David Fletcher on a System for Training & Releasing Next Generation Leaders

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by church community brought to you by church community brought to you by church community builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness church community builder provides church community builder provides church community builder provides leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into engagement of our church community engagement of our church community engagement of our church community helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn more welcome to the uncie maneri podcast more welcome to the uncie maneri podcast more welcome to the uncie maneri podcast are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry further help to drive our ministry further help to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast okay this week's on seminary podcast okay this week's on seminary podcast okay buddy welcome to the unset minori buddy welcome to the unset minori buddy welcome to the unset minori podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around these parts so glad that you've decided these parts so glad that you've decided these parts so glad that you've decided to tune in today you know every week on to tune in today you know every week on to tune in today you know every week on on seminary we try to cover you know on seminary we try to cover you know on seminary we try to cover you know wide variety of topics to help you with wide variety of topics to help you with wide variety of topics to help you with some of the practical stuff that's going some of the practical stuff that's going some of the practical stuff that's going on at your church today you're in for a on at your church today you're in for a on at your church today you're in for a real treat we're just going to be so real treat we're just going to be so real treat we're just going to be so glad that you've put us in your ear buds glad that you've put us in your ear buds glad that you've put us in your ear buds today we've got David Fletcher with us today we've got David Fletcher with us today we've got David Fletcher with us he is just a fantastic leader you he is he is just a fantastic leader you he is he is just a fantastic leader you he is the executive pastor at EV free in the executive pastor at EV free in the executive pastor at EV free in fullerton california he also runs a fullerton california he also runs a fullerton california he also runs a ministry called XP pastor calm which you ministry called XP pastor calm which you ministry called XP pastor calm which you might have been familiar with them they might have been familiar with them they might have been familiar with them they have a conference all kinds of stuff have a conference all kinds of stuff have a conference all kinds of stuff they do so welcome to the show David hey they do so welcome to the show David hey they do so welcome to the show David hey good to be with you thank you I'm so good to be with you thank you I'm so good to be with you thank you I'm so glad that you're you're here today now glad that you're you're here today now glad that you're you're here today now why don't we tell us once you tell us why don't we tell us once you tell us why don't we tell us once you tell us about EV free fullerton kind of give us

about EV free fullerton kind of give us about EV free fullerton kind of give us the story give us a set c or you know the story give us a set c or you know the story give us a set c or you know the church and and your role there sure the church and and your role there sure the church and and your role there sure it's a historic congregation had a it's a historic congregation had a it's a historic congregation had a fellow named chuck swindoll here one of fellow named chuck swindoll here one of fellow named chuck swindoll here one of the first Peter no Liam and and he was the first Peter no Liam and and he was the first Peter no Liam and and he was really one of the first mega radio really one of the first mega radio really one of the first mega radio famous preachers yeah so back in the day famous preachers yeah so back in the day famous preachers yeah so back in the day they used to have buses of tourists come they used to have buses of tourists come they used to have buses of tourists come to the church on Sunday morning crazy so to the church on Sunday morning crazy so to the church on Sunday morning crazy so the church grew was a large Church Chuck the church grew was a large Church Chuck the church grew was a large Church Chuck left went became president at Dallas left went became president at Dallas left went became president at Dallas seminary Dale Burke was here for 14 seminary Dale Burke was here for 14 seminary Dale Burke was here for 14 years and then Mike area was here for years and then Mike area was here for years and then Mike area was here for three years Mike did a lot of missional three years Mike did a lot of missional three years Mike did a lot of missional things very catalytic very prophetic in things very catalytic very prophetic in things very catalytic very prophetic in his style and now we're his style and now we're his style and now we're a transition and we'll start a search a transition and we'll start a search a transition and we'll start a search soon but one of the things that Mike and soon but one of the things that Mike and soon but one of the things that Mike and I really resonated together on and love I really resonated together on and love I really resonated together on and love doing ministry was on how to give doing ministry was on how to give doing ministry was on how to give ministry away and empower the next ministry away and empower the next ministry away and empower the next generation very nice visit with you guys generation very nice visit with you guys generation very nice visit with you guys for just a few minutes on that yeah very for just a few minutes on that yeah very for just a few minutes on that yeah very true I'd love to hear more about that true I'd love to hear more about that true I'd love to hear more about that obviously one of the things that obviously one of the things that obviously one of the things that churches struggle with is handing off churches struggle with is handing off churches struggle with is handing off you know ministry to the next generation you know ministry to the next generation you know ministry to the next generation what are you learning you know how are what are you learning you know how are what are you learning you know how are you kind of facing the challenge of you kind of facing the challenge of you kind of facing the challenge of mentoring younger staff and leaders well mentoring younger staff and leaders well mentoring younger staff and leaders well you know I added it up this morning you know I added it up this morning you know I added it up this morning because I had never really put a pencil because I had never really put a pencil because I had never really put a pencil to it and about one-third 11 out of 30 to it and about one-third 11 out of 30 to it and about one-third 11 out of 30 of our ministry staff will only be with of our ministry staff will only be with of our ministry staff will only be with us for four years Wow intentionally and us for four years Wow intentionally and us for four years Wow intentionally and they know that because we want to train they know that because we want to train they know that because we want to train them and release them and we want to cry

them and release them and we want to cry them and release them and we want to cry when they leave because it's really hard when they leave because it's really hard when they leave because it's really hard but um we we want to see them launched but um we we want to see them launched but um we we want to see them launched because the seminaries are great oh wait because the seminaries are great oh wait because the seminaries are great oh wait I'm talking to unsay we know what the I'm talking to unsay we know what the I'm talking to unsay we know what the seminaries are covering and so no one in seminaries are covering and so no one in seminaries are covering and so no one in seminaries is teaching somebody how to seminaries is teaching somebody how to seminaries is teaching somebody how to do my job to be an XP right right and do my job to be an XP right right and do my job to be an XP right right and similarly youth pastors so you know we similarly youth pastors so you know we similarly youth pastors so you know we have seven folks three and junior high have seven folks three and junior high have seven folks three and junior high for an high school ministry who are for an high school ministry who are for an high school ministry who are going to be with us for two to three going to be with us for two to three going to be with us for two to three years hmmm Traynham release them then we years hmmm Traynham release them then we years hmmm Traynham release them then we have another ten or twenty interns I have another ten or twenty interns I have another ten or twenty interns I haven't even included in that mix Wow haven't even included in that mix Wow haven't even included in that mix Wow they're just with us for a year mostly they're just with us for a year mostly they're just with us for a year mostly volunteer a few paid but we we really volunteer a few paid but we we really volunteer a few paid but we we really believe in empowering the next believe in empowering the next believe in empowering the next generation and success is not that generation and success is not that generation and success is not that everybody goes into vocational Christian everybody goes into vocational Christian everybody goes into vocational Christian ministry right success is that Jesus ministry right success is that Jesus ministry right success is that Jesus remains in the front seat the driver's remains in the front seat the driver's remains in the front seat the driver's seat of the car and that they decide not seat of the car and that they decide not seat of the car and that they decide not to put Jesus in the back seat as just a to put Jesus in the back seat as just a to put Jesus in the back seat as just a ride-along for the rest of their life ride-along for the rest of their life ride-along for the rest of their life well let's dig into a couple things you well let's dig into a couple things you well let's dig into a couple things you said they're so now you're intentionally said they're so now you're intentionally said they're so now you're intentionally this feels like a fairly controversial this feels like a fairly controversial this feels like a fairly controversial idea intentionally training up staff to idea intentionally training up staff to idea intentionally training up staff to let them go to release them to send it let them go to release them to send it let them go to release them to send it authorizes you do that that seems crazy authorizes you do that that seems crazy authorizes you do that that seems crazy you're investing in them you know you've you're investing in them you know you've you're investing in them you know you've investing kind of relational capital in investing kind of relational capital in investing kind of relational capital in them and then you're saying okay go get them and then you're saying okay go get them and then you're saying okay go get out of the nest what does that look like out of the nest what does that look like out of the nest what does that look like well you just hit it right on its it's well you just hit it right on its it's well you just hit it right on its it's wonderful and you get some of the best wonderful and you get some of the best wonderful and you get some of the best and brightest but you and brightest but you and brightest but you have to be ready from the get-go that have to be ready from the get-go that have to be ready from the get-go that they are going to leave that this is a

they are going to leave that this is a they are going to leave that this is a short-term position because well one short-term position because well one short-term position because well one church is really expensive for a lot of church is really expensive for a lot of church is really expensive for a lot of full-time staff over the long haul and full-time staff over the long haul and full-time staff over the long haul and the schools aren't doing it so who's the schools aren't doing it so who's the schools aren't doing it so who's going to train up this next generation going to train up this next generation going to train up this next generation of pastors hmm interesting now so then of pastors hmm interesting now so then of pastors hmm interesting now so then do your do the people that attend your do your do the people that attend your do your do the people that attend your church do they you know they have a church do they you know they have a church do they you know they have a sense that hey some of these people are sense that hey some of these people are sense that hey some of these people are going to be with us very long or is that going to be with us very long or is that going to be with us very long or is that does that kind of run in the background does that kind of run in the background does that kind of run in the background as a leadership you know issue we it's as a leadership you know issue we it's as a leadership you know issue we it's not hidden it's not a hidden agenda and not hidden it's not a hidden agenda and not hidden it's not a hidden agenda and it comes out from time to time so you it comes out from time to time so you it comes out from time to time so you know the listener is going to hear it know the listener is going to hear it know the listener is going to hear it some people will be surprised when some some people will be surprised when some some people will be surprised when some of these folks rotate off but the rest of these folks rotate off but the rest of these folks rotate off but the rest will be like oh yeah you've kind of like will be like oh yeah you've kind of like will be like oh yeah you've kind of like been saying that for three years now we been saying that for three years now we been saying that for three years now we understand it but we don't want to see understand it but we don't want to see understand it but we don't want to see the person go but we understand right the person go but we understand right the person go but we understand right well i think you know particularly in well i think you know particularly in well i think you know particularly in some of those roles you know having say some of those roles you know having say some of those roles you know having say a youth person stay for four years is a youth person stay for four years is a youth person stay for four years is about right you know there's a lot of about right you know there's a lot of about right you know there's a lot of churches would kill to be able after churches would kill to be able after churches would kill to be able after guys stay for four years you know guys stay for four years you know guys stay for four years you know because it seems to be a you know high because it seems to be a you know high because it seems to be a you know high turnover area giving some purpose behind turnover area giving some purpose behind turnover area giving some purpose behind that to train and then release i think that to train and then release i think that to train and then release i think is a fantastic idea now what do you do is a fantastic idea now what do you do is a fantastic idea now what do you do from kind of a you know a role from kind of a you know a role from kind of a you know a role description point of view how are you description point of view how are you description point of view how are you what does that look like in one of these what does that look like in one of these what does that look like in one of these positions where you're kind of positions where you're kind of positions where you're kind of intentionally saying we want to develop intentionally saying we want to develop intentionally saying we want to develop these folks well even before you get these folks well even before you get these folks well even before you get into the role you have to start with into the role you have to start with into the role you have to start with your budget and vision right you have to your budget and vision right you have to your budget and vision right you have to have the orientation that we value have the orientation that we value have the orientation that we value long-term staff we just may not have as long-term staff we just may not have as long-term staff we just may not have as many as we head at one point in time but

many as we head at one point in time but many as we head at one point in time but we highly value long-term staff but we highly value long-term staff but we highly value long-term staff but their role is to mentor and coach the their role is to mentor and coach the their role is to mentor and coach the people of god to be a believer priests people of god to be a believer priests people of god to be a believer priests not to only do ministry but really to not to only do ministry but really to not to only do ministry but really to give it away and then to give it away to give it away and then to give it away to give it away and then to give it away to the next generation and then you have to the next generation and then you have to the next generation and then you have to align your budget and you have to say align your budget and you have to say align your budget and you have to say hey here is a certain amount of ministry hey here is a certain amount of ministry hey here is a certain amount of ministry dollars that we may never see grapefruit dollars that we may never see grapefruit dollars that we may never see grapefruit on like with interns oh we get a lot of on like with interns oh we get a lot of on like with interns oh we get a lot of work out of them but it's not about the work out of them but it's not about the work out of them but it's not about the work it's about the training and on work it's about the training and on work it's about the training and on these folks we may get a lot of their these folks we may get a lot of their these folks we may get a lot of their great training years we get a lot of great training years we get a lot of great training years we get a lot of great stuff out of them but their best great stuff out of them but their best great stuff out of them but their best years maybe in ten years right seeing years maybe in ten years right seeing years maybe in ten years right seeing the experience the experience the experience we give to him hmm where do you find we give to him hmm where do you find we give to him hmm where do you find these individuals is this like are they these individuals is this like are they these individuals is this like are they coming right out of school give me a coming right out of school give me a coming right out of school give me a sense the profile of you know that this sense the profile of you know that this sense the profile of you know that this kind of role well we're close to Biola kind of role well we're close to Biola kind of role well we're close to Biola University and a full ertan University University and a full ertan University University and a full ertan University in fullerton college and hope university in fullerton college and hope university in fullerton college and hope university so we have a lot of university so we can so we have a lot of university so we can so we have a lot of university so we can have undergraduates and graduates so have undergraduates and graduates so have undergraduates and graduates so there's Talbot there's rosemead school there's Talbot there's rosemead school there's Talbot there's rosemead school close by there's fuller so we have a lot close by there's fuller so we have a lot close by there's fuller so we have a lot of a rich pool to call upon and there's of a rich pool to call upon and there's of a rich pool to call upon and there's just a lot of people that want to just a lot of people that want to just a lot of people that want to explore this ministry thing for in the explore this ministry thing for in the explore this ministry thing for in the youth positions a couple of years and youth positions a couple of years and youth positions a couple of years and then in the more advanced positions many then in the more advanced positions many then in the more advanced positions many of those are post seminary mm-hmm of those are post seminary mm-hmm of those are post seminary mm-hmm interesting i would imagine almost like interesting i would imagine almost like interesting i would imagine almost like a teaching you know hospital that you a teaching you know hospital that you a teaching you know hospital that you know having this kind of influx of know having this kind of influx of know having this kind of influx of people on a regular basis is going to in

people on a regular basis is going to in people on a regular basis is going to in a good way I think challenge you to a good way I think challenge you to a good way I think challenge you to experiment to try new things because experiment to try new things because experiment to try new things because you're bringing in kind of newer ideas you're bringing in kind of newer ideas you're bringing in kind of newer ideas give me a sense of you know what's give me a sense of you know what's give me a sense of you know what's happening on that front in your happening on that front in your happening on that front in your experience on that from that's really experience on that from that's really experience on that from that's really the beautiful part of it is you know the the beautiful part of it is you know the the beautiful part of it is you know the question for you and for me because I've question for you and for me because I've question for you and for me because I've been in ministry now almost 35 years is been in ministry now almost 35 years is been in ministry now almost 35 years is how do you stay fresh you know it's it's how do you stay fresh you know it's it's how do you stay fresh you know it's it's Heraclitus is line from ancient Greece Heraclitus is line from ancient Greece Heraclitus is line from ancient Greece that you can never step into a river that you can never step into a river that you can never step into a river twice because it's always moving so how twice because it's always moving so how twice because it's always moving so how do you keep fresh with culture when I do you keep fresh with culture when I do you keep fresh with culture when I don't have a full-time job to just go don't have a full-time job to just go don't have a full-time job to just go and understand modern culture so what and understand modern culture so what and understand modern culture so what these folks do is they give us a these folks do is they give us a these folks do is they give us a wonderful window and they are brought wonderful window and they are brought wonderful window and they are brought fully into every area of ministry and fully into every area of ministry and fully into every area of ministry and leadership so that we say hey what does leadership so that we say hey what does leadership so that we say hey what does the millennial think about this what is the millennial think about this what is the millennial think about this what is the 22 year old think about this so we the 22 year old think about this so we the 22 year old think about this so we recently had a 22 year old guy preach recently had a 22 year old guy preach recently had a 22 year old guy preach our evening service part of that our evening service part of that our evening service part of that preaching team and kind of get a picture preaching team and kind of get a picture preaching team and kind of get a picture of oh this is what resonates there and of oh this is what resonates there and of oh this is what resonates there and this is done what doesn't work for him this is done what doesn't work for him this is done what doesn't work for him then we need to be sensitive to that hmm then we need to be sensitive to that hmm then we need to be sensitive to that hmm interesting now I would imagine it you interesting now I would imagine it you interesting now I would imagine it you know a big part of this year you know know a big part of this year you know know a big part of this year you know there it sounds great we want people to there it sounds great we want people to there it sounds great we want people to challenge we want you know great but challenge we want you know great but challenge we want you know great but ideas to bubble up is there a time or ideas to bubble up is there a time or ideas to bubble up is there a time or maybe you know some challenging from you maybe you know some challenging from you maybe you know some challenging from you know one of these you know ministry know one of these you know ministry know one of these you know ministry staff maybe didn't go staff maybe didn't go staff maybe didn't go well and what did you learn from that well and what did you learn from that well and what did you learn from that experience I would love to tell you you experience I would love to tell you you experience I would love to tell you you know pull out a story where it hasn't know pull out a story where it hasn't know pull out a story where it hasn't gone well but frankly we experiment we gone well but frankly we experiment we gone well but frankly we experiment we give people full all the Rope they need

give people full all the Rope they need give people full all the Rope they need hey go try this and failure is is not an hey go try this and failure is is not an hey go try this and failure is is not an option meaning it should happen if we option meaning it should happen if we option meaning it should happen if we aren't failing at some period then we aren't failing at some period then we aren't failing at some period then we aren't pressing hard enough into new and aren't pressing hard enough into new and aren't pressing hard enough into new and uncharted territory and we have very uncharted territory and we have very uncharted territory and we have very robust discussion so if somebody raises robust discussion so if somebody raises robust discussion so if somebody raises an issue you know let's say 22-year old an issue you know let's say 22-year old an issue you know let's say 22-year old gal raises an issue well then you know gal raises an issue well then you know gal raises an issue well then you know I'm a look at a 30 year old guy and say I'm a look at a 30 year old guy and say I'm a look at a 30 year old guy and say well what do you think about that let well what do you think about that let well what do you think about that let the two of them sort it out I don't have the two of them sort it out I don't have the two of them sort it out I don't have to be the arbiter and everything right to be the arbiter and everything right to be the arbiter and everything right and then empower and challenge and if and then empower and challenge and if and then empower and challenge and if it's a safe place I never want someone it's a safe place I never want someone it's a safe place I never want someone to to fail in an unsafe place right but to to fail in an unsafe place right but to to fail in an unsafe place right but hey okay you know the safety net is hey okay you know the safety net is hey okay you know the safety net is there and that's a fine event you know there and that's a fine event you know there and that's a fine event you know there's 50 people coming to it let's try there's 50 people coming to it let's try there's 50 people coming to it let's try that that's wonderful maybe it's the that that's wonderful maybe it's the that that's wonderful maybe it's the next wave or maybe it's just a whim but next wave or maybe it's just a whim but next wave or maybe it's just a whim but you know let's kind of investigate that you know let's kind of investigate that you know let's kind of investigate that yeah I can see where you know creating yeah I can see where you know creating yeah I can see where you know creating an environment particular environment an environment particular environment an environment particular environment where you provide some guard rails so where you provide some guard rails so where you provide some guard rails so it's like hey here's this kind of where it's like hey here's this kind of where it's like hey here's this kind of where we're headed and a safety net that it we're headed and a safety net that it we're headed and a safety net that it you know it's okay if this doesn't go you know it's okay if this doesn't go you know it's okay if this doesn't go well is critically important as we move well is critically important as we move well is critically important as we move forward you know in training and forward you know in training and forward you know in training and releasing younger staff for sure I would releasing younger staff for sure I would releasing younger staff for sure I would imagine a part of that is then how you imagine a part of that is then how you imagine a part of that is then how you structure you know the job description structure you know the job description structure you know the job description and what the kind of their and what the kind of their and what the kind of their responsibilities looks like can you give responsibilities looks like can you give responsibilities looks like can you give us insight into what that looks like us insight into what that looks like us insight into what that looks like well they have a fully formed job well they have a fully formed job well they have a fully formed job description with plenty of description with plenty of description with plenty of responsibilities so give you an example responsibilities so give you an example responsibilities so give you an example John Hurst grad of UCLA grad of UCLA law John Hurst grad of UCLA grad of UCLA law John Hurst grad of UCLA grad of UCLA law school high marks and that was working

school high marks and that was working school high marks and that was working for a firm down on irvine making a huge for a firm down on irvine making a huge for a firm down on irvine making a huge salary that you and I could never touch salary that you and I could never touch salary that you and I could never touch right exactly but he wanted to get back right exactly but he wanted to get back right exactly but he wanted to get back in ministry because he had been for Sade in ministry because he had been for Sade in ministry because he had been for Sade and God had been tugging at his heart and God had been tugging at his heart and God had been tugging at his heart since college pretty cool and so when we since college pretty cool and so when we since college pretty cool and so when we opened up this for your position for an opened up this for your position for an opened up this for your position for an assistant XP we had him a apply he assistant XP we had him a apply he assistant XP we had him a apply he applied didn't know from Adam and so we applied didn't know from Adam and so we applied didn't know from Adam and so we turned over the HR department to him turned over the HR department to him turned over the HR department to him teaching him ops this year he ran the teaching him ops this year he ran the teaching him ops this year he ran the entire budget entire budget entire budget process with every staff member freed up process with every staff member freed up process with every staff member freed up by schedule tremendously absolutely has by schedule tremendously absolutely has by schedule tremendously absolutely has revolutionized our HR department he revolutionized our HR department he revolutionized our HR department he oversees all things legal and contracts oversees all things legal and contracts oversees all things legal and contracts just yesterday he and Eddie i'll talk just yesterday he and Eddie i'll talk just yesterday he and Eddie i'll talk about Eddie in a second visited church what's the name will come to me it's in what's the name will come to me it's in santa monica i still like oh it's a santa monica i still like oh it's a santa monica i still like oh it's a great dude it's a church plant okay next great dude it's a church plant okay next great dude it's a church plant okay next lorenzo smith in kc out there a lorenzo smith in kc out there a lorenzo smith in kc out there a collective church yeah I knew I guess I collective church yeah I knew I guess I collective church yeah I knew I guess I was thinking Borg an assimilationist was thinking Borg an assimilationist was thinking Borg an assimilationist view or register is futile so so you view or register is futile so so you view or register is futile so so you know we're building in him but we're know we're building in him but we're know we're building in him but we're also learning from him so Eddie's also learning from him so Eddie's also learning from him so Eddie's another guy Eddie has a THM from Talbot another guy Eddie has a THM from Talbot another guy Eddie has a THM from Talbot and came on as an assistant XP he's and came on as an assistant XP he's and came on as an assistant XP he's helping helping oversee operations but helping helping oversee operations but helping helping oversee operations but also along the way we discovered he knew also along the way we discovered he knew also along the way we discovered he knew it but we didn't know it this brother it but we didn't know it this brother it but we didn't know it this brother could really preach had never preached could really preach had never preached could really preach had never preached in a mixed-race environment because

in a mixed-race environment because in a mixed-race environment because income a Korean church and kind of took income a Korean church and kind of took income a Korean church and kind of took him a message or two to get used to that him a message or two to get used to that him a message or two to get used to that and what fun were having with Eddie very and what fun were having with Eddie very and what fun were having with Eddie very cool huh that's very cool to hear that's cool huh that's very cool to hear that's cool huh that's very cool to hear that's nice to get kind of an inside scoop get nice to get kind of an inside scoop get nice to get kind of an inside scoop get a sense of what that you know what that a sense of what that you know what that a sense of what that you know what that looks like what on the kind of Job looks like what on the kind of Job looks like what on the kind of Job Description side of what you do is that Description side of what you do is that Description side of what you do is that is there like an annual process where is there like an annual process where is there like an annual process where you go through at your church i'm sure you go through at your church i'm sure you go through at your church i'm sure there is to kind of review that and did there is to kind of review that and did there is to kind of review that and did you make sure that things are kind of you make sure that things are kind of you make sure that things are kind of structure in the right way what does structure in the right way what does structure in the right way what does that look like for you guys everybody that look like for you guys everybody that look like for you guys everybody gets an annual review and part of that gets an annual review and part of that gets an annual review and part of that and your review is looking at the role and your review is looking at the role and your review is looking at the role description and i believe in honesty and description and i believe in honesty and description and i believe in honesty and the role descriptions so I want the role descriptions so I want the role descriptions so I want percentages of time because ministry is percentages of time because ministry is percentages of time because ministry is so fluid right well you know it's like so fluid right well you know it's like so fluid right well you know it's like rich what do you do on a given week for rich what do you do on a given week for rich what do you do on a given week for me I probably work forty percent on me I probably work forty percent on me I probably work forty percent on leadership issues probably thirty leadership issues probably thirty leadership issues probably thirty percent on elder issues another twenty percent on elder issues another twenty percent on elder issues another twenty percent on problems in ten percent on percent on problems in ten percent on percent on problems in ten percent on ministry and so then we look at that we ministry and so then we look at that we ministry and so then we look at that we actually i put it up on Apple TV in my actually i put it up on Apple TV in my actually i put it up on Apple TV in my office I do a paperless office no desk office I do a paperless office no desk office I do a paperless office no desk etc so I just put them up on the screen etc so I just put them up on the screen etc so I just put them up on the screen I say was so rich you know here's what's I say was so rich you know here's what's I say was so rich you know here's what's last year's of yours what do you think last year's of yours what do you think last year's of yours what do you think this should be at this year this should be at this year this should be at this year so it's a dialogue we enter into we do so it's a dialogue we enter into we do so it's a dialogue we enter into we do some correction that they may or may not some correction that they may or may not some correction that they may or may not enjoy but it's right straight face to enjoy but it's right straight face to enjoy but it's right straight face to face with their supervisor during that face with their supervisor during that face with their supervisor during that review process that's good that's a review process that's good that's a review process that's good that's a great even you know a great tip that great even you know a great tip that great even you know a great tip that hopefully people are picking up there to hopefully people are picking up there to hopefully people are picking up there to talk about not just here are the things talk about not just here are the things talk about not just here are the things you should be working on but let's wait you should be working on but let's wait you should be working on but let's wait them you know from a time and output not

them you know from a time and output not them you know from a time and output not just the you know the time but also the just the you know the time but also the just the you know the time but also the results okay this is what we really need results okay this is what we really need results okay this is what we really need you to focus on in this coming year you to focus on in this coming year you to focus on in this coming year that's that's fantastic well you have to that's that's fantastic well you have to that's that's fantastic well you have to do that if we believe that our vision do that if we believe that our vision do that if we believe that our vision statement should be reflected in our statement should be reflected in our statement should be reflected in our budget first and then in our people's budget first and then in our people's budget first and then in our people's time so how is our vision statement time so how is our vision statement time so how is our vision statement being reflected in what this person is being reflected in what this person is being reflected in what this person is doing because I can't handle a doing because I can't handle a doing because I can't handle a three-page task list right it's like I three-page task list right it's like I three-page task list right it's like I don't know what that really means I've don't know what that really means I've don't know what that really means I've been a one-page role description sorted been a one-page role description sorted been a one-page role description sorted and weighted by percentages of time now and weighted by percentages of time now and weighted by percentages of time now that makes sense to me mhm very cool that makes sense to me mhm very cool that makes sense to me mhm very cool very cool well when you actually get to very cool well when you actually get to very cool well when you actually get to the releasing of these leaders what have the releasing of these leaders what have the releasing of these leaders what have you learned in that process you know you learned in that process you know you learned in that process you know what actually comes down to the okay you what actually comes down to the okay you what actually comes down to the okay you know they're stepping out they're going know they're stepping out they're going know they're stepping out they're going to go do something else how you know to go do something else how you know to go do something else how you know what how do you do that in a healthy way what how do you do that in a healthy way what how do you do that in a healthy way that Bennett that honors them and honors that Bennett that honors them and honors that Bennett that honors them and honors the church it's really hard and really the church it's really hard and really the church it's really hard and really there can be a lot of tears because you there can be a lot of tears because you there can be a lot of tears because you don't want to let the person go you know don't want to let the person go you know don't want to let the person go you know John Hurst has a year and a half left John Hurst has a year and a half left John Hurst has a year and a half left Tammy and I were talking about that in Tammy and I were talking about that in Tammy and I were talking about that in the car in our morning starbucks date the car in our morning starbucks date the car in our morning starbucks date and it's like it's going to be really and it's like it's going to be really and it's like it's going to be really hard because he's doing tremendous work hard because he's doing tremendous work hard because he's doing tremendous work we love him tremendously he's esteemed we love him tremendously he's esteemed we love him tremendously he's esteemed he's super valuable but you have to end he's super valuable but you have to end he's super valuable but you have to end the conversation in your head by saying the conversation in your head by saying the conversation in your head by saying if I keep him it would be wonderful for if I keep him it would be wonderful for if I keep him it would be wonderful for us and terrible for the the church at us and terrible for the the church at us and terrible for the the church at large because there will not be another large because there will not be another large because there will not be another person trained to do that so I'm 56 and person trained to do that so I'm 56 and person trained to do that so I'm 56 and that means i only get like in training that means i only get like in training that means i only get like in training XP as i only get like two or three more

XP as i only get like two or three more XP as i only get like two or three more cycles of this mm-hmm so I better give cycles of this mm-hmm so I better give cycles of this mm-hmm so I better give it away now right and then you know you it away now right and then you know you it away now right and then you know you cry over it but then you also prepare cry over it but then you also prepare cry over it but then you also prepare them you help them with the resume you them you help them with the resume you them you help them with the resume you have them contacts you are their have them contacts you are their have them contacts you are their references what better recognize huge it references what better recognize huge it references what better recognize huge it to say Oh rich and I work together for to say Oh rich and I work together for to say Oh rich and I work together for four years it's a four-year position I four years it's a four-year position I four years it's a four-year position I love him tremendously love him tremendously love him tremendously he now needs to go lead an entire church he now needs to go lead an entire church he now needs to go lead an entire church this is not the right place for him any this is not the right place for him any this is not the right place for him any longer right well the thing that I love longer right well the thing that I love longer right well the thing that I love that you're pushing on your challenging that you're pushing on your challenging that you're pushing on your challenging us here today I think particularly in us here today I think particularly in us here today I think particularly in these kind of senior roles executive these kind of senior roles executive these kind of senior roles executive pastor maybe even lead pastor a lot of pastor maybe even lead pastor a lot of pastor maybe even lead pastor a lot of times we don't have clear models of what times we don't have clear models of what times we don't have clear models of what that looks like to replicate those that looks like to replicate those that looks like to replicate those people because what what we we say like people because what what we we say like people because what what we we say like well yeah I'm training people around me well yeah I'm training people around me well yeah I'm training people around me but I'm gonna be here for a long time but I'm gonna be here for a long time but I'm gonna be here for a long time I'm not going anywhere which is you know I'm not going anywhere which is you know I'm not going anywhere which is you know I'm my sense from from your story you I'm my sense from from your story you I'm my sense from from your story you know there's no plan on going anywhere know there's no plan on going anywhere know there's no plan on going anywhere so hey why you know how what do i how do so hey why you know how what do i how do so hey why you know how what do i how do I train people and actually you know I train people and actually you know I train people and actually you know release them and I love what you're kind release them and I love what you're kind release them and I love what you're kind of laying out here to say no like this of laying out here to say no like this of laying out here to say no like this is ultimately about getting them to step is ultimately about getting them to step is ultimately about getting them to step out in other places and I totally agree out in other places and I totally agree out in other places and I totally agree on the reference thing if you've done on the reference thing if you've done on the reference thing if you've done any hiring in the church you realize you any hiring in the church you realize you any hiring in the church you realize you get these people and their in their get these people and their in their get these people and their in their resumes and you know a lot of times resumes and you know a lot of times resumes and you know a lot of times their supervisors aren't on that those their supervisors aren't on that those their supervisors aren't on that those list of people to co and every time they list of people to co and every time they list of people to co and every time they are that person goes to the top of the are that person goes to the top of the are that person goes to the top of the list in my book yeah we want to be their list in my book yeah we want to be their list in my book yeah we want to be their champion yeah there's something there if champion yeah there's something there if champion yeah there's something there if their supervisor is saying yes I'd love their supervisor is saying yes I'd love their supervisor is saying yes I'd love to to recommend you anything else you to to recommend you anything else you to to recommend you anything else you want to share on this before we pivot want to share on this before we pivot want to share on this before we pivot into the last part of our episode the

into the last part of our episode the into the last part of our episode the lightning round it's a lot of fun it's a lightning round it's a lot of fun it's a lightning round it's a lot of fun it's a lot of hard work it's a lot of lot of hard work it's a lot of lot of hard work it's a lot of investment but I think the person who investment but I think the person who investment but I think the person who grows the most is me is they're just grows the most is me is they're just grows the most is me is they're just feeding it in my life you know you can feeding it in my life you know you can feeding it in my life you know you can look at the whole reverse mentoring book look at the whole reverse mentoring book look at the whole reverse mentoring book and I'm just learning all the time and I and I'm just learning all the time and I and I'm just learning all the time and I one of the reasons that I stay in one of the reasons that I stay in one of the reasons that I stay in ministry is for guys like this it's just ministry is for guys like this it's just ministry is for guys like this it's just so much fun to be around this is the so much fun to be around this is the so much fun to be around this is the unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary we're gonna jump into taught in seminary we're gonna jump into taught in seminary we're gonna jump into the lightning round that part of the the lightning round that part of the the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask Sarah pies do I get episode where we ask Sarah pies do I get episode where we ask Sarah pies do I get a prize by you might exactly you know a prize by you might exactly you know a prize by you might exactly you know similar questions so we're today we got similar questions so we're today we got similar questions so we're today we got David Fletcher super excited to have him David Fletcher super excited to have him David Fletcher super excited to have him from evie free and Fulton also from X from evie free and Fulton also from X from evie free and Fulton also from X pastor a great site you need to check pastor a great site you need to check pastor a great site you need to check out and it's not X as in previous or out and it's not X as in previous or out and it's not X as in previous or done with pastor its executive pastor done with pastor its executive pastor done with pastor its executive pastor you know what's an online resource you know what's an online resource you know what's an online resource you're using these days that's helping you're using these days that's helping you're using these days that's helping your ministry well I like unsummon airy your ministry well I like unsummon airy your ministry well I like unsummon airy nothing on that oh no really I found it nothing on that oh no really I found it nothing on that oh no really I found it you know when your name came forward as you know when your name came forward as you know when your name came forward as a a a possible speaker at the church and then possible speaker at the church and then possible speaker at the church and then love leadership network other than that love leadership network other than that love leadership network other than that i'm at like 75 sites a day i'm always i'm at like 75 sites a day i'm always i'm at like 75 sites a day i'm always trolling for news and just always out trolling for news and just always out trolling for news and just always out there so i used a lot of aggregation there so i used a lot of aggregation there so i used a lot of aggregation things like you know news or articles things like you know news or articles things like you know news or articles whatever they're calling it on the ipad whatever they're calling it on the ipad whatever they're calling it on the ipad yeah very cool very cool what's a book yeah very cool very cool what's a book yeah very cool very cool what's a book you've read in the last don't know six you've read in the last don't know six you've read in the last don't know six months to a year that's had an impact on months to a year that's had an impact on months to a year that's had an impact on your thinking in ministry ooh that would

your thinking in ministry ooh that would your thinking in ministry ooh that would be night by elie why sell and night is be night by elie why sell and night is be night by elie why sell and night is part of a three book series where why part of a three book series where why part of a three book series where why sell document going into the sell document going into the sell document going into the concentration camp and the most the concentration camp and the most the concentration camp and the most the famous phrase that comes out of that is famous phrase that comes out of that is famous phrase that comes out of that is that when he went in he says God died that when he went in he says God died that when he went in he says God died for him and he became an agnostic / for him and he became an agnostic / for him and he became an agnostic / atheist for the rest of his life the atheist for the rest of his life the atheist for the rest of his life the pain the horror was too much and that pain the horror was too much and that pain the horror was too much and that you know I heard that phrase a long time you know I heard that phrase a long time you know I heard that phrase a long time and I thought I need to read the book and I thought I need to read the book and I thought I need to read the book where it came from it's incredibly where it came from it's incredibly where it came from it's incredibly well-written an award-winning book it's well-written an award-winning book it's well-written an award-winning book it's short it's deep it's powerful and it's short it's deep it's powerful and it's short it's deep it's powerful and it's it's harmful just to read it it's just it's harmful just to read it it's just it's harmful just to read it it's just it it's hard to wrap your your mind and it it's hard to wrap your your mind and it it's hard to wrap your your mind and soul around that much pain hmmm soul around that much pain hmmm soul around that much pain hmmm interesting interesting if you could get interesting interesting if you could get interesting interesting if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today 15 minutes with any leader alive today 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get that with him who would you want to get that with him who would you want to get that with him why well since you said alive today that why well since you said alive today that why well since you said alive today that there is it um oh that be Tim Cook oh there is it um oh that be Tim Cook oh there is it um oh that be Tim Cook oh nice for my be like yeah so hey cook you nice for my be like yeah so hey cook you nice for my be like yeah so hey cook you know you followed steve ja Steve Jobs know you followed steve ja Steve Jobs know you followed steve ja Steve Jobs mm-hmm let's talk about that let's talk mm-hmm let's talk about that let's talk mm-hmm let's talk about that let's talk about the development of the Apple watch about the development of the Apple watch about the development of the Apple watch let's talk about how to live beyond let's talk about how to live beyond let's talk about how to live beyond somebody shadow and at this most the somebody shadow and at this most the somebody shadow and at this most the world's most successful company what world's most successful company what world's most successful company what does all that mean mm-hmm that's does all that mean mm-hmm that's does all that mean mm-hmm that's fascinating you know he would be an fascinating you know he would be an fascinating you know he would be an interesting one because from a market interesting one because from a market interesting one because from a market value point of view you know there was value point of view you know there was value point of view you know there was this sense of is it going to survive

this sense of is it going to survive this sense of is it going to survive post jobs and actually the opposite has post jobs and actually the opposite has post jobs and actually the opposite has happened it's actually flourished under happened it's actually flourished under happened it's actually flourished under tim cook but it's obviously totally tim cook but it's obviously totally tim cook but it's obviously totally different leader right he doesn't have different leader right he doesn't have different leader right he doesn't have you know he's just a totally different you know he's just a totally different you know he's just a totally different guy and seems to be you know forging his guy and seems to be you know forging his guy and seems to be you know forging his own way which is amazing so own way which is amazing so own way which is amazing so it's great well David I appreciate you it's great well David I appreciate you it's great well David I appreciate you on the show today when you want to kick on the show today when you want to kick on the show today when you want to kick back have some fun relax get out of the back have some fun relax get out of the back have some fun relax get out of the office what do you like to do for fun office what do you like to do for fun office what do you like to do for fun scuba diving really yeah there's no scuba diving really yeah there's no scuba diving really yeah there's no conversation underwater okay dr. V I conversation underwater okay dr. V I conversation underwater okay dr. V I know I've been diving for a while it's know I've been diving for a while it's know I've been diving for a while it's just great it's it's athletic you know just great it's it's athletic you know just great it's it's athletic you know we're out there you see some amazing we're out there you see some amazing we're out there you see some amazing stuff you get with some great folks and stuff you get with some great folks and stuff you get with some great folks and the thing about diving it's so different the thing about diving it's so different the thing about diving it's so different from the church world is diving is black from the church world is diving is black from the church world is diving is black and white you do this at 15 feet you do and white you do this at 15 feet you do and white you do this at 15 feet you do this at 30 feet here are the absolute this at 30 feet here are the absolute this at 30 feet here are the absolute rules no bending the rules whatsoever rules no bending the rules whatsoever rules no bending the rules whatsoever church world is well we've got a lot of church world is well we've got a lot of church world is well we've got a lot of gray we have the absolute but then you gray we have the absolute but then you gray we have the absolute but then you know it's like well how are we going to know it's like well how are we going to know it's like well how are we going to help this person and all these ins and help this person and all these ins and help this person and all these ins and outs is like no not in diving this is outs is like no not in diving this is outs is like no not in diving this is the rules we're done yeah you do this or the rules we're done yeah you do this or the rules we're done yeah you do this or bad things happen so that's right very bad things happen so that's right very bad things happen so that's right very cool well David if people want to get in cool well David if people want to get in cool well David if people want to get in touch with you or the church or you know touch with you or the church or you know touch with you or the church or you know how can they do that what's the best way how can they do that what's the best way how can they do that what's the best way for them to reach out off the ex pastor for them to reach out off the ex pastor for them to reach out off the ex pastor that org website is nice yeah X pastor that org website is nice yeah X pastor that org website is nice yeah X pastor gorg great thank you so much David gorg great thank you so much David gorg great thank you so much David really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show today you bet Thanks thank you for today you bet Thanks thank you for today you bet Thanks thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you

connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on Twitter add can use connect with rich on Twitter add can use connect with rich on Twitter add rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset maneri com it includes links to unset maneri com it includes links to unset maneri com it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary