Richard Clark talks about Christ and Pop Culture.

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started with this week's on Seminary podcast all this week's on Seminary podcast all this week's on Seminary podcast all right well welcome to the unseminary right well welcome to the unseminary right well welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich Birch super podcast my name is Rich Birch super podcast my name is Rich Birch super excited that you've decided to spend excited that you've decided to spend excited that you've decided to spend some time with us today hopefully your some time with us today hopefully your some time with us today hopefully your week's going well as you get ready for week's going well as you get ready for week's going well as you get ready for the weekend the weekend the weekend um you know it's that time of year when um you know it's that time of year when um you know it's that time of year when uh the Walking Dead comes back out and uh the Walking Dead comes back out and uh the Walking Dead comes back out and so today we've got an interesting so today we've got an interesting so today we've got an interesting interview uh super excited people are interview uh super excited people are interview uh super excited people are thinking what are we talking about uh thinking what are we talking about uh thinking what are we talking about uh super excited to have Richard Clark uh super excited to have Richard Clark uh super excited to have Richard Clark uh on the phone today uh Richard welcome to on the phone today uh Richard welcome to on the phone today uh Richard welcome to the show so glad you're here today thank the show so glad you're here today thank the show so glad you're here today thank you glad to be on Richard is the you glad to be on Richard is the you glad to be on Richard is the editor-in-chief of a website you need to editor-in-chief of a website you need to editor-in-chief of a website you need to check out check out check out christenpopculture.com it's a great site christenpopculture.com it's a great site christenpopculture.com it's a great site um you know been poking around in there um you know been poking around in there um you know been poking around in there lots of really you know I think well lots of really you know I think well lots of really you know I think well thought out well produced uh thinking thought out well produced uh thinking thought out well produced uh thinking really around really around really around um you know how does the church and um you know how does the church and um you know how does the church and Ministries intersect with uh pop culture Ministries intersect with uh pop culture Ministries intersect with uh pop culture and Richard is the Grand Puba over there and Richard is the Grand Puba over there and Richard is the Grand Puba over there and so we're we're privileged honored to and so we're we're privileged honored to and so we're we're privileged honored to have you uh on the phone today uh or on have you uh on the phone today uh or on have you uh on the phone today uh or on the show today Richard why don't you the show today Richard why don't you the show today Richard why don't you tell us a little bit about you and kind tell us a little bit about you and kind tell us a little bit about you and kind of how did you get so excited and of how did you get so excited and of how did you get so excited and energized about talking about pop energized about talking about pop energized about talking about pop culture yeah I mean basically this all culture yeah I mean basically this all culture yeah I mean basically this all sort of started back in uh I'd say eight sort of started back in uh I'd say eight sort of started back in uh I'd say eight years ago a friend of mine and I were years ago a friend of mine and I were years ago a friend of mine and I were both taking some arts classes at both taking some arts classes at both taking some arts classes at Seminary and this was sort of out of the Seminary and this was sort of out of the Seminary and this was sort of out of the ordinary I think uh arts classes were

ordinary I think uh arts classes were ordinary I think uh arts classes were like electives basically and you could like electives basically and you could like electives basically and you could take them if you want and a lot of take them if you want and a lot of take them if you want and a lot of people within the arts classes would people within the arts classes would people within the arts classes would just debate about how much this stuff just debate about how much this stuff just debate about how much this stuff even mattered that sort of thing but we even mattered that sort of thing but we even mattered that sort of thing but we started to think about we were taking started to think about we were taking started to think about we were taking like a film class and we were taking like a film class and we were taking like a film class and we were taking some other things some Modern Art uh some other things some Modern Art uh some other things some Modern Art uh sort of visual arts classes sort of visual arts classes sort of visual arts classes um and we just started talking about how um and we just started talking about how um and we just started talking about how no one was really being thoughtful about no one was really being thoughtful about no one was really being thoughtful about the more uh the the art that people the more uh the the art that people the more uh the the art that people actually consume if that makes sense so actually consume if that makes sense so actually consume if that makes sense so yeah you know we could talk forever yeah you know we could talk forever yeah you know we could talk forever about seeing God in in a painting or about seeing God in in a painting or about seeing God in in a painting or even seeing God in like an art film but even seeing God in like an art film but even seeing God in like an art film but the fact is we look all around and we the fact is we look all around and we the fact is we look all around and we see that people are watching Indiana see that people are watching Indiana see that people are watching Indiana Jones and they're watching uh you know Jones and they're watching uh you know Jones and they're watching uh you know James Bond Bond and they're watching uh James Bond Bond and they're watching uh James Bond Bond and they're watching uh Jurassic Park and they're not being Jurassic Park and they're not being Jurassic Park and they're not being thoughtful about those things thoughtful about those things thoughtful about those things um or they weren't at the time I would um or they weren't at the time I would um or they weren't at the time I would say and so we started a podcast to sort say and so we started a podcast to sort say and so we started a podcast to sort of have that conversation and sort of of have that conversation and sort of of have that conversation and sort of model that conversation which turned model that conversation which turned model that conversation which turned into a website and so that's what sort into a website and so that's what sort into a website and so that's what sort of got us interested I've always been of got us interested I've always been of got us interested I've always been someone who's interested in writing and someone who's interested in writing and someone who's interested in writing and also interested in uh in artistic things also interested in uh in artistic things also interested in uh in artistic things I guess of kind of a creative I guess of kind of a creative I guess of kind of a creative but uh mine so but uh mine so but uh mine so um yeah that's kind of where it started um yeah that's kind of where it started um yeah that's kind of where it started very cool now I would imagine there's uh very cool now I would imagine there's uh very cool now I would imagine there's uh you know churches are are either just you know churches are are either just you know churches are are either just straight out kind of rejecting this you straight out kind of rejecting this you straight out kind of rejecting this you know kind of Pop Culture know kind of Pop Culture know kind of Pop Culture um or they're just kind of letting it um or they're just kind of letting it um or they're just kind of letting it wash over them you know what what's the wash over them you know what what's the wash over them you know what what's the problem with either of those extreme

problem with either of those extreme problem with either of those extreme positions why what's what's the problem positions why what's what's the problem positions why what's what's the problem with that yeah yeah that's uh that's two with that yeah yeah that's uh that's two with that yeah yeah that's uh that's two that's a really good way of articulating that's a really good way of articulating that's a really good way of articulating the problem because there really are the problem because there really are the problem because there really are just two huge extremes and what we're just two huge extremes and what we're just two huge extremes and what we're trying to do is say like no actually trying to do is say like no actually trying to do is say like no actually there is something that's in the middle there is something that's in the middle there is something that's in the middle that's right and so the two extremes are that's right and so the two extremes are that's right and so the two extremes are something that was a lot more common something that was a lot more common something that was a lot more common back in the day which is even eight back in the day which is even eight back in the day which is even eight years ago is that churches would say we years ago is that churches would say we years ago is that churches would say we don't associate with this we don't do it don't associate with this we don't do it don't associate with this we don't do it we don't encourage you to do it and we we don't encourage you to do it and we we don't encourage you to do it and we we in fact would just actively we in fact would just actively we in fact would just actively discourage you to like watch television discourage you to like watch television discourage you to like watch television or go see movies and uh we certainly or go see movies and uh we certainly or go see movies and uh we certainly wouldn't want to engage with it in any wouldn't want to engage with it in any wouldn't want to engage with it in any active way okay active way okay active way okay um The Other Extreme is uh you know this um The Other Extreme is uh you know this um The Other Extreme is uh you know this perspective that perspective that perspective that um these things are all from God and as um these things are all from God and as um these things are all from God and as such I mean culture is from God and as such I mean culture is from God and as such I mean culture is from God and as such it's all sort of a great influence such it's all sort of a great influence such it's all sort of a great influence and we should take what the world is and we should take what the world is and we should take what the world is saying and listen and hear it out and saying and listen and hear it out and saying and listen and hear it out and then just apply it to our Christianity then just apply it to our Christianity then just apply it to our Christianity which I think is also another really which I think is also another really which I think is also another really dangerous bad approach dangerous bad approach dangerous bad approach so now what is what is kind of a good so now what is what is kind of a good so now what is what is kind of a good engagement look like for a church or for engagement look like for a church or for engagement look like for a church or for Christ followers you know how how what Christ followers you know how how what Christ followers you know how how what would kind of a healthy engagement with would kind of a healthy engagement with would kind of a healthy engagement with pop culture look like yeah so the pop culture look like yeah so the pop culture look like yeah so the simplest thing to do is to talk about on simplest thing to do is to talk about on simplest thing to do is to talk about on the individual level I think uh the best the individual level I think uh the best the individual level I think uh the best way to do these things is just to be way to do these things is just to be way to do these things is just to be thoughtful that's the first thing I tell thoughtful that's the first thing I tell thoughtful that's the first thing I tell people it's just actively think about

people it's just actively think about people it's just actively think about the things that you're engaging with and the things that you're engaging with and the things that you're engaging with and that sort of that sort of for me that sort of that sort of for me that sort of that sort of for me summarizes the whole of how Christians summarizes the whole of how Christians summarizes the whole of how Christians should be interacting with culture but should be interacting with culture but should be interacting with culture but what comes out of that is a lot so if what comes out of that is a lot so if what comes out of that is a lot so if you are watching you are watching you are watching um a movie with nudity sometimes it um a movie with nudity sometimes it um a movie with nudity sometimes it might mean being thoughtful and might mean being thoughtful and might mean being thoughtful and realizing how that affects you as a as a realizing how that affects you as a as a realizing how that affects you as a as a Believer right sometimes you might be Believer right sometimes you might be Believer right sometimes you might be watching something that you're being watching something that you're being watching something that you're being thoughtful about you realize it's bad thoughtful about you realize it's bad thoughtful about you realize it's bad but the act of realizing it is bad is but the act of realizing it is bad is but the act of realizing it is bad is actually improving you as a human being actually improving you as a human being actually improving you as a human being so that's why I would never say like any so that's why I would never say like any so that's why I would never say like any movie is bad for a person to watch movie is bad for a person to watch movie is bad for a person to watch necessarily so uh I think uh to to I necessarily so uh I think uh to to I necessarily so uh I think uh to to I think it is important to handle this on think it is important to handle this on think it is important to handle this on an individual level and to allow for an individual level and to allow for an individual level and to allow for that to happen to kind of trust the holy that to happen to kind of trust the holy that to happen to kind of trust the holy spirit in that spirit in that spirit in that um and then to to go from there and just um and then to to go from there and just um and then to to go from there and just kind of equip one another to be kind of equip one another to be kind of equip one another to be thoughtful and actively engage these thoughtful and actively engage these thoughtful and actively engage these things as we're consuming them and as things as we're consuming them and as things as we're consuming them and as we're being as we're interacting with we're being as we're interacting with we're being as we're interacting with them so then you know your your blog them so then you know your your blog them so then you know your your blog um or really website you know Christ and um or really website you know Christ and um or really website you know Christ and popculture.com you know what are you popculture.com you know what are you popculture.com you know what are you trying to do there you're trying to kind trying to do there you're trying to kind trying to do there you're trying to kind of you know host a place to have a of you know host a place to have a of you know host a place to have a conversation about these how are you conversation about these how are you conversation about these how are you hoping to kind of uh you know Steer the hoping to kind of uh you know Steer the hoping to kind of uh you know Steer the conversation through your your website conversation through your your website conversation through your your website so what we're doing is trying to kind of so what we're doing is trying to kind of so what we're doing is trying to kind of provide an antidote to those two provide an antidote to those two provide an antidote to those two extremes we were talking about and what extremes we were talking about and what extremes we were talking about and what has resulted from those two extremes I

has resulted from those two extremes I has resulted from those two extremes I think a lot of uh that first extreme think a lot of uh that first extreme think a lot of uh that first extreme what that has resulted in is a Christian what that has resulted in is a Christian what that has resulted in is a Christian culture that does not know what it's culture that does not know what it's culture that does not know what it's talking about when it comes to these talking about when it comes to these talking about when it comes to these things okay so even I mean there are a things okay so even I mean there are a things okay so even I mean there are a lot of people out there who want to lot of people out there who want to lot of people out there who want to write about culture try to write about write about culture try to write about write about culture try to write about culture we've got pastors we got culture we've got pastors we got culture we've got pastors we got celebrity pastors now that are great celebrity pastors now that are great celebrity pastors now that are great guys they're writing about cultural guys they're writing about cultural guys they're writing about cultural things and movies and stuff sometimes things and movies and stuff sometimes things and movies and stuff sometimes and when they do is kind of cringe and when they do is kind of cringe and when they do is kind of cringe inducing because they're not totally inducing because they're not totally inducing because they're not totally sure what they are talking about and sure what they are talking about and sure what they are talking about and that's fun but what we need is we need that's fun but what we need is we need that's fun but what we need is we need people who are out there like kind of people who are out there like kind of people who are out there like kind of lending their expertise about the form lending their expertise about the form lending their expertise about the form about the motivations of the people about the motivations of the people about the motivations of the people behind these things behind these things behind these things um and just about sort of what art can um and just about sort of what art can um and just about sort of what art can and can't do and can't do and can't do um and what popular culture in general um and what popular culture in general um and what popular culture in general can and can't do we're trying to to can and can't do we're trying to to can and can't do we're trying to to provide that in particular so when a provide that in particular so when a provide that in particular so when a person comes to our website they're not person comes to our website they're not person comes to our website they're not going to find just a random personal going to find just a random personal going to find just a random personal screen against nudity in movies they're screen against nudity in movies they're screen against nudity in movies they're going to find something a little more going to find something a little more going to find something a little more challenging than that it's going to be challenging than that it's going to be challenging than that it's going to be you know sort of a deeper analysis you know sort of a deeper analysis you know sort of a deeper analysis that's written for a popular audience that's written for a popular audience that's written for a popular audience and that's a key for me like this is and that's a key for me like this is and that's a key for me like this is definitely something that we hope helps definitely something that we hope helps definitely something that we hope helps the church in that way that people the church in that way that people the church in that way that people aren't scared of it because it's too aren't scared of it because it's too aren't scared of it because it's too heady or intellectual heady or intellectual heady or intellectual um but yeah on the other hand I think we um but yeah on the other hand I think we um but yeah on the other hand I think we also want to challenge our audience so also want to challenge our audience so also want to challenge our audience so what we're doing is we're very actively what we're doing is we're very actively what we're doing is we're very actively writing pieces that we think the

writing pieces that we think the writing pieces that we think the Evangelical Church needs to hear so Evangelical Church needs to hear so Evangelical Church needs to hear so we're uh we come off sometimes overly we're uh we come off sometimes overly we're uh we come off sometimes overly liberal because a lot of people might liberal because a lot of people might liberal because a lot of people might not agree with the stance that we take not agree with the stance that we take not agree with the stance that we take but really we we very deeply believe in but really we we very deeply believe in but really we we very deeply believe in the inerrancy of scripture and we the inerrancy of scripture and we the inerrancy of scripture and we believe we take it all kind of uh as believe we take it all kind of uh as believe we take it all kind of uh as literally as it means to be taken and we literally as it means to be taken and we literally as it means to be taken and we we apply those truth to our lives and we apply those truth to our lives and we apply those truth to our lives and sort of put it out there and apply it to sort of put it out there and apply it to sort of put it out there and apply it to these things in ways that we think are a these things in ways that we think are a these things in ways that we think are a little hopefully a little more little hopefully a little more little hopefully a little more thoughtful and helpful nice now has thoughtful and helpful nice now has thoughtful and helpful nice now has there been a particular article on the there been a particular article on the there been a particular article on the the site that seems to have resonated or the site that seems to have resonated or the site that seems to have resonated or maybe stirred up a bit of conversation maybe stirred up a bit of conversation maybe stirred up a bit of conversation they're like okay that's interesting they're like okay that's interesting they're like okay that's interesting um you know is there one that sticks out um you know is there one that sticks out um you know is there one that sticks out yeah that's interesting I think yeah that's interesting I think yeah that's interesting I think um I'm trying to remember now uh um I'm trying to remember now uh um I'm trying to remember now uh let me see let me see let me see I'm just thinking I'm thinking I'm I'm just thinking I'm thinking I'm I'm just thinking I'm thinking I'm thinking I'm sorry I we have these regularly so I'm sorry I we have these regularly so we have we we there's waxes and waxes we have we we there's waxes and waxes we have we we there's waxes and waxes and wanes and we certainly have uh like and wanes and we certainly have uh like and wanes and we certainly have uh like one of the more recent ones we published one of the more recent ones we published one of the more recent ones we published was called uh when I realized that the was called uh when I realized that the was called uh when I realized that the Bible doesn't can't cure everything okay Bible doesn't can't cure everything okay Bible doesn't can't cure everything okay and it was written by Brad Williams and and it was written by Brad Williams and and it was written by Brad Williams and it was basically a piece about uh it was basically a piece about uh it was basically a piece about uh depression it came kind of uh we waited depression it came kind of uh we waited depression it came kind of uh we waited a while after the Robin Williams thing a while after the Robin Williams thing a while after the Robin Williams thing happened right to publish it but it was happened right to publish it but it was happened right to publish it but it was kind of a response to the way the kind of a response to the way the kind of a response to the way the Evangelical Church in some Corners Evangelical Church in some Corners Evangelical Church in some Corners reacted to that there was a feeling that reacted to that there was a feeling that reacted to that there was a feeling that uh they didn't understand depression it

uh they didn't understand depression it uh they didn't understand depression it was seen as a kind of choice uh that you was seen as a kind of choice uh that you was seen as a kind of choice uh that you can make or not make and uh so this this can make or not make and uh so this this can make or not make and uh so this this was an attempt to kind of just say a was an attempt to kind of just say a was an attempt to kind of just say a really simple message which is that really simple message which is that really simple message which is that sometimes depression can uh be sometimes depression can uh be sometimes depression can uh be sometimes depression can can be harder sometimes depression can can be harder sometimes depression can can be harder than just like willing it away right and than just like willing it away right and than just like willing it away right and sometimes you need a medical solution sometimes you need a medical solution sometimes you need a medical solution for that and just allowing for that for that and just allowing for that for that and just allowing for that possibility and a lot of the articles possibility and a lot of the articles possibility and a lot of the articles that sort of uh dredge up uh controversy that sort of uh dredge up uh controversy that sort of uh dredge up uh controversy come from that allowing like they're come from that allowing like they're come from that allowing like they're just they're allowing for the just they're allowing for the just they're allowing for the possibility of something being possibility of something being possibility of something being okay you know what I mean yeah okay you know what I mean yeah okay you know what I mean yeah um so yeah cool now a lot of people that um so yeah cool now a lot of people that um so yeah cool now a lot of people that listen in are church leaders they're you listen in are church leaders they're you listen in are church leaders they're you know executive pastors senior pastors know executive pastors senior pastors know executive pastors senior pastors maybe people involved in programming maybe people involved in programming maybe people involved in programming that sort of thing what are some you that sort of thing what are some you that sort of thing what are some you know what would you say to those leaders know what would you say to those leaders know what would you say to those leaders about engaging with pop culture about engaging with pop culture about engaging with pop culture um you know how should they do it is um you know how should they do it is um you know how should they do it is there are there examples of churches out there are there examples of churches out there are there examples of churches out there you think are doing a particularly there you think are doing a particularly there you think are doing a particularly good job good job good job um you know in kind of using pop culture um you know in kind of using pop culture um you know in kind of using pop culture leveraging it for their you know for leveraging it for their you know for leveraging it for their you know for their Ministries or yeah how how should their Ministries or yeah how how should their Ministries or yeah how how should how should they think about it and are how should they think about it and are how should they think about it and are there any you know kind of particular there any you know kind of particular there any you know kind of particular actions they could take so I I don't actions they could take so I I don't actions they could take so I I don't know if I'm going to give you the answer know if I'm going to give you the answer know if I'm going to give you the answer you're looking for because my my first you're looking for because my my first you're looking for because my my first answer is gonna be what not to do yeah answer is gonna be what not to do yeah answer is gonna be what not to do yeah maybe what what I often think is kind of maybe what what I often think is kind of maybe what what I often think is kind of overdone is this programmatic response overdone is this programmatic response overdone is this programmatic response so uh we've got to have a thing where so uh we've got to have a thing where so uh we've got to have a thing where everyone comes and watches a movie everyone comes and watches a movie everyone comes and watches a movie together and then we talk about it together and then we talk about it together and then we talk about it afterwards that can be helpful but I afterwards that can be helpful but I afterwards that can be helpful but I find that that's much more helpful if

find that that's much more helpful if find that that's much more helpful if it's done on a personal level either it's done on a personal level either it's done on a personal level either with groups that are sort of opt in with groups that are sort of opt in with groups that are sort of opt in um and a little more personal and small um and a little more personal and small um and a little more personal and small ish and then or because otherwise if you ish and then or because otherwise if you ish and then or because otherwise if you have like a big event you are you are have like a big event you are you are have like a big event you are you are implicitly sort of uh telling people you implicitly sort of uh telling people you implicitly sort of uh telling people you approve of watching this thing right approve of watching this thing right approve of watching this thing right um and I think that can be a really um and I think that can be a really um and I think that can be a really dangerous thing I think the key for dangerous thing I think the key for dangerous thing I think the key for church leaders and churches is allowance church leaders and churches is allowance church leaders and churches is allowance and I mean that in the most positive and I mean that in the most positive and I mean that in the most positive active way uh I don't mean just like active way uh I don't mean just like active way uh I don't mean just like okay fine do your little pop culture okay fine do your little pop culture okay fine do your little pop culture stuff everybody what I mean is I think stuff everybody what I mean is I think stuff everybody what I mean is I think that pastors just like they would with that pastors just like they would with that pastors just like they would with plumbers and lawyers and anyone else plumbers and lawyers and anyone else plumbers and lawyers and anyone else should actively uh should actively uh should actively uh actively sort of uh encourage and allow actively sort of uh encourage and allow actively sort of uh encourage and allow for people to engage these things and uh for people to engage these things and uh for people to engage these things and uh the the things that we enjoy the things the the things that we enjoy the things the the things that we enjoy the things that we are into on an individual level that we are into on an individual level that we are into on an individual level passionate about are given to us uh passionate about are given to us uh passionate about are given to us uh almost all the time almost always from almost all the time almost always from almost all the time almost always from God those those things usually flow sort God those those things usually flow sort God those those things usually flow sort of out of our personality and out of the of out of our personality and out of the of out of our personality and out of the ways that we are gifted and so if a ways that we are gifted and so if a ways that we are gifted and so if a person is passionate about punk music or person is passionate about punk music or person is passionate about punk music or about you know video games or about about you know video games or about about you know video games or about movies or TV that's something that I movies or TV that's something that I movies or TV that's something that I think uh pastors and leaders at church think uh pastors and leaders at church think uh pastors and leaders at church have to be sort of actively encouraging have to be sort of actively encouraging have to be sort of actively encouraging towards so I mean my church I I wouldn't towards so I mean my church I I wouldn't towards so I mean my church I I wouldn't I certainly wouldn't say like hey here's I certainly wouldn't say like hey here's I certainly wouldn't say like hey here's a model because there's no model right

a model because there's no model right a model because there's no model right right but I would say at my church right but I would say at my church right but I would say at my church they're really good at sort of just they're really good at sort of just they're really good at sort of just talking with me about the stuff that I'm talking with me about the stuff that I'm talking with me about the stuff that I'm interested in and you know it's not that interested in and you know it's not that interested in and you know it's not that that's the only thing I can talk about that's the only thing I can talk about that's the only thing I can talk about but that does send us signal that hey I but that does send us signal that hey I but that does send us signal that hey I don't condemn you for this well yeah I don't condemn you for this well yeah I don't condemn you for this well yeah I think I think that's a good that's think I think that's a good that's think I think that's a good that's that's a that's a healthy perspective that's a that's a healthy perspective that's a that's a healthy perspective that you think a lot of times we have to that you think a lot of times we have to that you think a lot of times we have to realize that our people live within a realize that our people live within a realize that our people live within a context and context and context and um you know that they don't just think um you know that they don't just think um you know that they don't just think about what we're talking about all day about what we're talking about all day about what we're talking about all day long that they are watching movies and long that they are watching movies and long that they are watching movies and watching TV shows and listening to music watching TV shows and listening to music watching TV shows and listening to music um that you know that is a part of their um that you know that is a part of their um that you know that is a part of their lives and so how do we you know at least lives and so how do we you know at least lives and so how do we you know at least acknowledge that at the very base level acknowledge that at the very base level acknowledge that at the very base level um that that is a part of um that that is a part of um that that is a part of um you know where they're at so yeah um you know where they're at so yeah um you know where they're at so yeah that's that's cool that's I think it that's that's cool that's I think it that's that's cool that's I think it makes a lot of sense uh for sure makes a lot of sense uh for sure makes a lot of sense uh for sure anything else you'd want to share you anything else you'd want to share you anything else you'd want to share you know any kind of insights for people who know any kind of insights for people who know any kind of insights for people who may be listening in before we jump into may be listening in before we jump into may be listening in before we jump into lightning round lightning round lightning round uh no I would just say I would just say uh no I would just say I would just say uh no I would just say I would just say to keep an open mind uh when you engage to keep an open mind uh when you engage to keep an open mind uh when you engage with popular culture I think a lot of with popular culture I think a lot of with popular culture I think a lot of things that people think of as trash or things that people think of as trash or things that people think of as trash or guilty pleasures have a lot of value in guilty pleasures have a lot of value in guilty pleasures have a lot of value in them and uh the thing that we operate on them and uh the thing that we operate on them and uh the thing that we operate on is whatever is good whatever is true is whatever is good whatever is true is whatever is good whatever is true whatever is Noble think on these things whatever is Noble think on these things whatever is Noble think on these things and we interpret that in the way it's and we interpret that in the way it's and we interpret that in the way it's met which is that as opposed to I think met which is that as opposed to I think met which is that as opposed to I think a lot of people a lot of people read a lot of people a lot of people read a lot of people a lot of people read that as a negative statement it's that as a negative statement it's that as a negative statement it's actually a positive statement so it actually a positive statement so it actually a positive statement so it means anytime you see anything that is means anytime you see anything that is means anytime you see anything that is true Noble or good in any context in any true Noble or good in any context in any true Noble or good in any context in any medium in any work of art you have to

medium in any work of art you have to medium in any work of art you have to acknowledge that thing not blow it off acknowledge that thing not blow it off acknowledge that thing not blow it off because it's anti-christian somehow because it's anti-christian somehow because it's anti-christian somehow somewhere else you know what I mean so I somewhere else you know what I mean so I somewhere else you know what I mean so I think that's the first thing I think think that's the first thing I think think that's the first thing I think it's but at the same time it's really it's but at the same time it's really it's but at the same time it's really important to be Discerning to know when important to be Discerning to know when important to be Discerning to know when things are affecting you and harming you things are affecting you and harming you things are affecting you and harming you spiritually and uh to act on that as spiritually and uh to act on that as spiritually and uh to act on that as well nice any uh particular television well nice any uh particular television well nice any uh particular television shows movies that sort of stuff that shows movies that sort of stuff that shows movies that sort of stuff that you're looking forward to in the coming you're looking forward to in the coming you're looking forward to in the coming week weeks and months oh man week weeks and months oh man week weeks and months oh man uh I beside my own so I this is not like uh I beside my own so I this is not like uh I beside my own so I this is not like a a logical answer but I'm really a a logical answer but I'm really a a logical answer but I'm really excited to see the Left Behind movie excited to see the Left Behind movie excited to see the Left Behind movie it's got really bad reviews as we're it's got really bad reviews as we're it's got really bad reviews as we're speaking right now right but I am speaking right now right but I am speaking right now right but I am excited to go see it I think it's gonna excited to go see it I think it's gonna excited to go see it I think it's gonna be pretty funny be pretty funny be pretty funny which is awful which is awful which is awful um but yeah I'm excited about that it's um but yeah I'm excited about that it's um but yeah I'm excited about that it's a big deal for our website for obvious a big deal for our website for obvious a big deal for our website for obvious reasons I mean you've got this time reasons I mean you've got this time reasons I mean you've got this time between Nicolas Cage and then like uh between Nicolas Cage and then like uh between Nicolas Cage and then like uh like this blatantly Christian thing it's like this blatantly Christian thing it's like this blatantly Christian thing it's just like a perfect for us right so uh just like a perfect for us right so uh just like a perfect for us right so uh so we're doing a lot on that and then so we're doing a lot on that and then so we're doing a lot on that and then I'm also I'm getting a PlayStation 4 I'm also I'm getting a PlayStation 4 I'm also I'm getting a PlayStation 4 pretty soon and I'm excited about that pretty soon and I'm excited about that pretty soon and I'm excited about that I'm gonna play Destiny with my friends I'm gonna play Destiny with my friends I'm gonna play Destiny with my friends on the internet so this is the on on the internet so this is the on on the internet so this is the on Seminary podcast stuff you wish they Seminary podcast stuff you wish they Seminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary all right well we're taught in seminary all right well we're taught in seminary all right well we're gonna jump into the lightning round that gonna jump into the lightning round that gonna jump into the lightning round that part of the show where we just kind of part of the show where we just kind of part of the show where we just kind of wrap up and have similar questions that wrap up and have similar questions that wrap up and have similar questions that we ask of everybody that's uh on the we ask of everybody that's uh on the we ask of everybody that's uh on the show so today super excited to have show so today super excited to have show so today super excited to have Richard Clark from Christ and pop Richard Clark from Christ and pop Richard Clark from Christ and pop culture.com on the show glad to have him culture.com on the show glad to have him culture.com on the show glad to have him with us today Richard what is it like an with us today Richard what is it like an with us today Richard what is it like an online resource besides your site that

online resource besides your site that online resource besides your site that you're using these days that you're you're using these days that you're you're using these days that you're finding particularly helpful yeah I uh I finding particularly helpful yeah I uh I finding particularly helpful yeah I uh I used Facebook this is kind of an used Facebook this is kind of an used Facebook this is kind of an accident I kind of stumble upon every accident I kind of stumble upon every accident I kind of stumble upon every day Facebook trending topics okay uh day Facebook trending topics okay uh day Facebook trending topics okay uh because as a person who's sort of we're because as a person who's sort of we're because as a person who's sort of we're supposed to always be thinking like what supposed to always be thinking like what supposed to always be thinking like what are they talking about out there what is are they talking about out there what is are they talking about out there what is culture talking about generally I have a culture talking about generally I have a culture talking about generally I have a pretty good sense but sometimes I'll pretty good sense but sometimes I'll pretty good sense but sometimes I'll just look on there and be like oh whoa just look on there and be like oh whoa just look on there and be like oh whoa that's a thing and you always know that's a thing and you always know that's a thing and you always know that's about to be a thing people are that's about to be a thing people are that's about to be a thing people are going to talk about usually for you can going to talk about usually for you can going to talk about usually for you can kind of judge but based on the next two kind of judge but based on the next two kind of judge but based on the next two or three days I think for pastors it's a or three days I think for pastors it's a or three days I think for pastors it's a huge hugely valuable resource just to huge hugely valuable resource just to huge hugely valuable resource just to glance to that every day and to know glance to that every day and to know glance to that every day and to know it's there because uh a lot of times it's there because uh a lot of times it's there because uh a lot of times especially for something like Ferguson especially for something like Ferguson especially for something like Ferguson um that sort of thing what movies are um that sort of thing what movies are um that sort of thing what movies are coming out that weekend I hate to pair coming out that weekend I hate to pair coming out that weekend I hate to pair those two because they're drastically those two because they're drastically those two because they're drastically different but these are things that different but these are things that different but these are things that different types of people will be different types of people will be different types of people will be interested in and especially if you have interested in and especially if you have interested in and especially if you have a diverse Church you're going to want to a diverse Church you're going to want to a diverse Church you're going to want to you're going to want to pay attention to you're going to want to pay attention to you're going to want to pay attention to that absolutely how do people find uh that absolutely how do people find uh that absolutely how do people find uh those you know trending topics on those you know trending topics on those you know trending topics on Facebook it should just be right on the Facebook it should just be right on the Facebook it should just be right on the front page I think in the right sidebar front page I think in the right sidebar front page I think in the right sidebar right in there okay great perfect uh the right in there okay great perfect uh the right in there okay great perfect uh the other thing I use is Metacritic a lot other thing I use is Metacritic a lot other thing I use is Metacritic a lot just to see if movies are worth seeing just to see if movies are worth seeing just to see if movies are worth seeing right right right um so I just go to Metacritic and look um so I just go to Metacritic and look um so I just go to Metacritic and look nice exactly great all right what's a nice exactly great all right what's a nice exactly great all right what's a book you've read in the last six months book you've read in the last six months book you've read in the last six months or so that's had an impact on your uh or so that's had an impact on your uh or so that's had an impact on your uh your thinking or your ministry so one your thinking or your ministry so one your thinking or your ministry so one book is uh joy for the World by book is uh joy for the World by book is uh joy for the World by um oh my gosh I can't remember is it um oh my gosh I can't remember is it um oh my gosh I can't remember is it Greg Forster that's it Greg Forster joy

Greg Forster that's it Greg Forster joy Greg Forster that's it Greg Forster joy for the world is a really great book for the world is a really great book for the world is a really great book that has nothing to do with Christmas that has nothing to do with Christmas that has nothing to do with Christmas um except for the introduction he talks um except for the introduction he talks um except for the introduction he talks about Christmas a little bit but um it's about Christmas a little bit but um it's about Christmas a little bit but um it's more about cultural engagement and how more about cultural engagement and how more about cultural engagement and how Christians have had a really sort of uh Christians have had a really sort of uh Christians have had a really sort of uh like I guess a bad attitude and have like I guess a bad attitude and have like I guess a bad attitude and have kind of abandoned this concept of Joy kind of abandoned this concept of Joy kind of abandoned this concept of Joy when interacting with the world when interacting with the world when interacting with the world um and so it starts from that sort of um and so it starts from that sort of um and so it starts from that sort of thesis and just branches out and applies thesis and just branches out and applies thesis and just branches out and applies it in different ways it's a very very uh it in different ways it's a very very uh it in different ways it's a very very uh it's actually probably more insightful it's actually probably more insightful it's actually probably more insightful than you might think you may feel like than you might think you may feel like than you might think you may feel like you get that and uh I certainly did but you get that and uh I certainly did but you get that and uh I certainly did but reading the book um I thought it was reading the book um I thought it was reading the book um I thought it was really uh helpful and valuable cool really uh helpful and valuable cool really uh helpful and valuable cool that's uh fantastic all right that's uh fantastic all right that's uh fantastic all right um uh what's another Ministry that um uh what's another Ministry that um uh what's another Ministry that you're kind of looking at it's like wow you're kind of looking at it's like wow you're kind of looking at it's like wow that kind of inspires you you're kind of that kind of inspires you you're kind of that kind of inspires you you're kind of looking up to them thinking they're looking up to them thinking they're looking up to them thinking they're doing a great job doing a great job doing a great job there's a website called Mockingbird there's a website called Mockingbird there's a website called Mockingbird that's uh that's you can find it at that's uh that's you can find it at that's uh that's you can find it at mbird.com that's the URL I remember they mbird.com that's the URL I remember they mbird.com that's the URL I remember they also just start also just start also just start mockingbird.net I think it's one of mockingbird.net I think it's one of mockingbird.net I think it's one of those domains but uh Mockingbird is a those domains but uh Mockingbird is a those domains but uh Mockingbird is a really good Ministry that does kind of really good Ministry that does kind of really good Ministry that does kind of the same thing that we do except that the same thing that we do except that the same thing that we do except that they take a little more of a uh sort of they take a little more of a uh sort of they take a little more of a uh sort of Grace focused very a very focused Grace focused very a very focused Grace focused very a very focused approach it's a lot less reactionary approach it's a lot less reactionary approach it's a lot less reactionary than us admittedly than us admittedly than us admittedly um and so that we're always trying to um and so that we're always trying to um and so that we're always trying to like answer questions and uh react to like answer questions and uh react to like answer questions and uh react to things and respond to things Mockingbird

things and respond to things Mockingbird things and respond to things Mockingbird is kind of like the cooler guy out there is kind of like the cooler guy out there is kind of like the cooler guy out there who's like not letting stuff get to him who's like not letting stuff get to him who's like not letting stuff get to him and he's he's kind of happy with himself and he's he's kind of happy with himself and he's he's kind of happy with himself right right so um I would I would right right so um I would I would right right so um I would I would definitely they also have a magazine out definitely they also have a magazine out definitely they also have a magazine out there that's really cool there that's really cool there that's really cool um that they put out uh quarterly it's a um that they put out uh quarterly it's a um that they put out uh quarterly it's a great uh great magazine that you can get great uh great magazine that you can get great uh great magazine that you can get uh in print so and they do they also do uh in print so and they do they also do uh in print so and they do they also do conferences and things that will I think conferences and things that will I think conferences and things that will I think would help any minister to go check out would help any minister to go check out would help any minister to go check out cool all right so if you could get just cool all right so if you could get just cool all right so if you could get just two more questions if you could get 15 two more questions if you could get 15 two more questions if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who minutes with any leader alive today who minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get that time with and would you want to get that time with and would you want to get that time with and why why why uh Andy Crouch is a really sort of uh I uh Andy Crouch is a really sort of uh I uh Andy Crouch is a really sort of uh I think one of my biggest uh think one of my biggest uh think one of my biggest uh role models in terms of cultural writing role models in terms of cultural writing role models in terms of cultural writing and critique uh he's over at and critique uh he's over at and critique uh he's over at Christianity Today now kind of uh Christianity Today now kind of uh Christianity Today now kind of uh killing it over there I mean killing it over there I mean killing it over there I mean Christianity day is doing amazing things Christianity day is doing amazing things Christianity day is doing amazing things and so I think uh Andy Crouch is has a and so I think uh Andy Crouch is has a and so I think uh Andy Crouch is has a lot to do with that there's a lot of lot to do with that there's a lot of lot to do with that there's a lot of great people over there andy Crouch is great people over there andy Crouch is great people over there andy Crouch is in charge of basically all of it so in charge of basically all of it so in charge of basically all of it so um so yeah he's he's one that uh he's um so yeah he's he's one that uh he's um so yeah he's he's one that uh he's written some fantastic books that are written some fantastic books that are written some fantastic books that are right down down you know our alley uh right down down you know our alley uh right down down you know our alley uh and so if you're interested in cultural and so if you're interested in cultural and so if you're interested in cultural engagement that's that's what that'd be engagement that's that's what that'd be engagement that's that's what that'd be one all right well you know when you're one all right well you know when you're one all right well you know when you're not uh trying to understand all the pop not uh trying to understand all the pop not uh trying to understand all the pop culture that's out there what do you do culture that's out there what do you do culture that's out there what do you do for fun just to kind of kick back relax for fun just to kind of kick back relax for fun just to kind of kick back relax and enjoy life a little bit and enjoy life a little bit and enjoy life a little bit um my wife and I like to eat places

um my wife and I like to eat places um my wife and I like to eat places we like to eat at really nice not really we like to eat at really nice not really we like to eat at really nice not really nice but like interesting restaurants nice but like interesting restaurants nice but like interesting restaurants we're fascinated with good food I I am we're fascinated with good food I I am we're fascinated with good food I I am especially here in Louisville the the especially here in Louisville the the especially here in Louisville the the foodie scene is pretty good and is foodie scene is pretty good and is foodie scene is pretty good and is getting exponentially better every year getting exponentially better every year getting exponentially better every year so so so um that's been really fun um that's been really fun um that's been really fun um and I like to play video games as I um and I like to play video games as I um and I like to play video games as I referenced earlier we uh yeah I it's referenced earlier we uh yeah I it's referenced earlier we uh yeah I it's something I've been doing for a long something I've been doing for a long something I've been doing for a long time for years and I write about video time for years and I write about video time for years and I write about video games for various secular outlets and so games for various secular outlets and so games for various secular outlets and so uh video games is a huge one for me nice uh video games is a huge one for me nice uh video games is a huge one for me nice well thanks so much for being on the well thanks so much for being on the well thanks so much for being on the show today I didn't would love people to show today I didn't would love people to show today I didn't would love people to go by and check out go by and check out go by and check out christinpopculture.com we'll link to christinpopculture.com we'll link to christinpopculture.com we'll link to that obviously in the show notes as well that obviously in the show notes as well that obviously in the show notes as well for today but Richard thanks so much for for today but Richard thanks so much for for today but Richard thanks so much for being on is there anything else uh just being on is there anything else uh just being on is there anything else uh just as we wrap up or is there any other way as we wrap up or is there any other way as we wrap up or is there any other way people can get in touch with you on are people can get in touch with you on are people can get in touch with you on are you on Twitter or that kind of thing you on Twitter or that kind of thing you on Twitter or that kind of thing yeah I am on Twitter I'm at dead yet yeah I am on Twitter I'm at dead yet yeah I am on Twitter I'm at dead yet living so kind of like a zombie sounding living so kind of like a zombie sounding living so kind of like a zombie sounding thing thing thing um dead yet living and then the other um dead yet living and then the other um dead yet living and then the other thing I will say is that if you're a thing I will say is that if you're a thing I will say is that if you're a minister and you're interested in sort minister and you're interested in sort minister and you're interested in sort of following this stuff and really being of following this stuff and really being of following this stuff and really being helped to be thoughtful about it helped to be thoughtful about it helped to be thoughtful about it um I think and this is biased because um I think and this is biased because um I think and this is biased because it's basically just a plug but I also it's basically just a plug but I also it's basically just a plug but I also think it's true one of the most helpful think it's true one of the most helpful think it's true one of the most helpful things you can do is become a member of things you can do is become a member of things you can do is become a member of Christ and pop culture so you can do Christ and pop culture so you can do Christ and pop culture so you can do that by going to our website and that by going to our website and that by going to our website and clicking on the big membership Banner clicking on the big membership Banner clicking on the big membership Banner um what that does is it will give you um what that does is it will give you um what that does is it will give you access two it's five dollars a month and access two it's five dollars a month and access two it's five dollars a month and it will give you access to uh at one or

it will give you access to uh at one or it will give you access to uh at one or two usually to almost always to member two usually to almost always to member two usually to almost always to member offerings every month and those are sort offerings every month and those are sort offerings every month and those are sort of books that we really love or albums of books that we really love or albums of books that we really love or albums or just works of art or things people or just works of art or things people or just works of art or things people have created that people that we really have created that people that we really have created that people that we really love love love um we've got a thing with Crossway where um we've got a thing with Crossway where um we've got a thing with Crossway where they're they're offering a free book they're they're offering a free book they're they're offering a free book every month to our members these are every month to our members these are every month to our members these are e-books um so like the book I was e-books um so like the book I was e-books um so like the book I was talking about uh joy for the world that talking about uh joy for the world that talking about uh joy for the world that was available for a time right now we've was available for a time right now we've was available for a time right now we've got rid of our disgrace and got rid of our disgrace and got rid of our disgrace and um Mike cosper's the stories we tell um Mike cosper's the stories we tell um Mike cosper's the stories we tell which is an incredible book about uh which is an incredible book about uh which is an incredible book about uh film and television nice film and television nice film and television nice um those are really good resources I um those are really good resources I um those are really good resources I think and then also there's a a think and then also there's a a think and then also there's a a discussion group that you'll have access discussion group that you'll have access discussion group that you'll have access to where a lot of people just talk to where a lot of people just talk to where a lot of people just talk civilly about popular issues civilly about popular issues civilly about popular issues and you'll get a subscription included and you'll get a subscription included and you'll get a subscription included with that to crisis Pop Culture magazine with that to crisis Pop Culture magazine with that to crisis Pop Culture magazine which is long-form articles that take which is long-form articles that take which is long-form articles that take take sort of a deep uh thoughtful take sort of a deep uh thoughtful take sort of a deep uh thoughtful approach even more thoughtful than on approach even more thoughtful than on approach even more thoughtful than on the website approach to uh cultural the website approach to uh cultural the website approach to uh cultural issues issues issues great well yeah I'd love people to drop great well yeah I'd love people to drop great well yeah I'd love people to drop by and check that out again that's at by and check that out again that's at by and check that out again that's at Christ and popculture.com I really Christ and popculture.com I really Christ and popculture.com I really appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today Richard yeah thanks thanks for having us Richard yeah thanks thanks for having us Richard yeah thanks thanks for having us it's fun thanks so much it's fun thanks so much it's fun thanks so much thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd on Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd on Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive

immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary