Bob Smith on Church Governance that Helps Fuel Growth

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by regal theater Church brought to you by regal theater Church brought to you by regal theater Church the only theater company providing full the only theater company providing full the only theater company providing full service consultation for churches service consultation for churches service consultation for churches wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship services and familiar culturally services and familiar culturally services and familiar culturally relevant venues the local movie theater relevant venues the local movie theater relevant venues the local movie theater with lots of parking spacious lobbies with lots of parking spacious lobbies with lots of parking spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view of the screen from a comfortable seat of the screen from a comfortable seat of the screen from a comfortable seat regal theaters are ideal for church regal theaters are ideal for church regal theaters are ideal for church plants and multi sites learn more at plants and multi sites learn more at plants and multi sites learn more at regal theater church com or call their regal theater church com or call their regal theater church com or call their incredible team at one eight hundred 79 incredible team at one eight hundred 79 incredible team at one eight hundred 79 to 82 for four today welcome to the to 82 for four today welcome to the to 82 for four today welcome to the uncinate podcast are you looking for uncinate podcast are you looking for uncinate podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive your practical ministry help to drive your practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others and pursuit of stuff that we wish others and pursuit of stuff that we wish others and pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast everybody welcome to on seminary podcast everybody welcome to on seminary podcast everybody welcome to the unset Mary podcast my name is rich the unset Mary podcast my name is rich the unset Mary podcast my name is rich the host around these parts thank you so the host around these parts thank you so the host around these parts thank you so much for taking time out to be on and much for taking time out to be on and much for taking time out to be on and listen in on today's episode we know listen in on today's episode we know listen in on today's episode we know you've got a lot going on and we're just you've got a lot going on and we're just you've got a lot going on and we're just honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time out to listen in today I'm excited to out to listen in today I'm excited to out to listen in today I'm excited to have Bob Smith from us Bob is at 242 have Bob Smith from us Bob is at 242 have Bob Smith from us Bob is at 242 church a fantastic church if you're not church a fantastic church if you're not church a fantastic church if you're not following them you really should welcome following them you really should welcome following them you really should welcome to the show Bob they do and I'm glad to to the show Bob they do and I'm glad to to the show Bob they do and I'm glad to be here this is going to be great I'm so be here this is going to be great I'm so be here this is going to be great I'm so glad to have you here so 242 church a glad to have you here so 242 church a glad to have you here so 242 church a great church started in 2005 is really great church started in 2005 is really great church started in 2005 is really rapidly growing a couple campuses I rapidly growing a couple campuses I rapidly growing a couple campuses I think you may be eyeing more in the think you may be eyeing more in the think you may be eyeing more in the future about 4,000 people in 10 is a future about 4,000 people in 10 is a future about 4,000 people in 10 is a significant church but why don't you significant church but why don't you significant church but why don't you tell us about your role there at 242 my

tell us about your role there at 242 my tell us about your role there at 242 my role is has just evolved I was the for role is has just evolved I was the for role is has just evolved I was the for the last five years I was a campus the last five years I was a campus the last five years I was a campus pastor for the largest campus in pastor for the largest campus in pastor for the largest campus in Brighton we were about 440 200 people Brighton we were about 440 200 people Brighton we were about 440 200 people this campus and I had always been part this campus and I had always been part this campus and I had always been part of the leadership team when the church of the leadership team when the church of the leadership team when the church started but I i have a 27-year career started but I i have a 27-year career started but I i have a 27-year career here you go into the ministry my my role here you go into the ministry my my role here you go into the ministry my my role is just evolved to so focus mostly on is just evolved to so focus mostly on is just evolved to so focus mostly on business and development the development business and development the development business and development the development side is going to be new church work new side is going to be new church work new side is going to be new church work new residents planting internships missions residents planting internships missions residents planting internships missions and things like that so that's what I'll and things like that so that's what I'll and things like that so that's what I'll be focusing on going be focusing on going be focusing on going forward in the future oh why don't we forward in the future oh why don't we forward in the future oh why don't we start give us a sense of 242 if people start give us a sense of 242 if people start give us a sense of 242 if people that don't know the ministry give us that don't know the ministry give us that don't know the ministry give us kind of a flavor for for the for the kind of a flavor for for the for the kind of a flavor for for the for the church there well I think what we try to church there well I think what we try to church there well I think what we try to do the most is to be able to focus on do the most is to be able to focus on do the most is to be able to focus on people who are far from God I would say people who are far from God I would say people who are far from God I would say that probably about fifty percent of the that probably about fifty percent of the that probably about fifty percent of the people who attend here on a weekend have people who attend here on a weekend have people who attend here on a weekend have no real relationship to Jesus Christ yet no real relationship to Jesus Christ yet no real relationship to Jesus Christ yet they're spiritually curious they're just they're spiritually curious they're just they're spiritually curious they're just trying to figure things out so we really trying to figure things out so we really trying to figure things out so we really focus on the mission more than we ever focus on the mission more than we ever focus on the mission more than we ever do people's preferences and when I say do people's preferences and when I say do people's preferences and when I say preferences is there's a lot of churches preferences is there's a lot of churches preferences is there's a lot of churches out there that if telephone comes and out there that if telephone comes and out there that if telephone comes and says hey you know we went to a women's says hey you know we went to a women's says hey you know we went to a women's ministry wanted to this ministry we went ministry wanted to this ministry we went ministry wanted to this ministry we went to that if it doesn't fit the ideal that to that if it doesn't fit the ideal that to that if it doesn't fit the ideal that we want to value people on the fringe we want to value people on the fringe we want to value people on the fringe more than people at the core we're more than people at the core we're more than people at the core we're probably not going to end up doing it so probably not going to end up doing it so probably not going to end up doing it so we try to be a really simple church we try to be a really simple church we try to be a really simple church weekend experiences and small groups

weekend experiences and small groups weekend experiences and small groups that's about the two main things that we that's about the two main things that we that's about the two main things that we do hmmm now how are how are you able to do hmmm now how are how are you able to do hmmm now how are how are you able to kind of keep that focus i think a lot of kind of keep that focus i think a lot of kind of keep that focus i think a lot of churches talk about simple church but at churches talk about simple church but at churches talk about simple church but at a touch of your size you know how are a touch of your size you know how are a touch of your size you know how are you able to do that what are some of the you able to do that what are some of the you able to do that what are some of the kind of mechanisms that you've been able kind of mechanisms that you've been able kind of mechanisms that you've been able to do that as a church well I think our to do that as a church well I think our to do that as a church well I think our lead team stays pretty laser focused on lead team stays pretty laser focused on lead team stays pretty laser focused on on those two core values and to be able on those two core values and to be able on those two core values and to be able to work through those and I think we to work through those and I think we to work through those and I think we have internal checks and balances with have internal checks and balances with have internal checks and balances with our team something sounds like it's our team something sounds like it's our team something sounds like it's going beyond what we try to do we the going beyond what we try to do we the going beyond what we try to do we the other guys on the team will just start other guys on the team will just start other guys on the team will just start beginning to shut that out of that beginning to shut that out of that beginning to shut that out of that conversation down and just be able to conversation down and just be able to conversation down and just be able to guide it back to and one of the things guide it back to and one of the things guide it back to and one of the things that really helps us is that we try to that really helps us is that we try to that really helps us is that we try to think like a new church plant even think like a new church plant even think like a new church plant even though we've been around for 10 years so though we've been around for 10 years so though we've been around for 10 years so it's it's always getting back to what it's it's always getting back to what it's it's always getting back to what does it look like that multiplied more does it look like that multiplied more does it look like that multiplied more churches start churches grow the church churches start churches grow the church churches start churches grow the church reach people who are far from God as reach people who are far from God as reach people who are far from God as opposed to just transfer growth or opposed to just transfer growth or opposed to just transfer growth or anything else love if all those people anything else love if all those people anything else love if all those people would stay the churches of their app and would stay the churches of their app and would stay the churches of their app and just you send those those other folks to just you send those those other folks to just you send those those other folks to us or so we can maybe just equip or work us or so we can maybe just equip or work us or so we can maybe just equip or work together to reach those people and grow together to reach those people and grow together to reach those people and grow the kingdom so we we talk about that all the kingdom so we we talk about that all the kingdom so we we talk about that all the time and we're pretty laser focused the time and we're pretty laser focused the time and we're pretty laser focused on it so the letter okay check ourselves on it so the letter okay check ourselves on it so the letter okay check ourselves on that yeah absolutely now when you you on that yeah absolutely now when you you on that yeah absolutely now when you you know how are you kind of structured from know how are you kind of structured from know how are you kind of structured from a leadership point of you talked about a leadership point of you talked about a leadership point of you talked about the lead team how does that work from a the lead team how does that work from a the lead team how does that work from a governance point of view how you know governance point of view how you know governance point of view how you know how are you making decisions within you how are you making decisions within you how are you making decisions within you know within 242 yeah so we're a staff know within 242 yeah so we're a staff know within 242 yeah so we're a staff led church most of you know large led church most of you know large led church most of you know large churches are today we have elders but

churches are today we have elders but churches are today we have elders but they really just the they guard the they really just the they guard the they really just the they guard the senior pastor there is accountability senior pastor there is accountability senior pastor there is accountability team and things like that they might be team and things like that they might be team and things like that they might be some of the first to hear what's going some of the first to hear what's going some of the first to hear what's going on but they don't they don't have a vote on but they don't they don't have a vote on but they don't they don't have a vote their role is really just to come their role is really just to come their role is really just to come alongside the senior guy and just in alongside the senior guy and just in alongside the senior guy and just in guard him nor his heart and guard the guard him nor his heart and guard the guard him nor his heart and guard the mission our lead team is comprised of mission our lead team is comprised of mission our lead team is comprised of five guys the senior pastor who acts as five guys the senior pastor who acts as five guys the senior pastor who acts as the CEO this is our lead board or a the CEO this is our lead board or a the CEO this is our lead board or a board of the church my act as a board of the church my act as a board of the church my act as a treasurer and we have besides that I treasurer and we have besides that I treasurer and we have besides that I have a teaching pastor okay to teaching have a teaching pastor okay to teaching have a teaching pastor okay to teaching teams and creative arts and I have a teams and creative arts and I have a teams and creative arts and I have a campus guy who looks after our campuses campus guy who looks after our campuses campus guy who looks after our campuses and small groups that I'm a guy who does and small groups that I'm a guy who does and small groups that I'm a guy who does family ministry who we just kind of family ministry who we just kind of family ministry who we just kind of talked about he does diapers two talked about he does diapers two talked about he does diapers two diplomas that's a great place where you diplomas that's a great place where you diplomas that's a great place where you live so like that it was really nice is live so like that it was really nice is live so like that it was really nice is that the lead team functions churchwide that the lead team functions churchwide that the lead team functions churchwide as leadership so we don't have campus as leadership so we don't have campus as leadership so we don't have campus pastors on our team or things like that pastors on our team or things like that pastors on our team or things like that who are you no position to themselves to who are you no position to themselves to who are you no position to themselves to take care of their campus in the best take care of their campus in the best take care of their campus in the best way so everybody on the lead team is way so everybody on the lead team is way so everybody on the lead team is looking after all the campuses looking after all the campuses looking after all the campuses churchwide equally so we have a stake in churchwide equally so we have a stake in churchwide equally so we have a stake in how everybody succeeds not just one how everybody succeeds not just one how everybody succeeds not just one campus versus another interesting now at campus versus another interesting now at campus versus another interesting now at the you know at that volunteer level the you know at that volunteer level the you know at that volunteer level there may be some people that are there may be some people that are there may be some people that are listening in that are saying that's listening in that are saying that's listening in that are saying that's interesting about the way you have your interesting about the way you have your interesting about the way you have your kind of the volunteer board structuring kind of the volunteer board structuring kind of the volunteer board structuring to kind of guard you know the senior to kind of guard you know the senior to kind of guard you know the senior pastor and I know that that's where

pastor and I know that that's where pastor and I know that that's where that's very similar how we're structured that's very similar how we're structured that's very similar how we're structured we're staff led as well but can you kind we're staff led as well but can you kind we're staff led as well but can you kind of dig into that has that what it's of dig into that has that what it's of dig into that has that what it's always been like that at 242 right from always been like that at 242 right from always been like that at 242 right from the beginning you know what has that the beginning you know what has that the beginning you know what has that process been like for you yeah when we process been like for you yeah when we process been like for you yeah when we started and we launched about 10 years started and we launched about 10 years started and we launched about 10 years ago we had a management team that was ago we had a management team that was ago we had a management team that was made up of myself senior pastor and some made up of myself senior pastor and some made up of myself senior pastor and some guys outside some senior pastors from guys outside some senior pastors from guys outside some senior pastors from other churches and things like that other churches and things like that other churches and things like that hookahs kind of gave advice and counsel hookahs kind of gave advice and counsel hookahs kind of gave advice and counsel as we as we launch they took us about as we as we launch they took us about as we as we launch they took us about six and a half seven years before we six and a half seven years before we six and a half seven years before we started to a point elder started to a point elder started to a point elder and at that time we just kind of loud and at that time we just kind of loud and at that time we just kind of loud our management team with senior guys our management team with senior guys our management team with senior guys where the churches we get to drop off as where the churches we get to drop off as where the churches we get to drop off as new guys came on from within our church new guys came on from within our church new guys came on from within our church but the idea is that we wanted people but the idea is that we wanted people but the idea is that we wanted people who were had had proven this to be with who were had had proven this to be with who were had had proven this to be with us know that takes a while to do is it us know that takes a while to do is it us know that takes a while to do is it church evolves and things like that one church evolves and things like that one church evolves and things like that one of the best things I have two guys on of the best things I have two guys on of the best things I have two guys on the team who are former elders from the team who are former elders from the team who are former elders from previous churches who would never accept previous churches who would never accept previous churches who would never accept again a traditional elders roll like so again a traditional elders roll like so again a traditional elders roll like so so when we told them what we're looking so when we told them what we're looking so when we told them what we're looking for specifically they're really excited for specifically they're really excited for specifically they're really excited about that because I'm a recovering about that because I'm a recovering about that because I'm a recovering elder myself that that's just a tough elder myself that that's just a tough elder myself that that's just a tough wall especially if you're trying to lead wall especially if you're trying to lead wall especially if you're trying to lead to a committee yeah there's a senior guy to a committee yeah there's a senior guy to a committee yeah there's a senior guy in a church who's struggling and you in a church who's struggling and you in a church who's struggling and you know he's got a you know he's got to be know he's got a you know he's got to be know he's got a you know he's got to be in more of an employee and then actually in more of an employee and then actually in more of an employee and then actually the visionary and I think that this the visionary and I think that this the visionary and I think that this structure really allows a senior guide structure really allows a senior guide structure really allows a senior guide to feel comfortable about you know

to feel comfortable about you know to feel comfortable about you know sharing what's going on in his life you sharing what's going on in his life you sharing what's going on in his life you know that accountability where Austin know that accountability where Austin know that accountability where Austin when you have an elder ship that is when you have an elder ship that is when you have an elder ship that is looking at the staff as their employees looking at the staff as their employees looking at the staff as their employees and then there's an elderly church if and then there's an elderly church if and then there's an elderly church if you start you know talking about the you start you know talking about the you start you know talking about the chinks in your armor and where things chinks in your armor and where things chinks in your armor and where things aren't going well some of those guys are aren't going well some of those guys are aren't going well some of those guys are thinking well that mean not be long term thinking well that mean not be long term thinking well that mean not be long term you know is more unemployment issue you know is more unemployment issue you know is more unemployment issue rather than a spiritual issue right so I rather than a spiritual issue right so I rather than a spiritual issue right so I think the way we do it really helps us think the way we do it really helps us think the way we do it really helps us stay in the spiritual side of things stay in the spiritual side of things stay in the spiritual side of things absolutely and the accountability side absolutely and the accountability side absolutely and the accountability side absolutely then what is the kind of absolutely then what is the kind of absolutely then what is the kind of planning process like how are you planning process like how are you planning process like how are you developing plans as on the staff side of developing plans as on the staff side of developing plans as on the staff side of that equation and what does that look that equation and what does that look that equation and what does that look like you know what's the rhythm that like you know what's the rhythm that like you know what's the rhythm that you're in there and how do you interact you're in there and how do you interact you're in there and how do you interact with them obviously you said hey there with them obviously you said hey there with them obviously you said hey there come some of the first people to be come some of the first people to be come some of the first people to be informed of that what does that process informed of that what does that process informed of that what does that process look like for you for the for the elder look like for you for the for the elder look like for you for the for the elder team i would say on the staff side from team i would say on the staff side from team i would say on the staff side from a chef's side with the staff site again a chef's side with the staff site again a chef's side with the staff site again so Lee team we meet together every every so Lee team we meet together every every so Lee team we meet together every every week we have an all staff meeting once a week we have an all staff meeting once a week we have an all staff meeting once a month with all the staff of the church month with all the staff of the church month with all the staff of the church about 40 50 people show up and but what about 40 50 people show up and but what about 40 50 people show up and but what you'll find us doing a lot of is is you'll find us doing a lot of is is you'll find us doing a lot of is is really trying to you know and it's easy really trying to you know and it's easy really trying to you know and it's easy to say to do this just to empower the to say to do this just to empower the to say to do this just to empower the different ministry teams where there's a different ministry teams where there's a different ministry teams where there's a campus level community life campus level community life campus level community life to be small groups Family Ministries to be small groups Family Ministries to be small groups Family Ministries parts empowering them to come up with parts empowering them to come up with parts empowering them to come up with stuff themselves be entrepreneurial but stuff themselves be entrepreneurial but stuff themselves be entrepreneurial but yet in a structure like ours the the yet in a structure like ours the the yet in a structure like ours the the conflict that arises is that we are

conflict that arises is that we are conflict that arises is that we are we're very central controlled church so we're very central controlled church so we're very central controlled church so we're more ivania we're not afraid our we're more ivania we're not afraid our we're more ivania we're not afraid our campuses are franchise and more company campuses are franchise and more company campuses are franchise and more company stores so there's high degrees of stores so there's high degrees of stores so there's high degrees of control and campuses basically just control and campuses basically just control and campuses basically just affect the content that we give them affect the content that we give them affect the content that we give them they execute that content but it's they execute that content but it's they execute that content but it's really important that is we we look at really important that is we we look at really important that is we we look at what are we grew probably on the what are we grew probably on the what are we grew probably on the strength of the entrepreneurialship of strength of the entrepreneurialship of strength of the entrepreneurialship of our senior pastor and the lead team our senior pastor and the lead team our senior pastor and the lead team mm-hmm in the first five years but what mm-hmm in the first five years but what mm-hmm in the first five years but what grew you the first five years in an grew you the first five years in an grew you the first five years in an entrepreneurial spirit is not going to entrepreneurial spirit is not going to entrepreneurial spirit is not going to grow you the next five years so we're grow you the next five years so we're grow you the next five years so we're we're trying to figure out and work to we're trying to figure out and work to we're trying to figure out and work to create systems where we can give create systems where we can give create systems where we can give opportunities to be an entrepreneur at opportunities to be an entrepreneur at opportunities to be an entrepreneur at the lower levels of community life the lower levels of community life the lower levels of community life family ministry children's ministry arts family ministry children's ministry arts family ministry children's ministry arts and things like that but yet still and things like that but yet still and things like that but yet still trying to control the high-value central trying to control the high-value central trying to control the high-value central so that we can have great content and so that we can have great content and so that we can have great content and excellent music and just that high level excellent music and just that high level excellent music and just that high level of execution so we're trying to you know of execution so we're trying to you know of execution so we're trying to you know figure that out and getting to push a figure that out and getting to push a figure that out and getting to push a lot of that content down I think mostly lot of that content down I think mostly lot of that content down I think mostly what we're trying to do is establish what we're trying to do is establish what we're trying to do is establish goals at the central level right that we goals at the central level right that we goals at the central level right that we then give the staff liberty to begin to then give the staff liberty to begin to then give the staff liberty to begin to come out and figure out what to do and come out and figure out what to do and come out and figure out what to do and we encourage you know cross-pollination we encourage you know cross-pollination we encourage you know cross-pollination between the campuses so you have a small between the campuses so you have a small between the campuses so you have a small fruit guy in Ann Arbor and your small fruit guy in Ann Arbor and your small fruit guy in Ann Arbor and your small group guy in Brighton like you're group guy in Brighton like you're group guy in Brighton like you're talking about trying to accomplish the talking about trying to accomplish the talking about trying to accomplish the same things because we don't want to same things because we don't want to same things because we don't want to create so many different programs we

create so many different programs we create so many different programs we want to have the best programs but yet want to have the best programs but yet want to have the best programs but yet you still have to allow experimentation you still have to allow experimentation you still have to allow experimentation to fight what those best programs are so to fight what those best programs are so to fight what those best programs are so you gotta love people fail you got allow you gotta love people fail you got allow you gotta love people fail you got allow some risk and you got to put money some risk and you got to put money some risk and you got to put money behind it even though I might think to behind it even though I might think to behind it even though I might think to myself like that's the dumbest thing myself like that's the dumbest thing myself like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard but let's let's give it I've ever heard but let's let's give it I've ever heard but let's let's give it a fly and see how it works absolutely a fly and see how it works absolutely a fly and see how it works absolutely obviously a big part of an empowered obviously a big part of an empowered obviously a big part of an empowered system like that is you know finding system like that is you know finding system like that is you know finding great people what are you looking for is great people what are you looking for is great people what are you looking for is you're trying to find people to kind of you're trying to find people to kind of you're trying to find people to kind of come on come on come on your team what are some of those kind of your team what are some of those kind of your team what are some of those kind of attributes you know the kind of people attributes you know the kind of people attributes you know the kind of people you're trying to bring on board yeah you're trying to bring on board yeah you're trying to bring on board yeah that's a great question one of the that's a great question one of the that's a great question one of the things that we've been talking a lot is things that we've been talking a lot is things that we've been talking a lot is about cultural fit a lot of other people about cultural fit a lot of other people about cultural fit a lot of other people call that chemistry yeah but I think the call that chemistry yeah but I think the call that chemistry yeah but I think the chemistry has more of a like do I like chemistry has more of a like do I like chemistry has more of a like do I like the guys right right Kirk out you're the guys right right Kirk out you're the guys right right Kirk out you're coming on and things like that but when coming on and things like that but when coming on and things like that but when you start getting larger and you get you start getting larger and you get you start getting larger and you get more than 50 staff members and things more than 50 staff members and things more than 50 staff members and things like that I think cultural fit is like that I think cultural fit is like that I think cultural fit is probably one of the best things you can probably one of the best things you can probably one of the best things you can begin to look at whether or not they begin to look at whether or not they begin to look at whether or not they hustle I what am I my family ministry hustle I what am I my family ministry hustle I what am I my family ministry guy Boston say he'll go on a walk with guy Boston say he'll go on a walk with guy Boston say he'll go on a walk with you know perspective staff in an you know perspective staff in an you know perspective staff in an interview and walking across the interview and walking across the interview and walking across the building and things like that they're building and things like that they're building and things like that they're not keeping pace with him or there's not keeping pace with him or there's not keeping pace with him or there's they're not fast walkers that's a clue they're not fast walkers that's a clue they're not fast walkers that's a clue for him it's just one of the clues and for him it's just one of the clues and for him it's just one of the clues and yes it's like that but yeah that's yes it's like that but yeah that's yes it's like that but yeah that's that's yep that's a great what a similar that's yep that's a great what a similar that's yep that's a great what a similar one that I've heard another another one that I've heard another another one that I've heard another another leader say is whenever they interview a leader say is whenever they interview a leader say is whenever they interview a staff they always walk them out to their staff they always walk them out to their staff they always walk them out to their car after their interview and take a car after their interview and take a car after their interview and take a look inside the person's car and because

look inside the person's car and because look inside the person's car and because oh yeah if the inside of their car is a oh yeah if the inside of their car is a oh yeah if the inside of their car is a complete mess they may not be a fit for complete mess they may not be a fit for complete mess they may not be a fit for the culture there they may hey if they the culture there they may hey if they the culture there they may hey if they can't keep their car clean you know can't keep their car clean you know can't keep their car clean you know maybe that's good person which is good I maybe that's good person which is good I maybe that's good person which is good I might steal it as a former cop ice look might steal it as a former cop ice look might steal it as a former cop ice look at a lot of cars yes good enjoy that at a lot of cars yes good enjoy that at a lot of cars yes good enjoy that look for evidence yeah so one of the look for evidence yeah so one of the look for evidence yeah so one of the things that we try to think about is it things that we try to think about is it things that we try to think about is it depends on the department somebody's depends on the department somebody's depends on the department somebody's going into right if it's a department going into right if it's a department going into right if it's a department right now of like our community life our right now of like our community life our right now of like our community life our small groups there a little bit more small groups there a little bit more small groups there a little bit more bureaucratic and they have a lot of bureaucratic and they have a lot of bureaucratic and they have a lot of tasks they have to accomplish their tasks they have to accomplish their tasks they have to accomplish their coaching small group leaders and network coaching small group leaders and network coaching small group leaders and network leaders and things like that there's a leaders and things like that there's a leaders and things like that there's a lot of benchmarks and they have to be lot of benchmarks and they have to be lot of benchmarks and they have to be able to hit and things like that so it's able to hit and things like that so it's able to hit and things like that so it's point less opportunity entrepreneurial point less opportunity entrepreneurial point less opportunity entrepreneurial so what I look for an entrepreneur to be so what I look for an entrepreneur to be so what I look for an entrepreneur to be in that role right now probably not I'm in that role right now probably not I'm in that role right now probably not I'm going to look for someone who can going to look for someone who can going to look for someone who can execute you know operationally so one execute you know operationally so one execute you know operationally so one who understands may be more pragmatic who understands may be more pragmatic who understands may be more pragmatic approach if that's what we're trying to approach if that's what we're trying to approach if that's what we're trying to do our family ministries have a great do our family ministries have a great do our family ministries have a great success finding a little more success finding a little more success finding a little more entrepreneurial and our youth minister entrepreneurial and our youth minister entrepreneurial and our youth minister piece our children trying to feel insane piece our children trying to feel insane piece our children trying to feel insane as they begin to figure out what they're as they begin to figure out what they're as they begin to figure out what they're going forward an example is we have a going forward an example is we have a going forward an example is we have a one-to-one special needs Minister one-to-one special needs Minister one-to-one special needs Minister treating so cool that was birthed out of treating so cool that was birthed out of treating so cool that was birthed out of the Jonas program and just a need and the Jonas program and just a need and the Jonas program and just a need and that was just the that was just the that was just the a a great opportunity that they saw that a a great opportunity that they saw that a a great opportunity that they saw that we didn't see to connect to part their we didn't see to connect to part their we didn't see to connect to part their community that we were missing so we community that we were missing so we community that we were missing so we really kind of you know narrow this down really kind of you know narrow this down really kind of you know narrow this down and one of the things too that we find and one of the things too that we find and one of the things too that we find in our organization is we probably don't in our organization is we probably don't in our organization is we probably don't succeed well enough to a mentor in the

succeed well enough to a mentor in the succeed well enough to a mentor in the position to say you need to do this in position to say you need to do this in position to say you need to do this in this and this to progress so i'll this and this to progress so i'll this and this to progress so i'll probably be looking more for someone probably be looking more for someone probably be looking more for someone who's a self-starter right I initiative who's a self-starter right I initiative who's a self-starter right I initiative you know and things like that that way you know and things like that that way you know and things like that that way if it's not my culture right now in the if it's not my culture right now in the if it's not my culture right now in the church and we're not doing as well I'm church and we're not doing as well I'm church and we're not doing as well I'm not going to just staff with somebody not going to just staff with somebody not going to just staff with somebody who needs a lot of that right someone who needs a lot of that right someone who needs a lot of that right someone needs to be able to be guided more needs to be able to be guided more needs to be able to be guided more probably look more for a self-starter probably look more for a self-starter probably look more for a self-starter and someone who can just you know and someone who can just you know and someone who can just you know figuring out what he needs to do or she figuring out what he needs to do or she figuring out what he needs to do or she needs to do without constant input very needs to do without constant input very needs to do without constant input very cool well this has been a great cool well this has been a great cool well this has been a great conversation so far you know when you conversation so far you know when you conversation so far you know when you think about kind of governance and how think about kind of governance and how think about kind of governance and how your team structure fits together is your team structure fits together is your team structure fits together is there anything else you'd like to share there anything else you'd like to share there anything else you'd like to share you know with our listeners before we you know with our listeners before we you know with our listeners before we move on with the rest of the episode you move on with the rest of the episode you move on with the rest of the episode you know is we talk governess one of the know is we talk governess one of the know is we talk governess one of the really interesting things about 242 is I really interesting things about 242 is I really interesting things about 242 is I don't even have an employee handbook I don't even have an employee handbook I don't even have an employee handbook I have no vacation time I have no sick have no vacation time I have no sick have no vacation time I have no sick time so we're at some point I mean I time so we're at some point I mean I time so we're at some point I mean I have a draft book ready to go when they have a draft book ready to go when they have a draft book ready to go when they figure out like this is really important figure out like this is really important figure out like this is really important but since the culture that it not so but since the culture that it not so but since the culture that it not so we're a start-up probably don't have we're a start-up probably don't have we're a start-up probably don't have that level of freedom and that level of freedom and that level of freedom and experimentation yet right but the idea experimentation yet right but the idea experimentation yet right but the idea that a high level of trust that we want that a high level of trust that we want that a high level of trust that we want to be able to you to work as hard as to be able to you to work as hard as to be able to you to work as hard as what you need to work and rest as much what you need to work and rest as much what you need to work and rest as much as what you need to rest interesting you as what you need to rest interesting you as what you need to rest interesting you know often we tried you know will we know often we tried you know will we know often we tried you know will we tell people well you can take up to you tell people well you can take up to you tell people well you can take up to you know three weeks vacay there's something

know three weeks vacay there's something know three weeks vacay there's something like that just take it when you need it like that just take it when you need it like that just take it when you need it and they'll come back and they won't if and they'll come back and they won't if and they'll come back and they won't if we watch they won't take it so we had to we watch they won't take it so we had to we watch they won't take it so we had to encourage people to take that time off encourage people to take that time off encourage people to take that time off interesting really because you know it's interesting really because you know it's interesting really because you know it's just it's just a different animal for a just it's just a different animal for a just it's just a different animal for a lot of our folks they just they work lot of our folks they just they work lot of our folks they just they work really hard we've been missing you know really hard we've been missing you know really hard we've been missing you know in a season of busyness for 10 years in a season of busyness for 10 years in a season of busyness for 10 years there's a lot of traditional there's a lot of traditional there's a lot of traditional there's an ebb and flow and things like there's an ebb and flow and things like there's an ebb and flow and things like that and we don't seem to have that yet that and we don't seem to have that yet that and we don't seem to have that yet which is it is a kingdom problem but which is it is a kingdom problem but which is it is a kingdom problem but it's still a problem you go look after it's still a problem you go look after it's still a problem you go look after this is the uncinate podcast stuff you this is the uncinate podcast stuff you this is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary we're going wish they taught in seminary we're going wish they taught in seminary we're going to turn to the lightning round that's to turn to the lightning round that's to turn to the lightning round that's the part of the episode where we have the part of the episode where we have the part of the episode where we have similar questions of people who are on similar questions of people who are on similar questions of people who are on the show today super excited to have Bob the show today super excited to have Bob the show today super excited to have Bob Smith was with us from 242 Community Smith was with us from 242 Community Smith was with us from 242 Community Church great Church you need to really Church great Church you need to really Church great Church you need to really be following this church if you aren't be following this church if you aren't be following this church if you aren't today if you aren't yet so what's an today if you aren't yet so what's an today if you aren't yet so what's an online resource Bob that you're using online resource Bob that you're using online resource Bob that you're using these days that's helping you out uh these days that's helping you out uh these days that's helping you out uh there's a google group for executive there's a google group for executive there's a google group for executive pastors in our tribe that has about 120 pastors in our tribe that has about 120 pastors in our tribe that has about 120 folks on it and i use at all the time folks on it and i use at all the time folks on it and i use at all the time but every single day that there's a but every single day that there's a but every single day that there's a question it fires up i'll fire off a question it fires up i'll fire off a question it fires up i'll fire off a question then i'll get a bunch of question then i'll get a bunch of question then i'll get a bunch of information back very cool what's a book information back very cool what's a book information back very cool what's a book you've read in the last six months you've read in the last six months you've read in the last six months that's influencing the way you're that's influencing the way you're that's influencing the way you're thinking or shaping your ministry you thinking or shaping your ministry you thinking or shaping your ministry you know the book that I probably read at know the book that I probably read at know the book that I probably read at least once a year especially when I least once a year especially when I least once a year especially when I mentor guys is it cost of discipleship mentor guys is it cost of discipleship mentor guys is it cost of discipleship by deitrick on offer yeah and if to me by deitrick on offer yeah and if to me by deitrick on offer yeah and if to me it's a it's a really hard read yeah but it's a it's a really hard read yeah but it's a it's a really hard read yeah but it's an incredible worthwhile in it and it's an incredible worthwhile in it and it's an incredible worthwhile in it and I've read it five or six times hmm and I I've read it five or six times hmm and I I've read it five or six times hmm and I think I need to read it x yes actually

think I need to read it x yes actually think I need to read it x yes actually very cool what's another ministry you're very cool what's another ministry you're very cool what's another ministry you're looking to that you know it's inspiring looking to that you know it's inspiring looking to that you know it's inspiring you these days Christchurch the valley you these days Christchurch the valley you these days Christchurch the valley out in Phoenix we you know we talk to out in Phoenix we you know we talk to out in Phoenix we you know we talk to them well I'm in a bit we actually went them well I'm in a bit we actually went them well I'm in a bit we actually went down the new spring Oh gary noble's down the new spring Oh gary noble's down the new spring Oh gary noble's church shouldn't do the leadership church shouldn't do the leadership church shouldn't do the leadership retreat down there and now they treated retreat down there and now they treated retreat down there and now they treated us like kings and it was just a great us like kings and it was just a great us like kings and it was just a great time there probably a decade ahead of us time there probably a decade ahead of us time there probably a decade ahead of us in different ways we were able to learn in different ways we were able to learn in different ways we were able to learn from that and I've context and a few from that and I've context and a few from that and I've context and a few other churches that a big fan of other churches that a big fan of other churches that a big fan of benchmarking all my staff will always benchmarking all my staff will always benchmarking all my staff will always tell you that if they come to me with an tell you that if they come to me with an tell you that if they come to me with an issue i'll say where have you looked issue i'll say where have you looked issue i'll say where have you looked before find out who's doing it well before find out who's doing it well before find out who's doing it well let's figure that out because I don't let's figure that out because I don't let's figure that out because I don't believe in I don't believe in anything believe in I don't believe in anything believe in I don't believe in anything new out there right exactly very cool new out there right exactly very cool new out there right exactly very cool good who's a leader if you could get 15 good who's a leader if you could get 15 good who's a leader if you could get 15 minutes with them a leader that's alive minutes with them a leader that's alive minutes with them a leader that's alive today that you'd love to spend some time today that you'd love to spend some time today that you'd love to spend some time with them who would that be and why you with them who would that be and why you with them who would that be and why you know this must I must lend a littles know this must I must lend a littles know this must I must lend a littles trace would it be General Petraeus trace would it be General Petraeus trace would it be General Petraeus ok sorry retired he's uh he's one of ok sorry retired he's uh he's one of ok sorry retired he's uh he's one of these guys that who rose to a position these guys that who rose to a position these guys that who rose to a position of incredible influence and dominance in of incredible influence and dominance in of incredible influence and dominance in the US Army and did incredible things in the US Army and did incredible things in the US Army and did incredible things in his career if you look at his entire his career if you look at his entire his career if you look at his entire career then he fell so quickly right and career then he fell so quickly right and career then he fell so quickly right and I would just want to like first you know I would just want to like first you know I would just want to like first you know honor what he did no I don't know he honor what he did no I don't know he honor what he did no I don't know he needs to be remembered for what he's needs to be remembered for what he's needs to be remembered for what he's done right but not what he did right but

done right but not what he did right but done right but not what he did right but I'd love to learn from that because in I'd love to learn from that because in I'd love to learn from that because in the middle of just great success and the middle of just great success and the middle of just great success and accolades mm-hmm he just fell in an accolades mm-hmm he just fell in an accolades mm-hmm he just fell in an instant and I think there's a story instant and I think there's a story instant and I think there's a story there mmm that senior guys and gals need there mmm that senior guys and gals need there mmm that senior guys and gals need to understand how that happened mm to understand how that happened mm to understand how that happened mm that's very good very good all right that's very good very good all right that's very good very good all right well when you're having fun you just well when you're having fun you just well when you're having fun you just want to kick back relax a little bit i'm want to kick back relax a little bit i'm want to kick back relax a little bit i'm sure leading at the church there sure leading at the church there sure leading at the church there obviously is a demanding what do you do obviously is a demanding what do you do obviously is a demanding what do you do just for fun just to kind of kick back just for fun just to kind of kick back just for fun just to kind of kick back and relax I love to ride my motorcycle and relax I love to ride my motorcycle and relax I love to ride my motorcycle oh nice very cool is a good time of year oh nice very cool is a good time of year oh nice very cool is a good time of year to do the last ride have you got the to do the last ride have you got the to do the last ride have you got the last ride in yet you're still a few odd last ride in yet you're still a few odd last ride in yet you're still a few odd this weekend nice this weekend it better this weekend nice this weekend it better this weekend nice this weekend it better happen great well thanks Bob I really happen great well thanks Bob I really happen great well thanks Bob I really appreciate being on the show today if appreciate being on the show today if appreciate being on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or the church how it what's the best way the church how it what's the best way the church how it what's the best way for them to do that they can just for them to do that they can just for them to do that they can just website is 242 community calm my email website is 242 community calm my email website is 242 community calm my email is Bob Smith at 242 community calm Joey is Bob Smith at 242 community calm Joey is Bob Smith at 242 community calm Joey bishop that's fantastic thanks Bob for bishop that's fantastic thanks Bob for bishop that's fantastic thanks Bob for be on the show k all right thank you for be on the show k all right thank you for be on the show k all right thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary in box you connect check out on seminary in box you connect check out on seminary in box you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unset birch or through email rich at unset birch or through email rich at unset maneri calm don't forget to check out maneri calm don't forget to check out maneri calm don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset the show notes for this episode at unset the show notes for this episode at unset maneri calm it includes links to what we maneri calm it includes links to what we maneri calm it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's up so

you enjoy today's up so you enjoy today's up so drop by itunes and leave a review thanks drop by itunes and leave a review thanks drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary