Darren DeLaune on Empowering Decentralized Teams at Your Church

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everybody welcome to the unsaid inary everybody welcome to the unsaid inary podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around these parts thank you so much for taking these parts thank you so much for taking these parts thank you so much for taking time out from your busy week we know time out from your busy week we know time out from your busy week we know you've got a lot going on at your church you've got a lot going on at your church you've got a lot going on at your church and so we're honored that you would take and so we're honored that you would take and so we're honored that you would take some time out to listen in to today's some time out to listen in to today's some time out to listen in to today's conversation today it's our honor really conversation today it's our honor really conversation today it's our honor really are privileged I've been looking forward are privileged I've been looking forward are privileged I've been looking forward to this podcast for a while to have to this podcast for a while to have to this podcast for a while to have Darren DeLong with us from New Life Darren DeLong with us from New Life Darren DeLong with us from New Life Church in Arkansas this a fantastic Church in Arkansas this a fantastic Church in Arkansas this a fantastic church Darin welcome to the show also church Darin welcome to the show also church Darin welcome to the show also good to be here with you guys you know good to be here with you guys you know good to be here with you guys you know for folks that don't know new life new for folks that don't know new life new for folks that don't know new life new life started about 15 years ago or 14 life started about 15 years ago or 14 life started about 15 years ago or 14 years ago 2001 10 locations if I'm if years ago 2001 10 locations if I'm if years ago 2001 10 locations if I'm if I'm doing my math right and keeping up I'm doing my math right and keeping up I'm doing my math right and keeping up 10 locations about 12,000 people one of

10 locations about 12,000 people one of 10 locations about 12,000 people one of the fastest growing churches in the the fastest growing churches in the the fastest growing churches in the country Darren why don't you tell us country Darren why don't you tell us country Darren why don't you tell us about new life kind of give us the about new life kind of give us the about new life kind of give us the flavor of the church yeah new life flavor of the church yeah new life flavor of the church yeah new life church we started like I said in 2001 church we started like I said in 2001 church we started like I said in 2001 and uh if you want to know a little bit and uh if you want to know a little bit and uh if you want to know a little bit about the flavor more than anything I about the flavor more than anything I about the flavor more than anything I guess you would say we're a relational guess you would say we're a relational guess you would say we're a relational church and I think that's key to who we church and I think that's key to who we church and I think that's key to who we are DNA the way we do ministry is all are DNA the way we do ministry is all are DNA the way we do ministry is all centered around relationships that's a centered around relationships that's a centered around relationships that's a key point if we we are very pretty cool key point if we we are very pretty cool key point if we we are very pretty cool now what's your role there at the church now what's your role there at the church now what's your role there at the church Church I'm we got called a senior exec Church I'm we got called a senior exec Church I'm we got called a senior exec faster and basically what I am is a faster and basically what I am is a faster and basically what I am is a second chair to Pastor Rick visa he's second chair to Pastor Rick visa he's second chair to Pastor Rick visa he's our lead pastor and I'm responsible our lead pastor and I'm responsible our lead pastor and I'm responsible mainly for our team you know granted mainly for our team you know granted mainly for our team you know granted values of the church values of the church values of the church sure you get in trouble if stuff goes sure you get in trouble if stuff goes sure you get in trouble if stuff goes wrong that's really what it comes down wrong that's really what it comes down wrong that's really what it comes down just kidding now that's great so just kidding now that's great so just kidding now that's great so obviously I'm you know leading in a obviously I'm you know leading in a obviously I'm you know leading in a church that's growing so quickly teams church that's growing so quickly teams church that's growing so quickly teams obviously centered at what you do how do obviously centered at what you do how do obviously centered at what you do how do you think about team what does it look you think about team what does it look you think about team what does it look like what it mean to be a part of a team like what it mean to be a part of a team like what it mean to be a part of a team for you I guess that's a critical thing for you I guess that's a critical thing for you I guess that's a critical thing about in a growing Church the challenge about in a growing Church the challenge about in a growing Church the challenge is always what does the team look like is always what does the team look like is always what does the team look like we're constantly talking about that we're constantly talking about that we're constantly talking about that who's on the team how deep is our bench who's on the team how deep is our bench who's on the team how deep is our bench so when I think about ministry has so when I think about ministry has so when I think about ministry has always been a team concept and that's a always been a team concept and that's a always been a team concept and that's a huge principle to us as a staff as a huge principle to us as a staff as a huge principle to us as a staff as a church is we're always thinking about d church is we're always thinking about d church is we're always thinking about d team so it's not wrapped around an team so it's not wrapped around an team so it's not wrapped around an individual it's mainly a team concept individual it's mainly a team concept individual it's mainly a team concept and many of you guys know you've been on and many of you guys know you've been on and many of you guys know you've been on a you've been on a team man it stinks to a you've been on a team man it stinks to a you've been on a team man it stinks to be on a losing team it's pretty on a

be on a losing team it's pretty on a be on a losing team it's pretty on a winning team but the whole team concept winning team but the whole team concept winning team but the whole team concept i think is very important when it comes i think is very important when it comes i think is very important when it comes to ministry now obviously there's to ministry now obviously there's to ministry now obviously there's attention and growing churches right attention and growing churches right attention and growing churches right where you know you need more leaders I'm where you know you need more leaders I'm where you know you need more leaders I'm sure there's church leaders that are sure there's church leaders that are sure there's church leaders that are listening in and they're saying gosh I'm listening in and they're saying gosh I'm listening in and they're saying gosh I'm not sure how you find so many leaders not sure how you find so many leaders not sure how you find so many leaders what does that look like for you how what does that look like for you how what does that look like for you how have you been able to kind of build a have you been able to kind of build a have you been able to kind of build a culture that creates you know creates culture that creates you know creates culture that creates you know creates new leaders and is able to help those new leaders and is able to help those new leaders and is able to help those leaders take steps in the ministry yeah leaders take steps in the ministry yeah leaders take steps in the ministry yeah like a lot of it comes back more or less like a lot of it comes back more or less like a lot of it comes back more or less than philosophy you know how we define than philosophy you know how we define than philosophy you know how we define leaders something that we've done at New leaders something that we've done at New leaders something that we've done at New Life Church is we've kind of gotten rid Life Church is we've kind of gotten rid Life Church is we've kind of gotten rid of the article a and D and I sent it of the article a and D and I sent it of the article a and D and I sent it around a leader or the leisure it's a around a leader or the leisure it's a around a leader or the leisure it's a leadership culture and so I think it's leadership culture and so I think it's leadership culture and so I think it's very important if it's a senior pastor very important if it's a senior pastor very important if it's a senior pastor watching or if its staff members watching or if its staff members watching or if its staff members watching I think it's very important we watching I think it's very important we watching I think it's very important we understand that that ministers not built understand that that ministers not built understand that that ministers not built around individual especially when you're around individual especially when you're around individual especially when you're building a team concept and that's just building a team concept and that's just building a team concept and that's just something we've always talked about and something we've always talked about and something we've always talked about and one of the challenges I think would any one of the challenges I think would any one of the challenges I think would any grow in church is the opportunity for grow in church is the opportunity for grow in church is the opportunity for people to give their territorial way people to give their territorial way people to give their territorial way yeah yeah that's a huge point there when yeah yeah that's a huge point there when yeah yeah that's a huge point there when you have a growing organization or grow you have a growing organization or grow you have a growing organization or grow in church a lot of times where else in church a lot of times where else in church a lot of times where else Tommy Grove a lot of times is the Tommy Grove a lot of times is the Tommy Grove a lot of times is the leadership she's one willing to share leadership she's one willing to share leadership she's one willing to share that chair share you know leadership that chair share you know leadership that chair share you know leadership roles and stuff so I think it's critical roles and stuff so I think it's critical roles and stuff so I think it's critical if you're going to have a grow in church if you're going to have a grow in church if you're going to have a grow in church or growing organization I think the or growing organization I think the or growing organization I think the concept has to be centered around shared concept has to be centered around shared concept has to be centered around shared leadership leadership leadership in other it's able how are you in other it's able how are you in other it's able how are you encouraging your team to get because i encouraging your team to get because i encouraging your team to get because i think you're right i think one of the think you're right i think one of the think you're right i think one of the core issues with growing churches is or

core issues with growing churches is or core issues with growing churches is or and actually it's what'll stifle growth and actually it's what'll stifle growth and actually it's what'll stifle growth is people will hold on to their area is people will hold on to their area is people will hold on to their area it's like the student ministries always it's like the student ministries always it's like the student ministries always got to be my thing or that you know the got to be my thing or that you know the got to be my thing or that you know the kids ministries got to always be my kids ministries got to always be my kids ministries got to always be my thing how are you encouraging your thing how are you encouraging your thing how are you encouraging your leaders to give that up to be open leaders to give that up to be open leaders to give that up to be open handed to allow other people around to handed to allow other people around to handed to allow other people around to lead their areas you know I think one of lead their areas you know I think one of lead their areas you know I think one of the things a common phrase that are our the things a common phrase that are our the things a common phrase that are our staff here here's a lot of it it's staff here here's a lot of it it's staff here here's a lot of it it's something we tell them we don't something we tell them we don't something we tell them we don't necessarily do quote job descriptions we necessarily do quote job descriptions we necessarily do quote job descriptions we have a very open concept in the way that have a very open concept in the way that have a very open concept in the way that we lead our church we do have things we lead our church we do have things we lead our church we do have things that we can lay out you know an org that we can lay out you know an org that we can lay out you know an org chart I saw our system but that's not chart I saw our system but that's not chart I saw our system but that's not the culture and I guess one of the the culture and I guess one of the the culture and I guess one of the things we challenge all of our team things we challenge all of our team things we challenge all of our team members to do is work themselves out of members to do is work themselves out of members to do is work themselves out of a job and that's something we always a job and that's something we always a job and that's something we always talked to them and we encourage them we talked to them and we encourage them we talked to them and we encourage them we just got off of a staff retreat and the just got off of a staff retreat and the just got off of a staff retreat and the people we celebrate are the people that people we celebrate are the people that people we celebrate are the people that have brought people to the table people have brought people to the table people have brought people to the table people that have moved away in a sense it made that have moved away in a sense it made that have moved away in a sense it made room for other people so it's a constant room for other people so it's a constant room for other people so it's a constant thing here of who's replacing you not in thing here of who's replacing you not in thing here of who's replacing you not in any negative way you know it's not a any negative way you know it's not a any negative way you know it's not a negative thing but it's always raising negative thing but it's always raising negative thing but it's always raising up the next leader the next person up the next leader the next person up the next leader the next person that's coming along so that's a huge that's coming along so that's a huge that's coming along so that's a huge part and I think when you start talking part and I think when you start talking part and I think when you start talking about a leadership culture absolutely I about a leadership culture absolutely I about a leadership culture absolutely I think younger leaders or you know more think younger leaders or you know more think younger leaders or you know more insecure leaders hear that and they get insecure leaders hear that and they get insecure leaders hear that and they get nervous about it they're like gosh I nervous about it they're like gosh I nervous about it they're like gosh I want to create something that I where I want to create something that I where I want to create something that I where I am so important they can't do without me am so important they can't do without me am so important they can't do without me and the reality of it it's the opposite and the reality of it it's the opposite and the reality of it it's the opposite of that that great churches are led by of that that great churches are led by of that that great churches are led by leaders who are constantly find finding leaders who are constantly find finding leaders who are constantly find finding you know other people to take over what

you know other people to take over what you know other people to take over what they're doing that they just constantly they're doing that they just constantly they're doing that they just constantly are raising people up that's you know are raising people up that's you know are raising people up that's you know the kind of people we need now how are the kind of people we need now how are the kind of people we need now how are you you know what are some kind of you you know what are some kind of you you know what are some kind of practical steps you're doing to kind of practical steps you're doing to kind of practical steps you're doing to kind of intentionally create a deep bench with intentionally create a deep bench with intentionally create a deep bench with your leaders like are there you know your leaders like are there you know your leaders like are there you know particular steps you're doing you said particular steps you're doing you said particular steps you're doing you said celebrating are there other pieces other celebrating are there other pieces other celebrating are there other pieces other things you're doing yeah I think it's things you're doing yeah I think it's things you're doing yeah I think it's very important that again going back to very important that again going back to very important that again going back to the culture we do have more of a team the culture we do have more of a team the culture we do have more of a team concept here you know we're definitely concept here you know we're definitely concept here you know we're definitely coming from the SEC you know with if you coming from the SEC you know with if you coming from the SEC you know with if you guys want to know about that that is the guys want to know about that that is the guys want to know about that that is the supreme football powerhouse on a supreme football powerhouse on a supreme football powerhouse on a conference but you know we do have a conference but you know we do have a conference but you know we do have a totally team concept totally team concept totally team concept so we're always looking at the share so we're always looking at the share so we're always looking at the share leadership part but also cross training leadership part but also cross training leadership part but also cross training you know I'm saying I think that's very you know I'm saying I think that's very you know I'm saying I think that's very important that we're identifying okay important that we're identifying okay important that we're identifying okay who's next who's coming up but have we who's next who's coming up but have we who's next who's coming up but have we given them an opportunity to lead in any given them an opportunity to lead in any given them an opportunity to lead in any way and so regards if it's a children's way and so regards if it's a children's way and so regards if it's a children's minister a student pastor if it's minister a student pastor if it's minister a student pastor if it's finance whatever area it is it is always finance whatever area it is it is always finance whatever area it is it is always talking about them who is your Timothy talking about them who is your Timothy talking about them who is your Timothy yeah and that's a big thing again that yeah and that's a big thing again that yeah and that's a big thing again that we're always identified we've asked all we're always identified we've asked all we're always identified we've asked all of our team leaders all the way you know of our team leaders all the way you know of our team leaders all the way you know if you go all the way down in our if you go all the way down in our if you go all the way down in our student ministry on a recent retreat student ministry on a recent retreat student ministry on a recent retreat that these guys had as I was challenging that these guys had as I was challenging that these guys had as I was challenging the student leaders when things I was the student leaders when things I was the student leaders when things I was encouraging them to do coming up in 2016 encouraging them to do coming up in 2016 encouraging them to do coming up in 2016 is accident identify who's a Timothy is accident identify who's a Timothy is accident identify who's a Timothy that they can go after and so that's one that they can go after and so that's one that they can go after and so that's one of the things that we always ask our of the things that we always ask our of the things that we always ask our team to do is identify who's that next team to do is identify who's that next team to do is identify who's that next person that they're raising up and I person that they're raising up and I person that they're raising up and I think that's critical in any type of think that's critical in any type of think that's critical in any type of ministry that we're always thinking ministry that we're always thinking ministry that we're always thinking about who's next the next generation

about who's next the next generation about who's next the next generation regardless of age again it's like who regardless of age again it's like who regardless of age again it's like who are we passing the baton to how did what are we passing the baton to how did what are we passing the baton to how did what does that look like for you and your does that look like for you and your does that look like for you and your role I think there are you know there's role I think there are you know there's role I think there are you know there's obviously a limited number of you know obviously a limited number of you know obviously a limited number of you know senior executive pastor roles in your senior executive pastor roles in your senior executive pastor roles in your organization but what is that was that organization but what is that was that organization but what is that was that practically look like for you even I practically look like for you even I practically look like for you even I think for me a lot of times it is think for me a lot of times it is think for me a lot of times it is identifying the emerging leaders I think identifying the emerging leaders I think identifying the emerging leaders I think it's a part that I have you know we it's a part that I have you know we it's a part that I have you know we first started the church it was just a first started the church it was just a first started the church it was just a handful of us we have many people that handful of us we have many people that handful of us we have many people that were that work what we would call staff were that work what we would call staff were that work what we would call staff most of us were volunteer staff so from most of us were volunteer staff so from most of us were volunteer staff so from the beginning you know we wore a lot of the beginning you know we wore a lot of the beginning you know we wore a lot of different hats and I guess over the different hats and I guess over the different hats and I guess over the years you know we've been at this now years you know we've been at this now years you know we've been at this now almost 14 15 years it has been at a almost 14 15 years it has been at a almost 14 15 years it has been at a point where we're sharing who's the best point where we're sharing who's the best point where we're sharing who's the best at this it's so the way that I do that at this it's so the way that I do that at this it's so the way that I do that personally is I do have a lead team and personally is I do have a lead team and personally is I do have a lead team and my team basically leads the different my team basically leads the different my team basically leads the different areas of the church and so we would have areas of the church and so we would have areas of the church and so we would have like six different areas that we focus like six different areas that we focus like six different areas that we focus in on and for me is giving that part of in on and for me is giving that part of in on and for me is giving that part of responsibility away to that team member responsibility away to that team member responsibility away to that team member and so I think a lot of it is given more and so I think a lot of it is given more and so I think a lot of it is given more ministry away it's holding on the ministry away it's holding on the ministry away it's holding on the ministry mm-hmm so hopefully with my ministry mm-hmm so hopefully with my ministry mm-hmm so hopefully with my team would look at and say is that man team would look at and say is that man team would look at and say is that man Darren definitely empowers Aaron also Darren definitely empowers Aaron also Darren definitely empowers Aaron also gives a lot of stuff away yeah that's gives a lot of stuff away yeah that's gives a lot of stuff away yeah that's kind of more the structure that we do kind of more the structure that we do kind of more the structure that we do here very little it is empowering but uh here very little it is empowering but uh here very little it is empowering but uh you know when you empower you know when you empower you know when you empower you also want to make sure that your you also want to make sure that your you also want to make sure that your relational and following up and taking relational and following up and taking relational and following up and taking care of your people so I always switch care of your people so I always switch care of your people so I always switch more to a coach yeah that that's more to a coach yeah that that's more to a coach yeah that that's definitely what I do as a coach I'm definitely what I do as a coach I'm definitely what I do as a coach I'm looking at what's on the field you need

looking at what's on the field you need looking at what's on the field you need to move some players around who's to move some players around who's to move some players around who's stepping up you know as a coach stepping up you know as a coach stepping up you know as a coach sometimes you can't play in the game all sometimes you can't play in the game all sometimes you can't play in the game all right so a lot of times man you got to right so a lot of times man you got to right so a lot of times man you got to raise up that leader that's a player raise up that leader that's a player raise up that leader that's a player that's actually out in the field doing that's actually out in the field doing that's actually out in the field doing it today and I think that's so important it today and I think that's so important it today and I think that's so important that they can coach the team as well and that they can coach the team as well and that they can coach the team as well and make the decisions that need to be made make the decisions that need to be made make the decisions that need to be made that it doesn't have to wait on hey you that it doesn't have to wait on hey you that it doesn't have to wait on hey you know senior leadership it's not so much know senior leadership it's not so much know senior leadership it's not so much what would we do is what we have done what would we do is what we have done what would we do is what we have done hmm training our leaders is something hmm training our leaders is something hmm training our leaders is something they've already observed mm-hmm so our they've already observed mm-hmm so our they've already observed mm-hmm so our style here again from me my role is just style here again from me my role is just style here again from me my role is just hopefully to empower mm-hmm that we're hopefully to empower mm-hmm that we're hopefully to empower mm-hmm that we're leading and then that just being a coach leading and then that just being a coach leading and then that just being a coach for them mm-hmm that's obviously you for them mm-hmm that's obviously you for them mm-hmm that's obviously you know that is a higher level of know that is a higher level of know that is a higher level of leadership than just handing out leadership than just handing out leadership than just handing out checklists and saying do this right checklists and saying do this right checklists and saying do this right obviously empowering is I think obviously empowering is I think obviously empowering is I think everybody thinks that and it sounds everybody thinks that and it sounds everybody thinks that and it sounds great you're like oh I what I want to do great you're like oh I what I want to do great you're like oh I what I want to do that but it's a bit nerve-wracking when that but it's a bit nerve-wracking when that but it's a bit nerve-wracking when you when you look to engage other people you when you look to engage other people you when you look to engage other people I had a friend of mine who says you know I had a friend of mine who says you know I had a friend of mine who says you know the problem with leading leaders is they the problem with leading leaders is they the problem with leading leaders is they want to lead you know and so how are you want to lead you know and so how are you want to lead you know and so how are you doing that with your leaders how are you doing that with your leaders how are you doing that with your leaders how are you really allowing them giving them some really allowing them giving them some really allowing them giving them some freedom but then also creating a sandbox freedom but then also creating a sandbox freedom but then also creating a sandbox for them to kind of you know operate for them to kind of you know operate for them to kind of you know operate within what does that look like for your within what does that look like for your within what does that look like for your team yeah I think there's a huge tension team yeah I think there's a huge tension team yeah I think there's a huge tension with all of us when we start talking with all of us when we start talking with all of us when we start talking about a leadership culture a lot of about a leadership culture a lot of about a leadership culture a lot of times we look at what's controllable and times we look at what's controllable and times we look at what's controllable and was flexible you know there's a lot of was flexible you know there's a lot of was flexible you know there's a lot of things going on in organizations right things going on in organizations right things going on in organizations right now with centralized versus now with centralized versus now with centralized versus decentralized I think the key is is

decentralized I think the key is is decentralized I think the key is is again let's have a common shared value again let's have a common shared value again let's have a common shared value base we have the vision we have the DNA base we have the vision we have the DNA base we have the vision we have the DNA but from there it's allowing our people but from there it's allowing our people but from there it's allowing our people to lead in the area that they're most to lead in the area that they're most to lead in the area that they're most passionate about the way that we do this passionate about the way that we do this passionate about the way that we do this is we give people room to fail I think is we give people room to fail I think is we give people room to fail I think that's so important you know we have a that's so important you know we have a that's so important you know we have a very round table culture so when very round table culture so when very round table culture so when somebody comes to the table with an idea somebody comes to the table with an idea somebody comes to the table with an idea we start collaborating ah but once we we start collaborating ah but once we we start collaborating ah but once we all agree and when we sin all agree and when we sin all agree and when we sin that when an idea we agree on that idea that when an idea we agree on that idea that when an idea we agree on that idea we're going to get people room to fail we're going to get people room to fail we're going to get people room to fail we've all made mistakes right and so the we've all made mistakes right and so the we've all made mistakes right and so the way that we try to empower our people is way that we try to empower our people is way that we try to empower our people is take the risks as well so collaboration take the risks as well so collaboration take the risks as well so collaboration to me is not only the reward is the risk to me is not only the reward is the risk to me is not only the reward is the risk to Trish you know that that is a way to Trish you know that that is a way to Trish you know that that is a way that we help and charge challenge our that we help and charge challenge our that we help and charge challenge our guys to leave is be willing to take the guys to leave is be willing to take the guys to leave is be willing to take the risk more okay yeah so you guys are 10 risk more okay yeah so you guys are 10 risk more okay yeah so you guys are 10 campuses that's that's a lot of campuses that's that's a lot of campuses that's that's a lot of locations you are probably in the point locations you are probably in the point locations you are probably in the point five percent you know and eighty-five five percent you know and eighty-five five percent you know and eighty-five percent of multi sites don't get beyond percent of multi sites don't get beyond percent of multi sites don't get beyond three so the fact that you're at ten three so the fact that you're at ten three so the fact that you're at ten you've obviously done something to you've obviously done something to you've obviously done something to create an empowering culture there you create an empowering culture there you create an empowering culture there you know you touched a little bit on the know you touched a little bit on the know you touched a little bit on the centralized decentralized thing I wonder centralized decentralized thing I wonder centralized decentralized thing I wonder if you could comment on that how are you if you could comment on that how are you if you could comment on that how are you structuring your relationship with your structuring your relationship with your structuring your relationship with your campuses and there's a tension in campuses and there's a tension in campuses and there's a tension in multi-site around creating you know if multi-site around creating you know if multi-site around creating you know if we just have lots of central control and we just have lots of central control and we just have lots of central control and then you know folks out in the campus is then you know folks out in the campus is then you know folks out in the campus is that you know that are just like their that you know that are just like their that you know that are just like their autonomy ton's they just kind of do autonomy ton's they just kind of do autonomy ton's they just kind of do whatever we tell them to do or the other whatever we tell them to do or the other whatever we tell them to do or the other way around saying you know these are way around saying you know these are way around saying you know these are obviously the extreme ends of the obviously the extreme ends of the obviously the extreme ends of the spectrum just we're not really sure spectrum just we're not really sure spectrum just we're not really sure what's happening out there but we've got what's happening out there but we've got what's happening out there but we've got these campuses how do you talk about these campuses how do you talk about these campuses how do you talk about centralized versus decentralized in the

centralized versus decentralized in the centralized versus decentralized in the campuses and then how are you leading campuses and then how are you leading campuses and then how are you leading there to ensure that there's a common there to ensure that there's a common there to ensure that there's a common vision going forward at new life but vision going forward at new life but vision going forward at new life but then you're creating empowerment on the then you're creating empowerment on the then you're creating empowerment on the ground to make that happen yeah like a ground to make that happen yeah like a ground to make that happen yeah like a lot of what we do we're talking about lot of what we do we're talking about lot of what we do we're talking about centralized d centralizes we do me with centralized d centralizes we do me with centralized d centralizes we do me with all of our campus pastors weekly mm-hmm all of our campus pastors weekly mm-hmm all of our campus pastors weekly mm-hmm I think anytime you start talking about I think anytime you start talking about I think anytime you start talking about decentralizing any type of organization decentralizing any type of organization decentralizing any type of organization the key is is argue relational hmm you the key is is argue relational hmm you the key is is argue relational hmm you know and I think that's you know the know and I think that's you know the know and I think that's you know the tension that it creates with a lot of tension that it creates with a lot of tension that it creates with a lot of pastors are a lot of CEOs in a sense is pastors are a lot of CEOs in a sense is pastors are a lot of CEOs in a sense is and I don't know if I can share you know and I don't know if I can share you know and I don't know if I can share you know that leadership role but a lot of times that leadership role but a lot of times that leadership role but a lot of times they can't do that is because they don't they can't do that is because they don't they can't do that is because they don't necessarily know the people that they're necessarily know the people that they're necessarily know the people that they're on their team so I think if you're gonna on their team so I think if you're gonna on their team so I think if you're gonna go decentralized you gotta move into a go decentralized you gotta move into a go decentralized you gotta move into a situation where you really know the situation where you really know the situation where you really know the people that you're leading and it's more people that you're leading and it's more people that you're leading and it's more than just a task list it's more than a than just a task list it's more than a than just a task list it's more than a job description it's really special in a job description it's really special in a job description it's really special in a church concept here that we look at its church concept here that we look at its church concept here that we look at its really knowing the people who they are really knowing the people who they are really knowing the people who they are the way they behave their values their the way they behave their values their the way they behave their values their DNA's and I think once you grab hold of DNA's and I think once you grab hold of DNA's and I think once you grab hold of that and you spend time with them that and you spend time with them that and you spend time with them outside I just simply outside I just simply outside I just simply leading the church that's high fiving leading the church that's high fiving leading the church that's high fiving each other's celebrating with them each other's celebrating with them each other's celebrating with them knowing about their family I think it's knowing about their family I think it's knowing about their family I think it's a lot easier to start decentralized just a lot easier to start decentralized just a lot easier to start decentralized just because there's trust built there you because there's trust built there you because there's trust built there you know I know what they would do in a know I know what they would do in a know I know what they would do in a situation because I watch them in the situation because I watch them in the situation because I watch them in the way they treated their kids you know way they treated their kids you know way they treated their kids you know we've done enough ministry together that we've done enough ministry together that we've done enough ministry together that I've watched them in a sense of how do I've watched them in a sense of how do I've watched them in a sense of how do they react you know to the moment where

they react you know to the moment where they react you know to the moment where they're pastoring someone or Sharon's they're pastoring someone or Sharon's they're pastoring someone or Sharon's are correcting or whatever it is are correcting or whatever it is are correcting or whatever it is conflict management all that we've conflict management all that we've conflict management all that we've observed that behavior already and so observed that behavior already and so observed that behavior already and so again before you decentralize you have again before you decentralize you have again before you decentralize you have to ask yourself am I willing to do a to ask yourself am I willing to do a to ask yourself am I willing to do a team like Jesus did you know Jesus was team like Jesus did you know Jesus was team like Jesus did you know Jesus was close to his 12 and I mean they hate to close to his 12 and I mean they hate to close to his 12 and I mean they hate to get it and they hung out together they get it and they hung out together they get it and they hung out together they prayed together and I think that's the prayed together and I think that's the prayed together and I think that's the key ingredient before we just say hey key ingredient before we just say hey key ingredient before we just say hey we're going to decentralize you better we're going to decentralize you better we're going to decentralize you better make sure you know you team mm-hmm you make sure you know you team mm-hmm you make sure you know you team mm-hmm you spent time with your team and once you spent time with your team and once you spent time with your team and once you do that then I think the do that then I think the do that then I think the decentralization will take care of decentralization will take care of decentralization will take care of itself it happens because you already itself it happens because you already itself it happens because you already know what people would do you know but know what people would do you know but know what people would do you know but answer a question because you've seen answer a question because you've seen answer a question because you've seen them answer the question how they would them answer the question how they would them answer the question how they would react in a situation because you've react in a situation because you've react in a situation because you've already seen him react so the way that already seen him react so the way that already seen him react so the way that we decentralize there's no doubt it is we decentralize there's no doubt it is we decentralize there's no doubt it is empowering the guys to make sure empowering the guys to make sure empowering the guys to make sure decisions and I think it's very decisions and I think it's very decisions and I think it's very important your team knows that hey they important your team knows that hey they important your team knows that hey they can make a decision mm-hmm then hey hold can make a decision mm-hmm then hey hold can make a decision mm-hmm then hey hold on before I go do this rich you know on before I go do this rich you know on before I go do this rich you know that's not to me that's not leadership that's not to me that's not leadership that's not to me that's not leadership mm-hmm I mean the way the world is that mm-hmm I mean the way the world is that mm-hmm I mean the way the world is that craziness of the world I mean you start craziness of the world I mean you start craziness of the world I mean you start talking about military I mean when talking about military I mean when talking about military I mean when you're on the battle line man you can't you're on the battle line man you can't you're on the battle line man you can't say hold on okay that my superior Jess say hold on okay that my superior Jess say hold on okay that my superior Jess you know I'm saying you have to make you know I'm saying you have to make you know I'm saying you have to make that decision I think that's so that decision I think that's so that decision I think that's so important with church leadership is we important with church leadership is we important with church leadership is we allow our people to make the decisions allow our people to make the decisions allow our people to make the decisions when they're out on the forefront you when they're out on the forefront you when they're out on the forefront you know so so hopefully that is a way again know so so hopefully that is a way again know so so hopefully that is a way again I mean these are things that you're I mean these are things that you're I mean these are things that you're asking me how to ollie mm-hmm the best

asking me how to ollie mm-hmm the best asking me how to ollie mm-hmm the best thing to do would be ask that people thing to do would be ask that people thing to do would be ask that people that we are leaving that is such an a that we are leaving that is such an a that we are leaving that is such an a culture that we try to establish eat you culture that we try to establish eat you culture that we try to establish eat you know that's very cool I like what you're know that's very cool I like what you're know that's very cool I like what you're saying there there is a you know just to saying there there is a you know just to saying there there is a you know just to kind of help me understand what you're kind of help me understand what you're kind of help me understand what you're saying you know obviously you're saying you know obviously you're saying you know obviously you're increasing the relational connection increasing the relational connection increasing the relational connection with those leaders particularly with those leaders particularly with those leaders particularly and then at the same time as that as and then at the same time as that as and then at the same time as that as you've done that you have you know you've done that you have you know you've done that you have you know you've really opened up and given them you've really opened up and given them you've really opened up and given them more authority locally and so which i more authority locally and so which i more authority locally and so which i think is a key insight for people think is a key insight for people think is a key insight for people particularly I think that are struggling particularly I think that are struggling particularly I think that are struggling if there's multi-site churches that are if there's multi-site churches that are if there's multi-site churches that are struggling at that third location struggling at that third location struggling at that third location therefore try to figure out how they get therefore try to figure out how they get therefore try to figure out how they get to fourth or fifth you are going to have to fourth or fifth you are going to have to fourth or fifth you are going to have to open your hands you're going to have to open your hands you're going to have to open your hands you're going to have to you're not going to be able to make to you're not going to be able to make to you're not going to be able to make all the decisions that you did when you all the decisions that you did when you all the decisions that you did when you were just one location or two locations were just one location or two locations were just one location or two locations but I appreciate what you're saying but I appreciate what you're saying but I appreciate what you're saying there to kind of say how do we increase there to kind of say how do we increase there to kind of say how do we increase the relational content how are you so the relational content how are you so the relational content how are you so you're meeting with them you know how do you're meeting with them you know how do you're meeting with them you know how do you stay connected just practically you stay connected just practically you stay connected just practically meeting with them weekly you're doing meeting with them weekly you're doing meeting with them weekly you're doing you know is that is that you and Rick you know is that is that you and Rick you know is that is that you and Rick and kind of your team is that she's and kind of your team is that she's and kind of your team is that she's meeting with those folks yeah I mean the meeting with those folks yeah I mean the meeting with those folks yeah I mean the way that we do it Rick and I obviously way that we do it Rick and I obviously way that we do it Rick and I obviously are very close you reckon on me talk are very close you reckon on me talk are very close you reckon on me talk pretty much every day but every Tuesday pretty much every day but every Tuesday pretty much every day but every Tuesday we do have our staff most of these guys we do have our staff most of these guys we do have our staff most of these guys do come in from across the state these do come in from across the state these do come in from across the state these are our campus pastors that are that are are our campus pastors that are that are are our campus pastors that are that are leading their campuses and I with that leading their campuses and I with that leading their campuses and I with that again I mean a lot of times our staff again I mean a lot of times our staff again I mean a lot of times our staff meetings do start off with more personal meetings do start off with more personal meetings do start off with more personal questions to them checking in on them questions to them checking in on them questions to them checking in on them how they're doing but then I mean it how they're doing but then I mean it how they're doing but then I mean it does get to a point where again I mean does get to a point where again I mean does get to a point where again I mean we got to work I mean there's things and we got to work I mean there's things and we got to work I mean there's things and goals and objectives that we do goals and objectives that we do goals and objectives that we do accomplish I'm a very I'm very

accomplish I'm a very I'm very accomplish I'm a very I'm very intentional way that I'll leave because intentional way that I'll leave because intentional way that I'll leave because again ultimately you know we do have to again ultimately you know we do have to again ultimately you know we do have to execute and so it's not just about execute and so it's not just about execute and so it's not just about partying and having fun that's a part of partying and having fun that's a part of partying and having fun that's a part of what we do we're going to celebrate what we do we're going to celebrate what we do we're going to celebrate we're going to have a blast but it is we're going to have a blast but it is we're going to have a blast but it is very important understand what do we very important understand what do we very important understand what do we want to execute and so we're very want to execute and so we're very want to execute and so we're very intentional in the questions that we do intentional in the questions that we do intentional in the questions that we do ask our staff we're very intentional ask our staff we're very intentional ask our staff we're very intentional with the wind that they're focused in on with the wind that they're focused in on with the wind that they're focused in on for that week there is a lot of for that week there is a lot of for that week there is a lot of countability there's a lot of follow-up countability there's a lot of follow-up countability there's a lot of follow-up questions that we do with our team so questions that we do with our team so questions that we do with our team so it's not just having a blast it's not it's not just having a blast it's not it's not just having a blast it's not just this open-ended thing or just just this open-ended thing or just just this open-ended thing or just showing up we're very intentional and showing up we're very intentional and showing up we're very intentional and the way the questions that we do ask our the way the questions that we do ask our the way the questions that we do ask our team and every week there are things team and every week there are things team and every week there are things that they're working on and for us the that they're working on and for us the that they're working on and for us the way that we just simplify that is we way that we just simplify that is we way that we just simplify that is we always ask them you know what was your always ask them you know what was your always ask them you know what was your win for this week and then from there we win for this week and then from there we win for this week and then from there we do look of it and see hey you know is do look of it and see hey you know is do look of it and see hey you know is there any area that there are challenges there any area that there are challenges there any area that there are challenges at the campuses you know every week we at the campuses you know every week we at the campuses you know every week we do assess the weekend services because do assess the weekend services because do assess the weekend services because again going out we do want our again going out we do want our again going out we do want our hurts to look and feel the same as hurts to look and feel the same as hurts to look and feel the same as family you know and so if you go to the family you know and so if you go to the family you know and so if you go to the lawn house and you go to my brothers lawn house and you go to my brothers lawn house and you go to my brothers house it's going to look the same if you house it's going to look the same if you house it's going to look the same if you go to my mom and dad's house it's still go to my mom and dad's house it's still go to my mom and dad's house it's still going to feel the same because we're going to feel the same because we're going to feel the same because we're delong's mm-hmm so there's things that delong's mm-hmm so there's things that delong's mm-hmm so there's things that we do assess that we look at that we we do assess that we look at that we we do assess that we look at that we measure you know as a church and saying measure you know as a church and saying measure you know as a church and saying hey at this campus how we're doing there hey at this campus how we're doing there hey at this campus how we're doing there so again we're laughing were high-fiving so again we're laughing were high-fiving so again we're laughing were high-fiving but i'ma tell you it's halftime yeah I but i'ma tell you it's halftime yeah I but i'ma tell you it's halftime yeah I find we're gonna execute right gonna find we're gonna execute right gonna find we're gonna execute right gonna challenge each other's butt off big time

challenge each other's butt off big time challenge each other's butt off big time I'm gonna say hey how did we miss that I'm gonna say hey how did we miss that I'm gonna say hey how did we miss that blog what do we do there so there is a blog what do we do there so there is a blog what do we do there so there is a lot of accountability with this as well lot of accountability with this as well lot of accountability with this as well mm-hmm very cool that's that's great is mm-hmm very cool that's that's great is mm-hmm very cool that's that's great is there anything else you want to share there anything else you want to share there anything else you want to share before we move on with the arrest of the before we move on with the arrest of the before we move on with the arrest of the episode this has been just really episode this has been just really episode this has been just really insightful I appreciate it yeah i just insightful I appreciate it yeah i just insightful I appreciate it yeah i just think again i mean when you start think again i mean when you start think again i mean when you start talking about decentralization again we talking about decentralization again we talking about decentralization again we talked about one of the most important talked about one of the most important talked about one of the most important things make sure you know you people and things make sure you know you people and things make sure you know you people and again that comes back on us as leaders again that comes back on us as leaders again that comes back on us as leaders and so if you are leading an area of and so if you are leading an area of and so if you are leading an area of ministry i think it's important for you ministry i think it's important for you ministry i think it's important for you to pursue the relationship know your to pursue the relationship know your to pursue the relationship know your people the next thing with people the next thing with people the next thing with decentralization to i think his decentralization to i think his decentralization to i think his expectations are clearly communicated expectations are clearly communicated expectations are clearly communicated you know before you go out say hey y'all you know before you go out say hey y'all you know before you go out say hey y'all go to lead there has to be expectations go to lead there has to be expectations go to lead there has to be expectations that are clearly communicated to the that are clearly communicated to the that are clearly communicated to the team as well and so that that would just team as well and so that that would just team as well and so that that would just be my thing again going back be my thing again going back be my thing again going back relationship is huge and then clearly relationship is huge and then clearly relationship is huge and then clearly expectations communication is huge if expectations communication is huge if expectations communication is huge if you're not going to be good at you're not going to be good at you're not going to be good at communication then you need to go back communication then you need to go back communication then you need to go back to a control environment because if to a control environment because if to a control environment because if that's the case i'm telling you it will that's the case i'm telling you it will that's the case i'm telling you it will destroy everything he does so destroy everything he does so destroy everything he does so communication is key we know that and communication is key we know that and communication is key we know that and again just be accessible to your team again just be accessible to your team again just be accessible to your team you know we do have an open-door policy you know we do have an open-door policy you know we do have an open-door policy here and i think that's so important to here and i think that's so important to here and i think that's so important to be accessible to your team as well ma'am be accessible to your team as well ma'am be accessible to your team as well ma'am this is the unset maneri podcast stuff this is the unset maneri podcast stuff this is the unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary we're you wish they taught in seminary we're you wish they taught in seminary we're going to jump into the lightning round going to jump into the lightning round going to jump into the lightning round this is the part of the episode where we this is the part of the episode where we this is the part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody that's on the show today it's been our that's on the show today it's been our that's on the show today it's been our honor that's been a great conversation honor that's been a great conversation honor that's been a great conversation with Darren dalana I feel like we're with Darren dalana I feel like we're with Darren dalana I feel like we're getting you know an inside peek at his

getting you know an inside peek at his getting you know an inside peek at his leadership at New Life Church of great leadership at New Life Church of great leadership at New Life Church of great fantastic church in Arkansas if you fantastic church in Arkansas if you fantastic church in Arkansas if you haven't had a chance to check them out haven't had a chance to check them out haven't had a chance to check them out you really should Darren what's an you really should Darren what's an you really should Darren what's an online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these days that that's been particularly days that that's been particularly days that that's been particularly helping you in your work helping you in your work helping you in your work yeah like a lot of what we do here is a yeah like a lot of what we do here is a yeah like a lot of what we do here is a lot of social media and so one of the lot of social media and so one of the lot of social media and so one of the things a suit sweet yeah sweet has things a suit sweet yeah sweet has things a suit sweet yeah sweet has helped me tremendously especially just helped me tremendously especially just helped me tremendously especially just reading different articles every day you reading different articles every day you reading different articles every day you can go on hootsuite and you can divide can go on hootsuite and you can divide can go on hootsuite and you can divide your team's up pastures that you're your team's up pastures that you're your team's up pastures that you're following up and also business leaders following up and also business leaders following up and also business leaders and other things as well so whose suite and other things as well so whose suite and other things as well so whose suite is quick every morning I can get my is quick every morning I can get my is quick every morning I can get my reading in and ideas and thoughts from reading in and ideas and thoughts from reading in and ideas and thoughts from churches to to world leadership as well churches to to world leadership as well churches to to world leadership as well so who suites a great tool man very cool so who suites a great tool man very cool so who suites a great tool man very cool that's a book you've read in the last that's a book you've read in the last that's a book you've read in the last six months that's impacting your six months that's impacting your six months that's impacting your ministry or thinking I think a book ministry or thinking I think a book ministry or thinking I think a book recently is the sense of urgency is by recently is the sense of urgency is by recently is the sense of urgency is by John Carter and uh basically again he's John Carter and uh basically again he's John Carter and uh basically again he's tackling this whole thought of tackling this whole thought of tackling this whole thought of decentralization because it from the decentralization because it from the decentralization because it from the inside to the outside and just the inside to the outside and just the inside to the outside and just the challenges that we deal with when we try challenges that we deal with when we try challenges that we deal with when we try to decentralize an organization so to decentralize an organization so to decentralize an organization so that's been a great book another great that's been a great book another great that's been a great book another great book is a starfish and spider that's a book is a starfish and spider that's a book is a starfish and spider that's a comic book that a lot of people are comic book that a lot of people are comic book that a lot of people are reading when pastors read that book reading when pastors read that book reading when pastors read that book there's a lot of hesitancy as well there's a lot of hesitancy as well there's a lot of hesitancy as well because immediately it talks about because immediately it talks about because immediately it talks about cutting off the head in the spider said cutting off the head in the spider said cutting off the head in the spider said so when you go and read that book I'm so when you go and read that book I'm so when you go and read that book I'm not agreeing with everything right but not agreeing with everything right but not agreeing with everything right but again I think it's very important to again I think it's very important to again I think it's very important to understand that especially in the new understand that especially in the new understand that especially in the new leadership that we see in churches and leadership that we see in churches and leadership that we see in churches and grow in churches I think it's a great

grow in churches I think it's a great grow in churches I think it's a great book because again it's talking about book because again it's talking about book because again it's talking about succession mm-hmm you know and how succession mm-hmm you know and how succession mm-hmm you know and how important it is is we build these larger important it is is we build these larger important it is is we build these larger churches it's not just built around that churches it's not just built around that churches it's not just built around that one person yeah it's Fisher that's a one person yeah it's Fisher that's a one person yeah it's Fisher that's a that's a definitely a good book to read that's a definitely a good book to read that's a definitely a good book to read more very good good what's another more very good good what's another more very good good what's another ministry you're looking at that's kind ministry you're looking at that's kind ministry you're looking at that's kind of inspiring you these days yeah I don't of inspiring you these days yeah I don't of inspiring you these days yeah I don't know if you would call it a ministry know if you would call it a ministry know if you would call it a ministry yeah but again I got I got hooked up yeah but again I got I got hooked up yeah but again I got I got hooked up with the ax desus Institute okay and with the ax desus Institute okay and with the ax desus Institute okay and it's a group that is actually out of it's a group that is actually out of it's a group that is actually out of California okay and he talks a lot about California okay and he talks a lot about California okay and he talks a lot about business cycles management styles and business cycles management styles and business cycles management styles and all that it's a Jewish man a Jewish all that it's a Jewish man a Jewish all that it's a Jewish man a Jewish leader and he has so many great leader and he has so many great leader and he has so many great principles that uh I guess you could say principles that uh I guess you could say principles that uh I guess you could say he's mentored me from a four off mmm but he's mentored me from a four off mmm but he's mentored me from a four off mmm but it's called a decent Institute you can it's called a decent Institute you can it's called a decent Institute you can look it up a lot of great ideas look it up a lot of great ideas look it up a lot of great ideas especially in church leadership very especially in church leadership very especially in church leadership very cool just two more questions if you cool just two more questions if you cool just two more questions if you could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get alive today who would you want to get alive today who would you want to get that with and why you know that's a that with and why you know that's a that with and why you know that's a pretty easy question for me and I just pretty easy question for me and I just pretty easy question for me and I just recently came off a trip to China ok recently came off a trip to China ok recently came off a trip to China ok call been talking about playing some call been talking about playing some call been talking about playing some churches there as well and not very cool churches there as well and not very cool churches there as well and not very cool and in the midst of this China trip I and in the midst of this China trip I and in the midst of this China trip I met about a name a man by the name of met about a name a man by the name of met about a name a man by the name of dr. Thomas haghia and I was just by dr. Thomas haghia and I was just by dr. Thomas haghia and I was just by accident that we kind of came together accident that we kind of came together accident that we kind of came together and the more I begin to meet with this and the more I begin to meet with this and the more I begin to meet with this guy talk with this guy the more and more guy talk with this guy the more and more guy talk with this guy the more and more I was amazed about his leadership this I was amazed about his leadership this I was amazed about his leadership this man is in his 90s and he runs an man is in his 90s and he runs an man is in his 90s and he runs an organization called IgA and he just organization called IgA and he just organization called IgA and he just opened a thousand stores in China Wow opened a thousand stores in China Wow opened a thousand stores in China Wow and to hear this man's vision his dream and to hear this man's vision his dream and to hear this man's vision his dream at 91 years of age and I actually watch

at 91 years of age and I actually watch at 91 years of age and I actually watch him you know literally watching him and him you know literally watching him and him you know literally watching him and how he moved around and talk with people how he moved around and talk with people how he moved around and talk with people was amazing and so anyway I got to look was amazing and so anyway I got to look was amazing and so anyway I got to look him up online and did a little research him up online and did a little research him up online and did a little research on it and this guy is a powerful leader on it and this guy is a powerful leader on it and this guy is a powerful leader Ban frankel really cool really cool guy Ban frankel really cool really cool guy Ban frankel really cool really cool guy very cool well I'm sure you know you're very cool well I'm sure you know you're very cool well I'm sure you know you're obviously a busy guy you got a lot going obviously a busy guy you got a lot going obviously a busy guy you got a lot going on in the ministry when you need want to on in the ministry when you need want to on in the ministry when you need want to keep back and just relax and you know keep back and just relax and you know keep back and just relax and you know have a bit of fun what do you what do have a bit of fun what do you what do have a bit of fun what do you what do you do for fun man I gotta hit the gym you do for fun man I gotta hit the gym you do for fun man I gotta hit the gym to be honest with you my ice and this to be honest with you my ice and this to be honest with you my ice and this force background yeah now so every force background yeah now so every force background yeah now so every morning for me you know before you get morning for me you know before you get morning for me you know before you get into the whole thing of the day I like into the whole thing of the day I like into the whole thing of the day I like to start my day off at the gym very to start my day off at the gym very to start my day off at the gym very early right just get a workout in it early right just get a workout in it early right just get a workout in it clears my mind and for me it just allows clears my mind and for me it just allows clears my mind and for me it just allows me to get ready to become an officer to me to get ready to become an officer to me to get ready to become an officer to come in hanging out with people so come in hanging out with people so come in hanging out with people so hitting the gym sports no doubt about it hitting the gym sports no doubt about it hitting the gym sports no doubt about it but that's that's definitely my way of but that's that's definitely my way of but that's that's definitely my way of fun there more cool well I've really fun there more cool well I've really fun there more cool well I've really appreciated this time today thank you so appreciated this time today thank you so appreciated this time today thank you so much for for taking it out and jumping much for for taking it out and jumping much for for taking it out and jumping in I really appreciate the interview in I really appreciate the interview in I really appreciate the interview during if people want to get in touch during if people want to get in touch during if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they with you or with the church how can they with you or with the church how can they do that the best way is simply you can do that the best way is simply you can do that the best way is simply you can follow me through any social media it's follow me through any social media it's follow me through any social media it's a deed along whether it be on Twitter a deed along whether it be on Twitter a deed along whether it be on Twitter Facebook or we're also Instagram as well Facebook or we're also Instagram as well Facebook or we're also Instagram as well and then also if they want to just look and then also if they want to just look and then also if they want to just look me up and send me an email is indeed me up and send me an email is indeed me up and send me an email is indeed alone at New Life Church TV d don't alone at New Life Church TV d don't alone at New Life Church TV d don't wanna at New Life Church TV feel free to wanna at New Life Church TV feel free to wanna at New Life Church TV feel free to email me and we'll get back with you and email me and we'll get back with you and email me and we'll get back with you and anything you guys need that's what we're anything you guys need that's what we're anything you guys need that's what we're here to do man we hit a support i here to do man we hit a support i here to do man we hit a support i appreciate your ministry as well trying

appreciate your ministry as well trying appreciate your ministry as well trying to support pastors and churches all to support pastors and churches all to support pastors and churches all throughout the country throughout the country throughout the country thank you so much during I really thank you so much during I really thank you so much during I really appreciate that thanks for being on the appreciate that thanks for being on the appreciate that thanks for being on the show today I loved it man it was great show today I loved it man it was great show today I loved it man it was great thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie maneri inbox to connect check out uncie maneri inbox to connect check out uncie maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and you can sign up at unsummon re calm and you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri com it includes links to unset Maneri com it includes links to unset Maneri com it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung nari podcast join us next week unsung nari podcast join us next week unsung nari podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary