Joshua Mauney on Building & Releasing Teams for Ministry

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practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have drive your ministry further faster have drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry a sinking feeling that your ministry a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join thousands of others and pursuit of stuff thousands of others and pursuit of stuff thousands of others and pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the podcast my name everybody welcome to the podcast my name everybody welcome to the podcast my name is rich the host around these parts is rich the host around these parts is rich the host around these parts listen we're so glad that you've decided listen we're so glad that you've decided listen we're so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today we do to spend some time with us today we do to spend some time with us today we do these podcasts work because because these podcasts work because because these podcasts work because because we're hoping they'll encourage you but we're hoping they'll encourage you but we're hoping they'll encourage you but also challenge you and I think today's also challenge you and I think today's also challenge you and I think today's podcast is really going to do that we've podcast is really going to do that we've podcast is really going to do that we've got job Josh money from Turning Point got job Josh money from Turning Point got job Josh money from Turning Point Church so glad to have you Josh welcome Church so glad to have you Josh welcome Church so glad to have you Josh welcome to the show man thank you so much what to the show man thank you so much what to the show man thank you so much what an honor this is going to be great for an honor this is going to be great for an honor this is going to be great for folks that don't know Turning Point folks that don't know Turning Point folks that don't know Turning Point Church it's a fantastic church if you Church it's a fantastic church if you Church it's a fantastic church if you don't know them you really should lean don't know them you really should lean don't know them you really should lean in and get to know them in Lexington in and get to know them in Lexington in and get to know them in Lexington Kentucky Josh why don't you tell us a Kentucky Josh why don't you tell us a Kentucky Josh why don't you tell us a little bit about your church give us a little bit about your church give us a little bit about your church give us a kind of a flavor of turning point you kind of a flavor of turning point you kind of a flavor of turning point you know i would say when we started the

know i would say when we started the know i would say when we started the church we said you know Hillsong Church church we said you know Hillsong Church church we said you know Hillsong Church was going to be known for its music we was going to be known for its music we was going to be known for its music we have we got churches like Healing Place have we got churches like Healing Place have we got churches like Healing Place church in Baton Rouge that's going to be church in Baton Rouge that's going to be church in Baton Rouge that's going to be known for their missions and outreach known for their missions and outreach known for their missions and outreach and and I just said man let's let this and and I just said man let's let this and and I just said man let's let this house be known for the restoration of house be known for the restoration of house be known for the restoration of the family and so very cool we just it's the family and so very cool we just it's the family and so very cool we just it's a real it's a real heartbeat of hours a real it's a real heartbeat of hours a real it's a real heartbeat of hours and and something that we spent a lot of and and something that we spent a lot of and and something that we spent a lot of time talking about it focusing on him time talking about it focusing on him time talking about it focusing on him but the church I would just uh the the but the church I would just uh the the but the church I would just uh the the way that I would describe what a weekend way that I would describe what a weekend way that I would describe what a weekend would be like with us is I want it to be would be like with us is I want it to be would be like with us is I want it to be like fresh air breathed into your lungs like fresh air breathed into your lungs like fresh air breathed into your lungs mmm and every Sunday when you walk out I mmm and every Sunday when you walk out I mmm and every Sunday when you walk out I wanted to be like we took something off wanted to be like we took something off wanted to be like we took something off you not put something on you very cool you not put something on you very cool you not put something on you very cool and no that's very cool when you talk and no that's very cool when you talk and no that's very cool when you talk about restoration of the family what about restoration of the family what about restoration of the family what does that look like for you how does does that look like for you how does does that look like for you how does that kind of that kind of that kind of work itself out as a practical kind of work itself out as a practical kind of work itself out as a practical kind of focus for your church yeah well the the focus for your church yeah well the the focus for your church yeah well the the focus of our group life and we're a very focus of our group life and we're a very focus of our group life and we're a very groups heavy church where in fact we groups heavy church where in fact we groups heavy church where in fact we would say it in this way we're we're a would say it in this way we're we're a would say it in this way we're we're a church of groups not with groups right church of groups not with groups right church of groups not with groups right very calm and so we're very groups heavy very calm and so we're very groups heavy very calm and so we're very groups heavy and so we focus heavily on married child and so we focus heavily on married child and so we focus heavily on married child raising young marrieds I mean a blended raising young marrieds I mean a blended raising young marrieds I mean a blended family of all we really focus on that family of all we really focus on that family of all we really focus on that but then marriage events and weekends but then marriage events and weekends but then marriage events and weekends are really the oak kind of extra thing are really the oak kind of extra thing are really the oak kind of extra thing we ever do right and but we don't do we ever do right and but we don't do we ever do right and but we don't do events just for a vent sake we only ever events just for a vent sake we only ever events just for a vent sake we only ever do events to try to get more people in do events to try to get more people in do events to try to get more people in our church into marriage groups mhm so our church into marriage groups mhm so our church into marriage groups mhm so we just really trying to drive that so we just really trying to drive that so we just really trying to drive that so and then the byproduct is we've had

and then the byproduct is we've had and then the byproduct is we've had several families that were like legally several families that were like legally several families that were like legally divorced like a paper signed right on divorced like a paper signed right on divorced like a paper signed right on they paid the bills done is it's over they paid the bills done is it's over they paid the bills done is it's over with right that we have remarried wow with right that we have remarried wow with right that we have remarried wow that's incredible yeah so it's just it's that's incredible yeah so it's just it's that's incredible yeah so it's just it's been really neat to watch God just I been really neat to watch God just I been really neat to watch God just I mean just fully restoring families from mean just fully restoring families from mean just fully restoring families from affairs and just I mean you name it affairs and just I mean you name it affairs and just I mean you name it right and he's just he's bringing it right and he's just he's bringing it right and he's just he's bringing it back together and it's just because it's back together and it's just because it's back together and it's just because it's just a you know I came from a mess of a just a you know I came from a mess of a just a you know I came from a mess of a family mm-hmm and so we just said man I family mm-hmm and so we just said man I family mm-hmm and so we just said man I think God can pour life back into that think God can pour life back into that think God can pour life back into that bear in place that thing the devil bear in place that thing the devil bear in place that thing the devil trying to take from me it's funny I mean trying to take from me it's funny I mean trying to take from me it's funny I mean every time I stand up in front of a every time I stand up in front of a every time I stand up in front of a couple that had been ripped apart that couple that had been ripped apart that couple that had been ripped apart that we're putting back together it's just we're putting back together it's just we're putting back together it's just like God says I didn't forget about you like God says I didn't forget about you like God says I didn't forget about you and where you came from I'm redeeming and where you came from I'm redeeming and where you came from I'm redeeming that time and it's just a really it's that time and it's just a really it's that time and it's just a really it's just a sweet reminder that that he just a sweet reminder that that he just a sweet reminder that that he brings us through something so he so brings us through something so he so brings us through something so he so that we can bring other people through that we can bring other people through that we can bring other people through something oh very cool hey man that's something oh very cool hey man that's something oh very cool hey man that's great that's very cool well you know if great that's very cool well you know if great that's very cool well you know if people kind of resonate around your people kind of resonate around your people kind of resonate around your church a little bit they start to see church a little bit they start to see church a little bit they start to see that it's not really just a one-man show that it's not really just a one-man show that it's not really just a one-man show there's a lot going on there's a lot of there's a lot going on there's a lot of there's a lot going on there's a lot of teams a lot of kind of groups of people teams a lot of kind of groups of people teams a lot of kind of groups of people that are our lead in is that it's a fair that are our lead in is that it's a fair that are our lead in is that it's a fair assessment that's kind of what I see assessment that's kind of what I see assessment that's kind of what I see from the outside but is that what you're from the outside but is that what you're from the outside but is that what you're is that the way you see it that's very is that the way you see it that's very is that the way you see it that's very much the hope I mean I I have been much the hope I mean I I have been much the hope I mean I I have been constantly working since the day we constantly working since the day we constantly working since the day we started the church to work myself out of started the church to work myself out of started the church to work myself out of a job a job a job very cool so how do you do that let's very cool so how do you do that let's very cool so how do you do that let's let's kind of dig into the team you know let's kind of dig into the team you know let's kind of dig into the team you know I think a team everybody that listen I think a team everybody that listen I think a team everybody that listen this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah

this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah yeah I can't do it all myself I know yeah I can't do it all myself I know yeah I can't do it all myself I know that I know that I know that but how do that I know that I know that but how do that I know that I know that but how do we actually build teams what it was what we actually build teams what it was what we actually build teams what it was what does that actually look like what are does that actually look like what are does that actually look like what are some handles we can give church leaders some handles we can give church leaders some handles we can give church leaders today to be thinking about team-based today to be thinking about team-based today to be thinking about team-based ministry yeah it's great i mean i think ministry yeah it's great i mean i think ministry yeah it's great i mean i think you know to use the old john maxwell you know to use the old john maxwell you know to use the old john maxwell everything rises and falls on leadership everything rises and falls on leadership everything rises and falls on leadership and so the problem is i just don't think and so the problem is i just don't think and so the problem is i just don't think we feel comfortable or have a good like we feel comfortable or have a good like we feel comfortable or have a good like you said good handles on how to get the you said good handles on how to get the you said good handles on how to get the leaders first I mean teams don't matter leaders first I mean teams don't matter leaders first I mean teams don't matter if you don't have leaders all right and if you don't have leaders all right and if you don't have leaders all right and so teams without leaders are just groups so teams without leaders are just groups so teams without leaders are just groups of just groups of people standing places of just groups of people standing places of just groups of people standing places just spit on it and confused and coming just spit on it and confused and coming just spit on it and confused and coming and quite honestly coming to their own and quite honestly coming to their own and quite honestly coming to their own conclusions yes so we've got to have conclusions yes so we've got to have conclusions yes so we've got to have great leaders the problem is we we don't great leaders the problem is we we don't great leaders the problem is we we don't I don't think have a great strategy for I don't think have a great strategy for I don't think have a great strategy for that a lot of time in in the local that a lot of time in in the local that a lot of time in in the local church and we kind of go with the down church and we kind of go with the down church and we kind of go with the down here in the south we kind of go with the here in the south we kind of go with the here in the south we kind of go with the hey any I want to help yeah right right hey any I want to help yeah right right hey any I want to help yeah right right right right and so it's more that right right and so it's more that right right and so it's more that volunteer base like whoever standing volunteer base like whoever standing volunteer base like whoever standing around you're gonna get recruited and around you're gonna get recruited and around you're gonna get recruited and the only way you can become a leader in the only way you can become a leader in the only way you can become a leader in a lot of churches is you just you just a lot of churches is you just you just a lot of churches is you just you just have to outlive someone and the heads up have to outlive someone and the heads up have to outlive someone and the heads up and so we just thought okay let's let's and so we just thought okay let's let's and so we just thought okay let's let's get intentional and let's look at the get intentional and let's look at the get intentional and let's look at the greatest leader of all time and kind of greatest leader of all time and kind of greatest leader of all time and kind of see what he did in terms of building a see what he did in terms of building a see what he did in terms of building a great team yeah what are you pulling out great team yeah what are you pulling out great team yeah what are you pulling out of kind of the life of Jesus you know of kind of the life of Jesus you know of kind of the life of Jesus you know and how applying that to your church how and how applying that to your church how and how applying that to your church how are you kind of looking at his model you are you kind of looking at his model you are you kind of looking at his model you know of team leadership and using that know of team leadership and using that know of team leadership and using that in your church well he didn't use the

in your church well he didn't use the in your church well he didn't use the volunteer method okay you didn't say volunteer method okay you didn't say volunteer method okay you didn't say like anybody want to run the kids like anybody want to run the kids like anybody want to run the kids ministry uh you know anybody want to ministry uh you know anybody want to ministry uh you know anybody want to hold a baby you know he the Bible hold a baby you know he the Bible hold a baby you know he the Bible actually says when he would he would go actually says when he would he would go actually says when he would he would go from kind of looking across the crowd to from kind of looking across the crowd to from kind of looking across the crowd to pick the twelve that would be with him pick the twelve that would be with him pick the twelve that would be with him the Bible actually says he went away and the Bible actually says he went away and the Bible actually says he went away and he prayed all night long hmm so the he prayed all night long hmm so the he prayed all night long hmm so the first thing that I say and not to over first thing that I say and not to over first thing that I say and not to over spiritualize it but definitely not to spiritualize it but definitely not to spiritualize it but definitely not to minimize it you got to get away and pray minimize it you got to get away and pray minimize it you got to get away and pray mm-hmm I think that there are great mm-hmm I think that there are great mm-hmm I think that there are great leaders in your church that you that leaders in your church that you that leaders in your church that you that God's gonna have to give you eyes to see God's gonna have to give you eyes to see God's gonna have to give you eyes to see who that is and so he went away he who that is and so he went away he who that is and so he went away he prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people that he picked weren't finished products that he picked weren't finished products that he picked weren't finished products they weren't finished products he just they weren't finished products he just they weren't finished products he just felt like God said man if you spend time felt like God said man if you spend time felt like God said man if you spend time with these 12 guys something great is with these 12 guys something great is with these 12 guys something great is gonna happen so he prayed and I would gonna happen so he prayed and I would gonna happen so he prayed and I would say the first thing you gotta do is you say the first thing you gotta do is you say the first thing you gotta do is you gotta get gotta see God the second thing gotta get gotta see God the second thing gotta get gotta see God the second thing he did is he selected okay yep so he he did is he selected okay yep so he he did is he selected okay yep so he didn't he didn't say who wants to be in didn't he didn't say who wants to be in didn't he didn't say who wants to be in my 12 hmm um he he prayed all night then my 12 hmm um he he prayed all night then my 12 hmm um he he prayed all night then he searched over the crowd and he picked he searched over the crowd and he picked he searched over the crowd and he picked right okay and so you've got to identify right okay and so you've got to identify right okay and so you've got to identify those those leaders now how are you those those leaders now how are you those those leaders now how are you getting in the orbit of people to getting in the orbit of people to getting in the orbit of people to actually get out and do that selection actually get out and do that selection actually get out and do that selection because I think we default to the like because I think we default to the like because I think we default to the like hey let's put a form up on a website if hey let's put a form up on a website if hey let's put a form up on a website if you're interested we'll fill it out and you're interested we'll fill it out and you're interested we'll fill it out and then we'll kind of sift through that then we'll kind of sift through that then we'll kind of sift through that group you know in a church your size group you know in a church your size group you know in a church your size it's you know once you get up over a few it's you know once you get up over a few it's you know once you get up over a few hundred people it becomes very difficult hundred people it becomes very difficult hundred people it becomes very difficult to get a sense to how do you know people

to get a sense to how do you know people to get a sense to how do you know people tell me about how you're doing that how tell me about how you're doing that how tell me about how you're doing that how are you selecting people well it's it's are you selecting people well it's it's are you selecting people well it's it's funny the way what we're looking for funny the way what we're looking for funny the way what we're looking for might be a little different then I'm not might be a little different then I'm not might be a little different then I'm not necessarily always looking for the necessarily always looking for the necessarily always looking for the hardest worker in the rim mm-hmm which hardest worker in the rim mm-hmm which hardest worker in the rim mm-hmm which is typically what we end up selecting to is typically what we end up selecting to is typically what we end up selecting to be leaders in our churches that's exotic be leaders in our churches that's exotic be leaders in our churches that's exotic so in our church we say it in this way so in our church we say it in this way so in our church we say it in this way we celebrate hard work but we don't we celebrate hard work but we don't we celebrate hard work but we don't elevate it mmm we elevate gathers and elevate it mmm we elevate gathers and elevate it mmm we elevate gathers and team builders mmm and so when I'm in the team builders mmm and so when I'm in the team builders mmm and so when I'm in the crowd on a Sunday morning people coming crowd on a Sunday morning people coming crowd on a Sunday morning people coming and going in between services I'm just and going in between services I'm just and going in between services I'm just watching for the guy that there is watching for the guy that there is watching for the guy that there is always people standing around yes always people standing around yes always people standing around yes because typically what we do is so i'll because typically what we do is so i'll because typically what we do is so i'll give it to you how we normally do it in give it to you how we normally do it in give it to you how we normally do it in church the guy we go through and there's church the guy we go through and there's church the guy we go through and there's a guy wiping down the window of the cafe a guy wiping down the window of the cafe a guy wiping down the window of the cafe you're like man what a great servant you're like man what a great servant you're like man what a great servant leader he's so passionate but and then leader he's so passionate but and then leader he's so passionate but and then you come back the next week and that you come back the next week and that you come back the next week and that same guys wiping down the window and same guys wiping down the window and same guys wiping down the window and center he's women and you go man you're center he's women and you go man you're center he's women and you go man you're the leader of everything in the cafe not the leader of everything in the cafe not the leader of everything in the cafe not true okay he was super faithful and he true okay he was super faithful and he true okay he was super faithful and he was there but we did we we elevated a was there but we did we we elevated a was there but we did we we elevated a hard worker we didn't elevate a gatherer hard worker we didn't elevate a gatherer hard worker we didn't elevate a gatherer in a team builder oh this is such a good in a team builder oh this is such a good in a team builder oh this is such a good word I want hope the church leaders are word I want hope the church leaders are word I want hope the church leaders are listening listening listening what you're saying I think we do this what you're saying I think we do this what you're saying I think we do this all the time in churches we take people all the time in churches we take people all the time in churches we take people who are really good at doing things and who are really good at doing things and who are really good at doing things and make them leaders and then we beat them make them leaders and then we beat them make them leaders and then we beat them up when we're like stop doing things you up when we're like stop doing things you up when we're like stop doing things you need to be leading and multiplying need to be leading and multiplying need to be leading and multiplying people as opposed to you know the best people as opposed to you know the best people as opposed to you know the best way to find the leaders had a coach once

way to find the leaders had a coach once way to find the leaders had a coach once a mean I live by this all the time the a mean I live by this all the time the a mean I live by this all the time the best way to find leaders is there people best way to find leaders is there people best way to find leaders is there people who already are leading how do you find who already are leading how do you find who already are leading how do you find those people that are out that are that those people that are out that are that those people that are out that are that are gathering folks really despite you are gathering folks really despite you are gathering folks really despite you but they're gathering people around you but they're gathering people around you but they're gathering people around you down themselves yeah very good that's down themselves yeah very good that's down themselves yeah very good that's very good if you're having trouble with very good if you're having trouble with very good if you're having trouble with developing a leadership pipeline um have developing a leadership pipeline um have developing a leadership pipeline um have some people that you're wondering about some people that you're wondering about some people that you're wondering about have some barbecues at their house right have some barbecues at their house right have some barbecues at their house right not the guy that it really doesn't not the guy that it really doesn't not the guy that it really doesn't matter what he does in terms of matter what he does in terms of matter what he does in terms of invitations it really doesn't matter invitations it really doesn't matter invitations it really doesn't matter what hit food he's prepared 50 people what hit food he's prepared 50 people what hit food he's prepared 50 people are going to show up because he's the are going to show up because he's the are going to show up because he's the man right that guy needs to get pulled man right that guy needs to get pulled man right that guy needs to get pulled in and given some place to influence in and given some place to influence in and given some place to influence somewhere because here's the reality somewhere because here's the reality somewhere because here's the reality he's already influencing you're not he's already influencing you're not he's already influencing you're not dictating in any way what that influence dictating in any way what that influence dictating in any way what that influence looks like now do you have any kind of looks like now do you have any kind of looks like now do you have any kind of you know when you're out selecting do you know when you're out selecting do you know when you're out selecting do you have any kind of I don't know what you have any kind of I don't know what you have any kind of I don't know what you'd say kind of guidelines for the you'd say kind of guidelines for the you'd say kind of guidelines for the kinds of people you're trying to select kinds of people you're trying to select kinds of people you're trying to select or each is that just kind of like all or each is that just kind of like all or each is that just kind of like all gut feel all kind of you know the sniff gut feel all kind of you know the sniff gut feel all kind of you know the sniff test I once heard a leader say well I test I once heard a leader say well I test I once heard a leader say well I find leaders by the sniff test I get find leaders by the sniff test I get find leaders by the sniff test I get close and I sniff them and see you know close and I sniff them and see you know close and I sniff them and see you know what's that like what does that look what's that like what does that look what's that like what does that look like for you guys yeah I think it's a like for you guys yeah I think it's a like for you guys yeah I think it's a little bit of both I think there's a little bit of both I think there's a little bit of both I think there's a little sniff testing going on in our little sniff testing going on in our little sniff testing going on in our church we we're looking for some divine church we we're looking for some divine church we we're looking for some divine flow honestly I love Bill Hybels edit flow honestly I love Bill Hybels edit flow honestly I love Bill Hybels edit years ago he looks for several things years ago he looks for several things years ago he looks for several things character um are they just people of character um are they just people of character um are they just people of good character do they fit your culture good character do they fit your culture good character do they fit your culture and really for us we're allowed we laugh and really for us we're allowed we laugh and really for us we're allowed we laugh I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit the culture if you're just meek and mild

the culture if you're just meek and mild the culture if you're just meek and mild and just kind of scared in a room full and just kind of scared in a room full and just kind of scared in a room full of people like you're probably not going of people like you're probably not going of people like you're probably not going to fit in our staff culture really well to fit in our staff culture really well to fit in our staff culture really well it's probably going to get probably it's probably going to get probably it's probably going to get probably going to get run over we're telling going to get run over we're telling going to get run over we're telling jokes we're laughing we're slapping jokes we're laughing we're slapping jokes we're laughing we're slapping everybody on the back um do you have everybody on the back um do you have everybody on the back um do you have some competency mm-hmm and are you some competency mm-hmm and are you some competency mm-hmm and are you called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if you're not if we don't hire you if we you're not if we don't hire you if we you're not if we don't hire you if we don't do anything with you are you still don't do anything with you are you still don't do anything with you are you still gonna try and help right right right gonna try and help right right right gonna try and help right right right right when you find those guys that right when you find those guys that right when you find those guys that you really want to start gravitating you really want to start gravitating you really want to start gravitating towards the highest levels of leadership towards the highest levels of leadership towards the highest levels of leadership in your organization and the way that I in your organization and the way that I in your organization and the way that I tell people I need you to let me treat tell people I need you to let me treat tell people I need you to let me treat you like staff before I can pay you like you like staff before I can pay you like you like staff before I can pay you like one mmm that's good that's very good um one mmm that's good that's very good um one mmm that's good that's very good um and so let me treat you that way let me and so let me treat you that way let me and so let me treat you that way let me hold you to that character standard let hold you to that character standard let hold you to that character standard let me hold you to that call standard behold me hold you to that call standard behold me hold you to that call standard behold you to all those things and then here's you to all those things and then here's you to all those things and then here's what I'm gonna give ask you to do lead what I'm gonna give ask you to do lead what I'm gonna give ask you to do lead so well that if I don't hire you I will so well that if I don't hire you I will so well that if I don't hire you I will lose leadership credibility mmm like lose leadership credibility mmm like lose leadership credibility mmm like like what tie my hands behind my back like what tie my hands behind my back like what tie my hands behind my back bright or Smith like if they say you bright or Smith like if they say you bright or Smith like if they say you know Josh just obviously isn't a good know Josh just obviously isn't a good know Josh just obviously isn't a good leader if he can't recognize that this leader if he can't recognize that this leader if he can't recognize that this guy over here is killing it like when guy over here is killing it like when guy over here is killing it like when you put me in that position you have you put me in that position you have you put me in that position you have grown us to a place where I have to hire grown us to a place where I have to hire grown us to a place where I have to hire you to keep moving forward right right you to keep moving forward right right you to keep moving forward right right very good and then we get to then we very good and then we get to then we very good and then we get to then we puts us in a fun place where we get to puts us in a fun place where we get to puts us in a fun place where we get to actually hire what's happening mmm actually hire what's happening mmm actually hire what's happening mmm rather than just hoping or hiring rather than just hoping or hiring rather than just hoping or hiring potential or it might work out or you potential or it might work out or you potential or it might work out or you know that's nothing so we've prayed

know that's nothing so we've prayed know that's nothing so we've prayed we've out we've done some selection what we've out we've done some selection what we've out we've done some selection what else do we need to be thinking about so else do we need to be thinking about so else do we need to be thinking about so they're really the third thing so II they're really the third thing so II they're really the third thing so II prayed he selected and then he invested prayed he selected and then he invested prayed he selected and then he invested okay what is it that well I think we okay what is it that well I think we okay what is it that well I think we need to understand that they're not a need to understand that they're not a need to understand that they're not a finished they're not a finished work I finished they're not a finished work I finished they're not a finished work I see a lot of pastors that put people in see a lot of pastors that put people in see a lot of pastors that put people in position and then they spend most of position and then they spend most of position and then they spend most of their leadership life actually upset their leadership life actually upset their leadership life actually upset that people aren't getting it it's tran that people aren't getting it it's tran that people aren't getting it it's tran and if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right and if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right and if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right that my job is to do the equipping right that my job is to do the equipping right that my job is to do the equipping right mm-hmm quit God's people for works of mm-hmm quit God's people for works of mm-hmm quit God's people for works of ministry why in the world would I ever ministry why in the world would I ever ministry why in the world would I ever wake up mad that I still have a job it's wake up mad that I still have a job it's wake up mad that I still have a job it's what once they get it all once they what once they get it all once they what once they get it all once they understand everything that we're trying understand everything that we're trying understand everything that we're trying to teach them they don't need me anymore to teach them they don't need me anymore to teach them they don't need me anymore mm-hmm and so so what we've got to come mm-hmm and so so what we've got to come mm-hmm and so so what we've got to come to grips with is the idea that man our to grips with is the idea that man our to grips with is the idea that man our job is to equip that we're okay with it job is to equip that we're okay with it job is to equip that we're okay with it not always being okay right absolutely not always being okay right absolutely not always being okay right absolutely what does that look like for you kind of what does that look like for you kind of what does that look like for you kind of practically how are you equipping let's practically how are you equipping let's practically how are you equipping let's kind of take maybe a new leader we'll kind of take maybe a new leader we'll kind of take maybe a new leader we'll start there so someone who you're you start there so someone who you're you start there so someone who you're you know you've identified them you're like know you've identified them you're like know you've identified them you're like hey this is a person who they're killing hey this is a person who they're killing hey this is a person who they're killing it in their area how do we what are you it in their area how do we what are you it in their area how do we what are you doing to kind of equip and quit them in doing to kind of equip and quit them in doing to kind of equip and quit them in just in them yeah well the first thing just in them yeah well the first thing just in them yeah well the first thing that you have a responsibility to them that you have a responsibility to them that you have a responsibility to them to come up with is the standard okay to come up with is the standard okay to come up with is the standard okay unfortunately I think we get a lot of unfortunately I think we get a lot of unfortunately I think we get a lot of guys that we're bringing in that we say guys that we're bringing in that we say guys that we're bringing in that we say go lead this thing then we stay go lead this thing then we stay go lead this thing then we stay frustrated at them or disappointed in frustrated at them or disappointed in frustrated at them or disappointed in the output but the reality is they are the output but the reality is they are the output but the reality is they are there only ever chasing an opinion right

there only ever chasing an opinion right there only ever chasing an opinion right what you write down a standard when it's what you write down a standard when it's what you write down a standard when it's a written standard that's why the Word a written standard that's why the Word a written standard that's why the Word of God is so important for the Christian of God is so important for the Christian of God is so important for the Christian community we have a written standard mmm community we have a written standard mmm community we have a written standard mmm well you have a written standard you can well you have a written standard you can well you have a written standard you can always point back to the standard mm-hmm always point back to the standard mm-hmm always point back to the standard mm-hmm when you don't have a written standard when you don't have a written standard when you don't have a written standard all you can have a point back to is an all you can have a point back to is an all you can have a point back to is an opinion mm that's good in most cases in opinion mm that's good in most cases in opinion mm that's good in most cases in our churches we have leaders that are our churches we have leaders that are our churches we have leaders that are just chasing down our opinions hmm but just chasing down our opinions hmm but just chasing down our opinions hmm but when you'll write down a clearly when you'll write down a clearly when you'll write down a clearly communicate this is how you greet in communicate this is how you greet in communicate this is how you greet in this church now it can be we say clearly this church now it can be we say clearly this church now it can be we say clearly written standard but I I would maybe written standard but I I would maybe written standard but I I would maybe expand that to say just ain't clearly expand that to say just ain't clearly expand that to say just ain't clearly communicated we live in the 21st century communicated we live in the 21st century communicated we live in the 21st century let's do some videos mmm take a let's do some videos mmm take a let's do some videos mmm take a two-minute video of what it means to two-minute video of what it means to two-minute video of what it means to actually greet at your door mm-hmm put actually greet at your door mm-hmm put actually greet at your door mm-hmm put it on a YouTube channel that's just for it on a YouTube channel that's just for it on a YouTube channel that's just for your team so that people can go see okay your team so that people can go see okay your team so that people can go see okay that's the standard mm-hmm most of the that's the standard mm-hmm most of the that's the standard mm-hmm most of the time we don't give that we just stay time we don't give that we just stay time we don't give that we just stay frustrated that they're not where they frustrated that they're not where they frustrated that they're not where they are so right you you've got to know the are so right you you've got to know the are so right you you've got to know the standard first it starts with you and so standard first it starts with you and so standard first it starts with you and so if you don't have it written down your if you don't have it written down your if you don't have it written down your prop honestly it'sit's almost dangerous prop honestly it'sit's almost dangerous prop honestly it'sit's almost dangerous and a little negligent to be building and a little negligent to be building and a little negligent to be building teams right because you're just going to teams right because you're just going to teams right because you're just going to frustrate yourself in them mmm that's frustrate yourself in them mmm that's frustrate yourself in them mmm that's very good and and are you doing that very good and and are you doing that very good and and are you doing that across the board kind of for all your across the board kind of for all your across the board kind of for all your roles you're trying to find its you know roles you're trying to find its you know roles you're trying to find its you know basically what are the areas that we're basically what are the areas that we're basically what are the areas that we're not writing them down and we're not not writing them down and we're not not writing them down and we're not communicating it clearly and you know communicating it clearly and you know communicating it clearly and you know making that happen yeah absolutely i making that happen yeah absolutely i making that happen yeah absolutely i mean we have I was in the military in so

mean we have I was in the military in so mean we have I was in the military in so they call them SOP standard operating they call them SOP standard operating they call them SOP standard operating procedures so we so we have a standard procedures so we so we have a standard procedures so we so we have a standard operating procedure for every role in operating procedure for every role in operating procedure for every role in the church and and when that new person the church and and when that new person the church and and when that new person is asked to be a part of that thing what is asked to be a part of that thing what is asked to be a part of that thing what sitting down with first is this is what sitting down with first is this is what sitting down with first is this is what it looks like right now don't miss this it looks like right now don't miss this it looks like right now don't miss this church leaders that are listening in a church leaders that are listening in a church leaders that are listening in a standard operating standard operating standard operating procedures allows you to scale your procedures allows you to scale your procedures allows you to scale your leadership by taking the time to wrestle leadership by taking the time to wrestle leadership by taking the time to wrestle through with your leaders what is the through with your leaders what is the through with your leaders what is the normal way that things should happen at normal way that things should happen at normal way that things should happen at your church that allows you your your church that allows you your your church that allows you your influence to ripple out and continue influence to ripple out and continue influence to ripple out and continue really for you to lead when you're not really for you to lead when you're not really for you to lead when you're not in the room that's what it's all about in the room that's what it's all about in the room that's what it's all about it so allow you to continue to it so allow you to continue to it so allow you to continue to articulate this is what we're looking articulate this is what we're looking articulate this is what we're looking for very cool now what happens if for very cool now what happens if for very cool now what happens if somebody you know it just doesn't start somebody you know it just doesn't start somebody you know it just doesn't start to not work out there's a leader who to not work out there's a leader who to not work out there's a leader who it's you know maybe things aren't it's you know maybe things aren't it's you know maybe things aren't working right I'm sure it always works working right I'm sure it always works working right I'm sure it always works right at your church so you know maybe right at your church so you know maybe right at your church so you know maybe what would you theoretically do if it what would you theoretically do if it what would you theoretically do if it didn't work out yeah well so didn't work out yeah well so didn't work out yeah well so hypothetically at other peoples churches hypothetically at other peoples churches hypothetically at other peoples churches this is probably exactly what it would this is probably exactly what it would this is probably exactly what it would look like right right um that I think we look like right right um that I think we look like right right um that I think we I think a great leader should always I think a great leader should always I think a great leader should always default to the reason that it didn't default to the reason that it didn't default to the reason that it didn't happen right or they didn't execute happen right or they didn't execute happen right or they didn't execute isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go give up uh I start and we train our our give up uh I start and we train our our give up uh I start and we train our our staff to assume that the reason that staff to assume that the reason that staff to assume that the reason that they aren't doing it right is they they aren't doing it right is they they aren't doing it right is they haven't heard it enough mmm you know we haven't heard it enough mmm you know we haven't heard it enough mmm you know we tend to forget in the church world that

tend to forget in the church world that tend to forget in the church world that we're in this seven days a week you you we're in this seven days a week you you we're in this seven days a week you you woke up this morning thinking about woke up this morning thinking about woke up this morning thinking about church and how to lead and Bill they church and how to lead and Bill they church and how to lead and Bill they didn't they just trying to get to work didn't they just trying to get to work didn't they just trying to get to work on time right um they're thinking about on time right um they're thinking about on time right um they're thinking about man it's Friday night we're probably man it's Friday night we're probably man it's Friday night we're probably going to go catch a movie right i mean going to go catch a movie right i mean going to go catch a movie right i mean there's Dave and then come Sunday there's Dave and then come Sunday there's Dave and then come Sunday morning about nine in the morning 15 morning about nine in the morning 15 morning about nine in the morning 15 minutes before their scheduled to be minutes before their scheduled to be minutes before their scheduled to be there they start thinking about you there they start thinking about you there they start thinking about you again and so we assume in they just again and so we assume in they just again and so we assume in they just haven't heard it enough and so go so we haven't heard it enough and so go so we haven't heard it enough and so go so we say you gotta know the standard but then say you gotta know the standard but then say you gotta know the standard but then the next thing a great leader is gonna the next thing a great leader is gonna the next thing a great leader is gonna have to do is communicate that standard have to do is communicate that standard have to do is communicate that standard mm-hmm and we say you've communicated mm-hmm and we say you've communicated mm-hmm and we say you've communicated enough when it starts to black make you enough when it starts to black make you enough when it starts to black make you sick at your stomach when you're saying sick at your stomach when you're saying sick at your stomach when you're saying it again right right right cause like I it again right right right cause like I it again right right right cause like I can't even I can't even am at like how can't even I can't even am at like how can't even I can't even am at like how are you not getting this right but then are you not getting this right but then are you not getting this right but then the third thing is you got to enforce the third thing is you got to enforce the third thing is you got to enforce that standard mm-hmm you can't you've that standard mm-hmm you can't you've that standard mm-hmm you can't you've got to be willing to have the difficult got to be willing to have the difficult got to be willing to have the difficult conversations mm-hmm I would say as conversations mm-hmm I would say as conversations mm-hmm I would say as pastors ninety-five percent of what we pastors ninety-five percent of what we pastors ninety-five percent of what we do a risen a reasonably educated high do a risen a reasonably educated high do a risen a reasonably educated high school student can do it school student can do it school student can do it writes true right I don't think of a writes true right I don't think of a writes true right I don't think of a most of what we do most anybody but you most of what we do most anybody but you most of what we do most anybody but you and I have a job for the five percent and I have a job for the five percent and I have a job for the five percent mm-hmm for the five percent of mm-hmm for the five percent of mm-hmm for the five percent of conversations that nobody wants to have conversations that nobody wants to have conversations that nobody wants to have right right and so we've got to be right right and so we've got to be right right and so we've got to be willing to say so to use another John willing to say so to use another John willing to say so to use another John Maxwell he said everybody in your Maxwell he said everybody in your Maxwell he said everybody in your organization needs to be trained so we organization needs to be trained so we organization needs to be trained so we assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm they need to be transferred there just they need to be transferred there just they need to be transferred there just on the wrong seat of the bus and that's on the wrong seat of the bus and that's on the wrong seat of the bus and that's probably not their fault it's yours

probably not their fault it's yours probably not their fault it's yours because you put you put up on a window because you put you put up on a window because you put you put up on a window you put a window washer okay into the you put a window washer okay into the you put a window washer okay into the all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they do seem to be transferred into a better do seem to be transferred into a better do seem to be transferred into a better seat or they need to you need to let seat or they need to you need to let seat or they need to you need to let them go right now the let them go we them go right now the let them go we them go right now the let them go we just assume at the end of the day we just assume at the end of the day we just assume at the end of the day we never we never let somebody go because never we never let somebody go because never we never let somebody go because they're like because of output mmm it's they're like because of output mmm it's they're like because of output mmm it's typically back on that end of its typically back on that end of its typically back on that end of its character write or call yeah definitely character write or call yeah definitely character write or call yeah definitely very cool I another way I've heard it very cool I another way I've heard it very cool I another way I've heard it articulated around that kind of ensuring articulated around that kind of ensuring articulated around that kind of ensuring people understand and know that the people understand and know that the people understand and know that the standard is you know that you're standard is you know that you're standard is you know that you're starting to communicate it enough when starting to communicate it enough when starting to communicate it enough when people start making fun of it you know people start making fun of it you know people start making fun of it you know when they're like ah we know this is how when they're like ah we know this is how when they're like ah we know this is how we're supposed to stand or this is what we're supposed to stand or this is what we're supposed to stand or this is what a good guest experience is like or this a good guest experience is like or this a good guest experience is like or this is you know oh you know are you doing is you know oh you know are you doing is you know oh you know are you doing the right thing as a worship leader you the right thing as a worship leader you the right thing as a worship leader you know today but if that's not happening know today but if that's not happening know today but if that's not happening it you're probably not communicating it it you're probably not communicating it it you're probably not communicating it enough yeah and I i think i think we enough yeah and I i think i think we enough yeah and I i think i think we typically we typically shy away from typically we typically shy away from typically we typically shy away from these difficult conversations especially these difficult conversations especially these difficult conversations especially when we're dealing with volunteers yes when we're dealing with volunteers yes when we're dealing with volunteers yes and I would just beg pastors to stop and I would just beg pastors to stop and I would just beg pastors to stop doing that because here's here and doing that because here's here and doing that because here's here and here's why we're doing it mm-hmm years here's why we're doing it mm-hmm years here's why we're doing it mm-hmm years ago we got this horrible thought process ago we got this horrible thought process ago we got this horrible thought process in the American church that said that in the American church that said that in the American church that said that discipleship is learning a bunch of discipleship is learning a bunch of discipleship is learning a bunch of Bible verses and going to Sunday School Bible verses and going to Sunday School Bible verses and going to Sunday School every week mmm and but discipleship every week mmm and but discipleship every week mmm and but discipleship isn't memorizing a bunch of Bible verses isn't memorizing a bunch of Bible verses isn't memorizing a bunch of Bible verses the devil of Hell quoted scripture to the devil of Hell quoted scripture to the devil of Hell quoted scripture to Jesus um yes so it's it's the

Jesus um yes so it's it's the Jesus um yes so it's it's the application of the information and so so application of the information and so so application of the information and so so when you ask them when you insist that when you ask them when you insist that when you ask them when you insist that they're there on time mm-hmm when you they're there on time mm-hmm when you they're there on time mm-hmm when you insist that they dress a certain way insist that they dress a certain way insist that they dress a certain way when you insist that they when you insist that they when you insist that they treat people with a certain manner of treat people with a certain manner of treat people with a certain manner of when you insist that they submit to a when you insist that they submit to a when you insist that they submit to a healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that they honor when you all those things they honor when you all those things they honor when you all those things that's discipleship so truth it's not that's discipleship so truth it's not that's discipleship so truth it's not getting them to go to your Sunday school getting them to go to your Sunday school getting them to go to your Sunday school or it's not going to go to your your or it's not going to go to your your or it's not going to go to your your small group even on a Wednesday night small group even on a Wednesday night small group even on a Wednesday night disciples yep it's when you give them disciples yep it's when you give them disciples yep it's when you give them tools to be better lead better and have tools to be better lead better and have tools to be better lead better and have more influence and they do it yes and more influence and they do it yes and more influence and they do it yes and then when they don't do it they're then when they don't do it they're then when they don't do it they're mature enough to have the healthy mature enough to have the healthy mature enough to have the healthy conversation to dial it in so we never conversation to dial it in so we never conversation to dial it in so we never make apologies for having high make apologies for having high make apologies for having high expectations and we never even we don't expectations and we never even we don't expectations and we never even we don't even think of it as like a volunteer or even think of it as like a volunteer or even think of it as like a volunteer or a stat it's it's we're all being a stat it's it's we're all being a stat it's it's we're all being discipled mm-hmm so we're all readily discipled mm-hmm so we're all readily discipled mm-hmm so we're all readily stepping into those standards because we stepping into those standards because we stepping into those standards because we need to get better every day man this is need to get better every day man this is need to get better every day man this is fantastic this has been such a great fantastic this has been such a great fantastic this has been such a great great conversation today I'm sure it's great conversation today I'm sure it's great conversation today I'm sure it's been challenging for folks that have been challenging for folks that have been challenging for folks that have been listening in is there anything else been listening in is there anything else been listening in is there anything else you want to share just before we turn you want to share just before we turn you want to share just before we turn the corner into the next part of our the corner into the next part of our the corner into the next part of our episode hey even Jesus had a guy that episode hey even Jesus had a guy that episode hey even Jesus had a guy that didn't work out hmm and so it's okay yes didn't work out hmm and so it's okay yes didn't work out hmm and so it's okay yes it's Oh have permission to put people in it's Oh have permission to put people in it's Oh have permission to put people in place and it not work out right it's place and it not work out right it's place and it not work out right it's okay it doesn't make you a bad leader okay it doesn't make you a bad leader okay it doesn't make you a bad leader and here's the other thing it doesn't and here's the other thing it doesn't and here's the other thing it doesn't make them a bad person right there are

make them a bad person right there are make them a bad person right there are just some people that don't need to be just some people that don't need to be just some people that don't need to be on your particular bus right you be okay on your particular bus right you be okay on your particular bus right you be okay with that most of us teach the body of with that most of us teach the body of with that most of us teach the body of Christ but we just don't believe it Christ but we just don't believe it Christ but we just don't believe it right and so we think when somebody right and so we think when somebody right and so we think when somebody leaves our body there must be something leaves our body there must be something leaves our body there must be something wrong with them mmm they're not leaving wrong with them mmm they're not leaving wrong with them mmm they're not leaving our body they're leaving our part of the our body they're leaving our part of the our body they're leaving our part of the overall body of Christ to hopefully get overall body of Christ to hopefully get overall body of Christ to hopefully get in the part of the body that they were in the part of the body that they were in the part of the body that they were created for yes that's a good word i created for yes that's a good word i created for yes that's a good word i think you know sometimes we get so much think you know sometimes we get so much think you know sometimes we get so much we put so much pressure on ourselves and we put so much pressure on ourselves and we put so much pressure on ourselves and on our people and we forget that you on our people and we forget that you on our people and we forget that you know and by trying to avoid getting team know and by trying to avoid getting team know and by trying to avoid getting team members like that word don't take the members like that word don't take the members like that word don't take the risks and we don't develop people and we risks and we don't develop people and we risks and we don't develop people and we don't because we're like we're we're don't because we're like we're we're don't because we're like we're we're looking for fully baked leaders who have looking for fully baked leaders who have looking for fully baked leaders who have it all together we're that's just not it all together we're that's just not it all together we're that's just not the case right Jesus took a risk on on the case right Jesus took a risk on on the case right Jesus took a risk on on like you're saying one guy didn't work like you're saying one guy didn't work like you're saying one guy didn't work out that but that's just a part of it out that but that's just a part of it out that but that's just a part of it that's a part of the game if the flip that's a part of the game if the flip that's a part of the game if the flip side of it is if we if we are only side of it is if we if we are only side of it is if we if we are only looking looking looking for fully baked leaders we're never for fully baked leaders we're never for fully baked leaders we're never going to develop people we're never going to develop people we're never going to develop people we're never going to see some advances for sure I going to see some advances for sure I going to see some advances for sure I think it's all the good word and the think it's all the good word and the think it's all the good word and the reality is they didn't become great reality is they didn't become great reality is they didn't become great leaders until he was gone yes oh that's leaders until he was gone yes oh that's leaders until he was gone yes oh that's good so he did such a good job of good so he did such a good job of good so he did such a good job of communicating the standard that when he communicating the standard that when he communicating the standard that when he left they were able to step into all left they were able to step into all left they were able to step into all that he had for them this is the that he had for them this is the that he had for them this is the uncinate podcast stuff you wish they uncinate podcast stuff you wish they uncinate podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to taught in seminary well we're going to taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning round that part jump into the lightning round that part jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask the similar of the episode where we ask the similar of the episode where we ask the similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we've got Josh from Turning show today we've got Josh from Turning show today we've got Josh from Turning Point Church just a great conversation Point Church just a great conversation Point Church just a great conversation today I've been so thankful for Josh today I've been so thankful for Josh today I've been so thankful for Josh what's an online resource you're using what's an online resource you're using what's an online resource you're using these days that's kind of helping you in

these days that's kind of helping you in these days that's kind of helping you in your ministry man I don't know if you've your ministry man I don't know if you've your ministry man I don't know if you've heard of it yet but it's called slack heard of it yet but it's called slack heard of it yet but it's called slack yeah and created tells you it's just yeah and created tells you it's just yeah and created tells you it's just great it's it's basically in our staff great it's it's basically in our staff great it's it's basically in our staff now has replaced email and text now has replaced email and text now has replaced email and text messaging mm for communication through messaging mm for communication through messaging mm for communication through the whole staff it's it's a few have it the whole staff it's it's a few have it the whole staff it's it's a few have it if you haven't spent any time on it that if you haven't spent any time on it that if you haven't spent any time on it that the only way it's going to work if you the only way it's going to work if you the only way it's going to work if you would ever want to open it up and try to would ever want to open it up and try to would ever want to open it up and try to implement it for anybody that's implement it for anybody that's implement it for anybody that's listening the only way it's going to listening the only way it's going to listening the only way it's going to work is you have to get a hundred work is you have to get a hundred work is you have to get a hundred percent by M yes because if they're if percent by M yes because if they're if percent by M yes because if they're if you're using slack but then they're you're using slack but then they're you're using slack but then they're still texting you questions and then still texting you questions and then still texting you questions and then they're still emailing you some stuff they're still emailing you some stuff they're still emailing you some stuff it's going to become very frustrating it's going to become very frustrating it's going to become very frustrating mm-hmm but we just said okay this is mm-hmm but we just said okay this is mm-hmm but we just said okay this is what we're going to we want a one-stop what we're going to we want a one-stop what we're going to we want a one-stop shop that's going to handle all of our shop that's going to handle all of our shop that's going to handle all of our communication emails too slow text communication emails too slow text communication emails too slow text message it's too messy we can't track it message it's too messy we can't track it message it's too messy we can't track it let's put it all into one animal um so I let's put it all into one animal um so I let's put it all into one animal um so I end up Mike my staff would text me end up Mike my staff would text me end up Mike my staff would text me questions and I just wouldn't respond questions and I just wouldn't respond questions and I just wouldn't respond nice i'm just not going to respond right nice i'm just not going to respond right nice i'm just not going to respond right but once you slack it to me i'll respond but once you slack it to me i'll respond but once you slack it to me i'll respond and yeah just took us a couple weeks and yeah just took us a couple weeks and yeah just took us a couple weeks once we got the buy-in that's where all once we got the buy-in that's where all once we got the buy-in that's where all communications living in it so fast yeah communications living in it so fast yeah communications living in it so fast yeah fantastic if you haven't if you have a fantastic if you haven't if you have a fantastic if you haven't if you have a team of you know even two or three team of you know even two or three team of you know even two or three people slack is a great tool you people slack is a great tool you people slack is a great tool you definitely need to check that out what's definitely need to check that out what's definitely need to check that out what's a book you've read in the last six a book you've read in the last six a book you've read in the last six months or so that you know is really months or so that you know is really months or so that you know is really shaping your thinking and your ministry shaping your thinking and your ministry shaping your thinking and your ministry was dr. Samuel chand he said it was a was dr. Samuel chand he said it was a was dr. Samuel chand he said it was a book called cracking your church's book called cracking your church's book called cracking your church's culture code and just a very I think it culture code and just a very I think it culture code and just a very I think it will give you some very healthy labels

will give you some very healthy labels will give you some very healthy labels in terms of identifying your church's in terms of identifying your church's in terms of identifying your church's culture and then help you pick based on culture and then help you pick based on culture and then help you pick based on those those those where you are and then I think practical where you are and then I think practical where you are and then I think practical steps to help improve that a little bit steps to help improve that a little bit steps to help improve that a little bit verical we're probably none of us are verical we're probably none of us are verical we're probably none of us are doing as good as we think we are it's doing as good as we think we are it's doing as good as we think we are it's very true so fridge that's a great book very true so fridge that's a great book very true so fridge that's a great book what's another ministry you're looking what's another ministry you're looking what's another ministry you're looking to that inspires you the the it would be to that inspires you the the it would be to that inspires you the the it would be the association of related churches or the association of related churches or the association of related churches or mark mm-hmm an organization that I get mark mm-hmm an organization that I get mark mm-hmm an organization that I get to be a part of that actually helps to be a part of that actually helps to be a part of that actually helps start our church so you're looking to start our church so you're looking to start our church so you're looking to ever plant a church this organization I ever plant a church this organization I ever plant a church this organization I think is just one of the best and that's think is just one of the best and that's think is just one of the best and that's and they get behind you the church and they get behind you the church and they get behind you the church planting is one of the hardest things planting is one of the hardest things planting is one of the hardest things you can do and it's one of the most you can do and it's one of the most you can do and it's one of the most failed endeavors of any business but ark failed endeavors of any business but ark failed endeavors of any business but ark has a ninety-three percent success rate has a ninety-three percent success rate has a ninety-three percent success rate after the five-year mark the church's no after the five-year mark the church's no after the five-year mark the church's no healthy viable growing than well so that healthy viable growing than well so that healthy viable growing than well so that an organization called growth which it an organization called growth which it an organization called growth which it if you've all if you're already going if you've all if you're already going if you've all if you're already going mm-hmm it's a church and just want to mm-hmm it's a church and just want to mm-hmm it's a church and just want to put in systems and structures and put in systems and structures and put in systems and structures and strategies to help you break through strategies to help you break through strategies to help you break through different growth barriers mm-hmm it's uh different growth barriers mm-hmm it's uh different growth barriers mm-hmm it's uh it's grow leader calm and and it's it's grow leader calm and and it's it's grow leader calm and and it's pastor chris hodges at church of the pastor chris hodges at church of the pastor chris hodges at church of the highlands it's something they started highlands it's something they started highlands it's something they started they're trying to get their try his his they're trying to get their try his his they're trying to get their try his his vision was to help a thousand churches vision was to help a thousand churches vision was to help a thousand churches break a thousand that's great I've just break a thousand that's great I've just break a thousand that's great I've just taking these principles and working them taking these principles and working them taking these principles and working them in your in your church and it's it's in your in your church and it's it's in your in your church and it's it's pretty amazing very cool if you could pretty amazing very cool if you could pretty amazing very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive get 15 minutes with any leader alive get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get that today who would you want to get that today who would you want to get that with and why it's just my pastor yeah with and why it's just my pastor yeah with and why it's just my pastor yeah Pastor Chris Hodges he's just one of the

Pastor Chris Hodges he's just one of the Pastor Chris Hodges he's just one of the great leaders in the local church in the great leaders in the local church in the great leaders in the local church in the world today he leads at such a high world today he leads at such a high world today he leads at such a high level and with such with such amazing level and with such with such amazing level and with such with such amazing intentionality that really everything intentionality that really everything intentionality that really everything that I understand in terms of and that I understand in terms of and that I understand in terms of and there's very little that I've even said there's very little that I've even said there's very little that I've even said today that wasn't directly or indirectly today that wasn't directly or indirectly today that wasn't directly or indirectly influenced by him as a leader and so influenced by him as a leader and so influenced by him as a leader and so just everything from how he leads his just everything from how he leads his just everything from how he leads his kids to how he manages a 15 year old kids to how he manages a 15 year old kids to how he manages a 15 year old church of 45,000 people yeah um he just church of 45,000 people yeah um he just church of 45,000 people yeah um he just he's just one of the great leaders in he's just one of the great leaders in he's just one of the great leaders in the world today fantastic well I'm sure the world today fantastic well I'm sure the world today fantastic well I'm sure leading at the church you know it's a leading at the church you know it's a leading at the church you know it's a lot of work and when you're looking to lot of work and when you're looking to lot of work and when you're looking to just kind of kick back relax you know just kind of kick back relax you know just kind of kick back relax you know have a little personal time what do you have a little personal time what do you have a little personal time what do you do for fun so I got to play some college do for fun so I got to play some college do for fun so I got to play some college football when football when football when when everything was when my body looked when everything was when my body looked when everything was when my body looked incredibly different and everything incredibly different and everything incredibly different and everything wasn't sword and hurting and uh and so I wasn't sword and hurting and uh and so I wasn't sword and hurting and uh and so I like anything though where I can compete like anything though where I can compete like anything though where I can compete yeah even still so you know marathons yeah even still so you know marathons yeah even still so you know marathons triathlons done done some Ironman triathlons done done some Ironman triathlons done done some Ironman triathlon so it's a I like that kind of triathlon so it's a I like that kind of triathlon so it's a I like that kind of thing very cool well Josh I appreciate thing very cool well Josh I appreciate thing very cool well Josh I appreciate you being on the show today if people you being on the show today if people you being on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or with want to get in touch with you or with want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that well our the church how can they do that well our the church how can they do that well our the website is turning point see in as the website is turning point see in as the website is turning point see in as in church network turning points en calm in church network turning points en calm in church network turning points en calm and our contact info is on there but and our contact info is on there but and our contact info is on there but right or you can catch me at twitter right or you can catch me at twitter right or you can catch me at twitter which is just Joshua underscore money ma which is just Joshua underscore money ma which is just Joshua underscore money ma you in ey and you can hit me up on you in ey and you can hit me up on you in ey and you can hit me up on Twitter and will we can we can chat that

Twitter and will we can we can chat that Twitter and will we can we can chat that way nice Josh I really appreciate be on way nice Josh I really appreciate be on way nice Josh I really appreciate be on the show today have a great weekend man the show today have a great weekend man the show today have a great weekend man it was a blessing Bless You Man thank it was a blessing Bless You Man thank it was a blessing Bless You Man thank you so much thank you thank you for you so much thank you thank you for you so much thank you thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon birch or through email rich at unsummon airy calm don't forget to check out the airy calm don't forget to check out the airy calm don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset show notes for this episode at unset show notes for this episode at unset maneri com it includes links to what we maneri com it includes links to what we maneri com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary seminary seminary design pickle is a big supporter of design pickle is a big supporter of design pickle is a big supporter of everything on seminary if you haven't everything on seminary if you haven't everything on seminary if you haven't heard they are a flat-rate unlimited use heard they are a flat-rate unlimited use heard they are a flat-rate unlimited use graphic design service helping churches graphic design service helping churches graphic design service helping churches across the nation we're a proud client across the nation we're a proud client across the nation we're a proud client of theirs and love how they help us make of theirs and love how they help us make of theirs and love how they help us make social media graphics and those social media graphics and those social media graphics and those downloadable PDF article summaries that downloadable PDF article summaries that downloadable PDF article summaries that we've been sending out even if you have we've been sending out even if you have we've been sending out even if you have a designer you need to check them out to a designer you need to check them out to a designer you need to check them out to learn more visit design pickle com learn more visit design pickle com learn more visit design pickle com Ford's last churches on that same page Ford's last churches on that same page Ford's last churches on that same page you can watch a totally free 30-minute you can watch a totally free 30-minute you can watch a totally free 30-minute video of me and the founder of design video of me and the founder of design video of me and the founder of design pickle talking about modern church pickle talking about modern church pickle talking about modern church marketing and of course pickles welcome marketing and of course pickles welcome marketing and of course pickles welcome to the uncinate podcast are you looking

to the uncinate podcast are you looking to the uncinate podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive for practical ministry help to drive for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a your ministry further faster have a your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry sinking feeling that your ministry sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey this week's on seminary podcast well hey everybody welcome to the podcast my name everybody welcome to the podcast my name everybody welcome to the podcast my name is rich the host around these parts is rich the host around these parts is rich the host around these parts listen we're so glad that you've decided listen we're so glad that you've decided listen we're so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today we do to spend some time with us today we do to spend some time with us today we do these podcasts work because because these podcasts work because because these podcasts work because because we're hoping they'll encourage you but we're hoping they'll encourage you but we're hoping they'll encourage you but also challenge you and I think today's also challenge you and I think today's also challenge you and I think today's podcast is really going to do that we've podcast is really going to do that we've podcast is really going to do that we've got Josh money from Turning Point Church got Josh money from Turning Point Church got Josh money from Turning Point Church so glad to have you Josh welcome to the so glad to have you Josh welcome to the so glad to have you Josh welcome to the show man thank you so much what an honor show man thank you so much what an honor show man thank you so much what an honor this is going to be great for folks that this is going to be great for folks that this is going to be great for folks that don't know turning point church is a don't know turning point church is a don't know turning point church is a fantastic church if you don't know them fantastic church if you don't know them fantastic church if you don't know them you really should lean in and get to you really should lean in and get to you really should lean in and get to know them in Lexington Kentucky Josh why know them in Lexington Kentucky Josh why know them in Lexington Kentucky Josh why don't you tell us a little bit about don't you tell us a little bit about don't you tell us a little bit about your church give us a kind of a flavor your church give us a kind of a flavor your church give us a kind of a flavor of turning point yo I would say when we of turning point yo I would say when we of turning point yo I would say when we when we started the church we said you when we started the church we said you when we started the church we said you know Hillsong Church was going to be know Hillsong Church was going to be know Hillsong Church was going to be known for its music we got we got known for its music we got we got known for its music we got we got churches like Healing Place church in churches like Healing Place church in churches like Healing Place church in Baton Rouge that's going to be known for Baton Rouge that's going to be known for Baton Rouge that's going to be known for their missions and outreach and and I their missions and outreach and and I their missions and outreach and and I just said man let's let this house be just said man let's let this house be just said man let's let this house be known for the restoration of the family known for the restoration of the family known for the restoration of the family and so very cool we just it's a real and so very cool we just it's a real and so very cool we just it's a real it's a real heartbeat of ours and it's a real heartbeat of ours and it's a real heartbeat of ours and something that we spent a lot of time something that we spent a lot of time something that we spent a lot of time talking about and focusing on him but talking about and focusing on him but talking about and focusing on him but the church I would just up the way that the church I would just up the way that the church I would just up the way that I would describe what a weekend would be I would describe what a weekend would be I would describe what a weekend would be like with us is I want it to be like like with us is I want it to be like like with us is I want it to be like fresh air breathed into your lungs mmm fresh air breathed into your lungs mmm fresh air breathed into your lungs mmm and every Sunday when you walk out I and every Sunday when you walk out I and every Sunday when you walk out I wanted to be like we took something off wanted to be like we took something off wanted to be like we took something off you not put something on you very cool you not put something on you very cool you not put something on you very cool and no that's very cool when you talk

and no that's very cool when you talk and no that's very cool when you talk about restoration of the family what is about restoration of the family what is about restoration of the family what is that that that like for you how does that kind of work like for you how does that kind of work like for you how does that kind of work itself out as a practical kind of focus itself out as a practical kind of focus itself out as a practical kind of focus for your church yeah well the the focus for your church yeah well the the focus for your church yeah well the the focus of our group life and we're a very of our group life and we're a very of our group life and we're a very groups heavy church where in fact we groups heavy church where in fact we groups heavy church where in fact we would say it in this way we're we're a would say it in this way we're we're a would say it in this way we're we're a church of groups not with groups right church of groups not with groups right church of groups not with groups right very calm and so we're very groups heavy very calm and so we're very groups heavy very calm and so we're very groups heavy and so we focus heavily on married child and so we focus heavily on married child and so we focus heavily on married child raising young marrieds I mean a blended raising young marrieds I mean a blended raising young marrieds I mean a blended family of all the we really focus on family of all the we really focus on family of all the we really focus on that but then marriage events and that but then marriage events and that but then marriage events and weekends are really the only kind of weekends are really the only kind of weekends are really the only kind of extra thing we ever do right and but we extra thing we ever do right and but we extra thing we ever do right and but we don't do events just for a vent sake we don't do events just for a vent sake we don't do events just for a vent sake we only ever do events to try to get more only ever do events to try to get more only ever do events to try to get more people in our church into marriage people in our church into marriage people in our church into marriage groups mm-hmm so we just really trying groups mm-hmm so we just really trying groups mm-hmm so we just really trying to drive that so and then the byproduct to drive that so and then the byproduct to drive that so and then the byproduct is we've had several families that were is we've had several families that were is we've had several families that were like legally divorced like paper signed like legally divorced like paper signed like legally divorced like paper signed right on they paid the bills done it's right on they paid the bills done it's right on they paid the bills done it's over with right that we have remarried over with right that we have remarried over with right that we have remarried wow that's incredible yeah so it's just wow that's incredible yeah so it's just wow that's incredible yeah so it's just it's been really neat to watch God just it's been really neat to watch God just it's been really neat to watch God just I mean just fully restoring families I mean just fully restoring families I mean just fully restoring families from affairs and just I mean you name it from affairs and just I mean you name it from affairs and just I mean you name it right and he's just he's bringing it right and he's just he's bringing it right and he's just he's bringing it back together and it's just because it's back together and it's just because it's back together and it's just because it's just up you know I came from a mess of a just up you know I came from a mess of a just up you know I came from a mess of a family mm-hmm and so we just said man I family mm-hmm and so we just said man I family mm-hmm and so we just said man I think God can pour life back into that think God can pour life back into that think God can pour life back into that bear in place that thing the devil bear in place that thing the devil bear in place that thing the devil trying to take from me it's funny I mean trying to take from me it's funny I mean trying to take from me it's funny I mean every time I stand up in front of a every time I stand up in front of a every time I stand up in front of a couple that had been ripped apart that

couple that had been ripped apart that couple that had been ripped apart that we're putting back together it's just we're putting back together it's just we're putting back together it's just like God says I didn't forget about you like God says I didn't forget about you like God says I didn't forget about you and where you came from I'm redeeming and where you came from I'm redeeming and where you came from I'm redeeming that time and it's just a really it's that time and it's just a really it's that time and it's just a really it's just a sweet reminder that that he just a sweet reminder that that he just a sweet reminder that that he brings us through something so he so brings us through something so he so brings us through something so he so that we can bring other people through that we can bring other people through that we can bring other people through something oh very cool hey man that's something oh very cool hey man that's something oh very cool hey man that's great that's very cool well you know if great that's very cool well you know if great that's very cool well you know if people kind of resonate around your people kind of resonate around your people kind of resonate around your church a little bit they start to see church a little bit they start to see church a little bit they start to see that it's not really just a one-man show that it's not really just a one-man show that it's not really just a one-man show there's a lot going on there's a lot of there's a lot going on there's a lot of there's a lot going on there's a lot of teams a lot of kind of groups of people teams a lot of kind of groups of people teams a lot of kind of groups of people that are our lead in is that it's a fair that are our lead in is that it's a fair that are our lead in is that it's a fair assessment that's kind of what I see assessment that's kind of what I see assessment that's kind of what I see from the outside but is that what you're from the outside but is that what you're from the outside but is that what you're is that the way you see it that's very is that the way you see it that's very is that the way you see it that's very much the hope I mean I I have been much the hope I mean I I have been much the hope I mean I I have been constantly working since the day we constantly working since the day we constantly working since the day we started the church to work myself out of started the church to work myself out of started the church to work myself out of a job a job a job very cool so how do you do that let's very cool so how do you do that let's very cool so how do you do that let's let's kind of dig into the team you know let's kind of dig into the team you know let's kind of dig into the team you know I think a team everybody that listened I think a team everybody that listened I think a team everybody that listened this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah this podcast probably says yeah oh yeah yeah I can't do it all myself I know yeah I can't do it all myself I know yeah I can't do it all myself I know that I know that I know that but how do that I know that I know that but how do that I know that I know that but how do we actually build teams what it was what we actually build teams what it was what we actually build teams what it was what does that actually look like what are does that actually look like what are does that actually look like what are some handles we can give church leaders some handles we can give church leaders some handles we can give church leaders today to be thinking about team-based today to be thinking about team-based today to be thinking about team-based ministry yeah it's great i mean i think ministry yeah it's great i mean i think ministry yeah it's great i mean i think you know to use the old John Maxwell Oh you know to use the old John Maxwell Oh you know to use the old John Maxwell Oh everything rises and falls on leadership everything rises and falls on leadership everything rises and falls on leadership and so the problem is I just don't think and so the problem is I just don't think and so the problem is I just don't think we feel comfortable or have a good like we feel comfortable or have a good like we feel comfortable or have a good like you said good handles on how to get the you said good handles on how to get the you said good handles on how to get the leaders first I mean teams don't matter leaders first I mean teams don't matter leaders first I mean teams don't matter if you don't have leaders all right and if you don't have leaders all right and if you don't have leaders all right and so teams without leaders are just groups so teams without leaders are just groups so teams without leaders are just groups of just groups of people standing places of just groups of people standing places of just groups of people standing places just spit on it and confused and coming

just spit on it and confused and coming just spit on it and confused and coming and quite honestly coming to their own and quite honestly coming to their own and quite honestly coming to their own conclusions yes so we've got to have conclusions yes so we've got to have conclusions yes so we've got to have great leaders the problem is we we don't great leaders the problem is we we don't great leaders the problem is we we don't I don't think have a great strategy for I don't think have a great strategy for I don't think have a great strategy for that a lot of time in the local church that a lot of time in the local church that a lot of time in the local church and we kind of go with the down here in and we kind of go with the down here in and we kind of go with the down here in the south we kind of go with the hay in the south we kind of go with the hay in the south we kind of go with the hay in any I want to help you know right right any I want to help you know right right any I want to help you know right right right right and so it's more that right right and so it's more that right right and so it's more that volunteer base like whoever standing volunteer base like whoever standing volunteer base like whoever standing around you're gonna get recruited and around you're gonna get recruited and around you're gonna get recruited and the only way you can become a leader in the only way you can become a leader in the only way you can become a leader in a lot of churches is you just you just a lot of churches is you just you just a lot of churches is you just you just have to outlive someone and so and so we have to outlive someone and so and so we have to outlive someone and so and so we just thought okay let's let's get just thought okay let's let's get just thought okay let's let's get intentional and what let's look at the intentional and what let's look at the intentional and what let's look at the greatest leader of all time and kind of greatest leader of all time and kind of greatest leader of all time and kind of see what he did in terms of building a see what he did in terms of building a see what he did in terms of building a great team yeah what are you pulling out great team yeah what are you pulling out great team yeah what are you pulling out of kind of the life of Jesus you know of kind of the life of Jesus you know of kind of the life of Jesus you know and applying that to your church how are and applying that to your church how are and applying that to your church how are you kind of looking at his model you you kind of looking at his model you you kind of looking at his model you know of team leadership and using that know of team leadership and using that know of team leadership and using that in your church well he didn't use the in your church well he didn't use the in your church well he didn't use the volunteer method okay didn't say like volunteer method okay didn't say like volunteer method okay didn't say like anybody want to run the kids ministry uh anybody want to run the kids ministry uh anybody want to run the kids ministry uh you know anybody want to hold a baby you know anybody want to hold a baby you know anybody want to hold a baby yeah he the Bible actually says when he yeah he the Bible actually says when he yeah he the Bible actually says when he would he would go from kind of looking would he would go from kind of looking would he would go from kind of looking across the crowd to pick the twelve that across the crowd to pick the twelve that across the crowd to pick the twelve that would be with him mm-hmm the Bible like would be with him mm-hmm the Bible like would be with him mm-hmm the Bible like she says he went away and he prayed all she says he went away and he prayed all she says he went away and he prayed all night long hmm so the first thing that I night long hmm so the first thing that I night long hmm so the first thing that I say and not to over spiritualize it but say and not to over spiritualize it but say and not to over spiritualize it but definitely not to minimize it you got to definitely not to minimize it you got to definitely not to minimize it you got to get away and pray mm-hmm I think that get away and pray mm-hmm I think that get away and pray mm-hmm I think that there are great leaders in your church there are great leaders in your church there are great leaders in your church that you that God's gonna have to give that you that God's gonna have to give that you that God's gonna have to give you eyes to see you eyes to see you eyes to see who that is and so he went away he who that is and so he went away he who that is and so he went away he prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people prayed mm-hmm quite honestly the people that he picked weren't finished products

that he picked weren't finished products that he picked weren't finished products they weren't finished products he just they weren't finished products he just they weren't finished products he just felt like God said man if you spend time felt like God said man if you spend time felt like God said man if you spend time with these 12 guys something great is with these 12 guys something great is with these 12 guys something great is gonna happen so he prayed and I would gonna happen so he prayed and I would gonna happen so he prayed and I would say the first thing you gotta do is you say the first thing you gotta do is you say the first thing you gotta do is you gotta gotta seek God the second thing he gotta gotta seek God the second thing he gotta gotta seek God the second thing he did is he selected okay yep so he didn't did is he selected okay yep so he didn't did is he selected okay yep so he didn't he didn't say who wants to be in my 12 he didn't say who wants to be in my 12 he didn't say who wants to be in my 12 hmm um he he prayed all night then he hmm um he he prayed all night then he hmm um he he prayed all night then he searched over the crowd and he picked searched over the crowd and he picked searched over the crowd and he picked right okay and so you've got to identify right okay and so you've got to identify right okay and so you've got to identify those those leaders now how are you those those leaders now how are you those those leaders now how are you getting into orbit of people to actually getting into orbit of people to actually getting into orbit of people to actually get out and do that selection because I get out and do that selection because I get out and do that selection because I think we default to the like hey let's think we default to the like hey let's think we default to the like hey let's put a form up on a website if you're put a form up on a website if you're put a form up on a website if you're interested we'll fill it out and then interested we'll fill it out and then interested we'll fill it out and then we'll kind of sift through that group we'll kind of sift through that group we'll kind of sift through that group you know in a church your size it's you you know in a church your size it's you you know in a church your size it's you know once you get up over a few hundred know once you get up over a few hundred know once you get up over a few hundred people it becomes very difficult to get people it becomes very difficult to get people it becomes very difficult to get a sense to how do you know people tell a sense to how do you know people tell a sense to how do you know people tell me about how you're doing that how are me about how you're doing that how are me about how you're doing that how are you selecting people well it's it's you selecting people well it's it's you selecting people well it's it's funny the way what we're looking for funny the way what we're looking for funny the way what we're looking for might be a little different then I'm not might be a little different then I'm not might be a little different then I'm not necessarily always looking for the necessarily always looking for the necessarily always looking for the hardest worker in the room mm-hmm which hardest worker in the room mm-hmm which hardest worker in the room mm-hmm which is typically what we end up selecting to is typically what we end up selecting to is typically what we end up selecting to be leaders in our churches that's a good be leaders in our churches that's a good be leaders in our churches that's a good so in our church we say it in this way so in our church we say it in this way so in our church we say it in this way we celebrate hard work but we don't we celebrate hard work but we don't we celebrate hard work but we don't elevate it mm we elevate gathers and elevate it mm we elevate gathers and elevate it mm we elevate gathers and team builders mmm and so when I'm in the team builders mmm and so when I'm in the team builders mmm and so when I'm in the crowd on a Sunday morning people coming crowd on a Sunday morning people coming crowd on a Sunday morning people coming and going in between services I'm just and going in between services I'm just and going in between services I'm just watching for the guy that there is

watching for the guy that there is watching for the guy that there is always people standing around yes always people standing around yes always people standing around yes because typically what we do is so i'll because typically what we do is so i'll because typically what we do is so i'll give it to you how we normally do it in give it to you how we normally do it in give it to you how we normally do it in church thing the guy we go through and church thing the guy we go through and church thing the guy we go through and there's a guy wiping down the window of there's a guy wiping down the window of there's a guy wiping down the window of the cafe and you're like man what a the cafe and you're like man what a the cafe and you're like man what a great servant leader he's so passionate great servant leader he's so passionate great servant leader he's so passionate but and then you come back the next week but and then you come back the next week but and then you come back the next week and that same guys wiping down the and that same guys wiping down the and that same guys wiping down the window the realtor he's women and you go window the realtor he's women and you go window the realtor he's women and you go man you're the leader of everything in man you're the leader of everything in man you're the leader of everything in the cafe not true okay he was super the cafe not true okay he was super the cafe not true okay he was super faithful and he was there but we did we faithful and he was there but we did we faithful and he was there but we did we we elevated a hard worker we didn't we elevated a hard worker we didn't we elevated a hard worker we didn't elevate a gatherer in a team builder oh elevate a gatherer in a team builder oh elevate a gatherer in a team builder oh this is such a good word I want hope the this is such a good word I want hope the this is such a good word I want hope the church leaders are listening church leaders are listening church leaders are listening what you're saying I think we do this what you're saying I think we do this what you're saying I think we do this all the time in churches we take people all the time in churches we take people all the time in churches we take people who are really good at doing things and who are really good at doing things and who are really good at doing things and make them leaders and then we beat them make them leaders and then we beat them make them leaders and then we beat them up when we're like stop doing things you up when we're like stop doing things you up when we're like stop doing things you need to be leading and multiplying need to be leading and multiplying need to be leading and multiplying people as opposed to you know the best people as opposed to you know the best people as opposed to you know the best way to find the leaders had a coach once way to find the leaders had a coach once way to find the leaders had a coach once a mean I live by this all the time the a mean I live by this all the time the a mean I live by this all the time the best way to find leaders is there people best way to find leaders is there people best way to find leaders is there people who already are leading how do you find who already are leading how do you find who already are leading how do you find those people that are out that are that those people that are out that are that those people that are out that are that are gathering folks really despite you are gathering folks really despite you are gathering folks really despite you but they're gathering people around you but they're gathering people around you but they're gathering people around you got on themselves yeah very good that's got on themselves yeah very good that's got on themselves yeah very good that's very good if you're having trouble with very good if you're having trouble with very good if you're having trouble with developing a leadership pipeline um have developing a leadership pipeline um have developing a leadership pipeline um have some people that you're wondering about some people that you're wondering about some people that you're wondering about have some barbecues at their house right have some barbecues at their house right have some barbecues at their house right god the guy that it really doesn't god the guy that it really doesn't god the guy that it really doesn't matter what he does in terms of matter what he does in terms of matter what he does in terms of invitations it really doesn't matter invitations it really doesn't matter invitations it really doesn't matter what hit food he's prepared 50 people what hit food he's prepared 50 people what hit food he's prepared 50 people are going to show up because he's the are going to show up because he's the are going to show up because he's the man right that guy needs to get pulled man right that guy needs to get pulled man right that guy needs to get pulled in and given some place to influence in and given some place to influence in and given some place to influence somewhere because here's the reality somewhere because here's the reality somewhere because here's the reality he's already influencing you're just not he's already influencing you're just not he's already influencing you're just not dictating in any way what that influence

dictating in any way what that influence dictating in any way what that influence looks like now do you have any kind of looks like now do you have any kind of looks like now do you have any kind of you know when you're out selecting do you know when you're out selecting do you know when you're out selecting do you have any kind of I don't know what you have any kind of I don't know what you have any kind of I don't know what you'd say kind of guidelines for the you'd say kind of guidelines for the you'd say kind of guidelines for the kinds of people you're trying to select kinds of people you're trying to select kinds of people you're trying to select or each is that just kind of like all or each is that just kind of like all or each is that just kind of like all gut feel all kind of you know the sniff gut feel all kind of you know the sniff gut feel all kind of you know the sniff test I once heard a leader say well I test I once heard a leader say well I test I once heard a leader say well I find leaders by the sniff test I get find leaders by the sniff test I get find leaders by the sniff test I get close and I sniff them and see you know close and I sniff them and see you know close and I sniff them and see you know what's that like what does that look what's that like what does that look what's that like what does that look like for you guys yeah I think it's a like for you guys yeah I think it's a like for you guys yeah I think it's a little bit of both I think there's a little bit of both I think there's a little bit of both I think there's a little sniff testing going on in our little sniff testing going on in our little sniff testing going on in our church we we're looking for some divine church we we're looking for some divine church we we're looking for some divine flow honestly I love bill hybels said it flow honestly I love bill hybels said it flow honestly I love bill hybels said it years ago he looks for several things years ago he looks for several things years ago he looks for several things character um are they just people of character um are they just people of character um are they just people of good character do they fit your culture good character do they fit your culture good character do they fit your culture and really for us we're allowed we laugh and really for us we're allowed we laugh and really for us we're allowed we laugh I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit I mean it's it's gonna be so do you fit the culture if you're just meek and mild the culture if you're just meek and mild the culture if you're just meek and mild and just kind of scared in a room full and just kind of scared in a room full and just kind of scared in a room full of people like you're probably not going of people like you're probably not going of people like you're probably not going to fit in our staff culture really well to fit in our staff culture really well to fit in our staff culture really well it's probably going to get probably it's probably going to get probably it's probably going to get probably going to get run over we're telling going to get run over we're telling going to get run over we're telling jokes we're laughing we're slapping jokes we're laughing we're slapping jokes we're laughing we're slapping everybody on the back um do you have everybody on the back um do you have everybody on the back um do you have some competency mm-hmm and are you some competency mm-hmm and are you some competency mm-hmm and are you called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if called mm-hmm if if you're not gonna if you're not if we don't hire you if we you're not if we don't hire you if we you're not if we don't hire you if we don't do anything with you are you still don't do anything with you are you still don't do anything with you are you still gonna try and help right right right gonna try and help right right right gonna try and help right right right right and when you find those guys that right and when you find those guys that right and when you find those guys that who you really want to start gravitating who you really want to start gravitating who you really want to start gravitating towards the highest levels of leadership towards the highest levels of leadership towards the highest levels of leadership in your organization and the way that I in your organization and the way that I in your organization and the way that I tell people I need you to let me treat tell people I need you to let me treat tell people I need you to let me treat you like staff before I can pay you like you like staff before I can pay you like you like staff before I can pay you like one mmm oh that's good that's very good one mmm oh that's good that's very good one mmm oh that's good that's very good um and so let me treat you that way let

um and so let me treat you that way let um and so let me treat you that way let me hold you to that character standard me hold you to that character standard me hold you to that character standard let me hold you to that call standard if let me hold you to that call standard if let me hold you to that call standard if you hold you to all those things and you hold you to all those things and you hold you to all those things and then here's what I'm gonna give ask you then here's what I'm gonna give ask you then here's what I'm gonna give ask you to do lead so well that if I don't hire to do lead so well that if I don't hire to do lead so well that if I don't hire you I will lose leadership credibility you I will lose leadership credibility you I will lose leadership credibility mmm like like what tie my hands behind mmm like like what tie my hands behind mmm like like what tie my hands behind my back right or Smee like if they say my back right or Smee like if they say my back right or Smee like if they say you know Josh just obviously isn't a you know Josh just obviously isn't a you know Josh just obviously isn't a good leader if he can't recognize that good leader if he can't recognize that good leader if he can't recognize that this guy over here is killing it like this guy over here is killing it like this guy over here is killing it like when you put me in that position you when you put me in that position you when you put me in that position you have grown us to a place where I have to have grown us to a place where I have to have grown us to a place where I have to hire you to keep moving forward right hire you to keep moving forward right hire you to keep moving forward right right very good and then we get to then right very good and then we get to then right very good and then we get to then we put just in a fun place where we get we put just in a fun place where we get we put just in a fun place where we get to actually hire what's happening mmm to actually hire what's happening mmm to actually hire what's happening mmm rather than just hoping or hiring rather than just hoping or hiring rather than just hoping or hiring potential or it might work out or you potential or it might work out or you potential or it might work out or you know that's nothing so we've prayed know that's nothing so we've prayed know that's nothing so we've prayed we've out we've done some selection what we've out we've done some selection what we've out we've done some selection what else do we need to be thinking about so else do we need to be thinking about so else do we need to be thinking about so the really the third thing so II prayed the really the third thing so II prayed the really the third thing so II prayed he selected a mini invested okay what is he selected a mini invested okay what is he selected a mini invested okay what is it that well I think we need to it that well I think we need to it that well I think we need to understand that they're not a finished understand that they're not a finished understand that they're not a finished they're not a finished work I see a lot they're not a finished work I see a lot they're not a finished work I see a lot of pastors that put people in position of pastors that put people in position of pastors that put people in position and then they spend most of their and then they spend most of their and then they spend most of their leadership life actually upset that leadership life actually upset that leadership life actually upset that people aren't getting it uh strand and people aren't getting it uh strand and people aren't getting it uh strand and if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right that if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right that if I read Ephesians chapter 4 right that my job is to do the equipping right my job is to do the equipping right my job is to do the equipping right mm-hmm quit God's people for works of mm-hmm quit God's people for works of mm-hmm quit God's people for works of ministry why in the world would I ever ministry why in the world would I ever ministry why in the world would I ever wake up mad that I still have a job wake up mad that I still have a job wake up mad that I still have a job right what once they get it all once

right what once they get it all once right what once they get it all once they understand everything that we're they understand everything that we're they understand everything that we're trying to teach them they don't need me trying to teach them they don't need me trying to teach them they don't need me anymore mm-hmm and so so what we've got anymore mm-hmm and so so what we've got anymore mm-hmm and so so what we've got to come to grips with is the idea that to come to grips with is the idea that to come to grips with is the idea that man our job is to equip that we're okay man our job is to equip that we're okay man our job is to equip that we're okay with it not always being okay right with it not always being okay right with it not always being okay right absolutely what does that look like for absolutely what does that look like for absolutely what does that look like for you kind of practically how are you you kind of practically how are you you kind of practically how are you equipping let's kind of take maybe a new equipping let's kind of take maybe a new equipping let's kind of take maybe a new leader we'll start there so someone who leader we'll start there so someone who leader we'll start there so someone who you're you know you've identified them you're you know you've identified them you're you know you've identified them you're like hey this is a person who you're like hey this is a person who you're like hey this is a person who they're killing it in their area how do they're killing it in their area how do they're killing it in their area how do we what are you doing to kind of equip we what are you doing to kind of equip we what are you doing to kind of equip in in in equip them and invest in them yeah well equip them and invest in them yeah well equip them and invest in them yeah well the first thing that you have a the first thing that you have a the first thing that you have a responsibility to them to come up with responsibility to them to come up with responsibility to them to come up with is the standard okay unfortunately I is the standard okay unfortunately I is the standard okay unfortunately I think we get a lot of guys that we're think we get a lot of guys that we're think we get a lot of guys that we're bringing in that we say go lead this bringing in that we say go lead this bringing in that we say go lead this thing then we stay frustrated at them or thing then we stay frustrated at them or thing then we stay frustrated at them or disappointed in the output but the disappointed in the output but the disappointed in the output but the reality is they are there only ever reality is they are there only ever reality is they are there only ever chasing an opinion right what you write chasing an opinion right what you write chasing an opinion right what you write down a standard when it's a written down a standard when it's a written down a standard when it's a written standard that's why the Word of God is standard that's why the Word of God is standard that's why the Word of God is so important for the Christian community so important for the Christian community so important for the Christian community we have a written standard mmm when you we have a written standard mmm when you we have a written standard mmm when you have a written standard you can always have a written standard you can always have a written standard you can always point back to the standard mm-hmm when point back to the standard mm-hmm when point back to the standard mm-hmm when you don't have a written standard all you don't have a written standard all you don't have a written standard all you can ever point back to is an opinion you can ever point back to is an opinion you can ever point back to is an opinion mm that's good in most cases in our mm that's good in most cases in our mm that's good in most cases in our churches we have leaders that are just churches we have leaders that are just churches we have leaders that are just chasing down our opinions hmm but when chasing down our opinions hmm but when chasing down our opinions hmm but when you'll write down a clearly communicate you'll write down a clearly communicate you'll write down a clearly communicate this is how you greet in this church now this is how you greet in this church now this is how you greet in this church now it can be we say clearly written it can be we say clearly written it can be we say clearly written standard but I I would maybe expand that standard but I I would maybe expand that standard but I I would maybe expand that to say just ain't clearly communicated to say just ain't clearly communicated to say just ain't clearly communicated we live in the 21st century let's do we live in the 21st century let's do we live in the 21st century let's do some videos mmm take a two minute video

some videos mmm take a two minute video some videos mmm take a two minute video of what it means to actually greet at of what it means to actually greet at of what it means to actually greet at your door mm-hmm put it on a YouTube your door mm-hmm put it on a YouTube your door mm-hmm put it on a YouTube channel that's just for your team people channel that's just for your team people channel that's just for your team people can go see okay that's the standard can go see okay that's the standard can go see okay that's the standard mm-hmm most of the time we don't give mm-hmm most of the time we don't give mm-hmm most of the time we don't give that we just a frustrated that they're that we just a frustrated that they're that we just a frustrated that they're not where they are so right you you've not where they are so right you you've not where they are so right you you've got to know the standard first it starts got to know the standard first it starts got to know the standard first it starts with you and so if you don't have it with you and so if you don't have it with you and so if you don't have it written down your prop honestly you it's written down your prop honestly you it's written down your prop honestly you it's almost dangerous and a little negligent almost dangerous and a little negligent almost dangerous and a little negligent to be building teams right because to be building teams right because to be building teams right because you're just going to frustrate yourself you're just going to frustrate yourself you're just going to frustrate yourself in them mmm that's very good and and are in them mmm that's very good and and are in them mmm that's very good and and are you doing that across the board kind of you doing that across the board kind of you doing that across the board kind of for all your roles you're trying to find for all your roles you're trying to find for all your roles you're trying to find its you know basically what are the its you know basically what are the its you know basically what are the areas that we're not writing them down areas that we're not writing them down areas that we're not writing them down and we're not communicating it clearly and we're not communicating it clearly and we're not communicating it clearly and you know making that happen yeah and you know making that happen yeah and you know making that happen yeah absolutely i mean we have I was in the absolutely i mean we have I was in the absolutely i mean we have I was in the military in so they call him SOP military in so they call him SOP military in so they call him SOP standard operating procedures so we so standard operating procedures so we so standard operating procedures so we so we have a standard operating procedure we have a standard operating procedure we have a standard operating procedure for every role in the church and and for every role in the church and and for every role in the church and and when that new person is asked to be a when that new person is asked to be a when that new person is asked to be a part of that thing what sitting down part of that thing what sitting down part of that thing what sitting down with first is this is what it looks like with first is this is what it looks like with first is this is what it looks like right now don't miss this church leaders right now don't miss this church leaders right now don't miss this church leaders that are listening in as that are listening in as that are listening in as standard operating procedures allows you standard operating procedures allows you standard operating procedures allows you to scale your leadership by taking the to scale your leadership by taking the to scale your leadership by taking the time to wrestle through with your time to wrestle through with your time to wrestle through with your leaders what is the the normal way that leaders what is the the normal way that leaders what is the the normal way that things should happen at your church that things should happen at your church that things should happen at your church that allows you your influence to ripple out allows you your influence to ripple out allows you your influence to ripple out and continue really for you to lead when and continue really for you to lead when and continue really for you to lead when you're not in the room that's what it's you're not in the room that's what it's you're not in the room that's what it's all about it so allow you to continue to all about it so allow you to continue to all about it so allow you to continue to articulate this is what we're looking articulate this is what we're looking articulate this is what we're looking for very cool now what happens if

for very cool now what happens if for very cool now what happens if somebody you know it just doesn't start somebody you know it just doesn't start somebody you know it just doesn't start to not work out there's a leader who to not work out there's a leader who to not work out there's a leader who it's you know maybe things aren't it's you know maybe things aren't it's you know maybe things aren't working right I'm sure it always works working right I'm sure it always works working right I'm sure it always works right at your church so you know maybe right at your church so you know maybe right at your church so you know maybe what would you theoretically do if it what would you theoretically do if it what would you theoretically do if it didn't work out yeah well so didn't work out yeah well so didn't work out yeah well so hypothetically at other peoples churches hypothetically at other peoples churches hypothetically at other peoples churches this is probably exactly what it would this is probably exactly what it would this is probably exactly what it would look like right right um that I think we look like right right um that I think we look like right right um that I think we I think a great leader should always I think a great leader should always I think a great leader should always default to the reason that it didn't default to the reason that it didn't default to the reason that it didn't happen right or they didn't execute happen right or they didn't execute happen right or they didn't execute isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go isn't their fault it's mine mmm let's go give up uh I start and we train our our give up uh I start and we train our our give up uh I start and we train our our staff to assume that the reason that staff to assume that the reason that staff to assume that the reason that they aren't doing it right is they they aren't doing it right is they they aren't doing it right is they haven't heard it enough mmm you know we haven't heard it enough mmm you know we haven't heard it enough mmm you know we tend to forget in the church world that tend to forget in the church world that tend to forget in the church world that we're in this seven days a week you you we're in this seven days a week you you we're in this seven days a week you you woke up this morning thinking about woke up this morning thinking about woke up this morning thinking about church and how to lead and Bill they church and how to lead and Bill they church and how to lead and Bill they didn't they they're just trying to get didn't they they're just trying to get didn't they they're just trying to get to work on time right um they're to work on time right um they're to work on time right um they're thinking about man it's Friday night thinking about man it's Friday night thinking about man it's Friday night we're probably gonna go catch a movie we're probably gonna go catch a movie we're probably gonna go catch a movie right I mean there's David and then come right I mean there's David and then come right I mean there's David and then come Sunday morning about nine in the morning Sunday morning about nine in the morning Sunday morning about nine in the morning 15 minutes before their scheduled to be 15 minutes before their scheduled to be 15 minutes before their scheduled to be there they start thinking about you there they start thinking about you there they start thinking about you again and so we assume in they just again and so we assume in they just again and so we assume in they just haven't heard it enough and so go so we haven't heard it enough and so go so we haven't heard it enough and so go so we say you gotta know the standard but then say you gotta know the standard but then say you gotta know the standard but then the next thing a great leader is gonna the next thing a great leader is gonna the next thing a great leader is gonna have to do is communicate that standard have to do is communicate that standard have to do is communicate that standard and we say you've communicated enough and we say you've communicated enough and we say you've communicated enough when it starts to but make you sick at when it starts to but make you sick at when it starts to but make you sick at your stomach when you're saying it again your stomach when you're saying it again your stomach when you're saying it again right right right there's like I can't

right right right there's like I can't right right right there's like I can't even I can't even am at like how are you even I can't even am at like how are you even I can't even am at like how are you not getting this right but then the not getting this right but then the not getting this right but then the third thing is you got to enforce that third thing is you got to enforce that third thing is you got to enforce that standard mmm you can't you've got to be standard mmm you can't you've got to be standard mmm you can't you've got to be willing to have the difficult willing to have the difficult willing to have the difficult conversations mm-hmm I would say as conversations mm-hmm I would say as conversations mm-hmm I would say as pastors ninety-five percent of what we pastors ninety-five percent of what we pastors ninety-five percent of what we do a risen a reasonably educated high do a risen a reasonably educated high do a risen a reasonably educated high school student can do it school student can do it school student can do it writes true right I don't think of a writes true right I don't think of a writes true right I don't think of a most of what we do most anybody but you most of what we do most anybody but you most of what we do most anybody but you and I have a job for the five percent and I have a job for the five percent and I have a job for the five percent mm-hmm for the five percent of mm-hmm for the five percent of mm-hmm for the five percent of conversations that nobody wants to have conversations that nobody wants to have conversations that nobody wants to have right right and so we've got to be right right and so we've got to be right right and so we've got to be willing to say so to use another John willing to say so to use another John willing to say so to use another John Maxwell he said everybody in your Maxwell he said everybody in your Maxwell he said everybody in your organization needs to be trained so we organization needs to be trained so we organization needs to be trained so we assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm assume that's a hundred percent mm-hmm they need to be transferred there just they need to be transferred there just they need to be transferred there just on the wrong seat of the bus and that's on the wrong seat of the bus and that's on the wrong seat of the bus and that's probably not their fault it's yours probably not their fault it's yours probably not their fault it's yours because you put you put up on a window because you put you put up on a window because you put you put up on a window you put a window washer okay into the you put a window washer okay into the you put a window washer okay into the all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they all over the entire cafe mm-hmm so they do seem to be transferred into a better do seem to be transferred into a better do seem to be transferred into a better seat or they need that you need to let seat or they need that you need to let seat or they need that you need to let him go right now the let them go we just him go right now the let them go we just him go right now the let them go we just assume at the end of the day we never we assume at the end of the day we never we assume at the end of the day we never we never let somebody go because they're never let somebody go because they're never let somebody go because they're like because of output mmm it's like because of output mmm it's like because of output mmm it's typically back on that end of its typically back on that end of its typically back on that end of its character write or call yeah definitely character write or call yeah definitely character write or call yeah definitely very cool I another way I've heard it very cool I another way I've heard it very cool I another way I've heard it articulated around that kind of ensuring articulated around that kind of ensuring articulated around that kind of ensuring people understand and know that the people understand and know that the people understand and know that the standard is you know that you're standard is you know that you're standard is you know that you're starting to communicate it enough when starting to communicate it enough when starting to communicate it enough when people start making fun of it you know people start making fun of it you know people start making fun of it you know when they're like ah this is how we're when they're like ah this is how we're when they're like ah this is how we're supposed to stand or this is what a good

supposed to stand or this is what a good supposed to stand or this is what a good guest experience is like or this is you guest experience is like or this is you guest experience is like or this is you know oh you know are you doing the right know oh you know are you doing the right know oh you know are you doing the right thing as a worship leader you know today thing as a worship leader you know today thing as a worship leader you know today but if that's not happening it you're but if that's not happening it you're but if that's not happening it you're probably not communicating it enough probably not communicating it enough probably not communicating it enough yeah and I i think i think we typically yeah and I i think i think we typically yeah and I i think i think we typically we typically shy away from these we typically shy away from these we typically shy away from these difficult conversations especially when difficult conversations especially when difficult conversations especially when we're dealing with volunteers yes and I we're dealing with volunteers yes and I we're dealing with volunteers yes and I would just beg pastors to stop doing would just beg pastors to stop doing would just beg pastors to stop doing that because here's here and here's why that because here's here and here's why that because here's here and here's why we're doing it mm-hmm years ago we got we're doing it mm-hmm years ago we got we're doing it mm-hmm years ago we got this horrible thought process in the this horrible thought process in the this horrible thought process in the American church that said that American church that said that American church that said that discipleship is learning a bunch of discipleship is learning a bunch of discipleship is learning a bunch of Bible verses and going to Sunday School Bible verses and going to Sunday School Bible verses and going to Sunday School every week mm and but discipleship isn't every week mm and but discipleship isn't every week mm and but discipleship isn't memorizing a bunch of Bible verses the memorizing a bunch of Bible verses the memorizing a bunch of Bible verses the devil of Hell quoted scripture to Jesus devil of Hell quoted scripture to Jesus devil of Hell quoted scripture to Jesus um yes so it's it's the application of um yes so it's it's the application of um yes so it's it's the application of the information and so so when you ask the information and so so when you ask the information and so so when you ask them when you insist that they're there them when you insist that they're there them when you insist that they're there on time mm-hmm when you insist that they on time mm-hmm when you insist that they on time mm-hmm when you insist that they dress a certain way when you insist that dress a certain way when you insist that dress a certain way when you insist that they treat people with a certain manner they treat people with a certain manner they treat people with a certain manner of when you insist that they submit to a of when you insist that they submit to a of when you insist that they submit to a healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that healthy authority mm-hmm you insist that they honor when you all those things they honor when you all those things they honor when you all those things that's discipleship so truth it's not that's discipleship so truth it's not that's discipleship so truth it's not getting them to go to your Sunday school getting them to go to your Sunday school getting them to go to your Sunday school or it's not to go to your your small or it's not to go to your your small or it's not to go to your your small group even on a Wednesday night disciple group even on a Wednesday night disciple group even on a Wednesday night disciple yep it's when you give them tools to be yep it's when you give them tools to be yep it's when you give them tools to be better lead better and have more better lead better and have more better lead better and have more influence and they do it yes and then influence and they do it yes and then influence and they do it yes and then when they don't do it they're mature when they don't do it they're mature when they don't do it they're mature enough to have the healthy conversation enough to have the healthy conversation enough to have the healthy conversation to dial it in so we never make apologies

to dial it in so we never make apologies to dial it in so we never make apologies for having high expectations and we for having high expectations and we for having high expectations and we never even we don't even think of it as never even we don't even think of it as never even we don't even think of it as like a volunteer or a stat it's it's like a volunteer or a stat it's it's like a volunteer or a stat it's it's we're all being discipled mm-hmm so we're all being discipled mm-hmm so we're all being discipled mm-hmm so we're all readily stepping into those we're all readily stepping into those we're all readily stepping into those standards because we need to get better standards because we need to get better standards because we need to get better every day man this is fantastic this has every day man this is fantastic this has every day man this is fantastic this has been such a great great conversation been such a great great conversation been such a great great conversation today I'm sure it's been challenging for today I'm sure it's been challenging for today I'm sure it's been challenging for folks that have been listening in is folks that have been listening in is folks that have been listening in is there anything else you want to share there anything else you want to share there anything else you want to share just before we turn the corner into the just before we turn the corner into the just before we turn the corner into the next part of our episode hey even Jesus next part of our episode hey even Jesus next part of our episode hey even Jesus had a guy that didn't work out hmm and had a guy that didn't work out hmm and had a guy that didn't work out hmm and so it's okay yes it's Oh have permission so it's okay yes it's Oh have permission so it's okay yes it's Oh have permission to put people in place and it not work to put people in place and it not work to put people in place and it not work out right it's okay it doesn't make you out right it's okay it doesn't make you out right it's okay it doesn't make you a bad leader and here's the other thing a bad leader and here's the other thing a bad leader and here's the other thing it doesn't make them a bad person right it doesn't make them a bad person right it doesn't make them a bad person right there are just some people that don't there are just some people that don't there are just some people that don't need to be on your particular bus right need to be on your particular bus right need to be on your particular bus right you be okay with that most of us teach you be okay with that most of us teach you be okay with that most of us teach the body of Christ but we just don't the body of Christ but we just don't the body of Christ but we just don't believe it right and so we think when believe it right and so we think when believe it right and so we think when somebody leaves our body there must be somebody leaves our body there must be somebody leaves our body there must be something wrong with them mmm they're something wrong with them mmm they're something wrong with them mmm they're not leaving our body they're leaving our not leaving our body they're leaving our not leaving our body they're leaving our part of the overall body of Christ to part of the overall body of Christ to part of the overall body of Christ to hopefully get in the part of the body hopefully get in the part of the body hopefully get in the part of the body that they were created for yes that's a that they were created for yes that's a that they were created for yes that's a good word i think you know sometimes we good word i think you know sometimes we good word i think you know sometimes we get so much we put so much pressure on get so much we put so much pressure on get so much we put so much pressure on ourselves and on our people and we ourselves and on our people and we ourselves and on our people and we forget that you know and by trying to forget that you know and by trying to forget that you know and by trying to avoid getting team members like that avoid getting team members like that avoid getting team members like that word don't take the risks and we don't word don't take the risks and we don't word don't take the risks and we don't develop people and we don't because develop people and we don't because develop people and we don't because we're like we're we're looking for fully we're like we're we're looking for fully we're like we're we're looking for fully baked leaders who have it all together

baked leaders who have it all together baked leaders who have it all together we're that's just not the case right we're that's just not the case right we're that's just not the case right Jesus Jesus Jesus a risk on like you're saying one guy a risk on like you're saying one guy a risk on like you're saying one guy didn't work out that but that's just a didn't work out that but that's just a didn't work out that but that's just a part of it that's a part of the game if part of it that's a part of the game if part of it that's a part of the game if the flip side of it is if we if we are the flip side of it is if we if we are the flip side of it is if we if we are only looking for fully baked leaders only looking for fully baked leaders only looking for fully baked leaders we're never going to develop people we're never going to develop people we're never going to develop people we're never going to see some advances we're never going to see some advances we're never going to see some advances for sure I think it's not a good word for sure I think it's not a good word for sure I think it's not a good word and the reality is they didn't become and the reality is they didn't become and the reality is they didn't become great leaders until he was gone yes oh great leaders until he was gone yes oh great leaders until he was gone yes oh that's good so he did such a good job of that's good so he did such a good job of that's good so he did such a good job of communicating the standard that when he communicating the standard that when he communicating the standard that when he left they were able to step into all left they were able to step into all left they were able to step into all that he had for them this is the uncen that he had for them this is the uncen that he had for them this is the uncen airy podcast stuff you wish they taught airy podcast stuff you wish they taught airy podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump in seminary well we're going to jump in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of the episode where we asked the similar the episode where we asked the similar the episode where we asked the similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we've got Josh from Turning show today we've got Josh from Turning show today we've got Josh from Turning Point Church just a great conversation Point Church just a great conversation Point Church just a great conversation today I've been so thankful for Josh today I've been so thankful for Josh today I've been so thankful for Josh what's an online resource you're using what's an online resource you're using what's an online resource you're using these days that's kind of helping you in these days that's kind of helping you in these days that's kind of helping you in your ministry man I don't know if you've your ministry man I don't know if you've your ministry man I don't know if you've heard of it yet but it's called slack heard of it yet but it's called slack heard of it yet but it's called slack yeah and created tells you it's just yeah and created tells you it's just yeah and created tells you it's just great it's it's basically in our staff great it's it's basically in our staff great it's it's basically in our staff now has replaced email and text now has replaced email and text now has replaced email and text messaging mm for communication through messaging mm for communication through messaging mm for communication through the whole staff it's it's a few have it the whole staff it's it's a few have it the whole staff it's it's a few have it if you haven't spent any time on it that if you haven't spent any time on it that if you haven't spent any time on it that the only way it's going to work if you the only way it's going to work if you the only way it's going to work if you would ever want to open it up and try to would ever want to open it up and try to would ever want to open it up and try to implement it for anybody that's implement it for anybody that's implement it for anybody that's listening the only way it's going to listening the only way it's going to listening the only way it's going to work is you have to get a hundred work is you have to get a hundred work is you have to get a hundred percent by in yes because if they're if percent by in yes because if they're if percent by in yes because if they're if you're using slack but then they're you're using slack but then they're you're using slack but then they're still texting you questions and then still texting you questions and then still texting you questions and then they're still emailing you some stuff they're still emailing you some stuff they're still emailing you some stuff it's going to become very frustrating it's going to become very frustrating it's going to become very frustrating mm-hmm but we just said okay this is mm-hmm but we just said okay this is mm-hmm but we just said okay this is what we're going to we want a one-stop what we're going to we want a one-stop what we're going to we want a one-stop shop that's going to handle all of our shop that's going to handle all of our shop that's going to handle all of our communication emails too slow text

communication emails too slow text communication emails too slow text message it's too messy we can't track it message it's too messy we can't track it message it's too messy we can't track it let's put it all into one animal um so I let's put it all into one animal um so I let's put it all into one animal um so I end up Mike my staff would text me end up Mike my staff would text me end up Mike my staff would text me questions and I just wouldn't respond questions and I just wouldn't respond questions and I just wouldn't respond nice i'm just not gonna respond right nice i'm just not gonna respond right nice i'm just not gonna respond right but once you slack it to me i'll respond but once you slack it to me i'll respond but once you slack it to me i'll respond and yeah just took us a couple of weeks and yeah just took us a couple of weeks and yeah just took us a couple of weeks once we got the buy-in that's where all once we got the buy-in that's where all once we got the buy-in that's where all communications living in it so fast yeah communications living in it so fast yeah communications living in it so fast yeah fantastic if you haven't if you have a fantastic if you haven't if you have a fantastic if you haven't if you have a team of you know even two or three team of you know even two or three team of you know even two or three people slack is a great tool you people slack is a great tool you people slack is a great tool you definitely need to check that out what's definitely need to check that out what's definitely need to check that out what's a book you've read in the last six a book you've read in the last six a book you've read in the last six months or so that you know is really months or so that you know is really months or so that you know is really shaping your thinking and your ministry shaping your thinking and your ministry shaping your thinking and your ministry as dr. samuel Chandy said it was a book as dr. samuel Chandy said it was a book as dr. samuel Chandy said it was a book called cracking your church's culture called cracking your church's culture called cracking your church's culture code and just a very I think it will code and just a very I think it will code and just a very I think it will give you some very give you some very give you some very healthy labels in terms of identifying healthy labels in terms of identifying healthy labels in terms of identifying your church's culture and then help you your church's culture and then help you your church's culture and then help you pick based on those where you are and pick based on those where you are and pick based on those where you are and then I think practical steps to help then I think practical steps to help then I think practical steps to help improve that a little bit verical we're improve that a little bit verical we're improve that a little bit verical we're probably none of us are doing as good as probably none of us are doing as good as probably none of us are doing as good as we think we are it's very true so fridge we think we are it's very true so fridge we think we are it's very true so fridge that's a great book what's another that's a great book what's another that's a great book what's another ministry you're looking to that inspires ministry you're looking to that inspires ministry you're looking to that inspires you the the it would be the association you the the it would be the association you the the it would be the association of related churches or mark mm-hmm an of related churches or mark mm-hmm an of related churches or mark mm-hmm an organization that I get to be a part of organization that I get to be a part of organization that I get to be a part of that actually helps start our church so that actually helps start our church so that actually helps start our church so you're looking to ever plant a church you're looking to ever plant a church you're looking to ever plant a church this organization I think is just one of this organization I think is just one of this organization I think is just one of the best and that's and they get behind the best and that's and they get behind the best and that's and they get behind you the church planning is one of the you the church planning is one of the you the church planning is one of the hardest things you can do and it's one hardest things you can do and it's one hardest things you can do and it's one of the most failed endeavors of any

of the most failed endeavors of any of the most failed endeavors of any business but ark has a ninety-three business but ark has a ninety-three business but ark has a ninety-three percent success rate after the five-year percent success rate after the five-year percent success rate after the five-year mark the churches no healthy viable mark the churches no healthy viable mark the churches no healthy viable growing than well so that an growing than well so that an growing than well so that an organization called grow which it if organization called grow which it if organization called grow which it if you've all if you're already going you've all if you're already going you've all if you're already going mm-hmm a church and just want to put in mm-hmm a church and just want to put in mm-hmm a church and just want to put in systems and structures and strategies to systems and structures and strategies to systems and structures and strategies to help you break through different growth help you break through different growth help you break through different growth barriers mm-hmm it's uh it's grow leader barriers mm-hmm it's uh it's grow leader barriers mm-hmm it's uh it's grow leader calm and and it's pastor chris hodges at calm and and it's pastor chris hodges at calm and and it's pastor chris hodges at church of the highlands it's something church of the highlands it's something church of the highlands it's something they started they're trying to get their they started they're trying to get their they started they're trying to get their try his his vision was to help a try his his vision was to help a try his his vision was to help a thousand churches break a thousand thousand churches break a thousand thousand churches break a thousand that's great i've just taking these that's great i've just taking these that's great i've just taking these principles and working them in your in principles and working them in your in principles and working them in your in your church and it's it's pretty amazing your church and it's it's pretty amazing your church and it's it's pretty amazing very cool if you could get 15 minutes very cool if you could get 15 minutes very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would with any leader alive today who would with any leader alive today who would you want to get that with and why it's you want to get that with and why it's you want to get that with and why it's just my pastor yeah pastor chris hodges just my pastor yeah pastor chris hodges just my pastor yeah pastor chris hodges he's just one of the great leaders in he's just one of the great leaders in he's just one of the great leaders in the local church in the world today he the local church in the world today he the local church in the world today he leads at such a high level and with such leads at such a high level and with such leads at such a high level and with such with such amazing intentionality that with such amazing intentionality that with such amazing intentionality that really everything that i understand in really everything that i understand in really everything that i understand in terms of and there's very little that terms of and there's very little that terms of and there's very little that i've even said today that wasn't i've even said today that wasn't i've even said today that wasn't directly or indirectly influenced by him directly or indirectly influenced by him directly or indirectly influenced by him as a leader and so just everything from as a leader and so just everything from as a leader and so just everything from how he leads his kids to how he manages how he leads his kids to how he manages how he leads his kids to how he manages a 15 year old church of 45,000 people a 15 year old church of 45,000 people a 15 year old church of 45,000 people yeah um he just he's just one of the yeah um he just he's just one of the yeah um he just he's just one of the great leaders in the world today great leaders in the world today great leaders in the world today fantastic well I'm sure leading at the fantastic well I'm sure leading at the fantastic well I'm sure leading at the church you know it's a lot of work and church you know it's a lot of work and church you know it's a lot of work and when you're looking to just kind of when you're looking to just kind of when you're looking to just kind of kickback kickback kickback back relax you know have a little back relax you know have a little back relax you know have a little personal time what do you do for fun so

personal time what do you do for fun so personal time what do you do for fun so I got to play some college football when I got to play some college football when I got to play some college football when every when everything was when my body every when everything was when my body every when everything was when my body looked incredibly different and looked incredibly different and looked incredibly different and everything wasn't sword and hurting and everything wasn't sword and hurting and everything wasn't sword and hurting and and so I like anything though where I and so I like anything though where I and so I like anything though where I can compete yeah even still so you know can compete yeah even still so you know can compete yeah even still so you know marathons triathlons done done some marathons triathlons done done some marathons triathlons done done some Ironman triathlon so it's a I like that Ironman triathlon so it's a I like that Ironman triathlon so it's a I like that kind of thing very cool well Josh I kind of thing very cool well Josh I kind of thing very cool well Josh I appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that or with the church how can they do that or with the church how can they do that well are the website is turning point well are the website is turning point well are the website is turning point see in as in church network turning see in as in church network turning see in as in church network turning points en calm and our contact info is points en calm and our contact info is points en calm and our contact info is on there but right or you can catch me on there but right or you can catch me on there but right or you can catch me at twitter which is just Joshua at twitter which is just Joshua at twitter which is just Joshua underscore Lonnie mau in ey and you can underscore Lonnie mau in ey and you can underscore Lonnie mau in ey and you can hit me up on Twitter and will we can we hit me up on Twitter and will we can we hit me up on Twitter and will we can we can chat that way nice Josh I really can chat that way nice Josh I really can chat that way nice Josh I really appreciate be on the show today have a appreciate be on the show today have a appreciate be on the show today have a great weekend man it was a blessing great weekend man it was a blessing great weekend man it was a blessing Bless You Man thank you so much thank Bless You Man thank you so much thank Bless You Man thank you so much thank you thank you for tuning in to this you thank you for tuning in to this you thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on we'd love to connect check out on we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at seminary inbox you can sign up at seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus training resources every week plus training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter add rich birch or through on twitter add rich birch or through on twitter add rich birch or through email rich at unset maneri calm don't email rich at unset maneri calm don't email rich at unset maneri calm don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode a ton seminary calm it this episode a ton seminary calm it this episode a ton seminary calm it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a

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