Greg Atkinson on Innovation from a Biblical Perspective

welcome to the on Seminary podcast are welcome to the on Seminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help you looking for practical Ministry help you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on Seminary podcast this week's on Seminary podcast this week's on Seminary podcast all right well hey everybody happy all right well hey everybody happy all right well hey everybody happy Thursday I hope you're having a Thursday I hope you're having a Thursday I hope you're having a fantastic week welcome to the unseminary fantastic week welcome to the unseminary fantastic week welcome to the unseminary podcast thanks for tuning tuning in podcast thanks for tuning tuning in podcast thanks for tuning tuning in thanks for putting us in your earbuds thanks for putting us in your earbuds thanks for putting us in your earbuds today super excited to have Greg today super excited to have Greg today super excited to have Greg Atkinson with us today uh this Greg I Atkinson with us today uh this Greg I Atkinson with us today uh this Greg I think is the only the second person to think is the only the second person to think is the only the second person to ever come on the podcast twice uh and ever come on the podcast twice uh and ever come on the podcast twice uh and you're in for a real treat today Greg you're in for a real treat today Greg you're in for a real treat today Greg welcome to the show welcome to the show welcome to the show thanks for having me I'm thrilled to be thanks for having me I'm thrilled to be thanks for having me I'm thrilled to be back no I Greg's one of those guys I back no I Greg's one of those guys I back no I Greg's one of those guys I appreciate you really should be appreciate you really should be appreciate you really should be following Greg online following Greg online following Greg online um on his blog follow him on Twitter um on his blog follow him on Twitter um on his blog follow him on Twitter he's uh is a thoughtful leader he's uh is a thoughtful leader he's uh is a thoughtful leader um just has a lot of great things to say um just has a lot of great things to say um just has a lot of great things to say um it's actually in the middle of a um it's actually in the middle of a um it's actually in the middle of a transition actually starting a new transition actually starting a new transition actually starting a new church or going to a new position which church or going to a new position which church or going to a new position which we'll talk about at some point but today we'll talk about at some point but today we'll talk about at some point but today what we wanted to do what we wanted to do what we wanted to do um was actually talk about a book that um was actually talk about a book that um was actually talk about a book that Greg's got coming out now normally and I Greg's got coming out now normally and I Greg's got coming out now normally and I said this last time Greg was on the show said this last time Greg was on the show said this last time Greg was on the show and normally I'm not the guy that likes and normally I'm not the guy that likes and normally I'm not the guy that likes to show for other people's books but I to show for other people's books but I to show for other people's books but I would forget so he's got a book coming would forget so he's got a book coming would forget so he's got a book coming out called or it's out called strange out called or it's out called strange out called or it's out called strange leadership now what is why did you call leadership now what is why did you call leadership now what is why did you call your book strange leadership uh 40 ways your book strange leadership uh 40 ways your book strange leadership uh 40 ways to lead an Innovative organization why to lead an Innovative organization why to lead an Innovative organization why why'd you call it that why'd you call it that why'd you call it that great question well yes the book is all great question well yes the book is all great question well yes the book is all about Innovation and it's different from about Innovation and it's different from about Innovation and it's different from a lot of books on Innovation and that a lot of books on Innovation and that a lot of books on Innovation and that it's a Biblical study a Biblical view of it's a Biblical study a Biblical view of it's a Biblical study a Biblical view of innovation but uh it's actually a book

innovation but uh it's actually a book innovation but uh it's actually a book that's six years in the making and that's six years in the making and that's six years in the making and um uh about um uh about um uh about four years ago four years ago four years ago um four or five years ago I was writing um four or five years ago I was writing um four or five years ago I was writing it and uh working on it and uh I was in it and uh working on it and uh I was in it and uh working on it and uh I was in a pastor's office an innovation a pastor's office an innovation a pastor's office an innovation basically is the act of introducing basically is the act of introducing basically is the act of introducing something new so it's all about new something new so it's all about new something new so it's all about new newness and newness and newness and um I was in a office of a pastor friend um I was in a office of a pastor friend um I was in a office of a pastor friend of mine in Georgia and I said hey do you of mine in Georgia and I said hey do you of mine in Georgia and I said hey do you happen to have a thesaurus handy and he happen to have a thesaurus handy and he happen to have a thesaurus handy and he says sure and he grabbed one off the says sure and he grabbed one off the says sure and he grabbed one off the shelf and I looked up the word new and shelf and I looked up the word new and shelf and I looked up the word new and one of the synonyms one of the words for one of the synonyms one of the words for one of the synonyms one of the words for the word new in the thesaurus was the word new in the thesaurus was the word new in the thesaurus was strange and I started I started thinking strange and I started I started thinking strange and I started I started thinking about how over the years when you think about how over the years when you think about how over the years when you think of pioneers and inventors and even uh of pioneers and inventors and even uh of pioneers and inventors and even uh Biblical characters how when somebody Biblical characters how when somebody Biblical characters how when somebody did something new for the first time did something new for the first time did something new for the first time something different something out of the something different something out of the something different something out of the ordinary they were considered strange ordinary they were considered strange ordinary they were considered strange and so I said hey I'm gonna call my book and so I said hey I'm gonna call my book and so I said hey I'm gonna call my book strange leadership I want to tell people strange leadership I want to tell people strange leadership I want to tell people to embrace being a strange leader nice to embrace being a strange leader nice to embrace being a strange leader nice and uh if you're a Pioneer if you're a and uh if you're a Pioneer if you're a and uh if you're a Pioneer if you're a Trailblazer and you're doing something Trailblazer and you're doing something Trailblazer and you're doing something for the first time and it's totally for the first time and it's totally for the first time and it's totally different and out of the box and people different and out of the box and people different and out of the box and people are talking about you uh and calling you are talking about you uh and calling you are talking about you uh and calling you strains maybe it's not such a bad thing strains maybe it's not such a bad thing strains maybe it's not such a bad thing and maybe years from now uh they'll ask and maybe years from now uh they'll ask and maybe years from now uh they'll ask you how you did it and and um so uh it's you how you did it and and um so uh it's you how you did it and and um so uh it's all about embracing that um strange uh all about embracing that um strange uh all about embracing that um strange uh quality that leaders possess very cool

quality that leaders possess very cool quality that leaders possess very cool you know I was at an event uh last month you know I was at an event uh last month you know I was at an event uh last month with Seth Godin and he pushed on a with Seth Godin and he pushed on a with Seth Godin and he pushed on a similar issue where he said similar issue where he said similar issue where he said um you know Gutenberg so the of the of um you know Gutenberg so the of the of um you know Gutenberg so the of the of the Gutenberg Press launched the the Gutenberg Press launched the the Gutenberg Press launched the printing press when 96 of the people in printing press when 96 of the people in printing press when 96 of the people in Europe were illiterate which is Europe were illiterate which is Europe were illiterate which is incredible right so you think here was incredible right so you think here was incredible right so you think here was an a an innovation that no one was an a an innovation that no one was an a an innovation that no one was asking for no one was out saying uh hey asking for no one was out saying uh hey asking for no one was out saying uh hey we need some way to be able to read that we need some way to be able to read that we need some way to be able to read that wasn't what people were saying but that wasn't what people were saying but that wasn't what people were saying but that Innovation ended up obviously changing Innovation ended up obviously changing Innovation ended up obviously changing the world literally changing the world the world literally changing the world the world literally changing the world having a huge impact I guarantee you he having a huge impact I guarantee you he having a huge impact I guarantee you he was considered strange absolutely yeah was considered strange absolutely yeah was considered strange absolutely yeah very strange right and and so and and very strange right and and so and and very strange right and and so and and you know I think innovation in the you know I think innovation in the you know I think innovation in the church is something we should be church is something we should be church is something we should be thinking a lot about and trying to thinking a lot about and trying to thinking a lot about and trying to wrestle through you know how are we wrestle through you know how are we wrestle through you know how are we going to reach you know as uh as our going to reach you know as uh as our going to reach you know as uh as our friends over at Life Church say you know friends over at Life Church say you know friends over at Life Church say you know if you're going to reach people who if you're going to reach people who if you're going to reach people who nobody else is reaching and do stuff nobody else is reaching and do stuff nobody else is reaching and do stuff that nobody else is doing and so that that nobody else is doing and so that that nobody else is doing and so that that's why I appreciate your book I that's why I appreciate your book I that's why I appreciate your book I think it's a great read um and the thing think it's a great read um and the thing think it's a great read um and the thing I love about it is it's broken up into a I love about it is it's broken up into a I love about it is it's broken up into a whole bunch of chapters there's 40 whole bunch of chapters there's 40 whole bunch of chapters there's 40 chapters you could easily pick it out chapters you could easily pick it out chapters you could easily pick it out and say okay this is a great kind of and say okay this is a great kind of and say okay this is a great kind of training tool for our you know our training tool for our you know our training tool for our you know our people let's talk about this today people let's talk about this today people let's talk about this today um you know for you know four folks this um you know for you know four folks this um you know for you know four folks this I just finished reading um Walter Isis I just finished reading um Walter Isis I just finished reading um Walter Isis isaacson's book isaacson's book isaacson's book um he's the guy that wrote that book um he's the guy that wrote that book um he's the guy that wrote that book Steve Jobs and this is kind of his Steve Jobs and this is kind of his Steve Jobs and this is kind of his follow-up it's called the innovators and follow-up it's called the innovators and follow-up it's called the innovators and what it was looking at was what it was looking at was what it was looking at was um really about 130 year period for the um really about 130 year period for the um really about 130 year period for the invention of the personal computer and invention of the personal computer and invention of the personal computer and the internet the internet the internet um or really the information revolution um or really the information revolution um or really the information revolution even broader than the internet and the even broader than the internet and the even broader than the internet and the thing that struck me through that was

thing that struck me through that was thing that struck me through that was there's a lot we can learn from those there's a lot we can learn from those there's a lot we can learn from those leaders and then to read your book at leaders and then to read your book at leaders and then to read your book at the same time was an interesting kind of the same time was an interesting kind of the same time was an interesting kind of uh back and forth from a Biblical uh back and forth from a Biblical uh back and forth from a Biblical perspective about what you know perspective about what you know perspective about what you know Innovation Innovation Innovation um looks like but let's jump in there's um looks like but let's jump in there's um looks like but let's jump in there's a chapter called Inquisition a chapter called Inquisition a chapter called Inquisition um Inquisition what what is that all um Inquisition what what is that all um Inquisition what what is that all about what's that have to do with uh you about what's that have to do with uh you about what's that have to do with uh you know innovation know innovation know innovation yeah well Inquisition is at the very yeah well Inquisition is at the very yeah well Inquisition is at the very beginning of the book uh near the near beginning of the book uh near the near beginning of the book uh near the near the beginning and it's it's a chapter on the beginning and it's it's a chapter on the beginning and it's it's a chapter on prayer and uh it's really the heart and prayer and uh it's really the heart and prayer and uh it's really the heart and soul of the book it's about soul of the book it's about soul of the book it's about um if you wanna do something new if you um if you wanna do something new if you um if you wanna do something new if you want to be Innovative if and when I say want to be Innovative if and when I say want to be Innovative if and when I say Innovative I cover this in in the Innovative I cover this in in the Innovative I cover this in in the introduction I'm talking about following introduction I'm talking about following introduction I'm talking about following the leading of the Holy Spirit the leading of the Holy Spirit the leading of the Holy Spirit um um um um uh um uh um uh if you want if you want that Inquisition if you want if you want that Inquisition if you want if you want that Inquisition is about asking God In Prayer right and is about asking God In Prayer right and is about asking God In Prayer right and um there's a uh a great quote that I um there's a uh a great quote that I um there's a uh a great quote that I included in the book I was at a included in the book I was at a included in the book I was at a conference one time at Church of the conference one time at Church of the conference one time at Church of the Highlands in Birmingham Alabama with Highlands in Birmingham Alabama with Highlands in Birmingham Alabama with Pastor Chris Hodges and he said you Pastor Chris Hodges and he said you Pastor Chris Hodges and he said you can't delegate prayer and it just stuck can't delegate prayer and it just stuck can't delegate prayer and it just stuck with me and everywhere that I've taught with me and everywhere that I've taught with me and everywhere that I've taught on Innovation over the last six years on Innovation over the last six years on Innovation over the last six years all over North America I've said there all over North America I've said there all over North America I've said there is no shortcut to Innovation you cannot is no shortcut to Innovation you cannot is no shortcut to Innovation you cannot bypass prayer and so um Inquisition is a bypass prayer and so um Inquisition is a bypass prayer and so um Inquisition is a key chapter about the posture in which key chapter about the posture in which key chapter about the posture in which we approach God how we come to God and I

we approach God how we come to God and I we approach God how we come to God and I share a story of A co-worker many years share a story of A co-worker many years share a story of A co-worker many years ago it was uh nearly 15 years ago that I ago it was uh nearly 15 years ago that I ago it was uh nearly 15 years ago that I worked with a A co-worker a small group worked with a A co-worker a small group worked with a A co-worker a small group leader named Beth and uh I was used to leader named Beth and uh I was used to leader named Beth and uh I was used to praying God show us God lead us God praying God show us God lead us God praying God show us God lead us God guide us God give us you know and guide us God give us you know and guide us God give us you know and telling God what to do and we were we telling God what to do and we were we telling God what to do and we were we were in a in a team prayer and she said were in a in a team prayer and she said were in a in a team prayer and she said God how can we and she asked God a God how can we and she asked God a God how can we and she asked God a question as if she expected him to question as if she expected him to question as if she expected him to answer hmm like like it's a conversation answer hmm like like it's a conversation answer hmm like like it's a conversation and a dialogue and so it just it changed and a dialogue and so it just it changed and a dialogue and so it just it changed my view of prayer when she just simply my view of prayer when she just simply my view of prayer when she just simply asked how can we blank and I I just was asked how can we blank and I I just was asked how can we blank and I I just was stunned and I thought I've never heard stunned and I thought I've never heard stunned and I thought I've never heard anybody just ask God a question and wait anybody just ask God a question and wait anybody just ask God a question and wait for his answer and so um that's that's for his answer and so um that's that's for his answer and so um that's that's basically what Innovation is about basically what Innovation is about basically what Innovation is about um there's a lot of scriptures I share um there's a lot of scriptures I share um there's a lot of scriptures I share up front in the book that are up front in the book that are up front in the book that are foundational to strange leadership foundational to strange leadership foundational to strange leadership um when we talk about the act of um when we talk about the act of um when we talk about the act of introducing something new I talk about introducing something new I talk about introducing something new I talk about God being the chief innovator and I God being the chief innovator and I God being the chief innovator and I reference Isaiah 43 19 where God says reference Isaiah 43 19 where God says reference Isaiah 43 19 where God says I'm about to do something brand new can I'm about to do something brand new can I'm about to do something brand new can you not see it as bursting out and I you not see it as bursting out and I you not see it as bursting out and I talk about God doing new things and talk about God doing new things and talk about God doing new things and um um um and then there's some some great and then there's some some great and then there's some some great scriptures uh a great scripture in the scriptures uh a great scripture in the scriptures uh a great scripture in the message which I love uh checking out message which I love uh checking out message which I love uh checking out things in the message it just really things in the message it just really things in the message it just really refreshes me but Ephesians 5 1 is watch

refreshes me but Ephesians 5 1 is watch refreshes me but Ephesians 5 1 is watch what God does and then you do it and the what God does and then you do it and the what God does and then you do it and the reason that that scripture is reason that that scripture is reason that that scripture is foundational to the book is I say early foundational to the book is I say early foundational to the book is I say early on in the introduction that 20 years ago on in the introduction that 20 years ago on in the introduction that 20 years ago nearly 20 years ago I was heavily nearly 20 years ago I was heavily nearly 20 years ago I was heavily influencing my own Christian journey by influencing my own Christian journey by influencing my own Christian journey by Henry blackaby's book Experiencing God Henry blackaby's book Experiencing God Henry blackaby's book Experiencing God yeah definitely and and blackaby talks yeah definitely and and blackaby talks yeah definitely and and blackaby talks about about about um joining God where he's at work and so um joining God where he's at work and so um joining God where he's at work and so Ephesians 5 1 watch what God does and Ephesians 5 1 watch what God does and Ephesians 5 1 watch what God does and then you do it then you do it then you do it um join God where he's at work that's um join God where he's at work that's um join God where he's at work that's what I mean by being Innovative people what I mean by being Innovative people what I mean by being Innovative people um sometimes think that when they see a um sometimes think that when they see a um sometimes think that when they see a book on Innovation that it's about being book on Innovation that it's about being book on Innovation that it's about being cool or trendy or the next big thing and cool or trendy or the next big thing and cool or trendy or the next big thing and uh if you read if you take time to read uh if you read if you take time to read uh if you read if you take time to read the introduction you'll see that my the introduction you'll see that my the introduction you'll see that my heart is let's just follow the spirit of heart is let's just follow the spirit of heart is let's just follow the spirit of God and see where he leads I love at the God and see where he leads I love at the God and see where he leads I love at the beginning of your introduction or it beginning of your introduction or it beginning of your introduction or it might have been the forward no I guess might have been the forward no I guess might have been the forward no I guess it'd be an introduction because you it'd be an introduction because you it'd be an introduction because you wrote the introduction not not uh not wrote the introduction not not uh not wrote the introduction not not uh not the forward the forward the forward um you know you write off you say like um you know you write off you say like um you know you write off you say like hey there's a lot of scripture in this hey there's a lot of scripture in this hey there's a lot of scripture in this book I'm just letting you know right up book I'm just letting you know right up book I'm just letting you know right up front because that's what it's based on front because that's what it's based on front because that's what it's based on which is uh I don't think I've ever read which is uh I don't think I've ever read which is uh I don't think I've ever read a book that right from the beginning a book that right from the beginning a book that right from the beginning just letting you know there's a lot of just letting you know there's a lot of just letting you know there's a lot of biblings that's fantastic yes biblings that's fantastic yes biblings that's fantastic yes um so now has there been anything as you um so now has there been anything as you um so now has there been anything as you know kind of as the books out there now know kind of as the books out there now know kind of as the books out there now in the wild any kind of interesting in the wild any kind of interesting in the wild any kind of interesting stories that's come back from people stories that's come back from people stories that's come back from people that have read the book or kind of that have read the book or kind of that have read the book or kind of impact it's had on them impact it's had on them impact it's had on them yeah um there's a ton of people still yeah um there's a ton of people still yeah um there's a ton of people still reading it because it is a long book reading it because it is a long book reading it because it is a long book this is probably the longest book I will this is probably the longest book I will this is probably the longest book I will ever write ever write ever write it's true I have it on my Kindle and

it's true I have it on my Kindle and it's true I have it on my Kindle and it's heavy yeah it's heavy yeah it's heavy yeah yeah I uh I I always tell people I've yeah I uh I I always tell people I've yeah I uh I I always tell people I've got a lot of books in me and I'm writing got a lot of books in me and I'm writing got a lot of books in me and I'm writing a book right now and but they but they a book right now and but they but they a book right now and but they but they won't uh they won't always be this long won't uh they won't always be this long won't uh they won't always be this long this book was uh over 101 000 words it's this book was uh over 101 000 words it's this book was uh over 101 000 words it's a 388 page book it took me a a full year a 388 page book it took me a a full year a 388 page book it took me a a full year to sit down and write and it was a six to sit down and write and it was a six to sit down and write and it was a six year Journey but year Journey but year Journey but um this is just very close and dear to um this is just very close and dear to um this is just very close and dear to my heart but it won't always be like my heart but it won't always be like my heart but it won't always be like that but uh but there are some Troopers that but uh but there are some Troopers that but uh but there are some Troopers that have taking it maybe uh a chapter a that have taking it maybe uh a chapter a that have taking it maybe uh a chapter a day or a chapter a week and have gone day or a chapter a week and have gone day or a chapter a week and have gone through since this release then have through since this release then have through since this release then have read it and left some great uh reviews read it and left some great uh reviews read it and left some great uh reviews but um what I'm hearing is how people but um what I'm hearing is how people but um what I'm hearing is how people are using it with their teams with their are using it with their teams with their are using it with their teams with their leadership teams and with their staff if leadership teams and with their staff if leadership teams and with their staff if you go to the books website you go to the books website you go to the books website strangeleadership.com there's a free strangeleadership.com there's a free strangeleadership.com there's a free team discuss question guide download and team discuss question guide download and team discuss question guide download and that's an idea I stole from Andy Stanley that's an idea I stole from Andy Stanley that's an idea I stole from Andy Stanley uh when he released deep and wide which uh when he released deep and wide which uh when he released deep and wide which is a great book is a great book is a great book um he had a free team discussion guide um he had a free team discussion guide um he had a free team discussion guide and I thought that was a great idea so and I thought that was a great idea so and I thought that was a great idea so um so on the book website um so on the book website um so on the book website strangeleadership.com you can download a strangeleadership.com you can download a strangeleadership.com you can download a free team discussion guide and I had free team discussion guide and I had free team discussion guide and I had somebody else write it because I wanted somebody else write it because I wanted somebody else write it because I wanted another person's perspective so somebody another person's perspective so somebody another person's perspective so somebody else uh read the book and then wrote else uh read the book and then wrote else uh read the book and then wrote discussion chat uh questions after each discussion chat uh questions after each discussion chat uh questions after each chapter and so uh there are teams that chapter and so uh there are teams that chapter and so uh there are teams that are going just a chapter a week and are going just a chapter a week and are going just a chapter a week and they're they're reading chapter one

they're they're reading chapter one they're they're reading chapter one their discussion chapter one then they their discussion chapter one then they their discussion chapter one then they read chapter two and they discuss read chapter two and they discuss read chapter two and they discuss chapter two and they're using the team chapter two and they're using the team chapter two and they're using the team discussion guide and and I look forward discussion guide and and I look forward discussion guide and and I look forward to when they finish going through that to when they finish going through that to when they finish going through that as a team hearing more stories come in as a team hearing more stories come in as a team hearing more stories come in but but but um but it's it's also uh a long tail um but it's it's also uh a long tail um but it's it's also uh a long tail book you know I I didn't write this book you know I I didn't write this book you know I I didn't write this hoping just that uh uh a few people hoping just that uh uh a few people hoping just that uh uh a few people would buy it right away I wanted this to would buy it right away I wanted this to would buy it right away I wanted this to be the reason the focus is is a Biblical be the reason the focus is is a Biblical be the reason the focus is is a Biblical view of innovation is I wanted you to be view of innovation is I wanted you to be view of innovation is I wanted you to be able to pick this up five or ten years able to pick this up five or ten years able to pick this up five or ten years from now and it still be relevant right from now and it still be relevant right from now and it still be relevant right and um and um and um you know I was teaching at a conference you know I was teaching at a conference you know I was teaching at a conference recently on Innovation and I asked what recently on Innovation and I asked what recently on Innovation and I asked what do you think of when you think of do you think of when you think of do you think of when you think of innovation and somebody said technology innovation and somebody said technology innovation and somebody said technology and I said you know I say in the book and I said you know I say in the book and I said you know I say in the book that Innovation and Technology are not that Innovation and Technology are not that Innovation and Technology are not synonymous and um out of the 40 chapters synonymous and um out of the 40 chapters synonymous and um out of the 40 chapters only two even mentioned technology only two even mentioned technology only two even mentioned technology there's 38 chapters that have nothing to there's 38 chapters that have nothing to there's 38 chapters that have nothing to do with technology and that there was a do with technology and that there was a do with technology and that there was a reason behind that because again I want reason behind that because again I want reason behind that because again I want you 10 years from now to pick this up you 10 years from now to pick this up you 10 years from now to pick this up and to read it and it to be founded on and to read it and it to be founded on and to read it and it to be founded on biblical Bedrock scripture uh principles biblical Bedrock scripture uh principles biblical Bedrock scripture uh principles and uh be applicable to you whenever you and uh be applicable to you whenever you and uh be applicable to you whenever you read it and so my my hope and dream for read it and so my my hope and dream for read it and so my my hope and dream for this uh pray with me uh is is that it's this uh pray with me uh is is that it's this uh pray with me uh is is that it's uh it's it becomes a textbook and it's uh it's it becomes a textbook and it's uh it's it becomes a textbook and it's used in Bible colleges and seminaries used in Bible colleges and seminaries used in Bible colleges and seminaries I'm actually teaching on it uh in I'm actually teaching on it uh in I'm actually teaching on it uh in January at Nebraska Christian College

January at Nebraska Christian College January at Nebraska Christian College I'm taking I'm teaching a week-long I'm taking I'm teaching a week-long I'm taking I'm teaching a week-long intensive class on Innovative leadership intensive class on Innovative leadership intensive class on Innovative leadership and I'm using my books my book is a and I'm using my books my book is a and I'm using my books my book is a textbook and I'm using Larry Osborne's textbook and I'm using Larry Osborne's textbook and I'm using Larry Osborne's uh Innovations dirty little secret right uh Innovations dirty little secret right uh Innovations dirty little secret right as a textbook and those two together as a textbook and those two together as a textbook and those two together because they complement each other well because they complement each other well because they complement each other well his is very uh practical here's how we his is very uh practical here's how we his is very uh practical here's how we do it at my church and and mine is do it at my church and and mine is do it at my church and and mine is here's some biblical examples and models here's some biblical examples and models here's some biblical examples and models and principles so I'm going to use those and principles so I'm going to use those and principles so I'm going to use those together to teach but together to teach but together to teach but um and I hope the stories keep coming in um and I hope the stories keep coming in um and I hope the stories keep coming in but uh God God is using it and I'm I'm but uh God God is using it and I'm I'm but uh God God is using it and I'm I'm thrilled very cool is there a church or thrilled very cool is there a church or thrilled very cool is there a church or kind of a cluster of churches that you kind of a cluster of churches that you kind of a cluster of churches that you refer to time and time again throughout refer to time and time again throughout refer to time and time again throughout the church or throughout the book you're the church or throughout the book you're the church or throughout the book you're like wow these these guys just seem to like wow these these guys just seem to like wow these these guys just seem to have it right from an innovation point have it right from an innovation point have it right from an innovation point of view is there someone you come back of view is there someone you come back of view is there someone you come back to time to time again um um interviewed several church leaders uh interviewed several church leaders uh interviewed several church leaders uh four years ago that I quote four years ago that I quote four years ago that I quote um um um um Pete Wilson at Cross Point in um Pete Wilson at Cross Point in um Pete Wilson at Cross Point in Nashville I I share some of their story Nashville I I share some of their story Nashville I I share some of their story and quote him but the one I quote the and quote him but the one I quote the and quote him but the one I quote the most uh strangely enough was Larry most uh strangely enough was Larry most uh strangely enough was Larry Osborne right uh back when I was writing Osborne right uh back when I was writing Osborne right uh back when I was writing this uh four years ago he hadn't written this uh four years ago he hadn't written this uh four years ago he hadn't written his book on Innovation yet and so uh he his book on Innovation yet and so uh he his book on Innovation yet and so uh he sent me his uh answers to my questions sent me his uh answers to my questions sent me his uh answers to my questions and I put it in the book and then I read and I put it in the book and then I read and I put it in the book and then I read his book and it's very similar because his book and it's very similar because his book and it's very similar because um he was obviously marinating and um he was obviously marinating and um he was obviously marinating and chewing on it and uh thinking about what chewing on it and uh thinking about what chewing on it and uh thinking about what uh he was he was gonna write but uh

uh he was he was gonna write but uh uh he was he was gonna write but uh Larry Osborne is a hero of mine and Larry Osborne is a hero of mine and Larry Osborne is a hero of mine and somebody I really look up to and so I I somebody I really look up to and so I I somebody I really look up to and so I I talk about North Coast a lot and um they talk about North Coast a lot and um they talk about North Coast a lot and um they they have uh they have uh they have uh um um um strategic prayerful but yet Fearless strategic prayerful but yet Fearless strategic prayerful but yet Fearless approach to Innovation and they are they approach to Innovation and they are they approach to Innovation and they are they are not afraid to try something right are not afraid to try something right are not afraid to try something right um uh just today on uh on Facebook I saw um uh just today on uh on Facebook I saw um uh just today on uh on Facebook I saw uh Willow Creek's Global Leadership uh Willow Creek's Global Leadership uh Willow Creek's Global Leadership Summit post a quote by brene Brown that Summit post a quote by brene Brown that Summit post a quote by brene Brown that says without failure there can be no says without failure there can be no says without failure there can be no innovation and I wholeheartedly agree innovation and I wholeheartedly agree innovation and I wholeheartedly agree and I have I have uh chapters where I and I have I have uh chapters where I and I have I have uh chapters where I talk about failure and exploration and talk about failure and exploration and talk about failure and exploration and experimentation and trying things out experimentation and trying things out experimentation and trying things out but Larry Osborne is a champion of that but Larry Osborne is a champion of that but Larry Osborne is a champion of that and somebody I I really look up to I I and somebody I I really look up to I I and somebody I I really look up to I I highly recommend that people check out highly recommend that people check out highly recommend that people check out his book Innovations Dirty Little Secret his book Innovations Dirty Little Secret his book Innovations Dirty Little Secret um they talk about and I talk about it um they talk about and I talk about it um they talk about and I talk about it in the book they talk about every year in the book they talk about every year in the book they talk about every year they go away on a zero base planning they go away on a zero base planning they go away on a zero base planning Retreat and this is where the the Retreat and this is where the the Retreat and this is where the the leadership team gets away and they say leadership team gets away and they say leadership team gets away and they say if we were starting from scratch if we if we were starting from scratch if we if we were starting from scratch if we started completely over as a church started completely over as a church started completely over as a church plant what would we do and what would plant what would we do and what would plant what would we do and what would not make it what would we not do right not make it what would we not do right not make it what would we not do right and and they um and and they um and and they um they they choose to kill or cut Things they they choose to kill or cut Things they they choose to kill or cut Things based on that planning Retreat if we based on that planning Retreat if we based on that planning Retreat if we were starting over we wouldn't do this were starting over we wouldn't do this were starting over we wouldn't do this so let's not do it and uh as you know so let's not do it and uh as you know so let's not do it and uh as you know there's a chapter that's very close to

there's a chapter that's very close to there's a chapter that's very close to my heart in the book on subtraction my heart in the book on subtraction my heart in the book on subtraction again being being willing to kill a again being being willing to kill a again being being willing to kill a Ministry and um uh part of what I loved Ministry and um uh part of what I loved Ministry and um uh part of what I loved we there in that chapter that chapter we there in that chapter that chapter we there in that chapter that chapter particularly you know you said a lot of particularly you know you said a lot of particularly you know you said a lot of times we think about Innovation and what times we think about Innovation and what times we think about Innovation and what we what we mean is we mean we're adding we what we mean is we mean we're adding we what we mean is we mean we're adding things to what we're doing and you said things to what we're doing and you said things to what we're doing and you said you know which it was a great Insight you know which it was a great Insight you know which it was a great Insight you were um kind of pivoting off of I you were um kind of pivoting off of I you were um kind of pivoting off of I believe it was Andy Stanley you know who believe it was Andy Stanley you know who believe it was Andy Stanley you know who was saying hey you know when was saying hey you know when was saying hey you know when um people get up on a Sunday and talk um people get up on a Sunday and talk um people get up on a Sunday and talk about we're going to do something new or about we're going to do something new or about we're going to do something new or we're going to make an innovation we're going to make an innovation we're going to make an innovation everybody's excited and if you're really everybody's excited and if you're really everybody's excited and if you're really good you might even get a clap about it good you might even get a clap about it good you might even get a clap about it um but uh what won't happen is when you um but uh what won't happen is when you um but uh what won't happen is when you talk to little and you know Bessie or talk to little and you know Bessie or talk to little and you know Bessie or whatever when you're going to cut her whatever when you're going to cut her whatever when you're going to cut her program program program um that's when it starts to fall apart um that's when it starts to fall apart um that's when it starts to fall apart for people subtraction is hard why do for people subtraction is hard why do for people subtraction is hard why do you think subtraction is so hard for you think subtraction is so hard for you think subtraction is so hard for churches today churches today churches today man that is the million dollar question man that is the million dollar question man that is the million dollar question you know I I teach at conferences i s you know I I teach at conferences i s you know I I teach at conferences i s I've spoke I've spoke I've spoke um eight years eight different times um eight years eight different times um eight years eight different times that the Moody Bible Pastors conference that the Moody Bible Pastors conference that the Moody Bible Pastors conference and I've taught pastors from all over and I've taught pastors from all over and I've taught pastors from all over the world and this is the point of most the world and this is the point of most the world and this is the point of most tension right tension right tension right um there there is something when I talk um there there is something when I talk um there there is something when I talk about sometimes I'll say something just about sometimes I'll say something just about sometimes I'll say something just to throw it out there and stir the to throw it out there and stir the to throw it out there and stir the waters but I'll say hey if you're a waters but I'll say hey if you're a waters but I'll say hey if you're a church that has 300 in worship on Sunday church that has 300 in worship on Sunday church that has 300 in worship on Sunday morning and only 30 come back on Sunday morning and only 30 come back on Sunday morning and only 30 come back on Sunday night it might be time to kill your night it might be time to kill your night it might be time to kill your Sunday night service and Sunday night service and Sunday night service and um that's hard for churches

um that's hard for churches um that's hard for churches um you know when you when you look at a um you know when you when you look at a um you know when you when you look at a lot of vibrant healthy booming growing lot of vibrant healthy booming growing lot of vibrant healthy booming growing churches churches churches uh they're they are in Craig Rochelle uh they're they are in Craig Rochelle uh they're they are in Craig Rochelle who I quote throughout the book talks who I quote throughout the book talks who I quote throughout the book talks about this a lot in his book it they are about this a lot in his book it they are about this a lot in his book it they are very streamlined they're very focused very streamlined they're very focused very streamlined they're very focused and they Stanley covered this in the uh and they Stanley covered this in the uh and they Stanley covered this in the uh seven effective practices of church seven effective practices of church seven effective practices of church ministry in his book ministry in his book ministry in his book um they talk about any Stanley talks um they talk about any Stanley talks um they talk about any Stanley talks about narrowing the focus and churches about narrowing the focus and churches about narrowing the focus and churches that are thriving do a few things and do that are thriving do a few things and do that are thriving do a few things and do them very well right and I talk about them very well right and I talk about them very well right and I talk about this whole concept which was ingrained this whole concept which was ingrained this whole concept which was ingrained in me through the book Simple Church I'm in me through the book Simple Church I'm in me through the book Simple Church I'm gonna keep plugging other people's books gonna keep plugging other people's books gonna keep plugging other people's books but uh Simple Church is is like uh next but uh Simple Church is is like uh next but uh Simple Church is is like uh next to the Bible and in my house but to the Bible and in my house but to the Bible and in my house but um um um uh basically they talk about you can uh basically they talk about you can uh basically they talk about you can accomplish more by doing less and um a accomplish more by doing less and um a accomplish more by doing less and um a lot of churches that I see that cannot lot of churches that I see that cannot lot of churches that I see that cannot get over the hundred hump or the 200 get over the hundred hump or the 200 get over the hundred hump or the 200 barrier uh they are busy every night of barrier uh they are busy every night of barrier uh they are busy every night of the week right they've got the Monday the week right they've got the Monday the week right they've got the Monday night visitation the Wednesday night night visitation the Wednesday night night visitation the Wednesday night prayer meeting the uh Sunday morning prayer meeting the uh Sunday morning prayer meeting the uh Sunday morning service Sunday night service and that service Sunday night service and that service Sunday night service and that Pastor is preparing three different Pastor is preparing three different Pastor is preparing three different messages right a Sunday morning message messages right a Sunday morning message messages right a Sunday morning message a Sunday night message and a Wednesday a Sunday night message and a Wednesday a Sunday night message and a Wednesday night message right and I I talk about night message right and I I talk about night message right and I I talk about this principle that I've had for years this principle that I've had for years this principle that I've had for years uh you've only got a hundred percent you uh you've only got a hundred percent you uh you've only got a hundred percent you can divide that up however you want but can divide that up however you want but can divide that up however you want but it's still going to equal 100 percent it's still going to equal 100 percent it's still going to equal 100 percent right why not give 100 to that Sunday

right why not give 100 to that Sunday right why not give 100 to that Sunday morning message that the most ears are morning message that the most ears are morning message that the most ears are going to hear right instead of taking a going to hear right instead of taking a going to hear right instead of taking a piece out of that pie and working on a piece out of that pie and working on a piece out of that pie and working on a second sermon or a third sermon um and second sermon or a third sermon um and second sermon or a third sermon um and so it's it's a struggle for a lot of so it's it's a struggle for a lot of so it's it's a struggle for a lot of people people people um it's something I love teaching on and um it's something I love teaching on and um it's something I love teaching on and that's why I'm excited to teach this to that's why I'm excited to teach this to that's why I'm excited to teach this to college students in 2015 but um uh if college students in 2015 but um uh if college students in 2015 but um uh if you can learn early on and where I first you can learn early on and where I first you can learn early on and where I first heard this was many years ago at the heard this was many years ago at the heard this was many years ago at the Catalyst conference Andy Stanley taught Catalyst conference Andy Stanley taught Catalyst conference Andy Stanley taught a uh a message called the blessedness of a uh a message called the blessedness of a uh a message called the blessedness of subtraction and he said no Ministry has subtraction and he said no Ministry has subtraction and he said no Ministry has a forever shelf life right and that that a forever shelf life right and that that a forever shelf life right and that that stuck with me absolutely no Ministry has stuck with me absolutely no Ministry has stuck with me absolutely no Ministry has a forever self-life and um uh it's a a forever self-life and um uh it's a a forever self-life and um uh it's a chapter that I refer back to often in chapter that I refer back to often in chapter that I refer back to often in the book uh I'll I'll be talking about the book uh I'll I'll be talking about the book uh I'll I'll be talking about something totally different and then something totally different and then something totally different and then I'll throw in for some of you you need I'll throw in for some of you you need I'll throw in for some of you you need to go back and reread the subtraction to go back and reread the subtraction to go back and reread the subtraction chat right right but um it's a it's a chat right right but um it's a it's a chat right right but um it's a it's a tough one absolutely you know at our tough one absolutely you know at our tough one absolutely you know at our church we've just gone through this we church we've just gone through this we church we've just gone through this we we you know as we kind of were we you know as we kind of were we you know as we kind of were evaluating this year and looking into evaluating this year and looking into evaluating this year and looking into next year next year next year um there were two events that are I um there were two events that are I um there were two events that are I would say have have high emotional value would say have have high emotional value would say have have high emotional value for us for us for us um that we've canceled for next year one um that we've canceled for next year one um that we've canceled for next year one we do a and I've actually blogged about we do a and I've actually blogged about we do a and I've actually blogged about it I've had a bunch of people talk about it I've had a bunch of people talk about it I've had a bunch of people talk about it we we do this 5K we've done this 5K it we we do this 5K we've done this 5K it we we do this 5K we've done this 5K that raises money for clean drinking that raises money for clean drinking that raises money for clean drinking water and in fact the organization that water and in fact the organization that water and in fact the organization that we we most of the resources from that

we we most of the resources from that we we most of the resources from that have gone towards they came to it last have gone towards they came to it last have gone towards they came to it last year and they say you know this is the year and they say you know this is the year and they say you know this is the largest single largest single largest single um uh sports event like this that um uh sports event like this that um uh sports event like this that supports our ministry they're like a 25 supports our ministry they're like a 25 supports our ministry they're like a 25 million dollar organization and we million dollar organization and we million dollar organization and we decided to cancel it for next year we're decided to cancel it for next year we're decided to cancel it for next year we're not doing it because we found this year not doing it because we found this year not doing it because we found this year um we still had good turnout but it just um we still had good turnout but it just um we still had good turnout but it just took a lot more effort to get people to took a lot more effort to get people to took a lot more effort to get people to come to we were having to manufacture come to we were having to manufacture come to we were having to manufacture energy for it we were jumping up and energy for it we were jumping up and energy for it we were jumping up and down saying come to this come to this down saying come to this come to this down saying come to this come to this come to this and we realized that's a come to this and we realized that's a come to this and we realized that's a good sign for us to say we need to turn good sign for us to say we need to turn good sign for us to say we need to turn the corner and say okay we need to find the corner and say okay we need to find the corner and say okay we need to find something else we need a brand new wine something else we need a brand new wine something else we need a brand new wine skin uh to put that same passion which skin uh to put that same passion which skin uh to put that same passion which is a passion for helping people with is a passion for helping people with is a passion for helping people with clean drinking get clean drinking water clean drinking get clean drinking water clean drinking get clean drinking water but we need something new which for us but we need something new which for us but we need something new which for us was a risk because it's it's positive was a risk because it's it's positive was a risk because it's it's positive people like it um and it raised us a people like it um and it raised us a people like it um and it raised us a bunch of money every year and so next bunch of money every year and so next bunch of money every year and so next year we're gonna have to do something year we're gonna have to do something year we're gonna have to do something different and we're working on what you different and we're working on what you different and we're working on what you know that could be or we do this the know that could be or we do this the know that could be or we do this the other part of it was we do the summer other part of it was we do the summer other part of it was we do the summer camp which um camp which um camp which um was a a great program a lot of fun you was a a great program a lot of fun you was a a great program a lot of fun you know it kind of is a little bit of the know it kind of is a little bit of the know it kind of is a little bit of the feather in our kids ministry cap every feather in our kids ministry cap every feather in our kids ministry cap every year they finish off the year really year they finish off the year really year they finish off the year really with that and it makes it you know they with that and it makes it you know they with that and it makes it you know they love it and they put a lot of energy love it and they put a lot of energy love it and they put a lot of energy into it but you know we've said this into it but you know we've said this into it but you know we've said this doesn't help us reach people who aren't doesn't help us reach people who aren't doesn't help us reach people who aren't from outside our church you know it's from outside our church you know it's from outside our church you know it's fundamentally yeah there's a few but the fundamentally yeah there's a few but the fundamentally yeah there's a few but the majority of it is really just serving majority of it is really just serving majority of it is really just serving our own kids and so that we don't really our own kids and so that we don't really our own kids and so that we don't really want to do that and so that one although want to do that and so that one although want to do that and so that one although we're not public on that one yet so I'm we're not public on that one yet so I'm we're not public on that one yet so I'm sure both these were not public ones I sure both these were not public ones I sure both these were not public ones I don't know if any people from our church don't know if any people from our church don't know if any people from our church listen they're going to hear that listen they're going to hear that listen they're going to hear that um but that you know I expect um but that you know I expect um but that you know I expect particularly on that second one I think

particularly on that second one I think particularly on that second one I think there's going to be a bit of uh some there's going to be a bit of uh some there's going to be a bit of uh some pain on that right we're going to have pain on that right we're going to have pain on that right we're going to have some leaders say because people for some leaders say because people for some leaders say because people for years have been giving up a week of years have been giving up a week of years have been giving up a week of their family vacation they've been their family vacation they've been their family vacation they've been saying hey I'm not gonna go on whatever saying hey I'm not gonna go on whatever saying hey I'm not gonna go on whatever I'm gonna take a week off work and come I'm gonna take a week off work and come I'm gonna take a week off work and come work for you guys work for you guys work for you guys um and so but again you know we're um and so but again you know we're um and so but again you know we're trying to cut that which is hard that trying to cut that which is hard that trying to cut that which is hard that those are hard decisions to come to well those are hard decisions to come to well those are hard decisions to come to well is there anything else oh sorry go ahead is there anything else oh sorry go ahead is there anything else oh sorry go ahead you you touch on something key and my at you you touch on something key and my at you you touch on something key and my at my last church we cut something that the my last church we cut something that the my last church we cut something that the church had been doing for years and I church had been doing for years and I church had been doing for years and I know what the pain you're talking about know what the pain you're talking about know what the pain you're talking about and what that's like and uh I've and what that's like and uh I've and what that's like and uh I've actually cut several things throughout actually cut several things throughout actually cut several things throughout the years but you said something that I the years but you said something that I the years but you said something that I learned from Chris Hodges uh I got to learned from Chris Hodges uh I got to learned from Chris Hodges uh I got to spend a lot of time with him back when I spend a lot of time with him back when I spend a lot of time with him back when I used to coach Church planners with Arc used to coach Church planners with Arc used to coach Church planners with Arc and and go to a lot of the arc training and and go to a lot of the arc training and and go to a lot of the arc training but uh he said you mentioned you said in but uh he said you mentioned you said in but uh he said you mentioned you said in passing we were having to manufacture passing we were having to manufacture passing we were having to manufacture energy for something and Chris Hodges energy for something and Chris Hodges energy for something and Chris Hodges says at Church of the Highlands they says at Church of the Highlands they says at Church of the Highlands they never prop up any Ministry he says if if never prop up any Ministry he says if if never prop up any Ministry he says if if it needs an announcement from the pulpit it needs an announcement from the pulpit it needs an announcement from the pulpit right it gets cut right if if we have to right it gets cut right if if we have to right it gets cut right if if we have to stand up and beg people please come to stand up and beg people please come to stand up and beg people please come to this ministry it's gone right and uh and this ministry it's gone right and uh and this ministry it's gone right and uh and that's a key indicator if you're having that's a key indicator if you're having that's a key indicator if you're having a manufacture energy for it that's huge a manufacture energy for it that's huge a manufacture energy for it that's huge absolutely well anything you'd love to absolutely well anything you'd love to absolutely well anything you'd love to share with folks before we jump into share with folks before we jump into share with folks before we jump into obviously we want people to to get out obviously we want people to to get out obviously we want people to to get out and get the book we'll we'll provide and get the book we'll we'll provide and get the book we'll we'll provide links in the show notes uh but anything links in the show notes uh but anything links in the show notes uh but anything else before we jump into the lightning else before we jump into the lightning else before we jump into the lightning round round round um for today's episode um for today's episode um for today's episode no I would just say that um

no I would just say that um no I would just say that um um um um I saved the best chapters for the end of I saved the best chapters for the end of I saved the best chapters for the end of the book my my the last five chapters the book my my the last five chapters the book my my the last five chapters are my favorite and so even though it's are my favorite and so even though it's are my favorite and so even though it's a long book stick with it they the a long book stick with it they the a long book stick with it they the chapters build upon each other and I chapters build upon each other and I chapters build upon each other and I reference each other uh throughout the reference each other uh throughout the reference each other uh throughout the book but keep on trucking even if it's a book but keep on trucking even if it's a book but keep on trucking even if it's a chapter a week and it's and I know a chapter a week and it's and I know a chapter a week and it's and I know a pastor that did this took 40 weeks to pastor that did this took 40 weeks to pastor that did this took 40 weeks to read the book just go a chapter a week read the book just go a chapter a week read the book just go a chapter a week and read your way through it and uh the and read your way through it and uh the and read your way through it and uh the team discussion guide is there for you team discussion guide is there for you team discussion guide is there for you to go through with your leadership team to go through with your leadership team to go through with your leadership team but my favorite chapters are towards the but my favorite chapters are towards the but my favorite chapters are towards the end and um and uh I hope you'll be end and um and uh I hope you'll be end and um and uh I hope you'll be blessed by it absolutely it seems like blessed by it absolutely it seems like blessed by it absolutely it seems like the book gains momentum throughout it the book gains momentum throughout it the book gains momentum throughout it gets you know in the end those last five gets you know in the end those last five gets you know in the end those last five were execution situation vacation were execution situation vacation were execution situation vacation frustration desperation and then frustration desperation and then frustration desperation and then obviously there's the conclusion of the obviously there's the conclusion of the obviously there's the conclusion of the book and so yeah that it's fantastic book and so yeah that it's fantastic book and so yeah that it's fantastic this is the on Seminary podcast stuff this is the on Seminary podcast stuff this is the on Seminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary but you wish they taught in seminary but you wish they taught in seminary but let's jump into the lightning round let's jump into the lightning round let's jump into the lightning round that's the part of the show where we ask that's the part of the show where we ask that's the part of the show where we ask similar questions of folks uh who are on similar questions of folks uh who are on similar questions of folks uh who are on the show every week today we've got Greg the show every week today we've got Greg the show every week today we've got Greg Atkinson author Pastor coach blogger Atkinson author Pastor coach blogger Atkinson author Pastor coach blogger um great guy I'm super you really should um great guy I'm super you really should um great guy I'm super you really should get a chance to uh to follow him now I get a chance to uh to follow him now I get a chance to uh to follow him now I because this was Greg's second time on because this was Greg's second time on because this was Greg's second time on the show our pattern has been when the show our pattern has been when the show our pattern has been when people are on a second time we don't do people are on a second time we don't do people are on a second time we don't do the lightning round but Greg was like no the lightning round but Greg was like no the lightning round but Greg was like no no I want to do the lightning round so no I want to do the lightning round so no I want to do the lightning round so what is a new helpful Tool uh that what is a new helpful Tool uh that what is a new helpful Tool uh that you've been using in your ministry uh you've been using in your ministry uh you've been using in your ministry uh these days these days these days well um well um well um I am uh I am just starting to use it I am uh I am just starting to use it I am uh I am just starting to use it more and more in a Ministry context but

more and more in a Ministry context but more and more in a Ministry context but I am learning from other churches how to I am learning from other churches how to I am learning from other churches how to use it and I know this has probably been use it and I know this has probably been use it and I know this has probably been covered on your lightning round before covered on your lightning round before covered on your lightning round before but uh it's Instagram the way churches but uh it's Instagram the way churches but uh it's Instagram the way churches are using Instagram are using Instagram are using Instagram uh for promo videos highlights uh uh for promo videos highlights uh uh for promo videos highlights uh pumping up uh events and uh the weekend pumping up uh events and uh the weekend pumping up uh events and uh the weekend or a look back at something that or a look back at something that or a look back at something that happened uh with a little 14 second happened uh with a little 14 second happened uh with a little 14 second edited you know video or even pictures edited you know video or even pictures edited you know video or even pictures um uh uh my pastor Darwin gray a um uh uh my pastor Darwin gray a um uh uh my pastor Darwin gray a Transformation Church Transformation Church Transformation Church um he'll do these picture quotes where um he'll do these picture quotes where um he'll do these picture quotes where it's some it's a still shot of him it's some it's a still shot of him it's some it's a still shot of him preaching and then a powerful quote from preaching and then a powerful quote from preaching and then a powerful quote from the weekend message just to kind of the weekend message just to kind of the weekend message just to kind of remind people what the what the summary remind people what the what the summary remind people what the what the summary of of what he said was that that weekend of of what he said was that that weekend of of what he said was that that weekend and so I've just seen churches really uh and so I've just seen churches really uh and so I've just seen churches really uh you know if you had asked me a year or you know if you had asked me a year or you know if you had asked me a year or two ago I would say Facebook because I two ago I would say Facebook because I two ago I would say Facebook because I was so huge into using Facebook and I was so huge into using Facebook and I was so huge into using Facebook and I still love Facebook but I've seen a lot still love Facebook but I've seen a lot still love Facebook but I've seen a lot of creative use of Instagram absolutely of creative use of Instagram absolutely of creative use of Instagram absolutely I you know it's funny because I think I you know it's funny because I think I you know it's funny because I think Twitter I use Twitter I use Twitter I use a lot for interaction with people but if a lot for interaction with people but if a lot for interaction with people but if I got to be honest the one that I prefer I got to be honest the one that I prefer I got to be honest the one that I prefer is Instagram partly because I'm visual is Instagram partly because I'm visual is Instagram partly because I'm visual and it's and I I follow a lot less and it's and I I follow a lot less and it's and I I follow a lot less people on Instagram you're one of the people on Instagram you're one of the people on Instagram you're one of the people I follow on Instagram people I follow on Instagram people I follow on Instagram um and it's just I find it really um and it's just I find it really um and it's just I find it really intimate to get you see pictures from intimate to get you see pictures from intimate to get you see pictures from folks and stuff it's pretty cool folks and stuff it's pretty cool folks and stuff it's pretty cool um what about some books that you've um what about some books that you've um what about some books that you've been reading you you have this has been been reading you you have this has been been reading you you have this has been the book episodes you you know you've the book episodes you you know you've the book episodes you you know you've listed a lot already but are there any listed a lot already but are there any listed a lot already but are there any others that you've you've read that have others that you've you've read that have others that you've you've read that have kind of you know kind of caught your

kind of you know kind of caught your kind of you know kind of caught your attention these days attention these days attention these days yeah there's there's a quote that I say yeah there's there's a quote that I say yeah there's there's a quote that I say in the book uh in my book and that and in the book uh in my book and that and in the book uh in my book and that and it's a principle that's taught it's a principle that's taught it's a principle that's taught throughout the book and that's leaders throughout the book and that's leaders throughout the book and that's leaders or readers that's why I quote a lot of or readers that's why I quote a lot of or readers that's why I quote a lot of books because uh I believe leaders books because uh I believe leaders books because uh I believe leaders should be constantly reading and feeding should be constantly reading and feeding should be constantly reading and feeding themselves uh primarily and first and themselves uh primarily and first and themselves uh primarily and first and foremost with scripture but then also foremost with scripture but then also foremost with scripture but then also with all kinds of books uh like the book with all kinds of books uh like the book with all kinds of books uh like the book you reference uh by the guy that wrote you reference uh by the guy that wrote you reference uh by the guy that wrote Steve Jobs that's uh that kind of stuff Steve Jobs that's uh that kind of stuff Steve Jobs that's uh that kind of stuff is awesome but um two books that I've is awesome but um two books that I've is awesome but um two books that I've read most recently that really had an read most recently that really had an read most recently that really had an impact on me was the carpenter by John impact on me was the carpenter by John impact on me was the carpenter by John Gordon which I highly recommend and then Gordon which I highly recommend and then Gordon which I highly recommend and then one that I'm still working my way one that I'm still working my way one that I'm still working my way through because it's actually longer through because it's actually longer through because it's actually longer than uh strange leadership it's a it's a than uh strange leadership it's a it's a than uh strange leadership it's a it's a big book and that is the pastor by big book and that is the pastor by big book and that is the pastor by Eugene Peterson okay and uh that came Eugene Peterson okay and uh that came Eugene Peterson okay and uh that came highly recommended and so um I am highly recommended and so um I am highly recommended and so um I am digging into that but it's a slow long digging into that but it's a slow long digging into that but it's a slow long read nice well you've got your pulse on read nice well you've got your pulse on read nice well you've got your pulse on a lot of different churches and a lot of different churches and a lot of different churches and Ministries across the country really Ministries across the country really Ministries across the country really around the world what are some other around the world what are some other around the world what are some other Ministries that are inspiring you these Ministries that are inspiring you these Ministries that are inspiring you these days days days well I want to give a shout out to my well I want to give a shout out to my well I want to give a shout out to my new church where I'm I'm joining the new church where I'm I'm joining the new church where I'm I'm joining the staff of and I've been watching for a staff of and I've been watching for a staff of and I've been watching for a long time and following online and that long time and following online and that long time and following online and that is Transformation Church in South is Transformation Church in South is Transformation Church in South Carolina uh it's a suburb suburb of Carolina uh it's a suburb suburb of Carolina uh it's a suburb suburb of Charlotte North Carolina but um Pastor Charlotte North Carolina but um Pastor Charlotte North Carolina but um Pastor Darren gray and Transformation Church uh Darren gray and Transformation Church uh Darren gray and Transformation Church uh they have a vision to be they have a vision to be they have a vision to be multi-generational and multiracial and multi-generational and multiracial and multi-generational and multiracial and um when I first talked to Pastor Derwin

um when I first talked to Pastor Derwin um when I first talked to Pastor Derwin on the phone uh we were talking about on the phone uh we were talking about on the phone uh we were talking about our we both have a heart for diversity our we both have a heart for diversity our we both have a heart for diversity and for multi-ethnic Ministry I have for and for multi-ethnic Ministry I have for and for multi-ethnic Ministry I have for years my best friend is black this is years my best friend is black this is years my best friend is black this is something I've been passionate about for something I've been passionate about for something I've been passionate about for decades and uh he was saying he's decades and uh he was saying he's decades and uh he was saying he's writing a new book right now with writing a new book right now with writing a new book right now with leadership Network on on this whole leadership Network on on this whole leadership Network on on this whole thing but he said if you fast forward 10 thing but he said if you fast forward 10 thing but he said if you fast forward 10 to 20 years from now if your church does to 20 years from now if your church does to 20 years from now if your church does not look like Transformation Church it's not look like Transformation Church it's not look like Transformation Church it's going to be obsolete because of the way going to be obsolete because of the way going to be obsolete because of the way America is changing in in the America is changing in in the America is changing in in the demographics or change changing and so demographics or change changing and so demographics or change changing and so um so I just want to give a huge shout um so I just want to give a huge shout um so I just want to give a huge shout out to my new church Transformation out to my new church Transformation out to my new church Transformation Church and I encourage you to keep an Church and I encourage you to keep an Church and I encourage you to keep an eye on us from a distance as as uh we eye on us from a distance as as uh we eye on us from a distance as as uh we are seeking to uh reach uh the Carolinas are seeking to uh reach uh the Carolinas are seeking to uh reach uh the Carolinas absolutely Duran's a fantastic leader a absolutely Duran's a fantastic leader a absolutely Duran's a fantastic leader a great church that is one of those great church that is one of those great church that is one of those churches you should keep your eye on churches you should keep your eye on churches you should keep your eye on that's uh fantastic outside of durwin that's uh fantastic outside of durwin that's uh fantastic outside of durwin are there other leaders inspiring are there other leaders inspiring are there other leaders inspiring leaders that you know if you could get leaders that you know if you could get leaders that you know if you could get 15 minutes with last time you said John 15 minutes with last time you said John 15 minutes with last time you said John Maxwell uh when you were on the show is Maxwell uh when you were on the show is Maxwell uh when you were on the show is there anyone else that you would uh there anyone else that you would uh there anyone else that you would uh you'd love to get 15 minutes with you'd love to get 15 minutes with you'd love to get 15 minutes with yeah I thought about this and uh yeah I thought about this and uh yeah I thought about this and uh uh you know I I am impacted by uh you know I I am impacted by uh you know I I am impacted by um one of one of the values of our um one of one of the values of our um one of one of the values of our church and a lot of churches uh I first church and a lot of churches uh I first church and a lot of churches uh I first learned this value as a church from learned this value as a church from learned this value as a church from Chris Hodges that Chris Hodges that Chris Hodges that um at Church of the Highlands but that um at Church of the Highlands but that um at Church of the Highlands but that is generosity and so somebody that I is generosity and so somebody that I is generosity and so somebody that I would love to spend time with because would love to spend time with because would love to spend time with because he's just impressed me from a distance

he's just impressed me from a distance he's just impressed me from a distance is Bill Gates is Bill Gates is Bill Gates um the money that he gives to um the money that he gives to um the money that he gives to um to uh to Charities and organizations um to uh to Charities and organizations um to uh to Charities and organizations as a flat philanthropist is uh just as a flat philanthropist is uh just as a flat philanthropist is uh just really inspiring and uh you know there really inspiring and uh you know there really inspiring and uh you know there there are so many people that have made there are so many people that have made there are so many people that have made uh billions of dollars but uh billions of dollars but uh billions of dollars but um you know they're living uh large and um you know they're living uh large and um you know they're living uh large and they they don't really have a heart for they they don't really have a heart for they they don't really have a heart for others but um and I don't know where others but um and I don't know where others but um and I don't know where Bill Gates is spiritually but I love his Bill Gates is spiritually but I love his Bill Gates is spiritually but I love his generosity and I love that he's given to generosity and I love that he's given to generosity and I love that he's given to make a difference and so I'd just love make a difference and so I'd just love make a difference and so I'd just love to have a conversation with him oh to have a conversation with him oh to have a conversation with him oh absolutely you know it's interesting absolutely you know it's interesting absolutely you know it's interesting he's one of those those guys I I do he's one of those those guys I I do he's one of those those guys I I do think when history's all said and done think when history's all said and done think when history's all said and done as amazing as it as amazing as you know as amazing as it as amazing as you know as amazing as it as amazing as you know the technology Revolution he's been a the technology Revolution he's been a the technology Revolution he's been a part of I do think when people write part of I do think when people write part of I do think when people write when they write the final history on him when they write the final history on him when they write the final history on him his generosity is going to be in the his generosity is going to be in the his generosity is going to be in the lead and then it'll be you know similar lead and then it'll be you know similar lead and then it'll be you know similar to like the you know the to like the you know the to like the you know the you know there's been other you know there's been other you know there's been other philanthropists in the past that that's philanthropists in the past that that's philanthropists in the past that that's been their you know the carnegies you been their you know the carnegies you been their you know the carnegies you know where it's like they they talk know where it's like they they talk know where it's like they they talk about their generosity in connection about their generosity in connection about their generosity in connection with them how they made their money so with them how they made their money so with them how they made their money so yeah that's that's cool all right so yeah that's that's cool all right so yeah that's that's cool all right so what are you doing for fun these days what are you doing for fun these days what are you doing for fun these days what are you kind of doing to uh you what are you kind of doing to uh you what are you kind of doing to uh you know kick back and relax obviously know kick back and relax obviously know kick back and relax obviously probably these days you're mostly probably these days you're mostly probably these days you're mostly packing boxes because you're just about packing boxes because you're just about packing boxes because you're just about to start uh when we're recording this uh to start uh when we're recording this uh to start uh when we're recording this uh you know you're in the process of moving you know you're in the process of moving you know you're in the process of moving to transformation uh but what else do to transformation uh but what else do to transformation uh but what else do you do when you're not packing boxes or you do when you're not packing boxes or you do when you're not packing boxes or writing your next book writing your next book writing your next book well I was gonna say the main the main well I was gonna say the main the main well I was gonna say the main the main thing I've been doing this past month is

thing I've been doing this past month is thing I've been doing this past month is writing my next book which I'm excited writing my next book which I'm excited writing my next book which I'm excited about about about um but um writing is something I do a um but um writing is something I do a um but um writing is something I do a lot of it's something that I enjoy and lot of it's something that I enjoy and lot of it's something that I enjoy and it's almost uh like a hobby for me it's it's almost uh like a hobby for me it's it's almost uh like a hobby for me it's a passion a passion a passion um um um um and uh I think because I read so much um and uh I think because I read so much um and uh I think because I read so much that that that um uh I know John Maxwell talked about um uh I know John Maxwell talked about um uh I know John Maxwell talked about how much he reads every day how much he reads every day how much he reads every day uh it just naturally flows out of you to uh it just naturally flows out of you to uh it just naturally flows out of you to want to download something you just get want to download something you just get want to download something you just get inspired and want to write and so inspired and want to write and so inspired and want to write and so writing is something I'm very passionate writing is something I'm very passionate writing is something I'm very passionate about but right now I'm spending as much about but right now I'm spending as much about but right now I'm spending as much time with my family my wife and kids as time with my family my wife and kids as time with my family my wife and kids as I can and uh and yes we are in the I can and uh and yes we are in the I can and uh and yes we are in the moving stages and uh looking to settle moving stages and uh looking to settle moving stages and uh looking to settle back in my home state of South Carolina back in my home state of South Carolina back in my home state of South Carolina and uh something that's thrilling about and uh something that's thrilling about and uh something that's thrilling about that is we'll get to spin that is we'll get to spin that is we'll get to spin um more time with our extended family um more time with our extended family um more time with our extended family um my my family I grew up with and my um my my family I grew up with and my um my my family I grew up with and my wife's family and wife's family and wife's family and um we'll be back close to uh family and um we'll be back close to uh family and um we'll be back close to uh family and so family is is a huge priority for us so family is is a huge priority for us so family is is a huge priority for us right now right now right now cool well Greg I've really appreciated cool well Greg I've really appreciated cool well Greg I've really appreciated having you on the show today uh you having you on the show today uh you having you on the show today uh you think you're a great leader and you know think you're a great leader and you know think you're a great leader and you know people should pick up strange leadership people should pick up strange leadership people should pick up strange leadership 40 ways to lead an Innovative 40 ways to lead an Innovative 40 ways to lead an Innovative organization I will have links to all organization I will have links to all organization I will have links to all that in the in the show notes if people that in the in the show notes if people that in the in the show notes if people want to get in touch with you what's the want to get in touch with you what's the want to get in touch with you what's the best way for them to do that best way for them to do that best way for them to do that well my blog is Greg atkinson.com and my well my blog is Greg atkinson.com and my well my blog is Greg atkinson.com and my email is Greg Greg atkinson.com and you email is Greg Greg atkinson.com and you email is Greg Greg atkinson.com and you can reach me on Twitter at Greg Atkinson can reach me on Twitter at Greg Atkinson can reach me on Twitter at Greg Atkinson it's always my name great thanks so much

it's always my name great thanks so much it's always my name great thanks so much Greg appreciate you being on the show Greg appreciate you being on the show Greg appreciate you being on the show today thanks for having me thank you for today thanks for having me thank you for today thanks for having me thank you for tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll send you helpful training resources send you helpful training resources send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Birch or through email rich Birch or through email rich unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out unseminary.com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what unseminary.com it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary tuning in to this week's on Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary