Your Church’s Growth Is Killing Your Church’s Growth

Your church's growth is killing your Your church's growth is killing your church's growth. Hey, what do I mean by church's growth. Hey, what do I mean by church's growth. Hey, what do I mean by that? It's Rich Burch here from the that? It's Rich Burch here from the that? It's Rich Burch here from the Unseminary Podcast. A solo episode Unseminary Podcast. A solo episode Unseminary Podcast. A solo episode today. This comes out of some today. This comes out of some today. This comes out of some conversations I've been having with conversations I've been having with conversations I've been having with people all across the country. We've people all across the country. We've people all across the country. We've been seeing swelling attendance in a been seeing swelling attendance in a been seeing swelling attendance in a number of places. But what does that number of places. But what does that number of places. But what does that really mean for your church? If I could really mean for your church? If I could really mean for your church? If I could sit across the table from you, I would sit across the table from you, I would sit across the table from you, I would start with a story about when I was in start with a story about when I was in start with a story about when I was in eighth grade. Well, when I was in eighth eighth grade. Well, when I was in eighth eighth grade. Well, when I was in eighth grade, I competed in the high jump. Do grade, I competed in the high jump. Do grade, I competed in the high jump. Do you remember that? The high jump. I you remember that? The high jump. I you remember that? The high jump. I could easily clear the highest thing could easily clear the highest thing could easily clear the highest thing that they would put in front of me, the that they would put in front of me, the that they would put in front of me, the highest bar. I would do a scissor kick, highest bar. I would do a scissor kick, highest bar. I would do a scissor kick, jump over it, no problem at all. In jump over it, no problem at all. In jump over it, no problem at all. In fact, I won, you know, everybody in my fact, I won, you know, everybody in my fact, I won, you know, everybody in my school, my junior high, I won, got beat school, my junior high, I won, got beat school, my junior high, I won, got beat everybody there, and then ended up in my everybody there, and then ended up in my everybody there, and then ended up in my city's competition and actually did city's competition and actually did city's competition and actually did quite well. You know, didn't get beyond quite well. You know, didn't get beyond quite well. You know, didn't get beyond the city, but did quite well. And I the city, but did quite well. And I the city, but did quite well. And I never practiced. It was just my height never practiced. It was just my height never practiced. It was just my height and the fact that I was tall. I had had and the fact that I was tall. I had had and the fact that I was tall. I had had a really early growth spurt. In fact, if a really early growth spurt. In fact, if a really early growth spurt. In fact, if you were to come and see me, if we were you were to come and see me, if we were you were to come and see me, if we were to see each other in shorts someday, to see each other in shorts someday, to see each other in shorts someday, you'd notice I still have stretch marks you'd notice I still have stretch marks you'd notice I still have stretch marks on my knees because of the growth spurt on my knees because of the growth spurt on my knees because of the growth spurt that I went through back then. Okay, so that I went through back then. Okay, so that I went through back then. Okay, so why am I talking about that? What does why am I talking about that? What does why am I talking about that? What does that have to do with your church? Well, that have to do with your church? Well, that have to do with your church? Well, this is the thing. And when I hit my this is the thing. And when I hit my this is the thing. And when I hit my next year, freshman year of high school, next year, freshman year of high school, next year, freshman year of high school, I went from being top of the class to I went from being top of the class to I went from being top of the class to being bottom of the heap in high jump.

being bottom of the heap in high jump. being bottom of the heap in high jump. And why was that? Everybody else learned And why was that? Everybody else learned And why was that? Everybody else learned the Fosberry flip. What is that? That's the Fosberry flip. What is that? That's the Fosberry flip. What is that? That's really standard what you see in high really standard what you see in high really standard what you see in high jump now. Everybody does this. It was jump now. Everybody does this. It was jump now. Everybody does this. It was invented in the 60s. This guy did this invented in the 60s. This guy did this invented in the 60s. This guy did this kind of flop over and people cleared kind of flop over and people cleared kind of flop over and people cleared heights that I just could not with my heights that I just could not with my heights that I just could not with my scissor kick. I never changed. I never scissor kick. I never changed. I never scissor kick. I never changed. I never adapted. I stayed the same. And in fact, adapted. I stayed the same. And in fact, adapted. I stayed the same. And in fact, didn't even make it out of my gym class. didn't even make it out of my gym class. didn't even make it out of my gym class. I was so bad at high jump. What does I was so bad at high jump. What does I was so bad at high jump. What does that have to do? Well, this is the that have to do? Well, this is the that have to do? Well, this is the thing. Growth can make you lazy. I thing. Growth can make you lazy. I thing. Growth can make you lazy. I realized that because I was tall and realized that because I was tall and realized that because I was tall and could scissor kick over it, I didn't could scissor kick over it, I didn't could scissor kick over it, I didn't need to learn how to improve. Churches need to learn how to improve. Churches need to learn how to improve. Churches fall into the same trap. Growth can feel fall into the same trap. Growth can feel fall into the same trap. Growth can feel like validation. More people, more buzz, like validation. More people, more buzz, like validation. More people, more buzz, frankly, more money. However, growth is frankly, more money. However, growth is frankly, more money. However, growth is toxic or can be toxic if it masks toxic or can be toxic if it masks toxic or can be toxic if it masks underlying weaknesses. It's like a sugar underlying weaknesses. It's like a sugar underlying weaknesses. It's like a sugar high with no protein in your meal. And high with no protein in your meal. And high with no protein in your meal. And so I want to talk to you about five so I want to talk to you about five so I want to talk to you about five statistics today, five measurable things statistics today, five measurable things statistics today, five measurable things that you should be looking in under your that you should be looking in under your that you should be looking in under your hood because I've seen the this in hood because I've seen the this in hood because I've seen the this in growing churches. If you don't pay growing churches. If you don't pay growing churches. If you don't pay attention to this, man, your growth attention to this, man, your growth attention to this, man, your growth could be killing your church's growth.

could be killing your church's growth. could be killing your church's growth. Number one, firsttime guest capture rate Number one, firsttime guest capture rate Number one, firsttime guest capture rate growth without numbers is just decline growth without numbers is just decline growth without numbers is just decline in disguise. So what do I mean by this? in disguise. So what do I mean by this? in disguise. So what do I mean by this? If you have lots of people attending If you have lots of people attending If you have lots of people attending your church, lots of swelled audiences, your church, lots of swelled audiences, your church, lots of swelled audiences, you've got lots of people attending, but you've got lots of people attending, but you've got lots of people attending, but you're not capturing the right guest you're not capturing the right guest you're not capturing the right guest names, if you're not capturing the names names, if you're not capturing the names names, if you're not capturing the names of those people that are coming at your of those people that are coming at your of those people that are coming at your church, you're just seeing swelled church, you're just seeing swelled church, you're just seeing swelled attendants, and you will not be able to attendants, and you will not be able to attendants, and you will not be able to follow up with these people and get them follow up with these people and get them follow up with these people and get them connected long term. In fact, it's been connected long term. In fact, it's been connected long term. In fact, it's been said that three out of 10 first-time said that three out of 10 first-time said that three out of 10 first-time guests at a church. 70% do will not guests at a church. 70% do will not guests at a church. 70% do will not provide their contact information provide their contact information provide their contact information willy-nilly to a church. You've got to willy-nilly to a church. You've got to willy-nilly to a church. You've got to incentivize to them. There's a benchmark incentivize to them. There's a benchmark incentivize to them. There's a benchmark that we work with in our coaching with that we work with in our coaching with that we work with in our coaching with churches. And what you should be seeing churches. And what you should be seeing churches. And what you should be seeing is, and this is the number, this is the is, and this is the number, this is the is, and this is the number, this is the first number we're going to look at first number we're going to look at first number we're going to look at here. You should be seeing 2% 2% average here. You should be seeing 2% 2% average here. You should be seeing 2% 2% average documented firsttime guests. So, if documented firsttime guests. So, if documented firsttime guests. So, if you're a church of a,000 people, that you're a church of a,000 people, that you're a church of a,000 people, that means every single week, week in week means every single week, week in week means every single week, week in week out, you should be seeing 20 firsttime out, you should be seeing 20 firsttime out, you should be seeing 20 firsttime guests. You should have their contact guests. You should have their contact guests. You should have their contact information. If your growing church is information. If your growing church is information. If your growing church is not seeing at least 2%, you're not not seeing at least 2%, you're not not seeing at least 2%, you're not capturing enough. It's not clear enough capturing enough. It's not clear enough capturing enough. It's not clear enough why people would give you you their why people would give you you their why people would give you you their contact information. You don't have a contact information. You don't have a contact information. You don't have a clear next step for them. You don't have clear next step for them. You don't have clear next step for them. You don't have a clear dedicated team for firsttime a clear dedicated team for firsttime a clear dedicated team for firsttime guests. You are frankly underperforming.

guests. You are frankly underperforming. guests. You are frankly underperforming. And if you don't tighten that up over And if you don't tighten that up over And if you don't tighten that up over time, you will not be able to sustain time, you will not be able to sustain time, you will not be able to sustain the growth that you're currently the growth that you're currently the growth that you're currently experiencing. Without gathering new experiencing. Without gathering new experiencing. Without gathering new guest contact information, you're just guest contact information, you're just guest contact information, you're just gathering a crowd. You're not building a gathering a crowd. You're not building a gathering a crowd. You're not building a community. So, you should audit your community. So, you should audit your community. So, you should audit your capture rate for the last 3 months. capture rate for the last 3 months. capture rate for the last 3 months. Where has that actually been at? How Where has that actually been at? How Where has that actually been at? How close are you to this 2% documented close are you to this 2% documented close are you to this 2% documented average weekly number? You need to average weekly number? You need to average weekly number? You need to create as frictionless ways for people create as frictionless ways for people create as frictionless ways for people to respond as possible. Make it easy. to respond as possible. Make it easy. to respond as possible. Make it easy. Don't make them guess. You cannot make Don't make them guess. You cannot make Don't make them guess. You cannot make this too clear. You need to be using an this too clear. You need to be using an this too clear. You need to be using an ethical bribe, a water bottle, a coffee ethical bribe, a water bottle, a coffee ethical bribe, a water bottle, a coffee mug, some swag in exchange for their mug, some swag in exchange for their mug, some swag in exchange for their contact information. Hey, your presence contact information. Hey, your presence contact information. Hey, your presence with us today has been a gift. We want with us today has been a gift. We want with us today has been a gift. We want to give you a gift. drop by the new here to give you a gift. drop by the new here to give you a gift. drop by the new here kiosk in the lobby and we would love to kiosk in the lobby and we would love to kiosk in the lobby and we would love to give you insert this ethical bribe. And give you insert this ethical bribe. And give you insert this ethical bribe. And then finally, assign accountability. then finally, assign accountability. then finally, assign accountability. Who's actually responsible for it? This Who's actually responsible for it? This Who's actually responsible for it? This number is a critical number and it needs number is a critical number and it needs number is a critical number and it needs to show up on one of your teammates to show up on one of your teammates to show up on one of your teammates dashboards. They should be thinking dashboards. They should be thinking dashboards. They should be thinking about it consistently. So that's number about it consistently. So that's number about it consistently. So that's number one. Number two, new donor retention one. Number two, new donor retention one. Number two, new donor retention gap, the revolving door of giving. Now, gap, the revolving door of giving. Now, gap, the revolving door of giving. Now, this one might take you a little bit of this one might take you a little bit of this one might take you a little bit of math. I know you got into ministry. H math. I know you got into ministry. H math. I know you got into ministry. H did you think there would be math did you think there would be math did you think there would be math involved? I didn't. This might take a involved? I didn't. This might take a involved? I didn't. This might take a little bit of math, but what I want you little bit of math, but what I want you little bit of math, but what I want you to do is to look into the retention to do is to look into the retention to do is to look into the retention rate, your overall retention rate of rate, your overall retention rate of rate, your overall retention rate of your donors. Let's say that you're your donors. Let's say that you're your donors. Let's say that you're retaining 70% of your donors retaining 70% of your donors retaining 70% of your donors yearover-year. So, every 100 donors that yearover-year. So, every 100 donors that yearover-year. So, every 100 donors that you receive that give to you, 70% give you receive that give to you, 70% give you receive that give to you, 70% give uh the next year. That would be actually uh the next year. That would be actually uh the next year. That would be actually very good. That would be a good number,

very good. That would be a good number, very good. That would be a good number, solid number for that. Now, what I want solid number for that. Now, what I want solid number for that. Now, what I want you to look at is the retention rate of you to look at is the retention rate of you to look at is the retention rate of the donors in your last full calendar the donors in your last full calendar the donors in your last full calendar year that were brand new to the church. year that were brand new to the church. year that were brand new to the church. So here we are in 2025. I would look So here we are in 2025. I would look So here we are in 2025. I would look back and say all the donors that gave back and say all the donors that gave back and say all the donors that gave for the first time in 2024, how many of for the first time in 2024, how many of for the first time in 2024, how many of those have given this year in 2025? And those have given this year in 2025? And those have given this year in 2025? And what you will see is there will be a gap what you will see is there will be a gap what you will see is there will be a gap between your long-term donors and your between your long-term donors and your between your long-term donors and your new donor retention rate. So why is this new donor retention rate. So why is this new donor retention rate. So why is this a problem? Well, let me explain this. If a problem? Well, let me explain this. If a problem? Well, let me explain this. If you do not close the gap between you do not close the gap between you do not close the gap between long-term donors versus short-term new long-term donors versus short-term new long-term donors versus short-term new donors, what will happen is you over donors, what will happen is you over donors, what will happen is you over time your retention rate will be pulled time your retention rate will be pulled time your retention rate will be pulled down by your new donors. You need to be down by your new donors. You need to be down by your new donors. You need to be more aggressive on following up those more aggressive on following up those more aggressive on following up those firsttime donors and inviting them to firsttime donors and inviting them to firsttime donors and inviting them to become a second and third time donor. become a second and third time donor. become a second and third time donor. See, what happens is as your church See, what happens is as your church See, what happens is as your church grows, you become less efficient at grows, you become less efficient at grows, you become less efficient at this. And this is frankly how churches this. And this is frankly how churches this. And this is frankly how churches run out of money because you're not uh run out of money because you're not uh run out of money because you're not uh integrating new donors as fast as you integrating new donors as fast as you integrating new donors as fast as you have with the rest of your donor have with the rest of your donor have with the rest of your donor community. Growth masks this sort of community. Growth masks this sort of community. Growth masks this sort of churn. Your overall revenue can be going churn. Your overall revenue can be going churn. Your overall revenue can be going up with new short-term donors, but if up with new short-term donors, but if up with new short-term donors, but if you're not retaining them, you won't you're not retaining them, you won't you're not retaining them, you won't sustain that long term. Growth can mask sustain that long term. Growth can mask sustain that long term. Growth can mask this because new people are constantly this because new people are constantly this because new people are constantly filling that bucket, but your bucket has filling that bucket, but your bucket has filling that bucket, but your bucket has got a hole in it. giving totals rise, got a hole in it. giving totals rise, got a hole in it. giving totals rise, but the base is fragile. When momentum but the base is fragile. When momentum but the base is fragile. When momentum slows or the economy slips or something slows or the economy slips or something slows or the economy slips or something goes wrong, you'll discover that you've

goes wrong, you'll discover that you've goes wrong, you'll discover that you've been funding your church on a ministry been funding your church on a ministry been funding your church on a ministry with a series of one night stands. with a series of one night stands. with a series of one night stands. People who give once but don't come back People who give once but don't come back People who give once but don't come back time and time again. Not long-term time and time again. Not long-term time and time again. Not long-term partners. So, what I want you to do is I partners. So, what I want you to do is I partners. So, what I want you to do is I want you to track your first time donor want you to track your first time donor want you to track your first time donor rate to second time donor rate. When rate to second time donor rate. When rate to second time donor rate. When what is it? How long does it take for what is it? How long does it take for what is it? How long does it take for them to go from one gift to many? If a them to go from one gift to many? If a them to go from one gift to many? If a hundred people give for the first time hundred people give for the first time hundred people give for the first time this year, how many of them give again this year, how many of them give again this year, how many of them give again in 90 days? Build a 48 hour thank you in 90 days? Build a 48 hour thank you in 90 days? Build a 48 hour thank you system. There's we know that there's all system. There's we know that there's all system. There's we know that there's all kinds of studies that show that the kinds of studies that show that the kinds of studies that show that the faster you follow up with donors and faster you follow up with donors and faster you follow up with donors and thank them, the more likely they are to thank them, the more likely they are to thank them, the more likely they are to give a second and third gift. So, no give a second and third gift. So, no give a second and third gift. So, no generic receipts. I want you to write generic receipts. I want you to write generic receipts. I want you to write personal thank you notes, handwritten personal thank you notes, handwritten personal thank you notes, handwritten phone calls, that sort of thing. This phone calls, that sort of thing. This phone calls, that sort of thing. This needs to be a high priority. You need to needs to be a high priority. You need to needs to be a high priority. You need to report impact consistently with your report impact consistently with your report impact consistently with your donors. Don't just say thank you. Show donors. Don't just say thank you. Show donors. Don't just say thank you. Show them how their giving is making a them how their giving is making a them how their giving is making a difference in the ministry of the difference in the ministry of the difference in the ministry of the church. When you give, good things church. When you give, good things church. When you give, good things happen. Do that on Sunday mornings happen. Do that on Sunday mornings happen. Do that on Sunday mornings through regular reporting. Back to your through regular reporting. Back to your through regular reporting. Back to your donors. Move people to recurring giving. donors. Move people to recurring giving. donors. Move people to recurring giving. If people have given in the last 90 days If people have given in the last 90 days If people have given in the last 90 days and they have not set up recurring and they have not set up recurring and they have not set up recurring giving, ask them directly to set up giving, ask them directly to set up giving, ask them directly to set up recurring giving. Listen, I want you to recurring giving. Listen, I want you to recurring giving. Listen, I want you to treat new donors in your church like treat new donors in your church like treat new donors in your church like little seedlings. They're like, "I'm little seedlings. They're like, "I'm little seedlings. They're like, "I'm growing this new grass in the front of growing this new grass in the front of growing this new grass in the front of my house this time of year. Our grass my house this time of year. Our grass my house this time of year. Our grass got scorched this summer. It was so hot.

got scorched this summer. It was so hot. got scorched this summer. It was so hot. But we're we're fixing new grass and But we're we're fixing new grass and But we're we're fixing new grass and I've got to I've had to care for that I've got to I've had to care for that I've got to I've had to care for that grass. I've had to water it. I've had to grass. I've had to water it. I've had to grass. I've had to water it. I've had to spend a lot of time. That is the same spend a lot of time. That is the same spend a lot of time. That is the same thing you should be doing with no do new thing you should be doing with no do new thing you should be doing with no do new donors. Early care determines long-term donors. Early care determines long-term donors. Early care determines long-term fruit. All right. Number three, follow fruit. All right. Number three, follow fruit. All right. Number three, follow up speed to first touch. Delay means up speed to first touch. Delay means up speed to first touch. Delay means decay. So what do I mean by this? In our decay. So what do I mean by this? In our decay. So what do I mean by this? In our world, speed is the new currency. You world, speed is the new currency. You world, speed is the new currency. You you know this. You give business to you know this. You give business to you know this. You give business to organizations that frankly just move organizations that frankly just move organizations that frankly just move faster than other businesses. Amazon has faster than other businesses. Amazon has faster than other businesses. Amazon has told us this, man. They ship within 24 told us this, man. They ship within 24 told us this, man. They ship within 24 hours. And they've taught us this. hours. And they've taught us this. hours. And they've taught us this. They're they're shaping our culture. They're they're shaping our culture. They're they're shaping our culture. When I click a button, the distance When I click a button, the distance When I click a button, the distance between when I click that and when I between when I click that and when I between when I click that and when I shows up, it just gets keeps getting shows up, it just gets keeps getting shows up, it just gets keeps getting shorter and shorter and shorter. It was shorter and shorter and shorter. It was shorter and shorter and shorter. It was 5 days, then two days, then one day, 5 days, then two days, then one day, 5 days, then two days, then one day, then same day, then within hours. And then same day, then within hours. And then same day, then within hours. And our churches, if we delay and don't have our churches, if we delay and don't have our churches, if we delay and don't have intensity with following up with intensity with following up with intensity with following up with firsttime guests, so we've collected firsttime guests, so we've collected firsttime guests, so we've collected that contact information. If we have not that contact information. If we have not that contact information. If we have not followed up quickly, we will lose those followed up quickly, we will lose those followed up quickly, we will lose those first-time connections. I've said it for first-time connections. I've said it for first-time connections. I've said it for years for campus pastors as we're years for campus pastors as we're years for campus pastors as we're launching a new location. I'll say, launching a new location. I'll say, launching a new location. I'll say, "Listen, I know your church has some "Listen, I know your church has some "Listen, I know your church has some sort of follow-up system, but what I sort of follow-up system, but what I sort of follow-up system, but what I want you to do is to grab those cards or want you to do is to grab those cards or want you to do is to grab those cards or to get that contact information on to get that contact information on to get that contact information on Sunday. And then after dinner, Sunday Sunday. And then after dinner, Sunday Sunday. And then after dinner, Sunday night before bedtime, get on the phone night before bedtime, get on the phone night before bedtime, get on the phone and call every one of your first-time and call every one of your first-time and call every one of your first-time guests." We say that to new campus guests." We say that to new campus guests." We say that to new campus pastors because we need that. We we want pastors because we need that. We we want pastors because we need that. We we want to see those guests return time and time to see those guests return time and time to see those guests return time and time again in a new location. If you're again in a new location. If you're again in a new location. If you're experiencing a swell in attendance at experiencing a swell in attendance at experiencing a swell in attendance at your church, we need that kind of your church, we need that kind of your church, we need that kind of intensity with your new here guests to

intensity with your new here guests to intensity with your new here guests to see those people coming back time and see those people coming back time and see those people coming back time and time again. Too many churches are too time again. Too many churches are too time again. Too many churches are too scared to show some intensity and scared to show some intensity and scared to show some intensity and passion in their follow-up process. I passion in their follow-up process. I passion in their follow-up process. I like to call this the principle of 711. like to call this the principle of 711. like to call this the principle of 711. What do I mean by 7-Eleven? It's seven What do I mean by 7-Eleven? It's seven What do I mean by 7-Eleven? It's seven contacts in the first 11 days. I know contacts in the first 11 days. I know contacts in the first 11 days. I know that sounds crazy, but that is the kind that sounds crazy, but that is the kind that sounds crazy, but that is the kind of follow-up that is working and of follow-up that is working and of follow-up that is working and prevailing at churches all across the prevailing at churches all across the prevailing at churches all across the country. I bet your dentist is better at country. I bet your dentist is better at country. I bet your dentist is better at following up with you to get you to show following up with you to get you to show following up with you to get you to show up to the church than your church is in up to the church than your church is in up to the church than your church is in following up with first-time guests. And following up with first-time guests. And following up with first-time guests. And all they're trying to do is to clean my all they're trying to do is to clean my all they're trying to do is to clean my teeth, put some fluoride in. We've got teeth, put some fluoride in. We've got teeth, put some fluoride in. We've got an eternal message that we're trying to an eternal message that we're trying to an eternal message that we're trying to literally turn back the tide of our literally turn back the tide of our literally turn back the tide of our culture and see people encounter Jesus. culture and see people encounter Jesus. culture and see people encounter Jesus. We need the kind of intensity where we We need the kind of intensity where we We need the kind of intensity where we follow up quickly and often in follow up quickly and often in follow up quickly and often in particularly in those first couple weeks particularly in those first couple weeks particularly in those first couple weeks after a first-time guest arrives. So, after a first-time guest arrives. So, after a first-time guest arrives. So, build a system. It's a handwritten note build a system. It's a handwritten note build a system. It's a handwritten note by your new here kiosk team on Sunday. by your new here kiosk team on Sunday. by your new here kiosk team on Sunday. It's a Sunday afternoon phone call or It's a Sunday afternoon phone call or It's a Sunday afternoon phone call or text from a campus pastor. It's a Monday text from a campus pastor. It's a Monday text from a campus pastor. It's a Monday email from the church. It's a Tuesday email from the church. It's a Tuesday email from the church. It's a Tuesday phone call from a volunteer whose job is phone call from a volunteer whose job is phone call from a volunteer whose job is to help people get connected. You've got to help people get connected. You've got to help people get connected. You've got to share the load. This can't all be to share the load. This can't all be to share the load. This can't all be staff. We've got to take some intensity staff. We've got to take some intensity staff. We've got to take some intensity on this. Follow-up speed to first touch on this. Follow-up speed to first touch on this. Follow-up speed to first touch is a critical thing. You may have a lot is a critical thing. You may have a lot is a critical thing. You may have a lot of guests, but if we're not if we're not of guests, but if we're not if we're not of guests, but if we're not if we're not following up with them, they will not following up with them, they will not following up with them, they will not stick and stay long term. Number four, stick and stay long term. Number four, stick and stay long term. Number four, kids and students capacity ratio. This kids and students capacity ratio. This kids and students capacity ratio. This is the family filter. So friends, your is the family filter. So friends, your is the family filter. So friends, your church at your church, we see this time church at your church, we see this time church at your church, we see this time and again. I'm thankful for our friends and again. I'm thankful for our friends and again. I'm thankful for our friends at Unstuck. They've looked at this for

at Unstuck. They've looked at this for at Unstuck. They've looked at this for years. 30% of your attendance should be years. 30% of your attendance should be years. 30% of your attendance should be children and young people. Should be the children and young people. Should be the children and young people. Should be the students and kids at your church. Why is students and kids at your church. Why is students and kids at your church. Why is this an import an important if issue? this an import an important if issue? this an import an important if issue? This ratio is not a nice to have. It is This ratio is not a nice to have. It is This ratio is not a nice to have. It is the strongest. It's the single strongest the strongest. It's the single strongest the strongest. It's the single strongest indicator of long-term health of your indicator of long-term health of your indicator of long-term health of your church. If it's below this 30%, if it's church. If it's below this 30%, if it's church. If it's below this 30%, if it's below if it's below 20%, so it's like a below if it's below 20%, so it's like a below if it's below 20%, so it's like a third less, you've got a real problem. third less, you've got a real problem. third less, you've got a real problem. You're drawing adults but not reaching You're drawing adults but not reaching You're drawing adults but not reaching families. And without families, frankly, families. And without families, frankly, families. And without families, frankly, your church doesn't have a f a future. your church doesn't have a f a future. your church doesn't have a f a future. You might be celebrating growth today, You might be celebrating growth today, You might be celebrating growth today, but let me say this as a person of a but let me say this as a person of a but let me say this as a person of a certain age. If you're just attracting certain age. If you're just attracting certain age. If you're just attracting older adults, your church doesn't have a older adults, your church doesn't have a older adults, your church doesn't have a future. More adults in seats, busy future. More adults in seats, busy future. More adults in seats, busy lobby, but if kids are not in the mix, lobby, but if kids are not in the mix, lobby, but if kids are not in the mix, and if 30% of your audience is the and if 30% of your audience is the and if 30% of your audience is the people that attend on Sunday, if they people that attend on Sunday, if they people that attend on Sunday, if they are not students and young people, then are not students and young people, then are not students and young people, then the next generation is burning off and the next generation is burning off and the next generation is burning off and you will it'll just be it's just a you will it'll just be it's just a you will it'll just be it's just a matter of time before your church begins matter of time before your church begins matter of time before your church begins to recede and lose its impact in its in to recede and lose its impact in its in to recede and lose its impact in its in its community. Parents may love the its community. Parents may love the its community. Parents may love the preaching. They may love the music. They preaching. They may love the music. They preaching. They may love the music. They may love the atmosphere. But if their may love the atmosphere. But if their may love the atmosphere. But if their kids do not come and if you are not kids do not come and if you are not kids do not come and if you are not drawing parents with kids to your drawing parents with kids to your drawing parents with kids to your community, you are literally 5 years community, you are literally 5 years community, you are literally 5 years away from significant decline of the away from significant decline of the away from significant decline of the church. I was talking to a friend church. I was talking to a friend church. I was talking to a friend recently who literally experienced this recently who literally experienced this recently who literally experienced this at their church years ago. They were at their church years ago. They were at their church years ago. They were like, at first it started we didn't have like, at first it started we didn't have like, at first it started we didn't have anybody in the nursery and then it was, anybody in the nursery and then it was, anybody in the nursery and then it was, you know, the early elementary. Then it you know, the early elementary. Then it you know, the early elementary. Then it was all of elementary and then before was all of elementary and then before was all of elementary and then before you knew it, the church was in decline.

you knew it, the church was in decline. you knew it, the church was in decline. So what percentage of your church is So what percentage of your church is So what percentage of your church is under 18 years of age? Don't guess, under 18 years of age? Don't guess, under 18 years of age? Don't guess, track it. This needs to be on a track it. This needs to be on a track it. This needs to be on a dashboard somewhere. Aim for 20 to 30%, dashboard somewhere. Aim for 20 to 30%, dashboard somewhere. Aim for 20 to 30%, 30% is the goal. If you're below 20%, 30% is the goal. If you're below 20%, 30% is the goal. If you're below 20%, families are are slipping through the families are are slipping through the families are are slipping through the cracks. Above 30%, uh, you're doing cracks. Above 30%, uh, you're doing cracks. Above 30%, uh, you're doing great as a church. Compare this rate great as a church. Compare this rate great as a church. Compare this rate ratio year-over-year. Let's go back the ratio year-over-year. Let's go back the ratio year-over-year. Let's go back the last number of years and look at where last number of years and look at where last number of years and look at where that was. Are is the number stable or that was. Are is the number stable or that was. Are is the number stable or growing? Then you've got a future. If growing? Then you've got a future. If growing? Then you've got a future. If it's shrinking, then you might be in it's shrinking, then you might be in it's shrinking, then you might be in decline. Your church literally might decline. Your church literally might decline. Your church literally might just be getting a year older every year. just be getting a year older every year. just be getting a year older every year. And that spells problems for the future And that spells problems for the future And that spells problems for the future of your church. Listen to the levers. of your church. Listen to the levers. of your church. Listen to the levers. Reach out to people who have maybe left Reach out to people who have maybe left Reach out to people who have maybe left your church, families that have left your church, families that have left your church, families that have left your church, and just simply ask them, your church, and just simply ask them, your church, and just simply ask them, "Hey, I'm not trying to convince you to "Hey, I'm not trying to convince you to "Hey, I'm not trying to convince you to come back, but I want to hear from you. come back, but I want to hear from you. come back, but I want to hear from you. I want to learn from you." Tell lots of I want to learn from you." Tell lots of I want to learn from you." Tell lots of stories. Listen, we need next generation stories. Listen, we need next generation stories. Listen, we need next generation kids in our ministry. They need to be an kids in our ministry. They need to be an kids in our ministry. They need to be an active part of what happens at our active part of what happens at our active part of what happens at our church. Number five, staffing leverage. church. Number five, staffing leverage. church. Number five, staffing leverage. Stop hiring doers. Start hiring leaders. Stop hiring doers. Start hiring leaders. Stop hiring doers. Start hiring leaders. Okay, this one might hurt a little bit. Okay, this one might hurt a little bit. Okay, this one might hurt a little bit. This one, I know there's some people who This one, I know there's some people who This one, I know there's some people who are they're not going to like this one are they're not going to like this one are they're not going to like this one at all. Uh, one of the problems with a at all. Uh, one of the problems with a at all. Uh, one of the problems with a growing church, a fast growing church, growing church, a fast growing church, growing church, a fast growing church, is more revenue comes in and there's a is more revenue comes in and there's a is more revenue comes in and there's a lot of work to be done and there's lots lot of work to be done and there's lots lot of work to be done and there's lots of things going on and you're going to of things going on and you're going to of things going on and you're going to be tempted. You're going to be tempted be tempted. You're going to be tempted be tempted. You're going to be tempted to add more staff. And the problem with to add more staff. And the problem with to add more staff. And the problem with that is if you add staff to your church, that is if you add staff to your church, that is if you add staff to your church, if you overstaff your church, you're if you overstaff your church, you're if you overstaff your church, you're literally taking things away from literally taking things away from literally taking things away from volunteers and giving them to staff. If volunteers and giving them to staff. If volunteers and giving them to staff. If that's the behavior that's happening at that's the behavior that's happening at that's the behavior that's happening at your church, that's the beginning of your church, that's the beginning of your church, that's the beginning of decline for your church. It literally decline for your church. It literally decline for your church. It literally is. It's the beginning of the decline of

is. It's the beginning of the decline of is. It's the beginning of the decline of your church. If it feels like you're your church. If it feels like you're your church. If it feels like you're understaffed, that's a good thing. understaffed, that's a good thing. understaffed, that's a good thing. Ephesians 4, we are called to be Ephesians 4, we are called to be Ephesians 4, we are called to be equippers. We're the people that are equippers. We're the people that are equippers. We're the people that are supposed to equip the saints to do the supposed to equip the saints to do the supposed to equip the saints to do the work. Their job is to do our job is to work. Their job is to do our job is to work. Their job is to do our job is to equip. So the numbers you're looking for equip. So the numbers you're looking for equip. So the numbers you're looking for here is you're looking for 75 attendees here is you're looking for 75 attendees here is you're looking for 75 attendees to one for every staff that you have. to one for every staff that you have. to one for every staff that you have. Ideally, actually 100 to one, but 75 to1 Ideally, actually 100 to one, but 75 to1 Ideally, actually 100 to one, but 75 to1 is a good place to start. And you don't is a good place to start. And you don't is a good place to start. And you don't want to have any more than 50% of your want to have any more than 50% of your want to have any more than 50% of your budget associated with staff spending. budget associated with staff spending. budget associated with staff spending. Anything more than that, uh, anything Anything more than that, uh, anything Anything more than that, uh, anything higher than that or worse than these higher than that or worse than these higher than that or worse than these ratios, you're you're beginning the the ratios, you're you're beginning the the ratios, you're you're beginning the the steps towards decline as a church. And steps towards decline as a church. And steps towards decline as a church. And insidiously dangerous behavior is when insidiously dangerous behavior is when insidiously dangerous behavior is when the work flows from volunteers. Things the work flows from volunteers. Things the work flows from volunteers. Things that used to be done by volunteers are that used to be done by volunteers are that used to be done by volunteers are now being done by staff. You've got to now being done by staff. You've got to now being done by staff. You've got to watch for that. And literally we're watch for that. And literally we're watch for that. And literally we're looking for the reverse of that flow is looking for the reverse of that flow is looking for the reverse of that flow is the healthy thing. Things that are the healthy thing. Things that are the healthy thing. Things that are currently done by your staff. This is currently done by your staff. This is currently done by your staff. This is how your team is going to scale up. We how your team is going to scale up. We how your team is going to scale up. We need to envision them for a future where need to envision them for a future where need to envision them for a future where things that they currently do as a paid things that they currently do as a paid things that they currently do as a paid staff member to being done by staff member to being done by staff member to being done by volunteers. How do we build leaders who volunteers. How do we build leaders who volunteers. How do we build leaders who will give everything away? Look at the will give everything away? Look at the will give everything away? Look at the team members around you who are giving team members around you who are giving team members around you who are giving the most away. Those are the people that the most away. Those are the people that the most away. Those are the people that are helping your church scale and grow are helping your church scale and grow are helping your church scale and grow long term. What percentage of your long term. What percentage of your long term. What percentage of your adults serve regularly? It needs to be adults serve regularly? It needs to be adults serve regularly? It needs to be above 30%. It needs to be regular. We above 30%. It needs to be regular. We above 30%. It needs to be regular. We need to be finding ways to move people need to be finding ways to move people need to be finding ways to move people on. This becomes harder as we grow.

on. This becomes harder as we grow. on. This becomes harder as we grow. Define job descriptions. Write out job Define job descriptions. Write out job Define job descriptions. Write out job descriptions of people's roles. Make descriptions of people's roles. Make descriptions of people's roles. Make sure that it's super clear what all sure that it's super clear what all sure that it's super clear what all these different varying levels of staff these different varying levels of staff these different varying levels of staff lead or or volunteer leaders are doing. lead or or volunteer leaders are doing. lead or or volunteer leaders are doing. Launch a leadership pathway or pipeline Launch a leadership pathway or pipeline Launch a leadership pathway or pipeline to train empower and release volunteers to train empower and release volunteers to train empower and release volunteers to lead in your ministry. Staff who to lead in your ministry. Staff who to lead in your ministry. Staff who insist on doing everything aren't insist on doing everything aren't insist on doing everything aren't heroes. They're bottlenecks. staff who heroes. They're bottlenecks. staff who heroes. They're bottlenecks. staff who reach for another hire instead of reach for another hire instead of reach for another hire instead of mobilizing aren't scaling ministry. mobilizing aren't scaling ministry. mobilizing aren't scaling ministry. They're frankly slowing it down and They're frankly slowing it down and They're frankly slowing it down and maybe sewing the seeds of death in your maybe sewing the seeds of death in your maybe sewing the seeds of death in your ministry even when you're at your peak. ministry even when you're at your peak. ministry even when you're at your peak. So, coming down to land here, friends, So, coming down to land here, friends, So, coming down to land here, friends, you know, I once had a mentor of mine you know, I once had a mentor of mine you know, I once had a mentor of mine say that the decline of a church starts say that the decline of a church starts say that the decline of a church starts the day after its best day. If you're the day after its best day. If you're the day after its best day. If you're experiencing big attendance in this experiencing big attendance in this experiencing big attendance in this season, if you're experiencing season, if you're experiencing season, if you're experiencing incredible momentum, let's be thankful incredible momentum, let's be thankful incredible momentum, let's be thankful for that. God's doing an amazing thing for that. God's doing an amazing thing for that. God's doing an amazing thing in your church. But now is the time to in your church. But now is the time to in your church. But now is the time to think about what's actually happening at think about what's actually happening at think about what's actually happening at our church. Don't be fooled by just our church. Don't be fooled by just our church. Don't be fooled by just nickels and noses. Look under the hood. nickels and noses. Look under the hood. nickels and noses. Look under the hood. What are some of these dynamics that are What are some of these dynamics that are What are some of these dynamics that are taking place under the hood that you taking place under the hood that you taking place under the hood that you need to address now in this season to to need to address now in this season to to need to address now in this season to to ensure what's going on will will sustain ensure what's going on will will sustain ensure what's going on will will sustain for years, for decades to come. So run for years, for decades to come. So run for years, for decades to come. So run the numbers, capture all these rates, the numbers, capture all these rates, the numbers, capture all these rates, figure out where you're at, benchmark figure out where you're at, benchmark figure out where you're at, benchmark against others, set some targets. What against others, set some targets. What against others, set some targets. What are what are some ways what are some are what are some ways what are some are what are some ways what are some activities we can need to take to move activities we can need to take to move activities we can need to take to move people towards seeing these numbers people towards seeing these numbers people towards seeing these numbers improve? Assign ownership. Make sure improve? Assign ownership. Make sure improve? Assign ownership. Make sure that people on your team actually own that people on your team actually own that people on your team actually own these vital statistics. Communicate these vital statistics. Communicate these vital statistics. Communicate urgency. Don't we want to celebrate that

urgency. Don't we want to celebrate that urgency. Don't we want to celebrate that things are good, but don't be lulled things are good, but don't be lulled things are good, but don't be lulled into the sense that they're always going into the sense that they're always going into the sense that they're always going to be how they are now. Winter is to be how they are now. Winter is to be how they are now. Winter is coming. We need to work now to be ready coming. We need to work now to be ready coming. We need to work now to be ready to ensure that our churches are trending to ensure that our churches are trending to ensure that our churches are trending more towards health, not towards these more towards health, not towards these more towards health, not towards these eroding statistics that could be eroding statistics that could be eroding statistics that could be happening underneath our very feet. And happening underneath our very feet. And happening underneath our very feet. And then finally, invest accordingly. You then finally, invest accordingly. You then finally, invest accordingly. You know, you're going to have to invest to know, you're going to have to invest to know, you're going to have to invest to make some changes here. You're going to make some changes here. You're going to make some changes here. You're going to have to move some staff around. You're have to move some staff around. You're have to move some staff around. You're going to have to find a way to, you going to have to find a way to, you going to have to find a way to, you know, maybe invest in some new systems, know, maybe invest in some new systems, know, maybe invest in some new systems, some new approaches to to deal with the some new approaches to to deal with the some new approaches to to deal with the new reality of so many new people coming new reality of so many new people coming new reality of so many new people coming to your church. But we need to make to your church. But we need to make to your church. But we need to make those decisions now and move forward and those decisions now and move forward and those decisions now and move forward and work to to improve the the internal work to to improve the the internal work to to improve the the internal dynamics that are impacting our church dynamics that are impacting our church dynamics that are impacting our church for the long haul. Listen, growth is a for the long haul. Listen, growth is a for the long haul. Listen, growth is a gift. I'm thankful if your church is gift. I'm thankful if your church is gift. I'm thankful if your church is growing. Don't get me wrong on that. growing. Don't get me wrong on that. growing. Don't get me wrong on that. Don't hear me wrong on that. But it's Don't hear me wrong on that. But it's Don't hear me wrong on that. But it's also a test. The question isn't are we also a test. The question isn't are we also a test. The question isn't are we growing. The question is, are we growing. The question is, are we growing. The question is, are we stewarding what's happening today to stewarding what's happening today to stewarding what's happening today to sustain this for the long haul? Don't sustain this for the long haul? Don't sustain this for the long haul? Don't let your church's growth kill your let your church's growth kill your let your church's growth kill your church's growth. Build the systems, church's growth. Build the systems, church's growth. Build the systems, strengthen the foundation, and make the strengthen the foundation, and make the strengthen the foundation, and make the shift from a tall middle school kid who shift from a tall middle school kid who shift from a tall middle school kid who could scissor kick to the organization could scissor kick to the organization could scissor kick to the organization that can fossbury flip over any high that can fossbury flip over any high that can fossbury flip over any high jump. Listen, I'm excited for you jump. Listen, I'm excited for you jump. Listen, I'm excited for you friends. Thanks for being a part of friends. Thanks for being a part of friends. Thanks for being a part of Unseminary. We've got lots of resources Unseminary. We've got lots of resources Unseminary. We've got lots of resources to help with all this stuff, but to help with all this stuff, but to help with all this stuff, but appreciate you and what you're doing in appreciate you and what you're doing in appreciate you and what you're doing in your church. Take care.