Instagram Confirms Big Algorithm Changes [Important]

Instagram has confirmed some massive Instagram has confirmed some massive platform changes in the recent weeks and platform changes in the recent weeks and platform changes in the recent weeks and these changes affect everyone. So, what these changes affect everyone. So, what these changes affect everyone. So, what do we do? We're here to break down what do we do? We're here to break down what do we do? We're here to break down what you need to know about the algorithm you need to know about the algorithm you need to know about the algorithm along with a few changes that you can along with a few changes that you can along with a few changes that you can consider in response. Let's dive in. consider in response. Let's dive in. consider in response. Let's dive in. >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the >> Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. We call him Father always by my co-host. We call him Father always by my co-host. We call him Father fullback. It's Alexander Mills. fullback. It's Alexander Mills. fullback. It's Alexander Mills. >> Hello. Hello. And today we're talking >> Hello. Hello. And today we're talking >> Hello. Hello. And today we're talking about the sweeping changes that are about the sweeping changes that are about the sweeping changes that are taking place on Instagram and abroad. taking place on Instagram and abroad. taking place on Instagram and abroad. >> Other platforms seeing these changes as >> Other platforms seeing these changes as >> Other platforms seeing these changes as well. And you know it's always it's well. And you know it's always it's well. And you know it's always it's always great when Adam Meri, the head of always great when Adam Meri, the head of always great when Adam Meri, the head of Instagram comes into the replies on Instagram comes into the replies on Instagram comes into the replies on threads, does a Q&A session on the gram threads, does a Q&A session on the gram threads, does a Q&A session on the gram and answers the burning questions that and answers the burning questions that and answers the burning questions that we all have about these platforms and we all have about these platforms and we all have about these platforms and about the state of social media. So, a about the state of social media. So, a about the state of social media. So, a person asked on threads a couple of person asked on threads a couple of person asked on threads a couple of weeks ago, less of a request, more of an weeks ago, less of a request, more of an weeks ago, less of a request, more of an exasperated declaration. exasperated declaration. exasperated declaration. They said like, "Please, Instagram, I They said like, "Please, Instagram, I They said like, "Please, Instagram, I just want to reach my followers. It's just want to reach my followers. It's just want to reach my followers. It's okay if I don't reach a bunch of new okay if I don't reach a bunch of new okay if I don't reach a bunch of new people. Please, let me just reach my people. Please, let me just reach my people. Please, let me just reach my followers." And here is what inst uh followers." And here is what inst uh followers." And here is what inst uh Instagram head of Instagram, Adami, Instagram head of Instagram, Adami, Instagram head of Instagram, Adami, responded with. Quote, "It's the hardest responded with. Quote, "It's the hardest responded with. Quote, "It's the hardest thing for us. We want creators to reach thing for us. We want creators to reach thing for us. We want creators to reach as many people as possible, but there is as many people as possible, but there is as many people as possible, but there is way more content that the average person way more content that the average person way more content that the average person could see each day, even just looking at could see each day, even just looking at could see each day, even just looking at content from accounts they follow, than content from accounts they follow, than content from accounts they follow, than they have time for.

they have time for. they have time for. >> Some don't open the app every day. >> Some don't open the app every day. >> Some don't open the app every day. Others don't scroll in their feed. Others don't scroll in their feed. Others don't scroll in their feed. Others don't scroll very far. People Others don't scroll very far. People Others don't scroll very far. People blame ranking, but ranking meaningfully blame ranking, but ranking meaningfully blame ranking, but ranking meaningfully increases the amount of content people increases the amount of content people increases the amount of content people see, in turn, significantly increasing see, in turn, significantly increasing see, in turn, significantly increasing reach for the average creator. So what reach for the average creator. So what reach for the average creator. So what he's describing here is an imbalance he's describing here is an imbalance he's describing here is an imbalance between supply and demand. between supply and demand. between supply and demand. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Basically, there was way more supply on >> Basically, there was way more supply on >> Basically, there was way more supply on Instagram than there is demand for that Instagram than there is demand for that Instagram than there is demand for that content. And it makes sense why we would content. And it makes sense why we would content. And it makes sense why we would have arrived at this place because have arrived at this place because have arrived at this place because >> in the pandemic, there was a lot more >> in the pandemic, there was a lot more >> in the pandemic, there was a lot more demand. demand. demand. >> But even pre- pandemic and coming out of >> But even pre- pandemic and coming out of >> But even pre- pandemic and coming out of the pandemic, there just weren't that the pandemic, there just weren't that the pandemic, there just weren't that many like creators on social media. many like creators on social media. many like creators on social media. >> Right. But everyone learned how to bake >> Right. But everyone learned how to bake >> Right. But everyone learned how to bake sourdough during the pandemic. And now sourdough during the pandemic. And now sourdough during the pandemic. And now we have a bunch of sourdough we have a bunch of sourdough we have a bunch of sourdough influencers. That's right. And we've influencers. That's right. And we've influencers. That's right. And we've have a whole generation now that has have a whole generation now that has have a whole generation now that has grown up on social media and is native grown up on social media and is native grown up on social media and is native to creating. They're all in their 20s to creating. They're all in their 20s to creating. They're all in their 20s now. A lot of them are aspiring to be now. A lot of them are aspiring to be now. A lot of them are aspiring to be influencers or creators in some respect influencers or creators in some respect influencers or creators in some respect as a side hustle or aligned woven into as a side hustle or aligned woven into as a side hustle or aligned woven into their job or vocation in some way. And their job or vocation in some way. And their job or vocation in some way. And suddenly there's all this supply and suddenly there's all this supply and suddenly there's all this supply and even if demand had just stayed stagnant, even if demand had just stayed stagnant, even if demand had just stayed stagnant, >> there's the imbalance. That's right. And >> there's the imbalance. That's right. And >> there's the imbalance. That's right. And so what Miseri is describing here is so what Miseri is describing here is so what Miseri is describing here is this person is asking, "Okay, I get it.

this person is asking, "Okay, I get it. this person is asking, "Okay, I get it. I just want to reach my followers." And I just want to reach my followers." And I just want to reach my followers." And he's saying, "Okay, open your Instagram he's saying, "Okay, open your Instagram he's saying, "Okay, open your Instagram right now, Alex." right now, Alex." right now, Alex." >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And tell me, how many people do you >> And tell me, how many people do you >> And tell me, how many people do you follow on Instagram? follow on Instagram? follow on Instagram? >> 421. >> 421. >> 421. >> I follow 427. >> I follow 427. >> I follow 427. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> That's true love right there. 427. Now, >> That's true love right there. 427. Now, >> That's true love right there. 427. Now, let's imagine that those 427 people were let's imagine that those 427 people were let's imagine that those 427 people were posting I'm not even going to say every posting I'm not even going to say every posting I'm not even going to say every day, day, day, >> right? I'm going to say every other day >> right? I'm going to say every other day >> right? I'm going to say every other day because some of those people are my because some of those people are my because some of those people are my friends and you know they're not using friends and you know they're not using friends and you know they're not using social as frequently but a lot of them social as frequently but a lot of them social as frequently but a lot of them are creators that I enjoy following. So are creators that I enjoy following. So are creators that I enjoy following. So let's say that's 200 rounding down new let's say that's 200 rounding down new let's say that's 200 rounding down new posts every single day. I am a heavy posts every single day. I am a heavy posts every single day. I am a heavy user of Instagram. I am confident that I user of Instagram. I am confident that I user of Instagram. I am confident that I do not see 200 new posts every single do not see 200 new posts every single do not see 200 new posts every single day. day. day. >> So what that means is if we restricted >> So what that means is if we restricted >> So what that means is if we restricted the algorithm to just people I follow, the algorithm to just people I follow, the algorithm to just people I follow, >> I wouldn't see their content. And what >> I wouldn't see their content. And what >> I wouldn't see their content. And what would happen is if it was shown would happen is if it was shown would happen is if it was shown chronologically is you would have a post chronologically is you would have a post chronologically is you would have a post that maybe got like very very little that maybe got like very very little that maybe got like very very little traction because as Miss is describing traction because as Miss is describing traction because as Miss is describing like people aren't opening the app every like people aren't opening the app every like people aren't opening the app every day. They're not scrolling every day in day. They're not scrolling every day in day. They're not scrolling every day in the feed. Maybe they're going straight the feed. Maybe they're going straight the feed. Maybe they're going straight to like DMs. We know how much messaging to like DMs. We know how much messaging to like DMs. We know how much messaging is a big part of Instagram. I can't tell is a big part of Instagram. I can't tell is a big part of Instagram. I can't tell you how often I open Instagram and swipe you how often I open Instagram and swipe you how often I open Instagram and swipe straight straight straight >> absolutely >> absolutely >> absolutely >> to the DMs. I'm not even scrolling in >> to the DMs. I'm not even scrolling in >> to the DMs. I'm not even scrolling in feed at all.

feed at all. feed at all. >> So what do you do then if you're a >> So what do you do then if you're a >> So what do you do then if you're a platform? Because people want to reach platform? Because people want to reach platform? Because people want to reach their followers and what Instagram has their followers and what Instagram has their followers and what Instagram has discovered and every platform has discovered and every platform has discovered and every platform has discovered this since the advent of discovered this since the advent of discovered this since the advent of discovery algorithms and ranking as discovery algorithms and ranking as discovery algorithms and ranking as distribution not just relationship. distribution not just relationship. distribution not just relationship. >> We have to look at positive signals and >> We have to look at positive signals and >> We have to look at positive signals and what you care about and your viewing what you care about and your viewing what you care about and your viewing habits and then create a personalized habits and then create a personalized habits and then create a personalized distribution feed for you. Otherwise, distribution feed for you. Otherwise, distribution feed for you. Otherwise, creators actually won't see anything in creators actually won't see anything in creators actually won't see anything in their metrics because the demand just their metrics because the demand just their metrics because the demand just isn't great enough to see distribution isn't great enough to see distribution isn't great enough to see distribution at scale in that way. I appreciate Adam at scale in that way. I appreciate Adam at scale in that way. I appreciate Adam Miseri so much on threads and on Miseri so much on threads and on Miseri so much on threads and on Instagram because he seems to have the Instagram because he seems to have the Instagram because he seems to have the courage to like really pull back the courage to like really pull back the courage to like really pull back the curtain and answer people's like pointed curtain and answer people's like pointed curtain and answer people's like pointed questions very openly and very honestly. questions very openly and very honestly. questions very openly and very honestly. And what we get from this interaction is And what we get from this interaction is And what we get from this interaction is this insight when and and it's not just this insight when and and it's not just this insight when and and it's not just restricted to social or Instagram, but restricted to social or Instagram, but restricted to social or Instagram, but like it it happens often where a user of like it it happens often where a user of like it it happens often where a user of something, a consumer of something has a something, a consumer of something has a something, a consumer of something has a very strong opinion about how the very strong opinion about how the very strong opinion about how the platform should work, how the product platform should work, how the product platform should work, how the product should should um should exist and they should should um should exist and they should should um should exist and they have a very strong opinion that is have a very strong opinion that is have a very strong opinion that is centered on their desires. Yet the centered on their desires. Yet the centered on their desires. Yet the actual reasons why the platform works actual reasons why the platform works actual reasons why the platform works this way or the product is this way is this way or the product is this way is this way or the product is this way is because of all the insight that the because of all the insight that the because of all the insight that the creators of the product or the platform creators of the product or the platform creators of the product or the platform actually have. And so here we have Adam actually have. And so here we have Adam actually have. And so here we have Adam saying like I hear you, but what you are saying like I hear you, but what you are saying like I hear you, but what you are probably not considering is this supply probably not considering is this supply probably not considering is this supply versus demand thing that there is too versus demand thing that there is too versus demand thing that there is too much content to just show it this way.

much content to just show it this way. much content to just show it this way. So we have to do it this way and it So we have to do it this way and it So we have to do it this way and it actually um is advantageous to you as a actually um is advantageous to you as a actually um is advantageous to you as a creator for us to do this and this is creator for us to do this and this is creator for us to do this and this is the reason why. So, you know, this this the reason why. So, you know, this this the reason why. So, you know, this this question from this user on threads is question from this user on threads is question from this user on threads is the pain point that not just creators the pain point that not just creators the pain point that not just creators feel, but certainly churches feel. So, feel, but certainly churches feel. So, feel, but certainly churches feel. So, how does this intersect with what how does this intersect with what how does this intersect with what churches are trying to accomplish on churches are trying to accomplish on churches are trying to accomplish on Instagram in particular? Instagram in particular? Instagram in particular? >> Well, you know, if you are a church, you >> Well, you know, if you are a church, you >> Well, you know, if you are a church, you surely are familiar with the dynamic surely are familiar with the dynamic surely are familiar with the dynamic that Alex is describing because people that Alex is describing because people that Alex is describing because people have come up to you after service and be have come up to you after service and be have come up to you after service and be like, you know what we should really do, like, you know what we should really do, like, you know what we should really do, pastor? We should do this. pastor? We should do this. pastor? We should do this. >> That's exactly it. >> That's exactly it. >> That's exactly it. >> Or they'll criticize what you're doing. >> Or they'll criticize what you're doing. >> Or they'll criticize what you're doing. like why are you doing it this way when like why are you doing it this way when like why are you doing it this way when it would obviously be superior if you it would obviously be superior if you it would obviously be superior if you did it this way and you're like yes I did it this way and you're like yes I did it this way and you're like yes I understand on the surface like there's understand on the surface like there's understand on the surface like there's merit to what you're saying but if we merit to what you're saying but if we merit to what you're saying but if we pull back the layers pull back the layers pull back the layers >> you would understand that we can't do it >> you would understand that we can't do it >> you would understand that we can't do it that way because there are these that way because there are these that way because there are these realities that exist same dynamic in realities that exist same dynamic in realities that exist same dynamic in terms of how this affects churches you terms of how this affects churches you terms of how this affects churches you know for years using social media to know for years using social media to know for years using social media to publish time-sensitive updates was a publish time-sensitive updates was a publish time-sensitive updates was a priority for churches because it was a priority for churches because it was a priority for churches because it was a way to disseminate information to the way to disseminate information to the way to disseminate information to the people that needed it most. people that needed it most. people that needed it most. >> This is back in the chronological feed >> This is back in the chronological feed >> This is back in the chronological feed days. Yeah, and we're going to get into days. Yeah, and we're going to get into days. Yeah, and we're going to get into like actual steps that you can take here like actual steps that you can take here like actual steps that you can take here as a church, but this is why we discuss as a church, but this is why we discuss as a church, but this is why we discuss the phenomenon the no promo code, which the phenomenon the no promo code, which the phenomenon the no promo code, which is if we understand the ranking signals is if we understand the ranking signals is if we understand the ranking signals of the algorithm to be as important as of the algorithm to be as important as of the algorithm to be as important as they are and really the gatekeepers to they are and really the gatekeepers to they are and really the gatekeepers to whether people see our content or not, whether people see our content or not, whether people see our content or not, we have to understand the behavior of we have to understand the behavior of we have to understand the behavior of users and align with that. If we users and align with that. If we users and align with that. If we purposefully create content that is purposefully create content that is purposefully create content that is antithetical to the desires of the antithetical to the desires of the antithetical to the desires of the platform, which are really just a proxy platform, which are really just a proxy platform, which are really just a proxy for the desires of the users, for the desires of the users, for the desires of the users, >> then we can't then look at our metrics

>> then we can't then look at our metrics >> then we can't then look at our metrics and say like, ah, why are they not and say like, ah, why are they not and say like, ah, why are they not working the way we want them to? Now, working the way we want them to? Now, working the way we want them to? Now, the reality is, and this is the the reality is, and this is the the reality is, and this is the discouraging part of this cycle, is that discouraging part of this cycle, is that discouraging part of this cycle, is that you can do everything right and still you can do everything right and still you can do everything right and still see performance in a decline relative to see performance in a decline relative to see performance in a decline relative to maybe two years ago. maybe two years ago. maybe two years ago. >> Yeah. And we're seeing this with our own >> Yeah. And we're seeing this with our own >> Yeah. And we're seeing this with our own content where the exact same creative content where the exact same creative content where the exact same creative effort, even effort, even effort, even >> improved creative effort in our content >> improved creative effort in our content >> improved creative effort in our content is not producing the same outcomes as is not producing the same outcomes as is not producing the same outcomes as predictably as before. predictably as before. predictably as before. >> And this is kind of like just the life >> And this is kind of like just the life >> And this is kind of like just the life cycle of social platforms. Um, it's the cycle of social platforms. Um, it's the cycle of social platforms. Um, it's the life cycle of many industries. We see life cycle of many industries. We see life cycle of many industries. We see this with supply and demand in real this with supply and demand in real this with supply and demand in real estate, right? You hear about a buyer estate, right? You hear about a buyer estate, right? You hear about a buyer market or a sellers market. It's the market or a sellers market. It's the market or a sellers market. It's the same thing. Another algorithm change same thing. Another algorithm change same thing. Another algorithm change that I wanted to highlight. Now, this that I wanted to highlight. Now, this that I wanted to highlight. Now, this change isn't so much a change, more change isn't so much a change, more change isn't so much a change, more as an acknowledgement of something we've as an acknowledgement of something we've as an acknowledgement of something we've believed to be true that now Instagram believed to be true that now Instagram believed to be true that now Instagram has said, "Yes, it's true, and here's has said, "Yes, it's true, and here's has said, "Yes, it's true, and here's why it's true." So, we're going to play why it's true." So, we're going to play why it's true." So, we're going to play this part of a Q&A with Adam Miseri, this part of a Q&A with Adam Miseri, this part of a Q&A with Adam Miseri, where he talks about the dangers and uh where he talks about the dangers and uh where he talks about the dangers and uh fallout of taking extended breaks on fallout of taking extended breaks on fallout of taking extended breaks on Instagram in terms of your church's Instagram in terms of your church's Instagram in terms of your church's publishing. It is true and we're trying publishing. It is true and we're trying publishing. It is true and we're trying to make it not so that if you don't post to make it not so that if you don't post to make it not so that if you don't post for a month or two, coming back in can for a month or two, coming back in can for a month or two, coming back in can be rough and that is not intentional.

be rough and that is not intentional. be rough and that is not intentional. That is a byproduct of the fact that we That is a byproduct of the fact that we That is a byproduct of the fact that we have less data after you've been gone have less data after you've been gone have less data after you've been gone for a month or two and we're trying to for a month or two and we're trying to for a month or two and we're trying to address that. But in general, I would address that. But in general, I would address that. But in general, I would try and experiment with different try and experiment with different try and experiment with different cadences and see what works for you. cadences and see what works for you. cadences and see what works for you. Anecdotally, this makes sense, Anecdotally, this makes sense, Anecdotally, this makes sense, especially in a landscape where supply especially in a landscape where supply especially in a landscape where supply is outpacing demand. If you have is outpacing demand. If you have is outpacing demand. If you have creators that are going to be creators that are going to be creators that are going to be inconsistent with their publishing and inconsistent with their publishing and inconsistent with their publishing and then you have other creators that are then you have other creators that are then you have other creators that are diligent in showing up with that no diligent in showing up with that no diligent in showing up with that no weeks off approach that we suggest for weeks off approach that we suggest for weeks off approach that we suggest for churches and again no days off is not churches and again no days off is not churches and again no days off is not necessary. No weeks off. In this same necessary. No weeks off. In this same necessary. No weeks off. In this same Q&A that we'll have linked in the show Q&A that we'll have linked in the show Q&A that we'll have linked in the show notes that has other questions people notes that has other questions people notes that has other questions people ask about posting frequency and Harry ask about posting frequency and Harry ask about posting frequency and Harry says he's look look says he's look look says he's look look >> there's no hard and fast rule for this. >> there's no hard and fast rule for this. >> there's no hard and fast rule for this. Some creators multiple times a day is Some creators multiple times a day is Some creators multiple times a day is ideal. Other creators a couple times a ideal. Other creators a couple times a ideal. Other creators a couple times a week is ideal. What is your industry? week is ideal. What is your industry? week is ideal. What is your industry? What is your audience like? And so for What is your audience like? And so for What is your audience like? And so for churches, that no weeks off approach is churches, that no weeks off approach is churches, that no weeks off approach is critical. 2, three, four times a week. critical. 2, three, four times a week. critical. 2, three, four times a week. Great. Settle in there. You don't need Great. Settle in there. You don't need Great. Settle in there. You don't need to be posting every single day. But it's to be posting every single day. But it's to be posting every single day. But it's these extended breaks of weeks that will these extended breaks of weeks that will these extended breaks of weeks that will reset your distribution. Why? Not reset your distribution. Why? Not reset your distribution. Why? Not necessarily. Interestingly, as necessarily. Interestingly, as necessarily. Interestingly, as describing, describing, describing, >> this is not intentional, >> this is not intentional, >> this is not intentional, >> right? It's like, you know, ideally it >> right? It's like, you know, ideally it >> right? It's like, you know, ideally it wouldn't be this way. If we're living in wouldn't be this way. If we're living in wouldn't be this way. If we're living in the world of a ranking algorithm the world of a ranking algorithm the world of a ranking algorithm >> and you disappear, >> and you disappear, >> and you disappear, >> the ranking algorithm demands data to >> the ranking algorithm demands data to >> the ranking algorithm demands data to determine distribution. We're looking at determine distribution. We're looking at determine distribution. We're looking at these positive signals between what these positive signals between what these positive signals between what you're doing and how users are you're doing and how users are you're doing and how users are interacting with your publishing. If you interacting with your publishing. If you interacting with your publishing. If you don't have any data, don't have any data, don't have any data, >> then you are going to be downgraded >> then you are going to be downgraded >> then you are going to be downgraded because like we can't predictably serve because like we can't predictably serve because like we can't predictably serve content that we know users will be happy content that we know users will be happy content that we know users will be happy about. And at the end of the day, that's about. And at the end of the day, that's about. And at the end of the day, that's the job of the algorithm.

the job of the algorithm. the job of the algorithm. >> It's that same thing, right? Like >> It's that same thing, right? Like >> It's that same thing, right? Like there's been this sentiment from folks there's been this sentiment from folks there's been this sentiment from folks who aren't consistent with their who aren't consistent with their who aren't consistent with their publishing and they feel that they're publishing and they feel that they're publishing and they feel that they're being punished. I I hear this phrase a being punished. I I hear this phrase a being punished. I I hear this phrase a lot like, "Oh, I'm being punished by the lot like, "Oh, I'm being punished by the lot like, "Oh, I'm being punished by the algorithm for A, B, and C." And and what algorithm for A, B, and C." And and what algorithm for A, B, and C." And and what the actual truth is if we believe the actual truth is if we believe the actual truth is if we believe admissary, which I happen to, he's admissary, which I happen to, he's admissary, which I happen to, he's saying like, is it's like, no, we're not saying like, is it's like, no, we're not saying like, is it's like, no, we're not intentionally punishing you. This is intentionally punishing you. This is intentionally punishing you. This is just like a data disparity. We just just like a data disparity. We just just like a data disparity. We just don't have enough from you to prioritize don't have enough from you to prioritize don't have enough from you to prioritize you properly. And so that's why we've you properly. And so that's why we've you properly. And so that's why we've been saying for years now, the ideal been saying for years now, the ideal been saying for years now, the ideal posting schedule for churches, not just posting schedule for churches, not just posting schedule for churches, not just churches, but creators in general, is to churches, but creators in general, is to churches, but creators in general, is to take do whatever you can to take no take do whatever you can to take no take do whatever you can to take no weeks off and post high quality content weeks off and post high quality content weeks off and post high quality content once a week if that's all you can once a week if that's all you can once a week if that's all you can muster, but don't take any weeks off. muster, but don't take any weeks off. muster, but don't take any weeks off. And now thankfully Adam comes out and And now thankfully Adam comes out and And now thankfully Adam comes out and and basically affirms what we've been and basically affirms what we've been and basically affirms what we've been saying which is like yes this is saying which is like yes this is saying which is like yes this is this is how this ranking system works this is how this ranking system works this is how this ranking system works and acknowledging that we're trying to and acknowledging that we're trying to and acknowledging that we're trying to make improvements in this area so that make improvements in this area so that make improvements in this area so that you know there isn't this this um you know there isn't this this um you know there isn't this this um fallout or punishment but the way it is fallout or punishment but the way it is fallout or punishment but the way it is right now post consistently highquality right now post consistently highquality right now post consistently highquality content and that will keep you in the content and that will keep you in the content and that will keep you in the good graces of this ranking system. And good graces of this ranking system. And good graces of this ranking system. And to be clear, I am very skeptical that to be clear, I am very skeptical that to be clear, I am very skeptical that they would be able to put in measures they would be able to put in measures they would be able to put in measures that allow you to take extended breaks that allow you to take extended breaks that allow you to take extended breaks >> and it not affect distribution. I I I >> and it not affect distribution. I I I >> and it not affect distribution. I I I think that they say we're trying to make think that they say we're trying to make think that they say we're trying to make it not so I it not so I it not so I >> when I see it, I'll believe it. But >> when I see it, I'll believe it. But >> when I see it, I'll believe it. But color me very very skeptical.

color me very very skeptical. color me very very skeptical. >> I mean it's a content platform, right? >> I mean it's a content platform, right? >> I mean it's a content platform, right? They don't want you just to consume. They don't want you just to consume. They don't want you just to consume. They want you to create also. So they're They want you to create also. So they're They want you to create also. So they're going to prioritize like hey like post going to prioritize like hey like post going to prioritize like hey like post high quality stuff on here. high quality stuff on here. high quality stuff on here. >> Yeah. Every call I have with a church I >> Yeah. Every call I have with a church I >> Yeah. Every call I have with a church I had one with a pastor yesterday. I said had one with a pastor yesterday. I said had one with a pastor yesterday. I said I'm like, "Hey, this no weeks off rhythm I'm like, "Hey, this no weeks off rhythm I'm like, "Hey, this no weeks off rhythm is what matters the most because for us is what matters the most because for us is what matters the most because for us to see posts that are outliers that to see posts that are outliers that to see posts that are outliers that introduce your church to new people and introduce your church to new people and introduce your church to new people and for those posts to welcome in new for those posts to welcome in new for those posts to welcome in new followers that then allow us to grow followers that then allow us to grow followers that then allow us to grow that then enable these crossover events that then enable these crossover events that then enable these crossover events where in person is being invaded by where in person is being invaded by where in person is being invaded by online and the efforts that we're um online and the efforts that we're um online and the efforts that we're um expending there like we have to be expending there like we have to be expending there like we have to be showing up week after week. It's this showing up week after week. It's this showing up week after week. It's this singular non-negotiable of social." And singular non-negotiable of social." And singular non-negotiable of social." And I said, "Look, imagine you had Sunday I said, "Look, imagine you had Sunday I said, "Look, imagine you had Sunday services for 3 months and you took a services for 3 months and you took a services for 3 months and you took a month or two off, you know, oh yeah, no month or two off, you know, oh yeah, no month or two off, you know, oh yeah, no Sunday services." And then you came Sunday services." And then you came Sunday services." And then you came back, well, Sunday services are back on. back, well, Sunday services are back on. back, well, Sunday services are back on. Like that would be an that would be no Like that would be an that would be no Like that would be an that would be no way to build a church because you way to build a church because you way to build a church because you wouldn't have these habitual rhythms wouldn't have these habitual rhythms wouldn't have these habitual rhythms with the congregation. And the same is with the congregation. And the same is with the congregation. And the same is true for social the ranking algorithm. true for social the ranking algorithm. true for social the ranking algorithm. The signals that they look at often are The signals that they look at often are The signals that they look at often are how are you, the creator, in connection how are you, the creator, in connection how are you, the creator, in connection or relationship with this specific user?

or relationship with this specific user? or relationship with this specific user? Oh, that specific user liked your post Oh, that specific user liked your post Oh, that specific user liked your post the last time you published. Okay, the last time you published. Okay, the last time you published. Okay, guaranteed we're going to show your next guaranteed we're going to show your next guaranteed we're going to show your next one to that person as well. And so if one to that person as well. And so if one to that person as well. And so if that data disappears that data disappears that data disappears >> now where is the relationship you have a >> now where is the relationship you have a >> now where is the relationship you have a relationship with nobody relationship with nobody relationship with nobody >> in the last 3 6 9 12 weeks >> in the last 3 6 9 12 weeks >> in the last 3 6 9 12 weeks >> that history is gone. So what can we do >> that history is gone. So what can we do >> that history is gone. So what can we do if this is the new landscape? I think if this is the new landscape? I think if this is the new landscape? I think the first part is understanding the life the first part is understanding the life the first part is understanding the life cycle. Okay, this is the down part of cycle. Okay, this is the down part of cycle. Okay, this is the down part of social. This has happened two, three, social. This has happened two, three, social. This has happened two, three, four, five times in social media's four, five times in social media's four, five times in social media's history where there's just this history where there's just this history where there's just this saturation with the current state of saturation with the current state of saturation with the current state of things. Every time this happens, things. Every time this happens, things. Every time this happens, innovation follows. That's right. innovation follows. That's right. innovation follows. That's right. >> And these new opportunities arise. We >> And these new opportunities arise. We >> And these new opportunities arise. We can never predict when that's going to can never predict when that's going to can never predict when that's going to happen or how it's going to happen. When happen or how it's going to happen. When happen or how it's going to happen. When it does, I promise you, we will be on it does, I promise you, we will be on it does, I promise you, we will be on this show shouting it and saying, this show shouting it and saying, this show shouting it and saying, "Please go to this platform." We did it "Please go to this platform." We did it "Please go to this platform." We did it with Tik Tok in 2018. And and and what with Tik Tok in 2018. And and and what with Tik Tok in 2018. And and and what was like the initial response? Like, ah, was like the initial response? Like, ah, was like the initial response? Like, ah, that's just a dancing platform. I'm that's just a dancing platform. I'm that's just a dancing platform. I'm like, how do you publish there? You open like, how do you publish there? You open like, how do you publish there? You open up the feed. This is not what social up the feed. This is not what social up the feed. This is not what social media is. Social media does not look media is. Social media does not look media is. Social media does not look like this. And there were years where like this. And there were years where like this. And there were years where churches did not take that seriously.

churches did not take that seriously. churches did not take that seriously. And then what happened was it was such a And then what happened was it was such a And then what happened was it was such a pervasive new way of doing social that pervasive new way of doing social that pervasive new way of doing social that it was copied and pasted into every it was copied and pasted into every it was copied and pasted into every single platform. And now single platform. And now single platform. And now >> that Tik Tok experience is not just an >> that Tik Tok experience is not just an >> that Tik Tok experience is not just an experience that you'll find on other experience that you'll find on other experience that you'll find on other platforms. It is the default experience. platforms. It is the default experience. platforms. It is the default experience. And so the reason I say that is not to And so the reason I say that is not to And so the reason I say that is not to say like, "Hey, every church, you should say like, "Hey, every church, you should say like, "Hey, every church, you should have been on TikTok." Because there were have been on TikTok." Because there were have been on TikTok." Because there were other considerations that went along other considerations that went along other considerations that went along with Tik Tok. But what will happen is with Tik Tok. But what will happen is with Tik Tok. But what will happen is innovation will occur. It will look innovation will occur. It will look innovation will occur. It will look different than what you're used to. Most different than what you're used to. Most different than what you're used to. Most people will write it off for that people will write it off for that people will write it off for that reason. reason. reason. >> They will assign the difference to some >> They will assign the difference to some >> They will assign the difference to some type of like negative moral trait type of like negative moral trait type of like negative moral trait >> and then the opportunity will exist >> and then the opportunity will exist >> and then the opportunity will exist because not everyone will go over there because not everyone will go over there because not everyone will go over there >> and we'll repeat this cycle. So there's >> and we'll repeat this cycle. So there's >> and we'll repeat this cycle. So there's plenty of opportunity that will be plenty of opportunity that will be plenty of opportunity that will be coming. Right now what do we do? First coming. Right now what do we do? First coming. Right now what do we do? First thing you can do is publish higher thing you can do is publish higher thing you can do is publish higher quality content. So if you imagine that quality content. So if you imagine that quality content. So if you imagine that there is this greater supply than the there is this greater supply than the there is this greater supply than the demand is asking for, how do you like demand is asking for, how do you like demand is asking for, how do you like rise above? And I want to show you a rise above? And I want to show you a rise above? And I want to show you a video on the screen. And we're not going video on the screen. And we're not going video on the screen. And we're not going to play the audio, but if you're seeing to play the audio, but if you're seeing to play the audio, but if you're seeing it right now, I'll describe it for those it right now, I'll describe it for those it right now, I'll describe it for those listening. This was a real that was listening. This was a real that was listening. This was a real that was created by a chef. And lots of content created by a chef. And lots of content created by a chef. And lots of content exists in the world of cooking, right?

exists in the world of cooking, right? exists in the world of cooking, right? This chef particularly made this like This chef particularly made this like This chef particularly made this like amazing cinematic video where he took amazing cinematic video where he took amazing cinematic video where he took this like potato and turned it into like this like potato and turned it into like this like potato and turned it into like this like crazy dish. And it's just like this like crazy dish. And it's just like this like crazy dish. And it's just like unlike most videos you'll see. And a unlike most videos you'll see. And a unlike most videos you'll see. And a person asked him in the comments, they person asked him in the comments, they person asked him in the comments, they said, "How how long does this take?" said, "How how long does this take?" said, "How how long does this take?" He's like 6 hours of filming, 20 hours He's like 6 hours of filming, 20 hours He's like 6 hours of filming, 20 hours of editing. Because it was just like of editing. Because it was just like of editing. Because it was just like this monster. And so if you're that this monster. And so if you're that this monster. And so if you're that person and you are creating that much, person and you are creating that much, person and you are creating that much, what are the desired results? Okay, you what are the desired results? Okay, you what are the desired results? Okay, you can only create that video once a week, can only create that video once a week, can only create that video once a week, once every two weeks, once a month, but once every two weeks, once a month, but once every two weeks, once a month, but it's going to do such big numbers it's going to do such big numbers it's going to do such big numbers >> that we're going to talk about it on >> that we're going to talk about it on >> that we're going to talk about it on this church social show. this church social show. this church social show. >> And in the aggregate, you're publishing >> And in the aggregate, you're publishing >> And in the aggregate, you're publishing fewer posts, but the quality is so much fewer posts, but the quality is so much fewer posts, but the quality is so much greater that your results in the greater that your results in the greater that your results in the aggregate are better than they were aggregate are better than they were aggregate are better than they were before. So, that's like one side of the before. So, that's like one side of the before. So, that's like one side of the spectrum. The other side of the spectrum spectrum. The other side of the spectrum spectrum. The other side of the spectrum is increasing quantity. And the perfect is increasing quantity. And the perfect is increasing quantity. And the perfect example of this is someone like uh Alex example of this is someone like uh Alex example of this is someone like uh Alex Hermoszi or a Russell Brunson or even Hermoszi or a Russell Brunson or even Hermoszi or a Russell Brunson or even Sean Kel, you know, our friend over at Sean Kel, you know, our friend over at Sean Kel, you know, our friend over at Think Media. These creators that are Think Media. These creators that are Think Media. These creators that are just ubiquitous on every platform and just ubiquitous on every platform and just ubiquitous on every platform and they're publishing so much content. The they're publishing so much content. The they're publishing so much content. The volume is just massive.

volume is just massive. volume is just massive. >> It's not low quality though. >> It's not low quality though. >> It's not low quality though. >> No, it's not low quality. But >> No, it's not low quality. But >> No, it's not low quality. But interestingly, if you look into any one interestingly, if you look into any one interestingly, if you look into any one of their individual posts, it's always a of their individual posts, it's always a of their individual posts, it's always a bit stark because you look at their bit stark because you look at their bit stark because you look at their followers and you'll be like, "Okay, followers and you'll be like, "Okay, followers and you'll be like, "Okay, there's like seven figures of there's like seven figures of there's like seven figures of followers." And then you look at the followers." And then you look at the followers." And then you look at the numbers and you're like, "Oh, those numbers and you're like, "Oh, those numbers and you're like, "Oh, those engagement and view numbers are not that engagement and view numbers are not that engagement and view numbers are not that much." You're like, "They must be doing much." You're like, "They must be doing much." You're like, "They must be doing something wrong." But then it's like no something wrong." But then it's like no something wrong." But then it's like no matter what platform you go to, they're matter what platform you go to, they're matter what platform you go to, they're there. there. there. >> Yeah. It's just a different strategy. >> Yeah. It's just a different strategy. >> Yeah. It's just a different strategy. >> Exactly. And so when you look at the >> Exactly. And so when you look at the >> Exactly. And so when you look at the aggregate numbers for them, they're aggregate numbers for them, they're aggregate numbers for them, they're playing the volume game where they're playing the volume game where they're playing the volume game where they're not really counting on any singular post not really counting on any singular post not really counting on any singular post to drive all the results. They're to drive all the results. They're to drive all the results. They're saying, "We're just going to keep having saying, "We're just going to keep having saying, "We're just going to keep having all these at bats. You can't escape us. all these at bats. You can't escape us. all these at bats. You can't escape us. >> Strike out. Strike out. Strike out. >> Strike out. Strike out. Strike out. >> Strike out. Strike out. Strike out. Bunt, single, single, double. Oh my Bunt, single, single, double. Oh my Bunt, single, single, double. Oh my goodness, we ended up having more runs goodness, we ended up having more runs goodness, we ended up having more runs than the other team yet again." Yeah. than the other team yet again." Yeah. than the other team yet again." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so that's an approach that you can >> And so that's an approach that you can >> And so that's an approach that you can take. And then of course, like those are take. And then of course, like those are take. And then of course, like those are the two extreme ends of the spectrum. the two extreme ends of the spectrum. the two extreme ends of the spectrum. There's some hybrid measure where you There's some hybrid measure where you There's some hybrid measure where you can look and say, "Okay, my church is can look and say, "Okay, my church is can look and say, "Okay, my church is publishing three times a week. What I'm publishing three times a week. What I'm publishing three times a week. What I'm going to do is push that to four or five going to do is push that to four or five going to do is push that to four or five and we're going to work to improve the and we're going to work to improve the and we're going to work to improve the quality of every post 20 to 30% over the quality of every post 20 to 30% over the quality of every post 20 to 30% over the next year." And then combined that will next year." And then combined that will next year." And then combined that will help raise your distribution profile. help raise your distribution profile. help raise your distribution profile. >> I was talking with the church um last >> I was talking with the church um last >> I was talking with the church um last week. We were reviewing their first 60 week. We were reviewing their first 60 week. We were reviewing their first 60 days of working together at social days of working together at social days of working together at social sermons and this pastor was saying, sermons and this pastor was saying, sermons and this pastor was saying, "Hey, we are not seeing like our per "Hey, we are not seeing like our per "Hey, we are not seeing like our per post like they're not like going crazy."

post like they're not like going crazy." post like they're not like going crazy." And I was like, "You're right, but if we And I was like, "You're right, but if we And I was like, "You're right, but if we look at the aggregate numbers over these look at the aggregate numbers over these look at the aggregate numbers over these 60 days, your impressions and views and 60 days, your impressions and views and 60 days, your impressions and views and engagement are up 100%." Because not any engagement are up 100%." Because not any engagement are up 100%." Because not any single post is doing any crazy amount, single post is doing any crazy amount, single post is doing any crazy amount, but what we're seeing is in the but what we're seeing is in the but what we're seeing is in the aggregate the numbers are greater. We aggregate the numbers are greater. We aggregate the numbers are greater. We used to talk about viral for me posts used to talk about viral for me posts used to talk about viral for me posts >> the objective being 3 to 5% of the >> the objective being 3 to 5% of the >> the objective being 3 to 5% of the overall post that you publish hitting overall post that you publish hitting overall post that you publish hitting that threshold. Viral for me being 10x that threshold. Viral for me being 10x that threshold. Viral for me being 10x the uh distribution of a normal post of the uh distribution of a normal post of the uh distribution of a normal post of yours. So if you're normally getting yours. So if you're normally getting yours. So if you're normally getting like 200 views per reel, a 2,000 views like 200 views per reel, a 2,000 views like 200 views per reel, a 2,000 views per reel would be a viral for you post. per reel would be a viral for you post. per reel would be a viral for you post. And take that multiplier and put it on And take that multiplier and put it on And take that multiplier and put it on you. you. you. >> 3 to 5% is a bit unrealistic in today's >> 3 to 5% is a bit unrealistic in today's >> 3 to 5% is a bit unrealistic in today's landscape. Why? Because of the supply landscape. Why? Because of the supply landscape. Why? Because of the supply and demand. and demand. and demand. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's just the realist um part of >> Yeah. That's just the realist um part of >> Yeah. That's just the realist um part of me. So we're talking now like you know a me. So we're talking now like you know a me. So we're talking now like you know a tenth of that like.3 to.5% or like you tenth of that like.3 to.5% or like you tenth of that like.3 to.5% or like you know.5 to 1.5% we're kind of in that know.5 to 1.5% we're kind of in that know.5 to 1.5% we're kind of in that area. And so what that means is like you area. And so what that means is like you area. And so what that means is like you just aren't going to be able to grow as just aren't going to be able to grow as just aren't going to be able to grow as fast. But if we increase the quantity fast. But if we increase the quantity fast. But if we increase the quantity and we increase the quality and it can and we increase the quality and it can and we increase the quality and it can be like whatever you think like if be like whatever you think like if be like whatever you think like if you're more of a quantity person go for you're more of a quantity person go for you're more of a quantity person go for it. If you're more of a quality person it. If you're more of a quality person it. If you're more of a quality person go there. Whatever kind of the ratio is go there. Whatever kind of the ratio is go there. Whatever kind of the ratio is between the two. we can in the aggregate between the two. we can in the aggregate between the two. we can in the aggregate improve our distribution and improve our improve our distribution and improve our improve our distribution and improve our numbers that way.

numbers that way. numbers that way. >> And back to to what we talked about >> And back to to what we talked about >> And back to to what we talked about earlier about the ranking system that earlier about the ranking system that earlier about the ranking system that serves to position you better in in the serves to position you better in in the serves to position you better in in the ranking system, right? If you increase ranking system, right? If you increase ranking system, right? If you increase your your quality or pardon me, your your your quality or pardon me, your your your quality or pardon me, your quantity, you're posting more often and quantity, you're posting more often and quantity, you're posting more often and and maybe they're not regularly going and maybe they're not regularly going and maybe they're not regularly going off, but like folks are regularly off, but like folks are regularly off, but like folks are regularly engaging with them, that positions you engaging with them, that positions you engaging with them, that positions you better in the ranking system for when a better in the ranking system for when a better in the ranking system for when a post does go viral for you. And we've post does go viral for you. And we've post does go viral for you. And we've talked about it so many times on the talked about it so many times on the talked about it so many times on the show in this context. Um, for churches, show in this context. Um, for churches, show in this context. Um, for churches, the point is not going viral for viral the point is not going viral for viral the point is not going viral for viral sake. The point is we're sharing the sake. The point is we're sharing the sake. The point is we're sharing the greatest story ever told that holds what greatest story ever told that holds what greatest story ever told that holds what we believe to be salvation, right? Like we believe to be salvation, right? Like we believe to be salvation, right? Like like saving power. And so the point to like saving power. And so the point to like saving power. And so the point to go viral is to share this message that go viral is to share this message that go viral is to share this message that we tell of Jesus with more people than we tell of Jesus with more people than we tell of Jesus with more people than we could ever imagine. The point for a we could ever imagine. The point for a we could ever imagine. The point for a chef is to maybe get more eyes on their chef is to maybe get more eyes on their chef is to maybe get more eyes on their side hustle. I was I I watched a video side hustle. I was I I watched a video side hustle. I was I I watched a video yesterday of a chef who um started on yesterday of a chef who um started on yesterday of a chef who um started on TikTok and now has like this sandwich TikTok and now has like this sandwich TikTok and now has like this sandwich shop in New York City that sells out shop in New York City that sells out shop in New York City that sells out every day and it's because he he figured every day and it's because he he figured every day and it's because he he figured out what he talks about it explicitly in out what he talks about it explicitly in out what he talks about it explicitly in this video. He figured out his formula this video. He figured out his formula this video. He figured out his formula for viral cooking videos. He spells it for viral cooking videos. He spells it for viral cooking videos. He spells it out exactly how how he can construct a out exactly how how he can construct a out exactly how how he can construct a viral cooking video. He did that for a viral cooking video. He did that for a viral cooking video. He did that for a few years and now that has his the the few years and now that has his the the few years and now that has his the the um ends to that that effort is now he's um ends to that that effort is now he's um ends to that that effort is now he's he's got this successful sandwich shop he's got this successful sandwich shop he's got this successful sandwich shop and that's great for him. But for and that's great for him. But for and that's great for him. But for churches, we're not just trying to go churches, we're not just trying to go churches, we're not just trying to go viral for viral sake. The point is we viral for viral sake. The point is we viral for viral sake. The point is we want to share this message of Jesus with want to share this message of Jesus with want to share this message of Jesus with a broader audience. And pursuing either a broader audience. And pursuing either a broader audience. And pursuing either one of these strategies or I guess

one of these strategies or I guess one of these strategies or I guess there's there's three, right? There's there's there's three, right? There's there's there's three, right? There's there's the higher quality on one end of there's the higher quality on one end of there's the higher quality on one end of the spectrum, there's higher um quantity the spectrum, there's higher um quantity the spectrum, there's higher um quantity on the other, and then there's this kind on the other, and then there's this kind on the other, and then there's this kind of middle ground of of trying to tend to of middle ground of of trying to tend to of middle ground of of trying to tend to both. I any of those strategies both. I any of those strategies both. I any of those strategies positions you has the potential to positions you has the potential to positions you has the potential to position you better in this ranking position you better in this ranking position you better in this ranking system that the head of Instagram is system that the head of Instagram is system that the head of Instagram is explaining how it works and gives you uh explaining how it works and gives you uh explaining how it works and gives you uh a better opportunity to share the story a better opportunity to share the story a better opportunity to share the story with more folks. Third thing that you with more folks. Third thing that you with more folks. Third thing that you can do is lean into the advantages that can do is lean into the advantages that can do is lean into the advantages that churches have specifically. The first churches have specifically. The first churches have specifically. The first one is as we've discussed adnauseium is one is as we've discussed adnauseium is one is as we've discussed adnauseium is your senior leader creating sermons your senior leader creating sermons your senior leader creating sermons every single week. There's a ton of every single week. There's a ton of every single week. There's a ton of spiritual and creative effort there. If spiritual and creative effort there. If spiritual and creative effort there. If we acknowledge that the landscape of we acknowledge that the landscape of we acknowledge that the landscape of social is such that the supply outweighs social is such that the supply outweighs social is such that the supply outweighs the demand. What does that mean? If you the demand. What does that mean? If you the demand. What does that mean? If you are a creator, you are going to face are a creator, you are going to face are a creator, you are going to face resistance. And what happens when we resistance. And what happens when we resistance. And what happens when we face resistance? We give up. face resistance? We give up. face resistance? We give up. >> And you're like, you know what? I'm not >> And you're like, you know what? I'm not >> And you're like, you know what? I'm not going to create content this week. Like going to create content this week. Like going to create content this week. Like I did all that work last week and like I did all that work last week and like I did all that work last week and like what did it even amount to? Because this what did it even amount to? Because this what did it even amount to? Because this is hard. and to be showing up is hard. and to be showing up is hard. and to be showing up consistently is becoming more difficult. consistently is becoming more difficult. consistently is becoming more difficult. So if the church has like the ideation So if the church has like the ideation So if the church has like the ideation process always taken care of no matter process always taken care of no matter process always taken care of no matter what. If you don't publish social media what. If you don't publish social media what. If you don't publish social media content this week, you will have still content this week, you will have still content this week, you will have still had all the subject all the uh uh the had all the subject all the uh uh the had all the subject all the uh uh the source material ready for you source material ready for you source material ready for you >> and you'll have it again next week and >> and you'll have it again next week and >> and you'll have it again next week and again next week and again next week.

again next week and again next week. again next week and again next week. That's a huge advantage especially in a That's a huge advantage especially in a That's a huge advantage especially in a landscape where landscape where landscape where >> you're just not as guaranteed to see >> you're just not as guaranteed to see >> you're just not as guaranteed to see those good results. more people are those good results. more people are those good results. more people are going to give up. That's one advantage. going to give up. That's one advantage. going to give up. That's one advantage. The other advantage is that you as a The other advantage is that you as a The other advantage is that you as a church do not have just an online church do not have just an online church do not have just an online audience the way I do. You also have an audience the way I do. You also have an audience the way I do. You also have an in-person audience. And that in-person in-person audience. And that in-person in-person audience. And that in-person audience again is unique to churches. audience again is unique to churches. audience again is unique to churches. Like sure, you are a dentist. You have Like sure, you are a dentist. You have Like sure, you are a dentist. You have like inerson patients, but like that's like inerson patients, but like that's like inerson patients, but like that's not an audience. not an audience. not an audience. >> You are kind of exclusively working in >> You are kind of exclusively working in >> You are kind of exclusively working in the online arena just like most the online arena just like most the online arena just like most industries are, not churches. So, what industries are, not churches. So, what industries are, not churches. So, what can you do? There are measures and can you do? There are measures and can you do? There are measures and things that you can do on social that things that you can do on social that things that you can do on social that will give you more access to your actual will give you more access to your actual will give you more access to your actual congregation if they just turn on those congregation if they just turn on those congregation if they just turn on those settings. So, one of the things that I settings. So, one of the things that I settings. So, one of the things that I would do, and we've talked about this would do, and we've talked about this would do, and we've talked about this before, is creating a pre-ervice slide before, is creating a pre-ervice slide before, is creating a pre-ervice slide that says on Instagram, add us to your that says on Instagram, add us to your that says on Instagram, add us to your favorites. Because what happens is when favorites. Because what happens is when favorites. Because what happens is when you add an account to your favorites in you add an account to your favorites in you add an account to your favorites in Instagram, that basically is like you Instagram, that basically is like you Instagram, that basically is like you saying, hey, forget about every ranking saying, hey, forget about every ranking saying, hey, forget about every ranking signal. signal. signal. >> Show me everything. >> Show me everything. >> Show me everything. >> Just show me the person all the time, no >> Just show me the person all the time, no >> Just show me the person all the time, no matter what, okay? I don't care if I matter what, okay? I don't care if I matter what, okay? I don't care if I didn't look at their post. I don't care didn't look at their post. I don't care didn't look at their post. I don't care if I didn't like it. Like, put it in the if I didn't like it. Like, put it in the if I didn't like it. Like, put it in the feed. I want to see it. And put it high feed. I want to see it. And put it high feed. I want to see it. And put it high up in the feed. So, if you do that up in the feed. So, if you do that up in the feed. So, if you do that >> and you can get a good chunk of your >> and you can get a good chunk of your >> and you can get a good chunk of your church to be in that spot. Now, church to be in that spot. Now, church to be in that spot. Now, >> you can predictably reach the people >> you can predictably reach the people >> you can predictably reach the people that are following you. What does this that are following you. What does this that are following you. What does this mean? This kind of like resets the table mean? This kind of like resets the table mean? This kind of like resets the table for the no promo code because if people for the no promo code because if people for the no promo code because if people are opting in and saying, "I don't care are opting in and saying, "I don't care are opting in and saying, "I don't care if you Instagram deemed that this if you Instagram deemed that this if you Instagram deemed that this content is trash. I want to see it."

content is trash. I want to see it." content is trash. I want to see it." >> And people want to know what's going on >> And people want to know what's going on >> And people want to know what's going on at church. They don't want to be out of at church. They don't want to be out of at church. They don't want to be out of the loop. the loop. the loop. >> Exactly. Maybe now you can get back into >> Exactly. Maybe now you can get back into >> Exactly. Maybe now you can get back into sharing time-sensitive updates because sharing time-sensitive updates because sharing time-sensitive updates because you know that like yeah a good chunk of you know that like yeah a good chunk of you know that like yeah a good chunk of our in-person audience will see this our in-person audience will see this our in-person audience will see this because we have explained the importance because we have explained the importance because we have explained the importance and they have opted into it. and they have opted into it. and they have opted into it. >> Another thing that you can do is we >> Another thing that you can do is we >> Another thing that you can do is we talked in a recent episode about the talked in a recent episode about the talked in a recent episode about the handoff strategy which was a promotions handoff strategy which was a promotions handoff strategy which was a promotions framework for a ongoing big event in framework for a ongoing big event in framework for a ongoing big event in your church where you do an announcement your church where you do an announcement your church where you do an announcement on a Sunday and then you say oh by the on a Sunday and then you say oh by the on a Sunday and then you say oh by the way we're going to have this like you way we're going to have this like you way we're going to have this like you know incentive and some type of giveaway know incentive and some type of giveaway know incentive and some type of giveaway for fall festival. you'll get, you know, for fall festival. you'll get, you know, for fall festival. you'll get, you know, $20 of credit to use at the food trucks $20 of credit to use at the food trucks $20 of credit to use at the food trucks at Fall Festival. You just got to answer at Fall Festival. You just got to answer at Fall Festival. You just got to answer a trivia question and then the trivia a trivia question and then the trivia a trivia question and then the trivia question is like, "What was last year's question is like, "What was last year's question is like, "What was last year's theme at Fall Festival?" And then you theme at Fall Festival?" And then you theme at Fall Festival?" And then you choose one winner. You do that for 6 choose one winner. You do that for 6 choose one winner. You do that for 6 weeks and now you're training your weeks and now you're training your weeks and now you're training your church to be looking for your Instagram church to be looking for your Instagram church to be looking for your Instagram stories, to be looking for your content. stories, to be looking for your content. stories, to be looking for your content. And what you've done now is you have And what you've done now is you have And what you've done now is you have basically stoked the fire of your basically stoked the fire of your basically stoked the fire of your >> online audience by leveraging the >> online audience by leveraging the >> online audience by leveraging the in-person audience. a strength that a in-person audience. a strength that a in-person audience. a strength that a church has that almost no other. I I church has that almost no other. I I church has that almost no other. I I can't do that. I have to work with what can't do that. I have to work with what can't do that. I have to work with what I have. I have strengths that are mine I have. I have strengths that are mine I have. I have strengths that are mine that are different, but your church has that are different, but your church has that are different, but your church has this strength. And I see I I know I talk this strength. And I see I I know I talk this strength. And I see I I know I talk a lot about like, "Hey, church, you have a lot about like, "Hey, church, you have a lot about like, "Hey, church, you have this advantage." And church is like, this advantage." And church is like, this advantage." And church is like, "Yeah, but like relative to other "Yeah, but like relative to other "Yeah, but like relative to other organizations our size, we have no organizations our size, we have no organizations our size, we have no resources." And I'm like, I get it, but resources." And I'm like, I get it, but resources." And I'm like, I get it, but like those things aren't changing. Let's like those things aren't changing. Let's like those things aren't changing. Let's really lock in and highlight and really lock in and highlight and really lock in and highlight and emphasize the advantages that you do emphasize the advantages that you do emphasize the advantages that you do have because I see them so overlooked have because I see them so overlooked have because I see them so overlooked and not just overlooked, but then and not just overlooked, but then and not just overlooked, but then squandered and not used. It's like of squandered and not used. It's like of squandered and not used. It's like of course there's no hope of making a course there's no hope of making a course there's no hope of making a difference if you're just going to like difference if you're just going to like difference if you're just going to like negate your strengths. It's like if

negate your strengths. It's like if negate your strengths. It's like if you're a sevenfooter in basketball, you you're a sevenfooter in basketball, you you're a sevenfooter in basketball, you know what? I don't want to rebound. I know what? I don't want to rebound. I know what? I don't want to rebound. I You got to rebound, big man. You got to rebound, big man. You got to rebound, big man. You know, and to take your your fire You know, and to take your your fire You know, and to take your your fire analogy one step further. These analogy one step further. These analogy one step further. These efforts that you just highlighted, these efforts that you just highlighted, these efforts that you just highlighted, these practical strategies do a good job of practical strategies do a good job of practical strategies do a good job of stoking the fire. And when that fire is stoking the fire. And when that fire is stoking the fire. And when that fire is stoked, when you've made momentum, it's stoked, when you've made momentum, it's stoked, when you've made momentum, it's just like tending a fire. you have to just like tending a fire. you have to just like tending a fire. you have to continue to put on like fresh hard wood continue to put on like fresh hard wood continue to put on like fresh hard wood onto the fire to keep it going. And onto the fire to keep it going. And onto the fire to keep it going. And that's the no weeks off strategy. So, that's the no weeks off strategy. So, that's the no weeks off strategy. So, when you do, you know, a handoff when you do, you know, a handoff when you do, you know, a handoff announcement campaign, you you listen to announcement campaign, you you listen to announcement campaign, you you listen to last episode, you're like, "Oh, yeah, last episode, you're like, "Oh, yeah, last episode, you're like, "Oh, yeah, that that sounds like something we can that that sounds like something we can that that sounds like something we can do." Now, you're listening to to today's do." Now, you're listening to to today's do." Now, you're listening to to today's episode and you're like, "Okay, I'm episode and you're like, "Okay, I'm episode and you're like, "Okay, I'm paying attention. I'm going to do this. paying attention. I'm going to do this. paying attention. I'm going to do this. Fall festival's coming up. We're doing Fall festival's coming up. We're doing Fall festival's coming up. We're doing it." You stoke that fire. Great. You're it." You stoke that fire. Great. You're it." You stoke that fire. Great. You're going to see momentum on Instagram with going to see momentum on Instagram with going to see momentum on Instagram with your church community. And once the fire your church community. And once the fire your church community. And once the fire is stoked, once it's once it's burning, is stoked, once it's once it's burning, is stoked, once it's once it's burning, that accentuates the no weeks off um um that accentuates the no weeks off um um that accentuates the no weeks off um um kind of a like you have to keep going. kind of a like you have to keep going. kind of a like you have to keep going. You have to no not you don't have to You have to no not you don't have to You have to no not you don't have to keep going with your handoff campaign. keep going with your handoff campaign. keep going with your handoff campaign. You just have to keep going with being You just have to keep going with being You just have to keep going with being present and consistent on social. And if present and consistent on social. And if present and consistent on social. And if that does feel overwhelming, this is why that does feel overwhelming, this is why that does feel overwhelming, this is why we have social sermons, right? Because we have social sermons, right? Because we have social sermons, right? Because you already have the sermon content. It you already have the sermon content. It you already have the sermon content. It exists. Let us step in and repurpose exists. Let us step in and repurpose exists. Let us step in and repurpose that content every single week into two, that content every single week into two, that content every single week into two, three, four, five, six posts. Let that three, four, five, six posts. Let that three, four, five, six posts. Let that be the foundation for what you do on be the foundation for what you do on be the foundation for what you do on social so that when you want to do one social so that when you want to do one social so that when you want to do one of these like additional techniques. So of these like additional techniques. So of these like additional techniques. So we want to create the add to favorite we want to create the add to favorite we want to create the add to favorite slide. We want to do like a fun skit slide. We want to do like a fun skit slide. We want to do like a fun skit reel. We want to do this like bonus reel. We want to do this like bonus reel. We want to do this like bonus stuff that on its own will not stuff that on its own will not stuff that on its own will not constitute a social strategy. It's great constitute a social strategy. It's great constitute a social strategy. It's great stuff that's interspersed. But the stuff that's interspersed. But the stuff that's interspersed. But the foundation is always going to be that

foundation is always going to be that foundation is always going to be that sermon content, those reels, those sermon content, those reels, those sermon content, those reels, those carousels, those quotes that repurpose carousels, those quotes that repurpose carousels, those quotes that repurpose the journey of faith that you're going the journey of faith that you're going the journey of faith that you're going through week to week as a community. And through week to week as a community. And through week to week as a community. And so when we partner with churches, this so when we partner with churches, this so when we partner with churches, this is often the biggest asset for them, is often the biggest asset for them, is often the biggest asset for them, which is they can like clock out at the which is they can like clock out at the which is they can like clock out at the end of the week and know, okay, social end of the week and know, okay, social end of the week and know, okay, social was taken care of. I didn't have the was taken care of. I didn't have the was taken care of. I didn't have the inspiration or the time this week to inspiration or the time this week to inspiration or the time this week to like make something fun or different. like make something fun or different. like make something fun or different. That's okay. Maybe you'll want to do it That's okay. Maybe you'll want to do it That's okay. Maybe you'll want to do it next week or the week after. Maybe you next week or the week after. Maybe you next week or the week after. Maybe you want to do a promo and the promo will want to do a promo and the promo will want to do a promo and the promo will actually perhaps reach the people that actually perhaps reach the people that actually perhaps reach the people that are following you because you've been are following you because you've been are following you because you've been publishing so much content that they're publishing so much content that they're publishing so much content that they're engaging with outside of that. All of engaging with outside of that. All of engaging with outside of that. All of those reasons exist. And so if you feel those reasons exist. And so if you feel those reasons exist. And so if you feel like, hey, this is just not possible for like, hey, this is just not possible for like, hey, this is just not possible for us, go to socialscermons.com before us, go to socialscermons.com before us, go to socialscermons.com before September 2nd, which is a Tuesday, you September 2nd, which is a Tuesday, you September 2nd, which is a Tuesday, you can enter the code three free at can enter the code three free at can enter the code three free at checkout. Get three months free on an checkout. Get three months free on an checkout. Get three months free on an annual plan. It's our best deal. So go annual plan. It's our best deal. So go annual plan. It's our best deal. So go and do that. We're happy to take over and do that. We're happy to take over and do that. We're happy to take over and do the heavy lifting for you on this and do the heavy lifting for you on this and do the heavy lifting for you on this side. And that will then help us side. And that will then help us side. And that will then help us navigate this more tricky landscape that navigate this more tricky landscape that navigate this more tricky landscape that we're facing right now.

we're facing right now. we're facing right now. Another thing I want to highlight is Another thing I want to highlight is Another thing I want to highlight is understanding that you will almost never understanding that you will almost never understanding that you will almost never see the fruit of your work on social. see the fruit of your work on social. see the fruit of your work on social. That's not really exclusive to social. That's not really exclusive to social. That's not really exclusive to social. It's true of all the church work that we It's true of all the church work that we It's true of all the church work that we do because we're dealing in these do because we're dealing in these do because we're dealing in these existential matters of faith in life. existential matters of faith in life. existential matters of faith in life. And life change is very very challenging And life change is very very challenging And life change is very very challenging to quantify. One example was talking to quantify. One example was talking to quantify. One example was talking with my pastor this week and our church with my pastor this week and our church with my pastor this week and our church just hosted like this boxing event like just hosted like this boxing event like just hosted like this boxing event like there was an actual like ring of course there was an actual like ring of course there was an actual like ring of course >> in the church and our church is like >> in the church and our church is like >> in the church and our church is like >> on Sunday morning. >> on Sunday morning. >> on Sunday morning. >> Uh yep. Yeah. It was associate versus >> Uh yep. Yeah. It was associate versus >> Uh yep. Yeah. It was associate versus youth pastor. We there was a budgeting youth pastor. We there was a budgeting youth pastor. We there was a budgeting change. We can only change. We can only change. We can only >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so they had a contract hanging above >> And so they had a contract hanging above >> And so they had a contract hanging above the ring. Yeah. the ring. Yeah. the ring. Yeah. >> So I uh you know my my pastor was like >> So I uh you know my my pastor was like >> So I uh you know my my pastor was like yeah it was really cool. We've done this yeah it was really cool. We've done this yeah it was really cool. We've done this last year and and this year was was last year and and this year was was last year and and this year was was really fun. He said one of the boxers really fun. He said one of the boxers really fun. He said one of the boxers came up to him. I think it was the came up to him. I think it was the came up to him. I think it was the winning boxer. And the boxer wins. He winning boxer. And the boxer wins. He winning boxer. And the boxer wins. He starts thanking Jesus. And we're like, starts thanking Jesus. And we're like, starts thanking Jesus. And we're like, "Oh, that's kind of cool." The boxer "Oh, that's kind of cool." The boxer "Oh, that's kind of cool." The boxer then comes up to Justin and he says, then comes up to Justin and he says, then comes up to Justin and he says, "Um, by the way, I don't know if you "Um, by the way, I don't know if you "Um, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but like this boxer was from know this, but like this boxer was from know this, but like this boxer was from the region. I guess you used to pick me the region. I guess you used to pick me the region. I guess you used to pick me up in a yellow bus when I was younger, up in a yellow bus when I was younger, up in a yellow bus when I was younger, and I would go to church through your and I would go to church through your and I would go to church through your bus ministry."

bus ministry." bus ministry." >> And I remember that bus ministry at our >> And I remember that bus ministry at our >> And I remember that bus ministry at our old church. um old church being like it old church. um old church being like it old church. um old church being like it was a smaller campus of our big church was a smaller campus of our big church was a smaller campus of our big church that no longer exists. that no longer exists. that no longer exists. >> And we would run this bus ministry and >> And we would run this bus ministry and >> And we would run this bus ministry and like all these kids and these students like all these kids and these students like all these kids and these students would be picked up from around the would be picked up from around the would be picked up from around the region and then they would come to region and then they would come to region and then they would come to church on a Saturday night. church on a Saturday night. church on a Saturday night. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And that was like 10 years ago, 15 years >> And that was like 10 years ago, 15 years >> And that was like 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And Jess and I are sitting in ago. And Jess and I are sitting in ago. And Jess and I are sitting in Starbucks and he's like that guy's life Starbucks and he's like that guy's life Starbucks and he's like that guy's life said he said it was transformed. He said he said it was transformed. He said he said it was transformed. He didn't really come from this background. didn't really come from this background. didn't really come from this background. We would always go to like you know the We would always go to like you know the We would always go to like you know the lower income housing units. So, like lower income housing units. So, like lower income housing units. So, like it's cool that like look at what he's it's cool that like look at what he's it's cool that like look at what he's made of himself in his like vocation of made of himself in his like vocation of made of himself in his like vocation of choice, but like choice, but like choice, but like >> I didn't know that. We always thought >> I didn't know that. We always thought >> I didn't know that. We always thought that bus ministry like is it worth the that bus ministry like is it worth the that bus ministry like is it worth the effort? Like is it doing what we want? effort? Like is it doing what we want? effort? Like is it doing what we want? Like you do these things in ministry and Like you do these things in ministry and Like you do these things in ministry and you just throw stuff against the wall you just throw stuff against the wall you just throw stuff against the wall and you're like look I'm doing what I and you're like look I'm doing what I and you're like look I'm doing what I think I'm meant to and I don't get to think I'm meant to and I don't get to think I'm meant to and I don't get to see the fruit on this side of eternity. see the fruit on this side of eternity. see the fruit on this side of eternity. And every so often And every so often And every so often >> we get like this really special moment >> we get like this really special moment >> we get like this really special moment where we get to see a glimpse of one where we get to see a glimpse of one where we get to see a glimpse of one person and how their life was affected person and how their life was affected person and how their life was affected by what we did. And sometimes it's a by what we did. And sometimes it's a by what we did. And sometimes it's a really amazing example like that. really amazing example like that. really amazing example like that. Sometimes it's like just someone that Sometimes it's like just someone that Sometimes it's like just someone that writes me and they say, "Hey, we uh writes me and they say, "Hey, we uh writes me and they say, "Hey, we uh someone wrote me this week on Instagram.

someone wrote me this week on Instagram. someone wrote me this week on Instagram. They're like, "Hey, um we started doing They're like, "Hey, um we started doing They're like, "Hey, um we started doing no weeks off and now it's working." And no weeks off and now it's working." And no weeks off and now it's working." And I was like, "That's awesome." You get I was like, "That's awesome." You get I was like, "That's awesome." You get little things like that, right? And so little things like that, right? And so little things like that, right? And so >> when you look at your social efforts, I >> when you look at your social efforts, I >> when you look at your social efforts, I really don't want you to be discouraged really don't want you to be discouraged really don't want you to be discouraged by this like drop in engagement, if by this like drop in engagement, if by this like drop in engagement, if you're seeing your numbers go down, like you're seeing your numbers go down, like you're seeing your numbers go down, like your job is to plant seeds, to take the your job is to plant seeds, to take the your job is to plant seeds, to take the word that we know does not return empty word that we know does not return empty word that we know does not return empty and you just plant it. And one day and you just plant it. And one day and you just plant it. And one day you'll see all of the outcomes. And you'll see all of the outcomes. And you'll see all of the outcomes. And there are times during social's cycle there are times during social's cycle there are times during social's cycle where you're like, I can see the where you're like, I can see the where you're like, I can see the outcomes right in front of me. Like look outcomes right in front of me. Like look outcomes right in front of me. Like look at these numbers. Look at these at these numbers. Look at these at these numbers. Look at these comments. Look at these DMs. Look at comments. Look at these DMs. Look at comments. Look at these DMs. Look at these relationships that we're making. these relationships that we're making. these relationships that we're making. And other times you're like, oh, And other times you're like, oh, And other times you're like, oh, nothing's working. I promise you that's nothing's working. I promise you that's nothing's working. I promise you that's not true. not true. not true. >> It's still worth it. Just like it was >> It's still worth it. Just like it was >> It's still worth it. Just like it was still worth it showing up and preaching still worth it showing up and preaching still worth it showing up and preaching in church every single week when the in church every single week when the in church every single week when the landscape was changing in the West with landscape was changing in the West with landscape was changing in the West with people attending church. You know, there people attending church. You know, there people attending church. You know, there was a period before we were born, was a period before we were born, was a period before we were born, everyone went to church and then we were everyone went to church and then we were everyone went to church and then we were born, no one went to church. born, no one went to church. born, no one went to church. >> What did we do? >> What did we do? >> What did we do? >> Well, the millennials, >> Well, the millennials, >> Well, the millennials, >> yeah, we ruined a lot of things. And >> yeah, we ruined a lot of things. And >> yeah, we ruined a lot of things. And that doesn't mean that you stop that doesn't mean that you stop that doesn't mean that you stop preaching. Doesn't mean that you stop preaching. Doesn't mean that you stop preaching. Doesn't mean that you stop doing the good work of the gospel. Keep doing the good work of the gospel. Keep doing the good work of the gospel. Keep planting those seeds.

planting those seeds. planting those seeds. >> Well, it's important to say, right? >> Well, it's important to say, right? >> Well, it's important to say, right? Because you could listen to a pragmatic Because you could listen to a pragmatic Because you could listen to a pragmatic episode of this show and think like, am episode of this show and think like, am episode of this show and think like, am I just am I just being trained to be I just am I just being trained to be I just am I just being trained to be like a professional at posting to like a professional at posting to like a professional at posting to Instagram? And that's that's not that's Instagram? And that's that's not that's Instagram? And that's that's not that's not it, right? Like what what we're not it, right? Like what what we're not it, right? Like what what we're trying to do is guide you into being a trying to do is guide you into being a trying to do is guide you into being a good steward of the story. good steward of the story. good steward of the story. >> And it's it's in the intro of every >> And it's it's in the intro of every >> And it's it's in the intro of every show. It's the biggest communication show. It's the biggest communication show. It's the biggest communication shift in the last 500 years, the advent shift in the last 500 years, the advent shift in the last 500 years, the advent of the internet. And you know, a few of the internet. And you know, a few of the internet. And you know, a few decades into the internet, like we may decades into the internet, like we may decades into the internet, like we may need to revisit that line at the intro need to revisit that line at the intro need to revisit that line at the intro of the show because it seems like there of the show because it seems like there of the show because it seems like there are these these smaller technological are these these smaller technological are these these smaller technological shifts that are that are happening shifts that are that are happening shifts that are that are happening whether it's discovery algorithm or um whether it's discovery algorithm or um whether it's discovery algorithm or um generative AI like these shifts are generative AI like these shifts are generative AI like these shifts are occurring and occurring and occurring and the the story stays the same and our job the the story stays the same and our job the the story stays the same and our job is to be stewards of the story by like is to be stewards of the story by like is to be stewards of the story by like you've said being faithful in in sewing you've said being faithful in in sewing you've said being faithful in in sewing the seed. So right now, yeah, it's it's the seed. So right now, yeah, it's it's the seed. So right now, yeah, it's it's a ripe opportunity to sew proverbial a ripe opportunity to sew proverbial a ripe opportunity to sew proverbial seeds of the story through Instagram.

seeds of the story through Instagram. seeds of the story through Instagram. And that's the point is to be a good And that's the point is to be a good And that's the point is to be a good steward of that. Um, there's a it's it's steward of that. Um, there's a it's it's steward of that. Um, there's a it's it's it's spiritually motivated. It's not it's spiritually motivated. It's not it's spiritually motivated. It's not just for the point of like being a good just for the point of like being a good just for the point of like being a good content creator on social. And an content creator on social. And an content creator on social. And an extension of this, which is the final extension of this, which is the final extension of this, which is the final critical point that I'll make, is that critical point that I'll make, is that critical point that I'll make, is that remember social media creator in a remember social media creator in a remember social media creator in a church, your job is not to be good at church, your job is not to be good at church, your job is not to be good at Instagram. M Instagram. M Instagram. M >> my job as a business operator is not to >> my job as a business operator is not to >> my job as a business operator is not to be good at Instagram. My job is for the be good at Instagram. My job is for the be good at Instagram. My job is for the mission of this organization to be mission of this organization to be mission of this organization to be fulfilled and I use Instagram as a fulfilled and I use Instagram as a fulfilled and I use Instagram as a platform to do that. Your job is to see platform to do that. Your job is to see platform to do that. Your job is to see the mission of the church fulfilled and the mission of the church fulfilled and the mission of the church fulfilled and we use these platforms to facilitate the we use these platforms to facilitate the we use these platforms to facilitate the fulfillment of that mission. fulfillment of that mission. fulfillment of that mission. >> I want to share another example here of >> I want to share another example here of >> I want to share another example here of not the church but this Alex Hermoszi not the church but this Alex Hermoszi not the church but this Alex Hermoszi character that I mentioned earlier. And character that I mentioned earlier. And character that I mentioned earlier. And if you're not familiar with this person, if you're not familiar with this person, if you're not familiar with this person, Alex Herozi ran some businesses and now Alex Herozi ran some businesses and now Alex Herozi ran some businesses and now he teaches people how to run businesses. he teaches people how to run businesses. he teaches people how to run businesses. So, you know, one of those like business So, you know, one of those like business So, you know, one of those like business people. people. people. >> This past week, a couple weeks ago, he >> This past week, a couple weeks ago, he >> This past week, a couple weeks ago, he launched his new book. And he did a live launched his new book. And he did a live launched his new book. And he did a live stream. We're on the live stream. He had stream. We're on the live stream. He had stream. We're on the live stream. He had the Guinness Book of World Record people the Guinness Book of World Record people the Guinness Book of World Record people on standby. They then like 6 hours into on standby. They then like 6 hours into on standby. They then like 6 hours into the live stream after he had broken the the live stream after he had broken the the live stream after he had broken the record of most books sold in like I was record of most books sold in like I was record of most books sold in like I was the first 48 hours, first week or the first 48 hours, first week or the first 48 hours, first week or whatever, he had sold three million whatever, he had sold three million whatever, he had sold three million books. They walk on and on the stream books. They walk on and on the stream books. They walk on and on the stream >> present him with like you have broken >> present him with like you have broken >> present him with like you have broken the record. We have confirmed it.

the record. We have confirmed it. the record. We have confirmed it. Congratulations. Like Congratulations. Like Congratulations. Like >> it was a landmark event for like just >> it was a landmark event for like just >> it was a landmark event for like just >> books much less like internet >> books much less like internet >> books much less like internet creatorship. creatorship. creatorship. >> And then people were kind of talking >> And then people were kind of talking >> And then people were kind of talking about this, you know, there's a lot of about this, you know, there's a lot of about this, you know, there's a lot of commentary going on. And I saw this commentary going on. And I saw this commentary going on. And I saw this Instagram reel. I want you to listen to Instagram reel. I want you to listen to Instagram reel. I want you to listen to it. Alex Hormosi has a big problem. He's it. Alex Hormosi has a big problem. He's it. Alex Hormosi has a big problem. He's a brilliant business thinker and creates a brilliant business thinker and creates a brilliant business thinker and creates over 400 pieces of content a month. Even over 400 pieces of content a month. Even over 400 pieces of content a month. Even has 1.4 million Tik Tok followers. But has 1.4 million Tik Tok followers. But has 1.4 million Tik Tok followers. But his recent videos haven't been getting his recent videos haven't been getting his recent videos haven't been getting many views. And there's three reasons I many views. And there's three reasons I many views. And there's three reasons I think it could be. Recently, he's been think it could be. Recently, he's been think it could be. Recently, he's been going hard with the promotion of his new going hard with the promotion of his new going hard with the promotion of his new book and encouraging people to click out book and encouraging people to click out book and encouraging people to click out of Tik Tok, which Tik Tok absolutely of Tik Tok, which Tik Tok absolutely of Tik Tok, which Tik Tok absolutely hate. And we know people on Tik Tok hate. And we know people on Tik Tok hate. And we know people on Tik Tok prefer authenticity over promotion a lot prefer authenticity over promotion a lot prefer authenticity over promotion a lot of the time. Now, I have a theory that of the time. Now, I have a theory that of the time. Now, I have a theory that accounts that use paid ads on Tik Tok accounts that use paid ads on Tik Tok accounts that use paid ads on Tik Tok often suffer when they stop doing the often suffer when they stop doing the often suffer when they stop doing the paid ads. Because if you compare these paid ads. Because if you compare these paid ads. Because if you compare these most recent videos to the first most recent videos to the first most recent videos to the first promotional videos, the views are 10x promotional videos, the views are 10x promotional videos, the views are 10x less. I'd love to know what you guys less. I'd love to know what you guys less. I'd love to know what you guys actually think this is. Stay authentic. actually think this is. Stay authentic. actually think this is. Stay authentic. Try to keep people within the Tik Tok Try to keep people within the Tik Tok Try to keep people within the Tik Tok ecosystem. And if you want big organic ecosystem. And if you want big organic ecosystem. And if you want big organic reach, try to avoid using paid ads for reach, try to avoid using paid ads for reach, try to avoid using paid ads for as long as possible. So, this creator as long as possible. So, this creator as long as possible. So, this creator says at the end, his thesis is like this says at the end, his thesis is like this says at the end, his thesis is like this is not the way you want to use Tik Tok.

is not the way you want to use Tik Tok. is not the way you want to use Tik Tok. You want to be organic and be authentic You want to be organic and be authentic You want to be organic and be authentic and don't promote too much. And and to and don't promote too much. And and to and don't promote too much. And and to be clear, Alexi promoted this book to be clear, Alexi promoted this book to be clear, Alexi promoted this book to like like like the nth degree. And you can see in any the nth degree. And you can see in any the nth degree. And you can see in any sprint promotion, which is what we would sprint promotion, which is what we would sprint promotion, which is what we would qualify this as, where you're just like qualify this as, where you're just like qualify this as, where you're just like straight up promoting for your one like straight up promoting for your one like straight up promoting for your one like big thing a year, your one or two big big thing a year, your one or two big big thing a year, your one or two big things a year. The longer and deeper you things a year. The longer and deeper you things a year. The longer and deeper you get into that sprint promotion, the more get into that sprint promotion, the more get into that sprint promotion, the more attention waines. attention waines. attention waines. >> But this creator is basically commenting >> But this creator is basically commenting >> But this creator is basically commenting and saying like, "This is not how you're and saying like, "This is not how you're and saying like, "This is not how you're supposed to use." social media and then supposed to use." social media and then supposed to use." social media and then Alex Rosie would say, "I just sold the Alex Rosie would say, "I just sold the Alex Rosie would say, "I just sold the most books in the history of humankind most books in the history of humankind most books in the history of humankind in the Guinness Book World, the Guinness in the Guinness Book World, the Guinness in the Guinness Book World, the Guinness Book of World Records. Book of World Records. Book of World Records. >> I can handle my Tik Tok views going >> I can handle my Tik Tok views going >> I can handle my Tik Tok views going down." down." down." >> Yeah. And this is a reflection of what I >> Yeah. And this is a reflection of what I >> Yeah. And this is a reflection of what I just said. Like your job is not to be just said. Like your job is not to be just said. Like your job is not to be good at Tik Tok. Your job is not to be good at Tik Tok. Your job is not to be good at Tik Tok. Your job is not to be good at Instagram. Now, that isn't to good at Instagram. Now, that isn't to good at Instagram. Now, that isn't to say you purposely use these platforms in say you purposely use these platforms in say you purposely use these platforms in the wrong way. It's a delicate balance the wrong way. It's a delicate balance the wrong way. It's a delicate balance because to have your mission fulfilled because to have your mission fulfilled because to have your mission fulfilled via these platforms, you have to use via these platforms, you have to use via these platforms, you have to use them the way that they were intended. them the way that they were intended. them the way that they were intended. But, and I have seen this happen to me, But, and I have seen this happen to me, But, and I have seen this happen to me, it's very easy to start using these it's very easy to start using these it's very easy to start using these platforms with the ultimate goal to be platforms with the ultimate goal to be platforms with the ultimate goal to be to succeed on the platform and then be to succeed on the platform and then be to succeed on the platform and then be like, "Wait, does this translate at all like, "Wait, does this translate at all like, "Wait, does this translate at all to like the business goals or does this to like the business goals or does this to like the business goals or does this translate at all to the church's goals?"

translate at all to the church's goals?" translate at all to the church's goals?" Now, the nice thing about running a Now, the nice thing about running a Now, the nice thing about running a business is I have a lot of latitude business is I have a lot of latitude business is I have a lot of latitude because like so long as I just continue because like so long as I just continue because like so long as I just continue to build attention and trust, I can to build attention and trust, I can to build attention and trust, I can pivot that into really anything. But for pivot that into really anything. But for pivot that into really anything. But for churches, I think you have like more churches, I think you have like more churches, I think you have like more reason to be like, "Yeah, you know what? reason to be like, "Yeah, you know what? reason to be like, "Yeah, you know what? We are going to run that add to favorite We are going to run that add to favorite We are going to run that add to favorite slide. We are going to make sure that slide. We are going to make sure that slide. We are going to make sure that the people in our congregation are the people in our congregation are the people in our congregation are extremely connected with our social extremely connected with our social extremely connected with our social platforms and then we are going to post platforms and then we are going to post platforms and then we are going to post some time-sensitive updates and we some time-sensitive updates and we some time-sensitive updates and we recognize that we're not going to get recognize that we're not going to get recognize that we're not going to get broad reach with that. But guess what? broad reach with that. But guess what? broad reach with that. But guess what? It's not super easy to get broad reach It's not super easy to get broad reach It's not super easy to get broad reach anymore. And so we're going to pivot and anymore. And so we're going to pivot and anymore. And so we're going to pivot and use the tools that exist on Instagram use the tools that exist on Instagram use the tools that exist on Instagram and we're going to use it specifically and we're going to use it specifically and we're going to use it specifically in ways that work for our organization. in ways that work for our organization. in ways that work for our organization. So we're still going to use Instagram So we're still going to use Instagram So we're still going to use Instagram the way like it's meant to be used, but the way like it's meant to be used, but the way like it's meant to be used, but we're not going to use it the way that we're not going to use it the way that we're not going to use it the way that like most people use it. And will there like most people use it. And will there like most people use it. And will there be some sacrifice on reach? Yes. But be some sacrifice on reach? Yes. But be some sacrifice on reach? Yes. But that's actually not what we're that's actually not what we're that's actually not what we're optimizing for. We're optimizing for optimizing for. We're optimizing for optimizing for. We're optimizing for more participation, more next steps, more participation, more next steps, more participation, more next steps, more awareness and interest for our more awareness and interest for our more awareness and interest for our existing congregation. So like this is existing congregation. So like this is existing congregation. So like this is kind of my grand thesis at the end of kind of my grand thesis at the end of kind of my grand thesis at the end of this, which is this, which is this, which is >> if >> if >> if supply and demand are where they are and supply and demand are where they are and supply and demand are where they are and we do not have as much ability to reach we do not have as much ability to reach we do not have as much ability to reach these broad audiences predictably, we're these broad audiences predictably, we're these broad audiences predictably, we're not going to see 3 to 5% viral for me not going to see 3 to 5% viral for me not going to see 3 to 5% viral for me posts, which we did in 2023 and 2024.

posts, which we did in 2023 and 2024. posts, which we did in 2023 and 2024. And I don't want to see like 2025 social And I don't want to see like 2025 social And I don't want to see like 2025 social media for church continued where like media for church continued where like media for church continued where like the bulk of what we do, the highlights the bulk of what we do, the highlights the bulk of what we do, the highlights of what we do are these skit reels where of what we do are these skit reels where of what we do are these skit reels where they get circulated in the church space they get circulated in the church space they get circulated in the church space and we all just like keep copying each and we all just like keep copying each and we all just like keep copying each other. other. other. >> Like do those one like once every so >> Like do those one like once every so >> Like do those one like once every so often. But like if that's the peak of often. But like if that's the peak of often. But like if that's the peak of what we're doing, that's also probably what we're doing, that's also probably what we're doing, that's also probably not aligned with like fulfilling not aligned with like fulfilling not aligned with like fulfilling mission. I think mission. I think mission. I think >> there is like opportunity for us to >> there is like opportunity for us to >> there is like opportunity for us to pivot and be like, okay, we have an pivot and be like, okay, we have an pivot and be like, okay, we have an inerson audience. There are tools that inerson audience. There are tools that inerson audience. There are tools that yes, we have to leverage in a specific yes, we have to leverage in a specific yes, we have to leverage in a specific way, but if we do, way, but if we do, way, but if we do, >> we can start like using social to >> we can start like using social to >> we can start like using social to promote so long as we actually like do promote so long as we actually like do promote so long as we actually like do these things first. And yes, we're going these things first. And yes, we're going these things first. And yes, we're going to sacrifice this, but so long as it's to sacrifice this, but so long as it's to sacrifice this, but so long as it's going to be 0.5 to 1% viral for me going to be 0.5 to 1% viral for me going to be 0.5 to 1% viral for me posts, maybe there's less credence in posts, maybe there's less credence in posts, maybe there's less credence in that strategy that strategy that strategy and we can start pivoting a bit. This is and we can start pivoting a bit. This is and we can start pivoting a bit. This is me kind of spitballing at the end of a me kind of spitballing at the end of a me kind of spitballing at the end of a podcast where like you've listened all podcast where like you've listened all podcast where like you've listened all the way through to the end and this is the way through to the end and this is the way through to the end and this is like, you know, on the real cutting edge like, you know, on the real cutting edge like, you know, on the real cutting edge of things. The great thing is that there of things. The great thing is that there of things. The great thing is that there is so much attention on these platforms.

is so much attention on these platforms. is so much attention on these platforms. Yes, there's more competition, but you Yes, there's more competition, but you Yes, there's more competition, but you have these advantages have these advantages have these advantages >> and we can use those advantages to carve >> and we can use those advantages to carve >> and we can use those advantages to carve out spaces for us that allow us to out spaces for us that allow us to out spaces for us that allow us to fulfill the mission of the church. Does fulfill the mission of the church. Does fulfill the mission of the church. Does this mean we won't be as successful on this mean we won't be as successful on this mean we won't be as successful on Instagram? So be it. That's not what Instagram? So be it. That's not what Instagram? So be it. That's not what we're called to do anyway. we're called to do anyway. we're called to do anyway. >> That's right. That's a good word for the >> That's right. That's a good word for the >> That's right. That's a good word for the moment that we're in. moment that we're in. moment that we're in. Oh, and you're getting a phone call, so Oh, and you're getting a phone call, so Oh, and you're getting a phone call, so that's the perfect time to end this that's the perfect time to end this that's the perfect time to end this episode. Thanks so much for your time, episode. Thanks so much for your time, episode. Thanks so much for your time, attention, and trust. We will talk to attention, and trust. We will talk to attention, and trust. We will talk to you next week. Tristan's asking Kyle how you next week. Tristan's asking Kyle how you next week. Tristan's asking Kyle how to run a mock draft yesterday. to run a mock draft yesterday. to run a mock draft yesterday. >> Oh, this is good. >> Oh, this is good. >> Oh, this is good. >> I think it's good. >> I think it's good. >> I think it's good. >> This is really good. Yeah, cuz Yeah, >> This is really good. Yeah, cuz Yeah, >> This is really good. Yeah, cuz Yeah, fantasy football is nice because anyone fantasy football is nice because anyone fantasy football is nice because anyone can win. can win. can win. >> It's just random. >> It's just random. >> It's just random. >> Yeah, Tristan and Roxanne both >> Yeah, Tristan and Roxanne both >> Yeah, Tristan and Roxanne both outperformed me last year. outperformed me last year. outperformed me last year. >> Mitchell, last place. >> Mitchell, last place. >> Mitchell, last place. >> Yes. spent about as much time as anyone.