Andy Steiger on Why Apologetics Should Be Added to Your Church

welcome to the unfeminine podcast are welcome to the unfeminine podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here and I am just so glad that you've and I am just so glad that you've and I am just so glad that you've decided to tune in today you're gonna decided to tune in today you're gonna decided to tune in today you're gonna have a real treat today we've got Andy have a real treat today we've got Andy have a real treat today we've got Andy swagger with us from apologetics Canada swagger with us from apologetics Canada swagger with us from apologetics Canada an organization trying to help you know an organization trying to help you know an organization trying to help you know Christians and non-christians alike Christians and non-christians alike Christians and non-christians alike really wrestle through some big really wrestle through some big really wrestle through some big questions in life and I'm just so glad questions in life and I'm just so glad questions in life and I'm just so glad to have you on the show today Andy it's to have you on the show today Andy it's to have you on the show today Andy it's good to be looking yeah that's great so good to be looking yeah that's great so good to be looking yeah that's great so I'm a Canadian as well always nice to I'm a Canadian as well always nice to I'm a Canadian as well always nice to meet a bald another bald Canadian that's meet a bald another bald Canadian that's meet a bald another bald Canadian that's kind of fun it's a good thing I'm kind of fun it's a good thing I'm kind of fun it's a good thing I'm actually from the United States I I'm actually from the United States I I'm actually from the United States I I'm from Portland Oregon but I've been from Portland Oregon but I've been from Portland Oregon but I've been living in Canada for 19 years right living in Canada for 19 years right living in Canada for 19 years right and I actually came here night I was 19 and I actually came here night I was 19 and I actually came here night I was 19 when I came here so I am in a bit of an when I came here so I am in a bit of an when I came here so I am in a bit of an identity crisis I'm late in Canada as identity crisis I'm late in Canada as identity crisis I'm late in Canada as long as I lived in the US guys that's long as I lived in the US guys that's long as I lived in the US guys that's fine I did the reverse I was in New fine I did the reverse I was in New fine I did the reverse I was in New Jersey for eight years not quite as long Jersey for eight years not quite as long Jersey for eight years not quite as long as you were in Canada so that's kind of as you were in Canada so that's kind of as you were in Canada so that's kind of a that's a fun deal so why don't why a that's a fun deal so why don't why a that's a fun deal so why don't why don't you tell us like so apology don't you tell us like so apology don't you tell us like so apology apologizes Canada what is it and and why apologizes Canada what is it and and why apologizes Canada what is it and and why was your motivation for for starting was your motivation for for starting was your motivation for for starting this yeah I was at Biola University this yeah I was at Biola University this yeah I was at Biola University finishing a master's degree and my wife finishing a master's degree and my wife finishing a master's degree and my wife and I were planning on heading out to and I were planning on heading out to and I were planning on heading out to the mission field and as we were the mission field and as we were the mission field and as we were preparing to do that really we're preparing to do that really we're preparing to do that really we're planning on going overseas we began to

planning on going overseas we began to planning on going overseas we began to hear about the number of young people hear about the number of young people hear about the number of young people that were leaving the church now I had that were leaving the church now I had that were leaving the church now I had been pastoring for over 10 years at this been pastoring for over 10 years at this been pastoring for over 10 years at this point and that was news to me I didn't point and that was news to me I didn't point and that was news to me I didn't know that right know that right know that right and that God really began to do a work and that God really began to do a work and that God really began to do a work at me and and I wanted to address that at me and and I wanted to address that at me and and I wanted to address that issue in Canada and so long story short issue in Canada and so long story short issue in Canada and so long story short my wife and I came back to Canada really my wife and I came back to Canada really my wife and I came back to Canada really feel it as missionaries has been started feel it as missionaries has been started feel it as missionaries has been started up this organization called apologize up this organization called apologize up this organization called apologize Canada right with the goal of helping Canada right with the goal of helping Canada right with the goal of helping churches reach young people right now as churches reach young people right now as churches reach young people right now as we began to do that that kind of morphed we began to do that that kind of morphed we began to do that that kind of morphed and expanded to helping more than just and expanded to helping more than just and expanded to helping more than just young young young and in really tar surprise God just and in really tar surprise God just and in really tar surprise God just blessed that ministry and clearly there blessed that ministry and clearly there blessed that ministry and clearly there was a need and so it grew quite rapidly was a need and so it grew quite rapidly was a need and so it grew quite rapidly yeah that's very cool and give me a yeah that's very cool and give me a yeah that's very cool and give me a sense of kind of the scope of your your sense of kind of the scope of your your sense of kind of the scope of your your ministry what kind of stuff do you do ministry what kind of stuff do you do ministry what kind of stuff do you do yeah we've been creating one thing we've yeah we've been creating one thing we've yeah we've been creating one thing we've been doing is um hosting conferences so been doing is um hosting conferences so been doing is um hosting conferences so we host the apologetics Canada we host the apologetics Canada we host the apologetics Canada conference in British Columbia each year conference in British Columbia each year conference in British Columbia each year where we have between one and two where we have between one and two where we have between one and two thousand people that come out then we thousand people that come out then we thousand people that come out then we also have a conference that happens to also have a conference that happens to also have a conference that happens to vary and in Toronto and then we do vary and in Toronto and then we do vary and in Toronto and then we do speaking engagements across Canada on speaking engagements across Canada on speaking engagements across Canada on top of that we've been creating top of that we've been creating top of that we've been creating resources that we're going to talk about resources that we're going to talk about resources that we're going to talk about today such as the thinking series yeah today such as the thinking series yeah today such as the thinking series yeah and and we're actually in the midst of and and we're actually in the midst of and and we're actually in the midst of creating a new resource right now with creating a new resource right now with creating a new resource right now with power to change which is crew right here power to change which is crew right here power to change which is crew right here in Canada called the human project so in Canada called the human project so in Canada called the human project so that will become so that that's one of that will become so that that's one of that will become so that that's one of the ways that we kind of resource the

the ways that we kind of resource the the ways that we kind of resource the church in corfu speaking you know church in corfu speaking you know church in corfu speaking you know hosting conferences creating resources hosting conferences creating resources hosting conferences creating resources that's right that's right that's right what would you say you know so there's a what would you say you know so there's a what would you say you know so there's a lot of Trish leaders that that you know lot of Trish leaders that that you know lot of Trish leaders that that you know listen in although they may they may listen in although they may they may listen in although they may they may practice apologetics recreationally it's practice apologetics recreationally it's practice apologetics recreationally it's not their primary that's not the primary not their primary that's not the primary not their primary that's not the primary role but what would you say are some of role but what would you say are some of role but what would you say are some of the questions that churches really the questions that churches really the questions that churches really should be looking to answer for folks should be looking to answer for folks should be looking to answer for folks that you bump into all the time as that you bump into all the time as that you bump into all the time as you're you know engaged in kind of the you're you know engaged in kind of the you're you know engaged in kind of the the apologetics hand-to-hand combat well the apologetics hand-to-hand combat well the apologetics hand-to-hand combat well first off I would say that the the goal first off I would say that the the goal first off I would say that the the goal of the Christian should be Matthew 28:19 of the Christian should be Matthew 28:19 of the Christian should be Matthew 28:19 right we should go and meet disciple the right we should go and meet disciple the right we should go and meet disciple the question though is what does it mean to question though is what does it mean to question though is what does it mean to make a disciple you know does it mean to make a disciple you know does it mean to make a disciple you know does it mean to go and force people to become you know go and force people to become you know go and force people to become you know disciples in Jesus and I think we would disciples in Jesus and I think we would disciples in Jesus and I think we would agree no that's not what we're seeking agree no that's not what we're seeking agree no that's not what we're seeking to do seeking to go is actually the word to do seeking to go is actually the word to do seeking to go is actually the word in Greek for make is to go and convince in Greek for make is to go and convince in Greek for make is to go and convince your urge people become a follower of your urge people become a follower of your urge people become a follower of Jesus to become a student of Jesus and Jesus to become a student of Jesus and Jesus to become a student of Jesus and so I see apologetics is a tool in that so I see apologetics is a tool in that so I see apologetics is a tool in that to pep up discipleship I would just to pep up discipleship I would just to pep up discipleship I would just argue though that in our culture today argue though that in our culture today argue though that in our culture today it's an incredibly valuable tool of it's an incredibly valuable tool of it's an incredibly valuable tool of discipleship discipleship discipleship particularly because there's a there's a particularly because there's a there's a particularly because there's a there's a lot of people both in the church in and lot of people both in the church in and lot of people both in the church in and outside of the church that are wrestling outside of the church that are wrestling outside of the church that are wrestling with tough questions in their life and with tough questions in their life and with tough questions in their life and as we begin to do this ministry it we as we begin to do this ministry it we as we begin to do this ministry it we began to realize that there were five began to realize that there were five began to realize that there were five major questions that young adults were major questions that young adults were major questions that young adults were asking and I would just say that people

asking and I would just say that people asking and I would just say that people in general were asking five were these in general were asking five were these in general were asking five were these what's the meaning of life God exists what's the meaning of life God exists what's the meaning of life God exists do all religions lead to God at live do all religions lead to God at live do all religions lead to God at live they're evil and is there life after they're evil and is there life after they're evil and is there life after death death death so what I began to do was I began to so what I began to do was I began to so what I began to do was I began to host these coffee shop discussions with host these coffee shop discussions with host these coffee shop discussions with there was a ministry actually I live in there was a ministry actually I live in there was a ministry actually I live in Abbotsford British Columbia the ministry Abbotsford British Columbia the ministry Abbotsford British Columbia the ministry in Vancouver British Columbia that was in Vancouver British Columbia that was in Vancouver British Columbia that was hosting these coffee shop talks there hosting these coffee shop talks there hosting these coffee shop talks there actually also if you've ever been actually also if you've ever been actually also if you've ever been absolutely yep because they began to absolutely yep because they began to absolutely yep because they began to realize that Alpha is great but people realize that Alpha is great but people realize that Alpha is great but people were asking much more fundamental were asking much more fundamental were asking much more fundamental questions that alpha wasn't addressing questions that alpha wasn't addressing questions that alpha wasn't addressing alpha was assuming too much so they said alpha was assuming too much so they said alpha was assuming too much so they said Andy would you come in and kind of do a Andy would you come in and kind of do a Andy would you come in and kind of do a pre-alpha area and that's where we pre-alpha area and that's where we pre-alpha area and that's where we started with this whole thinking series started with this whole thinking series started with this whole thinking series is kind of laying down normal foundation is kind of laying down normal foundation is kind of laying down normal foundation you know when you're doing dealing with you know when you're doing dealing with you know when you're doing dealing with a culture that it is is so far removed a culture that it is is so far removed a culture that it is is so far removed from Christianity you know there's a lot from Christianity you know there's a lot from Christianity you know there's a lot of groundwork that needs to be done of groundwork that needs to be done of groundwork that needs to be done before you can have some of these other before you can have some of these other before you can have some of these other conversations that we'd like to have you conversations that we'd like to have you conversations that we'd like to have you know we want to talk about who God is know we want to talk about who God is know we want to talk about who God is they're just not even sure God exists they're just not even sure God exists they're just not even sure God exists right and so what we did is we used right and so what we did is we used right and so what we did is we used those five questions to share the gospel those five questions to share the gospel those five questions to share the gospel so just a question builds on the next so just a question builds on the next so just a question builds on the next and together those five are basically and together those five are basically and together those five are basically become a way of talking about the gospel become a way of talking about the gospel become a way of talking about the gospel and what we found was that we would pack and what we found was that we would pack and what we found was that we would pack out these coffee shops night after night out these coffee shops night after night out these coffee shops night after night having these discussions interesting having these discussions interesting having these discussions interesting yeah that's I can totally see that that yeah that's I can totally see that that yeah that's I can totally see that that makes total sense one of the things for makes total sense one of the things for makes total sense one of the things for folks you know the vast majority people

folks you know the vast majority people folks you know the vast majority people who listen to this podcast are in the who listen to this podcast are in the who listen to this podcast are in the States States States you know probably 95 96 percent of you know probably 95 96 percent of you know probably 95 96 percent of people who are listening in and you know people who are listening in and you know people who are listening in and you know one of the interesting things that I've one of the interesting things that I've one of the interesting things that I've said this when I've had other Canadian said this when I've had other Canadian said this when I've had other Canadian guests on the show Canada is an guests on the show Canada is an guests on the show Canada is an interesting kind of culture for American interesting kind of culture for American interesting kind of culture for American leaders to consider because in some ways leaders to consider because in some ways leaders to consider because in some ways it's more progressive and in some ways it's more progressive and in some ways it's more progressive and in some ways it's definitely it's definitely more you it's definitely it's definitely more you it's definitely it's definitely more you know know know non non non chin or unchurched environment then then chin or unchurched environment then then chin or unchurched environment then then really anywhere in the states there are really anywhere in the states there are really anywhere in the states there are a few places maybe the Northeast a few places maybe the Northeast a few places maybe the Northeast maybe the northwest but even those maybe the northwest but even those maybe the northwest but even those environments having served in one of environments having served in one of environments having served in one of those two I would say you take your those two I would say you take your those two I would say you take your average community in Canada and it is it average community in Canada and it is it average community in Canada and it is it is even more you know on church which is even more you know on church which is even more you know on church which which can be a great kind of litmus test which can be a great kind of litmus test which can be a great kind of litmus test for us as we're thinking about leading for us as we're thinking about leading for us as we're thinking about leading within you know an American context you within you know an American context you within you know an American context you know this this can be a you know a great know this this can be a you know a great know this this can be a you know a great thing and I love what you've done to thing and I love what you've done to thing and I love what you've done to kind of lay these out why don't we kind kind of lay these out why don't we kind kind of lay these out why don't we kind of walk through you know your logic in of walk through you know your logic in of walk through you know your logic in pulling together the five you know these pulling together the five you know these pulling together the five you know these five questions in order so what's the five questions in order so what's the five questions in order so what's the meaning of life you know does God exist meaning of life you know does God exist meaning of life you know does God exist do all religions lead to God why is do all religions lead to God why is do all religions lead to God why is there evil and that is there life after there evil and that is there life after there evil and that is there life after death why that particular order what is death why that particular order what is death why that particular order what is it that's driving the structure behind it that's driving the structure behind it that's driving the structure behind that yeah so it would you know just to that yeah so it would you know just to that yeah so it would you know just to give you kind of a basic idea yeah in give you kind of a basic idea yeah in give you kind of a basic idea yeah in the first question what's the meaning of the first question what's the meaning of the first question what's the meaning of life I basically give an argument that life I basically give an argument that life I basically give an argument that the meaning of life according to Jesus the meaning of life according to Jesus the meaning of life according to Jesus Christ and you see this consistently Christ and you see this consistently Christ and you see this consistently throughout the entire Bible is to love throughout the entire Bible is to love throughout the entire Bible is to love God and to love people this is it's the God and to love people this is it's the God and to love people this is it's the Shema deuteronomy you know chapter six

Shema deuteronomy you know chapter six Shema deuteronomy you know chapter six that Jesus repeats throughout the that Jesus repeats throughout the that Jesus repeats throughout the Gospels as as he includes Deuteronomy 6 Gospels as as he includes Deuteronomy 6 Gospels as as he includes Deuteronomy 6 with Leviticus 19 you know love the Lord with Leviticus 19 you know love the Lord with Leviticus 19 you know love the Lord your God with all your heart mind soul your God with all your heart mind soul your God with all your heart mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as and strength and love your neighbor as and strength and love your neighbor as yourself yourself yourself you know this is this is what you know you know this is this is what you know you know this is this is what you know everything this is what life is about everything this is what life is about everything this is what life is about like God created you for the purpose of like God created you for the purpose of like God created you for the purpose of relationship with himself and and in relationship with himself and and in relationship with himself and and in relationship with each other and so I relationship with each other and so I relationship with each other and so I give an argument for that both a give an argument for that both a give an argument for that both a philosophical and a theological argument philosophical and a theological argument philosophical and a theological argument that but that necessarily about leads to that but that necessarily about leads to that but that necessarily about leads to the next question well if that's the the next question well if that's the the next question well if that's the meaning of life you know to have meaning of life you know to have meaning of life you know to have relationship with God it raised a relationship with God it raised a relationship with God it raised a question does God exist right and so question does God exist right and so question does God exist right and so that then leads you into the next one so that then leads you into the next one so that then leads you into the next one so then you look at okay does God exist and then you look at okay does God exist and then you look at okay does God exist and when you look at the evidence for God's when you look at the evidence for God's when you look at the evidence for God's existence you see that there is good existence you see that there is good existence you see that there is good reason to believe that God example that reason to believe that God example that reason to believe that God example that lead you to the next question right okay lead you to the next question right okay lead you to the next question right okay great great great oh is this so do you all do all oh is this so do you all do all oh is this so do you all do all religions lead to God right which by the religions lead to God right which by the religions lead to God right which by the way I kind of worded these questions in way I kind of worded these questions in way I kind of worded these questions in a way that people were asking them a way that people were asking them a way that people were asking them because I had this conversation with because I had this conversation with because I had this conversation with Nancy Pierce eat she said yeah Andy why Nancy Pierce eat she said yeah Andy why Nancy Pierce eat she said yeah Andy why did you do did you do did you do that question instead of you know is that question instead of you know is that question instead of you know is there truth or something like that and I there truth or something like that and I there truth or something like that and I said well because I'm dealing with the said well because I'm dealing with the said well because I'm dealing with the question about truth in there but people question about truth in there but people question about truth in there but people tend to ask that question with that with tend to ask that question with that with tend to ask that question with that with this question you know do all religions this question you know do all religions this question you know do all religions we begun right so that lets you look at we begun right so that lets you look at we begun right so that lets you look at that question you you then it not it that question you you then it not it that question you you then it not it naturally leads you to the next question naturally leads you to the next question naturally leads you to the next question okay if God does exist and in Jesus okay if God does exist and in Jesus okay if God does exist and in Jesus Christ in - he claims being you can't Christ in - he claims being you can't Christ in - he claims being you can't have relationship with God and that is have relationship with God and that is have relationship with God and that is what you were created for

what you were created for what you were created for then why isn't that the kind of world we then why isn't that the kind of world we then why isn't that the kind of world we experience light widening the oken experience light widening the oken experience light widening the oken messed up world the broken just broken messed up world the broken just broken messed up world the broken just broken relationship with God relationship with God relationship with God broken relationship with people so it broken relationship with people so it broken relationship with people so it leads you to that next question why is leads you to that next question why is leads you to that next question why is there evil and that is you begin to look there evil and that is you begin to look there evil and that is you begin to look at that question why is there evil it at that question why is there evil it at that question why is there evil it propels you to this final question of is propels you to this final question of is propels you to this final question of is there life after death there life after death there life after death you have people been dealt with what's you have people been dealt with what's you have people been dealt with what's separating me from right relationship separating me from right relationship separating me from right relationship with God and right relationship with with God and right relationship with with God and right relationship with each other each other each other very quick to find death as is not you very quick to find death as is not you very quick to find death as is not you know just you know this I get it you're know just you know this I get it you're know just you know this I get it you're dying it's this idea that you're being dying it's this idea that you're being dying it's this idea that you're being separated relationally hmm relation from separated relationally hmm relation from separated relationally hmm relation from God in from each other and Jesus meets God in from each other and Jesus meets God in from each other and Jesus meets this point in a prayer that in John this point in a prayer that in John this point in a prayer that in John chapter 17 it's a great prayer in in in chapter 17 it's a great prayer in in in chapter 17 it's a great prayer in in in there he says this is eternal life that there he says this is eternal life that there he says this is eternal life that they know you they might have a they know you they might have a they know you they might have a relationship with you very cool I'm relationship with you very cool I'm relationship with you very cool I'm going to play a bit of I wanted to say going to play a bit of I wanted to say going to play a bit of I wanted to say devil's advocate but I that's probably a devil's advocate but I that's probably a devil's advocate but I that's probably a bad I don't know that I want to advocate bad I don't know that I want to advocate bad I don't know that I want to advocate for the devil but you know there may be for the devil but you know there may be for the devil but you know there may be church leaders that are listening in church leaders that are listening in church leaders that are listening in today that would say you know we try to today that would say you know we try to today that would say you know we try to structure our ministry around you know structure our ministry around you know structure our ministry around you know the issues that people are wrestling the issues that people are wrestling the issues that people are wrestling with today and the thing I like that you with today and the thing I like that you with today and the thing I like that you you know the way you've kind of set this you know the way you've kind of set this you know the way you've kind of set this up is like hey here are the questions up is like hey here are the questions up is like hey here are the questions that people are asking but there may be that people are asking but there may be that people are asking but there may be a church leader out there say they said a church leader out there say they said a church leader out there say they said you know what you know what you know what like the people I interact with they're like the people I interact with they're like the people I interact with they're like wondering how do I you know make like wondering how do I you know make like wondering how do I you know make sure my kids get to school on time how sure my kids get to school on time how sure my kids get to school on time how do I ensure that I fight less with my

do I ensure that I fight less with my do I ensure that I fight less with my wife you know how do I ensure that you wife you know how do I ensure that you wife you know how do I ensure that you know at the end of the month you know I know at the end of the month you know I know at the end of the month you know I there's still a little bit of money left there's still a little bit of money left there's still a little bit of money left in the in the in the account you know in the in the in the account you know in the in the in the account you know what do you say to a church leader who what do you say to a church leader who what do you say to a church leader who would say you know I'm just not sure would say you know I'm just not sure would say you know I'm just not sure that you know these kind of large that you know these kind of large that you know these kind of large overarching questions are really the overarching questions are really the overarching questions are really the questions that the people I'm questions that the people I'm questions that the people I'm interacting with are asking how would interacting with are asking how would interacting with are asking how would you encourage them to think about you encourage them to think about you encourage them to think about engaging these questions in their church engaging these questions in their church engaging these questions in their church you know if they're thinking you know you know if they're thinking you know you know if they're thinking you know I'm just not sure that people wrestle I'm just not sure that people wrestle I'm just not sure that people wrestle with these things yeah great question with these things yeah great question with these things yeah great question first of all the thing that I have first of all the thing that I have first of all the thing that I have noticed over the years of hosting these noticed over the years of hosting these noticed over the years of hosting these what we call thinking series they come what we call thinking series they come what we call thinking series they come and have these discussions yep and that and have these discussions yep and that and have these discussions yep and that we have never had a problem filling up we have never had a problem filling up we have never had a problem filling up these needs events yes people people these needs events yes people people these needs events yes people people come and I think that that's these come and I think that that's these come and I think that that's these volumes to the interest in the need is volumes to the interest in the need is volumes to the interest in the need is that people are coming the other thing that people are coming the other thing that people are coming the other thing too that we hear repeatedly is that too that we hear repeatedly is that too that we hear repeatedly is that people are desiring a place to come and people are desiring a place to come and people are desiring a place to come and to talk about life's big questions in to talk about life's big questions in to talk about life's big questions in which they can a have a place to discuss which they can a have a place to discuss which they can a have a place to discuss openly and other people and be to get openly and other people and be to get openly and other people and be to get solid answers and then to have an solid answers and then to have an solid answers and then to have an opportunity again to discuss that in a opportunity again to discuss that in a opportunity again to discuss that in a culture in particularly our technology culture in particularly our technology culture in particularly our technology culture where you know we tend to be culture where you know we tend to be culture where you know we tend to be isolated more and more from one another isolated more and more from one another isolated more and more from one another what we're finding is a desire to come what we're finding is a desire to come what we're finding is a desire to come together and have these these bigger together and have these these bigger together and have these these bigger questions now the other thing that I questions now the other thing that I questions now the other thing that I find is if you look on you know and I find is if you look on you know and I find is if you look on you know and I could give you know points of different

could give you know points of different could give you know points of different articles yeah right right right yeah articles yeah right right right yeah articles yeah right right right yeah totally totally totally you see these questions continually you see these questions continually you see these questions continually popping up right in pop culture people popping up right in pop culture people popping up right in pop culture people are asking the other question and are asking the other question and are asking the other question and there's a lot of books that are being there's a lot of books that are being there's a lot of books that are being written about the fact that University written about the fact that University written about the fact that University today doesn't address these questions today doesn't address these questions today doesn't address these questions there's no place for young people to go there's no place for young people to go there's no place for young people to go to wrestle with the meaning of life and to wrestle with the meaning of life and to wrestle with the meaning of life and I think that the church of all places I think that the church of all places I think that the church of all places should be a place that people can come should be a place that people can come should be a place that people can come and to get solid answers on that but and to get solid answers on that but and to get solid answers on that but more than that I would say that these more than that I would say that these more than that I would say that these aren't just questions this is about the aren't just questions this is about the aren't just questions this is about the heart of the gospel right and you've heart of the gospel right and you've heart of the gospel right and you've already seen the the stats that are already seen the the stats that are already seen the the stats that are telling us about the number of people telling us about the number of people telling us about the number of people that are walking away from their faith that are walking away from their faith that are walking away from their faith and when we look at why they've walked and when we look at why they've walked and when we look at why they've walked away from the thing one of the biggest away from the thing one of the biggest away from the thing one of the biggest reasons that they have is because they reasons that they have is because they reasons that they have is because they said that the church did not deal with said that the church did not deal with said that the church did not deal with the big questions that they were the big questions that they were the big questions that they were wrestling right right and and so to me wrestling right right and and so to me wrestling right right and and so to me again again again that tells me okay Church we have to that tells me okay Church we have to that tells me okay Church we have to address these foundational questions address these foundational questions address these foundational questions that people are absolutely now you've that people are absolutely now you've that people are absolutely now you've actually packaged this all up into a actually packaged this all up into a actually packaged this all up into a into a series called the thinking series into a series called the thinking series into a series called the thinking series you referenced it there what do you tell you referenced it there what do you tell you referenced it there what do you tell us a little bit about that resource and us a little bit about that resource and us a little bit about that resource and how our churches or organizations using how our churches or organizations using how our churches or organizations using you know this tool yeah you know this tool yeah you know this tool yeah so it's currently paint used across so it's currently paint used across so it's currently paint used across Canada and in the United States it's two Canada and in the United States it's two Canada and in the United States it's two parts there's a video part and there is parts there's a video part and there is parts there's a video part and there is a book the video what it does and I a book the video what it does and I a book the video what it does and I created this again for churches it has a created this again for churches it has a created this again for churches it has a short video that's about three minutes

short video that's about three minutes short video that's about three minutes long that we filmed it in Vancouver and long that we filmed it in Vancouver and long that we filmed it in Vancouver and apollon apollon apollon around here and in Nepal but each around here and in Nepal but each around here and in Nepal but each question have a short story that raises question have a short story that raises question have a short story that raises the question in a way that people are the question in a way that people are the question in a way that people are asking and I think crucial part you know asking and I think crucial part you know asking and I think crucial part you know I just deal with these philosophical I just deal with these philosophical I just deal with these philosophical stuff here where I talk about like how stuff here where I talk about like how stuff here where I talk about like how are people actually wrestling with it so are people actually wrestling with it so are people actually wrestling with it so that first video three minutes gets you that first video three minutes gets you that first video three minutes gets you you know what here's the question and you know what here's the question and you know what here's the question and then it leads into a type of discussion then it leads into a type of discussion then it leads into a type of discussion and this from our research is critical and this from our research is critical and this from our research is critical people want to come and just have a people want to come and just have a people want to come and just have a discussion about that the second video discussion about that the second video discussion about that the second video is about 12 to 15 minutes long and it's is about 12 to 15 minutes long and it's is about 12 to 15 minutes long and it's teaching portion you can use my teaching teaching portion you can use my teaching teaching portion you can use my teaching portion or you can do the teaching portion or you can do the teaching portion or you can do the teaching portion yourself right and then after portion yourself right and then after portion yourself right and then after that you do a discussion again now where that you do a discussion again now where that you do a discussion again now where we have found churches using this in to we have found churches using this in to we have found churches using this in to being really effective as two ways you being really effective as two ways you being really effective as two ways you can see ways actually you could you can can see ways actually you could you can can see ways actually you could you can host it at your church and have host it at your church and have host it at your church and have non-credit you have Christians bringing non-credit you have Christians bringing non-credit you have Christians bringing their their neighbors to comment their their neighbors to comment their their neighbors to comment dialogue on these questions which we dialogue on these questions which we dialogue on these questions which we find effective the second thing that you find effective the second thing that you find effective the second thing that you can do is host this at your community can do is host this at your community can do is host this at your community group so a lot of community groups use group so a lot of community groups use group so a lot of community groups use this as as a resource to go through but this as as a resource to go through but this as as a resource to go through but a third thing you could do is you could a third thing you could do is you could a third thing you could do is you could be much more evangelistic about this you be much more evangelistic about this you be much more evangelistic about this you could go into your community and host could go into your community and host could go into your community and host your own coffee shop conversation make your own coffee shop conversation make your own coffee shop conversation make yourself out there talking with yourself out there talking with yourself out there talking with non-christians and I've done I've done

non-christians and I've done I've done non-christians and I've done I've done this in prisons universities coffee this in prisons universities coffee this in prisons universities coffee shops you name it shops you name it shops you name it I mean it's been very effective that's I mean it's been very effective that's I mean it's been very effective that's very cool the thing I appreciate um yeah very cool the thing I appreciate um yeah very cool the thing I appreciate um yeah I would encourage people to check out I would encourage people to check out I would encourage people to check out the website thinking series.com the website thinking series.com the website thinking series.com which you know it gives a good overview which you know it gives a good overview which you know it gives a good overview and you can access everything there the and you can access everything there the and you can access everything there the thing I love about what you've done is thing I love about what you've done is thing I love about what you've done is you know these are like talking head you know these are like talking head you know these are like talking head videos it's like you know they're videos it's like you know they're videos it's like you know they're engaging they're great to look at engaging they're great to look at engaging they're great to look at they're draw you know they really are they're draw you know they really are they're draw you know they really are trying to draw people in they're you trying to draw people in they're you trying to draw people in they're you know they're designed to I think set up know they're designed to I think set up know they're designed to I think set up the question really well I think you the question really well I think you the question really well I think you have done a very good job with that that have done a very good job with that that have done a very good job with that that and that and that and that you know I think if if anyone you know you know I think if if anyone you know you know I think if if anyone you know who communicates knows that's that's who communicates knows that's that's who communicates knows that's that's that's you know 90% of the battle can we that's you know 90% of the battle can we that's you know 90% of the battle can we kind of get everybody on the same page kind of get everybody on the same page kind of get everybody on the same page we have people from a wide variety of we have people from a wide variety of we have people from a wide variety of backgrounds let's get on the same page backgrounds let's get on the same page backgrounds let's get on the same page kind of this is what we're talking about kind of this is what we're talking about kind of this is what we're talking about today today today you know these could be great tools for you know these could be great tools for you know these could be great tools for for folks and and don't for American for folks and and don't for American for folks and and don't for American listeners don't be scared that it's listeners don't be scared that it's listeners don't be scared that it's apologize Canada it's not like a bunch apologize Canada it's not like a bunch apologize Canada it's not like a bunch of guys in like playing hockey and you of guys in like playing hockey and you of guys in like playing hockey and you know let's go to Tim Hortons it's you know let's go to Tim Hortons it's you know let's go to Tim Hortons it's you know these are you know they're very know these are you know they're very know these are you know they're very accessible resource for sure accessible resource for sure accessible resource for sure rich that that was actually one of the rich that that was actually one of the rich that that was actually one of the things that we learned in making the things that we learned in making the things that we learned in making the videos was the production company that videos was the production company that videos was the production company that was making them first of all we want to was making them first of all we want to was making them first of all we want to make them artistically excellent but make them artistically excellent but make them artistically excellent but second as we were asking the question second as we were asking the question second as we were asking the question you know the video company came back to you know the video company came back to you know the video company came back to us and said you know my friend asked us and said you know my friend asked us and said you know my friend asked this question harder than you're asking this question harder than you're asking this question harder than you're asking it and so we went back and said okay you it and so we went back and said okay you it and so we went back and said okay you know what we're not going to sugarcoat know what we're not going to sugarcoat know what we're not going to sugarcoat any of this we're going to ask these any of this we're going to ask these any of this we're going to ask these questions better than other people who

questions better than other people who questions better than other people who are asked going on right and what we are asked going on right and what we are asked going on right and what we found is that really gave us credit with found is that really gave us credit with found is that really gave us credit with non-christians is that they were like non-christians is that they were like non-christians is that they were like wow you can ask that question as well if wow you can ask that question as well if wow you can ask that question as well if not better than I can I'm interested to not better than I can I'm interested to not better than I can I'm interested to see how you're going to answer it yeah see how you're going to answer it yeah see how you're going to answer it yeah that's great I you know there's another that's great I you know there's another that's great I you know there's another again just to underline I think for for again just to underline I think for for again just to underline I think for for leaders that are that are listening in leaders that are that are listening in leaders that are that are listening in today there's another Canadian leader a today there's another Canadian leader a today there's another Canadian leader a guy by the name of Brooks ekv who's in guy by the name of Brooks ekv who's in guy by the name of Brooks ekv who's in the Toronto area who every Sunday at the the Toronto area who every Sunday at the the Toronto area who every Sunday at the end of all of his talks and about all of end of all of his talks and about all of end of all of his talks and about all of his messages as open forum Q&A where you his messages as open forum Q&A where you his messages as open forum Q&A where you know anybody that's in the room that day know anybody that's in the room that day know anybody that's in the room that day can ask a question or you can texting a can ask a question or you can texting a can ask a question or you can texting a question from one of their locations and question from one of their locations and question from one of their locations and you know that again I think there's you know that again I think there's you know that again I think there's something about the question thing it is something about the question thing it is something about the question thing it is you know and I had this conversation you know and I had this conversation you know and I had this conversation with Brooks around that once where you with Brooks around that once where you with Brooks around that once where you know I was saying to him like listen know I was saying to him like listen know I was saying to him like listen it's it's it's it's notional you know it's it's it's it's notional you know it's it's it's it's notional you know there'll be 1,500 people in the room you there'll be 1,500 people in the room you there'll be 1,500 people in the room you take two questions it's not like you're take two questions it's not like you're take two questions it's not like you're not actually answering everyone's not actually answering everyone's not actually answering everyone's questions why do you keep doing that and questions why do you keep doing that and questions why do you keep doing that and he said you know it what it does is it he said you know it what it does is it he said you know it what it does is it communicates to the broader audience communicates to the broader audience communicates to the broader audience that like no question is off off you that like no question is off off you that like no question is off off you know is a bad question here we're know is a bad question here we're know is a bad question here we're willing to answer you know whatever that willing to answer you know whatever that willing to answer you know whatever that is and if you if you know it na sure is and if you if you know it na sure is and if you if you know it na sure enough you do get real zingers where enough you do get real zingers where enough you do get real zingers where people it's either super personal or people it's either super personal or people it's either super personal or like well-thought-out or um you know and like well-thought-out or um you know and like well-thought-out or um you know and and and that does create a culture and and and that does create a culture and and and that does create a culture and environment where you communicate to environment where you communicate to environment where you communicate to people who don't normally go to church people who don't normally go to church people who don't normally go to church that hey this is an OK spot and so that hey this is an OK spot and so that hey this is an OK spot and so that's what I love about you've done that's what I love about you've done that's what I love about you've done here I think you you've done a very good here I think you you've done a very good here I think you you've done a very good job trying to set it up and make it so job trying to set it up and make it so job trying to set it up and make it so it's you know as accessible as possible

it's you know as accessible as possible it's you know as accessible as possible if people wanted to kind of they're if people wanted to kind of they're if people wanted to kind of they're maybe church leaders who are listening maybe church leaders who are listening maybe church leaders who are listening and say you know what I'm interested in and say you know what I'm interested in and say you know what I'm interested in this kind of thing in fact I may even this kind of thing in fact I may even this kind of thing in fact I may even interested in like the coffee shop thing interested in like the coffee shop thing interested in like the coffee shop thing that may be the best place for it rather that may be the best place for it rather that may be the best place for it rather than in like a you know a scenario than in like a you know a scenario than in like a you know a scenario that's within our building maybe there's that's within our building maybe there's that's within our building maybe there's another way to do that as you've done another way to do that as you've done another way to do that as you've done those in a lot of different context what those in a lot of different context what those in a lot of different context what would be some of the things to be would be some of the things to be would be some of the things to be thinking through you know even just you thinking through you know even just you thinking through you know even just you know tactically around locations or that know tactically around locations or that know tactically around locations or that sort of thing that you know and again sort of thing that you know and again sort of thing that you know and again this is we're going to scratch the this is we're going to scratch the this is we're going to scratch the surface here I'm sure there's a lot of surface here I'm sure there's a lot of surface here I'm sure there's a lot of lessons on that but if you were thinking lessons on that but if you were thinking lessons on that but if you were thinking about hosting them outside the church as about hosting them outside the church as about hosting them outside the church as really a way to reach people in your really a way to reach people in your really a way to reach people in your community what are some of the lessons community what are some of the lessons community what are some of the lessons you've learned in that yeah good you've learned in that yeah good you've learned in that yeah good question first of all one of the things question first of all one of the things question first of all one of the things that we've learned research tells us that we've learned research tells us that we've learned research tells us that people are looking for places to that people are looking for places to that people are looking for places to come and have discussions in fact the come and have discussions in fact the come and have discussions in fact the United States one of the most rapid United States one of the most rapid United States one of the most rapid growing discussions is called deaf cafes growing discussions is called deaf cafes growing discussions is called deaf cafes when I was in Los Angeles doing my when I was in Los Angeles doing my when I was in Los Angeles doing my master's degree there they were very master's degree there they were very master's degree there they were very wildly popular and you see that kind of wildly popular and you see that kind of wildly popular and you see that kind of has kind of spread those are interesting has kind of spread those are interesting has kind of spread those are interesting though because they vary they limit the though because they vary they limit the though because they vary they limit the conversation you can talk about certain conversation you can talk about certain conversation you can talk about certain things can't talk about other things so things can't talk about other things so things can't talk about other things so one of the things that we did when we one of the things that we did when we one of the things that we did when we created these these discussions was when created these these discussions was when created these these discussions was when we hosted them at a coffee shop one of we hosted them at a coffee shop one of we hosted them at a coffee shop one of the things that we do is we'd have live the things that we do is we'd have live the things that we do is we'd have live music often that we try to create a music often that we try to create a music often that we try to create a community an atmosphere where people can community an atmosphere where people can community an atmosphere where people can you know sit meeting people talk you you know sit meeting people talk you you know sit meeting people talk you know have discussion and then we were we know have discussion and then we were we know have discussion and then we were we were willing to let the conversation go were willing to let the conversation go were willing to let the conversation go anywhere you know we weren't trying to anywhere you know we weren't trying to anywhere you know we weren't trying to you know limit you know limit

you know limit and what was going to happen with that and what was going to happen with that and what was going to happen with that conversation and sometimes you know conversation and sometimes you know conversation and sometimes you know people brought up really bizarre people brought up really bizarre people brought up really bizarre right off you know and that just that right off you know and that just that right off you know and that just that happens right but it created for some happens right but it created for some happens right but it created for some really good genuine dialogue and people really good genuine dialogue and people really good genuine dialogue and people felt like they were heard and we found felt like they were heard and we found felt like they were heard and we found that that was was really important one that that was was really important one that that was was really important one of the other things that we did is we of the other things that we did is we of the other things that we did is we had discussion cards and on those had discussion cards and on those had discussion cards and on those discussion cards let people know about discussion cards let people know about discussion cards let people know about resources that they could go and learn resources that they could go and learn resources that they could go and learn more about that topic if that that more about that topic if that that more about that topic if that that interested them another thing that we interested them another thing that we interested them another thing that we did is we would tie in these coffee shop did is we would tie in these coffee shop did is we would tie in these coffee shop talks with a local church so that at the talks with a local church so that at the talks with a local church so that at the end of it maybe it ended at Easter time end of it maybe it ended at Easter time end of it maybe it ended at Easter time and we would have the last you know we and we would have the last you know we and we would have the last you know we would encourage people to go to that would encourage people to go to that would encourage people to go to that church or in different ways that you can church or in different ways that you can church or in different ways that you can tie it in so that these that these tie it in so that these that these tie it in so that these that these people can then get you know connected people can then get you know connected people can then get you know connected into a local church at the end of it into a local church at the end of it into a local church at the end of it ordering it and we found that that was ordering it and we found that that was ordering it and we found that that was very successful one of the other things very successful one of the other things very successful one of the other things that we need to do is to help young to that we need to do is to help young to that we need to do is to help young to help people know that it's a safe place help people know that it's a safe place help people know that it's a safe place to to bring their non-christian friend to to bring their non-christian friend to to bring their non-christian friend right I you know or somebody who's right I you know or somebody who's right I you know or somebody who's wrestling with questions and it will be wrestling with questions and it will be wrestling with questions and it will be heard there that they'll be respected heard there that they'll be respected heard there that they'll be respected and that and and then it will be you and that and and then it will be you and that and and then it will be you know it's a safe environment for them so know it's a safe environment for them so know it's a safe environment for them so I mean those are just a few things if I mean those are just a few things if I mean those are just a few things if you go to thinking sherry calm we put a you go to thinking sherry calm we put a you go to thinking sherry calm we put a whole packet together and it tells whole packet together and it tells whole packet together and it tells basically everything we've learned on basically everything we've learned on basically everything we've learned on the do's and don'ts yeah I watch that the do's and don'ts yeah I watch that the do's and don'ts yeah I watch that like for example one of the aisle tell

like for example one of the aisle tell like for example one of the aisle tell you one of the delts that we have one of you one of the delts that we have one of you one of the delts that we have one of the things that we don't do is we don't the things that we don't do is we don't the things that we don't do is we don't quote atheist any longer actually I I quote atheist any longer actually I I quote atheist any longer actually I I don't I don't positively quote them or don't I don't positively quote them or don't I don't positively quote them or negatively what we found was people were negatively what we found was people were negatively what we found was people were so skeptical of us using one of their so skeptical of us using one of their so skeptical of us using one of their people if you will yes they were atheist people if you will yes they were atheist people if you will yes they were atheist most just came as agnostic uh that then most just came as agnostic uh that then most just came as agnostic uh that then it just was never helpful right so we it just was never helpful right so we it just was never helpful right so we end up not something we don't do yeah end up not something we don't do yeah end up not something we don't do yeah very cool well I really encourage people very cool well I really encourage people very cool well I really encourage people to jump in and you know to check out to jump in and you know to check out to jump in and you know to check out thinking series.com I think this is a thinking series.com I think this is a thinking series.com I think this is a great resource for your church and you great resource for your church and you great resource for your church and you know something you should really know something you should really know something you should really consider is there any other way if consider is there any other way if consider is there any other way if people want to get in touch with you people want to get in touch with you people want to get in touch with you Andy you know that they can do that or Andy you know that they can do that or Andy you know that they can do that or is that really the price is that really the price is that really the price what I said up to today oh yeah what I said up to today oh yeah what I said up to today oh yeah absolutely I mean if they have any absolutely I mean if they have any absolutely I mean if they have any questions they can contact us at info questions they can contact us at info questions they can contact us at info and apologize Canada calm we would love and apologize Canada calm we would love and apologize Canada calm we would love to hear from them and help in any way to hear from them and help in any way to hear from them and help in any way that we can one of the other things that that we can one of the other things that that we can one of the other things that we do on that resource is if you're we do on that resource is if you're we do on that resource is if you're hosting the thinking series you can see hosting the thinking series you can see hosting the thinking series you can see I'm thinking series comm where the I'm thinking series comm where the I'm thinking series comm where the series is being hosted in the United series is being hosted in the United series is being hosted in the United States and in Canada and in fact it gets States and in Canada and in fact it gets States and in Canada and in fact it gets hosted in Europe as well in South Africa hosted in Europe as well in South Africa hosted in Europe as well in South Africa in different places so you can see that in different places so you can see that in different places so you can see that on there and we would encourage you post on there and we would encourage you post on there and we would encourage you post on there if you're going to host the on there if you're going to host the on there if you're going to host the series and and it's a way to let other series and and it's a way to let other series and and it's a way to let other people go I'd also encourage them to people go I'd also encourage them to people go I'd also encourage them to make sure that they're posted in on make sure that they're posted in on make sure that they're posted in on social media right that's great I social media right that's great I social media right that's great I appreciate being on the show today and appreciate being on the show today and appreciate being on the show today and you know and thank you for all the great you know and thank you for all the great you know and thank you for all the great work you're doing any yeah I think you work you're doing any yeah I think you work you're doing any yeah I think you is just good music thank you for tuning

is just good music thank you for tuning is just good music thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung Neri podcast in to this week's unsung Neri podcast in to this week's unsung Neri podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at out on seminary inbox you can sign up at out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon Ericom and we'll send you unsummon Ericom and we'll send you unsummon Ericom and we'll send you helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unsummon Ericom it this episode at unsummon Ericom it this episode at unsummon Ericom it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a episode drop by iTunes and leave a episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to this week's unsung nary podcast join us this week's unsung nary podcast join us this week's unsung nary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary