones a little bit less in the their phones a little bit less in the their phones a little bit less in the summer. We see it in these podcast summer. We see it in these podcast summer. We see it in these podcast views. We see it on social. views. We see it on social. views. We see it on social. >> It's true in church world that everyone >> It's true in church world that everyone >> It's true in church world that everyone takes their vacation in summer because takes their vacation in summer because takes their vacation in summer because it's kind of the lull on the church it's kind of the lull on the church it's kind of the lull on the church calendar. Even though we have, you know, calendar. Even though we have, you know, calendar. Even though we have, you know, okay, fall kickoff's coming off. We have okay, fall kickoff's coming off. We have okay, fall kickoff's coming off. We have VBS eight weeks of the year, whatever it VBS eight weeks of the year, whatever it VBS eight weeks of the year, whatever it might be. might be. might be. >> But you probably see this in your >> But you probably see this in your >> But you probably see this in your church. If you're not in a warm climate, church. If you're not in a warm climate, church. If you're not in a warm climate, summer comes around and suddenly the summer comes around and suddenly the summer comes around and suddenly the attendance is a little bit more sparse attendance is a little bit more sparse attendance is a little bit more sparse because everyone's enjoying their time because everyone's enjoying their time because everyone's enjoying their time off in Michigan, let's say, or wherever off in Michigan, let's say, or wherever off in Michigan, let's say, or wherever it might be. And so there are some it might be. And so there are some it might be. And so there are some seasonal things to consider, but those seasonal things to consider, but those seasonal things to consider, but those two numbers are really the only reliable two numbers are really the only reliable two numbers are really the only reliable things, things, things, >> views per day and then like posts per >> views per day and then like posts per >> views per day and then like posts per month and cross referencing those to month and cross referencing those to month and cross referencing those to just give you some data because what just give you some data because what just give you some data because what we've gone off historically is I'm we've gone off historically is I'm we've gone off historically is I'm expecting this many likes or I'm used to expecting this many likes or I'm used to expecting this many likes or I'm used to seeing this many comments. I'm used to seeing this many comments. I'm used to seeing this many comments. I'm used to seeing this much engagement.

seeing this much engagement. seeing this much engagement. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> Those things aren't reliable anymore. >> Those things aren't reliable anymore. >> Those things aren't reliable anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And they might not be reliable >> And they might not be reliable >> And they might not be reliable in no way due to what you made. in no way due to what you made. in no way due to what you made. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, if that's not reliable, what are we >> So, if that's not reliable, what are we >> So, if that's not reliable, what are we looking at? And this is meant to stand looking at? And this is meant to stand looking at? And this is meant to stand in the gap. in the gap. in the gap. >> Cool. [snorts] >> Cool. [snorts] >> Cool. [snorts] >> Big idea number two, short form is for >> Big idea number two, short form is for >> Big idea number two, short form is for discovery and not depth. So, now let's discovery and not depth. So, now let's discovery and not depth. So, now let's get into some YouTube data. Again, this get into some YouTube data. Again, this get into some YouTube data. Again, this is from Metriccool, their 2026 YouTube is from Metriccool, their 2026 YouTube is from Metriccool, their 2026 YouTube study, and they found that YouTube study, and they found that YouTube study, and they found that YouTube shorts views increased 127%. Great. But shorts views increased 127%. Great. But shorts views increased 127%. Great. But watch time per short fell sharply. Long- watch time per short fell sharply. Long- watch time per short fell sharply. Long- form video views increased 76%. form video views increased 76%. form video views increased 76%. But engagement also declined there. But engagement also declined there. But engagement also declined there. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's also interesting, the shorts feed >> It's also interesting, the shorts feed >> It's also interesting, the shorts feed generated 61% of YouTube views. We've generated 61% of YouTube views. We've generated 61% of YouTube views. We've talked about this this new era of social talked about this this new era of social talked about this this new era of social media departing the discovery algorithm media departing the discovery algorithm media departing the discovery algorithm age and kind of entering in the age and kind of entering in the age and kind of entering in the syndication era where social media is syndication era where social media is syndication era where social media is TV. TV. TV. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> When you think about depth on social >> When you think about depth on social >> When you think about depth on social media, what do you think about? You media, what do you think about? You media, what do you think about? You think about personal connection. You think about personal connection. You think about personal connection. You would think about engagement where you would think about engagement where you would think about engagement where you do something and someone else responds do something and someone else responds do something and someone else responds with a comment or a like or a share.

with a comment or a like or a share. with a comment or a like or a share. Social media has moved into the world of Social media has moved into the world of Social media has moved into the world of TV and this is apppropo for YouTube and TV and this is apppropo for YouTube and TV and this is apppropo for YouTube and the context here because YouTube's view the context here because YouTube's view the context here because YouTube's view uh viewership on televisions has uh viewership on televisions has uh viewership on televisions has increased dramatically as well and so increased dramatically as well and so increased dramatically as well and so this also requires recalibration this also requires recalibration this also requires recalibration because you're going to see fewer because you're going to see fewer because you're going to see fewer comments, you're going to see fewer comments, you're going to see fewer comments, you're going to see fewer likes, you're going to see fewer likes, you're going to see fewer likes, you're going to see fewer response. We did a contest where we gave response. We did a contest where we gave response. We did a contest where we gave away a full year of social sermons where away a full year of social sermons where away a full year of social sermons where we were like, "Hey, we're going to do we were like, "Hey, we're going to do we were like, "Hey, we're going to do your social for your church for a full your social for your church for a full your social for your church for a full year for free." We did that last year in year for free." We did that last year in year for free." We did that last year in September. September. September. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we did it this year in September. >> And we did it this year in September. >> And we did it this year in September. And I have the exact same data and the And I have the exact same data and the And I have the exact same data and the exact same posts. I ran the same post. exact same posts. I ran the same post. exact same posts. I ran the same post. It's If you saw it, you'll be like, "Oh, It's If you saw it, you'll be like, "Oh, It's If you saw it, you'll be like, "Oh, Brady's hair look kind of different." Brady's hair look kind of different." Brady's hair look kind of different." Cuz it's the same post. I literally went Cuz it's the same post. I literally went Cuz it's the same post. I literally went to the camera roll and just redid it. to the camera roll and just redid it. to the camera roll and just redid it. and Instagram stories. I have the and Instagram stories. I have the and Instagram stories. I have the numbers. It got like fewer views. numbers. It got like fewer views. numbers. It got like fewer views. Instead of getting like 30,000 views, it Instead of getting like 30,000 views, it Instead of getting like 30,000 views, it got like 20,000 got like 20,000 got like 20,000 >> and there was less response. That was >> and there was less response. That was >> and there was less response. That was even below that.

even below that. even below that. My audience numbers have increased, My audience numbers have increased, My audience numbers have increased, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I did the identical post a year later. >> I did the identical post a year later. >> I did the identical post a year later. So, either So, either So, either people just are sick of me people just are sick of me people just are sick of me >> or [snorts] there's a changing >> or [snorts] there's a changing >> or [snorts] there's a changing environment or some combination of the environment or some combination of the environment or some combination of the two. two. two. >> And I'm okay and open to the idea that >> And I'm okay and open to the idea that >> And I'm okay and open to the idea that people are a little sick of me. I've people are a little sick of me. I've people are a little sick of me. I've been I'm not as old as Dave Ramsey, but been I'm not as old as Dave Ramsey, but been I'm not as old as Dave Ramsey, but it's been 15 years like stop the scroll. it's been 15 years like stop the scroll. it's been 15 years like stop the scroll. It's like we heard it, man. So maybe It's like we heard it, man. So maybe It's like we heard it, man. So maybe there's, you know, 20% of that, but that there's, you know, 20% of that, but that there's, you know, 20% of that, but that doesn't account for the change overall. doesn't account for the change overall. doesn't account for the change overall. There's just kind of this fatigue. There's just kind of this fatigue. There's just kind of this fatigue. >> Yeah, we've talked about that idea >> Yeah, we've talked about that idea >> Yeah, we've talked about that idea before about social media evolving into before about social media evolving into before about social media evolving into entertainment and more akin to entertainment and more akin to entertainment and more akin to television than uh a social area where television than uh a social area where television than uh a social area where you get to like converse and collaborate you get to like converse and collaborate you get to like converse and collaborate with people. So, if we're learning that with people. So, if we're learning that with people. So, if we're learning that short form video is mainly for discovery short form video is mainly for discovery short form video is mainly for discovery and not for depth, what do we say to the and not for depth, what do we say to the and not for depth, what do we say to the church who is continuing to post their church who is continuing to post their church who is continuing to post their sermon reels as short form videos sermon reels as short form videos sermon reels as short form videos because that's such a successful because that's such a successful because that's such a successful strategy? Like, if if we acknowledge strategy? Like, if if we acknowledge strategy? Like, if if we acknowledge that that's true, you know, the first that that's true, you know, the first that that's true, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is, well, each thing that comes to mind is, well, each thing that comes to mind is, well, each of your sermon reels ought to it's of your sermon reels ought to it's of your sermon reels ought to it's imperative that it has a next step imperative that it has a next step imperative that it has a next step directing someone maybe to something directing someone maybe to something directing someone maybe to something that that is a little bit deeper, maybe that that is a little bit deeper, maybe that that is a little bit deeper, maybe the full sermon or or something else.

the full sermon or or something else. the full sermon or or something else. But do you have any other suggestions But do you have any other suggestions But do you have any other suggestions for these short form videos? Like how to for these short form videos? Like how to for these short form videos? Like how to lead people into deeper waters if lead people into deeper waters if lead people into deeper waters if they're just if if the short form piece they're just if if the short form piece they're just if if the short form piece itself is more for discovery or you know itself is more for discovery or you know itself is more for discovery or you know in the worst case just entertainment. in the worst case just entertainment. in the worst case just entertainment. Well, this kind of gets to one of the Well, this kind of gets to one of the Well, this kind of gets to one of the further down big ideas and we'll skip further down big ideas and we'll skip further down big ideas and we'll skip one to come back to another one, but one to come back to another one, but one to come back to another one, but social media as search and we'll start social media as search and we'll start social media as search and we'll start again with Gen Z. We like to focus on again with Gen Z. We like to focus on again with Gen Z. We like to focus on the generation that is in that kind of the generation that is in that kind of the generation that is in that kind of like late teenager and Jenz is beyond like late teenager and Jenz is beyond like late teenager and Jenz is beyond that like in their 20s that like in their 20s that like in their 20s >> because when we talk about like the >> because when we talk about like the >> because when we talk about like the creative world, fashion, music, social, creative world, fashion, music, social, creative world, fashion, music, social, it's that generation that is it's that generation that is it's that generation that is >> historically been the ones that are >> historically been the ones that are >> historically been the ones that are driving the trends. Yeah. Right. Like driving the trends. Yeah. Right. Like driving the trends. Yeah. Right. Like whatever whatever whatever silhouette of jeans, denim that's in the silhouette of jeans, denim that's in the silhouette of jeans, denim that's in the stores is not being driven by the stores is not being driven by the stores is not being driven by the 35-year-olds at this table. It was 10 35-year-olds at this table. It was 10 35-year-olds at this table. It was 10 years ago for us. You're welcome. Skinny years ago for us. You're welcome. Skinny years ago for us. You're welcome. Skinny jeans and they're coming back. jeans and they're coming back. jeans and they're coming back. >> They are. >> They are. >> They are. >> I just finally am used to now. Okay.

>> I just finally am used to now. Okay. >> I just finally am used to now. Okay. >> You're just feeling comfortable in your >> You're just feeling comfortable in your >> You're just feeling comfortable in your baggie jeans and Zara is telling you, baggie jeans and Zara is telling you, baggie jeans and Zara is telling you, "Nope, those are out. Skin tight. Back "Nope, those are out. Skin tight. Back "Nope, those are out. Skin tight. Back in." in." in." >> Hopefully this time we won't have to >> Hopefully this time we won't have to >> Hopefully this time we won't have to shop at the girl stores. shop at the girl stores. shop at the girl stores. >> Yeah. I mean, our bodies are not the >> Yeah. I mean, our bodies are not the >> Yeah. I mean, our bodies are not the same shape that they were last. same shape that they were last. same shape that they were last. >> I dare you. [laughter] >> I dare you. [laughter] >> I dare you. [laughter] >> If we bring back skinny jeans, I'll be >> If we bring back skinny jeans, I'll be >> If we bring back skinny jeans, I'll be there. So, 41% of surveyed Gen Z users there. So, 41% of surveyed Gen Z users there. So, 41% of surveyed Gen Z users said they search social platforms first, said they search social platforms first, said they search social platforms first, not search engines, compared with 32% not search engines, compared with 32% not search engines, compared with 32% who begin with traditional search who begin with traditional search who begin with traditional search engines. So, 41% going to social first engines. So, 41% going to social first engines. So, 41% going to social first to search for something. 32% go to to search for something. 32% go to to search for something. 32% go to Google Yeah. to search for something. or Google Yeah. to search for something. or Google Yeah. to search for something. or an LLM. That maybe seems like pretty an LLM. That maybe seems like pretty an LLM. That maybe seems like pretty normal right now, but I want you to normal right now, but I want you to normal right now, but I want you to imagine that for millennials or for Gen imagine that for millennials or for Gen imagine that for millennials or for Gen X, for boomers, like the thought of I'm X, for boomers, like the thought of I'm X, for boomers, like the thought of I'm going to look up something. I'm going to going to look up something. I'm going to going to look up something. I'm going to go to social media first. go to social media first. go to social media first. >> No, no. Social media is social media. It >> No, no. Social media is social media. It >> No, no. Social media is social media. It is for like social engagement. If I'm is for like social engagement. If I'm is for like social engagement. If I'm going to look for information about an going to look for information about an going to look for information about an establishment, an institution, an establishment, an institution, an establishment, an institution, an organization, a destination, I am going organization, a destination, I am going organization, a destination, I am going to go to the internet. And by internet, to go to the internet. And by internet, to go to the internet. And by internet, I mean Google. But that is just not I mean Google. But that is just not I mean Google. But that is just not behaviorally true anymore. So what that behaviorally true anymore. So what that behaviorally true anymore. So what that means is in the syndication era, we've means is in the syndication era, we've means is in the syndication era, we've discussed this previously, the people discussed this previously, the people discussed this previously, the people that are evaluating your church, this that are evaluating your church, this that are evaluating your church, this silent audience that's going to your silent audience that's going to your silent audience that's going to your Instagram, that's going to your Instagram, that's going to your Instagram, that's going to your Facebook, that's going to your Tik Tok Facebook, that's going to your Tik Tok Facebook, that's going to your Tik Tok to basically see what you're all about to basically see what you're all about to basically see what you're all about will not show up in the first 24 hours will not show up in the first 24 hours will not show up in the first 24 hours that you publish a post. And this is the that you publish a post. And this is the that you publish a post. And this is the part that I think is missed because when

part that I think is missed because when part that I think is missed because when we evaluate the result of a post, we evaluate the result of a post, we evaluate the result of a post, >> we post and we're like, "Okay, how's it >> we post and we're like, "Okay, how's it >> we post and we're like, "Okay, how's it doing in the first like little while?" doing in the first like little while?" doing in the first like little while?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> First couple minutes, >> First couple minutes, >> First couple minutes, >> right? The people that are evaluating >> right? The people that are evaluating >> right? The people that are evaluating your church to determine if they're your church to determine if they're your church to determine if they're going to like show up or not. going to like show up or not. going to like show up or not. >> They're not there. We'll be 100% >> They're not there. We'll be 100% >> They're not there. We'll be 100% invisible from that. In 32 days, they're invisible from that. In 32 days, they're invisible from that. In 32 days, they're going to like scroll down and see a going to like scroll down and see a going to like scroll down and see a post. Or 7 days after you've forgotten post. Or 7 days after you've forgotten post. Or 7 days after you've forgotten about that post and you've published two about that post and you've published two about that post and you've published two more, that's when they're like looking more, that's when they're like looking more, that's when they're like looking on that one. and they're the people that on that one. and they're the people that on that one. and they're the people that are using that social content to are using that social content to are using that social content to evaluate if they're going to take that evaluate if they're going to take that evaluate if they're going to take that next step to visit you. And so to Alex's next step to visit you. And so to Alex's next step to visit you. And so to Alex's question, which was, oh no, this is just question, which was, oh no, this is just question, which was, oh no, this is just shallow. It probably always was to a shallow. It probably always was to a shallow. It probably always was to a certain extent, but there was an ability certain extent, but there was an ability certain extent, but there was an ability for you to take that and translate it for you to take that and translate it for you to take that and translate it into a next step. That may not even be a into a next step. That may not even be a into a next step. That may not even be a realistic objective anymore. And if realistic objective anymore. And if realistic objective anymore. And if that's true in the world of attention that's true in the world of attention that's true in the world of attention and storytelling and content creation, and storytelling and content creation, and storytelling and content creation, what's always been true is that there's what's always been true is that there's what's always been true is that there's different types of content for different different types of content for different different types of content for different types of people. types of people. types of people. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I saw this social post the other >> And so I saw this social post the other >> And so I saw this social post the other day, which I thought had a compelling day, which I thought had a compelling day, which I thought had a compelling concept in it. And the person was concept in it. And the person was concept in it. And the person was proposing if you're on social media to proposing if you're on social media to proposing if you're on social media to think of your account the way that you think of your account the way that you think of your account the way that you think a musical artist might compile a think a musical artist might compile a think a musical artist might compile a new record. There's going to be like the new record. There's going to be like the new record. There's going to be like the single, the one that has the broadest single, the one that has the broadest single, the one that has the broadest reach that everyone knows. And then reach that everyone knows. And then reach that everyone knows. And then there are going to be the tracks that there are going to be the tracks that there are going to be the tracks that are for the fans that listen to every are for the fans that listen to every are for the fans that listen to every album. You know, I am a sicko. I really album. You know, I am a sicko. I really album. You know, I am a sicko. I really only listen to singles because I don't only listen to singles because I don't only listen to singles because I don't have musical depth. Okay, I'm shallow. have musical depth. Okay, I'm shallow. have musical depth. Okay, I'm shallow. [laughter] Alexander refuses to create [laughter] Alexander refuses to create [laughter] Alexander refuses to create playlists. He doesn't believe in them playlists. He doesn't believe in them playlists. He doesn't believe in them spiritually. Pastor playlist never spiritually. Pastor playlist never spiritually. Pastor playlist never existed and he'll only listen to an existed and he'll only listen to an existed and he'll only listen to an album front to back. album front to back. album front to back. >> So, there are artists that are making >> So, there are artists that are making >> So, there are artists that are making songs for Alex. I'll never even get to songs for Alex. I'll never even get to songs for Alex. I'll never even get to them. [laughter] them. [laughter] them. [laughter] >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> And then the final bit is like >> And then the final bit is like >> And then the final bit is like experimentation. An artist who's like, I experimentation. An artist who's like, I experimentation. An artist who's like, I don't even know if this is going to don't even know if this is going to don't even know if this is going to work, but my creative soul demands that work, but my creative soul demands that work, but my creative soul demands that I continue to push the limit and see I continue to push the limit and see I continue to push the limit and see what's possible. what's possible. what's possible. >> Throw it in there. Track seven, track >> Throw it in there. Track seven, track >> Throw it in there. Track seven, track eight. eight. eight. >> Yeah, precisely. That's the B side. It's >> Yeah, precisely. That's the B side. It's >> Yeah, precisely. That's the B side. It's the the hidden track to 20. Remember the the hidden track to 20. Remember the the hidden track to 20. Remember when in the CDs, right? Like why is this when in the CDs, right? Like why is this when in the CDs, right? Like why is this song 11 minutes and then you listen to song 11 minutes and then you listen to song 11 minutes and then you listen to six minutes of silence just to get like six minutes of silence just to get like six minutes of silence just to get like something at the end? Little something at the end? Little something at the end? Little >> Five Frenzy with the uh pants song.

>> Five Frenzy with the uh pants song. >> Five Frenzy with the uh pants song. >> That's exactly what I was thinking >> That's exactly what I was thinking >> That's exactly what I was thinking about. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. That's how about. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. That's how about. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. That's how old we are. So, how would we think about old we are. So, how would we think about old we are. So, how would we think about approaching social media in that same approaching social media in that same approaching social media in that same way? I'm going to try to create a post. way? I'm going to try to create a post. way? I'm going to try to create a post. Maybe it's piggybacking on a trend. And Maybe it's piggybacking on a trend. And Maybe it's piggybacking on a trend. And that's the one that's going to get like that's the one that's going to get like that's the one that's going to get like so many views. And once I've done that, so many views. And once I've done that, so many views. And once I've done that, I'm going to create the ability for I'm going to create the ability for I'm going to create the ability for people who have been inspired or like people who have been inspired or like people who have been inspired or like intrigued. I've got their intention. intrigued. I've got their intention. intrigued. I've got their intention. What is this church all about? And they What is this church all about? And they What is this church all about? And they click. And now they're discovering a click. And now they're discovering a click. And now they're discovering a post that didn't get as broad of a post that didn't get as broad of a post that didn't get as broad of a reach, but is for the people that are reach, but is for the people that are reach, but is for the people that are more closely connected to the church. more closely connected to the church. more closely connected to the church. And that is the post that creates the And that is the post that creates the And that is the post that creates the opportunity for the next step to occur. opportunity for the next step to occur. opportunity for the next step to occur. So now you're creating different content So now you're creating different content So now you're creating different content for different stages in the life cycle. for different stages in the life cycle. for different stages in the life cycle. >> We have this in church already. >> We have this in church already. >> We have this in church already. >> You have Are you new here? Fill out the >> You have Are you new here? Fill out the >> You have Are you new here? Fill out the connect card. connect card. connect card. >> Are you new here? Come to our new >> Are you new here? Come to our new >> Are you new here? Come to our new visitors brunch and meet the pastors or visitors brunch and meet the pastors or visitors brunch and meet the pastors or go through our growth track and learn go through our growth track and learn go through our growth track and learn about the mission of our church. Have about the mission of our church. Have about the mission of our church. Have you been here for a long time? Are you you been here for a long time? Are you you been here for a long time? Are you serving? Are you giving? Are you in a serving? Are you giving? Are you in a serving? Are you giving? Are you in a group? Are you brand new? We don't need group? Are you brand new? We don't need group? Are you brand new? We don't need you to set up recurring giving today. we you to set up recurring giving today. we you to set up recurring giving today. we understand the stages that applies to understand the stages that applies to understand the stages that applies to social media as well. And then always social media as well. And then always social media as well. And then always leave a little bit of, you know, space leave a little bit of, you know, space leave a little bit of, you know, space to try something different and see how to try something different and see how to try something different and see how that goes.

that goes. that goes. >> Yeah. And those those potentially viral >> Yeah. And those those potentially viral >> Yeah. And those those potentially viral posts that, like you said, piggybacking posts that, like you said, piggybacking posts that, like you said, piggybacking off a trend, for example, those matter off a trend, for example, those matter off a trend, for example, those matter in the discovery era because I'm sure in the discovery era because I'm sure in the discovery era because I'm sure anyone listening has had this experience anyone listening has had this experience anyone listening has had this experience where a video comes across your feed of where a video comes across your feed of where a video comes across your feed of someone you've never seen before. Maybe someone you've never seen before. Maybe someone you've never seen before. Maybe it's a trend or whatever. you like it or it's a trend or whatever. you like it or it's a trend or whatever. you like it or maybe you follow them and then the next maybe you follow them and then the next maybe you follow them and then the next time you're on social or sometimes maybe time you're on social or sometimes maybe time you're on social or sometimes maybe even the next post when you scroll it's even the next post when you scroll it's even the next post when you scroll it's another one from that person another one from that person another one from that person >> you get like three more from >> you get like three more from >> you get like three more from >> Yeah. So it really sets the stage when >> Yeah. So it really sets the stage when >> Yeah. So it really sets the stage when you get someone's attention with the you get someone's attention with the you get someone's attention with the discovery kind of catered post it sets discovery kind of catered post it sets discovery kind of catered post it sets the stage it opens the door wide open the stage it opens the door wide open the stage it opens the door wide open for the next thing you want to introduce for the next thing you want to introduce for the next thing you want to introduce them to which is whatever it is. Uh them to which is whatever it is. Uh them to which is whatever it is. Uh sometimes you don't even have control sometimes you don't even have control sometimes you don't even have control over what posts you know the the um over what posts you know the the um over what posts you know the the um algorithm chooses to show them next. But algorithm chooses to show them next. But algorithm chooses to show them next. But those those posts do serve an important those those posts do serve an important those those posts do serve an important role in in showing those people once role in in showing those people once role in in showing those people once they've given you given the algorithm a they've given you given the algorithm a they've given you given the algorithm a signal whether it's hover time or a like signal whether it's hover time or a like signal whether it's hover time or a like or a comment or a follow. It it it or a comment or a follow. It it it or a comment or a follow. It it it really sets the stage for okay what are really sets the stage for okay what are really sets the stage for okay what are we going to show them from this church we going to show them from this church we going to show them from this church next. next. next. >> I might be wrong but I feel like it >> I might be wrong but I feel like it >> I might be wrong but I feel like it didn't used to be as aggressive as it is didn't used to be as aggressive as it is didn't used to be as aggressive as it is now.

now. now. >> Really aggressive right now. Don't show >> Really aggressive right now. Don't show >> Really aggressive right now. Don't show any interest in an idea or a person any interest in an idea or a person any interest in an idea or a person because then they'll be like, "Oh my because then they'll be like, "Oh my because then they'll be like, "Oh my goodness, finally we can help this goodness, finally we can help this goodness, finally we can help this creator out." All you want is fennel creator out." All you want is fennel creator out." All you want is fennel salad on your feed. Okay. Every post salad on your feed. Okay. Every post salad on your feed. Okay. Every post fennel salad. fennel salad. fennel salad. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Coincidentally, this uh week I was >> Coincidentally, this uh week I was >> Coincidentally, this uh week I was working on some some demo content for working on some some demo content for working on some some demo content for some writing. And uh the church that I some writing. And uh the church that I some writing. And uh the church that I came up with with was Tide Light Church came up with with was Tide Light Church came up with with was Tide Light Church in Fennel Cove, Oregon. in Fennel Cove, Oregon. in Fennel Cove, Oregon. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Which I like that. >> Which I like that. >> Which I like that. >> Yeah. So Fennel, you and me. Well, I >> Yeah. So Fennel, you and me. Well, I >> Yeah. So Fennel, you and me. Well, I when we were talking about social as when we were talking about social as when we were talking about social as search, I don't because I'm an elder search, I don't because I'm an elder search, I don't because I'm an elder millennial, I don't use social as search millennial, I don't use social as search millennial, I don't use social as search uh with the one caveat of I'll use uh with the one caveat of I'll use uh with the one caveat of I'll use Instagram to search for recipes. So like Instagram to search for recipes. So like Instagram to search for recipes. So like if I'm in the grocery store and I see if I'm in the grocery store and I see if I'm in the grocery store and I see fennel and it's like really speaking to fennel and it's like really speaking to fennel and it's like really speaking to me me me >> recipes on short form vertical recipes, >> recipes on short form vertical recipes, >> recipes on short form vertical recipes, I'll search fennel salad. I'll search fennel salad. I'll search fennel salad. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Find one that like looks good or has >> Find one that like looks good or has >> Find one that like looks good or has three trillion views. It's like well it three trillion views. It's like well it three trillion views. It's like well it obviously it tastes good and they'll obviously it tastes good and they'll obviously it tastes good and they'll just go to the description, you know, just go to the description, you know, just go to the description, you know, pause the video and make the recipe pause the video and make the recipe pause the video and make the recipe based off the caption. Wow. And I would based off the caption. Wow. And I would based off the caption. Wow. And I would only go to YouTube for recipes, but I only go to YouTube for recipes, but I only go to YouTube for recipes, but I would definitely use vertical on Tik Tok would definitely use vertical on Tik Tok would definitely use vertical on Tik Tok or Instagram for search for any number or Instagram for search for any number or Instagram for search for any number of other topics. But like if I'm got a of other topics. But like if I'm got a of other topics. But like if I'm got a recipe, I'm like I'm locked in. Like recipe, I'm like I'm locked in. Like recipe, I'm like I'm locked in. Like this is like a 20 minute like I need this is like a 20 minute like I need this is like a 20 minute like I need good scrubbing back and forth. I need good scrubbing back and forth. I need good scrubbing back and forth. I need >> a salad, you just throw it together.

>> a salad, you just throw it together. >> a salad, you just throw it together. >> Uh mandolin, is that what it's called? >> Uh mandolin, is that what it's called? >> Uh mandolin, is that what it's called? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You ever cut yourself one of those? >> You ever cut yourself one of those? >> You ever cut yourself one of those? >> I haven't yet. >> I haven't yet. >> I haven't yet. >> Neither have I. [laughter] >> Neither have I. [laughter] >> Neither have I. [laughter] >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Mandolins are miracle objects that scare >> Mandolins are miracle objects that scare >> Mandolins are miracle objects that scare me to death. I'm always washing it. I'm me to death. I'm always washing it. I'm me to death. I'm always washing it. I'm getting like a paper towel. It's a huge getting like a paper towel. It's a huge getting like a paper towel. It's a huge chunk. I'm like holding like the very chunk. I'm like holding like the very chunk. I'm like holding like the very edge. edge. edge. >> Work the blade. [snorts] >> Work the blade. [snorts] >> Work the blade. [snorts] >> Big idea number four. Your follower >> Big idea number four. Your follower >> Big idea number four. Your follower count matters less. This probably is count matters less. This probably is count matters less. This probably is self-explanatory if you've been self-explanatory if you've been self-explanatory if you've been listening closely listening closely to listening closely listening closely to listening closely listening closely to this episode because if supply has this episode because if supply has this episode because if supply has outpaced demand and the depth of outpaced demand and the depth of outpaced demand and the depth of connection has changed, what that means connection has changed, what that means connection has changed, what that means is you're probably not as reliably able is you're probably not as reliably able is you're probably not as reliably able to reach your followers. Now, you can to reach your followers. Now, you can to reach your followers. Now, you can interpret that as a negative. I want to interpret that as a negative. I want to interpret that as a negative. I want to come at it from the positive stance come at it from the positive stance come at it from the positive stance because most churches do not have like, because most churches do not have like, because most churches do not have like, you know, we do 178,000 followers on you know, we do 178,000 followers on you know, we do 178,000 followers on Instagram. Instagram. Instagram. >> They have 296 or 3,11. >> They have 296 or 3,11. >> They have 296 or 3,11. And one, when you are an inerson And one, when you are an inerson And one, when you are an inerson organization, this trend doesn't apply organization, this trend doesn't apply organization, this trend doesn't apply to you typically as much. Churches have to you typically as much. Churches have to you typically as much. Churches have the ability to buck this trend in the the ability to buck this trend in the the ability to buck this trend in the way that creators like me do not because way that creators like me do not because way that creators like me do not because I don't have an inerson presence where I don't have an inerson presence where I don't have an inerson presence where I'm seeing you every single weekend, I'm seeing you every single weekend, I'm seeing you every single weekend, >> 40% of weekends. And the positive here >> 40% of weekends. And the positive here >> 40% of weekends. And the positive here is that previously there was a ceiling is that previously there was a ceiling is that previously there was a ceiling on how many people you could reach on how many people you could reach on how many people you could reach outside of paid distribution if you had outside of paid distribution if you had outside of paid distribution if you had x amount of followers. That has been x amount of followers. That has been x amount of followers. That has been completely obliterated. And it took a completely obliterated. And it took a completely obliterated. And it took a little while be you know 3 years ago we little while be you know 3 years ago we little while be you know 3 years ago we were having conversations or 5 years ago were having conversations or 5 years ago were having conversations or 5 years ago about wow a church broke out and you'd about wow a church broke out and you'd about wow a church broke out and you'd have like a post that breaks out and have like a post that breaks out and have like a post that breaks out and nowadays it's TV. It's like you're just nowadays it's TV. It's like you're just nowadays it's TV. It's like you're just flicking channels and if you make flicking channels and if you make flicking channels and if you make something that's awesome maybe people something that's awesome maybe people something that's awesome maybe people will stop and pause. So the positive

will stop and pause. So the positive will stop and pause. So the positive here is that here is that here is that >> your follower count does not limit you. >> your follower count does not limit you. >> your follower count does not limit you. You could have a post that reaches 1,000 You could have a post that reaches 1,000 You could have a post that reaches 1,000 people if you have 100 followers, 10,000 people if you have 100 followers, 10,000 people if you have 100 followers, 10,000 people if you have 100 followers, people if you have 100 followers, people if you have 100 followers, 100,000 people if you have 100 followers 100,000 people if you have 100 followers 100,000 people if you have 100 followers and change your follower count and the and change your follower count and the and change your follower count and the potential upside does not change at all. potential upside does not change at all. potential upside does not change at all. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Big idea number five. YouTube is still >> Big idea number five. YouTube is still >> Big idea number five. YouTube is still the main event. 84% of US adults use the main event. 84% of US adults use the main event. 84% of US adults use YouTube and about half visit it daily. YouTube and about half visit it daily. YouTube and about half visit it daily. Why? For fennel salad recipes. Why? For fennel salad recipes. Why? For fennel salad recipes. >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> amongst other things. Presumably, >> amongst other things. Presumably, >> amongst other things. Presumably, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> YouTube is the only platform besides >> YouTube is the only platform besides >> YouTube is the only platform besides Facebook used by a majority of every Facebook used by a majority of every Facebook used by a majority of every adult age group. And I'm just going to adult age group. And I'm just going to adult age group. And I'm just going to venture a guess that people think about venture a guess that people think about venture a guess that people think about YouTube in every adult age group YouTube in every adult age group YouTube in every adult age group differently than people think about differently than people think about differently than people think about Facebook. Facebook. Facebook. >> YouTube is distinct amongst the big >> YouTube is distinct amongst the big >> YouTube is distinct amongst the big four, which I think about as Instagram, four, which I think about as Instagram, four, which I think about as Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, and YouTube because Facebook, Tik Tok, and YouTube because Facebook, Tik Tok, and YouTube because every generation is there. We have seen every generation is there. We have seen every generation is there. We have seen generations kind of settle on the other generations kind of settle on the other generations kind of settle on the other platforms and claim them as their own. platforms and claim them as their own. platforms and claim them as their own. Millennials, hey, Instagram has been Millennials, hey, Instagram has been Millennials, hey, Instagram has been ours. Gen Z, that's for Tik Tok. Gen X ours. Gen Z, that's for Tik Tok. Gen X ours. Gen Z, that's for Tik Tok. Gen X boomers, that was Facebook. YouTube, all boomers, that was Facebook. YouTube, all boomers, that was Facebook. YouTube, all are welcome and all are choosing to go are welcome and all are choosing to go are welcome and all are choosing to go there.

there. there. >> It uniquely combines a number of >> It uniquely combines a number of >> It uniquely combines a number of different things as well. Search different things as well. Search different things as well. Search >> short form, which again, 61% of YouTube >> short form, which again, 61% of YouTube >> short form, which again, 61% of YouTube views is now short form. Remember when views is now short form. Remember when views is now short form. Remember when that was introduced and we could kind of that was introduced and we could kind of that was introduced and we could kind of see where that was going? see where that was going? see where that was going? >> Yeah. What do you think that is? Do you >> Yeah. What do you think that is? Do you >> Yeah. What do you think that is? Do you think that's young? think that's young? think that's young? >> Gen alpha. >> Gen alpha. >> Gen alpha. >> Well, that's what I'm going to say. >> Well, that's what I'm going to say. >> Well, that's what I'm going to say. Young kids whose parents don't allow Young kids whose parents don't allow Young kids whose parents don't allow them to have access to Tik Tok or them to have access to Tik Tok or them to have access to Tik Tok or Instagram. That's part of it, but it's Instagram. That's part of it, but it's Instagram. That's part of it, but it's also just math because let's say the also just math because let's say the also just math because let's say the average person that watches this video average person that watches this video average person that watches this video spends 9 minutes and the average person spends 9 minutes and the average person spends 9 minutes and the average person that watches a short spends 9 seconds. that watches a short spends 9 seconds. that watches a short spends 9 seconds. >> That just means that you're going to >> That just means that you're going to >> That just means that you're going to have if you have a 9-minute session, you have if you have a 9-minute session, you have if you have a 9-minute session, you could watch 100 times more. could watch 100 times more. could watch 100 times more. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> That's not the perfect math, but you >> That's not the perfect math, but you >> That's not the perfect math, but you could watch. So naturally, if you were could watch. So naturally, if you were could watch. So naturally, if you were doing on a view basis that now is now, doing on a view basis that now is now, doing on a view basis that now is now, it's interesting. Is that based on it's interesting. Is that based on it's interesting. Is that based on seconds of time or based on views? seconds of time or based on views? seconds of time or based on views? I didn't dive that deep into the I didn't dive that deep into the I didn't dive that deep into the numbers. Someone can and should put that numbers. Someone can and should put that numbers. Someone can and should put that in the comments. Again, YouTube and its in the comments. Again, YouTube and its in the comments. Again, YouTube and its unique combination of mechanisms. Search unique combination of mechanisms. Search unique combination of mechanisms. Search short from discovery, the long form short from discovery, the long form short from discovery, the long form depth, depth, depth, >> especially as TV becomes one of the >> especially as TV becomes one of the >> especially as TV becomes one of the primary mediums and devices where people primary mediums and devices where people primary mediums and devices where people are watching YouTube. We're settling in are watching YouTube. We're settling in are watching YouTube. We're settling in for these longer sessions. What we've for these longer sessions. What we've for these longer sessions. What we've been doing with the Church Chaos show been doing with the Church Chaos show been doing with the Church Chaos show where we visit churches in person and where we visit churches in person and where we visit churches in person and basically do these in-person like basically do these in-person like basically do these in-person like workshops with them. A big part of that workshops with them. A big part of that workshops with them. A big part of that is to say, "Hey, we're not AI talking is to say, "Hey, we're not AI talking is to say, "Hey, we're not AI talking heads. we're here really at a church.

heads. we're here really at a church. heads. we're here really at a church. But the other part of it is But the other part of it is But the other part of it is >> I want you to settle in with your coffee >> I want you to settle in with your coffee >> I want you to settle in with your coffee or your food, your lunch, whatever it or your food, your lunch, whatever it or your food, your lunch, whatever it is. Like, hey, I'm going to watch this. is. Like, hey, I'm going to watch this. is. Like, hey, I'm going to watch this. And if you watch it on the television, And if you watch it on the television, And if you watch it on the television, you're going to get like a good you're going to get like a good you're going to get like a good 20-minute program as if you were sitting 20-minute program as if you were sitting 20-minute program as if you were sitting down for an episode of The Office or down for an episode of The Office or down for an episode of The Office or whatever it might be. whatever it might be. whatever it might be. Evergreen content is also a big part of Evergreen content is also a big part of Evergreen content is also a big part of YouTube, and that doesn't exist in the YouTube, and that doesn't exist in the YouTube, and that doesn't exist in the same way on the other platforms. Now, same way on the other platforms. Now, same way on the other platforms. Now, your posts don't really expire in like your posts don't really expire in like your posts don't really expire in like 24 hours the way that they used to. But 24 hours the way that they used to. But 24 hours the way that they used to. But on YouTube, our best indexed videos are on YouTube, our best indexed videos are on YouTube, our best indexed videos are from years ago, still getting new views. from years ago, still getting new views. from years ago, still getting new views. And if you discover a series like Church And if you discover a series like Church And if you discover a series like Church Chaos and you like one of the videos, Chaos and you like one of the videos, Chaos and you like one of the videos, maybe you go to the playlist and you're maybe you go to the playlist and you're maybe you go to the playlist and you're watching it all back the same way. Oh, watching it all back the same way. Oh, watching it all back the same way. Oh, we like this old show. You know what? we like this old show. You know what? we like this old show. You know what? Let's watch a full season. We found this Let's watch a full season. We found this Let's watch a full season. We found this like, you know, fun reality TV show. like, you know, fun reality TV show. like, you know, fun reality TV show. Let's go back watch a different season. Let's go back watch a different season. Let's go back watch a different season. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then the final big idea, it just And then the final big idea, it just And then the final big idea, it just every presupposition that you had is every presupposition that you had is every presupposition that you had is about to be shattered [laughter] about to be shattered [laughter] about to be shattered [laughter] because God is not dead and neither is because God is not dead and neither is because God is not dead and neither is Facebook. [laughter] That's what I named Facebook. [laughter] That's what I named Facebook. [laughter] That's what I named this because according to Pew Research and because according to Pew Research and Metricool's 2026 social media study, 71% Metricool's 2026 social media study, 71% Metricool's 2026 social media study, 71% of American adults still report using of American adults still report using of American adults still report using Facebook. And daily use is highest Facebook. And daily use is highest Facebook. And daily use is highest amongst adults ages 63 and up. No, ages amongst adults ages 63 and up. No, ages amongst adults ages 63 and up. No, ages 30 to 64.

30 to 64. 30 to 64. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> So my question for you is what do you >> So my question for you is what do you >> So my question for you is what do you have to say about say for yourself, have to say about say for yourself, have to say about say for yourself, >> Mr. 33year-old >> Mr. 33year-old >> Mr. 33year-old Jesus year still on Facebook? Jesus year still on Facebook? Jesus year still on Facebook? >> I think about my relationship with >> I think about my relationship with >> I think about my relationship with Facebook a lot because I work on Facebook a lot because I work on Facebook a lot because I work on Facebook and so I'm on there every day Facebook and so I'm on there every day Facebook and so I'm on there every day because I work there and I ask myself, because I work there and I ask myself, because I work there and I ask myself, >> you're going to throw it right back. >> you're going to throw it right back. >> you're going to throw it right back. >> No, I'm just I'm curious about my own >> No, I'm just I'm curious about my own >> No, I'm just I'm curious about my own behavior. Like if I didn't work on behavior. Like if I didn't work on behavior. Like if I didn't work on Facebook, how often would I be on this Facebook, how often would I be on this Facebook, how often would I be on this platform? I would be on marketplace all platform? I would be on marketplace all platform? I would be on marketplace all the time. the time. the time. >> Ah, I went on behalf of my wife to buy a >> Ah, I went on behalf of my wife to buy a >> Ah, I went on behalf of my wife to buy a photo. No, to buy a print this last photo. No, to buy a print this last photo. No, to buy a print this last weekend weekend weekend >> and it sent me to Wellland, >> and it sent me to Wellland, >> and it sent me to Wellland, but it wasn't Well, but it wasn't Well, but it wasn't Well, >> that was a heroic thing of you to do. >> that was a heroic thing of you to do. >> that was a heroic thing of you to do. >> Definitely Pelum. >> Definitely Pelum. >> Definitely Pelum. >> This is some really local Niagara. >> This is some really local Niagara. >> This is some really local Niagara. Anyway, I roll up and we have the brief Anyway, I roll up and we have the brief Anyway, I roll up and we have the brief marketplace interaction. I always try to marketplace interaction. I always try to marketplace interaction. I always try to be friendly because I want them to know be friendly because I want them to know be friendly because I want them to know like I'm not here to like bargain. I'm like I'm not here to like bargain. I'm like I'm not here to like bargain. I'm not here to like be a bad here's your not here to like be a bad here's your not here to like be a bad here's your money. You said this money. Give me the money. You said this money. Give me the money. You said this money. Give me the thing. See you. And it was this print of thing. See you. And it was this print of thing. See you. And it was this print of these two girls at Christmas time. One these two girls at Christmas time. One these two girls at Christmas time. One that looks like the age of my eldest.

that looks like the age of my eldest. that looks like the age of my eldest. One that looks like the age of my One that looks like the age of my One that looks like the age of my youngest. We found out this is a painter youngest. We found out this is a painter youngest. We found out this is a painter or a artist that only does Niagara on or a artist that only does Niagara on or a artist that only does Niagara on the lake. the lake. the lake. >> Let me guess. Her name's Trisha Romance. >> Let me guess. Her name's Trisha Romance. >> Let me guess. Her name's Trisha Romance. >> If it is, which it probably is, but I >> If it is, which it probably is, but I >> If it is, which it probably is, but I don't know. It wouldn't be s wouldn't don't know. It wouldn't be s wouldn't don't know. It wouldn't be s wouldn't surprise me if you uh Now, now let's surprise me if you uh Now, now let's surprise me if you uh Now, now let's pause here. Are you related to her? No. pause here. Are you related to her? No. pause here. Are you related to her? No. >> Do you know her? Can you text her? Is >> Do you know her? Can you text her? Is >> Do you know her? Can you text her? Is she in your phone? she in your phone? she in your phone? >> I can't right now. >> I can't right now. >> I can't right now. >> No, but my dad could. >> No, but my dad could. >> No, but my dad could. >> Okay. Cuz Brit would like some more >> Okay. Cuz Brit would like some more >> Okay. Cuz Brit would like some more prints. Yeah. prints. Yeah. prints. Yeah. >> So, we're happy to pay and not bargain. >> So, we're happy to pay and not bargain. >> So, we're happy to pay and not bargain. Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] >> With the people of Wellland if we can go >> With the people of Wellland if we can go >> With the people of Wellland if we can go direct to the source. direct to the source. direct to the source. >> Yeah. I'm on marketplace all the time. >> Yeah. I'm on marketplace all the time. >> Yeah. I'm on marketplace all the time. Um I spend very little time on my Um I spend very little time on my Um I spend very little time on my personal Facebook feed because it to me personal Facebook feed because it to me personal Facebook feed because it to me Facebook feels like the bad place. Like Facebook feels like the bad place. Like Facebook feels like the bad place. Like there's just stuff on there I don't care there's just stuff on there I don't care there's just stuff on there I don't care to see. Yeah. to see. Yeah. to see. Yeah. >> But that is where we continue to have >> But that is where we continue to have >> But that is where we continue to have our We've talked about this on this show our We've talked about this on this show our We've talked about this on this show for a long time. our like private church for a long time. our like private church for a long time. our like private church Facebook group that continues to be our Facebook group that continues to be our Facebook group that continues to be our central private place for like central private place for like central private place for like congregational congregational congregational activity online activity online activity online >> church of about 70. >> church of about 70. >> church of about 70. >> Yeah. Yeah. So face Facebook really does >> Yeah. Yeah. So face Facebook really does >> Yeah. Yeah. So face Facebook really does have now I've just out ofed myself like have now I've just out ofed myself like have now I've just out ofed myself like I work there. I'm there for pleasure.

I work there. I'm there for pleasure. I work there. I'm there for pleasure. I'm there for church. Like I'm I am I am I'm there for church. Like I'm I am I am I'm there for church. Like I'm I am I am this statistic. this statistic. this statistic. So my question was, does that mean we've So my question was, does that mean we've So my question was, does that mean we've had the wrong read on Facebook for the had the wrong read on Facebook for the had the wrong read on Facebook for the longest time or has there been a longest time or has there been a longest time or has there been a material change? Because it's not material change? Because it's not material change? Because it's not uncommon in culture for something to be uncommon in culture for something to be uncommon in culture for something to be uncool and then you find out but uncool and then you find out but uncool and then you find out but everyone's listening to it. Nickelback everyone's listening to it. Nickelback everyone's listening to it. Nickelback [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] and then they come back and you're like, and then they come back and you're like, and then they come back and you're like, >> did Nickelback get a bad rap? Like are >> did Nickelback get a bad rap? Like are >> did Nickelback get a bad rap? Like are they actually awesome? Look at this they actually awesome? Look at this they actually awesome? Look at this photograph. And this was in the metrical photograph. And this was in the metrical photograph. And this was in the metrical study which was that their sample study which was that their sample study which was that their sample recorded a 51% rebound in Facebook reach recorded a 51% rebound in Facebook reach recorded a 51% rebound in Facebook reach >> and a 56% increase in interactions. >> and a 56% increase in interactions. >> and a 56% increase in interactions. >> I don't post on Facebook. You do for the >> I don't post on Facebook. You do for the >> I don't post on Facebook. You do for the company. Are you seeing like numbers company. Are you seeing like numbers company. Are you seeing like numbers that echo that at all? that echo that at all? that echo that at all? >> I mean once we started doing DM >> I mean once we started doing DM >> I mean once we started doing DM automation on Facebook, we actually saw automation on Facebook, we actually saw automation on Facebook, we actually saw >> like Instagram's been declining. >> like Instagram's been declining. >> like Instagram's been declining. >> Yeah. for us very meaningfully and it >> Yeah. for us very meaningfully and it >> Yeah. for us very meaningfully and it has been like a constant but it like has been like a constant but it like has been like a constant but it like this year has been like tanking relative this year has been like tanking relative this year has been like tanking relative to what we were used to to what we were used to to what we were used to >> in uh Tik Tok's been going up after it >> in uh Tik Tok's been going up after it >> in uh Tik Tok's been going up after it was a constant of like meager for the was a constant of like meager for the was a constant of like meager for the longest time longest time longest time >> and then once we started doing DM >> and then once we started doing DM >> and then once we started doing DM automation you know comment camera and automation you know comment camera and automation you know comment camera and we'll send you like the camera guide we'll send you like the camera guide we'll send you like the camera guide Facebook went up really measurably as Facebook went up really measurably as Facebook went up really measurably as well well well >> and YouTube has gone up measurably also >> and YouTube has gone up measurably also >> and YouTube has gone up measurably also and then they've definitely gone up and then they've definitely gone up and then they've definitely gone up measurably after they changed how views measurably after they changed how views measurably after they changed how views were calculated, were calculated, were calculated, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Which is this whole new thing that I >> Which is this whole new thing that I >> Which is this whole new thing that I think is a positive overall think is a positive overall think is a positive overall >> because and this is just like how simple >> because and this is just like how simple >> because and this is just like how simple the brain is, the human mind. Maybe I'm the brain is, the human mind. Maybe I'm the brain is, the human mind. Maybe I'm just a really, you know, I'm a simple just a really, you know, I'm a simple just a really, you know, I'm a simple person, but like you go on Instagram and person, but like you go on Instagram and person, but like you go on Instagram and it's like 100,000 views and then you're it's like 100,000 views and then you're it's like 100,000 views and then you're like, I spent 20 times as much time and like, I spent 20 times as much time and like, I spent 20 times as much time and creative energy and cash on this YouTube creative energy and cash on this YouTube creative energy and cash on this YouTube video that we made for churches and it's video that we made for churches and it's video that we made for churches and it's like like like >> 4,500 views and you're like, ah, that >> 4,500 views and you're like, ah, that >> 4,500 views and you're like, ah, that makes me sad. And I think YouTube makes me sad. And I think YouTube makes me sad. And I think YouTube probably was like, we want a view on our probably was like, we want a view on our probably was like, we want a view on our platform because short form is now just platform because short form is now just platform because short form is now just as much as anything else. as much as anything else. as much as anything else. >> We want a view on every single thing on >> We want a view on every single thing on >> We want a view on every single thing on this platform to be the same as this platform to be the same as this platform to be the same as Instagram and Facebook. So when you look Instagram and Facebook. So when you look Instagram and Facebook. So when you look at a post on Instagram and you compare at a post on Instagram and you compare at a post on Instagram and you compare it to a post on YouTube, it's a one for it to a post on YouTube, it's a one for it to a post on YouTube, it's a one for one comparison. one comparison. one comparison. >> For anyone that doesn't know, YouTube >> For anyone that doesn't know, YouTube >> For anyone that doesn't know, YouTube changed how they're counting views. changed how they're counting views. changed how they're counting views. Before it was unknown, but a certain Before it was unknown, but a certain Before it was unknown, but a certain number of seconds had to occur of watch number of seconds had to occur of watch number of seconds had to occur of watch time before they counted it as a view. time before they counted it as a view. time before they counted it as a view. And they wouldn't reveal it. And And they wouldn't reveal it. And And they wouldn't reveal it. And presumably it was different per video, presumably it was different per video, presumably it was different per video, but now it's like 1 second is a view.

but now it's like 1 second is a view. but now it's like 1 second is a view. And so and so we're seeing that in the And so and so we're seeing that in the And so and so we're seeing that in the numbers, numbers, numbers, >> right? Like you're like, "Oh, look, >> right? Like you're like, "Oh, look, >> right? Like you're like, "Oh, look, Church Chaos episode 4, 28,000 views. Church Chaos episode 4, 28,000 views. Church Chaos episode 4, 28,000 views. Church Chaos episode 3, 4,500 views." Church Chaos episode 3, 4,500 views." Church Chaos episode 3, 4,500 views." And then you look at likes and it's And then you look at likes and it's And then you look at likes and it's like, "Oh, there's only a 100 likes like, "Oh, there's only a 100 likes like, "Oh, there's only a 100 likes difference." And then you look at the difference." And then you look at the difference." And then you look at the revenue and you're like, "The revenue revenue and you're like, "The revenue revenue and you're like, "The revenue was pretty similar." So, you're like, was pretty similar." So, you're like, was pretty similar." So, you're like, "Was 4,500 views the same as 28,000?" "Was 4,500 views the same as 28,000?" "Was 4,500 views the same as 28,000?" For those that don't know, you can go For those that don't know, you can go For those that don't know, you can go into YouTube Studio and look at engaged into YouTube Studio and look at engaged into YouTube Studio and look at engaged views, which is the same metric as views, which is the same metric as views, which is the same metric as before from my understanding if you want before from my understanding if you want before from my understanding if you want to compare. And so, we did compare like, to compare. And so, we did compare like, to compare. And so, we did compare like, "Oh, no. This video is performing "Oh, no. This video is performing "Oh, no. This video is performing materially better, but materially better, but materially better, but >> not that much better." >> not that much better." >> not that much better." >> Right. Not eight times better. Yeah. >> Right. Not eight times better. Yeah. >> Right. Not eight times better. Yeah. >> Correct. Interesting. >> Correct. Interesting. >> Correct. Interesting. >> The changing landscape of social media. >> The changing landscape of social media. >> The changing landscape of social media. When I was putting this together, what When I was putting this together, what When I was putting this together, what surprised me was how I don't think aside surprised me was how I don't think aside surprised me was how I don't think aside from like YouTube changing their views from like YouTube changing their views from like YouTube changing their views and how they're counted and this and how they're counted and this and how they're counted and this Facebook revelation, which was new to Facebook revelation, which was new to Facebook revelation, which was new to me. Everything else we've talked about, me. Everything else we've talked about, me. Everything else we've talked about, YouTube is the main event. YouTube is the main event. YouTube is the main event. >> Yeah. What has changed? >> Yeah. What has changed? >> Yeah. What has changed? >> Social media is search. Your follower >> Social media is search. Your follower >> Social media is search. Your follower account doesn't matter. Short form is account doesn't matter. Short form is account doesn't matter. Short form is for discovery, not depth. And we've for discovery, not depth. And we've for discovery, not depth. And we've reached peak content. Supply is reached peak content. Supply is reached peak content. Supply is outpacing demand. We've been talking outpacing demand. We've been talking outpacing demand. We've been talking about these things for a couple of about these things for a couple of about these things for a couple of years. I do think there is this misnomer years. I do think there is this misnomer years. I do think there is this misnomer that social media changes at this rapid that social media changes at this rapid that social media changes at this rapid pace. It changes consistently pace. It changes consistently pace. It changes consistently >> because it's a new industry >> because it's a new industry >> because it's a new industry >> like relatively right like it's still we >> like relatively right like it's still we >> like relatively right like it's still we remember when Facebook basically became remember when Facebook basically became remember when Facebook basically became a new thing and we all joined it out of a new thing and we all joined it out of a new thing and we all joined it out of MySpace MySpace MySpace >> and Messenger.

>> and Messenger. >> and Messenger. So, it's changing pretty consistently So, it's changing pretty consistently So, it's changing pretty consistently because it has been this this developing because it has been this this developing because it has been this this developing area. And I I like to use that kind of area. And I I like to use that kind of area. And I I like to use that kind of real estate analogy. If you think about real estate analogy. If you think about real estate analogy. If you think about like, you know, the fast growing towns, like, you know, the fast growing towns, like, you know, the fast growing towns, like they don't go they don't grow fast like they don't go they don't grow fast like they don't go they don't grow fast forever. The real estate isn't hot forever. The real estate isn't hot forever. The real estate isn't hot forever. Eventually things kind of forever. Eventually things kind of forever. Eventually things kind of settle down and then things don't settle down and then things don't settle down and then things don't actually change that much. These have actually change that much. These have actually change that much. These have been true for the past two or three been true for the past two or three been true for the past two or three years. But if social media is one of the years. But if social media is one of the years. But if social media is one of the hats that you're wearing amongst many hats that you're wearing amongst many hats that you're wearing amongst many others at church, even a change that's others at church, even a change that's others at church, even a change that's only 3 years young could feel like a only 3 years young could feel like a only 3 years young could feel like a massive departure from what you knew massive departure from what you knew massive departure from what you knew >> for the 5 years prior. >> for the 5 years prior. >> for the 5 years prior. >> Yeah, that's for sure. >> Yeah, that's for sure. >> Yeah, that's for sure. >> But the state of social media in 2026 to >> But the state of social media in 2026 to >> But the state of social media in 2026 to my eyes does not look that much my eyes does not look that much my eyes does not look that much different to the state of 2025 except different to the state of 2025 except different to the state of 2025 except maybe these things have just become like maybe these things have just become like maybe these things have just become like a little bit more true. a little bit more true. a little bit more true. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> there's even more supply and demand has >> there's even more supply and demand has >> there's even more supply and demand has remained static. So you might even see remained static. So you might even see remained static. So you might even see more diminishing returns as an example. more diminishing returns as an example. more diminishing returns as an example. >> Yeah. If I think over the last year or >> Yeah. If I think over the last year or >> Yeah. If I think over the last year or so since the last time we did an episode so since the last time we did an episode so since the last time we did an episode like this, I think about these platforms like this, I think about these platforms like this, I think about these platforms and I think well all the features are and I think well all the features are and I think well all the features are pretty similar. Like none of them pretty similar. Like none of them pretty similar. Like none of them developed or shipped like a a developed or shipped like a a developed or shipped like a a revolutionary feature. Facebook's been revolutionary feature. Facebook's been revolutionary feature. Facebook's been the same for the la I don't remember the the same for the la I don't remember the the same for the la I don't remember the last time Facebook uh delivered a new last time Facebook uh delivered a new last time Facebook uh delivered a new feature that caught my attention. Um the feature that caught my attention. Um the feature that caught my attention. Um the algorithm seem to behave pretty algorithm seem to behave pretty algorithm seem to behave pretty similarly. the the the thing that stands similarly. the the the thing that stands similarly. the the the thing that stands out in my mind over the last year is out in my mind over the last year is out in my mind over the last year is like of course there's just a bunch of like of course there's just a bunch of like of course there's just a bunch of AI content on there, but we're like AI content on there, but we're like AI content on there, but we're like we're learning how to live in that we're learning how to live in that we're learning how to live in that digital landscape.

digital landscape. digital landscape. >> Um it's undesirable in in in many ways. >> Um it's undesirable in in in many ways. >> Um it's undesirable in in in many ways. Um but as far as it relates to the Um but as far as it relates to the Um but as far as it relates to the churches who are listening, like I don't churches who are listening, like I don't churches who are listening, like I don't really know how much that impacts you really know how much that impacts you really know how much that impacts you and your mission and what you're doing and your mission and what you're doing and your mission and what you're doing on your day-to-day basis when you're on your day-to-day basis when you're on your day-to-day basis when you're sitting down to consider, okay, what do sitting down to consider, okay, what do sitting down to consider, okay, what do we want to create um for social media we want to create um for social media we want to create um for social media this week? And and how what is our what this week? And and how what is our what this week? And and how what is our what do we want our strategy to be? I'm not do we want our strategy to be? I'm not do we want our strategy to be? I'm not really sure how that impacts the church really sure how that impacts the church really sure how that impacts the church at all. Um, so it is interesting to kind at all. Um, so it is interesting to kind at all. Um, so it is interesting to kind of reflect, you know, with hindsight and of reflect, you know, with hindsight and of reflect, you know, with hindsight and see, oh, not really a lot has changed see, oh, not really a lot has changed see, oh, not really a lot has changed and not just in the last year, but maybe and not just in the last year, but maybe and not just in the last year, but maybe in the last handful of years. And and I in the last handful of years. And and I in the last handful of years. And and I don't know if that's what you're saying don't know if that's what you're saying don't know if that's what you're saying where the the the evolution is kind of where the the the evolution is kind of where the the the evolution is kind of slowing and settling, which I'm sure is slowing and settling, which I'm sure is slowing and settling, which I'm sure is true, or if that also means that maybe true, or if that also means that maybe true, or if that also means that maybe we're on the brink of like the next we're on the brink of like the next we're on the brink of like the next thing, you know, however, um, Tik Tok thing, you know, however, um, Tik Tok thing, you know, however, um, Tik Tok and the discovery algorithm upended what and the discovery algorithm upended what and the discovery algorithm upended what we knew about social media. Maybe we're we knew about social media. Maybe we're we knew about social media. Maybe we're on the brink of whatever's next. Uh that on the brink of whatever's next. Uh that on the brink of whatever's next. Uh that remains to be seen, but as of uh as of remains to be seen, but as of uh as of remains to be seen, but as of uh as of today, we're kind of just saying similar today, we're kind of just saying similar today, we're kind of just saying similar things to what we said this time last things to what we said this time last things to what we said this time last year. year. year. >> Yeah. As an industry matures, it changes >> Yeah. As an industry matures, it changes >> Yeah. As an industry matures, it changes less. The opportunities diminish, but less. The opportunities diminish, but less. The opportunities diminish, but it's more reliable, it's more reliable, it's more reliable, which begs the question, and Alex led which begs the question, and Alex led which begs the question, and Alex led into it perfectly, what's coming next?

into it perfectly, what's coming next? into it perfectly, what's coming next? We have become conditioned to the rhythm We have become conditioned to the rhythm We have become conditioned to the rhythm of social media disruption. We've gamed of social media disruption. We've gamed of social media disruption. We've gamed this entire thing. There's a bit of this entire thing. There's a bit of this entire thing. There's a bit of stagnation. Something is coming around stagnation. Something is coming around stagnation. Something is coming around the corner. that doesn't go on forever. the corner. that doesn't go on forever. the corner. that doesn't go on forever. Industries don't continue to evolve like Industries don't continue to evolve like Industries don't continue to evolve like that. They basically find like, okay, that. They basically find like, okay, that. They basically find like, okay, this is our settling point. This is what this is our settling point. This is what this is our settling point. This is what feels natural and that's just how things feels natural and that's just how things feels natural and that's just how things are going to be. And then greater are going to be. And then greater are going to be. And then greater cultural trends can disrupt them, right? cultural trends can disrupt them, right? cultural trends can disrupt them, right? Like, okay, education, Like, okay, education, Like, okay, education, >> can we point to all the flaws in public >> can we point to all the flaws in public >> can we point to all the flaws in public education and how we want to improve it? education and how we want to improve it? education and how we want to improve it? Like, can we write our think pieces? Can Like, can we write our think pieces? Can Like, can we write our think pieces? Can people make their proposals? Yes. And people make their proposals? Yes. And people make their proposals? Yes. And yet, it's like all so hard to change. yet, it's like all so hard to change. yet, it's like all so hard to change. >> But then there's a big cultural >> But then there's a big cultural >> But then there's a big cultural disruption. Guess what? Math is ruined disruption. Guess what? Math is ruined disruption. Guess what? Math is ruined because of calculators. Okay, guess because of calculators. Okay, guess because of calculators. Okay, guess what? AI is writing every single essay. what? AI is writing every single essay. what? AI is writing every single essay. Okay. Are we going to be forced to Okay. Are we going to be forced to Okay. Are we going to be forced to change how we're raising young people to change how we're raising young people to change how we're raising young people to learn and think? Perhaps not because learn and think? Perhaps not because learn and think? Perhaps not because education as an establishment wanted to education as an establishment wanted to education as an establishment wanted to change, but because it was forced to change, but because it was forced to change, but because it was forced to change. So, is something going to come change. So, is something going to come change. So, is something going to come out of this where we've become out of this where we've become out of this where we've become disillusioned enough with social media disillusioned enough with social media disillusioned enough with social media that a new platform re-engages our that a new platform re-engages our that a new platform re-engages our excitement and enthusiasm for what's excitement and enthusiasm for what's excitement and enthusiasm for what's possible?

possible? possible? >> That could happen. or we've kind of >> That could happen. or we've kind of >> That could happen. or we've kind of reached the point of maturity that's not reached the point of maturity that's not reached the point of maturity that's not going to happen and we're going to see going to happen and we're going to see going to happen and we're going to see kind of like diminishing interest in the kind of like diminishing interest in the kind of like diminishing interest in the ideas of social media because the ideas of social media because the ideas of social media because the opportunity has diminished. opportunity has diminished. opportunity has diminished. >> Think about like Bitcoin when Bitcoin as >> Think about like Bitcoin when Bitcoin as >> Think about like Bitcoin when Bitcoin as an asset was having like a run. you make an asset was having like a run. you make an asset was having like a run. you make a video on it, you make a social post on a video on it, you make a social post on a video on it, you make a social post on it and everyone's like, I gotta pay it and everyone's like, I gotta pay it and everyone's like, I gotta pay attention to this because there's attention to this because there's attention to this because there's something happening and this will be something happening and this will be something happening and this will be temporary and there's opportunity temporary and there's opportunity temporary and there's opportunity >> when Bitcoin as an asset is either >> when Bitcoin as an asset is either >> when Bitcoin as an asset is either declining or just stagnant for months declining or just stagnant for months declining or just stagnant for months and years on end. You can make the and years on end. You can make the and years on end. You can make the identical video, you can make the identical video, you can make the identical video, you can make the identical post and people are like, identical post and people are like, identical post and people are like, "Yeah, yeah, we're not really interested "Yeah, yeah, we're not really interested "Yeah, yeah, we're not really interested in that right now." And so that is also in that right now." And so that is also in that right now." And so that is also true for social media. We see that with true for social media. We see that with true for social media. We see that with the content that we make. We'll be like the content that we make. We'll be like the content that we make. We'll be like the state of social media like it'll be the state of social media like it'll be the state of social media like it'll be interesting to see how this post interesting to see how this post interesting to see how this post performs. This is kind of like a one big performs. This is kind of like a one big performs. This is kind of like a one big video for the year. Said post, I meant video for the year. Said post, I meant video for the year. Said post, I meant video for the year. video for the year. video for the year. >> But when we used to do posts on like >> But when we used to do posts on like >> But when we used to do posts on like videos when we did videos on five videos when we did videos on five videos when we did videos on five Instagram techniques and we would do a Instagram techniques and we would do a Instagram techniques and we would do a whole podcast on them, whole podcast on them, whole podcast on them, >> people were like, "Yes, what are all the >> people were like, "Yes, what are all the >> people were like, "Yes, what are all the Instagram techniques more? We could do Instagram techniques more? We could do Instagram techniques more? We could do one today." And my sense based on like one today." And my sense based on like one today." And my sense based on like what we have seen from all of you what we have seen from all of you what we have seen from all of you listening and watching is like I'm a listening and watching is like I'm a listening and watching is like I'm a little less enthusiastic to listen to little less enthusiastic to listen to little less enthusiastic to listen to strategies for Instagram because I feel strategies for Instagram because I feel strategies for Instagram because I feel like the opportunity just doesn't exist like the opportunity just doesn't exist like the opportunity just doesn't exist in the same way. You might not think of in the same way. You might not think of in the same way. You might not think of that as a conscious thought, but that's that as a conscious thought, but that's that as a conscious thought, but that's like the underlying reality.

like the underlying reality. like the underlying reality. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So, what's >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So, what's >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So, what's coming next? Will anything come next? coming next? Will anything come next? coming next? Will anything come next? >> Reads to be seen. >> Reads to be seen. >> Reads to be seen. >> We will let you know. You can tune in >> We will let you know. You can tune in >> We will let you know. You can tune in here to find out. Thanks as [music] here to find out. Thanks as [music] here to find out. Thanks as [music] always for your time, attention, and always for your time, attention, and always for your time, attention, and trust. We will talk to you next week. trust. We will talk to you next week. trust. We will talk to you next week. Test one, two. Is it always yellow like Test one, two. Is it always yellow like Test one, two. Is it always yellow like that? Test one, two. I don't know. I'm that? Test one, two. I don't know. I'm that? Test one, two. I don't know. I'm never looking at it. never looking at it. never looking at it. I saw that out of the corner of my eye. I saw that out of the corner of my eye. I saw that out of the corner of my eye. I was like, why [music] is it like that? I was like, why [music] is it like that? I was like, why [music] is it like that? I think like the it's only showing I think like the it's only showing I think like the it's only showing yellow and red. It's not showing any of yellow and red. It's not showing any of yellow and red. It's not showing any of the green. [music] the green. [music] the green. [music] >> Yeah, maybe the green pixels died. >> Yeah, maybe the green pixels died. >> Yeah, maybe the green pixels died. >> It just like died. It's not hitting the >> It just like died. It's not hitting the >> It just like died. It's not hitting the red, though. red, though. red, though. >> No, we should be good. >> No, we should be good. >> No, we should be good. >> Well, yeah, like it's Well, there is the >> Well, yeah, like it's Well, there is the >> Well, yeah, like it's Well, there is the red. Is that the gate? red. Is that the gate? red. Is that the gate? If this episode was lost. If this episode was lost. If this episode was lost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, it's really faint. >> Yeah. Oh, it's really faint. >> Yeah. Oh, it's really faint. Interesting.