Clayton Hentzel & Ben Ellefritz on Reproducing, Releasing & Replacing Leaders in Your Church

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach regal is the only theater company with a regal is the only theater company with a regal is the only theater company with a dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out regal theater church com for more regal theater church com for more regal theater church com for more information on locations your church information on locations your church information on locations your church could use this is the unset Maneri could use this is the unset Maneri could use this is the unset Maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary welcome to the unsummon airy seminary welcome to the unsummon airy seminary welcome to the unsummon airy podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry ministry help to drive our ministry ministry help to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast well hey everybody on seminary podcast well hey everybody on seminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the unsub inori podcast my welcome to the unsub inori podcast my welcome to the unsub inori podcast my name is rich the host around these parts name is rich the host around these parts name is rich the host around these parts i'm so glad that you've decided to join i'm so glad that you've decided to join i'm so glad that you've decided to join us today we like to bring on guests on a us today we like to bring on guests on a us today we like to bring on guests on a regular basis to help us think through regular basis to help us think through regular basis to help us think through some of those issues that are impacting some of those issues that are impacting some of those issues that are impacting your church and today you've got a your church and today you've got a your church and today you've got a two-for-one special which is should be a two-for-one special which is should be a two-for-one special which is should be a fun day today we've got leaders from the fun day today we've got leaders from the fun day today we've got leaders from the crossing this is a fantastic church with crossing this is a fantastic church with crossing this is a fantastic church with actually I believe you have ten actually I believe you have ten actually I believe you have ten locations across the Midwest in four locations across the Midwest in four locations across the Midwest in four different states is that true that's different states is that true that's different states is that true that's true wow that's that's amazing so this

true wow that's that's amazing so this true wow that's that's amazing so this is a fantastic church if you if you is a fantastic church if you if you is a fantastic church if you if you haven't plugged in and learned more haven't plugged in and learned more haven't plugged in and learned more about the crossing you really should so about the crossing you really should so about the crossing you really should so why don't we I'm going to let you why don't we I'm going to let you why don't we I'm going to let you introduce yourself and what do we jump introduce yourself and what do we jump introduce yourself and what do we jump through tell us about your role tell us through tell us about your role tell us through tell us about your role tell us about the church give us a flavor for about the church give us a flavor for about the church give us a flavor for what's going on at the crossing ok my what's going on at the crossing ok my what's going on at the crossing ok my name is Clayton hensel uh I've been a name is Clayton hensel uh I've been a name is Clayton hensel uh I've been a part of the church for 10 11 or 12 years part of the church for 10 11 or 12 years part of the church for 10 11 or 12 years basically soon as I graduated from bible basically soon as I graduated from bible basically soon as I graduated from bible college and I was a youth pastor and college and I was a youth pastor and college and I was a youth pastor and then they were getting ready to start then they were getting ready to start then they were getting ready to start their first multi-site and all the their first multi-site and all the their first multi-site and all the people that they wanted said no and so people that they wanted said no and so people that they wanted said no and so they had a they said well hey we could they had a they said well hey we could they had a they said well hey we could send Clayton and send Clayton and send Clayton and I said yes and came up here and started I said yes and came up here and started I said yes and came up here and started this location which is in Macomb a town this location which is in Macomb a town this location which is in Macomb a town of about 12,000 people with about 8,000 of about 12,000 people with about 8,000 of about 12,000 people with about 8,000 college kids and been doing that here college kids and been doing that here college kids and been doing that here and then over time I started helping to and then over time I started helping to and then over time I started helping to oversee our other locations while still oversee our other locations while still oversee our other locations while still at this location but then by the grace at this location but then by the grace at this location but then by the grace of God we got lucky as all get out and of God we got lucky as all get out and of God we got lucky as all get out and we found a a guy who's now a great we found a a guy who's now a great we found a a guy who's now a great friend and partner in ministry mr. Ben friend and partner in ministry mr. Ben friend and partner in ministry mr. Ben Ella Fritz and I'm gonna let you hear a Ella Fritz and I'm gonna let you hear a Ella Fritz and I'm gonna let you hear a little bit about him yeah like I said little bit about him yeah like I said little bit about him yeah like I said I'm I've been Oh fritz and uh I've I'm I've been Oh fritz and uh I've I'm I've been Oh fritz and uh I've always been a part of the crossing I've always been a part of the crossing I've always been a part of the crossing I've kind of had a different journey to get kind of had a different journey to get kind of had a different journey to get where we're at i was actually an elder where we're at i was actually an elder where we're at i was actually an elder at a church that now is a crossing

at a church that now is a crossing at a church that now is a crossing location so I've grown up with guys like location so I've grown up with guys like location so I've grown up with guys like Clayton and and some of the other guys Clayton and and some of the other guys Clayton and and some of the other guys are working in the crossing and so it are working in the crossing and so it are working in the crossing and so it was a it was a transition from being a was a it was a transition from being a was a it was a transition from being a being an elder at a church that was being an elder at a church that was being an elder at a church that was acquired by the crossing to being a acquired by the crossing to being a acquired by the crossing to being a high-caliber volunteer and while I was a high-caliber volunteer and while I was a high-caliber volunteer and while I was a principal in schools for a decade and principal in schools for a decade and principal in schools for a decade and now being on staff and and being a part now being on staff and and being a part now being on staff and and being a part of a great team here at the crossing and of a great team here at the crossing and of a great team here at the crossing and specifically in the Macomb location nice specifically in the Macomb location nice specifically in the Macomb location nice very clear what are you guys a flavor very clear what are you guys a flavor very clear what are you guys a flavor been of kind of the ministry of the been of kind of the ministry of the been of kind of the ministry of the crossing if people were to overcome this crossing if people were to overcome this crossing if people were to overcome this weekend what would they experience weekend what would they experience weekend what would they experience what's the church like well there's a what's the church like well there's a what's the church like well there's a few things that are just embedded in our few things that are just embedded in our few things that are just embedded in our DNA or the crossing one of the things DNA or the crossing one of the things DNA or the crossing one of the things you'll hear from the second you get in you'll hear from the second you get in you'll hear from the second you get in is that we exist to help people find an is that we exist to help people find an is that we exist to help people find an intimate personal relationship with intimate personal relationship with intimate personal relationship with Jesus and that is just what we're what Jesus and that is just what we're what Jesus and that is just what we're what our foundation looks like and what we our foundation looks like and what we our foundation looks like and what we build upon and I think that's what sets build upon and I think that's what sets build upon and I think that's what sets the crossing apart from a lot of other the crossing apart from a lot of other the crossing apart from a lot of other churches as that is our goal it's not churches as that is our goal it's not churches as that is our goal it's not about showing up on Sunday it's not about showing up on Sunday it's not about showing up on Sunday it's not about coming to a building it's about coming to a building it's about coming to a building it's literally about helping people find that literally about helping people find that literally about helping people find that relationship and so with that comes relationship and so with that comes relationship and so with that comes parts of ministry and they become parts of ministry and they become parts of ministry and they become interesting because when you open your interesting because when you open your interesting because when you open your doors to anybody and everybody you have doors to anybody and everybody you have doors to anybody and everybody you have to be careful what you ask for me to be careful what you ask for me to be careful what you ask for me there's some work that goes into that there's some work that goes into that there's some work that goes into that but no greater reward then goes into but no greater reward then goes into but no greater reward then goes into that so just seeing the crossing as a that so just seeing the crossing as a that so just seeing the crossing as a whole i mean people that drive miles whole i mean people that drive miles whole i mean people that drive miles just to be part of our church and being just to be part of our church and being just to be part of our church and being spread out like we are we definitely spread out like we are we definitely spread out like we are we definitely have an opportunity to have a great have an opportunity to have a great have an opportunity to have a great impact on the midwest just because of impact on the midwest just because of impact on the midwest just because of the crossing brand the crossing brand the crossing brand and helping people find their and helping people find their and helping people find their relationship that changes their life relationship that changes their life relationship that changes their life forever hmm very clear well Clayton you forever hmm very clear well Clayton you forever hmm very clear well Clayton you know raising up leaders I must be a real know raising up leaders I must be a real know raising up leaders I must be a real issue in a church like the crossing you

issue in a church like the crossing you issue in a church like the crossing you know as you've multiplied new campuses know as you've multiplied new campuses know as you've multiplied new campuses you know even as your campus has grown you know even as your campus has grown you know even as your campus has grown you know that's that's got to be a you know that's that's got to be a you know that's that's got to be a complex you know piece of what you're complex you know piece of what you're complex you know piece of what you're you know you're you're dealing with can you know you're you're dealing with can you know you're you're dealing with can you give us a sense of kind of how do you give us a sense of kind of how do you give us a sense of kind of how do you think about raising up and then you think about raising up and then you think about raising up and then releasing leaders at the crossing well releasing leaders at the crossing well releasing leaders at the crossing well what's kind of happen to the crossing is what's kind of happen to the crossing is what's kind of happen to the crossing is is we do mega church ministry in is we do mega church ministry in is we do mega church ministry in miniature towns hmm so we don't have miniature towns hmm so we don't have miniature towns hmm so we don't have there's we have like if we're lucky a there's we have like if we're lucky a there's we have like if we're lucky a Walmart in the town that we're putting a Walmart in the town that we're putting a Walmart in the town that we're putting a location in so for us to go out and hire location in so for us to go out and hire location in so for us to go out and hire uh people and get them to move to where uh people and get them to move to where uh people and get them to move to where we do ministry is basically impossible we do ministry is basically impossible we do ministry is basically impossible uh there's no Chili's in any of our uh there's no Chili's in any of our uh there's no Chili's in any of our locations there's no chick-fil-a in any locations there's no chick-fil-a in any locations there's no chick-fil-a in any of our locations there's no target in of our locations there's no target in of our locations there's no target in any of our local we are we are in any of our local we are we are in any of our local we are we are in cornfields hmm and so um a long time ago cornfields hmm and so um a long time ago cornfields hmm and so um a long time ago we got connected with the church out in we got connected with the church out in we got connected with the church out in post falls idaho called real life post falls idaho called real life post falls idaho called real life ministries and he was talking about the ministries and he was talking about the ministries and he was talking about the difference between a high school coach difference between a high school coach difference between a high school coach and a football coach arena and a college and a football coach arena and a college and a football coach arena and a college coach and a high school coach has to win coach and a high school coach has to win coach and a high school coach has to win with the players in his community hmm a with the players in his community hmm a with the players in his community hmm a college coach gets to recruit people college coach gets to recruit people college coach gets to recruit people from all over the the states and then of from all over the the states and then of from all over the the states and then of course the NFL they get a pick who they course the NFL they get a pick who they course the NFL they get a pick who they want and pay him exorbitant amounts of want and pay him exorbitant amounts of want and pay him exorbitant amounts of money right but a high school money right but a high school money right but a high school championship team is is bread mmm they

championship team is is bread mmm they championship team is is bread mmm they are developed and we started looking are developed and we started looking are developed and we started looking around and going well why don't we do around and going well why don't we do around and going well why don't we do the exact same thing that's a great the exact same thing that's a great the exact same thing that's a great distinction I that's a great word distinction I that's a great word distinction I that's a great word picture just to kind of pull apart in picture just to kind of pull apart in picture just to kind of pull apart in people's brains the difference between a people's brains the difference between a people's brains the difference between a high school coach and a college guy high school coach and a college guy high school coach and a college guy appreciate that sorry to interrupt keep appreciate that sorry to interrupt keep appreciate that sorry to interrupt keep going no you're fine so we just we began going no you're fine so we just we began going no you're fine so we just we began to double down if we realize that um as to double down if we realize that um as to double down if we realize that um as times moved on that money was not going times moved on that money was not going times moved on that money was not going to be our biggest challenge although to be our biggest challenge although to be our biggest challenge although because we do ministry at such we do because we do ministry at such we do because we do ministry at such we do ministry at a very effective rate but ministry at a very effective rate but ministry at a very effective rate but we're we're we're able to get buildings for almost nothing able to get buildings for almost nothing able to get buildings for almost nothing now we're a lot of those things that now we're a lot of those things that now we're a lot of those things that moves the hurdle was who's going to be moves the hurdle was who's going to be moves the hurdle was who's going to be the person we could take a town for the person we could take a town for the person we could take a town for Jesus if we had a team and the way we Jesus if we had a team and the way we Jesus if we had a team and the way we have to do that though is you have to have to do that though is you have to have to do that though is you have to have a pipeline and that pipeline has to have a pipeline and that pipeline has to have a pipeline and that pipeline has to be so unbelievably packed full of people be so unbelievably packed full of people be so unbelievably packed full of people so that way it can keep up with the so that way it can keep up with the so that way it can keep up with the vision and keep up with the vision and keep up with the vision and keep up with the opportunities and so specifically here opportunities and so specifically here opportunities and so specifically here at the Macomb campus but a lot of other at the Macomb campus but a lot of other at the Macomb campus but a lot of other locations do a great job of this I locations do a great job of this I locations do a great job of this I wouldn't say we doubled down we wouldn't say we doubled down we wouldn't say we doubled down we quadrupled down in the area of of quadrupled down in the area of of quadrupled down in the area of of raising people up and that was kind of raising people up and that was kind of raising people up and that was kind of forced because uh weary came to grips forced because uh weary came to grips forced because uh weary came to grips with the fact that I'm not going to be with the fact that I'm not going to be with the fact that I'm not going to be the pastor in Macomb a hundred years the pastor in Macomb a hundred years the pastor in Macomb a hundred years from now I somebody else will take my from now I somebody else will take my from now I somebody else will take my spot so why don't I start raising up spot so why don't I start raising up spot so why don't I start raising up somebody now and that's what that's kind somebody now and that's what that's kind somebody now and that's what that's kind of how it started for us absolutely love of how it started for us absolutely love of how it started for us absolutely love event you know Vander blue man says event you know Vander blue man says event you know Vander blue man says every every pastor is every pastor it is

every every pastor is every pastor it is every every pastor is every pastor it is an interim position you know we all an interim position you know we all an interim position you know we all receive this ministry from someone else receive this ministry from someone else receive this ministry from someone else and we're going to pass it on to someone and we're going to pass it on to someone and we're going to pass it on to someone else even if it's in intro ministry for else even if it's in intro ministry for else even if it's in intro ministry for 20 30 years it's still interim someone 20 30 years it's still interim someone 20 30 years it's still interim someone else is going to take this ball and run else is going to take this ball and run else is going to take this ball and run with it and we've gotta you know really with it and we've gotta you know really with it and we've gotta you know really develop a plan for that maybe Ben you develop a plan for that maybe Ben you develop a plan for that maybe Ben you could kind of talk about what does that could kind of talk about what does that could kind of talk about what does that look like practically at you know your look like practically at you know your look like practically at you know your campus how have you began to kind of campus how have you began to kind of campus how have you began to kind of develop a plan around you know raising develop a plan around you know raising develop a plan around you know raising up leaders one of the things that we've up leaders one of the things that we've up leaders one of the things that we've found is that too many times adults found is that too many times adults found is that too many times adults decide what adults can and can't do we decide what adults can and can't do we decide what adults can and can't do we answer are you willing to step up and answer are you willing to step up and answer are you willing to step up and serve are you willing to step up and be serve are you willing to step up and be serve are you willing to step up and be a leader or be a team member before we a leader or be a team member before we a leader or be a team member before we ever give them the opportunity so we ever give them the opportunity so we ever give them the opportunity so we don't even ask them we just assume the don't even ask them we just assume the don't even ask them we just assume the answer is going to be now so so we've answer is going to be now so so we've answer is going to be now so so we've had we've got to actually force that in had we've got to actually force that in had we've got to actually force that in a lot of issues every single time that a lot of issues every single time that a lot of issues every single time that the staff here turns in a ministry the staff here turns in a ministry the staff here turns in a ministry report the last question on that is if report the last question on that is if report the last question on that is if you had to turn the keys over today who you had to turn the keys over today who you had to turn the keys over today who are you turning those keys over to so it are you turning those keys over to so it are you turning those keys over to so it Deb release it never leaves their mind Deb release it never leaves their mind Deb release it never leaves their mind and that's the last thing on every and that's the last thing on every and that's the last thing on every single ministry port that goes to our single ministry port that goes to our single ministry port that goes to our elders that says if I had to do that Who elders that says if I had to do that Who elders that says if I had to do that Who am I Who am I going to do that with am I Who am I going to do that with am I Who am I going to do that with we've also set up you know opportunities we've also set up you know opportunities we've also set up you know opportunities that make sure that you're not the on that make sure that you're not the on that make sure that you're not the on staff that you're not the person that's staff that you're not the person that's staff that you're not the person that's doing all the work who are you walking doing all the work who are you walking doing all the work who are you walking along along along side you who are you making sure that side you who are you making sure that side you who are you making sure that you're coaching in that everything from you're coaching in that everything from you're coaching in that everything from almost having to force Sundays where we almost having to force Sundays where we almost having to force Sundays where we don't we don't have any staff that are don't we don't have any staff that are don't we don't have any staff that are doing any of the roles we have staff doing any of the roles we have staff doing any of the roles we have staff that are managing the systems that that that are managing the systems that that that are managing the systems that that make the rolls go so we really wanted to make the rolls go so we really wanted to make the rolls go so we really wanted to put out in front of people all the time put out in front of people all the time put out in front of people all the time that you need to be replacing yourself that you need to be replacing yourself that you need to be replacing yourself every day and in fact if you're not every day and in fact if you're not every day and in fact if you're not you're actually putting a lid on the

you're actually putting a lid on the you're actually putting a lid on the ministry that we can do here that's very ministry that we can do here that's very ministry that we can do here that's very good I don't want people to miss that I good I don't want people to miss that I good I don't want people to miss that I love even just that one question and if love even just that one question and if love even just that one question and if you had to hand the keys over who would you had to hand the keys over who would you had to hand the keys over who would you hand that over I think there's a lot you hand that over I think there's a lot you hand that over I think there's a lot of church leaders that are listening of church leaders that are listening of church leaders that are listening today that are thinking I'm not sure how today that are thinking I'm not sure how today that are thinking I'm not sure how I'd answer that for my position I'm just I'd answer that for my position I'm just I'd answer that for my position I'm just I just don't know what that you know who I just don't know what that you know who I just don't know what that you know who that is you know Clayton even you know that is you know Clayton even you know that is you know Clayton even you know pushing some of that I would imagine pushing some of that I would imagine pushing some of that I would imagine that even in myself now that raises some that even in myself now that raises some that even in myself now that raises some internal questions that maybe raises a internal questions that maybe raises a internal questions that maybe raises a bit of you know pain in my life around bit of you know pain in my life around bit of you know pain in my life around gosh I'm not sure I want to hand over gosh I'm not sure I want to hand over gosh I'm not sure I want to hand over what what I'm doing I kind of find a bit what what I'm doing I kind of find a bit what what I'm doing I kind of find a bit of you know comfort inn in what I'm of you know comfort inn in what I'm of you know comfort inn in what I'm leading is just everybody at the leading is just everybody at the leading is just everybody at the crossing they're just all benevolent crossing they're just all benevolent crossing they're just all benevolent people that want to raise up other folks people that want to raise up other folks people that want to raise up other folks around them no no uh we're talking about around them no no uh we're talking about around them no no uh we're talking about a culture change in culture change isn't a culture change in culture change isn't a culture change in culture change isn't isn't fast and it's never easy I think isn't fast and it's never easy I think isn't fast and it's never easy I think Rick Warren or uh Don Wilson said Rick Warren or uh Don Wilson said Rick Warren or uh Don Wilson said there's no growth without change no there's no growth without change no there's no growth without change no change without loss no loss without pain change without loss no loss without pain change without loss no loss without pain so we've kind of embraced the hurt that so we've kind of embraced the hurt that so we've kind of embraced the hurt that comes with this uh this is some of your comes with this uh this is some of your comes with this uh this is some of your podcast people probably should know uh podcast people probably should know uh podcast people probably should know uh I'm 33 Vince 36 and we are in a constant I'm 33 Vince 36 and we are in a constant I'm 33 Vince 36 and we are in a constant state of working on who's going to state of working on who's going to state of working on who's going to replace us this is it we're not having replace us this is it we're not having replace us this is it we're not having this conversation at 50 we're not having this conversation at 50 we're not having this conversation at 50 we're not having this conversation at 45 we're having this conversation at 45 we're having this conversation at 45 we're having this in our 30s because we believe in it this in our 30s because we believe in it this in our 30s because we believe in it and um we've seen some crazy things and um we've seen some crazy things and um we've seen some crazy things happen because of it and maybe we'll get happen because of it and maybe we'll get happen because of it and maybe we'll get back to it later about our volunteer back to it later about our volunteer back to it later about our volunteer weekend but people are always being

weekend but people are always being weekend but people are always being asked to do something Salvation Army's asked to do something Salvation Army's asked to do something Salvation Army's asking people to do something there's asking people to do something there's asking people to do something there's always a not-for-profit there's a bell always a not-for-profit there's a bell always a not-for-profit there's a bell to be rung there's people are always to be rung there's people are always to be rung there's people are always being asked the question is do you being asked the question is do you being asked the question is do you believe that what you do is the most believe that what you do is the most believe that what you do is the most good has the most effect for the good has the most effect for the good has the most effect for the Advancement of the kingdom of God and if Advancement of the kingdom of God and if Advancement of the kingdom of God and if so and you believe in that don't you so and you believe in that don't you so and you believe in that don't you think that other people would want an think that other people would want an think that other people would want an opportunity to make the opportunity to make the opportunity to make the life matter there people who are putting life matter there people who are putting life matter there people who are putting handles on buckets all day long and at handles on buckets all day long and at handles on buckets all day long and at the end of the day they when they go the end of the day they when they go the end of the day they when they go home from work they don't feel like they home from work they don't feel like they home from work they don't feel like they made the world a better place or that made the world a better place or that made the world a better place or that they made a difference in a person's they made a difference in a person's they made a difference in a person's life we have that outlet by being life we have that outlet by being life we have that outlet by being ambassadors for Christ we have an ambassadors for Christ we have an ambassadors for Christ we have an opportunity to be world changes changers opportunity to be world changes changers opportunity to be world changes changers even if it's only at a local level even if it's only at a local level even if it's only at a local level because you're changing somebody's world because you're changing somebody's world because you're changing somebody's world and we wonder we want to capitalize on and we wonder we want to capitalize on and we wonder we want to capitalize on that and for people to see that your that and for people to see that your that and for people to see that your value at this church is now not in what value at this church is now not in what value at this church is now not in what you can do but in how many people you you can do but in how many people you you can do but in how many people you can raise up because you will do can raise up because you will do can raise up because you will do infinitely more ministry three people infinitely more ministry three people infinitely more ministry three people than you will ever do by yourself so than you will ever do by yourself so than you will ever do by yourself so true you know I think one of the things true you know I think one of the things true you know I think one of the things I love that you're hitting on which is 0 I love that you're hitting on which is 0 I love that you're hitting on which is 0 is a shift for church leaders that are is a shift for church leaders that are is a shift for church leaders that are wanting to make an impact in their in wanting to make an impact in their in wanting to make an impact in their in their community and its really a two their community and its really a two their community and its really a two part I just want to kind of pull it part I just want to kind of pull it part I just want to kind of pull it apart a little bit for folks I think apart a little bit for folks I think apart a little bit for folks I think sometimes we pull back from asking sometimes we pull back from asking sometimes we pull back from asking people to volunteer we say no for them people to volunteer we say no for them people to volunteer we say no for them we in even in the way we ask them we we in even in the way we ask them we we in even in the way we ask them we diminish what we what what they're going

diminish what we what what they're going diminish what we what what they're going to do and ultimately what that does is to do and ultimately what that does is to do and ultimately what that does is diminish the impact that they're going diminish the impact that they're going diminish the impact that they're going to have and diminishes the growth that's to have and diminishes the growth that's to have and diminishes the growth that's going to happen in their lives we don't going to happen in their lives we don't going to happen in their lives we don't need people to serve in our ministry need people to serve in our ministry need people to serve in our ministry people need to serve in our ministry for people need to serve in our ministry for people need to serve in our ministry for their own growth for their own their own growth for their own their own growth for their own development you have a story either if development you have a story either if development you have a story either if you have a story of an individual in you have a story of an individual in you have a story of an individual in your church who you've seen that they've your church who you've seen that they've your church who you've seen that they've through you know may have like you say through you know may have like you say through you know may have like you say they're putting you know handles on they're putting you know handles on they're putting you know handles on buckets all day long but they you know buckets all day long but they you know buckets all day long but they you know really come to life in your ministry really come to life in your ministry really come to life in your ministry they've really become you know really they've really become you know really they've really become you know really who God's called them to be through your who God's called them to be through your who God's called them to be through your ministry so I mean I'll give you I'll ministry so I mean I'll give you I'll ministry so I mean I'll give you I'll give you 10 we have a guy who uh he's a give you 10 we have a guy who uh he's a give you 10 we have a guy who uh he's a trash man and he's like he's rough trash man and he's like he's rough trash man and he's like he's rough around the edges he's he's a riot but around the edges he's he's a riot but around the edges he's he's a riot but he's at three services a weekend as a he's at three services a weekend as a he's at three services a weekend as a part of our security team and wouldn't part of our security team and wouldn't part of our security team and wouldn't miss it we've got a guy who's a banker miss it we've got a guy who's a banker miss it we've got a guy who's a banker by day and he can't wait for an by day and he can't wait for an by day and he can't wait for an opportunity to teach a belong class or opportunity to teach a belong class or opportunity to teach a belong class or just this week he shared his testimony just this week he shared his testimony just this week he shared his testimony about tithing that people find are about tithing that people find are about tithing that people find are finding their signal finding their signal finding their signal vacants and their place not just in the vacants and their place not just in the vacants and their place not just in the spiritual world but in this world we've spiritual world but in this world we've spiritual world but in this world we've got another banker friend who's our age got another banker friend who's our age got another banker friend who's our age who leads worship for us on a I mean a who leads worship for us on a I mean a who leads worship for us on a I mean a pretty regularly regular basis and pretty regularly regular basis and pretty regularly regular basis and stepped up as our interim worship guy stepped up as our interim worship guy stepped up as our interim worship guy during a time when we were we had just during a time when we were we had just during a time when we were we had just actually sent a worship leader from our actually sent a worship leader from our actually sent a worship leader from our location out to go start a new location

location out to go start a new location location out to go start a new location and we were going to backfill with a and we were going to backfill with a and we were going to backfill with a worship leader here and during a we went worship leader here and during a we went worship leader here and during a we went six months without a worship person and six months without a worship person and six months without a worship person and it was all volunteer people had a staff it was all volunteer people had a staff it was all volunteer people had a staff member help out but it was all volunteer member help out but it was all volunteer member help out but it was all volunteer and that gives you incredible strength and that gives you incredible strength and that gives you incredible strength as an organization to have people that as an organization to have people that as an organization to have people that committed that you don't have to be committed that you don't have to be committed that you don't have to be paying out all the time to be able to paying out all the time to be able to paying out all the time to be able to accomplish great ministry very cool now accomplish great ministry very cool now accomplish great ministry very cool now I think there's a lot of leaders maybe I think there's a lot of leaders maybe I think there's a lot of leaders maybe senior leaders who are listening in senior leaders who are listening in senior leaders who are listening in today who are like yes yes yes I want to today who are like yes yes yes I want to today who are like yes yes yes I want to get my people to release their people get my people to release their people get my people to release their people but I just can't it just isn't working but I just can't it just isn't working but I just can't it just isn't working for whatever reason we talk about it for whatever reason we talk about it for whatever reason we talk about it it's in our heads but you guys have been it's in our heads but you guys have been it's in our heads but you guys have been able to actually operationalize it if able to actually operationalize it if able to actually operationalize it if it's been actually working what what did it's been actually working what what did it's been actually working what what did you do was there any kind of kind of you do was there any kind of kind of you do was there any kind of kind of point in time maybe been where you know point in time maybe been where you know point in time maybe been where you know things actually flipped or it was like things actually flipped or it was like things actually flipped or it was like it went from like that's an interesting it went from like that's an interesting it went from like that's an interesting idea to actually getting something done idea to actually getting something done idea to actually getting something done I think that the thing that we did this I think that the thing that we did this I think that the thing that we did this was this was Clayton hee we had talked was this was Clayton hee we had talked was this was Clayton hee we had talked about for months we're going to have a about for months we're going to have a about for months we're going to have a weekend we called it our difference weekend we called it our difference weekend we called it our difference maker weekend where we wanted no staff maker weekend where we wanted no staff maker weekend where we wanted no staff we wanted staff to be attendees at we wanted staff to be attendees at we wanted staff to be attendees at church watching from a 30,000 foot church watching from a 30,000 foot church watching from a 30,000 foot altitude to where we could figure out altitude to where we could figure out altitude to where we could figure out what was going on and so finally after what was going on and so finally after what was going on and so finally after talking about it Clayton said the talking about it Clayton said the talking about it Clayton said the weekend of december six i think it was weekend of december six i think it was weekend of december six i think it was this past year we're going to have a this past year we're going to have a this past year we're going to have a difference-maker weekend and i don't difference-maker weekend and i don't difference-maker weekend and i don't want to see any staff person and you want to see any staff person and you want to see any staff person and you have four people that thought oh that's have four people that thought oh that's have four people that thought oh that's a great idea to almost oh my gosh we a great idea to almost oh my gosh we a great idea to almost oh my gosh we have a date I've got to get people have a date I've got to get people have a date I've got to get people prepared but it wasn't until we actually prepared but it wasn't until we actually prepared but it wasn't until we actually put a date on the calendar and we said put a date on the calendar and we said put a date on the calendar and we said you need to start preparing your people you need to start preparing your people you need to start preparing your people because there's going to be free because there's going to be free because there's going to be free straight services we're not one person

straight services we're not one person straight services we're not one person on staff is going to be on stage on staff is going to be on stage on staff is going to be on stage teaching in children's ministry leading teaching in children's ministry leading teaching in children's ministry leading our junior high fused ministry nobody's our junior high fused ministry nobody's our junior high fused ministry nobody's going to be greeting at the door nothing going to be greeting at the door nothing going to be greeting at the door nothing we're going to literally be able to go we're going to literally be able to go we're going to literally be able to go to breakfast and show up to church and to breakfast and show up to church and to breakfast and show up to church and watch it happen ok wait a second here watch it happen ok wait a second here watch it happen ok wait a second here this crazy you're talking crazy talk this crazy you're talking crazy talk this crazy you're talking crazy talk clayton where did you come up with this clayton where did you come up with this clayton where did you come up with this idea tell us about a bit of the idea tell us about a bit of the idea tell us about a bit of the impact and there's got to be some pain impact and there's got to be some pain impact and there's got to be some pain associated with this somewhere well associated with this somewhere well associated with this somewhere well first of all it's one of those things first of all it's one of those things first of all it's one of those things where you finally say this is what we're where you finally say this is what we're where you finally say this is what we're going to do and then you start to go uh going to do and then you start to go uh going to do and then you start to go uh this is you get nervous you get this is you get nervous you get this is you get nervous you get unbelievably nervous and we were uh I unbelievably nervous and we were uh I unbelievably nervous and we were uh I was pretty a prideful on the front end was pretty a prideful on the front end was pretty a prideful on the front end going yeah this is going to be great going yeah this is going to be great going yeah this is going to be great when we got closer to it I was going when we got closer to it I was going when we got closer to it I was going this could be a disaster right but um this could be a disaster right but um this could be a disaster right but um here's what I remember I grew up in a here's what I remember I grew up in a here's what I remember I grew up in a small church and the only person he was small church and the only person he was small church and the only person he was on staff at that church was the senior on staff at that church was the senior on staff at that church was the senior pastor and everything else that happened pastor and everything else that happened pastor and everything else that happened in that tiny little church was managed in that tiny little church was managed in that tiny little church was managed by people who were committed to it I had by people who were committed to it I had by people who were committed to it I had a Sunday school teacher who led my a Sunday school teacher who led my a Sunday school teacher who led my Sunday School class every single week Sunday School class every single week Sunday School class every single week and they didn't throw I have a parade and they didn't throw I have a parade and they didn't throw I have a parade for they didn't have parties for it was for they didn't have parties for it was for they didn't have parties for it was you loved Jesus ok then someone needs to you loved Jesus ok then someone needs to you loved Jesus ok then someone needs to teach these kids and as our church has teach these kids and as our church has teach these kids and as our church has grown it just becomes easy for staff to grown it just becomes easy for staff to grown it just becomes easy for staff to go I'm just going to do it myself right go I'm just going to do it myself right go I'm just going to do it myself right and but what they don't realize is that and but what they don't realize is that and but what they don't realize is that puts a lid on future growth because I puts a lid on future growth because I puts a lid on future growth because I want everybody on staff here to get sent

want everybody on staff here to get sent want everybody on staff here to get sent out to go launch another location and I out to go launch another location and I out to go launch another location and I can backfill with the people if they've can backfill with the people if they've can backfill with the people if they've raised up at this location and we've raised up at this location and we've raised up at this location and we've done that with two locations we sent done that with two locations we sent done that with two locations we sent three people from our staff to start a three people from our staff to start a three people from our staff to start a location 45 minutes away and then we location 45 minutes away and then we location 45 minutes away and then we sent our worship leader and his wife all sent our worship leader and his wife all sent our worship leader and his wife all the way to start a location six hours the way to start a location six hours the way to start a location six hours away but when we put the date on the away but when we put the date on the away but when we put the date on the calendar it got real for everybody calendar it got real for everybody calendar it got real for everybody because they knew I mean we're a because they knew I mean we're a because they knew I mean we're a satellite location so there's I mean satellite location so there's I mean satellite location so there's I mean you've got to take a feed someone's got you've got to take a feed someone's got you've got to take a feed someone's got to land the plane and do the invitation to land the plane and do the invitation to land the plane and do the invitation at the end leading worship sign people at the end leading worship sign people at the end leading worship sign people in a security opening the doors locking in a security opening the doors locking in a security opening the doors locking the doors after I mean we literally you the doors after I mean we literally you the doors after I mean we literally you had staff were not allowed to do had staff were not allowed to do had staff were not allowed to do anything you couldn't fix the problem if anything you couldn't fix the problem if anything you couldn't fix the problem if our feed went down a volunteer had to our feed went down a volunteer had to our feed went down a volunteer had to preach the sermon that's not a preach the sermon that's not a preach the sermon that's not a manuscript sermon there's nothing to manuscript sermon there's nothing to manuscript sermon there's nothing to read you read you read you you got to handle it right yet it forced you got to handle it right yet it forced you got to handle it right yet it forced everybody to really evaluate who they're everybody to really evaluate who they're everybody to really evaluate who they're investing in how committed are the investing in how committed are the investing in how committed are the people they're investing in how well people they're investing in how well people they're investing in how well have they train them and it went have they train them and it went have they train them and it went incredible hmm very in fact people in incredible hmm very in fact people in incredible hmm very in fact people in church that Sunday we're kind of looking church that Sunday we're kind of looking church that Sunday we're kind of looking around kind of going what are we paying around kind of going what are we paying around kind of going what are we paying you people for that's great and that's you people for that's great and that's you people for that's great and that's exactly right well then at the very end exactly right well then at the very end exactly right well then at the very end one of our difference makers got up and one of our difference makers got up and one of our difference makers got up and he said I want you to know this whole

he said I want you to know this whole he said I want you to know this whole weekend was brought to you by us mm were weekend was brought to you by us mm were weekend was brought to you by us mm were where the crossing church and this our where the crossing church and this our where the crossing church and this our whole staff could have been off whole staff could have been off whole staff could have been off launching another location someplace launching another location someplace launching another location someplace else because we've got this and the else because we've got this and the else because we've got this and the church went nuts clapping and they church went nuts clapping and they church went nuts clapping and they embraced what it was I think there's a embraced what it was I think there's a embraced what it was I think there's a part that I want to I want to show how part that I want to I want to show how part that I want to I want to show how valuable I am to my congregation so they valuable I am to my congregation so they valuable I am to my congregation so they appreciate me so I always have to be the appreciate me so I always have to be the appreciate me so I always have to be the one doing all this stuff this is the one doing all this stuff this is the one doing all this stuff this is the exact opposite my the Bible teaches this exact opposite my the Bible teaches this exact opposite my the Bible teaches this over and over again our job is to equip over and over again our job is to equip over and over again our job is to equip people for acts of service you cannot people for acts of service you cannot people for acts of service you cannot equip somebody if you are in their way equip somebody if you are in their way equip somebody if you are in their way and so we just stepped all the way out and so we just stepped all the way out and so we just stepped all the way out very we're gonna do it again oh you are very we're gonna do it again oh you are very we're gonna do it again oh you are nice you're going to repeat it I want nice you're going to repeat it I want nice you're going to repeat it I want this to be we want this to become this to be we want this to become this to be we want this to become culture I would love for us to on a culture I would love for us to on a culture I would love for us to on a regular basis maybe three or four times regular basis maybe three or four times regular basis maybe three or four times a year turn it over to all of our people a year turn it over to all of our people a year turn it over to all of our people I mean you can get crazy with this what I mean you can get crazy with this what I mean you can get crazy with this what if in a year the people that we turn it if in a year the people that we turn it if in a year the people that we turn it over to are expected to turn it over to over to are expected to turn it over to over to are expected to turn it over to somebody else right and leadership somebody else right and leadership somebody else right and leadership pipeline is the number one thing that pipeline is the number one thing that pipeline is the number one thing that limits church is especially multi-site limits church is especially multi-site limits church is especially multi-site churches you got to have people people churches you got to have people people churches you got to have people people people people absolutely and we are people people absolutely and we are people people absolutely and we are officially doing that it we still have a officially doing that it we still have a officially doing that it we still have a long way to go listen we are not the long way to go listen we are not the long way to go listen we are not the proof text but I mean as far as a large proof text but I mean as far as a large proof text but I mean as far as a large churches I feel like we may have been churches I feel like we may have been churches I feel like we may have been one of the first large churches to ever one of the first large churches to ever one of the first large churches to ever turn the whole weekend over and it went

turn the whole weekend over and it went turn the whole weekend over and it went better than we ever could have better than we ever could have better than we ever could have anticipated yeah that's very cool i love anticipated yeah that's very cool i love anticipated yeah that's very cool i love that brian tomes church in cincinnati that brian tomes church in cincinnati that brian tomes church in cincinnati called crossroads did a similar thing called crossroads did a similar thing called crossroads did a similar thing years ago now they did it once years ago now they did it once years ago now they did it once they uh they had no they actually it was they uh they had no they actually it was they uh they had no they actually it was a pretty ingenious similar idea just a pretty ingenious similar idea just a pretty ingenious similar idea just kind of fleshing out to give listeners kind of fleshing out to give listeners kind of fleshing out to give listeners different idea what they did was they different idea what they did was they different idea what they did was they invited all their volunteers they said invited all their volunteers they said invited all their volunteers they said hey we're having a party for you on this hey we're having a party for you on this hey we're having a party for you on this upcoming Sunday and they invited them upcoming Sunday and they invited them upcoming Sunday and they invited them but they said we need you to come to but they said we need you to come to but they said we need you to come to this different location and people this different location and people this different location and people arrived at the church and there were no arrived at the church and there were no arrived at the church and there were no volunteers there now they kind of went volunteers there now they kind of went volunteers there now they kind of went from a like almost like exact opposite from a like almost like exact opposite from a like almost like exact opposite it was like this punitive thing on a it was like this punitive thing on a it was like this punitive thing on a punitive but just a demonstration look punitive but just a demonstration look punitive but just a demonstration look at what would happen if there were no at what would happen if there were no at what would happen if there were no volunteers here there was nobody in the volunteers here there was nobody in the volunteers here there was nobody in the parking lot you know parking cars there parking lot you know parking cars there parking lot you know parking cars there was nobody standing outdoors there was was nobody standing outdoors there was was nobody standing outdoors there was nobody in the kids environment there was nobody in the kids environment there was nobody in the kids environment there was no band there was no lighting video they no band there was no lighting video they no band there was no lighting video they had one light on and Brian tome was had one light on and Brian tome was had one light on and Brian tome was standing on stage and preached this standing on stage and preached this standing on stage and preached this great message around he said listen great message around he said listen great message around he said listen nothing going on here without volunteers nothing going on here without volunteers nothing going on here without volunteers if you're not plugged in as a volunteer if you're not plugged in as a volunteer if you're not plugged in as a volunteer literally we can't do this mission literally we can't do this mission literally we can't do this mission without you at the same time they threw without you at the same time they threw without you at the same time they threw a party a volunteer appreciation party a party a volunteer appreciation party a party a volunteer appreciation party that same sunday morning at an off-site that same sunday morning at an off-site that same sunday morning at an off-site location to thank their people kind of location to thank their people kind of location to thank their people kind of the inverse when I heard what you guys the inverse when I heard what you guys the inverse when I heard what you guys did it was kind of the inverse of what did it was kind of the inverse of what did it was kind of the inverse of what you did but I just love it I think you did but I just love it I think you did but I just love it I think that's such a great tool and real that's such a great tool and real that's such a great tool and real practical push for staff and I know when practical push for staff and I know when practical push for staff and I know when I heard that up from my church I'm like I heard that up from my church I'm like I heard that up from my church I'm like I don't know we could do it but I love

I don't know we could do it but I love I don't know we could do it but I love it I love the motivation you know from it I love the motivation you know from it I love the motivation you know from that that's fantastic anything else you that that's fantastic anything else you that that's fantastic anything else you want to share before we jump into the want to share before we jump into the want to share before we jump into the rest of the episode I think the other rest of the episode I think the other rest of the episode I think the other thing that I would tell you since that thing that I would tell you since that thing that I would tell you since that since that Sunday just some things have since that Sunday just some things have since that Sunday just some things have happened we we have our tech director happened we we have our tech director happened we we have our tech director now that he's got over fifty percent of now that he's got over fifty percent of now that he's got over fifty percent of his volunteers that are cross-trained to his volunteers that are cross-trained to his volunteers that are cross-trained to be able to do multiple jobs than the be able to do multiple jobs than the be able to do multiple jobs than the tech ministry and he was probably a guy tech ministry and he was probably a guy tech ministry and he was probably a guy that gave us the most pushback on this that gave us the most pushback on this that gave us the most pushback on this whole idea that he couldn't let go of whole idea that he couldn't let go of whole idea that he couldn't let go of the soundboard he couldn't let go the the soundboard he couldn't let go the the soundboard he couldn't let go the switcher of the cameras or whatever and switcher of the cameras or whatever and switcher of the cameras or whatever and he's probably our biggest cheerleader in he's probably our biggest cheerleader in he's probably our biggest cheerleader in that now from the standpoint of he's that now from the standpoint of he's that now from the standpoint of he's living it I mean you go back in our living it I mean you go back in our living it I mean you go back in our children's ministry and you don't see children's ministry and you don't see children's ministry and you don't see our children's ministered one is the one our children's ministered one is the one our children's ministered one is the one delivering the message every week it has delivering the message every week it has delivering the message every week it has literally kind of turned a light bulb on literally kind of turned a light bulb on literally kind of turned a light bulb on for people to give ministry away this is for people to give ministry away this is for people to give ministry away this is the uncen airy podcast stuff you wish the uncen airy podcast stuff you wish the uncen airy podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going they taught in seminary well we're going they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning round that to jump into the lightning round that to jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar questions questions questions anybody that's on the episode today is anybody that's on the episode today is anybody that's on the episode today is going to be I just a great has been a going to be I just a great has been a going to be I just a great has been a great conversation with the you know great conversation with the you know great conversation with the you know with Ben and Clayton from the crossing with Ben and Clayton from the crossing with Ben and Clayton from the crossing it's been a good fantastic interview I it's been a good fantastic interview I it's been a good fantastic interview I really appreciate your guys being on the really appreciate your guys being on the really appreciate your guys being on the show what's an online resource I'm not show what's an online resource I'm not show what's an online resource I'm not sure who wants to answer these so I'll sure who wants to answer these so I'll sure who wants to answer these so I'll just leave it up to you what's an online just leave it up to you what's an online just leave it up to you what's an online resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days that's helping you out well as our that's helping you out well as our that's helping you out well as our church gets bigger sometimes you can get church gets bigger sometimes you can get church gets bigger sometimes you can get more complicated it's hard to keep more complicated it's hard to keep more complicated it's hard to keep everything going and I'm a to-do list everything going and I'm a to-do list everything going and I'm a to-do list guy so i bought a premium account for guy so i bought a premium account for guy so i bought a premium account for any deal nice or any.do or whatever it any deal nice or any.do or whatever it any deal nice or any.do or whatever it is and i put several staff people on is and i put several staff people on is and i put several staff people on that and I I swear by it right because

that and I I swear by it right because that and I I swear by it right because at any moment time I know what's going at any moment time I know what's going at any moment time I know what's going on I can handle it I don't forget on I can handle it I don't forget on I can handle it I don't forget anything someone told me a long time ago anything someone told me a long time ago anything someone told me a long time ago that amateurs just remember and that amateurs just remember and that amateurs just remember and professionals write it down so training professionals write it down so training professionals write it down so training and so as far as that anybody who's and so as far as that anybody who's and so as far as that anybody who's managing multiple ministries are managing multiple ministries are managing multiple ministries are overseeing multiple people and you don't overseeing multiple people and you don't overseeing multiple people and you don't want to be the bottleneck you want want to be the bottleneck you want want to be the bottleneck you want things to flow through you as fast as things to flow through you as fast as things to flow through you as fast as they come to you that's been the tool they come to you that's been the tool they come to you that's been the tool that's probably helped me a bunch in the that's probably helped me a bunch in the that's probably helped me a bunch in the last 18 months as a leader very cool last 18 months as a leader very cool last 18 months as a leader very cool what's in on a book that you're you've what's in on a book that you're you've what's in on a book that you're you've read the last I don't know six months to read the last I don't know six months to read the last I don't know six months to a year that's shaping your ministry a year that's shaping your ministry a year that's shaping your ministry maybe Ben yeah one of the things that we maybe Ben yeah one of the things that we maybe Ben yeah one of the things that we live by here is good to great as far as live by here is good to great as far as live by here is good to great as far as though a fantastic different things are though a fantastic different things are though a fantastic different things are in there and we are actually a week late in there and we are actually a week late in there and we are actually a week late and I both read at multiple times we're and I both read at multiple times we're and I both read at multiple times we're working through our entire staff to try working through our entire staff to try working through our entire staff to try to up their game in the leadership and to up their game in the leadership and to up their game in the leadership and so for me that's that that's a book that so for me that's that that's a book that so for me that's that that's a book that if there's a leadership manual that it's if there's a leadership manual that it's if there's a leadership manual that it's the embedded in the leadership DNA of the embedded in the leadership DNA of the embedded in the leadership DNA of our church that's what it is just you our church that's what it is just you our church that's what it is just you know talking about getting the right know talking about getting the right know talking about getting the right people on the bus and then once you do people on the bus and then once you do people on the bus and then once you do you don't have to manage the people you you don't have to manage the people you you don't have to manage the people you just get the man into systems and it just get the man into systems and it just get the man into systems and it kind of plays into what we're talking kind of plays into what we're talking kind of plays into what we're talking about here giving things away when you about here giving things away when you about here giving things away when you got the right people on the bus you can got the right people on the bus you can got the right people on the bus you can do that very cool uh Clayton if you do that very cool uh Clayton if you do that very cool uh Clayton if you could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would that be and why oh alive today who would that be and why oh alive today who would that be and why oh that would be a mr. Rick Warren nice uh that would be a mr. Rick Warren nice uh that would be a mr. Rick Warren nice uh Hawaiian shirts and all uh I would Hawaiian shirts and all uh I would Hawaiian shirts and all uh I would anything he had I would be okay ah he's anything he had I would be okay ah he's anything he had I would be okay ah he's just been a got you know when I was just been a got you know when I was just been a got you know when I was going to Bible College I read Purpose going to Bible College I read Purpose going to Bible College I read Purpose Driven church and I read Purpose Driven

Driven church and I read Purpose Driven Driven church and I read Purpose Driven Life & Life & Life & of all the people he seems to still be of all the people he seems to still be of all the people he seems to still be smiling after the challenges of growing smiling after the challenges of growing smiling after the challenges of growing a relatively large church and uh he a relatively large church and uh he a relatively large church and uh he seems to manage that well and so if I seems to manage that well and so if I seems to manage that well and so if I could yeah if I could if I could sit on could yeah if I could if I could sit on could yeah if I could if I could sit on a back porch and sip on some sweet tea a back porch and sip on some sweet tea a back porch and sip on some sweet tea with anybody it would be it would be mr. with anybody it would be it would be mr. with anybody it would be it would be mr. Rick Warren that's fantastic what a Rick Warren that's fantastic what a Rick Warren that's fantastic what a great leader obviously had huge impact great leader obviously had huge impact great leader obviously had huge impact and he's one of those leaders i would and he's one of those leaders i would and he's one of those leaders i would agree you talk about smiling he's wanted agree you talk about smiling he's wanted agree you talk about smiling he's wanted a lot often times we hear of leaders who a lot often times we hear of leaders who a lot often times we hear of leaders who have some sort of burnout they maybe have some sort of burnout they maybe have some sort of burnout they maybe it's not like a you know like a failure it's not like a you know like a failure it's not like a you know like a failure or something like that but kia seem to or something like that but kia seem to or something like that but kia seem to have consistent you know girl you know have consistent you know girl you know have consistent you know girl you know growth and impact hasn't had any you growth and impact hasn't had any you growth and impact hasn't had any you know moral failure but also hasn't had know moral failure but also hasn't had know moral failure but also hasn't had the like oh my goodness my life is so the like oh my goodness my life is so the like oh my goodness my life is so crazy I'm totally burnt out which a lot crazy I'm totally burnt out which a lot crazy I'm totally burnt out which a lot of times we celebrate when people do and of times we celebrate when people do and of times we celebrate when people do and they come back but he never did which is they come back but he never did which is they come back but he never did which is amazing yo I'm very cool now I know amazing yo I'm very cool now I know amazing yo I'm very cool now I know leading uh you know leading a growing leading uh you know leading a growing leading uh you know leading a growing multi-site church is a lot drawing a multi-site church is a lot drawing a multi-site church is a lot drawing a camp by growing campuses a lot what do camp by growing campuses a lot what do camp by growing campuses a lot what do you do to just kick back and have fun you do to just kick back and have fun you do to just kick back and have fun well one I'm sitting next to one of my well one I'm sitting next to one of my well one I'm sitting next to one of my best friends and every Thursday evening best friends and every Thursday evening best friends and every Thursday evening after we get done with our Thursday after we get done with our Thursday after we get done with our Thursday night church his wife and my wife and I night church his wife and my wife and I night church his wife and my wife and I sit down and we just hang out until oh I sit down and we just hang out until oh I sit down and we just hang out until oh I don't know 11-1130 at night and that's don't know 11-1130 at night and that's don't know 11-1130 at night and that's every Thursday we spent a lot of time on every Thursday we spent a lot of time on every Thursday we spent a lot of time on relationships that fill you up because relationships that fill you up because relationships that fill you up because there's plenty of relationships that as there's plenty of relationships that as there's plenty of relationships that as in pastures were constantly pouring out in pastures were constantly pouring out in pastures were constantly pouring out but having friends that uplift you and

but having friends that uplift you and but having friends that uplift you and Korea pushya make you feel better and so Korea pushya make you feel better and so Korea pushya make you feel better and so outside of hanging out with with our outside of hanging out with with our outside of hanging out with with our family um having really really solid family um having really really solid family um having really really solid friendship investments has been a is friendship investments has been a is friendship investments has been a is what we like to do nice very cool well I what we like to do nice very cool well I what we like to do nice very cool well I appreciate you both being on the the appreciate you both being on the the appreciate you both being on the the episode today Clayton been appreciate episode today Clayton been appreciate episode today Clayton been appreciate that if people want to get in touch with that if people want to get in touch with that if people want to get in touch with the crossing or with you how can they do the crossing or with you how can they do the crossing or with you how can they do that uh our website is the crossing that uh our website is the crossing that uh our website is the crossing dotnet and um there's a staff page on dotnet and um there's a staff page on dotnet and um there's a staff page on there if you wanted to talk to better there if you wanted to talk to better there if you wanted to talk to better myself Ben's way smarter than I am but myself Ben's way smarter than I am but myself Ben's way smarter than I am but I'd love you know you if you just want I'd love you know you if you just want I'd love you know you if you just want to placate somebody you can send me an to placate somebody you can send me an to placate somebody you can send me an email but Vince the genius around here email but Vince the genius around here email but Vince the genius around here uh but you're our website is probably uh but you're our website is probably uh but you're our website is probably the easiest way Ben and I both the easiest way Ben and I both the easiest way Ben and I both have twitter I can't handles but I for have twitter I can't handles but I for have twitter I can't handles but I for the life of me can't remember what it is the life of me can't remember what it is the life of me can't remember what it is okay well we'll link to that in the show okay well we'll link to that in the show okay well we'll link to that in the show notes well we'll find it I'm linked to notes well we'll find it I'm linked to notes well we'll find it I'm linked to it there I appreciate you being on the it there I appreciate you being on the it there I appreciate you being on the show today guys really appreciate it show today guys really appreciate it show today guys really appreciate it thanks for doing a great job of your thanks for doing a great job of your thanks for doing a great job of your church and thanks for being here today church and thanks for being here today church and thanks for being here today hey thanks for having us thank you for hey thanks for having us thank you for hey thanks for having us thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on Twitter at rich connect with rich on Twitter at rich connect with rich on Twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unset birch or through email rich at unset birch or through email rich at unset Maneri calm don't forget to check out Maneri calm don't forget to check out Maneri calm don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode a ton the show notes for this episode a ton the show notes for this episode a ton seminary com it includes links to what

seminary com it includes links to what seminary com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary tuning in to this week's on seminary tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary