Brent Dolfo on Critical Leadership Development Lessons from Growing Churches

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by church community brought to you by church community brought to you by church community builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness church community builder provides church community builder provides church community builder provides leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into engagement of our church community engagement of our church community engagement of our church community helping us close the gaps that allow 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alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around these parts thank you so much for tuning these parts thank you so much for tuning these parts thank you so much for tuning in happy Thursday we hope as you head in happy Thursday we hope as you head in happy Thursday we hope as you head into this weekend we know things are into this weekend we know things are into this weekend we know things are really busy at your church we know that really busy at your church we know that really busy at your church we know that you've got a lot going on and we're just you've got a lot going on and we're just you've got a lot going on and we're just honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time out to just pause and reflect and grow a out to just pause and reflect and grow a out to just pause and reflect and grow a little bit so thank you for putting us little bit so thank you for putting us little bit so thank you for putting us in your ear buds today we're honored to in your ear buds today we're honored to in your ear buds today we're honored to have Brent dolfo from leadership network have Brent dolfo from leadership network have Brent dolfo from leadership network with us for folks that don't know with us for folks that don't know with us for folks that don't know leadership network I think I always like leadership network I think I always like leadership network I think I always like to say the leadership network guys are to say the leadership network guys are to say the leadership network guys are the smartest guys in the room they're an the smartest guys in the room they're an the smartest guys in the room they're an organization that really is dedicated to organization that really is dedicated to organization that really is dedicated to try to really see 10x impact happen in try to really see 10x impact happen in try to really see 10x impact happen in churches they really are trying to churches they really are trying to churches they really are trying to network together thinkers from churches network together thinkers from churches network together thinkers from churches and not just thinkers but do research and not just thinkers but do research and not just thinkers but do research that are making a big impact and brent that are making a big impact and brent that are making a big impact and brent is a part of the team there he's Grand

is a part of the team there he's Grand is a part of the team there he's Grand Poobah of all things leadership Poobah of all things leadership Poobah of all things leadership development so Brent welcome to the show development so Brent welcome to the show development so Brent welcome to the show I tell us a little bit about give us how I tell us a little bit about give us how I tell us a little bit about give us how you describe leadership network and then you describe leadership network and then you describe leadership network and then what you do there yeah leadership what you do there yeah leadership what you do there yeah leadership network gathers large church leaders network gathers large church leaders network gathers large church leaders together to innovate to think about new together to innovate to think about new together to innovate to think about new ideas but also how to turn them into ideas but also how to turn them into ideas but also how to turn them into reality so moving from ideas to reality so moving from ideas to reality so moving from ideas to implementation to impact and so we do to implementation to impact and so we do to implementation to impact and so we do to kind of gatherings one are sort of lead kind of gatherings one are sort of lead kind of gatherings one are sort of lead team gatherings that gather around to team gatherings that gather around to team gatherings that gather around to work on a particular question and make work on a particular question and make work on a particular question and make impact or the other group are more impact or the other group are more impact or the other group are more senior leader of senior pastors that are senior leader of senior pastors that are senior leader of senior pastors that are gathering together to learn gathering together to learn gathering together to learn for one another but the all the idea is for one another but the all the idea is for one another but the all the idea is how do we turn vision into action hi how do we turn vision into action hi how do we turn vision into action hi Jake good ideas and make them into good Jake good ideas and make them into good Jake good ideas and make them into good strategies and good ministry very cool strategies and good ministry very cool strategies and good ministry very cool now if you've been listening to the now if you've been listening to the now if you've been listening to the inseminary podcast recently we've been inseminary podcast recently we've been inseminary podcast recently we've been gone through this run of really gone through this run of really gone through this run of really interviewing executive pastor senior interviewing executive pastor senior interviewing executive pastor senior leaders from some of the fastest growing leaders from some of the fastest growing leaders from some of the fastest growing churches in the country and it seems churches in the country and it seems churches in the country and it seems like leadership development is a core like leadership development is a core like leadership development is a core theme at all of them churches that are theme at all of them churches that are theme at all of them churches that are making an impact have figured out how to making an impact have figured out how to making an impact have figured out how to develop leaders release them you know develop leaders release them you know develop leaders release them you know ultimately not just in their church but ultimately not just in their church but ultimately not just in their church but in you know the world around them in you know the world around them in you know the world around them obviously that's been a part of what obviously that's been a part of what obviously that's been a part of what you've been wrestling through that's you've been wrestling through that's you've been wrestling through that's been a part of the story there wonder if been a part of the story there wonder if been a part of the story there wonder if we could you could give us a sense of we could you could give us a sense of we could you could give us a sense of some of the lessons you've learned as some of the lessons you've learned as some of the lessons you've learned as you've been interacting with leaders in you've been interacting with leaders in you've been interacting with leaders in some of these churches yeah and what some of these churches yeah and what some of these churches yeah and what I've been doing is I've had a six or I've been doing is I've had a six or I've been doing is I've had a six or seven cohorts on large churches 10 or 12 seven cohorts on large churches 10 or 12 seven cohorts on large churches 10 or 12 that will gather for two years together that will gather for two years together that will gather for two years together to work on creating a an excellent

to work on creating a an excellent to work on creating a an excellent leadership development pipeline pathway leadership development pipeline pathway leadership development pipeline pathway and talk about all the elements that go and talk about all the elements that go and talk about all the elements that go into making that really work and the into making that really work and the into making that really work and the first one that we've discovered that's first one that we've discovered that's first one that we've discovered that's really in question is what I would call really in question is what I would call really in question is what I would call the why question they have developed a the why question they have developed a the why question they have developed a narrative by which why we do we need to narrative by which why we do we need to narrative by which why we do we need to develop leaders and usually the develop leaders and usually the develop leaders and usually the narrative is around either we're a narrative is around either we're a narrative is around either we're a multi-site church we want to plant more multi-site church we want to plant more multi-site church we want to plant more multi-site locations it can be where a multi-site locations it can be where a multi-site locations it can be where a church planting church we want to plant church planting church we want to plant church planting church we want to plant more churches it can be that we want to more churches it can be that we want to more churches it can be that we want to really make an impact in our community really make an impact in our community really make an impact in our community and we don't have enough leaders to do and we don't have enough leaders to do and we don't have enough leaders to do it and so everybody has sort of had this it and so everybody has sort of had this it and so everybody has sort of had this ideas multiplication or community impact ideas multiplication or community impact ideas multiplication or community impact or growth leads us to this crisis of if or growth leads us to this crisis of if or growth leads us to this crisis of if we don't develop more leaders we're not we don't develop more leaders we're not we don't develop more leaders we're not going to be able to do all that and going to be able to do all that and going to be able to do all that and because there's this other narrative because there's this other narrative because there's this other narrative going on to the church which is more going on to the church which is more going on to the church which is more consumeristic meet my needs develop consumeristic meet my needs develop consumeristic meet my needs develop programs for our people if you if you programs for our people if you if you programs for our people if you if you lose sight of the expansion or lose sight of the expansion or lose sight of the expansion or multiplication narrative usually what multiplication narrative usually what multiplication narrative usually what happens is leadership development falls happens is leadership development falls happens is leadership development falls off mmm the agenda now the why is this off mmm the agenda now the why is this off mmm the agenda now the why is this is this more specific or the tricks is this more specific or the tricks is this more specific or the tricks you're seeing more specific than just you're seeing more specific than just you're seeing more specific than just kind of the Great Commission sort of yes kind of the Great Commission sort of yes kind of the Great Commission sort of yes we're trying to reach everyone in the we're trying to reach everyone in the we're trying to reach everyone in the world yeah it's more particular to world yeah it's more particular to world yeah it's more particular to here's what we've been called to do here's what we've been called to do here's what we've been called to do here's what the piece we all here's what the piece we all here's what the piece we all and that's really stretching us and we and that's really stretching us and we and that's really stretching us and we don't have enough leaders to do it and don't have enough leaders to do it and don't have enough leaders to do it and so if we don't lean into leadership so if we don't lean into leadership so if we don't lean into leadership development we can't go after that next development we can't go after that next development we can't go after that next community that next city dot next

community that next city dot next community that next city dot next neighborhood that little middle school neighborhood that little middle school neighborhood that little middle school that we want to impact if we don't have that we want to impact if we don't have that we want to impact if we don't have enough leaders we can't do that and no enough leaders we can't do that and no enough leaders we can't do that and no one's going to produce them for us one's going to produce them for us one's going to produce them for us they're not going to show up on our they're not going to show up on our they're not going to show up on our doorstep ready to roll we have to do doorstep ready to roll we have to do doorstep ready to roll we have to do that and so they're this this crisis of that and so they're this this crisis of that and so they're this this crisis of scope our scope is too big given the scope our scope is too big given the scope our scope is too big given the amount of leaders we have churches do a amount of leaders we have churches do a amount of leaders we have churches do a great job with leadership development great job with leadership development great job with leadership development have a narrative that's very have a narrative that's very have a narrative that's very personalized towards why they need to personalized towards why they need to personalized towards why they need to develop leaders very cool make it really develop leaders very cool make it really develop leaders very cool make it really pedestrian so it's really going to take pedestrian so it's really going to take pedestrian so it's really going to take it up and run with it is there a church it up and run with it is there a church it up and run with it is there a church that you think does the kind of is a that you think does the kind of is a that you think does the kind of is a shining example that they've done a shining example that they've done a shining example that they've done a really good job on that I'm sure there's really good job on that I'm sure there's really good job on that I'm sure there's a lot obviously you've dealt with a lot a lot obviously you've dealt with a lot a lot obviously you've dealt with a lot of church is there anybody that kind of of church is there anybody that kind of of church is there anybody that kind of jumped at the front of mine for you yeah jumped at the front of mine for you yeah jumped at the front of mine for you yeah I think the guys that I really would I think the guys that I really would I think the guys that I really would talk about would be the guys at talk about would be the guys at talk about would be the guys at community christian Chicago's Dave and community christian Chicago's Dave and community christian Chicago's Dave and John Ferguson the new thing network that John Ferguson the new thing network that John Ferguson the new thing network that hosts the exponential conference those hosts the exponential conference those hosts the exponential conference those guys have done a really good job of guys have done a really good job of guys have done a really good job of creating a passion within their people creating a passion within their people creating a passion within their people is that we're here to help people find is that we're here to help people find is that we're here to help people find their way back to God and there's so their way back to God and there's so their way back to God and there's so many pockets around Chicago that people many pockets around Chicago that people many pockets around Chicago that people need to find god there's so many need to find god there's so many need to find god there's so many churches we need to plant in the world churches we need to plant in the world churches we need to plant in the world and so everybody grows up with this idea and so everybody grows up with this idea and so everybody grows up with this idea that the only way we're going to get that the only way we're going to get that the only way we're going to get there is if we develop leaders with there is if we develop leaders with there is if we develop leaders with passion and giftedness and calling that passion and giftedness and calling that passion and giftedness and calling that can go do those things and they do a can go do those things and they do a can go do those things and they do a fabulous job with that very cool what's fabulous job with that very cool what's fabulous job with that very cool what's another so why question that's obviously another so why question that's obviously another so why question that's obviously a big what are some of the other things a big what are some of the other things a big what are some of the other things you're seeing from now the other thing you're seeing from now the other thing you're seeing from now the other thing the other thing that I would say is churches do a really good job have come churches do a really good job have come to a point where they have developed a to a point where they have developed a to a point where they have developed a good apprentice amodel of leadership

good apprentice amodel of leadership good apprentice amodel of leadership development in the old days it used to development in the old days it used to development in the old days it used to be go to this class or go to seminary be go to this class or go to seminary be go to this class or go to seminary and go to these places and then you're and go to these places and then you're and go to these places and then you're going to be a leader and I think what going to be a leader and I think what going to be a leader and I think what everybody's realized now is you know the everybody's realized now is you know the everybody's realized now is you know the way Jesus developed his guys was come way Jesus developed his guys was come way Jesus developed his guys was come with me and we're going to go do this with me and we're going to go do this with me and we're going to go do this cool ministry stuff and you're going to cool ministry stuff and you're going to cool ministry stuff and you're going to learn how to do it and then I didn't learn how to do it and then I didn't learn how to do it and then I didn't tell you this part now I'm going to tell you this part now I'm going to tell you this part now I'm going to actually go send you to go do it actually go send you to go do it actually go send you to go do it yourself and so churches have taken that yourself and so churches have taken that yourself and so churches have taken that are doing a great job and leadership are doing a great job and leadership are doing a great job and leadership development have really doing a great development have really doing a great development have really doing a great job of apprentices new leader job of apprentices new leader job of apprentices new leader every leader has an apprentice every every leader has an apprentice every every leader has an apprentice every leader has somebody that they're trying leader has somebody that they're trying leader has somebody that they're trying to develop and that becomes part of to develop and that becomes part of to develop and that becomes part of their culture of what what they measure their culture of what what they measure their culture of what what they measure what they value and so that's something what they value and so that's something what they value and so that's something that they do really really well and tied that they do really really well and tied that they do really really well and tied right along with that is what Michael right along with that is what Michael right along with that is what Michael Fletcher at mad at church in Fletcher at mad at church in Fletcher at mad at church in fayetteville north carolina will call fayetteville north carolina will call fayetteville north carolina will call shoulder tapping or guys of community shoulder tapping or guys of community shoulder tapping or guys of community christian call i see in you moments it's christian call i see in you moments it's christian call i see in you moments it's having that elevator pitch of why the having that elevator pitch of why the having that elevator pitch of why the kingdom is so critical and what this kingdom is so critical and what this kingdom is so critical and what this role that i do is so critical in the role that i do is so critical in the role that i do is so critical in the kingdom and i would i see so many great kingdom and i would i see so many great kingdom and i would i see so many great things and you i calling out things I things and you i calling out things I things and you i calling out things I see in you and hey would you love to see in you and hey would you love to see in you and hey would you love to learn how to do what I do would you love learn how to do what I do would you love learn how to do what I do would you love to be part of the team that we can kind to be part of the team that we can kind to be part of the team that we can kind of lead this together and I can teach of lead this together and I can teach of lead this together and I can teach you how to do that and so really calling you how to do that and so really calling you how to do that and so really calling people into a life more than just people into a life more than just people into a life more than just consumer Christianity and getting in the consumer Christianity and getting in the consumer Christianity and getting in the game so to speak and then having a model game so to speak and then having a model game so to speak and then having a model by which apprenticeship looks like and by which apprenticeship looks like and by which apprenticeship looks like and apprentice is a new concept but

apprentice is a new concept but apprentice is a new concept but everybody knows what's our model here everybody knows what's our model here everybody knows what's our model here what are the steps that we do here and what are the steps that we do here and what are the steps that we do here and it can be as simple as simply saying it can be as simple as simply saying it can be as simple as simply saying things like you know it's going to be I things like you know it's going to be I things like you know it's going to be I do you watch then the next phase is do you watch then the next phase is do you watch then the next phase is going to be I do you help the next phase going to be I do you help the next phase going to be I do you help the next phase will be you're going to do it and I'm will be you're going to do it and I'm will be you're going to do it and I'm gonna help and then you're going to do gonna help and then you're going to do gonna help and then you're going to do it I'm going to watch and now I've it I'm going to watch and now I've it I'm going to watch and now I've apprenticed them into all the things apprenticed them into all the things apprenticed them into all the things necessary to lead in that level and so necessary to lead in that level and so necessary to lead in that level and so apprentices and that apprenticeship apprentices and that apprenticeship apprentices and that apprenticeship model and calling people into that with model and calling people into that with model and calling people into that with I see new ones are critical and have a I see new ones are critical and have a I see new ones are critical and have a great leadership development culture in great leadership development culture in great leadership development culture in your church help me understand this so I your church help me understand this so I your church help me understand this so I saw I I see that in so many churches saw I I see that in so many churches saw I I see that in so many churches where you know apprentices core really where you know apprentices core really where you know apprentices core really to how they're going to you know impact to how they're going to you know impact to how they're going to you know impact their culture there's this interesting i their culture there's this interesting i their culture there's this interesting i would say conundrum in a lot of churches would say conundrum in a lot of churches would say conundrum in a lot of churches where you know the the senior leader the where you know the the senior leader the where you know the the senior leader the person that's leading the organization person that's leading the organization person that's leading the organization senior pastor lead pastor or whatever senior pastor lead pastor or whatever senior pastor lead pastor or whatever core to their function typically not all core to their function typically not all core to their function typically not all the time but a lot of times quarter the time but a lot of times quarter the time but a lot of times quarter their function is like a teaching their function is like a teaching their function is like a teaching experience where there and a lot of experience where there and a lot of experience where there and a lot of times they're the primary communicator times they're the primary communicator times they're the primary communicator for you know maybe 30 weeks a year you for you know maybe 30 weeks a year you for you know maybe 30 weeks a year you know the vast majority and there seems know the vast majority and there seems know the vast majority and there seems to to to be a lack or a harder to get that be a lack or a harder to get that be a lack or a harder to get that apprentice in going with that particular apprentice in going with that particular apprentice in going with that particular piece of what what so many growing piece of what what so many growing piece of what what so many growing churches are you know trying to do churches are you know trying to do churches are you know trying to do obviously this pushes a bit of the obviously this pushes a bit of the obviously this pushes a bit of the succession issue which is a bit of that succession issue which is a bit of that succession issue which is a bit of that conversation how our church is how our conversation how our church is how our conversation how our church is how our churches that are able to develop an

churches that are able to develop an churches that are able to develop an apprentice in culture how are the senior apprentice in culture how are the senior apprentice in culture how are the senior leaders in that able to articulate that leaders in that able to articulate that leaders in that able to articulate that in a way when maybe their core function in a way when maybe their core function in a way when maybe their core function teach us they're not doing that in teach us they're not doing that in teach us they're not doing that in that's an excellent an excellent that's an excellent an excellent that's an excellent an excellent question a very excellent question and question a very excellent question and question a very excellent question and what we've discovered is sort of the what we've discovered is sort of the what we've discovered is sort of the next principle is that somebody on the next principle is that somebody on the next principle is that somebody on the senior team has to wake up every day senior team has to wake up every day senior team has to wake up every day thinking about apprenticing and thinking about apprenticing and thinking about apprenticing and developing that apprentice thing and developing that apprentice thing and developing that apprentice thing and leadership development culture so the leadership development culture so the leadership development culture so the high performing churches that are larger high performing churches that are larger high performing churches that are larger that can afford to have now someone on that can afford to have now someone on that can afford to have now someone on their lead team that's in charge of their lead team that's in charge of their lead team that's in charge of leadership development across everything leadership development across everything leadership development across everything that they do and I would argue that a that they do and I would argue that a that they do and I would argue that a larger church needs somebody at least larger church needs somebody at least larger church needs somebody at least seventy percent of their job is just seventy percent of their job is just seventy percent of their job is just developing that throughout the whole developing that throughout the whole developing that throughout the whole organization now the interesting thing organization now the interesting thing organization now the interesting thing that I've observed is people staff to that I've observed is people staff to that I've observed is people staff to what's important right people staff to what's important right people staff to what's important right people staff to what's important and so for the senior what's important and so for the senior what's important and so for the senior leader even though his job may be leader even though his job may be leader even though his job may be primarily communication or the executive primarily communication or the executive primarily communication or the executive pastor it's sort of managing the pastor it's sort of managing the pastor it's sort of managing the craziness of making everything happen if craziness of making everything happen if craziness of making everything happen if they realize that leadership development they realize that leadership development they realize that leadership development is critical to them accomplishing their is critical to them accomplishing their is critical to them accomplishing their vision they will staff to it hmmm and it vision they will staff to it hmmm and it vision they will staff to it hmmm and it doesn't always need to be a full-time doesn't always need to be a full-time doesn't always need to be a full-time person but somebody has to wake every person but somebody has to wake every person but somebody has to wake every day reminding everybody you know as you day reminding everybody you know as you day reminding everybody you know as you think about strategic planning for a think about strategic planning for a think about strategic planning for a church we plan how much money is it church we plan how much money is it church we plan how much money is it going to take how many strategies were going to take how many strategies were going to take how many strategies were going to but very seldom do we think going to but very seldom do we think going to but very seldom do we think about how many leaders are we going to about how many leaders are we going to about how many leaders are we going to need to get that vision done and whose need to get that vision done and whose need to get that vision done and whose task to make sure that we stay on point task to make sure that we stay on point task to make sure that we stay on point on getting that piece of the plan done on getting that piece of the plan done on getting that piece of the plan done and that's what excellent churches do

and that's what excellent churches do and that's what excellent churches do because as we all know sunday comes because as we all know sunday comes because as we all know sunday comes along with an alarming frequency and the along with an alarming frequency and the along with an alarming frequency and the scream of just getting sunday done and scream of just getting sunday done and scream of just getting sunday done and you got to have somebody working with us you got to have somebody working with us you got to have somebody working with us it's a thing the analogy that I use it's a thing the analogy that I use it's a thing the analogy that I use sometimes is a great major league sometimes is a great major league sometimes is a great major league baseball team and we're and they have baseball team and we're and they have baseball team and we're and they have rookie ball they have single a ball rookie ball they have single a ball rookie ball they have single a ball double a ball triple-a ball and they double a ball triple-a ball and they double a ball triple-a ball and they have somebody who's have somebody who's have somebody who's charge of the farm system right and so charge of the farm system right and so charge of the farm system right and so as the church that develops the mindset as the church that develops the mindset as the church that develops the mindset is as we're developing leaders through is as we're developing leaders through is as we're developing leaders through all the levels of our pipeline we got to all the levels of our pipeline we got to all the levels of our pipeline we got to have somebody keeping their eye on that have somebody keeping their eye on that have somebody keeping their eye on that ball cool chief time for maybe one more ball cool chief time for maybe one more ball cool chief time for maybe one more of the ten before we keep yeah we have of the ten before we keep yeah we have of the ten before we keep yeah we have the other thing that I would say is that the other thing that I would say is that the other thing that I would say is that people have really worked through their people have really worked through their people have really worked through their leadership pipeline now some people leadership pipeline now some people leadership pipeline now some people don't like that they some think it don't like that they some think it don't like that they some think it sounds mechanistic but it can be pathway sounds mechanistic but it can be pathway sounds mechanistic but it can be pathway whatever word you want to erase you so whatever word you want to erase you so whatever word you want to erase you so here's a question I usually ask pastors here's a question I usually ask pastors here's a question I usually ask pastors I say for those in your church that are I say for those in your church that are I say for those in your church that are leading a small group of leaders a group leading a small group of leaders a group leading a small group of leaders a group of 8 to 10 people what do they need to of 8 to 10 people what do they need to of 8 to 10 people what do they need to be great at in your model to be a great be great at in your model to be a great be great at in your model to be a great leader and most senior pastors give me leader and most senior pastors give me leader and most senior pastors give me kind of a blank stare like uh I don't kind of a blank stare like uh I don't kind of a blank stare like uh I don't know and I'm darkness he and I would know and I'm darkness he and I would know and I'm darkness he and I would argue that needs to be crystal clear argue that needs to be crystal clear argue that needs to be crystal clear that if I'm serving in the first that if I'm serving in the first that if I'm serving in the first impressions team am i'm leaving a small impressions team am i'm leaving a small impressions team am i'm leaving a small group I'm leading the youth ministry I'm group I'm leading the youth ministry I'm group I'm leading the youth ministry I'm an usher and anywhere I serve if I'm a an usher and anywhere I serve if I'm a an usher and anywhere I serve if I'm a leading a small group of people those leading a small group of people those leading a small group of people those key things that need to be true about me

key things that need to be true about me key things that need to be true about me need to be true across the whole church need to be true across the whole church need to be true across the whole church and I would argue that eighty percent of and I would argue that eighty percent of and I would argue that eighty percent of leadership is the same in a church leadership is the same in a church leadership is the same in a church twenty percent is just the context by twenty percent is just the context by twenty percent is just the context by which i do it and so I can't build which i do it and so I can't build which i do it and so I can't build leaders with the end in mind if I don't leaders with the end in mind if I don't leaders with the end in mind if I don't know what the end in mind is I can't know what the end in mind is I can't know what the end in mind is I can't build leaders unless I know what are the build leaders unless I know what are the build leaders unless I know what are the four or five key characteristics I'm four or five key characteristics I'm four or five key characteristics I'm trying to build into the people and then trying to build into the people and then trying to build into the people and then you think about the next level of you think about the next level of you think about the next level of leadership because typically church has leadership because typically church has leadership because typically church has four or five levels of leadership the four or five levels of leadership the four or five levels of leadership the second letters who's giving coaching second letters who's giving coaching second letters who's giving coaching leadership to those small group leaders leadership to those small group leaders leadership to those small group leaders and what do they need to be great at and and what do they need to be great at and and what do they need to be great at and again the blank stare but for a church again the blank stare but for a church again the blank stare but for a church to actually work through every level of to actually work through every level of to actually work through every level of leadership all the way up to the lead leadership all the way up to the lead leadership all the way up to the lead team of what are the four or five things team of what are the four or five things team of what are the four or five things they need to be really great at a church they need to be really great at a church they need to be really great at a church cannot build with the end in mind so cannot build with the end in mind so cannot build with the end in mind so church is doing a great job have done church is doing a great job have done church is doing a great job have done the hard work of staff alignment across the hard work of staff alignment across the hard work of staff alignment across departments that we're all building departments that we're all building departments that we're all building leaders that have the same kind of end leaders that have the same kind of end leaders that have the same kind of end in mind they may do different functions in mind they may do different functions in mind they may do different functions in terms of where they serve but what in terms of where they serve but what in terms of where they serve but what they're great at is the same yeah that's they're great at is the same yeah that's they're great at is the same yeah that's I think that's a huge insight I can I think that's a huge insight I can I think that's a huge insight I can that's it is a struggle in the churches that's it is a struggle in the churches that's it is a struggle in the churches i've served in where I think we get as a i've served in where I think we get as a i've served in where I think we get as a church begins to grow church begins to grow church begins to grow it's you can become siloed pretty it's you can become siloed pretty it's you can become siloed pretty quickly and you end up having almost quickly and you end up having almost quickly and you end up having almost competing leadership development competing leadership development competing leadership development strategies across them so you know the strategies across them so you know the strategies across them so you know the family ministry they're developing a family ministry they're developing a family ministry they're developing a certain type of leader you know you know certain type of leader you know you know certain type of leader you know you know maybe the small groups people they're maybe the small groups people they're maybe the small groups people they're developing a certain kind you know the developing a certain kind you know the developing a certain kind you know the the people that work about the weekends the people that work about the weekends the people that work about the weekends while they're just worried about the while they're just worried about the while they're just worried about the weekends so how how have church has been

weekends so how how have church has been weekends so how how have church has been able to transition out of those silos to able to transition out of those silos to able to transition out of those silos to saying how do we kind of all agree saying how do we kind of all agree saying how do we kind of all agree together on what kind of leaders were together on what kind of leaders were together on what kind of leaders were trying to develop well that's one of the trying to develop well that's one of the trying to develop well that's one of the key roles of the person that's in charge key roles of the person that's in charge key roles of the person that's in charge of leadership develop for a whole church of leadership develop for a whole church of leadership develop for a whole church it's it's leading the alignment process it's it's leading the alignment process it's it's leading the alignment process so that everybody's on the same page and so that everybody's on the same page and so that everybody's on the same page and so that i could let a little story i'm so that i could let a little story i'm so that i could let a little story i'm Gateway Church in Dallas I was in one of Gateway Church in Dallas I was in one of Gateway Church in Dallas I was in one of our groups and they talked about one of our groups and they talked about one of our groups and they talked about one of their problems when they got involved their problems when they got involved their problems when they got involved was if I served in the first impression was if I served in the first impression was if I served in the first impression team because they had their own team because they had their own team because they had their own leadership development then I want to go leadership development then I want to go leadership development then I want to go children this children's ministry I to children this children's ministry I to children this children's ministry I to go start at ground level again and do go start at ground level again and do go start at ground level again and do all the training from the beginning all the training from the beginning all the training from the beginning because the training everybody had their because the training everybody had their because the training everybody had their own training just like you said and once own training just like you said and once own training just like you said and once they went through this they began to see they went through this they began to see they went through this they began to see what what is one of our training across what what is one of our training across what what is one of our training across all of our different ministries is all of our different ministries is all of our different ministries is actually the same why are we not actually the same why are we not actually the same why are we not training leaders that eighty percent of training leaders that eighty percent of training leaders that eighty percent of their training is the same the twenty their training is the same the twenty their training is the same the twenty percent of the context so leading the percent of the context so leading the percent of the context so leading the process where you get the staff aligned process where you get the staff aligned process where you get the staff aligned to what's the what and the how and then to what's the what and the how and then to what's the what and the how and then what happens is we're now building with what happens is we're now building with what happens is we're now building with the on the end in mind but if you don't the on the end in mind but if you don't the on the end in mind but if you don't have somebody who works up every day have somebody who works up every day have somebody who works up every day wakes up every day kind of helping wakes up every day kind of helping wakes up every day kind of helping connect all those hoses and getting that connect all those hoses and getting that connect all those hoses and getting that process together it's really hard to process together it's really hard to process together it's really hard to ever get over that hump so now how does ever get over that hump so now how does ever get over that hump so now how does leadership develop network help with leadership develop network help with leadership develop network help with this obviously you've kind of intimated this obviously you've kind of intimated this obviously you've kind of intimated you've got you know these groups how you've got you know these groups how you've got you know these groups how else are you kind of helping try to lead else are you kind of helping try to lead else are you kind of helping try to lead the charge with churches on this the charge with churches on this the charge with churches on this conversation what what we do is when conversation what what we do is when conversation what what we do is when we're gathering them together we offer we're gathering them together we offer we're gathering them together we offer them this two-year collaborative group them this two-year collaborative group them this two-year collaborative group or they'll get to have an open source or they'll get to have an open source or they'll get to have an open source learning environment for 12 churches

learning environment for 12 churches learning environment for 12 churches that are working in this particular area that are working in this particular area that are working in this particular area of leadership develop in other words of leadership develop in other words of leadership develop in other words we've said this is a must-win battle for we've said this is a must-win battle for we've said this is a must-win battle for us we got to figure this thing out and us we got to figure this thing out and us we got to figure this thing out and so being in that environment where they so being in that environment where they so being in that environment where they can learn from one another's models can learn from one another's models can learn from one another's models because everybody comes into the process because everybody comes into the process because everybody comes into the process we're part of the things they've got we're part of the things they've got we're part of the things they've got going really well and some of them going really well and some of them going really well and some of them they're terrible at some they're just a they're terrible at some they're just a they're terrible at some they're just a bell bell bell clapping so they get to learn from one clapping so they get to learn from one clapping so they get to learn from one another and we make them come with their another and we make them come with their another and we make them come with their lead teams so that the decision makers lead teams so that the decision makers lead teams so that the decision makers can actually decide what needs to happen can actually decide what needs to happen can actually decide what needs to happen in part of the process we bring in some in part of the process we bring in some in part of the process we bring in some outside experts of other models that are outside experts of other models that are outside experts of other models that are doing really a great job and then we doing really a great job and then we doing really a great job and then we make them do a plan okay in the next six make them do a plan okay in the next six make them do a plan okay in the next six months til we're together what do we got months til we're together what do we got months til we're together what do we got to work on you get on that get this done to work on you get on that get this done to work on you get on that get this done and when they come back together in six and when they come back together in six and when they come back together in six months they actually have to report back months they actually have to report back months they actually have to report back in their progress and in between in their progress and in between in their progress and in between meetings I do coaching with each of the meetings I do coaching with each of the meetings I do coaching with each of the teams just to kind of make sure that teams just to kind of make sure that teams just to kind of make sure that they're moving things along so the end they're moving things along so the end they're moving things along so the end the idea at the end of the two years is the idea at the end of the two years is the idea at the end of the two years is that you've got everything done you need that you've got everything done you need that you've got everything done you need to get done to have a great flourishing to get done to have a great flourishing to get done to have a great flourishing leadership development process now we're leadership development process now we're leadership development process now we're switching things up a little bit we're switching things up a little bit we're switching things up a little bit we're starting something called the hub where starting something called the hub where starting something called the hub where we'll have four or five of our topics we'll have four or five of our topics we'll have four or five of our topics together at the same time we'll meet together at the same time we'll meet together at the same time we'll meet three times to get this done but that in three times to get this done but that in three times to get this done but that in essence is our process open source essence is our process open source essence is our process open source learning moving from implementation to learning moving from implementation to learning moving from implementation to impact very cool anything else I could impact very cool anything else I could impact very cool anything else I could share before we jump onto the lightning share before we jump onto the lightning share before we jump onto the lightning round let's go to the lightning round round let's go to the lightning round round let's go to the lightning round that's great hey one more thing let me that's great hey one more thing let me that's great hey one more thing let me get one more thing the one other thing get one more thing the one other thing get one more thing the one other thing that people do really well that do a that people do really well that do a that people do really well that do a great cultures they begin to get some great cultures they begin to get some great cultures they begin to get some measures around leadership development

measures around leadership development measures around leadership development what are the metrics that you use to what are the metrics that you use to what are the metrics that you use to make sure we're on track and a couple make sure we're on track and a couple make sure we're on track and a couple that I'll mention just real quickly that I'll mention just real quickly that I'll mention just real quickly before we move to the lightning round before we move to the lightning round before we move to the lightning round one is I always tell people think about one is I always tell people think about one is I always tell people think about what percentage of your current leaders what percentage of your current leaders what percentage of your current leaders have apprentices that will tell you have apprentices that will tell you have apprentices that will tell you where you're going to be in two years where you're going to be in two years where you're going to be in two years with the number of leaders you have and with the number of leaders you have and with the number of leaders you have and so if you can begin to measure that the so if you can begin to measure that the so if you can begin to measure that the second one is what percentage of your second one is what percentage of your second one is what percentage of your staff have you raised up for within is staff have you raised up for within is staff have you raised up for within is that's a lagging indicator that will that's a lagging indicator that will that's a lagging indicator that will tell you how well we've done in the past tell you how well we've done in the past tell you how well we've done in the past so measures and keeping the scoreboard so measures and keeping the scoreboard so measures and keeping the scoreboard or on the scorecard if there's something or on the scorecard if there's something or on the scorecard if there's something about leadership development that also about leadership development that also about leadership development that also really helps do a great job this is the really helps do a great job this is the really helps do a great job this is the uncen airy podcast stuff you wish they uncen airy podcast stuff you wish they uncen airy podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary we're going to jump taught in seminary we're going to jump taught in seminary we're going to jump into the lightning round super excited into the lightning round super excited into the lightning round super excited to have brent with us today with from to have brent with us today with from to have brent with us today with from Leadership Network it's been a great Leadership Network it's been a great Leadership Network it's been a great conversation today all around leadership conversation today all around leadership conversation today all around leadership development and how we you know we development and how we you know we development and how we you know we should think about that and things we should think about that and things we should think about that and things we should be wrestling through Brent what's should be wrestling through Brent what's should be wrestling through Brent what's an online resource you're using these an online resource you're using these an online resource you're using these days that's helping you in your ministry days that's helping you in your ministry days that's helping you in your ministry well very something simple gmail we can well very something simple gmail we can well very something simple gmail we can do online documents back and forth do online documents back and forth do online documents back and forth with all so all the gmail family of with all so all the gmail family of with all so all the gmail family of stuff has worked really well for us very stuff has worked really well for us very stuff has worked really well for us very cool what's a book you've read in the cool what's a book you've read in the cool what's a book you've read in the last six months that's impacting your last six months that's impacting your last six months that's impacting your thinking or ministry ah one book I'm thinking or ministry ah one book I'm thinking or ministry ah one book I'm reading right now is called the 20s reading right now is called the 20s reading right now is called the 20s church by heather stephens and we'll church by heather stephens and we'll church by heather stephens and we'll mancini it's it's a look at 20 churches mancini it's it's a look at 20 churches mancini it's it's a look at 20 churches across America that have done a really across America that have done a really across America that have done a really good job working with Millennials very good job working with Millennials very good job working with Millennials very cool what's another ministry that's cool what's another ministry that's cool what's another ministry that's inspiring you these days this one I'm inspiring you these days this one I'm inspiring you these days this one I'm leaning in on because a guy like you leaning in on because a guy like you leaning in on because a guy like you that's connected to so many churches

that's connected to so many churches that's connected to so many churches what's another church that you're what's another church that you're what's another church that you're looking at that's inspiring you well the looking at that's inspiring you well the looking at that's inspiring you well the the church that really inspires me a the church that really inspires me a the church that really inspires me a couple would be would be community couple would be would be community couple would be would be community Christian which I've mentioned from Christian which I've mentioned from Christian which I've mentioned from Chicago the other one I really love is Chicago the other one I really love is Chicago the other one I really love is Michael Fletcher's Church mad at church Michael Fletcher's Church mad at church Michael Fletcher's Church mad at church in fayetteville north carolina and a in fayetteville north carolina and a in fayetteville north carolina and a couple little interesting things that couple little interesting things that couple little interesting things that that's where delta force is out of them that's where delta force is out of them that's where delta force is out of them and they lose a thousand members of and they lose a thousand members of and they lose a thousand members of deployment every year and are still deployment every year and are still deployment every year and are still growing yes crazy and and so you know growing yes crazy and and so you know growing yes crazy and and so you know out of they have like a hundred people out of they have like a hundred people out of they have like a hundred people on payroll 99 of them been raised up on payroll 99 of them been raised up on payroll 99 of them been raised up from people that have come to faith and from people that have come to faith and from people that have come to faith and been grown in that context and so people been grown in that context and so people been grown in that context and so people that are actually doing and i love those that are actually doing and i love those that are actually doing and i love those guys yeah i had a chance to spend some guys yeah i had a chance to spend some guys yeah i had a chance to spend some time with them last year and add an time with them last year and add an time with them last year and add an event that Lou should never put on and event that Lou should never put on and event that Lou should never put on and fantastic leaders great church for sure fantastic leaders great church for sure fantastic leaders great church for sure highly recommend you follow those folks highly recommend you follow those folks highly recommend you follow those folks if you if you don't now this question if you if you don't now this question if you if you don't now this question here might be a tricky one but if you here might be a tricky one but if you here might be a tricky one but if you could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would you want to get that alive who would you want to get that alive who would you want to get that with and why that's a really good with and why that's a really good with and why that's a really good question not that's a hard one because question not that's a hard one because question not that's a hard one because there's so many really interesting there's so many really interesting there's so many really interesting people and I'm gonna go way out on on a people and I'm gonna go way out on on a people and I'm gonna go way out on on a limb yeah it's not getting really limb yeah it's not getting really limb yeah it's not getting really strange that probably no one has ever strange that probably no one has ever strange that probably no one has ever said to her and be Vladimir Putin oh said to her and be Vladimir Putin oh said to her and be Vladimir Putin oh nice and why is that that's that well nice and why is that that's that well nice and why is that that's that well first on the podcast for sure yes well i first on the podcast for sure yes well i first on the podcast for sure yes well i think that there's such an outlier in think that there's such an outlier in think that there's such an outlier in terms of world politics and how their terms of world politics and how their terms of world politics and how their worldview is compared to a Western worldview is compared to a Western worldview is compared to a Western democratic worldview I would just be democratic worldview I would just be democratic worldview I would just be fascinating to crawl into his mind and fascinating to crawl into his mind and fascinating to crawl into his mind and figure out why he does what he does figure out why he does what he does figure out why he does what he does interesting interesting that's very cool interesting interesting that's very cool interesting interesting that's very cool alright well I'm sure you know whether

alright well I'm sure you know whether alright well I'm sure you know whether you got a lot going on at Leadership you got a lot going on at Leadership you got a lot going on at Leadership Network trying to help all these Network trying to help all these Network trying to help all these churches dealing with tons of them at churches dealing with tons of them at churches dealing with tons of them at the same time when you just want to kind the same time when you just want to kind the same time when you just want to kind of relax kick back enjoy life a little of relax kick back enjoy life a little of relax kick back enjoy life a little bit what do you do for fun I am the bit what do you do for fun I am the bit what do you do for fun I am the president our local track and field club president our local track and field club president our local track and field club and and and been for ten years I love getting out on been for ten years I love getting out on been for ten years I love getting out on the track with kids and athletes and I the track with kids and athletes and I the track with kids and athletes and I run our our track meet in town every run our our track meet in town every run our our track meet in town every year that has about a thousand athletes year that has about a thousand athletes year that has about a thousand athletes at it and so there's something just fun at it and so there's something just fun at it and so there's something just fun about getting back and helping kids be about getting back and helping kids be about getting back and helping kids be the best they can be to throw as far as the best they can be to throw as far as the best they can be to throw as far as they can throw and run as fast as i can they can throw and run as fast as i can they can throw and run as fast as i can and jump as high as they can nice and jump as high as they can nice and jump as high as they can nice well-bred thanks so much for being on well-bred thanks so much for being on well-bred thanks so much for being on the show today if people want to get in the show today if people want to get in the show today if people want to get in touch with you or with leadership touch with you or with leadership touch with you or with leadership network how can they do that yeah my network how can they do that yeah my network how can they do that yeah my email feel free to contact me is Brent email feel free to contact me is Brent email feel free to contact me is Brent BR ENT dot Dolph oh good Italian name BR ENT dot Dolph oh good Italian name BR ENT dot Dolph oh good Italian name DOL f as in frank Oh at leave net org DOL f as in frank Oh at leave net org DOL f as in frank Oh at leave net org nice thanks so much have a great day nice thanks so much have a great day nice thanks so much have a great day thanks thank you for tuning in to this thanks thank you for tuning in to this thanks thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful re calm and we'll send you helpful re calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus training resources every week plus training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter add rich birch or through on twitter add rich birch or through on twitter add rich birch or through email rich at unsummon ericom don't email rich at unsummon ericom don't email rich at unsummon ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri com it this episode at unset Maneri com it this episode at unset Maneri com it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love

today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a episode drop by itunes and leave a episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary