We Put 8 Popular Church Trends on Trial

Churches are constantly borrowing, Churches are constantly borrowing, adapting, and experimenting with new adapting, and experimenting with new adapting, and experimenting with new ideas. But not all trends are [music] ideas. But not all trends are [music] ideas. But not all trends are [music] made equal. Sometimes, trends genuinely made equal. Sometimes, trends genuinely made equal. Sometimes, trends genuinely move the mission of church forward. move the mission of church forward. move the mission of church forward. Other times, maybe most [music] times, Other times, maybe most [music] times, Other times, maybe most [music] times, we end up just recycling the same thing we end up just recycling the same thing we end up just recycling the same thing over and over again. So, today we're over and over again. So, today we're over and over again. So, today we're putting popular church trends on trial. putting popular church trends on trial. putting popular church trends on trial. [music] For each one, we'll make the [music] For each one, we'll make the [music] For each one, we'll make the case, reveal our individual verdict, and case, reveal our individual verdict, and case, reveal our individual verdict, and decide, are we going to kill it, keep decide, are we going to kill it, keep decide, are we going to kill it, keep it, or reinvent it? Let's dive in. it, or reinvent it? Let's dive in. it, or reinvent it? Let's dive in. Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tools Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. We call him the always by my co-host. We call him the always by my co-host. We call him the righteous roster. It's Alexander Mills. righteous roster. It's Alexander Mills. righteous roster. It's Alexander Mills. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. >> Today, keep kill or reinvent. We've got >> Today, keep kill or reinvent. We've got >> Today, keep kill or reinvent. We've got eight popular church friend uh church eight popular church friend uh church eight popular church friend uh church trends. trends. trends. >> We're going to give our take on them, >> We're going to give our take on them, >> We're going to give our take on them, whether we think that these deserve to whether we think that these deserve to whether we think that these deserve to stick around and that they have genuine stick around and that they have genuine stick around and that they have genuine value. some that are, you know, they're value. some that are, you know, they're value. some that are, you know, they're kind of there and we would do some kind of there and we would do some kind of there and we would do some tweaking and others that are like tweaking and others that are like tweaking and others that are like personally personally not to my taste. personally personally not to my taste. personally personally not to my taste. >> And these are not just social trends. >> And these are not just social trends. >> And these are not just social trends. We've done episodes similar to this in We've done episodes similar to this in We've done episodes similar to this in the past, maybe when we tackle, you the past, maybe when we tackle, you the past, maybe when we tackle, you know, a full handful of social trends, know, a full handful of social trends, know, a full handful of social trends, but our trends that we picked for but our trends that we picked for but our trends that we picked for today's episode, a little bit more of a today's episode, a little bit more of a today's episode, a little bit more of a broad range of things going on in church broad range of things going on in church broad range of things going on in church currently.

currently. currently. >> That's right. First one, why don't you >> That's right. First one, why don't you >> That's right. First one, why don't you take it away? take it away? take it away? >> This is the 360 degree stage. You're >> This is the 360 degree stage. You're >> This is the 360 degree stage. You're going to want to watch this episode going to want to watch this episode going to want to watch this episode probably. If you're listening, that's probably. If you're listening, that's probably. If you're listening, that's fine. and we'll do our best to describe fine. and we'll do our best to describe fine. and we'll do our best to describe some of these things, but there's going some of these things, but there's going some of these things, but there's going to be some visual elements to what we're to be some visual elements to what we're to be some visual elements to what we're talking about here. You're going to want talking about here. You're going to want talking about here. You're going to want to see this one. The 360° stage. to see this one. The 360° stage. to see this one. The 360° stage. >> I feel like the first time I would have >> I feel like the first time I would have >> I feel like the first time I would have seen this was like a decade ago, maybe. seen this was like a decade ago, maybe. seen this was like a decade ago, maybe. >> It's not new. No, but it's becoming >> It's not new. No, but it's becoming >> It's not new. No, but it's becoming increasingly the default, especially for increasingly the default, especially for increasingly the default, especially for the churches that are pushing the limits the churches that are pushing the limits the churches that are pushing the limits on creative. So, we want you to imagine on creative. So, we want you to imagine on creative. So, we want you to imagine like it's maybe a church conference or like it's maybe a church conference or like it's maybe a church conference or it's a youth event or a concert where a it's a youth event or a concert where a it's a youth event or a concert where a big church band is traveling, a worship big church band is traveling, a worship big church band is traveling, a worship band is traveling to your city. And they band is traveling to your city. And they band is traveling to your city. And they set up the stage in such a way where set up the stage in such a way where set up the stage in such a way where it's not the typical stage where there's it's not the typical stage where there's it's not the typical stage where there's the front of the stage and you'd have the front of the stage and you'd have the front of the stage and you'd have access only to if you had front row access only to if you had front row access only to if you had front row tickets, I could go all the way up to tickets, I could go all the way up to tickets, I could go all the way up to the front of the stage. I'm at a youth the front of the stage. I'm at a youth the front of the stage. I'm at a youth conference. I'm going all the way to the conference. I'm going all the way to the conference. I'm going all the way to the front of the stage. Instead, the stage front of the stage. Instead, the stage front of the stage. Instead, the stage has four sides. has four sides. has four sides. >> Yeah. and all of them are accessible or >> Yeah. and all of them are accessible or >> Yeah. and all of them are accessible or almost all of them are accessible.

almost all of them are accessible. almost all of them are accessible. >> It's a really interesting configuration >> It's a really interesting configuration >> It's a really interesting configuration because in some ways it puts the worship because in some ways it puts the worship because in some ways it puts the worship team in the center, team in the center, team in the center, not elevated. They are still on a not elevated. They are still on a not elevated. They are still on a platform, but they're kind of like in platform, but they're kind of like in platform, but they're kind of like in the crowd because the crowd is the crowd because the crowd is the crowd because the crowd is surrounding them and so they're almost surrounding them and so they're almost surrounding them and so they're almost just part of the crowd. And I think just part of the crowd. And I think just part of the crowd. And I think philosophically, missionally, there's philosophically, missionally, there's philosophically, missionally, there's something to that. I remember when I something to that. I remember when I something to that. I remember when I started going to the Pentecostal church started going to the Pentecostal church started going to the Pentecostal church as a teenager because I grew up in this as a teenager because I grew up in this as a teenager because I grew up in this really small Baptist church. We had an really small Baptist church. We had an really small Baptist church. We had an acoustic guitar. Pastor used just his acoustic guitar. Pastor used just his acoustic guitar. Pastor used just his voice from the pulpit. It was like 12 voice from the pulpit. It was like 12 voice from the pulpit. It was like 12 people. So I start going to the people. So I start going to the people. So I start going to the Pentecostal youth group because my Pentecostal youth group because my Pentecostal youth group because my parents are like, "Hey, your faith needs parents are like, "Hey, your faith needs parents are like, "Hey, your faith needs to be your own." And I'm like, "Wow, to be your own." And I'm like, "Wow, to be your own." And I'm like, "Wow, they got drums here and they've got they got drums here and they've got they got drums here and they've got microphones. They have like multiple microphones. They have like multiple microphones. They have like multiple singers. There's like backup singers. singers. There's like backup singers. singers. There's like backup singers. There's a guitarist that's plugged in to There's a guitarist that's plugged in to There's a guitarist that's plugged in to some type of electricity." [laughter] some type of electricity." [laughter] some type of electricity." [laughter] >> Electricity. >> Electricity. >> Electricity. >> We're not at church. We were not that in >> We're not at church. We were not that in >> We're not at church. We were not that in a Baptist church out in the country. And a Baptist church out in the country. And a Baptist church out in the country. And I remember having a conversation with my I remember having a conversation with my I remember having a conversation with my dad dad dad where he said, "I don't like how the where he said, "I don't like how the where he said, "I don't like how the worship band is up on a platform."

worship band is up on a platform." worship band is up on a platform." >> And we had an old Pentecostal church, so >> And we had an old Pentecostal church, so >> And we had an old Pentecostal church, so the platform had three steps to get up the platform had three steps to get up the platform had three steps to get up to it and everything was purple carpet. to it and everything was purple carpet. to it and everything was purple carpet. >> So it didn't even look like a platform. >> So it didn't even look like a platform. >> So it didn't even look like a platform. Like yes, it was technically three Like yes, it was technically three Like yes, it was technically three steps, steps, steps, >> but it was not a platform in a way that >> but it was not a platform in a way that >> but it was not a platform in a way that you might be thinking about. This was you might be thinking about. This was you might be thinking about. This was his suggestion. He's like, "I don't his suggestion. He's like, "I don't his suggestion. He's like, "I don't think our eyes should be on the people think our eyes should be on the people think our eyes should be on the people on the stage. on the stage. on the stage. >> Our focus should be on God." I was like, >> Our focus should be on God." I was like, >> Our focus should be on God." I was like, "Okay, fair enough." He's like, "Your "Okay, fair enough." He's like, "Your "Okay, fair enough." He's like, "Your church has a basement. [laughter] church has a basement. [laughter] church has a basement. [laughter] >> You should set up the worship team >> You should set up the worship team >> You should set up the worship team downstairs, downstairs, downstairs, right? We've got electricity. We can get right? We've got electricity. We can get right? We've got electricity. We can get the sound up." you guys have electricity the sound up." you guys have electricity the sound up." you guys have electricity at this church at this church at this church >> and and then and then like pipe the >> and and then and then like pipe the >> and and then and then like pipe the music upstairs and then we're just like music upstairs and then we're just like music upstairs and then we're just like looking at like the cross or the stain looking at like the cross or the stain looking at like the cross or the stain or we're not looking at anything in or we're not looking at anything in or we're not looking at anything in particular. They're all downstairs. particular. They're all downstairs. particular. They're all downstairs. >> I love you, Dad. >> I love you, Dad. >> I love you, Dad. >> I was like, what? >> I was like, what? >> I was like, what? >> Watch. That'll be the next church trend. >> Watch. That'll be the next church trend. >> Watch. That'll be the next church trend. This time next year, we're going to be This time next year, we're going to be This time next year, we're going to be putting worship bands in the basement. putting worship bands in the basement. putting worship bands in the basement. >> I was like, Dad, do you also want the >> I was like, Dad, do you also want the >> I was like, Dad, do you also want the pastor to like preach from behind a pastor to like preach from behind a pastor to like preach from behind a black curtain so you never have to like black curtain so you never have to like black curtain so you never have to like look at him? Like, it's worship leading.

look at him? Like, it's worship leading. look at him? Like, it's worship leading. the preaching matters because you have a the preaching matters because you have a the preaching matters because you have a person that is taking the scriptures and person that is taking the scriptures and person that is taking the scriptures and there's like them pulling it out and there's like them pulling it out and there's like them pulling it out and humans connect with humans and we all humans connect with humans and we all humans connect with humans and we all bear the image and likeness of God. And bear the image and likeness of God. And bear the image and likeness of God. And so like is it not even better to like so like is it not even better to like so like is it not even better to like worship in community with others, worship in community with others, worship in community with others, looking at others and being inspired by looking at others and being inspired by looking at others and being inspired by others worshiping than looking at like a others worshiping than looking at like a others worshiping than looking at like a black curtain that does not bear the black curtain that does not bear the black curtain that does not bear the likeness of God. That's not really the likeness of God. That's not really the likeness of God. That's not really the point. The point is it's a very funny point. The point is it's a very funny point. The point is it's a very funny story and that there is something to story and that there is something to story and that there is something to elevating people on a platform and that elevating people on a platform and that elevating people on a platform and that look I'm look I'm look I'm >> I'm not the type to like make a big deal >> I'm not the type to like make a big deal >> I'm not the type to like make a big deal about that. But I understand the critics about that. But I understand the critics about that. But I understand the critics and there's something there because and there's something there because and there's something there because we're all humans and we're all prone to we're all humans and we're all prone to we're all humans and we're all prone to idolatry if we don't weed it out of us. idolatry if we don't weed it out of us. idolatry if we don't weed it out of us. And being on the stage might make us And being on the stage might make us And being on the stage might make us feel some type of way. Seeing others on feel some type of way. Seeing others on feel some type of way. Seeing others on the stage might make us feel some type the stage might make us feel some type the stage might make us feel some type of way. I think there's something to the of way. I think there's something to the of way. I think there's something to the 360° stage 360° stage 360° stage >> that I don't know undercuts that just >> that I don't know undercuts that just >> that I don't know undercuts that just just a touch. just a touch. just a touch. >> I think you're right. I think you're >> I think you're right. I think you're >> I think you're right. I think you're putting your finger on something. It It putting your finger on something. It It putting your finger on something. It It reminds me of the famous Canadian reminds me of the famous Canadian reminds me of the famous Canadian philosopher who said, "The medium is the philosopher who said, "The medium is the philosopher who said, "The medium is the message." I I don't know who did the message." I I don't know who did the message." I I don't know who did the 360° stage for the first time. 360° stage for the first time. 360° stage for the first time. >> It was also Marshall McLuhan.

>> It was also Marshall McLuhan. >> It was also Marshall McLuhan. >> Yeah. But I would guess that that was >> Yeah. But I would guess that that was >> Yeah. But I would guess that that was part of like the motivating um energy part of like the motivating um energy part of like the motivating um energy behind it which is like okay how do we behind it which is like okay how do we behind it which is like okay how do we kind of decentralize although the 360 kind of decentralize although the 360 kind of decentralize although the 360 degrees 60° stage is still in the center degrees 60° stage is still in the center degrees 60° stage is still in the center it does kind of decentralize or it does kind of decentralize or it does kind of decentralize or deprioritize deprioritize deprioritize the the celebrity of it the the thing the the celebrity of it the the thing the the celebrity of it the the thing where everyone's looking up and at the where everyone's looking up and at the where everyone's looking up and at the thing it kind of feels like we're all thing it kind of feels like we're all thing it kind of feels like we're all doing this together and it's like church doing this together and it's like church doing this together and it's like church size agnostic like maybe the first time size agnostic like maybe the first time size agnostic like maybe the first time you saw it was at I don't know passion you saw it was at I don't know passion you saw it was at I don't know passion conference or something that's one of my conference or something that's one of my conference or something that's one of my earliest memories of this stage earliest memories of this stage earliest memories of this stage configuration. But lately, I'm seeing configuration. But lately, I'm seeing configuration. But lately, I'm seeing like all these little churches or like like all these little churches or like like all these little churches or like small worship nights uh on Instagram. small worship nights uh on Instagram. small worship nights uh on Instagram. I'm seeing them pop up and they seem to I'm seeing them pop up and they seem to I'm seeing them pop up and they seem to really be leaning into this 360°ree like really be leaning into this 360°ree like really be leaning into this 360°ree like in the round type of um orientation. And in the round type of um orientation. And in the round type of um orientation. And it doesn't always have to be a stage. it doesn't always have to be a stage. it doesn't always have to be a stage. Like there's a a worship night. Uh I Like there's a a worship night. Uh I Like there's a a worship night. Uh I forget what it's called. It's here in forget what it's called. It's here in forget what it's called. It's here in Hamilton. And they just have a carpet in Hamilton. And they just have a carpet in Hamilton. And they just have a carpet in the middle and like the little band is the middle and like the little band is the middle and like the little band is there and the band's looking at each there and the band's looking at each there and the band's looking at each other, right? They're looking towards other, right? They're looking towards other, right? They're looking towards each other and everyone else is just each other and everyone else is just each other and everyone else is just kind of gathered around. And that medium kind of gathered around. And that medium kind of gathered around. And that medium kind of communicates that we're all kind of communicates that we're all kind of communicates that we're all gathering around the thing we're singing gathering around the thing we're singing gathering around the thing we're singing about about about >> rather than, you know, observing or >> rather than, you know, observing or >> rather than, you know, observing or receiving or being entertained by the receiving or being entertained by the receiving or being entertained by the thing that we're all looking up at. So, thing that we're all looking up at. So, thing that we're all looking up at. So, I really do think there is something I really do think there is something I really do think there is something there. So, are we keeping this? Are we there. So, are we keeping this? Are we there. So, are we keeping this? Are we killing this? What are we doing with killing this? What are we doing with killing this? What are we doing with this?

this? this? >> So, I want I want to I want to keep it, >> So, I want I want to I want to keep it, >> So, I want I want to I want to keep it, but I've also never been in a room that but I've also never been in a room that but I've also never been in a room that has it. has it. has it. >> And so, not true. >> And so, not true. >> And so, not true. >> What? >> What? >> What? >> Not a church room. >> Not a church room. >> Not a church room. >> You and I saw Sebastian Maniscalo at the >> You and I saw Sebastian Maniscalo at the >> You and I saw Sebastian Maniscalo at the Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. 20,000 Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. 20,000 Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. 20,000 people in there. people in there. people in there. >> Okay. Yes, you're right. >> Okay. Yes, you're right. >> Okay. Yes, you're right. >> And he wasn't on the stage. He was down >> And he wasn't on the stage. He was down >> And he wasn't on the stage. He was down center ice stage in the round. center ice stage in the round. center ice stage in the round. >> You're right. That's the same [laughter] >> You're right. That's the same [laughter] >> You're right. That's the same [laughter] thing. thing. thing. >> That show sucks, man. I I had such high >> That show sucks, man. I I had such high >> That show sucks, man. I I had such high hopes for that show. hopes for that show. hopes for that show. >> Honestly, I thought the stage was a bit >> Honestly, I thought the stage was a bit >> Honestly, I thought the stage was a bit awkward for a one-man comedic show awkward for a one-man comedic show awkward for a one-man comedic show because he kind of had to keep walking because he kind of had to keep walking because he kind of had to keep walking around to make like attention with around to make like attention with around to make like attention with everyone and not just give a whole group everyone and not just give a whole group everyone and not just give a whole group of the room his back. of the room his back. of the room his back. >> Yes. where at a comedy show you are >> Yes. where at a comedy show you are >> Yes. where at a comedy show you are looking up at one central figure looking looking up at one central figure looking looking up at one central figure looking to be entertained by that person that to be entertained by that person that to be entertained by that person that didn't work as well for Another example didn't work as well for Another example didn't work as well for Another example of this which is wrestling [laughter] of this which is wrestling [laughter] of this which is wrestling [laughter] >> which we have also seen at the Scotia >> which we have also seen at the Scotia >> which we have also seen at the Scotia Bank Arena Bank Arena Bank Arena >> right so let's say WWE wrestling the >> right so let's say WWE wrestling the >> right so let's say WWE wrestling the squared circle very similar to the squared circle very similar to the squared circle very similar to the comedian stage that we were at in a comedian stage that we were at in a comedian stage that we were at in a stadium in an arena stadium in an arena stadium in an arena >> in wrestling they have the side where >> in wrestling they have the side where >> in wrestling they have the side where the camera is the camera is the camera is >> and the performers when they're talking >> and the performers when they're talking >> and the performers when they're talking on the mic are always looking in that on the mic are always looking in that on the mic are always looking in that one direction. So if you're seated on one direction. So if you're seated on one direction. So if you're seated on the other side you're always getting the the other side you're always getting the the other side you're always getting the back of them. They might turn around for back of them. They might turn around for back of them. They might turn around for a second.

a second. a second. >> You get to hold up a a sign because you >> You get to hold up a a sign because you >> You get to hold up a a sign because you get to hold up a sign. Yes. get to hold up a sign. Yes. get to hold up a sign. Yes. >> I got tombstone by the Undertaker. >> I got tombstone by the Undertaker. >> I got tombstone by the Undertaker. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> And you know, sometimes the talent will >> And you know, sometimes the talent will >> And you know, sometimes the talent will turn around and like engage that, but turn around and like engage that, but turn around and like engage that, but then they go right back to the camera then they go right back to the camera then they go right back to the camera because it's a medium for television because it's a medium for television because it's a medium for television first and foremost. That's where most of first and foremost. That's where most of first and foremost. That's where most of the audience is. For a live comedy show, the audience is. For a live comedy show, the audience is. For a live comedy show, you kind of have to work every side of you kind of have to work every side of you kind of have to work every side of the room. That's very challenging. Like the room. That's very challenging. Like the room. That's very challenging. Like they don't even try to do it in they don't even try to do it in they don't even try to do it in wrestling. Obviously, worship is wrestling. Obviously, worship is wrestling. Obviously, worship is different because you have multiple different because you have multiple different because you have multiple people on the stage. But my thing is, is people on the stage. But my thing is, is people on the stage. But my thing is, is this like impossible for sound? this like impossible for sound? this like impossible for sound? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Because if I'm at a traditional concert, >> Because if I'm at a traditional concert, >> Because if I'm at a traditional concert, >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> I'm getting the speakers pointed at >> I'm getting the speakers pointed at >> I'm getting the speakers pointed at everyone who's seated in different parts everyone who's seated in different parts everyone who's seated in different parts of the room but the same configuration. of the room but the same configuration. of the room but the same configuration. >> Like what if you just get put next to >> Like what if you just get put next to >> Like what if you just get put next to like the high hats? like the high hats? like the high hats? >> Yeah. Tough. >> Yeah. Tough. >> Yeah. Tough. >> It's like just like the whole time. Like >> It's like just like the whole time. Like >> It's like just like the whole time. Like >> that's a challenge. >> that's a challenge. >> that's a challenge. >> Is it a sound tech nightmare >> Is it a sound tech nightmare >> Is it a sound tech nightmare >> for a smaller room? Certainly. >> for a smaller room? Certainly. >> for a smaller room? Certainly. >> The lighting is also really interesting. >> The lighting is also really interesting. >> The lighting is also really interesting. Have you seen the way that they do Have you seen the way that they do Have you seen the way that they do lighting for this? Yeah. Like, and there lighting for this? Yeah. Like, and there lighting for this? Yeah. Like, and there are different ways, right? One way is is are different ways, right? One way is is are different ways, right? One way is is the small version where they turn all the small version where they turn all the small version where they turn all the lights down. They just put some the lights down. They just put some the lights down. They just put some Edison bulbs in the middle and like Edison bulbs in the middle and like Edison bulbs in the middle and like every it's like kind of by candle light.

every it's like kind of by candle light. every it's like kind of by candle light. >> Yeah. Because it's really hard to do the >> Yeah. Because it's really hard to do the >> Yeah. Because it's really hard to do the typical lighting because you'd be like typical lighting because you'd be like typical lighting because you'd be like shining beams through people. So then shining beams through people. So then shining beams through people. So then the other like high production solution the other like high production solution the other like high production solution is where they take the same LED mats is where they take the same LED mats is where they take the same LED mats that they'll use for like car shows that they'll use for like car shows that they'll use for like car shows >> and they're like the size of like the >> and they're like the size of like the >> and they're like the size of like the roof of this room and they have these roof of this room and they have these roof of this room and they have these beautiful cinematic fall-offs and what beautiful cinematic fall-offs and what beautiful cinematic fall-offs and what it does like is it illuminates the stage it does like is it illuminates the stage it does like is it illuminates the stage >> but you don't have these like lights >> but you don't have these like lights >> but you don't have these like lights with these beams and spotlights that are with these beams and spotlights that are with these beams and spotlights that are like going through people or shooting like going through people or shooting like going through people or shooting past someone and hitting their eyes. So past someone and hitting their eyes. So past someone and hitting their eyes. So it changes so much of the configuration it changes so much of the configuration it changes so much of the configuration of the room with the sound and the of the room with the sound and the of the room with the sound and the lighting. Not to me like not to mention lighting. Not to me like not to mention lighting. Not to me like not to mention just like oh and it's nice when we all just like oh and it's nice when we all just like oh and it's nice when we all get around. So get around. So get around. So >> my concern was like someone pitches this >> my concern was like someone pitches this >> my concern was like someone pitches this in church in church in church >> and then like the sound and production >> and then like the sound and production >> and then like the sound and production guys are like no no no no like I know it guys are like no no no no like I know it guys are like no no no no like I know it would be really cool but here are all would be really cool but here are all would be really cool but here are all the logistical nightmares. So if if the logistical nightmares. So if if the logistical nightmares. So if if that's you like let us know. I would that's you like let us know. I would that's you like let us know. I would like to know. like to know. like to know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Do you want to keep it? I'm going to >> Do you want to keep it? I'm going to >> Do you want to keep it? I'm going to keep it. keep it. keep it. >> Yeah. Keep it for sure. >> Yeah. Keep it for sure. >> Yeah. Keep it for sure. >> Okay. Great. Great. cuz you it's nice >> Okay. Great. Great. cuz you it's nice >> Okay. Great. Great. cuz you it's nice you can do a lowfi version or you can do a lowfi version or you can do a lowfi version or >> high production version.

>> high production version. >> high production version. >> Okay, this next one uh came across both >> Okay, this next one uh came across both >> Okay, this next one uh came across both of our Instagram feeds which is super of our Instagram feeds which is super of our Instagram feeds which is super cool. The first time I saw it was just cool. The first time I saw it was just cool. The first time I saw it was just um it's the pyramid projector and the um it's the pyramid projector and the um it's the pyramid projector and the first time I saw it, it was a clip from first time I saw it, it was a clip from first time I saw it, it was a clip from the worship night and the projector the worship night and the projector the worship night and the projector immediately stood out to me. I was like, immediately stood out to me. I was like, immediately stood out to me. I was like, "What is that? I've never seen anything "What is that? I've never seen anything "What is that? I've never seen anything like that." And then it was maybe a week like that." And then it was maybe a week like that." And then it was maybe a week or two later, I saw a behind-the-scenes or two later, I saw a behind-the-scenes or two later, I saw a behind-the-scenes video where it was like, "Okay, video where it was like, "Okay, video where it was like, "Okay, everyone's asking about this projector. everyone's asking about this projector. everyone's asking about this projector. Here's how we made it." So this is the Here's how we made it." So this is the Here's how we made it." So this is the pyramid projector. pyramid projector. pyramid projector. >> Yeah. And incidentally also worshiping >> Yeah. And incidentally also worshiping >> Yeah. And incidentally also worshiping all on the ground spread out. This is all on the ground spread out. This is all on the ground spread out. This is like really spread out which is like really spread out which is like really spread out which is interesting. interesting. interesting. >> This post right now has 30,000 likes. >> This post right now has 30,000 likes. >> This post right now has 30,000 likes. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> They say monoculture is dead and that's >> They say monoculture is dead and that's >> They say monoculture is dead and that's true broadly. But every single church true broadly. But every single church true broadly. But every single church creative on planet Earth saw this and creative on planet Earth saw this and creative on planet Earth saw this and every single one of us had the same every single one of us had the same every single one of us had the same thought. Cool. Cool. What is that? thought. Cool. Cool. What is that? thought. Cool. Cool. What is that? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] So much so that the follow-up video was So much so that the follow-up video was So much so that the follow-up video was made that described it. So, are we going made that described it. So, are we going made that described it. So, are we going to keep this? Are we going to kill it? to keep this? Are we going to kill it? to keep this? Are we going to kill it? Are we going to reinvent it? I want to Are we going to reinvent it? I want to Are we going to reinvent it? I want to reinvent this. reinvent this. reinvent this. >> I think the reason it came across our >> I think the reason it came across our >> I think the reason it came across our feeds and every one of us had like a feeds and every one of us had like a feeds and every one of us had like a similar reaction similar reaction similar reaction >> was because it was so unlike anything we >> was because it was so unlike anything we >> was because it was so unlike anything we had seen before, had seen before, had seen before, >> which is increasingly rare in the church >> which is increasingly rare in the church >> which is increasingly rare in the church world. Why? Well, because we all wear so world. Why? Well, because we all wear so world. Why? Well, because we all wear so many hats that very often we're tasked many hats that very often we're tasked many hats that very often we're tasked with something that we'd love to give with something that we'd love to give with something that we'd love to give our full creative bandwidth to, but that our full creative bandwidth to, but that our full creative bandwidth to, but that bandwidth is already so spread out that bandwidth is already so spread out that bandwidth is already so spread out that what do we do? We look at other churches what do we do? We look at other churches what do we do? We look at other churches and want to recycle what they do.

and want to recycle what they do. and want to recycle what they do. >> This happens in all industries. It's >> This happens in all industries. It's >> This happens in all industries. It's always nice to see someone do something always nice to see someone do something always nice to see someone do something and then you're like, "Oh, okay. Here's and then you're like, "Oh, okay. Here's and then you're like, "Oh, okay. Here's how I could do that in my context." how I could do that in my context." how I could do that in my context." That's why like church uh Jake's church That's why like church uh Jake's church That's why like church uh Jake's church tech tours are so popular because we go tech tours are so popular because we go tech tours are so popular because we go into a church that has solved problems into a church that has solved problems into a church that has solved problems and we get to see how they've done it and we get to see how they've done it and we get to see how they've done it and we're like, "Oh, okay. and we're like, "Oh, okay. and we're like, "Oh, okay. >> Oh, I have a similar problem. Okay, so >> Oh, I have a similar problem. Okay, so >> Oh, I have a similar problem. Okay, so oh that's how they solve it." Sometimes oh that's how they solve it." Sometimes oh that's how they solve it." Sometimes we just need someone to put two and two we just need someone to put two and two we just need someone to put two and two together for us to see how it works and together for us to see how it works and together for us to see how it works and then we can apply it specifically. then we can apply it specifically. then we can apply it specifically. >> This was so unlike anything that we had >> This was so unlike anything that we had >> This was so unlike anything that we had ever seen ever seen ever seen >> that the response was what is happening >> that the response was what is happening >> that the response was what is happening here? And so the way that I would like here? And so the way that I would like here? And so the way that I would like to reinvent this is to every so often it to reinvent this is to every so often it to reinvent this is to every so often it cannot be done on every creative project cannot be done on every creative project cannot be done on every creative project take something when you can and say you take something when you can and say you take something when you can and say you know what we are going to solve this in know what we are going to solve this in know what we are going to solve this in an novel way in a way that we're not an novel way in a way that we're not an novel way in a way that we're not going to look to another church we are going to look to another church we are going to look to another church we are going to solve it from scratch and see going to solve it from scratch and see going to solve it from scratch and see if we can create something that's brand if we can create something that's brand if we can create something that's brand new because that's what happened here. new because that's what happened here. new because that's what happened here. >> That's exactly what happened here. this. >> That's exactly what happened here. this. >> That's exactly what happened here. this. Whoever came up with this, whoever Whoever came up with this, whoever Whoever came up with this, whoever maggyvered this, and it is a maggyvered maggyvered this, and it is a maggyvered maggyvered this, and it is a maggyvered situation if you watch the how-to video, situation if you watch the how-to video, situation if you watch the how-to video, it's it's it's >> they they didn't buy an upside down >> they they didn't buy an upside down >> they they didn't buy an upside down pyramid on Alibaba. [laughter] pyramid on Alibaba. [laughter] pyramid on Alibaba. [laughter] >> Like, whoever came up with this, >> Like, whoever came up with this, >> Like, whoever came up with this, dreamt this up and had the space to play dreamt this up and had the space to play dreamt this up and had the space to play somehow, but your the problem you're somehow, but your the problem you're somehow, but your the problem you're facing at your church is probably not facing at your church is probably not facing at your church is probably not solved by this inverse pyramid solved by this inverse pyramid solved by this inverse pyramid projector, even though you think it's projector, even though you think it's projector, even though you think it's cool. And you shouldn't do it just cool. And you shouldn't do it just cool. And you shouldn't do it just because you think it's cool. What I hear because you think it's cool. What I hear because you think it's cool. What I hear you saying is, yeah, take inspiration you saying is, yeah, take inspiration you saying is, yeah, take inspiration from wherever, but don't just do this from wherever, but don't just do this from wherever, but don't just do this because you've never seen it before and

because you've never seen it before and because you've never seen it before and you've got a spare projector line, three you've got a spare projector line, three you've got a spare projector line, three spare projectors lying around, but but spare projectors lying around, but but spare projectors lying around, but but don't do that. But what you should do is don't do that. But what you should do is don't do that. But what you should do is pursue creative solutions for the pursue creative solutions for the pursue creative solutions for the problems that you do have. Maybe your problems that you do have. Maybe your problems that you do have. Maybe your maybe your projector situation is like maybe your projector situation is like maybe your projector situation is like is all good. Maybe you don't need to be is all good. Maybe you don't need to be is all good. Maybe you don't need to be touching it at all. But maybe what this touching it at all. But maybe what this touching it at all. But maybe what this post should give you is the permission post should give you is the permission post should give you is the permission to like think outside the box and come to like think outside the box and come to like think outside the box and come up with an imaginative solution to the up with an imaginative solution to the up with an imaginative solution to the problem that your church is facing. problem that your church is facing. problem that your church is facing. >> There's another possibility which is >> There's another possibility which is >> There's another possibility which is that this person did not come up from that this person did not come up from that this person did not come up from the come up with this but they saw it at the come up with this but they saw it at the come up with this but they saw it at a church that no one had ever published a church that no one had ever published a church that no one had ever published or more likely they took inspiration or more likely they took inspiration or more likely they took inspiration from another industry. We've talked from another industry. We've talked from another industry. We've talked about this before about this before about this before >> and that is one of my favorite ways to >> and that is one of my favorite ways to >> and that is one of my favorite ways to creatively remix where you don't recycle creatively remix where you don't recycle creatively remix where you don't recycle what another church has done. You what another church has done. You what another church has done. You recycle reuse what another creative has recycle reuse what another creative has recycle reuse what another creative has done outside of your space and then what done outside of your space and then what done outside of your space and then what you're bringing in is new and can solve you're bringing in is new and can solve you're bringing in is new and can solve problems uniquely. What problem does problems uniquely. What problem does problems uniquely. What problem does this solve? Interestingly, this solve? Interestingly, this solve? Interestingly, not interesting, that's why I put them not interesting, that's why I put them not interesting, that's why I put them together. trend number one and two are together. trend number one and two are together. trend number one and two are meeting together in the middle because meeting together in the middle because meeting together in the middle because what I noticed when I first saw the 360 what I noticed when I first saw the 360 what I noticed when I first saw the 360 degree stage is I was like does everyone degree stage is I was like does everyone degree stage is I was like does everyone know the songs? Like does everyone know know the songs? Like does everyone know know the songs? Like does everyone know the words? Where are the words?

the words? Where are the words? the words? Where are the words? >> Cuz there's no central projector, >> Cuz there's no central projector, >> Cuz there's no central projector, >> right? You can't just put them behind >> right? You can't just put them behind >> right? You can't just put them behind someone now. Maybe you could do like a someone now. Maybe you could do like a someone now. Maybe you could do like a 270 [snorts] 270 [snorts] 270 [snorts] degree stage where but then like degree stage where but then like degree stage where but then like depending on where you're seated, it's depending on where you're seated, it's depending on where you're seated, it's like when you're seated at a stadium and like when you're seated at a stadium and like when you're seated at a stadium and like the TV is like in a strange way to like the TV is like in a strange way to like the TV is like in a strange way to your right and your like neck gets a your right and your like neck gets a your right and your like neck gets a crank cuz you're staring in like the crank cuz you're staring in like the crank cuz you're staring in like the wrong direction trying to get a glimpse wrong direction trying to get a glimpse wrong direction trying to get a glimpse of the screen to see what's happening. of the screen to see what's happening. of the screen to see what's happening. The pyramid projector solves that The pyramid projector solves that The pyramid projector solves that because no matter where you are in the because no matter where you are in the because no matter where you are in the room, you can see a side of room, you can see a side of room, you can see a side of >> the pyramid and thus you can see the >> the pyramid and thus you can see the >> the pyramid and thus you can see the lyrics. And so this likely was a lyrics. And so this likely was a lyrics. And so this likely was a creative solution downstream of a creative solution downstream of a creative solution downstream of a missional objective which was we want to missional objective which was we want to missional objective which was we want to have this in the round type of worship have this in the round type of worship have this in the round type of worship experience. We want everyone's eyes to experience. We want everyone's eyes to experience. We want everyone's eyes to be lifted up not at people but in the be lifted up not at people but in the be lifted up not at people but in the direction of the heavens. Oh. Oh yeah. direction of the heavens. Oh. Oh yeah. direction of the heavens. Oh. Oh yeah. And this gets to my original point. And this gets to my original point. And this gets to my original point. Great idea said the t sound guy says the Great idea said the t sound guy says the Great idea said the t sound guy says the production guy. What are we going to do production guy. What are we going to do production guy. What are we going to do about lyrics? Uh okay fair [laughter] about lyrics? Uh okay fair [laughter] about lyrics? Uh okay fair [laughter] enough. Fair enough. Yeah. What are we enough. Fair enough. Yeah. What are we enough. Fair enough. Yeah. What are we going to do about sound? Where do you going to do about sound? Where do you going to do about sound? Where do you want me to put the speakers? In what want me to put the speakers? In what want me to put the speakers? In what direction should I put the speakers if direction should I put the speakers if direction should I put the speakers if I've got half the people behind?

I've got half the people behind? I've got half the people behind? >> I've got two speakers. Where do you want >> I've got two speakers. Where do you want >> I've got two speakers. Where do you want me to put these? me to put these? me to put these? >> And you know the people that are on one >> And you know the people that are on one >> And you know the people that are on one side that are just behind the kick drum. side that are just behind the kick drum. side that are just behind the kick drum. [laughter] What are they doing? The [laughter] What are they doing? The [laughter] What are they doing? The sound monitor. Everyone's got in ears, sound monitor. Everyone's got in ears, sound monitor. Everyone's got in ears, right? Cuz we can't have a sound monitor right? Cuz we can't have a sound monitor right? Cuz we can't have a sound monitor pointed because it's going to hit the pointed because it's going to hit the pointed because it's going to hit the people behind the drummer. And now you people behind the drummer. And now you people behind the drummer. And now you have creative solutions to that. have creative solutions to that. have creative solutions to that. Whatever the sound solutions are outside Whatever the sound solutions are outside Whatever the sound solutions are outside of my purview here. And congratulations of my purview here. And congratulations of my purview here. And congratulations to those people. to those people. to those people. >> Yes. So reinvent it. >> Yes. So reinvent it. >> Yes. So reinvent it. >> Reinvent it. >> Reinvent it. >> Reinvent it. >> Yeah. take something from outside of the >> Yeah. take something from outside of the >> Yeah. take something from outside of the church space and bring it in. Let's not church space and bring it in. Let's not church space and bring it in. Let's not only recycle what other churches have only recycle what other churches have only recycle what other churches have done down the street. We always say done down the street. We always say done down the street. We always say repeat the best, forget the rest, repeat the best, forget the rest, repeat the best, forget the rest, continue to test. It applies in so many continue to test. It applies in so many continue to test. It applies in so many creative creative creative >> platforms. Repeat the best. If you see a >> platforms. Repeat the best. If you see a >> platforms. Repeat the best. If you see a church doing something with excellence church doing something with excellence church doing something with excellence and you want to convert it, translate it and you want to convert it, translate it and you want to convert it, translate it into your context, by all means. But into your context, by all means. But into your context, by all means. But let's not only do that. Let's always let's not only do that. Let's always let's not only do that. Let's always leave a little bit of space when we can leave a little bit of space when we can leave a little bit of space when we can to experiment. to experiment. to experiment. >> Continue to test. Find something that >> Continue to test. Find something that >> Continue to test. Find something that solves a problem that maybe no one has solves a problem that maybe no one has solves a problem that maybe no one has considered before. At its best, we get considered before. At its best, we get considered before. At its best, we get something like this. something like this. something like this. >> Yeah. So good. Okay, let's move on from >> Yeah. So good. Okay, let's move on from >> Yeah. So good. Okay, let's move on from stage design. Let's uh let's dip our stage design. Let's uh let's dip our stage design. Let's uh let's dip our toes into the water of social media for toes into the water of social media for toes into the water of social media for a moment. Uh how about cinematic sermon a moment. Uh how about cinematic sermon a moment. Uh how about cinematic sermon reels?

reels? reels? >> Yeah. So, if you're watching, you'll see >> Yeah. So, if you're watching, you'll see >> Yeah. So, if you're watching, you'll see a before and after from a creator. We a before and after from a creator. We a before and after from a creator. We visited a church in person last year visited a church in person last year visited a church in person last year where we created a YouTube video that where we created a YouTube video that where we created a YouTube video that showed a similar showed a similar showed a similar project, but we were focused on the project, but we were focused on the project, but we were focused on the actual worship. And so the idea is actual worship. And so the idea is actual worship. And so the idea is instead of taking the live stream instead of taking the live stream instead of taking the live stream recording from your camera that's on the recording from your camera that's on the recording from your camera that's on the tripod tripod tripod >> and then repurposing that into a sermon >> and then repurposing that into a sermon >> and then repurposing that into a sermon reel or in our case from last year's reel or in our case from last year's reel or in our case from last year's video that we'll have linked in the video that we'll have linked in the video that we'll have linked in the description, repurposing that into a description, repurposing that into a description, repurposing that into a reel of the worship music. You have reel of the worship music. You have reel of the worship music. You have someone in the first or second row someone in the first or second row someone in the first or second row >> down. It's usually one of the early >> down. It's usually one of the early >> down. It's usually one of the early rows, maybe like right in front or off rows, maybe like right in front or off rows, maybe like right in front or off to the side. For worship, I was off to to the side. For worship, I was off to to the side. For worship, I was off to the side. For this example, for the side. For this example, for the side. For this example, for preaching, they're like right kind of in preaching, they're like right kind of in preaching, they're like right kind of in the center, a little bit offset. the center, a little bit offset. the center, a little bit offset. >> And the camera's pointed up and they're >> And the camera's pointed up and they're >> And the camera's pointed up and they're shooting with an FX3, which is a Sony shooting with an FX3, which is a Sony shooting with an FX3, which is a Sony mirrorless camera. I think I was mirrorless camera. I think I was mirrorless camera. I think I was shooting with the exact same camera shooting with the exact same camera shooting with the exact same camera incidentally. incidentally. incidentally. And what you get is this gorilla style And what you get is this gorilla style And what you get is this gorilla style cinematic footage that gives you the cinematic footage that gives you the cinematic footage that gives you the same POV as if you were seated in the same POV as if you were seated in the same POV as if you were seated in the seat at church.

seat at church. seat at church. >> What is this? It is a good example of >> What is this? It is a good example of >> What is this? It is a good example of the creative curveball. The creative the creative curveball. The creative the creative curveball. The creative curveball is where something has been curveball is where something has been curveball is where something has been done to death in a certain way. It's not done to death in a certain way. It's not done to death in a certain way. It's not a bad way of doing something, but it's a bad way of doing something, but it's a bad way of doing something, but it's been done so often that it has lost some been done so often that it has lost some been done so often that it has lost some of its potency. So, we purposefully do of its potency. So, we purposefully do of its potency. So, we purposefully do something different. If all I threw were something different. If all I threw were something different. If all I threw were curve balls in the major leagues, they curve balls in the major leagues, they curve balls in the major leagues, they would be home runs every single time would be home runs every single time would be home runs every single time because the batter would be waiting for because the batter would be waiting for because the batter would be waiting for that 75 mph pitch and they would just that 75 mph pitch and they would just that 75 mph pitch and they would just tee off on it. Yeah. tee off on it. Yeah. tee off on it. Yeah. >> If all you threw was 100 mph fast balls, >> If all you threw was 100 mph fast balls, >> If all you threw was 100 mph fast balls, those would also become predictable and those would also become predictable and those would also become predictable and you would lose the ability to mess up you would lose the ability to mess up you would lose the ability to mess up the batter's timing. That's what makes the batter's timing. That's what makes the batter's timing. That's what makes pitching, the art of pitching work. pitching, the art of pitching work. pitching, the art of pitching work. >> The creative curveball is very similar. >> The creative curveball is very similar. >> The creative curveball is very similar. It's not about doing something better. It's not about doing something better. It's not about doing something better. It's about doing something purposely It's about doing something purposely It's about doing something purposely different to re-engage attention. Is the different to re-engage attention. Is the different to re-engage attention. Is the POV of seated in the chair better than POV of seated in the chair better than POV of seated in the chair better than the live stream angle? I think you could the live stream angle? I think you could the live stream angle? I think you could make an argument for either based on make an argument for either based on make an argument for either based on taste, but I don't think one is taste, but I don't think one is taste, but I don't think one is inherently better than the other, but we inherently better than the other, but we inherently better than the other, but we always do it one way. So, this other way always do it one way. So, this other way always do it one way. So, this other way is really interesting and that's why is really interesting and that's why is really interesting and that's why when people see it, they're more likely when people see it, they're more likely when people see it, they're more likely to stop scrolling to stop scrolling to stop scrolling >> and it does have that more human >> and it does have that more human >> and it does have that more human element. There's more camera shake element. There's more camera shake element. There's more camera shake because usually it's handheld. But this because usually it's handheld. But this because usually it's handheld. But this is the question that I have. I did it is the question that I have. I did it is the question that I have. I did it for worship because I was like, "Great.

for worship because I was like, "Great. for worship because I was like, "Great. I can sense when the moment is coming." I can sense when the moment is coming." I can sense when the moment is coming." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I'm going to get ready to film. Are >> And I'm going to get ready to film. Are >> And I'm going to get ready to film. Are these people just filming for 40 these people just filming for 40 these people just filming for 40 minutes? minutes? minutes? >> They must be doing like forearm kettle >> They must be doing like forearm kettle >> They must be doing like forearm kettle bell workouts like on the daily because bell workouts like on the daily because bell workouts like on the daily because holding a camera handheld for any more holding a camera handheld for any more holding a camera handheld for any more than even if you're seated at a time, than even if you're seated at a time, than even if you're seated at a time, >> leaning your elbows on your knees. That >> leaning your elbows on your knees. That >> leaning your elbows on your knees. That was actually going to be my question to was actually going to be my question to was actually going to be my question to you was about um like having it on you was about um like having it on you was about um like having it on sticks or not because shooting it sticks or not because shooting it sticks or not because shooting it handheld really does give you use the handheld really does give you use the handheld really does give you use the word already like that gorilla feeling word already like that gorilla feeling word already like that gorilla feeling that like I'm in the room, I can feel that like I'm in the room, I can feel that like I'm in the room, I can feel the moment kind of experience when the moment kind of experience when the moment kind of experience when you're watching it on Instagram or Tik you're watching it on Instagram or Tik you're watching it on Instagram or Tik Tok or what have you. Putting that Tok or what have you. Putting that Tok or what have you. Putting that camera from that angle on sticks really camera from that angle on sticks really camera from that angle on sticks really does kind of sacrifice that feeling a does kind of sacrifice that feeling a does kind of sacrifice that feeling a little bit. And it's not really like you little bit. And it's not really like you little bit. And it's not really like you want to introduce um camera shake and want to introduce um camera shake and want to introduce um camera shake and post afterwards. That wouldn't really post afterwards. That wouldn't really post afterwards. That wouldn't really achieve what you're going for. Um, so I achieve what you're going for. Um, so I achieve what you're going for. Um, so I don't really know about that, like how don't really know about that, like how don't really know about that, like how to pull that off because the best to pull that off because the best to pull that off because the best examples of this that I've seen have examples of this that I've seen have examples of this that I've seen have been handheld, but how do you do that been handheld, but how do you do that been handheld, but how do you do that for 20 or 30 or 45 minutes? Because in a for 20 or 30 or 45 minutes? Because in a for 20 or 30 or 45 minutes? Because in a sermon, you can't always predict the sermon, you can't always predict the sermon, you can't always predict the moment like you can in in a in a worship moment like you can in in a in a worship moment like you can in in a in a worship moment.

moment. moment. >> But I think the strength of this in >> But I think the strength of this in >> But I think the strength of this in addition to just simply being a addition to just simply being a addition to just simply being a curveball kind of leans into something curveball kind of leans into something curveball kind of leans into something we've talked about on this show as it we've talked about on this show as it we've talked about on this show as it relates to sermon reels um as a content relates to sermon reels um as a content relates to sermon reels um as a content strategy. The one of the reasons that strategy. The one of the reasons that strategy. The one of the reasons that sermon reels are so successful on social sermon reels are so successful on social sermon reels are so successful on social media is that it lets you in on like media is that it lets you in on like media is that it lets you in on like what happened in the room. Like you feel what happened in the room. Like you feel what happened in the room. Like you feel like you like the pastor or the preacher like you like the pastor or the preacher like you like the pastor or the preacher is speaking to you. I think this camera is speaking to you. I think this camera is speaking to you. I think this camera angle in particular just takes that one angle in particular just takes that one angle in particular just takes that one step further. It actually kind of puts step further. It actually kind of puts step further. It actually kind of puts you in the seat like with the with the you in the seat like with the with the you in the seat like with the with the the the physical and the the visual kind the the physical and the the visual kind the the physical and the the visual kind of perspective. So I think it does take of perspective. So I think it does take of perspective. So I think it does take that feeling one step further which is that feeling one step further which is that feeling one step further which is part of why it's these videos feel Yeah. part of why it's these videos feel Yeah. part of why it's these videos feel Yeah. so successful when when they do stop and so successful when when they do stop and so successful when when they do stop and get your attention on on social. get your attention on on social. get your attention on on social. >> What's true about that though is that it >> What's true about that though is that it >> What's true about that though is that it only works in short bursts. Yes, only works in short bursts. Yes, only works in short bursts. Yes, >> it would not be enjoyable if you were >> it would not be enjoyable if you were >> it would not be enjoyable if you were watching the full sermon like that. watching the full sermon like that. watching the full sermon like that. Sometimes sports will do this. They'll Sometimes sports will do this. They'll Sometimes sports will do this. They'll have like we're going to show you the have like we're going to show you the have like we're going to show you the camera on the quarterback's helmet or camera on the quarterback's helmet or camera on the quarterback's helmet or we're going to take the gimbal and we're we're going to take the gimbal and we're we're going to take the gimbal and we're going to run into the end zone while going to run into the end zone while going to run into the end zone while everyone's celebrating like and it's everyone's celebrating like and it's everyone's celebrating like and it's like that's the most creative angle.

like that's the most creative angle. like that's the most creative angle. >> If that was how every play was, it would >> If that was how every play was, it would >> If that was how every play was, it would be nauseating. It would ruin uh the be nauseating. It would ruin uh the be nauseating. It would ruin uh the potency of that creative take. potency of that creative take. potency of that creative take. >> You could do it on a monopod. >> You could do it on a monopod. >> You could do it on a monopod. >> Oh yeah, just like one stick. So So >> Oh yeah, just like one stick. So So >> Oh yeah, just like one stick. So So you're not bearing the weight of the you're not bearing the weight of the you're not bearing the weight of the camera, camera, camera, >> but you're still getting the sway. >> but you're still getting the sway. >> but you're still getting the sway. >> Bring back monopods. >> Bring back monopods. >> Bring back monopods. >> Ah man. Monopods underrated piece of >> Ah man. Monopods underrated piece of >> Ah man. Monopods underrated piece of gear. gear. gear. >> Keeping this. I'm going to keep this. I >> Keeping this. I'm going to keep this. I >> Keeping this. I'm going to keep this. I I again I just the one thing is I I again I just the one thing is I I again I just the one thing is I it's an entire person working a camera it's an entire person working a camera it's an entire person working a camera for the entire sermon and it's a lot of for the entire sermon and it's a lot of for the entire sermon and it's a lot of work for them. So work for them. So work for them. So >> give it to the PK. You know the pastor's >> give it to the PK. You know the pastor's >> give it to the PK. You know the pastor's kids in the front row anyways. kids in the front row anyways. kids in the front row anyways. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You don't have a choice, son. >> You don't have a choice, son. >> You don't have a choice, son. >> We're going to keep this with the caveat >> We're going to keep this with the caveat >> We're going to keep this with the caveat that like I don't know how great the ROI that like I don't know how great the ROI that like I don't know how great the ROI is for the amount of effort into it. Um is for the amount of effort into it. Um is for the amount of effort into it. Um but every time we see this we're like but every time we see this we're like but every time we see this we're like okay. Yeah, that that does look cool. So okay. Yeah, that that does look cool. So okay. Yeah, that that does look cool. So I mean we made a whole video on it, but I mean we made a whole video on it, but I mean we made a whole video on it, but we focused it on worship for that we focused it on worship for that we focused it on worship for that reason. Yeah. All right. This next one reason. Yeah. All right. This next one reason. Yeah. All right. This next one actually came across my feed the day actually came across my feed the day actually came across my feed the day that we made these podcast notes. Uh, that we made these podcast notes. Uh, that we made these podcast notes. Uh, incidentally, call it the Lord, call it incidentally, call it the Lord, call it incidentally, call it the Lord, call it coincidence, I don't know what it is, coincidence, I don't know what it is, coincidence, I don't know what it is, but this exact video came across my but this exact video came across my but this exact video came across my feed. Uh, this is the rage baiting feed. Uh, this is the rage baiting feed. Uh, this is the rage baiting interview trend. Particularly for this interview trend. Particularly for this interview trend. Particularly for this example, rage baiting the pastor. So, example, rage baiting the pastor. So, example, rage baiting the pastor. So, we'll play this. You can listen.

we'll play this. You can listen. we'll play this. You can listen. >> All right. So, this week's get to know >> All right. So, this week's get to know >> All right. So, this week's get to know me is Pastor Joseph. And we're going to me is Pastor Joseph. And we're going to me is Pastor Joseph. And we're going to ask you a couple questions. And your ask you a couple questions. And your ask you a couple questions. And your height is height is height is >> Get the heck out of here. If you were >> Get the heck out of here. If you were >> Get the heck out of here. If you were athletic, which sport would you play? athletic, which sport would you play? athletic, which sport would you play? >> I hate you for this. I am athletic and I >> I hate you for this. I am athletic and I >> I hate you for this. I am athletic and I played all the sports. played all the sports. played all the sports. >> If you >> If you >> If you >> I live on TikTok. I heard all [laughter] >> I live on TikTok. I heard all [laughter] >> I live on TikTok. I heard all [laughter] this junk. this junk. this junk. >> If you worked out, if you worked out how >> If you worked out, if you worked out how >> If you worked out, if you worked out how many times many times many times >> Unbelievable. If [laughter] I worked out >> Unbelievable. If [laughter] I worked out >> Unbelievable. If [laughter] I worked out is crazy. I I don't like either of you. is crazy. I I don't like either of you. is crazy. I I don't like either of you. >> Actually, that leads us into the next >> Actually, that leads us into the next >> Actually, that leads us into the next question. If you were fashionable, what question. If you were fashionable, what question. If you were fashionable, what kind of fashion would you wear? kind of fashion would you wear? kind of fashion would you wear? >> Yep. Uh, you know, I'd probably go >> Yep. Uh, you know, I'd probably go >> Yep. Uh, you know, I'd probably go European. And I'd wear the big baggy European. And I'd wear the big baggy European. And I'd wear the big baggy pants with the little tiny wife beers. pants with the little tiny wife beers. pants with the little tiny wife beers. >> Okay. If you were like a real pastor, >> Okay. If you were like a real pastor, >> Okay. If you were like a real pastor, where do you think that you would work? >> We can't use that. >> We can't use that. >> Why not? That's cold. Actually, that's >> Why not? That's cold. Actually, that's >> Why not? That's cold. Actually, that's the stuff I the stuff I the stuff I >> That one went so good that they're like, >> That one went so good that they're like, >> That one went so good that they're like, "Oh, that last question was a little too "Oh, that last question was a little too "Oh, that last question was a little too real on that response. We can't include real on that response. We can't include real on that response. We can't include it."

it." it." >> I love this trend. Mhm. >> I love this trend. Mhm. >> I love this trend. Mhm. >> Not every trend that we piggyback on >> Not every trend that we piggyback on >> Not every trend that we piggyback on works. What I like about these is that works. What I like about these is that works. What I like about these is that every prompt reveals something unique every prompt reveals something unique every prompt reveals something unique based on the person that's being filmed. based on the person that's being filmed. based on the person that's being filmed. Some creative trends that we piggyback Some creative trends that we piggyback Some creative trends that we piggyback on are basically the carbon copy and if on are basically the carbon copy and if on are basically the carbon copy and if you've seen one, right, you've seen all you've seen one, right, you've seen all you've seen one, right, you've seen all of them. Like there was that one earlier of them. Like there was that one earlier of them. Like there was that one earlier this summer where they would play that this summer where they would play that this summer where they would play that orchestral orchestral orchestral tense music and it would be the person tense music and it would be the person tense music and it would be the person sitting down in the documentary chair sitting down in the documentary chair sitting down in the documentary chair and it's like preparing to tell you what and it's like preparing to tell you what and it's like preparing to tell you what happened at the early service today. happened at the early service today. happened at the early service today. >> Once you'd seen one of them, you kind of >> Once you'd seen one of them, you kind of >> Once you'd seen one of them, you kind of seen it all. seen it all. seen it all. >> They're all funny, but there's nothing >> They're all funny, but there's nothing >> They're all funny, but there's nothing really new aside from like the different really new aside from like the different really new aside from like the different reason you're sitting in the chair. reason you're sitting in the chair. reason you're sitting in the chair. >> And so that trend kind of extinguished >> And so that trend kind of extinguished >> And so that trend kind of extinguished pretty quick. Whereas this one, you're pretty quick. Whereas this one, you're pretty quick. Whereas this one, you're like, "Okay, how are they going to like, "Okay, how are they going to like, "Okay, how are they going to respond?" So this guy is interesting, respond?" So this guy is interesting, respond?" So this guy is interesting, right? Like there's a bit of like the right? Like there's a bit of like the right? Like there's a bit of like the ego at the beginning and then there's ego at the beginning and then there's ego at the beginning and then there's like the admission. No, no, no. like the admission. No, no, no. like the admission. No, no, no. >> I understand this is rage bait. I've >> I understand this is rage bait. I've >> I understand this is rage bait. I've seen this. And then to the third seen this. And then to the third seen this. And then to the third question, he turns it on its head. He's question, he turns it on its head. He's question, he turns it on its head. He's like, "How would I dress if I was cool?" like, "How would I dress if I was cool?" like, "How would I dress if I was cool?" And he actually makes fun of how people And he actually makes fun of how people And he actually makes fun of how people dress that are cool because he's talking dress that are cool because he's talking dress that are cool because he's talking about why he thinks that type of dress about why he thinks that type of dress about why he thinks that type of dress that despite being called cool is that despite being called cool is that despite being called cool is actually silly. And then the fourth actually silly. And then the fourth actually silly. And then the fourth question, we'll never know. It was so question, we'll never know. It was so question, we'll never know. It was so bad they had to mute it. And so that's bad they had to mute it. And so that's bad they had to mute it. And so that's like a very interesting arc and like a very interesting arc and like a very interesting arc and progression of responses that would be progression of responses that would be progression of responses that would be different if I tried to rage bait Alex different if I tried to rage bait Alex different if I tried to rage bait Alex because every time I try he just turns because every time I try he just turns because every time I try he just turns away and looks at his computer.

away and looks at his computer. away and looks at his computer. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] How do you think this video lands uh How do you think this video lands uh How do you think this video lands uh when you're when you're rage baiting a when you're when you're rage baiting a when you're when you're rage baiting a pastor who doesn't live on TikTok like pastor who doesn't live on TikTok like pastor who doesn't live on TikTok like this uh pastor admitted and maybe this uh pastor admitted and maybe this uh pastor admitted and maybe doesn't see what's coming as it's doesn't see what's coming as it's doesn't see what's coming as it's happening. You think it's more happening. You think it's more happening. You think it's more successful? successful? successful? I think that it's a little high risk, I think that it's a little high risk, I think that it's a little high risk, high reward. high reward. high reward. >> Yeah. [laughter] Maybe you don't maybe >> Yeah. [laughter] Maybe you don't maybe >> Yeah. [laughter] Maybe you don't maybe maybe don't end up publishing it. maybe don't end up publishing it. maybe don't end up publishing it. >> Yeah. Right. Like they didn't publish >> Yeah. Right. Like they didn't publish >> Yeah. Right. Like they didn't publish the fourth and final question. Maybe the fourth and final question. Maybe the fourth and final question. Maybe there's churches trying this that are there's churches trying this that are there's churches trying this that are like, "Yeah, we threw out this entire like, "Yeah, we threw out this entire like, "Yeah, we threw out this entire thing." Look, I want to keep thing." Look, I want to keep thing." Look, I want to keep >> speaking to the previous >> speaking to the previous >> speaking to the previous >> trend. All right. We have to have a nice >> trend. All right. We have to have a nice >> trend. All right. We have to have a nice camera and we have to have someone with camera and we have to have someone with camera and we have to have someone with a monopod sit and record the entire a monopod sit and record the entire a monopod sit and record the entire service. And then in post, we have to go service. And then in post, we have to go service. And then in post, we have to go through the entire sermon reel through the entire sermon reel through the entire sermon reel post-prouction, which in and of itself post-prouction, which in and of itself post-prouction, which in and of itself is also not brief. It is repetitive. It is also not brief. It is repetitive. It is also not brief. It is repetitive. It is monotonous. It requires intense focus is monotonous. It requires intense focus is monotonous. It requires intense focus to do it right. to do it right. to do it right. This is like, let's take 30 seconds and This is like, let's take 30 seconds and This is like, let's take 30 seconds and we'll just see how it goes. And if it's we'll just see how it goes. And if it's we'll just see how it goes. And if it's no good, it's no good. But if it is no good, it's no good. But if it is no good, it's no good. But if it is good, it's pretty funny. good, it's pretty funny. good, it's pretty funny. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you I I always say with social >> And you I I always say with social >> And you I I always say with social content like this, don't let it die on content like this, don't let it die on content like this, don't let it die on the vine on social.

the vine on social. the vine on social. >> Like, play this on Sunday. >> Like, play this on Sunday. >> Like, play this on Sunday. >> Play this. Send it out over text. Send >> Play this. Send it out over text. Send >> Play this. Send it out over text. Send it out over email. Like you can use this it out over email. Like you can use this it out over email. Like you can use this as a sprinkle promotion as well. Like at as a sprinkle promotion as well. Like at as a sprinkle promotion as well. Like at the end based on something that they the end based on something that they the end based on something that they said like turn it into, oh, and by the said like turn it into, oh, and by the said like turn it into, oh, and by the way, you know, pastor said that this way, you know, pastor said that this way, you know, pastor said that this type of dress is silly, but that's how type of dress is silly, but that's how type of dress is silly, but that's how our youth dress and we've got youth our youth dress and we've got youth our youth dress and we've got youth night. We'd love to see you. Right. Like night. We'd love to see you. Right. Like night. We'd love to see you. Right. Like you turn it into a promo. Um, and now you turn it into a promo. Um, and now you turn it into a promo. Um, and now you've like extended its lifespan and you've like extended its lifespan and you've like extended its lifespan and evolved its purpose be beyond just a evolved its purpose be beyond just a evolved its purpose be beyond just a funny video. funny video. funny video. >> Yeah. Very good. Okay, moving on. I'm >> Yeah. Very good. Okay, moving on. I'm >> Yeah. Very good. Okay, moving on. I'm eager to talk about this one. Uh, the eager to talk about this one. Uh, the eager to talk about this one. Uh, the the trend of completely new visual the trend of completely new visual the trend of completely new visual identities for every sermon series. I identities for every sermon series. I identities for every sermon series. I have wanted to kill this for 15 years. have wanted to kill this for 15 years. have wanted to kill this for 15 years. 20 years. 20 years. When I first started 20 years. 20 years. When I first started 20 years. 20 years. When I first started designing sermon series artwork at a designing sermon series artwork at a designing sermon series artwork at a church plant in 2010, I was like, church plant in 2010, I was like, church plant in 2010, I was like, our church brand is this. So, why is it our church brand is this. So, why is it our church brand is this. So, why is it that the biggest visual every single that the biggest visual every single that the biggest visual every single week looks dramatically different from week looks dramatically different from week looks dramatically different from our church's branding? Like, wouldn't it our church's branding? Like, wouldn't it our church's branding? Like, wouldn't it be cooler if we took our church's be cooler if we took our church's be cooler if we took our church's branding and found a way to express it branding and found a way to express it branding and found a way to express it uniquely with the idea that we want to uniquely with the idea that we want to uniquely with the idea that we want to share in the sermon series? And I still share in the sermon series? And I still share in the sermon series? And I still feel that way. Now, is that realistic?

feel that way. Now, is that realistic? feel that way. Now, is that realistic? Maybe not. Because to take a singular Maybe not. Because to take a singular Maybe not. Because to take a singular brand and the limitations within it brand and the limitations within it brand and the limitations within it visually and find visually and find visually and find fresh ways to express that every month fresh ways to express that every month fresh ways to express that every month with a new series, if you're doing with a new series, if you're doing with a new series, if you're doing monthly sermon series as a rhythm, let's monthly sermon series as a rhythm, let's monthly sermon series as a rhythm, let's say, is a lot more difficult than say, is a lot more difficult than say, is a lot more difficult than downloading a really cool graphic and downloading a really cool graphic and downloading a really cool graphic and just customizing it. And so this is just customizing it. And so this is just customizing it. And so this is really low stakes. All right? If you do really low stakes. All right? If you do really low stakes. All right? If you do that, this is not me going on one of my that, this is not me going on one of my that, this is not me going on one of my diet tribes and like, hey, this is diet tribes and like, hey, this is diet tribes and like, hey, this is crossing the line. It is compromising crossing the line. It is compromising crossing the line. It is compromising mission. It is not worth it. by all mission. It is not worth it. by all mission. It is not worth it. by all means continue to do it. In a perfect means continue to do it. In a perfect means continue to do it. In a perfect world, I love the idea of a church world, I love the idea of a church world, I love the idea of a church having a brand in the same way that having a brand in the same way that having a brand in the same way that Apple and the same way that Starbucks Apple and the same way that Starbucks Apple and the same way that Starbucks have their brand. And yeah, guess what? have their brand. And yeah, guess what? have their brand. And yeah, guess what? The Christmas design looks different, The Christmas design looks different, The Christmas design looks different, but you still know it's Starbucks. And but you still know it's Starbucks. And but you still know it's Starbucks. And the autumn design, pumpkin spice, it the autumn design, pumpkin spice, it the autumn design, pumpkin spice, it looks different, but you still know it looks different, but you still know it looks different, but you still know it lives within our visual identity. And lives within our visual identity. And lives within our visual identity. And that's true for iMac, iPhone, that's true for iMac, iPhone, that's true for iMac, iPhone, >> iPad, MacBook, AirPods, whatever it is. >> iPad, MacBook, AirPods, whatever it is. >> iPad, MacBook, AirPods, whatever it is. ah the visual identity is cohesive. I ah the visual identity is cohesive. I ah the visual identity is cohesive. I think that that cementss the brand so think that that cementss the brand so think that that cementss the brand so much more and ties the sermon series to much more and ties the sermon series to much more and ties the sermon series to the church's identity. Whereas when you the church's identity. Whereas when you the church's identity. Whereas when you take the sermon series branding and take the sermon series branding and take the sermon series branding and bring it in, it's almost like, hey, this bring it in, it's almost like, hey, this bring it in, it's almost like, hey, this isn't us. We like are doing book club isn't us. We like are doing book club isn't us. We like are doing book club almost and we read this book and we're almost and we read this book and we're almost and we read this book and we're bringing in this this book's identity bringing in this this book's identity bringing in this this book's identity and now we're going to talk all about and now we're going to talk all about and now we're going to talk all about this and yeah, we're going to weave it this and yeah, we're going to weave it this and yeah, we're going to weave it into us, but it's not us because into us, but it's not us because into us, but it's not us because visually it doesn't look like us. Again, visually it doesn't look like us. Again, visually it doesn't look like us. Again, low stakes, just just a tiny thing. Tiny low stakes, just just a tiny thing. Tiny low stakes, just just a tiny thing. Tiny thing. I would kill it though. I've thing. I would kill it though. I've thing. I would kill it though. I've always been curious about the pressure always been curious about the pressure always been curious about the pressure or the motivation to

or the motivation to or the motivation to um and actually the perceived value um and actually the perceived value um and actually the perceived value that's assigned to sermon series that's assigned to sermon series that's assigned to sermon series graphics as if it's going to be the graphics as if it's going to be the graphics as if it's going to be the hinge pin on which someone tunes into hinge pin on which someone tunes into hinge pin on which someone tunes into the sermon or not. the sermon or not. the sermon or not. >> Agreed. You know, it's like I see a lot >> Agreed. You know, it's like I see a lot >> Agreed. You know, it's like I see a lot of church creatives giving a lot of of church creatives giving a lot of of church creatives giving a lot of effort and in some times like pulling effort and in some times like pulling effort and in some times like pulling their hair out or giving like too many their hair out or giving like too many their hair out or giving like too many hours a week to designing these things hours a week to designing these things hours a week to designing these things where it's like I don't know, maybe if where it's like I don't know, maybe if where it's like I don't know, maybe if you took the pressure off a little bit you took the pressure off a little bit you took the pressure off a little bit and just if you if you chose to live and just if you if you chose to live and just if you if you chose to live within your brand guidelines and just within your brand guidelines and just within your brand guidelines and just designed something uh very simple that designed something uh very simple that designed something uh very simple that maybe has less kind of divergence from maybe has less kind of divergence from maybe has less kind of divergence from the last sermon series, but was a lot the last sermon series, but was a lot the last sermon series, but was a lot less of a lift to create. maybe you'd less of a lift to create. maybe you'd less of a lift to create. maybe you'd open yourself up to like doing other open yourself up to like doing other open yourself up to like doing other work. That's just that's always been my work. That's just that's always been my work. That's just that's always been my thought about sermon series graphics. thought about sermon series graphics. thought about sermon series graphics. I've I've always seen church creatives I've I've always seen church creatives I've I've always seen church creatives give so much attention to them. And as give so much attention to them. And as give so much attention to them. And as the as the preacher, I'm like, I sorry, the as the preacher, I'm like, I sorry, the as the preacher, I'm like, I sorry, I don't think that this story we're I don't think that this story we're I don't think that this story we're trying to tell depends on how [laughter] trying to tell depends on how [laughter] trying to tell depends on how [laughter] good your graphic is or how much good your graphic is or how much good your graphic is or how much different it was from the last sermon different it was from the last sermon different it was from the last sermon series. So, I'm down to kill this one, series. So, I'm down to kill this one, series. So, I'm down to kill this one, too. too. too. >> Perhaps these are not mutually >> Perhaps these are not mutually >> Perhaps these are not mutually exclusive, but let's say you're in a exclusive, but let's say you're in a exclusive, but let's say you're in a church where you're tasked and church where you're tasked and church where you're tasked and responsible for communications and also responsible for communications and also responsible for communications and also some creative work. So, you're like, some creative work. So, you're like, some creative work. So, you're like, "Ah, this week I spent x amount of hours "Ah, this week I spent x amount of hours "Ah, this week I spent x amount of hours preparing the sermon series design and preparing the sermon series design and preparing the sermon series design and its artwork and accompanying visuals."

its artwork and accompanying visuals." its artwork and accompanying visuals." Oh, and our announcements like didn't Oh, and our announcements like didn't Oh, and our announcements like didn't get prepped and they were awful. It's get prepped and they were awful. It's get prepped and they were awful. It's like, you know what? Like I I would like, you know what? Like I I would like, you know what? Like I I would rather spend that time preparing rather spend that time preparing rather spend that time preparing invitations to the congregation to invitations to the congregation to invitations to the congregation to respond and embody the work of the respond and embody the work of the respond and embody the work of the gospel by getting involved in the church gospel by getting involved in the church gospel by getting involved in the church life and make sure that my invitations life and make sure that my invitations life and make sure that my invitations are strong and full of story and show are strong and full of story and show are strong and full of story and show how valuable it is to be involved and how valuable it is to be involved and how valuable it is to be involved and get people from passive spectator to get people from passive spectator to get people from passive spectator to active participants rather than just be active participants rather than just be active participants rather than just be like glossy sermon graphic which like like glossy sermon graphic which like like glossy sermon graphic which like again like you said is that moving the again like you said is that moving the again like you said is that moving the needle on on what M needle on on what M needle on on what M >> maybe like this is a cynical take. >> maybe like this is a cynical take. >> maybe like this is a cynical take. Perhaps it's the pastor like I am Perhaps it's the pastor like I am Perhaps it's the pastor like I am putting so much work into delivering putting so much work into delivering putting so much work into delivering >> the word of God as they are and I want >> the word of God as they are and I want >> the word of God as they are and I want it to look as good on screen it to look as good on screen it to look as good on screen >> and represent how much I've prepared. >> and represent how much I've prepared. >> and represent how much I've prepared. But then again, I would get back to But then again, I would get back to But then again, I would get back to surely the contents of that sermon are surely the contents of that sermon are surely the contents of that sermon are all about this is this church's mission all about this is this church's mission all about this is this church's mission and here's how we live it out based on and here's how we live it out based on and here's how we live it out based on the wisdom of scripture in our area in the wisdom of scripture in our area in the wisdom of scripture in our area in our time. our time. our time. So then let's take the visual identity So then let's take the visual identity So then let's take the visual identity of the church and express that a video of the church and express that a video of the church and express that a video that we did last year on the YouTube that we did last year on the YouTube that we did last year on the YouTube channel. We created a free tool channel. We created a free tool channel. We created a free tool colors.nucleus.urch colors.nucleus.urch colors.nucleus.urch where you could go out into your town where you could go out into your town where you could go out into your town into your region, take a photo, upload into your region, take a photo, upload into your region, take a photo, upload it to that tool, colors.nucleus.urch.

it to that tool, colors.nucleus.urch. it to that tool, colors.nucleus.urch. It's free. And then it would give you It's free. And then it would give you It's free. And then it would give you all these different color palettes. So all these different color palettes. So all these different color palettes. So let's talk about a way to do this let's talk about a way to do this let's talk about a way to do this easily. every sermon series, just go out easily. every sermon series, just go out easily. every sermon series, just go out and like take a photo of your town or and like take a photo of your town or and like take a photo of your town or region and then take the colors from the region and then take the colors from the region and then take the colors from the color generator that extract from the color generator that extract from the color generator that extract from the photo and its tones and textures and photo and its tones and textures and photo and its tones and textures and then like do that every single month for then like do that every single month for then like do that every single month for a new series. If nothing else, those a new series. If nothing else, those a new series. If nothing else, those colors and those photos will be colors and those photos will be colors and those photos will be reflective of the community you're reflective of the community you're reflective of the community you're serving. Mhm. serving. Mhm. serving. Mhm. >> They'll be cohesive because like the >> They'll be cohesive because like the >> They'll be cohesive because like the colors will all have some similarities colors will all have some similarities colors will all have some similarities and the photos will all have some and the photos will all have some and the photos will all have some similarities and recognizable ability. similarities and recognizable ability. similarities and recognizable ability. That would probably be way less work and That would probably be way less work and That would probably be way less work and something different. I don't know. Give something different. I don't know. Give something different. I don't know. Give it a try. it a try. it a try. >> I think so. All right. Moving on back to >> I think so. All right. Moving on back to >> I think so. All right. Moving on back to stage design for a little bit. Why not? stage design for a little bit. Why not? stage design for a little bit. Why not? How about LED walls as the centerpiece How about LED walls as the centerpiece How about LED walls as the centerpiece of the stage? of the stage? of the stage? >> I want to keep these, too. >> I want to keep these, too. >> I want to keep these, too. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> I do because >> I do because >> I do because they're expensive. Mhm. I guess if you they're expensive. Mhm. I guess if you they're expensive. Mhm. I guess if you have one, you better keep it have one, you better keep it have one, you better keep it >> once it's [laughter] once it's up there, >> once it's [laughter] once it's up there, >> once it's [laughter] once it's up there, you can just do so many things with it.

you can just do so many things with it. you can just do so many things with it. >> Yeah. It's like until the tech is >> Yeah. It's like until the tech is >> Yeah. It's like until the tech is outdated. It's like infinitely outdated. It's like infinitely outdated. It's like infinitely remixable, to use the word that we've remixable, to use the word that we've remixable, to use the word that we've used already on the show. Like you can used already on the show. Like you can used already on the show. Like you can just you can put anything up there just you can put anything up there just you can put anything up there >> and it serves dual purpose. It can't be >> and it serves dual purpose. It can't be >> and it serves dual purpose. It can't be all of your lighting, but it's like all of your lighting, but it's like all of your lighting, but it's like >> your stage design, >> your stage design, >> your stage design, >> your lighting that's not spotlights on >> your lighting that's not spotlights on >> your lighting that's not spotlights on the actual people and your worship the actual people and your worship the actual people and your worship visuals. So I think what it gives you is visuals. So I think what it gives you is visuals. So I think what it gives you is the ability to allin-one solve those the ability to allin-one solve those the ability to allin-one solve those three things. You don't have to go, three things. You don't have to go, three things. You don't have to go, okay, we're going to do new stage okay, we're going to do new stage okay, we're going to do new stage design. What does that mean for design. What does that mean for design. What does that mean for lighting? What does that mean for like lighting? What does that mean for like lighting? What does that mean for like where we're putting the lyrics on where we're putting the lyrics on where we're putting the lyrics on screen? We're going to do all of that screen? We're going to do all of that screen? We're going to do all of that with one thing and it's infinitely with one thing and it's infinitely with one thing and it's infinitely flexible. flexible. flexible. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> maybe it's cost prohibitive and even >> maybe it's cost prohibitive and even >> maybe it's cost prohibitive and even with all of those needs being served, with all of those needs being served, with all of those needs being served, it's still like way too expensive. Um, it's still like way too expensive. Um, it's still like way too expensive. Um, but there's something to that but there's something to that but there's something to that flexibility and multi-pronged problem flexibility and multi-pronged problem flexibility and multi-pronged problem solving that entices me. solving that entices me. solving that entices me. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> You hate it. >> You hate it. >> You hate it. >> No, I don't hate it. I >> No, I don't hate it. I >> No, I don't hate it. I >> too late. You killed it. >> too late. You killed it. >> too late. You killed it. >> I think you're right that if you have >> I think you're right that if you have >> I think you're right that if you have one that it's like it's you ought to be one that it's like it's you ought to be one that it's like it's you ought to be content to continue to reimagine how you content to continue to reimagine how you content to continue to reimagine how you can use it like as for a long time and can use it like as for a long time and can use it like as for a long time and not feel the temptation to move on to not feel the temptation to move on to not feel the temptation to move on to something else because you've had the something else because you've had the something else because you've had the LED wall for 2 years or something.

LED wall for 2 years or something. LED wall for 2 years or something. >> Yeah. Um, but like you said, the cost is >> Yeah. Um, but like you said, the cost is >> Yeah. Um, but like you said, the cost is something to acknowledge that for something to acknowledge that for something to acknowledge that for smaller mid-size churches, like LED smaller mid-size churches, like LED smaller mid-size churches, like LED walls are are beyond the boundary of walls are are beyond the boundary of walls are are beyond the boundary of what's probably in the budget. So, we what's probably in the budget. So, we what's probably in the budget. So, we wouldn't want you to hear that like, oh, wouldn't want you to hear that like, oh, wouldn't want you to hear that like, oh, you should be saving towards one of you should be saving towards one of you should be saving towards one of these because you don't need one. But, these because you don't need one. But, these because you don't need one. But, if you have one, you should be content if you have one, you should be content if you have one, you should be content with it. Let's use a comparison. There with it. Let's use a comparison. There with it. Let's use a comparison. There are [clears throat] there's a camera are [clears throat] there's a camera are [clears throat] there's a camera that my pastor has wanted to put into that my pastor has wanted to put into that my pastor has wanted to put into our live stream for a long time, and we our live stream for a long time, and we our live stream for a long time, and we haven't because it's cost prohibitive. haven't because it's cost prohibitive. haven't because it's cost prohibitive. and it's like a camera on like a crane and it's like a camera on like a crane and it's like a camera on like a crane or like on one of those lines. So, it or like on one of those lines. So, it or like on one of those lines. So, it like is like, you know, flying over the like is like, you know, flying over the like is like, you know, flying over the sanctuary sanctuary sanctuary >> and ultimately it's like that would be >> and ultimately it's like that would be >> and ultimately it's like that would be the coolest shot, but it's a sprinkle the coolest shot, but it's a sprinkle the coolest shot, but it's a sprinkle shot, shot, shot, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Going back to the football broadcast >> Going back to the football broadcast >> Going back to the football broadcast example, like if you use that shot more example, like if you use that shot more example, like if you use that shot more than like once every three songs, once than like once every three songs, once than like once every three songs, once every two songs, it's like, okay, we get every two songs, it's like, okay, we get every two songs, it's like, okay, we get it. We can send the camera over the it. We can send the camera over the it. We can send the camera over the congregation. Like, it is no longer this congregation. Like, it is no longer this congregation. Like, it is no longer this like nice garnish. like you cannot make like nice garnish. like you cannot make like nice garnish. like you cannot make a meal out of sprinkles. a meal out of sprinkles. a meal out of sprinkles. >> And so it's not >> And so it's not >> And so it's not a good finances because as cool as it a good finances because as cool as it a good finances because as cool as it is, it has a very niche use case.

is, it has a very niche use case. is, it has a very niche use case. Whereas what I'm describing for the LED Whereas what I'm describing for the LED Whereas what I'm describing for the LED wall is like it unlocks so much wall is like it unlocks so much wall is like it unlocks so much flexibility and it solves all these flexibility and it solves all these flexibility and it solves all these problems. So yes, the the cost is high, problems. So yes, the the cost is high, problems. So yes, the the cost is high, but it's not just like this obscure but it's not just like this obscure but it's not just like this obscure utility. utility. utility. >> It solves a bunch of problems. If that's >> It solves a bunch of problems. If that's >> It solves a bunch of problems. If that's true, that's why I see it as like I true, that's why I see it as like I true, that's why I see it as like I don't think this is just a gimmick. I I don't think this is just a gimmick. I I don't think this is just a gimmick. I I think it has real utility. Yeah, you're think it has real utility. Yeah, you're think it has real utility. Yeah, you're right. All right, speaking about solving right. All right, speaking about solving right. All right, speaking about solving a bunch of problems, how about AI a bunch of problems, how about AI a bunch of problems, how about AI generated artwork? Okay, so here's my generated artwork? Okay, so here's my generated artwork? Okay, so here's my hot take on this, I'm going to say hot take on this, I'm going to say hot take on this, I'm going to say reinvent. Now, AI, of all the things it reinvent. Now, AI, of all the things it reinvent. Now, AI, of all the things it can do well, it is so bad at taste. And can do well, it is so bad at taste. And can do well, it is so bad at taste. And design is probably the thing it does the design is probably the thing it does the design is probably the thing it does the worst. We were having a conversation worst. We were having a conversation worst. We were having a conversation this week where we were just spotting AI this week where we were just spotting AI this week where we were just spotting AI social posts by their signatures. social posts by their signatures. social posts by their signatures. >> Yeah. Whether it's an eyebrow or >> Yeah. Whether it's an eyebrow or >> Yeah. Whether it's an eyebrow or two-tone design, like there are two-tone design, like there are two-tone design, like there are signatures of oneshotting design that signatures of oneshotting design that signatures of oneshotting design that are obvious. are obvious. are obvious. >> Make me a carousel >> Make me a carousel >> Make me a carousel about prayer with these points. Go about prayer with these points. Go about prayer with these points. Go download whatever it spits out, post it. download whatever it spits out, post it. download whatever it spits out, post it. >> Right? And that is like the promise that >> Right? And that is like the promise that >> Right? And that is like the promise that you'll see sometimes on Twitter X where you'll see sometimes on Twitter X where you'll see sometimes on Twitter X where like designing is dead. I just like designing is dead. I just like designing is dead. I just one-shotted this thing. Look at it. And one-shotted this thing. Look at it. And one-shotted this thing. Look at it. And let's kill oneshotting design 100%. The let's kill oneshotting design 100%. The let's kill oneshotting design 100%. The reinvention is as the creative director.

reinvention is as the creative director. reinvention is as the creative director. If you don't have certain skills, If you don't have certain skills, If you don't have certain skills, AI is really interesting because it AI is really interesting because it AI is really interesting because it allows you to prompt your way through allows you to prompt your way through allows you to prompt your way through things, things, things, it's not efficient. But if you don't it's not efficient. But if you don't it's not efficient. But if you don't have the skills, have the skills, have the skills, >> and I'm coming at this at least from >> and I'm coming at this at least from >> and I'm coming at this at least from like I recently designed a website. So like I recently designed a website. So like I recently designed a website. So there were ideas that I had for the there were ideas that I had for the there were ideas that I had for the website, website, website, >> design based ideas, >> design based ideas, >> design based ideas, >> design. This is all like the design >> design. This is all like the design >> design. This is all like the design side. And so what I would do was I would side. And so what I would do was I would side. And so what I would do was I would find creative inspiration and I had it find creative inspiration and I had it find creative inspiration and I had it all on a mood board and then I would all on a mood board and then I would all on a mood board and then I would come to the AI and say, "Okay, we need come to the AI and say, "Okay, we need come to the AI and say, "Okay, we need to redesign. We need to rebuild this, to redesign. We need to rebuild this, to redesign. We need to rebuild this, but with our brand and instead of this, but with our brand and instead of this, but with our brand and instead of this, I want this. Instead of this, I want I want this. Instead of this, I want I want this. Instead of this, I want this." So I'm the creative director this." So I'm the creative director this." So I'm the creative director >> and now [clears throat] it's doing stuff >> and now [clears throat] it's doing stuff >> and now [clears throat] it's doing stuff with code that I could not not otherwise with code that I could not not otherwise with code that I could not not otherwise do. And now those things exist on a do. And now those things exist on a do. And now those things exist on a page. page. page. >> And we one-shoted it. Not even close. We >> And we one-shoted it. Not even close. We >> And we one-shoted it. Not even close. We won million shots. won million shots. won million shots. >> I was going to say, how many shots? >> I was going to say, how many shots? >> I was going to say, how many shots? >> Over and over and over again. And I'm >> Over and over and over again. And I'm >> Over and over and over again. And I'm not saying this was efficient. I'm not not saying this was efficient. I'm not not saying this was efficient. I'm not saying you should do this, but we didn't saying you should do this, but we didn't saying you should do this, but we didn't have to use our design resources and we have to use our design resources and we have to use our design resources and we didn't have to use our engineering didn't have to use our engineering didn't have to use our engineering resources that were otherwise tied up.

resources that were otherwise tied up. resources that were otherwise tied up. And I redid the entire site as far as I And I redid the entire site as far as I And I redid the entire site as far as I can tell. It looks awesome. It bears no can tell. It looks awesome. It bears no can tell. It looks awesome. It bears no likeness to like AI design. AI likeness to like AI design. AI likeness to like AI design. AI wrote the code for it. Mhm. wrote the code for it. Mhm. wrote the code for it. Mhm. >> I was the creative director that gave it >> I was the creative director that gave it >> I was the creative director that gave it 100,000 different prompts to get there. 100,000 different prompts to get there. 100,000 different prompts to get there. Again, not efficient. But I think what Again, not efficient. But I think what Again, not efficient. But I think what that shows is like if you're the that shows is like if you're the that shows is like if you're the creative director on set, like the creative director on set, like the creative director on set, like the actual director on set, or if you're the actual director on set, or if you're the actual director on set, or if you're the creative director of a project, you're creative director of a project, you're creative director of a project, you're not doing every single thing every not doing every single thing every not doing every single thing every single time, but you are the one that's single time, but you are the one that's single time, but you are the one that's ultimately responsible and you're the ultimately responsible and you're the ultimately responsible and you're the one making all the judgment calls and one making all the judgment calls and one making all the judgment calls and all the calls on taste. And I think that all the calls on taste. And I think that all the calls on taste. And I think that what was cool about this for me was that what was cool about this for me was that what was cool about this for me was that we didn't have the resources that we we didn't have the resources that we we didn't have the resources that we normally had previously. That means we normally had previously. That means we normally had previously. That means we wait or we spend a ton of money on wait or we spend a ton of money on wait or we spend a ton of money on outside hires because our internal outside hires because our internal outside hires because our internal resources were exhausted. Instead, this resources were exhausted. Instead, this resources were exhausted. Instead, this allowed me to do it myself because I can allowed me to do it myself because I can allowed me to do it myself because I can create a direct. create a direct. create a direct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I just didn't have like the expertise on >> I just didn't have like the expertise on >> I just didn't have like the expertise on like the code and the lines. Don't one like the code and the lines. Don't one like the code and the lines. Don't one slop design. Oh my gosh. Please stop. We slop design. Oh my gosh. Please stop. We slop design. Oh my gosh. Please stop. We have to stop.

have to stop. have to stop. >> It is so bad. I don't know what happened >> It is so bad. I don't know what happened >> It is so bad. I don't know what happened in the last 2 weeks. Like every elder in the last 2 weeks. Like every elder in the last 2 weeks. Like every elder millennial got access to some AI um millennial got access to some AI um millennial got access to some AI um service that I'm not aware of, but like service that I'm not aware of, but like service that I'm not aware of, but like my Facebook feed in the last two weeks my Facebook feed in the last two weeks my Facebook feed in the last two weeks really has been really has been really has been >> there, you know, 4x5 little ads for um >> there, you know, 4x5 little ads for um >> there, you know, 4x5 little ads for um uh Emily's lemonade stand and this uh Emily's lemonade stand and this uh Emily's lemonade stand and this person's selling hot dogs and this person's selling hot dogs and this person's selling hot dogs and this company's doing this and every one of company's doing this and every one of company's doing this and every one of these designs looks exactly the same. I these designs looks exactly the same. I these designs looks exactly the same. I wish I could pull one up right now and wish I could pull one up right now and wish I could pull one up right now and show you. And that's the thing that's show you. And that's the thing that's show you. And that's the thing that's going if you choose to do that for to go going if you choose to do that for to go going if you choose to do that for to go back a couple points for your next back a couple points for your next back a couple points for your next sermon graphic. You come, there's a new sermon graphic. You come, there's a new sermon graphic. You come, there's a new sermon series. I'm out of ideas. I know sermon series. I'm out of ideas. I know sermon series. I'm out of ideas. I know what the sermon series called. I know what the sermon series called. I know what the sermon series called. I know what the scripture is. I just, hey, I what the scripture is. I just, hey, I what the scripture is. I just, hey, I need a sermon series graphic for a need a sermon series graphic for a need a sermon series graphic for a sermon series called this. These are the sermon series called this. These are the sermon series called this. These are the scriptures. And whatever it spits out to scriptures. And whatever it spits out to scriptures. And whatever it spits out to you on your one shot is what you post. you on your one shot is what you post. you on your one shot is what you post. That's the thing that's going to erode That's the thing that's going to erode That's the thing that's going to erode trust for people who are sitting in the trust for people who are sitting in the trust for people who are sitting in the congregation who want to know what's congregation who want to know what's congregation who want to know what's real, which in 2026, I don't know if real, which in 2026, I don't know if real, which in 2026, I don't know if it's if it's now more than ever, people it's if it's now more than ever, people it's if it's now more than ever, people are just desperate to know what's real.

are just desperate to know what's real. are just desperate to know what's real. And their AI detectors are up all the And their AI detectors are up all the And their AI detectors are up all the time. And when they see one shot slop, time. And when they see one shot slop, time. And when they see one shot slop, you're going to eventually, I think, you're going to eventually, I think, you're going to eventually, I think, erode trust in the people who are coming erode trust in the people who are coming erode trust in the people who are coming to like a really vulnerable place. But to like a really vulnerable place. But to like a really vulnerable place. But there, that's not to say you can't there, that's not to say you can't there, that's not to say you can't leverage the technology. can which is leverage the technology. can which is leverage the technology. can which is why we're saying for AI generated why we're saying for AI generated why we're saying for AI generated artwork like we have to reinvent how we artwork like we have to reinvent how we artwork like we have to reinvent how we imagine what we can do and also how we imagine what we can do and also how we imagine what we can do and also how we leverage the technology to do it. We leverage the technology to do it. We leverage the technology to do it. We cannot just be oneshotting this stuff or cannot just be oneshotting this stuff or cannot just be oneshotting this stuff or using like Canva AI or like that's cheap using like Canva AI or like that's cheap using like Canva AI or like that's cheap and people are going to spot that and it and people are going to spot that and it and people are going to spot that and it is going to erode trust but we can use is going to erode trust but we can use is going to erode trust but we can use this new found tech. You know, we're this new found tech. You know, we're this new found tech. You know, we're going to have to change the intro to going to have to change the intro to going to have to change the intro to this podcast soon enough because like this podcast soon enough because like this podcast soon enough because like the biggest communication shift did not the biggest communication shift did not the biggest communication shift did not happen 500 years ago. You know, like happen 500 years ago. You know, like happen 500 years ago. You know, like we're we're living through it right now. we're we're living through it right now. we're we're living through it right now. And this tech is really opening up some And this tech is really opening up some And this tech is really opening up some possibilities to I think be leveraged possibilities to I think be leveraged possibilities to I think be leveraged and used for good. But you you are and used for good. But you you are and used for good. But you you are likely going to have to be required to likely going to have to be required to likely going to have to be required to reimagine or reinvent how you think you reimagine or reinvent how you think you reimagine or reinvent how you think you can use it. Let's go to the final trend can use it. Let's go to the final trend can use it. Let's go to the final trend and criticize a real designer's work and criticize a real designer's work and criticize a real designer's work because we just criticized the robots.

because we just criticized the robots. because we just criticized the robots. Let's criticize a real designer. Let's criticize a real designer. Let's criticize a real designer. >> Okay. This is the trend of using trendy >> Okay. This is the trend of using trendy >> Okay. This is the trend of using trendy type faces that sacrifice readability. type faces that sacrifice readability. type faces that sacrifice readability. >> We got to kill it. I've had enough. >> We got to kill it. I've had enough. >> We got to kill it. I've had enough. There's a visual on the screen. There's a visual on the screen. There's a visual on the screen. What word? What What does this say? What word? What What does this say? What word? What What does this say? >> I see two words and I know there are >> I see two words and I know there are >> I see two words and I know there are more than that. more than that. more than that. >> Yes, it says we saved your seat. But on >> Yes, it says we saved your seat. But on >> Yes, it says we saved your seat. But on first view, it looks like the letter me first view, it looks like the letter me first view, it looks like the letter me and your eyes don't really know where to and your eyes don't really know where to and your eyes don't really know where to go. go. go. >> Here's the thing. Clear over clever is >> Here's the thing. Clear over clever is >> Here's the thing. Clear over clever is the rule for work in church in the rule for work in church in the rule for work in church in communications and creativity. Clear communications and creativity. Clear communications and creativity. Clear over clever. Look, the color tones of over clever. Look, the color tones of over clever. Look, the color tones of this, the spacing, the composition, it's this, the spacing, the composition, it's this, the spacing, the composition, it's negative space, it's all working negative space, it's all working negative space, it's all working >> fine. Yeah. But the readability is not >> fine. Yeah. But the readability is not >> fine. Yeah. But the readability is not there. And it shouldn't take the there. And it shouldn't take the there. And it shouldn't take the congregation looking at something for congregation looking at something for congregation looking at something for like 3 seconds or longer to figure out like 3 seconds or longer to figure out like 3 seconds or longer to figure out what it says. Yeah. Especially on a what it says. Yeah. Especially on a what it says. Yeah. Especially on a social post here because we're just social post here because we're just social post here because we're just going to keep scrolling. What does that going to keep scrolling. What does that going to keep scrolling. What does that say? I don't know. Keep going to the say? I don't know. Keep going to the say? I don't know. Keep going to the next one. You cannot sacrifice next one. You cannot sacrifice next one. You cannot sacrifice readability for trendy type faces. readability for trendy type faces. readability for trendy type faces. >> We as creatives get stuck in this all >> We as creatives get stuck in this all >> We as creatives get stuck in this all the time. We're like, I'm going to do the time. We're like, I'm going to do the time. We're like, I'm going to do something cool. If the coolness is not something cool. If the coolness is not something cool. If the coolness is not anchored into like the objective that anchored into like the objective that anchored into like the objective that needs to be fulfilled, it doesn't work.

needs to be fulfilled, it doesn't work. needs to be fulfilled, it doesn't work. And that's why clear over clever is the And that's why clear over clever is the And that's why clear over clever is the axiom that you need to remind yourself axiom that you need to remind yourself axiom that you need to remind yourself of because of because of because >> so long as it's clear, it can be >> so long as it's clear, it can be >> so long as it's clear, it can be artistic. artistic. artistic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But when we try to do things that are >> But when we try to do things that are >> But when we try to do things that are clever, little too cute, little I'm clever, little too cute, little I'm clever, little too cute, little I'm going to like really mix it up. This is going to like really mix it up. This is going to like really mix it up. This is an example of that. It's this cleverness an example of that. It's this cleverness an example of that. It's this cleverness that actually sacrifices the entire tent that actually sacrifices the entire tent that actually sacrifices the entire tent uh intent of what we're trying to do. uh intent of what we're trying to do. uh intent of what we're trying to do. >> Yeah, that's a shame. >> Yeah, that's a shame. >> Yeah, that's a shame. >> Eight trends that we put on trial. I >> Eight trends that we put on trial. I >> Eight trends that we put on trial. I think we What did we do? We we think we What did we do? We we think we What did we do? We we reinvented reinvented reinvented >> two. A couple. >> two. A couple. >> two. A couple. >> We kept like four. >> We kept like four. >> We kept like four. >> Yeah, we killed killed a few. Killed a >> Yeah, we killed killed a few. Killed a >> Yeah, we killed killed a few. Killed a few. Let us know your thoughts in the few. Let us know your thoughts in the few. Let us know your thoughts in the comments where you disagree. Give us comments where you disagree. Give us comments where you disagree. Give us your personal feedback about the 360 your personal feedback about the 360 your personal feedback about the 360 stage or the stage that is almost 360. stage or the stage that is almost 360. stage or the stage that is almost 360. And thanks as always for your time, And thanks as always for your time, And thanks as always for your time, attention, and trust. We'll talk to you attention, and trust. We'll talk to you attention, and trust. We'll talk to you next Wednesday. Let's dive.