Barnabas Piper and the Role of Curiosity in a Christian's Life

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses who the churches I've led and campuses who the churches I've led and campuses who the churches I've led and half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every church leader I'm convinced that every church leader I'm convinced that every church leader should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your next campus or church plant they're next campus or church plant they're next campus or church plant they're flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach regal is the that you're trying to reach regal is the that you're trying to reach regal is the only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated team of full-time consultants ready to team of full-time consultants ready to team of full-time consultants ready to help your church launched and succeed in help your church launched and succeed in help your church launched and succeed in a movie theater check out regal theater a movie theater check out regal theater a movie theater check out regal theater church com for more information on church com for more information on church com for more information on locations your church could use welcome locations your church could use welcome locations your church could use welcome to the seminary podcast are you looking to the seminary podcast are you looking to the seminary podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive for practical ministry help to drive for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a your ministry further faster have a your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry sinking feeling that your ministry sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join thousands of others have pursuit of thousands of others have pursuit of thousands of others have pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in stuff that we wish they had taught in stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started seminary buckle up and let's get started seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast with this week's on seminary podcast with this week's on seminary podcast seminary podcast my name is rich so glad seminary podcast my name is rich so glad seminary podcast my name is rich so glad that you've decided to join us today we that you've decided to join us today we that you've decided to join us today we are going to be rewarded for that we've are going to be rewarded for that we've are going to be rewarded for that we've got a great interview lined up today got a great interview lined up today got a great interview lined up today with Barnabas Piper he's with his day with Barnabas Piper he's with his day with Barnabas Piper he's with his day job is with lifeway leadership you might job is with lifeway leadership you might job is with lifeway leadership you might have know him from you know the various have know him from you know the various have know him from you know the various places that he is online he's an author places that he is online he's an author places that he is online he's an author speaker he's written a bunch of book 3 speaker he's written a bunch of book 3 speaker he's written a bunch of book 3 books and we're going to talk about one books and we're going to talk about one books and we're going to talk about one of those today Barnabas walking to the of those today Barnabas walking to the of those today Barnabas walking to the show today thanks so much for having me show today thanks so much for having me show today thanks so much for having me I'm excited to be on with you yeah I I'm excited to be on with you yeah I I'm excited to be on with you yeah I know I really appreciate that you're know I really appreciate that you're know I really appreciate that you're that you're here so what I'd love to do that you're here so what I'd love to do that you're here so what I'd love to do is for people you to give people kind of is for people you to give people kind of is for people you to give people kind of the Barnabas story who is Barnabas in the Barnabas story who is Barnabas in the Barnabas story who is Barnabas in you know 30 seconds you know which is

you know 30 seconds you know which is you know 30 seconds you know which is always hard to do and then we'll talk always hard to do and then we'll talk always hard to do and then we'll talk we'll talk about questions at hand today we'll talk about questions at hand today we'll talk about questions at hand today right well yeah the what what people right well yeah the what what people right well yeah the what what people will probably want to hear and that is will probably want to hear and that is will probably want to hear and that is that John Piper is my dad that that sort that John Piper is my dad that that sort that John Piper is my dad that that sort of sets the stage so the first book I of sets the stage so the first book I of sets the stage so the first book I wrote was about being a pastor's kid wrote was about being a pastor's kid wrote was about being a pastor's kid kind of springboarding off of some of kind of springboarding off of some of kind of springboarding off of some of that so I grew up obviously in a that so I grew up obviously in a that so I grew up obviously in a pastor's home he retired from the pastor's home he retired from the pastor's home he retired from the password when I was 30 so that was very password when I was 30 so that was very password when I was 30 so that was very formative in my my growing up years as a formative in my my growing up years as a formative in my my growing up years as a Christian very much in the church world Christian very much in the church world Christian very much in the church world 20 Christian College got into Christian 20 Christian College got into Christian 20 Christian College got into Christian publishing so that's been that's been publishing so that's been that's been publishing so that's been that's been the world that I live in on and have the world that I live in on and have the world that I live in on and have tried to become a kind of an objective tried to become a kind of an objective tried to become a kind of an objective observer observer observer of Christian culture and church trends of Christian culture and church trends of Christian culture and church trends and things like that not a researcher and things like that not a researcher and things like that not a researcher but just sort of a an observer of how but just sort of a an observer of how but just sort of a an observer of how people how people experience faith and people how people experience faith and people how people experience faith and how church works and how church doesn't how church works and how church doesn't how church works and how church doesn't work and sort of some of the work and sort of some of the work and sort of some of the idiosyncrasies of things which so one of idiosyncrasies of things which so one of idiosyncrasies of things which so one of the things I do on the side of the hosts the things I do on the side of the hosts the things I do on the side of the hosts a podcast called the happy rant and we a podcast called the happy rant and we a podcast called the happy rant and we like to poke fun at things but the like to poke fun at things but the like to poke fun at things but the church does but in a good spirited way church does but in a good spirited way church does but in a good spirited way sort of like laughing with them not at sort of like laughing with them not at sort of like laughing with them not at them sort of spirit of things like i them sort of spirit of things like i them sort of spirit of things like i said i work at lifeway and really enjoy said i work at lifeway and really enjoy said i work at lifeway and really enjoy the opportunity to work alongside the opportunity to work alongside the opportunity to work alongside churches so as opposed to working churches so as opposed to working churches so as opposed to working directly for them which is something directly for them which is something directly for them which is something having been in the church my whole life having been in the church my whole life having been in the church my whole life I don't know that I'd fit very well but I don't know that I'd fit very well but I don't know that I'd fit very well but uh but I really enjoy working for the uh but I really enjoy working for the uh but I really enjoy working for the good of the church in some capacity so good of the church in some capacity so good of the church in some capacity so that's the aim of the things that I that's the aim of the things that I that's the aim of the things that I write online the podcast that I do the

write online the podcast that I do the write online the podcast that I do the the books that i right um have two kids the books that i right um have two kids the books that i right um have two kids I live in the Nashville area I'm and I I live in the Nashville area I'm and I I live in the Nashville area I'm and I have a semi addiction to minnesota have a semi addiction to minnesota have a semi addiction to minnesota sports legends which leads me to a semi sports legends which leads me to a semi sports legends which leads me to a semi depressive state um you know love depressive state um you know love depressive state um you know love reading love love hiking just sort of reading love love hiking just sort of reading love love hiking just sort of that's a few things about me I hope I that's a few things about me I hope I that's a few things about me I hope I give something yeah that's that's give something yeah that's that's give something yeah that's that's fantastic so for folks listening on the fantastic so for folks listening on the fantastic so for folks listening on the podcast yellow I don't often have podcast yellow I don't often have podcast yellow I don't often have authors on I I don't because if if I authors on I I don't because if if I authors on I I don't because if if I said okay we're going to just have said okay we're going to just have said okay we're going to just have authors on we could do 50 episodes a authors on we could do 50 episodes a authors on we could do 50 episodes a year just on that and so and you would year just on that and so and you would year just on that and so and you would be flooded with requests from publicist be flooded with requests from publicist be flooded with requests from publicist yes exactly and so but I really I think yes exactly and so but I really I think yes exactly and so but I really I think part of this is a great guy I would have part of this is a great guy I would have part of this is a great guy I would have a chance to be a part of your pipeline a chance to be a part of your pipeline a chance to be a part of your pipeline conference last fall which is amazing conference last fall which is amazing conference last fall which is amazing people should check that out for this people should check that out for this people should check that out for this coming year you're doing it again I want coming year you're doing it again I want coming year you're doing it again I want it doing it in October yeah it's a it doing it in October yeah it's a it doing it in October yeah it's a fantastic fantastic event and so I would fantastic fantastic event and so I would fantastic fantastic event and so I would strongly recommend that and you talked strongly recommend that and you talked strongly recommend that and you talked about the happy ran five leadership about the happy ran five leadership about the happy ran five leadership questions is one of the best podcasts questions is one of the best podcasts questions is one of the best podcasts out there so which is another one that out there so which is another one that out there so which is another one that borrow mrs. own so I appreciate that but borrow mrs. own so I appreciate that but borrow mrs. own so I appreciate that but let's let's jump into the curious let's let's jump into the curious let's let's jump into the curious Christian how discovering wonder in Christian how discovering wonder in Christian how discovering wonder in riches every part of life why did you riches every part of life why did you riches every part of life why did you write this book I it came from a few write this book I it came from a few write this book I it came from a few places so the book that I wrote before places so the book that I wrote before places so the book that I wrote before was about faith and doubt and questions was about faith and doubt and questions was about faith and doubt and questions and when you spend enough time asking and when you spend enough time asking and when you spend enough time asking questions and thinking questions it questions and thinking questions it questions and thinking questions it just sort of it you either find all the just sort of it you either find all the just sort of it you either find all the answers you're looking for or it sort of answers you're looking for or it sort of answers you're looking for or it sort of snowballs and the thing that I that I snowballs and the thing that I that I snowballs and the thing that I that I realized was um people don't know how to

realized was um people don't know how to realized was um people don't know how to think about questions and I don't I think about questions and I don't I think about questions and I don't I don't say this is somebody who has had don't say this is somebody who has had don't say this is somebody who has had this sort of enlightened genius moment this sort of enlightened genius moment this sort of enlightened genius moment and here i am to fulfill you know I've and here i am to fulfill you know I've and here i am to fulfill you know I've got all the answers but really just got all the answers but really just got all the answers but really just trying to help people think about think trying to help people think about think trying to help people think about think about thinking and think about questions about thinking and think about questions about thinking and think about questions because I my observation is that because I my observation is that because I my observation is that Christians just sort of muddle through Christians just sort of muddle through Christians just sort of muddle through life a lot of times and miss they miss life a lot of times and miss they miss life a lot of times and miss they miss the beauty in the world they miss the beauty in the world they miss the beauty in the world they miss opportunities to connect with other opportunities to connect with other opportunities to connect with other people they we lack the resources to people they we lack the resources to people they we lack the resources to cross cultures um you know having cross cultures um you know having cross cultures um you know having invested in the mentioned the five invested in the mentioned the five invested in the mentioned the five leadership questions podcast it's a leadership questions podcast it's a leadership questions podcast it's a theme that comes up repeatedly when we theme that comes up repeatedly when we theme that comes up repeatedly when we talk to guests on there when they talk talk to guests on there when they talk talk to guests on there when they talk about how they thrive as a leader and about how they thrive as a leader and about how they thrive as a leader and how curiosity is essential in that how curiosity is essential in that how curiosity is essential in that because otherwise they just sort of dry because otherwise they just sort of dry because otherwise they just sort of dry up and wither and I think that's true up and wither and I think that's true up and wither and I think that's true for the soul I think that's true for for the soul I think that's true for for the soul I think that's true for relationships I think it's true for the relationships I think it's true for the relationships I think it's true for the church maybe I think it search needs to church maybe I think it search needs to church maybe I think it search needs to be a more curious place and I think I be a more curious place and I think I be a more curious place and I think I think it ultimately true for our think it ultimately true for our think it ultimately true for our relationship with God because just relationship with God because just relationship with God because just fundamentally speaking if we are finite fundamentally speaking if we are finite fundamentally speaking if we are finite beings who worship an infinite God that beings who worship an infinite God that beings who worship an infinite God that means we have endless opportunities for means we have endless opportunities for means we have endless opportunities for discovery and so without curiosity we discovery and so without curiosity we discovery and so without curiosity we are we're wasting our opportunities and are we're wasting our opportunities and are we're wasting our opportunities and in some senses will waste eternity in some senses will waste eternity in some senses will waste eternity because because we we will have will because because we we will have will because because we we will have will have endless opportunities to engage God have endless opportunities to engage God have endless opportunities to engage God that way and that's that's a remarkable that way and that's that's a remarkable that way and that's that's a remarkable thing yeah actually even at the core of thing yeah actually even at the core of thing yeah actually even at the core of this podcast we're trying to expose this podcast we're trying to expose this podcast we're trying to expose people to a wide variety of church people to a wide variety of church people to a wide variety of church leaders and a part of that is it or I'm

leaders and a part of that is it or I'm leaders and a part of that is it or I'm hoping we'll stir conversation will stir hoping we'll stir conversation will stir hoping we'll stir conversation will stir you know curiosity there are more than you know curiosity there are more than you know curiosity there are more than just sometimes I think in the what would just sometimes I think in the what would just sometimes I think in the what would you call a new church industrial complex you call a new church industrial complex you call a new church industrial complex that we get this impression that there that we get this impression that there that we get this impression that there are like five name-brand churches in the are like five name-brand churches in the are like five name-brand churches in the country and it's like that's the way country and it's like that's the way country and it's like that's the way ministry has to be done but the thing I ministry has to be done but the thing I ministry has to be done but the thing I love that you're pushing here is to love that you're pushing here is to love that you're pushing here is to thinking we need to be thinking about thinking we need to be thinking about thinking we need to be thinking about things a little bit differently not be things a little bit differently not be things a little bit differently not be as kind of narrow minded in our as kind of narrow minded in our as kind of narrow minded in our engagement the way yeah with we lead the engagement the way yeah with we lead the engagement the way yeah with we lead the way we lead what would you encouragement way we lead what would you encouragement way we lead what would you encouragement would you give to someone who's would you give to someone who's would you give to someone who's listening listening listening yes I do want to so I get that I want to yes I do want to so I get that I want to yes I do want to so I get that I want to you know expand my horizons want to you know expand my horizons want to you know expand my horizons want to maybe synced with a bit more curiosity maybe synced with a bit more curiosity maybe synced with a bit more curiosity what should I be doing to to ultimately what should I be doing to to ultimately what should I be doing to to ultimately engage more curiosity in my life we engage more curiosity in my life we engage more curiosity in my life we having that's a that's a hard question having that's a that's a hard question having that's a that's a hard question to answer it in sort of a short list to answer it in sort of a short list to answer it in sort of a short list because because curiosity is a really because because curiosity is a really because because curiosity is a really nebulous thing but I think that also is nebulous thing but I think that also is nebulous thing but I think that also is is why it's accessible because it it can is why it's accessible because it it can is why it's accessible because it it can be very overwhelming if you try to get be very overwhelming if you try to get be very overwhelming if you try to get your head around it all at once I had your head around it all at once I had your head around it all at once I had that experience Justin trying to write that experience Justin trying to write that experience Justin trying to write about it it's um where do you start about it it's um where do you start about it it's um where do you start right and I think I think the starting right and I think I think the starting right and I think I think the starting place is as close to home as possible place is as close to home as possible place is as close to home as possible because in thinking concentric circles because in thinking concentric circles because in thinking concentric circles so there's in terms of who are you so there's in terms of who are you so there's in terms of who are you closest to what are you most interested closest to what are you most interested closest to what are you most interested in so the things that you're already in so the things that you're already in so the things that you're already interested in so leadership theology interested in so leadership theology interested in so leadership theology ministry social justice issues your ministry social justice issues your ministry social justice issues your neighbors literally start close to home neighbors literally start close to home neighbors literally start close to home like what's on your bookshelf right now like what's on your bookshelf right now like what's on your bookshelf right now what is what what's documentary is in what is what what's documentary is in what is what what's documentary is in your netflix queue um who lives next

your netflix queue um who lives next your netflix queue um who lives next door those kinds of things and and door those kinds of things and and door those kinds of things and and curiosity in those ways becomes just curiosity in those ways becomes just curiosity in those ways becomes just asking what don't I know about this like asking what don't I know about this like asking what don't I know about this like what else is there there's always the what else is there there's always the what else is there there's always the question of what else is there and then question of what else is there and then question of what else is there and then as you expand out from there you the as you expand out from there you the as you expand out from there you the concepts get bigger the connections get concepts get bigger the connections get concepts get bigger the connections get bigger but the coolest thing about bigger but the coolest thing about bigger but the coolest thing about curiosity is that is the connection that curiosity is that is the connection that curiosity is that is the connection that it creates so anytime you ask a good it creates so anytime you ask a good it creates so anytime you ask a good question it leads to another idea or question it leads to another idea or question it leads to another idea or another level of depth in a relationship another level of depth in a relationship another level of depth in a relationship or another thing that you've learned and or another thing that you've learned and or another thing that you've learned and then you ask questions about that and it then you ask questions about that and it then you ask questions about that and it and it becomes this web of connections and it becomes this web of connections and it becomes this web of connections between people and ideas and that's between people and ideas and that's between people and ideas and that's that's the richness of it mm-hmm how in that's the richness of it mm-hmm how in that's the richness of it mm-hmm how in your own life I would assume you know your own life I would assume you know your own life I would assume you know part of what you do your day job is you part of what you do your day job is you part of what you do your day job is you know helping churches think through how know helping churches think through how know helping churches think through how to you know develop leaders better you to you know develop leaders better you to you know develop leaders better you know you're constantly trying to you know you're constantly trying to you know you're constantly trying to you know help sure to think about you know know help sure to think about you know know help sure to think about you know ministry in a different way or in a more ministry in a different way or in a more ministry in a different way or in a more effective way how have you found that effective way how have you found that effective way how have you found that even just that exploration how has that even just that exploration how has that even just that exploration how has that benefited in your you know your approach benefited in your you know your approach benefited in your you know your approach to your work and ministry I think it I to your work and ministry I think it I to your work and ministry I think it I think it expands expands the UH what think it expands expands the UH what think it expands expands the UH what sort I'm looking for the number sort I'm looking for the number sort I'm looking for the number of options on how to solve problems for of options on how to solve problems for of options on how to solve problems for example we we in the church tend to have example we we in the church tend to have example we we in the church tend to have sort of we get stuck in ruts this is sort of we get stuck in ruts this is sort of we get stuck in ruts this is this is how we have done things you know this is how we have done things you know this is how we have done things you know that's that's a real quick way for a that's that's a real quick way for a that's that's a real quick way for a ministry to die that's how we've always ministry to die that's how we've always ministry to die that's how we've always done it yeah I'm but then also we sort done it yeah I'm but then also we sort done it yeah I'm but then also we sort of look at it and go well here's here's

of look at it and go well here's here's of look at it and go well here's here's three options on how to solve things we three options on how to solve things we three options on how to solve things we sort of look at existing models well we sort of look at existing models well we sort of look at existing models well we could do it like that church or like could do it like that church or like could do it like that church or like this church or like this book and and I this church or like this book and and I this church or like this book and and I just look at it and go but why are those just look at it and go but why are those just look at it and go but why are those day on the options that's a false choice day on the options that's a false choice day on the options that's a false choice like what what opportunities exist that like what what opportunities exist that like what what opportunities exist that that haven't been explored or what that haven't been explored or what that haven't been explored or what resources churches have resources resources churches have resources resources churches have resources they've never considered um in terms of they've never considered um in terms of they've never considered um in terms of in terms of people the gifts of the in terms of people the gifts of the in terms of people the gifts of the people in the church the people who who people in the church the people who who people in the church the people who who have this itch to serve but they don't have this itch to serve but they don't have this itch to serve but they don't even know how to get involved and so as even know how to get involved and so as even know how to get involved and so as a leader what curiosity leads you to tap a leader what curiosity leads you to tap a leader what curiosity leads you to tap into that and discover it and to find it into that and discover it and to find it into that and discover it and to find it and so it's a I think it just it blows and so it's a I think it just it blows and so it's a I think it just it blows through with a with fresh air to kind of through with a with fresh air to kind of through with a with fresh air to kind of push all the stale air out and and push all the stale air out and and push all the stale air out and and create a bit of a blank slate not not in create a bit of a blank slate not not in create a bit of a blank slate not not in terms of oh we're starting at zero we're terms of oh we're starting at zero we're terms of oh we're starting at zero we're going to start from the ground up but going to start from the ground up but going to start from the ground up but just in a you know there are more just in a you know there are more just in a you know there are more options than we've considered there's options than we've considered there's options than we've considered there's more opportunities than we've considered more opportunities than we've considered more opportunities than we've considered we've got have blessed us with people we've got have blessed us with people we've got have blessed us with people and gifts and resources that we've never and gifts and resources that we've never and gifts and resources that we've never considered and I think that and considered and I think that and considered and I think that and curiosity also keeps people humble curiosity also keeps people humble curiosity also keeps people humble because it's it's a constant because it's it's a constant because it's it's a constant acknowledgment of why don't know right I acknowledgment of why don't know right I acknowledgment of why don't know right I don't know that I don't and so and if don't know that I don't and so and if don't know that I don't and so and if that's the case I mean then that that's that's the case I mean then that that's that's the case I mean then that that's a vital trait per liter yeah absolutely a vital trait per liter yeah absolutely a vital trait per liter yeah absolutely you know talking about the kind of you know talking about the kind of you know talking about the kind of opposite of curiosity why do you think opposite of curiosity why do you think opposite of curiosity why do you think the idea of we've always done it this the idea of we've always done it this the idea of we've always done it this way is such a powerful you know thing way is such a powerful you know thing way is such a powerful you know thing that we're drawn to as As Leaders one of

that we're drawn to as As Leaders one of that we're drawn to as As Leaders one of the things I've been thinking about the things I've been thinking about the things I've been thinking about recently is you know I saw I'm in my 40s recently is you know I saw I'm in my 40s recently is you know I saw I'm in my 40s 40-something leader you know have been 40-something leader you know have been 40-something leader you know have been involved in a lot of innovative ministry involved in a lot of innovative ministry involved in a lot of innovative ministry over the years and I see my friends over the years and I see my friends over the years and I see my friends churches stuck and they are doing their churches stuck and they are doing their churches stuck and they are doing their they're doing innovative ministry from they're doing innovative ministry from they're doing innovative ministry from 15 years ago they're literally doing it 15 years ago they're literally doing it 15 years ago they're literally doing it the same and they they came in in fact the same and they they came in in fact the same and they they came in in fact they talk about change they're excited they talk about change they're excited they talk about change they're excited about change they're like no about change they're like no about change they're like no have to change the church but then have to change the church but then have to change the church but then actually when you look at what's actually when you look at what's actually when you look at what's happening they're not moving forward why happening they're not moving forward why happening they're not moving forward why is it that that idea of this is the way is it that that idea of this is the way is it that that idea of this is the way we've always done it here is such a we've always done it here is such a we've always done it here is such a powerful idea to leaders I think the powerful idea to leaders I think the powerful idea to leaders I think the real short answer is that ideas are fun real short answer is that ideas are fun real short answer is that ideas are fun and leadership is hard it's um sure I and leadership is hard it's um sure I and leadership is hard it's um sure I mean it's it's so easy to sit around you mean it's it's so easy to sit around you mean it's it's so easy to sit around you know a conference room or be at a know a conference room or be at a know a conference room or be at a conference or a coffee shop or whatever conference or a coffee shop or whatever conference or a coffee shop or whatever and have 15 ideas man what if we could and have 15 ideas man what if we could and have 15 ideas man what if we could that what if question that big big that what if question that big big that what if question that big big horizons looking out there but then you horizons looking out there but then you horizons looking out there but then you get back and you've got nine emails from get back and you've got nine emails from get back and you've got nine emails from unhappy people or you know a budget unhappy people or you know a budget unhappy people or you know a budget question just the grind of daily work question just the grind of daily work question just the grind of daily work change in that context is way harder change in that context is way harder change in that context is way harder than ideas right but I think I think in than ideas right but I think I think in than ideas right but I think I think in the church there's another aspect and the church there's another aspect and the church there's another aspect and that is depending on the church that is depending on the church that is depending on the church tradition and change can feel like a tradition and change can feel like a tradition and change can feel like a slippery slope if we give something up slippery slope if we give something up slippery slope if we give something up are we giving up something that's godly are we giving up something that's godly are we giving up something that's godly or moral and and you know you talked or moral and and you know you talked or moral and and you know you talked about things that works 15 years ago

about things that works 15 years ago about things that works 15 years ago don't work anymore I think there are don't work anymore I think there are don't work anymore I think there are people who are tied to sort of the people who are tied to sort of the people who are tied to sort of the emotional and spiritual impact of those emotional and spiritual impact of those emotional and spiritual impact of those things you know that ministry changed my things you know that ministry changed my things you know that ministry changed my life when I was in college so I'm still life when I was in college so I'm still life when I was in college so I'm still attached to it but that ministry is attached to it but that ministry is attached to it but that ministry is completely hokey now right but that completely hokey now right but that completely hokey now right but that doesn't change the effectiveness of it doesn't change the effectiveness of it doesn't change the effectiveness of it 15 years ago it just means we need to 15 years ago it just means we need to 15 years ago it just means we need to find we need to carry the effectiveness find we need to carry the effectiveness find we need to carry the effectiveness forward not the methodology forward or forward not the methodology forward or forward not the methodology forward or not that the structure of it and that's not that the structure of it and that's not that the structure of it and that's the thing that that but they're tied in the thing that that but they're tied in the thing that that but they're tied in people's minds I think specifically in people's minds I think specifically in people's minds I think specifically in the church yeah I wonder too if when we the church yeah I wonder too if when we the church yeah I wonder too if when we r you know communicating to people that r you know communicating to people that r you know communicating to people that we over spiritualize our leadership we over spiritualize our leadership we over spiritualize our leadership decisions and so we all we create this decisions and so we all we create this decisions and so we all we create this problem so we talk about while we're problem so we talk about while we're problem so we talk about while we're going to be doing this and you know we going to be doing this and you know we going to be doing this and you know we and instead of just saying like hey this and instead of just saying like hey this and instead of just saying like hey this is what we're doing for this next season is what we're doing for this next season is what we're doing for this next season you know we're going to try these few you know we're going to try these few you know we're going to try these few things it becomes like we believe that things it becomes like we believe that things it becomes like we believe that God is leading us to do this right which God is leading us to do this right which God is leading us to do this right which sets up in people's heads okay well then sets up in people's heads okay well then sets up in people's heads okay well then that we must always go that way then you that we must always go that way then you that we must always go that way then you know it's a false conflation between you know it's a false conflation between you know it's a false conflation between you know between those two you know I wonder know between those two you know I wonder know between those two you know I wonder if that ultimately then closes off if that ultimately then closes off if that ultimately then closes off you know ideas what would you think when you know ideas what would you think when you know ideas what would you think when you wrote this book who are you really you wrote this book who are you really you wrote this book who are you really targeting at it strikes to me now this targeting at it strikes to me now this targeting at it strikes to me now this could be wrong that this is an even could be wrong that this is an even could be wrong that this is an even broader kind of a broader market book broader kind of a broader market book broader kind of a broader market book than that you're trying to reach out to than that you're trying to reach out to than that you're trying to reach out to not just specifically church leaders or not just specifically church leaders or not just specifically church leaders or even leaders particularly you know you even leaders particularly you know you even leaders particularly you know you this could be easily used as a resource this could be easily used as a resource this could be easily used as a resource with people you know in broader context with people you know in broader context with people you know in broader context you know it's funny when I that's the

you know it's funny when I that's the you know it's funny when I that's the same question every publisher asks when same question every publisher asks when same question every publisher asks when you're pitching a book to them is you you're pitching a book to them is you you're pitching a book to them is you know who's this for and I have a hard know who's this for and I have a hard know who's this for and I have a hard time answering that question because the time answering that question because the time answering that question because the answer is whoever's interested in it but answer is whoever's interested in it but answer is whoever's interested in it but that that that does that's not a very that that that does that's not a very that that that does that's not a very satisfactory answer um it is it is satisfactory answer um it is it is satisfactory answer um it is it is people who genuinely there is a a daily people who genuinely there is a a daily people who genuinely there is a a daily drive to engage Christianity better so drive to engage Christianity better so drive to engage Christianity better so hungry Christians so yeah I mean it i hungry Christians so yeah I mean it i hungry Christians so yeah I mean it i write it in such a way that i hope a write it in such a way that i hope a write it in such a way that i hope a stay-at-home mom reads this and goes oh stay-at-home mom reads this and goes oh stay-at-home mom reads this and goes oh this this helps me engage my kids better this this helps me engage my kids better this this helps me engage my kids better 20-something fresh out of college who's 20-something fresh out of college who's 20-something fresh out of college who's sort of figuring out their their work sort of figuring out their their work sort of figuring out their their work world can look at this and do the same world can look at this and do the same world can look at this and do the same thing and a church leader and because thing and a church leader and because thing and a church leader and because it's because it does i do try to point it's because it does i do try to point it's because it does i do try to point it in different directions because it it in different directions because it it in different directions because it starts with the concept of curiosity and starts with the concept of curiosity and starts with the concept of curiosity and engaging god and engaging truth because engaging god and engaging truth because engaging god and engaging truth because I I my thought in that is that curiosity I I my thought in that is that curiosity I I my thought in that is that curiosity godly curiosity is the pursuit of truth godly curiosity is the pursuit of truth godly curiosity is the pursuit of truth in everything so in turn gauging art in everything so in turn gauging art in everything so in turn gauging art culture people whatever and truth is culture people whatever and truth is culture people whatever and truth is reality as God intended to be so not reality as God intended to be so not reality as God intended to be so not just what exists now but the thing that just what exists now but the thing that just what exists now but the thing that God intends to be real so God's will God intends to be real so God's will God intends to be real so God's will ultimately but but I wanted to kind of ultimately but but I wanted to kind of ultimately but but I wanted to kind of put flesh on that and so that can be put flesh on that and so that can be put flesh on that and so that can be applied anywhere that can be applied applied anywhere that can be applied applied anywhere that can be applied over a cup of coffee that can be applied over a cup of coffee that can be applied over a cup of coffee that can be applied in making a cup of coffee you know if in making a cup of coffee you know if in making a cup of coffee you know if you know for the barista it's just it is you know for the barista it's just it is you know for the barista it's just it is the person who wants to figure out what

the person who wants to figure out what the person who wants to figure out what how to do these things and and I really how to do these things and and I really how to do these things and and I really want it to be for the person who wants want it to be for the person who wants want it to be for the person who wants and needs permission to explore God's and needs permission to explore God's and needs permission to explore God's world and his word in a fresh and and world and his word in a fresh and and world and his word in a fresh and and broader way broader way broader way have you found in your own life that you have you found in your own life that you have you found in your own life that you know you talked about you know know you talked about you know know you talked about you know concentric circles kind of starting concentric circles kind of starting concentric circles kind of starting where you are being curious about those where you are being curious about those where you are being curious about those things that are closest to you but then things that are closest to you but then things that are closest to you but then you know ultimately going out from there you know ultimately going out from there you know ultimately going out from there have you found that your old life that have you found that your old life that have you found that your old life that actually getting outside of the norm of actually getting outside of the norm of actually getting outside of the norm of your normal you know has that been a your normal you know has that been a your normal you know has that been a positive part of you know generating positive part of you know generating positive part of you know generating curiosity or cultivating curiosity in curiosity or cultivating curiosity in curiosity or cultivating curiosity in your life well yeah because it has one your life well yeah because it has one your life well yeah because it has one of two effects it either it either makes of two effects it either it either makes of two effects it either it either makes you it either opens the eyes to all of you it either opens the eyes to all of you it either opens the eyes to all of the things in the world you don't know the things in the world you don't know the things in the world you don't know anything about so talking to two refugee anything about so talking to two refugee anything about so talking to two refugee neighbors I mean I grew up in neighbors I mean I grew up in neighbors I mean I grew up in Minneapolis and during the time I was Minneapolis and during the time I was Minneapolis and during the time I was growing up thousands tens of thousands growing up thousands tens of thousands growing up thousands tens of thousands of Somalis were fleeing and I don't know of Somalis were fleeing and I don't know of Somalis were fleeing and I don't know why they ended up in the frozen north why they ended up in the frozen north why they ended up in the frozen north something about that but there's a it's something about that but there's a it's something about that but there's a it's not just a thriving community I mean not just a thriving community I mean not just a thriving community I mean it's a it's a city-sized population of it's a it's a city-sized population of it's a it's a city-sized population of people now who who have a culture in people now who who have a culture in people now who who have a culture in Minneapolis and I play basketball with Minneapolis and I play basketball with Minneapolis and I play basketball with them and I you as neighbors with them them and I you as neighbors with them them and I you as neighbors with them and went to school with them and and so and went to school with them and and so and went to school with them and and so that that pushed me in one of two that that pushed me in one of two that that pushed me in one of two directions there's either sort of a directions there's either sort of a directions there's either sort of a rigidity that rejects them sort of that rigidity that rejects them sort of that rigidity that rejects them sort of that that inherent human bigotry that stems that inherent human bigotry that stems that inherent human bigotry that stems from fear of the difference or there's from fear of the difference or there's from fear of the difference or there's the recognition that Wow God has created

the recognition that Wow God has created the recognition that Wow God has created people who have experiences and cultures people who have experiences and cultures people who have experiences and cultures and languages that are so far outside my and languages that are so far outside my and languages that are so far outside my own that is that is a beautiful own that is that is a beautiful own that is that is a beautiful opportunity to know them to understand opportunity to know them to understand opportunity to know them to understand them or to see God's fingerprints in them or to see God's fingerprints in them or to see God's fingerprints in that culture and so yeah it absolutely that culture and so yeah it absolutely that culture and so yeah it absolutely is a an expansiveness and I mean growing is a an expansiveness and I mean growing is a an expansiveness and I mean growing up in the city was the same thing that up in the city was the same thing that up in the city was the same thing that the multiculturalism the different the multiculturalism the different the multiculturalism the different income levels they mean music styles income levels they mean music styles income levels they mean music styles like the music that up my my suburban like the music that up my my suburban like the music that up my my suburban white beard and not to say music that I white beard and not to say music that I white beard and not to say music that I love you know i'm not a big like Wilco love you know i'm not a big like Wilco love you know i'm not a big like Wilco and radiohead fans are dead body you and radiohead fans are dead body you and radiohead fans are dead body you know I'm like give me bill withers and know I'm like give me bill withers and know I'm like give me bill withers and Tupac and jazz like that's it and that's Tupac and jazz like that's it and that's Tupac and jazz like that's it and that's just but even that kind of speaks to the just but even that kind of speaks to the just but even that kind of speaks to the curiosity of engaging the things of curiosity of engaging the things of curiosity of engaging the things of different kinds of people so yeah I different kinds of people so yeah I different kinds of people so yeah I think I think getting outside of the so think I think getting outside of the so think I think getting outside of the so the concentric circles starting point is the concentric circles starting point is the concentric circles starting point is the honor the honor the honor but it's not the stopping place right but it's not the stopping place right but it's not the stopping place right because otherwise you're not really because otherwise you're not really because otherwise you're not really curious you tapped out right very good curious you tapped out right very good curious you tapped out right very good and I know even in you know obviously and I know even in you know obviously and I know even in you know obviously this podcast is targeted at it's a lot this podcast is targeted at it's a lot this podcast is targeted at it's a lot of church leaders I know just a of church leaders I know just a of church leaders I know just a practical thing or we can become one of practical thing or we can become one of practical thing or we can become one of the disturbing trends I've seen in my the disturbing trends I've seen in my the disturbing trends I've seen in my own world is we be have become more and own world is we be have become more and own world is we be have become more and more siloed as evangelicals that the more siloed as evangelicals that the more siloed as evangelicals that the kind of evangelical camp is becoming you kind of evangelical camp is becoming you kind of evangelical camp is becoming you know even within our broad circle you know even within our broad circle you know even within our broad circle you know it become more and more it's like know it become more and more it's like know it become more and more it's like you know I would never go to you know it you know I would never go to you know it you know I would never go to you know it you know insert whatever like I'm a you

you know insert whatever like I'm a you you know insert whatever like I'm a you know an attraction alert person I would know an attraction alert person I would know an attraction alert person I would never go to a reformed you know never go to a reformed you know never go to a reformed you know conference because I got those people conference because I got those people conference because I got those people they don't they don't really want to they don't they don't really want to they don't they don't really want to reach people and then vice versa reform reach people and then vice versa reform reach people and then vice versa reform people be like you have it those people people be like you have it those people people be like you have it those people they're not proclaiming the Word of God they're not proclaiming the Word of God they're not proclaiming the Word of God and and you know that it's it's sad and and you know that it's it's sad and and you know that it's it's sad because ultimately what ends up because ultimately what ends up because ultimately what ends up happening is you limit your you know happening is you limit your you know happening is you limit your you know your own ability to stretch and grow and your own ability to stretch and grow and your own ability to stretch and grow and be like hey maybe there is something you be like hey maybe there is something you be like hey maybe there is something you know broader than just our little circle know broader than just our little circle know broader than just our little circle well it was great and where can people well it was great and where can people well it was great and where can people pick up to the curious christian i'm pick up to the curious christian i'm pick up to the curious christian i'm assuming at amazon and at lifeway books assuming at amazon and at lifeway books assuming at amazon and at lifeway books yeah oh yeah you can go to amazon.com yeah oh yeah you can go to amazon.com yeah oh yeah you can go to amazon.com you go to lightweight calm and go to you go to lightweight calm and go to you go to lightweight calm and go to barnes and noble calm if you if they go barnes and noble calm if you if they go barnes and noble calm if you if they go to curious christianbook.com you can you to curious christianbook.com you can you to curious christianbook.com you can you can read a little bit more about the can read a little bit more about the can read a little bit more about the book there's also a little there's sort book there's also a little there's sort book there's also a little there's sort of a fun little quiz about how curious of a fun little quiz about how curious of a fun little quiz about how curious are you there so sort of one of those are you there so sort of one of those are you there so sort of one of those assessments it's like seven questions assessments it's like seven questions assessments it's like seven questions long so it won't take long it just sort long so it won't take long it just sort long so it won't take long it just sort of gives you an answer of what kind of of gives you an answer of what kind of of gives you an answer of what kind of curiosity you have or in some cases curiosity you have or in some cases curiosity you have or in some cases don't have um so curious don't have um so curious don't have um so curious christianbook.com is a great place to go christianbook.com is a great place to go christianbook.com is a great place to go to that's because everybody loves a test to that's because everybody loves a test to that's because everybody loves a test so you know everybody well everybody so you know everybody well everybody so you know everybody well everybody loves to find out more about themselves loves to find out more about themselves loves to find out more about themselves like that's the first thing we're like that's the first thing we're like that's the first thing we're curious about is who i like thinking curious about is who i like thinking curious about is who i like thinking about me so go do that is the about me so go do that is the about me so go do that is the unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they unset maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to taught in seminary well we're going to taught in seminary well we're going to jump into lightning round that part of jump into lightning round that part of jump into lightning round that part of the show where we asked similar the show where we asked similar the show where we asked similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we've got Barnabas Piper with show today we've got Barnabas Piper with show today we've got Barnabas Piper with us so glad to have you these are not us so glad to have you these are not us so glad to have you these are not quite the five questions that you guys quite the five questions that you guys quite the five questions that you guys asked right that's similar what's an asked right that's similar what's an asked right that's similar what's an online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these days Barnabas that's helping you in your days Barnabas that's helping you in your days Barnabas that's helping you in your ministry and work um well in the work

ministry and work um well in the work ministry and work um well in the work side of things we work in the Google side of things we work in the Google side of things we work in the Google environment and the collaborative environment and the collaborative environment and the collaborative ability of like Google sheet ability of like Google sheet ability of like Google sheet google forms google docs all of that i google forms google docs all of that i google forms google docs all of that i actually just recently switched actually just recently switched actually just recently switched positions at work and so the ability to positions at work and so the ability to positions at work and so the ability to handle that transition by sharing things handle that transition by sharing things handle that transition by sharing things that way it's so easy and then on the that way it's so easy and then on the that way it's so easy and then on the personal side i use downcast to organize personal side i use downcast to organize personal side i use downcast to organize and listen to podcasts and that avid and listen to podcasts and that avid and listen to podcasts and that avid podcast listener always looking for new podcast listener always looking for new podcast listener always looking for new good options and so it's i started using good options and so it's i started using good options and so it's i started using it because apples podcast app was it because apples podcast app was it because apples podcast app was terrible when they first launched it and terrible when they first launched it and terrible when they first launched it and i'm stuck with it and love the interface i'm stuck with it and love the interface i'm stuck with it and love the interface so downcast is sort of one of my so downcast is sort of one of my so downcast is sort of one of my personal go to apps very good wow this personal go to apps very good wow this personal go to apps very good wow this is this next question I'm interested to is this next question I'm interested to is this next question I'm interested to know what's a book that you've read in know what's a book that you've read in know what's a book that you've read in the last six months to a year that's the last six months to a year that's the last six months to a year that's shaping your ministry and thinking for a shaping your ministry and thinking for a shaping your ministry and thinking for a guy that works for a publisher this guy that works for a publisher this guy that works for a publisher this would be an interesting question yeah would be an interesting question yeah would be an interesting question yeah there to come to mind the first is um there to come to mind the first is um there to come to mind the first is um his team of rivals it's not a new book his team of rivals it's not a new book his team of rivals it's not a new book with Doris Kearns Goodwin historian and with Doris Kearns Goodwin historian and with Doris Kearns Goodwin historian and it's about Lincoln I the rise of Lincoln it's about Lincoln I the rise of Lincoln it's about Lincoln I the rise of Lincoln to the presidency and the formation of to the presidency and the formation of to the presidency and the formation of his cabinet and I don't know that I've his cabinet and I don't know that I've his cabinet and I don't know that I've ever read a book that had so many ever read a book that had so many ever read a book that had so many leadership lessons wrapped up just in in leadership lessons wrapped up just in in leadership lessons wrapped up just in in history and stories Goodwin is an history and stories Goodwin is an history and stories Goodwin is an incredibly detailed historian I mean incredibly detailed historian I mean incredibly detailed historian I mean it's it's a labor of love to read that it's it's a labor of love to read that it's it's a labor of love to read that book it's substantial but especially book it's substantial but especially book it's substantial but especially with today's political climate I it's a with today's political climate I it's a with today's political climate I it's a it is an evergreen timeless book in it is an evergreen timeless book in it is an evergreen timeless book in terms of leading across party lines terms of leading across party lines terms of leading across party lines Lincoln's humility as a leader his Lincoln's humility as a leader his Lincoln's humility as a leader his constant desire to understand people and

constant desire to understand people and constant desire to understand people and to learn I mean he was an insatiably to learn I mean he was an insatiably to learn I mean he was an insatiably curious person he read poetry he read curious person he read poetry he read curious person he read poetry he read all these things so that's one the other all these things so that's one the other all these things so that's one the other one is a much shorter book it's called one is a much shorter book it's called one is a much shorter book it's called strong and weak by Andy Crouch I Crouch strong and weak by Andy Crouch I Crouch strong and weak by Andy Crouch I Crouch is one of my favorite thinkers because is one of my favorite thinkers because is one of my favorite thinkers because he perpetually sets up paradigms that he perpetually sets up paradigms that he perpetually sets up paradigms that help me understand truth and God and the help me understand truth and God and the help me understand truth and God and the world better and this is a look at at world better and this is a look at at world better and this is a look at at power and weakness and how the two both power and weakness and how the two both power and weakness and how the two both of them are essential in the Christian of them are essential in the Christian of them are essential in the Christian life but how both get get abused in the life but how both get get abused in the life but how both get get abused in the world it's maybe 150 pages long it's a world it's maybe 150 pages long it's a world it's maybe 150 pages long it's a it's a it's a quick read but so much it's a it's a quick read but so much it's a it's a quick read but so much packed in there so team of rivals and packed in there so team of rivals and packed in there so team of rivals and strong and weak by Andy crowds are both strong and weak by Andy crowds are both strong and weak by Andy crowds are both phenomenal that's another ministry that phenomenal that's another ministry that phenomenal that's another ministry that you're looking to these days that you're looking to these days that you're looking to these days that inspires you inspires you inspires you you know in the in the world that I've you know in the in the world that I've you know in the in the world that I've that I've worked in in this church that I've worked in in this church that I've worked in in this church leadership space big churches kind of leadership space big churches kind of leadership space big churches kind of rule the day but I've become more and rule the day but I've become more and rule the day but I've become more and more interested in how small churches more interested in how small churches more interested in how small churches are doing things whether it's rural are doing things whether it's rural are doing things whether it's rural churches or I just recently started churches or I just recently started churches or I just recently started going to a church of maybe two or three going to a church of maybe two or three going to a church of maybe two or three hundred people in East Nashville and hundred people in East Nashville and hundred people in East Nashville and there's just a different kind of life in there's just a different kind of life in there's just a different kind of life in a small church um it's it's very a small church um it's it's very a small church um it's it's very attractive to me as in terms of attractive to me as in terms of attractive to me as in terms of community and things like that but just community and things like that but just community and things like that but just the leadership structures are different the leadership structures are different the leadership structures are different the opportunities are different the the opportunities are different the the opportunities are different the ability to connect with the community is ability to connect with the community is ability to connect with the community is different and so small churches in different and so small churches in different and so small churches in general and I think I think it's also general and I think I think it's also general and I think I think it's also taught me a lot about what is healthy in taught me a lot about what is healthy in taught me a lot about what is healthy in charge and we associated church health charge and we associated church health charge and we associated church health with church sighs and I just seem that

with church sighs and I just seem that with church sighs and I just seem that that's just it's a false metric um that's just it's a false metric um that's just it's a false metric um because I've been at large churches that because I've been at large churches that because I've been at large churches that are pretty cancerous and have been at are pretty cancerous and have been at are pretty cancerous and have been at small churches that are just vibrant and small churches that are just vibrant and small churches that are just vibrant and and so that's that that just sort of and so that's that that just sort of and so that's that that just sort of pool of churches is one that I pool of churches is one that I pool of churches is one that I constantly look to these days cool very constantly look to these days cool very constantly look to these days cool very cool if you could get 15 minutes with cool if you could get 15 minutes with cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would you want to any leader alive who would you want to any leader alive who would you want to get that with and why oh man you sent get that with and why oh man you sent get that with and why oh man you sent this one in advance and that was the one this one in advance and that was the one this one in advance and that was the one that I think I heard the longest i think that I think I heard the longest i think that I think I heard the longest i think i think i would want 15 minutes with i think i would want 15 minutes with i think i would want 15 minutes with barack obama okay thanks very cool um barack obama okay thanks very cool um barack obama okay thanks very cool um because uh setting aside political because uh setting aside political because uh setting aside political things just as the first black president things just as the first black president things just as the first black president ah and then as somebody who especially ah and then as somebody who especially ah and then as somebody who especially as I noticed it more in his second term as I noticed it more in his second term as I noticed it more in his second term just the rise of the the visibility of just the rise of the the visibility of just the rise of the the visibility of how he treated his family publicly so how he treated his family publicly so how he treated his family publicly so true he seemed so um he seemed so true he seemed so um he seemed so true he seemed so um he seemed so respectful so honoring so I mean he respectful so honoring so I mean he respectful so honoring so I mean he genuinely loves his wife right or I mean genuinely loves his wife right or I mean genuinely loves his wife right or I mean that's that's the appearance but then that's that's the appearance but then that's that's the appearance but then also all of the political challenges also all of the political challenges also all of the political challenges working across party lines maybe he just working across party lines maybe he just working across party lines maybe he just I want to know what it was like to be I want to know what it was like to be I want to know what it was like to be him in in the office of President as a him in in the office of President as a him in in the office of President as a black man and with with the political black man and with with the political black man and with with the political climate that it is ah because regardless climate that it is ah because regardless climate that it is ah because regardless of whether you agree with him or of whether you agree with him or of whether you agree with him or disagree with him he certainly seems disagree with him he certainly seems disagree with him he certainly seems like a an honorable respectable person like a an honorable respectable person like a an honorable respectable person who navigated that seemingly really well who navigated that seemingly really well who navigated that seemingly really well absolutely for sure yeah and I think absolutely for sure yeah and I think absolutely for sure yeah and I think they the word on the street was that he

they the word on the street was that he they the word on the street was that he you know part of his way he managed and you know part of his way he managed and you know part of his way he managed and lead was that he you know he was at home lead was that he you know he was at home lead was that he you know he was at home in the evenings you know with his family in the evenings you know with his family in the evenings you know with his family maybe even to the detriment of his maybe even to the detriment of his maybe even to the detriment of his leadership which is interesting but at leadership which is interesting but at leadership which is interesting but at that story doesn't get 12 much she seems that story doesn't get 12 much she seems that story doesn't get 12 much she seems to really ultimately you know you're to really ultimately you know you're to really ultimately you know you're right had seemed to be you know in love right had seemed to be you know in love right had seemed to be you know in love with his wife and kids which is amazing with his wife and kids which is amazing with his wife and kids which is amazing well I know a leading in your well I know a leading in your well I know a leading in your organization's got to be really organization's got to be really organization's got to be really exhausting at times in your own personal exhausting at times in your own personal exhausting at times in your own personal life what do you do just for fun to kind life what do you do just for fun to kind life what do you do just for fun to kind of kick back relax you don't have a good of kick back relax you don't have a good of kick back relax you don't have a good time yeah it's it's book sports and time yeah it's it's book sports and time yeah it's it's book sports and outdoors those are my so I used to play outdoors those are my so I used to play outdoors those are my so I used to play sports and now i have creaky knees and sports and now i have creaky knees and sports and now i have creaky knees and then take you back so now i watch them then take you back so now i watch them then take you back so now i watch them and live vicariously through actual and live vicariously through actual and live vicariously through actual athletes on and then reading i'm usually athletes on and then reading i'm usually athletes on and then reading i'm usually reading four or five books at once reading four or five books at once reading four or five books at once because I never know what I'm going to because I never know what I'm going to because I never know what I'm going to be in the mood for so try to mix it up be in the mood for so try to mix it up be in the mood for so try to mix it up fiction history leadership theology or fiction history leadership theology or fiction history leadership theology or Christian something spiritual formation Christian something spiritual formation Christian something spiritual formation oriented on and then living in Tennessee oriented on and then living in Tennessee oriented on and then living in Tennessee provides all sorts of opportunities for provides all sorts of opportunities for provides all sorts of opportunities for you know great hiking trails and things you know great hiking trails and things you know great hiking trails and things like that so getting out and that's it like that so getting out and that's it like that so getting out and that's it that is one of the best ways to just that is one of the best ways to just that is one of the best ways to just sort of clear my head and it's whether sort of clear my head and it's whether sort of clear my head and it's whether it's prayer or like listening to a it's prayer or like listening to a it's prayer or like listening to a podcast while I hike just coming away podcast while I hike just coming away podcast while I hike just coming away feeling pretty refreshed from that so feeling pretty refreshed from that so feeling pretty refreshed from that so those are three things I just sort of those are three things I just sort of those are three things I just sort of constantly do and trying to include my constantly do and trying to include my constantly do and trying to include my kids and those things as well so getting kids and those things as well so getting kids and those things as well so getting them to watch basketball with me you're them to watch basketball with me you're them to watch basketball with me you're taking them to baseball games or getting taking them to baseball games or getting taking them to baseball games or getting outside and doing things those kinds of outside and doing things those kinds of outside and doing things those kinds of things very cool well that's great if things very cool well that's great if things very cool well that's great if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or about the book the curious about the book the curious about the book the curious christianbook.com is the way any other christianbook.com is the way any other christianbook.com is the way any other way they can get in touch with you on way they can get in touch with you on way they can get in touch with you on twitter and facebook so i have a

twitter and facebook so i have a twitter and facebook so i have a facebook page facebook.com slash b piper facebook page facebook.com slash b piper facebook page facebook.com slash b piper or you can find me at Barnabas Piper on or you can find me at Barnabas Piper on or you can find me at Barnabas Piper on Twitter that is probably where I'm most Twitter that is probably where I'm most Twitter that is probably where I'm most accessible and most responsive so either accessible and most responsive so either accessible and most responsive so either one though right thanks so much for this one though right thanks so much for this one though right thanks so much for this appreciate day on the show today appreciate day on the show today appreciate day on the show today absolutely thank you thank you for absolutely thank you thank you for absolutely thank you thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon ericom ericom ericom don't forget to check out the show notes don't forget to check out the show notes don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at inseminary com it for this episode at inseminary com it for this episode at inseminary com it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up so drop by itunes and leave a reveal so drop by itunes and leave a reveal so drop by itunes and leave a reveal thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast join us next week's unsung re podcast join us next week's unsung re podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish week when we'll learn more stuff we wish week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary