Church Live Streaming Is Dead (here’s what’s next)

Church live streaming is profoundly Church live streaming is profoundly misunderstood. You might think it's a misunderstood. You might think it's a misunderstood. You might think it's a threat or you might think it's an asset. threat or you might think it's an asset. threat or you might think it's an asset. The reality is that you almost certainly The reality is that you almost certainly The reality is that you almost certainly have some incorrect beliefs about church have some incorrect beliefs about church have some incorrect beliefs about church online. So, let's interrogate them and online. So, let's interrogate them and online. So, let's interrogate them and let's talk about what's emerging in this let's talk about what's emerging in this let's talk about what's emerging in this season of digital ministry. Let's dive season of digital ministry. Let's dive season of digital ministry. Let's dive in. in. in. Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the Well, hey there and welcome to the ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help ProChurch Tool Show. We're here to help you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest you and your church navigate the biggest communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm communication shift in 500 years. I'm Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as Brady Sheerer, your host. I'm joined as always by my co-host. He hates cilantro, always by my co-host. He hates cilantro, always by my co-host. He hates cilantro, but he loves the Lord. It's Alexander but he loves the Lord. It's Alexander but he loves the Lord. It's Alexander Mills. Hello. Hello. We weren't going to Mills. Hello. Hello. We weren't going to Mills. Hello. Hello. We weren't going to kick off today's episode by playing an kick off today's episode by playing an kick off today's episode by playing an excerpt of another podcast, the Mature excerpt of another podcast, the Mature excerpt of another podcast, the Mature Me podcast, which is Rich Wilkerson Me podcast, which is Rich Wilkerson Me podcast, which is Rich Wilkerson Jr.'s pod, the pastor out of Miami at VU Jr.'s pod, the pastor out of Miami at VU Jr.'s pod, the pastor out of Miami at VU Church. He is joined by his guest Sean Church. He is joined by his guest Sean Church. He is joined by his guest Sean Kel, our friend famously. Sean is a Kel, our friend famously. Sean is a Kel, our friend famously. Sean is a YouTube expert and has served in the YouTube expert and has served in the YouTube expert and has served in the church space for many years as well. And church space for many years as well. And church space for many years as well. And they are discussing live streaming. they are discussing live streaming. they are discussing live streaming. Let's take it away. I think a a huge Let's take it away. I think a a huge Let's take it away. I think a a huge mistake that churches make is live mistake that churches make is live mistake that churches make is live streaming their services. Um I should streaming their services. Um I should streaming their services. Um I should put some context. Wow. I would say put some context. Wow. I would say put some context. Wow. I would say listen when VU live streams that's listen when VU live streams that's listen when VU live streams that's amazing that you guys do it. I think amazing that you guys do it. I think amazing that you guys do it. I think churches that live stream their services churches that live stream their services churches that live stream their services at a low quality. Okay. Like I'd rather at a low quality. Okay. Like I'd rather at a low quality. Okay. Like I'd rather you just not even do it. And even you just not even do it. And even you just not even do it. And even another mistake I I think that it's a another mistake I I think that it's a another mistake I I think that it's a mistake to live stream worship for most mistake to live stream worship for most mistake to live stream worship for most churches because you just can't get the churches because you just can't get the churches because you just can't get the mix right. It's just it's so hard to get mix right. It's just it's so hard to get mix right. It's just it's so hard to get that right. And I think that so maybe it that right. And I think that so maybe it that right. And I think that so maybe it would be uh don't live your don't live

would be uh don't live your don't live would be uh don't live your don't live stream your services unless I think it's stream your services unless I think it's stream your services unless I think it's like we should have minimal quality like we should have minimal quality like we should have minimal quality standards. Like there there is a point standards. Like there there is a point standards. Like there there is a point where it drops too low. Your phone in a where it drops too low. Your phone in a where it drops too low. Your phone in a poorly lit stage, no microphone. I mean, poorly lit stage, no microphone. I mean, poorly lit stage, no microphone. I mean, by the way, a microphone plugged into by the way, a microphone plugged into by the way, a microphone plugged into your phone and connected to your shirt your phone and connected to your shirt your phone and connected to your shirt while you're preaching is is a a $100 while you're preaching is is a a $100 while you're preaching is is a a $100 purchase on Amazon, but I'm talking purchase on Amazon, but I'm talking purchase on Amazon, but I'm talking about churches are live streaming with about churches are live streaming with about churches are live streaming with the echoey phone audio and they're the echoey phone audio and they're the echoey phone audio and they're walking in and out of frame and I'm walking in and out of frame and I'm walking in and out of frame and I'm like, why even do it? Like, I think like, why even do it? Like, I think like, why even do it? Like, I think there is a level like you shouldn't do there is a level like you shouldn't do there is a level like you shouldn't do it unless you can do it excellently. And it unless you can do it excellently. And it unless you can do it excellently. And then there I think with empathy because then there I think with empathy because then there I think with empathy because I know budget and time and resource and I know budget and time and resource and I know budget and time and resource and who can help, but I think there's ways who can help, but I think there's ways who can help, but I think there's ways to do it. Like I it'd be better maybe to to do it. Like I it'd be better maybe to to do it. Like I it'd be better maybe to get some accessories, get some lighting, get some accessories, get some lighting, get some accessories, get some lighting, maybe record the the service and maybe maybe record the the service and maybe maybe record the the service and maybe edit it down. So then I think if you're edit it down. So then I think if you're edit it down. So then I think if you're going to live stream, live stream at a going to live stream, live stream at a going to live stream, live stream at a at a basic level of quality. And I at a basic level of quality. And I at a basic level of quality. And I there's just so much information out there's just so much information out there's just so much information out there. There's all of our stuff. We there. There's all of our stuff. We there. There's all of our stuff. We teach on this stuff. We have all these teach on this stuff. We have all these teach on this stuff. We have all these free videos. A friend of mine, Brady, uh free videos. A friend of mine, Brady, uh free videos. A friend of mine, Brady, uh has his ProChurch Tools channel. He's has his ProChurch Tools channel. He's has his ProChurch Tools channel. He's got um there's there's a lot of good got um there's there's a lot of good got um there's there's a lot of good church resources that will help you on a church resources that will help you on a church resources that will help you on a budget get it's so affordable now. So, budget get it's so affordable now. So, budget get it's so affordable now. So, okay. I we I had never listened that far okay. I we I had never listened that far okay. I we I had never listened that far in the clip. I in the clip. I in the clip. I I played the clip. I had not listened I played the clip. I had not listened I played the clip. I had not listened that far. I that far. I that far. I Okay, to summarize what Sean talks Okay, to summarize what Sean talks Okay, to summarize what Sean talks about, you should listen to our show, about, you should listen to our show, about, you should listen to our show, consume our stuff, buy our products.

consume our stuff, buy our products. consume our stuff, buy our products. Thanks, Sean. Next. Oh, man. Our guy. Thanks, Sean. Next. Oh, man. Our guy. Thanks, Sean. Next. Oh, man. Our guy. Um, he talks about worship quality and Um, he talks about worship quality and Um, he talks about worship quality and if it's a certain level, you may as well if it's a certain level, you may as well if it's a certain level, you may as well not do it. He alludes to the idea that not do it. He alludes to the idea that not do it. He alludes to the idea that no one's really watching for anything no one's really watching for anything no one's really watching for anything but the sermon and you can get by with but the sermon and you can get by with but the sermon and you can get by with just that. He talked about needing just that. He talked about needing just that. He talked about needing quality standards and he also talked quality standards and he also talked quality standards and he also talked about publishing sermons with like no about publishing sermons with like no about publishing sermons with like no repurposing and just like throwing it up repurposing and just like throwing it up repurposing and just like throwing it up there. Bridgetown Church with founding there. Bridgetown Church with founding there. Bridgetown Church with founding pastor John Mark Comr. They made waves pastor John Mark Comr. They made waves pastor John Mark Comr. They made waves earlier this year, March 2025, when they earlier this year, March 2025, when they earlier this year, March 2025, when they announced they would no longer be live announced they would no longer be live announced they would no longer be live streaming their services. What was maybe streaming their services. What was maybe streaming their services. What was maybe not as well publicized in their not as well publicized in their not as well publicized in their announcement, no fault of their own, was announcement, no fault of their own, was announcement, no fault of their own, was that they're still publishing the video that they're still publishing the video that they're still publishing the video versions of the sermons, they're just versions of the sermons, they're just versions of the sermons, they're just not live streaming the full service. not live streaming the full service. not live streaming the full service. Interestingly, Shawn and Bridgetown Interestingly, Shawn and Bridgetown Interestingly, Shawn and Bridgetown arriving at the same place and I arriving at the same place and I arriving at the same place and I actually think with similar motivations, actually think with similar motivations, actually think with similar motivations, but on the surface it kind of looks like but on the surface it kind of looks like but on the surface it kind of looks like different motivations. Sean is saying different motivations. Sean is saying different motivations. Sean is saying like we just don't want to look bad like like we just don't want to look bad like like we just don't want to look bad like practical and Bridgetown's coming to it practical and Bridgetown's coming to it practical and Bridgetown's coming to it from the stance of like theological. Um from the stance of like theological. Um from the stance of like theological. Um I actually think that their underlying I actually think that their underlying I actually think that their underlying motivations are quite similar. So this motivations are quite similar. So this motivations are quite similar. So this is also in line with what we have talked is also in line with what we have talked is also in line with what we have talked about historically on this show. We're about historically on this show. We're about historically on this show. We're going to do a little bit of history going to do a little bit of history going to do a little bit of history here. Before co, you can find many here. Before co, you can find many here. Before co, you can find many videos from this channel of me being videos from this channel of me being videos from this channel of me being like, don't live stream for very similar like, don't live stream for very similar like, don't live stream for very similar reasons that Sean just mentioned. Hey, reasons that Sean just mentioned. Hey, reasons that Sean just mentioned. Hey, there are actually great alternatives.

there are actually great alternatives. there are actually great alternatives. Publish a podcast. Publish a video Publish a podcast. Publish a video Publish a podcast. Publish a video version of your sermon. You can do it version of your sermon. You can do it version of your sermon. You can do it extremely affordably. The mic that extremely affordably. The mic that extremely affordably. The mic that Sean's talking about is a $100 DJI Mic 2 Sean's talking about is a $100 DJI Mic 2 Sean's talking about is a $100 DJI Mic 2 that you can plug directly into a phone. that you can plug directly into a phone. that you can plug directly into a phone. So the audio wirelessly transmutates via So the audio wirelessly transmutates via So the audio wirelessly transmutates via Bluetooth from you the lapel to your Bluetooth from you the lapel to your Bluetooth from you the lapel to your phone and it's baked in. And so now you phone and it's baked in. And so now you phone and it's baked in. And so now you have video with outstanding audio have video with outstanding audio have video with outstanding audio quality of a sermon. Easy. A great quality of a sermon. Easy. A great quality of a sermon. Easy. A great solution. Co comes around and what do we solution. Co comes around and what do we solution. Co comes around and what do we do? We flip-flop. No, but we do start do? We flip-flop. No, but we do start do? We flip-flop. No, but we do start publishing a lot of content on live publishing a lot of content on live publishing a lot of content on live streaming. Why? Because my belief is streaming. Why? Because my belief is streaming. Why? Because my belief is that I have a personal responsibility as that I have a personal responsibility as that I have a personal responsibility as the person that comes up with content the person that comes up with content the person that comes up with content ideas to serve churches and their needs. ideas to serve churches and their needs. ideas to serve churches and their needs. And so that means I should talk about And so that means I should talk about And so that means I should talk about what I believe is right. I should also what I believe is right. I should also what I believe is right. I should also serve needs when they are overwhelming serve needs when they are overwhelming serve needs when they are overwhelming even if they go against what I would even if they go against what I would even if they go against what I would recommend. And during that season of co recommend. And during that season of co recommend. And during that season of co the demand was overwhelming. And so we the demand was overwhelming. And so we the demand was overwhelming. And so we created content some of our some of created content some of our some of created content some of our some of those videos have the most views on this those videos have the most views on this those videos have the most views on this channel saying hey here's how to live channel saying hey here's how to live channel saying hey here's how to live stream affordably. Here are ways to do stream affordably. Here are ways to do stream affordably. Here are ways to do it well. Here's how to do it in a way it well. Here's how to do it in a way it well. Here's how to do it in a way that leads people to next steps and that leads people to next steps and that leads people to next steps and becoming active participants in church becoming active participants in church becoming active participants in church even when we are separated.

even when we are separated. even when we are separated. We are no longer in that time. We have We are no longer in that time. We have We are no longer in that time. We have left that space. And what's happened is left that space. And what's happened is left that space. And what's happened is we have continued to approach our live we have continued to approach our live we have continued to approach our live streams and we've just lived off of the streams and we've just lived off of the streams and we've just lived off of the infrastructure that we built during co. infrastructure that we built during co. infrastructure that we built during co. There's nothing wrong with that except There's nothing wrong with that except There's nothing wrong with that except for hey, if we're no longer in that for hey, if we're no longer in that for hey, if we're no longer in that space, right? Should we still be doing space, right? Should we still be doing space, right? Should we still be doing that? Like you go on vacation, maybe you that? Like you go on vacation, maybe you that? Like you go on vacation, maybe you eat a certain way. Okay, you come home eat a certain way. Okay, you come home eat a certain way. Okay, you come home and you're like, well, if I eat all that and you're like, well, if I eat all that and you're like, well, if I eat all that if I eat like that all the time, not if I eat like that all the time, not if I eat like that all the time, not going to be healthy. Not saying it was going to be healthy. Not saying it was going to be healthy. Not saying it was unhealthy. It's a bad metaphor, but I'm unhealthy. It's a bad metaphor, but I'm unhealthy. It's a bad metaphor, but I'm just trying to create some type of just trying to create some type of just trying to create some type of anchor to a metaphor. So, let's anchor to a metaphor. So, let's anchor to a metaphor. So, let's interrogate. That's what we want to do interrogate. That's what we want to do interrogate. That's what we want to do on this episode. And so, here are the on this episode. And so, here are the on this episode. And so, here are the questions that we're going to be questions that we're going to be questions that we're going to be answering and exploring. Number one, is answering and exploring. Number one, is answering and exploring. Number one, is online church replacing in-person online church replacing in-person online church replacing in-person worship? Number two, inversely, does worship? Number two, inversely, does worship? Number two, inversely, does in-person attendance reduce online in-person attendance reduce online in-person attendance reduce online church? So, if we get you to actually church? So, if we get you to actually church? So, if we get you to actually come in person, does that mean you come in person, does that mean you come in person, does that mean you probably will just stop watching? Number probably will just stop watching? Number probably will just stop watching? Number three, do people prefer online church? three, do people prefer online church? three, do people prefer online church? And number four, if someone does, who And number four, if someone does, who And number four, if someone does, who are these people? Who prefers online are these people? Who prefers online are these people? Who prefers online church? Um, we know how important this church? Um, we know how important this church? Um, we know how important this topic is based on the views that we get topic is based on the views that we get topic is based on the views that we get on these videos. Even before co anytime on these videos. Even before co anytime on these videos. Even before co anytime we'd mention live production, churches we'd mention live production, churches we'd mention live production, churches would be like, "Oh yeah, I got to click would be like, "Oh yeah, I got to click would be like, "Oh yeah, I got to click on this video." And so what we know is on this video." And so what we know is on this video." And so what we know is that this is still top of mind for that this is still top of mind for that this is still top of mind for churches. Alexander, anything you'd like churches. Alexander, anything you'd like churches. Alexander, anything you'd like to hit on after that monologue before we to hit on after that monologue before we to hit on after that monologue before we dive in? Well, hey, you alluded to it.

dive in? Well, hey, you alluded to it. dive in? Well, hey, you alluded to it. We've been talking about live streaming We've been talking about live streaming We've been talking about live streaming on this show for a long time. Um, and on this show for a long time. Um, and on this show for a long time. Um, and something else we talk about at length something else we talk about at length something else we talk about at length on this show. It it kind of is the the on this show. It it kind of is the the on this show. It it kind of is the the thread through most of what we talk thread through most of what we talk thread through most of what we talk about is this value of prioritizing about is this value of prioritizing about is this value of prioritizing mission over method. And I think that's mission over method. And I think that's mission over method. And I think that's kind of going to be the anchor for this kind of going to be the anchor for this kind of going to be the anchor for this conversation and kind of always has been conversation and kind of always has been conversation and kind of always has been in our opinion pieces about live stream. in our opinion pieces about live stream. in our opinion pieces about live stream. Sure, we've done we've done the pieces Sure, we've done we've done the pieces Sure, we've done we've done the pieces like, okay, we know churches are live like, okay, we know churches are live like, okay, we know churches are live streaming and they still have the streaming and they still have the streaming and they still have the question of like, what camera should I question of like, what camera should I question of like, what camera should I be using in in 2021 uh, peak COVID to be using in in 2021 uh, peak COVID to be using in in 2021 uh, peak COVID to live stream? And so we meet that need, live stream? And so we meet that need, live stream? And so we meet that need, but this question still remains of but this question still remains of but this question still remains of mission over method. And and you said mission over method. And and you said mission over method. And and you said we're just not in that season anymore. we're just not in that season anymore. we're just not in that season anymore. So now we get an opportunity to So now we get an opportunity to So now we get an opportunity to re-evaluate the methods by which we are re-evaluate the methods by which we are re-evaluate the methods by which we are trying to fulfill our mission, which is trying to fulfill our mission, which is trying to fulfill our mission, which is to see people become more integrated to see people become more integrated to see people become more integrated members in their churches, to see people members in their churches, to see people members in their churches, to see people take more next steps in their journey take more next steps in their journey take more next steps in their journey with Jesus, to make disciples. And so with Jesus, to make disciples. And so with Jesus, to make disciples. And so that's what this is, a little bit of an that's what this is, a little bit of an that's what this is, a little bit of an interrogation of the method of live interrogation of the method of live interrogation of the method of live streaming. And um we have some data to streaming. And um we have some data to streaming. And um we have some data to hold it up against. Yeah. Let's start hold it up against. Yeah. Let's start hold it up against. Yeah. Let's start here. In person versus on versus online.

here. In person versus on versus online. here. In person versus on versus online. What does the data say? So, Pew Research What does the data say? So, Pew Research What does the data say? So, Pew Research Center surveyed over 11,000 Americans Center surveyed over 11,000 Americans Center surveyed over 11,000 Americans post pandemic asking about their worship post pandemic asking about their worship post pandemic asking about their worship service habits both in person and service habits both in person and service habits both in person and online. In the survey, they asked two online. In the survey, they asked two online. In the survey, they asked two questions. Number one, did you attend questions. Number one, did you attend questions. Number one, did you attend religious services in person at a religious services in person at a religious services in person at a church, synagogue, mosque, or other church, synagogue, mosque, or other church, synagogue, mosque, or other house of worship? And then two, in the house of worship? And then two, in the house of worship? And then two, in the last month, have you watched religious last month, have you watched religious last month, have you watched religious services online or on TV? So, this was services online or on TV? So, this was services online or on TV? So, this was in the last month. That was the context in the last month. That was the context in the last month. That was the context for these questions. And the conclusion for these questions. And the conclusion for these questions. And the conclusion that came out of this data was that the that came out of this data was that the that came out of this data was that the idea that like has been proliferated idea that like has been proliferated idea that like has been proliferated that online church is this existential that online church is this existential that online church is this existential threat to in-person attendance is threat to in-person attendance is threat to in-person attendance is largely unfounded. largely unfounded. largely unfounded. The idea that most people are abandoning The idea that most people are abandoning The idea that most people are abandoning inerson gatherings for online service inerson gatherings for online service inerson gatherings for online service was not supported by the data. That's was not supported by the data. That's was not supported by the data. That's kind of the headline, but we have to dig kind of the headline, but we have to dig kind of the headline, but we have to dig a little bit deeper. So the second a little bit deeper. So the second a little bit deeper. So the second question is does in-person attendance question is does in-person attendance question is does in-person attendance reduce online participation? Because reduce online participation? Because reduce online participation? Because that would make sense, right? If we that would make sense, right? If we that would make sense, right? If we don't see this huge contingent of people don't see this huge contingent of people don't see this huge contingent of people that are exclusively watching online, that are exclusively watching online, that are exclusively watching online, then if we can get the remaining people then if we can get the remaining people then if we can get the remaining people into church, then we'd have almost no into church, then we'd have almost no into church, then we'd have almost no one watching online. Surprisingly, no.

one watching online. Surprisingly, no. one watching online. Surprisingly, no. In fact, there was a positive In fact, there was a positive In fact, there was a positive correlation here because in the data set correlation here because in the data set correlation here because in the data set only 6% of people were in the category only 6% of people were in the category only 6% of people were in the category of they never attend in person but they of they never attend in person but they of they never attend in person but they also watch online like only online also watch online like only online also watch online like only online folks. 6% of people. Who are those folks. 6% of people. Who are those folks. 6% of people. Who are those people? We'll get to that later. Among people? We'll get to that later. Among people? We'll get to that later. Among those who attend multiple in-person those who attend multiple in-person those who attend multiple in-person services per week, so they're the people services per week, so they're the people services per week, so they're the people that show up on Sunday, they're coming that show up on Sunday, they're coming that show up on Sunday, they're coming to the midweek super churches. Yeah. 57% to the midweek super churches. Yeah. 57% to the midweek super churches. Yeah. 57% of those people also watch online. So of those people also watch online. So of those people also watch online. So the interpretation here is that number the interpretation here is that number the interpretation here is that number one, people who are highly engaged with one, people who are highly engaged with one, people who are highly engaged with inerson worship are more likely to inerson worship are more likely to inerson worship are more likely to engage online too. And it's inerson engage online too. And it's inerson engage online too. And it's inerson worship that actually drives online worship that actually drives online worship that actually drives online participation, not the other way around. participation, not the other way around. participation, not the other way around. And at first consideration, And at first consideration, And at first consideration, maybe this wouldn't be the conclusion maybe this wouldn't be the conclusion maybe this wouldn't be the conclusion that you come to. But now that you see that you come to. But now that you see that you come to. But now that you see it presented, I remember seeing this it presented, I remember seeing this it presented, I remember seeing this presented in data form for the first presented in data form for the first presented in data form for the first time. I took a moment to sit with it and time. I took a moment to sit with it and time. I took a moment to sit with it and think about it as I think about the think about it as I think about the think about it as I think about the people who make up our church people who make up our church people who make up our church communities. And I realized, well, yes, communities. And I realized, well, yes, communities. And I realized, well, yes, of course, the folks who are attending of course, the folks who are attending of course, the folks who are attending both Sunday services, coming out to both Sunday services, coming out to both Sunday services, coming out to Wednesday prayer, serving at the soup Wednesday prayer, serving at the soup Wednesday prayer, serving at the soup kitchen on Saturday, the super churches, kitchen on Saturday, the super churches, kitchen on Saturday, the super churches, if you will, of course, those are the if you will, of course, those are the if you will, of course, those are the folks who are also um ingesting online folks who are also um ingesting online folks who are also um ingesting online content because it's not just your content because it's not just your content because it's not just your church's online content. It's online church's online content. It's online church's online content. It's online content from all sorts of churches that content from all sorts of churches that content from all sorts of churches that they're probably going home to digest they're probably going home to digest they're probably going home to digest because they just they just want all of because they just they just want all of because they just they just want all of it. And so I I wouldn't I don't think I it. And so I I wouldn't I don't think I it. And so I I wouldn't I don't think I would have made this correlation if I would have made this correlation if I would have made this correlation if I didn't see the data. But when I saw the didn't see the data. But when I saw the didn't see the data. But when I saw the data, it did make sense to me. Which

data, it did make sense to me. Which data, it did make sense to me. Which leads to our third question. Is online leads to our third question. Is online leads to our third question. Is online church replacing in-person worship? Feel church replacing in-person worship? Feel church replacing in-person worship? Feel like we've hit this at this point. But I like we've hit this at this point. But I like we've hit this at this point. But I think Ryan Burge summarizes it really think Ryan Burge summarizes it really think Ryan Burge summarizes it really well. Quote, he says as he analyzes the well. Quote, he says as he analyzes the well. Quote, he says as he analyzes the data, as is his profession, there is no data, as is his profession, there is no data, as is his profession, there is no crowding out effect. Virtual worship is crowding out effect. Virtual worship is crowding out effect. Virtual worship is mostly an add-on for people already mostly an add-on for people already mostly an add-on for people already engaged in religious life. So, it's not engaged in religious life. So, it's not engaged in religious life. So, it's not an evangelical tool. You're not reaching an evangelical tool. You're not reaching an evangelical tool. You're not reaching folks who are unchurched and at least on folks who are unchurched and at least on folks who are unchurched and at least on mass. We saw the number 6% of folks who mass. We saw the number 6% of folks who mass. We saw the number 6% of folks who who don't regularly go to church have who don't regularly go to church have who don't regularly go to church have watched an online service in the last watched an online service in the last watched an online service in the last month. So, it's not this it's not this month. So, it's not this it's not this month. So, it's not this it's not this um you know uh inventive uh evangelical um you know uh inventive uh evangelical um you know uh inventive uh evangelical tool to reach an unchurched population. tool to reach an unchurched population. tool to reach an unchurched population. And it's actually just doubling down on And it's actually just doubling down on And it's actually just doubling down on the folks who are really engaged in your the folks who are really engaged in your the folks who are really engaged in your church already. Yeah. And I think that's church already. Yeah. And I think that's church already. Yeah. And I think that's a really important takeaway because a really important takeaway because a really important takeaway because live streaming live streaming live streaming to do it well costs a lot of money. Even to do it well costs a lot of money. Even to do it well costs a lot of money. Even now the tools have become incredibly now the tools have become incredibly now the tools have become incredibly more affordable thanks to manufacturers more affordable thanks to manufacturers more affordable thanks to manufacturers like Blackmagic Design. Um to do just like Blackmagic Design. Um to do just like Blackmagic Design. Um to do just your sermon not hard at all. It's the your sermon not hard at all. It's the your sermon not hard at all. It's the worship bit. Sean said it. You need you worship bit. Sean said it. You need you worship bit. Sean said it. You need you you to do it well where it's actually you to do it well where it's actually you to do it well where it's actually enjoyable to where it actually inspires enjoyable to where it actually inspires enjoyable to where it actually inspires worship. It's actually palatable to worship. It's actually palatable to worship. It's actually palatable to listen to it almost requires an entirely listen to it almost requires an entirely listen to it almost requires an entirely dedicated dedicated dedicated board and mix to pull it off well and board and mix to pull it off well and board and mix to pull it off well and who like realistically the average who like realistically the average who like realistically the average church size in America about 65 people.

church size in America about 65 people. church size in America about 65 people. Who has those types of resources? Yes. Who has those types of resources? Yes. Who has those types of resources? Yes. And so then you think to yourself, okay, And so then you think to yourself, okay, And so then you think to yourself, okay, but every church is doing it and but every church is doing it and but every church is doing it and presumably that must be because this is presumably that must be because this is presumably that must be because this is critical for people evaluating our critical for people evaluating our critical for people evaluating our church. If we want someone to come in church. If we want someone to come in church. If we want someone to come in person, they're going to first check us person, they're going to first check us person, they're going to first check us out online. If we don't have a full out online. If we don't have a full out online. If we don't have a full service, like they'll never consider service, like they'll never consider service, like they'll never consider checking us out online. Well, the data checking us out online. Well, the data checking us out online. Well, the data would suggest that's not true. Yeah. And would suggest that's not true. Yeah. And would suggest that's not true. Yeah. And so that gives us the freedom to so that gives us the freedom to so that gives us the freedom to interrogate this with a bit more of a interrogate this with a bit more of a interrogate this with a bit more of a critical eye. So then the question that critical eye. So then the question that critical eye. So then the question that we go to next is we go to next is we go to next is okay, there are some people watching. okay, there are some people watching. okay, there are some people watching. Are they um who are they and and do they Are they um who are they and and do they Are they um who are they and and do they prefer it? prefer it? prefer it? And what's interesting is when you look And what's interesting is when you look And what's interesting is when you look at the generational breakdown, you can at the generational breakdown, you can at the generational breakdown, you can see, okay, younger people claim they see, okay, younger people claim they see, okay, younger people claim they prefer online church more than older prefer online church more than older prefer online church more than older people, but like by a small amount and people, but like by a small amount and people, but like by a small amount and every generation says they do not prefer every generation says they do not prefer every generation says they do not prefer it relative to in person. So like that's it relative to in person. So like that's it relative to in person. So like that's really really key. It's a convenient really really key. It's a convenient really really key. It's a convenient supplement, not a replacement. Yes, it's supplement, not a replacement. Yes, it's supplement, not a replacement. Yes, it's also not even a preferred replacement.

also not even a preferred replacement. also not even a preferred replacement. And this gets to the final question. And this gets to the final question. And this gets to the final question. Okay, who is watching online church the Okay, who is watching online church the Okay, who is watching online church the most? This 6% like what is the largest most? This 6% like what is the largest most? This 6% like what is the largest chunk of that pie? Maybe younger people, chunk of that pie? Maybe younger people, chunk of that pie? Maybe younger people, right? They did claim natives they right? They did claim natives they right? They did claim natives they preferred online church more. No. 35% of preferred online church more. No. 35% of preferred online church more. No. 35% of online attenders are retirement age 12 online attenders are retirement age 12 online attenders are retirement age 12 points above the total sample average. points above the total sample average. points above the total sample average. Why? Cuz they're wintering in Florida. Why? Cuz they're wintering in Florida. Why? Cuz they're wintering in Florida. Yeah, that's one of the reasons. Another Yeah, that's one of the reasons. Another Yeah, that's one of the reasons. Another reason would be lower mobility. Yeah. reason would be lower mobility. Yeah. reason would be lower mobility. Yeah. Accessibility. Another reason would be Accessibility. Another reason would be Accessibility. Another reason would be bedridden, unwell. Another reason might bedridden, unwell. Another reason might bedridden, unwell. Another reason might be, you know, just like getting ready be, you know, just like getting ready be, you know, just like getting ready and getting out to church is a lot more and getting out to church is a lot more and getting out to church is a lot more challenging at this age than it was when challenging at this age than it was when challenging at this age than it was when I was younger. And so then you're like, I was younger. And so then you're like, I was younger. And so then you're like, ah, the Eureka aha moment. Number one, ah, the Eureka aha moment. Number one, ah, the Eureka aha moment. Number one, people are not evaluating our church people are not evaluating our church people are not evaluating our church fully because they need a full service fully because they need a full service fully because they need a full service to view online. And even if they are, to view online. And even if they are, to view online. And even if they are, like what kind of foot are we putting like what kind of foot are we putting like what kind of foot are we putting forward when the reality is like to make forward when the reality is like to make forward when the reality is like to make in-person live music sound good, the in-person live music sound good, the in-person live music sound good, the burden to that is so high that burden to that is so high that burden to that is so high that you actually might make yourself look a you actually might make yourself look a you actually might make yourself look a lot worse. Like cuz here's the reality.

lot worse. Like cuz here's the reality. lot worse. Like cuz here's the reality. If I go in person to church and I hear If I go in person to church and I hear If I go in person to church and I hear your exact same worship set, it will your exact same worship set, it will your exact same worship set, it will sound 10 times better in person than it sound 10 times better in person than it sound 10 times better in person than it will online. M so if someone experiences will online. M so if someone experiences will online. M so if someone experiences it first online what are the chances it first online what are the chances it first online what are the chances that it's an inferior experience just that it's an inferior experience just that it's an inferior experience just because the standards of what we expect because the standards of what we expect because the standards of what we expect every single song is perfect pitch and every single song is perfect pitch and every single song is perfect pitch and perfectly on beat at all times. Live perfectly on beat at all times. Live perfectly on beat at all times. Live music can't compete unless you have like music can't compete unless you have like music can't compete unless you have like a professional mixer who's like making a professional mixer who's like making a professional mixer who's like making your church probably doesn't have that your church probably doesn't have that your church probably doesn't have that and you're doing it for who? You're and you're doing it for who? You're and you're doing it for who? You're doing it for the people that already are doing it for the people that already are doing it for the people that already are connected to your church who just need connected to your church who just need connected to your church who just need to watch because they can't come all the to watch because they can't come all the to watch because they can't come all the time. Yes. So, here are the key time. Yes. So, here are the key time. Yes. So, here are the key takeaways and then we'll get into takeaways and then we'll get into takeaways and then we'll get into application. All right, number one, application. All right, number one, application. All right, number one, online church is not stealing in-person online church is not stealing in-person online church is not stealing in-person attendees. I know there's the story that attendees. I know there's the story that attendees. I know there's the story that we all have of that one couple, that one we all have of that one couple, that one we all have of that one couple, that one person, or that one family, but that's person, or that one family, but that's person, or that one family, but that's kind of like the exception that proves kind of like the exception that proves kind of like the exception that proves the rule, this boogeyman of online the rule, this boogeyman of online the rule, this boogeyman of online church that is this existential threat church that is this existential threat church that is this existential threat to inerson attendance and everyone's to inerson attendance and everyone's to inerson attendance and everyone's leaving and no one's coming to church leaving and no one's coming to church leaving and no one's coming to church cuz they're just watching online. Not cuz they're just watching online. Not cuz they're just watching online. Not not a thing. If they're leaving, they're not a thing. If they're leaving, they're not a thing. If they're leaving, they're not watching online. So, you've got a not watching online. So, you've got a not watching online. So, you've got a whole another problem to deal with.

whole another problem to deal with. whole another problem to deal with. Precisely. Most people prefer in-person Precisely. Most people prefer in-person Precisely. Most people prefer in-person worship across all demographics. That's worship across all demographics. That's worship across all demographics. That's an important understanding. We want to an important understanding. We want to an important understanding. We want to be with other people. We want to go in be with other people. We want to go in be with other people. We want to go in person. Number three, online attendance person. Number three, online attendance person. Number three, online attendance is often a supplement for the highly is often a supplement for the highly is often a supplement for the highly engaged. Who is watching? The crazy engaged. Who is watching? The crazy engaged. Who is watching? The crazy churchgoers, the superurchers. And then churchgoers, the superurchers. And then churchgoers, the superurchers. And then four, for those that are watching only four, for those that are watching only four, for those that are watching only online, online, online, that demo is older, not younger. And that demo is older, not younger. And that demo is older, not younger. And assuredly it's because of reasons what assuredly it's because of reasons what assuredly it's because of reasons what like they they want to come in person. like they they want to come in person. like they they want to come in person. It's not preferable, but at least it's It's not preferable, but at least it's It's not preferable, but at least it's something. That is such a valuable data something. That is such a valuable data something. That is such a valuable data point, that last one that for the 6% for point, that last one that for the 6% for point, that last one that for the 6% for the folks who are predominantly watching the folks who are predominantly watching the folks who are predominantly watching online, who are they? And to see that online, who are they? And to see that online, who are they? And to see that they're older folks. It's so valuable as they're older folks. It's so valuable as they're older folks. It's so valuable as um a pastor or senior leader in a church um a pastor or senior leader in a church um a pastor or senior leader in a church who's making decisions about where you who's making decisions about where you who's making decisions about where you allocate resources. It gives you such allocate resources. It gives you such allocate resources. It gives you such valuable information into okay our older valuable information into okay our older valuable information into okay our older or our older generation needs to be or our older generation needs to be or our older generation needs to be served in a unique way and I I think served in a unique way and I I think served in a unique way and I I think over the course of our history of over the course of our history of over the course of our history of producing content about live streaming producing content about live streaming producing content about live streaming and certainly on on this episode today I and certainly on on this episode today I and certainly on on this episode today I I think our thesis is pretty clear that I think our thesis is pretty clear that I think our thesis is pretty clear that it's probably not through just live it's probably not through just live it's probably not through just live streaming your service but it does it streaming your service but it does it streaming your service but it does it does still remain that those folks does still remain that those folks does still remain that those folks deserve to be um ministered to in a way deserve to be um ministered to in a way deserve to be um ministered to in a way that that meets them where they are. So that that meets them where they are. So that that meets them where they are. So whether that looks like really whether that looks like really whether that looks like really prioritizing publishing a high-quality prioritizing publishing a high-quality prioritizing publishing a high-quality um re-upload of your sermon and um re-upload of your sermon and um re-upload of your sermon and redistributing that in a really redistributing that in a really redistributing that in a really effective way, maybe it's sending out an

effective way, maybe it's sending out an effective way, maybe it's sending out an email on Sunday afternoon or Monday email on Sunday afternoon or Monday email on Sunday afternoon or Monday morning targeted to those folks in your morning targeted to those folks in your morning targeted to those folks in your community who you know are stuck at community who you know are stuck at community who you know are stuck at home, they're bedridden, they're home, they're bedridden, they're home, they're bedridden, they're traveling or whatever. Um and and handd traveling or whatever. Um and and handd traveling or whatever. Um and and handd delivering that content. Also maybe it delivering that content. Also maybe it delivering that content. Also maybe it gives you insight into like for the gives you insight into like for the gives you insight into like for the pastor, pastor, pastor, what home visits do I need to make this what home visits do I need to make this what home visits do I need to make this week? Yeah. You know, you can't come to week? Yeah. You know, you can't come to week? Yeah. You know, you can't come to us. Okay, I see you, but I can come to us. Okay, I see you, but I can come to us. Okay, I see you, but I can come to you. And so that's such valuable insight you. And so that's such valuable insight you. And so that's such valuable insight from that data um to show us who is far from that data um to show us who is far from that data um to show us who is far from us and wants to be connected to us, from us and wants to be connected to us, from us and wants to be connected to us, how can we get connected with them in a how can we get connected with them in a how can we get connected with them in a way that isn't just, you know, putting a way that isn't just, you know, putting a way that isn't just, you know, putting a a subpar live stream up on on the a subpar live stream up on on the a subpar live stream up on on the internet and and checking that box and internet and and checking that box and internet and and checking that box and saying, "Okay, served." Right? Because saying, "Okay, served." Right? Because saying, "Okay, served." Right? Because my sense is if we went into an average my sense is if we went into an average my sense is if we went into an average church and we asked them, "Who do you church and we asked them, "Who do you church and we asked them, "Who do you think is like watching live streams?" think is like watching live streams?" think is like watching live streams?" Like, "Well, like people that are Like, "Well, like people that are Like, "Well, like people that are checking out our church." And yeah, like checking out our church." And yeah, like checking out our church." And yeah, like we do worry about it being a threat to we do worry about it being a threat to we do worry about it being a threat to inerson worship, but like that's that's inerson worship, but like that's that's inerson worship, but like that's that's the internet, right? Like we have to the internet, right? Like we have to the internet, right? Like we have to take our church, we have to put it take our church, we have to put it take our church, we have to put it online these days. It's like no, like online these days. It's like no, like online these days. It's like no, like everything you said was just wrong. And everything you said was just wrong. And everything you said was just wrong. And I don't say that in a glib way to put I don't say that in a glib way to put I don't say that in a glib way to put people down. I'm glad we have this data people down. I'm glad we have this data people down. I'm glad we have this data that is substantial in size and relevant that is substantial in size and relevant that is substantial in size and relevant in that it is post pandemic in America.

in that it is post pandemic in America. in that it is post pandemic in America. But like this is the sense that we've But like this is the sense that we've But like this is the sense that we've had about live streaming for a very long had about live streaming for a very long had about live streaming for a very long time, for more than a decade at this time, for more than a decade at this time, for more than a decade at this point before this transformative season point before this transformative season point before this transformative season ever took place, before it was on the ever took place, before it was on the ever took place, before it was on the horizon. We're like, digital ministry is horizon. We're like, digital ministry is horizon. We're like, digital ministry is incredibly important. We have dedicated incredibly important. We have dedicated incredibly important. We have dedicated our professional careers to it, our our professional careers to it, our our professional careers to it, our full-time vocs. We think it's important full-time vocs. We think it's important full-time vocs. We think it's important because it allows us to reach people and because it allows us to reach people and because it allows us to reach people and it's often the first touch point that it's often the first touch point that it's often the first touch point that can then connect people to in-person can then connect people to in-person can then connect people to in-person community because that's where formation community because that's where formation community because that's where formation and transformation is taking place. Not and transformation is taking place. Not and transformation is taking place. Not because it is a replacement but because because it is a replacement but because because it is a replacement but because it is the best way to make that it is the best way to make that it is the best way to make that introduction. Yeah. And co forced us to introduction. Yeah. And co forced us to introduction. Yeah. And co forced us to use it as a replacement temporarily. But use it as a replacement temporarily. But use it as a replacement temporarily. But prior to co and postco we see its prior to co and postco we see its prior to co and postco we see its weaknesses. Yes. So, let's talk about weaknesses. Yes. So, let's talk about weaknesses. Yes. So, let's talk about Shawn and Bridgetown. Bridgetown Shawn and Bridgetown. Bridgetown Shawn and Bridgetown. Bridgetown approaches this and they go, "You know approaches this and they go, "You know approaches this and they go, "You know what? Like, this is a terrible what? Like, this is a terrible what? Like, this is a terrible replication of what we do in person." replication of what we do in person." replication of what we do in person." Yes, we're going to put the sermon up Yes, we're going to put the sermon up Yes, we're going to put the sermon up because you're just sitting there because you're just sitting there because you're just sitting there listening. You can sit there and listen listening. You can sit there and listen listening. You can sit there and listen and watch on YouTube. You can sit there and watch on YouTube. You can sit there and watch on YouTube. You can sit there and listen with AirPods in on your walk and listen with AirPods in on your walk and listen with AirPods in on your walk making dinner, whatever it might be. But making dinner, whatever it might be. But making dinner, whatever it might be. But like, we're not going to put our like, we're not going to put our like, we're not going to put our worship. We're not going to put our worship. We're not going to put our worship. We're not going to put our announcements. Just like you want that announcements. Just like you want that announcements. Just like you want that like visit us in person. Yeah. And and like visit us in person. Yeah. And and like visit us in person. Yeah. And and that's the theological bent you that's the theological bent you that's the theological bent you mentioned earlier is like that's that's mentioned earlier is like that's that's mentioned earlier is like that's that's the approach they're bringing to the the approach they're bringing to the the approach they're bringing to the table which resonates with me and and table which resonates with me and and table which resonates with me and and and surely resonates with other folks.

and surely resonates with other folks. and surely resonates with other folks. But Sean is bringing a a practical bent But Sean is bringing a a practical bent But Sean is bringing a a practical bent to it as well which is just as relevant. to it as well which is just as relevant. to it as well which is just as relevant. Well, it's practical but I think the the Well, it's practical but I think the the Well, it's practical but I think the the Bridgetown one is practical as well. Bridgetown one is practical as well. Bridgetown one is practical as well. They're like this is not going to meet They're like this is not going to meet They're like this is not going to meet any of your needs. And Sean is saying any of your needs. And Sean is saying any of your needs. And Sean is saying like just honest. This is not well done like just honest. This is not well done like just honest. This is not well done which means it will meet nobody's needs. which means it will meet nobody's needs. which means it will meet nobody's needs. Yes, I'm coming at it from more of a Yes, I'm coming at it from more of a Yes, I'm coming at it from more of a practical standpoint and surely there's practical standpoint and surely there's practical standpoint and surely there's a theological undertone but like your a theological undertone but like your a theological undertone but like your needs are not being met with this. We needs are not being met with this. We needs are not being met with this. We know that is demonstrable with data. know that is demonstrable with data. know that is demonstrable with data. Sean sensed it from a quality Sean sensed it from a quality Sean sensed it from a quality standpoint. Bridgetown sensed it from a standpoint. Bridgetown sensed it from a standpoint. Bridgetown sensed it from a theological standpoint. Needs are not theological standpoint. Needs are not theological standpoint. Needs are not being met this way. So what are the being met this way. So what are the being met this way. So what are the application points then? Number one, application points then? Number one, application points then? Number one, maybe not surprising. I remain an maybe not surprising. I remain an maybe not surprising. I remain an advocate for not live streaming your advocate for not live streaming your advocate for not live streaming your services. Does that mean you have to services. Does that mean you have to services. Does that mean you have to stop doing it right now? It doesn't mean stop doing it right now? It doesn't mean stop doing it right now? It doesn't mean that. Just this would be like if I that. Just this would be like if I that. Just this would be like if I started a church today, we would not started a church today, we would not started a church today, we would not live stream our services. We would do live stream our services. We would do live stream our services. We would do what I have always advocated for, which what I have always advocated for, which what I have always advocated for, which is record our sermons, publish them via is record our sermons, publish them via is record our sermons, publish them via podcast, publish them on YouTube. And podcast, publish them on YouTube. And podcast, publish them on YouTube. And when we did publish them on YouTube, I when we did publish them on YouTube, I when we did publish them on YouTube, I would not title them because Pastor Alex would not title them because Pastor Alex would not title them because Pastor Alex is the pastor of this church. Pastor is the pastor of this church. Pastor is the pastor of this church. Pastor Alex, July 17th, 2025, gravedigger, part Alex, July 17th, 2025, gravedigger, part Alex, July 17th, 2025, gravedigger, part one. No, we would title them where the one. No, we would title them where the one. No, we would title them where the the the question my son asked me from the the question my son asked me from the the question my son asked me from the back seat the other day. Uh, Dad, the back seat the other day. Uh, Dad, the back seat the other day. Uh, Dad, when are you going to die? That's a when are you going to die? That's a when are you going to die? That's a great question. You know, so for the great question. You know, so for the great question. You know, so for the gravedigger series, it's like when are gravedigger series, it's like when are gravedigger series, it's like when are you going to die? And that's uh I mean you going to die? And that's uh I mean you going to die? And that's uh I mean it could probably be workshopped a it could probably be workshopped a it could probably be workshopped a little better, but that's that's a little better, but that's that's a little better, but that's that's a movement towards titling the sermon in a movement towards titling the sermon in a movement towards titling the sermon in a way that is indexed for search on way that is indexed for search on way that is indexed for search on YouTube, which is we know the world's YouTube, which is we know the world's YouTube, which is we know the world's second largest search engine. Yeah,

second largest search engine. Yeah, second largest search engine. Yeah, absolutely. I I think like dad, what am absolutely. I I think like dad, what am absolutely. I I think like dad, what am I going to die? And in brackets, my son I going to die? And in brackets, my son I going to die? And in brackets, my son asked me like that. Something like that asked me like that. Something like that asked me like that. Something like that is like a perfect heading that would is like a perfect heading that would is like a perfect heading that would then still the same piece of content. then still the same piece of content. then still the same piece of content. It's the identical piece of content. So It's the identical piece of content. So It's the identical piece of content. So we would do a little bit of extra work we would do a little bit of extra work we would do a little bit of extra work there. We would repurpose the creative there. We would repurpose the creative there. We would repurpose the creative resources that would go into all of the resources that would go into all of the resources that would go into all of the budget because if we want to make this budget because if we want to make this budget because if we want to make this look good, like we got to spend a lot on look good, like we got to spend a lot on look good, like we got to spend a lot on it and the creative volunteers that have it and the creative volunteers that have it and the creative volunteers that have to be like on the cameras operating to be like on the cameras operating to be like on the cameras operating every single week, like repurposing every single week, like repurposing every single week, like repurposing everything. Like that's a lot. And we everything. Like that's a lot. And we everything. Like that's a lot. And we would still have the sermon recorded. If would still have the sermon recorded. If would still have the sermon recorded. If all we had was a $100 DJI mic, that'd be all we had was a $100 DJI mic, that'd be all we had was a $100 DJI mic, that'd be fine. We could repurpose that 4K video fine. We could repurpose that 4K video fine. We could repurpose that 4K video into social clips. We'd still have that into social clips. We'd still have that into social clips. We'd still have that luxury. And then the second thing is luxury. And then the second thing is luxury. And then the second thing is if you're going to keep doing services if you're going to keep doing services if you're going to keep doing services and I think if you've probably like and I think if you've probably like and I think if you've probably like built the infrastructure over co you're built the infrastructure over co you're built the infrastructure over co you're like okay I'm not going to listen to a like okay I'm not going to listen to a like okay I'm not going to listen to a podcast and then stop doing it. We podcast and then stop doing it. We podcast and then stop doing it. We totally get that. Consider the first totally get that. Consider the first totally get that. Consider the first impression your live stream may make on impression your live stream may make on impression your live stream may make on people if it's not of high quality. people if it's not of high quality. people if it's not of high quality. Yeah, because it's unlikely that people Yeah, because it's unlikely that people Yeah, because it's unlikely that people are going to visit your website, visit are going to visit your website, visit are going to visit your website, visit your YouTube channel, and see that you your YouTube channel, and see that you your YouTube channel, and see that you have a full service and in another have a full service and in another have a full service and in another universe see you have just a sermon and universe see you have just a sermon and universe see you have just a sermon and that be the reason they're like, I'm not that be the reason they're like, I'm not that be the reason they're like, I'm not coming to this church. That seems highly coming to this church. That seems highly coming to this church. That seems highly unlikely. What does not seem highly unlikely. What does not seem highly unlikely. What does not seem highly unlikely is someone lands on a poorly unlikely is someone lands on a poorly unlikely is someone lands on a poorly done service done service done service via live stream and they see like the via live stream and they see like the via live stream and they see like the the music at the beginning or the the music at the beginning or the the music at the beginning or the announcements at the beginning or the announcements at the beginning or the announcements at the beginning or the terrible echoey quality like Sean said terrible echoey quality like Sean said terrible echoey quality like Sean said like you just don't even have like an on like you just don't even have like an on like you just don't even have like an on camera lapel mic or you're not pulling camera lapel mic or you're not pulling camera lapel mic or you're not pulling audio from the board into the stream and audio from the board into the stream and audio from the board into the stream and they go wow okay that is a turnoff where

they go wow okay that is a turnoff where they go wow okay that is a turnoff where they might feel entirely different if they might feel entirely different if they might feel entirely different if the exact same experience was the exact same experience was the exact same experience was experienced with them in the eighth row. experienced with them in the eighth row. experienced with them in the eighth row. Mhm. So, what is the upside here? What Mhm. So, what is the upside here? What Mhm. So, what is the upside here? What is the downside? Meaningful. And then is the downside? Meaningful. And then is the downside? Meaningful. And then for people that want to experience the for people that want to experience the for people that want to experience the live stream who are in that 6% category, live stream who are in that 6% category, live stream who are in that 6% category, I would just have a private link that I would just have a private link that I would just have a private link that they have access to. Like you can set up they have access to. Like you can set up they have access to. Like you can set up the iPhone and still run it, right? You the iPhone and still run it, right? You the iPhone and still run it, right? You can keep this like, you know, the whole can keep this like, you know, the whole can keep this like, you know, the whole thing going. You don't need to impress thing going. You don't need to impress thing going. You don't need to impress them with your worship set or what it them with your worship set or what it them with your worship set or what it sounds like. Yeah. So, you can make this sounds like. Yeah. So, you can make this sounds like. Yeah. So, you can make this change right now and be like, "Okay, change right now and be like, "Okay, change right now and be like, "Okay, like we think there's a potential like we think there's a potential like we think there's a potential downside here. We want to keep doing downside here. We want to keep doing downside here. We want to keep doing podcasts. We want to keep doing YouTube podcasts. We want to keep doing YouTube podcasts. We want to keep doing YouTube with the full length sermons, but you with the full length sermons, but you with the full length sermons, but you know what? If we're being honest, the know what? If we're being honest, the know what? If we're being honest, the announcements at the beginning, the announcements at the beginning, the announcements at the beginning, the music at the beginning, the call to music at the beginning, the call to music at the beginning, the call to worship or the call to the altar, the worship or the call to the altar, the worship or the call to the altar, the prayer at the end, like none of that prayer at the end, like none of that prayer at the end, like none of that really translates. It's not meeting really translates. It's not meeting really translates. It's not meeting anyone's needs online except for this anyone's needs online except for this anyone's needs online except for this small group. Okay, we're going to keep small group. Okay, we're going to keep small group. Okay, we're going to keep doing it. We have the infrastructure. We doing it. We have the infrastructure. We doing it. We have the infrastructure. We have a private link. If you want it, you have a private link. If you want it, you have a private link. If you want it, you can get it. Just ask us at any time and, can get it. Just ask us at any time and, can get it. Just ask us at any time and, you know, we'll make it available. We're you know, we'll make it available. We're you know, we'll make it available. We're not going to hide it, but like we're not not going to hide it, but like we're not not going to hide it, but like we're not going to like publish it and put it going to like publish it and put it going to like publish it and put it front and center.

front and center. front and center. Final thoughts? Yeah, I think that's a Final thoughts? Yeah, I think that's a Final thoughts? Yeah, I think that's a good encouragement for folks like you good encouragement for folks like you good encouragement for folks like you said who are their churches just said who are their churches just said who are their churches just integrated into live streaming whether integrated into live streaming whether integrated into live streaming whether they began in COVID or or pre-COVID but they began in COVID or or pre-COVID but they began in COVID or or pre-COVID but like they've got live streaming set up. like they've got live streaming set up. like they've got live streaming set up. There are folks who belong you know Jim There are folks who belong you know Jim There are folks who belong you know Jim and Jill are wintering in Florida and and Jill are wintering in Florida and and Jill are wintering in Florida and they would be lost without the live they would be lost without the live they would be lost without the live streams like okay I hear you Brady but streams like okay I hear you Brady but streams like okay I hear you Brady but respectfully I'm not going to shut down respectfully I'm not going to shut down respectfully I'm not going to shut down our stream this week. So, I think that's our stream this week. So, I think that's our stream this week. So, I think that's a good encouragement to like, okay, a good encouragement to like, okay, a good encouragement to like, okay, there's a way to continue streaming, there's a way to continue streaming, there's a way to continue streaming, even your streaming in the state that it even your streaming in the state that it even your streaming in the state that it is, even if it's not great, but do it in is, even if it's not great, but do it in is, even if it's not great, but do it in a way that protects the first impression a way that protects the first impression a way that protects the first impression that you are going to make on first-time that you are going to make on first-time that you are going to make on first-time visitors when they visit your church visitors when they visit your church visitors when they visit your church online. Because we know this, your online. Because we know this, your online. Because we know this, your online presence, whether it's your online presence, whether it's your online presence, whether it's your church website or your YouTube page, church website or your YouTube page, church website or your YouTube page, your Instagram account, these are your Instagram account, these are your Instagram account, these are virtual front doors. Folks are going to virtual front doors. Folks are going to virtual front doors. Folks are going to interact with your church in person interact with your church in person interact with your church in person almost every time before they interact almost every time before they interact almost every time before they interact with you online. You don't just go to a with you online. You don't just go to a with you online. You don't just go to a new restaurant in a new city before new restaurant in a new city before new restaurant in a new city before checking out anything on online. Like checking out anything on online. Like checking out anything on online. Like you check them out online and and so you check them out online and and so you check them out online and and so folks are doing the they're searching folks are doing the they're searching folks are doing the they're searching for churches in the same way. And so for churches in the same way. And so for churches in the same way. And so your online presence is your virtual your online presence is your virtual your online presence is your virtual front door. They're going to run into front door. They're going to run into front door. They're going to run into that live stream before they run before that live stream before they run before that live stream before they run before they experience it in person. And so um they experience it in person. And so um they experience it in person. And so um if it is public and and you know hyper if it is public and and you know hyper if it is public and and you know hyper available and so if you want to keep available and so if you want to keep available and so if you want to keep streaming just to maybe tuck it away and streaming just to maybe tuck it away and streaming just to maybe tuck it away and put it in a place that's a little bit put it in a place that's a little bit put it in a place that's a little bit less accessible, I think that's great less accessible, I think that's great less accessible, I think that's great encouragement for folks. Um, and then encouragement for folks. Um, and then encouragement for folks. Um, and then for folks who, you know, see all the for folks who, you know, see all the for folks who, you know, see all the videos about all the gear and and they videos about all the gear and and they videos about all the gear and and they they believe the story that, well, every they believe the story that, well, every they believe the story that, well, every other church is live streaming, so so other church is live streaming, so so other church is live streaming, so so I've got to as well. Well, I hope maybe I've got to as well. Well, I hope maybe I've got to as well. Well, I hope maybe this this thesis, which has been our this this thesis, which has been our this this thesis, which has been our thesis that for as long as we've talked thesis that for as long as we've talked thesis that for as long as we've talked about live streaming, but maybe you're

about live streaming, but maybe you're about live streaming, but maybe you're hearing it for the first time today, I hearing it for the first time today, I hearing it for the first time today, I hope this gives you the courage to maybe hope this gives you the courage to maybe hope this gives you the courage to maybe do something that's a little bit more do something that's a little bit more do something that's a little bit more catered to who you're trying to serve, catered to who you're trying to serve, catered to who you're trying to serve, more congruent with your mission, that more congruent with your mission, that more congruent with your mission, that is going to be more effective at uh a is going to be more effective at uh a is going to be more effective at uh a method that is more effective at method that is more effective at method that is more effective at fulfilling your mission at your church fulfilling your mission at your church fulfilling your mission at your church at whatever corner of the world that you at whatever corner of the world that you at whatever corner of the world that you belong to. Yeah, agreed. We will be off belong to. Yeah, agreed. We will be off belong to. Yeah, agreed. We will be off next week for the celebration of Canada next week for the celebration of Canada next week for the celebration of Canada Day and Independence Day. I'll be away Day and Independence Day. I'll be away Day and Independence Day. I'll be away next weekend. There you go. So, uh, we next weekend. There you go. So, uh, we next weekend. There you go. So, uh, we we're off next week. We'll be back the we're off next week. We'll be back the we're off next week. We'll be back the Wednesday after that. Thank you for your Wednesday after that. Thank you for your Wednesday after that. Thank you for your time, attention, and trust. We'll talk time, attention, and trust. We'll talk time, attention, and trust. We'll talk to you real soon. I don't really think to you real soon. I don't really think to you real soon. I don't really think of you as an anxious presence ever. I of you as an anxious presence ever. I of you as an anxious presence ever. I guess would you say you feel those guess would you say you feel those guess would you say you feel those things? No. Yeah. Okay, good. Not good. things? No. Yeah. Okay, good. Not good. things? No. Yeah. Okay, good. Not good. Like, well, good, but also like Yeah. Like, well, good, but also like Yeah. Like, well, good, but also like Yeah. Just about F1 at night time, right? Just about F1 at night time, right? Just about F1 at night time, right? That's totally Yeah. It's normal sport That's totally Yeah. It's normal sport That's totally Yeah. It's normal sport anxiety, especially for us Toronto fans.