Bruxy Cavey on The Misunderstood Leadership Traits of Jesus

L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast all right well happy unseminary podcast all right well happy unseminary podcast all right well happy Thursday everybody it's Rich here from Thursday everybody it's Rich here from Thursday everybody it's Rich here from the unseminary podcast I'm so glad that the unseminary podcast I'm so glad that the unseminary podcast I'm so glad that you've decided to spend some time with you've decided to spend some time with you've decided to spend some time with us I know there's a lot of things you us I know there's a lot of things you us I know there's a lot of things you could be doing with your time today and could be doing with your time today and could be doing with your time today and so it's just a privilege I'm humble that so it's just a privilege I'm humble that so it's just a privilege I'm humble that you'd put put us in your earbuds to uh you'd put put us in your earbuds to uh you'd put put us in your earbuds to uh to just learn a little bit from another to just learn a little bit from another to just learn a little bit from another church leader uh today I'm honored to church leader uh today I'm honored to church leader uh today I'm honored to have a friend uh my former boss uh have a friend uh my former boss uh have a friend uh my former boss uh Brookie K on the line uh from the Brookie K on the line uh from the Brookie K on the line uh from the meeting house in uh in Toronto Canada or meeting house in uh in Toronto Canada or meeting house in uh in Toronto Canada or kind of based in Toronto Ontario Canada kind of based in Toronto Ontario Canada kind of based in Toronto Ontario Canada Brookie welcome to the show this is a Brookie welcome to the show this is a Brookie welcome to the show this is a privilege Rich it's lovely to be privilege Rich it's lovely to be privilege Rich it's lovely to be connecting this way thank you yeah it's connecting this way thank you yeah it's connecting this way thank you yeah it's so good to see I love the beard I was so good to see I love the beard I was so good to see I love the beard I was commenting earlier that's a great commenting earlier that's a great commenting earlier that's a great addition to it's like kind of Duck addition to it's like kind of Duck addition to it's like kind of Duck Dynasty meets Amish World Amish that's Dynasty meets Amish World Amish that's Dynasty meets Amish World Amish that's right right I'm going with the Amish right right I'm going with the Amish right right I'm going with the Amish Santa look for the SE nice that's great Santa look for the SE nice that's great Santa look for the SE nice that's great good well BR why don't we start with you good well BR why don't we start with you good well BR why don't we start with you kind of telling us a little bit of the kind of telling us a little bit of the kind of telling us a little bit of the meeting house story kind of give us an meeting house story kind of give us an meeting house story kind of give us an overview of who is the meeting house overview of who is the meeting house overview of who is the meeting house sure in fact even the name the meeting sure in fact even the name the meeting sure in fact even the name the meeting house speaks to Our Roots we're an house speaks to Our Roots we're an house speaks to Our Roots we're an anabaptist church so we come out of that anabaptist church so we come out of that anabaptist church so we come out of that menite Amish background and Menan night menite Amish background and Menan night menite Amish background and Menan night churches will still call their buildings churches will still call their buildings churches will still call their buildings where they meet in meeting houses so where they meet in meeting houses so where they meet in meeting houses so we're kind of pulling out of Our Roots we're kind of pulling out of Our Roots we're kind of pulling out of Our Roots but we're a contemporary version of an but we're a contemporary version of an but we're a contemporary version of an anabaptist movement anabaptism focuses anabaptist movement anabaptism focuses anabaptist movement anabaptism focuses on the Simplicity of Jesus the U on the Simplicity of Jesus the U on the Simplicity of Jesus the U cryistal cryistal cryistal approach to scripture just focus on approach to scripture just focus on approach to scripture just focus on Jesus read what he said to do and live

Jesus read what he said to do and live Jesus read what he said to do and live it out um Simplicity when it comes to it out um Simplicity when it comes to it out um Simplicity when it comes to things like materialism focus on things like materialism focus on things like materialism focus on community you know the barn raising community you know the barn raising community you know the barn raising mentality family we take those kinds of mentality family we take those kinds of mentality family we take those kinds of principles and we're a repentant version principles and we're a repentant version principles and we're a repentant version of that because anabaptists have really of that because anabaptists have really of that because anabaptists have really in North America anyway become in North America anyway become in North America anyway become legalistic about it and so they say live legalistic about it and so they say live legalistic about it and so they say live simply but then they create a rule simply but then they create a rule simply but then they create a rule around that that says we won't own cars around that that says we won't own cars around that that says we won't own cars or we'll all have the same kind of or we'll all have the same kind of or we'll all have the same kind of wardrobe uh we'll all look identical wardrobe uh we'll all look identical wardrobe uh we'll all look identical then we won't compete with our worldly then we won't compete with our worldly then we won't compete with our worldly possessions and appearances so we take possessions and appearances so we take possessions and appearances so we take away the legalism we repent of the away the legalism we repent of the away the legalism we repent of the legalism now we're just left with Jesus legalism now we're just left with Jesus legalism now we're just left with Jesus and his teachings and we say what does and his teachings and we say what does and his teachings and we say what does that look like when we live out the that look like when we live out the that look like when we live out the principle rather than the precept rather principle rather than the precept rather principle rather than the precept rather than the letter of the law what does the than the letter of the law what does the than the letter of the law what does the spirit of the these principles look like spirit of the these principles look like spirit of the these principles look like lived out so that's our background and lived out so that's our background and lived out so that's our background and we've been a growing uh church that has we've been a growing uh church that has we've been a growing uh church that has cared a lot about evangelism something cared a lot about evangelism something cared a lot about evangelism something that anabaptists traditionally have that anabaptists traditionally have that anabaptists traditionally have ceased to do because we were too busy ceased to do because we were too busy ceased to do because we were too busy running from persecution we hunkered running from persecution we hunkered running from persecution we hunkered down in you know on a farming community down in you know on a farming community down in you know on a farming community and said let's hope nobody notices us and said let's hope nobody notices us and said let's hope nobody notices us right and uh so oh in the history of right and uh so oh in the history of right and uh so oh in the history of anabaptist we forgot to we forgot about anabaptist we forgot to we forgot about anabaptist we forgot to we forgot about the Great Commission really and so we're the Great Commission really and so we're the Great Commission really and so we're a repentant version of that as well a repentant version of that as well a repentant version of that as well saying what does it look like for us to saying what does it look like for us to saying what does it look like for us to really care about bringing people into a really care about bringing people into a really care about bringing people into a position where they can be introduced to position where they can be introduced to position where they can be introduced to the Gospel of Jesus and um and through the Gospel of Jesus and um and through the Gospel of Jesus and um and through that we've grown and now we We've Ended that we've grown and now we We've Ended that we've grown and now we We've Ended up becoming multi-site on top of that up becoming multi-site on top of that up becoming multi-site on top of that and so we've got 15 different sites and and so we've got 15 different sites and and so we've got 15 different sites and a few thousand people I guess between a few thousand people I guess between a few thousand people I guess between five and 6 thousand people show up on a five and 6 thousand people show up on a five and 6 thousand people show up on a Sunday spread across the sites and um Sunday spread across the sites and um Sunday spread across the sites and um and we're it seems like every couple of and we're it seems like every couple of and we're it seems like every couple of years years we're we're Reinventing How years years we're we're Reinventing How years years we're we're Reinventing How We Do church just to adjust to changing

We Do church just to adjust to changing We Do church just to adjust to changing numbers and Changing Times so it's a fun numbers and Changing Times so it's a fun numbers and Changing Times so it's a fun ride yeah one of the things I love about ride yeah one of the things I love about ride yeah one of the things I love about the meeting house about the community uh the meeting house about the community uh the meeting house about the community uh there is in a lot of ways you seem like there is in a lot of ways you seem like there is in a lot of ways you seem like a um you know you hold a bunch of a um you know you hold a bunch of a um you know you hold a bunch of tensions a bunch of kind of dichotomies tensions a bunch of kind of dichotomies tensions a bunch of kind of dichotomies that you know a lot of times if you that you know a lot of times if you that you know a lot of times if you would think of an anabaptist Church would think of an anabaptist Church would think of an anabaptist Church you'd think maybe menite um but that if you'd think maybe menite um but that if you'd think maybe menite um but that if you were to walk into your services on a you were to walk into your services on a you were to walk into your services on a Sunday morning there you know in Sunday morning there you know in Sunday morning there you know in Oakville they don't feel very Menan Oakville they don't feel very Menan Oakville they don't feel very Menan night you know other high energy music night you know other high energy music night you know other high energy music you know you know maybe movie clips or you know you know maybe movie clips or you know you know maybe movie clips or something from The Walking Dead Or you something from The Walking Dead Or you something from The Walking Dead Or you know it's it's this it's this know it's it's this it's this know it's it's this it's this interesting um you know kind of cultural interesting um you know kind of cultural interesting um you know kind of cultural you know millu tell me about that it's you know millu tell me about that it's you know millu tell me about that it's very true and you know Jesus talked very true and you know Jesus talked very true and you know Jesus talked about new wine skins replacing the old about new wine skins replacing the old about new wine skins replacing the old wine skins and one of the things that he wine skins and one of the things that he wine skins and one of the things that he doesn't go into detail in the analogy doesn't go into detail in the analogy doesn't go into detail in the analogy but we know it's embedded in the analogy but we know it's embedded in the analogy but we know it's embedded in the analogy is that a new wine skin is soft it's is that a new wine skin is soft it's is that a new wine skin is soft it's Supple and it's open to change it can Supple and it's open to change it can Supple and it's open to change it can expand old wine Skins are brittle and so expand old wine Skins are brittle and so expand old wine Skins are brittle and so we really want to be a new wies skin we really want to be a new wies skin we really want to be a new wies skin Community which says what does it mean Community which says what does it mean Community which says what does it mean to change our style our approach be open to change our style our approach be open to change our style our approach be open to Innovation be open to technology and to Innovation be open to technology and to Innovation be open to technology and at the same time who we are doesn't have at the same time who we are doesn't have at the same time who we are doesn't have to compromise with with Society with to compromise with with Society with to compromise with with Society with culture we can speak the language of culture we can speak the language of culture we can speak the language of culture use the technology of culture culture use the technology of culture culture use the technology of culture and still be on point with what we think and still be on point with what we think and still be on point with what we think is an important message so our wines is an important message so our wines is an important message so our wines skin should always be changing we think skin should always be changing we think skin should always be changing we think and be open to change and we don't want and be open to change and we don't want and be open to change and we don't want to be legalistic about it so we've to be legalistic about it so we've to be legalistic about it so we've repented of that and uh so yeah when you repented of that and uh so yeah when you repented of that and uh so yeah when you come and hang out with us it may it may come and hang out with us it may it may come and hang out with us it may it may I love being in the ministry of busting

I love being in the ministry of busting I love being in the ministry of busting up people's expectations keeps them kind up people's expectations keeps them kind up people's expectations keeps them kind of unsettled what's going on here and I of unsettled what's going on here and I of unsettled what's going on here and I think that then prepares us to say let's think that then prepares us to say let's think that then prepares us to say let's take a fresh look at Jesus together well take a fresh look at Jesus together well take a fresh look at Jesus together well appreciate that I wonder if kind of appreciate that I wonder if kind of appreciate that I wonder if kind of digging a little bit deeper into that digging a little bit deeper into that digging a little bit deeper into that you know thinking about Jesus and about you know thinking about Jesus and about you know thinking about Jesus and about his approach to leadership um you know his approach to leadership um you know his approach to leadership um you know is are there things that you see in his is are there things that you see in his is are there things that you see in his leadership that maybe um you know as as leadership that maybe um you know as as leadership that maybe um you know as as people who are trying to reach folks people who are trying to reach folks people who are trying to reach folks with the message of Jesus that we maybe with the message of Jesus that we maybe with the message of Jesus that we maybe sometimes forget or we sometimes leave sometimes forget or we sometimes leave sometimes forget or we sometimes leave behind you know what are some of those behind you know what are some of those behind you know what are some of those things that that you think you know that things that that you think you know that things that that you think you know that we maybe sometimes ignore when we we we maybe sometimes ignore when we we we maybe sometimes ignore when we we think about traditional leadership I think about traditional leadership I think about traditional leadership I guess first of all what's important to guess first of all what's important to guess first of all what's important to note is that when we're talking about note is that when we're talking about note is that when we're talking about Jesus there are things that we are to Jesus there are things that we are to Jesus there are things that we are to emulate and things that we are to allow emulate and things that we are to allow emulate and things that we are to allow to remain exclusively part of his to remain exclusively part of his to remain exclusively part of his self-de right so that we don't just say self-de right so that we don't just say self-de right so that we don't just say whatever did Jesus does we do Jesus whatever did Jesus does we do Jesus whatever did Jesus does we do Jesus receives worship from people we receives worship from people we receives worship from people we shouldn't do that right Jesus runs away shouldn't do that right Jesus runs away shouldn't do that right Jesus runs away from his parents when he's 12 and says from his parents when he's 12 and says from his parents when he's 12 and says I'm hanging out with my real parent we I'm hanging out with my real parent we I'm hanging out with my real parent we shouldn't teach our 12 years old our 12y shouldn't teach our 12 years old our 12y shouldn't teach our 12 years old our 12y olds to do that so there's certain olds to do that so there's certain olds to do that so there's certain things when we look at the Life of things when we look at the Life of things when we look at the Life of Christ we say he is showing us what God Christ we say he is showing us what God Christ we say he is showing us what God looks like our response is simply to looks like our response is simply to looks like our response is simply to worship not to say I'm going to also do worship not to say I'm going to also do worship not to say I'm going to also do the same thing so there are certain we the same thing so there are certain we the same thing so there are certain we have to I think Case by K say what is he have to I think Case by K say what is he have to I think Case by K say what is he is he setting us an example here and is he setting us an example here and is he setting us an example here and he'll usually teach on it if he's he'll usually teach on it if he's he'll usually teach on it if he's setting us an example which is really setting us an example which is really setting us an example which is really wonderful he'll teach clearly on it then wonderful he'll teach clearly on it then wonderful he'll teach clearly on it then he'll model it in his life he will teach he'll model it in his life he will teach he'll model it in his life he will teach forgiveness and love of our enemies then forgiveness and love of our enemies then forgiveness and love of our enemies then you watch his life and he will model you watch his life and he will model you watch his life and he will model model it so we know that's what we model it so we know that's what we model it so we know that's what we should be doing then other times he sits should be doing then other times he sits should be doing then other times he sits in the seat of judgment you pulls out in the seat of judgment you pulls out in the seat of judgment you pulls out the Whip and he judges the temple and he

the Whip and he judges the temple and he the Whip and he judges the temple and he those times he never says come on those times he never says come on those times he never says come on disciples let's go boys we're going to disciples let's go boys we're going to disciples let's go boys we're going to do this together I'm now teaching you do this together I'm now teaching you do this together I'm now teaching you what you should go and do he's sitting what you should go and do he's sitting what you should go and do he's sitting in the seat of judgment which is the in the seat of judgment which is the in the seat of judgment which is the seat of God and so we we step back and seat of God and so we we step back and seat of God and so we we step back and we watch and we observe and we worship we watch and we observe and we worship we watch and we observe and we worship and so I think that's the first maneuver and so I think that's the first maneuver and so I think that's the first maneuver of interpretation we need to do when we of interpretation we need to do when we of interpretation we need to do when we look at the life and the teachings of look at the life and the teachings of look at the life and the teachings of Jesus and he makes that clear for us as Jesus and he makes that clear for us as Jesus and he makes that clear for us as long as we're open to to um taking note long as we're open to to um taking note long as we're open to to um taking note is he leading an example or is he is he leading an example or is he is he leading an example or is he showing us God and then when he does showing us God and then when he does showing us God and then when he does call us into following into his example call us into following into his example call us into following into his example there is this call to gentleness and to there is this call to gentleness and to there is this call to gentleness and to Mercy and to ongoing forgiveness and uh Mercy and to ongoing forgiveness and uh Mercy and to ongoing forgiveness and uh and there's just a beautiful Grace you and there's just a beautiful Grace you and there's just a beautiful Grace you know the dying to self not saying these know the dying to self not saying these know the dying to self not saying these are my rights this is what I need but are my rights this is what I need but are my rights this is what I need but the picking up of the Cross and the picking up of the Cross and the picking up of the Cross and following him uh the love of enemies it following him uh the love of enemies it following him uh the love of enemies it those people who are really jazzed on those people who are really jazzed on those people who are really jazzed on Jesus within our culture should have a Jesus within our culture should have a Jesus within our culture should have a reputation on the street of being gentle reputation on the street of being gentle reputation on the street of being gentle graceful merciful very graceful merciful very graceful merciful very embracing and that's just not often our embracing and that's just not often our embracing and that's just not often our rep on the street if you ask what do you rep on the street if you ask what do you rep on the street if you ask what do you think about people who are really into think about people who are really into think about people who are really into Jesus they don't they should be able to Jesus they don't they should be able to Jesus they don't they should be able to say well I don't know if I agree with say well I don't know if I agree with say well I don't know if I agree with them or not but I'll tell you this them or not but I'll tell you this them or not but I'll tell you this whenever more of them move into our whenever more of them move into our whenever more of them move into our community or they start one of these community or they start one of these community or they start one of these things called a church or they start things called a church or they start things called a church or they start Gathering people around I'm so excited Gathering people around I'm so excited Gathering people around I'm so excited because they just bless us and they're because they just bless us and they're because they just bless us and they're so sweet and loving and compassionate so sweet and loving and compassionate so sweet and loving and compassionate that's not our rep but no absolutely you that's not our rep but no absolutely you that's not our rep but no absolutely you know and we just switch those that first know and we just switch those that first know and we just switch those that first principle around and we say hey Jesus principle around and we say hey Jesus principle around and we say hey Jesus was tough and he judged and he uh and was tough and he judged and he uh and was tough and he judged and he uh and then we say that's what we should do

then we say that's what we should do then we say that's what we should do that when you just switch that around that when you just switch that around that when you just switch that around we're actually sitting oursel in the we're actually sitting oursel in the we're actually sitting oursel in the seat of God and we become the judges of seat of God and we become the judges of seat of God and we become the judges of culture judges of society we think that culture judges of society we think that culture judges of society we think that anger becomes the emotion of Holiness anger becomes the emotion of Holiness anger becomes the emotion of Holiness which is which is the the word or in which is which is the the word or in which is which is the the word or in Greek when it's used of God is always Greek when it's used of God is always Greek when it's used of God is always used righteously and when it's used of used righteously and when it's used of used righteously and when it's used of humans we're always cautioned against it humans we're always cautioned against it humans we're always cautioned against it it's the same word it gets translated it's the same word it gets translated it's the same word it gets translated wrath when it's talking about God and wrath when it's talking about God and wrath when it's talking about God and God's Wrath and when it's talks about us God's Wrath and when it's talks about us God's Wrath and when it's talks about us in Old translations it would still say in Old translations it would still say in Old translations it would still say wrath that's why wrath is one of the wrath that's why wrath is one of the wrath that's why wrath is one of the seven deadly sins back in Old Catholic seven deadly sins back in Old Catholic seven deadly sins back in Old Catholic tradition but usually that gets tradition but usually that gets tradition but usually that gets translated anger when it's it's the same translated anger when it's it's the same translated anger when it's it's the same word you say well why when it's talking word you say well why when it's talking word you say well why when it's talking about God is it not a sin and when it about God is it not a sin and when it about God is it not a sin and when it talks about in human terms there's a lot talks about in human terms there's a lot talks about in human terms there's a lot of caution at very at the very least of caution at very at the very least of caution at very at the very least surrounding it and that's because anger surrounding it and that's because anger surrounding it and that's because anger is the emotion associated with judgment is the emotion associated with judgment is the emotion associated with judgment that is God's seat that is the driver's that is God's seat that is the driver's that is God's seat that is the driver's seat that is the that is what Jesus seat that is the that is what Jesus seat that is the that is what Jesus occupies and so yes he can display his occupies and so yes he can display his occupies and so yes he can display his wrath but that's one of those areas wrath but that's one of those areas wrath but that's one of those areas where we don't come along and say watch where we don't come along and say watch where we don't come along and say watch us condemn the world with you Jesus and us condemn the world with you Jesus and us condemn the world with you Jesus and then we'll prove to everyone that we're then we'll prove to everyone that we're then we'll prove to everyone that we're holy I think that's one of the key holy I think that's one of the key holy I think that's one of the key lessons that we as Evangelical lessons that we as Evangelical lessons that we as Evangelical Christians in the west need to unlearn Christians in the west need to unlearn Christians in the west need to unlearn is that anger is not the emotion that is that anger is not the emotion that is that anger is not the emotion that will help us display our Holiness oh man will help us display our Holiness oh man will help us display our Holiness oh man there's a lot to unpack there um you there's a lot to unpack there um you there's a lot to unpack there um you know one of the things I appreciate know one of the things I appreciate know one of the things I appreciate about what you said is my my daughter's about what you said is my my daughter's about what you said is my my daughter's turned she's 14 now and and she's like turned she's 14 now and and she's like turned she's 14 now and and she's like big personality and it's interesting big personality and it's interesting big personality and it's interesting because at school everyone interprets because at school everyone interprets because at school everyone interprets that as she's a leader because she can that as she's a leader because she can that as she's a leader because she can get up and make a big Ruckus and get get up and make a big Ruckus and get get up and make a big Ruckus and get everybody to follow her um and you know everybody to follow her um and you know everybody to follow her um and you know it's hard to try to push uh some deeper

it's hard to try to push uh some deeper it's hard to try to push uh some deeper character um values here and I love that character um values here and I love that character um values here and I love that you're calling out gentleness you're calling out gentleness you're calling out gentleness particularly in leadership now when you particularly in leadership now when you particularly in leadership now when you think about leading in your church I'm think about leading in your church I'm think about leading in your church I'm sure there must be times where you sure there must be times where you sure there must be times where you frankly do want to be angry things you frankly do want to be angry things you frankly do want to be angry things you know upset you so what does that look know upset you so what does that look know upset you so what does that look like for you as you lead how do you lead like for you as you lead how do you lead like for you as you lead how do you lead out of gentleness uh with your people out of gentleness uh with your people out of gentleness uh with your people it's true it's something that we do have it's true it's something that we do have it's true it's something that we do have to model that I I I think for those of to model that I I I think for those of to model that I I I think for those of us who are in leadership and those of us us who are in leadership and those of us us who are in leadership and those of us who are communicating leaders that is who are communicating leaders that is who are communicating leaders that is we're not only leading behind the scenes we're not only leading behind the scenes we're not only leading behind the scenes but we're standing up and modeling but we're standing up and modeling but we're standing up and modeling something here's the challenge for us is something here's the challenge for us is something here's the challenge for us is that the fruit of the spirit are not that the fruit of the spirit are not that the fruit of the spirit are not suggestions for only certain kinds of suggestions for only certain kinds of suggestions for only certain kinds of people certain personality types or people certain personality types or people certain personality types or certain behind the scenes Christians certain behind the scenes Christians certain behind the scenes Christians they are what the spirit's trying to do they are what the spirit's trying to do they are what the spirit's trying to do in our lives all the time and you could in our lives all the time and you could in our lives all the time and you could partner that with the characteristics of partner that with the characteristics of partner that with the characteristics of love being longsuffering Etc in 1 love being longsuffering Etc in 1 love being longsuffering Etc in 1 Corinthians 13 and you have a really Corinthians 13 and you have a really Corinthians 13 and you have a really fully orbed understanding of what the fully orbed understanding of what the fully orbed understanding of what the spirit is trying to breathe into our spirit is trying to breathe into our spirit is trying to breathe into our lives all the time and what is lives all the time and what is lives all the time and what is conspicuously absent from the list at conspicuously absent from the list at conspicuously absent from the list at any time is anger or even just those any time is anger or even just those any time is anger or even just those generic terms of like I'm passionate I'm generic terms of like I'm passionate I'm generic terms of like I'm passionate I'm excited I'm on point I'm on fire right excited I'm on point I'm on fire right excited I'm on point I'm on fire right which we some sometimes use as which we some sometimes use as which we some sometimes use as euphemisms for I'm a bully right and and euphemisms for I'm a bully right and and euphemisms for I'm a bully right and and not necessarily I mean a lot of a lot of not necessarily I mean a lot of a lot of not necessarily I mean a lot of a lot of people listening you say well I want to people listening you say well I want to people listening you say well I want to be passionate not fire which is great be passionate not fire which is great be passionate not fire which is great right but but but be cautious that we're right but but but be cautious that we're right but but but be cautious that we're not hiding behind euphemisms for just not hiding behind euphemisms for just not hiding behind euphemisms for just allowing a kind of judgmental Spirit or allowing a kind of judgmental Spirit or allowing a kind of judgmental Spirit or anger to arise and here's the challenge anger to arise and here's the challenge anger to arise and here's the challenge for us for those of us who are in point for us for those of us who are in point for us for those of us who are in point leadership and who are communicating how leadership and who are communicating how leadership and who are communicating how can we show an excitement and a Zeal for can we show an excitement and a Zeal for can we show an excitement and a Zeal for truth while at the same time we are

truth while at the same time we are truth while at the same time we are modeling the very same fruit of the modeling the very same fruit of the modeling the very same fruit of the spirit can I teach with a conviction spirit can I teach with a conviction spirit can I teach with a conviction that at the same time is modeling peace that at the same time is modeling peace that at the same time is modeling peace and patience and kindness and and and patience and kindness and and and patience and kindness and and gentleness one of the fruit of the gentleness one of the fruit of the gentleness one of the fruit of the spirit I have to challenge myself and spirit I have to challenge myself and spirit I have to challenge myself and not give myself an easy out I have to not give myself an easy out I have to not give myself an easy out I have to say I need to speak on Sunday morning in say I need to speak on Sunday morning in say I need to speak on Sunday morning in a persuasive convicting enlightening and a persuasive convicting enlightening and a persuasive convicting enlightening and and and engaging way that is also people and and engaging way that is also people and and engaging way that is also people can say I see the gentleness in that and can say I see the gentleness in that and can say I see the gentleness in that and if they can't they're missing I'm not if they can't they're missing I'm not if they can't they're missing I'm not doing my job allowing the fruit of the doing my job allowing the fruit of the doing my job allowing the fruit of the spirit to engage every area of my life spirit to engage every area of my life spirit to engage every area of my life which is really challenging for us which is really challenging for us which is really challenging for us because we live in a culture where the because we live in a culture where the because we live in a culture where the tone of voice that gets people rallied tone of voice that gets people rallied tone of voice that gets people rallied around Amen brother amen yes and and as around Amen brother amen yes and and as around Amen brother amen yes and and as we as we uh push toward that I think we as we uh push toward that I think we as we uh push toward that I think we're just being too too easy on we're just being too too easy on we're just being too too easy on ourselves and buying into more of a ourselves and buying into more of a ourselves and buying into more of a cultural manifestation of what uh what cultural manifestation of what uh what cultural manifestation of what uh what passion should look like passion also passion should look like passion also passion should look like passion also needs to look like the fruit of the needs to look like the fruit of the needs to look like the fruit of the spirit so it's just worth spending time spirit so it's just worth spending time spirit so it's just worth spending time marinating in as Leaders we are modeling marinating in as Leaders we are modeling marinating in as Leaders we are modeling something to our people and they go into something to our people and they go into something to our people and they go into their conversations with others and they their conversations with others and they their conversations with others and they lack gentleness they lack peace and lack gentleness they lack peace and lack gentleness they lack peace and patience and kindness in their tone of patience and kindness in their tone of patience and kindness in their tone of voice and in their posture and in their voice and in their posture and in their voice and in their posture and in their approach they're getting that from us approach they're getting that from us approach they're getting that from us absolutely um you know one of the things absolutely um you know one of the things absolutely um you know one of the things for people who are listening in who for people who are listening in who for people who are listening in who don't know buxy in his teaching and he don't know buxy in his teaching and he don't know buxy in his teaching and he he he's probably going to stop me from he he's probably going to stop me from he he's probably going to stop me from saying this but I really do think Brook saying this but I really do think Brook saying this but I really do think Brook is one of the best communicators in is one of the best communicators in is one of the best communicators in North America he really is one of those North America he really is one of those North America he really is one of those people who just does I think an people who just does I think an people who just does I think an incredible job communicating clearly incredible job communicating clearly incredible job communicating clearly about the message of Jesus and um you

about the message of Jesus and um you about the message of Jesus and um you know give us a bit of coaching now you know give us a bit of coaching now you know give us a bit of coaching now you just came through a series about Islam just came through a series about Islam just came through a series about Islam yes um and in that series that's a yes um and in that series that's a yes um and in that series that's a that's a topic um that's a um an area of that's a topic um that's a um an area of that's a topic um that's a um an area of discussion where it seems like the best discussion where it seems like the best discussion where it seems like the best Christians get all angry about it um how Christians get all angry about it um how Christians get all angry about it um how did you uh approach that from a gentle did you uh approach that from a gentle did you uh approach that from a gentle you know point of view sure one of the you know point of view sure one of the you know point of view sure one of the things that helps me on many of these things that helps me on many of these things that helps me on many of these potentially divisive topics other potentially divisive topics other potentially divisive topics other religions um violence um same-sex religions um violence um same-sex religions um violence um same-sex marriage I mean there's all kinds of marriage I mean there's all kinds of marriage I mean there's all kinds of areas where we can draw our battle lines areas where we can draw our battle lines areas where we can draw our battle lines and become argumentative in a way that and become argumentative in a way that and become argumentative in a way that is unhealthy uh one of the things that is unhealthy uh one of the things that is unhealthy uh one of the things that helps me approach this is understanding helps me approach this is understanding helps me approach this is understanding that there is a marked difference that there is a marked difference that there is a marked difference between acceptance and between acceptance and between acceptance and agreement and I think when Christians do agreement and I think when Christians do agreement and I think when Christians do not understand the difference between not understand the difference between not understand the difference between accept AC and agreement they will make accept AC and agreement they will make accept AC and agreement they will make many mistakes in how they approach a many mistakes in how they approach a many mistakes in how they approach a topic once we see acceptance and topic once we see acceptance and topic once we see acceptance and agreement as a meshed then I cannot I agreement as a meshed then I cannot I agreement as a meshed then I cannot I cannot even allow myself to be seen as cannot even allow myself to be seen as cannot even allow myself to be seen as fully accepting you because I'm afraid fully accepting you because I'm afraid fully accepting you because I'm afraid that as I show a warm warmth and that as I show a warm warmth and that as I show a warm warmth and acceptance that will be misinterpreted acceptance that will be misinterpreted acceptance that will be misinterpreted as agreement and I don't want to be seen as agreement and I don't want to be seen as agreement and I don't want to be seen as agreeing with you so I have to pull as agreeing with you so I have to pull as agreeing with you so I have to pull back on any social cues that will back on any social cues that will back on any social cues that will suggest I accept you and so the angry suggest I accept you and so the angry suggest I accept you and so the angry comes out in the sense of Truth and comes out in the sense of Truth and comes out in the sense of Truth and taking the stand which uh which we feel taking the stand which uh which we feel taking the stand which uh which we feel we need to do in order to be very clear we need to do in order to be very clear we need to do in order to be very clear well I don't want to be unclear in any well I don't want to be unclear in any well I don't want to be unclear in any way but of course Jesus understood that way but of course Jesus understood that way but of course Jesus understood that acceptance and agreement were very acceptance and agreement were very acceptance and agreement were very different and he was so accepting of

different and he was so accepting of different and he was so accepting of people that it did become confusing to people that it did become confusing to people that it did become confusing to who it became confusing to the religious who it became confusing to the religious who it became confusing to the religious conservatives of his day they wanted to conservatives of his day they wanted to conservatives of his day they wanted to clear lines and so he was so accepting a clear lines and so he was so accepting a clear lines and so he was so accepting a people they would say you are a tax people they would say you are a tax people they would say you are a tax collector you're a glutton or you're a collector you're a glutton or you're a collector you're a glutton or you're a friend of these people you're a wine friend of these people you're a wine friend of these people you're a wine Biber and a glutton you're a friend of Biber and a glutton you're a friend of Biber and a glutton you're a friend of tax collectors You Are so accepting that tax collectors You Are so accepting that tax collectors You Are so accepting that you're blurring the lines and and so I I you're blurring the lines and and so I I you're blurring the lines and and so I I think our sense of acceptance should be think our sense of acceptance should be think our sense of acceptance should be so uh so extremely defined by the so uh so extremely defined by the so uh so extremely defined by the character of Christ that yes for the character of Christ that yes for the character of Christ that yes for the religious conservative they're made to religious conservative they're made to religious conservative they're made to be uneasy and yet in no way are we be uneasy and yet in no way are we be uneasy and yet in no way are we compromising truth and when we're compromising truth and when we're compromising truth and when we're starting to make religious conservatives starting to make religious conservatives starting to make religious conservatives uh uneasy we're probably starting to uh uneasy we're probably starting to uh uneasy we're probably starting to live like Jesus are you giving us a bit live like Jesus are you giving us a bit live like Jesus are you giving us a bit of insight did you must have got some of insight did you must have got some of insight did you must have got some interesting feedback from that series if interesting feedback from that series if interesting feedback from that series if people haven't listened to that series people haven't listened to that series people haven't listened to that series uh there might be some you know might uh there might be some you know might uh there might be some you know might have made people uncomfortable because have made people uncomfortable because have made people uncomfortable because you're trying to approach the topic um I you're trying to approach the topic um I you're trying to approach the topic um I think in a thoughtful manner in a way think in a thoughtful manner in a way think in a thoughtful manner in a way that honors Jesus um but maybe not that honors Jesus um but maybe not that honors Jesus um but maybe not necessarily A you know a typical necessarily A you know a typical necessarily A you know a typical approach sure yes and then we're also approach sure yes and then we're also approach sure yes and then we're also pacifist so for some people that also pacifist so for some people that also pacifist so for some people that also adds a political Dimension are you adds a political Dimension are you adds a political Dimension are you criticizing our government or telling us criticizing our government or telling us criticizing our government or telling us you know which we're not so U so you you know which we're not so U so you you know which we're not so U so you have to listen to the series but we it's have to listen to the series but we it's have to listen to the series but we it's called Isis Islam and Jesus and it's called Isis Islam and Jesus and it's called Isis Islam and Jesus and it's true we would get extreme reactions for true we would get extreme reactions for true we would get extreme reactions for some people whenever we approach a topic some people whenever we approach a topic some people whenever we approach a topic like this or samesex marriage or like this or samesex marriage or like this or samesex marriage or anything else divisive they'll say you anything else divisive they'll say you anything else divisive they'll say you weren't clear enough and so I will go weren't clear enough and so I will go weren't clear enough and so I will go walk through the message and I will say walk through the message and I will say walk through the message and I will say look at the scriptures we looked at look look at the scriptures we looked at look look at the scriptures we looked at look at how we called people to Jesus as Lord at how we called people to Jesus as Lord at how we called people to Jesus as Lord look at how we and actually and even an look at how we and actually and even an look at how we and actually and even an outline in print we handed out outline in print we handed out outline in print we handed out completely clear where we stand and I

completely clear where we stand and I completely clear where we stand and I and I will say to them how did you not and I will say to them how did you not and I will say to them how did you not hear that what binders did you have on hear that what binders did you have on hear that what binders did you have on right and what it comes down to if we right and what it comes down to if we right and what it comes down to if we have the time to have a coffee and talk have the time to have a coffee and talk have the time to have a coffee and talk it through is I didn't hear the tone I it through is I didn't hear the tone I it through is I didn't hear the tone I didn't actually hear the tone that tells didn't actually hear the tone that tells didn't actually hear the tone that tells me how wrong you think they are yes me how wrong you think they are yes me how wrong you think they are yes you're and and so when they hear a happy you're and and so when they hear a happy you're and and so when they hear a happy tone and a gentleness while we're also tone and a gentleness while we're also tone and a gentleness while we're also saying here's where we stand and what we saying here's where we stand and what we saying here's where we stand and what we think is wrong and they they it it uh think is wrong and they they it it uh think is wrong and they they it it uh for religious people who are live within for religious people who are live within for religious people who are live within a tradition of anger equals Holiness a tradition of anger equals Holiness a tradition of anger equals Holiness equals truth they often it throws them equals truth they often it throws them equals truth they often it throws them off but that they need to be thrown off off but that they need to be thrown off off but that they need to be thrown off unfortunately non-christians then will unfortunately non-christians then will unfortunately non-christians then will start to learn how to have disagreements start to learn how to have disagreements start to learn how to have disagreements that are amicable and friendly than that are amicable and friendly than that are amicable and friendly than Christians will because Christians Christians will because Christians Christians will because Christians default to anger as Holiness quicker default to anger as Holiness quicker default to anger as Holiness quicker than our non-Christian friends that's than our non-Christian friends that's than our non-Christian friends that's not the way should be absolutely all not the way should be absolutely all not the way should be absolutely all right well just one kind of last uh line right well just one kind of last uh line right well just one kind of last uh line of question before we let you go I know of question before we let you go I know of question before we let you go I know you're a busy guy um you know Canada is you're a busy guy um you know Canada is you're a busy guy um you know Canada is for folks that don't know Canada is um for folks that don't know Canada is um for folks that don't know Canada is um you know wildly unchurched uh more so you know wildly unchurched uh more so you know wildly unchurched uh more so than uh you know than down south and than uh you know than down south and than uh you know than down south and South of the Border how much do you South of the Border how much do you South of the Border how much do you think that you know the meeting House's think that you know the meeting House's think that you know the meeting House's appeal and approach um within that appeal and approach um within that appeal and approach um within that context which really is Bucking the context which really is Bucking the context which really is Bucking the trend you know to have 5,000 people show trend you know to have 5,000 people show trend you know to have 5,000 people show up at a at a church in a country where up at a at a church in a country where up at a at a church in a country where Maybe % of the population attend church Maybe % of the population attend church Maybe % of the population attend church is radical is you know is unknown how is radical is you know is unknown how is radical is you know is unknown how much of that do you think is connected much of that do you think is connected much of that do you think is connected to kind of your Core teaching and to kind of your Core teaching and to kind of your Core teaching and message the kind of anabaptist approach message the kind of anabaptist approach message the kind of anabaptist approach how much of that do you think is how much of that do you think is how much of that do you think is resonating you know with folks who are resonating you know with folks who are resonating you know with folks who are maybe haven't been connected to a church

maybe haven't been connected to a church maybe haven't been connected to a church in a while yeah well you know I would in a while yeah well you know I would in a while yeah well you know I would say that even for many of the people who say that even for many of the people who say that even for many of the people who are turned off of religion many of them are turned off of religion many of them are turned off of religion many of them still have a soft spot for Jesus they still have a soft spot for Jesus they still have a soft spot for Jesus they are open to learning about Jesus and if are open to learning about Jesus and if are open to learning about Jesus and if we can give them a safe place to come we can give them a safe place to come we can give them a safe place to come and ask questions so they feel they were and ask questions so they feel they were and ask questions so they feel they were not going to be coercive I mean we embed not going to be coercive I mean we embed not going to be coercive I mean we embed Q&A into our Sunday teaching even if we Q&A into our Sunday teaching even if we Q&A into our Sunday teaching even if we only have time for a couple of questions only have time for a couple of questions only have time for a couple of questions it symbolic value value is huge this is it symbolic value value is huge this is it symbolic value value is huge this is a place where you get to come and ask a place where you get to come and ask a place where you get to come and ask questions and we're not just going to questions and we're not just going to questions and we're not just going to shout at you but we want to engage you shout at you but we want to engage you shout at you but we want to engage you in in a conversational way so to create in in a conversational way so to create in in a conversational way so to create that safe space to come and begin to that safe space to come and begin to that safe space to come and begin to learn about Jesus uh that I think has learn about Jesus uh that I think has learn about Jesus uh that I think has still has great appeal even to many still has great appeal even to many still has great appeal even to many people who have long since given up people who have long since given up people who have long since given up church or even not sure if they believe church or even not sure if they believe church or even not sure if they believe in God Jesus is a historically in God Jesus is a historically in God Jesus is a historically significant figure no matter where you significant figure no matter where you significant figure no matter where you live land on the on the faith Spectrum live land on the on the faith Spectrum live land on the on the faith Spectrum so to give a place for people to just so to give a place for people to just so to give a place for people to just come and learn about him in a non-cs of come and learn about him in a non-cs of come and learn about him in a non-cs of way seems to really mean something to a way seems to really mean something to a way seems to really mean something to a lot of people and basically Canada is lot of people and basically Canada is lot of people and basically Canada is just America living 20 years in the just America living 20 years in the just America living 20 years in the future that's very true that's it yeah future that's very true that's it yeah future that's very true that's it yeah so I think that some sometimes when I go so I think that some sometimes when I go so I think that some sometimes when I go down to the States I I I feel like I down to the States I I I feel like I down to the States I I I feel like I time travel a little bitly speaking time travel a little bitly speaking time travel a little bitly speaking there is it's like oh this is probably there is it's like oh this is probably there is it's like oh this is probably what it was like in Canada in the 1950s what it was like in Canada in the 1950s what it was like in Canada in the 1950s or something I'm not sure in certain or something I'm not sure in certain or something I'm not sure in certain Pockets I know that in the states Pockets I know that in the states Pockets I know that in the states there's just such wide variety City and there's just such wide variety City and there's just such wide variety City and urban and state to state for sure but uh urban and state to state for sure but uh urban and state to state for sure but uh Canada is a little more uniform in in Canada is a little more uniform in in Canada is a little more uniform in in its just secularization we're kind of a its just secularization we're kind of a its just secularization we're kind of a blend of American and European culture blend of American and European culture blend of American and European culture comes to where we're at spiritually and comes to where we're at spiritually and comes to where we're at spiritually and and yet I I'm happy to say as a time and yet I I'm happy to say as a time and yet I I'm happy to say as a time traveler from the

traveler from the traveler from the future people will still have a soft future people will still have a soft future people will still have a soft spot to have a conversation about Jesus spot to have a conversation about Jesus spot to have a conversation about Jesus if that's what lead with front and if that's what lead with front and if that's what lead with front and center that would you know if we were center that would you know if we were center that would you know if we were non-believers and we were just talking non-believers and we were just talking non-believers and we were just talking about marketing from a secular point of about marketing from a secular point of about marketing from a secular point of view that would be a good tip for us view that would be a good tip for us view that would be a good tip for us just from a marketing point of view you just from a marketing point of view you just from a marketing point of view you should lead with Jesus what is should lead with Jesus what is should lead with Jesus what is fascinating though is as Christians fascinating though is as Christians fascinating though is as Christians that's what we should be doing that's we that's what we should be doing that's we that's what we should be doing that's we want to do so so we really have no want to do so so we really have no want to do so so we really have no excuse just keep on point and keep Jesus excuse just keep on point and keep Jesus excuse just keep on point and keep Jesus in the center nice thank you so much in the center nice thank you so much in the center nice thank you so much buxy I really appreciate your time today buxy I really appreciate your time today buxy I really appreciate your time today if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you or you know in touch with the meeting or you know in touch with the meeting or you know in touch with the meeting house how can they do that sure well for house how can they do that sure well for house how can they do that sure well for me it's easy a Twitter it's buxie if you me it's easy a Twitter it's buxie if you me it's easy a Twitter it's buxie if you got a name like buxy you might as well got a name like buxy you might as well got a name like buxy you might as well leverage it so it's just buxy my email leverage it so it's just buxy my email leverage it so it's just buxy my email is buxy bry.com you can look up bruy on is buxy bry.com you can look up bruy on is buxy bry.com you can look up bruy on faceb Facebook and uh so I'm easy to faceb Facebook and uh so I'm easy to faceb Facebook and uh so I'm easy to find and the Meetinghouse is just the find and the Meetinghouse is just the find and the Meetinghouse is just the Meetinghouse decom all one word the Meetinghouse decom all one word the Meetinghouse decom all one word the Meetinghouse decom and our sermons are Meetinghouse decom and our sermons are Meetinghouse decom and our sermons are there on iTunes and uh or you can get in there on iTunes and uh or you can get in there on iTunes and uh or you can get in touch with me for more information great touch with me for more information great touch with me for more information great thanks so much appreciate being on the thanks so much appreciate being on the thanks so much appreciate being on the show today Rich this is a privilege show today Rich this is a privilege show today Rich this is a privilege thanks man thank you thank you for thanks man thank you thank you for thanks man thank you thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary tocom and can sign up at 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what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast join us next week unseminary podcast join us next week unseminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught and taught and taught and Ary