Kent Jacobs on Demystifying Church Growth in a Culture Where Churches Don’t Grow

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alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here and you know every week we try to gather and you know every week we try to gather and you know every week we try to gather together great experts people from together great experts people from together great experts people from various churches that are doing some various churches that are doing some various churches that are doing some great things and today you know you I'm great things and today you know you I'm great things and today you know you I'm super excited that you're gonna that super excited that you're gonna that super excited that you're gonna that you're listening in because today we've you're listening in because today we've you're listening in because today we've got Kent Jacobs from epic church this is got Kent Jacobs from epic church this is got Kent Jacobs from epic church this is a great church you're going to want to a great church you're going to want to a great church you're going to want to hear from realtor check in that's hear from realtor check in that's hear from realtor check in that's experienced some incredible growth in a experienced some incredible growth in a experienced some incredible growth in a part of the country that we don't part of the country that we don't part of the country that we don't normally think of as you know a place normally think of as you know a place normally think of as you know a place where fast growing churches come from so where fast growing churches come from so where fast growing churches come from so Kent thanks so much for being on the Kent thanks so much for being on the Kent thanks so much for being on the show today yeah man thrilled to be here show today yeah man thrilled to be here show today yeah man thrilled to be here with you excited to be able to chat a with you excited to be able to chat a with you excited to be able to chat a little bit nice to hang out again for little bit nice to hang out again for little bit nice to hang out again for sure the question I had it why don't you sure the question I had it why don't you sure the question I had it why don't you start with just telling us a bit about start with just telling us a bit about start with just telling us a bit about epic tell us about you know the church epic tell us about you know the church epic tell us about you know the church of people were show up this weekend what of people were show up this weekend what of people were show up this weekend what would the experience and and give us a would the experience and and give us a would the experience and and give us a kind of the story of what's happened in

kind of the story of what's happened in kind of the story of what's happened in the last few years yeah so church the last few years yeah so church the last few years yeah so church started in 2008 we are in Philadelphia started in 2008 we are in Philadelphia started in 2008 we are in Philadelphia so northeast part of the country and so northeast part of the country and so northeast part of the country and here in this part of the country people here in this part of the country people here in this part of the country people either usually have no church background either usually have no church background either usually have no church background or if they do it's pretty traditional or if they do it's pretty traditional or if they do it's pretty traditional the Catholic something like that and so the Catholic something like that and so the Catholic something like that and so if someone were to walk into church at if someone were to walk into church at if someone were to walk into church at one of our locations we're multi-site one of our locations we're multi-site one of our locations we're multi-site church in the city they would experience church in the city they would experience church in the city they would experience proud the best way to describe would be proud the best way to describe would be proud the best way to describe would be something different different from what something different different from what something different different from what they've known different from what they've known different from what they've known different from what they've experienced or thought church they've experienced or thought church they've experienced or thought church would be like and some the differences would be like and some the differences would be like and some the differences are we reach a lot of young are we reach a lot of young are we reach a lot of young professionals if adults young families professionals if adults young families professionals if adults young families so that that can be different we're very so that that can be different we're very so that that can be different we're very multicultural as it multicultural as it multicultural as it church and in a lot of ways it's just a church and in a lot of ways it's just a church and in a lot of ways it's just a reflection of the city but that's reflection of the city but that's reflection of the city but that's different in church for sure we teach different in church for sure we teach different in church for sure we teach the application there's always some type the application there's always some type the application there's always some type of to do or action step what are you of to do or action step what are you of to do or action step what are you gonna do with what you just heard you gonna do with what you just heard you gonna do with what you just heard you know not not just be hearers but let's know not not just be hearers but let's know not not just be hearers but let's be doers yep so that can be a little be doers yep so that can be a little be doers yep so that can be a little different that's applicable and then different that's applicable and then different that's applicable and then probably the biggest thing though is probably the biggest thing though is probably the biggest thing though is that I think there's this general sense that I think there's this general sense that I think there's this general sense that we're doing something big together that we're doing something big together that we're doing something big together and I I i love that that you know we and I I i love that that you know we and I I i love that that you know we just get to invite more and more people just get to invite more and more people just get to invite more and more people on our mission you know we believe that on our mission you know we believe that on our mission you know we believe that every person matters and we want to we every person matters and we want to we every person matters and we want to we want it to be a place where anyone can want it to be a place where anyone can want it to be a place where anyone can walk through the doors and discover walk through the doors and discover walk through the doors and discover Jesus and the difference that you can Jesus and the difference that you can Jesus and the difference that you can make in your life and so we're trying to make in your life and so we're trying to make in your life and so we're trying to do that together every person in the do that together every person in the do that together every person in the city yeah so yeah tell me about that city yeah so yeah tell me about that city yeah so yeah tell me about that tell me about the name epic every person tell me about the name epic every person tell me about the name epic every person in the city do you really mean every in the city do you really mean every in the city do you really mean every person come on that's crazy that's a

person come on that's crazy that's a person come on that's crazy that's a crazy mission yeah I heard someone say crazy mission yeah I heard someone say crazy mission yeah I heard someone say that you'll you'll go farther chasing that you'll you'll go farther chasing that you'll you'll go farther chasing way to say you go farther chasing way to say you go farther chasing way to say you go farther chasing something you know you can't reach then something you know you can't reach then something you know you can't reach then going after something you know you can going after something you know you can going after something you know you can attain so you know we know that we as a attain so you know we know that we as a attain so you know we know that we as a church can't reach every person in the church can't reach every person in the church can't reach every person in the city it's impossible but we can be part city it's impossible but we can be part city it's impossible but we can be part of reaching every person in the city and of reaching every person in the city and of reaching every person in the city and I think that includes all the other I think that includes all the other I think that includes all the other churches you know doing everything they churches you know doing everything they churches you know doing everything they can as well so we're going after that can as well so we're going after that can as well so we're going after that and you know the the the where the name and you know the the the where the name and you know the the the where the name came from it's fun initially was looking came from it's fun initially was looking came from it's fun initially was looking for a name for the church was walking for a name for the church was walking for a name for the church was walking around downtown and asking people's okay around downtown and asking people's okay around downtown and asking people's okay if there was a new church um you know if there was a new church um you know if there was a new church um you know what do you think would be a good name what do you think would be a good name what do you think would be a good name and had these these listed names and one and had these these listed names and one and had these these listed names and one of them was was OSS and were like man of them was was OSS and were like man of them was was OSS and were like man that would be you know how about that that would be you know how about that that would be you know how about that place with people go in I'll refresh place with people go in I'll refresh place with people go in I'll refresh that type of a thing but turns out that type of a thing but turns out that type of a thing but turns out there's a gentlemen's club in philly there's a gentlemen's club in philly there's a gentlemen's club in philly called away so no server it was like no called away so no server it was like no called away so no server it was like no just not that yeah buddy well maybe you just not that yeah buddy well maybe you just not that yeah buddy well maybe you got robbed because we just went with got robbed because we just went with got robbed because we just went with that but the name epi C stands for every that but the name epi C stands for every that but the name epi C stands for every person in the city um and really just person in the city um and really just person in the city um and really just goes back to our vision see every person goes back to our vision see every person goes back to our vision see every person city may Jesus to forgive run leader city may Jesus to forgive run leader city may Jesus to forgive run leader their life so that's where cancel well their life so that's where cancel well their life so that's where cancel well what are we kind of jump in and break what are we kind of jump in and break what are we kind of jump in and break apart how it is that you're taking steps apart how it is that you're taking steps apart how it is that you're taking steps towards that mission of every person in towards that mission of every person in towards that mission of every person in the city getting a chance to kind of the city getting a chance to kind of the city getting a chance to kind of connect with connect with connect with and you know your church has seen some and you know your church has seen some and you know your church has seen some incredible growth over these last few incredible growth over these last few incredible growth over these last few years you're a humble guy I know you years you're a humble guy I know you years you're a humble guy I know you don't you know you don't want to just don't you know you don't want to just don't you know you don't want to just focus on the numbers but give us a sense focus on the numbers but give us a sense focus on the numbers but give us a sense of some of that you know kind of what

of some of that you know kind of what of some of that you know kind of what does that growth you know curve look does that growth you know curve look does that growth you know curve look like in the last few years yeah so we like in the last few years yeah so we like in the last few years yeah so we started at end of two thousand eight so started at end of two thousand eight so started at end of two thousand eight so will be eight years old in October will be eight years old in October will be eight years old in October really excited about celebrating our really excited about celebrating our really excited about celebrating our birthday and it churches about 1,500 birthday and it churches about 1,500 birthday and it churches about 1,500 people across four locations now so people across four locations now so people across four locations now so we'll multi-site but we're not we're not we'll multi-site but we're not we're not we'll multi-site but we're not we're not mega multi-site we're like small multi mega multi-site we're like small multi mega multi-site we're like small multi signing know what it's called yeah but signing know what it's called yeah but signing know what it's called yeah but um you know it's it's just it's a um you know it's it's just it's a um you know it's it's just it's a reflection of trying to do the best we reflection of trying to do the best we reflection of trying to do the best we can to go further faster in the context can to go further faster in the context can to go further faster in the context of the city that's just kind of how it's of the city that's just kind of how it's of the city that's just kind of how it's it out how it's played out for us um it out how it's played out for us um it out how it's played out for us um well that's Kendra's to highlight for well that's Kendra's to highlight for well that's Kendra's to highlight for people who are listening that that's people who are listening that that's people who are listening that that's rare like a church of that size you know rare like a church of that size you know rare like a church of that size you know in in a city you know that most churches in in a city you know that most churches in in a city you know that most churches you know we know and you know this that you know we know and you know this that you know we know and you know this that most churches are in decline all those most churches are in decline all those most churches are in decline all those statistics those kind of depressing statistics those kind of depressing statistics those kind of depressing statistics out there about you know how statistics out there about you know how statistics out there about you know how bad the church is doing are only worse bad the church is doing are only worse bad the church is doing are only worse within urban and context there they they within urban and context there they they within urban and context there they they only look more negative that you you only look more negative that you you only look more negative that you you know it for the most part but I love know it for the most part but I love know it for the most part but I love that epic is really pushing that bounds that epic is really pushing that bounds that epic is really pushing that bounds going in the opposite direction what is going in the opposite direction what is going in the opposite direction what is it that you think God has used to see it that you think God has used to see it that you think God has used to see that some of that take place and you that some of that take place and you that some of that take place and you know to see you know your ability to know to see you know your ability to know to see you know your ability to reach so many people yeah you know I reach so many people yeah you know I reach so many people yeah you know I always have been fortunate to some always have been fortunate to some always have been fortunate to some degree it's been five loaves to fish um degree it's been five loaves to fish um degree it's been five loaves to fish um nothing but what we do a sexy it's kind nothing but what we do a sexy it's kind nothing but what we do a sexy it's kind of here we go we're going to go do it of here we go we're going to go do it of here we go we're going to go do it was gonna reach people and inches people was gonna reach people and inches people was gonna reach people and inches people of Jesus but there's also a part of it of Jesus but there's also a part of it of Jesus but there's also a part of it just comes down to like strategy and just comes down to like strategy and just comes down to like strategy and process and and all that kind of stuff process and and all that kind of stuff process and and all that kind of stuff and I think that that's an interesting and I think that that's an interesting and I think that that's an interesting thing because church growth a lot of thing because church growth a lot of thing because church growth a lot of times can be so mystifying and you know

times can be so mystifying and you know times can be so mystifying and you know it's like how do you you know it's like it's like how do you you know it's like it's like how do you you know it's like this mystical thing that how do you grab this mystical thing that how do you grab this mystical thing that how do you grab it grab you gonna hold on to it and that it grab you gonna hold on to it and that it grab you gonna hold on to it and that type of thing and and when things are type of thing and and when things are type of thing and and when things are like up and to the right and you've like up and to the right and you've like up and to the right and you've experienced rapid growth you gotta be experienced rapid growth you gotta be experienced rapid growth you gotta be careful because it's in those moments careful because it's in those moments careful because it's in those moments you can thank man this is the next great you can thank man this is the next great you can thank man this is the next great awakening like it's happening right now awakening like it's happening right now awakening like it's happening right now yes oh but then when things you know yes oh but then when things you know yes oh but then when things you know slow a bit um you can think well I guess slow a bit um you can think well I guess slow a bit um you can think well I guess God left us right us as he still what we God left us right us as he still what we God left us right us as he still what we doing anything right or you know what's doing anything right or you know what's doing anything right or you know what's the deal here um but I think I think we the deal here um but I think I think we the deal here um but I think I think we can take some of the mystery away if we can take some of the mystery away if we can take some of the mystery away if we look at some some basic process look at some some basic process look at some some basic process is in approaching that so um I think to is in approaching that so um I think to is in approaching that so um I think to some degree sometimes it's just a growth some degree sometimes it's just a growth some degree sometimes it's just a growth barrier deal he's got a look at where at barrier deal he's got a look at where at barrier deal he's got a look at where at and there's lots of commission mark and there's lots of commission mark and there's lots of commission mark growth barriers online lots of people growth barriers online lots of people growth barriers online lots of people written a lot of things about that and written a lot of things about that and written a lot of things about that and so you just need to change some your so you just need to change some your so you just need to change some your strategy or change them your methods or strategy or change them your methods or strategy or change them your methods or some your processes sometimes it's about some your processes sometimes it's about some your processes sometimes it's about closing your back door right a big one closing your back door right a big one closing your back door right a big one you know as it relates to money I heard you know as it relates to money I heard you know as it relates to money I heard someone say that the fastest way to find someone say that the fastest way to find someone say that the fastest way to find new money is to stop spinning everything new money is to stop spinning everything new money is to stop spinning everything you have true it's so so for church you have true it's so so for church you have true it's so so for church growth I think sometimes the fastest way growth I think sometimes the fastest way growth I think sometimes the fastest way to to keep moving in a growing direction to to keep moving in a growing direction to to keep moving in a growing direction is to look at where you're losing people is to look at where you're losing people is to look at where you're losing people out your back door and figure out what out your back door and figure out what out your back door and figure out what you need to close that back door so that you need to close that back door so that you need to close that back door so that you can retain what God's already you can retain what God's already you can retain what God's already brought be more efficient with who God brought be more efficient with who God brought be more efficient with who God brings you know a type of thing um but I brings you know a type of thing um but I brings you know a type of thing um but I another way of looking at it is looking another way of looking at it is looking another way of looking at it is looking at your front door right and i think a at your front door right and i think a at your front door right and i think a big t the church growth can be making

big t the church growth can be making big t the church growth can be making sure that you you're doing everything sure that you you're doing everything sure that you you're doing everything you can to create an inviting culture you can to create an inviting culture you can to create an inviting culture and so if someone told me this one time and so if someone told me this one time and so if someone told me this one time they said that that church growth is they said that that church growth is they said that that church growth is directly related to your number of directly related to your number of directly related to your number of first-time guests first-time guests who first-time guests first-time guests who first-time guests first-time guests who come through your doors right and so if come through your doors right and so if come through your doors right and so if you if you take that thinking and start you if you take that thinking and start you if you take that thinking and start to kind of play that out essentially it to kind of play that out essentially it to kind of play that out essentially it comes down to alright if if I want the comes down to alright if if I want the comes down to alright if if I want the church over the next year's just for church over the next year's just for church over the next year's just for example say a church to grow by a example say a church to grow by a example say a church to grow by a hundred people and you know our hundred people and you know our hundred people and you know our retention rate is ten percent we retain retention rate is ten percent we retain retention rate is ten percent we retain ten percent who walk through our doors ten percent who walk through our doors ten percent who walk through our doors and I want to grow by a hundred people and I want to grow by a hundred people and I want to grow by a hundred people then how many people how many new people then how many people how many new people then how many people how many new people do I need to have come to the doors in do I need to have come to the doors in do I need to have come to the doors in order to grow by a hundred people over order to grow by a hundred people over order to grow by a hundred people over the next year and the answer is a the next year and the answer is a the next year and the answer is a thousand right so it's just it's just thousand right so it's just it's just thousand right so it's just it's just math and not that is not just saying math and not that is not just saying math and not that is not just saying church growth is just math right um church growth is just math right um church growth is just math right um that'll be the tweet church go just mad that'll be the tweet church go just mad that'll be the tweet church go just mad just mad yeah yeah yeah um no that's not just mad yeah yeah yeah um no that's not just mad yeah yeah yeah um no that's not the case um but but to some degree there the case um but but to some degree there the case um but but to some degree there is some math to it yes and you know the is some math to it yes and you know the is some math to it yes and you know the point of the church is the Great point of the church is the Great point of the church is the Great Commission the point of the church is we Commission the point of the church is we Commission the point of the church is we want to make disciples who make want to make disciples who make want to make disciples who make disciples but that all starts by someone disciples but that all starts by someone disciples but that all starts by someone attending yes I've got to come the first attending yes I've got to come the first attending yes I've got to come the first place place place so I think that's where you got to ask so I think that's where you got to ask so I think that's where you got to ask yourself what are my strategies around yourself what are my strategies around yourself what are my strategies around getting new people through the door yeah getting new people through the door yeah getting new people through the door yeah I love that and first of all I just want I love that and first of all I just want I love that and first of all I just want to underline that that I think there are to underline that that I think there are to underline that that I think there are folks that may be there listening in and folks that may be there listening in and folks that may be there listening in and they're thinking man how do i get my they're thinking man how do i get my they're thinking man how do i get my church growing and they may not even be

church growing and they may not even be church growing and they may not even be aware they don't even know how many aware they don't even know how many aware they don't even know how many first-time guests come to their church first-time guests come to their church first-time guests come to their church and so it's hard for them to even and so it's hard for them to even and so it's hard for them to even wrestle to understand okay well how many wrestle to understand okay well how many wrestle to understand okay well how many of those are staying and and then you of those are staying and and then you of those are staying and and then you know how are we going to grow from there know how are we going to grow from there know how are we going to grow from there a part of this is being a good steward a part of this is being a good steward a part of this is being a good steward of what is already coming and so some of of what is already coming and so some of of what is already coming and so some of that is you know getting a sense of that is you know getting a sense of that is you know getting a sense of where you know what is what does it does where you know what is what does it does where you know what is what does it does your what does your sticky right look your what does your sticky right look your what does your sticky right look like you know is it ten percent are you like you know is it ten percent are you like you know is it ten percent are you you know if you saw a hundred get if you you know if you saw a hundred get if you you know if you saw a hundred get if you saw a hundred people come to your church saw a hundred people come to your church saw a hundred people come to your church last year and fifty of them stayed I can last year and fifty of them stayed I can last year and fifty of them stayed I can tell you things are going amazing at tell you things are going amazing at tell you things are going amazing at your church you know that's amazing your church you know that's amazing your church you know that's amazing right it's probably not that it's right it's probably not that it's right it's probably not that it's probably closer to what you're saying probably closer to what you're saying probably closer to what you're saying that kind of ten to one it might even be that kind of ten to one it might even be that kind of ten to one it might even be twenty to one that we see that that's twenty to one that we see that that's twenty to one that we see that that's pretty typical for you know churches pretty typical for you know churches pretty typical for you know churches that Russell threw that so now how epic that Russell threw that so now how epic that Russell threw that so now how epic are you tracking those two sides of the are you tracking those two sides of the are you tracking those two sides of the equation so number of first-time guests equation so number of first-time guests equation so number of first-time guests and then you know how many of them are and then you know how many of them are and then you know how many of them are sticking or what does that look like for sticking or what does that look like for sticking or what does that look like for you know growth yeah so we do a couple you know growth yeah so we do a couple you know growth yeah so we do a couple things like one is we use a connection things like one is we use a connection things like one is we use a connection card every week yep um and we encourage card every week yep um and we encourage card every week yep um and we encourage everybody to fill it out it's not just everybody to fill it out it's not just everybody to fill it out it's not just the thing that's in there it's like hey the thing that's in there it's like hey the thing that's in there it's like hey if you're a first-time guest grab this if you're a first-time guest grab this if you're a first-time guest grab this thing it's just you everybody pulls the thing it's just you everybody pulls the thing it's just you everybody pulls the thing out and everybody fills up front thing out and everybody fills up front thing out and everybody fills up front and then on the back we have our next and then on the back we have our next and then on the back we have our next step so we're gonna teach the step so we're gonna teach the step so we're gonna teach the application it's okay what how can we application it's okay what how can we application it's okay what how can we pray for you this week and yogi what's pray for you this week and yogi what's pray for you this week and yogi what's your next step all that kind of stuff so your next step all that kind of stuff so your next step all that kind of stuff so it's like a big group activity every it's like a big group activity every it's like a big group activity every single week when we go through our kid I single week when we go through our kid I single week when we go through our kid I do you actually pause the service and do you actually pause the service and do you actually pause the service and fill it out like Jax yourself it this is fill it out like Jax yourself it this is fill it out like Jax yourself it this is the moment now what we're all gonna do the moment now what we're all gonna do the moment now what we're all gonna do that we're I'm gonna do it and we pray that we're I'm gonna do it and we pray that we're I'm gonna do it and we pray and we're saying hey everybody play your

and we're saying hey everybody play your and we're saying hey everybody play your connection card you gotta looks and connection card you gotta looks and connection card you gotta looks and affection card music you know the whole affection card music you know the whole affection card music you know the whole thing and it's card using the whole deal thing and it's card using the whole deal thing and it's card using the whole deal yeah that's important I you know I just yeah that's important I you know I just yeah that's important I you know I just you know underline that I think there's you know underline that I think there's you know underline that I think there's a lot of church leaders who try to do a lot of church leaders who try to do a lot of church leaders who try to do the connection card thing and they just the connection card thing and they just the connection card thing and they just mentioned at the end of the service mentioned at the end of the service mentioned at the end of the service they're like oh yeah hey we got this they're like oh yeah hey we got this they're like oh yeah hey we got this thing if you could fill it out well no thing if you could fill it out well no thing if you could fill it out well no one's gonna do that right nobody feels one's gonna do that right nobody feels one's gonna do that right nobody feels now yeah why is that because you're not now yeah why is that because you're not now yeah why is that because you're not stopping and pausing and so tate you stopping and pausing and so tate you stopping and pausing and so tate you know taking some time in the service know taking some time in the service know taking some time in the service actually making it a part of the actually making it a part of the actually making it a part of the experience a big deal for sure experience a big deal for sure experience a big deal for sure yeah well with our location pastors and yeah well with our location pastors and yeah well with our location pastors and we treat those location past I'm at we treat those location past I'm at we treat those location past I'm at those connection cards are like gold I those connection cards are like gold I those connection cards are like gold I mean it's it's people are giving you mean it's it's people are giving you mean it's it's people are giving you information they're saying this is how information they're saying this is how information they're saying this is how you can pray for me this is the ice is you can pray for me this is the ice is you can pray for me this is the ice is my first time here or my second time my first time here or my second time my first time here or my second time here I'm a returning gasps I'm and what here I'm a returning gasps I'm and what here I'm a returning gasps I'm and what we then can do with it and on so many we then can do with it and on so many we then can do with it and on so many different levels just promotes different levels just promotes different levels just promotes engagement connects with people shows engagement connects with people shows engagement connects with people shows that we really care and love about and that we really care and love about and that we really care and love about and love them and are welcoming it's just love them and are welcoming it's just love them and are welcoming it's just it's huge it's an invaluable tool I it's huge it's an invaluable tool I it's huge it's an invaluable tool I think it was it correctly well let's think it was it correctly well let's think it was it correctly well let's talk about some of the strategies you talk about some of the strategies you talk about some of the strategies you know what are you doing on the to open know what are you doing on the to open know what are you doing on the to open up that front door what does that look up that front door what does that look up that front door what does that look like for you know for epic yeah I part like for you know for epic yeah I part like for you know for epic yeah I part of inviting an inviting culture for us of inviting an inviting culture for us of inviting an inviting culture for us is um kind of having that out the out in is um kind of having that out the out in is um kind of having that out the out in the forefront like even our name epic the forefront like even our name epic the forefront like even our name epic it's every person in the city a guard it's every person in the city a guard it's every person in the city a guard like God's heart beats fastest for those like God's heart beats fastest for those like God's heart beats fastest for those that he doesn't know yet or don't know that he doesn't know yet or don't know that he doesn't know yet or don't know him yet rat don't know him yet and so we him yet rat don't know him yet and so we him yet rat don't know him yet and so we want our church to feel that to know want our church to feel that to know want our church to feel that to know that to hear that you know you know they that to hear that you know you know they that to hear that you know you know they we've heard from from another place you

we've heard from from another place you we've heard from from another place you know you know are you just about the know you know are you just about the know you know are you just about the numbers yet yeah we're just about numbers yet yeah we're just about numbers yet yeah we're just about numbers and that every number has a name numbers and that every number has a name numbers and that every number has a name every name has a story and their story every name has a story and their story every name has a story and their story matters to God so like we say things matters to God so like we say things matters to God so like we say things like that and that's part of our DNA is like that and that's part of our DNA is like that and that's part of our DNA is that people matter and every person that people matter and every person that people matter and every person matters you want every person to be able matters you want every person to be able matters you want every person to be able to come to a place like this and to come to a place like this and to come to a place like this and discover Jesus you give people tools I discover Jesus you give people tools I discover Jesus you give people tools I one is one is a basic like an invite one is one is a basic like an invite one is one is a basic like an invite card yep just look like a business card card yep just look like a business card card yep just look like a business card I'm sure you've seen and that type of I'm sure you've seen and that type of I'm sure you've seen and that type of thing before with information about the thing before with information about the thing before with information about the church just so that somebody can use as church just so that somebody can use as church just so that somebody can use as a tool to say hey you come to church a tool to say hey you come to church a tool to say hey you come to church with me this weekend that type of a deal with me this weekend that type of a deal with me this weekend that type of a deal now we're tooling around with more of a now we're tooling around with more of a now we're tooling around with more of a digital version of that because it digital version of that because it digital version of that because it business cards this so 1980s right think business cards this so 1980s right think business cards this so 1980s right think so yeah you know but if we can do like so yeah you know but if we can do like so yeah you know but if we can do like some type of digital inviting leverage some type of digital inviting leverage some type of digital inviting leverage social media in that way and when we do social media in that way and when we do social media in that way and when we do that every single week every single week that every single week every single week that every single week every single week one of our next steps on the back of the one of our next steps on the back of the one of our next steps on the back of the card is I'll invite a front of church card is I'll invite a front of church card is I'll invite a front of church next week okay every week and every week next week okay every week and every week next week okay every week and every week we say it right and every week we get we say it right and every week we get we say it right and every week we get people invite cards yeah every week okay people invite cards yeah every week okay people invite cards yeah every week okay again I want to underline this here again I want to underline this here again I want to underline this here people so you're telling me um you know people so you're telling me um you know people so you're telling me um you know power of the invite card it's it's a kit power of the invite card it's it's a kit power of the invite card it's it's a kit how often do those change are they how often do those change are they how often do those change are they always the same what do they say on them always the same what do they say on them always the same what do they say on them again this is a strategy I've see again this is a strategy I've see again this is a strategy I've see our context that works consistently it's our context that works consistently it's our context that works consistently it's one of those things that you know if you one of those things that you know if you one of those things that you know if you talk to you know fast growing churches I talk to you know fast growing churches I talk to you know fast growing churches I was talking to a guy who's you know in was talking to a guy who's you know in was talking to a guy who's you know in the you know low single-digits one of the you know low single-digits one of the you know low single-digits one of the fastest growing churches in the the fastest growing churches in the the fastest growing churches in the country I said what did you do the year country I said what did you do the year country I said what did you do the year that you ended up on that list and he that you ended up on that list and he that you ended up on that list and he said listen it was very simple we gave said listen it was very simple we gave said listen it was very simple we gave everyone an invite card every service

everyone an invite card every service everyone an invite card every service I'm like what you're kidding me no no I'm like what you're kidding me no no I'm like what you're kidding me no no he's literally it as as crazy and as he's literally it as as crazy and as he's literally it as as crazy and as simple as it is you know there's simple as it is you know there's simple as it is you know there's something to giving people that physical something to giving people that physical something to giving people that physical or having you know a digital equivalent or having you know a digital equivalent or having you know a digital equivalent lat so kind of talk us through how those lat so kind of talk us through how those lat so kind of talk us through how those cards what do they look like how often cards what do they look like how often cards what do they look like how often do they change each other thing yeah so do they change each other thing yeah so do they change each other thing yeah so they're they're they're same most of the they're they're they're same most of the they're they're they're same most of the year except for whenever we have some year except for whenever we have some year except for whenever we have some special events coming up and we'll special events coming up and we'll special events coming up and we'll change it up to tie to the event you change it up to tie to the event you change it up to tie to the event you know to give a specific invite for that know to give a specific invite for that know to give a specific invite for that particular thing so we'll change it for particular thing so we'll change it for particular thing so we'll change it for Easter will change it for something Easter will change it for something Easter will change it for something called epic day I'll probably talk about called epic day I'll probably talk about called epic day I'll probably talk about that in just a second totally up and that in just a second totally up and that in just a second totally up and encourage people to use it use it around encourage people to use it use it around encourage people to use it use it around that time for Christmas we do the same that time for Christmas we do the same that time for Christmas we do the same type of thing so but on the card is you type of thing so but on the card is you type of thing so but on the card is you know just the basic information for the know just the basic information for the know just the basic information for the church it's it's it's a good piece of church it's it's it's a good piece of church it's it's it's a good piece of marketing it's it's not done poorly it's marketing it's it's not done poorly it's marketing it's it's not done poorly it's done well it's good represents the done well it's good represents the done well it's good represents the church well and the back the car just church well and the back the car just church well and the back the car just has like a short little paragraph about has like a short little paragraph about has like a short little paragraph about kind of dispelling some of the ideas kind of dispelling some of the ideas kind of dispelling some of the ideas that people have about church um I think that people have about church um I think that people have about church um I think it starts with something like a there's it starts with something like a there's it starts with something like a there's a lot of dogmas out there about what a lot of dogmas out there about what a lot of dogmas out there about what churches and and you know we're working churches and and you know we're working churches and and you know we're working hard to try and change some of that and hard to try and change some of that and hard to try and change some of that and we'd love for you to be with us you know we'd love for you to be with us you know we'd love for you to be with us you know where your jeans and we're gonna have a where your jeans and we're gonna have a where your jeans and we're gonna have a good time together that type of a thing good time together that type of a thing good time together that type of a thing so it's um that coupled with somebody so it's um that coupled with somebody so it's um that coupled with somebody saying you got to come with you in my saying you got to come with you in my saying you got to come with you in my church it's something different yeah church it's something different yeah church it's something different yeah it's huge Oh would you give us a copy of it's huge Oh would you give us a copy of it's huge Oh would you give us a copy of that digital copy so we could see those that digital copy so we could see those that digital copy so we could see those parents we could put in the show notes parents we could put in the show notes parents we could put in the show notes that be great people could take a look that be great people could take a look that be great people could take a look and see yeah that would be really good and see yeah that would be really good and see yeah that would be really good you passed over it I want to talk about you passed over it I want to talk about you passed over it I want to talk about epic day because when I heard about this epic day because when I heard about this epic day because when I heard about this I always like this was one of those like I always like this was one of those like I always like this was one of those like lean forward they do what I'd love to lean forward they do what I'd love to lean forward they do what I'd love to hear about epic day tell us about that

hear about epic day tell us about that hear about epic day tell us about that this is a you know a big day strategy this is a you know a big day strategy this is a you know a big day strategy that you're employing at your church it that you're employing at your church it that you're employing at your church it is it is essentially a big day so one of is it is essentially a big day so one of is it is essentially a big day so one of the questions you have to ask as you're the questions you have to ask as you're the questions you have to ask as you're in creating an inviting culture is what in creating an inviting culture is what in creating an inviting culture is what events on your calendar do you have that events on your calendar do you have that events on your calendar do you have that promote inviting we say every sunday is promote inviting we say every sunday is promote inviting we say every sunday is the best sunday to invite some of the the best sunday to invite some of the the best sunday to invite some of the church and then we throw in some ones church and then we throw in some ones church and then we throw in some ones were like no but really this one is yeah were like no but really this one is yeah were like no but really this one is yeah oh so true so epic oh so true so epic oh so true so epic day honestly we just kind of made up our day honestly we just kind of made up our day honestly we just kind of made up our own holiday um essentially where it came own holiday um essentially where it came own holiday um essentially where it came from is and we love Easter Easter is from is and we love Easter Easter is from is and we love Easter Easter is great it's a big day people invite to great it's a big day people invite to great it's a big day people invite to Easter people come back to church on Easter people come back to church on Easter people come back to church on Easter the challenge with Easter though Easter the challenge with Easter though Easter the challenge with Easter though is that it comes on the front of summer is that it comes on the front of summer is that it comes on the front of summer yes and so all those new guests those yes and so all those new guests those yes and so all those new guests those first time people second to time people first time people second to time people first time people second to time people once in a while people who show up you once in a while people who show up you once in a while people who show up you have an opportunity to connect with them have an opportunity to connect with them have an opportunity to connect with them but then you're right in the summer and but then you're right in the summer and but then you're right in the summer and people were off with their plans or or people were off with their plans or or people were off with their plans or or whatever it is so you know we were clear whatever it is so you know we were clear whatever it is so you know we were clear out the idea with a coke a wool what if out the idea with a coke a wool what if out the idea with a coke a wool what if Easter was on the front side of a growth Easter was on the front side of a growth Easter was on the front side of a growth season and we know the girls seasons for season and we know the girls seasons for season and we know the girls seasons for churches are a beginning of the fall churches are a beginning of the fall churches are a beginning of the fall like and then also the beginning of like and then also the beginning of like and then also the beginning of spring so we're winter spring and so we spring so we're winter spring and so we spring so we're winter spring and so we create these big days and strategically create these big days and strategically create these big days and strategically place them at those times knowing that place them at those times knowing that place them at those times knowing that we would then have several weeks after we would then have several weeks after we would then have several weeks after that to really connect and try to bring that to really connect and try to bring that to really connect and try to bring people into the life of the church so people into the life of the church so people into the life of the church so epic day like I said it's our own epic day like I said it's our own epic day like I said it's our own holiday that's the day that we say hey holiday that's the day that we say hey holiday that's the day that we say hey if you call epic your church home you if you call epic your church home you if you call epic your church home you need to be here on that day so we this need to be here on that day so we this need to be here on that day so we this internal marketing component of that internal marketing component of that internal marketing component of that where we get everybody's part of our where we get everybody's part of our where we get everybody's part of our church to be there at the same time but church to be there at the same time but church to be there at the same time but then also there's the external part then also there's the external part then also there's the external part where we're saying we want you to make where we're saying we want you to make where we're saying we want you to make an inept day for somebody else yeah like

an inept day for somebody else yeah like an inept day for somebody else yeah like we want you to bring your family your we want you to bring your family your we want you to bring your family your friends your coworker that type of thing friends your coworker that type of thing friends your coworker that type of thing and and we also tell them we say hey you and and we also tell them we say hey you and and we also tell them we say hey you know that message that you hear and know that message that you hear and know that message that you hear and you're like gosh if I didn't know you you're like gosh if I didn't know you you're like gosh if I didn't know you were gonna say that then I would have were gonna say that then I would have were gonna say that then I would have brought so-and-so all right would have brought so-and-so all right would have brought so-and-so all right would have brought so-and-so yep so we tell me on brought so-and-so yep so we tell me on brought so-and-so yep so we tell me on that day we're going to teach that that day we're going to teach that that day we're going to teach that message right like I'm telling you now message right like I'm telling you now message right like I'm telling you now so you have no excuses yes so bring them so you have no excuses yes so bring them so you have no excuses yes so bring them on that day we usually do some type of on that day we usually do some type of on that day we usually do some type of swag I tell you what I don't know what swag I tell you what I don't know what swag I tell you what I don't know what it is about t-shirt so true I know where it is about t-shirt so true I know where it is about t-shirt so true I know where you're going something about t-shirts you're going something about t-shirts you're going something about t-shirts people will knock over small children people will knock over small children people will knock over small children and just to get a t-shirt oh no trend and just to get a t-shirt oh no trend and just to get a t-shirt oh no trend it's cool too because it creates a sense it's cool too because it creates a sense it's cool too because it creates a sense of unity and identity and hey we're all of unity and identity and hey we're all of unity and identity and hey we're all part of this big team together so we'll part of this big team together so we'll part of this big team together so we'll do a t-shirt or we'll do some other type do a t-shirt or we'll do some other type do a t-shirt or we'll do some other type of swag sunglasses or something like of swag sunglasses or something like of swag sunglasses or something like that this is it for philly or something that this is it for philly or something that this is it for philly or something like that on it and it's just it's just like that on it and it's just it's just like that on it and it's just it's just a big day we celebrate we have a lot of a big day we celebrate we have a lot of a big day we celebrate we have a lot of fun and they've been they've been great fun and they've been they've been great fun and they've been they've been great I think growth catalysts for us I think growth catalysts for us I think growth catalysts for us throughout the year yeah a couple things throughout the year yeah a couple things throughout the year yeah a couple things to pull apart there I think one of the to pull apart there I think one of the to pull apart there I think one of the things about big days things about big days things about big days like epic Day or Easter or Christmas you like epic Day or Easter or Christmas you like epic Day or Easter or Christmas you know don't ignore the fact that a part know don't ignore the fact that a part know don't ignore the fact that a part of this is getting people who are on the of this is getting people who are on the of this is getting people who are on the fringe of your church who maybe even if fringe of your church who maybe even if fringe of your church who maybe even if you were to ask them what church they go you were to ask them what church they go you were to ask them what church they go to they may say I go to epic but you to they may say I go to epic but you to they may say I go to epic but you know and I know they don't show up all know and I know they don't show up all know and I know they don't show up all the time you know what I know that the time you know what I know that the time you know what I know that they're just not there all the time and they're just not there all the time and they're just not there all the time and so a creating an excuse to call all so a creating an excuse to call all so a creating an excuse to call all those people back in i talk about recall those people back in i talk about recall those people back in i talk about recall and it's like hey you cut you need to be and it's like hey you cut you need to be and it's like hey you cut you need to be here for that day you know that is a

here for that day you know that is a here for that day you know that is a part of this equation you know that's a part of this equation you know that's a part of this equation you know that's a part of of growing your church and it's part of of growing your church and it's part of of growing your church and it's a part of closing the back door it's a a part of closing the back door it's a a part of closing the back door it's a part of creating a great experience and part of creating a great experience and part of creating a great experience and there there's something around I don't there there's something around I don't there there's something around I don't know if you've experienced this there's know if you've experienced this there's know if you've experienced this there's there's a big part of creating an there's a big part of creating an there's a big part of creating an inviting culture typically people who inviting culture typically people who inviting culture typically people who are on the fringe they actually have the are on the fringe they actually have the are on the fringe they actually have the most number of relationships active most number of relationships active most number of relationships active relationships that they could use to relationships that they could use to relationships that they could use to invite to you know to come into the invite to you know to come into the invite to you know to come into the church sometimes and there's this weird church sometimes and there's this weird church sometimes and there's this weird thing that happens as your journeying thing that happens as your journeying thing that happens as your journeying with the church longer over time your with the church longer over time your with the church longer over time your social network gets filled with people social network gets filled with people social network gets filled with people from the church which is really positive from the church which is really positive from the church which is really positive which is wonderful that's great but what which is wonderful that's great but what which is wonderful that's great but what it can do is actually hamper your it can do is actually hamper your it can do is actually hamper your ability to invite people to come in ability to invite people to come in ability to invite people to come in because you're like everybody i knows in because you're like everybody i knows in because you're like everybody i knows in my small group or i serve and you know i my small group or i serve and you know i my small group or i serve and you know i got there's four people at work and I got there's four people at work and I got there's four people at work and I vited them all and they're not coming vited them all and they're not coming vited them all and they're not coming and so you know really drawing in some and so you know really drawing in some and so you know really drawing in some of those fringe people you know for sure of those fringe people you know for sure of those fringe people you know for sure and then I think the whole idea the swag and then I think the whole idea the swag and then I think the whole idea the swag thing the t-shirt thing you know I feel thing the t-shirt thing you know I feel thing the t-shirt thing you know I feel like I've said that so many times in on like I've said that so many times in on like I've said that so many times in on seminary but it's very true there is seminary but it's very true there is seminary but it's very true there is something about particularly t-shirts something about particularly t-shirts something about particularly t-shirts there's a disproportionate value to them there's a disproportionate value to them there's a disproportionate value to them the the cost that they what they the the cost that they what they the the cost that they what they actually cost versus what people think actually cost versus what people think actually cost versus what people think they've out what how much they're valued they've out what how much they're valued they've out what how much they're valued is way disproportionate so you know is way disproportionate so you know is way disproportionate so you know people will do crazy things for t-shirts people will do crazy things for t-shirts people will do crazy things for t-shirts it's amazing yeah which is great so I it's amazing yeah which is great so I it's amazing yeah which is great so I have atoms are at at our last ever do have atoms are at at our last ever do have atoms are at at our last ever do some you said made me think about this some you said made me think about this some you said made me think about this um this lady walked up to me and she um this lady walked up to me and she um this lady walked up to me and she literally she has this crowd of people literally she has this crowd of people literally she has this crowd of people behind her and she says she says hey

behind her and she says she says hey behind her and she says she says hey Kent this is my row like she brought oh Kent this is my row like she brought oh Kent this is my row like she brought oh that's great oh but you know it was it that's great oh but you know it was it that's great oh but you know it was it was an epic day thing yep it was like was an epic day thing yep it was like was an epic day thing yep it was like this is my row you know and you know so this is my row you know and you know so this is my row you know and you know so so many stories and on those epic is it so many stories and on those epic is it so many stories and on those epic is it be important too be important too be important too to orient kind of really as much as to orient kind of really as much as to orient kind of really as much as possible um part of creating inviting possible um part of creating inviting possible um part of creating inviting culture is reminding people that when culture is reminding people that when culture is reminding people that when they invite that's like one of the most they invite that's like one of the most they invite that's like one of the most spiritual things they'll probably do in spiritual things they'll probably do in spiritual things they'll probably do in a whole week yes yes um that that God a whole week yes yes um that that God a whole week yes yes um that that God has tapped them on the shoulder and as has tapped them on the shoulder and as has tapped them on the shoulder and as it invited them to be part of what he's it invited them to be part of what he's it invited them to be part of what he's doing in this city or in that part of doing in this city or in that part of doing in this city or in that part of the world in a very special way you know the world in a very special way you know the world in a very special way you know that possibly no one else could have that possibly no one else could have that possibly no one else could have done you know because of that done you know because of that done you know because of that relationship and so when someone comes relationship and so when someone comes relationship and so when someone comes to epic you know we don't take that to epic you know we don't take that to epic you know we don't take that lightly we want to make sure that we're lightly we want to make sure that we're lightly we want to make sure that we're celebrating life change you know we're celebrating life change you know we're celebrating life change you know we're telling stories of life change and telling stories of life change and telling stories of life change and showing stuff on the video but what God showing stuff on the video but what God showing stuff on the video but what God has done and there's something about has done and there's something about has done and there's something about seeing that that makes you go I I want seeing that that makes you go I I want seeing that that makes you go I I want that for me I want that for everybody i that for me I want that for everybody i that for me I want that for everybody i know that helps to kind of you know know that helps to kind of you know know that helps to kind of you know build and create that culture this is build and create that culture this is build and create that culture this is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary let's jump into the taught in seminary let's jump into the taught in seminary let's jump into the lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode where we talked and asked similar where we talked and asked similar where we talked and asked similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we're super honored to have show today we're super honored to have show today we're super honored to have Kent Jacobs with us from epic Church a Kent Jacobs with us from epic Church a Kent Jacobs with us from epic Church a great church that you need to follow and great church that you need to follow and great church that you need to follow and be in track they're doing some amazing be in track they're doing some amazing be in track they're doing some amazing thing so Ken what's an online resource thing so Ken what's an online resource thing so Ken what's an online resource that you're using these days that's that you're using these days that's that you're using these days that's helping your ministry yeah a big one for helping your ministry yeah a big one for helping your ministry yeah a big one for me is notability which is an app on my me is notability which is an app on my me is notability which is an app on my iPad what I love about it is I can take

iPad what I love about it is I can take iPad what I love about it is I can take notes if I'm at a conference or listen notes if I'm at a conference or listen notes if I'm at a conference or listen to someone speak I can take notes and it to someone speak I can take notes and it to someone speak I can take notes and it takes the audio at the same time and I takes the audio at the same time and I takes the audio at the same time and I can actually drag to the to the point in can actually drag to the to the point in can actually drag to the to the point in my notes where I want to listen to the my notes where I want to listen to the my notes where I want to listen to the audio again and it picks up the audio audio again and it picks up the audio audio again and it picks up the audio right there so that's that's huge that's right there so that's that's huge that's right there so that's that's huge that's a task oh you know so I go back and I a task oh you know so I go back and I a task oh you know so I go back and I heard somebody say and I can find it heard somebody say and I can find it heard somebody say and I can find it pretty quickly instead of like I gotta pretty quickly instead of like I gotta pretty quickly instead of like I gotta listen to the next hour of content yeah listen to the next hour of content yeah listen to the next hour of content yeah yeah right that's very cool i love that yeah right that's very cool i love that yeah right that's very cool i love that i'd never heard that before that's i'd never heard that before that's i'd never heard that before that's really cool what's a book you've read in really cool what's a book you've read in really cool what's a book you've read in the last I don't know six months maybe a the last I don't know six months maybe a the last I don't know six months maybe a year that's had an impact on your year that's had an impact on your year that's had an impact on your thinking or ministry yeah so a big one thinking or ministry yeah so a big one thinking or ministry yeah so a big one for us one of my all-time favorites for us one of my all-time favorites for us one of my all-time favorites actually read in last year was the actually read in last year was the actually read in last year was the advantage of a patrick lencioni tastic advantage of a patrick lencioni tastic advantage of a patrick lencioni tastic book um that's a great one definitely book um that's a great one definitely book um that's a great one definitely what's another ministry that you're what's another ministry that you're what's another ministry that you're looking at that inspires you um probably looking at that inspires you um probably looking at that inspires you um probably I mean we love we love northpoint and I mean we love we love northpoint and I mean we love we love northpoint and what they're doing full of liquid church what they're doing full of liquid church what they're doing full of liquid church up in New Jersey oh yeah up in New Jersey oh yeah up in New Jersey oh yeah yeah man um we love we love seeing what yeah man um we love we love seeing what yeah man um we love we love seeing what God's doing even I mean even at God's doing even I mean even at God's doing even I mean even at NewSpring and and um yeah gosh elevation NewSpring and and um yeah gosh elevation NewSpring and and um yeah gosh elevation and those types of trip this is really and those types of trip this is really and those types of trip this is really cool it's just you know trying to pick cool it's just you know trying to pick cool it's just you know trying to pick up some things along the way there's a up some things along the way there's a up some things along the way there's a big implants trust no it's very good if big implants trust no it's very good if big implants trust no it's very good if you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would you want to get that alive who would you want to get that alive who would you want to get that with and why hands down the libels I with and why hands down the libels I with and why hands down the libels I mean he's like The Godfather for one mean he's like The Godfather for one mean he's like The Godfather for one right exactly you know but bill hybels right exactly you know but bill hybels right exactly you know but bill hybels in 2000-2005 I went to a conference out

in 2000-2005 I went to a conference out in 2000-2005 I went to a conference out willow and he spoke for 42 minutes and willow and he spoke for 42 minutes and willow and he spoke for 42 minutes and it completely changed my life because he it completely changed my life because he it completely changed my life because he talked about the first church next talked about the first church next talked about the first church next chapter 2 and I never first time I chapter 2 and I never first time I chapter 2 and I never first time I really had a vision for the church mmm really had a vision for the church mmm really had a vision for the church mmm mean really um and it totally changed mean really um and it totally changed mean really um and it totally changed the whole rest of my life so I i would i the whole rest of my life so I i would i the whole rest of my life so I i would i would take a minute at that time just would take a minute at that time just would take a minute at that time just saying thank you so much and then i saying thank you so much and then i saying thank you so much and then i would shut up and i would think the next would shut up and i would think the next would shut up and i would think the next 14 minutes and go absolutely yeah I 14 minutes and go absolutely yeah I 14 minutes and go absolutely yeah I similar experience you know I had similar experience you know I had similar experience you know I had experienced about you know I at willow experienced about you know I at willow experienced about you know I at willow years ago where you know it was probably years ago where you know it was probably years ago where you know it was probably 20 years ago and i went i SAT like in 20 years ago and i went i SAT like in 20 years ago and i went i SAT like in the probably second or third row it's the probably second or third row it's the probably second or third row it's just that a normal service wasn't at a just that a normal service wasn't at a just that a normal service wasn't at a conference and I was so blown away by conference and I was so blown away by conference and I was so blown away by what I saw I literally thought up until what I saw I literally thought up until what I saw I literally thought up until that point I thought church had to suck that point I thought church had to suck that point I thought church had to suck I thought it had to be boring I didn't I thought it had to be boring I didn't I thought it had to be boring I didn't think a connector I was in ministry and think a connector I was in ministry and think a connector I was in ministry and I didn't think it could connect to real I didn't think it could connect to real I didn't think it could connect to real life I didn't think it could be life I didn't think it could be life I didn't think it could be life-giving and I literally broke it out life-giving and I literally broke it out life-giving and I literally broke it out in tears because I was like oh my in tears because I was like oh my in tears because I was like oh my goodness it was like this paradigm shift goodness it was like this paradigm shift goodness it was like this paradigm shift that really have my whole life's been that really have my whole life's been that really have my whole life's been shaped by so yeah bill hi will shout out shaped by so yeah bill hi will shout out shaped by so yeah bill hi will shout out to him obviously incredible incredible to him obviously incredible incredible to him obviously incredible incredible leaders so well I appreciate you being leaders so well I appreciate you being leaders so well I appreciate you being on the show I'm sure you know leading an on the show I'm sure you know leading an on the show I'm sure you know leading an epic takes a lot of time effort energy epic takes a lot of time effort energy epic takes a lot of time effort energy when you just want to kick back and when you just want to kick back and when you just want to kick back and relax what do you do for fun um I more relax what do you do for fun um I more relax what do you do for fun um I more than anything I love to be with my than anything I love to be with my than anything I love to be with my family I've got two kids kalene Cohen family I've got two kids kalene Cohen family I've got two kids kalene Cohen and my wife Tiffany so I like I like and my wife Tiffany so I like I like and my wife Tiffany so I like I like just hanging out with them that's a ton just hanging out with them that's a ton just hanging out with them that's a ton of fun we we like going to movies of fun we we like going to movies of fun we we like going to movies playing games I'm a huge Eagles fan that playing games I'm a huge Eagles fan that playing games I'm a huge Eagles fan that type of stuff last week last week I type of stuff last week last week I type of stuff last week last week I started fishing nice last week so far

started fishing nice last week so far started fishing nice last week so far I've just fed fish I've just fed fish I've just fed fish I think exactly that great time you've I think exactly that great time you've I think exactly that great time you've drowned a lot of worms well Ken if drowned a lot of worms well Ken if drowned a lot of worms well Ken if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that with the church how can they do that with the church how can they do that yeah epic dot church that's the website yeah epic dot church that's the website yeah epic dot church that's the website all of our contact information is on all of our contact information is on all of our contact information is on there anybody on our team their contact there anybody on our team their contact there anybody on our team their contact information is there and we're going to information is there and we're going to information is there and we're going to do anything we can to help and love talk do anything we can to help and love talk do anything we can to help and love talk to chop and that type of stuff good to chop and that type of stuff good to chop and that type of stuff good thank you so much thank you feeling to thank you so much thank you feeling to thank you so much thank you feeling to show through yeah brother closet thank show through yeah brother closet thank show through yeah brother closet thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung you for tuning in to this week's unsung you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to re podcast don't be shy we'd love to re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie maneri inbox you connect check out uncie maneri inbox you connect check out uncie maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on Twitter add can use connect with rich on Twitter add can use connect with rich on Twitter add rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon erycom don't forget to check unsummon erycom don't forget to check unsummon erycom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri com it includes links to unset Maneri com it includes links to unset Maneri com it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary