Art Rainer on the The Money Challenge at Your Church

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this week's on seminary podcast hi this week's on seminary podcast hi this week's on seminary podcast hi everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy podcast when it's rich the hosts around podcast when it's rich the hosts around podcast when it's rich the hosts around these parts so glad that you've decided these parts so glad that you've decided these parts so glad that you've decided to tune in today and to spend some time to tune in today and to spend some time to tune in today and to spend some time with us we know you've got a lot going with us we know you've got a lot going with us we know you've got a lot going on at your church and we're just honored on at your church and we're just honored on at your church and we're just honored that you would take some time out today that you would take some time out today that you would take some time out today popping your earbuds maybe while you're popping your earbuds maybe while you're popping your earbuds maybe while you're out running or you know cutting old out running or you know cutting old out running or you know cutting old grass or something like that we're just grass or something like that we're just grass or something like that we're just honored that you would be with us today honored that you would be with us today honored that you would be with us today today I've been looking forward this today I've been looking forward this today I've been looking forward this interview for awhile we've got our interview for awhile we've got our interview for awhile we've got our trainer with us he's currently the VP of trainer with us he's currently the VP of trainer with us he's currently the VP of institutional advancement the South institutional advancement the South institutional advancement the South Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary that is a very fancy title before that that is a very fancy title before that that is a very fancy title before that it was administrative pastor with Jimmy it was administrative pastor with Jimmy it was administrative pastor with Jimmy Scoggins down just a little farther Scoggins down just a little farther Scoggins down just a little farther south and so we're just so glad to have south and so we're just so glad to have south and so we're just so glad to have you on the show today art hey rich thank you on the show today art hey rich thank you on the show today art hey rich thank you so much for having me I really you so much for having me I really you so much for having me I really appreciate it no I really so glad to appreciate it no I really so glad to appreciate it no I really so glad to have you here one of things I love about have you here one of things I love about have you here one of things I love about you are you've read some wrote some you are you've read some wrote some you are you've read some wrote some great books that I the thing I love great books that I the thing I love great books that I the thing I love about it is your which I think our about it is your which I think our about it is your which I think our listeners will love is just super listeners will love is just super listeners will love is just super practical applicable stuff that you can practical applicable stuff that you can practical applicable stuff that you can pick up and say hey let's you know make pick up and say hey let's you know make pick up and say hey let's you know make a difference in here we're going to talk a difference in here we're going to talk a difference in here we're going to talk a little bit today about your most a little bit today about your most a little bit today about your most recent book called the money challenge recent book called the money challenge recent book called the money challenge which is obvious in the title what it's which is obvious in the title what it's which is obvious in the title what it's about which is which is wonderful it's about which is which is wonderful it's about which is which is wonderful it's about the money challenge that that's about the money challenge that that's about the money challenge that that's right nice before we get to there why right nice before we get to there why right nice before we get to there why don't you tell us a little bit about don't you tell us a little bit about don't you tell us a little bit about your current role tell us about you know your current role tell us about you know your current role tell us about you know what's going on at Southeastern these what's going on at Southeastern these what's going on at Southeastern these days and God has got us doing great days and God has got us doing great days and God has got us doing great things here so as you mentioned my role

things here so as you mentioned my role things here so as you mentioned my role here as vice president for institutional here as vice president for institutional here as vice president for institutional advancement I'm that covers a number of advancement I'm that covers a number of advancement I'm that covers a number of different areas here at the school from different areas here at the school from different areas here at the school from financial development Alumni Relations financial development Alumni Relations financial development Alumni Relations enrollment so getting the students here enrollment so getting the students here enrollment so getting the students here and then hopefully keeping them here and then hopefully keeping them here and then hopefully keeping them here through through graduation we don't want through through graduation we don't want through through graduation we don't want them just to show up on campus we them just to show up on campus we them just to show up on campus we actually want them to walk away with a a actually want them to walk away with a a actually want them to walk away with a a plumber our certificate services is a plumber our certificate services is a plumber our certificate services is a part of it our marketing and part of it our marketing and part of it our marketing and communications department is a part of communications department is a part of communications department is a part of it so fortunately I have I have a great it so fortunately I have I have a great it so fortunately I have I have a great team that I get to work with so I'm not team that I get to work with so I'm not team that I get to work with so I'm not doing all of those things but by myself doing all of those things but by myself doing all of those things but by myself right that's great that's cool well right that's great that's cool well right that's great that's cool well let's talk a little bit about you know let's talk a little bit about you know let's talk a little bit about you know this book so obviously the money this book so obviously the money this book so obviously the money challenge it's a big challenge it's a big challenge it's a big you for you know for people who are you for you know for people who are you for you know for people who are attending churches for church leaders attending churches for church leaders attending churches for church leaders what was it that motivated you you know what was it that motivated you you know what was it that motivated you you know to write this book from your perspective to write this book from your perspective to write this book from your perspective both you know as the previous you know both you know as the previous you know both you know as the previous you know someone who's working at a local church someone who's working at a local church someone who's working at a local church but then also serving a lot of leaders but then also serving a lot of leaders but then also serving a lot of leaders what was it that kind of got you to say what was it that kind of got you to say what was it that kind of got you to say I think we need to craft a book on this I think we need to craft a book on this I think we need to craft a book on this well so the my passion for for personal well so the my passion for for personal well so the my passion for for personal finances has been around for a long time finances has been around for a long time finances has been around for a long time in fact when I graduated from college I in fact when I graduated from college I in fact when I graduated from college I graduated with a bachelor's in finance I graduated with a bachelor's in finance I graduated with a bachelor's in finance I immediately went into the banking world immediately went into the banking world immediately went into the banking world my my initial goal out of college was to my my initial goal out of college was to my my initial goal out of college was to be a CFP or a certified financial be a CFP or a certified financial be a CFP or a certified financial planner and so I set myself on that planner and so I set myself on that planner and so I set myself on that trajectory I got my my MBA at the trajectory I got my my MBA at the trajectory I got my my MBA at the University of Kentucky go go cats uh and University of Kentucky go go cats uh and University of Kentucky go go cats uh and and I thought that that was what God had and I thought that that was what God had and I thought that that was what God had had for me because I loved it and I was had for me because I loved it and I was had for me because I loved it and I was in the banking world for about four

in the banking world for about four in the banking world for about four years they do I won't go into all the years they do I won't go into all the years they do I won't go into all the details it through a variety of ways details it through a variety of ways details it through a variety of ways that guide kind of revealed in my heart that guide kind of revealed in my heart that guide kind of revealed in my heart that doesn't just not what he had in that doesn't just not what he had in that doesn't just not what he had in store for me I eventually went on staff store for me I eventually went on staff store for me I eventually went on staff full time with with family church full time with with family church full time with with family church downtown West Palm Beach as you downtown West Palm Beach as you downtown West Palm Beach as you mentioned the pastor was Jim's Croghan mentioned the pastor was Jim's Croghan mentioned the pastor was Jim's Croghan and it was there to help him and help and it was there to help him and help and it was there to help him and help that church through a very difficult that church through a very difficult that church through a very difficult financial time even while I was there financial time even while I was there financial time even while I was there though I worked with individuals who though I worked with individuals who though I worked with individuals who were struggling in their in their were struggling in their in their were struggling in their in their finances I would work with the finances I would work with the finances I would work with the premarital counseling groups to help premarital counseling groups to help premarital counseling groups to help them understand how they need to be them understand how they need to be them understand how they need to be unified in their in their finances and unified in their in their finances and unified in their in their finances and so that my love and passion for for so that my love and passion for for so that my love and passion for for personal finance has been there for a personal finance has been there for a personal finance has been there for a while and I have story after story after while and I have story after story after while and I have story after story after story people who are just they fit the story people who are just they fit the story people who are just they fit the statistics that we hear right right now statistics that we hear right right now statistics that we hear right right now in the u.s. we're actually at all-time in the u.s. we're actually at all-time in the u.s. we're actually at all-time highs as it relates to consumer debt so highs as it relates to consumer debt so highs as it relates to consumer debt so if you if you have credit card debt it's if you if you have credit card debt it's if you if you have credit card debt it's likely that you have around sixteen likely that you have around sixteen likely that you have around sixteen thousand dollars in credit card debt and thousand dollars in credit card debt and thousand dollars in credit card debt and that's that that is an absolute you can that's that that is an absolute you can that's that that is an absolute you can create havoc in your inner life and create havoc in your inner life and create havoc in your inner life and great havoc great havoc great havoc your marriages and so it in those in the your marriages and so it in those in the your marriages and so it in those in the church are not immune to to that reality church are not immune to to that reality church are not immune to to that reality they're very there's a number of them

they're very there's a number of them they're very there's a number of them that are part of that those statistics that are part of that those statistics that are part of that those statistics and so my passion is to see people get and so my passion is to see people get and so my passion is to see people get financially healthy but I want to be financially healthy but I want to be financially healthy but I want to be very clear not for the sake of financial very clear not for the sake of financial very clear not for the sake of financial health because when we are financially health because when we are financially health because when we are financially unhealthy we're really missing out on unhealthy we're really missing out on unhealthy we're really missing out on God's design for us and for our our God's design for us and for our our God's design for us and for our our money to God designed us not to be money to God designed us not to be money to God designed us not to be hoarders not to hold everything together hoarders not to hold everything together hoarders not to hold everything together or to hold on to it with the tight fist or to hold on to it with the tight fist or to hold on to it with the tight fist but to be conduits through which his but to be conduits through which his but to be conduits through which his generosity flows and so generosity is generosity flows and so generosity is generosity flows and so generosity is the foundation upon which financial the foundation upon which financial the foundation upon which financial health is to is to be built so financial health is to is to be built so financial health is to is to be built so financial help when I talk about want to talk help when I talk about want to talk help when I talk about want to talk about it I look at it more as a means to about it I look at it more as a means to about it I look at it more as a means to a much greater can right right very cool a much greater can right right very cool a much greater can right right very cool you know one of the things and I said you know one of the things and I said you know one of the things and I said and I've kind of embarrassing Lee and I've kind of embarrassing Lee and I've kind of embarrassing Lee admitted to other church leaders is you admitted to other church leaders is you admitted to other church leaders is you know the most consistent kind of change know the most consistent kind of change know the most consistent kind of change agent in our church over the years for agent in our church over the years for agent in our church over the years for seeing like predictable like okay God's seeing like predictable like okay God's seeing like predictable like okay God's going to work in that which is a little going to work in that which is a little going to work in that which is a little bit humbling has been Financial Peace bit humbling has been Financial Peace bit humbling has been Financial Peace University Dave Ramsey's funny hat University Dave Ramsey's funny hat University Dave Ramsey's funny hat please yes University and it was please yes University and it was please yes University and it was interesting having we've sent you know interesting having we've sent you know interesting having we've sent you know hundreds and hundreds of people through hundreds and hundreds of people through hundreds and hundreds of people through FPU and and the interesting thing about FPU and and the interesting thing about FPU and and the interesting thing about it and it to be honest I got to be it and it to be honest I got to be it and it to be honest I got to be honest I we originally so I bought into honest I we originally so I bought into honest I we originally so I bought into the idea of okay yes we do this because the idea of okay yes we do this because the idea of okay yes we do this because we want something for people not from we want something for people not from we want something for people not from people we want to help them get their people we want to help them get their people we want to help them get their finances sorted out we don't want to finances sorted out we don't want to finances sorted out we don't want to just always harp on like you should be just always harp on like you should be just always harp on like you should be generous therefore give to us but the

generous therefore give to us but the generous therefore give to us but the interesting thing that happened which is interesting thing that happened which is interesting thing that happened which is a part of what I love about your book a part of what I love about your book a part of what I love about your book the interesting thing to happen is as the interesting thing to happen is as the interesting thing to happen is as people in their relationships as they people in their relationships as they people in their relationships as they you know as a husband and wife really a you know as a husband and wife really a you know as a husband and wife really a lot of times for the first time sat down lot of times for the first time sat down lot of times for the first time sat down and say what how does our money work and say what how does our money work and say what how does our money work what is this what does this mean for us what is this what does this mean for us what is this what does this mean for us it was amazing to see how God stepped in it was amazing to see how God stepped in it was amazing to see how God stepped in and and did some amazing work in so many and and did some amazing work in so many and and did some amazing work in so many relationships over the years through relationships over the years through relationships over the years through that process so the thing I love about that process so the thing I love about that process so the thing I love about your book it's really not just one your book it's really not just one your book it's really not just one challenge it's really a collection of challenge it's really a collection of challenge it's really a collection of you know of challenges that all kind of you know of challenges that all kind of you know of challenges that all kind of add up to one piece that why do we can add up to one piece that why do we can add up to one piece that why do we can we pick apart a couple of those maybe we pick apart a couple of those maybe we pick apart a couple of those maybe you could kind of you could kind of you could kind of walk us through some of the the walk us through some of the the walk us through some of the the challenges that people have yeah so the challenges that people have yeah so the challenges that people have yeah so the book was crafted with I say John John book was crafted with I say John John book was crafted with I say John John Smith ad whatever Church USA I was just Smith ad whatever Church USA I was just Smith ad whatever Church USA I was just thinking when I was writing the book I thinking when I was writing the book I thinking when I was writing the book I was thinking first of all the number of was thinking first of all the number of was thinking first of all the number of stories and the number of people that I stories and the number of people that I stories and the number of people that I knew that were struggling with their knew that were struggling with their knew that were struggling with their with their finances and was also with their finances and was also with their finances and was also thinking how could it how could we craft thinking how could it how could we craft thinking how could it how could we craft a book that appeal to the typical person a book that appeal to the typical person a book that appeal to the typical person in the church that is not only in the church that is not only in the church that is not only struggling with their with their struggling with their with their struggling with their with their finances struggling with their with finances struggling with their with finances struggling with their with their generosity but have absolutely no their generosity but have absolutely no their generosity but have absolutely no desire to read a book on on money and so desire to read a book on on money and so desire to read a book on on money and so one of the unique pieces of the book is one of the unique pieces of the book is one of the unique pieces of the book is that each chapter starts with a that each chapter starts with a that each chapter starts with a fictitional story we follow a lady a fictitional story we follow a lady a fictitional story we follow a lady a recent college graduate who is burdened recent college graduate who is burdened recent college graduate who is burdened with student loan credit card card debt with student loan credit card card debt with student loan credit card card debt throughout the book for so at the

throughout the book for so at the throughout the book for so at the beginning of each chapter we follow her beginning of each chapter we follow her beginning of each chapter we follow her story as she tries to discover God's story as she tries to discover God's story as she tries to discover God's design for her and and her money and design for her and and her money and design for her and and her money and then after we look at her story we then after we look at her story we then after we look at her story we started we started talking about some of started we started talking about some of started we started talking about some of the biblical principles that that we the biblical principles that that we the biblical principles that that we find as it relates to our to our find as it relates to our to our find as it relates to our to our finances and the practical implications finances and the practical implications finances and the practical implications for for us then of course as you alluded for for us then of course as you alluded for for us then of course as you alluded to we have our money challenges which to we have our money challenges which to we have our money challenges which are initially directed toward Annie but are initially directed toward Annie but are initially directed toward Annie but then you learn they're also your money then you learn they're also your money then you learn they're also your money money money challenges now some of them money money challenges now some of them money money challenges now some of them are financial you would expect that you are financial you would expect that you are financial you would expect that you need to set up your IRA account you need need to set up your IRA account you need need to set up your IRA account you need to to test the waters with as it relates to to test the waters with as it relates to to test the waters with as it relates to giving giving to your church maybe to giving giving to your church maybe to giving giving to your church maybe set up at your online on your online set up at your online on your online set up at your online on your online online giving that some of them have online giving that some of them have online giving that some of them have absolutely nothing to do necessarily absolutely nothing to do necessarily absolutely nothing to do necessarily finances because we know that generosity finances because we know that generosity finances because we know that generosity is not just about money it's a it's a is not just about money it's a it's a is not just about money it's a it's a lifestyle right God God desires a dark lifestyle right God God desires a dark lifestyle right God God desires a dark desires us to be generous not just with desires us to be generous not just with desires us to be generous not just with our money with everything that we have our money with everything that we have our money with everything that we have so some of the some of some of the so some of the some of some of the so some of the some of some of the challenges are pretty simple let's challenges are pretty simple let's challenges are pretty simple let's somebody somebody in front of you in somebody somebody in front of you in somebody somebody in front of you in line that's all that you have to do that line that's all that you have to do that line that's all that you have to do that day read this passage of Scripture put day read this passage of Scripture put day read this passage of Scripture put this scripture on the mirror of on your this scripture on the mirror of on your this scripture on the mirror of on your bathroom mirror so that you can see it bathroom mirror so that you can see it bathroom mirror so that you can see it every day so some of them are at they every day so some of them are at they every day so some of them are at they have they have to do with money but some have they have to do with money but some have they have to do with money but some of them absolutely do not that they all of them absolutely do not that they all of them absolutely do not that they all have to do with the the generous have to do with the the generous have to do with the the generous lifestyle that God has designed us to lifestyle that God has designed us to lifestyle that God has designed us to live yeah that's part of what I love

live yeah that's part of what I love live yeah that's part of what I love about this book I'm assuming you know as about this book I'm assuming you know as about this book I'm assuming you know as I was kind of looking through it one of I was kind of looking through it one of I was kind of looking through it one of the things that struck me is this would the things that struck me is this would the things that struck me is this would be a great tool for churches to give to be a great tool for churches to give to be a great tool for churches to give to people that like you know this could be people that like you know this could be people that like you know this could be if you had a maybe as a gift it's a if you had a maybe as a gift it's a if you had a maybe as a gift it's a first-time donors or maybe the kind of first-time donors or maybe the kind of first-time donors or maybe the kind of thing that you know you're gathering a thing that you know you're gathering a thing that you know you're gathering a group of leaders together to talk about group of leaders together to talk about group of leaders together to talk about you know a number of different items and you know a number of different items and you know a number of different items and one of the things you're going to talk one of the things you're going to talk one of the things you're going to talk about is finances and this could be you about is finances and this could be you about is finances and this could be you know the kind of thing you could give to know the kind of thing you could give to know the kind of thing you could give to them I'm assuming that's the kind of them I'm assuming that's the kind of them I'm assuming that's the kind of thing you're thinking about with this thing you're thinking about with this thing you're thinking about with this with this bit absolutely of course it's with this bit absolutely of course it's with this bit absolutely of course it's great just for an individual to go great just for an individual to go great just for an individual to go through it and to read through that it's through it and to read through that it's through it and to read through that it's also set up really well for for small also set up really well for for small also set up really well for for small groups or Sunday school every whatever groups or Sunday school every whatever groups or Sunday school every whatever your your structure may be there at your your your structure may be there at your your your structure may be there at your at your church and in fact you can get a at your church and in fact you can get a at your church and in fact you can get a box of 20 books for $100 so crazy that box of 20 books for $100 so crazy that box of 20 books for $100 so crazy that that pushes the price point down to five that pushes the price point down to five that pushes the price point down to five dollars a book and that's very dollars a book and that's very dollars a book and that's very intentional we want pastors to be able intentional we want pastors to be able intentional we want pastors to be able to access the book and to share it with to access the book and to share it with to access the book and to share it with their their congregation because we their their congregation because we their their congregation because we believe that it can make a difference believe that it can make a difference believe that it can make a difference and in that their congregations lives and in that their congregations lives and in that their congregations lives and in hopefully in the church in and in hopefully in the church in and in hopefully in the church in general and so they're able to do that general and so they're able to do that general and so they're able to do that and then of course it's set up also in a and then of course it's set up also in a and then of course it's set up also in a way where if you want to do some type of way where if you want to do some type of way where if you want to do some type of special emphasis it's a good book to to special emphasis it's a good book to to special emphasis it's a good book to to use for for those types of emphasis as use for for those types of emphasis as use for for those types of emphasis as well nice now is the book identifies well nice now is the book identifies well nice now is the book identifies four different generosity killers is how four different generosity killers is how four different generosity killers is how you kind of describe them can we talk you kind of describe them can we talk you kind of describe them can we talk through those and what you know what are through those and what you know what are through those and what you know what are those that are you know that detract you

those that are you know that detract you those that are you know that detract you know from people's generosity yeah the know from people's generosity yeah the know from people's generosity yeah the ones that I see consistently are one ones that I see consistently are one ones that I see consistently are one keeping up with the Joneses so all of keeping up with the Joneses so all of keeping up with the Joneses so all of that means that you have those around that means that you have those around that means that you have those around you and you see that you're trying to you and you see that you're trying to you and you see that you're trying to keep up with their lifestyle even if keep up with their lifestyle even if keep up with their lifestyle even if your finances aren't aren't necessarily your finances aren't aren't necessarily your finances aren't aren't necessarily able to now here's what's different for able to now here's what's different for able to now here's what's different for our generation I would say our our generation I would say our our generation I would say our generation not necessarily during the generation not necessarily during the generation not necessarily during the Millennials the Gen X Millennials the Gen X Millennials the Gen X just where we are right now is that just where we are right now is that just where we are right now is that we're in this digital age and so we're in this digital age and so we're in this digital age and so historically when you say keeping up historically when you say keeping up historically when you say keeping up with the Joneses that means you're with the Joneses that means you're with the Joneses that means you're looking over to your your neighbor on looking over to your your neighbor on looking over to your your neighbor on the left and over on the right see what the left and over on the right see what the left and over on the right see what cars they have and you're just trying to cars they have and you're just trying to cars they have and you're just trying to keep up with them well that has expanded keep up with them well that has expanded keep up with them well that has expanded exponentially absolute ones' or now all exponentially absolute ones' or now all exponentially absolute ones' or now all of your Facebook friends right you're of your Facebook friends right you're of your Facebook friends right you're looking at what they're posting the the looking at what they're posting the the looking at what they're posting the the ideal world that they're posting on on ideal world that they're posting on on ideal world that they're posting on on their Facebook page and so now you're their Facebook page and so now you're their Facebook page and so now you're trying to keep up with with them so trying to keep up with with them so trying to keep up with with them so Trump so that that has been that's a Trump so that that has been that's a Trump so that that has been that's a tremendous generosity I think that that tremendous generosity I think that that tremendous generosity I think that that could be one of the reasons why we could be one of the reasons why we could be one of the reasons why we continue to see debt rise at the the continue to see debt rise at the the continue to see debt rise at the the rates that we see it so number two is rates that we see it so number two is rates that we see it so number two is debt that's a very common generosity debt that's a very common generosity debt that's a very common generosity killer you are obligated to pay your killer you are obligated to pay your killer you are obligated to pay your bills right so if you if you have if you bills right so if you if you have if you bills right so if you if you have if you take out your mortgage which I know most take out your mortgage which I know most take out your mortgage which I know most of us most of us have one but you're of us most of us have one but you're of us most of us have one but you're going to have to pay the bank if you going to have to pay the bank if you going to have to pay the bank if you take out a some credit card debt and you take out a some credit card debt and you take out a some credit card debt and you you want to purchase furniture that you want to purchase furniture that you want to purchase furniture that maybe you can't afford right right now maybe you can't afford right right now maybe you can't afford right right now well you're going to have to pay on that well you're going to have to pay on that well you're going to have to pay on that for a good good time especially as

for a good good time especially as for a good good time especially as interest rates are pretty ridiculous on interest rates are pretty ridiculous on interest rates are pretty ridiculous on credit cards credit cards credit cards so debt hinders you from being able to so debt hinders you from being able to so debt hinders you from being able to be more free with your your money be more free with your your money be more free with your your money because you're obligated to pay your because you're obligated to pay your because you're obligated to pay your bills now on the debt piece you you had bills now on the debt piece you you had bills now on the debt piece you you had said earlier which so I'm glad to have said earlier which so I'm glad to have said earlier which so I'm glad to have you on because I was under the you on because I was under the you on because I was under the impression that consumer debt had impression that consumer debt had impression that consumer debt had actually gone down post the Great actually gone down post the Great actually gone down post the Great Recession but you said no actually it's Recession but you said no actually it's Recession but you said no actually it's actually a tie point ever are we heading actually a tie point ever are we heading actually a tie point ever are we heading back to this I well I spoke not yeah but back to this I well I spoke not yeah but back to this I well I spoke not yeah but we are at an all-time high so we did see we are at an all-time high so we did see we are at an all-time high so we did see a little bit of a dip post 2008 but now a little bit of a dip post 2008 but now a little bit of a dip post 2008 but now we're actually past 2008 so yes consumer we're actually past 2008 so yes consumer we're actually past 2008 so yes consumer debt has gone up the average household debt has gone up the average household debt has gone up the average household in the United States has around a 132 in the United States has around a 132 in the United States has around a 132 thousand dollars in debt now of course thousand dollars in debt now of course thousand dollars in debt now of course that includes all debts you're looking that includes all debts you're looking that includes all debts you're looking at mortgages car loans credit cards but at mortgages car loans credit cards but at mortgages car loans credit cards but that the credit card piece in general is that the credit card piece in general is that the credit card piece in general is the founding once again the air if you the founding once again the air if you the founding once again the air if you have credit card debt then you're you have credit card debt then you're you have credit card debt then you're you averaged around 16,000 student loan debt averaged around 16,000 student loan debt averaged around 16,000 student loan debt as we know is continues to to creep up as we know is continues to to creep up as we know is continues to to creep up if you for college graduates in if you for college graduates in if you for college graduates in 20:17 I believe the average was around 20:17 I believe the average was around 20:17 I believe the average was around thirty seven thousand dollars in student thirty seven thousand dollars in student thirty seven thousand dollars in student loan debt and that hinders them loan debt and that hinders them loan debt and that hinders them tremendously as they tried to find a job tremendously as they tried to find a job tremendously as they tried to find a job but try to to afford afford housing so but try to to afford afford housing so but try to to afford afford housing so they're faced with many many challenges they're faced with many many challenges they're faced with many many challenges that prior college graduates may weren't that prior college graduates may weren't that prior college graduates may weren't as as much so yes we are at an all-time

as as much so yes we are at an all-time as as much so yes we are at an all-time high as of right now that's scary high as of right now that's scary high as of right now that's scary yeah interesting I remember when I first yeah interesting I remember when I first yeah interesting I remember when I first got an administrator which was a decades got an administrator which was a decades got an administrator which was a decades ago we had there's a couple churches ago we had there's a couple churches ago we had there's a couple churches that I had talked with that wouldn't that I had talked with that wouldn't that I had talked with that wouldn't allow they wouldn't bring people onto allow they wouldn't bring people onto allow they wouldn't bring people onto their their staff who had still had debt their their staff who had still had debt their their staff who had still had debt from school they would like they just from school they would like they just from school they would like they just they wouldn't even hire them which I'm they wouldn't even hire them which I'm they wouldn't even hire them which I'm not even sure that that's a thing not even sure that that's a thing not even sure that that's a thing anymore I think I think that you know it anymore I think I think that you know it anymore I think I think that you know it would be difficult for a lot of you know would be difficult for a lot of you know would be difficult for a lot of you know to find people because so many people's to find people because so many people's to find people because so many people's right around they let that with them right around they let that with them right around they let that with them that's right that's right that's right well it if you're wanting to go into well it if you're wanting to go into well it if you're wanting to go into missions mm-hmm you cannot have for most missions mm-hmm you cannot have for most missions mm-hmm you cannot have for most missions or organizations you cannot missions or organizations you cannot missions or organizations you cannot have debt right for understandable have debt right for understandable have debt right for understandable reasons you actually want to pay it pay reasons you actually want to pay it pay reasons you actually want to pay it pay it off right so it is it's not only a it off right so it is it's not only a it off right so it is it's not only a generosity killer but it can cause generosity killer but it can cause generosity killer but it can cause you're calling on your life you have to you're calling on your life you have to you're calling on your life you have to put you have to put on pause for a while put you have to put on pause for a while put you have to put on pause for a while T pay off those those loans and those T pay off those those loans and those T pay off those those loans and those those debts absolutely okay so keep from those debts absolutely okay so keep from those debts absolutely okay so keep from the Joneses debt and there were dead the Joneses debt and there were dead the Joneses debt and there were dead whether what were the two other whether what were the two other whether what were the two other generosity killers right right so generosity killers right right so generosity killers right right so disorganization and this gets into the disorganization and this gets into the disorganization and this gets into the area that I know everybody hates to talk area that I know everybody hates to talk area that I know everybody hates to talk about but budgets you need a budget you about but budgets you need a budget you about but budgets you need a budget you need a you need a plan you need to know need a you need a plan you need to know need a you need a plan you need to know where you are in your finances so you where you are in your finances so you where you are in your finances so you need to know your financial reality and need to know your financial reality and need to know your financial reality and you need to have a plan on on how to get you need to have a plan on on how to get you need to have a plan on on how to get to where you want want to go so many to where you want want to go so many to where you want want to go so many people when you ask them well how does people when you ask them well how does people when you ask them well how does your how does your budget look at is your how does your budget look at is your how does your budget look at is your how do your expenditures look how your how do your expenditures look how your how do your expenditures look how do you make plans on what to buy and do you make plans on what to buy and do you make plans on what to buy and what not to buy often they say I don't what not to buy often they say I don't what not to buy often they say I don't know we just we just guess that's a

know we just we just guess that's a know we just we just guess that's a recipe for disaster right right there so recipe for disaster right right there so recipe for disaster right right there so this organization is a generosity killer this organization is a generosity killer this organization is a generosity killer because unfortunately what happens as it because unfortunately what happens as it because unfortunately what happens as it relates to to generosity I think this is relates to to generosity I think this is relates to to generosity I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings one of the biggest misunderstandings one of the biggest misunderstandings that we have at wit as relates to God that we have at wit as relates to God that we have at wit as relates to God designed for for our money is that designed for for our money is that designed for for our money is that generous generous generous to be is something that you do after all to be is something that you do after all to be is something that you do after all the bills are paid right it's a leftover the bills are paid right it's a leftover the bills are paid right it's a leftover yeah of course when we look at Scripture yeah of course when we look at Scripture yeah of course when we look at Scripture we see Jen it's a priority we look at we see Jen it's a priority we look at we see Jen it's a priority we look at God and how he gets to to us how he gave God and how he gets to to us how he gave God and how he gets to to us how he gave to us we see that it is a priority when to us we see that it is a priority when to us we see that it is a priority when he's giving his first and his best one he's giving his first and his best one he's giving his first and his best one and only only son so disorganisation and only only son so disorganisation and only only son so disorganisation causes or is a factor in generosity causes or is a factor in generosity causes or is a factor in generosity being a being a leftover and then being a being a leftover and then being a being a leftover and then finally a by a family or a marriage that finally a by a family or a marriage that finally a by a family or a marriage that is not unified in their their finances is not unified in their their finances is not unified in their their finances so a financially separate marriage the so a financially separate marriage the so a financially separate marriage the generosity killer what do you talk about generosity killer what do you talk about generosity killer what do you talk about that what is it we talk that through that what is it we talk that through that what is it we talk that through through you know I think particularly through you know I think particularly through you know I think particularly for for young leaders who are listening for for young leaders who are listening for for young leaders who are listening in you know they might have just fall in you know they might have just fall in you know they might have just fall into a scenario where like them and into a scenario where like them and into a scenario where like them and their wife maybe are just hey you keep their wife maybe are just hey you keep their wife maybe are just hey you keep you're going to you take care of these you're going to you take care of these you're going to you take care of these things I'll take care of the mortgage things I'll take care of the mortgage things I'll take care of the mortgage and then you know it's that that kind of and then you know it's that that kind of and then you know it's that that kind of thing you're saying ultimately reduces thing you're saying ultimately reduces thing you're saying ultimately reduces generosity well there's two things that generosity well there's two things that generosity well there's two things that can happen one because you're not on the can happen one because you're not on the can happen one because you're not on the same page because you're not pursuing same page because you're not pursuing same page because you're not pursuing the same goals then the impact is

the same goals then the impact is the same goals then the impact is diminished so you're spending over here diminished so you're spending over here diminished so you're spending over here your wife is spending over here you may your wife is spending over here you may your wife is spending over here you may want to give over here she may want to want to give over here she may want to want to give over here she may want to give over there or maybe not at all give over there or maybe not at all give over there or maybe not at all you're not on the same page and so your you're not on the same page and so your you're not on the same page and so your impact is greatly diminish so you have impact is greatly diminish so you have impact is greatly diminish so you have to get on the same page probably maybe to get on the same page probably maybe to get on the same page probably maybe more importantly as as we look at more importantly as as we look at more importantly as as we look at statistics we see over and over and over statistics we see over and over and over statistics we see over and over and over again that financial stress in a again that financial stress in a again that financial stress in a marriage is detrimental to two marriages marriage is detrimental to two marriages marriage is detrimental to two marriages it's frequently one of the top reasons it's frequently one of the top reasons it's frequently one of the top reasons why divorce couples by the way with why divorce couples by the way with why divorce couples by the way with their reporting why they why they get their reporting why they why they get their reporting why they why they get divorced and and we can see we can see divorced and and we can see we can see divorced and and we can see we can see why when you when you have a financially why when you when you have a financially why when you when you have a financially separate Mayor's when it's our my money separate Mayor's when it's our my money separate Mayor's when it's our my money and your money not our our money there and your money not our our money there and your money not our our money there it creates a divide yeah I have a story it creates a divide yeah I have a story it creates a divide yeah I have a story about not just that and I'll be quick about not just that and I'll be quick about not just that and I'll be quick with this with this sort of it as I was with this with this sort of it as I was with this with this sort of it as I was in when I was in the banking world in when I was in the banking world in when I was in the banking world working with a couple of my clients they working with a couple of my clients they working with a couple of my clients they were they were married they were wanting were they were married they were wanting were they were married they were wanting to take out a mortgage and I had to tell to take out a mortgage and I had to tell to take out a mortgage and I had to tell them that that mortgage would not be them that that mortgage would not be them that that mortgage would not be possible because of the debt that was possible because of the debt that was possible because of the debt that was showing up on their on the credit report showing up on their on the credit report showing up on their on the credit report unfortunately it's not a it's not an unfortunately it's not a it's not an unfortunately it's not a it's not an uncommon conversation that that happens uncommon conversation that that happens uncommon conversation that that happens in in banks but what I did was I started in in banks but what I did was I started in in banks but what I did was I started walking them through the debt that I saw walking them through the debt that I saw walking them through the debt that I saw on the credit report now when you pull a on the credit report now when you pull a on the credit report now when you pull a credit when you pull a credit report for credit when you pull a credit report for credit when you pull a credit report for a mortgage and both both are on that

a mortgage and both both are on that a mortgage and both both are on that report it's what's called a joint credit report it's what's called a joint credit report it's what's called a joint credit reports a good book debts but that reports a good book debts but that reports a good book debts but that together so I'm just going down them one together so I'm just going down them one together so I'm just going down them one by one here's this credit card here's by one here's this credit card here's by one here's this credit card here's this long here's this credit card this this long here's this credit card this this long here's this credit card this credit card credit card credit card I hit a certain credit card and let me I hit a certain credit card and let me I hit a certain credit card and let me know the balance that was showing up the know the balance that was showing up the know the balance that was showing up the wife immediately said well that's not wife immediately said well that's not wife immediately said well that's not ours I don't know and so my mind went to ours I don't know and so my mind went to ours I don't know and so my mind went to fraud write something something's wrong fraud write something something's wrong fraud write something something's wrong here right we need to help them or I here right we need to help them or I here right we need to help them or I need to help them figure out how to get need to help them figure out how to get need to help them figure out how to get this off their off their credit credit this off their off their credit credit this off their off their credit credit report so I started walking it through report so I started walking it through report so I started walking it through that just the basic steps on how to do that just the basic steps on how to do that just the basic steps on how to do that well as I was doing that in the that well as I was doing that in the that well as I was doing that in the both of them were sitting across the both of them were sitting across the both of them were sitting across the table for me I could watch the husband table for me I could watch the husband table for me I could watch the husband he started turning really red no and he started turning really red no and he started turning really red no and he's been sweating a little bit and and he's been sweating a little bit and and he's been sweating a little bit and and so as I was about halfway through so as I was about halfway through so as I was about halfway through describing the steps that they needed to describing the steps that they needed to describing the steps that they needed to take to get it off the credit report he take to get it off the credit report he take to get it off the credit report he said don't worry about it of course the said don't worry about it of course the said don't worry about it of course the wife oh so she was not looking at him I wife oh so she was not looking at him I wife oh so she was not looking at him I could see something that she could not could see something that she could not could see something that she could not see right she was looking at me she's see right she was looking at me she's see right she was looking at me she's know we need to let me get this take know we need to let me get this take know we need to let me get this take care of he once again interrupted said care of he once again interrupted said care of he once again interrupted said absolutely not just don't worry about it absolutely not just don't worry about it absolutely not just don't worry about it honey let's let's keep going honey let's let's keep going honey let's let's keep going well at that one turned to him and could well at that one turned to him and could well at that one turned to him and could see what I had been seeing all along but see what I had been seeing all along but see what I had been seeing all along but that there was something really wrong that there was something really wrong that there was something really wrong here and of course she turned looked at here and of course she turned looked at here and of course she turned looked at me she goes are I'm really sorry about me she goes are I'm really sorry about me she goes are I'm really sorry about this but we need to leave I got up this but we need to leave I got up this but we need to leave I got up walked out it blocks out the room Oh walked out it blocks out the room Oh walked out it blocks out the room Oh husband with his head down got up and

husband with his head down got up and husband with his head down got up and followed now I have no idea what followed now I have no idea what followed now I have no idea what happened there right I have no idea how happened there right I have no idea how happened there right I have no idea how their marriage went after that I do know their marriage went after that I do know their marriage went after that I do know that their marriage was probably better that their marriage was probably better that their marriage was probably better when they when they when they walked into that to my office then one walked into that to my office then one walked into that to my office then one day when they walked out right day when they walked out right day when they walked out right financially separate marriage it hurts financially separate marriage it hurts financially separate marriage it hurts your generosity it can also devastate your generosity it can also devastate your generosity it can also devastate your your marriage because it can your your marriage because it can your your marriage because it can actually leave you two hiding hiding actually leave you two hiding hiding actually leave you two hiding hiding financial secrets from your from your financial secrets from your from your financial secrets from your from your spouse well in the bigger issue there spouse well in the bigger issue there spouse well in the bigger issue there ultimately becomes a pattern of hiding ultimately becomes a pattern of hiding ultimately becomes a pattern of hiding right that you know right that if you're right that you know right that if you're right that you know right that if you're willing to hide that what does it mean willing to hide that what does it mean willing to hide that what does it mean in other areas of your life and that's in other areas of your life and that's in other areas of your life and that's right and unfortunately you know I I right and unfortunately you know I I right and unfortunately you know I I wish I didn't see where that was going wish I didn't see where that was going wish I didn't see where that was going you know I'd like my we've heard those you know I'd like my we've heard those you know I'd like my we've heard those stories right we've and that ultimately stories right we've and that ultimately stories right we've and that ultimately you know it leads to super destructive you know it leads to super destructive you know it leads to super destructive to you know to marriages for sure to you know to marriages for sure to you know to marriages for sure this has been great now before we move this has been great now before we move this has been great now before we move on I want you to tell me a little bit on I want you to tell me a little bit on I want you to tell me a little bit about where people can get the book you about where people can get the book you about where people can get the book you know if they want to you know pick up know if they want to you know pick up know if they want to you know pick up copies of it is you know how how can copies of it is you know how how can copies of it is you know how how can they learn more about this well of they learn more about this well of they learn more about this well of course you can go to amazon.com so it's course you can go to amazon.com so it's course you can go to amazon.com so it's it's available there if you want to get it's available there if you want to get it's available there if you want to get the box of 20 for $100 which for pastors the box of 20 for $100 which for pastors the box of 20 for $100 which for pastors that that's what I recommend it's a very that that's what I recommend it's a very that that's what I recommend it's a very I wants a cheap but a very easy way to I wants a cheap but a very easy way to I wants a cheap but a very easy way to get those books out out to your to your get those books out out to your to your get those books out out to your to your congregation you will need to go to life congregation you will need to go to life congregation you will need to go to life Wacom that that is not available on Wacom that that is not available on Wacom that that is not available on Amazon so you need to go to life Wacom Amazon so you need to go to life Wacom Amazon so you need to go to life Wacom and purchase the box box they're very

and purchase the box box they're very and purchase the box box they're very good either those are good options good either those are good options good either those are good options that's that's that's fantastic and I that's that's that's fantastic and I that's that's that's fantastic and I encourage you and Curtis church leaders encourage you and Curtis church leaders encourage you and Curtis church leaders are listening in to you know to drop by are listening in to you know to drop by are listening in to you know to drop by to take a look you know one of the to take a look you know one of the to take a look you know one of the beautiful things about Amazon is you can beautiful things about Amazon is you can beautiful things about Amazon is you can you can actually read a bunch of the you can actually read a bunch of the you can actually read a bunch of the book you know right from that's right at book you know right from that's right at book you know right from that's right at the front end so you don't have to spend the front end so you don't have to spend the front end so you don't have to spend a penny you can get a chance to you know a penny you can get a chance to you know a penny you can get a chance to you know get a sense of where things are at you get a sense of where things are at you get a sense of where things are at you know you can get a sense of the pacing know you can get a sense of the pacing know you can get a sense of the pacing and the style that sort of thing which and the style that sort of thing which and the style that sort of thing which is which is helpful so you know I would is which is helpful so you know I would is which is helpful so you know I would encourage you to do that I think it's a encourage you to do that I think it's a encourage you to do that I think it's a great resource a great potential great resource a great potential great resource a great potential resource for your church as you're you resource for your church as you're you resource for your church as you're you know looking to help people walk through know looking to help people walk through know looking to help people walk through you know the financial issues which are you know the financial issues which are you know the financial issues which are huge we we all know know that are huge we we all know know that are huge we we all know know that are anything else you want to say before we anything else you want to say before we anything else you want to say before we we jump into the lightning round we jump into the lightning round we jump into the lightning round no no that's that that that's it no no that's that that that's it no no that's that that that's it thank you for for letting me walk your thank you for for letting me walk your thank you for for letting me walk your listeners through the money challenge I listeners through the money challenge I listeners through the money challenge I appreciate it this is the unset Maneri appreciate it this is the unset Maneri appreciate it this is the unset Maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary today we're we seminary today we're we seminary today we're we our trainer with us he's an author and our trainer with us he's an author and our trainer with us he's an author and just a great leader and I'm just super just a great leader and I'm just super just a great leader and I'm just super excited to have him on today well why excited to have him on today well why excited to have him on today well why don't we get over the lightning round don't we get over the lightning round don't we get over the lightning round this is the part of the episode where we this is the part of the episode where we this is the part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody that's on the show or what's an online that's on the show or what's an online that's on the show or what's an online resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days that's helping about mint.com is one of that's helping about mint.com is one of that's helping about mint.com is one of my favorite budgeting tools that's out my favorite budgeting tools that's out my favorite budgeting tools that's out there now you have to be willing to let there now you have to be willing to let there now you have to be willing to let the the website have all of your the the website have all of your the the website have all of your financial data so I know some people are financial data so I know some people are financial data so I know some people are scared about that I'm just one of those scared about that I'm just one of those scared about that I'm just one of those that's it's not terrified by it by that that's it's not terrified by it by that that's it's not terrified by it by that thought so but mint.com is an amazing thought so but mint.com is an amazing thought so but mint.com is an amazing maging budgeting tool and resource that maging budgeting tool and resource that maging budgeting tool and resource that that's out there I also on as far as an

that's out there I also on as far as an that's out there I also on as far as an app goes on my phone I use an app called app goes on my phone I use an app called app goes on my phone I use an app called clear I'm a checklist person yes and clear I'm a checklist person yes and clear I'm a checklist person yes and clears one of the most simple clears one of the most simple clears one of the most simple user-friendly apps that I found at user-friendly apps that I found at user-friendly apps that I found at personally don't need anything complex personally don't need anything complex personally don't need anything complex because I'm just doing it every single because I'm just doing it every single because I'm just doing it every single every single day so I use clear a lot as every single day so I use clear a lot as every single day so I use clear a lot as well nice what's a book you've read well nice what's a book you've read well nice what's a book you've read which is going to be a lot from a guy which is going to be a lot from a guy which is going to be a lot from a guy who's a publisher of books so what's a who's a publisher of books so what's a who's a publisher of books so what's a book that you've read in the last I book that you've read in the last I book that you've read in the last I don't know six months maybe two a year don't know six months maybe two a year don't know six months maybe two a year that have shaped your thinking in that have shaped your thinking in that have shaped your thinking in ministry man a great I don't think it ministry man a great I don't think it ministry man a great I don't think it was meant to be a leadership book but it was meant to be a leadership book but it was meant to be a leadership book but it ends up being a great leadership book is ends up being a great leadership book is ends up being a great leadership book is the boys in the boat okay and that's why the boys in the boat okay and that's why the boys in the boat okay and that's why that's by a guy named Daniel Brown it's that's by a guy named Daniel Brown it's that's by a guy named Daniel Brown it's a story about a a Washington Washington a story about a a Washington Washington a story about a a Washington Washington State rowing team and how they State rowing team and how they State rowing team and how they eventually won the the gold in the eventually won the the gold in the eventually won the the gold in the Berlin Olympics cool and so it's a great Berlin Olympics cool and so it's a great Berlin Olympics cool and so it's a great depression-era story and man it is is depression-era story and man it is is depression-era story and man it is is written so so well you can't not get written so so well you can't not get written so so well you can't not get trapped in the story that that's being trapped in the story that that's being trapped in the story that that's being told of course it's true story there's a told of course it's true story there's a told of course it's true story there's a number of different leadership number of different leadership number of different leadership principles and even followership principles and even followership principles and even followership principles that are that are found principles that are that are found principles that are that are found within the book so highly highly within the book so highly highly within the book so highly highly recommend that with a little bit of a recommend that with a little bit of a recommend that with a little bit of a long read but it's I promise you it's long read but it's I promise you it's long read but it's I promise you it's worth it and then also that the elements worth it and then also that the elements worth it and then also that the elements of investing is a is a really great book of investing is a is a really great book of investing is a is a really great book a very simple book for those who are

a very simple book for those who are a very simple book for those who are wondering what what do I do with with my wondering what what do I do with with my wondering what what do I do with with my retirement what should I retirement what should I retirement what should I invest in I erected that book if you invest in I erected that book if you invest in I erected that book if you have those sorts of questions very cool have those sorts of questions very cool have those sorts of questions very cool what's here the ministry you're looking what's here the ministry you're looking what's here the ministry you're looking to that inspires you oh man so I to that inspires you oh man so I to that inspires you oh man so I mentioned that I was on staff at Family mentioned that I was on staff at Family mentioned that I was on staff at Family Church down in West Palm Beach I was on Church down in West Palm Beach I was on Church down in West Palm Beach I was on staff there for about five years and I staff there for about five years and I staff there for about five years and I continue to be amazed it would what continue to be amazed it would what continue to be amazed it would what they're doing down there so the church they're doing down there so the church they're doing down there so the church not only continues to grow they continue not only continues to grow they continue not only continues to grow they continue to add new campuses but if you're to add new campuses but if you're to add new campuses but if you're familiar with the what's called the familiar with the what's called the familiar with the what's called the three circles and they it's a way to three circles and they it's a way to three circles and they it's a way to share your faith that was birthed out of share your faith that was birthed out of share your faith that was birthed out of a family church and that church has a family church and that church has a family church and that church has become so intentional on sharing the become so intentional on sharing the become so intentional on sharing the gospel with those around them and they gospel with those around them and they gospel with those around them and they they continue to I guess you could use they continue to I guess you could use they continue to I guess you could use the term experience success and see God the term experience success and see God the term experience success and see God use those those conversations to impact use those those conversations to impact use those those conversations to impact that area which is incredibly lost area that area which is incredibly lost area that area which is incredibly lost area in our nation I believe I hope I'm in our nation I believe I hope I'm in our nation I believe I hope I'm quoting this statistic right but I quoting this statistic right but I quoting this statistic right but I believe 97% of the the population in the believe 97% of the the population in the believe 97% of the the population in the county that they're located in are county that they're located in are county that they're located in are completely unchurched so it's a very completely unchurched so it's a very completely unchurched so it's a very lost area right there that they're lost area right there that they're lost area right there that they're impacting in so there I love watching impacting in so there I love watching impacting in so there I love watching them love hearing the stories coming out them love hearing the stories coming out them love hearing the stories coming out of that area very cool if you could get of that area very cool if you could get of that area very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who 15 minutes with any leader alive who 15 minutes with any leader alive who would that be with and why I'm

would that be with and why I'm would that be with and why I'm fascinated by Elon Musk and in part just fascinated by Elon Musk and in part just fascinated by Elon Musk and in part just because he always seems to be a step because he always seems to be a step because he always seems to be a step ahead right of everybody and his ahead right of everybody and his ahead right of everybody and his interviews fascinate me he also seems to interviews fascinate me he also seems to interviews fascinate me he also seems to be unafraid to disrupt pretty stagnant be unafraid to disrupt pretty stagnant be unafraid to disrupt pretty stagnant areas of Industry so you look at the areas of Industry so you look at the areas of Industry so you look at the automobile industry you may have seen it automobile industry you may have seen it automobile industry you may have seen it on Facebook at least I get the ads where on Facebook at least I get the ads where on Facebook at least I get the ads where they're now doing solar tiles for your they're now doing solar tiles for your they're now doing solar tiles for your for your roofing may who thought that for your roofing may who thought that for your roofing may who thought that you could be innovative with with with you could be innovative with with with you could be innovative with with with roofing tiles right off yes cob and then roofing tiles right off yes cob and then roofing tiles right off yes cob and then of course as we look at ia of course as we look at ia of course as we look at ia and he's on the leading edge of that and he's on the leading edge of that and he's on the leading edge of that it's I would love to just have it just a it's I would love to just have it just a it's I would love to just have it just a conversation win with him and to to conversation win with him and to to conversation win with him and to to experience his his thought process for a experience his his thought process for a experience his his thought process for a little while yeah the thing I love about little while yeah the thing I love about little while yeah the thing I love about Elon Musk is he seems to always he gets Elon Musk is he seems to always he gets Elon Musk is he seems to always he gets to the nub of like the fundamental to the nub of like the fundamental to the nub of like the fundamental principle of what's wrong with something principle of what's wrong with something principle of what's wrong with something right like even the right house you right like even the right house you right like even the right house you talked about like I don't know whether talked about like I don't know whether talked about like I don't know whether it's true or not but the way they're it's true or not but the way they're it's true or not but the way they're selling them is like it's less than a selling them is like it's less than a selling them is like it's less than a normal roof so right for the cost of normal roof so right for the cost of normal roof so right for the cost of less than doing normal tiles you can put less than doing normal tiles you can put less than doing normal tiles you can put a you know solar tiles on your roof and a you know solar tiles on your roof and a you know solar tiles on your roof and just like I gotta say I that drove do me just like I gotta say I that drove do me just like I gotta say I that drove do me I'm like what thank you right maybe I I'm like what thank you right maybe I I'm like what thank you right maybe I should just do that you know it's crazy should just do that you know it's crazy should just do that you know it's crazy it's amazing it's amazing it's amazing so I'm sure you know doing everything so I'm sure you know doing everything so I'm sure you know doing everything you're doing it takes a lot out of you you're doing it takes a lot out of you you're doing it takes a lot out of you it's a lot of energy but when you want it's a lot of energy but when you want it's a lot of energy but when you want to kick back relax have some fun what do

to kick back relax have some fun what do to kick back relax have some fun what do you do for fun and I have a great great you do for fun and I have a great great you do for fun and I have a great great family so I have three boys six three family so I have three boys six three family so I have three boys six three and ten months now are their ages and we and ten months now are their ages and we and ten months now are their ages and we just have we have we have a blast just have we have we have a blast just have we have we have a blast together of course that means that our together of course that means that our together of course that means that our house is in total chaos most of most of house is in total chaos most of most of house is in total chaos most of most of the time because they are very active the time because they are very active the time because they are very active boys I have a great wife Sarah that I boys I have a great wife Sarah that I boys I have a great wife Sarah that I love hanging out with as well so if I love hanging out with as well so if I love hanging out with as well so if I have and when I have free time it is have and when I have free time it is have and when I have free time it is almost always spent spent with them nice almost always spent spent with them nice almost always spent spent with them nice all right I really appreciate you being all right I really appreciate you being all right I really appreciate you being you know on the show today taking time you know on the show today taking time you know on the show today taking time out of your schedule to be with us if out of your schedule to be with us if out of your schedule to be with us if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or with school or learn more about the book with school or learn more about the book with school or learn more about the book what are the kind of various places they what are the kind of various places they what are the kind of various places they can get in touch with you can get in touch with you can get in touch with you sure well my twitter handle is art is at sure well my twitter handle is art is at sure well my twitter handle is art is at our trainer so I do respond so if you our trainer so I do respond so if you our trainer so I do respond so if you send me a direct message then most of send me a direct message then most of send me a direct message then most of the time as long as it's a legit direct the time as long as it's a legit direct the time as long as it's a legit direct message right then I then I will then I message right then I then I will then I message right then I then I will then I will respond you can also reach me here will respond you can also reach me here will respond you can also reach me here at the at the seminary the seminaries at the at the seminary the seminaries at the at the seminary the seminaries website is sebt s dot edu so it's website is sebt s dot edu so it's website is sebt s dot edu so it's southeastern Baptist Theological southeastern Baptist Theological southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary you can you can reach me here Seminary you can you can reach me here Seminary you can you can reach me here as well appreciate me on the show today as well appreciate me on the show today as well appreciate me on the show today art all right thank you very much I art all right thank you very much I art all right thank you very much I appreciate it appreciate it appreciate it thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox to connect check out on seminary inbox to connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon Ericom and you can sign up at unsummon Ericom and you can sign up at unsummon Ericom and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you

members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unsummon Ericom it includes links to unsummon Ericom it includes links to unsummon Ericom it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung nary podcast join us next week unsung nary podcast join us next week unsung nary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary