Bruce Ammons on 500% More Second Time Guests Than The Average Church

ladies and gentlemen welcome to the ladies and gentlemen welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the host around these parts name is Rich the host around these parts name is Rich the host around these parts and I am so glad that you've decided uh and I am so glad that you've decided uh and I am so glad that you've decided uh to tune in I've been trying to get this to tune in I've been trying to get this to tune in I've been trying to get this interview done for uh for a couple times interview done for uh for a couple times interview done for uh for a couple times CU I really want to share uh this Bruce CU I really want to share uh this Bruce CU I really want to share uh this Bruce and I had some technical problems let's and I had some technical problems let's and I had some technical problems let's be honest I had technical problems last be honest I had technical problems last be honest I had technical problems last time we did this so Bruce Almond's with time we did this so Bruce Almond's with time we did this so Bruce Almond's with us today from Sugar Creek Baptist Church us today from Sugar Creek Baptist Church us today from Sugar Creek Baptist Church uh this is a fantastic church one of the uh this is a fantastic church one of the uh this is a fantastic church one of the fastest growing churches in the country fastest growing churches in the country fastest growing churches in the country uh today I want you to lean in because uh today I want you to lean in because uh today I want you to lean in because there's something about this church that there's something about this church that there's something about this church that I is unique that I'm really hoping every I is unique that I'm really hoping every I is unique that I'm really hoping every church can uh can learn from Bruce church can uh can learn from Bruce church can uh can learn from Bruce welcome to the show hey thanks Rich it's welcome to the show hey thanks Rich it's welcome to the show hey thanks Rich it's great to be here yeah no glad to have great to be here yeah no glad to have great to be here yeah no glad to have you uh why don't you tell us about Sugar you uh why don't you tell us about Sugar you uh why don't you tell us about Sugar Creek give us a sense of what people Creek give us a sense of what people Creek give us a sense of what people would experience this weekend and give would experience this weekend and give would experience this weekend and give us a bit of the story sure um if you us a bit of the story sure um if you us a bit of the story sure um if you come uh to our church this coming Sunday come uh to our church this coming Sunday come uh to our church this coming Sunday you would discover we have a uh Place you would discover we have a uh Place you would discover we have a uh Place reserved for first-time guests to park reserved for first-time guests to park reserved for first-time guests to park but outside of that you will find no but outside of that you will find no but outside of that you will find no parking anywhere um our church is so parking anywhere um our church is so parking anywhere um our church is so packed um we only have 13 acres and yet packed um we only have 13 acres and yet packed um we only have 13 acres and yet the church just for the last 40 years the church just for the last 40 years the church just for the last 40 years has continued to build and build and has continued to build and build and has continued to build and build and build and build and we built on parking build and build and we built on parking build and build and we built on parking lot after parking lot so we have we have lot after parking lot so we have we have lot after parking lot so we have we have no place to park uh but the places we do no place to park uh but the places we do no place to park uh but the places we do have are packed um we do have three uh

have are packed um we do have three uh have are packed um we do have three uh off-site parking locations and we have off-site parking locations and we have off-site parking locations and we have 14 shuttle buses that make this Loop uh 14 shuttle buses that make this Loop uh 14 shuttle buses that make this Loop uh over half of our attendees are shuttled over half of our attendees are shuttled over half of our attendees are shuttled in each Sunday morning that's over in each Sunday morning that's over in each Sunday morning that's over that's over 2,000 people we shuttle in that's over 2,000 people we shuttle in that's over 2,000 people we shuttle in from offsite um when you uh walk into from offsite um when you uh walk into from offsite um when you uh walk into our church you will discover that we are our church you will discover that we are our church you will discover that we are certainly ethnically diverse and certainly ethnically diverse and certainly ethnically diverse and possibly one of the most ethnically possibly one of the most ethnically possibly one of the most ethnically diverse churches in the the the country diverse churches in the the the country diverse churches in the the the country I don't know uh but but we have over 90 I don't know uh but but we have over 90 I don't know uh but but we have over 90 different countries who attend our different countries who attend our different countries who attend our churching and and of those people they churching and and of those people they churching and and of those people they speak 70 different languages wow so speak 70 different languages wow so speak 70 different languages wow so anyway it's it's a beautiful beautiful anyway it's it's a beautiful beautiful anyway it's it's a beautiful beautiful experience I can't now how do you get experience I can't now how do you get experience I can't now how do you get people to park I know that's not really people to park I know that's not really people to park I know that's not really what we're talking about today but how what we're talking about today but how what we're talking about today but how do you get people to do that I know a do you get people to do that I know a do you get people to do that I know a lot of churches struggle with the you lot of churches struggle with the you lot of churches struggle with the you know offside parking thing there must be know offside parking thing there must be know offside parking thing there must be a few things you've learned through that a few things you've learned through that a few things you've learned through that process well there are uh basically um process well there are uh basically um process well there are uh basically um our pastor our head Pastor I'm one of our pastor our head Pastor I'm one of our pastor our head Pastor I'm one of the Associates but our head Pastor makes the Associates but our head Pastor makes the Associates but our head Pastor makes a plea from the pulpit and just says hey a plea from the pulpit and just says hey a plea from the pulpit and just says hey would you be willing to to make a would you be willing to to make a would you be willing to to make a missional move for the kingdom of God missional move for the kingdom of God missional move for the kingdom of God right and we're not we're not we're not right and we're not we're not we're not right and we're not we're not we're not asking you to go to Africa we're just asking you to go to Africa we're just asking you to go to Africa we're just ask we're just asking you to park across ask we're just asking you to park across ask we're just asking you to park across the freeway yes and and there are some the freeway yes and and there are some the freeway yes and and there are some benefits to it um for example um you get benefits to it um for example um you get benefits to it um for example um you get dropped off at the front door of the dropped off at the front door of the dropped off at the front door of the church underneath uh a rain protected church underneath uh a rain protected church underneath uh a rain protected covering right um if you park on the covering right um if you park on the covering right um if you park on the regular parking lot you're just going to regular parking lot you're just going to regular parking lot you're just going to have to walk a long way in the rain yes have to walk a long way in the rain yes have to walk a long way in the rain yes now now if you park offsite you will now now if you park offsite you will now now if you park offsite you will have a short Trek as well to the canopy

have a short Trek as well to the canopy have a short Trek as well to the canopy yep where the shuttle bus picks you up yep where the shuttle bus picks you up yep where the shuttle bus picks you up but but bottom line our pastors asked but but bottom line our pastors asked but but bottom line our pastors asked our people they've responded well yeah our people they've responded well yeah our people they've responded well yeah um I do think that we're probably um I do think that we're probably um I do think that we're probably getting close to getting as many people getting close to getting as many people getting close to getting as many people as are willing right to park off site as are willing right to park off site as are willing right to park off site yeah yeah you know so there's a ceiling yeah yeah you know so there's a ceiling yeah yeah you know so there's a ceiling to that close well and that it's that to that close well and that it's that to that close well and that it's that alone is a fascinating story but the alone is a fascinating story but the alone is a fascinating story but the thing that caught my attention is really thing that caught my attention is really thing that caught my attention is really about returners at your church one of about returners at your church one of about returners at your church one of the things I've said and so many the things I've said and so many the things I've said and so many churches is the problem isn't so much churches is the problem isn't so much churches is the problem isn't so much getting guests it's getting them to getting guests it's getting them to getting guests it's getting them to stick and stay and there seems to be stick and stay and there seems to be stick and stay and there seems to be something happening at Sugar Creek that something happening at Sugar Creek that something happening at Sugar Creek that um you know that I want to make sure um you know that I want to make sure um you know that I want to make sure people know about can you give us a people know about can you give us a people know about can you give us a sense of that tell us a little bit about sense of that tell us a little bit about sense of that tell us a little bit about what happened particularly with return what happened particularly with return what happened particularly with return guests yes and I'm super excited because guests yes and I'm super excited because guests yes and I'm super excited because um this this is one of two things that I um this this is one of two things that I um this this is one of two things that I am most passionate about in church work am most passionate about in church work am most passionate about in church work and I'll tell you why uh when of The and I'll tell you why uh when of The and I'll tell you why uh when of The First Time guest comes to a church and First Time guest comes to a church and First Time guest comes to a church and I'm referring right now of a non uh I'm referring right now of a non uh I'm referring right now of a non uh Christ follower a non-Christian um most Christ follower a non-Christian um most Christ follower a non-Christian um most of those people do not receive Jesus and of those people do not receive Jesus and of those people do not receive Jesus and trust him on their first Sunday at a trust him on their first Sunday at a trust him on their first Sunday at a church um but if you can get them to church um but if you can get them to church um but if you can get them to return time and time and time again return time and time and time again return time and time and time again right A lot of these people even adults right A lot of these people even adults right A lot of these people even adults will trust Christ as their lord and will trust Christ as their lord and will trust Christ as their lord and savior and so I became burdened about savior and so I became burdened about savior and so I became burdened about this uh probably 15 years ago when I this uh probably 15 years ago when I this uh probably 15 years ago when I read read a book I don't even recall the read read a book I don't even recall the read read a book I don't even recall the name of it but it it quoted a stat that name of it but it it quoted a stat that name of it but it it quoted a stat that said only one in 10 firsttime guests said only one in 10 firsttime guests said only one in 10 firsttime guests ever return to your church again Y and ever return to your church again Y and ever return to your church again Y and so I have followed that um all these 15 so I have followed that um all these 15 so I have followed that um all these 15 years and that is still pretty typical

years and that is still pretty typical years and that is still pretty typical right for for most churches yep um when right for for most churches yep um when right for for most churches yep um when Sugar Creek contacted me about taking Sugar Creek contacted me about taking Sugar Creek contacted me about taking this position um I asked for some this position um I asked for some this position um I asked for some numbers I said I need to know how many numbers I said I need to know how many numbers I said I need to know how many first- time guests you're having for first- time guests you're having for first- time guests you're having for Sunday and I need to know how many of Sunday and I need to know how many of Sunday and I need to know how many of them return and and they looked it up them return and and they looked it up them return and and they looked it up and they were shocked they said oh no we and they were shocked they said oh no we and they were shocked they said oh no we only have one in 10 First Time guest only have one in 10 First Time guest only have one in 10 First Time guest return and I said well I said don't feel return and I said well I said don't feel return and I said well I said don't feel too bad because that's normal yeah too bad because that's normal yeah too bad because that's normal yeah that's normal yeah I said however um we that's normal yeah I said however um we that's normal yeah I said however um we we can help and so so I've been there we can help and so so I've been there we can help and so so I've been there now Rich for three years and now now we now Rich for three years and now now we now Rich for three years and now now we have right at 50% of our first-time have right at 50% of our first-time have right at 50% of our first-time guests return again but that's not the guests return again but that's not the guests return again but that's not the most amazing part okay the the most most amazing part okay the the most most amazing part okay the the most amazing part Y is of those people that amazing part Y is of those people that amazing part Y is of those people that do return again we keep 76% of those do return again we keep 76% of those do return again we keep 76% of those that's amazing that's amazing they that's amazing that's amazing they that's amazing that's amazing they either become a regular attendee or they either become a regular attendee or they either become a regular attendee or they become a member many of these people become a member many of these people become a member many of these people were not Christians when they first were not Christians when they first were not Christians when they first entered our door and so they've trusted entered our door and so they've trusted entered our door and so they've trusted Christ they've they've been baptized and Christ they've they've been baptized and Christ they've they've been baptized and you know at least that's part of our you know at least that's part of our you know at least that's part of our church uh tradition Y and so it is church uh tradition Y and so it is church uh tradition Y and so it is amazing and it is so exciting and fun I amazing and it is so exciting and fun I amazing and it is so exciting and fun I love it I know I that's this is what love it I know I that's this is what love it I know I that's this is what when I heard this I you know I leaned in when I heard this I you know I leaned in when I heard this I you know I leaned in I was like wow this is amazing if you've I was like wow this is amazing if you've I was like wow this is amazing if you've been around Church World anywhere you've been around Church World anywhere you've been around Church World anywhere you've heard the one in 10 stat I've told that heard the one in 10 stat I've told that heard the one in 10 stat I've told that stat to lots of churches I've seen that stat to lots of churches I've seen that stat to lots of churches I've seen that the fact that you're getting you know the fact that you're getting you know the fact that you're getting you know those two together is just it it's those two together is just it it's those two together is just it it's amazing it really is incredible five amazing it really is incredible five amazing it really is incredible five times kind of industry average it's times kind of industry average it's times kind of industry average it's obviously you know that's resulted in obviously you know that's resulted in obviously you know that's resulted in you being one of the fastest growing you being one of the fastest growing you being one of the fastest growing churches in the country and also churches in the country and also churches in the country and also resulted in um needing to do off-site resulted in um needing to do off-site resulted in um needing to do off-site parking so why don't we dig into that

parking so why don't we dig into that parking so why don't we dig into that what would you say are you know you know what would you say are you know you know what would you say are you know you know three things or two or three things that three things or two or three things that three things or two or three things that you know churches should be thinking you know churches should be thinking you know churches should be thinking about to try to inch towards a you know about to try to inch towards a you know about to try to inch towards a you know much better return rate and then much better return rate and then much better return rate and then ultimately stick yes uh of course you ultimately stick yes uh of course you ultimately stick yes uh of course you want a great Sunday Morning Experience want a great Sunday Morning Experience want a great Sunday Morning Experience yep you know and and that includes you yep you know and and that includes you yep you know and and that includes you want good preaching you want good music want good preaching you want good music want good preaching you want good music and you want a welcoming environment you and you want a welcoming environment you and you want a welcoming environment you want people to feel comfortable when want people to feel comfortable when want people to feel comfortable when they when they're there and and this is they when they're there and and this is they when they're there and and this is more at this point in the journey it's more at this point in the journey it's more at this point in the journey it's more about feelings than it is theology more about feelings than it is theology more about feelings than it is theology you you want your guests to feel you you want your guests to feel you you want your guests to feel comfortable you want them to not feel comfortable you want them to not feel comfortable you want them to not feel threatened you want them to feel valued threatened you want them to feel valued threatened you want them to feel valued welcomed and wanted and so so that welcomed and wanted and so so that welcomed and wanted and so so that Sunday Morning Experience is is proba Sunday Morning Experience is is proba Sunday Morning Experience is is proba half of the equation um or shall I say a half of the equation um or shall I say a half of the equation um or shall I say a third of the equation yeah um a second third of the equation yeah um a second third of the equation yeah um a second thing I would say is you want thing I would say is you want thing I would say is you want amazing quick followup okay okay good amazing quick followup okay okay good amazing quick followup okay okay good tell me about that and and the way we tell me about that and and the way we tell me about that and and the way we follow up here we do know door-to-door follow up here we do know door-to-door follow up here we do know door-to-door visits now years ago I did that and it visits now years ago I did that and it visits now years ago I did that and it worked yep but I live in the Houston a worked yep but I live in the Houston a worked yep but I live in the Houston a suburb of Houston Texas and if you do a suburb of Houston Texas and if you do a suburb of Houston Texas and if you do a door-to-door visit here it's more people door-to-door visit here it's more people door-to-door visit here it's more people view you more as an interruption than view you more as an interruption than view you more as an interruption than than anything they're they're too busy than anything they're they're too busy than anything they're they're too busy for this and so we basically have I'm for this and so we basically have I'm for this and so we basically have I'm GNA call it this I've never called it GNA call it this I've never called it GNA call it this I've never called it this before but we basically we

this before but we basically we this before but we basically we basically have a quick follow-up male basically have a quick follow-up male basically have a quick follow-up male campaign okay okay tell me about that so campaign okay okay tell me about that so campaign okay okay tell me about that so now just on the door to door thing I now just on the door to door thing I now just on the door to door thing I agree so I I'm in I'm a uh graduate of agree so I I'm in I'm a uh graduate of agree so I I'm in I'm a uh graduate of evangelism explosion you know yes early evangelism explosion you know yes early evangelism explosion you know yes early early days I knocked on doors and asked early days I knocked on doors and asked early days I knocked on doors and asked those two questions and you know there's those two questions and you know there's those two questions and you know there's at that point that was 20 years ago at at that point that was 20 years ago at at that point that was 20 years ago at that point I'm not sure it was that that point I'm not sure it was that that point I'm not sure it was that effective um at least for where we were effective um at least for where we were effective um at least for where we were but but I think it it's even more so but but I think it it's even more so but but I think it it's even more so that case now you know I think that we that case now you know I think that we that case now you know I think that we are so cocooned people their home is are so cocooned people their home is are so cocooned people their home is like this Fortress if you you know it's like this Fortress if you you know it's like this Fortress if you you know it's like you're you assault them by knocking like you're you assault them by knocking like you're you assault them by knocking on the front door so agree with that but on the front door so agree with that but on the front door so agree with that but tell me about this kind of quick this tell me about this kind of quick this tell me about this kind of quick this quick mail campaign what does that look quick mail campaign what does that look quick mail campaign what does that look like okay yeah let me tell you first of like okay yeah let me tell you first of like okay yeah let me tell you first of all um let me just start at the all um let me just start at the all um let me just start at the beginning and walk you through it um we beginning and walk you through it um we beginning and walk you through it um we are one of the churches are one of the churches are one of the churches that on Sunday mornings ask 100% of that on Sunday mornings ask 100% of that on Sunday mornings ask 100% of attenders to fill out a communication attenders to fill out a communication attenders to fill out a communication card every week yep we really want to card every week yep we really want to card every week yep we really want to get ination not just from our guests but get ination not just from our guests but get ination not just from our guests but from our own people for their prayer from our own people for their prayer from our own people for their prayer requests and other things and um we requests and other things and um we requests and other things and um we don't want to ask any guest on a Sunday don't want to ask any guest on a Sunday don't want to ask any guest on a Sunday morning to do something that we're not morning to do something that we're not morning to do something that we're not asking everybody else to do so so we asking everybody else to do so so we asking everybody else to do so so we just have a two and a half minute script just have a two and a half minute script just have a two and a half minute script of asking everybody to fill out your of asking everybody to fill out your of asking everybody to fill out your communication card together right now communication card together right now communication card together right now and that kind of thing so we get and that kind of thing so we get and that kind of thing so we get information yep um we also have a guest information yep um we also have a guest information yep um we also have a guest services area people don't have to go services area people don't have to go services area people don't have to go there it's optional but if they're there it's optional but if they're there it's optional but if they're willing to self-identify and they will willing to self-identify and they will willing to self-identify and they will they will receive gifts but here's what they will receive gifts but here's what they will receive gifts but here's what I've learned Rich a lot of churches give I've learned Rich a lot of churches give I've learned Rich a lot of churches give gifts to firsttime guest that will that

gifts to firsttime guest that will that gifts to firsttime guest that will that will not even that will not even will not even that will not even will not even that will not even influence somebody to come back every influence somebody to come back every influence somebody to come back every Church does it interesting um yeah what Church does it interesting um yeah what Church does it interesting um yeah what what what we what we're doing and I what what we what we're doing and I what what we what we're doing and I believe we're all in the Kingdom believe we're all in the Kingdom believe we're all in the Kingdom business together on the same team not business together on the same team not business together on the same team not in competition yep but but I'm I also in competition yep but but I'm I also in competition yep but but I'm I also realize we need to do more right to wow realize we need to do more right to wow realize we need to do more right to wow to wow a guest into coming back than to wow a guest into coming back than to wow a guest into coming back than giving a firsttime gift yeah so so giving a firsttime gift yeah so so giving a firsttime gift yeah so so basically what happens is um on Monday basically what happens is um on Monday basically what happens is um on Monday afternoon at 2 o'clock an email goes out afternoon at 2 o'clock an email goes out afternoon at 2 o'clock an email goes out from me and it says hey it was so good from me and it says hey it was so good from me and it says hey it was so good to have you at Sugar Creek Baptist to have you at Sugar Creek Baptist to have you at Sugar Creek Baptist Church yesterday thanks for being a part Church yesterday thanks for being a part Church yesterday thanks for being a part of our worship service um hope you found of our worship service um hope you found of our worship service um hope you found it meaningful hope that the Lord moved it meaningful hope that the Lord moved it meaningful hope that the Lord moved in your life etc etc in your life etc etc in your life etc etc um we invite you back next week and by um we invite you back next week and by um we invite you back next week and by the way if you have 30 seconds would you the way if you have 30 seconds would you the way if you have 30 seconds would you click here and take this five question click here and take this five question click here and take this five question survey to help us know how we can better survey to help us know how we can better survey to help us know how we can better serve you and so we hear back from three serve you and so we hear back from three serve you and so we hear back from three to five guests every week on what their to five guests every week on what their to five guests every week on what their first time experience was and I've got first time experience was and I've got first time experience was and I've got three years of these surveys that right three years of these surveys that right three years of these surveys that right uh that we we go through now that uh that we we go through now that uh that we we go through now that happens Monday at 2 um at Tuesday at happens Monday at 2 um at Tuesday at happens Monday at 2 um at Tuesday at 1:00 I have a team of people that come 1:00 I have a team of people that come 1:00 I have a team of people that come together with me and our church together with me and our church together with me and our church averages I'm going to say we average 30 averages I'm going to say we average 30 averages I'm going to say we average 30 to 40 first time adult guests every to 40 first time adult guests every to 40 first time adult guests every week okay so we sit down and and it's week okay so we sit down and and it's week okay so we sit down and and it's important that not only does your mail

important that not only does your mail important that not only does your mail campaign go out but the it can't look campaign go out but the it can't look campaign go out but the it can't look like a mail campaign right because like a mail campaign right because like a mail campaign right because people throw the mail in the trash yes people throw the mail in the trash yes people throw the mail in the trash yes so so so we do a handwritten card so so so we do a handwritten card so so so we do a handwritten card MH nowhere on this envelope is Sugar MH nowhere on this envelope is Sugar MH nowhere on this envelope is Sugar Creek Baptist Church identified this is Creek Baptist Church identified this is Creek Baptist Church identified this is personal stationary of mine it's Bruce personal stationary of mine it's Bruce personal stationary of mine it's Bruce Amon you know and um it has a first Amon you know and um it has a first Amon you know and um it has a first class stamp on it you can you cannot run class stamp on it you can you cannot run class stamp on it you can you cannot run it through a postage meter and expect it through a postage meter and expect it through a postage meter and expect somebody to open it yes so so this this somebody to open it yes so so this this somebody to open it yes so so this this is non it looks like a birthday card is non it looks like a birthday card is non it looks like a birthday card right okay yes now now now now that is right okay yes now now now now that is right okay yes now now now now that is going to be opened people open open going to be opened people open open going to be opened people open open those because they know right nobody has those because they know right nobody has those because they know right nobody has ever been insulted through a card that ever been insulted through a card that ever been insulted through a card that looks like a birthday card yes oh man so looks like a birthday card yes oh man so looks like a birthday card yes oh man so they they they open this they they they open this they they they open this so so they just wait wait a second Bruce so so they just wait wait a second Bruce so so they just wait wait a second Bruce I hope people are listening in you are I hope people are listening in you are I hope people are listening in you are dropping so many value bombs here like dropping so many value bombs here like dropping so many value bombs here like you just are rolling over these things you just are rolling over these things you just are rolling over these things uh but I hope people are listening which uh but I hope people are listening which uh but I hope people are listening which is great so keep going keep going okay is great so keep going keep going okay is great so keep going keep going okay now here's what does happen when we get now here's what does happen when we get now here's what does happen when we get a birthday card or something that looks a birthday card or something that looks a birthday card or something that looks like it yeah we we're encouraged and like it yeah we we're encouraged and like it yeah we we're encouraged and sometimes there's money in it sometimes sometimes there's money in it sometimes sometimes there's money in it sometimes there's a gift card in it right so we're there's a gift card in it right so we're there's a gift card in it right so we're gonna open it yes so so we do and and gonna open it yes so so we do and and gonna open it yes so so we do and and here's the basic text I this first card here's the basic text I this first card here's the basic text I this first card is from me me right ideally it would is from me me right ideally it would is from me me right ideally it would come from the senior pastor right that come from the senior pastor right that come from the senior pastor right that has not worked at our church so we did a has not worked at our church so we did a has not worked at our church so we did a side by-side test and discovered we had side by-side test and discovered we had side by-side test and discovered we had as many return when I wrote the card as as many return when I wrote the card as as many return when I wrote the card as he so we've swapped places in that y but he so we've swapped places in that y but he so we've swapped places in that y but but I do prefer the lead Pastor to write but I do prefer the lead Pastor to write but I do prefer the lead Pastor to write this but if you're writing 30 40 a week

this but if you're writing 30 40 a week this but if you're writing 30 40 a week right it is just hard so I have a team right it is just hard so I have a team right it is just hard so I have a team of volunteers that help we all write the of volunteers that help we all write the of volunteers that help we all write the same text it basically says hey Rich it same text it basically says hey Rich it same text it basically says hey Rich it was so good to have you worship worship was so good to have you worship worship was so good to have you worship worship with us on Sunday I want to invite you with us on Sunday I want to invite you with us on Sunday I want to invite you back next Sunday y I'm also enclosing A back next Sunday y I'm also enclosing A back next Sunday y I'm also enclosing A gift just because you matter to God gift just because you matter to God gift just because you matter to God and you matter to me enjoy the Starbucks and you matter to me enjoy the Starbucks and you matter to me enjoy the Starbucks Pastor Bruce right so we do include a Pastor Bruce right so we do include a Pastor Bruce right so we do include a Starbucks gift card now we've already Starbucks gift card now we've already Starbucks gift card now we've already given them a gift if they came by the given them a gift if they came by the given them a gift if they came by the guest service center it's a coffee mug guest service center it's a coffee mug guest service center it's a coffee mug plus a book yep um plus information plus a book yep um plus information plus a book yep um plus information about our church but now this goes out about our church but now this goes out about our church but now this goes out in the Tuesday mail so it's in their in the Tuesday mail so it's in their in the Tuesday mail so it's in their home Wednesday they may not check the home Wednesday they may not check the home Wednesday they may not check the mail then but it's their Wednesday it's mail then but it's their Wednesday it's mail then but it's their Wednesday it's their Thursday people know hey let me their Thursday people know hey let me their Thursday people know hey let me just rephrase this slow followup means just rephrase this slow followup means just rephrase this slow followup means you really don't care fast followup you really don't care fast followup you really don't care fast followup means you really do care at least that's means you really do care at least that's means you really do care at least that's the perception in your church guests so the perception in your church guests so the perception in your church guests so we just need to accept that and and do we just need to accept that and and do we just need to accept that and and do go fast yep now when people get get that go fast yep now when people get get that go fast yep now when people get get that it's a little bit of a wow I think for it's a little bit of a wow I think for it's a little bit of a wow I think for them um but that is just the beginning them um but that is just the beginning them um but that is just the beginning for us rich and I'll tell you why there for us rich and I'll tell you why there for us rich and I'll tell you why there are a lot of churches that send out a are a lot of churches that send out a are a lot of churches that send out a thank you for coming to our church yeah thank you for coming to our church yeah thank you for coming to our church yeah there might there might even be people there might there might even be people there might there might even be people who will put a a $5 gift certificate to who will put a a $5 gift certificate to who will put a a $5 gift certificate to the church's Cath if they'll come back the church's Cath if they'll come back the church's Cath if they'll come back but I don't like doing that at all and but I don't like doing that at all and but I don't like doing that at all and here's why I don't want somebody have to here's why I don't want somebody have to here's why I don't want somebody have to come back to my church to be come back to my church to be come back to my church to be blessed I want somebody to feel blessed blessed I want somebody to feel blessed blessed I want somebody to feel blessed by our church even if they never return by our church even if they never return by our church even if they never return again right amazing so I intentionally again right amazing so I intentionally again right amazing so I intentionally put a Starbucks card in that first

put a Starbucks card in that first put a Starbucks card in that first mailing now here is what I'm about to mailing now here is what I'm about to mailing now here is what I'm about to say may be the biggest thing I'm gonna say may be the biggest thing I'm gonna say may be the biggest thing I'm gonna say all day okay and it's not it's not say all day okay and it's not it's not say all day okay and it's not it's not going to sound like a big deal yeah but going to sound like a big deal yeah but going to sound like a big deal yeah but it's hu it's it's hu it's it's hu it's huge we notice if these people who were huge we notice if these people who were huge we notice if these people who were First Time guest this past Sunday if First Time guest this past Sunday if First Time guest this past Sunday if they show up again next Sunday or they show up again next Sunday or they show up again next Sunday or not if they show up then they become not if they show up then they become not if they show up then they become second time guests and we do something second time guests and we do something second time guests and we do something with them if they don't show up they're with them if they don't show up they're with them if they don't show up they're in a category that we call uh the First in a category that we call uh the First in a category that we call uh the First Time guest then Time guest then Time guest then absent that group gets a letter now I absent that group gets a letter now I absent that group gets a letter now I use stage personalities to write these use stage personalities to write these use stage personalities to write these letters I'm one of the stage letters I'm one of the stage letters I'm one of the stage personalities our lead pastor and our personalities our lead pastor and our personalities our lead pastor and our worship Pastor so this second one comes worship Pastor so this second one comes worship Pastor so this second one comes from our uh worship Pastor MH and here's from our uh worship Pastor MH and here's from our uh worship Pastor MH and here's here's what it says hey Rich it was here's what it says hey Rich it was here's what it says hey Rich it was great to have you in church uh La last great to have you in church uh La last great to have you in church uh La last week but we missed you this week we miss week but we missed you this week we miss week but we missed you this week we miss we missed you and and we want to invite we missed you and and we want to invite we missed you and and we want to invite you back next week y we also want to you back next week y we also want to you back next week y we also want to know if you have any prayer requests we know if you have any prayer requests we know if you have any prayer requests we want to help you anyway we can and by want to help you anyway we can and by want to help you anyway we can and by the way here is the URL to the pastor's the way here is the URL to the pastor's the way here is the URL to the pastor's message from Sunday it was awesome you message from Sunday it was awesome you message from Sunday it was awesome you will love it now in this will love it now in this will love it now in this communication I do provide a $5 communication I do provide a $5 communication I do provide a $5 certificate people can use to come back certificate people can use to come back certificate people can use to come back to our church using our coffee shop or to our church using our coffee shop or to our church using our coffee shop or bookstore um because um I think it's bookstore um because um I think it's bookstore um because um I think it's fine to try to give them incentive to fine to try to give them incentive to fine to try to give them incentive to come back but I don't like that to be come back but I don't like that to be come back but I don't like that to be the first thing it feels manipulative to the first thing it feels manipulative to the first thing it feels manipulative to me I want to get give without any

me I want to get give without any me I want to get give without any expectation first yep and then I'm going expectation first yep and then I'm going expectation first yep and then I'm going to give and and give them a little to give and and give them a little to give and and give them a little incentive to come back um but this is incentive to come back um but this is incentive to come back um but this is huge and I'll tell you why these one out huge and I'll tell you why these one out huge and I'll tell you why these one out of 10 people who go they go to I'm sorry of 10 people who go they go to I'm sorry of 10 people who go they go to I'm sorry the nine out of 10 who don't return they the nine out of 10 who don't return they the nine out of 10 who don't return they received a letter from the church the received a letter from the church the received a letter from the church the first time they attended but they never first time they attended but they never first time they attended but they never hear from the church again right well hear from the church again right well hear from the church again right well not only do these people hear from us not only do these people hear from us not only do these people hear from us they hear from us fast the very next they hear from us fast the very next they hear from us fast the very next Sunday that they didn't show up and so Sunday that they didn't show up and so Sunday that they didn't show up and so if you're a second time guest you go if you're a second time guest you go if you're a second time guest you go into a different list that list receives into a different list that list receives into a different list that list receives a letter from our small groups Pastor a letter from our small groups Pastor a letter from our small groups Pastor he's not a stage personality so we put he's not a stage personality so we put he's not a stage personality so we put his picture on the his picture on the his picture on the letter and we explain our connect group letter and we explain our connect group letter and we explain our connect group kiosk area and explain to people hey kiosk area and explain to people hey kiosk area and explain to people hey here's one of the ways you can make here's one of the ways you can make here's one of the ways you can make friends fast in our church that includes friends fast in our church that includes friends fast in our church that includes um a $5 Sonic gift card in that now if um a $5 Sonic gift card in that now if um a $5 Sonic gift card in that now if your husband and wife anytime you hear your husband and wife anytime you hear your husband and wife anytime you hear me talk gift card there will be two of me talk gift card there will be two of me talk gift card there will be two of them in there okay okay if if you're a them in there okay okay if if you're a them in there okay okay if if you're a single there's just one but if you're single there's just one but if you're single there's just one but if you're husband and wife you get two because we husband and wife you get two because we husband and wife you get two because we want to be generous to these people one want to be generous to these people one want to be generous to these people one of the fallacies in people's mind is all of the fallacies in people's mind is all of the fallacies in people's mind is all that the church wants is your money that the church wants is your money that the church wants is your money right well we want to take that away right well we want to take that away right well we want to take that away real quick and so we don't even ask them real quick and so we don't even ask them real quick and so we don't even ask them for money but we do give them a lot of for money but we do give them a lot of for money but we do give them a lot of gifts they see us as a generous church gifts they see us as a generous church gifts they see us as a generous church not as a church asking for money yep not as a church asking for money yep not as a church asking for money yep okay okay so so that that that happens okay okay so so that that that happens okay okay so so that that that happens with our second time guests and then all

with our second time guests and then all with our second time guests and then all third time guests get a letter from our third time guests get a letter from our third time guests get a letter from our pastor inviting them to our lunch with pastor inviting them to our lunch with pastor inviting them to our lunch with the pastor's event which is a catered the pastor's event which is a catered the pastor's event which is a catered meal it's not cheap it's you know $20 a meal it's not cheap it's you know $20 a meal it's not cheap it's you know $20 a plate um we it's with it's one hour you plate um we it's with it's one hour you plate um we it's with it's one hour you eat you eat you meet the pastors uh you eat you eat you meet the pastors uh you eat you eat you meet the pastors uh you hear about our church it's not a hear about our church it's not a hear about our church it's not a membership class in our church uh uh membership class in our church uh uh membership class in our church uh uh situation but there is a a an situation but there is a a an situation but there is a a an explanation of membership at the close explanation of membership at the close explanation of membership at the close of that and people are given opportunity of that and people are given opportunity of that and people are given opportunity to become members right then and there to become members right then and there to become members right then and there of course you can become members of our of course you can become members of our of course you can become members of our church Any Sunday but right but at at church Any Sunday but right but at at church Any Sunday but right but at at that event you know we're really you that event you know we're really you that event you know we're really you could almost consider this a funnel and could almost consider this a funnel and could almost consider this a funnel and the the numbers get smaller But First the the numbers get smaller But First the the numbers get smaller But First Time guest then first time absent then Time guest then first time absent then Time guest then first time absent then Second Time guest then Third Time guest Second Time guest then Third Time guest Second Time guest then Third Time guest and somewhere along this journey people and somewhere along this journey people and somewhere along this journey people decide hey this place is for me right decide hey this place is for me right decide hey this place is for me right right and um so so anyway now so in right and um so so anyway now so in right and um so so anyway now so in there one quick kind of clarification there one quick kind of clarification there one quick kind of clarification when how are you Discerning that people when how are you Discerning that people when how are you Discerning that people actually have come that second time what actually have come that second time what actually have come that second time what what are you doing to you know to make what are you doing to you know to make what are you doing to you know to make sure people you know that you can I get sure people you know that you can I get sure people you know that you can I get the bifurcation and all that but what the bifurcation and all that but what the bifurcation and all that but what are you doing to ensure that people came are you doing to ensure that people came are you doing to ensure that people came okay we can only go with what we know okay we can only go with what we know okay we can only go with what we know yep and we use the communication card yep and we use the communication card yep and we use the communication card right right right right back to that right right right right back to that right right right right back to that because you because you're dumping all because you because you're dumping all because you because you're dumping all that data right right right now the Comm that data right right right now the Comm that data right right right now the Comm now let's say that you and your wife now let's say that you and your wife now let's say that you and your wife come the first Sunday and you fill out a come the first Sunday and you fill out a come the first Sunday and you fill out a card you then you come the Second Sunday card you then you come the Second Sunday card you then you come the Second Sunday and you don't fill out a card well then and you don't fill out a card well then and you don't fill out a card well then we we don't know you were there right so we we don't know you were there right so we we don't know you were there right so we we send you the letter uh and the $5

we we send you the letter uh and the $5 we we send you the letter uh and the $5 coupon uh saying hey we missed you this coupon uh saying hey we missed you this coupon uh saying hey we missed you this past Sunday right well you know you were past Sunday right well you know you were past Sunday right well you know you were there but but what it tells you is why there but but what it tells you is why there but but what it tells you is why this card really this church really pays this card really this church really pays this card really this church really pays attention to who fills out the card yes attention to who fills out the card yes attention to who fills out the card yes and they really care about people they and they really care about people they and they really care about people they they're paying attention to the details they're paying attention to the details they're paying attention to the details and so and it's an encouragement for you and so and it's an encouragement for you and so and it's an encouragement for you to go ahead and fill out the card next to go ahead and fill out the card next to go ahead and fill out the card next time because we're paying attention to time because we're paying attention to time because we're paying attention to these things okay that makes total sense these things okay that makes total sense these things okay that makes total sense yeah that right obviously yeah that yeah that right obviously yeah that yeah that right obviously yeah that that's that makes total sense for sure that's that makes total sense for sure that's that makes total sense for sure you know the thing I love there's a lot you know the thing I love there's a lot you know the thing I love there's a lot there for folks I hope people are there for folks I hope people are there for folks I hope people are listening there's a lot there the what listening there's a lot there the what listening there's a lot there the what the uh the thing I want to encourage the uh the thing I want to encourage the uh the thing I want to encourage people that are listening in because people that are listening in because people that are listening in because you've chunked it down in to you know you've chunked it down in to you know you've chunked it down in to you know we're going to literally follow up we're we're going to literally follow up we're we're going to literally follow up we're going to do high-intensity followup going to do high-intensity followup going to do high-intensity followup we're going to write a bunch of notes we're going to write a bunch of notes we're going to write a bunch of notes for the people that were there last week for the people that were there last week for the people that were there last week um you know there' be a lot of churches um you know there' be a lot of churches um you know there' be a lot of churches that don't have 30 visitors a week they that don't have 30 visitors a week they that don't have 30 visitors a week they would have you know maybe five or 10 um would have you know maybe five or 10 um would have you know maybe five or 10 um who they could start there and say hey who they could start there and say hey who they could start there and say hey let's let's let's do this I think what let's let's let's do this I think what let's let's let's do this I think what happens is we wait for so long and then happens is we wait for so long and then happens is we wait for so long and then they get this big pile like if you they get this big pile like if you they get this big pile like if you waited a month and you got 120 of these waited a month and you got 120 of these waited a month and you got 120 of these things there's no way you can write 120 things there's no way you can write 120 things there's no way you can write 120 cards but the fact that you keep on it cards but the fact that you keep on it cards but the fact that you keep on it week in week out I think is a critical week in week out I think is a critical week in week out I think is a critical learning for people learning for people learning for people it absolutely is um it's it's such a it absolutely is um it's it's such a it absolutely is um it's it's such a high value to me and to our church that high value to me and to our church that high value to me and to our church that it oozes out of us I mean we do we we do it oozes out of us I mean we do we we do it oozes out of us I mean we do we we do not let anybody fall through the cracks not let anybody fall through the cracks not let anybody fall through the cracks I mean is it technically possible yes I mean is it technically possible yes I mean is it technically possible yes but if you fill out a card hey we're but if you fill out a card hey we're but if you fill out a card hey we're going to love on you right we're going

going to love on you right we're going going to love on you right we're going you yeah that's very good do you have um you yeah that's very good do you have um you yeah that's very good do you have um would you be willing to share uh like a would you be willing to share uh like a would you be willing to share uh like a PDF or something that of your connection PDF or something that of your connection PDF or something that of your connection card that's in the service I'd love I'd card that's in the service I'd love I'd card that's in the service I'd love I'd love to share that put that in the show love to share that put that in the show love to share that put that in the show notes if it's available if it's not notes if it's available if it's not notes if it's available if it's not that's fine you know that's fine uh let that's fine you know that's fine uh let that's fine you know that's fine uh let me look and see if I have one handy yeah me look and see if I have one handy yeah me look and see if I have one handy yeah yeah that's fine um that's great oh we yeah that's fine um that's great oh we yeah that's fine um that's great oh we could check on that after if people want could check on that after if people want could check on that after if people want to look in the show notes they'll to look in the show notes they'll to look in the show notes they'll they'll see if it's there if not then we they'll see if it's there if not then we they'll see if it's there if not then we wouldn't we weren't able to find it wouldn't we weren't able to find it wouldn't we weren't able to find it which is to totally fine if that's okay which is to totally fine if that's okay which is to totally fine if that's okay let's do that totally fine I just don't let's do that totally fine I just don't let's do that totally fine I just don't have one handy yep that's totally fine have one handy yep that's totally fine have one handy yep that's totally fine um now you do uh guest retention um now you do uh guest retention um now you do uh guest retention coaching for churches right you you help coaching for churches right you you help coaching for churches right you you help other churches who you know might be other churches who you know might be other churches who you know might be interested that can you tell me a little interested that can you tell me a little interested that can you tell me a little bit about that I do yes well basically bit about that I do yes well basically bit about that I do yes well basically um if a church is having um a um if a church is having um a um if a church is having um a significant number of guests and they significant number of guests and they significant number of guests and they are uh they're seeing this one in 10 uh are uh they're seeing this one in 10 uh are uh they're seeing this one in 10 uh return rate um and they want some help return rate um and they want some help return rate um and they want some help um I I do some coaching with those um I I do some coaching with those um I I do some coaching with those churches that are interested and churches that are interested and churches that are interested and basically what it amounts to is I take basically what it amounts to is I take basically what it amounts to is I take them through our process but uh I spend them through our process but uh I spend them through our process but uh I spend um at least an hour a week on the phone um at least an hour a week on the phone um at least an hour a week on the phone with them MH this is this is usually U with them MH this is this is usually U with them MH this is this is usually U six phone calls um or Skype calls it can six phone calls um or Skype calls it can six phone calls um or Skype calls it can be staff it can be volunteers but be staff it can be volunteers but be staff it can be volunteers but certainly some key staff need to be certainly some key staff need to be certainly some key staff need to be there um but I really get to a lot of there um but I really get to a lot of there um but I really get to a lot of the wise behind it for example uh these the wise behind it for example uh these the wise behind it for example uh these people will know um on the second people will know um on the second people will know um on the second mailing you've got to get it opened but mailing you've got to get it opened but mailing you've got to get it opened but you can't handwrite everything right and you can't handwrite everything right and you can't handwrite everything right and so we we use a concept called lumpy mail

so we we use a concept called lumpy mail so we we use a concept called lumpy mail which is just a marketing uh concept uh which is just a marketing uh concept uh which is just a marketing uh concept uh another piece of mail people will open another piece of mail people will open another piece of mail people will open is it's if there's something in it is it's if there's something in it is it's if there's something in it there's a lump in here I don't know if there's a lump in here I don't know if there's a lump in here I don't know if this is a pen I don't know what this is this is a pen I don't know what this is this is a pen I don't know what this is but I'm going to open it and see so so but I'm going to open it and see so so but I'm going to open it and see so so we use these Concepts to get each piece we use these Concepts to get each piece we use these Concepts to get each piece of our mail open yeah and so I go back of our mail open yeah and so I go back of our mail open yeah and so I go back with people on the why behind it and the with people on the why behind it and the with people on the why behind it and the Heart behind it which is to love and Heart behind it which is to love and Heart behind it which is to love and Lead all people to life changing Christ Lead all people to life changing Christ Lead all people to life changing Christ and the what we do and why we do it and and the what we do and why we do it and and the what we do and why we do it and then I get to know their Church culture then I get to know their Church culture then I get to know their Church culture give them ideas uh basically hold them give them ideas uh basically hold them give them ideas uh basically hold them accountable if they want me to you know accountable if they want me to you know accountable if they want me to you know I give them assignments and say hey I give them assignments and say hey I give them assignments and say hey within the next two weeks you guys need within the next two weeks you guys need within the next two weeks you guys need to have a b and c done and they say okay to have a b and c done and they say okay to have a b and c done and they say okay we can do that come back in a couple we can do that come back in a couple we can do that come back in a couple weeks and talk about weeks and talk about weeks and talk about it um how do people if they want to get it um how do people if they want to get it um how do people if they want to get in touch with you to learn more about in touch with you to learn more about in touch with you to learn more about that the coaching piece before we jump that the coaching piece before we jump that the coaching piece before we jump into the lightning round how how could into the lightning round how how could into the lightning round how how could how could they do that um really just uh how could they do that um really just uh how could they do that um really just uh reach out to me at my church email reach out to me at my church email reach out to me at my church email address I don't have a I don't have a address I don't have a I don't have a address I don't have a I don't have a web page or anything like that um it's web page or anything like that um it's web page or anything like that um it's um it's B Ammons sugar um it's B Ammons sugar um it's B Ammons sugar creek.net bons sugar creek.net I'll even creek.net bons sugar creek.net I'll even creek.net bons sugar creek.net I'll even give my cell phone out at 71323 give my cell phone out at 71323 give my cell phone out at 71323 17727 it's already on my Facebook page 17727 it's already on my Facebook page 17727 it's already on my Facebook page and everybody who wants it can find it and everybody who wants it can find it and everybody who wants it can find it so you might as well have it too well so you might as well have it too well so you might as well have it too well there you go another 5,000 people just there you go another 5,000 people just there you go another 5,000 people just got your you know please be nice when got your you know please be nice when got your you know please be nice when you text them text nice things so that's you text them text nice things so that's you text them text nice things so that's good this is the unseminary podcast good this is the unseminary podcast good this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary

stuff you wish they taught in seminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary well let's jump into the right lightning well let's jump into the right lightning well let's jump into the right lightning round that part of the episode where we round that part of the episode where we round that part of the episode where we ask similar questions everybody that's ask similar questions everybody that's ask similar questions everybody that's on the show super excited to have Bruce on the show super excited to have Bruce on the show super excited to have Bruce Bruce with us today from Sugar Creek Bruce with us today from Sugar Creek Bruce with us today from Sugar Creek doing all kinds of great stuff at their doing all kinds of great stuff at their doing all kinds of great stuff at their church and it's exciting to hear you church and it's exciting to hear you church and it's exciting to hear you know some of their retention stuff that know some of their retention stuff that know some of their retention stuff that we've been talking about today but Bruce we've been talking about today but Bruce we've been talking about today but Bruce what is an online resource that you guys what is an online resource that you guys what is an online resource that you guys are using that's helping you or you're are using that's helping you or you're are using that's helping you or you're using that's helping you in your using that's helping you in your using that's helping you in your ministry um I I love uh it's a website ministry um I I love uh it's a website ministry um I I love uh it's a website called work flowy and um it's personal called work flowy and um it's personal called work flowy and um it's personal time management stuff is what it is it's time management stuff is what it is it's time management stuff is what it is it's it's basically l a list management it's basically l a list management it's basically l a list management software but it's also on my phone and software but it's also on my phone and software but it's also on my phone and so also on my IP ad on my computer so I so also on my IP ad on my computer so I so also on my IP ad on my computer so I can I can add to the list um you can can I can add to the list um you can can I can add to the list um you can create categories you know I've got all create categories you know I've got all create categories you know I've got all my volunteers names and phone numbers in my volunteers names and phone numbers in my volunteers names and phone numbers in there it's just an organizational tool there it's just an organizational tool there it's just an organizational tool and I love it very cool what's A's clean and I love it very cool what's A's clean and I love it very cool what's A's clean yeah that looks good what's a book yeah that looks good what's a book yeah that looks good what's a book you've read in the last six months to a you've read in the last six months to a you've read in the last six months to a year that's impacted your thinking or year that's impacted your thinking or year that's impacted your thinking or Ministry you know I read one uh this Ministry you know I read one uh this Ministry you know I read one uh this past week that I just loved so much I past week that I just loved so much I past week that I just loved so much I want to recommend it um it it's want to recommend it um it it's want to recommend it um it it's called how to walk on water when you called how to walk on water when you called how to walk on water when you feel like you're feel like you're feel like you're drowning and I'll tell you what it did drowning and I'll tell you what it did drowning and I'll tell you what it did for me Rich um and I don't mind sharing for me Rich um and I don't mind sharing for me Rich um and I don't mind sharing this this is public knowledge but but 20 this this is public knowledge but but 20 this this is public knowledge but but 20 years ago I was diagnosed with years ago I was diagnosed with years ago I was diagnosed with depression anxiety and panic attack uh depression anxiety and panic attack uh depression anxiety and panic attack uh problems and so I've of and on struggled problems and so I've of and on struggled problems and so I've of and on struggled with those things over the years and um with those things over the years and um with those things over the years and um this book that I read this week it's by this book that I read this week it's by this book that I read this week it's by Tommy Nelson uh pastor of Denton Bible Tommy Nelson uh pastor of Denton Bible Tommy Nelson uh pastor of Denton Bible Church well-known pastor but he went Church well-known pastor but he went Church well-known pastor but he went through his own issues oh very cool man

through his own issues oh very cool man through his own issues oh very cool man this book this book this book you know Ministry even if you're not you know Ministry even if you're not you know Ministry even if you're not depressed you get down at times yep yep depressed you get down at times yep yep depressed you get down at times yep yep and this book just helps you to realize and this book just helps you to realize and this book just helps you to realize how man even if you're in a position how man even if you're in a position how man even if you're in a position where you feel like you're about to where you feel like you're about to where you feel like you're about to drown you can have victory over that drown you can have victory over that drown you can have victory over that cool so it was powerful for me this week cool so it was powerful for me this week cool so it was powerful for me this week that's very cool very cool have to check that's very cool very cool have to check that's very cool very cool have to check that out um what's another Ministry that that out um what's another Ministry that that out um what's another Ministry that you're looking at that inspires you you're looking at that inspires you you're looking at that inspires you these days I love Church of the these days I love Church of the these days I love Church of the Highlands and Chris Hodges is the pastor Highlands and Chris Hodges is the pastor Highlands and Chris Hodges is the pastor there I've never met him I only know I there I've never met him I only know I there I've never met him I only know I only know them from a distance but I am only know them from a distance but I am only know them from a distance but I am planning a trip out there um they Chris planning a trip out there um they Chris planning a trip out there um they Chris is one of the pastors that helped uh to is one of the pastors that helped uh to is one of the pastors that helped uh to found the AR Network which is an found the AR Network which is an found the AR Network which is an association Church Planning Association association Church Planning Association association Church Planning Association which is powerful y um but that church which is powerful y um but that church which is powerful y um but that church you know I've watched some of he's got a you know I've watched some of he's got a you know I've watched some of he's got a simple four-step process um you know simple four-step process um you know simple four-step process um you know they do a lunch after church every week they do a lunch after church every week they do a lunch after church every week one of them is basically membership one of them is basically membership one of them is basically membership class the first of every every month the class the first of every every month the class the first of every every month the next one is um small groups the next one next one is um small groups the next one next one is um small groups the next one is serve on their dream team and the is serve on their dream team and the is serve on their dream team and the next one is share which is evangelism SL next one is share which is evangelism SL next one is share which is evangelism SL inviting people to church and and they inviting people to church and and they inviting people to church and and they just have people going through these just have people going through these just have people going through these four classes all the time they're four classes all the time they're four classes all the time they're organized super well yeah um they really organized super well yeah um they really organized super well yeah um they really preach the gospel clearly and a lot of preach the gospel clearly and a lot of preach the gospel clearly and a lot of people including adults come to Christ people including adults come to Christ people including adults come to Christ through their Ministry last last I heard through their Ministry last last I heard through their Ministry last last I heard they were the second largest church in they were the second largest church in they were the second largest church in America with about a 50,000 plus week

America with about a 50,000 plus week America with about a 50,000 plus week attendants yeah it's fantastic we've attendants yeah it's fantastic we've attendants yeah it's fantastic we've I've had a couple I haven't had Chris I've had a couple I haven't had Chris I've had a couple I haven't had Chris but I've had a couple leaders from but I've had a couple leaders from but I've had a couple leaders from Church of the Highlands on the podcast Church of the Highlands on the podcast Church of the Highlands on the podcast they are clear thinkers and love their they are clear thinkers and love their they are clear thinkers and love their their heart and um you know I but they their heart and um you know I but they their heart and um you know I but they could be learning from you I think they could be learning from you I think they could be learning from you I think they could add some stuff in you know we were could add some stuff in you know we were could add some stuff in you know we were talking about today if you could get 15 talking about today if you could get 15 talking about today if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who minutes with any leader alive today who minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get that with and why would you want to get that with and why would you want to get that with and why that is easy it for me it's Rick Warren that is easy it for me it's Rick Warren that is easy it for me it's Rick Warren nice um Rick at you can look up anybody nice um Rick at you can look up anybody nice um Rick at you can look up anybody online and find people grapping about online and find people grapping about online and find people grapping about but let me just tell you this about Rick but let me just tell you this about Rick but let me just tell you this about Rick Warren um I grew up in a conservative Warren um I grew up in a conservative Warren um I grew up in a conservative maybe fundamentalist Baptist Church y uh maybe fundamentalist Baptist Church y uh maybe fundamentalist Baptist Church y uh that had a little legalism in it without that had a little legalism in it without that had a little legalism in it without knowing it and so I grew grew up in that knowing it and so I grew grew up in that knowing it and so I grew grew up in that and I didn't even know that I had it and I didn't even know that I had it and I didn't even know that I had it right um but I started listening to Rick right um but I started listening to Rick right um but I started listening to Rick about 35 years ago um and his messages about 35 years ago um and his messages about 35 years ago um and his messages right they they brought Grace right right they they brought Grace right right they they brought Grace right aside uh to to the gospel El that I had aside uh to to the gospel El that I had aside uh to to the gospel El that I had somehow largely missed and um God did a somehow largely missed and um God did a somehow largely missed and um God did a refreshing in my heart and I've followed refreshing in my heart and I've followed refreshing in my heart and I've followed Rick I've never met him though I've been Rick I've never met him though I've been Rick I've never met him though I've been out to a couple of his conferences but out to a couple of his conferences but out to a couple of his conferences but I've followed him and read I read I've followed him and read I read I've followed him and read I read everything he does and and I tell you everything he does and and I tell you everything he does and and I tell you what God has used him he he's discipled what God has used him he he's discipled what God has used him he he's discipled me without knowing it right through his me without knowing it right through his me without knowing it right through his resources right very cool yeah love him resources right very cool yeah love him resources right very cool yeah love him hugely influential he's obviously a hugely influential he's obviously a hugely influential he's obviously a great leader has you know made huge great leader has you know made huge great leader has you know made huge impact for sure on the Min on Ministry impact for sure on the Min on Ministry impact for sure on the Min on Ministry well let's get into the personal life

well let's get into the personal life well let's get into the personal life you know you're busy guy that's a lot of you know you're busy guy that's a lot of you know you're busy guy that's a lot of cards to write every week I'm sure your cards to write every week I'm sure your cards to write every week I'm sure your hand gets cramped what do you just do hand gets cramped what do you just do hand gets cramped what do you just do for fun uh when you want to kick back for fun uh when you want to kick back for fun uh when you want to kick back relax enjoy life a little bit Bruce I relax enjoy life a little bit Bruce I relax enjoy life a little bit Bruce I love to golf oh nice I I love to read love to golf oh nice I I love to read love to golf oh nice I I love to read and I've just recently uh gone with uh and I've just recently uh gone with uh and I've just recently uh gone with uh one of my daughters ziplining for the one of my daughters ziplining for the one of my daughters ziplining for the first time and that is now going to first time and that is now going to first time and that is now going to become a regular family activity for us become a regular family activity for us become a regular family activity for us nice get the heart rate up a little bit nice get the heart rate up a little bit nice get the heart rate up a little bit yes absolutely it it was a great Rush yes absolutely it it was a great Rush yes absolutely it it was a great Rush well Bru Bruce this has been great I've well Bru Bruce this has been great I've well Bru Bruce this has been great I've I've really appreciated you being on the I've really appreciated you being on the I've really appreciated you being on the show thank you so much for you know for show thank you so much for you know for show thank you so much for you know for for for being here if people want to get for for being here if people want to get for for being here if people want to get in touch with the church uh sugar in touch with the church uh sugar in touch with the church uh sugar creek.net is that the best place for creek.net is that the best place for creek.net is that the best place for them to connect it is great absolutely them to connect it is great absolutely them to connect it is great absolutely well I appreciate you being on the show well I appreciate you being on the show well I appreciate you being on the show you've give already given us your phone you've give already given us your phone you've give already given us your phone number so there's no other way people number so there's no other way people number so there's no other way people want to get need to get in touch but want to get need to get in touch but want to get need to get in touch but Bruce is there uh you know I just really Bruce is there uh you know I just really Bruce is there uh you know I just really appreciate being on the show today thank appreciate being on the show today thank appreciate being on the show today thank you so much you got it rich thanks for you so much you got it rich thanks for you so much you got it rich thanks for having me I love what you're doing keep having me I love what you're doing keep having me I love what you're doing keep up the Great my friend thank you for up the Great my friend thank you for up the Great my friend thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary decom and can sign up at unseminary decom and can sign up at unseminary decom and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary it includes links to what we talked

it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave today's episode drop by iTunes and leave today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to a review Thanks again for tuning in to a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us this week's un Seminary podcast join us this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in wish they taught in wish they taught in seminary