Things Growing Churches Do Differently

I've been privileged to be part of I've been privileged to be part of growing churches for most of my adult growing churches for most of my adult growing churches for most of my adult life, [music] from being on staff to life, [music] from being on staff to life, [music] from being on staff to serving to sitting in the pews on serving to sitting in the pews on serving to sitting in the pews on Sundays. And in that time, what I've Sundays. And in that time, what I've Sundays. And in that time, what I've seen in terms of the difference between seen in terms of the difference between seen in terms of the difference between growing churches and declining or growing churches and declining or growing churches and declining or stagnant churches, at least for me, stagnant churches, at least for me, stagnant churches, at least for me, [music] surprised me and wasn't what I [music] surprised me and wasn't what I [music] surprised me and wasn't what I expected. But when you're inside of a expected. But when you're inside of a expected. But when you're inside of a growing church, when you actually see growing church, when you actually see growing church, when you actually see how they operate day-to-day, [music] how they operate day-to-day, [music] how they operate day-to-day, [music] patterns start to emerge. And after patterns start to emerge. And after patterns start to emerge. And after being up close to this for 15 plus being up close to this for 15 plus being up close to this for 15 plus years, I want to share what I've seen. years, I want to share what I've seen. years, I want to share what I've seen. These [music] are things that growing These [music] are things that growing These [music] are things that growing churches do differently. Let's dive in. churches do differently. Let's dive in. churches do differently. Let's dive in. Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host, we call him Pastor always by my co-host, we call him Pastor always by my co-host, we call him Pastor Paloma. It's Alexander Miss. Paloma. It's Alexander Miss. Paloma. It's Alexander Miss. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Just want to start off by an honorable >> Just want to start off by an honorable >> Just want to start off by an honorable mention here. We're going to get into mention here. We're going to get into mention here. We're going to get into what from my vantage point, I've seen up what from my vantage point, I've seen up what from my vantage point, I've seen up close churches that are growing do close churches that are growing do close churches that are growing do differently. differently. differently. >> And this isn't necessarily like big >> And this isn't necessarily like big >> And this isn't necessarily like big church versus small church. It's like church versus small church. It's like church versus small church. It's like stagnant church versus growing church. stagnant church versus growing church. stagnant church versus growing church. And uh I want to be upfront right away. And uh I want to be upfront right away. And uh I want to be upfront right away. Usually the biggest thing is if your Usually the biggest thing is if your Usually the biggest thing is if your region is growing in population, region is growing in population, region is growing in population, >> right? We can see that reflected in the >> right? We can see that reflected in the >> right? We can see that reflected in the data.

data. data. >> Yes. Ryan Burge has has done a great job >> Yes. Ryan Burge has has done a great job >> Yes. Ryan Burge has has done a great job of publishing data on this and gathering of publishing data on this and gathering of publishing data on this and gathering it all for us. Um there are so many it all for us. Um there are so many it all for us. Um there are so many things that you as a church have that things that you as a church have that things that you as a church have that are not in your control. are not in your control. are not in your control. >> And so like my intent with an episode >> And so like my intent with an episode >> And so like my intent with an episode like this is not to like make you feel like this is not to like make you feel like this is not to like make you feel shamed or guilty. Um because you can do shamed or guilty. Um because you can do shamed or guilty. Um because you can do everything right and that may not be everything right and that may not be everything right and that may not be reflected sure in what you see on a reflected sure in what you see on a reflected sure in what you see on a Sunday morning when you look out to the Sunday morning when you look out to the Sunday morning when you look out to the pews or the chairs in your sanctuary or pews or the chairs in your sanctuary or pews or the chairs in your sanctuary or auditorium. Uh the point is though there auditorium. Uh the point is though there auditorium. Uh the point is though there are things in our control and so that's are things in our control and so that's are things in our control and so that's what we want to focus on today because I what we want to focus on today because I what we want to focus on today because I do if nothing else at the end of the day do if nothing else at the end of the day do if nothing else at the end of the day I need to feel like I have some some I need to feel like I have some some I need to feel like I have some some measure of control over the things that measure of control over the things that measure of control over the things that are my responsibility. are my responsibility. are my responsibility. >> Well and it's stewardship right like >> Well and it's stewardship right like >> Well and it's stewardship right like there are things the the five points there are things the the five points there are things the the five points we're going to talk about are very we're going to talk about are very we're going to talk about are very practical. They are things that every practical. They are things that every practical. They are things that every church, any church of any size is church, any church of any size is church, any church of any size is responsible for, accountable to, and responsible for, accountable to, and responsible for, accountable to, and it's just a matter of stewardship. And it's just a matter of stewardship. And it's just a matter of stewardship. And are we stewarding, you know, we're going are we stewarding, you know, we're going are we stewarding, you know, we're going to talk about church announcements, to talk about church announcements, to talk about church announcements, surprise, surprise. Are we stewarding surprise, surprise. Are we stewarding surprise, surprise. Are we stewarding that time? Well, yes or no. And so, that time? Well, yes or no. And so, that time? Well, yes or no. And so, we've got some some suggestions with how we've got some some suggestions with how we've got some some suggestions with how to steward it well. And that happens to to steward it well. And that happens to to steward it well. And that happens to align with a lot of the growing churches align with a lot of the growing churches align with a lot of the growing churches that we either attend or work with here that we either attend or work with here that we either attend or work with here in our work at ProChurch Tools and in our work at ProChurch Tools and in our work at ProChurch Tools and Nucleus. A lot of these churches are Nucleus. A lot of these churches are Nucleus. A lot of these churches are stewarding these things well. And so, stewarding these things well. And so, stewarding these things well. And so, it's just an opportunity for churches it's just an opportunity for churches it's just an opportunity for churches that are smaller. the average church that are smaller. the average church that are smaller. the average church size in America. We're talking to most size in America. We're talking to most size in America. We're talking to most churches right now. Um just kind of churches right now. Um just kind of churches right now. Um just kind of reminding ourselves to steward these reminding ourselves to steward these reminding ourselves to steward these things well and as we do these, we very things well and as we do these, we very things well and as we do these, we very well may see some fruit from them.

well may see some fruit from them. well may see some fruit from them. >> Yeah. So, honorable mention, move your >> Yeah. So, honorable mention, move your >> Yeah. So, honorable mention, move your church to where [laughter] a lot of church to where [laughter] a lot of church to where [laughter] a lot of people are moving. You'll be set. Fall people are moving. You'll be set. Fall people are moving. You'll be set. Fall into it accidentally. So, number one into it accidentally. So, number one into it accidentally. So, number one here on our list of five is growing here on our list of five is growing here on our list of five is growing churches use inspiration instead of churches use inspiration instead of churches use inspiration instead of information in their announcements and information in their announcements and information in their announcements and promotions. And when when I've seen this promotions. And when when I've seen this promotions. And when when I've seen this up close, it has always been surprising up close, it has always been surprising up close, it has always been surprising to me um because a growing church is to me um because a growing church is to me um because a growing church is full of active participants, people that full of active participants, people that full of active participants, people that are involved in ministry, people that are involved in ministry, people that are involved in ministry, people that are serving, people that are engaged are serving, people that are engaged are serving, people that are engaged outside of just Sunday morning, right? outside of just Sunday morning, right? outside of just Sunday morning, right? Um a growing church is full of people Um a growing church is full of people Um a growing church is full of people that are involved because the church is that are involved because the church is that are involved because the church is the people. And how do we get those the people. And how do we get those the people. And how do we get those people involved? We use story and we use people involved? We use story and we use people involved? We use story and we use inspiration to get them excited about inspiration to get them excited about inspiration to get them excited about what's going on, to highlight the life what's going on, to highlight the life what's going on, to highlight the life change that's occurring. And this change that's occurring. And this change that's occurring. And this becomes kind of this positive flywheel becomes kind of this positive flywheel becomes kind of this positive flywheel effect. And I think that maybe the effect. And I think that maybe the effect. And I think that maybe the reason this focus exists is reason this focus exists is reason this focus exists is >> because like I' I've been in churches >> because like I' I've been in churches >> because like I' I've been in churches that don't do this and announcements that don't do this and announcements that don't do this and announcements kind of always get put on the back kind of always get put on the back kind of always get put on the back burner, right? And so what happens is burner, right? And so what happens is burner, right? And so what happens is you kind of go up and then you end up you kind of go up and then you end up you kind of go up and then you end up like reading your list of things that like reading your list of things that like reading your list of things that are happening and people forget what you are happening and people forget what you are happening and people forget what you said and people don't get inspired. And said and people don't get inspired. And said and people don't get inspired. And it's a bit of a paradox. Um, maybe it's a bit of a paradox. Um, maybe it's a bit of a paradox. Um, maybe ironically, everything in communications ironically, everything in communications ironically, everything in communications tends to be a paradox, right? We've tends to be a paradox, right? We've tends to be a paradox, right? We've talked before about the more you talked before about the more you talked before about the more you announce, the less they listen. Uh, announce, the less they listen. Uh, announce, the less they listen. Uh, which perhaps also applies here when it which perhaps also applies here when it which perhaps also applies here when it comes to communications. Um, comes to communications. Um, comes to communications. Um, >> communications gets neglected in >> communications gets neglected in >> communications gets neglected in churches. And the churches that focus on churches. And the churches that focus on churches. And the churches that focus on it uh tend to get the well, they they

it uh tend to get the well, they they it uh tend to get the well, they they major on the things that matter most, major on the things that matter most, major on the things that matter most, right? I think if you're a stagnant right? I think if you're a stagnant right? I think if you're a stagnant church and you're not seeing people get church and you're not seeing people get church and you're not seeing people get involved in things, what happens? you involved in things, what happens? you involved in things, what happens? you start to want to communicate more cuz start to want to communicate more cuz start to want to communicate more cuz people come up to you and they say, "Oh, people come up to you and they say, "Oh, people come up to you and they say, "Oh, I didn't know that event was happening." I didn't know that event was happening." I didn't know that event was happening." And then you go crazy. You crash out And then you go crazy. You crash out And then you go crazy. You crash out because you're like, because you're like, because you're like, >> "Well, we announced it for 6 weeks." >> "Well, we announced it for 6 weeks." >> "Well, we announced it for 6 weeks." >> And it is so painfully ironic because >> And it is so painfully ironic because >> And it is so painfully ironic because when we don't steward this time well and when we don't steward this time well and when we don't steward this time well and we prioritize information over we prioritize information over we prioritize information over invitation, we just get up there and invitation, we just get up there and invitation, we just get up there and like you said, we just read off the like you said, we just read off the like you said, we just read off the list. And often that announcement time list. And often that announcement time list. And often that announcement time is positioned right before the sermon. is positioned right before the sermon. is positioned right before the sermon. And so when when we're not intentional And so when when we're not intentional And so when when we're not intentional with this time and we do just overload with this time and we do just overload with this time and we do just overload people with information, not only do people with information, not only do people with information, not only do they forget the information we're trying they forget the information we're trying they forget the information we're trying to give them because we haven't to give them because we haven't to give them because we haven't presented it in a compelling way, we presented it in a compelling way, we presented it in a compelling way, we haven't told a good story, they will haven't told a good story, they will haven't told a good story, they will actually tune out um attention-wise actually tune out um attention-wise actually tune out um attention-wise during that moment and then you've lost during that moment and then you've lost during that moment and then you've lost their attention for what's next, which their attention for what's next, which their attention for what's next, which is the sermon, which is your attempt to is the sermon, which is your attempt to is the sermon, which is your attempt to retell the greatest story ever told. So retell the greatest story ever told. So retell the greatest story ever told. So in when we steward this well and use in when we steward this well and use in when we steward this well and use leverage story and inspiration, we leverage story and inspiration, we leverage story and inspiration, we create this positive flywheel effect.

create this positive flywheel effect. create this positive flywheel effect. But on the inverse, when we don't, we But on the inverse, when we don't, we But on the inverse, when we don't, we actually create a negative flywheel actually create a negative flywheel actually create a negative flywheel effect for what we're trying to do, effect for what we're trying to do, effect for what we're trying to do, which is lead people towards the sermon which is lead people towards the sermon which is lead people towards the sermon and then whatever next step, salvation, and then whatever next step, salvation, and then whatever next step, salvation, communion, whatever it is. And so the communion, whatever it is. And so the communion, whatever it is. And so the formula here, the path forward to making formula here, the path forward to making formula here, the path forward to making a major improvement is actually rather a major improvement is actually rather a major improvement is actually rather simple. simple. simple. >> And this gets back to what do we always >> And this gets back to what do we always >> And this gets back to what do we always say, the language you use becomes the say, the language you use becomes the say, the language you use becomes the culture you build. So, Alex and I have culture you build. So, Alex and I have culture you build. So, Alex and I have both articulated here. There's the both articulated here. There's the both articulated here. There's the positive flywheel, which is like, think positive flywheel, which is like, think positive flywheel, which is like, think of it like a snowball. We're recording of it like a snowball. We're recording of it like a snowball. We're recording this. You can make a lot of snowballs in this. You can make a lot of snowballs in this. You can make a lot of snowballs in a lot of parts of North America right a lot of parts of North America right a lot of parts of North America right [laughter] now. [laughter] now. [laughter] now. >> Think of it like a snowball that's going >> Think of it like a snowball that's going >> Think of it like a snowball that's going down the hill, right? That's what we down the hill, right? That's what we down the hill, right? That's what we mean by flywheel effect where it starts mean by flywheel effect where it starts mean by flywheel effect where it starts small and it just keeps getting bigger small and it just keeps getting bigger small and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. and bigger. and bigger. >> That can be working for you or it can be >> That can be working for you or it can be >> That can be working for you or it can be working against you. And it seems maybe working against you. And it seems maybe working against you. And it seems maybe >> you're listening to this episode or you >> you're listening to this episode or you >> you're listening to this episode or you see it in your church and you're like, see it in your church and you're like, see it in your church and you're like, "Okay, like we just have to get these "Okay, like we just have to get these "Okay, like we just have to get these announcements said like why does this announcements said like why does this announcements said like why does this matter?" And then that matter?" And then that matter?" And then that it ends up hijacking attention in your it ends up hijacking attention in your it ends up hijacking attention in your service which affects the sermon which service which affects the sermon which service which affects the sermon which affects people getting involved with affects people getting involved with affects people getting involved with giving and small groups and new visitors giving and small groups and new visitors giving and small groups and new visitors kind of like showing up to like the kind of like showing up to like the kind of like showing up to like the assimilation class or like pizza with assimilation class or like pizza with assimilation class or like pizza with the pastor or like getting connected for the pastor or like getting connected for the pastor or like getting connected for the first time and uh did I say small the first time and uh did I say small the first time and uh did I say small groups baptism giving volunteer like all groups baptism giving volunteer like all groups baptism giving volunteer like all the core next steps those get neglected the core next steps those get neglected the core next steps those get neglected and what happens in a church where all and what happens in a church where all and what happens in a church where all of the core next steps of the core next steps of the core next steps >> are not seeing people get involved >> are not seeing people get involved >> are not seeing people get involved >> you got passive spectators so Just >> you got passive spectators so Just >> you got passive spectators so Just imagine like okay my church what if like imagine like okay my church what if like imagine like okay my church what if like 25% more people were giving volunteering 25% more people were giving volunteering 25% more people were giving volunteering in small groups new visitors getting in small groups new visitors getting in small groups new visitors getting connected like that would be pretty connected like that would be pretty connected like that would be pretty transformative and it can seem

transformative and it can seem transformative and it can seem >> too simple but it's like those tweets >> too simple but it's like those tweets >> too simple but it's like those tweets that I see or like those videos that I that I see or like those videos that I that I see or like those videos that I see those short videos like well I see those short videos like well I see those short videos like well I regret to inform you that just walking regret to inform you that just walking regret to inform you that just walking and moving and eating right actually did and moving and eating right actually did and moving and eating right actually did [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] cure everything bad in my life like cure everything bad in my life like cure everything bad in my life like sometimes the simplest things it's that sometimes the simplest things it's that sometimes the simplest things it's that lowhanging fruit and it pains me because lowhanging fruit and it pains me because lowhanging fruit and it pains me because when you see behind the scenes What's when you see behind the scenes What's when you see behind the scenes What's happening in churches, it's often just happening in churches, it's often just happening in churches, it's often just like bureaucracy or like ministry like bureaucracy or like ministry like bureaucracy or like ministry politics where people are like, "Hey, politics where people are like, "Hey, politics where people are like, "Hey, here's a system that I want to propose." here's a system that I want to propose." here's a system that I want to propose." And people are like, "Well, we can't do And people are like, "Well, we can't do And people are like, "Well, we can't do that for this, this, and this." None of that for this, this, and this." None of that for this, this, and this." None of which are like anchored to mission at which are like anchored to mission at which are like anchored to mission at all. It's just like appeasement of all. It's just like appeasement of all. It's just like appeasement of different ministries or appeasement of different ministries or appeasement of different ministries or appeasement of different people. And then you have different people. And then you have different people. And then you have these ministry politics that end up these ministry politics that end up these ministry politics that end up being the true mission dictating what's being the true mission dictating what's being the true mission dictating what's happening. And then a church can't even happening. And then a church can't even happening. And then a church can't even like experiment with what if we just did like experiment with what if we just did like experiment with what if we just did fewer announcements. And this gets to fewer announcements. And this gets to fewer announcements. And this gets to number two, which is [snorts] number two, which is [snorts] number two, which is [snorts] dovetailing off of number one, dovetailing off of number one, dovetailing off of number one, inspiration over information. Number two inspiration over information. Number two inspiration over information. Number two is growing churches understand that is growing churches understand that is growing churches understand that Sunday is not your savior. And the first Sunday is not your savior. And the first Sunday is not your savior. And the first time that like this really clicked for time that like this really clicked for time that like this really clicked for me was when I was in a larger church for me was when I was in a larger church for me was when I was in a larger church for the first time.

the first time. the first time. >> And I knew >> And I knew >> And I knew >> I'm like in my early 20s. I've only ever >> I'm like in my early 20s. I've only ever >> I'm like in my early 20s. I've only ever been in like when I say smaller been in like when I say smaller been in like when I say smaller churches, look, I'm I'm getting I don't churches, look, I'm I'm getting I don't churches, look, I'm I'm getting I don't like it. I was on a call yesterday with like it. I was on a call yesterday with like it. I was on a call yesterday with a church and they were like, you know, a church and they were like, you know, a church and they were like, you know, we're 185. I get it. A smaller church. I we're 185. I get it. A smaller church. I we're 185. I get it. A smaller church. I was like, first of all, that's like was like, first of all, that's like was like, first of all, that's like twice as large as the average church. twice as large as the average church. twice as large as the average church. So, like we need to stop with like I'm a So, like we need to stop with like I'm a So, like we need to stop with like I'm a small church. There's like 1% are big small church. There's like 1% are big small church. There's like 1% are big churches, okay? Everyone else is the churches, okay? Everyone else is the churches, okay? Everyone else is the regular church. Anyway, different regular church. Anyway, different regular church. Anyway, different [laughter] different for a different [laughter] different for a different [laughter] different for a different time. time. time. >> So, I'm at this big church. And I just >> So, I'm at this big church. And I just >> So, I'm at this big church. And I just know coming from like the church plants know coming from like the church plants know coming from like the church plants and the smaller churches that I've come and the smaller churches that I've come and the smaller churches that I've come from my whole life. Like, from my whole life. Like, from my whole life. Like, >> this church has a million events >> this church has a million events >> this church has a million events relative to what I'm used to. relative to what I'm used to. relative to what I'm used to. >> And yet, [clears throat] their >> And yet, [clears throat] their >> And yet, [clears throat] their announcements were shorter. announcements were shorter. announcements were shorter. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> They gave fewer announcements. You know, >> They gave fewer announcements. You know, >> They gave fewer announcements. You know, we had a call with uh a podcast with uh we had a call with uh a podcast with uh we had a call with uh a podcast with uh Pastor Luke Simmons of Iron Iron Pastor Luke Simmons of Iron Iron Pastor Luke Simmons of Iron Iron Ironwood. I'm thinking Iron Stone. Ironwood. I'm thinking Iron Stone. Ironwood. I'm thinking Iron Stone. >> That's not a thing. >> That's not a thing. >> That's not a thing. >> I don't think so. I'm sure it's a thing >> I don't think so. I'm sure it's a thing >> I don't think so. I'm sure it's a thing somewhere. somewhere. somewhere. >> Sure. Iron So Church Listing. We're Iron >> Sure. Iron So Church Listing. We're Iron >> Sure. Iron So Church Listing. We're Iron Stone Church. Shouts to you. Ironwood Stone Church. Shouts to you. Ironwood Stone Church. Shouts to you. Ironwood Church. And you know that podcast, if Church. And you know that podcast, if Church. And you know that podcast, if you want to look it up, five small you want to look it up, five small you want to look it up, five small changes most churches should consider changes most churches should consider changes most churches should consider making. And he said, he's like, "We do making. And he said, he's like, "We do making. And he said, he's like, "We do one announcement each week." Like that one announcement each week." Like that one announcement each week." Like that is like the ultimate understanding of is like the ultimate understanding of is like the ultimate understanding of Sunday is not your savior. what is Sunday is not your savior. what is Sunday is not your savior. what is Sunday is not your savior. The idea is Sunday is not your savior. The idea is Sunday is not your savior. The idea is that you can't just give a ministry a that you can't just give a ministry a that you can't just give a ministry a stage announcement and then that will stage announcement and then that will stage announcement and then that will like fix everything.

like fix everything. like fix everything. >> And this is a a piece with inspiration >> And this is a a piece with inspiration >> And this is a a piece with inspiration over information. Um and that's how we over information. Um and that's how we over information. Um and that's how we end up with these like marathon end up with these like marathon end up with these like marathon announcement sessions which again are announcement sessions which again are announcement sessions which again are behind the scenes just appeasing behind the scenes just appeasing behind the scenes just appeasing ministry politics and not at all ministry politics and not at all ministry politics and not at all considering our congregation or considering our congregation or considering our congregation or considering what we're ultimately trying considering what we're ultimately trying considering what we're ultimately trying to accomplish. to accomplish. to accomplish. And the irony again, the paradox is this And the irony again, the paradox is this And the irony again, the paradox is this is that like the more you announce, the is that like the more you announce, the is that like the more you announce, the less they listen. So the inverse is less they listen. So the inverse is less they listen. So the inverse is true. A church that had 10 times as many true. A church that had 10 times as many true. A church that had 10 times as many events going on as my previous church, events going on as my previous church, events going on as my previous church, which had an announcement time that was which had an announcement time that was which had an announcement time that was like three times shorter, like three times shorter, like three times shorter, >> like is that not the ultimate like >> like is that not the ultimate like >> like is that not the ultimate like paradox paradox paradox >> totally >> totally >> totally >> what you would not expect. >> what you would not expect. >> what you would not expect. >> And yet it was in that church where >> And yet it was in that church where >> And yet it was in that church where people were getting more involved and people were getting more involved and people were getting more involved and there was like more active participation there was like more active participation there was like more active participation and there was a more vibrant culture. and there was a more vibrant culture. and there was a more vibrant culture. Um, which I don't know, maybe this is Um, which I don't know, maybe this is Um, which I don't know, maybe this is silly for me to say, but I kind of silly for me to say, but I kind of silly for me to say, but I kind of expected showing up to the big church expected showing up to the big church expected showing up to the big church when I did in my early 20s that I was when I did in my early 20s that I was when I did in my early 20s that I was like, "Oh, great. I'm just here for the like, "Oh, great. I'm just here for the like, "Oh, great. I'm just here for the big show." big show." big show." >> And the big show was like a really great >> And the big show was like a really great >> And the big show was like a really great entry point, but that church really entry point, but that church really entry point, but that church really understood that like if all we if we understood that like if all we if we understood that like if all we if we stop at the big show, like this is the stop at the big show, like this is the stop at the big show, like this is the ultimate failure.

ultimate failure. ultimate failure. >> And there was more people involved there >> And there was more people involved there >> And there was more people involved there proportionally than in many of the proportionally than in many of the proportionally than in many of the previous churches that I had had been previous churches that I had had been previous churches that I had had been in. in. in. >> Sure. And I understand the impulse >> Sure. And I understand the impulse >> Sure. And I understand the impulse because on Sunday it's when you perceive because on Sunday it's when you perceive because on Sunday it's when you perceive that you have the most attention from that you have the most attention from that you have the most attention from the most amount of your people, right? the most amount of your people, right? the most amount of your people, right? Everyone or almost everyone is under the Everyone or almost everyone is under the Everyone or almost everyone is under the same roof at the same time. You've got a same roof at the same time. You've got a same roof at the same time. You've got a microphone in your hand. Your voice is microphone in your hand. Your voice is microphone in your hand. Your voice is amplified. And so I understand the amplified. And so I understand the amplified. And so I understand the impulse or the temptation to give space impulse or the temptation to give space impulse or the temptation to give space to every ministry and now it's every to every ministry and now it's every to every ministry and now it's every group and and try and make an invitation group and and try and make an invitation group and and try and make an invitation for every single next step. But we know for every single next step. But we know for every single next step. But we know this through um you know data like um this through um you know data like um this through um you know data like um research that that involves the paradox research that that involves the paradox research that that involves the paradox of choice but also our experience in of choice but also our experience in of choice but also our experience in larger churches the stories you're larger churches the stories you're larger churches the stories you're telling that like that is not the most telling that like that is not the most telling that like that is not the most effective means to compel people to take effective means to compel people to take effective means to compel people to take next steps. And so what does the larger next steps. And so what does the larger next steps. And so what does the larger church do? Well they lean on it's the church do? Well they lean on it's the church do? Well they lean on it's the intro to this show. Every week we say intro to this show. Every week we say intro to this show. Every week we say we're navigating the biggest we're navigating the biggest we're navigating the biggest communication shift in the last 500 communication shift in the last 500 communication shift in the last 500 years. We have all of these years. We have all of these years. We have all of these communication tools and avenues thanks communication tools and avenues thanks communication tools and avenues thanks to the internet, thanks to, you know, to the internet, thanks to, you know, to the internet, thanks to, you know, owning and operating our own websites, owning and operating our own websites, owning and operating our own websites, our email lists, whatever. We have all our email lists, whatever. We have all our email lists, whatever. We have all these avenues to communicate these very these avenues to communicate these very these avenues to communicate these very same things and we don't have to do it same things and we don't have to do it same things and we don't have to do it from the stage on Sunday. So, we can see from the stage on Sunday. So, we can see from the stage on Sunday. So, we can see from a church like yours at Central when from a church like yours at Central when from a church like yours at Central when you have, you just ran the numbers over you have, you just ran the numbers over you have, you just ran the numbers over 90 days. How many events are going on at 90 days. How many events are going on at 90 days. How many events are going on at your church?

your church? your church? >> Oh, it was like 500 plus in >> Oh, it was like 500 plus in >> Oh, it was like 500 plus in >> Q4. So, like you can't you just can't >> Q4. So, like you can't you just can't >> Q4. So, like you can't you just can't give space to all those on Sunday give space to all those on Sunday give space to all those on Sunday morning. So, what do you do? You morning. So, what do you do? You morning. So, what do you do? You leverage [snorts] tools like planning leverage [snorts] tools like planning leverage [snorts] tools like planning center or your church website or the center or your church website or the center or your church website or the launcher by nucleus. Your your church launcher by nucleus. Your your church launcher by nucleus. Your your church has the launcher installed on your has the launcher installed on your has the launcher installed on your website and you use these tools that are website and you use these tools that are website and you use these tools that are available now to us in the digital age available now to us in the digital age available now to us in the digital age where we live to communicate these where we live to communicate these where we live to communicate these things in a way things in a way things in a way >> that inspires folks to take their next >> that inspires folks to take their next >> that inspires folks to take their next steps. Whereas Sunday morning it's just steps. Whereas Sunday morning it's just steps. Whereas Sunday morning it's just not the time or the place to effectively not the time or the place to effectively not the time or the place to effectively compel people to take those next steps. compel people to take those next steps. compel people to take those next steps. What's also interesting is I have What's also interesting is I have What's also interesting is I have noticed in growing churches that are noticed in growing churches that are noticed in growing churches that are kind of like, hey, we we started at kind of like, hey, we we started at kind of like, hey, we we started at like, you know, a few hundred and now like, you know, a few hundred and now like, you know, a few hundred and now we've grown and we're like, you know, we've grown and we're like, you know, we've grown and we're like, you know, approaching, you know, 5 6 7 800, a approaching, you know, 5 6 7 800, a approaching, you know, 5 6 7 800, a thousand. And what what is also true thousand. And what what is also true thousand. And what what is also true often there is that they're kind of like often there is that they're kind of like often there is that they're kind of like accidentally doing things right, but accidentally doing things right, but accidentally doing things right, but they don't have like the underlying they don't have like the underlying they don't have like the underlying systems. So, they've done a really good systems. So, they've done a really good systems. So, they've done a really good job on like the inspiration over job on like the inspiration over job on like the inspiration over information front and they've purposely information front and they've purposely information front and they've purposely like kept their announcements kind of like kept their announcements kind of like kept their announcements kind of shorter, but they still have like all shorter, but they still have like all shorter, but they still have like all the behind the-scenes kind of ministry the behind the-scenes kind of ministry the behind the-scenes kind of ministry politics and you know what we could call politics and you know what we could call politics and you know what we could call like the 7-day scramble where like you like the 7-day scramble where like you like the 7-day scramble where like you know every week you're like trying to know every week you're like trying to know every week you're like trying to get back. Yeah. Exactly. And and so get back. Yeah. Exactly. And and so get back. Yeah. Exactly. And and so sometimes, you know, curiously sometimes, you know, curiously sometimes, you know, curiously >> and and this gets to the point of this >> and and this gets to the point of this >> and and this gets to the point of this episode which is like there are things episode which is like there are things episode which is like there are things that you can control. there are many that you can control. there are many that you can control. there are many things that are outside of your control things that are outside of your control things that are outside of your control and they're all working together in the and they're all working together in the and they're all working together in the church and the people that you serve and church and the people that you serve and church and the people that you serve and the community and and then there's the the community and and then there's the the community and and then there's the community demographics beyond that. And community demographics beyond that. And community demographics beyond that. And so this this episode is not meant to be so this this episode is not meant to be so this this episode is not meant to be like this silver bullet where I mean like this silver bullet where I mean like this silver bullet where I mean obviously that would be so unrealistic obviously that would be so unrealistic obviously that would be so unrealistic and naive. Um but if you can just like

and naive. Um but if you can just like and naive. Um but if you can just like get some of these little lowhanging get some of these little lowhanging get some of these little lowhanging fruit things right, um you can often fruit things right, um you can often fruit things right, um you can often miss on a lot of the things. But then miss on a lot of the things. But then miss on a lot of the things. But then there does come a point and and this has there does come a point and and this has there does come a point and and this has been the through line with so many calls been the through line with so many calls been the through line with so many calls I've had with churches where they're I've had with churches where they're I've had with churches where they're like, "Hey, you know, when we were 100 like, "Hey, you know, when we were 100 like, "Hey, you know, when we were 100 or two, 300 even, we kind of just relied or two, 300 even, we kind of just relied or two, 300 even, we kind of just relied on the like the 7-day scramble, the on the like the 7-day scramble, the on the like the 7-day scramble, the winging it." And and and now like that winging it." And and and now like that winging it." And and and now like that is fundamentally broken because there's is fundamentally broken because there's is fundamentally broken because there's two, three times as many people and two, two, three times as many people and two, two, three times as many people and two, three times as many needs and the budget three times as many needs and the budget three times as many needs and the budget is twice as large and we can't just is twice as large and we can't just is twice as large and we can't just like, you know, plan a week in advance, like, you know, plan a week in advance, like, you know, plan a week in advance, let's say. let's say. let's say. >> And and that's true of every area of >> And and that's true of every area of >> And and that's true of every area of life as you grow. I've noticed that in life as you grow. I've noticed that in life as you grow. I've noticed that in in this business, right? we have to like in this business, right? we have to like in this business, right? we have to like spec out our travel like 12 to 24 months spec out our travel like 12 to 24 months spec out our travel like 12 to 24 months in advance because if we don't like in advance because if we don't like in advance because if we don't like there's too many moving pieces whereas there's too many moving pieces whereas there's too many moving pieces whereas before famously there was a time where before famously there was a time where before famously there was a time where we were like should we go to Iceland we were like should we go to Iceland we were like should we go to Iceland next week next week next week >> and then [snorts] you did >> and then [snorts] you did >> and then [snorts] you did >> and I did I mean yeah we were much more >> and I did I mean yeah we were much more >> and I did I mean yeah we were much more nimble in those days smaller company nimble in those days smaller company nimble in those days smaller company smaller families smaller families smaller families >> and it's you know it's that it's that >> and it's you know it's that it's that >> and it's you know it's that it's that axiom of you know a smaller ship like axiom of you know a smaller ship like axiom of you know a smaller ship like you can just navigate a small little you can just navigate a small little you can just navigate a small little motorboat in a way that you cannot motorboat in a way that you cannot motorboat in a way that you cannot navigate a cruise ship with 4,000 people navigate a cruise ship with 4,000 people navigate a cruise ship with 4,000 people on it and uh yeah so we experiience It's on it and uh yeah so we experiience It's on it and uh yeah so we experiience It's in a church here at work and and it's in a church here at work and and it's in a church here at work and and it's it's growing pains. But if you if you it's growing pains. But if you if you it's growing pains. But if you if you pay attention as you grow, you know, you pay attention as you grow, you know, you pay attention as you grow, you know, you know that in where I pastor, a very know that in where I pastor, a very know that in where I pastor, a very rural kind of area, but the the kind of rural kind of area, but the the kind of rural kind of area, but the the kind of um creep of these new neighborhoods is um creep of these new neighborhoods is um creep of these new neighborhoods is coming closer. And so we're actually coming closer. And so we're actually coming closer. And so we're actually like in our backyard, a major like in our backyard, a major like in our backyard, a major development is about to happen. And so development is about to happen. And so development is about to happen. And so our our our >> our immediate um you know region is

>> our immediate um you know region is >> our immediate um you know region is going to be growing in a way that it going to be growing in a way that it going to be growing in a way that it hasn't in a very long time. So, if we're hasn't in a very long time. So, if we're hasn't in a very long time. So, if we're aware of that, pay attention now and aware of that, pay attention now and aware of that, pay attention now and start tending to these things now. We start tending to these things now. We start tending to these things now. We set ourselves up for success when I set ourselves up for success when I set ourselves up for success when I don't know how many houses are going to don't know how many houses are going to don't know how many houses are going to be built in between my church and your be built in between my church and your be built in between my church and your church that are currently separated by a church that are currently separated by a church that are currently separated by a country, a country block. But it looks country, a country block. But it looks country, a country block. But it looks like quite a lot. And there's going to like quite a lot. And there's going to like quite a lot. And there's going to be a lot of people looking for a new be a lot of people looking for a new be a lot of people looking for a new local church and they're going to be local church and they're going to be local church and they're going to be knocking on one of one of our doors. knocking on one of one of our doors. knocking on one of one of our doors. >> Yeah, it's been a you know, seven, eight >> Yeah, it's been a you know, seven, eight >> Yeah, it's been a you know, seven, eight months of construction in our entire months of construction in our entire months of construction in our entire little uh little uh little uh >> How long does it take to upgrade a water >> How long does it take to upgrade a water >> How long does it take to upgrade a water man? man? man? >> I don't know. But I, you know, I would >> I don't know. But I, you know, I would >> I don't know. But I, you know, I would have been against it personally. Uh but have been against it personally. Uh but have been against it personally. Uh but it's funny. I remember showing up to the it's funny. I remember showing up to the it's funny. I remember showing up to the town hall meeting and Alex was there cuz town hall meeting and Alex was there cuz town hall meeting and Alex was there cuz he [laughter] he [laughter] he [laughter] >> he understands that the growing churches >> he understands that the growing churches >> he understands that the growing churches are ones where there are growing are ones where there are growing are ones where there are growing neighborhoods and do we want to add you neighborhoods and do we want to add you neighborhoods and do we want to add you know 500 YOU KNOW FAMILY YOU LIVE I VOTE know 500 YOU KNOW FAMILY YOU LIVE I VOTE know 500 YOU KNOW FAMILY YOU LIVE I VOTE YES THIS IS [laughter] GREAT I love this YES THIS IS [laughter] GREAT I love this YES THIS IS [laughter] GREAT I love this and who are you no one just a concerned and who are you no one just a concerned and who are you no one just a concerned citizen [laughter] citizen [laughter] citizen [laughter] all right number three uh growing all right number three uh growing all right number three uh growing churches make the right invitation at churches make the right invitation at churches make the right invitation at the right time so you know we talk about the right time so you know we talk about the right time so you know we talk about the four invitations and they go in the four invitations and they go in the four invitations and they go in order connect Christ community order connect Christ community order connect Christ community collaboration and this is all about collaboration and this is all about collaboration and this is all about understanding disciplehip understanding disciplehip understanding disciplehip >> is a sequential path and that each >> is a sequential path and that each >> is a sequential path and that each invitation that you make as a church in invitation that you make as a church in invitation that you make as a church in order tends to require more commitment.

order tends to require more commitment. order tends to require more commitment. So understanding that you want to match So understanding that you want to match So understanding that you want to match invitation size to like is the audience invitation size to like is the audience invitation size to like is the audience ready for this? So let here's an ready for this? So let here's an ready for this? So let here's an example. I've told this example before example. I've told this example before example. I've told this example before you have trunk or treat. Okay, a lot of you have trunk or treat. Okay, a lot of you have trunk or treat. Okay, a lot of churches have this. If you don't do churches have this. If you don't do churches have this. If you don't do trunk or treat, insert harvest festival, trunk or treat, insert harvest festival, trunk or treat, insert harvest festival, Easter, Christmas, VBS, whatever you Easter, Christmas, VBS, whatever you Easter, Christmas, VBS, whatever you have, the thing where your church have, the thing where your church have, the thing where your church intersects with community. If in that intersects with community. If in that intersects with community. If in that moment you were like, "Okay, guys, we moment you were like, "Okay, guys, we moment you were like, "Okay, guys, we got one chance with these people." Okay, got one chance with these people." Okay, got one chance with these people." Okay, we're going to ask them, "Will you we're going to ask them, "Will you we're going to ask them, "Will you become a recurring giver?" [laughter] become a recurring giver?" [laughter] become a recurring giver?" [laughter] >> Not the time or the place. Read the >> Not the time or the place. Read the >> Not the time or the place. Read the room. There's a famous Seinfeld skit room. There's a famous Seinfeld skit room. There's a famous Seinfeld skit where Jerry has become friends with where Jerry has become friends with where Jerry has become friends with Keith Hernandez who was uh baseball Keith Hernandez who was uh baseball Keith Hernandez who was uh baseball player for the New York Mets. player for the New York Mets. player for the New York Mets. >> And it's really cool at first. Jerry's >> And it's really cool at first. Jerry's >> And it's really cool at first. Jerry's like, "Oh my goodness, like I'm a huge like, "Oh my goodness, like I'm a huge like, "Oh my goodness, like I'm a huge New York Mets fan. I've like I'm now New York Mets fan. I've like I'm now New York Mets fan. I've like I'm now friends with like one of my favorite friends with like one of my favorite friends with like one of my favorite ball players." And then Keith, he comes ball players." And then Keith, he comes ball players." And then Keith, he comes on really fast and he asks Jerry like, on really fast and he asks Jerry like, on really fast and he asks Jerry like, "Can you help me move?" And and Jerry's "Can you help me move?" And and Jerry's "Can you help me move?" And and Jerry's like, "I don't know. Like I I barely like, "I don't know. Like I I barely like, "I don't know. Like I I barely know the guy." Yeah.

know the guy." Yeah. know the guy." Yeah. >> And then Kramer and and George, his >> And then Kramer and and George, his >> And then Kramer and and George, his friends, are both like appalled that friends, are both like appalled that friends, are both like appalled that Keith would even ask. Like, understand, Keith would even ask. Like, understand, Keith would even ask. Like, understand, like you said, read the room. Like, this like you said, read the room. Like, this like you said, read the room. Like, this is coming on way too fast. Now, the is coming on way too fast. Now, the is coming on way too fast. Now, the obvious example that we just used is obvious example that we just used is obvious example that we just used is maybe don't pitch to the people that maybe don't pitch to the people that maybe don't pitch to the people that have coming to church for the first time have coming to church for the first time have coming to church for the first time on Easter. Like, will you sign up to be on Easter. Like, will you sign up to be on Easter. Like, will you sign up to be a recurring giver? a recurring giver? a recurring giver? >> You just want to casually give us 10% of >> You just want to casually give us 10% of >> You just want to casually give us 10% of your income, your income, your income, >> right? And we're talking like gross >> right? And we're talking like gross >> right? And we're talking like gross here. Like, like this is not net, right? here. Like, like this is not net, right? here. Like, like this is not net, right? Like, just want you to be clear. And we Like, just want you to be clear. And we Like, just want you to be clear. And we have people signing you up. So, if you have people signing you up. So, if you have people signing you up. So, if you can just, you know, hit the tip machine can just, you know, hit the tip machine can just, you know, hit the tip machine on the way out, that'd be great. Like, on the way out, that'd be great. Like, on the way out, that'd be great. Like, that's a lot. And that's the obvious that's a lot. And that's the obvious that's a lot. And that's the obvious one. Like, I think most of us can one. Like, I think most of us can one. Like, I think most of us can understand that. But understand that. But understand that. But >> what we don't understand is the smaller >> what we don't understand is the smaller >> what we don't understand is the smaller versions of that. And then what happens versions of that. And then what happens versions of that. And then what happens is you don't have proper hierarchy is you don't have proper hierarchy is you don't have proper hierarchy within your next steps infrastructure within your next steps infrastructure within your next steps infrastructure within like the things that you're within like the things that you're within like the things that you're asking people to do. So, asking people to do. So, asking people to do. So, >> going back to and this all kind of ties >> going back to and this all kind of ties >> going back to and this all kind of ties together the like fewer announcements. together the like fewer announcements. together the like fewer announcements. >> Yeah. If you have to choose, okay, we >> Yeah. If you have to choose, okay, we >> Yeah. If you have to choose, okay, we can only give like three or fewer can only give like three or fewer can only give like three or fewer announcements on a Sunday, which is kind announcements on a Sunday, which is kind announcements on a Sunday, which is kind of our recommendation. Hey, Pastor Luke of our recommendation. Hey, Pastor Luke of our recommendation. Hey, Pastor Luke at Ironwood said one only, right? Right.

at Ironwood said one only, right? Right. at Ironwood said one only, right? Right. If he's making one only, or if our If he's making one only, or if our If he's making one only, or if our church is making three only, guess what? church is making three only, guess what? church is making three only, guess what? They're the things that apply to the They're the things that apply to the They're the things that apply to the most people. Why? Well, because most people. Why? Well, because most people. Why? Well, because >> that just makes sense. >> that just makes sense. >> that just makes sense. >> So, we're going to get people connected >> So, we're going to get people connected >> So, we're going to get people connected to small groups. We're going to get to small groups. We're going to get to small groups. We're going to get people connected to volunteering. And people connected to volunteering. And people connected to volunteering. And then maybe once they sign up to then maybe once they sign up to then maybe once they sign up to volunteer, then we can talk about, hey, volunteer, then we can talk about, hey, volunteer, then we can talk about, hey, we'd really love for you to volunteer in we'd really love for you to volunteer in we'd really love for you to volunteer in women's ministry. Instead of making the women's ministry. Instead of making the women's ministry. Instead of making the call from stage, we need women's call from stage, we need women's call from stage, we need women's volunteers. And when you understand this volunteers. And when you understand this volunteers. And when you understand this sequential path, again, all sequential path, again, all sequential path, again, all relationships mirror this. relationships mirror this. relationships mirror this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For everyone that's married or engaged >> For everyone that's married or engaged >> For everyone that's married or engaged or seriously dating, like you know, you or seriously dating, like you know, you or seriously dating, like you know, you probably did not propose marriage on the probably did not propose marriage on the probably did not propose marriage on the first date. Like that would be too much, first date. Like that would be too much, first date. Like that would be too much, too fast. And so understanding the four too fast. And so understanding the four too fast. And so understanding the four invitations, okay, connect, Christ, invitations, okay, connect, Christ, invitations, okay, connect, Christ, community, collaboration in that order. community, collaboration in that order. community, collaboration in that order. and then thinking about when to make the and then thinking about when to make the and then thinking about when to make the right invitation. What does it result in right invitation. What does it result in right invitation. What does it result in ultimately? More people getting ultimately? More people getting ultimately? More people getting involved. involved. involved. >> And that is the through line for >> And that is the through line for >> And that is the through line for everything that we're saying here. Our everything that we're saying here. Our everything that we're saying here. Our belief is that the most vibrant churches belief is that the most vibrant churches belief is that the most vibrant churches are ones where the people are active are ones where the people are active are ones where the people are active participants. [clears throat] That is participants. [clears throat] That is participants. [clears throat] That is what a growing church looks like.

what a growing church looks like. what a growing church looks like. >> Yes. And even if that doesn't respond >> Yes. And even if that doesn't respond >> Yes. And even if that doesn't respond immediately numerically, if everyone in immediately numerically, if everyone in immediately numerically, if everyone in your church is growing closer to Jesus, your church is growing closer to Jesus, your church is growing closer to Jesus, sometimes that is like the first step sometimes that is like the first step sometimes that is like the first step before more people kind of come and before more people kind of come and before more people kind of come and join. join. join. >> That's exactly it. And I'm glad you said >> That's exactly it. And I'm glad you said >> That's exactly it. And I'm glad you said it uh and not me because that's the it uh and not me because that's the it uh and not me because that's the metric that in our small rural metric that in our small rural metric that in our small rural congregation congregation congregation >> for now soon you're going to be a mega >> for now soon you're going to be a mega >> for now soon you're going to be a mega church with all these new homes. That's church with all these new homes. That's church with all these new homes. That's the metric as there hasn't been a whole the metric as there hasn't been a whole the metric as there hasn't been a whole lot of development around us and our lot of development around us and our lot of development around us and our area our immediate area has not been not area our immediate area has not been not area our immediate area has not been not been growing in population size. That's been growing in population size. That's been growing in population size. That's been the metric that we've been been the metric that we've been been the metric that we've been concerned about which is okay our concerned about which is okay our concerned about which is okay our congregation is like has always been congregation is like has always been congregation is like has always been about the same size. Our church is 45 about the same size. Our church is 45 about the same size. Our church is 45 years old. Our congregation has always years old. Our congregation has always years old. Our congregation has always been about the same size because when we been about the same size because when we been about the same size because when we look around our neighborhood has always look around our neighborhood has always look around our neighborhood has always been been about the same size. But for been been about the same size. But for been been about the same size. But for the people who belong to our church who the people who belong to our church who the people who belong to our church who say yep this is my faith community at say yep this is my faith community at say yep this is my faith community at the corner of Concession 7 and Queensson the corner of Concession 7 and Queensson the corner of Concession 7 and Queensson Road. Is that person growing in their Road. Is that person growing in their Road. Is that person growing in their journey with Jesus? And that's been our journey with Jesus? And that's been our journey with Jesus? And that's been our concern. And so when you talk about a concern. And so when you talk about a concern. And so when you talk about a growing church, that's if we're going to growing church, that's if we're going to growing church, that's if we're going to try and define it, that would be it. try and define it, that would be it. try and define it, that would be it. It's like, are the people that make up It's like, are the people that make up It's like, are the people that make up the church growing in their journey with the church growing in their journey with the church growing in their journey with Jesus and their apprenticeship to him?

Jesus and their apprenticeship to him? Jesus and their apprenticeship to him? Yes. And if yes, then what happens Yes. And if yes, then what happens Yes. And if yes, then what happens almost invariably is that the group size almost invariably is that the group size almost invariably is that the group size grows on the heels of that or downstream grows on the heels of that or downstream grows on the heels of that or downstream of that as well. of that as well. of that as well. >> Yep. Or if you just have a giant >> Yep. Or if you just have a giant >> Yep. Or if you just have a giant subdivision coming next to your church, subdivision coming next to your church, subdivision coming next to your church, >> that can help. again. Maybe we that >> that can help. again. Maybe we that >> that can help. again. Maybe we that maybe that's all we should be praying maybe that's all we should be praying maybe that's all we should be praying for, [laughter] right? for, [laughter] right? for, [laughter] right? >> Yes. Lord, bring the homes. >> Yes. Lord, bring the homes. >> Yes. Lord, bring the homes. >> Well, I also know that there's like a >> Well, I also know that there's like a >> Well, I also know that there's like a mansion going up across from your mansion going up across from your mansion going up across from your church. Maybe a big giver. You can knock church. Maybe a big giver. You can knock church. Maybe a big giver. You can knock on their door. Hey, on their door. Hey, on their door. Hey, >> that house is really something. >> that house is really something. >> that house is really something. >> I don't think you like that house very >> I don't think you like that house very >> I don't think you like that house very much. much. much. >> I don't care for it. It's It obscures >> I don't care for it. It's It obscures >> I don't care for it. It's It obscures the skyline. And uh the people the skyline. And uh the people the skyline. And uh the people responsible for building it work on responsible for building it work on responsible for building it work on Sundays. Sundays. Sundays. >> Well, let me say this. This is glib. >> Well, let me say this. This is glib. >> Well, let me say this. This is glib. It's glib. I'm saying that ahead of It's glib. I'm saying that ahead of It's glib. I'm saying that ahead of time, but maybe you'll feel differently time, but maybe you'll feel differently time, but maybe you'll feel differently when they come to your church. and the when they come to your church. and the when they come to your church. and the budget. Oh, measurable uptake. Oh, 10% budget. Oh, measurable uptake. Oh, 10% budget. Oh, measurable uptake. Oh, 10% gross. [laughter] gross. [laughter] gross. [laughter] >> Or maybe they're house poor now and they >> Or maybe they're house poor now and they >> Or maybe they're house poor now and they have no one too many garages. Okay, have no one too many garages. Okay, have no one too many garages. Okay, number four. I hinted at this earlier. number four. I hinted at this earlier. number four. I hinted at this earlier. Growing churches build systems while Growing churches build systems while Growing churches build systems while small, not after they're overwhelmed. small, not after they're overwhelmed. small, not after they're overwhelmed. So, I talked about like a [snorts] lot So, I talked about like a [snorts] lot So, I talked about like a [snorts] lot of churches can grow and they just like of churches can grow and they just like of churches can grow and they just like are doing some of the things right and are doing some of the things right and are doing some of the things right and then they get to a certain point and then they get to a certain point and then they get to a certain point and then suddenly the systems have like then suddenly the systems have like then suddenly the systems have like broken down. And what I see with those broken down. And what I see with those broken down. And what I see with those churches is like it's not that their churches is like it's not that their churches is like it's not that their growth becomes like undercut and it just growth becomes like undercut and it just growth becomes like undercut and it just goes backwards, but what happens is like goes backwards, but what happens is like goes backwards, but what happens is like it is chaos behind the scenes and it is chaos behind the scenes and it is chaos behind the scenes and everyone is stressed out because there everyone is stressed out because there everyone is stressed out because there were no systems before were no systems before were no systems before >> and now >> and now >> and now >> there are too many people >> there are too many people >> there are too many people >> and their informal systems have failed >> and their informal systems have failed >> and their informal systems have failed spectacularly and now they're trying to spectacularly and now they're trying to spectacularly and now they're trying to build the plane like while it's flying build the plane like while it's flying build the plane like while it's flying sort of thing. And so what I love and I

sort of thing. And so what I love and I sort of thing. And so what I love and I I I think this is like a predictor I I think this is like a predictor I I think this is like a predictor almost always of growing churches is almost always of growing churches is almost always of growing churches is when they like install these systems or when they like install these systems or when they like install these systems or they abide by these principles before they abide by these principles before they abide by these principles before they're growing, they're growing, they're growing, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Because it's so much easier to install >> Because it's so much easier to install >> Because it's so much easier to install them at that point than when Sunday is them at that point than when Sunday is them at that point than when Sunday is coming and now there's like 600 people coming and now there's like 600 people coming and now there's like 600 people and before you kind of just like, you and before you kind of just like, you and before you kind of just like, you know, texted in a group chat like what know, texted in a group chat like what know, texted in a group chat like what should we announce this weekend? like, should we announce this weekend? like, should we announce this weekend? like, >> oh, we have like Easter in 6 weeks. >> oh, we have like Easter in 6 weeks. >> oh, we have like Easter in 6 weeks. Like, let's kind of we just planned it Like, let's kind of we just planned it Like, let's kind of we just planned it like on the fly like a couple weeks like on the fly like a couple weeks like on the fly like a couple weeks before and now, oh my goodness, like before and now, oh my goodness, like before and now, oh my goodness, like we're stalling out. We were like making we're stalling out. We were like making we're stalling out. We were like making great progress, but now we're stalling great progress, but now we're stalling great progress, but now we're stalling out. And so, that one's an important out. And so, that one's an important out. And so, that one's an important one. And I think that one is actionable one. And I think that one is actionable one. And I think that one is actionable for everyone listening. Like it's for everyone listening. Like it's for everyone listening. Like it's actually easier to install these things actually easier to install these things actually easier to install these things when you're smaller or when you're newer when you're smaller or when you're newer when you're smaller or when you're newer or when like things are stagnant or when like things are stagnant or when like things are stagnant >> because when things are like growing, >> because when things are like growing, >> because when things are like growing, there is so much momentum and so much there is so much momentum and so much there is so much momentum and so much activity that sometimes that's like the activity that sometimes that's like the activity that sometimes that's like the most difficult time to make big changes. most difficult time to make big changes. most difficult time to make big changes. Like we think about this like in the Like we think about this like in the Like we think about this like in the context of parenting like okay my child context of parenting like okay my child context of parenting like okay my child is having a meltdown. Now is not the is having a meltdown. Now is not the is having a meltdown. Now is not the time probably for me to be like all time probably for me to be like all time probably for me to be like all right big family gathering we're having right big family gathering we're having right big family gathering we're having a big meeting we're changing everything.

a big meeting we're changing everything. a big meeting we're changing everything. It's like no you wait till things are It's like no you wait till things are It's like no you wait till things are calmer. And so if you're in a place as a calmer. And so if you're in a place as a calmer. And so if you're in a place as a church, and then we also all go through church, and then we also all go through church, and then we also all go through seasons, right? You're not a perpetually seasons, right? You're not a perpetually seasons, right? You're not a perpetually growing church. You're not always a growing church. You're not always a growing church. You're not always a perpetually declining or stagnant perpetually declining or stagnant perpetually declining or stagnant church. There are seasons. So if you are church. There are seasons. So if you are church. There are seasons. So if you are in one of those quieter seasons, now in one of those quieter seasons, now in one of those quieter seasons, now would be maybe the best time to install would be maybe the best time to install would be maybe the best time to install these things. these things. these things. >> Yeah. There's absolutely no harm in in >> Yeah. There's absolutely no harm in in >> Yeah. There's absolutely no harm in in beginning to talk about, you know, the beginning to talk about, you know, the beginning to talk about, you know, the four invitations. Just like starting to four invitations. Just like starting to four invitations. Just like starting to use that language at your church now and use that language at your church now and use that language at your church now and cultivating it be um installing it as as cultivating it be um installing it as as cultivating it be um installing it as as policy so that you have that language to policy so that you have that language to policy so that you have that language to lean on when the neighborhood has has uh lean on when the neighborhood has has uh lean on when the neighborhood has has uh has been finished and you've got people has been finished and you've got people has been finished and you've got people knocking on your door. Or you could knocking on your door. Or you could knocking on your door. Or you could start reforming your church announcement start reforming your church announcement start reforming your church announcement strategy today. Take what you've been strategy today. Take what you've been strategy today. Take what you've been doing, listing off all of your events doing, listing off all of your events doing, listing off all of your events and and pair it down. Start go to three, and and pair it down. Start go to three, and and pair it down. Start go to three, go to two. Find the courage. Go to one. go to two. Find the courage. Go to one. go to two. Find the courage. Go to one. Lean on the one story plus one next step Lean on the one story plus one next step Lean on the one story plus one next step formula. Start practicing the stuff formula. Start practicing the stuff formula. Start practicing the stuff today when the stakes are pretty low. today when the stakes are pretty low. today when the stakes are pretty low. Don't wait for pressure to necessitate Don't wait for pressure to necessitate Don't wait for pressure to necessitate change because that's human nature, change because that's human nature, change because that's human nature, right? That's kind of our animal nature right? That's kind of our animal nature right? That's kind of our animal nature which is like we wait for the pressure which is like we wait for the pressure which is like we wait for the pressure to come on. It's like okay now I got to to come on. It's like okay now I got to to come on. It's like okay now I got to change. But if we can, change. But if we can, change. But if we can, >> you know, it's even maybe like uh to >> you know, it's even maybe like uh to >> you know, it's even maybe like uh to spiritualize it like it's a bit of a spiritualize it like it's a bit of a spiritualize it like it's a bit of a discipline to like look ahead and start discipline to like look ahead and start discipline to like look ahead and start planning for what we believe to be planning for what we believe to be planning for what we believe to be coming towards us. start kind of laying coming towards us. start kind of laying coming towards us. start kind of laying the groundwork now so that we can care the groundwork now so that we can care the groundwork now so that we can care for people well when you know the uh for people well when you know the uh for people well when you know the uh the increase comes. The Lord brings the the increase comes. The Lord brings the the increase comes. The Lord brings the increase. The scripture says, increase. The scripture says, increase. The scripture says, >> "Oh, the Lord brings the increase."

>> "Oh, the Lord brings the increase." >> "Oh, the Lord brings the increase." Okay, number five. Uh this is the one Okay, number five. Uh this is the one Okay, number five. Uh this is the one that I think has impressed me the most that I think has impressed me the most that I think has impressed me the most with growing churches and that is they with growing churches and that is they with growing churches and that is they are scrappy with resources even when the are scrappy with resources even when the are scrappy with resources even when the budget is big or even when the budget is budget is big or even when the budget is budget is big or even when the budget is growing. I was thinking about personal growing. I was thinking about personal growing. I was thinking about personal finances and this phenomenon that is finances and this phenomenon that is finances and this phenomenon that is known as comfort creep known as comfort creep known as comfort creep >> which is the more money that you make as >> which is the more money that you make as >> which is the more money that you make as a family and you know if you're a family and you know if you're a family and you know if you're listening to this and you're like us listening to this and you're like us listening to this and you're like us you're in your mid-30s you know my hope you're in your mid-30s you know my hope you're in your mid-30s you know my hope and what's likely is that you're making and what's likely is that you're making and what's likely is that you're making more money than when you were 21 you more money than when you were 21 you more money than when you were 21 you know like when we were fresh out of know like when we were fresh out of know like when we were fresh out of Bible college my wife and I like canned Bible college my wife and I like canned Bible college my wife and I like canned soup was a little bit of a luxury like soup was a little bit of a luxury like soup was a little bit of a luxury like oo we can share the can today oh hey um oo we can share the can today oh hey um oo we can share the can today oh hey um >> you get older and what happens is over >> you get older and what happens is over >> you get older and what happens is over time as things increase, you just like time as things increase, you just like time as things increase, you just like start spending more. It's not that like start spending more. It's not that like start spending more. It's not that like suddenly you're saving way more unless suddenly you're saving way more unless suddenly you're saving way more unless you're super super disciplined. And the you're super super disciplined. And the you're super super disciplined. And the churches that I have seen up close that churches that I have seen up close that churches that I have seen up close that are growing, and this is true of smaller are growing, and this is true of smaller are growing, and this is true of smaller churches and larger churches, is that churches and larger churches, is that churches and larger churches, is that they are so scrappy with their they are so scrappy with their they are so scrappy with their resources. And so they make like the resources. And so they make like the resources. And so they make like the dollar go so much further than other dollar go so much further than other dollar go so much further than other churches.

churches. churches. And and with with larger churches, this And and with with larger churches, this And and with with larger churches, this is the one that like blew my mind the is the one that like blew my mind the is the one that like blew my mind the most because like their default position most because like their default position most because like their default position is often like, how can we do this for is often like, how can we do this for is often like, how can we do this for free or how can we do this with like free or how can we do this with like free or how can we do this with like almost no money? And I think maybe what almost no money? And I think maybe what almost no money? And I think maybe what that comes from is the understanding of that comes from is the understanding of that comes from is the understanding of like how much ministry they want to like how much ministry they want to like how much ministry they want to accomplish. But what I also imagine is accomplish. But what I also imagine is accomplish. But what I also imagine is that there's probably a history, a that there's probably a history, a that there's probably a history, a through line that you can draw, which is through line that you can draw, which is through line that you can draw, which is like when they were smaller, they had to like when they were smaller, they had to like when they were smaller, they had to be scrappy. And what they did was be scrappy. And what they did was be scrappy. And what they did was >> they made sure that they kept that as an >> they made sure that they kept that as an >> they made sure that they kept that as an identity trait even as they grew. So, identity trait even as they grew. So, identity trait even as they grew. So, they didn't allow comfort creep to come they didn't allow comfort creep to come they didn't allow comfort creep to come along and say, "Okay, great. Now that we along and say, "Okay, great. Now that we along and say, "Okay, great. Now that we know our budget is bigger, we're going know our budget is bigger, we're going know our budget is bigger, we're going to default to the camera that we can to default to the camera that we can to default to the camera that we can afford, afford, afford, >> even if there was one cheaper, that >> even if there was one cheaper, that >> even if there was one cheaper, that doesn't matter. We're in this bracket doesn't matter. We're in this bracket doesn't matter. We're in this bracket now." now." now." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They push back against that. They cling >> They push back against that. They cling >> They push back against that. They cling to their values rather than like what to their values rather than like what to their values rather than like what their budget says is possible. And then their budget says is possible. And then their budget says is possible. And then what happens? Like if you in your what happens? Like if you in your what happens? Like if you in your personal finances were like living a personal finances were like living a personal finances were like living a very modest lifestyle very modest lifestyle very modest lifestyle relative to what the budget said, you relative to what the budget said, you relative to what the budget said, you would be saving so much more than you would be saving so much more than you would be saving so much more than you could have when you were younger.

could have when you were younger. could have when you were younger. >> And what would that then result in? >> And what would that then result in? >> And what would that then result in? Well, like for personal finances, it Well, like for personal finances, it Well, like for personal finances, it would mean that like inevitably you would mean that like inevitably you would mean that like inevitably you could do things that would otherwise be could do things that would otherwise be could do things that would otherwise be impossible. impossible. impossible. >> Yeah. So in a church context, if you >> Yeah. So in a church context, if you >> Yeah. So in a church context, if you remain scrappy, then suddenly so much remain scrappy, then suddenly so much remain scrappy, then suddenly so much more ministry is being accomplished more ministry is being accomplished more ministry is being accomplished because every dollar is being like because every dollar is being like because every dollar is being like really thought through and you're making really thought through and you're making really thought through and you're making economical choices. So if more ministry economical choices. So if more ministry economical choices. So if more ministry is being done, what happens? More life is being done, what happens? More life is being done, what happens? More life change is happening and downstream of change is happening and downstream of change is happening and downstream of that more people are growing in their that more people are growing in their that more people are growing in their faith. Downstream of that, more people faith. Downstream of that, more people faith. Downstream of that, more people are coming to the church and discovering are coming to the church and discovering are coming to the church and discovering faith or rediscovering faith. And this faith or rediscovering faith. And this faith or rediscovering faith. And this is one of those things where if there's is one of those things where if there's is one of those things where if there's anything that you take away from this anything that you take away from this anything that you take away from this episode, this is the one I think that episode, this is the one I think that episode, this is the one I think that every church can practice. Like, are we every church can practice. Like, are we every church can practice. Like, are we really being scrappy with our resources? really being scrappy with our resources? really being scrappy with our resources? Like, are we looking and saying, "Okay, Like, are we looking and saying, "Okay, Like, are we looking and saying, "Okay, could this be done with, you know, a could this be done with, you know, a could this be done with, you know, a used camera? Could this be done with used camera? Could this be done with used camera? Could this be done with something that was donated?" Like, our something that was donated?" Like, our something that was donated?" Like, our church redid our stage design last year church redid our stage design last year church redid our stage design last year and like we took like old gutters. We and like we took like old gutters. We and like we took like old gutters. We did an episode on this on the Brady did an episode on this on the Brady did an episode on this on the Brady Sheer channel. Like we took old gutters Sheer channel. Like we took old gutters Sheer channel. Like we took old gutters that were donated. When I say donated, I that were donated. When I say donated, I that were donated. When I say donated, I don't mean like, you know, the McMansion don't mean like, you know, the McMansion don't mean like, you know, the McMansion guy guy guy >> discarded.

>> discarded. >> discarded. >> Yes. I don't mean McMansion guy came to >> Yes. I don't mean McMansion guy came to >> Yes. I don't mean McMansion guy came to Alex's church and said, "We're upgrading Alex's church and said, "We're upgrading Alex's church and said, "We're upgrading the sound system. Here's a 70k check." the sound system. Here's a 70k check." the sound system. Here's a 70k check." Like, that wasn't what we mean by Like, that wasn't what we mean by Like, that wasn't what we mean by donated. We mean like, yeah, some guy donated. We mean like, yeah, some guy donated. We mean like, yeah, some guy like was like actually getting rid of like was like actually getting rid of like was like actually getting rid of his old house and was like, "Oh, I got his old house and was like, "Oh, I got his old house and was like, "Oh, I got some gutters." And one of the creative some gutters." And one of the creative some gutters." And one of the creative pastors in the church, and I by creative pastors in the church, and I by creative pastors in the church, and I by creative pastors, I don't mean that was their pastors, I don't mean that was their pastors, I don't mean that was their title. I mean a creative pastor, a title. I mean a creative pastor, a title. I mean a creative pastor, a problem-solving pastor was like, problem-solving pastor was like, problem-solving pastor was like, >> "What if we used those?" And like, >> "What if we used those?" And like, >> "What if we used those?" And like, normally, I would think as someone that normally, I would think as someone that normally, I would think as someone that is not charged with the budget, like, is not charged with the budget, like, is not charged with the budget, like, "Well, why don't we just like spend 10k "Well, why don't we just like spend 10k "Well, why don't we just like spend 10k on stage design?" We can. we could, but on stage design?" We can. we could, but on stage design?" We can. we could, but if we didn't, maybe that could go if we didn't, maybe that could go if we didn't, maybe that could go elsewhere. And when that default elsewhere. And when that default elsewhere. And when that default position on all decisions is like position on all decisions is like position on all decisions is like scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, it scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, it scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, it all adds up. all adds up. all adds up. >> And this is something that I think a >> And this is something that I think a >> And this is something that I think a church that has ever been smaller knows church that has ever been smaller knows church that has ever been smaller knows um innately because when you are a um innately because when you are a um innately because when you are a smaller church and resources are very smaller church and resources are very smaller church and resources are very thin, sometimes it's just like how are thin, sometimes it's just like how are thin, sometimes it's just like how are we going to pay the mortgage this month? we going to pay the mortgage this month? we going to pay the mortgage this month? You have to think this way. You have to You have to think this way. You have to You have to think this way. You have to approach ministry this way. But like you approach ministry this way. But like you approach ministry this way. But like you said, and it's it's a perfect example of said, and it's it's a perfect example of said, and it's it's a perfect example of the money we made at 21 is so much the money we made at 21 is so much the money we made at 21 is so much different from the money we make at in different from the money we make at in different from the money we make at in our mid-30s. As as the church grows, as our mid-30s. As as the church grows, as our mid-30s. As as the church grows, as the Lord brings the increase, the budget the Lord brings the increase, the budget the Lord brings the increase, the budget expands. And if you're not mindful or if expands. And if you're not mindful or if expands. And if you're not mindful or if you don't codify it as a value when you don't codify it as a value when you don't codify it as a value when you're smaller and you're practicing it, you're smaller and you're practicing it, you're smaller and you're practicing it, it's so easy, again, human nature, it's it's so easy, again, human nature, it's it's so easy, again, human nature, it's so easy to forget. So for any church so easy to forget. So for any church so easy to forget. So for any church that's listening and you're like, "Yeah, that's listening and you're like, "Yeah, that's listening and you're like, "Yeah, this is how like we we we are doing this this is how like we we we are doing this this is how like we we we are doing this right now because we have to." Again, right now because we have to." Again, right now because we have to." Again, necessity. Take a moment with your with necessity. Take a moment with your with necessity. Take a moment with your with your your church community, your your your church community, your your your church community, your leaders, and codify this as a value now leaders, and codify this as a value now leaders, and codify this as a value now so that you can hang on to that as the so that you can hang on to that as the so that you can hang on to that as the Lord brings the increase, as the new

Lord brings the increase, as the new Lord brings the increase, as the new neighbors move in, as your church grows, neighbors move in, as your church grows, neighbors move in, as your church grows, and you can't forget it because you've and you can't forget it because you've and you can't forget it because you've codified it. This is a value that we codified it. This is a value that we codified it. This is a value that we established when we were smaller and we established when we were smaller and we established when we were smaller and we can continue to embody it as we grow can continue to embody it as we grow can continue to embody it as we grow larger. larger. larger. >> Absolutely. So, these are some of the >> Absolutely. So, these are some of the >> Absolutely. So, these are some of the things that I've identified with growing things that I've identified with growing things that I've identified with growing churches in my attendance, in my churches in my attendance, in my churches in my attendance, in my serving, in my conversations with so serving, in my conversations with so serving, in my conversations with so many churches around the world. But many churches around the world. But many churches around the world. But there are surely many more. And aside there are surely many more. And aside there are surely many more. And aside from our really insightful look at is a from our really insightful look at is a from our really insightful look at is a subdivision going up next to your subdivision going up next to your subdivision going up next to your church. Uh we'd love to hear yours. So church. Uh we'd love to hear yours. So church. Uh we'd love to hear yours. So throw those in the comments. And thanks throw those in the comments. And thanks throw those in the comments. And thanks as always for your [music] time, as always for your [music] time, as always for your [music] time, attention, and trust. We will talk to attention, and trust. We will talk to attention, and trust. We will talk to you next week. Forgot to wear a watch you next week. Forgot to wear a watch you next week. Forgot to wear a watch today. today. today. >> It's like you're already on island time. >> It's like you're already on island time. >> It's like you're already on island time. >> Well, I can tell you exactly what it is. >> Well, I can tell you exactly what it is. >> Well, I can tell you exactly what it is. [music] [music] [music] I keep my watches on my dresser. I keep my watches on my dresser. I keep my watches on my dresser. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And there is >> And there is >> And there is many things [music] currently obscuring many things [music] currently obscuring many things [music] currently obscuring that part of my dresser. I.e. Travel that part of my dresser. I.e. Travel that part of my dresser. I.e. Travel outfits for tomorrow. outfits for tomorrow. outfits for tomorrow. >> M >> M >> M >> out of sight, [music] out of mind. >> out of sight, [music] out of mind. >> out of sight, [music] out of mind. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> there's a sermon illustration in there >> there's a sermon illustration in there >> there's a sermon illustration in there somewhere.