Clay Gatlin on Positive Working Relationships Between Lay & Vocational Church Leaders

today's unseminary podcast episode is today's unseminary podcast episode is brought to you by regal theater church brought to you by regal theater church brought to you by regal theater church the only theater company providing full the only theater company providing full the only theater company providing full service consultation for churches service consultation for churches service consultation for churches wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship services in familiar culturally relevant services in familiar culturally relevant services in familiar culturally relevant venues the local movie theater with lots venues the local movie theater with lots venues the local movie theater with lots of parking spacious lobbies plenty of of parking spacious lobbies plenty of of parking spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view of the bathrooms and a perfect view of the bathrooms and a perfect view of the screen from a comfortable seat real screen from a comfortable seat real screen from a comfortable seat real theaters are ideal for church plants and theaters are ideal for church plants and theaters are ideal for church plants and multi-sites learn more at multi-sites learn more at multi-sites learn more at regaltheaterchurch.com or call their regaltheaterchurch.com or call their regaltheaterchurch.com or call their incredible team at 1-800-7 welcome to the unseminary podcast are welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast well hey this week's unseminary podcast well hey this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the unseminary everybody welcome to the unseminary everybody welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is rich i'm so glad that podcast my name is rich i'm so glad that podcast my name is rich i'm so glad that you've decided to spend some time with you've decided to spend some time with you've decided to spend some time with us happy thursday we know that you've us happy thursday we know that you've us happy thursday we know that you've got a lot going on as you head into this got a lot going on as you head into this got a lot going on as you head into this weekend at your church and we're honored weekend at your church and we're honored weekend at your church and we're honored that you would take some time out that you would take some time out that you would take some time out to spend with us today uh i'm pumped for to spend with us today uh i'm pumped for to spend with us today uh i'm pumped for this conversation this is with clay this conversation this is with clay this conversation this is with clay gatlin from faith christian community gatlin from faith christian community gatlin from faith christian community all the way from anchorage alaska so i'm all the way from anchorage alaska so i'm all the way from anchorage alaska so i'm pumped to have him uh with us today pumped to have him uh with us today pumped to have him uh with us today welcome to the show clay welcome to the show clay welcome to the show clay thank you good to be here no i'm uh so thank you good to be here no i'm uh so thank you good to be here no i'm uh so as a canadian who's now living in the as a canadian who's now living in the as a canadian who's now living in the states states states people are always making fun of canadian people are always making fun of canadian people are always making fun of canadian weather and i feel like you know you're weather and i feel like you know you're weather and i feel like you know you're the guy that i can kick even more about

the guy that i can kick even more about the guy that i can kick even more about having because you have real winter having because you have real winter having because you have real winter there you know even more so as a there you know even more so as a there you know even more so as a canadian living in jersey canadian living in jersey canadian living in jersey that's right we're already covered in that's right we're already covered in that's right we're already covered in snow and ice that's incredible that's snow and ice that's incredible that's snow and ice that's incredible that's that's great well why don't you tell us that's great well why don't you tell us that's great well why don't you tell us about faith christian community i'd love about faith christian community i'd love about faith christian community i'd love to hear more about your your ministry to hear more about your your ministry to hear more about your your ministry yeah faith christian community is a yeah faith christian community is a yeah faith christian community is a non-denominational church it was non-denominational church it was non-denominational church it was actually merged by actually merged by actually merged by a church of christ and a baptist church a church of christ and a baptist church a church of christ and a baptist church can you believe that so the two churches can you believe that so the two churches can you believe that so the two churches emerged years ago emerged years ago emerged years ago and it was just got a strong basis a and it was just got a strong basis a and it was just got a strong basis a conservative church but it is a church conservative church but it is a church conservative church but it is a church that for whatever reason god has that for whatever reason god has that for whatever reason god has entrusted a lot of broken people entrusted a lot of broken people entrusted a lot of broken people anchorage alaska is full of of broken anchorage alaska is full of of broken anchorage alaska is full of of broken people hurting people it's kind of our people hurting people it's kind of our people hurting people it's kind of our culture here and so god has blessed this culture here and so god has blessed this culture here and so god has blessed this church with being such a warm and safe church with being such a warm and safe church with being such a warm and safe place and so we receive place and so we receive place and so we receive just a person after person who comes just a person after person who comes just a person after person who comes with needs and they find this to be a with needs and they find this to be a with needs and they find this to be a place of home in fact when people come place of home in fact when people come place of home in fact when people come to our church and they join we first to our church and they join we first to our church and they join we first thing we tell them the whole thing we tell them the whole thing we tell them the whole congregation says welcome home and so we congregation says welcome home and so we congregation says welcome home and so we take our name really serious faith take our name really serious faith take our name really serious faith christian community that's why it's christian community that's why it's christian community that's why it's actually not called faith christian actually not called faith christian actually not called faith christian community church or faith christian community church or faith christian community church or faith christian church it's just called faith christian church it's just called faith christian church it's just called faith christian community because we value and emphasize community because we value and emphasize community because we value and emphasize on not being a church in a sense of a on not being a church in a sense of a on not being a church in a sense of a a place but truly being a community a place but truly being a community a place but truly being a community why don't you give us a sense of why don't you give us a sense of why don't you give us a sense of anchorage you know i think a lot of anchorage you know i think a lot of anchorage you know i think a lot of people you know people you know people you know wouldn't really have a sense of what wouldn't really have a sense of what wouldn't really have a sense of what what what is going on in anchorage give what what is going on in anchorage give what what is going on in anchorage give us a sense of the culture that's there us a sense of the culture that's there us a sense of the culture that's there and then how your church kind of and then how your church kind of and then how your church kind of dovetails with that dovetails with that dovetails with that yeah so we're a church of uh we run

yeah so we're a church of uh we run yeah so we're a church of uh we run about between 15 and 1600 on incredible about between 15 and 1600 on incredible about between 15 and 1600 on incredible weekend service and we've got weekend service and we've got weekend service and we've got uh you know anchorages probably close to uh you know anchorages probably close to uh you know anchorages probably close to 400 000 so they say 375 390 you hear 400 000 so they say 375 390 you hear 400 000 so they say 375 390 you hear different different perspectives but the different different perspectives but the different different perspectives but the whole state of alaska has less than a whole state of alaska has less than a whole state of alaska has less than a million like 750 000 people million like 750 000 people million like 750 000 people but because anchorage has a lot of um but because anchorage has a lot of um but because anchorage has a lot of um it's a place where people run away from it's a place where people run away from it's a place where people run away from to get to so a lot of people from the to get to so a lot of people from the to get to so a lot of people from the lord 48 run lord 48 run lord 48 run to anchorage alaska and it's uh it's to anchorage alaska and it's uh it's to anchorage alaska and it's uh it's according to latest reports it's the according to latest reports it's the according to latest reports it's the actual most diverse city in in the actual most diverse city in in the actual most diverse city in in the country in fact we have two of the top country in fact we have two of the top country in fact we have two of the top two of the three uh one two and three so two of the three uh one two and three so two of the three uh one two and three so we have two of the top three most we have two of the top three most we have two of the top three most diverse schools in the united states of diverse schools in the united states of diverse schools in the united states of america so this is melding pot so we america so this is melding pot so we america so this is melding pot so we have people from all over have people from all over have people from all over different countries that just kind of different countries that just kind of different countries that just kind of flee and end up in anchorage for flee and end up in anchorage for flee and end up in anchorage for whatever reason and it's not a cheap whatever reason and it's not a cheap whatever reason and it's not a cheap place to live so that's it can't be to place to live so that's it can't be to place to live so that's it can't be to come like to the south you know right so come like to the south you know right so come like to the south you know right so we're made up of just uh just a whole we're made up of just uh just a whole we're made up of just uh just a whole bunch of people that are are getting bunch of people that are are getting bunch of people that are are getting away from something but interestingly away from something but interestingly away from something but interestingly enough the community is extremely loving enough the community is extremely loving enough the community is extremely loving right so we have high crime right so we have high crime right so we have high crime we have all kinds of domestic things we have all kinds of domestic things we have all kinds of domestic things really is what you see the most of really is what you see the most of really is what you see the most of alcohol abuse and drug abuse is is alcohol abuse and drug abuse is is alcohol abuse and drug abuse is is rampant here rampant here rampant here but the community in itself is just such but the community in itself is just such but the community in itself is just such a welcoming in fact in my almost three a welcoming in fact in my almost three a welcoming in fact in my almost three decades of ministry this is by far the decades of ministry this is by far the decades of ministry this is by far the most amazing church an amazing place

most amazing church an amazing place most amazing church an amazing place i've ever been a part of i've ever been a part of i've ever been a part of interesting and so then give us a sense interesting and so then give us a sense interesting and so then give us a sense of the flavor of the ministry when of the flavor of the ministry when of the flavor of the ministry when people were to arrive at faith christian people were to arrive at faith christian people were to arrive at faith christian um obviously uh you know like you're um obviously uh you know like you're um obviously uh you know like you're saying it's a loving caring community saying it's a loving caring community saying it's a loving caring community what what give us a sense of the kind of what what give us a sense of the kind of what what give us a sense of the kind of the structure of your ministry how the structure of your ministry how the structure of your ministry how things work what are you doing on things work what are you doing on things work what are you doing on weekends how does that all work together weekends how does that all work together weekends how does that all work together yeah so we again we thrive on the whole yeah so we again we thrive on the whole yeah so we again we thrive on the whole the whole realistic piece of the church the whole realistic piece of the church the whole realistic piece of the church how it operates and that's the community how it operates and that's the community how it operates and that's the community so i say that's the realistic piece in so i say that's the realistic piece in so i say that's the realistic piece in that anything anything that doesn't have that anything anything that doesn't have that anything anything that doesn't have that at its core is really just doing that at its core is really just doing that at its core is really just doing church right so we really thrive and church right so we really thrive and church right so we really thrive and strive to make community the uh the strive to make community the uh the strive to make community the uh the central part of anything that we do so central part of anything that we do so central part of anything that we do so our weekend services we have one on our weekend services we have one on our weekend services we have one on saturday night and three on sunday okay saturday night and three on sunday okay saturday night and three on sunday okay four services total and uh you know we four services total and uh you know we four services total and uh you know we have uh one of the one of the states have uh one of the one of the states have uh one of the one of the states really i think one of the country's best really i think one of the country's best really i think one of the country's best but certainly the state's largest and but certainly the state's largest and but certainly the state's largest and best uh celebrate recovery ministries best uh celebrate recovery ministries best uh celebrate recovery ministries the state director is a member of our the state director is a member of our the state director is a member of our church and so we just we kind of draw in church and so we just we kind of draw in church and so we just we kind of draw in that right so what you expect when you that right so what you expect when you that right so what you expect when you come here is to get connected and so come here is to get connected and so come here is to get connected and so that's what we even as a staff as that's what we even as a staff as that's what we even as a staff as pastors we really strive to make sure pastors we really strive to make sure pastors we really strive to make sure that you don't just come in and get out that you don't just come in and get out that you don't just come in and get out and so even if it's just to say hi we and so even if it's just to say hi we and so even if it's just to say hi we just want to make sure that you know just want to make sure that you know just want to make sure that you know that someone saw you so it's just that that someone saw you so it's just that that someone saw you so it's just that kind of a church that people notice kind of a church that people notice kind of a church that people notice other other people very cool and what's other other people very cool and what's other other people very cool and what's your role there at faith christian your role there at faith christian your role there at faith christian community i'm the lead pastor great community i'm the lead pastor great community i'm the lead pastor great great stuff now tell us about how kind great stuff now tell us about how kind great stuff now tell us about how kind of your structure do you um you know of your structure do you um you know of your structure do you um you know you're a staff-led kind of church are you're a staff-led kind of church are you're a staff-led kind of church are you how would you kind of articulate how you how would you kind of articulate how you how would you kind of articulate how things are kind of you know kind of led things are kind of you know kind of led things are kind of you know kind of led within your church within your church within your church yeah actually we're kind of we're kind

yeah actually we're kind of we're kind yeah actually we're kind of we're kind of morphing yes as we speak yeah we've of morphing yes as we speak yeah we've of morphing yes as we speak yeah we've been transitioning so been transitioning so been transitioning so it's kind of been a hodgepodge of it's kind of been a hodgepodge of it's kind of been a hodgepodge of different um different paradigms if you different um different paradigms if you different um different paradigms if you will in terms of governance church will in terms of governance church will in terms of governance church governance but right now what we just governance but right now what we just governance but right now what we just recently even as of last week kind of recently even as of last week kind of recently even as of last week kind of made some solid final decisions on is we made some solid final decisions on is we made some solid final decisions on is we are we are really um pastor led and are we are really um pastor led and are we are really um pastor led and elder elder governed but our elders are elder elder governed but our elders are elder elder governed but our elders are a little bit different too though a little bit different too though a little bit different too though because we don't just have a group of because we don't just have a group of because we don't just have a group of lay elders so elders are shepherds lay elders so elders are shepherds lay elders so elders are shepherds pastors in fact it's the only call in pastors in fact it's the only call in pastors in fact it's the only call in the bible that's a call from god the bible that's a call from god the bible that's a call from god everything else is man called right so everything else is man called right so everything else is man called right so every job on the planet every job on the planet every job on the planet is man called but that of shepherd is man called but that of shepherd is man called but that of shepherd is is god called and so we we value we is is god called and so we we value we is is god called and so we we value we value lay elders but we also think that value lay elders but we also think that value lay elders but we also think that they don't serve as a um as the boss they don't serve as a um as the boss they don't serve as a um as the boss right to the past holders those that are right to the past holders those that are right to the past holders those that are called vocationally that are serving on called vocationally that are serving on called vocationally that are serving on staff and so we're moving into staff and so we're moving into staff and so we're moving into um having this great team of staff um having this great team of staff um having this great team of staff elders and lay elders serving together elders and lay elders serving together elders and lay elders serving together in order to separate the body because in order to separate the body because in order to separate the body because even with a team like that it's still even with a team like that it's still even with a team like that it's still not enough shepherds right to shepherd not enough shepherds right to shepherd not enough shepherds right to shepherd 15 1600 people so we value the lay 15 1600 people so we value the lay 15 1600 people so we value the lay elders in the body we value we we call elders in the body we value we we call elders in the body we value we we call those inactive who are not serving on an those inactive who are not serving on an those inactive who are not serving on an administrative team but those that are administrative team but those that are administrative team but those that are on the administrative team are just on the administrative team are just on the administrative team are just active lay elders serving with our active lay elders serving with our active lay elders serving with our pastoral elders to help shepherd and pastoral elders to help shepherd and pastoral elders to help shepherd and love and lead our church i think love and lead our church i think love and lead our church i think sometimes there could be a tension in sometimes there could be a tension in sometimes there could be a tension in that between you know kind of lay elders that between you know kind of lay elders that between you know kind of lay elders and then pastoral or vocational you know and then pastoral or vocational you know and then pastoral or vocational you know elders how are you working that out how elders how are you working that out how elders how are you working that out how are you finding kind of a good

are you finding kind of a good are you finding kind of a good partnership between the you know those partnership between the you know those partnership between the you know those groups of people to care for the folks groups of people to care for the folks groups of people to care for the folks that are coming to your church that are coming to your church that are coming to your church yeah well you know it's a it's it's in yeah well you know it's a it's it's in yeah well you know it's a it's it's in the making still i mean it's working the making still i mean it's working the making still i mean it's working through a lot of that right but so through a lot of that right but so through a lot of that right but so you've got all different kind of models you've got all different kind of models you've got all different kind of models that's the thing about a that's the thing about a that's the thing about a non-denominational church is everyone non-denominational church is everyone non-denominational church is everyone most people come from something yes and most people come from something yes and most people come from something yes and so kind of bringing all those so kind of bringing all those so kind of bringing all those perspectives in so god's done just he's perspectives in so god's done just he's perspectives in so god's done just he's been very gracious and it just shows the been very gracious and it just shows the been very gracious and it just shows the resiliency of our our people and our resiliency of our our people and our resiliency of our our people and our leaders and their humility because we're leaders and their humility because we're leaders and their humility because we're really having to kind of give and take really having to kind of give and take really having to kind of give and take to figure out not what's my role and to figure out not what's my role and to figure out not what's my role and your role in the sense of i want this your role in the sense of i want this your role in the sense of i want this position but it's more of how are we position but it's more of how are we position but it's more of how are we going to work together best to serve going to work together best to serve going to work together best to serve god's people and lead god's people care god's people and lead god's people care god's people and lead god's people care for god's people protect god's people for god's people protect god's people for god's people protect god's people and so it has been a it's been a process and so it has been a it's been a process and so it has been a it's been a process but i would say more than anything it's but i would say more than anything it's but i would say more than anything it's from it's remembering and reminding each from it's remembering and reminding each from it's remembering and reminding each other of the role the biblical role of other of the role the biblical role of other of the role the biblical role of an elder and not so much what we've done an elder and not so much what we've done an elder and not so much what we've done because you know as right in church because you know as right in church because you know as right in church world we look very different than the world we look very different than the world we look very different than the new testament church because there's no new testament church because there's no new testament church because there's no perfect model church in the new perfect model church in the new perfect model church in the new testament we see bits and pieces they're testament we see bits and pieces they're testament we see bits and pieces they're great great churches writing great great great churches writing great great great churches writing great things but there's not one church that things but there's not one church that things but there's not one church that you can just model yourself after maybe you can just model yourself after maybe you can just model yourself after maybe jesus did that on purpose right right jesus did that on purpose right right jesus did that on purpose right right worshipped that church yes worshipped that church yes worshipped that church yes that's what we're doing is just daily that's what we're doing is just daily that's what we're doing is just daily coming back to coming back to coming back to what does the bible say that we're what does the bible say that we're what does the bible say that we're supposed to do as a shepherd not what supposed to do as a shepherd not what supposed to do as a shepherd not what has man done with that role and that has man done with that role and that has man done with that role and that title and that seat or that position and title and that seat or that position and title and that seat or that position and how are you doing that how are you you how are you doing that how are you you how are you doing that how are you you know how are you using that um kind of know how are you using that um kind of know how are you using that um kind of biblical description with your elders to biblical description with your elders to biblical description with your elders to kind of keep them on the same page what kind of keep them on the same page what kind of keep them on the same page what does that look like with your with your does that look like with your with your does that look like with your with your team of elders

team of elders team of elders so well first just a lot more prayer i so well first just a lot more prayer i so well first just a lot more prayer i think that what ended up happening in think that what ended up happening in think that what ended up happening in the past was we there was a lot of the past was we there was a lot of the past was we there was a lot of meetings and a lot of conversations so meetings and a lot of conversations so meetings and a lot of conversations so that meant there was a lot of voices that meant there was a lot of voices that meant there was a lot of voices there was a lot of man involved and we there was a lot of man involved and we there was a lot of man involved and we really just kind of stopped in fact we really just kind of stopped in fact we really just kind of stopped in fact we we did this church-wide we we took our we did this church-wide we we took our we did this church-wide we we took our whole tuesday night uh which was our whole tuesday night uh which was our whole tuesday night uh which was our small group night here at the church and small group night here at the church and small group night here at the church and we we gave it up for a season isn't that we we gave it up for a season isn't that we we gave it up for a season isn't that crazy and we just on prayer so tuesday crazy and we just on prayer so tuesday crazy and we just on prayer so tuesday nights is just prayer and it's open from nights is just prayer and it's open from nights is just prayer and it's open from 6 30 to 9 30 and just kind of come and 6 30 to 9 30 and just kind of come and 6 30 to 9 30 and just kind of come and go well we did that in our elder team as go well we did that in our elder team as go well we did that in our elder team as well we just said you know what let's well we just said you know what let's well we just said you know what let's just pray and see god's face about the just pray and see god's face about the just pray and see god's face about the best way to do this and like i said best way to do this and like i said best way to do this and like i said since it's still morphing and since since it's still morphing and since since it's still morphing and since we're kind of knowing that i don't have we're kind of knowing that i don't have we're kind of knowing that i don't have the end game yes sir and it really is the end game yes sir and it really is the end game yes sir and it really is more of a how are we going to continue more of a how are we going to continue more of a how are we going to continue to align ourselves so that's it man to align ourselves so that's it man to align ourselves so that's it man there's not a rock there's not like some there's not a rock there's not like some there's not a rock there's not like some you know start rocket science and we you know start rocket science and we you know start rocket science and we don't have grand scheme it's this we're don't have grand scheme it's this we're don't have grand scheme it's this we're going to pray and pray and pray and pray going to pray and pray and pray and pray going to pray and pray and pray and pray and then we're going to say jesus what and then we're going to say jesus what and then we're going to say jesus what have you given us that's black and white have you given us that's black and white have you given us that's black and white in scripture because there's so much in scripture because there's so much in scripture because there's so much gray right but let's start with the gray right but let's start with the gray right but let's start with the black and white and not the gray and i black and white and not the gray and i black and white and not the gray and i feel like in my time in ministry and my feel like in my time in ministry and my feel like in my time in ministry and my buddies who are in ministry at different buddies who are in ministry at different buddies who are in ministry at different churches it seems like we get caught in churches it seems like we get caught in churches it seems like we get caught in the weeds of the gray the weeds of the gray the weeds of the gray so we pick and choose what we want and so we pick and choose what we want and so we pick and choose what we want and what will what will uh stand on what what will what will uh stand on what what will what will uh stand on what becomes our soapbox and we get diverted becomes our soapbox and we get diverted becomes our soapbox and we get diverted from the black and the white so we're from the black and the white so we're from the black and the white so we're trying to hone in on what does jesus say trying to hone in on what does jesus say trying to hone in on what does jesus say about being shepherds and and leaders about being shepherds and and leaders about being shepherds and and leaders and servants to the body very cool now and servants to the body very cool now and servants to the body very cool now how do you differentiate kind of the how do you differentiate kind of the how do you differentiate kind of the roles and responsibilities between um roles and responsibilities between um roles and responsibilities between um you know let's say lay elders and then you know let's say lay elders and then you know let's say lay elders and then staff elders how are those you know how

staff elders how are those you know how staff elders how are those you know how does that work out functionally in your does that work out functionally in your does that work out functionally in your church church church that's a great question man so we're that's a great question man so we're that's a great question man so we're just we're just starting to put a skin just we're just starting to put a skin just we're just starting to put a skin to that because our our pastoral uh to that because our our pastoral uh to that because our our pastoral uh elders right we're we're saying that elders right we're we're saying that elders right we're we're saying that when i say pastoral i don't mean that when i say pastoral i don't mean that when i say pastoral i don't mean that lay elders are not pastoring but just lay elders are not pastoring but just lay elders are not pastoring but just those who are vocationally called by god those who are vocationally called by god those who are vocationally called by god trained and you know all that kind of trained and you know all that kind of trained and you know all that kind of stuff and are serving on staff um those stuff and are serving on staff um those stuff and are serving on staff um those are more the ministry so i drew a ring are more the ministry so i drew a ring are more the ministry so i drew a ring if you could imagine two two rings like if you could imagine two two rings like if you could imagine two two rings like one inside the other everything inside one inside the other everything inside one inside the other everything inside that first ring that first ring that first ring is uh is uh is uh our staff elders right pastors who are our staff elders right pastors who are our staff elders right pastors who are shepherding them and so then you got shepherding them and so then you got shepherding them and so then you got this outer ring and the outer ring is this outer ring and the outer ring is this outer ring and the outer ring is where the lay holders and password where the lay holders and password where the lay holders and password elders come and so they become watchmen elders come and so they become watchmen elders come and so they become watchmen on the wall or in the old testament the on the wall or in the old testament the on the wall or in the old testament the gatekeepers that's the source of wisdom gatekeepers that's the source of wisdom gatekeepers that's the source of wisdom and wise counsel right that we just come and wise counsel right that we just come and wise counsel right that we just come to and see and these guys make sure that to and see and these guys make sure that to and see and these guys make sure that they're they're protecting the body from they're they're protecting the body from they're they're protecting the body from stuff getting in as well as us getting stuff getting in as well as us getting stuff getting in as well as us getting crazy in here making sure they have that crazy in here making sure they have that crazy in here making sure they have that right right right right to serve as that right right right right to serve as that right right right right to serve as that so they're not it's not controlling it's so they're not it's not controlling it's so they're not it's not controlling it's nothing like that but it really is uh we nothing like that but it really is uh we nothing like that but it really is uh we entrust them with this responsibility entrust them with this responsibility entrust them with this responsibility more than they enforce something and we more than they enforce something and we more than they enforce something and we meet on those outer parameters as elders meet on those outer parameters as elders meet on those outer parameters as elders to say okay you guys can see things from to say okay you guys can see things from to say okay you guys can see things from out here that we can't see so what do out here that we can't see so what do out here that we can't see so what do you see what do you feel and so it's a you see what do you feel and so it's a you see what do you feel and so it's a it's it's like that so our staff are it's it's like that so our staff are it's it's like that so our staff are ministering to the body the body uh ministering to the body the body uh ministering to the body the body uh administratively ministering to them administratively ministering to them administratively ministering to them functionally in terms of the ministry functionally in terms of the ministry functionally in terms of the ministry and the scope and trajectory of all that and the scope and trajectory of all that and the scope and trajectory of all that we're doing but then this outer ring we're doing but then this outer ring we're doing but then this outer ring these guys are serving as um as not

these guys are serving as um as not these guys are serving as um as not watched dogs but watch men watched dogs but watch men watched dogs but watch men and gatekeepers but also because uh and gatekeepers but also because uh and gatekeepers but also because uh they're in the mix as well they're in the mix as well they're in the mix as well they're among they're amidst the uh the they're among they're amidst the uh the they're among they're amidst the uh the body so just quick quick uh 10 second body so just quick quick uh 10 second body so just quick quick uh 10 second deal i'm just going back from tibet and deal i'm just going back from tibet and deal i'm just going back from tibet and in tibet you're watching all these in tibet you're watching all these in tibet you're watching all these nomads these herdsmen these shepherds nomads these herdsmen these shepherds nomads these herdsmen these shepherds with all these yaks with all these yaks with all these yaks it was interesting because i drew a it was interesting because i drew a it was interesting because i drew a diagram for our elders and said you know diagram for our elders and said you know diagram for our elders and said you know where the uh if you're going if you're where the uh if you're going if you're where the uh if you're going if you're going north where do you think the going north where do you think the going north where do you think the shepherd is and and most of them said at shepherd is and and most of them said at shepherd is and and most of them said at the very top and i said nope the very top and i said nope the very top and i said nope he's actually back back he's actually back back he's actually back back okay okay just watch them it just the okay okay just watch them it just the okay okay just watch them it just the the sheep know that the yak knew the the the sheep know that the yak knew the the the sheep know that the yak knew the the herd's been right so he would just start herd's been right so he would just start herd's been right so he would just start moving a direction they would follow but moving a direction they would follow but moving a direction they would follow but it was not in front he was just walking it was not in front he was just walking it was not in front he was just walking alongside them but then some would kind alongside them but then some would kind alongside them but then some would kind of stray so he'd walk through the pack of stray so he'd walk through the pack of stray so he'd walk through the pack over to this other side and start moving over to this other side and start moving over to this other side and start moving they would see him and then like oh okay they would see him and then like oh okay they would see him and then like oh okay so this way so he was just with them but so this way so he was just with them but so this way so he was just with them but also there was never just one also there was never just one also there was never just one there was multiple they were always just there was multiple they were always just there was multiple they were always just in different places and they were in different places and they were in different places and they were working together so see the whole the working together so see the whole the working together so see the whole the whole point of that is that there's not whole point of that is that there's not whole point of that is that there's not some guy at the very front saying i'm in some guy at the very front saying i'm in some guy at the very front saying i'm in charge follow me because he can't even charge follow me because he can't even charge follow me because he can't even see what's behind him then right but he see what's behind him then right but he see what's behind him then right but he was with them and moving amongst them was with them and moving amongst them was with them and moving amongst them and so having a team of shepherds like and so having a team of shepherds like and so having a team of shepherds like that i think makes for a healthy church that i think makes for a healthy church that i think makes for a healthy church absolutely i think there's a lot of absolutely i think there's a lot of absolutely i think there's a lot of church leaders are maybe tempted or are church leaders are maybe tempted or are church leaders are maybe tempted or are you know maybe under the wrong notion of you know maybe under the wrong notion of you know maybe under the wrong notion of really it's it's about a person or a really it's it's about a person or a really it's it's about a person or a personality and they really push away personality and they really push away personality and they really push away from kind of team leadership how are you

from kind of team leadership how are you from kind of team leadership how are you as the senior leader in your church kind as the senior leader in your church kind as the senior leader in your church kind of stewarding that you obviously have a of stewarding that you obviously have a of stewarding that you obviously have a unique uh voice within you know your unique uh voice within you know your unique uh voice within you know your team but you're also trying to bring team but you're also trying to bring team but you're also trying to bring people around you you know what does people around you you know what does people around you you know what does that tension look like for you and how that tension look like for you and how that tension look like for you and how are you kind of managing that with your are you kind of managing that with your are you kind of managing that with your people people people does that make sense yeah so i think the way that we operate yeah so i think the way that we operate here the best way that i can define that here the best way that i can define that here the best way that i can define that is we is we is we there are some strong leaders out there there are some strong leaders out there there are some strong leaders out there man that are just are kind of lone man that are just are kind of lone man that are just are kind of lone rangers and they're gifted they're rangers and they're gifted they're rangers and they're gifted they're really good that's not my my strong suit really good that's not my my strong suit really good that's not my my strong suit i'm a team guy so i lead relationally i'm a team guy so i lead relationally i'm a team guy so i lead relationally that's got its uh it's flaws and it's that's got its uh it's flaws and it's that's got its uh it's flaws and it's got its weaknesses right but i'm i'm got its weaknesses right but i'm i'm got its weaknesses right but i'm i'm highly highly relational and so i highly highly relational and so i highly highly relational and so i function better uh i do a lot of function better uh i do a lot of function better uh i do a lot of leadership development and did before i leadership development and did before i leadership development and did before i came here and that's really what i love came here and that's really what i love came here and that's really what i love is i want to develop a team that that is i want to develop a team that that is i want to develop a team that that works together and loves on each other i works together and loves on each other i works together and loves on each other i thought the multiplication process is thought the multiplication process is thought the multiplication process is greater that way for me anyway the way greater that way for me anyway the way greater that way for me anyway the way i'm bent and so i just lead relationally i'm bent and so i just lead relationally i'm bent and so i just lead relationally and so um my time here has has largely and so um my time here has has largely and so um my time here has has largely been spent and trying to develop been spent and trying to develop been spent and trying to develop unity right as the bible speaks of this unity right as the bible speaks of this unity right as the bible speaks of this unity but not in terms of being in one unity but not in terms of being in one unity but not in terms of being in one mind that we all agree on every decision mind that we all agree on every decision mind that we all agree on every decision but being in one mind that we agree on but being in one mind that we agree on but being in one mind that we agree on the most important decision that's that the most important decision that's that the most important decision that's that we're just following christ so when paul we're just following christ so when paul we're just following christ so when paul said follow me as i follow christ that's said follow me as i follow christ that's said follow me as i follow christ that's exactly what i'm trying to model not exactly what i'm trying to model not exactly what i'm trying to model not just for my church but for my staff to just for my church but for my staff to just for my church but for my staff to say hey listen i'm not telling you say hey listen i'm not telling you say hey listen i'm not telling you follow me as a person i'm saying follow follow me as a person i'm saying follow follow me as a person i'm saying follow me as i lead us to follow jesus and if me as i lead us to follow jesus and if me as i lead us to follow jesus and if at any point you feel like i'm off and at any point you feel like i'm off and at any point you feel like i'm off and i'm not following jesus you don't just

i'm not following jesus you don't just i'm not following jesus you don't just have the right you have the have the right you have the have the right you have the responsibility to say hey uh pastor clay responsibility to say hey uh pastor clay responsibility to say hey uh pastor clay i just i think that man we're off a i just i think that man we're off a i just i think that man we're off a little bit here and i'm completely open little bit here and i'm completely open little bit here and i'm completely open to that this is the unseminary podcast to that this is the unseminary podcast to that this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're gonna jump into the lightning well we're gonna jump into the lightning well we're gonna jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where oh round that part of the episode where oh round that part of the episode where oh we asked similar questions of everybody we asked similar questions of everybody we asked similar questions of everybody that's on the episode super excited to that's on the episode super excited to that's on the episode super excited to have clay with us today from faith have clay with us today from faith have clay with us today from faith christian community great church in christian community great church in christian community great church in anchorage alaska you really should be anchorage alaska you really should be anchorage alaska you really should be following them if you aren't what's an following them if you aren't what's an following them if you aren't what's an online resource you're using these days online resource you're using these days online resource you're using these days that you're finding helpful that you're finding helpful that you're finding helpful yeah so you know i get a lot of those e yeah so you know i get a lot of those e yeah so you know i get a lot of those e newsletters from uh from a small group newsletters from uh from a small group newsletters from uh from a small group you know church small group church you know church small group church you know church small group church leaders uh those online magazines are leaders uh those online magazines are leaders uh those online magazines are super helpful for me also i uh i'm stuck super helpful for me also i uh i'm stuck super helpful for me also i uh i'm stuck on like low you know logos i use on like low you know logos i use on like low you know logos i use both online stuff the resources as well both online stuff the resources as well both online stuff the resources as well as the uh fairly expensive as the uh fairly expensive as the uh fairly expensive that you purchase for all that so that you purchase for all that so that you purchase for all that so evernote you know reading people's blogs evernote you know reading people's blogs evernote you know reading people's blogs and and and so i just i try to stay connected that so i just i try to stay connected that so i just i try to stay connected that way with great leaders around the world way with great leaders around the world way with great leaders around the world fantastic what's a book you've read in fantastic what's a book you've read in fantastic what's a book you've read in the last i don't know six months to a the last i don't know six months to a the last i don't know six months to a year that's shaping your thinking or year that's shaping your thinking or year that's shaping your thinking or ministry yeah so uh walking with god by ministry yeah so uh walking with god by ministry yeah so uh walking with god by john eldredge is just a tremendous john eldredge is just a tremendous john eldredge is just a tremendous resource also a jesus only old school resource also a jesus only old school resource also a jesus only old school old school book by vance hafner and you old school book by vance hafner and you old school book by vance hafner and you talk about br it was almost like a talk about br it was almost like a talk about br it was almost like a pamphlet pamphlet pamphlet centering around that also um that i may centering around that also um that i may centering around that also um that i may know god uh by uh kenneth boa another know god uh by uh kenneth boa another know god uh by uh kenneth boa another great read it's just bringing you back great read it's just bringing you back great read it's just bringing you back out of the clouds into reality walking out of the clouds into reality walking out of the clouds into reality walking where you're walking now very cool where you're walking now very cool where you're walking now very cool what's another ministry you're looking

what's another ministry you're looking what's another ministry you're looking to that's inspiring you these days to that's inspiring you these days to that's inspiring you these days i'm telling you i'm telling you i'm telling you over the years we've watched over the years we've watched over the years we've watched um um um a gateway church in south lake they have a gateway church in south lake they have a gateway church in south lake they have campuses all over the place but the main campuses all over the place but the main campuses all over the place but the main campus is south lake uh pastored by campus is south lake uh pastored by campus is south lake uh pastored by robert morris and his team you know robert morris and his team you know robert morris and his team you know there's no such thing as the perfect new there's no such thing as the perfect new there's no such thing as the perfect new testament model but they're as close as testament model but they're as close as testament model but they're as close as it gets in my opinion just such an it gets in my opinion just such an it gets in my opinion just such an amazing church with amazing leadership amazing church with amazing leadership amazing church with amazing leadership very cool if you could get 15 minutes very cool if you could get 15 minutes very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive i think i might with any leader alive i think i might with any leader alive i think i might know who you'd say who could you get know who you'd say who could you get know who you'd say who could you get that with and why well you know not that that with and why well you know not that that with and why well you know not that he's a super saint but honestly robert he's a super saint but honestly robert he's a super saint but honestly robert morris he's a busy guy we've had morris he's a busy guy we've had morris he's a busy guy we've had opportunities in the past but uh you opportunities in the past but uh you opportunities in the past but uh you know you never want to bother a guy know you never want to bother a guy know you never want to bother a guy who's busy right but honestly robert who's busy right but honestly robert who's busy right but honestly robert morris just how does you how do you lead morris just how does you how do you lead morris just how does you how do you lead such a great church with such humility such a great church with such humility such a great church with such humility and such determination and such and such determination and such and such determination and such effectiveness and just just look like effectiveness and just just look like effectiveness and just just look like you look and be like you are very cool you look and be like you are very cool you look and be like you are very cool well i'm sure leading uh you know at the well i'm sure leading uh you know at the well i'm sure leading uh you know at the church obviously keeps you busy keeps church obviously keeps you busy keeps church obviously keeps you busy keeps you hopping uh you got a lot going on you hopping uh you got a lot going on you hopping uh you got a lot going on growing you know ministry there clay uh growing you know ministry there clay uh growing you know ministry there clay uh when you're you know just want to kick when you're you know just want to kick when you're you know just want to kick back and relax a little bit what do you back and relax a little bit what do you back and relax a little bit what do you do for fun do for fun do for fun oh rich we're in we're in alaska right oh rich we're in we're in alaska right oh rich we're in we're in alaska right so right so we sit just anything outdoors we have some of just anything outdoors we have some of the best hiking and and uh mountains the best hiking and and uh mountains the best hiking and and uh mountains around here of course and dreams of fish around here of course and dreams of fish around here of course and dreams of fish ocean to fish ocean to fish ocean to fish hunting so anything that you can imagine hunting so anything that you can imagine hunting so anything that you can imagine that would be outside the four walls that would be outside the four walls that would be outside the four walls that i'm in now that's what i love nice that i'm in now that's what i love nice that i'm in now that's what i love nice well thank you so much for being on the well thank you so much for being on the well thank you so much for being on the show today i really appreciate it if show today i really appreciate it if show today i really appreciate it if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or the church how can they do that the church how can they do that the church how can they do that faithak.com

f-a-i-t-h-a-k-dot-com and that tells you f-a-i-t-h-a-k-dot-com and that tells you everything about who we are watch any of everything about who we are watch any of everything about who we are watch any of our messages online our worship services our messages online our worship services our messages online our worship services we record as well separately and those we record as well separately and those we record as well separately and those are those are online as well great are those are online as well great are those are online as well great really appreciate that clay thanks for really appreciate that clay thanks for really appreciate that clay thanks for your time today thank you very much your time today thank you very much your time today thank you very much thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at richburch or through email rich richburch or through email rich richburch or through email rich unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary tuning in to this week's on seminary tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary