John Finkelde on Making Non-Sunday Connections with the Next Generation in Australia

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by church community brought to you by church community brought to you by church community builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness church community builder provides church community builder provides church community builder provides leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into engagement of our church community engagement of our church community engagement of our church community helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn more welcome to the unseen re podcast more welcome to the unseen re podcast more welcome to the unseen re podcast are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others and pursuit of stuff thousands of others and pursuit of stuff thousands of others and pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast hey this week's on seminary podcast hey this week's on seminary podcast hey everybody how welcome to the unset Mary everybody how welcome to the unset Mary everybody how welcome to the unset Mary podcast happy thursday hopefully you are podcast happy thursday hopefully you are podcast happy thursday hopefully you are having a good week listening I am so having a good week listening I am so having a good week listening I am so glad that you've tuned in today you're glad that you've tuned in today you're glad that you've tuned in today you're going to be really rewarded for that going to be really rewarded for that going to be really rewarded for that we've got a great leader guy by the name we've got a great leader guy by the name we've got a great leader guy by the name of John Fink LD who is all the way from of John Fink LD who is all the way from of John Fink LD who is all the way from Australia really a post-christian Australia really a post-christian Australia really a post-christian context and John today is going to dig context and John today is going to dig context and John today is going to dig in to the lessons he's learning from in to the lessons he's learning from in to the lessons he's learning from leading there I think you're going to leading there I think you're going to leading there I think you're going to find this both an inspirational and find this both an inspirational and find this both an inspirational and highly applicable podcast so you'll be highly applicable podcast so you'll be highly applicable podcast so you'll be rewarded for tuning in all month talking rewarded for tuning in all month talking rewarded for tuning in all month talking with church leaders are great the launch with church leaders are great the launch with church leaders are great the launch of my new book it's called unreasonable of my new book it's called unreasonable of my new book it's called unreasonable churches it launches in just a few days churches it launches in just a few days churches it launches in just a few days November first the subtitle tells it all November first the subtitle tells it all November first the subtitle tells it all it's ten churches who zagged when others it's ten churches who zagged when others it's ten churches who zagged when others zigged and saw more impact because of it zigged and saw more impact because of it zigged and saw more impact because of it listen I wrote this book really for you

listen I wrote this book really for you listen I wrote this book really for you and your team and have structured every and your team and have structured every and your team and have structured every pen chapters where we talk about pen chapters where we talk about pen chapters where we talk about points for your team to act on so really points for your team to act on so really points for your team to act on so really what we've tried to do is make this very what we've tried to do is make this very what we've tried to do is make this very applicable for your people to apply I'm applicable for your people to apply I'm applicable for your people to apply I'm hoping really that what this will do is hoping really that what this will do is hoping really that what this will do is spur your church on to try some new spur your church on to try some new spur your church on to try some new things to take some new risks in things to take some new risks in things to take some new risks in reaching with John from Australia this reaching with John from Australia this reaching with John from Australia this is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary hey rich great they taught in seminary hey rich great they taught in seminary hey rich great to be with you and with all the to be with you and with all the to be with you and with all the listeners today going to be back on the listeners today going to be back on the listeners today going to be back on the podcast so so glad John why don't you podcast so so glad John why don't you podcast so so glad John why don't you kind of tell us about Australia give us kind of tell us about Australia give us kind of tell us about Australia give us the kind of spiritual climb at the the kind of spiritual climb at the the kind of spiritual climb at the makeup of your country yeah look makeup of your country yeah look makeup of your country yeah look Australia is a very secular country so Australia is a very secular country so Australia is a very secular country so it doesn't have a church-going culture it doesn't have a church-going culture it doesn't have a church-going culture it has had in many decades ago but the it has had in many decades ago but the it has had in many decades ago but the climate of the culture is a pretty well climate of the culture is a pretty well climate of the culture is a pretty well less than temps and Australians would less than temps and Australians would less than temps and Australians would attend church on any given weekend it's attend church on any given weekend it's attend church on any given weekend it's been a really long term decrease in been a really long term decrease in been a really long term decrease in affiliation to Christianity looking at affiliation to Christianity looking at affiliation to Christianity looking at our census from over just over a hundred our census from over just over a hundred our census from over just over a hundred years ago ninety-six percent of people years ago ninety-six percent of people years ago ninety-six percent of people 100 years ago connected with being a 100 years ago connected with being a 100 years ago connected with being a Christian well census five years ago Christian well census five years ago Christian well census five years ago that was down to sixty one percent so that was down to sixty one percent so that was down to sixty one percent so it's a massive fall away over a century it's a massive fall away over a century it's a massive fall away over a century strings on a generally fairly strings on a generally fairly strings on a generally fairly anti-authoritarian culture anyway but anti-authoritarian culture anyway but anti-authoritarian culture anyway but they're especially suspicious and they're especially suspicious and they're especially suspicious and cynical of churches and believers so you

cynical of churches and believers so you cynical of churches and believers so you find that people are not that open to an find that people are not that open to an find that people are not that open to an invite to church so it's not like an invite to church so it's not like an invite to church so it's not like an Australian generally won't get up on a Australian generally won't get up on a Australian generally won't get up on a Sunday hey OH which church should i go Sunday hey OH which church should i go Sunday hey OH which church should i go to today right they're not talking about to today right they're not talking about to today right they're not talking about that when they wake up on Sundays now that when they wake up on Sundays now that when they wake up on Sundays now now why why why you know what's with the now why why why you know what's with the now why why why you know what's with the cynicism what is that I always take it cynicism what is that I always take it cynicism what is that I always take it as like I feel like my Australian as like I feel like my Australian as like I feel like my Australian friends have this great biting sense of friends have this great biting sense of friends have this great biting sense of humor yeah you know there is like a yeah humor yeah you know there is like a yeah humor yeah you know there is like a yeah which is great what is what do you think which is great what is what do you think which is great what is what do you think is kind of made that culture yeah look is kind of made that culture yeah look is kind of made that culture yeah look III think is related probably a lot to III think is related probably a lot to III think is related probably a lot to our history and also prob our isolation our history and also prob our isolation our history and also prob our isolation as a nation that Australia is a fairly as a nation that Australia is a fairly as a nation that Australia is a fairly you'd have to call in a feeling ruined you'd have to call in a feeling ruined you'd have to call in a feeling ruined rugged land and sense of being pioneered rugged land and sense of being pioneered rugged land and sense of being pioneered so people coming out here so people coming out here so people coming out here to get the kind of strike out on their to get the kind of strike out on their to get the kind of strike out on their own make it work for themselves so quite own make it work for themselves so quite own make it work for themselves so quite an independent sort of heart and spirit an independent sort of heart and spirit an independent sort of heart and spirit within Australians and I think within Australians and I think within Australians and I think Australians and I put it down to a bit Australians and I put it down to a bit Australians and I put it down to a bit of our Irish background we've got quite of our Irish background we've got quite of our Irish background we've got quite a lot of Irish connection back in our a lot of Irish connection back in our a lot of Irish connection back in our 19th century history especially I think 19th century history especially I think 19th century history especially I think that quite really is a strong streak of that quite really is a strong streak of that quite really is a strong streak of anti authoritarianism in Australia and I anti authoritarianism in Australia and I anti authoritarianism in Australia and I think as we've grown up and broken away think as we've grown up and broken away think as we've grown up and broken away from mother Englanders she used to be from mother Englanders she used to be from mother Englanders she used to be called in our nation we've kind of been called in our nation we've kind of been called in our nation we've kind of been like the teenager that's still yelling like the teenager that's still yelling like the teenager that's still yelling at our parents sort of thing and wanted at our parents sort of thing and wanted at our parents sort of thing and wanted to prove ourselves so if anyone comes of to prove ourselves so if anyone comes of to prove ourselves so if anyone comes of a sense of authority like with the Bible a sense of authority like with the Bible a sense of authority like with the Bible or with moralistic sort of teaching or with moralistic sort of teaching or with moralistic sort of teaching people are very cynical and very

people are very cynical and very people are very cynical and very suspicious suspicious i love you even if suspicious suspicious i love you even if suspicious suspicious i love you even if you're coming from the government with a you're coming from the government with a you're coming from the government with a degree of authority or in the workplace degree of authority or in the workplace degree of authority or in the workplace of a degree of authority so I think it's of a degree of authority so I think it's of a degree of authority so I think it's more than just church I think it's going more than just church I think it's going more than just church I think it's going to be bred into the the Australian to be bred into the the Australian to be bred into the the Australian psyche to kind of be cynical sarcastic psyche to kind of be cynical sarcastic psyche to kind of be cynical sarcastic we're known for being cutting in our we're known for being cutting in our we're known for being cutting in our humor and then suspicious so when people humor and then suspicious so when people humor and then suspicious so when people inviting others to church they have to inviting others to church they have to inviting others to church they have to really climb over into that relational really climb over into that relational really climb over into that relational space simple they starts and come to space simple they starts and come to space simple they starts and come to church yeah there isn't kind of a hey church yeah there isn't kind of a hey church yeah there isn't kind of a hey this is something you know necessarily this is something you know necessarily this is something you know necessarily this is important for you it's like this this is important for you it's like this this is important for you it's like this has got to work for you relationally you has got to work for you relationally you has got to work for you relationally you know for people to want to plug in I know for people to want to plug in I know for people to want to plug in I know one of the things I love about kind know one of the things I love about kind know one of the things I love about kind of again my non sociologists you know of again my non sociologists you know of again my non sociologists you know thumbnail sketch of the half a dozen thumbnail sketch of the half a dozen thumbnail sketch of the half a dozen Australia's we should have a couple Australia's we should have a couple Australia's we should have a couple Australians on staff at at liquid again Australians on staff at at liquid again Australians on staff at at liquid again that one of the things I love is there that one of the things I love is there that one of the things I love is there is like a kind of fun-loving yep you is like a kind of fun-loving yep you is like a kind of fun-loving yep you know happy culture like it it is like I know happy culture like it it is like I know happy culture like it it is like I remember I saw this video once of a remember I saw this video once of a remember I saw this video once of a prime minister who I think was getting prime minister who I think was getting prime minister who I think was getting ready for a video interview and his and ready for a video interview and his and ready for a video interview and his and that he didn't realize he was on camera that he didn't realize he was on camera that he didn't realize he was on camera that they were doing a set up and he was that they were doing a set up and he was that they were doing a set up and he was like he's like changing his pants and so like he's like changing his pants and so like he's like changing his pants and so here's the Prime Minister leader of the here's the Prime Minister leader of the here's the Prime Minister leader of the country you know with his pants down in country you know with his pants down in country you know with his pants down in this you know live shot and the thing so this you know live shot and the thing so this you know live shot and the thing so I thought that was funny and great but I thought that was funny and great but I thought that was funny and great but even more yeah the Prime Minister just even more yeah the Prime Minister just even more yeah the Prime Minister just kind of rolled with it it was just like kind of rolled with it it was just like kind of rolled with it it was just like back back back there it is where I think you know I there it is where I think you know I there it is where I think you know I think sometimes in other cultures that

think sometimes in other cultures that think sometimes in other cultures that kind of thing is there is like a kind of thing is there is like a kind of thing is there is like a referential kind of like treatment of referential kind of like treatment of referential kind of like treatment of leaders and you would never if that got leaders and you would never if that got leaders and you would never if that got caught you know the the PR people would caught you know the the PR people would caught you know the the PR people would clamp down on that you've got to delete clamp down on that you've got to delete clamp down on that you've got to delete this file this is never going to happen this file this is never going to happen this file this is never going to happen we can't let us leaders be seen like we can't let us leaders be seen like we can't let us leaders be seen like that but then I just loved it was just that but then I just loved it was just that but then I just loved it was just like BAM you know whatever this is kind like BAM you know whatever this is kind like BAM you know whatever this is kind of life so that's fun yeah so of life so that's fun yeah so of life so that's fun yeah so Australians have that informality of Australians have that informality of Australians have that informality of about them that again is a bit of a about them that again is a bit of a about them that again is a bit of a reaction to our mother England formality reaction to our mother England formality reaction to our mother England formality classes to very gala therrien so an classes to very gala therrien so an classes to very gala therrien so an Australian leader that's kind of caught Australian leader that's kind of caught Australian leader that's kind of caught short hasn't we're in that situation short hasn't we're in that situation short hasn't we're in that situation would probably win the big bit of laughs would probably win the big bit of laughs would probably win the big bit of laughs but they're probably Australians would but they're probably Australians would but they're probably Australians would generally be endeared to that leader I'm generally be endeared to that leader I'm generally be endeared to that leader I'm seeing the very human side of them so as seeing the very human side of them so as seeing the very human side of them so as a Christian you cannot go to some sense a Christian you cannot go to some sense a Christian you cannot go to some sense of spirituality in a sense of you know of spirituality in a sense of you know of spirituality in a sense of you know I'm holier than you I'm I'm kind of I'm holier than you I'm I'm kind of I'm holier than you I'm I'm kind of closer to God than you can't go with closer to God than you can't go with closer to God than you can't go with that be able to an Australian because of that be able to an Australian because of that be able to an Australian because of our girl taryn ism is well very strong our girl taryn ism is well very strong our girl taryn ism is well very strong in our culture yeah I think I you know in our culture yeah I think I you know in our culture yeah I think I you know that's it interesting you know this idea that's it interesting you know this idea that's it interesting you know this idea of the authority figure you know I think of the authority figure you know I think of the authority figure you know I think that is true i think i think there is that is true i think i think there is that is true i think i think there is generally and you know in kind of north generally and you know in kind of north generally and you know in kind of north american culture there's this you know american culture there's this you know american culture there's this you know significant erosion of this idea that significant erosion of this idea that significant erosion of this idea that well just because that leader says so i well just because that leader says so i well just because that leader says so i shouldn't do that you're like what are shouldn't do that you're like what are shouldn't do that you're like what are you talking about yeah yes and what's you talking about yeah yes and what's you talking about yeah yes and what's God kind of using in your culture to see God kind of using in your culture to see God kind of using in your culture to see people come connect you know get people come connect you know get people come connect you know get connected to you know to churches and connected to you know to churches and connected to you know to churches and ultimately connected to Christ you know ultimately connected to Christ you know ultimately connected to Christ you know one of the things I've loved about your

one of the things I've loved about your one of the things I've loved about your background is you've obviously have a background is you've obviously have a background is you've obviously have a passion for your your country but you've passion for your your country but you've passion for your your country but you've really seen some amazing things happen really seen some amazing things happen really seen some amazing things happen so what is it that you think God's using so what is it that you think God's using so what is it that you think God's using to see an impact in your community yeah to see an impact in your community yeah to see an impact in your community yeah I think there's a number of things and I I think there's a number of things and I I think there's a number of things and I think it does come back to this think it does come back to this think it does come back to this Australians love people who are Australians love people who are Australians love people who are authentic so any phony or flake and as authentic so any phony or flake and as authentic so any phony or flake and as far straightest will summarize be far straightest will summarize be far straightest will summarize be sarcastic and almost put people down sarcastic and almost put people down sarcastic and almost put people down just to see what's in them see what just to see what's in them see what just to see what's in them see what comes out and how real they are so for comes out and how real they are so for comes out and how real they are so for an Australian church to make an impact an Australian church to make an impact an Australian church to make an impact in their community there has to be a in their community there has to be a in their community there has to be a deep deep connection with hey this is deep deep connection with hey this is deep deep connection with hey this is the the the is what is really like to be a Christian is what is really like to be a Christian is what is really like to be a Christian and that that translates into their very and that that translates into their very and that that translates into their very pragmatic sort of exercise and song but pragmatic sort of exercise and song but pragmatic sort of exercise and song but one of the things I'm actually seen and one of the things I'm actually seen and one of the things I'm actually seen and it's kind of fairly recent as well it's kind of fairly recent as well it's kind of fairly recent as well talking with pastors i think i saw him a talking with pastors i think i saw him a talking with pastors i think i saw him a pastor in the eastern states of pastor in the eastern states of pastor in the eastern states of Australia about two weeks ago and he was Australia about two weeks ago and he was Australia about two weeks ago and he was talking about the breakthrough he'd had talking about the breakthrough he'd had talking about the breakthrough he'd had in his church and seeing people come to in his church and seeing people come to in his church and seeing people come to Christ from all sorts of different Christ from all sorts of different Christ from all sorts of different backgrounds was that he began to really backgrounds was that he began to really backgrounds was that he began to really seek the Lord and really pray and just seek the Lord and really pray and just seek the Lord and really pray and just talking with another another pastor talking with another another pastor talking with another another pastor recently same sort of deal going on in recently same sort of deal going on in recently same sort of deal going on in their heart as well that I that I think their heart as well that I that I think their heart as well that I that I think when the when the soil is hard you when the when the soil is hard you when the when the soil is hard you really do need to have a sense of going really do need to have a sense of going really do need to have a sense of going to the Lord and getting spiritual to the Lord and getting spiritual to the Lord and getting spiritual breakthrough in your area in your own breakthrough in your area in your own breakthrough in your area in your own heart and and probably that I think heart and and probably that I think heart and and probably that I think precipitates that a shift of attitude precipitates that a shift of attitude precipitates that a shift of attitude towards unbelievers towards people are

towards unbelievers towards people are towards unbelievers towards people are far from Christ so I think past is far from Christ so I think past is far from Christ so I think past is beginning to kind of really go you know beginning to kind of really go you know beginning to kind of really go you know what and less like unless I get a what and less like unless I get a what and less like unless I get a breakthrough from the Lord anything I'm breakthrough from the Lord anything I'm breakthrough from the Lord anything I'm gonna try is not really gonna work I gonna try is not really gonna work I gonna try is not really gonna work I think it parcels also sorry no I think think it parcels also sorry no I think think it parcels also sorry no I think that's good that's a good i love that that's good that's a good i love that that's good that's a good i love that kind of internal let's start with our kind of internal let's start with our kind of internal let's start with our own you know bed this is you got to own you know bed this is you got to own you know bed this is you got to connect inside of us it's got to change connect inside of us it's got to change connect inside of us it's got to change us and i know that's like maybe an easy us and i know that's like maybe an easy us and i know that's like maybe an easy thing to write you know roll past but I thing to write you know roll past but I thing to write you know roll past but I love that you've started there you know love that you've started there you know love that you've started there you know when we're trying to reach out into when we're trying to reach out into when we're trying to reach out into cultures that are cynical that our cultures that are cynical that our cultures that are cynical that our post-christian they've got to see post-christian they've got to see post-christian they've got to see transformed lives first they've got to transformed lives first they've got to transformed lives first they've got to say you know does it work for that guy say you know does it work for that guy say you know does it work for that guy does it says it seemed to make any does it says it seemed to make any does it says it seemed to make any difference in his life I love that yeah difference in his life I love that yeah difference in his life I love that yeah and I think pastors in Australia we get and I think pastors in Australia we get and I think pastors in Australia we get ahold of this sort of sort of passion ahold of this sort of sort of passion ahold of this sort of sort of passion for christ afresh then they get a for christ afresh then they get a for christ afresh then they get a passion for what Christ has a passion passion for what Christ has a passion passion for what Christ has a passion for which is definitely people who are for which is definitely people who are for which is definitely people who are lost people are going to lost eternity lost people are going to lost eternity lost people are going to lost eternity so I think then also pastas like where I so I think then also pastas like where I so I think then also pastas like where I see church growth going on in Australia see church growth going on in Australia see church growth going on in Australia pastors are doing their own connection pastors are doing their own connection pastors are doing their own connection to non-christians and you know it's like to non-christians and you know it's like to non-christians and you know it's like in a pastoral life you can live a fairly in a pastoral life you can live a fairly in a pastoral life you can live a fairly monastic life style where you kind of monastic life style where you kind of monastic life style where you kind of work in a church you've kind of got work in a church you've kind of got work in a church you've kind of got people around your Christians all the people around your Christians all the people around your Christians all the time or your friends are Christians time or your friends are Christians time or your friends are Christians surpasses I know surpasses I know surpasses I know who have grown churches are deliberately who have grown churches are deliberately who have grown churches are deliberately breaking out of this mold of unlocked breaking out of this mold of unlocked breaking out of this mold of unlocked down into my office on lock down to my down into my office on lock down to my down into my office on lock down to my lifestyle and getting out there doing lifestyle and getting out there doing lifestyle and getting out there doing things like joining a sports club a things like joining a sports club a things like joining a sports club a photography club connecting with their photography club connecting with their photography club connecting with their neighbors maybe through their sports or neighbors maybe through their sports or neighbors maybe through their sports or school communities but they're making

school communities but they're making school communities but they're making endeavors to break down the connections endeavors to break down the connections endeavors to break down the connections you know to kind of build up the you know to kind of build up the you know to kind of build up the connections between themselves and connections between themselves and connections between themselves and non-christians break down the walls that non-christians break down the walls that non-christians break down the walls that are there so that when they come to are there so that when they come to are there so that when they come to their church to talk about hey we have their church to talk about hey we have their church to talk about hey we have this special event coming up in four this special event coming up in four this special event coming up in four weeks time in at church it's a plus one weeks time in at church it's a plus one weeks time in at church it's a plus one event bring someone else bring one other event bring someone else bring one other event bring someone else bring one other to the event that doesn't know the Lord to the event that doesn't know the Lord to the event that doesn't know the Lord or as a Christian who's away from the or as a Christian who's away from the or as a Christian who's away from the Lord at the moment Plus as saying hey I Lord at the moment Plus as saying hey I Lord at the moment Plus as saying hey I it is a person I'm inviting and they're it is a person I'm inviting and they're it is a person I'm inviting and they're modeling it and that always produces modeling it and that always produces modeling it and that always produces momentum within a church as well you momentum within a church as well you momentum within a church as well you know I think that's so good I you know I know I think that's so good I you know I know I think that's so good I you know I think sometimes obviously a big part of think sometimes obviously a big part of think sometimes obviously a big part of the way we're trying to make an impact the way we're trying to make an impact the way we're trying to make an impact in our communities is by in you know in in our communities is by in you know in in our communities is by in you know in couraging our people to invite their couraging our people to invite their couraging our people to invite their friends and you know I've said so many friends and you know I've said so many friends and you know I've said so many pastors over the years listen we you pastors over the years listen we you pastors over the years listen we you can't get up and say please invite can't get up and say please invite can't get up and say please invite someone if even if even if you don't someone if even if even if you don't someone if even if even if you don't tell people this is the person I'm tell people this is the person I'm tell people this is the person I'm inviting people can get that stuff inviting people can get that stuff inviting people can get that stuff pretty clearly you know they're you know pretty clearly you know they're you know pretty clearly you know they're you know if they're being sold a bill of goods if they're being sold a bill of goods if they're being sold a bill of goods and it changes it changes your you know and it changes it changes your you know and it changes it changes your you know perception and it also changes the perception and it also changes the perception and it also changes the frankly you'd be like I'm not sure frankly you'd be like I'm not sure frankly you'd be like I'm not sure anybody I'm not none of my friends have anybody I'm not none of my friends have anybody I'm not none of my friends have come to this thing so why am I trying to come to this thing so why am I trying to come to this thing so why am I trying to get other people to come to it ah you get other people to come to it ah you get other people to come to it ah you know that's right so I if as people are know that's right so I if as people are know that's right so I if as people are making those connections they're making making those connections they're making making those connections they're making those bridge to the community what is those bridge to the community what is those bridge to the community what is that looking like you know from there that looking like you know from there that looking like you know from there that as they kind of develop those that as they kind of develop those that as they kind of develop those relationships but then what are they relationships but then what are they relationships but then what are they what is what is that looking like in what is what is that looking like in what is what is that looking like in churches that are growing here yes sir churches that are growing here yes sir churches that are growing here yes sir church is doing number of things doing a church is doing number of things doing a church is doing number of things doing a number what I called on Sunday number what I called on Sunday number what I called on Sunday connection moments and there's a lot of

connection moments and there's a lot of connection moments and there's a lot of youth and children's programs use that youth and children's programs use that youth and children's programs use that are fairly regular children's and kids are fairly regular children's and kids are fairly regular children's and kids programs through churches so beer this programs through churches so beer this programs through churches so beer this program called mainly music that is program called mainly music that is program called mainly music that is about kids basically coming us really about kids basically coming us really about kids basically coming us really young children coming to kind of explore young children coming to kind of explore young children coming to kind of explore Muse you can sing and play a few Muse you can sing and play a few Muse you can sing and play a few instruments it's kind of a fun sort of instruments it's kind of a fun sort of instruments it's kind of a fun sort of event event event but churches are holding that up to but churches are holding that up to but churches are holding that up to school within their buildings they're school within their buildings they're school within their buildings they're having post-school sort of sessions for having post-school sort of sessions for having post-school sort of sessions for kids with other sort of programs fund kids with other sort of programs fund kids with other sort of programs fund programs as well playgroups even child programs as well playgroups even child programs as well playgroups even child care centers and then going actually out care centers and then going actually out care centers and then going actually out into schools providing school breakfast into schools providing school breakfast into schools providing school breakfast lunch time school program so churches lunch time school program so churches lunch time school program so churches are aiming at that under-20 generation are aiming at that under-20 generation are aiming at that under-20 generation the students and children's generation the students and children's generation the students and children's generation to get a seed in their early in the to get a seed in their early in the to get a seed in their early in the piece so chaplaincy are now in piece so chaplaincy are now in piece so chaplaincy are now in Australian schools is a massive thing Australian schools is a massive thing Australian schools is a massive thing where Christian chaplains are in primary where Christian chaplains are in primary where Christian chaplains are in primary schools and in high schools really schools and in high schools really schools and in high schools really pretty well across Australia now and I pretty well across Australia now and I pretty well across Australia now and I would say almost i would suggest would say almost i would suggest would say almost i would suggest probably ninety percent of high schools probably ninety percent of high schools probably ninety percent of high schools and this is government schools in and this is government schools in and this is government schools in australia what does that look like what australia what does that look like what australia what does that look like what does that tell me about that that's it does that tell me about that that's it does that tell me about that that's it yeah that seems like such an opposite to yeah that seems like such an opposite to yeah that seems like such an opposite to an increasingly secular you know color an increasingly secular you know color an increasingly secular you know color to then say well we also have this kind to then say well we also have this kind to then say well we also have this kind of strong chaplaincy tell me about that of strong chaplaincy tell me about that of strong chaplaincy tell me about that yeah yeah well it's the interesting yeah yeah well it's the interesting yeah yeah well it's the interesting thing and probably started rolling about thing and probably started rolling about thing and probably started rolling about 20 years ago when churches realize we're 20 years ago when churches realize we're 20 years ago when churches realize we're not reaching our schools so Jen she not reaching our schools so Jen she not reaching our schools so Jen she began to strategize how can we get into began to strategize how can we get into began to strategize how can we get into the school the best way is to provide the school the best way is to provide the school the best way is to provide someone who's there full time during the

someone who's there full time during the someone who's there full time during the week as of counseling a as a connection week as of counseling a as a connection week as of counseling a as a connection point for students who is not a teacher point for students who is not a teacher point for students who is not a teacher and involved in the authoritarian and involved in the authoritarian and involved in the authoritarian structure of of the school but as there structure of of the school but as there structure of of the school but as there as a comfort care counseling sort of as a comfort care counseling sort of as a comfort care counseling sort of mode coming alongside the students so as mode coming alongside the students so as mode coming alongside the students so as churches began to raise money and put churches began to raise money and put churches began to raise money and put chaplains into schools what they found chaplains into schools what they found chaplains into schools what they found was that the greatest supporters of the was that the greatest supporters of the was that the greatest supporters of the chaplains were not the churches actually chaplains were not the churches actually chaplains were not the churches actually all the passes it was the school all the passes it was the school all the passes it was the school principals they thought the ones who principals they thought the ones who principals they thought the ones who opened the door said okay you come in as opened the door said okay you come in as opened the door said okay you come in as a Christian Chapman II cannot preach the a Christian Chapman II cannot preach the a Christian Chapman II cannot preach the gospel but come in here is a Christian gospel but come in here is a Christian gospel but come in here is a Christian chap and we know you're connected to a chap and we know you're connected to a chap and we know you're connected to a church and they found they had such a church and they found they had such a church and they found they had such a positive impact on the kids eventually positive impact on the kids eventually positive impact on the kids eventually word spread around and these principles word spread around and these principles word spread around and these principles are kind of sight I I need one of those are kind of sight I I need one of those are kind of sight I I need one of those chaplains and by the way don't leave in chaplains and by the way don't leave in chaplains and by the way don't leave in a hurry hang around here for a few years a hurry hang around here for a few years a hurry hang around here for a few years why and then the government said you why and then the government said you why and then the government said you know what this program is helping know what this program is helping know what this program is helping schools so much will actually put schools so much will actually put schools so much will actually put government money in to help funding government money in to help funding government money in to help funding these chaplains so church has raised these chaplains so church has raised these chaplains so church has raised money for them government puts money in money for them government puts money in money for them government puts money in as well and that then gives a tremendous as well and that then gives a tremendous as well and that then gives a tremendous footing for the church to go and with a footing for the church to go and with a footing for the church to go and with a lunchtime program or a program because lunchtime program or a program because lunchtime program or a program because the reputation of the church is built the reputation of the church is built the reputation of the church is built massively now there are a number of kind massively now there are a number of kind massively now there are a number of kind of certain commentators in the media who of certain commentators in the media who of certain commentators in the media who are completely opposed to jacqueline's are completely opposed to jacqueline's are completely opposed to jacqueline's because of the Christian feel of it but because of the Christian feel of it but because of the Christian feel of it but if you talk to any school principal with if you talk to any school principal with if you talk to any school principal with a chaplain they'll say get your hands a chaplain they'll say get your hands a chaplain they'll say get your hands off you leave the chaplain eat right off you leave the chaplain eat right off you leave the chaplain eat right well I would imagine at its at its core

well I would imagine at its at its core well I would imagine at its at its core and its base level there's a little bit and its base level there's a little bit and its base level there's a little bit of the principles are like it's one more of the principles are like it's one more of the principles are like it's one more person to help me with these kids yeah person to help me with these kids yeah person to help me with these kids yeah you know it's like what you know with you know it's like what you know with you know it's like what you know with the government cutting so much spending the government cutting so much spending the government cutting so much spending we're you know we're down on so many we're you know we're down on so many we're you know we're down on so many staff from ten years ago hey here's one staff from ten years ago hey here's one staff from ten years ago hey here's one more person even if it's like picking up more person even if it's like picking up more person even if it's like picking up at occasional you know sports team or at occasional you know sports team or at occasional you know sports team or you know hey I'll help with a kid who's you know hey I'll help with a kid who's you know hey I'll help with a kid who's struggling or and teachers no principles struggling or and teachers no principles struggling or and teachers no principles no you know there's so many kids going no you know there's so many kids going no you know there's so many kids going through stuff at home having an extra through stuff at home having an extra through stuff at home having an extra person to provide some emotional support person to provide some emotional support person to provide some emotional support wow that's that's amazing huh that's wow that's that's amazing huh that's wow that's that's amazing huh that's cool it's it's been a revolution I think cool it's it's been a revolution I think cool it's it's been a revolution I think it last 20 years in Australia and and I it last 20 years in Australia and and I it last 20 years in Australia and and I think then as churches of got a think then as churches of got a think then as churches of got a reputation of being credible round also reputation of being credible round also reputation of being credible round also been considerate of boundaries and so on been considerate of boundaries and so on been considerate of boundaries and so on then they've been able to channel kids then they've been able to channel kids then they've been able to channel kids who are interested in faith towards who are interested in faith towards who are interested in faith towards church youth group programs in the area church youth group programs in the area church youth group programs in the area so i think the harvest is still young so i think the harvest is still young so i think the harvest is still young around the globe and definitely is in around the globe and definitely is in around the globe and definitely is in australia where we're seeing significant australia where we're seeing significant australia where we're seeing significant numbers of young people and children 12 numbers of young people and children 12 numbers of young people and children 12 christ through programs that are christ through programs that are christ through programs that are connected to chaplains as well but connected to chaplains as well but connected to chaplains as well but before we move on to some other stuff i before we move on to some other stuff i before we move on to some other stuff i just want to kind of focus i want to just want to kind of focus i want to just want to kind of focus i want to pull something out there seems to be a pull something out there seems to be a pull something out there seems to be a common thread that prevailing churches common thread that prevailing churches common thread that prevailing churches invest time resources and leadership invest time resources and leadership invest time resources and leadership into next generation ministries all the into next generation ministries all the into next generation ministries all the things you've just described that that things you've just described that that things you've just described that that does seem to be almost a universal does seem to be almost a universal does seem to be almost a universal global you know reality that if you look global you know reality that if you look global you know reality that if you look at churches that are really you know at churches that are really you know at churches that are really you know that are reaching people and are growing that are reaching people and are growing that are reaching people and are growing they all have is that they don't look at

they all have is that they don't look at they all have is that they don't look at their kids ministry is like wow that's their kids ministry is like wow that's their kids ministry is like wow that's just like let's just take care of those just like let's just take care of those just like let's just take care of those people let's kind of warehouse them people let's kind of warehouse them people let's kind of warehouse them until they get old enough they see it as until they get old enough they see it as until they get old enough they see it as hey this is a strategic you know hey this is a strategic you know hey this is a strategic you know opportunity for the gospel and that's opportunity for the gospel and that's opportunity for the gospel and that's what i hear is happen what i hear is happen what i hear is happen here in Australia as well Yeah Yeah here in Australia as well Yeah Yeah here in Australia as well Yeah Yeah right rich and I think what happens is right rich and I think what happens is right rich and I think what happens is as pastors and if a pastor's is and it as pastors and if a pastor's is and it as pastors and if a pastor's is and it churches very low in people getting churches very low in people getting churches very low in people getting baptized people come to Christ getting baptized people come to Christ getting baptized people come to Christ getting baptized and disciple where I generally baptized and disciple where I generally baptized and disciple where I generally start the past drop as I I start start the past drop as I I start start the past drop as I I start challenging them to be in preaching on challenging them to be in preaching on challenging them to be in preaching on evangelism and to have one or two series evangelism and to have one or two series evangelism and to have one or two series in a year to preach down there because I in a year to preach down there because I in a year to preach down there because I know if they're authentic when they know if they're authentic when they know if they're authentic when they preach they'll have to be modeling it preach they'll have to be modeling it preach they'll have to be modeling it and therefore it will stir all sorts of and therefore it will stir all sorts of and therefore it will stir all sorts of things and soon as they start getting things and soon as they start getting things and soon as they start getting intentional about evangelism they intentional about evangelism they intentional about evangelism they realize that winning people to Christ realize that winning people to Christ realize that winning people to Christ before they're 20 is a lot easier than before they're 20 is a lot easier than before they're 20 is a lot easier than winning them when they're after 25 30 35 winning them when they're after 25 30 35 winning them when they're after 25 30 35 and locked into a lifestyle so they and locked into a lifestyle so they and locked into a lifestyle so they start to read the fruit that they see in start to read the fruit that they see in start to read the fruit that they see in children's ministry youth ministry children's ministry youth ministry children's ministry youth ministry compared to out all men istry not that compared to out all men istry not that compared to out all men istry not that people don't get saved + 25 but the people don't get saved + 25 but the people don't get saved + 25 but the numbers are feeling fairly I think solid numbers are feeling fairly I think solid numbers are feeling fairly I think solid in terms of giving us goods data when in terms of giving us goods data when in terms of giving us goods data when people come to Christ that fosters people come to Christ that fosters people come to Christ that fosters realize our okay I'm putting a lot of realize our okay I'm putting a lot of realize our okay I'm putting a lot of work in here on different age groups of work in here on different age groups of work in here on different age groups of where I'm getting fruit is their high where I'm getting fruit is their high where I'm getting fruit is their high school student generation University school student generation University school student generation University generation and children so then passes generation and children so then passes generation and children so then passes or switch don't begin to pour resources or switch don't begin to pour resources or switch don't begin to pour resources and it's the intentionality that I and it's the intentionality that I and it's the intentionality that I really try and work with pastors that

really try and work with pastors that really try and work with pastors that are low in this area get intentional get are low in this area get intentional get are low in this area get intentional get focused and you will bear fruit and some focused and you will bear fruit and some focused and you will bear fruit and some like in a country like Australia where like in a country like Australia where like in a country like Australia where it's a while it's kind of not a it's a while it's kind of not a it's a while it's kind of not a church-going population you can still church-going population you can still church-going population you can still win people to Christ but you have to be win people to Christ but you have to be win people to Christ but you have to be seriously intentional about it and keep seriously intentional about it and keep seriously intentional about it and keep it focused as the number one endeavor of it focused as the number one endeavor of it focused as the number one endeavor of your church it's not just you know I'm your church it's not just you know I'm your church it's not just you know I'm gonna have just a dozen people wandering gonna have just a dozen people wandering gonna have just a dozen people wandering to church on a Sunday because they're to church on a Sunday because they're to church on a Sunday because they're looking for a church to go to rad looking for a church to go to rad looking for a church to go to rad doesn't know now what about on the adult doesn't know now what about on the adult doesn't know now what about on the adult side are there things that you're seeing side are there things that you're seeing side are there things that you're seeing you know that that do seem to be I truly you know that that do seem to be I truly you know that that do seem to be I truly agree that there is this like you know agree that there is this like you know agree that there is this like you know in some ways it's like we work to try to in some ways it's like we work to try to in some ways it's like we work to try to reach kids before say they're 20 and reach kids before say they're 20 and reach kids before say they're 20 and then we spend the next 40 50 years you then we spend the next 40 50 years you then we spend the next 40 50 years you know trying to you know reach all the know trying to you know reach all the know trying to you know reach all the people who we don't reach when they were people who we don't reach when they were people who we don't reach when they were kids and there's you know it takes a lot kids and there's you know it takes a lot kids and there's you know it takes a lot of time and energy what are some of of time and energy what are some of of time and energy what are some of those things that are working on the those things that are working on the those things that are working on the adult side or you're seeing God use on adult side or you're seeing God use on adult side or you're seeing God use on the adult side yeah this is a great the adult side yeah this is a great the adult side yeah this is a great program called messy Church program called messy Church program called messy Church which comes out of England which is which comes out of England which is which comes out of England which is basically a 45-minute service for the basically a 45-minute service for the basically a 45-minute service for the entire family and it's particularly entire family and it's particularly entire family and it's particularly aimed at unchurched families where mum aimed at unchurched families where mum aimed at unchurched families where mum and dad come with their children after and dad come with their children after and dad come with their children after 45 minutes have a mini church service 45 minutes have a mini church service 45 minutes have a mini church service and then sing a couple of songs doing and then sing a couple of songs doing and then sing a couple of songs doing offering a bit of activity that's a offering a bit of activity that's a offering a bit of activity that's a family activity that involves mum and family activity that involves mum and family activity that involves mum and dad and the children and then have a dad and the children and then have a dad and the children and then have a short sermon then have coffee in short sermon then have coffee in short sermon then have coffee in connection and people have been wonder connection and people have been wonder connection and people have been wonder Christ through messy church across Christ through messy church across Christ through messy church across Australia cough that's been moved more Australia cough that's been moved more Australia cough that's been moved more in Salvation Army or an Anglican circles in Salvation Army or an Anglican circles in Salvation Army or an Anglican circles where that concerts been used was

where that concerts been used was where that concerts been used was definitely berenson fruit recovering definitely berenson fruit recovering definitely berenson fruit recovering type programs as a wonderful couple here type programs as a wonderful couple here type programs as a wonderful couple here LMAO and his wife helen run a great LMAO and his wife helen run a great LMAO and his wife helen run a great program called life keys careful's life program called life keys careful's life program called life keys careful's life it's in australia that has brilliant it's in australia that has brilliant it's in australia that has brilliant recovery time seminars and courses thank recovery time seminars and courses thank recovery time seminars and courses thank you for tuning in to this week's unseren you for tuning in to this week's unseren you for tuning in to this week's unseren airy podcast don't be shy we'd love to airy podcast don't be shy we'd love to airy podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unset Maneri inbox you connect check out unset Maneri inbox you connect check out unset Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy calm and can sign up at unsummon airy calm and can sign up at unsummon airy calm and wilson you helpful training resources wilson you helpful training resources wilson you helpful training resources every week blossom you'll gain immediate every week blossom you'll gain immediate every week blossom you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich and unset birch or through email rich and unset birch or through email rich and unset maneri calm don't forget to check out maneri calm don't forget to check out maneri calm don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset the show notes for this episode at unset the show notes for this episode at unset maneri maneri maneri it includes links to what we talked it includes links to what we talked it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment you about today and more leave a comment you about today and more leave a comment you love to hear from you did you enjoy Jays love to hear from you did you enjoy Jays love to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up show throughout my itunes and leave a up show throughout my itunes and leave a up show throughout my itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to this week's party seminary podcast join this week's party seminary podcast join this week's party seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff us next week when we'll learn more stuff us next week when we'll learn more stuff as we wish they taught in seminary as we wish they taught in seminary as we wish they taught in seminary community meals so putting on meals in community meals so putting on meals in community meals so putting on meals in low socio-economic areas once a week low socio-economic areas once a week low socio-economic areas once a week bringing people in for a meal and then bringing people in for a meal and then bringing people in for a meal and then sharing the gospel through the meal so I sharing the gospel through the meal so I sharing the gospel through the meal so I know a friend of mine with the church in know a friend of mine with the church in know a friend of mine with the church in Sydney has seen Muslims wonder Christ Sydney has seen Muslims wonder Christ Sydney has seen Muslims wonder Christ through that program and my friend here through that program and my friend here through that program and my friend here in Perth is seen people wonder Christ as in Perth is seen people wonder Christ as in Perth is seen people wonder Christ as well through that programs but it is well through that programs but it is well through that programs but it is it's kind of a combination of that if it's kind of a combination of that if it's kind of a combination of that if you're like I guess that kind of helping

you're like I guess that kind of helping you're like I guess that kind of helping people sort of community meal Christmas people sort of community meal Christmas people sort of community meal Christmas hamper program right through to helping hamper program right through to helping hamper program right through to helping them with areas that they're wrestling them with areas that they're wrestling them with areas that they're wrestling with in problematic areas in their life with in problematic areas in their life with in problematic areas in their life right through to kind of like come to right through to kind of like come to right through to kind of like come to messy church it's kind of like the messy church it's kind of like the messy church it's kind of like the church that you think you'd like to go church that you think you'd like to go church that you think you'd like to go to with your kids there's a whole range to with your kids there's a whole range to with your kids there's a whole range of programs that I think of working of programs that I think of working of programs that I think of working Australia especially with adults very Australia especially with adults very Australia especially with adults very cool very cool why this has been amazing cool very cool why this has been amazing cool very cool why this has been amazing you know I this has been great you know you know I this has been great you know you know I this has been great you know so far really really appreciate it we're so far really really appreciate it we're so far really really appreciate it we're going to pivot a little bit i'm going to going to pivot a little bit i'm going to going to pivot a little bit i'm going to ask you you know John one of things I've ask you you know John one of things I've ask you you know John one of things I've appreciated about these interviews I'm appreciated about these interviews I'm appreciated about these interviews I'm going to ask you to speak with the going to ask you to speak with the going to ask you to speak with the prophetic voice as a leader you're a prophetic voice as a leader you're a prophetic voice as a leader you're a global leader who's you know it's made a global leader who's you know it's made a global leader who's you know it's made a lot of influence and you obviously know lot of influence and you obviously know lot of influence and you obviously know the American culture in some ways I the American culture in some ways I the American culture in some ways I think the leaders who are just outside think the leaders who are just outside think the leaders who are just outside of our culture outside of what happens of our culture outside of what happens of our culture outside of what happens here in the states in some ways maybe here in the states in some ways maybe here in the states in some ways maybe see her culture a little clearer and so see her culture a little clearer and so see her culture a little clearer and so I'd love for you to kind of speak to I'd love for you to kind of speak to I'd love for you to kind of speak to American you know church leaders the American you know church leaders the American you know church leaders the vast majority of people who listen to vast majority of people who listen to vast majority of people who listen to our podcast are you know serving the our podcast are you know serving the our podcast are you know serving the state's what would you say as someone state's what would you say as someone state's what would you say as someone who's leading in a community where less who's leading in a community where less who's leading in a community where less than ten percent attend church on a than ten percent attend church on a than ten percent attend church on a regular basis I think in a lot of ways regular basis I think in a lot of ways regular basis I think in a lot of ways our culture is shifting to a really a our culture is shifting to a really a our culture is shifting to a really a post you know post Christian culture as post you know post Christian culture as post you know post Christian culture as well if it's not there already what well if it's not there already what well if it's not there already what would you say you know to church leaders would you say you know to church leaders would you say you know to church leaders what should we be thinking about yes so what should we be thinking about yes so what should we be thinking about yes so probably a few thoughts on that which probably a few thoughts on that which probably a few thoughts on that which one would be lead from the front be one would be lead from the front be one would be lead from the front be authentic you can't get away with I'm authentic you can't get away with I'm authentic you can't get away with I'm the past just do what I say you know the past just do what I say you know the past just do what I say you know what I'm doing right what I'm doing right what I'm doing right have to be real it's got to be real and have to be real it's got to be real and have to be real it's got to be real and relevant you have to have your own relevant you have to have your own relevant you have to have your own stories of trying to delete some of the

stories of trying to delete some of the stories of trying to delete some of the Christ trying to move ight and on Christ trying to move ight and on Christ trying to move ight and on Christian try to build a non-christian Christian try to build a non-christian Christian try to build a non-christian friendship but also don't be afraid to friendship but also don't be afraid to friendship but also don't be afraid to put your failures up there you know I put your failures up there you know I put your failures up there you know I remembered standing in my foyer my remembered standing in my foyer my remembered standing in my foyer my church waiting for a friend of mine to church waiting for a friend of mine to church waiting for a friend of mine to turn up they said they were coming and turn up they said they were coming and turn up they said they were coming and then didn't turn up you know like oh no then didn't turn up you know like oh no then didn't turn up you know like oh no okay this is what it feels like and you okay this is what it feels like and you okay this is what it feels like and you got a lead from the front I I think also got a lead from the front I I think also got a lead from the front I I think also lead with pray seek the Lord allow the lead with pray seek the Lord allow the lead with pray seek the Lord allow the Lord to to break your own heart about Lord to to break your own heart about Lord to to break your own heart about the condition of lost people and lost the condition of lost people and lost the condition of lost people and lost people in the community and let that people in the community and let that people in the community and let that prayer let that sense of encounter with prayer let that sense of encounter with prayer let that sense of encounter with God about about people who don't know God about about people who don't know God about about people who don't know Christ let it bleed into your preaching Christ let it bleed into your preaching Christ let it bleed into your preaching let it kind of weave its way you do your let it kind of weave its way you do your let it kind of weave its way you do your preaching that that through your preaching that that through your preaching that that through your preaching there comes as this kind of preaching there comes as this kind of preaching there comes as this kind of woven theme that is not always woven theme that is not always woven theme that is not always intentional but it's coming out of your intentional but it's coming out of your intentional but it's coming out of your heart and spirit of the necessity of our heart and spirit of the necessity of our heart and spirit of the necessity of our church being an hour would focus church church being an hour would focus church church being an hour would focus church an outward-looking church reaching an outward-looking church reaching an outward-looking church reaching people from Christ sure well Shepherd people from Christ sure well Shepherd people from Christ sure well Shepherd and disciple everyone here but but our and disciple everyone here but but our and disciple everyone here but but our number one deal is to go and make number one deal is to go and make number one deal is to go and make disciples through our community and I disciples through our community and I disciples through our community and I think probably a third thing is really think probably a third thing is really think probably a third thing is really analyze your community and its needs and analyze your community and its needs and analyze your community and its needs and align your church's resources with the align your church's resources with the align your church's resources with the needs so even some things I'll say two needs so even some things I'll say two needs so even some things I'll say two passes in Australia is go down to your passes in Australia is go down to your passes in Australia is go down to your your local cafe your local coffee shop your local cafe your local coffee shop your local cafe your local coffee shop have a look at the de corps there or go have a look at the de corps there or go have a look at the de corps there or go down to a restaurant cafe that people down to a restaurant cafe that people down to a restaurant cafe that people really like being around and then go really like being around and then go really like being around and then go back to your own building and maybe

back to your own building and maybe back to your own building and maybe maybe change the paint color maybe maybe change the paint color maybe maybe change the paint color maybe change some of the day feel maybe just change some of the day feel maybe just change some of the day feel maybe just align your building with favorite kind align your building with favorite kind align your building with favorite kind of places that people like to hang out of places that people like to hang out of places that people like to hang out in your community so oh that may be in your community so oh that may be in your community so oh that may be harder in certain styles and buildings harder in certain styles and buildings harder in certain styles and buildings and styles of church but I think if and styles of church but I think if and styles of church but I think if you've got the option to kind of change you've got the option to kind of change you've got the option to kind of change the day core the colors and the seating the day core the colors and the seating the day core the colors and the seating the feel of your foyer the whole feel of the feel of your foyer the whole feel of the feel of your foyer the whole feel of your building align it where people like your building align it where people like your building align it where people like to go in your community so you reduce to go in your community so you reduce to go in your community so you reduce the gap the gap the gap twin unity in between your church and I twin unity in between your church and I twin unity in between your church and I think that's one of the very simple think that's one of the very simple think that's one of the very simple pragmatic ways to analyze you what it pragmatic ways to analyze you what it pragmatic ways to analyze you what it wants and then grab your church's wants and then grab your church's wants and then grab your church's resource and say where can we meet and resource and say where can we meet and resource and say where can we meet and the we can we connect with our community the we can we connect with our community the we can we connect with our community um and actually an illustrated part of um and actually an illustrated part of um and actually an illustrated part of the consulting I do is is having a look the consulting I do is is having a look the consulting I do is is having a look at church buildings and saying okay past at church buildings and saying okay past at church buildings and saying okay past the walls are all beige so obviously a the walls are all beige so obviously a the walls are all beige so obviously a committee decided on this color when did committee decided on this color when did committee decided on this color when did you get a local favorite cafe near look you get a local favorite cafe near look you get a local favorite cafe near look at the colors put those colors on your at the colors put those colors on your at the colors put those colors on your wall that's a great tactic i love that wall that's a great tactic i love that wall that's a great tactic i love that that's cool yeah yeah and don't and that's cool yeah yeah and don't and that's cool yeah yeah and don't and don't tell your church you need a don't tell your church you need a don't tell your church you need a committee to for color choice just get a committee to for color choice just get a committee to for color choice just get a color consultant tell them to tell you color consultant tell them to tell you color consultant tell them to tell you the colors pick yourself up off the the colors pick yourself up off the the colors pick yourself up off the floor and then begin to paint get it and floor and then begin to paint get it and floor and then begin to paint get it and i love that a great way to i love the i love that a great way to i love the i love that a great way to i love the the real community oriented approach to the real community oriented approach to the real community oriented approach to that like hey let's just figure out what that like hey let's just figure out what that like hey let's just figure out what the you know most popular place in town the you know most popular place in town the you know most popular place in town is go there and let's try to make our is go there and let's try to make our is go there and let's try to make our space look like that that's a great idea space look like that that's a great idea space look like that that's a great idea love that very cool yeah do you think of

love that very cool yeah do you think of love that very cool yeah do you think of the cafe a new area you like to go to the cafe a new area you like to go to the cafe a new area you like to go to get your coffee if it's too weird get your coffee if it's too weird get your coffee if it's too weird comparative linked to your church or it comparative linked to your church or it comparative linked to your church or it should change it so strange compared to should change it so strange compared to should change it so strange compared to it people going on okay this is it people going on okay this is it people going on okay this is different and church is weird enough different and church is weird enough different and church is weird enough without making stuff that we can change without making stuff that we can change without making stuff that we can change to different very cool well John I to different very cool well John I to different very cool well John I really appreciate this today if people really appreciate this today if people really appreciate this today if people want to get in touch with you in or with want to get in touch with you in or with want to get in touch with you in or with grow a healthy Church how can they do grow a healthy Church how can they do grow a healthy Church how can they do that yeah look at website grow a healthy that yeah look at website grow a healthy that yeah look at website grow a healthy Church calm my blog there every week Church calm my blog there every week Church calm my blog there every week we've got resources available there free we've got resources available there free we've got resources available there free resources and training and all sorts of resources and training and all sorts of resources and training and all sorts of wonderful things there on our website wonderful things there on our website wonderful things there on our website grow healthy Church calm find me there grow healthy Church calm find me there grow healthy Church calm find me there or look me up on facebook twitter or or look me up on facebook twitter or or look me up on facebook twitter or instagram all the more all over the instagram all the more all over the instagram all the more all over the place richland try and get out there as place richland try and get out there as place richland try and get out there as much as i can now I appreciate that i much as i can now I appreciate that i much as i can now I appreciate that i would strongly recommend if you listen would strongly recommend if you listen would strongly recommend if you listen to the podcast you really should be to the podcast you really should be to the podcast you really should be following John as well he does a great following John as well he does a great following John as well he does a great job great great resources whether you're job great great resources whether you're job great great resources whether you're in Australia or anywhere else in the in Australia or anywhere else in the in Australia or anywhere else in the world you really should plug in to him world you really should plug in to him world you really should plug in to him John thanks so much for being on the John thanks so much for being on the John thanks so much for being on the show today my pleasure Ridge links for show today my pleasure Ridge links for show today my pleasure Ridge links for them them them thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncen re inbox you to connect check out uncen re inbox you to connect check out uncen re inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on Twitter add rich connect with rich on Twitter add rich connect with rich on Twitter add rich birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon airy calm don't forget to check out the airy calm don't forget to check out the airy calm don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset

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