The 3-Campus Ceiling: Why Churches Stall (and How to Move Again)

Hey friends, thanks for tuning in. Today Hey friends, thanks for tuning in. Today we're talking about multicight and we're talking about multicight and we're talking about multicight and particularly this pernitious problem particularly this pernitious problem particularly this pernitious problem that I like to call the three campus that I like to call the three campus that I like to call the three campus ceiling. I want to help you unpack why ceiling. I want to help you unpack why ceiling. I want to help you unpack why your church might be stalled at three your church might be stalled at three your church might be stalled at three locations and more importantly where to locations and more importantly where to locations and more importantly where to move from here. You know, I've been move from here. You know, I've been move from here. You know, I've been involved in multicight for a very long involved in multicight for a very long involved in multicight for a very long time, like two and a half decades, 25 time, like two and a half decades, 25 time, like two and a half decades, 25 plus years, which seems crazy to me. plus years, which seems crazy to me. plus years, which seems crazy to me. When we first started doing multicight, When we first started doing multicight, When we first started doing multicight, we didn't even call it multicight. We we didn't even call it multicight. We we didn't even call it multicight. We were just solving a very real problem at were just solving a very real problem at were just solving a very real problem at our church. The probably the closest our church. The probably the closest our church. The probably the closest thing we called it was video overflow, thing we called it was video overflow, thing we called it was video overflow, but it was 45 minutes away. We didn't we but it was 45 minutes away. We didn't we but it was 45 minutes away. We didn't we just would call it that thing over just would call it that thing over just would call it that thing over there. And so every week we would there. And so every week we would there. And so every week we would produce a video in our weekend service produce a video in our weekend service produce a video in our weekend service and we would get it over there to that and we would get it over there to that and we would get it over there to that new location. How did we get the video new location. How did we get the video new location. How did we get the video there? Well, that's a story. So, we had there? Well, that's a story. So, we had there? Well, that's a story. So, we had two services at that time. We're about two services at that time. We're about two services at that time. We're about an hour and 15 minute long services. And an hour and 15 minute long services. And an hour and 15 minute long services. And we would have the 9:00 service and the we would have the 9:00 service and the we would have the 9:00 service and the teaching, you know, we have music and, teaching, you know, we have music and, teaching, you know, we have music and, you know, announcements, all that stuff. you know, announcements, all that stuff. you know, announcements, all that stuff. And then the teaching would begin. And And then the teaching would begin. And And then the teaching would begin. And then at the end of the service, again, then at the end of the service, again, then at the end of the service, again, at about 10:15, the guy on the tech at about 10:15, the guy on the tech at about 10:15, the guy on the tech booth, and it was often a guy, would hit booth, and it was often a guy, would hit booth, and it was often a guy, would hit eject on the SVHS tape, old school VHS eject on the SVHS tape, old school VHS eject on the SVHS tape, old school VHS tape. He would hit eject and hand it to tape. He would hit eject and hand it to tape. He would hit eject and hand it to another guy that was just outside our another guy that was just outside our another guy that was just outside our back door who was in his car. And then back door who was in his car. And then back door who was in his car. And then that person would get into their vehicle that person would get into their vehicle that person would get into their vehicle and there used to be these video stores and there used to be these video stores and there used to be these video stores out there called Blockbuster.

out there called Blockbuster. out there called Blockbuster. And Blockbuster had these tape And Blockbuster had these tape And Blockbuster had these tape rewinders. You'd put the tape in, slam rewinders. You'd put the tape in, slam rewinders. You'd put the tape in, slam it down, and it would fast rewind the it down, and it would fast rewind the it down, and it would fast rewind the tape. Well, he had jerryrigged one of tape. Well, he had jerryrigged one of tape. Well, he had jerryrigged one of those to his car, and as he was speeding those to his car, and as he was speeding those to his car, and as he was speeding down the road, it was about a 45minute down the road, it was about a 45minute down the road, it was about a 45minute drive. Again, they would start at 11:00 drive. Again, they would start at 11:00 drive. Again, they would start at 11:00 a.m. in this new location, so there was a.m. in this new location, so there was a.m. in this new location, so there was really no time to spare. This tape really no time to spare. This tape really no time to spare. This tape rewinder would rewind the tape all the rewinder would rewind the tape all the rewinder would rewind the tape all the way back to the beginning. Then he would way back to the beginning. Then he would way back to the beginning. Then he would arrive at 11:00 a.m. and the music would arrive at 11:00 a.m. and the music would arrive at 11:00 a.m. and the music would be going. We had some sort of host that be going. We had some sort of host that be going. We had some sort of host that was there. We didn't know what to call was there. We didn't know what to call was there. We didn't know what to call them and that they would hand that tape them and that they would hand that tape them and that they would hand that tape to someone in the room who would then to someone in the room who would then to someone in the room who would then press play. It was terrible, but it was press play. It was terrible, but it was press play. It was terrible, but it was the beginning of what we now called the beginning of what we now called the beginning of what we now called multicight. But, you know, looking back multicight. But, you know, looking back multicight. But, you know, looking back at it, what we really were doing was at it, what we really were doing was at it, what we really were doing was stretching a system far beyond what it stretching a system far beyond what it stretching a system far beyond what it was designed to handle. It makes sense was designed to handle. It makes sense was designed to handle. It makes sense to you now that that was not scalable. to you now that that was not scalable. to you now that that was not scalable. But at the time, we didn't know that. We But at the time, we didn't know that. We But at the time, we didn't know that. We were just solving a problem. And that's were just solving a problem. And that's were just solving a problem. And that's exactly what a lot of our churches are exactly what a lot of our churches are exactly what a lot of our churches are doing today, multi-sight churches. We've doing today, multi-sight churches. We've doing today, multi-sight churches. We've designed a system that isn't scalable.

designed a system that isn't scalable. designed a system that isn't scalable. And we end up at this three campus And we end up at this three campus And we end up at this three campus ceiling. And I want to help you unpack ceiling. And I want to help you unpack ceiling. And I want to help you unpack that today. What do I mean by the three that today. What do I mean by the three that today. What do I mean by the three campus ceiling? Well, here it is. 80% if campus ceiling? Well, here it is. 80% if campus ceiling? Well, here it is. 80% if we were to go out and survey multi-sight we were to go out and survey multi-sight we were to go out and survey multi-sight churches, 80 plus% of multi-sight churches, 80 plus% of multi-sight churches, 80 plus% of multi-sight leadership teams would say that they leadership teams would say that they leadership teams would say that they want to launch more locations. However, want to launch more locations. However, want to launch more locations. However, 65% of multi-sight churches are stuck at 65% of multi-sight churches are stuck at 65% of multi-sight churches are stuck at a total of three locations. What does a total of three locations. What does a total of three locations. What does that mean? Way more churches are out that mean? Way more churches are out that mean? Way more churches are out there saying they want to do more there saying they want to do more there saying they want to do more locations than are actually doing them locations than are actually doing them locations than are actually doing them today. Most churches don't stop today. Most churches don't stop today. Most churches don't stop multiplying because they lose vision. multiplying because they lose vision. multiplying because they lose vision. They stop because their support their They stop because their support their They stop because their support their systems can't support doing it again. So systems can't support doing it again. So systems can't support doing it again. So we assume listen and and I love me some we assume listen and and I love me some we assume listen and and I love me some lead pastors. I spent most of my time as lead pastors. I spent most of my time as lead pastors. I spent most of my time as an executive pastor or executive pastor an executive pastor or executive pastor an executive pastor or executive pastor adjacent roles and I love lead pastors. adjacent roles and I love lead pastors. adjacent roles and I love lead pastors. But our assumption and a lots of lead But our assumption and a lots of lead But our assumption and a lots of lead pastors our assumption is if we just pastors our assumption is if we just pastors our assumption is if we just cast a more compelling vision, if we cast a more compelling vision, if we cast a more compelling vision, if we just rally the team, frankly, if we just just rally the team, frankly, if we just just rally the team, frankly, if we just push harder, we can get these things to push harder, we can get these things to push harder, we can get these things to launch. And that's not it. The first launch. And that's not it. The first launch. And that's not it. The first campus stretches you. The second begins campus stretches you. The second begins campus stretches you. The second begins to expose cracks. By the third, you to expose cracks. By the third, you to expose cracks. By the third, you really start to feel the weight. Now, really start to feel the weight. Now, really start to feel the weight. Now, every time that you start thinking, every time that you start thinking, every time that you start thinking, talking about launching again, there's a talking about launching again, there's a talking about launching again, there's a quiet hesitation in the room. You still

quiet hesitation in the room. You still quiet hesitation in the room. You still believe in it. You still believe in believe in it. You still believe in believe in it. You still believe in multiplication, but you also remember multiplication, but you also remember multiplication, but you also remember the cost of the last time. And that the cost of the last time. And that the cost of the last time. And that memory sits in the back of every memory sits in the back of every memory sits in the back of every conversation. So, here's really the conversation. So, here's really the conversation. So, here's really the takeaway for you. One to two is mostly takeaway for you. One to two is mostly takeaway for you. One to two is mostly about courage. Two to three is about about courage. Two to three is about about courage. Two to three is about more complexity. Three and beyond, more complexity. Three and beyond, more complexity. Three and beyond, you've got to build systems to really you've got to build systems to really you've got to build systems to really support that. Communication gets harder. support that. Communication gets harder. support that. Communication gets harder. Decisions slowed down. Costs feel Decisions slowed down. Costs feel Decisions slowed down. Costs feel heavier. Relationships between campus heavier. Relationships between campus heavier. Relationships between campus and central can become strained. It and central can become strained. It and central can become strained. It isn't because you chose to stop. It's isn't because you chose to stop. It's isn't because you chose to stop. It's because your systems made the decision because your systems made the decision because your systems made the decision for you. And so I want to unpack for you for you. And so I want to unpack for you for you. And so I want to unpack for you what I call the clear framework. It just what I call the clear framework. It just what I call the clear framework. It just starts with the first letter of the the starts with the first letter of the the starts with the first letter of the the word clear. C L E A R. Churches don't word clear. C L E A R. Churches don't word clear. C L E A R. Churches don't break through by wanting to multiply break through by wanting to multiply break through by wanting to multiply more. They break through by be building more. They break through by be building more. They break through by be building clearer, more prepared, more repeatable clearer, more prepared, more repeatable clearer, more prepared, more repeatable systems. So, let's talk through the systems. So, let's talk through the systems. So, let's talk through the clear framework and maybe it will help clear framework and maybe it will help clear framework and maybe it will help your team wrestle as you're thinking your team wrestle as you're thinking your team wrestle as you're thinking about campus three and beyond. All about campus three and beyond. All about campus three and beyond. All right. So, C clarify central and campus.

right. So, C clarify central and campus. right. So, C clarify central and campus. Clarify campus and central. Well, here's Clarify campus and central. Well, here's Clarify campus and central. Well, here's the core tension. Uh beyond a couple the core tension. Uh beyond a couple the core tension. Uh beyond a couple locations, you are leading what's called locations, you are leading what's called locations, you are leading what's called a matrix organization. And so, you know, a matrix organization. And so, you know, a matrix organization. And so, you know, you might be aware of the typical you might be aware of the typical you might be aware of the typical pyramid organization where like a pyramid organization where like a pyramid organization where like a everybody has a single boss and that all everybody has a single boss and that all everybody has a single boss and that all reports up to some grand pooha leader at reports up to some grand pooha leader at reports up to some grand pooha leader at the top that makes all the decisions. the top that makes all the decisions. the top that makes all the decisions. But a matrix organization, which But a matrix organization, which But a matrix organization, which multi-sight churches beyond a couple multi-sight churches beyond a couple multi-sight churches beyond a couple locations are by definition have both a locations are by definition have both a locations are by definition have both a central leadership team and a campus central leadership team and a campus central leadership team and a campus leadership team. Now you maybe haven't leadership team. Now you maybe haven't leadership team. Now you maybe haven't uh formally identified that but you do uh formally identified that but you do uh formally identified that but you do have that there are people that are have that there are people that are have that there are people that are responsible for things in a particular responsible for things in a particular responsible for things in a particular location and then there are people that location and then there are people that location and then there are people that are responsible for things across all are responsible for things across all are responsible for things across all your locations. But can I be honest your locations. But can I be honest your locations. But can I be honest here? We see this relationship getting here? We see this relationship getting here? We see this relationship getting frayed at three and beyond particularly frayed at three and beyond particularly frayed at three and beyond particularly the relationship between campus and the relationship between campus and the relationship between campus and central though is not a problem to be central though is not a problem to be central though is not a problem to be solved. It's a tension to be managed.

solved. It's a tension to be managed. solved. It's a tension to be managed. Listen, come close. Come close. If Listen, come close. Come close. If Listen, come close. Come close. If you're here today and you've got tension you're here today and you've got tension you're here today and you've got tension between your campus and central people, between your campus and central people, between your campus and central people, you're not doing something wrong. That's you're not doing something wrong. That's you're not doing something wrong. That's literally built into the model. It's a literally built into the model. It's a literally built into the model. It's a part of a matrix system. And rather than part of a matrix system. And rather than part of a matrix system. And rather than trying to find some easy solution or trying to find some easy solution or trying to find some easy solution or thinking that there's some easy thinking that there's some easy thinking that there's some easy solution, what you need to understand is solution, what you need to understand is solution, what you need to understand is that campus teams do something different that campus teams do something different that campus teams do something different than central teams. We need to make sure than central teams. We need to make sure than central teams. We need to make sure that both sides of this equation are that both sides of this equation are that both sides of this equation are super clear. So central people generally super clear. So central people generally super clear. So central people generally are responsible for systems and are responsible for systems and are responsible for systems and curriculum. How do we get this to work curriculum. How do we get this to work curriculum. How do we get this to work across all of our multiple locations? across all of our multiple locations? across all of our multiple locations? Campus people, they're responsible for Campus people, they're responsible for Campus people, they're responsible for people and execution. Who showed up? Are people and execution. Who showed up? Are people and execution. Who showed up? Are people getting connected? What are we people getting connected? What are we people getting connected? What are we doing with the firsttime guests that doing with the firsttime guests that doing with the firsttime guests that arrived yesterday to make sure that they arrived yesterday to make sure that they arrived yesterday to make sure that they feel loved and connected? Friends of feel loved and connected? Friends of feel loved and connected? Friends of mine say it like this. Central writes mine say it like this. Central writes mine say it like this. Central writes the play, campus runs the play. So, you the play, campus runs the play. So, you the play, campus runs the play. So, you know, this can break down in a lot of know, this can break down in a lot of know, this can break down in a lot of different places. I It's not because different places. I It's not because different places. I It's not because you've picked the wrong model, but it's you've picked the wrong model, but it's you've picked the wrong model, but it's often because you're not clear on a who often because you're not clear on a who often because you're not clear on a who is on central and who's on campus or b is on central and who's on campus or b is on central and who's on campus or b what they're supposed to be doing. And what they're supposed to be doing. And what they're supposed to be doing. And that leads to frustration. It leads to that leads to frustration. It leads to that leads to frustration. It leads to triangulation. It leads to those mom triangulation. It leads to those mom triangulation. It leads to those mom versus dad dynamics. You know, when you versus dad dynamics. You know, when you versus dad dynamics. You know, when you were a kid and if dad said no, then were a kid and if dad said no, then were a kid and if dad said no, then you'd go to mom. Or if mom said no, you'd go to mom. Or if mom said no, you'd go to mom. Or if mom said no, you'd go to dad. Well, people will do you'd go to dad. Well, people will do you'd go to dad. Well, people will do that in multicight. If central says no, that in multicight. If central says no, that in multicight. If central says no, then I'll go to my campus leader. If my

then I'll go to my campus leader. If my then I'll go to my campus leader. If my campus leader says no, then I'll go to campus leader says no, then I'll go to campus leader says no, then I'll go to my central leader. We've got to make it my central leader. We've got to make it my central leader. We've got to make it clear on who is responsible for what. clear on who is responsible for what. clear on who is responsible for what. And listen, listen, before we get to who And listen, listen, before we get to who And listen, listen, before we get to who is the boss because often times these is the boss because often times these is the boss because often times these conversations, they degenerate down to conversations, they degenerate down to conversations, they degenerate down to well, but who's responsible? They end up well, but who's responsible? They end up well, but who's responsible? They end up in these like power up conversations. in these like power up conversations. in these like power up conversations. Who can fire somebody? who gets to make Who can fire somebody? who gets to make Who can fire somebody? who gets to make the ultimate choice, that sort of thing. the ultimate choice, that sort of thing. the ultimate choice, that sort of thing. And listen, if your church is operating And listen, if your church is operating And listen, if your church is operating at who gets to make the ultimate choice, at who gets to make the ultimate choice, at who gets to make the ultimate choice, WHO GETS TO FIRE somebody kind of WHO GETS TO FIRE somebody kind of WHO GETS TO FIRE somebody kind of language all the time, you've got bigger language all the time, you've got bigger language all the time, you've got bigger issues. What we've got to do is build issues. What we've got to do is build issues. What we've got to do is build towards clarity and trust. Acknowledge towards clarity and trust. Acknowledge towards clarity and trust. Acknowledge that there is a tension to be managed that there is a tension to be managed that there is a tension to be managed here. that if this is done well, there here. that if this is done well, there here. that if this is done well, there still is going to be a tension between still is going to be a tension between still is going to be a tension between campus and central by design. Better campus and central by design. Better campus and central by design. Better questions than who's the boss is who questions than who's the boss is who questions than who's the boss is who owns this, who's contributing to this, owns this, who's contributing to this, owns this, who's contributing to this, who decides, who is executing on these who decides, who is executing on these who decides, who is executing on these various issues. I like to call it the various issues. I like to call it the various issues. I like to call it the Tuesday afternoon test. If your youth Tuesday afternoon test. If your youth Tuesday afternoon test. If your youth pastor or really any team member in a pastor or really any team member in a pastor or really any team member in a campus on a random Tuesday afternoon campus on a random Tuesday afternoon campus on a random Tuesday afternoon runs into a problem and they don't know runs into a problem and they don't know runs into a problem and they don't know who to talk to, you don't have clarity who to talk to, you don't have clarity who to talk to, you don't have clarity yet. This is a huge issue. You've got to yet. This is a huge issue. You've got to yet. This is a huge issue. You've got to work to get very clear between what are work to get very clear between what are work to get very clear between what are the pieces of the puzzle that central the pieces of the puzzle that central the pieces of the puzzle that central and I would say systems and curriculum and I would say systems and curriculum and I would say systems and curriculum and campus. I would say people and and campus. I would say people and and campus. I would say people and execution own. But it's not just you

execution own. But it's not just you execution own. But it's not just you know checklist. It's not just what you know checklist. It's not just what you know checklist. It's not just what you can fit into paper or maybe into a can fit into paper or maybe into a can fit into paper or maybe into a spreadsheet. There's also the relational spreadsheet. There's also the relational spreadsheet. There's also the relational work. The churches that have been able work. The churches that have been able work. The churches that have been able to accelerate beyond 5, 6, 7, 10 to accelerate beyond 5, 6, 7, 10 to accelerate beyond 5, 6, 7, 10 locations, they understand that there's locations, they understand that there's locations, they understand that there's a relational substrate that happens a relational substrate that happens a relational substrate that happens beneath all of these checklists and and beneath all of these checklists and and beneath all of these checklists and and don't skip that. You've got to be don't skip that. You've got to be don't skip that. You've got to be investing to ensure that your campus and investing to ensure that your campus and investing to ensure that your campus and central people have healthy, strong central people have healthy, strong central people have healthy, strong relationships. When trust is high, this relationships. When trust is high, this relationships. When trust is high, this tension is manageable. But when trust is tension is manageable. But when trust is tension is manageable. But when trust is low, this tension becomes conflict. So low, this tension becomes conflict. So low, this tension becomes conflict. So what do you need to do in the first of what do you need to do in the first of what do you need to do in the first of these areas to become clear? You need to these areas to become clear? You need to these areas to become clear? You need to clarify campus and central. All right. clarify campus and central. All right. clarify campus and central. All right. Number two, locate and develop your next Number two, locate and develop your next Number two, locate and develop your next leaders. Okay. So, I was talking to a leaders. Okay. So, I was talking to a leaders. Okay. So, I was talking to a prevailing multi-sight church recently prevailing multi-sight church recently prevailing multi-sight church recently and the lead pastor said to me, leaned and the lead pastor said to me, leaned and the lead pastor said to me, leaned in and said, "Listen, Rich, I think we in and said, "Listen, Rich, I think we in and said, "Listen, Rich, I think we could launch three locations in the next could launch three locations in the next could launch three locations in the next year. We've got the locations. We've got year. We've got the locations. We've got year. We've got the locations. We've got the financial resources to do it. I the financial resources to do it. I the financial resources to do it. I think we can rally the volunteers, but I think we can rally the volunteers, but I think we can rally the volunteers, but I cannot find campus pastors. I can't find cannot find campus pastors. I can't find cannot find campus pastors. I can't find people to lead these things. We can't people to lead these things. We can't people to lead these things. We can't find the right campus pastor." Listen find the right campus pastor." Listen find the right campus pastor." Listen friends, lean in. Lean in. Lead in. Nine friends, lean in. Lean in. Lead in. Nine friends, lean in. Lean in. Lead in. Nine out of 10 campus fa pastors are being out of 10 campus fa pastors are being out of 10 campus fa pastors are being found internally. So this is the thing found internally. So this is the thing found internally. So this is the thing friends. If you do not have a pipeline friends. If you do not have a pipeline friends. If you do not have a pipeline of future campus pastors, you do not of future campus pastors, you do not of future campus pastors, you do not have a future in multicight. You've got

have a future in multicight. You've got have a future in multicight. You've got to build the bench of campus leaders to build the bench of campus leaders to build the bench of campus leaders today to get ready for the future. today to get ready for the future. today to get ready for the future. You've got to start working on that You've got to start working on that You've got to start working on that today and not waiting for someday for today and not waiting for someday for today and not waiting for someday for them to start showing up. Listen, you them to start showing up. Listen, you them to start showing up. Listen, you need to be thinking more like a farmer, need to be thinking more like a farmer, need to be thinking more like a farmer, less like a hunter. I hear too many lead less like a hunter. I hear too many lead less like a hunter. I hear too many lead pastors or executive pastors or senior pastors or executive pastors or senior pastors or executive pastors or senior leaders think, "Where do I find them?" leaders think, "Where do I find them?" leaders think, "Where do I find them?" And it's like they they think, "Well, And it's like they they think, "Well, And it's like they they think, "Well, I'm going to do a national search. I'm I'm going to do a national search. I'm I'm going to do a national search. I'm going to look across the country and going to look across the country and going to look across the country and find these people." No, no. They're in find these people." No, no. They're in find these people." No, no. They're in your backyard. They're in your church your backyard. They're in your church your backyard. They're in your church today. What you've got to do is create today. What you've got to do is create today. What you've got to do is create fishing ponds. What do I call the What fishing ponds. What do I call the What fishing ponds. What do I call the What do I mean by fishing ponds? Fishing do I mean by fishing ponds? Fishing do I mean by fishing ponds? Fishing ponds are informal environments where ponds are informal environments where ponds are informal environments where you as senior leaders, the people that you as senior leaders, the people that you as senior leaders, the people that are going to make these decisions around are going to make these decisions around are going to make these decisions around who are these campus pastors where you who are these campus pastors where you who are these campus pastors where you can see these people surface. These are can see these people surface. These are can see these people surface. These are leadership book clubs. Each of the leadership book clubs. Each of the leadership book clubs. Each of the people on your lead team find 10 people people on your lead team find 10 people people on your lead team find 10 people in the church and say, "Hey, we're going in the church and say, "Hey, we're going in the church and say, "Hey, we're going to read a book. Let's read this book to read a book. Let's read this book to read a book. Let's read this book together and we'll set up a Slack together and we'll set up a Slack together and we'll set up a Slack channel. We can chat about it while channel. We can chat about it while channel. We can chat about it while we're reading and at the end of the 3 we're reading and at the end of the 3 we're reading and at the end of the 3 months we're going to get together. You months we're going to get together. You months we're going to get together. You know, put that out to 10 people. See who know, put that out to 10 people. See who know, put that out to 10 people. See who shows up. Do that for a year. get the shows up. Do that for a year. get the shows up. Do that for a year. get the same people through a bunch of groups same people through a bunch of groups same people through a bunch of groups and start to see who are the leaders and start to see who are the leaders and start to see who are the leaders that are leading in. Uh maybe it's that are leading in. Uh maybe it's that are leading in. Uh maybe it's quarterly gatherings for highcapacity quarterly gatherings for highcapacity quarterly gatherings for highcapacity volunteers, you know, those leaders of volunteers, you know, those leaders of volunteers, you know, those leaders of leaders already in your church. What if leaders already in your church. What if leaders already in your church. What if you started to get those people together you started to get those people together you started to get those people together for some deliberately optional training for some deliberately optional training for some deliberately optional training and see who shows up, see who keeps and see who shows up, see who keeps and see who shows up, see who keeps being a part of those conversations?

being a part of those conversations? being a part of those conversations? Again, fishing ponds, places where you Again, fishing ponds, places where you Again, fishing ponds, places where you are relationally connected with those. are relationally connected with those. are relationally connected with those. And don't forget cohorts of emerging And don't forget cohorts of emerging And don't forget cohorts of emerging leaders. Listen, all of our churches leaders. Listen, all of our churches leaders. Listen, all of our churches have to be obsessed with thinking about have to be obsessed with thinking about have to be obsessed with thinking about the next generation. And a campus pastor the next generation. And a campus pastor the next generation. And a campus pastor role is a great role for younger role is a great role for younger role is a great role for younger leaders. So what are you doing to leaders. So what are you doing to leaders. So what are you doing to connect with leaders in their 20s and connect with leaders in their 20s and connect with leaders in their 20s and 30s? How can you find a way to interact 30s? How can you find a way to interact 30s? How can you find a way to interact with these kinds of leaders to then with these kinds of leaders to then with these kinds of leaders to then raise them up and say, "Hey, maybe we raise them up and say, "Hey, maybe we raise them up and say, "Hey, maybe we could see you take step." Listen, the could see you take step." Listen, the could see you take step." Listen, the goal of these fish fishing ponds isn't goal of these fish fishing ponds isn't goal of these fish fishing ponds isn't training. It's observation. How do you training. It's observation. How do you training. It's observation. How do you know who's ready to lead a campus? know who's ready to lead a campus? know who's ready to lead a campus? They're already leading today. They're They're already leading today. They're They're already leading today. They're doing something where they're leading doing something where they're leading doing something where they're leading others today. Who shows up consistently, others today. Who shows up consistently, others today. Who shows up consistently, who leans in, who thinks like an owner, who leans in, who thinks like an owner, who leans in, who thinks like an owner, who goes beyond just being kind of the who goes beyond just being kind of the who goes beyond just being kind of the minimal thing. That is where you find minimal thing. That is where you find minimal thing. That is where you find your campus pastors. If you don't let your campus pastors. If you don't let your campus pastors. If you don't let people feel the weight of leadership people feel the weight of leadership people feel the weight of leadership before they become a campus pastor, before they become a campus pastor, before they become a campus pastor, you're setting them up to struggle you're setting them up to struggle you're setting them up to struggle later. You've got to give them some later. You've got to give them some later. You've got to give them some responsibility. You've got to do that responsibility. You've got to do that responsibility. You've got to do that thing where you say, "Hey, come and and thing where you say, "Hey, come and and thing where you say, "Hey, come and and watch me do this thing and then we'll do watch me do this thing and then we'll do watch me do this thing and then we'll do it together and then I'll watch you and it together and then I'll watch you and it together and then I'll watch you and then you go and bring somebody else then you go and bring somebody else then you go and bring somebody else along with you." So Locate and develop along with you." So Locate and develop along with you." So Locate and develop your next leaders, your next campus your next leaders, your next campus your next leaders, your next campus leaders particularly. Okay. Number leaders particularly. Okay. Number leaders particularly. Okay. Number three, E engineer repeatable launch three, E engineer repeatable launch three, E engineer repeatable launch economics. Engineer repeatable launch economics. Engineer repeatable launch economics. Engineer repeatable launch economics. So here's the unspoken truth.

economics. So here's the unspoken truth. economics. So here's the unspoken truth. uh if you go out and talk to churches uh if you go out and talk to churches uh if you go out and talk to churches where multicight hasn't worked, the where multicight hasn't worked, the where multicight hasn't worked, the ultimate thing that that shuts the thing ultimate thing that that shuts the thing ultimate thing that that shuts the thing down is finances. Now, typically what down is finances. Now, typically what down is finances. Now, typically what leads up to that is we don't have a leads up to that is we don't have a leads up to that is we don't have a large enough launch core teams. We're large enough launch core teams. We're large enough launch core teams. We're not we don't have enough kind of engaged not we don't have enough kind of engaged not we don't have enough kind of engaged volunteers. But the thing that actually volunteers. But the thing that actually volunteers. But the thing that actually pulls it apart in the end is the pulls it apart in the end is the pulls it apart in the end is the economics don't work anymore. We frankly economics don't work anymore. We frankly economics don't work anymore. We frankly can't afford it. But there's lots of can't afford it. But there's lots of can't afford it. But there's lots of ways that uh that these things fall ways that uh that these things fall ways that uh that these things fall apart financially, emotionally, apart financially, emotionally, apart financially, emotionally, organizationally. it becomes heavier organizationally. it becomes heavier organizationally. it becomes heavier than we experience and the experience than we experience and the experience than we experience and the experience really that experience when it becomes really that experience when it becomes really that experience when it becomes way too heavy is shaping every decision way too heavy is shaping every decision way too heavy is shaping every decision that you make as an organization and I that you make as an organization and I that you make as an organization and I know this listen I was a part of know this listen I was a part of know this listen I was a part of launching 13 campuses directly I've launching 13 campuses directly I've launching 13 campuses directly I've coached a ton of more churches through coached a ton of more churches through coached a ton of more churches through this and every time I was launching I this and every time I was launching I this and every time I was launching I wanted to make sure that we set up the wanted to make sure that we set up the wanted to make sure that we set up the financial side of it so that we were financial side of it so that we were financial side of it so that we were repaying the cost as quickly as possible repaying the cost as quickly as possible repaying the cost as quickly as possible on the other side why because I knew on the other side why because I knew on the other side why because I knew that as fast as we did that that would that as fast as we did that that would that as fast as we did that that would get us to launching in our next get us to launching in our next get us to launching in our next location. If this location cost way too location. If this location cost way too location. If this location cost way too much money, then we would not get to the much money, then we would not get to the much money, then we would not get to the the next location location after that.

the next location location after that. the next location location after that. So, a couple things to think about. You So, a couple things to think about. You So, a couple things to think about. You got to think about the actual location. got to think about the actual location. got to think about the actual location. What do you do? Where do you meet? Don't What do you do? Where do you meet? Don't What do you do? Where do you meet? Don't rent something that's too expensive. rent something that's too expensive. rent something that's too expensive. Don't big build too big. Think about Don't big build too big. Think about Don't big build too big. Think about your overall cost structure. Ideally, your overall cost structure. Ideally, your overall cost structure. Ideally, what you want to shoot for, and we can what you want to shoot for, and we can what you want to shoot for, and we can have more conversation with this if you have more conversation with this if you have more conversation with this if you want to talk about this someday, is that want to talk about this someday, is that want to talk about this someday, is that your cost structure is dealt with. your cost structure is dealt with. your cost structure is dealt with. you're paying your direct attributable you're paying your direct attributable you're paying your direct attributable cost with the direct attributable cost with the direct attributable cost with the direct attributable revenue uh as fast as you possibly can. revenue uh as fast as you possibly can. revenue uh as fast as you possibly can. Self- sustaining as fast as you possibly Self- sustaining as fast as you possibly Self- sustaining as fast as you possibly can. And then expectations, you've got can. And then expectations, you've got can. And then expectations, you've got to work to your people towards to work to your people towards to work to your people towards reasonable expectations and what this reasonable expectations and what this reasonable expectations and what this campus is going to the experience it's campus is going to the experience it's campus is going to the experience it's going to give when you're there. So, going to give when you're there. So, going to give when you're there. So, some simple math to think about, okay, some simple math to think about, okay, some simple math to think about, okay, how do we build a budget? You want to how do we build a budget? You want to how do we build a budget? You want to start with real numbers like things that start with real numbers like things that start with real numbers like things that are actually happening at your church. are actually happening at your church. are actually happening at your church. So, here's what you can do. First, So, here's what you can do. First, So, here's what you can do. First, calculate the giving at your church per calculate the giving at your church per calculate the giving at your church per person. So, what do I mean by that? You person. So, what do I mean by that? You person. So, what do I mean by that? You take your total giving and divide it by take your total giving and divide it by take your total giving and divide it by your average attendance. That's your per your average attendance. That's your per your average attendance. That's your per person giving. Now, what you want to do person giving. Now, what you want to do person giving. Now, what you want to do is estimate your launch size. So, is estimate your launch size. So, is estimate your launch size. So, typically we see a 3:1 ratio for every typically we see a 3:1 ratio for every typically we see a 3:1 ratio for every one volunteers you volunteers you send, one volunteers you volunteers you send, one volunteers you volunteers you send, you'll end up with three people you'll end up with three people you'll end up with three people attending that campus. So uh and that's attending that campus. So uh and that's attending that campus. So uh and that's after you know birth and all that like after you know birth and all that like after you know birth and all that like the longer term it typically ends up in the longer term it typically ends up in the longer term it typically ends up in that range. It's an incredibly sticky that range. It's an incredibly sticky that range. It's an incredibly sticky rule of thumb that we see. So if you rule of thumb that we see. So if you rule of thumb that we see. So if you send 100 volunteers often you'll see send 100 volunteers often you'll see send 100 volunteers often you'll see that campus be 300 people. Now what you that campus be 300 people. Now what you that campus be 300 people. Now what you do is you take that average per cap per do is you take that average per cap per do is you take that average per cap per per capita giving and multiply it by the per capita giving and multiply it by the per capita giving and multiply it by the number of people. That is your projected

number of people. That is your projected number of people. That is your projected revenue at that location. Now there's a revenue at that location. Now there's a revenue at that location. Now there's a lot of conversation around that. There's lot of conversation around that. There's lot of conversation around that. There's obviously it's more it's more complex obviously it's more it's more complex obviously it's more it's more complex than that but that is a simple starting than that but that is a simple starting than that but that is a simple starting point for you to think through uh the point for you to think through uh the point for you to think through uh the revenue side of launching and the revenue side of launching and the revenue side of launching and the question is are have you set up a model question is are have you set up a model question is are have you set up a model where the campus can operate within that where the campus can operate within that where the campus can operate within that reality. If a healthy model is 50% of reality. If a healthy model is 50% of reality. If a healthy model is 50% of your ca your your your campus costs your your ca your your your campus costs your your ca your your your campus costs your or your existing costs today are or your existing costs today are or your existing costs today are staffing. Are you structuring the staffing. Are you structuring the staffing. Are you structuring the staffing in this new location to be 50% staffing in this new location to be 50% staffing in this new location to be 50% of that number that we just calculated of that number that we just calculated of that number that we just calculated and you know what your program costs are and you know what your program costs are and you know what your program costs are and all of those things. Listen, hope is and all of those things. Listen, hope is and all of those things. Listen, hope is not a strategy. You can't just say like not a strategy. You can't just say like not a strategy. You can't just say like oh we just hope this thing will work and oh we just hope this thing will work and oh we just hope this thing will work and pay for itself. No, you need to start pay for itself. No, you need to start pay for itself. No, you need to start with real numbers to engineer a with real numbers to engineer a with real numbers to engineer a repeatable launch economics. All right, repeatable launch economics. All right, repeatable launch economics. All right, next one. A assemble a repeatable next one. A assemble a repeatable next one. A assemble a repeatable playbook. If you're stuck at three playbook. If you're stuck at three playbook. If you're stuck at three locations, one of the things that we see locations, one of the things that we see locations, one of the things that we see that um early on what we say is when we that um early on what we say is when we that um early on what we say is when we launch our first location is we send launch our first location is we send launch our first location is we send some some really entrepreneurial some some really entrepreneurial some some really entrepreneurial leaders, some maybe apostolic leaders to leaders, some maybe apostolic leaders to leaders, some maybe apostolic leaders to go make this thing happen. But then we go make this thing happen. But then we go make this thing happen. But then we get a couple of them going and and at get a couple of them going and and at get a couple of them going and and at the beginning we don't really know what the beginning we don't really know what the beginning we don't really know what we're doing over there. In fact, we're doing over there. In fact, we're doing over there. In fact, actually that first campus I was telling actually that first campus I was telling actually that first campus I was telling you about, we literally would call it you about, we literally would call it you about, we literally would call it that thing over there. We didn't even that thing over there. We didn't even that thing over there. We didn't even know what to call it. and we sent a know what to call it. and we sent a know what to call it. and we sent a great entrepreneurial leader to go make great entrepreneurial leader to go make great entrepreneurial leader to go make it happen. That works for a season, but it happen. That works for a season, but it happen. That works for a season, but that does not scale. You've got to get that does not scale. You've got to get that does not scale. You've got to get to the point where the system only to the point where the system only to the point where the system only worked. You got to get beyond the point

worked. You got to get beyond the point worked. You got to get beyond the point where the system only worked because of where the system only worked because of where the system only worked because of who was in the room. So, you send these who was in the room. So, you send these who was in the room. So, you send these initial leaders early on, but you need initial leaders early on, but you need initial leaders early on, but you need to move beyond that and get it to the to move beyond that and get it to the to move beyond that and get it to the place where uh it's it's the people you place where uh it's it's the people you place where uh it's it's the people you build a system that is that is actually build a system that is that is actually build a system that is that is actually repeatable. And what do I mean by a repeatable. And what do I mean by a repeatable. And what do I mean by a repeatable playbook? This is like things repeatable playbook? This is like things repeatable playbook? This is like things on paper. It does not need to be a on paper. It does not need to be a on paper. It does not need to be a hundred p pages, but it does need to be hundred p pages, but it does need to be hundred p pages, but it does need to be a few pages where you define what is a few pages where you define what is a few pages where you define what is your experience. What are the things your experience. What are the things your experience. What are the things that make your church your church? So, that make your church your church? So, that make your church your church? So, we really got to move from okay, how did we really got to move from okay, how did we really got to move from okay, how did we do that to okay, what are we going to we do that to okay, what are we going to we do that to okay, what are we going to do next time? And really, what you've do next time? And really, what you've do next time? And really, what you've got to do is define your core got to do is define your core got to do is define your core nonnegotiables. nonnegotiables. nonnegotiables. So, this is like what are your So, this is like what are your So, this is like what are your non-negotiables around the weekend adult non-negotiables around the weekend adult non-negotiables around the weekend adult experience? What are the non-negotiables experience? What are the non-negotiables experience? What are the non-negotiables around the guest experience, kids around the guest experience, kids around the guest experience, kids environments, next steps, pathways, key environments, next steps, pathways, key environments, next steps, pathways, key processes, brand consistency, these sort processes, brand consistency, these sort processes, brand consistency, these sort of things, get them on paper. Now, let of things, get them on paper. Now, let of things, get them on paper. Now, let me give you a little hint, friends. me give you a little hint, friends. me give you a little hint, friends. After journey with many multicightes After journey with many multicightes After journey with many multicightes over time, at the beginning when we over time, at the beginning when we over time, at the beginning when we start these things, we think that this start these things, we think that this start these things, we think that this is a very long list, but actually over is a very long list, but actually over is a very long list, but actually over time it becomes a narrower list. We get time it becomes a narrower list. We get time it becomes a narrower list. We get clearer on fewer things long term. So, clearer on fewer things long term. So, clearer on fewer things long term. So, resist the temptation to have a ton of resist the temptation to have a ton of resist the temptation to have a ton of these. Resist the temptation to have a these. Resist the temptation to have a these. Resist the temptation to have a super long list, but you do need to super long list, but you do need to super long list, but you do need to actually have a list. You need to work actually have a list. You need to work actually have a list. You need to work on what is, you know, what our approach on what is, you know, what our approach on what is, you know, what our approach is. We know that there's lots of is. We know that there's lots of is. We know that there's lots of different ways to do church. All we're different ways to do church. All we're different ways to do church. All we're doing here is trying to define that this

doing here is trying to define that this doing here is trying to define that this is the way we do church. It may not even is the way we do church. It may not even is the way we do church. It may not even be the best way, but it is our way, and be the best way, but it is our way, and be the best way, but it is our way, and we we think that there's something we we think that there's something we we think that there's something special about that. All right. And then special about that. All right. And then special about that. All right. And then last reinforce last reinforce last reinforce one church culture. This one I would say one church culture. This one I would say one church culture. This one I would say is the most subtle of all of these and is the most subtle of all of these and is the most subtle of all of these and takes the longest journeying as a takes the longest journeying as a takes the longest journeying as a multi-sight leader to really see. It's multi-sight leader to really see. It's multi-sight leader to really see. It's one of the most important. So we've got one of the most important. So we've got one of the most important. So we've got to really watch our language early on. to really watch our language early on. to really watch our language early on. You need to work to ensure that we're You need to work to ensure that we're You need to work to ensure that we're not talking about that campus over not talking about that campus over not talking about that campus over there. I used that language even there. I used that language even there. I used that language even earlier. or saying things like, "Well, earlier. or saying things like, "Well, earlier. or saying things like, "Well, Central made us do this," or, "Their Central made us do this," or, "Their Central made us do this," or, "Their team is doing it differently." Well, team is doing it differently." Well, team is doing it differently." Well, it's not their team, it's our team. Or, it's not their team, it's our team. Or, it's not their team, it's our team. Or, you know, at the beginning, this these you know, at the beginning, this these you know, at the beginning, this these kind of subtle things that set up the us kind of subtle things that set up the us kind of subtle things that set up the us and them can seem really subtle and even and them can seem really subtle and even and them can seem really subtle and even harmless at the beginning, but it harmless at the beginning, but it harmless at the beginning, but it creates distance and it erodess trust creates distance and it erodess trust creates distance and it erodess trust and destroys alignment long term. We and destroys alignment long term. We and destroys alignment long term. We have to fight for we. One church, have to fight for we. One church, have to fight for we. One church, different locations, sure, different different locations, sure, different different locations, sure, different expressions, one mission, one culture, expressions, one mission, one culture, expressions, one mission, one culture, one team. The moment every campus starts one team. The moment every campus starts one team. The moment every campus starts doing what's right in their own eyes, doing what's right in their own eyes, doing what's right in their own eyes, you don't have a multi-sight church you don't have a multi-sight church you don't have a multi-sight church anymore. You have a loose network of anymore. You have a loose network of anymore. You have a loose network of disconnected ministries. And so you've disconnected ministries. And so you've disconnected ministries. And so you've got to become really good at reinforcing got to become really good at reinforcing got to become really good at reinforcing the one church culture, ensuring that the one church culture, ensuring that the one church culture, ensuring that your people don't use us and them your people don't use us and them your people don't use us and them language that articulate that we are one language that articulate that we are one language that articulate that we are one church in many locations. It's kind of

church in many locations. It's kind of church in many locations. It's kind of like the old swear jar. You know, if you like the old swear jar. You know, if you like the old swear jar. You know, if you were a kid and you said a bad word, you were a kid and you said a bad word, you were a kid and you said a bad word, you had to put some money in there. You had to put some money in there. You had to put some money in there. You know, it's like that. But with this kind know, it's like that. But with this kind know, it's like that. But with this kind of language, we've got to work hard to of language, we've got to work hard to of language, we've got to work hard to have clear language. Well, let's go back have clear language. Well, let's go back have clear language. Well, let's go back to where we started that VHS system. You to where we started that VHS system. You to where we started that VHS system. You know, for a while it worked. We did a know, for a while it worked. We did a know, for a while it worked. We did a few weeks of of kind of testing and but few weeks of of kind of testing and but few weeks of of kind of testing and but then you know what happened on our then you know what happened on our then you know what happened on our opening Sunday. opening Sunday. opening Sunday. They put it into that rewinder that They put it into that rewinder that They put it into that rewinder that rewinder thing I talked about and it rewinder thing I talked about and it rewinder thing I talked about and it rewound all the way back and snapped rewound all the way back and snapped rewound all the way back and snapped that the original tape and then our our that the original tape and then our our that the original tape and then our our teaching pastor had to jump in their car teaching pastor had to jump in their car teaching pastor had to jump in their car and drive out there. The system that we and drive out there. The system that we and drive out there. The system that we designed just didn't work. It broke. And designed just didn't work. It broke. And designed just didn't work. It broke. And what I'll tell you is if we aren't clear what I'll tell you is if we aren't clear what I'll tell you is if we aren't clear on who we are, if we aren't clear on on who we are, if we aren't clear on on who we are, if we aren't clear on what we're trying to do, we won't get what we're trying to do, we won't get what we're trying to do, we won't get beyond three locations. All right. So beyond three locations. All right. So beyond three locations. All right. So for you as we wrap up today's for you as we wrap up today's for you as we wrap up today's conversation, don't just watch this and conversation, don't just watch this and conversation, don't just watch this and move on. What I would encourage you to move on. What I would encourage you to move on. What I would encourage you to do is to set aside 90 minutes with your do is to set aside 90 minutes with your do is to set aside 90 minutes with your leadership team in the next few weeks leadership team in the next few weeks leadership team in the next few weeks and walk through this together. Talk and walk through this together. Talk and walk through this together. Talk about the clear fra framework. Talk about the clear fra framework. Talk about the clear fra framework. Talk about those five things. Uh where are we about those five things. Uh where are we about those five things. Uh where are we clear? Where are we undeveloped? Where clear? Where are we undeveloped? Where clear? Where are we undeveloped? Where are we overextending financially? Uh are we overextending financially? Uh are we overextending financially? Uh where are we relying on heroicism rather where are we relying on heroicism rather where are we relying on heroicism rather than systems? And where do we see our than systems? And where do we see our than systems? And where do we see our culture drifting? You don't need more culture drifting? You don't need more culture drifting? You don't need more vision. That's not what will get you to vision. That's not what will get you to vision. That's not what will get you to three and beyond. You need a church three and beyond. You need a church three and beyond. You need a church that's ready to move again. We would that's ready to move again. We would that's ready to move again. We would love to have you come to exponential love to have you come to exponential love to have you come to exponential 2027, next year's exponential. We're

2027, next year's exponential. We're 2027, next year's exponential. We're going to have a whole track all on going to have a whole track all on going to have a whole track all on multicight. You can see links in the multicight. You can see links in the multicight. You can see links in the show notes about that where we're going show notes about that where we're going show notes about that where we're going to talk about this and many other to talk about this and many other to talk about this and many other things. site. Thanks so much, friends.