Jason Berry Inside Adding 5 New Campuses in One Day

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses who the churches I've LED and campuses who the churches I've LED and campuses who the churches I've LED and half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every Church leader I'm convinced that every Church leader I'm convinced that every Church leader should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your next campus or Church Plant they're next campus or Church Plant they're next campus or Church Plant they're flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach Regal is the that you're trying to reach Regal is the that you're trying to reach Regal is the only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated team of full-time Consultants ready to team of full-time Consultants ready to team of full-time Consultants ready to help your church launch and succeed in a help your church launch and succeed in a help your church launch and succeed in a movie theater check out Regal Theater movie theater check out Regal Theater movie theater check out Regal Theater church.com for more information on church.com for more information on church.com for more information on locations your church could locations your church could locations your church could use l welcome to the unseminary podcast use l welcome to the unseminary podcast use l welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry are you looking for practical Ministry are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's unseminary this week's unseminary this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to podcast well hey everybody Welcome to podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich The Host host around these parts so glad The Host host around these parts so glad The Host host around these parts so glad that you decided to tune in today uh that you decided to tune in today uh that you decided to tune in today uh happy Thursday we know you've got a lot happy Thursday we know you've got a lot happy Thursday we know you've got a lot going on at your church and we're going on at your church and we're going on at your church and we're honored that you would pop us in your honored that you would pop us in your honored that you would pop us in your earbuds today that you would take some earbuds today that you would take some earbuds today that you would take some time out uh to lean in and uh you're time out uh to lean in and uh you're time out uh to lean in and uh you're going to be rewarded today we've got a going to be rewarded today we've got a going to be rewarded today we've got a great conversation lined up with Jason great conversation lined up with Jason great conversation lined up with Jason Barry from 12Stone Church you maybe have Barry from 12Stone Church you maybe have Barry from 12Stone Church you maybe have heard of 12Stone it's a fantastic Church heard of 12Stone it's a fantastic Church heard of 12Stone it's a fantastic Church in Georgia uh they currently have nine in Georgia uh they currently have nine in Georgia uh they currently have nine campuses I believe if I can keep track campuses I believe if I can keep track campuses I believe if I can keep track it seems like there's more happening all it seems like there's more happening all it seems like there's more happening all the time uh 12Stone is one of the the time uh 12Stone is one of the the time uh 12Stone is one of the fastest growing churches uh in the fastest growing churches uh in the fastest growing churches uh in the country lead guy it's by guy by name of

country lead guy it's by guy by name of country lead guy it's by guy by name of Kevin Meers a fantastic Church Jason Kevin Meers a fantastic Church Jason Kevin Meers a fantastic Church Jason welcome to the show today thank you so welcome to the show today thank you so welcome to the show today thank you so much man looking forward to hanging out much man looking forward to hanging out much man looking forward to hanging out for a little bit with you guys oh I for a little bit with you guys oh I for a little bit with you guys oh I really appreciate that why don't you really appreciate that why don't you really appreciate that why don't you tell us for two things give us kind of tell us for two things give us kind of tell us for two things give us kind of um you know a a slice of 12Stone kind of um you know a a slice of 12Stone kind of um you know a a slice of 12Stone kind of tell us a little bit of what would tell us a little bit of what would tell us a little bit of what would people expect if they came to of 12Stone people expect if they came to of 12Stone people expect if they came to of 12Stone and then tell us about your role there and then tell us about your role there and then tell us about your role there oh man 12 Stone's a really interesting oh man 12 Stone's a really interesting oh man 12 Stone's a really interesting place it it'd be like a lot of mega place it it'd be like a lot of mega place it it'd be like a lot of mega churches I suppose that you you'd go churches I suppose that you you'd go churches I suppose that you you'd go into uh we'd like to think we're into uh we'd like to think we're into uh we'd like to think we're friendly hopefully if you came you would friendly hopefully if you came you would friendly hopefully if you came you would experience that coffee is a big part of experience that coffee is a big part of experience that coffee is a big part of our culture we love uh to caffeinate our culture we love uh to caffeinate our culture we love uh to caffeinate people help them get uh get the energy people help them get uh get the energy people help them get uh get the energy they need for the day uh our our worship they need for the day uh our our worship they need for the day uh our our worship experience we spiritual intensity is one experience we spiritual intensity is one experience we spiritual intensity is one of our strands of our DNA and so worship of our strands of our DNA and so worship of our strands of our DNA and so worship isn't a throwaway or a warm-up Worship isn't a throwaway or a warm-up Worship isn't a throwaway or a warm-up Worship in the musical sense is a huge part of in the musical sense is a huge part of in the musical sense is a huge part of our culture and so we would hope you'd our culture and so we would hope you'd our culture and so we would hope you'd experience God in that and then uh experience God in that and then uh experience God in that and then uh teaching for us relevant is a term teaching for us relevant is a term teaching for us relevant is a term that's been thrown around a lot uh and that's been thrown around a lot uh and that's been thrown around a lot uh and so I I don't say that word chiefly is a so I I don't say that word chiefly is a so I I don't say that word chiefly is a throwaway relevant hey congratulations throwaway relevant hey congratulations throwaway relevant hey congratulations we're Hipp cool correct look at us uh we're Hipp cool correct look at us uh we're Hipp cool correct look at us uh but we do hope it actually applies to but we do hope it actually applies to but we do hope it actually applies to life we want we we actually believe life we want we we actually believe life we want we we actually believe Theology and real life actually connect Theology and real life actually connect Theology and real life actually connect in in a very real way and so the way we in in a very real way and so the way we in in a very real way and so the way we view God and the way we engage with God view God and the way we engage with God view God and the way we engage with God should change everything about our life should change everything about our life should change everything about our life and so our teaching is uh it's pretty and so our teaching is uh it's pretty and so our teaching is uh it's pretty practical pretty helpful and uh on the practical pretty helpful and uh on the practical pretty helpful and uh on the way out we we we a lot of times have fun way out we we we a lot of times have fun way out we we we a lot of times have fun in the lobbies and uh giveaways and fun in the lobbies and uh giveaways and fun in the lobbies and uh giveaways and fun sort of hangout sort of stuff we want to sort of hangout sort of stuff we want to sort of hangout sort of stuff we want to create environments where people can be create environments where people can be create environments where people can be a part of not just a service and an a part of not just a service and an a part of not just a service and an experience but be a part of a of a

experience but be a part of a of a experience but be a part of a of a family and so the the the tagline I use family and so the the the tagline I use family and so the the the tagline I use a lot and it's my own and so don't a lot and it's my own and so don't a lot and it's my own and so don't attribute it to Kevin he might might say attribute it to Kevin he might might say attribute it to Kevin he might might say no but I I use it internally is we want no but I I use it internally is we want no but I I use it internally is we want to be the largest local church on the to be the largest local church on the to be the largest local church on the planet uh we actually want to stay local planet uh we actually want to stay local planet uh we actually want to stay local and for us that means relationships and for us that means relationships and for us that means relationships really do matter we want people we want really do matter we want people we want really do matter we want people we want our campus pastors to know faces and our campus pastors to know faces and our campus pastors to know faces and names and we want staff to be connected names and we want staff to be connected names and we want staff to be connected to people and it's not just a a big to people and it's not just a a big to people and it's not just a a big Harrah on the weekends it's a it's Harrah on the weekends it's a it's Harrah on the weekends it's a it's actually a local church broken up into actually a local church broken up into actually a local church broken up into nine places so that's a slice of kind of nine places so that's a slice of kind of nine places so that's a slice of kind of what we do my role in that uh my title what we do my role in that uh my title what we do my role in that uh my title is now the associate executive Pastor uh is now the associate executive Pastor uh is now the associate executive Pastor uh what does that mean that's a great what does that mean that's a great what does that mean that's a great question it's a little bit different question it's a little bit different question it's a little bit different every day I have a similar title where every day I have a similar title where every day I have a similar title where it basically means hey we can shove it basically means hey we can shove it basically means hey we can shove anything on your role that we want you anything on your role that we want you anything on your role that we want you and I are Kindred Spirits man Kindred and I are Kindred Spirits man Kindred and I are Kindred Spirits man Kindred Spirits Spirits Spirits yeah oh yeah that's it so I work with yeah oh yeah that's it so I work with yeah oh yeah that's it so I work with Dan Ryland he's our executive Pastor Dan Ryland he's our executive Pastor Dan Ryland he's our executive Pastor he's been here for 13 years or so I'm he's been here for 13 years or so I'm he's been here for 13 years or so I'm biased but he's he's kind of the man in biased but he's he's kind of the man in biased but he's he's kind of the man in the executive Pastor world so I get to the executive Pastor world so I get to the executive Pastor world so I get to learn from the best um and my world is learn from the best um and my world is learn from the best um and my world is is leaning into the Ministries uh I I is leaning into the Ministries uh I I is leaning into the Ministries uh I I lead the ministry kind of design sort of lead the ministry kind of design sort of lead the ministry kind of design sort of side of what we do in Ministry uh from side of what we do in Ministry uh from side of what we do in Ministry uh from nextg to spiritual formation to uh nextg to spiritual formation to uh nextg to spiritual formation to uh creative arts and production and creative arts and production and creative arts and production and Logistics and so what do we actually do Logistics and so what do we actually do Logistics and so what do we actually do and why do we do it in ministries kind and why do we do it in ministries kind and why do we do it in ministries kind of in my in my side of the world so well of in my in my side of the world so well of in my in my side of the world so well for people that uh have been listening for people that uh have been listening for people that uh have been listening to the podcast for a while we actually to the podcast for a while we actually to the podcast for a while we actually had Dan on the podcast it would be just had Dan on the podcast it would be just had Dan on the podcast it would be just over a year ago now um and it was right over a year ago now um and it was right over a year ago now um and it was right as you know 12Stone was embarking on

as you know 12Stone was embarking on as you know 12Stone was embarking on what I thought was crazy which was to go what I thought was crazy which was to go what I thought was crazy which was to go uh to really add five campuses in one uh to really add five campuses in one uh to really add five campuses in one day um and from what I understand Jason day um and from what I understand Jason day um and from what I understand Jason you are the master man man behind that you are the master man man behind that you are the master man man behind that you know you obviously played an you know you obviously played an you know you obviously played an incredible critically important role uh incredible critically important role uh incredible critically important role uh in the midst of that so I'd love to kind in the midst of that so I'd love to kind in the midst of that so I'd love to kind of pull apart uh some of that you know of pull apart uh some of that you know of pull apart uh some of that you know some of your learnings uh kind of your some of your learnings uh kind of your some of your learnings uh kind of your part of that you know obviously you know part of that you know obviously you know part of that you know obviously you know incredible thing that's happened at incredible thing that's happened at incredible thing that's happened at 12Stone is you know you know incredible 12Stone is you know you know incredible 12Stone is you know you know incredible growth over these last number of years growth over these last number of years growth over these last number of years how what has that look like from the how what has that look like from the how what has that look like from the inside what are some of the lessons inside what are some of the lessons inside what are some of the lessons you're learning yeah I would I I'll take you're learning yeah I would I I'll take you're learning yeah I would I I'll take the Mastermind term and I'll push it up the Mastermind term and I'll push it up the Mastermind term and I'll push it up to Kevin Myers dreamer he's the to Kevin Myers dreamer he's the to Kevin Myers dreamer he's the Visionary and Dan is the genius uh but Visionary and Dan is the genius uh but Visionary and Dan is the genius uh but yeah it's been it's been an awesome yeah it's been it's been an awesome yeah it's been it's been an awesome awesome year and a half lots of learning awesome year and a half lots of learning awesome year and a half lots of learning um if you remember a year ago in the um if you remember a year ago in the um if you remember a year ago in the podcast we launched five and they're all podcast we launched five and they're all podcast we launched five and they're all portable and we'd only tried one portable and we'd only tried one portable and we'd only tried one portable Campus before and it went portable Campus before and it went portable Campus before and it went pretty well and so we said why not why pretty well and so we said why not why pretty well and so we said why not why not do five that makes sense that's next not do five that makes sense that's next not do five that makes sense that's next logical step yeah sure one to five sense logical step yeah sure one to five sense logical step yeah sure one to five sense have one kid that that works great let's have one kid that that works great let's have one kid that that works great let's just add five on the same day right uh just add five on the same day right uh just add five on the same day right uh it's it's been a really really cool year it's it's been a really really cool year it's it's been a really really cool year we've had we've got a chance to see a we've had we've got a chance to see a we've had we've got a chance to see a lot of cool growth uh numerically but lot of cool growth uh numerically but lot of cool growth uh numerically but also really in life life change we saw also really in life life change we saw also really in life life change we saw in the first year with those five close in the first year with those five close in the first year with those five close to 700 firsttime salvations in the five to 700 firsttime salvations in the five to 700 firsttime salvations in the five campuses which is just awesome um and as campuses which is just awesome um and as campuses which is just awesome um and as an organization as you can imagine that an organization as you can imagine that an organization as you can imagine that changed us in a big way we had four changed us in a big way we had four changed us in a big way we had four campuses previous and they were all in campuses previous and they were all in campuses previous and they were all in buildings we owned and we had 247 access buildings we owned and we had 247 access buildings we owned and we had 247 access to and then we we added five that were to and then we we added five that were to and then we we added five that were all portable and so we had to build a

all portable and so we had to build a all portable and so we had to build a lot of new systems a lot of new lot of new systems a lot of new lot of new systems a lot of new approaches to Ministry uh how do we approaches to Ministry uh how do we approaches to Ministry uh how do we approach uh one campus of 10,000 another approach uh one campus of 10,000 another approach uh one campus of 10,000 another Campus of 3,000 two campuses of a Campus of 3,000 two campuses of a Campus of 3,000 two campuses of a thousand and then five of five to six to thousand and then five of five to six to thousand and then five of five to six to 700 those are all different ecosystems 700 those are all different ecosystems 700 those are all different ecosystems and so we had a lot of experimenting and so we had a lot of experimenting and so we had a lot of experimenting this year of how do we actually do that this year of how do we actually do that this year of how do we actually do that and so that that was a lot of our year and so that that was a lot of our year and so that that was a lot of our year was honestly answering questions like was honestly answering questions like was honestly answering questions like that now over the years you know your that now over the years you know your that now over the years you know your church obviously has grown a lot there's church obviously has grown a lot there's church obviously has grown a lot there's a lot incredible amount of has happened a lot incredible amount of has happened a lot incredible amount of has happened you know one of the things I've you know you know one of the things I've you know you know one of the things I've you know I think I heard you reflect on that you I think I heard you reflect on that you I think I heard you reflect on that you know it kind of have um you know helping know it kind of have um you know helping know it kind of have um you know helping a church kind of make a transition from a church kind of make a transition from a church kind of make a transition from kind of organic leadership to kind of kind of organic leadership to kind of kind of organic leadership to kind of system or strategic leadership you know system or strategic leadership you know system or strategic leadership you know without really losing the heart of the without really losing the heart of the without really losing the heart of the soul in the midst of that I'd love to soul in the midst of that I'd love to soul in the midst of that I'd love to dive into that today I think that's an dive into that today I think that's an dive into that today I think that's an issue that I think a lot of church issue that I think a lot of church issue that I think a lot of church leaders are are looking for they're like leaders are are looking for they're like leaders are are looking for they're like gosh we we we want to grow uh we want to gosh we we we want to grow uh we want to gosh we we we want to grow uh we want to add leaders we want to add systems and add leaders we want to add systems and add leaders we want to add systems and structure because we know that gives us structure because we know that gives us structure because we know that gives us strength and the ability to reach more strength and the ability to reach more strength and the ability to reach more people but I don't want to become people but I don't want to become people but I don't want to become automaton I don't want to become make automaton I don't want to become make automaton I don't want to become make this robotic um I don't want this to be this robotic um I don't want this to be this robotic um I don't want this to be um you know to lose its heart and soul um you know to lose its heart and soul um you know to lose its heart and soul so let's what what are some of the so let's what what are some of the so let's what what are some of the things you've learned or some of the things you've learned or some of the things you've learned or some of the ways you lead through that process yeah ways you lead through that process yeah ways you lead through that process yeah I think we probably the best lesson that I think we probably the best lesson that I think we probably the best lesson that that I learned in this was by a mistake that I learned in this was by a mistake that I learned in this was by a mistake at the very beginning um which is at the very beginning um which is at the very beginning um which is hashtag leadership I suppose um early on hashtag leadership I suppose um early on hashtag leadership I suppose um early on as we looked at centralizing it was it as we looked at centralizing it was it as we looked at centralizing it was it was based on a need based on something was based on a need based on something was based on a need based on something that we looked around saying we have to that we looked around saying we have to that we looked around saying we have to figure out how to to keep some figure out how to to keep some figure out how to to keep some leadership autonomy but but to pull back

leadership autonomy but but to pull back leadership autonomy but but to pull back some uh some system autonomy there's some uh some system autonomy there's some uh some system autonomy there's things that we had campus pastors things that we had campus pastors things that we had campus pastors chasing that we were wasting their we chasing that we were wasting their we chasing that we were wasting their we call it the the five hours everyone's call it the the five hours everyone's call it the the five hours everyone's got five hours in their week that they got five hours in their week that they got five hours in their week that they should be able to use to respond to a should be able to use to respond to a should be able to use to respond to a god prompt Holy Spirit thing a random god prompt Holy Spirit thing a random god prompt Holy Spirit thing a random person that drops by a phone call that person that drops by a phone call that person that drops by a phone call that you know this this could suck my week you know this this could suck my week you know this this could suck my week and I could completely sink into this and I could completely sink into this and I could completely sink into this but we need the five hours and our but we need the five hours and our but we need the five hours and our campus pastors and our campus leaders campus pastors and our campus leaders campus pastors and our campus leaders were spending so much time just were spending so much time just were spending so much time just recreating the wheel and spinning their recreating the wheel and spinning their recreating the wheel and spinning their their 10% preference or their 10% their 10% preference or their 10% their 10% preference or their 10% leaning that we were losing that the leaning that we were losing that the leaning that we were losing that the magic isn't the right word in theology magic isn't the right word in theology magic isn't the right word in theology but you get the thought like the magic but you get the thought like the magic but you get the thought like the magic five hours to get take the next ground five hours to get take the next ground five hours to get take the next ground the next Soul the next person and so we the next Soul the next person and so we the next Soul the next person and so we we knew we had to to to bring things we knew we had to to to bring things we knew we had to to to bring things more centralized and probably at the more centralized and probably at the more centralized and probably at the beginning I would say it this way our beginning I would say it this way our beginning I would say it this way our highest value um in the centralization highest value um in the centralization highest value um in the centralization unknowingly was Conformity and leaders unknowingly was Conformity and leaders unknowingly was Conformity and leaders hate Conformity the thought of conform hate Conformity the thought of conform hate Conformity the thought of conform here's the mold let me squish you into here's the mold let me squish you into here's the mold let me squish you into the mold and we actually hire leaders the mold and we actually hire leaders the mold and we actually hire leaders like we we we want type driven like we we we want type driven like we we we want type driven entrepreneurial guys and the thought of entrepreneurial guys and the thought of entrepreneurial guys and the thought of Conformity to an entrepreneur is like Conformity to an entrepreneur is like Conformity to an entrepreneur is like death right and unknowingly we began to death right and unknowingly we began to death right and unknowingly we began to build fences of Conformity here's where build fences of Conformity here's where build fences of Conformity here's where you have to stay in inside of and the you have to stay in inside of and the you have to stay in inside of and the guys their maturity was so high they guys their maturity was so high they guys their maturity was so high they didn't Revolt but we watched some of the didn't Revolt but we watched some of the didn't Revolt but we watched some of the life being sucked out of the life being sucked out of the life being sucked out of the organization and so we shifted the value organization and so we shifted the value organization and so we shifted the value from Conformity to Unity um and unity is from Conformity to Unity um and unity is from Conformity to Unity um and unity is is just a better truer higher value the

is just a better truer higher value the is just a better truer higher value the goal is not that we Stamp Out the next goal is not that we Stamp Out the next goal is not that we Stamp Out the next license plate and call it a campus but license plate and call it a campus but license plate and call it a campus but the goal would be that we're one that the goal would be that we're one that the goal would be that we're one that we're one team chasing one thing and and we're one team chasing one thing and and we're one team chasing one thing and and uh Unity is is less of a fence it's more uh Unity is is less of a fence it's more uh Unity is is less of a fence it's more of a guardrail it's guys here's the of a guardrail it's guys here's the of a guardrail it's guys here's the edges we don't want you to fall off of edges we don't want you to fall off of edges we don't want you to fall off of and here's why but inside of that guard and here's why but inside of that guard and here's why but inside of that guard rail lead like crazy give us new rail lead like crazy give us new rail lead like crazy give us new feedback and ideate new ideas and and feedback and ideate new ideas and and feedback and ideate new ideas and and innovate and pass the Innovation up so innovate and pass the Innovation up so innovate and pass the Innovation up so we can help everybody uh in in the best we can help everybody uh in in the best we can help everybody uh in in the best practices and the best ways to do things practices and the best ways to do things practices and the best ways to do things and so that for us it seems like a small and so that for us it seems like a small and so that for us it seems like a small change and it might be a 2% shift and change and it might be a 2% shift and change and it might be a 2% shift and it's a 5149 type of thing where it's 51% it's a 5149 type of thing where it's 51% it's a 5149 type of thing where it's 51% Unity over Conformity and that really Unity over Conformity and that really Unity over Conformity and that really changed the game for our our campus changed the game for our our campus changed the game for our our campus pastors and our guys that they they pastors and our guys that they they pastors and our guys that they they didn't feel like we were trying to didn't feel like we were trying to didn't feel like we were trying to create robots we were trying to free create robots we were trying to free create robots we were trying to free them to lead and do the things that only them to lead and do the things that only them to lead and do the things that only they can do locally which allow us to be they can do locally which allow us to be they can do locally which allow us to be what we hope to be someday the largest what we hope to be someday the largest what we hope to be someday the largest local church on the planet we need that local church on the planet we need that local church on the planet we need that kind of thinking and so that's a that's kind of thinking and so that's a that's kind of thinking and so that's a that's a 30,000 foot kind of value sort of a 30,000 foot kind of value sort of a 30,000 foot kind of value sort of approach to that no that's very good you approach to that no that's very good you approach to that no that's very good you know I I know um you know in the past know I I know um you know in the past know I I know um you know in the past I've said in other context I'm you know I've said in other context I'm you know I've said in other context I'm you know it doesn't take a great leader to get 10 it doesn't take a great leader to get 10 it doesn't take a great leader to get 10 leaders in the room and say okay leaders in the room and say okay leaders in the room and say okay everybody think something different everybody think something different everybody think something different that's what leaders do right what it that's what leaders do right what it that's what leaders do right what it does it does take a great leader to get does it does take a great leader to get does it does take a great leader to get 10 leaders legitimate leaders in the 10 leaders legitimate leaders in the 10 leaders legitimate leaders in the world and say we're going to think about world and say we're going to think about world and say we're going to think about these things together let's focus on these things together let's focus on these things together let's focus on these things together how do we kind of these things together how do we kind of these things together how do we kind of put our Collective energy on these put our Collective energy on these put our Collective energy on these things that's a totally different kind things that's a totally different kind things that's a totally different kind of leader that's a in fact that's a

of leader that's a in fact that's a of leader that's a in fact that's a higher form of leadership than just like higher form of leadership than just like higher form of leadership than just like hey everybody Do Your Own Thing um now hey everybody Do Your Own Thing um now hey everybody Do Your Own Thing um now kind of as you've wrestled through that kind of as you've wrestled through that kind of as you've wrestled through that as you've tried to say hey let's focus as you've tried to say hey let's focus as you've tried to say hey let's focus on Unity um rather than fences or you on Unity um rather than fences or you on Unity um rather than fences or you know if you do this we're going to give know if you do this we're going to give know if you do this we're going to give you send you electric shock therapy um you send you electric shock therapy um you send you electric shock therapy um if you step out of line um what are some if you step out of line um what are some if you step out of line um what are some of those kind of how how you how do you of those kind of how how you how do you of those kind of how how you how do you unpack that with your people yeah uh unpack that with your people yeah uh unpack that with your people yeah uh honestly when we're making a change um honestly when we're making a change um honestly when we're making a change um or we're making a shift we tend to allow or we're making a shift we tend to allow or we're making a shift we tend to allow our leaders to sit in the the our leaders to sit in the the our leaders to sit in the the uncomfortableness not a great term but uncomfortableness not a great term but uncomfortableness not a great term but the the thoughts they the the uncomfort the the thoughts they the the uncomfort the the thoughts they the the uncomfort of the old system for long enough for of the old system for long enough for of the old system for long enough for them to feel the pain of it so that when them to feel the pain of it so that when them to feel the pain of it so that when we make a hard shift or a hard turn we make a hard shift or a hard turn we make a hard shift or a hard turn they're almost saying thank you now they're almost saying thank you now they're almost saying thank you now where 6 months ago they would have said where 6 months ago they would have said where 6 months ago they would have said you've got to be kidding me you're you've got to be kidding me you're you've got to be kidding me you're killing me you're taking away this is my killing me you're taking away this is my killing me you're taking away this is my firstborn I love that and if you let firstborn I love that and if you let firstborn I love that and if you let them sit in that long enough and allow them sit in that long enough and allow them sit in that long enough and allow them to experience and that's a that's a them to experience and that's a that's a them to experience and that's a that's a tension obviously because we don't want tension obviously because we don't want tension obviously because we don't want to stall the church to allow them to to stall the church to allow them to to stall the church to allow them to feel the pain but there's just an edge feel the pain but there's just an edge feel the pain but there's just an edge leaders always feel pain a little bit leaders always feel pain a little bit leaders always feel pain a little bit earlier than the people and so if we can earlier than the people and so if we can earlier than the people and so if we can let the pain uh or the uncomfort of the let the pain uh or the uncomfort of the let the pain uh or the uncomfort of the old system sit just long enough that old system sit just long enough that old system sit just long enough that they're going all right we got to make a they're going all right we got to make a they're going all right we got to make a change we've already been building that change we've already been building that change we've already been building that change underneath the surface and change underneath the surface and change underneath the surface and quietly for the last three months so quietly for the last three months so quietly for the last three months so that when they when they feel that we go that when they when they feel that we go that when they when they feel that we go in and go guys we all feel this pain in and go guys we all feel this pain in and go guys we all feel this pain here's what we're going to go do we're here's what we're going to go do we're here's what we're going to go do we're going to go throw this switch and this going to go throw this switch and this going to go throw this switch and this is going to allow us to go do this it's is going to allow us to go do this it's is going to allow us to go do this it's going to free you up to do that and that going to free you up to do that and that going to free you up to do that and that is one of the best I learned that from is one of the best I learned that from is one of the best I learned that from the master of of Kevin and Dan they they the master of of Kevin and Dan they they the master of of Kevin and Dan they they just do that so well and that's allowed

just do that so well and that's allowed just do that so well and that's allowed us over the past almost 30 years and I'm us over the past almost 30 years and I'm us over the past almost 30 years and I'm only 34 so I'll say the collective us only 34 so I'll say the collective us only 34 so I'll say the collective us yes to reorg and reshift probably 15 yes to reorg and reshift probably 15 yes to reorg and reshift probably 15 times in the last 30 years and that's times in the last 30 years and that's times in the last 30 years and that's kind of their strategy to do that and kind of their strategy to do that and kind of their strategy to do that and then when we do make that shift we then when we do make that shift we then when we do make that shift we invite the staff into a feedback loop of invite the staff into a feedback loop of invite the staff into a feedback loop of we're going to we're going to bring the we're going to we're going to bring the we're going to we're going to bring the the initial change we want you to sit in the initial change we want you to sit in the initial change we want you to sit in it and Lead through it for a season and it and Lead through it for a season and it and Lead through it for a season and we want feedback along the way so that we want feedback along the way so that we want feedback along the way so that we can continue to innovate and make we can continue to innovate and make we can continue to innovate and make things better and the next layer and the things better and the next layer and the things better and the next layer and the next layer and so we we're we're a we next layer and so we we're we're a we next layer and so we we're we're a we have an or chart and there's layers and have an or chart and there's layers and have an or chart and there's layers and there's stuff because you have to to there's stuff because you have to to there's stuff because you have to to exist but we we're uh we actually invite exist but we we're uh we actually invite exist but we we're uh we actually invite feedback feedback is not a feedback can feedback feedback is not a feedback can feedback feedback is not a feedback can either be can be thrown at you or you either be can be thrown at you or you either be can be thrown at you or you can request it and we're we're a church can request it and we're we're a church can request it and we're we're a church that actually requests feedback please that actually requests feedback please that actually requests feedback please give feedback we don't want to sit in give feedback we don't want to sit in give feedback we don't want to sit in mediocre if something's can be can be mediocre if something's can be can be mediocre if something's can be can be done better or shifted we want that done better or shifted we want that done better or shifted we want that feedback and so we allow we allow that feedback and so we allow we allow that feedback and so we allow we allow that to happen and then just on that for for to happen and then just on that for for to happen and then just on that for for a second how are you um so let's take a a second how are you um so let's take a a second how are you um so let's take a scenario like this you're you're looking scenario like this you're you're looking scenario like this you're you're looking to centralize a part of what you're to centralize a part of what you're to centralize a part of what you're doing you know there's a system that at doing you know there's a system that at doing you know there's a system that at one point we were saying let's say you one point we were saying let's say you one point we were saying let's say you know all the campuses you just kind of know all the campuses you just kind of know all the campuses you just kind of figure out what you want to do on that figure out what you want to do on that figure out what you want to do on that but now we think you know this is but now we think you know this is but now we think you know this is probably the moment we felt the pain of probably the moment we felt the pain of probably the moment we felt the pain of that we you know let's let's centralize that we you know let's let's centralize that we you know let's let's centralize it um we're going to talk to our it um we're going to talk to our it um we're going to talk to our campuses about that we're going to gain campuses about that we're going to gain campuses about that we're going to gain their feedback we want to ask for you their feedback we want to ask for you their feedback we want to ask for you know to their you know invite them to know to their you know invite them to know to their you know invite them to help you know make the decision around help you know make the decision around help you know make the decision around that to tell you you know hey this is that to tell you you know hey this is that to tell you you know hey this is what we're thinking but let's say or or what we're thinking but let's say or or what we're thinking but let's say or or help me understand how do you take that help me understand how do you take that help me understand how do you take that feedback listen to that feedback um but

feedback listen to that feedback um but feedback listen to that feedback um but you know maybe you end up going in a you know maybe you end up going in a you know maybe you end up going in a slightly different direction maybe you slightly different direction maybe you slightly different direction maybe you end up saying you know we're not going end up saying you know we're not going end up saying you know we're not going to necessarily go exactly the way that to necessarily go exactly the way that to necessarily go exactly the way that our campus teams want to go in this our campus teams want to go in this our campus teams want to go in this thing how have you led through that thing how have you led through that thing how have you led through that process what has that looked like for process what has that looked like for process what has that looked like for you yeah that's that's the real world of you yeah that's that's the real world of you yeah that's that's the real world of leadership all this stuff is great on leadership all this stuff is great on leadership all this stuff is great on paper until uh until a campus or a and paper until uh until a campus or a and paper until uh until a campus or a and individual person would push back the individual person would push back the individual person would push back the way we look at it from a measuring way we look at it from a measuring way we look at it from a measuring standpoint is if there's if there's nine standpoint is if there's if there's nine standpoint is if there's if there's nine campuses that are all struggling in campuses that are all struggling in campuses that are all struggling in something it's probably us it's the it's something it's probably us it's the it's something it's probably us it's the it's the centralized side right if eight are the centralized side right if eight are the centralized side right if eight are killing it and love it it's great and killing it and love it it's great and killing it and love it it's great and there's one guy that seems to be there's one guy that seems to be there's one guy that seems to be drifting or pushing against it or saying drifting or pushing against it or saying drifting or pushing against it or saying it's not working it's probably it's it's not working it's probably it's it's not working it's probably it's probably a local leadership issue now probably a local leadership issue now probably a local leadership issue now we're developmental culture so guys have we're developmental culture so guys have we're developmental culture so guys have very little fear that a mistake equals very little fear that a mistake equals very little fear that a mistake equals being fired because right we just don't being fired because right we just don't being fired because right we just don't we don't work that way do we develop we don't work that way do we develop we don't work that way do we develop guys and so what that does if there's guys and so what that does if there's guys and so what that does if there's one or two campuses that are pushing one or two campuses that are pushing one or two campuses that are pushing back against something that the other back against something that the other back against something that the other seven are saying it's working for me I seven are saying it's working for me I seven are saying it's working for me I kind of I actually kind of like this it kind of I actually kind of like this it kind of I actually kind of like this it gives us an opportunity to go in there gives us an opportunity to go in there gives us an opportunity to go in there and actually sit down and have a and actually sit down and have a and actually sit down and have a leadership conversation what is really leadership conversation what is really leadership conversation what is really going on under the surface is this going on under the surface is this going on under the surface is this something where you're you you don't something where you're you you don't something where you're you you don't know how to lay something down that know how to lay something down that know how to lay something down that you're personally connected to is this a you're personally connected to is this a you're personally connected to is this a is this an arrogance issue is this an is this an arrogance issue is this an is this an arrogance issue is this an ignorance issue of you don't understand ignorance issue of you don't understand ignorance issue of you don't understand we didn't do a good job of communicating we didn't do a good job of communicating we didn't do a good job of communicating why we're doing this and we can go in why we're doing this and we can go in why we're doing this and we can go in there and help help lead that out so there and help help lead that out so there and help help lead that out so we've had many of those one-off we've had many of those one-off we've had many of those one-off conversations and we've also seen ideas conversations and we've also seen ideas conversations and we've also seen ideas we thought were going to be great and we thought were going to be great and we thought were going to be great and and eight of the nine just go guys this and eight of the nine just go guys this and eight of the nine just go guys this just a't going to work and then we have just a't going to work and then we have just a't going to work and then we have to own that and say hey that's our bad to own that and say hey that's our bad to own that and say hey that's our bad let us take it back to the drawing board

let us take it back to the drawing board let us take it back to the drawing board and come present you guys with a with a and come present you guys with a with a and come present you guys with a with a new approach so again that's another new approach so again that's another new approach so again that's another ethereal kind of thought but that's ethereal kind of thought but that's ethereal kind of thought but that's that's how we would approach that and that's how we would approach that and that's how we would approach that and every individual example is so different every individual example is so different every individual example is so different right and every campus pastor's got a right and every campus pastor's got a right and every campus pastor's got a different passion we got guys leaning different passion we got guys leaning different passion we got guys leaning towards the small group thing and they towards the small group thing and they towards the small group thing and they love that other guys love the creative love that other guys love the creative love that other guys love the creative and so every every campus Pastor has a and so every every campus Pastor has a and so every every campus Pastor has a different kind of bent in that way now different kind of bent in that way now different kind of bent in that way now in the midst of that how are in MST of in the midst of that how are in MST of in the midst of that how are in MST of these kind of changes or this kind of these kind of changes or this kind of these kind of changes or this kind of centralization process you're going centralization process you're going centralization process you're going through how are you communicating this through how are you communicating this through how are you communicating this change what is that you know looking change what is that you know looking change what is that you know looking like how are you you know letting you like how are you you know letting you like how are you you know letting you know kind of folks know what do the know kind of folks know what do the know kind of folks know what do the inside of that look like uh oh yeah inside of that look like uh oh yeah inside of that look like uh oh yeah we've sat down with all kinds of we've sat down with all kinds of we've sat down with all kinds of different groups and we Circle uh the different groups and we Circle uh the different groups and we Circle uh the concept is get the right people in the concept is get the right people in the concept is get the right people in the right room for the right topic and the right room for the right topic and the right room for the right topic and the right agenda and so we would gather uh right agenda and so we would gather uh right agenda and so we would gather uh the campus pastors would care about a the campus pastors would care about a the campus pastors would care about a very different part of this than all of very different part of this than all of very different part of this than all of the children's ministry leaders across the children's ministry leaders across the children's ministry leaders across the church or all of the spiritual small the church or all of the spiritual small the church or all of the spiritual small group type pastors and so we would group type pastors and so we would group type pastors and so we would gather the right group in the right room gather the right group in the right room gather the right group in the right room and honestly we'd walk through very and honestly we'd walk through very and honestly we'd walk through very similar to what I explained listen we've similar to what I explained listen we've similar to what I explained listen we've all felt this we all have we let's let's all felt this we all have we let's let's all felt this we all have we let's let's start what we share in common we all for start what we share in common we all for start what we share in common we all for small groups we all want to see more small groups we all want to see more small groups we all want to see more people get into spiritual community and people get into spiritual community and people get into spiritual community and we all want to see people take steps uh we all want to see people take steps uh we all want to see people take steps uh closer to God in their life and we all closer to God in their life and we all closer to God in their life and we all want the same thing we've watched this want the same thing we've watched this want the same thing we've watched this play out for the last two years and it's play out for the last two years and it's play out for the last two years and it's been great for a season but now as we been great for a season but now as we been great for a season but now as we sit here I think we can all agree we're sit here I think we can all agree we're sit here I think we can all agree we're kind of stuck we've hit a ceiling and if kind of stuck we've hit a ceiling and if kind of stuck we've hit a ceiling and if we don't go after what's next we're all we don't go after what's next we're all we don't go after what's next we're all stuck and at this point allowing them to stuck and at this point allowing them to stuck and at this point allowing them to sit in that pain they're all nodding sit in that pain they're all nodding sit in that pain they're all nodding along and so by the time you roll out along and so by the time you roll out along and so by the time you roll out and so guys here's what we believe is and so guys here's what we believe is and so guys here's what we believe is what the next season for us is and it's

what the next season for us is and it's what the next season for us is and it's casting Vision based on the stuff we all casting Vision based on the stuff we all casting Vision based on the stuff we all already agree on we want to see more already agree on we want to see more already agree on we want to see more people in groups more people here and people in groups more people here and people in groups more people here and then we give people opportunity in that then we give people opportunity in that then we give people opportunity in that meeting a ask questions let's dial this meeting a ask questions let's dial this meeting a ask questions let's dial this is not presentational it's it's is not presentational it's it's is not presentational it's it's conversational and then it's an open conversational and then it's an open conversational and then it's an open door policy as you as you leave you're door policy as you as you leave you're door policy as you as you leave you're going to have those of you who are going to have those of you who are going to have those of you who are processors you're going to have processors you're going to have processors you're going to have questions right my office is open let's questions right my office is open let's questions right my office is open let's come talk it through and you guys are come talk it through and you guys are come talk it through and you guys are going to have better ideas down the road going to have better ideas down the road going to have better ideas down the road than we have today but we have to start than we have today but we have to start than we have today but we have to start somewhere and here's where we have to somewhere and here's where we have to somewhere and here's where we have to start and let's lay the tracks and then start and let's lay the tracks and then start and let's lay the tracks and then you guys can help us decide which you guys can help us decide which you guys can help us decide which direction we start to lean as we move direction we start to lean as we move direction we start to lean as we move forward very cool um what about you know forward very cool um what about you know forward very cool um what about you know you know sometimes you talk about the you know sometimes you talk about the you know sometimes you talk about the reins you're holding tight to the reins reins you're holding tight to the reins reins you're holding tight to the reins loose to the reins is there um you know loose to the reins is there um you know loose to the reins is there um you know kind of reflection on that as you know kind of reflection on that as you know kind of reflection on that as you know over time do you are you super loose at over time do you are you super loose at over time do you are you super loose at the beginning kind of see it goes what the beginning kind of see it goes what the beginning kind of see it goes what does that look like for you yeah I think does that look like for you yeah I think does that look like for you yeah I think early on what we have to lean into is a early on what we have to lean into is a early on what we have to lean into is a little bit more of a hard line like guys little bit more of a hard line like guys little bit more of a hard line like guys here's where we're sticking and we've here's where we're sticking and we've here's where we're sticking and we've got if we change more than one variable got if we change more than one variable got if we change more than one variable it's hard to measure the the result you it's hard to measure the the result you it's hard to measure the the result you know if we change 17 things and give 17 know if we change 17 things and give 17 know if we change 17 things and give 17 different ways for this to happen if it different ways for this to happen if it different ways for this to happen if it doesn't work or if it absolutely wins doesn't work or if it absolutely wins doesn't work or if it absolutely wins incredibly what what caused that to win incredibly what what caused that to win incredibly what what caused that to win or lose it's hard to measure that so we or lose it's hard to measure that so we or lose it's hard to measure that so we try to keep it for the first season try to keep it for the first season try to keep it for the first season here's here's the guard rails we're here's here's the guard rails we're here's here's the guard rails we're going to live in and they're kind of going to live in and they're kind of going to live in and they're kind of tight and and then as we figure out yes tight and and then as we figure out yes tight and and then as we figure out yes this is working yes this is right we we this is working yes this is right we we this is working yes this is right we we slowly begin to loosen those those reins slowly begin to loosen those those reins slowly begin to loosen those those reins up to go okay now let's bring Innovation up to go okay now let's bring Innovation up to go okay now let's bring Innovation back when we make a when we flip a back when we make a when we flip a back when we make a when we flip a switch we just introduced massive switch we just introduced massive switch we just introduced massive Innovation and change to the church what

Innovation and change to the church what Innovation and change to the church what we don't want to do is add more than we don't want to do is add more than we don't want to do is add more than we've already just just put in the we've already just just put in the we've already just just put in the organization and so once we live in that organization and so once we live in that organization and so once we live in that for a little bit of time then we open up for a little bit of time then we open up for a little bit of time then we open up the rein of now let's re innovate now the rein of now let's re innovate now the rein of now let's re innovate now that we've all lived in it long enough that we've all lived in it long enough that we've all lived in it long enough and we've all proved we can submit to and we've all proved we can submit to and we've all proved we can submit to each other and one of our terms is m ual each other and one of our terms is m ual each other and one of our terms is m ual voluntary submission we both mutually voluntary submission we both mutually voluntary submission we both mutually voluntarily lay ourselves down for the voluntarily lay ourselves down for the voluntarily lay ourselves down for the other once we've proven we can do that other once we've proven we can do that other once we've proven we can do that then everything else is on the table to then everything else is on the table to then everything else is on the table to go and make better you have an example go and make better you have an example go and make better you have an example of kind of you know how an area where of kind of you know how an area where of kind of you know how an area where you've had to kind of hold firmly and you've had to kind of hold firmly and you've had to kind of hold firmly and then you know I've seen that kind of then you know I've seen that kind of then you know I've seen that kind of roll out I'll make it really practical roll out I'll make it really practical roll out I'll make it really practical um our worship pastors we hired five um our worship pastors we hired five um our worship pastors we hired five worship pastors to the five new campuses worship pastors to the five new campuses worship pastors to the five new campuses the four guys we had before had been the four guys we had before had been the four guys we had before had been here for years and they they known our here for years and they they known our here for years and they they known our culture they get us and we gave they had culture they get us and we gave they had culture they get us and we gave they had a good amount of freedom to go we we a good amount of freedom to go we we a good amount of freedom to go we we would deliver here's the worship set in would deliver here's the worship set in would deliver here's the worship set in the service for the weekend and they had the service for the weekend and they had the service for the weekend and they had a good amount of freedom to go this song a good amount of freedom to go this song a good amount of freedom to go this song just doesn't land in our context and man just doesn't land in our context and man just doesn't land in our context and man I I'm going to do an acoustic set this I I'm going to do an acoustic set this I I'm going to do an acoustic set this weekend because it our people was really weekend because it our people was really weekend because it our people was really respond well to that and we all kind of respond well to that and we all kind of respond well to that and we all kind of had to voluntarily for the first year of had to voluntarily for the first year of had to voluntarily for the first year of the nine campuses all say we're going to the nine campuses all say we're going to the nine campuses all say we're going to all do the same worship set almost all do the same worship set almost all do the same worship set almost without fail for 12 months straight and without fail for 12 months straight and without fail for 12 months straight and that was really tough for our four and that was really tough for our four and that was really tough for our four and it was a a huge gift for the new five it was a a huge gift for the new five it was a a huge gift for the new five because they didn't have the time to go because they didn't have the time to go because they didn't have the time to go and reinvent the wheel and so for that and reinvent the wheel and so for that and reinvent the wheel and so for that first year we locked in and for the first year we locked in and for the first year we locked in and for the first time in our history as a church first time in our history as a church first time in our history as a church nine campuses all doing the same three nine campuses all doing the same three nine campuses all doing the same three to five songs in the same order in the to five songs in the same order in the to five songs in the same order in the same way with similar prompts for a

same way with similar prompts for a same way with similar prompts for a whole year and just two months ago we whole year and just two months ago we whole year and just two months ago we started the conversation of guys first started the conversation of guys first started the conversation of guys first of all we're proud holy cow we're proud of all we're proud holy cow we're proud of all we're proud holy cow we're proud of you guys you guys showed maturity to of you guys you guys showed maturity to of you guys you guys showed maturity to a new level and now let's start the a new level and now let's start the a new level and now let's start the conversations of what does it look like conversations of what does it look like conversations of what does it look like for us to start giving the freedom back for us to start giving the freedom back for us to start giving the freedom back to say if this tune is not working in to say if this tune is not working in to say if this tune is not working in your context there's a more rural campus your context there's a more rural campus your context there's a more rural campus or a more a more uh City type camp we or a more a more uh City type camp we or a more a more uh City type camp we want to give the freedom to go man that want to give the freedom to go man that want to give the freedom to go man that Tech noish kind of opener just never Tech noish kind of opener just never Tech noish kind of opener just never lands for us okay let's we want to give lands for us okay let's we want to give lands for us okay let's we want to give that freedom back now that you that freedom back now that you that freedom back now that you understand the value of why we choose understand the value of why we choose understand the value of why we choose songs like we do and what we're trying songs like we do and what we're trying songs like we do and what we're trying to create we now can trust people to to create we now can trust people to to create we now can trust people to actually to make tweaks and changes and actually to make tweaks and changes and actually to make tweaks and changes and we want that as a part of our culture we want that as a part of our culture we want that as a part of our culture because leaders again don't want because leaders again don't want because leaders again don't want Conformity they want unity and so Conformity they want unity and so Conformity they want unity and so Conformity is not God in a worship set Conformity is not God in a worship set Conformity is not God in a worship set we want that to be effective and we want that to be effective and we want that to be effective and fruitful and we want to Steward the the fruitful and we want to Steward the the fruitful and we want to Steward the the people that God's given us really well people that God's given us really well people that God's given us really well so that's a really practical example of so that's a really practical example of so that's a really practical example of kind of tight Reigns and now starting to kind of tight Reigns and now starting to kind of tight Reigns and now starting to find that the pendulum back to the find that the pendulum back to the find that the pendulum back to the middle again very cool well how how much middle again very cool well how how much middle again very cool well how how much this you know would you say this kind of this you know would you say this kind of this you know would you say this kind of shift to a more centralized approach shift to a more centralized approach shift to a more centralized approach really is what enabled you to go from really is what enabled you to go from really is what enabled you to go from four to nine you know if if you were to four to nine you know if if you were to four to nine you know if if you were to think back how the first four were think back how the first four were think back how the first four were operating before you made that operating before you made that operating before you made that transition do you think you would have transition do you think you would have transition do you think you would have you know would there still be those five you know would there still be those five you know would there still be those five open today you know or would you be open today you know or would you be open today you know or would you be would the wheels have come flying off would the wheels have come flying off would the wheels have come flying off what do you think about that yeah that what do you think about that yeah that what do you think about that yeah that would have been really difficult uh the would have been really difficult uh the would have been really difficult uh the one of the reasons we do multi- sight is one of the reasons we do multi- sight is one of the reasons we do multi- sight is so that we don't have so that we don't have so that we don't have to rehire a new senior pastor and 18 new to rehire a new senior pastor and 18 new to rehire a new senior pastor and 18 new staff at a campus the purpose of this is staff at a campus the purpose of this is staff at a campus the purpose of this is to be more efficient more effective and

to be more efficient more effective and to be more efficient more effective and allow us to reach more people quicker we allow us to reach more people quicker we allow us to reach more people quicker we could have done it it would have just could have done it it would have just could have done it it would have just not been it wouldn't have felt like not been it wouldn't have felt like not been it wouldn't have felt like 12Stone at the new five and we'd have 12Stone at the new five and we'd have 12Stone at the new five and we'd have had to hire twice to three times the had to hire twice to three times the had to hire twice to three times the amount of staff right because the whole amount of staff right because the whole amount of staff right because the whole purpose is the centralized team delivers purpose is the centralized team delivers purpose is the centralized team delivers that so that they can do the things that that so that they can do the things that that so that they can do the things that only they can do locally the people in only they can do locally the people in only they can do locally the people in the seats don't care who came up with the seats don't care who came up with the seats don't care who came up with the worship set or who wrote The the worship set or who wrote The the worship set or who wrote The Children's curriculum they care that Children's curriculum they care that Children's curriculum they care that they know their Pastor they care their they know their Pastor they care their they know their Pastor they care their kids have been LED well and so we have kids have been LED well and so we have kids have been LED well and so we have to free them up to do that so if we to free them up to do that so if we to free them up to do that so if we wouldn't have centralized it would have wouldn't have centralized it would have wouldn't have centralized it would have cost us a Fortune of time of talent of cost us a Fortune of time of talent of cost us a Fortune of time of talent of Treasure of all that stuff to just do Treasure of all that stuff to just do Treasure of all that stuff to just do the same thing we did this year with a the same thing we did this year with a the same thing we did this year with a very lean staff who are really focused very lean staff who are really focused very lean staff who are really focused locally so I don't see how we could have locally so I don't see how we could have locally so I don't see how we could have pulled it off without bedum and Mayhem pulled it off without bedum and Mayhem pulled it off without bedum and Mayhem happening you know over the past 12 happening you know over the past 12 happening you know over the past 12 months so we really had to make that months so we really had to make that months so we really had to make that shift and are continuing to innovate shift and are continuing to innovate shift and are continuing to innovate what is that next layer of that shift what is that next layer of that shift what is that next layer of that shift look like so very cool anything else look like so very cool anything else look like so very cool anything else you'd like to share kind of before we you'd like to share kind of before we you'd like to share kind of before we move on uh to the rest of the episode move on uh to the rest of the episode move on uh to the rest of the episode yeah I think one of the unique things we yeah I think one of the unique things we yeah I think one of the unique things we bring is mvs mutual volunteer submission bring is mvs mutual volunteer submission bring is mvs mutual volunteer submission it's one of the things I think uh that it's one of the things I think uh that it's one of the things I think uh that we that we do uniquely well and it's LED we that we do uniquely well and it's LED we that we do uniquely well and it's LED from our senior pastor and Dan Rollin from our senior pastor and Dan Rollin from our senior pastor and Dan Rollin their relationship is something of the their relationship is something of the their relationship is something of the model for our church Kevin Myers could model for our church Kevin Myers could model for our church Kevin Myers could tell Dan to do jumping jacks until his tell Dan to do jumping jacks until his tell Dan to do jumping jacks until his face turns blue and technically he's the face turns blue and technically he's the face turns blue and technically he's the boss right he never takes that uh that boss right he never takes that uh that boss right he never takes that uh that privilege Dan Ryland could uh could push privilege Dan Ryland could uh could push privilege Dan Ryland could uh could push hard against the staff and say to Kevin hard against the staff and say to Kevin hard against the staff and say to Kevin the staff is this and you have to make the staff is this and you have to make the staff is this and you have to make this CH it's just incredible to watch

this CH it's just incredible to watch this CH it's just incredible to watch those two guys submit to each other those two guys submit to each other those two guys submit to each other right and to have a senior pastor in a right and to have a senior pastor in a right and to have a senior pastor in a room full of the entire staff look to to room full of the entire staff look to to room full of the entire staff look to to Dan our XP and say hey Dan would you Dan our XP and say hey Dan would you Dan our XP and say hey Dan would you make any tweaks on that and Dan live in make any tweaks on that and Dan live in make any tweaks on that and Dan live in the room is fully trusted he go Kevin I the room is fully trusted he go Kevin I the room is fully trusted he go Kevin I might might tweak that this way or that might might tweak that this way or that might might tweak that this way or that way and there's no they don't have to do way and there's no they don't have to do way and there's no they don't have to do that they mutually voluntarily submit to that they mutually voluntarily submit to that they mutually voluntarily submit to each other and that has leaked down into each other and that has leaked down into each other and that has leaked down into our staff where a campus Pastor to a our staff where a campus Pastor to a our staff where a campus Pastor to a staff he would lead the same way to his staff he would lead the same way to his staff he would lead the same way to his staff of we want and I think that's how staff of we want and I think that's how staff of we want and I think that's how we create a healthy feedback kind of a we create a healthy feedback kind of a we create a healthy feedback kind of a culture here at 12Stone so that's that's culture here at 12Stone so that's that's culture here at 12Stone so that's that's a one-off but I think it's it's a a one-off but I think it's it's a a one-off but I think it's it's a helpful piece to how this whole thing helpful piece to how this whole thing helpful piece to how this whole thing works here at 12Stone this is the works here at 12Stone this is the works here at 12Stone this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary we're going to jump taught in seminary we're going to jump taught in seminary we're going to jump into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we're super privileged show today we're super privileged show today we're super privileged honored to have Jason Barry with us from honored to have Jason Barry with us from honored to have Jason Barry with us from 12Stone Church it's been a great 12Stone Church it's been a great 12Stone Church it's been a great conversation so far uh Jason what's an conversation so far uh Jason what's an conversation so far uh Jason what's an online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these days that's particularly helpful oh it's days that's particularly helpful oh it's days that's particularly helpful oh it's probably cliche but Evernote it's a big probably cliche but Evernote it's a big probably cliche but Evernote it's a big deal being able to keep all your files deal being able to keep all your files deal being able to keep all your files and all your notes on all your devices and all your notes on all your devices and all your notes on all your devices and for me it helps in the quick little and for me it helps in the quick little and for me it helps in the quick little coffee meeting where someone says coffee meeting where someone says coffee meeting where someone says something you go that's gold and you something you go that's gold and you something you go that's gold and you type it and it's not just lost in some type it and it's not just lost in some type it and it's not just lost in some text message it's it's somewhere simple text message it's it's somewhere simple text message it's it's somewhere simple for me so that's what I use yeah I for me so that's what I use yeah I for me so that's what I use yeah I probably need to re asked this question probably need to re asked this question probably need to re asked this question of what's an online resource that's not of what's an online resource that's not of what's an online resource that's not Evernote that you're so Evernote Evernote that you're so Evernote Evernote that you're so Evernote Planning Center I mean yeah this this Planning Center I mean yeah this this Planning Center I mean yeah this this episode once again brought to you by episode once again brought to you by episode once again brought to you by Evernote uh it's a great uh it's a great Evernote uh it's a great uh it's a great Evernote uh it's a great uh it's a great thing what's a book you've read in the thing what's a book you've read in the thing what's a book you've read in the last I don't know six months to a year last I don't know six months to a year last I don't know six months to a year that's had an impact on your thinking that's had an impact on your thinking that's had an impact on your thinking and Ministry uh I've been talking a lot and Ministry uh I've been talking a lot and Ministry uh I've been talking a lot about feedback and it's probably because about feedback and it's probably because about feedback and it's probably because I'm reading a lot about feedback but

I'm reading a lot about feedback but I'm reading a lot about feedback but thanks for the feedback by Stone and thanks for the feedback by Stone and thanks for the feedback by Stone and scene uh it's a really great book that scene uh it's a really great book that scene uh it's a really great book that just unpacks the the not just the value just unpacks the the not just the value just unpacks the the not just the value of feedback but how uh how organization of feedback but how uh how organization of feedback but how uh how organization that do feedback well have created an that do feedback well have created an that do feedback well have created an environment where the best idea wins and environment where the best idea wins and environment where the best idea wins and the best idea doesn't get squashed down the best idea doesn't get squashed down the best idea doesn't get squashed down in the in the lower level of some corner in the in the lower level of some corner in the in the lower level of some corner of the organization so that's been a of the organization so that's been a of the organization so that's been a really helpful thing for us as we really helpful thing for us as we really helpful thing for us as we continue to invite feedback across the continue to invite feedback across the continue to invite feedback across the organization very cool what's another organization very cool what's another organization very cool what's another Ministry that you're looking to that Ministry that you're looking to that Ministry that you're looking to that inspires inspires inspires you uh man I have a real bent towards you uh man I have a real bent towards you uh man I have a real bent towards Christ Church of the Valley out in uh Christ Church of the Valley out in uh Christ Church of the Valley out in uh Arizona um their their uh senior pastor Arizona um their their uh senior pastor Arizona um their their uh senior pastor Don Wilson Ashley wridge their their XP Don Wilson Ashley wridge their their XP Don Wilson Ashley wridge their their XP just phenomenal think ERS they're just phenomenal think ERS they're just phenomenal think ERS they're they're a step or five ahead of where we they're a step or five ahead of where we they're a step or five ahead of where we are right now but they think really well are right now but they think really well are right now but they think really well they've been really helpful to us as they've been really helpful to us as they've been really helpful to us as we've been asking questions of how how we've been asking questions of how how we've been asking questions of how how did you guys make this decision how do did you guys make this decision how do did you guys make this decision how do you fall and every church is different you fall and every church is different you fall and every church is different you can't just take their stuff and you can't just take their stuff and you can't just take their stuff and superimpose it on your culture but they superimpose it on your culture but they superimpose it on your culture but they they do some really great stuff their they do some really great stuff their they do some really great stuff their Ministry to men is like nothing I've Ministry to men is like nothing I've Ministry to men is like nothing I've ever seen before so it's a great it's a ever seen before so it's a great it's a ever seen before so it's a great it's a phenomenal phenomenal Church very cool phenomenal phenomenal Church very cool phenomenal phenomenal Church very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any if you could get 15 minutes with any if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive um who would you want to leader alive um who would you want to leader alive um who would you want to get that with and why let's continue the get that with and why let's continue the get that with and why let's continue the cliche interview for me it's Billy cliche interview for me it's Billy cliche interview for me it's Billy Graham man absolutely the longer you Graham man absolutely the longer you Graham man absolutely the longer you live and the more you see the next cool live and the more you see the next cool live and the more you see the next cool hype Ministry come up and fall and come hype Ministry come up and fall and come hype Ministry come up and fall and come up and disappear and come up and there's up and disappear and come up and there's up and disappear and come up and there's something to the timelessness of Billy something to the timelessness of Billy something to the timelessness of Billy Graham where he he's just done it well Graham where he he's just done it well Graham where he he's just done it well for so long and there's never been a for so long and there's never been a for so long and there's never been a scandal or a mess up and sure he's not

scandal or a mess up and sure he's not scandal or a mess up and sure he's not perfect but he's just he's finished so perfect but he's just he's finished so perfect but he's just he's finished so well so that's a guy I'd love to just well so that's a guy I'd love to just well so that's a guy I'd love to just chat with for 15 minutes no absolutely chat with for 15 minutes no absolutely chat with for 15 minutes no absolutely for sure all right well I'm sure being for sure all right well I'm sure being for sure all right well I'm sure being in your role you know you've got a lot in your role you know you've got a lot in your role you know you've got a lot going on at 12Stone you just want to going on at 12Stone you just want to going on at 12Stone you just want to kick back have some fun you know what kick back have some fun you know what kick back have some fun you know what does what does that look like for you oh does what does that look like for you oh does what does that look like for you oh gosh whenever that does happen to to gosh whenever that does happen to to gosh whenever that does happen to to happen uh uh golf is always a fun fun happen uh uh golf is always a fun fun happen uh uh golf is always a fun fun sort of a deal I'm a movie guy uh man sort of a deal I'm a movie guy uh man sort of a deal I'm a movie guy uh man throw a throw a Blu-ray in and hang out throw a throw a Blu-ray in and hang out throw a throw a Blu-ray in and hang out with the family and eat some pizza is with the family and eat some pizza is with the family and eat some pizza is always a blast and then I'm in Georgia always a blast and then I'm in Georgia always a blast and then I'm in Georgia so shooting stuff is never a bad thing so shooting stuff is never a bad thing so shooting stuff is never a bad thing in the South no so that works as well in the South no so that works as well in the South no so that works as well that's great well Jason I appreciate you that's great well Jason I appreciate you that's great well Jason I appreciate you be on the show today if people want to be on the show today if people want to be on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or the church get in touch with you or the church get in touch with you or the church what's the best way to do what's the best way to do what's the best way to do uh the church's website is probably the uh the church's website is probably the uh the church's website is probably the best way to do it at this point is best way to do it at this point is best way to do it at this point is 12stone.com is is uh W www. 12stone.com 12stone.com is is uh W www. 12stone.com 12stone.com is is uh W www. 12stone.com hop on there and we've got lots of hop on there and we've got lots of hop on there and we've got lots of resources and then resources. resources and then resources. resources and then resources. 12stone.com is our kind of free website 12stone.com is our kind of free website 12stone.com is our kind of free website where it's got everything from org where it's got everything from org where it's got everything from org charts to Staffing approaches to charts to Staffing approaches to charts to Staffing approaches to leadership teachings and we give a lot leadership teachings and we give a lot leadership teachings and we give a lot of that away so feel free to jump on of that away so feel free to jump on of that away so feel free to jump on there as well nice well I appreciate you there as well nice well I appreciate you there as well nice well I appreciate you being on the show today thank you so being on the show today thank you so being on the show today thank you so much for taking time out thank you thank much for taking time out thank you thank much for taking time out thank you thank you God bless thank you for tuning in to you God bless thank you for tuning in to you God bless thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast this week's unseminary podcast this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at out unseminary inbox you can sign up at out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary dcom and we'll send you unseminary dcom and we'll send you unseminary dcom and we'll send you helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary decom don't forget

email rich unseminary decom don't forget email rich unseminary decom don't forget to check out the show notes for this to check out the show notes for this to check out the show notes for this episode at unseminary tocom it includes episode at unseminary tocom it includes episode at unseminary tocom it includes links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in taught in taught in seminary