Jim Nicodem on Depth of Discipleship in an Attractional Church

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host around podcast my name is rich the host around these parts I am so glad that you've these parts I am so glad that you've these parts I am so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today decided to spend some time with us today decided to spend some time with us today honored really I know things are really honored really I know things are really honored really I know things are really busy at your church you've got a lot busy at your church you've got a lot busy at your church you've got a lot going in on this week as we get ready going in on this week as we get ready going in on this week as we get ready for this weekend and so we're just for this weekend and so we're just for this weekend and so we're just honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time and papas in your ear buds to listen in and papas in your ear buds to listen in and papas in your ear buds to listen in on today's conversation today it's our on today's conversation today it's our on today's conversation today it's our privilege to have Jim nickel Dean with privilege to have Jim nickel Dean with privilege to have Jim nickel Dean with us from Christ Community Church it's a us from Christ Community Church it's a us from Christ Community Church it's a good great church leader great church good great church leader great church good great church leader great church Jim welcome to the show thanks rich it Jim welcome to the show thanks rich it Jim welcome to the show thanks rich it is good to be with you yeah for folks is good to be with you yeah for folks is good to be with you yeah for folks that don't know Jim was actually the that don't know Jim was actually the that don't know Jim was actually the founder of this church a few years ago founder of this church a few years ago founder of this church a few years ago back in the mid 80s when he was three back in the mid 80s when he was three back in the mid 80s when he was three years old and so this is a great church

years old and so this is a great church years old and so this is a great church about 5,000 people four locations in the about 5,000 people four locations in the about 5,000 people four locations in the greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't we start by you kind of giving us a we start by you kind of giving us a we start by you kind of giving us a flavor for your church tell us about flavor for your church tell us about flavor for your church tell us about Christ community you know we like to Christ community you know we like to Christ community you know we like to describe ourselves rich as a secret describe ourselves rich as a secret describe ourselves rich as a secret Church with death so that's our Church with death so that's our Church with death so that's our unofficial mottos house cheeki to say unofficial mottos house cheeki to say unofficial mottos house cheeki to say don't put it on our literature but we don't put it on our literature but we don't put it on our literature but we come out of a willow a sort of come out of a willow a sort of come out of a willow a sort of background our roots go back to a close background our roots go back to a close background our roots go back to a close connection with Willow Creek strategy of connection with Willow Creek strategy of connection with Willow Creek strategy of attracting people who are spiritually attracting people who are spiritually attracting people who are spiritually lost but at the same time my passion is lost but at the same time my passion is lost but at the same time my passion is for teaching God's Word I've got a for teaching God's Word I've got a for teaching God's Word I've got a biblical studies undergrad degree and biblical studies undergrad degree and biblical studies undergrad degree and then a man then a man then a man a doctorate in hermeneutics and what so a doctorate in hermeneutics and what so a doctorate in hermeneutics and what so I'm really passionate about people I'm really passionate about people I'm really passionate about people getting roots down into God's words so getting roots down into God's words so getting roots down into God's words so we want to take him somewhere once we we want to take him somewhere once we we want to take him somewhere once we lead them to Christ so it's the general lead them to Christ so it's the general lead them to Christ so it's the general flavor of who we are okay very cool now flavor of who we are okay very cool now flavor of who we are okay very cool now for people that may be listening in they for people that may be listening in they for people that may be listening in they may think that those are an apparent may think that those are an apparent may think that those are an apparent contradiction being both kind of contradiction being both kind of contradiction being both kind of attraction 'el and really identifying attraction 'el and really identifying attraction 'el and really identifying you know with a movement like Willow you know with a movement like Willow you know with a movement like Willow Creek but then at the same time trying Creek but then at the same time trying Creek but then at the same time trying to have a high highvolt you know kind of to have a high highvolt you know kind of to have a high highvolt you know kind of desire to disciple people how is that desire to disciple people how is that desire to disciple people how is that possible how is it that you're doing possible how is it that you're doing possible how is it that you're doing that at your church yeah that's you know that at your church yeah that's you know that at your church yeah that's you know it's a great question and and we have it's a great question and and we have it's a great question and and we have felt sometimes like like a fish out of felt sometimes like like a fish out of felt sometimes like like a fish out of water you go to sound conferences that water you go to sound conferences that water you go to sound conferences that are all about attraction ulm Ennis tree are all about attraction ulm Ennis tree are all about attraction ulm Ennis tree so if you're at willow you're at so if you're at willow you're at so if you're at willow you're at Northpoint you're in you're passionate Northpoint you're in you're passionate Northpoint you're in you're passionate about reaching the loss but you're about reaching the loss but you're about reaching the loss but you're sitting there thinking wow I wish I sitting there thinking wow I wish I sitting there thinking wow I wish I heard some stuff that was theologically

heard some stuff that was theologically heard some stuff that was theologically just a little deeper stretching me in just a little deeper stretching me in just a little deeper stretching me in that area some gospel coalition go to a that area some gospel coalition go to a that area some gospel coalition go to a John Piper conference and you're John Piper conference and you're John Piper conference and you're imbibing that stuff but you're thinking imbibing that stuff but you're thinking imbibing that stuff but you're thinking to yourself wow I wish there was a to yourself wow I wish there was a to yourself wow I wish there was a passion for reaching lost people right passion for reaching lost people right passion for reaching lost people right food being the poison and you you kind food being the poison and you you kind food being the poison and you you kind of feel caught between two worlds and of feel caught between two worlds and of feel caught between two worlds and we've just found that you can do both so we've just found that you can do both so we've just found that you can do both so you know for example on the attraction you know for example on the attraction you know for example on the attraction 'el site we've just come through a very 'el site we've just come through a very 'el site we've just come through a very busy December at the beginning of the busy December at the beginning of the busy December at the beginning of the month we do an outreach at the end of month we do an outreach at the end of month we do an outreach at the end of the month we do Christmas Eve services the month we do Christmas Eve services the month we do Christmas Eve services like everybody else from an attraction like everybody else from an attraction like everybody else from an attraction --all standpoint we had about a hundred --all standpoint we had about a hundred --all standpoint we had about a hundred and seventy some people come to Christ and seventy some people come to Christ and seventy some people come to Christ Wow amazing Wow amazing Wow amazing December and for us I mean we don't December and for us I mean we don't December and for us I mean we don't count people who just raise a hand or count people who just raise a hand or count people who just raise a hand or stand on their feet again less they're stand on their feet again less they're stand on their feet again less they're willing to go to our Welcome Center at willing to go to our Welcome Center at willing to go to our Welcome Center at one of our four campuses and pick up one of our four campuses and pick up one of our four campuses and pick up next step packet as a sign of their next step packet as a sign of their next step packet as a sign of their determination to follow Christ you know determination to follow Christ you know determination to follow Christ you know we don't count so in one of our campuses we don't count so in one of our campuses we don't count so in one of our campuses during invitations that were given during invitations that were given during invitations that were given during the Christmas Eve services during the Christmas Eve services during the Christmas Eve services seventy some people stood Wow three or seventy some people stood Wow three or seventy some people stood Wow three or four people picked up next steps packet four people picked up next steps packet four people picked up next steps packet so hang but I say we had a hundred and so hang but I say we had a hundred and so hang but I say we had a hundred and seventy come to Christ that's only the seventy come to Christ that's only the seventy come to Christ that's only the next steps packet so we're highly next steps packet so we're highly next steps packet so we're highly attraction --all but again in our attraction --all but again in our attraction --all but again in our ministry we are we're rabid about de ministry we are we're rabid about de ministry we are we're rabid about de cycling people and getting their rooms cycling people and getting their rooms cycling people and getting their rooms down in into God's Word interesting you down in into God's Word interesting you down in into God's Word interesting you know I think there's I think there's a know I think there's I think there's a know I think there's I think there's a growing trend of what your churches as growing trend of what your churches as growing trend of what your churches as tapped into I think there was a tapped into I think there was a tapped into I think there was a false dichotomy at one point between false dichotomy at one point between false dichotomy at one point between those two obviously we set that up as a those two obviously we set that up as a those two obviously we set that up as a yes an interesting conversation but I yes an interesting conversation but I yes an interesting conversation but I think as we're seeing churches that are

think as we're seeing churches that are think as we're seeing churches that are growing they really are trying to do growing they really are trying to do growing they really are trying to do both and do them well the thing I love both and do them well the thing I love both and do them well the thing I love about Christ community is you seem to about Christ community is you seem to about Christ community is you seem to have you know found some things that are have you know found some things that are have you know found some things that are working in your context that clearly working in your context that clearly working in your context that clearly your church is growing you're reaching your church is growing you're reaching your church is growing you're reaching people you know how do you do the big D people you know how do you do the big D people you know how do you do the big D word discipleship what does that look word discipleship what does that look word discipleship what does that look like at your church good now let me like at your church good now let me like at your church good now let me start let me start with the most start let me start with the most start let me start with the most prominent part the the tip of the prominent part the the tip of the prominent part the the tip of the iceberg that everybody sees at the iceberg that everybody sees at the iceberg that everybody sees at the weekend service that's the preaching yes weekend service that's the preaching yes weekend service that's the preaching yes so from a preaching standpoint again so from a preaching standpoint again so from a preaching standpoint again working on a hybrid model we we look out working on a hybrid model we we look out working on a hybrid model we we look out there there there are those who are big there there there are those who are big there there there are those who are big advocates of topical teaching so if you advocates of topical teaching so if you advocates of topical teaching so if you teach topically you tend to attract a teach topically you tend to attract a teach topically you tend to attract a crowd that has come for the topic crowd that has come for the topic crowd that has come for the topic whatever it is it's a parenting series whatever it is it's a parenting series whatever it is it's a parenting series it's it's a marriage series whatever on it's it's a marriage series whatever on it's it's a marriage series whatever on the other hand there are those who are the other hand there are those who are the other hand there are those who are real advocates of expositional teaching real advocates of expositional teaching real advocates of expositional teaching a we're going through the book of James a we're going through the book of James a we're going through the book of James you know and we're doing verse by verse you know and we're doing verse by verse you know and we're doing verse by verse by verse we try to blend the two and so by verse we try to blend the two and so by verse we try to blend the two and so so we approach things probably 80% of so we approach things probably 80% of so we approach things probably 80% of the time from a topical standpoint but the time from a topical standpoint but the time from a topical standpoint but every message that we preach here is every message that we preach here is every message that we preach here is rooted in one single text so we don't rooted in one single text so we don't rooted in one single text so we don't jump around proof texting this week in jump around proof texting this week in jump around proof texting this week in perfect example we're doing a series perfect example we're doing a series perfect example we're doing a series called back to plan a God's called back to plan a God's called back to plan a God's countercultural wisdom so we're looking countercultural wisdom so we're looking countercultural wisdom so we're looking at issues where our culture has drifted at issues where our culture has drifted at issues where our culture has drifted away from judeo-christian roots values away from judeo-christian roots values away from judeo-christian roots values and we're calling our people back to and we're calling our people back to and we're calling our people back to those you know those those biblical those you know those those biblical those you know those those biblical values and so we're hitting on a variety values and so we're hitting on a variety values and so we're hitting on a variety of topics we're hitting on racism on of topics we're hitting on racism on of topics we're hitting on racism on Martin Luther King jr. weekend we're at

Martin Luther King jr. weekend we're at Martin Luther King jr. weekend we're at the end a sanctity of life we're doing the end a sanctity of life we're doing the end a sanctity of life we're doing something on abortion and so but every something on abortion and so but every something on abortion and so but every time we hit on a topic we draw from one time we hit on a topic we draw from one time we hit on a topic we draw from one particular text so this weekend the particular text so this weekend the particular text so this weekend the topic is materialism I'm preaching topic is materialism I'm preaching topic is materialism I'm preaching through a segment of first Timothy 6 our through a segment of first Timothy 6 our through a segment of first Timothy 6 our goal is not only to teach people within goal is not only to teach people within goal is not only to teach people within the text topically so those who are the text topically so those who are the text topically so those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are seeking exploring the faith feel like seeking exploring the faith feel like seeking exploring the faith feel like they're being pulled in love we're also they're being pulled in love we're also they're being pulled in love we're also teaching people how to work through a teaching people how to work through a teaching people how to work through a segment of Scripture so rather than segment of Scripture so rather than segment of Scripture so rather than being impressed with me at the end of being impressed with me at the end of being impressed with me at the end of the sermon like wow the sermon like wow the sermon like wow that guy he brought me here they're that guy he brought me here they're that guy he brought me here they're everywhere around the Bible all I did is everywhere around the Bible all I did is everywhere around the Bible all I did is walk them through one text and they're walk them through one text and they're walk them through one text and they're able to see able to see able to see oh that spoke to me I can do this I oh that spoke to me I can do this I oh that spoke to me I can do this I could go home open a Bible read a could go home open a Bible read a could go home open a Bible read a passage where you know we're just passage where you know we're just passage where you know we're just teaching basic rules of how to study and teaching basic rules of how to study and teaching basic rules of how to study and versus within their context and yet so versus within their context and yet so versus within their context and yet so you know that's the blend that's the you know that's the blend that's the you know that's the blend that's the hybrid doing text topical teaching hybrid doing text topical teaching hybrid doing text topical teaching that's that's very interesting I love that's that's very interesting I love that's that's very interesting I love that now are you do is what kind of a that now are you do is what kind of a that now are you do is what kind of a time of year that you will then actually time of year that you will then actually time of year that you will then actually take out and say we're actually going to take out and say we're actually going to take out and say we're actually going to go through this book we're gonna take go through this book we're gonna take go through this book we're gonna take you know you or we're gonna follow this you know you or we're gonna follow this you know you or we're gonna follow this narrative do you do that as well when narrative do you do that as well when narrative do you do that as well when you blend it is that kind of what you're you blend it is that kind of what you're you blend it is that kind of what you're doing we will do maybe 20% of the time doing we will do maybe 20% of the time doing we will do maybe 20% of the time we will do a more purely walkthrough a we will do a more purely walkthrough a we will do a more purely walkthrough a segment of scriptures so an example of segment of scriptures so an example of segment of scriptures so an example of that is in late November and in the that is in late November and in the that is in late November and in the month of December we did a series in month of December we did a series in month of December we did a series in Hebrews but we treated it topically we Hebrews but we treated it topically we Hebrews but we treated it topically we called it a picture perfect images of called it a picture perfect images of called it a picture perfect images of Jesus in the book of Hebrews and so you

Jesus in the book of Hebrews and so you Jesus in the book of Hebrews and so you know you're familiar with Hebrews we know you're familiar with Hebrews we know you're familiar with Hebrews we spent a week talking about Jesus as spent a week talking about Jesus as spent a week talking about Jesus as exalted above angels we talked about exalted above angels we talked about exalted above angels we talked about Jesus as the high priest we talked about Jesus as the high priest we talked about Jesus as the high priest we talked about Jesus as the perfect sacrifice we talked Jesus as the perfect sacrifice we talked Jesus as the perfect sacrifice we talked about just as the Sabbath rest so you about just as the Sabbath rest so you about just as the Sabbath rest so you know we walked through large segments of know we walked through large segments of know we walked through large segments of Hebrews during the course of that series Hebrews during the course of that series Hebrews during the course of that series but it was treated kind of topically but it was treated kind of topically but it was treated kind of topically because of the way we approached it from because of the way we approached it from because of the way we approached it from week to week we'll do the same thing week to week we'll do the same thing week to week we'll do the same thing leading up to Easter will sometimes say leading up to Easter will sometimes say leading up to Easter will sometimes say okay we're gonna walk through the okay we're gonna walk through the okay we're gonna walk through the chapters in Matthew cover Passion Week chapters in Matthew cover Passion Week chapters in Matthew cover Passion Week beginning and we're gonna do a five or beginning and we're gonna do a five or beginning and we're gonna do a five or six week series on it so those are the six week series on it so those are the six week series on it so those are the kinds of of textual series a more purely kinds of of textual series a more purely kinds of of textual series a more purely textual that we'll do sometimes very textual that we'll do sometimes very textual that we'll do sometimes very cool so you mentioned that is one piece cool so you mentioned that is one piece cool so you mentioned that is one piece of the discipleship puzzle I appreciate of the discipleship puzzle I appreciate of the discipleship puzzle I appreciate you starting there because I think a lot you starting there because I think a lot you starting there because I think a lot of times we just take that for granted of times we just take that for granted of times we just take that for granted other pieces of the discipleship puzzle other pieces of the discipleship puzzle other pieces of the discipleship puzzle at your church yeah worship so I'm still at your church yeah worship so I'm still at your church yeah worship so I'm still parking on the southern service that is parking on the southern service that is parking on the southern service that is the you know the main point of contact the you know the main point of contact the you know the main point of contact that people have with her and again we that people have with her and again we that people have with her and again we just work on a hybrid model so my just work on a hybrid model so my just work on a hybrid model so my experience of contemporary worship as I experience of contemporary worship as I experience of contemporary worship as I go into churches around the country in go into churches around the country in go into churches around the country in in many places contemporary worship in many places contemporary worship in many places contemporary worship means high energy it gets a killer band means high energy it gets a killer band means high energy it gets a killer band it's three to four numbers phase the it's three to four numbers phase the it's three to four numbers phase the roof roof roof back-to-back and people to paint off the back-to-back and people to paint off the back-to-back and people to paint off the walls measure space and I am rich I love walls measure space and I am rich I love walls measure space and I am rich I love music I love that kind of worship but music I love that kind of worship but music I love that kind of worship but the flipside at the other end of the the flipside at the other end of the the flipside at the other end of the spectrum a more liturgical worship you spectrum a more liturgical worship you spectrum a more liturgical worship you know you go into a church that's got

know you go into a church that's got know you go into a church that's got liturgy and there are creeps and there liturgy and there are creeps and there liturgy and there are creeps and there are can you know times of silence times are can you know times of silence times are can you know times of silence times when sin is being confessed there's when sin is being confessed there's when sin is being confessed there's readings of Scripture that are done readings of Scripture that are done readings of Scripture that are done antiphonal II and so and so yeah antiphonal II and so and so yeah antiphonal II and so and so yeah seriously when I get away from Christ seriously when I get away from Christ seriously when I get away from Christ community I gravitate toward a local community I gravitate toward a local community I gravitate toward a local Anglican Church that's very evangelical Anglican Church that's very evangelical Anglican Church that's very evangelical because it's so different so you know because it's so different so you know because it's so different so you know probably three four years ago I was probably three four years ago I was probably three four years ago I was wondering why can't we do a little bit wondering why can't we do a little bit wondering why can't we do a little bit of both why can't we bring more of the of both why can't we bring more of the of both why can't we bring more of the depth that you'll feel analytical depth that you'll feel analytical depth that you'll feel analytical worship into our contemporary worship worship into our contemporary worship worship into our contemporary worship and blend the two together so there you and blend the two together so there you and blend the two together so there you know there are people around the country know there are people around the country know there are people around the country that are trying to do this and I've gone that are trying to do this and I've gone that are trying to do this and I've gone to school on one of those guys Glen to school on one of those guys Glen to school on one of those guys Glen Packham whose worship leader out at new Packham whose worship leader out at new Packham whose worship leader out at new life in Colorado an integrity artist got life in Colorado an integrity artist got life in Colorado an integrity artist got a band cook and band whatever but he's a band cook and band whatever but he's a band cook and band whatever but he's now leading a worship service it's now leading a worship service it's now leading a worship service it's largely liturgical so the dude knows how largely liturgical so the dude knows how largely liturgical so the dude knows how to blend the two and so I've gone to to blend the two and so I've gone to to blend the two and so I've gone to school on Glen and on others in one of school on Glen and on others in one of school on Glen and on others in one of the things Glen teaches is that is that the things Glen teaches is that is that the things Glen teaches is that is that worship is not just a faith expressing worship is not just a faith expressing worship is not just a faith expressing activity but it's also a faith shaping activity but it's also a faith shaping activity but it's also a faith shaping activity and bunch of contemporary activity and bunch of contemporary activity and bunch of contemporary worship it's all about expressing so worship it's all about expressing so worship it's all about expressing so hands lifted honoring yeah again raised hands lifted honoring yeah again raised hands lifted honoring yeah again raised in the rough yeah in liturgical it tends in the rough yeah in liturgical it tends in the rough yeah in liturgical it tends to be shaping we're doing these to be shaping we're doing these to be shaping we're doing these repetitious things because we're shake repetitious things because we're shake repetitious things because we're shake it's consonant component of the service it's consonant component of the service it's consonant component of the service so you know one of the first things we so you know one of the first things we so you know one of the first things we did in that regard is we moved a did in that regard is we moved a did in that regard is we moved a teaching pastor onto the worship teaching pastor onto the worship teaching pastor onto the worship planning team today planning team today planning team today initially it rocks the boat a little bit

initially it rocks the boat a little bit initially it rocks the boat a little bit worship leaders are like you don't trust worship leaders are like you don't trust worship leaders are like you don't trust us you don't have skinny jeans you can't us you don't have skinny jeans you can't us you don't have skinny jeans you can't be there no so so it's you know it's be there no so so it's you know it's be there no so so it's you know it's bringing a teaching pastors mindset bringing a teaching pastors mindset bringing a teaching pastors mindset saying you know this is not just going saying you know this is not just going saying you know this is not just going to be a rah-rah worship it's gonna be to be a rah-rah worship it's gonna be to be a rah-rah worship it's gonna be Southie where we're thinking from a Southie where we're thinking from a Southie where we're thinking from a teaching standpoint of how we're shaping teaching standpoint of how we're shaping teaching standpoint of how we're shaping people's faith people's faith people's faith it means screening songs so we're not it means screening songs so we're not it means screening songs so we're not doing stuff that's theologically doing stuff that's theologically doing stuff that's theologically you know just dribble it means being you know just dribble it means being you know just dribble it means being willing to live with low-energy moments willing to live with low-energy moments willing to live with low-energy moments during the worship so and again the during the worship so and again the during the worship so and again the initially the band that was so hard for initially the band that was so hard for initially the band that was so hard for them it's like whoa you just you pulled them it's like whoa you just you pulled them it's like whoa you just you pulled everything grounded to a halt we had everything grounded to a halt we had everything grounded to a halt we had things cooking and now you're stopping things cooking and now you're stopping things cooking and now you're stopping for a quiet moment of confessional for a quiet moment of confessional for a quiet moment of confessional prayer you got to get everybody used to prayer you got to get everybody used to prayer you got to get everybody used to the fact that yeah there's gonna be some the fact that yeah there's gonna be some the fact that yeah there's gonna be some stop-and-start sort of thing stop-and-start sort of thing stop-and-start sort of thing thanks going on its it means organizing thanks going on its it means organizing thanks going on its it means organizing the worship around a theme a theme that the worship around a theme a theme that the worship around a theme a theme that fits possibly with the sermon of the day fits possibly with the sermon of the day fits possibly with the sermon of the day sometimes our theme is just the gospel sometimes our theme is just the gospel sometimes our theme is just the gospel our worship follows the creation fall our worship follows the creation fall our worship follows the creation fall rest redemption restoration outline of rest redemption restoration outline of rest redemption restoration outline of the gospel so that's another way we're the gospel so that's another way we're the gospel so that's another way we're trying to deepen people and their trying to deepen people and their trying to deepen people and their commitment to Christ make disciples out commitment to Christ make disciples out commitment to Christ make disciples out of them it's through worship that is got of them it's through worship that is got of them it's through worship that is got some depth to it some depth to it some depth to it mm very cool very cool I love what mm very cool very cool I love what mm very cool very cool I love what you're saying there I think sometimes you're saying there I think sometimes you're saying there I think sometimes again using a straw man I don't think again using a straw man I don't think again using a straw man I don't think this actually exists I think sometimes I this actually exists I think sometimes I this actually exists I think sometimes I listen I've spent you know my ministry listen I've spent you know my ministry listen I've spent you know my ministry career in attraction which is what I've career in attraction which is what I've career in attraction which is what I've done that's been my life's work and I I done that's been my life's work and I I done that's been my life's work and I I think we can sometimes against straw man

think we can sometimes against straw man think we can sometimes against straw man be like well the music is all it needs be like well the music is all it needs be like well the music is all it needs to do is get people's attention it's to do is get people's attention it's to do is get people's attention it's like that you know and that's you know like that you know and that's you know like that you know and that's you know what I love that you're doing is pushing what I love that you're doing is pushing what I love that you're doing is pushing you're asking a deeper question and you're asking a deeper question and you're asking a deeper question and saying hey how can we use this actually saying hey how can we use this actually saying hey how can we use this actually as a forming process what are you doing as a forming process what are you doing as a forming process what are you doing to think through the discipleship piece to think through the discipleship piece to think through the discipleship piece at your church you know probably the at your church you know probably the at your church you know probably the most obvious one and and I'm sure you most obvious one and and I'm sure you most obvious one and and I'm sure you know everybody listening to us is in know everybody listening to us is in know everybody listening to us is in church world's doing the same thing it's church world's doing the same thing it's church world's doing the same thing it's the usik of small groups we call them the usik of small groups we call them the usik of small groups we call them community groups 75 to 80 percent of our community groups 75 to 80 percent of our community groups 75 to 80 percent of our weekend attenders are involved in a weekend attenders are involved in a weekend attenders are involved in a community Wow community Wow community Wow so credible it's it's a huge figure for so credible it's it's a huge figure for so credible it's it's a huge figure for us and it's a statistic that we we work us and it's a statistic that we we work us and it's a statistic that we we work hard to yeah right absolutely that's hard to yeah right absolutely that's hard to yeah right absolutely that's incredible so one of the things that's incredible so one of the things that's incredible so one of the things that's helped us in that regard is and we helped us in that regard is and we helped us in that regard is and we picked this up from Greg options book picked this up from Greg options book picked this up from Greg options book move so yeah Greg was the executive move so yeah Greg was the executive move so yeah Greg was the executive pastor at willow for years and he they pastor at willow for years and he they pastor at willow for years and he they did that whole reveal study that they did that whole reveal study that they did that whole reveal study that they were taking people to depth in faith and were taking people to depth in faith and were taking people to depth in faith and so what what some people may not be so what what some people may not be so what what some people may not be aware of is that subsequent to reveal aware of is that subsequent to reveal aware of is that subsequent to reveal Greg did a study of a thousand church Greg did a study of a thousand church Greg did a study of a thousand church that were making it happen discipleship that were making it happen discipleship that were making it happen discipleship happened to find out what are they doing happened to find out what are they doing happened to find out what are they doing well what is successfully going on in well what is successfully going on in well what is successfully going on in these churches and one of the things he these churches and one of the things he these churches and one of the things he discovered is that they have a clear discovered is that they have a clear discovered is that they have a clear path of discipleship and it's not so path of discipleship and it's not so path of discipleship and it's not so important down the road a little you important down the road a little you important down the road a little you know little distance we're people know little distance we're people know little distance we're people options but initially the first two or options but initially the first two or options but initially the first two or three steps got to be clearly spelled

three steps got to be clearly spelled three steps got to be clearly spelled out there hasn't clear on-ramp for how out there hasn't clear on-ramp for how out there hasn't clear on-ramp for how people get started and so for us before people get started and so for us before people get started and so for us before we get people into groups there's three we get people into groups there's three we get people into groups there's three on on ramps and depending on what on on ramps and depending on what on on ramps and depending on what condition you come spiritually to our condition you come spiritually to our condition you come spiritually to our church you'll choose one of those so if church you'll choose one of those so if church you'll choose one of those so if you exploring the faith your on-ramp is you exploring the faith your on-ramp is you exploring the faith your on-ramp is alpha know want to get you into alpha alpha know want to get you into alpha alpha know want to get you into alpha find out about what Christianity is you find out about what Christianity is you find out about what Christianity is you know is all about if you come to us and know is all about if you come to us and know is all about if you come to us and you're just making your faith decision you're just making your faith decision you're just making your faith decision you've come search you you know you've you've come search you you know you've you've come search you you know you've picked up a next steps packet now you picked up a next steps packet now you picked up a next steps packet now you believer we want to get you into next believer we want to get you into next believer we want to get you into next next steps class so it's a class that's next steps class so it's a class that's next steps class so it's a class that's your on-ramp if you're coming to our your on-ramp if you're coming to our your on-ramp if you're coming to our church because you just moved from San church because you just moved from San church because you just moved from San Diego and you're Christ follower and Diego and you're Christ follower and Diego and you're Christ follower and you're coming from an Emma Jellicle you're coming from an Emma Jellicle you're coming from an Emma Jellicle Church we've got a course called begin Church we've got a course called begin Church we've got a course called begin to belong hmm and so so we've got to belong hmm and so so we've got to belong hmm and so so we've got clearly marked on ramps depending on clearly marked on ramps depending on clearly marked on ramps depending on where you're at in your spiritual where you're at in your spiritual where you're at in your spiritual journey perfect get involved and then journey perfect get involved and then journey perfect get involved and then after that it's community groups we need after that it's community groups we need after that it's community groups we need you in a group I think the important you in a group I think the important you in a group I think the important thing to underline there for people is thing to underline there for people is thing to underline there for people is and we've seen this time and time again and we've seen this time and time again and we've seen this time and time again we've taken kind of a focus on some one we've taken kind of a focus on some one we've taken kind of a focus on some one area talking with churches you know area talking with churches you know area talking with churches you know fast-growing churches that are doing a fast-growing churches that are doing a fast-growing churches that are doing a good job integrating things people and good job integrating things people and good job integrating things people and time and time again the thing that comes time and time again the thing that comes time and time again the thing that comes back is clear and obvious particularly back is clear and obvious particularly back is clear and obvious particularly first steps yes do you not that has to first steps yes do you not that has to first steps yes do you not that has to be so obvious so strategic absolutely be so obvious so strategic absolutely be so obvious so strategic absolutely you can't have here's ten different you can't have here's ten different you can't have here's ten different things there was a time in ministry things there was a time in ministry things there was a time in ministry where it was great to brag we've got 101 where it was great to brag we've got 101 where it was great to brag we've got 101 ministries this that day is done we've ministries this that day is done we've ministries this that day is done we've got to have very very clear steps I love got to have very very clear steps I love got to have very very clear steps I love if you don't very quickly you went if you don't very quickly you went if you don't very quickly you went through there and described it you know

through there and described it you know through there and described it you know really everyone who could potentially really everyone who could potentially really everyone who could potentially ever come to your church and said here's ever come to your church and said here's ever come to your church and said here's three places you could go to if you three places you could go to if you three places you could go to if you can't do that church leaders that's can't do that church leaders that's can't do that church leaders that's something you need to work on for sure something you need to work on for sure something you need to work on for sure now the actual community group now the actual community group now the actual community group experience when people land there what experience when people land there what experience when people land there what does that look like at your church yeah does that look like at your church yeah does that look like at your church yeah here are several ways we're trying to here are several ways we're trying to here are several ways we're trying to make sure that depth happens that make sure that depth happens that make sure that depth happens that discipleship happens one is discipleship happens one is discipleship happens one is we asked our groups at least every other we asked our groups at least every other we asked our groups at least every other study it needs to be a book study of study it needs to be a book study of study it needs to be a book study of Scripture so it's so easy to gravitate Scripture so it's so easy to gravitate Scripture so it's so easy to gravitate toward topical studies and you know toward topical studies and you know toward topical studies and you know sometimes there's depth to them sometimes there's depth to them sometimes there's depth to them sometimes there's not depth to them you sometimes there's not depth to them you sometimes there's not depth to them you know we're II operate on a free-market know we're II operate on a free-market know we're II operate on a free-market system so we allow our groups to pick system so we allow our groups to pick system so we allow our groups to pick and choose their curriculum but every and choose their curriculum but every and choose their curriculum but every other one is got to be hey we're going other one is got to be hey we're going other one is got to be hey we're going through the book of Proverbs or hey a through the book of Proverbs or hey a through the book of Proverbs or hey a study in the life of David and in you study in the life of David and in you study in the life of David and in you know in 1st and 2nd samuel something know in 1st and 2nd samuel something know in 1st and 2nd samuel something like that then secondly even the free like that then secondly even the free like that then secondly even the free market opportunities they have we try to market opportunities they have we try to market opportunities they have we try to guide them in the choice of their guide them in the choice of their guide them in the choice of their curriculums curriculums curriculums so these sift through we filter through so these sift through we filter through so these sift through we filter through sorry this curriculum I know it's sorry this curriculum I know it's sorry this curriculum I know it's popular out there but no it's it's popular out there but no it's it's popular out there but no it's it's cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth or whatever so we're kind of careful in or whatever so we're kind of careful in or whatever so we're kind of careful in what we people and then lastly we try to what we people and then lastly we try to what we people and then lastly we try to train our leaders really well and one of train our leaders really well and one of train our leaders really well and one of the things I've done in that regard the things I've done in that regard the things I've done in that regard Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote a for book sequence for movie publishers a for book sequence for movie publishers a for book sequence for movie publishers idle savvy he woke up to the realization idle savvy he woke up to the realization idle savvy he woke up to the realization we got over 300 small groups going out we got over 300 small groups going out we got over 300 small groups going out of here they're trusting the spiritual

of here they're trusting the spiritual of here they're trusting the spiritual shepherding to these leaders what do we shepherding to these leaders what do we shepherding to these leaders what do we know about their Bible acumen or about know about their Bible acumen or about know about their Bible acumen or about their you know their their knowledge of their you know their their knowledge of their you know their their knowledge of Old Testament New Testament basic Old Testament New Testament basic Old Testament New Testament basic hermeneutics etc so I wrote this for hermeneutics etc so I wrote this for hermeneutics etc so I wrote this for book series specifically for community book series specifically for community book series specifically for community group leaders someone called epic covers group leaders someone called epic covers group leaders someone called epic covers the Bible storyline so Genesis the Bible storyline so Genesis the Bible storyline so Genesis revelation it's it's a real simple flow revelation it's it's a real simple flow revelation it's it's a real simple flow of the plan of redemption through of the plan of redemption through of the plan of redemption through through Scripture 2nd book is called through Scripture 2nd book is called through Scripture 2nd book is called Foundation and apologetic issues how do Foundation and apologetic issues how do Foundation and apologetic issues how do we know the Bible's credible it's it's we know the Bible's credible it's it's we know the Bible's credible it's it's kind of Lee Strobel ish a third book is kind of Lee Strobel ish a third book is kind of Lee Strobel ish a third book is called context and it deals with basic called context and it deals with basic called context and it deals with basic hermeneutics it's if you've read Gordon hermeneutics it's if you've read Gordon hermeneutics it's if you've read Gordon fees book how to read the Bible for all fees book how to read the Bible for all fees book how to read the Bible for all it's worth is this putting the cookies it's worth is this putting the cookies it's worth is this putting the cookies at an even lower level right he said at an even lower level right he said at an even lower level right he said communiques and then the last book walk communiques and then the last book walk communiques and then the last book walk is how do you take what you've read and is how do you take what you've read and is how do you take what you've read and put it into practice and so those four put it into practice and so those four put it into practice and so those four books they're short books they're like books they're short books they're like books they're short books they're like four or five chapter books and we have four or five chapter books and we have four or five chapter books and we have had them bound moody's bound them in a had them bound moody's bound them in a had them bound moody's bound them in a book set and we made sure every single book set and we made sure every single book set and we made sure every single one of our leaders has them any of the one of our leaders has them any of the one of our leaders has them any of the groups decided then to use them as their groups decided then to use them as their groups decided then to use them as their curriculum again you know in the group curriculum again you know in the group curriculum again you know in the group study so just again another way ensuring study so just again another way ensuring study so just again another way ensuring that there's a quality of disciple going that there's a quality of disciple going that there's a quality of disciple going on in our small groups absolutely if on in our small groups absolutely if on in our small groups absolutely if people listen to the you know in people listen to the you know in people listen to the you know in seminary podcast they know I'm not the seminary podcast they know I'm not the seminary podcast they know I'm not the kind of guy that just brings people on kind of guy that just brings people on kind of guy that just brings people on all the time to sell books but the thing all the time to sell books but the thing all the time to sell books but the thing I do want you to do is to check out this I do want you to do is to check out this I do want you to do is to check out this resource I do think I know listen there

resource I do think I know listen there resource I do think I know listen there are a lot of church leaders that listen are a lot of church leaders that listen are a lot of church leaders that listen in that are from attraction which is in that are from attraction which is in that are from attraction which is that if we're honest we lie awake at that if we're honest we lie awake at that if we're honest we lie awake at night and think the exact same thing the night and think the exact same thing the night and think the exact same thing the same thing you realize with your church same thing you realize with your church same thing you realize with your church you're like man a lot of this rides on you're like man a lot of this rides on you're like man a lot of this rides on you know Frank and Susie and Bill and you know Frank and Susie and Bill and you know Frank and Susie and Bill and their ability to disciple people and I'm their ability to disciple people and I'm their ability to disciple people and I'm if I'm honest I don't really know how if I'm honest I don't really know how if I'm honest I don't really know how that's going I don't have a systematic that's going I don't have a systematic that's going I don't have a systematic way of saying hey what is it that they way of saying hey what is it that they way of saying hey what is it that they know and are they passing that on the know and are they passing that on the know and are they passing that on the thing I love about this resource is you thing I love about this resource is you thing I love about this resource is you know like you say you've put the cookies know like you say you've put the cookies know like you say you've put the cookies on the bottom shelf in a way that's on the bottom shelf in a way that's on the bottom shelf in a way that's accessible for folks that they then can accessible for folks that they then can accessible for folks that they then can turn around and lead you know with turn around and lead you know with turn around and lead you know with excellence so I would strongly recommend excellence so I would strongly recommend excellence so I would strongly recommend we'll put links in the show notes of how we'll put links in the show notes of how we'll put links in the show notes of how to get that and all that but I really to get that and all that but I really to get that and all that but I really would suggest you look in you know look would suggest you look in you know look would suggest you look in you know look into that for sure if you were to kind into that for sure if you were to kind into that for sure if you were to kind of talk to a church leader let's you of talk to a church leader let's you of talk to a church leader let's you know give it a little bit a little bit know give it a little bit a little bit know give it a little bit a little bit of coaching you get a call from a church of coaching you get a call from a church of coaching you get a call from a church leader says listen I really do want to leader says listen I really do want to leader says listen I really do want to up our our discipleship game this year I up our our discipleship game this year I up our our discipleship game this year I I feel like we do a good job we've got I feel like we do a good job we've got I feel like we do a good job we've got thirty percent of our people it seems thirty percent of our people it seems thirty percent of our people it seems like every church I talk to you they like every church I talk to you they like every church I talk to you they have 30 percent of their people in in have 30 percent of their people in in have 30 percent of their people in in some sort of community group life group some sort of community group life group some sort of community group life group I'm not happy with that I'm not happy with that I'm not happy with that I you know and the quality of those I you know and the quality of those I you know and the quality of those groups I don't know like some are good groups I don't know like some are good groups I don't know like some are good some are not good where should I start some are not good where should I start some are not good where should I start to kind of up the discipleship game in to kind of up the discipleship game in to kind of up the discipleship game in this coming year at my church yeah yeah this coming year at my church yeah yeah this coming year at my church yeah yeah you know I have some obvious biases but you know I have some obvious biases but you know I have some obvious biases but now yeah I'll just go back to some of now yeah I'll just go back to some of now yeah I'll just go back to some of the things I've already the things I've already the things I've already yeah pretty said rich yeah I'd say for a yeah pretty said rich yeah I'd say for a yeah pretty said rich yeah I'd say for a passenger starts with your with your passenger starts with your with your passenger starts with your with your preaching yeah I you know if you want to preaching yeah I you know if you want to preaching yeah I you know if you want to whet people's appetite for God's Word whet people's appetite for God's Word whet people's appetite for God's Word then preach through one text even if

then preach through one text even if then preach through one text even if you're a topical teacher even if you you're a topical teacher even if you you're a topical teacher even if you want to do an attraction ulm odd --all want to do an attraction ulm odd --all want to do an attraction ulm odd --all and so you want to do topical series and so you want to do topical series and so you want to do topical series that draw in Outsiders determine that that draw in Outsiders determine that that draw in Outsiders determine that from week to week you're going to choose from week to week you're going to choose from week to week you're going to choose one chair text that you sit in so it one chair text that you sit in so it one chair text that you sit in so it accomplished accomplished accomplished two things you teach the topic but you two things you teach the topic but you two things you teach the topic but you also teach people how to study the Bible also teach people how to study the Bible also teach people how to study the Bible you whet their appetite for one wanting you whet their appetite for one wanting you whet their appetite for one wanting to do it to do it to do it so I you know I think that's a huge huge so I you know I think that's a huge huge so I you know I think that's a huge huge way to begin role modeling you know it way to begin role modeling you know it way to begin role modeling you know it always comes back to the pastor having always comes back to the pastor having always comes back to the pastor having to be the poster child for whatever the to be the poster child for whatever the to be the poster child for whatever the value is so if you're gonna get people value is so if you're gonna get people value is so if you're gonna get people in into a community group into a small in into a community group into a small in into a community group into a small group you got to be leaking it all the group you got to be leaking it all the group you got to be leaking it all the time that you're in a group come on time that you're in a group come on time that you're in a group come on that's not true senior pastors don't that's not true senior pastors don't that's not true senior pastors don't have to be under discount economies let have to be under discount economies let have to be under discount economies let just huge you know one group after just huge you know one group after just huge you know one group after another over thirty years of ministry at another over thirty years of ministry at another over thirty years of ministry at Christ Community Church I am passionate Christ Community Church I am passionate Christ Community Church I am passionate about discipline men and I love to be in about discipline men and I love to be in about discipline men and I love to be in a group that's always got one or two a group that's always got one or two a group that's always got one or two guys at least who are not yet they guys at least who are not yet they guys at least who are not yet they haven't crossed over the line they're haven't crossed over the line they're haven't crossed over the line they're not yet surrendered to Christ one or two not yet surrendered to Christ one or two not yet surrendered to Christ one or two guys who are new believers this is the guys who are new believers this is the guys who are new believers this is the first time they're cracking the Bible on first time they're cracking the Bible on first time they're cracking the Bible on a Bible so in then and then that leaks a Bible so in then and then that leaks a Bible so in then and then that leaks into My servants through illustrations into My servants through illustrations into My servants through illustrations I'm referring to a community group and I'm referring to a community group and I'm referring to a community group and something that somebody shared in any something that somebody shared in any something that somebody shared in any way in that that stuff is caught as much way in that that stuff is caught as much way in that that stuff is caught as much as taught so you could beat the drum for as taught so you could beat the drum for as taught so you could beat the drum for community groups but unless you're you community groups but unless you're you community groups but unless you're you know you are demonstrating that you're know you are demonstrating that you're know you are demonstrating that you're involved yourself not going to be picked involved yourself not going to be picked involved yourself not going to be picked up that's a huge lesson I know there up that's a huge lesson I know there up that's a huge lesson I know there could be people there senior leaders could be people there senior leaders could be people there senior leaders today that have heard that before but today that have heard that before but today that have heard that before but I've seen that in action time and time I've seen that in action time and time I've seen that in action time and time again when are you know when a senior

again when are you know when a senior again when are you know when a senior leader gets up and they're not it's not leader gets up and they're not it's not leader gets up and they're not it's not in the once a year sermon around why you in the once a year sermon around why you in the once a year sermon around why you should be in a community group if no no should be in a community group if no no should be in a community group if no no it's not and then it's the sentences it's not and then it's the sentences it's not and then it's the sentences here in there hey this week we were out here in there hey this week we were out here in there hey this week we were out with our life group and this is a with our life group and this is a with our life group and this is a question that came out wow that was question that came out wow that was question that came out wow that was amazing or I was talking to this guy in amazing or I was talking to this guy in amazing or I was talking to this guy in our community group and he asked this our community group and he asked this our community group and he asked this question and I'm excited about that or question and I'm excited about that or question and I'm excited about that or we went and served together at the soup we went and served together at the soup we went and served together at the soup kitchen and man that was such a great kitchen and man that was such a great kitchen and man that was such a great experience and let me tell you this experience and let me tell you this experience and let me tell you this funny thing that happened those small funny thing that happened those small funny thing that happened those small pieces drive people to think gosh maybe pieces drive people to think gosh maybe pieces drive people to think gosh maybe I should be a part of of one of those so I should be a part of of one of those so I should be a part of of one of those so yeah good great this has been a great yeah good great this has been a great yeah good great this has been a great conversation I really thank you so much conversation I really thank you so much conversation I really thank you so much for you know taking time out is there for you know taking time out is there for you know taking time out is there anything else you want to share before anything else you want to share before anything else you want to share before we wrap up today's episode you know I we wrap up today's episode you know I we wrap up today's episode you know I think we've covered it you know one think we've covered it you know one think we've covered it you know one other piece that that we've done up the other piece that that we've done up the other piece that that we've done up the road for years now we've been moving road for years now we've been moving road for years now we've been moving people along the lines of three asks so people along the lines of three asks so people along the lines of three asks so we asked you to be here at a weekend we asked you to be here at a weekend we asked you to be here at a weekend service that's really critical if you service that's really critical if you service that's really critical if you want to want to want to we asked you to serve in some way and we we asked you to serve in some way and we we asked you to serve in some way and we asked you to get into a community group asked you to get into a community group asked you to get into a community group and we just added a fourth ask and again and we just added a fourth ask and again and we just added a fourth ask and again it it's helped us organize all that it it's helped us organize all that it it's helped us organize all that stray stuff so you know how do we get stray stuff so you know how do we get stray stuff so you know how do we get people introduced to the Old Testament people introduced to the Old Testament people introduced to the Old Testament and New Testament how do we get them and New Testament how do we get them and New Testament how do we get them introduced to basic hermeneutics and introduced to basic hermeneutics and introduced to basic hermeneutics and whatever we realized if we try to do whatever we realized if we try to do whatever we realized if we try to do that strictly through community group that strictly through community group that strictly through community group curricula there you know it's just very curricula there you know it's just very curricula there you know it's just very limited we have to do some seminar limited we have to do some seminar limited we have to do some seminar teaching so so how do we start throwing teaching so so how do we start throwing teaching so so how do we start throwing those courses out there without it those courses out there without it those courses out there without it muddying the waters and now it sounds muddying the waters and now it sounds muddying the waters and now it sounds like 14 asks so what we've done is we've

like 14 asks so what we've done is we've like 14 asks so what we've done is we've taken all those seminar type courses taken all those seminar type courses taken all those seminar type courses that we're teaching you know biblical that we're teaching you know biblical that we're teaching you know biblical parenting evangelism training all that parenting evangelism training all that parenting evangelism training all that stuff and we put it in a fourth category stuff and we put it in a fourth category stuff and we put it in a fourth category we just call training and ask people we just call training and ask people we just call training and ask people basically operate in a three semester a basically operate in a three semester a basically operate in a three semester a year you know it's fall then there's year you know it's fall then there's year you know it's fall then there's winter and then there's spring you know winter and then there's spring you know winter and then there's spring you know summer one of those semesters do one summer one of those semesters do one summer one of those semesters do one thing training wise okay come on the thing training wise okay come on the thing training wise okay come on the weekend invited place to serve get in weekend invited place to serve get in weekend invited place to serve get in the community group but fourthly do the community group but fourthly do the community group but fourthly do something by way of training so coming something by way of training so coming something by way of training so coming up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg of our stool if you woods been really of our stool if you woods been really of our stool if you woods been really helpful it's been a way to organize helpful it's been a way to organize helpful it's been a way to organize stuff so again it doesn't sound like stuff so again it doesn't sound like stuff so again it doesn't sound like we're asking you know 14 17 things have we're asking you know 14 17 things have we're asking you know 14 17 things have you grass or basic things but that last you grass or basic things but that last you grass or basic things but that last catch-all category helps us to hit on catch-all category helps us to hit on catch-all category helps us to hit on all the important training stuff very all the important training stuff very all the important training stuff very cool well this has been fantastic Jim if cool well this has been fantastic Jim if cool well this has been fantastic Jim if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that you with the church how can they do that you with the church how can they do that you know feel free to email me at JL know feel free to email me at JL know feel free to email me at JL Nicodemo de el Nico de m at ccc life org Nicodemo de el Nico de m at ccc life org Nicodemo de el Nico de m at ccc life org I'd be happy to to respond rich nice I'd be happy to to respond rich nice I'd be happy to to respond rich nice thanks so much Jim I appreciate be on thanks so much Jim I appreciate be on thanks so much Jim I appreciate be on the show today thank you rich it's been the show today thank you rich it's been the show today thank you rich it's been a joy talking a joy talking a joy talking thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and you can sign up at unsummon re calm and you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you

members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at uncie Maneri com don't forget to check uncie Maneri com don't forget to check uncie Maneri com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri calm it includes links to unset Maneri calm it includes links to unset Maneri calm it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung nari podcast join us next week unsung nari podcast join us next week unsung nari podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary today's on seminary taught in seminary today's on seminary taught in seminary today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by podcast episode is brought to you by podcast episode is brought to you by Regal theater Church the only theatre Regal theater Church the only theatre Regal theater Church the only theatre company providing full-service company providing full-service company providing full-service consultation for churches wanting to consultation for churches wanting to consultation for churches wanting to create dynamic worship services in create dynamic worship services in create dynamic worship services in familiar culturally relevant venues the familiar culturally relevant venues the familiar culturally relevant venues the local movie theater with lots of parking local movie theater with lots of parking local movie theater with lots of parking spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view of the screen from a a perfect view of the screen from a a perfect view of the screen from a comfortable seat regal theaters are comfortable seat regal theaters are comfortable seat regal theaters are ideal for Church plants and multi sites ideal for Church plants and multi sites ideal for Church plants and multi sites learn more at Regal theater Church comm learn more at Regal theater Church comm learn more at Regal theater Church comm or call their incredible team at one or call their incredible team at one or call their incredible team at one eight hundred seven nine two eight two eight hundred seven nine two eight two eight hundred seven nine two eight two four four today four four today four four today welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast hey this week's on seminary podcast hey this week's on seminary podcast hey everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy podcast my name's rich the host around podcast my name's rich the host around podcast my name's rich the host around these parts I am so glad that you've these parts I am so glad that you've these parts I am so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today decided to spend some time with us today decided to spend some time with us today honored really I know things are really

honored really I know things are really honored really I know things are really busy at your church you've got a lot busy at your church you've got a lot busy at your church you've got a lot going in on this week as we get ready going in on this week as we get ready going in on this week as we get ready for this weekend and so we're just for this weekend and so we're just for this weekend and so we're just honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time and papas in your earbuds to listen in and papas in your earbuds to listen in and papas in your earbuds to listen in on today's conversation today it's our on today's conversation today it's our on today's conversation today it's our privilege to have Jim nickel dean with privilege to have Jim nickel dean with privilege to have Jim nickel dean with us from Christ Community Church it's a us from Christ Community Church it's a us from Christ Community Church it's a great church leader great Church Jim great church leader great Church Jim great church leader great Church Jim welcome to the show thanks rich it is welcome to the show thanks rich it is welcome to the show thanks rich it is good to be with you yeah for folks that good to be with you yeah for folks that good to be with you yeah for folks that don't know Jim was actually the founder don't know Jim was actually the founder don't know Jim was actually the founder of this church a few years ago of this church a few years ago of this church a few years ago back in the mid-80s when he was three back in the mid-80s when he was three back in the mid-80s when he was three years old and so it's a great Church years old and so it's a great Church years old and so it's a great Church about 5,000 people four locations in the about 5,000 people four locations in the about 5,000 people four locations in the greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't greater Chicagoland area Jim why don't we start by you kind of giving us a we start by you kind of giving us a we start by you kind of giving us a flavor for your Turks tell us about flavor for your Turks tell us about flavor for your Turks tell us about Christ's community you know we like to Christ's community you know we like to Christ's community you know we like to describe ourselves rich as a secret describe ourselves rich as a secret describe ourselves rich as a secret church with depth so that's our church with depth so that's our church with depth so that's our unofficial motto is house cheeky to say unofficial motto is house cheeky to say unofficial motto is house cheeky to say don't put it on our literature but we don't put it on our literature but we don't put it on our literature but we come out of a willow a sort of come out of a willow a sort of come out of a willow a sort of background our roots go back to close background our roots go back to close background our roots go back to close connection with Willow Creek strategy of connection with Willow Creek strategy of connection with Willow Creek strategy of attracting people who are spiritually attracting people who are spiritually attracting people who are spiritually lost but at the same time my passion is lost but at the same time my passion is lost but at the same time my passion is for teaching God's Word I've got a for teaching God's Word I've got a for teaching God's Word I've got a biblical studies undergrad degree and biblical studies undergrad degree and biblical studies undergrad degree and then a master's and a doctorate and then a master's and a doctorate and then a master's and a doctorate and hermeneutics and and what I'm really hermeneutics and and what I'm really hermeneutics and and what I'm really passionate about people getting roots passionate about people getting roots passionate about people getting roots down into God's words so we want to take down into God's words so we want to take down into God's words so we want to take them somewhere once we lead them to them somewhere once we lead them to them somewhere once we lead them to Christ so it's the general flavor of who Christ so it's the general flavor of who Christ so it's the general flavor of who we are okay very cool now for people we are okay very cool now for people we are okay very cool now for people that may be listening in they may think that may be listening in they may think that may be listening in they may think that those are an apparent contradiction that those are an apparent contradiction that those are an apparent contradiction being both kind of attraction 'el and

being both kind of attraction 'el and being both kind of attraction 'el and really identifying you know with a really identifying you know with a really identifying you know with a movement like Willow Creek but then at movement like Willow Creek but then at movement like Willow Creek but then at the same time trying to have a high the same time trying to have a high the same time trying to have a high highvolt you know kind of desire to highvolt you know kind of desire to highvolt you know kind of desire to disciple people how is that possible how disciple people how is that possible how disciple people how is that possible how is it that you're doing that at your is it that you're doing that at your is it that you're doing that at your church yeah that's you know it's a great church yeah that's you know it's a great church yeah that's you know it's a great question and and we have felt sometimes question and and we have felt sometimes question and and we have felt sometimes like like a fish out of water you go to like like a fish out of water you go to like like a fish out of water you go to some conferences that are all about some conferences that are all about some conferences that are all about attraction ulm Ennis tree so if you're attraction ulm Ennis tree so if you're attraction ulm Ennis tree so if you're at willow you're at North Point you're at willow you're at North Point you're at willow you're at North Point you're you're passionate about reaching the you're passionate about reaching the you're passionate about reaching the loss but you're sitting there thinking loss but you're sitting there thinking loss but you're sitting there thinking wow I wish I heard some stuff that was wow I wish I heard some stuff that was wow I wish I heard some stuff that was theologically just a little deeper theologically just a little deeper theologically just a little deeper stretching me in that area some gospel stretching me in that area some gospel stretching me in that area some gospel coalition you go to a John Piper coalition you go to a John Piper coalition you go to a John Piper conference and you're inviting that conference and you're inviting that conference and you're inviting that stuff but you're thinking to yourself stuff but you're thinking to yourself stuff but you're thinking to yourself wow I wish there was a passion for wow I wish there was a passion for wow I wish there was a passion for reaching lost people I had a third being reaching lost people I had a third being reaching lost people I had a third being the boys and you you kind of feel caught the boys and you you kind of feel caught the boys and you you kind of feel caught between two worlds and we just found between two worlds and we just found between two worlds and we just found that you can do both so you know for that you can do both so you know for that you can do both so you know for example on the attraction I'll say we've example on the attraction I'll say we've example on the attraction I'll say we've just come through a very busy December just come through a very busy December just come through a very busy December at the beginning of the month we do an at the beginning of the month we do an at the beginning of the month we do an outreach at the end of the month we do outreach at the end of the month we do outreach at the end of the month we do Christmas Eve services like everybody Christmas Eve services like everybody Christmas Eve services like everybody else from an attraction 'el standpoint else from an attraction 'el standpoint else from an attraction 'el standpoint we had about a hundred and seventy some we had about a hundred and seventy some we had about a hundred and seventy some people come to Christ Wow people come to Christ Wow people come to Christ Wow amazing december and for us i mean we amazing december and for us i mean we amazing december and for us i mean we don't count people who just raise a hand don't count people who just raise a hand don't count people who just raise a hand or stand on their feet or stand on their feet or stand on their feet unless they're willing to go to our unless they're willing to go to our unless they're willing to go to our welcome center at one of our four welcome center at one of our four welcome center at one of our four campuses and pick up next step packet as campuses and pick up next step packet as campuses and pick up next step packet as a sign of their determination to follow a sign of their determination to follow a sign of their determination to follow christ you know we don't count so in one christ you know we don't count so in one christ you know we don't count so in one of our campuses during invitations that of our campuses during invitations that of our campuses during invitations that were given during the Christmas Eve were given during the Christmas Eve were given during the Christmas Eve services seventy some people stood Wow

services seventy some people stood Wow services seventy some people stood Wow three or four people picked up next three or four people picked up next three or four people picked up next steps packets so hang but I say we had a steps packets so hang but I say we had a steps packets so hang but I say we had a hundred and seventy come to Christ hundred and seventy come to Christ hundred and seventy come to Christ that's only the next steps packet so that's only the next steps packet so that's only the next steps packet so we're highly attraction 'el but again in we're highly attraction 'el but again in we're highly attraction 'el but again in our ministry we are we're rabid about de our ministry we are we're rabid about de our ministry we are we're rabid about de cycling people and getting their rooms cycling people and getting their rooms cycling people and getting their rooms down in into God's Word down in into God's Word down in into God's Word hmm interesting you know I think there's hmm interesting you know I think there's hmm interesting you know I think there's I think there's a growing trend of what I think there's a growing trend of what I think there's a growing trend of what your churches has tapped into I think your churches has tapped into I think your churches has tapped into I think there was a false dichotomy at one point there was a false dichotomy at one point there was a false dichotomy at one point between those two obviously you set that between those two obviously you set that between those two obviously you set that up as a yes an interesting conversation up as a yes an interesting conversation up as a yes an interesting conversation but I think as we're seeing churches but I think as we're seeing churches but I think as we're seeing churches that are growing they really are trying that are growing they really are trying that are growing they really are trying to do both and do them well the thing I to do both and do them well the thing I to do both and do them well the thing I love about Christ community is you seem love about Christ community is you seem love about Christ community is you seem to have you know found some things that to have you know found some things that to have you know found some things that are working in your context so clearly are working in your context so clearly are working in your context so clearly your church is growing you're reaching your church is growing you're reaching your church is growing you're reaching people you know how do you do the big D people you know how do you do the big D people you know how do you do the big D word discipleship what does that look word discipleship what does that look word discipleship what does that look like at your church good now let me like at your church good now let me like at your church good now let me start let me start with the most start let me start with the most start let me start with the most prominent part the the tip of the prominent part the the tip of the prominent part the the tip of the iceberg that everybody sees at the iceberg that everybody sees at the iceberg that everybody sees at the weekend service that's the preaching yes weekend service that's the preaching yes weekend service that's the preaching yes so from a preaching standpoint again so from a preaching standpoint again so from a preaching standpoint again working on a hybrid model we we look out working on a hybrid model we we look out working on a hybrid model we we look out there there there are those who are big there there there are those who are big there there there are those who are big advocates of topical teaching so if you advocates of topical teaching so if you advocates of topical teaching so if you teach topically you tend to attract a teach topically you tend to attract a teach topically you tend to attract a crowd that has come for the topic crowd that has come for the topic crowd that has come for the topic whatever it is it's a parenting series whatever it is it's a parenting series whatever it is it's a parenting series it's it's a marriage series whatever I'm it's it's a marriage series whatever I'm it's it's a marriage series whatever I'm the other hand there are those who are the other hand there are those who are the other hand there are those who are real advocates of expositional teaching real advocates of expositional teaching real advocates of expositional teaching a we're going through the book of James a we're going through the book of James a we're going through the book of James you know and we're doing verse by verse you know and we're doing verse by verse you know and we're doing verse by verse by verse we try to blend the two and so by verse we try to blend the two and so by verse we try to blend the two and so so we approach things probably eighty so we approach things probably eighty so we approach things probably eighty percent of the time from a topical percent of the time from a topical percent of the time from a topical standpoint but every message that we

standpoint but every message that we standpoint but every message that we preach here is rooted in one single text preach here is rooted in one single text preach here is rooted in one single text so we don't jump around proof texting so we don't jump around proof texting so we don't jump around proof texting this week in perfect example we're doing this week in perfect example we're doing this week in perfect example we're doing a series called back to plan a God's a series called back to plan a God's a series called back to plan a God's countercultural wisdom so we're looking countercultural wisdom so we're looking countercultural wisdom so we're looking at issues where our culture has drifted at issues where our culture has drifted at issues where our culture has drifted away from judeo-christian away from judeo-christian away from judeo-christian roat's values and we're calling our roat's values and we're calling our roat's values and we're calling our people back to those you know those people back to those you know those people back to those you know those those biblical values so we're hitting those biblical values so we're hitting those biblical values so we're hitting on a variety of topics we're hitting on on a variety of topics we're hitting on on a variety of topics we're hitting on racism on Martin Luther King jr. weekend racism on Martin Luther King jr. weekend racism on Martin Luther King jr. weekend work and at the end a sanctity of life work and at the end a sanctity of life work and at the end a sanctity of life we're doing something on abortion and so we're doing something on abortion and so we're doing something on abortion and so but every time we hit on a topic we draw but every time we hit on a topic we draw but every time we hit on a topic we draw from one particular text so this weekend from one particular text so this weekend from one particular text so this weekend the topic is materialism I'm preaching the topic is materialism I'm preaching the topic is materialism I'm preaching through a segment of first Timothy 6 our through a segment of first Timothy 6 our through a segment of first Timothy 6 our goal is not only to teach people within goal is not only to teach people within goal is not only to teach people within the text topically so those who are the text topically so those who are the text topically so those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are unfamiliar with the Bible those who are seeking exploring the faith feel like seeking exploring the faith feel like seeking exploring the faith feel like they're being pulled in love we're also they're being pulled in love we're also they're being pulled in love we're also teaching people how to work through a teaching people how to work through a teaching people how to work through a segment of Scripture so matter than segment of Scripture so matter than segment of Scripture so matter than being oppressed with me at the end of being oppressed with me at the end of being oppressed with me at the end of the sermon like wow that guy he brought the sermon like wow that guy he brought the sermon like wow that guy he brought me here they're everywhere around the me here they're everywhere around the me here they're everywhere around the Bible from all I did is walk him through Bible from all I did is walk him through Bible from all I did is walk him through one text and they're able to see oh that one text and they're able to see oh that one text and they're able to see oh that spoke to me I can do this I could go spoke to me I can do this I could go spoke to me I can do this I could go home open a Bible read a passage where home open a Bible read a passage where home open a Bible read a passage where you know we're just teaching basic rules you know we're just teaching basic rules you know we're just teaching basic rules of how to study verses within their of how to study verses within their of how to study verses within their context and so so you know that's the context and so so you know that's the context and so so you know that's the blend that's the hybrid doing text blend that's the hybrid doing text blend that's the hybrid doing text topical teaching that's that's very topical teaching that's that's very topical teaching that's that's very interesting I love that now are you do interesting I love that now are you do interesting I love that now are you do is there kind of a time of year that you

is there kind of a time of year that you is there kind of a time of year that you will then actually take out and say will then actually take out and say will then actually take out and say we're actually going to go through this we're actually going to go through this we're actually going to go through this book we're gonna take you know you or book we're gonna take you know you or book we're gonna take you know you or we're gonna follow this narrative do you we're gonna follow this narrative do you we're gonna follow this narrative do you do that as well when you blend it is do that as well when you blend it is do that as well when you blend it is that kind of what you're doing we will that kind of what you're doing we will that kind of what you're doing we will do maybe 20% of the time we will do a do maybe 20% of the time we will do a do maybe 20% of the time we will do a more purely walkthrough a segment of more purely walkthrough a segment of more purely walkthrough a segment of scriptures so an example of that is in scriptures so an example of that is in scriptures so an example of that is in late November and in the month of late November and in the month of late November and in the month of December we did a series in Hebrews but December we did a series in Hebrews but December we did a series in Hebrews but we treated it topically we called it a we treated it topically we called it a we treated it topically we called it a picture perfect images of Jesus in the picture perfect images of Jesus in the picture perfect images of Jesus in the book of Hebrews and so you know you're book of Hebrews and so you know you're book of Hebrews and so you know you're familiar with Hebrews we spent a week familiar with Hebrews we spent a week familiar with Hebrews we spent a week talking about Jesus as exalted above talking about Jesus as exalted above talking about Jesus as exalted above angels we talked to Jesus as the high angels we talked to Jesus as the high angels we talked to Jesus as the high priest we talked about Jesus as the priest we talked about Jesus as the priest we talked about Jesus as the perfect sacrifice we talked about just perfect sacrifice we talked about just perfect sacrifice we talked about just as the Sabbath rest so you know we walk as the Sabbath rest so you know we walk as the Sabbath rest so you know we walk through large segments of Hebrews during through large segments of Hebrews during through large segments of Hebrews during the course of that series but it was the course of that series but it was the course of that series but it was treated kind of topically because of the treated kind of topically because of the treated kind of topically because of the way we approached it from week to week way we approached it from week to week way we approached it from week to week we'll do the same thing leading up to we'll do the same thing leading up to we'll do the same thing leading up to Easter will sometimes say okay we're Easter will sometimes say okay we're Easter will sometimes say okay we're gonna walk through the chapters in math gonna walk through the chapters in math gonna walk through the chapters in math you know passion week beginning and you know passion week beginning and you know passion week beginning and we're gonna do a five or six week series we're gonna do a five or six week series we're gonna do a five or six week series on it so those are the kinds of of on it so those are the kinds of of on it so those are the kinds of of textual series more purely textual that textual series more purely textual that textual series more purely textual that we'll do sometimes very cool so you we'll do sometimes very cool so you we'll do sometimes very cool so you mentioned that is one piece of the mentioned that is one piece of the mentioned that is one piece of the discipleship puzzle I appreciate you discipleship puzzle I appreciate you discipleship puzzle I appreciate you starting there because I think a lot of starting there because I think a lot of starting there because I think a lot of times we just take that for granted times we just take that for granted times we just take that for granted other pieces of the discipleship puzzle other pieces of the discipleship puzzle other pieces of the discipleship puzzle at your church at your church at your church yeah worship so I'm still parking on the yeah worship so I'm still parking on the yeah worship so I'm still parking on the southern service that is the you know southern service that is the you know southern service that is the you know the main point of contact that people the main point of contact that people the main point of contact that people have with her and again we just work on have with her and again we just work on have with her and again we just work on a hybrid model so my experience of

a hybrid model so my experience of a hybrid model so my experience of contemporary worship as I go into contemporary worship as I go into contemporary worship as I go into churches around the country in in many churches around the country in in many churches around the country in in many places contemporary worship means high places contemporary worship means high places contemporary worship means high energy it gets a killer band it's three energy it gets a killer band it's three energy it gets a killer band it's three to four numbers facing the roof back to to four numbers facing the roof back to to four numbers facing the roof back to back and just a paint off the walls melt back and just a paint off the walls melt back and just a paint off the walls melt your face and I am rich I love music I your face and I am rich I love music I your face and I am rich I love music I love that kind of worship but the love that kind of worship but the love that kind of worship but the flipside at the other end of the flipside at the other end of the flipside at the other end of the spectrum a more liturgical worship you spectrum a more liturgical worship you spectrum a more liturgical worship you know you go into a church that's got know you go into a church that's got know you go into a church that's got liturgy and there are creeps and there liturgy and there are creeps and there liturgy and there are creeps and there are can you know times of silence times are can you know times of silence times are can you know times of silence times when sin is being confessed there's when sin is being confessed there's when sin is being confessed there's readings of scripture that are done readings of scripture that are done readings of scripture that are done antiphonal II and so and so yeah antiphonal II and so and so yeah antiphonal II and so and so yeah seriously when I get away from Christ seriously when I get away from Christ seriously when I get away from Christ community I gravitate toward a local community I gravitate toward a local community I gravitate toward a local Anglican Church that's very evangelical Anglican Church that's very evangelical Anglican Church that's very evangelical because it's so different so you know because it's so different so you know because it's so different so you know probably three four years ago I was probably three four years ago I was probably three four years ago I was wondering why can't we do a little bit wondering why can't we do a little bit wondering why can't we do a little bit of both why can't we bring more of the of both why can't we bring more of the of both why can't we bring more of the depth that you'll feel analytical depth that you'll feel analytical depth that you'll feel analytical worship into our contemporary worship worship into our contemporary worship worship into our contemporary worship and blend the two together so there you and blend the two together so there you and blend the two together so there you know there are people around the country know there are people around the country know there are people around the country that are trying to do this and I've gone that are trying to do this and I've gone that are trying to do this and I've gone to school on one of those guys Glenn PAC to school on one of those guys Glenn PAC to school on one of those guys Glenn PAC iam whose worship leader out at new life iam whose worship leader out at new life iam whose worship leader out at new life in Colorado in a Tegrity artist got a in Colorado in a Tegrity artist got a in Colorado in a Tegrity artist got a band cooking band whatever but he's now band cooking band whatever but he's now band cooking band whatever but he's now leading a worship service it's largely leading a worship service it's largely leading a worship service it's largely liturgical so the dude knows how to liturgical so the dude knows how to liturgical so the dude knows how to blend the two and so I've gone to school blend the two and so I've gone to school blend the two and so I've gone to school on Glenn and on other sin one of the on Glenn and on other sin one of the on Glenn and on other sin one of the things Glenn teaches is that is that things Glenn teaches is that is that things Glenn teaches is that is that worship is not just a faith expressing

worship is not just a faith expressing worship is not just a faith expressing activity but it's also a faith shaping activity but it's also a faith shaping activity but it's also a faith shaping activity bunch of contemporary worship activity bunch of contemporary worship activity bunch of contemporary worship it's all about expressing tells hands it's all about expressing tells hands it's all about expressing tells hands lifted out airing yes again raised to lifted out airing yes again raised to lifted out airing yes again raised to the the the yeah in liturgical it tends to be yeah in liturgical it tends to be yeah in liturgical it tends to be shaping we're doing these repetitious shaping we're doing these repetitious shaping we're doing these repetitious things because we're shake its things because we're shake its things because we're shake its constituent components of the surface so constituent components of the surface so constituent components of the surface so you know one of the first things we did you know one of the first things we did you know one of the first things we did in that regard is we moved a teaching in that regard is we moved a teaching in that regard is we moved a teaching pastor on to the worship planning team pastor on to the worship planning team pastor on to the worship planning team okay okay okay initially it rocks the boat a little bit initially it rocks the boat a little bit initially it rocks the boat a little bit worship leaders are like well you don't worship leaders are like well you don't worship leaders are like well you don't trust us you don't have skinny jeans you trust us you don't have skinny jeans you trust us you don't have skinny jeans you can't be there no so so it's you know can't be there no so so it's you know can't be there no so so it's you know it's bringing a teaching pastors mindset it's bringing a teaching pastors mindset it's bringing a teaching pastors mindset saying you know this is not just going saying you know this is not just going saying you know this is not just going to be a rah-rah worship it's going to be to be a rah-rah worship it's going to be to be a rah-rah worship it's going to be something where we're thinking from a something where we're thinking from a something where we're thinking from a teaching standpoint of how we're shaping teaching standpoint of how we're shaping teaching standpoint of how we're shaping people's faith it means screening songs people's faith it means screening songs people's faith it means screening songs so we're not doing stuff that's so we're not doing stuff that's so we're not doing stuff that's theologically you know just drivel it theologically you know just drivel it theologically you know just drivel it means being willing to live with low means being willing to live with low means being willing to live with low energy moments during the worship so you energy moments during the worship so you energy moments during the worship so you know and again initially the band that know and again initially the band that know and again initially the band that was so hard for them it's like whoa you was so hard for them it's like whoa you was so hard for them it's like whoa you just you pulled everything grounded to a just you pulled everything grounded to a just you pulled everything grounded to a halt we had things cooking and now halt we had things cooking and now halt we had things cooking and now you're stopping for a quiet moment of you're stopping for a quiet moment of you're stopping for a quiet moment of confessional prayer when you've got to confessional prayer when you've got to confessional prayer when you've got to get everybody used to the fact that yeah get everybody used to the fact that yeah get everybody used to the fact that yeah there's gonna be some stop that start there's gonna be some stop that start there's gonna be some stop that start sort of thing sort of thing sort of thing thanks going on its it means organizing thanks going on its it means organizing thanks going on its it means organizing the worship around a theme a theme that the worship around a theme a theme that the worship around a theme a theme that fits possibly with the sermon of the day fits possibly with the sermon of the day fits possibly with the sermon of the day sometimes our theme is just the gospel sometimes our theme is just the gospel sometimes our theme is just the gospel our worship follows the creation fall

our worship follows the creation fall our worship follows the creation fall rest redemption restoration outline of rest redemption restoration outline of rest redemption restoration outline of the gospel so that's another way we're the gospel so that's another way we're the gospel so that's another way we're trying to deepen people and their trying to deepen people and their trying to deepen people and their commitment to Christ make disciples out commitment to Christ make disciples out commitment to Christ make disciples out of them it's through worship that has of them it's through worship that has of them it's through worship that has got some depth to it got some depth to it got some depth to it mmm very cool very cool I love what mmm very cool very cool I love what mmm very cool very cool I love what you're saying there I think sometimes you're saying there I think sometimes you're saying there I think sometimes again using a straw man I don't think again using a straw man I don't think again using a straw man I don't think this actually exists I think sometimes I this actually exists I think sometimes I this actually exists I think sometimes I listen I've spent you know my ministry listen I've spent you know my ministry listen I've spent you know my ministry career in a tractional Church that's career in a tractional Church that's career in a tractional Church that's what I've done that's been my life's what I've done that's been my life's what I've done that's been my life's work and I I think we can sometimes work and I I think we can sometimes work and I I think we can sometimes again strawman be like well the music is again strawman be like well the music is again strawman be like well the music is all it needs to do is get people's all it needs to do is get people's all it needs to do is get people's attention it's like that you know and attention it's like that you know and attention it's like that you know and that's you know what I love that you're that's you know what I love that you're that's you know what I love that you're doing is pushing you're asking a deeper doing is pushing you're asking a deeper doing is pushing you're asking a deeper question and saying hey how can we use question and saying hey how can we use question and saying hey how can we use this actually as a forming process what this actually as a forming process what this actually as a forming process what are you doing to think through the are you doing to think through the are you doing to think through the discipleship piece at your church you discipleship piece at your church you discipleship piece at your church you know probably the most obvious one and know probably the most obvious one and know probably the most obvious one and and I'm sure you know everybody and I'm sure you know everybody and I'm sure you know everybody listening to us is in church we're listening to us is in church we're listening to us is in church we're doing the same thing it's the usek of doing the same thing it's the usek of doing the same thing it's the usek of small groups we call unity groups 75 to small groups we call unity groups 75 to small groups we call unity groups 75 to 80 percent of our weekend attenders are 80 percent of our weekend attenders are 80 percent of our weekend attenders are involved in a community Wow so credible involved in a community Wow so credible involved in a community Wow so credible it's it's a huge figure for us and it's it's it's a huge figure for us and it's it's it's a huge figure for us and it's a statistic that we we work hard to yeah a statistic that we we work hard to yeah a statistic that we we work hard to yeah absolutely that's incredible so one of absolutely that's incredible so one of absolutely that's incredible so one of the things that's helped us in that the things that's helped us in that the things that's helped us in that regard is and we picked this up from regard is and we picked this up from regard is and we picked this up from Greg Hopkins book move so yeah Greg was Greg Hopkins book move so yeah Greg was Greg Hopkins book move so yeah Greg was the executive pastor at willow for years the executive pastor at willow for years the executive pastor at willow for years and he they did that whole reveal study and he they did that whole reveal study and he they did that whole reveal study that they were taking people to depth in that they were taking people to depth in that they were taking people to depth in faith and so what what some people may

faith and so what what some people may faith and so what what some people may not be aware of is that subsequent to not be aware of is that subsequent to not be aware of is that subsequent to reveal Greg did a study of a thousand reveal Greg did a study of a thousand reveal Greg did a study of a thousand churches that were making it happen churches that were making it happen churches that were making it happen discipleship happened to find out what discipleship happened to find out what discipleship happened to find out what are they doing what what is successfully are they doing what what is successfully are they doing what what is successfully going on in these churches and one of going on in these churches and one of going on in these churches and one of the things he discovered is that they the things he discovered is that they the things he discovered is that they have a clear path of discipleship and have a clear path of discipleship and have a clear path of discipleship and it's not so important down the road a it's not so important down the road a it's not so important down the road a little you know a little distance we're little you know a little distance we're little you know a little distance we're people options but initially the first people options but initially the first people options but initially the first two or three steps got to be clearly two or three steps got to be clearly two or three steps got to be clearly spelled out there has clear on-ramp for spelled out there has clear on-ramp for spelled out there has clear on-ramp for how people get started and so for us how people get started and so for us how people get started and so for us before we get people into groups there's before we get people into groups there's before we get people into groups there's three on on ramps and depending on what three on on ramps and depending on what three on on ramps and depending on what condition you come spiritually to our condition you come spiritually to our condition you come spiritually to our church you'll choose one of those so if church you'll choose one of those so if church you'll choose one of those so if you're exploring the faith your on-ramp you're exploring the faith your on-ramp you're exploring the faith your on-ramp is alpha know I want to get you into is alpha know I want to get you into is alpha know I want to get you into alpha find out about what Christianity alpha find out about what Christianity alpha find out about what Christianity is you know is all about if you come to is you know is all about if you come to is you know is all about if you come to us and you're just making your faith us and you're just making your faith us and you're just making your faith decision you've come search you you know decision you've come search you you know decision you've come search you you know you've picked up a next steps packet now you've picked up a next steps packet now you've picked up a next steps packet now you believer we want to get you in the you believer we want to get you in the you believer we want to get you in the next next steps class so it's a class next next steps class so it's a class next next steps class so it's a class that's your on-ramp if you're coming to that's your on-ramp if you're coming to that's your on-ramp if you're coming to our church because you just moved from our church because you just moved from our church because you just moved from San Diego and you're Christ follower and San Diego and you're Christ follower and San Diego and you're Christ follower and you're coming from an evangelical church you're coming from an evangelical church you're coming from an evangelical church we've got a course called begin to we've got a course called begin to we've got a course called begin to belong hmm and so so we've got clearly belong hmm and so so we've got clearly belong hmm and so so we've got clearly marked on ramps depending on where marked on ramps depending on where marked on ramps depending on where you're at in your spiritual journey you're at in your spiritual journey you're at in your spiritual journey perfect get involved and then after that perfect get involved and then after that perfect get involved and then after that it's community groups we get you in a it's community groups we get you in a it's community groups we get you in a group I think the important thing to group I think the important thing to group I think the important thing to underline there for people is and we've underline there for people is and we've underline there for people is and we've seen this time and time again we've seen this time and time again we've seen this time and time again we've taken kind of a focus on seminary taken kind of a focus on seminary taken kind of a focus on seminary talking with churches you know

talking with churches you know talking with churches you know fast-growing churches that are doing a fast-growing churches that are doing a fast-growing churches that are doing a good job integrating things good job integrating things good job integrating things people and time and time again the thing people and time and time again the thing people and time and time again the thing that comes back is clear and obvious that comes back is clear and obvious that comes back is clear and obvious particularly first steps yes do you not particularly first steps yes do you not particularly first steps yes do you not that has to be so obvious so strategic that has to be so obvious so strategic that has to be so obvious so strategic absolutely you can't have here's ten absolutely you can't have here's ten absolutely you can't have here's ten different things there was a time in different things there was a time in different things there was a time in ministry where it was great to brag ministry where it was great to brag ministry where it was great to brag we've got 101 ministries this that day we've got 101 ministries this that day we've got 101 ministries this that day is done we've got to have very very is done we've got to have very very is done we've got to have very very clear steps I love if you don't very clear steps I love if you don't very clear steps I love if you don't very quickly you went through there and quickly you went through there and quickly you went through there and described it you know really everyone described it you know really everyone described it you know really everyone who could potentially ever come to your who could potentially ever come to your who could potentially ever come to your church and said here's three places you church and said here's three places you church and said here's three places you could go to if you can't do that church could go to if you can't do that church could go to if you can't do that church leaders that's something you need to leaders that's something you need to leaders that's something you need to work on for sure now the actual work on for sure now the actual work on for sure now the actual community group experience when people community group experience when people community group experience when people land there what does that look like at land there what does that look like at land there what does that look like at your church but yeah here are several your church but yeah here are several your church but yeah here are several ways we're trying to make sure that ways we're trying to make sure that ways we're trying to make sure that depth happens that discipleship happens depth happens that discipleship happens depth happens that discipleship happens one is we ask our groups at least every one is we ask our groups at least every one is we ask our groups at least every other study it needs to be a book study other study it needs to be a book study other study it needs to be a book study of Scripture so it's so easy to of Scripture so it's so easy to of Scripture so it's so easy to gravitate toward topical studies and you gravitate toward topical studies and you gravitate toward topical studies and you know sometimes there's depth to them know sometimes there's depth to them know sometimes there's depth to them sometimes there's not depth to them you sometimes there's not depth to them you sometimes there's not depth to them you know we operate on a free-market system know we operate on a free-market system know we operate on a free-market system so we allow our groups to pick and so we allow our groups to pick and so we allow our groups to pick and choose their curriculum but every other choose their curriculum but every other choose their curriculum but every other one is got to be hey we're going through one is got to be hey we're going through one is got to be hey we're going through the book of Proverbs or hey a study in the book of Proverbs or hey a study in the book of Proverbs or hey a study in the life of David and in you know in 1st the life of David and in you know in 1st the life of David and in you know in 1st and 2nd samuel something like that then and 2nd samuel something like that then and 2nd samuel something like that then secondly even the free market secondly even the free market secondly even the free market opportunities they have we try to guide opportunities they have we try to guide opportunities they have we try to guide them in the choice of their curriculums them in the choice of their curriculums them in the choice of their curriculums so we sift through we filter through so we sift through we filter through so we sift through we filter through sorry this curriculum I know it's sorry this curriculum I know it's sorry this curriculum I know it's popular out there but no it's it's

popular out there but no it's it's popular out there but no it's it's cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth cheesy or it doesn't have biblical depth or whatever so we're kind of careful in or whatever so we're kind of careful in or whatever so we're kind of careful in what we people and then lastly we try to what we people and then lastly we try to what we people and then lastly we try to train our leaders really well and one of train our leaders really well and one of train our leaders really well and one of the things I've done in that regard the things I've done in that regard the things I've done in that regard Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote Ridge it's a couple of years ago I wrote a for book sequence for movie publishers a for book sequence for movie publishers a for book sequence for movie publishers Bible savvy he woke up to the Bible savvy he woke up to the Bible savvy he woke up to the realization we got over 300 small groups realization we got over 300 small groups realization we got over 300 small groups going out of here we're trusting the going out of here we're trusting the going out of here we're trusting the spiritual shepherding to these leaders spiritual shepherding to these leaders spiritual shepherding to these leaders what do we know about their Bible acumen what do we know about their Bible acumen what do we know about their Bible acumen or about their you know their their or about their you know their their or about their you know their their knowledge of Old Testament New Testament knowledge of Old Testament New Testament knowledge of Old Testament New Testament basic hermeneutics etc so I wrote this basic hermeneutics etc so I wrote this basic hermeneutics etc so I wrote this for book series specifically for for book series specifically for for book series specifically for community group leaders someone called community group leaders someone called community group leaders someone called epic covers the Bible storyline so epic covers the Bible storyline so epic covers the Bible storyline so Genisys revelation it's it's a real Genisys revelation it's it's a real Genisys revelation it's it's a real simple flow the plan of redemption simple flow the plan of redemption simple flow the plan of redemption through through Scripture second book is through through Scripture second book is through through Scripture second book is called Foundation and apologetic issues called Foundation and apologetic issues called Foundation and apologetic issues how do we know the Bible is credible how do we know the Bible is credible how do we know the Bible is credible it's it's kind of Lee Strobel ish a it's it's kind of Lee Strobel ish a it's it's kind of Lee Strobel ish a third book is called context and it third book is called context and it third book is called context and it deals with basic hermeneutics it's if deals with basic hermeneutics it's if deals with basic hermeneutics it's if you've read Gordon fees book how to read you've read Gordon fees book how to read you've read Gordon fees book how to read the Bible for all it's worth is this the Bible for all it's worth is this the Bible for all it's worth is this putting the cookies at an even lower putting the cookies at an even lower putting the cookies at an even lower level rather he said communiques and level rather he said communiques and level rather he said communiques and then the last book walk is how do you then the last book walk is how do you then the last book walk is how do you take what you've read and put it into take what you've read and put it into take what you've read and put it into practice and so those four books they're practice and so those four books they're practice and so those four books they're short books they're like four or five short books they're like four or five short books they're like four or five chapter books and we have had them bound chapter books and we have had them bound chapter books and we have had them bound moody's bound them in a four book set moody's bound them in a four book set moody's bound them in a four book set and we made sure every single one of our

and we made sure every single one of our and we made sure every single one of our leaders has them any of the groups leaders has them any of the groups leaders has them any of the groups decided that to use them as their decided that to use them as their decided that to use them as their curriculum again you know in the group curriculum again you know in the group curriculum again you know in the group study so just again another way ensuring study so just again another way ensuring study so just again another way ensuring that there's a quality of disciple Ingo that there's a quality of disciple Ingo that there's a quality of disciple Ingo anon again our small groups absolutely anon again our small groups absolutely anon again our small groups absolutely if people listen to the you know in if people listen to the you know in if people listen to the you know in seminary podcast they know I'm not the seminary podcast they know I'm not the seminary podcast they know I'm not the kind of guy that just brings people on kind of guy that just brings people on kind of guy that just brings people on all the time to sell books but the thing all the time to sell books but the thing all the time to sell books but the thing I do want you to do is to check out this I do want you to do is to check out this I do want you to do is to check out this resource I do think I know listen there resource I do think I know listen there resource I do think I know listen there are a lot of church leaders that listen are a lot of church leaders that listen are a lot of church leaders that listen in that are from attraction altar is in that are from attraction altar is in that are from attraction altar is that if we're honest we lie awake at that if we're honest we lie awake at that if we're honest we lie awake at night and think the exact same thing the night and think the exact same thing the night and think the exact same thing the same thing you were it realized with same thing you were it realized with same thing you were it realized with your church you're like man a lot of your church you're like man a lot of your church you're like man a lot of this rides on you know Frank and Susie this rides on you know Frank and Susie this rides on you know Frank and Susie and Bill and their ability to disciple and Bill and their ability to disciple and Bill and their ability to disciple people and I'm if I'm honest I don't people and I'm if I'm honest I don't people and I'm if I'm honest I don't really know how that's going I don't really know how that's going I don't really know how that's going I don't have a systematic way of saying hey what have a systematic way of saying hey what have a systematic way of saying hey what is it that they know and are they is it that they know and are they is it that they know and are they passing that on the thing I love about passing that on the thing I love about passing that on the thing I love about this resource is you know like you say this resource is you know like you say this resource is you know like you say you've put the cookies on the bottom you've put the cookies on the bottom you've put the cookies on the bottom shelf in a way that's accessible for shelf in a way that's accessible for shelf in a way that's accessible for folks that they then can turn around and folks that they then can turn around and folks that they then can turn around and lead you know with excellence so I would lead you know with excellence so I would lead you know with excellence so I would strongly recommend we'll put links in strongly recommend we'll put links in strongly recommend we'll put links in the show notes to how to get that and the show notes to how to get that and the show notes to how to get that and all that but I really would suggest you all that but I really would suggest you all that but I really would suggest you look in you know look into that for sure look in you know look into that for sure look in you know look into that for sure if you were to kind of talk to a church if you were to kind of talk to a church if you were to kind of talk to a church leader let's you know pivot a little bit leader let's you know pivot a little bit leader let's you know pivot a little bit a little bit of coaching you get a call a little bit of coaching you get a call a little bit of coaching you get a call from a church leader says listen I from a church leader says listen I from a church leader says listen I really do want to up our our really do want to up our our really do want to up our our discipleship game this year I I feel discipleship game this year I I feel discipleship game this year I I feel like we do a good job we've got 30% of like we do a good job we've got 30% of like we do a good job we've got 30% of our people it seems like every church I our people it seems like every church I our people it seems like every church I talk to they have 30 percent of their talk to they have 30 percent of their talk to they have 30 percent of their people in some sort of community group people in some sort of community group people in some sort of community group lifegroup I'm not happy with that I you lifegroup I'm not happy with that I you lifegroup I'm not happy with that I you know and the quality of those groups I

know and the quality of those groups I know and the quality of those groups I don't know like some are good some are don't know like some are good some are don't know like some are good some are not good not good not good where should I start to kind of up the where should I start to kind of up the where should I start to kind of up the discipleship game in this coming year at discipleship game in this coming year at discipleship game in this coming year at my church yeah yeah yeah you know I have my church yeah yeah yeah you know I have my church yeah yeah yeah you know I have some obvious biases but now yeah I'll some obvious biases but now yeah I'll some obvious biases but now yeah I'll just go back to some of the things I've just go back to some of the things I've just go back to some of the things I've already yeah he said rich yeah I'd say already yeah he said rich yeah I'd say already yeah he said rich yeah I'd say for a passenger it starts with your with for a passenger it starts with your with for a passenger it starts with your with your preaching yeah I you know if you your preaching yeah I you know if you your preaching yeah I you know if you want to whet people's appetite for God's want to whet people's appetite for God's want to whet people's appetite for God's Word then preach through one text even Word then preach through one text even Word then preach through one text even if you're a topical teacher even if you if you're a topical teacher even if you if you're a topical teacher even if you want to do an attraction on model and so want to do an attraction on model and so want to do an attraction on model and so you want to do topical series that draw you want to do topical series that draw you want to do topical series that draw in Outsiders determine that from week to in Outsiders determine that from week to in Outsiders determine that from week to week you're going to choose one chair week you're going to choose one chair week you're going to choose one chair text that you sit in so it accomplishes text that you sit in so it accomplishes text that you sit in so it accomplishes two things you teach the topic but you two things you teach the topic but you two things you teach the topic but you also teach people how to study the Bible also teach people how to study the Bible also teach people how to study the Bible you whet their appetite for want wanting you whet their appetite for want wanting you whet their appetite for want wanting to do it so I you know I think that's a to do it so I you know I think that's a to do it so I you know I think that's a huge huge way to begin role modeling you huge huge way to begin role modeling you huge huge way to begin role modeling you know it always comes back to the pastor know it always comes back to the pastor know it always comes back to the pastor having to be the poster child for having to be the poster child for having to be the poster child for whatever the value is so if you're gonna whatever the value is so if you're gonna whatever the value is so if you're gonna get people in into a community group get people in into a community group get people in into a community group into a small group you got to be leaking into a small group you got to be leaking into a small group you got to be leaking it all the time that you're in a group it all the time that you're in a group it all the time that you're in a group come on that's not true senior pastors come on that's not true senior pastors come on that's not true senior pastors don't have to be under just God he's don't have to be under just God he's don't have to be under just God he's like just huge you know one group after like just huge you know one group after like just huge you know one group after another over thirty years of ministry another over thirty years of ministry another over thirty years of ministry and I am passionate about disciple men and I am passionate about disciple men and I am passionate about disciple men and I love to be in a group that's and I love to be in a group that's and I love to be in a group that's always got one or two guys at least who always got one or two guys at least who always got one or two guys at least who are not yet they haven't crossed over are not yet they haven't crossed over are not yet they haven't crossed over the line they're not yet surrendered to the line they're not yet surrendered to the line they're not yet surrendered to Christ one or two guys who are new Christ one or two guys who are new Christ one or two guys who are new believers this is the first time they're believers this is the first time they're believers this is the first time they're cracking the Bible on a Bible so and

cracking the Bible on a Bible so and cracking the Bible on a Bible so and then and then that leaks into My then and then that leaks into My then and then that leaks into My servants through illustrations I'm servants through illustrations I'm servants through illustrations I'm referring to a community group and referring to a community group and referring to a community group and something that somebody shared in any something that somebody shared in any something that somebody shared in any way in that that stuff is caught as much way in that that stuff is caught as much way in that that stuff is caught as much as taught so you could beat the drum for as taught so you could beat the drum for as taught so you could beat the drum for community groups but unless you're you community groups but unless you're you community groups but unless you're you know you're demonstrating that you're know you're demonstrating that you're know you're demonstrating that you're involved yourself not going to be picked involved yourself not going to be picked involved yourself not going to be picked up that's a huge lesson I know there up that's a huge lesson I know there up that's a huge lesson I know there could be people there senior leaders could be people there senior leaders could be people there senior leaders today that have heard that before but today that have heard that before but today that have heard that before but I've seen that in action in time and I've seen that in action in time and I've seen that in action in time and time again when are you know when a time again when are you know when a time again when are you know when a senior leader gets up and they're not senior leader gets up and they're not senior leader gets up and they're not it's not in the once a year sermon it's not in the once a year sermon it's not in the once a year sermon around why you should be in a community around why you should be in a community around why you should be in a community group no no no it's not and then it's group no no no it's not and then it's group no no no it's not and then it's the sentences here in there hey this the sentences here in there hey this the sentences here in there hey this week we were out with our week we were out with our week we were out with our lifegroup and this is a question that lifegroup and this is a question that lifegroup and this is a question that came up wow that was amazing or I was came up wow that was amazing or I was came up wow that was amazing or I was talking to this guy in our community talking to this guy in our community talking to this guy in our community group and he asked this question and I'm group and he asked this question and I'm group and he asked this question and I'm excited about that or we went and served excited about that or we went and served excited about that or we went and served together at the soup kitchen and man together at the soup kitchen and man together at the soup kitchen and man that was such a great experience and let that was such a great experience and let that was such a great experience and let me tell you this funny thing that me tell you this funny thing that me tell you this funny thing that happened those small pieces drive people happened those small pieces drive people happened those small pieces drive people to think gosh maybe I should be a part to think gosh maybe I should be a part to think gosh maybe I should be a part of of one of those so yeah great this of of one of those so yeah great this of of one of those so yeah great this has been a great conversation I really has been a great conversation I really has been a great conversation I really thank you so much for you know taking thank you so much for you know taking thank you so much for you know taking time out is there anything else you want time out is there anything else you want time out is there anything else you want to share before we wrap up today's to share before we wrap up today's to share before we wrap up today's episode you know I think we've covered episode you know I think we've covered episode you know I think we've covered it you know one other piece that that it you know one other piece that that it you know one other piece that that we've done up thrown for years now we've we've done up thrown for years now we've we've done up thrown for years now we've been moving people along the lines of been moving people along the lines of been moving people along the lines of three asks so we asked you to be here at three asks so we asked you to be here at three asks so we asked you to be here at a weekend service that's really critical a weekend service that's really critical a weekend service that's really critical if you want to we asked you to serve in if you want to we asked you to serve in if you want to we asked you to serve in some way and we asked you to get into a some way and we asked you to get into a some way and we asked you to get into a community group and we just added a community group and we just added a community group and we just added a fourth ask fourth ask fourth ask and again it's helped us organize all

and again it's helped us organize all and again it's helped us organize all that stray stuff so you know how do we that stray stuff so you know how do we that stray stuff so you know how do we get people introduced to the Old get people introduced to the Old get people introduced to the Old Testament and New Testament how do we Testament and New Testament how do we Testament and New Testament how do we get them introduced to basic get them introduced to basic get them introduced to basic hermeneutics or whatever we realized if hermeneutics or whatever we realized if hermeneutics or whatever we realized if we try to do that strictly through we try to do that strictly through we try to do that strictly through community group curricula there you know community group curricula there you know community group curricula there you know it's just very limited we have to do it's just very limited we have to do it's just very limited we have to do some seminar teaching so so how do we some seminar teaching so so how do we some seminar teaching so so how do we start throwing those courses out there start throwing those courses out there start throwing those courses out there without it muddying the waters and now without it muddying the waters and now without it muddying the waters and now it sounds like 14 asks so what we've it sounds like 14 asks so what we've it sounds like 14 asks so what we've done is we've taken all those seminar done is we've taken all those seminar done is we've taken all those seminar type courses that we're teaching you type courses that we're teaching you type courses that we're teaching you know biblical parenting evangelism know biblical parenting evangelism know biblical parenting evangelism training all that stuff and we put it in training all that stuff and we put it in training all that stuff and we put it in a fourth category we just call training a fourth category we just call training a fourth category we just call training and ask people if a saccade on a three and ask people if a saccade on a three and ask people if a saccade on a three semester a year you know fall then semester a year you know fall then semester a year you know fall then there's winter and then there's spring there's winter and then there's spring there's winter and then there's spring you know summer one of those semesters you know summer one of those semesters you know summer one of those semesters do one thing training wise okay come on do one thing training wise okay come on do one thing training wise okay come on the weekend invited place to serve get the weekend invited place to serve get the weekend invited place to serve get in the community group but fourthly do in the community group but fourthly do in the community group but fourthly do something by way of training so coming something by way of training so coming something by way of training so coming up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg up with that fourth category mm-hmm leg of our stool if you would have been of our stool if you would have been of our stool if you would have been really helpful it's been a way to really helpful it's been a way to really helpful it's been a way to organize stuff so again it doesn't sound organize stuff so again it doesn't sound organize stuff so again it doesn't sound like we're asking you know 14 17 things like we're asking you know 14 17 things like we're asking you know 14 17 things have you grass or basic things but that have you grass or basic things but that have you grass or basic things but that last catch-all category helps us to hit last catch-all category helps us to hit last catch-all category helps us to hit on all the important training stuff on all the important training stuff on all the important training stuff very cool well this has been fantastic very cool well this has been fantastic very cool well this has been fantastic Jim if people want to get in touch with Jim if people want to get in touch with Jim if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do you or with the church how can they do you or with the church how can they do that you know feel free to email me at that you know feel free to email me at that you know feel free to email me at JL Nicodemo de l nico de m @ ccc

JL Nicodemo de l nico de m @ ccc JL Nicodemo de l nico de m @ ccc life.org I'd be happy to to respond rich life.org I'd be happy to to respond rich life.org I'd be happy to to respond rich nice thanks so much Jim I appreciate you nice thanks so much Jim I appreciate you nice thanks so much Jim I appreciate you on the show today thank you rich it's on the show today thank you rich it's on the show today thank you rich it's been a joy talking thank you for tuning been a joy talking thank you for tuning been a joy talking thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you at unsummon re calm and we'll send you at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter @ rich birch or through email on twitter @ rich birch or through email on twitter @ rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this check out the show notes for this check out the show notes for this episode at unset Minari com it includes episode at unset Minari com it includes episode at unset Minari com it includes links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary