Scott Cochrane on the Leadership Development Imperative in the Local Church

welcome to the on Seminary podcast are welcome to the on Seminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help you looking for practical Ministry help you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on Seminary podcast well this week's on Seminary podcast well this week's on Seminary podcast well happy Thursday everybody Welcome to the happy Thursday everybody Welcome to the happy Thursday everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the host around these parts thank you so host around these parts thank you so host around these parts thank you so much for trusting us with the next few much for trusting us with the next few much for trusting us with the next few minutes of your time I know you're a minutes of your time I know you're a minutes of your time I know you're a busy Church leader you've got a lot of busy Church leader you've got a lot of busy Church leader you've got a lot of things you could be investing in right things you could be investing in right things you could be investing in right now and so we're just hoping that the now and so we're just hoping that the now and so we're just hoping that the next few minutes will invest back into next few minutes will invest back into next few minutes will invest back into you today super excited to have Scott you today super excited to have Scott you today super excited to have Scott Cochran with us from the Willow Creek Cochran with us from the Willow Creek Cochran with us from the Willow Creek Association he's the vice president of Association he's the vice president of Association he's the vice president of International Ministries which I think International Ministries which I think International Ministries which I think that means global domination for the WCA that means global domination for the WCA that means global domination for the WCA so uh Scott welcome to the show hey so uh Scott welcome to the show hey so uh Scott welcome to the show hey thanks Rich it's so good to be with you thanks Rich it's so good to be with you thanks Rich it's so good to be with you here today no so glad to have you for here today no so glad to have you for here today no so glad to have you for folks that don't know uh Willow Creek folks that don't know uh Willow Creek folks that don't know uh Willow Creek Association associated with Willow Creek Association associated with Willow Creek Association associated with Willow Creek Church in uh in Barrington Illinois or Church in uh in Barrington Illinois or Church in uh in Barrington Illinois or really in Chicagoland a fantastic really in Chicagoland a fantastic really in Chicagoland a fantastic ministry that's doing all kinds of great ministry that's doing all kinds of great ministry that's doing all kinds of great things around the world you really things around the world you really things around the world you really should get to know them a little bit should get to know them a little bit should get to know them a little bit better but Scott why don't we why don't better but Scott why don't we why don't better but Scott why don't we why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself you tell us a little bit about yourself you tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at the WCA sure and your role at the WCA sure and your role at the WCA sure um Willow Creek Association is very much um Willow Creek Association is very much um Willow Creek Association is very much a uh a global Ministry uh we're focused a uh a global Ministry uh we're focused a uh a global Ministry uh we're focused on Christian leadership development uh on Christian leadership development uh on Christian leadership development uh one of the main ways that we achieve one of the main ways that we achieve one of the main ways that we achieve that is through a conference we do every that is through a conference we do every that is through a conference we do every year called the Global Leadership Summit year called the Global Leadership Summit year called the Global Leadership Summit uh that conference really began in 1995 uh that conference really began in 1995 uh that conference really began in 1995 uh Bill hybels who's the senior pastor uh Bill hybels who's the senior pastor uh Bill hybels who's the senior pastor of the church and he's the chairman of of the church and he's the chairman of of the church and he's the chairman of the Willow Creek Association uh he

the Willow Creek Association uh he the Willow Creek Association uh he really just wanted to talk about really just wanted to talk about really just wanted to talk about leadership with some leaders he uh he leadership with some leaders he uh he leadership with some leaders he uh he believed as many of us do that uh you believed as many of us do that uh you believed as many of us do that uh you know leadership is the ball game humanly know leadership is the ball game humanly know leadership is the ball game humanly speaking when it comes to the the speaking when it comes to the the speaking when it comes to the the ministry of the local church and so in ministry of the local church and so in ministry of the local church and so in 1995 Bill gathered up with a few hundred 1995 Bill gathered up with a few hundred 1995 Bill gathered up with a few hundred leaders at the the campus of Willow leaders at the the campus of Willow leaders at the the campus of Willow Creek Church and they talked about Creek Church and they talked about Creek Church and they talked about leadership for a couple of days well 20 leadership for a couple of days well 20 leadership for a couple of days well 20 years later this past year we had more years later this past year we had more years later this past year we had more than 200 000 people take part in the than 200 000 people take part in the than 200 000 people take part in the Global Leadership Summit both here in Global Leadership Summit both here in Global Leadership Summit both here in the United States and all around the the United States and all around the the United States and all around the world as well so my little part of that world as well so my little part of that world as well so my little part of that is helping to lead our efforts outside is helping to lead our efforts outside is helping to lead our efforts outside the United States so I actually began the United States so I actually began the United States so I actually began with the association in Canada with the association in Canada with the association in Canada uh you might hear a little bit of a uh you might hear a little bit of a uh you might hear a little bit of a Canadian accent come on it's great we Canadian accent come on it's great we Canadian accent come on it's great we have Affiliates around the world and for have Affiliates around the world and for have Affiliates around the world and for many years I helped to lead the Canadian many years I helped to lead the Canadian many years I helped to lead the Canadian affiliate of Willow Creek and then as affiliate of Willow Creek and then as affiliate of Willow Creek and then as our growth continued globally uh I came our growth continued globally uh I came our growth continued globally uh I came down here to Chicago a couple of years down here to Chicago a couple of years down here to Chicago a couple of years ago and now I helped to lead what we're ago and now I helped to lead what we're ago and now I helped to lead what we're doing essentially outside the United doing essentially outside the United doing essentially outside the United States very cool well obviously States very cool well obviously States very cool well obviously leadership development and Leadership is leadership development and Leadership is leadership development and Leadership is critical to as you said you know local critical to as you said you know local critical to as you said you know local churches and I'd love to dive into that churches and I'd love to dive into that churches and I'd love to dive into that why don't we explore that a little bit why don't we explore that a little bit why don't we explore that a little bit more why is it so important why is more why is it so important why is more why is it so important why is leadership and leadership development so leadership and leadership development so leadership and leadership development so important to a local church important to a local church important to a local church well I think I I know for me and I'll well I think I I know for me and I'll well I think I I know for me and I'll answer that very personally Rich uh in answer that very personally Rich uh in answer that very personally Rich uh in addition to my years with the Willow addition to my years with the Willow addition to my years with the Willow Creek Association I also spent a number Creek Association I also spent a number Creek Association I also spent a number of years in Canada as the executive of years in Canada as the executive of years in Canada as the executive pastor of a large church and uh The Way pastor of a large church and uh The Way pastor of a large church and uh The Way We Were structured at that time as many

We Were structured at that time as many We Were structured at that time as many churches would be there was the the churches would be there was the the churches would be there was the the senior pastor and I was his only direct senior pastor and I was his only direct senior pastor and I was his only direct report and so all the staff about 35 report and so all the staff about 35 report and so all the staff about 35 Staff answered to me and so on and I Staff answered to me and so on and I Staff answered to me and so on and I think I very quickly came to realize think I very quickly came to realize think I very quickly came to realize that the uh the primary value that I can that the uh the primary value that I can that the uh the primary value that I can add to our ministry is to build a team add to our ministry is to build a team add to our ministry is to build a team and from a leadership point of view at and from a leadership point of view at and from a leadership point of view at the end of the day I wanted to make sure the end of the day I wanted to make sure the end of the day I wanted to make sure that year over year over year the that year over year over year the that year over year over year the leadership capacity of our team was leadership capacity of our team was leadership capacity of our team was improving because I knew that if that improving because I knew that if that improving because I knew that if that was happening then all the other was happening then all the other was happening then all the other Ministries would be flourishing as well Ministries would be flourishing as well Ministries would be flourishing as well again humanly speaking we see the Holy again humanly speaking we see the Holy again humanly speaking we see the Holy Spirit can only do what the Holy Spirit Spirit can only do what the Holy Spirit Spirit can only do what the Holy Spirit can do but humanly speaking I just can do but humanly speaking I just can do but humanly speaking I just always believed as does I believe the always believed as does I believe the always believed as does I believe the Willow Creek Association that if we can Willow Creek Association that if we can Willow Creek Association that if we can increase our capacity As Leaders increase our capacity As Leaders increase our capacity As Leaders everything under our watch is going to everything under our watch is going to everything under our watch is going to flourish well you have a really unique flourish well you have a really unique flourish well you have a really unique position obviously seeing a lot of position obviously seeing a lot of position obviously seeing a lot of churches around the world that are doing churches around the world that are doing churches around the world that are doing this well that are developing leaders this well that are developing leaders this well that are developing leaders and obviously you're trying to help them and obviously you're trying to help them and obviously you're trying to help them uh do an even better job what are you uh do an even better job what are you uh do an even better job what are you know what's a handful of those kind of know what's a handful of those kind of know what's a handful of those kind of things that you're seeing in churches things that you're seeing in churches things that you're seeing in churches that are developing leaders well that are developing leaders well that are developing leaders well I think the um you know we most of us I think the um you know we most of us I think the um you know we most of us who have been involved in the in the who have been involved in the in the who have been involved in the in the local church uh we've seen our our local church uh we've seen our our local church uh we've seen our our skills develop in whatever our skills develop in whatever our skills develop in whatever our particular role might be so for a particular role might be so for a particular role might be so for a children's ministry then we want to get children's ministry then we want to get children's ministry then we want to get better as a children's pastor and learn better as a children's pastor and learn better as a children's pastor and learn the latest tools learn the latest the latest tools learn the latest the latest tools learn the latest techniques and so on but I think the techniques and so on but I think the techniques and so on but I think the movement that really God has been movement that really God has been movement that really God has been been fostering around the world is just been fostering around the world is just been fostering around the world is just as you're saying to actually take the

as you're saying to actually take the as you're saying to actually take the leadership side of it up to another leadership side of it up to another leadership side of it up to another level I was recently in Thailand working level I was recently in Thailand working level I was recently in Thailand working with a group of leaders in Bangkok with a group of leaders in Bangkok with a group of leaders in Bangkok and I I had a conversation with them and I I had a conversation with them and I I had a conversation with them basically saying what is your vision for basically saying what is your vision for basically saying what is your vision for the church in Thailand the church in Thailand the church in Thailand and I'll I'll just unpack this a little and I'll I'll just unpack this a little and I'll I'll just unpack this a little bit because you'll see I think a taste bit because you'll see I think a taste bit because you'll see I think a taste of how the leadership side fits into of how the leadership side fits into of how the leadership side fits into this and they've got a masterful uh this and they've got a masterful uh this and they've got a masterful uh strategic plan for the church in strategic plan for the church in strategic plan for the church in Thailand uh Thailand is a country that Thailand uh Thailand is a country that Thailand uh Thailand is a country that right now has about 400 000 Christians right now has about 400 000 Christians right now has about 400 000 Christians in it in a population of about six and a in it in a population of about six and a in it in a population of about six and a half million okay half million okay half million okay um yeah sorry 65 million 65 million um yeah sorry 65 million 65 million um yeah sorry 65 million 65 million before some Christians now they have a before some Christians now they have a before some Christians now they have a goal to see that by the year 2030 they goal to see that by the year 2030 they goal to see that by the year 2030 they want to see 10 percent of the country want to see 10 percent of the country want to see 10 percent of the country Christians wow so uh that means that by Christians wow so uh that means that by Christians wow so uh that means that by the year 2030 they want to go from 400 the year 2030 they want to go from 400 the year 2030 they want to go from 400 000 Christians up to about 7 million 000 Christians up to about 7 million 000 Christians up to about 7 million Christians by that time well when I Christians by that time well when I Christians by that time well when I asked them about this you could just see asked them about this you could just see asked them about this you could just see their passion coming out as they were their passion coming out as they were their passion coming out as they were talking about this and they're rolling talking about this and they're rolling talking about this and they're rolling up their charts and everything and up their charts and everything and up their charts and everything and they've got a strategy around evangelism they've got a strategy around evangelism they've got a strategy around evangelism and they've got a strategy around church and they've got a strategy around church and they've got a strategy around church planting and so on but they said right planting and so on but they said right planting and so on but they said right at the heart of this we need new leaders at the heart of this we need new leaders at the heart of this we need new leaders to be developed because none of this is to be developed because none of this is to be developed because none of this is going to work if we don't have leaders going to work if we don't have leaders going to work if we don't have leaders in place who can now more effectively in place who can now more effectively in place who can now more effectively lead our churches and Lead these Strat lead our churches and Lead these Strat lead our churches and Lead these Strat strategies and so on and so for them the strategies and so on and so for them the strategies and so on and so for them the way they tie into US is the Global way they tie into US is the Global way they tie into US is the Global Leadership Summit is at the heart of Leadership Summit is at the heart of Leadership Summit is at the heart of that but in a bigger scale I think that but in a bigger scale I think that but in a bigger scale I think Thailand serves as an example of what Thailand serves as an example of what Thailand serves as an example of what we're seeing all around the world that we're seeing all around the world that we're seeing all around the world that as Christian leaders get more developed as Christian leaders get more developed as Christian leaders get more developed then everything that they're doing then everything that they're doing then everything that they're doing everything that God is trying to do with

everything that God is trying to do with everything that God is trying to do with them is going to accelerate absolutely them is going to accelerate absolutely them is going to accelerate absolutely well what would be you know so let's say well what would be you know so let's say well what would be you know so let's say there's a church leader listening in there's a church leader listening in there's a church leader listening in they're saying yeah okay I want to raise they're saying yeah okay I want to raise they're saying yeah okay I want to raise the temperature of uh you know the kind the temperature of uh you know the kind the temperature of uh you know the kind of leadership development culture at my of leadership development culture at my of leadership development culture at my church what are you know a few things church what are you know a few things church what are you know a few things they could be thinking about or doing they could be thinking about or doing they could be thinking about or doing some steps they could be taking to kind some steps they could be taking to kind some steps they could be taking to kind of solve that to say okay there's a few of solve that to say okay there's a few of solve that to say okay there's a few things we could be we could be doing things we could be we could be doing things we could be we could be doing coming this next year even sure I always coming this next year even sure I always coming this next year even sure I always viewed it this way um to break it right viewed it this way um to break it right viewed it this way um to break it right down into some very uh practical steps down into some very uh practical steps down into some very uh practical steps every year on January 1st or whenever every year on January 1st or whenever every year on January 1st or whenever your church leadership calendar begins I your church leadership calendar begins I your church leadership calendar begins I would always and again I'll think back would always and again I'll think back would always and again I'll think back to the days when I was an executive to the days when I was an executive to the days when I was an executive Pastor I would always look at my team Pastor I would always look at my team Pastor I would always look at my team and realize that my goal over the next and realize that my goal over the next and realize that my goal over the next 12 months is to I'll borrow a phrase 12 months is to I'll borrow a phrase 12 months is to I'll borrow a phrase from Bill highballs I want to take them from Bill highballs I want to take them from Bill highballs I want to take them from here to there I want to see them from here to there I want to see them from here to there I want to see them develop in other words 12 months from develop in other words 12 months from develop in other words 12 months from now I believe it's the responsibility of now I believe it's the responsibility of now I believe it's the responsibility of the senior Church leader to realize that the senior Church leader to realize that the senior Church leader to realize that the team I've got right now must be a the team I've got right now must be a the team I've got right now must be a better team one year from now their better team one year from now their better team one year from now their skills must be sharper their leadership skills must be sharper their leadership skills must be sharper their leadership abilities and capacity must be better abilities and capacity must be better abilities and capacity must be better they must be a healthier team culture they must be a healthier team culture they must be a healthier team culture and all those kind of things so I and all those kind of things so I and all those kind of things so I believe the first step is to Simply believe the first step is to Simply believe the first step is to Simply recognize that's the responsibility but recognize that's the responsibility but recognize that's the responsibility but then you've got to follow that up and then you've got to follow that up and then you've got to follow that up and actually start to instill that in very actually start to instill that in very actually start to instill that in very practical ways among the team members practical ways among the team members practical ways among the team members themselves but I think the first thing themselves but I think the first thing themselves but I think the first thing is simply declaring that Gathering up is simply declaring that Gathering up is simply declaring that Gathering up your team and say gang one year from now your team and say gang one year from now your team and say gang one year from now you are going to be better in your you are going to be better in your you are going to be better in your leadership individually and as a team we leadership individually and as a team we leadership individually and as a team we are going to be a stronger team now are going to be a stronger team now are going to be a stronger team now let's get at it nice now as an organized let's get at it nice now as an organized let's get at it nice now as an organized station that does a lot of leadership

station that does a lot of leadership station that does a lot of leadership development I would imagine you know development I would imagine you know development I would imagine you know there there could be a Temptation that there there could be a Temptation that there there could be a Temptation that church leaders look at you and say well church leaders look at you and say well church leaders look at you and say well they'll we'll just go to the Leadership they'll we'll just go to the Leadership they'll we'll just go to the Leadership Summit and that'll do it is it possible Summit and that'll do it is it possible Summit and that'll do it is it possible for churches to completely Outsource for churches to completely Outsource for churches to completely Outsource leadership development great question leadership development great question leadership development great question rich and the short answer is no I think rich and the short answer is no I think rich and the short answer is no I think we all need to uh there's two extremes we all need to uh there's two extremes we all need to uh there's two extremes that have often seen and you've just that have often seen and you've just that have often seen and you've just nailed one of them and that is that the nailed one of them and that is that the nailed one of them and that is that the the job of leadership development that the job of leadership development that the job of leadership development that falls on some other organization whether falls on some other organization whether falls on some other organization whether it's the Willow Creek Association it's the Willow Creek Association it's the Willow Creek Association whether it's Catalyst whether it's all whether it's Catalyst whether it's all whether it's Catalyst whether it's all these wonderful Ministries and these wonderful Ministries and these wonderful Ministries and organizations that do that The Other organizations that do that The Other organizations that do that The Other Extreme I've seen though is that uh is Extreme I've seen though is that uh is Extreme I've seen though is that uh is the senior leader who says no thank you the senior leader who says no thank you the senior leader who says no thank you we don't need any help because we are we don't need any help because we are we don't need any help because we are the grand repository of all leadership the grand repository of all leadership the grand repository of all leadership development Acumen and cell lines you development Acumen and cell lines you development Acumen and cell lines you can close little huddle kind of deal I can close little huddle kind of deal I can close little huddle kind of deal I think healthy leadership development think healthy leadership development think healthy leadership development recognizes that it's our responsibility recognizes that it's our responsibility recognizes that it's our responsibility I have a responsibility to develop I have a responsibility to develop I have a responsibility to develop myself I have a responsibility to myself I have a responsibility to myself I have a responsibility to develop my team however I'm going to develop my team however I'm going to develop my team however I'm going to draw on resources all over the place and draw on resources all over the place and draw on resources all over the place and by the way even at the Willow Creek by the way even at the Willow Creek by the way even at the Willow Creek Association we very openly say we are Association we very openly say we are Association we very openly say we are not you know the sole pipeline of not you know the sole pipeline of not you know the sole pipeline of leadership development stuff uh even as leadership development stuff uh even as leadership development stuff uh even as a team ourselves a team ourselves a team ourselves we uh we borrow and draw from all sorts we uh we borrow and draw from all sorts we uh we borrow and draw from all sorts of resources here in the United States of resources here in the United States of resources here in the United States and and around the world we're simply and and around the world we're simply and and around the world we're simply part of that piece of leadership part of that piece of leadership part of that piece of leadership development that I think God is raising development that I think God is raising development that I think God is raising up these days nice what are churches you up these days nice what are churches you up these days nice what are churches you know kind of spending on this part of know kind of spending on this part of know kind of spending on this part of the the you know the equation is there the the you know the equation is there the the you know the equation is there any rules of thumb or you know is it can any rules of thumb or you know is it can any rules of thumb or you know is it can you get away with just you know you get away with just you know you get away with just you know listening to podcasts or or should you listening to podcasts or or should you listening to podcasts or or should you should should be looking to spend some

should should be looking to spend some should should be looking to spend some money on it I think the resourcing it is money on it I think the resourcing it is money on it I think the resourcing it is the um is a critical function of this the um is a critical function of this the um is a critical function of this actually providing resources behind actually providing resources behind actually providing resources behind leadership development turns it from a leadership development turns it from a leadership development turns it from a value into a plan because you can stand value into a plan because you can stand value into a plan because you can stand in front of your team you know all day in front of your team you know all day in front of your team you know all day long and and uh and chant and and cast long and and uh and chant and and cast long and and uh and chant and and cast Vision about leadership development but Vision about leadership development but Vision about leadership development but at the end of the day show me your at the end of the day show me your at the end of the day show me your budget you know are you actually getting budget you know are you actually getting budget you know are you actually getting behind us if I can get very very behind us if I can get very very behind us if I can get very very practical about that Ridge something practical about that Ridge something practical about that Ridge something that I always did both in my role as an that I always did both in my role as an that I always did both in my role as an executive pastor and even now in my role executive pastor and even now in my role executive pastor and even now in my role with the Willow Creek Association with the Willow Creek Association with the Willow Creek Association is I would with each member of the team is I would with each member of the team is I would with each member of the team I would work with them and allocate a I would work with them and allocate a I would work with them and allocate a leadership development portion of their leadership development portion of their leadership development portion of their budget and saying listen we're going to budget and saying listen we're going to budget and saying listen we're going to get behind you to develop this kind of get behind you to develop this kind of get behind you to develop this kind of deal but there would also be a pool of deal but there would also be a pool of deal but there would also be a pool of resources that I think the senior leader resources that I think the senior leader resources that I think the senior leader has to hang on to themselves because has to hang on to themselves because has to hang on to themselves because quite frankly quite frankly quite frankly there might be a young leader that you there might be a young leader that you there might be a young leader that you want to put disproportionate leadership want to put disproportionate leadership want to put disproportionate leadership development behind or there might be a development behind or there might be a development behind or there might be a senior leader he says you know this senior leader he says you know this senior leader he says you know this season I need to get them even a little season I need to get them even a little season I need to get them even a little bit more focused so you want to put a bit more focused so you want to put a bit more focused so you want to put a little bit more there but at the end of little bit more there but at the end of little bit more there but at the end of the day uh you can't just have a value the day uh you can't just have a value the day uh you can't just have a value you can't just talk the game right just you can't just talk the game right just you can't just talk the game right just one other important side note on that I one other important side note on that I one other important side note on that I also think it's very important that the also think it's very important that the also think it's very important that the uh the actual plan every every member of uh the actual plan every every member of uh the actual plan every every member of the team I believe needs a plan you need the team I believe needs a plan you need the team I believe needs a plan you need to be able to sit down with your team to be able to sit down with your team to be able to sit down with your team members and say okay let's talk about members and say okay let's talk about members and say okay let's talk about what is your plan for the next 12 months what is your plan for the next 12 months what is your plan for the next 12 months how are you going to develop what are how are you going to develop what are how are you going to develop what are the areas of skills or whatever it is the areas of skills or whatever it is the areas of skills or whatever it is you need to go and work on and the thing you need to go and work on and the thing you need to go and work on and the thing that I always emphasize with my team is

that I always emphasize with my team is that I always emphasize with my team is that I need them to drive the plan not that I need them to drive the plan not that I need them to drive the plan not me because and again let me bring it me because and again let me bring it me because and again let me bring it right down into a local church context right down into a local church context right down into a local church context uh you know I would have the the uh you know I would have the the uh you know I would have the the children's Pastor reporting to me I children's Pastor reporting to me I children's Pastor reporting to me I would have the the worship Pastor would have the the worship Pastor would have the the worship Pastor reporting to me and so on reporting to me and so on reporting to me and so on well quite frankly I don't know anything well quite frankly I don't know anything well quite frankly I don't know anything about children's ministry right I don't about children's ministry right I don't about children's ministry right I don't know anything about worship and arts you know anything about worship and arts you know anything about worship and arts you know from a from that perspective and so know from a from that perspective and so know from a from that perspective and so I say look you've got to come to me with I say look you've got to come to me with I say look you've got to come to me with a plan but I'll help you with it you a plan but I'll help you with it you a plan but I'll help you with it you know and then certainly I'm going to know and then certainly I'm going to know and then certainly I'm going to help you resource that as well one of help you resource that as well one of help you resource that as well one of the things I often found was that the things I often found was that the things I often found was that uh when you when you give people the uh when you when you give people the uh when you when you give people the opportunity to develop their own opportunity to develop their own opportunity to develop their own leadership development plan it's amazing leadership development plan it's amazing leadership development plan it's amazing how creative they can get in a very very how creative they can get in a very very how creative they can get in a very very wonderful way uh every now and then I wonderful way uh every now and then I wonderful way uh every now and then I remember I had one guy up in Canada and remember I had one guy up in Canada and remember I had one guy up in Canada and you can probably imagine Rich that the you can probably imagine Rich that the you can probably imagine Rich that the the winters in Canada could be kind of the winters in Canada could be kind of the winters in Canada could be kind of brutal right one guy that every year it brutal right one guy that every year it brutal right one guy that every year it seemed that his uh his leadership seemed that his uh his leadership seemed that his uh his leadership development plan was always anchored in development plan was always anchored in development plan was always anchored in a conference in February in San Diego a conference in February in San Diego a conference in February in San Diego you got to watch those kind of things you got to watch those kind of things you got to watch those kind of things but I want to know okay what what books but I want to know okay what what books but I want to know okay what what books are you wanting to read this year what are you wanting to read this year what are you wanting to read this year what conferences do you want to attend what conferences do you want to attend what conferences do you want to attend what kind of mentoring networks are you going kind of mentoring networks are you going kind of mentoring networks are you going to get involved with and so on and then to get involved with and so on and then to get involved with and so on and then you walk them through the plan as well you walk them through the plan as well you walk them through the plan as well very cool was there anything else you very cool was there anything else you very cool was there anything else you want to share with our listeners kind of want to share with our listeners kind of want to share with our listeners kind of about leadership development or about leadership development or about leadership development or encouraging them you know to think about encouraging them you know to think about encouraging them you know to think about leadership development in their churches leadership development in their churches leadership development in their churches well again I think that you've got to well again I think that you've got to well again I think that you've got to um you've got to walk with them is what um you've got to walk with them is what um you've got to walk with them is what I would always say you've got to let I would always say you've got to let I would always say you've got to let them know that this is a big deal you've them know that this is a big deal you've them know that this is a big deal you've got to let them know that you are got to let them know that you are got to let them know that you are invested in them in taking this journey

invested in them in taking this journey invested in them in taking this journey with them uh and I would always do that with them uh and I would always do that with them uh and I would always do that in a couple of ways you know first of in a couple of ways you know first of in a couple of ways you know first of all uh you know I'm a huge advocate of all uh you know I'm a huge advocate of all uh you know I'm a huge advocate of the twice a year uh review review the twice a year uh review review the twice a year uh review review conversation and that was never a big conversation and that was never a big conversation and that was never a big scary thing that to me added value to scary thing that to me added value to scary thing that to me added value to people to let them know that every year people to let them know that every year people to let them know that every year in July every year in in January I'm in July every year in in January I'm in July every year in in January I'm going to sit down with Scott and I'm going to sit down with Scott and I'm going to sit down with Scott and I'm going to talk about how things are going going to talk about how things are going going to talk about how things are going well in that conversation I'm going to well in that conversation I'm going to well in that conversation I'm going to talk to them about hey uh you said talk to them about hey uh you said talk to them about hey uh you said you're going to read these books and you're going to read these books and you're going to read these books and you're going to attend these conferences you're going to attend these conferences you're going to attend these conferences uh you said you were going to check out uh you said you were going to check out uh you said you were going to check out Rich Birch's podcast every single week Rich Birch's podcast every single week Rich Birch's podcast every single week and so on and I wonder like so have you and so on and I wonder like so have you and so on and I wonder like so have you been doing that and if not why not uh I been doing that and if not why not uh I been doing that and if not why not uh I would there might have been a number of would there might have been a number of would there might have been a number of reasons for them to tell me that they reasons for them to tell me that they reasons for them to tell me that they weren't able to do something on their weren't able to do something on their weren't able to do something on their plan but I would never let them get away plan but I would never let them get away plan but I would never let them get away with saying well I was 2 busy doing with saying well I was 2 busy doing with saying well I was 2 busy doing ministry right you know because at the ministry right you know because at the ministry right you know because at the end of the day developing yourself end of the day developing yourself end of the day developing yourself that's the value back to the local that's the value back to the local that's the value back to the local church that we need we need you church that we need we need you church that we need we need you improving as you're as you're going improving as you're as you're going improving as you're as you're going along but then the other thing is not along but then the other thing is not along but then the other thing is not only in those twice a year conversations only in those twice a year conversations only in those twice a year conversations is that every week when that person is that every week when that person is that every week when that person comes into my office they knew the first comes into my office they knew the first comes into my office they knew the first question I would probably ask them is so question I would probably ask them is so question I would probably ask them is so what are you reading these days or what what are you reading these days or what what are you reading these days or what have you been listening to what are you have you been listening to what are you have you been listening to what are you learning right now kind of deal learning right now kind of deal learning right now kind of deal and that wasn't simply a way to to and that wasn't simply a way to to and that wasn't simply a way to to insert some accountability I think they insert some accountability I think they insert some accountability I think they knew I'm genuinely interested in this knew I'm genuinely interested in this knew I'm genuinely interested in this yeah I want to know what you're learning yeah I want to know what you're learning yeah I want to know what you're learning let's have a conversation about how let's have a conversation about how let's have a conversation about how you're developing what you're learning you're developing what you're learning you're developing what you're learning and so on so you end up creating a and so on so you end up creating a and so on so you end up creating a leadership development culture in your leadership development culture in your leadership development culture in your church as well this is the on Seminary church as well this is the on Seminary church as well this is the on Seminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in

podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary great well we're gonna jump seminary great well we're gonna jump seminary great well we're gonna jump into the lightning around that part of into the lightning around that part of into the lightning around that part of the show where we ask similar questions the show where we ask similar questions the show where we ask similar questions of folks who are on the show every week of folks who are on the show every week of folks who are on the show every week super excited to have Scott Cochran with super excited to have Scott Cochran with super excited to have Scott Cochran with us from the Willow Creek Association uh us from the Willow Creek Association uh us from the Willow Creek Association uh he's a great leader and super happy to he's a great leader and super happy to he's a great leader and super happy to have him on the show today so Scott what have him on the show today so Scott what have him on the show today so Scott what are some online resources that you're are some online resources that you're are some online resources that you're using these days uh to kind of help your using these days uh to kind of help your using these days uh to kind of help your ministry well this is going to be some ministry well this is going to be some ministry well this is going to be some very very basic but very very basic but very very basic but um my world as you mentioned earlier on um my world as you mentioned earlier on um my world as you mentioned earlier on rich is global okay so what you and I rich is global okay so what you and I rich is global okay so what you and I are doing right now and with your uh are doing right now and with your uh are doing right now and with your uh podcast audience is what I'm doing all podcast audience is what I'm doing all podcast audience is what I'm doing all the time because I work essentially the time because I work essentially the time because I work essentially outside the United States so uh Skype go outside the United States so uh Skype go outside the United States so uh Skype go to meeting and so on those are the tools to meeting and so on those are the tools to meeting and so on those are the tools that tools are the trade for me we're that tools are the trade for me we're that tools are the trade for me we're also developing and exploring a few also developing and exploring a few also developing and exploring a few other options as well right now just to other options as well right now just to other options as well right now just to keep us connected with our leaders keep us connected with our leaders keep us connected with our leaders around the world so if there's an online around the world so if there's an online around the world so if there's an online communication tool chances are it's in communication tool chances are it's in communication tool chances are it's in my bucket someplace right you've tried my bucket someplace right you've tried my bucket someplace right you've tried it yeah that's great well I'm excited it yeah that's great well I'm excited it yeah that's great well I'm excited for this one because you were talking for this one because you were talking for this one because you were talking about books earlier what's a book that about books earlier what's a book that about books earlier what's a book that you've read in the last you know six you've read in the last you know six you've read in the last you know six eight months that's had an impact on eight months that's had an impact on eight months that's had an impact on your thinking or Ministry well you know your thinking or Ministry well you know your thinking or Ministry well you know I I trust that that you and perhaps many I I trust that that you and perhaps many I I trust that that you and perhaps many of your uh many of your audience uh had of your uh many of your audience uh had of your uh many of your audience uh had a chance to check out the Global a chance to check out the Global a chance to check out the Global Leadership Summit this year you know Leadership Summit this year you know Leadership Summit this year you know part of the the joy of my role as I get part of the the joy of my role as I get part of the the joy of my role as I get to to know these leaders and read their to to know these leaders and read their to to know these leaders and read their books and so on well there was one this books and so on well there was one this books and so on well there was one this year that just jumped off the bookshelf year that just jumped off the bookshelf year that just jumped off the bookshelf for me and that was Susan Kane's book for me and that was Susan Kane's book for me and that was Susan Kane's book quiet and it's become a great bestseller quiet and it's become a great bestseller quiet and it's become a great bestseller essentially she had the audacity to

essentially she had the audacity to essentially she had the audacity to suggest that he's in a that even as an suggest that he's in a that even as an suggest that he's in a that even as an introvert You Can Be an Effective leader introvert You Can Be an Effective leader introvert You Can Be an Effective leader as well right and uh for those of us who as well right and uh for those of us who as well right and uh for those of us who are in that personality category of are in that personality category of are in that personality category of being an intro where it was very freeing being an intro where it was very freeing being an intro where it was very freeing and very refreshing to realize wow I'm and very refreshing to realize wow I'm and very refreshing to realize wow I'm not weird even if it enjoys being quiet not weird even if it enjoys being quiet not weird even if it enjoys being quiet sometimes that I can actually lead sometimes that I can actually lead sometimes that I can actually lead effectively in that way as well so quiet effectively in that way as well so quiet effectively in that way as well so quiet by Susan Kane was one of my favorites by Susan Kane was one of my favorites by Susan Kane was one of my favorites this year nice fantastic what are some this year nice fantastic what are some this year nice fantastic what are some other Ministries that you're looking at other Ministries that you're looking at other Ministries that you're looking at um these days you know kind of inspiring um these days you know kind of inspiring um these days you know kind of inspiring you you're kind of learning from who are you you're kind of learning from who are you you're kind of learning from who are some of those some of those some of those well you know there are so many other well you know there are so many other well you know there are so many other great leadership development great leadership development great leadership development organizations I talked about Catalyst uh organizations I talked about Catalyst uh organizations I talked about Catalyst uh earlier as well we learned so much from earlier as well we learned so much from earlier as well we learned so much from an organization like Catalyst uh the an organization like Catalyst uh the an organization like Catalyst uh the main uh the large churches in main uh the large churches in main uh the large churches in in uh North America we learn a lot from in uh North America we learn a lot from in uh North America we learn a lot from we just had our team members over at the we just had our team members over at the we just had our team members over at the movement day in New York just a while movement day in New York just a while movement day in New York just a while ago as well and I think movement day and ago as well and I think movement day and ago as well and I think movement day and the whole um City movement is something the whole um City movement is something the whole um City movement is something we're paying a lot of attention to these we're paying a lot of attention to these we're paying a lot of attention to these days even as we do our work globally days even as we do our work globally days even as we do our work globally because it and as you and your your because it and as you and your your because it and as you and your your guests are familiar with the the city guests are familiar with the the city guests are familiar with the the city movement concept the idea that God movement concept the idea that God movement concept the idea that God really seems to be at work these days in really seems to be at work these days in really seems to be at work these days in the cities he's sort of drawing his uh the cities he's sort of drawing his uh the cities he's sort of drawing his uh his people into the cities and so on his people into the cities and so on his people into the cities and so on well of course we do you know hundreds well of course we do you know hundreds well of course we do you know hundreds and hundreds of Global Leadership Summit and hundreds of Global Leadership Summit and hundreds of Global Leadership Summit events around the world in the heart of events around the world in the heart of events around the world in the heart of cities primarily so we're learning a lot cities primarily so we're learning a lot cities primarily so we're learning a lot right now from the city movement concept right now from the city movement concept right now from the city movement concept as well cool all right so if you could as well cool all right so if you could as well cool all right so if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive

get 15 minutes with any leader alive get 15 minutes with any leader alive today uh that you could just spend some today uh that you could just spend some today uh that you could just spend some time with who would you want to spend time with who would you want to spend time with who would you want to spend that time with and why that's got to be that time with and why that's got to be that time with and why that's got to be a hard question for a guy like you a hard question for a guy like you a hard question for a guy like you because you've spent a lot of time with because you've spent a lot of time with because you've spent a lot of time with a lot of different leaders but who uh a lot of different leaders but who uh a lot of different leaders but who uh who would you want to spend that time who would you want to spend that time who would you want to spend that time with well I don't know if this is going with well I don't know if this is going with well I don't know if this is going to add a lot of value up there right to add a lot of value up there right to add a lot of value up there right because some of them are kind of uh uh because some of them are kind of uh uh because some of them are kind of uh uh Benelli yeah come on that's fine Benelli yeah come on that's fine Benelli yeah come on that's fine um we had a guy at the summit a few um we had a guy at the summit a few um we had a guy at the summit a few years ago that I wish I could have met years ago that I wish I could have met years ago that I wish I could have met and spent time with I didn't get the and spent time with I didn't get the and spent time with I didn't get the chance and that was Tony Blair before chance and that was Tony Blair before chance and that was Tony Blair before prime minister of the United Kingdom uh prime minister of the United Kingdom uh prime minister of the United Kingdom uh just someone like that who led in very just someone like that who led in very just someone like that who led in very tumultuous times with a huge bandwidth tumultuous times with a huge bandwidth tumultuous times with a huge bandwidth of responsibilities I've got a personal of responsibilities I've got a personal of responsibilities I've got a personal uh interest and fascination with the uh interest and fascination with the uh interest and fascination with the global politics and so people of that global politics and so people of that global politics and so people of that level uh have always interested me and level uh have always interested me and level uh have always interested me and to be honest there's a few hockey to be honest there's a few hockey to be honest there's a few hockey players out there like to to meet this players out there like to to meet this players out there like to to meet this poem but as a Canadian you kind of have poem but as a Canadian you kind of have poem but as a Canadian you kind of have to say that nice yeah now which which to say that nice yeah now which which to say that nice yeah now which which hockey team are you cheering for these hockey team are you cheering for these hockey team are you cheering for these days that's got are you a Blackhawks fan days that's got are you a Blackhawks fan days that's got are you a Blackhawks fan now or no okay politically yes I cheer I now or no okay politically yes I cheer I now or no okay politically yes I cheer I cheer for the Blackhawks and I'm cheer for the Blackhawks and I'm cheer for the Blackhawks and I'm cheering them on to the Stanley Cup last cheering them on to the Stanley Cup last cheering them on to the Stanley Cup last year but uh I'm a Vancouver boy so year but uh I'm a Vancouver boy so year but uh I'm a Vancouver boy so you're right and this might be the only you're right and this might be the only you're right and this might be the only day of the whole year that I can say day of the whole year that I can say day of the whole year that I can say that the connects are number one nice that the connects are number one nice that the connects are number one nice great all right well I appreciate today great all right well I appreciate today great all right well I appreciate today just one last question uh you know when just one last question uh you know when just one last question uh you know when you're just looking to kind of kick back you're just looking to kind of kick back you're just looking to kind of kick back relax a little bit relax a little bit relax a little bit um what do you do for fun when you're um what do you do for fun when you're um what do you do for fun when you're not you know involved in global not you know involved in global not you know involved in global domination with the Willow Creek domination with the Willow Creek domination with the Willow Creek Association well I always call it the Association well I always call it the Association well I always call it the the three Rs I love to read I love to the three Rs I love to read I love to the three Rs I love to read I love to run and I love relationships so even as

run and I love relationships so even as run and I love relationships so even as an introvert I love just being with an introvert I love just being with an introvert I love just being with people with our our circle of friends my people with our our circle of friends my people with our our circle of friends my wife and I we have a great circle of wife and I we have a great circle of wife and I we have a great circle of friends here at Willow Creek Church and friends here at Willow Creek Church and friends here at Willow Creek Church and in our neighborhood and so on so usually in our neighborhood and so on so usually in our neighborhood and so on so usually if someone's trying to find me I'm if someone's trying to find me I'm if someone's trying to find me I'm probably having a coffee someplace with probably having a coffee someplace with probably having a coffee someplace with a good friend or reading or taking a run a good friend or reading or taking a run a good friend or reading or taking a run someplace well I appreciate that thanks someplace well I appreciate that thanks someplace well I appreciate that thanks so much Scott if people want to get in so much Scott if people want to get in so much Scott if people want to get in touch with you or with the Willow Creek touch with you or with the Willow Creek touch with you or with the Willow Creek Association how can they do that Association how can they do that Association how can they do that willowcreek.com is our website and you willowcreek.com is our website and you willowcreek.com is our website and you can find all the information about us can find all the information about us can find all the information about us and especially about the next Global and especially about the next Global and especially about the next Global Leadership Summit great thanks so much Leadership Summit great thanks so much Leadership Summit great thanks so much thanks for being on the show today thank thanks for being on the show today thank thanks for being on the show today thank you for tuning in to this week's on you for tuning in to this week's on you for tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd love Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd love Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox to connect check out unseminary inbox to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com and you can sign up at unseminary.com and you can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary