Drew Dixon on a Ministry by Gamers to Reach Gamers.

L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast all right well happy unseminary podcast all right well happy unseminary podcast all right well happy Thursday everybody uh welcome to the UN Thursday everybody uh welcome to the UN Thursday everybody uh welcome to the UN Seminary podcast my name is Rich Burch Seminary podcast my name is Rich Burch Seminary podcast my name is Rich Burch thank um the host around these parts so thank um the host around these parts so thank um the host around these parts so excited to have drew Dixon uh on the excited to have drew Dixon uh on the excited to have drew Dixon uh on the phone today as a part of this it's going phone today as a part of this it's going phone today as a part of this it's going to be a great conversation excited to to be a great conversation excited to to be a great conversation excited to have drew he's from an organization have drew he's from an organization have drew he's from an organization called game Church which I'm I think I'm called game Church which I'm I think I'm called game Church which I'm I think I'm going to be introducing you to today so going to be introducing you to today so going to be introducing you to today so Drew welcome to the show thanks yeah Drew welcome to the show thanks yeah Drew welcome to the show thanks yeah glad to be here well game Church you glad to be here well game Church you glad to be here well game Church you know I bumped into this um a friend of know I bumped into this um a friend of know I bumped into this um a friend of mine actually Corin Bower who's been mine actually Corin Bower who's been mine actually Corin Bower who's been both done a course for us at on Seminary both done a course for us at on Seminary both done a course for us at on Seminary and also been on the podcast in the past and also been on the podcast in the past and also been on the podcast in the past she said you've got to reach out to she said you've got to reach out to she said you've got to reach out to these guys at at game Church they're these guys at at game Church they're these guys at at game Church they're doing some interesting stuff so why doing some interesting stuff so why doing some interesting stuff so why don't you tell us what is game Church don't you tell us what is game Church don't you tell us what is game Church yeah so um game church is a is a yeah so um game church is a is a yeah so um game church is a is a nonprofit Ministry based in Ventura nonprofit Ministry based in Ventura nonprofit Ministry based in Ventura California we go to um kind of the the California we go to um kind of the the California we go to um kind of the the there's two big arms of what we do I there's two big arms of what we do I there's two big arms of what we do I guess we go to video game trade shows uh guess we go to video game trade shows uh guess we go to video game trade shows uh and conventions and nerd culture and conventions and nerd culture and conventions and nerd culture conventions so not just video game shows conventions so not just video game shows conventions so not just video game shows but things like the Electronic but things like the Electronic but things like the Electronic Entertainment Expo which is the largest Entertainment Expo which is the largest Entertainment Expo which is the largest trade show in the United States there's trade show in the United States there's trade show in the United States there's a big fan convention called Penny Arcade a big fan convention called Penny Arcade a big fan convention called Penny Arcade that we go to every year um we go to a that we go to every year um we go to a that we go to every year um we go to a lot of the Comic Cons like um oh gosh uh

lot of the Comic Cons like um oh gosh uh lot of the Comic Cons like um oh gosh uh there's a bunch we go to a lot of these there's a bunch we go to a lot of these there's a bunch we go to a lot of these comic conventions and and we we were comic conventions and and we we were comic conventions and and we we were there to um to tell people Jesus loves there to um to tell people Jesus loves there to um to tell people Jesus loves you have some free stuff so we have a you have some free stuff so we have a you have some free stuff so we have a gamer Bible that's got Jesus on it with gamer Bible that's got Jesus on it with gamer Bible that's got Jesus on it with an Xbox 360 controller and uh and so an Xbox 360 controller and uh and so an Xbox 360 controller and uh and so it's got some it it it's the Gospel of it's got some it it it's the Gospel of it's got some it it it's the Gospel of John with some um some gamer commentary John with some um some gamer commentary John with some um some gamer commentary kind of game themed commentary in it and kind of game themed commentary in it and kind of game themed commentary in it and so um really kind of so um really kind of so um really kind of that side of game church is motivated by that side of game church is motivated by that side of game church is motivated by this reality that um people love video this reality that um people love video this reality that um people love video games and we live in a culture where games and we live in a culture where games and we live in a culture where something like um you know uh something like um you know uh something like um you know uh 190 I think recently 190 million 190 I think recently 190 million 190 I think recently 190 million Americans play video games um for like Americans play video games um for like Americans play video games um for like an hour a day right um so that's an an hour a day right um so that's an an hour a day right um so that's an incredible statistic and so uh we we incredible statistic and so uh we we incredible statistic and so uh we we think the church shouldn't ignore that think the church shouldn't ignore that think the church shouldn't ignore that we shouldn't ignore the fact that people we shouldn't ignore the fact that people we shouldn't ignore the fact that people are into those things and and if people are into those things and and if people are into those things and and if people are into those things then we should be are into those things then we should be are into those things then we should be into them too not that we have to that into them too not that we have to that into them too not that we have to that we have to love video games but I think we have to love video games but I think we have to love video games but I think Christians should be people who care Christians should be people who care Christians should be people who care about what their neighbors care about about what their neighbors care about about what their neighbors care about and want to engage the things that their and want to engage the things that their and want to engage the things that their neighbors are engaged in for the sake of neighbors are engaged in for the sake of neighbors are engaged in for the sake of the Gospel um and so we're there to be the Gospel um and so we're there to be the Gospel um and so we're there to be um you know it's not you can't go to um you know it's not you can't go to um you know it's not you can't go to these conventions and be like um so uh these conventions and be like um so uh these conventions and be like um so uh you know how many sins did you commit you know how many sins did you commit you know how many sins did you commit this week or like or things like that at this week or like or things like that at this week or like or things like that at these conventions people are there to these conventions people are there to these conventions people are there to have fun they're there to play games have fun they're there to play games have fun they're there to play games we're there to say hey we want you to we're there to say hey we want you to we're there to say hey we want you to know that games are awesome God God is

know that games are awesome God God is know that games are awesome God God is the the father of all things um he's the the the father of all things um he's the the the father of all things um he's the source of all things but uh and we think source of all things but uh and we think source of all things but uh and we think games are great too so we're just here games are great too so we're just here games are great too so we're just here to tell you that Jesus loves you and to tell you that Jesus loves you and to tell you that Jesus loves you and that there's there there's hope there's that there's there there's hope there's that there's there there's hope there's um there's a a God who is Sovereign over um there's a a God who is Sovereign over um there's a a God who is Sovereign over all things and loves them and um so all things and loves them and um so all things and loves them and um so we're not there to be confrontational we're not there to be confrontational we're not there to be confrontational but we are there to be a presence but we are there to be a presence but we are there to be a presence because there's Christians outside the because there's Christians outside the because there's Christians outside the show with signs that say you know if you show with signs that say you know if you show with signs that say you know if you if you read comic books or if you play if you read comic books or if you play if you read comic books or if you play video games you're going to hell video games you're going to hell video games you're going to hell and so um you know we want to be a voice and so um you know we want to be a voice and so um you know we want to be a voice that says you know that's that's that's that says you know that's that's that's that says you know that's that's that's not what we're here for um we're here to not what we're here for um we're here to not what we're here for um we're here to tell you Jesus loves you you have some tell you Jesus loves you you have some tell you Jesus loves you you have some free stuff and if they read that Bible free stuff and if they read that Bible free stuff and if they read that Bible that gamer Bible they'll find out about that gamer Bible they'll find out about that gamer Bible they'll find out about the the the greatest story in history of the the the greatest story in history of the the the greatest story in history of the universe uh the the story of the the universe uh the the story of the the universe uh the the story of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so one of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so one of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so one of the things I love about what you guys have things I love about what you guys have things I love about what you guys have done I I think you've done an incredible done I I think you've done an incredible done I I think you've done an incredible job I'm not a I'm not a a huge gamer um job I'm not a I'm not a a huge gamer um job I'm not a I'm not a a huge gamer um you know I we have doubled a little bit you know I we have doubled a little bit you know I we have doubled a little bit but the thing I have appreciate about but the thing I have appreciate about but the thing I have appreciate about what you guys do is I think you do an what you guys do is I think you do an what you guys do is I think you do an incredible job trying to contextualize incredible job trying to contextualize incredible job trying to contextualize using gamer language to communicate the using gamer language to communicate the using gamer language to communicate the message uh of Christ which I think is message uh of Christ which I think is message uh of Christ which I think is great you know I think is amazing I great you know I think is amazing I great you know I think is amazing I think we we need to find ways to uh think we we need to find ways to uh think we we need to find ways to uh continue to rearticulate this story in a continue to rearticulate this story in a continue to rearticulate this story in a way that connects with you know today's way that connects with you know today's way that connects with you know today's culture what what are some of the ways culture what what are some of the ways culture what what are some of the ways that you've done that you've tried to that you've done that you've tried to that you've done that you've tried to you talk about the gamer Bible the you talk about the gamer Bible the you talk about the gamer Bible the picture of Jesus with you know uh the picture of Jesus with you know uh the picture of Jesus with you know uh the the PS4 controller or the PS4 you know the PS4 controller or the PS4 you know the PS4 controller or the PS4 you know controller what what are some of those controller what what are some of those controller what what are some of those ways you've done that yeah um so another ways you've done that yeah um so another ways you've done that yeah um so another big thing is and I was and I didn't get big thing is and I was and I didn't get big thing is and I was and I didn't get into this earlier and I should have but into this earlier and I should have but into this earlier and I should have but the main thing that I do with game the main thing that I do with game the main thing that I do with game church is I'm the editorinchief of the

church is I'm the editorinchief of the church is I'm the editorinchief of the website right so on game church.com we website right so on game church.com we website right so on game church.com we have a site that's dedicated to have a site that's dedicated to have a site that's dedicated to exploring the spiritual side of video exploring the spiritual side of video exploring the spiritual side of video games and we're very much committed to games and we're very much committed to games and we're very much committed to doing that in a way that's interesting doing that in a way that's interesting doing that in a way that's interesting that's engaging that's thoughtful um that's engaging that's thoughtful um that's engaging that's thoughtful um that is uh our audience our intended that is uh our audience our intended that is uh our audience our intended audience is not Christians with that audience is not Christians with that audience is not Christians with that website and we talk all the time and website and we talk all the time and website and we talk all the time and even when guys come and want to write even when guys come and want to write even when guys come and want to write for us we say look do not write this for us we say look do not write this for us we say look do not write this like you're writing to the guys in your like you're writing to the guys in your like you're writing to the guys in your Sunday school class right um write this Sunday school class right um write this Sunday school class right um write this like you're writing to anyone you'd have like you're writing to anyone you'd have like you're writing to anyone you'd have a conversation with at like at a a conversation with at like at a a conversation with at like at a convention or or somebody that you might convention or or somebody that you might convention or or somebody that you might play games with or somebody lives down play games with or somebody lives down play games with or somebody lives down the street um just write it to people um the street um just write it to people um the street um just write it to people um and so on that website we do um and so on that website we do um and so on that website we do um interviews with with game developers interviews with with game developers interviews with with game developers where we talk to them about the where we talk to them about the where we talk to them about the religious beliefs 90% of those guys are religious beliefs 90% of those guys are religious beliefs 90% of those guys are either agnostic or atheist I'm not I'm either agnostic or atheist I'm not I'm either agnostic or atheist I'm not I'm not exaggerating that's just that's is not exaggerating that's just that's is not exaggerating that's just that's is what they are most of the video game what they are most of the video game what they are most of the video game developers we talk to are not um are not developers we talk to are not um are not developers we talk to are not um are not religious people right and so um that religious people right and so um that religious people right and so um that gives us an opportunity to engage them gives us an opportunity to engage them gives us an opportunity to engage them and and talk to them about what matters and and talk to them about what matters and and talk to them about what matters to them what they care about and have a to them what they care about and have a to them what they care about and have a conversation about spirituality that I conversation about spirituality that I conversation about spirituality that I think is pretty rare on the internet we think is pretty rare on the internet we think is pretty rare on the internet we do yeah we do a podcast as well where we do yeah we do a podcast as well where we do yeah we do a podcast as well where we do something similar we talk to to game do something similar we talk to to game do something similar we talk to to game developers we had Ken LaVine on recently developers we had Ken LaVine on recently developers we had Ken LaVine on recently who's the creative director of Bioshock who's the creative director of Bioshock who's the creative director of Bioshock and BioShock Infinite and BioShock Infinite and BioShock Infinite um and and uh talk to him about um um and and uh talk to him about um um and and uh talk to him about um religion and Bioshock uh so yeah so all religion and Bioshock uh so yeah so all religion and Bioshock uh so yeah so all those things hopefully we're modeling I

those things hopefully we're modeling I those things hopefully we're modeling I mean hopefully we're reaching out mean hopefully we're reaching out mean hopefully we're reaching out through that website to people who are through that website to people who are through that website to people who are not Christians and challenging them to not Christians and challenging them to not Christians and challenging them to think about spirituality about belief think about spirituality about belief think about spirituality about belief about eternity about all those things about eternity about all those things about eternity about all those things that are important are Central to the that are important are Central to the that are important are Central to the gospel but also hopefully we're modeling gospel but also hopefully we're modeling gospel but also hopefully we're modeling for the church um what it means to for the church um what it means to for the church um what it means to engage culture you know what it mean engage culture you know what it mean engage culture you know what it mean like we're we're trying to be a like we're we're trying to be a like we're we're trying to be a meaningful part of the world of video meaningful part of the world of video meaningful part of the world of video games so when you come to our site games so when you come to our site games so when you come to our site hopefully you see people who care about hopefully you see people who care about hopefully you see people who care about video games who think who think they're video games who think who think they're video games who think who think they're amazing um who think they have a lot to amazing um who think they have a lot to amazing um who think they have a lot to say about the world like um because say about the world like um because say about the world like um because people are made in the image of God I people are made in the image of God I people are made in the image of God I think you see even from gu even from think you see even from gu even from think you see even from gu even from like video games that are made by people like video games that are made by people like video games that are made by people who are not Believers you see all kinds who are not Believers you see all kinds who are not Believers you see all kinds of things that are true and good and of things that are true and good and of things that are true and good and interesting in them and of course interesting in them and of course interesting in them and of course there's things that are not so good in there's things that are not so good in there's things that are not so good in the video game industry and I think we the video game industry and I think we the video game industry and I think we should be we and on the website we try should be we and on the website we try should be we and on the website we try to be honest about that there's a lot of to be honest about that there's a lot of to be honest about that there's a lot of misogyny uh in video games there's a lot misogyny uh in video games there's a lot misogyny uh in video games there's a lot of um I don't think all violence in of um I don't think all violence in of um I don't think all violence in video games is bad but there's there's video games is bad but there's there's video games is bad but there's there's an overemphasis for sure on violence an overemphasis for sure on violence an overemphasis for sure on violence there's there's a lack of Redemptive there's there's a lack of Redemptive there's there's a lack of Redemptive violence in video games um there's a lot violence in video games um there's a lot violence in video games um there's a lot of cultural insensitivity in video games of cultural insensitivity in video games of cultural insensitivity in video games those are problems that we try to be those are problems that we try to be those are problems that we try to be honest about but we also want to honest about but we also want to honest about but we also want to acknowledge the times when video games acknowledge the times when video games acknowledge the times when video games say things that are true um and there's say things that are true um and there's say things that are true um and there's a lot of I mean I could tell I could a lot of I mean I could tell I could a lot of I mean I could tell I could share with you a bunch of amazing games share with you a bunch of amazing games share with you a bunch of amazing games that are saying truthful things that if that are saying truthful things that if that are saying truthful things that if we'll have the eyes to see and years to we'll have the eyes to see and years to we'll have the eyes to see and years to hear um can actually we can actually hear um can actually we can actually hear um can actually we can actually engage those things in a way that engage those things in a way that engage those things in a way that Shepherds our hearts towards Christ Shepherds our hearts towards Christ Shepherds our hearts towards Christ rather than away from them I think yeah rather than away from them I think yeah rather than away from them I think yeah this is I think this is a great

this is I think this is a great this is I think this is a great conversation to be having one of the conversation to be having one of the conversation to be having one of the things that I think as we you know this things that I think as we you know this things that I think as we you know this gamer influence is massive in our gamer influence is massive in our gamer influence is massive in our culture right it is one of those you culture right it is one of those you culture right it is one of those you know you bump into people all the time know you bump into people all the time know you bump into people all the time and it seems to be one of those cultural and it seems to be one of those cultural and it seems to be one of those cultural I don't know why this is and this this I don't know why this is and this this I don't know why this is and this this could be uh I I value your opinion on could be uh I I value your opinion on could be uh I I value your opinion on this gaming seems to be one of those this gaming seems to be one of those this gaming seems to be one of those things um that there's a there is a things um that there's a there is a things um that there's a there is a strong subculture built around it um but strong subculture built around it um but strong subculture built around it um but there is within the church world for there is within the church world for there is within the church world for whatever reason there's like a almost whatever reason there's like a almost whatever reason there's like a almost like a weird stigma around it um and and like a weird stigma around it um and and like a weird stigma around it um and and why why do you why do you suppose that why why do you why do you suppose that why why do you why do you suppose that is or am I just hanging out with the is or am I just hanging out with the is or am I just hanging out with the wrong people who just think you know you wrong people who just think you know you wrong people who just think you know you know who are maybe perpetuating a false know who are maybe perpetuating a false know who are maybe perpetuating a false yeah I I think it's changing but I think yeah I I think it's changing but I think yeah I I think it's changing but I think you're absolutely right I think the you're absolutely right I think the you're absolutely right I think the church is Shifting away from being kind church is Shifting away from being kind church is Shifting away from being kind of fearful right of games but we're of fearful right of games but we're of fearful right of games but we're still still still we still default to that position of we still default to that position of we still default to that position of being kind of fearful questioning them being kind of fearful questioning them being kind of fearful questioning them like oh well those things are like um like oh well those things are like um like oh well those things are like um they're really violent don't they kind they're really violent don't they kind they're really violent don't they kind of like I mean every you know every time of like I mean every you know every time of like I mean every you know every time there's some tragedy in the news Fox there's some tragedy in the news Fox there's some tragedy in the news Fox News runs a piece about how it's video News runs a piece about how it's video News runs a piece about how it's video games so you know um and I think that's games so you know um and I think that's games so you know um and I think that's our default thing to do is to be like oh our default thing to do is to be like oh our default thing to do is to be like oh well let's question it let's this is well let's question it let's this is well let's question it let's this is probably dangerous it's probably not probably dangerous it's probably not probably dangerous it's probably not good um and we should be qu we should good um and we should be qu we should good um and we should be qu we should question everything that we put into our question everything that we put into our question everything that we put into our minds but um I think uh that comes from minds but um I think uh that comes from minds but um I think uh that comes from just this uh kind you know just this uh kind you know just this uh kind you know fundamentalism I think is still fundamentalism I think is still fundamentalism I think is still something that that Christianity is is something that that Christianity is is something that that Christianity is is moving away from particularly in the moving away from particularly in the moving away from particularly in the United States um but sorry um but uh

United States um but sorry um but uh United States um but sorry um but uh yeah so um you know I think uh yeah I yeah so um you know I think uh yeah I yeah so um you know I think uh yeah I think there certainly is that stigma and think there certainly is that stigma and think there certainly is that stigma and I think what needs to happen is I think what needs to happen is I think what needs to happen is Christians need to think more carefully Christians need to think more carefully Christians need to think more carefully more thoughtfully about what does it more thoughtfully about what does it more thoughtfully about what does it mean to be Salt and Light in the world mean to be Salt and Light in the world mean to be Salt and Light in the world like what does it mean to be an like what does it mean to be an like what does it mean to be an influence for the sake of Christ in the influence for the sake of Christ in the influence for the sake of Christ in the world um I think Christ was someone who world um I think Christ was someone who world um I think Christ was someone who very much engaged the world engaged very much engaged the world engaged very much engaged the world engaged people engaged culture was interested in people engaged culture was interested in people engaged culture was interested in the lives of other people and so I think the lives of other people and so I think the lives of other people and so I think that's that's what drives me and I think that's that's what drives me and I think that's that's what drives me and I think that's what drives game churches we say that's what drives game churches we say that's what drives game churches we say we want to be interested in the lives of we want to be interested in the lives of we want to be interested in the lives of people people care about video games so people people care about video games so people people care about video games so we should too right you know absolutely we should too right you know absolutely we should too right you know absolutely um and people are invested in them so we um and people are invested in them so we um and people are invested in them so we should we should invest in them on some should we should invest in them on some should we should invest in them on some level as well um what would you say level as well um what would you say level as well um what would you say would be some first steps that a church would be some first steps that a church would be some first steps that a church could say let's say there's a church could say let's say there's a church could say let's say there's a church leader listening in today he's like yeah leader listening in today he's like yeah leader listening in today he's like yeah you know what this is this is an area we you know what this is this is an area we you know what this is this is an area we need to step up our game a little bit uh need to step up our game a little bit uh need to step up our game a little bit uh pardon the pun um how how could they How pardon the pun um how how could they How pardon the pun um how how could they How could a church you know a Ministry an could a church you know a Ministry an could a church you know a Ministry an individual you know Church leader kind individual you know Church leader kind individual you know Church leader kind of Tak steps to try to engage kind of of Tak steps to try to engage kind of of Tak steps to try to engage kind of gamer culture around them yeah um I gamer culture around them yeah um I gamer culture around them yeah um I think probably the like the first thing think probably the like the first thing think probably the like the first thing that needs to happen in in some Churches that needs to happen in in some Churches that needs to happen in in some Churches anyway is they need to stop like stop anyway is they need to stop like stop anyway is they need to stop like stop saying stupid things about saying stupid things about saying stupid things about it ex like I think it ex like I think it ex like I think yeah probably it starts in the Pulpit yeah probably it starts in the Pulpit yeah probably it starts in the Pulpit like be more thoughtful like it's easy like be more thoughtful like it's easy like be more thoughtful like it's easy to just say video games are stupid and to just say video games are stupid and to just say video games are stupid and probably sinful I mean usually pastors probably sinful I mean usually pastors probably sinful I mean usually pastors don't come out and say they're sinful don't come out and say they're sinful don't come out and say they're sinful but they they say things like um they're

but they they say things like um they're but they they say things like um they're not they're not sinful but they're a big not they're not sinful but they're a big not they're not sinful but they're a big waste of time and you you could you waste of time and you you could you waste of time and you you could you should probably be outside playing with should probably be outside playing with should probably be outside playing with your kids instead or whatever um but uh your kids instead or whatever um but uh your kids instead or whatever um but uh and so by saying those things we're kind and so by saying those things we're kind and so by saying those things we're kind of condemning I think a huge portion of of condemning I think a huge portion of of condemning I think a huge portion of the population that isn't actually doing the population that isn't actually doing the population that isn't actually doing anything wrong right like sure there are anything wrong right like sure there are anything wrong right like sure there are guys that are in their 30s and 40s guys that are in their 30s and 40s guys that are in their 30s and 40s living in their parents basement that living in their parents basement that living in their parents basement that play way too much video games that's a play way too much video games that's a play way too much video games that's a problem sure but by saying those things problem sure but by saying those things problem sure but by saying those things we're condemning people that really we we're condemning people that really we we're condemning people that really we should be coming alongside and and should be coming alongside and and should be coming alongside and and taking an interest in so I'd say to taking an interest in so I'd say to taking an interest in so I'd say to pastors and church leaders like take an pastors and church leaders like take an pastors and church leaders like take an interest in the things that your people interest in the things that your people interest in the things that your people care about like your people Pastor if I care about like your people Pastor if I care about like your people Pastor if I was talking to Pastor say Pastor your was talking to Pastor say Pastor your was talking to Pastor say Pastor your people are playing video games they care people are playing video games they care people are playing video games they care about video games so um take interest in about video games so um take interest in about video games so um take interest in them ask questions talk to people try to them ask questions talk to people try to them ask questions talk to people try to understand why people care about video understand why people care about video understand why people care about video games before you say anything about them games before you say anything about them games before you say anything about them from the pulpit but even from the pulpit from the pulpit but even from the pulpit from the pulpit but even from the pulpit too I think I would to challenge pastors too I think I would to challenge pastors too I think I would to challenge pastors to like um you know talk about uh about to like um you know talk about uh about to like um you know talk about uh about those things challenge people to um to those things challenge people to um to those things challenge people to um to play games with their kids challenge play games with their kids challenge play games with their kids challenge people to play games with their neighbor people to play games with their neighbor people to play games with their neighbor like maybe you have no clue how to play like maybe you have no clue how to play like maybe you have no clue how to play video games well ask your buddy who you video games well ask your buddy who you video games well ask your buddy who you know is into them ask him to show you know is into them ask him to show you know is into them ask him to show you that's a amazing opportunity to like that's a amazing opportunity to like that's a amazing opportunity to like connect with someone and and hopefully connect with someone and and hopefully connect with someone and and hopefully build a relationship that's going to be build a relationship that's going to be build a relationship that's going to be meaningful and going to give you an meaningful and going to give you an meaningful and going to give you an opportunity to point others to Christ opportunity to point others to Christ opportunity to point others to Christ like um and come on a mission trip with like um and come on a mission trip with like um and come on a mission trip with us yeah absolutely we do we do gamer

us yeah absolutely we do we do gamer us yeah absolutely we do we do gamer mission trips where we have people come mission trips where we have people come mission trips where we have people come to shows with us we train them about how to shows with us we train them about how to shows with us we train them about how to you know engage with people in a in a to you know engage with people in a in a to you know engage with people in a in a normal way you know um you know apart normal way you know um you know apart normal way you know um you know apart from like getting on Xbox Live or get from like getting on Xbox Live or get from like getting on Xbox Live or get online and and making your Gamertag like online and and making your Gamertag like online and and making your Gamertag like hardcore Jesus Lover or whatever you hardcore Jesus Lover or whatever you hardcore Jesus Lover or whatever you know we try to help people understand know we try to help people understand know we try to help people understand like how to engage people in a natural like how to engage people in a natural like how to engage people in a natural way that's not forced that's um I think way that's not forced that's um I think way that's not forced that's um I think think more healthy so if we could just think more healthy so if we could just think more healthy so if we could just uh I think the big thing is to to preach uh I think the big thing is to to preach uh I think the big thing is to to preach and teach in your church in such a way and teach in your church in such a way and teach in your church in such a way that's not fearful of culture but rather that's not fearful of culture but rather that's not fearful of culture but rather engages it and really wants to not all engages it and really wants to not all engages it and really wants to not all of it's great sure not all of it's of it's great sure not all of it's of it's great sure not all of it's awesome but think about the things that awesome but think about the things that awesome but think about the things that are good and are not so that you can are good and are not so that you can are good and are not so that you can parse the things out and and and and parse the things out and and and and parse the things out and and and and build relationships with people for the build relationships with people for the build relationships with people for the sake of Christ very cool what's your sake of Christ very cool what's your sake of Christ very cool what's your favorite game right now and something favorite game right now and something favorite game right now and something you're looking forward to there's got to you're looking forward to there's got to you're looking forward to there's got to be something oh man I know that's hard be something oh man I know that's hard be something oh man I know that's hard that's hard yeah that's hard yeah that's hard yeah uh I've been playing a lot of Destiny uh I've been playing a lot of Destiny uh I've been playing a lot of Destiny lately but I don't necessarily really lately but I don't necessarily really lately but I don't necessarily really love it it's a good but not great game love it it's a good but not great game love it it's a good but not great game in my opinion um but uh I have been in my opinion um but uh I have been in my opinion um but uh I have been playing a really uh spooky and playing a really uh spooky and playing a really uh spooky and incredible game called never- ending incredible game called never- ending incredible game called never- ending nightmares that's um it's actually made nightmares that's um it's actually made nightmares that's um it's actually made by a guy who uh is a Believer uh and by a guy who uh is a Believer uh and by a guy who uh is a Believer uh and it's um it's it's about his experience it's um it's it's about his experience it's um it's it's about his experience with obsessive compulsive disorder and with obsessive compulsive disorder and with obsessive compulsive disorder and depression interesting so he tried to

depression interesting so he tried to depression interesting so he tried to illustrate through this horror game like illustrate through this horror game like illustrate through this horror game like what his experience is like and help what his experience is like and help what his experience is like and help people come kind of see what that was people come kind of see what that was people come kind of see what that was like and Inter um yeah it's it's pretty like and Inter um yeah it's it's pretty like and Inter um yeah it's it's pretty it's a pretty profound game so um that's it's a pretty profound game so um that's it's a pretty profound game so um that's one that uh that I've enjoyed lately um one that uh that I've enjoyed lately um one that uh that I've enjoyed lately um a game that I'm really excited about a game that I'm really excited about a game that I'm really excited about would be um there's a game called uh would be um there's a game called uh would be um there's a game called uh this is my war that uh is coming out this is my war that uh is coming out this is my war that uh is coming out soon and it's a about it's Loosely based soon and it's a about it's Loosely based soon and it's a about it's Loosely based on the siege of Bosnia oh interesting um on the siege of Bosnia oh interesting um on the siege of Bosnia oh interesting um and so it puts players in control of and so it puts players in control of and so it puts players in control of civilians trying to survive the war oh civilians trying to survive the war oh civilians trying to survive the war oh rather than yeah rather than soldiers rather than yeah rather than soldiers rather than yeah rather than soldiers trying to conquer so it's sort of like trying to conquer so it's sort of like trying to conquer so it's sort of like it's a reverse war it's a reverse war it's a reverse war game you're managing resources and game you're managing resources and game you're managing resources and you're making difficult moral decisions you're making difficult moral decisions you're making difficult moral decisions about survival um but yeah it look it about survival um but yeah it look it about survival um but yeah it look it looks looks pretty cool interesting well looks looks pretty cool interesting well looks looks pretty cool interesting well anything else you'd love to share with anything else you'd love to share with anything else you'd love to share with our listeners before we uh jump into the our listeners before we uh jump into the our listeners before we uh jump into the Lightning Lightning Lightning Run um not not really just would Run um not not really just would Run um not not really just would encourage people to check out gam encourage people to check out gam encourage people to check out gam church.com and um if you want to follow church.com and um if you want to follow church.com and um if you want to follow there we have a community of people who there we have a community of people who there we have a community of people who are into games who hang out on Facebook are into games who hang out on Facebook are into games who hang out on Facebook it's called game Church City so it's called game Church City so it's called game Church City so encourage people just search game Church encourage people just search game Church encourage people just search game Church City on Facebook you'll find us um and City on Facebook you'll find us um and City on Facebook you'll find us um and yeah consider coming on a mission trip yeah consider coming on a mission trip yeah consider coming on a mission trip with us we want to help Believers want with us we want to help Believers want with us we want to help Believers want to help Christians think about um how to to help Christians think about um how to to help Christians think about um how to come alongside Us in the in the the come alongside Us in the in the the come alongside Us in the in the the mission of engaging Gamers this is the

mission of engaging Gamers this is the mission of engaging Gamers this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well let's jump into taught in seminary well let's jump into taught in seminary well let's jump into the lightning round that's the part of the lightning round that's the part of the lightning round that's the part of the show where uh we ask similar the show where uh we ask similar the show where uh we ask similar questions of people who have been on the questions of people who have been on the questions of people who have been on the show in the past today we're super show in the past today we're super show in the past today we're super excited to have drew Dixon uh on the the excited to have drew Dixon uh on the the excited to have drew Dixon uh on the the line with us today from game church I line with us today from game church I line with us today from game church I really would encourage you to make sure really would encourage you to make sure really would encourage you to make sure you drop by game church.com and check you drop by game church.com and check you drop by game church.com and check out their site I find it fascinating I out their site I find it fascinating I out their site I find it fascinating I think it's uh they're doing an think it's uh they're doing an think it's uh they're doing an incredible job trying to engage this incredible job trying to engage this incredible job trying to engage this culture in a in a real positive I'd say culture in a in a real positive I'd say culture in a in a real positive I'd say a prame kind of environment like it's a prame kind of environment like it's a prame kind of environment like it's not we're trying to condemn you all you not we're trying to condemn you all you not we're trying to condemn you all you bad people who play video games and I bad people who play video games and I bad people who play video games and I think even just purely for church think even just purely for church think even just purely for church leaders that are listening today that leaders that are listening today that leaders that are listening today that would say hey there's a segment of your would say hey there's a segment of your would say hey there's a segment of your church probably a large segment of your church probably a large segment of your church probably a large segment of your church that every week spend time church that every week spend time church that every week spend time playing games this is a great place to playing games this is a great place to playing games this is a great place to start to kind of understand the culture start to kind of understand the culture start to kind of understand the culture uh a little bit more so um you know Dre uh a little bit more so um you know Dre uh a little bit more so um you know Dre what is an online resource you're using what is an online resource you're using what is an online resource you're using these days that you're finding these days that you're finding these days that you're finding particularly helpful for your uh for particularly helpful for your uh for particularly helpful for your uh for your your your ministry uh I use Google Drive ministry uh I use Google Drive ministry uh I use Google Drive obsessively um that's great that's just obsessively um that's great that's just obsessively um that's great that's just like for me I'm an editor so we have all like for me I'm an editor so we have all like for me I'm an editor so we have all of our writers send in their articles in of our writers send in their articles in of our writers send in their articles in Google Drive so it's really easy to to Google Drive so it's really easy to to Google Drive so it's really easy to to comment on them and and give those comment on them and and give those comment on them and and give those writers feedback so they can make writers feedback so they can make writers feedback so they can make changes to their articles so um that's changes to their articles so um that's changes to their articles so um that's something I use obsessively um yeah you something I use obsessively um yeah you something I use obsessively um yeah you know we record podcasts too so that's know we record podcasts too so that's know we record podcasts too so that's that's one of the amazing things is that's one of the amazing things is that's one of the amazing things is Skype and so easy to record from like Skype and so easy to record from like Skype and so easy to record from like you're doing right now exactly you know you're doing right now exactly you know you're doing right now exactly you know and so you can um those are things that and so you can um those are things that and so you can um those are things that you bam easily can create resources for

you bam easily can create resources for you bam easily can create resources for your church that are are fantastic so your church that are are fantastic so your church that are are fantastic so very cool yeah Google you got to get on very cool yeah Google you got to get on very cool yeah Google you got to get on Google apps Google drive if you don't Google apps Google drive if you don't Google apps Google drive if you don't know about that you are missing out as a know about that you are missing out as a know about that you are missing out as a church leader for sure U what's a book church leader for sure U what's a book church leader for sure U what's a book you've read in the last you know six you've read in the last you know six you've read in the last you know six months to a year that's had an impact on months to a year that's had an impact on months to a year that's had an impact on your thinking yeah I just read the your thinking yeah I just read the your thinking yeah I just read the checklist Manifesto by Atul I'm gonna checklist Manifesto by Atul I'm gonna checklist Manifesto by Atul I'm gonna picture this Atul gandi I think picture this Atul gandi I think picture this Atul gandi I think something like that fantastic book yeah something like that fantastic book yeah something like that fantastic book yeah yeah I found it fascinating so he's a a yeah I found it fascinating so he's a a yeah I found it fascinating so he's a a surgeon and uh he just talks about tells surgeon and uh he just talks about tells surgeon and uh he just talks about tells these amazing stories about uh these amazing stories about uh these amazing stories about uh miraculous people this one of them was miraculous people this one of them was miraculous people this one of them was about this girl who was fell into a about this girl who was fell into a about this girl who was fell into a Frozen was underwater for 30 minutes Frozen was underwater for 30 minutes Frozen was underwater for 30 minutes before she was rescued and they were before she was rescued and they were before she was rescued and they were able to to save her and just and and able to to save her and just and and able to to save her and just and and what saved her was a checklist something what saved her was a checklist something what saved her was a checklist something so simple that we don't think about but so simple that we don't think about but so simple that we don't think about but the book's about getting things right the book's about getting things right the book's about getting things right the first time and and and the simple the first time and and and the simple the first time and and and the simple process of having a checklist that you process of having a checklist that you process of having a checklist that you go through to make sure you do go through to make sure you do go through to make sure you do everything excellently and the way uh everything excellently and the way uh everything excellently and the way uh that it's supposed to be done U makes a that it's supposed to be done U makes a that it's supposed to be done U makes a huge difference so it's it's not like a huge difference so it's it's not like a huge difference so it's it's not like a I don't know if he's a Christian or not I don't know if he's a Christian or not I don't know if he's a Christian or not I have no idea it's not like a super I have no idea it's not like a super I have no idea it's not like a super Jesy book but I found it really really Jesy book but I found it really really Jesy book but I found it really really insightful really helpful it is that's a insightful really helpful it is that's a insightful really helpful it is that's a fantastic book I know one of the things fantastic book I know one of the things fantastic book I know one of the things that for me that when I read that that that for me that when I read that that that for me that when I read that that kind of messed with my head is you know kind of messed with my head is you know kind of messed with my head is you know he points out the fact that people at he points out the fact that people at he points out the fact that people at the very top of you know really some of the very top of you know really some of the very top of you know really some of the smartest people around astronauts in the smartest people around astronauts in the smartest people around astronauts in his case surgeons you know use airline his case surgeons you know use airline his case surgeons you know use airline pilots um you know where there's like

pilots um you know where there's like pilots um you know where there's like high-risk you know a lot of um moving high-risk you know a lot of um moving high-risk you know a lot of um moving Parts in those environments they use Parts in those environments they use Parts in those environments they use check check check regularly as a part of the way they get regularly as a part of the way they get regularly as a part of the way they get work done and um you know we're and so work done and um you know we're and so work done and um you know we're and so you know he's kind of it's a Manifesto you know he's kind of it's a Manifesto you know he's kind of it's a Manifesto he's trying to say like hey you should he's trying to say like hey you should he's trying to say like hey you should be doing it in your world as well um be doing it in your world as well um be doing it in your world as well um it's it's fantastic what's another it's it's fantastic what's another it's it's fantastic what's another Ministry out there that's inspiring you Ministry out there that's inspiring you Ministry out there that's inspiring you these days that you're like oh you know these days that you're like oh you know these days that you're like oh you know that's an you know I want to learn from that's an you know I want to learn from that's an you know I want to learn from them or just think they're doing great them or just think they're doing great them or just think they're doing great stuff yeah um I want to I plug a stuff yeah um I want to I plug a stuff yeah um I want to I plug a Ministry called Christ and pop culture Ministry called Christ and pop culture Ministry called Christ and pop culture uh you can go find at Christ and poop uh you can go find at Christ and poop uh you can go find at Christ and poop culture.com um so it's it's actually the culture.com um so it's it's actually the culture.com um so it's it's actually the site that kind of I like I wouldn't be site that kind of I like I wouldn't be site that kind of I like I wouldn't be at game Church where it not for Christ at game Church where it not for Christ at game Church where it not for Christ and pop culture so I started writing for and pop culture so I started writing for and pop culture so I started writing for cist pop culture and then I started cist pop culture and then I started cist pop culture and then I started editing for that site some and I don't editing for that site some and I don't editing for that site some and I don't work for work with them anymore but but work for work with them anymore but but work for work with them anymore but but I started doing a column on video games I started doing a column on video games I started doing a column on video games for that site where it was it was a for that site where it was it was a for that site where it was it was a column called when games matter and so column called when games matter and so column called when games matter and so each week I would share an experience I each week I would share an experience I each week I would share an experience I had playing a game that was that made me had playing a game that was that made me had playing a game that was that made me think as a Christian that was meaningful think as a Christian that was meaningful think as a Christian that was meaningful that you know was a way I could engage that you know was a way I could engage that you know was a way I could engage video games kind of as a as a follower video games kind of as a as a follower video games kind of as a as a follower of Jesus um so doing that was what of Jesus um so doing that was what of Jesus um so doing that was what connected me to Mikey Bridges who's the connected me to Mikey Bridges who's the connected me to Mikey Bridges who's the founder of game church and he was like I founder of game church and he was like I founder of game church and he was like I like your writing you should think about like your writing you should think about like your writing you should think about doing some of this for us and um yeah so doing some of this for us and um yeah so doing some of this for us and um yeah so it's it's a site that takes the whole of it's it's a site that takes the whole of it's it's a site that takes the whole of Pop Culture not just gaming but movies Pop Culture not just gaming but movies Pop Culture not just gaming but movies um you know you can find articles about um you know you can find articles about um you know you can find articles about politics but they're very thoughtful you

politics but they're very thoughtful you politics but they're very thoughtful you can find articles about um uh you know can find articles about um uh you know can find articles about um uh you know uh TV and and all all kinds of all uh TV and and all all kinds of all uh TV and and all all kinds of all facets of pop culture and their goal is facets of pop culture and their goal is facets of pop culture and their goal is to engage them and help Christians think to engage them and help Christians think to engage them and help Christians think rightly and truthfully um but but also rightly and truthfully um but but also rightly and truthfully um but but also very thoughtfully about pop culture so very thoughtfully about pop culture so very thoughtfully about pop culture so that's a great site if you're if you're that's a great site if you're if you're that's a great site if you're if you're concerned with um cultural engagement I concerned with um cultural engagement I concerned with um cultural engagement I think it's a fantastic resource cool think it's a fantastic resource cool think it's a fantastic resource cool great well just two last questions if great well just two last questions if great well just two last questions if you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today uh who would you want to get alive today uh who would you want to get alive today uh who would you want to get that time with and why yeah um that's that time with and why yeah um that's that time with and why yeah um that's tough but I just sort of defaulted I tough but I just sort of defaulted I tough but I just sort of defaulted I said I think well you asked me this said I think well you asked me this said I think well you asked me this question before and I defaulted to Tim question before and I defaulted to Tim question before and I defaulted to Tim Keller is probably who I would spend Keller is probably who I would spend Keller is probably who I would spend time with um just because I think he's time with um just because I think he's time with um just because I think he's someone who thinks very like I don't someone who thinks very like I don't someone who thinks very like I don't know that there's a more thoughtful know that there's a more thoughtful know that there's a more thoughtful preacher of the Gospel right I mean preacher of the Gospel right I mean preacher of the Gospel right I mean obviously he's like deeply biblical in obviously he's like deeply biblical in obviously he's like deeply biblical in his teaching but just somebody who his teaching but just somebody who his teaching but just somebody who really makes an effort to understand really makes an effort to understand really makes an effort to understand culture and preach in a way that's culture and preach in a way that's culture and preach in a way that's thought-provoking um and and really thought-provoking um and and really thought-provoking um and and really compelling so yeah it'd be cool to sit compelling so yeah it'd be cool to sit compelling so yeah it'd be cool to sit down with Tim killer and that's great down with Tim killer and that's great down with Tim killer and that's great cool great well when you're not writing cool great well when you're not writing cool great well when you're not writing uh at game church or you know playing uh at game church or you know playing uh at game church or you know playing video games what do you do uh for fun video games what do you do uh for fun video games what do you do uh for fun just to kind of blow steam off a little just to kind of blow steam off a little just to kind of blow steam off a little bit you know have fun yeah these days I bit you know have fun yeah these days I bit you know have fun yeah these days I play with my kids more than anything play with my kids more than anything play with my kids more than anything because I have a three-year-old and a a because I have a three-year-old and a a because I have a three-year-old and a a seven-month-old nice but uh so it takes seven-month-old nice but uh so it takes seven-month-old nice but uh so it takes up a lot of my time but I love I'm a

up a lot of my time but I love I'm a up a lot of my time but I love I'm a huge soccer fan um so I like to I cheer huge soccer fan um so I like to I cheer huge soccer fan um so I like to I cheer for Arsenal watch the English Premier for Arsenal watch the English Premier for Arsenal watch the English Premier League cool um and I like I play adult League cool um and I like I play adult League cool um and I like I play adult soccer once a week adult league yeah so soccer once a week adult league yeah so soccer once a week adult league yeah so fun well I really appreciate you being fun well I really appreciate you being fun well I really appreciate you being on the show today Drew thank you so much on the show today Drew thank you so much on the show today Drew thank you so much for taking time out I know you've got for taking time out I know you've got for taking time out I know you've got lots of things going on in life so I I lots of things going on in life so I I lots of things going on in life so I I really appreciate you uh if people want really appreciate you uh if people want really appreciate you uh if people want to get in touch with you or with game to get in touch with you or with game to get in touch with you or with game Church they can do that at game Church they can do that at game Church they can do that at game church.com is there any other place that church.com is there any other place that church.com is there any other place that they could kind of track along sure yeah they could kind of track along sure yeah they could kind of track along sure yeah you can follow us on Twitter at game you can follow us on Twitter at game you can follow us on Twitter at game Church um like I said before game Church Church um like I said before game Church Church um like I said before game Church city is our community on Facebook if you city is our community on Facebook if you city is our community on Facebook if you want to just hang out talk games um also want to just hang out talk games um also want to just hang out talk games um also you can follow me on Twitter Drew Dixon you can follow me on Twitter Drew Dixon you can follow me on Twitter Drew Dixon Dio n Drew Dixon 82 because it's super Dio n Drew Dixon 82 because it's super Dio n Drew Dixon 82 because it's super cool to put the year you were born at cool to put the year you were born at cool to put the year you were born at the end of your Twitter handle um nice the end of your Twitter handle um nice the end of your Twitter handle um nice I've regretted that ever since but yeah I've regretted that ever since but yeah I've regretted that ever since but yeah uh and if you have any questions feel uh and if you have any questions feel uh and if you have any questions feel free to contact me at uh Drew gamechurch free to contact me at uh Drew gamechurch free to contact me at uh Drew gamechurch is my game church.com Drew atgame is my game church.com Drew atgame is my game church.com Drew atgame church.com is my email so nice yeah well church.com is my email so nice yeah well church.com is my email so nice yeah well thanks so much I really appreciate you thanks so much I really appreciate you thanks so much I really appreciate you being on the show today yeah yeah being on the show today yeah yeah being on the show today yeah yeah enjoyed it thanks so much for having me enjoyed it thanks so much for having me enjoyed it thanks so much for having me thank you for tuning tuning in to this thank you for tuning tuning in to this thank you for tuning tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy week's unseminary podcast don't be shy week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out we'd love to connect check out we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at UNS unseminary inbox you can sign up at UNS unseminary inbox you can sign up at UNS seminary. comom and we'll send you seminary. comom and we'll send you seminary. comom and we'll send you helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary tocom don't forget email rich unseminary tocom don't forget email rich unseminary tocom don't forget to check out the show notes for this

to check out the show notes for this to check out the show notes for this episode at unseminary tocom it includes episode at unseminary tocom it includes episode at unseminary tocom it includes links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary